HomeMy WebLinkAboutAppendix B2 – Public Hearing Transcript 2/22/2016 Appendix B-2
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD
PUBLIC HEARING
RE : THE HERITAGE AT CUTCHOGUE
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February 22, 2016
6 : 00 p .m.
53095 Main Road
Southold, New York
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
BEFORE :
JAMES RICH, III, Member of Board, Acting Chair
WILLIAM CREMERS, Member of Board
MARTIN SIDOR, Member of Board
BOARD MEMBERS NOT PRESENT :
DONALD WILCENSKI, Chairman
PIERCE RAFFERTY, Member of Board
Lori Anne Curtis
Court Reporter
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2 A P P E A R A N C E S :
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CERTILMAN, BALIN, ADLER & HYMAN, LLP
4 Attorneys for Applicant
100 Motor Parkway
5 Suite 156
Hauppauge, New York 11788
6
BY: JOHN M. WAGNER, ESQ.
7
8
9 ALSO PRESENT :
10 HEATHER LANZA, Planning Director, Southold Town
BRIAN CUMMINGS, Project Planner, Southold Town
11 ALYXANDRA SABATINO, Planner, Southold Town
JESSICA MICHAELIS, Clerk Typist, Southold Town
12
GINNY WATRAL, Senior Technical Advisor, VHB
13 PATRICK LENIHAN, P .E . , Engineer, VHB
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2 MR. RICH: Next hearing is
3 a continuation hearing for
4 Heritage at Cutchogue . This
5 proposed residential site plan is
6 for the development of 142 -- 124,
7 I 'm sorry, 124 attached and
8 detached dwellings classified in
9 three types : 48 "Type A" units,
10 1, 999 square feet plus or minus of
11 living area; 72 "Type B" units,
12 1, 599 square feet plus or minus of
13 living area; and 4 "Type C" units,
14 1, 900 [sic] plus or minus square
15 feet of living area .
16 In addition, there are
17 proposed the following: A
18 6, 188-square-foot community center
19 with an 1, 125-square-foot outdoor
20 swimming pool, one tennis court,
21 284 parking spaces of which 256
22 are associated with individual
23 dwelling units and 28 are
24 associated with the community
25 center, and various other
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2 associated site improvements, on a
3 vacant 46 . 17-acre parcel in the
4 Hamlet Density (HD) Zoning
5 District located at 75 Schoolhouse
6 Road, on the northwest corner of
7 Griffing Street and Schoolhouse
8 Road, approximately 1, 079 feet
9 north of the Main Road in
10 Cutchogue, Suffolk County Tax Map,
11 1000-102-1-33 . 3 .
12 This hearing was held over
13 from January. We received many
14 written comments and have read
15 them, and they are all part of our
16 record. Applicant ' s attorney will
17 speak first . The people who
18 didn ' t speak last time are invited
19 to speak next . Then, if people
20 would like to address the Board
21 for a second time, you can use
22 both podiums, and when you
23 speak -- when you step forward to
24 speak, state your name and write
25 your name .
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2 We would really appreciate
3 everybody' s cooperation tonight,
4 and we will take a break at 7 : 30
5 if this lasts that long.
6 MR. WAGNER: Good evening,
7 Mr . Rich and members of the Board.
8 My name is John Wagner . I 'm the
9 attorney for the applicant, and I
10 just wanted to make a couple of
11 quick comments at the outset with
12 regard to a couple of issues that
13 came up at the last hearing, and
14 particularly a letter that was
15 submitted from P .W. Grosser
16 Engineers .
17 I ' ll start off with that .
18 There was a letter that was
19 submitted, dated January 11th,
20 from P .W. Grosser Consulting which
21 indicates two essential points .
22 One is they take issue with the
23 calculation of sanitary flow that
24 has been stated in the DEIS . They
25 claim that the square footage of
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2 the B-1 unit is actually
3 1, 994 square feet . That statement
4 is actually based on a typo that
5 appears on one of the plans that
6 was included in the DEIS .
7 In fact, as indicated in
8 the text of the DEIS, all of the B
9 units proposed are under 1, 599
10 square feet . In fact, the B-1
11 unit, precisely, is to be
12 1, 550 square feet . So, based upon
13 that square footage for the B-1
14 units, they actually are allowed
15 150 gallons per day when you
16 calculate the sanitary flow for
17 them, not 225 gallons per day as
18 indicated in the Grosser letter .
19 I understand how Grosser
20 may have seen the plans and came
21 up with the higher number, but as
22 I say, it is a typo . The correct
23 number is set forth in the text of
24 the DEIS, and based upon the
25 correct numbers, the actual
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2 sanitary flow for all the proposed
3 124 units is 22, 500 gallons per
4 day, which is within the Suffolk
5 County Health Department
6 standards .
7 The other point that is
8 raised in the Grosser letter has
9 to do with the proposed basements
10 in the units, and the point is
11 made that there is a sliding
12 basement window that has been
13 proposed which could possibly be
14 in excess of 5 . 7 square feet in
15 area, and would therefore qualify
16 as an emergency egress window.
17 We have considered this
18 comment, and we ' re prepared to
19 represent that those windows will
20 actually be under 5 . 7 square feet .
21 There will be no possibility that
22 they could be considered an
23 emergency egress window, and
24 therefore there ' s no possibility
25 that the basement area could be
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2 future habitable space on that
3 ground. So I point those two
4 things out to you .
5 The other thing I wanted to
6 bring to your attention briefly,
7 as I 've mentioned before and we
8 also mentioned in the text of the
9 DEIS, that the applicant has been
10 in ongoing dialogue with the
11 Suffolk County Department of
12 Health Services . Even though we
13 technically comply with their
14 sanitary flow requirements, we
15 have been actively looking at
16 alternative technologies that
17 would result in a reduced nitrogen
18 loading from the proposed units
19 and that discussion has been
20 ongoing.
21 There was a very fruitful,
22 I think, meeting that took place
23 on January 26th among the Health
24 Department officials and the
25 project engineers and other
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2 officials who were present, and I
3 wanted to just put into the record
4 a letter from the project
5 engineer, VHB Engineering, dated
6 February 1st, that recounts that
7 meeting that took place, and I
8 also have a letter dated
9 February 10th from the Department
10 of Health responding to that
11 particular letter . I ' ll just hand
12 those up at this time (handing) .
13 What came out of that
14 meeting was that the -- as I may
15 have mentioned before, there are
16 several pilot testings that are
17 going on on alternative
18 technologies for sanitary
19 disposal . These project testings
20 are well underway and data has
21 been coming in, and based upon the
22 initial data that has been
23 received, it appears that, yes, in
24 fact, there ' s going to be very
25 substantial nitrogen reduction
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2 that will result from the use of
3 these alternative technology
4 systems, and we 've indicated
5 previously that we would consider
6 using those systems in our
7 project, and I can tell you
8 tonight that we will definitely
9 use those systems going forward.
10 I say that based upon the
11 input that we have from the
12 Suffolk County Department of
13 Health. They have not only
14 indicated they are getting
15 favorable results from these, but
16 they are also starting a new phase
17 of testing to evaluate long-term
18 effectiveness of the systems in
19 question, and they are also in the
20 process -- as you can see from the
21 letter, they are in the process of
22 actually drafting amendments to
23 the Suffolk County Health
24 regulations that would allow these
25 types of alternative systems to be
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2 approved not only for single
3 family use, but also for
4 multifamily use such as we ' re
5 proposing.
6 So, we ' re looking to be on
7 the vanguard of that wave, if you
8 will, and we are going to be using
9 those . I say that because the
10 Health Department has indicated
11 that even if the regulations are
12 not drafted in time, they will
13 support our application before the
14 Health Department Board of Review
15 to use these systems until those
16 regulations come forward.
17 So, based upon that, that ' s
18 what we ' re planning to do . And I
19 think that some of the speakers we
20 had at the last meeting were very
21 concerned about groundwater
22 impact . This applicant is doing
23 everything we can to address those
24 impacts given the technology
25 that ' s becoming available; not
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2 even available yet, but becoming
3 available .
4 We also learned,
5 interestingly enough, that these
6 systems that they tested right now
7 are appropriate for retrofitting
8 existing septic systems in
9 single-family residences, so I
10 would suggest that anybody who is
11 interested, they might want to
12 consider, if they live near the
13 water bodies in the Town, to
14 consider placing these systems on
15 their property in lieu of what
16 they are using now, and I think
17 that as a whole, as these systems
18 go online, you will see an overall
19 reduction of nitrogen impacts in
20 the Town of Southold.
21 Thank you .
22 MR. RICH: Thank you .
23 Now, anyone else who wishes
24 to address the Board, you may use
25 both podiums . I would ask that
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2 those who haven ' t had a chance to
3 speak be given the first chance .
4 Thank you, and you may
5 speak and then sign afterwards .
H2O
6 MR. POLASHOCK: My name is
7 Joe Polashock. I live in New
8 Suffolk. I ' ll be speaking for
9 myself and for the New Suffolk
10 Civic Association . I 'm the vice
11 president .
12 Basically, we have great
13 concern about this project, being H2O-1
14 on the downstream end of it
15 especially. I 'm glad to hear that
16 they are speaking to the septic
17 issues in a positive way, but you
18 also have paving and runoff from
19 the parking areas, et cetera, and
20 just a generally greater increased
21 flow of water, and as we know,
H2O-1
22 this is a big push-up from the Cont'd.
23 bulldozer 20, 000 years ago, and it
24 all runs downhill from the sound
25 down to the bay.
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2 So, there ' s a lot of clay
3 in the ground, and after our last
4 hurricane there was the great
5 earth, you know, high water that
6 we saw. We saw a lot of historic
7 flood areas and water courses
8 opened, and we can see where the
9 water comes from; it comes from
10 the sound side down to the bay.
11 We 've got a lot of seasonal
12 closures and a lot of problems H2O-2
13 with the water quality. I see the
14 county is there quite often taking
15 water samples, and I just hope
16 that they do get on top of this to
17 make sure that we can mitigate
18 the -- what ' s happening to our
19 shellfishing industry, the water
20 in general . Last year, with the
21 fish die-off, a lot of that was H2O-2
22 caused by introduced nitrates, et Cont'd.
23 cetera .
24 You know, I ' d just like to
25 see some positive action . You
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2 people, the county, whoever can
3 help us, and again I appreciate
4 their attempts, and if we can
5 somehow address the traffic this
6 is going to generate and the fact
7 that there ' s going to be a lot Of H2O-3
8 spillover and parking issues,
9 especially in New Suffolk along
10 the beach, which is a constant
11 ongoing problem.
12 The beach operates at
13 capacity almost every weekend all
14 summer long, and as year-round
15 residents, we learned after the
16 beginning of the season, you don ' t H2O-3
Cont'd.
17 make left turns . We don ' t need
18 more traffic . I know we can ' t
19 stop people from, you know, moving
20 ahead financially with projects
21 like this, but we have to -- we
22 hope to consider what ' s happening
23 to our area here . It ' s getting to
24 be an untenable situation, as far
25 as driving and just generally
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2 getting around during the summer
3 with the crowd, especially when we
4 fish. The season now runs
5 basically from Memorial Day right
6 through pumpkin-picking season .
7 So those are my concerns
8 and the concerns of the New
9 Suffolk Civic Association, and I
10 thank you for your time .
11 MR. RICH: Thank you .
12 MR. KRUPSKI : Evening. Al H21
13 Krupski, Cutchogue .
14 Today I ' d like to speak as
15 an elected official representing
16 Suffolk County in the First
17 District . Since I -- Suffolk
18 County has the jurisdiction for
19 wastewater treatment through the
20 Health Department, and over the
21 years I know the Town has appealed
22 to them many times to do something
23 other than the standard septic
24 system.
25 So really, thanks to the
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2 County Executive, he ' s really been
3 instrumental in pushing the Health
4 Department into making some really
5 substantial changes . There was a
6 septic tour that was done a few
7 years ago, and staff from the DPW
8 and the Health Department and
9 Planning went out and looked at
10 different septic systems
11 throughout the northeast trying to
12 find systems that were compatible
13 to our climate and to our soil .
14 And they came back with
15 four companies representing six
16 different systems, and they
17 convinced these companies to do 19
18 pilots throughout the whole
19 county, and they wanted to make
20 sure the pilots -- and they put
21 them in individual residences to
22 make sure that they ' d be available
23 for the public to come and take a
24 look at, or any other official to
25 take a look at so they could see
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2 how they are working, and they are
3 doing extensive testing on those
4 systems also, to make sure they
5 were going to meet the standards
6 that they' d hoped it would meet,
7 and that they were meeting in
8 other areas in the northeast .
9 Now, based on those pilots,
10 I 've been encouraging the Health
11 Department, Suffolk County
12 Planning and DPW to do more, to
13 keep going with those pilots,
14 because right now those systems
15 are not available for general use .
16 As John Wagner said, they have not
17 changed the Health Code yet, and
18 I 've been told it will be June or
19 July before they actually make
20 those changes . Now, the County
21 Administration is dedicated
22 towards making those changes .
23 They are also dedicated towards
24 advanced wastewater treatment .
25 So, it is very
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2 encouraging -- and I know I have a
3 ten-year history, certainly, with
4 this project, you know as a Town
5 official and then as a County
6 official . It ' s very encouraging
7 to have the applicant and the
8 Health Department really coming
9 together and be willing to do a
10 pilot here, because the systems
11 that are being proposed aren ' t
12 approved. It ' s going to be
13 considered a pilot, and the County
14 will do testing on the system to
15 make sure that it performs the way
16 it should. H21-1
17 So, that ' s -- you know,
18 we ' re moving forward here, kind of
19 into a new age . These are systems
20 that would be not single systems,
21 but rather, more units, three or
22 four units, connected to each one,
23 and that ' s what the proposal was
24 and that has support from I think
25 everyone in the County.
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2 MR. RICH: Thank you .
3 Anybody who wishes to use
4 this other side, if you haven ' t
5 spoken before .
6 MR. ROMANELLE : Good
7 evening. My name is Paul
H22
8 Romanelle . I live at 90 Bridle
9 Court in Cutchogue . I 'm -- I 've
10 never quite been completely
11 opposed to the project, but I
12 always had concerns about density, H22-1
13 traffic and runoff, as many other
14 people have .
15 At the last time I spoke,
16 my biggest concern was seeing that
17 the builder and developer take a
18 leadership position in reducing
19 nitrogen and coming up with other
H22-2
20 solutions, and it appears that
21 they are on the right track. So
22 I 'm in favor of moving forward
23 with this if all the other issues
24 can be resolved.
25 And furthermore, what I ' d
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2 like to state is that perhaps
3 since this is a pilot program,
4 that the Town and Planning Board
H22-3
5 look at this for the future on
6 all, not just new but existing,
7 cesspools and sewage systems as
8 they age .
9 I 'm in the life safety
10 business . You know, this past
11 year New York State mandated
12 carbon monoxide detectors in all
13 existing homes, and this is along
14 the same lines, helping keep
15 people safe and improving our
16 environment . So I think it ' s a
17 great approach and a good
18 leadership role for both the Town
19 to take a first on this, perhaps H22-3
20 be the first development on Long Cont'd.
21 Island that has this type of
22 system. I think it ' s a great move
23 forward.
24 Thank you .
25 MR. RICH: Sign your name,
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2 please . Thank you for you
3 comments .
4 We can move up to the
5 podiums either side and make this
6 go a little quicker .
7 MS . BERTORELTO: Good
H23
8 evening. My name is Nancy
9 Bertorelto . I live in Cutchogue
10 and have for 50 years, and I would
11 love to be able to retire to
H23-1
12 Cutchogue . My grandchildren are
13 in school; I would like my taxes
14 to go to the school .
15 I -- my husband and I would
16 like to downsize, we have a large
17 piece of property that we
18 maintain, and it would be nice to
19 have someone mow our lawn and take
20 care of us in our more mature
21 years .
22 But to be able to stay in
23 my town is very important . We 've
24 all grown up here, and I think
25 this is a plus for our town, as
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2 well as Mattituck and Peconic and
3 Southold. I really wouldn ' t
4 consider going to Greenport to
5 retire . Cutchogue is my town, and
6 I think this is a very nice,
7 extremely well thought-out H23-1
Cont'd.
8 subdivision that I would certainly
9 hope you gave consideration to .
10 Thank you .
11 MR. RICH: Thank you for
12 your comments .
13 MS . EVERS : Hi . My name is
14 Kelly Evers . I would like to H24
15 thank the Planning Board for the
16 opportunity to address my concerns
17 and objections to the Heritage
18 project .
19 I agree with the concerns
20 regarding the groundwater, the
H24-1
21 waterways, the drinking water, the
22 natural resources and protecting
23 them in our area, but what I would
24 like to address, as I feel it is H24-2
25 not getting enough attention, is
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2 the impact the traffic would have
3 in the area, and more specifically
4 on Schoolhouse Road. That is
5 where I live .
6 When I see other projects,
7 big projects like this, in this
8 scale, coming, being built in my
9 travels around Long Island, I see
10 they are built on roads that are H24-2
Cont'd.
11 better equipped to accommodate
12 them than Schoolhouse Road.
13 Highways such as Sunrise Highway,
14 Nicolls Road, Route 48, roads that
15 are built for traffic and not for
16 families .
17 Schoolhouse Road is a small
18 residential street without
19 sidewalks and a blind corner that
20 is located at the area where
21 Heritage entrance, the only
22 entrance and exit that is planned
23 for this development . A few feet
24 away is a campground, an
25 elementary school and the
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2 Mattituck-Cutchogue School
3 District ' s sports fields, not to
4 mention a small neighborhood. No
5 one seems to be addressing that;
6 the neighborhood where I live,
7 where my husband and I are raising
8 our four children, the
9 neighborhood where I walk my dogs
10 and enjoy running, the
11 neighborhood where my children
12 ride bicycles and scooters and
13 enjoy playing outdoors . The area
14 is not equipped to accommodate
15 this traffic .
16 Schoolhouse Road will
17 essentially turn into a driveway
18 for the Heritage project . If this
19 project is built, the population
20 of Cutchogue will increase 15 H24-2
Cont'd.
21 percent, and all of those cars
22 would be forced to go onto and
23 funneled into Schoolhouse Road,
24 entering and exiting Heritage, and
25 that ' s the development part . The
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2 building part will be a nightmare
3 for us, the five years that it H24-3
4 takes to build, our lives would be
5 on hold. It would be terrible .
6 How would you feel if your
7 small, narrow street that you are
8 raising your family on became a
9 throughway to funnel 15 percent of
10 the Town ' s traffic for a
11 development that does not belong?
12 This development would
13 grossly and negatively impact the
14 lives of the families that live on
15 Schoolhouse Road as well as the
16 surrounding neighborhoods . It H24-2
Cont'd.
17 would be unsafe and irresponsible
18 to allow this project to go . It
19 does not belong on Schoolhouse
20 Road. _
21 Thank you .
22 MR. RICH: Thank you for
23 your comments .
24 MS . GRANT : My name is
H25
25 Lauren Grant . I live in New
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2 Suffolk. I am concerned about the
3 size of this project . I am very
4 concerned about how our services
5 will be able to handle the people
6 living in this project, and I
7 don ' t understand why the Town H25-1
8 would even consider building
9 something of this nature in a
10 village whose roads cannot handle
11 additional traffic or in a town
12 that cannot service the needs of
13 its people .
14 It will present life
15 threatening hardships on local
16 services such as the police and
17 fire departments . They cannot
H25-2
18 manage the loads they have now.
19 Outside assistance has already
20 been called in to help the fire
21 department on weekdays when
22 emergency calls come in . Even our
23 library has reached its limit,
24 with its 2007 renovation . They do
25 not need another 256 members .
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2 Someone has to be
3 responsible . Someone has to be
4 accountable . Someone has to say
5 no . Someone has to downsize this
6 project . There do not appear to
7 be any good reasons allowing it to
H25-3
8 go through at its present size .
9 The responsible thing for the
10 Planning Board to do is to say
11 "No, it ' s time to downsize . " The
12 responsible thing for the Town to
13 do is say "No, it ' s time to
14 downsize . "
15 Thank you very much.
16 (Applause . )
17 MR. RICH: Please write
18 your name .
19 MS . SAWASTYNOWICZ : My
20 family has lived in Cutchogue,
21 just shy of 100 years --
22 MR. RICH: Can you state
23 your name, ma ' am?
24 MS . SAWASTYNOWICZ : Nancy H26
25 Sawastynowicz from Cutchogue .
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2 I was raised to be part of
3 our community, respect the natural
4 resources, not pave over with
5 high-density condos . The spot
6 zone change done 30 years ago was
7 not done in respect of the
8 environment of the North Fork; it H26-1
9 was done in Good 01 ' Boy fashion,
10 a few greedy developers -- so a
11 few greedy developers could make
12 money.
13 If we had honest
14 politicians, this spot zone would
15 not have taken place, and the
16 Stipulation of Settlement with the
17 developer would not have happened,
18 either . The Stipulation of
19 Settlement with the developer does
20 not require sewage treatment for
21 the condominium project . It ' s H26-2
22 outrageous, if this high-density
23 development is allowed to pollute
24 our North Fork. —
25 We already have drinking
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2 waters being pumped in from
3 Riverhead aquifer loaded with
4 chlorine . I drink my well water
5 and cannot tolerate chlorine . I
6 would like a Stipulation of
7 Settlement with the developer for
H26-3
8 the people that live here to have
9 our well water protected from all
10 the Heritage high-density sewage,
11 and when it pollutes our drinking
12 water and our bays, the developer
13 is responsible to clean up the
14 bays and our well water .
15 The density is too high for
16 the North Fork. I take offense
17 with this project being a gated
H26-4
18 community and the fact that they
19 want to shove the low-income
20 housing requirement somewhere
21 else .
22 This is not what the North
23 Fork is about . Do we really need
24 a large condo city in the middle
25 of a rural town? I take offense,
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2 that the project will give a tax
3 break because they are condos . We
4 need housing for the working H26-5
5 families who live here, not
6 wealthy second-homeowners, which
7 is already happening big time . I
8 hear young families all the time
9 complaining "We cannot afford to
10 live here . "
11 This project is not about
12 our community. Their plan is
13 private, gated development for the
14 Heritage condos only, but the plan
15 says the nearby park in Cutchogue
16 Village Green is being called
17 additional area of open space,
18 that, quote, "Additional areas of
H26-6
19 open space exist via a nearby park
20 which provides additional open
21 space and recreational
22 opportunities for residents . " So
23 they are going to use our parks,
24 but we can ' t go into theirs . We,
25 the people, will be kept out of
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2 the Heritage, but they are already
3 claiming our Village Green .
4 The traffic now is so bad
5 that we have rush-hour traffic
6 year-round. What will all the
H26-7
7 extra cars from the high-density
8 project do to the small village of
9 Cutchogue? Please maintain and
10 protect our quality of life .
11 Thank you very much.
12 MR. WACKER: Tom Wacker, H27
13 760 Old Pasture Road. I 'm
14 speaking in opposition to the
15 Heritage .
16 Nancy, you did a good job .
17 You stole a lot of my thunder
18 here, but I just want to reiterate
19 some of this; that, you know, the
20 traffic out here from, you know,
21 Memorial Day to Thanksgiving is H27-1
22 just a nightmare every weekend,
23 and the beaches are so
24 over-congested.
25 I lived down on West Road —1 H27-2
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2 in Cutchogue for about ten years,
3 and the cars would park every
4 weekend on both sides of the
H27-2
5 street, there ' s a blind hill; Cont'd.
6 someone is going to get killed
7 coming over that hill with kids
8 walking to the beach.
9 We ' re just overcrowding
10 ourselves too much, and I don ' t
11 know why a rural community like
12 this needs a great big project
13 like this .
14 And, of course, the
15 overriding issue really has to be
16 the wastewater . The project, you
17 know, has been carefully designed
18 to omit as much wastewater as
19 possible while remaining under the
20 limits determined by Suffolk
21 County Health Services . Now, it ' s
22 nice to hear they are now -- they
23 are finally being dragged into H27-3
24 considering wastewater treatment
25 or denitrification, but, clearly,
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2 it wasn ' t their intention in the
H27-3
3 first place, so I do ask that you Cont'd.
4 hold their feet to the fire and
5 make sure that this comes to pass .
6 Thanks very much.
7 MR. RICH: Make sure you
8 sign your name .
9 MS . CICHANOWICZ : My name
10 is Edana Cichanowicz, and I live
H28
11 at 621 Schoolhouse Road. I 'm
12 speaking for my myself and my
13 husband, William.
14 We ' re a farming family, and
15 I spoke against this project a few
16 years ago . I just wanted to
17 reiterate three concerns that I
18 think not only we have as a
19 farming family, but all of the
20 residents, long-time residents and H28-1
21 farmers in the North Fork, and
22 that is the water quality.
23 I lived in a third-world
24 country where you couldn ' t drink
25 the water, and nothing in the news
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2 or locally has made me feel
3 confident at all about the way
4 water systems are handled in this
5 country. I just heard of another
6 town where the entire board has
7 fled and the FBI has put out
8 warrants for them because sledge
9 is coming out of the taps . Well,
10 okay, a little bit of hyperbole, I
11 admit, but I ask the Board to be
12 as careful and conservative in the
13 finest meaning of the word as you
14 can be when you touch upon the
15 water supply. It ' s irreplaceable
16 and we can ' t live without it .
17 My second issue is just the
18 issue of suburbanization
19 following, what I call an eminent H2$_2
20 domain model . This is the thing
21 under the wedge, this project .
22 We ' ll be like Middle Road in
23 Riverhead. When I went to Mercy
24 High School, from the football
25 field, all there were behind the
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2 windows of Mercy High School were
3 farm fields and open space . If we
4 wanted to live in Centereach, we
5 would have moved to Centereach.
6 And we 've seen what ' s happened up
7 the Island, that we have that
8 suburbanization, that suburban
9 sprawl that is ugly and indeed
10 dangerous, because of the traffic .
11 My third concern is that
12 every time that we have the
13 opportunity as a family to come
14 and vote, to tax ourselves
15 voluntarily to preserve open
16 space, my family does that, and I
17 ask you to remember that we have
18 done this, and I think that the
H28-3
19 Town Board should be aware that
20 there will be political
21 consequences if this project goes
22 through and we ' re spited, because
23 we really do care about the rural
24 nature of the North Fork.
25 Thank you . If I sounded a
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2 little angry, I 'm just very
3 passionate, and I thank you for
4 listening to me .
5 MR. RICH: Thank you very
6 much.
7 MR. FASZCZEWSKI : My name
H29
8 is Ed Faszczewski . I live on
9 Highland Road.
10 They are saying they are
11 going to use Schoolhouse Road and
12 Griffing Avenue as a road. I find
13 that totally, totally BS . They
14 are going to be using Highland,
15 because we ' re much wider than
16 Schoolhouse .
H29-1
17 We don ' t need their traffic
18 because they can jump off Spur and
19 just make like a dirt road. I
20 don ' t want to see every cement
21 truck, every building supply truck
22 coming down my road with all the
23 children we have on that road.
24 And then about the sewer,
H29-2
25 we fought for tannics to take out
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2 of our groundwater . When I was Cont'd.
3 born, I was born in Cutchogue; my
4 family' s home is down the main
5 road right where I live . That was
6 all farmland. We ' re trying to
7 keep it like that . I don ' t know
8 need 100-some-odd units, look like
9 Avalon in Huntington .
10 Don ' t need the traffic,
11 ' cause when I get out of Highland
12 onto the Main Road, I take my life H29-3
13 in my hands, because they are
14 coming west and you can ' t believe
15 the speed they are .
16 And my biggest thing is why
17 should the people of Cutchogue
18 leave it to the Planning Board,
19 the Town Board to make the
20 decision whether they are going to
21 build on our land? It ' s our land.
22 Why don ' t we just make it a vote,
23 have all the people, the residents H29-
24 of Cutchogue, make it a vote so
25 they vote "Yes" or "No" to build
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2 this project? Why do we have to
3 leave it to a bunch of individuals
4 to say, "Okay, you build it, " H29-4
Cont'd.
5 pardon my French, "screw the
6 people of Cutchogue, " and that ' s
7 exactly what you ' re going to do to
8 us .
9 Thank you .
10 (Applause . )
11 MR. FOSTER: My name is Tom H30
12 Foster . I live at 1545 Bridle GENERAL
SUPPORT
13 Lane . I 'm an adjacent property
14 owner to this project, and I don ' t
15 mind having new neighbors . I
16 don ' t have any opposition to the
17 project . I think it ' s great what
18 they are doing with the new
19 septics and the open space and the
20 pool . I mean, if I had a pool, I
21 wouldn ' t go to the beach, so I
22 don ' t think it ' s going to be a
23 problem.
24 Thank you .
25 MR. RICH: Thank you for
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2 your comments .
3 Anyone else wish to address
4 the Board on this issue?
5 (No response . )
6 MR. RICH: Anybody who
7 spoke at the last meeting want to
8 step forward?
H1
9 MR. SCHWARTZ : So, we ' re
10 missing a couple of people here,
11 but I have some notes that I
12 thought maybe you would like to
13 have a copy of (handing) .
14 MR. RICH: Benja, don ' t
15 forget your address to the Board.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ : Or
17 three-fifths of the Board, anyway.
18 MR. RICH: That ' s beyond my
19 control .
20 MR. SCHWARTZ : Well,
21 listen, I 'm glad that you are
22 here, and I 'm glad that we have a
23 chance to speak with you tonight .
24 And I am addressing the Board, but
25 I will say that -- you know, I
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2 think we can comment on what
3 was -- what previous people said
4 about they are going to use the
5 systems to reduce nitrogen
6 loading. I 'm very grateful for
H1-8
7 that concession on the part of the
8 developer, and I hope that the
9 Board will enforce that as a
10 requirement of the project .
11 But, you know, I work in a
12 doctor ' s office, and we give out a
13 lot of medications, but medication
14 does not alone guarantee health.
15 Now, just treating the sewage,
16 that ' s like kind of reducing one
17 aspect, but there was no mention
18 of reducing the extremely
19 excessive water use that is
20 proposed for this project, H1-9
21 including the significant amount
22 of water pumped from the mainland
23 of Long Island, Riverhead, to be
24 used for irrigating the
25 landscaping. Health requires a
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2 lot of things; diet, exercise,
3 social network. We don ' t have
4 time to talk about all that today.
5 Another speaker prior to me
6 spoke about her attachment to
7 Cutchogue, and she wants you to
8 approve this project so that she
9 can stay here, but it seems pretty
10 obvious that if the project is
11 approved, at least in the form
12 it ' s proposed, nobody will be able
13 to stay here because the "here"
14 won ' t be here anymore . It will be
H1-10
15 forever changing the nature of not
16 just Cutchogue, but the North
17 Fork.
18 And I 'm sorry there are not
19 more people here from other parts
20 of the North Fork, but I have
21 communicated with people even in
22 the Village of Greenport that are
23 sympathetic and that don ' t feel
24 that we need to make this kind of
25 a permitting luxury housing to be
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2 built at eight times the density H1-11
3 that other farmers are using their
4 land.
5 The Draft Environmental
6 Impact Statement, which we ' re here
7 to comment on tonight, there ' s a
8 lot of pages in it . I think the
9 main body of it was close to 300,
10 and then there was appendixes that
11 exceeded that number; more than
12 most books .
13 They say you shouldn ' t
14 judge a book by its cover, but I
15 would just like to point out that
16 I noticed in the background of the
17 cover of the Draft Environmental
18 Impact Statement, it says,
19 "Subdivision Site Plan Approval -
20 The Heritage at Cutchogue . " H1-12
21 Now, I don ' t know what this
22 has -- I didn ' t think we were
23 doing a subdivision; I thought
24 this was a site plan application,
25 not a site plan approval, but as I
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2 will get into the rest of my
3 statement, there are many reasons
4 to believe that at least parts of
5 this application has already been
6 approved, and the fact that it
7 says right on the cover that this
8 is all about the approval, it
9 doesn ' t bode well for the question
10 of review.
11 "Prepared for Heritage at
12 Cutchogue in Medford, New York. "
13 Interesting that the Heritage of
14 Cutchogue is located in Medford,
15 New York. Speaking of Medford,
16 Riverhead, I don ' t know if you saw
17 in the Riverhead local, and I 'm
18 not sure that you are allowed to
19 apply information that you gather
20 outside this meeting to the
21 consideration of this application,
22 but just in case you aren ' t,
23 here ' s a copy of the article that
24 was published this week -- and I
25 don ' t know who to give it to . I
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2 guess you are the chairman
3 (handing) . I only have one copy,
4 but they are proposing to change
5 the zoning on --
6 MS . LANZA: Speak into the
7 microphone, please .
8 MR. SCHWARTZ : I 'm sorry.
9 They are proposing to
10 change the zoning on a 25-acre
11 site in Riverhead and put in 162
12 units . There are many, many
13 differences between that project
14 and this project, but there ' s an
15 underlying similarity, and the
16 reasons given by the community of
17 Riverhead as to why they are
18 opposing that zone change apply
19 equally to this project .
20 Just because the zone
21 change was done 30 years ago -- or
22 33 years ago, close to that
H1-13
23 anyway, doesn ' t mean it ' s written
24 in stone, and I 'm hopeful that you
25 all understand that you have the
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2 right, maybe the duty, to deny
3 this application and put it back
H1-13
4 to the drawing board, and maybe Cont'd.
5 the Town Board might reconsider
6 the zoning, even though that ' s --
7 that would violate the agreement
8 that . . .
9 Anyway, let me just try to
10 get through what I read here, but
11 I wonder if you -- you all
12 probably don ' t go online, so there
13 was a number of comments on the
14 Suffolk Times article regarding
15 the last part of the hearing that
16 I thought were very good, and you
17 might like to consider them, so I
18 would like to submit them as part
19 of the hearing record (handing) so
20 that you can consider them in
21 connection with this application .
22 Okay, I 'm going to try to
23 read what I wrote here . It ' s your
24 calling and your call, the
25 decision to approve, deny or
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2 approve with conditions . The
3 subject site plan application is
4 not up to the professional
5 planners or the lawyers nor
6 elected politicians . As
7 individuals, the three of you and
8 the other two who aren ' t here,
9 have to make a choice .
10 Collectively, you have to make a
11 decision .
12 The DEIS, on Page 261
13 states that "The visual character
14 of the site would be modified.
15 However, the site would be
16 developed with a residential
17 community contextual with the
18 character in the surrounding H1-14
19 community. " Well, with all due
20 respect, they are using
21 "community" in two different
22 senses . They are talking about a
23 residential community, which is a
24 segment of a community, but it ' s
25 the community of the Heritage
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2 residents . Our community -- I 've
3 always thought of the word
4 "community" as meaning the whole
5 community, the way it ' s used in
6 "the surrounding community. " This H1-14
Cont'd.
7 is false . The residential,
8 quote/quote "community" is
9 obviously not going to be in
10 character of the surrounding
11 community of residents, farmers,
12 fishermen, business people,
13 families, people of all income
14 levels .
15 While I 'm not aware of any
16 endemic security problems on the
17 North Fork, Page 30 of the
18 Executive Summary of the DEIS
19 states : "The proposed project H1-15
20 provides a gated entrance, with
21 manned reception booth, that would
22 restrict access to the community. "
23 Case closed. Community closed.
24 You know, I -- as a descendant --
25 I won ' t . Just, that is a major
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2 change in the social network of
3 our community, to have residential
4 communities with people, guards,
5 standing at the entrance .
6 Somewhere in there, I 'm not
7 exactly sure where, it says there
8 is not going to be any sidewalks,
9 and yet they say they are going to H1-16
10 be able to walk to town . Well,
11 even the older housing that was
12 put on New Suffolk Avenue, they
13 put sidewalks in . There ' s plenty
14 of sidewalks that go to the old --
15 where the school -- Depot Lane and
16 I think you can take a sidewalk
17 all the way to the King Kullen .
18 But this is close . It ' s not in H1-17
19 the hamlet center, it ' s not in the
20 hallowed zone around the hamlet
21 center; it ' s outside of the hamlet
22 center, but it ' s close enough to
23 walk. Why no sidewalks?
24 Page 12 of the Executive
25 Summary of the developer ' s DEIS
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2 states one of the key benefits of
3 the proposed project is "Final
4 resolution of pending litigation
5 between the Town and subject
6 property owner and applicant . "
7 The truth is, several final
8 resolutions have already occurred
9 and the Town won . I don ' t know
10 why the Town has now surrendered
11 after winning every battle that
12 has been concluded so far .
13 The so-called Stipulation
14 of Settlement appears to admit
15 liability for causes of action
16 that were dismissed by summary
17 judgment motion for a complete
18 lack of any legal merit . Even
19 assuming that everything that the
20 developer says is absolutely true, H1-18
21 not requiring any proof, the facts
22 they presented do not state a
23 legal cause of action . The trial
24 court threw out that cause of
25 action .
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2 The developer appealed to
3 the higher court, the Appellate
4 Court . The Appellate Court
5 decided for the Town . Why, then,
6 does our local newspaper continue
7 to repeat that "the current plan
8 is based on an agreement following
9 a 2009 lawsuit that claimed the
10 Town acted with malice to hinder
11 the development by changing the
12 zoning for the site"? That was in
13 an article that was written and
14 posted online today.
15 But that half of the
16 lawsuit was thrown out . The other
17 half of the lawsuit that didn ' t
18 like Laws 1, 2 and 3 of 2009 was
19 never litigated. There was never
20 any reason presented why we should
21 settle it . You know, there ' s
22 things going on down in the city
23 now. They are doing reviews of
24 all these settlements they are
25 making with these criminals who
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2 commit crimes and then sue the
3 police for enforcing the law, you
4 know, but they settle the cases .
5 I consider this settlement to be
6 without any merit .
7 I don ' t know, are you aware
8 of the Appellate Division
9 supporting the dismissal of half
10 of the lawsuit? I assume that you
11 are .
12 All right, you know, it ' s
13 not unusual that governments do
14 settle cases just to make them go
15 away maybe for an economic reason,
16 but without any legal basis . The
17 first time the Town won in court
18 was in the early ' 80s when the
19 Planning Board originally
20 determined that SEQRA would apply,
21 that there could potentially be
22 adverse environmental impacts to
23 this proposed development . The
24 Town Board had already said no,
25 there ' s no possibility that this
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2 will affect anything, the natural
3 environment, the social -- the
4 human environment, it ' s not going
5 to affect anything, and we don ' t
6 need to do an Environmental Impact
7 Statement .
8 Then the Planning Board
9 said no, we want an Environmental
10 Impact Statement before we give
11 you a site plan approval . The
12 developer refused, and sued the
13 Town and lost .
14 Now we ' re proceeding to do
15 an Environmental Impact Statement,
16 but we didn ' t start at the
17 beginning this time, we jumped in
18 with this Stipulation of
19 Settlement, this agreement,
20 which -- and we then adopted the
21 scoping that was done for a
22 previous plan . Even in this
23 developer ' s Environmental Impact
24 Statement, he says the scoping was
25 not done for this plan, but we ' re
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2 going to use it anyway. Well,
3 SEQRA shouldn ' t work that way. I
4 don ' t know of any legal precedent
5 for an agreement between the Town
6 Board, the Planning Board, the
7 property owner, the contract
8 vendee, and a court that never
9 heard any of the evidence -- or it
10 never went through a trial .
11 The Town Board should not
12 be involved in, let alone
13 controlling, the site plan review,
14 but it appears that that
15 Stipulation of Settlement is
16 controlling this process . The H1-1
Cont'd
17 agreement on which impacts and
18 alternatives to consider are the
19 agreements -- includes an
20 agreement -- agreements to limit
21 which impacts and alternatives we
22 should -- you can consider in this
23 SEQRA process . That ' s against the
24 purpose -- the whole purpose of
25 SEQRA.
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2 Okay, this site plan -- I
3 didn ' t see anything in the Draft
4 Environmental Impact Statement
5 about solar power . This is ironic
6 since Cutchogue is known as the
7 sunniest spot in New York State . H1-19
8 Lack of any mention of this fact
9 in the Draft Environmental Impact
10 Statement of this proposal to
11 increase the housing in Cutchogue
12 by 10 percent appears to be
13 complemented by ignorance on the
14 part of Southold Town Planning
15 Department .
16 I don ' t know if you know
17 why Cutchogue is the sunniest
18 place in New York State .
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Because
20 you live there .
21 MR. SCHWARTZ : Yeah, well,
22 I used to educate people when I
23 was working at Hargrave
24 Vineyard --
25 MR. RICH: Hey, wait .
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2 Please --
3 MR. SCHWARTZ : Excuse me, I
4 got distracted.
5 Solar power is not only
6 solar electric, solar orientation,
7 site plan, orientation of the
8 buildings, solar domestic hot
9 water for use in the house is more
10 efficient; and even more efficient
11 is pool heating with solar power,
12 but I don ' t see any mention of it
13 here . It doesn ' t seem to me they
14 are doing a very good job of
15 connecting with the location,
16 connecting with modern technology,
17 and, of course, solar power is
18 also excellent for lighting.
19 This plan does not include
20 any garden . This is especially
21 ironic and unfortunate because the
22 location is in between a H1-20
23 traditional suburban residential
24 subdivision and farmland. The
H1-21
25 description on Page 11 of the DEIS
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2 of the land as "undeveloped" is
3 contradicted in the same sentence
4 by the recognition that it was
5 farmed for decades . You don ' t H1-21
Cont'd.
6 just go out and farm a woodland;
7 you have to develop it as a
8 farmland before you use it as a
9 farm, but, of course, these people
10 are not farmers .
11 The reference on Page 130
12 of the DEIS to "active farmland on
13 the east" doesn ' t include any
14 mention of the type of farming
15 that ' s being done there . I heard
16 that the farm was being cultivated
H1-22
17 organically. I wonder how the
18 development proposed might affect
19 the organic cultivation of the
20 farm right next to it . In
21 contrast of the current trend
22 towards organic farming and
23 community-supported agriculture,
24 the Town of Southold doesn ' t seem
H1-23
25 to make any distinction between
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2 farming which is environmentally H1-23
Cont'd.
3 destructive and farming which is
4 environmentally beneficial .
5 There is currently a
6 movement towards community
7 gardens . The methods which have
8 been reported last month by the
9 New York Post as being implemented
10 on Staten Island in an apartment
11 rental complex that is proposed to
12 be built there probably wouldn ' t
13 work here in this case, but there
14 are plenty of good ideas in the
15 current issue of Rodale ' s Organic
16 Life Magazine, which has a
17 featured article on community
18 gardens and the many different
19 ways that you can set them up .
20 There ' s a community garden
21 that has been established at the
22 Cutchogue library. It ' s very
Hl-20
23 small . I bet they wouldn ' t be Cont'd
24 opposed -- I don ' t know, but I 'm
25 sure we could get somebody to work
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2 with the proposed condominium H1-20
Cont'd.
3 homeowners ' association and put in
4 a community garden . Now, I would
5 have brought this up before, at
6 the scoping session, but we didn ' t
7 have one . That ' s when it should
8 have been brought up, but I 'm
9 telling you now.
10 This application has been
11 pending a very long time . I came
12 across an article from 1981 in the
13 New York Times written by John
14 Rather -- brings back memories --
15 referring to many of the same
16 individuals involved in the
17 genesis of this application,
18 subject application, we ' re here
19 for tonight . The conclusion of
20 that article -- I ' ll just read the
21 last sentence -- says " 'Buying up
22 the potato land in the ' 60s turned
23 out to be not such a good
24 investment, ' Mr . Nickles said.
25 ' That is not prime residential
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2 property. There isn ' t a lot of
3 amenity in living in the middle of
4 a potato field. '" Well, there will
5 be if you approve this
6 application .
7 In 1984 a letter to the
8 editor by Danny Lyon, the great
9 American photojournalist -- he
10 used to live in New Suffolk. I
11 don ' t know if anybody remembers --
12 he wrote about Seacroft . The
13 original name for this development
14 was Seacroft . He said, "Seacroft
15 is like a multiorgan transplant
16 for the 300-year-old Village of
17 Cutchogue, except the transplant
18 is cancerous, which will not only
19 kill off Cutchogue but spread
20 across the North Fork until every
21 ancient town in Southold is as
22 dead as Nassau County. "
23 Well, I got it on the paper
24 exactly what he said, but it was
25 very close to that .
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2 An article published in New
3 York Magazine in 1984 discusses
4 this project also . It says there,
5 "Rob Pike pointed to an
6 architect ' s map that showed 36
7 open acres -- suitable, it had
8 been said, for leasing to a
9 vineyard or a farmer -- snaking
10 between the condos . ' The only
11 open space I can see in that site
12 plan, ' Pike said, ' is between the
13 statement that there is some and
14 the truth. '" The same thing is
15 true today. Can ' t you see it?
16 Please consider denying or
17 severely conditioning this
18 outrageous proposal .
19 Thank you for listening,
20 and if you are interested in any
21 of the sources that I mentioned,
22 I ' d be happy to provide copies to
23 you . Thank you .
24 (Applause . )
25 MS . MCADAM: Good evening,
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H16
2 Barbara McAdam from Crown Land
3 Lane .
4 Members of the Southold
5 Planning Board and staff, what
6 makes average citizens come out
7 time after time after time to
8 Planning Board meetings and write
9 letter after letter to local,
10 State and Federal officials
11 regarding a condominium project?
12 Anger . Anger at decades of deals
13 done late at night, special
14 interests and a general lack of
15 common sense . The populace of the
16 North Fork is not an uneducated
17 group of yahoos; rather, we are an
18 informed, highly-educated
19 community who cares deeply about
20 our natural environment, way of
21 life, and is dedicated to
22 preserving its integrity.
23 Every day we ' re able to
24 read in our newspapers, e-mails
25 and Smart phones about the
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2 tremendous threat the North Fork
3 faces in the way of nitrogen
4 pollution, availability of safe
5 drinking water and quality of life
6 on our waterways and roadways . No
7 one can claim ignorance of these
8 facts . Whether we are natives or
9 long-time residents, we know our
10 very way of life is threatened.
11 Therefore, just as resident
12 and expert alike come forward at
13 these meetings with courage and
14 facts to plead our case for
15 Cutchogue, I ask that this Board
16 demonstrate the same kind of
17 courage to forget past politics
18 and the bad choices that ensued,
19 and to do the right thing for
20 Cutchogue and Southold Town . That
21 means to impose the strictest
22 standards upon the proposed H16-15
23 project to protect the Peconic
24 estuary from further
25 contamination; require a complete
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2 and honest evaluation and redesign
3 of our roadways to protect the
4 safety of residents and visitors
5 to our town; allow current
6 neighborhoods to remain free from
7 encroachment in all respects H16-15
Cont'd.
8 associated with this project;
9 initiate a real, detailed analysis
10 of the economic impact of this
11 proposed community on our
12 resources, both natural and
13 financial .
14 Attached are several
15 current articles that virtually
16 all of us have seen recently. Our
17 County, State and Federal
18 officials are articulating the
19 threats and working to secure the
20 funding for solutions to protect
21 our home . We, the people of
22 Cutchogue, expect no less from our
23 town government .
24 Thank you .
25 (Applause . )
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2 MR. MCALLISTER: Good
H4
3 evening. My name is Kevin
4 McAllister . I 'm founder and
5 director of Defend H2O. I am
6 based out of Sag Harbor . I hope
7 that doesn ' t diminish my comments,
8 as some might suggest, being
9 outside the area . After 18 years
10 of education and advocacy for
11 clean water, I hope you will take
12 my comments to heart .
13 This is my third appearance
14 before the Board speaking to the
15 Heritage project . I ' d like to
16 first speak about overdevelopment,
17 and then, in fact, sustainable
18 development . I mean, through our
19 prism and everyone in this room,
20 and certainly as a local on the
21 East End, born and raised, we 've
22 all seen the transformations of
23 basically our areas, our
24 communities, a bit of a wave from
25 west to east, you know, that goes
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2 with population increase and the
3 development . So my point is
4 the -- you know, the farm field
5 vistas and the woodlands or the
6 wetlands, they are all feeling the
7 pressure of development, and in
8 many cases overdevelopment .
9 We have to start to really
10 be serious and transform into
11 sustainable development, and
12 obviously some of the
13 considerations in that framework
14 would be, of course, energy --
15 this is out of my bailiwick.
16 You 've heard solar power as an
17 energy source earlier . Obviously,
18 the use of the suburbanization on
19 our grounds with pesticide
20 applications, of the nutrient
21 applications, of course,
22 stormwater with respect to
23 management, treatment, groundwater
24 recharge . So these are all
25 concepts that go into sustainable
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2 development .
3 Specifically with respect
4 to the water use -- and I was a
5 bit taken aback after looking at
6 the EIS . I don ' t have a firm H4-5
7 handle on that . I say that with
8 full disclosure, but the amount of
9 irrigation, doubling wastewater,
10 clearly something is amiss there .
11 I know within the context of the
12 site plan, the use of native
13 vegetation, the extent of, again,
14 the turf areas I don ' t have at my
15 fingertips, but that is a large
16 volume of water that needs to go
17 back into the ground, of course,
18 should not be drawn or even coming
19 from Suffolk County Water
20 Authority from points west .
21 That ' s a water hog, plain and
22 simple, and we all understand
23 that .
24 And again, that does not
25 fit within the framework of
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2 sustainable development, and I
3 think going forward -- and I tried
4 to impress this upon you, you
5 know, at all levels of government,
6 whether it be our Suffolk County
7 Legislature, our Town Boards, our
8 Planning Boards, we have to really
9 start to turn the wheel here and
10 implement the strategies that, in
11 part, I 'm talking about tonight .
12 With respect to the
13 wastewater -- and you heard me
14 speak of this, of course . I did
15 represent to you that for the past
16 ten years I 've been trying to
17 bring the implication of
18 wastewater to the forefront within
19 our communities . I hope at this
20 stage in our recognition of the
21 state of our bays, that we realize
22 that they are stressed, extremely
23 stressed, and I, myself, bristle
24 when I hear the representations
25 about massive fish kills being,
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2 oh, it ' s just a natural
3 phenomenon . That ' s just not true .
4 If you get into the historical
5 records of our area, the reports
6 do not exist of massive menhaden
7 kills, bunker kills like we ' re
8 seeing today, the red tides, the
9 brown tides, the loss of wetlands .
10 These are all pressures on these
11 waters .
12 I view the Heritage and its
13 wastewater discharge, albeit into
14 groundwater, as a point source .
15 And technically speaking, that ' s
16 not accurate, it ' s not a point H4-6
17 source, but 124 units, that ' s a
18 lot of housing, a lot of flushes,
19 a lot of nitrogen in our urine
20 that is going basically in a very
21 discrete area that will make its
22 way to the bay. So this is,
23 again, a source that needs to be
24 curtailed by applying the best
25 available technologies .
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2 In looking as the EIS and
3 hearing Mr . Wagner ' s remarks
4 earlier, there is recognition that
5 the developer needs to address, or
6 has a willingness to address
7 wastewater by virtue of better
8 technologies, systems that can
9 more effectively denitrify than a
10 conventional cesspool or septic
11 system that ' s certainly in use .
12 Mr . Krupski, Legislator
13 Krupski had mentioned that the
14 County is undergoing some review.
15 I believe it was six systems .
16 That ' s good progress, and this is
17 on the residential scale . I would
18 beg to differ on the actual
19 timeline . I don ' t think the
20 approval of these systems -- or
21 perhaps it will be by summer we do
22 get some systems approved. The
23 notion that they will be mandated,
24 I find very difficult to accept,
25 knowing the process or the pace at
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2 which the Suffolk County Health
3 Department and Board of Health has
4 been moving on this . And case in
5 point, in November 2011 Suffolk
6 County approved I believe it was
7 four new systems in the
8 intermediate flow category.
9 That ' s 1, 000 gallons to
10 30, 000 gallons per day discharge
11 for advanced treatment . Some were
12 better than others, but there has
13 been no mandate to employ these
14 systems in new development .
15 And again, back to my, I
16 guess, analogy about turning the
17 wheel, we have to start turning
18 the wheel here . Those
19 intermediate systems that have
20 been approved are appropriate for
21 use in this development, and I
22 know there is a clustered array,
23 but in essence, Mr . Wagner
24 referenced that these could be
25 added on, and that may be true,
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2 but I will point out to you, if
3 you are not aware -- and I have
4 seen the Suffolk County, I ' ll call
5 it a bit of a scoping document, on
6 their evaluation of these
7 systems -- they' re seeking to
8 achieve 50 percent reduction .
9 So, we can debate the
10 concentration of nitrogen and
11 wastewater discharge from
12 conventional systems, but it is
13 about 50 to 60 milligrams per
14 liter, or parts per million, so do
15 the math on the 50 percent
16 reduction .
17 My point with respect to --
18 I would argue that that ' s a
19 deficiency, instead of raising the
20 bar here, we ' re placing the bar
21 down at our ankles . There are,
22 again, systems that achieve high
23 levels of treatment, best
24 available technologies . They have
25 been approved by Suffolk County in
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2 the intermediate flow categories,
3 there would be no difficulty in
4 having these systems approved
5 particularly based on the flow
6 rate of this development .
7 Brookhaven Town,
8 approximately a year ago, passed a
9 law for the Carmans River
10 watersheds due to this . New
11 development within the Carmans
12 watershed that meets or fits into
13 the intermediate flow category is
14 required to incorporate best
15 available technologies, advanced
16 treatment, to achieve a discharge
17 not to exceed three milligrams per
18 liter, parts per million, on a
19 rolling monthly average . I would
20 submit to you that ' s as good as it
21 gets, and I 'm paying very close
22 attention to what we can achieve .
23 This project, again, by
24 virtue of your oversight -- and I
25 will again say you have very
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2 competent staff between Heather
3 and Mark, they understand
4 sustainable development, they
5 understand these concepts . Don ' t
6 let this get bantered or slip
7 through the cracks, you know, with
8 either promises -- yeah, Suffolk
9 County said -- "we had a good
10 conversation, " I think it was, or
11 a "good meeting" that was
12 represented, and I 'm not trying to
13 be cute or dismissive, but we have
14 to assign standards to the
15 discharges here, and this is an
H4-7
16 opportunity to basically -- I
17 would suggest that you assign the
18 same standard by virtue of the
19 conditions placed on this
20 development not to exceed three
21 milligrams per liter on a rolling
22 monthly basis and to have this
23 system certified by an engineer
24 that is actually reporting on
25 this .
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2 So, it does put the burden
3 of proof on the developer as
4 opposed to ultimately allowing
5 some systems that may be approved
6 that are not nearly going to
7 achieve the level of
8 denitrification that, again, a
9 standard assigned to this
10 development would do .
11 Lastly, and I 'm reiterating
12 points here, we 've got to start
13 really implementing sustainable
14 development . And, you know, it ' s
15 one thing on a single-family home
16 on an historical road. It ' s an
17 entirely different scenario when
18 we ' re talking about a larger tract
19 of land, historic farmland where
20 124 units in some configuration,
21 some roadways, turf areas, et
22 cetera . This is, in essence, a
23 bit of a blank slate that you have
24 the opportunity -- and I would
25 submit that you have the
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2 obligation -- to really get this
3 right, and to turn that wheel,
4 because, you know, we ' re
5 turning -- again, I 've been
6 talking about this for ten years,
7 and finally it ' s gotten traction
8 within the communities . Suffolk
9 County and the communities are
10 getting it with respect to the
11 nitrogen loading, but we ' re
12 slow-go on employing the
13 technologies that are going to
14 start to take this in a different
15 path, and make no bones about the
16 notion that it will take decades
17 to ultimately transition into
18 advanced systems on the built
19 infrastructure, our existing
20 neighborhoods and homes, on a
21 smaller scale, but when we ' re
22 building larger, with a blank
23 canvas, then let ' s get it right .
24 So thank you for your
25 consideration to my remarks this
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2 evening.
3 MR. RICH: Thank you very
4 much.
5 Anybody else wish to
6 address the Planning Board?
7 MR. MCALLISTER: May I
8 leave you with the Brookhaven law
9 (handing) .
10 MR. RICH: Thank you very
11 much.
12 MR. JORDAN: Hi . I 'm
13 Richard Jordan . I live in H31
14 Cutchogue, and I spoke at the
15 prior meeting. I 'm encouraged by
16 the work that Legislator Krupski
17 has been able to achieve in the
18 last few years and encouraged by
19 the attorney' s representation
20 today.
21 Would I understand it that
22 he is going to -- that that will
23 be included -- that they are H31-1
24 effectively amending the DEIS,
25 that they will go with the
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2 state-of-the-art alternative
3 system that will be approved by
H31-1
4 the County Health? I don ' t know, Cont'd.
5 because the documents were
6 submitted to the Board.
7 MR. RICH: Well, he ' s
8 certainly indicated that in public
9 hearing, so . . .
10 MR. JORDAN: So that willH31-1
11 be in the EIS?
Cont'd.
12 MR. RICH: Every comment
13 made at this hearing will be
14 considered. Obviously, from the
15 standpoint we can ' t give everybody
16 everything they asked for .
17 MR. JORDAN: No, but I
18 meant as the attorney for the
19 developer, I understood his
20 comments to mean that he was
21 amending the previously-submitted
22 EIS to include that there would be
23 in their suggested DEIS .
24 MR. RICH: We ' re going to
25 consider his comments very
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2 carefully.
3 MR. JORDAN: And also,
4 would that include existing
5 systems that deal with H31-1
Cont'd.
6 pharmaceuticals, aside from
7 denitrification? I 'm unclear
8 about that .
9 And concerning traffic, I
10 live near the end of Pequash, and
11 30 years ago my kids, who are all
12 grown, but we would drive from
13 there to through New Suffolk. Now
14 the traffic is -- in the summer, H31-2
15 it ' s scary. It ' s scary to see the
16 little kids riding their bikes and
17 people coming down, and as
18 Mr . Wacker spoke, some kid is
19 going to get hit .
20 And those people who -- I
21 welcome new people to come into
22 Cutchogue and enjoy it, but I
23 would like it to be enjoyable, and
24 they are either going to come down
25 to New Suffolk or they are going
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2 to go to the Town beach on the
3 sound, or they will come down to
4 Pequash. The traffic cannot
5 handle them. I think traffic
6 issue is a significant issue . We H31-2
Cont'd.
7 had a terrible tragedy on the
8 North Road earlier this year . I
9 would hate to see any repeats of
10 that, particularly for very young
11 people .
12 And the last point that I
13 think should be addressed in the
14 EIS is the alternative in terms of
15 reducing the number of development
16 units . As I recollect it, the
17 developer submitted saying it
18 would not be feasible to be
H31-3
19 reduced, and that they kind of
20 summarily rejected the concept of
21 selling a portion of the property,
22 saying that the Town had never
23 made a suggestion as to what the
24 price would be .
25 I think the developer and
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2 owner should pose some
3 alternatives that -- it ' s
4 applaudable to see that at least
5 Newsday reported that Legislator
6 Krupski is seeking the County to
7 use funds to protect the Native
8 American burial site in Jamesport,
9 and I think that ' s very
10 applaudable . I would like to see
11 a similar concept maybe applied
12 here, but in terms of the DEIS in
13 terms of mitigating the potential
14 impact . I think summarily having
15 the developer say it ' s unfeasible
16 without there being some
17 quantification or analysis of it,
18 I think, is faulty.
19 Thank you .
20 MR. RICH: Thank you for
21 your comments .
22 Linda?
23 MS . GOLDSMITH: My name is H32
24 Linda Goldsmith. I live in East
25 Marion . I 'm speaking tonight
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2 because I know if a project like
3 this is approved the way it is H32-1
4 now, that every hamlet is going to
5 face the same thing . As a matter
6 of fact, East Marion is facing
7 a -- what I feel is an absurd
8 project that ' s going to be coming
9 down .
10 What I want to talk about,
11 actually, basically was a great
12 deal about housing. A dear friend
13 of mine, who has since moved to
14 South Carolina, said to me, "I
15 can ' t wait to sell my house . I
16 want to move into some place like
17 this . My house is too big, it ' s
18 too expensive, and I need a
19 smaller place . "
20 Well, that ' s wonderful, so
21 perhaps we ' ll have 124 families
22 sell their larger, more expensive H32-2
23 houses and move into the
24 condominiums, and, you know, I
25 understand. I understand when you
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2 get older -- I don ' t like having
3 an upstairs at my age, and it
4 would be -- that ' s what people are
5 looking for . But who ' s going to
6 buy those 124 houses they are
7 going to sell? It is not going to
8 be your young families in Southold
9 Town . They are not going to be
H32-2
10 buying six, seven and 800, 000 Cont'd.
11 dollar houses . So what you are
12 going to effectively do is import
13 124 families from elsewhere .
14 Okay, I don ' t mind new
15 people, but think about the 240
16 cars, and look at your parking in
17 Cutchogue . It ' s a lovely little
18 hamlet . You go to the pharmacy,
H32-3
19 go to the deli, go to the library.
20 Sure, and so at any one time, you
21 might have 30 cars downtown .
22 Well, there really isn ' t much
23 space for them. There is not much
24 parking down there .
25 And I 'm also a selfish
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2 woman; I have a grandson that goes
3 to Our Lady of Mercy School, and I
4 know that the construction debris
5 and the noise and the traffic are
6 going to impact that school . It H32-4
7 will . There ' s just no way it
8 can ' t . It ' s right there, right in
9 back of it, and there ' s no way
10 that you can, you know, shelter
11 them from that noise .
12 But my main issue is this
13 isn ' t housing that serves a need
14 in Southold Town, and I guess
15 that ' s what bothers me, you know?
H32-5
16 It doesn ' t serve a need. It
17 really is too big, and honestly,
18 maybe I ' d feel differently if it
19 was 124 affordable condo units for
20 affordable rentals for younger
21 families, but I don ' t really -- I
22 think the project is really too
23 big. You cannot bear the traffic,
24 and I am at least heartened by --
25 taking about the septic systems, I
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2 was very fortunate that I actually
3 got to watch the first one put in
4 in Southold Town on Elijah ' s Lane .
5 Amazing, amazing systems; one day.
6 Very neat, clean, efficient,
7 effective, very -- you know, next
8 time my cesspool fails, that ' s
9 going to be my next way to go as
10 soon as they are approved.
11 But please think about the
12 fact that these condominiums are
13 basically going to serve as 124
14 new units for people who live
15 elsewhere; if not the condos, then
16 the people who sell their houses
17 or want to sell their houses to
18 move into them. I mean, 240 new
19 people in Southold Town? Not a
20 lot of people; it ' s one percent of
21 the population, but it ' s going to
22 drive out the young families, it ' s
23 going to help drive them out even
24 more .
25 Thank you for your time .
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2 MR. RICH: Anyone else?
3 MR. SCHWARTZ : Just one
4 quick point that nobody has
5 mentioned, and I think should
6 be --
7 MR. RICH: Benja, I know
8 your name, but just please state
9 it for the record.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ : Benja H1
11 Schwartz .
12 Reviewing the DEIS, most of
13 the traffic analysis there is
14 based on computer models . They
15 spent eight hours examining the
16 existing traffic, and that was
17 done a couple years ago . There
18 was also a very interesting
19 section there where they had H1-24
20 analyses of every single traffic
21 accident during a three-year
22 period in the surrounding area,
23 but that three-year period was
24 also in the past, and did not
25 include the fatal limousine crash
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2 that happened last year . They
3 said there was only one fatality;
4 they were talking about that man
5 that was walking in the crosswalk.
6 I don ' t know how they missed the
7 barber that was hit in the middle H1-24
Cont'd.
8 of Town, but the limo is not
9 there, and I just think they need
10 to come more than one weekend in
11 October and more than eight hours
12 if they really want to tell us
13 there ' s not going to be any
14 traffic impacts .
15 Thank you .
16 (Applause . )
17 MR. RICH: Thank you .
18 Anyone else?
19 (No response . )
20 MR. RICH: Anyone wish to
21 address the Board on this issue?
22 (No response . )
23 MR. RICH: I ' d like to keep
24 the hearing open for written
25 comments for another -- month?
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2 MS . LANZA: Two weeks .
3 MR. CREMERS : Two weeks, to
4 March 7th. Close the hearing.
5 MR. RICH: Motion made to
6 close the hearing.
7 MR. SIDOR: Second.
8 MR. RICH: Motion seconded.
9 All in favor?
10 (Whereupon, all respond in
11 the affirmative . )
12 MR. RICH: Any discussion?
13 (No response . )
14 MR. RICH: Opposed?
15 (No response . )
16 MR. RICH: The hearing is
17 closed, but remains open for
18 written comments . Thank you for
19 your time and information .
20 (Time noted: 7 : 23 p .m. )
21
22
23
24
25
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2 CERTIFICATION
3
4 I, LORI ANNE CURTIS, a Notary Public
5 in and for the State of New York, do hereby
6 certify:
7 THAT the foregoing is a true and
8 accurate transcript of my stenographic notes .
9 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
10 set my hand this 1st day of March, 2016 .
11
12
13
LORI ANNE CURTIS
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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A addressed 69:13
aback 80:13 alike
67:5 addressing 63:12
able 25:5 40:24 allow
22:11,22 27:5 42:12 49:10 adjacent 10:24 26:18 64:5
62:23 77:17 39:13 allowed
absolutely ADLER 6:14 29:23 44:18
50:20 2:3 allowing
absurd Administration 28:7 75:4
82:7 18:21 alternative
accept admit 8:16 9:17 10:3,25 78:2 80:14
70:24 35:11 50:14 alternatives
access adopted 54:18,21 81:3
48:22 53:20 ALYXANDRA
accident advanced 2:11
86:21 18:24 71:11 73:15 76:18 amazing
accommodate adverse 85:5,5
24:1125:14 52:22 amending
accountable Advisor 77:24 78:21
28:4 2:12 amendments
accurate advocacy 10:22
69:16 89:8 65:10 amenity
achieve affect 60:3
72:8,22 73:16,22 75:7 77:17 53:2,5 57:18 American
acres affirmative 60:9 81:8
61:7 88:11 amiss
acted afford 67:10
51:10 31:9 amount
Acting affordable 41:21 67:8
1:16 84:19,20 analogy
action age 71:16
14:25 50:15,23,25 19:19 21:8 83:3 analyses
active ago 86:20
57:12 13:23 17:7 29:6 34:16 45:21 analysis
actively 45:22 73:8 79:11 86:17 64:9 81:17 86:13
8:15 agree ancient
actual 23:19 60:21
6:25 70:18 agreement Anger
added 46:7 51:8 53:19 54:5,17,20 62:12,12
71:25 agreements angry
addition 54:19,20 37:2
3:16 agriculture ankles
additional 57:23 72:21
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