HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-05/18/2016 aicx r�
� Town Hall Annex
John M.Bredemeyer III,President ����® � ®�® ; 54375 Route 25
Michael J.Domino,Vice-President �� `
t_ 3 • P.O.Box 1179
Glenn Goldsmith5.1pAN. Southold,New York 11971
A.Nicholas Krupskit _ 4:1° e Telephone(631) 765-1892
Charles J.Sanders L 4C 9� �1i Fax(631) 765-6641
REC IV'"D
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD {;
JUN 3 0 2016
Minutes / ,, .1�
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Wednesday, May 18, 2016 - So thold Town Coe I
5:30 PM
Present Were: John Bredemeyer, President
Michael Domino, Vice-President
Charles Sanders, Trustee
Glenn Goldsmith, Trustee
A. Nicholas Krupski, Trustee
Elizabeth-Cantrell, Senior Clerk Typist
Assistant Town Attorney Stephen Kiely
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 8:00 AM
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 5:30 PM
WORKSESSIONS: Monday, June 20, 2016 at 4:30 PM at Downs Farm,-and on
Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 5:00 PM at the Main Meeting Hall
MINUTES:, Approve Minutes of April 20, 2016.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Good evening, welcome to the May, 2016,
regular monthly meeting of the Town Trustees. In order to
effectuate a fairly concise meeting, we will group together some
items under Administrative Permits or Permit Transfers or
Moorings, which have been reviewed administratively or inspected
by the Trustees and they are not subject to public hearing. So
sometimes we'll group them together for the sake of efficiency.
So also to let you know, the Trustees have a limit on
written material submitted to the Board. They have to be in with
sufficient time so that the Board has an opportunity to review
materials on field inspection and come in no later than the work session
which precedes this meeting, last Monday.
At this time, I'll take a motion for the next field
inspection for June 15th, 2016, at 8:00 AM. Motion?
TRUSTEE.DOMINO: So moved.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
Board of Trustees 2 May 18, 2016
(ALL AYES).
Motion to hold the next Trustee meeting June 22nd at 5:30 PM. Is
there a second?
TRUSTEE DOMINO: So moved.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
And to hold work sessions on,Monday, June 20th, at 4:30 PM,
at Downs Farms; and on Wednesday, June 22nd, at 5:00 PM at the
main meeting hall.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion to approve the Minutes of the April
20th, 2016 meeting?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: So moved.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Is there a second?
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: At this time we are going to take an
off-agenda resolution. Goldsmith's Inlet in Peconic has been
repeatedly closed off, the inlet there, too, and the Trustees
have been monitoring over the last four months, and I started to
contemplate a resolution this morning having, the Board having
visited the site last Wednesday, and I received both the phone
call and a text that with the high, very high winds we had the
two days prior, that Goldsmith's Inlet has totally sealed off,
and because it's a freshwater-dominated system but does have to
interface with the waters of Long Island Sound, it's in a very
precarious position to have the marine life in there damaged
severely.
Accordingly I want to enter this resolution on the record
for consideration of the Board and forwarding to both Town and
County officials.
Whereas the uplands surrounding Goldsmith's Inlet in
Peconic of Southold Town, includes public park lands of Suffolk
County and Southold Town; and,
Whereas, the underwater-lands of Goldsmith's Inlet are
Public Trust Lands of the Southold Town Trustees managed for the
benefit of the people of Southold Town; and,
Whereas, these lands and waters are accessible to all
County and Town residents for their enjoyment and harvest of
beneficial marine organisms in season; and,
Whereas, at Goldsmith's Inlet watershed contributes
significant fresh waters to this estuarine system which have
historically ebbed, flowed and mingled with the waters of the
Long Island Sound; and,
Whereas, the inlet has become totally obstructed of late,
causing the waters to cease their natural flow and to flood
Board of Trustees 3 May 18, 2016
valuable wetlands; and,
Whereas the waters flooding onto the adjacent lands of
residences on Mill Lane, Peconic, are causing sub-surface sewage
disposal systems to fail; and,
Whereas, bacteriological DNA sampling by Southold Town and
the Cornell Cooperative Extension have found some evidence that
human coliform bacteria are found in the waters of Goldsmith's
Inlet; and,
Whereas the flooding of this creek with fresh waters in the
absence of the salt waters of Long Island Sound may cause the
extirpation of the beneficial marine flora and fauna found in
this creek for hundreds of years; and;
Whereas, the potential loss of these beneficial organisms
and the portent of continued malfunctioning sanitary systems
imputes a pending public health and environmental crisis in the
making; now, therefore be it
Resolved, that the Southold Town Trustees call upon the
Town Board of Southold, Suffolk County, and all relevant
departments thereof to perform such immediate assessments and
emergency corrective action, and long-range planning and
permanent solutions to protect the natural flow of waters to
this inlet and creek.
I would move that as a resolution with distribution to go
to the Suffolk County Legislature, Suffolk County Executive,
Suffolk County Leg. Albert Krupski, and to the County
Department of Public Works Waterways, Suffolk County
Department of Health, Southold Town Board and the Suffolk Times.
That's my motion.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion made and second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
At this time we'll return to the regular monthly agenda.
Before I get into that, I just wanted to inform you, a number of
items that may have been not be properly completed for review at
the public hearing or which were otherwise withdrawn by
applicants can be found at the end of the evening agenda, mostly
on page ten, numbers 18, 19 and 20, which read as follows:
Number 18, J.M.O. Environmental Consulting on behalf of Z&S CONTRACTING
INC., do THOMAS SHILLO requests a Wetland Permit to demolish existing
single-family dwelling and detached garage; construct new 2,764sq.ft. single-family
dwelling with attached garage and 602sq.ft. covered porch; abandon existing and install
a new associated sanitary system landward of dwelling; construct a 417sq.ft. open
terrace with stone on grade; construct a 204sq.ft. plunge pool with retaining wall on
seaward side; and install a rain garden. Located: The Gloaming, Fishers Island.
SCTM# 1000-10-10-2.
Number 19, Thomas Wolpert, P.E. on behalf of MILDRED M. PASCUCCI
requests a Wetland Permit for the as-built 10'wide path through the existing vegetation
along the easterly side of the property to install a test well; construct a proposed
two-story, single family dwelling with the first floor area to include 518sq.ft. of living
space, a 1,445sq.ft. Deck, a 336sq.ft. Pool, a 70sq.ft. ramp, and 148sq.ft. of stairway;
Board of Trustees 4 May 18, 2016
second floor to include 1,741 sq.ft. of living space, a 345sq.ft. Deck, 112sq.ft. of
stairway, and a 625sq.ft. landing; install a sanitary system in an approximately 625sq.ft.
area; construct a 2.5' high by 88' long retaining wall; install a 1,030sq.ft. pervious
driveway; add approximately 630 cubic yards of clean fill onto property; and clear
vegetation within a 9,557sq.ft. area on the property. Located: 305 Narrow River Road,
Orient. SCTM# 1000-26-3-11
Number 20, Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of BRUCE AND ALLAN
GOLDSMITH request a Wetland Permit to remove 75' of existing bulkhead and 32' long
return; construct 75' of new bulkhead and 32'west return in-place, in-kind using vinyl
sheathing; and to subsequently maintain the 10'wide non-turf buffer along the landward
edge of the bulkhead. Located: 2550 Hobart Road, Southold. SCTM# 1000-64-3-8
have been postponed.
But I would like to draw your attention to also two other items that were postponed
late this afternoon. One is item number two on page six, Costello Marine Contracting
Corp. on behalf of NH SAG, LLC, do MICHAEL SCIARRINO requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a 4'x40' ramp to a 4'x100' fixed dock with a 4'x40'fixed "L" section at
offshore end; construct a 4'x5' platform with a 4'x16' ramp onto a 4'x30' lower platform;
install water and electric; and install three 2-pile mooring dolphins. Located: 2100
Paradise Point Road, Southold. SCTM# 1000-81-3-19.7, has been postponed.
Item nine on page eight, Michael Kimack on behalf of MICHAEL J.
CONFUSIONE requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4'x50' treated wood fixed dock
using thru-flow composite decking and 6" diameter dock piles installed 5' on-center;
install a 3'x20' metal hinged ramp; install a 6'x20' treated wood floating dock using
thru-flow composite decking with two (2) 8"-12" diameter float piles; overall length of
'proposed dock, ramp and float to be 90 feet; and to remove existing wood pilings within
side yard property line on existing dock structure. Located: 1605 Westview Drive,
Mattituck. SCTM# 1000-107-7-9, has been postponed.
As well as numbers 16 and 17 on page nine, Patricia C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of
JACK CIPRIANO requests a Wetland Permit to construct an approximately 2,800sq.ft.
two-story, single-family dwelling with covered porch on landward side; a 210sq.ft. deck
with steps to grade attached to seaward side of dwelling; install 50sq.ft. of front and rear
steps; install a sanitary system on the landward side of dwelling; install a public water
line; and install gutters to leaders to drywells to contain storm-water runoff. Located:
8150 Main Bayview Road, Southold. SCTM# 1000-87-5-23.6
And number 17, En-Consultants on behalf of the ESTATE OF HARRIET E.
GAMPER requests a Wetland Permit to construct approximately 184 linear feet of vinyl
bulkhead in-place of existing timber bulkhead and backfill with approximately 25 cubic
yards of clean sand fill to be trucked in from an approved upland source; remove
existing 5'x22.5' wood ramp and install a 3'x26' aluminum ramp to existing 10'x30' fixed
concrete dock with wood decking; and construct a new±16' section of vinyl bulkhead
within 14" of existing concrete wall/boathouse foundation wall. Located: 2895 Wells
Avenue, Southold. SCTM# 1000-70-4-13 have been postponed.
So if you were here to participate in hearing those matters, they are being
postponed.
(UNIDENTIFIED VOICE): If it says "postponed" on the sheet that means it's not being
heard this evening?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: That's correct, it will not be heard this evening.
(UNIDENTIFIED VOICE): Cipriano is postponed. When do we find
out about this? We called several times. When is this noticed?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Just for a point of information, ordinarily,
the Board has to be responsive to reasonable requests of all
Board of Trustees 5 May 18, 2016
individuals to postpone. We strongly discourage it and it's a
little unusual to have them come of late. All I can tell you is
we try to honor those requests. If you wish to send comment to
the Board in writing about your concerns, I know it's very
off-putting when you have no knowledge of this, and it's very
difficult for us to try to give advance word to people that they
would know that.
(UNIDENTIFIED VOICE): So when can we call the Board of
Trustees; the day of, at a certain time? I mean a lot of people
traveled to be here today so I was just wondering, you know, we
tried calling and called about it but no one told us it was
postponed.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: That was rather late.
MS. CANTRELL: I don't know when you called but myself and my
coworker, the clerks, were only notified yesterday morning that
this was to be tabled. So that's when we knew, yesterday morning.
MR. KIELY: So to be safe you should probably call the day of.
(UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER): So this was a last-minute postponement?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes.
(UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER): Could you share with us what the reasons
were for the postponement?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Sometimes it's not stated at all. I mean if
there was a reason that the clerk--sorry. Okay. Cipriano was
not properly staked for the Board to perform an inspection, so
that there was a causative reason for that. The Board has to
see projects properly staked.
(UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER): Okay, thank you, very much.
I. MONTHLY REPORT:
The Trustees monthly report for April 2016. A check for
$7,388.25 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the
General Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for
review.
III. STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEWS:
RESOLVED that the Board of Trustees of the Town of Southold hereby finds that the
following applications more fully described in Section VII Public Hearings Section of the
Trustee agenda dated Wednesday, May 18, 2016, are classified as Type II Actions
pursuant to SEQRA Rules and Regulations, and are not subject to further review under
SEQRA:
Deborah Moss SCTM# 1000-13-2-7.10
GFH Homes LLC, do Glenn Heidtmann, Jr. SCTM# 1000-70-4-28
Jack Cipriano SCTM# 1000-87-5-23.6
Henry& Melissa Silverman SCTM# 1000-123-4-12
Board of Trustees • 6 May 18, 2016
Farley Fine Arts, LLC SCTM# 1000-86-7-7.2
Lista M. Cannon SCTM# 1000-66-3-2
Elizabeth Dwyer SCTM# 1000-128-4-26
470 Lloyds Lane, LLC, do Andrew Drazic SCTM# 1000-99-3-4.3
David & Lindsay Levin SCTM# 1000-14-2-1.9
E.G. Stein Family Trust, do David Edelstein & Libby Goldstein SCTM#86-2-12.6
Dwyer/Barth Revocable Family Trust, do Laurel Phelan SCTM# 1000-53-4-21
Slatfield Investments, LLC, do Leslie Butterfield SCTM# 1000-136-1-45
Joseph Schafer SCTM#90-2-3
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The above-listed items in Item III under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act listed in your agenda for inclusion, I would move that
all these are, that are more fully described in the section on public hearings, are Type II
actions and are not further subject to the requirements of the State Environmental
Quality Review Act. That's my motion.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
IV. RESOLUTIONS -ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: As I indicated before, to promote some
efficiency in the meeting and allow for more time in the public
hearing section, certain items can be grouped together because
they have been reviewed administratively after a review of the
files and field inspections. Accordingly under Item IV for -
resolutions for administrative permits, I would move to approve
number one, number two, number four, number six and number seven
as a group. They are listed as follows:
Number one, TOM & SANDY PSARROS request an Administrative
Permit for the existing 18'x24' on-grade patio against the
seaward side of dwelling; construct an 18'x24'flat roof over
patio for a 2nd story and construct a ±10'x15.2' and a
±10'x20.6' open trellises running along both sides of the patio.
Located: 575 Watersedge Way, Southold. SCTM# 1000-88-5-61.2
Number two, Nancy Dwyer Design Consulting, Inc. on behalf of MICHAEL
DILEO requests an Administrative Permit for the existing irregularly shaped ±280sq.ft.
on-grade brick patio, and to expand it an additional ±320sq.ft. for an overall ±600sq.ft.
(22.5'x34.5' outside dimensions) irregularly shaped on-grade brick patio; and install
a 14" high stone wall to act as planting bed edging.
Located: 100 Knoll Circle, East Marion. SCTM# 1000-37-5-20
Number four, East End Construction Services, Inc. on behalf of JOHN WEBER
requests an Administrative Permit to conduct construction activity within 100'from the
landward edge of wetlands for the construction of a +/-41.3'x50'two-story, single family
dwelling with attached 15'x50' seaward deck; install a sanitary system landward of
dwelling; install a driveway; install a system of gutters, leaders and drywells to dwelling ,
to contain storm-water runoff in accordance with Chapter 236 of the Town Code; and
install silt fencing prior to and during construction. Located: 150 Budds Pond Road,
Southold. SCTM# 1000-56-5-20
Number six, JOSEPH MANNO &CATHERINE MANNO request an
Administrative Permit to conduct construction activity within 100'from the landward edge
Board of Trustees 7 May 18, 2016
of wetlands for the construction of a single-family, two-story dwelling with porch on
landward side; install a sanitary system landward of trustee jurisdiction; construct a
24'x26' detached garage with a breezeway leading from garage to dwelling;
construct an in-ground swimming pool; install gutters to leaders to drywells on
the dwelling and garage to contain roof runoff; and install a gravel driveway.
Located: 325 Wells Road, Peconic. SCTM# 1000-75-6-3.2
And number seven, East End Spa on behalf of DAVID HERMER requests an
Administrative Permit to install a 7.5'x7.5' hot tub at ground level adjacent to existing
deck. Located: 3675 Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue. SCTM# 1000-111-9-4.2
I will be discussing number five, there were comments in the record.
I move that. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Item three, LORRAINE DUNHUBER requests an
Administrative Permit for the as-built 8'x8' shed and two (2)
6'x6' fencing panels installed between the shed and bulkhead.
Located: 875 Fleetwood Road, Cutchogue SCTM# 1000-137-4-22
Based on the field inspection of Trustee Krupski, it was
advisable that we would stipulate that there would be a ten-foot
non-turf buffer for this project. Accordingly, I would move
that, that we stipulate that the project be approved subject to
the inclusion of a ten-foot non-turf buffer, with the acceptance
of a permit we can include on the plans, simply on the plan.
That's my motion.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Item number five, PINO & IRENA LICUL request
an Administrative Permit to remove rotted platform boards; rake
out sand and reposition existing blue stone stepping stones to
be a walkway; remove the Rosa Rugosa and re-vegetate with Cape
American beach grass leaving 5' surrounding the deck as sand
which is to be raked and left clean. Located: 725 North Sea
Drive, Southold. SCTM# 1000-54-4-9
This is a very straightforward application to improve and
beautify a beachfront house, but since there are no large
amounts of invasive vegetation such as phragmites, it's not
subject to an allowance for a ten-year maintenance. It's simply
an activity. Once it's maintained as yard it is acceptable to
simply maintain it in perpetuity. They don't need a specific
term to have ten-year maintenance. According, I would move to
approve this application as submitted, noting that the ten-year
maintenance is not necessary.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Item eight, PETER & SHEILA IZZO request an
Board of Trustees 8 May 18, 2016
Administrative Permit to take soil from the landward side of the
vacant property, and place it and grade out a slope in two areas
on the seaward side of the two properties in order to lessen the
angle of existing slope. Located: 805 Meadow Beach Lane,
Cutchogue. SCTM# 1000-111-10-18.1 & 18.2
This has, this particular project was determined by the
LWRP coordinator, that it was inconsistent with respect to the
Town's Local Waterfront Revitalization Program because of
clearing, a proposed action to clear and fill a bluff or bank
and eliminate existing natural vegetation. The Trustees in fact found upon
inspection that it was not an attempt to fill or damage the natural resource
feature but in fact they purport to remove invasive vegetation, which is black
locust. And they are merely levelling off the area so they can have a planting of
native vegetation.
Accordingly, I would think it's appropriate to move this
application, to approve as submitted, with the stipulation,
though, that the area being revegetated on the bluff and bank
receive only native vegetation and no turf and thereby removing
the invasive vegetation and putting a natural planting there,
addressing the concerns of the Local Waterfront Revitalization
Program coordinator. That's my motion to approve with stipulations.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
V. APPLICATIONS FOR EXTENSIONS/TRANSFERS/ADMINISTRATIVE
AMENDMENTS:
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: At this time I absent myself from the meeting. Mike Domino
will chair because I have a personal matter I cannot vote on. I'll leave the room for a
minute. If you could just let the record read I left the room while you do a vote on a
permit that I have involvement with.
(Trustee Bredemeyer exits the hearing hall).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Under Item V, applications for extensions,
transfers and administrative amendments, number one, JOHN M.
BREDEMEYER, JR. &JEANNE R. BREDEMEYER FAMILY TRUST, do JOHN
BREDEMEYER requests a One-Year Extension to Administrative Permit#8438A,
as issued on June 18, 2014, and Amended on September 17, 2014.
Located: 2660 Village Lane, Orient. SCTM# 1000-26-1-18
And based upon the field inspection which was done on May
11th, and conducted by myself, Glenn Goldsmith and Nick Krupski,
I make a motion to approve this as submitted.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Why don't we take a five-minute break. I'll make
a motion to take a five-minute break.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
Board of Trustees 9 May 18, 2016
II
(After a brief recess, these proceedings continue as follows).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, we'll go back on the record.
Under Item V, again, some items that the Board has already
reviewed administratively, items number two, number three, and
item number five, I would move to approve as a group. They are
listed as follows:
Number two, Suffolk Environmental Consulting on behalf of
ESTATE OF FRED ADLER requests a One-Year Extension to Wetland
Permit#8436, as issued on May 21, 2014. Located: 415 Lakeside
Drive, Southold. SCTM# 1000-90-3-13
Number three, Patricia C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of MICHAEL
&SUSAN CAVOUNIS request a Transfer of Wetland Permit#8756 from
Joseph &Alberta Schupler to Michael & Susan Cavounis, as issued
on March 23, 2016. Located: 3475 Wells Road, Peconic. SCTM#
1000-86-2-9
Number five, Patricia C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of TOM &
PAULETTE GIESE request an Administrative Amendment to Wetland
Permit#8713 to relocate the pool fence to be installed 10'
landward of the bulkhead and landward of the non-turf buffer,
along north and south property lines, and landward of existing
dwelling; and for the 850sq.ft. bluestone pool patio to be
installed as an on-grade patio. Located: 2195 Nassau Point
Road, Cutchogue. SCTM# 1000-104-13-4
Is there a second?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number four, VERONICA LUGRIS & MARIJO ADIMEY
request a Transfer of Wetland Permit#7508 and Coastal Erosion
Permit#7508C from Mark McDonald &William McDonald III to
Veronica Lugris & Marijo Adimey, as issued on March 23, 2011.
Located: 21515 Soundview Avenue, Southold. SCTM# 1000-135-1-5
Based upon my field examination of the property, I make a
motion to approve this transfer with the continued condition
that as stated in permit#7508, and #7508C, that the two 12-foot
by 16-foot wood decks with stairs down to the bluff cannot be
reconstructed without further review from the Board of Trustees.
With that stipulation. That's my motion.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion made. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
VI. RESOLUTIONS - MOORING PERMITS:
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Item VI is for moorings. These moorings are transfers for
existing moorings within town waters. They have been reviewed for completeness and to
make sure the boats are properly registered. Accordingly, I move to approve these as a
group, item 1 through five on Item VI. They are listed as follows:
Board of Trustees 10 May 18, 2016
Number one, BETTY RUGG requests a Mooring Permit in Gull Pond for a 22'
sailboat, replacing Mooring #20. Access: Public
Number two, JOSEPH BRANTUK requests a Mooring Permit in Richmond Creek
for a 28' motorboat, replacing Mooring #21. Access: Public
Number three, DOUGLAS BIVIANO requests a Mooring Permit in East Creek for
a 17' outboard motorboat, replacing Mooring #61. Access: Public.
Number four, KEVIN KEEGAN requests a Mooring Permit in Mattituck Creek for
a 25' sailboat, replacing Mooring #121. Access: Public.
Number five, MATTHEW KAESSINGER requests a Mooring Permit in Corey
Creek for a 13' outboard motorboat, replacing Mooring #780. Access: Private
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: At this time I'll make a motion to go off
the regular meeting agenda and into public hearings. Is there a
second?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: If you would kindly try to keep your
comments at the public hearings to five minutes or less, and
keep them brief and succinct and to the point, that would be
appreciated.
VII. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
WETLAND & COASTAL EROSION PERMITS:
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number one, Docko, Inc., on behalf of FISHERS
ISLAND DEV. CORP., do FISHERS ISLAND MARINA, LLC requests a
Wetland Permit and a Coastal Erosion Permit to dredge ±9,350
cubic yards sandy silt over±70,500sq.ft. with a one (1)foot
over-dredge allowance of±2,400 cubic yards by clamshell bucket
for open water disposal; construct±36 linear feet of T wide
main pier extension and seven (7) ±30 linear foot by 4'wide
•
fixed finger piers with associated support tie-off and fender
piles; install ±228 linear feet of 8'wide main float with
eighteen (18) 20 linear foot by 3'wide finger floats; ±216
linear feet of 8'wide main floats with thirteen (13) 20 linear
foot by 3'wide finger floats, two (2) 20 linear foot by 4'
finger floats, two (2) 13'x42' and one (1) 19'x42' dry-sail
floats; all with associated ramps, restraint piles and
tie-off/fender piles; and reconstruct or replace existing
12'x20' dinghy float; add new±475sq.ft. float for the "Sea
Stretcher" access; repair or rebuild an existing ±350sq.ft. wood
launch ramp and dredge an access way to the sailing dock for
dredge access ±850 cubic years over±11,000sq.ft., waterward of
the apparent high water line; and install a small boat crane
landward of the apparent high water line. Located: Central
Avenue, Fishers Island. SCTM# 1000-10-1-9
The Trustees did a field inspection on May 5th. Present
were John Bredemeyer, myself, and Charles Sanders. We noted that
Board of Trustees 11 May 18, 2016
--we reference the Town's position on open water disposal of
dredge spoil, and the Town has resolved not to have spoil dropped
in New York State waters. And otherwise it's, it was a
straightforward application and provided a needed community
function in the form of the ambulance boat for Fishers Island.
The CAC did not make an inspection, therefore it did not
make a recommendation.
Is there anyone here to speak to this application?
MR. NIELSON: Yes, my name is Keith Nielson, I'm with Docko, Inc.
I prepared the application documents before you. This
application, except for the new access way dredging and the
modification to the sea stretcher dock and the reconstruction of
the launch ramp for the sailing program, is the same project
that was approved three years ago. And because of the
complications with dredge disposal in the Long Island Sound and
the disagreements between the New York State Department of
State, the New York DEC and the Connecticut DEP, the project has
become extremely expensive to conduct, and in order to get all
the work done it has to be phased over several years. The Corps
and DEC permits are still viable and so we are again applying to
get the entire project approved. The Fishers Island Marina LLC
will do as much of the project as they can and they understand
the consequences of the dredging issue.
If I can just take one minute to review the project, this
drawing shows the existing Fishers Island Marina complex, the
same as the photograph on your screen.
The second,drawing shows the Fishers Island Marina as the
rather lengthy description proposes it to be, and notice there .
is dredging to various depths. On the sailing program dock,
which is the innermost, is the area between the two middle docks
and then the outside section. This dredging in the marina basin
where the sea stretcher is located has already been accomplished
earlier this year. And the reason for this access way is because
the existing bottom sediments are so shallow, the dredge barge
can't get in to dredge the sailing program area. And so while
the access way will probably be the next section of dredging to
be accomplished, followed by the sailing program, next year,
probably 2017, in the Fall, we are not sure about how,much of
the remainder of the dredging will be able to be accomplished
before this permit expires.
The docks are all shown in this new drawing. We made a
special detail of the sea stretcher dock, which is one of the
most critical issues on the project because the northerly dock
along the bulkhead where the jib crane and where the mobile dock
operations and the parking is, that dock is supposed to get
finger piers. That will be reconstructed this next winter. The
sea stretcher dock we hope to build this summer and to put into
use, since it's the only method or means of egress off the
island other than scheduled ferry.
It's a rather complicated little float and it's meant to
stand alone or serve as an access way to the north float. If
Board of Trustees 12 May 18, 2016
there are any questions, I would be happy to answer them.
We do have a detailed, color-coded hydrographic survey if
you need to see more detail on any of the issues. But the
contours that are shown on the first sheet are taken from this
hydrographic survey, and you can see where the shallowest water,
the red is shaded, is right in the area where the access way has
to be dredged.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Thank you.
The LWRP coordinator found this to be consistent and
inconsistent. The inconsistency arises from the fact that test
results indicate that some of the sediments contain mercury and
it is recommended that, again, it's inconsistent with the Southold
Town policies regarding dredge spoil in Long Island Sound. It's
my understanding that no spoil would be deposited in New York
State waters.
MR. NIELSON: The approval of open-water dredge disposals in this
case is all in central Long Island Sound, which is all in
Connecticut waters. It is about three miles southeast of New
Haven Harbor. So I think your concern about the New York State
waters is taken care of in that regard.
The other thing I would like to point out is that the area
around the sea stretcher and the innermost docks was one of the
areas of most contaminated material. And I say that in relative
terms. The testing on data showed that the most prevalent
contaminant is cadmium. And cadmium -- I'm sorry, cadmium and
the mercury, and the area of the mercury was already dredged and
has already been capped. The area with the cadmium
concentrations, I have to point out that cadmium, these days, is
more than half of the cadmium solution in coastal waters is
coming from automobiles. It's coming from the tires. And there
is no way for us to stop it. It's not a marine-associated
contaminant. It's coming from everywhere. It's coming from every
street and every drainage culvert that flows into Long Island
Sound and into the rivers and estuaries and so on. And we can't
help it. It's a product of our civilization. It's not coming
from the boats and it's not coming the marina operations. So.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. I have a question and a possible
clarification. The Trustees prior permit, we had stipulated
there would be no disposal within New York State waters, to
honor the request from the Local Waterfront Revitalization
Program coordinator and New York State Department of State.
Question. What is the status before the Army Corps and DEC in
terms of permitting?
MR. NIELSON: We have received a letter from the DEC which
requested some information on the dock layout and the exact
parameters of the reconstruction for the launch ramp. The
dredging was not one of their issues. With the Corps of
Engineers, I don't remember getting any adverse comments from
the Corps of Engineers at this point. But their process is
typically a little slower than the remainder. Whatever it is,
when we do get comments, we would forward you copies of their
Board of Trustees 13 May 18, 2016
comments and our response to those comments.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Given the fact that there are these concerns
and the stated town policy went under the hand of the Town
supervisor, I would be concerned that we would move wholesale to
a final approval without waiting for the other agencies to
approve first, which is a provision in our Wetland code. I would
think that caution is the better part of valor in environmental
permitting here, and particularly since the US Army Corps of
Engineers has pending final studies. I guess on a final
programmatic EIS that is dealing with these locations even
though they are not in New York State waters, speaking for
myself, I don't know how the Board feels, I would be
uncomfortable with approval without the contingency that those
other approvals be granted first.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Just on the specifics on the dredging, but all
the other things can be acceptable?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: If the other permits are pending and
resolved quickly, I don't know if that's an issue. I don't know
if it warrants segmenting out any other parts of the
construction. I guess we are talking about the water ambulance,
maybe that would be a reason to let them continue with that if
the dredging is taking place there.
MR. NIELSON: If I can just offer one thing on that. The Corps of
Engineers and DEC permits and everything else are still valid
and they are valid through next year. I think it's January or
April, 2017. And so we only have this next Fall as the available
window to do this incremental dredging for the access area.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It was my understanding, correct me, that
the DEC or Army Corps had indicated that they would accept these
applications as an amendment to the existing permits?
MR. NIELSON: Yes. The DEC is processing this as a modification
to their existing permit.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: So what I'm suggesting is the Board could
approve this subject to receipt of those other permits. In other
words just administratively issue the permits upon receipt of
copies of those permits, so it would not be an additional time
delay.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: I would agree.
MR. NIELSON: Would that also allow reconstruction of the little
sailing program launch ramp?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I don't think that's an issue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's not an issue.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: We can condition it on receipt from DEC.
Does anyone else wish to speak to this application?
(No response).
Any other questions or comments from the Board?
MR. HANLON: I'm Robert Hanlon, I'm a resident of Orient. I have
no special knowledge about this and I truly didn't intend to
speak to it, but I guess I'm a little puzzled, that we have a
policy that we don't allow dredge spoils to be dropped in New
York State waters. And the representation from the applicant is
Board of Trustees 14 May 18, 2016
now that, okay, we'll drop the dredge spoils in Connecticut
waters, so everything is okay. The Connecticut waters and the
New York State waters gladly and freely intermix quite heavily
and very quickly. And I guess I'm, I understand that we only
have jurisdiction over New York State waters, but it seems as if
there is permission is being asked to do the dredging where we
know these dredge spoils will go somewhere else. And it would
seem that there should be some comity between New York and
Connecticut in trying to address what happens to these dredge
spoils, and at very least we should understand Connecticut has
no objection to these dredge spoils being put in its waters, and
even if they don't, the states may have concerns about it. It
may not be your concern. But just being told, okay, we'll dump
_them in somebody else's backyard seems like something that would
give us pause.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It seems like a point very well taken. I
believe the current EIS process, if this is sort of coming to,
it would appear to be coming to a bit of conclusion. In fact to
try to deal with those issues with New York State weighing in
heavily they don't wish to have material going in the Sound at
all. This project being, recognized by the agencies as being of
• a deeper scale. But, no, it's true. And it's disturbing. And
we also don't have Connecticut communities that are dredging the
basins at the end of large rivers, they're not needing their
ambulance to get to the other side. So this has, this project
predates the current EIS, in totality, it does predate. But
certainly it gives pause for the.Trustees, we could have added
in like New Jersey and Maryland for the spoils to go. But, it's
equally as crazy.
MR. NIELSON: If I can just say one other thing. We have a DEP
permit from Connecticut to dispose of the dredge material at
central Long Island Sound. And it is still valid.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Any other questions or comments from the Board?
(Negative response).
Hearing none, I make a motion to approve this application
subject to DEC and Army Corps of Engineering approval, and with
' - the stipulation that no spoil be deposited in New York State waters.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion has been made. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'll second that. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. NIELSON: Thank you.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Under Wetland and Coastal Erosion Permits,
number two, Docko, Inc., on behalf of ISLAND HOLDING LLC, do
DAVID LONG requests a Wetland Permit and a Coastal Erosion
Permit to construct a 4' wide by±95 linear foot long post/pile
supported fixed wood pier of which ±63 linear feet is waterward
of the apparent high tide line, with tie-off piles; railings on
both sides; associated ladders; and a 3'wide pile supported
ships ladder at seaward end. Located: 1982 Brooks Point Road,
Fishers Island. SCTM# 1000-3-3-3.5
Board of Trustees 15 May 18, 2016
The LWRP coordinator has found this project to be consistent.
The CAC did not make an inspection, therefore no recommendation
was made.
And on 5/5/16, Mike Domino, myself and Dave Bredemeyer
inspected this property.
Would anyone on behalf of the applicant like to speak to
the project?
MR. NIELSON: Yes, sir. My name is Keith Nielson, I'm with Docko
Inc., and I prepared the application documents and the site plan
for your review tonight.
From some information in our file, I was wondering do you
all have the signed and sealed revised plans for this project?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: April 7th, 2016?
MR. NIELSON: I believe so.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I believe we reviewed the revised plans
_ while we were on the island, yes.
MR. NIELSON: Okay. It's a very slight dog leg.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes.
MR. NIELSON: The application that I prepared included of all
your standard application forms and a detailed narrative and
also include copies of the application documents to the Corps of
Engineers, New York DEC and the DOS. And in that narrative we
addressed all the issues not only in your local regulations but
also in the coastal management part of the DOS review and the
state environmental review for tidal wetlands.
This project is, this is a bit of a tough site in view of
all the boulders along the shoreline, and there are equally
obstructed bottom sediments. In your photograph there, the site
is toward the upper end of the point, right above where your
cursor is right now. And it's an open and exposed site. It's not
suitable for a floating dock in that area. And just to the right
of your cursor there. There you go. And the, but the water
reaches a fairly decent depth, fairly quickly, and so the
structure is not of adverse length, and we stop short of the eel
grass that is in a band right across the face of the property.
If you just move your cursor straight down, that's the dock
site. Just to the left of that. There you go. In that little
recess. And diagrammatically, we have shown the pier starting to
the left, the west of the three cherry trees and going out in a
northeasterly direction. The slight angle will give a little
bit better riding capability to a boat at the end of the pier,
so in view of the wave direction incoming from the northwest. We
are clear of tidal wetlands resources. There was some seaside
golden rod growing out of some patches of the boulders, and we
kept the pier to the west of those patches. There is no other
adverse impacts, and I believe we made the necessary
certifications and case for this dock in the application.
If there are any questions, I would be happy to answer
them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Where in this picture is the eel grass?
MR. NIELSON: I'll point it out(indicating).
Board of Trustees 16 May 18, 2016
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
MR. NIELSON: The band runs like this. Right through here. There
is about--
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: During the course of field inspection we can
see the bottom shading, it's not really growing yet but it was
evident the dock location as proposed that this is the eel grass
bed.
MR. NIELSON: The pier stops about 30 to 40 feet short of the eel
grass. If you see on the drawing here, this light green area is
the eel grass. Here is the pier, and I just shaded the light
blue around the pier, that's all the water seaward of the mean
low water line. So there is enough room and surprising amount of
water depth for boat to come in there and maneuver without
impacting the eel grass.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Would anyone else like to speak behalf of this
applicant? .
(No response). -
-Thoughts from the Board?
(Negative response).
I'll make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Is there a second?
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE SANDERS: I'll make a motion to approve this application.
It is deemed consistent under the LWRP.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion is made. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
- TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Next item, number three, Suffolk
Environmental Consulting on behalf of DEBORAH MOSS requests a
Wetland Permit and a Coastal Erosion Permit to construct bluff
stairs consisting of 4'x5' entry steps to a 4'x8' top platform,
4'x11' steps, 4'x4' middle platform, 4'x9.5' steps, 4'x6' middle
platform, 4'x11.5' steps, 4'x6' bottom platform, 4'x8.5' steps,
and 4'x4' landing; construct a rock revetment along the toe of
the bluff measuring ±12'wide by±175' long and comprised of 3-5
ton armor stone and 50-100Ib. Core stone (Key Way), all atop
filter fabric; restore bluff face (±5,500sq.ft.) by cutting back
the top of bluff+5' landward of-the existing top of bluff;
install jute matting where required; install Bio-Logs where
required; and actively re-vegetate the bluff face using native
plantings (i.e., Cape American beach grass or similar species).
Located: 1585 Demarest Road,Orient. SCTM# 1000-13-2-7.10
This project has been determined to be consistent with the
LWRP, with two,cautionary statements attached to the assessment.
One is to clarify where the access to the site will be
established for the work; and the second, is that the Board
should,assess the impacts that might possibly occur to the
Board of Trustees 17 May 18, 2016
property to the west from shoreline armoring as there has been
armoring for properties, several properties to the east.
The Trustees performed a field inspection on May 11th. The
entire Board present. The Board has been cognizant of several
revetment construction projects on the Sound that I would, we
would best characterize as unmitigated disasters where after the
Board had written permits and received hearing at public
hearings, that projects would be accessed by crane and barge,
bluff cuts were made the full depth of the Sound, in some cases
over 75 feet, with roads dumping silt and,materials into the
Sound and the people constructing the revetments having
to retreat weeks on end while northeast winds ravished and
silted up the Sound for hundreds if not thousands of acres.
Accordingly, based on our experience, the Board is disposed in
the field inspection to note that no bluff cut be allowed,
access will have to be by crane and barge only or from the top
of the bluff or with some supplemental permitting information
concerning the construction of an appropriate access road. That
was the basis of our field inspection based on this area and the
neighboring homes, which the bay constable was called on a
complaint on a construction of a revetment on one of the
neighboring homes, as I did receive a call`as well, and we have in
our file pictures of other jobs that were similar went forward
without the approval of the Board, with potentially major damage
to Long Island Sound took place over several weeks.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this
application?
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson for the applicant Deborah Moss,
from Suffolk Environmental Consulting. I want to thank you for
meeting me at the site to review it a week ago.
As we discussed, and I did have a chance to discuss with _
the client, that it is our intention and understanding that we
will be able to access the shoreline through the barge as there
is no large boulders in the water that would preclude that V '
access. So we think that is easily done. ,
As to the second point, to the property to the west,
think the photo that is up there on the screen addresses that.
You'll see that the erosion and the compromised bluff is limited
to really our property. And the reason is because of the shape
of the shoreline there. So it is inconceivable to me that the
revetment that we would be building would impact the point which
is well off the site. And I think that's where that concern goes.
So the revetment itself and the stairs, et cetera, are
substantially similar to the other revetments that have been
constructed and the stairs that have been constructed in
immediate area. And the concern being really the access to the
bluff. So it was my understanding if for some reason a bluff cut
, wouldberequired, it would have to be fully engineered, and
that would then be referred to the town engineer, which I think
is a fair process. But we are not asking for that at this time.
And it's my understanding that the equipment can access the site
1
Board of Trustees 18 May 18, 2016
via barge.
I'm here to answer any further questions you may have.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I think with respect to the project, it is
pretty straightforward and very much in keeping with the other
projects to the east. I guess the concern would be during the
course of construction if there was of a failure of the lateral
land to the west, would the owners be willing to extend some of
the jute matting, in other words as you approach the property'
line if you end up having bluff collapse during construction,
that stabilization could occur by agreement with adjacent land
owners, because we have seen beginning, with the severe weather
we have been having and another one of the sites where we have
gained experience, that sometimes things don't exactly go as
planned during construction of these projects. Particularly
where there is not a natural angle of repose, the tendency of
the bluffs to collapse during construction is a very real concern.
MR. ANDERSON: I would say, absolutely, I think that would be the
responsible way to go.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Any other questions?Would
anyone else wish to speak to this application?
MS. ERLICH: Julia Erlich. Do I submit this now?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: You would like to enter a letter into the
record?
MS. ERLICH: Yes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Would you like to read it for us?
MS. ERLICH: Okay, I could read it. I just wanted to say,
though, that I don't know if that photograph, if it's made clear
in the photograph where their property line actually is. Whose
stairs are those, by the way?
MR. ANDERSON: Those are the adjacent property owner Lalezari.
MS. ERLICH: Do you see there, a hedge?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes.
MS. ERLICH: Okay, so that hedge is pretty much the property
line, and you can see that there is some erosion that is
beginning to creep over to our property. You can also see our
stairs -- you see the point there. And you see the stairs sort
of, our stairs..And I also want to say that--
TRUSTEE SANDERS: I'm a little confused. Are you here?Are you
talking this?
MS. ERLICH: Yes. That's our stairs and that's our property. And
therewas a big storm, Christmas day of 2010, which was followed
by Hurricane Irene in the Summer of 2011, and after those two
events, every single house east of us, up to Penny's Point,
which you can't see in this photograph, had severe erosion. And
after the hurricane, every one of them lost their stairs. Every
single property to the east of us up to Penny's Point.
The first person to remediate was Joan Prager who was two
houses down from the person who owns those stairs and she built a
revetment, she built new stairs but none of the other neighbors
wanted to go in with her. After she built her revetment, the
erosion became worse for all the neighbors, which is something
1
Board of Trustees 19 May 18, 2016
think typically happens to adjacent properties with a revetment
or any other kind of hard structure, even if it's a parallel structure.
And so last summer, the person who owns those stairs, I'm trying to figure -
out, yes, because, okay, the person who owns those stairs and every other
house up to Sinclair, the one long, it basically built one long
revetment, which ends at the property below these stairs. So
the house right next door to us, the Moss house, is now applying
for an application to have their revetment done which means
we'll be at the end of a long revetment wall, so we are actually
concerned about what the effects would be for us. Since -- maybe
I should read something from the letter here.
Let me just start with that. I think in the Southold Town
water revitalization project report, which is a long report, but
it talks about what the, one of the things it talks about is
what kind of erosion measures are deemed to be useful.
Particularly on the Sound and high bluffs. And they have come to
the conclusion that, in their own report, bulkheads, seawalls• •
and revetments deflect wave energy in a manner that accelerates
the rate of adjacent shoreline erosion. And that's just one of
the places where they basically say that revetments might work
in the short time to protect the property directly behind the
revetment but if you are unfortunate enough to live next to a
• revetment or a bulkhead or a seawall, you are going to suffer
the consequences. So we are just worried about the erosion that.
may occur on our property.
Also, according to the plans that we got, there is proposed
stairs are really just right up against our property line at the
top of the bluff. Although it doesn't show where the property
line is on your plans. And at the bottom of the stairs where the
landing is, the markers that you had put on the beach itself,
don't correspond to the drawing. And the drawing appears it
would be directly below the landing at the top of the bluff. And
then there is a revetment that sort of extends six feet beyond
that. And we question whether this is actually on the Moss
property or on our property.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The project plan is scaled to one inch
equals 40 feet, and the distance from the proposed stairs at the
closest to your plot line is somewhat less than half-inch, would
be approximately 17 to 20 feet that the stairs begin.
MS. ERLICH: No.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'm not here to argue points one way or the
other. Typically the Trustees request where sufficient space is
possible to gain, that docks, catwalks and stairways be at least
15 feet off side property lines, and that distance allows for
stabilization with the plantings so that there is no erosion
that would be created that would go offsite.
MS. ERLICH: It would be good if that were the fact but at least
according to the markers that you put on the top of the bluff,
which I assume indicate where the top of the stairs go, and the
landing at the bottom of the bluff on the beach, are not
consistent with those measurements. The 17 feet is definitely
Board of Trustees 20 May 18, 2016
not consistent.
MR. ANDERSON: If I may, the hedge is not actually your property
line. The hedge is five feet. The western edge of that hedge is
another five feet off of your property line. So the way this is
supposed to work is that the upper platform for the stairs is 20
feet off your property line. What I could suggest is if there is
a concern that inadvertently the revetment is placed on your
lands, that we could have it marked, that is the corner, the
juncture of the bottom of, the toe of the bluff and the property
line be marked by a licensed surveyor prior to construction and
that should be--
MS. ERLICH: That would be very comfortable.
MR. ANDERSON: I would be happy to do that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Please direct your comments to the Chair.
MR. ANDERSON: So if the Trustees were to, as a condition of
approval, request that, we would be happy to comply with that. I
think that would address your concern.
MS. ERLICH: Okay, I just want to say, that there is a pipe
marker at the edge of the bluff, it's just to the east of that
hedge which has been there, which is the original property line
marker. It was there when we bought the property and it is still
there. So that is easy to see where the property line is. As far
as, you know, measuring, that's good. I think possibly, urn, it
might be a good idea to have a third-party engineer, evaluate,
who is neutral, evaluate the situation as to what kind of damage
might accrue to our property as a result of this revetment and
all the work that will be done, including the five foot plus cut
back that you were, that you plan to do at the top of the bluff.
If you are going to cut back five feet, you know, it's all one
thing. It's like the waters of Connecticut and New York, it's
arbitrary.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Are you willing to hire your own engineer to
give a design proposal?
MS. ERLICH: No, I'm not. Because we don't think we should be
required to pay for that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Another possibility is the Trustees, in our
power, we can hold until the other agencies complete their
review. In the case the Department of Environmental Conservation,
which will have several different groups within the department
review the project. Also, if they were to alter the plans to
accommodate any additional changes that would be necessary,
mean obviously we all live in the real worldand we witnessed
what happened after Sandy. Also the Board has granted the
permits for the other structures. You also did hear that the
applicant is willing to extend the vegetation and coir logs over
on to your property so it might be, and obviously I don't
believe such things go on for ever and ever, if you have vacant
land yourself you can then also apply to the Trustees for
Administrative Permit to do terracing and coir logs on your own
side at the same time this work is done and that way would have
an interlocking system of vegetation on the upland side that
Board of Trustees 21 May 18, 2016
might actually proceed to link up with your existing vegetation.
There are certainly limits to what the Board can do but we
do rely on the expertise of the Department of Environmental
Conservation as well and we could hold final determination here
for the DEC permits.
MS. ERLICH: Okay.
MR. ANDERSON: I would just say that at the end of the day both
permits have to agree. So that's probably not necessary. That
is to say, if the DEC were to change some aspect of this, we
would be coming back here for an amendment anyway, consistent
with those changes.
MS. ERLICH: I'm not following. Okay, so the DEC -- I don't
understand what they mean by the these are title two or chapter
two of SEQRA therefore they are not subject to environmental
review. How is that? But they are. Or aren't they?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Coastal revetting structures have been
typically taken as Type II Actions. And they have not been
processed by any of the involved agencies as unlisted actions
pursuant to SEQRA. It's just the way they have been processed.
MS. ERLICH: But this will be evaluated by the DEC.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: That is correct
MS. ERLICH: Prior to any permit. And that has not been done yet,
right?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: They don't have a DEC permit, to my
understanding.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: It's subject to a DEC--
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Subject to a DEC permit.
MS. ERLICH: So you are making your permit subject to that as
well?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: This is all under consideration. That's the
purpose of a public hearing is to allow you to voice your
concerns and for us to get additional information and to talk to
the applicant about feasibility of the project.
MS. ERLICH: What he suggested --
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: You have to address the Chair.
MS. ERLICH: That he would extend the jute matting, is that at
the top of the bluff or is that at the bottom?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It would be a matter for us to clarify in
further discussion. I would presume that where the jute matting
is needed, adjacent to the property line is where you are
constructing would carry over some reasonable distance onto
their property; is that safe to say, top to bottom?
MR. ANDERSON: What's safe to say is that we don't have any
intention of touching the property and to the extent we can be
good neighbors and protect anything directly adjacent, I'm sure
we would be willing to do that. I can't suppose there is an
incursion onto her property. We are not here to install a
revetment on someone else's property or anything on someone
else's property. Having said that, you know, we are not here to
damage adjacent property. I'm sure we'll take the responsible
steps to avoid that sort of situation.
,
Board of Trustees 22 May 18, 2016
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All right, are there any more comments from
the Board? .
TRUSTEE SANDERS: I just have one other comment. Are you willing
to hire an engineer or somebody on your own behalf to determine
whether or not that can be something that would be damaging to
your property?
MS. ERLICH: We believe that the revetments in and of themselves
cause further erosion and accelerated erosion to the adjacent
properties. We don't need an engineer to tell us that. The Town
of Southold has already determined that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you.
Is there anyone else here that wishes to speak to this application?
MS. ERLICH: Also, I just want to say one other thing, that he
would get a surveyor with respect to survey the beach.
MR. ANDERSON: I think that's reasonable. That's completely acceptable.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Anyone else?
(Negative response).
Hearing no further comment.
MR. KIELY: Would you still like to submit that letter for the
record, for the file?
MS. ERLICH: Yes. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Hearing no further comments, I'll make a
motion to close this hearing with the inclusion of the letter in the file.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion made and second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Given sensitivity of this project and
acknowledged concerns of the neighbor, and the requirements of
the coastal erosion hazard act to protect the lateral lands, I
think it might be wise to approve the application noting that it
is consistent with the stipulation that it receive the DEC
approval as a stipulation, and that way we are on solid ground
and can afford the neighbor if there was a need of product
modification that they would seek to get before the DEC,
understanding it's fairly straightforward. Anyhow, I'll move to
approve subject to DEC approval and that prior to the project
commencing, an additional inspection be made to confirm that the
project will be taking place entirely on the property of Moss,
noting that the applicant has offered to provide some additional
coir logs and jute matting in the adjacent area, particularly if
there is an issue with collapse of the bluff in the vicinity of
the neighbor's property line during the construction of the
revetment. That is my motion.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, very much.
WETLAND PERMITS:
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Under Wetland Permits, number one, RICHARD GLUCKMAN
,
Board of Trustees 23 May 18, 2016
requests a Wetland Permit for a Ten (10)Year Maintenance Permit to remove
non-native and invasive vegetation while preserving native vegetation; to establish and
subsequently maintain a 100'wide Non-Disturbance, Non-Fertilization Buffer along the
landward edge of the wetland vegetation along the westerly side of the property; and to.
establish and subsequently maintain a 50'wide non-turf naturally vegetated buffer
landward of the southern property line along King Street continuing in a northerly
direction towards Orchard Street while decreasing to a 25' non-turf buffer. Located:
4760 Orchard Street, Orient. SCTM# 1000-27-3-7.2
The LWRP found this to be consistent.
The CAC resolved to support this application.
The Trustees performed a field inspection on April 13th and only note was
that we were checking on the non-native species that were indicated on the plans.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on this application?
(No response).
Comments from the Board?
(Negative response).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I guess it was just noted on the field
inspection when we were ground-truthing the proposal, as you
said, there was an area in the proposed non-disturbance zone
where they were going to put in vegetation that was not of the
native vegetation.
I believe a gentleman is here to speak to this application.
MR. GLUCKMAN: Sir, can you repeat that question again, that
last point?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It wasn't a question. It was the point that
in the area adjacent to New York State Department of
Environmental Conservation property where you had volunteered on
your project plan to have a non-disturbance zone, you had held
out to put some non-native trees in there, and that was, it's
sort of contrary to the notion of the non-disturbance zones we
would like to restrict those to native vegetation and not have
non-native trees. Unless we misread the application, it looked
like you were excluding an area where you want to have
non-native trees.
MR. GLUCKMAN: So you want to revise the sketch plans I did so
the two westerly areas are, take away that comment about
non-native trees, but native trees can go in there?
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Yes
MR. GLUCKMAN: Okay, that's fine. Do I need to revise this?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We would usually request, yes, a simple
revision on that would be appreciated.
MR. GLUCKMAN: Fine.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Anyone else here who wishes to speak on this
application?
(Negative response).
Any commends from the Board?
(Negative response).
I make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
Board of Trustees 24 May 18, 2016
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: I make a motion to approve this application
with the condition of no non-native trees to be planted in the
area, in the western area.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion made. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Under Wetland Permits, number three, GFH HOMES,
LLC, do GLENN HEIDTMANN, JR. requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a ±2,800sq.ft. dwelling with attached garage and
13'x26' seaward porch; install a new sanitary system; install a
16'x32' in-ground pool to be elevated up to ±5' above grade with
a ±42' long retaining wall on seaward side; install a ±300sq.ft.
pool patio; install a pool equipment area; and for the
installation of gutters to leaders to drywells to contain
storm-water runoff. Located: 675 Hill Road, Southold.
SCTM# 1000-70-4-28
The LWRP found this to be consistent and required that a
vegetated non-turf buffer be established landward of the
wetlands.
The CAC resolved not to support the application because the
house and the pool setbacks are not in compliance with Chapter
275 Wetlands.
The Trustees went out on May 11th, all were present, and
basic notes we are talking about the possible buffer.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak to this
application, please step forward.
MS. ABOYOUN: Good evening, my name is Jane Aboyoun, my wife Emma
Van Royan and I live 575 Hill Road, which is directly east of
this proposed property. We prepared an impact statement and if
it's okay with the Board I would like to read it. •
We have a number of concerns with what is being proposed'.
The reason we bought on the north fork was because it was the
un-Hampton, and what is proposed sort of fights against that.
There was an article in New York Times June, 2013, Supervisor of
Southold Scott Russell made a statement that the north fork
would not flirt with being overbuilt and overcrowded, yet our
first concern with the property, what is being proposed, is we
are, the, what is being proposed, the house is only 40 feet from
the, Hill Road, setback, versus our house which is over 100 feet
setback, and all the other homes are also further setback. So
this home is pushed much further up to the road, which makes it
very inconsistent.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: I just want to interrupt for one moment. One
thing we can't do, we can only deal with things that are related
just to the Trustees. Anything outside of building envelope,
things of that nature, goes way out of our purview. So your
comments need to be directed specifically to how this is
affected under the Trustee rules. Does that make sense? The
other comments you made, they were not in line with just talking
1
Board of Trustees 25 May 18, 2016
directly about the Trustee issues.
MS. ABOYOUN: So is the house setback a Trustee issue?The
setback from the road and it being inconsistent with the rest of
the neighborhood a Trustee issue?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We are more concerned with setback from the
creeks. That would be what we do.
MS. ABOYOUN: So that's another concern we have. So one is the
setback from the road. The second concern is the location of the
pool, which is very, very close to the wetland, the flood lines.
At that property there is quite a bit of erosion at the end, and
we are concerned there is the overflow, it's literally right at
the end line. I have a drawing. This is hard to see, but right
here, this is our property and this is the proposed property.
You can see where the water line juts in and where the pool is
being proposed is literally right at that line, right at the
line. So any overflow of the pool or any issue is going to flow
right into here and then we are concerned it will cause further
erosion to our water line. It's very clear if you look at
Google maps.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Could I see that picture you have there?
MS. ABOYOUN: Sure. See, this property, this is our house on the
east. This is the house on the west. The shoreline, the water
line kind of juts in. It's already eroded. And the pool where
it's set is very close to here (indicating). Any overflow, we
are just concerned it will flow into our property, ruining our
water line, et cetera.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You have the bulkheaded property, correct?
MS. ABOYOUN: I'm on this side, right.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You're on that side. Okay, thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: With respect to overflow of the swimming
pool, the Board typically, in reviewing projects and granting
approvals for shore-side locations, is establishing non-turf
areas or non-disturbance areas which can dissipate typical flows
from even a pool overflowing even at a full rate of the fill ,
broken. And that would tend to ameliorate and reduce the water
velocity. So the larger concern is the activities on the
shoreline and shoreline hardening and adjacent structures that
actually, tidal influences, storm tides, have more of an
influence than what we would expect. And there are, unless the
property has previously been bulkheaded and has turf on it, a
project such as this is typically, all of them, receive some
sort of restriction concerning land use, you know, between pools
or other structures in the waterway. I'm not sure-- unless they
are proposing --
MS. ABOYOUN: The pool is right at the flood line. It's literally
right at the flood line.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: You are talking about Zone "X."
MS. ABOYOUN: Zone "X," exactly. So any issue, you are right
there. There is no room for error.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The issue might be when the waters come in,
they'll have fish in their pool. I don't mean to make light of
Board of Trustees 26 May 18, 2016
it. But it's simply, the buffers we provide are pretty generous
and it's something the Board'can consider on this project. The
Board, the code has a 50-foot setback for pools. The Board could
conceivable, we could dial it back a few feet. That's always a
consideration for the Board.
MS. ABOYOUN: I think it would be helpful rather than being right
at the line for that zone.
The third concern is that the whole pool and entertainment
area is literally 15 feet off our property line versus 40 feet
off the other neighbor's property line.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: That's out of our hands. We totally understand
where you are coming from, but again, we are limited to what we
can deal with within the Trustees. So. The pool issue, that's
very valid. It's 48.2 feet. We generally, like the Chairman
said, grant 50. So there is a possibility to dial that back.
don't know what anyone anybody else's thoughts are. We can dial
it back to 50.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Let other people speak. I don't know if the
applicant is here.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Right. Those are just thoughts.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else here that wishes to speak
to this application?
(Negative response).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Any Trustees?Any additional comments?
The project plan offers the possibilities of moving the
pool deck and pool back so it's a minimum of 50 feet, and it
seems that it could be redrawn. It doesn't,look like that would
impose even a hardship. It would not even reduce the size of the
pool.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What about a saltwater pool?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We could make it contingent on a saltwater
pool with no chlorination.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: That's agreat idea.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And 20-foot non-turf should do it for the pool
there.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comments?
(Negative response).
All right, I make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion has been made. Is there s second?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make a motion to approve this application
with the stipulation that on the plans they put in a 20-foot
non-turf buffer; that they also depict the retaining wall that
is not shown on the plans next to the pool; and they dial the
pool back at least 50 feet from the wetlands; and that the pool
would be required to be a saltwater pool.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Subject to submission of new plans.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Correct.
Board of Trustees 27 May 18, 2016
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion has been made. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The next application is HENRY& MELISSA
SILVERMAN request a Wetland Permit to construct a dock
consisting of a 4'x10' landward ramp using open grate decking
with 3' high handrails on each side; leading to a 4'x95' catwalk
with open grate decking, 3' high handrails on each side, and two
(2) 2'x8' benches at seaward end; a 3'x24' aluminum ramp with
handrails; a 2'x5' bump-out float; a 6'x20'floating dock secured by
two batter piles and one tie-off pile; all associated piles to be 10" in
diameter; and equip the dock with water and electric.
Located: 2800 Deep Hole Drive, Mattituck. SCTM# 1000-123-4-12
The project has been deemed to be inconsistent with the
LWRP. In a report dated January 14th, the Local Waterfront
Revitalization Program coordinator cautioned the Board to make
sure that the proposed dock was consistent with all the
regulatory and statutory requirements of the Trustees; and that
whether the dock might impair navigation or areas of high vessel
traffic; and meet the requirements of the Chapter 275; and do an
assessment as to whether the expansion is consistent with the
existing dock line; and to identify the vessel that would be
held there; and specifically an assessment as to whether the expansion
would interfere with the use of the waterways could not be made
at that time.
In response to the LWRP coordinator's report, under my
hand, I directed a letter to the-Silverman's requesting
additional information, including that they have their licensed
land surveyor place upon their project plan the layout for the
corridor that the Suffolk County Department of Public Works
maintenance dredging uses so that we could ascertain the project
' would not be interfering with navigation or the needs of Suffolk
County in maintaining the access channel.
The CAC report, the CAC did not support. It was not staked
at the time. They performed their inspection and they did not
see a notice of hearing. There was a major concern with the
structure exceeding the one-third width of the creek as well as
exceeding the limitation of square footage for floating docks.
Those issues were addressed in the return that we received from
the Silverman's, which could also be further discussed during
the course of the hearing.
The Board of Trustees had performed two inspections on the
property, and the latest being on May 11th. At that time, we
discussed with the applicant his needs for more than one
handrail where he had requested to mirror what the neighbor had
and said he would be willing to incorporate a rope handrail to
be less visually intrusive.
The Board indicated there were slight discrepancies
concerning the length of the dock reported in one place at 94
Board of Trustees 28 May 18, 2016
feet and the other at 95 feet, and also the Board reported based
on the prior permitting of neighboring structures and
traditionally in this creek that ten-inch piles exceed what is
necessary for this creek, will cause unnecessary disturbance of
' the bottom. So inform the applicant that typically the largest
piles in this creek, which handle, accommodate, which do
accommodate ice and other flows in the wintertime eight inches
is more than adequate.
The Board also reviewed with the applicant that the prior
Administrative Permit for a four-foot wide access path had been
violated. It was a bit wider and that the applicant is to
refrain from cutting any additional vegetation. And there was a
reiteration of the use of through-flow permitting, and
discussion that water and electric to this facility will require
a building permit to accommodate proper electrical safety, and
that there was a notion based on the discussion at the
work session that because of the sensitivity of the wetlands on
the site that due consideration should be given that the
trenching, all the trenching for future electric and water
either be done by hand or with such a trenching tool that would
be limited so it could operate within a four-foot access path.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this -
application?
MR. SILVERMAN: Hi. Henry Silverman, the owner. Yes, we pretty
content. The only comment I had was on the piles, would it be
possible to have ten-inch piles, the ones that we discussed were
dolphin or ice breakers at the end.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Meaning those that would hold the 6x20'
float?
MR. SILVERMAN: Yes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We can take that under consideration.
MR. SILVERMAN: Okay. And also those angled ones to hold those in
place.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Right. You wish two have a two-pile dent to
hold them in place because that's, I think the neighbor has that as well.
MR. SILVERMAN: The ice flow, yes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes, that's a pretty open site.
MR. SILVERMAN: All right. And we did also meet all the
requirements that DEC had requested also. And the rope rail
would be totally fine with us.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Any questions from the Board?
(Negative response).
Anyone else wish to speak to this application?
MR. BERGEN: Good evening. Dave Bergen, from Cutchogue. Good to
see you all. I think the Board has already addressed some of the
construction standards here. I did note on here on the plan it
has a 6x20 CCA treated floating dock. I just want to bring that to
your attention, that's on the plans, and as you know that is not
allowed under code.
My primary purpose in coming here tonight was not to object
to this gentleman, to the Silverman's having a dock. It's the
Board of Trustees 29 May 18, 2016
concern I have regarding the location of the dock and boat,
because the width of the boat has to be taken into
consideration, in relation to the two channels that are there.
One is an existing channel that has been there a long time, Deep
Hole Creek. The other one is the new Deep Hole Creek extension
channel that the Trustees worked for about three years on to get
that channel put in place. And while on the plans it shows this
dock does not appear to impede with either those channels, that
is what is on paper, I think since this is a brand new channel
that was just dredged this past, I believe, December, that there
needs to be, I'm talking about the extension channel, it needs
to be looked at a little more carefully. What I would recommend
to the Board at this point is something that is highly unusual,
but this is an unusual situation, and that be a field inspection
be done from the water. Now, I went out yesterday to look at
this, not from the Silverman's property but from another piece
property, a neighbor, and the stake was gone. I'm sure it
drifted away from when you folks went out there. So I could not
see where the terminal end of the dock, proposed dock is in
relation to the channels. What I would recommend is that the
Trustees go out and do a field inspection from the water, taking
soundings from the distance of the terminal end of the dock,
adding to it the width of proposed vessel that is going to be
there, making sure that this vessel and dock does not interfere
with this new channel that was just dredged.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Per chance did you see the return submission
that showed the scope of the county DPW corridor?
MR. BERGEN: I don't know that I have seen that. What I have here
is, again, the survey of this channel. But we know this is a
brand new channel that was just dredged. Whether what was
actually dredged comports with what is on this survey--
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: As a practical matter.
MR. BERGEN: Yes. As a practical matter. So that's what I'm
saying, to try to protect this gentleman, the Silverman's from
running into problems from other boats that are navigating the
new Willis Creek channel, I'm suggesting to the Board that you
table and go out and do a survey from the water, you know, to
check the depths, and then can you see exactly where this new
channel is in relation to a proposed dock and vessel.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: They have gotten from the Suffolk County--
the surveyor Nate Corwin, in his survey that he gave us, there
was a revision dated April 17th revision. He had gone to the
Department of Public Works at our insistence, and they did put
the plot on here. Actually, that was one of the reasons for the
second field inspection was to see if the apparent dredged
corridor did comport with that. Interestingly enough there is a
dock on the other side of the creek that just slightly goes into
that. But it's not an unreasonable notion because all are
served well by having proper access to these creeks, as we know,
and of course we know how hard, and in your former life as a
Trustee, you worked with the Suffolk County Department of Public
Board of Trustees 30 May 18, 2016
Works to get these waterways open not only for navigation but
for the health of the creeks. And it's not an unreasonable
notion that we don't make a mistake here.
MR. BERGEN: Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Does anyone else wish to speak to this
application? '
MR. FINN: Good evening, my name is Herbert Finn, I live at 230
Willis Creek, Mattituck. I'm right in the area. I'm also a
licensed US Coast Guard captain, very familiar with the area,
very familiar with that creek. And following up on what Mr.
Bergen stated, I think it will interfere. So I think with the
new channel, I think you have to go back and take a look at it.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes
to speak to this application?
(Negative response).
Hearing none, any questions from the Board? Additional
comments?
(Negative response).
Okay, at this time I would like to table this application to
perform an on-water survey. I think we'll arrange it to be
concluded as quickly as possible with a sounding board or means
of checking depths. We'll get the constable and at least one or
two members of the Board on the boat with the constable and so
that we may make the proper assessment.
MR. SILVERMAN: Yes. Henry Silverman, the owner, again.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'm sorry but we actually closed the comment
and I'm now engaged in rendering a resolution to table the
matter so we do this assessment
MR. SILVERMAN: There is no -- can I make a comment?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Not really, no.
MR. SILVERMAN: Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. It's my motion that we table this
application for a check on the actual channel corridor in
relation to the proposal and the meets and bounds on the survey
of the Suffolk County Department of Public Works.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number five. Suffolk Environmental Consulting on
behalf of 470 LLOYDS LANE, LLC, do ANDREW DRAZIC requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a 71.4'x99.6' (3,143sq.ft.)
two-story dwelling with a 51'x42' (1,746sq.ft.) attached deck; a
12'x38' (456sq.ft.)swimming pool; install a sanitary system
landward of proposed dwelling; install a 2,880sq.ft. driveway;
connect to public water; install gutters to leaders to drywells
to contain roof runoff; and to clear a 25,630sq.ft. area up to
50 feet from the top of bluff. Located: 470 Lloyds Lane,
Mattituck. SCTM# 1000-99-3-4.3
The LWRP coordinator found this to be consistent.
The CAC resolved to support the application and questioned the existing
Board of Trustees 31 May 18, 2016
disturbed condition of the non-disturbance buffer. And recommended gutters
and leaders to drywells to contain the storm water runoff.
The Trustees on their last and most recent inspection, on
May 11th, included in the notes to require a 25-foot
non-disturbance buffer from the top of the bluff, with an
additional 25-foot non-turf buffer landward of that, and a
split-rail fence to delineate the non-turf buffer.
Is there anyone here to speak to this application?
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson, Suffolk Environmental Consulting
for the applicant 470 Lloyd's Lane LLC. I appreciate meeting the
Board out in the field, I appreciate the attendance at that
meeting by Joseph Fischetti, also in attendance tonight, to
answer any questions you may have.
It's my understanding we have reached a meeting of the
minds on how to approach the situation. The erection of the
fence at 50-feet from the bluff edge, is something that is
acceptable to us, and I'm here to answer any questions you may
have.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Any else wish to speak to this application?
(Negative response).
Questions or comments from the Board?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I think based on the numerous field
inspection we made, the fence at 50 feet is very protective of
the property. We might stipulate just for clarification in no
case should there be -- it should be at least a minimum, with the
50 foot, that at least the area seaward of that should be
maintained as non-turf or non-disturbance. We should probably
get a clarification just for the sake of--
MR. ANDERSON: I think the discussion was that the first 25-feet
from the top of the bluff would be non-disturbance. And the
second, we don't have any plans with the second, but the second
25 feet be non-turf. Meaning that the if the applicant had
landscaping plans of a non-turf nature desired in that area they
could bring that to the Board in a subsequent amendment.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I think that's very acceptable. Also we have
been noting on a number of inspections that we had previously
granted approvals to individuals that the non-disturbance area
to be maintained so that would be free of trees such as black
locust which might lodge and cause the bluff failure. So a
reasonable maintenance of the non-disturbance area to prevent
excessively tall vegetation is sometimes a good idea. We know
this area has been subject to problems. I don't know if the
Board has an issue with it, but if the vegetation in the
non-disturbance area, if it was pruned or maintained at a height
to not exceed four to five feet and that way it would not be a
case where we are promoting potential loss of the bluff in the
future by large invasive trees like black locusts particularly
are and fall off the edge and you start an erosion process.
MR. ANDERSON: I agree with that. And that will be reflected in
the Minutes, as I see the stenographer is here.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: It will be reflected in the Minutes but not in a
Board of Trustees 32 May 18, 2016
subsequent motion.
MR. ANDERSON: I think what is being discussed is that it leaves
the door open for a future amendment if it's needed. I think
that's where we are going with this.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Okay, hearing no further questions or comments,
I make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion made and seconded. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I make a motion to approve this application with
the requirement that there be a 25-foot non-disturbance buffer
from the top of the bluff, with an additional second 25-foot
non-turf buffer landward of that, and a split-rail fence to
delineate that border of the non-turf buffer.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion has been made and seconded. All in
favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, very much.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Number six, Suffolk Environmental Consulting on
behalf of DAVID & LINDSAY LEVIN request a Wetland Permit to
conduct construction activity within 100'from top of bluff for
the construction of a 53'x20.4' (1,492sq.ft.)two-story dwelling
with a 10'x20' (200sq.ft.) exterior storage space, a 20.4'x39.0'
(648sq.ft.) attached porch, a 24'x24' (612sq.ft.) attached
carport, and a 572sq.ft. attached wood deck; install a sanitary
system landward of dwelling; and to re-vegetate a 50'wide area
along the landward edge of the top of bluff using various types
of native vegetation.
Located: 29821 Main Road, Orient. SCTM# 1000-14-2-1.9
The LWRP has found this to be consistent.
The CAC has resolved to support.
And on 5/11/16, all Trustees conducted an inspection. The
planting plan was okay. Is there anybody here on behalf of the
applicant?
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson, Suffolk Environmental Consulting
for the applicant, the Levin's. I don't think I have anything
further to add, but I'm here to answer any questions you may
have.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Anybody else here to speak on behalf of
applicant and/or-- nope. Okay, any thoughts from the Board?
(Negative response).
I'll make a motion,to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion made. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Motion to approve the application that is
deemed consistent under the LWRP.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second.
Board of Trustees 33 May 18, 2016
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, very much.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Number seven, Suffolk Environmental
Consulting on behalf of E. G. STEIN FAMILY TRUST, do DAVID
EDELSTEIN & LIBBY GOLDSTEIN request a Wetland Permit to
construct a 37'x50' (1,850sq.ft.)two-story dwelling with a
24'x24'(576sq.ft.)attached garage and a 12'x62'(895sq.ft.)
attached deck; install a septic system on landward side of
dwelling; connect to public water; install a 1,890sq.ft. gravel
driveway; and install a system of drywells to contain storm-water
runoff. Located: 4145 Wells Road, Peconic. SCTM# 1000-86-2-12.6
The LWRP found this consistent, with the stipulation that
it require a 15-foot plus vegetated non-turf buffer which
includes the existing trees be established landward of the
wetlands. Maintenance activities and access to the waters should
be outlined.
The CAC resolved to support this application.
The Trustees did a field inspection on May 11th, we noted
there should be a 30 foot non-disturbance buffer, the plans
needed to depict a silt fence, and there was some dead trees in
a non-disturbance area, that would be okay to remove the dead
trees.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak regarding this
application?
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson, Suffolk Environmental Consulting.
The first point of the 30-foot buffer, I think that's
reasonable. I think there should be an opportunity to manage it.
So it should be left open in case we have incursions of invasive
species, which we are seeing already, poison ivy and the like,
and we should have the ability to come back before this Board to
sufficient, reasonable conservation supported activities within
that buffer area. So the 30 feet is not objectionable. But we
want the ability if the need arises to manage that, with the
approval of the Board. Obviously removal, you see the dead,
toppled tree in the background of the photo is something that
would be removed from the site.
You should also know that there was a dock facility that
was previously approved by this Board in this area in 2003. That
permit has since expired. I have been asked to look into,
looking into whether a dock could be constructed on this
property. We ordered a hydrographic survey of the water to
determine where best a dock might be located. And the reason why
I mention this is because the access delineated to the shoreline
will likely be an access to where the dock is, and I simply
don't know where that would be, speaking with you today. So I
would ask that not be a condition. But a limitation of a
four-foot path is something that is typical for this Board and I
would suggest we could leave that for what it is. Because that
would be consistent with other requirements I have known this
Board of Trustees 34 May 18, 2016
Board to make in other projects. Other than that we intend to
fully comply with the town's storm water drainage'standards, and
that will include the approval, we'll hire an engineer who will
certify and construct a plan that will receive the approval from
the engineer prior to any construction. That plan will
incorporate any silt fence, hay bales, drainage structures,
appropriately engineered for the site. Thank you.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Is there anyone else here who wishes to speak
on this application?
(No response).
Any comments from the Board?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It seems like a pretty straightforward
application and I think what is being offered sounds reasonable.
An allowance for a four-foot wide path to access the water
itself and/or potentially future.dock is reasonable.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: I'll make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: I'll make a motion to approve this
application with the stipulation that a four-foot wide access
path be allowed to the water or a future dock, and if there is
any activity to remove invasive species in that 30-foot
non-disturbance buffer, to come get a permit prior to any activity.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion has'been made and seconded. And for
clarification that there be the 30-foot non-turf buffer.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, very much.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Can we have a five-minute break.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: I'll second that.
(After a recess, these proceedings continue as follows).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We are back on the record.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Number eight, Michael Kimack on behalf of
GEORGE KATSAMANIS requests a Wetland Permit to remove vegetation
and four(4)trees of varying calipers in area from top of bank
to prosed bulkhead; remove existing wood walkway from end of
existing concrete walkway to proposed bulkhead location;
construct±138' long bulkhead with two (2)±15' returns, for a
total of±168' at 10.2' elevation; add fill landward of new
bulkhead to grade with ±375 cubic yards of clean sand; install
and subsequently maintain a 10'wide non-turf buffer along the
landward edge of the bulkhead; construct a 3'6"wide by±10'
long bluestone walkway from end of concrete walkway to bulkhead;
construct ACQ wood staircase with composite railings from
bulkhead to remaining walkway. Located: 1025 Gull Pond Lane,
Greenport. SCTM# 1000-35-4-28.40
The LWRP coordinator found this to be inconsistent. The
Board of Trustees 35 May 18, 2016
proposed action does not comply with policy 6.3 protect and
restore tidal and freshwater wetlands. Specifically, new
bulkheads in creeks and bays are prohibited unless the operation
involves construction of a low sill bulkhead. The action is
proposed in Fordham Canal, part of Gull Pond Inlet, which is a
creek by definition. In the event the action is approved,
clarify why the bank would be cleared of all vegetation.
The CAC resolved not to support the application. The CAC
does not support hardening of the shoreline in this area and
recommends stabilizing the bank, re-grading and planting native
species. There is also concern about the dock, which we actually
did look up and is permitted.
Okay, we went out on field inspection May 11th. All were
present. We discussed the bank and the vegetation in the LWRP
inconsistencies, basically.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak regarding this
application?
MR. KIMACK: Michael Kimack, on behalf of the applicant.
We proposed to do an amendment to our application which I
believe you should have received copies thereof. I submitted them.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We received them at our work session. We did
receive them.
MR. KIMACK: Okay. Basically the amendment is to be in
conformance 275-11(v)(h), which basically requires if you are
going to do any work you have to have a low sill bulkhead as
part of the operation thereof. It was recommended the last time
that in place of the vinyl bulkhead at that particular time,
which was violative of 275-11, that we put gabion, which is
basically, which is a gabion retaining wall in its place. You can
call it a bulkhead, you can call it a retaining wall, you can
call it a gabion. But it was essentially in the same location
and then backfilled behind it.
My client looked into it and he thought that the gabion in
and of itself would be something that would attract live
vegetation and marine life, that would cause some kind of border
for the future. But in any event, the way that this proposal
is, it has a low sill bulkhead, and has Spartina behind it, and
then it has a retaining wall, which rather than the gabion,
which you had recommended we propose to do it in vinyl. And I
believe this is in conformance with 275-11(v)(h).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I don't really wish to debate you from the
Chair. I'll let Nick continue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If have you something to say, go ahead.
If there are other comments from the Board.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: This really does not comport with what we
have seen in practice. If you had a low sill bulkhead is one
thing, if it's constructed to the standard, but the upper
section that you are calling a retaining wall, for practical
purposes would have the high tide and all storm tides with the
water at its feet, typically the retaining section this usually,
clearly, exhibits to be a retaining wall, is clearly landward of
Board of Trustees 36 May 18, 2016
that. And it would seem to be in question that there is a
discretionary decision for the Board to make that we would
probably need to see this both on the survey and be staked. So
_ we need to see the seaward limit of the low sill bulkhead and
seaward-most limit of what you are calling the retaining wall,
and revisit it, because the slopes are pretty broad here and I
believe the Board and the CAC were thinking pretty much along
the same lines that, and I think at least as far as general
practices, we usually see retaining walls eight to ten feet
landward, eight to ten feet landward of ordinary high water
mark. So we would be up more substantially.
MR. KIMACK: If it was eight to ten feet it would be at the
existing eroded bank. Pretty close.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes. And that way certainly the construction
of it in any case is not going to be wonderful for some of the
existing Baccharus, but the large area that would be capable of
being re-planted or would naturally vegetate would far surpass
what would be lost during construction of a retaining wall at
that level.
MR. KIMACK: Then can I ask for a clarification. At the last meeting
you had asked in place of where I had placed the bulkhead, that
we could do a gabion, and a gabion would be vertical and it
would be backfill behind it. So I fail to see how that's any
different--
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We didn't indicate the placement of it. I
Think, there again, if we were going to Hesco baskets or gabion,
it probably would at least based on the practice we have seen,
it would have been tucked very close to the escarpment where
it's fallen away.
MR. KIMACK: So what you are looking for is the low sill
obviously is acceptable under that particular code, but in
essence what you are looking for is the gabion or any
retaining wall be essentially at the top of the bank?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well,just for clarification, by"gabion" you
are talking,about what on your diagram?
MR. KIMACK: Wire baskets. Not on my basket. I'm not recommending
gabions in this drawing
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: His question related to the type of
construction where the stones are in the baskets called gabion
baskets.
MR. KIMACK: No;that's what we talked about last time. .
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We talked about the possibility of either
Hesco baskets or--
MR. KIMACK: And correct, we did not talk about placement of the
gabions per se. Because the assumption that, because at the time
we talked about it in place of what I was proposing gabions
would be acceptable.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: That's a misunderstanding then because that's
not what we intended.
MR. KIMACK: Is there any room for compromise where it's located
at the top of the bank?
Board of Trustees 37 May 18, 2016
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't think we are looking to put in a
bulkhead or retaining wall acting as a bulkhead, based off of our
code.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER:if, in past practice, what we have done is
typically in cases where the LWRP has come back with a similar
report and the code prohibits new bulkheads on the bays, we
typically actually march it back to that line of vegetation.
And many cases we have upland vegetation and other sites we've
had, you have beach and then you have typical emergent
vegetation of like Cape American beach grass, or any of the
brushes, has typically been there. So I think that is in keeping
with what we generally have been looking at. The low sill
bulkhead, if it's in the construction standards of DEC, we
accept that. It was unusual, though, the proposed low sill
bulkhead you were placing stone material on it between there and
what you had proposed as a retaining wall, I'm not sure we have
seen that. Typically, we see the low sill bulkheads having native
soils or soils that are developed through the construction of
the bulkhead itself placed behind it but without any stone or
other materials.
MR. KIMACK: I think the stone was meant really to prevent an
erosive factor in order to allow Spartina to grow.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, as opposed to have scouring out,
boatwash, whatever.
MR. KIMACK: Essentially. So having been shot down on this one,
I'll come back with an amended proposal. But I do suggest that
275-11(v)(h)then is somewhat non-clarified. It may be clarified
by case law but not clarified by definitive language. Because it
did say low sill as part of the operation. It didn't say you
could put another gabion there behind it. But, and basically I
didn't see in any of the language where it said that the
retaining wall had to be at the top of the hill or had to be so
far, because once it gets past becoming a retaining wall and if
it's above the high water mark, it's not subject to that, it
should be able to function as a retaining wall.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, I think we are all listening. You
know, because there is not clearly defined by code and it ends
up being discretionary. At what point does a bulkhead become a
retaining wall is the essential question. If it were you were to
go back to the owners and you are reformulating plans, I mean it
still can be revisited if you thought there was a point of
compromise that is substantially retaining wall. But I can't
tell you what that might be. The key to this --
MR. KIMACK: We've only got ten feet to play with here. It's not
a lot.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: But at low tide it looks to be more than
that. At low low it looks to be more than that.
MR. KIMACK: At low low it is more than that, basically. There is
no question about that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: As far as cost savings --
MR. KIMACK: But I was looking at the high tide line, basically.
Board of Trustees 38 May 18, 2016
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The thing is the construction you propose,
which we are certainly not keen on, which you acknowledge, is
very expensive. But you are essentially putting two bulkheads,
essentially creating two bulkheads on the property.
MR. KIMACK: Yes. The intent was try to reach a compromise
between the code and also his requirement to try to get some
additional distance between his existing home and the erosive
top of the bank, which is slowly but surely over a period of
time gotten closer and closer. I-think from that one corner of
the house you might have noticed on the north side there, it's
probably 14 or 15 or 16 feet away. It's not very far. So the
hope here was to be able gain some of that back and be also in
conformance with 2711(v)(h).
MR. MCGREEVEY: What would the Trustees recommend to the
applicant? I hear different terms, short sill, retaining wall.
What would the Trustees recommend for this site?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We actually, it's up to the applicant to try
to come up with a plan certain. We keyed this pretty much to the
code definition of retaining wall or a low sill bulkhead or a
re-vetting type structure that does not create a hard face that
which is defined as bulkhead. In other words we are leaving it
open to all options other than a bulkhead. And a bulkhead is
anything that gets its feet wet on a regular basis.
,MR. MCGREEVEY: Does the CAC recommendation have any significance
here, stabilizing the bank by cutting back the slope, re-grading
and planting native species, would that fit into the picture?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It does in many cases. It would be something
the applicant could consider.
MR. MCGREEVEY: Specific to this site.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Given the site,it's something the
applicant could consider. Thematically, the applicant has been
trying to keep as much upland in play and usable yard space as
they possibly can. It's sort of trying to keep what they can. So
it's difficult to doing the cutbacks and meet, serve both
masters. And that's where the art of the submission comes in.
MR. KIMACK: I mean, the only thing I could look at and suggest
is I could talk to him about pulling the retaining wall back so
it doesn't have wet feet. Right now it's right at the wet foot
line. And it's probably, approximately eleven to 12 feet from
the top of the bank. I mean I could conceivably pull it so it's
two feet above the high water line.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Anyhow, we'll revisit it. If you need
additional onsite discussion during monthly field surveys, we
could possibly continue to have that discussion, if you want to
do some tentative staking and --
MR. KIMACK: Well, as long as you can suggest that you are not
totally opposed to the possibility of pulling it up so it
actually functions more as a retaining wall and not as a direct
bulkhead, basically.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We'd have to consider that. We would have to
consider that the Board deem some alternative as a retaining wall.
Board of Trustees 39 May 18, 2016
MR. KIMACK: I've learned from long practice that boards won't
tell you what they can do, they'll tell you that what they can't
do. Believe me, it's been 35 years of that. So I'm respectful of
your position on that. But as long as is there the possibility
that we may be able to pull it up essentially and gain some
property, not all, but basically keep the foot dry by maybe
moving it up two feet, I may talk to my client about that. Half
a loaf is better than none. In he still wants to go through that
expense and if it acceptable to you and it meets the code
requirement.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't want to commit to a foot number by any
means.
MR. KIMACK: No, no, I'm not asking you to do that. All I can do
is look at your faces and to the best of my ability decide
whether it's possibility. And that's after the recess. Thank
you, gentleman.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make a motion to table this hearing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Is there a second?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: En-Consultants on behalf of FARLEY FINE
ARTS, LLC requests a Wetland Permit to remove existing
non-native, invasive species (e.g. Japanese knotweed), and
establish additional native plantings (e.g. Cape American beach
grass and groundsel bush), on naturally vegetated embankment
landward of existing concrete seawall while maintaining existing
native trees and shrubs for the purpose of enhancing the density
and diversity of vegetation occurring on the embankment and
increasing the soil stability and natural erosion control
capacity of the embankment. Located: 7940 Indian Neck Road,
Peconic. SCTM# 1000-86-7-7.2
This project has been deemed consistent by the LWRP.
The CAC voted to support this application.
Trustee Krupski performed the field inspection and it was
noted during the course of our work session it seemed very
straightforward. Is there anyone here to speak to this
application?
MR. HERRMANN: Good evening. Rob Herrmann of En-Consultants on
behalf of the applicant. This is pretty straightforward. This
is one of these sort of small bay bluffs, next to a site that we
worked on together about a year or so ago. There is some
invasive vegetation on the slope and so the project that is in
front of you is designed to maintain the existing natives on the
slope such as bayberry or cedars, but then removing the
invasives like the knotweed or any vines and replacing them with
additional native vegetation.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Are there any questions? It's pretty
straightforward. Anyone else wish to speak to this application?
(Negative response).
Board of Trustees 40 May 18, 2016
Given the fact you have Japanese knotweed, it's pretty noxious,
I'm thinking it may be advisable, much like phragmites, to
provide a ten-year maintenance because it may want to re --seed
itself. Obviously they are doing the right thing here. Allow for
ten-year maintenance for removal of invasives. Knotweed might be
good for soil stabilization. Honeybee has a lot of benefits. But
it's not considered a good customer.
MR. HERRMANN: That would be great.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Any additional comments?
(Negative response).
Hearing none, I'll make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion to approve this application as
submitted with the allowance for a ten-year maintenance program
to remove invasive vegetation.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number eleven, En-Consultants in behalf of LISTA
M. CANNON requests aWetland Permit to remove existing fixed
dock and construct new docking facility with water and electric
consisting of a 4'x22'fixed timber catwalk; 3'x14' hinged ramp;
and a 6'x20' floating dock in an "L" configuration secured by
two (2) 8" diameter float piles. Located: 725 Arshamomaque
Avenue, Southold. SCTM# 1000-66-3-2
The LWRP coordinator found this to be consistent.
The CAC resolved to support the application requesting that
it be, the.dock be dark sky compliant; no pressure treated wood
on the pilings, which means plankings. No pressure treated
planking; and the size and description of the boat should be on
the plan.
The Trustees did a field inspection on May 11th.'All were
present. And in the notes noted this was a straightforward
application.
Is there anyone here to speak to this application?
MR. HERRMANN: Yes. Again, Rob Herrmann of En-Consultants on
behalf of the applicant. The Board just treated this property
about a month or so ago for reconstruction of a dwelling. As
you can see in the photo there, there is a rather large fixed
dock there now that is a dilapidated condition, and the proposal
is install a dock very similar to the one to the north, which
was permitted by the,Trustees a number'of years ago for that
adjoining property. Otherwise it is pretty straightforward. It
should be an improvement as far as the dockage for the site goes
both for the homeowner and for the town.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Could you speak to the issue of it being dark
sky compliant.
MR. HERRMANN: Yes, honestly I'm not familiar with the idea of
Board of Trustees 41 May 18, 2016
how the dock would be affected by the dark sky rules other than
I assume that they would not want any light on the dock shining
out over the creek or up into the air. So all I would say is
that the applicant would of course agree to comply with those
regulations. I have not heard of them before in connection with
docks but I don't know why they would have a problem complying
with that.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Anyone else wish to speak-to this application?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: So they are running electric to the dock,
this would be done in connection with the house construction
then?
MR. HERRMANN: Probably. What I have been doing with these docks,
only because a couple of times a couple of years ago if we
didn't include the water and electricity and then someone went
ahead and did that, they were not in compliance with the permit.
So honestly on some of these, all these people may not have the
intention to connect water or electricity but we do it to try to
make sure they are covered by the permit if they do that, unless
the Board has a specific objection in a specific case.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: There seems to be some consideration in
talking with the Building administrator now because of extending
electricity to marine waters to conduct electricity so easily
that it would be wise that the Board require building permits
which would then require electrical inspection as part of it. So
I'm thinking in a case like this where we know the house is
slated for construction, that we might consider requiring the
electric be done as part of the building electrical. They could
probably get their electrical code requirements by doing the
electrical during house construction, you know, run the wires
down. That is just a thought. We are concerned about creating
hazardous environments going through dock approvals given what
is going on in the world.
MR. HERRMANN: It makes sense, and I never have been sure how
homeowners are supposed to deal with that, because of course the
Building Department takes no regulatory authority over the docks
and couldn't even if they wanted to, but yet if you are running
electric or something connected to the building --
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It's out there, we are starting to deal with
it. Maybe we need some interdepartmental discussion on it. But
in this case it probably would be no harm, no foul.
MR. HERRMANN: Okay. So if electric is installed, then it should
be, they should obtain a building permit, basically.
TRUSTEE-BREDEMEYER: At part of the building permit.
MR. HERRMANN: Okay.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Any other questions or comments from the Board?
MR. KIELY: I want to speak on that. Generally speaking, the
Building Department asks for electrical certification. So, we
don't do our own inspections.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: No, I understand that. I,think he
understands that. But we also don't send our dock permits over
there if we do electrical.
Board of Trustees 42 May 18, 2016
MR. KIELY: No, not--that it would be part and parcel, I'm just
saying what is done in practice.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Right, in practice, the electrical
inspection is done by an underwriter inspector and they take
the certificate on that.
MR. KIELY: So that would be part and parcel of the Building
Department.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: To be clear, we don't have to include it in our
permit, the requirement that it be up to Southold Town Code
electrical?
MR. KIELY: Again, it will be part of the permit.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: When I talked to Mike Verity he indicated,
just requested that they get the building permit.
MR. KIELY: Yes. Listen, it's belts and suspenders. You can make
it a condition just so you ensure it's not missed. That's fine.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Can we legally make it subject to getting,
guess I want to make sure, clarify. Say for example, they don't
want to run electric and the water right now, they get a
building permit, they build a house, then they want to do water
and electric. By us saying it's required for them to get the
permit, they can get a permit, a second permit, separate from
the house, see what I'm saying?
MR. HERRMANN: I have what I think is a pretty simple solution,
that the Trustees could condition it that at the time that the
Board would be looking to issue a certificate of compliance for
the Wetlands permit, if electric is in fact present at the dock,
the owner would have to produce evidence that they have approval
from the Building Department. Whether that's connected to this
building permit or that permit is sort of irrelevant. It's just
saying if you connected'electric to the dock then have you to
produce a copy of your electrical approval before you get your C of C.
MR. KIELY: All right.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: See where I'm going with that?
MR. KIELY: Yes. It just makes sense for when you fill out a
proper Building application. Is this new construction? I'm not
familiar with it.
MR. HERRMANN: It is, but as to Charles' point, I don't have any
idea whether they have --
MR. KIELY: The timing --
MR. HERRMANN: Exactly. In other words, they are not going to hold
up getting a C of 0 on the house because of running a little
light to a dock. They might want to deal with that separately.
But from your perspective I don't know why you would care as
long as they deal with it at some point before you can issue a C
of C for the dock.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Point of clarification. I don't want to beat
this into the ground. Sorry. Say for example, they build a
house, they get their permit, they are good to go. They don't
hook up to water and/or electric. Now they built the dock and
are good to go. We can't give them a permit now if, like five
years from now, after we give them the permit--
Board of Trustees 43 May 18, 2016
MR. KIELY: They need the permit first before the construct the
dock. Then they are subject to compliance. He's saying that you
guys are not going to give a C of C until the electrical
certification.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Because you requested electric and water on
this particular--
MR. HERRMANN: Correct.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Now I'm tracking you.
MR. HERRMANN: It's like anything else, I mean, and Liz can
correct me if I'm wrong. But in other instances, say we got
permit for a house and a pool, if you go out and inspect and
pool was never built but we are asking to CC out that permit,
then the Board at least in the past, when Lori was counsel,
would say, well now you have to come back to get a permit, you
know, for the pool. Because you've closed out the permit. So in
effect, if you go to close out the permit and there is no
electrical, then you don't have to worry about it. But if there
is electrical there, then you'd say it's the same, you won't
issue C of C without the covenant that is supposed to be filed.
It's just one other layer of something to be submitted before
everything is done. So either they have to show they have gotten
approval for the electric or they goofed and didn't do it, they
have to go back to the Building Department now and you can hang
them up on the C of C until that is done. Obviously if they
don't put it in, who cares; close out the permit without the
electric.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: The issue there is they don't come back to the C
of C. Well, we are overthinking this. All right, anyone else
wish to speak to this application?
(Negative response).
Hearing no further comments, I'll make a motion to close this
hearing. '
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES). _
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll make a motion to approve this application
with the stipulation that if electric is ever run to this dock
that the C of C will not be issued unless it can be demonstrated
that it was built according to--that the electric was approved
by the Building Department.
MR. KIELY: And provide electrical certification.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Via electrical certification.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion has been made and seconded. All in
favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Number 12, En-Consultants on behalf of
ELIZABETH DWYER requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4'x33'
timber stairway with one (1)4'x6' platform and one (1)4'x6'
platform with bench, leading to a 4'x6' cantilevered platform
Board of Trustees 44 May 18, 2016
with 4'x8' steps to beach. Located: 4170 Great Peconic Bay
Boulevard, Laurel. SCTM# 1000-128-4-26
The LWRP has designated this as consistent.
The CAC has resolved to support.
On 5/11/16, all Trustees were present with the exception of
Trustee Krupski. The notes in the file say straightforward, so
similar to neighbors on either side.
Is there anybody here on behalf of the applicant?
MR. HERRMANN: Yes. One last time tonight, En-Consultants, Rob
Herrmann of En-Consultants on behalf of applicant. This is
hopefully the third time is the charm for the stairway. The
Board originally issued permit#4935 for similar stairway and
beach steps in 1998 to the prior owners Joseph and Joan
Chisholm. That stairway and steps were destroyed during
Hurricane Sandy, and the Trustees issued Hurricane Sandy
emergency permit 4935(e) in June, 2013. However the Chisholm's
did not actually reconstruct the stairway before selling the
property. So the current owners are now seeking basically to
construct a very similar stairway with platforms and beach steps
in essentially the same location as both of the prior permits.
There is no electric to the stairway, so this should be easier
to approve.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: How about water?
MR. HERRMANN: No water either.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Anybody else here on behalf of the applicant or
otherwise?
(Negative response).
Any thoughts?
MS. WALLERIUS: I'm Charlotte Wallerius. The first thing I want
to make clear is I'm not here to make any kind of a protest on
Mrs. Dwyer. I would just like someone to clarify the blueprints.
I'm a little bit nervous.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: That's okay.
MS. WALLERIUS: I have the property right next door to the east.
Now, the plot line is at a one o'clock line. So we run this
way. The concern that is being brought to my attention is the
bottom platform because it's been my understanding that it's a
six-foot clearance between my new bulkhead, because as he said,
the previous owner did not put up a new bulkhead for Sandy. So
does that mean there is only six feet between the bottom
platform and my bulkhead? Which kind of protrudes out. You all
know the language, lingo, I don't. So the point is will they be
able to get machinery in there to put this platform in without
doing damage to my new bulkhead?What are the ramifications for
the sidings that are going to go down for the bulkhead? There
is no wiggle room is what I'm saying. I'm not articulate, guys.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: You actually communicated pretty well.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: What particularly-- ordinarily the
construction of stairs, they are stick built and they are hand
augured. The supports for the posts are hand augured in, and
they use either sono tubes or other means of--
Board of Trustees 45 May 18, 2016
MS. WALLERIUS: There will be a platform there, so.
' (INAUDIBLE).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Unless we want to take a recess and you can
communicate, this isn't getting on the record.
MS. WALLERIUS: Sorry. What am I supposed to be doing?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Just a break in this while you are maybe
collecting your thoughts. I have a question for Mr. Herrmann.
There appears to be a square on the plans. Is this a lower
flower bed or something?
MR. HERRMANN: There is a very, very small -- do you have any
photos taken from the beach or do you have scanned in the photos
I submitted? Or you may have them in front of you. There is a
very, very low--
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have them in front of us.
MR. HERRMANN: (Continuing) call it like a little landscaped
retaining wall, which the best I could figure out was a vestige
of the prior stairway. The current owners have no idea why it's
there. What it does is holds a little bit of the toe of the bank
back, which may have allowed some room for when the Chisholm's
had the deck there. So that square that I think you are looking
at that is sort of off to the east side of the stairs, that's
nothing that is proposed. That is just a little wall that is
there. The platform that is off the seaward side of the
bulkhead, if this were the platform and this was Mr. Wallerius'
property, you walk about 13 feet this way before you actually
hit the property line. The platform that would go in down there
would all be constructed by hand. There is no heavy machinery
associated with the project.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I think she may be confusing bulkhead
construction with stairs construction.
MR. HERRMANN: There is no bulkhead construction here. There is a
platform which will have posts that go down into the sand. But
that again, would be done by hand. There would be no physical
impact on the adjacent bulkhead whatsoever. So there is no
concern there.
And one of the reasons we stayed with the stairway in the
same location is because that was the area that was previously
disturbed, so we wanted to stay basically within the area that
had already been disturbed by the prior stairwell.
So there should be no people or equipment or anything on
your property for any reason at all.
TRUSTEE'BREDEMEYER: Could we stipulate it be --
MS. WALLERIUS: I'm being advised, obviously, because I'm here by
myself, that perhaps if the secondary, the last platform, you
are almost giving the property line no wiggle room. I mean.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: You have to go to the mic and really should
address the Board.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just address us with your concerns.
MS. WALLERIUS: Okay. I'm obviously being advised, and it's the
people that are advising me are in kind of the business, they
said they are not really providing you any wiggle room, you are
Board of Trustees 46 May 18, 2016
right on, there is only like six feet between where my bulkhead
comes out and there will be a platform.
MR. HERRMANN: That's not correct. The six-foot dimension that is
on the plan is the six-foot seaward extension of the platform.
Again, if you scale it, and I may stupidly have left the scale
off this. But the scale is one inch equals 40 feet. So if you
are walking along the bulkhead from the point where the existing
bulkhead, which is both the applicant's and the neighbors, where
the bulkhead intersects with the property line. This a six-foot
platform thatwill'be almost 14 feet away. So there is no way
that somebody hand-building a six-foot platform will impact the
structural engineered integrity of a bulkhead that is almost 15
feet away.
TRUSTEE,BREDEMEYER: The extension of the property line is
actually over what is probably New York State bottom land. We
are in Peconic Bay, almost, with the point--
MR. HERRMANN: Right. So just to be clear, Jay, if we were
treating this like it was a dock, there would in fact be only
six feet of separation between the corner of the platform and
the property line. But if the concern is the impact on the
bulkhead, we are not going to be out here, we are going to be in
where the bulkhead is., And where the bulkhead is lined up with
the platform is a separation.
So some other background to this is there a right-of-way on
the west side of the property, you notice there is another
staircase on this plan that is not available for use by the
owners. That is a right-of-way and a stairway that is used by
folks across the street. So the one thing that the Dwyer's are
contending with here a little bit is the fact that their beach
front is also used by others to the east of that groin. So one
of the reasons the Chisolm's originally placed the stairway
where they placed it is so that you come down the stairs, sort
of on the far east side, and then everything sort of points away
from Mrs. Wallerius' property and gets you toward the west side
of the beach that is sort of keeping the activity away from her
but also keeping it as far away as possible from what in effect
becomes almost like a communal beach to the west. But the
physical impact, there is no physical impact.
MS. WALLERIUS: No, that's not true. I've owned the house for 40
years. That's not true. I see six feet on this map.
MR. HERRMANN: That's the dimension of the platform.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Do you have anything else you would like to
say, ma'am?
MS. WALLERIUS: No. I don't know what questions really I should
be asking.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Would you like to speak on behalf of--
MR. SCHAFER: Yes. My name is Joseph Schafer and I'm just
here partaking in my own permit and to assist her in reading the
map here. I think if she has something with a larger image that
would be clearer for her to see and to depict her concern with
the property line.
Board of Trustees 47 May 18, 2016
MS. WALLERIUS: Did you see this?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We are looking at it in front of us right now.
MS. WALLERIUS: This is what nobody is understanding. I don't
mean you. The people advising me, they are saying when you come
down the stairs there will be only six feet between the
staircase and my property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think what is happening is there is a
misunderstanding. On those plans, the platform is six feet wide,
but if you actually measure from the edge of the platform to
your property, along the bulkhead, it's actually about 14 feet.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Is that correct?
MR. HERRMANN: That's correct.
MS. WALLERIUS: Then I apologize. It's small print, that's why.
MR. HERRMANN: Can I approach, for clarity.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: You can approach, ma'am, so we can get it all on
the record, and you can actually see and he can explain.
MS. WALLERIUS: You are showing 14 feet up here but I'm talking
about this is what has been brought to my attention. There is
no 14 feet here.
MR. HERRMANN: So this six foot is the depth of this platform.
May I write on this?
MS. WALLERIUS: Sure. You sent it to me.
MR. HERRMANN: So the distance, if we could white out that six
feet, the distance between this point and this point is about 13
feet. Now, the distance between this point and this point is
only six feet. But that has nothing to do with anything because
that is not where your bulkhead is. In other words, you stated
that your concern is whether the construction of this stairway
would physically impact your bulkhead. So the relevant--
MS. WALLERIUS: But my advisors are also telling me that six feet
is not much between the property lines. We are talking down
here.
MR. HERRMANN: But of what consequence is the position of the
angle of this property line to the use of the property?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: At this point, it just, to be exacting, at
the point next to your, that's an extension of your property
line that is actually out into the bay, maybe is it possible we
can move this structure over like two feet? A small amount?
MS. WALLERIUS: What I'm being advised, in quotes, to use what
they're saying, they are giving you no wiggle room.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: The question I guess we have to pose to you is
what does "no wiggle room" mean? In terms of what?
MS. WALLERIUS: If any work has to be done, if they have to bring --
TRUSTEE SANDERS: It's already been delineated that all work will
be by hand and there is no threat-- all threats to your
property have been mitigated.
MS. WALLERIUS: I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Absolutely. But there is really no concern. I
think those who have advised you have advised you in a manner
that is confusing. So in essence there is no damage or harm or
danger to your property.
Board of Trustees 48 May 18, 2016
MS. WALLERIUS: Okay, that's all I really need to hear from all
of you. And thank you for listening to me.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. Absolutely, we can rarely say that but I
think we can with this.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: You're welcome.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Any other thoughts from anyone else?
(Negative response).
I make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I make a motion to approve this application
as it is submitted, noting it is deemed consistent under the
LWRP.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Number 13, Jeffrey Patanjo on behalf of
DWYER/BARTH REVOCABLE FAMILY TRUST, do LAUREL PHELAN request a
Wetland Permit to remove and replace in-place 63 linear feet of
deteriorated bulkhead with new vinyl bulkhead, a 26 linear foot
return, and a 33 linear foot return; and to raise the height an
additional 18"from existing top cap elevation. Located: 2625
Bay Shore Road, Greenport. SCTM# 1000-53-4-21
The LWRP deemed this to,be consistent.
The CAC resolved to support the application with the
condition the non-turf buffer is increased to a minimum of ten
feet. And the CAC questioned the need for raising the elevation
of the bulkhead 18 inches.
The Trustees did a field inspection on May 11th and we
noted that top cap elevation should be elevated 12 inches but
not 18, so that in the future if the neighbor wants to elevate
their bulkhead they can go up 18 inches to make it consistent.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak regarding this
application?
MR. PATANJO: Jeffrey Patanjo on behalf of the applicant. I
currently have a DEC permit, which I received last week. And DEC
does allow and it is standard practice for them to approve
raising the bulkhead top cap elevation 18 inches. I would like
to stick with that if it's agreeable by the Board. But
otherwise this is remove and replace existing bulkhead, same
location, and a straightforward project.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The problem is if the neighbor tries to
match it, they'll be having to ask for two feet, which won't be
granted. So that is why we felt by granting a one-foot that
allows the neighbor in kind to get an 18-inch, which is current
practice. So everyone would be meeting the forces of Peconic
Bay with the same amount of bulkhead face.
MR. PATANJO: I was advised by counsel to agree to 12 inches.
Whatever you want, either way we are good.
Board of Trustees 49 May 18, 2016
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We are, there is some issue with trying
to --
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just for the future, everything will tie in
perfectly.
MR. PATANJO: That's fine.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone else here who wishes to speak regarding
this application?
(Negative response).
If not, I make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make a motion to approve this application
with the condition of 12-inch additional elevation. Not the 18.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion made and second. Just as a point of
clarification, therefore it would be no higher than 18 inches
above the current neighbor's bulkhead, the neighbor to the
north. It will be no higher than 18 inches above the neighbor to
the north.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Correct. Yes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion made and seconded, with
clarification. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Number 14, Jeffrey Patanjo on behalf of
SLATFIELD INVESTMENTS, LLC, do LESLIE BUTTERFIELD requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a 4'x53'fixed pier with thru-flow
decking over entire surface; a 3'x12' aluminum ramp; and a
6'x20' floating dock using untreated decking supported by four
(4) 10" diameter CCA piles, and cross-bracing holding the float
a minimum of 30"above sand bottom at all times; reconstruct
existing 9'x15' deck attached to seaward side of existing
one-story dwelling in-place; remove platform and stairs on east
side of deck and construct 9'x8' stairways (overall dimensions)
on south side of reconstructed deck; and reconstruct existing
3.75'x5'front covered porch in-place. Located: 520 Oak Street,
Cutchogue. SCTM# 1000-136-1-45
The LWRP deemed this inconsistent. And I have a couple of
pages of things to read through here. I'll try to make it as
brief as possible.
Whether or not the dock will cause degradation of surface
water quality and natural resources; the mean low water at
terminus is at zero feet and is inadequate to support most
motorized vessels and keeled vessels due to draft; further, due
to the,inadequate water depths, operation of motorized vessel to
and from the dock could result in bottom scarring and increased
turbidity in the water column, impacting marine life in the
water body; it is recommended that the Board clarify the size
and type of the vessel and tidal range; whether the dock will
cause habitat fragmentation and loss of significant coastal fish
Board of Trustees 50 May 18, 2016
and wildlife habitat; the proposed action is located within the
DEC critical environmental area; the proposed construction
practices of the dock have not been identified; it is
recommended that the applicant identify the proposed
construction practices; activities during dock construction can
destroy vegetation either above or below the tide line by
pulling them from the substrate or destroying their root system:
the peat beds underlying salt marshes can be compacted due to
.improper use of heavy equipment. It is recommended that the
Board clarify the methods of construction.
As indicated above, the proposed action is located within a
New York State DEC Critical Environmental Area. The applicant
enjoys access to public waters via waterfront property. The
proposal would place a private dock short-term public waters and
on public bottom lands. Placement of a dock structure into
public waters does not meet this policy. To lessen,the
permanent reduction of use of public water lands, a temporary
vessel mooring is recommended. The proposed action is for the
construction of a private dock located within a DEC listed
environmental area. Shallow depth of the creek limit the use of
the creek by motorized vessels. The creek does and will support
manual powered personal recreational vessels such as kayaks, row
boats, et cetera with shallow draft. The proposed vessel has not
been identified.
Okay, the CAC resolved to support this application. And
with the condition that gutters leaders and drywells are
installed to contain stormwater runoff from the dwelling and
the patio. And the piling out of the water is removed.
The Trustees inspected this on 5/11. All were present.
Some of the comments made were the dock itself is straight
forward build. Ten-inch pilings might be a little large given
the area. And also there is a restriction along the shore, so
the possibility of some sort of alternative to allow people
clamming or crabbing'to walk along the shore to get over the
dock or under dock, something along those lines. Is there anyone
here who wishes to speak to this application?
MR. PATANJO: Jeffrey Patanjo, on behalf of the applicant. There
was a bunch of things, so I'll try to remember them. Pile size,
it was indicated wrong in the project description. The project
plans wehave eight-inch diameter piles for the floating dock .
and six-inch diameter piles for the fixed pier. The whole
project as far as the docks construction is going to be very,
very similar to the one as you see all the way to the left of
the photograph which was approved last year, whichwasa brand
new dock, same exact dimensions, same alignment, same floating
dock, same ramp. It was pretty much a twin of that one. I
actually did one on Oak Street two years ago, which was a brand
new dock right on the bend. So there is a standard here for
allowing new docks, as you can see.
The projection of the dock, it is into water depth as I
show here on the survey, at mean low tide. And I took those
Board of Trustees 51 May 18, 2016
water depths myself. So we have 12 inches approximately at the
end of the pier, the fixed pier, and at the floater we have 19
to 20 inches. We are also providing chocks for the bottom, to
keep it off the bottom for 30 inches at mean low water. The boat
size, I do not know, the client is in England or something, so I
don't know who they are, I never talked to them. As far as
access on the beach, there is no access now per se. If you have
been there, did you go down the bluff?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes. I guess the question was, it was not
clear, was the catwalk emanating from the top, from the grade
level and before the stairs, or is it--
MR. PATANJO: My plan was to tie it into the stairs to keep it 30
inches above the wetland.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The neighboring dock terminated a little bit
above or at mean high water, but there was still walking space
to traverse very close to the foreshore. We were concerned with
this coming directly out from the steps would not allow someone
looking to walk along the foreshore. They would have to be
-rather short to get under. In the past we would stipulate stairs
up and over where it's particularly hard bottom.
MR. PATANJO: I'm perfectly agreeable with stairs up and over. It
is wetlands there. That's all I'm letting you know. We can put
in stairs, carefully, but you'll be walking through, but we'll
put them in.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It was pretty sandy in that region. We don't
want to trample delicate wetland. This is one of those balancing acts.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I mean not being specific here, but there is a
sandy strip you could if you are walking along picking up.
MR. PATANJO: Yes, we can absolutely tuck in close to the
existing stairs. We can have my ramp going, the pier, tying into
the stairs and then up close we can do the stairs up just tight
to the stairway.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: I just have one question on the description,
it says CCA pilings
MR. PATANJO: Yes,just the pilings would be CCA.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else here that wishes to speak
to this application?
MS. BROWN: I'm Susan Brown, from Cutchogue. I know we are only
people left. We live a few doors down from this location. We
currently have a catwalk which is in dire need of repair, so we
dame tonight to see what you said about this one. We never
dreamed we would be the last people here. So we are just
curious. There is a number of new docks has been mentioned,
have been constructed in the last couple of years, which has
given us a little bit of hope that we can do something with our
existing one. Just to clarify, if you were wondering who we
were.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We could address the inconsistency by
maintaining public access to the foreshore. And I always like
to note that private dock does not always diminish public access
because net property owners in town having access to the waters
Board of Trustees 52 May 18, 2016
provides opportunities for the residents and their guests and
people throughout the world would love to have the kind of
access we have that is not a sharp shell bank or infested with
critters that would hurt you. So you could fashion bringing this
into consistency with notions of public access.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And I also think in terms of destroying the
bottom, that was addressed with the chocking, I would think.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Absolutely. And minimizing the process.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:'Yes. And then does anyone have anything to say
about boat length, boat size, bottom scouring? I know you were
going to point to that. I don't blame you there at all. Just in
terms of the LWRP.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Ground water pumps are a limiting factor.
People learn how to push their boats out into deeper water.
Water pump jobs are expensive. Careful seamanship doesn't have
to totally chew the bottom.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right. I mean, we do seem to have a difference
between, I mean your soundings are plenty of water to back out.
All right, any other comments from the Board?
(Negative response).
I make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make a motion to approve this application
with the stipulations that the pile size in the original
description be changed respectively to the eight-inch and
six-inch piles; that along the sandy part of the shore there is
stairs for public access to the traverse the shore; and to bring
the LWRP,into compliance, we address that with the chocking and'
with the amended water depth; and then also with the stairs, we
are not limiting public use of the area.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: And request amended plans to reflect the
stairs up and over.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:,Right. Thank you. And amended plans for the -
"stairs.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion has been made. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The last one we have is Jeffrey Patanjo on
behalf of JOSEPH SCHAFER requests a Wetland Permit to remove
existing bulkhead and replace with 100 linear feet of new vinyl
bulkhead in-place and raise the height an additional 18" above
existing grade; install 16 linear foot vinyl bulkhead returns on
both the east and west side of property; install a 200sq.ft.
deck landward of new bulkhead using untreated decking; install a
4'x4' cantilevered platform with 4'x11' (overall dimensions)
seasonal stairs to beach using untreated decking; and install
and subsequently maintain a 10'wide non-turf buffer along the
Board of Trustees 53 May 18, 2016
landward edge of the bulkhead. Located: 1030 West Lake Drive,
Southold. SCTM# 1000-90-2-3
And I wish to thank Mr. Schafer for his,kindly act of
helping an elderly lady understand the permit.
The LWRP has deemed this project to be consistent and that
a non-turf should be planted with native vegetation.
And the CAC supports the application however reserves
judgment on raising the height of the bulkhead because of no
need has been shown.
And Trustees did a field inspection on May 11th, 2016. We
did voice a concern based on field inspection to keep the same
elevation since we are unaware of having raised neighboring '
bulkheads the 18 inches, and we were not, it was not evident
that need was established since the house benefits from a rock
revetting structure that surrounds that house on the seaward
side.
Is there anyone here that wishes to speak on behalf of this
application?
MR. SCHAFER: Yes. I'm Joe Schafer, the homeowner. So over the
past few months I have taken an interest in the process of
replacing a bulkhead and attended a forum at the Cutchogue
Library by Bennett Nadiah &Associates and I believe one or two
of the gentlemen here on the Board of Trustees may have attended
for a short period of time. In doing my research I have had six
engineers come to my home and examine everything, and they all
asked me why don't you raise it 18 inches. I said, well, why
would I, because I thought everything was okay, and they all
indicated that my neighbors groins that go out into the water
are completely gone on the west side of my home facing the
water. And they had pointed out your neighbor to your right,
because you have a little gap between where your bulkhead wall
goes and theirs starts. The groin, if you change that spot, will
come up short and will cause erosion, number one. And, number
two, it would add probably a little bit of a hardship on your
neighbor who, because then they would have to have their
bulkhead in alignment to that. So they all kind of said the same
thing. So when I finally got to the point of attending this
meeting and listening to who I thought were some of the best
professionals and clear minded people who had an idea how to
construct a bulkhead, and mind you I know that the town is in
the process of putting together some kind of a permit process to
really have a license, excuse me, as you will, for installing
it. In other words your landscapers doing your landscaping in
the summer, in the winter all of a sudden they are installing
bulkheads. So I took it upon myself to put more science into it
and I actually have been recording over a hundred hours of the
water hitting, and I could see now the reason why they suggested
raising it 18 inches.
Now, my home is on pilings, I bought it about three years
ago and everything asked of me through positive suggestion with
the Town consulting with FEMA and the state I have done. And I
Board of Trustees 54 May 18, 2016
invite all of you, if you ever want to send someone to my home
to look as an example of everything that needs up to par, feel
free to do so. But the only reason I ask for 18 inches is
because all the engineers that came to look at job suggested the
18 inches and two, suggested the returns on the side of the
home, which after I attended the meeting, I learned more about
how walls that are compromised can eat away the land behind your
wall, and since my one neighbor doesn't have any groins left at
all, and their property is probably, when you are looking toward
the water line, looking straight into it, you can see on the low
tide there is one showing up, there are two or three more that
are completely gone. They are ravaged. Just completely gone. So
those are my concerns. So you know, if you don't understand why,
the only argument I can make to you is why would all these
engineers tell me to do the exact same thing, to raise it 18
inches. There we go.
MR. PATANJO: Jeff Patanjo on behalf of the applicant. One of the
other things we had talked about in the field was mention of the
rock revetment, the rock wall. I believe, correct me if I'm
wrong, but I believe once we raise that we were going to get rid
of those rocks there? Or were you going to keep those?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Which rocks?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The rock retaining wall.
MR. SCHAFER: I have to ask my wife first. She fell in love with
it.
MR. PATANJO: Then again,just like the last action, the DEC does
approve and recommend raising all bulkhead 18 inches. I actually
sent one without raising it and they questioned it.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The interesting feature here is that the
house is on pilings. It's probably the most secure and best way
to handle, and your house is absolutely gorgeous. And finishing
with the rock revetment makes total sense. And the, it's, if all
neighbors, without all neighbors going to 18 inches, and some of
those bulkheads are already vinyl bulkheads, so their shelf life
will be considerable, if the waters are still going to be
flowing around the backs of your returns if it goes to 18
inches, and other than the possibility of some scouring, you
know, over the top, which obviously all the houses did, you
know, get, the benefit is just the sea keeping the soils behind
the bulkhead here, since the house is already secure,
establishing the need that relates to the neighbors maybe the
engineering advice you have gotten from the professionals, maybe
we need to see an engineering report that substantiates the
need. Because we have the CAC, I know it's contrary to what we
are hearing with the DEC, but going up is not always better for
a neighborhood when we are trying to have some consistency.
Maybe one of those engineers you sought out should be giving us
a report for us to consider.
MR. PATANJO: One of the things I would like to add to that, I'm
going through the same thing right now in Amityville, doing 23
end of roads bulkheads under a GOSR Grant funded by FEMA and
Board of Trustees 55 May 18, 2016
GOSR. They say, and everybody in the whole process, and
everybody who did all leg work, you need to go to the ten-year
flood. Out there it's elevation is 4.9. I'm raising bulkheads
out there three feet, two-and-a-half feet. End of road
bulkheads, either side of those, are three feet down. It doesn't
matter because you have to start somewhere.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay.
MR. SCHAFER: May I add a point to that. In being consistent
with this project, the home actually falls in three flood zones,
the worst being VE-10. So when I took this into consideration
and I presented it to the town for a building permit, I was told
because I was doing more than 50% of the assessed value of the
property, I had to raise the house. And my surveyor, John Ehlers
from Riverhead, had made the same point. He goes when you went
to replacing your bulkhead you'll probably have to raise it a
foot. So I guess in his conversation a foot being consistent to
the 18 inches.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Now at least personally, I don't know how
the other Board members are starting to come into some degree of
focus because even the discussions about rock revetments, where
we have seen the DEC design them going up to the VE-10 zone we
sort of question it because if you have a bulkhead or revetment
and you have core stone going up, if you have not protected it
to VE-10 zone, you run the risk of having a decent storm, all
the core stone tumbles down and then the water coming over the
revetment of the bulkhead scour out and then you have a bulkhead
failure. So that was pretty compelling.
MR. SCHAFER: Actually, Mr. Higgins, the engineer, who is going
to do the project, actually made that point in conversation.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: And you would be planning to plant behind it
with Cape American beach grass, like you have there presently?
MR. SCHAFER: Absolutely. I'm all for the environment.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Right. So you are going up a
foot-and-a-half that still doesn't, are you near the VE-10 zone
at that point?
MR. SCHAFER: Well, the VE-10 zone, I don't know if--
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I have a survey here. It cuts right through
the middle of the house.
MR. SCHAFER: Right. There's two more zones. And when I was
positioning the home I took into consideration the view that my
neighbor had. And there was a garage at one time I tore down to
create a view for a neighbor that didn't have one. They were
concerned. I also put in a new septic system that was above
ground. It was quite a financial impact but in the end it was
well worth it.
MR. PATANJO: This whole bulkhead as proposed is in VE-10 zone.
MR. SCHAFER: That's correct.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The whole bulkhead itself is. It's not
above it.
MR. PATANJO: Yes. This is VE-10
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All right.
Board of Trustees 56 May 18, 2016
MR. PATANJO: Everything from the middle of the house down.
MR. SCHAFER: I would also like to point out during Hurricane
Sandy, the bulkhead to my left was compromised in the sense that
it lost a lot of soil behind it. And I came back after a few
months only to see that they had replaced it. I don't know what
procedure they did to do so. And then the neighboring canal
which leads to a lake, you know, they had that dredged recently,
too, for similar reasons. So as I'm learning that process, the
only thing I'm basing my decisions on or wants are the
consistency of what everyone says would be a responsible act for
both my home, my investment but more so the environmental impact
for the community. And as well as my trips over there, I'm
always asking questions and learning. So it kind of behooves me
not to make the argument for 18 inches because I bought this
with the intentions of keeping this long-term for my wife and I
as I retire. I'm retired now, from the police department, but
guess want to call it a future investment for my children to
enjoy one day. So everyone says do it one way. That's why I'm
presenting it that way.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Point well taken. Any additional questions
from the Board? Comments?
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I want to make sure nothing happens to the
existing jetties or groins during construction.
MR. PATANJO: Okay, we can add that as a note.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Hearing no further comment, I'll make a
motion to close the hearing in this matter.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'll make a motion to approve this
application as submitted contingent on no changes or damage to
the existing groins during construction phase.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. SCHAFER: Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion to adjourn?
TRUSTEE SANDERS: I'll make a motion to adjourn.
TRUSTEE GOLDSMITH: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
Respectfully submitted by,
e9irtA 11fr. 4
John M. Bredemeyer III, President
Board of Trustees