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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1976 FROM: Assessor TO: Board of Assessment Review RE: TRANSMITTAL OF GRIEVANCE FORMS (complaints) DATE: Q 9 7 This is to certify that the tentative assessment roll for the Town of �Sy��� & , was prepared by the Office of the Town Assessor on As of the public declaration of the tentative roll for the tax year 19X/2/, the office of the Town Assessor has not, in accordance with the State Laws, permitted or allowed any amendment to the assessment roll which increases, decreases or amends assessments . Also, as of the public date of the tentative roll, the Assessor' s Office has acted in a custodial way in accurately keeping all grievance or complaint forms which are transmitted in their entirety at this time to the Board of Assessment Review. Total number of grievance forms attached herewith Sole Assessor airman Board of Asses ors R.P.T.S.A. - 200 - 4/72 BAR-1 r FROM: Board of Assessment Review TO: Town Assessor RE: ORDER FOR CHANGE IN ASSESSMENT ROLL DATE: The Board f Assessment Review for the Town o has duly met to hear complaints or grievances on the tentative town assessment roll for the tax year 19 as prescribed by law. The Board, having duly convened, has considered each and every complaint or grievance on the assessments for the tax year indicated, as filed with this Board, as prescribed by law. A majority of the Board had determined that all of the changes indicated on the attached page (s) will be made on the assessment roll by the Town Assessor. - (BAR-2 - Part II) Total number of complaints submitted by assessor Total number of complaints received on Grievance Day - � Total number of complaints reviewed by the Board - Total number of recommended reductions in assessment Total number of- recommended increases in assessment - Total number, of grievances without a change - NOW, THEREFORE, the Board of Assessment Review hereby orders the assessor or board of assessors to make all changes in assessments as determined by the card of Assessment Review on the assessment roll of the Town o for the tax year 19C/ in conformance with this order. BAR-2 - Page 1 of 2 STATE OF NEW Y COUNTY OF ) ss : TOWN OF ) The undersigned, being duly sworn do severally depose and say that deponents are members of the Board of Assessment Review; that deponents have read the foregoing and know the contents thereof; and the matters set forth are true to the best of the deponents ' knowledge. Sworn to before me this day of tary Public JUDITH T. 80KEN ��,Q}/ _ Notary Public, State of New brk-J No. 52.0344963, Suffolk County Commission Expires March 30,, 1-a 77 Chairman Member Member Membe Member i R.P. T.S.A. - 200 ' - 4/72 BAR-2 - Page 2 of 2 7 ASSESSMENT R L - YEAR 1917 TOWN OF Complaint Last Name or Of Owner Property Assessment Assessment Grievance No-. On Roll Desc. From To ia- -i 012 c� R.P.T.S.A. - 500 - 4/7 BAR-2 - Part II FROM: Assessor TO: Board of Assessment Review RE: ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CHANGE TO ASSESSMENT ROLL - DATE: 7_4 4 This will nowledge order from the Board of Assessment Review to amend (Number of) / assessme tems in the assessment roll in the Town of for the tax year 19 Y Z This will acknowledge that the Office of the Assessor has completed all changes as ordered by the Board of Assessment Review. - Sole Town Assessor Criairm3n of the Boar of Assessors R.P .T. S .A. - 200 - 4/72 BAR-3 FROM: Boa ) of Assessment Review TO: - Town Clerk RE: REPORT - BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW - TAX YEAR 1 DATE: t Attached her ith please find for public filing in your office, the complete file covering the public hearing (s) of the Board of Assessment Review, together with changes ordered by this Board to the assessment roll, Assessors ' acknowledgment, etc. The duties of the Board of Assessment Review for the grievance pe iod covering the 19 /_ assessment roll are completed. Chairman Member Membe Me r i Member R.P. T. S.A. - 200 - 4/72 Attachment: Form BAR-1 , Parts I and II, Form BAR-3 , Form BAR-4 CC: Town Supervisor - with attachments Director, Real Property Tax Service Agency - with attachments Office of Town Assessor - with attachments Form BAR-4 FROM: Assessor TO: Board of Assessment Review RE: TRANSMITTAL OF GRIEVANCE FORMS (complaints) DATE: July 20, 1976 This is to certify that the tentative assessment roll for the Town of Southold , was prepared by the Office of the Town Assessor on July 1, 1976 As of the public declaration of the tentative roll for the tax year 19 76/ 77, the office of the Town Assessor has not, in accordance with the State Laws, permitted or allowed any amendment to the assessment roll which increases, decreases or amends assessments. Also, as of the public date of the tentative roll, the Assessor' s Office has acted in a custodial way in accurately keeping all grievance or complaint forms which are transmitted in their entirety at this time to the Board of Assessment Review. Total number of grievance forms attached herewith - Sole Assessor Chairman Board of Assessors R.P.T.S.A. - 200 - 4/72 BAR-1 FROM: Board of Assessment Review TO: Town Assessor RE: ORDER FOR CHANGE IN ASSESSME T ROLL DATE: - The Board o Assessment Review for the Town of , has duly met to hear complaints or grievances on the tentative town assessment roll for the tax year 19 / as prescribed by law. The Board, having duly convened, has considered each and every complaint or grievance on the assessments for the tax year indicated, as filed with this Board, as prescribed by law. A majority of the Board had determined that all of the changes indicated on the attached page (s) will be made on the assessment roll by the Town Assessor. (BAR-2 - Part II) Total number of complaints submitted by assessor Total number of complaints received on Grievance Day Total number of complaints reviewed by the Board - Total number of recommended reductions in assessment Total- number of- recommended increases in assessment - d Total number of grievances without a change - NOW, THEREFORE, the Board of Assessment Review hereby orders the assessor or board of assessors to make all changes in assessments as determined bythe card o Assessment Review on the ;P77, ssment roll of the Town o =or the tax year 19 in conformance with this order. BAR-2 - Page 1 of 2 STATE OF NEW JORI COUNTY OF } ss: TOWN OF ) The undersigned, being duly sworn do severally depose and say that deponents are members of the Board of Assessment Review; that deponents have read the foregoing and know the contents thereof; and the matters set forth are true to the best of the deponents ' knowledge. Sworn to before me this / day of _, 19 . (,WoVary Pu H T, BOKEN ('T y) Notary Public, State of New York No. 52.0344963, Suffolk County wipmission Expires March 30,, 177 fe . Chairman Meter Member Me er ; Member R.P.T.S.A. - 200 - 4/72 BAR-2 - Page 2 of 2 ASSESSMENT R LL - YEAR 19� TOWN OF Complaint Last Name or Of Owner Property Assessment Assessment Grievance No. Uxi�1 Desc. From To -- -/ Z42 or -A cA 500 - 4/7 FROM: Assessor TO: Board of Assessment Review RE: ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CHANGE /TO ASSESSMENT ROLL DATE: 049 fi This will acknowledge order from the Board of Assessment Review to amend (Number of) ;dassessor nt items in the assessme4 roll in the Town of for the tax year l� This will acknowledge that the Office of the Assessor has completed all changes as ordered by _ the Board of Assessment Review. Sole Town Assessor i Chairman of the Board of - Assessors R.P .T. S .A. - 200 - 4/72 BAR-3 FROM: Boar of Assessmen Review TO: �J � Town Clerk RE: RFPOIRT - BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIE TAX YEAR 19 / DATE: Attached he ewith please find for public filing in your office, the complete file covering the public hearing (s) of the Board of Assessment Review, together with changes ordered by this Board to the assessment roll, Assessors ' acknowledgment, etc. The duties of the Board f Assessment Review for the grievance p od covering the 19 , assessment roll are completed. Chairman 'ember Member Memb Member �- R. P.T.S.A. - 200 - 4/72 Attachment: Form BAR-1, Parts I and II, Form BAR-3 , Form BAR-4 CC: Town Supervisor - with attachments Director, Real Property Tax Service Agency - with attachments Office of Town Assessor - with attachments Form BAR-4 M I N U T E S GRIEVANCE DAY TOWN OF SOUTHOLD July 20, 1976 PRESENT: 1 MRS. HENRY B. LYTLE Peconic, New York THEODORE J. HEUSER Mattituck, New York ROBERT W. BROWN East Marion, New York WILLIAM J. ROBB Cutchogue, New York PATRICIA SCHWICKER Mattituck, New York ASSESSORS PRESENT: EDWARD W. FOX, Chairman MELVILLE A. KELSEY, JR. HENRY F. MOISA Grievance Day Town of Southold -2- July 20, 1976 INDEX Page # 1 Samuel J. Matassa and Olive A. Matassa . . . . . 3 # 2 James P. Kavanagh and Brian Kavanagh . . . . . . 11 # 3 Phyllis E. Hale. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 # 4 Michael J. Karg and Joyce Karg . . . . . . . . . 17 # 5 John G. Schramm. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 # 6 Adolph Westerlund and Martha Westerlund. . . . . 38 (41) # 7 Adolph Westerlund. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 (41) # 8 Paul L. Mitchell . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39 # 9 Rene Gendron . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 #10 Mr. and Mrs. Edwin Hoenig. . . . . . . . . . . . 47 #11 Theodore James, Jr. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 #12 William A. Lindsay . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 #13 Henry and Rose Kordal, Christopher and Johanna Stabile- 59 #14 Valentine Ruch IV. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 #15 Marjorie J. Nezin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66 #16 Alice MacLean Thompson . . . . . . . . . . . . . 81 #17 William Luhrs. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84 #18 Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Cain . . . . . . . . . . . . 88 #19 Vera Mayer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 92 #20 Arthur .J. Maillet, Jr. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 95 #21 Patrick and Marie Carrig . . . . . . . . . . . . 99 #22 Ersilia Pauli (Woods) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 #23 Warren and Carole Waldvogel. . . . . . . . . . . 106 #24 John L. Conway . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 107 #25 William F. Salmon and wife . . . . . . . . . . . 114 Grievance Day Town of Southold -2a- July 20, 1976 INDEX (Continued) Page #26 William F. Claudio, Inc. (mail) . . . . . . . . . . 115 #27 F. S. Rosenberg (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115 #28 Kyrillos Charalambides and wife (mail) . . . . . . 115 #29 Florence B. Torpey (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115 #30 Vicky Stavrolakes (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 116 #31 Spiro and Joan Beletsis (mail) . . . . . . . . . . 116 #32 Nick and Anne Theophilos (mail) . . . . . . . . . . 116 #33 Nick and Georgia Demakis (mail) . . . . . . . . . . 116 #34 Colgate Design Corp. (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . 116 #35 Ann Gotsis (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 117 #36 Magdalen Levas (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 117 #37 Milton A. Levas (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 117 #38 Dorothy Avent, Julia Stokes - (mail) . . . . . . . . 117 #39 Pawling Views, Inc. (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . 117 #40 Chemical Bank (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 118 #41 John Dinizio and wife (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . 118 #42 Westbury Equipment Co. (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . 118 #43 Westbury Equipment Co. (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . 118 #44 Neil S. MacDonald and wife (mail) . . . . . . . . . 119 #45 Mattituck Associates, Suburbia Federal Savings & Loan - 119(mail) #46 235 Mill Street, Inc. (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . 119 #47 Barbara P. Hughes (mail) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 120 Grievance Day Town of Southold -3- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Henry B. Lytle, Chairman, opened the Grievance Day proceedings at 9:00 a.m. , July 20, 1976. #1. Samuel J. Matassa and Olive A. Matassa, P. 0. Box 300, Greenport, New York. Property located on Island View Lane, Greenport. N - Adam Pekunka E,- Vera M. Weston S - Creek W - B. McBride Land - $2,100 Land and Buildings - $8,200 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath as follows: "Do you solemnly swear that the information you give herein will be given accurately and truthfully to the best of your ability?" Mr. Matassa: I do. Mrs. Lytle: I would like to read this first. It is dated September 30, 1975: Memo : Mr. Matassa on this date refused to discuss his assessment. Memo: At the time of his reassessment it was explained to him the complete procedure as to how we arrived at the assessment (several times) . Memo: He never appeared at Grievance Day 1975. This is a letter received by the Assessors on September 30, 1975 addressed to the Tax Assessor: I have a letter from the State Board of equalization and assessment counsel that Gov. Carey requested Mr. Thomas F. McGrath to write me about my tax assessment to fill out this form and for McGrath to keep him posted on the results. This letter from Albany. /s/ Sam Matassa This is January lst, 1976 to the Assessors Office: I am paying this tax under protest as in the past years. I am following orders of Mr. Thomas F. McGrath Counsel in my frient Governor Hugh Carey' s office in Albany until I have a hearing in July. /s/ Samuel J. Matassa. That will give you a bit of the background. I would like to look at the form. Grievance Day Town of Southold -4- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: This form is dated September 1975. It is not a new form. Mr. Matassa: Excuse me, you have this all wrong. I filled out a new form and there is a typewritten letter here in June. You haven't got all the data here. There' s a new form and a typewritten letter with all the people next. . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Fox, the gentleman says there is a new form with a typewritten letter. This is the 75 form. Mr. Matassa: I came here in June and a letter stating all the taxpayers, my neighbors, what they pay and it explains in the letter and form that I filled out. Mr. Fox brought in the new form and letter. • Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Fox, for the record would you get us a few of the neighboring properties. Let' s see if there is any difference in this form. This is 1976 new form. $700 difference between the two forms. How much did you pay for the land when you bought it? Mr. Matassa: When I bought that land, I paid $2650 and I paid Petrucci $1492 to fill it in because it had a cove. Mrs. Lytle: We just want to know what you paid for the land. The forms don't agree. Mr. Heuser: On one form here, sir, you have $5,019 as the cost of your land. Mr. Matassa: That' s including Petru.cci' s bills because that' s the cost of the land. In other words, water came within five feet on high tide which I didn't know and when it did, then I had to have this filled in so that' s part of the cost of my land. If I had known that, I would have never bought the land. I didn't know this at the time. Mr. Brown: This price includes the fill. Mrs. Lytle: How much did it cost you to fill the land? Mr. Matassa: $1492. Mr. Heuser: There is still $900 difference. Mrs. Lytle: You show a difference of $900 in these two forms in the cost of the land. Mr. Matassa: It must have been more then, the land. Grievance Day Town of Southold -5- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: You state down here this is private road, no street lights, you have to maintain the repairs and there is no police protection. That makes no difference. That' s your choice. Mr. Matassa: I want to explain all this before we go any further. When I first bought that property, that was a town road. Mr. George Wetmore was a cop here in town and he lived on that road. That was a town road. After I bought the property, I built the house. Mr. Martocchia, I asked him what' s the story here. Oh, he says, there was an error in the map tax assessors maps and it' s a private road. After me building the house there, they told me this. There was an error in the tax assessors office. When Mr. Wetmore moved, that was the time they found the error. To me, that isn't right. I would never have bought the house on a private road only that they had said it was a town road and they had plowed it and kept the maintenance up. Now, there you are. Mr. Heuser: When did they say that, sir? Mr. Matassa: I would say about six years after I bought that property, Martocchia told me that. I went to see Albert Martocchia. He was a tax assessor here. You can verify that with him if he remembers. They used to maintain that road when Mr. Wetmore was living there, on Island View Road. Then when he moved out, they stopped maintaining. They said, oh, no, we found an error in the books in the tax assessors office, that' s a private road now. Mr. Heuser: In other words, you bought that land in 1955. Mr. Matassa: That' s right, sir. Mr. Heuser: You built your house apparently around 1968? Mr. Matassa: I don't think it was that time. Maybe, it was finished then. I don't recall, sir. Mr. Heuser: The reason I am bringing it up is to clarify this conversion from the public road to a private road. Apparently, when you built the house, they had already converted it back to a private road. Six years after you bought the property would make it 1961. When did you build? Mr. Matassa: It was after that. I know that. Mr. Heuser: Then, it was a private road when you built. That' s the only point I am trying to make. Mr. Matassa: It wasn't a private road after I built. I'm sorry. After I built the house, then they told me there was an error and it was a private road. Grievance Day Town of Southold -6- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: After you built? Mr. Matassa: After I built the house. Mr. Heuser: I want to clarify something. I wish Mr. Fox would listen closely to this. Mr. Matassa states that the road on which he built his home, Island View Road, was returned from a public road back to a private road. Mr. Matassa: When Wetmore lived there it was a public road. Mr. Fox: To my knowledge, it was never anything but a private road. Mr. Matassa: It was when Mr. Martocchia was here. • Mr. Fox: It was never anything but a private road. I am not disputing you, but to my knowledge it was always a private road. You would have to show proof of that. Mr. Heuser: Number Two, the other point we would like to make again. You bought it in ' 55 and stating by your own notes here, six years afterwards they converted it, as you say, from a public road back to a private road, which would make it 1961. You built after that, so you built on it knowing it was a private road. You see my point? Mr. Matassa: I understand your point. That' s wrong there. Mr. Heuser: I am in the same position as you. I live on a private road. Mr. Matassa: If I had known it was a private road, sir, I would have never built the house, believe me. Mr. Heuser: You knew it, sir, according to what you state here. You knew it at the time you built. Mrs. Lytle: Is that so or not that you knew it at the time you built? Mr. Matassa: I didn't know it. Otherwise, I would have never built the house. Mrs. Lytle: What date did Mr. Martocchia tell you it was a private road? It was no longer a private road? Mr. Matassa: When he was here as an assessor, I came to see him. I don't remember the year, miss. Mr. Martocchia told me that and that' s how I found out that they had converted it. He said there had been an error in the tax office, on record. He said now it' s a private road. Grievance Day Town of Southold -7- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Fox, do you know anything about that error? Mr. Fox: I have been here nineteen years and, to my knowledge, it was always a private road. I never have known of any public road being turned back by the town. This has always been a private road, to my knowledge. If he wants to prove different, it is up to him to produce the records. Mr. Matassa: Mr. Martocchia told me different. I'm only talking of what Mr. Martocchia told me. He said there was an error in the records. Mrs. Lytle: Who did you buy the land from? Mr. Matassa: Frank Horne. �. Mrs. Lytle: What did he tell you when you bought it? Mr. Matassa: Well, actually, he didn't tell me nothing. Mrs. Lytle: He didn't tell whether it was a private or. . . . Mr. Matassa: No, ma'am, not that I recall. Mrs. Lytle: Buyer beware. Mr. Heuser: May I address this remark to you and Mr. Matassa? At the time that you bought that road, was the road developed? Was it a dirt road? Mr. Matassa: Partly asphalt and partly dirt, half and half. Mr. Heuser: The whole road was partly dirt and partly asphalt or sections of it? Mr. Matassa: Just half where Wetmore used to live, in front of that was all blacktop. Mr. Heuser: And the rest was dirt. And the house that you bought was on the dirt part of the road? Mr. Matassa: That' s right, sir. Mr. Heuser: No town road is ever accepted in the dirt condition. Mr. Fox, may I address a remark to you? The gentleman' s property was on a dirt road at the time that he purchased it. Unless I am wrong, no town road is accepted if it is dirt. Is that correct? Mr. Fox: The town required, even back in those days, at least one coat of oil. Even back in those days, they graded. Grievance Day Town of Southold -8- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: You also note here that it is not water front. Mr. Matassa: That' s right. Mrs. Lytle: Because you cannot get a rowboat out on the creek even at high tide. You have a creek in front of you? Mr. Matassa: Marshland. Mrs. Lytle: That' s waterfront. Mr. Matassa: Well, after all, if you can't get a rowboat out and there' s a stench in there at low tide especially full moon. I don't see how it' s waterfront when you can 't even get a rowboat out. You can't get a rowboat out no time to go into the bay and the stench there at low tide full moon. It' s all full of mud there. Mrs. Lytle: In other words, you want a reduction of $2200? You want that reduced on the property. On the property or the house? Mr. Matassa: I've got it in there what I want the tax reduced to. I paid $1650. Mrs. Lytle: We are not talking about what you paid. We are talking about. . . . . Mr. Matassa: I figured about $850 in taxes. Whatever you're talking about. Mrs. Lytle: We are talking about the assessed valuation. Mr. Matassa: I understand what you are talking about. Mrs. Lytle: That' s what we're ,talking about solely, not the dollars and cents there. 'You say the full market value of your property is $45,000, and the assessed valuation of your property is $8,200? Mr. Matassa: That' s right, miss. Mrs. Lytle: Our property in Southold Town is assessed on the basis of 25% of the market value. You are assessed $8200 so multiply that by four and you know that you are not being that much overassessed or anything. When you say the market value is $45,000 and the property is insured for $55,000, right. Then, you value it at what. Mr. Matassa: I couldn't sell it for $50,000, I'm insured for that. After all, if it burns down I only get 80% from the insurance company so I have to insure it for more. Grievance Day Town of Southold -9- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: Any questions? Mr. Matassa: You have got to take into consideration that I am paying, considered private property, I am paying the Town on my taxes for police, for street lighting, and for maintenance. Mrs. Lytle: There are many places in town that do not have street lighting, whether they are private roads or not. Mr. Matassa: But, I am paying that in my taxes, right, and there are three things that they don't do up there that I am paying for. Mrs. Lytle: But, when you buy on private property on a private road. . . . . Mr. Matassa: I know that now but I didn't know it at the time. I would have never bought the property or built the house. I did not know that. I got stuck. Mrs. Lytle: Peconic has their own street district. It ends shortly. We are in the Peconic lighting district and we pay extra lighting taxes for that district. We do not have any lights on our own road, on our own private road. Any more questions? Mr. Heuser: I notice that, according to this property record, you are bounded on the south by a creek. I would like to address my remark to the tax assessor. That creek makes his property waterfront property, is that correct? The gentleman contends it is wetlands. Mr. Fox: He owns out to where the water is. • Mr. Matassa: But there is no water there when it is low tide. It' s mud. Mr. Heuser: There' s no water in Long Creek at low tide either. Mr. Matassa: Then I don't understand what the work 'front' means. Mrs. Lytle: Even on the Sound, when it' s low tide, you can't pull a boat out. You have to wait for high tide. Mr. Matassa: Not is your house is right on the Sound, miss. If you are on the sound, if my house was on Peconic Bay. . . . Mrs. Lytle: I am not questioning that. I am trying to explain to you no matter where you are, you have to generally wait for high tide. Grievance Day Town of Southold -10- July 20, 1976 Mr. Matassa: You can't get a boat out at high tide. It' s only six inches of water. That' s what I am trying to explain to you. There ' s no water there. Mrs. Lytle: When you bought the property, you should have been aware of that. Have you ever heard about 'buyer beware' ? Mr. Matassa: I bought the property on the phone so. . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: 0. K. , gentlemen, anything else? Mr. Matassa: There are some of my neighbors and what they pay. Mr. Brown: According to this, in 172 the total was $8100 and in 174 it was $8200. Mr. Matassa: I'll tell you why. I'll give you a short story. Wendell Tabor come up there and I had just bought a tool shack for my lawnmower and he says this wasn't on the property when I was up here last. I said I only paid $99 for that and he raised my assessment $100, because that is improvement on the property. Now,if that is improvement on your property. I pay $99 for something and he raises my assessment $100. If you can figure that one out. That' s why. Mrs. Lytle: For your information, your tool shed was valued at $25. Mr. Matessa: $25. - I paid $99 in Grant' s. Mrs. Lytle: I mean that was one-quarter. Mr. Matessa: I don't see where that' s an improvement on the property, a tool shed. Mrs. Lytle: I'll tell you. Every building on your property, even if it is an outhouse, is assessed. Any further questions or do you have any further information? Mr. Matassa: No, ma' am. Mrs. Lytle: Does anybody here have any further questions? (All answered in the negative. ) Mrs. Lytle: Thank you for coming in. Within a week or so , we will make our decision and you will get a letter in several weeks. Thank you for coming in. Mr. Matassa: I appreciate your courtesy and I thank you very much. Grievance Day Town of Southold -11- July 20, 1976 #2. James P. Kavanagh and Brian Kavanagh, Box 223, Greenport, New York. Property located on Main Road, Greenport, restaurant known as "Brian' s Song" . N - New York Telephone Company E - New York Telephone Company S - Main Road W - Andrew Zipkas Estate Land - $700 Land and Buildings - $5,000 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath and Mr. James Kavanagh answered "I do" . Mrs. Lytle: I am going to read this first. "TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: In May of 1975, my son Brian and I purchased a bankrupt Restaurant and property known as Terrace East Restaurant. The reason for the purchase was to put my son in business. A factor in our calculation was that the real property tax was at a level that would give us a chance to get the business on its feet. It was estimated that two or three years would be necessary to put the business on a break even basis. Due to the delaying tactics of the A.B.C. Board, the summer of 1975 was lost. The license was held up until the end of September. At the present time the business is operating at a loss. However, it employs seven or eight local people on a full or part time basis. A one hundred percent increase in taxes at this time would create an almost insurmountable hardship and to my thinking an unconsciounable act. /s/ James P. Kavanagh" Mrs. Lytle: Before we go any further, you have not filled in this form. We must know, on the form - Claimant believes the assessment should be reduced to - you must fill that out before we act. What you think it should be reduced to. Mr. Kavanagh: I would like to see it stay at the same level. Mr. Brown: That addition is just a cooler. Mrs. Lytle: That' s what it says right down here. Down here, it says 'freezer building' . It was only assessed at $140 - valued at $140 assessed. It was $140 additional. Grievance Day Town of Southold -12- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: The land is the same value. It is just the improvements that you made. Mr. Kavanagh: The only improvements was the erection of the cooler. It came with the property. It was broken down. All we did there was erect the cooler. That was the only improvement on the building. Mr. Heuser: The building, as it stands now, is exactly the same as when you purchased it. Mr. Kavanagh: That' s correct. We painted it. Mrs. Lytle (after conferring with Mr. Fox) : In other words, it was assessed somewhat prior to 1960. Mr. Fox: Definitely. • Mrs. Lytle: This property has not been reassessed for sixteen years. On that basis alone, the value would go up terrifically in sixteen years. You put here to the same level. Mr. Heuser: As in the previous year. Mr. Kavanagh: What I am trying to do is get the business operating. Mrs. Lytle: You have a mortgage of $47,000? Mr. Kavanagh: That' s right. There are three mortgages on the place. Mrs. Lytle: That' s the total? • Mr. Kavanagh: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: Can you fill in the figure that you were assessed on land and property there as your tax bill shows, please. Mr. Kavanagh: $2500 total. Mr. Brown requested to see Mr. Kavanagh' s tax bill and Mr. Kavanagh handed it to him. Mrs. Lytle: Full market price or value. Will you fill it all in. Do you see all those statements there? We want the full market value of the property, the assessed valuation of the property and the amount overevaluation that you claim. Mr. Kavanagh: This full market value, I will have to guess at it. I wouldn't know it. Grievance Day Town of Southold -13- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: What you would consider. Mr. Kavanagh: If I were to sell the property? Mrs. Lytle: What it' s valuation is to you. Mr. Kavanagh: What I could receive for it if I tried to sell it? Mr. Heuser: What you would like to realize on it. You say you paid $75,000 for it. Mr. Kavanagh: Would I like to get my money back. They valued the equipment and the inventory at that time around $30,000 so I don't know if I should include that in the value of the property or not. Mrs. Lytle: No, we are talking about building and land. • Ms. Schwicker: Excuse me, sir, is this full market value $45,000 or $75,000? Mr. Kavanagh: $45,000 without the inventory and equipment. Mr. Heuser: In other words, your purchase price was $75,000 which included the kitchen appliances and everything. Mr. Kavanagh: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: That' s why I said the building and the land. It' s $45,000. The assessed valuation of the property is $2500. Mr. Heuser: It' s $5,000 now. Mrs. Lytle: He wants it reduced in half. He wants it back to what it was before. The property had not been reassessed for sixteen years. Mr. Kavanagh: Why was that? Mrs. Lytle: That I cannot tell you. Mr. Kavanagh: In other words, when I bought the property with the knowledge of the taxes and that was one of the factors in biding the place because we thought it was going to take two or three years to get it on its feet. This was one of the factors in buying the place. Mrs. Lytle: This assessment is based solely on the value of the land and the building. Mr. Kavanagh: I understand that but why wasn't the assessment done in sixteen years. Grievance Day Town of Southold -14- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: This has happened in many instances. These people or you, the first year, had the benefit of the fact that they did not get around to assessing. There are a certain number of assessors for the size of the town. They are gradually getting around to reassess everything. The question is, eliminating the fixtures and the business, how much do you think the land and the building would be worth. Mr. Kavanagh: I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 or $50,000. I'm not a real estate man. Mrs. Lytle: Any further questions? (All answered in the negative. ) Mrs. Lytle: I thank you for coming in. In about two weeks time you will hear from us. . Mr. Kavanagh: Thank you very much. #3. Phyllis E. Hale, 200 Village Lane , Orient, New York. Property located on Edwards Lane off Route 25, Orient. N - Long Island Sound E - F. A. Dorman Estate S - Gold and others W - B. P. Hughes Land - $7,000 Land and Buildings - $7,900 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath and Mrs. Hale answered "I do" . Mr. Heuser: This reads the old assessment of the land was $3500. The card reads $1800. Mrs. Hale: That was wrong. Mr. Fox corrected that in pencil but I wanted to make sure you knew about it. This is my old tax bill here. It had been recently divided. That $3500 was two years ago when my cousin and I owned the land together. Now, we are separate and I have my separate tax bill. Ms. Schwicker: When was the land divided, two years ago? Mrs. Hale: No, just last year. Mrs. Lytle: Will you fill in those figures. Mrs. Hale: I don't know that I know them. Mrs. Lytle: Do you have any idea what you would consider the market value? Grievance Day Town of Southold -15- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Hale: I really do not. Mrs. Lytle: What do you think you want it reduced to? Mrs. Hale: Do you mean the taxes or the assessment? Mrs. Lytle: The assessment. Mrs. Hale: Does that mean the total land and buildings? I think I can't say what I think it should be but I thought faur times was quite an increase when there haven't been any improvements made. Four times seemed alot. We wondered if had been increased twice on this $3500 which would make some sense, but that is incorrect. Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Fox, can you clarify that for us? Mr. Fox: (inaudible at the hearing and on the tape to me) Mrs. Hale: One thing I thought of, electric light poles have gone into some other people' s property and it might appear that it goes over to ours, but it doesn't. Mr. Fox: Here is the piece of property in question. (He went on to explain the split of the property) (The secretary asked Mr. Fox to please speak louder at this point. ) This is a fourteen acre tract which qualified as a farm. Once it is below ten acres, it doesn't qualify for a farm. Mrs. Hale: There is no farmland up there. Mr. Fox: Regardless, it is the size. Under ten acres, it is regarded as a small estate or whatever you want to call it. There is six acres here (inaudible again) This is the original section. This is our workbook and this is how we have to do it. This is what we call a split. It was split up to Phyllis Hale and Barbara P. Hughes. There is a change of acreage and a change of assessment. It was formerly $4500. They have one little seasonal cottage. Mrs. Hale: It is a beach house. It has no water or lights. Mr. Fox: We had a lady who had never been with us before sending out these notices and she got mixed up. However, that doesn't change the assessment. Mrs. Hale came in and I wrote the correct one on it. Now, the full value is $7900 and the land value is $7000. That means $7000 on the land and $900 on the building. The original split, we had to, when you make an apportionment the law says that you have to end up, their assessment must add up to what the original one was. Apportionment is done during the taxable year - after the roll has been prepared. It was done around February or March. The tax roll, the apportionment was made and posted in the tax book and this is why we had Grievance Day Town of Southold -16- July 20, 1976 $1800 on this piece of land here and $1700 on it here, added together is $4500. Our hands are tied by law because you have to do it this way proportionately. After the apportionment is made, then it is open to review on the next tax roll. That' s how it went from $1800 to $7900. We had to split this as it was at $4500. Here is her cousin. Mrs. Lytle: In other words, the value of the property goes up when it is split. Mr. Fox: This is a hard thing to understand but the smaller individual piece of property is split into, the more the value goes up on each individual piece so that the total of the individual pieces is greater than what the whole was. This is true in all subdivisions of land. That' s how it works out. I didn't formulate it. Mrs. Hale: I understand that, I just thought it was rather a big jump. Mr. Fox: I'm not arguing that. Anything over $10 is a big jump• Mr. Heuser: Mr. Fox, this is the thing in my mind. This $1800 value on the land, everything you said meant what? On how many acres? Mr. Fox: This was the apportionment. Mr. Heuser: On how many acres? This originally was fourteen acres. This Hughes property didn't enter into this at all. This was always Hale. Mr. Fox: That ' s right but they made a split. It was Hale and others. Mr. Heuser: But it' s still seven acres. Mr. Fox: No, when it was Hale and others, all one piece, it was around fifteen acres. Then we had to split it. When you split this for taxable purposes, you have to make an apportionment and you have to stick to what the assessment is on the tax roll for the apportionment. After you have apportioned it you are not held to that split, then you can review for the next tax roll. This is what was done. Mr. Heuser: Was this done after 1975? Mrs. Hale: I think it was formally done in September of last year. Mr. Fox: The tax roll didn't come out until the first week in December and we couldn't apportion until we got it. The deed was previous to that. Grievance Day Town of Southold -17- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: Is it clear to you? Mrs. Hale: It is quite clear to me. I understand why and how it was done. It was just the amount. Mrs. Lytle: Do you gentlemen have any further questions? Do you folks have any further questions? I trust you understand it. (All answered in the negative. ) Mrs. Hale: Yes, I think so. Mrs. Lytle: 0. K. , we will confirm our decisions. #4. Michael J. Karg and Joyce Karg, 8 Winthrop Street, Lynbrook, New York. Property located at 13 King Street, New Suffolk. N - King Street E - C. Avent • S - S. Kinczel W - Second Street Land - $800 Land and Buildings - $2300 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath and Mr. and Mrs. Karg answered 'yes' . Mrs. Lytle: Have you made any improvements to the house at all since you bought it. Mr. Karg: None except cut the grass. Mrs. Lytle: No improvements? Mr. Karg: Not yet, no. Mrs. Lytle: You have water, but you have an outhouse? Mr. Karg: We don't know if we have water yet. It is unusable- It is unlivable, you can't live in it. Mrs. Lytle: You purchased it in June? Mr. Karg: That' s about right, yes, maybe around the 4th or so. Mrs. Lytle: If you purchased it in June, who got the notice of the reassessment? Mr. Karg: Stan - Jack Realty and they forwarded it to us. Here is a copy of it. Mr. Heuser: What is the date on that, sir? Mr. Karg: I don't know, I don't remember. Grievance Day Town of Southold -18- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: Let me see it. July 16th. Mrs. Lytle: And when did you buy the property? Mr. Karg: June 4th, around that area. It was in the first week of June. Mrs. Lytle: Of 1976. Mr. Karg: Yes. Mr. Heuser: They notified Mr. and Mrs. Karg on July 16th. Mr. Karg: Stan - Jack Realty did. Mr. Heuser: But the appraisal was made in February. Mrs. Lytle: That' s why I asked that question. It was . reappraised in February of 1976 and he didn't notify you until July. Mr. Karg: No, that' s when. You can see it right there. Mrs. Lytle: And when was your closing? Mr. Karg: The first week in June. The 7th of June, 1976. Jack Driscoll Realty. Mrs. Lytle: When you closed, you didn't check anything? Mrs. Karg: We didn't check anything because we had a real estate lawyer check it. Mrs. Lytle: Who was your lawyer? Mr. Karg: Cron, from New Suffolk. I mean Cutchogue. Mrs. Karg: We took his word. Mr. Heuser: It is logical to assume that he would see what the assessed value of the property was, what the taxes were before he closed for you. Mr. Karg: Yes, he closed for us and all that. Mr. Heuser: Did he check into the assessed value of the property. Mrs. Karg: That' s what we hired him for. Mr. Karg: There was nothing discussed about taxes or assessed value or anything like that. Mrs. Lytle: You didn't raise the question about taxes at all? Grievance Day Town of Southold -19- July 20, 1976 Mr. Karg: Yes, when we were checking into it the early part of the year. It was $106. He showed me the tax receipt, the real estate agent did. Mr. Heuser: For the previous year? Mr. Karg: Yes, the real estate agent did and that was the only thing mentioned about taxes. Mr. Heuser: And your assumption was that they were still in affect. Mr. Karg: Yes, the same rate. Our protest here is what we are assessed to what the other people are assessed, it is out of proportion. Mrs. Lytle: Did you have any conversation with him about the taxes from February to the closing? • Mr. Karg: No, because we saw the last tax thing. Mrs. Lytle: When did you see that? As close as you can come to it? February, March, April? Mr. Karg: Around March, I would say, because I took a ride out to the real estate. . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: He showed you? Mr. Karg: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: He showed you the tax bill? Mr. Karg: Not Driscoll, what was the other man' s name? i Mrs. Lytle: Was it Mr. Waimey? Mr. Karg: Yes, Waimey. Mrs. Lytle: He showed you a tax bill of last year? Are you sure of that March date? Mr. Karg: No, I'm not. It was sometime in that part of the year. I didn't write it down when I went out and saw. . . . Mrs. Lytle: Can the two of you pinpoint when you talked to Mr. Waimey about the taxes or when he showed you a tax bill? Mr. Karg: No, ma'am, I said. It was before we decided to make the offer. Mrs. Lytle: When did you decide to go into buying the property? Mr. Karg: The end of April. Around May we made an offer on it and there was quite a bit of hesitation. Grievance Day Town of Southold -20- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: The end of April, you discussed the purchase? Mr. Karg: Mr. Waimey had the tax receipts and all that at the office at Four Sails Realty. That' s where I saw them, I remember that. That was around March when I saw him. I was in and out so many times. Mrs. Lytle: Can you recall? Mrs. Karg: No. Mrs. Lytle: You saw the tax receipts to the best of your knowledge in March. Mr. Heuser: You multiply the same $1500 by four brings you up to $6,000. The purchase price is $15,500, the assessed valuation is $2300. • Mrs. Lytle: We go on the basis of 25% of the market value is the way it is assessed so four times $2300 would $9200. Mr. Karg: But, it is so unlivable. The people next to me that have houses that are finished. One has a trailer, the other has commercial. In proportion, I am being taxed the same as these people. Mr. Heuser: If you paid $15,500 and the town assessors have it at $9200 full value. I have 'to ask this question, if you paid $15,500, it must have been worth it, the property alone. Mr. Karg: I'm not arguing property increase. I am arguing house increase because there ' s no. . . . . . Mrs. Karg: There is no water, no kitchen. Mr. Karg: So, how can I be taxed the same as these people when they have alot more. That' s what I am saying is unfair. Mrs. Karg: We don't care about the property tax. We're not arguing about that. It' s the taxes on the house. How can anything devalue and be taxed more for it? That picture, it doesn't look anything like that. I swear that picture was taken twenty years ago. That flagpole is not there. There is a big dogwood tree that has to be there fifteen or twenty years to grow to the size it is. Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Kelsey, what is your reaction to the picture and what the lady says. Have you any idea when it was taken? Mr. Kelsey: Probably in 1962. Grievance Day Town of Southold -21- July 20, 1976 Mr. Karg: The building is starting to look like that because we have been stripping ivy off it and, finally, found a window we didn't see. I have pictures. I didn't bring them, I didn't think I needed them but I can come back with them if I have to of what the house looked like in May. Mrs. Karg: Isn't there any possibility to tell how long a house has lain empty with nobody in it? Is there any way I could find that out? Mr. Heuser: From Driscoll or Waimey. Mrs. Karg: Nobody seems to know. Mr. Karg: If you are going by what we paid for it, that' s a different thing. Now, this Mr. Hinsel in the back, he has the same piece of property that I have and you are billing him for a half acre of property and the man only owns a quarter acre of property. I don't even understand how that works out. I couldn't figure that :one out either. He has a little bit larger piece. I am a quarter of an acre and he got billed for a half an acre. Ms. Schwicker: You said you weren't questioning the land. Mr. Karg: Not mine, I'm saying that poor man got hit. Ms. Schwicker: What rooms do you have on the first floor? Mr. Karg: At present, three, but eventually we are going to take them out. Ms. Schwicker: What are the rooms? Mr. Karg: I guess one was a living room. %`s. Karg: I guess, living room, dining room and kitchen, what other rooms would be downstairs? Mrs. Lytle: There aren't four rooms downstairs? Mrs. Karg: Definitely not. Mr. Heuser: You realize that Mr. Hinsel is assessed about three times what you are? Mr. Karg: Yes, but he also has commercial property. What' s the acreage? Mr. Heuser: Slightly over half. Mr. Karg: Alright, but the man only has a quarter. That' s why his taxes are higher. If you do a physical thing on it, I spoke to the man. According to your thing, he is 100 by Grievance Day Town of Southold -22- July 20, 1976 100 and 120. That ' s no half acre. He is getting ripped off worse than we are. That ' s neither here nor there. Mr. Heuser: 100 by 100? Mr. Karg: 100 across the front and 120 deep. Mr. Heuser: That is 12,000. Mr. Karg: That is neither here nor there. As far as looking at the thing and all, it went up in proportion. If you did a physical inspection is what we're saying, of it, the siding has to be done over on the house and all and, plus now, there is not heat in it at all and we want to apply for seasonal on it. Now, it' s under permanent status but now it's going to be a seasonal home. There is not going to be any heat in it. • Mrs. Lytle: What can you tell us about the inside of the house? Mr. Kelsey: I have never seen it. Mrs. Lytle: You have never seen the inside? Mr. Kelsey: We are not allowed to go inside. Mr. Heuser: I would like to clarify something, the statement that Mr. Kelsey made. Mrs. Lytle: The assessor does not necessarily see the inside of the house. He has to use his own judgment. Unless you invite him in. Are you aware of the change outside the house that the gentleman speaks of? • Mr. Kelsey: We don't base on the inside. We charge a dollar a square foot - just an ordinary garage. Mrs. Karg: They must be using the garage. Mr. Karg: A garage would be better than what we have. Mrs. Lytle: You have a two story house there which is more than the average garage as far as structure is concerned in size. Mr. Karg: In square feet, yes. I'll go along with that. Mr. Heuser: Is there a space heater in the basement? Mr. Karg: nothing, no heating whatsoever. Mr. Heuser: It says space heater here. Mr. Karg: Everything the real estate people, whoever it was cleaned out everything. I have two used washing Grievance Day Town of Southold -23- July 20, 1976 machines that aren' s workable. Mr. Heuser: There is no space heater in there? Mr. Karg: There is no heat whatsoever. Mrs. Lytle: You are talking about not being able to use it. Is there a space heater there? Mr. Karg: No, ma'am, there' s nothing. There' s a hole in the chimney where a pipe went in once before but there is nothing in the house. All that was left in that house is a sink, a stove and two washing machines which are unusable. I can't even use them. Mr. Heuser: Would it be logical, practical or what have you to get a release from the Karg people to the assessors to have them examine that and give us a report on it? Mr. Karg: You can go down there any time. There is no back door on it. You can take the plywood off and go in. Mr. Heuser: Will you accept that or think that is practical? Mrs. Lytle: Could you go out now, Mr. Kelsey? Mr. Karg: We can go down with them today. The only thing we have changed on this house is the upstairs we have started repair work and it' s cleaned out. We stripped it which is normal. Mrs. Lytle: What is the reaction of the board members to having the assessors go out. (Board members all agreed that the assessors should go down and look at the Karg property. ) Mrs. Lytle: There is one point I must bring out. If the assessor goes down and looks at the place and brings back a story on the physical condition and what he feels about it, I must remind you that if there is no change, it really is the story of the buyer beware. You bought this and you claim you were told that the taxes were a certain amount. Mr. Karg: Yes, that' s right. Mrs. Lytle: We call your attention to the fact that the taxes were increased as of February 1976 so that was up to the real estate people to advise you of that. Mr. Karg: The only thing I am saying that with this house with no plumbing and all that stuff, that this just didn't seem right with what the other people were. Grievance Day Town of Southold -24- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: In other words, your argument should basically be with the people that sold you the house. Mr. Karg: As far as the tax, I'd go along with that but in three years come back and reasse,% us after we do the work and all. Then, we expect to pay the tax on it. Maybe, in four years, we will put heat in it and all but as of the present we can't afford it. Mrs. Lytle: If Mr. Kelsey is free, I suggest you go right down. Mr. Heuser: With your permission, I would like to make another suggestion. Mr. Kelsey is not to explain anything. This report is to be made to us. You will be notified by use Mrs. Lytle: As long as you want him to see the inside of the house, you are inviting him in to see the inside of the house? Mr. Karg: Definitely. Mrs. Karg: How about changing it to seasonal? Mrs. Lytle: It doesn't make any difference whether it is seasonal or all year round. It is the value of the land and the value of the particular house. A seasonal would come under the heading of the type of heat you have and all that. Mr. Karg: But, we're not going to have heat. Mrs. Lytle: Alright, there will be no heat in it. That also will affect the value of the house. Mr. Karg: Are you saying the tax would be the same if it is used seasonal with no heat as it is with heat in it? Mrs. Lytle: The tax is not based on what you use the house. Mr. Karg: I'm not arguing that, I am arguing heat. Mrs. Lytle: All those things inside the house, as long as you are showing it to them come into the reassessment. Mr. Fox suggested that he and Mr. Moisa go down and check the house because they are both strangers to Mr. and Mrs. Karg. Mr. Heuser: You are not to make any decision of any sort to the Kargs. You will make it to us. Mr. Karg: Let' s straighten out this seasonal deal. I want to get that straightened out. Grievance Day Town of Southold -25- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: There is nothing I can tell you about seasonal. It is not based on how many days or how much you use the house. It is based on the value of the house as to its construction, as to the type of heat or the fact whether there is no heat. Mr. Karg: There will be no heat. #5. John G. Schramm, Hedge Street, Fishers Island, New York. Property located on Hedge Street, Fishers Island. N - Gada and Hedge Street E - Toglia and Hedge Street S - Toglia and Doyen W - Gada George Stankevich, Esq. appeared on behalf of Mr. John G. Schramm and took the oath administered by Ms. Schwicker. • Mrs. Lytle: Will you explain to us what you are. . . . . . . . . Mr. Stankevich: Yes, I represent the applicant, John G. Schramm, who owns the subject property which is located on the southwest side of Hedges Street. The basis for the appeal is twofold. Number one, inequality. I have annexed to the application exhibits A through J. Exhibit A is the assessors' card for the subject property. B through J are the assessors ' cards for the surrounding property. I suggest to you that each and every one of the surrounding properties is worth two to two and a half to three times the value of Mr. Schramm' s property, yet they are assessed in value equal to Mr. Schramm or less. Let me explain that more clearly. Exhibit A, which is Mr. Schramm' s assessors ' card shows an assessed valuation for land of $1,000 and $6700 for the building. Exhibit B is the assessors' card for Canio A. Toglia who owns the property immediately to the southwest. The interesting thing about Mr. Toglia' s house is that, number one, it is a bigger piece of house. It is two and a half stories. It' s a frame dwelling. Mrs. Lytle: Just a minute. These things are of no value to us. We don't have any pictures. We have to get the cards. Mr. Heuser: See, we have pictures of each piece of property. Mr. Stankevich: I understand that. I am entitled to present them to you as exhibits. Mrs. Lytle: We want the pictures. Mr. Heuser: You can continue, if you wish, while we get the cards. Grievance Day Town of Southold -26- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: This gentleman' s property, is he near Francis Doyen' s lobster store? Mr. Stankevich: No, the store is at a different end of the island. Francis Doyen owns a piece of property right across the street on the water which is also involved. I'll just start. I would like to point out to you that when you review the cards of the surrounding property, the first card I pointed out, Toglia, has nothing on it. It is ridiculous. It is a completely blank card when they gave an assessment. It hasn't been changed since 1959. There are several cards in the neighborhood just like that, nothing on them. I'll just stop there until the cards come in. You can verify that. Mr. Heuser: I might point out the 14% equalization rate has no bearing. Mrs. Lytle: No, all this property throughout the town is assessed at 25% so we don't figure on that equalization rate at all. We go on 25% of the market value. Mr. Stankevich: Obviously, though, after you get done with this presentation, you will see that' s not being done at all. It is honored more in breach than in fact, particularly in this particular neighborhood. I would suggest that the rate of assessment in this neighborhood, the actual rate that is being used, is somewhere around seven per cent. There is no other way to explain the disparities in assessed valuation. Mrs. Lytle: Now, the thing is here, you are talking about assessors' figures. You have not. . . . . . Mr. Stankevich: Which item are you talking about, computation one, two or three? The computations are explained as follows. Mrs. Lytle: But, you don't show us what you think the full market value is. Mr. Stankevich: My presentation will explain that. I have given you a range. Mrs. Lytle: It has to be on the form. Mr. Stankevich: It is there. I think you should read the entire thing. What I wanted to. . . . . Mrs. Lytle: Just wait half a second so I can look at this carefully. He believes the assessment should be reduced to that. He does not show what they consider the full market value,- right? Mr. Stankevich: That' s computation number one. Grievance Day Town of Southold -27- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: No, you have full market value based on assessment but I'm not talking about that. Mr.. Stankevich: I have three different computations to give you a range of. . . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: We don't want that type of stuff. What we must know is what you consider the full market value of the property. Mr. Stankevich: After you have looked at all three, I will tell you what I feel. It' s number three. I'm entitled to give you various ranges. The first computation takes what the assessor thought was the full valuation and I am suggesting that though you may not go by what the Board of Equalization goes by, it gives you some idea of what is going "on in the Town of Southold. • Mrs. Lytle: But, you are basing this on 1960 values. Mr. Stankevich: That' s what the assessor is basing it on. He is not assessing it on 1976 full value. I asked him explicitly and he is using as a base period - 1960. If you would let me explain it, . . . . . . . . Let' s go through the comparables and then we'll come back to computations. Toglia, this property is assessed $300 for land and $1900 for the building for $2200 total. It is a two and a half story house in very good condition, much, much bigger. . . . . Mrs. Lytle: O.K. , just a second. Mr. Heuser: As you state, there is no picture on it. Mr. Stankevich: How can you run an assessment office like this? Mr. Heuser: That ' s nice. Mr. Stankevich: Well, it' s not nice for my client and that' s all I represent. The acreage is a little smaller. However. . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: Wait a minute, just a half a second. Are any of the assessors outside? Mr. Stankevich: Southwest of the subject property. . . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: Fishers Island is not your area, is it? Mr. Kelsey: No, it is Henry Moisa' s. Mrs. Lytle: Is he here? Mr. Heuser: He went to assess that property. Grievance Day Town of Southold -28- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lfytle: Where' s Fox? Mr. Heuser: He went with him. (These two assessors had been given permission previously to check the Karg property in New Suffolk. ) Mr. Stankevich: Serge Doyen is the same situation. The house is located immediately in the neighborhood to the southwest. It is a very large house, two and a half stories. The property is a little smaller but the house is at least twice as big. The assessment total is $2800. Exhibit D, Toglia, is another house. . . . . Serge Doyen' s. . . . Mrs. Lytle: Just a second, please. Mr. Stankevich: Another house by Toglia, immediately to the southwest. Toglia has two houses in that neighborhood, Exhibit D, and again two and a half story house. The property is. . . . . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: Just a second. (having difficulty finding the correct cards. ) I want to see the picture. Mr. Heuser: There isn't any picture. Mr. Stankevich: I am giving you complete copies of the assessors' cards. Again, the house is twice as big easily, much better condition and you have a total assessment of $4200. Let' s go on to my exhibit E. Mr. Heuser: What is your next exhibit? Mr. Stankevich: E. Mr. Heuser: Who is it? Mr. Stankevich: Francis Doyen. Mr. Heuser: That' s the one we passed up. Give me another one. You have a Hoch, a Ryan, a Buckley. Which one is next? Mr. Stankevich: Woodhull. Woodhull is across the street from this. Woodhull. . . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: Wait just a second. Something is just beginning to dawn on me and I may be in error, but I believe Fishers Island is in the process of being reassessed. It is like we've had before when the whole area ;has not been reassessed. You may be talking about one piece that has been reassessed and the rest has not been reassessed. The whole island cannot be done at one time. Do you have any information of such. Grievance Day Town of Southold -29- July 20, 1976 Mr. Stankevich: No, and in fact that doesn't affect my client' s claim. The answer is the assessors should do all their homework and then put them on the books at the same time. Mrs. Lytle: That is a physical impossibility unless you want to take on more assessors. Mr. Stankevich: That may be so. My point is to burden a seventy-five year old ill man with the burden of a tax bill he can't pay this year because of this problem, if that is a problem, I suggest it is not. They just took this off the tax rolls because there was a deed of conveyance. It' s the only house in the neighborhood that was touched so that doesn't make sense. You do neighborhoods at a time. You go door to door to door. Anyway, I was talking about Woodhull. This is waterfront property and there is a picture on file. It is three and a half stories this house, waterfront - a half acre on the water - and the assessed valuation of this house is $10,600, roughly $3,000 more than my client but if it' s not worth three or four times more, I'd be very much surprised. Waterfront property immediately across the street. The assessed valuation should at least be double of what my client' s is. Mr. Heuser: Would you concede that if Woodhull had an acre, it would be double? Mr. Stankevich: Maybe, more. It' s waterfront. I don't think the increase in acreage in Woodhulll ' s would make much difference in price. There is a certain substantial value of any waterfront property is worth:, but I put it as a frame of reference, it' s right directly across the street, down Hedges Street. Buckley is the same situation. Buckley is waterfront. Mr. Heuser: If you were to multiply the equations out, the Woodhull property, on the basis of an acre, would be assessed at 4,000 dollars against Schramm' s $1,000. Mr. Stankevich: It is still ridiculous. You also have to understand that my client' s property is not water view. It is in a hollow. Hedges Street comes up from the water and then it comes down. Mrs. Lytle: On the basis of the size of the piece of land. Mr. Stankevich: I understand the mathematics of it. Mrs. Lytle: He is assessed four times the value already. Mr. Stankevich: And I think my client' s assessment should be less because it is hardly comparable land. Grievance Day Town of Southold -30- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: It is less. Mr. Stankevich: I know it is less but I think it should be far less and the house should be far less. That' s the purpose of coming here and my purpose of bringing these exhibits to you is to show you that there is inequality. I have never seen anything like it. I was much surprised myself. How can Woodhull' s house be assessed at a mere $3,000 more when it is three and a half stories on the water when my client' s house is very modest and in poor in a hollow across the street. It doesn't make sense. I would like to go on to Buckley, exhibit H. Buckley, again, is waterfront property, two stories and an attic which is two and a half stories, a very substantial house. You have a photograph of it. You just compare the sizes. This house is assessed at $4100 for a total of $5300. That' s in excess of $2,000 on assessed valuation than my client' s house directly across the street and this house is on the waterfront. My client doesn't understand that. Mrs. Lytle: Wait a second. In 1972. . . . Mr. Heuser: Do you realize that Schramm's property was depreciated 30%? Mr. Stankevich: Yes. Mr. Heuser: And you still want a reduction? Mr. Stankevich: Absolutely. Mr. Heuser: Do you realize that Mr. Woodhull' s property was depreciated 20%? Mr. Stankevich: That' s why I put them in and there' s just no way, after you look at all the cards, to say that Schramm' s property is worth what it is if the other assess- ments are correct. There definitely is inequality. How can you say that Buckley' s property which is again right across the street, a third of an acre on the harbor, water- front property, there' s a picture in the file on the assessors' card, two and a half story house. I mean it' s a substantial building. It' s huge. Mr. Heuser: It' s an antiquated building. Mr. Stankevich: And you should see my client' s. Mr. Heuser: It looks a hell of alot better. Mr. Stankevich: Not so and the fact is. . . Mr. Heuser: Alot of these buildings are antiquated. Grievance Board Town of Southold -31- July 20, 1976 Mr. Stankevich: These buildings are not antiquated. I saw them with my own eyes Saturday. I went on the neighbors property and asked them permission to look. I tell you there is just no way Buckley' s property and my client' s property can be both rightly assessed - $5300 and my client has $7700. Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Fox, am I correct in explaining to the gentleman that Fishers Island is in the process of being reassessed and only some parcels have been done and others will be so those that didn't get it this year will get it next year. Mr. Fox answered definitely to the question of Fishers Island being in the process of being reassessed. Mr. Stankevich: Mr. Fox, isn't it a fact that a neighbor of Schramm or possibly you could tell me what other. . . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: One moment, you must address the board. Mr. Stankevich: I would like you to ask Mr. Fox how many other houses in Mr. Schramm' s neighborhood he reassessed this year if he is reassessing the entire Fishers Island. Mrs. Lytle: Am I correct in assuming that eventually all places will be reassessed? Mr. Fox: You are correct in assuming that. Mrs. Lytle: It' s just a matter of time? And staff? Mr. Stankevich: Madame chairman, would you ask the question I put? ' Mrs. Lytle: I did. Mr. Stankevich: No, you didn't. How many other houses in Schramm' s neighborhood did you assess this year? Mrs. Lytle : How many other houses did you assess? Mr. Fox: I don't know exactly. Mr. Stankevich: Isn't it a fact that none of the surrounding houses other than Schramm' s was reassessed? Mr. Fox: I don't know exactly. Mr. Stankevich: The cards are right in front of you. I suggest to you, madam chairman, that the good intentions of the Town of Southold assessors cannot weigh on this board one iota. If the Town Board doesn't want to give them the money, they can't do the job and that cannot be used as a Grievance Day Town of Southold -32- July 20, 1976 device or lever denying my client a fair assessment. Mrs. Lytle: Do you know that happens in the entire town. That happens to everybody in the town. Mr. Stankevich: Do you realize the StateBoard of Appeals in the matter of Hellisteen has thrown out the entire assessment practice, not only this small portion of it, so I am well aware of the problems of the town assessor. I am the Town Attorney for Shelter Island but my client has come to you and we are showing unbelievable disparities in this neighborhood and all we are saying is, reduce our assessment comparable to our neighbors based upon a differentiation in the houses and we will be happy. Mrs. Lytle: With my knowledge, the little knowledge I may have, what will eventually happen, the neighbors' assessment will be raised. . . . . Mr. Stankevich: It can't be used as a basis for denying my appeal. It' s an illegal basis. Mrs. Lytle: It' s a matter of opinion. Mr. Stankevich: I hope you get an opinion on it. I would like any comments made by the assessor to the chairman put on the record because that' s the function of the tape recorder. (Mr. Fox' s comments were inaudible to me as well as did not show up on the tape. ) Mrs. Lytle: It doesn't make any difference what he said because I did not hear it. Mr. 9tankevich: Can we go on to the other comparables that I have shown you. Francis Doyen. Francis Doyen is another very interesting property, directly across the street. Francis Doyen, of course you know is the judge, a town justice, and his total assessment is $61700. Mr. Fox: May I make a remark to the board. Mrs. Lytle: Yes, you may. Mr. Fox: The counsellor referred to Mr. Francis Doyen to make sure to identify his position on the Town Board. I hope there wasn't any inference in that because we had, I do happen to know this, raised Mr. Francis Doyen on another piece of property just this past season which would show that any inference would be unjustifiable because of his position on the town board. Mr. Stankevich: You can make any inferences you want, Mr. Fox, but I think it is very improper for him to bring in the other assessment on Fishers Island unless he wants me to do so. The point of the matter is that Francis Doyen' s Grievance Day Town of Southold -33- July 20, 1976 across the street on the waterfront. The surprising thing about Francis Doyen' s property is he has not only one house but he has two houses on it, two very substantial houses in good condition. Both of them, I tell you, are larger than my client' s house. The combined assessment of Francis Doyen' s property with two houses and a waterfront lot is $1,000 less than my client' s. That' s ridiculous on the face of it. There is no cause for it. Mr. Heuser: If all these houses are on a piece of property that' s one-eighth of an acre, how do they do it? Mr. Stankevich: I guess they pre-exist zoning. It' s one in front of the other. Mr. Heuser: He' s got an easement on his property, too. This is a beach cottage. Mr. Stankevich: A very substantial cottage, I would suggest. Mr. Heuser: 400 square feet. Mrs. Lytle: This other house has no heat. Mr. Stankevich: One of the functions, as I understand Board of Assessors is to actually even out these inequalities that creep by uneven assessing. To even them out until entire neighborhoods are covered en masse. Mr. Heuser: You are not wrong in your thinking. Mrs. Lytle: This is what they have been doing because I can tell you as a matter of fact that two years ago they did Mattituck. Mr. Stankevich: But this is the reason for people coming to you and if they don't do the entire neighborhood, then it is my understanding of your function, to even things out and ameliorate it until everybody gets thrown into the same pot. Either they have to use the same valuation or percentages or they have to keep them all up to date. You're to alleviate the hardship. I think there certainly is hardship here. Mrs. Lytle: We have nothing to do with hardships. Mr. Stankevich: Certainly, inequalities. Maybe, my choice of words is not exact. Mr. Heuser: We have noticed over the years when we get complaints such as Schramm' s that from 1966 to 76 we went along with a $4100 rateable and alot of other people get in the same category. Whereas Doyen that you're talking about was going along with a $6700 rateable. This Schramm Grievance Day Town of Southold -34- July 20, 1976 had an acre. Mr. Doyen had an eighth of an acre. Mr. Stankevich: But, the fact of the matter is. . . . . . . Mr. Heuser: But, the fact of the matter is what you are going to say is after ten years, Doyen' s rate on the basis of his acreage and everything, his tax should be more substantial than Schramm' s. Mr. Stankevich: I disagree with that. Based on the size of his structures, his rate was far less. Mr. Heuser: He was only appraised at $3100, Mr. Schramm was, for ten years where Doyen was appraised at $6100 for ten years. Mr. Stankevich: The interesting thing is. . . . . Mr. Heuser: You don't care to answer me on that. Mr. Stankevich: No, I am looking for Doyen' s card., Francis Doyens. He has been reassessed approximately the same number of times, one less than my client and his assessment card starts 1959 and the first assessment on my client. . . . . Mrs. Lytle: There' s been an assessment prior to 1959. Mr. Stankevich: And there was one prior to 1959 on my client, also. Mr. Heuser: At the time that your client was assessed, in 1966, his property valuation was decreased. Mr. Stankevich: Yes, he had a reduction. He went before the Grievance. . . Mr. Heuser: Just as long as you made an issue of the Doyen thing, this was not reduced. Mr. Stankevich: So what, maybe he didn't complain. Mr. Heuser: Alright, but at the same time, he has been paying on. . . . . . .The innuendo is again picked up on Doyen. Mr. Stankevich: I didn't make any innuendo. Mr. Heuser: That ' s a matter of interpretation. Mr. Stankevich: Of course. Mr. Heuser: He has been paying $2,000 more assessed value on his property, on his buildings, than your client. I am only pointing that out for your benefit. Grievance Day Town of Southold -35- July 20, 1976 Mr. Stankevich: He should be paying twice as much as my client in my view. Mr. Heuser: This is over a period of ten years, so your client hasn't been penalized. . . Mr. Stankevich: He should be paying twice as much every year as my client because. . . . Mr. Heuser: That will comeup in the reassessment, counsellor. Mr. Stankevich: Right, so if you are going to go back and say that in a few back years he paid more, I am saying he is entitled to pay more because he has a much more valuable piece of property. It is assessed in an unequal manner. This is no way. . . . . Mr. Heuser: In some areas they are losing tract that an • acre of land is worth a hell of alot more than an eighth of an acre. Mr. Stankevich: Except when you have other matters such as waterfront put into it. Even if you scratch off the issue and accepted the fact that the valuation of the land on my client' s property might be correct the building is way out of line when you compare Doyen' s. Mr. Heuser: The building at that time. . . . . . Mr. Stankevich: We are talking about today. $6100 on Doyen' s, the two buildings. Mr. Heuser: $6700 on the buildings. $7700 total. We're talking about Schramm. He hasn't been reassessed yet. Mrs. Lytle: No, and when he gets reassessed then it will up proportionately. Mr. Stankevich: That' s not the issue, the point. . . . Mr. Heuser: The issue is that the practice has been that due to the inability to hire one hundred tax assessors so they can go out and assess the whole town at one time. It' s too costly. Mr. Stankevich: It' s illegal practice. Mrs. Lytle: You're asking for a reduction for your client. Mr. Stankevich: Absolutely Mrs. Lytle: O.K. , if we hire a firm or more assessors and go out and reassess, I can assure you that your assessment would go up again. Grievance Day Town of Southold -36- July 20, 1976 Mr. Stankevich: That is not a legal reason for denying my appeal, number one, and, number two, for practical reasons, you don't have to hire a hundred assessors to reassess this town. Even with the same number of assessors as you have now, if you are going to go neighborhood by neighborhood, you do neighborhood by neighborhood but right now, it' s hit or miss. The function of the Board of Appeals is to alleviate this hit and miss inequality when it develops and when it is raised. Some people don't raise it, some do and it just depends on the degree of a person' s circumstances. Let' s go on to another neighbor because each one of these properties is very important. Mr. Heuser: I think that counsel has made his point, what he wants and how he wants it and his example and I think it has to be reviewed which is our purpose. • Mr. Stankevich: I would like to have the opportunity to go through a few more. . . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: You have covered adjoining ones. We don't go through the whole area. Mr. Stankevich: May I suggest to you that these examples are all neighbors, all waterfront property and some of them are assessed a little more than my client and many of them assessed way under, Buckley $5300. Mrs. Lytle: Give them time. Next year, they'll be here crying. Mr. Heuser asked that it be put on the record that the counsel has raised the question of the inequality of the assessments not being made at one time. Mr. Stankevich: No, I didn't raise that. That' s your point. I'm saying. . . Mr. Heuser: You made a statement that your client was being raised and his neighbors weren't because he is the only one reassessed at this point. Mrs. Lytle: There is no reason for discussing. There is a tape recorder running, there is a stenographer with a machine so there is no question. . . . . Mr. Stankevich: May I give you one further example. Mrs. Lytle: That' s it, then. Mr. Stankevich: I am very surprised at this Board because most people come in to you and all they come with is a wish and a hope and a prayer. I have come in to you, I give you the surrounding neighborhood, the disparities of assessment and you seem to want to gloss over them and I think you will find out. . . . . . Grievance Day Town of Southold -37- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: No, we are not. We have everything you said on tape and we sit again. Mr. Stankevich: The disparities of the assessment are the most important item. They either showing an unequal assessment practice or an unequal rate has been used. Let me show you something. One of these gentlemen, Mr. Heuser, was talking about acreage as being an important factor. I have here the assessing card for Reynolds DuPont, Jr. , one of the most exclusive areas. 3.15 acres with two brick buildings, two brick buildings. His land is assessed at $2500. Mrs. Lytle: We would have to know what date that last assessment was. Mr. Stankevich: 1971, but it is on the present tax rolls at that rate and that' s what counts, not when it was • assessed. From a legal point of view, what counts is that there is an inequality in the present tax rolls. So if you are talking about acreage, he' s assessed for much superior property well below the thousand dollars an acre that you have set for my client. Mrs. Lytle: How large is the acreage? Mr. Stankevich: 3.15. He has two brick houses which no fair minded person can say are anywhere close in value to my client' s assessed at $6700 or less. I mean, it just doesn't make sense. All I am asking is I have a 75 year old client. His assessment is doubled, he cannot afford. Mrs. Lytle: That doesn't enter into it. Mr. Stankevich: I know that, but that' s the reason I am here and he is not. Mrs. Lytle: We can't consider that. Mr. Stankevich: All you consider, as far as I know, legally is the surrounding properties and that' s what I brought in. Mr. Heuser: He has partial brick, the rest is all shingles. Mr. Stankevich: Yes, the roof is shingled. The entire building, the walls are brick. Look at the photographs outside. Mrs. Lytle: O.K. , thank you for coming in. Mr. Stankevich: I would also suggest to you. . . . . . . Mrs. Lytle: You will hear from us in about two weeks time. Mr. Stankevich: There is no question that the entire Grievance Day Town of Southold -38- July 20 , 1976 assessment process in the Town of Southold and every other east end town is illegal and we may have to face this issue sooner or later and I hope we don't do it with this case. Mrs. Lytle: Is that a veiled threat that you will take us to court. Mr. Stankevich: No, I am saying that we have atremendous problem in the Town of Southold. Mrs. Lytle: Your very last statement. Mr. Stankevich: It' s on tape. Mrs. Lytle: That' s a veiled threat? Mr. Stankevich: No, it' s not. A threat because I am representing my client. Mrs. Lytle: No, I mean your statement. Mr. Stankevich: Although I expect by the demeanor of some of the members of the board that we are going to end up in court on this case because I don't have any faith in the fact that you are going to take into consideration the surrounding neighborhood and I don't know why. Thank you. Mrs. Lytle: Thank you for coming in. You will hear from us in about two weeks. # 6. Adolph and Martha Westerlund, Peconic, New York Property located on Main Road, Peconic. N - Main Road E - J. Szczotka S - P. Bedell W - A. Westerlund Land - $700 Land and Buildings - $3600 #7. Adolph Westerlund, Peconic, New York. Property located on Main Road, Peconic, New York N - Main Road E - A. Westerlund S - P. Bedell W - P. Bedell Land - $400 Land and Buildings - $2500 Grievance Day Town of Southold -39- July 20, 1976 Mr. Westerlund was administered the oath by Ms. Schwicker. There was a question that Mr. Westerlund had two claims on one form. He left to complete another form. #8. Paul L. Mitchell, 1630 Town Harbor Lane, Southold, New York. Property located on Town Harbor Lane, Southold. Subdivision - Jonathan T. Overton Lot 20 and SE 1/2 of Lot 21 Land - $900 Land and Buildings - $5100 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. Mitchell.. . Mr. Mitchell: I drew a sketch map of my street on Town Harbor Lane. My house is in the rear of a street drain • which is the only street drain on that entire block. The next drain up the street is three-eighths of a mile up the street. Both sides of the street drain down which is three-quarters of a mile of drainage. Just recently, two new streets have been put into this area which also drain down into this area now, too. They installed one street drain here which, I believe, is not adequate for the two streets that they have here coming down here. Therefore, the two streets drain down, both sides. There' s a drain opposite the drain that is in front of my house but that drain empties into my drain. The Town has installed a pipe underneath the ground as an overflow to the side of my property causing a tremendous erosion problem and causing debris. Mr. Heuser: What' s on that side where the overflow comes out? Mr. Mitchell: That' s Rosenburg' s. Mr. Heuser: Is it an empty lot or a creek or what? Mr. Mitchell: No, it' s someone else' s property, Rosenburg' s. Mr. Brown: Are there any houses there or anything. Mr. Heuser: Is it running on his property? Mr. Mitchell: Mostly my property. The erosion problem is tremendous there. Mr. Heuser: This gentleman' s property has more to do with Ray Dean. Mr. Mitchell: I spoke to Ray Dean and he hasn't done a darn thing for me and I claim if they can't do something for me, reduce my taxes. I'm getting murdered with the water. Grievance Day Town of Southold -40- July 20, 1976 Mr. Moisa: The reassessment was on the basis that he had a building permit in 1970 and he has been on a partial until 76 and we completed the assessment as of March 22nd 1976. Mr. Mitchell: The house I am not questioning. I did alot of improvements on it. I am one individual, no one ever listens to me. I think I have one of the worst problems in the town. I have the worst piece of property as a result of the town not listening to me. I spoke to Ray Dean. I have tried everything. If I scream loud enough that my taxes are lowered, they'll put in more street drains and, therefore, I'll pay my taxes. I don't object to paying taxes. For God' s sakes, give me a break. They're murdering me with the street water. I get a swimming pool in my backyard everytime there' s any sort of a rain storm. The whole street, both sides, flow down all over my property. It even goes to the point where I have to build little hills all over the place to stop the flow of water. Ray Dean is a nice guy. He puts a pipe under the ground to the side of my property. Great. Now, it goes all over my back yard. I could charge the town money for putting their water on my property. Mr. Heuser: Ray did put this thing in. Mr. Mitchell: Yeah, great guy. They put a pipe there so it flows into the backyard and I have a gulley between Rosenburg' s property and mine. You get all the trees and twigs. I clean up the town' s garbage. I don't think it' s fair at all. I pay the same amount of property as the people next door to me and everything else? Mr. Moisa: As far as the drainage is concerned, it is not in our jurisdiction. This is the first time I heard of the problem as far as drainage is concerned. Mr. Mitchell: Why don't they put more street drains in the street. It is one or two blocks past the supermarket. If you look at that street, it is a slight decline all the way down, right down to my property. When it rains, I get it. Mrs. Lytle: That is your major complaint? Mr. Mitchell: I don't object to paying taxes. I think everybody should pay taxes. Nobody listens to me and I have a right to squawk. Mrs. Lytle: May I ask one other question? Your assessment on the land was not raised until 171 and hasn't been raised since on the land. It was your house that was raised. You claim you have been complaining about this. Grievance Day Town of Southold -41- July 20, 1976 Mr. Mitchell: Yes, but I am retired from the Fire Depart- ment of New York City. I never had time to come out here to squawk. I went with Dean all over the place. Every year I am down there complaining to him and he gives me this brushoff all the time. In fact, the street drain collapsed. There was a hole big enough for a small child and my granddaughter comes down there, to fall through. So, I complained and they came down and filled it in and they threw alot of dirt in there so it looks good, but they keep brushing me off. I take a tremendous beating. I contend that this Town should put adequate street drains on Town Harbor Lane. I have no objection to paying taxes on my assessed valuation but put four or five more street drains up that street. I drew a sketch of the street here. Why can't they put a street drain here, here and maybe one there and there and stop it from flowing. Mrs. Lytle: May I have this? • Mr. Mitchell: Certainly. I don't know why they can't put street drains in and do something about it. It' s terrible there. Mrs. Lytle: O.K. Are there any questions? Mr. Heuser: No, I think we have to resolve it with the other parties. Mrs. Lytle: Thank you for coming in. We'll see what we can find out or do about it and contact you in about two week' s time. #6. Adolph Westerlund - reconvened V. Mrs. Lytle: You took the oath and that' s O.K. Mr. Westerlund: The whole piece of property is 140 foot road front and 120 foot in the rear. It' s 217 foot on the east and 168 foot on the west side. The whole thing put together does not even make a half an acre. Mrs. Lytle: Are these adjoining pieces? Mr. Westerlund: They are side by each. I had to move in and build a house alongside my mother and father when they were disabled. Mr. Heuser: On Adolph' s and Martha' s property, they got 90 frontage on the road and on your' s they have 55 foot frontage on the road. Mr. Westerlund: I have been trying to have the thing changed. Grievance Day Town of Southold -42- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: The rate is higher for the frontage. Mr. Westerlund: But, this only happened in the last month when I went down to see Renny Terry and I was here to see Mr. Fox and I got these figures from Mr. Fox. This is in the last month so anything that' s on there, how could any- thing get changed around. Mr. Heuser: It all depends on your road frontage, Mr. Westerlund. Mr. Westerlund: The road frontage doesn't change. I have been there since 124 and the road has been the same. Mr. Moisa: The county map has the figures on it. Mr. Westerlund: There' s the county map figures right there - 60 and 80 and 60 and 60. What I would like to change I don't think could have come before you. Mr. Heuser: 120 foot full depth of your two pieces of property? Mr. Westerlund: In the back, yes. And in the front, it's 140. Mrs. Lytle: It could be a case of increasing this five feet and reducing this five feet. Mr. Heuser: The indications are that it is all based on your footage and your property is irregular. The map here shows you have more on one than you have on the other. Mr. Westerlund: All ZI want to know is why it got up so high. I am in what you almost say is a depressed area. You turn around and you get these land speculators with a lot of money. They come in a buy the property up around me and the next thing you know - they paid alot of money for this here land-- Mrs. Lytle: But, you haven't been raised since 172. Mr. Westerlund: I know but I haven't had time to get here but that was at one time $100 and $200 if you look at it. Mrs. Lytle: That' s going back some years. Mr. Westerlund: Like I say, we have this land here all overgrown land that these speculators have and I'm at the same $1100 on two little pieces of land compared. They're deteriorating my value, for one thing, just because they poured alot of money and it' s not farmed any more. It is grown up wild. You look outside there alongside the state highway and it' s grown up into groves. You have rats coming around, you've got possums and racoons in the whole Grievance Day Town of Southold -43- July 20, 1976 area. I'm not kidding. Mrs. Lytle : You have them everywhere, but Main Street. Mr. Heuser: You are right alongside Johnny Brush? Mr. Westerlund: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: Have you gentlemen any other questions? Mr. Brown: I want to see on the two papers what he wants it reduced to. Ms. Schwicker: $200 on the one and $400 on the other. Mrs. Lytle: You are asking for just a reduction on the land. Mr. Heuser: There' s a distinct possibility of changing your front footage. What you are going to do is rob Peter to pay Paul. Mr. Westerlund: You would have to look at my hunk of crooked property to understand why I have to split it. Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Heuser was telling you if you changed the frontage of the two houses, it still would total the same. Mr. Westerlund: I know but I am in the process of wanting to. Mrs. Lytle: Any more questions? We will consider it and you will hear from us in about two week' s time. #9. Rene Gendron, Box 1278, Southold, New York. Property located on Youngs Avenue, Southold N - Rositzke E - K. Downs S - M. A. Wiegand W - Youngs Avenue Land - $800 Land and Buildings - $6700 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. Gendron. Mrs. Lytle: I will read the note for everybody. "To the south side of my property is Wiegand valued at $3900. " Are you talking about the land being reduced? Mr. Gendron: No, the whole property, land and property. Ms. Schwicker: He wants a reduction of $300 in his taxes. That is in taxes- not assessed valuation. Mrs. Lytle: He means assessed valuation. Grievance Day Town of Southold -44- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: When you say $300 reduction. Mr. Gendron: My taxes will be about $1150 some odd dollars. Mrs. Lytle: We want the assessed valuation. Mr. Gendron: I'm not a tax person. Mrs. Lytle: Do you want it on the land or the house? Mr. Gendron: On the land and the house. Mr. Brown: What you are saying, if your total tax was $1,000, you want it reduced to $700? Mr. Gendron: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: The assessed valuation is $6,700. What does he want the assessment reduced to? Mr. Gendron: One neighbor is $6500 and the other neighbor is $6900. I mean $3500 and $3900. The lots are practically the same. Mr. Heuser: What has occurred here, you have done some building or renovating? Mr. Gendron: I renovated but I didn't make the building any bigger, it is the same size. Mr. Heuser: He renovated in 1974 and he got an estimated increase of $2,000 at that time, a tentative increase, and then they went back and reappraised you. The question • remains what you did do to justify that increase in your assessment. Mr. Gendron: It was a commercial telephone building at one time and now I have it as a residence. It' s a higher rate when it' s commercial. This is residence and on either side of me, it doesn't jibe. Mrs. Lytle: Do you want to answer that question as far as commercial and residence. Mr. Moisa: The valuation as far as a residence is concerned the building is not different whether it is residence, business zone or commercial zone. The structure is still there the same and that is what his assessment is based on, the building. Mr. Heuser: What did you do there? Grievance Day Town of Southold -45- July 20, 1976 Mr. Gendron: On the inside it was one big room with ten foot ceilings and all one big room with nothing divided. I divided it up into bedrooms and a bathroom. Mr. Heuser: Did you put the garage in or was it there? Mr. Gendron: I put the garage in. Mrs. Lytle: A garage is an addition. Mr. Gendron: Wiegand has a garage, too. Mrs. Lytle: You also put in a covered patio. Mr. Gendron: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: Those are two additions. SMr. Gendron: I didn't even have to have a building permit. Howard says you don't need a building permit. The building is there. You can finish the inside any way you want to, but the garage I had to have a permit. Mr. Heuser: You only have a, half bath in there? Mr. Gendron: I have a bath and a half. Mr. Heuser: 1400 square feet is $350, the patio 226 square feet at a dollar, with garage $1106. Mr. Gendron: Seeing I have brick, they tell me it' s 25¢ a square foot because I have brick but the other people have a basement which I don't have but that would bring them lower if they had a slab, too. Mrs. Lytle: Did you put an extension on the building? Mr. Gendron: No. Mr. Heuser: A 13 x 11 foot extension was put on that building, one story. Mr. Gendron: That was there when I bought it. Mr. Heuser: Then all you put was the garage and a patio. Forthat they increased you 680 square feet. Mr. Moisa: May I say that the prior assessment was a partial and this was the complete assessment as of this year on that because it is completed. Ms. Schwicker: When did you purchase the house? Mr. Gendron: In 1974 from the telephone company. Grievance Day Town of Southold -46- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: You paid $18,000 for it in 1974? Mr. Gendron: I spent $8400 estimated remodeling the inside. Mr. Heuser: A total of $27,000 round figures. Mr. Gendron: That includes the garage, too. Mr. Heuser: On the basis of your own figures, you have $27,000 into that house and if you take 25%, which is the town rate of evaluation, the town is appraising that house at $10,800. Mr. Gendron: You are saying it should be assessed for $10,800 instead of $6,700. Is that what you mean? Mr. Heuser: No. They have given you a concession. In other words, if you put $27,000 into that house and we use the basic 25% that the town uses to establish the rateable figure, that would be $10,800, but they only assessed you at $6,700 which is $3,100 less than what they could have assessed you at using the full 25%. Do you follow me? Mr. Gendron: How come I am assessed so much more than the house to the south which I think is a better house than what I've got? Mr. Heuser: The wooden house? Mr. Gendron: Yes. Just because it' s got brick, it' s 25¢ a square foot more. Mr. Heuser: You'll take a brick house over a wooden house 40 any day. Mrs. Lytle: You'd get an insurance break. Mr. Gendron: I've got hot air heat. Mrs. Lytle: This says hot water heat. Mr. Gendron: No. I am still using the old furnace that was in there. Mr. Heuser: It says hot water. Mrs. Lytle: Do you know anything about that? Mr. Moisa: Most of the houses use hot water. We didn't go inside. Grievance Day Town of Southold -47- July 20, 1976 Mr. Gendron: There was hot air heat in there the whole time. Mr. Moisa: Heat is heat, there is no difference. Mr. Gendron: I thought there was a difference with hot water heat. Mr. Moisa: Ncton an assessment. Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Fox, what about heat? Mr. Fox: They are all good heats. We don't appraise that finely. It doesn't make any difference in the assessment. Mr. Heuser: Which house were you talking about that. . . . . • Mr. Gendron: The one to the south, Wiegand. Mr. Heuser: They were assessed at $3900. Mr. Gendron: Yes, against my $6700. I know that I should pay more than her, but not that much. Mr. Heuser: 1966. Mr. Gendron: It is strange that heat doesn't make a difference because hot water heat costs three or four times more than it does for hot air. It' s not as good but it was there. Mrs. Lytle: Any questions? Mr. Heuser: There would be one question in my mind. (He pointed at something on the card. ) Mrs. Lytle: We can't question that but we could make our decision to a point on that. Mr. Heuser: I would like to disqualify myself on a decision because I know the gentleman quite well. (Mr. Heuser completed a form disqualifying himself on this presentation. ) Mm Lytle: Does anyone have any more questions? (All answered in the negative. ) O.K. thank you for coming in. You will hear from us in a couple of weeks. x#10. Mr. and Mrs. Edwin Hoenig, 875 Victoria Drive, Southold, New York. Property located at 875 Victoria Drive, Southold. Grievance Day Town of Southold -48- July 20, 1976 N - H. Hoenig E - Victoria Drive S - R. J. Connolly W - S. Parish Realty Land - $600 Land and Buildings - $4700 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. and Mrs. Hoenig. Mr. Heuser: May I see your tax bill. I think one of the reasons that that has been raised is you did some renovating? Mr. Hoenig: Let me explain something to you. We had an existing porch. We had a roof, we had a foundation. We had a screened-in porch. We put a garage on since we bought the house, back in 1972. That garage was assessed for $500. Mrs. Hoenig: We didn't question that. Mr. Hoenig: We spent $2750 on the garage. It' s 24 x 24. Then, they come along and assessed me for the screened-in porch that I enclosed. The foundation was existing and the roof was existing. My bone of contention was that it was already existing in the assessed valuation - the roof and the porch. Now, as far as the enclosure is concerned, I thought the $700 was high. Mrs. Lytle: How did you enclose it, with what? Mr. Hoenig: I put siding on the sides and five windows and a sliding door. • Mrs. Lytle: In other words, you made more or a room of it than a porch? Mr. Hoenig: No, it is the same room. Mrs. Lytle: It is a room, though. It is no longer a porch. Mrs. Hoenig: That' s right. Mr. Heuser: Is it 14 x 16? Mr. Hoenig: That ' s right. Mrs. Lytle: This is now a room with walls. Mrs. Hoenig: That' s right but what you don't understand is it already had the posts and everything in. I had called down here when we decided to close in that screened-in porch Grievance Day Town of Southold -49- July 20, 1976 to find out how we go about this. When we put the garage, we never questioned. We knew all this. I said will this make a difference, will I have to have a building permit, will there be a change in assessed valuation and everything. I don't know. I should have had whomever I spoke to' s name. They said as long as you have an existing roof and an existing foundation and your side things in, it is not an addition per se to your house. Do you get what I mean. It is just enclosing what already existed and here they are charging us $700 for like one-third. Mrs. Lytle: You did not extend over the original boundaries of that porch? Mrs. Hoenig: No, these are the original boundaries, the original roof and the original foundation. It was all there. Mrs. Lytle: Will you enlighten me. Where they had the existing foundation, the existing four post and the roof, it was a screen porch. They enclose it and make it a room, with windows and walls. Mr. Moisa: It is treated as a room. Mrs. Lytle: In other words, it would be questionable who gave you the general information because it is considered a room once it is enclosed. Mrs. Hoenig: Actually, it is my understanding that when you put an addition on your house, that is changing your house. We still had the roof and we still had the foundation. If we had put, like when we put the garage, there was nothing there. Alright, that' s a new structure, that' s an addition. We never questioned that. Mrs. Lytle: There is a vast difference between a screened porch and an enclosed room. Mr. Hoenig: I used my own labor. Mrs. Lytle: But, your labor is still valuable. This form says full market value of property $30,000, assessed valuation of property $4700. The amount of overvaluation claimed is $200? Mrs. Hoenig: What he is saying is that they gave us $700 assessed valuation and he figures where we paid only $500 for the garage. . . . We want to decrease that by $200. He thinks $500 is a fairer figure than $700. Grievance Day Town of Southold -50- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: This is your total assessed value at the moment - $4,700. That' s the figure we're dealing with. You want that reduced. Mrs. Hoenig: No, the new figure is $5400. That we want reduced. I think it should be reduced to $5200. Mr. Heuser: Getting back to the material that went into this so-called, let' s call it a room. It cost you $952. Mr. Hoenig: That was the materials. Mr. Heuser: For the windows and so forth. Mr. Hoenig: I did the interior. It was $904 for the guy that did the roughing. He set the windows. . . . Mrs. Lytle: This is partial labor. Is that for the exterior? Mrs. Hoenig: Yes. Mr. Hoenig: I did all the panelling and the insulation. Mrs. Lytle: You are up to $1856. Mr. Heuser: Four per cent of that is $730. Mr. Hoenig: On the garage, I spent $2765 and they only put $500 on it. Mr. Fox: May I remind you that a garage is an unfinished structure inside. A garage cannot be compared to a finished room. Mrs. Lytle: It would generally be a single wall construction. Mr. Heuser: Is there heat in there? Mr. Hoenig: We have an electric heater and I put a pipe into my duct line. We can't get it in there because it is solid cement. In the winter time we have to close it off. We can't use it. Mrs. Lytle: Any questions? (All answered in the negative. ) Thank you for coming in. We will consider it and you will hear from us in about two weeks' time. ##11. Theodore James, Jr. , Box 204, Peconic, New York. Property located on Indian Neck Lane, Peconic. Grievance Day Town of Southold -51- July 20, 1976 N - Jehovah' s Witnesses E - M. Nelsen S - Nola Tuthill W - Indian Neck Lane Land - $700 Land and Buildings - $2800 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. James. Mrs. Lytle: Would you care to tell us the reasons you think you are overassessed? Mr. James: My taxes were almost doubled in one year which came as quite a shock to me, particularly since no improve- ments had been made on the house, one, and , two, things are, for instance, I live here all year round. I have to get out in parts of the winter because the house is too icold. The heating system is fifty years old and does not heat the upstairs. There is no insulation in that house at all. The stucco which holds the house together where I am restoring it. That' s why I bought it because my back- ground is in architecture among other things and I do enjoy it, but the stucco is falling off the house which I have to put all back together. The upstairs, the plaster is all coming down. In the meantime, behind me they put up a warehouse, it is just a junkyard on Spring Lane, which all the neighbors got together and petitioned something to be done about it so he wouldn't run a junkyard over there and nothing has happened. I have to look out on that. I just felt that the double tax assessment was a little bit steep and unfair. Mr. Heuser: You purchased the house on July 22, 1974. • And your assessed valuation was increased on May 9, 1975. Mr. James: Yes. Why didn't I come in last year? I knew nothing about it. This is the first house I have ever owned. I got my tax bill and to me it meant nothing. It was just alot numbers. I didn't know what this meant and what that meant or anything. I saw the assessment and I figured if it' s reasonable and it goes up 15 or 20%, that' s what I assumed by looking at it. I just thought that was awfully steep. The house needs a great deal of work. The underpinnings - I have to have the whole house. . . . Mr. Heuser: You have it insured at just what you paid for it, Mr. James, $26,000? Mr. James: The house. Mr. Heuser: The house, in your thinking, is worth $26,000? Grievance Day Town of Southold -52- July 20, 1976 Mr. James: There has to be some engineering done underneath the dining room, too, because the supports are rotted by termites. Although the termites have been exterminated, they have to be. Mr. Ahlers who looked at the house said I would have to have the supports put in. Mrs. Lytle: That is part of the interior of the house, right? Mr. James: The construction. Well, if they go, the whole house falls down and Southold loses one of its jewels. Mrs. Lytle: It would not show from the outside is what I meant. Mr. James: Of course not, no. Mr. Heuser: Again, we have to ask this question and you'll have to be tolerant. You apparently examined the house • before you bought it? Mr. James: I had an engineer look at it, yes, Mr. Ahlers. Mr. Heuser: Was it in that condition when you purchased it? Mr. James: The underpinnings were but the stucco hadn't begun to fall off. Mr. Heuser: How about the interior we were discussing? Mr. James: The problem there is there was a leak in the side where the stucco was coming off and all the water has been leaking in so the plaster is going. That happened since I bought the house. There is a nice big hole right there and it is cracking all along here. Unfortunately, I • would like to take that stucco off that was put around 1900 and reshingle, but the problem is that people say that the stucco is the only thing holding the house up. Another thing, I have to when it gets cold whether I'm there or not, I have to drain my pipes. Mrs. Lytle: Your mortgage is $18,0007 Mr. James: There is one mortgage and my parents hold a second mortgage on it. They helped me out. Mrs. Lytle: The purchase price is $26,500, the mortgage is $18,000 and the assessed valuation of the property is $2800. This whole thing is based on what you figured the property was worth when you bought it, what your mortgage is and the assessors looked at the outside of the house and the land and appraised it. Basically, it' s appraised, you're getting a break, I would say. It is appraised at less than your mortgage. Grievance Day Town of Southold -53- July 20, 1976 Mr. James: My parents gave me $13,000 to buy that house. Mrs. Lytle: You show $18,000. Mr. James: Well, that' s the second mortgage that my parents hold. The other mortgage the sellers hold. Mrs. Lytle: You evidently paid $26,500 for it. Mr. James: That' s what I paid for it, yes. Mrs. Lytle: Are there any other questions? Since there are no other questions, we thank you for coming in and we will let you know in about two weeks' time. We do not make decisions today. #12. William A. Lindsay, Mattituck, New York. Property located . on Bergen Avenue, Mattituck. N - Bergen Avenue E - B. Mendozza and another S - B. Mendozza and another W - W. Chudiak Land - $1200 Land and Buildings - $4900 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. Lindsay. Mr. Heuser: Which house was that on Bergen Avenue? Oh, we're not ready. Mrs. Lytle: How much land did you sell? How big a piece of land did you sell? Mr. Lindsay: That this building was on? Nine acres, but they had it in two parcels so the building was only on 4-1/2 acres. It was sold. My brother bought a half and I bought half and I bought Bob out. Mr. Heuser: Your own house on Bergen Avenue, where was this house you moved. Mr. Lindsay: It was a potato house on the north side of the road. Mr. Heuser: I think at one time your land went from farmland to building land. You gave up part of your farm. Mr. Lindsay: That' s on the south side. Grievance Day Town of Southold -54- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: That' s what I'm talking about. Mr. Lindsay: That has nothing to do with this. Mr. Heuser: You are talking about the north side of the road? This is the south side. Mr. Lindsay: I sold it to Mendozza. Mr. Heuser: I think what we are trying to find out is in 1974, they changed the value of your land from farmland to building value. Is that correct? Mr. Lindsay: I sold that to Mendozza. Mrs. Lytle: How much land did you sell Mendozza? Mr. Lindsay: 16.8. • Mrs. Lytle: You sold the farmland and you were left with residential land and the rate on the residential land is much higher than on the farmland. Do you understand? That' s why your land. . . . . . Mr. Lindsay: I'm not kicking about the land. I am kicking about the building that I moved from the north side of the road to the south side of the road. Mr. Heuser: The potato house. Mrs. Lytle: It' s a potato house with a brick foundation and a clapboard roof? Mr. Heuser: That has nothing to do with it. This is where he lives. The argument is on the potato house that he contends. They have no picture of the potato house I would say. Mr. Heuser: Who has Mattituck? Mr. Kelsey: I have. It' s right there. There ' s the potato house. Mr. Brown: The potato house has been moved onto this property? Mr. Lindsay: Take that letter and that will explain. This is on the north side of Bergen Avenue. It was a piece of property about nine acres. There was a potato house on it. There was a building on that property in 1974 and 75 that was taxed $172.61. I didn't move the potato off it in Grievance Day Town of Southold -55- July 20, 1976 time so I had to pay the taxes on it. He charged me for that taxes $172. I moved that building over on the south side of the road. Mrs. Lytle: That' s the side the house is on. Mr. Lindsay: That ' s the side the house is on. My property in 1974 and 175 was taxed for $199.17. So, with the building on it, it would be taxed $199 and $172 which have made $371. Mrs. Lytle: But, you are giving us the tax rather than the assessed valuation. Mr. Heuser: It' s alright. I see his point. Pardon me, Bill, let me see your tax bill before you moved the potato house. (Mr. Lindsay showed him the bill. ) And this is . the new one on the south side. Did your taxes go from $199 to $709 just for moving the potato house? Mr. Lindsay: That' s right. That' s all that I can see that I have done. You have to give some credit in there. My property in 1974 was for $199.17 with the buildin on it and add the $172 is $371. In 1975-76 I am taxed 708. So you take that $371 away from $708 and I am raised $337. Mr. Heuser: In other words, by moving that potato house from the north side of the road to the south side of the road, they increased his valuation $2700. Mr. Lindsay: They increased my valuation from $1500 to $4900. Mr. Heuser: What are y©u using the potato house for now? Mr. Lindsay: I don't use it for nothing. My boy uses it but I have no revenue from it at all. Mr. Heuser: What does he use it for? Mr. Lindsay: A potato house, but I have no income from it. Mrs. Lytle: Did you do this? Mr. Kelsey: Yes, but bear in mind in '74 we had a review of that whole area - Captain Kidd Estates. It was a review area. The house went up because Bill was doing some alterations at the time. It was a low rate to start with and that' s the reason why the land is changed and, also, the dwelling, not only the removal of the potato storage house from across the street. Grievance Day Town of Southold -56- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: In other words, the point to keep in the back of your head is the revaluation of all the properties took in that year and they increased the value of your home, too. Don't consider it all the potato house. Mrs. Lytle : It was the Mattituck thing two years ago when they all came down. Mrs. Lindsay: In 174 and'75 it was only $199.17. Mr. Heuser: Let me help you. In 1974-75 you were assessed for $1500 and now you are assessed for $4900 but according to Mel, they reappraised your property and they raised the value of the house substantially. Your house increased in value on the books. Do you follow that, Bill? Would you permit that to be explained, Mrs. Chairlady. Would you permit the reassessment and revaluation to Mr. Lindsay' s house to be explained again by Mel to you so you in turn can pick it up. Mrs. Lytle: I want to look at some of his statements here first off. He figures the market value of the property as $35,000. Mr. Heuser: You only have about an acre and a quarter of land left over there by your house. Mr. Lindsay: 150 x 400. Mr. Heuser: The house, I remember when your parents lived there. Mrs. Lytle: What is your construction in 1958? What does that refer to? What building went up in 1958. Mr. Lindsay: This potato house. Mrs. Lytle: That was the potato house. It cost you $700, right? Mr. Lindsay: $7,000. Mrs. Lytle: Your house, and I assume you mean just your house, when you say the property is insured for $15,000. Is that your house? Mr. Lindsay: No, that' s all the buildings. Mrs. Lytle: All the buildings at $15,000. You also say you believe you are entitled to a partial exemption for the aged. That would have to be filed before June 1st for partial exemption and it would depend upon your income. Grievance Day Town of Southold -57- July 20, 1976 Mr. Lindsay: I did and I was $54 over. Mr. Heuser: So, they turned you down. One of those things, Bill. Mrs. Lytle: Would you like to explain carefully again so we will have it on the tape. Mr. Kelsey: We went down there in 1974, reviewed the entire area including the next door neighbor, Bill Chudiak, the increase in the assessed valuation on your house included the potato storage building that you moved from the north side to the south side of the road. Mr. Heuser: Did you also increase Chudiak' s? Mr. Kelsey: Yes. • Mr. Lindsay: I got an increase of $3400. Mr. Heuser: That' s your home and the potato house. Mr. Lindsay: Before the potato house was on there, I was only assessed for $1500, so the only thing that put me up was the potato house. Mr. Brown: They went through the whole area and reassessed everybody. That' s why it went up, not because of the potato house. Ms. Schwicker: If you hadn't put the potato house on there , it wouldn't have made any difference. You would have been reassessed anyhow. . Mr. Brown: Whether the potato house was there or not, it still would have gone up, way up. Mr. Robb: You are also taxed on your main house. You said just because of the potato house. That' s not so. Your reassessment included your main home as well as the potato house. You were reassessed on the entire property. Ms. Schwicker: It just happened that it was a coincidence that you had the potato house on there at the same time. Mrs. Lytle: We are not questioning you, Mr. Kelsey, at all, when we ask further questions of Mr. Fox. We are puzzled and we want to make sure that we understand. We understand that this has been reassessed when all Mattituck was reassessed two or three years ago. Can you give us an explanation? Are you familiar with it at all? Grievance Day Town of Southold -58- July 20, 1976 Mr.Fox: His land went down to here when he sold out to Mendozza. Here, we get into the apportionment again. Mrs. Lytle: We understand the land, it is the house. Mr. Fox: I have to explain the whole thing to you. Here we get the apportionment, then here' s the review. This house was on very, very low. This was on the split to Mendozza. This house was never before measured and put on the rolls like that. When this split took place and it had never been reviewed after that. Ms. Schwicker: He is under the impression that this happened because he put the potato house on the property. Mr. Fox: Well, if he added any buildings to it, also. The potato house increases it by 1080 but that isn't the . total increase. This figure is the apportionment and this is the review. Mr. Heuser: You're intimating that Bill Lindsay' s house was not reappraised for ten or fifteen years. Ms. Fox: Yes, it was a long time. I don't know how long. Mr. Heuser: Your house hadn't been reappraised for over fifteen years or twenty years so, naturally, the value of the house went up. One way to look at it is for nineteen years, you had a low appraisal on that house. The town assessors only appraised your house at $15,000 in round figures for their tax rate. You, yourself, appraise it at roughly $35,000. Mr. Lindsay: That would be with the property. Mr. Heuser: You only have an acre of property. What could you get for it - $11,000 or $12,000, where you are. Mr. Lindsay: I don't care about that. All I done to that house was I pulled the porch off it and fixed over the kitchen. Now, you are going to jump me from $1500 to $4900. Mr. Heuser: Again, quoting Mr. Fox, the thing that you are losing track of and we are trying to accept is that you had no increase in your value of that house for nineteen years. Everything went up in nineteen years. Mr. Lindsay: I don't think that I have been taxed the same for the last nineteen years. Grievance Day Town of Southold -59- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: When we took this card over here, your house was only appraised at $1,000. Mr. Lindsay: Let me ask you a question. Now, my boy lives within of me and my daughter lives within a thousand feet. They have brand new houses and they pay less taxes than I do. Mr. Heuser: How much land do they have? Mr. Lindsay: 100 x 150. Mr. Heuser: That' s all they got on a new house? Ms. Schwicker: His property is bigger and he has more buildings. Mr. Heuser: The potato house is an operating function, is • that right? Ms. Fox: He says they pay less taxes than he does. He is taking all the property put together so he is taking all of his property put together here. They have no potato house on their property. Mr. Lindsay: That' s what I say. You are making me pay the balance for the potato house. Mrs. Lytle: You have a potato house, shed, workshop which they approximately figured $1180 or $1200. Mr. Heuser: Let us review it, Bill. Mrs. Lytle: We'll review it and you'll hear from us in • about two weeks time. Does anybody else have any questions? Thank you very much. #13. Henry and Rose Kordal, Christopher and Johanna Stabile, Kings Park, New York. Property located on Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue, New York. Subdivision of Nassau Point Club Properties, Inc. Lot - 2/3 of 81 Land - $19000 Land and Buildings - $7,000 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Rose Kordal and Johanna Stabile. Mrs. Lytle: You want your assessment reduced to $4800? Mrs. Kordal: Right. Grievance Day Town of Southold -60- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: The total assessed valuation is $7,000 total. Mrs. Kordal: The new total. Mrs. Lytle: You have this property insured for $70,000. Mrs. Kordal: By Allstate Insurance. Mrs. Lytle: You say the full market value is $80,000. Why do you feel it should be reduced, may I ask? Mrs. Kordal: Well, I feel it should be reduced because, one, when we put this addition in, we really lost a room. We didn't gain a room. We put in an inside entrance for the garage. Actually, I did not gain any living space at all. • Mrs. Lytle: There is a big difference between a garage and an additional rooms. Mrs. Kordal: It is a two-car garage and, above it, we have a family room, a parlor. Mrs. Lytle: It' s a big family room if it' s over a two-car garage, then, isn't it? Mrs. Kordal: It' s just a playroom which my husband and brother-in-law. . . . . Mrs. Lytle: But, it' s still a room. Mrs. Kordal: Yes, but we lost the dining room in order to do that. Mrs. Lytle: That dining room became your entryway or passageway. Then, you didn't lose a room, you have sort of a foyer. Mrs. Kordal: It is really a useless room. Mrs. Lytle: The assessors work on assessing your property at 259 of the assumed value of the place. You are, if I am correct, the assessed valuation is $7,000. Mrs. Kordal: That' s the new valuation. Mrs. Lytle: If we were to take that as one quarter of what the assessors figured, then the value would be figured at $28,000. Yet, you have that place insured for $80,000. Mrs. Kordal: It' s insured for $70,000. The market value is $80,000. Grievance Day Town of Southold -61- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: My error. In other words, you, yourself figure the house is worth $80,000? Mrs. Kordal: According to the real estate agent, that' s all we can get but may I tell you the reason why. One, we have a paper road on that. There is a paper road on that property. Mrs. Lytle: What do you mean by that? Mrs. Kordal: Let me show you the survey. There is a paper road on that property. When we bought this property, the real estate agent said they had a tough time selling because of that and it was overgrown. It was an abandoned house. We had to paint the inside and outside to make it livable. It was just an awful place but the price was right because we couldn't afford any more. So we bought it but actually it wasn't a livable place. Mrs. Lytle: But, we aren't talking about when you bought it. We are talking about what it is today. Mrs. Kordal: Actually, we didn't gain that much by putting this over the two-car garage. Mrs. Lytle: Just a minute, I want to ask Mr. Fox about this road bit. Can you enlighten us about that road? Mr. Fox: She is correct about the paper road. There are many of them in Nassau Point. She was well aware of this when she bought it. Mrs. Kordal: Yes, we were aware of it. We bought it because the price was right. Mr. Fox: Hardly anybody realizes it' s there unless they get a map of Nassau Point and look for it. Only those that have it in their deed may use it. Mrs. Lytle: Is it in your deed, the use of it. Mrs. Kordal: Yes. Mr. Fox: It has reached the point that none of these paper roads in Nassau Point become a nuisance because they are not used. They don't even bother with them. But, she was aware of it when she bought it. Mrs. Lytle: We saw the picture, it shows up pretty clearly. You have it marked here as a summer house. Whether it is summer, winter or all year round, that does not necessarily affect the value. Mrs. Kordal: I realize that. When it comes to heat, it' s marginal heat. You couldn't possibly live there in the Grievance Day Town of Southold -62- July 20, 1976 winter. You would die of the cold. When you have a chill or a cool night, then you have to have some kind of heat, but it is marginal. Mrs. Lytle: You have electric baseboard heating. Mrs. Kordal: It is partial, though, not throughout the whole, it is partial. It is just in case it' s a cool night that we have some kind of heat. Mr. Heuser: The lady mentioned that they lost the use of a room. That 10 x 10 was incorporated into your family room. Mrs. Kordal: No, it wasn't. Mr. Heuser: This is what you lost. Is that correct? Mrs. Kordal: Yes. That' s the room that we lost. Mr. Heuser: What is it? Mrs. Lytle: It' s just a passageway, they don't consider it a room. Mr. Heuser: Then, it is like a breezeway or passageway. Mrs. Stabile: You couldn't consider it a room, really. Mr. Fox: It is part of the square footage of the residence and is recognized as such. It is still there and it has its use. Mrs. Lytle: Anybody else any questions? Mr. Heuser: $9500 was the amount of the addition that you folks put on there and 25% of that in round figures is $2500. If you add $2500 on the original assessed value, right there it brings you up to $6700 instead of $7000 on your tax base. Do you get what I mean? Mrs. Kordal: No, I don't. Would you explain it to me again, please. Mr. Heuser: You had a tax base of $3200 in 1965, by the way, eleven years ago. Many, many people have been reappraised over that period of time, maybe once or twice. Therefore, you had no reappraisal for eleven years and you put round figures talking, $10,000 into the addition. And if the appraised valuation for tax purposes is 25Y, that would mean $2500 that your tax base would go up. It is 25% of $10,000, so if you add $2500 to your $4200, you are up to $6700 already without taking into consideration you haven't been appraised for eleven years. Grievance Day Town of Southold -63- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Kordal: We only bought the house three years ago. Mr. Heuser: That' s still the tax base it is on. Mrs. Kordal: I can't understand it. Mr. Heuser: When you bought it, it had an appraised value of. . . . Mrs. Lytle: $55,000 when they bought it. Mrs. Kordal: But, we were told at the time that in order to put this in shape, it would cost us about $15,000. Mr. Heuser: You still paid $55,000 for it even when you knew you weregoing to spend $15,000 more. Mrs. Kordal: Actually, the cost was $70,000. To restore the house to a livable condition, because it wasn't really livable, if you had seen it. Mrs. Lytle : Any more questions, gentlemen? We will review it and you will hear from us in about two weeks' time. Thank you for coming in. #14. Valentine Ruch IV, Southold, New York. Property located on Route 27A, Head of Arshamomaque Pond, North Road, Southold. N - North Road E - G. Tsoukatos & wife S - Creek W - District #5 Land - $1600 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. Ruch. Mrs. Lytle: What was the acreage before you sold that pieee, for our general information? Mr. Ruch: The whole acreage was 2.806. This is a letter from Mr. Fox addressed to Mr. Stankevich. Mrs. Lytle read the letter to herself. Mrs. Lytle: I just read that very quickly. Is this a case of. . . Mr. Fox: It was one piece and he sold a part out of the middle which meant we had to make three separate assessments. Mrs. Lytle: Are you talking about taxes on two pieces of land now. Mr. Ruch: No, just the one. Those figures are the difference Grievance Day Town of Southold -64- July 20, 1976 between the assessed valuation, what they were last year and what they will be next year. Mr. Heuser: Do you have the 1975-76 tax bill there? Mrs. Lytle: In other words, you have wetlands. To the best of my knowledge. . . . . Mr. Ruch: There can be no building of any kind beyond that line. I almost had it sold last fall but, unfortunately, the builder didn't want to go in here somewhere and be so close to the road. Now, my proposition is to attempt to fill the land up to that point so at least it will only be 100 feet back from the water. Mrs. Lytle : Have you got this up before the ,Planning Board or the Town Board of something? Mr. Ruch: No, it was approved the way it was. These two were struck off from the whole piece and they had to be a full acre. They are more than an acre. The whole thing was at one time three acres. Mrs. Lytle: Your reason for claiming it is overassessed is because you can't use this land? Is that your reason? Mr. Ruch: Yes. I don't know what anyone else pays along the creek. The strange thing is the little piece of property went up from $600 to $800, that' s 25%. Mrs. Lytle: You are paying $20 a foot for your frontage on the water. You have eighty feet on the water. Mr. Ruch: That' s probably true, yes. Mrs. Lytle: $20 a foot makes it $1600 assessment. Your average depth is 300 feet. Mr. Ruch: That' s true. Mrs. Lytle: Now, your real beef is that you can 't use it. Mr. Ruch: I am told by the DEC that they will not authorize fill beyond that line because there is some marsh grass in here that they want to save. Mr. Heuser: You are referring to this line here and your property is over there. I have to get the connection between this and this. Mr. Ruch: This is the piece of proerty I would like to sell. Mrs. Lytle: I believe this is the standard rate for this and, as far as wetlands or what have you, the DEC, I don't Grievance Day Town of Southold -65- July 20, 1976 think we have any. . . . . . Mr. Fox: (inaudible) Until we get notice that it is not saleable. I think it is quite pertinent if you would ask the question of what he sold this one piece for. Mrs. Lytle: I think this comes under the whole bit where anyone has waterfront is wetlands and you can't use it. Ms. Schwicker: 100 feet back that can't be used. Mr. Ruch: I have an application in Albany now to see if they will even permit this. This can be done by the office in Stony Brook. Mr. Fox: I would not use the term that he cannot use it. It can be used for many things. He is restricted in its use, but don't say he cannot use it. Ms. Schwicker: He can't bulkhead it or something like that. Mr. Fox: He may be restricted in its use. Mr. Ruch: I can build a walkway over it. Mrs. Lytle: I am afraid that that may be something that we don't have jurisdiction over. Mr. Fox: The procedure on this is it supercedes the Board of Appeals and everything else. They have to make their appeal direct but it' s the same way there as here, you have to wait and see. He has not got a decision on it. He may be restricted, as he said but he can use. These other lots have the same problem. Mr. Brown: Once the DEC makes a decision, then the Town can go from there. Mrs. Lytle: This is what is hitting everybody with water- front property. Whether it' s on a creek or bay, inlet or the Sound or the ocean, they have all received notices. We looked at aerial maps and everybody is being told - restrictions. If I remember correctly, they said it goes into effect, they hope, in November. Then, the assessors will be notified of all these changes and what the different towns are going to do and what is going to happen, I don't think anybody knows. This is what applies to any- body with any type of water by their property. I don't think we have any control over this. Mr. Ruch: My objection is I am being taxed for a piece of property that I can't use except for a walkway to the water. Mrs. Lytle: I understand that. All of us with waterfront property in the state is affected by this. It is statewide. Grievance Day Town of Southold -66- July 20, 1976 Mr. Ruch: This didn't exist in the past and all the houses that are built are twenty or thirty years old. Mrs. Lytle : I' ll tell you what I will do. I will try to learn a little bit more about it, if I can, but I think that ' s about all we can do. I feel sorry for you. I find myself in the same boat. Mr. Fox : Like she said, until a final decision is reached, there is nothing we can do on it. When and if there is a decision made, then definitely something will be done. Mrs. Lytle: Somewheres in that booklet it says that the State will notify all the assessors. Mr. Ruch: I had to come today because today is the day you will hear me. • Mrs. Lytle : What you did is perfectly alright but that ' s the situation unfortunately. Mr. Ruch: You won't be meeting again when this is finally decided, will you? Mrs. Lytle : The only other thing and I don't know if I am in order or out of order, but you could pay your taxes under protest and then see what happens. Mr. Ruch: Do you want me to let you know when I hear from Stony Brook? Mrs. Lytle : We will write you in about two weeks' time to let you know if any action can be taken. #15. Marjorie J. Nezin, 1 Central Avenue, Amityville, New York. Property located at 530 Main Street, Greenport N - Otis Burt E - Carpenter Street S - A. T. Brooks and another W - Main Street Land - $1200 Land and Buildings - $6500 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. Len Nezin who appeared for his wife, Marjorie J. Nezin. Mrs. Lytle : I will read this quickly. This is from Marjorie Nezin. "Whereas the property of the complainant was assessed at a fractional value and not at full value as prescribed by law; and whereas undervaluation makes it difficult to ascertain whether there is uniformity of assessment or inequality as a result of incompetence, favoritism or corruption. " Grievance Day Town of Southold -67- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle : I would like to answer that right now. All property in the Town of Southold is assessed at 25% of its value. That is uniform in the Town - everybody. "The complainant demands that all information be supplied to the complainant : work sheets, file cards, methods, judge- ments, considerations, lists of actual sales in the area, cost per square foot of similar property to produce or reproduce, price property would sell for under ordinary circumstances, value as distinguished from price or cost, value price ratio as regard to inflation, replacement costs, cost approach to value, quality-survey method, unit in place comparative square foot or cubic foot, use of "standard house', market approach, income potentials, any and all information that has been used by the assessor to assess the claimant ' s property and that of all the other properties in the Town of Southold, New York, and that there was no collusion on the part of the assessor or assessors or any • person or persons involved with the administration of assessments in or out of the Town of Southold, N.Y. " Mrs. Lytle : Out of five years experience, I do not think that applies. Mr. Nezin: What ' s that, ma 'am? What doesn't apply? Mrs. Lytle: Your asking for all these details. Mr. Nezin: All right - O.K. Mrs. Lytle: It is up to you to give us the information, as I understand it. To the Board of Review also from Mrs. Nezin. "1. The property of the complainant located at 530 Main Street, Greenport is assessed proportionately higher than any other property in the area, which are on the same tax rolls, the lack of uniformity of assessment or inequality is a result of incompetence, corruption, collusion or favoritism, by the assessor or assessors. " Mrs. Lytle : I think immediately I would take objection to that paragraph in the minutes. "Furthermore, the complainant alleges that the assessor or assessors and the Board of Assessors and the Town Board in making this determination acted in an arbitrary and capricious manner and were controlled by suspicion or belief founded in hearsay or by views derived from it. " Mrs. Lytle: As chairman of the board, O.K. , I' ll let it go. "The assessors determination was not ,judicial in character nor governed by law or evidence and will subject the complainant to more than her ,just proportion of the aggregate tax. This is a violation of equal protection. " Grievance Day Town of Southold -68- July 20, 1976 "That none of the property set forth in said assessment roll, including the property herein described, has been assessed at full value, nor upon on common or general principal of valuation which shall apply alike to all real estate within the Town of Southold. " "That in a comparison of a sampling of properties throughout the tax district found that said property was assessed from 43% to over 1,000% proportionately higher. " "That the complainants property was assessed at approximately one hundred and twenty-five percent (125%) more that the previous assessment. From $2,900 to $6,500. " "No improvements were made to this property since 1970 for which an increase was given. " "Complainant believes that the assessment should be • reduced to $2,900. " /s/ Marjorie Nezin Mrs. Lytle : Is the other house still on the piece of property? Mr. Nezin: Yes. Mrs. Lytle : Both houses are? Mr. Nezin: Yes. Mrs. Lytle : It' s a twelve-room house? Mr. Nezin: Which is a twelve-room house? Mrs. Lytle : The big house to the front . Seven on the first floor, five on the second. Mr. Nezin: Is the bathroom counted? Mrs. Lytle: Yes. Mr. Nezin: No, we have five rooms. Mrs. Lytle: Five rooms where? Mr. Nezin: The second floor, four rooms, three bedrooms and a bathroom. There ' s no seven rooms downstairs. There are five down and four up including bathrooms. Mrs. Lytle : Would house number two be the house to the back. Mr. Heuser: The house to the back, would water, electricity and sewage be put in in 1975? Mr. Nezin: No, sir. There was electricity there in 19703 Grievance Day Town of Southold -69- July 20, 1976 water in 1970 and a new sewer line was put to my property in 1975, not to that house in particular. I think that is all hearsay. Mrs. Lytle : Now, you moved the building in 1970. Mr. Nezin: That is correct. Mrs. Lytle : In '72, you had a permit to build a deck. Mr. Nezin: That is correct. Mrs. Lytle : In '75, the property was reviewed and house number two had electricity, water and sewage to it. Mr. Nezin: It always had water, electricity and sewage. Mrs.Lytle : It has always had it? • Mr. Nezin: I shouldn't say always. Shortly after I placed it there, it had electricity under an underwriter' s certificate in 1971, and water. Mrs. Lytle: In 1971, but they didn't catch up to the fact that the stuff was there until 1975. Mr. Heuser: They didn't know that until 1975. Mrs. Lytle : You had the benefit of three years there. Mr. Nezin: Of what? Mrs. Lytle : Of the fact that you had all those improvements in it. Mr. Nezin: I don't consider these improvements. Mrs. Lytle : You mean water, electricity and sewer are not improvements? Mr. Nezin: No. They were there on the property. Mr. Heuser: You said you put it in in '71, sir. Mr. Nezin: That' s right. Mr. Heuser: Well, then, they increased your assessment in '75, four years later. Mr. Nezin: Based on electricity? Mr. Heuser: On improvements. Mrs. Lytle : On all those improvements. Mr. Nezin: Based on having electricity at the house? Mr. Heuser: Electricity, water and sewage. Grievance Day Town of Southold -70- July 20, 1976 Mr. Nezin: The house was assessed after it was placed there. Mr. Heuser: That ' s possible. Mrs. Lytle: In '72 you had a permit for it but they did not increase it on the basis of anything you put in it. Mr. Nezin: Yes, they did. That ' s what they came down for. Mrs. Lytle : You built a deck. Mr. Nezin: No, they never came down for a deck. They came down when the house was moved. Mrs. Lytle : The records here show very plainly what it ' s all about. Mr. Nezin: I don't know if they do, ma 'am. Mrs. Lytle : Now, what did you sell, what part of it did you sell? Mr. Nezin: I never sold anything. Do the records so state? Mr. Heuser: November 27, 1975 sold. . . . . Mr. Nezin: Oh, that ' s transferred to my wife ' s name. Mr. Heuser: Alright, but that ' s the equivalent of a sale as far as your records are concerned. Mrs. Lytle : It says $5,000. Mr. Heuser: What' s that, the back house? • Mr. Nezin: No, that ' s the property. It ' s not two separate pieces of real estate. It ' s one piece of real estate. Mrs. Lytle : It says transfer from L. Nezin and wife to Marjorie J. That ' s all. It didn't change the value of the property. That ' s just a notation. Mr. Heuser: Does that include the whole piece of property that you transferred to your wife' s name? Mr. Nezin: Yes. Mr. Heuser: That you paid $9,000 for in 1970 and sold it to your wife for $5,000 in 1975. Mr. Nezin: I transferred it to my wife. Mr. Heuser: Transferred it? O.K. so that value isn't relevant, in 1975. There are two separate buildings on one piece of taxable property. Do you have a copy of your tax bill there, Mr. Nezin? Mrs. Lytle: This is 1972. Grievance Day Town of Southold -71- July 20, 1976 Mr. Brown: Do you have a later tax bill with you? Mr. Nezin: I have one but I don't have it here at the moment because it is being utilized. Mr. Brown: Do you have a rough idea of what your taxes were last year? That ' s 173-174. Mr. Nezin: I really don't know. The value placed on the small house is greater than my original house. There is an increase of 125%. Mr. Heuser: Get the assessor. Mrs. Lytle: Will you get Mr. Fox, please. Mr. Fox : The last time you spoke you weren't talking too loud. Could you talk louder this time? Mrs. Lytle : Will you clarify on this? The house was moved at one date, and caught up with it at a later date. I gather from this you were not aware that all this was in. Mr. Fox: It wasn't in when it was first moved there. It sat there in the back yard. It had no connection to anything. That ' s a fact. (Referring to property card ) (This one is a permit ) Mr. Nezin: You are swearing that is a fact under oath? Mrs. Lytle : He ' s not under oath. Mr. Nezin: Excuse me, ma'am, but I would like him to be sworn in if he is making a statement. Is he under oath? • Mrs. Lytle : No, he is not under oath at all. He is advising us. Mr. Nezin: If he is making a factual statement, I would like him to be under oath. Mrs. Lytle : You mean to tell me that when you moved that building it had all this electricity and water. Mr. Nezin: Of course not. You can't move the water main. Mrs. Lytle: Alright, you moved the building when? Mr. Nezin: December of 1970. Mrs. Lytle: O.K. , you got the permit in 1970. When did you put the water and. . . . Mr. Nezin: 1971, the early part of it. Mrs. Lytle : In 1971 and, fortunately for you, in 1971, they had not caught up with the fact that you put all that in. Grievance Day Town of Southold -72- July 20, 1976 Mr. Nezin: But they might have not caught up with it. There was an assessor there and he reassessed the building. Mrs. Lytle: The fact you moved the building and then you got a permit to build a deck on it. Mr. Nezin: That ' s 172. Mrs. Lytle: That ' s '72 and they still had not caught up with the fact. It took them until '75 when they were reviewing. . . . . Mr. Nezin: I don't believe they caught up with the fact, ma 'am. I believe it was collusion. How can a man possibly know, just using common sense, if there is a meter outside of the house, the man that is assessing the building, looking at it, there is an electric meter that sits on that building, that anyone can see. No one can see if there is water lines • and sewer lines unless they go under the ground under the building. How could it be ascertained? If you can tell me that, then I will listen. Mr. Fox : Very simply. We check with the Greenport water. Mr. Nezin: Who does he check with? Mrs. Lytle : You check with the Greenport Water. Mr. Fox : With the utility. We check with Long Island Lighting Company. Mr. Nezin: If he isjust advisory, then I have no questions for him. If he is under oath, I would like to ask him some. • Mrs. Lytle : No, he is not under oath. You cannot ask him questions. I can. You can ask me and a member of our board can ask. The main object of your not discussing anything with the assessor is the whole purpose of this meeting. Now, you have taken an oath and you state that that electricity and water and sewage was back in there in 1970 right after you moved the building. Mr. Nezin: That is correct. Mrs. Lytle: In other words, you had the benefit. Mr. Nezin: No, I didn't have the benefit. I don't believe so. Mrs. Lytle : He didn't raise your value that much. Mr. Nezin: May I step backwards in time for a moment? Is this gentleman required now? Mrs. Lytle : Yes, he ' s required to be here. Grievance Day Town of Southold -73- July 20, 1976 Mr. Nezin: The back building was purchased in 1970 from Harry Mitchell. Harry Mitchell had it on his property at Bay Avenue. It was purchased for $200 with the proviso that I be able to move that building to my property at a certain specified time or to any other property. I had a contract with Harry Mitchell, I had a contract with a moving company, telephone company, Village of Greenport, etc. The building was completely intact. It had been rented several summers before. It had a bath tub, a kitchen, all the facilities, toilet, everything that goes into a building including hot water heat. The builders or movers came and took the building off the foundation, put it on the barge, moved it to Greenport, to my property. The following number of months, I don't know the exact date, an assessor came by, by the name of Walker, he worked for the Village of Greenport and reassessed the building for $700 more than it was assessed for on Harry Mitchell' s property. On Harry Mitchell' s property, that building facing Shelter Island, located on waterfront . property, overlooking the Bay, was assessed for $100. That was the assessed valuation for the Town of Southold and the Village of Greenport. Mrs. Lytle : Are you sure of that? Can you prove. . . . Mr. Nezin: Yes, ma 'am, I'm swearing under oath. Mrs. Lytle: Including Southold and Greenport or just Green- port, you mean. Mr. Nezin: To the best information that I have, Southold and Greenport. I complained to the Village of Greenport sometime in '72 after it was assessed by the Village of Greenport. . . . . • Mrs. Lytle : I want you to realize that I am being considerate and listening. What goes on in Greenport and what Greenport Village does, we have absolutely nothing to do with. We are giving you. . . . . . Mr. Nezin: The Town of Southold assessed it at $100. Mrs. Lytle : The Town of Southold? Mr. Nezin: That' s correct. On Harry Mitchell' s property. The $100 was taken off the Town of Southold. Southold did not increase the building any more than $100. When it was put on my property, the Village of Greenport made it $700. Shortly after that building was placed there, I had an electrician come to hook up the electricity. I attached water to it and had a temporary sewer line. Mrs. Lytle : I will grant you that but I will also ask you to grant us the fact that the assessors were not aware of it. They had not gone back and checked all that. You had the advantage of the delay in Southold. The assessor was Grievance Day Town of Southold -74- July 20, 1976 there for the permit you had to move the building. Mr. Nezin: No, ma 'am. Mrs. Lytle : I am looking at the records right here. Mr. Nezin: The records are not altogether correct, ma 'am. Mrs. Lytle : An assessor from the Town of Southold was there. We have the exact day and everything else. Mr. Nezin: In fact, I came down here to speak to the assessor who happened to be Mr. Fox at the time and another assessor in the Town of Southold, to speak about the property. Mrs. Lytle : To speak about property or to speak about this? • Mr. Nezin: To speak about this particular thing in 1973. Mrs. Lytle : Why in 1973? Mr. Nezin: Because I was going to court on the matter with the Village of Greenport. Mrs. Lytle : That has nothing to do with Southold Town. Mr. Nezin: Yes, that ' s correct. Mr. Heuser: Does that have anything to do with the increase in this valuation in '72 that you were going to court in '73? Mr. Nezin: That ' s correct, sir. Mr. Heuser: Is it connected with this? Mr. Nezin: Yes. Mrs. Lytle : With this or Greenport? Mr. Nezin: I was going to court on assessed valuation, with the Village of Greenport. Mrs. Lytle : In '72 you were raised $500. That included the moving of the building there and the deck apparently. They had not caught up with the electricity until '75. Mr. Nezin: Ma 'am I have to disagree with you. I do not believe it had anything to do with the deck. Mrs. Lytle : We have the permit number and the value of the deck was $200 if I can understand all this correctly. Mr. Nezin: I understand it perfectly. Mrs. Lytle : It ' s very clear here. Grievance Day Town of Southold -75- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: Incidentally, the price of $200 you mention paying Harry Mitchell for that house did not include moving it, the licenses, the permits and everything else, so the price was more than that, wasn't it? Mr. Nezin: Substantially, of course. I would say it was $2,000 more than that. Mrs. Lytle : Have any of you gentlemen anything to ask? Would you like to look at the card? Mr. Nezin: May I ask a question now? Am I to understand as I sit here that the 125% increase in my tax on that particular building is because it is bestowed with electricity, water and has a sewer line. Mrs. Lytle : May I see the form that he filled out? Do you have this property insured? Mr. Nezin: Do I have it insured? Yes. Mrs. Lytle : At what amount? Mr. Nezin: I don't believe I have the amount in front of me. I don't really know. Mrs. Lytle: This is one of the things you did not fill out. Mr. Nezin: That could be correct. I don't know. What would that have to do with it, ma 'am? Mr. Heuser: It ' s relevant. Mrs. Lytle : In reference to what you value the place at. • Mr. Nezin: Oh, what I value it at. Are we speaking value because if we are, I would like to ask another question. Are you speaking of value? Mrs. Lytle: Yes, but I am speaking of value as to what is yours, in respect to insurance. Mr. Nezin: I would be glad to. I will try to answer if the board will answer for me. You told me you denied the first paragraph and I said that "whereas the property of the complainant was assessed at a fractional value, not a full value as prescribed by law. " Mrs. Lytle : Listen, before we go any further. Mr. Nezin: Yes, ma 'am. Mrs. Lytle : Every piece of property in the Town of Southold is valued on the basis of 25%. It is not 100%. Mr. Nezin: That ' s not according to law. Grievance Day Town of Southold -76- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: Yes sir, everybody. That is permitted under the law of the Town of Southold. We don't come in here and make the decisions. We go for training. I can show you the books, if you want. Mr. Nezin: I appreciate that, ma 'am, but they have ,just been into Supreme Court with this and the judge so deemed that it must be 100% value. Mrs. Lytle : For where? Mr. Nezin: For the State of New York under the Constitution Article XII. Mrs. Lytle : No, it has not been. There has only been one place in the State of New York that had a special ruling and, to the best of our knowledge, it is not for New York State. I do not want to get involved with legalities. We • know what our ruling is that we work with. Mr. Nezin: O.K. I just thought I would mention it. Mrs. Lytle: Do you have a question? Mr. Heuser: Only at the approximate value that Mr. Nezin puts on this property, the insured value. Mrs. Lytle : He hasn't given it to us. Mr. Nezin: It ' s very difficult, sir, if everybody in. . . . Mrs. Lytle: Do you have insurance on the property? Mr. Nezin: Yes, I do. • Mrs. Lytle: How much is the insurance? Mr. Nezin: I don't know. I really don't know. Mrs. Lytle : You know all these other details but you don't know how much your insurance is? Mr. Nezin: I don't have any details. I have several properties. Mrs. Lytle : When did you pick up this form? Mr. Nezin: It was mailed to me about two weeks ago. Mrs. Lytle : And you didn't read it? Mr. Nezin: Sure, I read it. Mrs. Lytle : Then, why didn't you fill it in if you read it? Grievance Day Town of Southold -77- July 20, 1976 Mr. Nezin: I have an insurance broker that handles all my insurance and. . . . Mrs. Lytle : A phone call would have gotten you the information, I would assume. Mr. Nezin: Possibly, it would have. Mrs. Lytle: We do not have all the information to come to a decision. Mr. Nezin: I think I will respond to you, if I may. I believe that the board is sitting illegally although you may deny it . Mrs. Lytle: Let ' s not get into any argument . We know what we have been instructed what to do. You are here to tell us about your problem, not to tell us about us, I • am sorry. Mr. Nezin: I know, but. . . Mrs. Lytle: If you have a complaint about us, you go to the county and to the state as to us sitting legally. Mr. Nezin: I can only complain here. Mrs. Lytle: No. Mr. Nezin: I have to start here. Mrs. Lytle : No, we have no authority over that. We have been assigned this job, and we are. . . . Mr. Nezin: I want to start my complaint here. It is on the tape and I want it so recorded. Mrs. Lytle : No. Mr. Robb: Don't you have the vaguest idea of what your insurance is? No recollection? Mr. Nezin: I believe it is irrelevant and immaterial. It does not prove the purpose of my complaint. It may serve your purpose but not mine. Mr. Robb: You are a brilliant individual and you expect answers from us and decisions from us but you can't remember a thing like that. Mrs. Lytle: You don't have to fill out this form but you must give on some form the similar information for, us to work on and this is under the county which works under the state. Grievance Day Town of Southold -78- July 20, 1976 Mr. Nezin: You refuse to give me this information which I am entitled to under the law? Mrs. Lytle: I am sorry but that is not anything within our province. Mr. Nezin: Under the Real Property Tax Law, you are supposed to. . . . . Mrs. Lytle: You are not familiar with the Real Property Tax Law then. Mr. Nezin: I have the book in my car. Shall I get it? Mrs. Lytle : No, we have them all here, thank you. Mr. Nezin: I am not arguing the point, ma 'am. I amjust trying to make a case here and I cannot make a case if. . . • Mrs. Lytle : This is not a court of law and I am not getting involved. . . . . . Mr. Nezin: I am not making a case in a court of law. Let ' s talk about the assessment. It ' s a 125% increase on electricity, water and sewer. Now, that ' s ludicrous. Mr. Heuser: That' s your interpretation. You also have to bear in mind that that assessment increase there was the first one on that combined property in three or four years. Mr. Nezin: What was the stimulus for it? Mr. Heuser: Don't pin it all down to electricity, water and sewage, and so forth. It ' s a combination of increased . value of the property. The market value. . . Mr. Nezin: It hasn't been sold. Mr. Heuser: Well, you don't have to sell something to increase its value. Mr. Nezin: Then, every piece of property and I hope this is being recorded, you have readjusted so they all come up to market value? Mr. Heuser: On areas, not every piece. The assessors have. They have reassessed all older properties over the past how long a period of time, madame chairman? Mr. Nezin: They have done 100% assessment in the Town of Southold? Mr. Heuser: I didn't say that. I said they are trying to reassess everybody' s property. Let ' s not take it as personal. Grievance Day Town of Southold -79- July 20, 1976 Mr. Nezin: I'm not taking it as personal. Mr. Heuser: They are trying to get everybody ' s older property. . . . Mr. Nezin: I have been to court with the Village of Greenport. I believe and I will prove it that there ' s collusion. . . . . Mrs. Lytle: What happens in Greenport has nothing to do. . . . . Mr. Nezin: Yes, it does because the same tax assessor is doing the job.. That ' s why I must bring this to your attention. Mrs. Lytle : It doesn't make any difference. Mr. Nezin: I am trying to make this as brief as possible. • I know you have a difficult job. Mr. Heuser: We have a lot of people. Mr. Nezin: I understand that. I believe there is collusion that Mr. Fox didn't know beans from bananas. I allege that Mr. Fox was in collusion with someone in the Village of Greenport to put. . . . Mrs. Lytle : You realize you are making statements that have no bearing. . . Mr. Nezin: They do because he is the assessor for both areas. That someone there told him that Nezin put in a water line or sewer line or electricity and he has beaten us in court on this case and that case and we are going to get • back at him in some way. Reassess his property. We are telling you that he didn't find it on his own volition. In three years, he walked by and found out I put a sewer under- ground. I know assessors work. I've been around a little bit. And he didn't contact the utility company on his own volition. If he did, I will apologize. I say there is collusion, in fact, the collusion is so flagrant if I may use that word, that here is submitted in evidence. Mrs. Lytle : I think I am going to take the privilege of being chairlady. I may be wrong but I am going to close the hearing. That has nothing to do with us. Mr. Nezin: Yes, that does. That ' s in your office. There is the amount put down before it is even assessed. Ms. Schwicker: What do you figure is the full market value of the property? Mrs. Lytle : You haven't completed this form. Mr. Brown: I think the board needs something more, we need certain facts. We cannot come up with a good decision based on what we need. Grievance Day Town of Southold -80- July 20, 1976 Ms. Schwicker: Mr. Nezin, may I ask you something? Mr. Nezin: Sure. Ms. Schwicker: If you were to sell the property, what would you place as its market value? Can you give us an idea? Mr. Nezin: Yes, I can give you four or five ideas. Ms. Schwicker: I really want just one. Mr. Nezin: It ' s impossible. Mrs. Lytle : You mean to tell me if a real estate man came to you, you wouldn't know what price to put on your house. Mr. Heuser: Let ' s put down, man has no idea as to value . of property. Mr. Nezin: I have a value in mind here. Mr. Robb : He doesn't wish to divulge it . Mr. Nezin: No, I' ll give it to you. The value of the property is $9,000. Ms. Schwicker: That ' s what you paid for it. What would you sell it for? Mr. Nezin: With what I have put into it, I would say it ' s worth $14,000. Ms. Schwicker: That ' s what you would be willing to sell it • for? Mr. Nezin: I didn't say that. You asked me what the value is and what ' s the value. Ms. Schwicker: I asked you for the market value. Mr. Nezin: I don't know the market value because I don't have it on the market. I wouldn't know it. You asked me for value and I said $14,000. If you want to ask me insurance, I would say the insurance was comparable to $14,000. Mrs. Lytle : Thank you for coming in. You will hear from us in two weeks time. Mr. Nezin: I don't feel that the chairlady has the prerogative when I didn't finish, although she doesn't like to listen to me, I don't feel the chairlady has the right to close this hearing and I would like it so to be noted in the record. I gust want to make sure that it says that I did not have all I had to say. Grievance Day Town of Southold -81- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: We did give you a considerable amount of time, sir. #16. Alice MacLean Thompson, Southold, New York. Property located at Southold. N - Town of Southold E - Town of Southold S - Main Road W - Hortons Lane Land - $1500 Land and Buildings - $7300 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Ms. Thompson. Mrs. Lytle withdrew from giving any consideration to this case because of personal friendship with the applicant. • Mr. Heuser: What' s your property insured for, please? Ms. Thompson: I don't know. Mr. Heuser: At times, you will find out that it has a bearing on our decision, your opinion of the value and the assessors opinion of the value. Ms. Thompson: According to Artie Gagen, I'm way under- insured. Mr. Heuser: One of the important things we would like to point out right away is the fact that you have not been reappraised in twelve years. Possible, during that period of time the majority of the town property owners have been reappraised and their appraisal value raised. Therefore, they have left your land value the same and increased your home $1800. Ms. Thompson: That, I don't understand why my home is increased. Mr. Heuser: Because they assume the property values in twelve years have gone up substantially in this area. Why wouldn't your home go up? Ms. Thompson: Because, for one thing, there is a great big hole right next to it. They built right up to my windows. I am assuming that this mountain behind me will disappear but it was a pleasant open house to live in and now I might as well be in a city apartment. It' s going to be something very different. Mr. Heuser: You should have lived in the city years ago. Ms. Thompson: I did. I grew up in Brooklyn. That' s why I like the country. The children are devoted to it, too. Grievance Day Town of Southold -82- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: Do you know what you paid for it? Ms. Thompson: $4,400 in 1941. I don't know how many times that we put into it. It had no heat, it had a pot stove. The summer kitchen is out of the back. Mr. Heuser: You have improved it over the years, though? Ms. Thompson: There were no windows in the back bedroom at all. Ms. Schwicker: In other words, it was a summer home when you purchased it? Ms. Thompson: No, it was the retirement home of an old minister. It dates back to the 16001s. Mrs. Whitaker lived there alone for years. She lived in only one end of the house. • Ms. Heuser: When did you put the heat and everything else and modernize the house? Ms. Thompson: We have never done it. Mr. Heuser: It says oil hot water heat. Ms. Thompson: It had oil hot water heat in that west end We have electric heat in the east end. The upstairs one bedroom has a baseboard heater. The upstairs in this end is the part I use in the summer for guests. It is only one heated room in the upstairs in this end. The other end has two little little apartments. Ms. Schwicker: The electric heater, is that baseboard heat? • Ms. Thompson: No, there' s one electric heater that boosts the heat in the dining room. I put it under the table Japanese-style. Mr. Robb: It' s a portable heater. Ms. Thompson: It' s partly heated but inadequately. The furnace now has two valves. It' s sort of a hodge-podge. Mr. Heuser: Apparently, you are more concerned about the surrounding property than you are about your valuation at this point. Ms. Thompson: Well, I like living there and the children are devoted to it. I think it' s worth a lot less. Mr. Heuser: I have to emphasize it is your first raise in assessed valuation in twelve years. Ms. Thompson: Yes, but is it not worth less than it was Grievance Day Town of Southold -83- July 20, 1976 twelve years ago? Would anybody like to live with there. . . . You talk about sale. It' s not for sale. If it were for sale would anybody like to live. . .no matter how pleasant the people and agreeable the building with that building coming up so close to me, in the country. It had been lovely. Mr. Heuser: How close to your property line is the building? How close to Mrs. Thompson' s property line? To your home? Roughly, between your house and. . . . Ms. Thompson: The edge of my yard, one grandbaby leans over and looks down the hole. Mr. Heuser: The Town Hall to your home is how much space, would you say? Ms. Thompson: Ten feet? I'm a poor guesser. There' s not • room for a truck to go on that side. They just walked on that side. There' s not room for a truck, but I don't know. I have very little property of my own and I've never been able to buy ten feet from the town. We didn't have enough to put a driveway on that side of the house. Mr. Heuser: Is there anything further you would like to say? Ms. Thompson: I am concerned about it as a place to live and I would like to wait and see if it is going to be something awfully nice, but inbetween. . . . .Maybe, it's a very low building or something. Mr. Heuser: Is there anything further you would like to say to us before we adjourn your particular case? . Ms. Thompson: I just think it' s no fair to raise my taxes. Mr. Heuser: Everybody feels that way. Ms. Thompson: I think mine is a special case. You're not doing that to other people' s houses and I know it' s not spite. Mr. Heuser: They valued your property at, roughly. . . . Ms. Thompson: They're not doing that to no one else' s property that I know of. Mr. Heuser: They valued your house, roughly, at $23,000. Would you sell it for $23,000? Ms. Thompson: I don't know. It' s not for sale. Mr. Heuser: I have to ask you that question again. Would you sell it for $23,000. Ms. Thompson: I would say no. Grievance Day Town of Southold -84- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: That' s all they're charging you is $23,000, assessed valuation. Ms. Thompson: I don't think that' s the point. Mr. Heuser: I know what you are trying to tell me but I look at the assessed valuation, that' s all. Ms. Thompson: I wish I had Renny here. I am not presenting it the way I think I should. Mr. Heuser: You're getting across but we have to ask those questions. Ms. Thompson: It was lovely before. Mr. Heuser: It will be lovely again. . Mr. Heuser: I will speak to the chairlady and she will write you or advise you in the next two weeks and advise you of what the decision of the board is. We don't make decisions today. Mrs. Lytle: We make decisions at a later date. #17. William Luhrs, Bay Avenue, Mattituck. Property located at Mattituck. N - Lester Weber E - Map of Riley, Creek S - Park District W - Bay Avenue Land $1600 Land and Buildings - $6100 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. and Mrs. Luhrs. Mrs. Lytle: Just to clarify this, your total assessed valuation is $6,100 and you want that reduced by $2300 or to $2300. Which is it? You want it reduced to $2300? Mr. Luhrs: That has been the rate up until last year and last year they raised me from $2300 to $6,100. Mrs. Lytle: This says insert the amount of over-valuation and you have $2300. You want to bring it back to what your tax rate was before? Mrs. Luhrs: We were raised 300% and I don't think it' s fair. Mrs. Lytle: I know what happened. I just want to know what figure you want it reduced to. Grievance Day Town of Southold -85- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: He wants a reduction of $3800. Mrs. Lytle: I'll mark it, if you'll initial it. Mr. Heuser: Are you next to the tennis court on Bay Avenue? Mr. Luhrs: Right. Mr. Heuser: On the east side. Mr. Luhrs: Yes. It is three-quarters of an acre. One third of it is wetlands and there has been no improvement whatsoever. I didn't put no cellar underneath. I didn't put nothing and haven't spent one cent on it since 1942. Mr. Heuser: Why are there two pictures here? Do you have two houses on there? • Mr. Luhrs: There is two houses, yes. Two bungalows. One used to be a small building and I made it into a garage. Mrs. Lytle : You say the full value of the property on taxable status date of this year is $882.48. That ' s your tax, sir. That' s not the full value. Mr. Luhrs: That' s what I paid. Mrs. Lytle: The property is insured for $5,000? Mr. Luhrs: Yes. Mr. Heuser: Both buildings? Mr. Luhrs: Yes. . Mrs. Lytle: They were constructed in 1899? Mr. Luhrs: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: Both buildings? Mr. Luhrs: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: And you paid $5,500 for the property in 1942. Mr. Luhrs: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: Have you any idea how long it has been since you have been reassessed? Mr. Luhrs: I have the papers right here. It used to be $100 tax in 1969. . . . . Mrs. Lytle: I 'm not talking about the tax, but the assessed valuation. Grievance Day Town of Southold -86- July 20, 1976 Mr. Luhrs: Last Year. Mrs. Lytle: In 174 it was raised, but prior to 174, it was many years before it was reassessed. Mr. Heuser: In 1960 was the last time your rates went up. Mr. Luhrs: They raised it 169 and 170 and they raised it last year to $6100. Mr. Heuser: That' s the rateable but the fact remains as the chairlady said here, do you know the last time you were reassessed prior to 1974? Mrs. Lytle: Your assessment has been the same for how many years? • Mr. Luhrs: I live in Forest Hills and I have had the same assessment with five or six dollar a year increase but not a $600 increase. Mrs. Lytle: I'm talking about this piece of property now, in Mattituck. We're not talking about rates or anything else. We are talking about the assessed valuation. That was raised in 1974. How many years do you think it was at that $2,300 assessed valuation? Mr. Luhrs: I really couldn't say exactly. Mrs. Lytle: Fourteen years? At least. Mr. Luhrs: I have been there since 1942, that' s thirty-four years. • Mrs. Lytle: You've been most fortunate, then. Mr. Luhrs: A $600 increase on a retired businessman from $305 to $882. I would say that' s a darn misfortune. Mrs. Lytle: The point is all those years that you didn't get raised that you didn't have to pay a higher tax. Mr. Luhrs: How can you raise the valuation on the property. It' s the same property, the same buildings, the same every- thing. Mrs. Lytle: If you were to sell that property today, how much would you want for it. Mr. Luhrs: I retired out here. I want to die out here. I want to live there until. . . . . Mr. Heuser: What do you think the market value is, sir. Mr. Luhrs: It' s about what the valuation is - $2300 or $5500. I said that would be a fair valuation. Grievance Day Town of Southold -87- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: When you've got waterfront property, even though part of it you can't use and two bungalows and I would say that area alongside the Park District is worth more than $5,000. I'm retired, too, don't misunderstand. Mr. Luhrs: There is $305 the previous year and now they raise me up close to $900 which is 300% increase. This is what I am against. Next year, it will be another thing and the next thing it will be up to $2,000. Mr. Heuser: Did you get a notice of increase when they reappraised your property in 1974? Mr. Luhrs: No. Mr. Heuser: You never got a notice? Mrs. Lytle: But you were aware of it when you got those • bills. Mr. Luhrs: That' s thebill I got. I was so angry that I paid six months before and the last six months I had to pay a penalty of $45.23. The last half. They marked this June 30th and Mr. Mellas sent me a letter. That' s the wrong date, it was July 30th. They put a $45 penalty on a $400 payment. Mrs. Lytle: Way back in 1966, it was valued at $2300. Mr. Heuser: I don't think that has been reassessed over there since 1960. It' s an unfortunate thing and I am also retired but property has gone up even the houses that you bought and I bought and everyone else bought. • Mr. Luhrs: I would believe it went up from $2300, maybe a hundred per cent to $4600 but not $6100. Mr. Heuser: Alright, then that' s what you should have said here - what you said. You said you wanted to go back to $2300. You don't mean that - you want to go back to $4600. Mr. Luhrs: $4600 is a fair price. Mrs. Lytle: You want to change that to $4600 from $2300? Mr. Luhrs: I tell you I am really. . . . . . Mr. Heuser: I know this property and were both of those buildings up all the time? Mr. Luhrs: They were always there. Mr. Heuser: Was one a red building? Mr. Luhrs: No. Grievance Day Town of Southold -88- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: Is it the one alongside it? Mr. Luhrs: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: Any more questions? Thank you for coming in. You will hear from us in about two weeks time. #18. Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Cain, Cutchogue, New York. Property located at Cutchogue. N - Gerhardt E - Holden Avenue S - Irving - Shepard W - West Creek Avenue Land - $1700 Land and Buildings - $5900 • Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. and Mrs. Cain. Mr. Heuser: I notice you haven't filled in the insured value of your property. Mrs. Cain: I think it is somewhere around $35,000, approximately. Mr. Heuser: And the purchase price of your property? Mrs. Cain: It' s there. Mr. Cain: That' s what we paid for it. Mr. Heuser: How long ago, folks? • Mrs. Cain: It would be about nine years. Mr. Heuser: $27,500 in 1965, 166. Mr. Cain: We took it over in 1967. The contract was made in 166. Nobody knows what the value is. You can ask a million dollars. Mrs. Cain: You can say anything. It doesn't mean a thing. It' s what you can get. Mrs. Lytle: $27,500 was paid in 1967. The assessed valuation is $6900 which would be - $5900 which would be $23,600 and it is insured for $35,000. They paid $27,500 in '67. Mr. Heuser: Let' s see what the basis of their complaint is. Mr. Cain: The tax were $27.95 for one lot. Now, you join the lots together and the home lot was $4300. Grievance Day Town of Southold -89- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: When did you join the lots? Mr. Cain: I didn't join it. You people have. That' s why we're here for. We have the map and everything else. Mrs. Cain: The reason I am here is, in the first place, when I cane here to check over my records, I found that you have joined both of my lots together on one assessment roll, when I have, according to my deed and my survey shows, that I have two separate lots. Mrs. Lytle: Do you get a bill for your other separate lot? Mrs. Cain: Oh, yes, I did. Mrs. Lytle: Could I see one of them, please. 0 Mr. Cain: Right here. Mrs. Lytle: Have you a bill showing when they were joined together, by any chance? Mrs. Cain: No. I have never received any notice and I had not become aware of it. Mrs. Lytle: There is no building on this other lot. Mrs. Cain: No. Mr. Heuser: $4300 and $300 is $4600. Way back in 1967 they were joined. Mr. Cain: You have the statement right in front of you. • Mrs. Lytle: Did you own this one lot before you bought from Mrs. Appelquist? Mr. Cain: No. Mrs. Lytle: When did you acquire them? Mrs. Cain: I bought them together. Mrs. Lytle: You bought both of them from Mrs. Appelquist. Mrs. Cain: At the same time. Mrs. Lytle: Evidently, when it was sold ---- 1967 sold for $18,500. Mrs. Cain: I bought them as two separate lots. Mr. Heuser: Here' s your 1966 and 67, two tax bills. Here' s the following bill and it' s all in one bill. What difference would it make? Grievance Day Town of Southold -90- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Cain: It makes alot of difference. In the first place, my tax deed and my survey are not along with your records. In the second place, my next door, Mr. James, she has taken her lot and these two homes are the same age. They were built together and Mrs. James told me and Mrs. Appelquist told when they were building these two homes together neither one knew who was going to take which house. They bought two together and they did this together. Now, Mrs. James has taken this lot and sold it to her daughter or some Shepard. Now, they own this lot and this lot is in Irving' s name now. Now, I own a lot here and you joined me and made it one. My concern is she had a lot which is less than a half acre. In order to put a building on there, you are going to have to give her a variance. If you can do the same for me, why not the same there. Not have this jumbled up and maybe somebody come along and put a chicken coop on there and spoil the value of • everybody else and the property around. She is very old. These people are -not around here. The children are a long distance. They can dispose of this property shortly and this property is going to be all cut in pieces. Now, I can't see that you people could allow her to leave her lot for a variance. Why can't mine get a variance for the same reason? Mrs. Lytle: Something has occurred to me. Are you the mother of Mr. Walter Cain? Mrs. Cain: No, I am not. Mr. Cain: I am an uncle. Mrs. Lytle: I think I will withdraw from this case so there will be no repercussions in any shape, manner or form, due mainly to the school situation. Mr. Heuser: If the only discussion is about a variance, it doesn't come under this board. Mrs. Lytle: I didn't want you or any member of your family to feel I was prejudiced in this case. That' s the main point. This doesn't affect the decision at all. It just makes it that you can't claim that I was prejudiced. The other four people will serve. Mr. Heuser: I would like to say at this point that these two lots were joined way back in 167. It had to be done through deeds. The town doesn't automatically do it. Mr. Fox: As far as the pieces of property, all you need to do is bring in to us the deed when you purchased the land. It seems to me there is a great possibility that it was all wrapped into one. It is nothing hard to change. Bring it in to the Board of Assessors. You have no grievance. Bring your deed where you bought it from Mrs. Appelquist. Grievance Day Town of Southold -91- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Cain: With this in mind, finding my property being one and knowing the situation of these two properties being identically alike, it bothered me for the fact that hers is halved and mine wasn't. Now, my other lot is being assessed as a house lot where ordinarily it would stand there as just a piece of land. Right? Assessed separately from my house. Also, that is one reason I am here and the second reason, the fact is in 1972 and '73 my assessment went up. That' s two years ago but it had something to do with being in another school district, I figured. Mr. Heuser: In 1972 it went up to $5800. Mrs. Cain: Now, in 1975 and 76, I have been brought up again. Mr. Heuser: What did you building in 1975? • Mrs. Cain: I built nothing. Mr. Heuser: You got a building permit. Mrs. Cain: A temporary Sears Roebuck metal building or shed. It' s only a temporary thing. It is not a permanent building. It is something that can come down any day at any time. Mr. Heuser: It' s part of your increased assessment. Mrs. Cain: You increase assessments on temporary buildings? Mr. Kelsey: We take all the utility buildings when we spot them and either put a $25 or $50 assessment on them. • Mrs. Cain: $25, how come I have $100? Mr. Brown: The outbuilding was $50. Mr. Kelsey: It might come in the category of the $50 breaking point so it goes up to $100. Mrs Cain: According to my survey, according to this and your tax rolls as I saw them the other day, it bothered me to think that some time in the future, who knows, she has sold her lot. If she can get a variance. I might have to sell my property to keep my home. Mr. Heuser: Let me emphasize one thing. You can appear before Ed Fox and his staff and have your property broken if your deed reads that way. If your deed doesn't read that way, they can't do a darn thing about it. Follow me? Mrs. Cain: I bought it as two separate lots. Mr. Heuser: You never know how they make those darn things out sometimes. It could be two separate lots and only one deed. Grievance Day Town of Southold -92- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Cain: I paid two separate taxes at the time I purchased it. Mr. Heuser: Would that be at the time of closing in 1967? Mr. Cain: Yes. Mr. Heuser: When they closed, they might have consolidated into one sale. Mr. Cain: We would rather have it the other way. Mr. Heuser: Maybe, they will do it. Check your deed out. O.K.? Mrs. Cain: This is all I am here for because I realized when I got back home and talked it over. They have it one way and we've got it another way. Then again our taxes are going up and up. I didn't pay any attention to it. Mrs. Lytle: You will hear from us in about two weeks time. You will really have to go to the Board of Assessors. There is nothing we can do. #19. Vera Mayer, 727 Ladd Road, Bronx, New York. Property located at Fishers Island. Property located at Thunderhill, Clay Point, Fishers Island, New York. Land - $39300 Land and Buildings - $42,000 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Dr. Klaus Mayer. Mrs. Lytle: I will read this quickly so you will know • what this is about. It is on Vera Mayer letterhead. "I have purchased the property "Thunderhill" , Clay Point, Fishers Island, Item #73,741, Tax Map #1000:002-01-009 from Mr. Willis H. DuPont for $125,000.00. This purchase price also includes an additional 3.28 acres of unimproved land, Item #73681, Tax Map #1000:002-01-008 assessed at $49800.00. I accept the assessment on the land parcels as fair and acceptable. "However, I sincerely believe the assessment on the building on Item #73,741, Tax Map #1000:002-01-009 is too high for the market value it currently represents. Also, compared to other properties, description of which are attached, this building seems to be assessed at a relatively higher level in spite of lower market value. This house is NOT as large as some others and its price is considerably lower. "I respectfully request that the assessment be reviewed in light of the proven market value and in relation to other property in the community. A letter from Previews, Inc. is Grievance Day -93- July 20, 1976 submitted to help in your re-appraisal. The building' s current assessment (1975-76) of $38,700.00 indicates a market value based on an equalization rate of 12.46% of $310,593.90 for the building alone. " Mrs. Lytle: Let me interject right here, we do not use the equalization rate for assessing within the county, within the town. We use 25% of what we consider the market value. "I sincerely believe this is too high because after many years on the market with national and local promotion, I paid a much lower amount which included land assessed at $3,300 plus $4,800. I understand that one sale does not establish market value but if taken in the context of the sales record and the assessment of similar property in the community, a reconsideration seems in order. "Your attention to this matter is appreciated. " • Mr. Heuser: It might be advisable at this time to tell you and your wife that this property was devalued for $6,200 in 1974. It was reduced from $6,200, four times that would be $24,800. It was marked down in 1974. Mr. Mayer: It is now assessed at $38,700 for this house and the lot for $4800. I still wonder that considering I paid $125,000 and I really think that is the market value because you have a letter from Previews. I assume that they are telling the truth. The house has been on the market for twelve years at that price, that there have been two to three hundred inquiries, that there have been twenty to thirty visits, that they have had two bids on it and mine was the highest, $125,000. I really think the market value ought to be established at something near that amount. It was $125,000 and you assessed us at 25%. Mr. Heuser: It' s assessed right now, the house, at $96,500. Mr. Mayer: The house, itself. Mrs. Lytle: Let me get one thing straight. He says he doesn't object to the land, but is this an extra piece of land he bought Z? Mr. Mayer: It' s an extra piece of land. Mrs. Lytle: What about the land that the house is on? Mr. Mayer: That' s assessed at $3300. That ' s fine. Mr. Heuser: The assessors have appraised that house at $96,500 and your rate value for the taxes is $38,700. Mr. Mayer: That' s 40% then. 25% of $96,000 I would be perfectly happy with. Grievance Day Town of Southold -94- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: You paid how much for the house? Mr. Mayer: $125,000 for the house and the two lots. Mr. Heuser: My apologies, it' s $154,800. Mr. Mayer: Just for the house, without the lots. I think it is a little high considering I paid $125,000 for everything and DuPont is not a friend of mine or cousin of mine. It' s awfully high the way it is. I looked at some other houses that were larger, on the waterfront, and so on and sold for $175,000 that were assessed at considerably less. The letter from Previews, I would like to bring to your attention, also. I looked at the other houses and they were more expensive and bigger. Mrs. Lytle: You are insuring it for $90,000? • Mr. Mayer: Yes. Just the house. It is fire insurance. Mrs. Lytle: He is paying $125,000. How do you figure your. . Mr. Fox: As I told the doctor in a previous conversation, he is getting a very good bargain in the property and he can't also expect to get a very good bargain in the taxes. He is getting it below its actual value. This one sale does not constitute value and I also told him if he paid double what he paid or triple, 'we would not immediately run over and increase his taxes no more than we expect to go over and decrease his taxes just because of a sale. We would have to have several more sales to judge by. If the trend is all the same, yes. We might even take by review and reconsider. The sale in itself is not what we are going t to immediately reduce it to. We have to consider other aspects. Mrs. Lytle: It was reduced last year. From 174 to '75. Mr. Fox: We have been aware of the fact that large properties do not attract because of its huge size alot of buyers right off the bat. Mr. Mayer: I'm sure I got a good value on this but part of it is because the taxes are so very high. I really wonder without the land, that the building itself is worth as much as $150,000. Mrs. Lytle: May I bring your attention to the fact that you must have an exceedingly good buy because prior to this, at least to 165, it was assessed on the valuation of $759000. It has been gradually coming down. Mr. Mayer: Do read the letter from Previews, we have to assume it is correct. They have no interest in giving me the wrong story. It was 12-1/2 years on the market and two Grievance Day Town of Southold -95- July 20, 1976 bids on this, one of $90,000 and one of $78,000. The house simply could not be sold. They advertised it throughout the world. They had two to three hundred inquiries. It' s in the letter that I really think you should pay close attention to because no one has bid as much as $125,000 in all this time. It was not a quick sale and I snapped this up while no one was looking. It was over a long period of time so I think $150,000. The house is not worth $200,000. I am sure I would be willing to sell it for that amount any time. Mrs. Lytle: It becomes a white elephant after awhile. Mr. Mayer: Oh, of course, there are maids' rooms. There are four bedrooms in this house. It' s not a small house but $125,000 is not a small price. • Mrs. Lytle: What are you going to do with it? Mr. Mayer: I am going to use this for weekends. My children, one is up in Providence and one is in Hadley, Massachusetts. Mrs.Lytle: It' s none of my business but you bought such a big house, I was wondering. Mr. Mayer: There are four bedrooms and four little maid rooms. These maid rooms are useless, absolutely valueless. Mrs. Lytle: I think it is something we will have( to give alot of thought to. Mr. Mayer: I understand the problem. Please do read that letter carefully because it impresses me that the fact that • maybe I got a bargain but the house is worth more in replacement value, I am sure, but. . . . Mrs. Lytle: Thank you for coming in and you will hear from us in about two weeks. #20. Arthur J. Maillet, Jr. , 16 Fourth Street, Elmont, New York. Property located in Greenport. N - J. J. Martocci E - Peconic Bay S - F. Horn W - F. Horn Land - $1500 Land and Buildings - $4800 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. Maillet. Grievance Day Town of Southold -96- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Fox, would you pull a few of these cards. Mr. Heuser: Are they comparable pieces of property? Mr. Maillet: I want to explain. I brought a map. This map shows my property. I originally bought this piece of property from Mr. Horn. That was back in 1962 and my lawyer wrote to the Building Department and they said we couldn't build on it. They said they had to get a variance. Anyway, we went to get a variance and the people knocked it down. So, he said to me, if you still want to take it, I'll give you the right-of-way going to the beach which is for parking and ingress and egress which is of no use to me except I could build a house on it. I actually had usable property which is 8,500 square feet the same as this parcel here. This man has an all-year round home. He' s got it bulkheaded. I don't have it bulkheaded. In fact, my house • isn't finished. I am still working on it. I did it all myself. This one over here, it' s been the last four or five years it has been finished. It' s an all year round home. It has heat in it, air-conditioning in it, all bulkheaded and her tax is lower than mine. Their tax is lower than mine. This portion here that is useful to me is 8,500 square feet which is about the same here. Mrs. Lytle : But, you have unobstructed water view. Mr. Maillet: I own this but it' s the right-of-way. There are about thirty different people can use it and park their cars on it. It was given to me. This beach over here is the community and to get to the beach you need this right- of-way. Mr. Fox: In some cases where they don't have the required • footage they allow them to buy the right-of-way to build over here. Actually, with this right-of-way, it is encumbered with maybe twenty or thirty people who have the right. What he needed was enough square footage to build on this. Mr. Heuser: If he sold this property, he could sell it with the easement on it. Mr. Maillet: I would have to sell it with. . . . . Mr. Heuser: There is parking in front of it. Mr. Maillet: This is all private road. This belongs to the Horn family. They own the beach but we have the right to use the beach. These people here, Lutkowicz, have a little house in here. Horn owned it all at one time and he had it cut up and put little cottages on it. It' s not in these people and these. We all have our own waterfront. The only reason it is in my deed is because I own the right- of-way to the beach. It' s for these people back in here. Grievance Day Town of Southold -97- July 20, 1976 Mr. Brown: Where is the dead end? In other words, you are down here by Frank Horn' s, right? Mr. Maillet: What do you mean - dead end? This is Island View Lane here and this is Bayshore Road. Mrs. Lytle: Do you have water view this way and water view this way, don't you? Mr. Maillet: This is the creek. This is across the street. Mrs. Lytle: You have water view from your house this way and you have water view that way. Mr. Maillet: Yes, so does everybody else. Mr. Heuser: You have to have waterview when you're up on stilts like that. • Mr. Maillet: That' s another thing. This property is very low. Mr. Fox: This what he gave, he gave all by names. Some of them must be in subdivisions down there which would take much longer. Mr. Maillet: The names that I gave you, the only two that are in described are Martocci and Reibling. The rest are in the subdivision. Mr. Fox: You didn't give us the lot number so it will take us awhile. Mr. Maillet: I went right down the line, every house, and every house has got heat in it, so every house is a regular • all year round residence. Mine is only a seasonal. Martocci' s whole assessment is only $3300 and he' s got a bulkhead across there. Mr. Heuser: He' s got a quarter of an acre. Mr. Maillet: He' s got the same that I've got for usable land without counting this (pointing to right-of-way) . This was very low land. That' s why I put it on the pilings. When I get a storm, it comes right over the top. This house is all bulkheaded on the sides and the front. This house is all bulkheaded and all the way down the street it is all bulkheaded and everyone of these houses are all year round homes. Mrs. Lytle: You don't have any type of heat in your house? Mr. Maillet: Yes, I have a kerosene heater and a fireplace. Mrs. Lytle: You have a fireplace? Grievance Day Town of Southold -98- July 20, 1976 Mr. Maillet: Yes. Mr. Heuser: How come Martocci' s house has no heat? Mr. Maillet: Sure, he has. He has air-conditioning and heat. Mr. Heuser: I see it. O.K. Mr. Maillet: I made the fireplace myself. It' s not made of concrete. Mr. Fox: May I make one statement that might be helpful to everybody involved. In some of the comparisons I would be willing to take him on his word for that because we get around to assessing in the wintertime and these seasonal homes are closed up tight and it takes us sometimes several • years before we are able to find out if they have heat in them or not. Mr. Maillet: He has a chimney on it. Mr. Fox: That doesn't mean a thing. We've been stuck. He knows more about the interior of the homes than we do. If he compares them, I would take his comparison - that he is correct. Mr. Maillet: I went down that point because I know most of those people down there. Not that I want them to pay more taxes. Mr. Fox: Rather than discuss each one of them, I will grant you that. • Mr. Maillet: If you notice, I left three of them out because those I can't compare with mine because they are half acre plots. I built that when I roughed up the house, the fire- place was put in then. You took that picture in 1962 and I had just roughed up the shell at that time. Mr. Fox: There was no fireplace the last time we were there. Mr. Maillet: Then, you haven't been there since 1963. Mr. Fox: We were there in 1965. You were in at Grievance Day then. Mr. Maillet: That' s right and that fireplace was in there then because I put it in the first, second winter, in 1963. It isn't a masonry fireplace. Mr. Fox: Well, that' s cutting another piece of ice. Those types you can put in and there' s no way of knowing because a masonry type fireplace goes all the way to the ground. Mr. Maillet: I couldn't because I'm up on piles. I made it Grievance Day Town of Southold -99- July 20, 1976 myself and . . . . . Mr. Fox: That isn't recognized as a fireplace as such. Mr. Maillet: It burns wood. It' s not a regular fireplace. Mrs. Lytle: You have given us alot of places to compare with. We meet again. We do not make decisions today. We meet at a later date. We will compare them. Mr. Maillet: I tried to give you ones and there are three there I didn't because they are half acre and they have a big home on them and their taxes are almost twice what I am paying and I can't compare with them. I left three of them out. The one thing that I wanted to bring to your attention is the use of the property that I have. The other thing is the fact that I have a summer residence while • the rest have all year round. I have been paying the taxes but I have been marking my checks 'paid in protest' . Mrs. Lytle: You haven't been in before. Mr. Maillet: In 1965 I was in. That was because the first year I put up the shell and they hit me with something that was unbelievable. Mrs. Lytle: Since 1972, you have been paying in protest. Thank you. You will hear from us in about two weeks. ##21. Patrick and Marie Carrig, Richmond Road, Southold. Property located in Southold. N - A. Bondarchuk E - McGuire • S - M. Armstrong W - Richmond Road Land - $700 Land and Buildings - $8300 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. Carrig. Mr. Fox: Mrs. Chairlady, may I approach the board on this case. Unfortunately, the Board of Assessors is not infallible. Mr. Carrig will agree to that. This building that he started to build, he didn't finish and this is what he really built. He happened to know of another building in Mattituck, very similar, practically the same. He brought this to our attention but it was after the tentative tax roll was done and we couldn't do anything about it. We told him it has to come through the Board of Review, but we would approach the board and agree it should be a dollar. Grievance Day Town of Southold -100- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: In other words, you want to reduce that $124. Mr. Fox: Is that right, Mr. Carrig? Mr. Carrig: Right. Mr. Fox: To expedite it, that is why I came before the board and the Board of Assessors agrees with me. Mrs. Lytle: The permit to do the work was in February. Mr. Carrig: Last year, 1975. Mr. Heuser: If we took this at a dollar that would give $6220. Mr. Carrig: As far as the assessment goes, it should be • $1240 instead of $1860. Mr. Fox: This is an accessory building to his. . . . Mr. Carrig: It is a big garage. Mr. Fox: It' s bigger than a garage. It is a big accessory building. Mrs. Lytle: What do you want to call it - a discrepancy ? Or what? Mr. Fox: An error in judgment. Mrs. Lytle: You have heard this discussion. We do not make decisions today. This is a suggestion. You will be notified in two weeks time. We are not permitted to give • you an answer tonight. Thank you for coming. #22. Ersilia Pauli (Woods) , 29 Rose Court, Smithtown, New York. Property located in East Marion. N - D. Papgrannakis E - F. E. Bondarchuk S - Ranick Construction Company W - Arnold - Asrestos Land - $2400 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mrs. Woods. Mrs. Woods: It is just acreage. It is undeveloped land. It is at the edge of the sand pit. Right behind me is the sand pit. Here' s a map. I am completely landlocked. I have to take a helicopter to get in to it. Your board granted me a reduction of taxes in 1968 on the same basis. I have made attempts to sell it. I have tried. Nobody wants to give me access. Grievance Day Town of Southold -101- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: How did you get landlocked? Mrs. Woods: Because I am stupid. I just bought that one piece from Mr. Ed King. He is gone now, he' s deceased. Mr. Heuser: Without any access, without any right-of-way. Mrs. Woods: My lawyer cautioned me against. At the time, if you remember, they were talking about a bridge going over to Connecticut. Well, I figured a poor little nobody would make a couple of thousand dollars if the bridge came, but the bridge never came. So here I am holding on to a piece of land that I can't build on. Nobody even wants to talk to me about selling it. Mr. Heuser: Not unless you have a right-of-way. Mrs. Woods: Believe me, I have tried. I have approached all the land owners to sell me a small strip of land to get in there so I can offer it for sale but nobody wants to talk. Mr. Heuser: They won't even give you an easement. Mr. Brown: Who owns the road that goes down into. . . . Mrs. Woods: There is no road there. It is a complete drop into a sand pit. Mr. Brown: What' s the name of the man that owns the brick house? Mrs. Woods: There' s a brick house around here some place. I can't get through here because this is a sand pit. It' s • nothing but debris back there. Mr. Heuser: This construction corporation that' s on the south side of your property, who' s that? Mrs. Woods: I don't know. Today, I went over there. There' s a house over there. This used to belong to a Krupski who was a lawyer and he had two or three homes there and we talked to the woman who owns the property and there is no access to this land here. Mr. Heuser: Again, she wouldn't give you an easement on it? Mrs. Woods: I haven't made any attempt. I have written to this fellow and these people that own large lots. I can't write to this one because he is too narrow. I don't know what the lot minimum is here in Southold. I really don't know what your minimum is. I wrote to all the large owners of property. They won't give me the right time of day. I even wrote to real estate agents trying to get them to help me out. Maybe, they would know something I don't know. I Grievance Day Town of Southold -102- July 20, 1976 am completely landlocked. I wish I could sell it, really. Mr. Heuser: What about Ranick Construction Company? Mrs. Woods: There' s no construction company there. There ' s a woman living next door there. There ' s no construction company. Mr. Heuser: On that property? Mrs. Woods: There' s a house here and here and here. There are three lots with houses on them. I don't understand what this construction company is doing here when there are individual homes on it and she told me they own the land right back to here. Even if there was a road here, how can I. . . . . .There' s a Mrs. Zimmerman who owns a house right next door. I went over there and found out. Mrs. Zimmerman owns a house here, then her sister-in-law owns a house next door • here and there is a third house. I couldn't possibly get access from here. We would have to get it from here. If they ever fill in that sand pit, perhaps, I could do some- thing with it. Maybe, the county would build a park on it and they would give me access to it but right now it is nothing but a big hole in the ground. Ms. Schwicker: It was put up to $600 in 1968. Mrs. Woods: And I requested a reduction on the basis of the fact that I couldn't get to my land. I realize I made a mistake but I can't retract it any more. I am not going to abandon the land. Mrs. Lytle: This same 'former owner Zimmerman' • Mrs. Woods: No, I was there today and Zimmerman is the one who owns the land. Mr. Fox: Ranick Construction Company owns.,it. Mrs. Woods: But, there' s a house on the property. Mr. Fox: Yes, there' s a house on the property and it was foreclosed by a Suffolk County Sheriff' s sale. Mrs. Woods: I just spoke to her sister-in-law today and she said Mrs. somebody Zimmerman owns the property. Ms.Schwicker: She did and she was foreclosed. Mr. Brown: I wouldn't be surprised if Zimmerman was part of Ranick Construction Company. Mrs. Woods: You mean Ranick Construction probably got it through a tax sale? I better call her up because she gave me her phone number to call. This is not what this woman Grievance Day Town of Southold -103- July 20, 1976 understands. Maybe, she doesn't even know it has been foreclosed. She only comes here peiodically. This house belongs to Mrs. Zimmerman but her sister-in-law lives a house away and I don't think that Mrs. Zimmerman knows her house was foreclosed. When did they have this foreclosure, may I ask. Ms. Schwicker: 1973. Mrs. Woods: I am sure they must have been advised by now that they are foreclosing on the land. r. Ms. Schwicker: According to ,the records, that property was foreclosed in 1973. Mrs. Woods: This woman claims that this woman just bought it in 1973. Mrs. Zimmerman was supposed to have bought it in 173. There' s something fouled up somewhere. I am going to call on the phone tonight when I get home. I don't think this woman even knows. She claims she bought it from Mr. Krupski. Mrs. Lytle: We have all the records here, the foreclosure, the dates and everything else. Mrs. Woods: She claims she bought the land from Mr. Krupski. Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Krupski lost it before that. Ms. Schwicker: That' s in this record, that she bought it from Krupski but then she was foreclosed on by the Sheriff of Suffolk County. Mrs. Lytle: This Mr. Krupski was involved in quite a few • things. Mrs. Woods: This woman that I talked to today is a sister- in-law of Mrs. Zimmerman and she claims that she is out there all the time. How could this woman be in the house yet. Ms. Schwicker: This woman could be renting from Ranick. Mrs. Woods: It' s beside the point. I can't get at my property no matter how you look at it. Ms. Schwicker: Maybe, you should get in touch with Ranick Construction Company and they could make an agreement with you for an easement to your property. That's who its listed under right now. Mrs. Woods: They own it outright now. There is no way for Mrs. Zimmerman to get it back. Do they allow three years to get back the land? Mrs. Lytle: Three years. Grievance Day Town of Southold -104- July 20, 1976 Ms. Schwicker: It would be up in December of this year. (she gave the address of Ranick Construction Company to Mrs. Woods. ) Mrs. Woods: Do these people know that their land is being given up for tax sale? Mr. Heuser: They don't get the tax bill so they should know it. Mr. Fox: Don't assume. This is not a tax sale. It is a mortgage foreclosure. For a mortgage foreclose, there is notification but it doesn't attract that much attention. Mrs. Woods: I think this woman should know what is going on because she lives two doors away. Mr. Fox: Well, she doesn't because we have the deeds we • get from the county and there' s no two ways about it. Mrs. Woods: I'm not arguing this point but it is just that I am here on a different situation. I would like to get access to my land if there is any possibility of getting it. I would like to sell it and get it off my back. Mr. Heuser: Mr. Fox tells me some of this property was sold long after you bought. . . . . Mrs. Woods: I wrote this Board and asked for addresses for all people adjoining my property. I wrote letters to them. They ignored me. I don't know what for. Maybe, they're very clannish, maybe they don't want me there. Mr. Heuser: I mean before this was all developed and built. • Some of this was empty land yet when you bought yours. Mrs. Woods: True, andyou know I wrote all those people and got nowhere. I was ignored 90% of the time and when I got answers, they told me they weren't selling me fifteen or twenty feet, whatever I needed. I tried. Mr. Heuser: Have you thought of buying a street lot? Mrs. Woods: Absolutely. Only last year I wrote to this lot. There ' s a for sale sign on here. I wrote and was simply ignored. Mr. Heuser: The point I want to get across is is this piece of property empty land. Mrs. Woods: Next to Arnold. There is empty land here and here but they don't want to talk to me. I think this man is in Greece. Mr. Arnold tells me this lot is empty and the man is in Greece. Where am I going to contact him? Grievance Day Town of Southold -105- July 20, 1976 Mr. Fox: Well, we contacted him with a tax bill. Mrs. Woods: But, I have tried all these years and they don't talk to me. Those people don't want to even give me fifteen feet. If they have a lot that' s 60 or 70 feet wide, they don't want to give me fifteen feet. Mr. Heuser: To protect your investment, maybe you should buy a whole lot. Mrs. Woods: I would like to buy a whole lot. Mr. Heuser: There' s a possibility they can give you the address of this man that' s in Greece. Mrs. Woods: And yet if he wants a tremendous amount of money for it, I don't want to throw good money into bad. Do you know why I contacted Mr. Krupski? Because he had • the land next to me and I asked him to sell me a piece of land and he wouldn't do it. Mrs. Lytle: He asked you to get in touch with the excavating people. Mr. Brown: Bondarchuk can't even get in only if he goes down the dirt road. Mrs. Woods: When I bought this piece of land, the gentleman that sold it to me said you have a piece of, oh, you can go in from here. I'm very gullible. I believed him. Besides, I thought in about a year or two the whole bridge would go over to Connecticut and who would have to worry. • Mrs. Lytle: It looks like you gambled and lost. Mr. Brown: How much did you pay for it? Mrs. Woods: $3,000 which I wish I had put in the bank and today I'd be ahead of the game. I don't mind carrying it if it is just going to cost me a few dollars to carry the taxes until something develops and then I'll pay my share of the tax burden like everybody else. Maybe, when they fill that sand pit in, I'll be home free. They're putting alot of garbage and tree trunks in. I would just like to hang on to it. Mrs. Lytle: We will not give an answer tonight. We never do. We will give it some thought and I don't know what else you can tell us about it. Mrs. Woods: I don't think it' s fair to pay the same amount of taxes as somebody on the piece of road that they can sell the property. If I could sell it tomorrow, even for $5,000 or $6,000, I'd sell it and, from what you people tell me, it' s Grievance Day Townof Southold -106- July 20, 1976 worth $9,000. I'll sell it right now. Who wants it? Mrs. Lytle: We will look into it and give it some thought. Mr. Fox: Any time she has the time she can come out and get the addresses because they receive tax bills. #23. Warren and Carole Waldvogel, Box 250, Mattituck. Property located in Mattituck. N - T. M. Loper E - B. Maynard S - Main Road W - Maple Avenue Land - $700 Land and Buildings - $4200 • Ms. Schwicker administered the oath toMr. Waldvogel. Mrs. Lytle: What do you mean it should be reduced $75. Mr. Waldvogel: It was increased $1200. I was concerned as to why the increase was. Mrs. Lytle: We're not discussing that. I just want to know what that figure $75 represents. Mr. Waldvogel: I want it reduced by $75. Mr. Heuser: Why are there two bills here? Mr. Waldvogel: One is for a new home. Mr. Heuser: You're not bringing that up. Mr. Waldvogel: No. Mr. Heuser: Where is Ismar Acres? Mr. Waldvogel: Bridge Lane north of the Main Road. Mr. Brown: Is this the house down by Locust Lane? Mr. Waldvogel: No, it is on the corner of Main and Maple. Mrs. Lytle: You purchased the house for $34,000 in '73. Mr. Waldvogel: That' s right. Mrs. Lytle: Have you the property insured? How much? Mr. Waldvogel: 859 of its value, I believe. Grievance Day Townof Southold -107- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: You mean 85% of the $34,000? Mr. Waldvogel: Yes. Mrs. Lytle: The mortgage is how much? Mr. Waldvogel: $15,000. Mrs. Lytle: What is your basis in asking for the reduction? Mr. Waldvogel: Well, the house is eighty years old and it hasn't had anything done to it. Mrs. Lytle: You bought it in 173 and paid $34,000 for it and it' s eighty years old. Of course, it' s probably built better than alot of houses today. • Mr. Heuser: What does this mean? Mrs. Lytle: He wants it reduced by $75. Mr. Heuser: You mean he just wants the taxes cut $75? Mr. Waldvogel: I want whatever the assessed increase was, cut it in half. I started to paint it and that was the extent of it. Mrs. Lytle: You bought this in '73. This is the first increase you have had since it was assessed before you bought it. Mr. Waldvogel: My tax has gone up since I have been in the house. • Mrs. Lytle: Do either one of you folks have any questions? We will consider it later. We do not make any decisions tonight and you will be notified in about two weeks time. #24. John L. Conway, Horton' s Lane, Southold, New York. Property located in Southold. N - W. & J. Conway E - Horton' s Lane S - W. Salmon W - G. Jennings Land - $3,300 Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. Conway. Mr. Conway: I went to the tax maps and I found six of them here that I feel will help and Adolph Westerlund is one of them that is right next door which is assessed for half of what I am and the others are in the general area. Grievance Day Town of Southold -108- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: Would you care to tell us why you want it reduced. Mr. Conway: One reason is that it is open land and hasn't changed any. We are still farming it. Mrs. Lytle: When did you buy it? Mr. Conway: April, I think, of this year. There are no plans to change it and there is no additional expense to the Town as far as a big development would be where they have to take over roads and put in curbing and everything like that. It stayed the same and on this border to the north is a LILCO right-of-way through with high tension wires which are high voltage and there is a high tower. I don't think that makes it overly desireable. . Mr. Heuser: Was this particular property sold out of the big unit here? Mr. Conway: No, that' s another family. This is a different family. Mr. Heuser: It says 'J. Conway' here. Mr. Conway: That was never part of that. This is different. This is Conway brothers, that' s Jerome and William. It was never one piece of land. I think part of the assessment may have been based on the Markel property next door. That' s zoned for business. I don't see how they can assess agricultural property or residential the same as business property. If it was based on any of the other developments in town, the price per acre is way less than it would be for them. In the • developments, they are $14,000 and $15,000 an acre and this is only worth $6,000 an acre. I don't think it' s worth any more than that today or will be in the near future. There are no plans to develop it or put roadways in there. Mrs. Lytle: May I explain one thing here. You are assessed $3,300. That represents 25% of what the assessor feels the value of the land is so four times that to make it 100%, I have $13,200. You paid $21,000 for it so on that basis the assessors are placing an assessment on it less than the value of the property. Mr. Conway: By the same token, in the Greenfield Estates over here, if you are making that point, it is $13,500 for one full acre and they are only assessed $400 more an acre than I am and that' s not a very good ratio. Mrs. Lytle: Are you talking as it stands now. Grievance Day Town of Southold -109- July 20, 1976 Mr. Conway: As it' s sold. It is $700 as a developer' s assessment but if it is sold it would be $1400 per acre, but still the ratio I feel is not fair there. Mrs. Lytle: Because one is in a development, it is a different ratio. Mr. Conway: But, after it is sold. I am paying $6,000 an acre but if I go over there and pay $13,500 an acre and they are only upping it $400 an acre. Mrs. Lytle: What about this Main Road? Does it compare with the rest of these properties? Mr. Conway: With the usage of it, I would say yes. Mrs. Lytle: I'm not talking about the usage, I am talking • about the area. Mr. Conway: I tried to get as many near the area or like pieces of property. Mr. Heuser: I wouldn't pull some of these. I would say North Road and Soundview Avenue, yes. They are more adjacent to these people. Mr. Conway: I tried to get similar pieces of property. Mr. Moisa showed the Board of Review the book with Greenfields in it. Mr. Heuser: Linda Gorwitz - 9/10 of an acre. Full value less exemption. . Mrs. Lytle: Oh, less exemption. Were you aware of that when you looked it up? Mr. Conway: What does that mean? Mr. Heuser: She has another 9/10 of an acre for $700. Mr. Conway: And the selling price of those 6s $13,500 per acre,that is where I thought the inequality came in. Mrs. Lytle: And they are selling for $13,500. Mr. Conway: Yes, I called. Mr. Heuser: Now, comes the question. If 9/10 of an acre is worth this here. Mr. Moisa: This is in the hands of a developer and this is in individual hands. When it is sold, it doubles. When the buyer starts improving the property, it will go up another $100. Grievance Day Town of Southold -110- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: It is undeveloped property. Mr. Conway: Well, this is actually less developed than that. Mrs. Lytle: No, you haven't got that for developing. Mr. Conway: No. Mrs. Lytle: Well, that' s what the other is, for developers. Mr. Heuser: What' s your name? Mr. Salmon: Salmon, I am right next door. Mr. Conway: He has the same assessment as I do. Mr. Heuser: Is that Salmon and wife? • Mr. Salmon: Yes. Mr. Heuser: A thousand dollars an acre is the assessment value on your property as a building lot. Mr. Conway: The Westerlund piece is assessed at $500 an acre which I feel is alot fairer. Mr. Heuser: Westerlund is 1.93 acre for $1,000, yes. Mr. Conway: It is roughly $500 and I think that is alot fairer where it was around $42 or $43 before. Mr. Heuser: I think it would be advisable to talk to your assessor because the irregular shape of that piece of land • determines the value. It has no value back here. Mrs. Lytle: Which one is that you are talking about? Mr. Heuser: Westerlund. See the shape of it. You can see what he' s got here. Mr. Conway: But, what any of us are interested in the property for, it wouldn't make any difference. If we were developers or we were going to be putting up a bunch of houses which, myself, and their on interest is they were all brought up in this town and we would like some room if we want to keep a horse or something like. That is basically what it is and I farm part time and I want to use some of this land for farming or all of it until such time in the future that I do build a house and then it would only be a small :portion of it. Mr. Heuser: Do we have an assessor handy? Grievance Day Town of Southold -111- July 20, 1976 Mrs. Lytle: We assume the difference here (pointing at Westerlund' s property) is because of the shape of the land. Mr. Fox' s reply was inaudible to me both at the hearing and on the tape. Mr. Heuser: These two are roughly $1,000 an acre. This is $500. Does this shape of land have anything to do. . . . . Mr. Fox: Yes, he goes back to nothing. He hasn't got the same distance in the back as the front. It is a better shaped lot, that' s why. Briefly, that' s why. Mr. Conway: Real estate-wise, you are right, but what we are going to be using it for, we should be compared to that. We all have the same thing in mind. Mrs. Lytle: What you decide to use it for does not affect, at the moment, the assessment. If you put a house on it or something like that, your assessment goes up, when a house goes on it. Mr. Conway: Yes, but there is no house on it. Mrs. Lytle: But, I mean what your intent is to use the land, your assessment is not based on. Your assessment is based on location and the size of the land and, in this case, the shape. We don't know what any one of you is going to use it for. Mr. Heuser: And another thing, being very honest, I have doubts that any one of you three men interested in the property would be too interested in a piece shaped like this. • Mr. Conway: I would. Mr. Heuser: What could you use it for? Mr. Conway: You could put a pasture in there. For what any of us would use it for, it would be ideal. A horse doesn't care if he goes back there and eats, either here or there. Mrs. Lytle: But, the land is just as valuable if he eats one place or another. Mr. Conway: Well, then, this is as valuable as that and it' s only half as much. Mr. Heuser: Clement Booth, this is one of the properties you want to compare? Mr. Conway: Yes, that is a corner piece. Grievance Day Town of Southold -112- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: Anna Rubat. Mr. Conway: That is on Soundview and that would be up in here. Mr. Heuser: It hasn't been assessed since 169 and this hasn't been assessed since 161. Mr. Heuser: Two or three acres, would that be a farmland? In your interpretation? Mr. Moisa: In some sense, it could be used as farmland. Mr. Heuser: As a farmland classification? Mr. Moisa: Not under individual owners. Mrs. Lytle: No, there are alot of people that buy land and could come under that. Mr. Moisa: That' s why we have to have a minimum acreage. Mrs. Lytle: We are handling Mr. Conway' s case first. You want it cut in half. Mr. Conway: The same as he (Westerlund) has and going by the other ones and what it is being used for. I'll tell you right now I can't afford to keep it if it stays at this rate. Mr. Heuser: You purchased that for $21,000. Mr. Conway: My father gave me half of it. Mr. Heuser: I mean this particular piece of property under your name, 3-1/2 acres, 3.34 is $21,000. Mrs. Lytle: The point is he paid $21,000 and on the basis of what it is being taxed for, the assessors are only taxing as if it was worth $13,200 so, in some ways, it could be almost be considered under. Mr. Conway: I don't think so. Mr. Heuser: You put a market value of $28,000 on it. Mr. Conway: No, $21,000. Mr. Heuser: I think that this thing is complex enough that we ought to sit down with Mr. Fox and resolve this. In other words, they are looking, probably, for a farm rate. The question is whether it qualifies. Mr. Brown: You also have that other one there, Rubat and they should be considered under that one, too. I think they do have a point. Grievance Day Town of Southold -113- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: What type of land is this Rubat? Do you remember? Mr. Conway: I think it would be wooded land being in that area which is even more desirable than that. Mrs. Lytle: They are asking about this as farmland. That rate is not farmland rate. Mr. Heuser: These three pieces of property, particularly Mr. Conway' s. Mrs. Lytle: What would be the process of claiming it? Mr. Brown: This is presently being used as farmland. Mr. Fox: This is presently being used as farmland? • Mr. Brown: No, this here. Mrs. Lytle: This is woodland. Mr. Conway: Like I said before, I just picked these out in the general area. I just feel it is overassessed. Mr. Heuser: He feels that $500 an acre is ample. Mr. Conway: For the present usage. If I did something in the future, they could ride up there in their truck and reassess it. Now, it is just a piece of land sitting there. Mrs. Lytle: Has it been farmed before? Mr. Conway: Yes, it has always been. Mrs. Lytle: He claims he bought it. Mr. Conway: I bought my uncle' s half and my father gave me his half. When I bought it, I expected to pay more tax but $600 for a piece of land sitting there seems alot of money. Mr. Heuser: Did it come out of J. M. Conway' s property at all? Mr. Conway: No, that' s completely different. It' s a relative but it has no bearing on this and it was never a part of this chunk. Mr. Fox: Well, let them have their say (the rest inaudible) Mrs. Lytle: I think it is something we will have to look into a great deal more. We don't give a decision tonight. We sit again and review all this and then come to our decision and you will hear from us in about two weeks. Grievance Day Town of Southold -114- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: In other words, from our conversation, I have reached the opinion that our decision on your case will interlock with the other two. Mr. Conway: I would say so, yes. Mrs. Lytle: But, if you two want a decision or any change, you will have to file a form tonight before you leave. Is there anything more on Mr. Conway' s? We will review it and let you know. You intend to continue using this farm. Mr. Conway: Yes. Sometime when I get old and can't do it. . . . . Mrs. Lytle: We are talking about the present time. • #25. William F. Salmon and wife, 455 Hortons Lane, Southold, New York. Property located at Southold. N - J. Conway E - Hortons Lane S - Markel and others W - G. Jennings Land - $2300 Mrs. Lytle: Have you anything to say on it? Mr. Salmon: John said most of it and I feel the same way. Ms. Schwicker administered the oath to Mr. Salmon. Mrs. Lytle: Which is your piece again? Mr. Heuser: Right alongside Mr. Conway' s. Mrs. Lytle: You might build there some day is the idea. Mr. Conway: I could, but I have no plans to. I have to get married first. Mrs. Lytle: Are you two related? Mr. Salmon: No, we are not. Mrs. Lytle: O.K. , unless you have any arguments to add to it. Mr. Salmon: As far as I know, what Mr. Conway said I feel, too Mrs. Lytle: You paid $14,000 for this. Mr. Salmon: Yes. Grievance Day Town of Southold -115- July 20, 1976 Mr. Heuser: $14,000 for 2.23 and $21,000 for 3.34. That' s equitable. Mrs. Lytle: Yes. O.K. , when we take one up, we will take the other up and I am fairly certain what applies to one will apply to the other. There is no question about that. Mr. Westerlund: We do all farm. Mrs. Lytle: You will be notified in about two weeks. #26. William F. Claudio, Inc. , Greenport. Property located at Greenport. N - Village property E - Main Street S - Greenport Harbor • W - William Claudio Land - $6,000 Land and Buildings - $24,900 (Stanley S. Corwin, Esq. who reresents Mr. Claudio had these delivered during the day. #27. F. S. Rosenberg, East Marion. Property located at East Marion. N - Long Island Sound, Viscardi E - Bennett - Stratmor Estate S - L. Hodor W - Andre Birten Land - $169300 S Land and Buildings - $20,900 (Stanley S. Corwin, Esq. who represents Mr. Claudio had this delivered during the day. ) #28. Kyrillos Charalambides and wife, Mattituck. Property located at Mattituck. SW 1/4 of Lot #79 - Captain Kidd Estates Land - $600 Land and Buildings - $5300 (Mail) #29. Florence B. Torpey, 330 Sterling Place, Greenport, New York. Property located at Greenport. N - Bridge Street E - J. Owen S - S. Coyle W - Sterling Place Grievance Day Town of Southold -116- July 20, 1976 Land - $400 Land and Buildings - $1800 (mail) #30. Vicky Stavrolakes, Box 129, East Marion, New York. Property located on Private Road, East Marion. N - Main Road E - Sailer - Clayton S - Bay W - Truman Road Land - $8,000 Land and Buildings - $179700 (mail) • #31. Spiro and Joan Beletsis, 43-29 172 Street, Flushing, N. Y. Property located in East Marion. Lot #134 - Map of Pebble Beach Farms Land - $4200 (mail) #32. Nick and Anne Theophilos, 18-12 Parsons Boulevard, Whitestone, New York. Property located at East Marion Lot #135 - Map of Pebble Beach Farms Land - $4200 (mail) #33. Nick and Georgia Demakis, 30-55 69th Street, Jackson Heights, New York. Property located at East Marion. Lot #75 - Map of Pebble Beach Farms Land - $2400 (mail) #34. Colgate Design Corp. , 90 Mill Road, Freeport, New York. Property located at Cutchogue. N - Cutchogue School E - Shell Oil S - Main Road W - V. W. Stype Land - $19300 Land and Buildings - $99900 (mail) Grievance Day Town of Southold -117- July 20, 1976 #35. Ann Gotsis, 144-31 32nd Avenue, Flushing, New York. Property located at East Marion. Lot #143 - Map of Pebble Beach Farms Land - $59200 (mail) #36. Magdalen Levas, 148-08 84th Drive, Jamaica, New York. Property located at East Marion. Lot #142 - Map of Pebble Beach Farms Land - $5,000 (mail) #37. Milton A. Levas, 148-08 84th Drive, Jamaica, New York. Property located at East Marion. Lot #141 - Map of Pebble Beach Farms Land - $49800 (mail) #38. Dorothy Avent, Box 42, New Suffolk, New York. (property also under name of Julia Stokes. ) Property located at Laurel. N - Camp Molloy E - Camp Molloy S - Main Road W - Town property Land - $1,000 Land and Buildings - $2600 (mail) #39. Pawling Views, Inc. c/o Koeppel Sommer Lesnick & Martone, PC 220 Old Country Road, Mineola, New York. Property located at Greenport. N - Front Street E - W. Bertenshaw and others S - American Legion W - Mascony Transit Ferry Service Land -$5400 Land and Buildings - $299600 (mail) Grievance Day Town of Southold -118- July 20, 1976 #40. Chemical Bank, Two Broadway, P. 0. Box 25304, N. Y. , N.Y. Property located at Southold N - Mail Road E - Wells Avenue S - Charles Grigonis W - Charles Grigonis Land - $7,900 Land and Buildings - $38,500 (mail) #41. John Dinizio and wife, Brown Street, Greenport, New York Property located at Greenport N - Brown Street E - Greenport Driving Park S - Prokop - Tully W - D. Tendler and others Land - $600 Land and Buildings - $4100 (mail) #42. Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. , 615 Old Country Road, Westbury, New York. Property located at Greenport. N - Long Island Railroad S - Creek E - Pipes Neck Road W - Gutter . Land - $3,900 (mail) #43. Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. 615 Old Country Road, Westbury, New York. Property located at Greenport. N - Long Island Railroad E - Herman Sill S - Creek W - Reiter & A. E. Homan, Jr. Land - $6,200 (mail) Grievance Day Town of Southold -119- July 20, 1976 #44. Neil S. MacDonald and wife, P. 0. Box 258, Mattituck. Property located at Mattituck. Lot #20 - Map of Village Manor Land - $600 Land and Buildings - $4900 (mail) #45. Mattituck Associates, Suburbia Federal Savings & Loan, c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. , 1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York. Property located at Mattituck N - Long Island Railroad E - Louise Wilson S - Main Road W - District Line Property located at Laurel N - Long Island Railroad E - District 9 S - Main Road W - Hobson - Wyche Total of both: Land - $42,000 Land and Buildings - $142,600 (mail) #46. 235 Mill Street, Inc. , c/o Koeppel Sommer Lesnick & Martone, P.C. , 220 Old Country Road, Mineola, New York. Property located at Greenport. N - South Street E - First Street S - Adams Street W - Seligson Land - $18,900 Land and Buildings - $52,000 (mail) Grievance Day Town of Southold -120- July 20, 1976 #47. Barbara P. Hughes, Solsville Road, Madison, New York. Property located at Orient N - Long Island Sound E - P. E. Hale S - P. E. Hale W - X. Damianos Land - $6,800 (mail) The Chairlady declared the day closed at 9:30 p.m. as there were no more people desiring to be heard. The Board will meet on July 26, 1976 at 9:00 a.m. to make their decisions. Respectfully submitted, 1 7 Muriel Bru Secretary