HomeMy WebLinkAbout1977 �f
SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK
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In the Matter of the Petition of NOTICE OF
APPLICATION
t ASSOCIATED-EAST LENDING CORP. , FOR REVIEW OF
ASSESSMENT OF
Petitioner, REAL PROPERTY
1
-against-
THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD and THE BOARD
OF ASSESSORS OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD,
Respondents.
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TO THE ABOVE NAMED RESPONDENTS:
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that upon the annexed petition
verified the day of September, 1977, the undersigned will
make an application at a Special Term, Part IV, of this Court
to be held in and for the County of Suffolk at the Courthouse,
Veterans Memorial Highway, Hauppauge, New York, on the 26th day
of October, 1977, at 9 :30 o'clock -in the forenoon of that day, or
as soon thereafter as counsel can be heard for a review under
Article 7 of the Real Property Tax Law, of the tax assessment upon
the property of this petitioner situated at Mattituck, in the Town
of Southold, New York, which property is more particularly describ a
in the annexed petition and for such other and further relief
as to the Court may seem just and proper.
Dated: September 1 , 1977. Yours, etc.
ANDREW E. ULLMANN
TO: THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD and Attorney for Petitioner
THE BOARD OF ASSESSORS OF THE Office and P. O. Address
TOITN OF SOUTHOLD - 2 Woodside 'Avenue .
Northport, New York - 11768
516 261-6066
aLnuy 0��
RECEIVED
SEP 7977 516 734-5100
SOUTHOLD. TQWF September 19, 1977
Hon. Albert M. Martocchia, Supervisor
Town Clerk's Office
Southold, New York 11971
Re: Greenport Playhouse v.
Town of Southold;
235 Mill Street, Inc. v.
Town of Southold ;
John G. Schramm v.
Town of Southold
Dear Mr. Martocchia:
Relative to the above captioned pending tax certiorari
matters, and in particular in response to your letter to me of
June 13, 1977, we should like to propose at this time a final
settlement of the above-entitled matters, as follows :
With respect to the 235 Mill Street property, we would recom-
mend a settlement to be arrived at, as follows :
73/74 - $43,000
74/75 - 36,000
75/76 - 32,000
76/77 - 32,000
77/78 - 32,000
The property in question was originally assessed at $52,000
but was recently sold as indicated in our letter to you of June 6,
1977.
As concerns the Greenport Playhouse, we would recommend a
settlement, as follows :
516 734-5100
Hon. Albert M. Martocchia, Supvr. September 19, 1977
71/72 - $20,000
72/73 - 15,000
73/74 - 15, 000
74/75 - 14,000
75/76 - 12,000
76/77 - 11, 000
77/78 - 11,000
As concerns the Schramm case, we have recommended a settle-
ment in this matter of $5800. 00.
Please promptly review all of the foregoing and advise in
writing if all of the settlements above proposed are satisfactory,
thereby directing us to proceed so as to terminate matters as
above indicated.
Thanking you for your prompt attention and reply to the
foregoing.
S,i c e ,
c ar J. Cron
RJC/j f
cc: Edward Fox
O ,Q K
JUDITH T.TERRY TELEPHONE
TOWN CLERK �„ (516) 765-1801
REGISTRAR OF VITAL STATISTICS
Southold, L. I., N. Y. 11971
August 24, 1977 .
Hon. H. Russell Haase, Director
Suffolk County Real Property
Tax Service Agency
County Center
Riverhead, New York 11901
Dear Mr. Haase:
Transmitted herewith are the proceedings of the
Southold Town Board of Assessment Review held on
July 19, 1977, which were filed with me this date.
Very truly yours,
Judith T. Terry
Town Clerk
cc: Mrs. Mabel Lytle
FROM: Assessor
r
TO: Board of Assessment Review f
RE: TRANSMITTAL OF GRIEVANCE FORMS (complaints) f
DATE: July 19, 1977
This is to certify that the tentative assessment roll for the
Town of Southold , was prepared by the Office of the Town
Assessor on July 1. 1977 .
As of the public declaration of the tentative roll for the
tax year 1977/78, the office of the Town Assessor has not, in
accordance with the State Laws, permitted or allowed any amendment
to the assessment roll which increases, decreases or amends assessments.
Also, as of the public date of the tentative roil, the Assessor's
Office has acted in a custodial way in accurately keeping all
grievance or complaint forms which are transmitted in their entirety
at this time to the Board of Assessment Review.
Total number of grievance forms attached herewith -
Sole Assessor
Chairman Board of Assessors
R.P.T.S.A. - 200 -. 4/72
BAR-1
FROM: Board of Assessment Review
TO: Town Assessor
RE: ORn R FOR CHANGE IN ASSESSMENT ROLL
DATE:
The Board of Assessment Review for the Town of ,
has duly met to hear complaints or grievances do the tentative
town assessment roll for the tax year 19 - 7/- , as prescribed by law.
The Board, having duly convened, has considered each and every
complaint or grievance on the assessments for the tax year indicated,
as filed with this Board, as prescribed by law.
• l
A majority of the Board had determined that all of the changes
indicated on the attached page (s) will be made on the assessment
roll by the Town Assessor. (BAR-2 _- Part II)
Total number of complaints submitted by assessor
Total number of complaints received on Grievance Day
Total number ofcomplaints reviewed by the Board -
Total number of recommended reductions in assessment
Total number of recommended increases in assessment
Total number of grievances without a change -
NOW, THEREFORE, the Board of Assessment Review hereby orders the
assessor or board of assessors to make all changes in assessments as
determined by the Board of Assessment Review on the assessment roll
of .the Town o , for the tax year 19 in
conformance with this order.
BAR-.2 .- Page 1 of 2
ASSESSMENT RO - YEAR 197,/� �
TOWN OF
Complaint Last Name
or Of Owner Property Assessment Assessment
Grievance No. On Roll Desc . From To
C cti-Gir
� i
Ale
r
G G
i
R.P.T. S.A. - 500 - 4/7
BAR-2 - Part II
STATE OF NEW YORK
COUNTY OF ��, / ) ss :
TOWN - -- E OF -���i o /0� )
The undersigned, being duly sworn do severally depose and
say that deponents are members of the Board of Assessment Review;
that deponents have read the foregoing and know the contents thereof;
and the matters set forth are true to the best of the deponents '
knowledge.
Sworn to before me this- day
of A 19 .
Nota Public
ELIZABETH ANN NL'VILLE
NOTARY PUBLIC, State of New York
No. 52.8125850, Suffolk Co
Term Expires March 30, 19,
Chairman Membe 2Member -
Member
Memb�er�
R.P. T. S . A. - 200 - 4/72
BAR-2 - Page 2 of2
tf
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FROM: Assessor
TO: Board of Assessment Review
RE: ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CHANGE TO ASSESSMENT ROLL
DATE: G
r
This will acknowledge order from the Board of Assessment Review
to amend (Number of) assessment items in the
assessment roll in the Town of _ for the tax
year 191
This will acknowledge that the Office of the Assessor has completed
all changes as ordered by the Board of Assessment Review.
Sole Town Assessor
czv-,t+ / J�
C airman of the Board o
Assessors
R.P.T.S.A. - 200 - 4/72
BAR-3
FROM: Board f Assessment Review
TO: Town Clerk
RE: REPORT - BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW - TAX YEAR 19 /
DATE
Attached herewith please find for public filing in your office, the
complete file covering the public hearing (s) of the Board of
Assessment Review, together with changes ordered by this Board to
the assessment roll, Assessors ' acknowledgment, etc.
The duties of the Board of Assessment Review for the grievance
period covering the 19_/_ assessment roll are completed.
Chairman Membe
Member
Member
member
R.P.T. S.A. - 200 - 4/72
Attachment: Form BAR-1 , Parts I and II, Form BAR-3 , Form BAR-4
CC: Town Supervisor - with attachments
Director, Real Property Tax Service Agency - with attachments
Office of Town Assessor - with attachments
Form BAR-4
x
c�g 11�7T.
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�0��'v �✓�"`� - ill�- - � /i��:/w �V /
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.*` SUFFOLK COUNTY
REAL PROPERTY TAX SERVICE AGENCY
COUNTY CENTER. RIVERHEAD , N. Y. 11901
H.RUSSELL HAASE, I.A.O.,C.S.A. 516 PARK 7.4700
DIRECTOR
July 19, 1977
Advised Supervisor Al Martocchia, Town of Southold
that a tape recording of the minutes of the Board of
Assessment Review to be later transcribed would be the
requirements of the law.
Thomas J. Ryan
tjr;j
July 19, 1977
Honorable Albert 1% Aartocchia
Supervisor, 'town oma` Southold
16 South Street
Greenport, New Yorl: 11944
Dear Supervisor Martocchia:
With ragard to your inquiry of July 19, 1977 regarding the
Board of Assessment Review I enclose the following quotation
from the Board of :issessmaut 12eviav, manual prepared by the
State Board of Equalization and Assessment used for training
purposes:
"Generally, summary minutes are sufficient for ordinary
complaints and for statements from the assessor. For these
purposes, one of the members of the Board of Review should be
assigned the task of preparing such summary. However, the
Board, if it deems it necessary or helpful, may make stenographic
or tape records. Where a large volume of testimony is involved,
it is recommended that a written transcript be kept of the
proceedings."
If I may be of any further help, please do not hesitate to call.
Best personal regards.
Very truly yours,
Thomas J. Ryan
Deputy Director
�• tjr,j-
Grievance Day
Town of Southold -3- July 19, 1977
administered the oath as follows :
"Do you solemnly swear that the information you give
herein will be given accurately and truthfully to the
best of your ability?"
Mr. Yes. The measurements are wrong. The
measurements that they based the assessment on are
wrong.
Mrs. The Measurements are wrong?
Mr. Yes . On the other side of that piece
Mrs. What measurements could that be
Mr. They gave this measurement. What they
did was reassessed for a finished basement and they re-
assessed it on the basis of it being 32 feet by 28 feet
and that is not the case. I=have here a scale drawing
of what is actually the case.
Mrs. Now who made the scale drawing.
Mr. I did.
Mrs. You did.
Mr. I took these measurements, yes. This is in err.
The,,, claim that the garage this is an underneath garage
here is 20 by 28. Well, it is 28 across but the garage
is 242 feet long. And, they also claim a finished basement
of 28 feet wide when the finished basement is only 132 f^et
wide the rest is just like ordinary basement , just cellar.
Mrs. What is your idea of finished and ordinary.
Mr. Well I have panelg and sheetrock up on the
finished petition, I put down a floor on it and, you know,
it is a comfortable room as opposed to just exposed beams
in a ceiling and whatnot.
Mr. 2 This section here is exposed beams and cellar cement
Mr. Right, except for a fire wall. There is a firewall
here, of course, which is nditory
Mrs. And this was here before. You just left this off
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Mr. It was done this afternoon. And the assessment,
of course, as you can see varies by a dollar a foot. If
it was an unfinished basement then it is assessed at
$3, the upper floors are assessed at 3 or $2.50 a foot.
If you have a finished basement beneath that then it is
assessed at $4.50 a foot. The difference then in this
case comes to $531 .
Mrs. You folks have any questions or should
I ask Mr. Fox.
Mr. . I have pictured here, these were developed last
night of the unfinished portions of the This is what
it looks like down there
Mr. 2 I think they have to directed to Mr. Fox.
Mrs , Mr. Fox,
Mr. Fox What is the questions
Mrs. What is your explanation, Henry
Henrys What is the complaint
Mrs. The complaint is that he is assessed on the entire
basement being refinished when when the entire basement
is not.
Henrys It is assessed at 20 by 28 feet the same as it was
started . The finished basement 28 by 32 is the same
as a, finished basement in a two-story house without a
basement. So his whole basement is not , in the diagram
of it. So, his garage is what we call a garage under,
and that is equivalent of a one-story house with a cellar.
and that comes out to $3.50 This is the finished base-
ment section here, 28 by 32. and that is $4. 50.
Mrs. But he claims that it is not 28 by 32. At I correct?
Mr. I have to mention here that the finished basement
is this section right here and this is plain ordinary
basement and this is the garage. The dimensions of the
garage are wrong also and he claims it is 242 and this is
just plain ordinary basement and this section in here
is finished. It is only 370 sq. ft. in the finished
basement. This is the scale drawing.
Mr. Henrys Evidently there was nobody home when we went
there. We can always go back to check the measurements
out. He claims that it is one way and our card shows that
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it
5-it is another. We are not perfect. We might have made a
mistake so I think that if you wish to have the board go
back and check out .
Mrs. What is the pleasure of the board?
Recheck it
Mrs. Bob, what is your pleasure, what do you think about
it. Mr. Fox has not made a positive statement.
Mr. Fox: I made a positive statement as to the fact that
he is not charged for a finished basement as per say. He
is charged with part of a finished basement and part
unfinished. The difference is that he claims that he has
more unfinished basement than we give credit for. So, I
then suggest that we go back and measure Maybe it would
be a good idea if we make an appointment for tomorrow if
you are going to be there
Mrs. Who is the assessor for this area.
Mr. 2 Mr. Kelsay
Mr. Kelsay: I can't be there today, no.
Mrs. Can you go back there nowt?
Mr. Kelsay No I can be there probably Thursday or Friday.
Mr. Well, if you make it sure for Friday.
Mrs. What's the pleasure of the Board on that?
Mr. If they can give me a time or first thing Friday
morning. What about first think in he morning then I can go
to work.
Mr. Foxs It won't take long. What time do you go to work?
Mr. I have to be to work at S O O. What about 4x00 Friday.
Mr. Fox All Right. I will have Mr. Kelsay stop on the �wr y
home. That would be better.
Mrs. What is the pleasure of the board, that would put it
off quite late. Any objections . No
Mr. Foxs I think it has to be measured regardless
Mrs. O.K. It will be remeasured and we will get the report
1 . •
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and you will eventually here from us in wriging. I would
like to have this if I may.
Mr. Fox: Any chance of it getting xeroxed.
Mrs . Do you have a copy of it. I mean so that Mr. Kelsay can
have a copy of it.
#2 Mr. administered the oath and Mr. Roberts answered
"I do"
There is a descrepincy in one boundary .
Mrs. I mean since 1960 has there been any change in it.
Mt. Roberts: Not that I know of. I think that the note
that you may have seen on there was the adjoining property
of one of the lines. I will not decide on a boundary if
I cannot get a guaranteed survey on that piece of property
on the line ride owned by O'Keefe, a lawyer now, and I went
down to see him and he wanted to sell me the piece of prop-
erty and I don't want it so he wouldn't come to an agreement
on a boundary, so anything you want to call a boundary is
o.k. with me. So, that is what that is in 1960. But,
nothing ever happened. I use to own the property at
Beachwood, a bungaloo, and this is the property in back of it.
I bought it in a tax sale in 1952 and I've been paying taxes
on it all these years, so about four weeks ago I decided I
wanted to build a bungaloo on it and I came down here to
see your building inspector Terry. Terry told me under
no conditions did he think I could build on that land because
it was low land and he advised me to get a map and file it
with the environmental people in Stony Brook showing the
altitudes and whatnot. Rather than going to that expense I
went down there and showed the guy in the environmental
office the land and he has his maps down there which is
Map No. 710 540 that shows this as being wetland. And then
he gives me a. letter"at your request we have inspected
your parcel at Deed Drive and Beachwood, Mattituck and we
have found the area to be approximately 80% salt marsh.
Under the N.Y.S. Title act although we have not . . o
although you have not requested permission to undertake a
specific activity many restrictions exist on development
of land such as yours, The land use regulations which
become effective shortly describe such activities are
permissible on marshes of various types. Since we do not
have copies of these yet available we would suggest that you
check with us when we have them. This document would outline
the restrictions on your parcel and he says he knows under
no condition will the Board of Health allow me to put
tanks, cesspools and septic tanks , nor will I be able to
drive a well. So, on the basis of that, all that I am
interested in is keeping that piece of property in my name
because the environmental agency said that in the future
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sometime
7-sometime in the future, either the county or the State of
N.Y. is going to have to buy this wetland and I want to be
the recorded owner and because I cannot use,it in the mean-
time, I don't see why I should be penalized with taxes .
Mrs. If someone will buy it, it has some value then,
hasn't it?
Mr. Roberts: Nobody will buy it
Mrs . But you just said that the state or the county
might buy it.
Mr. Roberts : Yes, but they will buy it on a comdemnation
Mr. I want to mention that at no time on any tax
roles in Southo Id Town can anything be tax free. There
has to be a value established.
Mr. Roberts : Ok. Put a dollar on it.
Mr. It can't even be that low. There is a minumum.
Mr. Roberts : What's the minimum?
Mr. We will have to ask Mr. Fox.
Mr. Roberts : Well, I have property in Southampton Town
assessed at $5
iIr. Well, we have to see what Sout' old Tows does.
Mr. noberts.
Mrs. May I see your material there, I will return it .
We can't do anything, Mr. Fox. We are waiting for him to come
back. This looks as though it could be wetland .
Mr. ^ox: This property is down by the beachwoods?
Mr. Roberts : Yes.
Mr. Fox: And you have contacted the 'MaYestate Dept. of
Environmental Conservation
Mr. Roberts : Yes
Mr, Fox: And they said . , Mrs. Chairman
Mrs. Yes.
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Mr. Fox: It is unfortunate that they do not have this
document printed yet because we don't know what the
particulars are on it.
Mr. Roberts :: Well I do
Mrs. Do you have anything in writing from them
Mr. Roberts : Outside of the man's word This is the man
that signed the letter says that "I know that the Dealt of
Health will not let you put eesspnnis on that land or
septic tanks nor can you draw water from that land . And
that was also verified by a person down there by the Mme
of Gene L. Gillum.
Mrs. What's that name again?
Mr. Roberts : Gene L. Gillman. He is the principle
engineering technician of the N.Y. Dept. of Environmental
Conservation.
Mrs. Now, did he put that in writing, though?
Mr. Roberts: No, he did not. That is what he verbally told
me.
Mrs. Well, see we have to have something in writin g.
Well, now, Mrs. Chairlady. Mr. Roberts feels
that he wants 100 % tax relief on that propety Now I
understand under your town rules nothing can be 100 % tax
free, -
Mrs.
Mr. We ran into that with the Orient Point Hotel
Mr. Fox: There has to be. If taxable property is so called
worthless it does not alter the fact that it is ther e
and a token assessment of recognition of it being there
Mrs . This is just to save any argument. This is the
rule. You address me
Mr. Roberts : Then you answer me. What is the lowest token assess
ment.
Mrs. Off of the top of my head I couldn't tell you. Mr.
Fox, do you know what it is?
Mr. Fox: The lowest token assessment we give is $100
assessment
Mrs. An assessment of $100. Now some of those wetlands
in some of those places were reduced some years ago« Now
has that changed.
Mr. Foxe The Town has a scenic easement where there is a
50% across the board eduction of the assessment. That
must be granted by the town board.
Mrs. But this is strictly wetlands?
Mr. Fox. This piece of property is not big enough to
qualify under the town easement program, just the
large areas.
Mr. Roberts : In other words in Southold Town there is
nothing on the tax roles for less than $100.
Mrs. That is what Mr. Fox just told us.
Ir. Fox: We have been updating. In the years past
they use to go as low as $259 but we have been updating
right along to $100. There are a couple we missed but
we will catch up to them.
Mr. Roberts : That just gives authority to you If you wanted
to use, your authority the other way because of a worthless
piece of land you could.
Mrs. We would have to establish a policy for it
It could not be for you or anyone who comes in.
Mr. What Southold Town has done is set a $100
minimum
Mrs. Well, that is what I say. It is the town 3.t
is not one individual. May I ask who has the card?
Mr. Foxe Mrs . Chairman, may I say One thing?
Knowing the land it is , or has been in the past titled
marshland to a certain degree, and yet that isduring
high tide, very high tide. It hasn't mush elevation
but u*tLI there are adequate laws or he has
the restrictions from the health department, we must
assume that it is worth what we have it assessed for.
But as soon as he can produce evidence to the fact that
he is restricted from building on it and so on.
Mrs. In other words he would have to apply first-off
for a permit to build. That is the idea
Mr. Foxs Yes
Mrs . And then prove that it is no good. Yes, go ahead
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Mr. Robertsi In order for me to apply for a permit I
have to go th the expense of $150 for a survey of that
piece of property for the elevations and so forth. Then in
the end I know I am going to be told no so why should I have
to go overboard $150 on throwing good money after bad.
Mrs. I don't know whether you folks would agree with me
but Mr. Rox I think it might be worth while for the board
to get a ruling not only on this case but any similar case
from the county.
Mr. Foxy That is the county ruling. We are aware of what the
county has and we are not going abainst any ruling.
Mrs. By Charging $100 you mean
Mr. Foxt That is right. That is the sole right of the
assessor to assess the property in his jurisdiction.
Mr. Roberts May I quote something from the watchman
from two weeks ago:
Mrs . Yes, we all saw that article.
Mr. Roberts : Well, did you read this part: about this guy
Becker
Typically the violation involves a property owner which
has undertaken a construction project with a state d e c
permit. Such permits are required in cases where projects
are near wetlands. All constructions within 300 ft of title
wetlands and 100 ft of fresh water wetlands is normally
permitted-prohibited.
Mrs . But the thing is you still have waterfront.
Mr. Roberts : I don't need waterfront.
Mrs. No, but in most instances that is where the
bases is.
Mr. I am posing this question to you. This land
has been in your hands since 1960 correct.
Mr. Roberts : No since 1952
Mr. Well, the last thing we ha✓e is 1960 on this card.
And all this time you have been carrying on $600 value.
Mr. Roberts : No I didn't It has been assessed for the last
four or five years at $400.
Mr. /Well since 68 it has been at $400
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Mr. Roberts: Why did they reduce the assessment.
Mr. The question is that Mr. Boundaries
are being questioned.
Mr. Roberts: Right
Mr. So since 1970 it has been at $400 My question
would be this , since 1970 to 1977 has it lost that
value?
Mr. Roberts t Yes
Mr. Then why haven't you complained since 1970
Mr. Roberts Because I . Just found out about it. Because
in the meantime I have been holding this land as you can
see I bought it in 1952 and now the time has come when my own
home is too big for me and I figured on selling my bigger
home and putting up a summer bungal6o down there. I spend
six months in Florida and six months up here and I thought
that is where I was gonna move my summer place and now I find
out that I can't build on it.
Mrs. Get us that letter from the environmental department
Mr. They have you down, Mr, as 2/3 of an acre
Mr. Roberts That's about ri&ht
Mr. And you figure that about half of that is fully wetland
Mr. Roberts : I don't say that, no. They do.
Mr. They Do
Mr. Roberts : It's nice and high and dry in the front. You
can have bungaloos build on stilts. Everything is built
on piles down there. The water goes under it. I lived
ther since 1934 in a bungaloo and I know what is like.
Mrs. Tow., figure they wou Idn't let you.
Mr. Roberts: No. They said under no conditions, becaua
those tanks world be in the rear of the property and they
would run off into the wetlands.
Mr. And I doubt that you could get fresh watee there
either.
Mr. Robertsi You would get brackish water on the property
but I know where to get fresh water down there.
Mrs. This is the notice we got of all the maps
that are available
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I think we can summarize this whole thing with advice
from Ed Fox on what his thinking is on this matter.
Mrs . $100 is the going rate on wetlands . Now we hav
to decide and check.
Mr. Fox: When someone has ^0 or so acres of it we red,,ce it
to $50 or 20.30 or 40 acres. We are talkingabout building
lots now.
Mr. I mean Mr. Roberts has made a very interesting statement
that he hasn't got that much wetland but he is restricted
as to building on it .
Mr. Fox: The members of the board had put a question to me
may I answer it?
Mrs. Yes. Go ahead
Mr. Fox: I think that he has got hand of doubtful use.
Doubtful because the letter confirms my saying that even
in the letter he did not say what could be done or what
not to be done but has to wait until this pamphlet or
booklet can tell *hat has to be done. So, that shows that
there is some doubt as to whether he has full ,;_se of the land
and if he has to wait for this booklet to come out, so
that should be taken into consideration
Mr. Roberts May I address the Board
Mrs. I was just going to ask you.
Mr. Roberts: I am willing to gamble thtt way. You give me
an assessment of $100 . Rath;Rr than waiting for this book
and have a 'Long interpretation. and be �U A for a higher
assessment for the coming year then if I find out after the
book is published that I really have no use for the land
I :.ill come back and see you age in. How is that?
Mrs. We cannot give you an answer now under any
circumstances. We are not permitted. You havemade your
offer. We have listened to your offer . Within a couple
weeks we will write you and tell you my decision. We
make no decisions today. on anything anybody comes in.
We make no decision at all. We listen to you, we take
notes We have the tape. Next week after we have everything
we sit again and make our decisions and then we will
write you a letter. Lou and everybody that comes in here
today
Mr. Roberts t Well i would like to_ walk out of here today with
some assurance
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Mrs, We cannot. Legally we cannot. We listen to you,
we ask you questions to enlighten us to a situation, we ask
Mr. Fox. You have seen and heard what we have done and
we a all taking notes, we will all meet and then we will
let you know.
Mr. Roberts s Well, I will hope for the best.
Mrs. Thank you for coming.
#3 Mr. Mayer
01r. administered the oath and Mr. Myer answered
"I do"
Mrs . It is customary to enter the house if you are
there the assessor may ask you if he may enter.
Mr. Myers There was somebody there. My in-laws were there
Mrs They may ask you but if they have pictures of the
house
Mr. Myers The one question was that when I called
they said I have a full basement. Now that house is
approximately 1300 sq. ft
ir. I might add at this point and it is relevant
is a basement with a question mark behind it.
Mr. Myers See, I have dirt under there. There are even
some parts that I can't even get to it is so close to the:
ground. It is only build on piling. I have no footings for
that house and it is filled in with dirt.
Mrs. ' On that basis they have a question and they
did not charge you for a full basement.
Mr. Myers I have a basement just big enough for a heating
unit.
Mrs . They have not the word basement, they have the word
and two big question marks which means accordingto
our figures that you were not charged for a full basement .
They did not assess you on a full basement.
Mr. Myer Nhen I called they did say that it was a basement.
That shoots down that argument . They did say that when we
called. And then I was wondering if the construction
has nothing to do with it when you assess a house.
Mrs. The type of construction
Mr. Foxs Well, definitely
-13
Mr. Myers Well, here is a house that is built on
24 inch centers with 2 by 6 joints and 2 by 4 rafter s
and it is certainly not a well constfpcted house buil d on
pilings. If you were to buy this hou se, naturally you
are goind to look and you are going to see thele things
so, just by coming around on the outside I don 't think
you would really know.
Mrs. Do you realize that you have this house insured
for more than it is assessed at?
Mr. Myers How do you reassess. What is the figure
Mrs . 25%
Mr, Myers Well, the figure we were using was , it said 122 %
but as far as insuring to be truthful with you , I didn't even
know until now, what we had insured it at. My buddy is my
insurance agent. And he just maps it as he sees ,
Mr. As the value increases .
Mr. Myers Yes , but he re ally doesn' t know the value of
prop e rty.
Mrs. You mean you insurance man doesn't know the value
of property s
Mr. Myers Well, he lives in Jersey and he is insuring on
Fiaher's Island. I don't say this house wouldn't be worth
$30,000 where I live in in Westerlund, but not on Fishers
Is'-and. My argument was really with the construction of the
house. I have two brothersin-laws living on the island
and both of-them payed less than I did for my home. I don't
think people on the island are giving away houses. They paid
less than me and they are paying considerably less
Mrs. One fellow has good luck in buying them and
maybe the fellow that he is buying them from has some reason
that he wants to unload and somebody down the street may
7.ang on.
Mr. Foxs Mr. Myer, did you buy that in 1970
Mr, Myers In 1970 for $13,000. The whole thing boils down
to that i was using 122 % so now at 122 % I was assuming that
the house was worth about X0,000 on today's market,
because I did read something here on the back about 122
Mrs. That's 'Very misleading and that is given solely
for the town purposes, for the school tax but our assessment
figure, the simplest way is 25%. It doesn't truly make any
-14-
difference what the percentage is . Everybody in the town
is assessed at the same rate .
Mr. That increases your assessed valuation and
levels off your tax rate.
Mrs. Everybody is at 21% of what the: their, market
value is.
Mr. Myer So what is the market value on my housenow.?
Mrs. Mr. Foxs
Mr. Foxs 95% of 1945 values.
Mrs . That's the other thing. We are going on 1965
If they ever reassess the whole town .
Mr. Myers You mean they don't plan on doing the whole town?
Mrs . Oh, they will eventutlAy, yes. But I should have said
when they do it . Someday it will be done. But they have to
keep everyone on ire same basis and if you want the whole
town reassessed at once you aregoing to pay more taxes because
it is going to cost thousands of dollar s to do that You
realize that.
Mr. Myers I don't think so, I can'tqgree to that.
Mr. Fox: You were very nice in saying thousands of dollars
It would cost over a quarter of a million dollars.
Mrs. Lytles They would all need computers and it would
get so much for each parcel.
Mr. Myers It just seems like such an unfair way. Because
they are not going to reach them for three or four five years,
- - - - -they- go along and get a free ride. It seems to me that when
you need x amount of dollars you get it and when you get
the whole island re»evaluated then you can. . .
Mrs. Lytles Have you any conception of what it is to
re-evaluate the whole area at once as a business man.
Mr. Myers Look, how many houses are we talking about
400 houses .
Mrs. Lytles Oh, no.
Mr. Myers How many houseg , I mean on Fisher's Island I
am Ilking about.
Mrs. Lytles Well, if you do Fisher's Islaad you have to do
the rest of Southold. You are part of Southold, it is the
whole town
-15
if you are going to equalize the whole thing.
Mrs. Lytle : Yes, Mr. Fox
Mr. Fox: If you use your theory to do Fi „her, T.:”and.
at one time, yes . You would have to do the whole town
at once.
Mrs . Lytle: That's what I say. Fisher's Island is part
of Southold The people over here could complain just
like you then.. They are reassessing all the time. They
try to take different sections . You have three assessors working
all the time plus the new buildings .
Rr. Myers Yes , but then you see they tell us we have a new
school over there and that is why our taxes are so high.
Mrs. Lytle: Well, that's because you built a new school
That has nothing to do with assessed valuation.
Mr. Myers Well , that is fine , but you haven't all the
people on Fisher's Island paying for that thing equally
and you won't get it for years if you do it this way. You
can have someone living in a $100,000 house because he hasn't
been reassessed in the last 20 years he is paying less taxes
than Iam .
May I interject,
Mr. You never leave a house go for that period of time
without reassessment . We try to get to all of them, there
are some yet to be done. The theory that he wants a
reduction would throw it further out of line. It is going
to destroy some of the work that has already been done .
Mr. Myers Yes, but suppose that I told you that when I
called they told me that my hou se was never assessed.
Mrs. Lytle; Who Vold. you that
Mr. Myers On the phone. Was it ever assessed?
Mrs. Lytle: Sure it was. When did you buy it, in 1970?
Mr, Myers 1970 They said $2, 600 at that time.
Mr. Thnx you had some building done on it, it
was increased, in six years.
Mr. Myer: I put a deck on it. Is that it?
Mrs , LTtle s Yes
Mr. Myer: I will take the deck down. That's not an
addition to the house, really.
Mr. It is an addition to the value of you r property
-16-
Mrs. Lytles A house with a deck is worth more.
Mr. Now, don't get under the impression that your
rate was doubled because of that, the deck.
Mrs. Lytles You were reassessed then you had the deck put
on about the same time and that's what lead you to believe
the deck was what caused it to go so high.
Mr. Myers No, but, I won't mention names of course , but
I have a brother-in-law and his house is assessed as the
same as mine now he got reassessed and we hav en't done
anything to our house, and he goe& to $3,100 and I go
to 50 some hundred. Now, if it had been assessed previously
how could they be so far off. The house hasn't changed.
Mrs. Lytle: Yes, but that assessment figure was a real old
assessment figure .
Mr. Myers Yes, but you said you go through them every five or six
years.
Mrs . Lytle: We go around and bring them up to the 965 date.
We are doing that all the time. That plus the new ones. '
Mr. I am going to add at this point that your deck
was only $500.
Mrs. Lytle: Do you have house in your area that compares
to this.
Mr. Myers The houses are all different. I mean it is not
like any project, they are all built diff erg t. I wouldnft
know.
Mrs. Lytle: Have you any idea when this house was built
AMr. Myers No, my relatives house. His hoBe is a
two-story house where mine is a single stoy Nous e .
Mr. And he is assessed for $3,100.
Mr. Myers He has a full basement , he put all new siding on
the house a new root" on the house and he is assessed at . . .
and we were paying approximately the same before.
Mrs. Lytles When was he reassessed
Mr. Myer: Same time
-77
-17-
Mrs. Lytle: What is the size of his house .
Mr. Myer: W-111 the square footage at the basement
wouldn't be Ahe same but his house goes up, he has a two-story
house . and he has a full basement .
Mrs. Lytle: Well, those things doxIt all count . Just
11ke you are not charged for a full basement.
Yr. Myer: But if we were both as .essed at $2,600 and now
all of a sudden I am at 5,100
Mrs. Lytle : Well, you were very lucky that this vras assessed
at $2,600 back from when .the house was built. When was the house
built:
Mr. Myers 50 years.
Mrs. Lytles Well, I won't say this was 50 years ago but
this was . .
Mr. Myer: This was a summer cottage. That is why I say
structurally I would say it is not that sound a house because
it was a summer cottage.
Yrs. Lytle: Over the years it has been updated. and make cmari
Mr. Would you like for us to have the card pulled on
this other party that you are mentioning. We can do that
and give you a comparison.
Mr. Myer No, I_ might raise his . I am not heft to raise
somebody elses taxes. I am just her a for my own taxes .
Mrs. Lytle : We have nothing to do about lowering or raisi),g
taxes on the property if the party does not come here . You
are permitted to use them as comparisons. We do not do
anything to the tax.
Mr. Myer: I could pick out E> house and you could say well we have
n't gotten to him yet. I donit even know what houses you
even get to.
Mr. Fox: When you did mention a specific house that is what
made me question your brother-in-law.
Mr. I don't think we are going to resolve this
without some comments from Mr. Fox and his thinking on this
particular thing
Mr. Foxs This is previous to property record cards and
when they copy it off the role *hey just put it in without
a date . Next was when it was reviewed we put all this
On it.
-1$-
Mr. Meyer: When I bought that house the gentleman I
bought it from, he was paying $160 taxes .
Mrs, Lytle: Well, don't forget taxes have gone up.
Mr. Meyer: Ok. Then when I bought it they raised it to$260
then in the course of a few years it went up to$460 and
then it jumped to $1 ,139 or something.
Mrs . Lytle: I haste to show you my tax bill over the yearn
as it goes up. This is not reassessing. This is just your
taxes
Mr. Meyer: $00% in 8 years. That is kind of a big jump.
Mr. Fox: Just a minute. I would like to look at that .
Only one time it was up for an assessment review. So
seven out of eight years it was a rate increase.
Mrs . Lytle: That's what I was trying to tell the gentleman.
Mr. Fox: Recause of your town taxes you r school tax and
your county taxes. These were rate increases not assess-
ment Increases . In eight years you say a little too much,
well I can go back further than that with my house it is
14 years with nothing but increases and increases. Only
one or two of them were assessment increases. You must remember
what Chairman, Mrs. Lytle says that in eight years onl y
one year there was assessment increases . The rest of them
were due to rates which we have no control over.
Mrs . Lytle: In other words he has been fortunate.
Mr. Fox: I will say that it is a fair assessment.
Mrs. Lytle: Anything else you want to tell us.
Mr. Meyer: Well, if you can just tell me what the market
value is of that house. Could you give me that figure?
Mrs. Lytle: Well, if it has been assessed at $5,800 and you
pay four times $5,800 that is what we figure as your _.arket
value as ' of 1965.
Mr. Fox: Everything is based as of ,19 65.
Mr. Meyer: The market value is $23,200 as of 1965 .
Mrs . Lytle: Yes
Mr. Fox: The owner, who would be the seller, is the
one who would determine the market value
_19-
Mrs. Lytle: Yes What he could get. We are giving him
i � general idea
Mr. Meyers That's not fair. If somebody wanted to give me a
$100,000 for my house, you are going to tell me thatthat
is the market value.
Mrs. Lytle: We will consider it. Within a couple weeks
you will hear from us by mail. Is there anythiing else you
wish to say
Mr. When you used the !a,ord market value, I think
what we gave you was assessed value was 0239200 of which
you were assessed 25;x. or $5,800. , gross assessed val ue.
Mr. Meyer: But when you set these figures , you dont
consider what it might be worth on today's market.
Mrs. Lytle: No, not today's market, 1965. When they assess
they assess at that value. So strictly speaking you are
all on the sage level. Any further questions. Thank you
for coming in.
Mr. Meyer: I guess I wouldn't have felt so bad if I
had known everybody was being assessed, but when you see
one guy paying $460 for a house than heid more than
you and ahead of you and you are paying 1,100 you just
feel.
Mrs. Lytle: Is he a neighbor of yours.
Mr. Meyer: He is another brother-in-law. See, I don't
live out this way so I don't have access to the tax roles .
Mr. As I say the offer stands we can compare that
property with yours and give you a more clear answer.
Mr. Meyer: No, I never used anybody in my life I an -,ot
going to use my brother-in-law.
Mr. Let me clarify something, We'll take one
neighbor's property in line with them and say Joe pays
this, Mary pays this, Oscar pays that and I pay that, and
it si legitimate, and the tax assessor explains why that
occurs. So, when we ask you that question, we are trying
to be fair to you not unfair to anybody else.
Mrs. Lytle: May I call your attention to this paragraph
You got all this stuff from the state and spent alot of time
and"use a a uniform percentage at a set date, so that
makes everything the same.
Mr. Meyer: Yes, but if you read a little farther you would
find a little bit more on that.
-20-
MrsLytle: Listen, we were told that it would cost, today,
a minimum of 25 dollars per parcel to reassess and by the
time that this town goes for it it will be twice that.
And that will be added to you r taxes plus the 1975 values .
And do you know what the 1975 values are in 1977•
Mr. Meyer: When these gentlemen come in to measure our house
they were gone within ten minutes. They just walked around
with a tape and measured all sides and then it is all over.
You are payint $25 afar that .
Mrs. Lytle: I am talking about, you would have to hire an
outside firm to have it all done at once. And as far
as these gentlemen are concerned, it is just like anybody
else in business. They are doing the same thing all day
long, they know how to do it,the y know how to guage,
they know what it is all about, they know much mor e
about it than you living there.
Mr, Meyers I tell you one thing, if you had sent me a form,
I could have given you as accurate a description as they
did.
Mrs. Lytle: Anything else gentlem ens that you would like
to ask.
Mr. Meye-r: The basement , though, it doesn't say just a
question mark. It has full and then a question mark. It
doesn't say question mark period, like we don't know what
is in there .
Mrs. Lytle : Full, the question is for the full, Ok,
we will check it all over when we have ol.,r meeting and we
will write you as to our decision.
Mr. Meyer: All right, thank ycu for your time.
#4 Mr. administered the oath and 19r Swiatochia answered
"I d0"
Mrs. Lytle: $5,440 - that is what you have on the form
Mrs. Sgiatochia: Yes, that is what I have on my tax bill.
Mrs. Lytle: And you want it reduced to $6,900
Mrs . Swiatochia: No, that is what they. . .
Mrs . Lytle: Let me see that form. Oh, this form is not filled
in properly. The assessed valuation appearing on the
assessment rale is $6,9009 total land and building is
$7,600, and the old one is $699000 would you change that
down there , please,
-21-
Mrs . Swiatochia s What is it now
Mrs. Lytle : There is your form, your old one with $6,900
initial it please. No, this here, you want your new
amount.
Mr. That is the new amount
DIrs . Lytle : No it isn't. $7,600 is . Now have you got that
filled in properly. You have it insured for $5,000.
Mrs . Swiatochia; That is the traitor park. That is my
complaint.
Mrs. Lytle : The trailor park insures it for $5,000. Just a
second while we look it over. We Would like to see it.
Mrs . Swiatochia: The addition
Mrs. Lytles Wbat cost $3,500
Mr. Foxe The addition
Mrs. Swiatochia: Wetl, you see, we hada trailor back
there and we couldn't keep it back there. Zoning said we
had to put on ars addition. So we ', put on an addition
which cost $3,500 and then last May we had a storm and
it took the complete addition off and so they replaced
the addition with the same windows and the same doors and
we also had an awning on the side which was 20 by 10
which we did not replace. It was $2,500 to replace the storm
damage and then we got reassessedxon- that. We never
added anything on, we put everythi*g right backthe same as
it was . It was $1 ,000 cheaper to put everything b ack ar ,�
yet we we were reassessed for $900 more for just replacing
what the wind blew down.
Mrs. Lytle: I would like to see the card first.
Mrs. Swiatochia: Still there, sane windows , same door--
And
oorsAnd within 6 months period
Mr. See wnce you got a reduction on it, didn't you
Mrs. Swiatochias A reduction, no we never got a reduction.
Mr. When you were assessed on Januar29, 1976
$7,200 and on May 13, 1976 it was reducted to 6,900.
Mrs. Swiatochia: How could it be reduced when our taxes
went up $300.
Mrs. hytle: Mr. Fox would you be good enough to explain these
figures to us .
-22-
Mr. Fox: Well, let's see. This is the figure before it
blew down, $79200 - This is the reduction we gave it after
the wind hit it and this is then when we went back after
it had been replaced.
Mr. The question that is stated by Mrs . Swiatochia at
this point is that the replacement was at the same value
as the 6amage was before. And, therefore, they feel that the
value had not been increased. All they did was replace
storm damage.
Mrs. Swiatochia: That is right, exactly. We had to do that
in order to meet the zoning requirements, to keep the trailor.
There was nothing added, in fact, we didn't even add the
awning which was $520 just for the awning withott th e labor
So actually it was a reduction of $1 ,000 to replace it.
The insurance agent thought th at th e awning was what
made it go off the first place.
Mr. Fox: As far as I can see here the awning never was put
on because there is no measurement for an awning ever being
on so it wasn't on in the first place so when it blew off
it didn't make any difference.
Mrs . Lytle: Did you put the awning on some time separately?
Mrs. Swiatochia: No. It was put on the same time we had the
addition put on.
Mrs. Lytle : Excuse me, the same ti me the addition was put on
The first addition
Mrs. Swiatochia: The original addition.
Mr. Fox: We didn't charge you on it because we did nit
feel that put any value to it.
Mrs. Lytle: The awning would be like putting curtains up.
No, you were not charged for the awning.
Mr. Fox: If I may continue, this is the addition
that is on it and the addition was put on at the same rate
which probably happened before, the rate before was probably
lower and that is the difference. A $2 rate is not a
bad rate for it. So when you had it trefore you enjoyed it
at a lower rate.
Mr. I think the question is the fact that they
theoretically replaced something exactly as they had before
and they wonder why there rete was increased.
Mrs. Lytle : Mr. Fox, what makes the difference between this
and this if they just put the original back .
-23-
Suppose
23_Suppose they went back to what it was , would
that be $7,200
a,,2r. Fox: While you are conferring with the card , this is
the only- thing that I can see is that the rates being quite
Fair that the rate previous was lower and this is the same
review where tl�_:y upped it. It is the only explanation I
can. give.
Mr. Ire other words the rate base was increased.
Mr. Foxs That is correct
Mrs. Swiatochias Yes , but you had just been there a couple
of months before that and reassessed us and then when the
storm damage was done , we just relaced exactly what was
there so why should that co,rt us 900.
Mrs. Lytles That's the Southold Zoning Law. How come you
have it insured for such a little amount.
Mrs. Swiatochias It's aluminum
Mr. I have this question in my mind. I'm
not partial either way on this , but this was reassessed within
six months of the previous reassessment, how come the rates
suddenly had to be elevated.
Mrs. Swiatochias Yes , that's a very good question.
Mr. Fox: Well, Mr. Hughes?, that is a good question.
Well, it either looked to the assessors to be a much better
addition than the previous one was or else the previous
one was much under assessed and it was corrected by the
new higher rate.
Mr. Hughes: Yes , I appreciate that but wouldn't that have been
obvious 6 months earlier.
Mr. Fox: If this had been replaced and a better replacement,
no it wouldn't, but if it was the same replacement for
six months 1attr, it was an error on our part in the first
puce. We were assessing it too low.
Mrs. Lytle : How much did you say the replacement cost you?
Mrs . Swiatochia s $2, 500 May I also add that we have
been reassessedtbrae times in four years.
Mr. Foxs Mrs . Chairman, in answer to that it was
because of building per mits and so forth, that's
why they were assessed so many times , flip the card.
Mrs . Lytle : In 1968 they did some work, they had a building
permit, so in 1969 it was increased
a�
-24-
Mr.
24-Mr. Hughes: Then in 1975 they had a building permit for am
addition for $29500-
Mrs .
2,500.Mrs . Lytle: That is the replacement
Mr. Hughes s That is the replacement for t h e storm damage .
Mrs. Swiatochia: Yes, exactly. We used the same windows ,
the same doors.
Mrs . Lytle: Are there any other questions . Is there anything
else you would like to say.
Mrs . Swiatochia: When I questioned why this was , they said
they just came back to check that the replacement was put
back on. I will go along with that to o, but then I
get a notice that we are increased $900.
Mrs. Lytle : You mads: your point. We meet in another week or
so and make our decisions and you will b e notified by mail.
Thank you for coming.
Mrs. Swiatociaias Thank you very much.
#5 Mr. administered the oath and Mr. Wilton answered "I do"
Mrs. Lytles The first thing you are going to have to do,
we cannot act on it unless you fill in the amount to which you
wish the assessment.
Mr. Wilton: Ok I have it on her e.
Mr. Wiltons You have taken an oath that you are telling
the truth so I would assume that the things you say here
water has not been hooked up, sewer system hasn't been
hcoked up, electricity, the buildimV are not eomplete_� the
walks the roads. Your place is not finished. It is not
finished?
Mr. Wiltons No, not to this extent.
Mrs . Lytle : Ire other words these claims are ok.
Mr. Wilton: This is a fLi it s tat emat, these are t h e major
things I have left to do to be able to open up.
Mrs . Lytles When do you think you will be able to opens up
on this basis .
Mr. Wilt+dn: I really dont know. It could be as latt e
as early next year
-25
Mrs. Lytle s Yes , Mr. Fox
Mr. Foxs Mrs. Chairman, I would like to co ref irm something
here. May I see the card. You will notice the date of
this assessment id 2/ 5/77, February 15, 1977. We made an
appointment with the gentleman and he was kind enough to
take us all through the place and what he says is true.
The condition, is what he says . At that t1me he fully
expected to be all completed and to be in business before
June 1 . We promptly-, but we can't go everywhere, and
this gentleman cooperated, we put a full assessment on
as of June 1 because he expected to have the place opened
by then. And he said it in all honesty. But things happen
and I have noticed by driving past that there is no activity
there. He came in the other day and he sa-d he never
got any further then when you were there. I have had labor
trouble. So, I will recommend that with this , this was
taken as completed date but it was not. It was assumed it
would be completed as June 1 .
Mrs. Lytles In other words as I have started to say befor e,
you have mad e a sworn statement, so we can take your
sworn statement that it is not completed. And on that
basis we will make our decision.
Mr. Wiltons I can even show everybody around up there .
Mrs. Lytles We cannot give you an answer tod ay, technically,
legally and everything else we cannot. We meet within a
week's time and make a decision and will notify you by
mail.
Mr. Wiltons I have no objection to the assessment , the way it
was done.
Mrs. Lytles The assessment was $5,900 before and if you
ever get completed you are agreeable to the $239500.
Mrs. Wiltons Yes.
Mrs. Lytles Thank you for coming.
Mr. Wiltons Thank you.
#6 Mr. Raab ' administered the oath and Mr:�. Bail
answered "I do"
Mr. Just for a point of information the owner has
changed from Irving Bail.
Mr. Bails Irving Bail is deceased -
Mr. Oh, I just wanted to get it clear in my mind.
-26-
Mrs
26-Mr. Bails . . .a piece which was already heated.
The house had a piece missing out of it, the cof'ner, so
we added an 8X8 to fill it in.
Mrs. Lytles Is this heated and everything.
Mr. Bails It was
Mrs. Lytles I mean the 8x8 that you added.
Mr. Bails Yes, now it is
Mrs. Lytles In other words you just made a larger.
Mr. Bail. Yes , we maa th porch a little larger and we
changed the front, we, petition in between. We made
two other rooms in the house a little larger.
Mrs. Lytles Have you any idea how much that job cost you?
Mr. Bails Somewhere around $1,400 because I used materials
If you look in that picture. .
Mrs. Lytles The materials, how much were the materials. Did
you do the job yourself or did you have
Mr. Bails I had help. If you look on th e picture
Mrs . Lytles You mean, you did part of the work yourself
Mr. Bails Yes, a good part of the work.
Mrs. Lytles And how much did the materials cost you
Mr. Bails I don't ret%ly know. The contractor bought them
I couldn't give you a honest opinion. I would say about
half the cost
Mrs. Lytles What would that be
Mr. Bails About seven or $800 for the mater ial
Mrs . Lytle : &7 - 800 for the material. That's not your labor
Mr. Bails No, I even put down for my own labor, just what
the contractor supplied he did- what I couldn't do.
Mrs . Lytles The $7 - 800 doesn't include the contractor
Mr. Bails These are just materials, approximate) y $1 ,400 all
total
Mrs, Lytles Not includiLqg your own labot.
Mr. Bails No.
-27-
Mr, Bails It was done in my spare time , after work. If I
could explain that picture to you .
Mrs . Lytle: All right, just a second, You have your property
insured for $2,600
Mr. Bail: Approximately
Mr. The main reason for your increase was not
particularly for that increase you put on. I t was the
fact that your property had not been reassessed since
1969. Am I correct?
Mr. Bail : I got this in the mail three wee'_zs a-o, This
means it shouldnOt have been raised this year it shoull
'nave been for xe<-t year. That is why I objected to it .
I think the rates were raised before it was due .
Mr. It brings it up to $4,900 which is his new
base including the addition that he put on, and the
fact that the property has been revalued. In other words , it
is the first time you got a raise.
Mr. Bail : It was $230 at one time, then it went to $:160
then it went to $425, now it has gone to $700.
Mr. Like we have pointed out to previous people,
people do not take into consideration your base was not raised,
the rate was raised because of the schools and everything
else like that which, if you look at your bills, it is the
increased tax rate not the increase valuation that raise your
property.
Mr. Bail: Well, thea, why is the valuation so much for a small
addition.
Mr. It isn't. It's a small addition plus the fact
that you have had no revaluation of your property for 13years.
In other words a house that was worth $4,000 13 years ago is
worth $25,000, now. They reevaluate your property on that
basis . It is done on a 1965 basis .
FgdyBjjJh. I should buy a boat and not pay any taxes like aPy-
Mrs, Lytle : That's the way the cookie crumbles.
Mr, The fact Is that your property had been under-
assessed for a long period of time, and probably when this
was done, they reassessed it up to dat ,
Mrs. Lytle: Thank you.
=?g_
Mr. administered the oath and Mrs . Jeanne Wall
answered "I do"
Mrs. Wall: I can give you the picture right he re. That
is why I drew them. There is a copy inside, I made three
of each one. Now, the circled number is the present assessmen t
The one that isn't circled is the assessment from 1975-76•
Mrs , Lytle: Are your houses really comparable and your
land comparable.
Mrs. Wall : Yes , it is all along the water
Mrs. Lytle: The sire of the hous a and the size of the lard
Mrs. Wall; Yes, some of them are two houses . One is
commercial land definately. And two others are used as
commercial land. One in particular is a marina. The
value of that
Mr. They just land filled in there in the past
two years to the point of some f antastic land. I just
checked the latest assessment role and they h aven't been
reassessed.
Mrs. Lytle: They were not doing any business, right,
Mr. Yes , they put up a big storm and a storage shed
Mrs.* Wall: Three stories high
Mrs . Lytle: Can you get a sum of this land.
Mrs. Wall: The one we are talking about, the commercial land
is located right in this area and we have three lots,
there is a house thee, and a house there, a shed.
Mrs. Lytle: I'm sorry, we diAlt realize we were going toget
involved in . . .
Mrs. Walls And around by the peninsula, we can look at the map,
if you start at the lower end starting right in this area
here,
Mrs. Lytle : Let's take them in order.
Mrs. Wall: It is lot No. 61
Mrs. Lytle : There is lot No. 8.9.10. and 11 , but they are
all different.
Mrs . Walls The one around her es I can explain to you,
starting here from 25 to 319 that change d. The next
group the three, there are two houses, there is a huge
-30-
storage facility, an office, it is commercial land. Its
new storage, stores , numerous docks, $13400 assessed
valuation. It makes me a little mad because it is commercial.
They are making money on it. We are Only trying to live
here . The next one is St. Claire, they have a house an d they
have a apartment over a garage, they have a dock that can be
leased. The next one is Mallery, they have a huge dock and they
have a house. The next one is Cooks , it is Only 32 present.
The -Aext is Mr. Plaski, that. is 2500 and that is a business in
there. They run out of there as a business. The next is
4,000 three buildings in the e , three houses , and that is aldo
commercial. Then you come to cook, his was only 116.
ou come around and you have 2, 600. Then you have 600, open
space, 10,600 which is a duplex house, t wo families that live
there. Then the next one if 4,400 that is two homes. There is
or_e in- the front and one in the back . Then we come to the
house we bought from my aunt 5 years ago, one house on it,
that is 6800 now, Now, the next one is 57009 my aunt lives
there now. Now the next one there is open land, they
are building on. it, it has a fou ndation on it. His evaluation
was just ir; �,reased, an open niece of Ian d 800.Burna.m 5700
was not increased, the next one that house is a . .. has a deck,
has a huge long dock, it is a lovely home. This is Bradford.
Then the next one is David Burnam, that house is old but it
has 3200 only.
Mts. Lytle.s If you would put the names On it it would help.
Birs. k We have the cards all ready
Mrs. Walls Thenyou come around to the next point which has
X56 acresand it is only assessed at 1 ,000. I have two lots ,
Jimmy and I 77 and 78. They are only .20 acres can't build
on them and They are assessed at 800. Then we come along and it
is my father's. He has 1 .20 acres and is assessed at $5,000
Then there is open land that was Liven to my sisters and
there assessment for the open land is high, compared to that
point there. Then you come to ours and if you look at the map,
look at how much of what we own it is marshland. The D.E.C .
will rot let us touchit or fill it. We bought t he end for
preventing. . . This is all marsh in here and marsh grass .
We brought our road here along theedge so we wouldn't go
through it. We just feel tha t we have been you know. .
Then you c ome down around to the back cove. Herbie Aldren
there are three homes , two sheds and he is only 4,000. Then
you go ovr to the last one in the inside and that is , i forget
his name, but he has a house and a garage, 3,200 - Collins
Then you come up on the hill and you have Baker. He has 2.96
acres, he has a house, he has a dock and then he has another
one.3 acres.
Mrs. Lytles Well, I tell you what, youm.are telling us alot
of information, but we can't make any decisions on you giving
t ✓l
it that quickly. We can see the cards.
Mrs. Walls That is why I made the map too.
Mrs. Lytles I appreciate the map. You will have to
give us time.
Mrs. Wall: Yes, I know. We didn't realize that we had to
do this last year when we were first assessed.
Mr. That one is 68
Mrs. Lytles Now you have one here that is not
Mrs. Walls Yes, this was. My father
Mrs. Lytles That was increased
Mrs. Walls Yes , it was. And I will tell you why. My
father
Mrs. Lytle: This is a new card
Mrs. Walls Listen, can I tell you. I am not being
rude, lovey.
Mr, Wall? Slow down, slow down.
Mrs, Walls I am so upset
Mrs. Lytles You're losing it and it is Greek to us. .
Mrs. What card is she on now - 1010
4 9 1 2 What war the last number
Mrss Walls I guess I have 1peen thinking about it a long
time.
Mrs . Lytles O.k. Try again
Mrs . Walls ok. My father bought the land back in 1965
The way he purchased it was this wa y. He came and said to
us because we had just part-time jobs . Do you want to go
there and live there . And we said yes. So, he bought the
land we divided it up at that time.I have had this map so
long. So, I paid him from my pocket for the cash, and then
when I was old enough and then when we got married, he
returned it finally into my name. So, I have been paying
taxes on it
Pers. Lytles So this is why this is set up
Mrs . Wall : This is why he finally did it.
_32_
Mrs. Lytle: All right, I don't have to know all your
Have you got the cards . Can you stick around a b;-t.
Mrs. You mehtioA-C Collins . That is an older home there
Trs. Wa`_l: Well, I don't know how you can compare that way
The value of the homes , that doesn't effect the value of the
homes, the age over there. It is the location. - At least ,
_. t 3_s what ? understa-ad. We don' t know iqhat our assessment
is based on.
Mrs. Lytle: Is this an older building that you made over
or do you have two buildings on the property.
Mrs. Walls Which one. No. That is just the living room,
Mr. Wall No, that is just an extension out that way from
the chimneywhich you see on the next picture.
Mrs. Walls That was my aunt's when the other picture was
under there.
Mrs. Lytle s The basement is the pit .
Mr. Wall: Yes.
Mrs. Wall: It has the heating unit in therq , furnace.
There is also room for a washer ai^d dryer in there .
Mrs. Lytle : You have oil heat.
Mrs. Walls Yes . All four of the things are based on the
same.' discussion mumbled as checking map with pictures.
Mrs . Walls Can I say something .
Mrs. I,ytles Just a seco3l, we are trying t o get it straightened
out. SJe got confused. with so many at once.
Mrs. Walls Would you look at the area here . Would you look
at this area. You are talking about 7,8 ,9, and 10. Will
you notice how half of 10 is under water and then 8 more
than half of that is under water.
Mrs. Lytle: Why it is under water?
Mrs. Wall: It is a marsh, it is on the map already.
Mr. Walls Our road to get to the house had to come down
here on this edge, so basically what you do is come over this
area here,
Mrs. Lytle: You have waterfront privacy though.
Mrs. Wall: yes
• 0
-33-
Mrs . Lytle: Living on waterfront, I know what it means.
You pay for that.
r:Rr. Wall: Granted
Mrs. Walls Every house that you pull out is a waterfront house.
Mrs Lytle: If it is under water, you can't touch it . The thing
is you can have that whole piece of land resurveyed and you
only have titlement to what is not under water. That is my
understanding. What is yours Mrs . King
Mrs. Kings That the county. But I would say that if you had
a scenic easement you would go to the town board for that
and this is on the wetlands, yes, go to the town board and
I think they will cut your assessment in half . You
can't sell it. If you do sell it you have to pay the back
taxes. It is yours , but you can't build there , but you do
get a reduced assessment. You have to have a certain amount
of acres , or whatever. It would still remain in your name
Mr. Walls Right
Mrs . Kings But your taxes or your assessment wou 1 d be cut.
Mrs. Lytle: I don't know what you folks feel. I think that
there is a similarity on all these except this one without
a ;building on it, just the land alone.
Mrs , Walls Our driveway you mean
Mr. Walls The one that we filled out the form on. How much
was the assessed valuation.
Mrs. Walls The one that you said your fath er transferred to
you, youdon't have a building on.
Mrs. Lytle : There is no house Livolved I think we will
sit down calmly and spread them out and not get as confused as
we have here today. You have given us alot of references
and we will give considerable time to looking it over,
and if it is, as Mrs. King has said, a case of wetland, we
will advise you on that too. We don't make our decisions for
at least another week at the earliest and we will write .
Mr. Walls We are getting a study completed I started last
winter, and it was the whole island. I have it about 3/4
completed which at some point I will turn over to this board
because I think you are goint to find it wasn't for our
own sake we are doing it there are tremendous inequities that
I really think someone should be made aware of.
Mrs. Lytles Theyha -e started to reassess last year. LP,..,;t
,Tear we had the first complaints from Fisher's Island
-34-
You may feel that you are bein& stuck because you are being
hit now. B,, t, -2_f they hire somebody to do everything at once
it is going to cost a lot of money and youare going to pay
for it. The fellow that got stuck last year, got stuck before
you did. This is the most inexpensive way of doing it for
everybody concerned.
Mrs. Wall: If a person who owns a mansion that has 2C or 30 rooms
had 8 or 10 acres and another garage that the size of a
normal person's house and pays $5,600 and you are paying half
that.
Mrs. Lytle: You may think they are valuable but
you can't sell, you can't get that kind of money for them.
We have a beautiful new shopping center, Bohacks . They
couldn't make a go of it.
Mrs. Udall: Should their taxes be so low
Mrs. Lytle : You say over evaluation
#11 Mr. administered the oath and r:1r. Paul Mitchell
answered "I do"
Mrs . Lytle: Now, what did you say you were complaining about.
The land or the house.
Mr. Mitchell: I complained last year and I am goi ng to
complain this year and I am going to complain next y Ea r and
every year as long as I am alive . Because no one here listens
to me.
Mrs . Lytle: About what
Mr. Mitchell: It -'_s criminal what they do to me on that street
Mrs. Lytle : My question is what are you complaining about the
land.
Mr. Mitchell, The land, right
Mrs. Lytle: The land wasn't increased.
Mr. Mitchell: I don't care whether it was increased or not. I
want a reduction of taxes. The lady I am talking to here
sent me a letter of no avail we can see no point in reducing
your taxes. I think that was . an injustification on your
part saying that.
Mrs. Lytle : Well, that is the decision of the whole board.
P,Zr. Mitchell: How can you truthfully say a thin like that
when you haven't really looked into it and seen the street
-3S
drainage running all along my property. There are trees
coming down there, an erosion problem, stick and stones,
my whole front yard fludded every time there is a rain: storm.
I am getting everybodyts street drainage. The town should
be responsible for it, not me .
Mrs . Lytle : Have -you talked to ar..y one
Mr. Mitchell: I've talked to Ray Dean., it is useless to talk
to him. M can get affidavits from everyone of my neighbors
attesting to it. .
Mrs. Lytle: Have you had a drain or something there?
Mr. Mitchell: yes but that it not lar ge enough for a
large size cesspool. It is 1 3/8 mi. of street drainage
that drains into that one drainage pit which is no lar ger than
a good size cesspool. How can that thing take, when a
rain storm comes , I have arranged ditches on my property so
that the water can run off down into the back that is lower
into the next street. I don't know who's property it is
down there. Neverthe less , it runs over my property, sticks
stones, weeds, bushes , everything and I have to clear.
it up after every rain storm. For me to be charged the same
rate of taxes as the guy, next door is a-n in justifica-.on. How
can they truthfully say that I should be assessed the same
taxes as those people. Why don't they put a couple of street
drains in.
Mrs. Lytle: If you will just bear with me a minute, I have
no authority, let me check.
Mr. Did anybody actually go down and look at the
property. There is a town board at 3:00 today.
Mr. Mitchell: Who is going to listen to me
Mrs. Lytle: Mr. Martocchia and th e town board.
Mr. Mitchell: I have already spoken to Mr. DIartocchia until
I am blue in the face.
airs. LY,t .e : '"hat was rrivately. This is official and
publ ically
Mr. This becomes minutes: of the meetig and everything else.
Mrs. Lytle
Mr. Fox is t'i(r_ r anythi. ,_� you can erli-1r ten us on, since la^t
year.
�wr. Fox: No, I thine we gave him proper advice on both occasions
This is not our problem. This is not a tax assessment problem.
Mrs. Lytle: O.K. Tek you
-36-
Mr. Mitchell: I went to see A°r, Martocchia and he said
it was not his problem.
Mr. Fox: I agree with Mr. Mitchell. It is t he town
board and Ray Dean'S problem
Mr. Mitchell: I have been complaining to Ray Dean for
15 years and he hasn't listened to me.
Mrs . Lytle: I think we will take it under consideration
as we do all our complaints but at the momentsince
the town board is meeting they will meet at 3:00,
Mr. Mitchell: If you put a recomendationto lower my
taxes in leiu of the work they don't do that would at least
bring it to their attention.
Mrs. Lytle : I don't think we have that authority.
Mr. Mitchell: Won't you put in a recommendation for that.
.;1rs. Lytle: No
Mr. Mitchel-It See , everybody passes the buck in this town.
Mrs. Lytles No, we are not passing the buck. We have a
certain amount of authority and the value of t h e proper ty
and the value of the house is what we decide on. If something
happens like that, that can be remedied you go to the proper
source. I think in this case the proper source is the
town board. I recommend that youhang around to 3:00 o'clock.
You can get up and speak on the floor and tell them your
complaint and it should be a matter of record. That is th e
best advice I can give you. We will take it under ccnsideration
but. Anybody on the board have any suggetion.
Mr. We have nothing in our hands that we can move on.
Mrs, Lytle: T',,.at's what I mean. It is really not
Mr. Mitchells Couldn't you,.put in a recommendatia that I
am being taxed unreasonable for this eonditi on. This is not
fain
Mrs. Lytle: You are not being taxed unreasonable. You have
a condition that they can take car e of. Yes , Mr, Fox
Mr. Fox: Mr. Dean has always attended the twn board meetings
also.
Mrs . Lytle: That is the best advice we can give you.
Mr. Mitchell: Well, you are not really doi ng anything for me
really.
-37
Mrs, Lytle: Well, we are giving you good advice, wh-_ther
you believe it or not. I can tell you what the town board
meetings are for. Many things come up there. People
come with complaints and if you don't get satisfaction
they write a letter and send a copy to all the board members.
Mr. Mitchell: I am not really complaining about the taxes for
the Muse or the property.
Mrs. Lytle: See , this is where our author i ty ends because we
have only authority over the taxes. But you have a physical
problem and that physical problem is the responsibility of
the town: board.
Mr, Mitchell: How often does the town board meet?
Mrs. Lytle: It meets today, Mr. Martocchia and Mr. Dean
and the complete town board. It will be on record .
Mr. Mitchell : Do I have to go to put my name on a lift?
Mrs. Lytle: No you don't put your name on a list. You dust
attend and state your case and you can tell them that we
have advised you.
Mr. Fox: That we have recommended that you go to them.
Mr. Mitchell : If I don't get any results I will be back again
next year.
Mrs. Lytle: Ok
Mr. Fox: I hope you do, bye.
Mr. Charles Luyster representing Mrs. Emily Luyster
12 Mr. administered the oath and r.1r. Charles Luyster
answered "I do"
Mr. Luyster: I am here representing my mother, Mi-s . Emily
Luyster.
Mr. The man thinks you are talking about the land uder
the water.
Mrs. Lytle: I am. I{' he has it resurveyed, yes. But I am
talking about the present moment. If he has it resurveyed
it does not belor.:.g to him and if it should build up in the
future it does not have that land in front of you.
Mr . Luyster; It hasn't been resurveyed.
Mrs . Lytle : So you still own that land. Mr. Fox have you
any comment to make on this .
Mr. Fox: No, this is quite difficult. What he has lost
still is waterfront.
_3g_
Mrs. Lytlet The base of his rate is still waterfront
Mr. Foxs Yes
Airs. Lytlet It is only the difference in the depth, which
is not that much.
Mr. ''ox: It would have to be a great quantity of depty
ill order to affect the waterfrott.
Mr. Luyster: Excuse me, my point is not, that is obvious
that we have lost some property. The value of the� land
is actually less because of an erosion problem. It would
be very difficult, let's say, to sell that land for the
same value it could have been sold last year.
Mrs . Lytle: I speak out of personal experience. You
came along and bought that because it was waterfront.
How many years ago did you buy that.
Mr. Luyster 1952
Mrs, Lytle: You had that sinne 1952 and you weren't aware
of the loss of land all along that whole beach.
Mr. Tuyster sure
Mrs. Lytle: It was buyer beware. You bought it taking
that risk.
Mr. Luyster: Certainly
Mrs. Lytle: The land is under water and that is the
risk you took. The piece of property is waterfront .
Mr. Luyster : Because the house now is much closer to the
water
Mrs.Lytle: You may have to move that house.
Mr. Luyster: We are talking about values now, establishing
a market value for the house today it wou ld be less than
it would have been previously. I have taken all the risks
and my parents have taken all the risks of being completely
demolished. But the tax rate is gone up.
Mrs. Lytle : Because it is waterfront property. Yes, Mr. Fox
Mr. Fox: Has the buyer , since the buyer beware, done any
sustaining 1952 to the present date to protect his land.
-39-
Mr,
3g_Mr. Diyster: Yes
Pers. Lytle : When, just now?
Mr. Luyster: Six years ago
Pars. Lytle: What did you do?
Mr. Luysters Bulkhead
Mrs, Lytle: Bulkheaded it six years ago. But now, you
are doing more.
Mr. Luyster: We got something before the Federal Engineers ,
they're trying to get something approved,
Mrs. Lytle: I am fully aware of it. I was to the Kenny's
beach meeting.
Mr. Luyster-. So, apparently right now, that is just falling
stale . It is not going any where. Unfortunately.
Pers, Lytle : The board can ask questions , but I am speaking
out of personal experience. I happen to be a little bit
west of you on a larger piece of land that we have lost. I
bet we have more than an acre of land under water on which
we pay taxes unless we resurvey and give up title to that.
Then somebody can come along and put up a hot dog stand in
front of you. Or the government can come and take it over,
but you still have waterfront property. Your rate is the
same. We moved the cottage twice. I can show you the concrete
foundations out in the water. This is the risk of buying
on the waterfront. Your piece of land to someone who wants
waterfront property is still traluable. To the person who
wants waterfront who may not be aware of it.
Mr. Luystc-,,: But in )-,4er for someone to buy that and not have
themselves a risk the �, -11ould have to move the house.
They might have to go to further development to establish a
drawing field. In effect, there is no way the house
would be worth as much it would be if it didn't need those
things.
Pers. Lytle: Didn't I say waterfront . It makes it valuable
Pyr. Luyster: I know that, But th e Fact is it is actually
less today than it was last year. The market value is less .
Mrs . Lytle : Anybody on the board . I seem to be doing all
the talking
Pyr. Luyster: I am not trying to argue wit h you .
Mrs. Lytle: No, I am trying to explain to you This happens
to be a thing that I have personal experience .
-4o-
Now, you know where the boy;s camp is . You go a little west
west of Bittner, We are east of the breakwater. We
have done for many years, we shoot anybody who goes up and
down the sand banks, even a dog . We put stairs in. Anybody
that will bring us brush of any manner or form we put down.
Mr. T.uyster I didn't know exactly. You are getting awfully
close also .
Mrs. Lytle : Getting close. We have been close. We moved
the house twice I said I would show you t he concrete foundations
I mean this happens to be something I know about, unfortunately.
We have been thkough it .
Mr. Luyster: The value of your house would be less than
if it wasn't on your doorstep.
Mrs Lytle : Sure, and we have moved it. We moved it twice
Mr. Luyster: It an expense
Mrs. Lytle: Terrific
Mr. Luyster: So the market value woitld have to be less
Mrs. Lytle : No, it is still a waterfront cottage.
Mr. Luyster: In fact, it has to be worth less .
Mrs. Lytle: No, it is still just as valuable. And you will
find that if you want to rent it people will come a 1 ong
and will pay just as much because it is waterfror,4,.
Anybody have any questions . Is there anything further you want
to tell us.
Mr. I agree with you. We have marshland.
Mrs. Lytle: I feel badly a'.-.out it.
Mr. Luysters The assessed valuation., I can sit here as long as
anybody else can sit here, The assessed valuation has gone
up and its market value has gone down and it doesn' t seem
to malke any Bence. We have an assessed valuation of $6,000
on that house . It is up from $49800 a year ago.
Mrs. Lytles Was this resold in 1970.
Mr. Luyster: It was transferred to my mother , from my
father to my mother. I don't exactly know when. When
the bulkhead was put up 5 or 6 years ago, it was put rith the
purpose of trying to stop the erosion
-41 -
Mrs . Lytle: But you have a normal erosion.
Mr. Luyster: It is normal to a degree. All the shores on Long
Island are eroding.
Mrs . Lytle: If you live here long enough some winter you
will co:le in and it will be all built up again.
Mr. Luyster: The bulkhead is about to be demolished by the L.I.
Sound and I don't know whether you have been in our particular
area, but the bulkhead is actually build. too dose to the
water. At this point the high water mark is beyond the
bulkhead. It is not designed for that type of use. One good
winter storm and it is all over.
Mrs. Lytle: Some years ago the county got conerned abott
the land and they wanted to put * in and after a great
many debates in our living room floor from all different
branches of the county we and a few others , gave pieces of
our beach front to let the county put groins? in. The m^re
they thought it over and the more authorities the y had
or this question., it wa- decider t'.zat you cannot control
the sound. The only thir-7 t'zat did oontrol it was the
breakwater. But beyond that there is nothing you can do to
control it. T read that book about fish, fish L.T. Sound
arld that they predict that we will be. . . . The county
decided not to put them in, and that is their decision.
Mr, Luyster: Well,, we are willing to pay for them, the
drawings.
Mrs. Lytle : I wonder whether the county will object when
it comes right down to it because they decided not because
of our dollars and cents , but if they started to put a groin
at our place. If you put a groin here it cuts it out here .
We will have breakwaters from the inland to Horton's Pt.
Mr. Luyster: This is not a meeting whether we should have
groins
Mrs. Lytle : No, but this is affecting the value of the land,
Mr. Luyster; If you get them close' enough apart. This was
suggeste by the Federal Army Corp. Engineers, not by
Suffolk County. Suffolk County was not really involved.
Mrs. Lytle : Who is going to pay for it
Mr. Luygter: The individual property owners.
Mrs. Lytle : Any questions , gentlemen ;
Pyr. Fox: T recommend that we review this thing
Mrs . Lytle: Yes, we will have to .review, but I meant iff
42
there anything else. o.k. We meet again in. . No decisions
today, we make no decisions today. You will be notified by
mail.
#13 Ida Hutton Mr. Luyster
Mrs . Lytle: Would this be the same thing or a different
location.
Mr. Luyster: Yes, it is just several hom es down.
I.Rrs. I think we need a card for Ida M. Hutton
Mr. Fox: What capacity is he represen-'Vi:ag Ida Hutton
P:rs. Lytle: That is a good questian. What is the relationship
Mr. Luyster: There is a family relationship
Mrs. Lytle: What is it. Why are you representing here.
Mr. Luyster: She asked me to. She is unable to appear
herself. She is incapable. She is my aunt's mother, whatever
that relationship is to me.
Mrs. Lytle: Let's consider it as a, distant relative.
Mr. Luysters Do I have to be sworn in again for this one?
Mrs. Lytle: No.
Mr. Luyster: You are not agreeing wit�Lr:e and I can't understand
why. What you are not agreeing with is that you say
waterfront is waterfront, and it is worth the same whether
it has lost 50 ft. This is an established parcel of land
with a building and walkways and bulkhead. In its present
cadition it is worth a good deal of money. Whatever the
market value is. If the builing was destroyed or the bulkhead
was destroyed for some reason the ara was eroded, they would
be worth less. You will have to agree with that.
Mrs. Lytle: The building
Mrs. Luysters No the parcel, lock, stock and barrel.
Mrs. Lytle: If it was within the depthof the building
T'r. Luyster: Here is an established hous eq bulkhm t, and
deck , extensive bulkhead, patio deck. It is all there
Built on the sand. If it is partially destroyed or completely
destroyed it is worth less than if it was in tact.
K `YX X YXXXXX
-43-
Mrs . Lytles Have you priced waterfront property
Mr. Luyster: Casually, yes. I am not looking to sell
or buy waterfront property.
r�rs. Lytle : Yes, but for compar isor. I didn't mean
;you are buying or selling, I mean for comparison.
Mr. Luyster: Well, I just wanted you to agree with one
point I wao making. Can you agree wit h that?
Mrs. Lytle: I tell you what. If you get a reduction, I
will '. resign and be here next gear for a terrific red i.ction.
Lirrster: I think you would be entit lei? to a reduction.
T'-,:' . Lyt'e: 7 have been through it all and and I think
I understand and I have studied a bit br?�c'- up in Riverhead too
There is an old, old saying "Buyer be-,,P-ell
Mr . lytle: 0 - ?=. than':� rou for corning in.
X14 Tyr, administered the oath and Mr. A . Tillman answered
"I do"
Mrs. Lytle: Do you have any insurance on this
;;property.
Mr. Tillman: Yes I do
Mrs Lytle: Would you care to fill in the amount please.
TtIr. Tillitan: Where is that now.
Mr. Tillmani Why did yeti -rovide the State Board of equalization
with an assessment in Albany with informatio n of the
equalization right of 12.37%.
Mrs. Lytle: I don't think we did. They supplied us.
That is what the school district uses. As long as the percentage
is the same for everybody. Just like they talk about 100 1
we took 25% of the value. Everybody is the same. It doesn't
make any difference.
Mr. Tillman: Then my _taxes are
Mrs . Lytle: Would be 251 of what we fhslt the market value
of 1965- Your assessed valuation is 251 of the 1965 market value.
I know theydgAj; it all in.
TJTr. Tillman; I bo.li.eve I do, 66,850-
Mrs. Lytle : Qh, I'm sorry. You used the upper form for
inequality
-44-
You
44-You figure the market value is $66,850. o.k. It is
assessed at $8,269 and if you consider that as 251
you multiply it by 4 the market value would be only
about $34,000. And. you have it insured for $50,000.
Mr, Tillman: Right
Mrs. Lytle : An Equalization rate may , have no particular
meaning with respect to one property. As long as it is done
on the same basis straight across the board.
Mr. Tillman: O.k. You say what you feel my house is worth
What do you feel my house is. worth.
Mrs. Lytle: The assessor hat valued it at 251 of what he
thought it was worth in 1965., which they are still working on.
Mr. Tillman: Which is what
Mr. $33,00 approximately
Mrs. Lytle: I'm sorry, your assessme nt was $11,300.
Mr. Tillman: Now that I see how you are doing that I have
no option but to accept that. One thing that I do find
more or less of a problem is is more of a subjective nature
and it can't be documented, I put everything I had into this
house when I built it, a big house, 23,000 sq. ft.
Mr, Fox: 23,00 sq. ft.
Mr. Tillman: yes , 23900 sq. ft. I was foolish enough
to build this house without checking in to see what the
assessment was going to be. So I came down here with
what was the final architect's plans to speak to whoever
I could come in contact with. As it turns out I spoke
to Mr. Kelsey. I showed Mr. Kelsey the plan s. He sat
there multiplied out the square footage, the whole bit.
We were informed that our yearly taxes, not our assessment ,
would be $1,170 for a year.
Mrs. Lytle : What do you mean $1, 170
Mr. Tillman: I would pay $1 ,170
T.Trs. Lytle: How could he tell you what the taxes were going to
be because we don't know.
T,Irs. Yes we do, using the current tax rate
Mrs. Lytle : o.k. At that year.
Mr. Tillman: $1 ,170. That is what I was told. Now, he
said it would go up a bit because of the estimated tax
increase.but obviously the man was way out of line, I don't
know if the problem is the man can't multiply
-45-
There is some basic problem. Well, an ay, I went and built
this house assuming my taxes would be $1,170 and then I
get hit with this tax bill of $29000.
Mrs. Lytle: How long ago was it when he gave you that figure .
Mr. Tillman: }his was in the _fall of 1975•
T.?r. Kelsey: It was two years ago, when he was starting to bui14.
Tars. Lytle : These are concerns you have to look into. Any-
body d;_s^.,gree with me .
11r. Tillman: Wait a minute. If i want to get certain Lnfor-
rlatitbn I '--M�-,;,r there are -certaix newspapers of public record.
One of them b'D ing the Ronkonkoma Times and the Smithtown
Mrs. Lytle: Well., Ronkonkoma is not Southold Town, though.
I don't know how muc'-i information they would have.
Mr. Tillman: What I don't see. There must be some sort of a
guide somewhere or some sort of. . .
Mrs. Lytle : Eash town has its own rules and regulations within
state regulation.
Mr. Tillman: What I don't see is how a man looks at a house,
in this case, fide she is worth $66,850. Says aha, that was
worth 459200.
Mrs , Lytle : They go to school for that, they are trained for
it.
Mr. Tillman.: Can I see the information
Mrs. Lytle : We have given you the general informaton. Where
is the card.
Mr. Tillman: Well, that is it. We are talking generalizations .
I want specifics.
Mrs. Lytle : They figure you have a poured concrete founda-
tion which is $north a certain amount, you have a full basement,
you have aluminum siding. You have a fireplace, you have hot
water heat. Yojx have oal� floors and ruge:. They have the
size of your extensions, your porch your buildings, your
garage and the fact the upstairs is unfinished and there
are standard rates for all these different things that
apply to you and everybody else in the town which is their
guide.
Mr. Tillman: Well, where are these rates. This is what I
am saying.
-46-
Mr,
4b-Mr. Might I say that the assessors are very helpful.
Did you come to the off ice?
Mrs . Lytle: Did you come before to the office?
Mr. We have the assessors over here an d with the
chairlady's approval he might be able to answer some of those
questions, better than we can
Mr. Fox: You have a partial rate of $4 for the upstairs
unfinished. If and when you finish the upstairs the rate
willbe increased. We arrive at that rate of $4 because a
full cellar, fireplace, b,,tseboard heat, so forth, and normally
a one-story house with all that would be on $3. 50
a sq. ft. That is 25% of $14 which is the building cost
of a one-story house. But because you have 2 a story but
half of—that is unfinished, 50 cents was added to .that to
make it $4. When you finish the upstairs 50 cents more will
be added to make it P-50- It Rill be a one and one-half story
with a finished upstairs . That is how we go alout it.
Two-story - full bedrooms in all four corners would be $5-5.25
Now we also go into the materials used. Brick built
would be 69000 but this is in line with the materials used
and the type of Mouse. I think the fact you have 2 ,249
sq. ft. not 23,000 still makes it a big house.
Mr. Tillman: No doubt about it
Mr. Fox: That is on one floor
Mr. Tillman: But back to the more subj ective thing now.
Why, when I went to Mr. Kelsey, all I have is my word and I
have nothing against the man, he has treated me very kindly.
Why does he come up with $1,170 I go ahead and commit
myself to a house this big and can't afford.
Mr. Fox: Now, I can't answer that and I don't think Mr. Kelsey
could either.
Mrs . Lytle : Tn the first place that is not TJr. Kelsey's job.
He was giving you friendly advice .
Mr. And I might add that he could have gone
with. the tax rate at that time .
Mrs. Lytle: How long ago w^. this?
Mr. Till:-an:
Mrc® L,17`7 c", Tim years ago. Fie was 1. sing the rate of two years
ago.
TAT". 1 _llma-e, : 'No way cot?1d you jump from $1, 100 to $2, 000
in two years. That is proposterous
-g�
The point is when 71 come to town hall here and my whole
financial future is riding on the construction of this
hou �e, and it is . Then to be channeled into a situation
where I am misled. What do I do now, go out and sell my
house because this gi;.r gown here.
T4"Irs . LNrtle: Have you planned or allowed for the tax rate might
GO up.
Mr. TillmAK3 Yes , but not $2,000. I am talking about it
going up from $1 ,170 to $2,000
Mrs . Lytle: You are talking about assessed valuation.
Mr. Tillman: No, I am talking about my yearly taxes.
Mrs . That is not unusual. You are in Mattituck
Mrs. Tillmans Yes.
Mrs . King? School rate is tremendously high there.
Mr. Tillman: $800 in two years , you are kidding me.
Mrs. King: No I am not
Mr. TillmanL Based on everything you have told me and Trr. Fox
has told me you 100% correct. And I can see that I have no
case but the point is I went and built the house based
upon erroneous information and now I am getting the shaft.
Mrs. Lytle: Erroneous or not that is not Mr. Kelsey's job.
Mr. Tillmans So why did they send me to T1r. Kelsey to talk
to.
Mrs . Lytle : Who sent you.
Mr. Tillman: One of the secretaries. I can't recall the
name of the. person that sent me .
Mr. Fox: We do it as a courtesy, not official.
I always hate to do them for fear that something like this
might happen. Because I much rather do it you when the
place is built. I can't explain. The Mattituck rate,
the Cutchogue rz,.te took a big jump.
Mrs. Lytle: They put on a big school addition.
Mr. Tillmar.: I have yet to see any school district here on
Long island where it has gone up $800 in two years. That is
way out. A couple of hundred o.k. but $800.
Mr. If you want to get piece of mind, find out
-48-
from
48-from these men what the tax rate was in 1973 and
what the tax rate is today and maybe you werent misled.
Mrs. LytleA: All right, suppose you do that while you
br;ng the next man in. That wouldn't take him long would
it. Mr. Fox will give it to you.
#15 Mr. Robb administered the oath and Mr. Samuel r,?arkel answered
"I do"
Mrs . Lytle : Now, this business you are comparing to what .
Mr. Markel: Mrs . Housner's property on middle Road and
Young's Road.
Mrs. Lytle: Is there anything dlse you are comparing it
too.
Mr. Markel: No. If this doesn't do it well. . ,
Mrs. Lytlet Just go get the one card .
Mr. Markelt I searched for one that would be. .
Mrs . Lytle: That's all right I just wanted to make sure
they go get it.
tut I would say for some time you were less than they were.,,
It wasn't until 1972 you went up.
Mr. Market Maybe the building wasn't even finished in 1972 •
I am sure it wasn't. But Tryac has been the same all along.
Finished. And not used as a packing house they are a
sales room and mechanic shop.
Mrs. Lytlet I would say for a long time, Tryac was
paying more than you up until 1972.
Mr. Markel; That is be-'ore my places were converted.
Mrs. Lytle : The; were paying considerably more than you.
Mr. Markel: That is before mine were converted. We are
talking about the present now. They 1jave more land
they have more buildings on their land
Mrs. --ytle: They have 3/4 a.r+d he r.as Little r,ore tr,a
Mr. Markelt That's right. They are almost an acre more
than I am. They are on a cor ner.
Mrs . Lytle : The point is '.t*`,_up
-40,
Mr. MarkeL: The point is my building was not converted until
then. My buildings were not converted to stores and that
is why I was paying less . My building was a sprout packing
house .
Mrs. Lytle : I am .fully aware.
Mrs Markel: And a real eye sore to this town.
Mrs . Lytle : I would say that you were converted in 1971 .
Mr. Markel : or 2
Mrs. Lytle : Wels ; 1971 was when you were reassessed so
it must have been converted then . Reconverted or changec
or something then because in Feb. 1971 Itis marked you
were reassessed. And it had been marked packing house before.
So, in 1971 you were paying considerably less than.
Mr. Markel: I am not complaining about 1971 .
Mrs. Lytle: That A when it was converted.
Mr. Markel: Being converted.
Mrs. Lytle: Look, they zeroed the sale of 1970 and it
must have been ready in 1971 when they reassessed it.
Mr. Markel : Yes , but it wasn't fully completed or rented
in 1971 .
Mrs. Lytle : It isn't a case whether it was rented, it was
converted.
Mr. Markel: What were her taus in 1972, Mrs. Housner's
Mr. ' I ., . ,L1 Taxes don't appear on here just assessed
valuation.
Mrs . Lytle: We don't have taxes we have assessed valuation.
Mr. $10,300
Mr. Markel: And what was mine
Mr. : In 1972 it was $6, 800, then in was raised
in 1972 to $11 ,000.
Mr. Markel: $11 ,000 right. Now we are getting down to cases .
Mr. : Your building was increased $49200.
Mr. Markel: All I can te'' l you is the record is there.
There is an alike piece of property.
Mrs. Lytle: Your land is much less than theirs .
So, i-`' they were to bring your land up.
Mr. Markel : I am much less in _land size .
Mrs . Lytle : Yes, but
Mr. Markel : Let's face facts. I got 3/4 acre less .
PIrs . Lytle : How much. do you have less .
Mr. Markel : 3/14 of an acre and I am not on a corner,
,fir. : 4,300 against 7,500 r?o g,/3
Mir. Markel : All .right, I am still smaller property.
Mrs . Lytle: Yes , but proportionally I would say they
are paying more for the lam d.
Mr. They are paying $..5,000 in excess in land
and yours is $2,900.
Mrs . Lytle : That's what I say in proportion theirs is a little
bit more. I see what you mean though .
Pyr. Markel : But I ay that th,? building on the corner,
the Tryac building, is worth more gets more i.n money in
rental and pays less taxes than I do.
Mrs . Lytle: I can't tell you about the rentals . The rer ta.l�-.
have nothing to do with the tax.
Mr. Markel: You can't tell me that a corner location it riot
anymore valuable than a inside location.
Mrs . Lytle: I can see defina.tely the difference in the square
footage. And I would say there is a difference in the
amount of par-ing area .
P•ir. !.arl1e1: Well, they have more land than I do.
Mr. Fox: On the land , my friend , you .are getting the Lower rate
on the land. This here is o-c 'gig openn showroom and one ri_g
open garage in the bacl,. This i_r many stores , petitiof:r..
sirs. Lytle : i have been in a c^,�ple so I am ava.r^ of
'-T_oIAJ ^,r stere have ,y o,, got there .
°r. Marlrel: Four. Four sto--T ,nd a tin„- o ""'.re wl.V-^,,
empty.
i rs. Lytle: rch any questio:- . Inyboly -Ise z,,ny questions,
-they waw: uuu , ..�.�
Dir. Markel: That was ir� the little offico, he's none.
Arthur_ j_r gonL-. " '-'e 5.s still the-r, 1-7+ he �_~ Voir�g to `o
,her_ his lease is up.
Mr. Fox: Mrs. Chairman , Mr. Markel has rentals and
vacancies and so forth we should advise him that he is
entering this in the wron way. You should us capitalization
Mrs. Lytle : That would mean he would need a lawyer. I
think you know all this . You have all the details and then you
come back to the board. Youfile with us first.
Mr. Markel: We are, in any event, going to get a lawyer.
Mrs. Lytle : You are going to do that
Mr. Markel_: Absolutely.
Pairs. Lytle: Well, that is your answer. On the basis of
what your income is.
Mr. Markell On the basis of unequal assessment as far as
I am concerned.
Mrs. Lytle: No well
Mr. Fox& Your best bet is on capitalization.
Mr. Lytle: It is up to Mr. Markel which one he picks. You
are aware of the both. That is the thing.
Mr. Markel: Definately.
Mrs . Lytle : Anything else on this one now :
Mr. No.
#16 Mr. If you get your land r esurveyed you can get an
adjustment on your value. In other words , you can have
your land resurveyed and say that you lost x dollars and
hundreds of square feet or what have you, then can get an
adjustment on your propF.rty value .
Mrs. Lytle : But if it builds up, you don't own that land.
Mr. Markel: Well, it is very little to own because you
can't chase anybody off it.
Mrs. Lytle: But I mean, j1hay can come along and do anything
they want.
Mr, rla,rkel; For years they have come alonand dont anything
g
they want. We ebuld .never stop the beach buggies, he
-52-
fishermen.
52_fishermen. Owning a piece of property has never given any
privacy, especially where I live so close to the private
beach that many days in the past 20 years I could not go
down and fish or swim in my own beach. So as far as
ownership goes it is onlyagood point to sell. You are
fortunate because you are so far down past the camp that
you don't get all the tress o-iEzers that we get.
Mrs . Lytle: You would be s upri$ed. We get very mad.
Mr. Markel: But not as many as we have. Believe me right
off Kenny's Beach. They put a tent on my front lawn.
M,,s. Lytle: Including the horses that come up theroad
and destroy it.
Mr. Markel: We have had horses for years. When Tom had the
camp and I use to own the piece in back of the camp he
use to run his horses all the way through it.
Mrs. Lytle: Well,
Mr. Markel: And as the assessors told me and I agree me
true they assess this in Januar y and perhaps if the y
had seen it after the storms they would would have seen it
And I agree with them. I have no fault to find with them,
They did their job at the time.
Mrs. Lytle: I think my first feelings on this was about
20 years ago with Mr. Martocchia when he was assessor.
And then with a lawyer. And, I learne d a great deal
about it, through my sorrow.
Mr. Markel: Well , I am a fighter.
Mrs. Lytle: Well, I wish you lack. If you win let me
kno w.
Mr. Markel: Well, I have some good ideas.
Mrs. Lytle: I'm sorry for you. I laugh, but I don't mean
it thit way. There are too man y of us that have been
through it.
Mr. Markel: When you are an idealist.
Mrs. Lytle: I am not an idealist at all. It was a hard
lesson to learn. We moved a cottage twice aAd that costs
money.
7r. Markel : I guess you !, now I have had a few. I hac'
one house go d.o�,!n in a storm, completely away from its
foundation. 20 ft. awa:r from its place. T 'all anoth er
o:?.e 1 nad to move back 15 feet . Noboc,,- ca"n tell me about
-53-
tragedies
53-tragedies of houses .
Mrs . Lytle : Is there anything else ycti wish to say Mr.
Markel!
Mr. n"arhol: No, that is all I have to say.
Mrs . Lytle: Thank you for coming in and we will notify
you by mail- in about two weeks' time.
#17 Mr. Robb the oath and Mr. John Lockman answered
YI Do. "
Mr. Do you still have an erosion problem .
Mr. Lockman: We still have an erosion problem because we
are concerned if the erosion continues what will happen to
the bulkhead. We could loose the bulkhead., we think.
Mrs. Lytle: Now,
P?r, Lockman: I would like to back those and if I may say
something else, when I prepar ed that I did n' t put anything
about the illegality, the 100% assess-en t lace in the
Town. of Southold and I would like that put in my formula
when it arrives. I just did it on my copy.
Mrs . Lytle : Believes the assessreat should be &educed to
$3,000. Well the first thing I will tell you is that
we do not use the 12.379 we use25J.
Mr. Lockman: May I tell you where I got the figure
from.
Mrs. Lytles The newspaper article
Mr. Lockman: No. The assessor told me, Mr. Fox.
Mrs . Lytle: Did he explain to you what we do t',ough. That
is the figure the state gives us and it is used mainly
for the school.
Mr. Lockman: Well, I put down what I thought was the
true valueand whatever figure you want to use.
Mrs . Lytle: What they assess on. They look at the property
andis worth so much and we assess at 25%. Everybody. So
it doesn't matter what the fizure is . Everybody
P=fir. Lockman.: Yes, as long as you have what .
Mr. Fox: An equalization rate.
-54-
Mrs. Lytles You are talking about 100% value now.
Mr. Lockman: Yes, I have that in there.
Mrs. Lytles How much do you know about 100% value.
Mr. Lockman: I assume that that is the full value.
Mrs. Lytle -. I1,. other words you think that is the way
it should be assessed instead of 25%-
Mr. Lockman: Yes, yes ,
Mrs . Lytle: Are you aware of the fact th at if it was
assessed at 100% we would have to have professionals do
it. Today, it would cost you $25 - $30 per assessment.
If we do it within the next 5 years it is going to cost
twice that much per assessment. Sother e is your taxes
going up. Secondly, under the law, everything has
to be the same . You know businesses are going to be the
same rate as you are. I am not arguing for or against,
I am to lling you facts. You can use your own judgment.
Mr. Lockman: May I respon d. I am familiar with all of
these points. Had I not had a raise in my assessment I
would agree with ou. But I figure 2 have a better
chance. I got a 1 ,200 raise and I can-It believe that I
can get more than that under any other system, because
that is about 15% of my property value.
Mr. One thing to add to your discussion
is that the 100% assessment cannot be put into effect
until the entire town is set on the system.
Mrs . Lytle: That is why I say it costs so muc h per person.
It is not going to be done by our own assessors . It is
going to be computerized. Then you have to have computers
to keep it up every year and you are going to pay for the
computers. I would like to read this
Mr. Lockmans I think it was well done. I didn't do it .
As a matter of fact I don't agree with them on ever thing . I
think, though., they did a very fine job.
Mrs. Lytle: Do you grant it ri ght away.
Mr. Lockdan When you a-e finished with 1t VI-1 el. I �,Tnald like
, 'l E
Pers . Lytle :, 0.k.
Mr• Lockm9h: I have in attachment rage '_n which
ive ;;o,7 r_ reasons why I feel that the house should o
ssessed at a lower rate. First, ''you -ec )re s improperly
characterize it as residential. it has no heat, it is
seasonal. It has no basement. It is on a slab.
-55-
Mrs. Lyt1es I think, correct -e, Mr. Fox is not hone ,
I think it is all residential whether it is seasonal or not .
It is just a rate based on if you haven't got a cellar .
Mr. Loci=an: In other words the rate for seasonal and residential
is the same. No that is not fair rig h t there.
Mrs. Lytle: It is what you have in the build>'_ng. If you
dont have heat in it you are not charged for it. If you
don't have a cellar you are not charged for it. Ig you
don't jave a _fireplace you are .not charged for a fireplace.
Mr. Lockmans Am I to understand that if I had a hot water heat
unit in that house that rate isthe same?
Mrs. Lytle: No, there would be ars additional rate . Turn the carr
P"r. Lockman : Just for the
Mr. You are looking at it the wrong way, the rate
is the same. The valuation is different.
Mr. Lockman: That is not fair.
Mrs. Kings You do not have a fireplace ,
Mir. Lockman: I do have a fireplace, it is non working
Mrs. Kind: One fireplace, I'm sorry, ro heat, no bl_aEment
so you are not charged.
Mr. Lockman: The man told me that I am being charged as a
residential.
Mrs. Lytle: It is a residential. It is a summer
residency.
Mr. Lockman: It is not seasonal. There is a rating of
seasonal.
Mrs . Lytle : No, not here.
Mrs. Lockman: May I show you in your own records.
Ma}^;xel, S/ Malloy, s/ Stan/R/ Sutton s/ White r2r
Mrs. Lytle: Well that may mean s but that is a summer
thing not a seasonal.
Mr. Lockman: Am I to understand that the town has the
same rate for a house with heat in it as a house without
heat in it. That's is what I want to find out.
Mr. Fox: The rate is the same but the assessed valuatian
differs accor: i -g to what is in the house.
-5 6-
Mr. Lockman: Let me see if I can make myself clear. I
thought they took the square feet ,f t he house and thea they
used a figure, a factor, I will assume for commercial property
the factor would be higher. I would assume a house with
heats a year round house, would have a higher factor than
a seasonal house
Mrs , Lytle: No, the heat is an extra item.
Mr. Lockman.: I think that is unfair.
Mrs . Lytle : Wells that is the way it has been dome for ye7rs.
The whole town is done that way so it is not unfair if every-
body is done the same way.
Mr. Lockman: Until somebody domes in and says it is unfair.
That is what a review board its for to evaluate these things.
Mr. Lytle : What I mean. is it is not unfa .r to you , particularly
because everybody else is assessed on the same basis .
T..Ir. Lockman.: If the other people are not paying taxes
because I have to carry the vTeight, people that have het.
Mrs. Lytle : Fo
I thi__k that you have this point confused.
We both own a house. You own the particular one you
are rescrring to. I own one in which I have a basemen t,
heat, light, fully electrified. They take the area of your
house and they ta1:e the area of my house and t he y
arrive at a value. , plus the things that I have ir. my
house that you haven't p;ot. And o3i that my assE:ssed v-,luation
is estarlished.
Mr. Lockman: Tut you see to me that nor s unfair. Can I
jta s t tell you why
Mrs. 117 t;le : 1`1_z
rR-r. T;oc? r _i_ If ''I�'d*tth'.ave heat and the fellow next
door has heat he has a .much more valuable piece of prorerty.
Mr. Lytle : It is assessed that way.
r.r. Lockman: Suppose I have a little shed build to put my
heating unit in because that is what a contractor told
me would be requi_-ed. The square footage of that little
shrgid would be minimal. It would be maybe 10x10. 100 sq. ft.
And all that I would pay
'yrs. Lytle : You would pay .for the fact that you had heat.
Mr. Lockman: That's what I want to I.Mow. 71Tow does that get
figured out. But there is a defir_ate rule. That is my
-57 -
point.
57 -point. I am being charged for heat.
Mrs. Lytle : No you are not.
tr. Lockman: 'hat is the impression I got.
Mrs. Lytle: I will show you your card right here .
is ee, heat - none.
Mr. Lockman: Could I tell you about this;
Mrs. Lytle: About that
Mr. Lockman: Thatnone was put on last week. I came in
and tallied to the man. He had a question mark there.
"Irs. Lytle : Yes , but you weren't charged for it. There was a
question mark there.
Mr. Lockman: In other words if there was heat there would
be a thing here and there would bF. -A figure . You see, that
is my point.
Mrs. Lytle : That says heat - none. He is not charged for
heat.
Mr. Lockman: The fellow next door he has heat, He is a
very fine man. What is the factor that he gets .
Petr. The factor that the heat gets is footage.
It is footage of his place, plus all these things that
he has that you haven't is added by the assessors to the
value of that house bafore book Value is established.
Mr. Lockman: Well, what is the percentage figure that is
supplied.
Mr. I can't supply you .
Mr. Lockman: Do you get my point. Ycu don't have to a Eee
with me. My children could go to the school for driver s
ed. They said no, only year round people. Now T think
that is unfair. I'm paying taxes here.
Mrs. Lytle : On the other hand some schools don't even
have driver's ed .
Mr. Lockman: I know. But if I am paying taxes to provide
driver's ed and they don't let me use it, I have a bad
feeling about it.
Mrs . Lytle: I don't basically understand what your gripe is,
or your complaint
Mr. Lockman: My complaint is first of all, my property is
.h;
overa.ssessed in relation to my neighbors. My property
is overassessed, the whole thing. Secondly , in that its
value isn't what you are claiming it to be. I was told
that you multiply it by 8 to get the value.
Well, the assessor that I spoke to last Wednesday, I think
it was Mr. Fox, . That is what I mean if you take 1/8
of the value you should get your assessed value.
Mrs. Lytle: We have a few to compare .
Mr. Lockman : There I have reason s why I feel that it is
Mrs. Lytle: You are assessed $3,000. You figure that
full market value is 6 5 and you are assessed $10,200.
And we figure 251 of the mar ket value. That property
would be worth on the basis 1965 $40,800.
Mr. Lockman: These are not the figures that were iven
by the assessors. The assessor told me you tale 1 8
of the value and. that should be the assessed value .
lairs . Lytl e: W— d.3_d you speak to
P. ?^. Lockman" P:qr. Fox a ^d he gave me the f gu^e o f ' "� `o o-
"rs Lytln: ,fie should have explained. i t.
r� 12 by 9 is the ,aro s 25 by
Loc -Par.: Well, whatever it is these are t', ( f _gure a
I iAra.s working with bec_o,,,u e he gave- me.
Mrs. Lytle: Actually your property -s assessed at less
t1han you value it.
Mr. Lockman: What do you say is my actual cash value?
You give me your figure and maybe I ca-. -o home.
Mrs . Lytle-, Theyvalue your land at $3 ,700. Your house
at $6,500. You add the two together and that is $50,200.
We assess at the 1O65 value at 251. You multiply that by
4 and you have $40,900.
Mr. Lockman: And that is what you say the house is worth today.
Mrs. Lytle: NO, 1965•
Mr. Lockman: Well, we are right back where we started.
Well, if you said that is what the house is worth today, I
would wdk right out of here and say the house is cFrtainly
worth more tha,.-i °40,000. I would be foolish to argue with
Mrs. Lytle : They are assessing you on the value of. 1965 not
today. Everybody in town
Mr, Lockman: Mine has to be the same as everybody elses .
-59-
Mrs. Lytle: Every is based on 1965.
Mr. Lockman: You see, my point is that it is obvious to me that
I am overvalued compared to everybody else . I have
given you a list. Exhibit A
Mrs . Lytle: How about * . You gave us t ur of those.
Mr. '''Jockman: Tyrnny has got an assessment 6f $29700
Mrs . Lytle: And you don't think their place is worth that?
between 9 and $109000.
Mr. Lockman: I do, but I think my place is worth only .a little
more than that.
Mrs. Lytle: Oh, comes on. The size of your house and the
size of your land .
Mr. Lockman: You say the s-2F.ze of my land. Admittedly the size
of my land is worth more, but not the figure you are giving me.
My land is a single building plot in a particular neighborhood.
Mrs s It is not a single building plot you have
a good size plot there.
Mr. Lockman_: But I can't put another building on it. They
won't permit me. It is zoned. for one dwelling and it is
in a particular neighborhool. And you may recall the Reader's
bigest, a couple of years ago, there are three things you
look at to evaluate p'.,�cperty. NeighborhooR, neighborhood.,
neighboorhood.
Tyr.. `Lytle : You have waterfront property; That boosts it
sky high.
Mr. Lockman s Waterfront property. That is what I want to
get to next. That waterfront property costs me a lot of
money. Did you see the report that I gave you ?
Mrs. Lytles I see it I haven't re,--,.d it.
Mr. Lockman: That's the second one I have .
Mr. Fox: 'dell, we will have to review that at another meeting.
Mrs. Lytle: You are the second or third person to have a problem.
And we are veer familiar with the waterfront . I have waterfro"
property.
M-r. Lockman: You see, the problem is in one unique area.
May I take another minute.
Tors. Lytle : By the breakwater.
-6o-
Mr. Loc'trran: The problem starts east of Goldsmith's
Inlet and it ends at thc. town beach. East of Goldsmith's.
Horton's Point protects everything west of the town bc�_ch.
So you have a very small area that is really in trouble.
Mrs. Lytle: Do you know where the Boy's camp is? Going
west from the boy's camp. There is a two-stoty two car
garage at the head of the roud Have yo>> ever noticed it
ge :ng to Pec olii-c .
Mr. Lockman.: Next th the camp th counter c^mp.
Mrs. Lytle : No, a good ways west.
Mr. Lockman: I think I know where you mead.
nrs. Lytle : We have been there for 40 years. We have moved a
house twice. I can show you the concrete . I am getting
tired of this. This is the fourth time. I can show the
concrete foundations when we get very low tides . And I
can tell you we never got ere penny reduction. We would
have to have the property resurveyed and after it is resurveyed,
then they will give us the reduction, maybe, but we
still own waterfront property, at the waterfront rate. If we
do that, and if it should ever build up and if you are there
all year round, you will see how the tides change. You
do get some lard every once and a while . You do not own
that land.
Mr. Lockman: You look at my survey and you will see what
I have lost.
Pers. Lytle: I know it, ' can tell. you that. We hav e moved
the house tivice.
Mr, Lockman_ I don't mean to be disrespectful, I can't
believe that you seriously mean that a purchaser isn't
going to be concerned with the condition that is existing
there. No purchaser knowir+.g about that condition is going
to buy it.
Mrs. Lytle: I go bac's to buyer beware. when you are
buying waterfront.
RRr. Lockman: But what buyer has the good sense to come out
and do an investigation here is going to buy property
until the thing is straightened out.
Mrs . Lytle: You can't change the tides , and no one
is going to blow the breakwater up.
P1r, . Lockman: I tell you the way I feel. Can I tell
you what I think. I think that the board ought to hold
off on that particular area and give it a couple of years
to see what stabilizes so that we can come in with either
(,ur information, what It is going to cost us.
-61
Mr. Lockman: Do you get my point. The timing is off .
Mr. You can have you acreage changed by a survey,
but the land that you take off doesn't belong to you even
if it fills in.
Mr. Locmna* Really
Mrs . Lytle s Do you ever come down in the winter
Mr. Lockman: Certainly.
Mrs . Lytle: Do you see have sometimes it fills in
Mr. Lockman: On the other hand, in the winter we lose .
It depends. Well, in my area I lose/
Mr. You put it up for sale ans you would see how
quickly people would buy it.
Mrs. Lytle: Nobody would know anymore than you knew when you
bought it.
Mr. Lockman : I 7�new quite a bit .
Mrs . Lytle : And you bought it, thea you have no complaints .
Mr. Locmna; Well, if you want to use that .argpAwnbe,,5 years
ago there was no problem.
Mrs . Lytle: Oh, yes there was . The breakwaterhas been
there for a long time.
Mr. Lockman: I wasn't aware.
Mrs. Lytle : Come down and see us , I will show you the concrete
foundatioxs .
Mr. LockmanL Can I tell you the rest of my points. They are
all in my papers . Well, as I was pointing out, the. *
my neighbors are assessed from anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 less
than me. Anal as you point out I do have more property but
illy point i7 whl_1_e the -property _� worth rinre it is not worth
as much more as you say because I only put one house there
and I'm not going to get, You have some kind of figure of $21
a foot or some such thing. I'm sure that when you go to
sell they are not going to pay .for that extra 75 feet of mine
at that rate. They are gonna say Look I car. only have once
house here and it is very mice and I am willing to pay somethin
extra, but I am not going to pay a running foot when everybody
else is on 40 ft or whatever they are. That 's one point I
want to make
-62-
Mrs. Lytle: The way you have your house la yed out. I
am sure you would not put another house on it.
Pers , s You also have more square footage than
any of the comparison hoes S.
Mr. Lockman.: I would think that I would have to pay for that.
,But I also keturn to my other argument that although I
should. pay more for that I should be payixg for the
neighborhood I 'm in and not as though I 'am over on the bay,
Mas,.,au Point or some such
Mrs. Lytle : They are not based on that.
Mr. Lockmans I purposely picked out Feldes because he has
an assessed valuation of $6, 800 aAd that is what I call
prime sound area. I dust put it in there and I put
Cupping because she has more property than I do, admitelly
a smaller house but her assessed. valuation is almost
$4,000 less .
Mrs . Lyt 1 e s Where is the house.
Mr. Lockmans Who Mrs. Cupping.
Mrs. Lytle: No, Feldes
Mr. Lockman: Feldes, you know what I call the booth area,
where there is big beautiful trees and the bi g steel
fence, the carriage houses, the estate area. That to me
is prime property.
Mrs . Lytle: They pay a good price for waterfront .
Mr. Lockman: What I am merely saying. These are my
views why I feel that I am not beigg treated agtaarel y. Now
my house, you certain%T will uxderstamd this , Mrs. Lytle;
I finally found a point that you and I can agree ex. And
that is this . My house is approximately 37 years old 37
years old in my view is not old. My house in Merrick is
37 years old and I think it is quite nice. But my house on
the sound and 37 years on the sound, my heatalator doesn't
wor k and my fireplace, and my windows , I have Axdersox
windows, and I am getting around slowly to open them, but
they don't open on the water because of that. You have a
huge house, an aspestos shingled house that in my view is
in run-down condition.
Mrs. Lytle: Because you don't keep the house up.
Mr. T,ockmax: If that is your position.
Mrs . Lytles Am I correct gentlemen?
Mr. Lockman: The fact that I am not handy and everything else .
Mrs. Lytle : Do you agree with my Bob
Mr. Lockmans I don't agree with you
Mrs. Lytle : I am talking to Bob.
Mr. Hughes : Well, without looking at the house, it all depends
on what he has done or what he hasn't done. Some people
say I do a lousy job on my house.
Mr. Lockman: Those are the hinges. Lubrication will not
do it. I have to actually replace the hinges.
Mrs. Lytle: That is the pr.i.ce ,,y r:` , o-2,%(I.
"' . Lockmans My final point is that I am next to the
public beach and to my view
Mrs. Lytle : Buyer beware
Mr. Lockmans You say buyer beware but that has to affect
value.
Mrs. Lytles It was there when you bought it. But you still
have waterfront.
Mr. Lockmans I bought it for $48,000. I Pm -not complaining
for the price I bought it for. I am complaining for your
increasing the value of the hous e . That is what I am saying.
You keep saying buyer beware. I was aware . I paid $48,000.
That is what the" house was worth. Now, you tell me that 5
years later the house is worth fabulous figures. I wish I
could get it.
Mr. R It was worth $40,800 when you bought it, according
to the assessors ,
Mr. Lockman.: Well, if that is the figure and everybody is
using that figure, but the assessor told .,a it was 1/8.
Mrs . Lytle : Is MF. Fox around.
Mr. Lockma-l.: Maybe it was this gentleman. Remember we were
talking about the figures that were used. Could we go back
a seco-gd I want on the record that the assessor had iven me
a figure of 1/8 and the board seems to think it is 1�4, now
I think a taxpayer when he comes in here should b e given the
rig ht figure to work with when he submits his papers .
Mr. Well, the 25% basis if based on. 65. Thea
you come up with a $3 rate, then 4x3 gives $12 , which
is what the house would have cost in co nstruetio n at 1965.
But, if you want to compare it.
Mrs . Lytle: No, we are not comparing it with anything else,
64-
We are talking about 65. About his base.
Mr. In other words you gentlemen using the
formula you have jug>t described came up *ith $10,200 on
Mr. Lockman's home. A 40 ,800, and by his own admission
he has a house with $65,000,
Mr. Lockman.: And by there own admission they took that
figure and multiplied it by 8. That is what he just told
you.
Mrs. Lytle: He is not explaining it the way.
Mr. Lockmant Well, in any case , don 't you agree that the
figure you are talking about is what it was worth in 65. Isn't
it worth more today. I myself,
taxing
Mrs. Lytle : We are not allUJOW you on that.
Mr. Lockman: You are using a different figure on all of my
neighbors .
Mrs . Lytle : No, no. Everybody in the town of s outhold
Mr. The only thing is a different evaluation
on a piece of property than you think it should be and
we cannot answer you yes or no until we go through your whole
file, which we do on a full day' s work.
Mr. Lockman; All right, I have told you everything now, you
have dry 5 points and I certainly think you were very generous
with your time.
Mr. Just let me point out one thing. 4f you
are assessed on a 40, 000 house today tax wise , and you
admit it is worth $65, 000 that sounds pretty fair.
Mr. Lockman: Not to me it doesn't . I talked to the
assessors they told me they take 1/9 of my neighbors.
Just think about it. Ire 1965 int .worth about.
Mrs. . Lytle : I don't "ov, whether an assessor misunderstood
you or you misunderstood.
Mr. You came up with $65, 000 on your Form. I
thought it was a very fair formula. We took this $10,200
and we Brough t it up to $41 , 000 in round figures. which
is $249000 less than what your house is worth in your
own admiss ion. -
Mr. Lockman: Well, as the assessor told. me, the y were very
polite with me, and I am very greatful for the courtesy they
showed me. It was very hard waiting outside. But when I
see how careful you are and the amount of time you spend with
people. I really feel there is a disagreement here because
you seem tc feel that it is fair and I have given you many reasons
why I feel it is unfair and ther efore, I would rather have the
%100 value.
Mr. You can feel rest assured that we have
the cards here, your neighbors cards.
Mrs. Lytle : We don't sit until next week
Mr. Lockman.: And you will also read through, as I said I
think a fair way to proceed until this problem on the sound
is stabilized, I feel that . . . One of our neighbors lost
his stoop. It fell off and floated away. Certainly,
a person like that shouldn't get an increase.
Mrs . Lytle: Well, is there anything else. Tham k you for
coming. We will give it our consideration..
#18 Mr. Robb administered the oath and Mrs . Warren answered "I do"
Mrs. Lytle: The first thing you have to do is fill out
the amount to which you want your assessment reduced.
Mrs . Warren: I don't know
Mrs . Lytle: We can't ast unless you give a fi.,uce.
Mrs. Warren: Well, I tell you, let me say first that I
am here because of hardship because my husband passed away
`n December, I'm going to cry
Mrs: Lytle: Don't Cry
Mrs , Warren: The estate is not stttled yet. He was not
a wealthy mane to begin with and I am just complaining until
the estate is settled. That's all. As I have been out there
and listening to people and looking in the books I think
we have been over assessed from the beginning.
Mrs. Lytle : Put down some figure.
Mrs . Warren: Will you tell me how you arrive at your assessment
figure.
Mrs Lytle: It is 25% of tho 1965 value of your house and
property.
Mrs. Warren: All right. My hou se was build ir+ 1964. The
buildir,; itself cost $25,009 The land was 4 something. I
will make if. $5,000. Noy' axyone, this is a very unusual
looking house and it is contempory. Anyone who looked at
it in 1964 when we built it immediately thought it was
a $50,000 house. This is what 1 think happened to our
-66—
assessment. This is the truthful figure. O.k. $30,000
I divided. Somebody had given me the figure out there .
That cam6 to $7,500. Now
Mrs. Lytle: O.k. $7,500 And that is what you feel .
Mrs . Warren: We were assessed at $8,600. All right.
r,"rs. 7ytle: And you feel tl.a.t .'colishould be redu6ed-:
Mrs. Warren.: My husband never co:(-� tested this , and had
he been alive and working with his income, I don't th ink
he would have said anything now at this little bit of a
raise .
Mrs. Lytle : I do feel sorry for you but you can't base it
or hardship or anything else. There are certain rules
and regulat-.ons we have to go by. If you figure what it
cost you in 64-65 and you want to approximate. 1/4 of
the figure is the cost.
Pairs. Warren: Is that, L:,re those the two figures that the
assessment is based on.
Mrs. Lytle : Yes. Fut an approximate figure do wry. It's
the only thing we can go byy
Airs. Warren: It should have been $7,500, not $8, 600. My
house is not up for sale. I am struggling to pay my
bills now. Well, my insurance was $37,000 including the
furniture and everythinE else . I have just come ba.k Friday
Right from taking care of two Bich parents and I am back
e.n.d forth to Brooklyn. I did not have time to go through
all the papers . In fact I had an inaccurate figure here
which I realize so I crossed it out. The Riverhead
Savings Bank has our mortgage, a nd asked us to up
the property and I don't remember what the figure is . I
didn't have time to go through all the papers .
Mrs . : Well, to the best of your knowledge, you
believe it is $379000.
Airs. Warren: No, it is more now. But I have a house
in greenport where my husband use to practice dentistry and
that rouse the insurance was raised also , so I got coafueed.
I didn't have the time. I have been sitting out there all day.
I liave a letter which I would like to read here . I have my
mortgage which I would like to show you, for the full amount
of the house, but I will take that back with me. Had I
had the time I would have a lot more information but this
is all. braid new to me. I never say a bill before in my life.
My hudband handled even°thing. It is real ly unf or tunate .
I am finding everythlMg difficult. I did not have the
time to get everything. I have gotten alot of information
from the people talking out ther e. And I know that
-67-
anyone
67-anyone who looked at my house thought it was a much more
valuable house when it was built. Nothing else has been
added because we had it built the way we wanted it. We
haven't added anything. The children are gone now, my
husband is gone now. I am there all alone . I am certainly
not going to improve it.
Nr. Houses have increased in value
Mrs . Warrens I know t1aat. The Riverhead Savings Bank
called me to incr�� �e, and. we did .Even then the insurance
agent was very puzzled. He did not know what the value
of the house so he says to me could you tell me what _t
cost to build. And I told him. And we just picked a figure
out of the air. . The same thing with the Greenport house.
Mrs. Lytle: Talking about hardship. Do you have
any rec'uctions for school tax or anything else ID[e that
. Mrs. Warren: No, I don't thir.',. so. The hardship is now until
the esta to --ettled. because there is money tied ur.
Mrs. Lyth Do you know how these ?_re ettl od. TIA 04-
words
cwords you,., may have the money when the estate is s ettl c:t.
Mhss Warr-an: I have a lawyer from out of town
Mrs. L4Ttle: Do you '.,.a�•e an administ ra'tor of +'_tee ^Mate^
7rs. �1arren: He is out of toy^rn
Mrs . Lytl es The admin .st_-ator s'zo,_C_d. ?�e able to „ay the
bills of the eatate with the permi7 s _on of the- court.
Mrs.WArren: Well, I am given a. . certain amount- of -cney.
I have a certain _,.mount of money, but I still consider
that I am having a hardship. I don 't have my husband's
income.
Mrs. Lytle: The roint is we cannot consider this.
I am ju^t ^giving you friendly ar?vi_ce on ho,,,i to get the
bills paid. As far as the assessed valuation of your
property, looking at it without giving it a great deal of stugy,
It looks as though there is no real reason why any
reduction whould be given.
Mrs. Warren: Except that it was overassessed. to begin with
if that is the way you arrived at that figure .
Mrs . Lytle: You say you were overassessed.
Mrs. Warren: Sure. It should have nev er have been. $9,000.
If you take the value of the land and the value of the house .
I mean that's the only reason
-68-
Mrs. She is claiming that it only cost her approximately
$30,000 to build the house. House and property, originally.
And she is berg as.-esT ed for $36,000.
Mrs . ",ytle : She built the house in. 63.
Mrs . Warren: e , moored in in June 13 years ago in June.
Mrs. Lytle: We don't make any decisions. Have you got the
figures . When it was assessed in 1965. it was not assessed
at the 65 rate, so there would be an increase. But apparently
it was finished by 1964. Early 65
Mrs. Warren: Was that when the picture etas taken. It looks
to me like it was taken before the house was finished.
Mrs. It looks to me like it was finished.
You wouldn't have shrubbery around. At least it looks that way.
Mrs. Warrens Well, it is in a very wooded area. When I
looked at the picture. That is tze back of the house which
faces the road and the house looks complete there. From
there. It is an unusual .looking house . That is why people
think it is worth twice as much. I mean I could see where
the assessors would have assumed. Other people assumed it
was worth more. But I have all the papers at home to prove
what it actually cost me.
Mrs. Lytle : And how much did you pay for the land?
Mrs. Warren: I think, roughly speaking about $459 00-
$49532. I have it rio-t here.
Mrs. Lytle : Is there anything else you can tell us about it?
Have you made any improvemen is since you built the house?
Mrs. Warren: No.
Irs. Lytle : Have you finished off down stairs?
Mrs. Warren: Well,we did. When we built the house we put a
wall shutting off the furnace and the pu t• That part of the
basement. And we put a ceiling in righ t away.
Mrs. Lytle: Nothing added to it at all?
Mrs . Warrens No. Because we have all our plans complete
when we built the house. We just did not make any other
improvements because we had exactly what we wanted there .
We didn't have to. L- fact as gur children Pot married,
we needed a house like that lass anal less .
Mrs. Lytle : Is there anything else you wou ld care to add to
this?
Mrs. Warren: No
•
_b9_
Mr. I suggest that we would go down. and explore
the cellar situationbecause Mrs. Warren has said that she.
Mrs, Warren: I saw somev'-.ere on a paper that the assessor
was in my area or.. Nc-v.. ', on one of the books. Noir, during
that time Iwas in Eastern Long Island Hospital and my hudband
was in. St. Charles hospital so evidently that is why I
didn't see the assessor. And now, I keep running into
Brooklyn because both my parents are very sick. I just got
back Friday night. That is why I couldn't get all the information
If there is anything that you want to know or if they call
me before they come I will try to b e there.
Mrs. Lytle: If there is anything further . We meet next week
after we go over our tapes on this and then we make our
decisi on and we will let you know by mail. It will be
a couple of weeks.
Mrs . Warren: And this is suppose to go into the effect the
following year I mean:. 1978 isn't it. I mean this raise.
And what I really want for me is to have things postponed
until the est2, ;;e is settled. After I learned about
figures, I think I have been overassessed. from the
beginning. I know I have a very beautiful home and I
know it looks like a lot more than it cost to build. I can+
see where.
Mrs. Lytle: We will take it into condiderations. You are
lucky that you have. . .
Mrs. Warren: Thank you
# 19 Mr. Robb administered the oath and Mr. Frank Meyer answered
"I dor"
Mrs. Lytle : You will have to put in the figure.
The amount you want your assessment to be reduced.
Mrs. Meyer We didn't know what to fill in. We figure
the house is valued around $23,000. Now the assessment
valuation is $7,100. How do you figure.
Mrs . Lytle: Than you think it is s;ceras s es s ed.
You built your garage in 1973-74.
F.'r. Meyer: Right .
Mrs. Lytle : Did you do any additional work to the house?
Mr. Meyer: I resided the house
Mr. : Was anybody else in the area that you know
of reassessed.
Mr. Meyer: The whole neighborhood. But that was the same
70
year we put on the garage.
Mr. Nothing was done in 77 that you know of?
Mrs. Lytle : Did you finish off your basement or arything else
like that
Mr. Meyer: It is only a little utility basement.
Pers. Lytlei I apologize. It says nor e.
Mrs. Pleyer: We were told -we-ren't turned down because of our
cre4'it . So, therefore, we took it that it was something with
the house that we were turned down for.
Mr. Meyer: The house was really busted up when we bought it.
Irs. Lytle : I know it says -partial.
Mr. Normally the rate would be 4.50 the top
figure. So, at the time we were there Mr. Kelsey was talking
to you and the upstairs was unfinished at the V.-Jin .
'Ale : The upstairs was finished when we bought it.
The house is very old.
Mr. Meyer_ : The house was built back in the 40's some time .
Mrs. Lytle: It was unfinished when you bought it.
Mr . Meyer: No, it was _finished. The upstairs was liveable
when we bought it.
Mrs. Meyer: The only thing we did to the upstairs when we
bought it was paint and wallpaper and clean it up.
Mr. It is still marked partial.
Mr. Meyer: Well ,, there is still work downstairs . :c. a.re
Mill working on. it.
Mrs . Lytle: They had a permit for a Pani ge and evidently
the garage is finished.
Mr. PrTeyer: Yes .
Mrs . Meyer: It was in terrible condition. The first floor.
I gudss 3A of the first floor. I guess it was used as a
barn area. We are now in the process of making it our
main living area. It is not done. And as T said the upstairs
has always been done. That is where we have been living for
7 years. We are making it into a kitchen, living room,
dining room.
_71
Mrs. Lytle: In other words you are putting petitions in Rnd
you are putting kitchen furnishings in.. But it is not
finished.
Mr. Meyer i No. If they keep belting me every year it won't be
finish ed .
Mrs. Meyer: I know houses in that are that are ' 3 years old
and we are paying as much taxes as they are
Mr. Meyer: From what I can see, they are taxes on a new house.
From what I know from other people for what they pay. .
Mgrs. Lytlet We un.derstan.d. this , increase. It was partial
and the garage. T would like an explanation for this. What
was the reason for this?
Mr. They had done more work and we assumed
that it was not complete, but that it was close erough to add
. another. If the house is complete thew your rate is ii4correct.
Pers. T�ytle : They are not complete. That is why we are raising
the question.
Mr. In a three year period we found that it
had $700 more worth of work done.
Mr. Roughly how much work has you done since
1974-=77•
Mr. Meyer: We put- uD sb.eetrock. No trim or nothing like
that.
Mrs . Meyer: It is certainly not liveable.
Mrs. Ilytle: Irt other words you fiure the work they have done
is worth $291000 really more than. $2,900.
TvIr. Meyer: No, no we haven't. We only have a 4'10, 000 loan.
Mr. This ma- T believe is doing the labor himself.
If. he is going to sell the house, he is not goixg to sell
it less the labor that he has put into the house.
Mrs. Lytle: No, I realize that . We are trying to .find out
exactly what has been done ad the value is if it had actually
been. done.
Mr. -Meyer: What you are trying to tel-'4t e is that I
could go out and buy a brand new house an.c I woulOn.'t be taxed
any more and I am still going to have an old house.
T. rs. Lytle : In other words , the house wor th $28,000?
Mr. Kelsey: "ou. would buy it for that
Mrs . Lyt?.e : C.k. thank ymi very much "?r . e�-
_73_
Mrs. Lytle: Anybody else an.y questians , What is the
in urance or. the dwellin- al oas.
Mr. Meyer I don't ?snow.
Ts?rs. Lytle: That 73 applicAtion for the mortgage was
before the amount of work you are doing now . '_'our
second floor was finished on purchase.
0.k, is there anything e s e,
Mr. Meyer: We resided the house.
Mrs , Lytle: Do you have any idean when that would be?
How for after you finished the garage Resided in 1R74
O .K. is there agything else you think you would like to tell us .
Mr. Meyer: Nothing that I can think of
INrs. Lytle : O.k. We will meet at some time later on. Study
it and write you a lette---.
Mrs, Meyer. Thank you
X20 Mrs . Spilva: Big house - It costs more taxes , I could beuild
a smaller one .
Firs, L1,rtle s What do you think your taxes should. be th en,
.yours assessed valuation rather.
Mrs. Sri'_.va : $11000 or $1 , 200, the told me. Teople
who said their house was 7alued at �90,000, their fee is
$`8,200. The real estate told me. The man who sold me the
land told me.
Mrs. Lytle s This figure has to be filled in, we have to come
to some figure.
Mr. Fox: Dark this dove because want to put a notation of the
building permit.
Mrs. Lytle: I realize that.
Mr, FoxButenever pay attention to this because as you see, there
is a descrepency between.. There can be a descrepency between
this and the finished figure.
Mrs. Lytle: Is the house all finished.. Are you living in it?
How Lon".
Mrs . Spilva: 2 months
Mrs. Lytles In other words, this strictly speaking should be a.
part is l
-74
This was ire 1pril, they have only been in the house two months.
Sounds pretty close to partial.
Mr. Fox: We are going to rechb.ck in 1978 for a deck. but in
April it is officially finished.
Mrs. Spilvaa I start to live in May, first of jure.
one month and one-half I am in..
Mr. You think that this is goint to le your tax
that is not your tax.
Mrs . Spilva; I know, i know. I came here aid ask
Mrs . Lytles Does anybody have any further questions. Have you
Mr, No.
Mrs. Lytle: We will study the situation and listen to the tape,
and about two weeks we will write you a letter.
Mrs. Spilva: Thank you
#21 Mrs. Lytle: Do you have it filled ire?
Mr. Stankevich: I handed. it ir, this is my copy
rIrs. Lytle : Do we have a copy
Mr. Stankevich: Yes , you have the original.
Mrs. Lytles O.k. Thark you.
Mr. Robb administered the oath and mr. Skan'wevich answered "I do"
Pers. Lytle : TT.-,re I go with my speal again. You realize that
everybody's taxes would go up. You are going to have to pay
for it terrificially. Throu'h the nose, computers , firm to
do it. Equalizing everything. You are not going to gain
a nickel .
Mr. Stankevich: Naturally as a lawyer I must alledge every -
thing. As you '-�.ow, I am an attorney in town ars'
represexting 11r, and. Mrs . Mitchell who own. Mitchell's restaurant
in. Greenport, Which I an rure all of you are familiar. It is
an institution.. And there are basically three grounds, that
we think should indicat e to you that at this time today, 1977-
7
97?_
78 the assessment is too high on this property. The first item
that should. come to your attention is that the property was
taken back on foreclosure in. 1976 at which it was bid in at
$200,000. Si::lce you assess at �5�- of full market value that
culd indicate it should be asses-led in the area of $50,000
if we were usi-Z 1976 prices, but of course, you are not.
-75-
The Town of Southold is ush- g, I believe 1956.
Mrs. Lytle: 1965
Mr. Stankevich: 1965- So that I think it woul be fair based
upon that, analysis, to say that the assessment should he
less than $509000 at this time for the entire premisis . We
had asked that the assessment be reduced from $349000 to
$420000. Secondly, you should be aware of the fact in term
of looking at the business as a whole, that last year this
business lost $4:900 and I have the tax return in front of
me. In other words, they had a very large income, gross
receipts of $350,000 but by the time you run the restaurant
the old building and the depleted conditio n and everything
else, it turned out to be a loss . The reason? being, I guess ,
over the years , and the building have run down when it was
sold. That is also why it was purchased back at for closure
right on the stoop of the town: hall for $200,000. zo, it is
loosing mor_ey. Thirdly, you should be aware of the fact
if you take any portion of the premisis and try to look at
what its rental value is you will f fu-id that it is minimmal
at that. The ford building, which is that portion of the
premises, closest to the post office, furthest toward the
town of Southold is totally unrentabl e. The people who
rented it before owned it and knocked holes in it . The
parking lot in the back has been tended to the Village of
Greenport if they pick it up amjust pay something towards
the taxes. To do something to keep the property economically
viable until the Mitchell family can take hold of it,
again and really build it up.
Mr. Fox: That was brought up a couple of weeks ago.
"r. Stan.kevichs Yes, sure. I„ doesn't even look like
somebody is too anxious to pay the taxes on it. So,
I think any way you look at it realistically A. Look at
the price it was purchased back at forclosure, and adjust
that back. to 1966 and take a. quarter of it and it would
be way below $50,000 assessment. E, The busine ss it not
making money and I don't t'i'.nk ar+y business oquld be run
any better than the way the Mitchell family run it, but
nobody can pay berg much rent. It could be capitalized,
to show the tremendouc value that you have it or your arse.-7-
rent boot-s for and thirdly, in fa t, portions of it are unrentable
right now.
M2-s. Lytle: Mr. Stankevich, are you finisher' with the reasons .
As far as t-his boars' is concerned, we cou7.rl tt in a mill;_on
year:! g give a reductiox like that. Secondly, the only
way you might get somewheres is by filing a complete ;ncome
report
Mr. Stakevich: We recogni.�-,, that .
-76-
Mrs. 'Lytle : This is fa.nts.-tic fc- Lis to red,�?ce 1.t. We
would z-.ever to
Mr. Stankevich: I 1k:new that before I came here, but I
felt you would do the courtesy, and Mr. Mitchell felt
that you would do the courtesy to pay me to at least come
down and let me explain what was go i rig on are. when
are fi�_ed it is not a personal matter just. a_ survival
of their business. They have to go throug'i t"__s rntte.
T"r. Foxs We are all in tot al agreement . When Mr.
T?itchell approached us and the first thing he said was
I can't afford to pay the taxes. I said stop right there
what you want to do is Jet a good lawyer.
Mrs. Lytle: ,'le realize that , That is what you have to do.
He also wants to improve his land, that's the first part.
Mr-. Stankevich: Thank you very much.
Mrs . Lytle : Is that all you have, just the one?
Mr. Stankevich: I have another oaic: I will brin;J over later.
It has been settled. We had it last year. We just want
it .filed
#22 Mr. Robb administered the oath and answered, "I do"
Mrs . Lytle: When did you buy the house
Mrs. x: March 1975
Mrs. 'Lytle s And you paid $37,500.
Tars. x I have the banh mortgage here if you would like to see it
Mrs. Lytle : No, t'ut's all right. What is your real reason for
asking for a reduction?
Mrs x My real reason. I suppose I have several reasons.
One of the things that seems very unusual .for taxes to go
from $375 to $893. It would be an increase of $517.
is th=.s in one near
V
Mrs. x Yes.
Tars. Lytle : What was your tax before?
Mrs , x $375.1, 5
T1r. ,'that year was that?
I.Irs. x., This is the only thine we have
77
Pers . That house was assessed in 1962.
T.4rs. Lytle : That is what I said
Mrs. x Let me :_gee if I have the right bill here.
Mrs . You bought the house in 75 rig h t?
Mrs . x -res
Mrs. It has not been reassessed since you 'co.ught it .
Nrs. x; T don't know. I guess when we bought '_t might have been,
no?
Mrs . Lytle : Not accord ing to these cards it wasn't assessed.
62 was the last assessment.
Mrs, x Well, most of the houses in that area , see my
father-in-law livds there, they run about the same . To
us it was ars average tax bill. It is more than the res
actually.
Mrs. This is the old tax till. This is back
to
Mrs. ,hytle: This is before the house was modernized. This
bill is before you did any work on it .
Mrs. x We just completed the work
TTrs . Lytle: Plus this was on the basis of what the taxes had
been back in 1962. So, therefore, i'-, was reassessed aB.
well, or the basis of 1965, 11 :.is the improv eme nts you
nade to the house . That is what brough t it up so high .
The place had not been reassessed for 16 years.
Mrs . x When an individual_ purchases a house he
looks at the taxes .
Mrs . Lytle: You looked at the taxer but did you ask when it
had beer,. last r(?aScn rnr1. ri:tO ',,rhe7,-! It J!t � �lr� Y+� t�1a ' ?�
1962 and you bouZht it i.^ 75 - If you stoy ped to thin!
somewhere al_on- -the line that it was going to be reassessed.
A 13 year period
Mrs x We assumed that it would be reassessed because we had
some work done. We ever:. spoke to George Ahlers. He did the
work and we as':ed h _r what he thought.
Pers. Lytle: You were reassessed for t'.e work that was done
anld you would also be reassessed for the increased value of the
house.. iron: 62 to 77. Although we do not use the 77 value.
We use a 1965 value.
Tars. x Blit it is still over $500. That is an awful lot of
more y.
Par. Did you put a basement underneath it?
Pers , x no
Mrs . Lytle: You paid $37,000 for the house
Pars. x Yes, $37,500,
Mrs. Lytle: You took $37,500 and thee+ added the garage
P'rs. x Yea.
Par. Did you reshingle
Pers . Lytle: Anybody have any further questions .
Mr. Nothing has been done on the inside
Mrs,x Not a thing
Par, 5 ft o-- the garage
Pers. x Does it matter, we put windows. We fixed the
windows? But the inside of the house, nothing has been done .
Tverything that is there is there. As a matter of fact
it is not a year round house. The insid e is only masonite
walls. It has head adequate enough for a cold spring day.
No instillation.
Mrs. -.ytle: Thank you very much for coming in. We will
meet within a week or so and go over it.
Is that it ,',Ir. Fox?
#23 Tar. R',obb administered the oath amd Mr. Bitses answered I do.
Tars. Lytle: Before we do anything at f.11 it is necessary
that we require the figure to which you wish this assessment
reduced.
Mr, Bitses I have numerous notes here. The figure 389300
Bars. Lytle : Now, the other thing is , are these 2. separate
tax bills? W-� must have separate forms Which is this?
71r. Bitses: That is No. 9, the house. I believe I have
descriptions of both lots 8 and 9
Mrs. Lytle: O.k. We will consider this and when they
79
bring in the other form you will have to fill them both
out.
Dirs . Ly-'.le: This is the tax no. 1000-54-3-6 Would
This is the one with the house on. it. O.k. PYould you
care to tell us the story.
Iiir. . Bitses: I realize You have certain guidelines when you
value these various parcels and so on. I assume that
these guidelines were effective when you valued the
other houses in the same tract. The first thing I did
of course, was check the tax records . At. Lot No. 3 there
is a family named Schonebarr. Their dwelling is '_ar ger
.4--q size than this swelling.
Mrs. Lytl^ : "ait a second. Are there any other n.am s that
you •,,rant to compare. We will pull the cards .
Mr. Bitses: Yes the neighbor of Scho:ftebarr. It is an
Italian. name . It will come to me in .a mi_nia.te . We'll, anyway
I intend to compare thi- to the valuatio::� on the Schoreb-_-N
ous e.
Mrs. Lytle: g'dell, we will have to have the card. ",.7ill -ou
•- � V eC-.rd
1, r. Bits es i I think it is lot No. 3 or 4. Three and 4. Ply
'louse, tLis house i-^ particular, is a fairly small dwelling
with a fairly large ggarage , which is possibly where the over-
evaluatior has come in.. The house is smaller in square footage
than the Schonebarr house. Except that it has this very
large garage attached to it. So, it ^^^ms like a big house
but inside it is not. The Schonebarr house is valued at $5, 200
Mrs. Lytle : How many feet do you t hin.1- your house is.
V'r. Bits es : Around 1890, 21000.
Mfrs. Lytle: Your house
Mr. Bitses : It is about 26 x 35,34• The house is 30x38.
The breeseway is 20x16. How does this compare to the Schonebarr
house wlfich is larger than 30x38.
Mrs. Lytle : I have to wait for the card.
T,lr. Eitses Plarchor,?. Ther have a gigantic house. They
`.ave a swiAmi g pool in the back and so on.. They really
are not ccrnparable. Practically a two-story house with a
little wing that connects tl e house to the garage.
r,lrs. Lytle: You have two fireplaces, which cost more.
XronBitses : Would you like to go _Mto the question of the lot
90
frontage.
Mrs. Lytle: What is the question on t he lot frontage
Mr. Bitsesz 'ell, generally speaking I assume you use the
$8 standard. $8 a front foot for lots. The front footage
on these two lots is rather narrow it is 120 and 1k'0 I
believe round 260
Mrs. Lytle : What- did you say the front was
Mr. Bitses : Around 120 and 140, 2 separate lots.
Mrs. Lytle: Two separate lots were or. the one bill
T
P7r. Bitses: The house is on one '
T-1rs. Lytle: They are two separate bills. Let's just tall_
about the one .
Mrs. Could you tell me how much the insurance Is.
Mr. Bitses: I do not know' . It's 120 by 300. It is a narrottr
lot.
P>4rs. Lytle : You have no idea about the insura c e .
r" s 4b,000 square feet. One lot was 119 I believe .
The other was 140
Mrs. Lytle: Let's stay with just the one.
Mr. Let's assume Lot 8 is 133 feet and. Lot 9 is
119.
P"rs. Lytl e: It gives .92 acres .
Mr. - What is the depth on. that
Mr. Bitses : It varies from 290 to 330.
Mr. I will bring the cour,.ty map
14r. 7itses : The frontage is narrow. I assume you use
the ggeneral standard by the assessment board and put
ar_ $8 per foot frontage valuation. . The total,,%
valuation on both of these lots should not exceed o x 260.
In other words $2, 000 tota'_ v .11-,ation.
P"rs, Lytle: For a lot
771r, Bitses : For both lots One thousand for each
Mrs . Lytle : Vet's stick to one lot
-81
PY'_irs. Lytle : Now we have the lot that has the house on.
P+fir. Bitses : 133 front .
R1rs. I,tyle : I have that And you say it should be
~ � 1064 assessmeit. $1,100 Zy reason of its
narrow frontage at $^ a fro- t root, The other lot, No. o
is even narrower.
Ixs, Lytle: Ile can only take one lot at a time . Tor t'ie
r^orient forzet that you own the other lot.
".1r. Do you know you have 40 ft. more then thV have.
30x38 . There's is 25x4.11 . 1 ,100 base. At 5 or 5.50, what
are you using, This is 30x38.
I1r. Bitses s Why am bei^g charged 5.2 K
r"rs . L;rtle : Because you have an upper story.
11r. Bitses : So does Schonebarr, my dear. That i� the
point. I than.'c you for bringing out the point . Partially
completed huh, Upstairs unfinished. Let's assume it is
Purposes or hearing.-.
hearg.
Mr, 'Je can't
M.r. .Bitses s There attic is not finished. Not the second
floor. The second. floor has the walls and everything else.
Mrs. Lytle : Petitions When did you see this?
PY1r. Bitses : Approximately 2 or 3 months ago.
Mrs, Lytle ; Well, that is the reason for the difference.
Mr. Bitses : I beg to differ . I don't think there should be a
difference.
Mr. Yoycan't compare a partially completed Mouse
to a completed house.
Mr. Bitses : mine fits into the category of a partially
completed house because it doesn't have a c.o.
Mrs. Lytle: And you are liv i ng in it .
Mir. Dits es s It looks that way. It is a vo ilati on.. But,
nevertheless , it is not completed. Furthermore the Schonebarr
house has a very large attic which my house does not have.
The Schonebarr house, in all respects is a much larger house.
Ere s As to the question if the upstairs is completedor not, that
is a fact that can be determined by inspection
Mr. Bitses : Apparently it was inspected because the
assessors have marked it partially completed.
Mrs. Lytle : Yours was April 26 and theirs was April 28. 2
Days apart.
Mr. Pitses : I donot think that eras an interna.?. inspection of
oyr house but that is neither here Mor there. I questioned
whether there was an internal inspection of the Schonebarr house.
The usual procedure is to drive up, look at the house , write
a few notes and drive away. I happe-, to be the builder of this
house also , which is why I have turned to that curious angle.
If any of you decide to build a house, turn it to face the
south. Come 1.1arch 21 shade decends on the house. September
21 the whole house lights up.
Mrs. Lytle : 0-i Schonebarr's by visual inspection or the up
side the str ds are still showing upstairs .
M11. Bitses : By your calculation^., therefore, they are usinE
a factor of $4.50 or, the Schonebarr house. What factor
are you a inC on thil Lot 8 hou^e. '
Mr. $5.25 Another fact, t'ie house will �-o
ur when it is finished .
Mr. 40 sa. ft oftwo-story house at $5.25 cones out to
$5,9Q5• We have a wing t.zat is one-story high which is
20x16 that adds a_-:other approximate $950. The garage is
wvmther 750 sq. ft. , which adds another $750. And the
lots cn; ^ �p to 1065. $874o.
Mr. Bitses: I wotld settle "or M750, $8,749 for lot
8 and house .
Mrs. Lytle : How much did you figure for the lot
P::r. Bitses : What -ic happening is that we are coming to an agree-
ment that the assessment is accurate by. Ir other words
you have accurately assessed this house. My point was that
the Schonebarr house was un.derassessed in comparison. If the
Schonebarr house has bare studs, but I didn't see bare studs .
If it has bare studs t-,er. you are quite right. If you will
give me the liberty of examinir the Scho-c.ebarr hou se.
Mrs. Lytle: They are your neighbors. If the y say so.
Mr. Bitses: 9377 house ar,d. lot.
Mrs. Lytle: Yours is right
Mx# Bitses : If the Schonebarr house is bomplete then it is
being assessed at a lower rate. .
sirs. Lytle: See, it says partial
_g3
hlr. What do we do about the question whether t'zeir
house is complete or not , as to our assessment.
Mrs. Lytle: You are not based or whether or not your neighbors
house is complete or not complete. And because art error
was made or their house, it wouldn't give you one cent off.
Mr. Bitses : Yes, it would have the effect of .raising their
assessment, wouldn't it, which I would not necessarily like
to see.
Mrs. Lytle: On the other hand we sit on only legal complaints.
They have made .io legal complaint.
Mr. Bitses : I withdraw ray complaint.
#24 Mr. Bitses : Again the premises is that I am beim; taxed
different than my neighbors in the same development. T poir)t
to the Ma.ntrione house. It is a larger rouse , and has
a swimming pool and has a two car garage a-.-'d is taxed at a
lower rate than mine.
Mr. Lytle : Are you going back to your house. We cannot
do this . As a matter of fact, we can't cor_siderthe other
lot until you fill gut that form.
Pair. Bitses : Lot No.9 - The frontage is 119 ft. At $R
a foot.
Mrs. Lytle : 'Ve have rules , you must fill the for.n.
We are talking about vacant lots . They are both vacant
lots .
Prr. Bitses : This has to be incorrect. It has to be Lots
E and 7. We are taldrg about lot 7. This hai- a 133
frontage . It should be roughly $1, 100.
Mrs. Lytle : It was never assessed at that figure .
Mr. 771itses : That is what I am complaining.
Mr. X As to lot number nine now the vacant lot. I claim that the
assesment should be no more than ten hundred and seventy two
dollars or at the outside eleven hundred dollars . Has 134 foot
frontage which I value at 8 dollars a front foot. It' s a
narrow deep lot.
Mrs Lytle OK now weve listened to you.Will you listen to Mr.
Moisa. Your explanation you were just giving.
Mr. Moisa All subdivisions with builder acres which is 40 ,000
square feet are all assesed as far as vacant lots are concerned
at fourteen hundred dollars .All improved lots ,which means they
have a dwelling built on them is sixteen hundred dollars . And
you' ll find that so in district 5 . Every subdivision has been
filed with one acre plots .
Mr. X I'm asking for a reduction on this house and the two
lots of $1,000 . You assesed the house and two lots at
10, 700 .
Mrs . Lytle Well I tell you we can' t consider a house and two
lots . We can consider a house and a lot .
Mr. X You assesed the house at $9 ,300 .
Mrs , Lytle Right.
Mr. X My claim is that the assesment should be $8 ,645 . I did not
realise that it just included one lot. I thought it was
both lots . $8 ,645 assesment whereas you figure $9 ,300 .
So we differ as to lot number 8 with the house. As to lot
number 9 which is the vacant lot you asses it at $1,400.
On the basis of its narrow frontage I asses it at $1,072 . Now
there are no other lots in this developement that have as
narrow a frontage as lot number 8 or lot number 9 . Lot number
9 is about as narrow as you get . Lot number 8 is the narrowest
in the developement. Now that should be worth something.
Mr. Moisa Not according to this , lot number 6 is . . . . .
Mr. X Were talking about 6 and 7 here. Six is the narrowest.
That' s really lot number 8 This numbering is different because
they . . . . . . . . . Six happens to be, with the house on it, happens
to be the narrowest lot in the developement. That has the
narrowest road frontage of any lot in the entire developement .
Mr. Moisa Youve got 155 feet , true width in the back there.
Mr. X Which is in the deep woods . But we have 119 feet in
the front which is the narrowest frontage in the entire
developement.
Mr. Moisa. . You have 40,000 square feet . . . . .which you can
build. . . . . . . . . .
Mr. X But you can' t because this has a lesser frontage than
the other lots .
Mr. Moisa Its that way until you use it.
Mr. X Well thats where we disagree and well have to go to court
to decide a. . . . . . . . . . .
Mr. Moisa I can' t go to court Ive got arthritis .
Mr. X Well I can. It' s my business . So the figures are in my
complaint.
Mrs Lytle Now where do we stand on those two .
Mr X You figure on letting them raise 9,300 total.
Madam X That was approved OK
Mr X No. No. That I assumed involved both lots. Lets get
this straight for the record. I figured that the 9 ,300 figure
was for both lots . Thats why I came back here.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . Is the second form motorized by any chance.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . No
Mr. Moisa: You wart this rcduced to $9645.
Mrs . Lytle: Thats No. 23 46-25. P=Tr. Bitses ; if you want its to seriously
consider this house and lot you have to give us some more information.
Mr. Bitses : What i-mformatiox do you seek? For the .record, whet',,.er
there is a mortgage or not on that house is immaterial. .
Mrs. Lytle.: We don't :are hbout the mortgage. It gives us a wort 'ng
po'.r+t for t._r, va''ti^.
T.?r. Bitses : The point being, using standard fig ures , used by
of assessors up and dow-A this island, and using your figure of $5.25
for the two story portion of the house, and us,.rg your figure of `j?
for the o--oic stor1r portion of the house and usixg $8 a foot frontage
fo,, th_e lots . Orae of the two lots is the narrowest frontage log
iG t,.o ('cv elopments When you work out the arithmetic of it, it
comes out to my,figures .
T'r
Lytle : I am trying to explain to yo�.i that i ,t is r-ot ess ed. that
way. All those lots along there are not assessed by the basis of your
figuring. They are assessed at $1 ,400.
Pir. Bitses : But the figures I am using arc town wide figures. I just
didzi't make them up. I r;ot them from various assessors.
T^r. The frontage was different on two pieces of property
rut the assessment stood up because the depth on one piece of property
was 50 ft more t:k r.: ta:.c first piece of property.
Tr. Bitses : Ir_ any ovent, I ,-,m sure this will be one of the issues.
--9 6-
Mr. Bitses s I would appreciate it if you would notarize my signature pleas
So, I have an official objection for lot No. 9.
#25 Mr. Robb administered the oath and Mr. Luhrs answered "I do"
Mrs. Lytle : Now, what is your story.
Mr. Luhrs. My grievance is very short and sweet. You see, the
assessed valuation.. I just want to show you what my grievance is.
Years ago we paid $100, them we paid $210, then we paid $305.
Since then it went up to $992. That is a 300% increase . From $305
to $
Mrs. Lytles Do you attend school board meetings, school hearings.
Well, that is where the big cost of your taxes.
Mr. Luhrst No, I am retired. I understand. Mly son is a teacher.
He gets too much money. They should cut it. Ty saying is this .
$305 tax I pay. Then it goes up to $956.81 . That is triple .
Mrs. Lytle: You are not complaining about the value of your property
You are complaining about the tax. We have absolutely nothing to do
with the tax. We don't establish that. It is what the town has,
':.he board has to pay for everything. And what your school tax is .
Mr. I would like to point out to you that on a 1975 tax bill
you paid $184 school taxes . Last year you paid $570 in school taxes.
The town didn't get a nickel out of it.
Mrs. Lytle : That's why you should go to school board meetings. '; e
can't do anything.
Mr. T�uhrs: I understn.ad. I was in business for 50 years . I come
down here and from $305 it goes to $982. That is a 300% increase .
'?rs . Lytle : 99% increase is in the school.
Mr. Right here your school tax is 60;5 of your tax bill.
nor• Luhrs: Cut the evaluat.I.on down to 4, 600 and I wouldn't have to pay
s o mu ch.
rrs . Lytle : I'm sorry but you can't get anywhere complaining about
it to us. We can't do anything about it. Go to the school board
me et legs .
i:qr. Luhrst Ycu tale off X3,000 this year and you become .my best friend
1�rs. Lytle: If I do it r"or yn? , will you do it for me.
Do you take advantage of your senoir citi--ens reduct-or.
Thr. Luhrs : I have a large income .
llrs. Lytle: I'm sorry.
#26 Mr. Robb administered the ov.ti',.
tt T ra .,tt
Mrs . Lytle . Why do you feel it should be reduced.
Mr. Cartselos : Well , why was my valuation raised for one thug.
Mrs. Lytle : Was this one partial
Mr. Fox : Partial in 76
Mr- . C?LrLs- elos What is partial.
Mrs. Lytle: Your house was completed.
Mr. Cartselos :We moved in. August 25
Mrs . LytleA: Everything was completed when you moved in.. Eve-ythixrg doge .
Mr. Cartselos : Yes
Mrs . Lytle: Not the last time, the time before was in April, which
was prior to your moving in and finishing the house . 3-.d that was
when you got an assessment of $58, 00. That was before it was finished.
That was partial . April 1975•
Mr. Cartselos: The house was completed ac the assessors came aroiLri.70
I go carpenter, or the builder. Tho hou se was completed . ile bought the
house. We did. not build the house.
X.'rs. Cartselos : It had to be completed before we move in.
Mrs . You didn't have a full assessment on that house
when he sold it to you then.
Mrs. Cartselos: How come they did not raise the taxes in the year after.
They decided to raise in in two years.
Mrs . Lytle: IA april of 1R75 which was prior to the finishing of
thb house.
Mr. Hughes s Whex did you move in folks .
Mr. Cartselos : August, 1975
Mr. Hughes: The house was not finished when they assessed it .
Mrs . Lytle: When did you buy the house
Mrs . Cartselos : August.
-88-
!'rs . Lytle : You saw the tax bill for it, an incomplete house.
And the house was completed later.
Mr. Cartselos : I feel that people are sucked into buying homes
in this area. I really believe that. For example, I find out
how much the taxes are and I'm told $800- $8r8. We move in.
Mr. Hughes : Who *(hld you how much your taxes were?
Mr. Cartselos : The tax bill. Once you move in our are sucked in.
Mrs . Cartselos: And I don't think it is fair. They put all that
information on the white card. They never s eiftd us anytliAg to
let us know what is going on. They a'.1 lied.
Mr. Hughes: This: bill was based on an unfinished. house.
Mr. Cartselos s I should havebrought the builder down here . He will
swear on. it. That the building was completed when th e assessor
came around.
Mr. Hughes : All I am trying to do is explain the merits of the case .
The thing was assessed on April 10, 1975 and that is the base on which
it was established, partially complete.
Mrs . Cartselos: Why d.id they not say, this way we know from year to year.
When I came down to this office and I was complaining about the bill,
they put all this information down. They didn't do anyth ing about.
They say why didn't you read your bill.
Mr. Cartselos: Where is it inx the bill? I had a good. chat with him.
He swore up and down.
Mr. Hu-hese The bill he showed you was a bill on a partially uncompleted
house .
Mr. Cartselos : I would have never bought that house if I had k1own. T
77as going to get a tax increase of 1/3 in one year. There is
no -guarantee that I won't get another 1/3 next year.
Mrs. Hove are 'We going to get it. We AON 't c07_1eet reit f-0111 noplace .
Mrs. He had bees notified July 1 , and he never told you.
He showed you his tax bill not yours.
Mrs . Lytle : Exacti-y what date did you close and take title to the "ouse/
Mrs. Cartselos : Augu-t . I don't know the exact date.
Mrs. Lytle: The notices go out in July. You took title in. August.
You tool title I would say , August 6 - 10
Mrs . Cartselos: When we bought the house the '-ill was less than. $958.
-Ro
Mrs . After June 1 , ,ire het the deed in and we send the bill
directly to the person..., the owne r, so that it doesn't go
through the whole route. Therefore , they took title in august.
Their bill went directly to them from the 1-)0.1_rler .
No, it came from this office because you rere the owner in August.
Mr. PJavle? got the notice of the increase on July 1 .
Mr. Cartselos : Shouldn't it come with th e bill
Mrs . Lytle: No. You ..issed that part correctly.
Mr. Cartselos : He was Willing to come down here and he would have
swore that when the tax assessorcame the house was completed.
Mrs. Lytle : He should have come doitm . You paid t1-;e first part
of your tax bill. Why didn't you raise the question immediately
when you builder when you first got the tax bill.
Mr. Cartselos: T did
Mrs .Lytle : What did he tell you . Whydidn't you bring him tothe
tax office
Mr. Cartselos ; This is the day he should have come down .
Mrs. Lytle: No, you could have come the minute you got this bill .
Today is when the assessors will not give you the satisfaction you want.
You should have made an issue with him.
Mr. Cartselos: He was willing to swear the house was completed .
100%
Mrs. Cartselos : When he showed it to us it was less than $85g When
we receive it it was about $1, 200- $1 , 300.
Mr. Hughes : The bill that he showed you had a lower tax rate, in
the previous year. The tax rate usually go up when the school taxes
go up.
!.Irs . Cartselos : Vah are not talking about tax rate We are talking
about assessment.
Mr. Hughes : He didn't show you this year's bill. He showed you
last ye ars .
Mrs , Cartselos: This is going to to someplace else. They
don't ask us if we can pay this. The just raise it. As soon as we
come do«n here they Ave all kinds of answers .
Mrs. Lytle: Can I ask how much you paid for the house
Mr Cartselos : $56, 000. I think it is on the .form.
Mrs. Lytle : You realize you pay $5(, 000 for the house. Our assessrnert
90
rate is 25% of the value of the house and property as of 1965
Four times comes to far less than what you paid for the house.
M.r Cartselos: Right here you tax rater are build on helter scelt,!�r
Mrs. Lytle: H~,..ve you airy idea how many people -"here are in the town
of Southold. And
Mrs. 159833
Mr, Cartselos : I don't believe the town has one formula for taxes
Pers . Lytle: I an sorry. We cou'_a xot work here and vork half
way intelligently if there wasn't a .set formula to work with. I
am very s orgy you feel that way but there isri It anything we cap do a'--�7t
it. I think if you have any arguments or disagreements of opi3-�.ion
I think you should go back to the man you bought the `iolase from.
Pfrs. Cartselos : Ile doesn't raise the taxes
Mrs . Lytle : He told you what the taxes Brie_—, a%-d they weren't complete.
Pair. Cartselos: The first time I come down to complain the mar. says
look it is a partial assessment. Look at your tax bill it is ox there.
I know a group that is going to vote for true tax evaluation.
Mrs. Lytle: You know what that is going to d.o . It _s -o ing to
cost you more.
Mr. Cartselos : You thin'- it is going to cost me more.
Mrs . Lytle: First 1a7ace it is going to have to be done all at one .
So each individual assessment will talk, maybe $50 an assessment
In addition, by the time you pay $50 and under the law if it is
changed that way today, business is paying a higher rate . Everyone
is going to pay the same rate. So to take care of the taxes the
bur!_- �ss has been. paying.
nir. Cartselos : Would you agree to our �eople paying $400-$500 a year.
And their homes . True value are worth 1009000. You don't think
so.
Mrs . Lytle: We don't have time to argue .
If you have any specific residences that you wish to compare your
house with, we will pull the cards and be 71ad. to do it.
Mrs. Cartselos: I don't know their names . The next year you raise it to
$1300 and the next year to $2000.
Mrs Robb administered the --oath ane P.'r. Pla.cRis answered. "I do"
27
Mrs . Lytle: Do you have this house insured.
i
_91_
Mr. Plackis: I have
Mrs . Lytle: Do you have the approximate idea
Mr. Placis : 30,0001 bought this house in 1964
for $1 ,000. Py assessment was 4100 then. Thea I build a
garage and they assess me 1700 more, 1966. ' That time I
didn't mind because the rates were so low and I have a pension
from the company which I have no more because the company we nt bankrupt
and I didn't mind it so much. But now I have social security
rad 5300 is too much.
Mrs. Lytle ; Are you in a position to take advantage of any of the
benefits or tax .relief
Mr, Plackis : The school is the main thing
Mrs. Lytles Have you taken advantage .of that.
Pyr. Plackis No, my social security alone is almost $5000. I would
appreciate it if you can reduce it a little
Mrs . Lytle s May I be very honest with you. Since your last assessment
was in 1966 you are very _fortunate that they have not reassessed
you somewhere's along the line ,
Mr. Plackis : It was so h'_gh at that time. ' 700 when I built the Garage.
Mrs. Lytles The rates being high is not our _fau,1t. It is part ofyour
taxes .
Virs. Lytle : Since that was asee,-sed ins. 66 ar,! this is 11 year later
and values 'aave gone up terrifically. I don't think there is a thing
or anything else a board of assessors could do for you .
You are just lucky they haven't come along. Unfortunately the
figuree—are nota b o7?1, nn t you or 1 carrr, pay ftr a piece of property
But that is it. I feel badly about it but I don't think. We will
look at it but it is 11 'years . You are lucky it hasn't gone up.
29 Mr. Robb administered the oath and '- r. Robert Gammon: answered "I do
Mr. Gammon: In addition to the certificate of occupancy I am
submitting a copy of the survey which you hav e the original
in your office and on there there is ars inscription* it states
water is not to be used in preparation of baby formula or co-.sumptior^_
under the age of six months . This is a matter of record as well
as my certificate of occupancy.
Mrs. Lytle: That is not too terribly unusual.
Mr. Gammon: That is true every once and a while. But the fact
still remains that I feel what we are taking into con sideration is
the fact the real property. I feel having a wife of my owns and
three children of my own, that women do tkke this into consideration
when they buy a home.
i i ► �
92
They take anything that car. adversely affect their pregnancy
or the prospective children and they become very emotional about it .
Mrs . Lytle: Did you build this house or did. you buy it.
Mr. Gammon.: I bui It it myself
nlrs. Lytle : Did you have the watrr tested before you built .
Mr. Gammon: No i didn't. I relied entirely on the survey that
was supplied. when. I bought the plot. There was a file map, and
on the file map it did state that the condition of the water
at the time . Now I assume that this map was legitimate as a matter
of fact. As a matter of fact I went over to the county center
and I find that the file map is the only fi le map that they
have on record and that was dated r1ay, 1971 . Evid extly thit
map has never been. updated. As a matter of fact I complied wi th
everything that I possibly could. on t he thing. I went over to see
a guy named Calvin Macamer. He heads the Suffolk Countwater
department a:-id he told me that I have to put the thing Gft in
I drove my own well, incidentally. Thea. I had. to put it up 20 ft.
then: another 10 feet now I am ir^. 11 feet in water and still
there is no appreciable d..ffere rice in the nitrate level.
There is Nothing that I can. do to eliminate the condition. 'he
other complaint I ha-e is. ;7ould you like me to read this letter.
Part III Paragraph B Part 7. A', th e time of the purchase of this
property I was not aware that the rereer-tage of r tratec iy, the
water supply was above that allowed by law. A'.'. ;.�-Idicat:.ons and
town records at the time of my p�rchasc of the property w :re
e-Itirely void of a, Vr sugvestion of this conditio . On the contrary
pnrtrayyed the idea Viat t.-Le water cadition was entir ely acceptable.
As a result of th ,c nor)(11tion I was ultimately required to
accept a rsstr et r cox the certificate of occupancy to the effect
that the water was unfit for use by preg-:ant women or i.,rifants
under the age of six months . This fact tithout doubt adverse',r affects
the resaleabili.ty of the pro;erty to a major degree and is
certainly a matter for co-.lsid_eration in terms of contemplation
of value. In addition to this condition, now we are co ming to
part 2 of my complai'ant. there exists a serious drainage problem
in the street, resulting in, accumulation of surface water whenever
there is a heavy rai ,.. This is undoubtedly due to the fact that
the drainage system is inadequately designed and constructed and is
to be distinguished from conditions designed, byordinary stopage. What
I am trying to say there but I feel, and I have f riends who are
engineers in this field. that the drains are not adequateto carry
off the surface water. We have been told by t he devbioper, Martin
,°lolecky, that it is due to the fact that they are stopped u-;� and
John Rose and numerous other people have taker various steps to
get he condition rectified and nothing has been done. Either
by the town or by the devdoner. At times the water rises to such
a height in the road they become impassable by automobile without
ae ofa be�? nig g t�l1�d, This cond its. on often lasts hours .
mestia 1 is days before It goes down
_93
In the winter time, particularly this past winter , it made
travel either by foot or by automobile extremely dangerous, and in
several instances my automobile has become physicial ly damaged
as a result of ice covered with snag . In the presence of these
conditions, without a doubt it creats a detriment to the property,
leaning my property. The other thing is that we, t7--at is a
private road. It has :not 11-:ee~_ dedicated .
T:Trs . Lytle: ;tell , then the developer is responsible
Mr. Ga.mmoni We have gone to the developer an'd he :,airs that as far
a.s this i-1 +cw,- ?^.-..,� approved the sewers and they
are adequate. The basins I am referring to now. This is the
story that he gives us . The thetown has approved the facilities .
i. rs . Lytle: In other words he has been released From h.3.>~ bond. .
T,"r. Gammo_,.. To Tell you the truth I don't know. I heard. stories
that he has. I really couldn't say with any degree of authority.
Mrs . Lytle: Did anybody approach the planning board on this.
Mr. Gammon: I perso-^ally have not. They have . Joh-n Rose has .
Mr, He got to the planning board
rr. Gammon: Yes , I am sure he did. With pictures . Another
party was Barbara Kelling,
Mrs . Lytle: Do you have any idea what the rlar =ng board told them
1.1r. Gammont They said it was the developers responsibility.
It has been-my udderstan.din.g that the town won't touch it.
Laurel Lane by the post office it is east of that.
Mrs . Lytle : Full market value of the property. Did you mean to put
in. $10,000.
TZr. Gammon: I believe here it says full assessed market value is .
That is �{rhat my assessment was . The tot alvalue is under this .
Discussion about the forms
Firs . Lytle: 'Y1hat is the reduction you want here.
r1r. Gammon.: I feel that $1000 off of the assessment, which would
bring if down. to $9000 on the basis that I d.A-rinately that the
:nitrate is going to be a deterent in selling the property Wher.
I take into consideration the size of the house the little old
.lady from passidana isn't going to buy that house. So it does
cater to a select few. PrimarilSr someone in my age bracket or younger.
-o4
Now, I know from experience that women are very funny ire regard
to preZnancy and childbirth. You mention. that can be injurious
to the health and well being of a child.
Ers. Lytle: T have a question in my mind _How far we can go
I 0.0111t think we have had this problem
Thr. Gammon: The unique situation of it is that everybody in my area
does not have this problem I can cite 4 or 5 other people agacent
that do not have this problem. I fl _ve done eve rythixg possible to
correct the proplem. A filter might work but as far as getting
this inscriptio_T off of here it is no good. It will not remove
it. His contention _s suppose you forget to ch:-.^ge _ `, thea the
device is, useless. That s rtuck o� tl-pre.
,:.xs. Lytle : To be very honest, this is our first case. There is
a big question in, my mind as whether it affects the assessed valuatior)..
The best thing we cxi. do is to look into it. Get some advice .
Mir. Gammon: That is a7_1 a ,_i. I can't ask any more .
P:Trs. Lytle a ?`le don't rake any decisions today. !.Taybe in a couple
Of VTPeks
Mrs. Lytle: Thank you.
?. � Jo __-i r' . Sham - Fisher's Island
30 - Celia Pauli
31 Ken-neth Dee,,,-,-a- , Nur' ington - Peeble beach property
32 - Kenneth A Deegan - second piece of property same address
33 -Ralph and Ethel Faig - Leden Drive
34 - Cornelius and June Enzel - New Hyde Park, Pziattituck Marlene Lane
35 - Anti Gomypis - Pcoble beach lot
36 - Nick and Ann Pegolopos - Peeble beach farms , East Marion
37 Spiral and JoanVeletsis - Peeble beach farms , with a Flushing address
33 - Colgage design corp. East Cutchogue Proper ty
39 0 7.1estbury Equipment Co.
40 - Christas and Enpholonia Moustopoulos Eastern Shores , Flushing address
41 - Bill and Anastasia Xartsouis - Astoria L.I. Sunset Knolls
42 - James L. and 7arie Grant - Cedar Dr. , Southold
43 - Cutchogue Joint Venture Asso , Inc.
-g5
44 - S & E Realty
45 - George L. Penny, Inc. North Rd.-, r?attituck
46 - Dorothy and Eileen Reed., N. Bayview Rd.
47 - Nicholas Plackis - Greenport
48 - Nickolas G . Plackis - second. parcel
49 - Edko Corp. Greenport
50 Costis and Stan Costidis Matt ituck
51 - Theodora A. Eiring - Woodside , Bayview Rd.
52 Surburbia Federal Savings and Loam Yattituck
53 - James and Brian Kavanaugh, Greenport Brian's Song
54 - Peter Derderin $ wife - Fisher's Island New Jersey addre ss
55 - Magdelire. Mvvas - Jamaica, Peeble Beach
56 - 235 YTill Street , . . .. . .. .arid Vera Yayer, Fisher's Isl a2 .d
57 - Associated. Eas ': -ending Co-2p.
John and Irma Hutter, Main Rd. , South of".
a.,id =Rari a^
Southold, N.Y.
ADOLPH KOEPPEL�
BERNARD SOMMER
IRVING 1.LESNICK 15161 PIONEER 7-6300
MICHAEL R. MARTONE
WILLIAM D. SIEGEL
SAUL FENCHEL
March 24, 1977
Board of Assessors
Town of Southold
Main Road R�
Southold, New York 17,791
MP
Att: Mr. Henry Moisa 5�O0
Re: Vera Mayer v. Town of Southold }
Item 'No. 73741 ' (Our File 9443). '
Dear Mr. Moisa:
Enclosed is a certified copy of an order of settlement in
the above matter directing reduction in the 1976/77 assessment from
$35,300 to $22,000.
Would you please forward certificates of erroneous assess-
ment to the Suffolk County Treasurer and to the Receiver of Taxes of
the Town of Southold.
Thank you for your courtesy and cooperation.
Very truly yours,
WDS/alw William D. Siegel
Enclosure
File 9443
SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK
- - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
In the Matter of Calendar No. 76-TR(N)-130
MAYER, STIPULATION OF SETTLEMENT
VERAPetitioner, Index No. Tax Year
against- 76-16857 1976/77
■
THE BOARD OF ASSESSORS AND THE Item #73741
BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW OF Tax Map 1000:002-01-009
THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD,
Respondent.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED.AND AGREED by and between the under-.; E
- i
signed that the tax review proceeding now pending be and• the _same hereby
is settled and adjusted on the following basis:
Tax Description Original- Amount of Final Total
Year -of Property Assessment Reduction Assessment
1976/77 Item #73741 $35,300 $13,300 $22,000
Tax Map 1000:002-
01-009
IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that the real property tax
paid by the petitioner to the Town of Southold for the tax year 1976/77,
insofar as such tax may exceed the tax payment due on the reduced assess-
went as aforesaid, shall be refunded to KOEPPEL SOMMER LESNICK & MARTONE,
P.C. , as attorneys for the petitioner, VERA MAYER, t-0g�ther-with-accxue3
. n
516 704-5100
November 10, 1976
Hon. Albert M. Martocchia, Supervisor
16 South Street
Greenport, New York 11944
Re: Mattituck Associates, Suburbia
Federal Savings & Loan v. The
Board of Assessment Review and
The Board of Assessors of the
Town of Southold
Dear Mr. Martocchia:
In connection with the above-entitled matters, all of
which have now been resolved, we submit for payment to the
Town Board the enclosed statement of services rendered.
Please note that we are billing at the rate of $60. 00
per hour, as we do in all other matters, and would point out
that we have confined our bill to a total of 40 hours notwith-
standing that a greater time was spent in the resolution of
this case.
Thanking you for permitting us to be of assistance to
you in this matter.
er t o rs,
f
C . d
RJC/j f
Enclosure
cps, .
SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
`COUNTY OF SUFFOLK
29-1 -------------------------------------------------X a.
n Ithe Matter of the Application of
MA TTITUC K ASSOCIATES .. a
Petitioner
-agai
nst_
NOTICEY
THE BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW Index No'.
AND THEASSESSOR
OF THE TOWN OF S O,iJTHOLD AND
THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Respondents P o
For Review of a Tax Assessment Under Article
7 of the Real Property Tax Law.
SIRS .-------------------------------------------x
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that upon the annexed petition verified the IOth
day of September, 1975 an application will be made at Special Term, PartI
of the Supreme Court of the State of New York, to be held in and for.the County`
of Suffolk at the County Courthouse thereof, located at 246 Griffing Avenue,
Riverhead, New York on the Sth day of November, 1975 at the opening of
Court on that day for review under Article 7 of the Real Property Tax Law of the
assessment upon petitioner's real property described in the petition, and for
such other and further relief as to the Court may seem just and proper.
DATED: Mineola , New York
September 10, 197
Yours, etc
CRONIN & MEDALIE
TO:
5
THE BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW Attorneys for Petitioner
AND THE ASSESSOR 1539 Franklin Avenue
OF THE TOWN OF S OUTHOLD Mineola , New York 11501
AND THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. Tel: 516-746-0606
PETITION. .
H --S LIP2E_h4E COURT OF THE STATE OF NEVI.% YOR K
v _ '
t�.. ; , 4T -SUFFOLK:
Petitioner respectfully shows and alleges:
-r
1. Tie above captioned petitioner whose
post office address is
1,7
�_. Y