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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979 �l M I N U T E S 0 F G R I E V A N C E D A Y F O R T H E T 0 W N O F S 0 U T H 0 L D July 17, 1979 PRESENT: BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW Mr. Samuel-''Maneral, Chairman Mrs. Mabel Lytle Mr. Theodore J. Heuser Mrs. Patricia Schwicker Mr. William Weinheimer BOARD OF ASSESSORS Mr. Melville A. Kelsey, Jr. , Chairman Mr. Henry Moisa Mr. Charles Watts Town of Southold Grievance Day July 17 . 1979 TABLE OF CONTENTS Item No. Matter of Page 1 Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Halligan 1 2 Mr. and Mrs. Louis J. Langhauser 4 3 Mr. and Mrs. Kenneth Peterson 6 4 Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Markel 9 5 Mr. and Mrs. Myron Matlaw 12 6A Mr. and Mrs. Louis Sachs and Mr. and 14 Mrs. Frederick Gardiner 6A Mr. and Mrs. Louis Sachs and Mr. and 20 Mrs. Frederick Gardiner 6B Mr. and Mrs. Louis Sachs and Mr. and 20 Mrs. Frederick Gardiner 6C Mr. and Mrs. Louis Sachs and Mr. and Mrs. Frederick Gardiner 20 7 Mr. and Mrs. Raymond Joseph Kenney 15 8 Robert Mehnkin (Hearing Never Held) 17 9 Mr. and Mrs . Gus Plackis 17 10 Mr. and Mrs. Martin Henry Garrell 28 11A Regens International Corporation 30 11B Helene Schmidt 33 12 Mr. and Mrs . Frank Costello 37 13 Mr. and Mrs. John Fabry 39 14 Mr. William A. Penney, Jr. 43 15 Mr. and Mrs. Leon Gordon 44&48 16 Mr. and Mrs. John Bednoski , Jr. 58 17 VOID 18 Mr. Peter Terranova 54 Item No. Matter of Page 19 Cousins Realty Corp 62&67 20 Mr. and Mrs. Joseph R. Avignon 64&70 21 Mr. and Mrs. Leonard Nezin 76 22 Mark Edwin Andrews 82 23 Fishers Island Sea Wynde, Inc. 82 24 Fishers Island Sea Wynde, Inc. 82 25 Fishers Island Sea Wynde, Inc. 82 26 Fishers Island Sea Wynde , Inc. 82 27 Vera Mayer 90 28 Vera Mayer 93 29 Mr" . and Mrs. Nicholas: .Kouros 94 30A Mr. and Mrs. Grenville T. Emmet, III 95 30B Mr. and Mrs. Grenville T. Emmet, III 97 31 Mr. and Mrs. James W. B. Benkard 98 32 Lorraine Swiatocha and Carl Blasko, Jr. 100 33 Strong Oil Company, Inc. 104 34 Mr. Robert Stotsky 105 35 Mr. and Mrs . Walter H. Burden, Jr. 107 36 Edward P. Jurzenia 111 37 Mr. and Mrs. Irving Pitman 112 38 Charles Rand 112 39 Mr. and Mrs. Alexander Sarris 127 40 Countrywide Management Associates, Inc. 118 41 Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. 119 42 Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. 120 43 235 Mill Street, Inc. 122 Item No. Matter of Page 44 Donald G. King 123 45 Donald G. King 125 46 Evlene H. King 125 47 Strong Oil Company 128 48 Mr. and Mrs. William Brennan 129 49 Harry Mitchell Family Corporation 131 50A Arshamomaque Assoc__ 133 50B Arshamomaque Associates 134 51 Mr. and Mrs. George Mahr 134 52 Mary Doris Whyard & others 134 53 Mary D. Cassidy 134 54 Andrew F. Cassidy 134 55 Mr. and Mrs. Murray Weitman 134 56 The Southland Corporation 135 57 Alan A. Cardinale 135 58 Cutchogue Joint Venture 135 59 S. & E Realty Co. 135 60 Hodor, Staller and Kasper 135 61 Vantage Petroleum Corp 135 62 Joseph Pumillo & others 135 63 Joseph T. Macari &_others 135 64 Southland Development Corp. 135 65 Ulysses E. Gallanos 135 66 Vantage Petroleum Corp. 135 67 Mr. and Mrs. Erich Bergman 136 Mr. Samuel Maneral, Chairman, Board of Assessment Review, opened the Grievance Day Proceedings. at 9 : 08 A.M. July 17, 1979 , at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, New York. Other members of the Review Board present were: Mabel Lytle, Theodore Heuser, Patricia Schwicker and William Weinheimer. MR. MANERAL: Before we get started, just let me say that our main purpose here is to be of help to you. You are here because you feel you are being assessed too high. All we can do for you is to listen to your facts, review the cases later, and let you know by mail "yes" or "no" . Of course if you do not like what we do then you can go to the Courts to get your relief that way. With that in mind, we would like to get started. This way we are not enemies of yours and you are not enemies of ours. May we call the first case. MRS SCHWICKER: Joseph P. Halligan. Will you take an oath please? MR. HALLIGAN: Yes. MRS . SCHWICKER GAVE THE OATH TO MR. HALLIGAN MR. HALLIGAN: I do. Last year I had an alteration done at the house that I have. My assessment was jumped by $2,000 . 00 , and I came here before the commission and protested. It was reduced by $1,000. 00 which I thought was fair and equitable. After the assessment I had a fire there in the fireplace. It affected a 1/4 of the house which I had to fix up. Since that time I have not anything to the house. The only thing I have done with the house is there was an outside shower that was on the house before, and what I did was box it in with a couple pieces of plywood and a door. It cost me less than $40. 00, and that has' been the only thing I have done. -I have painted the outside with varnish which also cost about $40. 00. I do not understand why I should be assessed more again after last year. MR. HEUSER: When was the house renovated, Mr. Harrigan? MR. HALLIGAN: In 1977. MR. HEUSER: Was that the old house, sir? MR. HALLIGAN: Conceivably yes. We put— there were two cabins there. The assessed valuation there was somewhere around. . . . MR. HEUSER: You say here it was $2 ,000 . 00, and that was in 1978? MR. HALLIGAN: That was the increase in the assessed valuation. Then I came here and it was reduced. Since then I have just put some blocks under the foundation to straighten the house out, and I covered the house over with plywood at that time. Then it was raised to $6 ,100. Then I came here and it was reduced $1,000 off the $6 ,100. 00 , which I thought was okay since I had put the improvements on there. At that time it was a fair assessment, I believe. But I have done nothing this year in 1978 or 1979 . Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 2 MR. HEUSER: And they raised you $1 ,000 . 00 again this year? MR. HALLIGAN: That' s right. MRS. SCHWICKER: Ted, may I have the card down here, please? MR. MANERAL: I would like to ask one question. You say there are two houses on the piece of property. Which one are we talking about? MR. HALLIGAN: I believe it is the same house. MR. MANERALc The other is just a shack. These pictures are all of the same house? MR. HEUSER: That third one is a back house . MRS. LYTLE: What does he have the house insured for? MR. HALLIGAN: I have the place insured for about $20 , 000 . 00. You can check that out with Reeves in Mattituck. MR. HEUSER: You bought that in 1976 , sir? MR. HALLIGAN: I think I bought that in 1975 . My mortgage was up last year. MR. HEUSER: The reason I ask is that you have it marked down here on the form in 1976. The property card says you owned it before that. MR. HALLIGAN: It could be 1975 . He divided the property in half, and I was renting that so he sold it to me. It ' s on Bay Avenue in Mattituck. MR. HEUSER: Would it be possible that you bought this in 1974? MR. HALLIGAN: No, sir. MR. HEUSER: That is the only time there is any change. In 1974 and in 197.8. MR. HALLIGAN: What happened was there was an apportionment. They went out and apportioned that property. MR. HEUSER: Excuse me, I ' ll interrupt. In May 17, 1976, sold for the amount stated here. You know what it is . H. Baldwin to J. Halligan and wife. MR. HALLIGAN: That' s right. MR. HEUSER: And you know what you paid for it. Yet you value the property less than the sales price? MR. HALLIGAN: Well there is land there, too. MR. HEUSER: Which has increasing value, sir. Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 3 MR. HALLIGAN: It is going to increase when you get full assessment. My land is no more value to me than someone next door or on the other side of me or on the other side of the street. I understand that when you get full assessment, we are going to have a bit of a problem here . MR. HEUSER: We all agree with you. MR. HALLIGAN: We have the same situation down town. I am a tax commissioner in Queens. We are going to go for full assessment and we don' t know what we are doing. There is not criterion set up. We can' t even follow Islip. MRS . LYTLE: But that is not the basis on which we are assessing now. MR. HALLIGAN: That' s right. MRS. LYTLE: So our thinking is entirely different. MR. MANERAL: Are there any other questions? MR. HEUSER: I am adverse to asking certain questions since it is an open meeting, but I can say this: You know what you paid for the property. You know what you want it reduced to? The only questionI am raising is why? MR. HALLIGAN: That' s my question. MR. HEUSER: My question to you is why do you want it reduced to less than you paid for it. MR. HALLIGAN: Because I think it was assessed fairly last year and this year it was raised. MR. HEUSER: No, that' s not the point. The purchase price that you have on your papers here is one figure and the new value that you want to put on the property is $5,000 . 00 less than you paid for it. MR. HALLIGAN: That' s about right. MR. HEUSER: My only question is why? MR. HALLIGAN: Because it would be in keeping with everyone else in that section. The assessed valuation was increased last year, and there is no reason to increase it this year. MR. HEUSER: They raised back the original reduction? MR. HALLIGAN: Yes. MR. HEUSER: We can submit that to the Board of Assessors and find out why. MRS. LYTLE: What about' the neighboring property? Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 4 MR. HALLIGAN: No one on my block has an increase. It is only a short block. I agreed last year that I had done some work there, and I thought what I came out with was fair, but to put the other $1,000. 00 back now, that is my objection. I did not do anything. I didn' t invest any money there or anything. MRS. LYTLE: What does the card show? MR. HEUSER: That the outside has been improved. MR. HALLIGAN: That was last year, sir. MR. HEUSER: That' s right. MR. MANERAL: Thank you Mr. Halligan. We will give it our best work. Mr. Halligan is appealing under the overvaluation section. The property is presently assessed at $5 ,100. 00, and Mr. Halligan is asking that it be reduced to $4 ,100. 00 . No. 2 - Louis J. and Elizabeth D. Langhauser, 248 Fifth Avenue, Greenport, New York. MRS. SCHICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Langhauser. MRS. SCHWICKER: Mr. and Mrs. Langhauser are applying on the grounds of inequality. They are presently assessed at $3, 500. 00 and feel it should be reduced to $3, 000 . 00 . MR. LANGHAUSER: I do. I am a little bit confused, but what I did was look into what our neighbors are in the area. MR. MANERAL: Yes, you have some notes in here. MR. LANGHAUSER: I am being assessed a little higher than they are. The other thing is that my house is a church. A church is a little unique. as a home. I think it would be a lot easier to sell a regular house than it would be to sell a church as a home. I am retired and living on a fixed income. Now this has gone up 300 percent. That makes me wonder what is going to happen to me. MRS. LYTLE: Where are the cards for these applications. We cannot do anything without those cards. MR. MANERAL: Henry, do you have these cards? MR. HEUSER: Give him the rest of the list so he can get them all for us. MR. MANERAL: You have the list out there, may we have the cards that go with these? MRS . JULIA KING: We will bring the cards in as the people come in. Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 5 MR. MANERAL: Well, I think we could move things along faster if we had them all. MRS. KING: I just gave you that one though. MR. MANERAL: You have the list out there, don't you. MRS. KING: Yes. MR. MANERAL: Well, if we can have those, it will be a help to us. Can I look through that file, while we are waiting? MRS. SCHWICKER: Could I look at the application please? MR. HEUSER: Mr. Langhauser your assessed valuation is roughly $10, 000 gross valuation. Using our factor of 25%, that brings it down to $3, 900 . You realize what you paid for your property don 't you sir? MR. LANGHAUSER: When you look for a home, everything seems to start around that price. MR. HEUSER: The unfortunate part about that is when you bought that home it had not been re-assessed for 12 years, which is a big gap. MRS. CONROY: Excuse, me, could you speak up a little bit. MRS. LYTLE: You will have to speak louder. MR. HEUSER: I can 't. I have a bad throat. Someone else will have to speak. MR. MANERAL: Could you speak up so the secretary can hear our con- versation? MRS. CONROY: Thank you. MR. HEUSER: Right. MRS. LYTLE: Do you want any part of that over again? MRS . CONROY: No, the tape will pick it up, but I cannot hear them. MR. MANERAL: Are there any questions you would like to ask? Mr. Langhauser? MRS. LYTLE: Has it been raised recently? MR. HEUSER: Not for 12 years. MRS. LYTLE: No increase for 12 years? MR. MANERAL: We have some statements that Mr. Langhauser has made here . We can review those when we review the whole case. Are there any other questions anyone would like to ask? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 6 MRS . LYTLE: Are his statements pertinent? MR. HEUSER: Could I see the property card again, please? MR. WEINHEIMER: It is coming back. On your application, Mr. Lang- hauser you say the market value is $3500 , but the purchase price was $35 ,000. 00. MR. LANGHAUSER: That' s correct. MR. WEINHEIMER: I doesn' t agree, does it? MR. MANERAL: Thank you, Mr. Langhauser. We will review this case for you. No. 3 - Kenneth Peterson and wf, 72775 Main Road (Front Street) , Greenport, New York. MR. HEUSER: You can use my notes, Mabel. MRS. LYTLE: Okay. MRS . SCHWICKER Administered the oath to Mr. Peterson. MR. HEUSER: Langhauser was No. 2. MR. MANERAL: We have his application here. MR. HEUSER: What was the purchase price of your property, sir? Is there some supporting information here? MR. MANERAL: Yes, he has some. MR. PETERSON: $1,200. 00 is quite a large increase. I checked on some of the other people around and I was raised way up and I have not done anything to the house. There has not been any physical change to the house since we got it, and even before we got it. It was my wife 's grandmother' s house. MR. HEUSER: Cah you give us a purchase price? MR. PETERSON: No, it was my wife ' s grandmother' s house. It was more or less a given thing with a mortgage to fix it up. MRS. SCHWICKER: Can you give us an original price? MR. PETERSON: There are many other houses in Greenport similar to this and none of them have the assessment like I do. MR. HEUSER: Incidently you have an assessed valuation of $3,600 .00 . It is only $3, 000 .00 on the card. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 7 MR. PETERSON: This thing just came in the mail. I just got this letter in the mail saying it was going to be raised up. MR. HEUSER: May I see it, sir? MR. MANERAL: We need the boys from outside. MR. HEUSER: Wait a minute . The applicant is Kenneth Peterson. We have a Martin Peterson here . MR. PETERSON: That' s not my house MR. HEUSER: That' s your house sir. MRS. SCHWICKER: Are you Kenneth Peterson or Martin Peterson, sir? MR. PETERSON: Kenneth Peterson. This is a two bedroom house. A house two houses away from me here on the corner has three bedrooms and he is assessed less than me. His house is 25 years old and my house is 79 . My neighbor' s went up $500. 00 and mine went up $1,200. 00. MR. MANERAL: Let me go and see if I can save some time. (Mr. Maneral left the dias. ) MR. PETERSON: There is a house identical to mine, Mr. Kiski there. MRS . LYTLE: I think I would like to call a recess. The entire board must be sitting at all times . MR. HEUSER: We are not sitting at this point. We did not adjourn, but we are not sitting. MRS . LYTLE: You will have to wait a minute, we are not sitting. MR. PETERSON: Bruno Kiski ' s house is similar to mine in size and everything. I was just wondering the variation in assessment between the two. Why should I be raised so much more. I haven ' t done anything. MRS. SCHWICKER: We will have to end the discussion sir until the Chairman returns. MR. PETERSON: What would be the basis for such a large increase? MR. HEUSER: We will have to ask the assessors, sir . I can't see it right now at this point. MRS . LYTLE: Is there an assessor here? I mean sitting in here? MRS. SCHWICKER: Why isn' t he sitting in here? MRS. LYTLE: There should be an assessor in here all the time. MRS . SCHWICKER: Tell Henry Moisa we need him in here . He' s right out in the hall. Towh of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 8 MRS . SCHWICKER: Henry, can you stay in here? MRS. LYTLE: We must have an assessor sitting here at all times. MR. MANERAL: We have an increase here, and we would like to know if you know the reason for the' increase? Can you justify the reason. HENRY MOISA: Do you want the assessor who handles that area to come in, or doesn' t it make any difference? We reviewed the whole area in Greenport. This gentlemen fell within that review area. That is the reason for the change. MR. HEUSER: His complaint is based on comparable properties. MR. PETERSON: I don' t understand why $12 ,00 .00 compared to the rest of them. MR. MANERAL: Excuse me sir. Address your comments through me. MR. MOISA: Actually looking over the card. The last assessment was 1965, and it was the feeling of the Board that there had been some improvements made since then. The rate has been brought up to a comparable rate with everyone else. It does have a depreciation factor of 25% taking into consideration the age of the house. MR. HEUSER: The house you are using for comparable basis has less footage in it. MR. PETERSON: The extensions don' t count as part of this? MR. HEUSER: You have 4, 166 square feet, and he has 3, 944 square feet. MR. PETERSON: Still he did not go up anything near what I did. This is $1, 200 . 00 . MR. MOISA: He went up $400 . 00. MR. PETERSON: I went up $1,200 . 00 . I have not done any improvements to the house. MR. MANERAL: When did you take over the house, sir. MR. PETERSON: I have had it for 27 years. MR. MANERAL: You see it has not' been assessed since you owned it. MR. PETERSON: When I built the garage they were there. MR. MANERAL: What I was wondering about was from the time you were given the house, have there been any improvements made? They only assessed the garage when you added that. They never touched the house. MR. PETERSON: We haven ' t done nothing but paint the place. MR. MANERAL: You haven' t, but I 'm talking about the people who owned it before you did. Towh of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 9 MR. PETERSON: My wife 's grandmother. It is just the same as when it was given to us. The porches were enclosed at the time it was builf and everything. There have been no changes to the house. MRS. LYTLE: Does it show a diagram on the back? MR. PETERSON: But this other house that I am using has 3 bedrooms and I only have 2 bedrooms, and he is assessed lower. It doesn ' t make sense to me. MR. MANERAL: Okay, fine . We will take all these things into account. Are there any more questions that anyone would like to ask? MR. HEUSER: We will have to put the purchase price down as unknown. MR. PETERSON: That' s right. The house has a value, but I did not expect it to be raised $1, 200. 00. It is something like 50%. MRS. SCHWICKER: Could I please have his application? MR. HEUSER: You have a value on it of $25 ,000. 00 . MR. PETERSON: Yes, I am assuming so. The house next door which is larger was just sold at an auction for $39, 000. 00 . MRS . LYTLE: How much do you have it insured for? MR. PETERSON: With everything in it $40,000. 00. MRS . LYTLE: You have it insured for $40, 000. 00 . MR. PETERSON: Yes, I think so, I'm not sure. MR. MANERAL: That includes furniture and all? MR. PETERSON: -Yes, and my garage and all. I do not question the value of the house. I just question the large jump in the assessment. MR. MANERAL: Thank you very much for coming in, Mr. Peterson. Mr. Peterson's complaint is based on inequality. He feels the assessment should be lowered to $2, 500. 00 or $2, 700. 00 . The present assessment is $3,600. 00. MR. PETERSON: Do you keep all of my papers? MR. MANERAL: Yes, we keep this all together. No. 4 - Samuel Markel and Mary Markel, Box 436 , Southold, New York. MRS . SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Markel.. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 10 MR. MANERAL: Would you like to sit, Sam. MR. HEUSER: Who has the card on this? MRS . SCHWICKER: I do. MR. HEUSER: Who has the form? MR. MARKEL: Can I begin? MR. HEUSER: As far as I 'm concerned you can, but it is up to the Chairman. MR. MANERAL: Okay, go ahead. MR. MARKEL: This piece of property was raised a few years ago, and I came before the Board and got it reduced at that time. The following year they raised it again, and I was unable to appear. This is the stores on the old North Road. MRS . LYTLE: Is this business property: MR. HEUSER: Yes. MR. MARKEL: The stores are old. I might add the building has deter- iorated to a great degree. It is less than 50% rentable at the present time . MR. MANERAL: Is that due to deterioration or is that due to the fact there is no call for the space you have available? MR. MARKEL: Both. One does not help the other. If you notice I put some notes inside. I gave you some comparable and some monetary figures on the building. This does not include any of the extra expenses that I might have. MRS . LYTLE: Do we have a special form for income properties? I think I have them somewhere. MR. MARKEL: I have had the building on the market and I can't sell it because I have a restriction against it as far as all purposes of sale. MRS. SCHWICKER: What are the restrictions? MR. MARKEL: You are not allowed to sell any alcoholic beverages from that building. It is a deed restriction. That has hampered the sale of that building. MR. MANERAL: Have you had any offers from anyone? MR. MARKEL: No. I have it with every real estate broker in Town. MR. MANERAL: Are there any questions? Town of Southold • . Grievance Day - Page 11 MRS. LYTLE: Mr. Chairman, do you have a form for income? MR. MARKEL: I filled out a piece of paper concerning that. MR. MANERAL: No, I don' t have such a form. MRS. LYTLE: There is such a form. MR. HEUSER: If the claim is based on income, there is a different type of form MR. MARKEL: Well, it is based on two things. One is equal assess- ment on like business properties. MRS. LYTLE: Do you name any? MR. MARKEL: I certainly do. MR. HEUSER: He has a list here. MR. MARKEL: I can give you 25 more if you like . MRS. SCHWICKER: Can I have his application for just a moment please? MRS . LYTLE: Is Mr. Moisa here? MR. MANERAL: Yes, and Mr. Watts is here also. Mr. Moisa may we see you a minute please? MRS . LYTLE: On a piece of business property like we are discussing. Does he not file on income? MR. MOISA: No, we don' t require because we cannot assess as such. MRS . LYTLE: You don' t? MR. MOISA: We just assess. . . MRS . LYTLE: There is such a form. MR. MOISA: Pardon, There is such a form, but we don ' t use it. Our assessing is based on construction costs from 1960 to 1970 and at 25% of the cost at that time, whether it is business or residential. It is all the same. MR. MANERAL: Thank you. MR. HEUSER: Henry, what does "GD" mean? MR. MOISA: Grievance Day. MR. MARKEL: By the way, Mabel was asking what the property was insured for, and it is insured for $15,000 . 00 . This is fire insurance. Town of Southold . • Grievance Day - Page 12 MR. MANERAL: We will make a note of that. Are there any other questions that anyone would like to ask of Mr. Markel? Let the record show that Mr. Markel is requesting a reduction in his assessment to $10 ,000. 00. No. 5 - Myron and Julia Matlaw, 43 West 93rd Street, New York, New York 10025 MRS. SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mrs. Matlaw. MRS . MATLAW: When we got our reassessment I went down and examined in detail my assessment. We have recently improved the property. It was rather pitiful in the beginning and in great need of improvement. Our property is located on the lagoon in Nassau Point in Cutchogue and what I did was study the assessment for not only mine, but everyone else, and found that except for the estate which occupies one large end of the lagoon ours was the highest assessment. I felt that was out of line. Most of the properties on the lagoon have been improved and many of them have been sold in recent years . One of them, the one on lot No. 95 through 98 is on a much larger lot and the main house on that piece of property is larger and a more expensive building than mine, yet he is assessed for $1, 000 less. I felt that perhaps after I examined several others that I would find a more equal assesement, but I found there were assessed at $10 , 900 .00, $10, 800. 00 and that I felt mine of $13,500 was out of line. I appreciate the work that the assessors did, but I feel the assessment is out of line. Although I think that my property since the improvements is as valuable as some of the others, I don' t think my assessed valuation is worth an extra $1,000. 00 . I have examined everyone else 's property in detail, and I feel the assessment is considerably out of line . If you look at the card you will find we have made several improvements, and I feel 'that possibly the increase in assessement is due to the cottage which we built to replace a shed, a gardening shed and greenhouse and work room which was attached to the greenhouse. The greenhouse was there in the beginning. If you look on the pictures you can tell it had a work- room. This was part of the original Blem estate. The greenhouse, work rooms and shed were deteriorating and termit ridden and when I told a builder to replace them, he said you might as well put a room in it for a guest cottage, which I did. I think it is noted that this is a single family. It is not another family house, it is a guest house with a living room and bedroom. Okay, looking at the pictures, let' s go back to the beginning. The main house (Picture No. 3, No. 1) . Oh, they don ' t have the front view, which is the nicest one. This was the original main house . This was the existing greenhouse, work room, and these were storage and work places. The building I replaced all this with doesn' t take up any more ground space, and in addition to a living room and bedroom a work room and a garden storage space . MR. MANERAL: Are there any cooking facilities there? MRS . MATLAW: No, we are not allowed to have cooking facilities in it. MR. MANERAL: But there is livable space there? MRS . MATLAW: Yes, you have to have a place to put your kids when Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 13 they come to visit. The houses on the other lots that I pointed out are considerably larger and the construction is more expensive, and there are a couple of other houses that I feel are more valuable. Although my house is very nice, I don' t feel it is worth $1,000 more in assessment. I went card by card and examined everything. They have a mistake on that. The original house is listed as a five room house, and it is really a seven room house. Now, we did improve that property three times. We improved it in 1976, 1977 and 1978. MR. HEUSER: 1977 , 1977 and 1978. You were not raised between 1972 and 1977. So they increased you in 1977 for the improvements. MRS. MATLAW: Now I also looked up the assesseme--nt in 1971. If you take the percentage of increased assessment on the other properties of the lagoon, you would find my increase is a far higher percentage. You see I made myself this splended little chart which tells everything about the other properties. . MRS . SWICKER: Could we have that please? MR.- HEUSER: Without discussing prices too loud, you know what you paid for this. MRS. MATLAW: We paid $40, 000 . 00. MR. HEUSER: The card says you remodeled it for $50 ,000 . 00 in 1979 . On your form it says here in 1979 the cost is $110,000 . 00 . MRS. MATLAW: That is the cost of the improvement. MR. HEUSER: That is what I am talking about. Yet you insure it or value it at $110,000. 00. MRS. MATLAW: I am doing that in terms of what their evaluation is. MR. HEUSER: You have also used the wrong equalization rate. 12. 28 is not 'the equalization rate. MRS. MATLAW: I used the figures they told me to. MRS. LYTLE: Who told you? MR. MANERAL: Excuse me, Mr. Watts, would you come forward please. Would you tell us what equalization rate you used when you assessed this property. MR. WATTS: I don't use equalization rate to assess. MR. HEUSER: But you do to tax. MR. WATTS: No we don 't. We use approximately 25% of the 1960 to 1970 construction costs. MR. HEUSER: Okay, this equalization rate is the basis of your assessment. Your property is worth $110, 000. 00 by your own admission. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 14 MRS. MATLAW: That' s right, if you take that 12 . 28 figure. MR." MANERAL: We get all the facts and then we sit down and study everything. MR. HEUSER: I saw some place here that you have a $65,000 .00 mortgage. The way the assessors assess the value of the property you are assessed on is $64, 000. 00 . MRS. MATLAW: That is an assessed valuation, not a real valuation. MR. HEUSER: That is your base. MRS. MATLAW: I only put down what I thought was a fair price. MR. HEUSER: If that is the case, you are under assessed. MRS . MATLAW: I only did what I was told to do. MR. MANERAL: We will take that into consideration. MRS. MATLAW: Let me make a copy of the chart that I am going to give you so I have one for my records. MR. MANERAL: Does anyone else have any questions? No. 6A- Louis Sachs & wf and FW & EP Gardiner, 503 First Street, Greenport, New York MR. HEUSER: Now there are two No. 6 ' s here. MRS. SACHS : Yes, Sachs. MRS . SCHWICKER: There are 3 altogether. MRS. LYTLE: They all have to be numbered separately. MR. SACHS : There are two on one application and one on the other. That other one is in the name of Fred Gardiner. MR. MANERAL: How many of these do you have? MR. SACHS: Two. MRS. LYTLE: For the record they will have to be numbered separately. MR. HEUSER: They will have to be numbered and filed separately. MR. MANERAL: Then we will make them 6A and 6B. MR. HEUSER: You cannot file two on one form either. MRS LYTLE: They have to be individually numbered. Town of Southold • . Grievance Day - Page 15 MRS. SACHS: We did not realize there.had to be separate forms. MR. SACHS : We were not so instructed. Just give us another form and we will fill it out for you before we leave. MRS . SWICKER: Each property has to be numbered separately. MR. HEUSER: I will tell you what we will do. Let these folks go out and complete the forms, take the next number, and then come back and we will hear your case then. Put each claim on an individual form. If there are three pieces of property, you will need three forms. No. 7 - Raymond Joseph Kenney and wife, Rural Route # 1, Box 23, Cutchogue, New York. MRS. SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Kenney. MR. HEUSER: We need Mr. Kenney' s card. MR. MANERAL: Will you please present your case? MR. KENNEY: I purchased this property in 1965, and I had an occassion to look at your records in 1973 and they showed that the house had a full cellar. Whereas, we only have a crawl space. I spoke to Mr. Fox. That was erased. MRS. SCHWICKER: Before we go any further, he will have to fill out the rest of the form. MR. MANERAL: Excuse me, this must be filled out completely. MRS . SCHWICKER: We must know what you want your assessment reduced by. MR. MANERAL: In this form you have not asked us to do anything. MR. KENNEY: I put my case down here under illegality. This has nothing to do with the value of the property. MR. MANERAL: This must be completed for us to hear this case. This is what the law tells us we have to do according to the County Assessors Office. You have to fill out these forms so we know how to act. MR. KENNEY: When I presented it yesterday to the tax assessors. . . MR. MANERAL: We have nothing to do with the tax assessors. MRS. SCHWICKER: He has not given us any figures to go by there. MR. HEUSER: Before we go any further, your taxes were reduced. MR. KENNEY: Yes, it was reduced to 7200 but that was on the rolls. Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 16 I have been paying taxes on that house as a full cellar since 1965 . I did that until 1978. I am sure that the house with a full cellar is taxes higher than a house with a crawl space . That is my only problem. I didn' t fill out the rest of this form because it was incidental, as far as I was concerned. It is just the plain fact that I was over taxed for all those years. MRS. LYTLE: That has to show on the form. MR. HEUSER: No, this can be accepted on this basis . MRS . LYTLE: It can? MR. HEUSER: It has nothing to do. The only thing we need from you Mr.Kenney is to fill in the purchase price. MR. KENNEY: The purchase price was $25 ,500 . 00 MR. HEUSER: Okay, fill this out, the value of your property, your mortgage value and so forth, and we can handle your case in five minutes . MR. KENNEY: I don' t know how to get this information. MR. HEUSER: You can come back. We will handle you in five minutes . MRS . SCHWICKER: Check off the areas with your pencil , Ted. MR. HEUSER: This area, this area, and this area, and your complaint. MR. KENNEY: Well, here is my complaint. MR. HEUSER: I know, but these other things are pertinent to your complaint. MR. MANERAL: You are saying you want this because it is illegal. It is not a question of illegality. It is a question of over-evaluation. MR. KENNEY: Over taxing. MR. MANERAL: No, over-evaluation. We have nothing to do with that. On our form it is overvaluation, not illegality. Please get rid of that. We have no recourse to hear this. When you come back we will not put you at the end of the line, we hear you. MR. KENNEY: I don' t know where to get the market value of the property, except for what I have it insured for. MR.MANERAL: Well, that is an indication. MRS. SWICKER: One way to look at it is , if you had to sell your house tomorrow, what would you sell it for? What do you feel is the full market value of your house? MR. KENNEY: What about the rest of these questions in here? Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 17 MR. HEUSER: Forget about them, I just want you to fill in the full value, forget the equalization. Your complaint is over-valuation and why you consider it that. The purchase price of your property and also the insured value. MR. KENNEY: What time is it? 2 to 4? MR. MANERAL: 1 to 4 and 7 to 9 . MR. KENNEY: This session is only up to 12 :00? MRS. LYTLE: Right. MR. KENNEY: If I can' t get back by 12 . MRS. LYTLE: It' s all right. Whenever you can get back. MR. MANERAL: We will leave the card here. No. 8 - Mehnkin. Robert. MR. MANERAL: There is no No. 8. There has to be . We had nine at the very beginning. MR. HEUSER: There is no No. 8? MR. MANERAL: Who is No. 9? We will leave No. 8 blank . Maybe they will come later. No. 9 - Gus Plackis, and wife, 502 Front Street, Greenport, New York. MRS . SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Plackis. MR. PLACKIS: Do you have a picture of the house. I would like to have a picture of one of the neighbor's houses. So you can see the difference . MR. HEUSER: You give us the name and we will get it for you. MR. PLACKIS: Jaeger. William or Evelyn Jaeger. MR. MANERAL: Would you like to state your case? MR. PLACKIS: I would like to compare Jaeger' s with mine. MR. MANERAL: We will do that, when we sit and make a decision. MR. PLACKIS: I would like to do that now. Ten years ago I was assessed 1400. 00 . I filed for reduction last year, but they didn' t give Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 18 it to me. This year they raised me $400. 00. It is not fair for the house I have compared to what you are going to see for Jaeger's house. I live on Social Security and I cannot afford this. I have no kids going to school . I paid $14, 000 .00 for the house with the furniture. MRS. SCHWICKER: What does it look like? Do we have his card yet? MR. MANERAL: There is a mistake here in the application here I am sure. MR. HEUSER: Oh yes, you have $1, 400. 00 instead of $14 ,000. 00 . You just missed a "0", that' s all. MR. PLACKIS: That' s including the furniture, too. I 'm retired and on social security and I just cannot pay this. MRS. LYTE: When was the last time he was re-assessed. MR. HEUSER: This year, but before than 1964 . Another thing sir, You have your full market value at $2 , 300. 00 . You left a "0" out of there, too. I guess you meant $23,000.00 . Mr. Placket is presently asses at $6 , 200. 00 and wishes to have it reduced to $5 ,750 . 00 . in? MR. MANERAL: This is William or Evelyn Jaeger you are interest MR. PLACKIS: Yes. MR. PLACKIS: You compare this house to what I have and you will see that I am over assessed. MR. HEUSER: I have two Jaegers, which one did you mean? MR. PLACKIS: Evelyn. MR. HEUSER: Oh, I see, they have two houses here. Which one did you want to compare. MR. PLACKIS: This one. It is 50 years newer than mine. MR. HEUSER: It doesn' t look 50 years newer than yours. It looks good. MR. PLACKIS: It is newer than mine. Mine is 80 years old. Look at his assessment and look at mine. MR. HEUSER: Let me see the area. MR. PLAKIS: He has a corner lot and I have a corner lot. He is right across from me. MR. HEUSER: Fire place, yes, fire place, no. You have a fire place Mr. Plackis, they don' t. You have one and one half baths and you have pine floors The interior finish is plaster, plaster. Hot water--oil heat, hot water oil heat. Now the area, sir. The area of their house is 5,645 Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 19 feet. The living area of your house is 8,775 feet. MR. MANERAL: That is almost 3, 000 more living feet than your neighbors. MR. HEUSER: Now, you did get a depreciation allowance of 45% on that area. They reduced it. MR. PLACKIS: When. MR. HEUSER: When they figured your base. They reduced it. Only 4827 square feet. MR. PLACKIS: Yes, but then they increased it for $400 . 00 after that. MR. HEUSER: One reason they increased it sir is that you were not re-assessed for 13 years. This is not being sarcastic, but for 13 years you were getting a tax break-. Do you understand what I mean? MR. MANERAL: It was sold for 58, 000, reduced to 4.1,000 and then went back to 58,000 . MR. HEUSER: That's right, 13 years later it goes up $400. 00 . One reason and we are running into that with all older properties that have not been re-assessed for 13 or 14 years. MR. PLACKIS: They have 5 kids going to school, I have no one. I 'm paying a school tax for them. MR. MANERAL: So are we all. MRS. LYTLE: That doesn't make any difference according to your tax. MR. MANERAL: We have no jurisdiction over that. MR. HEUSER: I don't want to pay that school tax myself. MR. PLACKIS: But they have 5 kids. I have no one and I 'm paying. MR. HEUSER: What can you` do? MR. MANERAL: We have no power there. MRS. LYTLE: It is not' based on the number of children, it is based on the property itself. MR. PLACKIS: My house is 80 years old and this house is only about 40 years old. MR. HEUSER: Purchase price? This mortgage that you have here, do you have it for just one year? MR. PLACKIS: Yes, until I sold my house in Huntington to buy this. That is when I bought it, not now. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 20 MR. HEUSER: Oh, not now. MR. PLACKIS : I 'm on social security, how can I pay this? MR. HEUSER: You are comparing it now with this house, right. MR. MANERAL: There is another card that goes with that. MRS. LYTLE: That does not effect this. MR. PLACKIS: That is the property next to it. MR. PLACKIS: In 2 years you are going to 100 percent assessment, why don' t you wait until then? MR. MANERAL: We don't do that. We only listen to your complaints and then we study all the facts and figures and if we think that your complaint is justified, we will reduce your assessment. If you think that they are not, then we can't. You will be notified one way or the other. MR. HEUSER: This is yours, sir. You will hear from us. MR. MANERAL: Does anyone else have any questions they would like to ask MR. Plackis? No. 6A, 6B and 6C. Mr. Frederick Gardiner and others. MR. HEUSER: Okay, we are going back to this other application now. MRS. SCHWICKER: A, B, and C. MR. MANERAL: Mel, we don' t have cards for Louis Sachs. We don 't have the cards for these other two. We only have them for Gardiner. MRS. SCHWICKER: Ted, this is 6A we are working on now? MR. MANERAL: We' ll number these for our own purposes. How do you want to do it. MRS. SCHWICKER: 6A, 6B and 6C. MR. MANERAL: Okay. MR. HEUSER: 6A, Frederick W. Gardiner and wife. What is your reason for this reduction? MR. MANERAL: They say inequality and overvaluation. MRS . LYTLE: You are back to A again. MR. HEUSER: Right. Towh of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 21 MR. MANERAL: Mr. Gardiner was sworn in before so we don 't have to do it again. MR. HEUSER: Mr. GArinder is not here. These people are representing him. MRS. SACHS: On the tax rolls it shows that there are four owners. We are two of them. MR. SACHS : The four owners are my wife 's brother Fred Gardiner and his wife and us. MRS. SCHWICKER: These people have not been sworn .in so I would like to do it no. Mrs. Schwicker swore in the Sachs. MR. SACHS: I am trying to base it on all of the :information I was able to get from the gentlemen in the assessors office . They go by square foot. Another one tells me they go by the cost of construction during the years of 1960 to 1968. MR. HEUSER: All of those factors are involved. MR. SACHS: Then they gave me a multiplier. So I will ask you a question. Can you tell me according to the tax rate, what do you feel the value of the property is. Because I don't know. MR. MANERAL: Sir, you can 't ask that question. We are only , , , , , MR. SACHS: Where did you get that cared, I have never seen it. MR. HEUSER: That is public property, sir. MRS. SACHS: We called the assessors office to come and appraise this and then we never heard anything from them. MR. SACHS: They never returned my call to make an appointment. MR. MANERAL: Who was the gentleman? MR. SACHS: Mr. Moisa. MR. SACHS: The only question I have is that they gave me a book and it says you have to use your equalization rate to find out the value of your land. If I know what the equalization rate is, I have never been able to get it. That book says 20 percent. MRS . LYTLE: We don' t use the equalization rate, we use 25%. MR. SACHS: 25 percent. MR. HEUSER: That is the local rate . MRS. LYTLE: It is our right as a Town to use that rate. It makes it much simplier and everyone is assessed at that rate . Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 22 MR. SACHS: If I take 25% I use the multiplier of the number 4. MRS . SCHWICKER: That' s right. MR. SACHS: What would I multiply by 4? MRS SCHWICKER: Your assess valuation. MRS . LYTLE: Which is based on the 1965 . . . . MR. SACHS: My total assessed valuation is $4 , 300.0.0 . So if I multiply that by 4 I get $17,200 . 00, right? MRS. LYTLE: That article in the newspaper threw everyone off. Why do they have to print that? MRS. SACHS: He was confused enough already. MRS. LYTLE: Don' pay any attention to that. MRS . SACHS: We have our tax receipts. That is what we used. MR. SACHS: What was the land value the year that I purchased it? I purchased the buildings for $10 , 000 . 00, which was the appraised value at the time. If I used the multiplier I would get a rate of $16 ,000 .00 so now I can fill in my form a little more intelligently on being assessed on a rate $6, 000. 00 above the market value. MR. HEUSER: If your assess valuation is $4,300 tax base. What is the assessed valuation? MRS. LYTLE: 25 percent of that? MR. HEUSER: That is what I figure. $17, 300. 00. The only thing is that those taxes have not been raised in 11 years. MRS. SACHS: They should have been lowered. MRS. LYTLE: You have had a break. MRS . SACHS: It was owned by two women over 65 also. So they would have been getting a tax break also. MR. HEUSER: The purchase price has nothing to do with the assessed valuation. The people here before got their house for nothing. MRS. SACHS: Could you tell me the last time an assessor was down to look at the house? MR. HUESER: In 1968. The last time was May 25 , 1979.. MRS. SACHS: Some one did go down then? MR: HEUSER: But they did not disturb your assessed valuation. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 23 MRS. SACHS: They left it with same way? MR. HEUSER: Exactly the same . MR. MANERAL: The taxes may have gone up due to the tax rate of the school or town. MR. HEUSER: Your assessed valuation has not gone up. MR. SACHS: I am trying to establish what value they are using. MR. HEUSER: Again, I have to answer you evasively. What you paid for that property is not always a true value . MR. SACHS: The value of the property is 6 times the income. The income was $70 . 00 per month for one store and the other store was $90. 00. So that makes $160. 00 times 10 or $1,600 . 00 times 320. 00 which would make it approximately $1, 800. 00 and change . MK. HEUSER: That' s right. MRS. LYTLE: But the value of the property is not based on income. He might have a high rate of income or a low one. MR. MANERAL: You are asking us to reduce your assessment and the assessment has not been raised for 11 years. MR. HEUSER: Frankly, you case is entirely different from most of the people in Greenport whose assessments went up. MR. SACHS : At the time when the building was left for 5 years to deteriorate and then I took it over from a couple of old women. I took it over at a lower rate. it should have been reduced at that time. MR. HEUSER: Did the property value go down? MR. SACHS: It changed hands.. MR. HEUSER: It changed hands in 1976 . MR. SCHWICKER: Had it depreciated during that time? MR. MANERAL: We can only work on this year. MRS. SCHWICKER: Wait a minute. He has two parcels on this one form. Which one do you want reduced? There is a 207 and a 209 for the address. MR. SACHS: This is not two parcels. It is two stores in one building. MR. HEUSER: Give me the one with Gardiner and Sachs on it. MR. SACHS : If you are familiar with Greenport it is Vail' s Camers Shop and the Barber shop. MR. MANERAL: Our problem seems to be moot. If the tax base has not changed in 11 years, we are only listening to complaints from people whose Town of Southold _ Grievance Day - Page 24 tax base has changed for this year. We are not by law legally allowed to go back beyond a year. Because it should have been done before this year. That is all we can handle. MRS. SACHS: In other words. . .We are asking for tax relief on three pieces of property that cannot be granted by this Board. MR. MANERAL: That' s right. We have nothing to do with tax relief. We only deal with the review of your assessment. Your assessment has not changed. MR. SACHS: The gentlemen told us we had to come .in here to get the assessment reduced. When I buy a house for $6 ,000 .00 or $7,000 .00 you can be sure that the house is useless and I am buying .it for the value of the land. MR. MANERAL: You say it is over evaluation. You have checked off two places: inequality and overvaluation. The assessment has not changed. Now we don 't know anything about your taxes . This Board has nothing to do with that. All you have is your valuation, and there has been no change this year, and so you have no claim for this year. MR. SACHS: Now, if someone changes it next year, we can come back here? MR. MANERAL: That' s right. Then you have a legitimate complaint. MRS. SACHS: So this is grievance day only if you have had an increase in assessment? MR. MANERAL: That' s right. This is only a Board of Assessment Review. MR. SACHS: So the gentleman in the other room did not give us the right information. MRS. SACHS: Now, if I walk outside, where do I go to look at these particular cards that have pictures? MR. HEUSER: Right in the tax office. MR. SACHS: All of the cards are right at this desk now MRS. SACHS: I mean later on. MR. HEUSER: At a later date you go to the assessors office . MR. MANERAL: I'm sorry we cannot help you. MRS. SACHS: This is what we are here for. Now we are finding out. MR. HEUSER: Let me see the other cards. See, we are right in the same predicament. The assessment is the same as it was in 1964 . Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 25 MRS. SACHS: Let me ask one more question. When a piece of property changes hands, no one goes and looks at it? You would not know this be- cause you are not assessors. MR. MANERAL: We have no control over what the assessors do. All three - NO ACTION. No. 7 - Raymond Joseph Kenney MR. MANERAL: Your assessment has not changed? MR. KENNEY: My assessment was reduced, but on the rolls of 1978-79 but as I explained to Mr. Watts, the tax assessor, I have been paying taxes on a house that was assessed with a full cellar. MR. HEUSER; Excuse me, I need the card for Louis Sachs for application No. 6C. MR. MANERAL: 6A is Gardiner. You have them both there. MR. HEUSER: Okay, go ahead. MR. MANEARAL: Now, Mr. Kenney you were sworn in before so you do not have to be sworn in again. MR. HEUSER: We are back to Mr. Kenney? MR. MANERAL: He is. No. 7. Your assessment has not been changed and there is not a thing we can do for you. We are strapped within a one year situation. If your assessment went up then you would come in and ask for a relief. If it goes beyond one year there is not anything we can do to help you. MR. KENNEY: I can't get any relief. MR. HEUSER: You can get if for one year. Right, Mabel? MRS. LYTLE: Right. MR. HEUSER: You appeal to the tax assessors office and if they think it is justified they will not give you a refund, but they will give you a credit on the ensuing year' s taxes. MR. KENNEY: In other words, the rest of the money is down the drain? that I have paid? MR. MANERAL: It was for a good cause. MRS. LYTLE: What was the basis on which he wanted the reduction? MR. HEUSER: Crawl space versus full cellar. MR. KENNEY: Houses with full cellars have higher taxes -.' Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 26 MR. HEUSER: Not higher tax base, higher tax assessement. MRS. LYTLE: We have no control over an error like that. MR. MANERAL: I think Mr. Kenney your recourse is with the assessors. You can see if someone will come down and double check that the mistake has been corrected for you. That is the only way it can be handled. MR. KENNEY: I has already been changed. You can see that by looking at the card. They don' t have to come down, they know their error. MRS . SCHWICKER: It is written on the card, error. FIRS. LYTLE: Did they bhange the rate? MR. KENNEY: They gave me a reduction of $300. 00 MRS . LYTLE: When was that done? MR. HEUSER: 1978. MR. KENNEY: The 1978-79 rolls. MR. MANERAL: Which is this roll. MRS . LYTLE: Before the rolls were closed? MR. HEUSER: February 28, 1978. MR. KENNEY: As of the 1978-79 tax rolls. MRS LYTLE: What does he want from us now? MR. KENNEY: This is the wrong place to go for what I want. MR. MANERAL: I 'm not sure at this point. MRS. LYTLE: What is it you want? MR. KENNEY: I want a refund for the taxes from 1966 to 1977. MR. HEUSER: You will not get it for more than one year, sir. MR. KENNEY: Okay. MR. HEUSER: If, at all. MR. MANERAL: Mabel, you started to say something. MR. LYTLE: There seems to be a question in my mind and I may be all wrong. If they corrected the error. MR. MANERAL: They corrected the assessment and there was an error. . Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 27 MRS. LYTLE: But he had been assessed for that amount prior to the change? MR. MANERAL: Yes. MR. HEUSER: It was raised in 1972 from $7, 200 as the assessmeht to $7, 500 . 00 . In 1978, it was reduced to $7,200 . 00. Now, Mr. Kenney feels as though he is entitled to a refund. I don 't know if he can go back before 1978 . MR. MANERAL: Does this Board have jurisdication over that? MR. HEUSER: Only informative. MR. KENNEY: I just spoke to Mr. Watts. He says he could give me a credit for one year for the 1980-81 taxes and reduce it to $6 ,900 .00 for one year. Then it would revert back to an assessment of $7,200 . 00. MR. HEUSER: That' right. You get one year' s refund. MR. KENNEY: T wnii d get two years. I am getting $300. 00 for 78 and 79 , and then it would be reduced $300. 00 in 1980 and 81. MRS . LYTLE: That way you are getting an equivalent of three years. MR.HEUSER: Two years. They reduced his assessment for 1978-79 . MRS. LYTLE: Then 79-80 will be two years. The 1980-81 will be three years. MR. HEUSER: NO, they did not give him a credit for 1978-79 . You misunderstood. They reduced his assessment in the amount of $300. 00 . The gentlemen wants another' s year relief. MR. KENNEY: In other words, I really came to the wrong Board? MR. HEUSER: Not necessarily. MR. MANERAL: We can help you with some information. MRS . SCHWICKER: Can I have that card for a moment, please? MR. MANERAL: We keep this application. MR. KENNEY: So I should go to Mr. Watts to get this straightened out? MR. MANERAL: Yes. MRS. SCHWICKER: The cards have to stay with the papers, legally. MRS . LYTLE: I 've got a question. Just for my own information. That case was an error. An error in the past cannot be corrected by this Board Town of Southold • . Grievance Day - Page 28 MR. KENNEY: Will I get word about the decision. MR. MANERAL: You will be notified by mail. MRS. LYTLE: We have corrected errors in the past after they have been proved. When the error was corrected it was for three years. MR: HEUSER: That is up to the tax office . We will check that later. MRS. LYTLE: The point is the tax office had nothing to do with it. The Chairman called a recess at 10 : 40 A.M. and reconvened at 10 : 50 A.M. No. 10 - Martin Henry Garrell and Janet Wendel Garrell, 20505 Main Road, Mattituck, New York (RR #1, Box 105B) . MRS. SCHWICKER swore in Mr. and Mrs. Garrell. MRS. GARRELL: The second form was necessary because it was not clear what was necessary to file to cover our particular situation. MR. GARRELL: We noticed the assessment was raised from $4, 700 to $5 , 100. 00 within the last year. There have been absolutely no changes ' to the house or property in that period of time from 1978 to 1979 . MRS. GARRELL: The house was, the way I understand it, reassessed when we purchased it in 1975, after it had been rehabilitated. Since then we have done nothing to the property. Nothing to the house actually, either. MR. MANERAL: Have you added anything to the property? MRS. GARRELL: No, the house is in its original condition. There is really no reason to give us the additional $400. 00 of assessment. MRS. LYTLE: Do we have a picture? Does it show anything? MR. HEUSER: No, nothing. MRS. GARRELL: We bought this in August, 1975 . It had been exten- sively overhauled prior to that date . I think that is reflected on your records . MR. GARRELL: Mr Watts informed us that landscaping changes and cosmetic changes do not reflect in your assessment. MR. MANERAL: That' s true. MRS. GARRELL: I think the place looks better than it has in previous years. MR. HEUSER: Somebody in your family has a European background. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 29 MR. GARRET_L: No we worked in Europe for a couple of years. MRS. GARRELL: If you don' t do that in Europe they think your sevens are ones and makes a terrible problem. MR. HEUSER: Your market value you feel is $2, 500 . 00 less than what you paid for it? MR. GARRELL: Again, there is that confusion. If you use the 12. 28 figures, or if you multiple your assessment by 4 times, you should get around the number of the full market value . MR. HEUSER: To determine your full market value in relationship to what you paid for it unless there is a- lot of depreciation involved. MR. GARRELL: It is a problem with old houses. You have to give them some type of figure on depreciation. I believe Mr. Watts was using 25%. MR. HEUSER: Yes, you do have a 25% depreciation on your house . Excuse me, it is based on footage . When they want to give you a depreciation break---they- take a percentage of your square footage and reduce the footage. That footage determines your value. MR. GARRELL: It is complex. I notice you do it on square footage rather than. . . . . MR. HEUSER: It is very important. Two different claimants have come in and the neighbor next door to me has a house bigger than mine and I am assessed $400. 00 higher. We get the cards, we find out he has 400 more square feet of living room in his house. MRS. GARRELL: In our case I don't think it applies because there is nothing similar in our neighborhood. MR. HEUSER: Do you have anyone you wish us to compare with? It' s your privilege. MRS. GARRELL: I cannot think of anyone. The only question we have is why was it arbitrarily raised this year? MR. HEUSER: The only reason it was raised is because it was the first time the house had been re-assessed since 1975, and they possibly thought there was more value in your house . MRS. GARRELL: You mean that by just looking at it they feel it is more valuable than it was in 1975? Can you do that? It seems to me not. MR. HEUSER: They can do anything they want. MRS. GARRELL: Now wait a minute . They do have rules and regulations. I had understood that the assessments were based on changes or things that were done to the house . Somebody cannot go by the house after 3-1/2 or 4 Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 30 years and say "Hey, it looks like it is worth more this year than last year. " MR. GARRELL: If the other assessments in the area had gone up 25% and I assume that when you go to full value assessment in a couple of years, you will probably pack the room by the time you get through. If everyone had gone up 25%, we would have said, okay, at least we are not alone. When all of a sudden you move up in a given year when there are no changes at all, that is really what brought us down here . MR. HEUSER: Okay, but the statement I should have made before was Greenport was not reassessed in many years since 1954. MRS. GARRELL: That is the point we are making about our house . It was assessed recently. MR. HEUSER: In 1975 . MRS . GARRELL: When there were real changes made, I can see that. I cannot see having it raised again in 4 years when nothing has been done. If it had been assessed 10 or 15 years ago, I can see looking at it again. Basically, it is the same house, and it has depreciated over that last 4 years. It hasn' t been painted. I don' t believe that the market value, especially for a house that age has gone up that much. MRS. SCHWICKER: Could you pass down the property card and the form? MRS . GARRELL: We had a terrible time getting a mortgage on a house of this age. They just don' t want to lend money for this type of house. MR. HEUSER: But you did get a $30 , 000. 00 mortgage. MRS. GARRELL: That was the fourth bank we went to. We had to put down quite a large down payment. MR. MANERAL: We ' ll give this our full review. We' ll ignore the other form. - MR. GARRELL: Ignore the one that I sent through the mail. That other one had something on illegality which was incorrect. MRS. SCHWICKER: There was a' reassessment just before it was sole in 1975 . No. 11A- Regens International Corporation, North Road, Greenport, New York. HELENE SCHMIDT: I am representing myself. But I am an officer of the corporation Regens Internation Corporation. MRS . SCHWICKER: Okay, Helen Schmidt representing Regens International Town of Southold . Grievance Day - Page 31 Corporation. Mrs. Schwicker administered the Oath to Mrs. Schmidt. MR. HEUSER: Do you have the cards? MR. MANERAL: They have not given us the right cards. MRS. LYTLE: Is there a question here? MR. MANERAL: They were right there, but they walked out. MR. WATTS: That's in Orient. MR. HEUSER: Let' s take the other one while we are waiting. No. 11B - Helen J. Schmidt, North Road, Greenport, New York MRS . CONROY: We are going to have to speak up due to that fan. MR. MANERAL: Could you speak a little louder because we put a fan back here. MRS . SCHMIDT: I own that summer cottage . MR. -HEUSER: You have the card over there. MRS . SCHWICKER: No, waif a minute . MRS. LYTLE: A cottage where? MRS. SCHMIDT: Gardiner' s Bay Estates, East Marion, New York. MR. HEUSER: You are calling this a cottage? That is Helene J. Schmidt. MRS. SCHMIDT: That is my permanent home. This is not the cottage . MR. HEUSER: Oh, you are questioning your summer cottage? MRS. SCHMIDT: Right. MR. HEUSER: Henry, I mean Charlie . This is the wrong card for this. We want the cottage that is in Gardiner' s Bay Estates in East Marion. MR. WATTS: Oh, okay. What lot is it please? MR. MANERAL: We can go back to 11A if you want. MR. HEUSER: Regens International is the cottage? MRS. SCHMIDT: No, Orient Bay House is Regens International. This is one of the cottages of the Bay house. This is one of the cottages of the Bay House, but it is not the one I am questioning. MR. HEUSER: Excuse my interruption. There is a form here for Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 32 Regens International Corporation. MRS . SCHMIDT: May I interrupt? King owned the big hotel and 4 cottages and we purchased this with business money and that is why we put it in the name of Regens International Corporation. It doesn' t exist any more, it is just a holding company of the family. The house or Hotel as such was assessed for $4, 500. 00 . MR. HEUSER: Excuse the interruption, we have something different here. MRS . SCHMIDT: It is just oneof the cottages. We are questioning the hotel. You see there is the Bay House, Edgewater. These cottages are on the seashore . The hotel is on the road. MR. HEUSER: You are not questioning the cottages? MRS. SCHMIDT: I should, but I don 't. It will only confuse the matter. MR. HEUSER: All right. MRS. SCHMIDT: This is the cottage in Gardiner' s Bay Estates. MR. HEUSER: This is the one you are questioning? MRS. SCHMIDT. There are two applications. MRS . CONROY: Mr. Heuser that card you have in your right hand as application No. 12 . Mrs. Schmidt is talking about the Orient property. MR. HEUSER: Okay, what is the connection between that and this form here? MRS. CONROY: This is one of the cottages that is a part of the Regens International Corporation that she is talking about. She must have gotten a re-assessment on this cottage. MRS. SCHMIDT: No, on the large hotel building. MRS . CONROY: This card does not have the large hotel on it. MRS. LYTLE: Then that does not concern us at all? MR. HEUSER: Right. MRS. CONROY: Charlie, they need the card for the large hotel. MR. HEUSER: This claim has to do with the motel, Mel. MR. KELSEY: The Regens International Corp? MR. HEUSER: Yes. MR. KELSEY: Okay, I know where they mean. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 33 MR. MANERAL: Okay, let' s go back to 11B while we are waiting. No. 11-B - Helene Schmidt, North Road, Greenport, New York. (Property in Gardiner' s Bay Estates, East Marion, New York) . MR. HEUSER: On this application, what is your complaint? MRS. SCHMIDT: I have a much smaller lot than my neighbors. The neighbors have an all year round house, much more elaborate . Neither one has receive a re-assessment. But I have been raised how much? PIR. SCHMIDT: $600. 00 . - 170 MR. MANERAL: Do you have heat in your house? Could you live there in the winter? MR. SCHMIDT: No. MRS. SCHMIDT: We have heaters for the summer if it gets a chilly day. It is one of those wooden houses and the wind goes through. MR. SCHMIDT: It is not insulated. MR. MANERAL: You mean you have an air-conditioned house in the summer? MRS . SCHMIDT: No. It is pretty hot in the summer. It is a summer cottage. The boys use it for vacation. MR. HEUSER: We have to ask you for the piece of property that you claim has not been raised that is comparable to your property. MRS . SCHMIDT: My next door neighbor. Fred Terwilliger. MR. HEUSER: We will have to get that card. MR. MANERAL: I want to get Charlie 's eye . I don 't know why they are hiding out there? MR. HEUSER: It is more comfortable out there. MRS. SCHWICKER: What is the other property on the other side of you? MR. HEUSER: Could you get us Terwilliger on the North Road in Greenport. MRS. SCHMIDT: No it is on Cedar Lane, Gardiner' s Bay Estates. Right next door. MR. HEUSER: I took the North Road because it is on the form here . Oh, that is your post office address. They didn' t come in with the Regens International card either, did they? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 34 MR. MANERAL: Here comes Mel now. MR. HEUSER: Terwilliger, that' s right. But someone is looking for the Regens International Corporation. MR. KELSEY: It must be here . MR. MANERAL: No, we don' t have the hotel. MR. -KELSEY: The big three story building. It is out of the files. MR. MANERAL: I'm sorry, here it is. They were stuck together. MR. HEUSER: Are we going to stay here on Helen Schmidt. Here' s Terwilliger. I might mention to you that Terwilliger was raised. MRS. SCHMIDT: How much was it raised? MR. HEUSER: $400 . 00 . MRS. SCHMIDT: $400. 00 and mine? I was raised $600. 00 and he has a much larger lot and more elaborate house. MR. MANERAL: The lot would not make any difference . They would not change that. It would just be the house . MRS . SCHMIDT: But the house is an all year round house. MR. HEUSER: Do you know that you have more living square footage in your house than he has. You have more living area than he has. MRS . SCHMIDT: No, you mean the footage? MHS. SCHWICKER: Square footage of inside area. MR. HEUSER: He has 3, 560 square feet of living space, and you have 4, 100 square feet of living space. MR. SCHMIDT: He has a solid house, and we have a shell. MR. HEUSER: Okay. Let' s get back to you. He has one bath and you have 1-1/2 baths. MRS . SCHMIDT: That's right. We have a toilet there. MR. HEUSER: You have a full basement, and he has a partial basement. You have asbestos shingles, and he has wood shingles. He has a fire place and so do you. You have forced air heat, and he just has "yes" for heat. MR. SCHMIDT: He has oil heat. MR. HEUSER: So basically, the rate of the increase is in line. MRS. SCHMIDT: It is in line? MR. SCHMIDT: We just have a shell of a house . Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 35 MRS. SCHMIDT: We wanted to convert the house several times and we had people look at it who told us we could not convert the house without spending at least $40, 000 or $50, 000 to make it possible . MR. SCHMIDT: That was 10 years ago. MR. HEUSER: Neither of these properties were re-assessed for 12 years. MRS . SCHMIDT: Iri East Marion? MR. SCHMIDT: We didn 't do anything. MR. HEUSER: It doesn' t make any difference . Your property value has increased in 12 years. That is the reason you people are getting increased valuations right now. MR. SCHMIDT: Other people don 't get it. MR. HEUSER: The other people you mentioned did get it. MR. SCHMIDT: Oh, they did. MR. HEUSER: So this is one of those things that we will have to de- bate and give you an answer on. MR. MANERAL: We will give it a complete review when we go over everything. MRS . LYTLE: This is No. 11B? I thought we were working on 11A. No. 11A- Regens International Corporation, North Road, Greenport, New York (Bay House Property, Village Lane, Orient, New York) MRS. SCHMIDT: This hotel is part of parcel which originally belonged to Mr. King which we purchased the hotel and 4 cottages . We tried to sell it several times, and the builder told us it has deteriorated to the point where how can you put value on it? That is why there is no value on the application. The back would have to be completely torn away because it is a shack. It has rotted away. The Board of Health inspected it and said that as long as we don ' t use it for living quarters for anybody, they would let it pass. MR. MANERAL: Do you have that statement from the Board of Health? MRS. SCHMIDT: No, I do not, but it cannot be used. MR. MANERAL: Why don't you ask them to put it in writing for you? MRS. SCHMIDT: I do. MR: MANERAL: We would like to see a letter such as that. That would enhance your argument. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Pagd 36 MRS . SCHMIDT: Mr. Floyd King who insures it said not to have it insured, because it was not worth it. MRS . SCHWICKER: You have no insurance on this dwblling? MRS . SCHMIDT: No, none at all. MRS. SCHWICKER: No fire insurance? MR. HEUSER: How can you rent it? MRS SCHMIDT: We don' t. We have only 4 hotel rooms. MR. HEUSER: You have summer rental here. MRS . SCHMIDT: Yes, only 4 hotel rooms. MR. HEUSER: Are they in this building? MRS. SCHMIDT: Only the ones near the bathroom because the- Board of Health does not permit renting the other apartment because of a fire hazard. MR. MANERAL: May I ask you to do one thing? Would you please get in touch with the Board of Health, have them give you a letter of that fact, and ask Mr. King your insurance broker to send you a statement which you can provide us that the building is uninsurable . MRS. SCHMIDT: Uninsurable is not the point. He said that the cost would be so high that it would not be worth it. MR. MANERAL: Just get a letter from him saying that. Just have him say that the place is over-assessed. You send them to the Board here. MRS. LYTLE: Please do it within the next week. MRS . SCHWICKER: We have to have this information before we make our decision. If we get them afterwards , it will not help you. MRS . SCHMIDT: The former owners of the main property. Mr. King rented that once as a hotel . MR. MANERAL: If you can get that information to us, it will help us in making our decision. MRS. SCHMIDT: Our neighbors names are Martinson and Gillolly. ' MR. SCHMIDT: What happens if you do not get it in time? MR.MANERAL: Then we will make our decision on what you have told us. MRS. SCHWICKER: Who ever you got in touch with before, get in touch with them again and have him give you a letter. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day Page 37 MRS . LYTLE: A telephone call is of no use to us. MRS. SCHWICKER: Have them state that no one can reside in this building or whatever. If the insurance agent says that it is uninsurable? MRS . SCHMIDT: It is insurable, but it would cost too much. MR. MANERAL: See if you can get us those two statements to us within the week. Maybe it would be better if you brought them in in person. No. 12 - Frank and Karen Costello, Box 224 , Cutchogue, New York (property at 970 Little Neck Road, Cutchogue, New York). MRS. SCHWICKER swore in Frank Costello. MR. MANERAL: We have his card and his application. MR. COSTELLO: I have also submitted an original and copy of a letter. MRS . LYTLE: Are you Frank Costello from the boat shop? MR. COSTELLO: Yes, I am. MRS. LYTLE: I know you. MR. COSTELLO: Yes, you know me. MRS. LYTLE: I will withdraw from this application. So there will be no question. MR. COSTELLO: I have no objection to her staying. MRS . LYTLE: Okay, I will stay on so there will be no difficulty. I have nothing against the gentlemen, except that I know him. You see they said it would make an even numbered board. MRS . SCHWICKER: There should be an uneven number on the Board at all times. It was brought up last year. MR. COSTELLO: I ' ll sit in her place and then vote for myself. MRS . LYTLE: I' ll sit so there will be no problems. I don' t think I' ll be prejudice. MRS. SCHWICKER Swore in Mr. Costello. MR. COSTELLO: I think the letter adequately covers the statements on the form. If you go down Little Neck properties you will notice two lots on woods which are the same rate as mine . Three of my neighbors are the same rate . All have bigger houses. We are specifically discussing property. All have major improvements, landscaped, fences, pools. Their Complete acre is landscaped. MR. HEUSER: Are they all full acres, sir. MR. COSTELLO: Yes . Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 38 MR. HEUSER: Every one in equal in size? MR. COSTELLO: Yes sir. About 30% of mine is in its natural terrain. The first two neighbors Bruce and Markett have landscaped the entire property. Both have much nicer driveways. One has a black topped with a creosote top, and the other one has blue stone. I have clam shells. Purely a monetary necessity. They spend much more time landscaping their land than I do. I don' t see how it would be fair that their homes are assessed the same as mine. MR. MANERAL: What insurance do you have on your property? MR. COSTELLO: I could not say for sure. I would say somewhere in the $35 ,000. 00 area. I could find out. MR. MANERAL: That' s all right. Just to give us some idea. MR. COSTELLO: We are just discussing the land here . MR. MANERAL: You are just asking for land value? MR. COSTELLO: That' s all. I was reassessed $200. 00 on my land. I don 't like the house assessment, but we 're not discussing that. When I bought this I was led to believe that the property cost was $10, 000 . 00. MR. WEINHEIMER: Then you built your house on the property? MR. COSTELLO: Yes. MR. MANERAL: Just one question. MR. COSTELLO: According to George Ahlers who built the house it was $35 ,900. 00. That is a copy of the contract. It was signed in December, 1970. MR. MANERAL: There were no cost overrides? MR. COSTELLO: Maybe on the copy of the final bill. MRS. SCHWICKER: What do you believe you could sell your house for Mr. Costello? What is your market value? MR. COSTELLO: Of my home? MRS. SCHWICKER: Home and land. MR. WEINHEIMER: If you were to sell your house and property right now, what would you sell it for? MR. COSTELLO: $38,000. 00 maybe . MR. WEINHEIMER: What would you pay for the next door neighbor ' s property? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 39 MR. COSTELLO: What would I pay. I would pay him $11,000 . 00. The next door neighbor' s land has been for sale for 5 or 6 years: This is what I would pay him. What he wants has nothing to do with reality. MR. HEUSER: This is a simple one. MR. COSTELLO; I hope so. If you were to send the assessors down to have a look at the other people and the improvements they have made, you will see it is reasonable . MR. MANERAL: We have no control over the assessors. MR. COSTELLO: What do you control? MR. MANERAL: The only thing we do is listen to your complaint and arrive at a decision. MR. COSTELLO: If you would like to take a ride, I will take you. MR. MANERAL: We don 't do that. We are very regulated as to what we can do. MR. COSTELLO: I hope not. I have already spent two and one half hours here . MRS . SCHWICKER: When I asked you what you thought the market value of your property was your said $38,000. 00. The house alone? Or was this for the house and property? MR. COSTELLO: House and property together. The property alone is worth $11, 000. 00 . MR. WEINHEIMER: What would you value the house without the property? MR. COSTELLO: The house and the property were bought as a package arrangement. It was a total of $37 ,000 . 00 . MR. MANERAL: Are there any other questions that anyone would like to ask Mr. Costello? Thank you very much. We 'll get in touch with you by mail. No. 13 - John and Lorraine Fabry Box 89A, 3700 Deephole Drive, Mattituck, New York. MRS . SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mrs. Fabry. I will have to refrain from any conversation on this application as Mrs. Fabry is a neighbor of mine. MR. MANERAL: You are applying under overvaluation? MR. HEUSER: Overvaluation. I think I can explain this in very short order and be of help to you. Your assessment in the previous year 1978 was a partial assessment. The house was not completed. Town of Southold • . Grievance Day - Page 40 MRS. FABRY: They assessed that on the 28th of April. We did not have our Co until June . We waited almost two weeks. What did they think they did in two weeks time? MR. HEUSER: The 28th of April? MRS . FABRY: That is what they told me when I was down there . MR. HEUSER: Building permit so and so. Building partially finished. MRS. FABRY: When I came down last year when you had your office in this room when the tax bill read partial assessment, I questioned it.' They told me it was because my attic wasn' t finished and they would check me every year until the attic is finished. Well the attic is still not finished. We haven' t done anything to the attic. MR. HEUSER: Someone thought you did. MRS. FABRY: Because when I went to the office to file my application. They do not understand why I was reassessed. The card stated that the attic had not been completed. MR. MANERAL: You are stating now that the building is not complete? MRS. FABRY: The attic is not complete, but the living quarters are. MR. -HEUSER: Charlie we have the same problem here that we had in the Mattituck area. These folks were reassses in April 28; 1979. Building partly finished. Since then the attic still has notbeen finished, but the building assessment has been incrdased $1,200. 00. MRS. FABRY: We went to closing early in June . We waited almost 2 weeks for the Certificate of Occupancy which was issued on June 2. During that period of time I don' t understand what they feel was completed. The floors had to be sanded, painting. Minor things I would say. MR. HEUSER: The attic has never been completed. MR.MANERAL: Let' s listen to what Mr. Watts has to say. MR. WATTS: The attic still has not been completed. We have a $600 completion figure . At the time we looked at it, which was 12/14/78, we deemed it wasn't finished. Consequently, we left this $600 of assessment off until completion. MR. HEUSER: The lady is raising the question now as to why it was increased $1200. MR.--MANERAL: From April to December of 1978. MR. WATTS : At the time we looked at it on April 28, 1978, we figured that was the amount done on it. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 41 MRS . FABRY: But there is no itemized of what wasn' t done? MR. WATTS: At that time we had $1200 for completion. I think you can see that we originally had $1800 for completion. So we left $600 for completion. MR.--HEUSER: And you increased them $1200? MR. WATTS: Right. We had an $1800 completion here . On the 28th of April, 1978, when we looked at it, we had an $1800 figure for completion to bring the total assessment to $6800 if it was complete. We considered that the upstairs was not completed as far as we were concerned so we put $600 for the completion of the upstairs. MR. MANERAL: So if I read you correctly, what you are saying that when they complete the attic, it will go up $600. 00 more? MR. WATTS: Right. It will go to $6800 when the attic is completed. So the total will be $7400. MR. MANERAL: You think that $1200 worth of assessment had been done to the building from April, 1978 to December, 1978? MR. WATTS: Right. MR. MANERAL: When it is completed there will be an additional $600 worth of assessment? MR. WATTS: Right. MR. MANERAL: Okay, thanks very much. MRS. FABRY: I would like to know what the feel was completed and what wasn' t completed at that time. June 2, 1978, everything was completed so we could move in. We waited almost two weeks for that CO. MR. MANERAL: Would you speak through me . We don' t want you to get into an argument with the assessor. MRS . FABRY: Oh, I'm sorry. What I 'm saying is. MR. MANERAL: Can you follow this. This is what he explained to us. They visited your place on this date and they figured that $5,900 worth of assessed valuation had been completed. Then they came back in December' 14, 1978, and they felt an additional $1200 worth of assessed valuation work had been completed in that 8 months. Now they figure if you finish your attic it will be worth an additional $600 assessment. That is their evaluation of what has been done to your house . Regardless of when you got your CO, their assessment went along as we showed you. MRS. FABRY: My point is how much more could have been done? How much more could have been done? The interior painting? The applicances were put in? By this time 4/28/78 any major plumbing, roofing and all the major parts of the home were installed by this time, They just had to ToWn of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 42 tidy the place up so we could move in. They made mention of nothing aside from the fact that the attic had not been completed. That was the only reason for the partial bill. MR. MANERAL: Mr. Watts, is there any explanation you can give to the lady' s question? MR. WATTS: Only that we do not go into the house when we inspect. We are not allowed unless we are invited. MR. MANERAL: That is the assessor' s explanation. We will take this into consideration when we make our decision. MR. HEUSER: I would like to ask something. It is your privilege that you let the assessor come in and look at the house. Do you want to call him in again. MR. MANERAL: Charlie . MRS. FABRY: One other thing. They say the school rate is ' based on the children. I pay school taxes yet my children are discriminated against during the summer and cannot take part in the summer program. MR. HEUSER: I don' t know. The lady has agreed that you may go down and go through the house . MR. WATTS: I cannot see any adjustments unless the attic is completed. If the attic is completed, then there will be an increase of $600.00. MR. MANERAL: You have an invitation to go down and inspect it. MR. HEUSER: I think it would be a good idea to put everyone ' s mind at ease. MR. WATTS: Fine . MR. HEUSER: You can make a date with the young lady. MRS. FABRY: We have no phone, so you will either have to tell me now, or mail me a card. MR. MANERAL: Does anyone else have any questions? Mrs. Fabry, do you have any questions? MRS. FABRY: Who do I go and protest to about the schooling? MR. MANERAL: Go to the principal ' s office in Mattituck. MRS. FABRY: Right, what is a couple of weeks out of the year. MR. MANERAL: There are problems and I am sure they will explain everything to you. Toi4n of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 43 No. 14 - William A. Penney, Jr. , Calves Neck Road, Box 1441, Southold, New York. MR. PENNEY: You quit at 12 o' clock. Do you want to go now and I will come back? MR. HEUSER: No, we have 15 minutes and we are going to take care of you by that time . MR. PENNEY: I hope so. MRS. SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Penney. MR. MANERAL: Do you have your application, Mr. Penney? MR. PENNEY: No, I gave it to the assessor. I just want to know one thing. Maybe we will not have to talk any further. When was my house assessed last? MR. HEUSER: 1973. MR. PENNEY: Okay, we have to talk. MR. MANERAL: There was no assessment change this year? MR. PENNEY: Now, talking to the assessors before coming here, they figured the upstairs 1184 square feet at $3. 75 a square foot. That was built in 1973 and done at that time . MR. HEUSER: Haw many feet did he say, sir? MR. PENNEY: 1184 . MR. HEUSER: That' s right 1194 . MR. PENNEY: Okay, that' s close enough. MR. MANERAL: This is for overvaluation? MRS. SCHWICKER: Right. MR. MANERAL: Go ahead. MR. PENNEY: That modification was put into the house in 1973. A permit was gotten at that time, and a man came through the house and assessed it. I checked with the past owner on this. That was all done and therefore reassessed at that time . Now I want to know why they are reassessing me again. MRS. SCHWICKER: This application is not complete. We cannot go any further. MR. WEINHEIMER: What is the full market value of the property? Town of Southold . • Grievance Day - Page 44 MR. PENNEY: I checked with the assessors. MR. MANERAL: The assessors have nothing to do with this. MR. PENNEY: Don' t know what the market value is? MRS. SCHWICKER: If you were to sell your house tomorrow, what would you sell it for? MR. PENNEY: Now listen, I have been sitting here listening, and I understand the assessment has nothing to do with what I sell it at or what I bought it at. MR. HEUSER: We did not say assessment, we asked market value. MR. PENNEY: I understand the assessed valuation has nothing to do with what I sell it for. MR. HEUSER: The young lady asked you for the market value. MR. PENNEY: What has that got to do with my assessed valuation? MR. HEUSER: It has a lot to do with it. MR. PENNEY: I overheard you say a while ago that the purchase price has nothing to do with the assessed value of the house. MR. HEUSER: That was a different subject. She was talking about a certain piece of property. We were discussing the relationship of a dif- ferent thing. All we want you to do is tell us how much you paid for that house. MR. PENNEY: That is on the records, I can tell you that. MR. MANERAL: It is necessary for us to have that portion of the form filled out. MR. PENNEY: Okay, this whole part? MR. MANERAL: You can sit right there at that table. MRS. SCHWICKER: Could I have the card there for a minutes please. MR. HEUSER: While he is doing that, we will start with No. 15 . No. 15 - Leon Gordon and Marion Gordon, 502 Wiggins Street, Greenport, New York. PATRICIA SWICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Gordon. MR. GORDON: I would like to make a little statement. Pschologically I understand the time and the hour. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 45 MR. HEUSER: We don 't worry about this MR. MANERAL: We are here to help you. MR. GORDON: I hope it will have no bearing on my application. MR. HEUSER: It will not. MR. GORDON: I'm just trying to put myself in your position it being a hot day and all. MR. HEUSER: We ' ll take care of you two gentlemen. , then we will eat. MR. MANERAL: This gentlemen is asking on the basis of overvaluation He has some statement here . Is there any statement you wish to make other than you have written here . MR. GORDON: I would like to have one more parcel added. I neglected to put it down. Across the street from me is a very large piece of property. The Davis property. It has a large, 2-1/2 family dwelling, and I would estimate that it has at least 4 times the amount of square footage that I have. Their evaluation is only $100 above mine. In my opinion, I am over- assessed. I have actually done research on 35 plots. For the brevity of your time, I brought it down to 14 parcels. I understand you are dealing with square footage . I also understand they took an enclosed porch on my dwelling into consideration as living space . To be perfectly truthful, an eskimo could not live there during the winter, and someone from the deepest part of Africa could not live there during the summer. That is a closed porch. All we have there is lawn furniture, bicyles and wagons. It is strictly a catch-all. The house to my right has have open porches about the same dimension. The previous owner closed this off. I feel using those dimensions as a living portion of the house makes it untrue square footage . MR. MANERAL: There is only one problem there. The assessors do not enter a person' s domicile . That is enclosed and becomes part of the house . How you use it is nobody' s business , you see . That is what makes it difficult . MR. GORDON: I think there are too many facets here by which the valuation is arrived at. This is my first opportunity here, and I hope it is my last. MR. HEUSER: You also have a 35% reduction in your footage for de- preciation. Your house has a square footage of 4400 square feet and they have allowed you 35% depreciation because of the age of your house . They are only assessing you for 2800 square feet of living space . MR. GORDON: How does that compare to some of the neighbors. MR. HEUSER: That will be our next question. You pick out one of these people and tell us, and we will get that person' s card for you. MR. MANERAL: You would like us to compare with whom? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 46 MR. GORDON: Can I have a minute to review this list? MR. HEUSER: Sure, go ahead. MR. PENNEY: Do you want me back? MR. MANERAL: Sure. No. 14 - William A. Penney, Jr. , Calves Neck Road, Southold, New York. MR. PENNEY: There are a cople of things here that I cannot answer. I don' t know when the mortgage was taken out, because I took over the mortgage from the seller. The percentage is 8% , but I'm not sure. MR. HEUSER: That' s all right. Will you tell the Chairman what your complaint is. MR. PENNEY: There have been no modifications on this house since 1973. The upstairs was made then and done then. The patio which they have reassessed was put pn in 1971. They re-appraised in 1973. TKey took the patio into consideration at that time . Why am I being arbitrarily put up when these were all assessed in 1973. MR. HEUSER: Because your property has not been reassessed for 6 years. Sometimes property goes up in value . MR PENNEY: Is everybody being reassessed? I looked at all of my neighbors, and they were not changed. MRS . LYTLE: Was he reassessed since 1971? MR. HEUSER: "Deck was not in computation at full assessment" it says here . Deck. MR. PENNEY: It is not a deck, sir. It is a patio. That is an error. It is a red brick patio. MR. MANERAL: It was not assessed at that time? MRS. LYTLE: It wasn' t reassessed if I understand what you are saying? MR. HEUSER: Where is the patio and what size is it? MR. PENNEY: The assessors say it is 304 square feet. It is outside the living room. You walk out the doors, and there is a red brick patio. It has been there since 1971. MR. MANERAL: What is the one you have marked "new"? MR. HEUSER: What is the size of the deck? 16 ' x 18 ' Extension 16 x 18 Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 47 MR. MANERAL: Let' s show Mr. Penney the card. MR. PENNEY: This is the living room that was put on before 1973. This is the original house. This was put on in 1971. In 1973 they put in a room upstairs in the attic. MRS. LYTLE: The property was not reassessed in 1971, was it? MR. HEUSER: It was reassessed in 1973. MR. PENNEY: The patio was there then. It was not there in 1971. MR. -HEUSER: The footage remains the same . MR. PENNEY: Nothing has been changed since 1973. MR. HEUSER: It way it looks now is that Mr. Penney who paid $69,000 . 00 for his property had a mortgage of $30, 000. 00 and has a cinder block foun- dation, full basement. MR. PENNEY: That is wrong also. There is not a full basement. MR. HEUSER: There has been a full basement ever since the start of taxing. The full basement is under the original house. MR. PENNEY: Okay, the extensions are all crawl spaces. MR. HEUSER: Fireplace, forced hot air heat, oak floors, one bath. The problem now is that we have to discuss with the assessors the increase. Well , we can' t make a decision now. From 1973 through 1979 . MR. PENNEY: If I compute the space correctly, the upstairs only has 400 square feet and they say there is over 1100 square feet. It was a double dormer, and they changed it. The stairs were already in the house. MR. HEUSER: You don' t mean 4 ,000? MR. PENNEY: Excuse me, 400 square feet. MR. MANERAL: When was that attic done/ MR. PENNEY: In 1973. When they got the building permit, it was reassessed. MR. MANERAL: That has nothing to do with the assessment that you got this year? MR. PENNEY: Coreect, but they told me that they pushed the assessment up because of the patio. 304 square feet at $. 25 per square foot. And they pushed up the assessment because of the 1184 square feet upstairs at $3 . 75 per foot. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 48 MR. HEUSER: 1184 square feet. They have the extension' upstairs, but that 344 square feet. The 1184 is down stairs. MR. PENNEY: I must have misunderstood him then. It was reassessed in 1973 and why they arbitrarily reassessed again now, I would like to know. MR. HEUSER: I would not say arbitrarily. MR. MANERAL: We agree on the amount of square footage, so there is no problem there. MR. HEUSER: Now, we get back to Mr. Gordon. No. 15 - Leon Gordon and Marion Gordon, 502 Wiggins Street, Greenport, New York. MR. GORDON: I 'm going to jump around a little bit. MR. MANERAL: Before we jump around, we are going to adjourn for lunch. What is the property you wish us to get a card out for? That 's important, because we have to send for it. MR. GORDON: In view of the fact that I have done such extensive research, I would humbly request that you pull two cards. MR. HEUSER: Tell me who they are . MR. GORDON: One would be the Robert Nugent property. The other would be the Martha Raynor property. MR. HEUSER: Where is the Martha Raynor house? MR. GORDON: She is on the first page here . MR. MOISA: Which would would you like? MR. HEUSER: Mrs. Martha Raynor property-and the Robert Nugent property. MR. GORDON: This is a copy. I can give it to him. They are number 3 and number 6. MR. MOISA: Are you on a break? MR. HEUSER: In a couple of minutes. MR. MOISA: Okay, I will get them. MR. GORDON: I have spoken with my neighbors. I have been candid with them and they have been candid with me . MRS. SCHWICKER: Are these the comparatives? MR. GORDON: Based on my discussion with my neighbors, no one I ToWn of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 49 have spoken have received an increase in valuation in this area. The area from which all of these parcels are taken from. This jump was more than 1/2 of the original assessment. MR. HEUSER: May I interject? When did you take this property over? MR. GORDON: In 1955 . MR. HEUSER: That' s right, and you have not been reassessed since then. MR. GORDON: I was unaware of this. MR. HEUSER: You have not been reassessed for 24 years. MR. GORDON: Let me ask you something else . How does that compare to the various properties I have indicated? MR. HEUSER: You must bear in mind sir that in 24 years your property sure as the devil has increased in value . MRS. SCHWICKER: When was the last time he was reassessed. MR. HEUSER: 1955 . MRS . SCHWICKER: Okay, this one card Raynor is 1960 . MR. MANERAL: Raynor was raised $200. 00 . MR. GORDON: There is still a big difference there. MRS. SCHWICKER: This other one was reassessed in 1979 , for $600. 00 . MR. GORDON: That is also a very big difference. MR. MANERAL: When did you buy this property? MR. GORDON: 1955. MR. HEUSER: We have to accept that figure as being in 1955. MR. GORDON: I would like to further say that the size of the property we are dealing with. I probably own the smallest lot. The lots to my right are equal, but of all of the 35 lots which I have investigated, there was none anywhere near the size in square footage . I have a small piece of property. I have only 10 feet from the side of my house to the line on either side of me . MR. MANERAL: This is half the property he has and it is the same. MR. GORDON: Did you find the same square footage? MR. MANERAL: Acreagee . MR. GORDON: My property is smaller than Nugents. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 50 MRS . SCHWICKER: Mr. Nugent has less property than you do and his assessment is the same. MR. GORDON: I don't believe it. I would like to check it out. MR. HEUSER: How much area does he have, Pat? MR. MANERAL: He has . 125 of an acre . MRS . SCHWICKER: He claims he does not have this acreage . He claims that is an error too. MR. GORDON: This is what I have . MR. MANERAL: You will have to furnish us with proof that that is a mistake . MR. GORDON: I have the proof. MR. HEUSER: May I interrupt again? Here is Martha Raynor. She has exactly the same acreage as you and she is assessed 100 more on land than you are . MR. GORDON: I would like to dispute that also based on the square footage taken from this tax map. MR. HEUSER: Here is a fellow with . 75 of an acre . $300 . 00 . MR. GORDON: I say that is also incorrect. I used a magnifying glass and I can swear to those myself. MRS. SCHWICKER: 49 ' by 78 or 45 x 76 feet. Gosh, I can ' t read that. 49 x 76 x 45 . Is that it? MR. GORDON: Mine is a parallelogram, yes. That is not a quarter of an acre by any stretch of the imagination. MR. HEUSER: That is an 1/8 of an acre. MR. GORDON: Is that . 125? MRS. SCHWICKER: Now, what is it, No. 3? MR. HEUSER: You have an 1/8th of an acre. MR. GORDON: I believe that Nugent has the same thing. MR. HEUSER: Raynor has an 1/8 of an acre and she is charged more than you. MR. GORDON: I think Raynor has more square footage than I do. I doubt it if you square it out. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 51 MR. HEUSER: Well, I am going to go back to something while we are talking. They never increased your land value. They only increased your house. So what does the land value have to do with it? MR. GORDON: I am talking about the total. MR. MANERAL: I think what we are going to do is break for lunch. You can come back right after we come back from lunch. We will continue at that particular time . MR. GORDON: When I come back I will provide a magnifying glass. MR. HEUSER: We have one . MR. MANERAL: Let the record show that the Board is recessing for lunch at 12 : 13 P .M. MR. MANERAL: Please note that the Board is sitting at 1: 24 P.M. with a quorum present. We are in the middle of the application of Leon Gordon. Mr. Gordon do you have any further statements you wish to present. MR. GORDON: I had a problem with the amount of time required to go to lunch and with the amount of time I required to present my case. I find no problem with me being given enough time to present my case . MR. MANERAL: You believe you are being given the full time due you? MR. GORDON: I do. I would like to bring up some other information that I was able to secure while out to lunch. Due to the fact that I had the benefit of sitting here this morning and listening to other grievances and the questions asked by the Board against I would Eike to submit the following: The house in question was bought by me in 1955 for the sum of $7, 800. 00 . At that time I took a $6 , 000 . 00 mortgage with the Southold Savings Bank with an $1, 800. 00 down payment. That mortgage was satisfied in 1975 . In the years around 1967 to 1968, for personal reasons I was attempting to place my house the market. I have it on the market for approximately one year. My best offer was $13, 000. 00.- I bottom lined that as the lowest price . As a result of my unyielding attitude, the sale fell through and for the most part the purchase price offered to me was $12,000. 00. I consequently did not sell. I could not afford the loss. I was still under the mortgage at the time. The reason I am putting this in is to indicate that not too long ago, that was the value of the property in Greenport in that particular location. In referring to the two homes I am putting on a comparison this morning, I am willing to concede that the properties are basically the same square footage, within a few feet. We are not talking about any great variations. I am also indicating that all three of the homes, mine included, are of asbestos shingle construction. Although I am a bungalow, both of these other homes are full, two-family dwellings . What I am indicating here that it seems to me that the variation between the assessed valuation of my home and the large amount of valuation increase since originally and the two parcels in question, that the variation is just too great, for me to accept without a better understanding of it. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 52 I don' t feel that the equity is there. MR. HEUSER: May I interrupt. I would like to clarify the fact that we pulled out the two cards that you asked us to pull out, which is Robert Nugent and Martha Raynor. Those are the two you chose to compare to your own. One thing that has not been clarified in your mind is that you have after the 35% depreciation 2, 800 square feet of living area in your house. Martha Raynor after the same depreciation has only 1600 square feet of living area. MR. GORDON: I don' t believe so. MR. HEUSER: That is what the records show. Robert Nugent has only 1900 square feet. MR. GORDON: That includes upstairs too? How can you do that? It is a full , two family house . MR. MANERAL: We did not do this. We are taking cards that the assessors . MR. HEUSER: Let' s try and get this to a conclusion. Take Martha Raynor. The main building is 2, 180 feet. The first story extensions are 155 square feet, and the porch is 85 square feet. The outside metal building is another 25 square feet. That all adds up to 2, 719 square feet before the depreciation. You have 4 ,360 square feet before depreciation. MR. GORDON: Is that based on the entire piece of property? MR. HEUSER: That is based on the size of the house . MR. GORDON: What are my dimensions on the home? MR. HEUSER: Your home. Your home is 27 x 39 on the first floor. and entry 4 x 7 for 28 square feet and a porch of 8 x 23 for 184 square feet. MR. GORDON: Those two porches are absolutely useless. MR. HEUSER: Regardless of their use, they are considered area space. MR. MANERAL: You use them. MR. HEUSER: We cannot do anything about that, Mr. Gordon. MR. -MANERAL: We will review the whole thing. MR. HEUSER: To be truthful with you, these properties that you have submitted as comparative properties, neither has more living area than you do. In the ground area, one is less than yours and the other is equal to yours. The assessed valuation is the same. MR. GORDON: Excuse me, which one is less? If we are talking about Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 53 the Nugent property, I think you will find that is a mistake. MR. MANERAL: I think, if I may interject here, it doesn ' t make any difference about the land. I don' t think that is being taken into consid- eration. He was just bringing out a comparison. Because you asked for the comparison. The living areas in the two cards that you requested, both are less than yours. What we are trying to do is get you to see the whole picture. Of course, we talked earlier about you using the wrong figure at the very beginning. Let us when we sit down and break bread, we will review all of these things and we will let you know just as soon as we reach our conclusion. MR. GORDON: I would just like to say in conclusion that we are talking about an $1 ,100 . 00 jump. Understandably we are going back a long time . Based on what I paid for the property, I doubt that I would be able to get the selling price for this that I should. MR. MANERAL: What I was saying to you, Mr. Gordon is that we have all this on tape, our secretary is taking everything in shorthand, our panel members are taking notes, and we will take everything into consid- eration what you have written and said. We ' ll let you know our final decision. Are you satisfied that everything is on the Board. MR. GORDON: Yes. Will this be before December? MR. MANERAL: yes. We hope before August. MR. MANERAL: Is No. 16 present? MR. HEUSER: No. 17 is dead. They pulled out. Who is No. 16? MR. MOISA: No. 16 is John Bednoski and wife. MR. MANERAL: John Bednoski, is he present? MR. HEUSER: What happened to poor John? MR. MANERAL: He was here this morning? He' s not here, but he may be back. Shall we go on? MR. HEUSER: We will put him down. MRS. CONROY When you assign a number like number 17 and the person withdraws, are you going to void that number? That is the way it will go through your minutes. MR. HEUSER: Do we have a card for Peter Terranova? No. 17 is considered Void by the Board of Assessment Review since the applicant withdrew his application and the minutes will reflect the same . Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 54 No. 18 - Peter Terranova, 280 Sound Avenue, Peconic, New York. MR. WEINHEIMER administered the Oath to Mr. Terranova. MR. HEUSER: What is the nature of Mr. Terranova' s application? MR. MANERAL: The nature is inequality, but we need some figures there that we don't have . MR. HEUSER: Do you have any idea of the full value of your property? MR. TERRANOVA: Around $50, 000 to $55,000 . 00, mabe even $65,000 . 00 . MR. HEUSER: Purchase price was $8,500. 00? Oh, but you buit on to it in 1978. MR. TERRANOVA: My grievance here is that my $3. 00 rate is not equal to my neighbors. MR. MANERAL: Your neighbors have a different rate? MR. TERRANOVA: I am lot No. 5 , and I have a $3. 00 rate. Lot rate has a rate of $2 . 25 . MR. HEUSER: You are calling it by the building rate now. MR. TERRANOVA: On the square footage, right. MR. HEUSER: Not a lot rate? We will have to get a card for that. MR. TERRANOVA: I also have lot 3 listed which has a $2 . 00 rate. MR. MANERAL: Henry? MR. HEUSER: Which one do you wish us to pull? MR. TERRANOVA: You can pull lot 4 , lot 3. MR. HEUSER: We would like to just make one comparison if we could. MR. TERRANOVA: Okay, then you can pull lot No. 4 , which is right next door to me. MR. HEUSER: Would you say his house is comparable to yours? MR. TERRANOVA: Comparable in what respect? MR. HEUSER: Size and so forth and so on. MR. TERRANOVA: No, I think mine is larger. MR. MANERAL: He is complaining about the rate not the assessment. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 55 MR. HEUSER: Okay, pull Longo on Lot No. 4 next to Mr. Terranova. MR. TERRANOVA: I use this as a summer home. I have a home in Florida and a home in Syosset. Every year I turn the water off. Roger McCarvil is my plumber. MR. HEUSER: Now we are back to Longo. MR. TERRANOVA: Longo' s rate is $2 .25. MR. HEUSER: Right. MR. TERRANOVA: You go to lot 3 and the rate is $2. 00. MR. HEUSER: Okay, let' s see . Lot No. 4 is built on piers, no basement. You have a basement. You have a cement block foundation. He hasn' t. MR. TERRANOVA: Okay, I agree . MR. HEUSER: You have asbestos external walls, and he has lap siding. MR. TERRANOVA: okay. MR. HEUSER: You have a fireplace, and he has none . MR. TERRANOVA: Is this what determines the rate? MR. HEUSER: You both have a bath. You have "WW" floors. I don ' t know what that means. MR. TERRANOVA: Wall to wall carpeting. MR. HEUSER: Oh, is that what that is? He has linoleum. You have good walls inside and they have wall board. MR. TERRANOVA: It doesn' t pay to live right. MR. HEUSER: You have electric heat, they have none. MR. TERRANOVA: Oh, they have electric heat. MR. HEUSER: It isn 't on here . MR. TERRANOVA: I don' t know about that. MR. HEUSER: Now the roofs are the same . These are the factors that increase that rate of yours. MR. TERRANOVA; This is the things I did not know. In other words. . . MR. HEUSER: If you have a basement and I don 't you have a different rate than I do. MR. TERRANOVA: Why should that rate apply to the whole square footage Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 56 of the house? MR. HEUSER: Because the basement covers that particular area. It is part though. Another thing that affects it is you have a cement block foundation and his house is built on piers. You have asbestos walls and he has shingles. MR. TERRANOVA: I have asbestos instead of redwood siding. MR. HEUSER: You have a fireplace which is a factor. MR. TERRANOVA: Which I don' t use . MR. HEUSER: Well, it is there and that is the unfortunate part of it. MR. TERRANOVA: Tear it out! MR. HEUSER: You have electric heat and he has no heat. MR. TERRANOVA: He has heat. MR. HEUSER: That I don' t know. MR. MANERAL: According to the card, he does not have heat. That is all we can go by. MR. HEUSER: Getting back to the rate, that is how it is determined. MR. TERRANOVA: I thought the rate was determined because I have so much square footage. MR. HEUSER: In other words, suppose you and I both have the same square footage . Let' s say 200 square feet. If you had an ordinary shingle house and I had a brick house, the rate would be different. MR. TERRANOVA: Why is that? MR. HEUSER: Because of the value. MR. TERRANOVA: If I take money out of the bank which I now longer am going to earn interest on and use it so I can have a better house con- structionwise, I am penalized by not only losing interest on my investment but also with heavier taxes. MR. HEUSER: That' s true, but you have a piece of property that is increasing in its value. MR. TERRANOVA: It is only increasing because I put the money into it. MR. HEUSER: Naturally. MR. TERRANOVA: Why should you be penalized just because you upgrade yourself? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 57 MR. HEUSER: We can' t touch that. MR. TERRANOVA: It doesn't make equitable sense . MR. HEUSER: Look in Flordia if you live there long enough they give you $10, 000 off and you don' t have to pay taxes. MR. TERRANOVA: You have to be over 65 and have homestead. I under- stand that. MR. HEUSER: The same thing applies here . You can go see a tax assessor, if you wish. MR. TERRANOVA: What' s the point. You seem to know what you are talking about. MR. MANERAL: You are entitled to this. MRS. LYTLE: Have you started? MR. HEUSER: Yes. We knew you girls were held up. MRS. LYTLE: It takes an hour anywhere to eat. MR. TERRANOVA: In other words what you are telling me is that every time I do something to better my style of living even though it costs me money, I'm penalized. MR. MANERAL: The question here seems to be the rate that is used in assessing a house, Henry. One that is constructed on piers and the other on a fouhdation. MR. MOISA: It is 25 -cents more for having a foundation instead of piers. MR. HEUSER: Now add a partial basement against no basement. MR. MOISA: goes up another 25 cents . MR. HEUSER: A fireplace? MR. MOISA: Another 25 cents. MR. HEUSER: Heat versus no heat? MR. MOISA: Another 25 cents. MR. HEUSER: That brought you from $2. 25 to $3. 00 . MR. TERRANOVA: In other words I should get it down to the way it was before . MR. HEUSER: You don' t want to live that way. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 58 MR. TERRANOVA: This is a deterring factor to anyone who wants to progress in living not only myself , but as I improve my properties, I improve the properties around me. MR. MANERAL: That happens to me too. There are things I want to do, but I don' t do them because I will be assessed at a higher rate. That is the way they operate . MR. TERRANOVA: I know for example of another house that has a founda- tion, and he has everything that I've got and hisrate .is $2. 75 . MR.--MANERAL: There must be one thing that you have that he doesn' t, which would make up the other 25 cents we were talking about. MR. TERRANOVA: You' ll probably find that it is the wall to wall carpeting. Or maybe I have an extra bathroom. MR. MANERAL: That could be. MRS . SCHWICKER: Could I have the card, please? MR. HEUSER: Let' s go to No. 19 . Number 17 is void. MRS. LYTLE: No 17 is void? MR. HEUSER: Was Mr. Terranova sworn in? MR. WEINHEIMER: Yes, I swore him in. MR. TERRANOVA: I understand what you are saying and I appeciate your consideration. I just don' t understand it on the basis of equity. MR. MANERAL: I think you will have to take that up with the assessors. They are the ones that do this. We don' t have any jurisdiction over them. None whatsoever. MR. HEUSER: I am on the same side of the fence with you. I get annoyed at the school tax from which I get absolutely no benefit. So I agree with you. MR. MANERAL: I don 't mean to cut you short, but we are not going to settle this. We agree in one respect, but disagree in the other. If you have anything else, we will be glad to listen to you. No. 16 - John Bednoski, Jr. and wife, 34570 County Road, Box 145, Peconic, New York. MR. MANERAL: Is this your applicaton? MRS. SCHWICKER administered the oath to Mr. Bednoski. MR.MANERAL: Let the record show that it is 1: 45 P .M. and there is a full Board sitting again. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 59 MR. HEUSER: I thought we had Mr. Bednoski and just laid him aside . MR. MANERAL: Would you tell us on what basis you are here today. On your application you have checked overvaluation. You feel your assessment should be reduced from $7, 200. 00 to $6 ,000. 00. We would like to know how you arrived at your figure, please. MR. BEDNOSKI: The house to me which was just purchased by Dan Boyle earlier this year for a price of $42, 500 . 00 , which has almost 4 acres of land, to my one. He has just as big a house, he has a garage, and a shed, and he is assessed less than I am. I have been rapped three years in a row now. MR. MANERAL: What did you say the name of the man next door to you was? MR. BEDNOSKI: Boyle . MR. HEUSER: We will pull his card. MR. MANERAL: Could we have Daniel Boyle' s card, please? MR. MOISA: That' s in Peconic? MR. MANERAL: Yes. MR. BEDNOSKI: What I did was I looked at Walters on the other side of me who has a swimming pool, stockade fence and all, and they are not even close to me. Their total assessment is $4, 400 . 00 . I'm still at $7, 200 . 00 . I have less, if anything, than these other people have . You can tell me I have new construction, but that doesn' t cut any ice with me . MR. HEUSER: Iri other words you are comparing the land value in this particular situation. MR. BEDNOSKI: What he sold his house for. MR. HEUSER: You say the land value is $6 ,600 . 00 . MR. BEDNOSKI : That is the total assessment. His total land value is $2,600. 00 . MR. HEUSER: What is the $6 ,600. 00 total? MR. BEDNOSKI: That is the total for the house and the land. Just like mine is $7, 200 . 00 and his is $6, 600. 00 . MR. HEUSER: You are talking about assessed valuation? MR. BEDNOSKI: Right. ' MR. MANERAL: When you talk equalization, you are using the wrong figure . The Town of Southold uses 25%, and you have 12 . 28%. Town of Southold . • Grievance Day - Page 60 MR. BEDNOSKI: This was based on what Mr. Reg Hudson did for me. At that figure my house is worth $88, 000. 00. MR. HEUSER: At this basis, $23,200. 00 is your house. MR. BEDNOSKI: That is my house . That is what it cost me to build the house. Is that what you are telling me? MR. HEUSER: No, I am talking about the assessed valuation. This is what they consider your house is worth. MR. BEDNOSKI: They say it is worth $23,200.,00? So how can that be all my house and still be assessed the highest on the block? MR. MANERAL: Is it Daniel Boyle, North Road, Peconic? MRS . SCHWICKER: Can I see the card for a moment, please? MR. HEUSER: The land was split here in 1974.. MR. BEDNOSKI: Th.e 3. 6 acres? MR. HEUSER: Right now it is down to 3. 6 acres, that is correct. The land is assessed at $2,600 . 00. Now I go back to yours. MR. MANERAL: The land value went from $1200 to $1300 to $1400. over a periof of three years from 1976 to 1979. MR. HEUSER: Then you have 3 acres for $2600 and he has one acre for $1400,. multiply that by 3 and it equals $4300 .00.. In other words the land on that basis is assessed for mre than the neighbor's 3. 6 acres. Is this idle land? MR. BEDNOSKI: The house is on part of it. It is all one parcel if that is what you are wondering. MR. MANERAL: You have how much land? MR. BEDNOSKI: One acre. MR. MANERAL: Have you made any improvements in your land at all? MR. BEDNOSKI: Do you mean as far as putting up a tree? MR. HEUSER: That has no particular bearing. MR. BEDNOSKI: In the past three weeks my driveway was put in. MR. HEUSER: That was after this closed. MR. HEUSER: First of all, we will take one step at a time. Your first grievance is over the assessed valuation of your land. He has one acre at $1400 and Mr. Boyle has 3.6 acres at $2600 . 00. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 61 MR. BEDNOSKI: My other neighbor on the west of me has . 23 acres and his land value is $500. 00 . MR. HEUSER: I wish you had told me before, I would have had that card pulled also. MR. MANERAL: That is quarter of an acre . Yours is an acre. MR. HEUSER: That means a whole acre would be worth $2 ,000 . 00. MR. BEDNOSKI: Okay, we are just on land. MR. MANERAL: At that rate he is being assessed higher than you are . MR. BEDNOSKI: I 'm just going by land. MR. HEUSER: Is there anything about the house? MR. BEDNOSKI: No, what do you mean about the house? MR. -HEUSER: Your only claim at this time is about the increased value of the land? MR. BEDNOSKI: On the house also. MR. HEUSER: On the house, too? How about the improvements that were made from permit No. 10138? MR. BEDNOSKI: What is that? MR. HEUSER: I don' t know, you had it done in April, 1979 . MR. BEDNOSKI: The garage? MR. HEUSER: I don ' t know what it is. MR. BEDNOSKI: The garage was unfinished. MR. HEUSER: The new garage was finished in 1977 . MR. BEDNOSKI: It wasn' t finished in 1977. MR. HEUSER: Well, it went on the tax rolls in 1978. MR. BEDNOSKI: As a matter of fact it was not complete in 1978. MR. HEUSER: It went on the 1978-79 tax rolls. MR. BEDNOSKI : Okay, what does that mean? May? MR. HEUSER: Yes, May MR. BEDNOSKI: Okay. Town of Southold i Grievance Day - Page 61/Q MR. HEUSER: Also you had a fence put up later on. MR. BEDNOSKI: No. MR. HEUSER: It says here a permit for April 4 , 1979 for a fence. MR. BEDNOSKI : It was never put up. MR. HEUSER: Well they indicate they didn't increase it anyhow. So that is the reason your property was increased $200 . 00. New garage at an estimated cost of $3000..00 . MR. BEDNOSKI : All right. You can sit there and look at me, but I am still over assessed. MR. HEUSER: I'm waiting for your answer. MR. BEDNOSKI : I can understand whatever the rate is. MRS. LYTLE: Look at your dates. MR. HEUSER: I did, but it wasn ' t finished. The fence was never put up. MRS. SCHWICKER: But this is the date for the re-assessment. MR. HEUSER: It has no bearing on it though. MRS . SCHWICKER: That' s right, this is wrong. MR. HEUSER: No it isn't. It covers the new garage which was finished between April, 1978 and the new tax year. MRS. SCHWICKER: Oh. April of 1977. MR. HEUSER: The gentleman told me it was not finished until after April, 1978. It was finished this year and got on the tax rolls in 1979 . This says the permit was issued, but as Mr. Bednoski says it was not finished, the floor was not put in at which time they raised the assessed valuation $200. 00 MRS. SCHWICKER: Okay. MR. BEDNOSKI : Now on the land. My neighbor has 3. 6 acres with a assessed valuation of $2600 .00 . So if you take 3-1/2 into that you get your value per acre . According to my neighbor' s assessment my one acre should be worth $800 . 00. MR. HEUSER: Your one acre was assessed at $1400. MR. BEDNOSKI: His is at $2600 for 3. 6 acrds. MR. HEUSER: We agreed. MR. MANERAL: This is something we will figure out when we make our Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 62 MR. HEUSER: I agree with you on that point. MR. MANERAL: Our job here is to listen to everything that you have to tell us and make a decision later on. MR. BEDNOSKI: I didn' t know if you were waiting for somethig or what. MR. MANERAL: We are trying to follow this in an orderly procedure so we have everything. MR. HEUSER: So we have everything for Mr. Bednoski as far as his acreage is concerned. The house unless the assessors say otherwise the raise is on the new garage . MR. MANERAL: Is there anything else Mr. Bednoski that you would like to state before this committee? MR. BEDNOSKI: No. MR. MANERAL: We will let you know by mail in the very near future what the decision of the Board is. MR. BEDNOSKI: When is the near future? MR. MANERAL: Sometime before August, I hope . I would guess no later than August 15th, but that is a guess on my part. MR.- HEUSER: Maybe you want to restate that if the people are not happy with our decision, they do have recourse in the courts. MR. MANERAL: You can always go to Court and have them make the final decision if you are unhappy here . MR. BEDNOSKI: I understand, but I think the whole system is very hard to understand. MR. MANERAL: We agree with you there . The newspapers don' t help us out any for they print misinformation on the tax basis and we are sitting as a neutral Board trying to help the people . No. 19 - Cousins Realty Corp. c/o Anthony Maniscalco, 1740 Stewart Avenue, North Bellmore, New York on property on Platt Road, Orient, New York. MR. MANERAL: Do you have your application, sir? MR. MANISCALCO: I sent it in several weeks ago. MR. HEUSER: This is one of these damn subdivision things where they took farm land and subdivided it. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 63 MRS . SCHWICKER: Before I swear this gentleman in, we no figures to go by. MR. HEUSER: It is Cousins Realty Company. MR. MANISCALCO: I was doubtful what to put there . MRS. SCHWICKER: Well we have to know what amount of reduction you want. MR. MANISCALCO: I want to stay status quo. MRS. LYTLE: You can' t accept it unless he shows the reduction he wants. MR. MANERAL: Swear him in and we will go from there. MRS . LYTLE: It is no good unless it has the amount. MR. MANERAL: Let' s swear Yim iA first, then we can throw him out later. MRS . SCHWICKER swore in Mr. Maniscalco. MR. HEUSER: One thing we have to pick up what is your claim based on? You have checked overvaluation. MR. MANISCALCO: This is just pure farmland. MR. HEUSER: It is a subdivision. MR. MANISCALCO: It was a subdivision before . MR. HEUSER: It went off the tax rolls as a piece of farmland and came back on the tax rolls as a subdivision. MRS. LYTLE: How much of a reduction does he want? MR. MANISCALCO: That was a subdivision before the assessment. It stands as it was before. Nothing should have been changed. MRS. LYTLE: He has to give you a figure, before you hear his case. It is illegal for you to handle that application. MR. MANISCALCO: Can I give you a figure now? MR. MANERAL: Why don' t you sit at that table and fill out the rest of the form. MR. MANISCALCO: This is what I didn' t know how to do when I was home alone . I wanted guidance in filling this out. I left it out on purpose. I 'm not familiar with this form. Town of Southold • . Grievance Day - Page 64 MR. MANERAL: You must mark what you think the problem is. MR. MANISCALCO: I think it is an overvaluation. MR. MANERAL: Then you have to check that box. MR. MANISCALCO: Suppose you were going to sell it. I cannot check inequality because I don' t know my neighbors ' assessments. MR. MANERAL: Suppose you were going to sell your property, what value would you put on it? MR. MANISCALCO: I put that down on another part of this form. MR. MANERAL: If this is the same answer, please put it in over here. That is what we have to do, we have no choice. MR. HEUSER: Let' s take the next number while he .is doing that. No. 20 - Joseph R. Avignon and wife, 1839 Colden Avenue, Bronx, New York 10462 ( Property on right-of-way road No. 22, Westphalia Road, Mattituck, New York) . MRS . LYTLE: Has he checked that all the forms are signed? MR. HEUSER: Yes. MRS. SCHWICKER: Is that Colden Avenue or Golden Avenue? MRS. AVIGNON: Colden. C-O-L-D-E-N. MRS. SCHWICKER administered the oath to Mr. and Mrs. Avignon. MR. MANERAL: May I ask on what basis you are asking for a reduction? MR. AVIGNON: Iri accordance with our neighbors. We are paying so much more for footage. Garelle is pay $16 .00 per foot, and Rakowski is paying $22 and Avignon is paying $24. 00. MR. HEUSER: Pick anyone yo•u want, and we will pick up their cards. MRS. SCHWICKER: Hold it a minute. This application is incomplete. MR. MANERAL: The application must be completed. MRS . AVIGNON: Someone in the office handed me this form. MR. MANERAL: Let me ask this question which may save some time. Your house has not been reassessed since 1974. This is an assessment review board. The only thing this Board can deal with is an assessment that has been changed in the last year. If it goes beyond a year, this Board cannot act. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 65 MRS . AVIGNON: What procedure do we follow then? MR. AVIGNON: It is not the house, it is the rate . MR. HEUSER: The assessors can revise it, but they can only get relief for one year. MR. MANERAL: There hasn 't been any change in your assessment since 1974. If you came in in 1974 and 1975 and raised your claim, this Board could hear you. This is 1979. MRS. LYTLE: No, they can come in for any year, but we can only adjust it for one year. MR. MANERAL: Oh, I see where that one year comes in then. MRS . LYTLE: They can come in any time they want. They just catch up with what their neighbors have been paying for the last 4 or 5 years. MR. MANERAL: We had the same question come up this morning, and I tried to catch you, but you didn' t get my eye. MRS. LYTLE: They may come in for any back time they want. For all you know, they have been in during previous years. We don't have all those records. But we can only grant a reduction for this year. MR. HEUSER: Now may I inject something. You explained how our Board functions and so have you, Mabel. We can now submit our recom- mendation to the board of assessors and claim that you want relief on this particular thing. If they find out that you are right and they are wrong, you will get an amount of tax rebate that you are entitled to for one year. That will be allowed on your next year' s tax bill. You do not get it in cash, but they do reduce next year ' s bill. MRS. AVIGNON: I understand. MR. HEUSER: You will then be notified through the chairman within 4 weeks or so. MR. AVIGNON: I would like to know who do I see? MR. HEUSER: Nobody.. It is all taken care of right now. They don ' t give them tax relief this year. It will be for the next year. MRS . AVIGNON: It also says we are assessed for an extra bath. We only have one bathroom. They say we have a porch which we don ' t have either. MR. MANERAL: You have one and one half baths. You have reported the porch. Has anybody been over to look at it. MRS . CONROY: Then you are talking about a porch also? MR. AVIGNON: Yes, we do not have a porch. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 66 MRS . AVIGNON: I don't know what they consider a porch. We have a garage that is recessed from the front of the house . Like 4 feet. They came out 2 feet with concrete to finish off the entrance to the garage. Is this what they consider a porch? MRS. LYTLE: Is it a breezeway? MR. AVIGNON: No. MRS . AVIGNON: It is just an entrance to the garage . It is a setback from the rest of the house . MR. AVIGNON: It is all incorporated with the house itself. MR. HEUSER: The bath business we took care of. Is there anything else? MR. AVIGNON: This porch business. MR. HEUSER: The porch. One is 101x 28 ' and the other is 8 ' by 19 ' . The 8 ' x 19 ' porch is on the left hand side . MR. AVIGNON: There is a garage. It shows a sketch here doesn' t it? MR. HEUSER: Yes, right here . MR. AVIGNON: This is not the house we are referring to. This is not our house. MR. HEUSER: I'm sorry, I grabbed the wrong card. Here it is. This is a little better. First of all the last assessment was in 1974. You want a reduction. There is only one bath on the card. MR. AVIGNON: They must have changed it. MR. HEUSER: I had the wrong card. MR. AVIGNON: No, when we looked at it last week, it had 1-1/2 baths. MR. HEUSER: Basement, wooden sheath external walls, interior finish is sheetrock. No fireplace and electric heat. Is that correct! MRS . AVIGNON: That' s right. MRS . SCHWICKER: Ted, what do they want the reduction to? They haven ' t stated it and it must be stated. MR. HEUSER: I want to give it back to them. MRS. LYTLE: You , better check those forms all over well. MR. HEUSER: If you just fill in where I have checked, then you can come back again. Town of Southold . • Grievance Day - Page 67 MRS . LYTLE: That' s what I mean, they forms should be made out correctly in the first place. Have they all been made out properly? MR. MANERAL: No, they haven' t. MRS. LYTLE: They must be before you can hear them. MRS. SCHWICKER: Can I have the card for Mr. Bednoski, please? I just want to do something on it please. MR. HEUSER: Is this gentleman ready? What number are you, sir? MR. MANISCALCO: I 'm number 19 . I have returned upon completing the form. No. 19 - Cousins Realty Company, 1740 Stewart Avenue, North Bell- more, New York. MRS. SCHWICKER: I don't think he has been sworn in. MR. WEINHEIMER: Were you sworn in? MR. MANISCALCO: Yes. MRS . 'SCHWICKER: What is the address on thi3. MR. MANISCALCO: I have it right there. See below. 1740 'Stewart Avenue, North Bellmore, New York. MRS. SCHWICKER: May I have the spelling of your name so I have it correctly? MR. MANISCALCO: M-A-N-I-S-C-A-L-C-O. MR. HEUSER: This one has to go back right away. It is not complete . Is Mr. Jurzenia here? MR. MANERAL: No. MRS . LYTLE: What is the number? MRS. CONROY: No. 19 . MRS. LYTLE: I have a notation that he is filling out the form. MR. MANERAL: You better let me have that one if it is not complete. MR. HEUSER: Okay, we are going to start all over again with Cousins Realty. MRS. LYTLE: What is the number? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page-'68 MR. HEUSER: No. 19 . I guess we can proceed then. MR. MANERAL: Would you like to make your statement. MR. MANISCALCO: What statement should I make. It was raised from $2000 to $5 , 300. 00 . That is approximately 116%. MR. HEUSER: It is more than that. MR. MANISCALCO: It is doubled and then some. I don' t see the reason. MR. HEUSER: You appraise it for $45,000 , correct? MR. MANISCALCO: Yes, that is what I am asking. MR. HEUSER: You said you purchased it for that. MR. MANISCALCO: Yes. MR. HEUSER: You are asking $16 ,000 per lot which is none of my business. MR. MANISCALCO: Yes, it is all on there. That is per lot which is 2 acre zoning out there . I don ' t know if you can read that little scribbling? MR. HEUSER: Yes , I can. I would suggest that you bring the tax assessor in that handles Orient. MR. MANISCALCO: I have a tax form with me. MR. HEUSER: Henry, are you the Orient man, that is who we need. Mel, you are familiar with the Cousins Realty Company? MR. KELSEY: More or less, yes. MR. HEUSER: That was a farmland made into a subdivision. rating wise . MR. KELSEY: It was a minor sub and it was broken up into acreage and the balance was assessed at $500. 00 per acre. It is assessed at $1200 for the first acre. We have been doing that All over. MR. HEUSER: I did not get that. PIR. KELSEY: We charge lot 1 $1200 of assessment for the first acre . Then the balance of the land is assessed at $500. 00 per acre. MR. HEUSER: What is the balance left over? MR. MANISCALCO: Seven acres times 5 would be $3500 . 00 . MR. HEUSER: I see what you are telling me . This is how you assess the lots. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 69 MR. KELSEY: Yes. MR. HEUSER: Then you assess the excess acreage at $500 . 00 per acre . MR. KELSEY: At the lower rate . MR. HEUSER: That made up the $5, 300. 00 . MR. KELSEY: That is how the increase was arrived at. MR. HEUSER: You have to pick it up from there. MR. MANISCALCO: I don' t think it is fair. I don 't see where doubling and a half comes in. MR. HEUSER: This is why we are here is to listen to your thinking. MR. KELSEY: In Laurel, we assessed the first acrea at $1,600 and the the balance was assessed at $500 . 00 per acre. Most of the vacant land acreage is $1200. 00 today in the Town of Southold, even in sub- divisions. MR. MANISCALCO: I hear him, but I don't agree with what he said. Who decides that $1200 is the basic and $500. 00 after that. Why shouldn' t it be $250? Why couldn't it be $700? MR. KELSEY: That is the assessors view point. MR. MANERAL: This is what they have been doing out here, and you have one other recourse . This Board cannot do anything because this is the way it has been set. So I would advise you to get an attorney and go to Court. That is ]pur redress. MR. MANISCALCO: Get an attorney and go to Court. MR. HEUSER: I don' t think you should have said it that way. I would say that if he is not satisfied, he has recourse to go to court. MR. MANERAL: Okay, I'm not telling you to, I 'm telling you what you can do. MR. HEUSER: Now $5300 times 5 is $26 , 500. 00 . Your assessed valuation on all that acreage is $26 ,500. That is the gross valuation. That is $5300 of taxable figure which is 25% of the full value or 4 times that is $21, 200. 00 . They value that land at that for tax purposes. You claim it is worth $45,000. 00. MR. MANISCALCO: Pretty close. MR. HEUSER: Then you are assessed less than 50% of the value of your property. MR. MANISCALCO: I just don' t believe that the assessment should have been that much, that' s all. Who decides it is $500 per acre? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 70 MR. HEUSER: The tax assessor. MR. MANISCALCO: I didn' t know you people were not these people. I just wanted you to listen to my reasoning. MR. HEUSER: Which we do. MR. MANISCALCO: If it is legal then there is nothing I can do about it. If it is appealable, I might want to do it. MR. MANERAL: That is your privilege. MR. MANISCALCO: I don' t know what the immediately surrounding areas. I'm not talking about Demarest. MR. KELSEY: I might mention that Frank Murphy on Laurel Lane and there is one up there in Mattituck, Greenbrier. Same way. MR. MANERAL: He can come in and look at the files. MR. KELSEY: Absolutely. MR. MANISCALCO: My tax bill tells me who bounds me on all sides. I can ask for any of these cards? MR. MANERAL: Absolutely. MR. MANISCALCO: I would assume they are all in line with mine. This increase now, this puts me in dire straits now since I am retired. I won' t starve , but in order to meet this new assessment, I have to raise Demarest to whom I rent out this property. Demarest is going to have to charge more for potatoes and who buys the potatoes so I am taxing myself up. I raise the land, the farmer raises the price of potatoes and I go to the A & P and buy that sack of potatoes from Demarest. I am &retching the point, but do you see what a ridiculous circle this is? MR. MANERAL: This Board has no jurisdiction. MR. MANISCALCO: One more thing. This may even force me to the point if I cannot pay the taxes, I will lose the property. The assessment has gone up twice, the taxes have gone up twice . If I can 't meet the taxes, who gets the property at the end of 3 or 4 years? I would appreciate consideration. MR. MANERAL: We will review the file. No. 20 - Joseph Avignon and wf. MR.-"MANERAL: We are back to these people . MR. WEINHEIMER: You have to indicate how much of a reduction you are requesting. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 71 MRS. SCHWICKER: You have to tell us if you feel your complaint is due to inequality or overvaluation. MR. MANERAL: You have to tell us what you want this reduced to. MR. AVIGNON: We came in here to equalize with our neighbors. Why we are paying so much more a foot than they are? Here is a man who has 1. 36 acres, better property than ours, and his acre is assessed at $1600 . 00. MR. HEUSER: They have inequality here. MR. AVIGNON: That is what I 'm talking about. MRS. AVIGNON: I don 't know how much we should be assessed. It should be equal to our neighbors. MR. MANERAL: This part is still not complete. MR. HEUSER: They need the full ma-rket value and the amount of overvaluation claimed. We still need those two figures. MRS. SCHWICKER: Excuse me sir do you have the names of the surrounding neighbors? MR. HEUSER: Which card you you want us to pull? MR. AVIGNON: In comparison I took Garelle and Rakowski. MR. HEUSER: That was on your other list. MRS. SCHWICKER: Let' s get an assessor to pull this. MR. HEUSER: Which one do you want, sir? MR. AVIGNON: Both of them. MR. WATTS: Okay. MR. AVIGNON: I don ' t know how they come to these figures. I believe they have better property than I have. I have an embankment that makes that property useless. A good part of my property is like that. MR.-HEUSER: Are you on the creek? MR. AVIGNON: Yes. MR. HEUSER: On Westphalia Road? MR. AVIGNON: It is not beautiful in any way, yet footage is higher than those who have better property. MR.-HEUSER: It is not wetlands, is it? To*n of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 72 MR. AVIGNON: No. There is an embankment. This survey map shows it. MR. HEUSER: High water mark. Is this your piece of property? MRS . AVIGNON: Yes. MR. AVIGNON: Theirs is more level and especially Garelle. He has a beautiful piece of property. He can make full use of it. Yet he is paying less for the footage . MR. HEUSER: Here is your bank. Beyond the bank to the creek, is that wetlands? MR. AVIGNON: No. MR. EEUSER: What is the bank in there for? MR. AVIGNON: We are 20 fee up off high water. MR. HEUSER: But it is not wetlands? MR. AVIGNON: No. MR. HEUSER: It is usable property? MR. AVIGNON: It is an embankment. MR. HEUSER: But it is still usable property, am I correct? MRS. AVIGNON: There ' is no property there . It is beach. Water comes right up there . MR. AVIGNON: I know what he is talking about. MR. HEUSER: Does the water come up to your bank? MR. AVIGNON: Up to this point. MR. HEUSER: That is your high water mark. Then this is basically usable property. MR. AVIGNON: It is all on a slant. MR. HEUSER: The only reason I am raising that question is that to make it clear. If this was wetlands, you would be entitled to a reduction for the area of your wetlands. MR. AVIGNON: It' s not. MR. HEUSER: If it isn't wetlands, it remains the same value as the rest of your land. MR. AVIGNON: But I cannot make any use of the land. Toxon of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 73 MR. MANERAL: Like a gentlemen before said he could not use his porch, but it was his porch. It is a difficult thing to handle . MR. HEUSER: Where is Avignon' s card? MR. MANERAL: It is right in front of you isn' t it? It' s right in front of me. MR. HEUSER: Okay, Ratkowski: You both have the same acreage. MR. AVIGNON: Well, I said the value of the land. Some property has better value than others. MR. HEUSER: His land is assessed higher than yours. MR. AVIGNON: HIgher? I thought it was lower. We are talking about the footage now. MR. HEUSER: It is still . 736 of an acre . MR. AVIGNON: I know. But he is paying $22. 00 per foot and I am paying $24. 00 per foot. MRS AVIGNON: Garelle is paying $16. 00 . MR. AVIGNON: I don' t know how it is all figured out. Now Garelle has 1. 36 acres . The land is assessed at $2, 500. 00 MR. MANERAL: Could you step over here, Charlie? Is that the rate per front foot? MR. WATTS : That' s front foot. MR. MANERAL: Why would there be a difference? MR. WATTS: I don ' t know. The only difference could be on the basis of the depth of the property. If it is the same depth as yours or not. MR. MANERAL: This Rakowski are the same size property. MR. HEUSER: He is assessed less for the land. MRS . SCHWICKER: We are talking land. Okay. Here is your land. 1. 5 acres. I 've got to see the map on that. MR. HEUSER: I've got to see the map on that. MR. SCHWICKER: Look at this , it is quite a difference. That is 1. 5 acres. MR. WATTS : This doesn' t tell me how deep the property is. I couldn' t tell without looking at it or the map. MR. MANERAL: If this has to do with depth of the land. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 74 MR. WATTS: In other words. The shorter the depth of the land, the lower the rate . If the depth was 500 feet the rate would be higher than if it was 300 feet. MR. MANERAL: On the front portion of the property? That is the basis on which to tell 'them here. What he is saying is this. I'm going to use this as an example. If your lot is 10 feet deep you are going to pay the front footage a little bit less than my lot which would be 20 feet deep because you have more property back of it. Someone who has 30 feet they will be paying even more. He says that is the reason for the change in rate. It is the depth in the property that changes the rate of the front footage . MRS. AVIGNON: It doesn' t matter how many acres? MR. HEUSER: It is determined by the number of feet on the road plus the depth of your property. This determines the rate. MR. WEINHEIMER: It looks as though he has a long narrow lot so his rate would be more. MR. AVIGNON: But his Garelle his property is approximately the same depth as mine. It might be a little deeper. MR. MANERAL: He sold. . . MR. AVIGNON: He sold quite a bit. MR. MANERAL: He sold quite a bit, but still have the house and quite a bit of property. I don ' t know how deep it is. MR. AVIGNON: It is 1. 36 acres. MR. HEUSER: No, he sold that in 1978. MR. AVIGNON: He still have one lot to sell. That is the one with the house. MRS . SCHWICKER: That is quite a difference. MR. HEUSER: You haven' t taken that into consideration. MRS. SCHWICKER: I see that now. MR. AVIGNON: I'm interested in my own property. MR. HEUSER: Footage on the water=136 feet. You people have 212 feet on the water. MR. AVIGNON: Correct. MR. MANERAL: What is the depth? MR. HEUSER: Garelle has 135 feet on the water. Ratkowski has 440 feet on the water. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 75 MR. AVIGNON: Can' t be. MR. HEUSER: That is what it says here. They cut his acreage down. They didn' t cut his footage down. He sold a lot of that land. He went from 2-2/3 of an acre to 3/4 of an acre . MR. AVIGNON: He didn' t sell any. MR. HEUSER: It was broken up though. MRS . SCHWICKER: This is the water mark. I can see that. MR. MANERAL: It is the depth of the property that determines the rate that they get for a front foot. MRS. SCHWICKER: They have a larger depth. MR. MANERAL: The only thing it seems to me that we can do here is when we go into our session is to review these figures and make sure that we have the right depths and that they correspond to the rates given here. and come up with the proper figure . This one is not proper. MR. HEUSER: We worked on the house, and now you are working on the property is that it? We discussed the house earlier? MRS. AVIGNON: Right. MR. AVIGNON: Yes , it was the extra half a bathroom and the porch. We looked at it last week and it was on there. The gentleman said he would make a note of that. MR. MANERAL: Apparently, he did. It is not on there now, so that was corrected. MR. HEUSER: In other words, you have not been increased since 1974? You are just looking for relief? MR. AVIGNON: We are paying about twice as much as our neighbors. What surprises me is that the embankment is considered as usable land. I cannot make any use of it. It is almost as though it was wetlands. MR. HEUSER: That is what made me ask you if that was the high water mark. MR. AVIGNON: You cannot grow anything on it because the high water mark is so far up. MR. AVIGNON: In fact I try to keep my land from eroding. MRS. SCHWICKER: Everyone who is on the water has the same problem. MR. AVIGNON: The other thing I was wondering about was assessing the whole piece of property. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 76 MR. MANERAL: We will review all of this that you have told us. We will contact you by mail. We can get the town map here, you keep that. MR. HEUSER: Last reduction through assessors on .Land, right? MRS. LYTLE: Did you have an assessor check it? MR. HEUSER: Sure, It is basically on the depth of the land. MRS. LYTLE: How deep was it actually? MR. HEUSER: Let me see. MR. MANERAL: It was 246 on one side. MRS. SCHWICKER: It was deeper than the others, Mabel. MR. HEUSER: Garelle is 135 feet deep and Avignon is 212 deep and Rakowski cannot be any more 125 deep, MR. MANERAL: That' s right, 121 feet deep. No. 21 - Leonard Nezin and Marjorie Nezin, 487 Guy Lombardo Avenue, Freeport, New York (Property located at 528 First Street, Greenport, New York) . MR. HEUSER: I've still got a card here that you never reclaimed. MR. MANERAL: That is the woman that was in this morning, who never came back. MRS. SCHWICKER administered the oath to Mr. Nezin. MR. HEUSER: This house was destroyed 90% by fire. It was on April 8 , 1978 . MRS . SCHWICKER: The property is located at 528 First Street, Greenport, New York. MR. NEZIN: They say 90%? MR. HEUSER: Is that what it was? MR. NEZIN: No. MR. HEUSER: It looks like the devil here. MRS. LYTLE: How does that effect the tax rolls. MR. HEUSER: It is a revalue of the property. The house was improved. Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 77 MRS. LYTLE: They remodeled it? MR. HEUSER: Yes . MR. MANERAL: This gentleman is seeking relief on the basis of three things. MR. HEUSER: You purchased this for $12 ,000 in 1973? MR. NEZIN: That 's right. To repair the fire damage and all, the estimated cost was $6 ,000 . 00 . This gentleman is contending is when they refurbished or rebuilt whatever you want to call the house , they did it on a different basis and lost living space. MR. NEZIN: About 1, 000 square feet of living space. MR. HEUSER: Did you know they gave you a 40% depreciation on your house? MR. NEZIN: Did I know that they gave me 40% depreciation? MR. HEUSER: They reduced you from the original 6500 square feet to 3900 square feet. MR. NEZIN: I never had 6500 square feet. MR. HEUSER: Somebody did, sir. MRS. SCHWICKER: Excuse me, sir. Have you ever been before this Board before? MR. NEZIN: Two years ago. Not on this property. MRS . SCHWICKER: On a different parcel. MR. NEZIN:' No on the fact that the assessment is not done on a 100% . MR. HEUSER: I would call this to the gentleman' s attention. This cannot be checked. There is nothing illegal about it. That will have to be deleted. MR. MANERAL: He claims he should be assessed at $3000. He is being assessed at the value of the house, that ' s all. MR. HEUSER: But I don' t have the card here. Would you delete if off this form. MR. NEZIN: It can be illegal if you are not assessing at full evaluation. MR. MANERAL: Not in the Town of Southold. The only way it is illegal if it is not in our township. Town of Southold S • Grievance Day - Page 78 MR. HEUSER: 800 of the third floor was removed because of the fire; 200 feet of the porch obi the side of the building was removed because of the fire, which makes a reduction of 1000 square feet in the area of the building. Therefore we will have to look at this and see how it is done. MRS. LYTLE: When was that done? MR. HEUSER: That was done between June, 1978 and January, 1979 . It had to be done on a building permit. The Building Department notifies the assessors. Are you finished with that card, Mr. Nezin? MR.'<NEZIN: Just one moment. MR. HEUSER: The land is assessed for $800 and the total assessment is $4700. 00. It is assessed for $18 ,800 .00 . MR. MANERAL: This was before the fire, this was the fire, and this was after the fire. This picture gives you a distorted picture. The picture is taken and shows the indentation of the building. The second picture is taken so you do not see that and think the building is square, and this picture is back showing the indentation. So without going to measure it, it looks like it is the same. MR. NEZIN: May I see that for a moment? MR. HEUSER: Sure. MR. NEZIN: I don' t know. . . . . . MR. MANERAL: How much fire insurance do you have for this building? MR. NEZIN: I don't know. How much did I receive? MR. MANERAL: I don't care anything about how much you collected. How much coverage do you have on the building now? MR. NEZIN: Today, it is not insured. MR. HEUSER: Lightning doesn't strike twice? MR. TNEZIN: No, it is very difficult to get insurance. The Govenor has to pass a law. When you have a fire in a house or a shingle blows off your roof, if it is a loss, the company writes you a letter and its been nice having you for 25 years , but you have had a fire and we don't want you any more. Then they put you into what is called a "fair insurance fund" . MR. HEUSER: Like a risk pool? MR. WEINHEIMER: Like an assigned risk? MR. NEZIN: The rate is 2000% more. This building would cost per year to insure more than you would pay for the building in five years. You are talking in figures of $3 ,500. 00 . to insure a $400 building. The government just passed a law which hopefully will be enacted, and the Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 79 will prevent the insurance companies from red lining previous losses. MR. HEUSER: Let's get back to what we can do for you. Your com- plaint basically is that the square footage? MR. NEZIN: Right. If you look. . . MR. HEUSER: Do you have your tax bill with you? MRS. LYTLE: What is the latest rate the assessors have on it? MR. HEUSER: September, 1978 , they reviewed this home, and on June, 1979, they assessed him. Are you familiar with Greenport, Mel? MR. KELSEY: Yes . MR. HEUSER: Are you familiar with Mr. Nezin's property, the one that had the fire in-At? Mr. Neain contends that he lost 1 ,000� square feet of living space. MR. KELSEY: Well, may I see the card? Judging from the two pictures, one taken in September, 1978 , and these are all new measurements. It was never measured before. You are talking about a porch that is not actually living quarters. MR. HEUSER: I see what he lost. It was like a peak in the top of the house. Is that correct? Was it a third floor, per se? MR. NEZIN: It was a third floor. MR. KELSEY: The only thing we can do is go back and measure it again. MR. HEUSER: I recommend that the assessors go back and measure this again. MR.;,NEZIN: Remeasure from what as a basis , though. In comparison to the old measurements? MR. HEUSER: No, they are going to tAke the new measurements. MR. NEZIN: Is that the old ones that I copied? 1 ,854 feet? MR. HEUSER: May I answer you this way. The assessors go and remeasure your house. Anything that is one this card prior to that is not relevant. Theyare going to remeasure your house and gives you the figures. MRS . LYTLE: The way it stands today. There will be no comparison at all. It will be just as though it is a new building. Right, Mel? MR. KELSEY: Right. We can only measure what we find. MR. HEUSER: Is there someone to let the gentlemen into that house? MR. KELSEY: We don 't need to get into the house. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 80 MR. HEUSER: That' s right. You measure on the outside. MR. NEZIN: I do not understand what this assessment is based on. I am a little confused. MR. HEUSER: Would you tell us what the assessment was based on. MR. KELSEY: The square footage and the rates. MR. HEUSER: These were the new measurements? MR. KELSEY: That' s right. MR. NEZIN: May I see them? These cannot be the new measurements . MR. MANERAL: Regardless of what is on the card, the assessors will go there and remeasure your house. MR. HEUSER: They will establish a new base. MRS. LYTLE: Unless he prefers to take the figures there. MR. NEZIN: I do not want to belabor the point, but I don't know how the assessment was ascertained based on these figures for the yellow and green trim. The house has not been yellow and green since 1964 . I don't see how any assessment was truly made based on those figures . MR. MANERAL: We have no choice but to accept what is on this card by the assessors. If the assessors are willing to come back and check the measurements , that is about all we can do for you at this particular time. MR. NEZIN: How will this rate be billed? MR. HEUSER: Is this the new house? MR. NEZIN: That is the house as it has been renovated, yes. MR. HEUSER: Where were you talking about the green and yellow? MR. NEZIN: On the card here, it is listed as yellow and green. MR. HEUSER: Okay, I see. MR. MANERAL: Those could have been the original colors. MR. NEZIN: No , it was white before that. It was yellow and green in 1964 . MR. HEUSER: They will go and measure again, and you will be advised. If an adjustment is made on the footage, you will be advised of that also. MR. NEZIN: Are there minutes being taken? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 81 MR. MANERAL: Yes. MR. NEZIN: The thing I would like noted is that whatever figure is arrived at, from whatever new measurements , cannot exceed the total square footage of the house prior to the fire. Nor could it exceed its value prior to the fire. The house was repaired, it is not a new building. So it is not really a new measurement. If they are going to go back and measure, I would like it noted that in 1966 the assessed valuation on this was $3300. 00 , which was the valuation of the house prior to the fire. Then after the fire without any measurements $4700 . 00 is the new evaluation. MR. MANERAL: Everything you have said has been properly noted. MR. HEUSER: Getting back to this. 13 years is quite a bit of time between 1966 and 1979 . MRS. LYTLE: Do I understand the gentleman that the gentleman wants to make a provis&,about how much it should be? MR. HEUSER: No. MRS. LYTLE: That it could not be any more than that? MR. NEZIN: I have the figures for the house and I believe the insurance company has the square footage and the cubic footage. The fire was less than 21% of the total square footage. MRS . LYTLE: You are talking dollars and cents . MR. NEZIN: I have it figured down to $3,000 .00 . I think that should be the assessed valuation of the building. MRS. SCHWICKER: It is no valued at $4700? MR. NEZIN: Yes. Prior to the fire in 1966 the value of $3300 .00 I 'm saying with the less footage. MRS. LYTLE: We cannot commit ourselves to any decision right now. MR.- NEZIN: I understand that. MR. HEUSER: We have here that the premises will be measured and the Board advised, who in turn will advise you. That is all that can be done, correct Mabel? MRS. LYTLE: Right. MR. NEZIN: Thank you very much. MR. HEUSER: Anyone else out there, Mel? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 82 No. 22 - Mark Edwin Andrews, 8 Shadder Way, Houston, Texas ( Property on Fishers Island, New York) MRS. LYTLE: This is Fishers Island, this is a good one. MR. HEUSER: I have NO. 23. MRS. SCHWICKER: Read that one off. MR. HEUSER: Fisher' s Island Sea Wynde, Inc. , MR. PILZER: Excuse me, but the remaining four will all say Fisher';s Island Sea Wynde, Inc. MR. HEUSER: Pardon. MR. PILZER: The remaining four applications I presented are all under the same name . Fisher' s-Island Sea Wynde, Inc. MR. WEINHEIMER: Are they all different parcels? MR. PILZER: Yes. MR. HEUSER: They are all the same name? MR. PILZER: The only individual name is Mark Edwin Andrews. MRS . SCHWICKER: We can mark these 23, A, B, C, D. MRS. LYTLE: No, each one must have a number. MR. HEUSER: No, these are four distinct claims, Pat. MR. PILZER: You will just have to identify them by something other than Fisher' s Island Sea Wynde, Inc. MR. HEUSER: This is No. 23. Did you number yours? MR. MANERAL: I have 24, 25 and 26 here. MRS. SCHWICKER: Give them to me for a second, so we can get them squared away. MR. PILZER: If I may, you do have item numbers. MRS. SCHWICKER: That is what I am going to use. MRS. LYTLE: How do you designate the different ones? MR. HEUSER: They all have different item numbers on them. MRS . SCHWICKER: May I have No. 23 please? Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 83 MR. HEUSER: By the way, I 'm trying to place this, where is it? This Fisher' s Island Sea Wynde, Inc. MR. PILZER: To be honest with you I have never been on Fishers Island. MR. HEUSER: I have , but I don ' t recall this. MRS. CONROY: I think it is around the golf course , isn't it? MR. HEUSER: Is that where it is? MR. PILZER: Yes , I think so. MRS. SCHWICKER: No. 22 I already told you, right, Babs? MRS. CONROY: Right. Take them as we go. MRS. SCHWICKER: No. 23 is Fisher's Island, Sea Wynde, Iric. , Item No. 74941. That' s 23. MRS. CONROY: What' s the item No. for 24? MR. HEUSER: Wait a minute . Here is your item No. This here. MRS. CONROY: No, that' s your County Tax Map No. MR. HEUSER: That' s what we want, isn' t it? No. 1000-01-01-15 . Now you can put item No. behind it if you want. MRS. LYTLE: You have to cross the item number all out? MR. HEUSER: Behind it you can put Item No. 74941. MR. PILZER: Excuse me there is no such number on any of the parcels that you just mentioned. You said 1000-01-01-15 . MRS . SCHWICKER: That is for our records. MR: PILZER: That' s not the tax map number? MRS. SCHWICKER: That' s for our records ' MR. PILZER: I 'm sorry. MRS. CONROY: That is the County Tax Map number. MRS . HEUSER: That' s for us to keep everything straight. MR. PILZER: That's not the tax map number for any parcel that I have . I took them right from the tax book. Oh, 1000-1-1-5 . Oh, I thought you said 15 . MR. HEUSER: Now that is 23. What is 24 Pat? (The Correct Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 84 County Tax Map No. for Application No. 23 is: 1000-05-01-part of 1. Item No. 74941) . MR. HEUSER: What is No. 24 , Pat? MRS. SCHWICKER: Wait a minute now. 1000-5-1-1. MR. HEUSER: That' s all. MRS. SCHWICKER: Same heading. MR. HEUSER: Do you have an item No. there? MRS. SCHWICKER: You told me not to give you them. MR. HEUSER: No, I said for identification purposes. MRS. SCHWICKER: All right. 75001. MR. PILZER: That's 24? MRS. CONROY: Yes. MRS. SCHWICKER: That's 24. MR. HEUSER: What is No. 25? MRS. SCHWICKER: Item No. 75061. County Tax Map No. 1000-01-01-6 . MR. HEUSER: Part of 6? Okay, No. 26? MR. PILZER: You just numbered that one No. 25? I think there is some discrepancy between the tax map number and the tax bills. I have no number 5 at the end of any of mine . MRS . SCHWICKER: Mark Edwin Andrews is No. 22. MR. PILZER: Right. This is the tax map number that you just read to me that belongs to that application. MRS. SCHWICKER: No. 24 is Item No. 75001. MR. PILZER: You just read 1000-1-1-6 as number 25. MRS. SCHWICKER: Then these are incorrect. MR. PILZER: That is interesting, because I have copies of the tax bills. MRS. SCHWICKER: That' s right. It is on there too. It is the same thing. MR. HEUSER: Is that No. 25, Pat. MRS. SCHWICKER: That is No. 22. He is confusing me again. Wait Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 85 This is for our reference . MR. HEUSER: No. 26 now? MRS . SCHWICKER: When I refer to this property, sir, I will refer to the item number you have typed on the front, okay? That will be your reference. Our reference has to be something else. No. 26 is Item No. 75121, Tax Map No. 1000-01-01-7. MR. HEUSER: Is that all? MRS. SCHWICKER: That' s it. MR. HEUSER: Do you have them in the same numerical sequence, Sam? MR. MANERAL: Yes. MRS. SCHWICKER: No. 22 is Mark Edwin Andrews. MRS . CONROY: Let' s do them one at a time so I don't get confused. MRS. SCHWICKER: That' s what we are doing now. Your name, sir? MR. PILZER; Mr. Pilzer, P-I-L-Z-E-R. MRS. SCHWICKER: You represent the next five parties. MRS . SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Pilzer. MR. MANERAL: Mr. Pilzer, if you would like to come up and make your statement now? MR. PILZER: The few words that I would like to say are applicable to all five parcels. Rather than make lengthy oral presentations, we take taken the effort to submit a statement with each application, and we simply ask that you give due consideration to that statement rather than be bothered with a oral presentation and so forth. MR. HEUSER: Very thoughtful. MR. PILZER: But, if there is any information that you lack or need, anything regarding the property is certainly available . Just contact our office, and we will have it sent to you. MR. HEUSER: I want to be helpful now. Suppose each of as takes one of these forms and reviews the letter attached and see if we have any questions for the gentleman before he leaves. Follow what I mean. MR. MANERAL: I think it would be better if we just take one. Now there is a question on this first one that Pat has raised. MRS. SCHWICKER: He has it down here on monetary figures, here . I assume that he means a reduction of $61. 40 on his tax bill that he gets. MR. PILZER: No m' am. That means that the assessment should in fact Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 86 be reduced to a figure of $61.40 . MRS . SCHWICKER: Rather than $500. 00 -which is on the land? MR. PILZER: No, the full market value. Oh, then it is assessed. . . MRS. SCHWICKER: That' s right. It' s assessed at $500. MR. MANERAL: You think it ought to be assesse. . . MRS. SCHWICKER: You think it should be $61.40? MR. PILZER: That' s correct. We have, of course, submitted infor- mation to support that position. MR. MANERAL: Here is that one. Do you want to take it and look at it, Ted. We will take your advise and distribute them. MR. HEUSER: Mabel, I would offer you one. MRS. LYTLE: No, I'm trying to make as many notes as I can. He wants the value of the land reduced to $61. 40? MR. MANERAL: Why don't you make yourself comfortable. Take your coat off. It is hot in here. MR. PILZER: I am soaked through with perspiration now. It doesn' t matter at this point. FIRS . SCHWICKER: We don' t want you to pass out. MR. MANERAL: Should we bring this to his attention right off the bat? This is the wrong figure, Ted. Mr. Pilzer, I have No. 25 . I assume they are all the same, which is the Item 75001, which you have. On the second page of the application under inequality, based on one or more of the following complaints. 12. 28% of full market value . In the Town of Southold it is 25% of the full market value. MR. PILZER: That is your state equalization rate? MR. HEUSER: Yes . MR. PILZER: That is interesting. Our office called the Board of Assessors and was told 12 .28% was the rate . MR. MANERAL: Well, we have been sitting here all day working on the 25%. MR. PILZER: I will take your word for it. But two calls were made on different days just to verify the fact. MRS. LYTLE: With whom did you speak? MRS . PILZER: Unfortunately, no name was obtained. When I swear to the statements. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 87 MR. MANERAL: We take that into consideration. MR. WEINHEIMER: Sam, that is the equalization rate, but the Town of Southold doesn' t use it. MR. MANERAL: Correct. MR. HEUSER: It is not mandatory. MR. PILZER: The persons with whom our office spoke obviously gave us the impression that was the rate. MR. HEUSER: Do you wish to call your office . You can use our phone . MR. PILZER: No. MRS. LYTLE: We have been using that for quite a few years. MR. PILZER: That is of course going to change the figures. If I may have just a moment. MR. HEUSER: You may have all you wish. MRS . LYTLE: He has to refigure now. I begged them to put an article in the paper. MR. HEUSER: They should, absolutely. MR. MANERAL: The second day we were over there I was talking to Mr. Ryan as well as the rest. When we were talking I said, "Why don' t you people have newspaper articles put in the papers and explain the whole thing exactly how this is handled. " He told me they did it one time and they printed what they wanted anyway. They don't print what we want put in the articles. MRS . LYTLE: All they have to do when they put the legal notice in the local paper. MR. PILZER: This might be the easiest. Under inequality for all of the applications where the last lines reads: We believe the assessment should be reduced to: We have obviously taken 12 . 28% of the full market value, and the full market value is printed on the top of that section. If you like, we will gladly redo the forms and submit new copies. If you wish in the meantime, you need only change the 12 .28% to 25%. Take 25% of the top figure, full market value, and that would be the assessment to which we would like it reduced. Apparently, you do use the 25% rate. MR. HEUSER: Okay we will take the $2, 200 and take 25% . That is $880 . 00 . In other words to get 25%. MRS. CONROY: Now, my question is? Your accepting these forms for today. Mr. Pilzer is going to be mailing the correctly filled out forms? Who is going to get these forms? Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 88 MR. PILZER: They can be delivered. MRS. CONROY: To you, and then you will bring them down to me . MR. HEUSER: They will be delivered to whomever the Chairman decides to have them delivered to. MRS . LYTLE: I also think the gentleman should state his case now. He should state his reasons. MR. HEUSER: He has this all down in the applications. MR. PILZER: The purpose of that statement is to explain everything, except of course, you need additional information that you decide you subsequently need to have . We will submit anything you need. MRS. LYTLE: Maybe you should read these over to see if there is anything else we need. MRS . SCHWICKER: That is what we are doing now. MR. PILZER: Some of the complaint forms that I have seen. This is not one of them, but it is similar. It has a box in which you can check that the complainant is prepared to submit additional information. That pretty much is what I am saying. MR. MANERAL: Do you have an office in Mattituck? Ted? MR. EEUSER: My office is in Riverhead. MR. PILZER: I practice in Riverhead if that would help you. MR. MANERAL: I would just have to deliver them to your office. MR. HEUSER: I would have to go from Mattituck to Riverhead to pick them up. I only go in on special occassions. MR. MANERAL: Okay, Then you can deliver them to Mattituck. That will save that much gasoline for him and time for you. MR. HEUSER: There is always someone home at my house . MR. PILZER: Once someone is in a car it doesn' t take much effort to come here. MR. HEUSER: I think it would be better to leave them here. MR. MANERAL: Are you going to be here Friday, Babette? MRS . CONROY: No, I 'm taking the rest of the week off to start to type these . MR. MANERAL: Why not give them to Joan Richter? MRS. CONROY: Give them to Joan and when I come in on Monday, I can add them on to the end. I doubt if I will be up to the 22nd hearing. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 89 MR. HEUSER: To be helpful to you I suggest that if they are delivered to Joan, Sam, you should review them before Monday. MR. MANERAL: I will give you directions to my house which is a half a mile off the Main Road if you come right straight down. Coming through Cutchogue, there is a traffic light. MR. PILZER: On the Main Road, Route 25? MR. MANERAL: One half mile from there on the right side is Harbor Lane . I should say it is a mile . One half mile down Harbor Lane on the right side is my name on the mail box. The name is as you see it before you. MR. WEINHEIMER: If we used his figures, we would have to raise his assessed valuation. MRS . LYTLE: That is what we just came up with. MR. PILZER: So if I take your assessed figure and divide by 4 or multiply by 25% then you will come to the equal value as your, !assessors determine the value? MR. MANERAL: That' s right. MR. HEUSER: Do you have copies of the tax bills in your possession. MR. PILZER: Yes, would you like to see them? MR. HEUSER: No, just multiply that by 4 and you have the assessed valuation. MRS. SCHWICKER: $500. 00 times 4 is $2 ,000. 00 . MR. HEUSER: I might add for dour benefit, Mr. Pilzer, you are not alone in this. People are so misled by that 12. 28% factor. MR. MANERAL: Are there any other questions that anyone would like to ask Mr. Pilzer? MR. HEUSER: Just a flash, folks. I just found by multiplying out some of these figures, that we are really close on some of these cards. MR. PILZER: That might be. MR. HEUSER: I have 23, who has 24. MR. MANERAL: We have all of the others. MRS . SCHWICKER: They are all together here. MR. HEUSER: They are to be held for refiling. MR. MANERAL: Now, ladies and gentlemen, it is 3: 45, we are supposed Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 90 to be here a while longer. MRS. LYTLE: We sit until 4. MR- MANERAL: We advertised 4 , so we have to sit -.until 4. MRS. LYTLE: Someone might just dash in at 10 to 4 and we not be here. MR. MANERAL: This session is adjourned until 7:00 p.m. tonight here in the assembly hall. MR. MANERAL: Let the record show that the time is 7: 03 P.M. , and a full Board is sitting. No. 27 - Vera Mayer c/o Koeppel Sommer Lesnick Martone Siegel & Fenchel, 155 First Street, Mineola, New York 11501 MR. MANERAL: This is the first application that was received through the mail. MRS. LYTLE: Here we go again. MR. HEUSER: Fishers Island? Oh my God. This is the 3rd year in a row. MRS. LYTLE: What does she claim now? MRS . SCHWICKER: She would like a reduction to $2400. 00 . MR. WEINHEIMER: What is it now? MRS. SCHWICKER: It is now $4800. MR. HEUSER: What did we do last year? You have the card there, it will show. MRS . LYTLE: This is another court case. She wants 50 percent. MRS . SCHWICKER: We didn' t do anything last year. MRS . LYTLE: This is a court case . We can' t do anything. All we have to do. MR. HEUSER: Pardon me, is this still a Court case? MRS. SCHWICKER: Let me see. MRS . LYTLE: What does the form say? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 91 MR. HEUSER: I don 't know, Pat has it in front of her. MRS. LYTLE: Every 2 or 3 years the Court reduces it. Now I tell you what. We neglected from Mel the list of Court cases he was showing us the other day. Do you recall all the folders he had? MR. MANERAL: Would you like that? MRS . SCHWICKER: Was it $2400 she wants a reduction to, Sam? MR. MANERAL: Yes. MRS . LYTLE: Do you know what we would like is a list of the Court cases so we know what we are up against when they show up. Is this Vera Mayer of Fishers Island still a court case or not? Is it just coming up again. MR. MOISA: I can 't tell you. MR. MANERAL: Does it make any difference to us whether it is a Court case of not? MR. HEUSER: If it is a Court case, we don' t touch it. MR. LYTLE: If it isn't, then we answer it. MRS. LYTLE: From this you can' t tell. MRS . SCHWICKER: I'm looking in my notes. MR. MANERAL: What' s her name? MR. HEUSER: Vera Mayer. MR. MANERAL: Here is another one from Vera Mayer. MR. HEUSER: That' s right. There are two parcels. MRS . LYTLE: One is the house . The other is a vacant piece of land, If I am not mistaken. MR. MOISA: I' ll check it out and see . I don't know if we can tell from our records what the situation is or not. MRS. LYTLE: You know Henry, Mel was showing us all the cases that are in litigation. MR. MOISA: Oh. I' ll check it out. MRS. LYTLE: Do you know what I mean. We can make a list of them and you can have them back. MR. HEUSER: I would like to mention something. This woman has not completed this form. Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 92 MRS. LYTLE: What is missing? MR. HEUSER: Additional information on part III. Purchase price of property, date of purchase, amount of mortgage? She doesn' t tell any reason why it should be reduced to $2400. Thereis nothing in there about the town rate or 25% Suffolk rate . MRS. LYTLE: I think she has had it reduced twice anyway. MR. HEUSER: $4800 in 1976. MRS. LYTLE: You know, I think we should buy pieces of property over there and go into business. MRS . SCHWICKER: I've got Donald. No that is Myrer. MR. HEUSER: This other Vera Mayer is complete. No, no, it isn' t. MR. MANERAL: It is like the one you have . MR. HEUSER: No full market value of property, no per cent marked. No equalization figure . MRS . LYTLE: All we can do is return the form and say, sorry we cannot act, form incomplete. MR. HEUSER: Did you find anything? MRS. SCHWICKER: She was not in litigation in 1977. This is 2 years ago. MR. HEUSER: 1977. Reduced by order of the Supreme Court on March 17, 1977. MRS. SCHWICKER: Last year we ruled that the assessment was correct. Valuation of $4800? MR. HEUSER: No, this was on the home. MRS. SCHWICKER: Wait a minute, what are you doing here? MR. HEUSER: There are two of them here. MRS. LYTLE: There is another whole piece of land. MRS. SCHWICKER: That is the one I handed him, the land only. MR. HEUSER: I have both. MRS . SCHWICKER: The land application is the one I'm talking about. It was $4800 two year ago, and she wanted it down to $2400 then too. We judged it as the assessment correct and did nothing. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 93 MR. HEUSER: We ' ll do the same this year. MRS. LYTLE: But the Court reduced it. MRS . SCHWICKER: Now the house . The house was valued at $22 ,000 and she wanted it reduced to $10 , 775 at that time. We judged that assessment correct. That is the house. MR. HEUSER: No. 27 let' s leave that as is. MRS. SCHWICKER: Assessment correct MRS. LYTLE: But it has been reduced by the Courts hasn't it? MR. HEUSER: Not this one, Mabel. This is just a piece of property. MRS . LYTLE: This is just what she wants? MR. HEUSER: Same as last year, no adjustment. No. 28 - Vera Mayer, c/o Koeppel, Sommer, Lesnick, Martone, Siegel Frenchel, 155 First Street, Mineola, New York 11501 (Read Appeal No. 27 for items that refer to this application) . MRS. SCHWICKER: What is she asking for on this one this time? MR. HEUSER: She is asking that the property be reduced to $10 ,775. MRS . SCHWICKER: Same as last year. In 1976 it was reduced by Court order from $35, 300 . Then in 1977 she came back and she wanted it reduced further. After she had the reduction of $22,000. 00 MR. WEINHEIMER: After the Court order she wanted it reduced further? MRS. SCHWICKER: Right. In 1977. This was 2 years ago. I have the same figures here . It was assessed valued at $22 ,000 , and she wanted it down to $10 , 775 .00 then. We said no, assessment correct. MRS. LYTLE: Which one is this? MR. HEUSER: The second Vera Mayer. No. 28. This is the house she had reduced by Court ofder. In 1977 after she had it reduced by a Court order in 1976, she wanted a further reduction, which we denied. MRS. LYTLE: What is the price now? I have $22,000, and she wants it down to $10 , 775 . MR. HEUSER: That' s right. MRS LYTLE: Does she give a reason this time? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 94 MR. HEUSER: May I have the card a minute, Pat? In view of the fact that in 1977, she got this reduction of $13, 300.00 by Court order. Now she wishes it cut in half again. MRS. SCHWICKER: She already applied two years ago for the reduction amount, and we denied it then. We judged that the assessment was correct. MR. WEINHEIMER: This is the second time. MRS. LYTLE: Now the time is up, I think she can go to Court. I think two or three years have to lapse. MRS. SCHWICKER: Let her go, because I don 't think it should be reduced. I know we are not supposed to make any decisions tonight, but my own feelings are that this is the second time she has submitted the same amount, where she got a reduction from the Court already. You can see after the split, her property was continually reduced. MR. HEUSER: I know the piece, I have seen it. She is right on the:, water . No. 29 - Nicholas and Olympia Kouros, Box 509, Mattituck, New York. MR. MOISA: We have a notice of petition here of Vera Mayer against us for the tax year 1978-79 . MRS. SCHWICKER: We just got finished with that. MRS . LYTLE: Can she go to court every 2 years? MR. MOISA: In any of these that are questionable, I think what we will do is contact Cron. He has the latest list on it and everything which is actually activated and which has been settled. MRS. LYTLE: I think that every year Cron gives us the information on every case that he has. MR. MOISA: This one is on Vera Mayer. I think it reads exactly the same location that you have there . MRS. SCHWICKER: No, it' s not. MR. HEUSER: What effect does this petition have on this . Do we just mark it Court case? MRS. SCHWICKER: I 'm just going to mark it litigation. MRS. LYTLE: It has no effect, we just notify her. Cron takes care of that. MR. HEUSER: We notify her that it is declined. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 95 MRS. SCHWICKER: The property is on Main Road, Mattituck , New York. MR. HEUSER: That' s the Pub 75 and the travel bureau. MRS. SCHWICKER: He used to have a camera shop there. MR. HEUSER: What does he want? MRS. SCHWICKER: His total assessment is $10 ,900 and he wants to reduce it to $5, 450. 00. MR. HEUSER: What did we do last year? May I look at that in the mean time? Oh, he has a lawyer on this one , too. MRS. SCHWICKER: Mabel, do you remember if he was last year or 1977? MR. HEUSER: I thought it was last year. MRS. LYTLE: I think he is a perennial. What' s his reason now? MR. HEUSER: He has illegality. Failure of the Town of Southold to assess at full valuation; Hellerstein v. Islip, 37 NY 21. MRS. LYTLE: Here we go. MRS. SCHWICKER: The decision was no change. What was the assessed valuation on that? $10,900. 00 . This was in 1978. MR. HEUSER: He hasn' t been changed since 1970. MRS . SCHWICKER: I didn' t have much on him at all. MR. HEUSER: To what in 1978, the same figure of $5450? MRS. SCHWICKER: I did not note that. MR. HEUSER: I think it was the same figure . It was reduced in 1970 . MR. MANERAL: You mean his assessed valuation has not been changed? MR. HEUSER: No. MRS . LYTLE: He is about due to be increased, I would think. MR. HEUSER: It was reduced $300 in 1970. No. 30A- Grenville T. Emmet, III and Patricia B. Emmet, Box 131, Fishers Island, New York. (Property adjacent to Brickyard Pond. ) MR. MANERAL: We better number that one 30A, becuase we have another one here. The same thing. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 96 MRS . SCHWICKER: The assessed valuation is $29 , 300. 00 and he wants to reduce it to $7, 325. MRS . LYTLE: Would he like us to give it to him. MR. HEUSER: What did we do last year? MRS. LYTLE: Does he give a reason for such a terrific reduction? MRS . SCHWICKER: He is claiming illegality. MR. HEUSER: May I ask a question? Who was the other lawyer who did not show up? The same man? MR. SCHWICKER: This is Stankevich. MRS. SCHWICKER: Notice on these forms here prepared by Stankevich, he does not have Part III filled out in any way. This lawyer does this all the time. Even when he comes before you, he does not have this filled out. You do not have any insurance information, or a market value . MR. HEUSER: Are you referring to Emmet now? MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes, I am. But I am also referring to Stankevich. MRS. LYTLE: Can' t we refuse him on the basis of incomplete forms? MRS . SCHWICKER: They never are. MR. HEUSER: Kours was the same attorney? MRS . SCHWICKER: Yes. Do you want me to see if I can find anything on this Emmet. MR. HEUSER: Stankevich uses the same reason for the complaint. Failure of the Town of Southold to assess at full valuation. And the court case. MRS. SCHWICKER: We had him last year. Both parcels. What does he want a reduction to? MR. HEUSER: He wants from $21, 975 to $7, 325 . MRS . LYTLE: Is that all. MRS. SCHWICKER: This is half of what he wanted last time. Last year he asked for assessment change to $15, 163, now he wants it from $21, 975 .00 to $7, 325 .00 . It is the same figure. MR. HEUSER: In 1978, he was refused? Filed and refused. MRS. SCHWICKER: No change. His total assessment was $29 ,300.00 and he wanted $15, 163. last year. This year he wants the same amount reduced to $7, 325 . MR. MANERAL: He is cutting it in half. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 97 MR. MANERAL: I agree with Mabel on this one, the forms are not complete, and therefore, we are not in a position to handle this. MRS . 'SCHWICKER: He is working on a total assessed valuation of $117, 200. MR. HEUSER: Based on the Hellerstein case. MRS. LYTLE: Does he give any reason? MR. HEUSER: Yes, that Islip case. MR. MANERAL: That is not germaine, is it? MR. HEUSER: That is not the point. MR. MANERAL: Then we are wasting our time on this. I think we ought to just say no change, insufficient information. No. 30B - Grenville T. Emmet, III, and Patricia B. Emmet, Box 131, Fishers Island, New York (property adjacent to Brickyard Pond) . MR. HEUSER: This is the same name as the last one? MRS SCHWICKER: This is the vacant land, I believe. One is the property and the other is the land. MRS. LYTLE: It's the same. MRS. SCHWICKER: This is the land. MR. MANERAL: Same situation. MRS. SCHWICKER: In 1963 it was assessed at $2100 . Same thing here . He wanted a reducation last year to $1,082. What does he want this year? Only $525 .00. MR. MANERAL From $2; 100 to $525 . He doesnot want too mcuh. MRS . SCHWICKER: He claims an over valuation of $1.;575 .00 . The . Hellerstein case. MR. MANERAL: He doesn't explain. MR. HEUSER: Is this supposed to be Stankevich too? MR. MANERAL: Yes, its the same situation. MR. HEUSER: The land has not been increased in value since 1963. MRS. SCHWICKER: It was $2100 then and it is $2100 now and he wants it reduced to $575 . Town of Southold , • Grievance Day - Page 98 MR. HEUSER: What was it in 1977? MRS . SCHWICKER: He wanted. No, this was 1978. It was valued. . . MR. HEUSER: Wait a minute . In 1978, he filed for a big reduction too? MRS . SCHWICKER: These are both 1978. MR. HEUSER: Did we turn it down in 1978? MRS . SCHWICKER: Yes. Assessment correct, no change. MRS . LYTLE: Is this just the land? MR. HEUSER: Yes. MRS . LYTLE: It isn' t worth the postage to notify them. No. 31 James W. B. Benkard and Margaret W. S. Benkar, No. No. Private Road, Fishers Island, New York. MR. HEUSER: That' s a new one. MRS . SCHWICKER: I don't think we have had him before. Total assessed valuation is $26, 300 . 00 and he would like to have it reduced to $8, 784 .00. MRS LYTLE: I wonder where they get those figures? MR. HEUSER: They use that Hellerstein case. MRS. SCHWICKER: It looks as though he sold a piece of the property in 1974 . MR. MANERAL: It looks like that to me, too. MRS. SCHWICKER: They sold another piece in 1978. MRS. LYTLE: If he sold some in 1974 , what was his full value then? MRS. SCHWICKER: $28, 300. 00 . MR. HEUSER: Was it reduced on his card? MRS. SCHWICKER: It was reduced to $26 , 300 in 1978. Now he wants a reduction again. Evidently he feels he is still paying too much on that property. MR. HEUSER: Sale in 1974 for $60, 000. 00 . MRS. LYTLE: Is that the house and lot? Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 99 MR. HEUSER: I would say he. . . .Let me see that form? MR. MANERAL: We have the same thing here that we had before . This is the same attorney, and we don ' t have the completed forms. We waste more time with this. MR. HEUSER: Here is his explanation . The hellerstein case . He does not have to fill out anything else . You agree with me, Mabel? MRS. LYTLE: Yes. There is no excuse . MR. MANERAL: I read somewhere that this cannot be used. MR. HEUSER: It can' t in our town. MRS. SCHWICKER: Why don' t we send Stankevich a letter and tell him that so he doesn' t keep sending us these applications. MR. MANERAL: Just write to the people . MR. MANERAL: That is where they went to court and mandated the 100 percent assessment, didn' t they? MR. MANERAL: Yes. MR. HEUSER: He was assessed in 1978 for $. . . . . MRS . LYTLE: What is this the remainder of the property? MR. HEUSER: He apparently made two sales. The last evaluation of that property was made in 1970. The next one was. . . . . MRS . SCHWICKER: Does that mean that the property was split up twice? MR. HEUSER: I can 't understand it myself. MRS. SCHWICKER: Okay, lets get an assessor. Charlie, can we ask you a few questions, please? MR. WATTS: Fishers Island? No, I'm not. That' s Henry. You have a customer out there. MR. HEUSER: He' s out there. MRS . SCHWICKER: Is Henry out there? Can we speak to him for a few minuntes? MR. WATTS: Henry. Just a second on Fishers Island. MR. HEUSER; Tell him we will be right with him. Henry, what do you know about Benkard? MR. MOISA: I think we had a notice the other day say there was a court settlement on him. MR. HEUSER: Court settlement? Toxon of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 100 MRS. SCHWICKER: Are you Mr. Swiatocha? CARL BASKO, Jr. : No, Mr. Blasko. That is my wife' s maiden name . MRS. SCHWICKER: Would you come here please. MR. MOISA: Why don't you hold this in abeyance . I think there was a settlement on this. I think we got a notice the other day. MRS. SCHWICKER: Can you finish filling out this form for us. MR. MANERAL: There is a table right there. MRS . SCHWICKER: We are going to leave Benkard for a minute and then come back to it. MR. HEUSER: Henry thinks that there was a settlement made on this. He is going to look it up and advise us. No. 32 - Lorraine Swiatoch and Carl Blasko , Jr. , 655 Leslie Road, Peconic, New York (Property on Little Neck Road, Cutchogue, New York) . MRS . SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Blasko. MR. MANERAL: Do you have any statments you would like to make, Mr. Blasko? MR. BLASKO: We haven' t done a thing with the piece of property. It has sat there dormant for the last year, or a little over a year that we have owned it. It has gone up almost 300 percent. MRS. SCHWICKER: He wants a reduced assessment. MR. WEINHEIMER: Is this vacant land? MR. BLASKO: Our wages haven' t gone up that fast. The taxes sure have. MRS. SCHWICKER: $1400 is the asssessed valuation. MR. HEUSER: It is now assessed at $5600. 00. MRS. SCHWICKER: Over valuation claimed is $500 . 00. It would be $700. 00. MR. BLASKO: I was thinking of the last evaluation. MR. MANERAL: That's okay. MR. BLASKO: It was $500. 00. MR. MANERAL: We had better have one of the assessors come in. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 101 MR. WATTS: That is Cutchogue . Little Neck Road, right? MR. HEUSER: The increase in the land value . MR. WATTS: When a developer takes a piece of property and de velopes it into one acre parecels. MR. HEUSER: Subdivision again? MR. WATTS: It is subject to a very low rate on the assessment rolls. When the lot is sold, it is put up to $1400 , when it is built on it goes to $1600. One acre plots. MR. HEUSER: Which means they are valued at $5600. 00. Basically. MR. HEUSER: Do you understand that, Mr. Blasko? MR. BLASKO: Now, I have a question, I would like to ask. Who in the first place authorizes this. The Town, County or State? MR. HEUSER: This is done as a general town decision on subdivisions. MR. BLASKO: To give the developer the break. The developer is not the one who needs the break. It is the common person who gets out and works. Who hasn' t got the money to pay this triple increase. MR. HEUSER: I understand that. It is very difficult for us to say to give anyone a break. This has been the practice when they take farm land and subdivide it. MR BLASKOL I don' t think it is fair that he should get the break and then you sock it to me to make us for what has been lost in the past years. MR. HEUSER: It was never lost on farmland, sir. MR. BLASKO: Yes, but he' s the one who developed it, and he is the one making the large profit on it. He may have bought that property for $3, 000. 00 so he makes a profit of $7, 000. 00 and is sliding on his taxes besides. I have to come along and make up the loss. It is not fair. Maybe the Town should reconsider this. MR. HEUSER: That is what we are here for. MR. BLASKO: I think they should have some type of discussion. MR. HEUSER: Is that your main statement? MR. BLASKO: Yes, I think I am suffering the consequences for his profits. MRS . LYTLE: That is customary through the whole town. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 102 MR. BLASKO: Is it fair to the person who struggles to save money to buy land to build on. They are the ones getting a triple increase. He has the money to buy 8, 10 or 20 pieces of property, he should have money to pay the taxes that I have to pay. Or he shouldn' t buy it. MRS . LYTLE: I'm afraid it is the old story, Buyer beware . You have to look into it when you buy the property. MR. BLASKO: My taxes were $97. 00. I paid that last year. No one tells you. MRS . LYTLE: You paid $97. 00 last year? MR. HEUSER: That' s right on a $500. 00 valuation. MR. BLASKO: Now it will be almost $300 . 00 for a piece of land. MR. HEUSER: Yes, close to it. $280. 00. MR. BLASKO: Yes, almost 300 percent. It' s a" lot of money for just a piece of land with nothing on it. MR. MANERAL: Are there any other questions that anyone has? MR. WEINHEIMER: When you bought this property, your initial value was $1400 wasn' t it? You never had a $500 assessment did you? MR. BLASKO: That is what it was at that time . MR. WEINHEIMER: You did not own it then? MR. BLASKO: We were told the taxes were $97. 00 a year. MRS. SCHWICKER: You were told the assessed valuation was $500 per year? You were not told it would change when you bought the property. Buyer beware. MR. HEUSER: I understand your point. But that was done, even when I bought my property. The fellow said to me the taxes are only $82. 00 on an acre of land. That was 15 years ago. Till I bought it. MR. BLASKO: I would just like to know what kind of action is going to be taken. MR. MANERAL: This committee will only take into consideration what you say. They are not worried about everyone else . MR. BLASKO: As far as the relationship between the developer and the buyer. MRS. SCHWICKER: We take every case individually. MR. MANERAL: That is not within our realm of authority. Our Board Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 103 sits with very limited powers. MR. BLASKO: What do you have to do to change that. MR. MANERAL: You= would have to go before the Town Board or the assessors. Our power is only to listen to the complaints of the tax payer, make a review of the complaint, and we will change or leave it the same, and you will be notified by mail, of our decision about your piece of property. We hope to get it to you before the 15th of August. MR. HEUSER: In the event that you do not think it is right, your next recourse is to go to the tax assessors office and specify your points with them and see what you can do along those lines. MR. BLASKO: That' s all I wanted to know. No. 31 - Benkardt. MR. MANERAL: Henry, did you get us that information on Benkardt? MR. MOISA: I'm wrong. MRS. SCHWICKER: Not based on fair market value. I have here . It was reduced $2, 000. 00 on the house. Market value $113,200. 00 It was purchased for $75,000. 00. My comment was "not based on fair market value . MR. HEUSER: What was the purchase price? MRS . SCHWICER: $75,000. 00 . MR. HEUSER: You said $700, 000. 00 . MRS . SCHWICKER: Market value was $113, 200. 00. That was based on his assess valueation of $28,300 x 4. MR. HEUSER: We have it here $105,000 roughly. This is after the reduction. MRS. SCHWICKER: They want a further reduction. MR. HEUSER: They want a reducation to $8. 764 . 00? MRS . SCHWICKER: So in other words he is trying to say his house is only worth $36 , 103. He paid $75, 000 . 00 ' for it. Forget it. -- MR. HEUSER: He was here last year, Pat. I don 't remember it. But we gave him a $2 ,000. 00 reducation. MRS. SCHWICKER: We granted the reduction because we figured he was being assessed on a market value of $113,200. 00 with the $28, 300 total assessed valuation. So we brought it down, because he stated his purchase price was $75, 000. 00. MR. HEUSER: It comes back to Stankevich using that Hellerstein case. Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 104 MRS . SCHWICKER: No change. U6. 33 - Strong Oil Company, Inc. , (Main Road, Southold, New York, property) P. O. Box 277, Water Mill, New York. MR. HEUSER: This has been here before . MRS . LYTLE: They are the Strong people from Southampton. MRS . SCHWICKER: Bef6re we go any further. I want to say something on No. 32 . It was subdivided and sold and an assessment of $1400 was placed on it. When built on the land assessment will increase to $1600. He said he did not think it was a fair practice . I know we asked the asssors on this. MR. HEUSER: We did. MRS. SCHWICKER: It just doesn' t seem fair to me . MR. HEUSER: It is done on all subdivisions. We ran;.into that big parcel in Orient and in East Marion, and I am repeating myself. It is farmland. MRS. SCHWICKER: I know it is farm land, but why when the farm land is sold to a developer. . . . . MR. HEUSER: Because the developer sells it to the man for that much money �to get the sale. He isn 't going to tell that man that his taxes are going up next year. MRS. LYTLE: It is the story we have said over and over again. Buyer beware . MRS. SCHWICKER: We told him that. But the thing I don' t understand is this went into the hands of the developer from a farmer. I can see it going from a varmer to this gentleman, and see it go from $500 to $1400 . From a farmer to a developer and still stay at $500 . 00, why isn 't it changed then. MR. HEUSER: It is only changed when the developer has his development approved, and he sells to a buyer. MR. MANERAL: Excuse me, it was changed when the developer took it over, but it was changed in part. The farmer did not pay $500. 00 assess- ment. His assessment is only $250. 00 an acre. It goes up in stages. MRS. SCHWICKER: Okay, I guess that answers my question. The developer should be reassessed and pay more. MR. HEUSER: Now on this No. 33, he is using the wrong equalization rate that was in the paper. The 11. 70%. We can save ourselves a lot of Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 105 time. They are using the wrong equalization rate. They are using the one that was published in the paper, instead of the 25%. MRS. LYTLE: Why can 't we get the assessors to put a statement in the paper. We have asked each year, and they just ignore us. MRS. SCHWICKER: Why don't we talk to them right now. MR. HEUSER: Before we do that I also want to stress on this one that there was no change made since 1976. The only thing that matters is that article in the paper made that lawyer feel that this was wrong. MR. MANERAL: Pat can have it in just a minute. No. 34 - Robert Stotsky, Moores Lane, Greenport, New York MRS. SCHWICKER: We have had him before. MR. HEUSER: This name does sound familiar. MRS. LYTLE: What is the name? MR. HEUSER: S T 0 T S K. Y. MRS. LYTLE: No. MR. HEUSER: This is his first increase since 1971. MRS . SCHWICKER: This is just land, right? MR. WEINHEIMER: $8300 for land? MRS. SCHWICKER: Forget it, he does not have his form filled out. If you turn one down, you have to turn them all down. What does he say in his letter. MR. HEUSER: "We are writing to complain about the property taxes. The house has been partially assessed since moving in December, 1971. In 1977 one half of the: second story was finished which contained two bedrooms and one bathroom, so one half of a two story house remains unfinished. Therefore, I feel a full assessment should not be assessed. At this time I feel the land and home should be assessed at $7500 rather than the $8300 at which we are being assessed at this time. " What he is saying is that the assessors assumed the house was 100% completed, and they claim it is not. The letter is explanatory. MRS. SCHWICKER: When was he assessed? What was that first date? MR. HEUSER: He was assessed on March 15 , 1978 . MRS. LYTLE: What does the card show the house as? Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 106 MR. HEUSER: At this point it is at $42 ,000 . MRS. LYTLE: Does the card show the house finished? Or what? What does it say about the condition of the house. MR. HEUSER: It gives the appearance that it is finished, yes. MRS. LYTLE: It mentions flooring, heating, etc. MR. HEUSER: Foundation, basement, walls, fireplace, type of roof, oak floors, sheet rock, hotwater heat. MRS . SCHWICKER: What is the land assessed for there? MRS . LYTLE: It would sound finished, but he may not have the partitions in. MR. HEUSER: The land remains at $1100 . Now, we need an assessor. Greenport assessor. MR. MANERAL: The size of the land is a little smaller than a half acre of land. MRS. LYTLE: That is another one of those questionable things. MR. HEUSER: The letter is self-explanatory. I know the form isn't filled, out, but the letter does explain the situation. The assessor might have to go over there and review it. MRS. LYTLE: The assessor would have to go inside to review it. It' s their right to assume unless they are invited in. MR. HEUSER: Mel , Robert Stotsky, Moores Lane North, Greenport, New York, claims you have him assessed at 100% and the house is still not completed. In 1977 only one half of the second story was finished into two bedrooms and a bath. MR. KELSEY:- . Do you have the card here? It has been carried as a partial assessment since 1973 . That is almost 6 years now. We were there on March 15 , 1978 for completion $1500 . MR. HEUSER: $7217 what does that mean. MR. KELSEY: That is the completion figure. We couldn't get in because he was not living there at the time. So we assumed that he had completed it. MR. HEUSER: Do you agree someone should go down there? MR. KELSEY: Absolutely. We will want to gat inside though. MRS . LYTLE: Sure. MRS . KELSEY: At our convenience. Not on a Saturday or Sunday. Town of Southold . Grievance Day - Page 107 MR. WEINHEIMER: We can advise them by letter. MRS . LYTLE: The only thing with advising them by letter is by the time they get the letter and answer you, we will be ready to close our roles. In the past, we have turned the card over to the assessor and asked him to go at his first opportunity and report back to us. We have done that in several cases. MR. KELSEY: I don't want to may too many trips down there and waste all that gas. MRS . SCHWICKER: How bout if we call? MR. HEUSER: Not us , them. MRS. SCHWICKER: We should let them know that unless they allow the assessors to gain entrance, they cannot have their complaint solved. MRS . LYTLE: We have had complaints where they houses were not finished. The assessor went out and double checked. MRS . SCHWICKER: That is not the case now. That was when the people were here. These people are not. What I said, would it be within our jurisdiction to call and let them know that they must allow the assessors in their house before we sit for decision. MRS . LYTLE: I have no objection to that, but my only thought is that the assessors should do the calling, not us. That way the assessor can make the date at his convenience. This way Sam could make a date that does not work out for everyone. MR. KELSEY: How about tomorrow or Thursday? MR. MANERAL: I agree with Mabel. I think if we can short circuit on extra people involved in this, it would facilitate things. MR. HEUSER: In other words let Mel do the calling and arranging for the appointment. MR. KELSEY: I ' ll start calling tomorrow and continue to call until I get an answer. MR. HEUSER: Try them tonight. Ther is a grievance meeting now. See if they are home. MR. KELSEY: My phone call from home? MRS . LYTLE: Call right from here in the office. MR. KELSEY: I ' ll return and let you know what this is. No. 35 - Walter H. Burden, Jr. , and Ann Margaret Burden, 316 Fourth Town of Southold , • Grievance Day - Page 108 Street, Greenport, New York. MRS. SCHWICKER: The total assessed valuation is $6 ,000. 00, and they would like a reduction to $3 ,000. 00 MRS . LYTLE: Do they give a reason? MR. HEUSER: Any reason, Patricia? MRS. SCHWICKER: They list comparable propert*es. MRS. LYTLE: Do they have a nieghbor they_.are comparing with? MRS . SCHWICKER: "Request for reduction of assessment is based on fact that all comparables adjoin in sequence on same Greenport Harbor frontage with all deeds extending to high water of Greenport Harbor. In the instance of (5) and (3) , land area far exceeds the subject (1) Burden, as does Greenport Harbor frontage and other physical features of the property. He -gives some more instances. Based on the above comparables Miller (2) is valued excessively therefore not of consequence to this request as immediately adjoining and similar. Surveys of all properties indicating physical location dimensions of each topographical detAils are available if required. Deeded land area and Greenport Harbor waterfront footage of comparables v/s land of Burden. " You have to look at these comparables. MRS. LYTLE: This is the first time we have had comparables in a long time. We used to have a lot of them. MRS. SCHWICKER: This is the place. It has 1.1 acre. This is the thing I do not understand. What is this figure doing in here? Was there a building at one time on this property? MR. HEUSER: I would say yes. MRS. SCHWICKER: Then was it subdivided. MR. HEUSER: Way, way back a long time ago. MRS . SCHWICKER: That was split? MR. MANERAL: Let 's see what Charles has to say about this? MR. HEUSER: What about Walter H. Burden, Jr. Here is the thing. Originally in 1953 there was a house in there. MR. WATTS : I think that is the piece down there right on the harbor opposite Mills, the canvas man. I think this is the piece right across the street. Let me look it up and make sure. If it is, this is a beau- tiful piece of property. MR. HEUSER: They use the 12. 28% rate on this too. On the Burden form, he wrote you a letter, he did not fill out the form? Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 109 MRS. SCHWICKER: He did fill out a specific amount. MR. HEUSER: On the left hand side. MRS . SCHWICKER: Wait a minute, what are you talking about? MR. HEUSER: And he used the 12. 28 rate. MRS . SCHWICKER: We also agreed once before, if they do give you a specific amount that you want, even though the rate is the wrong rate, he did specify $3000 which is half of what he is assessed for. You have to work on that figure. Either you think he can use it or he can't. MR. KELSEY: I have trying to get in touch with the Stotskys. There is no answer. I will check with the Building Department tomorrow morning to see if they have a CO. If they have a CO issued, the building is completed. MR. HEUSER: And you will so advise us. MR. WEINHEIMRER: Can they have a CO and still not have the upstairs not finished. MRS. SCHWICKER: You can Mel. You can get a CO without your upstairs finished. MR. KELSEY: I doubt it. MRS. SCHWICKER: I got one. MR. KELSEY: Do you know, Babs? MRS. CONROY: It depends what the building permit says. If the upstairs is supposed to be finished. MRS. SCHWICKER: It depends on the plans. MRS. CONROY: But they do mark the plans. If there are no plans for the upstairs then it is supposed to be left unfinished. MRS. SCHWICKER: They have been marking the plans unfinished attic for years though. MR. KELSEY: Let me have that card and I will hold it out for a day or so. See if I can' t reach them. MR. WATTS: That is the piece of property I told you about. You know where the railroad dock is? Going south from there, down fourth street. This is the corner of Flint and Fourth. It runs from Fourth Street all the way down Flint to the bay. It looks right over to Shelter Island. It is a' beautiful piece of property. In fact it is no nice , I would like to have it myself. MR. HEUSER: Getting back to this man. In 1969 he was assessed at Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 110 $8,000. 00 and now he is only assessed at $6,000 . 00 . What' s he kicking about? Oh, the land was split. MRS. SCHWICKER: Some of the property was sold off. MRS. LYTLE: What does he want it reduced to now? MRS . SCHWICKER: He wants it reduced to $3000 . 00. MR. HEUSER: This has me puzzled. Listen to this carefully. Land assessed at $6000. 00, times the rate equals $48, 000. 00. The uses a rate of 8. 8 what? MR. MANERAL: It had to be $8. 00. MR: HEUSER: Where did they get that figure? MR. MANERAL: I don' t know. MR. HEUSER: Is that possible Charlie? MR. WHATTS: I don't know why he would $8. 00 . MRS. CONROY: Maybe it is the Village rate. MR. HEUSER: They do the same thing for every piece of property. $3700 x rate equals $$29 ,600. 00. MR. WATTS: I still don't know where he got 8 from. MRS. LYTLE: Does anyone know anything about the Greenport rate? MR. MANERAL: The only connection I can make with the 8 is that it would be 2 times as much 4 . So he is problably using the 12. 28 percentage. MR. HEUSER: He did use that rate. MR. WATTS: You cannot multiply the assessment by the equalization rate and tet the value of the property. MR. HEUSER: He used the 12. 28 figure. MRS. LYTLE: Now you know a new one. MRS . SCHWICKER: But I remember saying last year that we would dis- regard that figure on the forms. If they stated amounts they wanted it reduced for, then we would consider the forms. MRS. LYTLE: What is your decision on Burden? MR. HEUSER: Nothing, yet. MRS. SCHWICKER: My feeling that before that property was split he never came in. It was at 15 ,000 when the original owner had. Geddes had Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 111 it and then he willed it. Then the original parcel was sold. It was split in 1978. Whoever bought it, split it. It was not questioned from 1979 to 1978, as far as the assessed valuation goes on it. It was only questioned after the split. In other words they felt it wasn' t reduced enought after it was split. MR. MANERAL: They sold . 872 acres for $20,000. 00 . MRS. SCHWICKER: Those figures seem all right to me though. If the assessment is $8000 total assessment on a $70, 000 purchase price and $20 , 000 for that amount and it was reduced to $6000. That sounds correct to me. MR. MANERAL: I think it is about right when you figure the sale off of the property all the way through and he sold . 872 acres for $20, 000 from a $70, 000 parcel. So he still has $50, 000 worth of value . It is only assessed at $6, 000 . 00. It sounds reasonable. MR. HEUSER: The only thing is he has us over the barrel on these comparatives. MR. MANERAL: Well, he has used the wrong figure the whole way through so they would be comparable. MR. HEUSER: He has 200 feet on the water and 230 feet deep. The next man has 168 on the water and 232 feet deep. Okay. The next one is 340 on the water and 405 feet. MR. MANERAL: His multiplication is correct, but he used the wrong figures. MRS. LYTLE: What does the 8 represent? MR.HEUSER: 8 represents a factor that is equivalent of 12. 28 of 100 . MR. MANERAL: Some people have used the 12. 28 today. Some have used the 11. 70 . MR. HEUSER: Charlie Watts said to me that this is a prime piece of land. He says it is one of the best pieces of land along that water front, and as far as he is concerned the assessed value is fair. MR. MANERAL: Let' s put it to bed. MRS . LYTLE: No change. No. 36 - Edward P. Jurzenia, P. O: Box 258, Silvermere Road, Greenport, New York. MR. MANERAL: I think we will waste no time on that. Total assse0sed valuation $1100 MRS. SCHWICKER: Again, we cannot do anything on this because it is Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 112 not filled out completely. There is no figure that he wants to reduce it to. MR. MANERAL: There is no monetary amount. MRS. SCHWICKER: That little note there in the middle means nothing. MR. HEUSER: No information at all. MRS. LYTLE: No action. No information was supplied. No. 37 - Irving G. Pitman & wife, 2 Coppell Drive , Tenafly, New Jersey 07670. (Property on Ruch Lane , Southold, New York. MRS . SCHWICKER: It is reference to the property on Ruch Lane, Southold, New York. Total valuation $1000 , he would like it reduced to $900 as it was. MR. WEINHEIMER: Land only? MRS. SCHWICKER: Right. It was $900 in 1968 and 10 years later they increased it to $1,000. 00 I see no reason. . . . MR. HEUSER: Previous assessment date was what? MR. MANERAL: January 22, 1968. MR. HEUSER: It was how much? MRS. LYTLE: $900 and they raised to $1,000. 00 MR. HEUSER: No action. No. 38 - Charles Rand, Maple Lane, Southold, New York MR. MOISA: We have a situation here that Mr. Rand has filed an application, but it is not the right application. It is filed on a notice of 1978-79. He was, at least as far as my knowledge was concerned, he was sent new notices, because this is a filed subdivision today. The map is right here on this. This is on the books as of 1979-80 roll as a filed map. In other words, each one of these has a separate assessment. This is one lot, this is another, this is another. In other words there will be five assessments against this subdivision. He has sold this property and this property. These he does not own. Now, he would like to appear before the Board to explain the situation. I have the cards on this sub- division, and it is up to you what you want. MR. HEUSER: To understand this right, when you talk about lots, 2 , 3 , Town of Southold • • Grievance Day Page 113 4 , 5, and 7. I'm talking right here . That is on the other side of the State Road. You say it is part of this man' s property. MR. MOISA: It is filed as one lot. MR. HEUSER: Okay. MR. RAND: Henry, is it all right for me to make my statement? MR. HEUSER: You will have to be sworn in. MR. MOISA: If you want to check these assessments, you will see what I am trying to explain. In other words lot no. 2, total assessment of $2400 . The spot assessment is 50. 00 on the south of the road. The rest of the assessment is on the upland. MR. HEUSER: That is true of all the cards? MR. MOISA: That is true of No. . 4, No. 5 and No. 6 , which is the upper lot on the sound. The rest of these cards are properties that Mr. Rand has sold. This is Hellman's side, and this is in the name of Thayer. MRS, SCHWICKER: Wait a minute . MR. MANERAL: We can' t do anything for you unless you fill out one of these forms for each lot that you are referring to. MR. RAND: May I just take two seconds and explain it: This will be difficult to do. MR. MANERAL: It may be difficult, but we are strapped by law that we cannot act on anything unless you tell us exactly what you are looking for in black and white. MR. RAND: There is no way I can explain this on that form, sir. I just need two seconds. MR. MANERAL: Use any form you want. But give us the details that we can work on. MR. RAND: Can I show you this on the survey? MR. MANERAL: We need this work so when we sit down as a committee to review all the complaints that come before us, we will have all the information at our beck and call. MRS . LYTLE: Do you have some forms for him? MR. RAND: Actually, sir, there was just something here that I did not understand. MRS. SCHWICKER: Do you want to ask him if he has the figure that he wants it reduced to? MR. RAND: I can' t give it to you. All I want to show you if I may. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 114 It will only take two minutes of your time. MRS. SCHWICKER: Can we swear him in first? MR. HEUSER: Swear him in. Is everything on? MRS . CONROY: Okay. MRS. SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Rand. MR. RAND: I have nothing but Town records to discuss. MRS . SCHWICKER: Okay. MR. RAND: Now, if I may and if the Board members will. Originally I owned this whole piece . Both on the north side of the road and on the south side of the road. This was tax map and this was another for -10 years until I had it subdivided. Okay? MRS. SCHWICKER: Before you continue, sir, will you please sign the back of this card? MR.RAND: I sold the original piece to Dr. Hellman and his wife, and I sold this piece to Mrs. Thayer. If you will just bear with me. I get four bills, let' s not talk about money, let's just talk about bills and assessments. That is my only thing about coming up here and trying to find out where the rationale is. North of Thayer, south on the Main Road, Weigland. This piece here. MR. HEUSER: That' s the one marked Rand? MR. RAND: That is just for lots 2 and 3. MR. HEUSER: Okay, I got it. MR. RAND: North by the Main Road. All I 'm doing is just giving you the jigsaw puzzle here. MR. MANERAL: That is four and five. MR. HEUSER: May I interrupt at this point? These two lots, 2 & 3 are marked C. R. Rand. I presume they are in your name? MR. RAND: I own 2 , 3 , 4 5 , and 6 , and 2, 3, 4 and 5 . MR. HEUSER: At this point though 2 & 3 are the first two we are discussing, correct? MR. RAND: May I just go through with this, it will make it a- lot easier. Let me just leave that right there. This bill is for here. North by the Main Road, it is for these two little pieces here. Okay, now 4, 5, and 6 is assessed at 9200. Forget the south part of the road. MR. MANERAL: These three parcels? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 115 MR. RAND: That is $9200 and forget anything south of the road. These 2 which are bigger than these 2 are assessed for $1700. Now, because the last thing that I got from the Town, Mrs. Thayer ' s property was assessed at $3000. That is only 150 some odd feet on the bay. This is 250 feet. So I doubled it. So, I thought to $6000 for that. Even though these two pieces are smaller than these two pieces. I even took the assessed valuation that the Town gave me over there for $1700 and added it up and only got $7700 . Sir, I submit there is a bill for $9200. I don' t understand it. MR. HEUSER: Which lots are these, sir? MR. RAND: The $9200. That is for these 3 pieces 4 , 5, and 6 . MR. HEUSER: 4 is $3, 000, 5 is $3;500 which make $6500 and 6 is $5, 00 which totals $11, 500. MR. RAND: Now, wh&t Henry just said is something that I have never received. Here is my whole file on this whole piece of property. Those are the last things I received on the assessed valuation of the property. They correspond with the bills that I have here. But then Henry says they sent something out in June and as of tonight I was not aware of that. We were just discussing that. MR. HEUSER: The last items on here, and we better get Henry here . August 25, 1978 , Henry, you have $6500 and $5 ,000 totalling $11, 500. applied on lots 4 , 5, and 6. MR. MOISA: May I first say that these bills are related to a year ago. They are not the ones for this present tax roll. Those bills are for the 1978-79 . Am I right. MR. HEUSER: Paid March 31, 1979. MR. RAND: That is the present year. MR. HEUSER: These are last year' s tax bills. MR. MOISA: What I want to say is this property was subdivided, where Mr. Rand sold a piece to Dr. Hellman and his wife. These are predicated on the apportionment of that property prior to Mr. Rand filing a subdivision map. Now since then as the dates show here, 8/25/78. Okay, as of that date we received a filed map from the County stating that the land was a filed subdivision. This is the way it appears on our tax rolls today. MR. HEUSER: May I interupt at this point? Mr. R&nd by using the last year' s tax bills, there is no relation to this at all. These were established as Grievance Day last year. August 25, 1978. MR. MOISA: I don' t think there was any grievance. MR. HEUSER: You missed the point. After we met, this map was filed. MR. RAND: I must tell you I missed Grievance Day last year because Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 116 everything was up in the air. In other words, not to be melodramatic, I had a sheriff breathing on my neck, when I sold to Dr. Hellman. That was handled. Then I had some more ex-marital problems that I had to solve that one when Mrs. Thayer bought her land. Grievance Day was the last thing from my mind. The only thing was when I had this folder, I get these bills on January 1, 1979 , which is our present year to pay this year . I just looked at it based on a survey that I have at home, that was filed with the County on a whim. If these two pieces which are bigger were assessed at $1700, how can these three be assessed at $9200. When these three pieces are smaller. So If Mrs . Thayer' s wasn' t sold, I have a thing here, that would be $3, 000: So if you add $3000 to the $1700 , that is only $4700. Here I am at $9200 for less valued property. It is next to a public beach with latrines right on it and people throw all their garbage there . So that was the only thing. I did come down here and Henry was nice enough to tell me that there is a Grievance Day. MRS . SCHWICKER: What is on the cards right now? MR. HEUSER: On lots 4, 5, and 6 is just what I just got finished saying. MRS . SCHWICKER: The assessed valuation is what? MR. HEUSER: $3000, $3500 and $5000 totalling $11, 500. 00. Lots 4 , 5 and 6 after it was subdivided. MRS . SCHWICKER: It is up from the $9200 to $11, 500 on the cards? MR. HEUSER: This is the first time it was assessed. MR. MOISA: Those first figures are before it was subdivided. MR. HEUSER: This is after the subdivision. MR. MOISA: As I said before, this is what will appear on the present rolls, what you are working with now. MRS. SCHWICKER: Okay, now what are lots 2 and 3? MR. HEUSER: I was just going to try and find them. MR. MANERAL: Lot No. 2 . MR. RAND: Wait a minute. Henry just explained. This is now going to be lot no. 2 and lot 2 , lot 3, lot 4 and lot 5 . MR. HEUSER: That is what I am looking for. Here is 2 and 3. They are on the present roll at $5100 . MR. RAND: Now wait a minute. Which lot is this? MR. HEUSER: Lot 2 is $2400 . Lot 3 is $2700 . MR. RAND: This and on the other side of the road? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 117 MR. HEUSER: Henry says yes. MR. RAND: Lot 3 is what? MR. HEUSER: $2700. MR. RAND: Lot 4? MR. HEUSER: $3, 000 . 00 MR. RAND: Lot 5? MR. MANERAL: $3500 . MR. RAND: Lot 6? MR. MANERAL: $5,000. 00 MRS . SCHWICKER: Lot 6 is $5000 and you said Mrs. Thayer' s was $3000? MR. RAND: That is the letter that I got. MRS. SCHWICKER: You say Mrs . Thayer' s is not as large as Lot 6? MR. RAND: Right. MRS. SCHWICKER: Okay. MR. HEUSER: Pardon me, Mr. RAnd. They have Mrs. Thayer' s acreage exactly the same as lot 6. MR. RAND: It is almost the same. In square area it is the sante . MR. HEUSER: I 'm talking about square area. MR. RAND: That's true. MR. MANERAL: But this is 100 feet more of beach front than Thayer has. MR. RAND: That' s right. But it is not as deep. And it is next to a public beach with latrines next to it, which is almost impossible to sell. Every time they come to take a look at the property, someone is there. MRS . SHCWICKER: Which beach is this? MR. RAND: The East Marion beach. 7'm sorry I came up, because you raised it. MR. HEUSER: There is no complaint on Hellman's property? MR. RAND: I don' t speak for the doctor. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 118 MR. HEUSER: Again, what is you wish. MR. RAND: I think you better throw the whole thing away at this moment. I will take the $9200. I came up here not to upset anyone, but I couldn' t understand it. As I said to Henry, I would just like to know what's going on. Little did I know the assessment was going to be increased. MR. HEUSER: Let' s go back to Lot 2. It has 1. 645 in acreage and $2400. MRS . LYTLE: How much is the acreage? MR. HEUSER: 1. 645 . The next one the gentleman has down here as 1. 719 as $2700. MR. RAND: May I ask why that should be $300 higher? MR. HEUSER: Footage on the road. MR. RAND: Because it is not as deep. MRS . LYTLE: But it is on the road. MR. HEUSER: Now we come to lot 4. MR. RAND: I want to go home . I don 't want to waste any more of your time . I 've had it. MR. HEUSER: Lot 4 has 190 feet and that is assessed at $3000. Lot 5 , 2 . 016 acres or 220 on road and 260 on other. There is your answer for the $3500. The road footage on these properties works into how much they are assessed for. Now, No. 2, pick up from me. MR. RAND: Can I tell you, I want to go home . MRS . LYTLE: The feeling is mutual. What was the point of his being here? MR. HEUSER: He was questioning the valuation in accordance with their size. MRS. CONROY: I put this down as case No. 38? MR. HEUSER: Yes, 38. MRS . CONROY: I have one question. I need an address for Mr. Rand. No. 40 - Countrywide Management Associates, Inc. , 801 Mount Sinai Coram Road, Mount Sinai, New York 11766. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 119 MR. MANERAL: The inside says inequality. The land is assessed for $12, 500. 00. MR. WEINHEIMER: It is only land? MR. HEUSER: It is only land. MR. MANERAL: That the full market value is $65 ,000 based on the equalization rate of 12. 28%. MR: HEUSER: Let me inject something right now. The previous assessment was in 1969. At that time it was sold for $50,000. 00. Today, multiplying by our factor, it is assessed at $50, 000 and that is 10 years later. MRS. LYTLE: Where do I get the $65,000 from? MR. HEUSER: He claims the full market value is $65 ,000. He used the wrong factor. MR. MANERAL: The right factor would take it back to what? MR. HEUSER: Would bring it up to $50 ,000 even. Exactly what he paid for it in 1969. MRS. LYTLE: He ' s complaining? MR. MANERAL: He used that wrong figure again. MR. HEUSER: Now, full market value $65, 000. 00 MR. WEINHEIMER: Is that based on the equalization rate? MR.HEUSER: No, what he has done, he has given us the full market value on the form. It has nothing to do with it. Getting back to his equalization rate . He has arrived at a figure naturally complaining. . . He doesn' t say how much he wants. MRS. LYTLE: So, we can't do anything. MR. MANERAL: Then we can' t act on it. MR. HEUSER: Form not complete, cannot act on it. Pat has got to catch up to us on 40 . No. 41 - Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. 31 Tennyson Avenue, Westbury, New York. MR. HEUSER: That' s a court case. Right, gentlemen? MR. WATTS : I think so. MR. KELSEY: Three years in a row. Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 120 MRS. CONROY: So you can' t act on that? MRS. LYTLE: We have to acknowledge its and turn it down. MR. WEINHEIMER: Is that No. 41? MRS . LYTLE: Yes. MR. HEUSER: Which property is that because there is going to be more than one . MRS . LYTLE: There are two. MR. HEUSER: This is Pipes Neck Road, Southold, New York. Pat, catch up to us. No. 40 was Countrywide Management. Form incomplete, no action. No. 42 - Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. 31 Tennyson Avenue , Westbury New York. (Pipes Neck Road, Southold, New York 11. 1 acres) . MR. MANERAL: Why shouldn 't this be 41B since the other was 41? MRS . LYTLE: They are two different parcels, so each should have two different forms. MRS . SCHWICKER: These are court cases , so we cannot deal with them. MRS. SCHWICKER: Okay, 41 MRS. LYTLE: Mel, we cannot keep people out if they want to be heard. MR. KELSEY: Those doors should actually be locked at 9 :00 o'clock. The legal notice said from 7-9 p.m. If there is anyone in here they have to be heard, but you cannot let anyone else in after 9 :00: MRS . LYTLE: We cannot let anyone in after 9? MR. HEUSER: The gentlemen say the hours run from 7-9. MR. WEINHEIMER: The paper said from 7-9. If people are here we finish with them. MR. WATTS : No one can come in after that. MR. HEUSER: What is on the property on Pipes Neck Road? MRS. LYTLE: I don ' t think there is anything there. MR. HEUSER: At one time there was a theatre there? MR. WATTS: There is nothing there now. MR. HEUSER: That is the court case . Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 121 MR. WATTS: It' s vacant land now. MRS . LYTLE: It is a court case . MR. HEUSER: Is this land? MR. WATTS: If there was a building on it, there would be a figure in this column. MR. HEUSER: Okay, No. 41 is land only. Court case. Still in court isn' t, it Charlie? Okay. Do you have it Patricia? MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes. MR. HEUSER: Who has 42? MR. MANERAL: You are jumping the gun. MRS. SCHWICKER: They are both litigation. MR. HEUSER: Yes, that is land only. On 42 there is a debatable point. MRS . SCHWICKER: If it is litigation. MR. HEUSER: The land is being filled in, recheck. This is what is on thecard. MRS . LYTLE: What is the date on the statement? MR. HEUSER: The last assessed value was 1970. MRS. LYTLE: You mean they raised it? MRS. SCHWICKER: But Ted, I thought you said we could not do any- thing on it when it was litigation. MR—HEUSER: I don 't know if this is. We have to ask one of the assessors. MR. MANERAL: They went home. MR. HEUSER: They did, they aren't allowed. Last, year you had 2 Westbury Equipments, Pat. MRS. LYTLE: Isn' t there any mail? MR. HEUSER: This is what we are handling. MRS. LYTLE: Is thre any more after this? MR. MANERAL: We have all the cards and forms here . Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 122 No. 43 - 235 Mill Street, Inc. c/o Koeppel, Sommer, Lesnick, Martone, Siegel & Fenchel, 155 First Street, Mineola, New York 11501. (Propetty MR. MANERAL: There is a lot of stuff here, and I 'm going to let you read it Pat. MRS. SCHWICKER: Oh yes, MR. HEUSER: This is a court case also, isn' t it. MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes, this is a court case MR. HEUSER: It was reduced by Court order. MRS. LYTLE: When was it reduced? MR. HEUSER: In 1977. MRS. LYTLE: Then I doubt that it can come up again in two years time . Doesn't it have to be 3 years? MR. HEUSER: Yes, in 1977. What do they say there, Sam? MRS . SCHWICKER: Was it reduced in 1977 by Court order? That is when it was before us. MR. MANERAL: Where is the form? MRS. LYTLE: Don' t they have to wait three years? MR. HEUSER: I don't remember. Honestly, I don' t. remember. MRS. SCHWICKER: What was the Court action in 1977? MR. HOUSER: 12-5-77. It was reduced from $52,000 to $32 , 000. In 1972 , it was reduced from $63, 000 to $32, 000 since 1967 MRS. LYTLE: Just about in half. You and I pick up the difference. MR. HEUSER: Where is that in Greenport? South Street, Do you know that Babs? MRS. CONROY: That' s your A&P. MRS . HEUSER: They are having trouble with the '7illage right now. MRS. LYTLE: Did you see the beautiful deal the Town made with them? MRS. SCHWICKER: In 1977, 235 Mill Street, Mineola, New York. Assessed valuation was $52, 000 and wanted it reduced to $26, 000. 00. MR. HEUSER: Gave them $32 ,000 . 00 Twon of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 123 MRS . SCHWICKER: The decision was that the assessment was correct. MR. HEUSER: But by Court order it was reduced to $32, 000. 00 MRS. SCHWICKER: They wanted $26 , 000 and ended up with $32,000. MRS . LYTLE: Now they are playing poor mouth with the Village of Greenport about that parking lot, and Greenport is going to put the parking lot in A-one condition. MR. HEUSER: Now they want it cut in half. MRS. SCHWICKER: What kind of a reduction do they want now? MR. HEUSER: 50 per cent. MRS. SCHWICKER: Of what? MR. HEUSER: $16 ,000 . Firs£' of all in 1977 reduction of $20 ,000 . MRS. LYTLE: I still think these things should be given more publicity. MR. HEUSER: I agree with you. 1979 they want $50% This again is going to be litigation. All we can say is no action. MRS. LYTLE: We have to notify them all the same . No. 44 -Donald G. King, Rocky Point Road, East Marion, New York MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 1 he is using the 11. 70 rate, and he has a illegality box checked off which would only indicate that it would be valid if it were outside the town, so illegaility is not a reason. MRS . SCHWICKER: The assessed valuation is $14 , 000 . 00 and he wishes it reduced to $10 ,000. 00 . MR. WEINHEIMER: Secondly, his full market value is $95,000. 00 . If you multiply the $14 , 700 by 4 you get around $55 ,000. 00. He is market value exceeds the assessed valuation. MRS. LYTLE: He is under assessed. It 's in our authority to raise this. He would surely get a shock. MRS. SCHWICKER: As Bill says, he places his full market value at $95 ,000. 00 and what did you say the other worked out to? MR. WEINHEIMRER: You are talking about $58, 800. 00 . MR. MANERAL: But he used the wrong equalization figures. He used the 11. 70 percent. MR. WEINHEIMER: That is how he got the 95, 000 which overstates the full market value. Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 124 MR. HEUSER: Mel, could you please as assessors publish in the newspapers prior to Grievance Day, how the Town of Southold arrives at a tax base figure of 25%, so we could get away from this 12 . 28% thing that creeps in all the time. MR. KELSEY: I ' ll check with Mr. Ryan, to see if we can put some- thing like that in. I imagine it will be news worthy anyway. It's good publicity. MRS. SCHWICKER: People keep coming in here with the wrong figures. MR. KELSEY: The Suffolk Time is the one starting it this year. MR. HEUSER: I don 't know what the answer is on this yet. MRS. LYTLE: The answer is definitely no. MRS. SCHWICKER: What does it say on the front of that form? Which piece is it. Underneath. Circle Drive, East Marion, New York. MR. KELSEY: That is the third year in a row that he has filed for this . MRS. SCHWICKER: We had him before. MR. HEUSER: What did we do with him? MR. WEINHEIMER: What do we have? Two for King? MR. LYTLE: Is there another King? MRS. SCHWICKER: This is the third year in a row? Evelyn King? MR. HEUSER: Donald King. MRS. LYTLE: What does he want? MR. HEUSER: He wants it reduced to $10, 000. 00, from $14, 700 . He has the wrong equalization rate in there . MRS. LYTLE: Does he give a valid reason? MR. HEUSER: No, he uses the wrong equalization rate. MRS. LYTLE: We could have a standard paragraph about the equalization rate stuck in the letter. MR. HEUSER: There were no changes made in this property. MRS. SCHWICKER: Wait a minute. Donald G. King, Rocky Point Road. Parcel 1000=21-3-16 . Assessed valuation Land of $1800, buildings $12, 900 . It comes to $58,800. 00 . Our comment was. Underassessed and lack of in- formation. Decision: No change . MR. HEUSER: He filed in 1978? Town of Southold Grievance Day - Page 125 MRS. SCHWICKER: That was for that parcel, and he has another one. MR. HEUSER: He wants the same thing again, so that is no action. No, but he has a lawayer, Munzel, from Riverhead, this time. Mr. 45 - Donald G. King, Rocky Point Road, East Marion, New York (Property at 110 Front Street, Greenport, New York) . MR. MANERAL: He is still using those crazy figures. MRS. SCHWICKER: But he is stating what he wants it reduced to. He has a total assessed valuation of $50, 200. 00. Last year his total assessed valuation was $49 , 700 .00 . MR. HEUSER: Who' s got the card. MRS. SCHWICKER: Our decsion last year was: Cannot take action. Did not return forms. This was our decision. Our comment: The assess- ment was correct. File financial business form. Evidently we gave him the forms, but he never returned them. MR. HEUSER: Is that the Colonial Drug building? MRS. SCHWICKER: That is the old Grants building. MR. HEUSER: Okay. That has been renovated, hasn' t it? It didn ' t increase his valuation, did it? MRS. SCHWICKER: It was increased from last year. From $49,700 to $50, 200 . 00. MRS . CONROY: What does he want it reduced to? MR. WEINHEIMER: $15,000 . 00. MR. HEUSER: Value of the property is $143,000. 00. And he is assessed at $50, 00: That would be $200, 000. Full market value is much less than what the assessed value . It was worth $200, 000 before it was renovated. Now its worth less. No. 46 Eylene H. King, Box 63, Rocky Point Road, East Marion, New York. MR.- MANERAL: This is Mrs. King. MRS. CONROY: This must be the IGA building. MR. WEINHEIMER: They are using the wrong equalization rate again, and they have illegaility checked. Town of Southold + • Grievance Day - Page 126 No. 39 - Alexander G. and Margo E. Sarris, Bay Avenue, East Marion, New York. (Rhodos Pavilion) No. 46 - Eylene H. King, Box 63, Rocky Point Road, East Marion, New York. MRS . SCHWICKER: This is reference to the Front Street, Greenport, property. Total assessed valuation $28,600 .00 . She would like a reduction to $6 ,000. 00. MR. HEUSER: Has it been increased recently? MRS. SCHWICKER: Her last assessed valuation was 1969 . MR. HEUSER: When in 1969, please may I see it? MRS. SCHWICKER: April. MR. HEUSER: $28, 600. 00 . Again wrong equalization rate . MRS. SCHWICKER: She does give you a figure to work with. What does it say, 110 Front Street? The parcel she is working on? MRS. CONROY: I think it is the present IGA building. MRS . SCHWICKER: What is it on the card, Ted? MR. HEUSER: The A & P building. It says IGA on the other side . This has not been changed since 1969, and the building has not been moder- nized. MRS. LYTLE: I would not say it has been modernized at all. Not since it was first fixed up. I don 't think there have been many changes inside . Mel, there have not been many changes inside the IGA in many years, have there? MR. KELSEY; I couldn' t say one way or the other. I 'm not sure . MRS . LYTLE: I rarely go in there, but it didn' t seem like there were many changes. MRS. SCHWICKER: What have you decided on this? Inequality or over valuation? You think it is over valuation. MRS. LYTLE: Who are you talking about now? MR. HEUSER: Same person, Evlene King. She wants the building reduced to $6, 000. 00. MRS. LYTLE: The way real estate is going, no matter what she is doing, there is no reason to reduce it. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 127 No. 39 - Alexander G. and Margo E. Sarris, Bay Avenue, East Marion, New York (Rhodos Pavilion) MRS. SCHWICKER administered the Oath to Mr. Sarris . MRS. LYTLE: You have all those to go yet, Sam? We could take the rest of those up when we make our decision, but then you wouldn ' t have them on your tape. MRS. CONROY: You could always run the tape that day. MRS. LYTLE: But you are not there the day we make decisions. MRS. CONROY: If you want me to be, I will be. MRS. LYTLE: Nobody but the Board is there. MRS. CONROY: Couldn' t you do the rest of those first, and then I would leave? MRS. LYTLE: That might be a smart idea. I ' ll being it up. MR. MANERAL: Mr. Sarris has an assessed.valuation of $12 ,900 and would like it reduced to $10, 156. There are two parcels which he pur- chased for $45 ,000. 00. One of these parcels is vacant land. He is referring solely to the house . He shows $15,000 for the vacant lot, $30, 000 for the buildings . MRS. SCHWICKER: You want a reduction only on the buildings? MR. SARRIS: Yes. MR. HEUSER: You want a reduction of roughly $2, 744 .00. MR. SARRIS : There are three building, and this is the reduction that I come up with all combined. MRS. SCHWICKER: Are these all on one tax bill? MR. SARRIS: Yes. MR. HEUSER: The property cards show that Building one has a concrete foundation, one -story, asbestos shingles. MR. SARRIS: In that building which was built by the previous owner the doors open up against the toilet and bath tubs were installed im- properly so rotting has occured. All second hand materials were used. When I purchased the property in 1972 , many things had to be replaced. The faulty gas fired hot water heating system was disconnected rendering the building unlivable for half a year. MR. HEUSER: The card shows that building No. 2 is on piers, and has a partial basement. Do you have heat in that building? Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 128 MR. SARRIS : No.: . Building No. 3 was built in 3 sections. The first section was build around 1840-50 and was known as the Gardiner House . It was originally at the entrance of Gardiner' s Bay but was moved to the present location about fifty years ago. At that time the 14 x 16 two story addition was added together with the one story 10 x 14 extension. The faulty heating section in this portion of the original disconnected and the mechanical connections to the heating units were borken. The building has been uninhabitable for hald the year. These buildings are all uninsulated and are not lived in year round. MRS. SCHWICKER: So you are applying under ineaualitv and over valuation? MR. SARRIS: Yes. I have compared it to the Hellenic Cabins and Stars cabins. You will consider those? MR. MANERAL: We will take all of this into consideration. Is there anything else you would like to tell the committee . MR. SARRIS: I would just like to say that ever since I got into this, all I have done is work, work, work, trying to make it habitable, except for the old 1840-1850 portion, the rest has used materials. The light switches are behind doors, doors bang into toilets and sinks. Floors and walls are rotted out. Ceilings were coming doyan. MR. MANERAL: Okay, we will meet in a couple of weeks, and we will let you know by mail, what our decision is. MR. SARRIS: Thank you. No. 47 Strong Oil Company, P. 0. Box 277, Watermill, New York. MR. MANERAL: This is the one that is Strong 01.1 Company. MR. WEINHEIMER: Didn't we have that before? MRS . SCHWICKER: It is another parcel. This is for property on Front Street, Greenport. Total assessed valuation $8900 . They would like a reduction to $4,680 . He is using the wrong percentage, but tha4- is the figure he came up with, and that' s what we have to work with.. MR. HEUSER: Incorrect equalization rate, first of all. MRS. LYTLE: Mr. Strong is a very smart business man and knows better than that. MR. HEUSER: He hasn' t been raised since 1965. He was only raised $1000 then. MRS. SCHWICKER: It says here "Complainant believes the assessment Town of Southold • • Grievance bay - 129 should be reduced to $4, 680 (11. 70% of $40 ,000 rather than 11. 70% of the $76, 068. 00, the assessors apparent valuation. ) What does he mean by that. MR. WEINHEIMER: Using our 25% formula, the market value of the property is $35,600 .00. MR. HEUSER: The assessed valuation is $35,600 MRS. LYTLE: Where is that located? MR. MANERAL: There is a picture of it. MR.HEUSER: That is the one on Front Street. MRS. CONROY: That is next to Hoppy Cleaners. MRS. LYTLE: That one hasn' t been open for ages. It has been opened and closed, and opened and closed. MR. MANERAL: I was thinking it was the other one up the road. MRS . LYTLE: Too many gas stations down there anyway. Any change? MR. HEUSER: I don' t know. Wrong equalization rate . He wants a reduction of $4220. . MRS . LYTLE: $4230 . . No, you' re right. No. 48 —William and Patricia Brennen, 48 Spring :Lane, Levittown, New Jersey. MR. MANERAL: We have a problem with 48. They do not tell us what they want the assessment reduced to. MRS . LYTLE: That is a new one. New lot? MR. HEUSER: No, it is a new house . MRS . SCHWICKER: We have a problem. What I notice right here is the letter inside. He says that it was assessed before the sheet rock was put up and it was completely unfinished inside . He feels he is getting a full assessment. According to the assessor ' s card. Interior finished, sheet rock. How could that be if it was assessed before the sheet rock was put up? MR. HEUSER: Okay. MRS. SCHWICKER: He says the water and electricity were not even hooked up. So if the electric was not completed, how would the assessors know what kind of heat to put on their card? So it seems to me that maybe Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 130 this was a little premature . MRS. LYTLE: Why was it assessed so early in the game. MRS . SCHWICKER: It should have been a partial assessment. MR. HEUSER: As you know they get a lot of the information from the Building permits. Iri fact you could sit here and not even go through the house. MRS. LYTLE: They couldn 't do that when we built. MR. HEUSER: They do it now. I went in one day and saw my house described to a "T" . No one was ever in my house, but they got the plans from the Builder. MR. WEINHEIMER: What did it cost them to build the place? MR. MANERAL: What is going through my mind, is that someone is telling a fib. MR. HEUSER: In 1976 , $15,000. They didn' t pay 15 for the land. MR. MANERAL: They have the building permit down here at $16 ,000 . MRS . SCHWICKER: $15 ,000 in 1977. MR. HEUSER: That was October of 1976. MRS. SCHWICKER: He paid $15,000 for that property. MR. HEUSER: Is that what he did? MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes, because on the card there, it is only land, which is not far out for this day and age. MR. HEUSER: For half an acre? MRS . SCHWICKER: Now he adds a building with a value of $16 ,000 . 00. MR. HEUSER: That was September 6 , 1978. MRS . SCHWICKER: From what his letter claims, when it was inspected for assessment, it was not completed inside . The walls were not up and the electric not in. How can they state that they have sheet rock walls here. MR. HEUSER: We' ll have to wait for Mel MRS . SCHWICKER: They all went home. MR. MANERAL: Did Mel go home, too. MR. HEUSER: This is an assessors problem, not ours. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 131 MRS. SCHWICKER: We will have to hold this for decision. MR. MANERAL: We-' 11 check it out with him at that time. MR. HEUSER: When are you going to handle it, Pat? MRS. SCHWICKER: I think when we sit for decision, we should call the assessors in and ask them what is going on with this. I think they jumped the gun there. No. 49 - Harry Mitchell Family Corporation, 115 Front Street. Greenport, New York. MRS. SCHWICKER: That year we had all the legal papers here. MRS. LYTLE: We reduced it last year in keeping with all the legal papers. MRS . SCHWICKER: Here comes a law suit. MR. MANERAL: The application is being made by George C. Stankevich. MRS. LYTLE: They have a new lawyer. Rich was the lawyer last year. MR. MANERAL: He uses the same Islip case as the reason for the reduction. MRS. LYTLE: Who represents the firm now? MR. MANERAL: Stankevich. MRS. LYTLE: Who owns the firm now? What do the papers say? Who is he speaking for? MR. HEUSER: He is speaking for the Harry Mitchell family. MR. MANERAL; Mitchell' s Marine, Inc. MRS . LYTLE: Everything last year was owned solely by Mrs. Mitchell. MR. MANERAL: The assessors card here says it is the Mitchell Marina Inc. , formerly owned by Harry Mitchell and wife. MRS . LYTLE: He left everything to his wife. MR. HEUSER: Now they are filing as the Harry Mitchell Corp. MRS. SCHWICKER: They have made it a corporation now and they are going to try it that way. MR. HEUSER: First of all, he' s using the Town of Islip and there Town of Southold • . Grievance Day - Page 132 is no equalization rate there. MRS . SCHWICKER: Last year it was filed under Pauline Mitchell, on behalf of the Estate of Harry Mitchell. Assessed valuation of $81,200 , and wanted a reduction down to $32, 542. Our decision was a capitalization case. MRS. LYTLE: We returned it to the lawyer,. if I recall correctly. MRS. SCHWICKER: That' s right. In other words, she was filing bank- ruptcy. They didn't make any kind of a profit. They were in arrears for so much money. MRS. LYTLE: The whole thing was a mess. MR. HEUSER: That building is not in existence, per se. It is being reconstructed. MRS . SCHWICKER: Is that the one that burned down? MR.MANERAL: Not all of it. MRS. LYTLE: Do you recall what the taxes were due on it just the same. It was equal to the building the Bahk moved, before June lst. Southold Savings Bank wanted the taxes removed from the rolls because they,., moved. . . . MR. HEUSER: Blabs, you are familiar with Greenport, isn' t that being rebuilt now? MRS. CONROY: They are taking the portion where they used to rent out rooms, and that is the building they are renovating and making a restaurant and bar out of. The main portion of it did burn down, but there is a second section where the Greenport Ford-Mercury place used to be. That is not completely burned down. They are not renovating that. MR. HEUSER: There is a gap in between there, isn ' t there . MRS . CONROY: Yes. But they are renovating back towards the water. MR. HEUSER: If it was assessed for $69 , 000 in 1979 , that building wasn' t nearly compared to what it was before it burned down. Although in 1978 before the fire, it was assessed at $81,000 . MR. ' MANERAL: The fire was before 1978, wasn 't it? MR. HEUSER: The fire was December, 1978. MRS. LYTLE: It was right after they had the celebration for the hurricane pictures. MR. HEUSER: Pat, look up what we had last year. We gave them a break. MRS. SCHWICKER: Last year the assessed valuation was $81,000 . They Town of Southold • Grievance Day - Page 133 wanted a reduction to $32 , 542 .00 . MR. HEUSER: We gave them $73, 200. 00. MRS . SCHWICKER: I just had capitalization. Are you sure they didn 't take this to court? I don't remember giving them a reduction on that. MR. HEUSER: We gave them one . MR. MANERAL: It should be on the card right ther. MR. HEUSER: It is. MRS. SCHWICKER: This year it is assessed for $66, 900 and they want it reduced to $33, 450 . 00 . MRS . LYTLE: Just about half. MR. HEUSER: On 5/25/79 they upped that value to $66,900 . 00 after the fire, which means they must have gone up and looked at it. This must have been assessed according to what Babs told us. Do they use any formula: MR. WEINHEIMER: They don ' t even give market value . MRS. SCHWICKER: But they did give a figure on it. MR. WEINHEIMER: Stankevich has that illegality about the Hellerstein case . No. 50Fr Arshamomaque Associations, c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. 1539 Franklon Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501. MR. HEUSER: What is their complaint? MRS . LYTLE: Are they still the milk people? MRS. SCHWICKER: Item 449455 . Total valuation 7400 and would like it reduced to $2220. MR. HEUSER: In 1970 they had an assessed valuation for $6100 and there was no complaint. So they have been riding the gravy train since 1970 with a $6100 valuation. In 1961 it was valued at $6600. In 1962 it was increased to $6400; in 1970 reduced to $6100 . This year it was raised to $7400, which is 9 years later. MRS . SCHWICKER: They are using the 11. 70 factor. They give you a figure though. MR'. HEUSER: That is a lawyer, isn ' t it? MRS. SCHWICKER: Gee, he ought to know that. Town of Southold • • Grievance Day - Page 134 MR. HEUSER: I think he was involved with the Westbury Equipment Company at one time. No. 50B - Arshamomaque Associates , c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. 1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York. MRS. SCHWICKER: Item No. 449456. MR. HEUSER: In both cases it was inequality, wrong factor. MRS . CONROY: What is he asking for? MR. HEUSER: He is asking for a reduction from $9700 to 2910 . His last assessment was 1965 . That was $9000. No. 51 - George and Mary Mahr, 820 Front Street, Greenport, New York. MR. HEUSER: Are you going to make us stay tonight Sam and do all of these . MR. MANERAL: When do you wqnt to do them? MRS. SCHWICKER: I 'm not going to be able to say. I have to be at work at 5 a.m. tomorrow morning. MR. MANERAL: When I raised this . question earlier, I was told we were here to 12 o'clock last year. What we will do is read the names and addresses into the record. No. 52 - Mary Doris Whyard and Milton A. Whyard, Jr. and Roger M. Whyard, residing at 8312 Meadow Lakes Drive, Charlotte North Carolina 28210, 132 Myrtle Avenue, Fort Lee, New Jersey 07024, and 2470 Jackson -Highway, Chebalis, WA 98532 respectively. No. 53 - Mary D. Cassidy, 1815 Alberton Lane, Greenport, New York. No. 54 - Andrew F. Cassidy and others, 1815 Albertson Lane, Greenport, New York No. 55 . -Murray Weitman and Phyllis Weitman, 1150 Blue Marlin Drive, Southold, New York Town of Southold , , Grievance Day - Page 135 No. 56 - The Southland Corporation, 2828 N. Haskell, Dallas, Texas, 75204, as lessee; Colgate Design Corp. as owner. No. 57 - Alan A. Cardinale, c/o Hyman & *Hyman, 1950 Franklin Avenue, Garden City, New York. No. 58 - Cutchogue Joint Venture, c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. 1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501 No. 59 - S & E Realty Co. , c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. , 1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501. No. 60 - Hodor, Staller and Kasper, c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. 1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501. No. 61 - Vantage Petroleum Corp. c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. 1530 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501. Mr. 62 - Joseph Pumillo, Tom Pumillo, Harry Pumillo, Main Road Mattituck, New York. No. 63 - Joseph T. Macari and Herbert Ingber, c/o Santemma, Costigan and Murphy, 114 Old Country Road, Mineola, New York. No. 64 - Southold Development Corp. , as fee owner, c/o Armende Lesser, 475 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York 10017. No. 65 - Ulysses E. .Gallanos, 205 West 57th Street, New York, New York. No. 66 - Vantage Petroleum Corp. , c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. 1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501 Town of Southold ` Grievance Day Page 136 No. 67 - Erich and Dianel Bergmann, 26085 Middle Road, Peconic, New York . MR. MANERAL: Grievance Day on July 17, 1979 , for the tax year 1979-80 is hereby closed at 10 : 25 P.M. Respectfully submitted, �a�' 6617�7 Babette C. Conroy Secretary y / 4- Supreme Court of the ;Mate of New York Suffolk County ... petition In the Matter of ~ Index Noe The application of Leonard Resin Petitionepr, For Reviasw of ari Assessment Pursuant to :1 Article 7 of the Rutl Property Law against J.Haman Supervisor,J.T.Doyen, J.J. Mcklesq r H.W.Drwa,W.R.Pe]1 III, F.J. Tedssoldjp constituting the) Southold Town Board,M.A. �t Kelsey,ii.S. Mois►a,C.C, watts constituting the Board of Assessors; X,Lytle,T, Houser, W.Wsinheimer, P.3cbxidker, S.A.Mamerell constituting the Board of Assessment Review. To the a'upreme Court of the Mate of Now Yorks, County of Suffolk; The Petition of Leonard Rezin respectfully shows: Firsts That your petitioner is at all times hereinaftermentioned was a taxpayer in the Town of Southold, Suffolk County Now York and the ownerof the premises hereinafter described, si ted in said Town of Southold. S6condiThat at all times hereinafter mentioned the said respondents K.A. Kelsey,H.24. Moisa and C.C. Watts were and now are the assessors of the Town of vbuthAld; J.Roman.. Su� pervisor J.T. Doyon,J.J.Nickles, H.W. Drum, W.R.Voll and F.J. Tede sohi constitu"t;d the Board of Trustees, and H.L,ytlo#W,weinhaimer,P.Sohwidcor,T.J.Houser and S.A. Mannerel was sitting as the Southold Toon Hoard of Assessment Review to receive complaints in the form proscribed by law. Thirds That prior to July 17 197 there was prepared a tentative roll for said Town for the year 1979- Fourths That ahe►n said tentative assessment roll for the year 1979-8u for said Toun was oonplated, the said assessors caused to be published in the official newspaper of said Town a notice of co eteion thereof and that it might be seen and examined at the Town .Hell, Southold, H X and of the time whin the Board of Assessors would hald a public meeting for tic e Purpose of hearing and determining all complaints bthe Board of Review as to said roll and revising and correcting sam* Fifth; That your petitioner's said land and promises were assessed and described on said assessment roll for the year 1979-80 for the Town of Southold as followss Leonard Resin & WT. District 1001 Section 004 Block o3 Lot 03 Land $600* Total Land & Buildings *4,700 528 First St. Greenport, R.Y. 11944 Sixths That within the time and In the place specified in the • aforesaid public notice&he petitioner duly prote d the said assessment and filed with. the Board of Assessment Review a statement Of protest under oath on the form provided during the inspection period, specifying the respect in which said assessment Mould be corrected, revised and reduced, The Board of Assessment Review refused and still refuse to correct, revise or reduce said assessment. Seventh= That none of the property set forth in said assessment Roll, including the peoperty herein described, has been assessed at full value, Eighths That during the year 1978-?9 the property of the petitioner was damaged by fire and the assessed value was 1,000 for Land and Buildings, Nineths That on or about January 5,1979 the property was restored and repaired but -Ath approximately 1 500 square feet less of living, space than had existed prior to the Hre. Teiiths The assessed valuation prior to the fire was $3000, which included approximately 1,500 square feet more living, space, Elevenths That the statements contained in said application before the Board of Assessment Review and Ahose made under oath are true, T'selfths That tIlArty days have not elapsed since the final notice of completion and the filing of said assessment roll and the publication of notice thereof as regidired by law. Thirteenths That said assessment of your petitioner'sropperty is illegal,unequal and overvaluated and will subject peUt3.oner to injury an d loss thereby. Fourteenths That the said assessment of tour petitioner's property is illegal,unequal,overvaluated and erroneous of the following grounds: 1. The equalisation rate does not proport to measure the ratio of a ssessed valuation to full valuation of any property of an individual nor is designed. to insure that assessments are made at a uAform percentage of full value. 2.That said assessment is illegal and erroneous in that the valuatimi of the improvements on the petitioner's property as well as the valuation of the land is not made at actual market or full value thereof, as required by the Statutes in such cases made and provided. 3. That the lack of uniformity of assessment is a result of incompetanee, corruption and or favoritism as shown by the same assessors upon the same tax roil. 4, That an erroneous measurement of the petltione3�'s premise.-, was rude* causing hime to pay more taxes for less proper'-y, Fourteenths That no previos application has been made for relief prayed for herein in any court or judge. Wherefore, yov:r petitioner prays that this court order a reassessment for the real property of the Town of Southold, N.Y. or for the correction of the assessment upon the rolls in such mamer as shall b accordance with law and that your petitioner may have su ther d different relief as may be just, proper and euitable, to t r wi e costs of this proceeding. Leonard Nezins P�, tior i' Sworn to before me X28 day Cugast 1979 ; 7 1979 TOM OF SOUTHOLD TOWN OF SOUTHOLD BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW MAIN ROAD SOUTHOLD, NEW YORK 11971 August 3 , 1979 Hon. James F. Homan Supervisor, Town of Southold Main Road Southold, New York 11971 Dear Mr. Homan: Speaking for the members of the Board of Assessment Review, it may gratify you and your counsel to know that we have fine cooperation from everyone with whom we were in contact : the custodians, the clerks, the assessors, and most especially the secretary assigned to us , Mrs. Babette Conroy. It made a difficult job much easier to handle. With best personal regards, Respectfully, `7Samuel A. Maneral Chairman, Board of Assessment Review SAM:bcc O W, K © SO Q JUDITH T.TERRY V1FFqLDQ3 TELEPHONE TOWN CLERK ° 'fit I\ (516) 765-1801 REGISTRAR OF VITAL STATISTICS Southold, L. I., N. Y. 11971 August 2, 1979 This is to acknowledge receipt of "Minutes of Grievance Day for the Town of Southold - July 17,1979" The above mentioned minutes were -filed in the Town Clerk's Office at 11;30 A.M. on JUly 31, 1979. Judith T. Terry JTT/bn Town Clerk r FROM: Board of Assessment Review TO: � __/ Town Clerk RE: REPORT - BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW - TAX YEAR 191f/rO. DATE: 05Z Z f Z Attached herewith please find for public filing in your office, the complete file covering the public hearing (s) of the Board of Assessment Review, together with changes ordered by this Board to the assessment roll, Assessors ' acknowledgment, etc. The duties of the Board of Assessment Review for the grievance period covering the 19-,�7/1j assessment roll are completed. CRa1rman Member v YY M er Member Member R.P.T.S.A. - 200 - 4/72 Attachment: Form BAR-1, Parts I and II, Form BAR-3, Form BAR-4 CC: Town Supervisor - with attachments Director, Real Property Tax Service Agency - with attachments Office of Town Assessor - with attachments Form BAR-4 A �4 ' r L. ASSESSMENT ROLL - YEAR 19 / TOWN OF Complaint Last Name or Of Owner Property Assessment Assessr.,:e_nt Grievance No. On Roll Desc . From To AA , D d a0 pd 3 6 R.P.T.S.A. - 500 - 4/7 BAR-2 - Part II