HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980 Rr
Vy
!PA4: Board of Assessment Review AUG l 198Q
TO: a ,• _ .e,-r Town Clerk b
RE: REPORT - BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW - TAX YEAR 19PO/Yf.
DATE:
OF
Attached herewith please find for public filing in your office, the
complete file covering the public hearing (s) of the Board of
Assessment Review, together with changes ordered by this Board to
the assessment roll, Assessors' acknowledgment, etc.
The duties of the Board of Assessment Review for the grievance
period covering the 19LfrL assessment roll are completed.
*Aikman Me i e
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He
Wiger
Form BAR-4
. � RECEIVED
A u G 111980
STATEOF NEW 0 Town Clod( Soatkold
COUNTY OF ) ss:
TOWN OF )
The undersigned, being duly sworn do severally depose and
say that deponents are members of the Board of Assessment Review;
that deponents have read the foregoing and know the contents thereof;
and the matters set forth are true to the best of the deponents '
knowledge.
Sworn to before me this � ay
of Q. 19 �d
JUDITH T. TERRY
Notary public, State of New York
No. 52-03 63 Suffolk Coun
Nobdry Public mm Won Expires March 30,1
C airman
Member
�-Me er
Me e
✓i..C.�,�Ct�i�C
Member
R.P.T.S.A. - 200 - 4/72
BAR-2 - Page 2 of 2
M I N U T E S
OF
G R I E V A N C E D A Y
F O R T H E
TOWN OF 3 O U T H O L D
— — — — — — — — — — — — — —
July 15 ,, 1980
PRESENT:
BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW:
Mr. Samuel Manarel, Chairman
Mr. Theodore Heuser
Mrs. Patricia Schwicker
Mr. William Weinheimer
MR. Samuel Markel
BOARD OF ASSESSORS:
Mr. Melville. A. Kelsey, Jr. , Chairman
Mr. Henry Moisa
Mr. Charles Watts
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - July 1-X, 1980
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Item No. Matter of Page
1 R.E.C. Realty Co. 1
2 Dorothy A. Reibling 6
3 William L. & Muriel A. Murphy 8
4 Mattituck Presbyterian Church 14
5 PresbytOry of Long Island of the United 14
Presbyterian Church in the United States
of America
6 , Raymond A. and Helen G. Reichert 20
7 Helene T. Schmidt 23
8 Helene T. Schmidt 25
9 Phyllis E. Hale 29
10 Helen S. Price 33
11 J. W. Morris 56
12 Joseph T. Macari and Herbert Ingber 56
13 Joseph T. Macari and Herbert Ingber 56
14 James W. B. and Margaret W. S. Benkard 57
15 Grenville T. Emmet and Patricia B. Emmet 57
16 Grenville T. Emmet and Patricia B. Bemmet 57
17A,. Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. 57
17B Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. 57
18A Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. 57
18B Westbury Equipment Co. , Inc. 57
19 Joseph Frederick Gazza 57
20 Joseph Frederick Gazza 59
21 Arthur and Andrea Tillman 58
Patrick F. Gorman 59
22
Item No. Matter of Page
23 Eylene H. King 59
24 Jon Harvey Klasfeld 60
25 Donald G. King 60
26 George J. W. Husing 60
27 Leonard L. Frank & others 63
28 Mid-Island Shopping Plaza Co. 62
29 Greenport Shore$, Inc. 65
30 Long Island Lighting Company 66
31 Long Island Lighting Company 66
32 Oscar J. Bloom, et al. 106
33 St. Agnes Roman Catholic Church 106
at Greenport
34 St. Agnes Roman Catholic Church 106
at Greenport
35 St. Agnes Roman Catholic Church 106
at Greenport
36 St. Agnes Roman Catholic Church 107
at Greenport
37 Vera Mayer 107
38 235 Mill Street, Inc. 107
39 S & E Realty Co. 107
40 Vera Mayer 107
41 Deborah Penney
107
42 Vantage Petroleum Corp. 107
43 Vantage Petroleum Corp.
107
44 Hodor-Stall and Kasper, et al. 107
45 Cutchogue Joint Venture 107
46 Arshamomaque Associates. 107
47 Arshamomaque Associates 108
48 S & E Realty Co. , 108
49 Daysman and Nan Morris 108
t f
Item No. Matter of Page
50 Daysman & Nan Morris 108
51 Alan A. Cardinale 108
52 The Southland Corp. 108
53 Alfred J. Bartosieqicz & Joan 108
Bartosiewicz
54 Edward Maguire 108
55 Marvin & Lilliam Qualls 108
56 Stephen & Ella Schmidt 108
57 Hans H. & Francoise A. Rieger 108
58 Marjorie Nezin 108
59 Gerard H. Egger 109
60 Salvatore & Maria C. Iannolo 109
61 Strong Oil Company, Inc. 109
62 Strong Oil Company, Inc. 109
63 St. Peter' s Lutheran Church 68
64 St. Peter's Lutheran Church 83
65 Harry Mitchell Family Corp. 108
66 Mr. & Mrs. Clifford J. Van Cleef 81 & 91
6'7 Rose 0. Silverstone 91
68 Clement J. Welles 91
69 Mr. and Mrs. William W. Schriever 91
70 Margaret E. Aha 91
72 Joseph L. Townsend, Jr. & Arnold Gardner 92
73 Kevin & Lorraine Quillan 104
Mr. Samuel Manarel, Chairman of the Board of Assessment Review,
opened the Grievance Day Proceedings at 9:05 A.M. July 1f, 1980,
at the Southold. Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, New York. The
other members of the Review Board present were: Theodore Heuser,
Patricia Schwicker, William Weinheimer and Samuel Markel.
NO. 1 REC REALTY CO. , c/o K & C Agency, Inc. , 515 Rockaway
Avenue, P. 0. Box 39, Valley Stream, New York 11582
GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT ON ASSESSMENT: OVERVALUATION; Assessed
valuation of property: $12,000.00; Amount of overvaluation
claimed: $7,200.00; Complainant believes assessment should be
reduced to: $4,800.00.
MRS. SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO MR. CUMMINS.
ROBERT E. CUMMINS: Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen. My name
is Bob Cummins, I would like to introduce myself. I have been the
owner of this particular parcel on the corner of Main and Indian
Neck Lane for about 7 or years, or 6 to 8 years. It was purchased
at the height of land values in the area, in fact land values all
over the country. I am not a lawyer, a builder, or developer, I
bought it as the American Dream as a hedge against inflation. The
thing to do in those days was to buy land, and I did at a very high
price . And as all good things seem to come to an end, the price of
land seems to have been going down in the past few years. The theme
of my. . . I can also sympathize with you people and appreciate the job
that you have as assessors and hearing, I myself serve as a Village
Trustee in my own small village and also double as a member of the
Board of Assessors so I know that it is a difficult job that you have.
Most of our work is done in alteration of houses, and we have very
little land so our job is not as difficult as your job is. The theme
of my protest is that this piece or parcel was primarily assessed as
vacant land with a small building on there, which I am not really pro-
testing as to the value of the building, even though the building has
zero value . Now that this particular piece or parcel has been sub-
divided with a map that has been approved with 24 lots, the assessed
valuation has almost doubled. The physical condition of the land has
not changed. There are no roads. There are no improvements. There
are no utilities. There are no recharge basins. There are no catch
basins. There is no water. There are no lights. They physical con-
dition of the property has not changed one bit. I cannot do anything
more with the land today than I could do before the map was filed.
No lots can really be sold without filing permits, without having the
roads put in there, and having the improvements put there. Also in
thinking about all this I recall that about 8 or 10 years ago this
1Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 2
particular parcel of property was zoned for half acre zoning,
permitting half acre lots. Then it was rezoned for one acre use.
I do not think the assessed valuation was cut in half at that time
when the land went from one acre zoning to half acre zoning. Also
I feel it is unfair that if someone has a piece of vacant land and
they file with the Building Department to get a building permit to
build a house with an architectual plan the land value does not go
up at that time, the value of the land does not go up until the
improvements are made. Therefore, I protest that just because the
map was filed that the assessed value of the land is almost doubled.
SAMUEL MANAREL: Are there any questions?
PATRICIA SWICKER: Is he asking for a specific reduction?
WILLIAM WEINHEIMER: Can I see the card?
MR. MANAREL: The card is there.
MR. CUMMINS: I asked for a reduction. The card was a little
complicated to file.
MR. WEINHEIMER: What is is assessed for now?
MR. CUMMINS: It is assessed for land. . . .
MR. MANAREL: You are talking about 24 parcels, is that correct?
MR. CUMMINS: Yes.
SAMUEL MARKEL: 24, one acres, you have now?
MR. CUMMINS: You see, they made up two parcels on it. That is
what is very confusing.
MRS. SCHWICKER: May I see that paper, please?
THEODORE HEUSER: Pardon?
MRS. SCHWICKER: The top card and paper.
MR. MARKEL: I would like to know how large each parcel is that
you are subdividing.
MR. CUMMINS: The land was $8,600.00, with land and buildings
$8,800.00.
MR. HEUSER: The subdivisions are all a half acre.
MR. MARKEL: Half acre. So there are approximately 12 acres in
the plot?
MR. CUMMINS: There are 24, half acre plots. However, we kept the
* Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 3
one half acre housing unit there. The rest of the land is open area.
This is a cluster type zoning.
MR. MARKEL: You have a filed map?
MR. CUMMINS: Yes, I do. The land was $8,600.00. Now that
particular open land was reduced from $8,600.00 to $4 100.00. The
24 lots were assessed at $500.00 each for a total of $12 000.00. So
the total assessed valuation is $16,300.00 where it was 8,600.00
MR. HEUSER: May I see that sheet there?
MR. HEUSER: The two forms you handed me, are they covering the
same property?
MR. CUMMINS: Yes. Identically the same piece of property.
MR. HEUSER: It went from $4,100.00 to $12,000.00?
MR. CUMMINS: That is correct.
MR. HEUSER: In one year?
MR. CUMMINS: Right.
MR. HEUSER: Have you developed it, Sir?
MR. CUMMINS: No, I have not.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Is there more than one card?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes, there are several cards. Can we see the
rest of the cards?
MR. HEUSER: Sure.
MR. CUMMINS: There are several reductions for some old houses
that were taken off.
MR. WEINHEIMER: At the end of 1979 it was reduced in half on
the land part.
MR. CUMMINS: Not the land, only on the old house that was moved..
MR. WEINHEIMER: The card shows that it went from $8,600.00 down
to $4,100.00, on December 20, 1979.
MR. CUMMINS: Simultaneously then they made the 24 lots at $500.00
each. There are now two tax cards.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Then what is this for?
MR. CUMMINS: That is for the open area.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 4
MRS. SCHWICKER: This is open area?
MR. CUMMINS: This has 10 acres of open area.
MR. WEINHEIMER: That isn' t zoned for residential use?
MR. CUMMINS: It is the open area and three acres of road. which
are not there .
MR. HEUSER: I think we ought to bring one of the assessors in.
MR. MANAREL: Henry will come up. Mr. Cummins this is Mr. Moisa
one of the assessors.
MR. MOISA: You have a question?
MR. MARKEL: Could, you please explain the assessment in this
case?
MR. MOISA: The original assessment reflects the valuation as to
farmland. If I could see the card.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Was this rezoned from one acre to one half acre?
Or did it go from one-half acre to one acre?
MR. CUMMINS: Zoning went from one half acre to acre before I
owned the property.
MRS. SCHWICKER: That is what I thought.
M$. MOISA: The original assessment as I said before was based on
farmland whi(h was $250.00 per acre. It was being farmed at the time.
For several years now it has not been farmed. So Mr. Cummins and. Co.
have decided to subdivide it. They applied for a cluster type zoning'
which means they were allowed through the approval of the Town Board
they were allowed to have smaller lots,but they had to leave enough
land in reserve to make up an acre lot for each one, and I think they
have 13-1/2 acres which is undescribed outside of the subdivided
property. When you subdivide a piece of property it has been the
policy of the Board. from years ago they do give the developer some
sort of break at a lower rate, which this happens to be $500.00. There
are other half acre subdivisions in the Town that will justify that
assessment. Then the part which is left undescribed, which is the
reserved part, is put on the records at $300.00 an acre, which is
parallel with the other vacant land throughout the Town. There hasn' t
been anything done to this property.
MR. MANAREL: There is 13-1/2 acres of undescribed property.
MR. MOISA: That' s right. You have two assessments.
MR. HEUSER: The original 12 acres were valued at $800.00.
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 5
MR. MOISA: No, sir. The original 28 acres. . . .
MR. HEUSER: No, I mean after it was subdivided .
MR. MOISA: After it was subdivided at a half acre apiece.
There were 24 lots. There are 24 lots there now on the filed map.
MR. MARKEL: How much did you assess each lot for?
MR. HEUSER: $800.00 I believe .
MR. MOISA: $500.00.
MR. MARKEL: That is even below the average rate for an acre
at $1,600.00.
MR. MOISA: That' s true, but here again, you have got to remember
when land is being developed there is a slight break given to the
developer. That has been the policy of the Town.
MR. MARKEL: I understand.
MR. MOISA: That helps them get started in a way, because there
is money that has to be laid out for the building of roads and stuff
like that which has to be taken into consideration.
MR. HEUSER: We are running into the same thing that we ran into
when people say that the realtor comes up and sells property to a
buyer of farmland. He says it is assessed at only $300.00. Then he
develops it and they buy that farmland and eventually when they get
their tax bill they find out it is a $1,000.00.
M$. MOISA: That' s right.
MR. HEUSER: The same principle applies here.
MR. rOISA: As I say that policy is carried through on every filed
map which we receive in our office.
MR. MANAREL: Okay, Henry, thank you very much. Do you have any
other questions, Mr. Cummins?
MR. CUMMINS: No.
MR. MANAREL: Does any Board member have a question? No, okay.
You will receive a reply from us, Mr. Cummins, one way or the other.
Hopefully we will get this done in a couple of weeks and then be
able to sit down and review this.
MR. HEUSER: May I interject one thing? Was the explanation of the
tax assessor fairly clear to you at this point?
MR. CUMMINS: Yes it was. Yes his explanation was very clear, but
Towrr of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 6
I feel that it doesn' t really apply to this situation. It' s only
use I can do now is farm it. Until the roads and improvements are
put in I really don' t have lots.
MR. WEINHEIMER: I have one question. Do you contemplate leaving
the land exactly as it is in its present state?
MR. CUMMINS: Sure, there will be contemplation of putting in the
improvements. Not at this time.
MR."HEUSER: There are no roads in at this time?
MR. CUMMINS: No roads at this time.
MR. HEUSER: But you have subdivided?
MR. CUMMINS: Just the map has been filed, which I feel is the
same principle as filing to beuild a house.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Is that where the house was removed down to
Wells Avenue?
MR. CUMMINS: Yes, it was on that corner, right.
MR. MANAREL: Thank you, Mr. Cummins.
NO. 2 DOROTHY A. REIBLING, 290 Wabasso Street, Southold, New York
11971.
GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT ON ASSESSMENT: OVERVALUATION: Full market
value of property: $27,000.00; Assessed valuation of property: $4,600.00;
Amount of overvaluation claimed: $100.00; Complainant believes assess-
ment should be reduced to $4,500.00
MRS. SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO MRS. REIBLING.
Let the record show that William Weinheimer has filed a "With-
drawal Bt Member of the Board of Assessment Review from Rendering
Decision ' on this application.
MRS. REIBLING: I am Dorothy A. Reibling a/k/a Mrs. Russling Wood,
Jr. This property is in the name of Reibling. I recieved a notice
of a $100.00 increase in my assessment, which seems insignificant to
you people, but it is the principle of the thing which I am here for.
I will read to you a letter which I have attached:
"The Assessor' s office the increase of $100.00 in building assess-
ment is due to the presence of a "shed" which they had never noticed
heretofore on caption property.
This particular "shed" has been affixed to the house as long as
Townr of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 7
the house has existed, long before I bought the property in 1969
from Mr. Horton Barr. The property has been inspected by the
Assessors people frequently through the years, and most especially
when I had extensive alterations on the bay side of the house in
1970-71. The "shed" is still substantially the same size and shape
as it was when the property was purchased in 1969. As a matter of
fact, from an inspection of the Zoning Code 100-30-C-2, this "shed"
does not qualify as an "Accessory Building", but is part and parcel
of the main building, and always has been. Its rear wall is the side
of the main building. It in no way compares in size and shape with
the separate building installed recently by my neighbor just west of
my property, about which a member of the Assessors office sought to
compare it.
I would, therefore, respectfully request that this error in
assessing my property be corrected for the coming taxable year since
I never had an "accessory building. "
7/15/80. s/ Dorothy A. Reibling
I have pictures here to prove it.
MRS. SCHWIC.[ER: Before we go any farther, the form is not filled
out correctly. The letter is not sufficient.
MRS. REIBLING: I didn' t know what to fill out there . There is
nothing covering my problem. I even asked them at the desk this
morning.
MR. HEUSER: Your name is Dorothy A. Reibling?
MRS. REIBLING: R-e-i-b-l-i-n-g. There is no place there. I am
not complaining about an equalization, I am not complaining about any
of that.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Red, as you can see there is not anything filled
out under the letter.
MRS. REIBLING: It doesn' t pertain to this particular thing. I
have no quarrel about my original assessment. All of a sudden it was
upped $100.00 ,just because of a shed that has been there for years.
MR. MANAREL: I think probably what you ought to fill out is over-
valuation because from what you stated, if I understand-, it clearly,
you have been reassessed in a sense for a shed apparently the Assessors
say was not assessed originally. We have no choice, we are bound by.
law.
MRS. REIBLING: I understand that. I asked out at the desk. . . .
MR. MANAREL: Unless this form is filled out properly we cannot act.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 8
MRS. REIBLING: I didn' t understand how I should fill this out.
MR. MANAREL: Why don' t you fill out overvaluation, and then you
can ask for the reduction. You can sit right there at the table.
Would you like a pen?
MRS. REIBLING: I have one thank you.
MR. MANAREL: Fill that out so we know where we can go.
MRS. REIBLING: Okay, fine. I'll do that.
MR. HEUSER: The fact that it existed, but it was overlooked
doesn' t change the status of a thing.
The Board held a discussion conerning the location of the shed.
MR. MANAREL: We can set this aside and. go on to the next appli-
cation. Mrs. Reibling, you gust take your time. We are going to
proceed with some over people, and. then we will bring you back.
NO. 3 WILLIAM L. & MURIEL A. MURRAY, 213 Elsie Avenue, Merrick,
New York 11566.
GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT ON ASSESSMENT: OVERVALUATION: Full market
value: $1500 approximately; Assessed valuation of property: $1500;
Amount of overvaluation claimed: $900.00; Complainant believes the
assessment should be reduced to approximately $600.00.
MRS. SCHWICEER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO MR. MURRAY.
MR. MANAREL: Would you like to present your case, Mr. Murray?
WILLIAM MURRAY: My name is William Murray and this is my wife,
Muriel. I purchased a piece of property on the Main Road in Cutchogue.
Formerly known as the Field and Ziggy Rysko property. Being a farm
boy at heart I farmed a little land with it for retirement so I took
a packaged deal. The figures that I present there were what I paid
for the entire piece of property. It was very much overpriced, I admit.
MR. MANAREL: When did you buy this?
MR. MURRAY: I bought this in the latter part of last year.
MR. MANAREL: 1979?
MR. MURRAY: We had the closing in December, 1979. Because the
property had a .right-of-way to the east of the house, which split the
back property which would be my garden I chose to get a subdivision
on it to move the right-of-way to the west of the property and along
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 9
the edge of the land. Also though I have no intention of developing
the property, but to protect its value in case we pass away and it
have to be disposed of some time. Following my purchase, of course,
the economic condition has changed considerably and with the Temik
contamination which this property is, I find that the value of the
property is considerably reduced. I have not put it on the market
because I do not wish to sell it, but I have approached many people
who are looking for building lots to establish the value. I have
talked to people who have lots for sale adjacent andacrossthe road.
I find, of course, that you can' t hardly give it away. I also find
this when I try to rent. I was led to believe that I could at least
get taxes out of it. I find that I cannot even get taxes and in many
cases it is farmed for free.
MR. HEUSER: What was your Temik report? How much?
MR. MURRAY: The Temik on my house itself, because my house is on
a higher. . . . .
MR. HEUSER: What did it read?
MR. MURRAY: My water is free from Temik. Because I have a shallow
well, and the property is higher. The back of my property which is
adjacent to Mr. Robinson' s place, I believe. He has I understand one
of the highest Temik ratings anywhere. His place is about 20 or 30
feet from mine.
MR. MANAREL: Speaking of the Temik on this lot. You don' t have
any in your residence?
MR., MURRAY: No, the residence is free.
MR. MANAREL: But you have another lot?
MR. MURRAY: I have another lot in the back which has been sub-
divided.
MR. MANAREL: You say there is Temik in the water in that lot?
MR. MURRAY: I am sure there is in that lot.
MR. MANAREL: Have you had that water tested?
MR. MURRAY: My property, no, but one 20 feet from it has been.
MR. MANAREL: I'm sorry, but without proof, this Board cannot act.
I have Temik. My neighbor across the street as well is less than 50
feet from me and has no Temik. So there is no guarantee because of
the way the water tables run. under the ground that one has Temik and
therefore the one next to it will have Temik. Your proof is that you
do not have any temik in your own building.
MR. MURRAY: But that influences any buyer. If he knows that it is
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 10
all around.
MR. MANAREL: I grant you that.
MR. MURRAY: He won' t touch it if he knows it is there.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Excuse me , you have a figure here for the amount
of overvaluation. It isn' t clear to us.
MR. MURRAY: Weli, it isn' t clear to me either because when I
received a notice it did not say that the form was re-evaluated .
MRS. SCHWICKER: Do you want to look at this figure for just a
moment please?
MR. MURRAY: Yes.
MRS. SCHWICKER: You have $1500 here. Then you have Wc:,00 here.
MR. MURRAY: This is the amount of overvaluation. I assume that
this means here the whole market value of the property, right?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Right.
MR. MURRAY: I'm saying that the ratio. . . You don' t value it I
assume at 100%. It ' s a ratio of the true value. So you really have
to in order to value it I assume establish what the value of the
property is to start with. I have no benefit of that figure or no
benefit of the ratio of which you use. So I can only try to ratio it
from my house property.
MR. MANAREL: Ir you have $1500 for your full market value of the
property. The assessed valuation of the property is $1500. That is
what you have.
MR. MURRAY: Yes.
MR. MANAREL: The amount of overvaluation claimed is the amount of
$13,500.00. How can you have an overvaluation that is $13,50u when you
are only assessed $1500 to begin with?
MR. MURRAY: You are assessed $1500.00. To get $1500 at a ratio of
9% or 10%, I assume of the full market value.
MR. MANAREL: You cannot compare apples and peaches. When you
start with assessed valuations you stay with assessed valuations all
the way through. You want to jump from assessed valuation to full
valuation.
MR. MURRAY: It looks like that form is made that way.
MR. MANAREL: No it is not.
Tuwn of Suuthold
Grievance Day - Page 11
MRS. SCHWICKER: You are working with one set of figures and. that
is what you stay with.
MR. MANAREL: You have an assessed valuation of $1500. 00 and then
you want a reduction of $13,500.00. That is just clearly impossible.
MR. MURRAY: I assumed that the $13, 500.00 was what the assessors
figured the property worth in order to come up with $1500.00.
MRS. SCHWICKER: In other words, you want the assessment back to
the $900.00 where it was originally?
MR. MURRAY: No I really feel it should be less than $900.00.
MR. MANAREL: But you are not asking for that here, and we can
only act on what you put on the form.
MR. MURRAY: I had no way of figuring how you people get your
figures.
MR. MANAREL: We don' t figure anything, you misunderstand.
MR. MURRAY: I'm sorry, I realize that. I have no way of knowing
how they figure this. They do not publish the rates or the full value
in order to get the proportionate figures.
MR. HEUSER: The thing that sticks in Sam' s mind and mine is that
this property has been subdivided. Correct?
MR. MURRAY: Yes.
MR. HEUSER: By subdividing it you have increased it into a
development property per se.
MR. MANAREL: Let' s bring Charlie up here to help us with the
evaluation.
MR. MARKEL: Sam, first of all it looks like the piece that was
broken off is now 1.166 acres, is that correct?
Mit. MURRAY: It must be more than that.
MR. MARKEL: More than that?
MR. MURRAY: It is three building lots, each with 40,000 .. square
feet.
MR. MANAREL: Mr. Watts is the Assessor. Do you want to come
here, Charlie?
CHARLES WATTS: Can I see the property card?
MR. HEUSER: Ask him about this acreage here?
' Towrf of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 12
MR. MANAREL: What about the acreage of the subdivision.
MR. WATTS: The house plot was broken away, at Mr. Murray' s re-
quest. It is a minor sub, a filed minor subdivision. It has four
lots. The standard procedure when we have four lots is at least
$500.00 per lot in the subdivision. Any one can be sold.
MR. MANAREL: So you have 3 lots at $500.00 apiece is $150u.u0.
MR. MURRAY: I was told when I made the subdivision. . . .
MR. MANAREL: By whom?
MR. MURRAY: By the man who presented the subdivision, by two
different officers here that it probably would not change my assessed
valuation at all as long as I did not file with the County.
MR. MANAREL: Who were the officers? What division of the Goven-
ment did you deal with?
MR. MURRAY: I went to the Planning Board. I went to the assessing
department.
MR. MANAREL: Who did you see in the Assessors Department? We have
the three assessors right here.
MR. MURRAY: I don' t know their names.
MR. MANAREL: Did you see Mr. Kelsey? He is sitting back there .
MR. MURRAY: No, I don' t think so.
MR. MANAREL: You saw Mr. Moisa here before. The heavy set
gentleman that was here with the first gentleman who appeared..
They are the three assessors we have here. I don' t know who you
spoke with?
MR. MURRAY: I might now have been assessor. It might have been
a clerk. I spoke to someone about this.
MR.' MANAREL: You see Mr. Murray, the problem is that when you
ask someone who does not have direct authority over what is going to
be evaluated, they are giving you opinions.
MR. MURRAY: The man who did the presenting did the mapping.
This man, Van Tuyl, told me the valuation should not be raised as long
as I didn' t file with the County. Now I find out it was raised.
MR. MARKEL: He is only a surveyor.
MR. MURRAY: He presented the papers for me. He drew it up for
me.
' Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 13
MR. MARKEL: That doesn't mean he had any authority to tell you
that.
MR. MANAREL: That is misinformation. He probably did not mean
to mislead you, but he might have had some misinformation. This is
the regulation.
M$. MURRAY: Now I find it doesn' t get filed with the County
anyway.
MR. MARKEL: Not until a piece is sold.
MR. MURRAY: Then that must be what he meant. As long as you don' t
build on it.
MR. MANAREL: Are there any other questions you would like to ask?
MR. MURRAY: I did make the point that it is farmland right now.
MR. MANAREL: This will be given further study. Don't think this
is the decision today. We will meet and go over this very carefully.
Do any of the members have any other questions?
MR. MARKEL: Yes I have one question of Mr. Murray. He made the
statement that this is farmland. Does it meet the requirements of
farmland as far as acreage.
MRS. SCHWICKER: No.
MR. MANAREL: I think the minimum is what? 10 acres?
MRS. SCHWICKER: 10 acres.
MR. MURRAY: I realize that. It was my understanding after dis-
cussing how the assessments are reached that vacant land that may come
under the 10 acre requirement that is not in farmland is assessed
at a lower rate.
MR. MANAREL: That' s right.
MR. MURRAY: Therefore I am keeping it in farmland.
MR. MARKEL: It doesn' t meet the requirements though.
MR. MURRAY: Not of farmland, I realize that.
MR. MANAREL: Okay, thank you very much, Mr. Murray. You will hear
from us.
MR. MURRAY: Thank you for your time.
Towra of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 14
NO. 2. DOROTHY A. REIBLING
MRS. REIBLING: I have pictures here of building construction
and everything that was changed.
MR. MANAREL: Okay, Lady and Gentlemen, we can get back to Mrs .
Reibling. The form has been filled out now for overvaluation. She
made her presentation about a shed that has been attached to the
property. Does anyone have any questions of Mrs. Reibling? Is there
anything else you wish to say, Mrs. Reibling. that we haven' t given
you the opportunity to say?
MRS. REIBLING: No, I don' t think so. Only that the shed was
there when I purchased the property and it is still the same way
with the exception of a new roof, because the roof was falling in,
and I had to repair it. That is the way it is. When George Ahlers
redid my property all the assessors: Mr. Terry, Mr. Fisher, everyone
was down there. They knew of that existing shed all these years.
All of a sudden I get an increase on something that has been attached
to the house. It is not a separate entity.
MR. MANAREL: Thank you Mrs. Reibling. My smile has to do with my
shed which I built and what it cost me. I had to pay $5.00 for an
occupancy fee for my lawnmower, so I sympathize with you. You will
hear from us.
NO. 4 - MATTITUCK PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, Main Road, Mattituck, New
York. Lund.stedt & Foys, Esgs. , Main Road, Laurel, New York.
GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT: Property is totally exempt.
MRS. SCHWICKER SWORE IN EDWARD W. LUNDSTEDT, ESL
MR. LUNDSTEDT: I had mailed all members of the Board a copy of
rriy papers .
MR. MATIAREL: Yes, we all have one.
MR. LUNDSTEDT: I don' t want to be too long with respect to this.
I think the arguments are set forth within. We are totally exempt.
A Church is exempt. If a Church lends its property to a little
theatre, the question is whether the little theatre is exempt also.
I attached a case going back to 1956, a case relied on by a former
Chairman of the Assessors, Mr. Martocchia when he took the property
off the tax rolls in 1965. The case is still good law. It says
the little theatre is for educational purposes. It is for mental
and moral improvement of men and women and therefore it is within
the purview of an exempt organization and not taxable. In fact,
that the little theatne is a rentor or a leasee doesn' t mean mean
that it loses the exemption as long as there is no profit to the
church. The North Theatre uses the premises free of charge. There
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 15
is no rental whatsoever. There is .another case. Sisters of St.
Joseph v. New York City which I attached. That makes it very
clear. It makes it very clear. If you have two exempt organi-
zations, an owner and a renter. If there is no profit from the
rent, they are both exempt. If there is a profit through the
rent then it isn' t exempt. For these reasons we feel that the
exemption should be retained by the Board, and the assessors
opinion should be overturned. I have with me today Mr. Richard
Keogh, the President of the theatre, who wishes to address the
Board.
MR. MANAREL: I think the threatre has nothing to do with the
parcel that we are talking about. We have nothing. . . .the threatre,
fine, God Bless them, let them continue. They do not come into this
case whatsoever. So that would just be extraneous material. We
find that would be unnecessary. We believe what the threatre is
doing. I don' t think that is really necessary. I think we can save
the gentleman some time.
MR. HEUSER: May I interrupt. I think it would be a good idea
to bring Mel in on this assessment.
MR. MANAREL: No, I think everything has been filed. We 've
got everything. There is no use carrying things out. We have all
the information. The gentleman elucidated on everything now.
Everything is there. It is quite comprehensive. Thank you very
much Mr. Lundstedt for appearing. Thank you sir. You will hear
from us hopefully within a month one way or the other.
NO. 5 PRESBYTERY OF LONG ISLAND OF THE UNITED PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH
IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 50 Hauppauge Road, Commack, New York.
Lundstedt & Foy, Esgs. , Main Road, Laurel, New York.
GROUNDS FOR THE COMPLAINT: Property is totally exempt.
MRS. SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO EDWARD W. LUNDSTEDT, ESQ.
EDWARD W. LUNDSTEDT: Edward W. Lundsted.t. I represent the
Presbytery of Long Island. The Presbytery of Long Island is the
regional organization of the Presbyterian churches in Nassau and
Suffolk. It in essence through a trust theory has ownership of all
the churches on Long Island. What happened back in the end of 1979
is that the Greenport Presbyterian Church, which is the premises in
question, closed its doors through economic necessity. There was
falling attendance, falling revenues, and the Presbytery of Long
Island could no longer sustain the Church building by subsidizing
the salary of the pastor and. the other expenses. So there was a
decision made to close its doors. This is some 7 months ago. At
that point there was a decision made what to do with the building.
The only feasible thing to do was to put it on the market. It was
listed with brokers in Greenport and. the brokers attempted to offer
Towh of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 16
the building for sale. The building naturally being a church building
is possibly utilized only for that type of purpose. It is not feasible
to convert, I guess, these buildings with cathedral ceiling into any-
thing else. The brokers have turned up a buyer, another church. There
is a contract of sale that has been recently drawn and mailed to the
other church. The other church, expectantly, will sign the contract
some time soon. Now in my grievance foria, set forth as exhibits 1,
the letter from the Broker to the other church setting forth the
terms of the porposed sale, and I have set forth a proposed copy of
the contract of sale. These things went out approximately two weeks
ago. The arguments that I have in essence are is that it is owned by
a tax exempt organization. In the assessors' opinion it is no longer
being used for exclusively religous purposes. In fact, the church is
not being used for any purpose. The purpose of religion has abated
because of economic necessity. The Presbytery f s trying to sell it
to another church. Now we find ourselves with an assessment 1lere
it may well void the deal we have with the other church when they find
out, Gee Whiz, now it is on the tax roll. We have been contemplating
something that is tax exempt, and now all of a sudden we find a
situation that is going to cost X number of dollars a year.
MR. HEUSER: May I interrupt, please? When you sell to the other
church, it will revert back to an exempt property again.
MR. LUNDSTEDT: Yes, it will, but I don' t know if we can get by
the first year. I believe as of the law date today, that there will
be one year' s taxes. I don't know what they would be exactly, but I
do know it will be a couple of thousand dollars, I think.
MR. MANAREL: Your timing here is essential. They had to close
the temporary roll on June 1st.. And this opportunity to sell came
after the date of June 1.
MR. MARKEL: I have a question.
MR. MANAREL: Go ahead.
MR. MARKEL: This was built solely as a church. Is this an allowable
situation or did the church make it one?
MR. LUNDSTEDT: The name of the church interested is Our Lady of
Sign. I understand it is a Greek Orthodox Church from Astoria Queens.
In my papers I set forth subdivision 3 of Real Property Tax Law 421.
In essense that statute addresses itself to a situation where a church
or any other otherwise qualified corporation owns a piece of property,
and they haven't built on it yet. They have plans to built on it or
have not finished it yet. It is not at the present time say used for
the purpose. It is not used as a church if the building isn' t built
yet. It isn' t used as a hospital if the building isn' t built. That
statute says there is a reasonable time to be given to the corporation
to fulfill the purpose. To complete its plans and build its building
so that the hospital or church can use it. The reason I set forth that
statute is because we have an analogy here to that situation. The
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 17
Presbytery of Long Island has offered the premises for sale through
a broker. We have a buyer. The contracts. .
MR. 14ANAREL: May I interrupt you right there. You have a buyer
and you are worried that the buyer may not buy because of the tax
situation.
MR. LUNDSTEDT: Yes sir.
MR. MANAREL: Mr. Kelsey.
MRS. SCHWICKER: This has been dormant for seven months only.
Not a full year.
MR. MANAREL: Is there any problem with the sale of this property
going back to exempt status if it is a religious. There are no
problems at all. So if you have any questions at the time of your
closing or your buyers want to talk to Mr. Kelsey. He will be glad
to talk to them.
MR. MARKEL: One other thing. When this was offered to brokers
for sale. Did the church stipulate that it must be sold to another
church, did it?
MR. LUNDSTEDT: NO sir.
MR. MARKEL: Then the assessors were perfectly right in what they
did.
MR. LUNDSTEDT: Well, this is the basis of my argurment that is
very important. My argument is that the legislature in drafting
subdivision 3 of Section 421 in essence sets forth a reasonable
length of time for an organization to fulfill its purpose. To build
a building. The analogy here is that Presbetery of Long Island should
have a reasonable length of time to market its property without being
hindered by an assessment that may well void the contract because there
is no way we can get around the taxes for this ensuing year without
the reversal of this Board or the Court. If the Board makes this re-
versal it will be within a month. If we have to go to court, it is
going to be an appreciable length of time. In the meantime the building
is deteriorating, and the Buyer may say he is going to wait until you
fellows have a decision on whether it is taxable or not taxable.
MR. MANAREL: You say you have a buyer. What is your time schedule
for closing.
MR. LUNDSTEDT: We expect to have a signed contract, which we do
not have now, very shortly. The proposed contract of sale calls for
a closing date of. . . .
MR. IVIANAREL: Rule of thumb, what is shortly? Shortly doesn' t
mean anything. It means something different to me than it does to
attorneys. To attorneys some time shortly means 3 to 4 years.
' TowA of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 18
MR. LUNDSTEDT: The contract went out a little more than 2 weeks
ago. From an attorney' s standpoint I would expect the contract to
be received within a week from today.
MR. HEUSER: Again with due respect to an attorney. What is
your conception of a reasonable time?
MR. LUNDSTEDT: I would say a year or two years. In other words
what I am asking this Board is essence is to give us a by for this
year so that we can market the property without the aura of tax
liability in the background. If we don' t sell by this time next year
I don' t think I can come back and ask for a reasonable length of time
to accomplish this.
MR. HEUSER: I have one question for Mel yet. If this property
was sold in August. Can that assessed value be changed on the cards.
MELVILLE KELSEY, JR. : Not the assessed value. At the time of
closing it would be pro rata out, and then it would go back on the
exempt rolls since it was sold to another church.
MR. HEUSER: There could be a reduction in that tax?
MR. KELSEY: Yes , absolutely.
MR. HEUSER: Okay, I just wanted to clarify that.
MR. KELSEY: It would only be for a short time if it was going to
be closed within a month or two months. It would be a minimum bill.
MR. LUNDSTEDT: I understand that the taxes do not begin until
December 1st. If we close before December 1st. there will be no
taxes whatsoever?
MR. KELSEY: That' s right.
MR. LUNDSTEDT: This is if they file for an exemption. I under-
stand. What I am worried about though is that they may not want to
go ahead unless we have the exemption at hand.
MR. MANAREL: At that particular time why don' t you have those
people come over here and talk to the assessors. I made that suggestion
before. Mr. Kelsey will reassure them. I don' t know what else you
can do .
MR. MARKEL: There is one other question that maybe Mr. Lundstedt
can clarify for me. He quoted a law giving the church a time limit.
You used the word "build" . Now you are referring to the word
"Market" . Are those two words interchangeable?
MR. LUNDSTEDT: The law cannot possibly ,-have a statute to cover
each and every situation. The only way you can glean the intent of
the legislature is to look at something in the law which analogous.
I think this is specifically analogeous if the law says "Look if you
Towri of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 19
are going to build within a certain amount of time, we will keep you
off the tax rolls. " To our situation if you have it on the market,
you have a buyer ►in hand, you are going to sell it in a small amount
of time , we are going to keep it off the tax rolls. To do otherwise
would be unreasonable. Keep in mind the purpose here. We closed the
doors in Greenport by economic necessity. We couldn' t make a go of
it without taxes.
MR. MARKEL: I just want to finish if I may. What I am just
questioning is this. Suppose the deal does fall through. Then the
broker comes to you with a commercial buyer, which is a good possibility.
That would make a wonderful little theatre. In the meantime we have
knocked you off the rolls. Do you understand my thinking? If a tax
exempt organization buys it, they will not pay any taxes.
MR. HEUSER: Excuse me, it wouldn' t go off the rolls until the
sale was consumated, right?
MR. MANAREL: That' s right. I think we are getting argumentative.
I don't think we want to get into this.
MR. WEINHEIMER: I have a question for Mr. Kelsey. The fact that
while this church has been dormant it has been owned by the Presbytery
of Long Island. As such, wouldn' t they continue to enjoy a tax exemption
until such time they sold it to a commercial buyer?
MR. MANAREL: Well, that' s the. . . .
MR. KELSEY: You are going to have to go a little bit slower
because I am hard of hearing.
MR. WEINHEIMER: The fact that this church is dormant for the
entire period of time it has been owned by the Presbytery of Long
Island, a religious organization. As such wouldn' t they be entitled
to a full tax exemption until such time as they sold it either to
another church or commercial business.
MR. KELSEY: It will off the tax rolls until December when they
get their first tax bill. Then if it is sold to another tax exempt
religous organization, then it would go back to the exempt status.
I will have to check with Real Property Tax whether we can do that
automatically on the day of sale or do we have wait until the following
year.
MR. MANAREL: I think that is a question we can discuss without
holding Mr. Lundstedt up any longer. Thank you very much, sir. Again
you will hear from us within a month.
MR. LUNDSTEDT: Thank you all for your time.
MR. HEUSER: Thank you.
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 20
NO. 6 - RAYMOND A. AND HELEN G. REICHERT, 930 Jacobs Lane,
Southold, New York
GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT ON ASSESSMENT: Full market value of property:
$65,000. 00; Assessed valuation of property: $8, 500. 00 . ; Amount of
overvaluation claimed: $500 . 00; Complainant believes the assessment
should be reduced to $8, 000 .00.
MR. MANAREL: Mr. Reichert?
MRS. SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO MR. REICHERT.
MR. MANAREL: We are all ears, Mr. Reichert.
RAYMOND A. REICHERT: My sole problem is I believe my place is
overevaluated, on the assessed valuation. Working it out from the
figuring it out from the figures you give it comes to a figure that
the house and land are not worth. My point is the assessed valuation
should be reduced a bit to bring it into a more logical prospective.
I've been through some of your books, and I have find some comparable
property worth more than mine assessed for less. That is not the
point. The point is mine. I really do feel based on what I paid for
the place, I paid $54 ,000. 00 for the house and land and I built a
porch costing $4,600. 00. The result is that the house and land cost
me $59, 000. 00. When I work it out on your figures, I come with a
figure way up near $75 ,000. 00 . To me that is overvaluation. I don' t
believe property values have appreciated that much, I don' t think
they will appreciate that much. Therefore, I feel my assessed valuation
is high.
MR. MANAREL: Let me see the card. They have the forms down there.
Do you have two extensions or one extension?
MR. REICHERT: One extension.
MR. MANAREL: There is a 5 ' x 16 ' extension on there other than
the new extension which is 14 ' x 16 ' according to. . . .
MR. REICHERT: No, that is not on my house.
MR. MANAREL: Mr. Moisa, can you lucidate on this? There are 2
extensions on the house
MR. REICHAERT: There are not two extensions. I built the porch
on the back.
MR. MANAREL: I may be reading the card wrong.
MR. MOISA: This 5 x 16 is your mud room in back of the garage.
MR. REICHERT: That was in the house when we bought it.
MR. MOISA: That' s right. It' s okay
' Towh of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 21
MR. MOISA: That was the original assessment that was put on there.
This new one way added on when this was put on in 1978.
MR. REICHERT: All the houses of that comparable type have that
room.
MR. MOISA: That' s right. They are all assessed at that rate. It' s
called a mud room. In other words you have a washer and dryer.
MR. REICHERT: That' s right. I do not see how that enters into
it. The Frame of the house was put around it.
MR. MOISA: It is still part of the house.
MR. REICHERT: How does it make it an extension?
MR. MOISA: It is not an extension, it is just part of the orignal
house.
MR. MANAREL: Thank you Mr. Moisa. As I say I misread it because
there is another extension up here. They were just putting in the
parts of the house with the new extension being the 14 x 16. That is
224 square feet. That makes a total assessment of $6939 .
MRS. SCHWICKER: He is using the equalization rate of 11 .19% which
is wrong.
MR. MANAREL: That is the right rate according to . . . .What are
you using?
MR. REICHERT: 11. 19%.
MR. MANAREL: That is what you just said. 11. 19%. As long as we
clear it up that is the important thing. 1972 was $700. 00 and added
improvementz . . .
MR. MARKEL: Did you get a Temik notification?
MR. REICHERT: I got none on the recent survey.
MR. MANAREL: What is the request?
MR. REICHERT: You can remove the staples. I just said see the
attached sheets.
MR. MANAREL: This is supposed to be filled out, Pat?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes, it sure is even though he has an explanation
attached here evidently that he feels he could not fit in there. I
still feel the information should be there. The value of the property,
his insurance.
MR. MANAREL: We' ll give Mr. Reichert time to do that.
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 22
MRS. SCHWICKER: Why don' t you take that and fill it - in. We need
figures there. If you need this to go buy, take it. We need to have
this information here filled out. We need to see what you want the
property decreased to.
MR. MANAREL: Do you understand, Mr. Reichert?
MRS . SCHWICKER: We have to know Mr. Reichert, how much you feel
your property is overassessed. What type of reduction you wish.
MR. REICHERT: If you take it on the gross value, I would say
it is overassessed by about $10,000.00 .
MR. MANERAL: Mr. Reichert, our problem is this. We are bound
by law to our scope of being able to work. We are told by the Real
Property Tax people, who give us our information, that unless the
form is filled out, we cannot act. We can only act on what is on
the form.
MR. REICHERT: Oh, I'm sorry.
MR. MANAREL: That' s all right. I just wanted you to know where
we stand.
MR. REICHERT: I have nothing but compliments for you people.
You run a good town. I like Southold.
MRS. SCHWICKER: We need a figure to go by. What you want a
reduction of. How much you want your assessed valuation reduced.
Not dollars, assessed valuation.
The Board helped Mr. Reichert fill out his application so they
could act on it.
MR. MARKEL: Mr. Richert, did you find any comparable properties
in the books.
MR. REICHERT: Yes, I did. I found a couple.
MR. MARKEL: Do you want to give us these
MR. REICHERT: No, I don' t think that is fair. They are assessed
lower than I am. I feel that is their good fortune. I 'm tying to do
this entirely on my own merits.
MR. MANERAL: Are there any other questions.
MR. REICHERT: No, it is just pure and simple to me. I work it
out to $75,000. 00. I don' t think anyone would pay that for this
house. My location is not comparable to some of the houses I found.
MR. MANERAL: Thank you very much, Mr. Reichert. You will hear
from us in about a month.
Town of Southold 0
Grievance Day - Page 23
MR. REICHERT: You will notify me then?
MR. MANAREL: Yes, we will.
NO. 7 - HELENE J. SCHMIDT, P. O. Box K, Greenport, New York
GROUNDS FOR THE COMPLAINT ON ASSESSMENT: OVERVALUATION.
Full market value : $9 ,000. 00; Assessed valuation of property:
$2 ,000. 00; Amount of overvaluation claimed: $700 .00; Complainant
believes the assessment should be reduced to$1,300 . 00 .
MRS. SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO MRS. SCHMIDT:
MR. MANERAL: Will you tell us Mrs. Schmidt, what is on your
mind?
HELENE SCHMIDT: I asked my husband to fill in the form. About
farms I know very little. I know we have all together about 32
acres of farmland in Orient. 6 or 7. 88 acres have been added. I
do not remember the year. How many acres was that?
ERICH SCHMIDT: Originally 7. 88 acres.
MR. MANERAL: It will be on the tax card that we have here.
MR. SCHMIDT: I have the tax card here.
MRS. SCHMIDT: We were assessed at a higher value because the
taxes have been based on the value of 6. 88 acres, but we have been
paying taxes on 7 . 88 acres all along.
MR. HEUSER: In other words you figure there is double taxation?
MRS. SCHMIDT: No, we have added to the farm 7. 88 acres . At what
time I do not remember. It was years back. Now, the roll of taxes
claims that a mistake was made that we have been paying an additional
on 6. 88 acres, while in reality it is 7. 88.
MR. MARKEL: You were assessed for less then.
MRS. SCHMIDT: Yes. But in reality we have been paying on 7. 88
acres. We have been paying the correct amount.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Let' s see the card.
MR. HEUSER: You have been paying on 7. 88 acres.
MRS. SCHMIDT: Right.
MR. HEUSER: Now this says by survey made May 9, 1980.
Town of Southold 0
Grievance Day - Page 24
MR. SCHMIDT: They rechecked it this year.
MR. MANAREL: It was surveyed in May of this year, according
to this card. It shows 7. 88.
MRS. SCHMIDT: That is correct.
MR. SCHMIDT: That is what we have been paying on for the past
12 to 15 years .
MRS. SCHMIDT: We have been paying for that all along. It was
established that we have been paying on 7: 88 acres instead of on 6
acres.
MR. MARKEL: These both show 7. 88 acres.
MR. SCHMIDT: They found out that the original acres before 1980
6. 88. That is not true.
MR. MARKEL: That is not on his bill.
MR. SCHMIDT: It was not on any of the bills. I have them all .
MRS . SCHMIDT: Right. It was established we have been paying the
wrong acreage. In reality, we have been paying the right acres.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Excuse me, Red. If Mr. Schmidt is going to
testify and give an opinion, he has to be sworn in.
MR. MANAREL: That' s right, I'm sorry.
MRS . SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO E.RICH SCHMIDT.
MRS. SCHMIDT: We have been paying khe correct amount all along.
MR. SCHMIDT: We have always been paying on 7. 88. I was told by
the assessors office they checked it this year and they found we had
paid always for 6 . 88 acres, which is not correct.
MR. MANAREL: I'm sorry, but I cannot read this. Now, you have
9,000. 00 here. You have assessed valuation of, what is this amount?
MR. SCHMIDT: That should be. . . .
MR. MARKEL: That is the same assessed valuation. The tax rate
went up. The assessed valuation didn' t go up. Look, it was $1700.00
there, and it is $1700 here.
MRS. SCHMIDT: That was not the reason the taxes went up?
MR. MARKEL: The tax rate went up. The assessors did not change
it.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Pag'1 25
the assessment. .
MR. HEUSER: The tax rate went up.
MRS . SCHMIDT: We were under the impression the assessed valuation
was increased.
MRS . SCHWICKER: You were not reassessed. Your tax rate went up
like eveyone else' s.
MRS. SCHMIDT: One problem solved. I 'm sorry.
MR. SCHMIDT: I was confused.
MR. MARKEL: That ' s all right.
MR. HEUSER: No problem at all. That is what we are here for.
MRS. SCHMIDT: The second problem is my son and friends.
MR. HEUSER: Now, wait a minute, do you have another claim?
MR. MARKEL: Here it is.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Sam, a new application, they have to be sworn in
again.
MR. MANAREL: Wait a minute, every piece of property is a different
case.
LET THE RECORD SHOW THIS APPLICATION WAS WIDTHDRAWN.
NO. 8 - Helene J. Schmidt, P. 0. Box k, Greenport, New York.
GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT ON ASSESSMENT: OVERVALUATION. Full market
value of property: $ ,000 . 00 ; Assessed valuation of property: $1,000.00;
Amount of overvaluation claimed: $500 . 00; Complainant believes the
assessment should be reduced to $1, 000 . 00.
MRS. SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO HELEN J. SCHMIDT AND ERICH
SCHMIDT.
MR. MARKEL: Let' s see what this says. Market value : $5,000 . 00;
MR. HEUSER: Reducation asked for $500. 00 . It should be reduced to
$1,000 . 00.
The Board held a discussion concerning the application figures
presented.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Pages 26
MR. MANERAL: This says it was raised from $1700 to $2,000.00 .
MR. MARKEL: That is on the other one.
MR. MANAREL: Wait a minute, I am getting confused.
MR. HEUSER: There is another card.
MR. MANAREL: This is the wrong one. This is the card for the
7. 88 acres. That has nothing to do with this. That is the one you
withdrew.
MR. SCHMIDT: I see now where it was raised from $1700 to $2,000 .00 .
You said before it was not raised.
MR. MARKEL: According to those tax bills, it wasn' t raised.
MR. SCHMIDT: This was the notice I got.
MR. MANAREL: Regardless of the notice. When you put down your
money and it is the same amount, what do you care about a notice .
MRS. SCHWICKER: Can I have the papers please, the application?
MR. HEUSER: To number 8?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes . I 'm going to read the applications from
now on. Then everyone will understand what is going on.
MR. MARKEL: Read them to us so we can all hear what is going on.
MR. WEINHEIMER: It is very difficult being down this end.
MR. HEUSER: No. 8 is the one that is up for debate now, isn' t
it?
MR. MANAREL: Yes , No. 8.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Mr. and Mrs. Schmidt claim they have full market
of the property of $5, 000. 00. and that they have an overvaluation of
$500 . 00. They believe the assessment should be reduced to $1,000.00 .
Now that is $ value, they are not putting the correct amount down.
Understand.
MR. MARKEL: They are using their tax figure rather than assessed
valuation.
MRS . SCHWICKER: They are using the money figure. They want $1,000 . 00
off on their taxes. You can' t use the money value. Assessed valuation
is the amount that we want. She says an overvaluation of $500 .00 .
So that is what we should take.
MR. MARKEL: Okay.
Towp of Southold .
Grievance Day - Page 27
MRS. SCHWICKER: That is what we should take. That is what they
are claiming for a reduction. They say it is presently $5,000 . 00 if
I understand this correctly. Now, she has market value.
MR. WEINHEIMER: It should be market value.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Now wait a minute. $1500 is the total assessment,
the total assessed valuation. You want a $500 . 00 reduction on that or
a $1, 000 .00 reduction on that? She wants a $500. 00 reduction on her
assessed valuation.
MR. MARKEL: Which would bring it down to $1,000. 00.
MRS . SCHWICKER: From $11,500. 00 .
MR. MARKEL: What basis are they using?
MRS . SCHWICKER: Overvaluation.
MR. MARKEL: Vacant land?
MR. SCHMIDT: Yes , just bare land.
MR. MARKEL: How big is the parcel?
MR. SCHMIDT: 7. 88 acres.
MR. MANERAL: No, no, you are mixing the two up again.
MRS . SCHWICKER: No, this is only 2 acres.
MR. HEUSER: Pat, can I see the card on it?
MR. SCHMIDT: Oh, you are talking about the other one.
MRS . SCHWICKER: This is the second application. It is 2. 411
acres.
MR. HEUSER: It was purchased for 16 ,712. 00 .
MR. SCHMIDT: There used to be a building on it. We added this
to the farm.
MR. MARKEL: How large is the farm?
MRS. SCHMIDT: You see actually it was purchased from my son' s
friend. It was his property. He wanted to sell it.
MR. MANERAL: You paid $16, 712. 00 .
MRS. SCHMIDT: Yes, we overpaid, but he needed the money. They
were a young couple. So my husband helped him out. He purchased it
and added it to the farm.
Town of Southold
' Grievance Day - J0 28
MR. MARKEL: When you added it to the farm. On the tax map it
has a separate number. Did you get a separate bill for this?
MR. SCHMIDT: Yes, I did. For farmland, this is too high.
MR. HEUSER: From 1973 until up to now it has never been increased.
MR. MARKEL: That doesn' t apply as farmland.
MR. SCHMIDT: It is too high. They claim it is farmland and
operating it as a farm.
MR. MANAREL: Are you farming it?
MRS . SCHMIDT: Yes.
MR. MARKEL: Then it is no good.
MR. MANAREL: Are you talking about this piece?
MR. SCHMIDT: But it is added to a farm which is 30 acres. .
MR. MANAREL: But it is a separate piece of property. You don' t
have one piece of property.
MR. HEUSER: You cannot add it together.
MR. SCHMIDT: What can we do?
MR. MARKEL: You have got to apply through the planning board.
MR. SCHMIDT: The County recognizes this as farmland.
MR. MARKEL: I agree with you, but you are getting two separate
bills.
MRS. SCHMIDT: I know, I know, you get two separate bills .
MR. MARKEL: We can't do anything.
MR. MANAREL: Let' s not come to any decisions, please.
MR. SCHMIDT: Nobody pays for farmland
MR. MANAREL: Are there any other questions?
MR. HEUSER: Mrs. Schmidt, before you do leave. When you get this
small type of acreage, you cannot classify it as farmland. You must
get it consolidated with your other piece of property. Sell it to
your husband or sell it to yourself.
MR. MANAREL: When you go out, talk to one of the assessors.
Ask them about it. Ask them what can be done about your problem.
Town of Southold 40
' Gribvance Day - Paf 29
MR. SCHMIDT: They promise me every year they will check it out.
They say they will reassess it.
MR. MANAREL: Mr. Moisa is out there in the lobby and he will help
you. He will help you with your problem. In the mean time you will
hear from us within a month.
MR. 9 . - PHYLLIS E. HALE, 200 Village Lane, Orient, New York
GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT ON ASSESSMENT: INEQUALITY: Full market
value of property: $150 ,000 . 00. Complainant believes the assessment
should be reduced to $14 ,008. 00. OVERVALUATION: Full market value
of property: $15 ,000. 00; Assessed valuation of property: $14,600 .00;
Amount of overvaluation claimed: $592 .00 (assessed valuation) ;
Complainant believes the assessment should be reduced to $14,008. 00 .
MRS. SCHWICKER: Let me read this.
WILLIAM H. PRICE, JR. : For the record I am William H. Price, Jr. ,
attorney, with offices at 828 Front Street, Greenport, New York, I
represent Phyllis E. Hale.
MRS. SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO WILLIAM H. PRICE, JR.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Mr. Price, your application must be filled out.
MR. PRICE: It is filled out. It should say see rider attached.
There is the rider.
MR. MANAREL: Do you want to present your case for the full board,
Mr. Price?
MR. PRICE: What this application is all about is that particular
piece of property was approved as a minor subdivision by the Town of
Southold on February 7, 1977. One of the conditions that the Planning
Board put upon granting this minor subdivision is that a large portion
of the property, 8%, be set aside for possible dedication to the Town
of Southold for the proposed or possible east west road running the
hamlet of Orient. My clients have lost the total beneficial use of
that property. It cannot be conveyed. It cannot be used. The proposed
road is not connected on either side of this property. It therefore
seems unlikely that in the near future that the road will ever be
constructed. In that the Town of Southold through its Planning Board
required this to be done three years we feel that the assessment for
the land should be reduced commensurably with the amount that will have
to be dedicated to the Town of Southold in the future. I would like to
emphasize the fact that this dedication at the moment would have no
beneficial use to this property. They are deriving no benefits from
said.
MR. MANAREL: Excuse me. May I ask you a question at this point?
You said the Planning Board requested this property?
MR. PRICE: Required this property.
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 30
MR. MANAREL: Did they buy it?
MR. PRICE: No.
MR. MANERAL: It was set aside?
MR. PRICE: It was set aside.
MR. MANAREL: When it is set aside, it is owned by whom?
MR. PRICE: We have the title for the fee. But we have no way
to use the property for anything.
MR. HEUSER: That is common practice. Now, may I also ask a
question. What year was that set aside?
MR. PRICE: 1977.
MR. HEUSER: At which time you had an assessed valuation on land
of $7,400. 00.
MR. PRICE: That' s right, but that assessment. . . . that was for
the total acreage at that time. If you will look at the tax. . .
MR. HEUSER: What is the total acreage today, sir?
MR. PRICE: The total acreage today that we own the fee to is
7. 378 acres.
MR. HEUSER: That' s right.
MR. PRICE: Now, this is, if I may, this particular piece of
property which included in the 7. 378 acres cannot be used by my
clients. They cannot sell it. They cannot do anything with it.
MR. MARKEL: How big is it?
MR. PRICE: It is 50 feet by 457. 24 feet.
MR. MANAREL: Let me ask this question. I am a neophyte here,
on this particular point. When there is a development that takes
place and part of the Planning Commission says to a developer that
if you develop this land you must leave so much room for a road.
Is this the case?
MR. PRICE: Not particularly in this instance .
MR. MANAREL: Okay, that is what I wanted to know.
MR. PRICE: This is what was required of the clients for access
for ingress and egress. This 50 foot right of way running down the
property to the Main Road. As you will note it runs all the way down
through the subdivision itself. It has nothing to do with this par-
ticular piece of property. This is this proposed road.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 31
MR. MARKEL: That is a state road, isn' t it?
MR. PRICE: No, as far as we know, it is still for a Town road.
In addition for the record my clients went along with this proposed
dedication of the road because it was economically infeasible to
contest it.
MR. MARKEL: Who would have to put that road in?
MR. PRICE: The Town of Southold.
MR. HEUSER: When you purchase property out here as I did. My
property line runs to the middle of the road.
MR. PRICE: In a subdivision, sir? Yes.
MR. HEUSER: Therefore I am paying taxes on that yet I cannot
use it either.
MR. PRICE: There is a difference here. In a subdivision they
put in streets so you can have ingress and egress to and from the
subdivision.
MR. HEUSER: That' s right.
MR. PRICE : That is why you have title half way out into the street.
MR. HEUSER: That' s true.
MR. PRICE: If the road has not been dedicated to the Town at that
time. . . .
MR. HEUSER: They have the 7 feet.
MR. PRICE: You have the interest in there. If you have a property
owners association or developer they control those particular roads.
for ingress and egress. In this particular instance this dedicated
portion has nothing to do with the ingress and egress of the subdivision.
The only reason this was required to be set aside because the Planning
Board thought in the future it would be nice to have another east-west
road running through Orient. We don' t need the east west road. We have
ingress and egress along this 50 foot right of way from the Main Road
right into this minor subdivision.
MR. MARKEL: Do you own the land on both sides of it?
MR. PRICE : Phyllis Hale, my client, own this- property. Barbara
Hughes her sister, owns this particular parcel.
MR. MARKEL: Okay.
MR. PRICE: That is why as far as my application stated I could
not come up with a market value because the two sisters inherited the
property.
MR. MARKEL: Would you say that is about a half acre that was to
, Town of Southold
Grievance Day - PagF32
be dedicated?
MR. PRICE: I would say it would be about that, yes.
MR. HEUSER: 50 feet by what?
MR. MARKEL: 457 feet. Approximately a half acre.
MR. MANAREL: Are they selling any of these lots?
MR. PRICE: Not to my knowledge.
MR. HEUSER: The access road that we previously discussed, is
that a dirt road or a paved road?
MR. PRICE: I believe it is a dirt road.
MR. MARKEL: That is the other one they have to dedicate.
MR. MANAREL: This is a boundary line.
MR. HEUSER: This is the one he is talking about.
MR. PRICE: Did you hear me down at this end?
MRS . SCHWICKER: Yes.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Yes.
MR. MANAREL: What I was getting at. This is not complete.
We have got to have all this information filled out.
MR. PRICE: Are there any further questions?
MR. HEUSER: There will be in a minute.
MR. MANAREL: You have to make a guesstimate, an evaluation,
whatever.
MISS CORNINE: That is not his application.
MR. MANAREL: That' s not his. I have Helen S. Price.
MISS CORNINE: You are ahead of yourself.
MR. MANAREL: Hale. That is the one we want.
MISS CORVINE: There you go.
MR. MANAREL: It is okay that you want overvaluation. But you
have got to come up with figures here .
MR. PRICE: I have the rider attached.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Pago 33
MR. MANAREL: The rider will not mean a thing to us unless you
put down in black and white what you want. That has got to be done.
MR. MARKEL: On the other copy, not this copy.
MR. MANAREL: Can we see the copy. . . . . .
MR. MARKEL: He can go over here and take the time to fill out
this application.
MR. HEUSER: Even if you pull them out some place.
MR. PRICE: What is the equalization rate?
MRS. SCHWICKER: 11. 19%
MR. PRICE: What was that again?
MR. MANAREL: 11. 19%
MR. WEINHEIMER: What is the equalization rate? 11. 71%?
MR. MANAREL: 11.19%.
MR. PRICE: Why don' t you take these folks and I will finish
this.
MANAREL: Take your time there.
NO. 10 - HELEN S. PRICE, Box 528, Mattituck, New York.
GROUNDS FOR COMPLAINT ON ASSESSMENT: OVERVALUATION: Full market
value of property: $45, 000 .00. Complainant believes the assessment
should be reduced to $1,500 . 00 .
MR. MANAREL: Mrs. Schwicker will swear you in. Then we will ask you
to complete this form.
MRS. SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO HELEN S. PRICE.
MR. MANAREL: Would you fill this figure in. This is what this
young man sitting at the table is doing. We must have figures here.
MRS . PRICE: Now, I truthfully do not know what to put there. I
would have no idea whatsoever. I did not look at the other records
of the neighbors.
MR. MANAREL: We are bound by what the law permits us to do. We
cannot act on anything unless you ask us to. The only way we can do
it is for you to complete this form because you have here it is over-
valuation. So you must give us an idea of a value. You know what your
house is insured for, don 't you.
MRS. PRICE: Yes, I insured it for what I paid for it.
Town of Southold ' 0
Grievance Day - Pag'� 34
MR. MANAREL: Okay, then that is what the market value is.
Would you like a pen.
MRS. PRICE: No . I have one - thank vou.
MR. MARKEL HAD TO LEAVE THE HEARINGS AT 10: 40 A.M.
THE BOARD TOOK. A BREAK-AT 10 :40 A.M. and returned and convened
the hearings at 10: 50 P.M. with the following present: Samuel Manarel,
Theodore Heuser, Patricia Schwicker and William Weinheimer.
NO. 10 - HELEN S. PRICE
Let the record show that after Mrs. Price reviewed her application
with Mr. Kelsey, the Chairman of the Assessors that she wishes to
withdraw her application.
NO. 2 . - DOROTHY A. REIBLING
MR. HEUSER: According to the assessors if they so wished she
could be assessed back taxes for all those years, as she was not
charged for this particular shed. Therefore, it is my recommendation
that her claim be turned down.
MR. MANAREL: Any other opinion?
MR. WEINHEIMER: I'm not supposed to vote, but I have just one
question before. Does she not state there that when she bought the
house that shed was already attached to the property?
MR. HEUSER: Doesn' t change it.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Evidently, they missed it.
MR. HEUSER: You know why it was missed, Bill? They never went
down to Howard Terry and got a building permit for it.
MR. WEINHEIMER: You don' t mean her, you mean the former owners .
MR. HEUSER: The former owners. So she has not paid taxes on it.
The fact they caught it now was because some neighbor informed them.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Recently?
MR. HEUSER: That is what he intimated to me.
MISS CORNINE: They were down there assessing and saw it.
Town of Southold
Gribvance Day - 35�
MR. HEUSER: That is what is was. You are correct.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Ted, the reason I am personally acquainted is
that MRS. Reibling, she doesn' t live in that particular place on the
beach. She lives in Laughing Waters. Apparently within the last year
she built a fence between her property and the man next door, which
obscures his view of the water. So it is very possible he is the one
that turned her in.
MR. HEUSER: He' s the one who turned her in.
MR. MANAREL: Nevertheless, since we are dealing with factual
information, and the facts seem to substantiate the denial, are
there any other questions? Let the record show that Mrs. Reibling' s
request has been DENIED.
MR. HEUSER: Now do you want to stop and go back and do number
1?
MR. SCHWICKER: Robert Cummins.
NO. 1 - ROBERT CUMMINS
MR. SCHWICKER: He is the one who has the property at Peconic,
which is subdivided.
MR. HEUSER: The land was subdivided into half acres at $500 .00 .
MR. WEINHEIMER: They are one acres now though.
MRS . SCHWICKER: Yes , one acre.
MR. HEUSER: I have half acres.
MR. WEINHEIMER: He has all one acres.
MRS. SCHWICKER: I asked him if they had been half acres and were
increased to one acre.
MR. HEUSER: Isn't this the fellow with 24 lots?
MR. WEINHERIMER: Yes.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes.
MR. HEUSER: He has half acre lots throughout.
MR. WEINHEIMER: He has one half acre to acre.
MRS . SCHWICKER: They were rezoned. They were origihally one half
Town of Southold .
Grievance Day - Pa# 36
acres and they went to one acre lots.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Right.
MRS . SCHWICKER: They are priced at $500 . 00 .
MR. MANAREL: Per acre.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Per acre.
MR. MANAREL: For undeveloped land.
MR. HEUSER: Does that give him 24 lots?
MRS. SCHWICKER: He has a parcel of land that consists of
4 acres that he is being charged $1500 for. So he is getting one
acre free. It is supposed to be $500. 00 per acre.
MR. MANAREL: Then the cards do not reflect the fact that the
lots have gone to one acre.
MR. HEUSER: Every one is a half acre.
MR. MANAREL: Everyone of them shows approximately a half acre.
MR. HEUSER: Some a little over.
MISS CORNINE: Do you understand the cluster concept? This is
developed under a cluster plan.'
MR. MANAFEL: Yes, no. Tell us please.
MISS CORNINE: When you do a cluster review houses are built
on half acre parcels. The other half acre is left undeveloped.
MRS. SCHWICKER: It is sold as acre lots.
MR. HEUSER: All the ,cards we have show half acres.
MISS CORNINE: That' s right. The other half acre is left in
undeveloped land.
MR. MANAERL: You buy lot 1 to build your house on lot 1, but
no house is built on lot 2.
MR. HEUSER: Let me get this clear in my mind. He says he has
13 acres and 24 lots.
MR. MANAREL: And 13 acres.
MR. HEUSER: No, on 13 acres.
MR. MANAREL: No, and. There is 13 acres. There is half acre
Town of Southold • •
Grievance Day - Page 37
subdivision. There is farmland to subdivision. Also there is
13-1/2 acres set aside, undescribed he called it at $300 per acre.
MR. WEINHEIMER: On the 13 acres set aside. Is that for
development of the roads and parks?
MR. MANAREL: Charles Who has Peconic? Why don' t you both come
up.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Indian Neck Lane and the Main Road.
MR. MOISA: Oh, I have that.
MR. MANAREL: Okay, we are a little confused on proper identi-
fication more than anything else.
MR. MOISA: R.E.C. Realty Corp?
MR. MANAREL: Yes, we are a little confused on proper identi-
fication. The cards state that there are 24 approximately 1/2
acre lots.
MR. MOISA: That' s right.
MR. MANAREL: Then there is a 13-1/2 undescribed parcel.
MR. MOISA: Right.
MR. MANAREL: There is confusion here as to whether he is
assessed at $500 per half acre or $500 per acre.
MR. MOISA: Here ' s your acreage here. Here' s the assessment
against the acreage. The reason is that this is undescribed is
because there is no number attached to any of these pieces. This
land consists of land that is around the perimeter of this sub-
division, along the Main Road, along the creek and then there is
a piece along Spring Lane.
MR. MANAREL: It' s a fence in other words.
MR. MOISA: It is a buffer zone . So that is what is involved
in the described area. Thes here are lots as they are designated
on the map. This is a subdivision. I can bring you the map if you
want if you want to look at it. Maybe I had better bring it.
MR. HEUSER: That ' s okay. $500. 00 on the subidivision, $300 . 00
on the land.
MR. MOISA: Some of this as I say along the creek. . . .Let me get
the map, you can understand it better.
MR. WATTS: He called me twice on that. He called Henry twice
on that. I said it is a filed subdivision.
Town of Southold .
Grievance Day - PagV38
MR.MANAREL: His main complaint. . . .
MR. HEUSER: He thought they should stay as farm land because
they have not developed yet. He thought it should stay on farm
land rate.
MR. WATTS: That' s right, that is what his complaint is.
It doesn' t. Any subdivision changes. As soon as it is subdivided,
you can sell any parcel you want, where you could not before.
MR. MANERAL: Would you mind explaining cluster subdivision
again.
MR. WATTS: ; On a cluser, take Pebble Beach Farms, for instance.
Pebble Beach Farms is a cluster development, and as such you have
to put so many acres of that parcel aside for recreation and what-
ever. That will never be built upon. That way they get a cluster
development. If it is approved, it has to be approved.
MR. MANAREL: When you have a cluser development - This fellow
got half acres. Under the Town zoning laws, it says you have to
build on acres .
MR. WATTS: Yes, but in a Cluster zoning the Planning Board will
at times give them persmission as long as they set so many acres
aside of that land.
MR. MOISA: Here is the subdivision. Subdivision as per numbered
here, that is what these half acre lots are - some are better than
half acre. The other described as I said are on the outside perimeter
of this subdivision. Some of that is along the creek and all, and
that is involved in the 13-1/2 acres.
MR. HEUSER: Right.
MR. MOISA: Plus the road. Somebody has got to own the road.
Until they turn it over to the Town they are going to be assessed for
this road.
MR. HEUSER: He has 13-1/2 acres here exclusive of the subdivision?
MR. MOISA: Yes.
MR. HEUSER: Where are those acres again?
MR. MOISA: This, this, this .
MR. WATTS: I was explaining to them on a subdivision, Henry, that
on a cluster subdivision like this, so much of the land has to be set
aside. That is the only basis on which they will give them the sub-
division.
MR. MOISA: Yes.
MR. MANAREL: They only build on a half acre? - - --
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Pa• 39
MR. WATTS: Right.
MR. WEINHEIMER: In addition to this reserved space, everyone
of these houses is really on a one acre plot of land?
MR. MOISA: If you take all of the land into consideration.
That' s the theory of the thing, you see.
MR. WEINHEIMER: You pay taxes on the whole acre though.
MR. MOISA: No, they will have to pay their proportionate share
of the undeveloped land. They will probably form an assocation
or something. We have that same set up in Pebble Beach. Only there,
they have about 100 acres that is set aside in addition to the lots .
MR. HEUSER: How many square feet in an acre?
MR. MOISA: 43,560 square feet.
MR. HEUSER: Why are these lots only 25,000 square feet? That
means they are half acre then.
MR. MANAREL: The correct amount is on the card. What they are
saying is that as long as there is an undeveloped area, the Town
will give them permission under certain consideration to build
houses on half acres.
MR. WATTS: Right.
MR. MOISA: They have given it already. See, this map has been
signed by the Planning Board. Young, sealed.
MR. WATTS: His argument on the phone to me was the land is the
same as when he bought it. It is not the same now.
MR. WEINHEIMER: If everyone took all the acreage of the reserve
area plus what is in there, if you divide the number of units into
that total acreage you come down to about an acre apiece, doesn' t it.
MR. MOISA: Yes. There is a formula when I was on the Planning
Board which went like: 80% of the property will go into lots; 20%
is left in abeyance for roads, playground or recharge basins or
whatever. So actually about 80% can have lots for homes. It may
be little small, because maybe 20% is a little more.
MR. HEUSER: Thank you, Henry.
MR. MOISA: That is the concept of it.
MR. WEINHEIMER: But he had no plans of going into that develop-
ment.
MR. MOISA: It' s approved. It is a development.
Town of Southold .
Grievance Day - Pag�40
MR. WEINHEIMER: I mean factually or actually. I asked him a
question if he planned on develop it. He said no.
MRS. SCHWICKER: He said he would eventually.
MR. WATTS: But he can do it tomorrow.
MR. MOISA: As long as he sold the lots along Indian Neck Lane,
he could get Building Permit because they have an access to a public
road. Otherwise, for the interior lots, he has to put the roads in.
MR. WEINHEIMER: If you bought this land, what proportion of the
undeveloped land would you have to add to your taxes.
MR. MOISA: Whatever deal he makes with this property owner.
They uisuall make deals„ as you know. Maybe he is going to pay 1/24th
of the taxes, because there are 24 lots there.
MR. HEUSER: I think this is farily taxed, don' t you Sam?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes.
MR. MANAREL: What is the opinion of the Board.
MRS. SCHWICKER: There should be no change on this .
MR. WEINHEIMER: What is the assessment?
MR. HEUSER: $500 on the half acres, $300 on the farmland.
MR. MANAREL: Thank you very much. Then the consensus of this
Board is that the Cummins property, the property represented here,
the R.E.C. Realty Co. shall be denied. Any questions?
NO. 3 - The property of Murray.
MR. MANAREL: Murray was the gentleman if you recall that pre-
sented himself here where he subdivided a parcel of land he bought
because there was a farmer's road in it.
MRS. SCHWICKER: How many acres does he have there?
MR. WEINHERIMER: Is he the one with the four lots with 40,000
square feet?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Were there four?
MR. MANAREL: I 'm trying to find that.
MR. HEUSER: He had 3 lots assessed at $500 each and he thought
that was too hight. Again, that is subdivision lots.
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Pa$P 41
MR. MANAREL: He has 3. 017 acres.
NRS. SCHWICKER: It was three and not four.
MR. HEUSER: No, three.
MR,. WEINHEIMER: We were wrong then, Pat.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes, we were.
MR. HEUSER: He was assessed at $500 an acre.
MR'. MANAREL: Yes.
MRS. SCHWICKER: It was four before the split, that is what it
was.
MR'. MANAREL: 3. 66 .
NIRS. SCHWICKER: There is a building on one of them. On 1.166
there is a building.
MR'. HEUSER: That would be it then.
MR'. WEINHEIMER: What is the standard charge, $500?
MR. HEUSER: Right.
MRS. SCHWICKER: So, he is not being overcharged.
MR'. WEINHEIMER: That is the normal.
MR'. HEUSER: Now, these are acres, by the way. He is only being
charged $500. 00. The other fellow is being charged $500 for half
acres.
MRS . SCHWICKER: I can' t understand that. Why the difference?
MR',. WEINHEIMER: He has to pay taxes on the other land.
MRI. HEUSER: This gentleman also brought up Temik.
MR. MANAREL: Temik.
MR'S,. HEUSER: We asked him if he had a well. He said no, but his
neighbor' s well was bad. That does not mean anything.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Doesn' t mean a thing.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Is this the gentleman with the long winded
description who possibly had Temik in the ground? That elderly gentle-
man.
. Tows of Southold • •
Grievance Day - Page 42
MR'. MANAREL: I asked him specifically if it had been tested, and
he said no.
MRS. SCHWICKER: I can' t believe that would effect him.
MR. MANAREL: What he was trying to explain is that his house
is on a hill, and he has a shallow well that probably the bottom of
the shallow well does not go deep enough to pick the run off from
the lots. I think that is what he was trying to say. We all have
Temik. Since Union Carbide has come in and they will give you the
purifier, I think the question of Temik then becomes academic.
MRS. SCHWICKER: He insinuated that because there is farmland
around', him, there is a possibility of Temik in his water.: I have
farmland behind me, and there is no Temik in our water. There is
no Temik in our neighborhood at all, and we have all been tested.
MR,. MANAREL: I think it is probable, but we cannot decide on
that. We have to decide on facts. What is the Board' s pleasure?
MR'S SCHWICKER: If someone comes in with the exact same situation
as that, Murine, he had a letter from the Board of Health right on his
certificate of occupancy that the water was not suitable for a ,pregnant
woman or small children. That is a valid reason.
MR. WEINHEIMER: No water around here is suitable for a young
child.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Sure there is.
MR'. MANAREL: Can we get to a decision on this?
MRS. SCHWICKER: I don' t think it should be changed. I think he
is being fairly assessed.
MR,. WEINHEIMER: No, that is fair.
MR. HEUSER: We all feel the same.
MR. MANAREL: The Board decides that this shall be denied, and
the assessment will remain the same.
NO. 4 - Mattituck Presbyterian Church.
MR. MANAREL: Now, we have a very difficult one of the Presby-
terian Church.
MR. WEINHEIMER: You know Sam, what we do on this one is going
to set a precedent on all the other ones.
MR. MANAREL: I don' t think so. We have an opinion from the Town
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Pag�43
Attorney, and Mel told me that he has checked with the Real Property
Tax People in Riverhead. Now it is all spelled out it. The main
reasonthat I suggested the man from the little theatre did not speak
is because it has no relevance to our situation at all. I think he
was called in to try and confuse us. The property is not being used
for church purposes, and according to the Town Attorney, Mr. Tasker,
when church owned property is not used for religious purposes, it
should goes on the tax rolls regardless of who uses it or how they
use the property. Whether they let the little theatre borrow it
rent it. That has nothing to do with it. The question is: it' s
church;' property. Is it being used for religious purposes. This is
according to the interpretation of the Town Attorney. The answer is
no. I't is not being used for church purposes; therefore, it should
be on the tax rolls. I'm no expert in this area, but I have to go
along with the attorney' s decision.
MR. WEINHEIMER: What did you get from Ryan?
MR. MANAREL: Not to me, but they did to Mel.
MR. WEINHEIMER: An opinion over the telephone?
MR. MANAREL: Apparently. But I would guess, that Mr. Tasker,
who quotes the same law that Mr. Lundstedt did. Section 421 of the
Real Property Law provides as follows: "§421. Non-profit organizations .
1. (a) Real property owned by a corporation or association organized
or conducted exclusively for religous, charitable, hospital, educational
moral or mental improvements of men, women or children or cemetery
purposes, or for two or more such purposes and used exclusively for
carrying out thereupon one or more of such purposes either by owning
corporation or association or by another such corporation or associa-
tion as hereinafter provided shall be exempt from taxation as provided
in this section. Subsection 2 of Section 421 of the Real Property
Tax Law provides in part as follows: 2 . If any portion of such real
property is not so used exclusively to carry out thereupon one or
more of such purposes but is leased or otherwise used for other pur-
poses, such portion shall be subject to taxation and the remaining
portion only shall be exempt. "
MR. WEINHEIMER: Pretty clear.
MR. MANAREL: It is pretty clear to me.
MR. HEUSER: Except there is no income from that building.
MR. MANAREL: It-ldoesn' t make any difference.
MR. WEINHERIMER: It says leased or for any other purposes.
MR. MANAREL: This parcel is leased or otherwise used for other
purposes.
MR. HEUSER: Or otherwise used.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page*4
MR. MANAREL: It does not qualify for a tax exemption pursuant
to §421 of the Real Property Tax Law. With respect to. . . .
MR. HEUSER: That is going to come up later.
MR. W$INHEIMER: I am inclined to believe that these people are
all going to get together and have a common cause case in the
courts.
MR. MANAREL: I think it should, but since we . . . .
MR. WATTS: There is a call for you.
MR. MANAREL: Pick up the telephone? There isn' t one here.
MR. MANAREL LEFT THE DIAS TO TAKE A LONG DISTANCE TELEPHONE CALL
REGARDING A POSSIBLE APPLICATION BEING FILED WITH THE BOARD.
MR. MANAREL; The phone conversation went along something like
this. I 'm in New York, and I can 't get to the grievance. I don' t
have a grievance form. I want to send you a telegram to protest my
assessment. I am not quoting, I am paraphrasing. It doesn' t agree
with all of the people around me. I told him I didn' t think we
could accept it. I suggested that if he had an attorney out here
and they got the grievance form to us by 9 o' clock tonight that
we could accept it and look it over. No personal representation
was necessary, as long as he got the form to us. We would be
acting on it in a couple of weeks. I told him I was sorry there
wasn' t anything else that I could do. He thanked me, and we con-
cluded the conversation.
MR. HEUSER: You don' t know what he is going to do then?
MR. MANAREL: He thinks he is going to send the wire anyway.
I told if he wanted to go abhead, not being an attorney I could not
advise him of any form at all. I thought that was the way the pro-
cedure would end up. If he doesn' t have a regular form, we can' t
act on it.
MR. WEINHEIMER: That was brought up at the meeting.
MR. HEUSER: I was going to ask you this question too. If you set
a precedent with him, you will have to set a precedent with everybody
else.
MR. WEINHEIMER: I think your suggestion that he contact a local
attorney is the best advice.
MR. MANAREL: I would suggest this. When we write to the attorney
representing the Mattituck Presbyterian Church that we state the
opinion given by the Town Attorney, and under those conditions the
request is denied.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Then they can appeal to the Court.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page
MR. MANAREL: That' s right, they can always appeal to the Court.
If the court adjudicates in their favor, we have a precedent for the
future. As long as our Town Attorney issues a statement, I think it
would be wise on our part to follow his advice. Then am I to under-
stand that this Board is unanimous in denying the request following
the advice of our Town Attorney.
NO. 5. - PRESBYTERY OF LONG ISLAND OF THE UNITED PRESBYTERIAN
CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
MR. MANAREL: This has to do with the request of the Presbyterian
Church in Greenport. I should say the Presbyterian Church property
since it is no longer a church, or serving as a church. The request
was made by Mr. Lundstedt. The opinion of our Attorney-I .think it is
covered in this letter by the fact that the property "if any portion
of such real property is not so used exclusively to-.carry out there-
upon one or more of such purposes but is leased or otherwise used for
other purposes , such portion shall be subject to taxation and the re-
maining portion shall be exempt. " As I understand that this building
is not being used as a church. It is not being used as anything.
MRS. SCHWICKER: That' s right. It is just vacant.
MR. MANAREL: It is vacant.
MRS. SCHWICKER: It has been for seven months.
MR. MANAREL: The Town Attorney is making the same adjudication
on this property as he is on the property in Mattituck.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Except for one thing. He said he fails, the
Church feels, it might stop the Greek church from going into contract
if the property is now on the tax rolls. They may feel it might be
difficult to get it off the tax rolls. They evidently do not know it
is an automatic thing.
MR. HEUSER: I was just going to add that to your statement. I
think we clarified it with Mel and the lawyer that in the event they
were to sell it, they could tell the new purchaser that it would be
returned to a church status on the tax rolls immediately.
MRS. SCHWICKER: If it is done before the lst. of December.
If it is done after December of this year. Therefore, they will have
to pay the taxes for one year if it is done after the first of
December.
MR. MANAREL: We also advised the attorney if I remember correctly
that if there was any complication with the purchaser of that building
that he could take the purchaser right to the assessors, who would
guarantee at that point that the tax would not carry on as long as it
was being used for church purposes .
Towp of Southold
Grievance Day - Page
�6
MR'S. SCHWICKER: you could probably get it in writing.
MR. WEINHEIMER: May I ask a question? The consensus of opinion
is that as long as that church has not been sold and is not used
specifically for religious purposes at the moment, until such time when
it issold to another religious organization, the Presbytery of Long
Island must pay the taxes. As soon as the title is transferred to this
Greek 'church, they would immediately have this tax exempt status, right?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Right.
MR. MANAREL: They would immediately have a tax exempt status if
it became before December 1st. If it is on the tax roll, they would
have to apply for this status.
MR. WEINHEIMER: They might be subject to the first year' s taxes
though.
MR. MANAREL: Partially.
MRS. SCHWICKER: The same if you bought a house mid year.
Mit. MANAREL: It stands to reason, and it was stated here at the
time, ', I believe that this piece of property could also be sold to a
profit making organization.
MR. WEINHEIMER: What is the assessed valuation of that property?
Mkt. MANAREL: It is quite high.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Here it is.
MR. WEINHEIMER: How many dollars are we talking about?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Here it is. $24,900 is the total assessed
valuation.
Mid. MANAREL: I have it differently on the card.
MRS. SCHWICKER: No, 500 for the land and building, 24,500 .
MR. MANAREL: I have a total on this card of 24, 423. 00 .
MR. HEUSER: That is just the building.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Then how did I get the $24, 900?
MR. MANAREL: I 'm looking for total.
MR. SCHWICKER: I have a total of $24, 900 on this.
MR. MANAREL: $24,900 is correct, I 'm sorry. I stand corrected.
MRS. SCHWICKER: $500 for the land.
Town of Southold 0
Gribvance Day - Page*7
MR. MANAREL: I was looking at the wrong total.
MR. WEINHEIMER: That is over $5,000.00 a year in taxes.
MR. MANAREL: Yes.
NR. WEINHEIMER: That is a pretty penny.
MR. HEUSER: Put back on tax roll as;.)per advice of Real Property
and Town Attorney.
MR. MANAREL: Right.
MRS. SCHWICKER: My comments on it were - They do not have a
contract signed, even at this stage of the game. They do not have
a contract signed, yet they want the property taken off the tax
rolls .' I don' t believe it should be done until they have—if
they gp into contract with the promise of closing before December
lst. , 'then fine.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Suppose you don' t have the closing before
December lst.
MRS . SCHWICKER: If they don' t have the closing before December
lst. , they will have a partial payment.
MR. MANAREL: Am I right in assuming that this Board would handle
No. 5 the same way they handled the church property in Mattituck?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Right, no change.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Right.
MR. MANAREL: There will be no change; therefore, it is denied
following the advice of Town Counsel.
MR. HEUSER: Would you care to make a comment that I made here.
The tax could be adjusted if church premises were sold or transferred
before' 12/1/80.
MR. MANAREL: I don't think that falls in our purview.
MR. HEUSER: Okay.
NG. 6 - RAYMOND A. and HELEN G. REICHERT.
MR',. MANAREL: He is the gentleman that had to go over his form
because it wasn' t completely filled out. He made his statement and his
form its here. He said he had no other statement to make and no one
had any more questions to ask of him.
MR. HEUSER: Did we make a decision on this?
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page418
MR. MANAREL: No, we didn' t. We' ll go to that form now.
MRS . SCHWICKER: Just a second. Okay, as far as I can see. He
had ani addition and then a sale. Right? It sold for $11,500 . Then
they had an addition on there. Then a resale.
MR. MANAREL: There is an improvement here. A $600 improvement
here. This is 1978 in $600-improvement. That is from $7900 to
$8500.
MR'. HEUSER: He added to it there.
MR. MANAREL: It sold for $58,000 . 00 to him.
MR. HEUSER: It is assessed for $8500 . 00. They admit $65,000 .00 .
If we use the factor that he uses, we come up with $68 ,000. 00.
MR. MANAREL: What Mr. Heuser is saying here in the figures is
that the full market of Mr. Reichert' s place is $65,000.00. The
property is assessed at $8,500. 00 . Using the computation that
the Town assessors use, the property. . . .
MRS. SCHWICKER: What is the purchase price of the property?
MR,. MANAREL: The proerty would come out to $58,000. 00 . Therefore,
using Mr. Reichert' s figures, the property is under assessed rather
than over assessed. The property was purchased for $54, 000 .00 and
$4,660 coming up to a total of $58, 660. 00 on April 21, 1978 and it was
a cash transaction. Using the figures there the Town assessors have
assessed the property $660 less than the purchase price.
MR. HEUSER: If you multiply this out, we come up with $68, 000.00 .
We are using one-eighth, roughly right now.
MR. MANAREL: Therefore, the property is assessed less than. . . . .
MR. HEUSER: It is assessed for $68, 000. 00 .
MR,. MANAREL: No, it is assessed at. . . . .
MRCS. SCHWICKER: No, $68,000 is what he is assessed for.
MR',. MANAREL: He is assessed at $8,500. 00 .
MR,. HEUSER: But to blow it up to the value you have got to use
the factor of 8 and multiply it.
MR. MANAREL: That' s right.
MR'. HEUSER: So he is underassessed.
MR',. MANAREL: That is what I said. We are all agreeing.
MR. HEUSER: Oh, I though you said he was over assessed.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day Page 41P
MR. MANAREL: No, he is underassessed. If I said overassessed, it
was a 'mistake.
MR. HEUSER: 8 time $8500 is $68, 000. 00. That is his base assess-
ment value. He is only worth $59, 000 . 00 .
MRS. SCHWICKER: He is overassessed by his own market value which
he claims is $58, 000. 00. He paid $58, 000 . 00 . He' s being assessed for
$68, 000 . 00.
MR. HEUSER: That' s right. I agree with you.
MRS . SCHWICKER: Overassessed.
MR. HEUSER: I don't like that factor.
MRS. , SCHWICKER: No.
MRS. SCHWICKER: I don' t understand how you can jump from 4 to 8
in two years.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Wait a minute. If he paid $58, 000 .00 in 1978.
There is no reason why the property is not valued at $65, 000.00 with
a 10% ',inflation rate a year. Anybody' s value is going up every year.
This calls for the current market value. Not the value he paid for
house. We are not assessing people on the current market value are
we?
MR. HEUSER: YOu are assessing them on the 1965 costs .
MRS. SCHWICKER: It is supposed to be the 1965 building costs.
MR. HEUSER: Plus the factor.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Then that should be 4 instead of 8.
MR. HEUSER: That is the factor. That is what I say.
MRS. SCHWICKER: It should be what we have been doing every year
for the past 5 years, using 4 instead of 8.
MR. HEUSER: I agree with you.
MRS. SCHWICKER: He is doing it on almost a 100% value.
MR. HEUSER: Right.
MR'S. SCHWICKER: That is how come I said in two years it has
increased from 4 to 8 percent.
The Board proceeded to hold a discussion off the record.
MR. HEUSER: I am talking about this.
Towp of Southold
Grievance Day - Page�0
MR',. HEUSER: I 'm talking about this. Concrete. Full basement.
Wood shingles - wood shingles - fireplace - fireplace. Gable type
roof. iThat doesn' t make any difference. Baths, two . Baths, one.
Oak flloors - oak floors. Wall board - sheetrock. Heat, they both
have baseboard heat.
MR. MARKEL: That is a pretty good comparison.
MR'. HEUSER: 6948 - 6939 -
MR,. MARKEL: That is pretty good.
MIS_S _ CORNINE: Can I have the name of the that you just used
as a comparison.
MR',. MARKEL: Richard Whitney.
MR;. MARKEL: Didn ' t I pick a good one.
MR. HEUSER: They are exactly the same.
MR. MANAREL: What I want to know is the living area space the
same.
MR'. HEUSER: 6939 - 6948
MR'. WEINHEIMER: The living space area will be a different line.
MR'. MARKEL: It is practically the same.
MR',. HEUSER: They all lined up.
MR'. WEINHEIMER: They are all on one acres.
MR. MANAREL: Some of them are changed.
MR'. HEUSER: Now this house is not comparable. It only has 4800
square feet in it.
MR',. MARKEL: Well, okay. And it has a separate building in the
back.
MR'. HEUSER: It has a $3. 25 rate because it has not fireplace.•
MR. MARKEL: It doesn't say garage on this?
MR',. HEUSER: Baseboard hot water heat.
MR'. MARKEL: There is a garage.
MR'. WEINHEIMER: There it is over there.
MR'. MARKEL: Okay.
Towji of Southold
Grievalnce Day - Page 51
Mit. HEUSER: He has his rate reduced by 25 cents because he has
no fireplace.
MR. MARKEL: Yes.
MR. HEUSER: No argument at al. .
MR. MANAREL: Then Ladies and Gentlemen.
MRS. SCHWICKER: No change.
MR. MANAREL: There will be no change due to the fact that we
pulled comparable properties.
MR. HEUSER: Now, wait a minute. Who was it again?
MRS. SCBRICKER: Richard Whitney and Glassick?
MR. MANAREL: Similar places.
MR. HEUSER: Same base.
MR. MARKEL: Practically the sante.
MR. HEUSER: I don' t think he has any complaints. Do you think
so? Do we have to put the machine on now?
MISS CORNINE: The machine is on.
MR. MANAREL: The machine is one. Therefore, the request of
a change of assessed valuation for Raymond A. and Helen G. Reichert
is hereby denied. Any questions?
MR. MARKS: My questions have all been answered.
NO. 7 - WITHDRAWN
NO. 8 - HELENE J. SCHMIDT.
MR. NIANAREL: No. 8 is the property of Helene J. Schmidt.
MR. HEUSER: She couldn' t get that rate because there wasn 't
enough acreage for farmland.
MR. MARKEL: It is not a farm rate.
MR. MANAREL: 2. 411 acres. She applied on the basis that they
want it assessed on the same basis as f arms . are assessed. She says
she doesn 't have the minimum of 10 acres. We cannot change the
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Pag*2
assessment.
MR. MANAREL: It should also be noted that it was recommended
to Mr. and Mrs. Schmidt that they go to the assessors to see if they
could consolidate the two pieces of property that they own so they
could come up with better than 10 acres of land. Thereby, they could
possibly justifying qualifying for the farm rate.
MR. WEINHEIMER: What is the farm rate? $300. 00 per acre?
MR. MARKEL: Right.
MR. MANAREL: It is $250 . 00 if it is farmed and $300 if it is
not farmed.
MRS. SCHWICKER: $300 . 00 if it is just vacant property.
MR. MANAREL: If it is not farmed it is $300 an acre. If it
is farmed it is $250. 00
MR. WEINHEIMER: And if it is undeveloped?
MR. MANAREL: That is something else. I 'm not sure about that.
MRS. SCHWICKER: If it is undeveloped and a subdivision it is
$500. 00.
MR. WEINHEIMER: She has 2 . 4 acres and she is assessed for
$1500.
MR. HEUSER: Right.
MR. WEINHEIMER: At $600 it would make $1500 .
MR. HEUSER: That' s right.
MR. MANAREL: But she is not farmland. We were talking farmland.
MR. WEINHEIMER: That is the consensus on that, no?
MR. MANAREL: The consensus was no because she did not have
the necessary acreage.
MR. MARKEL: She did not meet the criteria.
NO. 9 - PHYLLIS E. HALE.
MR. MANAREL: I will turn these over to our accountant here.
MRS. SCHWICKER: This was the right of way.
MR. HEUSER: His main complaint was on the right-of-way.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - PageR3
MR. MARKEL: On the half acre that the Planning Board said had
to be set aside for the possibility of a road.
MR. MANAREL: That' s correct.
MRS. SCHWICKER: 50 foot.
MR. MARKEL: I think we ought to have a legal opinion on that.
MR. HEUSER: He contended that was dedicated to the Town, but
she doesn' t want to pay taxes on it.
MR. MARKEL: It hasn' t been deeded over to the Town yet. She-
still owns it. My own particular feeling is that is no different
than the church property that is owned by an exempt organization
and not being used for religious purposes and there still have to
be taxes on it. If she doesn' t want to pay taxes on it, why doesn' t
she deed it over to the Town?
MRS. SCHWICKER: It is the same thing you run into with the
water line thing on shore front property. On waterfront property where
they have lost so much property because of erosion and everything else.
They don' t want to deed that property over to the Town, and say okay
you can have because if it ever changes and they gain that property
back, they want to be able to own it.
MR. MANAREL: Is this waterfront property?
MR. MARKEL: No, this is a little bit different.
MRS. SCHWICKER: They want to be able to own it.
MR. MARKEL: This a little bit different.
MRS. SCHWICKER: How is this different?
MR. MARKEL: The Town has said you must do this . They won' t
accept the deed to it.
MR. MANAREL: Who says the Town won't accept the deed?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Was it offered to them?
MR. MANAREL: Where do we have proof that the Town won't accept
the deed?
MR. MARKEL: I have heard of a lot of cases.
MR. 14ANAREL: I know, but we cannot go by hearsay here. Let' s
find out. Who would know? Who in the Town would know if the Town
has refused to accept the deed?
MR. MANAREL: That must be the building division.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 54
MR. MARKEL: That would be the Planning Board.
MR. MANAREL: (Reading from the Planning Board Minutes) "Said road
reserved for possible future dedication to the Town. " It doesn' t say
that the Town requested it. This sounds here as though these people
decided on their own that this is going to be given to the Town at a
later date.
MR. HEUSER: It is still their property.
MR. MANAREL: It is still their property.
MR. MARKEL: It may sound like that, but I have attended many
Planning Board meetings.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Can they make that type of provisions?
MR. MARKEL: That provision is made all of the time, subject
to the adjoining properties getting the same kind of commitment.
When they get them all together, they it is deeded to the Town.
Let' s get Mr. Kelsey.
MR. KELSEY ENTERS THE ROOM.
MR. MANAREL: Our question here Mel is this road. Let me turn
this around so you can see it better. This road according to the
Hales has been for all intensive purposes condemned by the Town for
future use. It has not as yet been deeded over to the Town. They
want it taken off the tax rolls.
MR. MARKEL: Can they build on it?
MR. MELSEY: No.
MR. MARKEL: They can' t do anything specifically with that property?
This is if they want to live up to the agreement they made with the
Planning Board, right? This is when they went for a minor subdivision.
MR. KELSEY: Well, they still own it and it is taxable land.
If it is worthless to them, let it go for taxes.
MR. HEUSER: But it part of their property.
MR. KELSEY: That is their property. I don' t make the laws.
MR. HEUSER: Can you let part of some property go for taxes and
retain the remainder?
MR. KELSEY: No.
MR. HEUSER: You can' t do that?
MR. MARKEL: You would lose all the property if you don' t pay
the taxes.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day Page*5
MR. MANAREL: What I would like to do with this is as long as
long as the girl from the Planning Board went home sick and we cannot
get any information from the office today, is to hold this over until
we make our final determination on all the rest.
MR. MARKEL: I know you are familiar with this Mel, so am I. In
the days of John Wickham, when he was on the Planning Board, they
decided in the event these lands were going to be subdivided in the
future, they wanted another road plus the North Road going east and
west. So what they said to all these people in similar situations,
and I attended several meetings like that. In order for us to
grant you the right to subdivide, we want you to place in escrow this
piece of land which cannot be developed until such time that we get
the adjoining pieces and that road will go in. At that time I think
it will be dedicated. Now, that would not necessarily mean they
would have to put that road in. They have to maintain this road.
MR. MANAREL: This piece of property is odd shaped.
MR. MARKEL: That might benefit from it.
MR. MANAREL: Then when this road goes in this piece of property
will probably double in value.
MR. MARKEL: Possibly.
MR. MANAREL: Then why dhouldn' t they being paying for it now.
They are going to take advantage of that road when it becomes a road.
MR. MARKEL: Yes, but they are still being forced into a situation.
MR. MANAREL: They probably aren' t being forced. There are no
condemnation proceedings going on.
MRS. SCHWICKER: They agreed to it in order to have a subdivision,
didn' t they?
MR. MARKEL: Excuse me.
MRS. SCHWICKER: They agreed to it in order to have a subdivision.
MR. MARKEL: Yes. That was the only way they could get it.
MRS. SCHWICKER: But they knew they would have to pay taxes on `
that property at that time. When they agreed to it. They knew the
conditions ahead of time.
MR. MARKEL: I think we should get a legal opinion on it.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Do you think the Planning Board minutes would
indicate that they were aware of their responsibility for paying taxes
on it?
MR. MANAREL: Let the minutes show that we have tabled this matter
Towjn of Southold 0
Grievance Day - Page 56
for the next time that we meet when we can obtain more background
information as to the agreements reached at that time.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Is there any way we can find out today if
that was in the Planning Board minutes.
MISS CORNINE: You can get a copy of the minutes from the Town
Clerk. All the original minutes are filed in the Town Clerk' s
office.
The Board held an extensive discussion off the record.
MR. MANAREL: After much deliberation and reseach of the Planning
Board minutes and maps, the Board has decided that the property still
belongs to the complainant, Phyllis E. Hale. It has not been deeded
over to the Town nor can we find any restrictions on the use of that
property by Phyllis E. Hale. Therefore, a request for a reduction
has been denied.
MR. HEUSER: Just do rile one favor. Leave that map out for when
Henry Raynor calls, I can talk to him.
NO. 10 - HELEN S. PRICE.
MR. MANAREL: Helen S. Price withdrew her application after
consulation with one of the assessors.
12: 20 P.M. The Board of Assessment Review went to lunch.
1: 10 P.M. The Board of Assessement Review reconvened with a
full Board present.
MR. MANAREL: We are now dealing with No. 11. From now on we
will read the mail into the record.
NO. 11. J. W. MORRIS, 2760 Yennecott Drive, Southold, New York,
The form is incomplete, and therefore, we can not act.
NO. 12. - JOSEPH T. MACARI and HERBERT INGBER, c/o Santemma,
Costigan and Murphy, P.C. , 114 Old Country Road, Mineola, New York
11501. The Form is incomplete; therefore we cannot act. - Litigation.
NO. 13. - joseph t. macari and HERBERT INGBER, c/o Santemma,
Costigan and Murphy, P.C. , 114 Old Country Road, Mineola, New York
11501. The form is incomplete; therefore, we cannot act. Litigation.
Towp of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 57
NO. 14 - JAMES W. B. BENKARD and MARGARET W. S. BENKARD,
(NO #) Private Road, Fishers Island, New York 06390
This application is under litigation; therefore, we cannot act.
NO. 15 - GRENVILLE T. EMMET III and PATRICIA B. EMMET, P. 0. Box
131, Fishers Island, New York 06390 .
This application is under litigation; therefore we cannot act.
NO. 16 - GRENVILLE T. EMMET III and PATRICIA B. EMMET, P . 0. Box
131, Fishers Island, New )York 06390 .
This application is under litigation; therefore we cannot act.
NO. 17A- WESTBURY EQUIPMENT CO. , INC. , 31 Tennyson Avenue,
Westbury, New York 11590 .
This application is under litigation; therefore we cannot act.
NO. 17B- WESTBURY EQUIPMENT CO. , INC. , 31 Tennyson Avenue,
Westbury, New York 11590.
This application is under litigation; therefore we cannot act.
N0. 18A-WESTBURY EQUIPMENT CO. , INC. , 31 Tennyson Avenue,
Westbury, New York 11590.
This application is under litigation; therefore we cannot act.
NO. 18B-WESTBURY EQUIPMENT CO. , INC. , 31 Tennyson Avenue,
Westbury, New York 11590.
This application is under litigation; therefore we cannot act.
NO. 19 - JOESPH FREDERICK GAZZA, Gardiners Lane, Hampton Bays,
New York 11946.
MR. MANAREL: East Marion. This is the land-locked parcel.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page*8
MR. HEUSER: Yes, I don' t understand that. They say land-
locked. No access. He has 2 acres in one place and. . .
MR. MARKEL: Landlocked means no access.
MR. HEUSER: I know that, but why would he buy property?
MR. MANAREL: What we have to check is this. Maybe they had
access, and a storm closed up the acess and now it is landlocked.
Mel, maybe you can help us.
MR. KELSEY ENTERS THE ROOM.
MR. MANAREL: Lanlocked. Dam Pond, East Marion. Now, is that
one of these situations where there was an inlet to a pond and then
it closed up, and now he is landlocked. 'Is that what he is talking
about. I can' t make that quite clear.
MR. KELSEY: Do you have the card?
MR. MANAREL: Here is the card.
MR. HEUSER: The other Gazza is the same thing.
MR. KELSEY: I would imagine this involves some sort of right-
of-way. I would have to check on the map.
MR. HEUSER: He is claiming it on two pieces of property, Mel.
MR. KELSEY: Yes, there are two parcels worth $8, 000. 00 .
Let me check with Jack Sherwood on these.
MR. MANAREL: We will by on No. 19 and No. 20 and come back
to them.
NO. 21 - ARTHUR and ANDREA TILLMAN, RD #1, Box 139B, Mattituck,
New York.
MR. HEUSER: On this one, there is a possibility there ' is
litigation. Do you remember them, Pat?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Yes.
MR. HEUSER: It hasn' t been changed since 1978. He got a reduction
of $600. 00. The reason he got it was upstairs was not completed, but
the assessors walked by and saw curtains in the windows ,and assumed
upstairs was finished.
MRS. SCHWICKER: It was two years ago.
Town of Southold .
Grievance Day - Page 59
MR. HEUSER: Now it is litigation so we cannot act on it.
NO. 19 - GAZZA
MR. MANAREL: The land has gone from farmland to idle land and
therefore has been changed from $250 to $300 which is in keeping with
the regulations of the Town of Southold. The change is denied.
NO. 20 . Joseph Frederick Gazza, Gardiners Lane, Hampton
Bays, New York 11946.
MR. MANAREL: This property is probably like No. 19. It looks
like they have the same complaints as in the other application. The
land went from farm land to idle land so the assessment was changed
which is in keeping with the regulations of the Town of Southold.
The change is denied.
NO. 22 - PARTRICK F. GORMAN, Box 196, RD #1, Depot Lane, Cutchogue,
New York.
MR. MANAREL: His form is not filled out properly and the only
reason he wants a reduction is because it is illegally assessed, which
is incorrect, because it has Temik. The Board cannot act on this one.
MR. MARKEL: We have no jurisdiction over Temik.
NO. 23 - EYLENE H. KING, Box 63, Rocky Point Road, East Marion,
New York 11939.
This application is under litigation; therefore, we cannot act.
MR. KELSEY: Mr;\. Chairman, this is a photographer from Suffolk
Life and he would like to take your picture.
MR. MANAREL: We are at your pleasure. MEL, before you go, I think
these two are in litigation if I am not mistaken.
MRS. SCHWICKER: What numbers are those? 23 and 24?
MR. WEINHEIMER: We are doing No. 23 now, aren't we?
MR. HEUSER: Who is that now?
MISS CORNINE: No. 23 is in litigation, I think.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page 60
MR. MANAREL: That is right, 23 is in litigation. Thank you, sir.
REPORTER: I have to get all the names, now.
NO. 24 - JON HARVEY KLASFELD, 690 Golden Harbour Drive, Boca Raton,
Florida 33432
MR. MANAREL: Overvaluation. It is farmland. The full market
value is $110, 000 . 00. May I have the opinion of the Board.
MR. HEUSER: It can stay where it is now.
MRS. SCHWICKER: I agree.
MR. MANAREL: Any questions?
MR. MARKEL: Does he have to file, is that a rule?
MR. HEUSER: Under the agricultural program, he did not file for
1980-81 so they put the value back.
MISS CORNINE: You have to file for that exemption before -ffay 30th
of each year.
MR. MANAREL: Therefore, the request has been denied.
NO. 25 - DONALD G. KING, Rocky Point Road, East Marion, New York
11939.
This application is under litigation; therefore, we cannot act.
NO. 26 - GEORGE J. W. HUSING, 2 Barteau Avenue, Blue Point, New
York 11715.
MR. MANAREL: This property is located in Laurel. Part farm.
Assessed valuation appearing on assessment roll is $6200 . I don' t have
a card for this one. This form is not filled out correctly; therefore,
the Board cannot act.
NO. 27 - FRANK, LEONARD L. & OTHERS, 358B Mid-Island Shopping Plaza,
Hicksville, New York 11802
MR. MANAREL: The claim here is inequality. The full market
value of the property is $4,000. 00. He used the State equalization
rate of 11.19% and he thinks his property' s assessment should be re-
duced to $400.
Town of Southold 0
Grievance Day - Page 61
MR. HEUSER: May I interject?
MR. MANAREL: Please do.
MR. HEUSER: 1965 was the last time he was assessed. That was
for $1200 and it stayed that way ever since.
MR. MARKEL: How much property?
MR. HEUSER: 1/3 of an acre to answer your question, Sam.
MR. MANAREL: See what we are coming up against is that every
year they change this equalization rate. They change the full value
and ask for a reduction.
MR. HEUSER: The deed was made out in 1969 for $4,000 .00.
The total land value was never changed.
MR. MANAREL: He has 140 feet on the bay, and 140 feet on the
road, and the proerty is 140 feet deep.
MRS. SCHWICKER: This is wetlands.
MR. MANAREL: property is within Tidal Wetlands pursuant to action
of the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)
Land use regulations on Tidal Wetlands, pursuant to Environmental
Conservation Law restrict use and development of proerty and reduce
market value.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Buyer beware.
MR. MARKEL: He claims it is wetlands.
MR. MANAREL: The assessed valuation has not changed since 1965.
MR. HEUSER: You see what happened in 1965 that new wetlands thing
went in.
MRS. SCHWICKER: No change.
MR. WEINHEIMER: No change.
MR. MANAREL: Sam, you feel the same way?
MR. HEUSER: No change.
MR. MARKEL: I don' t think I can make a decision on that one
without more information.
MR. HEUSER: Are any of the assessors there?
MR. MARKEL: This fellow says it is wetlands. Have the assessors
in the past. . . .
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page b2
MR. WEINHEIMER: Where is the property located?
MR. HEUSER: Bay Shore Road in Greenport.
MRS. SCHWICKER: We don't rule on wetlands.
MR. 14ARKEL: Then he doesn' t have a valid complaint.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Buyer beware.
MR. HEUSER: To quote Mabel Lytle.
MRS. SCHWICKER: That' s right. wetlands we cannot do anything
about the wetlands. We' ve been going through this for 5 years.
MR. MARKEL: Well, I am new so I have to learn.
MR. HEUSER: That' s right. You are entitled.
MR. MANAREL: Mel, we have a question here. This person claims
that his property in part is assessed illegally because it comes under
the heading of New York State Environmental Conservation. The law
restricts use and development of property and it reduces market value.
MR. MARKEL: In your opinion, is that a buildable lot?
MR. KELSEY: I would have to go back and look on the maps .
MR. MARKEL: Well, it is a third of an acre. ; 100 feet on the
waterfrontl; 100 feet on the road; and 145 feet deep.
MR. KELSEY: Well, it is probably a buildable lot, but in that
area, there is a lot of clay and you cannot use it for drainage pur-
poses, cesspools. Am I correct in that? There are a couple of other
ones like that: Mid-Island Shopping Center and Greenport Shores has
the same problem down there.
MR. HEUSER: Greenport Shores is mentioned here.
MR. KELSEY: Greenport Shores is adjacent to this on the west.
I think you have a grievance form from Greenport Shores also. I am
going to have Jack Sherwood explain it to you because he drew the map.
Let me go and get him.
MR. MANAREL: Fine, go and get him.
MR. MARKEL: I know these areas pretty well. Let' s go to No. 2.8
while we are waiting for Jack Sherwood.
NO. 28 - MID-ISLAND SHOPPING PLAZA CO. , 358B Mid-Island Shopping
Plaza, Hicksville , New York 11802
MR. MANAREL: They are claiming inequality. They would like. . .
Town of Southold • •
Grievance Day - Page 63
Theysay the full market value of their property is $54 ,000 .00 using
the State Equalization Rate of 11.19%, Complainant believes the
assessment should be reduced to $550. 00 .
MR. HEUSER: They have been paying or been assessed for $9600
since 1960. '
MR. MANAREL: They also claim it is illegally assessed. Property
is within the Tidal Wetlands pursuant to action of the New York State
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) . Land use regulations
of Tidal Wetlands,etc.
MR. SHERWOOD: Please, you honor, I didn' t do it. I plead for
mercy.
MR. HEUSER: All right.
MR. MANAREL: Do you know everybody here, Jack?
MR. SHERWOOD: Yes.
MR. MANAREL: Okay, fine.
NO. 27 - FRANK, LEONARD & OTHERS, contd.
MR. MANAREL: We have been requested by this Complainant and the
Mid-Island Shopping Plaza Co. , to reduce the market value $4, 000 and
the complainant believes the assessment should be reduced to $400 .
Part of the claim is based on the claim that they think it is illegally
assessed to' begin with due to the Tidal Wetlands.
MR. SHERWOOD: I will give you the background of this whole thing.
This whole property was orignally known as the "clay banks" . When
they bought, I don' t know if they knew there was clay under there or
not, but there is 30 to 40 feet of clay there. They bought this in
the boom, right after the war. They built maybe 6 or 7 little houses
and could not get cesspools in. They used to run the sewage out into
the bay. That is trivia, but a fact. Then maybe they built another
4 or 5 houses along the bay. Now those cesspools will not drain at
all. It is like being in an iron pit. So they have to have them
pumped out about every 3 weeks. The rest of the land they have, they
have just about abandoned. They bought this in the early 1950 ' s .
Some of this land is still laid out in lots and the rest of it. . . . .
Now. they were going to put in their own sewer plant in there. They
were going to sewer this particular development. It would have cost
them a lot of money and they would have had to form a sewer district.
One thing led to another, so they never did anything. They just really
walked away and left it and haven' t done a thing with it since. My
own personal opinion is they are using it as a tax write off as far
as their business is concerned.
MR. MARKEL: Jack, they didn ' t buy this land after the wetlands
Towp of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 64
act? They bought it before?
MR. SHERWOOD: They bought it 30 years ago. Now, DEC comes into
the act. Tidal Wetlands, Environmental Conservation and all that.
They grab hold to that as an excuse for saying for it not being
buildable. It hasn' t been buildable since they bought it. It is not
any recent thing.
MR. MARKEL: Okay.
MR. KELSEY: The last time we were down there was 1977.
MR. SHERWOOD: Now, they have what they feel is a valid excuse,
because DEC says you cannot build on it. Now DEC is not worried
about the sewage disposal. They only worry that part of it is wetlands.
MR. HEUSER: Is clay wetlands?
MR. SHERWOOD: No. That is where the tide rises and fall.
Spartina and all.
MR. HEUSER: So you are talking about two different governmental
agencies.
MR. SHERWOOD: The Health Department would not let them build
down there because they cannot dispose of the sewage .
MR. MARKEL: They would not let them build before the wetlands?
MR. SHERWOOD: No. Whether they knew that was all clay when they
bought it, I can presume that they did.
MR MARKEL: That was ridiculous.
MR. SHERWOOD: Sure it was. You can go down there to walk on the
beach and it is so slippery you cannot stand up. I don' t know what
you want to do about it. In all probability even if they could build
on it because of the clay, some of it the DEC would not let them build
on.
MR. MANAREL: Has that been taken into consideration?
MR. HEUSER: It hasn' t been touched since 1965.
MR. SHERWOOD: That is a minimum. What we have on those lots.
See, some of this is still in lots. 5o foot lots. We have a minimal
assessment on them. We are bending over backwards for them and they
are now complaining about the other two described pieces which are
partly wetlands and partly low. Some maybe could be developed.
MR. HEUSER: 14 . 65. Here it is. It is wetlands out to the
west of it. As long as they bought them under the same category.
He has not been increased since 1960.
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 65
MR. MANAREL: That is No. 28.
MR. HEUSER: That is the preceding one.
MR. MANAREL: They are the same owners. Any other questions
we would like to ask these gentlemen? Thanks very much.
MR. KELSEY: I told you. He' s a walking atlas.
MR. MANAREL: No. 27 and No. 28 are the sante thing. They
are apparently from the same owners. But we are dealing with
them separately.
NO. 27. LEONARD L. FRANK & others.
MR. MANAREL: What is the pleasure of the Board on this?
MR. MARKEL: Deny.
MR. HEUSER: Deny.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Deny.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Deny.
MR. MANAREL: No. 27 shall be denied since the property has not
been reassessed since 1965.
NO. 28 - MID-ISLAND SHOPPING PLAZA CO.
MR. MARKEL: Deny.
MR. MANAREL: The property has not been reassessed since 1960.
The same conditions exist as previously expressed in application No.
27. It is the veiw of the Board that this shall also be denied.
NO. 29 - GREENPORT SHORES, INC. , 358B Mid-Island Shopping
Plaza, Hicksville, New York 11802.
MRS. SCHWICKER: When was that assessed last?
MR. MANAREL: May, 1960. Is this part of the same.
MR. HEUSER: They are involved in it.
MR. MARKEL: Same deal.
Tower of Southold • •
Grievance Day - Page 66
MR. MANAREL: Their reasons are exactly the same. They want to
go from $7,500. 00 to $750. 00 . That is $7, 500.00 for full market
value, and they want to be assessed at $750.00 . They are using the
DEC umbrella.
MR. HEUSER: Now, Sam, now that you are conversant with this .
Is this Greenport Shores property adjacent to the rest of this?
MR. MARKEL: Yes, that's right.
MR. MANAREL: It is all part of the same thing. Franklin L.
Frank is making the request again under a different name. Therefore
am I right in assuming that the Board denies this one also for the
same reasons?
MR. HEUSER: Right.
MR. MARKEL: Yes.
NO. 31
NO. 30 - LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY, 250 Old Country Road,
Mineola, New York 11501.
MR. MANAREL: They are using a wrong figure. They are using
11. 70%. Exclusive of land. They purchased the property for
$577,516. 00. There is no mortgage apparently on the property.
They say the full market value is $362, 638. 00. Using the State
equalization rate which seems to vary slightly on every application
the complainant believes the assessment should be reduced to
$42, 429 (exclusive of land) and $45,629 (Including Land) .
MR. HEUSER: May I interject, Sam. I think I can be helpful on
this particular matter.
MR. MANAREL: I 'm confused on this one.
MR. HEUSER: They are very complicated by the way.
MR. MARKEL: In 1966 theis property was rezones to business
property.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Rezoned for what?
MR. MARKEL: Business property. Actually in 1967 it went down
$3,400. 00. In 1976 which was 11 years later it went up to $49,500
and then in 1978 it went to $64, 500 because of improvements .
MR. HEUSER: What went up the building or the property?
MR. MARKEL: Wait a minute. The land actually went down. The
building went up which is understandable.
MR. HEUSER: Because of Improvements?
Town of Southold 1 •
Grievance Day - Pago 67
MR. HEUSER: Where is that on the north road in Peconic, Sam?
MR. MARKEL: On middle road?
A DISCUSSION OF THE BOARD WAS HELD OFF THE RECORD.
MR. MARKEL: The land is $48, 000.00. The improvements are
$3200. There are no pictures. We don' t know the square footage or
anything else.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Doesn' t the card show how they compute it?
MR. MARKEL: They do, but they don't. They don' t tell you the
square footage there.
MR. MANAREL: I have a good suggestion. It that card shows they
are being assessed at how much?
MR. MARKEL: On the land only they are being assessed at $3200 .
MR. MANAREL: Theyare asking to be assessed at $42, 429 and I
think they ought to grant it.
MR. MARKEL: I don' t think there is any objection.
MR. HEUSER: This is the building?
MR. MANAREL: I was just figuring their land.
MR. HEUSER: Their building is $61 ,300 .
MR. WEINHEIMER: This is about $3200.
MR. MARKEL: We have no figures on the square footage for the
building.
MR. HEUSER: What about the improvements?
MR. WEINHEIMER: They want to reduce this to what? Down to
$42, 429.
MR. HEUSER: I 'm not trying to drag this out, but they were
raised $15,000 this year. You and I don' t know why?
MR. WEINHEIMER: In 1978 theyv/were reassessed.
MR. MARKEL: What is the ratio for the rate in percentages?
MR. HEUSER: No, it went from $50, 000 to $65,000 .
MR. WEINHEIMER: About 15% based on a $1, 900 alteration.
That is 50%.
MR. MANAREL: They are coming in with another .card in a minute
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Pa9#68
if you want to hold that and ask them about it. We wil hold No. 30.
We will just put everything on hold.
THE BOARD ADJOURNED AT 3: 50 P.M. FOR DINNER.
7:07 P.M. Mr. Manarel, the Chairman called the meeting to order
and the full Board was present.
MR. KELSEY: I don' t understand why LILCO filed a grievance,
because they tell us what they are going to be assessed. We do not
interefere with their figures. I don' t know what to tell you. I
will take that up with Tom Ryan. This is the first time this has
ever happened and I have been on the Board since 1973.
MR. HEUSER: I never saw one before.
MR. KELSEY: They are grieving about their own figures. They
give us the breakdown of the figures. We spread the assessment over
all of the areas. The larger areas get more and the smaller areas
less.
MR. MANAREL: Then we could say in reality that this Board cannot
act on this application, because as we understand it Long Island
Lighting Company sets it own assessment rate. Therefore,_ we feel
they have grieved on their own figures. We suggest that they use
a different vehicle to satisfy their own requests.
MR. MARKEL: Maybe they have to go through this . Maybe they
made an error and they have to go through this.
MR. KELSEY: I would check with Tom Ryan just to make sure.
As I say I have never seen one before.
MR. HEUSER: I have never seen one before either. I never knew
that condition existed.
MR. MANAREL: I suggest we break for dinner, come this evening,
and in the meantime it will give me an opportunity to check with
Tom Ryan and find out what the story is and I will report back this
afternoon.
NO. 63 - ST. PETER'S LUTHERAN CHURCH, 68465 Main Road,
Greenport, New York 11944; George C. Stankevich, Esq. , representing
the church. Let the record show that Mr. Stankevich has brought
with him a Court Reporter who sits next to him in the audience.
MR. MANAREL: That form is not filled out.
Town of Southold • •
Grievance Day - Page 69
MR. HEUSER: Is there a reason down there?
MISS CORNINE: What about all this over here? They don' t have
to do this?
MR. MANAREL: Apparently not if they consider this. That is
right. It is not a question of assessment. It is a question of
an exempt property.
MR. HEUSER: Mr. Chairman, May I at this point say I must remove
myself from the Board since I am a member of Pastor Coleman' s church.
MR. MANAREL: Okay, fine. You have signed the withdrawal which
will be kept with the records.
MR. HEUSER: Yes, I have signed it-
MR. MANAREL: Any other questions?
GEORGE C. STANKEVICH: Good evening, I am George Stankevich.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Would you take an oath for me, please?
MR. STANKEVICH: No, I 'm an attorney, I am just speaking.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Anyone who submits information must be sworn
in.
MR. STANKEVICH: I know that.
MR. MANAREL: Would you mind taking the oath?
MR. STANKEVICH: Because I am an attorney, and the information is
going to be submitted by the Pastor of my document. I am not a witness .
I just want to introduce myself. I am the attorney for St. Peter' s
Lutheran Church. What we would like to do is just lay out briefly our
position and then I would ask Pastor Coleman to supply the evidence.
And we have documents we will have marked in evidence so you can under-
stand the basis for the application. The first application will deal
with parcel 1000-0045-0002-0010. 1. This is vacant land at the northeast
corner of Chapel Lane and Main Road, Southold, New York. Application
was filed to obtain an exemption and continue the existing exemption on
that property. It was rejected by the Assessors and grievance was filed
today, and I wish to speak to that point. The land that we know is owned
by St. Peter' s Lutheran Church, and it is acquired and being held for
the purpose of constructing ,
MR. MANAREL: I 'm going to interrupt you at this point. If you
are going to proceed along that line, we want to swear you in.
MRS. SCHWICKER: You have to take this oath.
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Page 70
MR. MANAREL: Otherwise, we will not listen to you.
MRS. SCHWICKER: You are giving information here.
MR. STANKEVICH: No, this is an opening statement.
MR. MANAREL; If you would not mind, please. We have had
attorneys here before.
MR. STANKEVICH: Fine. (Mr. Stankevich raised his right hand. )
MRS. SCHWICKER: Do you solemnly swear that the information
you give herein will be given accurately and truthfully to the best
of your ability.
MR. STANKEVICH: I do.
MR. MANAREL: Thank you.
MR. STANEVICH: That all applies to what I have said already.
The land was acquired for the purpose and is being held for the purpose
of building San Simeon on it. That is to be a rest home complex for
the elderly. The present owners of that land is St. Peter' s Lutheran
Church, a Religious Corporation. The ultimate developer and owner
of that land, when it is developed, will be a non-profit corporation
The question I think that has arisen in this case arises out of lack
of information and the limited nature of the legal opinion that was
given to the Assessors regarding the treatment of the particular par- -
cel of property. What I am referring to is an opinion that was rendered
by the Town Attorney June 22, 1979, which I will ask to be marked in
evidence as our Exhibit 1. A copy of which will be furnished to you.
(The copy of the letter was marked as Exhibit A by the Court Stenographer. )
And the opinion was addressed to Mr. Kelsey by the Town Attorney con-
cerning various exempt parcels owned by religious corporations. In the
opinion the Town Attorney indicates that the basic section of the
New York State Real Property Tax Law covering situations like this is
Section 421, and he is correct in stating that that section provides
that if land and used by a religious corporation for that purpose it is
exempt. However, in his opinion he states at page 3 "As to the fourth
parcel, namely the 39.5 acre parcel at the corner of Chapel Lane and
Route 25 owned by St. Peter' s Lutheran Church, since the property is
vacant and is not in fact being used for a senior citizen housing
facility, I do not believe that it qualifies at this time for an exemp-
tion. " In that regard he is totally in error. The cause of his error
is that he did not go on and cite to Mr. Kelsey, Section 421, subdivi-
sion 3. Because that section says as follows: "Such real property from
which no revenue is derived shall be exempt though not in actual use
therefor by reason of the absence of suitable buildings or improvements
thereon if, (a) the construction of such buildings or improvements is
in progress or is in good faith contemplated by such corporation or
association. " Then there is a subdivision (b) that doesn't apply. So
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Pag#71
what the Town Attorney did not tell the Assessor is that even though
the property is vacant if it is held by a- religious corporation or
non-profit corporation and that corporation is in the progress or in
good faith contemplates such use, then it can still remain exempt.
The second sentence of page 3 of the Town Attorney is also in error.
He states, "In addition, to the best of my knowledge, there is no
proof that the St. Peter' s Lutheran Church under its charter is per-
mitted to engage in activities other than religious activities. " I
think he is reaching rather far into a field he knows nothing about.
Because he does not know anything about the charter of St. Peter' s
Lutheran Church and if he did he would not have made this statement.
I suggest. . .why is he reaching so far, we will get to that later.
But the fact is we have here the By-laws and Constitution and it does
provide for that church as part of its charge take care of the elderly,
succor to the needs of the community. So, there is no merit to that
type of statement. At this time I would like to call Pastor Coleman as
a witness, and have him sworn so he can give testimony to you as to
the contemplated use of that property and exactly what is in progress .
If anything, because you have a right to know that. You should know
that. Pastor Coleman.
MR. MANAREL: You can stand anywhere you want.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Do you solemnly swear that the information that
you give herein will be given accurately and truthfully to the best of
your ability.
PASTOR WILLIAM A COLEMAN: Yes, I do.
MR. STANKEVICH: Now, Pastor Coleman, could you tell the Board
your relationship to St. Peter' s Lutheran Church.
PASTOR COLEMAN: I am the Pastor of the parish and the spiritual
and papal head of the parish.
MR. STANKEVICH: In that capacity are you familiar with the use to
which the subject land is now put and the intended use?
MR. COLEMAN: Yes.
MR. STANKEVICH: And could you tell us what San Simeon is?
PASTOR COLEMAN: A number of years ago the parish received a
bequest from an individual in the community who was not a member of the
parish, and at that time the congregation had a big decision to make,
to use the money it received for its own personal interest or to try to
use that seed money that would benefit the larger community. And a
study committee was appointed to see what the needs of the community
and the church were and in talking to local pastors, we found that one
of the problems in the community is that there was a lack of senior citi-
zen housing in the community that was made up of a large number of re-
tired people. It was the decision of the congregation really to allocate
this money to purchase property adjacent to the church to develope a
senior citizen housing complex for the residents of Southold Town. This
Town of Southold •
Grievance Day - Pag�72
was begun in 1975 and upon celebrating a Eucharist at the Eastern
Suffolk Nursing Home two years later in 1977, Mr. Frank Salamone, the
owner of that facility said to me, knowing what your project is , would
you like to buy this facility? After having gone through zone changes
and through numerous Planning Board sessions and expending architectual
fees to the amount of $40, 000.00 on the property, we put he housing on
the back burner temporarily to expend all of our efforts to obtain the
Eastern Suffolk Nursing Home. Seeing this would be a very unique pro-
ject under not-for-profit auspices of four levels of care for the
elderly that I think is unique in New York State. We would have con-
tiguous and under one sponsor a skilled nursing facility, a health
related facility an adult home and cottage living units. As you I
think are aware after two and a half years of dealing with state
officials and with County officials, we obtained the Eastern Suffolk
Nursing Home and opened it as San Simeon by the Sound, phase 3 and
4 on the lst. of September. So I think we have demonstrat6d to the
community our sincere intention to follow the mandate of the parish
to develope levels of care for the elderly in our community.
MR. STANKEVICH: Just to clarify that. When ;did the. . .possibly
what year did the church acquire the property?
PASTOR COLEMAN: 1975.
MR. STANKEVICH: And the decision was made prior at that time to
devote the property to San Simeon senior care and housing? Then zoning
applications were made to the Town?
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes.
MR. STANKEVICH: How long did they take? Approximately in years.
PASTOR COLEMAN: A year and a half.
MR. STANKEVICH: Approvals were obtained from the Town of Southold?
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes.
MR. STANKEVICH: And architectual services were retained?
PASTOR COLEMAN: Were retained and are still being retained. I
think the last bill that we paid the architect was just about a month
and a half ago.
MR. STANKEVICH: And as the project developed the opportunity
occurred to also acquire the existing nursing home to the north?
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes.
ment?
MR. STANKEVICH: And it has been acquired under a lease arrange-
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes, it has.
y Town of Southold
Grievance bay - Pagel#
MR. STANKEVICH: And the church is at the present time continuing
with the planning and investigating financing for the financing of the
construction stage of the San Simeon?
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes.
MR. STANKEVICH: And I hand you these documents. Are they a list
of the expenditures with cancelled checks underneath for most of them
that the church has expended showing the progress and showing also its
contemplated use? This is not merely a figment of someone's imagination
but they put big bucks into a development and it is on going. Can you
read the expenses and the dates? Start at the top.
PASTOR COLEMAN: 1974: 9/16/74 Rod Van Tuyl, zone change $150 . 00;
9/18/74 Irving Price, zone change; 10/15/74 Austin Burt, back and drain-
age $50. 00; 11/7/74 Agway, seed; Agway 12/3/74 seed; 12/24/74 Briarcliffe
Landscaping - seeding; 1/16/75 Roderick Van Tuyl, survey; 8/18/75 -soil
mechanic drilling; drilling of bore holes; 9/15/75 Koch Johnson Associa-
tion, Associates, Phase A-zoning board; 10/28/75 - There is a dollar
figure to all of these $14, 280 . 25 Koch Johnston - phase A Zone Board. ;
11/20/75 Roderick Van Tuyl - area calculation $48.00; 11/25/74 Koch
Johnston Associates, phase A Zone Board; 12/15/75 Roderick Van Tuyl
revision of map $40 . 00; 12/15-31/75 Koch Johnston Associates, phase A
Zone Board $5, 184. 00 ; 2/25/76 Koch Johnston - phase A Zoning Board
$3,675 .50; 3/4/76 variance from Town $30 .00; 11/30/ Koch Johnston -
phase A. Zoning Board $5,277. 03; 5/19/77 Ed's Landscaping - seeding
$500; 4/15/80 Koch Johnston -plan $278.50.
MR. STANKEVICH: Now I would like this marked as a unit. We will
provide you with a copy.
MR. MANAREL: I think that is unnecessary. You can do as you like,
but. . .
MR. STANKEVICH: I don't think it is. With litigation and suits I
want to make sure these documents have been presented to you. . . .
MR. MANAREL: Fine.
MR. STANKEVICH: Not that your attorney probably won't want to
look at them.
MR. MANAREL: As you wish. It is perfectly all right with us .
(The list of bills that Pastor Coleman read was marked as an Exhibit
by the Court Stenographer) .
STENOGRAPHER: Where do you want me to stamp this?
MR. STANKEVICH: Just stamp it right on the back. Now Pastor I
have handed you a document. What is that document?
PASTOR COLEMAN: It is the constitution and by-laws of the parish.
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page*
MR. STANKEVICH: Photocopy of one page of it?
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes, an original document.
MR. STANKEVICH: Could you read the part that says Section 7?
PASTOR COLEMAN: This addresses itself to the purpose of the
congregation. Under Section 7 - Social Ministry: The purpose of the
social ministry committee shall be to extend christian compassion and
helpfulness to the ill, the aged, the orphan, the underprivileged,
the imprisoned, in general to persons of all ages in need of aid in
body or soul. It shall strive to enlist in these efforts as many
possible of the individual members and organizations of the congregation.
This committee shall further have a duty to study social conditions ,
primarily in the local community in order to bring the cleansing and
giving light of christian love to bear upon critical problems to
christian discussion of facts and issues.
MR. STANKEVICH: Now when that constitution says "that the purpose
of the committee shall be to extend christian compassion and helpful-
ness to persons of all ages in need of aid in body and soul, does that
include providing nursing home care and the like.
PASTOR COLEMAN: I think if you check back in the history of all
the nursing homes in this country you will find that began by christian
institutions sponsoring them. And many christian nursing homes today
once began as orphanages. I would dare say the orphans of our times
are not those under the age of two, but those over the age of 80 .
MR. STANKEVICH: And is it sir correct to state that St. Peter's
Lutheran Church at this time is in the progress and in fact in good
faith contemplating the completion of San Simeon?
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes.
MR. STANKEVICH: An the ultimate developer of San Simeon will be
a not-for-profit corporation?
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes.
MR. MANAREL: Can you give us an approximate date when you expect
to get that completed?
PASTOR COLEMAN: NO.
MR. STANKEVICH: Why? You should ask why, and I think you are
entitled to an answer. The reason simply is it took over a year and a
half to get it through your own Planning Board. And there are multi-
levels of approval to be obtained for such type of institution. You
have got not only to get it through the Planning Board, you have got
to get it through County authorities, State authorities if you give
such care. After you get all of that done you have got to get it
through your bank. You cannot really go to the bank until put in
pieces. Just look back in our mere history in the last six months
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Page*
what has happened in lending. You can never tell.
MR. MANAREL: Well, I asked the question because I have had some-
thing to do with building state buildings and regardless of how long
it takes you do have a projected date you are shooting at. I was just
wondering if that is what you had.
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes.
MR. STANKEVICH: I think they have already over-extended their
projected date. They will move ahead as fast as they possibly can
under the complexities, and it is a complex project. May I ask you
sir how many units will ultimately go there.
PASTOR COLEMAN: 150 cottage units; and a domiciliary area of
the adult home of 84 .
MR. STANKEVICH: How does that compare in size with anything like
it that exists on Long Island?
PASTOR COLEMAN: There is nothing like it on Long Island.
MR. STANKEVICH: So?
PASTOR COLEMAN: One of the problems we have because this is
really the first of its kind of complex in New York State that we know
where four levels of care are contiguous to one another in one complex.
We are really blazing a trail. But I think St. Peter' s Church shows
its good intention not only in the purchase of the property, but also
what it has been able to do in terms of obtaining the nursing home,
and the nursing home was obtained for the primary purpose of offering
people who come to the cottages that security to know when they are
no longer able to take care of themselves that we have another facility
to which they can go.
MR. STANKEVICH: Now, I think I should in good faith draw to your
attention that when the Town Attorney wrote this letter presented as
Exhibit 1 on June 22 , 1979, it was sent naturally to the Assessors and
a copy to the Supervisor. And the Supervisor at that time, our be-
loved Albert Martocchia, who is no longer with us , but he was an Assessor
and he knew about such things. And he made the notation in the lower
right hand corner "I have read this , but I don' t agree. I have another
question. Obviously that year nothing was done. This year something
was done. The exemption was denied. And we think wrongfully because of
lack of information. To cap our presentation there are many many cases
on this. You do not have to take my word, you should not. You should
ask for assistance.
MR. MANAREL: You can be sure of that.
MR. STANKEVICH: But just to read some of the synpses of these
cases. Cases that are contained in McKinneys. The first one is .9 of
Section 421. "Vacant lots acquired by a missionary board for the pur-
pose of erecting thereon purely for missionary purposes, which erection
Town of Southold
Grievance Day - Pagett
has been temporarily delayed but which is in good faith contemplated
and from which no income has been derived by the realtor, meaning the
owner, are exempt from taxation Board of Foreign Missions v. Board
of Assessors 244 NY 2d. 42 (1926) .
MR. WEINHEIMER: Do you have a page on that?
MR. STANKEVICH: Page 126 of McKinneys. Thereafter there are at
least 20 cases given this and the Courts rule continually up. You as
assessors, or you as members of the Board of Review have got to look
at all of this, and make a judgment. If it was just hot air oh, we
are going to do something, we have been tlaking like this for 20 years,
and haven' t spent a nickel on it, that is one thing. But here you have
got proof positive that large sums of money have been paid for the on
going planning process, really large sums of money by anybody' s stan-
dards. Over $50, 000 . 00. And certainly a very large commitment in
acquiring the nursing home as the keystone for the entire project. It
is a million dollar obligation. I do not think any reasonable person and
I don' t think you will quibble that there is real progress here and in
fact there is good intent. We leave it in your hands.
PASTOR COLEMAN: I would just like to say too, it shows St. Peter' s
good faith, first of all St. Peter' s church, I think you should know
this, does not engage in any fund raising activity from the community
for the church. It does not rent its facilities, it does not run chicken
barbecues, it does not run clambakes, it does not run yard sales or
expect the community to pay for the support of the church. It runs a
German Festival, it runs an Octoberfest, Harvest Festival and every
penny from every German Festival and every Harvest Festival has been
deferred to the project that will benefit the whole community.
MR. STANKEVICH: That is San Simeon?
PASTOR COLEMAN: That' s right. I have been keeping track over
the last number of years on other churches that rent their facilities
and list in their annual reports,, which I get a copy of, as rent. I
sit on the hospital board and am concerned about the hospital appealing
to the Town for tax relief on a business they operate for revenue pro-
ducing purposes. They have an Opportunity Shop which is a store, and
have received tax relief for that part of the business. We have never
quibbled about paying taxes on St. Peter's garage. Can you tell me if
there is a difference between that and the Opportunity Shop? I didn' t
force the lease situation on the nursing home. We bought the lease
hold interest. We are paying something like $55,000 dollars a year in
taxes to take care of 22 Lutherans and the rest of the people from
each and every parish in this community. 150 all together.
MR. STANKEVICH: What Pastor is saying is that transaction on the
nursing home could be structured in a fashion where this Town would not
get $55 ,000. 00 in taxes.
PASTOR COLEMAN: And with the way we have been treated I am now
going to pursue that.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Grievance Day - Page 77
MR. MARKEL: Would you give me an example of another church in
Town where the Pastor would get copies of all these reports.
MR. STANKEVICH: I think I would ask him not to get involved in
other church' s business. If you just look around you will find out.
I think. Let me leave it at this. I think you ought to think about
how did it come about and why? It sticks out like a sore thumb. I
don' t mind saying so because I know it was built on quicksand. It
could not be more obvious than the books and the cases and proof.
But it gives you some type of insight into what motivates certain
people, personalities, politics. Whatever it is. Al Martocchia
was a good supervisor.
PASTOR COLEMAN: Fair man.
MR. STAN=- CH: He knew he could not go along and advised
against it. Dig into the background as to why somebody would do
something so blatant. I think you would get a very interesting educa-
tion. We rest.
MR. MANAREL: Are there any questions?
MR. MARKEL: I would just like to point out although Al Mar-
tocchia was a good supervisor and fair man and everything else
I don't think you can prejudge Billy Pell in this case.
MR. STANKEVICH: Oh no.
MR. MARKEL: As being a part of this situation.
MR. STANKEVICH: No.
PASTOR COLEMAN: Not at all.
MR. STANKEVICH: He has not been involved in any way, sense or
form.
MR. MANAREL: May, I interrupt here. May I say that we leave the
personalities out. The politics out. I think we are sitting here as
a Board of Assessment Review to be of help to anyone in the community.
You presented your case. I want to know if there is anyone on the
Board who has any further questions of the group. If not, we will take
everything you said. We have it on the machine here.
MR. WEINHEIMER: I have a question. What is the financial require-
ment for people to gain admission to the retirment community.
PASTOR COLEMAN: We haven' t gotten that far yet..
MR. WEINHEIMER: Will there be a financial requirement?
PASTOR COLEMAN: Yes there will be. We ' re talking about something
that is structured in other places called a "life tenancy" .
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD j
Grievance Day - Page4
off into a non-profit corporation.
PASTOR COLEMAN: The corporation that runs the nursing home is
non-profit. What we actually did was to buy Mr. Salamone' s right-
his lease hold interest. In that contract there is the opportunity
to buy at any time at a certain price depending upon the year. At
the end of the lease hold to buy at a fixed price.
MR. MANAREL: What we are saying in effect is that the nursing
home is owned by an individual or corporation.
PASTOR COLEMAN: It is owned by , a not-for-profit corporation.
MR. STANKEVICH: The land is still owned by an individual. It
is not tax exempt.
MR. MANAREL; Correct.
PASTOR COLEMAN: But we pay the taxes and we are assessed for that
by our Landlord every month. He does not pay that.
MR. MANAREL: I would guess that.
MR. STANKEVICH: I think one other item we should have marked as
Exhibit 3 would be these plans for San Simeon by the Sound.
PASTOR COLEMAN: They are on file in the Building Inspector' s
office.
MR. MANAREL: We can find them.
MR. STANKEVICH: Again, it doesn' t weigh very much.
PASTOR COLEMAN: The Planning Board' s approval for site plan.
MR. STANKEVICH: Can you mark that?
MR. MARKEL: What is the title on that, George?
MR. STANKEVICH: "Site Plan Retirement Complex, San Simeon by the
Sound, a Retirement Community drawn by Koch Johnston Associates, Inc.
interior design and Planning. " Okay?
MR. MANAREL: Anything else? Pat?
MRS. SCHWICKER: No.
MR. MANAREL: Thank you very much for your presentation. We will
try to study the case as best we can, know how, render a decision and
let you know in approximately one month.
MR. STANKEVICH: We have another one, but I would just like to take
a break and make one phone call. You can take somebody else. I will
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Grievance Day - Pageq*l
MR. MARKEL: Yes, there are five all together.
MRS. SCHWICKER: We have a problem.
MR. MANAREL: What is the problem?
MR. HEUSER: Are you representing someone, Bill?
MR. SCHRIEVER: Yes, I am representing. . . .
MR. HEUSER: Clifford Van Cleef.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I am representing four people besides myself.
There are five applications there. You will have 4 more when he gets
in there.
MRS. SCHWICKER: He still has a problem. He has to fill in
the full market value and he has to state what he wants it reduced
to.
MR. MANAREL: Why don' t you swear Mr. Van Cleef in, then we can. .
The form is not filled out correctly. If you would like to come up.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I'm Bill Schriever, . I 'm representing Van Cleef.
MR. MANAREL: Mr. Schriever, would you step over here and be
sworn in, please.
NO. 66 - MR. AND MRS. CLIFFORD J. VAN CLEEF, Main Road, Box 111,
Orient, New York 11957. Applicant believes the assessment should
be reduced to $60 . 00. He has no market value filled in. Under Part
III of the form the applicant has checked that the paroperty is
specialized and complainant is prepared to submit detailed facts con-
cerning the property.
MRS. SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH TO WILLIAM SCHRIEVER.
MR. MARKEL: I don ' t think the recorder is on.
MR. MANAREL: Yes, it is. I had Pat swear Mr. Schriever in.
The form is not completeley filled out and it has to be filled out
before we can act on it.
MR. SCHRIEVER: What for-?-
MR. MANAREL: What for? Because we are obliged by the State
Tax Commission that if a form is not properly filled out, we may
not act on it.
MRS. SCHRIEVER: I 'm sorry if it isn't. I want to correct it.
MR. MANAREL: That is what we are trying to get straightened- lout.
You have so many forms we are trying. . .
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
t Grievance Day - PageR
MR. SCHRIEVER: I thought I did it correctly.
MR. MARKEL: We have to check them all , Sam?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Do you want to explain to him what has to be
done? Mr. Schriever, would you come here for a moment?
MR. SCHRIEVER: Yeah.
MRS. SCHWICKER: What we need here is the full market value.
This is what it is assessed for.
MR. SCHRIEVER: Right.
MRS. SCHWICKER: They want the amount you wanted reduced. You
want it reduced from $600? This is on the assessed valuation?
MR. SCHRIEVER: That is correct.
MRS. SCHWICKER: The property has no market value? The property
has no value on the open market?
MR. SCHRIEVER: There is no market for the value. That is why
I am here.
MRS. SCHWICKER: What is the purchase price of the Property?
MR. SCHRIEVER: It wasn' t purchased.
MRS. SCHWICKER: What is it insured for?
MR. SCHRIEVER: It' s not insured. It ' s just wetlands. It has
no market.
MRS. SCHWICKER: This is the land, but it has no house on it.
There is no market value because it is wetlands.
MR. MANAREL: Well, unfortunately, you have put a market value
on it when you reduced from one price to another. Even if it is
10 cents. You said you wanted it reduced to $60.00. You put a market
value of $60. 00 on there. Therefore, you have to fill out these forms .
Because we are entrusted by law if this form is not filled out properly
we cannot act on it. We will just say no to you because we are obliged
by law not to act on it because it is not filled out properly. So
we want to be of help, but you have to fill out the forms properly be-
fore we can be of help to you.
MR. MARKEL: Bill, you could sit here at this table and fill out
the forms.
MR. SCHRIEVER: There is no market. I have a whole appraisal
here.
MR. MARKEL: Then why don' t you use the apprisal value as the
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Grievance Day = Page 83
market value?
MR. SCHRIEVER: It is an appraisal of wetlands in general, it is
not an appraisal of these particular parcels.
MR. MANAREL: You can do as you like.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I want it reduced to $60 .00.
MR. MANAREL: No, we are not going to take anything. The onus
is on you, sir. We do not want to argue, but I am just trying to
tell you what we are charged with so you do not walk out of here and
get a letter saying sorry we could not act on your request because
your forms were filled out correctly. We are giving you the opor-
tunity to fill them out, so we can be of help to you.
MR. MARKEL: I am sure Mr. Kelsey or someone else will be glad
to help you if you like.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I will put a number in there. It has no bearing
on the argument.
MR. MANAREL: The form has to be filled out.
MR. HEUSER: You see this condition has existed since 1972 . I
believe it existed before that. This was before us last year be-
cause here is the map with the lines running across it showing the
wetlands.
MR. SCHRIEVER: You know I 'm sworn under oath to tell the truth.
I do not know what the truth is. I object to this procedure.
MR. MANAREL: Sir, you can do as you like. I was only trying to
point out to you that under the law we cannot act on any complainant' s
request unless the form is properly filled out. I am telling you that
ahead of time instead of just accepting what you handed me and writing
you a letter two weeks later saying we are sorry we cannot act on
what you gave us. I am just trying to be of help.
MR. HEUSER: Our alternative would be just to reject these forms.
snd just mail them back to you and say the form is incomplete. That
would not be a very courteous way of handling it.
MR. MARKEL: Why don' t you go out and talk to Mr. Kelsey?
MR. MANAREL: I think that while Mr. Schriever fills out the
forms, we can bring Mr. Stankevich back and finish that.
NO. 64 - ST. PETER'S LUTHERAN CHURCH, 68465 Main Road, Greenport,
New York. George C. Stankevich, Esq. , representing the church. Let
the record show that Mr. Stankevich has brought with in a Court Steno-
grapher who sits next to him in the audience.
TO OF SOUTHOLD j
Grievance Day - Page 84
MR. MANAREL: Mr. Stankevich, would you like to proceed.
MR. HEUSER: Mr. Chairman, may I at this point say I must
remove myself from the Board again since I am a member of Pastor
Coleman' s Church. I have filled out the withdrawal form to be kept
with the records.
MR. STANKEVICH: I would like to speak to property now in
District.
MR. MANAREL: Would you please come and be sworn in again?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Do you solemny swear that the information you
give herein will be given accurately and truthfully to the best of
your ability.
MR. STANKEVICH: I do. I wish to speak to District 1001, Section
0007, Block 0004 , Lot 0002. Sixth ' Street, ' Greenport,_New York.
It is a vacant house. This house was acquired by St. Peter' s Lutheran
Church by gift. And er, it is being held by St. Peter' s Lutheran
Church as the potential or possible site for an assistant minister,
which is actively being sought by the church. Under those circum-
stances it most certainly falls within Section 421 of the New York
Real Property Tax Law in that the property is being held and actually
used by a non-profit corporation in this case a church, exclusively
for religious purposes. This house though it is vacant temporarily
is a potential site for a home for an assistant pastor that the church
has been seeking and will be seeking until it is successful. It should
not be removed from the tax rolls. What I would to do is . . .
MR. MANAREL: Do we have the complaint form on that one?
MR. STANEVICH: I would like to just give you some brief chronol-
ogy from the minutes of the parish that indicate what I have stated is
a fact.
MISS CORNINE: Did you find it?
MR. MANAREL: I don' t know which one is the house or the vacant
land?
MISS CORNINE: This is the one.
MR. MANAREL: That is what I thought.
MISS CORNINE: This is the one they just did.
MR. MANAREL: This is the one we are doing now.
MISS CORVINE: Yes.
MR. STANKEVICH: On April 17, 1978, there was a meeting of the
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Grievance Day - Page—85
Council of St. Peter' s Lutheran Church at which the so called premises
the "Nickles" house was discussed. And on that April 17, 1978 meeting
the minutes reflect. "reported that our insurance agent has been con-
tacted and $30 ,000 fire insurance coverage placed on the property with
liability coverage included in our blanket insurance policy for the
church. It was noted that the property committee ' s original feelings
were to hold the property - to consider renovating the house for use
possibly by an .assistant pastor administrator. The property committee
is presently continuing its assessment. " An additional meeting was
held on April 7, 1980, of the council of St. Peter' s Lutheran church.
At which the minutes reflect the following, " Assistant Pastor: The
selection process of one seminarian for St. Peter's assistant pastor
begins with recommendations from the forty member church leaders panel .
Each member will be asked to fill out a questionnaire. These written
opinion will then be evaluated by the Pastor to select a single name.
The congreation will then approve the selection at a special congrega-
tional meeting to be held as soon as possible.
MR. MARKEL: This is not in conjunction with this card.
MR. MANAREL: I have them both here.
MR. STANKEVICH: At that same meeting. . .
MR. MARKEL: This is the right one.
MR. STANKEVICH: the minutes . reflect that the first candidate to
be selected by the parish council decided not to come to Southold Town.
And the process was. then restarted to further go through this process
all over again to select a candidate. The Church is involved with that
right now. Now this house as presently standing has not been rented.
There are no tenants in there. No commercial money to be gained for the
use of those premises. It is not the circumstances you have possibly
had with other churches in the Town. They have a piece of property and
they rent it out. The house and whatnot and it is taken off the roles .
I think you might know what I am referring to. No gain has been gotten
from the premises, they are in the process of finding someone to fill
it.
MR. MARKEL: We are talking about the house on Sixth Street, is that
right?
PAIR. STANKEVICH: Yes sir.
MR. MANAREL: Here is the card and the folder. Sorry, go ahead.
MR. STANKEVICH: It is no different than had a house, had a minister.
That' s our case. If the poor chap died and had to move away for his
health. It would be vacant for a while
MR. MARKEL: When did you buy this Pastor?
MR. MANAREL: 5/30/80.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD0
j
Grievance Day - Page 86
MISS CORNINE: It doesn' t day.
MR. MANAREL It doesn' t say?
MISS CORNINE: No.
PASTOR: I think it was in 1977.
MR. S`1'ANKEVICH: I think February of 1977 was possible.
We are checking these, sorry.
MR. MANAREL: That' s okay. January 17, 1978.
MR. MARKEL: At any time after you bought it were there tenants
in the house?
PASTOR COLEMAN: No.
MR. STANKEVICH: No it has been vacant. No attempt has been made
to derive revenues or keep a caretakeer there or anything.
MRS. SCHWICKER: It has been vacant all the time?
MR. MANAREL: It has been vacant for 2-1/2 years . Are there any
questions? Again, thank you very much-, for -your prentation and we will
do our best to try to apply the proper decision, with your prayers,
Reverand.
MR. MANAREL: Have you seen these Sam?
MR. MARKEL: Not since they have been gone over.
MR. MANAREL: Pat, take a loop at that.
MR. HEUSER: On everyone of these applications he has shown the
assessed valuation as what he wants it reduced to?
MR. MARKEL: He is allowed to do that, isn' t he? But what about
on page three. He has nothing filled in on that particular page.
MR. MANAREL: That' s right. Well, I think he substantiates. . .
MR. MARKEL: Well, in this , yes , but this is not a part of this .
MR. MANAREL: I really could not answer that. That would be a
legal question. I don' t know about that. Ted, are you satisfied the
way this is filled out. You have more experience than I do.
MR. HEUSER: I don't like it.
MR. MANAREL: Pat, are you satisfied with the way this is filled
out?
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD j
' Grievance Day - Page*
MR. MANAREL: Pat, do you feel the applications are corrected enough?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Pardon?
MR. MANAREL: Do you think these are filled out enough. You have been
on this Bord longer than I have.
MRS. SCHWICKER: It is my feeling he does not know how to fill it
out. There is no building on this land.
MR. MANAREL: It is just land.
MRS. SCHWICKER: He says there is no value on it because it is
wetlands.
MR. HEUSER: He can' t make any judgment.
MRS. SCHWICKER: If you cannot sell it there is no market value.
This is wetlands.
MR. HEUSER: Page 3, is, what I think should be filled in.
That' s the tough part.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Purchase price?
MR. HEUSER: How much can you take.
MRS. SCHWICKER: It had to be bought at one time or another.
MR. HEUSER: Every one of these things is at a 1972 appraisal.
I mean tax base.
MR. MANAREL: They haven' t been touched since 1972 .
MRS. SCHWICKER: Okay, we have a purchase price here. In 1966 ,
the property was purchased for $30,000 .00.
MR. MANAREL: The whole thing?
MRS . SCHWICKER: Van Cleef, Main Road, Orient, on the bay. One
and three-quarters acres. This is the property in question? Right?
MR. SCHRIEVER: Pardon?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Is this not the property in question?
MR. SCHRIEVER: It wasn' t bought for $30, 000 .00 .
MRS. SCHWICKER: It sure was.
MR. WEINHEIMER: Which side of the road was it?
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD 0 it
' Grievance Day - Page 88
MRS. SCHWICKER: That lot number you state her. sir. They have
a sales price on there of $30,000.00 . This is the number right here
on the front of your papers.
MR. SCHRIEVER: Well, you see, these properties include their
residences on our side of the street. These wetland Pieces are on the
south side of the road.
MRS. SCHWICKER: I believe we saw a map of this a couple years ago
MR. SCHRIEVER: Right. and my guess that the $30,000 is for the
house and lot on the north side and the piece of the property on the
south. These pieces have been traded as a pair. They certainly would
not pary $30, 000. 00 for this.
MRS. SCHWICKER: This includes access to the water.
MR. SCHRIEVER: There is no access because thereis a creek.
MRS. SCHWICKER: There is access to the creek, isn' t there?
MR. SCHRIEVER: If you want to go to the creek, I guess so.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Then there is access to the creek.
MR. MARKEL: These are separate parcels?
MRS. SCHWICKER: Okay, MRS . SCHWICKER ADMINISTERED THE OATH
TO MR. SCHRIEVER. Now, you have to state that this property across
the road is all one part.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I gather this is the property of Mr. Van Cleef you
are referring to?
MRS . SCHWICKER: Yes, it is. This property has wetlands on it.
Across the road. Those wetlands go into a creek.
MR. SCHRIEVER: They encompass the creek. They go across it.
MRS. SCHWICKER: When the people bought the property, this is the
existing condition it was in? It has always been wetlands.
MR. SCHRIEVER: Yes, it has been wetlands since long before either
oen of us was born.
MRS. SCHWICKER: The property was purchased in 1966 for a cost of
approximately $30, 000. 00.
MR. SCHRIEVER: Yes.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Therein, you have your market value.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I will point out how this works.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD j
Grievance Day - Page089
MR. SCHRIEVER: This is Mr. Van Cleef' s residence. This is his
piece here. This is Mrs. Silverstone' s residence, and this is her
piece.
MR. HEUSER: That is the map we saw.
MRS. SCHWICKER: That 's right.
MR. SCHRIEVER: These five parcels are tied to residence property
across the road. This property is not suitable for residences. It is
just to protect the view of these lots over here. There is no market in
and of itself. They will always trade as a part of the other property.
They are separately assessed, but in fact, tie in. In fact, if you look
at all the propertyacross the bay, you will find in every case this
piece is part of that, this piece is part of that, etc.
MRS. SCHWICKE: But what I am trying to get at is when the property
was purchased, you said you are an owner of one of those parcels?
MR. SCHRIEVER: Of one of those parcels.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Okay, when it was purchased, you knew the property
across the way went with the purchase of the other property. It was
all purchased at one time.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I , did not purchase it. My wife inherited it so
there was no purchase price.
MRS. SCHWICKER: But it all came in one package?
MR. SCHRIEVER: Right.
MRS. SCHWICKER: You knew that taxes would have to be paid on that
property.
MR. SCHRIEVER: That 's correct. The taxes at that time were. . . .
MRS. SCHWICKER: In spite of the fact it was wetlands and useless
to you.
MR. SCHRIEVER: At that time it was useless. You have to under-
stand and that is the point I am trying to make here in this presentation.
At that time that property was not restricted by the Town Wetlands Ordin-
ance, it was now restricted by the New York State Wetlands Act. You
could dig that out and put a marina there and make some money. The situ-
ation has changed drastically since 1971 when the Town enacted the Wet-
lands Act, which blocked the use of that property. The State then pro-
ceeded to do it in a much more elegant way. Now it is just absolutely
sewed up. You cannot build on it because you cannot meet the require-
ments.
MRS. SCHWICKER: In other words if you didn 't do anything to that
property before 1971, you cannot do it at all?
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Grievance Day - Page 90
MR. SCHRIEVER: That is a fact.
MRS. SCHWICER: I would say that was your choice. You didn' t
choose to do anything before then. After 1971 came and put in the
Wetlands Acy you were stuck more or less . Right?
MR. SCHRIEVER: What they did really was they condemned the
property without payment. That is what they did So what they did
in the law to compensate you in a certain way was to specify you
should get your taxes reduced. They are continuing to support this
reduction in taxes. Nassau County has done had done this over the
whole county with ;no problem. In fact they did it before the act
was completed. For some reason or other I have not been able to con-
vince this Board of that or the Board of Assessors that this is a fact.
I have more material this time than I have everyhad before and I would
like VERY MUCH to make my presentation.
MR. MANAREL: Go ahead.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Go right ahead.
MISS CORNINE: Just one thing. You are going to treat each one
of these applications separately?
MR. SCHRIEVER: I have here a survey of the property which was done
by Mr. Van Tuyl.
MR. MANAREL: We have to treat each one as a separate entity.
Each one of these you are referring to.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I submitted them separately. However, the presen-
tion is identical. In that what is stapled on there in every case so
the presentation applies to all the properties.
MR. MANAREL: So what we are saying is that you will make one pre
sentation for ohe piece of property and we are to understand that same
presentation goes for all the others.
MR. SCHRIEVER: If you wish to take it that way.
MISS CORVINE: So when you do this presentation you will just deal
with the Van Cleef property.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I would just as soon deal with my own than with
the Van Cleef property, if you don' t mind.
MR. MANAREL: That is your choice.
MISS CORNINE. Then let' s reverse the order of the applications,
and I will adjust the minutes.
MR. SCHRIEVER: The last time I made a presentation for the five
together, but I will do it.
MISS CORVINE: Due to court cases and everything, it is easier
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Grievance Day Page 91
if we keep all things separate.
LET THE RECORD SHOW: William Schriever is doing a presentation
for Application No. 69 standing in the name of Mr. and Mrs. William
W. Scriever, Main Road, Orient, New York. The following presentation
is also to be considered for the following applications, to wit:
No. 66 - Mr. and Mrs. Clifford J. Van Cleef
NO. 67 - Rose 0. Silverstone
NO. 68 - Clement J. Welles
NO. 70 - Margaret E. Aha.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I will do my own parcel and at my invitation I will
extend that to the other property.
MISS CORNINE: One more thing. He has to be sworn in for his own
application No. 69 as he has just been sworn in for Application 66 .
MRS. SCHWICKER SWORE IN MR. SCHRIEVER FOR APPLICATION NO. 69 .
MR. SCHRIEVER: This is a survey of this property that was prepared
originally for a scenic easement application. The scenic easement was
granted on these parcels of John Tuthill. There was no hearing or any
grant ever made on these parcels. My property is this piece here, the
larger one of the bunch. This is 135 feet back, this line here. I
have sketched in here an outline of the upland portion, that is the marsh
grass and the bog begins here. This is dry land, but very low. This is
just high enough to stay dry. This is the creek out here, going through
here, the mud creek. I guess it is 2 feet deep at mean tide, This is
more marsh land and this is the beach. This is sort of a barrier reef
out there. That is a survey of the property.
MR. HEUSER: When the original purchase was made, was there any
proviso or any thinking of how you were going to get to your beach?
Could you get to your beach?
MR. SCHRIEVER: Well, the property. There was at one time, and I
don' t know. . . I remember seeing pieces of this think in the early 1950 ' s
It was finished in the 1954 hurricane. This property was divided up
right after the 1938 hurricane, when the Mt. Pleasant house, which is
located about here was severdly damaged, and the Miller family that owned
the house divided up the property and sold it off to the people across
the road, and of course the Mt. Pleasant house property included a part
of what is now our property. A piece was sold to my wife 's parents and
then these other lots were generated out of the Mt. Pleasant lot.
MR. HEUSER: Just to repeat my question, sir? When you purchased
this property, with so much dry land on the road, then beyond the marsh-
land, beyond the creek and then the beach. I was questioning the access-
ability of that beach when you purchased the property.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
' Grievance Day - Page�2
MR. SCHRIEVER: There was no access over this property. The point
I was just trying to make was thatithe Mt. Pleasant house at the time
of this. . . .there used to be a walk way that went down across here just
about where this line goes. There were some boat docks down here where
people kept their boats. If you remember Ed King, he was the Captain
of one of the Boats, Mr. and Mrs. Stern' s boat that they kept down
here.
MR. HEUSER: There were three boats down there to my recollection.
MR. SCHRIEVER: Well, I know Alma Vail Knox had a piece, which is
not shown on this map.
MR. HEUSER: That is what made me question the acaessibility to
the beach.
MR. SCHRIEVER: This walk way was the only access to the beach.
You can tet to this beach by going down the Main Road about a mile and
coming back on the barrier beach. The property really extends over to
Section 23 although they are indexed as part of Section 17 . If you
Look at section 23, which is Exhibit B you will see the remainder of the
property.
MR. HEUSER: How many acres have you got usable on your property?
MR. SCHRIEVER: By usable, you mean dry?
MR. HEUSER: Okay, yes.
MR. SCHRIEVER: The upland portion there is 3/4 of an acre. .
MR. HEUSER: In other words there is 4 acres on your property and
only 3/4th of an acre is usable land?
MR. SCHRIEVER: Right. The parcel that you can walk on is 3/4 of
an acre. That parcel does back 135 feet back from the Main Road.
MR. MARKEL: Unless this has been split by the assessors and they
consider there is actual soil there.
MR. HEUSER: You have 243 feet on the road?
MR. MARKEL: On the general road.
MR. HEUSER: How deed is it?
MR. SCHRIEVER: 135 feet is the dry land portion where you can walk.
MR. MARKEL: Does that include the house he lives in?
MR. SCHRIEVER: No, that is not correct. We get two tax bills
there. These properties are all assessed separately. I don' t understand
how they put that $30, OOOJ00 down on that piece of property.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD • •
Grievance Day - Page 93
g
MR. MARKEL: Okay, that clarifies that fact for me.
MR. SCHRIEVER: In fact that is an error. These parcels are in
the A Residential and Agricultural District, which is the thing that
covers farmland and so forth. None of the parcels have enough upland
to build a house on under the zoning ordinance. In other words, to
build a house on any of these parcels, you would have to get an area
variance. You would also on most of them have to get a width variance.
My parcel is about is as good as any. It is 135 feet back from the
front line to the back of the parcel . The second fact in the Town
Ordinace is tht it is a state highway and you can guess they will want
to honor the setback. This setback is 50 feet. You subtract 50 from
135 and you get 85 feet. The tidal wetlands act treats the upland
portion of this parcel, which is known as adjacent land. Any land
that is adjacent to tidal wetlands is restricted under the Tidal Wet-
lands Act up to 300 feet from the boundary of the title wetlands or
up to any man; �made structure which is at least 100 feet long, substantial,
and all these things . You can find it in one of these exhibits. That
means that all the land from the edge of the tidal wetlands up to the
edge of the existing road defined in the act is adjacent land under the
Wetlands Act. Adjacent land under the Tidal Wetlands Act ban be used.
It is not prohibited. But it is usable only under the conditions of the
act. The act provides that any structure erected on this land must be
set back 75 feet from the boundary of the Tidal wetlands Remember we
had 85 feet ack from the Main Road and 75 feet back from the wetlands
and we now have 10 feet left in which to erect the principal residence.
In order to build on this property you would have to get not only a
variance from the Town which would be extremely difficult, but you would
also have to get a variance from the Tidal Wetlands people. Now the
probability of this happening is zero. The act provides specifically
in the language that if such a variance is not gotten it cannot be assumed
to exist and the land must be taxed as though it were not buildable.
That is right in the act. The quote is in one of the exhibits. Now
what this means is that these properties are not house lots under the
law and cannot be taxed as houselots under the law. It doesn' t matter
if they are 100 acres they do not meet the requirements for a house
lot, cannot be sold as a house lot and cannot be taxed as a house lot.
So they must be taxed as adjacent land, and they must be taxed as wetlands.
The provision of the act which I reference here, ,; if you look at Exhibit
H, which is in the back, it is a Tidal Wetlands - Land use regulations
and it says that this act . . .these maps showing these properties have
been distributed to the assessors and so forth and so on, , and that has
been done as a matter of fact. The map was provided to this office in
late 1977. The act went into effect on September 14, 1977 ordering
bringing this act as Exhibit B. Sheet 2. (Mr. Schriever read from the
Environmental Conservation Law ) Now what that means is you cannot tax
land as a house lot if it is not used as a house lot. Number 2 you must
take into account that the property is restricted. In effect it has a
scenic easement on it. I want to show you. .
MR. HEUSER: These are not necessary.
MR. SCHRIEVER: These are the land use regulations.
. TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Grievance Day - Page 94
and this thing was taken out of this. I would like that back eventually
when you get done with it. You will find Exhibit H is a direct quota-
tion from those regulations. Also I have enclosed here in Exhibit C.
this is the General Municipal Law, Section 247. This is the section that
provides for scenic easements. Here it is called acquisition of open
spaces and areas. When the Town of Southold grants a scenic easement it
does it under this Law. What this regulation I just read� you says is
that for the purpose of property tax valuation it is he same manner as
if an easement or right had been acquired under the Gneral Municipal Law
and that assessment is based on restricting regulations.
MR. MANAREL: Now, Mr. Schriever. . .
MR. SCHRIEVER: Excuse„me, just let me make a point. My argument
is this there are properties in the Town which are subject to a scenic
easement. The property of John B. Tuthill which is adjacent to these
properties and shown on this tax map is subject to a scenic easement.
In those cases there has been a 50% reduction roughtly in the assessment
of the land because of the scenic easement. My argument is this law
provides these properties here should be given the benefit of that 50%
reduction, the same reduction that the other properties that have scenic
easement enjoy, but this act provided that these properties do have
scenic easements, and it says so right here.
MR. HEUSER: Mr. Chairman, there is one point I would like to
clarify with Mr. Schriever: The last assessed valuation of this property
was in 1972 on each one of these lots. Is that right.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I presume so. At one time the assessments were
almost doubled on the property.
MR. HEUSER: This assessment has existed for 8 years.
MR. SCHRIEVER: Yes.
MR. HEUSER: That was the point I wanted to make
MR. SCHRIEVER: This is the fourth time I have come into this
Board.
MR. MANAREL: I think that your presentation is well made and you
have must material for us to peruse when we go over these, Mr. Schriever.
Are there any questions from the Board?
MR. MARKEL: I would like to see if an assessor is here.
MR. MANAREL: If you want we will bring him in, but I don' t know
what for.
MR. MARKEL: I just want to ask him how he arrived at the figures.
MR. SCHRIEVER: Before I quit if it is at all possible, I have one
more argument to make having to do with the assessment of the wetlands.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD •
Grievance Day - Page 95
And I would like to do that. I have here if you want to look at it this.
is the original print from which the picture of the wetlands is taken.
If you want it?
MR. MANAREL: Is someone coming in?
MR. HEUSER: I want to raise this question and we have gone over
it for three consecutive years now. These so called wetlands, these
so called wetlands that were presented when they got the Orient Point
Road, the land to,,�the south of the Main Road, you have given that wetland
evaluation all the way down, or the equivalents thereof?
MR. KELSEY: Jack handles all that wetland business.
MR. HEUSER: Part of it is not wetlands.
MR. KELSEY: Some of if is buildable.
MR. MARKEL: None of it is buildable according to Mr. Schriever.
MR. SCHRIEVER: There are other parcels that are buildable. John
Tuthill is suitable for building, right next to it. It is assessed at
a 1/3 fo the rate these are.
MR. KELSEY: The card says no change in 1979 .
MR. HEUSER: The card says 1972. The last assessed valuation was
1972.
MR. KELSEY: Right. I would suggest you hold this in abeyance
and discuss this with Jack Sherwood.
MR. HEUSER: I would like to make that a motion.
MR. MANAREL: No question about it.
MR. MARKEL: Mr. Kelsey, please look at this card and see the
acreage and look at Mr. Schriever' s card and look at the acreage.
Tell me how you ascertain the difference between 2 acres at 800 and
4 acres at 700.
MR. KELSEY: Based on the waterfront, they are charged a different
rate.
MR. MARKEL: Why is one $7 and one $8? I just want to get your
ideas.
MR. KELSEY: It is done on the depth of the property, not the
acreage.
MR. HEUSER: We have run across that before. The road frontage
and the depth influences the rate.
MR. KELSERY: If the road frontage on two parcels is the same,
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD • .
M Grievance Day - Page '96
but the depth is difference, they will have different rates.
MR. HEUSER: We ran into that in Cutchogue.
MR. MANAREL: Thank you. Are there any other questions?
MR. SCHRIEVER: I would like to finish my argument. This is the
fourth time around, and I -would really like to get this finished.
If you donft mind. I think I have a point here and I really would like
to make it. I have taken a sample of some farmland in Orient. This is
plain old ordinary farmland. It has no scenic easement on it. It is
just farmland. It belongs to H. M. Demarest & Sons. They farm it in
Orient. I have five parcels here, and I just checked these again and
some of these have changed area and the values have changed, but the
general result is the same as it was before. The farmland is being
assessed at $250. 00 an acre. I 'm told by the Assessors Office that is
a fair assmption. Then if you take the Exhibit B which is the second
of the two tax maps on there you will see I have given the assessed
value of the property, the acreage of the property as shown on the
assessment roll, which may differ from the tax map acreage, this is
what is shown on the Town's roll, and I divide the assessed acrage
into the assessment and I get an assessment per acre. Now the property
of John Tuthill on this Exhibit B is divided into two parts. There is
a piece that is north of the creek and a piece that is south of the
creek. You will see the one to the southwest is visible completely
there to the Van Clee.f property. The one to the north you have to look
up on the Section 17 map to see all of it. Those are the two large
parcels here. The one to the north of the creek is farmland. If you
look at the photograph, which is the Exhibit E, party of the wetlands
map, that part of the wetlands map was created by taking an ariel photo-
graph and then marking the lines on it. If you look at the part marked
John B. Tuthill you will see the rows of the farm there. You can see
that is not wetland, that is buildable property. It is a pretty good
piece there. Ed Latham farms it and he has a farm stand on the north
end of it. Then you will tee the creek and across the creek you will
see the other parcel of John Tuthill ' s property, which is clearly wet-
lands. If you look back in Exhibit B, you will see the part north of
the creek, the farmland is being assessat at $132. 00 an acre or
$3,200. 00 divided by 24. 20 acres. If you take 50% of the farmland
acrds, which i $250. 00 per acre, which we have already established using
the Demarest property, you take $50% of that because this is subject to
scencic easemeAt, you should get roughly 1/2 of $250 which is $125. This
is $132. You can see that the Town is assessing farmland subject to a
scenic easement at 1/2 rate that they are assessing farmland now subject
to a scenic easement. My argument is that the uplands portion of my
parcel and by implication the other four parcels is at best farmland and
therefore should not be assessed at a figure greater than $125 or $132. 00
per acre. , because that is what other property of the same or better
character is being assessed at. John Tuthill' s property is almost
entirely farmland in that north parcel . It has road frontage galore and
it is high and dry and buildable and he is being assessed $132.00 an acre.
So he is subject to a scenic easement. The uplands portions of our
parcels are not nearly so high and dry, but they can be walked on. They
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
" Gritevance Day - Page 97
are not buildable and we are being assessed at the average rate of
$400. 00 per acre including the creek bottom which we don' t even
own and the creek frontage we cannot get to. My first argument concludes
that the upland portion should be assessed at $125 per acre based upon
the comparison with other similar property in the Orient area, which I
believe I have established beyond a reasonable doubt. Now what about
the wetlands portions of the property. Well, there just aren' t any
sales of wetlands to speak of and in order to get something to go on,
the Department of Environmental Conservation had a study made. They
commissioned a study. I have the complete report of the study here in
four volumes. The Town was given this one volume, which they have.
I have the borrowed from the DEC the entire studay, and I will leave
it with you. I think you will find it interesting. There are. . .
this includes all of the trades of the wetlands or combines wetlands
and other property that have occurred in New York including Long Island.
MR. MANAREL: Mr. Schriever, . . . .
MR. HEUSER: The Assessors called me out with the request that we
put a time limit on your particular pi6ce.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I am almost done.
MR. HEUSER: There are other people waiting here that we have to
take care of. They have been sitting here for an hours. We cannot give
and hour to everybody. We accept your presentation. We realize that,
but the Assessors are asking us to curtail it. We are not cutting you
short.
MR. SCHRIEVER: Can I get two more sentences in?
MR. MANAREL: Two sentences, go ahead.
MR. SCHRIEVER: I would like to loan this appraisal to this Board
to look at and the appraisal and the conclusions which are in this top
bolume. You will see that this Pomeroy came to the conclusion after
analyzing all these sales that wetlands should be assessed at 15% of
the value of the adjacent wetlands. and it is on that basis that I make
my assessment. Thank you.
MR. MANAREL: Thank you Mr. Schriever.
NO. 70 - VOID SISU DEVELOPMENT INC. , Mr. Stankevich Withdrew this .
NO. 71 - JOSEPH TOWNSEND, JR. and ARNOLD GARDNER, 215 Main Street,
Greenport, New York 11944.
BASIS OF COMPLAINT: Inequality: Using the 11. 70 rate of
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD •
"Grievance Day - Page 98
Equalization, which is incorrect. OVERVALUATION: Ffull market value
of property: $23,000. 00; Assessed valuation of property: $6, 300. 00;
Amount of overvaluation claimed: $3609 .00 ; Complainant believes the
assessment should be reduced to $2691. 00
MR. MANAREL: Please come up. Are you both going to speak or is
one.
JOSEPH TOWNSEND: I think we both will. I will probably start off.
MR. MANAREL: That is all right. Why don't you both come up
here. If you will step over there, Mrs. Schwicker will swear you both
in so you can both speak.
MRS. SCHWICKER SWORE IN MR. TOWNSEND AND MR. GARDNER.-
MR. MANAREL: Go ahead.
MR. TOWNSEND: We are questioning the assessment on a couple of
basis' l but primarily on the basis of the actual market value of the
property. Last December, 1979, we purchased this at a public bid for
$23,000. 00, which I feel and Mr. Gardner feels represents the market
value of that property. It had been to bid two times before that and
had no received and higher bids than ours. The assessment that the
Town of Southold has given the property is $63Q0. , and then using the
rate of equilization that brings it almost to $54 , 000. 00.
MR. GARDNER: That is at the 11. 70%.
MR. MANAREL: We don' t use that figure in this township. That is
a state figure and they use it for state equalization purposes.
MR. TOWNSEND: What do you use it for?
MR. MANAREL: They tell us to multiply the assessed valuation by
4 and we come up with what the figure they use.
MR. TOWNSEND: The state feels that the 11% is fair.
MR. MANAREL: That is used mainly for school taxes.
MR. TOWNSEND: This is the Village of Greenport taxes, and you
can see they rate the property at $2800, which is very close to what
we feel it should be. They, of course, were involved in the sale.
MR. HEUSER: Thi is the Southold one?
MISS CORNINE: They have their own County Tax Map numbers.
MR. MARKEL: What we have in effect is two assessors who give
two different assessments?
MR. TOWNSEND: I thought the Village used the Town assessors.
aTOWi1 OF SOUTHOLD
r •
Grievance Day - Page 99
MR. MARKEL.: Who assesses down there now?
MR. TOWNSEND: I don' t know because when I was involved, it was a
Ed Fox. He retired though. That is the heart of our presentation.
However based on the property values, we look at the adjacent property,
for instance, Hommel, which is on a corner lot, on the main street is
assessed for $7900 , the building is approximately.
MR. MANAREL: This is the old Town Hall.
MR. TOWNSEND: That' s right, the old Town Hall. The approximate
area in their building is 3500 square feet which is about twice what
ours is. They have a corner location on Main Street. They have not
only 86 feet of frontage on South Street, where we have 30 feet of
frontage, they have 30 feet on Main Street which is the primary business
area and still their assessment is only $1600 higher than ours.
MR. MARKEL: Are you talking about Village or Town?
MR. TOWNSEND: Town, right now. The property is two times as beig
as ours. Their taxes are only. . . .
MR. WEINHEIMER: How much did you say Hommels was valuated at?
MR. TOWNSEND: Land and buildings $7900 .00 . Our total is 6300.
They have twice the building size, a much better location and we feel
that in litigation that the property we own is overassessed. The other
property right next to ours and previously owned by Watson. I don't
know the name of the new people. I assume the taxes have gone up since
then because they have improved the property. He is putting a couple of.
apartments plus a storefront. Last year the building and land were
assessed at $2300. That property is almost a direct equa*alent to ours.
It is residential, but the income from that property is going to be twice
the amount we derive from our property. Our income is going to be
$4800 per year based on one rent at $400 .00 per month.
MR. MARKEL: That is gross income.
MR. TOWNSEND: That's right, gross income.
MR. MARKEL: You are not applying on that basis are you?
MR. TOWNSEND: We did, put it down. We 're not experts in this .
MR. HEUSER: Let me ask you something. Why are there two different
tax bills on the property.
MR. MANAREL: One is the Village of Greenport. One of them is
the Town of Southold.
MR. HEUSER: I see.
MR. MARKEL: They pay an extra tax.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD 4 •
'Grievance Day - Page 100
MR. HEUSER: You pay an extra tax?
MR. GARDNBRC, That' s right.
MR. TOWNSEND: Yes.
MR. MANAREL: We get you one way, they get you the other.
MR. TOWNSEND: Right. The Town takes out something for their
taxes, and they really add more than their share.
MR. HEUSER: I am really at a loss though when comparing the purchase
price versus the assessed valuation.
MR. TOWNSEND: The purchase price of $23,000. 00.
MR. HEUSER: You were very frank in putting your price.
We appreciate it.
MR. TOWNSEND: It was a public bid.
MR. HEUSER: But we probably would not have known the difference.
MRS. SCHWICKER: What do you have it assessed for?
MR. TOWNSEND: It is irreplaceable we feel, but we put $65, 000 .00
on it. This is not related to market value. I think the movie theatre
property has a replacement value in excess of $200, 000 .00.
MR. HEUSER: If we have an assessed valuation of $5700. 00; $600
for your land and $5100 for your building. You have it down here for
$6300 . 00.
MRS. SCHWICKER: He probably means $5700 for the building.
MR. MANAREL: $5700 all together on the card.
MR. MARKEL: That must be an error.
MR. GARDNER: We took it off the role this afternoon.
MR. TOWNSEND: Do you have $5700 on there.
MRS. SCHWICKER: I thought I saw it.
MR. KELSEY: That was the old Town Hall. There is no date when
it was last inspected, and I questioned even if they assessed it on the
tax roll in the first place. Since I have been Chairman of the Board,
I have tried to keep tract of all execmpt property such as your schools
and all knowing they are not going on the tax rolls to have a basic or
real figure for real assessed valuation.
MR. MANAREL: What was your question here?
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
''Grievance Day - Page 101
MR. HEUSER: How do you explain your assessment compared to what
the Village of Greenport has this assessed for? This is a substantial
difference.
MR. KELSEY: Well, I cannot explain for the Village of Greenport,
but we were down there. They don1t have an assessor for the first
thing.
MR. HEUSER: Oh.
MR. KELSEY: They take most of their information from our cards.
MR. MARKEL: Sam, didn' t we meet the assessor from Greenport at
the meeting?
MR. KELSEY: There was one man there, the new man. They have had
difficulty in getting an assessor. Ed Fox was the assessor at one time.
Tony Blados from Shelter Island also did it at one time.
MR. MARKEL: Do you think it would be possible Mr. Kelsey to see
Hommels card?
MR. TOWNSEND: Can I go on.
MR. MANAREL: Surely.
MR. TOWNSEND: We have several things that are indicative of the
fact that we are over assessed. Such as Marie Benko who is located on
the corner of South Street and 2nd Street has property that is 60 feet
by 80 feet. The building, there are two buildings which pretty much
dominate the whole property. There is aonly an alley and a driveway that
are not covered by a building. They have 80 feet on South street and
60 feet on Second Street. Their building is 4800 square feet, although
it is not two stories all the way around. It includes the liquor store,
tailor shop and the house. The building is approximately 3 times what
our building is and their assessment is the same .
MR. HEUSER: They depreciated that building 35% before they put it
on the tax rolls
MR. MANAREL: For comparison purposes here is the Hommel card.
MR. MARKEL: Square footage of the building is what we want to know.
It also has a depreciation factor.
MR. MANAREL: They give you a 35% depreciation figure on that
building.
MR. HEUSER: Okay, let' s see where we are now. You have 700 more
feet for occupancy then they do.
MR. TOWNSEND: Occupancy? What do you mean by that?
TOWN, OF SOUTHOLD •
Grievance Day - Page 02
MR. HEUSER: You have more living area. Upstairs and clown stairs.
You have 700 more square feet in your building than they do. We're
talking out Clinton Hommel.
MR. MARKEL: You have a second story. They have a second story.
MR. MANAREL: What is the length of the building? Square footage?
MR. HEUSER: We figure you 34 feet by 58 feet. But now, don 't for-
get to double it. They count both floors.
MR. GARDNER: That' s about right.
MR. TOWNSEND: I don' t understand. If you look at the buildings
you will see.
MR. KELSEY: We take the outside measurements on the ground floor.
The difference between the one story and two story is deducted in the
rate. We don' t go by cubic feet.
MR. MARKEL: I know, square footage on the ground floor.
MR. TOWNSEND: There is only section of approximately 25 feet that
is above these doors.
MR. KELSEY: It should mention that on the card. Whether it is one
story, one and one half stories or two stories.
MR. MARKEL: See the rates are different.
MR. HEUSER: The second story has got 9 feet less in length than the
top floor of the old Town building. The extension has 19 feet less in
length than the Town building. All the same width.
MR. MARKEL: 74 feet by. . . . this is going to be hard, because there
is a different rate for each one. This building is definitely larger.
MR. TOWNSEND: It occupies the entire lot which is twice as large
as our lot. There is not probably one square foot of property that is
not occupied by that building. Their lot is twice as large as ours.
MR. HEUSER: Is there a new survey?
MR. MANAREL: on the sides of the building, you are maintaining
this building is larger than yours.
MR. TOWNSEND: I am maintaining it is almost twice as large as
our building. There are parts of it that may not be the same, but over-all
they have a larger building.
MR. KELSEY: Here is some square footage. Add that and it will tell
you.
MR. HEUSER: There is your square footage right tere.
'OWN OF SOUTHOLD 9 •
Grievance Day - page 103
MR. KELSEY: I was there when we measured them, so those figures
have got to be right.
MR. MANAREL: Why don' t we just take these and have a measurement
made to make sure that we come up with the right measurements because
the descrepancy that seems to exist will be erased.
MR. TOWNSEND: I don' t want to put my whole case on this. The
property formekly owned by Watson has a two story frmae building which
they are not only going to get two apartments plus a store rental and
their assessment last year was $2300; of course it wasn' t being used.
Ours really wasn' t used last year either. Our building is in better
shape I cannot deny that. We are talking about an assessment more than
two times as great. Their income is going to be higher than our income.
This is the property to the left of ours as you look at the picture.
They say that is a residential property versus our commerical, but the
income will be larger than ours. They can put a store in and attract a
lot of business. I don' t want to take up more of your time than necessary.
MR.MANAREL: That' s alright.
MR. HEUSER: That' s perfrctly all right. We are heare.
MR. TOWNSEND: Did you want to add anything, Mr. Gardner?
MR. MANAREL: I think the doors are closed any1 e. These are our
last hearings of the night. Does anyone on the board have any further
questions?
MR. MARKEL: I would like to have that measurement made, Sam. I
think it should be done.
MR. GARDNER: I would like to make just one point. On the valuation
of the properties themselves. Based on the actual value of the property
it must be determined by the sale made in December, which is a little more
than 6 months ago, at $23,000. 00; this is not the first time it was offered
for sale. It was offered twice before, we bid in at $23 ,000 and it was
the highest bid.
MR. TOWNSEND: We bid for it to prevent from becoming a warehouse.
If Mr. Hommel felt it wasn 't worth more than $21, 000 . I would be really
suporised if he bid based on what you have us assessed for.
MR. MARKEL: He has property on Main Street, which is assessed at
$1000 a foot.
MR. TOWNSEND: We had a schecule of other properties with no expla-
nation whichwe were going to submit. We wanted to make a copy of it
and leave it.
MR. MANAREL: I' ll tell you what will be even simplier, make a copy
and bring us one tommorow. You will be here anyway.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD •
urievance Day - Page 104
NO. 73 -KEVIN & LORRAINE QUILLAN, P. OB. BOX 42, Greenport, New
York 11942.
BASIS FOR COMPALINT ON ASSESSMENT: INEQUALITY: Full market
value of property: $36 ,000.00; Complaint believes the assessment
should be reduced to $4800 . 00.
KEVIN QUILLAN: I purchased the house around January, 1980 and
the appraiser from the house came down and appraised my property and
advised it was assessed at far more than it was worth. and in com-
parison with the neighbors. I paid $36,000. 00.
MR. MANAREL: Can we back up a second and ask you something.
Who was the bank?
MR. QUILLAN: Southold Savings Bank.
MR. MANAREL: Southold Savings Bank.
MR. MARKEL: Were you applying for a mortgage?
MR. QUILLAN: yes.
MR. MANAREL: Who was the person at the bank who made that
statement?
MR. QUILAN: I don' t know?
MISS CORNINE: Lance Larsen?
MR. QUILLAN: I don' t know.
MR. MANAREL: That' s who it was?
MR. QUILLAN: I guess so.
MR. MANAREL: Go ahead. _
MR. QUILLAN: I purchased mine for $36, 000. 00 in comparison who
purchase his house for $70, 000. 00. He is only paying $200. 00 more
than I am for taxess. That doesn' t seem right.
MR. MANAREL: Let' s say this to you. We have nothing to do with
taxes here. This is just a matter is assessed too high or not enough.
We don' t know anything about taxes. ,
MR. QUILLAN: Okay, it is assessed too high.
MR. MANAREL: Okay.
MR. HEUSER: 4820 square feet. Is that right?
MR. QUILLAN: Right.
TOW T OF SOUTHOLD •
Grievance Day - Page 105
MR. HEUSER: That includes your garage.
MR. QUILLAN: Right.
MR. MANAREL: 4343 is the square footage of the living space.
Then a garage for 480 square feet.
MR. HEUSER: The rate is all right.
MR. QUILLAN: The house is in the state of dilapitation right
now. It needs roofing, gutters and it leaks. It has all second
hand lumber in the place.
MR. HEUSER: Sold by A. Coppola to K. Quillan.
MR. QUILLAN: That' s right.
MR. HEUSER: $65, 000. 00.
MR. MANAREL: No, 36, 000.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Subject to an $18, 000 . 00 mortgage. You are not
reading that right.
MR. HEUSER: This is not a 4?
MRS. SCHWICKER: That is a dollar sign.
MR. MANAERL: There is no descrepancy about purchase price. That
is what I wanted to ask you.
MR. QUILLAN: My neighbor just purchased his not too long back
His is a $70,000. 00 home and he is only paying a couple hundred dollars
more than I am.
MRS. SCHWICKER: What is your neighbor' s name?
MR. QUILLAN: Ernest Stilley.
MISS CORNINE: Is that Bob Brown ' house?
MR. QUILLLAN: Yes.
MR. HEUSER: You are bounded on the east by a party named Loeb ?
MR. QUILLAN: Yes. My whole point is he paid double for his house
yet only pays $200. 00 more in taxes than I do.
MR. MANAREL: We' ll see when the card comes in. You are not sure
what he paid for it?
MR. QUILLAN: He paid $70,000 . 00.
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD •
`Grievance Day - Page 106
MR. HEUSER: It is assessed at $6500. since 1970 and you are
assessed at $5400. We turn over the page.
MR. MARKEL: 0665 over here and what is the acreage over here.
MR. HEUSER: 0332.
MR. MARKEL: Okayy that is about a third.
MR. HEUSER: They both have full basements of cement, wooden
shingles , he has a brik couse. , fireplaces they both have. He has
one and a half baths. Both have oak floors. Sheetrock and hot
water heat. What is your heat?
MR. QUILLAN: Hot air heat.
MR. MARKEL: A 4100 difference.
MR. HEUSER: We are talking about the assessment here.
MR. MARKEL Look at that.
MRS. SCHWICKER: Look at that.
MR. HEUSER: The building is a $500 .00 difference on the assess-
ment.
MR. MARKEL: It is a brick building against a frame building.
MR. MANAREL; Okay, we heard your comments, we did the comparison
and we heard your comments, and we will come up with a decision. We
will be notifying you in a couple of days. Thank you.
NO. 32 - Oscar J. Bloom , etal. -,801 Mt. Sinai-Coram Road, Mt,
Sinai, New York 11766
No. 33 - ST. AGNES ROMAN CATHOLICCHURCH AT GREENPORT, Front Street,
Greenport, New York 11944
NO. 34 - ST. AGNES ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, Front Street, Greenport,
New York.
NO. 35 - ST. AGNES ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AT GREENPORT, Front Street,
Greenport, New York
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD .
'Grievance Day - Page 07
NO. 36 - ST. AGNES ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, Front Street, Greenport,
New York.
NO. 37 - VERA MAYER, c/o Koeppel Sommer Lesnick & Martone,
155 First Street, Mineola, New York 11501
NO. 38 - 235 MILL STREET, INC. , c/o Koeppel Sommer Lesnick & Mar-
tone, P.C. , 155 First Street, Mineola, New York 11501
NO. 39 - S & E REALTY CO. , c/o Koeppel Sommer Lesnick &
Martone, P.C. 155 First Stret, Mineola, New York 11501.
NO. 40 - VERA MAYER, c/o Koepell Sommer Lesnick & Martone,
155 First Street, Mineola, New York 11501.
NO. 41 - DEBORAH PENNEY c/o George H. Furman, P. 0. Box 509,
Patchogue, New York 11772
NO. 42 - VANTAGE PETROLEUM CORP. , c/o Matthew Cronin, Esq. 1539
Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501.
NO. 43 - VANTAGE PETROLEUM CORP. , c/o Matthew J. Cronin, 1539
Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501.
NO. 44 - HODOR-STALLER AND KASPET, ET AL. , c/o Matthew J. Cronin,
1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501.
NO. 45 - CUTCHOGUE JOINT VENTURE, c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq.
1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501.
NO. 46 - ARSHAMOMAQUE ASSOCIATES, STALLER ASSOCIATES, INC. ,
c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. , 1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New
York 11501
TC OF SOUTHOLD •
Grievance Day - Page 108
NO. 47 - ARSHAMOMAQUE ASSOCIATES, STALLER ASSOCIATES, INC. , C?O
Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. 1539 Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501
NO. 48 - S & E REALTY CO. - c/o Matthew J. Cronin, Esq. , 1539
Franklin Avenue, Mineola, New York 11501.
NO. 49 - DAYSMAN AND NAN MORRIS, Southold, New York.
NO. 50 - DAYSMAN AND NAN MORRIS, Southold, New York.
NO. 51 -ALAN A. CARDINALE c/o Hyman & Hyman, P.C. 1050 Franklin
Avenue, Garden City, New York 11530
NO. 52 -THE SOUTHLAND CORP. , 2828 N. HAskell, Dallas, Taxas 75204.
NO. 53 - ALFRED J. BARTOSIEWICZ and JOAN BARTOSIEWICZ, Box 169,
Soundview Avenue, Southold, New York 11971
NO. 54 - EDWARD MAGUIRE, 338, 74th Street, Brooklyn, New York 11209 .
NO. 55 - MARVIN & LILLIAN QUALLS, Box 115, Laurel, New York 11948.
NO. 56 - STEPHEN & ELLA SCHMIDT, 340 Bay Haven Lane, Southold, New
York 11971.
NO. 57 - HANS H. and FRANCOISE A. REIGER, Orient, New York 11957
NO. 58 - MARJORIE NEZIN, 487 Guy Lombardo .Avenue, Freeport, NY
11520.
NO. 65 - THE HARRY MITCHELL FAMILY - c/o George C. Stankevich, Esq.
Horton' s Lane, Southold, New York 11971
GO OF SOUTHOLD
rievance Day - Page 109
NO. 59 - GERARD H. EGGER, 2000 Pequash Avenue, Cutchogue, New
York 11935.
NO. 60 - SALVATORE & MARIA C. IANNOLA, 194 Arlington Street,
Mineola, New York 11501.
NO. 61 - STRONG OIL COMPANY, INC. , P. 0. Box 277, Water Mill,
New York 11976.
NO. 62 - STRONG OIL COMPANY, P. 0. Box 277, Water Mill, New
York 11976.
The meeting was seclared closed by Chairman Manarel at 9: 30 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
�BABETTE CORNINE
Secretary
}