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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987 FROM: Board of Assessment Review TO: Town Clerk RE: REPORT - BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW - TAX YEAR 19�/�. DATE: Attached herewith please find for public filing in yout office, the complete file covering the public hearing (s) of the Board of Assessment Review, together with changes ordered by this Board to the assessment roll, Assessors ' acknowledgment, etc. The duties of the Board of Assessment Review for the grievance period covering the 19S7jfj/assessment roll are comple7<�I)j V0�/J, o/K _ _ �C ' hairmar. Member Member Memb 1 em rZ er Form BAR-4 IED STATE OF NEWXqRK COUNTY OFj ss: TOWN OF The undersigned, being duly sworn do severally depose and say that deponents are members of the Board of Assessment Review; that deponents have read the foregoing and know the contents thereof; and the matters set forth are true to the best of the deponents ' knowledge. Sworn to before me thisAb�_day of wt,� , 19 • ILuA�E11!� 1. t. Eft Notary Pu is airman Me r Mem er Me e Vember R.P.T.S.A. - 200 - 4/72 BAR-2 - Page 2 of 2 - FROM: Board of Assessment Review, Special Meeting TO: Town Assessor RE: ORDER FOR CHANGE IN FINAL ASSESSMENT ROLL DATE: AP t1- . q�'J . The Board of Assessment Review for the Town of �r1 /c� , has duly met to hear petitions on the final town assessment roll for the tax year as prescribed by law. The Board, having duly convened, has considered each petition for. the tax year indicated, as filed with this Board, as prescribed by law. A majority of the Board had determined that all of the changes indicated on the attached page(s) will be .made on the assessment roll by the Assessor. (BA-R-2-Part rr) Total number of petitions submitted by assessor - � Total number of reductions in assessment Total number of increases in assessment - Total number of petitions without a change - (Q NOW, THEREFORE, the Board of Assessment Review hereby orders the assessor or board of assessors to make all changes in assessments. as determined by the Board of Assessment Review on the final assessment roll of the Town of , for the tax year 19 ,, in conformance with this order. BAR-2-Page 1 of 2 ` FINAL ASSESSMENT ROLL = YEAR' • TOWN OF ASSESSMENT ROLL ASSESSMENT ASSESSMENT 'EM NUMBER OWNER DESCRIPTION FROM TO -73 i, AA K: . n /Poo-`�f-/-30 9,evc firm f fi f-v h/ / /—/ QoD ro'�J-o —y- // �o�rN �• �e Dvh AKis r foo C Od Iva o% —/V- l' 37. 3 7c /u/, /ov 3, voa /60 �j,7} - 3�" / MAR�¢Fl rz �SI o c• /or. Al 97- J-- v /ltir, All L.Lf.✓ If C- /.POIL, �0 7-11(l A, III-ex/=.2i; 4,N 8,:5,-,e4 ,7A4,v �UaD -l•V' ,2-,� Z.4,v Q F_i=F��� /JidJil'as i('.�. .�- '�' �• .r -v(,.;�.E �` Mae ¢p-„/ Jc,f�,E6 � /L! �. VNs xr, Ca �. lOv/- y-y--7 Lar All J. .rr //tz 4--C. /00 - x!D -.l' 64A„e of . • fey . FINAL ASSESSMENT ROLL'— YEAR 1g/7/ O a TOWN OF ASSESSMENT ROLL ASSESSMENT ASSESSMENT 'EM NUMBER OWNER DESCRIPTION FROM TO /d - -7 /�.a�a,/ar_"L�Cb �/laJ r� • . . , . .. . 3� '�oa'a ' 30, �o 0 /naa -H�f -L�.v .�e,e o rk .ry b,cz- �ti• C� ` rV of 2 10 G foo /Ac• /1�•C� IA-_� �.TF/Ii?idlfJ /Au 4-f/4L A<llcl /TL- l_� �0/faJ �.vlz/t•/IPI.jnJ ILC. � /(/•`r /000.rYv'3-�0 e c2fAi -S,LAAlJP4L�3 4'�% 2 ©v!zA5t_,F,4tttvA,;, .c.� /;?�A X M. !�L �..v v�OT�f ld �I/tf' Idti 7' ��/O(/Tli/L9 C-4 i2� C r 'w t7A'K �l 7, l`t`_y �I'/v.�2J i��=/T���t ll�c. /✓�G BOARD REVIEW Telephone 516 - 765-1937 p Sou �11. 971 Sept . 9, 1987 Special Meeting of Board of Assessment Review Present : S. Markel C. Bolger E. Radford W. Weinheimer Meeting called to order 9am. The following applicants cases were received: 1. Lester Hubbard Box 1062 Mattituck, NY 11952 Applicant applied for a reduction of assessment of a swimming pool for medical reasons. Board members pointed out the fact , it could not be used year round and probably was not restricted to the use of the medically affected person only. Decision of Board - Denied 2. Thomas P McGunnigle 30695 County Rd 48 Peconic, NY 11958 Upon review of this situation the board decided in favor because of the unique nature and the supporting evidence furnished by the applicant which is on file. Decision of Board - Approved There being no further business, meeting adjourned at loam. Sam Markel Chairman SM/cg _n Page 1 2 3 4 Hearing held by and before the TOWN OF SOUTHOLD 5 BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW on GRIEVANCE DAY, 6 July 21, 1987 at 9:00 A.M. , at Town Hall, Main 7 Road, Southold, New York, pursuant to Notice of 8 Hearing, and before Donna M. Palmer, a Notary 9 Public of the State of New York. 10 11 z-- 12 13 14 GRIEVANCE BOARD MEMBERS 15 SAM MARKEL, Chairman 16 WILLIAM WEINHEIMER CAROL BOLGER 17 ERNEST RADFORD SAM MANAREL 18 19 20 ASSESSORS 21 CHARLES WATTS SCOTT HARRIS 22 FREDERICK GORDON 23 r .,. 24 1W 25 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7363 Page 2 1 GRIEVANTS 2 3 1. BECKY JOHNSTON 4 2. NORMAN MC CULLOUGH 5 3. LESTER HUBBARD, SR. 6 4. LAWRENCE W. CURRIE 7 5. BENSON SHALETTE 8 6. JOHN A. SCOURAKIS and STELLE SCOURAKIS 9 7 . DORIS SONNER 10 8. THOMAS P. MC GUNNIGLE 11 9. PETER and CHRYSELLEN BOUZIOTIS 12 10 . MAR LAKE ASSOCIATES 13 11. MAR. LAKE ASSOCIATES 14 12. KING KULLEN GROCERY CO. , INC. , #3 15 13 . ALAN A. CARDINALE 16 14 . ROBERT and NANCY BERTORELLO 17 15. THOMAS and SUSAN TOMASELLI 18 16. ANTHONY PIRRERA 19 17. FRANK B. ZIMMER 20 18. DAN and RACHEL KORAN 21 19 . SATTERLY ESTATE, RUTH L. 22 20. HARVEY and WIFE BAGSHAW, JR. 23 21. ANN BERRYMAN 24 22. ZAN DIAKOS and WIFE 25 23. EUGENE and MARYANNE SOKELSKY f'�'ta..► A49 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7983 Page 3 1 GRIEVANTS: [CONTINUING] . 2 24 . NEW YORK TELEPHONE COMPANY 3 25 . 235 MILL STREET, INC. 4 26. THE BANK OF NEW YOR 5 27. EMMANUEL KONTAKOSTA 6 28. THE 70 MARION ASSOCIATES and STALLER ASSOCIATES 7 29. DOROTHY SNYDER 8 30. GUSMAN REALTY CORP. 9 31. L&R VINEYARDS ASSOCIATES 10 32 . L&R VINEYARDS ASSOCIATES 11 33. EMMANUEL KONTAKOSTA 12 34 . SOUTHOLD VENTURES, INC. 13 35 . FOOD ENTERPRISES, d/b/a THE BEACHCOMBER MOTEL 14 36. POND ENTERPRISES, d/b/a THE BEACHCOMBER MOTEL 15 37. VANTAGE PETROLEUM CORP. 16 38. BENJAMIN KASPER 17 39. JOHN' S ENTERPRISES, INC. 18 40. HODOR-STALLER & KASPAN 19 41. DANIEL C. MOONEY and 14AUREEN M. MOONEY 20 42. NEW YORK TEELPHONE COMPANY 21 43. FRANK M. FLYNN 22 44. THE SOUTHLAND CORP . 23 45. NEW YORK TELEPHONE COMPANY 24 46. NEW YORK TELEPHONE COMPANY 25 47. NEW YORK TELEPHONE COMPANY 114, A.&/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 3a 1 GRIEVANTS: [CONTINUING] 2 48. RIVERSIDE HOMES, INC. 3 49 . RIVERSIDE HOMES, INC. 4 50. RIVERSIDE HOMES, INC. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2253 692.7383 Page 4 1 [THE HEARING WAS CONVENED AT 9 :00 A.M. ] 2 3 MR. MARKEL: We will call the Board to order and 4 Ernie, would you please do the honors? 5 MR. RADFORD: Yes . Do we need the lady' s name? 6 MR. MARKEL: Yes. 7 Do we have an application here? 8 MS. JOHNSTON: Sure. I just kind of stapled 9 everything together there . 10 MR. MARKEL: Yes, but this is not -- oh, here, we 11 are. 12 [WHEREUPON BECKY JOHNSTON WAS DULY SWORN 13 BY ERNEST RADFORD. ) 14 MS . JOHNSTON• Becky Johnston B-E- - - Y 15 J-O-H-N-S-T-O-N. 16 MR. MARKEL: Now, would you like to state your 17 case? 18 MS. JOHNSTON: Okay. I had described it in this 19 letter that I had written. I 've owned this 20 property since February, 1985, and there 's been 21 a right of way problem on it since March 7, 22 1986. 23 I have not had access or been able 24 to use the property. My access was blocked by 25 the people that live next door to me. They're ww., 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 117A3 421-2235 692-7383 Page 5 1 the Bocina family. And, the matter has been 2 in litigation . My ingress and egress to the 3 property was insured by the Chicago Title 4 Insurance Company, and it turned out after they 5 had done some research, that in fact no 6 deeded right of way existed, two hundred and 7 fifty feet short of my property. 8 So, it ' s been in court. There was an 9 agreement reached between Mrs. Jenny Bocina 10 and the Chicago Title Insurance Company last 11 December , but to this date, she has not signed 12 it. The agreement was that the Chicago Title 13 Insurance Company would pay her, pay the Bocina 14 family, twenty-two thousand five hundred 15 dollars for this two hundred and fifty foot 16 strip of right of way, and they haven't done 17 it. 18 And I have just learned that there' s 19 a court hearing. We 've been waiting for a 20 court date, and there ' s supposed to be a court 21 hearing this Friday -- not a hearing, it' s a 22 conference. 23 And if the thing doesn't get resolved 24 as of this Friday, it will go on into a trial 25 and I guess they' ll try the issues on a y 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2253 692-7393 Page 6 1 prescriptive type of basis or something or 2 other -- I don 't know what. But anyway, it' s 3 been sixteen months I haven't had use of the 4 property. Last year, I paid nineteen hundred 5 or almost two thousand dollars in property 6 taxes, and I feel that my assessment should be 7 reduced until this matter is settled. 8 I didn't quite know what to put in 9 there in terms of what it should be priced at 10 or assessed at. But, I haven 't had any use 11 of the property. It ' s not as good as farmland 12 at this point to me. . 13 MR. MARKEL: Just let me look at this. 14 MS. JOHNSTON: I also have some pictures, if you're 15 interested. 16 MR. MARKEL: Just let me see this. I believe we 17 have it. 18 MS . JOHNSTON: Oh, you have it? 19 MR. MARKEL: We have the pictures of the houses 20 here. 21 MS. JOHNSTON: I have a picture of the farmers, the 22 potato truck blocking the driveway. The Bocinas 23 put a .potato truck in the road and blocked my 24 access. If you're interested in seeing those 25ictures, I brought some along. Also, I have P 9 9 9 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 7 1 some letters from my lawyers. 2 MR. MANAREL: Am I to understand if you had the 3 right of way granted to you today, would you be 4 making this grievance? 5 MS . JOHNSTON: Well, I haven't had the use of the 6 property. 7 MR. MANAREL: No, that's not my question. The 8 question is suppose the court decided this 9 morning that that right of way is yours, and 10 it' s been granted to you. 11 MS. JOHNSTON: Right. 12 MR. MANAREL: Would you be making this grievance? . 13 MS. JOHNSTON: Good question. I guess I would. Since 14 I haven 't had use of the property for this 15 period of time, I mean, I think there should 16 be some -- I never knew last year that there 17 was any possibility of contesting the taxes on 18 the property. And this whole thing has cost me; 19 I mean, I don 't even know what it cost me. 20 MR. RADFORD: Did you have this house built yourself? 21 MS. JOHNSTON: No, I bought the property. It was a 22 small house. It was a very old house. And 23 basically, it' s been renovated. The foundation 24 exists, and it' s been renovated and the front 25 part, the house -- let me show you. The siding ww.., fL41 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2235 692.7383 Page 8 1 is on, the roof is on, the inside is not done, 2 and the front stoop here has to go on the house. 3 MS. BOLGER: The people that resided in the house 4 before you purchased it, they had a right of 5 way to it, or what? 6 MS. JOHNSTON: They used it. They owned the house 7 for something like forty years, and they went 8 in and out, and they guaranteed it. In my 9 contract of sale, they guaranteed the ingress 10 and egress and we have since questioned whether 11 that was a true statement or not. 12 I mean, there' s a lot that' s going to 13 be going on in relation to them, ultimately. 14 MR. WEINHEIMER: I have one question. When these 15 contractors were making the renovations, how 16 did they get access to do it? 17 MS . JOHNSTON: They allowed us to close up the house 18 with great difficulty. But, they allowed me 19 to put a roof on. For awhile, the house existed 20 without any roof and without any siding on 21 it. 22 And, they did allow that, and then 23 there was, at one point, they allowed me to 24 get in there and said, "You can go ahead and 25 build, " and then they said, "We're going to 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7363 Page 9 1 block you off by a potato truck . And it's been 2 a nightmare . It' s been like a cat with a 3 mouse is what it' s been like. 4 MR. MARKEL: Ms. Johnston, the assessor just 5 informed me that this, in fact, as of now, is a 6 partial assessment, and it 's not a finished 7 assessment. Do you realize that? 8 In other words, they have not finalize 9 your assessment as of this date. Your assessment 10 that they've given you is for a partial, okay? 11 Now, I know you have no use of the 12 property . 13 MS. JOHNSTON: For sixteen months. Since March 17, 14 1986 St. Patrick' s Da 1986 . • Y. 15 MR. MARKEL: Well, as far as the past is gone, we 16 can do nothing about that. 17 MS . JOHNSTON: I gather . I just thought I would put 18 it in. I couldn't resist. 19 MR. MARKEL: We can only do it for the future. 20 MS. JOHNSTON: Right. 21 MR. MARKEL: The coming tax year. 22 MS. JOHNSTON: Right. 23 MR. MARKEL: Well, has anybody got any questions 24 on this? • 25 MR. RADFORD: Who owns this property? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 10 1 MS . JOHNSTON: Some people by the name of Parr owned 2 the property for forty years . It was in their 3 family, and what happened was Mr. Parr died, 4 leaving Mrs. Parr, and they were elderly, and 5 they sold the property. And they used it for 6 summers and as the case went, it was brought 7 to ligitation in the courts last July by 8 the Chicago Title Insurance Company, and what 9 happened was the judge initially issued a 10 Temporary Restraining Order, and then after 11 reviewing the case, they took the Temporary 12 Restraining Order off, the order off, because 13 as I understand it, I think it was one person' s 14 word against another' s like the farmer said 15 they had given permission, that they got to 16 the house by permission, so that it was something , 17 essentially, I guess, that was renewed every i8 year. 19 And the Parrs said that they always 20 had access to it, but the fact is they only 21 used the house in the summer. Now, I guess 22 these things would have to be actually tried, 23 and I have learned a lot about descriptive 24 easements, and that kind of stuff, and it's 25 not something that you can just say, "I 've gotte 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2 ¢S 692.7383 Page 11 1 in there for over sixty years," or for forty 2 years , you have to go in and prove it if you 3 have a problem like this. And, there was no 4 deeded right of way, two hundred and fifty 5 feet short of the property. I talked to Jack 6 Sherwood about it, and he thought he had found 7 something recently that showed I had a deeded g right of way, which I would have been very 9 pleased about, but unfortunately, it looked 10 like it wasn' t, and I think you have all the 11 deeds available to you. 12 MR. MARKEL: I think the wisest thing you ever 13 did was getting title insurance. MS. JOHNSTON: Well I never would have bought ht the g 15 property without title insurance. But, do you 16 know what that means? It means so little. 17 MR. MARKEL: Well, you have recourse to the Chicago lg Title. 19 MS. JOHNSTON: I don 't know if I 'm going to be able 20 to sue them or if they're going to give me any 21 kind of settlement. I think my only recourse 22 is against the people that sold it to me, but I 23 don 't know. I 've been in such a horrible state. 24 MR. MARKEL: Well, I' ll tell you what. We don't 25 make any decisions today. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 692.7383 Page 12 1 MS . JOHNSTON: Right. 2 MR. MARKEL: We 'll take this under advisement, of 3 course, and if the matter is settled prior to 4 our decision, then it will become a moot 5 question. Otherwise, we will render a decision 6 at that time, and advise you of it. And, I want 7 to thank you very much for coming. 8 MS . JOHNSTON: I thank you very much for your time. 9 MR. MARKEL: We ' ll really give it every 10 consideration, you can rest assured about that. 11 MS. JOHNSTON: Thank you. 12 Do you need to keep that? 13 MR. MARKEL: Yes . This becomes a matter of record 14 for our Board now. 15 MS . JOHNSTON: I had filed that. If it ' s possible 16 just to send me a Xerox? 17 MR. MARKEL: If they don 't have it, we ' ll make 18 copies of it. 19 MS. JOHNSTON: If you want to just send it to me -- 20 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] No, no. I would rather 21 you take the original. 22 MS. JOHNSTON: Because you have the original, and 23 actually, I am looking at -- 24 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] Well, I have to see it 25 anyhow to make sure that it' s filled out wd"-- A"41 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 13 1 correctly. 2 MS. JOHNSTON: I hope I signed it, because I realize 3 my Xerox copy wasn 't signed on this. 4 MR. MARKEL: We ' ll get you to sign this before you 5 leave; otherwise, we can throw it out, and you 6 have no case at all . 7 MS. JOHNSTON: I should wait here? 8 MR. MARKEL: Oh, yes. 9 MS. BOLGER: It won 't take that long. 10 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 11 9 : 25 A.M. NORMAN MC CULLOUGH WAS DULY SWORN 12 BY ERNEST RADFORD. ) 13 MR. MARKEL: You' re making this claim, 14 Mr. McCullough, upon the, fact that you think 15 properties in the area are not assessed at 16 the same rate? 17 MR. MC CULLOUGH: Correct. 18 MR. MARKEL: Can I have some comparative cards 19 on Main Street, Greenport, please? 20 MR. MC CULLOUGH: No, no. That 's not the property. 21 The property is on Cox' s Lane in Cutchogue, 22 and on the last sheet in there, I have some 23 examples of what properties in that neighborhood 24 have sold for. • 25 MR. MARKEL: I want to see the cards. I 'm glad you 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421.2235 692.7383 Page 14 1 did half of the work for us. 2 MR. MC CULLOUGH: I thought it would be a good idea 3 to find out about it, so at least I had some 4 support. 5 MR. MARKEL: I guess this is bare land we're 6 talking about? 7 MR. RADFORD: Some grievance on the basis of the 8 land, assessment on the land. 9 MR. MC CULLOUGH: The assessment in relation to the 10 actual value of the land. The actual value of 11 that land is substantially lower than the value 12 of some of the land in the area, because it' s 13 situated directly across the street from the 14 general industrial zoning on the west side 15 of Cox' s Lane. And I found out just how much 16 less it was worth when we tried to sell the 17 portion of that a few months ago. 18 The prices of similar and smaller lots 19 are quite a bit higher than what we got for 20 ours and of course, with a two-acre lot, the 21 assessment is higher than a lot of one-acre 22 lots. 23 MR. RADFORD: This is zoned as residential? 24 MR. MC CULLOUGH: It' s residential land, but it 's the 25 first residential land next to the industrial 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 15 1 zone. 2 MR. MARKEL: Mr. McCullough, where did you come 3 up with this figure of 1.67 of full value? 4 MR. MC CULLOUGH: What I did when I took the ratio of 5 the average assessment of my comparison lots, 6 and compared that to the prices, the selling 7 prices, of those several other lots that I used 8 as examples, so I just divided the average 9 assessment by the average price of those lots , 10 then my assessment by the price of my lot. 11 I have got all the numbers, I believe, 12 on the last page of that, the last handwritten 13 page. 14 MR. MANAREL: I have one here from Duck Pond Road 15 in Cutchogue, but one is nine point or point 16 nine two-eighths of an acre, and Mr. McCullough' 17 is 1 .989 acres. So, you can hardly compare the 18 size. 19 MR. MC CULLOUGH: My comparison was not based on the 20 size so much as the actual value of the land, 21 if you were to try and sell it . Because, those 22 one-acre lots there did in fact sell for 23 substantially more than my lot is worth. 24 MR. MARKEL: Mr. McCullough, did you have an 25 appraisal made? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 16 1 MR. MC CULLOUGH: The way I established the value was 2 to -- I ' ll give you the whole story from the 3 beginning. Originally, my lot was a portion of 4 a three-lot subdivision on six acres. A friend 5 of mine and I bought the six acres. We 6 subdivided it with the intention of selling 7 one lot and each of us keeping one to build on. 8 So when we finally had the subdivision 9 finalized, we offered one lot for sale, any of 10 the three, and we would keep the other two. 11 So this was the second week of 12 November . when we listed it in the local paper, • 13 and then, of course, all the realtors picked 14 up on that and we listed it with at least a 15 dozen realtors. I have a list of the realtors 16 with whom we listed it . We offered it 17 originally for a price of seventy thousand 18 dollars, to us, so the realtors put it on the 19 market for anywhere from seventy-three five to 20 about seventy-seven. 21 Over the course of the next four 22 months, several people came and looked at it. 23 People wanted to know what was going on across 24 the street because they see businesses there , 25 there' s a landscaper, a builder, a warehouse 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 17 1 and they find out the land across the road is 2 zoned general industrial and then they were 3 afraid to buy it because they didn' t know what 4 type of neighbors they would have there. 5 I 'm a local guy, and I know the 6 businesses that are there; it doesn't offend me 7 living across the street from the landscaper or 8 builder. But a lot of people are leery so they 9 wouldn't buy it at seventy thousand dollars. 10 And we did find out after four months 11 of several people looking at it, selling it for 12 fifty-six thousand because based on that, I 'm 13 saying my lot is worth fifty-six thousand 1 dollars because we r did make a honest, 4 Bally n es , 15 sincere effort to sell it, and we got as much as 16 we could get for it. 17 And now those other lots .I 've given 18 to you for comparison, I 've taken the sales 19 prices for those, the actual closing prices that 20 I got from realtors are within the last four 21 month period, and the lowest of those is fifty- 22 two thousand dollars for a one-acre lot, which 23 is assessed, naturally, quite a bit lower than 24 my two-acre lots on up to a high of a hundred 25 seven thousand dollars for another two-acre lot. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-1253 692.7383 Page 18 1 So, the actual value of the land 2 is decreased substantially by its proximity to 3 the industrially zoned land across the street. 4 And that 's the basis for my grievance. 5 MR. MARKEL: Do you have any questions? 6 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 7 MR. MANAREL: I have none. 8 MR. MARKEL: Ernie? 9 MR. RADFORD: No. 10 MR. MARKEL: Mr. McCullough , although we do not 11 make any decisions today, we will in the near 12 future sit down and examine all the facts and 13 figures again, and make a decision, and then we 14 will notify you b mail of that decision. Y 15 MR. MC CULLOUGH: Okay. 16 MR. MARKEL: And we thank you very much for coming 17 in. 18 MR. MC CULLOUGH: Thank you for taking the time to 19 hear this. 20 MR. MARKE: That 's what we're here for. 21 MR. MC CULLOUGH: I hope I 've got everything in there 22 clearly enough. 23 MR. MARKEL: I 'm sure we will go over itingreat 24 detail. 25 MR. MC CULLOUGH: All that is readily verifiable, also. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 19 1 The recent transfers, my source, was just some 2 local people that are involved in real estate. 3 I called up and said, "What have you had move 4 in that area in the recent past, and how much 5 did you sell it for, " and then I went and got 6 the assessments on those from the tax roll here. 7 Just incidentally, that is every 8 example that I can come up with in Southold Town. 9 I didn 't delete anything. I mean, I didn't just 10 take the ones -- 11 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] You didn't pick -- 12 MS. BOLGER: [INTERPOSING] The ones that suited 13 you best? 14 MR. MC CULLOUGH: It didn't really matter because they 15 all suited me best. 16 MS. BOLGER: Okay. Thank you very much. 17 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 18 9: 40 A.M. LESTER HUBBARD, SR. WAS DULY SWORN 19 BY ERNEST RADFORD. ] 20 MR. MARKEL: Mr. Hubbard, I see all we have on this 21 form is your signature on the back and a 22 description on the front. Now, in order to 23 know what you want, we have to have something 24 filled out here. Before you begin, I want to 25 tell you that the assessors over in that office 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 4,21-2235 692-7383 Page 20 1 are required to give you any help you need in 2 filling out this form. 3 MR. HUBBARD: Well, I don't think I have to fill it 4 out because I won this last year on the 5 swimming pool, because my wife is handicapped. 6 MR. MARKEL: We reduced you last year? 7 MR. HUBBARD: And they're doing the same thing this 8 year. 9 MR. MARKEL: Yes , but Mr. Hubbard, we must have 10 the form filled out. 11 MR. HUBBARD: Should I fill it out now? 12 MR. MARKEL: Absolutely. 13 MR. HUBBARD: Because I have a doctor' s appointment 14 and I can 't wait. 15 MR. MARKEL: We must have the form filled out 16 before we can consider it. 17 We can 't fill the form out for you, 18 but the assessors can help you fill it out. 19 MR. HUBBARD: Well, I can't wait, and I can't make 20 it tonight. I have two doctors ' appointments. 21 MR. MARKEL: Well, we have to go by the law. 22 MR. HUBBARD: Well, I don't even know where to put 23 it in. I asked them, and they said all you have 24 to do is submit this . 25 Mr. Watts, he told me that you people 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 21 1 had no right to lower this assessed valuation 2 because my wife is disabled. 3 MR. MARKEL: Let me explain something to you, 4 Mr. Watts can only assess the property. He 5 cannot tell us what to do. Scott, would you 6 please help Mr. Hubbard fill out this form? 7 Just step over there for a minute and 8 do that. 9 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS RECESSED AND THEN 10 RESUMED. ] 11 MR. MARKEL: Scott, we also need the figure what 12 he would like this reduced to, please. 13 MR. HUBBARD: Sorry to keep you waiting. g 14 9 we Have. MR. MARKEL: All right. of the form 15 properly filled out? 16 MR. HUBBARD: Yes , I think so. 17 MR. MARKEL: Now, Mr. Hubbard, in view of the fact 18 that you're in such a rush to get out of here, 19 we don 't render any decision today anyhow. 20 MR. HUBBARD: Yes, I know that. 21 MR. MARKEL: It will be done on Decision Day. 22 And since I 'm sure that we 're very familiar with 23 this case, I suggest that we just let it go at 24 that, and you'll get our results on Decision • 25 Day. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.22'33 692.7383 Page 22 1 MR. HUBBARD: Okay. 2 MR. MARKEL: Unless you want to make a statement. 3 MR. HUBBARD: No. The only statement I wanted to 4 make, I don 't know why I 'm here if you approved 5 it once. Do you have to do it every year? 6 MR. MARKEL: I will tell you something. We are 7 an absolute separate entity from the Assessor' s 8 Office, from the Supervisor ' s Office, from all 9 offices of the Town, County, et cetera. 10 The only ones we answer to is the 11 Supreme Court of the State of New York. 12 MR. HUBBARD: Okay. Thank you. 13 MR. MARKEL: Okay? 14 MR. HUBBARD: Because she needs the pool for her 15 therapy. 16 MR. MARKEL: And that' s why you are able to come 17 before us. 18 MR. HUBBARD: And she gets her therapy twice a week. 19 MR. MARKEL: We took care of this last year, and 20 you will receive our decision by mail. 21 MR. HUBBARD: Okay. Thank you. 22 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 23 9: 50 A.M. LAWRENCE W. CURRIE WAS DULY SWORN BY 24 ERNEST RADFORD. ] 25 MR. MARKEL: Mr. Currie, let me examine your ,kI4, A4/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2235 682.7363 Page 23 1 application. 2 MR. CURRIE: Actually, I have two there. 3 MR. MARKEL: Okay. We ' ll take one at a time. 4 MR. CURRIE: One is for my son. 5 MR. MARKEL: This one is in order. And the 6 grounds for the complaint is this property is 7 a remnant of a mini-subdivision approved by 8 the Zoning Board of Appeals on April 12, 1985, 9 two tax units were divided to form three tax 10 units , one of the original units had a variance 11 allowing a second dwelling. 12 The value of these two lots , before 13 April 12 , 1985 , was as follows, and it goes 14 on tog ive us the values. 15 And after subdivision, the assessment 16 remained the same; is that right? 17 MR. CURREI : The land part. 18 MR. MARKEL: The land part remained the same? 19 MR. CURRIE: I 'm not sure which one you're looking 20 at there. 21 MR. MARKEL: You have the before subdivision here, 22 and you have assessed four thousand, and you have 23 it after subdivision, assessed four thousand. 24 MR. CURRIE: Right. 25 MR. MARKEL: Before it was 6 .26 acres. Now it' s 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2285 692.7383 Page 24 1 . 27 acres. 2 MR. CURRIE: After subdivision, it only had street 3 fronts. Before subdivision, it had lake fronts. 4 MR. MARKEL: Okay. The only way we can ascertain-- 5 MR. CURRIE: [INTERPOSING] It ' s a much smaller, 6 piece now. 7 MR. MARKEL: Did you do the subdivision? Was it 8 your subdivision? 9 MR. CURRIE: Yes . 10 MR. MARKEL: You owned the entire large property? 11 MR. CURRIE: Yes. 12 MR. MARKEL: And you broke it into the smaller 13 parcels? 14 MR. CURRIE: Right. 15 MR. MARKEL: Okay. 16 MR. CURRIE: I 'm paying the same taxes for a smaller 17 piece of land, without any lakefront. 18 MR. MARKEL: Did you sell any of the other 19 properties? 20 MR. CURRIE: No. 21 MR. MARKEL: You hold them all? 22 MR. CURRIE: Well, I gave , as a gift to my son, 23 one property. 24 MR. MARKEL: When you gave him that gift, what 25 value did you set on it for tax purposes? Was i 114, fL 4/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 25 1 under twenty thousand dollars that you gave him 2 a gift for, or did you give it to him over 3 several years? 4 MR. CURRIE: In there I said I gave it to him 5 for nothing, free. But, I have an appraisal 6 that I had made at the time, the appraisal 7 said the land was worth fifty thousand dollars. 8 MR. MARKEL: The appraiser? 9 Who was the appraiser, sir? 10 MR. CURRIE: Reginald Hudson. 11 MR. MARKEL: Reggie Hudson? He appraised it at 12 fifty thousand dollars? 13 MR. CURRIE: Yes. 14 MR. MARKEL: In effect, this second one is -- 15 MR. CURRIE: [INTERPOSING] Part of the same deal. 16 MR. MARKEL: [CONTINUING] -- part of the same 17 deal? 18 MR. CURRIE: Right. 19 MR. MARKEL: Okay. 20 MR. CURRIE: I think the waterfront is taxed higher 21 than the neighboring properties. And I gave 22 you some examples in the summary of my complaint. 23 MS. BOLGER: Do you want to call this 4A and 4B 24 because it has two applications? 25 MR. MARKEL: No, we're going to make it 4 and 5. //06k,-t, A.&V 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 26 1 MR. CURRIE: One is a junior, my son. 2 MS. BOLGER: The second one is the junior? 3 MR. MARKEL: The second one would be the junior. 4 But you're appearing for him? 5 MR. CURRIE: Yes. 6 MR. MARKEL: Did he sign this as junior? 7 MR. CURRIE: No, I couldn't get his signature on 8 it. 9 MR. MARKEL: You signed this as senior? 10 By rights, Mr. Currie, this should be 11 signed by your son. 12 MR. CURRIE: Is there any way I can do it? 13 MR. MARKEL: Well, maybe you can call him up. MR CURRIE: He 's in California. 14 15 MR. MARKEL: I really can 't suggest how you can 16 do it, sir. 17 MR. CURRIE: I didn't want to sign for him. That 18 wouldn't be legitimate. 19 MR. MARKEL: By law, we must have an original 20 signature on here, and you may appear for him, 21 and you've completed that portion of the 22 certification correctly. I 'm afraid we ' ll take 23 this under consideration, but I ' ll have to 24 look up the law and follow the law according 25 to it. fL41 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2263 692.7383 Page 27 1 MR. CURRIE: I spoke to him on the phone about it, 2 and he ' s very appreciative of me trying to do it, 3 but I have no way of getting his signature. 4 MR. MARKEL: Unfortunately, that might not be 5 acceptable. But leave the application in. 6 We' ll see; we' ll see what can be done. I 'll 7 look it up. 8 MR. CURRIE: I can get his signature after the 9 fact of your decision, too. 10 MR. MARKEL: Hold on a minute. 11 MRS . CURRIE: Sir, can I say something? 12 MR. MARKEL: Why not? 13 MRS. CURRIE: I 'm a part of the family. • 14 MR. MARKEL: You have to be sworn in We ' ll swear 15 you in. You can say anything you want. 16 [WHEREUPON ALICE CURRIE WAS DULY SWORN BY 17 ERNEST RADFORD. ) 18 MRS. CURRIE: Our son is a resident of California, 19 and when we found out there was going to be 20 a grievance, we had spoken to him and he 21 said he would appreciate anything that we could 22 do. Of course, there is a distance, of course, 23 and the only reason we gave him the property, 24 as a gift, is we wanted to give it to him while 25 we were still living, rather than wait until we d, A &i 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 28 1 were dead. That 's all I have to say. • 2 MR. MANAREL: May I make a suggestion? 3 MR. MARKEL: Yes. 4 MR. MANAREL: Did you find it? 5 MR. MARKEL: I 'm reading it right now. 6 MR. MANAREL: I was going to say after the meeting, 7 we could call the County, and get their counsel ' 8 opinion. 9 MR. MARKEL: I 'm sure that since Mr. Currie took 10 all the time to come down here, we can take a 11 little time to see if we can get the right 12 answer for him. Well, here it is. 13 The law requires complainant to 14 file a written statement, specifying the 15 respect in which the assessment complaint is 16 excessive, et cetera, et cetera. And it also 17 states that they have to certify that all 18 statements are true, et cetera. 19 I 'm trying to find one that's 20 applicable to this. It says complaints may be 21 filed by any person aggrieved by an assessment 22 that is generally an owner, a purchaser or a 23 tenant under a net lease. It may be made by 24 an aggrieved party or his attorney or 25 representative. However, if a complaint is made 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7363 Page 29 1 by a representative of the complainant, a 2 written authorization to allow the 3 representative to appear on behalf of the 4 complainant must be filled in on the 5 complainant' s form, and bear a date within the 6 same calendar year during which the complaint 7 is filed. 8 MR. CURRIE: There ' s no provision for getting his 9 signature? 10 MR. MARKEL: Yes. You have until nine o'clock 11 tonight unless we have a postponement or a 12 continuation, which I doubt very much. 13 I really see no possible way we can 14 act on this form without it being filed properly. 15 MR. CURRIE: Are you going to review the other one? 16 MR. MARKEL: We 're going to review yours, of 17 course. 18 MR. CURRIE: You're going to return this to me? 19 MR. MARKEL: But the son -- yes, we can return 20 this because we won't consider it without the 21 proper signature. 22 It 's not that we won't, it' s the law 23 that says that we can't. 24 MR. CURRIE: I could still come back next year, 25 though? Ww, A.4/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 A21-2255 692.7383 Page 30 1 MR. MARKEL: Absolutely. It won 't be retroactive, 2 though. 3 MR. CURRIE: None of this will be retroactive? 4 MR. MARKEL: No, sir. This one application for 5 your son, we'll have to turn back to you. 6 MR. CURRIE: All right. 7 MR. MARKEL: What you could have done prior to 8 this was mail it out to him, of course. 9 MR. CURRIE: I only started working on this a couple 10 of days ago. But there ' s not retroactivity? 11 MR. MARKEL: No. 12 MR. CURRIE: But you can let a thing drift by for a 13 couple of years, and then make a complaint? 14 MR. MARKEL: Absolutely. There' s no time limit 15 on your complaint. And this is off the record. 16 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 17 MR. MARKEL: And if you have any questions, while 18 you are looking at it, you can go ahead and ask 19 Mr. Currie. 20 And if we do deny you and you're 21 not satisfied with that decision, you do have 22 additional recourse, you know that? You can 23 take it to court. 24 MR. CURRIE: I think I saw that in the papers. 25 MR. MARKEL: I just wanted to let you know all the 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 41•?2b5 692.7383 Page 31 1 facts and figures. Do you have any questions 2 for Mr. Currie? 3 MR. RADFORD: No, not at present. 4 MR. MARKEL: Sam? 5 MR. MANAREL: No, I have none. 6 MR. MARKEL: Any questions, Bill? 7 MR. WETNHEIMER: No. 8 MR. MARKEL: Carol? 9 MS. BOLGER: No. 10 MR. MARKEL: All right. 11 Mr. Currie, like I said before , we ' ll 12 arrive at a decision and let you know. 13 MR. CURRIE: I wish the Board would consider the 14 fact that these two lots are almost identical, 15 and yet they're taxed different, in a different 16 way. 17 MR. MARKEL: Believe me, we' ll consider everything 18 about it. 19 Thank you very much for coming in, sir. 20 MR. CURRIE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 21 MR. MARKEL: We disregarded 5 completely, so this 22 is now 5, and the name is Benson Shalette. 23 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 24 10: 05 A.M. MRS . SHALETTE WAS DULY SWORN BY • 25 ERNEST RADFORD. ] 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2283 692-7383 Page 32 1 MR. MARKEL: Okay. As I understand it, you bought 2 this piece of property and it actually was 3 three lots; is that right? 4 MRS . SHALETTE: There was a subdivision in process. 5 MR. MARKEL: In process? 6 MRS . SHALETTE: It was never finalized. 7 MR. MARKEL: It hasn't been finalized to this date? 8 MRS. SHALETTE: No, and we 're asking that it not be 9 finalized. We're currently -- not here, but 10 we ' re asking for it to be put off because we 11 don 't want to break it up at this point. 12 Although we would like to have it standing for 13 the future, we don 't want to go ahead with it 14 at this point. 15 MR. MARKEL: I 'll just explain it to you. I guess 16 something else has been explained to you. 17 We have zoning laws in this Town -- 18 MRS . SHALETTE: [INTERPOSING] Yes . I'm aware of that. 19 MR. MARKEL: And if this piece of property has been 20 zoned previously, you will be allowed to sell it 21 as separate lots later on, but if you have it 22 in one piece in one name, that's the way it' s 23 going to be, and the only way you get relief is 24 to go back to the Board of Appeals. 25 But that 's not the case here. The case 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 491.8255 692.7383 Page 33 1 here now, as .I see it, is you bought this lot 2 and evidently, they raised your assessment; 3 is that correct? 4 MRS . SHALETTE: It was sold in three deeds. The 5 owner chose to do that. 6 MR. MARKEL: I realize that. That was smart becaus 7 he did sell- it as three separate lots. 8 That 's what I 'm trying to tell you. 9 So, in effect, you' re not looking for any 10 comparisons here? 11 MRS. SHALETTE: No. I 'm looking for things to be 12 as they were. 13 MR. MARKEL: You just want everything to remain 14 status quo until as of the date you bought it? 15 MRS. SHALETTE: Until, at some point, if it should be 16 subdivided, of course, at that point we would 17 be happy to pay the taxes, but within the next 18 couple of years, we don 't plan for it to be 19 subdivided. 20 MR. MARKEL: You know there' s no guarantee. How 21 long have you had the property? 22 MRS . SHALETTE: Two or three months. 23 MR. MARKEL: Two or three months? Well, generally 24 when the property changes hands , I guess the 25 assessor ' s do take a look at it, you know that? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2265 692-7383 Page 34 1 MRS. SHALETTE: Oh, that would be normal. 2 MR. MARKEL: Yes, that ' s a normal thing to happen. 3 MRS. SHALETTE: But that 's not what this is. 4 MR. MARKEL: The property might have been assessed 5 five years ago, prior to your buying it, you 6 see. So maybe it was a normal thing for this 7 to happen. 8 Scott, are you familiar with this? 9 MR. GORDON: I 'm familiar with it. Fred Gordon, 10 one of the assessors. 11 MR. MARKEL: Could you please tell me when the 12 last time this property was assessed? Do you 13 happen to know, looking at this? 14 MR. GORDON: I 'd like to explain what transpired 15 in this. As Mrs. Shalette mentioned, they bought 16 it in three pieces. 17 MR. RADFORD: In the same name? 18 MR. GORDON: No, one of them is in a different 19 name. 20 MRS . SHALETTE: The same person. 21 MR. GORDON: The same person with a TC Retirement 22 Trust. 23 MR. MARKEL: That 's the middle piece; right? 24 MR. GORDON: Yes . This formerly was one large 25 parcel. The former owner, a Mr. Lofrias, sold 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 35 1 it in three parcels . And from the deeds, we 2 found additional acreage that we did not 3 originally have on the assessment cards. 4 Some of the increase in assessment 5 reflects this additional acreage that we found. 6 MR. MARKEL: Is that all usable land, this 7 additional acreage that you found or was it 8 wetlands? 9 MR. GORDON: A large portion to the south, I would 10 classify as not usable. That portion is still 11 in Mr. Lofrias ' name. The three parcels that 12 we 're concerned with here, we consider buildable 13 lots, yes. One of them has a house on it now. 14 MR. MARKEL: Okay. Mr. Gordon is the assessment 15 in your estimation, the same as anybody else 16 in the area? 17 MR. GORDON: I would say it' s comparable, yes . 18 MR. MARKEL: And my last question was, prior to the 19 assessment on it right now, when was the last 20 time you assessed the property? 21 MR. GORDON: I might have it. 22 MR. MANAREL: It ' s on the card. 23 MR. MARKEL: I can't see it. That's why I 'm asking 24 you. The reproduction isn 't that good. 25 MR. GORDON: 1983 . 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 117A3 421.2255 692.7393 Page 36 1 MR. MARKEL: So it 's been four years? 2 Is there anything else you would like 3 to add? 4 MRS . SHALETTE: Since it is just one parcel, and I have 5 all these additional bills for the other two 6 parcels, which aren't really two additional 7 parcels because it's never been finalized, it 8 was never a legal subdivision. 9 MR. MARKEL: So you think that if it was one, 10 you should get one bill for it? 11 MRS. SHALETTE: Yes. 12 MR. MARKEL: But on this Town book, it' s listed as 13 three parcels. Is that right? 14 MR. GORDON: Yes, because we received three 15 separate deeds. 16 MRS. SHALETTE: But it 's not three separate building 17 lots because I don 't have a subdivision. I 18 don 't have a legal subdivision. 19 MR. MARKEL: Well, that would be a minor subdivision. 20 MRS . SHALETTE: But I don 't have a legal anything. .21 As it stands now, it' s just one building lot. 22 It never was finalized. It never happened. 23 MR. MANAREL: Excuse me. Could they possibly build 24 a house on each one of the three lots, assuming 25 that one lot does not have a house at the 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 37 1 present time? 2 MRS. SHALETTE: Not at this point. 3 MR. MARKEL: Sure, if they have three deeds. 4 MRS. SHALETTE: Not without the subdivision. 5 MR. GORDON: They are buildable lots . 6 MR. MANAREL: All three separately? 7 MR. GORDON: As to whether the Building Department 8 will give any building permits, based on the 9 fact that the minor subdivision has not 10 been approved by the Planning Board, I would 11 question that. 12 MR. MARKEL: Is the house on the lot in the 13 middle? 14 MRS . SHALETTE: It' s on the largest lot. 15 MR. MARKEL: On the largest lot; which would that 16 be, in the center of the two lots? 17 MRS . SHALETTE: Well, sort of. There ' s a long one, 18 and there are two small ones on either side. 19 MR. MARKEL: Well, I have no doubt from what you 20 described that you most probably would be 21 granted a permit to sell off the two other 22 pieces. 23 MRS . SHALETTE: Yes, but -- 24 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] But you're not going 25 to? /w &.&V 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 38 1 MRS . SHALETTE: We ' re not going to. 2 MR. MARKEL: I know. I 'm just thinking in my 3 mind. 4 MRS . SHALETTE: They wouldn' t give us the permission. 5 The problem was that in order to have a final 6 subdivision, they wanted us to put a large 7 road right through the property. This road 8 would go just behind the house, just behind the 9 swimming pool, and it would mean cutting down 10 an enormous amount of trees. It would look 11 terrible. 12 And since we didn 't want to sell off . 13 the house, we didn 't want to cut off the trees. 14 So then I went to a lawyer locally, and we asked 15 if we could please hold this thing in abeyance, 16 if we could put some sort of bond or something 17 so that if at such time we did want to sell it, 18 we could activate the subdivision, but for now, 19 just let it drop, and that 's where we are at the 20 present time . 21 I hope I 'm explaining it properly. 22 MR. MARKEL: I 'm with you. 23 MS. BOLGER: I just want to get it clear in my mind. 24 So actually, there is no subdivision in existence 25 now? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 39 1 MRS. SHALETTE: No. 2 MS . BOLGER: What was filed for a subdivision is 3 being dropped? 4 MRS . SHALETTE: Not dropped completely, but just sort 5 of held, if we can. 6 MR. MARKEL: Held in abeyance? 7 MRS . SHALETTE: We're asking permission to hold it 8 with a bond for a little while . We just moved 9 in. I don 't want to cut off the trees when I 10 don't want to sell the land. It 's so 11 destructive. And it' s so pretty, there' s so 12 many birds. • 13 MR. MARKEL: Do we have any more questions? 14 MR. MANARE L: No. 15 MR. MARKEL: Well, I ' ll tell you, this is going to 16 take a lot of real serious thought and looking 17 into. 18 MRS . SHALETTE: I understand. 19 MR. MARKEL: We don 't make any decisions today. 20 We will consider this in the coming weeks, and 21 then on Decision Day, we will make that 22 decision, and we will let you know by mail, and 23 if you have anything left to say, well, be my 24 guest. 25 If not thankou ver much for Y Y 9 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 40 1 coming in. 2 MR. MANAREL: Well, tell her what her redress is, 3 if this is negative. 4 MR. MARKEL: And if you're not completely satisfied 5 with the decision you receive from us, be it pro 6 or con, you of course have further rights to 7 correct it if you so desire by going to court. 8 And that ' s about it. 9 MRS . SHALETTE: Thank you. 10 MR• MARKEL: Thank you for coming in. 11 MS. BOLGER: Enjoy the home. 12 MRS . SHALETTE: Oh, thank you. It is lovely. 13 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED. STELLA • SCOURAKIS AND GALE LEGHART APPEAR FOR TH 14 , APPEARING E 15 COMPLAINANT, WERE DULY SWORN BY ERNEST RADFORD. ] 16 MR. MARKEL: Let 's see what your complaint is, and 17 see if the application is filled out properly, 18 and then we can get down to business. We 19 cannot arbitrarily do a lot of things here. 20 The complainant generally has to tell us what 21 he wants the assessment reduced to; what it is 22 now and what he wants it reduced to, and 23 what I 'm going to do at this time is we're going 24 to have the assessor of this area come in here 25 and help Stella complete the application. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page _ 1 1 MS . LEGHART: Does that have to be on that form 2 now? 3 MR. MARKEL: Yes, it only takes a minute. That way, 4 then we can proceed. 5 Off the record. 6 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 7 MR. MARKEL: When we are finished with the next 8 one, then you can come back. 9 This is Number 7 coming up, Doris 10 Sonner. 11 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS ADJOURNED AT 12 10 : 30 . DORIS SONNER WAS DULY SWORN BY ERNEST 13 RADFORD. ] 14 MR. MARKEL: Okay. In your complaint, you state 15 that your property is assessed as a waterfront, 16 is located on a former gutter, which is presently 17 swamp land? 18 MS . SONNER: At best. 19 The bay front portion of land in 20 back of my house is designated as owner unknown 21 on the Tax Map 43. 5. 8 . Lot 43 .5.8, which I own, 22 is not waterfront. Now, they're the same number. 23 MR. MARKEL: The number you gave me is owner 24 unknown, and your lot number is the same? 25 MS. SONNER: Well, on the next piece. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.4250 682.7363 Page 42 1 MR. MARKEL: Okay. I just wanted to make sure 2 that we ' re on the right track. Parcels of land 3 adjacent to yours are assessed at eight dollars 4 per foot unimproved, and waterfront at seventeen 5 dollars per foot improved. And you say that 6 Lot 43.5 . 8 is not waterfront? 7 MS . SONNER: That's my contention. 8 MR. MARKEL: I can't just understand one thing. 9 You say that owner unknown lot is the same 10 number as yours? 11 MS. SONNER: Maybe I didn't pick the right number. 12 MR. MARKEL: That 's the tax map. You didn 't 13 give me the lot number, per se. It' s the same 14 tax map, but your lot number would be different 15 than that one. 16 MR. MANAREL: Yours is waterfront, I take it? 17 MS . SONNER: Yes, but the others all are deeded out 18 to the bank. 19 MR. MARKEL: I see that. You've got it very well 20 illustrated. On this application, you don 't say 21 how much you want it reduced to. 22 MRS . SONNER: I thought I did. Eleven dollars. 23 MR. MARKEL: You must fill it out in the form now. 24 You've checked a box; right? 25 MS. SONNER: Right. wwa44-- 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.235 692.7383 Page 43 1 MR. MARKEL: So, you've got to pick one of these, 2 A, B, C, or D, and tell us what it is now, 3 and how much you want that reduced to. 4 MS. SONNER: I don't know about equalization rates. 5 MR. MARKEL: Well, there's many ways you can claim 6 for reduction and one is to go by the State 7 Equalization Rate. 8 MS. SONNER: They're all different surrounding me. 9 MR. MARKEL: Yes, but I would say what you're 10 claiming right now is probably the B. You think 11 it' s excessive because -- 12 MS . SONNER: [INTERPOSING) Yes. 13 MR. MARKEL: Okay. Now, you think it' s excessive 14 because yours is a smaller piece of property, 15 and it' s not worth as much as the ones 16 around you? 17 MS. SONNER: Right. 18 MR. MARKEL: So you are looking for a reduction 19 from a certain amount to a certain amount, and 20 you've already attached this here, attached 21 the list of parcels upon which complainant 22 relies for objection if applicable. 23 And you've done that. We 've got that . 24 and what I suggest you do is just fill in the 25 amount; it says here assessed value of property. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2aps 692-7383 Page 44 1 So you put that in; okay? You' ll have to do it. 2 MS. SONNER: This is the seventeen dollars? 3 MR. MARKEL: But you have to do it. 4 MS . SONNER: All right. 5 MR. MARKEL: And then it says here what you want 6 it reduced to. All right? You fill that out, 7 and while you're doing that, I ' ll ask him to 8 get us a couple of comparison cards on some of 9 these other properties around you so we can 10 can see what the story is. 11 Here is your assessed valuation right 12 here. You bought this in 175? 13 MS . SONNER: No. • MR. MARKEL: Qh, 168? 14 15 MS. SONNER: ' 66. Maybe 168 . I know what threw 16 me here is this full value, because I don 't 17 understand that, and I put down the seventeen 18 here. 19 MR. MARKEL: You put it down the way you want it. 20 MS. SONNER: [INDICATING] 21 MR. RADFORD: Why do you contend that it ' s not 22 waterfront? 23 MS. SONNER: Well, in the first place, I don 't 24 own that parcel out there that it' s based on. 25 Nobody seems to know who owns it. The portion 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-T�'S6 692.7383 Page 45 1 that was on the quote, unquote, gutter, is a 2 swamp. It's closed at both ends , and it's not 3 waterfront. 4 MR. RADFORD: Does it have water coming into it 5 at times, high, unusual tides? 6 MS . SONNER: Yes. It's stagnant. , No fish, nor 7 fowl or people can swim. 8 MS. BOLGER: Only mosquitoes? 9 MS. SONNER: Yes . In my opinion it doesn 't qualify 10 as waterfront. 11 MR. MARKEL: Have you got any questions that you 12 would like to ask Mrs. Sonner? 13 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 14 � MR. MARKEL: How about you, Carol. 15 MS. BOLGER: No. 16 MR. MANAREL: I have none. 17 I have a couple of questions I would 18 like to ask the assessor. 19 MR. MARKEL: You want to ask him right now? 20 MR. MANAREL: We 'll ask him later on, on Decision 21 Day. 22 MR. MARKEL: Would you make a note of what you 23 want to ask him? 24 MR. MANAREL: Yes. It' s already been done. • 25 MR. MARKEL: All right. As you know, we make no 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2254 692.7383 Page 46 ] decisions today. We ' ll take this under 2 advisement and notify you of our decision after 3 Decision Day. 4 If you have anything else you'd like 5 to say to the Board before you go -- 6 MS. SONNER: [INTERPOSING] Well, I tried to get a 7 quit claim on that portion of property and 8 nobody could handle it. It 's not available to 9 me to own, and it' s just sitting. So, I don 't 10 feel I should be taxed on it. 11 MR. MARKEL: All right. That sounds sensible. 12 MS. SONNER: I hope so. 13 MR. MARKEL: Thank you very much for coming in. MS . SONNER: Thank you. 14 15 MR. MARKEL: And you' ll hear from us. 16 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AND THE 17 SCOURAKIS HEARING WAS RESUMED. ] 18 MR. MARKEL: Mrs. Scourakis, would you come up again, 19 please? You're still under oath, both of you, 20 or one of you, or whatever. Can I see that 21 application now, please? Here is the 22 application; here's a picture. Now, here' s a 23 letter that accompanies this from Mr. Scourakis, 24 and he says: • 25 "Gentlemen: I am not sure if assessor 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11713 421.22'55 692.7383 Page 47 1 has made the mistake of using a rate for 2 waterfront property. This . 12 acre parcel has 3 no water frontage. In creating addition, 4 nonexisting structure, we were advised that 5 the assessment for the building upward, not 6 outward, with consuming land, that the rate was 7 less. " In other words, if he built up -- 8 MS . BOLGER: [INTERPOSING [ Yes, I understand. 9 MR. MARKEL: "Prior to construction of an additional 10 story above, additional existing structure, I had 11 two bedrooms, bathroom, living room, dining 12 room, kitchen; the upstairs addition has three 13 bedrooms and bathrooms. The downstairs now has a kitchen dining room and shower/laundry 14 � g / Y 15 room. 16 "The total net gain in usable space 17 is one bedroom and one shower/laundry room. " 18 And he further states, "To go from 19 twenty-five hundred dollars to five thousand 20 nine hundred dollars, an increase of three 21 thousand four hundred dollars for a one hundred 22 and thirty-six percent increase, is unthinkable, 23 and, I am certain this is not the norm. 24 "I have checked A-1 and B-1 on grounds 25 for complaint, and ask you that you re-evaluate A,41 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2233 692.7383 Page 48 1 which is correct based on the above statement. . 2 Yours truly, " et cetera, et cetera. 3 Evidently, your husband has stated 4 his case quite well on that letter. And I reall 5 see no reason why we would have to question you 6 with what he ' s already written. We make no 7 decisions today. You can explain this to her. 8 MS. LEGHART: Yes, I will. 9 MR. MARKEL: We make no decisions today, and we will 10 make the decision between now and Decision Day, 11 or on Decision Day, and notify you by mail of 12 our decision. And if there ' s anything she would 13 like to say, anything more, you may do so. 14 Does anybody here have any questions? 15 MR. WEINHEIMBER: No. 16 MS. LEGHART: She 's concerned about the rate of the 17 three times the amount of the original rate. 18 MS . BOLGER: That we 'll consider. 19 MR. MARKEL It 's stated in there. 20 MS . BOLGER: He did a good job in writing the letter. 21 MR. MARKEL: All right. Thank you very much. 22 1"MS • LEGHART: Thank you so much. 23 MRS . SCOURAKIS: Have a good day. Bye, now. 24 (WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 25 10: 55 A.M. THOMAS P. MC GUNNIGLE WAS DULY SWORN ,b/w, fa,-/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2235 692.7383 Page 49 1 BY ERNEST RADFORD. ] 2 MR. MARKEL: Let me see your application. You've 3 checked -- 4 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: [INTERPOSING] I don't know what 5 to check. 6 MR. MARKEL: How would you just like to describe 7 your problem to us? 8 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: If you read the back there, you'll 9 get a half idea; only that ' s going to be half 10 anyway. 11 MR. MARKEL: This is a letter attached to the 12 application by Mr. McGunnigle. "My arguments • 13 are as follows: 14 "And Tara parcel is one, and has to 15 remain one according to Suffolk County, which 16 makes my farm and its value, as well as the 17 house, and its value, unique, and nonprecedent. 18 One acre for 1987 is taken out and assessed 19 separately. The entire" -- 20 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: [INTERPOSING] That' s the fact, and 21 then my argument. 22 MR. MARKEL: Okay. That acre should be lowered -- 23 in other words, this is under the Farm 24 Preservation Program? • 25 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Yes, right; that 's what the whole 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 50 1 thing is . 2 MR. MARKEL: And you put the property into Farm 3 Preservation? 4 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I didn 't. 5 MR. MARKEL: You bought it as -- 6 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: [INTERPOSING] Right. The guy before 7 me sold the development rights, and then I 8 bought only the farm. 9 MR. MARKEL: Only the farm? 10 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Right. 11 MR. MARKEL: You had a house on one acre of this? 12 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I am still building it. 13 MR. MARKEL: It 's under construction? 14 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Yes, I am building it myself so it 15 takes time. 16 MR. MARKEL: Okay. 17 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: This is the letter from Klein before 18 I bought the property. 19 MR. MARKEL: In evidence is a letter from the 20 County Executive, John V.N. Klein, stating that 21 it is in the Farm Program, and that there is no 22 prohibition against the construction of a 23 residential dwelling. 24 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: And also a point that I think I need • 25 to say about this letter is that only the farmer 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 431.2;56 692-7383 Page 51 1 can live in that house . 2 MR. MARKEL: Right. You can 't -- 3 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: [INTERPOSING] So the house has 4 restricted use. 5 MR. MARKEL: I 'm not supposed to be writing anything 6 in here. You're going to have to do the writing, 7 but we' ll decipher it together. 8 You're just complaining basically on 9 the piece with the house on it, or the whole 10 piece? 11 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I 'm complaining about everything. 12 MR. MARKEL: About the whole piece of land? 13 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: From the very beginning to the very 14 end, because of .its uniqueness. And I 've got 15 a bunch of things here . 16 MR. MARKEL: You have total acreage of forty-seven? 17 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Yes, the way they divided it up. 18 MR. MARKEL: All right. 19 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I 'm sure I don 't. 20 MR. MARKEL: And what acreage is your homestead, 21 approximately? 22 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: My homestead is only the land under it. 23 And, I have a marshland, that's what the other 24 acre is. 25 MR. MARKEL: I see. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 . 692.7363 Page 52 I MR. MC GUNNIGLE: It 's one something, except that one 2 acre of marshland is nothing. 3 MR. MARKEL: Do you farm the forty-seven acres? 4 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I farm as much of it as I can. 5 MR. MARKEL: Well, you know, it' s considered -- 6 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: There 's a right of way through it, 7 there 's a barn on it. 8 MR. MARKEL: I 'm not saying every inch of it, but 9 you're actively farming the land? 10 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Yes, I 'm farming it right now. 11 MR. MARKEL: You 're actively farming the land? 12 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Yes. 13 MR . MARKEL: You know, if the land lays dormant for a certain amount of ears -- 14 y 15 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: [INTERPOSING] No. It 's being farmed. 16 It' s been farmed since 179 by me. 17 MR. MARKEL: Okay. We have to know these facts. 18 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Right. 19 MR. MARKEL: Off the record. 20 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 21 MR. MARKEL: You feel that it' s overassessed; is 22 that the case? 23 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: In every aspect. 24 MR. MARKEL: Then you have to check one of these. 25 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: It' s not unequal. I feel my situation 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 4at1.;$55 692.7363 Page 53 1 is unique in that they didn 't know what to do 2 with me just like I 'm here. Maybe we can figure 3 out what you should do with me. 4 MR. MARKEL: Well, we 're going to do something so 5 you can be here. 6 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I can 't fit into the farmland category. 7 I can 't fit into other farmland categories, 8 because this is not normal . 9 MR. MARKEL: It's in the Preservation Program? 10 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: This house and the property around 11 it are just much different than any other 12 farmland. I can 't till it except this one unit. . 13 I can' t even live in it unless I farm it. I 14 can 't rent the farm and live in the house. I 15 can 't do the opposite. Everything has many 16 restrictions . So from the beginning to .the end, 17 it ' s different, and I can't be assessed as a 18 house like my neighbor' s house because the house 19 has so many restrictions on it. 20 I 'm not free like they are. So that 's 21 what the whole thing is based on, and my land 22 assessment is half of normal farmland assessment. 23 MR. MARKEL: Because you're in the Preservation 24 Program? 25 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: That sounds like they gave me a break W4., A49 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7363 Page 54 1 but I 'm sure they didn 't know what to- do. So, • 2 let' s do that. If I were in an Agricultural 3 District -- are you familiar with the 4 Agricultural District? 5 MR. MARKEL: Yes . 6 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: If I were in an Agricultural District, 7 the values of my land would be Z by E&A, and it 8 would be lower than that value. I 'm committed 9 for life , and an Agricultural District is 10 committed only for eight years. So, if 11 anything, my value should be lower than an 12 Agricultural District, not an Agricultural . 13 District lower than mine. 14 MR. RADFORD: What is this district? 15 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: This is not a district. I will have 16 to get into a district if it' s going to lower 17 my taxes , but it seems silly that I have to get 18 into a district and commit my land for 19 agriculture for eight years when it' s committed 20 forever already, so in my mind right off the 21 bat, the assessment on the land should be 22 different. And then the land under the house 23 has to be different because they're taking an 24 acre, and making it like someone else ' s acre. 25 It 's not like someone else' s acre. It goes only 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 55 1 with the farm, and then the house itself is 2 unique because I can ' t do anything with the 3 house that other people can do with it. 4 MR. MARKEL: You can live in it. 5 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: If I farm the farm. 6 MS. BOLGER: And if you don't farm the farm, 7 you can't live in the house? 8 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I have no rights to the house. It's 9 an agricultural building. I could almost be 10 and might be -- 11 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] Considered a farm 12 animal? • 13 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I might be able to get a ten year 14 exception because it' s a farm building. I 'm 15 not asking for that, but I mean, it's still 16 foggy as to what it is and what it isn't. I 17 don 't know. 18 MR.. MARKEL: You've explained it pretty good. But, 19 would you please just check either this box or 20 this box and just tell us how much you want 21 it reduced to? 22 We know the figure that it's assessed 23 at. 24 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I would have to just -- 25 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] Well, you know the 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2235 692.7383 Page 56 1 figure they 're assessed at. See, we 're not 2 allowed to do it. You have to do that. So 3 take a few minutes and decide.- Check one of 4 these boxes. Excessive assessment, fine . . 5 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: See, I read this stuff that says if 6 you fill this out wrong, you're automatically 7 messed up. 8 MR. MARKEL: That 's why I 'm making you fill this 9 out right. 10 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Okay. That 's good. 11 MR. MARKEL: Because we don 't want to deny you, 12 because you didn't fill in the right box. 13 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: That 's what I 'm afraid of. 14 MR. MARKEL: Well, don 't be afraid. But, I 'm 15 not allowed to do the writing. 16 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: All right. 17 MR. MARKEL: We're off now. 18 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 19 MR. MARKEL: Bill, have you got any questions? 20 I 'm sure you must have a question in this cae. 21 MR. WEINHEIMER: The question I asked before, is there 22 any comparable situation to compare to your 23 situation? 24 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: None that I know of . I just called 25 Ron Lufarde last night, who' s Farm Bureau ,PI4,— A.& 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 57 Executive Secretary. He knows what 's going on, 2 and he called me back .last night at eleven 3 o' clock, and there ' s a Zimmer in Orient or 4 something who had the most similar situation, 5 and that situation was that the farm was sold 6 with a house on it to the County. 7 MR. MARKEL: You've built this house? 8 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: I am still building the house . There q was an old house on an old farm, and the County 10 took everything. The first days they made a 11 lot of mistakes in the County, and maybe all of 12 this was some of it, I don 't know, but that is 13 around . I don 't know what they're doing 14 y g with 15 it. 16 MR. MARKEL: Zimmer, is that the name? 17 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Yes. 18 MS . BOLGER: In Orient? 1g MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Oh, you 're familiar with them? 20 MS . BOLGER: No, I just heard you, and I wrote it 21 down. 22 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: That ' s the only other case he knows 23 of in Southold Town, and then of course, there 's 24 Foley in Riverhead. 25 MR. MARKEL: Could I see Zimmer? ,kI4,, &4/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2Y � 692.7383 Page 58 1 MR. HARRIS: There was no house on it. There was a 2 little house, but it fell to the ground, 3 and it burned up. 4 That was years ago. It 's been removed 5 for I don't know how many years. 6 MR. MARKEL: Was there a house on it? 7 MR. HARRIS: I 'm sorry. Scott Harris; assessor for 8 the Town of Southold for the record. 9 There was a little house that was in 10 the middle of the patch of woods when the County 11 purchased the development rights on that 12 property, and that house was already in such • 13 disrepair I think the assessment was almost 14 nothing on it because the house was falling 15 into the ground; it was completely rotten. 16 And then some kids torched it. 17 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: That's all Ron Lufarde knew about it. 18 MR. HARRIS: There was one other house that he 19 thought existed on development rights land. 20 MR. MARKEL: Would you please get that card for 21 me? 22 MR. HARRIS: Sure. 23 MR. MARKEL: Are you going to address the Board, 24 sir? 25 MR. WATTS: I 'm the Chairman of the Board of x,/,4,, A 4/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 42}.xzSS 692-7383 Page 59 1 Assessors, Charles C. Watts. 2 Originally, this development right 3 was sold on this property. They 're sold here. 4 MR. MARKEL: Not by Mr. McGunnigle? 5 MR. WATTS: No, but this has nothing to do with 6 it. Development rights were sold here in 7 1970. The house was built on it in 1979 . Then g they illegally split this, in my estimate. 9 MR. MARKEL: Who did? 10 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: This isn't my land. This is someone 11 else ' s land. 12 MR. MARKEL: This is an example. 13 MR. WATTS: Well, this house was built on here rights were sold, at the time , after development ri 14 P 9 15 but it has been, in my estimation, illegally 16 split, because he sold the development rights. 17 Now, he' s put the house up. 18 MR. MARKEL: This guy? Not McGunnigle. 19 MR. WATTS: No, it has nothing to do with 20 Mr. McGunnigle. This is a piece of property 21 where they built a house on land development 22 rights, and then sold the property. 23 MR. MARKEL: Just explain it to me, Mr. McGunnigle. 24 We have here an assessment of eighteen 25 hundred dollars total for land. Is this just a 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 117.3 421.2255 692-7393 Page 60 1 house only or is this the whole piece that was 2 sold for development rights? 3 MR. WATTS: The whole piece was sold. 4 MR. MANAREL: How big is the piece? 5 MR. MARKEL: How many acres? 6 MR. WATTS: 14 . 61. It was 15. 586 . 7 MR. MARKEL: Hold it. 8 MR. MANAREL: It 's a third. 9 MR. MARKEL: It's one-third. 10 MR. MANAREL: Just about. 11 MR. MARKEL: Sizewise, it' s one-third? 12 MR. MANAREL: Yes. 13 MR. MARKEL: And it 's assessed at eighteen hundred • 14 dollars . One-third of it is assessed at eig htee 15 hundred dollars, so we multiply this by three. 16 MR. MANAREL: Fifty-four. 17 MR. MARKEL: You get fifty-four. Now, let us look 18 at Mr. McGunnigle. His is assessed at -- 19 MR. MANAREL: (INTERPOSING) Eighty-six. 20 MR. MARKEL: It' s assessed at sixteen one, actually 21 overall, but I 'm just looking at land. His land 22 is assessed at seventy-five. So, assessed more-- 23 okay. Thank you, Charlie. 24 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: That piece of property right now, the 25 house is taken out of that property. W,4" fL41 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 62 1 you just going to make the decision? 2 MR. MARKEL: No. There 's no more discussion. 3 MS. BOLGER: We' ll do whatever background -- 1 Page 61 1 MR. WATTS: It 's been split illegally. 2 MR. MARKEL: Yes , I took it out. 3 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: No, what I 'm saying, what is done 4 there I don 't think anyone will agree that what 5 is done there is legal . 6 MR. WATTS: No, it isn't. They split the house . 7 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: That house is now sellable other 8 than the farm, and that' s irrelevant to my 9 property. There was no right to build that 10 house in the first place. 11 MR. WATTS: They did have a right to build this . 12 MR. MANAREL: Excuse me. You people aren 't supposed 13 to be talking. 14 MR. MARKEL: Okay. 15 MR. WEINHEIMER: People have to talk through the Board, 16 not directly to each other . 17 MR. MARKEL: Is there anything else you'd like 18 to say, Mr. McGunnigle? 19 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Help. 20 MR. MARKEL: Well, we'll try to help you. As you 21 know, we don 't make a decision today. It's 22 made on Decision Day, which is ,within a couple 23 of weeks, and shortly after that, we 'll give 24 you notice by mail. 25 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Would there be more discussion, or are W4,, fa,./ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2233 692.7383 Page 63 1 an Agricultural District, now you couldn 't do 2 anything for this coming year . 3 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: No, it would be -- 4 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] Unless we would vote 5 on it. 6 And we 're going to look at this, for 7 this year, anyhow so then next year, you'll 8 have the option of doing whatever you want with 9 it, but we 're going to go on the pretext of what 10 you've submitted today. 11 Sam, have you got any questions? 12 MR. MANAREL: No questions. • 13 MR. MARKEL: Ernie? 14 MR. RADFORD: No. 15 MR. MARKEL: Bill? 16 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 17 MR. MARKEL: Carol? 18 MS . BOLGER: No. 19 MR. MARKEL: Okay. Thank you very much for 20 coming in . 21 MR. MC GUNNIGLE: Just remember the uniqueness of it. 22 I think you won 't forget. 23 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 24 11: 30 A.M. CHRYSELLEN BOUZIOTIS AND DOUGLAS 25 RIEMER, APPEARING FOR THE GRIEVANTS, WERE DULY 11d, S.4/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2235 692.7383 Page 64 I SWORN BY ERNEST RADFORD. ] 2 MR. MARKEL: Okay. They have checked Box A. 3 Number 2 in Box A, it says, "The assessed values 4 of real property improved by one, two and three- 5 family residence, a higher percentage of 6 full market value than the assessed values of 7 other properties in the area. " 8 I think we have some comparative 9 cases here. 10 MR. RIEMER: This is a tax map of the area. And, 11 those are the assessed values and the taxes 12 which people are paying around their house. . 13 MR. MARKEL: Well -- 14 MR. RIEMER: [INTERPOSING] Those, rather than 15 calling out each of these individuals -- 16 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] I need to see something 17 here. Here ' s your client, and I want to see 18 what you're talking about. You're talking about 19 a piece of property that 's improved, right, with 20 this dwelling on it? 21 We 'll pass this down to everybody so 22 we can have a look at it. Would you say, 23 Mr. Riemer, that these are pretty good 24 representations of neighbors? 25 MR. RIEMER: This list here? 114, fa,-,-/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 65 1 MR. MARKEL: Just look at the headings there, 2 and the buildings, the sizes, et cetera. 3 MR. RIEMER: Yes . 4 MR. MARKEL: Would you say they're representative 5 of properties in the area of equal size, et 6 cetera? 7 MR. RIEMER: Yes and no. One of the difficulties 8 we have in terms of size of house, is finding 9 a house on a similar size piece of property. 10 One of the examples we have is the one in 11 front of you, which is the house immediately 12 next door. That house is on three acres . 13 MR. MARKEL: Well, Mr. Riemer, all we have to know 14 is the size of the acreage that your client has. 15 MR. RIEMER: Half an acre. 16 MR. MARKEL: The half acre is assessed at what? 17 What have we got, the assessment for the land 18 only? 19 MR. RIEMER: The land is assessed at one thousand. 20 MR. WEINHEIMER: One card has a thousand; the other 21 has nine hundred. 22 MR. RIEMER: There are two pieces of property. 23 MR. WEINHEIMER: That ' s nineteen hundred, then. 24 MR. MARKEL: Are they both the same size property? 25 MR. RIEMER: Yes , but one is a corner property; W,4, fL&I 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 66 1 that's why it ' s assessed at one thousand. 2 MR. MARKEL: Which one is this one? 3 MR. RIEMER: The house is assessed at a thousand 4 dollars. 5 MR. WEINHEIMER: Sam, the one card has five-sixths, 6 the other one has five-one. 7 MR. MARKEL: We're not interested in the acreage 8 at this particular time. Okay? I 'm going to 9 break this down into per acre or per half acre 10 or whatever the size of the complainant' s 11 land is . It's a little over a half acre; is 12 that right: 13 MR. RIEMER: Yes . 14 MR. MARKEL: AndY ou said the house was on the 15 piece that's the corner lot? 16 MR. RIEMER: That ' s correct. 17 MR. MARKEL: And are you in the real estate 18 business? 19 MR. RIEMER: Yes , I am. 20 MR. MARKEL: Do you agree that a corner lot is 21 perhaps worth a little more than a side lot 22 because you have two road frontages? 23 MR. RIEMER: I don 't see any advantage to it, 24 but the taxes in the Town are assesssed that 25 way. Y 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421.4;55 692.7383 Page 67 1 MR. MARKEL: That 's the way the common taxes are 2 assessed in the Town. But you agree with that? 3 MR. RIEMER: Yes, the issue is not the assessment 4 on the land; the issue is the assessment of the 5 house. 6 MR. MARKEL: Well , we 're going to start with the 7 house. 8 MR. RIEMER: Okay. 9 MR, MARKEL: And just to point out to you that 10 this is a three-acre parcel. It 's an inside 11 parcel and it comes out to about -- this is 12 Lutz, this comes out to about seven hundred and 13 thirty-three assessment per acre, as against 14 nine hundred dollars for the complainant's 15 acre, which is the corner. 16 So, we' ll sort of agree that that 's 17 comparable? lg MR. RIEMER: We' re looking at a building lot. Let 's 19 go that way. 20 MR. MARKEL: One step at a time. That ' s comparable. 21 Now, we get to the building. 22 MR. RIEMER: Her house is on the corner piece. 23 They also own a half acre adjacent to that 24 house, which is an inland lot that you referred 25 to that is taxed at nine hundred dollars. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2253 692.7363 Page 68 1 MR. MARKEL: Have you got a separate tax bill? . 2 MR. RIEMER: Yes. 3 MR. MARKEL: Is it on the complaint form today? 4 MR. RIEMER: No. 5 MR. MARKEL: Then we' re not talking about it. 6 So you have a total square footage 7 here of house, garage, et cetera, of eleven 8 thousand forty-five feet. 9 MR. RIEMER: Eleven thousand forty-five feet? 10 That's what it ' s assessed at. 11 Off the record. 12 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 13 MR. MARKEL: Mr. Watts, would you explain what the • 14 difference .is in the assessed value of -- 15 MR. WATTS: [INTERPOSING] Well, all these 16 comparables here are two-story houses. You're 17 comparing a two-story house to a story and a 18 half, and , the rate is higher on the two-story 19 houses than they are on the story and a half. 20 MR. MARKEL: But the complainant' s house is at a 21 lesser rate. 22 MR. WATTS: Because it ' s considered a story and a 23 half. All these comparables are two-story 24 houses, and you can't compare two-story houses, 25 and they are old houses. 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11713 421.2255 692.7393 Page 69 1 MR. MARKEL: So they probably have a depreciating 2 factor, is that the case? 3 MR. WATTS: They do have a depreciating factor. 4 MR. RIEMER: But if an older house is rebuilt, and 5 is larger than a story-and-a-half house, and 6 it' s assessed at a higher rate, should not then 7 the assessment be higher or at least comparable 8 to the house next door? 9 That 's the issue we're raising, that 10 by granting a depreciation allowance on some 11 of these homes, and the result is that this 12 house is overassessed, vis-a-vis theirs, and 13 the houses have been rebuilt . 14 If you take a look at Mrs. Schreiber' s 15 house, which is there, discounting the land, 16 because it 's forty-seven acres, it is Sound-front 17 property, but comparing the structures on that 18 property, which is a rebuilt farmhouse -- that 's 19 the wrong picture; that' s an incorrect picture. 20 MR. MARKEL: I was going to say -- 21 MR. RIEMER: [INTERPOSING] Which is a rebuilt 22 farmhouse, a rebuilt barn into a working 23 artist' s studio, and a garage, which has an 24 apartment in it , if you look at what it is 25 assessed at or its land improvements compared P P 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7363 Page 70 1 to the land improvements for which the 2 Bouziotis' house is assessed at, it seems a 3 little bit off. 4 In addition, we appeared last year 5 and one of the issues which was raised last year 6 was what the purchase value of the house was. 7 Now it ' s my understanding that in this Town, 8 purchase price does not have anything to do 9 with the assessment of this house, but it was 10 a big issue in the minutes of last year' s 11 meeting . It came up again. And I guess at the 12 final session, it was a question of what the 13 house was purchased for, yet we were told it 14 had nothingto do with the purchase price of the 15 house. 16 Mr. Schreiber's property is currently 17 on the market for two million dollars . The 18 assessment on his house, compared to this 19 house, is much lower. If we look at 20 Mr. Poltho' s house, which is a completely rebuilt 21 Victorian, it' s the same situation. Granted, 22 it's on a large piece of property as well. 23 Then I went back and I pulled out 24 Mr. Dart' s house, and whatever corporation it 25 is that owns the other house next door to 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-;255 692.7383 Page 71 1 Mr. Dart ' s on Peconic Lane, both of those 2 homes are on two acres apiece; one of those 3 is a multi-dwelling home, yet their assessments 4 are half of what this house is . 5 MR. MARKEL: Again, those houses are old. 6 Both Mr. Dart' s and that folding 7 company's house is an older house. 8 MR. RIEMER: Yes, but if ' you rebuild a house -- I 9 mean, when you qualify -- 10 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] What do you consider 11 rebuilding it, painting? 12 MR. WATTS: Interior. Inside and outside. . 13 Complete. 14 MR. MARKEL: If somebody paints the house outside, 15 that 's not building? 16 MR. WATTS: No. 17 MR. MARKEL: Or if they put up a fence or 18 decorations , it' s not rebuilding the house? 19 MR. WATTS : No. 20 MR. RIEMER: But those homes all have been rebuilt 21 inside. And yet, they're taxed at half. 22 MR. MARKEL: We have no way of knowing whether 23 the house has been rebuilt, or it hasn' t 24 been rebuilt. All we can do is take the • 25 knowledge that is -- or the evidence that is 44L fa.-I 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2254 692.7363 Page 72 1 submitted to us by yourself and also by the 2 assessor. The assessor has evidently seen 3 these properties as of the last date of 4 assessment anyhow. 5 MR. WATTS: That ' s all we can go by. 6 MR. RIEMER: But in the picture of Schreiber, which 7 is the one you have -- 8 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] I don 't have a picture 9 on Schreiber. 10 MR. RIEMER: That' s what I 'm saying. 11 MR. MARKEL: There ' s just a garage here. 12 MR. RIEMER: Right, and in last Sunday 's Times , 13 there was an ad by the owner for two million • dollars purchase rice on the whole piece 14 P P 15 of property. 16 MR. MARKEL: What he 's asking for the property 17 really doesn 't enter into this at all . Anybody lg can ask anything they want -- 19 MR. RIEMER: [INTERPOSING] Understood. 20 MR. MARKEL: [CONTINUING] -- for a piece of 21 property. 22 MR. RIEMER: Well, then what about the purchase 23 price? I guess the real issue that we 're 24 raising is that last year, the -- 25 MR.- MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] Again, anybody can pay W"k, A41 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.22!!fS 692-7383 Page 73 1 anything they want for a property. 2 MR. RIEMER: I think there' s certain things known 3 as fair market value, and that, generally 4 speaking, is if a house in an area sells for a 5 certain price, and the houses also in the area 6 are selling relatively in the same area, that 's 7 somewhere around the - fair market value. g MR. MARKEL: You'll have to have more than just 9 one example on a fair market value. You have 10 to have several houses sold in an area, 11 approximately at the same time, and approximatel 12 the same design -- not same design, but same • 13 square footage, approximately, and the square 14 footage of land to know that . 15 I think we have to base our answers 16 on what the assessment is of the neighbors, 17 for the land and for the buildings, as to their 18 age, condition, et cetera, et cetera. I think 19 that' s the only fair way we can do that. 20 Have you got any questions you'd like 21 to ask on this, Bill? 22 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 23 MR. MARKEL: Carol? 24 MS. BOLGER: I don 't, at this time. 25 MR. MARKEL: Sam? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.22511 692.7383 Page 74 1 MR. MANAREL: No. 2 MR. MARKEL: Ernie? 3 Have you seen this? 4 MR. RADFORD: Yes, I have. 5 MR. MARKEL: You looked it all over? 6 MR. RADFORD: Yes . 7 MR. MARKEL: Is there any question at all? 8, MR. RADFORD: I don 't have any at the present time. 9 MR. RIEMER: Last year , we came in just before 10 lunch. We went through the same thing and 11 really was somewhat cut off. 12 MR. MARKEL: We are not cutting you off, and you 13 have the floor from. now until you finish, okay? 14 MR RIEMER: This sheet here with accompanying 15 tax map, is a copy of the whole area. And if 16 you go through it, you'll see that there is one 17 house in the whole area which comes close to 18 being assessed at the same value. 19 MR. MARKEL: Is it a house that is of the same 20 style and construction? 21 MR. RIEMER: It 's a newer house on a newer and 22 larger piece of property. 23 MR. MARKEL: Would you say it' s about the same 24 age? 25 MR. RIEMER: No, it's probably within the last four ,k/w, fa"./ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 75 1 or five years that it was constructed. 2 MR. MARKEL: When was your house constructed? 3 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Seventeen years ago. 4 MR. RIEMER: Which also is a question. When does 5 the building achieve the point for being 6 eligible for depreciation acceptance? 7 MR. MARKEL: A lot older than seventeen years. 8 We' ll ask Mr . Watts . Charlie, what is it, 9 twenty-five years and up? 10 MR. WATTS: Well, as a rule, it is more than that 11 forty years . But it also depends on the 12 condition of the house. 13 MR. MARKEL: If it' s falling apart -- 14 MR. WATTS: [INTERPOSING] We had a new ranch 15 not too long ago; the ranch house was only about 16 six years old and we put a depreciation on it. 17 It was so bad. The windows were rotted out of 18 it, everything. 19 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Than why aren 't the old houses -- 20 MR. MANAREL: [INTERPOSING] Excuse me . Please 21 address the Chair. 22 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Why haven't the old houses that have 23 been completely refurbished, had their tax 24 breaks taken away from them? And also, if 25 fair market value of the house doesn' t enter 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2230 692.7383 Page 76 1 into it, if it ' s strictly based on rebuilding • 2 value, if the million dollar house burns 3 down today, and the twenty-five thousand 4 dollar house burns down today, because one is 5 old and one is new, and because one is constructed 6 that many years ago, and one has just been 7 constructed, the rebuilding value per square 8 footage is going to be the same? 9 MR. MARKEL: Actually, I believe that the 10 assessments are made on a, what is it, 1967 11 assessment rate. 12 MRS. BOUZIOTIS: Fine, but the point is that the two 13 houses that burned down are going to be assessed 14 at the same rebuilt rate . So, what difference 15 does it make if it' s worth a million dollars 16 or if it' s worth fifty thousand dollars? And 17 if the market value doesn 't enter into it, 18 why was that made an issue? 19 Of the twelve examples of houses that 20 were equal in size to ours last year, not even 21 one of them appeared here. But there was a big 22 issue made, do we have the right house and the 23 fact that the house and the piece of land that 24 it stands on, I said it was purchased for a 25 hundred and eighty thousand. There was .a big 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 CZI.2255 692.7383 Page 77 1 question raised as to -- here. We answered 2 that the purchase price, that that was the 3 purchase price, one eighty thousand, and then 4 we go further down the card, and show three 5 fifty thousand. First of all, the house wasn't 6 three fifty; it was one eighty. 7 MR. MARKEL: Well, that 's why we asked you what it 8 was, and you told us it was a hundred and 9 eighty thousand dollar house. 10 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Fine, but what difference does it 11 make if it has nothing to do with market value? 12 MR. MARKEL: It 's just for informational purposes. • 13 MRS. BOUZIOTIS: Is this a complete copy of last year's 14 minutes? 15 MR. MARKEL: Let me see. It would be hard for me 16 to tell. 17 MRS. BOUZIOTIS: I mean none of the examples that we 18 printed are even addressed here. 19 MR. MARKEL: Yes, for instance, Carol raised the 20 question of how much it was purchased for, 21 because the card was wrong, and we wanted it 22 corrected. You see? 23 MRS. BOUZIOTIS: Okay, so that had nothing to do with 24 it? 25 MR. MARKEL: That had nothing to do with it, except 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7363 Page 78 1 that we wanted to get some facts straight on 2 these cards . We have come across so many cards 3 with errors on them, and it's humanly possible , 4 because there ' s thousands of cards in the 5 assessor' s office, and there ' s various help to 6 do these cards, and there are human errors. 7 So, we attempt to correct any human 8 error whenever we can find one. 9 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Except that the issue about the hundred, 10 I think the question was raised how did I 11 arrive at the market value of the house, and I 12 said because that's what we paid for it. 13 MR. MARKEL: Well, is that the market value of the 14 house? 15 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Well, I would -- 16 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] I 'm not arguing with 17 you. 18 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: How does one establish -- 19 MR. MARKEL: You paid one hundred eighty thousand 20 dollars for the house; right? 21 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Yes . 22 MR. MARKEL: Would you sell it for a hundred and 23 eighty thousand dollars tomorrow? 24 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: No, but things don't stay -- 25 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] Which is the market value, 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11713 421-2253 682.7383 Page 79 1 what you would sell it for tomorrow or one 2 hundred and eighty? 3 That 's why we don 't consider market 4 value . 5 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: That 's right. And it was explained to 6 me that the assessed value was determined by the 7 square footage of the house. 8 MR. MARKEL: That 's right, and the type, if it's a 9 one and a half story, et cetera, et cetera. 10 MRS. BOUZIOTIS: Okay, fine, but we gave you twelve 11 examples last year on houses that were equal 12 in size to ours that were paying less, that 13 were assessed at less than half. 14 MR• MARKEL: And none of the ones you brought in 15 today are the same ones that you showed us 16 last year? 17 MR. RIEMER: Yes. 18 MR. MARKEL: None of them? 19 MR. RIEMER: Yes, some of these are the same we 20 showed you last year. 21 MR. MARKEL: Okay. So we just went over that, and 22 you have heard that some of them have more 23 assessment per square foot than you do; some of 24 them have a depreciating factor because of their 25 age, all right? 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 117A3 421-2255 692.7383 Page 80 1 MR. RADFORD: Some are two story. 2 MR. MARKEL: Some are two story, and they charge a 3 lesser rate per square foot when it' s a 4 two story than when it ' s a one story or a story 5 and a half. 6 MR. RIEMER: No. It's the other way around. 7 MR. MANAREL: It's the other way around. 8 MS. BOLGER: It goes up. 9 MR. MARKEL: The rate is more when it' s less -- 10 if you have a two thousand square foot house, 11 all on one floor, all right, and you're assessed 12 at -- 13 MR. MANAREL: [INTERPOSING] We're talking units, 14 we're not talking total . 15 MR. MARKEL: Units per square foot? 16 MR. MANAREL: Yes, and it' s so much for a single- 17 story house, so much for a story and a half, and 18 so much foraa two story, and the prices goes 19 up as the house goes up per square foot. 20 MR. MARKEL: Yes, but you see, the square footage 21 on this particular foundation , we 'll say it' s 22 two thousand square foot, all right? And you 23 have an assessed value on that, if it goes up 24 one story, say, of four dollars , so if you go 25 up two stories, you're going to go up to five 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 81 1 dollars , but it' s only on the same two thousand • 2 square feet. 3 MR. MANAREL: I 'm not talking total; we're talking 4 units . 5 MR. MARKEL: Well, I 'm talking total, because that' 6 what we're looking at here. You get less of 7 an assessed valuation on a two-story house 8 than you do on a one story of the same square 9 footage, and area, because of the fact that 10 you're going up on the same foundation area. 11 That 's the way they figure it, and 12 they' re only considering yours a story and a 13 half. 14 MRS. BOUZIOTIS: Well, that' s all it is. 15 MR. MARKEL: And there 's no attic space above 16 your second story; is that right? 17 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: There ' s an attic. 18 MR. MARKEL: But it' s not an attic, per se? 19 MRS. BOUZIOTIS: No. 20 MR. RIEMER: It just seems that the taxes which 21 they are paying, vis-a-vis their house, and 22 the other homes in the area, the homes which 23 are granted a depreciation and then are rebuilt, 24 do not come back on the tax rolls. 25 MR. MARKEL: Again, I ' ll tell you, we don't know. 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 117A3 421.2255 692.7383 Page 82 1 MR. RIEMER: You're limited to the information . 2 that you have. 3 MR. MARKEL: We don 't know if a house is rebuilt. 4 MR. RIEMER: It 's the role of the assessors. Let' s 5 say if the Town of Southold decides it has to 6 raise ten million dollars in taxes , that ten 7 million dollars is spread out over a business 8 property, residential property. Let 's say, to 9 make life easier , it has to raise ten million 10 on the residential portion of the Town. 11 By not having the records either up to 12 date or by granting all these exemptions, that • 13 are not followed through on, what happens is 14 the people whose homes do not fall into the 15 areas of these exemptions are taxed a higher 16 rate because of that reason. 17 MR. MARKEL: Yes. 18 MR. RIEMER: And in this particular case, the 19 services which this house needs from the Town 20 are the same as the other homes in the area, 21 the same as these other homes which have all 22 been rebuilt. I mean, the taxes are on the same 23 tax map, and the assessors, which I have a 24 list of there, if you look at them, yes, 25 they are smaller homes, no question, but they' re 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 83 1 not half the size, quarter of the size. 2 Is Mr. Lutz' house, which is next 3 to it, which is assessed at four-and-a-half 4 times less than the improvements, is that fair? 5 It ' s not Mr. Lutz ' fault. 6 MR. MARKEL: You' re talking about the improvements 7 he 's making. 8 MR. RIEMER: Just talking about the house . 9 Improvement being the house is being improved. 10 For it to be assessed at four-and-a-half times 11 less doesn't seem right. 12 Granted, the assessors can't go out 13 every year and look at every single house, 14 that 's asking too much for them to do, but the 15 other side of the coin is the person who is 16 in their particular situation, is being overtaxed , 17 overassessed, vis-a-vis all the other homes. 18 MR. MARKEL: I have a suggestion to the Board. 19 Why don 't we request the assessors 20 to go look at this house again, and the houses 21 in the area, and then. come back to us, prior 22 to Decision Day. 23 MR. MANAREL: That 's fine with me. 24 MS. BOLGER: I ' ll agree to that . 25 MR. WEINHEIMER: Yes. 9 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-x253 692.7383 Page 84 1 MR. MARKEL: Ernie, would you agree to that? 2 MR. RADFORD: Yes, I think the whole thing has to be 3 studied befoee you can give an answer. 4 MR. MARKEL: Is that satisfactory to you? 5 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Yes. 6 MR. RIEMER: Yes . 7 MR. MARKEL: We' ll get a complete report on what 8 happened in this neighborhood. 9 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: I would particular like the examples 10 that we 've given to be looked at. 11 MR. MARKEL: All right. 12 I offered this as a solution to this 13 problem. 14 MR. RIEMER: We 're not trying to say that anyone 15 is doing anything wrong. It's just that we're 16 out here,and the amount of taxes that they're 17 paying on a house on half an acre is a 18 significant tax. 19 MR. MARKEL: What we 're going to do is this. I 'm 20 going to request the assessor or assessors to 21 go to your area, look at this entire situation. 22 MRS. BOUZIOTIS: All of the examples. 23 MR. MARKEL: And report back to this Board prior 24 to Decision Day. 25 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Which is when? Or it hasn't been 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421-22.05 692.7383 Page 85 1 determined? 2 MR. MARKEL: We haven't set that yet. It usually 3 is about two weeks after. 4 MRS. BOUZIOTIS: So some time in the month of August? 5 MR. MARKEL: It would be some time in the month of 6 August, and after we get that report and 7 consider all the facts, at that time, we' ll 8 then notify you of our decision. 9 MR. RADFORD: If we could do away with schools -- 10 MR. RIEMER: [INTERPOSING] There ' s no question 11 that the school taxes are quite high. 12 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: This is the other thing. My neighbor 13 goes to the same school. 14 MR. MANAREL: That is not the way the democracy 15 works. Because, you can take a family with 16 sixteen kids in a garage and they pay practicall 17 nothing, but they're going to demand services. 18 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: All I 'm saying is that their services 19 are the same, but they're paying a quarter of 20 what we 're paying. I have no children in the 21 schools out here - 22 MS. BOLGER: You will. 23 MR. MARKEL: You can't hide that fact. 24 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: But they still won 't be going to these 25 schools. I have children, but they don't go to ,b/w, A 4 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.22'35 692.7383 Page 86 1 these schools. 2 MR. MARKEL: Okay. That ' s what we 're going to do 3 in this particular case. 4 MRS . BOUZIOTIS: Okay; thank you. 5 MR. MARKEL: And that' s the best we can do. 6 MR. RIEMER: Have a good day. Thank you. 7 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 8 12 : 10 P.M. , AT WHICH TIME A LUNCHEON RECESS WAS 9 TAKEN. THE HEARING WAS RESUMED AT 1: 30 P.M. ] 10 MR. MARKEL: Number 10 , Mar Lake Associates . 11 These , as you probably know, are -- 12 MR. WEINHEIMER: [INTERPOSING] Are these all 13 certiorari? 14MR. MARKEL: Yes. We' ll just put certiorari on 15 that. 16 MR. MANAREL: That 's those four, all certioraries? 17 MR. MARKEL: Mar Lake. 18 MR. MANAREL: King Kullen certiorari? 19 MR. MARKEL: Yes, Alan A. Cardinale, certiorari. 20 Number 14 , Robert and Nancy Bertorello. 21 paid one hundred ninety-two thousand for the 22 parcel. They bought it in September, 186; they 23 paid cash, and then, evidently, the DEC, they 24 got a permit to build. I don 't know what they' re 25 claiming. 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 87 1 MR. RADFORD: What ' s the beef? 2 MR. WEINHEIMER: Is that person going to be present? 3 MR. MARKEL: No. The assessed value exceeds the 4 full value of the property. The assessed value 5 is twenty-eight hundred dollars. They want it 6 reduced to one thousand nine hundred and sixty 7 dollars. 8 MR. WEINHEIMER: You say the assessed valuation exceeds 9 the market value? 10 MR. RADFORD: One ninety-two thousand? 11 MR. MARKEL: That was the purchase price. 12 MR. RADFORD: She concedes it' s worth a little more 13 now? 14 MR. MARKEL: They paid one ninety-two thousand 15 for it. 16 MR. RADFORD: Yes, but she shows one ninety-six. 17 MR. MARKEL: The assessment in 186 is twenty-six 18 hundred dollars. It went up to thirty-three 19 hundred dollars . There was a net change of 20 seven hundred dollars. It's 3. 3 acres. It 21 sold twice in ' 86. These people bought it for 22 a hundred ninety-two thousand and they've got a 23 building permit to build. The building permit 24 is for a hundred and fifty thousand dollars • 25 valuation and they are now paying thirty-three W,4, fL&I 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7363 Page 88 1 hundred. The assessment is three thousand 2 three hundred dollars . So, their taxes are 3 minute and they want it reduced. 4 MR. WEINHEIMER: What 's the full tax? 5 MR. MARKEL: The actual tax bill, I don 't know. 6 MR. WEINHEIMER: What 's 'the assessed valuation? 7 MR. MARKEL: Three thousand three hundred dollars. 8 MR. WEINHEIMER: And they paid over a hundred thousand 9 dollars for it? 10 MR. MARKEL: One hundred and ninety-two thousand 11 dollars. 12 MR. WEINHEIMER: That 's crazy. 13 MR. RADFORD: Well, that's not unusual. 14 MR. WEINHEIMER: only thirteen hundred dollars? 15 MS. BOLGER: No, thirty-three hundred dollars . 16 MR. MARKEL: That' s assessed valuation, Bill. 17 MR. WEINHEIMER: That still sounds kind of low. 18 MR. MARKEL: Do you want to put that aside for 19 Decision Day? 20 MS. BOLGER: Yes . 21 Next is 15. 22 MR. MARKEL: This next one is submitted by Thomas 23 and Susan Tomaselli. This is going to be a very 24 easy one. 25 MS. BOLGER: Why? Ww, fL4V 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 117A3 421.2255 682-7363 Page 89 1 MR. MARKEL: The form is incomplete, and not signed. 2 Denied. 3 Number 16 is Anthony Pirrera; that' s 4 certiorari. 5 Number 17 is Mr. Frank B. Zimmer. 6 [WHEREUPON FRANK B. ZIMMER WAS DULY SWORN BY 7 ERNEST RADFORD. ] 8 MR. MARKEL: Do you farm this, Mr. Zimmer? 9 MR. ZIMMER: I was. It' s covered crop with rye. 10 MR. MARKEL: And you have been farming it? 11 MR. ZIMMER: Yes. 12 MR. MARKEL: So it' s -- 13 MR. ZIMMER: [INTERPOSING] It' s farmland. 1 MR. MARKEL: Mr. Zimmer, in our application here 4 Y PP 15 you put the full value of the property as one 16 hundred and sixty thousand dollars; right? 17 MR. ZIMMER: Exactly right. That's what I paid 18 for it in 1985. 19 MR. MARKEL: Let ' s see what you're assessed for. 20 The assessed valuation as far as the assessors 21 are concerned is twenty-four thousand one hundred 22 dolaars; is that right?. 23 MR. ZIMMER: That 's what on the taxes, yes . 24 MR. MARKEL: What would you like that sum to be 25 reduced to? We 're not talking taxes, we're 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 90 1 talking assessed valuation. 2 What do you think the assessed 3 valuation should be? 4 MR. ZIMMER: Right now, I would like to ask a 5 couple of questions. 6 MR. MARKEL: Shoot. 7 MR. ZIMMER: Number one, what do you base the g hundred and sixty thousand dollars on? 9 What' s the taxes on a home or whatever 10 it is? I 'm talking about strictly the sale and 11 the purchase price. 12 MR. MARKEL: We do not have a tax -- first of all, 13 we don 't make tax rates here . The tax rates 14 are made b the Town the Count the School Y Y. 15 Districts, et cetera. We cannot work on your 16 full value of the property at one hundred 17 sixty thousand dollars. What we work on is what lg the assessed valuation is. 19 In other words, the assessors said 20 that your property is assessed at twenty-four 21 thousand one hundred dollars . Right? 22 MR. ZIMMER: Uh-huh. 23 MR. MARKEL: Scott, are you out in Orient? . 24 MR. HARRIS: Yes. 25 MR. MARKEL: All right. Mr. Zimmer' s property is W,4" A41 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 91 1 assessed at twenty-four one. Is it farming? 2 He is farming the land; he has a rye crop in 3 there right now, is that right? 4 MR. ZIMMER: That ' s right. 5 MR. MARKEL: Well, Mr. Zimmer says it's farm. 6 How much per acre do you assess for farming? 7 MR. HARRIS: : Two hundred fifty dollars an acre. 8 MR. MARKEL: How much? 9 MR. HARRIS: Two hundred fifty dollars an acre. 10 MR. MARKEL: That' s universal throughout the Town 11 of Southold? 12 MR. HARRIS: That ' s right. 13 MR. MARKEL: And you have seventeen and .a half • 14 acres? 15 MR. ZIMMER: Right. 16 MR. MARKEL: Scott, in addition to the farmland, 17 is there anything else you assess on this 18 property to bring it up to twenty-four thousand 19 one hundred dollars? 20 MR. HARRIS: Farm-related structures. 21 MR. MARKEL: Let' s see what we have in the way of 22 farm-related structures. You've got seven 23 buildings or more? 24 MR. ZIMMER: Let 's see what we 've got. Seven; that 25 isn't one. That was a chicken coop. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 92 1 MR. MARKEL: Do you go by square footage on those • 2 farm buildings? 3 MR. HARRIS: Yes. 4 MR. MARKEL: What do you charge for square footage? 5 MR. HARRIS.: Normally, it' s a dollar a square foot, 6 but depending on the condition of some buildings, 7 we put fifty cents a square foot on them, 8 depending on their grade, if they' re in poor 9 shape. 10 MR. ZIMMER: They' re all in poor shape. 11 MR. MARKEL: Well, let's just see what they put 12 on it. Demarest was the former owner? 13 MR. ZIMMER: Yes, the three brothers. 14 MR. MARKEL: You've got a farmstand? 15 MR. ZIMMER: Not yet. I put in for a permit. 16 MR. MARKEL: You put in for a permit? 17 MR. ZIMMER: Yes, but it' s not there yet. 18 MR. MARKEL: That 's going to cost approximately 19 five hundred dollars? 20 MR. ZIMMER: Uh-huh. 21 MR. MARKEL: The assessors have you taxed at fifty 22 cents for . four of the buildings. And a dollar 23 for two of the buildings. How about a dollar 24 fifty, do you have one of those, too, in • 25 there, or is that a dollar? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 682-7383 Page 93 1 MR. HARRIS: There ' s a house on one of them, too. • 2 There 's a small cottage. There 's actually three 3 small buildings on there, plus an existing 4 little cottage . I don 't know exactly what it 5 was , helper ' s quarters, or what it was that 6 lived there . 7 MR. MANAREL: On this map, are these outlined, the 8 buildings? 9 MR. ZIMMER: Yes. 10 MR. MARKEL: They are all farm buildings? 11 MR. MANAREL: Apparently not, from what that says. 12 MR. ZIMMER: There ' s one small one. It's probably 13 for farm help season, this one right here. 14 [INDICATING] 15 MR. MARKEL: Is that occupied at the present time? 16 MR. ZIMMER: No. 17 MR. MARKEL: Off the record. 18 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 19 MR. ZIMMER: I guess the point I 'm trying to make 20 is that it's not what' s on the property; it' s 21 what I 'm trying to determine as how can I get 22 taxed on the purchase price of two years ago of 23 one hundred and sixty thousand dollars? 24 MR. MARKEL: Who said you were taxed on that basis? 25 MR. ZIMMER: No, I say how can I be taxed? 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 94 1 MR. MARKEL: Oh, you'd like to be? 2 MR. ZIMMER: Yes, I mean there are people that are 3 buying these homes for one fifty, two hundred 4 thousand dollars and five hundred thousand 5 dollars, and a million dollars. I don 't think 6 they' ll find anything up on the Sound. How many 7 here live on the Sound? Does anybody live on 8 the Sound? When you start talking about 9 waterfront, it' s just out of sight, and you're 10 talking about a half a million dollars, and 11 their taxes are about twenty-three hundred 12 dollars, and here I am with seventeen and a half 13 farm acres, disrepair barns and I 'm paying 14 sixty-eight hundred dollars a year. 15 I mean, it' s just -- I can 't explain 16 it. This is why I 'm here. 17 MR. MARKEL: Do you need the barns? 18 MR. ZIMMER: It 's very simple. Why don't you take 19 the barns down? 20 MR. MARKEL: Yes . 21 MR. ZIMMER: It costs me twenty thousand dollars 22 to take the barns down. I 'm not the only 23 one that is up against this. The Demarest 24 brothers, they were up against it, too. And 25 this is one of the primary factors, I think they 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2235 692-7383 Page 95 1 just wanted to get out from under, and I 2 purchased it knowing full well at that time it 3 had fifty-one hundred dollars on it, and to 4 come up here and try to reduce it somehow. 5 And I took a quote out of the 6 Equalization New York State booklet, which 7 specified what the buyer will pay, and what a 8 seller will sell for. 9 MR. MARKEL: Are you running the farm as a business 10 right now, Mr. Zimmer? 11 MR. ZIMMER: Not totally, no. I have been leasing 12 that portion out to Eddie Latham, along with 13 I had about another some odd acres down 14 the road on the south side -- 15 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] You don 't live on the 16 property, do you? 17 MR. ZIMMER: My house is on the market now in 18 Brightwaters. We 're going to build on the 19 property. 20 MR. MARKEL: But you don 't live on it? 21 MR. ZIMMER: Oh, no. 22 MR. MARKEL: So, in effect, this is a business 23 venture for you at the moment? 24 MR. ZIMMER: At the moment, for the last five years, 25 trying to get things organized. I have all the 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-;255 692.7383 Page 96 1 equipment, all the machinery in the barns right 2 now. But to this date, it' s not being done by 3 me, worked by me, the farm. 4 MR. MARKEL: I 'd just like to point out to you 5 that there' s several areas where you can make a 6 claim for us to -- 7 MR. ZIMMER: [INTERPOSING] I'd like to hear it. 8 MR. MARKEL: I 'm just telling you some of them. 9 One is, if you feel you are not equally 10 assessed -- 11 MR. ZIMMER: [INTERPOSING] I feel that way now. 12 MR. MARKEL: That 's one reason. And there' s one 13 reason in here that if you feel you're losing 14 money as a business, your commercial property 15 or business property, if it doesn 't make money, 16 you can ask for a reduction in the assessment 17 because of losing money. 18 In order to file a claim in that area, 19 you really should have an accountant showing 20 how you're losing money, expenses, against 21 certain other things. I am just passing this 22 along to you. 23 MR. ZIMMER: I appreciate it. 24 MR. MANAREL: Is farming considered a business? • 25 They don 't in zoning. I don 't know the answer. Ww, A.4/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 4x1.2;54 682.7383 Page 97 1 I 'm just raising the question. • 2 MR. MARKEL: Well, I 'm sure. You take a greenouse, 3 that 's a business, isn 't it? 4 MR. MANAREL: I 'm only raising the question on 5 zoning for houses. Commercial property is 6 different than farm property. 7 MR. MARKEL: I don't think we can answer that 8 question. I think, Mr. Zimmer, perhaps he has 9 to get a legal opinion on that, whether farming 10 is considered a business or not. 11 MR. ZIMMER: Farming is a business; there' s no 12 question about it . . 13 MR. MARKEL: I 'm just passing this along to you. 14 MR. ZIMMER: I appreciate all that. The only 15 thing is even if we 're talking about a . 16 write-off for taxes for sixty-eight hundred 17 dollars , what is it? All I want to do, and 18 this is why I 'm here, is to reduce the tax. 19 MR. MARKEL: You want to reduce the assessment? 20 MR. ZIMMER: You die, you pay your taxes., those are 21 two ways to go in life today. 22 MR. MARKEL: If you want to reduce your assessment? 23 That, in effect, will reduce the taxes. 24 MR. ZIMMER: Okay. 25 MR. MARKEL: We' re only interested in assessments. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2285 692.7383 Page 98 1 MR. ZIMMER: Yes. 2 MR. MARKEL: We don 't set the tax rate. 3 MR. ZIMMER: Right. 4 MR. MARKEL: So basically what we do is evaluate 5 it as to assessed valuation, and then 6 automatically, you get a reduction because if 7 the assessed valuation is lower, your taxes will 8 be lower. 9 The reason I checked the first part 10 of this with Scott was to make sure that the 11 figures were consistent with the figures for 12 other farms, and area and buildings and land, 13 et cetera, and once we know that's consistent, 14 then we 'll take the next step. P 15 MR. ZIMMER: Okay. 16 MR. MARKEL: We 'll go down the whole line. 17 MR. ZIMMER: I appreciate that. 18 With respect to, like I say, whether 19 Eddie Latham -- you're going to make a 20 comparison there , but my criteria really is what 21 I paid for it, and what would be the tax in 22 relation to a hundred and sixty thousand dollars 23 on a purchase price. 24 Can anybody give me an answer on that? 25 MR. MANAREL: The answer would be I think simply one 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 441.4255 692-7363 Page 99 1 hundred and sixty thousand dollars here or lower • 2 than your valuation. 3 MR. ZIMMER: I 'm talking about if you' re talking 4 about sixteen hundred dollars on one hundred 5 and sixty thousand dollars on a home -- 6 MR. MANAREL: [INTERPOSING] No. I 'm talking about 7 what your assessed valuation on the card is. 8 MR. ZIMMER: Twenty-four something. 9 MR. MANAREL: What they do -- 10 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] Twenty-four one. 11 MR. MANAREL: They take the tax rate, and utilize 12 that with the assessment, and come up with the 13 taxes. So if your one hundred and sixty 14 thousand dollars is more than your assessed 15 valuation at the present time, it stands to 16 reason that your taxes would be higher. 17 MR. ZIMMER: I understand that. 18 MR. MANAREL: So you don't want to be assessed at 19 one hundred and sixty thousand. 20 MR. ZIMMER: There must be a formula which I don 't 21 know. 22 MR. MANAREL: It' s about a quarter, assessed valuation 23 about a quarter of one hundred and sixty thousand 24 dollars, which would be approximately forty 25 thousand dollars. But that' s a guess. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-22'$5 692-7383 Page 100 1 MR. MARKEL: Assessed valuation is only twenty-four 2 one . 3 MR. ZIMMER: I guess my question is, if a person 4 has a piece of property that' s valued in the 5 area, and sells it for let ' s say five hundred 6 thousand dollars, and he's paying two to three 7 thousand dollars a year in property taxes, 8 how do you formulate that? That's my question. 9 It ' s mind-boggling to me . 10 MR. MANAREL: Nobody knows what somebody' s going to 11 pay for a piece of property. 12 MR. ZIMMER: Here, you've got mine. 13 MR. MARKEL: But wait a minute. 14 MR. ZIMMER: Okay. 15 MR. MANAREL: It ' s not based on a selling price 16 because a man might want to pay one hundred 17 and sixty thousand and the next guy comes along, 18 and falls in love with it, and he 'll pay you 19 two hundred thousand; I mean, you can 't base it 20 on that. 21 MR. ZIMMER: Then they should take that sentence 22 off the paragraph, out of the first part of that 23 book. 24 MS. BOLGER: That 's just one of them. That is not 25 the one that is used. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 692.7383 Page 101 1 MR. ZIMMER: I won a case in Islip on my house. . 2 MS. BOLGER: That 's different . 3 MR. MARKEL: We don 't have that out here . 4 MR. ZIMMER: Years ago, about nine years ago, I had 5 to go before the Board and they reduced my 6 taxes at that time from six thousand to thirty- 7 one hundred. 8 MR. MARKEL: And you probably had it coming. 9 MR. ZIMMER: Yes . 10 MR. MARKEL: Off the record. 11 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 12 MR. MARKEL: As you probably know, Mr. Zimmer, we 13 don 't make any decisions today. 14 MR. ZIMMER: I understand that. 15 MR. MARKEL: We will go over all the facts and 16 figures as you have presented them. We have 17 the comparisons. 18 And Decision Day will be in about two 19 weeks, and at that time , we will notify you of 20 our decision. 21 Is there anything else you would like 22 to say to the Board? 23 MR. ZIMMER: No, just thank you very much. 24 MR. MARKEL: Is there anything the Board wants to 25 say to Mr. Zimmer? 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2253 692-7363 Page 102 1 MS. BOLGER: No. 2 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 3 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED. ] 4 MR. MARKEL: Dan and Rachel Koran, Number 18. They 5 would like their assessment reduced to thirteen 6 ninety. It's presently at forty-eight forty- 7 nine, and it' s sixty-five hundred square feet 8 at four dollars , which is two five eight-o, and 9 extension of one seventy-seven at two fifty a 10 square foot comes to four four three. They have 11 a porch at twenty square foot at a dollar . 12 They have another porch at ninety-six square 13 feet at a dollar. They have a garage, sixteen 14 by twenty-three for three hundred sixty-eight 15 square feet at four dollars. 16 They have another porch, six by eight, 17 at two dollars , and another porch eight by 18 eleven for a dollar. The two dollar porch 19 probably is enclosed. And the total assessment 20 is forty-eight forty-nine, and they want it 21 reduced to thirteen hundred and ninety dollars . 22 MR. RADFORD: What is this, on the total? 23 MR. WEINHEIMER: Yes . 24 MR. MARKEL: They want to go down to thirteen 25 ninety from fifty-four. The address of this 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7363 Page 103 1 property is 138 Sterling Avenue, Greenport, 2 New York. The size of the property is less than 3 quarter of an acre, it's 20.173, so it 's a 4 little over a quarter of an acre. 5 Wait a minute. It would be less 6 than a quarter acre. Twenty-five would be .a 7 quarter. 8 MS. BOLGER: Right. 9 MR. MARKEL: So this is about a third less than a 10 quarter. Right? 11 MS . BOLGER: Right. 12 MR. MARKEL: It 's a real small piece of property. 13 The land is assessed at five hundred; the , 14 P y improvements at forty-nine, for a total of 15 fifty-four. 16 Would anybody here like to see a 17 comparison on this one? 18 MR. MANAREL: Do that on Judgment Day. 19 MR. MARKEL: All right. Supposing we put this 20 for Decision Day since they're not here 21 personally. We can do it at our leisure and 22 we 'll make a decision then, and notify them by 23 mail. 24 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED. ] 25 MR. MARKEL: The next one is 19 . Number 19 , W4, A41 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 104 1 Satterly Estate, Ruth L. 2 [WHEREUPON JAMES P. LESSARD AND MONICA E . 3 LESSARD, APPEARING FOR THE GRIEVANT, WERE DULY 4 SWORN BY ERNEST RADFORD. ) 5 MR. MARKEL: The assessment, the total assessment, 6 now is eight thousand dollars , and they want it 7 reduced to sixty-eight hundred dollars on the 8 grounds that they are complaining, they believe 9 the property should be assessed at a 4 .53 10 percent of full value, and the latest 11 equalization rate for the city, town or 12 village for which the property is located, is 13 7.07 percent. 14 Did you get that from the assessor' s 15 office, both of these figures? 16 MR. LESSARD: No. Just the 7 . 17 MR. MARKEL: 7.07 percent? 18 MR. LESSARD: The four-and-a-half percent figure 19 is my own contrived figure . 20 MR. MARKEL: The value of the property, how did 21 you ascertain that? 22 MR. LESSARD: The value of the property? The 23 property was vacant; it was part of an 24 inheritance. There was no purchase price. 25 The original building was built by -261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11749 421.2255 692-7989 Page 105 1 myself in 1982-183, and added on to in 185-186 . 2 I built it mhself. I got the value; it cost me 3 for the original, and the addition, roughly 4 sixty, sixty-two thousand dollars. The value of 5 a hundred and thirty thousand for the building 6 is from the insurance agent, to set an insurance 7 policy, and I' figure it' s almost an acre. It 's 8 got to be worth about twenty thousand, based 9 on everything else that ' s going on around in 10 the Town, so I 'm setting a total figure of a 11 hundred and fifty thousand. 12 MR. MARKEL: You have not purchased this from the 13 estate yet? 14 MR. LESSARD: It's not been purchased. To possibly 15 clarify the confusion, the estate was of my 16 great-grandmother. She died in 1947. It was 17 left to my grandmother, who is Mrs. McNish, for 18 her life use. When she passes on, it goes to 19 my mother for their life use, and then it goes 20 to me, down and down and down. 21 They can't sell it. Through 22 Surrogate' s Court, we received permission to 23 break up the property into three parcels, and 24 permission to mortgage it for the building 25 that we live in. we live at the premises in 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 117A3 421-2255 692.7383 Page 106 1 question . Usually, with all these names, it 2 creates a lot of confusion . 3 MS. BOLGER: Yes, I can see where it would. 4 MR. MARKEL: You base your claim for reduction on 5 the fact of the equalization rate alone? 6 MR. LESSARD: That, and based on the value of most 7 all of the properties in my neighborhood. I 8 have a list of those enclosed. 9 MR. MARKEL: You have a list enclosed? 10 MR. LESSARD: I have two lists enclosed, actually, 11 if I may. 12 MR. MARKEL: I 've got it. 13 MR. LESSARD: It should say on top. One page is 14 comparable properties. This is a one-story 15 house. You havea picture. One page is one- 16 story houses in the neighborhood, and their 17 assessments, and the second page, the second 18 two pages, are just every other parcel on the 19 street. There are a few even I can't figure 20 out. 21 MR. MARKEL: Is there any one in particular that 22 stood out in your mind? 23 MR. LESSARD: Yes, Mr. Reyer ' s , directly across the 24 street. What other information do you require 25 from u s? 9 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 107 1 MR. MARKEL: Not very much else. We may have a 2 comment that you'd like to hear or a question 3 to ask you, so if you' ll wait another few 4 minutes -- 5 MR. LESSARD: [INTERPOSING] I have all day. I 'm 6 personally a little irritated with the Board 7 of Assessors. They came May 13th last year, 8 to assess the addition on the house, which I 9 did not receive a request for until November 10 of last year. 11 MR. MARKEL: Was it a full assessment or a partial? 12 MR. LESSARD: It was a full assessment, to my 13 knowledge. I have seen nothing to indicate 14 a partial. At least, I hope it's not partial. 15 That means they' ll be back again this year. 16 I had worked a midnight to noon shift that day, 17 two o'clock. I just got to sleep. I hear these 18 gentlemen out there. I said, I 'm thinking, 19 "What 's going on out there?" 20 So, I go out there, the three of them 21 are measuring up the building. I asked them, 22 "Who are you? What are you doing?" And, they 23 identified themselves as the tax assessors, and 24 promptly went and got in their van to leave . 25 I suspect that we 're going to have to pay taxes, 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421.2235 692.7383 Page 108 1 that five houses directly across the street 2 from me were also remodeled in the same current 3 period, and I attempted to point that out to 4 them. If they're going to hit the neighborhood, 5 they should hit every house in the neighborhood, 6 especially those that have been remodeled, and I 7 was not well received. 8 They just got in their car and drove 9 away, and did not, that I could see, give any 10 increase -- well, I think one neighbor got a 11 four hundred dollar increase. It just irritates 12 me that the taxes would jump an assessed 13 valuation, seventeen hundred dollars for a 14 garage, and I call it an enclosed breezeway, 15 a seventeen hundred dollar jump. I 'm a little 16 bit irritated. 17 The guy across the street put on a 18 two-story addition, and a deck, and he has a 19 swimming pool, and he' s paying approximately 20 half. 21 MR. RADFORD: How about the land across the 22 street, is it any different than yours? 23 MR. LESSARD: In what manner? 24 MR. RADFORD: Is there water? 25 MR. LESSARD: There ' s no water to the west. I live 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 481.2255 692-7383 Page 109 I on the east side. I don 't have waterfront 2 property; they don 't have waterfront property. 3 I wouldn't see that there should be a difference 4 as far as the land values go. 5 MR. RADFORD: View? 6 MR. MARKEL: Waterview? 7 MR. LESSARD: I suppose we can all see the water 8 in the wintertime, when there 's no leaves on 9 the trees. You might as well live in Manorville, 10 as far as the access to water. 11 MS. BOLGER: Is your acreage more than theirs or 12 less or about the same? 13 MR. LESSARD: I have . 84 , and they, for the most 14 part, have half an acre on the average. 15 MR. MARKEL: Well, that' s a little more than a half 16 an acre. You have a little more than three- 17 quarters of an acre. 18 MR. LESSARD: I 'm not contesting their land value, 19 but just going on, take away the land value, 20 which leaves -- 21 MS. BOLGER: (INTERPOSING] The structure. 22 MR. LESSARD: The improvements, and it 's a vast 23 difference from myself and them. I 'm not 24 contesting any of the land figures. It seems 25 to beP retty uniform. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 110 I MR. MARKEL: Here is Reyer. Now, he' s got less 2 acreage than you do. 3 MR. LESSARD: That's correct. 4 MR. MARKEL: In 1986, your assessment was a thousand 5 for the land, seven thousand for the improvements, 6 a total of eight thousand. And in 1984 , which 7 is three years ago, Mr. Robert Reyer was assessed 8 at seven hundred for the land, which is about 9 right, because his is a quarter of an acre less , 10 and his improvements were forty-two hundred. 11 Now, the last improvement shown on 12 this sheet was in 1983 . Has he made anything 13 since that, that you know of? 14 MR. LESSARD: Has he added on since 183? 15 MRS . LESSARD: Yes. 16 MR. LESSARD: Two-story addition on the back. 17 MR. MARKEL: So that is noted on here, and taken 18 into consideration in 1984 's assessment. This 19 is a much older house. Scott, is this your 20 jurisdiction? 21 MR. HARRIS: No, it's Fred' s. You want me to get 22 him? 23 MR. MARKEL: Yes, I just have one question. 24 On the main building of Mr. Reyer's 25 house, he has a rate that is a dollar and a half 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 41.2355 692.7383 Page 111 1 more than yours per sgaure foot. 2 MR. LESSARD: Which means? 3 MR. MARKEL: It means that per square foot, he ' s 4 paying more than you are. 5 MR. LESSARD: How many square feet does he show? 6 MR. MARKEL: On the main portion of the house, 7 the main building, he shows a square footage of 8 five hundred twenty-eight feet at five dollars. q MR. LESSARD: The whole house is five hundred 10 twenty-eight square feet? 11 MR. MARKEL: No, that 's the main building. It 's 12 twenty-two by twenty-four. And your house is 13 twenty-eight by fifty-one, main building. • MR. LESSARD: I think you will find that's before 14 15 the addition. He added on the twelve feet out 16 the .back. 17 MR. MARKEL: The extension, eleven by thirteen -- 18 there 's two extensions. There 's one, thirteen 19 by thirteen, and there 's one, eleven by thirteen, 20 and the rate on the thirteen by thirteen is 21 three dollars, and the rate on the eleven by 22 thirteen is five dollars . 23 So, while his rates are higher than 24 yours , if you average the three of them -- 25 MR. RADFORD: [INTERPOSING] It 's bigger in square 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421•22191f 692.7383 Page 112 1 footage. 2 MR. MARKEL: Oh, yes, your house is much bigger in • 3 square footage . Am I reading that right, 4 Mr. Watts? 5 MR. WATTS: Well, you're comparing a two-story 6 house with a one-story house . 7 MR. MARKEL: Yes, but the size of that; am I 8 reading the figures right? That 's five dollars 9 per square foot? MR. WATTS: That 's correct. 10 11 MR. MARKEL: Is there any depreciation on that 12 Reyer house? 13 MR. WATTS: Yes, twenty percent. 14 MR. MARKEL: There is a twenty percent depreciation 15 factor because of the age of the house . 16 MR. LESSARD: What is the depreciation factor for? 17 MR. MARKEL: Depreciation. 18 MR. LESSARD: What is the addition for, the deck 19 and the swimming pool? 20 MR. MARKEL: The deck is twelve by sixteen at 21 twenty-five per square foot. There 's an 22 inground pool, and that we just have a straight 23 assessment on, four hundred dollars. 24 Is that right? 25 MR. WATTS: Right. ,kI4,, &49 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2$P8 692.7383 Page 1 1 1 MR. MARKEL: The pool doesn't give any size, but 2 there' s a four hundred dollar -- 3 MR. LESSARD: [INTERPOSING] Flat rate? 4 MR. MARKEL: Flat rate on the pool. That's not 5 assessed valuation. That is actual money. 6 MR. WATTS: No, that 's assessed value. 7 MR. MARKEL: Assessed valuation? 8 MR. MANAREL: Excuse me. Mr. Lessard hasn' t signed 9 it yet. 10 MR. MARKEL: Would you care to look at that, Bill? 11 Is there any other comparison that we should 12 look at, that you'd especially like us to see? 13 MR. LESSARD: That would be more favorable? 14 MR. MARKEL: Yes. Pick out the best one. 15 MR. LESSARD: That' s so hard to do because no one 16 has a house like us. 17 MR. LESSARD: Try Number 1. 18 MR. WEINHEIMER: If a forty year old house is competely 19 renovated, gutted out inside, new plumbing, 20 new electricity, new paint job, built like a 21 brand new house -- 22 MR. LESSARD: [INTERPOSING] New siding, new roof? 23 MR. WEINHEIMER: Does the depreciation get eliminated 24 at that point? 25 MR. MARKEL: I would imagine so. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 1 14- 1 MR. LESSARD: They didn't live in it while it was 2 done; they couldn't. That's how much they had. 3 MR. MARKEL: You have to ask the assessors. 4 MR. WEINHEIMER: Charlie, we had a question. If the 5 house is granted a depreciation, it 's over forty 6 years of age, and the house is completely 7 reconstructed inside and outside, new wiring 8 and everything, do you eliminate the twenty-eight 9 percent decpreciation? 10 MR. WATTS: Yes. If we find it, we do. We don 't 11 always hear about it. 12 MR. MARKEL: This guy has 1 .25 acres, and the 13 man is assessed at fifteen hundred dollars. He ' 14 got something a little more similar to yours 15 in the shape of the house, and there ' s twelve 16 nine-six on the main building, at a rate of 17 three fifty, and that' s the same rate that you 18 have, three fifty on the main building. 19 And, he' s got a nine-by-thirteen 20 extension at three and a quarter, and you have 21 an extension of twelve by seventeen, at three 22 and a quarter. 23 He' s got a swimming pool for four 24 hundred dollars. He' s got a garage. 25 MR. LESSARD: He has two garages. 9 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2235 692.7383 Page 115 1 MR. MARKEL: He ' s got a garage at a dollar rate, 2 and that 's a new garage. And you've got a 3 garage at a dollar fifty rate. 4 MR. LESSARD: Which garage? He has two garages. 5 MR. MARKEL: It says new twenty-by-twenty garage, 6 four hundred square feet. He ' s got an old 7 something or other, with it, for about thirteen. 8 He's got another garage, twenty-three by twenty- 9 four, at a dollar rate. 10 Now, why should there be a discrepancy 11 in the garage rate? 12 MR. WATTS: If it's an upstairs, it's a dollar and 13 a half. 14 MR. MARKEL: You have an upstairs over your garage? 15 MR. LESSARD: What exactly is an upstairs? 16 MR. WATTS: Storage space. 17 MR. LESSARD: We have storage area, yes. 18 MR. MARKEL: There 's the extra fifty cents. 19 Mr. Lessard, do you have any questions? 20 MR. LESSARD: Does that also affect the swimming 21 pool? 22 MR. MARKEL: Yes . Any questions? 23 MR. MANAREL: No. 24 Have you any other comments you'd like 25 to make? //,V,, A &V 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-Z255 692.7383 Page 1 16 1 MR. LESSARD: The dollar and a half rate for the 2 garage with an upstairs, is that figured at a 3 dollar a square foot on the garage space, and 4 fifty cents a foot for the storage space, or 5 just a dollar and a half for the total square 6 footage? 7 MR. WATTS: Dollar and a half for the total square 8 footage. 9 MR. MARKEL: Dollar and a half for the total square 10 footage . Now, we don't make any decisions 11 today. That is done on- Decision Day. And that 12 will be in about two weeks, and at that itme, 13 after we come to a decision, we will notify 14 you of it by mail, and I want to thank you both 15 for coming in. 16 MR. LESSARD: Okay. Again, you still have a list of 17 other properties? 18 MR. MARKEL: Yes. We, can 't do it all today, as you 19 can see. 20 MR. LESSARD: Yes , I understand that. 21 MR. MARKEL: But we just want to get a general idea. 22 MR. LESSARD: We 're getting a different viewpoint 23 than what we expected. So many cents per square 24 foot and so on, and so on; I mean, their job 25 ' sdifficult, but look at m n I i I y house, and 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 117 1 figure it ' s worth X amount of money. I look at 2 the rest of the houses on the block, and some of 3 them are for sale; some of them aren't for 4 sale. But, if they were for sale, they would 5 be asking X amount of dollars, and so on and so 6 forth, and I consider us all to be in the 7 relative same value, yet I have an assessment 8 of eight thousand and they have an assessment of 9 forty-four hundred, five thousand, so on and so 10 forth. 11 It just strikes me as still being 12 unequal. 13 MR. MARKEL: Well, as you probably know, they don 't 14 just ask the value that you can get for a house. 15 It' s such an arbitrary figure in the first place. 16 You might be willing to pay one figure for a 17 house, and he might be able to be willing to pay 18 more or less for the same house. 19 So, you can 't assess on that basis. 20 Sometimes you can assess on the basis of common 21 sales within a given area, if there has been 22 a lot of sales in a given area, and you can 23 draw a conclusion from the price of many sales; 24 not one, but possibly you can establish a value • 25 on that basis. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 118 1 Again, using the size of the land, . 2 size of the building, in consideration with 3 it, so it' s a very tricky thing and -- 4 MRS. LESSARD: [INTERPOSING] Are you talking on our 5 tax roll, is that what we have to compare? 6 Or, could we compare a house in another part of 7 Town? Does it have to be on my street? 8 MR. MARKEL: You can compare it with any piece of 9 property in this Town from Laurel to Orient. 10 MRS . LESSARD: I thought we had to be on the same 11 street. 12 MR. MARKEL: No, you don 't . Generally speaking, 13 it 's a good idea to compare it within your own 14 area because you're knowledgeable about them. 15 You're not very knowledgeable about them out in 16 Orient, I don 't think, not if you're down in 17 Mattituck. 18 MR. LESSARD: No. And I find a house -- not to pick 19 on Greenport Village -- but if I could find 20 something similar in Greenport Village, it 21 wouldn't be fair because of the neighborhood. 22 MR. MARKEL: That' s not so. Again, we go back to 23 size of the house, size of the property, age of 24 the house , if there' s a depreciation factor, • 25 et cetera, et cetera. Basically, the assessors 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 119 1 assess in each village, the same rate. 2 MRS . LESSARD: Can we give you one more house, if we 3 know of one? 4 MR. MARKEL: Right now? 5 MRS . LESSARD: Yes. 6 MR. MARKEL: Sure. 7 MRS . LESSARD: Rose. 8 MR. MARKEL: Where is it located? 9 MR. LESSARD: I can look it up. It's in Laurel Wood 10 Estates. 11 MR. MARKEL: Do you know what the tax map number is 12 MR. HARRIS: Do you have a name? 13 MRS . LESSARD: Rose. 1 MR. MARKEL: This art has almost an acre. 4 party 15 MS. BOLGER: This is Rose? 16 MR. MARKEL: For which he 's assessed sixteen 17 hundred dollars. I don't think you can complain 18 on that. His main building is one thousand 19 one hundred and twenty feet, for which he pays a 20 rate of five dollars and fifty cents. I'm sure 21 you looked at the figures on the way over here. 22 And that again is two dollars higher 23 than your main rate. 24 MR. LESSARD: Two-story house. And in fact, it 's 25 two thousand something square feet. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 120 1 MR. MARKEL: It looks like an attic. Is 2 MR. LESSARD: It 's a two-and-a-half story house; 3 it 's a saltbox. 4 MRS. LESSARD: Yes . It 's a saltbox. 5 MR. LESSARD: Apparently, then, there ' s a three 6 dollar and something rate for one story and a 7 five dollar and something rate for a two story? 8 MR. MARKEL: Yes. Because, you use the same 9 foundation when you go up. 10 MR. MANAREL: You can see the windows there; it' s 11 two-and-a-half stories. 12 MR. MARKEL: They just add a higher rate on the 13 bass of the square footage on the bottom because 14 it is cheaper to build up than it is out. 15 You can always build up cheaper than 16 out. 17 Okay. Let ' s get the next factor here. 18 He doesn 't have a swimming pool; he 's got a 19 garage at a buck and a quarter, and you have a 20 garage at a dollar fifty because of the attic 21 above. 22 And he doesn 't have an attic above 23 that garage. 24 MR. LESSARD: I believe he does. 25 MR. MARKEL: Can I ask why the rate on this garage 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 682.7383 Page 121 1 would be a dollar and a quarter, and then on . 2 this one, a dollar fifty, Scott? 3 MR. HARRIS: Some of the old homes in Southold 4 Town were assessed at a dollar a square foot. 5 The older homes, a lot of old garages, pre-1967 , 6 were assessed at a dollar a square foot. 7 All garages since 1967 have been 8 assessed at one dollar and twenty-five cents a 9 square foot. That's the standard rate for a 10 garage.. Twenty-five cents a square foot is 11 added for storage above, which makes it a dollar 12 fifty a square foot. 13 MR. MARKEL: Any questions you'd like to ask, Bill? 14 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 15 _MR. MARKEL: Carol? 16 MS . BOLGER: Not at this point. 17 MR. MARKEK Okay. Like I say, we' ll make the 18 decision at Decision Day and notify you by mail. 19 MR. LESSARD: Would you be mailing that to 20 Mrs . McNish or to us? 21 MR. MARKEL: We usually mail it to the estate of 22 Ruth L. Satterly at the address, 1900 West 23 Phalya Road, Mattituck, attention of you, if 24 you'd like. 25 R LESSARD• If you would lease. M y , P A4/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 122 1 MR. HARRIS: Mr. Chairman, was that application 2 filed in the office and stamped in? 3 MR. MARKEL: There 's no stamp on it. 4 MR. HARRIS: It has to be recorded in officially. 5 MR. MARKEL: Okay. Would you, on the way out, 6 Scott, do that so we will make it official? 7 He has to stamp it, time received. 8 MR. HARRIS: It should have been done down there 9 before they came here. I will do that for you. 10 MRS . LESSARD: What is the date so we know? 11 MR. MARKEL: Decision Day? 12 MRS . LESSARD: Yes. 13 MR. MARKEL: We haven 't decided yet. It depends • 14 on a couple things. We have to do all of the P of g 15 things, and then the recording secretary has to 16 transcribe . 17 MRS . LESSARD: I just thought they had it set, that 's 18 why I asked. 19 MR. MARKEL: No. When she can get back to us with 20 the minutes of today' s meeting, when she gets 21 back to me, then I will get to the Board and 22 decide on a Decision Day. Usually, it 's within 23 two weeks after Grievance Day. 24 MRS. LESSARD: Okay. Thank you. 25 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 4211-22$5 692.7363 Page 123 1 4 : 45 P.M. ) 2 MR. MARKEL: Number 20 , Harvey and wife Bagshaw, 3 Jr. , but neither of them are here; represented 4 by Dan. Ross. 5 MS . BOLGER: Your name? 6 MR. ROSS: Dan Ross from Wickham & Bressler, 7 for Harvey Bagshaw, Jr. and wife. 8 MR. MARKEL: What is the assessment at the present 9 time on this? Let' s see if he gives that. 10 You did sign in down at the office, 11 and they didn't give youaa card for Mr. Bagshaw' 12 property? 13 MR. MANAREL: They didn 't stamp it either. 14 MR. MARKEL: And they P didn 't stamp it. Who would 15 like some exercise? 16 MR. MANAREL: I 'll go. 17 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS RECESSED AND THEN 18 RESUMED. 19 MR. MARKEL: They would like the assessment reduced 20 to seven thousand dollars. The present 21 assessment is what? 22 MR. ROSS: Fourteen, I believe. 23 MR. MARKEL: The last number? 24 MR. RADFORD: Fourteen thousand. 25 MR. MARKEL: And they feel that it 's overvaluation? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421-$250 692-7383 Page 124 1 MR. MANAREL: How old is the house; do you know? 2 MR. ROSS: No, I don 't. 3 MR. MARKEL: I would say that house is about 4 forty years old. 5 MR. RADFORD: I would say it 's at least that old. 6 MR. MANAREL: Is that Bill Wickham' s house? 7 MR. ROSS: No, it' s on New Suffolk Avenue . 8 MR. MARKEL: He' s got a short form appraisal here 9 from Sellick Estates Agents, Incorporated. 10 They made a short appraisal here, and their 11 appraisal is as follows -- 12 MR. RADFORD: [INTERPOSING] These are all 13 comparables? 14MR. MARKEL: That's what they are according to 15 Sellick. And Mr. Radford pointed out that 16 three comparables are in the three hundred 17 thousand dollar range, according to Mr. Sellick' 18 appraisal. And there is a personal note added 19 under all of this, and I don 't know if he 20 means by a personal note, that 's his appraisal 21 or not. It's right here. 22 MR. ROSS: Yes. 23 MR. MARKEL: Would you suppose that he meant that 24 that is his appraisal for Mr. Bagshaw' s house? 25 MR. ROSS: Yes . It should be noted this is from 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421• 'x$ 692.7383 Page 125 1 the document, that if the Bagshaw residence 2 was listed for open market sale as of this 3 date, it would have an approximate value 4 range of between two ten and two twenty-five 5 thousand. That 's , of course , a July, 1985 6 appraisal . But there 's been an update including 7 an update for this year. 8 MR. MARKEL: These are from 1985 , too, so the 9 update would be the same for all, in other words . 10 The ratio would go up the same for Bagshaw 11 and Wickham and Penny, and Flannell? 12 MR. RADFORD: That house, of course, was sold, 13 Flannell 's. 14 MR. MARKEL: Since 185? 15 MR. RADFORD: Yes. 16 MR. MARKEL: Mr. Sellick also states here, he is 17 submitting an update of the previous short 18 appraisal form, which we just read, and it is 19 the opinion of appraiser that the values 20 previous established for the subject premises, 21 as well as comparable subjects, have remained 22 essentially the same for the following reasons: 23 1 . Poor water quality and domestic 24 water supply. 25 2 . The Karr Condominium project 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2;;# 692.7383 Page 126 1 proposal for this neighborhood, and he feels 2 that it has an overwhelming impact by drasticall 3 reducing all single-family residential values 4 in the immediate area; and 5 3 . He states that New Suffolk Avenue 6 has experienced a substantial increase in 7 traffic flow during the last few years, and 8 home buyers seek traditionally peace and 9 tranquility, rather than raceways . 10 And from a marketing standpoint, 11 the homes that have been for sale and located 12 on or about New Suffolk Avenue have consistently • 13 higher real estate taxes, incomparable with 14 other homes and parcels in Southold Township. 15 Now, that' s Mr. Sellick ' s opinion. 16 Since he has not offered any examples that we 17 could look at, it is only an opinitin of 18 Mr. Sellick. 19 Sir, would you like us to compare 20 Mr. Bagshaw' s to the three that Mr. Sellick 21 has pointed out here? 22 MR. ROSS: Yes . 23 MR. MARKEL: Would you like us to pull those cards 24 and make some comparisons as to size of land, • 25 size of house et cetera et cetera? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 4,;1-2255 692.7383 Page 127 I MR. ROSS: Yes. 2 MR. MARKEL: Would you like -- 3 MR. ROSS: [INTERPOSING] Not at this time. 4 MR. MARKEL: Okay. 5 MR. ROSS: It 's for the Board' s consideration. 6 MR. MARKEL: We can do that as we meet towards 7 Decision Day. Generally, I like to do at least 8 one of them so that you get an idea of how the 9 procedure works, and if there ' s a question, 10 we can compare that against one. 11 We won 't take too much of your time. 12 MR. ROSS: That's fine. I just didn't want to 13 take the Board's time . 14 MR. MARKEL: The Board, we've got a lot of time. 15 We 're going to be here until nine o'clock 16 tonight. And I know you get well paid for 17 overtime. What one in particular should we 18 take? 19 MR. RADFORD: This one was sold. I don't know about 20 the other two. 21 MR. MARKEL: Just let me see how many acres Harvey's 22 is. Harvey' s is 2 .13 acres. And that looks like 23 the closest one we're going to come to, is 24 that one, so let us get Stanley Flannell and 25 wife. Here ' s the lot and block number, et 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2235 692.7383 Page 128 1 cetera, et cetera. 2 MR. MANAREL: That 's the first one. 3 MR. MARKEL: That 's the top number. Here 's 4 Flannell , they have 1 .40 acres , which is about 5 one and a third plus, and Mr. Bagshaw has 6 2 .13. Now, the land for Mr. Bagshaw, it looks 7 like it' s broken down into -- 8 MR. MANAREL: [INTERPOSING] I don't think he ' s 9 talking about the land anyway. I think he 's 10 talking about the house. 11 MR. MARKEL: I want to see if the land on both 12 are comparable. We have twenty-seven hundred 13 dollars for Bagshaw, we have fifteen hundred 14 dollars for Flannel . It 's about right because 15 if you broke Bagshaw's down in half, that would 16 be 1.6 acres at thirteen fifty an acre, and here 17 you have 1.4 at fifteen hundred. So, that ' s 18 right on the button, almost, in comparing those 19 two. 20 Now, we go to the size of the house 21 and the improvements. The main building for 22 Mr. Flannell is four sixty-two and two eighty 23 for seven hundred forty-two square feet at 24 three fifty per .square foot, and I would like • 25 to point out to you that Mr. Flannell 's house 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7363 Page 129 1 is a one story. We get to Mr. Bagshaw's , which 2 is considered a two story, and they go by 3 square footage at base at five fifty because of 4 the second story. So, in effect, if this had 5 the same square footage as this, it would be 6 seven dollars. 7 The next figure we have is an 8 extension of three dollars per square foot 9 and Mr . Flannell has extensions at three and a 10 quarter per square foot, and Mr. Bagshaw is 11 actually paying twenty-five cents per square 12 foot less on the extension. 13 On the deck, there 's a deck there, 14 let 's see if we have a deck there. Let 's see if 15 we have a deck there. You don't show a deck 16 there. Now, the garage there for Mr. Flannell 17 is a dollar and a quarter, and the garage for 18 Mr. Bagshaw is only a dollar. You're not getting 19 too far in this one in comparisons. 20 We ' ll have to look at the others later 21 on, but I just wanted you to see how we go about 22 this. 23 MR. ROSS: Is there a calculation for the fact 24 that it' s lakefront? 25 MR. MARKEL: Yes. Lakefrontenerall is assessed g Y 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2233 692-7383 Page 130 1 higher than just waterview or no view. As I 2 understand it, Soundfront, bayfront, lakefront, 3 they do have a higher assessment for those. 4 MR. RADFORD: Very definitely. It brings more money 5 in the market. 6 MR. MARKEL: And we will get out some of the other 7 ones from now until Decision Day, and upon 8 completion of the investigation, we will arrive 9 at a decision and notify you. Would you like 10 to be notified, or should it be directed to 11 Harvey Bagshaw? 12 MR. ROSS: Either; send it to our office, if 13 you would. 14 MR. MARKEL: Okay. Let me make a note of that. 15 Send decision to Wickham, Wickham & Bressler, 16 Main Road , Box 1424 , Mattituck, New York, 17 11552. Okay. Thank you very much. 18 MR. ROSS: Thank you. 19 MR. MARKEL: Motion for adjournment? 20 MS. BOLGER: I make a motion to adjourn. 21 MR. RADFORD: Second. 22 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS RECESSED AT 23 5: 00 P.M. AND RESUMED AT 7: 15 P.M. ] 24 MR. MARKEL: Number 21 is Ann Berryman. Basically, 25 on this complaint, she says that the owner' s ,b/w, fL-4/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11713 421-j?,q6 692-7383 Page 131 1 property is situated at the northerly terminus 2 of Young ' s Road, Orient, New York, along Long 3 Island Sound, immediately adjacent to the 4 owner' s property. Young' s Road provides public 5 access down to the beach. 6 As a result, the area surrounding the 7 owner's property is in almost continuous use 8 by the public. These factors decrease the value, 9 and desirability of the parcel, which is 10 thus far has not been taken into consideration 11 in calculating the assessed value of the 12 property. 13 Upon information and belief, other 14 beachfront properties which are not burdened 15 by the public access, are assessed at the same 16 values as the subject property. Therefore, the 17 subject parcel is believed to be overassessed. 18 That is not grounds for any reduction 19 as far as the law reads. Is everybody in 20 agreement with that? 21 MS. BOLGER: Agreed. 22 MR. MANAREL: You' re going to make a decision, 23 tonight, now? • 24 MR. MARKEL: Any that we can. We ' ll just denote 25 them so when we go to Decision Day -- 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 !F21.825l+ 692-7383 Page 132 1 MR. MANAREL: [INTERPOSING] I think you' ll get 2 your minutes screwed up. 3 MR. MARKEL: Then we won' t. But, you can make your 4 own notes . 5 Number 22 , Zan Diakos and wife. And, 6 their assessment was made in 1973, and the 7 total assessment was sixty-three hundred, and 8 they want that reduced to one thousand dollars. 9 MS . BOLGER: They want that reduced to one thousand 10 dollars? 11 MR. MARKEL: That 's right. 12 Number 23, Eugene and Maryanne 13 Sokelsky. They say the assessed value is at a 14 higher percentage of value than the assessed 15 value of other real property on the assessment 16 roll. However, they do not say what they would 17 like it to be reduced to. So, I don 't think 18 we can act on that. 19 MR. WEINHEIMER: You're not calling that denied, just 20 not acceptable? 21 MR. MARKEL: Yes . On Decision Day, we 'll tell them 22 that information was lacking, and we couldn't 23 act on it. 24 New York Telephone Company, Number 24 . 25 MR. WEINHEIMER: Is that in certiorari? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 133 1 MR. MARKEL: Well, that is out of our jurisdiction, 2 basically. 3 Number 25 is 235 Mill Street, 4 Incorporated. 5 MR. MANAREL: Who signed it, 2 , 3 or 5? 6 MR. MARKEL: It 's signed by a lawyer. However, 7 there are three signatures as the aggrieved 8 persons. 9 Number 26 , The Bank of New York. 10 Number 27 , Emmanuel Kontakosta. This 11 is in certiorari. 12 Number 28 , The 70 Marion Associates 13 and Staller Associates. As far as this one is 14 concerned, it was filled out by Cronin & 15 Cronin & Cronin, and it 's in order. 16 29 is Dorothy Snyder. 17 Number 30 is going to be Gusmar 18 Realty Corp. 19 Number 31 , L&R Vineyards Associates. 20 32, L&R Vineyards Associates again. 21 33, Emmanuel Kontakosta. Now, we 're 22 going to go to 34 , and it is Southold Ventures , 23 Incorporated. That 's Dorothy Snyder again. 24 She's the president. That 's 34 . 25 35 is Pond Enterprises, doing business p ng b es Wd, fa,./ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 134 1 as the Beachcomber Motel. 2 36 , same name. 3 MS . BOLGER: Pond Enterprises, doing business as? 4 MR. MARKEL: Yes . 37, that' s Vantage Petroleum 5 Corp. 6 38 , Benjamin Kasper. 7 39,, John' s Enterprises, Incorporated. 8 The next one is Hodor-Staller & Kasper . 9 41 is Daniel C. Mooney and Maureen M. 10 Mooney. 11 42 , New York Telephone Company. 12 Frank M. Flynn, that 's 43. 13 44 , The Southland Corporation. 14 MR. WEINHEIMER: That 's 7-11? 15 MR. MARKEL: Yes. 16 45, New York Telephone. 17 46, New York Telephone . 18 47, New York Telephone. 19 48, Riverside Homes, Incorporated. 20 49 , Riverside Homes , Incorporated. 21 50 , Riverside Homes, Incorporated. 22 And that's it. 23 MR. MANAREL: I move the meeting be closed. 24 MS. BOLGER: I second it. 25 MR. MARKEL: So ordered. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421•Z238 692.7383 Page 135 1 MR. WEINHEIMER: A11 those in favor? 2 MS . BOLGER: Aye. 3 MR. MANAREL: Aye. 4 MR. RADFORD: Aye. 5 MR. MARKEL: Aye. 6 MR. WEINHEIMER: Aye. 7 MR. MARKEL: Unanimous. 8 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 9 9: 00 P.M. ] 10 000 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 261 WOODBURY ROAD, HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2233 692.7383 Page 136 1 2 CERTIFICATION 3 STATE OF NEW YORK) 4 COUNTY OF SUFFOLK) 5 6 7 8 9 I , DONNA M. PALMER, a Notary Public in and for 10 the State of New York, do hereby certify: 11 THAT this is a true and accurate record 12 of the Hearing held before the Town of Southold 13 Boare of Assessment Review on July 21, 1987, 14 as reported by me and transcribed under my 15 direction. 16 17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 18 this 9th day of August, 1987. 19 20 21 22 l� _ 23 DONNA M. PALMER 24 25 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-73e3 Page 1 f 3 4 Hearing held by and before the TOWN OF SOUTHOLD 5 BOARD OF ASSESSMENT REVIEW on DECISION DAY, 6 August 17, 1987 at 9: 30 A.M. , at Town Hall, Main 7 Road, Southold, New York, pursuant to Notice of 8 Hearing, and before Donna M. Palmer, a Notary 9 Public of the State of New York. 10 11 12 13 14 15 GRIEVANCE BOARD MEMBERS 16 SAM MARKEL, Chairman 17 WILLIAM WEINHEIMER CAROL BOLGER 18 ERNEST RADFORD SAM MANAREL 19 20 21 ASSESSORS l 22 CHARLES WATTS SCOTT HARRIS 23 FREDERICK GORDON 24 25 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 2 1 [THE HEARING WAS CALLED TO ORDER BY THE 2 CHAIRMAN, SAM MARKEL, AT 9: 30 A.M. ] 3 4 MR. MARKEL: We' ll call the meeting to order. 5 The first one is Becky Johnston. 6 Do we have any comments? 7 MR. MANAREL: Well, as I review the case, in viewing 8 what we did this morning, I don't think she has 9 a claim against the Town. I think in the 10 transcript here, there ' s several parts where 11 she was guaranteed access to the property, so 12 I think that if the legal question is answered 13 as to her rights for egress to the property, then 14 it would seem to me we could consider any 15 further claims she may make against the Town for 16 reduction of assessment. 17 MR. WEINHEIMER: If they went 'in to assess the property 18 for the first time, and the Town .was not aware 19 that there was or was not a means of egress, 20 the assessment would be exactly the same. 21 MR. RADFORD: I agree with Sam in the sense that I 22 don't think it' s up to the Town to do anything 23 on the taxes , except to maintain them as they 24 are until the legal end of it is settled. 25 MR. MANAREL: Excuse me, Ernie. I think you mean 281 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 892-7383 Page 3 1 assessment rather than taxes. 2 MR. RADFORD: Assessment; I 'm sorry. 3 MISS BOLGER: I don 't know, but it seems to me that 4 if the person doesn't have the use of property 5 for any reason, she just can't get onto it, 6 it' s there and it' s assessed so much, so many 7 dollars for its value, but it' s worthless if she 8 in fact doesn' t really own it or can't use or 9 or anything like that. 10 So, I think that she should be 11 reduced. 12 MR. MANAREL: But on Grievance Day, Mrs. Johnston • 13 said they used it, that is the former owners; 14 they owned the house for forty years or something 15 like that. They went in and out and they 16 guaranteed it, and in the contract of sale, she 17 guaranteed the egress/ingress, and we have 18 since questioned whether that was a true statement 19 or not that she said, and there' s a lot to be 20 going on in relation to that, ultimately. 21 It seems to me that therein lies the 22 whole crux of the problem. 23 MR. MARKEL: I think if I may put something in, 24 I think we are all off on the wrong track for the, 25 moment because we can't anticipate what the ,b/w, 281 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 882-7383 Page 4 1 Courts are going to do in this matter, or 2 what the insurance company is going to do in 3 this matter. 4 We have to simply judge this on the 5 merits of the fact, that the person does not 6 have use of the property at the present time, and 7 that is an absolute cause for a grievance 8 before us . 9 What we have to consider right now 10 is whether or not she is entitled to a reduction 11 because she hasn't got access to the property, 12 and not whether or not she' s going to win the 13 court case, and not whether the people before 14 her had access or any other question whatsoever. 15 Now, that is the way I interpret it, 16 and that ' s the way it is interpreted as the 17 right for somebody to grieve. 18 MR. MANAREL: No one is objecting to her right to 19 grieve. It's the decision we arrive at, after 20 she grieves. 21 MR. MARKEL: A legitimate cause for a grievance 22 is not being able to use a piece of property, 23 and if she can 't use a piece of property for its 24 intentions, and it is not worth the value that 25 the assessors . have put on it, then we should 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 5 1 act accordingly. 2 This is my interpretation. I am sure 3 that if you get some legal advice on this, you 4 would probably be told the same thing. 5 MR. WEINHEIMER: Would it be inappropriate to ask the 6 .assessors if they have any impressions? 7 MR. MARKEL: You can ask the assessors anything you 8 want, but I am sure that the assessors have 9 only one thing in their minds. It' s a piece of 10 property, and they are assessing it as they see 11 it, and they don 't know the facts of the case. 12 We cannot ask them for their judgment 13 because that's what we're here for. • 14 MISS BOLGER: The assessment, the amount of the 15 assessment that's put on it, is because it is a 16 piece of property that can be used for one 17 purpose or another by the owner. 18 MR. MARKEL: True. 19 MISS BOLGER: But in this case, the owner cannot use 20 his property, so therefore, it' s of no value to 21 the owner. 22 MR. MARKEL: Right. We 've heard the arguments pro 23 and con. If nobody else has any comments, I 24 suggest we take a poll and see what the Board so 25 desires to do. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 682.7363 Page 6 1 Sam? 2 MR. MANAREL: Negative. 3 MR. WEINHEIMER: Positive. 4 MR. RADFORD: Negative. 5 MISS BOLGER: Positive. 6 MR. MARKEL: And I vote positive. So, it's agreed 7 that she should get a reduction, and now we have 8 to decide how much of a reduction we should 9 give her. 10 MISS BOLGER: What is she asking for? 11 I didn't get up to that part yet. 12 MR. MARKEL: She is asking for a reduction from 13 five thousand nine hundred dollars is the 14 assessed value of the property, and under the 15 conditions that exist, she believes the assessment 16 should be reduced to a full value of two hundred 17 and fifty dollars. 18 MISS BOLGER: No. 19 MR. MARKEL: Before you say no, what we have to 20 decide is how much we feel she should be reduced 21 to, and the way I would evaluate it, personally 22 -- wait a minute. 23 MR. WEINHEIMER: May I interrupt? If two of ..the Board 24 members voted negative, how can they render an 25 opinion as to how much it should be reduced? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7363 Page 7 1 MR. MARKEL: This is a different subject. That 2 part is all done. The first part of the thing 3 is done. Now, the second part is how much we're 4 going to reduce it to. And again, every Board 5 member has a right to say how much he thinks it 6 should be reduced to, isn't that right, Sam? 7 MR. MANAREL: Yes . 8 MISS BOLGER: You can say no. 9 MR. MARKEL: You can reduce it to nothing, if you 10 want, but again, the majority of the Board will 11 carry the vote. 12 The way I would see this, and I think 13 Ernie would be the one to advise us here and 14 now, how much resale would thisro ert possibly P P Y 15 have if this condition continues? 16 MR. RADFORD: It wouldn' t resell. They would want 17 to settle the issue. 18 MR. MARKEL: We have to look at it from the point 19 of view of we want to give this woman some relief 20 even though it may be only temporary. Because, 21 if the question is settled, that is a moot 22 question; the assessors will go back and raise 23 it to the value they now have on it. 24 MR. RADFORD: You speak about usage. Look at the 25 situation, where it occurred, where they didn't ,k1W 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 8 1 dredge out the canal, and the people came in 2 and wanted a reduction because they couldn't get 3 in and out. 4 MR.. MANAREL: They didn 't have access. 5 MR. MARKEL: Yes, but that was something else. 6 MISS BOLGER: That was water. 7 MR. MARKEL: They were not denied -- 8 MISS BOLGER: [INTERPOSING] The use of the property? 9 MR. MARKEL: [CONTINUING] -- the use of their 10 actual property. They were only denied the use 11 of getting a boat into an area that they formerly 12 were able to do so. They still could live in 13 their house. This woman can' t live in her house unless she takes a helicopter and lands on to 14 P P 15 of the roof, and gets off and gets in it. 16 Now, we have agreed that she' s 17 entitled to some relief. We have to decide how 18 much we believe she' s entitled to. 19 MR. MANAREL: I move to reduce it a dollar. 20 MR. MARKEL: To one dollar? 21 MR. MANAREL: Yes. 22 MR. MARKEL: We can't. 23 MR. MANAREL: No, reduce it one dollar. 24 MR. WEINHEIMER: They can 't do that. It has to be 25 multiples of fifty or a hundred. 281 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 892.7383 Page 9 1 MISS BOLGER: I say half. • 2 MR. MANAREL: I think you're just guessing. 3 MR. MARKEL: May I make a suggestion? 4 MISS BOLGER: Go ahead. 5 MR. MARKEL: Prior to this happening, the first 6 assessment previously was four thousand eight 7 hundred dollars. 8 MR. WEINHEIMER: Prior to her purchase? 9 MR. MARKEL: Yes. It has been raised to five 10 thousand nine hundred dollars. I have a 11 suggestion that we go back to the four thousand 12 eight hundred dollars, which is what the property 13 was assessed for prior to her purchasing it. 14 MR. WEINHEIMER: That's however, on the assumption that 15 the right of way was already granted by the 16 _ other property owners. 17 MR. MARKEL: This gives her the opportunity, 18 perhaps, if she doesn't want all this hassle, 19 to sell this property in the future time to 20 somebody else, I don 't think it would be a fair 21 thing in my mind, and that's what I'm suggesting. 22 MISS BOLGER: How much of a reduction? 23 MR. MARKEL: To reduce it by a thousand dollars. 24 Now, we' ll take a poll of the Board on my motion. 25 MR. MANAREL: I pass. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2235 692.7383 Page 10 1 MR. MARKEL: Okay. Bill? 2 MR. WEINHEIMER: Positive. 3 MR.. .RADFORD: As a compromise, I don 't think it' s an 4 unfair proposition. 5 MISS BOLGER: I' ll buy it. 6 MR. MARKEL: So carried. So, it's going to be 7 reduced from fifty-nine to forty-nine. 8 Now, we're going to go on to Number 2. 9 Number 2 is Harold Norman McCullough. Are we 10 ready to start discussion? 11 MR. MANAREL: I would like to hear Ernie ' s comments 12 on this because it has to do with the sale of 13 property and the value thereof, because of 14 where it is located. 15 MR. RADFORD: Just as an illustration, we had a 16 piece of property with a house on it as a 17 residence listed for sale in this area, and the 18 objection continuously was the fact that it 19 adjoined the commercial property, and as a result, 20 the owner was not able to get the price that he 21 wanted. 22 We didn't sell the property, but in 23 such instance, it could affect the property 24 as much as by a fifth of the value. • 25 MR. WEINHEIMER: About twenty percent, huh? 281 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421.2255 892-7383 Page 11 1 MR. RADFORD: Yes . 2 MR. MARKEL: All right. You've heard Ernie's 3 comments. Now, we 'll ask for your comments? 4 MR . MANAREL: I would ask another question. I would 5 ask the question if this is next to commercial 6 property, is it possible that this could be sold 7 as commercial property, or used as commercial 8 property, instead of a residence? 9 MR. RADFORD: Well, that all depends on the Zoning 10 Board, whether it' s in a commercial zone or if 11 it's a residential zone, and if it' s in a 12 residential zone, then they have to file a 13 petition to incorporate it in the commercial 14 zone. 15 MISS BOLGER: But then the next lot would be next to 16 a commercial zone, so where would it stop? 17 I want to ask a question. When these 18 people bought this whole tract, if I may put it 19 that way, because it was several lots that were 20 divided up, was the industrial or commercial, 21 whatever establishment you want to call it, 22 was that present there at the time when he 23 purchased this tract? 24 MR. RADFORD: I 'm not familiar with the exact layout 25 of this situation. I haven't seen a plan to see 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 12 1 how it's laid out. So it's hard to say. But, 2 I wouldn' t know whether the commercial building 3 was there prior or not. However, the people 4 in the instance I spoke of, the people bought 5 the house about seven or eight years ago, and of 6 course, the prices were lower. Then, all of a 7 sudden, that type of house was selling for such 8 a price, because when they tried to get that, 9 they couldn't get it. 10 MISS BOLGER: Off the record. 11 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 12 MISS. BOLGER: My statement is there' s the old saying, 13 it's not very nice, but let the buyer beware, and 14 if that industrial or commercial building was 15 there when he bought the three lot tract, I mean 16 he knew it then. 17 MR. RADFORD: Sure. 18 MR. MARKEL: May I make a comment? I asked that all, 19 the cards be pulled on this, and the adjoining 20 pieces of property, and we got them and we 21 compared them, and the property surrounding 22 Mr. McCullough' s property is all assessed at 23 approximately within the same range that' s he 24 assessed at, so he's not singled out and charged 25 more. He is just complaining that it's not worth 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 13 1 as much, but the other people are assessed the 2 same way in the area, and this is their land 3 we're talking about. 4 So, I personally feel that his 5 assessment is fair, and he' s not entitled to a 6 reduction, based on those facts. 7 MR. WEINHEIMER: The other two adjoining pieces of 8 property, were they part of the original? 9 MISS BOLGER: Yes. 10 MR. MARKEL: I 've got all the cards here if you'd 11 like to see them, but we went over this. 12 MR. WEINHEIMER: In other words, he must know that the 13 others are assessed the same as he is? Is that • 14 right? 15 MR. MARKEL: That' s right. Does anybody have any 16 other comments? 17 MR. WEINHEIMER: The fact that the others don' t complain 18 doesn't necessarily mitigate his action? 19 MR. MARKEL: Not at all, and if we would find a 20 differential -- 21 MR. RADFORD: [INTERPOSING] I don 't think he was 22 blind. He must have investigated to find out 23 what the situation was. 24 MR. MARKEL: I think so. • 25 MISS BOLGER: That 's what I say. The site was there 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7363 Page 14 1 before he bought it, presumably anyway, so he 2 knew it was there. 3 MR. MARKEL: Shall we take a vote on that? 4 MISS BOLGER: Yes. 5 MR. MARKEL: Sam? 6 MR. MANAREL: I hear some inconsistencies here. Let 7 the buyer beware? 8 MR. MARKEL: off the record. 9 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD.] 10 MR. MANAREL: Because of the inconsistencies between 11 the two, I' ll pass on it. 12 MISS BOLGER: As far as the inconsistencies go, 13 in the case of Johnston, she was given false 14 information and she checked it out, and the 15 Chicago Title Company didn't give her the true 16 facts, so I don't think in that case -- 17 MR. MANAREL: [INTERPOSING] But should the Town -- 18 MR. -MARKEL: Wait a minute. Why don't we let one 19 person make the comment, and when she's finished, 20 somebody else can go? 21 MISS BOLGER: To continue what I was saying, that's 22 the case of Johnston. 23 The case of McCullough, the site was 24 visible, the object that he ' s stating why his 25 assessment should be reduced. was clearly visible 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 15 1 to him at the time he purchased it. It's not 2 that suddenly the structure or whatever it is 3 went up overnight. I mean, it' s like me buyinq a 4 piece of property next to the dump and then 5 saying, "Hey, my assessment should be lowered 6 because the dump is there when the lots two 7 lots away from me have an assessment that is 8 comparable to mine. 9 I don't know whether I 'm making 10 it clear or not. 11 MR. MANAREL: My point is strictly this. As it was 12 right from the beginning, that if the Bocinas 13 lied, if the security people in research made 14 a mistake, why should the Town be penalized? 15 That's what we are doing when we reduce her 16 taxes, her assessment. There' s a reduction 17 and the Town is being penalized for somebody 18 else 's mistake, and that' s why I think there' s 19 an inconsistency, and I just pass, that's all. 20 MR. MARKEL: Let' s take a vote on this. Again, 21 we' ll be all day. 22 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 23 MR. RADFORD: I don 't think there should be any 24 change. 25 MISS BOLGER: Denied. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 16 1 MR. MARKEL: Denied; consensus. 2 Now, the third one we go to .is Lester 3 Hubbard. He wants it reduced from four thousand 4 seven hundred dollars to four thousand three 5 hundred dollars. We are very familiar with 6 this case . We had it before us once before, and 7 I feel that if anybody has any comments, we can 8 start with Sam? 9 MR. MANAREL: I would prefer to speak last, since I 10 know this fellow personally, and if it' s 11 necessary, I' ll make my comments then. 12 MR. MARKEL: Carol? 13 MISS BOLGER: I don 't know. It just seems to me that 14 as was stated, and I see it here in the minutes, 15 "BecauseI got one last year, I don't know why 16 I have to go through this, this year"-- which 17 ties in with Bill's statement that he thinks 18 because he got it one year, he ' s going to be 19 entitled to it hereafter. 20 And the other question I have is I 21 don 't like to sound like I 'm a skeptic or 22 anything, but anybody can go to the doctor, and 23 depending upon the doctor' s mood or whatever, 24 "Oh, yeah, whatever, I ' ll give you a slip. " And, 25 it's nothing out of my pocket to get a slip for 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421.2235 692.7383 Page 17 1 swimming pool . Do you want a swimming pool? 2 You don 't want it? You don't want to pay extra 3 taxes on. it? I don 't know, let me hear what the 4 other people are saying. 5 MR. MARKEL: What's your decision? 6 MISS BOLGER: I really don 't know. I 'm betwixt and 7 between on this one. 8 MR. RADFORD: It's interesting because I had to make 9 an appraisal on a property in Orient where they 10 had put in a swimming pool, because of his wife 's 11 necessity, and he wanted that so that he could 12 get a reduction in his income tax on the basis 13 that it was a necessary medical expense. 14 MISS BOLGER: So he' s getting a reduction on his 15 income tax? Now, he wants a reduction on the 16 tax assessment. 17 MR. RADFORD: That' s right. 18 MISS BOLGER: Okay. I 've made up my mind. 19 MR. MARKEL: What is your decision? 20 MR. RADFORD: I think that as far as giving him -- 21 we gave him a reduction last year -- I think we f 22 should continue with it. 23 MR. MARKEL: So you vote affirmative? 24 MR. RADFORD: Right. 25 MR. WEINHEIMER: I am pretty much of the same view, to 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 18 1 the extent that if we legitimately granted one 2 last year, how can we now turn around and deny 3 it? We 're being inconsistent with the same 4 information. 5 I vote for it. 6 MR. MARKEL: And I vote for it. 7 MR. MANAREL: I 'll go with you. 8 MR. MARKEL: Then it' s four to one, and it' s a 9 decrease from four thousand seven hundred to 10 four thousand three hundred. 11 Next is the case of Lawrence W. Currie. 12 He's asking for a reduction .from four thousand 13 dollars to three thousand seven hundred dollars. • 14 Mr. Manarel, what is your vote on this? 15 MR. MANAREL: I move that the assessment remain the 16 same. 17 MR. WEINHEIMER: No reduction. 18 MR. RADFORD: Negative. 19 MISS BOLGER: Denied. 20 MR. MARKEL: So ordered. 21 MISS BOLGER: Off the record. 22 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 23 MR. MARKEL: Benson Shallett is the claimant. And, 24 you have read the minutes that he' s submitted. 25 We had a discussion of what he 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 19 1 submitted, and are there any comments on his 2 application? 3 MR. MANAREL: The way I see it is that this 4 gentleman bought three lots, and they were sold 5 to him as three separate lots, but he bought 6 them as one package, and he would like the 7 assessors to assess them as one package. 8 But, in fact, they are three separate 9 lots. And based on that. assumption, I see no 10 reason for a change. 11 MR. WEINHEIMER: Same basis, no change. 12 MR. RADFORD: There is a peculiar situation here. I 13 says as to whether the Building Department will • 14an ive building permits, based on the fact 9 Y g 15 that the minor subdivision was not approved 16 by the Planning Board. 17 MISS BOLGER: Right. 18 MR. MARKEL: Yes. 19 But, that is not our jurisdiction. 20 In order for him to find out if they will or 21 won 't, he has to apply or someone has to apply; 22 right? 23 If he is denied at that time, he might 24 have a claim. 25 MR. RADFORD: In my opinion, I think that he bought 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2233 692-7383 Page 20 1 the idea of three lots, and now he thinks it's 2 going to be cheaper for him on one parcel. I am 3 against any reduction. 4 MISS BOLGER: I 'm going to deny it. But I would like 5 to ask one question. 6 If he was to attempt to sell one of 7 the lots tomorrow, would he be able to? 8 MR. MARKEL: There are three separate lots. I see 9 no reason. 10 MR. RADFORD: Yes. 11 MISS BOLGER: Even though the subdivision has not 12 been finalized? 13 MR. RADFORD: Yes. The only question will be, will 14 the buyer get a building permit. 15 MR. MARKEL: That 's something for the future . We 16 can't answer that. 17 MISS BOLGER: No. I say deny it, but I wanted to get 18 my own information. 19 MR. MARKEL: The application is denied. 20 The next applicant is John A. Scourakis 21 The complainant believes they should be 22 reduced from five nine to five thousand dollars. 23 I believe we examined the square footage 24 rates, during the examination on Grievance Day, 25 and we found that they were consistent with the 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 117A3 421.2235 692-7363 Page 21 1 rates charged by the assessors. 2 Have you got any comments? 3 MR. MANAREL: No. No comment. 4 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 5 MR. RADFORD: No. 6 MISS BOLGER: No. 7 MR. MARKEL: How do you vote? 8 MR.: MANAREL: Denied. 9 MR. WEINHEIMER: Denied. 10 MR. RADFORD: Denied. 11 MISS BOLGER: Same. Denied. 12 MR. MARKEL: So ordered. 13 The next applicant is Doris Sonner. 14 MISS BOLGER: I don't understand something, because 15 she 's saying that in here she doesn't own that 16 piece of property that 's she' s being taxed for. 17 Unless I 'm reading this wrong, it 's the owner 18 of that particular piece that' s unknown. 19 Am I under the wrong impression or 20 what? 21 If I remember the map that she drew 22 or submitted, her property did not go down to the 23 water. That's where this unknown lot came from 24 and there was like a little gully there. Am I 25 wrong? 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON, N. Y, 11743 421.2235 692-7383 Page - 22 1 MR. MARKEL: You're wrong. 2 MISS BOLGER: Okay. 3 MR. MARKEL: I have the actual map in front of me, 4 and I'm going to show it to you right now. This 5 is her property; this is the water; this gully 6 is covered on her property. [INDICATING] 7 In fact, this line dissects the water. 8 All this water is on her property. She' s got 9 waterfront. All this waterfront is hers. 10 In the case of all these other people 11 here, even though she doesn't own this piece, 12 she' s not being taxed for it. She is not being 13 taxed for the unknown piece. But she feels that 14 her piece of land is smaller than these 15 other people. 16 But these other people have the same 17 conditions. i8 MISS BOLGER: No. These other people don 't have the 19 same condition, because these are the people 20 that are on the bay. This is Gardiner' s Bay, 21 and they are right on the bay. Their property � 22 goes right down here, and goes back, whereas 23 she' s back here, going forward. 24 MR. MARKEL: She has the same views and accesses 25 as all .these other people. 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 23 1 MISS BOLGER: I don 't see where she has the same 2 accesses. She can't get. to Gardiner's Bay. 3 How is she going to get to Gardiner's Bay? 4 MR. MARKEL: She goes right up through there. 5 MISS BOLGER: But in the minutes, Ernie asked whether 6 there 's ever water in there at exceptional tides, 7 and she said yes, but it's stagnant. All right, 8 that doesn't have anything to do with whether 9 it' s navigable or not. But what I 'm saying is 10 if you're talking about access, these people 11 are right on the water. They can go right out 12 to Gardiner' s Bay. 13 MR. MARKEL: Yes . Are you familiar with this area? • MISS BOLGER: No I am not. I 'm only going b the 14 Y g g Y 15 map that' s here. 16 MR. MARKEL: Some portions of this here, see the 17 land here? That 's considered wetlands, so the 18 people built on this side of it. This is the 19 water here. [INDICATING] 20 MISS BOLGER: Yes, that 's the gully that they refer 21 to in the minutes. That's not worth two cents . 22 But that's besides the point. 23 MR. MARKEL: The gutter they call it. 24 MISS BOLGER: Okay. 25 MR. MARKEL: These lots here are considered wetlands . 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 24 1 This is probably considered wetlands; it probably 2 was abandoned by a former owner, and now the 3 owner is unknown as far as she is concerned. 4 We haven't personally looked it up to 5 see who the owner is. But this piece of land 6 that she does own is what is assessed; not this. 7 They are not assessing this. [INDICATING] 8 MISS BOLGER: Okay. 9 MR. MARKEL: If you take the square footage of the 10 piece she owns, and is assessed for, and compare 11 it to the square footage of these other people 12 on the comparison cards that we pulled, you will 13 see that she is assessed in the same manner. • 14 � MISS BOLGER: Per . foot. 15 MR. MARKEL: Per foot, or if it has a building on 16 it, per square foot of the building, as 17 everybody else in the area is for the size of the 18 property she has. 19 MISS BOLGER: Okay. My next question is are the 20 people whose lots front on Gardiner' s Bay, do -- 21 MR. MARKEL: [INTERPOSING] I ' ll see if we have a 22 card, if you give me their names. 23 MISS BOLGER: Is their assessment the same, based on 24 the same formula, or whatever you want to call it , • 25 as the Sonner lot, which does not front on 114,, A- 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page Gardiner' s Bay? 2 MR. MARKEL: We are comparing Bela' Bako. She has 3 approximately a little bigger than three-quarters 4 of an acre. Her assessed valuation for the land 5 -- I 'm going to talk the land. 6 MISS BOLGER: Yes, just talk the land. 7 MR. MARKEL: Is fourteen hundred dollars, and that 's 8 a very recent assessment. I can 't read the 9 date, but it 's a recent assessment. Miss Sonner 10 has a half acre. 11 MISS BOLGER: Bela is a little more than three- 12 quarters, and Sonner is a little less than half? 13 MR. MARKEL: And her land is assessed at twenty-one 14 hundred. Seven hundred dollars more than Bako. 15 MISS BOLGER: It 's smaller in size? And, it doesn 't 16 front on Gardiner' s Bay. 17 MR. MARKEL: I suggest in this case that perhaps I 18 call in the assessor and ask him to explain this 19 inconsistency. 20 MISS BOLGER: Yes . 21 MR. RADFORD: She ' s saying that she's paying taxes 22 on it, and yet she says it' s an unknown owner. 23 What makes her think she is paying taxes on it? 24 MR. MARKEL: She's not paying taxes on it. S25 MR. RADFORD: But she says she is. //W.", A.&I 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7363 Page 26 1 MR. MARKEL: But she ain't. In the case of Bako, 2 if you take the same piece of property and 3 compare it to Sonner' s, Bako has this and we 4 just looked at this, and that's why she' s paying 5 more .for it. 6 The three-quarters in the front here, 7 fronting on Gardiner's Bay -- 8 MISS BOLGER: [INTERPOSING] Right. That's what. I 'm 9 saying. 10 MR. MARKEL: We 'll take this back piece of hers 11 which is a separate piece, and it' s assessed -- 12 MISS BOLGER: [INTERPOSING] Five hundred dollars. 13 MR. MARKEL: Wait a minute. I can't read that. • 14 MISS BOLGER: It looks like five hundred to me. 15 Bako' s lot, the portion of his lot that does 16 not front on Gardiner' s Bay, is a little more 17 than a quarter of an acre, which has an assessed 18 valuation of what appears to be about five 19 hundred dollars. 20 MR. MARKEL: That' s five hundred because there's the 21 total. 22 MISS BOLGER: Right. So that's another 23 inconsistency. 24 MR. MARKEL: Off the record. 25 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 2_ 1 MR. MARKEL: I will now poll the Board. 2 After reviewing the facts in this 3 particular case, what is your opinion? 4 MR. MANAREL: I think we should grant the reduction 5 requested in the application. 6 MR. WEINHEIMER: I concur. 7 MR. RADFORD: I agree. 8 MISS BOLGER: I agree. 9 MR. MARKEL: So ordered. She will be granted a 10 decrease. 11 MR. WEINHEIMER: What is this, assessed valuation or 12 dollars per foot? 13 MR. MARKEL: It's going to be dollars per foot, 14 like she asked for; unless the assessors figure 15 it out, it' s going to be reduced from seventeen 16 dollars per foot assessed valuation to eleven 17 dollars a foot. 18 Next is the case of Thomas T. 19 McGunnigle. Your decision, Mr. Manarel? 20 MR. MANAREL: I say that we stay the same. 21 MR. WEINHEIMER: Negative. 22 MR. RADFORD: Negative. 23 MISS BOLGER: Denied. 24 MR. MARKEL: So ordered. 25 In the matter of Peter and Chrysellen 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7363 Page 28 1 Bouziotis and others, the complainant believes • 2 their assessment should be reduced to eight 3 thousand dollars. 4 MISS BOLGER: From what? 5 MR. MARKEL: From twelve thousand to eight thousand. 6 First, here is the report from the assessors, 7 which we asked them to go back out to the 8 property and look it over, and come back and 9 report to us to see if there was a possible error 10 in their assessment. 11 Mr. Watts, have you got a report for 12 us? • 13 First of .all, Mr. Watts, did you go 14 to the property? 15 MR. WATTS: Yes, we did. 16 Mr. Harris and I visited the property, 17 and we 're both of the opinion that it' s 18 underassessed, if anything. 19 MR. MARKEL: Mr. Harris, do you concur? 20 MR. HARRIS: I concur with Mr. Watts on the property . 21 MR. MARKEL: How much do you think it' s 22 underassessed by? 23 Of course, you know we have no right 24 to raise anybody. This is just a point of 25 information that I'm interested in hearing, from ,bI4,, A G&/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 29 1 Mr. Watts. • 2 MR. WATTS: We're of the opinion that it's 3 underassessed by nineteen hundred dollars. 4 MR. MARKEL: Thank you very much. 5 MISS BOLGER: Can I ask a question? 6 MR. MANAREL: What do you base your judgment on? 7 MISS BOLGER: That's the question. 8 MR. WATTS: The rate on the two stories is 9 incorrect. It' s four fifty and it should be 10 five fifty on the two stories. 11 MR. HARRIS: That 's the square footage. 12 MR. WATTS: Per square foot. 13 MR. WEINHEIMER: In other words, the rate was • 14 incorrect rather than the assessment? 15 MR. WATTS: The rate should have been higher. 16 It' s not an old house, so it doesn't 17 warrant any depreciation. 18 MR. MARKEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Harris and 19 Mr. Watts. 20 Mr. Manarel, have you got any comments 21 on this? 22 MR. MANAREL: I 'm reading. Go ahead, I ' ll come in 23 later. 24 MR. WEINHEIMER: Am I to assume that they made an 25 erroneous estimate of the rate? 281 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2233 892.7383 Page 30 1 MR. MARKEL: No. They probably didn't increase . 2 the rate because perhaps other houses in the 3 area were not increased at the same time. 4 Usually, they do it on a five year period, and 5 they increase the whole area, unless there is 6 new construction on the site. 7 MR. WEINHEIMER: Does that also infer that the other 8 houses in the area are going to be increased 9 next year? 10 MR. MARKEL: Let me compare a few of the others 11 on the rate structure. Most of the other 12 cards that I have here on the rate structure 13 for a two-family, are rated at five dollars. • 14 Again, looking back at Mr. Bouziotis' card, 15 he is rated at a four fifty rate, and again, 16 it's a new building, so I think he 's more than 17 fully assessed. 18 If they go back and charge him fifty 19 cents more, he 's going to get another increase, 20 which they have a perfect right to do under 21 the equal assessment rule that they use. 22 MR. WEINHEIMER: Well, if this was a new structure, 23 then they obviously underestimated at a four 24 fifty rate; didn't they? • 25 MR. MARKEL: The assessors did, yes. - 9 281 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 892-7383 Page 31 1 MR. WEINHEIMER: They're going to five fifty? 2 MR. MANAREL: They're still assessed at four fifty a 3 square foot. 4 MR. WEINHEIMER: Yes, but he' s going to reassess them, 5 though, at five fifty a square foot? 6 MR. MANAREL: No, he said they made a mistake. 7 He didn't say that they were going to change it. 8 MR. WEINHEIMER: That's what he said. 9 MR. RADFORD: I thought he said that. 10 MR. WEINHEIMER: They are going to increase it by 11 nineteen hundred dollars. 12 MISS BOLGER: Not this year. He said they have made 13 a mistake. If they had done it correctly, 14 it would have been nineteen dollars or .wh atever. 15 He didn't say that they were going to 16 increase it. 17 MR. MARKEL: You' re talking about Mr. Watts? 18 MR. WEINHEIMER: Yes. What Mr. Watts just said a 19 minute ago. 20 MR. MARKEL: Mr. Watts said they had made an error, 21 and it should be fifty cents more per square 22 foot.' 23 Off the record. 24 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD, DURING WHICH TIME, 25 MR. WATTS' STATEMENT WAS READ BACK BY THE J7J 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2235 692.7363 Page 32 1 REPORTER. ] 2 MR. MARKEL: According to the information presented 3 to us by the assessors at or request, I feel that 4 the complainant is fairly assessed at this time, 5 and in fact, is lower assessed than properties 6 in the area of the same construction quality, 7 et cetera. 8 Mr. Manarel, your decision? 9 MR. MANAREL: I concur with the Chairman. 10 MR. WEINHEIMER: I concur. 11 MR. RADFORD: Right. 12 MISS BOLGER: Agreed. 13 MR. RADFORD: In other words, denied. 14MR. pp MARKEL: Applicant denied 15 Number 10 , Mar. Lake Associates. 16 MR. MANAREL: Mar. Lake Associates is under 17 certiorari. And therefore, it's automatically 18 denied by this Board. 19 Number 11, Mar Lake Associates is 20 under certiorari, and therefore, denied by this 21 Board. 22 Number 12 is King Kullen, certiorari; 23 denied by this Board. 24 And 13 is Alan Cardinale, certiorari; 25 denied by this Board. 281 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 892.7383 Page 33 1 14 is Robert and Nancy Bertorello. 2 MR. MARKEL: What is your decision on that? 3 MR. MANAREL: Denied. 4 MR. WEINHEIMER: Denied. 5 MR. RADFORD: Denied. 6 MISS BOLGER: Denied. 7 MR. MARKEL: Number 15, Tomaselli, denied; not 8 signed. The application wasn't properly filled 9 out, so we can 't consider it. 10 MR. MANAREL: 16, Anthony Pirrera, certiorari, so 11 this Board can' t consider it. 12 MR. MARKEL: 17 is Frank B. Zimmer. He has asked . 13 for a reduction from twenty-four thousand 14 one hundred to twelve thousand dollars. 15 I believe we'll start with Mr. Radford. 16 Off the record. 17 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 18 MR. MARKEL: Having read all the evidence, and 19 comparing properties of the like in the area, 20 I personally feel that the man is fairly 21 assessed and I vote that we deny him. i 22 MR. MANAREL: I agree with the Chairman. 23 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 24 MR. RADFORD: No. • 25 MISS BOLGER: Denied. W4., A.&� 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTOIJ. N. Y. 11743 421.2235 692-7363 Page 34 1 MR. MARKEL: The next one is Don and Rachel Koran, 2 and they want that reduced from five thousand four hundred to r 3 thirteen ninety. 4 MR. MANAREL; What do they base their request upon 5 since they are not here in person? 6 MR. MARKEL: They base that on the fact the full 7 value of the property is a hundred and eight 8 thousand dollars, purchase price in 1985, and 9 the taxes were raised twice. They went up by 10 eight hundred ninety dollars since they bought 11 the property. 12 That' s what they are basing it on. 13 MR. MANAREL: Was the assessed valuation changed, or 14 was it just the taxes that went up? 15 MR. MARKEL: The assessed valuation has gone up 16 from thirty-eight hundred dollars total, in 17 1980, to fifty-four hundred in 187, which is a 18 period of seven years. The assessed valuation 19 has gone up sixteen hundred dollars in seven 20 years. 21 To me, that does not seem like an 22 unreasonable amount of assessed valuation to go 23 up in that period of time . 24 MR. MANAREL: I agree with the Chairman. 25 MR. MARKEL: They are paying a comparable amount to 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON.N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 35 1 anybody else in the area. Now, we' ll take a 2 vote on this. 3 MR. MANAREL: I agree with the sentiments of the 4 Chairman; therefore, I vote denied. 5 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. 6 MR. RADFORD: Denied. 7 MISS BOLGER: Denied. 8 MR. MARKEL: So ordered. 9 The next one is Ruth L. Satterly 10 Estate. The Lessards were the complainants. 11 And, their assessed valuation, they're claiming 12 that it should be assessed at a rate of 4. 53, 13 and the estate evaluation rate for this Village 14 is 7.07, and they want it reduced to -- 15 MR. RADFORD: [INTERPOSING) Sixty-eight hundred. 16 MR. MARKEL: It's presently eight thousand and they 17 want it reduced to sixty-eight hundred. 18 Again, we pulled comparative cards. 19 They' re all here if anybody would like to see 20 them. 21 MR. MANAREL: It seems to me, Sam, that we went into 22 quite a discussion with the Lessards and the 23 assessors at the time they made the presentation. 24 MR. MARKEL: We did. 25 MR. MANAREL: And as the discussion ensued, we found W,4" fa".1 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2235 692.7383 Page 36 1 that the assessors were very generous in their 2 assessed valuation, and from my point of view, 3 I vote denied. 4 MR. MARKEL: Okay. Have you got any comments on 5 this, Mr. Weinheimer? 6 MR. WEINHEIMER: No. Denied. 7 MR. RADFORD: I agree. Denied. 8 MISS BOLGER: Denied. 9 MR. MARKEL: So ordered. 10 Harvey Bagshaw and wife. As far as I 11 can see, no conditions have changed since the 12 last time this was brought before our Board. 13 We did this very extensively last year. 14 This is across the lake, and this is where we got 15 a real estate agent' s appraisal, Selleck Estates 16 Agents, Incorporated. The appraisal is one that 17 I feel is proper, and the taxes are comparable 18 with other like properties in the area. 19 MR. MANAREL: You mean the assessed valuation? 20 MR. MARKEL: The assessed valuation is comparable 21 to like properties in the area. 22 MR. WEINHEIMER: Without getting into too much detail, 23 requesting a reduction from fourteen thousand 24 to seven thousand is pretty drastic a reduction. 25 MR. MARKEL: Well, you've got a perfect right to 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 117A3 A21.2255 692-7363 Page 37 1 come in here and ask for anything you want. 2 MR. WEINHEIMER: I know. 3 MR. MARKEL: That doesn't mean that we have to go 4 along with anybody who comes in and claims 5 reductions. 6 However, we have to consider each 7 case on its merits, and after careful 8 consideration, what is your opinion? 9 MR. MANAREL: I agree with the Chairman. I think 10 it ought to be denied. 11 MR. WEINHEIMER: Denied. 12 MR. RADFORD: Denied . 13 MISS BOLGER: I agree. 14 MR. MARKEL: 21 is Ann Berryman, and I don 't believe 15 she appeared in person. 16 MR. MANAREL: No. We finished all the people who 17 appeared in person. 18 MR. MARKEL: Just to renew your general memory on 19 this one, she claimed that since her property wa 20 so close to -'the beach, the public beach, as a 21 result, she felt that her property was not worth 22 what they are assessing it at, because there is 23 public access; not on her property, but adjacent 24 to her property, to Sound Beach. 25 In substance, that was her claim. A 114,, A-4 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 38 1 comparison of other properties in the area, 2 we found that she is fairly assessed and I 3 personally do not feel that is a detriment to 4 have an access. It's not as if you were next 5 to Coney Island, you know. 6 MR. MANAREL: How long have they had the property? 7 MR. MARKEL: They bought it in 182 . 8 MR. MANAREL: And the public beach was already in 9 existence? 10 MR. MARKEL: It always was there. 11 MR. MANAREL: I 'll move it be denied. 12 MISS BOLGER: I agree. 13 MR. RADFORD: Denied. 14 MR. WEINHEIMER: Denied. 15 MR. MARKEL: So be it. 16 Number 22 is Zan Diakos and wife. 17 They are asking for a reduction to one thousand 18 dollars from six thousand three hundred dollars. 19 Upon comparison of neighbors, we find 20 or I find, that their rate is consistent and I 21 personally deny it. 22 MR. MANAREL: I concur with the Chairman. 23 MR. WEINHEI14ER: Concur. 24 MR. RADFORD: Concur. • 25 MISS BOLGER: Concur. 'k/,4,, A 4 9 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 39 1 MR. MARKEL: 23 is Sokelsky, Eugene and a 2 Maryanne Sokelsky. They did not appear in person, 3 and the information is lacking. 4 Actually, we don't know what they want. 5 On the facts presented, I can' t grant 6 them anything. 7 MR. MANAREL: Application not complete; denied. 8 MR. MARKEL: Denied unanimously, right? 9 MR. WEINHEIMER: Right. 10 MR. RADFORD: Right. 11 MISS BOLGER: Right. 12 MR. MARKEL: 24 , New York Telephone. 13 Denied. 14A Certiorari. MR. MAN REL: Ce tlor 15 MR. MARKEL: I 'm using the word denied. That's all 16 she has to put. 17 Number 25 , is 235 Mill Street, 18 Incorporated. The application is denied, 19 unanimously. 20 26, Bank of New York, denied. 21 In the case of Emanual Kontakosta, on 22 the .Tax Map 1001-5-4-7. 1, decrease granted, 23 as designated by the Supreme Court. 24 The next one is 70 Marion Associates 25 and Staller Associates, and it's certiorari, so 281 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2235 $92.7383 Page 40 1 it's denied. • 2 Number 29 is Dorothy Snyder, 3 represented by the same attorneys, and that's 4 denied. 5 Number 30 is Gusmar Realty Corp. I 6 show you this application for your edification. 7 Just a quick perusal; I think it is in order. 8 Off the record. 9 [DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD] 10 MR. MARKEL: That's denied. 11 Number 31, L&R Vineyards Associates; 12 unanimously denied. 13 32 is the same, denied. 14 33, Emanuel Kontakosta, he's requesting 15 a reduction from six thousand three hundred 16 to one thousand five hundred seventy-five 17 dollars. 18 This. .is assessed valuation. 19 MR. MANAREL: Is it a building or is it land? 20 MR. MARKEL: I have no idea. All I have here is a 21 tax number. He' s basing it on the equalization 22 rate of 7. 07 percent. He believes the 23 assessment should be reduced to full value times 24 3.11 percent, and he does not furnish the 25 purchase price of the property. He says to be ,b/w, A.&/ 261 WOODBURY ROAD. NUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 682-7383 Page 41 1 furnished upon request. 2 If you would like, I ' ll ask him to 3 furnish the property price that he paid for 4 it. 5 MR. WEINHEIMER: Then if we adjourn., . we can' t consider 6 it until next year? 7 MR. MANAREL: I move it be denied; application not 8 complete. 9 MR. MARKEL: I concur. 10 Number 34, Southold Ventures, 11 Incorporated; denied. 12 35, Pond Enterprises, Incorporated, 13 d/b/a the Beachcomber Motel; denied. 14 36, same, denied. 15 37, Vantage Petroleum Corp. ; denied. 16 38, Benjamin Kasper; denied. 17 39, John's Enterprises, Inc. ; denied. 18 40, Hoder-Staller and Kasper, Building 19 17D; denied. 20 41, Daniel C. Mooney and Maureen M. 21 Mooney; denied. 22 42, New York Telephone Company; denied. 23 43, Frank M. Flynn and others; denied. 24 44 , the Southold Corp. , 24020; denied. 25 45, New York Telephone Company; denied. f7L&9 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 42 1 46 , New York Telephone Company; denied. 2 47, New York Telephone Company; denied. 3 48, 49 and 50, Riverside Homes, 4 Inc. ; denied. 5 This meeting is adjourned. 6 [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS CONCLUDED AT 7 12: 30 P.M. ] 8 000 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692.7383 Page 43 1 2 CERTIFICATION 3 STATE OF NEW YORK) 4 ) ss: COUNTY OF SUFFOLK) 5 6 7 8 I, DONNA M. PALMER, a Notary Public in and for the 9 State of New York, do hereby certify: 10 THAT this is a true and accurate record of the 11 Hearing held before the Town of Southold, Board of 12 Assessment Review, on August 17, 1987 , as reported by 13 . me and transcribed under my direction. 14 15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 16 19th day of September, 1987. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 DONNA M. PALAVER 24 25 261 WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N. Y. 11743 421.2255 692-7383