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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-01/07/2016 Hearing TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Southold Town Hall Southold, New York January 7, 2016 9:31 A.M. Board Members Present: LESLIE KANES WEISMAN -Chairperson/Member ERIC DANTES— Member GERARD GOEHRINGER— Member GEORGE HORNING — Member (Absent) KENNETH SCH N EI DER— Member VICKI TOTH — Board Assistant STEPHEN KI ELY—Assistant Town Attorney 'Ji. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting INDEX OF HEARINGS Hearing Page Old North Road Barn, LLC (Claudia Purita) # 6903 3— 5 Old North Road Barn, LLC (Claudia Purita) # 6902 5 - 9 Frank J. and Elizabeth G. Kelly# 6898 9 - 11 David A. Rosenbaum # 6904 11 - 17 Patricia A. Mistretta # 6905 17 - 21 Barbara Rubenstein # 6906 21—30 & 34 -46 John Maxwell and Berkeley Bayne Soper# 6910 31 - 34 L., D., A., R., Suter# 6908 46 -49 George and Lisa Wallace # 6909 49 - 52 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting HEARING #6903—OLD NORTH ROAD BARN, LLC (CLAUDIA PURITA) CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The first application before the Board is for Old North Rd. Barn LLC (Claudia Purita) # 6903 and this was a request for code interpretation that was adjourned from December 3rd. That was so the Board could thoroughly review all the information before it. It is still opened but I have no questions and I don't think anybody else on the Board has any questions. We're prepared to close it unless Gail you have anything else you want to add. Okay so I'm going to make a motion to close this hearing. Is there a second? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay now what we can do next I put this on the agenda because it impacts other things so normally we would deliberate and then we would have hearings but I'm now going to actually deliberate on the draft for the code interpretation. We have a draft in front of us and essentially it points out that we looked at well basically that the code does not define major road that the term major road is not in the dictionary which is what we use when it's not. The closest thing is a definition of a road or a street or a major. Then we went on to say that we've reviewed the public hearing meeting minutes of town law 13A4 winery use regulations and it attempted to discern the original intent of the Town Board in adopting the winery use regulations and that was particularly to try and figure out if we could understand why a one hundred foot setback was selected and what they intended the term major road to be but it was inconclusive. There was nothing specifically in that in those minutes to allow us to do so. We then looked at the current code in the section of the code that deals with subdivisions and both our own research and the applicant's agent attorney submitted the same information defining what a major road is is not in either but there is something called street arterial, street collector and street local and then in subdivisions and land prior (inaudible) to 1987 subdivision of land section street major was defined not road major and based upon all of that the conclusion was there exists only I'm going to read into the record there exists only two 3 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting major roads within the Town of Southold namely CR48 a.k.a. the North Rd Sound Ave and State Rd 25 a.k.a. Main Rd. Old North Rd is not a major road. We believe that it falls under the current code definition of local within the definitional section 240-3 of Chapter 240. And finally winery structures located on properties which do not (inaudible) major road shall be setback at the principal front yard setback as sited in the bulk schedule for the AC zoned district. You want to discuss the point 2? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Well 2 I definitely agree with street local Old Rd North is clearly not a major road cause it's not Route 25 nor is it Sound Ave. On number three when he says the last sentence principle front yard setback as sited in the bulk schedule maybe just by period for and scratch out for the AC zoned district cause I believe isn't a winery also a permitted use in an R80 and a R120? A.T.A. KIELY : Yes. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We can scratch that. MEMBER SHCNEIDER :Just say bulk schedule. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Depending on the zone district then. You wanna just do that just for bulk schedule or do you wanna MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Or do we wanna have to write out all the different MEMBER DANTES : No I like your way. MEMBER SHCNEIDER :Just write bulk schedules. A.T.A. KIELY : As sited in the applicable bulk schedule. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : There you go that works for me. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright and we're going to delete four of the AC zone districts. Alright anything else? Okay so I'm going to make a motion to accept the this determination that there are only two major roads in the Town of Southold. Old North Rd is not one of them. Winery structures need to meet the principal front yard setback of the appropriate zone district. Is there a second? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) HEARING #6902—OLD NORTH ROAD BARN, LLC (CLAUDIA PURITA) CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright we're now open the 6902 variance on the Purita property is now open. We have received from the architect a updated site plan that now shows a sixty foot conforming front yard setback. I would like to suggest strongly that the architect make a change on this that is really not accurate even though this part of our file but I still think it's worth changing the relocated dwelling that's on the parcel that has the development rights in tact where the proposed storage building you know to be converted to the winery that is really a trailer. It has a trailer permit it is not a dwelling with a C.O. and as such it is a different kind of use than what a second you know use a principal dwelling would have and I think I would ask Nancy to change that term to relocated trailer for on premises farm workers housing that's what it's being used for and that's part of an agricultural operation. You know it's the one that's the trailer relocated trailer/farm workers housing A.T.A. KIELY : You should just put trailer for on-site farm labor. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay that's fine trailer for on-site farm labor. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Gail you want a copy of the map? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You wanna see it? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : You can have my copy. GAIL WICKHAM : Abigail Wickham for the applicant. Yea sure. I have (away from mic) MEMBER SCHNEIDER : This is the recent one. She's indicating dwelling and the problem is the term dwelling. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You don't have a C.O. that you know you're getting a trailer permit and I would argue that we don't want to confuse the fact that there are two principal uses on this property which has been (inaudible) by someone (inaudible) prior hearing testimony. Therefore clarify it by just calling it trailer for on-site farm labor. 5 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting GAIL WICKHAM : Alright I just want to make a comment or ask a question. I have not given up with Building Department in getting a Pre C.O. for a dwelling. If that occurs then I would like I mean then I would like to have that be able to be a dwelling so I don't know if there's some language you could put in unless the applicant obtains a Pre C.O. for a dwelling on the property. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well how many square feet do we have on that piece with the development rights in tact? A.T.A. KIELY : A little under four acres. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : A little under four acres. GAIL WICKHAM : Are you talking about the whole piece? A.T.A. KIELY : No just the DRI portion of the property. GAIL WICKHAM : No I mean the whole CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's the lot it's GAIL WICKHAM : It's 3.7 if I remember. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It should be up here oh it's on the old one she didn't repeat it on here. Gail, that's fine but make sure that you meet the bulk schedule 160,000 square feet eighty per use. GAIL WICKHAM : But if it's pre-existing it's pre-existing. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well yea but the winery is not pre-existing. The winery is a new use previously it was just an AG storage building so when you convert it to a winery it's going to be a principle use. GAIL WICKHAM : Well that would be eighty CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right and you need another eighty for a house a dwelling. GAIL WICKHAM : Not if it's pre-existing. I would need it if it's not pre-existing. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well even if it's pre-existing you still have that use established and it requires eighty thousand square feet to be conforming. MEMBER DANTES : Then the dwelling would be the first eighty and the winery would be the second eighty. A.T.A. KIELY : Yea cause you have a conforming lot with a pre-existing house alone. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting GAIL WICKHAM : Except that the pre-existing use was on an acre. Pre-existing dwelling was on only an acre. A.T.A. KIELY : No but that would be an argument down the road if you're gonna try to go that route and then the Building Department would make that determination whether or not you need to come back before us but for now you're good if you just cause a house trailer is specifically exempted from a dwelling unit so it can't be called a dwelling just change it to trailer for the time being and if you decide to go that route and get a Pre C.O. then we'll have this discussion if need be. GAIL WICKHAM : I'm just asking for some language that doesn't foreclose me from asking for it later even if I have to come back. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well if you describe it accurately for what it is which is a trailer with a trailer permit GAIL WICKHAM : But I have an active application in the town for Pre C.O. for a dwelling. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : If you relocate a structure GAIL WICKHAM : I know it has to be conforming. I want to be able to come back and ask so CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea then you can come back. A.T.A. KIELY : Yea you always have that ability. GAIL WICKHAM : So maybe you know subject to further application or something like that with respect to the dwelling. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I'm only suggesting that to just make this at the moment utterly conforming GAIL WICKHAM : Yes I agree. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Because what I'm going to suggest is since you now have a conforming application with a front yard setback and if there is no confusion about the fact that you've relocated the trailer cause it is a trailer with a trailer permit then I'm going to suggest that you request withdrawing the application cause there's no determination for us to make here now you're conforming. GAIL WICKHAM : Well if I withdraw the application then we don't have yea then that would be fine. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's it. GAIL WICKHAM : Yea okay fine if that's you're not making a decision you're asking me to withdraw. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No because you're conforming. GAIL WICKHAM : Fine okay I think that works. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I mean we could write it up but all it's going to do is say it's conforming because we got this we just made the code interpretation which now makes that setback conforming you see what I'm saying? GAIL WICKHAM : Except I've really given up the ability to get a Pre C.O. if I've change the map that way. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No I don't think you have and I mean why do you want a Pre C.O. for a trailer that you have a trailer permit for? GAIL WICKHAM : It's for the dwelling. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What dwelling? GAIL WICKHAM :The one in the front. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Wait a minute that's on a different piece of property. GAIL WICKHAM : No. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :This one that's not even on GAIL WICKHAM :The one that says to be removed. MEMBER DANTES : For the second dwelling. Isn't there two trailers? GAIL WICKHAM :There are two. You know what let's CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's not muddy the waters. GAIL WICKHAM : Okay we will do what you suggest. We will amend the map to show the rear structure next to the west of the winery which says existing dwelling to be relocated to be worded existing trailer/farm housing to be relocated. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right and then show that again where you're relocating it that's in the darker January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting GAIL WICKHAM : Yes on both spots and upon together with a letter asking to withdraw the application. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea perfect because I think what we want to do is to make sure that there's no confusion in the Building Department about the bulk schedule at this point. Well we're trying to avoid we're not going there okay you know what I'm saying for all of our sakes let's just make it nice and clean and what you want to do in the future fine we'll see you later. Alright is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address this application? Hearing no further questions or comments from the Board I'm going to make a motion to close the hearing and to accept the verbal to be followed with written request for withdrawal from the applicant's agent. Is there a second? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) HEARING #6898— FRANK J. and ELIZABETH G. KELLY CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This next application before the Board is for Frank and Elizabeth Kelly. This is adjourned from December and so we don't have to read the legal notice again. Where are we with the Pre C.O. in the Building Department? DAN ROSS : I understand that the Building Department CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh sorry Dan you have to state your name into the record. DAN ROSS : I'm sorry my apologies Dan Ross on behalf of Mr. and Mrs. Kelly for the application. I'm advised by Mr. Kiely that they're still working on it. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting A.T.A. KIELY : Yea an inspection was done and they're working on making a final determination on the application for the Pre C.O. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Did they get in? Did Gary get in? A.T.A. KIELY : Yes he got in. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh he did cause my understanding is he went out there and it was locked and he couldn't get in. Alright then why don't we just do this let's just adjourn to next month by then I'm sure it will be done one way or another and then we'll know what we're doing. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : I just like to give some testimony on this which I did not do the last time. I rented from Mr. Murray from 1971 to 1978. I lived on Delmar Drive it was the first house on Delmar Drive and Mr. Murray ran a very, very tight ship. He was a very wonderful individual and somebody that you never really wanted to cross with because then you didn't have a slip but at the time that I rented I there were seven slips in the marina okay. There was always some controversy on going close to the bridge because it inhibited people going underneath and trans-versing underneath the bridge so there was another slip that was against the bulkhead. It was used very temporarily by a small dredge. In those days the county used to come in and dredge the mouth of the inlet and they would leave the dredge there overnight but that dredge that slip which was a horizontal slip to the bulkhead was never there was never a boat there. It was specifically for county use when they came in and that was the story. There were no bathroom facilities as there appear to be now and so that's the story and I just wanted to enter that into the record. I'm not in any way trying to inhibit anybody from doing anything that they want to do what their legal rights are. I'm just telling you that I utilized this facility for that period of years. It was from January 1, 1971 to the summer of 1978. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright is there anything from the Board? Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to address the application? DAN ROSS : I just want to note a couple of things for the record. One the application before the Board and I believe before the Building Inspector was for fourteen slips and that's amended to eleven based on a review of Building Department records first item. Second item I just want the record to reflect that last time I handed up an affidavit by Walter Koch sworn to on 12/3/2015 I don't think I mentioned that in that part of the record. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay alright Dan very good so we'll just wait till the Building Department finishes it's processing and we'll put you on for let's see what's the date for the next February 4th do 9:30? Do we have anything that's pressing? We'll put you down for noon on the 4th. I just made a motion is there a second? January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) HEARING #6904— DAVID A. ROSENBAUM CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for David A. Rosenbaum # 6904. This is a request for variance from Article III Section 280-14 and the Building Inspector's November 9, 2015 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for building permit for conversion of an attic to "as built" habitable space to an existing dwelling at 1) more than the code required number of stories of two and a half located at 145 Brown Street (aka 726 Brown St) in Greenport New York. Is someone here to represent the applicant? JOAN CHAMBERS : Good morning I'm Joan Chambers. I live at 50620 Southold. I'm representing Mr. Rosenbaum. I think you were there yesterday. Everyone will agree that he's using the space as part of his house. The ceiling makes it legal as you said it's about seven foot six, seven foot seven percentage wise it works out he's about the head space. The only thing in his defense is that on the original plans that house was built with a finished attic with a good staircase with a door at the bottom sheetrock finished floor it's all on the original plans so it was kind of almost to be expected that sooner or later one of the owners of that home was going to open that door go upstairs and put some heat in it. The question is, is how we rectify it. I really don't think an exterior staircase from the third floor down is going to be a solution. There's no more lot coverage allowed on there. The house doesn't you know lend itself well to an exterior staircase and I think somehow an exterior staircases tend to make the next person that buys the house turn it into an apartment cause now it has a separate entrance from the outside and I understand the intent to not have three story buildings with apartments on the third floor so .'0000 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting the only solution I see and obviously I'm open to suggestions is to make it a safer space maybe by adding a sprinkler system. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think state code New York State code would require a fire suppression system of some sort cause the only other option of course is to rip it all out and convert it back to attic space. JOAN CHAMBERS : Exactly but as I said then the next person that buys the house because of the nature of the roof and the height up there and the stairs is just going to convert it back into living space again we're just sort of keep rotating this as I said I'm open to suggestions. I'm sorry I wasn't there yesterday to talk it over with you I had babysitting conflict. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We're not allowed to talk to you anyway. JOAN CHAMBERS : I know but you know just to be there just for politeness sake but MEMBER GOEHRINGER : The applicant was very gracious. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea all we needed to do was just to see exactly what is there to confirm what the application says. JOAN CHAMBERS : Yea and whether anyone could construe that is storage I don't know he has furniture up there he obviously sits up there and watches television and plays guitar. He's converted that into livable space in his home. You know both of those houses were built I think intending that to happen and I mean the mirror house next door I don't know the person I've never been in their house but I'm assuming they've got the same thing too but that's neither here nor there. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I believe that was the architect the one who's living next door who actually did one for himself and one for spec. JOAN CHAMBERS : That's right yes and I think that architect is still living in that house too from the original you know who drew the original plans who took it just you know to that thirty four feet. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well its height conforming so I think under the circumstances (inaudible) fire suppression system in there to protect the safety of the applicants. JOAN CHAMBERS : Right it doesn't lend itself well to become an apartment because it doesn't have an exterior entrance and you know I can't imagine you know renting to a tenant 'J. 1111r. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well there is no plumbing up there. I mean there's no bathroom, there's no nothing it's just a heated conditioned space that's been sheet rocked based on where the rafters are and it's you know habitable because of the height. JOAN CHAMBERS : Well I mean you know would dropping the ceiling change anything, probably not. If we drop the ceiling by three inches people will still use the space. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Of course just better to make people safe. JOAN CHAMBERS : Better to make people safe and to just you know bend our way around a regulation. So you know I'm open to your interpretation on that that's my best suggestion is to you know ask Mr. Rosenbaum to get a fire suppression in there. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What do you say anybody Eric? MEMBER DANTES : I'm just the fire suppression how much would that cost? JOAN CHAMBERS : The last fire suppression estimate I did for a customer was doing the whole second floor of her house and it was about $15,000. MEMBER DANTES : Cause I'm just thinking I mean but then he has to go back he has to take the sheetrock out to put the system in right and put it back. JOAN CHAMBERS : You know surely I'm hoping to find I've heard there's another fire suppression company opened up in Riverhead and I'm going to talk to them and surely someone is coming up with a way to do just an attic room. This isn't the only family who's struggling with this so I really can't say for sure what this is going to cost. If he has to remove sheetrock surely that's not as onerous as tearing out the you know all the sheetrock and the finished floors and the heat. You know if that's what he has to do to have this you know considered a habitable part of his house I you know we'll just have to look at the cost of it. MEMBER DANTES : What would have to be done to make it a conforming attic? JOAN CHAMBERS : To make it a conforming attic? Well as I said we have to somehow or other lower the height of the ceiling, remove the sheetrock and the heat. I'm assuming that would be a definition if it wasn't habitable but the thing is a few small you know baseboards up there if you pull them out they just put them back in you know it's kind of like saying this isn't a kitchen if we yank the stove out and then any minute the building inspector is down the street the stove goes back in so not heat would make it into an attic but it's still be very usable space especially in the summer I mean it's probably you know usable for eight months of the year without the heat on as it is. So dropping the ceiling height or taking the staircase out and putting in pull down stairs but that's January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's huge. JOAN CHAMBERS : That's huge and expensive and you know and it brings up safety issues anyway those pull down stairs are treacherous in my opinion. MEMBER DANTES : My other question was looking at the plans here it says finished attic on elevation but is there a floor plan that actually has a finished space? JOAN CHAMBERS : I drew a floor plan is part of my submission. The floor plan that the architect drew the ones your opening up now do not show an attic plan just on the sections particularly on page 2 in the upper right hand corner on the section you'll see that it shows finished floor and sheetrock but when you read the inspection reports from I forget what year it was maybe 1986 the building inspector went in and inspected the house made a note that the attic was not to be finished and that the door at the bottom was to be insulated and weather stripped because the attic wasn't heated so somewhere from 1986 on so in other words although those plans were submitted for the permit they did not allow them to be built as those plans show because the plan shows sheetrock and finished floors and that was not done in 1986. It was caught by the building inspector so a subsequent owner has the been the person who you know finished it up and put some heat up there. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ken anything? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : No. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Gerry? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : No I think that it can be (inaudible) sprinkled if it has to be. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well you just need to investigate what kind of fire suppression system makes sense as long as it's New York State building code conforming. JOAN CHAMBERS : Okay I'll do that. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And certainly I don't suspect there are I think two bedrooms on the second floor bathrooms there I think probably no plumbing is probably also a good idea up there we don't want to just start to be a master bedroom suite up there. JOAN CHAMBERS : Correct I understand. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Cause it's better to just use it as you know living room space or recreational space or library and not people sleeping up there. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting JOAN CHAMBERS : Yea well to my knowledge there's no plumbing up there or plans for plumbing or you know kitchenettes or any of that stuff it's just sort of you know that kind of natural human expansion in every corner of our house and but you know I agree we need to do something to make it safer. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you're okay with indicating no sleeping or a bathroom or kitchen. JOAN CHAMBERS : Absolutely sure. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Condition it that way so future owners will be informed that there are some limits to what they should do up there fire suppression per state code. MEMBER DANTES : My only concern Leslie is they might have to demo so much of it to get the fire suppression in it might not be a conditioned space once the demolition is done and then CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : For it to be habitable it would have to be. MEMBER DANTES : If they demo it it won't be habitable. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well the point is they want it to be habitable. If we allow them to have habitable space based on state fire code then the limits to what they can do up there then the burden is on them to accomplish it you know it's whatever JOAN CHAMBERS : I'm not an expert on fire suppression but a couple of my customers have used it and you know it's basically running a water line into your ceiling. I don't think we'll have to demolish 75% of this attic to get a water line into the ceiling but as I said I'm really not an expert on that. I'll try to talk to someone who is about it. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well the Board has granted quote attic space to be habitable under certain circumstances always with fire suppression systems never with sleeping or with plumbing bathroom or kitchen facilities and you know the house is very tall and very narrow and you know it's already in there. It works fine. I don't have a problem with it as long as it's safe. The height is conforming to the code so I'm alright with that unless you know I think I don't know MEMBER GOEHRINGER : You have straight walls so I mean the straight walls are easy you know you cut a notch in each wall all the way down to the basement and I can't see if you can snake wires for electrical you can snake wires for a fire suppression system JOAN CHAMBERS : That's what I'm thinking. I think you can use the flexible pex now so it's not you know not opening the wall up and copper in there and as I said I'm hoping there's some new technology out there too. 00 5 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting MEMBER GOEHRINGER : There is because they've used it on the big houses anything over five thousand square feet now for insurance company to insure it has to have a full fire suppression system and they are not using steel anymore. They're using a type of pex as you just stated. The one that I looked at was one we had an application on for a storage area on the third story. The name was Jud on that I think. JOAN CHAMBERS : Okay I'm going to look into it. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address this application? Please come forward. BERNARD PERSELL : My name is Bernard Persell I live at 813 Linnet his back yard neighbor. I'm not fully familiar with the house but I can see it and instead I'm thinking instead of taking the house apart and fire suppression you're getting in a lot of money he has a very big window at the back of that room. It appears to be from the ceiling to the floor. Make the window open that way if you're sitting in there and you can't get down the staircase open the window and worse come to worse you have to jump and you're not going to go that far so you're gonna live. I mean it's cheaper than taking a house apart. I don't think you're worried about putting a fire out in the house. I'll be worried more about just getting someone out of that room. My suggestion is just have him make that window so he can open up the window and if he has to go he can go right out the window. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : State code will still require him to we don't have any jurisdiction over New York State building code. They are going to require fire suppression. BERNARD PERSELL : Yea they're eventually gonna it's in Albany now. They're working on it the new houses will have it but for now with his house I don't have no problem with him doing whatever he's doing up there we don't really care what he does in his house. My only concern is if he's in that attic or if someone's in that attic and they have to get out use the back window. I think that would be a whole lot cheaper than him tearing his house apart. I mean the houses built the same time so the house is pretty much up to code but that's MEMBER GOEHRINGER : We in the past sir required a fire suppression system and a ladder okay that you would throw out. BERNARD PERSELL : Yea you can do that. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : It was a combination of both of those things. BERNARD PERSELL : You can have a ladder you can actually bolt a ladder onto the back of his house you can buy them. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting MEMBER GOEHRINGER : No this is a chain ladder that you drop out the window. BERNARD PERSELL : Yea window out it go that's one way of doing it or you could actually there are different ways of doing it but that's a quick way of doing it but I wouldn't you know I can't see the man tearing his house apart that window open and he can get out of it if he's up there watching tv I don't think the room is big enough to live in it. I don't think you have to worry about anyone living up there. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's pretty small. BERNARD PERSELL : Yea it's tiny from what I can see it's very tiny but he's got a big exit window to get out of that's the only thing I can see and I have no problem with what he does in his house. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay thank you very much anyone else? Hearing no further questions or comments I make a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to later date. Is there a second? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) HEARING #6905—PATRICIA A. MISTRETTA CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Patricia A. Mistretta # 6905 is the next application before the Board. This is a request for a Special Exception under Article III Section 280-13B(14). The applicant is the owner requesting authorization to establish an Accessory Bed and Breakfast accessory and incidental to the residential occupancy in this single family dwelling with two (2) bedrooms for January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting lodging and serving of breakfast to the B&B casual, transient roomers. Location of the property is 26755 Main Rd in Cutchogue. Would you like to come to the mic please and just state your name for the record we're recording the testimony. PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Good morning my name is Patricia Mistretta. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good morning. With B&B's there is a set of standard which we just check off. Owner occupied you provided documentation to indicate this is your principal residence correct? PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Yes. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : A couple of us have been there to inspect the property. One thing that is required by the standards is one parking space for each bedroom and you have two well sort of a pull off area and two parking spaces for the principal dwelling and I know you have just yourself and the one car. Could you move your car up technically far enough to have two cars in there if you had a guest of your own? PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Yes. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay so you do have four parking spaces on site? PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Yes. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So we have the survey and by hand it says car one car two and then it says owner parking okay so you maintain we could certainly fit two cars in that space? PATRICIA MISTRETTA : That's correct. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. Now you're right along the Main Rd. and you do have it's a little tight you know jack knifing back and forth to get probably be better to actually well it doesn't matter whether you back in or pull in the two spaces but I certainly would not want to see anybody backing out onto the Main Rd. It's very dangerous plus it's a big hedge row actually next to you as I recall so some sort of small appropriate signage by the parking spaces or at the entrance to your driveway would be appropriate simply make sure for safety reasons that people don't back out. Let's see if there's any questions from the Board. Is there first of all is there anything you'd like to tell us? PATRICIA MISTRETTA : No. I'm very excited about it and looking forward to it and you know if there's anything that I need to comply with I'd be happy to work with you to make it a safer or you know whatever it is that we have to do but basically I'm just looking forward to it. I think January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting it's going to be an asset to the community and I think people will enjoy staying there. It's a charming home. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's a cute house. Okay Eric anything? MEMBER DANTES : I do not have any questions. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ken? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Just a technicality with the parking. Do we are we going to write this in ourselves or are we going to have her write this in for the two parking for the owner or how do you want to treat this? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : She actually has it shown. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well she does says dwelling parking. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Owner parking car one car two. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Car two are for the bedrooms. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : For the bedrooms so we're going to assume the owner parking is for two spaces. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is for two spaces. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Agreed? PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Agreed yes. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : So I'll mark it that there's two and CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We need to put a condition about the signage about no backing out onto MEMBER SCHNEIDER : No backing out sign on (inaudible) and this floor plan is acceptable it's not by an architect but it's from a mortgage company I guess it looks like it's to scale right? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Yep. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Good. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's acceptable and it's accurate. 'Ji.110 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting MEMBER SCHNEIDER : And it's a one and a half story dwelling? I know the survey says it's wood frame residence doesn't describe the number of stories or anything but it's one and a half story? PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Yes. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : It's deceiving it's deceiving until you go into the house and it finally takes you upstairs it doesn't look like it's a two story house but it really is. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : So you're saying it's a two story house or one and a half story? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Well it's really one and a half story but I mean in reality you can walk to the CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well it's comfortable habitable space up in the attic area that you've made into sort of a little studio thing. PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Yes exactly. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : And that's going to be your room? PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Yes. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Okay. I have no other questions. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Gerry anything? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : No not at all. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone in the audience? PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Just thought of one thing. That signage out front if I were to put a small sign out with the name of the business a bed and breakfast is there any restrictions on where or size? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Just the size primarily a lot of B&B's have small signs out MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Two square feet or something? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's in the code but you can check with the Building Department. Just say what's the biggest size sign I can put out on my property to advertise there's a B&B there and the same would be no backing out onto Main Rd. MEMBER DANTES : Are you (inaudible) across the street from you? January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting PATRICIA MISTRETTA : Yes Sunnyside up yes. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay anything from anybody else? Hearing no further questions or comments I make a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to later date. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER GEOHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) HEARING #6906— BARBARA RUBENSTEIN CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This is a garage addition to a single family dwelling with a 29 feet front yard setback where the code requires 35 feet. This is a corner property so there are two front yards and this is an attached garage. So we can't is there anyone in the audience who wishes to address the application? Why don't you go to the mic please and state your name and where you live. TOM SCHANKEL : Good afternoon or good morning and I don't know I'm still thinking about the hot flashes and the baby and good which way to go. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Would you state your name please. TOM SCHANKEL : Yes my name is Tom Schankel and I live at 285 Emory Rd in Cutchogue and we have no problem with our neighbor wanting to attach a garage to her home but we do not agree with the variance to override the 35 foot setback from Emory Rd. This will have a permanent impact on the look and feel of our beautiful neighborhood in Cutchogue. Our block will start to resemble the suburban sprawl that we all want to avoid. It is in the best interest of the Town of Southold to uphold the 35 foot setback from Emory Rd. and all other streets within January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting its domain. Give our neighbor the garage but stay within the parameters that were designed to protect us all. Granting this variance would be a setback to the very essence of the Peconic Land Trust and certainly to the residents of Emory Rd. While some may think it's only a few feet how much of an impact can it have, well what if we all just wanted to bend the rules by a few feet. We feel these extra feet will impact the look of our block. I was always taught many years ago that rules were made for a reason and we are petitioning the Southold Town Zoning Board to protect the Emory Rd. to protect the residents of Emory Rd. by enforcing the building code. Remember vinyl is final and that's what we'll see when we take a walk down Emory. Thank you. REGINA SCHANKEL : I'm sorry. My name is Regina Shankel and I live with my husband at 285 Emory Rd. and I'm reading a letter from Elaina and Kevin Creeron who I think they also e-mailed it here and okay we respectfully request that the variance for 2735 Beebe Dr. Cutchogue NY be denied. We purchased our home in the Town of Southold due to the open and spacious environment the town provides. We happily paid our tax to the Peconic Land Trust when we purchased this home with the hopes that the integrity of the neighborhood would be maintained. This variance request seems to be in direct conflict of the Peconic Land Trust mission to maintain the rural nature of the area including Emory Rd. We hope the Town of Southold continues to enforce the existing building guidelines in order to maintain the quaint and rural charm that makes up the town such a nice place in which we live. We hope our concerns are taken into account and that we request for this variance to be denied. MEMBER DANTES : So I have a question for you guys. So you're saying you want him to cut the garage back by it looks like seven feet six and half feet. TOM SHANKEL : Exactly. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's a one car garage. No no no I'm sorry you need to go to the mic. If you want to make a comment that's absolutely fine but it's recorded so you have to be in front of a microphone. REGINA SHANKEL : Do you mean it's a one car garage now or it's with taking the seven foot off makes it a one car? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes. REGINA SHANKEL : I was gonna say I had several versions of letters and in one of the versions I was going to say that less can be more in many cases and in the case of this garage I feel that you know as a resident I have a big family and we have a single garage and I have adequate storage for my kayaks and my canoes and my car and you know I don't I don't see the need for getting a variance and having an oversized garage and certainly not in the location where it would be because it would have a definite impact on all of us on the block. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : State your name please. KAREN RAFFEL : Yes good morning. My name is Karen Raffel I live at 405 Emory Rd. in Cutchogue. I'm a very new member of the community in fact I just had the small home built right next to them right next door and the primary reason believe me it took me years to find the perfect place to build my home and I knew I wanted to be in the township of Southold because it is beautiful and my mother grew up in Mattituck and as I was building my home I remember getting frustrated at times because there's lots of variances and laws my mom always reminded me she said Karen one of the reasons you wanna buy in Southold is because they uphold their rules and regulations and I don't have any you know experience in government but I am an experienced teacher twenty seven years and I call it the slippery slope and I think that one of the primary reasons Southold township is so beautiful is that they do uphold their codes and in the classroom it's the same thing. You let one kid do one little thing and then boom. I'm concerned just like my neighbor is I have I understand the woman who wants to build the garage she has a right to build one but we all have one car garages. I also built a one car garage. I have a large SUV I have ample space and I really believe that if we you know seven seven and a half extra feet whatever it is it is going to start changing the look of the neighborhood. All neighborhoods in the township of Southold look beautiful. You can look down the street. There's a good view it's just nice and it's quaint and I'm just very concerned especially after having just gone through all the hoops to have a house built the right way and to do you know to follow the correct rules and rules are made for a reason so I am very very concerned about it and I just petition and hope that the Board will agree that the rules and the laws are there for a reason and that they should be upheld. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay thank you. TOM SCHNAKEL : I just want to say one other thing and that is because of the Christmas holiday and New Year's you know many of us did not even find out about this hearing on you know for one reason or another until the last moment and you know and I contacted the people that were immediately abutting this particular situation but there are other that I could you know speak to and I'm sure they would all concur but you know if that were necessary but you know this was done on short notice and yes for us and in fact Karen even took off a day from work today to be here which I really appreciate. CHAIRPERPERSON WEISMAN : I think someone in the back of the room wanted to speak. MARY GIVEN : Hi my name is Mary Given. I'm Colin Ratsey's secretary and I don't know why he isn't here. He must of gotten tied up on a job but just to directly answer that last comment about the last minute notification January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting MEMBER DANTES : I'm sorry are you here to represent the applicant ma'am? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes. MARY GIVEN : Yes. I am. Thank you. We did everything by the law. We got those notices out to people when we promptly picked up our packet from the ZBA so any short notice we have no we're powerless over that. We did what we were asked to do in a timely fashion. I also hear their comment about the laws are the laws and the codes are the codes and are in place for a reason there's a ZBA for a reason as well. If you couldn't apply for a variance there would be no need for this Board. I don't understand I'm sorry that I was late I expected Colin to be here but this gentlemen's I'm not understanding if there are objecting that their view is going to be diminished. The placement of the garage is directly with her home. The only view that will be lost is the back yard Mrs. Rubenstein's yard. There are barriers on Emory Rd. natural barriers, vegetation and trees. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ma'am you have to address the Board not. SOMEONE FROM THE AUDIENCE : I'm sorry. MARY GIVEN : I'm not when I had gone to the ZBA someone had said that there were some people in looking at the plans and something about their view being taken away and I'm not clear on what view that is that they feel they're losing but I would appreciate being told that like I said the only thing is her back yard. If you look at the plans the garage is going to go adjacent right to her home so I don't think it's an excessive amount of the variance is an excessive in any way shape or form. In my opinion we've applied for other more extensive variances and have been granted them. If there are any other questions I will attempt to answer them but unfortunately I was late. I'm sorry and I did not hear some of the prior comments. MEMBER DANTES : Can I ask you a couple of questions? Mostly it's why do you need the variance cause it looks like you have alternatives that are code conforming that might work. I mean why not just cut the garage back by six and a half feet and have a conforming 35 foot side yard setback? MARY GIVEN : Colin would be able to answer that more accurately but I think that he may be open to that. I can't speak but that is alternative. I was just trying to state that variances are requested all the time. I mean there's a Zoning Board of Appeals exactly for that reason. I just wanted to make that noted. You know if no one came before you we would have no need for this Board you know. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well one of the things that is important to note in the evaluation the Zoning Board gives to these applications is that again it's always a balancing test between the reasonable rights of property owners and the welfare of the community. When someone has a corner lot I do myself actually over where my house is there is some consideration given to the fact that It's really in some ways a side yard if you look at the front of the house which is certainly less than 35 foot setback but because it's a corner lot and there is two streets anything with street frontage is considered a front yard even though they're not using it as a front yard it's their side yard so this is sometimes why we wind up giving something additional consideration because of the burden of having two front yards which is more restrictive in terms of setbacks. I just wanted them to be aware of that fact that's all. I'm not saying what the Board will or won't do I'm just saying that that's something that we consider. MEMBER DANTES : The only question can you just explain why you need the variance. Why not just cut the garage back by six and half feet at a code conforming front yard setback? COLIN RATSEY : I'm Colin Ratsey I'm sorry I was at the wrong place. I was having a nice lunch outside and I went inside I was in the wrong building. The garage isn't really big enough for a car and a little bit of more space. The whole purpose of this is so the lady doesn't have to go old folks home. She's going to put a three foot staircase in and then she's going to have a car lot and to get out of the car she needs a little bit of room. She needs it you know that's the common garage. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :This is a twenty two foot wide garage. COLIN RATSEY : Yes ma'am that's right. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : A two car garage or one car? COLIN RATSEY : She's going only put one car in it but if you figure the car the width of the car okay and then stuff to put on the side of the garage and then she's going to have a staircase to go in the garage as the plan shows. The problem is she's never had a garage she's outside. She has a pebble driveway she wants to access her house and the only way to access her house without you know doing something that's no good is you know to put a ramp that's not gonna help her. She's gonna have to have someone shovel it so we designed a garage so that she can pull in the garage there's not much room once you get out of the car to shut the door and then walk up a set of stairs and go right into the house. That was the original plan of the house when they did it but the plans were no good so I had to rewrite them I had to redraw the plans. She has a berm on the side of her property it's got to be four five feet high with trees above it. MEMBER DANTES : Which side? 5 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting COLIN RATSEY : On the side where the garage is going so CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Emory Rd? COLIN RATSEY : Yes ma'am. So if I built the garage right to the property line you couldn't see it from the road anyhow so totally it's a she built a quiet berm there because when she was in her back yard years ago it was so noisy and the lights from everybody making the turn it came into her back yard so she literally took her deck and moved it to the farthest side of her property and she put a berm there with trees. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Can I ask a question? Colin isn't there some way of decreasing the overall length of the garage? COLIN RATSEY :The length inward or the width? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : The width basically. COLIN RATSEY : Can I see the plan again I'm sorry I'm building a garage right now and my brain is a little fried. So when you figure that you have to come in a little bit on each side and then you're to put the car in the door is going to be sixteen feet, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty one, twenty two, twenty three it should be twenty four I made it twenty two. Now there's twenty eight six on the property line that's to the property line. There's a berm that's there that comes in to the property almost four feet. I'm sure you guys went there and saw the property so MEMBER GOEHRINGER : All been there. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes we did site inspection. COLIN RATSEY : The twenty foot six is over on the other side of the berm. This lady has already given up five feet of her property by putting a berm on the property line. MEMBER DANTES : Who owns the berm? COLIN RATSEY : She owns it. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well then why is it sighted as being twenty nine feet from the property line? COLIN RATSEY : She owns the garage is here it's twenty foot six to her property line then the berm comes in from her property line almost four feet five feet she has a garden with trees coming in. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea we saw it. COLIN RATSEY : So what I'm saying is she's already put screening in and everything on that side of the property. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No what I'm asking is the survey shows not to the berm the survey shows to the property line. COLIN RATSEY : Yes ma'am that's what we're the berm has nothing I didn't draw the berm in here because CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :The berm is just visual screening. COLIN RATSEY : Yes ma'am but it's not something that she's going to take down she would need a bulldozer. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No no I'm not suggesting that either I'm just trying to COLIN RATSEY : What is the exact distance that I'm supposed to have twenty nine? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You're supposed to have thirty five feet and hold on is that the berm. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : I don't think it's to scale. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This doesn't look right. This is showing this row of shrubs actually outside of the property line on the shoulder that's what the survey is showing. It's actually 28.6 to the property line according to this survey by Nathan Taft Corwin. The berm that's showing the shrubs and so on row of shrubs is actually planted on the shoulder. COLIN RATSEY : Right so then to the road would be almost another seven to eight feet. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Probably but the point is that we can only do setbacks from the actual property line the rest is the town shoulder. COLIN RATSEY : Well in this neighborhood there's plenty of houses close on the property line down the road that were built before. I'll help you any way I can but what's I don't understand who's are these people live on the side they're complaining that they can't see. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :They're on Emory. COLIN RATSEY : Okay first off the building that I'm building is going to be lower than the house that's there. It's only one addition very low. It's going to be the same vinyl siding that's on there. You're not even going to be able to see it from the road. I mean January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What is the height you're proposing? COLIN RATSEY : I want to understand. Right now they're looking in her bedroom windows. Now they're going to look at nothing but a nice one car garage on the side. The side of the house honestly is an architect's nightmare. When I finish with it it's going to have some detail to it. It's an old lady that just wants a garage. There's nothing I'm not doing you know me I'm not doing anything bad to the house. I'm making the house actually look a little better because this was just one of those throw up get done and leave. I'm keeping the roof line the same and I'm just cutting it down in the back. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What is the height of the garage proposed height? We have the plans but I don't know if it's called out let me take a look. Wait I have the plans here. Let me take a look and see if it's called out. COLIN RATSEY : The roof line isn't even matching it it's going to stay below. See this here this is the roof line this is the existing chimney this is just lower than the whole house. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Got it. COLIN RATSEY : I mean I can move it back a little bit if you want if you don't want the frontage in the front I can move her driveway back a little bit. Will that help? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well I mean you already have on Beebe you have a conforming setback and if you're sliding it back farther it's not changing the setback to Emory so you're not gaining anything really and it probably COLIN RATSEY : If it was to impede on the corner or something like that where they thought it was impeding which I don't see how it could it's almost fifty feet away I would move it back a little. I'm willing to work with you anyway I can. Here's the problem most of the people that live out here they can't afford to stay here. This woman was a teacher her husband was a teacher. Her husband died and she has no family here so these people end up in Peconic Landing for ten thousand a month or we try to help them out. All I'm doing is building her a garage so she can pull in the garage walk up two steps into her house. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is that the smallest width that you can possibly manage? Because it looks to me like COLIN RATSEY : I can maybe cut it down a foot. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It looks to me like it's a two car garage from the scale of the when I look at the front elevation and I look at the doors. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting COLIN RATSEY : Just so you know a car doesn't fit in an eight foot door anymore and when you get in a car if this is a car and you open the door of the car the car door opens all the way up to here okay so by the time you take an eight foot car and open the door three feet what's happening with the cars today is the doors are longer they're not shorter. You go out to any of your cars and you open that door it's out in the middle of traffic. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : May I ask another question? Colin what are the garage doors come in they come in COLIN RATSEY : Eight and sixteens. Customs is ten and seventeens, eighteens. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : They make fourteens don't they? COLIN RATSEY : Yea it's the same as a sixteen. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Let's go with a sixteen first. So at sixteen with two feet on both sides you can go twenty is that correct? COLIN RATSEY : Yep. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Okay if you went fourteen with two feet on both sides okay or can you do that you can do eighteen. COLIN RATSEY : I'll tell you what can you go to somebody else and I'll come back? I'll go outside and do some measuring. Is that fair enough?And see if we can solve this situation. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think some of the neighbors want to make some comments. Well here's the Colin you indicated I just don't want to ask you a question you indicated that there are other non-conforming front yard setbacks? COLIN RATSEY : Yea they're all over the place down there. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : On Emory. Can you provide us with COLIN RATSEY : Ma'am I just want to see if we can solve this situation and get it this lady you know I'm not trying to be rude but this lady might be dead in six months seven months CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Wait wait wait wait hold on just a minute. First of all we do not personalize variance relief COLIN RATSEY : I'm not asking that. I'm trying to work with the neighborhood. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : they run with the land so what her personal circumstances are has nothing to do with what's before this Board. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting COLIN RATSEY : Okay but just so you know we've been doing this for three months so far since we first started you know the way it works around here. It's not like Riverhead it's not like Greenport and it's not like you know it's totally different so we've been working for a long time so I just I'll work with the people I have no problem with anybody. I'm always here to help the community. I give more back to the community than ninety five percent of the people in the town. I'll be glad to help it just give me a minute to go measure a car and I'll figure out this and come up with a plan. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Why don't we do that. Let's just see what you can come up with absolutely. We will just suspend this for a moment. You may speak while he's going COLIN RATSEY :Ten minutes. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's fine. We can recess. No, no, no we have to wait till he's back in here because it's fair I mean you want to hear what he has to say he needs to hear what you have to say so not yet. SOMEONE FROM THE AUDIENCE : I just want to know if I can respond to his comments. A.T.A. KIELY : No he has to be here. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can when he's back in here. A.T.A. KIELY : He's the applicant. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : He'll be right back. The applicant has all interested parties will be heard but they have to be heard procedurally in a way that allows everyone to hear everything that's the only fair way to do it. Don't no talking now. I'm going to make a motion to recess this hearing is there a second? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What we're going to do is give them some time and we're going to move on to the are we on time to move on to the next one? Alright we're going to move on to the next application and when we're done with that then we'll go back to this one. HEARING #6910—JOHN MAXWELL and BERKELEY BAYNE SOPER CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for John Maxwell and Berkeley Bayne Soper # 6910. This is a request for variance from Article III Section 280-15 and the Building Inspector's December 1, 2015 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for building permit for an accessory garage at 1) proposed in location other than the code required rear yard located at 274 Top of the World (aka Private Rd No. 7) on Fishers Island. Hi Sam would you just state your name for the record please Sam. SAM FITZGERALD : My name is Sam Fitzgerald. I'm the architect for the project and also the agent for the owners Max Soper and Berkeley Soper. This is 274 Top of the World the road got its name because it leads to the highest point on the island. This is an aerial view of the area. This is East End Rd here the main road down the island. This is Top of the World here at the very top is a water tank and the grades drop down significantly on all sides from the water tank and the Soper's lot is on the side of this hill. This is the Soper's lot again it's on the side of the hill. The high ground on the lot is in the northeast corner and they the lot slopes down principally to the south but also in this case to the east as well. The lot is it's covered with thick natural growth vegetation. When the house was built in the early 80's they found the only spot on the lot that they could build given the steep slopes and that's in the northeast corner and they cut and filled to make a flat shelf for the house and this flat shelf really only covered or was the only size for the house itself except for a little bit more. There's a little bit of flat lawn here and here and a thin sliver of lawn on the north side. The house is it's orientation is east west which follows the natural contours of the site and architecturally not zoning wise but architecturally the front of the house is on the north side over here and the south side is sort of the back of the house which has commanding views of block island sound. We are proposing an accessory garage structure in the front yard. There is room in the rear yard to build a garage however our particular difficulty here is that we can't get to it. Then again we can build the garage but trying to construct a driveway back to the rear yard would be a would create a significant negative environmental impact on the property and just very very briefly here I want to just we tried to look at a different driveway options. This is looking from the other side from 'J; January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting the southwest the yellow is the required rear yard. This is top of the road here the driveway so basically would have two options to try to get to the rear yard to try to put a garage there. One would be along the north side or and the other would be along the south side. If we went along this is the house right now is elevation ninety two and it slopes down to elevation fifty five so it's quite steep and there's a very steep slope here so we would have to come down here down this steep slope across the lot and somehow back up and the slopes of these hills are actually greater than the maximum allowed for a driveway so we would have to do some sort of system of sort of switchbacks or something to get back up here and it would be a massive earthwork operation and our engineer says that it's actually just not possible. The other option would be to try to carve out a driveway from the north side through here which would mean carving out five or six feet of the hill on this side putting in a new retaining wall cutting back the forest. Then trying to snake the driveway in between the house, an existing shed and somehow put the garage back here and also provide enough room for cars to turn around and again it's just not practical and the environmental impact on the lot would be huge for what I would think would be a needless exercise. When there is a really obvious viable alternative which is to put the garage in the front yard right next the existing driveway and so what happened is all of the construction equipment would stay on the driveway. We'd dig a twenty by twenty hole and would have a little bit of connection from the garage to the existing driveway very very minimal impact to the environment. You would not see the garage from the main road because there is very very tree lines right here. No neighbor would see the garage. It's setback eighty feet from the front yard which is greater than the principal setback or for setback for a principal structure and I might add that if we actually put the garage in the required rear yard that neighbors would see it four or five neighbors would see it. In this case no neighbors would see it and the garage would not block any of the views from the house because the view is not that way and given our very significant site constraints this seems like the most viable option for us. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric. MEMBER DANTES : My question is I think you addressed the problems of the terrain in the rear yard why not just attach the garage to the house? SAM FITZGERALD : Right and that's something that we considered as well. That would be that would I think be a detriment to the house itself and also create more of a construction project that I don't think that we would need to undertake. So right now site plan here is the proposed garage the only viable first of all we don't have very much flat land as I said around the house. The only viable place for a garage to be added onto the house would be here but the grade slopes off very sharply here which would mean that we would have to create more of a step footing a much deeper foundation and it would a very complicated construction project to tie in January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting to the existing house whereas this is very easy. Also the issue here is that this is a bedroom. There are three bedrooms in the house this is one of them. There's no air conditioning in the house so we're relying on cross ventilation so this bedroom right here has it has windows on this side and on this side here so this bedroom would lose its windows. It would be more much more of an effort to actually try to put in a new driveway up a steep slope right here to get to the garage and again it would be a much more difficult and much more construction project when there is a clearer viable alternative that makes sense. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright anything else Eric? Hold on one second Gerry. MEMBER DANTES : Would it be easier to drive a car into the garage the accessory garage as opposed to just as far as the driveway. SAM FITZGERALD : Oh yea we looked at it and it's you know the grade drops off pretty steeply so we'd have to so if we put the foundation right here the foundation would be as deep as if we had a basement just to get you know 42 inches below or the frost line so we'd have to probably so if we were to drop the garage down would have a retaining wall here on this side certainly just to be able to drive in straight. So it would create much more of a project to do it that way. MEMBER DANTES : So it would be difficult to drive into? SAM FITZGERALD : Oh yea absolutely. MEMBER DANTES : Easier to drive into the accessory garage at the proposed location? SAM FITZGERALD : and what we've done is this is we've also looked at it and we found the only real sort of flattish spot where we could drive in straight so there wouldn't be any regrading we can drive in straight right here and the foundation would be very deep. This is sort of a sweet spot where it's the only place that you know makes this work. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Gerry. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : For the record what's the studio going to be used for? SAM FITZGERALD : The owner his hobbies and there is no basement in the house you know they just did a crawl space because it was such difficult site so he wants to tinker around you know he has he makes models and things. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : So it will be heated the space will be heated? SAM FITZGERALD : Well it's going to be seasonal but I would probably assume it's heated just because but we haven't talked about that. I don't think they plan to be here in the season where they require heat but we haven't talked about it. 33 , January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Thank you . CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ken MEMBER SCHNEIDER : No questions. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don't have any questions either. Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to address the application? Hearing no further questions or comments I'll make a motion to close the hearing reserve the decision to later date. Is there a second? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) BACK TO HEARING # 6906— BARBARA RUBENSTEIN CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Motion to reconvene on the prior application for Rubenstein. Is there a second? MEMBER GEOHRINGER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay alright Colin what do you say? January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting COLIN RATSEY : My name is Colin Ratsey. I just want to ask a couple questions before we go picking on this lady that we're working for. The first question is we put that sign up way before it was supposed to be up. I put it up the 21st something like that. It wasn't supposed to be up till the 30th, 31st and then I sent out the mailings I don't mind that these people have a question on the job but they're not even on my mailing. So where do they live adjacent to this house? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Whoa, whoa, whoa you can't do that. A.T.A. KIELY :The only person who could speak is the person at the microphone okay thank you. SOMEONE FROM THE AUDIENCE : He keeps asking me questions. A.T.A. KIELY : No no write down questions and you'll have an opportunity to respond to them. COLIN RATSEY :The reason I'm asking is I googled this property and SOMEONE FROM THE AUDIENCE : Can I just give him CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Not yet. COLIN RATSEY : I googled this property and not only is there bushes on Emory Rd for the woman but the people across the street from her which would be doing the complaining have maybe thirty feet of bushes for almost a hundred and fifty feet of their property thirty feet deep so if you were to complain about this garage and look at this garage and if I ask you to tell me what color it is I don't think you could tell me on Emory what color the garage was or the house from anyone's house unless you were on the second floor. The only way to see this property and I'm going to show I'll be glad to show you this quickly is from the front. Now I'm willing to do whatever I have to do to help everybody you know I'm helping the schools at night I'll do whatever I can but I want to know why we're picking on this lady for this garage when if you look at this property line you'll see and I please pass the photo around you cannot this is her property right here is the garage look at the property in the back look at the property on the side the only way to complain and look at the property in the front you can't even see this lady's garage from anywhere. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : We've all been there. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We've all inspected this. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : We know it very well. COLIN RATSEY : So you understand what I'm saying? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : We do understand. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting COLIN RATSEY : So (inaudible away from microphone) helicopter I don't see what the problem is with the garage. MEMBER DANTES : Colin at least from my perspective the only question I really need you just to explain is why you need the twenty two feet and COLIN RATSEY : Okay I would like to do the twenty two feet so I can put a staircase open the doors and she can put her lawn equipment in the side of her garage. She has a shed in the back that is not great. It's way in the corner in a bush. She can't even see it from the property and I'm just trying to make her life a little easier. I mean if there's a major problem with the garage and I have to shrink it down we can talk about it but I first want to know what the problem is. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You were going to go outside to try to calculate. COLIN RATSEY : I can make it two feet smaller if I have to. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So twenty feet. COLIN RATSEY : Yes but it's just more of a burden for her now it's not a comfort MEMBER GOEHRINGER : I'm a little confused though if you don't mind me asking this question miss madam chairperson. You're now talking opening both doors you're not opening are both doors on a car going to be open or is one or is the driver's side COLIN RATSEY : Here's the way it works. The people no matter what you do they have to pull in forward so they pull in they open their door here they got to walk out of the car so now they have garbage all on the side of the garage. Garbage cans whatever else they have over there that's another couple of feet. Then they go around the back of the garage they got to get the groceries out of this side of the garage they open the car and then they have to go up the staircase. We normally make these garages twenty four feet. We're building one right now. We made this one twenty two because we saw we were out on the variance. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : I understand. MEMBER DANTES : About how wide is the car? COLIN RATSEY : I don't know she has an old time she has two cars right now. She has a smaller one and a bigger one. I think they're trying to get her out of the Cadillac cause she's not a very good driver. MEMBER DANTES : Well that's alright but how wide would you say (inaudible) January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting COLING RATSEY : A normal car is seven and half eight feet long and then the doors open three feet minimum. MEMBER DANTES : So that's eight plus six which is then fourteen right? COLIN RATSEY : No it ends up to be I went out and measured it's three feet it's a little bit more than three feet the garage door opens so it's three foot six the car is usually eight nine foot right and then another three foot six so that's three, six, nine, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty one with a staircase just you know it just kind of makes it but if I have to I'll do something you know. Maybe I can make it a little deeper and I'll put her stuff in the back. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Well that's what I was going to suggest. COLIN RATSEY : But I would like to just try to solve it and have a verbal agreement so we can move on because winter is here and I'm lucky that we're still pouring foundations now. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We will certainly we can't get a decision to you prior to two weeks from today which is the next meeting time and we will not hold up this one way or the other. Now I believe some neighbors had some comments that they'd like to make and just restate your name please. KAREN RAFFEL : Yes hi again my name is Karen Raffel and I am a direct neighbor to this property and I just was taking notes CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are you next door or across the street? KAREN RAFFEL : I am next door so I'm her house faces Beebe I am behind her. I actually bought the property from her. So my first point as I was taking notes was that as the gentleman is saying you can't see it. I certainly can see her house and I certainly can would be able to see a garage without question. When we're talking about view what we mean the look of the neighborhood. When you pull down Emory Rd. and you look straight down the road there are homes setback you don't see anything jutting out that's what we mean and that would be changed. When the gentleman said that Emory Rd. is filled with all kinds of I don't know mistakes or violations and somebody on the Board I don't remember who it was asked what violations there was no answer so I'd like to CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They are not violations necessarily but we were asking when we evaluate setbacks we look at character of the neighborhood is one of the standards and if there are some neighborhoods in which it's not at all uncommon to have non-conforming front yard setbacks so we would Ratsey suggested that there were non-conformities in the neighborhood with regard to setbacks. If that were the case then I would ask that it be verified as to which January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting properties have non-conforming front yard setbacks and that will then be a consideration but we need to have the information submitted if in fact that's the case. So I'm actually addressing the applicants as well as the neighbors. If everything else is conforming with regard to front yard setbacks along Emory and along Beebe then in fact this would be an anomaly it would not be characteristic of the neighborhood so that's how we evaluate. It's based on facts not feelings just facts. KAREN RAFFEL : Right that makes sense and one of the concerns that I have is that is has the gentleman had an opportunity just now and he has obviously the legal right I respect that but he did have the chance to pull up plans look at numbers crunch things pull up google I just one of the things I request is time for other people like myself and neighbors and other people to have that time too that's one you know CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :To do what? KAREN RAFFEL : To research things I mean to look at my house plans how big is my garage. I have a large SUV. I have steps that go I have a small modest home with a big SUV I keep all my stuff there as so we want to look at we should have the chance to look at numbers too. I'm just asking for time. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well that may be certainly possible. One thing I want to tell you is that we do drive around the neighborhoods and attached garages are characteristic of this neighborhood. Many people have attached garages. So that's something we would think about. The size of the attached garage is not important. The fact that they exist is all we need to know. What is important is whether or not there are other non-conforming front yard setbacks. KAREN RAFFEL : Right and I would assume it's also important is that this proposed garage does not it's beyond the setback that's the basic issue. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well that's why they're here. KAREN RAFFEL : Right. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They're here because they need an additional what twenty nine feet and they need they're six feet beyond what the code requires as a minimum setback. KAREN RAFFEL : The other point that I've written down is that I do want I know what my neighbors said you know I know what he did mean we did not mean to say that we got this information last minute. We did not. All that we think we mean is that it was a little bit more difficult with the holidays. I know one of the gentlemen across the street I can't get a hold of 3 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting him I'm pretty sure he's in Florida. The holidays it was a little bit harder that's all we meant but everything was (inaudible) CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We duly noticed according to the legal obligations of the applicant and it was also posted on the property properly and it was advertised in the paper. KAREN RAFFEL : But people are away that's all I'm saying you know but I'm saying they didn't do anything wrong with that. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No fault of the applicant. KAREN RAFFEL : No absolutely not. Let's see I meant as discussed with you I don't understand what the gentleman meant by the house is an architectural nightmare now I don't understand that. I sit on my front porch one of the things that I save my money for for years was to have a little screened in front porch and I don't see a nightmare. I see a small modest home that conforms to regulations and that's why I bought that house. I don't know what's meant by that. As far as putting a the need for space in a garage and needing you know I think of a garage she does have a large shed I can see as I said I can see everything from my back yard and front yard possibly you know people always put things in sheds. Maybe the shed can be moved to store some things it's a possibility. One thing that does concern me I know you folks are aware of this but when something is spoken it's spoken and you know I just hope nobody takes any personal comments like she's elderly or she may the term we're picking on her we're not picking on her. We like her, we're friendly with her I've been in her home. We're not picking we just want the laws to be upheld so we just hope I hope personally that you know if we're going to get personal I can talk about my elderly parents they're going move in with me and I have to CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I've already stated in the record so that all of you are quite clear we do not personalize variances. They run with the land. KAREN RAFFEL :Just that it's out there that's all. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well but I've already corrected that. We don't consider those kinds of comments because they're irrelevant. You could sell the house to a totally different person the next day and they could be horrible or they can be fabulous. We don't say gee nice guy grant the variance or oh don't like this one don't grant that's completely unprofessional and not possible so please understand that although people can get emotional sometimes about things we don't pay any attention to it because we can't it's not relevant. KAREN RAFFEL : Okay like I said I would like the consideration of maybe you know I know like I said I know the size I don't know the dimensions that's one of the things I'm saying I can't give numbers like this gentleman could but I could if I had time but things can be stored in sheds is 3 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting all I'm saying. You don't need I don't believe anybody needs, needs that much space. Need is a very big word and the suggestion maybe the gentleman said maybe we can move it back. That does not help me as a direct neighbor. That just puts it even closer to my house for me that and it would still have the same look when you look on Emory. I don't think that would fix anything. When asked the size of a car I know she has a very small car but it's one of the thing I wanted to mention and I just cause I did take notes I'm almost done. Let's see okay I guess that's all I had to say I'm just pleading with the Board to you know think about the concept of need realize that please I looked every place in the town of Southold and this was the best piece of property with the nicest look and it's why I love this town. My mother grew up here and it's a slippery slope as you know that's why you're here so please hear us. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anything else from anyone? Restate your name please. TOM SCHANKEL : Tom Shankel as I told you Mary Given came out to ask me my name and I gave the spelling and they googled and found out I just for the record I was the neighbor having the garage built. I was their neighbor for the past five years until Karen had her house constructed and I was very good friends with her husband and their car is a small fuel efficient car not a Cadillac. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I do want to say something about that though. No one should restrict the right of someone to buy a different car. You don't design a garage based on the car that you own at the moment. People buy cars and sell cars all the time. So it's just the setback we're looking at. TOM SCHANKEL : This is not just another job for the residents of Emory. This is where we live. This is where we live we're not moving on on that doing a job and then coming in with my head spinning it's where we live and I love our neighborhood I love it. I love my neighbors including the one that you know I took great offense to picking on the lady when you were not hear to even hear our comments our letters which can be read from the record and I also took offense to being the same thing that she may be dead in six months because I just had a nice conversation with her in King Kullen the other day CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Look look look TOM SCHANKEL : a nice conversation and she mentioned the garage. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We just already addressed those kinds of comments so please we have other hearings TOM SCHANKEL : All I'm going to say and I respect that I don't know what they call you your honor but I will say your honor I will respect that January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Just call me judge Judy. TOM SCHANKEL : Also I am also like Stanley and Bobby I am a retired teacher okay and I want to also just make a fact that there's virtually no traffic no traffic in our area. We live on a peninsula. I go out with my dog I wander the lonely streets every night I take my grandchildren CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Could you please address your comments to the setback variance. TOM SCHANKEL : Yes yes that being said when I hear things that are not facts I just wonder and I would just say this I would just say this I invite you because when it is when you live there I would invite you to pull down Little Neck come up Emory Rd. and see our beautiful vista and our beautiful neighborhood which we just want to keep it the way even if other people are architecturally critical I think everything was beautiful enough for me to invest my money in this neighborhood and I'm not asking to make a rule to bend a rule just to adhere to the rule that the Town of Southold in its infinite wisdom has said okay thirty five foot setback great idea not for me not for me you could do what you want but for the Town of Southold I think it's an excellent idea because just like a car neighbors change, people move but the setback should not change when I'm gone okay the setback should remain the same and not be compromised because this is what makes us a special place to live okay and you know it and I know it and I think the builder knows it and I was going to say that you know I want this neighbor to have her garage. I have a single maybe slightly over a single size garage. I have a stairway. I have kayaks. I have bicycles doors can fly left and right. You don't need a double garage. You don't need it. I don't have it Karen doesn't have that's all I have to say. Thank you so much. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You're welcome. COLIN RATSEY : I just want to thank everybody alright. I have my house I have an eight car garage. I appreciate everything. All I'm saying is I think this lady should be let to have a garage because if she sells the house we're going to get one of these nice people from New York and they're going to raise the house so none of them will see the water. That's all I got to say. Have a great day I really appreciate all your help but they could raise this house. This is what I'm just saying people around here don't understand MEMBER GOEHRINGER : We're not getting anywhere here. COLIN RATSEY : I'm just saying people around here don't understand that by expanding the garage and going to the right and left it stops these other people from buying these kinds of houses and raise them up. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :That's supposition. That's supposition. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting COLIN RATSEY : Well that's why they're buying them. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That's supposition I'm sorry you know look we're looking at a garage very simple that's it. You're talking about six feet two yard sticks on the ground okay that's all we're talking about. COLIN RATSEY : If you want I'll make it twenty feet. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The applicant has two front yards which definitely creates this conundrum that in fact it functions as a side yard for the property owner but for other people who live with their fronts along Emory it's their front yard so that's why we have a relief from code and that's why we're here to figure out how to balance we do this based on a series of state laws. It's very clear in the application okay. COLIN RATSEY : That's fine but if you take all this the houses on the street and come up with the average you're going to see that she's not really out of CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well you need to do that and submit it. COLIN RATSEY : Well I didn't think I had to because on Google it's very obvious. It's very obvious and you usually go and see that. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We always asked I just said this this is about the fourth time I am saying if there are other non-conforming setbacks you need to submit them to us and it will then work in terms of our assessing the character of the neighborhood. COLIN RATSEY : Let's see what we come up with. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Here's what I'm going to suggest doing. COLIN RATSEY : If I have to make the garage a little smaller I'm telling you I'd be glad to. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay I'm going to suggest the following. We've been asked for a little more time. Perhaps you'd like to Mary would like to investigate whether there are in fact other non-conforming setbacks front yard setbacks the neighbors have asked for a little time to think through what they want to say and whatever so I'm going to make a motion to adjourn this to the Special Meeting two weeks from today no further testimony only to receive written submission. COLIN RATSEY : Okay you got it. Have a nice day. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : From anyone concerned and we will then close the hearing two weeks from today which means you can submit whatever you want you got two weeks anybody January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting who's interested they don't have to be here today anybody else who wants to say whatever they want. Submit it they can do it in writing okay and you may speak. COLIN RATSEY : I'm going to leave I know how it works. Everybody have a nice day. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay Colin Happy New Year. REGINA SCHANKEL : Regina Schankel 285 Emory Rd. I felt like I was on a T.V. show when I saw this happening because my husband questioned me not to say anything personal not to mention anything that people might find offensive and when I when people say you've already addressed that I'll let that go okay but for them to ask my husband for people to ask my husband his name in the lobby google our home and then say we can't see CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright, alright, wait, wait. REGINA SCHANKEL : Okay how about I state this from our driveway we can see the back of this garage is that alright from our driveway we can see the back of this garage? As we unload our things the back of this garage is perpendicular to our house. If it was back to the thirty five feet I probably could still see it but that's the rules I could live with it that's the way things were meant to be but to bring it out another five feet I will see the back and as we walk our dog down our road it's not Emory but to say it doesn't affect me it hurts you know I find it offensive because it is next door to me. I do see the back of it and the people across the street it's like this to them so just so you get a feeling. I'm sorry if I, I try CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : By the way we have driven up and down Beebe and Emory. We know the neighborhood. We're neighbors too you know we all live out here. This is a quasi- judicial body of peers your neighbors appointed by the Town Board so we're all concerned with making sure that the place remains as beautiful as we all want it to be. But you know people have property rights too and when codes are too restrictive we are established legally as a relief valve from codes because people a lot of people build things before there was any zoning at all. Now they put zoning on top of those properties and everything they have is non-conforming but they still have to have some rights. That's why they have the right to come to us. REGINA SCHANKEL : But can I ask a question. If I would feel differently if this person if you couldn't get a garage there. If someone said these people they should get a variance because they should have a garage just like you do. Then I could say you know what they're right but to make it a double garage and then ask for a variance for convenience of a double garage to me I don't even know why we're here. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Alright I think we have the point. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting SOMEONE FROM THE AUDIENCE : (inaudible) CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : If it speaks to the variance yes. KAREN RAFFEL : Again Karen Raffel. Just a quick factual question so I can collect my information just to in writing. Numbers are just being thrown here six feet and so forth could you just tell me I know the setback required is thirty five feet. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : From the property line. KAREN RAFFEL : From the property line. The understanding I had was something about twenty seven they want it at 27.2 could you tell me what they're actually requesting the setback would be if they got CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The Building Department has called it out at twenty nine feet plus or minus based on this survey. This is a licensed surveyor who says that one point the proposed garage cause not all property lines are exactly even you know is 28.6 and the other says 28.7. The Building Department rounded it off to twenty nine plus or minus. KAREN RAFFEL : We're talking about six feet then. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This the Notice of Disapproval and the Building Department says no we can't give you a permit because you're not conforming to the code. KAREN RAFFEL : So six feet is the issue. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea that's what's an issue. KAREN RAFFEL : Okay thank you. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay I'm going to alright is there anyone else? TOM SCHANKEL : Again Tom Schankel and this is the last thing I'll say. I just thought it was CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :The last thing you said was going to be the last thing. TOM SCHANKEL : Well what can I say we live here as you said it's all of our neighborhood and I appreciated that but you know my neighbor Karen is a social studies teacher. Henry Clay was the great compromiser I just didn't see the walk that Colin took to the parking lot as any form of compromise whatsoever and I know I'm just saying that CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's going to be for this Board to adjudicate 40, NYb January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting TOM SCHANKEL : I know that I know that and I thank you for your time and I also thank you for your good work. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you I mean we have we really I don't think we're going to gain any new information that we haven't already heard but you have two weeks to submit anything to the office and Vicki will make sure the Board members have copies of everything TOM SCHANKEL : And you said if are at work I'll be at work at that time so we this was CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No, no, no, there's nothing you don't need to be there I'm just saying we're not taking any more testimony. Two weeks from today in the evening at five o'clock over in the other building you know the annex the Zoning Board meets to deliberate on decisions. This public hearing day is for fact finding okay we listen to testimony we don't make decisions today. You have two weeks to submit only in writing anything you want us to know okay and the applicant has the same. SOMEONE FROM THE AUDIENCE : Because if they come up with other homes that have this the only thing is there's no home across the street from this. I'll take a picture. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You do anything you want and what we will do is consider all of it. We will close the hearing two weeks from then that means that's all the information we're going to use and we may or may not make a decision that night it depends on what information we get and how quickly we get it. If there's still some information we need to digest that just came in that same day we're not probably going to make a decision but we may have a draft ready based on what we've heard and what we've received so we will if we don't deliberate two weeks from today it will be at the next meeting which is going to be a month from today because we only meet twice a month and we can only make decisions during those open meetings. The public is invited if they wish to listen but you can't say anything. It's an open meeting but there's no testimony there's nothing being recorded alright anything else? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Can I give this young lady a copy of the survey so that she see where the hedge row is and all that stuff? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think they need to foil that Gerry. If you want to take a look at the survey that we've got or anything the drawings or anything else all you need to do is come into the office talk to Vicki, fill out a FOIL freedom of information act form and you can look at anything in the record that they've submitted and you can you know if you want a copy it's whatever twenty five cents or whatever the heck is per page Vicki will make a copy for you or one of the staff yea whoever is in the office yea the one where Capital Bank is. Okay so I don't know if we actively actually we didn't finish the vote. So I made a motion to adjourn subject to 5 January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting receipt of information to the Special Meeting. What's the date January 21st okay seconded by Ken. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) HEARING #6908— L., D., A., R. SUTTER CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for# 6908. This is a request for variance from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the Building Inspector's November 23, 2015 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for building permit to legalize "as built" deck addition to existing single family dwelling at 1) more than the code maximum allowable lot coverage of 20% located at 545 Beachwood Rd (adj. to Great Peconic Bay) in Cutchogue. Hi. RICHARD SUTER : Hi I'm Rick Suter. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you have any white slips? RICHARD SUTER : Yes. Just to briefly go over this it's sort of Hurricane Sandy related. My parents bought the house in 1956 and when they retired in 1978 they obtained a building permit to raise the house add on to it and build a bay side deck. I have a note from the file from Building Inspector it's dated June 24th 1978 I think it's in your file I attached it which it showed an irregular deck that was being built at the back of the house. Upon completion of the renovation my parents got a C.O. which I have a copy of it was August 15th 1978 which encompassed everything that was on the survey which VanTuyl drew dated September 8th 1978 which included the deck in the back the bay side of the house and the house renovated that was done and also the garage was still on the property at the time. So when we completed the January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting house with the garage the lot coverage is actually about 28.3%. In 1984 my parents got a permit to move the house the garage to the other side of the street so which they did and that we got a C.O. for a garage on the other side which reduced the lot coverage down to what's presently is 25.7. My point is at the time we got the C.O. in '78 the lot coverage actually was 28.2. The next thing I have which also is in the file I have two letters from the adjoining neighbors which have been there since over forty almost fifty years I guess they both witnessed the deck existing in the '70's and also in favor of the deck I think you have copies of the letters that the neighbors sent. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We do. RICHARD SUTER : Okay. Then over the next thirty five years the deck obviously got some wear and tear. Super Storm Sandy really made us to require more of an extensive replacement. We thought we could just kind of reconstruct and we ended up the builder thought it was better to take more parts out of it than less we ended up rebuilding the decking and top deck was new and anyway long story short sell the house cause my parents now passed away the building inspector came down for what they call a Pre C.O. which I don't think exists anywhere else except the Town of Southold to notice that the deck looked too new and to be considered a new deck again the deck has been there since 1978 and unfortunately didn't know that the Town of Southold had created an expedited permitting process after the hurricane or I definitely wouldn't be here today and I think that's the whole story. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So this deck is replaced in kind to what was there or is it larger? RICHARD SUTER : Yes essentially yes. It's not the old deck was curving I have a drawing of it I can show you being just out of architectural school when I designed it I did sort of (inaudible) creative deck now (away from mic) the deck you can see there is a (inaudible) shape and we just went straight because it was easier it's exactly the same square footage. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It's the same. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Do you have one of those? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : NO. RICHARD SUTER : The old survey is a little unclear how the actual curve. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We'll take it for our file. RICHARD SUTER : You can keep that. And that's it unless I don't know if you have any questions but that's all I have. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Now do you have a copy of or do you want a copy of the LWRP letter? RICHARD SUTER : No I got a copy of the LWPR letter and obviously two of the things are related the fact that we didn't get the proper permits written initially which I didn't know about and I didn't again you know we thought we were repairing it. We should of done it through the town as a proper through the expedited thing which we didn't know about and the other note was a reference to floods the flood zone and it being an AE and a V but we have flood insurance on the house and it's an AE zone it's so there is no velocity zone on that property. The house well there is on some of the properties in the beachfront but the house itself is in an AE zone cause that's what the insurance company told us it is that's what we're paying for. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric any questions? MEMBER DANTES : No he's covered it. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So this existing deck is not changed the lot coverage that has been there historically. RICHARD SUTER : That's correct. As a matter of fact as I mentioned as I pointed out the lot coverage is actually less than when we got the C.O. in '78. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : '78 was the C.O.? Why do I have 1984 down in my notes? RICHARD SUTER : Okay that was when we that's when the garage was moved across the street and the lot coverage was reduced down to 25%. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN :Thank you. And it remains the same? RICHARD SUTER : Yes. MEMBER SCHNEIDER : With respect to the VE zone do we need something on paper or just a letter from him or something? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think I don't think so I mean RICHARD SUTER : Just his testimony is sufficient? CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea I mean if this deck has been there for years and years and years it's typical of other decks that are you know if we all inspect this as you know you just look up and down the beach and you can see the MEMBER SCHNEIDER : I'm just addressing the LWRP. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yea I think he wasn't sure MEMBER SCHNEIDER : For him to be unsure with all the maps and lines and drawings. RICHARD SUTER : Well it's somewhat close if you look at the line. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The flood maps have changed somewhat and they the definition of lot coverage was not looked at the buildable area of a lot at that time. It was included land on the water and everything else prior to that code change so I think the primary issue is the lot coverage is the same as it always has been Gerry anything? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : No. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone else in the audience wishing to address this application? Hearing no further comments I make a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. Is there a second? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) HEARING #6909—GEORGE and LISA WALLACE CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next application before the Board is for George and Lisa Wallace # 6909. This is a request for variance from Article XXIII Section 280-124 and the Building Inspector's November 25, 2015 Notice of Disapproval based on an application for a building permit to construct a hot tub and deck addition to existing single family dwelling at 1) less than the code required rear yard setback of 50 feet located at 430 Bailie Beach Rd in Mattituck. Hi. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting GEORGE WALLACE : Good afternoon. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Would you state your name for the record please. GEORGER WALLACE : George Wallace. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How do you do sir. Looks like you want to build this deck and hot tub addition at a 48.2 foot rear yard setback where the code requires a minimum of 50 feet. What would you like us to know about the application? GEORGE WALLACE : Well my wife and I purchased the home approximately two years ago and after we purchased the home we discovered the deck was in a bit of disrepair. It's an 80's deck and there is no mantle board on the deck so the Teco's are going right into the house and it's very unstable on the west side of the house so after some evaluation we decided that we're gonna you know it's a weathered deck it needs some work so we thought you know we're going to tear it down and put up a quality deck. One of the things about the back of the deck is it's a little close to the house so the lounge chairs that we have on the back of the deck you know it's awful tough to get in front of those without bumping it out a little bit towards the pool so that's our intention and it's by doing that we're going to infringe on the setback of 50 feet on back of the house. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay so you want to put like a four foot extension. GEORGE WALLACE : Right just bumping out basically from where the walkway is to the pool down to the west end of the house. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let's start with you down there Gerry any questions. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : No I was over and viewed the entire rear yard and you got any neighbors in the back? GEORGE WALLACE : I don't. That property is owned Honeysuckle Hills Property Association and they refused my certified mailing so both of those parcels behind the house are owned by them and it's like a common area. You find kids in there in summertime lots of deer in the woods. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Yep lots of deer in Mattituck. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We were out to inspect the site everybody does that before a hearing and your rear yard is really invisible from the road and from all the adjacent properties pretty much (inaudible) existing landscape. January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting GEORGER WALLACE : I was able to obtain letters from both my neighbors on east and west side of me to support the project and that they have no issue with it in addition to them receiving the certified mailing. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you have the green cards that were returned. Vicki those are the receipts that you mailed them. BOARD ASSISTANT TOTH : Did you submit the letters or do you have them with you? GEORGE WALLACE : I have them with me. BOARD ASSISTANT TOTH : Cause you can submit those also to the Board the letters of support and the green cards that they signed and sent back to you. We need them all. Okay great thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Any questions from anybody? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : No not from me. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric? MEMBER DANTES : No. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Gerry? MEMBER GOEHRINGER : The reason why I asked you about the neighbors in the back is there a slope a sloping area that is in the back of the property where water may come down or anything have you ever had water in the pool or excess amount? GEORGE WALLACE : No I haven't. My landscaping does taper up to the woods but everything I mean as you come across the pool and then come down it doesn't really start sloping until you're on the other side of the deck coming down to the front lawn so the heavy angles more or less and that's why we're concerned about the side yard piece of decking it's a fourteen foot section on the west side of the property you can almost feel like that is only supported by the rest of the deck and whatever is underneath so even with company that we've had in the past two years we didn't let anybody hang out on that side of the deck this is what we're concerned about. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : So in other words the new deck would assist you in having any water that would accumulate you know assuming that if we said to you or I said to you you need to put pavers down instead of this deck or you need to change the deck you know in general alter it in some way other than the plan that you've given us you'd say well they would be wet all the time based upon a rain storm or something of that nature. 5 :.'�., January 7, 2016 Regular Meeting GEORGE WALLACE : And the grade of the I would have to significantly change the grading so you know I would think that that would not be possible. We had also looked at redoing the deck in the existing footprint and just calling it kind of a tear down and rebuild of existing footprint and it just wasn't worth it to us with the four foot bump out so that's why we felt strongly enough to go through the process to get to the variance for the additional two feet. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Great thank you. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone else in the audience who wants to address this application? Hearing no further questions or comments I make a motion to close the hearing reserve decision to a later date. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor? MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye. MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye. MEMBER DANTES : Aye. CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye. (See Minutes for Resolution) January 7,2016 Regular Meeting CERTIFICATION I Elizabeth Sakarellos, certify that the foregoing transcript of tape recorded Public Hearings was prepared using required electronic transcription equipment and is a true and accurate record of Hearings. / Signature Q / I II Elizabeth Sakarellos DATE : January 14, 2016