Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-02/20/2002Albert J. Krupski, President James King, Vice-President Artie Fester Ken P01iwoda Peggy A. Dickerson BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Town I-fall 53095 Route 25 P.O~ Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971-0959 Telephone (631) 765-1892 Fax (631) 765-1366 MINUTES Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:00 PM PRESENT WERE: Albert J. Krupski, Jr., President James King, Vice-President Artie Foster, Trustee Peggy Dickerson, Trustee Lauren Standish, Senior Clerk Scott Hilary, CAC Bob Ghosio, CAC ABSENT WAS: Kenneth Poliwoda, Trustee CALL MEETING TO ORDER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 at 8:00 AM TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve, TRUSTEE DICKERSON seconded. ALL AYES NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 7:00 PM WORKSESSlON: 6:00 PM TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve, TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded. ALL AYES APPROVE MINUTES: Approve Minutes of January 23, 2002 (not available) MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for January 2002. A check for $5,635.31 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund. Il. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for review. II1. AMEN DM ENTS/VVAIVERS/CHANGES: ROBERT MOSQUERA requests an Amendment to Permit #5297 to construct a 20'X 20' extension to the dwelling and a 20'X 21' garage, Located: 370 Hobart Rd., Southold. SCTM#62-3-6 TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application with the condition of a 25' non-turf buffer and drywells for the garage, TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded. ALL AYES REYDON SHORES PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOC. requests an Amendment to Permit #4704 to replace deteriorated wood sheathing and bottom whaler only with C-Loc vinyl sheathing. Bottom whaler 6"X 6" creosote. Located: End of Reydon Dr., Southold. SCTM#80-3-21.1 TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application with the condition that the pipe is removed from the bulkhead, TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded. ALL AYES CHARLES BURST requests an Amendment to Permit #2003 to change the existing dock and ramp to a floating dock and two piles to hold the dock. Located: 705 Windy Point Rd., Southold. SCTM#87-4-6 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to Table the application until a new dock plan is received and another ins pection is made, TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded. ALL AYES ROBERT ALCUS requests an Amendment to Permit #4279 to move the existing float north 6'. Located: 1457 Cedar Point Dr. East. Southold. SCTM#92-1-2.1 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to Approve the application with the condition that a new plan is submitted showing the dock relocated 6' to the north and 3' inward, TRUSTEE DICKERSON seconded. ALL AYES Patricia C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of FREDERICK VON ZUBEN requests an Amendment to Permit #5344 for the renovation of the existing single- family dwelling, includin9 the placement of the house on pilings, construction of a new deck, replacement of the sanitary system, removal of concrete walls along property lines and construction of a new grave] driveway, Located: 1125 North Sea Dr,, Southold. SCTM#54-4-13 TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application with the condition that the dune is restored with beach grass and Rosa Rugosa, TRUSTEE DICKERSON seconded. ALL AYES Mill Creek Builders on behalf of GRACE KEHLE requests an Amendment to Permit #5317 to allow for the removal and reconstruction of existing foundation found to be deficient. Located: 450 Strohson Rd., Cutchogue. SCTM#103-10-20 3 TN 10. 11. 12. 13. TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded. ALL AYES JOHN & KATHLEEN BOWER request a Transfer of Permit #5260 from Norman Wamback to John & Kathleen Bower to construct a single-family dwelling, sanitary system, and driveway. Located: 12710 Horton's Lane, Southold SCTM#54-7-1.3 TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES JOHN EDLER requests a One-Year Extension to Wetland Permit #4825 and Coastal Erosion Permit #5065. Located: 130 Cleaves Point Rd., East Marion. SCTM#38-2-32 TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES ANTHONY NAPOLITANO requests a One-Year Extension to Wetland Permit #4828 and Coastal Erosion Permit #5068. Located: 200 Cleaves Point Rd., East Marion. SCTM#38-2-33 TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES FRANK TOMASINI requests a One-Year Extension to Wetland Permit #4827 and Coastal Erosion Permit #5066. Located: 290 Cleaves Point Rd., East Marion. SCTM#38-2-34 TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES NORMAN TAYLOR requests a One-Year Extension to Wetland Permit #4826 and Coastal Erosion Permit #5067. Located: 300 Cleaves Point Road, East Marion. SCTM#38-2-35 TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of SALT LAKE ASSOCIATION requests a One-Year Extension to Permit #5133. which will expire on March 22, 2002. Located: Old Salt Rd., Mattituck. SCTM#144-5-19 TRUSTEE DICKERSON moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of WILLIAM MANOS requests a One- Year Extension to Permit #5147. which will expire on February 24, 2002. Located: 12035 Soundview Ave., Southold. SCTM#54-5-46.1 TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE DICKERSON seconded. ALL AYES 4 TRUSTEE KING moved to go off the Regular Meeting and onto the Public Hearings, TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded. ALL AYES IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS: THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING tN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD, I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF. FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS IF POSSIBLE JOAN LACAILLE requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 1' high retaining wall approx. 60 linear ft. on northwest side of catwalk and approx. 30 linear ft. retaining wall 1.5' high northeast of catwalk. Located: 1255 Waterview Dr., Southold. SCTM#78-7-17 POSTPONED UNTIL MARCH AS PER THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST SUSAN MAGG requests a Wetland Permit to add a 2" layer of topsoil to plant grass within 100' of the wetlands. Located: 495 Halls Creek Dr., Mattituck. SCTM#116-7-4.1 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would ike to speak in favor of or against the application? JAMES ORIOLE: That's my wife. I'm here to answer any questions. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we went out on field inspection last month and there was a violation issued in June of 2001 to stop all work and place hay bal 9s in line to stop any erosion. Apparently, that was never done. JAMES ORIOLE: But the job had already been finished. That's probably the question that you have. Th 9 job was already done. That's one of the reasons why it wasn't answered because the job had already been done. The two inches had already been spread and that's one of the reasons why you even saw the pay loader there. I own it. So the job was already done and you sent me this to stop and basically I was done. It's probably my fault I didn't answer it. You then sent the police on a Sunday morning and issued me a summons. We went to court and then in court they postponed it and said to file an application, which we did, and here I am. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It took a long from June of last year for all of that to happen. Did the CAC review this? SCOTT HILARY: Yes we did. We recommended Disapproval of the application. 5 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh When this develcpment was being developed we delineated the path that was there to be the, the landward side of the path... JAMES ORIOLE: We didn't go any further east of the path. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well actually it shows, what you submitted, it shows that you did. JAMES ORIOLE: Well the path is still there. You can see the pay loader parked on the path. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well that was part of the problem. That's supposed to be non-disturbance. You shouldn't have anything stored there. JAMES ORIOLE: Why? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because it's a non-disturbance buffer area and the whole purpose of a non-disturbance buffer area is to protect the creek and that's why we set that path as a consistent buffer area for all of those houses as they were built in that development. JAMES ORIOLE: That path was a right-of-way to a farm. TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's an old farm road but we used it as a delineator to define, the setback line. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh All of those houses in that development had the same setback line. JAMES, .QRIO~LE: The path is there_ but I didn't go past the path; TR,US~EE K ~RUPSKI: Sure, there s material stored there, there s a pile of gravel erdirt, the path has been filled in with leaves actively filled in with lea?s.that h8 e been placed there, not just fallen there, because leaves don't fall a fobt and half thick. JAMES ORIOL:E: You can see that my property is practically leaf free and they !ust blo~, that way. You can come in and look at the property and theOrY's not a leaf there. TRL ;TEE KRUPSKh We were there. But I'm inclined to disapprove the pe~ t..iand m~ke that area restored because that's a buffer area and it shO ,~' be restored. S¢ ~T-HIL/~R¥: We recommend the same. JA~I i~, O',RI~EE: So tell me what you want because if I'm going to start the ~:y Ioad~jr up, I'm going to clear the area and put the buffer back. Tell me ~v 8~eep you want me to make the buffer t can be done n a ha f an hour, if th,at s;all it is. TF~US:TEE K~UPSKI: That's what it is. The original road has to be restored to w.hat it is. The buffer area is the landward side of thal road. J,~MESORI~LE: Right, I mean I understand if that's what you want for the road, Tha,t's,~hy I'm here and that's fine. So you're granting me the pe~dit;to put,the 2" of topsoil that's down there already then? TR~USTEE KRUPSKh No. we're denying you the permit because that to,soil got sl~illed out into the buffer area. We want everything removed fr~Cnithe buffbr area and have that restored. You would have to give us a pl~ ion how you're going to restore that buffer area to its origl hal state. JAMES ORI6)LE: Ok. so I'm going to submit a plan for the road. d TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's correct, JAMES ORIOLE: Ok. TRUSTEE KRUPSKi: As per your original permit for the house. JAMES ORIOLE: Well the original permit for the house was a building permit and so we brought fill in and that's probably one of the reasons why we didn't file a permit to put 2" of top soil in the back because we had a permit to brin9 in fill on my odginal permit. But again, it's just bringing that road back to odginal grade or spec, so that's what I'll do. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to Deny the request to place 2" of topsoil within the non-disturbance buffer. So you'll have to give us a planting plan, a restoration plan for that area. JAMES ORIOLE: Well nothings going to be planted, just cleared. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But it has to be restored to what it was. JAMES ORIOLE: Sure. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Submit it and we'll review it. JAMES O~iOLE: Ok. TR, USTEE K.,RUPSKh I II make a motion to close the hearing. TRUSTEE EOS%ER: S,e, conded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE ~RUPSKI: III make a motion to Deny the request to place 2" of toP;Soil wi~in the non-disturbance buffer. TRU;STEE ~ CKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES JASON & LISA LUHRS request a Wetland Permit to install a stone driveway to the garage. Located: 1132 Chestnut Rd., Southold. SCTM#59-3-16,5 TRUSTEE KRUPSKi: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the application? JASON LUHRS: I'm the applicant. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Are you in favor of it? JASON LUHRS: Oh, yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone else like to comment on the application? JASON LUHRS: I'm just here if you have any questions. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh What were the CAC comments? SCOTT HILARY: We recommended Disapproval SOlely on the project wasn't staked and that's just a policy. When we saw the inspection, there was no stakes to reference the proposed project, so we recommended Disapproval.. TRUSTEE:FOSTER: There were stakes there when we got there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We were there Wednesday and it was staked. SCOTT H'ILARY: You'll see on this agenda that there's probably another five or so like this so we're going to have to figure out something. TRUSTEEKRUPSKh When do you go out? BOB GHOSIO: Usually the Sunday before our meeting. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It was staked on Wednesday. We were there Wednesday. SCOTT HILARY: Right but we go out before you guys. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh If it wasn't staked you would not have known where you were. SCOTT HI LARY: Well I didn't see this one myself. TRUSTEE KRLIPSKh Oh, you didn't go out? SCOTT HILARY: No. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ok. because I was go~ng to show you where you were in the woods, If it was not staked, you wouldn't have had a clue. SCOTT HILARY: Well that's why we Disapproved the project. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We looked at it and it's something that you'd approve of. It was staked. SCQTTHILARY: I th nk we need to work on that. Maybe a note to the contmomrs to stake them earlier. It's a waste of everybody's time. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I don't think that's a problem. We spent a lot of time on this one, Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE FOSTER: So moved. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Ill make a motion to Approve the application. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES ROGER SIEJKA requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4'X 12' fixed dock with stairs leading to a 6'X 15' fixed dock. Located: 130 Willis Creek Dr. Mattituck. SCTM#115-17-17.8 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the application? They submitted new plans showing a 4' wide to an 8'X 6' platform so he made is about as minimal as he could. We'll include stairs inthe description. What was the CAC comment? SCOTT HILARY: We recommend Approval. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Did you see the new plan? It's about half the size. SCOTT HILARY: Do I did not. BOB GH, OSIO: It's even bette,r,. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It doesnt show the stairs but we'll include the stairs in the description. Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES. I'll make a motion to Approve the application to adhere to the recently submitted plan changing the configuration. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES JOSEPH & ELIZABETH BRITTMAN requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 25'X 35' addition to the existing dwelling. Located: 80 Glenn Rd., Southold. SCTM#78-2-10 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application? The CAC recommended approval. Is there anyone else who would like to speak before we take a Board comment? The only condition we pul on is that we need drywells and gutters to contain the roof run-off. JOSEPH BRITTMAN: Is that for the house also? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's advisable. You could put in a big drywell and you could connect the gutters to that. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Where's the septic system on that house? JOSEPH BRITTMAN: It's in the front. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: On Glenn P,d. Bayview? JOSEPH BRITTMAN: Glenn Rd. TRUSTEE KRUPSK: Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We should also get hay bales during construction TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with a line of hay bales and drywells and gutters for the roof run-off. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES DONALD & HELEN RYND requests a Wetland Permit to replace the damaged bulkhead. Located: 1165 West Rd., Cutchogue. SCTM#110-7- 2 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any one who would like to speak in favor of or against the application? The CAC recommended Approval with a non- turf buffer behind it. SCOTT HILARY: And that construction be in-place. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well that's what I'm looking at here. TRUSTEE FOSTER: They have it tucked in as far as they can get it I guess. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you think they can take that piling out? It seems like they could take that old piling out or do you think it should be in-place? TRUSTEE FOSTER: Haven't we done it before where we put the pilings right next to the old ones and then pull the sheathing and put new sheathing right behind it? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: On his plans, he's got water coming up to the bulkhead, and now there's sand because the County dredged Do you have any comments on this? TOM SAMUELS: Mr. Rynd is in Portugal and he couldn't be here tonight. He just applied to the DEC. The County just did nourish that beach there. It has changed a lot from what it was three weeks ago but I would have no problem with you Tabling this because the DEC's application has yet to be...he's trying to do it all himself. I think if you want to Table it, 'd like to take a look at the situation again. I'm not authorized however to ask you to Table it but it's a suggestion. There's no great rush on it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'd rather not Table it just because I'd rather keep it moving along, even if the DEC makes them change it. We don't have a problem with them amending the application. TOM SAMUELS: If I can help you with any answers I wil. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we were just wondering whether, there's a comment from the CAC to replace it in-place. I'd be more inclined to Approve it, take the old piling out and go right in front of the old sheathing because then you're only bumping out 12" tops. TOM SAMUELS: I don't know what the DEC is going to say about 18" on that beach especially now since they nourished it because now he has a beach where he hasn't for years. If you want to specify piling removal that's fine. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'll make a motion to Approve the application but that during cons'~ruction the existing pilings be removed in order to keep the structure as tight to the old structure as possible and that there be a 10' non-turf buffer behind the new bulkhead. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES JOHN ZOUMA$ requests a Wetland Permit to construct a single-family dwelling with attached two-car garage, deck and driveway. The house will also have a foundation and septic tank with cess pools. Located: 1250 Esplanade, Southold. SCTM#88-6-13.48 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the application? Is there anyone who would like to speak against the application? The CAC recommends Disapproval because the buffer should be at least 100' from the upper edge of the wetlands and the wetlands should be flagged. I think those wetlands were flagged. TRUSTEE FOSTER: We measured them. TRUSTEE KRUPS KI: We measured them but tnere were tags down there. SCOTT HILARY: saw a ribbon or two in the woods but nothing to really reference. We requested 100' out because there was at least 100' to work with. When it's there, we recommend to go to the 100'. As we said at the meeting ast week, it's optimal to have a 100' Duffer for the natural requirements of those wetland species and the data substantially shows that 100' is optimal. BOB GHOSIQ: We also recommended keeping the cedars in place. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Any comment? JOHN ZOUMAS: I'm John Zoumas, TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Alright, so you heard the comments from the CAC. Basically we agreed with those comments. There seems to be a 50' building setback in that neighborhood. NEIGHBOR: Right. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We would like to see the house moved closer to the road so we can maximize the setback. JOHN ZOUMAS: I don't know if the Towns going to allow that though. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh A 50' setback? 10 JOHN ZOUMAS: I already have 50' now. You're saying go to 40'? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No, keep it at 50' but put the garage on the other side or something. We saw the same thing that the CAC saw in the field. Our field comments say 84' from wetlands to corner of the house. TRUSTEE FOSTER: That's pretty much what they show here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If the house were at 50' it would be in line with the neighbor's house. JOHN ZOUMAS: But you're telling me to switch the garage on the other side but I don't think it would help because we're still at 50' right? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But then you could move the house towards the road. JOHN ZOUMAS: But then I would have less than 50'. The zoning is 50' and then I'll have to go for a variance. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We're not asking you to move it closer than 50' to the road. Artie, can you explain it? TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well there's no other way to explain other than you have to change the design of the house, TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We're trying to maximize the setback there from the wetlands, TRUSTEE FOSTER: If you flip the house, mirrored it, went upside down the other way, you would actually be closer because the back of the house protrudes even further eehind the garage so you would actually be going closer. JOHN ZOU MAS: Originally the house was farther away but the DEC made me flip it so we could get 85'. TRUSTEE FOSTER: If the garage was taken from where it is and moved over to the side of the house, you could move the house forward but that would be changing the whole design of the house, which I really don't have anything to do with. But that's the only way. You're not going to put that house on that lot and gain anything by moving it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well maybe that's the problem. TRUSTEE FOSTER: The only thing you could do would be to put a different house there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well that's a suggestion. You have a comment si, r? NEIGHBOR: I don't know if you realize but there's a covenant in there, There's a 50' setback so from the road you have to be 60', in actuality. TRUSTEE FOSTER: That's 50' from the property line. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Our concern isn't so much for the size of the lot or the size of the house. It's more for the protection of the wetlands in the back. If the house is one size and the lot is one size, from our standpoint it's got nothing to do with the road or the house, it has to do with the wetlands. NEIGHBOR: t understand but I didn't know if you realize that this area requires a 50' setback. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh' You're the neighbor to the north? NEIGHBOR: No, I'm across. TRUSTEE KING: The garage seems to be the sticking point here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Right now there's a 75' clearing and ground disturbance line. That's DEC im posed? JOHN ZOUMAS: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That only allows you 10' to work on. Is that enough room to work in there? JOHN ZOUMAS: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh A 75' buffer is a good buffer. SCOTT HILARY: We recommend the 100' because it was there, but as optimal. We weren't looking at size of house or size of lot. We couldn't see a 10' building envelope being able to work in there with. Usually it's minimum 25'. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's a small area to put a foundation in. JOHN ZOUMAS: Yes, but it can be done. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Are you building this for a customer?. JOHN ZOUMAS: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But you could say it's this house or this house. JOHN ZOUMAS: We've been working on this house for a year. The customer designed it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh You're from the Association and you're happy with this? ASSOCIATION: Yes. We have no problem with this. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's a first when the neighbors approve. TRUSTEE FOSTER: I don't really have a problem with it if they maintain 75'. Put the hay bales along the 75' line. TRUSTEE KING: That's a decent buffer area. TRUSTEE FOSTER: But there's no disturbance seaward of that conservation easement. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The DEC requires markers used by the Dept. to delineate the boundary of the wetland be left undisturbed for one year following completion of the project and any work storage material should be confined within the limit of clearing and snow fence shal be erected prior to the commencement to any permitted activities and shall be maintained until project completion and prior to commencement of construction activities a continuous row of hay bales shall be staked from end to end at the base of the snow fence. SCOTT HIEARY: Has the delineation been identified yet? TRUSTEE FOSTER: We measured it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We did see the flags in the wetlands. They were pretty conservative. We didn't know who flagged them. You've got to put the snow fence up before construction and we'll put on as part of the permit that the snow fence has to be inspected before construction begins. SCOTT HILARY: And that 75' buffer non-disturbed? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Right. That will be the same as the DEC permit. Would anyone else like to speak? Do I have a motion to close the hearing? t2 TRUSTEE KING: So moved TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE FOSTER: Ill make a motion to Approve the application and maintain the presently noted conservation easement with snow fence and hay bales and to observe the restriction of the clearing limits. This will also have to have drywells and roof gutters to contain all roof run-off. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Once the snow fence is in place and the hay bales are in place, this office will have to inspect it to make sure they are in the right location. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES JOHN HENRY requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 9'X 36' ground- level deck, remove window and install an overhead door, and construct stairs from the existing deck to the ground on the south side of the house. Located: 2360 Village Lane, Orient. SCTM#26-1-15.1 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh This project apparently wasn't noticed property and so we'll open the hearing if anyone would Ii ~e to comment and then we have to Table it until next month. MR. CHRISTENSEN: I'm representing John Henry's house. Is there anything I have to do before the next meeting? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It hasn't been noticed properly but if anyone came tonight we would let them comment on it and then we'll .lust Table it. TRUSTEE FOSTER: The only comment I had on it was that I think I would want a silt fence from property line to property line 15' out from the house to contain the construction area, not being out on the beach and in the high-tidal area. That was the only stipulation I had. Also, they're not really changing the footprint of the house itself, just putting in a bay window and adding a'doOr but it wouldn't be a bad idea to put a drywell in for the roof run-off on the bay side. MR. CHRISTENSEN: There's no run-offon the bay side. It all runs toward the road. It's a shed roof. TRUSTEE FOSTER: I didn't notice that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there any other comment? Then we'll Table the application until next month. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES POSILLICO CONSTRUCTION CO., INC. requests a Wetland Permit for the existing single-family dwelling under construction and proposed 24'X 28' detached two-car garage. Located: 3040 Kerwin Blvd., Greenport. SCTM#53-4-44.35 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application? TONY POStLLICO: (inaudible) and I'm here to answer any questions you might have. We did place down the hay bales and I have notice of postings that I would like to give you. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there any other comment? The CAC recommends Disapproval and recommends the applicant re-establish 100' of native vegetation, a non-turf, non-fertilization buffer. We visited the site and in that case we were satisfied with a 50' buffer. We staked it off with the applicant. Did you move the hay bales? TONY POSlLLICO: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh So the hay bales are at the 50' buffer and we will also condition drywells and gutters for the house. SCOTT HILARY: Why wouldn't you recommend a violation for this? TRUSTEE FOSTER: It wasn't a violation of the permit because there wasn't a permit. There were no wetlands shown on the survey so all the permits were issued based on there not being wetlands. They showed up later in the course of clearing and that's when the whole thing came about. The DEC and the marine police went down there and then he applied for the permit. The house is up and everything is already there and it was already don? It wasn't a violation of the permit because there wasn't one and it wasn t indicated on the survey. SCOTT HI~RY: Se whose responsibility is it to indicate it on the survey? TRUS-17EE FOSTER: Well it was an old surve~y that didn't show it. The wetlands over the year~ might have grown as they do. scoT1' HILARY: Don t you require an up-to-Sate survey? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we did get sometlting up-to-date because onginally when we looked at it, it was pretty crude. When did you get a building permit on this? TONY POSlLLICO: I think it was the beginning of,January bui can find out for you. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh This is happening less and less but this is one that happened. You know. they received the building permit based on that survey. TONY POSl LLICO: The original subdivision map showed a pond area off the lot. TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's an old subdivision map and all the surveys are done off the original subdivision map. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I guess what well need then is if you could put on the survey, and I'm trying to find which one, the line of hay bales and a 50' non-disturbance buffer on the other side of them. So, have that drawn in on the most up-to-date you have. have four here. I assume it's going to be your most up-to-date survey that you have showing the garage. TONY POSlLLICO: I have a survey showing the house as it exists and have the proposed garage location. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Ok so show it on that survey. TONY POSILLICO: Can I take advantage of the precedence set earlier by the other gentlemen and I could draw it in right now. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Sure. Is there any other comment? Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TONY POSILLICO: I have a couple of questions. Dudng the site visit, I pointed out a tree that is dying and I made a request to remove that tree. TRUSTEE FOSTER: I thought we decided that tree was shot. The whole core was hollow. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I thought about that. I was inclined to leave it alone s~nce that is the buffer area. TRUSTEE FOSTER: I thought we said, yes you can take it down if you take it down by hand, without machinery. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It provides habitat in the wetlands. BOB GHOSIO: That's why we recommended that he re-vegetate the area. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'm inclined to agree with Peggy on that. Artie, we don't let people put a fence in the buffer zone so it should be left alone. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well that's what we said that we were going to leave it alone and let it re-vegetate because it will be back by April. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well leave the tree alone too. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well whatever you decide. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh In the buffer zone, we've denied people to put a dog fence in it eecause it's a buffer zone. TONY POSILLICO: I understand but if the tree does go down and the wetland area starts to re-vegetate, it will only disturb it again. TRUSTEE KING: We should see what it looks like in a year from now. If it falls down then he can remove it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Leave it alone for a year and let the new owner, if hehas a problem, come to us. TONY POSILLICO: Again, I would like to make my point that once that area does start to re-vegetate, you'd have to disturb it to go in there and remove the dead tree: If it's already dead, doesn't it make sense to remove it now so that area can be re-vegetated and left undisturbed? BOB GHOSIO: Is it going to be in the non-disturbance buffer?. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Yes. BOB GHOSIO: If it falls, it becomes habitat for something. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: In some cases I don't have a problem with it but in this case, it is just part of the woods and should be left alone. That's my feeling. BOB GHOSIO: If it's in a non-disturbance buffer, you can't take it even if it falls down, right? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Right, because it's non-disturbance. TONY POSILLICO: Before I let the issue go, I want to make a point once again that [here is a waterview from this house and the tree is in the way of the view. could remove it by hand. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I don't know, we haven't made exceptions in the past. Just like the last one. Mr. Zoumas. He has all of those cedar trees and we're not going to let him take any of those cedar trees out. He's got a heavy stand of them 10. TONY POSILLICO: At the site there were at least two or three Trustees that agreed to take it down. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh There was some discussion towards that. I said that we should probably think about it. When it dies, it will fall dow~ and then it's out of the way. It could still live. With the last applicant, Mr. Zoumas, we wouldn't let him take those cedars down. We've had a lot of problems with non-disturbance buffers in the last two years. We'd rather let it remain non-disturbance. If you take it out then Mr. Zoumas is going to want to take it out and then the next guy says he wants to take them out too. TONY POSILLICO: It's a difficult thing for me to accept because just a year ago in the road dedication process of the subdivision I was asked to go in and take perfectly good trees out in the sump area, which is probably more of a habitat area and that made no sense to me at the time. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We had no part of that. TONY POSILLICO: I understand that but from my point of view, I had to spend a lot of money to do something [hat was much more of a disturbance and in some cases they were dght in the water. I'm asking you to let me go in, by hand, and cut a dead tree down and remove it. I'm not going to bring in any heavy equipment. I'll gladly let the Trustees ~nspect it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We don't question your work and everything but it's just that... TONY POSILLICO: I'll do it under your guidance and supervision. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I think we should just leave it alone. I think that's the feeling of the Board because we've had, not with you, but we've had some problems with these buffer areas in the past and we'd rather see them left undisturbed. We're trying to be consistent. It's not you or your tree but it's the whole concept of the buffer area. TONY POSILLICO: Can dead limbs be trimmed? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'd rather not see anything touched in there because that's the whole non-disturbed buffer concept. It's been a big problem for us in the past two years. Like I said, it's got nothing to do with you or your operation. It's the problem the Board has had with other people in other areas. Any other comment? Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTTEE DICKERSON: SecondecJ. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to Approve the application. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf of WILLIAM H, PRICE, JR., ESQ. requests a Wetl and Permit to construct a 1725 sf. single-family dwelling with a 550 sf. attached deck, an 865 sr. gravel driveway, septic system and waterline; and place 125 cy. of fill to elevate the septic system. Located: 100 Bay Rd., Greenport. SCTM#43-5-10 11. 12. 13. POSTPONED UNTIL MARCH AS PER THE AGENT'S REQUEST Docko, Inc. on behalf of FISHERS ISLAND YACHT CLUB requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 7'X 72' wood pile and timber dock with two 5'X 30' finger docks, construct 225 (+/-) LF of floating dock, all with associated tie-off and restraint pilings, reposition an existing 6' X 90' (+/-) LF float with new hinged ramp, include all associated restraint and mooring line piles, all waterward of the apparent high water line. Located: Central Ave., Fishers Island. SCTM#10-1-9 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone like to comment on this application? Does this need Coastal Erosion? I think it does. Is thisall new?. I'll make a motion to Table the application. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES James H. Rainbo, Inc. on behalf of ERWIN RODGER requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct inkind/inplace 85 linear ft. of timber bulkhead, excluding ramp. Backfill with clean fill from an approved upland source, only as necessary. Replace 16 wood piles 16'X 10", 6' on center; minimal disturbance for replacement of existing piles, inkind/inplace, and restore the lawn as exists. Located: 225 East Side Ave., Mattituck. SCTM#99-3- 2O TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application? The CAC recommends Approval with a 10' non-turf buffer. TRUSTEE KING: Remember we talked about the tie line and whether or not it was the property line? I talked to a surveyor today and he said that the tie line is not necessarily the property line. Here's your ordinary high- water mark and there's the tie line, outside. That's not the property line. t's a way of connecting two points. I was on the phone with a surveyor for a half an hour and he tried to explain all of this to me and all he did was get me more confused. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Right, we had that discussion about the property line. TRUSTEE KING: I went down there and this thing is about 40 years old. It's all there. I don't have a problem with it the way it is, in-place with the plastic. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We looked at a survey and we wanted the bulkhead to be straightened. Is there any other comment? Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with a 10' non-turf buffer landward of the bulkhead. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES J.M.O. Environmental Consulting on behalf of CATHERINE A, MCGOVERN LUCARELLI requests a Wetland Permit to remove +/-70' of l? concrete bulkhead and to reconstruct in place 70' of C-Loc 4500 Vinyl Sheathing and to backfill structure with +/-20 cy. of clean sand to be trucked in from an upland site. Located: 830 Oak Ave., Southold. SCTM#77-1-4 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application? GLENN JUST: If there are any questions, I'd here to answer them. I have the green cards for Lauren. Last month there was a question as far as who owns the property. There is a paper street, Cedar Rd., which is north of Oak St. went to the County Center yesterday and got copies of the deeds and I guess the Town Attorney has to rewew them. I don't see any mention myself as far as.., TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ok, the Town Attorney says, in regard to the ownership issue of the roadway area in Goose Creek, the following action should be considered prior to final determination. Documentation which shows ownership, which is a survey, and once correct ownership is determined, the Trustees can define what is reasonable use of the property and therefore set and hold a public heanng. This application seems to be quite similar to the Timothy Hill application. GLENN JUST: I think that's one of the adjacent neighbors. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But what they did was they put the dock out and it wasn't from their property. GLENN JUST: I supplied you with an updated survey and a copy of the de-ed and again, you had mentioned before tie lines. Your describing beach and the mean high water and it changes twice a day, 700 times a year. It does show in the survey submitted and the deed that the paper road is well seaward of the declared property lines that are shown. So, the bulkhead would be on the property and not on Town owned bottom. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The CAC had a comment. Didn'twe clear this up last month? Scott, your comment about the 200 cubic yards? SCOTT HILARY: I'm not su re if it was cleared up. There was discrepancy in the amount to be excavated that was a reference of 20 cy. on the permit but there was 200 cy, needed GLENN JUST: We said 20 cy. m our application. Why 200 cy.? SCOTT HILARY: That was a comment from one of our council members. GbENN JUST: We're not looking to raise the height of the bulkhead but another few inches. We'd be digging up old concrete and that concrete wall I think is going to be 36" and it's shaped like that. It's going to be 12" wide o ~ the top and maybe 24%36" on the bottom. The line that we are reconstructing is the landward end of that concrete so it's going to be concrete taken out and no reason to replace it seaward of the bulkhead. A lot more has to come out than what has to go back in because the C-Loc is very narrow material SCOTT HILARY: t wasn't a big issue. It was more of a discrepancy in the language. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh What do you think about yardage, Artie? Give it a bal park figure. TRUSTEE FOSTER: I can't it needing any more than that. The new bulkhead is going to be the same height as the concrete that's there now? GLENN JUST: Yes. TRUSTEE FOSTER: You don't fill right up to the to p of it? 3", 4",6" or whatever. than that. TRUSTEE TRUSTEE TRUSTEE TRUSTEE establish a TRUSTEE It m ght be off by a couple of yards but certainly not any more KRUPSKh Do I have a motion to close the hearing? KING: So moved. FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES FOSTER: I'll make a motion to Approve the application and 10' non-turf buffer. DICKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES 14. J.M.O. Environmental Consulting on behalf of CAROL CLANCY requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct in place +/-62' of existing concrete bulkhead, to construct a +/-38' section of new bulkhead in place of dilapidated concrete bulkhead. Existing concrete bulkhead would be replaced with C-Loc 4500 Vinyl Sheathing and structure shall be backfilled with +/-20 cy. of clean sand which shall be trucked in from an upland source. Located: 280 Oak Ave., Southold, SCTM#77-2-3 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application? GLENN JUST: It's almost the same exact situation. I supplied the Trustees'with new copies of the survey as well as the deed. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Ken recommended approval, CAC recommended approval. Is there any other comment? Do I have a motion to close the headng? TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'll make a motion to Approve the application and establish a 10' non-turf buffer. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES 15. J.M.O. Environmental Consulting Services on behalf of PETER & JANET DORAN request a Wetland Permit to construct a +/-94' bulkhead with (2) 8' returns. Existing soil to be used as backfill. Located: 9575 Nassau Point Rd., Cutchogue. SCTM#119-1-3 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would ke to speak in favor of the application? GLENN JUST: I'm here on behalf of the applicant. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there any other comment? Peggy and I looked at it this afternoon. Is there any re-vegetation plan? 19 GLENN JUST: We've asked the Suffolk County Soil Conservation, for lack of a better name, and we have sent them the soil types and they'll come back with what vegetation plan (inaudible). TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's in their best interest. GLENN JUST: Most definitely. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The CAC recommended approval with the condition that the bank be stabilized. Is there any other comment? I'll make a motion to close the hearing. TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with a re-vegetation plan. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh And with lack of an approved plan and just to re- vegetate with American Beachgrass, 18" on center. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES 16. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of JAMES GRATHWOHL requests a Wetland Permit to construct a two-story, one-family dwelling with attached porch and pervious driveway; install a sanitary system with approx. 240 cy. of clean sand fill to be retained with concrete retaining walls. Connect to public water service; and establish a 25' non-disturbance/non- fertilization buffer adjacent to the tidal wetland boundary. Located: 545 Will amsburg ~Rd., Southold. SCTM#78-5-16 , POSTPONED UNTIL APRIL AS PER THE AGENT S REQUEST 17. En-Consultants, Inc. on ~ehalf of BEACHWOOD COLONY OWNERS ASSOCIATION requests a Wetland Permit to remove and replace (inkind/in place) +/-72' and +/-89' existing timber groins. Located: 335 & 505 Beachwood Rd. Cutchogue. SCTM#116-4-23&26 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would: like to speak in favor of the application? ROB HERRMANN: Yes, on here on behalf of the applicants, the Beachwood Colony Owners Association. This is a fairly routine application, one that would have qualified for a Grandfather Permit if that program was still in place with the Board but with the abandonment of that program, we are here for a Wetland Permit application I know the Board may have some thoughts on the application so I'll take those before responding to any questions the Board might have. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Right now I'm reading the letter from Mr. Taylor. We just got it so I'll read it to the other Board member. (Letter on file.) Our observation on field ins pection was that the tide was flowing out and our observation was the tide seemed to want to flow to the east. A suggestion was made that if that westerly most groin was shortened, the tide would be able to flow past it increasing the water flow out of Hall's Creek and helping to keep the creek open. 2O ROB HERRMANN: That comment was the one I had passed on to Mr. Taylor which induced him to prepare that letter and interestingly, what I had done at about the same time is review with Mr. Taylor and other association members some basic, well really coastal geomorphic logical concepts of inlet migration and I realize that in some cases that discussing such theory might be limited but in this case I think it's interesting because we actually have aerial photographs that provide a historical prospective that the theory of inlet migration is actually occurring here and is one that is reoccurring on a typical basis and it's that same process that Mr. Taylor has observed. Basically the idea is that the geomorphology of any inlet is pnmarily attributable to the relative influences of tide action and wave energy and whether the inlet actually m [grates depends on the long shore sediment transport and the idea is thai there is a strong preferreddirection of long shore drift, you're going to get an inlet that's going to m~grate down drift in respodse;to that. Basically, as that inlet chan~el migration ,o_ccurs, you're going to ~ave an erosion of the adjacent shoreline and .that s certainly what has' been happening at Hall's Creek for as ~ongas the life long residents can recall. It's obviously a creek situation that this Board is intimate~ familiar with. What you're looking at right now, and I think probably to:keep this brief, and a picture is worth a thousand words, 'm just going te .give you a diagram that shows the process of inlet channel, abandonment. NoW unf0rtunately this diagram is an ~.act mir?or of Hall s Creek so ygu~re going to have to reverse the picture (~he ddft in your minds. What has.happened at Hall's Creek is that th~.i~let channel has migrated eastward has literally transferred sands from~?tl~e west that caused th,e continued built up and eastward exterisio¢{ .6f the uPWard beach an(t t(~ W~at has become effectively a barrier s¢it:r~ght'.in front of the entrance tO Halls Creek. At present the further down ;drift migration of that channel has basically stopped at the Reinhardt ¢ ~n, which isthe up-drift most groin in the association and it's one of the t s that we're asking to replace and it's actually that groin that you'~about cutting b~ck. So what's happening right now is that t actually trying to continue to move down drift as that entire rates but its has hit that gro~n and it's being pushed outl what you re ob;serving. But, what will happen ~s, baslcall ;I a conclusioh~that ~Vell if we shorten that groin, toing to be allowed to do What it wants to do and that's goingit'o sdm'ehow improve the flow to Hall's Creek. My argument is that there i~ abtua ~'no cause and effect between the two. You have the dynamic of inlet m~gration and eventually, wha~ happens, as in that sketch, is as that s~it gets pushed farther and farth:er down drift, eventually it's going to IQse it's gradient advantage and there is going to be cut right through there, closer to the center of Hall's Creek, a channel probably during a storm because then inlets are tmigrating typically the channel gets straightened out during a storm. What's kind of fascinating about the pictures that Mr. Taylor has and that he's referring to, is if you look on the sketch ~hat shows Stage 2 extension, that's pretty much exactly what you're looking at now and that was also the case ~n 1988. If you look in this photo you had essentially the same...you can actually see the exact same thing that was occurring n 1988 and you see how the channel comes out and this is the Reinhardt groin right here so you have all of the surface water accumulating but then in 1990, this has blown straight out through the center and you see the Reinhardt gro~n now there's a couple of hundred feet of beach between the Reinhardt groin and that groin. If you compare this picture to what's shown as stage 2 and then this picture to what's shown as stage 3, and I brought some aerial photographs from 1997 that basically bring us back to stage 1. TheSe are various angels which basically show in much greater clarify, the same phenomenon that, here again, the main channel is basically straight out and this Reinhardt groin here has all this beach in front of it. $o, the:point I'm making is that general cyclical process of inlet channel migration.then abandonment and basically reconstruction back to the center, 'has occurred, and Mr. Taylor has lived there for 8decades and he's watched this cycle occur over and over again, and these groins have been here sincethe 50's. So, theyare vitally important to the association because during this stage, which in 1988 and then you. see again today, this groin is basically the last fashion of defense against that inlet further mig¢~ting in'the nearshore area the association beach:. So shortening that groin woud allow'that inlet to migrate farther nto their beach and erode th6ir b.e. ach:,wh~ereas as it is now, you actually h~ve h~Stio~'ical evidence Of w~at is basically a reasonable stable c-;ycle and the natural practice that ¢ill 6°ntinue despite that groin. Now '~o ~l;oubt,'ttte ~cessive long shore transport of sand, I mean you .ha~e a long shore diment transport rate that far exceeds the onshore/o~shore iran.sport which is why YOu have this whole problem with H~ll's Creek and of course we went through lovingly I think for several years with Nell McGoldrick. That is a problem. But, shoAening this groin is not going to iml~rove upon or take away 1Yom'that process whatsoever. It's an indepen~lent dynamic cycle that: baS,al ~/what that groin serves to do is stabil.ize theibeach in an emergencY si~ation when it's at the stage that it's at now. TRUSTEE KRUPSK[: I disagree with you on...I agree With the whole concept and I agree w~th Mr. Taylor's letter ~n that Its funcbomng to hold that beach an8 they have qu~te a beach there. I don t have a problem wth that because (he groins functioning. But. I disagrbe, if it Weren't bulkheaded and I agree with your diagram, that'S what happens, that it weren't there it would be (inaudible). If all this bu!khea:ding and groins weren't there the creek would in fact come nght here, wouldn't it? It would want to come-this way. ROB HE.RRMANN: Until it over extends itself and it goes back through the center. That's what I'm say~ng. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It does constrict it because it wants to go this way and it can't. ROB HERRMANN: Well what it does is it hits the groin and then goes out and then over but either way it still over extends itself and then breaches through, which is what you see in these photographs. All I'm saying is that this groin is not inhibiting the natural process that's occurring but it is stabilizing the beach in emergency times. Basically the associations immediate response to the thought was, well wait a second this structure is 50 years old and these other groins farther down drift, this Board has grandfathered in the past, why we would we not be allowed to continue. But, that's not the approach that I want to take. I'm trying to go through this to explain_that.. I'm not saying you shouldn't shorten the groin just as a matter of right. I'm saying to shorten the groin isn't going to have the effect that you think it's going to have. Other than the fact that if you cut this back, the inlet will migrate down and cut through this beach but so what. You're going to have an erosion of this beach in the meantime and then eventually this channel is going to cut back out this way anyway. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's just a suggestio¢~ that we made. We made that observation in the fiele similar to the 1988... ROB HERRM,~NN: :Right, beoause that's the situation that's there now. The whole idea .here, given historical evidence that's it's a relatively stable beach, over time, the natural cycle that your looking at there tends to occur over time, why change that portion of it if it's not broken. I don't know if Mr. Taylor has anything to add to that. MR. TAYLOR: I'm in agreement with him, as I explained in the letter that you just read, and there's nothing more that have to say. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you. Is there any other comment? Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Ill make a motion to Approve the application. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES 18. Proper-T Permit Services, Inc. on behalf of ANGELO PADOVAN requests a Wetl and Permit to construct a single-family dwelling, partially on pilings, with on-site sewage disposal system and public water. Located: 22455 Sou ndviewAve. Southold. SCTM#135-1-23&24.1 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application? JIM FITZGERALD: I'm here for Mr. Padovan. would be interested to know what conclusion you arrived at. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh This is one that we inspected two months ago. After inspecting this in January, because it's Coastal Erosion, we made a call to the New York State Coastal Erosion people to try to get a determination from them and we were unable to get an answer from them in two months. Let me just read the CAC comments before I get into the Code. The CAC recommends Disapproval because the applicant should provide details of grade stabilization. The proposed project would have a 23 negative impact to the existing road area. There is also a concern with the proposed septic system. The project is within the Coastal Erosion Hazard Area. If the Town is in the business of approving houses being built within the wetland boundary, the Town needs to establish guidelines to address houses being built on the beach. After reviewing the Code, [ think the Board is inclined to consider that the proposal is to be built on the beach and the beach is defined in Chapter 37-6 Definitions is the zone of unconsolidated earth that extends landward from the mean Iow waterline to the waterward toe cfa dune ora bluff, whichever is the most waterward. It goes on to say about no dune or bluff exists, but there is a bluff:there. Further on in the Code, 37-15 Beach Area, all development is prohibited on beaches as specifically provided forby the Chapter. So I'm inclined to send this back with the applicant's application fee because it's really, it seems black and white, prohibited by the Code, and I don't want to taketheir money to review something that's yew clear cut in Chapter 37. JIM FITZGERALD: I'd be happy to have the money back, however, the Code provides for variances to be granted by the Board of Review, and in Southold Town, it's the Town Board. If you deny it and I go to the Town Board, they're going to say to you, "what do you think? and that's what I would like to know. Aside from the regulations and I know the regulations say you can't build this house, but I would like to know what you and the CAC thinks will be a tribute to the adverse effectsion the environment of building that house in that location. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well it's not a matter of what we think, it's actual black and white Code though. JIM FI1TZGERALD: But if I go for a variance, they're going to be interested in what you think. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Aren't you getting a fair indication of that just by what he said? JIM FITZGERALD: What Al did was read the regulations. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's not what we think, it's in black and white. JIM FITZGERALD: I'm interested to know if you think that there would be some adverse effect on the enwron rnent by building this house. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Honestly, we didn't rewew under Chapter 97 at all so it's hard for me to give you a list of concerns. Our concern was over the Code itself and Chapter 37, the way it was written. I feel it's unfair for us to take $200.00 from an applicant and say, oh by the way, the Code prohibits it, so oh well. That doesn't seem right. JIM FITZGERALD: Can I apply for a variance and still get the $200.00 back? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I don't know what the fees for applying for a variance are. You'll have to take it up with the Town Board. If the Boards agreeable to that, we'll send him his money back. BOARD: Sure. 19. Proper,T Permit Services, Inc. on behalf of STEVEN KRAM requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 13'X 8' +/- extension to the existing house; construct 4'X 57'+/- overall fixed open walkway free-standing dock with steps to grade at landward end. Located: 100 West Lane, Southold. SCTM#88-6-12 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application? JIM FITZGERALD: Yes, I would. I think the part of the application to construct an extension to the house is pretty straight-forward, unless you have any questions. (changed tape) (inaudible) Let me go back if I may. The part of the application that refers to the dock s pretty straight-forward too. Do you have any comments? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll read the CAC comments. The CAC recommen'ds Disapproval of the application because all proposed structures were not staked. In order to achieve the appropriate water depths, the structure would have to go much further out. JIM FITZGERALD: To achieve what water depth? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It doesn't say a specific number...resulting in negative impacts on the entire area including limiting access to the public resources and interfering with navigation. The proposal is for a 68' dock reaching 2 ½' 4". That's the CAC comments but let me take any other comments and then the Board will talk about it. Is there any other comment? RICHARD ENGERT: I'm a Trustee with the Angel Shores Homeowners Association of which we have 41 property owners. I'm sure you've inspected the area. Our private beach is right adjacent to this property and then also on the other side of it there are three more beaches that belong to one of our property owners. On behalf of all 41 members we vigorously oppose the construction of that 57' dock. We have no problem with the other structure but we have three major concerns. One has to do with the...we're on the east side of that dock about 15'...each property line is about 15' from that dock and from what people tell me, and right now I wish I had that gentleman who was speaking on number 17 because I didn't understand a word he said but from what I understand, the water flows from east to west and there is a concern with beach erosion. There ~s a jetty all the way down and when you walk down there on the east side of that jetty, the beach is totally gone and it's just a hole there. Our second concern that we had is that in our covenant which was registered n 1995 with the Suffolk County, on page 41, the Southold Planning Commission put in there that Lots 42, 43, and 44 can not construct a dock or any oth:er structure out into the Peconic Bay so to be consistent with it, if we can't do it, why can the adjacent property owner. Would you like to see this? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No, I believe you. RICHARD E NGERT: Our third concern that we have is that during the summertime, we're going to have about 40 families with small children that 25 use that beach frequently and if you put a dock up, you're going to have boats coming in, jet skis and who knows what. There is certainly a grave certain about safety. We've got kids in the water, their parents in the water and accidents do happen. Once again, those are our three major concerns and if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them for you. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you, that's pretty straight-forward. What were the CAC comments? SCOTT HILARY: In the original application, they referenced a 68' structure and when you de the distance to the beach from the bulkhead seaward, that's approx. 40' right there so the structure wouldn't be going into the water too far. That area on the bay is historically known as...you really need to go out far to try to achieve any water depths. That was one concern. We didn't have any problem with the proposed addition but we do have a probl~em that, that area is not consistent with having those types of structures and itwould limit navigation as well as public access. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Does the Board have any comments? TRUSTEE F©STE~R: Well I kind of thought that was what we discussed. TR.UST~E KRUPSKk Yes. Now spoke to Mr. Fitzgerald and we were getting seme other information, I believe, on docks in the bay from the Baykeeper and we're waiting on that. He's on vacation now so he wasn't available so I had asked Mr. Fitzgerald earlier today if we couldn't split this application off, and review the house addition separately from the dock because we didn't:want to hold up the house application because it's going to require a Building permit and whatnot, from the dock review. I don't know it the Boards inclined to do that or do yeu just want to vote... BOARD~. That's fine. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you think that's appropriate? JIM FITZGERALD~. Yes, that's fine. May I comment on the dock? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Yes. JIM FITZGERALD: Let me ask you this. If that dock were in a creek, would it be acceptable, with all other things being equal? TRUSTEE I~RUPSKI: It depends on the exact location. It's impossible to put that deck...you can't su per~mpose it in any creek because every location is completely different. You and I have been out there in a kayak and know yeu really have to look hard at every location. JIM FITZGERALD: I'm not quite clear on why the Board is interesting in gathering more information. It must be because you think that it's not an appropriate.~place for a dock, correct? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We do. We do feel it. JIM FITZGERALD: Why is that? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We feel it's inappropriate because exactly the reasons the homeowner's association stated. Those are some of our big concerns, safety and navigation. The fact that it's public bottom and it's going to monopolize public bottom where, historically, there is no other docks in that immediate area, and of course, the effect of the environment in that specific area. There's a number of reasons for us to be un-inclined to approve it but if we're going towards the disapproval, we want to make sure that we have all of our facts and figures straight and we don't want to rush into it. JIM FITZGERALD: I think all of the things that you say, with the exception of that there are no other docks in the area, could also apply to a dock in a creek. Safety, navigation, and the environment. I think that dock in that location is less from an environmental standpoint, is less intrusive then a dock in the creek. That's not a great bottom there for food ~)roduction or shellfish production and what have you. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The last couple of years, if you noticed [he length of the catwalk we've been approving in the creek is basically to the edge of the water and not much further. This in fact extends some 30' into the water and so we don't approve too many fixed docks 30' into the actual water. You can't compare this dock with a dock in the creek. JIM FITZGERALD: The only I'm comparing them is simply because docks in the creek almost are routinely approved with appropriate review and discussion. What I'm trying to get at is the reason for your thinking in terms of disapprowng this one merely because it happens to be in the open bay. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: --here is also a history of docks being built on the bay and there are very few in Town for the reason that it's very difficult to keep on a dock in the bay because of the prevailing southwest winds n the summer time. Our experience is that docks, once approved, require amendments to make them larger because there is insufficient water depth and then the dock needs extra pilings to tie the boats up because of the rough water and then the dock needs an "L" or a %" at the end with a wave curtain because of water conditions. These docks, from my experience on the Board, have been, the docks that we've approved on the bay, in my experience, have been mistakes because they've grown from just a dock to almost marinas and have certainly created an impact. JIM FITZGERALD: Well it would be very simple for the Board to put a condition on the project that says "no future extensions". You could put a condition on it that says, because this is the next thing that's going to come up, that if it's not used for two years, then take it out. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No but see, because there's got to be a ...it's not like black and white, here's the dock, it comes in ~his size only. Now, the dock can come in any size so already before this dock is even been shown at a public hearing, there's already a request to add pilings to it so that's just an example of how these docks start to... JIM FITZGERALD: No that was a late... TRUSTEE KRUPSKk No, but I called that one before it happens. These docks tend to grow and here's a request for mooring piles. JIM FITZGERALD: Between you and me. you didn't call it between the time the owner called me and asked me to make that addition. 2? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But I suggested that to you before I knew about the addition. That's been the history of docks on the bay. So that's my feeling from what I've seen as a Board member for years. NEIGHBOR: I'm a homeowner in the association and I have three young children. I just wanted to differ with his opinion about it being no different than a dock in the creek in as much as the adjacent property is a recreational beach so that really Is my major concern. The dock invites boat traffic and that's not a ppropriate next to a private beach that's utilized by 49 families. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. JIM FITZGERALD: From the stand point of the... I think on the things that came up from some discussion was the visual instruction of the dock in the pristine waterfront. While there aren't many docks in the bay throughout the Town, there are an awful lot of groins and jetties and they don't look very different from a distance than a dook does. The other thing is th at during the summertime, there are a lot of boats moored there and some of them are moored very close to public beaches. So, what's the deal there as far as the comment the gentleman just made? Is that a matter that 'the Trustees take into account when you get an application for a mooring that's next to a public or association beach? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh At this time, the Town of Southold does not regulate moorings in the bay. We had about a half an hour discussion about mooring in the bay at our worksession this evening, which is one of the reasons why we started so late. It is becoming a big problem. We attempted to regulate moorings in the bay a number of years ago and we wereibasically shattered down by everybody who was interested in it and received a, bsolutely no support for it. Now, there's seems to be more of a concern because it is becoming such an unregulated activity and justifiably so since the mooring are taking p~ace on public bottom, but that's another issue. JOE GREGO: I'm also a homeowner at Angel Shores. From what I'm seeing of the diagram, this free-standing dock starts at the high-water mark, not at the bulkhead. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's correct. JOE' GREGO: It goes out 57' plus or minus. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's what I'm looking at here, yes. I did have a different plan here a minute ago. JOE GREGO: According to the diagram, at mean-low water, that's 2.4' correct? From my recollection in that area, mean-high water is 3.6' above that. That means this free-standing dock is going to be approximately 8' above meanqow water, and you're looking at it, because you're going to have to come above the 6' level. What I'm getting at is that at Iow-water, there is going to be approximately 6' or 7' of dock in the air and there is going to be barnacles on those poles eventually and like he said, people have small children and even adults, they get a boat wave and gets pushed against one of those pilings with the barnacles, you've got a rough cut. This is a big safety factor. And another thing, fine they're not going to tie a boat up, but is there a restriction in the Town for boat lifts to pull them up out of the water? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No. JOE GREGO: Ok, that's something that could happen, so I think the Town should take all that inlfo consideration. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you. I think the Board is still inclined to gather more information on this and we would be happy to split the application and approve the addition to the house tonight. Ill make a motion to Table the public hearing until next month. TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'/I make a motion to Approve the application portion of it to include only the addition to the house. TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES 20. Land Use Ecological Services, Inc. on behalf of GUSMAR REALTY requests a Wetland Permit re-seed and re-grade existing area, fix sprinkler system, install wood chip access path, and install chain-link fence. Located: Shipyard Lane, East Marion. SCTM#38-7-12 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application? DAN HALL: Good evening, I'm from Land Use to speak on behalf of the applicant. This project is a remediation that was required by the DEC as a settlement for activities involving repair of a utility line and they had to create a buffer area and it appears in the file that your jurisdiction is 100' from the wetland zone and the high-water mark at this site so it really involves the planting of the beach grass. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's correct, that's the limit of our jurisdiction. Is there any other comment? Is there a CAC comment on this? SCOTT HILARY: There was no inspection and no comment. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Ok, thank you. TOM KRAUS: I'm speaking as a representative of the Crescent Beach Condominiums on the ad.acent property to the project. Our concern is based on the fact that the declaration of covenants and restrictions for Summit Estates specifically prohibits what it is they are applying to do. I have copies of the covenants and restrictions for the Board members. This specific site that's in the site plan is referred to on page 4 and continued on page 5 as the land running along the land now or formedy Cleaves Point Condominiums for 540' to the high-water mark on Gardiner's Bay and then across the Cleaves Point Condominiums and up Crescent Beach Condominiums. The site plan is also known on the site map of Summit Estates as a park and recreation area parcel B. If you go to the next page, it says "the fence which extends in the park and recreation parcel B is to be removed". (inaudible) They also raised the property by erecting a concrete wall 4' high so the grades that you see on the site plan stop of the elevation 6' but when you get up past the planting area, it's about 4' higher. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Which was, landward or seaward? TOM KRALIS: Landward. The land up here is a lot higher than the contour lines talked about because of this concrete wall up here, approx. 4'. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm sorry but 1 have to interrupt you. Our jurisdiction is only, and they have it marked here, a 100' from high-water. TOM KRAUS: Is the fence within your jurisdiction? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. Anything landward of that 100' would be outside of the jurisdiction of this Board. Whatever is possible to happen and whatever happens there is out of our jurisdiction. TOM KRAUS: Well ok. I want to refer you to something in the covenants and restrictions. It says that the entire area of area B, page 8, "these areas shall remain in their natural state and maintenance of the natural vegetation is the only use". The only people that can change this is the Town Planning Board What we ask you as Town representatives is to alert the Planning Board to the fact that you had before you an application to violate their covenants and restrictions. TRUSTEE'KRUPSKh Has no one alerted them of this? NEIGHBOR: I thin;k the folks here are asking you ~vhether or not you can send a memo to the Board. TRUSTEE KRUPSK: Well we would be happy to send them a memo but I don't see where. . :and this is under, of course, a two-minute rewew that we've just given this. TOM KRAUS: Well if I could just point out to you, the reason that this is in violation here is that the fence starts approximately say 101' from the high- water mark. If you refer to the covenants and restrictions and I will take you to page 8, which by definition a structure includes the placement of fences. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But the fence is out of our jurisdiction. TOM KRAUS: But you were asking why I as saying it's a violation of the Town Planning Board covenants and restrictions. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No it very well might be but that's strictly for the Planning Board to decide. We have no authority over that at all. TOM KRAUS: know you don't have authority, also know that you've been at the site because you inspect sites. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's correct. TOM KRAUS: You have in your possession an application that includes a site plan that details the violations that they are about to commit. The applicant has a history of committing the violations first and asking for forgiveness later rather than permission. We would like to alert through any form of Town government in any way we can and as many as we can that this is an intended violation. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well if you want us to forward this information to the Planning Board I think we could certainly do that. TOM KRAUS: Ok, thank you very much. 3O TRUSTEE KRUPSKh What this Board is concerned with is the re- vegetation of the disturbed area with the planting ef the 3000 sq. ft. of existing transition zone, Cape American Beachgrass, on 18" centers and 3000 sq. ft. of spartina patens on 18" centers and that would really be the extent, and the path located through that. The 4' wide woodchip path is something that we would normally permit in a non-disturbance area to provide access to the water. When someone has a non-disturbance area, we permit them to have a 4' wide path. That's standard. TOM KRAU S: So the, I guess I misunderstood from the agenda, but the permit request was for the right to erect a fence. I thought therefore you might have a dealing with that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It does say that but we would not be able to act on that though. We would not approve it and based on this plan, it shows we really wouldn't have to approve it because it's greater than 100'. Thank you for point that out though. I hadn't noticed it. TOM KRAUS: Again, we would appreciate it if you would forward that information onto the Planning Board. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Sure. Is there any other comment? NEIGHBOR: Is there anything in the agenda description that you're going to be voting on? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Yes, the replanting. The restoration of the disturbed areas. NEIGHBOR: Is that reseed and regrade existing area? I don't see any reference to replanting anything. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh What ha ppens is this is an old application and over the course of time, this goes back to May of 2001, and over the course of time, these applications evolve, and that's just an old description. We wouldn't be approving the old description. What we would be doing is...and what happens is also, during the course of public hearings, the applications can change also. We would only approve what we want to approve and exclude the rest. NEIGHBOR: You may or may not recall but the reason this happened back in 2001 is because the applicant proceeded with re-grading and not making the proper allowances. DONNA GERAGHTY: That is absolutely incorrect. The reason that there was activity taking place in May is ~n fact that one of our kind neighbors, as myself and the applicant were driving down there one day, on y to find that they were planning to pull out physically, two gentlemen, with their hands, the electric wires. We further had a lot of problems and our wish was never to put a fence up, but we have had problems with our neighbors in cutting our trees down so they can get a water view. These are issues that we would like to be a nice neighbor but, and we've approached them on several occasions, and feel really offended that you people can continuously keep coming here and asking if we're doing something against...and we all have beautiful beaches there and all of you have the right to use your beach, but for some reason, you don't want, in 3! other words, I'm here and we don't anyone else, and that's really what's taking place here. realize that this is not the place to even vent this because your jurisdiction is only 100' but the fact that they are bringing up these issues, these are not things that we want to do. We are trying to restore what our neighbors are trying to destroy. When we do, they bring us back here for an application. This is continuously happening. I don't know what the next issue is but probably a legal matter. That's the only way we can go with this. I don't want to keep coming back here to restore what we had. NEIGHBOR: You're accusing us of doing something. DONNAGERAGHTY: There is two gentlemen, I can knock on doors, but... NEIGHBOR: You are assuming that those people are owners, but you have to have some type of proof when you make a statement like that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: think we kind of got off the subject of our jurisdiction. DONNA GERAGHTY: The reason I brought that up was because that specific issue is what made us have to back and repair a wire and it wasn't re-grading and it wasn't restructuring. It was trying to correct what was going on there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well in any case, we're here now and we're here to satisfy what happened. NEIGHBOR: May I make a comment? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Only on what's happening within 100' on the survey because we have to keep it within the bounds of what we're doing here tonight, NEIGHBOR: Ok. We go back to 1978 to 1982. That was all wetlands. The Owner at the time brought in fill and raised that hand right down to the beach, and put in a 4' concrete wall on each side and raised it. Subsequently, we had to invest ~;40,000.00 because of the water run-off to put in a French drain. We have had problems with these people since then. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But you're getting off of the subject here. We're not really interested in what's going on besides within our 100' jurisdiction because that's what we're concerned with here tonight, and there are other people that are waiting for their applications, and in all fairness to them, we should move on NEIGHBOR: We understand that that portion beyond 100' will be referred to the Planning Board. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Right, we have no jurisdiction there at all. NEIGHB OR: Excuse me but I have a picture of the way the land used to be in 1970. My name is Patrick Regina from Crescent Beach Condominiums. I have a picture right here because we used to vacation there and now we are owners, in 1972. of the way the land, right to the water, used to be. I'd be happy to show this. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Thank you. PATRICK REGINA: If you want these pictures, you can see how the land was flat right to the water. I .lust wanted to bring that to the attention of the Board. You can keep those pictures if you want. I appreciate your time. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there any other comment? CAC comments? SCOTT HILARY: We had no inspection. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'll make a motion to close the hearing. TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to Approve the proposed 3120 sq.ft. of planting of American beach grass and proposed 3000 sq.ft, to be planted with spartina patens on 18" centers and a 4' wide woodchip path to the existing dock. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES 21 Land Use Ecological Services, Inc. on behalf of CHRISTOPHER O'CONNOR requests a Wetland Permit to construct a recreational dock facility consisting of a 4'X 40' fixed CCA timber dock, a 3'X 20' aluminum ram p, and a 6'X 20' float. The fixed dock is proposed to be elevated a min. of 4' above grade in the area of the wetlands vegetation. The ramp and float are proposed to be seasonal. (6) 4"X 4" CCA timber dock posts and (4) 6" dia. CCA timber piles are proposed to support the fixed dock, and (2) 8" dia. CCA timber piles are proposed to support the float. A 4'X 50' +/- natural wood chip access path is proposed from the facility to the upland. Located: 3390 Cox Neck Rd., Mattituck. SCTM#113-8-3 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would like to speak on behalf of the application? DAN HALL: I'm here to represent Chris O'Connor in case there are any questions or comments the Board might have. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We had some comments but, is there any other comment on this application before we take Board comments? What were the Board comments on this one? TRUSTEE FOSTER: I don't think there was any. It was pretty cut and dry, wasn't it? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Does the CAC have any comments? The CAC recommended Disapproval because the project was not staked. TRUSTEE KING: It wasn't staked when we inspected it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That's true, it wasn't. This is a pretty straight- forward one in that it was between two existing docks. It was obscenely larger. Do have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE FOSTER: Ill make a motion to Approve the application provided that it doesn't protrude past the line between the two docks on either side. TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES 22. Catherine Mesiano. Inc. on behalf of SOUTHOLD PARK DISTRICT requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct 235' of existing functional concrete bulkhead, maintenance dredge slips and adjacent area to -4' MLW for access, reconstruct open fixed dock on the south and east sides. Located: Young's Ave. Park, Southold. SCTM#64-1-10.1 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh is there anyone who would like to make any comments on behalf of the application? CATHERINE MESIANO: I'm here on behalf of the applicant. You have questions? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We have a bunch of questions. CATHERINE MESIANO: Why don't you ask your questions because the application, I've given you specifications of the applications, but if you have questions ask and I'll answer what I can and Mr. Latham is here to help me. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Actually, we've been entertaining this for years. We've been taking about this for a number of years. We were kind of curi~ous as to the nature of the whole set-up down there. Who gets a si ~p, how do they get a Slip, who ~lets the fees, because it was under our impression that the whole docking facility was on Town owned bottom. We were kind of curious to how that all works. CATHERINE MESIANO: Well I'll tell you as much as know. Southold Park Distdct is a taxing authority that gets its authority from the New York State Legislature. Southold Park District has authority over what's recogni;zed as the old Southold School District so it doesn't service residerzce of Peconic so it's the old Southold School District. The slips are rented by lottery. The notice is in the local papers and there's a deadline date given and people who wish to be considered submit their application to the park district by a certain date. When the lottery is drawn, they generally pull 22 ~0r 23 names and I believe there are 18 sli ps so they have Several~ alternate~ names on the slips. The slips on the east facing side are rented at $100.00 per year and the south side is $50.00 per year and the money,gges, I b(~Iieve, into the general fund because the park district is a taxing authority. Th?y are a taxing authority so it goes back into the general fund. ~h~t's What I know about that. I'm curious, if you don't mind my asking, what ~is has to do with the permit process? TRUSTEE KRUF~SKI: We because pub c access is such a big ~ssue in Town and all of the boats are moored over publicl bottom, and it's not .ust the park distdct bottom, it's the Town's bottom. It's really our responsibility to questions what's past practices or current practices, to try to see what's fair for the Town itself, because the boats are parked over a Town resource. Not that we want to burst their bubble and I'm not saying we're going to burst their bubble but I'm just saying that we wanted a clarification as to exactly what: was going on there and how it was set up. CATHERINE MESIANO: Ok, spoke with Mike Hagerman and asked him how it was determined who gets assigned what slip and that's how it's determined. 34 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there any comment on that? CATHERINE MESIANO: I asked the question and that was the answer I was g~ven. If you have any further questions on that, ask away. intended to have a representative of the park district here but no one was available. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It seems like a nice facility. TRUSTEE FOSTER: We had some comments about the application. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Actually there were some suggestions during field inspection, one of which was to build a bulkhead behind it and then removethe concrete from in front of it. It was certainly minimize the impact of it growing into the creek. CATHERINE MESlANO: I understand that there has been some discussion with the DEC and rather than spend a lot of time talking about the hypotheticais on how it might be done. I think that we should defer the discussion about the bulkhead because after my discussion with the park distdct last week, I brought up some issues with them that they needed to deal with and identify the answers to. They are doing more investigation. So, the bulkheading aspect of this project is not as important to me right now as the dredg.ing is so what I would like to do is deal with the dredging and Table the bulkheading aspect of this because they weren't fully prepared to comm!t to a couple of items that need them to be committed to such as your discussion of building a bulkhead behind vs. building a bulkheadqn front vs. taking out completely what's there and putting inplace a new bulkhead. TRUSTEE FOSTE R: Is that existing wall going to withstand any amount of dredging in front of it? CATHER~INE MESlANO: I have Mr. Latham here. TRUSTEE FOSTER: It looks pretty deteriorated along the base. Are you going to be able to dredge in front of it without... MR. LATHAM: Not directly in front of it. TRUSTEE FOSTER: No, you would have to leave a shelf there. Then, when it's,replaced ,later on. naturally you'll have to take the concrete out so they do the rest of the dredging at that time? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Another concern was that on the south side, if you went out to 4', to a 4' water depth out to the existing piles, you basically would becreating a big old hole there. CATHERINE,MESIANO: The problem that we have right now is that it appears that the run-off from Youngs Ave. and Mechanic Street is funneled into this creek. TRUSTEE FOSTER: That's what fills them all up. CATHERINE MESlANO: I know where now here to address what the Highway'Dept. ought to be doing but many times I have come before you and we'vb had this discussion that a lot of my clients problem is the problem that's created by the Town's Highway Dept. and I know if the DEC looked at it they wouldn't be happy about it either because they don't want your run-off going into the water. So, yes it is shallow and again, Mr. Latham would have to address any of the technical as pects of that. 35 Basically what we're looking to accomplish is to dredge to 4' at mean-low water and I suppose if there are variables that we need you to take into consideration, and some temporary (inaudible) on the south side, we have to consider that, but the intention was to dredge the area where the piles are out to the channel which from my discussion with Mr. Latham, would probably be about, what would you say.. JOHN HOCKER: I would say you would have to get outside of the existing piles. CATHERINE MESIANO: It would be about 20' or 30' outside of the existing piles. Now the manner of which direction it would be done would be done by land as well as barge. (inaudible) We anticipate it to be approximately 1000 cy. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I think what we would like to see on the dredging, if you could put poles in, to the extent that...and it necessary on the south side to go to4'? CATHERI.NE MESIANO: Probably. (inaudible) TRUSTEE FOSTER: 3',more then there's now?. A total of 3'? TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It s only a half a foot there. You only have 2' and 3' out there. Yc~u have 3' here. If they on ty went to 3' here or even 2 ½' it would accommodate a lot of boats. CATHERINE MESIANO: Mr. Latham feels that it would be appropriate to dredge to 4' because once that dredging is accomplished the silt is going to fill in the surrounding areas and he's not going to end up with a 4' depth because the silt:will migrate into that area. It's going to fill in to ,3' anyway. TRUSTEE'FOSTER: Probably the best you could hope for is 3 when you;re done. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And what would the extent to the north be? How far would you go towards that dock, the neighbor's dock? CATHERINE MESIANO: As far as the pilings go. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Ok, so could we have that staked out? Could you put poles in the water where the extent of the total dredging would be? It doesn't really St-tow here and it doesn't show how far it would go out to the east. Why don't you call up the DEC and have them meet us out there and we'll discuss the bulkhead situation. Whatever day, it doesn't have to be the field inspection day, and we'll discuss the bulkhead situation, because the bulikhead is pretty poor ~n a couple of sections. CATHERINE MESIANO: We all recognize that and we recognize the end solution before there's that major storm that's going to wash the whole thing out. TRUSTEE KRU:PSKh Well I don't know if you're going to wash it out. CATHERINE MESIANO: I think you would do sufficient damage if you had a bad enough storm with a high enough tide, I mean that's one of the things we were talking about. What happens when the "what if" occurs. What if we get that major storm? TRUSTEE FOSTER: Plus you have to consider all of that run-off that's going in there from the land at the same time. 23. MR. LATHAM: (inaudible) TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'll make a motion to Table the application. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES Catherine Mesiano, Inc. on behalf of ALLEN KRAUS requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 28'X 60' single-family dwelling, on-site sewage disposal system and pervious driveway. Located: S/E Corner Second Ave & Huntington Blvd., Peconic. SCTM#67-4-20.3&20.4 TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application? CATHERINE MESIANO: Well we met at the site and we had the discussion regarding the buffer area and Mr. Kraus is more than happy with your suggestion of the 30' non-disturbance buffer and then a 20' non- turf buffer landward of that. I'll get a revised ma p to reflect that and submit that to you. I understand that there was a comment by a neighbor. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We just received two comments. (Trustee Krupski reading letter On file from Sarah and David Evans.) CATHERI NE MESIANO: Well the incorrect information that they are citing reflects as much as we were able to know at the time the survey was done and I don't think it's relevant to this application. The property is by rights a property that can be developed and we are developing this property ~n a responsible manner and until issues such as sewage disposal and water supply are approved bythe Health Dept., no construction will be taking place and since both of those systems will be outside of the Trustees jurisdiction, I don't think the, re's too much to discuss. TRUSTEE FOSTER: They re going to make you get an approved well. Do you have to do a well in there? CATHERINE MESIANO: We'll have to go for a variance for the septic system. TRUSTEE FOSTER: The water down there isn't good you know. Iive there and that's why I know. CATHERINE MESIANO: The likelihood of public water coming down there is not in our lifetime. TRUSTEE FOSTER: Doesn't appear to be that way. CATHERINE MESIANO: No. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh have another letter here. (Trustee Krupski reading letter on file from Gall Doroski. CATHERINE MESIANO: Well again, we'll be building to Town Code. It won't be any higher than [he 35' that the Code allows. Again, her concerns are in areas that are outside of your jurisdiction. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The CAC did not see it. SCOTT HILARY: No we did but the proposed project was not staked when we did our field inspection so we disapproved it but would ask that the Trustees request the maximum buffer. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We did. We requested a buffer and because of the location, we thought that was certainly adequate, it's kind of a heavily ~mpacted area. Is the house going to be on pilings. CATHERINE MESlANO: No. TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I see the test hole only has 6' to water. CATHERINE MESlANO: The house would be built on a foundation, not pilings. It's an AE elevation 8' so the first floor elevation will have to be a minimum of 11'. (inaudible) TRUSTEE KRUPSKh What about the amount of fill? CATHERINE MESIANO: At this point, he's using what comes out of the excavation for the foundation. He's looking to do minimal disturbance on this lot. He doesn't want lawn, he doesn't want manicured areas, and he wants-to clear enough 'to get the house within that building envelope and has come up with a plan that will give him what he wants within that area that will meet variances for the side and front yard, with minimal diStL~rba nce to the lot. TR.U~TEE FOSTER; You couldn't put fill in that lot anyway. TRU~STEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment? I~o I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE KING: So moved. TRUSTEE FOSTER: ,S,,econded. ALL AYES T~S-FEE FOSTER: I II make a motion to Approve the application with a 30 nan-d stuirbance buffer and 20' non-turf buffer and drywells and gutters for '~be roof run-off. TRQSTEE'; DiCKERSON: Seconded. ALL AYES TRUSTEE KING moved to adjourn the meeting, TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded. ALL AYES Meeting adjourned at: 11:00 PM. Respectfully submitted by, Lauren M. Standish, Senior Clerk RECEIVED AND FILJED BY To,~ Cle~l~, Town o~ ;:¢ '* ~'