HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-08/22/1957 APPEAL BOARD
MEMBERS
Rober+ W. Gill]sp]e, dr., Chairman
t~obect [~erge~
H~rb~ff Rosenberg
Charles Gregonis, Jr.
Serge Doyen, Jr.
51'IUTHnLD, L. I., N.Y.
Telephone SO 5-2660
Southold Town Board of Appeals
August 22, 1957
A regttlar meeting of the Southold Town Board of Appeals was held at 7:30 P.M. on
Thursday, August 22, 1957, at the Town Clerk's Office in Southold, N. ¥.
There were present:
R. W. Gillispie, Jr., Chairman
Robert Bergen
Herbert Eosen~erg
Charles Gregonis, Jr.
Also: Mr. Howard E. Terz~, Building Inspector
~sent: Mr. Serge Doyen, Jr.
PUBLIC I~J~ING: Appeal No. 14 -Application of Leslie Jewell, BeckwithAvenue,
Southold N. Y., for a variance to the Zonin~ Ordinance on lot 90! x 160I, facing
private right-of-way and beginning 1801 from Bay View Road, S outhold, N. Y.
Letter advi~in~ of d~te of public hearing, legal notices with affidavits from
two official town newspapers ~nd applicmtion for variance were read by the Chairman.
0hairms~: "Is there anyone present who wishes to speak "for" this appeal? Anyone
"against" ? There being no response I believe the Doard is agreed that this ~ppeal
~e grs~ted."
Lot was purchased in 1955 and has been held in single and separate ownership since
that date. Owner is unable to purchase any adjacent land to increase the width of lot,
total are of which is 14,200 sq. ft. Since the variande does o~serve the spirit of the
Ordinance and strict application of the Ordinance would produce undue and ~que hard-
ship, the ~oardun~mouslyagreed to grs~t th~s appeal.
Hearing ended.
MinUtes of the August 15th meeting were read. On motion made by AVer. Rosenberg,
seconded by Mr. Gregonis, and carried, minutes were approved.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 15 - Application of James F. Douglas~, Orient, ~. Y.,
variance to the Zoning Ordinance on plot No. 2, Harbor Hoad, Orient, N. Y., on map
dated Sept. 15, 1950. 68! on Harbor Hoad, 80! on waterfront with depth of 200~.
Southold T own Board of Appeals
August 22, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
Letter to Mr. Douglass advisin~ of date of hearing, legal notices with affidavits
from two official town newspapers and application for variance were all read by the
Chairman.
Chairman: "Is there anyone present who wishes to speak"for" this appeal?I~
Mr. Ernest G. Radford, Bast M~rion, N.Y. - "I wish to say only that I would
apprect~.te it if the board would grant this appeal. I think the sketch which is
attached to the appeal indicates the situation, and a m~p, dated September 15, 1950,
which I have here might be of interest to the board.
Chairman: "Is there anyone present who wishes to speak "against" this appeal?"
Board studied appeal and unanimously agreed to grsnt the appeal as strict ~oplics~tion
to the Ordinance would produce undue and tmique hardship and the variance would observe
the spirit of this Ordinance.
Hearing ended.
PUBLIC B~RING: Appeal No. 16, application of Leonard Gilman, M.D. of 12 Sputh
Mountain Avenue, Eontclair, N. J., for variance on Lot. Po. 14 on tracing of n~p of
"Laughing Waters", Section l, Southold, N. Y. Lot 84~ on the water, 60~ on ~nnehaha
Blvd., with average depth of 134~.
Chairman read letter to Dr. Gilman ~dvising o£ date of hearing, legal notices with
affidavits from two official town newspapers and application. He then explained to all
present (~pproximately 27 people in ~ll) the procedure taken in a public hearing, advis-
ing that all those wishing to spea~would have an opportunity to do so and that rebuttal
of testimony would be allowed b~t cross-examination of witnesses would not ~e permitted
as this is a board of equity.
Chairman: "Is there anyone present who wishes to ~pe~k "for" this ~ppeal?"
~r. A. Reilly of Mattituck, N.Y., Builder: Dr. Gilman asked us, my Son s~d I, to
~ppear for him. I think everything is stated in the appeal. He h~s paid for the permit
to ~uild pendin~ an immediate decision this evening. We would like to find out your
decision so that we csm get started.
Chairman~ "Anyone wishing to speak "against" this ~opeal?"
Mr. Stanley S. Corwin, Greenport, N.Y. - Representi~ a group of people from
"Laughing Waters" - "There are several things we would like to put across to the board.
Primarily I should like to get a look at the applicatiom. I have a map of "Laughing
Waters" here which I think sets forth the lot under consideration this evening.
Description of it is: Section l, Southold, N. Y., property of C. H. Wickham.
Chairman: "Date of this map, please.
Mr. Corwin: "There is no date. The dimensions on applicant's map are not identi-
cal with the larger map which t h~ve here. Property being 80~ in front ~nd 60~ in rear
I presume that they are talking about the waterfront and the road frontage being in rear
of the property. All the properties face the water. We are going to be concerned with
setbacks. Ordinarily we think of the setbacks as being from the road. There h~s been
evidence that these lots do not Jibe with the m~p and if that is so it may well be that
Southold Town Board of Appeals
August 22, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
the small m~p you have does not indicate exactly the boundaries of the $ilman property.
Chairmsl~: "Did Dr. Gilman have a survey m~de?"
Mr. Reilly: "Yes."
Mr. Corwin: "This topography of Mr. Van Tuyl~s jibes with the map ~ut does not Jibe
with the sketch accompanying his application. I should like to say that first off we
wsnt to enter an objection to the form of the application. It is made by a corporation
and is not properly executed in the first instance."
Ch~irm~n: ~You say that it is m~ie by a corporation Amd is not properly executed.
W~uat do you mean ~y theft. In so far as I know there is nothin~ in the Ordinance that
states who shall apply for a variance. We have had occasion to consider applications
before where a ~ilder has applied for the variance. You think this is not properly
executed?"
Mr. 0orwin$ "Yes. I do not mean to say that the owner is the one to ~oply.
Builders, or Agents, or others may do it ~ut not without the proper corporate seal. I
should like to know whether or not we are proceeding under the first section of the
0rdin~uce or whether or not we are to understand that application is being made to the
board under the section sub-division. As I understand it, the ~oard is limited.
Application is made to the Building Inspector. He, if he is obliged to do so, rejects
it and then, pursuant to your rules, an appeal is made to this body."
Chairman: "For sometime we have been trying to get a legal opinion from our
counsel with reference to the point you just made. In other words, we felt, if it were
possible under the Ordinance, that application on a lot held in single and separate
ownership before the en~ctment of the Ordins~ce could be made di~ectly to the Building
Inspector who would be empowered, where the side yard~ restrictions were not violated
in excess of 50 percent, to issue a ~uilding permit. Just the other day we got the
answer. I believe that this may have some bearing on your remarks as to the propriety
of variance ~eing applied for and I would like to read the letter, dated August 9,
1957, from Mr. E. G. Terry, Jr., Town Counsel:
"Opinion ~l.
With reference to your inquiry as to the necessity for a variance on
a lot held in single and separate ownership that is undersized and o~ed
prior to the enactment of the zoning ordinauce, this is to advise you
that, based upon my interpretation of the ordins~ce, it is my opinion
theft Section 307 warrsmts the issusnce of a permit by the Building
inspector when he is satisfied that the side yards are not reduced
beyond 50%and that all other conditions of the ordin~nce are complied
with. No ~oplication for a varie~ce or special exc~otion is required
unless the applicant desires ~ further reduction in the side yards."
~r. Corwin$ "I think that it does. I subscribe 100 percent to the opinion that
Mr. Terry has given this board. I should like to point out that it is possible to put
a ~uilding on this lot which will not h~ve the necessary side lines, etc."
1~. Reilly: "I w~s wondering what Mr. Corwin bas in mind. We intend to standby
the sidelines and requirements, and everything else."
Southold Town Board of Appeals
August 22, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
Mr. Cerwin: "With respect to the application I should like to call to your atten-
tion the fact that it does not truthfully state w~u~t the facts are. It said, among
other things, that it was between similar lots. That is not the case. The property to
the north is Lot 13 and is owned by¥~. Schneider. There were three lots between the
road to the north and this present one ~nd the three lots were divided so that there is
actually a lot ~ud a half owned by each party. Mr. Schneider and his son own half of
lot 12 and all o£ lot 13. Mr. Hofford owns the northly half of Lot 12 and all of lot
ll. The three lots to the south are owned by two different people. There is one lot
65t in front owned by Mr. Edsel. The lot adjacent is a combination of two lots."
Chairman: "Mr. Edsel owns lot No. 157"
Mr. Corwin: "Yes. Lots 16 and 17 are owned by one person so you see that the
application does not give this board the proper indication o£ what the situation is in
this vicinity. The exercise of the zoning ordinance is the exercise of the police power
as granted to the Town Board and the limits under which they have rights to zone as
prescribed by that law. Lots of people are hurt when a zoning ordinance is adopted.
Once it is adopted values are set. In accordance withthe zoning law people are hurt
when variances a~e granted. There are about 36 members of the Civic Association and
there is a unanimous£eeling among this group that this varis~ce should not be granted.
Of course our problem is one of wondering what the nature of the variance is but they
do not say ~ud that is one of the reasons that we are considering the entire ~plication
improper and we do not think there is any un~ue hardship."
Chairman: "They ask for a variance to Section 303 of AI~ICLE III. Now would you
say that this was not being specific enough? We have recommended to the Town Board
that this Section be ch~uged to include the word"and" in place of "or" where it speaks
of a lot having a frontage of less th~n one hundred feet. Would you say that that was
not being specific enough?"
Mr. Corwin: "I think the ordinance in tha. t respect is poorly drawn. If you ge
on to Section 307 and 308 there are proviso paragraphs. I think that you have got to
read all of these sections together and it ~opears that the Town Board, at the time it
adopted this ordinance, did not intend tl~?~t a house be built on less th~u 12,500 sq.
ft. and if that is so, and if we are going to be consistent, the applicant should ms/~e
application to the ~uilding inspector snd, in that case, we would not be here this
evening.
Mr. Reilly: ~e have applied for a permit. We showed the inspector the size of
the house, setbacks, etc."
Chairman: "Application was made before we received the letter from Mr. Terry.
Mr. Corwin: "Regardless of the letter, if you were proceeding in the norn~l
administration of the ordinance then notice for rejection for reasons stated therein
would be a part of this applicatlon and we do not think that the board would have
authority to pass on it."
Chairman: "Just how would you ~ndle an application for a v~riance on an undersized
lot? There are several circumstances under which a variance has to be secured to build
a residence or home on an undersized lot. We assume that when we issue a variance that
other regulations of the Ordins~ce will be observed. We do not issue a variance and euote
the entire Ordinance." You say that this application is not in proper form and does not
contain the corporate seal. I am sure that we can get a corporate seal if it is necessary
but I would not want to have another public hearing on this unless it is necessary.
Southold Town Board of Appeals
August 22, 1957
MthWjTES, Continued
Mr. Corwin: ~'We object to the fact tk~t the builder is making application instead
of the applicant. Dr. Gilman owns another piece of prmperty nearby and other properties
here and he is intending to develop these and put up some houses for rental. This area
is not that kind of development at the present time and it is not an area that the people
wish to have ch~ed by making it in the nattu~e o£ a motel. We realize that people who
own property have a right t~ put up a house and rent ~ut £rsnd~ly this is in the nature
of a business and would change it into a business district and I think this board should
tske into consideration the type of people who live here.
Oh~irm~n: "Tou say Dr. Gilman owns several parcels of l~nd and you believe that it
is his intention to put up rental units."
Mr. Reilly: "Mr. Gilman owns three other lots."
Ch~irm~n: "~.re there any other houses that are rented."
Eathleen Wright: "Yes there are. We live in the connm~tty and there are others here
who might like to make their personal views to the ~o~rd. We do not think that Dr.
will live in this development. He lives in Montclair."
Mr. Reilly: "Dr. Gilman plans to live in this house himself."
Chairman: "Do you know how long this lot has been on the market?"
Mr. Reilly: "lO years."
Chairman: "I might add something. It is illegal under the N. ¥. State law. under
which we are acting, to require that a certain amount of money be spent to ~o.ild a house;
that is in a Zoning Ordinance. ~he developer can impose that type of restriction.
Whether a man spends $1,000 or lO0,O0~ is not a m~tter which legally concerns us.
Mr. Reilly: "The cost of the house Dr. Gilman intends to ~uild is $7.500.00.
~. Corwin: "I thank you for hearing me out. I will stand aside for the moment."
Nrs. Schneider: "Should not the 251 side yard apply to this lot~"
Chairm~n: "We can impose restrictions as to sidelines and the ordinance provides
that the sidelines can be reduced by 50 percent."
Mrs. Schneider: "This, roughly, is about 9,600 sG. ft. Wh~t about off the street
parking?"
Mr. Rosen~erg$ "The ordinance provides for off-street parking. Also that no house
can be put further forward than ether houses in the district."
Charles EoFford: "I own lot No. ll. We have no gripe or o~jection to ~. Reilly.
He has put in quite a few houses there and they are nice places. H~ving served on the
zoning ~oard in Great Eeck I know what you are up a~ainst. I spoke with Dr. Gilman and
he said he ~ just bought four lot~ a~ was going to build a pl~,ce for himself and also
put up rental units. I told him that there was a new zoning ordinance in the Town and he
said he would h~ve to find out about it. He said he had ~ou~ht lots 9 and 10. Applica-
tion states that the lot in question is between lots of similar size and that is not
entirely correct.
Chairman: "We appreciate hearing from some one who has had experience along this line.
It is our understanding that there are no adjoining lots to the one in question which can
be purchased."
Southold Town BOard of Appeals
iug_~t 22, 1957
MI~UTE S, Continued
Mr. Hoff~)rd: "As I understand it, he has a lot across the street and two other lots."
Mr. Rosenberg: "You would not call this ~ijacent would you Mr. Hofford? All we are
concern~i with now is Lot No. 14. This is the variance the man has applied for and
Mr. Reilly, representing the ~3~ver, is here fore the same purpose."
Mr. Hofford: "We are concerned with this from the commercial standpoint. This
might be one of the rental units. It is anybodyts guess."
Mr. Rosenberg: "So far he ha~s stated to Mr. Reilly that he is going to live in it.
I would like to read Section 802 of the ordinance, "The Board of Appeals shall make rules
as to the manner of filing appeals or applications for special exceptions or variances".
It is up to us whether it requires a corporate seal. All we are trying to do is follow
out the duties of the board and I dontt really think that it makes any difference whether
the application is made in red ink, green ink or contains a corporste seal."
Mr. Corwin: "The ordinance provides that all rules and procedures of this board
should be filed in the Town Clerk's office. I came to the Town Clerk's office during
business hours but was told th~.t the Board of Appeals had filed no rules or procedures
with the Town Clerk's office. Now it nm~y be th~%t you considered them to have been filed
there in the Town Clerk's office, as this is also your office. I am not saying that to
be critical but just to point out that we h~ve tried to present the objections in accord-
s~ce with the rules you have m~de."
Chairman: "}~. ~osenberg and I spent a great deal of time in outlining rules and
procedures as simply as possible in connection with the Building Zone Ordlnence. The
Southold To~m Board published this simplified information sheet on April 29, 1957, and
it was based on our recommendation to the Town Board."
Mr. Corwin: "The rules and procedures you have are a little inadequate. I would
like to say that where there is asmall lot the property owner takes the position he cannot
build on it because he won't be able to get a variance end in that connection I was talk-
ing to some of the property owners in L~ughing Waters last Sunday and they feel that he
can sell it for a reasonable price."
Chairman: "I do not think that that has been advanced. In any case, as you orobably
know, and Mr. Hofford knows, the board is not able to consider financial hardship~ Is
there any one else who wishes to
Mrs. Sc~ueider: ~e are trying to conserve the waterfront. We are afraid houses
will be squeezed in and I think it would be wiser to leave open sp~ces along the water-
front."
Chairman: ~e agree. The Zoning Commission spent more time on the subject of size
of the lot which would %e in the ordinance than on any other one thing. We considered
objection from young people, who perhaps are not as well off financially as the people
of Lau~hing Waters. We considered, among other things, the usual restrictions of the
Board of Health and after much study reached the conc~lusion theft lO0~ x 125~ should be
the minimum lot size. To msmy people that size lot is a hardship in itself. As you
know in same areas they are getting as high as 50 to 100 dollars per foot for waterfront
property and for some people that is an enormous price to acquire waterfront property.
Mrs. Kelly: "People who buy waterfront property are luxury buyers who are buying
for their pleasure and I am sure that if Dr. Gilman bought four lots it cannot be con-
sidered a hardship. We want to keep that place nice and do not want to see places rented
to people who will not care. Th~%t~ is what he is up to, living in one place until such
time as he builds 8nother. Mr. Edsel tried to buy tt~t property ~ut it was sold to
Dr. Gilman withthe idea that he would buy more, so those things I think should be
Southold Town Board of Appeals Au~ ~ 22, 1957
MII~UTES, Oontinued
considered and thought about. It is not a hardship for people who are doing luxury buying."
Deborah Aldrich: "I am President of Laughing Waters Cf~ic Association which has been
in effect for two years now. Recently ma~y new houses ]~ve gone up in our section.
There are a few houses which have been there for 20 years or more. ~4any of us b~ve a great
deal of money in our l~ud and our houses. We have a financial interest in our. properties
snd do not want to see it go do%~ in value. Also where our children ru$ and play in the
streets we feel tb~t people who are renting will perhaps not be as careful.
Mr. Reilly: I'We l~ve a house do%~n there now which we built, which is a very nice
house. We are putting up a $7,500.00 house for Dr. Gilman."
Mr. Edsel: ~;~ay I say that it faces the wrong side."
Mr. Rosen~erg: "I~r. Edsel could you give us the approximate price of the house that
is south of the l~nd in c_uestion."
~r. Edsel: l'Price as $3.500.00. It is double today.
M_rs. Bork: "~r. Reilly says he is putting up a $7,500.00 house for Dr. GiLman and
the other house he built to sell is on the market for 17 or 18 thousand."
Mrs. Yarro: "I would just like to say that we are against it."
Mrs. Lohn: "I think the main purpose of this consideration is the fact that the
house will ~e too close ~d will hsve the other fellow looking in his windows. If they
do not have a reasonable distance between each it will defeat the whole purpose of tryir~g
to make things look nice."
Ct~irman: "We can impose some restrictions on the building on this lot. Is there
anyone who wishes to speak for "rebuttal" for this appeal?"
~r. Reilly: l'Would you suggest tk~.t we hold up a day or so. We la. ye signed a
contract but will hold up if ~r. Edsel wishes to purchase this lot." "I would just like
to say t~9~t Dr. Gilman came down toe the Town C]~k~s office and we all spoke to Mr. Terry.
Dr. Gilman signed some of the papers and we signed the application. Dr. Gilman paid for
this permit."
Mr. Terry, Building Inspector: "On a 100t lot you are only required 25~ for side
yards. In their application they specify 28! for side yards."
Mrs. Vanderbeack: "I spoke with Mr. Gilra~,n and he said he intended to build on the
waterfront. One house for himself and three rentals. We do not know who is going to
rent them."
Chairman: "Is Dr. Gilman aware of the ~ount of protest to all this or is he in the
dark?"
Mr. Reilly: "I do not think he realizes. Dr. Gilnk%n asked to have a completed
home e~ud he wanted to live in that house but at the present he is onSy Yuilding the one
house."
C~irman: "We will -T~ebes~ this meeting without a decision, pending the outcome
in case ~-~. Edsel purchases this particular lot. There is nothing we can do about the
other lots Nr. Gilman has purchased nor can we prohibit the building of a house for
rent. We do not always know when lots are purchased what the land will be used for."
Southold Town Board of Appeals A~ st 22, 1957
MINUTES,.Continued
Mrs. Aldrich: "In regard to these rentals, if this man cannot build on a small lot
and he had to ?us'chase lO0! average we feel that pwrh~Jps we c~ stop him from building
rentals as that would be quite expensive."
Chairman: "Do any of the members of the board wish to say anthing at this time?"
Mr. Rosenberg: "I think that perhaps by giving Mr. Edsel a chs~ce to speak to
Dr. Gilman he may be able to purch~se the lot s~nd then, when we have further word we can
make the decision."
Mr. Corwin: "One of the aspects of hardship in an application of this nature is
whether or not Dr. Gilman owned the property at the time the Ordinance went into effect.
The circumstances that would prevail might have some bearing on the board's decision and
I should like to have an opportunity to find out when the property was acquired by him
and submit evidence of it."
Mr. Rosenberg: "He acquired ~t after zoning went into effect. It may not be
necessary to ha~e ~other public hearing. Probably Mr. Reilly will withdraw the applica-
tion and that would solve the whole problem. If not, hearing will be reconvened in about
three weeks. Is that satisfactory to you Mr. Reilly? I presume that Dr. Gilman does
not expect to live in the house this year."
Nr. Reilly: "He has given us a certain smount of money to get started on it.
the people want to buy the property we will just step out of the picture."
Chairman: "I think that someone who ~uows Dr. Gilman should contact him. How
about the Civic Association?"
If
Mr. Corwln: "Going on their behalf I would follow up but I do not represent
Mr. Edsel directly. I would ss~ that three weeks would be ample time."
Chairman: "we will reconvene in three weeks if necessary."
Hearing ended.
PUBLIC HEARING: Appeal No. 17 on application of Franklin C. Ashby, 94 Milburn Ave.,
Hempstead, N. Y., for variance to zoning ordins~ce on Lot. No. 3 on map of "Cove Park",
dated July 29, 1957. Property located on Priw~te Road, %lest Side of 6th St., Greenport,
N.Y., 97~ on north, ll3~ on east and west and 100.05~ on south, total of ll,O00 sq. ft.
Letter to Mr. Ashby advising of date of hearing, legal notices with affidavits
from two official town newspapers and ~pplication for vari~muce were read by the
Chairman.
There bei~ no one present wishing to spe~k either "for" or "against" this appeal,
board studied application and unanimously voted to grant appeal. It was the board's
decision that Mr. Ashby has adapted the property in so far as possible to the zoning
ordinance. On suggestion of this board Mr. Ashby has incre~,sed the size of most o~ the
lots.
Board studied petition of Ursula Sledzieski ~d Lawrence T. Waita for a change of
zone on property, located in Southold, N. Y., to be used by a veterinarian. It was
decided to advise the Town Supervisor that before considering this appeal as a special
exception the board would have to have a legal opinion from the Town Counsel.
Southold Town Board of ~ppeals
August 22, 1957
MINUTES, Continued
pUBLIC PIE,~ING: ApPeal No'. 18 on application of Franklin C. Ashby, 94 Milburn
Avenue, HemPstead, N. Y., {or variance to zoning ordln2~nce on Lot. No. 13 on map of
"Cove Psmk~, dated July 29, 1957. Property located on Private Road, West Side of
6th Street,'Greenport, N. Y., 87.5! on north and south x 14Or on east and west, a
total of 12,250 sq. ft.
Letter to Mr. Ashby advisin~ of date of hearing, legal notices ~ith s£fidavits
from two official town newspapers and applic~,tion fa0r variance were read by the
Chairm~u.
There being no one present wishing to spea~ either "for" or "~gainst" this
appeal, board studied application ~nd un~nimously voted to grant this appeal. It
was the bo~rdts decision that Mr. Ashby had adapted the property in so far as possible
to the zoning ordinance. On suggestion of this board Mr. Ashby l~s increased the Size
of most of the lots.
Eeari~g ended.
Board, after lengthy discussion regarding the operation of se,nd and gravel pits,
decided to send their recommendation to the Southold Town Pla~ing Board for the
inclusion of a paragraph, to be numbered l?, to ARTICLE IV, Section '400 of the
Zoning Ordinance, which would assist in controlling the unregulated sale o£
gravel and top-soil.
Meeting adjourned at 11:50 P.M.
Respectfully s~bmitted,
Secretary