HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-08/31/2015 ���'' -- MAILING ADDRESS:
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS •0#10 SO!/t P.O.Box 1179
DONALD J.WILCENSHI 1" ®4 ®l® Southold, NY 11971
Chair �1 OFFICE LOCATION:
WILLIAM J.CREMERS �s Town Hall Annex
PIERCE RAFFERTY �� 54375 State Route 25
JAMES H.RICH III ®�� �`A ��� (cor.Main Rd. &Youngs Ave.)
MARTIN H.SIDOR _ COU ,* .8 ,
Southold, NY
Telephone: 631 765-1938
www.southoldtownny.gov
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
RECEIVED
OCT - 8 2015 eel: io ew^
PUBLIC MEETING Southold Town Clerk
MINUTES
-- AUGUST 31, 2015
6:00 p.m.
Present were: Donald J. Wilcenski, Chairman
James H. Rich Ill, Vice Chairman
William J. Cremers, Member
Pierce Rafferty, Member
Martin Sidor, Member
Mark Terry, Principal Planner
Brian Cummings, Planner
Alyxandra Sabatino, Planner
Carol Kalin, Secretary
SETTING OF THE NEXT PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Chairman Wilcenski: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the
regularly scheduled August 31, 2015 Southold Town Planning Board meeting. The first
order of business is for the Board to set Monday, October 5, 2015 at 6:00 p.m. at the
Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, as the time and place for the next regular
Planning Board Meeting.
James H. Rich Ill: So moved.
William Cremers: Second.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 12 August 31, 2015
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Jim, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
SUBDIVISIONS
Final Plat Determinations:
Chairman Wilcenski: Dr. Mercier & Mattituck Park District - This proposed Lot Line
Change will transfer 0.08 acres from SCTM#1000-140-1-19.1 to SCTM#1000-140-1-21.
Lot 21 will increase from 0.16 acres to 0.24 acres and Lot 19.1 will decrease from 1.23
acres to 1.15 acres located in the R-40 Zoning District. The properties are located at
1045 & 1215 Love Lane, on the corner of Love Lane and County Road 48, Mattituck.
Pierce Rafferty: Mr. Chairman I offer the following resolution:
WHEREAS, this proposed Lot Line Change will transfer 0.08 acres from SCTM#1000-
140-1-19.1 to SCTM#1000-140-1-21. Lot 21 will increase from 0.16 acres to 0.24 acres
and Lot 19.1 will decrease from 1.23 acres to 1.15 acres located in the R-40 Zoning
District; and
WHEREAS, on June 22, 2015, a Lot Line Modification Application was submitted; and
WHEREAS, on July 6, 2015, at their Work Session, the Planning Board reviewed the
application and found it incomplete with items to be submitted; and
WHEREAS, on July 10, 2015, the agent submitted the items requested by the Planning
Board at their July 6, 2015 Work Session and as such the Board set the public hearing
for the August 3, 2015 Public Meeting; and
WHEREAS, on August 3, 2015, the Planning Board held and closed the public hearing;
and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Town Code §240-56,
Waivers of Certain Provisions, may waive certain elements of the subdivision review if
in its judgment they are not requisite in the interest of the public health, safety and
general welfare. After reviewing the information submitted for this application, the
Planning Board has determined that it is eligible for a waiver of the Environmental
Resources Site Analysis Plan (ERSAP), the Primary and Secondary Conservation Area
Plan, the public hearing, and the Sketch Plan and Preliminary. Plat steps of the
subdivision process for the following reasons:
1. No new lots are being created;
Southold Town Planning Board Page 13 August 31, 2015
2. No changes will occur as a result of this Lot Line Change that would adversely
affect the character of the neighborhood; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board performed an uncoordinated review of this Unlisted
Action pursuant to 6 NYCRR Part 617, Section 617.7 of the State Environmental Quality
Review Act (SEQRA); and
WHEREAS, pursuant to the Lot Line Modification Policy set by the Planning Board in
February 2011, this application is eligible for a decision from the Planning Board prior to
receiving approval by the Suffolk County Department of Health Services (SCDHS) as it
meets the following criterion set forth in that policy:
• where no new development potential will be created in the parcel to which the
land is transferred; and
WHEREAS, on August 31, 2015, at their Work Session, the Planning Board determined
that the proposed action meets all the necessary requirements of Town Code §240-57
for a Lot Line Modification; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to SEQRA, hereby
makes a determination of non-significance for the proposed Lot Line Modification and
grants a Negative Declaration.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Pierce, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Pierce Rafferty: And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby waives the requirements of
Town Code §240 to submit the ERSAP, Primary and Secondary Conservation Plans,
Sketch Plan and Preliminary Plat steps.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Pierce, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 14 August 31, 2015
Pierce Rafferty: And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby waives the requirement for
SCDHS approval prior to Planning Board approval of this Lot Line Modification.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Pierce, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Pierce Rafferty: And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grants Final Approval on the
maps entitled "Boundary Line Alteration Situate: Mattituck", prepared by John C. Ehlers,
Land Surveyor, dated April 30, 2015 and last revised July 8, 2015, and authorizes the
Chairman to endorse the map.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Pierce, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Set Preliminary Plat Hearings:
Chairman Wilcenski: Beninati Standard Subdivision - This proposal is for a
Standard Subdivision of a 2.01 acre parcel where in 1999 the Zoning Board of Appeals
granted an Area Variance to allow for this parcel to be subdivided into two lots where
Lot 1 equals 0.71 acres and Lot 2 equals 1.30 acres, located in the RO Zoning District.
The property is located at 3070 Peconic Lane, on the east side of Peconic Lane and on
the south side of CR 48, in Peconic. SCTM#1000-74-3-15
James H. Rich Ill: Mr. Chairman I offer the following
WHEREAS, this proposal is for a Standard Subdivision of a 2.01 acre parcel where in
1999 the Zoning Board of Appeals granted an Area Variance to allow for this parcel to
be subdivided into two lots where Lot 1 equals 0.71 acres and Lot 2 equals 1.30 acres,
located in the RO Zoning District; and
Southold Town Planning Board Page 15 August 31, 2015
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to State Environmental
Quality Review Act (SEQRA) 6 NYCRR, Part 617, has determined that the proposed
action is an Unlisted Action as it does not meet any of the thresholds of a Type I Action,
nor does it meet any of the criteria on the Type II list of actions; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board has determined that this proposed
action is an Unlisted Action under SEQRA as described above.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Jim, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
•
Ayes.
Motion carries.
James H. Rich Ill: And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board sets Monday, October 5, 2015 at
6:01 p.m. for a Preliminary Plat Public Hearing upon the map entitled " Preliminary
Subdivision Map for the Property of Lee & Marie Beninati ", prepared by John Metzger,
dated December 15, 2008 and last revised September 18, 2014.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Jim, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Chairman Wilcenski: Noone Standard Subdivision - This proposal is for a 2-lot
Standard Subdivision of a 21,000 sq. ft. parcel where Lot 1 = 10,501 sq. ft. and Lot 2 =
10,500 sq. ft. in the R-40 & B Zoning Districts. The property is located at 210 Sigsbee
Road, on the west side of Sigsbee Road, 164' south of Main Road, Mattituck.
SCTM#1000-143-1-4.1
Martin Sidor:
WHEREAS, this proposal is for a 2-lot Standard Subdivision of a 21,000 sq. ft. parcel
where Lot 1 = 10,501 sq. ft. and Lot 2 = 10,500 sq. ft. in the R-40 & B Zoning Districts;
and
Southold Town Planning Board Page 16 August 31, 2015
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to State Environmental
Quality Review Act (SEQRA) 6 NYCRR, Part 617, has determined that the proposed
action is an Unlisted Action as it does not meet any of the thresholds of a Type I Action,
nor does it meet any of the criteria on the Type II list of actions; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board has determined that this proposed
action is an Unlisted Action under SEQRA as described above.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Martin, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Martin Sidor: And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board sets Monday, October 5, 2015 at
6:02 p.m. for a Preliminary Plat Public Hearing upon the map entitled "Standard
Subdivision Preliminary Plan prepared for Margaret A. & Thomas E. Noone", prepared
by Nathan Taft Corwin III, Land Surveyor, dated March 27, 2009 and last revised
December 2, 2014. .
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Martin, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Chairman Wilcenski: Martz Standard Subdivision - This proposal is for a Standard
Subdivision of a 1.62 acre parcel into two lots where proposed Lot 1 equals 0.71 acres
and proposed Lot 2 equals 0.92 acres, located in the R-40 Zoning District. The Zoning
Board of Appeals granted an Area Variance to allow for Lot 1 to be less than 40,000 sq.
ft. The property is located at 555 Broadwaters Road, approximately 80 feet west of
Wunneweta Road, Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-104-12-6.1
William Cremers:
WHEREAS, this proposal is for a Standard Subdivision of a 1.62 acre parcel into two
lots where proposed Lot 1 equals 0.71 acres and proposed Lot 2 equals 0.92 acres,
Southold Town Planning Board Page 17 August 31, 2015
located in the R-40 Zoning District. The Zoning Board of Appeals granted an Area
Variance to allow for Lot 1 to be less than 40,000 sq. ft.; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to State Environmental
Quality Review Act (SEQRA) 6 NYCRR, Part 617, has determined that the proposed
action is an Unlisted Action as it does not meet any of the thresholds of a Type I Action,
nor does it meet any of the criteria on the Type II list of actions; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board has determined that this proposed
action is an Unlisted Action under SEQRA as described above.
Martin Sidor: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Bill, seconded by Martin. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
William Cremers: And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board sets Monday, October 5, 2015 at
6:03 p.m. for a Preliminary Plat Public Hearing upon the map entitled "Preliminary
Land Division at Broadwaters", prepared by Kenneth M. Woychuk, Land Surveying,
dated April 30, 2007.
Martin Sidor: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Bill, seconded by Martin. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
SITE PLANS
Determinations:
Chairman Wilcenski: Grace and Grit- This Site Plan Application is for the proposed
conversion of an existing 1,021 sq. ft. retail store to a six (6) seat restaurant and two (2)
parking spaces on 0.13 acres in the Hamlet Business Zoning District. The property is
located at 55750 Route 25, ±64' n/e/o Hobart Road & NYS Rt. 25, Southold.
SCTM#1000-62-3-8
Southold Town Planning Board Page 18 August 31, 2015
WHEREAS, this Site Plan Application is for the proposed conversion of an existing
1,021 sq. ft. retail store to a six (6) seat restaurant and two (2) parking spaces on 0.13
acres in the Hamlet Business Zoning District, Southold; and
WHEREAS, on May 13, 2015, Melissa Butler, agent, submitted a Site Plan Application
for review; and
WHEREAS, on June 1, 2015, the Planning Board formally accepted the application as
complete for review; and
WHEREAS, on June 1, 2015, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to State
Environmental Quality Review (SEQR) 6 NYCRR, Part 617.5 (c) (3), determined that
the proposed action is a Type II Action as it falls within the following description for 6
NYCRR, Part 617.5 (c) (7) "construction or expansion of a primary or
accessory/appurtenant, non-residential structure or facility involving less than 4,000
square feet of gross floor area and not involving a change in zoning or a Use Variance
and consistent with local land use controls, but not radio communication or microwave
transmission facilities." The proposed Site Plan is for primarily interior renovations and
no expansion of the footprint, therefore, not subject to SEQRA review; and
WHEREAS, on June 3, 2015, the Planning Board, pursuant to Southold Town Code
§280-131 C., distributed the application to the required agencies for their comments;
and
WHEREAS, the proposed action is exempt from Suffolk County Planning Commission
review because the proposed action is less than 5,000 sq. ft. of renovated floor area;
and
WHEREAS, on June 12, 2015, the Southold Town Fire Inspector reviewed and
determined that there was adequate fire protection and emergency access for the site;
and
WHEREAS, on June 15, 2015, the Southold Fire District determined there was
adequate fire protection for the site; and
WHEREAS, on June 16, 2015, the Town of Southold LWRP Coordinator reviewed the
above-referenced project and has determined the proposed project to be consistent with
Southold Town LWRP policies; and
WHEREAS, on June 16, 2015, the Southold Town Engineer reviewed the above-
referenced application and determined that the proposed drainage meets the minimum
requirements of Chapter 236 for Storm Water Management; and
WHEREAS, on June 23, 2015, the Planning Board granted permission for the applicant
to commence interior work to the building necessary to opening the proposed kitchen in
Southold Town Planning Board Page 19 August 31, 2015
order to support an existing catering business prior to Site Plan Approval. The catering
business operates off site and no public is permitted on site until Site Plan Approval has
been received; and
WHEREAS, on July 6, 2015, a public hearing was held and closed; and
WHEREAS, at their Work Session held on August 17, 2015, the Southold Town
Planning Board required revisions to the proposed Site Plan; and
WHEREAS, on August 21, 2015, the Southold Town Chief Building Inspector reviewed
and certified the proposed restaurant as a permitted use in the HB Zoning District; and
WHEREAS, on August 25, 2015, the Suffolk County Department of Health Services
(SCDHS) granted Approval Reference #C10-15-0004 for "take-out restaurant (max 16
seats)" at 153 gallons per day; and
WHEREAS, on August 26, 2015, the agent to the applicant, Melissa Butler, submitted a
revised Site Plan that included specific requirements of the Planning Board; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Southold Town Code
§280-131 B (5), has the discretion to vary or waive the parking requirements for Site
Plan Applications where doing so would not have a detrimental effect on the public
health, safety or general welfare, and will not have the effect of nullifying the intent and
provision of the Site Plan Requirements chapter of the Town Code. The Planning Board
has found that this application is eligible for a waiver of a portion of the parking
requirements because of the location of the subject parcel within the Hamlet Business
District where municipal parking facilities (shoulder parking) within 300 feet of the
proposed use will adequately serve the proposed use; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board has found that, pursuant to §280-129(C)(1), the
proposed Site Plan requires the planting of a street tree, but that a suitable location for
said street tree is impracticable. Due to existing paving on site, the Applicant is unable
to plant the required street tree and has agreed to donate the value of one (1) tree to
the established Tree Fund pursuant to §280-129(C)(1) of the Town Code and will be
enforced as a condition of Site Plan Approval. (See Town of Southold Planning Board
letter dated August 20, 2015); and
WHEREAS, on August 31, 2015, the Southold Town Planning Board determined that all
applicable requirements of the Site Plan Regulations, Article XXIV, §280 — Site Plan
Approval of the Town of Southold, have been met; therefore be it
Pierce Rafferty: Mr. Chairman I offer the following resolutions
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby waives a portion of the
parking requirements as noted above.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 110 August 31, 2015
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Pierce, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Pierce Rafferty: And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board permits the Applicant to pay a
sum of money in lieu of requiring the planting of one (1) street tree as noted above.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Pierce, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Pierce Rafferty: And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board has determined that this proposed
action is consistent with the policies of the Town of Southold Local Waterfront
Revitalization Program.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Pierce, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Pierce Rafferty: And be it further
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approves the Site Plan with one
(1) condition entitled "Grace and Grit", prepared by Jeffrey T. Butler, PE, on May 5,
2015, last revised August 24, 2015, and authorizes the Chairman to endorse the Site
Plan including the following two (2) plans:
1. Page 1 of 2
Southold Town Planning Board Page I 11 August 31, 2015
2. Page 2 of 2
Condition:
The Applicant shall donate the value of one (1) tree to the established Tree Fund
pursuant to §280-129(C)(1) of the Town Code. The suggested option is in lieu of
planting on the subject parcel due to existing conditions. (See Town of Southold
Planning Board letter dated August 20, 2015).
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Pierce, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
That ends our resolutions, and we will go to the public hearing section of tonight's public
meeting.
*************************
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chairman Wilcenski: The first public hearing is ADF Ventures and I am recusing
myself from this application, as I do business with one of the principals, Vice-Chairman
Jim Rich will take over.
James H. Rich III: 6:01 p.m. -ADF Ventures: This Site Plan is for an electrical
contractor's yard and proposed construction of a 64' x 36' (2,304 sq. ft.) building for
storage and bathroom with four parking stalls on 0.22 acres in the Light Industrial
Zoning District. The property is located at 620 Corwin Street, on the s/e corner of
Seventh Street & Corwin Street, Greenport. SCTM#1000-48-2-44.2
Before we start this hearing I will ask Bill Kelly if he is here to speak. I will also mention
that everybody is to address to the Planning Board not each other, and we also
received numerous emails and letters on this, all of which have been read and recorded
in the record. Thank you, please sign your name legibly and state it for the record.
Bill Kelly: Bill Kelly, authorized agent for the owner. I am simply here to respond to any
questions that the Board may have.
James H. Rich Ill: Thank you, anybody from the public wish to address the Board on
this issue?
Eric Bressler: Yes, Mr. Vice-Chairman. My name is Eric Bressler, Wickham, Bressler
& Geasa on the Main Road in Mattituck NY. We are the attorneys for Michael Greene
Southold Town Planning Board Page 112 August 31, 2015
and Susan Smith that live in the area of this proposed project. We are here this
afternoon to offer comments to the Board concerning the proposed Site-Plan. We wrote
a letter which I will hand up. This letter memorializes in writing many of the salient
points, which we believe create at a very minimum, difficulty with respect to this
particular project. There are three issues that I'd like to speak to this evening. Two of
which are procedural and one of which is substantive. The two procedural issues
involve the interplay between this Board and the Zoning Board of Appeals and the
SEQR process. The substantive issues speak to the actual substance of the Site
Planning process, and I'll briefly touch on each of these three areas. We understand
that in connection with this particular application that there are variances that have been
requested from the Zoning Board of Appeals, substantial variances. My further
understanding that this proceeding in front of your Board is moving forward somewhat in
parallel, we don't believe that this parallel track should continue any further than this
point. The reason being, there is a Site Plan proposal before this Board, whether that
Site Plan proposal in terms of the size, location and shape of the proposed structure is
what the Zoning Board of Appeals is eventually going to approve is not before this
Board. Since that's not before this Board, the planning issues that are before the Board
can necessarily only be discussed in the broadest of brush strokes and cannot be
applied to this particular parcel because we don't yet know where we're going with this.
The second issue involves SEQR, we understand that this Board, and properly so, has
made a determination that this is an unlisted action, and that's fine and that the first
step, but having said that there are further SEQR issues and determinations that need
to be made. We think that the Board, as lead agency, ought to undertake that job and
determine whether or not there is going to be further investigation and clarification,
coordination with the Zoning Board needed to address the substantive issues that are
presented by this particular application. That also militates in favor of, I'll get to the end
and come back to it again, the hearing ought to be kept open because you don't know
what you're going to get from the Zoning Board and you haven't yet fully addressed the
SEQR issues, which I'm going to touch on briefly after a description of what we've got.
Looking over there at the slide, you can see that what we have is a very small parcel in
the LI zone. I'd like to refer to it as vestigial, it's surrounded by lots of residential real
property. How it got to where it is, is really not before the Board, buts it's efficient to
note that it's standing out there, pretty much by itself and it is really, really small. In fact
without variances of roughly 90% and 93%, as requested, you're not going to get a
building on that. Now of course that leads to a number of SEQR issues, it leads to the
SEQR issues in terms of tearing down that woods, which the applicant says that it's
going to do in the middle of a residential area. It raises issues as to traffic, coming and
going in this residential area. My review of the file reveals that the Board really doesn't
know what exactly is going to go on there in terms of how many people, how you're
going to do a parking computation, trucks inside, the file reflects trucks outside. SO from
a SEQR point of view, you have those issues and I know that some of the other
speakers are going to address that briefly, in terms of traffic flow, noise, safety and
other similar aspects. The long and short of it is the lot is grossly undersized and what's
going to happen is there's going to be, if there are approvals, the building is going to be
stuffed into this lot. Now in terms of the substantive aspects I touch briefly on parking,
the plan shows three conventional spaces and one handicap space. Of course that
Southold Town Planning Board Page 113 August 31, 2015
really doesn't comport much with what the code has to say, I looked at the computation,
the computation was arrived at by declaring this entire thing a warehouse instead of an
electrical contractors yard, and you can't do that. The addition is just wrong, and of
course if you do the addition and you find out how many employees are there etcetera,
then you've got the further question, where is that parking going to be, how's it going to
be arranged, parking space I think #3 looks like it's almost impossible to get in and out
of. Access to the public highway for the trucks that are proposed to be parked in this
structure looks difficult at best. So without those issues being addressed, we don't think
that the Site Plan approval is proper. Now of course hand in hand with parking goes
landscaping and the lot clearing, again there's no way that this lot can be properly
landscaped as proposed without substantial deviation from the code, the buffers are not
there. I'm not going to belabor the Board with the numbers, they're in my letter and the
staff is aware of it, it's been written up, I'm sure the Board is aware of it. So from that
point of view there are Site Plan problems, the noise and the traffic and the safety I
already touched on. I do want to mention that this does look like, from some of the
submissions to the Board, this does look like it can very well be a 24-7 operation with
trucks coming and going when there is a need or a desire for them to come and go. It's
not Monday through Friday, they were spotted early on a Sunday morning and I dare
say at other times you're going to have traffic coming and going. Now touching briefly
on lighting, the problem with the lighting is that when you take a building and you build it
like its proposed, on a very small lot, the setbacks interplay with the lighting and
because the lighting isn't where it's supposed to be, setback from the roadway, that's
presenting additional problems. That means that the lighting you usually use you can't
use here and we think there's going to be a problem, in fact we know there's going to be
a problem with all of Corwin Street lighted up and around the corner on the other
residential side. The last factor I want to touch on, since I know you got a big one after
this one, the last issue I want to touch on is the community character. This is just so out
of character with the community, it is vestigial but it just doesn't fit. And while that might
not strictly be an issue for this Board it's something that this Board has to consider if as
and when the Zoning Board grants some relief this Board has to consider, because it's
in the code, how this is going to work and we don't think that this thing works. So I'd
invite you to read the submission, I'd invite you to read the correspondence, I know you
have already from all the people in the neighborhood and I would further invite you and
urge you to keep this public hearing open until we know what's going on with the Zoning
Board of Appeals so that you can deal intelligently with whatever setbacks you may get.
In the interim, based upon what we've seen so far we think that there ought to be further
investigation into the traffic issues and the other issues that are raised by this particular
application to satisfy SEQR, we think that there are environmental concerns that are
implicated here. I know you have a short form and at minimum you have got to have a
long form and you might want more than that when all the information comes in. In
short we ask you to keep this open, give us a chance to comment when the returns are
in from the Zoning Board and you've done your due diligence on SEQR. Thank you
very much.
James H. Rich III: Thank you Eric. Anybody else wish to address the Planning Board?
Please write your name and state your name.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 114 August 31, 2015
James Kennedy: My name is James Kennedy, I live at- my mailing address is 620
Corwin Street. So I have a little problem going on here with the Town of Southold and
the Suffolk County Clerk. So I just wanted to- I've been to the Zoning Board meetings,
I've been involved with the whole neighborhood, I've been involved with the plans as
they're sort of evolving for this project and consistently speaking in opposition to this
and that's why I am standing here in front of you today just to speak in opposition to
this. So I live right across from this and if I was standing on front door right now,
probably right there on that back wall is where the building would be. So it's extremely
out of character for what's happening in this neighborhood. I just witnessed him
working on weekends, he's consistently said that it's a Monday through Friday 7am to
5pm operation; you can't run a business that way when you're an electrical contractor.
I'm in the business I'm a project manager for an electrical construction company, we're
in a heavily industrialized area, that's where we run our business out of in Islandia.
can't imagine this happening in a residential neighborhood so I just wanted to present
those thoughts to you and hope that you'll consider that.
James H. Rich ID: Thank you.
Michael Greene: Hi, Michael Greene, I'm a neighbor of James and we live at 432
Seventh Street, my wife and I and my kids. Is it possible to zoom out on the plan of it,
so that we can see where Greenport School is and some of the other neighborhoods? I
just think it's important to recognize, can I use the laser? So the site is right here,
there's a whole neighborhood down here, we live there so we see the foot traffic and the
bike traffic. This neighborhood, in order to get to the school they come along Corwin
Street. There's probably nearly sixty houses, if you keep going south there's even
more, you don't even have to go south. There's about sixty residential properties down
here, there's 101 condominium properties over in Driftwood Cove. To get to the school
they don't go up to Ninth Street, because it's a busy intersection, it's near a very busy
intersection in fact, so what people typically do is they come along Corwin Street. If we
go outside of our door at any time of the day or evening chances are we'll see
somebody on a bike or walking along Corwin. They come up Seventh or they come up
Eighth, if they're going to access the school there is a cross walk right at the corner of
Seventh Street, it's the only crosswalk that goes over to the school. The other thing
people come across Corwin Street to do is continue on to the ferry, not only the ferry
we've got the jitney. As well as the jitney you've got everything else in the village. You
may come down in a car and zoom through in a minute and not see many people, but if
you're living there you see a lot. You see a lot of kids, you see kids on bikes, the first
kid that darts out in front of a commercial truck and gets hit, what are we going to do
about that? There is no getting that kid back. I'm very concerned about the traffic, I'm
very concerned that at Seventh Street, the intersection of Seventh and Corwin is
essentially where the drive entrance to this property is located. All the DOT regulations
that I've ever looked at have said that from any intersection, you need to locate curb
cuts anywhere from 30 to 50 feet away, you don't put them in the middle of an
intersection, it's dangerous. There are a lot of issues here, I think Eric touched on them,
but there are a lot of issues that need to be investigated and if I can, I'd like to hand in a
map. The first page highlights all the residential properties in yellow, so you'll see that
Southold Town Planning Board Page 115 August 31, 2015
this property is surrounded by hundreds, not just dozens, but well over a hundred and
fifty residential properties if you go in a three block radius counting Driftwood Cove. The
second page shows the traffic patterns of pedestrians and bikes coming up from the
various neighborhoods along Corwin to access the school and to'access the jitney, the
train station and the ferry. I just urge you to take a close look at what's happening in
that neighborhood before rendering any decisions. Thank you very much.
James H. Rich III: Thank you, anyone else? Ma'am, I would ask you please to address
the microphone, speak into it so we can record. Thank you.
Rosemary Gabriel: I will write my name down first, my name is Rosemary Gabriel I live
with my husband Patrick here at 431 Seventh Street. My porch is directly diagonally
facing this proposed lot. My concern was that if the Zoning Board should allow certain
variances and the building does go in that the amount of buffer doesn't seem to be
possible in order to maintain the street trees that are along Corwin. That is our view, I
know that it's a small two block street and we've got all the ferry traffic lined up on
Corwin and we have the railroad right behind this lot. This is our one little wooded
oasis, it's the only sweet spot at the end of this block and I know that trees do contribute
to the shade and to lowering the temperature of a block and of a neighborhood. It's
great for gobbling up the carbon from the cars that come by, and the thought of allowing
no setback or a very minor setback and chopping down that whole little triangle will be a
blight. It's very hard for us to be contending with the loss of Lewis Marine and what that
looks like, I have some pictures here of what Lewis Marine looks like now that they're
gone, and to make another blighted area right next to it, it makes you feel like you're
living in an industrial park, not a village neighborhood. Do you mind if I give you this
material?
James H. Rich III: That is fine, thank you.
Rosemary Gabriel: The pages will show what a mess Lewis Marine has made of that
street and this is just one more mess. I've been in the neighborhood 23 years and I'm
on the board of the Floyd Memorial Library, I'm the president of the board of the Friends
of Mitchell Park, I'm invested in the loveliness of our neighborhood and I would hate to
see it look like an industrial park full of concrete and asphalt and trucks. Thank you.
James H. Rich III: Thank you for your comments.
Susan Smith: Hello my name is Susan Smith and I live at 432 Seventh Street, abutting
the site. For us, this is a very ugly business, on the one hand we have applicant who
wants to extract profit from this slither of woodland and on the other hand we have a
quiet and responsible community that care very much about our neighbors and our
neighborhood. So I am not going to address all the many points but the one thing I
wanted to say is that we are very glad that the Planning Board have recommended that
there be a 30 foot buffer for the gardens and our neighbors on Sixth Street and we
would like you to respect the many neighbors who are on Corwin Street and Seventh
Street, who at the moment with the proposed building, have only this very minimal
Southold Town Planning Board Page 116 August 31, 2015
setback which is not going to give us a buffer at all from the noise, the lighting, the traffic
and potential pollution that's going to come with this completely inappropriate business
in our neighborhood. So we would ask you, if you will give us the same respect as the
neighbors on Sixth Street and also give us a 30 foot buffer which we would hope would
include all the trees that are there at present which we find very beautiful and also give
us a buffer from the railway and will in the future give us a buffer more importantly from
this outsized prefab building and its traffic and its noise. So we just hope you can give
us the same respect as the neighbors on Sixth Street, and help us to modify this
outsized development.
James H. Rich Ill: Thank you, anyone else wish to address the Planning Board on this
issue?
Jennifer Kennedy: Good evening ladies and gentlemen of the Board, my name is
Jennifer Kennedy, I live at 620 Corwin Street, directly across from the lot. I'm speaking
before you as the mother of three children who have frequent early morning and late
night fun on the dead end on Corwin Street, the only way into the proposed parking spot
for this building. In addition I am proud to say, I'm one of eight children, so we open up
our home to many siblings that come and bring their children as well. Aside from being
a mother I'm a registered nurse with over 20 years' experience in emergency medicine
and trauma. And this is a great safety issue, a big concern to this community with this
industrial equipment and heavy vehicles moving in and out. So I ask you to consider
that as we move forward, hopefully we don't move forward with this project, I'm
completely opposed and I know I speak for the community as well. Thank you.
James H. Rich Ill: Thank you, did you write your name down ma'am. Thank you very
much. Anyone else wish to address the Planning Board? Go ahead Bill, you have a
counter comment?
Bill Kelly: Yes, I just want to make a couple points. As far as lot coverage percentage
goes, if you have any questions for me, we are well under the lot coverage percentage
so it's not an over development of the property, 30% is allowed and we are at 24%. The
whole area of the neighborhood is a non-conforming from the standpoint of lot sizes and
even if you look at the GIS map you can see with the residential properties in the area,
from a standpoint of the code and setback requirements, none of those would actually
meet the requirements of the code. As far as, Lewis Marine exists there, so it's not like,
if you look at the size of Lewis Marine its clear on the map just to the south of the
railroad tracks is Costello Marine, we're right to the north of the tracks. Of course the
railroad tracks, it's our backyard. We meet the requirements of the buffer and we also
meet the requirements of the photo metrics plan, so I think some of the concerns, those
are some of the concerns that some of the people addressed and just wanted to make a
point that those issues have been addressed.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 117 August 31, 2015
James H. Rich Ill: Thank you, anybody else? Eric, do you want to say briefly?
Eric Bressler: Briefly as to one point that was raised, while it's certainly so looking at
the proposed Site Plan that lot coverage is not an issue, to say that therefore it's
completely compliant overstates the case. Lot coverage, setbacks and buffers all go
hand in hand, so therefore you can't point at one and say that three are covered. Thank
you.
James H. Rich Ill: Thank you, anyone else? We are going to leave the hearing open,
but adjourn it until we do hear the ZBA comments, that is a point that is very well taken,
thank you. At this point I'll turn the microphone back over to Chairman Wilcenski.
Chairman Wilcensi: Thank you Jim. We'll wait a few minutes to get everyone re-
settled. If you can please leave quietly, we want to try and move forward.
Chairman Wilcenski: 6:02 p.m. - The Heritage at Cutchoque 2015: This proposed
Residential Site Plan is for the development of 124 detached and attached dwellings
classified in three types: 48 "Type A" units (1,999 +/- sq. ft. livable area), 72 "Type B"
units (1,599 +/- sq. ft. livable area) and 4 "Type "C" units (1,999 +/- sq. ft. livable area).
In addition, there are proposed the following: a 6,188 sq. ft. community center with a
±1,125 sq. ft. outdoor swimming pool, one tennis court, 284 parking spaces of which
256 are associated with the individual dwelling units and 28 are associated with the
community center, and various other associated site improvements, on a vacant 46.17-
acre parcel in the Hamlet Density (HD) Zoning District. The property is located at 75
Schoolhouse Road, on the n/w corner of Griffing Street and School House Road,
approximately 1,079 feet n/o the Main Road, Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-102-1-33.3
Before we get started with public comments I just have a statement to make. This is a
preliminary public hearing on this Site Plan application as amended known and
submitted by the Heritage. The Town code requires a preliminary hearing for
Residential Site Plans. As the name indicates the hearing is an initial opportunity for the
applicant to present to the public and for the public to present comments on this
application. Please keep in mind that there will be a full public hearing on the
application and the revised Draft Environmental Impact Statement, also known as a
DEIS once the'DEIS is finished. The Board has retained the services of environmental
consultants who are reviewing the application as part of the required environmental
impact review and will be reporting to this Board shortly. The information provided to
the Board tonight will be considered as part of its environmental review and substantive
review of the application. A couple of other notes, this entire file is posted online and
updated daily. The DEIS will be posted online as soon as it's found to be adequate for
the public review. Also just as a note, if you go to the website www.southoldny.gov you
can be notified by either text message or email, if you log onto the notify me icon on the
town website on the main page, you can sign up by either email or text to get any
updated agendas posted for this application. At this time I'd like to turn it over to the
applicant's representative.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 118 August 31, 2015
John Wagner: Good evening Mr. Chairman and members of the Board. My name is
John Wagner, I'm an attorney with the law firm of Certilman, Balin, Adler & Hyman, of
100 Motor Parkway, Hauppauge, NY, here tonight representing the applicant. As an
initial matter, Mr. Chairman I have some green cards that we received back in response
to our mail notices. Would you like to have them handed up at this time?
Chairman Wilcenski: Yes please, thank you.
John Wagner: This is an amended Site Plan application that has been filed, it was filed
in conjunction with a proposed DEIS, Draft Environmental Impact Statement, for the
proposed development. It affects approximately 46 acres of property on the north side
of Schoolhouse Road at the intersection of Griffing Street. The zoning of the property is
Hamlet Density Residential, it has been zoned that since 1989. What we are essentially
proposing has been summarized by the Chairman before, just to reiterate we are
looking for 124 residential condominium units, we also are looking for certain amenities
which include a clubhouse, a pool and a tennis court. Some of the basic parameters of
our application are as follows: we are providing a total of 124 units as I said, the
breakdown of those units is two-fold. We have 72 units that will be a maximum of 1,599
square feet in area. We have 52 additional units, maximum of 1,999 square feet in
area, and those come in two flavors, there's three unit types all together, A, B and C.
Total livable floor area as defined in the Town Code is 219,076 square feet, we are
proposing an addition that these buildings be two stories and 35 feet of maximum
height, we are going to provide 50% open space on the property, our lot coverage is
going to be 16.92% where its 25% is allowed under applicable zoning. We are
proposing to meet the buffer and setback requirements of the code, which requires a 50
foot buffer from the property line and an additional 25 feet beyond that which gives you
a minimum setback of 75 feet, but in addition I should point out that with regard to
yardage requirements in the Town Code whereas a 35 foot front yard is required in this
particular district, we are proposing to have 305.7 feet, because the only frontage is on
Schoolhouse Road to the south and we are well off of that. We are also proposing a
rear yard of 75 feet, where only 35 feet is required by code. We are proposing side
yards minimum of 79.4 feet and both combined side yards of 180.9 feet, even though
only 15 and 30 are required under the code. Also of interest with respect to the actual
building setbacks that we're proposing we're contemplating a 101.5 foot building
setback from the westerly property line, this line, as you probably know, is the line of the
residential development that joins us on the west called Highland Road neighborhood,
well in excess of the side yard requirements, the 15 foot side yard requirement I
mentioned early and also in excess of the buffer and setback requirements of the code.
We are also proposing an 81.4 foot building setback from the northerly property line and
from the easterly property line 79.4 foot building setback. We've actually pulled in quite
substantially from all three of those dimensions, west, north and east. A total of 284
parking spaces are being proposed, and our systems have been designed, our sanitary
and wastewater systems have been designed to be fully compliant with the
requirements of the Suffolk County Department of Health Services. That's,the best I
can say at this point, I guess well open it up for public comment unless you have any
questions of me at this time.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 119 August 31, 2015
Chairman Wilcenski: Do any Board members or staff have any questions for Mr.
Wagner at this time? Not at this time, thank you. Again, before we start opening up the
floor to the public I just want to make a note, once you speak if you have spoken once,
you can speak again but give everyone else a chance before you come back up. At this
time anybody that would like to start please start on that podium there, please state your
name and write your name for the record. Carol asked me to mention that you make
sure you write it legibly.
Benia Schwartz: Hi Carol how you doing, it's Benja Schwartz. While the hamlet
density zone was probably enacted in 1989 this project began with a proposal in 1982.
Coincidentally the SEQR, the New York State SEQR handbook was first published in
1982, of course the SEQR law began much earlier in 1976 but I think we are still
learning how to apply the law. I think one of the things SEQR does is look at the forest
not just the individual trees, not how many parking spaces but the whole picture. So
this being the preliminary public hearing I still would like to just quickly run by the
purposes of public hearing under SEQR. Number 1, to look at the developers proposal,
gratefully we have the developer here to present that. Number 2, to look at the potential
impacts of that proposal, not necessarily the anticipated impacts but the potential
impacts. Number 3, to look at the alternatives. So just stepping back briefly to 1983, the
Southold Town Board at that time was lead agency for this, an application to change the
zone from Zone A to Zone M. Residential agricultural the initial zoning in Southold
Town which was quite, considered to be quite cutting edge at the time because it
combined the residential and agricultural. Interestingly this project is inserting a little bit
of high density suburbia in between an agricultural parcel and a suburban parcel. It
doesn't make sense as far as zoning principals go, you're supposed to have gradual
transitions, not abrupt. I appreciate the setback from the suburban neighborhood to the
west but to the east we have a farm and we are going to be looking at this as we drive
up and down the old Depot Road, no depot anymore but-Anyway, initially 32-33 years
ago there was a very brief Short Environmental Assessment Form submitted by the
applicant at that time with answers to 15 questions all being the same answer, no. I'll
just read one question, the first question was "Will the project result in a large physical
change to the project site, or physically alter more than 10 acres of land?" No. At that
time it was not 46 some odd acres, 45-46 acres, there were another 10-15 acres on
Griffing Avenue, so while the unit count was higher I think the unit size was smaller and
the density might have been less. Moving up to 2007, in connection with the current
slate of applications, or current application a Full Environmental Assessment Form was
submitted at that time, among other things it presents the idea that a sewage treatment
plant is proposed to handle the sanitary wastewater generated by the development.
Now going through the Planning Board file today, I was struck by the continuous
repletion in the letters from the developer's representatives, every letter began with
pursuant to the Stipulation of Settlement in 2009. Now as Supervisor Russell said that
was not a settlement, the name Stipulation of Settlement, I call it a Stipulation of
Adjournment and Contemplation of Settlement but I don't see any hope really for
settlement as long as the developer is still insisting on the building a separate
community of luxury houses adjacent to the hamlet center of Cutchogue. Now I wasn't
born here, I first came here 50 years ago, so I'm recently introduced to here but I've
Southold Town Planning Board Page I 20 August 31, 2015
been here, I was here at least 20 years prior to this thing. Anyway getting back to the
Environmental Assessment Form from 2007, I was informed by the Planning
Department today that that the current application is based on that 2007 Environmental
Assessment Form. That form that was completed in 2007 was a filling in a form that
was designed in 1978, that was changed in 2012, and the updated form is much
improved and has all kinds of, you can go online and input a little information and the
online intelligence starts to fill out information in the form for you, it does some of the
work for you. I reviewed the Stipulation of Adjournment and Contemplation of
Settlement and while it does talk about the developer submitting a new Draft
Environmental Impact Statement it also refers to a whole SEQR process happening, so
you know SEQR is a series of steps and while some steps are optional an
Environmental Assessment Form is not and I strongly urge this Board to go back and
require an Environmental Assessment Form before considering any Draft
Environmental Impact Statement, which should be based on the Environmental
Assessment Form, I don't think we should be carrying over. Down in Mattituck we have
two proposals now, the one proposal just mentions 20 acres, the developers proposing
preserving 17 of those acres. This application its discussed and said many times, you
know there's a lot of things being said in this application like they're calling it "The
Heritage", I call it "The Inheritance" but what is being done its squandering, or they're
looking to profit and make as much money as they can on the property that they
inherited and at the same time they're squandering the heritage of our community. So
getting back to the outline and trying to get, in the interest of being brief, the
Environmental Assessment Form should be required. The so called, same as they call
this "The Heritage" and it's just like one of these farm view developments which is built
where the farm used to be, so there's no farm to view anymore, there'll be no heritage if
this is developed as proposed. There's no open space as far as I understand open
space. The open space that they're talking about in this proposal is lined with plastic.
These plastic lined ponds would prevent the infiltration of the precipitation and the
rainwater into the aquifer. Now that computerized Environmental Assessment Form
tells you that we are part of a sole source aquifer. What it doesn't tell you is that we
have three major portions of that aquifer in Southold Town and the portion underneath
this property is almost in the epicenter of the largest portion of the sole source aquifer
that goes from Mattituck Inlet to Hashamomuck Pond. Then there's a separation with
Town beach and Hashamomuck Pond almost splitting the North Fork in two and there's
another section that goes out to Orient, the causeway, and then from there out to
Orient. Not too far from where this development is proposed is major pumping station
of the Suffolk County Water Authority. Not only would the plastic lined ponds prevent
recharge they would also contribute to evaporation of the fresh water and at this time as
far as I know the plans are to use that in an emergency only. So that's one of the
potential impacts, one of the alternatives would be to instead of those ponds to have
rain gardens, which could help purify the air as well as the water and recharge our
aquifers. Another interesting alternative would be to put green roofs, we don't even
have any solar panels in these plans, these plans are like 30 years old and they haven't
updated them, the development doesn't relate to the environment, the houses are
facing every which way, each one looks the same, it's horrible, I'm sorry. I've got more
to say but I'll say it another time, I'll let some other people have a chance I just, I don't
Southold Town Planning Board Page 121 August 31, 2015
want to make it seem I'm blaming the developer for all of this, I've tried to get involved
but most of the time the Town doesn't want to hear what I have to say, anyway it's not
personal. One thing, the last point as part of this proposal it suggested that pursuant to
the Town laws that require a developer to include some affordable housing, instead of
including affordable housing the developers choosing to pay a fee in lieu of that.
Instead of providing some recreation for the parks, recreationaries(?) for the community
they're paying, they're proposing to pay 2 million dollars. It seems like a lot of money
but then you start adding up all the money they are going to make, but my point is that
the Planning Board should be talking to, maybe the Land Preservation department or
whoever and figure out what we can do with that money, what that money would go
towards and include that review and analysis as part of the SEQR. It won't be done in
part of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement by the developer, because the
developer is not going to tell the Town what to do with that money. There are certain
laws that control what that money would do, would be done with, but really in this case,
what will be. I think it's incumbent on the Planning Board and the Town to come up with
some alternatives not just to expect the developer, although the developer did propose
in one of the previous incarnations of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement
possible public acquisition of all or some of this property if I remember. Thank you very
much.
Chairman Wilcenski: Did you write your name? Just as a note, I believe in the latest
plans all the ponds have been removed, so just as a note. You can go out there and
look at the map, there are no ponds. Thank you, we need to keep this moving on.
Anybody else want to speak, please step to one of the podiums, state your name, write
your name for the record. Yes sir-
Mike Nickich: Good evening, my name is Mike Nickich I live in Fairway Farms in
Cutchogue. I just have a brief statement and then I'll sit down. I recognize this is a very
difficult project from the get go, so I wanted to say to the Board and to the principals,
thank you. I extend my appreciation to the Town of Southold and to Mr. Jeffrey Rimland
and his team for working together towards realizing the Heritage project. It is my
opinion that the project is needed and a desired solution for many residents who'd love
to simplify their lives and remain on the North Fork. As many suggestions have already
modified this permitted plan, I am sure interested parties will continue to offer ideas on
how best to implement the successful completion of the Heritage at Cutchogue. I
encourage all sides to remain civil, to keep an open mind to all possibilities. Often the
things we are fearful of tend not to exist as the actual implementation takes place.
Again I wish to thank all persons involved and believe this project will be a positive
contribution to Cutchogue.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anyone else? Yes, step up and please write your
name and state your name. Direct all your comments to the Board. Thank you.
Tom Wacker: Hi, I'm Tom Wacker, my family has several properties in Cutchogue, five
of which are essentially downstream of the sewage flow of this project. I think there are
a lot of reasons why this really doesn't belong in Cutchogue, but the Achilles heel of this
Southold Town Planning Board Page 122 August 31, 2015
thing it seems to me is the lack of sewage treatment. So I have a pre-prepared
statement. In light of the warnings at every level of government about the dangers
excessive nitrogen load impose to our groundwaters, in particularly to Wickham Creek
and West Creek, it's astounding to me that we're considering this proposal which
includes no plan for nitrogen abatement. I could probably site sources all night
highlighting the dangers from excessive nitrogen but I'll site this one. The 2014 Suffolk
County Comprehensive Water Resources Management Plan concludes "Suffolk
County's water is at a tipping point, we face an alarming trend in the quality of the water
our families drink, compounded by an impairment of the bodies of water in which our
families play." Further quoting, "This is the only place in the world with that large a
density in this tight space where the waste is going into a sole source aquifer
immediately beneath us that we're drinking and this is a big problem." Now when they
say the only place in'the world they're referring to Long Island in general. To get more
specific I have a copy of a letter from Robert Farmer, former, he may even still be there
I'm not sure, Supervisory health Engineer in the Suffolk County Bureau of Drinking
Water, dated July 24, 2007 wherein he states, "Where a large volume of sewage flow is
proposed, such as Heritage at Cutchogue, a separate review is performed by the
Suffolk County Department of Health to evaluate the potential effects on both private
and public water supply wells in the areas downgrading it from the proposed sewage.
As this project moves forward it may be appropriate to consider the streets down
gradient of the project as candidates for public water." Keep in mind that this letter is
from the Bureau of Drinking Water and as such only addresses the dangers to the
drinking water. We all know that the surface waters are far more vulnerable to nitrogen
pollution, the parts per million are much lower will damage the surface waters and give
you big algae blooms compared to what we can drink in our tap water. Thus, I don't
think anyone can claim to be unaware of the danger this project in its current form
poses to the drinking water and surface waters in Cutchogue. I fear that we are leaving
the town vulnerable to further litigation if we don't heed clear warning to safeguard the
health of our citizens and our natural resources. Thank you for your time.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you very much Mr. Wacker. Anybody else, please raise
your hand and I'll point you to the podium. Yes sir. Again this is a preliminary hearing,
you'll have a second bite at the apple when the time comes, but you're more than
welcome to speak your mind.
Patrick Schutte: Good evening Board, my name is Patrick Shutte and I reside in
Southold and I might be a minority here tonight and I might not be. I don't feel this is
going to be a detriment to our community, I feel this is something that is a growing trend
and it's going to be needed more in our community and communities around the country
as we have a rising aging population. This property is zoned for this, when zoning was
created this property is zoned for what the applicant is proposing here tonight. I come
to you from a different perspective, maybe not different but, until recently I was a 9 year
Planning Board member in a community not far from here so I know what you're
charged with and I know what you're up against here. There's quite a bit of balance,
you have SEQR, you have to balance the needs of the neighbors, the safety, the traffic
but you also have to balance the rights of the applicant to develop and use his property.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 123 August 31, 2015
As someone who sat on one of these boards for a long time that weighed very heavy on
me because you didn't hear much about that. I'm not here lobbying for that but
applicants have rights to use this property, they may be the developer, the big bad bear
in the room but he's asking for what is zoned for and what is permitted for, he's not
asking for zoning relief and setback relief so I would say in closing, please this is a long
slow process just make sure it's done tastefully, tactfully, and I'm sure the applicant will
work with the community to make this a good project for all. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you very much for your comments, very well said.
Anybody else? This podium is open.
Steve Tettleback: My name is Steve Tettleback from Cutchogue. So this project has
been in the works for decades as Benja told us. By the way the deal that was struck 30
years ago was done at about 11:59 on a 24 hour clock, and there's a lot of issues with
that but that's water over the dam apparently. You know I am really struck by what I am
reading in the paper last week, this was last week's paper, The Suffolk Times, a
summary of the Southold 2020 Comprehensive Plan for the hamlet and so we read
further and Heather Lanza summarizes the Land Use Chapter and list of variety of goals
including prevention of over building and retail sprawl that is similar to what we see on
Route 58 in Riverhead.
Chairman Wilcenski: Excuse me sir, direct your comments to the Board please.
Steve Tettleback: I'm sorry, I'm also addressing the audience as well so I want to make
sure everyone can hear me. So I'm just struck by this dichotomy, this project is super
high density and in the Towns plan, the 2020 plan to prevent over development. There
may be people in this room that think, maybe you're opposed to this, maybe you're not
sure, maybe you don't think this is going to affect you at all, but its going to affect
everybody in Southold Town, there's no question about it. I mean nitrogen was brought
up by Tom Wacker affecting our bays, affecting our shell fishing, affecting water quality,
increased algae blooms, traffic, air quality, on and on and on. So what we're faced with
here.is a choice, whether we want to just let this happen or whether we want to try and
do something about it and to try, if we cannot stop this at least try to make this as least
environmentally impactful as possible. This development will add about 10% instantly
to the population of Cutchogue and this, it's just totally out of character for the hamlet of
Cutchogue and totally out of character for the North Fork and I just, I'm just shocked
that this is going forward, I really am. This is not Southold, this is Riverhead, this is
Brookhaven happening right now in your neighborhood, if you don't think it's going to
affect you, I don't believe that. I like to use the term of village invasion, that's really
what this is and this is going to change the whole character of Cutchogue and the North
Fork. I am going to talk a lot more in November about other particular issues but I just
want to lay this out there, if you're thinking that you live on the North Fork this is not
going to affect me, think again.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you for your comments. Anybody on this side, this
podium is open. Yes.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 124 August 31, 2015
Kelly Evers: My name is Kelly Evers, and I'm very concerned, I live on Schoolhouse
Road so I don't feel that the people of Schoolhouse Road, the concerns about traffic
here, we're mentioning 284 parking spaces which would indicate 284 cars and it seems
that on Griffing Avenue and Schoolhouse Road is the main entrance and exit for all of
those cars. As Mr. Wacker said the population will increase in Cutchogue 10% and
10% extra will be coming down my street, every day as my children, seated in the
audience, there is a catholic school right there, there is a school,ground where 9 months
out of the year kids are practicing, there is a campground where all summer long or 6
months out of the year people are walking their dogs and enjoying the community, and
the people of Schoolhouse Road are really going to take the brunt of this. It seems an
unfair burden to put on this small community, and likewise everyone is going to feel it.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you for your comments, yes sir.
Kevin McAllister: Good evening members of the Planning Board, my name is Kevin
McAllister, I serve in the role as director of Defend H2O, you might know my work as
your Peconic Bay keeper for 16 years. I don't reside in your community but I do care
about your waters. I would like to really focus on certainly the water issue and how I
think this project can do better, and must do better. I heard Suffolk County Health
. Department cited that the project will meet the code, the article 6, that's circa 1978, it's
- outdated. Principally what the article 78 dictates is separation from our septic leaching
rings to groundwater, separation from drinking wells, the inclusion of a septic tank for
the solids. 90% of the nitrogen load emanating from wastewater comes from our urine,
there's no discernable difference from a 1950 cesspool to a 1978 post Suffolk County
Health Department meets all the code, they're deficient in protecting our waters. You
also heard, cited the Comprehensive Waste Water Resources Management Plan that
was recently let from the County, that's been in the works for a number of years. They
looked at a substantial block of time, I believe it was 87 through 2005, a significant
increases in nitrogen in groundwater, you heard Mr. Tettleback talk about the
connection, obviously groundwater to surface waters, the nitrogen loadings that we're
seeing, the impaired waters. The 2008 study, which dates back, I believe, in early 70's,
this is interesting, for protection of drinking water at the time Suffolk County set a
standard of a minimum one acre zoning. That was ultimately to protect drinking water
at what is a national standard of 10 milligrams per liter. You also heard that's
considerably higher than what an estuarine system can assimilate and that number is
approximately a half apart. The Peconic Estuary program established, through Suffolk
County's great work, established a standard of 0.45 milligrams. The point I'm trying to
make, and you've heard this repeated, we've reached the tipping point, all roads have
led to our wastewater discharges, collectively, individually and collectively. Clearly the
zoning that we have in place is not doing the job, not only for protecting drinking water
as certainly the Suffolk County Water Authority lines are being laid all over, not to
mention now with certainty that that influence of waste water is adversely affecting
estuarine health. Back to the county code, for 10 years, and I guess I'll say this was my
epiphany in a waterbody named the Forge River, which is in Brookhaven Town, I will
say when the County and the State and others were saying, well all the nitrogen loads
Southold Town Planning Board Page 125 August 31, 2015
are from fertilizers and run off, and my epiphany was seeing the condition of that river
and recognizing that the density of housing was actually the greatest influence and sure
enough after the County sunk some monitoring wells the levels were through the roof
and I think from the Forge River gave rise as it featured prominently in the press to
paying attention and really immersing ourselves in analysis of what waste water
influences are on our drinking and surface waters. For the south shore virtually every
water body is classified as impaired, degraded or excessive nitrogen levels leading to
algae blooms, subsequently fish kills, a vicious cycle. We've obviously seen the
Flanders Bay and Peconic River this spring. That level has been assigned at
approximately 70% of the nitrogen loading emanating from waste water, some of the
work that's been done in the Peconic's is similar to that contribution and I'd argue that
when you get further up into the tributaries obviously the influence to residential
properties is more pronounced. We have with certainty the knowledge that our homes
are contributing to water quality degradation. I'm not here to speak of the quality of life
relative to this project, I'm certain with the accomplished staff that you have, you are
covering storm water and ground water recharge, hopefully paying attention to
sustainable landscape practices. But when I heard conventional waste water, that
means Suffolk County code, I sat there and bristled, and I realized this whole process is
a bit of groundhog day and I'm late to the dance if you will but with that said you have to
find a way to basically break the inertia that we are going to defer to Suffolk County's
archaea code that has allowed us to get into the position that we are in today and move
forward. This is a great opportunity, it's an opportunity for the developing team to step
up, commit to advanced waste water treatment. In 2011 the county approved 5
systems, 4 excuse me plus 1 that is chromeaglass and that's a colossal failure and
should be de-certified by Suffolk County. The 4 systems that have their approval, they
fall within the intermediate waste water flow category, which is 1,000 gallons to 15,000
gallons per day, and I surmise that this development based on, was it 124 units,
probably falls within that category thereby they could use one of these systems with
Suffolk County approval. So we really have to find a way to move them in that direction.
I've met with this Town Board, I believe back in April, I've met with the other Town
Boards, if Suffolk County is not going to move forward and reform their waste water
codes requiring advanced treatment systems, then the towns have to do so, as provided
by State statute and reinforced by case law, a Catskill township, municipalities
absolutely have the authority to have more stringent standards than Suffolk County or
New York State, that's absolute. Now the question is, do we have the political
wherewithal to do so, and that is a question for the Town Board, the Town Board is our
region in general, but I think with respect to negotiating this approval, please find a way
to move this project into advanced waste water treatment thereby at least alleviating. I
would argue the principal concern of this community is water quality degradation and
there's a golden opportunity to be out in front of it and be a good neighbor to Cutchogue •
and be a good neighbor to Peconic Bay. Thank you for your consideration of my
comments.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anybody else? Yes sir, you can step to the other
podium.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 126 August 31, 2015
Paul Romanelli: Good evening my name is Paul Romanelli, I'm a resident of
Cutchogue just west of the proposed Heritage project. I first want to thank the Board
and the previous Boards that worked on this project for listening and going back to the
developer and working with him. I also want to commend the developer to a certain
extent for coming back with various changes. This development was 1/4 acre lots
originally and we had far greater number of units in here, and I think the presentation
tonight by the developers attorney was brilliant in one fact that they kept well within all
the boundaries that they're required to do for setbacks and open space and everything
else and I think that is first off a terrific accomplishment but by the same token it makes
the whole project seem a lot more palatable. I think Mr. McAllister's and Mr. Wacker's
points about water are probably the biggest issue, and I think what I would like to do is I
would like to challenge the Board and the developer, who has come back to the table
many times already and has worked with the Town to see this project get started, to
really come up with the true solutions for water quality and run off. I realize that if you
make a 55 and over community the sanitation code requires smaller septic systems,
lower issues for water quality and that's a brilliant way to make this development go
through but at the same token I feel the development is needed to some extent but
really challenging, and I guess we'll see when the Environmental Impact Study comes
out, really challenging both the developer and the Board to come up with great solutions
for run off, because I think that is probably the biggest issue that any of us are going to
have with this Town in the long term. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, yes sir.
Bill Toedter: My name is Bill Toedter, I'm here representing the North Fork
Environmental Council of which I currently serve as president, the organization has
been serving the community since 1972. We're in the unique position unlike any other
groups where we look at those environmental concerns but also preserving way of life
on the North Fork. Many of our members have come to us and many of the residents
who aren't members come to us and say affordable housing is definitely a need for the
North Fork, however they also don't want to see the natural resources and the
environment they have lived out here and moved out here to enjoy to be degraded. In
looking at previous documents I see that the current number of units has been
decreased slightly from another reiteration, but in previous documents we're looking at
approximately 20,000 gallons of water brought in by Suffolk County Water Authority to
this property to serve the people's needs. We are also, according to their documents,
looking at approximately 30,000+ gallons a day to irrigate the property. That's over
50,000 gallons of water per day going into this system that is, one on previously
agricultural, adjoining agricultural land. Many of the tenants and many of the residents
around this property unfortunately have tested positive for temik in their water wells,
have tested positive for arsenic in their water wells. The developer has done a good job
of looking at different remediation, we would ask him to do a little bit more but they are
proposing taking topsoil and scraping out some of the contaminated and further burying
it within the side of the property. What all this leads to is that you have a property that
will have 50,000+ gallons a day draining down through the subsoil and affecting the flow
of the groundwater that we can't see, and it hasn't really been thoroughly studied and
changing the flow of these waters and affecting the neighbors in the area, and I would
Southold Town Planning Board Page 127 August 31, 2015
strongly urge the Board to look at that when you are looking at environmental impacts,
not only within the property but as Kevin so wonderfully said, his expertise and his
experience as far as I'm concerned beats none, how this flow as it flows down to
Wickham Creek carrying nitrogen now carrying other contaminants within the soil is
going to affect our ecosystems. it's something that developers and residents
unfortunately are going to have to look at and understand, is that if you want to live here
and you want to build here it's going to cost more to put in the proper septic and
nitrogen abatement systems that we need in order to keep our drinking water safe and
our ecology safe. It's something we cannot pass on for another year or two years or
three years it's something we need to start now and as a good neighbor I would hope
that the developer would look at this and go back, as Benja said, to that 2007 form
where they were willing to put in a community septic system a community waste water
treatment system, and not only to serve their community but to help take some of their
neighbors on some of the adjoining properties off of their septic systems and bring it into
theirs so we can really make some advancement on water quality here on the North
Fork. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anybody else just raise your hand if you'd like to
speak. Anybody else? Again this is a preliminary hearing and you will get more
opportunities to speak. We are taking written comments everyday now, but if you'd like
to speak tonight we're here.
Aaron Virgin: Good evening, my name is Aaron Virgin, I'm vice-president for Group for
the East End and we are a non-for-profit based here in Southold Town representing the
conservation and community planning interest of several thousand across the east end,
including several hundred here in Southold. I'm not going to go over a lot of what I had
planned to say because it's been well said, and I just want to, I'm actually just going to
end with my closing remarks. Basically I think this is a process, as Benja pointed out, it
could be the continuation of a long process or the beginning of a new one. I will say the
developer has come back and they put a few things in play that actually make sense,
the setbacks, however my organization wouldn't be in business if I sat there and said
the developer is doing great things. So here is what they're not doing and what you
need to do basically is continue this process, keep it open, I include Mark and the rest of
the planners on this. The development pressure which overran most of Long Island is
now squarely on our doorstep, and the SEQR process offers the Town and the public
the best chance to insure each new development is considered and designed with
awareness of both implications of town wide development, pressure and the future of
our fragile and priceless environment. The law only works if you decide to use it to the
fullest and if you do not conform to strict interpretation of the Town's land code. Please
let the SEQR process guide your decision and not the settlement decision or the
environment will surely be on the losing end, and we're here, the group is here to work
with you in any way we can and thank you for your time. _
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anybody else? Yes.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 128 August 31, 2015
Nancy Sawastynowicz: Good Evening, Nancy Sawatynowicz of Cutchogue, I wasn't
going to go to this way back when, but I have documentation about the spot zone
change on this project, there was a man, a couple of men before me speaking saying
that it was zoned this. Well I was there when that zone change took place and I have
documentation of contributions to the Town Board and when this was done in the back
rooms of Southold Town and it should have been re-zoned back to agricultural. It is a
disaster, it's going to change the whole North Fork and I like my well water, will they
make sure my well water won't be full of waste water? I really don't like this project it's
going to change the whole North Fork, it's disgusting, thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anybody else? Yes. You can step to either podium.
Miriam Lastoria: Yes my name is Miriam Lastoria, I lived in Southold Town for 28
years, I'm very happy living here. I want to speak to you as a private citizen, I trust the
Town Board will see that this project goes forward with appropriate sanitary measures
and water treatment measures that would make it wonderful for our town. There are
many of us who are baby boomers who have lived here and want to spend the rest of
our days here, but living in large homes with large properties to take care of makes it
difficult. We are all contributing to our town, to our churches, to our hospitals, to all of
the civic organizations and we can continue to be active and productive if we can still
live here in comfortable housing that we can maintain ourselves. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anybody else? Anybody else before Mr. Schwartz
gets up, yes we have a young lady over here.
Joyce Barry: My name is Joyce Barry and I have the farmhouse on Depot Lane that
was the original farmhouse to the farm that is now being farmed by Sang Lee, which if
you don't know is an organic farm. My concerns, the most concern that I have right now
is on the water, it's been presented. We have such a valuable resource with organic
land and there isn't a whole lot of it in Southold and I appreciate my neighbor and I
appreciate the food that they produce, healthy food for us. I'm really skeptical of
whether that's going to be preserved. I think it would be such a loss to the community.
It's not a matter of whether they should have this community there or not it's how it's
being built and if it's going to protect the water and the land around it. It shouldn't be a
shoulda, coulda, woulda situation ten years from now and that's what I'm concerned
about.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, your comments as well as everyone else's are being
recorded and it will be in the record. Anybody else would like to address the Planning
Board? Yes sir.
John Cato: Hi good evening, I don't want to kind of rehash everything that was said.
I'm sorry, John Cato, I'm glad to be here thank you for having us. I just really want to
kind of reiterate how unpopular this is and we really need to ask ourselves who is this
going to benefit and do we really want this as a community and we really need to take
responsible action moving forward. I just want to say that because a lot of people can't
Southold Town Planning Board Page 129 August 31, 2015
be here tonight because they're still working, they're with their family and again this is
just not wanted in the town it's not what we need. Thank you, thank you for your time.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anybody else? Before we get Mr. Benja back. Yes.
Linda Auriemma: Hello I'm Linda Auriemma, I live in a nearby community of New
Suffolk which we are all worried about this as well, we're close by we area round West
Creek. I'm here tonight really because of what Tom Wacker said and what Kevin
McAllister said and others, to put a conventional septic system in 124 units I think is
just, it would be shameful at this day and age and I hope that never happens, because
we are already having water problems. To just do that, we are doing 4 per acre if this
would go through the way it is. We have technology available and I think if we don't do
it we really messed up big time. I hope the Board at least considers everything they
heard tonight because it's critical I think for us. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you very much, everybody's input tonight obviously, I'll
reiterate again is being recorded and all the comments will be addressed. Anyone else
would like to address the Board? Yes sir.
Richard Jordan: Hi my name is Richard Jordan, I live in Cutchogue and I could just
echo everyone else's comments about concern for the sanitary system that is proposed,
I don't see how that could even protect anything. For people that aren't familiar with the
exact area like Wickham Creek, West Creek , East Creek, Mud Creek they're pristine
areas that have been identified for years and years as critical environmental areas to be
protected, to have applied a higher standard and they've been identified as locations for
many migratory birds, there are osprey nests there. It's not simply, not to say it simply,
that we're putting contaminated ground water that's going to seep into the Peconic,
between the Peconic, Greater Peconic, Little Peconic there are these critical wonderful
environmental areas that could be destroyed. Once it happens you can't undo it, and
like people have said the technology exists to mitigate the nitrogen so I would expect
that the developer would take advantage of that. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anybody else? Hands, yes sir.
John Minerva: My name is John Minerva, I'm from Cutchogue I've lived there for 52
years. I was involved in a lot of community affairs, I understand the problems that we're
having here to get this thing under control, I'm in favor of this, I think it's something that
we all need. I can't keep my home anymore and I will be very happy to move into
something like this. I feel that the people that spoke here today spoke with intelligence
on this problem that's facing the water situation and you should look into that and if we
can do this we should do it. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you very much, anyone else? Just raise your hand if
you'd like to come to the podium. Yes, I saw a hand.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 130 August 31, 2015
Ellen Paterno: My name is Ellen Paterno I live in Cutchogue, and I was involved going
to meetings earlier when these were discussed and I know there's been a lot of
changes and I won't go over what other people have said. I think the sewage issue is
just so significant that, like I said it's been handled already I just want to reiterate that
also and I think a lot of people feel that way. In terms of, I grew up in Suffolk County
and I lived in Islip, grew up in Islip was in the Great South Bay for a big part of my life
and my brother used to earn a living clamming there and so did a lot of his friends and
the clamming, because of the pollution in the bay, just it ended. Then my son, when we
lived in Smithtown, he used to lobster off of a lobster boat in the sound during his high
school years and the lobsters died off. Now the Peconic Bay is so seriously impacted
by the die off of fish from the nitrates and all the other pollutants run off, we have
fertilizers, people are using weed killers, there are a lot of things that impact our
waterways. Just to give you a quick example, I was in Riverhead for July 4th celebration
with my grandkids and as they're standing by the river they yelled, Grandma the fish are
jumping out of the water, so I went over there and there is this horrible looking sludge
moving right down the river towards where all the fish were jumping. This is a serious
problem and our tourism is built around our beautiful environment, not just the wineries
but about our beautiful environment, about our waterways. I have friends that are afraid
to let their kids play in the Peconic now because it's so polluted. We have to take
control, Southold Town has to take control. The southwest sewer district in Suffolk
County was a disaster, because it was never finished really it just lingered and wasn't
done properly. I think that the builder, the contractor here can play a big impact by
stepping up to the plate and being a model for what can be here and how we can
control sewage and take care of our water. So as you can see, I feel very passionate
about it. Thank you, thank you for everything that you're doing and for the work that
you're doing.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you for your comments, anyone else on this side? Yes
sir.
William Lee: Hi, my name is William Lee and I farm the land that is right next to this
proposed project. Essentially I think that the environmental impact is the main concern
of the community, and I think overall this checklist that I got from my buddy here that is
from a while ago has some major outlined affects that are going to affect what most
people are concerned about here, the recreation of our waterways, the environment and
mostly the water. Overall I think the visual effects, you know they're bad but we are
going to have to deal with them. I think that some people want this, I think for some
percentage of the community it's going to be necessary, either for low income or for
elders, but I think it should be done properly. If I could suggest a couple things, most
important I think personally would be to have a little bit more open space or a natural
habitat, some way to offset the environmental constraint that is going on with the
landscaping. A lot of the plants that are proposed in the project, if you know how to
grow things and you're going to operate a construction site to put a project like this into
a piece of property that's this size, yes it might fall within the constraints of the zoning
and the site planning and everything for Southold Town and Suffolk County and green
lawns look nice but we're going to have a major impact from the amount of fertilizer and
Southold Town Planning Board Page 131 August 31, 2015
the amount of things that people are putting down just to keep this place looking nice.
So I think that it would be important if they took a larger area for open space or made
something to do with the lakes at least a little bit better. I know you said they changed it
but we haven't heard to what, I think that would be really important and I think people
would appreciate that. Obviously they need to upgrade the septic system but what's
going through the pipes is not the only thing that is going to affect the environment, I
think what goes straight through the lawns and what goes on the trees and whether
they're spraying for insects or whatever concrete or pavement goes down when the
project is underway. No one has really said anything about how long this proposed,
project is supposed to take and what kind of situation we are going to have
environmentally before anything's completed is a big concern for somebody who is in
the local area. So I am drinking the water right next door, and yes it might be ok to drink
the water if everything gets installed properly but what's going to happen in the near
future while this project is happening. I think that needs to be addressed, I think there
needs to be sections of the property if they're going to build on it to this extent that are
reserved for recharge that are reserved properly for the environmental needs of
offsetting the entire community. It's going to be loud for a while, there's going to be a lot
of issues that go on in the local area that might not affect everybody that's here tonight
and there are people in the community that aren't here tonight that certainly would
agree that this project is going to have a larger affect right off the bat than we can all
foresee right now. So I think we need to just take it slow, make sure all the steps are in
line and I would recommend a larger wild area and a better way to control what's going
to happen besides what going on through the pipes.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anybody else? Anybody from this side, in the middle,
just raise your hand if you want to come to the podium. Yes sir.
Giovanni Borghese: My name is Giovanni Borghese, my family for a long while has
owned the adjacent property, where you see a zigzag in the darker shaded green. I'm
not necessarily approaching the Board as a farmer in this case, as you can see I'm
sitting right in the middle of the room, I honestly had no idea which side of the argument
I would be on as obvious as it may seem after hearing a lot of the different concerns
being voiced and after seeing my buddies here Mr. Cato and Mr. Lee speak I feel
compelled to share my thoughts that I know I can see where some of the long time
standing citizens of the community have voiced their need for something like this and no
one would think to want to out anyone that has their roots set that deep here. Perhaps
the next generation down I want to make sure, as the next generation down we're not
losing site of this but I'd ask each of you to look in the mirror and make sure regardless
of whether this plan goes through or not that it is done to the highest regard as some of
the more expert opinions that have been made tonight, highest regard, highest standard
and that as it was mentioned earlier as well we're not looking at this 10-15 years later
thinking, I shoulda, coulda, woulda. That we just make sure we do things the right way.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, there's not too many of you young farmers around so
it's good to see you come out. Thank you for your comments, yes ma'am.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 132 August 31, 2015
Jane Minerva: Jane Minerva, Cutchogue, actually I was head of the Cutchogue
committee for the Town and I've done a few other things in town, my husband just
spoke a few minutes ago. We ran the boy scouts and the girl scouts in the schools and
the programs and church pianos and librarian historical system and everything. We just
want to be able to stay in this community and live here so we can be near the people we
know and our friends. And I'm sure the septic system in this community will be just fine
but if you already are working with very poor standards in septic's you might want to
check out your local communities where people are running their washing machines out
into the street, emptying their swimming pools, putting in double apartments in two car
garages with single systems and maybe get things under control. It's not the new stuff,
it's not the old people. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you for your comments. Yes in the back.
Debbie O'Kane: Good evening everyone my name is Debbie O'Kane, and I agree with
everyone here who's been addressing the water quality issues, but I would also like to
emphasize just very briefly that we're talking about the potential for about 300 more cars
on our roads, more traffic and were talking about a very concentrated narrow area.
Once again when we're speaking of 280 some odd parking spaces, that's a lot more
traffic. So again water quality is a major, major issue but I think traffic issues have to be
addressed as well and I'm not sure whether they can be as easily mitigated. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you, anyone else? If you want to speak raise your hand
so I can see. Anybody? Going once, going twice, alright Mr. Schwartz it's up to you.
Benja Schwartz: Benja Schwartz again, with all due respect to my esteemed neighbors
and I very sincerely do believe that they believe what they said. This project is not
designed for seniors, even in their descriptions they talk about designed for "active
seniors over 55", that makes me a senior. We're talking about 124 big two story
houses, maybe not all, there are a few that are going to only have attics up there but the
floor plans include family rooms, guest rooms and home offices. There won't be just
traffic for people living there, people might be going to work or going to visit the people
there. There is nothing in the current proposal to stop young families as long as they
have one elderly member over 55 who take title from moving right in there and sending
their kids to school. There's nothing in the current proposal to stop these units, these
houses, we're calling them units but they're big single and separate houses, a
condominium ownership and as far as I can tell there's nothing currently proposed to
stop them from being rented on line other than the recent other two week rental law.
We'll see how that works out and I hope it does. In addition because they are proposed
to be in condominium form of ownership they won't be paying as much taxes as if they
were owned as individual houses. So whether they have kids in school or not when we
need money to construct a new court and a new town hall and a larger meeting room
because we are going to have more people. This project has been pending for 32 years
but if it gets approved we can expect very quickly to see more projects all over town
including on Griffing Street. What would I like to see? Well the reduction from 4 per
acre to 3 or 2.7 per acre that's encouraging but I would like to see the property reduced
Southold Town Planning Board Page 133 August 31, 2015
to approximately 22 houses. The same density that if any other farm on the Nork Fork
was zoned agricultural/residential"would be entitled to one house per 2 acres. I don't
see why this property is suitable for any higher density. It's close to town but it's
proposed, you look again not the floor plans but the renderings of the proposed houses
and what do you see, garage doors, cars, I don't think those garages are included in the
number of parking spaces quoted tonight. Thank you.
Chairman Wilcenski: Thank you. Anyone else? Again this is the preliminary hearing
and this is just opening the door to this project. If no one else has any comments, thank
you all very much for coming and thank you for your comments and I would ask the
Board for a motion for adjournment. The website is southoldtownny.gov. I'm sorry I
need a motion to close the hearing.
William Cremers: Motion to close the hearing.
Martin Sidor: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Bill, seconded by Martin. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries
APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
Chairman Wilcenski: Last order of business, the Board needs to approve the minutes
of the August 3, 2015 meeting.
Martin Sidor: Motion made.
William Cremers: Second.
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Martin, seconded by Bill. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
I need a motion for adjournment.
William Cremers: Motion made.
Martin Sidor: Second.
Southold Town Planning Board Page 134 August 31, 2015
Chairman Wilcenski: Motion made by Bill, seconded by Martin. Any discussion? All in
favor?
Ayes.
Motion carries.
Have a good evening
There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
a6S)-CILLCk, e
Jessica Michaelis
Transcribing Secretary
Donald J. Wifcenski Chairman
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OCT -8 2015 ek 1.S6Prvi
Southold Town Clerk