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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-27-1983 l � MOM 'JUL 3 '10 AIRPORT TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING OCTOBER 27 , 1983 A meeting of the Airport Techncial Advisory Committee was held at 10 : 00 A.M . , thursday , October 27 , 1983 at the Southold Town Hall , Main Road , Southold , New York . The following persons were present : NAME ORGANIZATION TELEPHONE NUMBER Henry A. F . Young PRC Speas 516 488-6930 Paul S . Puckli it toit Maria Ferri-Cousins " " ififit Edwin K. Reeves Air Taxi 203 447-0123 David C . Spohn N. F . Aviation Assoc . 516 323-3543 Ruth Oliva N. F .E .C . 516 323-2441 Peter Pomeranz N . Y . S . Dept . of Trans . 516 360-6131 Bob Felber S. C . Planning Dept . NRSPB 516 360-5723 Ritchie Latham Southold Town Planning Bd . 516 765-1938 Raymond C . Dean Supt . of Highways 516 765-3140 -William F .Mullen of the Southold Town Planning Board was unable to attend this first meeting . MR . PAUL PUCKLI : There is going to be a public meeting this after- noon and that will be a little more formal than what this is . What if I just start on the first page of the introduction , to discuss what we are doing here today , and we ' ll get a little bit more into this document . The purpose of this meeting is to introduce ourselves to the advisory committee here . Tell you who we are , what we are going to be doing in the study , the study process , goals , objectives , what the study will address . At the end of this document there is a questionnaire form and we would like everybody to fill thatout and hand it back so we ' ll have your name on file and so that we have your telephone number and then we can contact you as our study progresses . Also , in this document there is an inventory checklist , things that we need in doing our study , and if there is anything that anybody here can help us with and provide , we would like to know that on that quest- ionnaire form . The next page on the document , study consultants , the firm is PRC Speas . We are located in Lake Success which is here on the Island . I live in Suffolk Countymyself . I live in Holbrook , which is just an hour from here . I am the project manager , my name is Paul Puckli . To my left is Maria Ferri-Cousins . She is also at the firm. She is a pilot . She is going to come out here and do the invnetory and data collection . She will be picking up all the information . She will be flying around the area also , to look at the potential sites. To my immediate right is Henry Young , who is our environmentalist and land Ise planner . He will be handling environmental issues and off-airport nd use issues . He will be looking at the land use in the vicinity of ever site we may decide to take a look at . The firm PRC Speas , �o fill you in a little bit is a , all we do is airport planning . u have selected us to do is all we do . Airport site selection master plans , we help airports in any regard , financial studies , Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -2- 10/27/83 environmental studies , land use studies . So, that ' s our business and we are one of the larger airport planning firms in the country . The next page is a listing of goals and objectives which the study is trying to address . What we contend to do is pick out the most feasible site for locating the airport . And we are going to take a look at perhaps eight (8) sites within the town. We will probably narrow that down to three ( 3) or four (4) sites and look at those sites in more detail . And hopefully , we will come up with a site that is feasible . If we come up with a feasible site , we will then proceed with a master planning that site . Doing a master plan of it , what the runway might look like , any buildings that we might want to put up , land use around the facility , things like that . Then the master plan would cover three ( 3) implementation phases which would be a short term five (5) years ; intermediate term would be ten ( 10 years ; and long term is twenty ( 20) years . And when I say phases , I ' m talking about development that the airport might need to accomodate activity . Going further down on the page, we addressed two objectives or two reasons why the Town needs a study now. We have been involved in this for the last three years . We were selected as your consultant three years ago in 1980. At that time it was determined that the town is in need of an airport to serve the needs of the Town of Southold ' s aviation users and the surrounding community based on projections which reflect the existing situation . What they are really saying is that the town feels it is important to take a look at the feasibility of a town owned airport to help attract tourism , to help as a transportation link to your national air transportation system. Just to serve the town ' s aviation needs . Also , airport improvement projects must be evaluated within the context of the current master plan . So , we ' ll take a look at the town ' s situation and what their needs are at that airport. Then plan that airport for the town ' s needs , aviation needs. Then specifically , when we go further down the page , we ' ll take a look at environmental impacts of establishing a town airport . Then an immediate action program . That immediate action program will be the fesaibility of the airport and then what the airport might physically look like and what we can do on an immediate basis to get the airport established as far as land acquisition , things like that. Then we will take a look at runway requirements , land for the runway , type of runway , as far as navigational aids things like that , that the runway might need. The next item we will get into is the location and extent of general aviation servicing facilities , and that may be fueling facilities hangars , a terminal building perhaps . When I say terminal building, we are talking about just a small facilitity to process pilots when they need a telephone to call the FAA flight service station things like that . We are not talking about a large airpot . We are talking about a small general aviation facility . Also , we will take a look at the other air- ports in the area and their availability to service the needs of the Town of Southold . That would be Suffolk County , Islip Airport , airports within the immediate area of serving the needs here . And then we will also take a look at the potential of the development of light industrial on or near the airport . When I say light industrial , it might be some , well , it would not be a heavy industrial thing . A lot of airports have industrial parks on the airport which are really offices . And that might be something that can bring revenue into the town and make the airport more viable . We are going to take a look at the potential for Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -3- 10/27/83 that kind of thing on the airport . As far as the study results , we will , there will be a number of products that will come out of the study . First there will be a graphic presentation of the of our findings . That will be in the form of a report something like this . It will also have plans for the airport showing the facility in the town with land use around it and the impacts that the airport will have on the surrounding land use . There will also be a schedule of priorities which is a phase program of development that will be in- cluded in this . We will produce so that the town is in a position to afford the airport to be able to put in the improvements , whether it be to put bonds out or from revenue within the town to do the improvements needed at the airport . Chen also , the master plan report itself will have all the back-up information as far as forecase activity which we will produce as far as environmental impacts . It will have all the information that we went through in developing the study . There also will be alternatives . We will be taking a look at alterna- tives of the alternative sites within the town . And we will discuss each alternative in detail and why we chose one site over another site which we felt was the most reasonable site . And finally what comes out of it is a report that can be understood by anybody . There will be no unclear language In there , there ' ll be aviation language but it will be explained in the stuay . It will be understood by the people in the town. 5o that nobody says that we are trying to put something over on them . Everything will be explained . There will be public meetings and every- thing will be explained as to what ' s going in the study to all the interested citizens in the town . It ' s going to be a document and the participation program will explain what ' s been going on in the study fully . If there is no questions on that , we ' ll go onto the next page which is the work program outline . Today is day one of the study , the kickoff meeting . From this point on , then we go through this five ( 5) phase program in actually producing the study . Phase 1 which we will be starting within the next week or two is the airport requirements . The inventory and data collection is the very first thing that we do and that ' s where you will see Maria coming out here and collecting information picking up all the data that ' s available , taking a look at potential sites From that , then we will produce a forecast of aviation activity . Then we will coordinate that with the ongoing downstate study and I don ' t know if all of you are familiar with that . New York State has just embarked on a system plan of aviation for the downstate area which includes Nassau , Suffolk County , and portions of upstate New York , Orange County , Rockland County and we will coordinate with them in producing our forecast of aviation activity . MR . : Have you been in contact with them , yet? MR . PUCKLI : We have not been . Since we are just getting into the study . MR . Because the GAST has just begun . That ' s the general aviation system plan . MR . PUCKLI : So , we will coordinate with them, hopefully to have a forecast here in Southold that agrees with the forecast that they come up with in that system plan . Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -4- 10/27/83 MR . ?: If you give me a call , I ' ll give you all of the information . MR . PUCKLI : Then the next thing after we have a forecsat of activity , that forecast is done for the next twenty years , we then produce a demand capacity analysis . What the does is it takes a look as the demand , the forecast . That produces a capacity as far as what the airport would need to accomodate that demand as far as hangars , apron space , or aircraft parking, things like that . Then the result of that , the demand capacity analysis is a facility requirement section which then actually takes that , the capacity needs and puts io into facili- ties as far as how big of a hangar do you need , how large of an aircraft parking apron do you need . And then after we have a definition of what the airport should look like , you then go into the site selection itself. Because then we know how bid the airport should be. The first thing we do is an environmental reconnaisance . What that is it takes a look at the environment that will be pertinent to developing an airport . That ' s just a brief overview , at that point . We then take a look at the alternatives analysis , after that , which will take the eight ( 8) sites or whatever number of sites that we have and we will place each airport , let ' s say template of the airport at the site and do an analysis of what that airport will do at that particular site as far as impacts to surrounding land use , land ownership in the area, access to that parti- cular airport . Then we will narrow that list down to let ' s say three or four and the results of that alternatives analysis will be one specific site that we think is most feasible . Hopefully , we will find one site that is feasible . The next point is the master plan itself. Actually planning the site that we have picked out and we produce a number of plans and airport lay-out plans and then a land-use access plan. After that we produce a financial plan for the airport . The first portion of that is the development schedule which is the prioritized list of improve- ments needed at the airport and then a costing schedule which is the cost of those improvements and then the next phase of the financial plan is an economic feasibility of the actual development of the airport . _ We take a look at methods for , well we take a look at actually , the feasi- bility of putting in certain things at the airport on a cost-benefit kind of analysis . Then we determine what actually the airport will look like based on the feasibility economically . The final portion of that financial plan is the financing analysis which takes a look at the plan of the airport and then the method for financing it . How the town could come up with the necessary money , as far as FAA, state help , and then local sources . And then a management plan for the airport . And that specifically will take a look at how the town should manage that airport . Since the town has never been in the airport business other than down at Fishers Island . How the town can actually run the airport , whether it should be a town employee or a fixed base operator who is out at the airport andrunning the facility for the town. MR . DAVID SPOHN : Paul , there was a phase that the town did operate here . MR . PUCKLI : In Mattituck? MR. SPOHN : Yes . MR. PUCKLI : And that ' s what we are going to take a look as here , whether Ariport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -5- 10/27/83 the town should run the airport whether it should be a situation similar to Mattituck where you have the operator actually running the airport or whether there is something better that the town could take a look at , as far as actually managing the airport . Finally , the last phase , phase five (5) report and preparation . That ' s the environmental review process where it goes through the draft environ- mental assessment and then we have a public hearing and put out a final environmental assessment and we will take a look at the full environmental impact that is expected to occur because of the develop- ment of the airport . Finally the public participation . This is the first part of that public participation , the meeting today , this afternoon , and then we will have four (4) more meetings during the course of the study . Just to keep the public informed and keep yourself informed of what is going on in the study . Study schedule : these are tentative dates . Dates based on the schedule of what we set up in the beginning of our whole process . We would like to keep to it but things always happen and chances are that we will be off it a little bit , but we would like to think that we can keep to this . The next time you will hear from us , as far as a report or a meeting , will be on right after the first of the year . In that we will be putting out our forecast of activity . At that point we would like comments back from everybody here on that forecast because that ' s really the foundation for any work that we do later on . The next thing is about the beginning of February , we are going to put out a phase one ( 1 ) report and that will include a background situation of the town, a forecast and as I mentioned before a demand capacity nalaysis whihc is sort of the requirements . Right after that report is issued we will have a phase one ( 1 ) meeting . That ' s the next time that we will meet here to discuss that report and address any comments or any questions that you might have concerning that report . Then we get into working on the site selction portion of the study and some- time in April , mid April we plan to put out a site selection report which will address all the sites we looked at and discuss the final recommended site . About two weeks after that report is issued , we will have another meeting of this same group here and a public meeting to discuss that site selection report and the site that we did pick out . And on the same day or perhaps the day after , we ' ll have an on site visit to that site that we picked out . This way everybody can see what the site actually looks like and what is in the area and that will be attended by FAA and state D . O . T . and everybody here will hope to go to that on site visit . Then during the summer we will get into the actual planning of the site itself. Sometime mid August , we will put out a draft final report which will then address the actual planning aspects of thatparticular site . And about two weeks after that , the end of August , we will have a final meeting and that meeting will address the draft final report and we will answer any questions or comments that you have on the actual planning of this thing . Based on those comments we put out a final report which will be coming out about October mid October and that will be your master plan document . That will be sent to FAA and approved by FAA and sent to the State D . O . T . and hopefully approved by them . About two weeks after that , we will then conduct a public hearing , probably right in this room here . And that will be advertised in the newspapers and will probably come out , there will be a mimi-statement and that will be part of the environmental review process . At that 'p-a-rt the study is complete . And then the town will hopefully take the initiate to go ahead and develop the site that we do Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -6- 10/27/83 pick out as a town owned airport . MR . And the review schedule? MR . Between site selection and master plan , I think it ' s , I heard they ' ll be allowing two ( 2) weeks for the review. MR . Between site selectiorT and the master plan? MR . Yes . The end of phase two( 2) and the beginning of phase three 3) I am a little concerned in terms of us getting that material up to our Albany office , getting the various people up there to review it . MR . : Typicallly , I send it directly to Albany . MR . O . K . And also , will the FAA be getting it? We ' ll have a period to time . In other words , there should be a review period of all the sites and everything before you start work on a specific site . MR . : I ' ll tell you what happens , when I said before that a lot of things happens that could throw the schedule off. The biggest thing that could happen would be the FAA . They have historically been very slow in responding to it . And that ' s why I said this would be an ideal schedule . We could keep to it , if everybody else that is involved can keep to it . And the FAA has been the biggest problem . But , we ' re not going to go ahead and do anything until we get comments back from everybody involved . And specifically the FAA because they are footing 90% of the bill . MR . Now, before you start off on a particular site , you want to make sure that everybody agrees on it . MR . PAUL PUCKLI : We wouldn ' t do it otherwise . We would be wasting our time and money . MR . . Well , I ' m telling you right now, chances are it won ' t happen , but we try to push it . MR . I don ' t see how it ' s possible . MR .PAUL PUCKLI : Well , they historically are slow . I don ' t want to say they don ' t move . MR . Well , I ' ll say it . They don ' t move . So , you ' re saying that you know it might take time . MR . PAUL PUCKLI : Exactly . So , it could be that the next , the last meeting of this committee will be sometime after October , a year from now. I ' m sure it will be . MR . The involvement of this group in particular , the local people , the local government organization , in the site selection , you went over it kind of fast . Are we going to have any kind of input? On walking around and picking these sites out? Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -7- 10/27/83 MR . PAUL PUCKLI : What we will do is put out a report taking a look at , let ' s say eight (8) sites . I use that number because when we took an initial look there were 8 sites that drew public attention . We ' ll put out a report giving you our analysis because we are the experts . We ' ll want input from you because it ' s your town , it ' s your airport . You know land use in the area , you know the land- owners , you know all the action , so we ' ll want input from you . And then we ' ll put out a report that will address the issues . We may come up with a whole new totally different site . MR .FRANK MURPHY : Is it necessary for Ray and I to stay , we ' ve got to do something . It ' s just that it is a very bad time , we had some bid openings and we had some labor negotiations . MR . PAUL PUCKLI . No sir . You will hear from me again . MR . DAVID SPOHN : We ' ll be working with you . MR . : Next question , could you or someone tell me a little more background of say a few years ago of why the town decided they needed an aiport . How it started , whose interest was it? MR . I think Dave should answer that question . I think he ' s a better person wo answer that . MR . The question is how did the airport start . Like whose interest was it in the airport two years ago or three years ago? Why? MR . DAVID SPOHN: Well , I can give you sort of an overview . The situa- tion in town is that there is privately owned airport that was leased by the town between 1964 and 1979 . The town did lease it and pave the runway . It is a private aiport and they mainly wish their facility for accepting aircraft overhaul engines rather than being specifically interested in the general uses of an airport versus general aviation . Which is certainly their right . And I walk on a very narrow line try- ing to speak for the people that own Mattituck Airport . He was unable to come this morning . His name is Jay Wickham. He will be on this committee . So , there are limited services available . They have re- strictions on what the public can do at his airport . Then in 1979 he declined to renew their lease , the town had on the airport . So , that left us without a public facility on the Long Island side of Southold Town . The town does have Elizabeth Airport , which you are aware of. But , that ' s on Fishers Island , it doesn ' t do us much good . Unless we had a boat to go there to use . So , we tried way back then , number one, we wanted to come in inthe evenings and he declined to have any night operations nor training operations which again is his perfect right . So , what we are looking for the town is a facility that would service the normal needs of transportation for Southold Town, Long Island portion of Southold Town . MR . Some of the reasons that Paul mentioned tourism combined with the state and national system plan and aviation users . But is tourism a big point . Like are you trying maybe to get East Hampton Airport? Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -8- 10/27/83 MR . SPOHN: Yes . Well , I wouldn ' t say quite like East Hampton . MR . They serve heavy tourism over there . MR. SPOHN: Yes , But East Hampton would be a little bit , that ' s a larger size than we ' re ever considering . What we are considering is the smaller size , 3 , 000 foot of runway . There is a very active air taxi network in this area . The gentleman sitting behing me , Ed Reeves , does own one of those operations , Yankee Airways . MR . From Mattituck? MR . SPOHN : No , From Waterford , Connecticut . You see the air taxi operators are based mostly in Connecticut . And if you look at the guidebook for Southold Town on page 1 where it talks about airports it says "if you want an air taxi , callConnecticut" . To give you an idea because there isn ' t an active air taxi operator at Mattituck . There is a person that does air taxi work, but I ' m talking about active air taxi . In other words , the complete spectrum of going some place and getting back and you ' re not knocked out because it gets dark . I ' m not talking about two o ' clock in the morning , but I ' m talking about the capability of night operations . MR . Well like in this weather , this time of the year , after five or six o ' clock it ' s dark . MR . SPOHN : That ' s right . So theoretically , you ' re shutdown , in this part on the north fork , there is no operations , except one . And to be real specific , that ' s in Orient . It ' s a small strip , I have an airplane there . There is three airplanes there that can operate after dark on the north fork . MR . It it still in operation with lights? MR . SPOHN : No , it has lights there and it ' s operating , but it would not suffice for a general aviation facility for the area because it is too small . MR . So , then I was thinking , tourism is the main thing? The real impetus for having the airport? MR. SPOHN : Well , I would say transportation itself, not just plain tourism . But people do travel back and forth . MR . To where? R . SPOHN : To Connecitcut . Ask Ed on that . He has the. . . For instance , I ' ll give you some for instances . These are good specific questions . There are a number of employees that travel daily back and forth by air to Fishers Island. That ' s a New York portion of this town . So , there fore , I can see that if we have a matching facility here , a lot of those jobs could very well go to New York people . At the present time, they are limited to Connecticut people because they have the facilities to go over there . I would say that there is , just off hand , 20 or more people workmen that go over there every morning . When you talk about access to Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -9- 10/27/83 jobs and jobs , that ' s one of them. And the same time communications between Fishers Island which is part of the town and Long Island part of the town , it ' s the same thing . So , if you say that the alternative would be perhaps , well , to go to Westhampton , Suffolk County Air Force Base . Now you are talking about a 45 to 50 minute ride over there and back before you do any of the flying and you ' re adding that much to the flying because of the type aircraft you ' re talking about that travel at about 110 to 115 , so you ' re just increasing it threefold or fourfold and if you are talking about saving energy in transportation . MR . Well , then a local airport then has local needs . The Suffolk County Airport is kind of far away to base an aircraft . MR . SPOHN : That ' s one of the things . Now . . . MR . Also , there is no equivalent , there is no service here on the north fork as you are saying . East Hampton serves that portion . There is nothing here on the north fork . There ' s Suffolk Airport , then there ' s MacArthur . Then the next larger one , Republic , Brookhaven . . . MR . SPOHN : On the south shore you have Montauk , East Hampton , Suffolk County , Brookhaven . MR . : I just happen to have a map . I just happen to be working on it . Strictly there ' s a lot of red dots and the large dots are the public airports considered large size . So , I guess you can see there is nothing on the north fork except , I didn ' t even put Orient , I didn ' t realize it was there . It ' s still there? MR . SPOHN : Yes , it is a private strip . MR. There ' s Mattituck and Suffolk Airport is here . It ' s a long drive from Southold . And East Hampton is here . MR . SPOHN : Yes . On the north side there Calverton is military . MR . O . K . That ' s not usuable . MR . SPOHN : That ' s not usuable . Let ' s see what the other red dot you have up there . MR . You want to take a look at it? MR . SPOHN: Next to Calverton , that ' s a new one . MR. : Oh , well , it just helps , it gives you a picture . MR . SPOHN : Well , while I ' m looking at it there is another gentlemen sitting here that would like to give you input . COUNCILMAN MURDOCK : My name is Larry Murdock , I ' m on the Town Board . David left out in his answer to you , my two prime reasons for supporting it , a town airport . I was probably the prime instigator to get the Town Board lined up to go along with this grant program . The first thing is an advantage of education . I would like to see a town airport so that T Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -10- 10/27/83 our high schools can start to participate in a flight training program . I believe in getting our youths job opportunities . As it is today , if any of our youths want to learn how to fly an air- plane to start accumulating time towards a commerical license , they have got to go at least to Westhampton . And none of us know how long that facility is going to operate anyway . If it keeps doing as well as it is doing so far , it will be defunct before this study is finished . The second factor is the availability of our becoming a more mobile society that people can live in . This community is a recreation and residential community . We don ' t have huge financial inflamite . And with the ability , we have two fellows that have their own strip in Orient to commute themselves . I would like to see a more available structure for people who have the ability to have a private airplane fly from here to Connecticut and fly from here to Westchester , fly from here to southern Jersey . To be able to maintain their home here , have their children go to school here . This town ' s growth pattern is going to be limited by not being able to participate in a mobile society without an airport . It does us no good to have a man who has an airplane and who lands in Westhampton and then puts an hour or hour and a half in his automobile to come out here to live . If he ' s got to do that , he ' s not going to stay here anyway . Because of flying time and driving time , he ' s obviously going to locate in Westhampton or someplace over there . I think the airport is very important for the growth of Southold . You ' re never going to get , I ' m not sure we would want it , you ' re never to get a Corning Fiberglass to come in and open up an optical center . We don ' t have the ability to do that . So , what ever fiscal growth we have has to be related to recreation , tourism , and residence . There are the two (2) important parts that they have left out : ( 1 ) the availibility of a school training program . One of the reasons the lease was withdrawn was pressure to use the Mattituck Airport for a training facility . There are no schools available for our students . I do think the Town of Southold has three (3) high schools and they should have the availibility . MR . SPOHN : I hadn ' t quite gotten to a couple of those points , but I ' m glad that he brought them up . But there are students actively interested in learning . And there are a number of instructors in this area that do not have a facility in this area from which to operate , that they travel to Westhampton or where ever . On very limited occasions use the Orient strip . But that ' s only one person . MR . I ' m pretty sure that I know what you are interested in , I ' m just asking questions . MR . SPOHN : I have my doubts that the community really (unintelligible portion of tape from 347 to end of ## , side A of tape) and very beginning of side B also unintelligible . MR . . . . . in that they have to have someone pick them up , just buying food and clothing , just bringing gas for the people and building . They are always building another house . So , if you had an airport here , it ' s going to attract someone who is going to be doing things along that line , then . Mr . SPOHN : That ' s true . S j Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -11- 10/27/83 MR . Together with tourism. MR . SPOHN : That ' s true . MR . So , I ' m just asking , I ' m thinking . MRS . RUTH OLIVA: But we have a different type of money that usually settles here . It ' s quiet money . MR . SPOHN : Yes , that ' s a good point . MR . I guess that ' s a good description . It ' s quiet money . And you wouldn ' t want that , perhaps you wouldn ' t want that type of build up . But having an airport , presumably would increase the activity out here. MR. SPOHN : It would be a service . MRS. RUTH OLIVA: It certainly would make it easier for them if they can well afford to fly back and forth instead of going on the L . I . E . MR. SPOHN: There ' s an important point here . It isn ' t so much people with money , as it is with people with time and critical need . In other words , what I am trying to say is that there is a lot of aviation users who are out there , who are not necessarily distinctly over affluent , but they may be working professionally and really have to be able to get around . MR . RUTH OLIVA: To put an example in . My husband is in public relations Well , supposing the next day all of a sudden, he might have to fly to so and so . Well , instead of having to drive into one of the New York City airports , if there is some sort of a taxi service that he could take right from here into La Guardia or Kennedy , it would make it so much easier. And I ' m sure that you are going to find that there are a lot of people out here in the communications business that can proba- bly afford themselves of a service such as that . And the company would pay for it , it would be on their expense account . MR . How about going to MacArthur? MRS. RUTH OLIVA : You have difficulty getting flights out of MacArthur to many cities in the country . It just doesn ' t work out . They do have a shuttle , I understand to Kennedy , but it ' s not cheap . MR SPOHN : Oh , I can add to that , Ruth . Say that I fly for U . S . Air and U . S . Air is starting the first of next month to put 3 round trips to Pittsburgh and back which connects to the hub in Pittsburgh which will take you anywhere in the country . But , the coverage is not , as you say , as much as you would have at either JFK or La Guardia. Now , when you talk about the air taxi connection , I ' ll give you some of the options that you could do with an air taxi . You could fly from this area , right here in Southold Town , you could go to New Haven for a very low air taxi fee , connect with one of the feeders that has a joint fare with some of the majors carriers and for a very low fee you could actually leave here with your bag, go to New Haven , get on that connector and connect with any of the major carriers , you could Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -12- 10/27/83 go right across the Sound to Groton , Connecitcut in which you have several of the feeders operating out of there which have very peri- pheric flights to LaGuardia and Kennedy , which also have joing fares . So , you ' re only talking 8 minutes . In other words , you ' re 8 minutes from a connection in s small airplane to Groton. Those are just two of them. MR . When you say from here , you mean from Orient? MR . SPOHN : Well , I ' m saying , assuming you ' re talking about . . . MR . You are not doing that now? No one connects that way now? MR . SPOHN : No , no . I can do it . See I ' m privileged , I can do it because I have my own airplane and I ' m based at Orient. So , I ' m 8 minutes from Groton and I can do it 24 hours a day . So , I have the capability of doing everything that we ' re trying to provide for here for everybody . So that they can pick up the phone and ask an air taxi operator "I need to get to Connecticut , Can you take me?" And that ' s where Ed comes in . The people that Ed carries are certainly not the spectrum that you are talking about in East Hampton . Right Ed? MR . ED REEVES : I don ' t mean to imply that because that ' s a totally different world . And I don ' t mean that kind of money . I just mean a little above average income . Either you in a type of business that needs the flight or you have money . MR . SPOHN : East Hampton , for instance , has an operator over there that goes right into La Guardia now . They terminate at the Marine Air Terminal . ' Because I drive into LaGuardia now to go to Pittsburgh , I ' m based in Pittsburgh . Two months ago , I was based in Boston , so I communted from Orient Point and I flew into Norwalk , in which I had a small car in which I went to my base in Boston . And we have another pilot in Orient that does the very same thing. He flys to Norwalk , which is 12 miles outside of Boston , to fly out of Boston . So , that ' s part of the spectrum . MR . These are selective people you ' re talking about . MR . SPOHN : Well , these are people that to go to earn their living all over the United States and come back and live and spend it here and pay their taxes here . MR . : A lot of Southold Town is not that job bracket , to my knowledge , it ' s a lot of just average income people . MR . SPOHN : Well , you know aviation , let me add one thing . You first . . . MR . I think the scope of this whole business is that this county is growing . That we haven ' t probably half the people are not natives now. We are getting an influx and the people we are getting in here are driving our real estate up like crazy . These people that are coming in are six fugure people are coming in here . ?hgy've got money . So , if they want to go , they can go to these places . So , it ' s not that high high bracket that we ' re talking about on the south side . Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -13- 10/27/83 We ' re talking about six figure people making it and they want a home out here . And they are business people . You don ' t realize the people that we are getting out here . MR. You are saying six figure income people? MR . RAY DEAN : Why , certainly , over $100 , 000 . 00 . MR . That ' s a high income . MR . RAY DEAN : The people we are getting in here , now, this influx of people that we are getting in here are up to six figure people. Ask the natives . Ask Dave , ask Ruth, ask Rich . Am I saying anything wrong? MR . SPOHN : No . MRS. RUTH OLIVA: No, very often the reason they have is because both husband and wife are working . They both have very good jobs . MR . RAY DEAN : No , what you are trying to say , if I ' m understanding you , is that you don ' t have that type of money here , the people that could afford . . . . MR . I am questioning it , yes . MR . RAY DEAN : That ' s what was in your mind . MR . How many six figure people . . . MR . RAY DEAN : You are giving us the impression , I think , that you don ' t think there are enough people in town . . . . MR . I don ' t know . I am asking you . MR . RAY DEAN : You don ' t think there are enough $100 , 000. 00 people and over in this town and I am telling you those are the people that are coming into town now . So , these are the people that we are going to be dealing with . This is why you were coming down , and I don ' t think you were right , I think you should be coming up with the people that are moving into town . We are getting an influx of people into this town that I know because being Commissioner of Public Works , Superintendent of Highways and knowing what ' s coming in here , what they are building and the Planning Board , the kinds of houses they are building. The people are coming in and buying the old houses and they are spending a fortune on them . They ' re not a $50 , 000 . 00 person or anything like that . They ' re spending a fortune on them. They are the money people . They are the quiet ones . They are the ones in T . V . , radio , designers , things like that , we ' re getting a lot of this stuff out here . These people are the money people . They don ' t want their names in the paper , they don ' t want it in Suzies column , they don ' t want it in anybody ' s column . That ' s what the south shore is . And this is what I think you are looking at wrong . MR . No , I was asking and maybe implying . I ' m trying to Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -14- 10/27/83 question the basis of it , if they are high income people . So , I ' m trying not to make any assumptions . I ' m trying to ask . The next question would be : "Do you the town think a sufficient number of people from some bracket from some interest would support the airport?" And you ' ve answered it saying there is sufficiently high income people to support it . MR . SPOHN : Well , let me expand a little bit on that . One of the present big industries in town is the Mattituck Air Base. He has fifty employees year round . Now , that ' s one of the bigger year round employees in town . And what they do is overhaul aircraft engines and they do it very well . As a matter or fact , they have a very good reputation for doing that and they are internationally known . They ship those engines everyplace . It ' s just that he is a specialist. That ' s all he wishes to do is overhaul engines . He does not want to be involved in any other part of aviation . So , that ' s why the whole thing is in place that we ' re trying to get a general aviation facility that does all of the normal general aviation things . Because he needs his strips simply for a business aspect of getting aircraft in there to overhaul the engines . So , if you expand that thought that that all that business is brought into on wings and he keeps fifty people working year round . That ' s a good part of this economy . So , there ' s obviously spinoffs to that which he does not want to be involved in . MR . r ^ . Well , I am learning . I know a lot about Southold from working for Suffolk County for a lot of years , but I wasn ' t aware of this much . I know there ' s a lot of building going on . Orient Point , for instance , what happened out there with the property , the problems . MRS . RUTH OLIVA : It hasn ' t gone through . MR . BOB FELBER , S . C . PLANNING DEPT . ? : Which brings me to my next question from a really planning standpoint then . We have a Planning Board member here , town highway superintendent , which really doesn ' t fit in with it , but I guess it does . "Has the the town thought about or prepared for like zoning problems and planning board problems and highway , all that new construction by new people , more zoning needs will be taking place , building problems , all coming from a lot of activit MR . SPOHN : I can answer that and Ruth can too . MRS . RUTH OLIVA : We are in the process of having Raymond, Parish , Pine , & Weiner update our master plan . So , I would say yes , we are definitely in the process of everything that you mentioned. MR . BOB FELBER : O . K . It means that I have no more questions then . MR . SPOHN : And you know , as far as the downstate study , I ' m on that committee by the town , so that anything that takes place within this study is automatically available to the downstate . MR . : Sounds good . MR . I have one or two questions . In terms of justification Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -15- 10/27/83 or reasons for the airport , were you studying things like showing an increase of per capita income , did you find the easiest way to reflect what you are saying?" MR . We already did . MR . O . K. that was the first question . And the second was on the environmental issue , Pine Barrens , the acuifer , you read about them about every second day in the newspaper and it ' s true that an airport will preserve practically forever a large piece of property to replenish the acuifer . But part of the sites you are selecting in your area requirement have a very large wooded area or areas that would havea significant environmental affect, do you think that you will receive a concrete response? MRS. RUTH OLIVA : You just have to be very very careful too , because you know you want to put the airport , if it is found feasible , to put it on say , a more undesirable farmland because probably the sites for the airport would have to be in the widest belt which is down in the Southold , Cutchogue , Mattituck area where we have some of our best farms . Southold Town is hopefully going to preserve as much farmland as possible You want to put the airport on some soil that is neither highly qualified There is a lot of considerations to be looked at . MR . . I think you have a balance here . You have the economic means , you have the aviation needs , there is no public municipal airport on the north fork . And on the other hand , you have the environmental and community zoning needs . So , taking that balance , very carefully now . MR . SPOHN : That ' s right . And that ' s what we specifically hope to be able to accomplish . MR . The region strongly made the recommendation for funding of the study by the FAA and by the State . We think it is something that is needed before the opportunityis lost forever . MR . SPOHN : Ah , that ' s i�, because I feel that an airport and its ' use , the size that we are talking about , is a temporary use of the air . The most temporary use you could every possibly make of any area . No matter what . MR . We are hopeful that you will be successful . MR . So , are we . MR . What do you mean by temporary? MR . SPOHN : An airport is an open area by definition , and an aircraft needs a place where there are no obstructions . So , therefore you don ' t build any obstructions on it , it ' s just absolutely plain left open . So there fore , that ' s why I say it ' s the most temporary use you could ever use for any piece of land . To see that , if you fly around this area at night , all you have to do is look for the dark spots and those are the airports . Everything else is a sea of light and you just look for the great big dark spots and that ' s where the airports are . Airport Technical Advisory committee Meeting -16- 10/27/83 MR . : I think you have a good point there . Everybody is concerned with the environment today . MRS . RUTH OLIVA: We sure are . MR . And people are interested in frankly , whether you are a planner or an engineer . What I would like to know what commerical or other activity would you see associated with an airport . Have you had any people approach you or are you thinking of approaching anybody? MR . RAY DEAN: Well , I could see a time around here that we are going to have a , because you ' ve got a beautiful spot out here , somebody is going to get a building out here and you are going to have conventions . And this is a logical place to have a convention that ' s flying in . There will be little businesses that will pop up that they will have to fly parts . Maybe it will create small business . We have three or four business machine places up on the North Road up here . They make delicate machines . These things could be flown to get someplace where they are going in a hurry . I am buying parts all the time and I say fly it in , fly it in , and then we have to go up the Island to pick it up . And I ' m sure there are other businesses all over town that if it was an availibility there , they would use it . And a lot of people , unless something is in front of you all the time , you don ' t even use it . MR . Since Mattituck did not renew their lease has there been any reduction in aviation activity in town? MR . RAY DEAN: I couldn ' t answer that . I don ' t know how many people could answer that because it ' s not something that you can put your finger on and say what was coming in now . MR . SPOHN : I think the best answer to that is to visualize on a map and say now we ' ll put a road there , now what was the traffic on that area? Until you put the road there , you don ' t know. So , we ' ve never had the facility that fits the spec ' s . MR . Excuse me Dave . Prior to 1979 the town leased Mattituck Airport and the facility that had a certain amount of aviation activity . In 1979 that lease ended . Was there a reduction or was there a loss of business in terms of aviation? MR . SPOHN: No . MR . ED REEVES? I would say that it hasn ' t grown proportionately because of the restricted use of the airport . MR . SPOHN : That ' s a good answer . MR . : So you would say that it remained level rather than continuingto grow as you would normally expect? MR . SPOHN : Yes . Every report that I have been able to dig out back prior to Raymond & May , there ' s one prior to that , everyone one of them has a forecast that tells that this particular portion of the north fork does show a facility need . And that ' s at least Airport Technical Advisory committee Meeting -17- 10/27/83 four major reports that have shown that . MR . Is there a segement in town that is strongly opposed to the airport? That you are aware of? MRS . RUTH OLIVA : I must say that the environmentalists are going to watch it extremely closely . just where it would be placed . They probably would almost ask for covenants and restrictions put on it so that it is not going to grow . A little small stip , fine . But , they don ' t want to see something that has the potential of expanding and having a big industrial park around it . Because there you would have a major transportation base to fly it now . Where now we are limited because transportation costs are too high , except for these small surgical instruments and very fine instruments which command a big dollar . So , they can make a go of it but major industry doesn ' t want to come out here . MR . That can be approached by the thickness of the andle such weight aircraft . It can pavement , so that it can only h be taken care of by the configuration of your taxiways and runways so that only certain size aircraft willbe able to use it. MRS . RUTH OLIVA : But , I do think the environmentalists and most people are concerned . They will watch this very very carefully . MR . We are raising the issue of people taking environ- mental considerations into account , but , is there any group that is in opposition to an airport per say , rather than just consideration of the environmental issues . MRS . RUTH OLIVA: No . I don ' t think so . MR . SPOHN : No . I don ' t think so . MR . No . I don ' t think so . MR . SPOHN : Ih the past three years it ' s been the consideration , and one was the funding and we think we have very carefully addressed that . This study for instance is based on ADAP Airport Development Aid Program . That ' s the way we intended it . And our group has promised to pick up anything that ' s left over , so that it doesn ' t cost the taxpayer anything . MR . It comes to 2 . 5% and this is for the study and not the implementation of it . MR . SPOHN : No . Even in the implementation , should we be able to address that and get that far , our group would be more than happy to be involved in raising funds . MR . Excuse me , what group? MR . SPOHN : The North Fork Aviation Association . In other words , we try to keep very far away from the general taxpayer in having to using his general tax money for a facility that he may not be able to use . Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -18- 10/27/83 MR . Just explain a little more . Are you the head of it? MR . SPOHN : Yes , I ' m the President . MR . Just say that again . It sounded like you said people objecting to iT that they don ' t want their money used, public money , let ' s say , for instance , this airport . . . MR . SPOHN : No , I don ' t say that I have anybody that is objecting to it . I ' m just saying that we are trying to do it . MR . Could you just explain a little more , how would the association come into a public airport? Where would your association come in? MR . SPOHN : We ' re only talking about the funding for the cost of it . We ' re not talking about running it . We ' re not talking about anything to do with running it . That ' s to be addressed by the study in which the study gives the out lines and parameters for either a fixed base operator to operate the facility and/or the town to operate the facility . Collecting fees for either tie-downs or landing fees or what ever . But that ' s all part and parcel of the study . The North fork Aviation Associa tion is only a so to speak, sponsoring agency in reference to the costs involved . MR . Rather than the town sponsoring it? MR . SPOHN: Well , the town has to be the sponsor . MR . Are you saying that the North Fork Aviation Association is making a contribution to the town? MR. SPOHN: We have promised that we would pick up as much of the 22% as we could . MR . So , you are making a financial contribution to the Town for this particular purpose . MR. SPOHN: Yes . MR . Well , I just want to understand it . MR . SPOHN : Yes , because part and parcel of this is services in kind are also applicable and we intend where ever we can do that , do that also In terms of a voluntary aviation department , like you have a volunteer fire department , something of that nature . I think we have enough people in town in our group that are very interested and they are willing to put forth some of their effort and money . MR . I think that answers my question from before . It sounds like there must be some enthusiasm for the airport , if nothing else , the association , from what you are saying . MR . SPOHN : Oh yes . MR. Paul , will your study include an economic analysis Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -19- 10/27/83 of the viability to pay that the airport will be self supporting? MR . PAUL PUCKLI : We ' ll do a financial planner . Take a look at the profit/loss statement of what we can expect the airport to be doing quota wise? MR . So , the town should be helped out with a large part of the expense? MR . PAUL PUCKLI : Hopefully , we will be able to work it out so that the town will not have a loss expense . MR . I would hope that it makes a profit . So , that it will be economically feasible . MR . SPOHN : That ' s true . MRS. RUTH OLIVA : Otherwise the town board will never go for it . MR . The reason I raise that issue , that has come up to the possibility of a conditional airport , just that issue . MR . SPOHN? I ' m well aware of it . MR . Conditional airports , I think have trouble making ends meet . MR. SPOHN : Not necessarily . MR . . Most of them have been subsidized for a long time now , I ' m not sure ifthey are in the black . MR . SPOHN: It depends on what size you are talking about . Much larger . . MR . They all had to put money into the airport for a long time . MR . SPOHN : Yes , well , you are talking about a much larger concept than we are talking about every getting to . You are talking about East Hampto or Brookhaven , that ' s a much larger concept that what is ever being talke about . MR . Would that change the money arrangement , you know , thesize airports generate just so much business and the rest has to be picked up by somebody else , or does size make a difference? MR . SPOHN : Size absolutely makes a difference because what you are talking about , like for instance Suffolk County which in its ' origina- tion was an air tactical base for the Air Force . It was for fighters and it was engineered for that and the runways were engineered for that . So , all of a sudden tactically it does not any longer become viable , so they shut it down , they give it to the county , and say here ' s an airport . So , you have 10 , 000 foot runways . So the best way to make use of that airport is to use it for large aircraft carrying cargo . But , the question is the pavement is not stressed for these larger airplanes , so therefore , they cannot use it , and the people that live Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -20- 10/27/83 off the end of the runways say "oh , we don ' t want those four engine airplanes coming out of here loaded over our homes" , so they don ' t want to use it for that . So , therefore , you have a very large airport with an annual upkeep that you are trying to support with general aviation . O .K . , but it ' s not all bad , though . There ' s good/bad . The good part of it is that you have an aerospace rescue and recovery group stationed there , the National Guard and active duty people and they are very active in affecting rescues all over the world and they train everyday . So , just their existence justifies Suffolk County Airport . And it only comes down to who picks up the tab for its ' operation . There are specifications that require that if the military uses it for X Percent of the use , the military should pick up more of the tab , but that' s nothing to do with me . I ' m just explaining that just their existence justifies its being there . But , to use it as a general aviation facility after it comes plopped in your lap becomes rather difficult . Anybody else agree with that? MR. Well , it ' s been the county ' s white elephant . That ' s been their problem , having that airport for reasons you say . But how about something a little smaller Brookhaven and it still had problems on how to survive for a long time ,maybe even now , I ' m not sure . MR . SPOHN; Well , let ' s go back to the town itself. There was a fifteen year period and I think that didn ' t cost the town very much . MR . You are talking about Mattituck? MR . SPOHN : Yes . It was totally run by the town . MR. Other than paving the runways . MR . SPOHN : There ' s a fifteen year period in which it has already been accomplished . Adn that ' s the size we are talking about . Now , to give you reference on limiting the size . There would be very few places that you are going to get more than 3 , 000 foot of runway and then it self limits what aircraft will go in and out . It ' s that simple . MR . What is the official classification of the airport size that you are talking about? MR . SPOHN: Class One . MR . I don ' t know the definitions . That ' s why I am asking you . In other words , you ' re staying with a 3 ,000 runway . . . MR . SPOHN : I can look it up in a hurry . MR . : No , I don ' t need it . MR . I don ' t want to tip the cart , but there ' s another point and that is that most airports in most places are not set up deliberately not set up to make money . They are a public service . They ' re like a road , a railroad , or something like that . They aren ' t necessarily created by the people who build them as money making Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -20- 10/27/83 enterprises . Now , they can be . There ' s no question about that. It ' s a question of what your intent is when you establish it . In most cases most airports throughout the country have not necessarily been set up as profit making enterprises . They are public facilities . Now , I ' m not saying that this iswhat this particular situation requires . What I am trying to say that it is hardly surprising that they don ' t make money when you don ' t set out to in the first place to arrange them in that way . MR . Let ' s think of soemthing else public. Boat Ramps , the town has always sponsored those and they are losers . Parks and golf courses , too . MR . SPOHN : Does the local railroad station in my town make money? The parking lot next to it? No . But , frankly in most of the large airports most of the income for the airport comes from forcing people to put money into parking meters and to pay to park there. That ' s generally speaking where the majority of their revenue at large airports comes from . MR . You ' re right , the parking garages is their largest income . MR . You make me think too , when you said that a lot of the airports are inheritated , a lot of them out here were military , and Westchester . In this case , you would be designing an aiport to fit a specific purpose . You apparently have a purpose in mind . The next thing is that it fits your needs , your goals . One thing is that the town board might not want to be faced with having to put money into it so that sort of would fit tigether there . MRS . RUTH OLIVA: That ' s true . MR. SPOHN : That ' s true . Like Elizabeth Airport was a military airport . MR . So , given that right away , you have something that you didn ' t intend . Larger runways , a lot of acreage . MR . SPOHN : Well , that happens to be just about the right size , Elizabeth . MR . You couldn ' t get much smaller . MR . SPOHN : No , it ' s 2 , 800 feet of runway MR. : Aside from the width? MR . . There is reasons , too . Let ' s take the situation in New Haven-which is very interesting the airport there . Although the airport operation itself might not be a money maker , in the state of Connecticut for example , every one of those airplanes that is parked there pays a certain amount in taxes . That ' s not counted as part of the airport revenue . My God , there ' s a lot of money that floats out of those fellows . And there ' s quite a dispute between the town of New Haven and the town of East Haven as to exactly where those aircraft are going to be parked because all they have to do is move from one side to the other ofthe line that runs down the middle of the airport and Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -21- 10/27/83 that determines which municipality gets the tax revenue from that aircraft . O .K . , so the airport does not make any money . But , for sure there ' s a resource there and people are making money out of it . So , I guess what I am trying to say is that . . . MR. That ' s there ' s money someplace associated with it . MR. SPOHN : That ' s what I am trying to say . When we do these studies and we look at what the financial impact of what an airport might be , there are a variety of what I would consider unseen ways that an air- port can make a financial contribution to a community . Now , this is not by way of making an excuse for running a poor operation that does not actually break even or make money . But , what I am trying to say there isn ' t a reason why a municipality might go out and set up an air- port and not necessarily even intend that it makes money because in the broader context , it might actually be a very valuable community asset even though the books of the airport wouldn ' t necessarily show that they are turning in a profit . MR . That ' s why I kept using the word "economic base" , generating money , trickle effect . MR . SPOHN : Well , there ' s always the notion of economic multipliers which we have talked about and touched on where as each basic sector job , let ' s say in a community such as Mattituck . That enterprise lives off the entire region . It doesn ' t live off the people in the community . It lives off the people , for that matter , in the entire world, to a certain extent . It is by definition , a basic sector job . Every dollar that is paid or that flows through that business creates between two and a half and three times as many dollars as it is past through the hands of the workers through the shops , to the babysitters , etc . MR . The town itself is kind of hot on the airport for years theyhave been supporting it . Sometimes I question what they say . They make claims of how many industries are attracted to because of the airpor And you always wonder whether Veterans Highway off the Expressway is it cheap in land prices in Bohemia area , Ronkonkoma , is it the airport , some of them you speak to , the airport is nice , but they never use it . So , you don ' t know . when it ' s called airport industrial park , you sort of wonder are they stretching the imagination a bit or is it real? I had skepticism of this airport , hearing about it , but it does sound much better than it did before . Much more , from what I do know , what little I know , much better than was I was driving here . MR . SPOHN: Oh , thank you . MR. I have a little way of conceptionalizing it because so you never know which comes first . The chicken or the egg , speak , in terms of whether or not , for example , an airport attracts industry or whether the affluence of an area would attract an airport . But , we can almost think of it like a doctor who might have a drug that he has to administer into a patient . Well , the airport is the site at which that things flow through . I don ; t necessarily think that the airport itself is terribly important . But , my God , the things that move through it are pretty important . ' •' Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -22- 10/27/83 MR . From what I ' ve seen from a number of towns onthe Island , people look at it as supporting a rather select group of the community . Hoever , it is part of the community that serves a public community , itis a public function , in the same thing that a railroad station is or a park is . It ' s part of the town . You would hope that revenue can be generated , it can be a break even proposition , at best , not at best , at worst itis a break even proposition . So , that that sector of the community does not saddle the remaining part of the community with an economic burden . Everybody recognizes that if there is economic development , then as you said there isatmultipliwould er effect from the dollar flowing through . And hopefully , kind of facility that is going to attract a certain people who seem to be coming into the community right now and you want to make it attractive You said that 50% of the town are new residents and you also want to not have a community where there are no jobs for your youngsters , so they move elsewhere . So , you want to have the facility . I see a great deal of attractivness in the facility . I think itis a great thing . MR . Now , we just have to convince everybody else . MR. SPOHN : Well , there are three added factors . ( 1 ) Support for the fishing industry . You know the spotters , it could be a bse for that . (2) Medical emergencies . Not necessarily that you can do with a helicopter . MR . There ' s a great advantage here that you are not being saddled with a military base that has been abandoned and that you are wondering what to di with all that land and so you are going to take it over as the town . You can start from scratch . You have the advantages of planning and also taking into account the environmental considerations MRS . RUTH OLIVA : So where so we go from here? COUNCILMAN MURDOCK : Why don ' t we , just as an insight to the viaibilty , just the make-up of this board is competitive . Mr . Reeves is a fixed base operator and he is representing the town for the input on the fixed base operator . And we have had other people come to the town boarc and want to know why they were not selected , that they want the opportun- ity to bid to be the fixed base operator . So , just in this preliminary stage where the only people that technically know what is going on is the people in this room, we already have competition for participation . And I really feel that when the airport is a fate a la comple , the operational opportunities will more than carry the town ' s share of maintaining the facilities . We will probably be able to lease out the operation with more than enough money to take care of our part . I am sure that Ed already knows that there are people who wanted to be on this committee . I ' m not telling anybody anything . The competition has already started for input and for opportunities . So , there is a tremendous amount of local pressure . MR . Rather than opposition? MR. MURDOCK : Oh , yes . The opposition is going to come when you fly over my house . The airport is great when it flys over your house . Now , you want to fly the airport over my house , now we got a little problem. That has to be dealt with in locations . No matter where it s � Airport Technical Advisory Committee Meeting -23- 10/27/83 somebody is still going to say "why here?" There ' s nothing that you can do that isn ' t going to be a problem in that respect . MR . SPOHN : That problem is encountered everywhere . An airport is a regional facility. But , unfortunately , the impacts on it settle on a very sharply defined bunch of people . You can ' t expect them to necessarily be enthusastic about it . MR . MURDOCK : You could do it with a bus stop . They don ' t want people sitting there waiting for the bus throwing their garbage on their lawn . Anything that attracts a certain amount of opposition , it always comes at that particular point in time . MR. Airports to a certain extent are classed in a certain subdivison , it ' s called LULU - Locally Unwanted Land Uses . Doesn ' t make any difference whether it ' s a landfill , a half-wayhouse , or a priso or an airport , or any number of things . If it happens to be right next to you , you may not know know much about anything but you sure would know what you don ' t like . MR . For insance , thecounty bus system. Everytime the bus is re-routed , somebody is in favor ofit , but more people are against itbecause it went down pasttheir house . MRS . RUTH OLIVA : Is there anything else you wanted to accomplish this morning? If not , I ' ll see you this afternoon . MR . If I could ask somebody to fill out that last page in there? MRS . RUTH OLIVA: Fine , here it is . Submitted by , "Bettyille **Please note that the foregoing minutes were prepared solely from the recording tapes , as indicated herein , a part of which was unintelligib A stenographer was not present at this meeting , therefore , no supple- mental notes were available .