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HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-18-1984 TOWN BOARD TECHNICAL ADVISORY/SITE SELECTION COMMITTEE MENTING TOWN HALL 9-18-84 COMMITTEE MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE: PETER POMERANZ NYS DOT 516-360-6131 CHUCK NAUSS SCD OF PL./TRANSP. DIV. 516-360-5714 BOB FELBER SCD OF PL./TRANSP. DIV. 516-36o-5723 LORIN BIRD NYS DOT AVIATION 518-457-2821 FRANKLIN B4AR 516-765-5347 RUTH OLIVA N.F.9.C . 516-323-2441 DAVID SPOHN N.F.A.A. 516-323-3543 EDWIN REEVES YANKEE AIRWAYS,RgivES 293-447-0123 AIR INC. HENRY A.F. YOUNG P.R.C. 516-627-3555 PAUL PUCKLI E.S.E. 813-886-6672 l" TE � tirc�Zr9 Z ----Al I 5,2> / 15 �J 36-a.- _6 /tel —,(orr m 13ir d - -- NYSDOT-- ✓la joh 2 2 -- t_. -- ---- --- - - - - 76 -s j V 7 l4T A -o l t v ---/l}O P4 v iro n,77 e n)0; Fo �� SE 8 13 - —P E - u�,l�.l.� - - --- - -- - - - _ _ - �38� _.6 ( 72 RECEIVED - JUL 3 19 _ _-- ---Townspa __ PAUL PUCKLI. . . IN CASE ANYBODY DOESN'T KNOW ME, MY NAME IS PAUL PUCISLI, AND I 'M THE PROJECT MANAGER FOR THE AIRPORT FEASIBILITY STUDY. TO MY LEFT IS HENRY YOUNG, WHO'S ALSO WORKING ON THE PROJECT AND IS WORKING WITH ME. NEW YORK STATE► IS REPRESENTED HERE. I JUST SPOKE WITH THE F.A.A. THEY COULDN'T ATTEND TODAY BECAUSE OF THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR, . . . . . AND STUFF LIKE THAT. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THEY HAVE APPROVED OUR FORE- CAST. THEY FEEL THE FORECASTS ARE REASONABLE FOR SOUTHOLD AIRPORT, SO THAT WAS THEIR ONLY COMMENT. JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE BACKGROUND OF WHERE WE'RE AT IN THE STUDY. THIS IS CALLED PHASE I. AND IN PHASE I ALL WE DO IS DETERMINE EXISTING CONDITIONS IN THE TOWN AND SURROUNDING TOWNS AS FAR AS AVIATION, DETERMINE THE FEASIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING AN AIRPORT. THAT'S BASED ON ACTIVITY, POTENTIAL ACTIVITY. WE DID A NUMBER OF SURA VEYS AND ALSO WE CONTACTED SOME BUSINESS PEOPLE, PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE IN THE TOWN TO DETERMINE FEASIBILITY AND WHAT THE POTENTIAL ACTIVITY OF THE AIRPORT WOULD B1. WE ALSO HAVE A FORECAST OF AVIATIONLEMAND, BASED ON THE DOWNSTATE NEW YORK, UH, NEW YORK STATE/DOWNSTATE AVIATION SYSTEM PLAN. AND ALSO TAKING A LOOK AT THE SOUTHOLD ,ECONOMY POSSIBLY AND GO FOR FORECASTS IN THIS PHASE I REPORT. BASED ON OUR FORECASTS WE WENT THROUGH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .WHAT THE AIRPORT MIGHT NEED. AND THAT'S ALSO DISCUSSED IN THIS REPORT. SO THAT'S THE POINT WE'RE AT NOW. WE HAVE NOT LOOKED AT ANY SITES. WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW IS DETERMINING THE FEASIBILITY OF THE STUDY AND WHAT THE AIRPORT SHOULD ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE. SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE DISCUSSING SITES BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT LOOKED AT ANY SITES YET. WHAT WE'LL DO IS . . . .THE HAP;DOUT IS REALLY COMING OUT OF THIS PHASE I R3PORT, IT'S A SUMMARY, SECTION II OF THE REPORT WE COULD COPY. AND THIS REALLY GIVES YOU THE GUTS OF THE REPORT AND WHAT WE GOT INTO AND THE FINDINGS OF THIS REPDRT. IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, FEEL FREE TO RAISE YOUR HAND OR JUST SPEAK RIGHT UP. WE'D LIKE TO MAKE THIS AS INFORMAL AS WE POSSIBLX COULD. FIRST ITEM IN THE FINDINGS AND CONCLUSIONS IS DIS- CUSSING THE SURVEY WE DID OF POTENTIAL USERS OF THE AIRPORT. WE SENT OUT SOME 75 SURVEY FORMS. WE GOT BACK A RESPONSE FROM 36 AIRCRAFT OWNERS, 80% OF THEM HAD SAID THAT THEY WOULD USE THE AIRPORT. NOT NECESSARILY BASE THEIR AIRCRAFT Mjr. BUT USE THE AIRPORT. I BELIEVE THE NUMBER OUT OF THAT 36, 31. .LET ME GO BACK IN THE REPORT FOR A MOMENT, OF THE 36 AIRCRAFT OWNERS WHO SAID THEY WOULD USE THE AIRPORT, '.`. 25 SAID THEY WOULD BASF THEIR AIRCRAFT AND THEY MAY BE COMING FROM MATTITUCK. THERE WERE SOME FROM MATTITUCK, SOME FROM OTHER AIRPORTS, THAT WOULD USE THE SOUTHOLD AIRPORT. ANOTHER 5 AIRCRAFT OWNERS SAID THAT THEY WOULD USE THE FACILITY BUT NOT BASE THEIR AIRCRAFT HERE. WE ALSO DID A SURVEY OF LOCAL BUSINESSES IN TH& AREA THAT MIGHT USE THE AIRPORT. WE SENT OUT 44 SURVEY FORMS AND GOT BACK OVER 50% OF THEM. AND WE ASSUME THAT THE OVZR 509 THAT WE DID GFT BACK AND IT WAS ACTUALLY . . . . . . . . .25 OF THE 44. ALL OF THEM WERE IN FAVOR OF THE AIRPORT AND FELT IT WOULD HELP THEIR BUSINESS. IT WOULD ENHANCE THEIR BUSINESS AND THEY FELT THEY COULD USE AN AIRPORT IN TH& TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. SO WE FELT THAT WAS SIGNIFICANT ALSO IN DRTWRMINING THE FEASIBILITY OF AN AIRPORT HERE. FRANK BEAR: . . . .MAY I ASK A QUESTION HERE? I NOTICE THAT . d.-: OF THE 25 WHO RESPONDED, 13 WERE AIRCRAFT OWNERS, OWNING 27 AIRCRAFT. HOW COME THOSE 13 WERE NOT INCLUDED, OR WERE THEY INCLUDED IN THE SURVEY OF THE AIR— CRAFT OWNERS? PAUL PUCKLI. . .THE BUSINESSES THAT WERE SURVEYED? FRANK BEAR. . . .OF THE BUSINESSES THAT WERE SURVEYED, OF THE 25 RESPONDENTS 13 WERE AIRCRAFT OWNERS AND 52% OF THOSE WHO RESPONDED OR 30% OF THE TOTAL NUMBER THAT YOU SENT OUT. . . PAUL PUCKLI. .THIS SURVEY WAS A DIFFERcENT SURVEY. IT WAS NOT DONE, AND THE COPY OF TH3 SURVEY FORM IS IN THE BACK OF THE REPORT. THEY WERE INCLUDED IN BOTH SURVEYS, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. RUTH OLIVA. . .AND HOW DID YOU CHOOSE THE PROFESSIONAL AND BUSINESS PEOPLE,? PAUL PUCKLI. . .WE WENT TO THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. RUTH OLIVA. . .THEY WERE PICKED RANDOMLY, NOT PAUL PUCKLI. . .NO, WE SENT TO THE LARGEST BUSINEESSES IN THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. . . . . .THE LARGEST BUSINESSIES. FRANK BEAR. . .WELL, WERE THOSE 13 AIRCRAFT OWNERS, WERE THEY INCLUDED IN THIS SURVEY NUMBER I? PAUL PUCKLI. . .YES, THEY WERE. THEY FIRST SURVEY WAS TO IDENTIFY SPECIFIC NEEDS AT THE AIRPORT AND IF THEY WOULD USE THE AIRPORT. THE BUSINESS SURVEY WAS JUST TO DhTE.+:RMINE THE FEASIBILITY BASED ON INCREASEE IN BUS- INESS OR HELPING BUSINESSEES IN THE TOWN RIGHT NOW, FRANK BBAR. . .WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED A CROSS SECTION OF BUSINESS? PAUL PUCKLI. . .THE BUSINEESS SURVEY? FRANK BEAR. . .YES. PAUL PUCKLI. . .WE SURVEYED THE TOP 44 BUSINESSES IN THE TOWN AND THAT'S MORE THAN A CROSS SECTION, I THINK THAT'S THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY THERE. GOING ON TO .QUESTION 3 ON THE HANDOUT, WE LOOKED AT THE TOURIST INDUSTRY ON LONG ISLAND. AND BY THE YEAR 1990, PROJEECTIONS ARE THAT THE TOURIST INDUSTE?EY WILL EXCEEED 10 BILLION DOLLARS AND THAT THE EAST END OF LONG ISLAND WILL CAPTURE ABOUT 40% OR 4 BILLION DOLLARS. THE, WE WENT THROUGH A DISCUSSION IN THE' REPORT. OUR F6EELING WAS, THAT BASEED ON THOSE KIND OF DOLLAR VOLUMES, THAT THE, WHAT IS NEEDED FOR AVIATION IN THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD CERTAINLY DOES EXIST, WITH TOURISM, FOR BUSINESS AND FOR AVIATION USEERS. WE LOOKED ALSO AT AIRPORTS IN SURROUNDING TOWNS. THEE SURROUNDING TOWNS BEING SHELTER ISLAND, RIVEERHEAD AND SOUTHAMPTON. THERPt ARE 13 GENEERAL AVIATION AIRPORTS HOUSING 874 BASED AIRCRAFT. IN THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD, THERE ARE THREE AIRPORTS. TWO OF THEM ARE PRIVATELY OWNED, MATTITUCK AND ROSE FIELD OUT IN ORIENT AND ONE ON FISHIERS ISLAND WHICH IS OWNED BY THE TOWN. OF THOSE 3 AIRPORTS, THERE ARE 28 AIRCRAFT BASED AT THEM. WE ALSO LOOKED AT BASED GENERAL AVIATION AIRCRAFT AT THE NEW AIRPORT AND THIS nRICAST BASED ON THE DOWNSTATE STUDY AND ALSO OUR PROJECTIONS ARE THAT THIS NUMBER WOULD START OUT AT 33, A NUMBER OF THESE RELOCATING FROM MATTITUCK AND WE WERE TOLD THAT IN OUR SURVEY,-"FORMS, AND THIN INCRHASING TO ABOUT 67 BAISED"AIRCRAFT IN THE YEAR 2003, WHICH IS 20 Y&ARS H&NC9. ALL OF THESE AIRCRAFT WILL BE SMALIy, SINGLE &NGINP AIRCRAFT, THERE WILL BE A FEW TWIN ENGINE AIRCRAFT, BASED ON OUR PRO- JECTIONS. GEN9RALLY, AVIATION MOVEMENTS HAVE BEEN PROJZCTED TO START OUT AT JUST UNDER 17,000 AND THEN INCREASE TO JUST OVER 20,000 IN 1993 AND THEN JUST OVER 31,000 IN THE YEAR 2003. WHICH IS A VERY MODERATE ACTIVITY LEVEL. AT AN AIRPORT. NUMBER 7. .INSTRUM3NT APPROACHES. .WP JUST TOOK A LOOK AT THE POTENTIAL INSTRUMENT APPROACHES AND THE FORECAST PROJECTWD 342 IN 1988. ANIS 1988 IS THE YEAR THAT WEIRE USING OF THE YEAR THAT THE AIRPORT MIGHT BE ESQ TABLISHED, THAT'S THE BASS YEAR. 342 INSTRUMENT APPROACHES IN THAT YEAR AND THEN INCREASING TO 630 INSTRUMENT APPROACHES. WHICH IS, WE USE THAT TO QUALIFY THE AIRPORT AND MAKE THE AIRPORT ELIGIBLE FOR IN- STRUMENT APPROACHES, BASED ON F.A.A. STANDARDS. WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE PEAK HOUR. AND THE FORECAST IS 8 MOVEMENTS INITIALLY IN THE PEAK HOUR, THIS IS RP6ALLY FOR A PLANNING NUMBWR, TO HELP US PLAN OUR FACILITIES. AND THEN INCREASING TO 14 MOVEMENTS PER HOUR, THAT' S AIRCRAFT MOVEMENTS PER HOUR. WP PROJECTED TENTATIVE COMMUTER AND AIR TAXI ACTIVITY AND THIS IS BASED ON DISCUSSIONS WITH ED REEVES WHO MAY B9 OPERATING AT THE AIRPORT IF THE AIRPORT DOES COME INTO BEING, HE HAS EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN THAT. WE FORECAST 83 MOVEMENTS PER DAY DURING THir SUMMER IN THE BASE of 1988 AND THEN INCREASING TO ABOUT 172 MOV19R&iTS 20 YEARS LATER. AND THESE OPERATIONS ARE ALL TO BE BY SMALL AIRCRAFT, TWIN ENGINE AIRCRAFT. AS FAR AS THE ROLE OF THE AIRPORT. WE HAVE DESIGNATED IT AS A GENERAL UTILITY STAGE I AIRPORT AND BASED ON F.A.A. CRITERIA, AND THIS IS A QUOTW OUT OF THEIR ADVISORY CIRCULAR "WILL HANDLE ALL SMALL AIRPLANES. PRECISION APPROACH OPERATIONS ARE NOT USUALLY ANTI- CIPATED." SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS AN AIRPORT THAT HANDLES SMALL AIRCRAFT, SINGLE ENGINE AND SOME LIJTHT TWIN ENGINE AIRCRAFT. PETER POMERANZ. . .DO YOU FORESEE ANY DEMAND FOR THE SMALL JETS AT AN AIRPORT LIKE THIS? PAUL PUCKLI. . .NDj'lAWE DON'T. WE FEEL THAT THE AVIATION FACILITIES AT SUFFOLK COUNTY OR EVEN MACARTHUR CAN HANDLE THAT. WE'RE NOT PLANNING FOR ANY JET ACTIVITY OUT HERE. PETER POMFRANZ. . . . . . . . . PAUL PUCKLI. . .THEN THEY'LL PROBABLY STILL GO TO EAST HAMPTON. THE RUNWAYS HERE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE JET AIRCRAFT. PiTgR POMERANZ. . .O.K. , WHAT I'M ASKING IS, WHEN YOU SEig THAT KIND OF DEMAND HERE, YOU KNOW, HAS THAT DECISION BIEN MADE OR HAVE YOU EXPLORED THAT DECISION. WILL THE TOWN SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDE THAT KIND OF AIRCRAFT? PAUL PUCKLI. . .WE HAVE NOT LOOKED INTO IT. THE TOWN MAY DECIDE TO EXCLUDE JET AIRCRAFT WHICH IS CERTAINLY THEIR DECISION. PETER POMSRANZ. . .YES. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVS THAT ON YOUR TABLE BECAUSE THAT'S A . . . . . THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT DECISION. PAUL PUCKLI . . .IT IS. THE REASON WHY WE DIDN 'T DETERMINE THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY JET AIRCRAFT IS BASED ON THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NONE OUT PERE NOW. ALL THE SURVnY FORMS AND ALL THE BUSINESSES ARE USING SINGLE ENGINE AND LIGHT TWIN 4NGINa AIRCRAFT. PETER POMERANZ. . .I'M JUST SPEAKING OF VISITING, HAVING VISITED EAST HAMPTON IN THE SUMMER. AND THERE IS A SIMILARITY IN THE KIND OF PEOPLE YOU'RE ATTEMPTING TO ATTRACT TO THIS KIND OF FACILITY. I 'VS SIEEN SOME OF THE CORPORATE.IJETS COMING INTO EAST HAMPTON. DAVE SPOHN. . .I'D LIKE TO MAKE COMMENT ON THAT. I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT YOU WOULD HAVE A RUNWAY LENGTH THAT WO ULD ACCOMMODATE THEM. EVEN YOUR SMALL PRIVATE JETS AND BUSINESS JETS USUALLY REQUIRE 5000 FELT. LORIN BIRD*`*- THFYIRE OPERATING IN A COUPLE OF UPSTATE AIRPORTS ON LESS THAN 4000'"FEET. DAVE SPOHN. . .LESS THAN 4000? LORIN BIRD. . .CITATIONS WERE GOING IN AND OUT OF CORTLAND. AND CORTLAND HAS 3400 FE&T AND 1750 FOR ELEVATION. CITATIONS I KNOW, AND SEACO WHICH HAS 3200 FEET OR 3000 FETT AND 1700 FOR EL&VATION. AND WHAT'S PETER IS TRYING TO BRING OUT, THFRZ MIGHT BE SOME INDIVIDUALS WHO WOULD FLY IN FOR THE SUMMER AND MIGHT BRING IN A CITATION. I THINK 3600 FEET AT THE SEA LEVEL ELEVATION WOULD CERTAINLY ACCOMMODATE A SMALL JET. ED REEVES. . . I WOULD STILL STATE, ALONG WITH DAVE, THAT YOU'RI GOING TO FIND, THAT ANYBODY THAT HAS ANY GOOD COMMON SENSE ISNfT GOING TO BRING A JET AND MAKE AN INSTRUMENT APPROACH OR AN INSTRUMENT DEPARTURE OUT OF A 3000, OR 3500 FOOT RUNWAY. THEY'LL GO TO SUFFOLK WHERE THEY HAVE A 12,000 foot OR A 10,000 FOOT RUNWAY. AND AN ILS, WHICH THEY WONT HAVE HERE. PETER POMPRANZ. . .THATIS THE POINT THAT IlM MAKING. THIS IS THS ONLY REASON FOR IT, IS THAT EARLY ON, A DECISION NEEDS TO BE MADE. WHEN YOU HAVE A DEMAND FOR J&T.:TRAI+FIC, OR DO YOU PROPOSE TO SOEK THAT KIND OF TRAFFIC COMING IN. IF NOT, WHAT :XOU HAVE HERE WILL SATISFY THAT. IF YOU PRw- DICT OR THINK THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY, SAY SMALL CORPORATE JETS OR A SMALL PRIVATE JETS WILL BE COMING IN HERE, THEN WHAT YOU HAVE HERD OBVIOUSLY HASN 'T GONE FAR ENOUGH. THERE ARE SOMdg ASSUMPTIONS HERE IN TERMS OF THE KINDS OF AIRPORT. . PAUL PUCKLI. . . I THINK THE TOWN IS LOOKING FOR AN AIRPORT THAT TS A SMALL AIRPORT, NOT LOOKING FOR JET ACTIVITY. P3TER POMERANZ. . . I WANT TO SIMPLY PUT THAT ON Tff, TABLx TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD. DAVE SPOHN. . .WELL, THE COMMENT FROM MY ASSOCIATION WOULD BE N0, WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR ANYTHING THAT WOULD ACCOMMODATE JET ACTIVITY. OF COURSE, MOSTLY, JETS ARE COMBINED WITH THE TERM "SOUND" OR "NOISE" AND THE NEWER GENERATIONS ARE GETTING QUIETER AND QUIETER AND SOMii OF THEM ARE _LSSS DECIBLES THAN SOME OF THE PISTONS. HENRY YOUNG. . .THAT'S QUITE TRUE, ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE OF THE CITATION. DAVE SPOHN, . .THERE ARE SOME, THE CITATION IS QUIlETER THAN SOME OF THE LARGE, SINGLE PISTONS. HENRY YOUNG. . .THAT'S RIGHT. THAT WAS THE REASON WHY YOU COULDN'T HAVE A JET BAN AT SANTA MONICA. THEY THREW IT OUT. DAVIC SPOHN . . .SO YOUR PARAMETERS COULD EASILY BE PUT IN TETE EFFECT OF SOUND PARAM&TERS WHICH WOULD COVER THE LEARS AND THE ONES THAT ARE THE NOISY ONES ARE THE CORPORATE AIRCRAFT, SLIGHTLY LARGER THAN THE CITATIONS ARE THE NOISY ONES THAT REQUIRE A LOT MORE RUNWAY. HENRY YOUNG. . ,MOREOVER, ,IF YOU DON'T PROVIDE FUELING AND MAINTENANCE AND OTHER TYPES OF FACILITIES FOR JET AIRCRAFT IT HARDLY MAKES ANY SENSE THAT THE AIRPORT WOULD ATTRACT THAT KIND OF TRAFFIC. OTH.iR THAN ON A SPORADIC OR OCCASIONAL BASIS. DAVE SPOHN. . .THEN AGAIN, 3600 FEET IS ONLY A TARGET FIGURSOTHAT' S NOT NEC— ESSARILY THE LENGTH OF RUNWAY WE'LL BE ABLE TO FIND. AM I RIGHT ABOUT THAT PAUL? WE'VE BEEN TALKING 3000 FEET"'FOR A LONG TIME AND OF COURSIs, BY THE STANDARDS THAT YOU MUST COMPLY WITH IN MAKING UP YOUR FORECAST AND LAYING CUT YOUR CROSS WIND CAPABILITY AND SO FORTH, YOUR NUMBERS OR TARGET FIGURES MAY BE HIGHER THAN WHAT WINE BEEN LOOKING AT FOR A LONG TIME, AND WE DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO FIND THE TAR— GET FIGURES. BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THEY'LL FIND OUT IN THE FUTURE. FRANK BFAR. . .IN CONNECTION WITH THAT, DAVE, I WAS GOING OVER THAT REPORT ON OUR STUDY A FEW YEARS AGO, AND I WAS GOING TO RAISE THAT QUESTION ABOUT LE1IGTH OF RUNWAY. BECAUSE, WE TALKED ABOUT 2500 TO 3000 FEET. DAVE SPOHN. . .THAT' S RIGHT. FRANK BEAR. . .AND A CROSS RUNWAY OF 80%, WHATEVER THAT WOULD BE. DAV& SPOHN . . .WELL, I HADNIT CHANGED ANYTHING. IT'S SIMPLY THAT PAUL, WHEN HE MAKES THINGS UP, HIS DOES IT BY THE OUTLINES AND PARAMETERS SET FORTH BY THE REGULATIONS. PAUL PUCKLI. . .BY THF F.A.A. ITIS PAYING NOT ONLY 90% OF THE STUDY BUT ANY DEVELOPMENT COSTS OF THE AIRPORT. AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR IT TO CONFORM TO THEIR STANDARDS. AND THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE. . . RUTH OLIVA. . .AND THE OTIIRR"..WOULD BE TOO LOW? 2500 to 3000? PAUL PUCKLI. .NO. THEIR STANDARD IS 3600 FEET FOR THE TYPE OF AIRCRAFT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. IF THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE, BASED ON FINANCIAL REASONS, EN- VIRONMENTAL RZASONS, ANY REASON, THEN THEY'LL GO FOR SOMETHING LESS THAN THAT. FRANK BEAR. . .HOW DOES THAT EFFECT FINANCING? PAUL PUCKLI. .IT WOULDN 'T EFFECT IT AT ALL. THEY'RE STILL PAYING 90%, IF THAT' WHAT YOTTR QUESTION IS. HENRY YOUNG. . .IN TERMS OF RUNWAY LENGTH, AND I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THESE FIGURE: LATELY, BUT THE LAST TIME I DID, ABOUT 90% OF THE AIRCRAFT SEEM TO BE CLASSED AS SMALL AIRCRAFT AND COULD OPERATE SUCCESSFULLY OFF A 3000 FOOT RUNWAY WITHOUT ANY REAL CONSTRAINTS. PETER POMERANZ. . .ARE YOU EXPECTING OPERATIONS QUEEN-AIRS, KING-AIRS, MITSU- BISHIS? DAVE SPOHN. . .NO. PAUL PUCKLI. . .I DON+T BELIEVE SO EITHER. P&TER POMERANZ. . .BECAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING IS LIKE YOU SAID GENERAL UTILITY I AND I THINK TH3 MAIN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN BASIC UTILITY WHICH WOULD BE A- BOUT A 3000 FOOT RUNWAY AND THE 3600 FOOT RUNWAY IS THE AIRPLANES THAT WEIGHT BETWEEN 8 AND 12,500 LBS. AND I THINK THAT:-MOST OF THEM, ONES THAT THE RUNWAY .ZENGTHS ARE BASED ON ARE TURBO-PROPS MITSUBISHIS TWOS, AND QUEEN AIR. WHEN I WAS GOING THROUGH THE RWPORT, IT DIDN'T LIKE REALLY STATE WHAT AIRCRAFT IN PARTICULAR. YOU DON'T !EXPECT LIKE BIG, SOPHISTICATED TWIN ENGINE AIRCRAFT. DAVE SPOHN. . .THE BEECH BARON IS PROBABLY THE LARGEST THAT WE WOULD BN CON— TEMPLATING. LORIN BIRD. . . IN THE PAST, WHAT STUDIES HAVE DONE, DAVE, IS THEY'VE USED THP CURVES. LIKE IF YOU HAVE GEENEERAL UTILITY AIRPLANES THERE'S THAT RUNWAY LENGTH CURVE THAT'S BASED ON THE ENTIRE GAMUT OF Gfg'NErRAL UTILITY AIR— CRAFT, AND THAT MEANS YOUR ACCOMMODATING THE QUEEN AIR, THE REALLY LARGE TURBO PROPS. IF ALL YOU EXPECT IS A BARON, THAT' S A THINK THS SMAL:.ER GENERAL UTILITY AIRCRAFT. THERE ARE CURVES JUST FOR THE BARON AND IT MIGHT FALL INTO THE LOWER SCALES. THE F.A.A.CURVES ARE BASED ON THE ENTIRE RANGE OF GENERAL UTILITY AIRCRAFT AND YOU MIGHT WANT TO, IF YOU WANT TO STAGE THE RUNWAY, 3000 FOOT FIRST AND THEN 3600 IF YOU EVER GET A QUEEN AIR OR SOMETHING, YOU COULD DO THAT. DAVE SPOHN . . .I THINK YOU'LL FIND THAT THE LAND REQUIREI►SPfi.T WILL DETERMINE THAT MORE THAN THE DESIRE TO GO BI9079R. THE CONSTRAINTS OF THE AVAIL— ABLZ LAND WILL PROBABLY KEEP IT V;EI;Y CLOSE TO 3000. THAT'S MY OPINION. FRANK BEAR. . .THAT' S WHAT WE FELT WHEN WF DID OUR STUDY, I KNOW. PAUL PUCKLI. . .LAT'S SEE, WE LEFT OFF AT NUMBER 11. NUMBER 11 DEALS WITH AIRPORT CAPACITY, AIRFIEyLD CAPACITY. AND ASSUMING THE SINGLE RUNWAY CONFIGURAT70N, THE AIRPORT WOULD HAVE EXCESS CAPACITY TO HANDLE PROJECTED ACTIVITY. AS WE JUST DISCUSS :sD, THE PRIMARY RUNWAY, THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO 3600 FEET WHICH CAN BE LESS THAN THAT. WE ALSO LOOKED AT A CROSS— WIND RUNWAY AND THAT IS THE 80% OF THE 3600, 2900 FEET. THE CROSSWIND RUNWAY WHICH IS DISCUSSED IN NUMBER 13 . WE DID A WIND ANALYSIS. WE TOOK A LOOK AT THE SUFFOLK COUNTY WIND, NEW HAVEN WINDS SINCE THERE IS NOTHING AVAILABLE IN THE IMMED:IA.TE AREA. WE ALSO TOOK A LOOK AT SOAIS LILCO WEATH&R OBSERVATIONS BWING TAKEN AT JAMiESPORT JUST TO COMPARE THEM. AND IT WAS DETERMINED THAT THiP PRIMARY RUNWAY SHOULD BE ORIENTED IN A NORTH-EAST, SOUTH-WEST DIRECTION, MEANING A 3600 FOOT RUNWAY AND THEN A CROSSWIND RUNWAY SINCE THAT ONE PRIMARY RUNWAY DOES NOT PROVIDE THE F.A.A.STANDARD OF 95% WIND COVERAGE. WE LOOKED AT A CROSSWIND RUN- WAY TO GET UP TO THAT 95% AND THAT WOULD BE IN A SOUTH-EAST, NORTH-WEST DIRECTION IF WE WERE TO CONSTRUCT A CROSSWIND RUNWAY JUST TO MEET THE F.A.A. REQUIREMErNTS OF 95% WIND CO VSRAGE. LORIN BIRD. . .SOMETIMES, I THINK ONE OF THE F.A.A. ADVIRORY. CIRCULARS THEY INCLUDED . . . . . . . . . . IF YOU GET 95% WIND COVERAGE WITH 15 MILES AN HOUR. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO DO IT. SOMETIM13ES YOU CAN GET BY WITH ON9 RUNWAY AND MAKE IT A LITTLE WIDER. DAVE SPOHN . . .ITD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT ALONG THOSE SAME LINES. IT'S A. . . I 'LL READ THE COMMENT IfVE WRITTEN DOWN HERE THAT ADDRESSES THAT. THERE ARE MANY AREAS THAT CAN ONLY ACCOMMODATE SINGLE RUNWAY AIRPORTS AND FLYING FOR AN AIR CARRI3R, I REALIZEE+ THAT. EVEN IN AIR CARRIER SIZE, THERE ARE SINGLES RUNWAY AIRPORTS THAT WE USE. BOTH AIRPORTS IN SOUTHOLD PROPER HAVE ESSENTIALLY NORTH-SOUTH RUNWAYS, THESE ARE THE ONES THAT EXIST NOW. BOTH AIRPORTS HAVE OBSTRUCTIONS ON ONE END OR THE OTHER. BOTH AIRPORTS HAV&, LI41IT ED LENGTH RUNWAYS, 2200 AND 1200 FEET. CERTAINLY AN UN-OBSTRUCTED 3000 to 3600 FOOT RUNWAY WITH A NORTH-W&ST, SOUTH-EAST ORIENTATION WOULD BE A VAST IMPROVEMENT OVER THE EXISTING FACILITIES, EtiSPECIALLY A PUBLIC ONE.. THE;.' ONLY RUNWAY ORIENTATION SINCE; THE LATE 1940'S IN SOUTHOLD PROPER HAS BEEN ESS&NTIALLY NORTH-SOUTH. THE PILOTS MUST BE USING THESE RUNWAYS WITH MORE THAN 10 KNOTS CROSSWIND COMPONENT. AND OF COURSE, YOUR CRITERIA CALLS FOR 10.9, ISN'T THAT CORRECT, LORIN? THE MAXIMUM DEMONSTRATED CROSSWIND COMPONENT FOR A CESSNA 1501, WHICH IS A TRAINING AIRCRAFT, IS 13 KNOTS WHICH IS 2j KNOTS ABOVE THE CRITERIA. USING 13 KNOTS AS A CRITERIA, PERHAPS A SINGLE RUNWAY ORIENTATION WOULD GIVES THE REQUIRED 99% WIND COVERAGE, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. LORINc BIRD. . .SOMETIMES, I THINK TH:2� F.A.A. ALLOWS YOU TO GET BY WITH A 15 MILE AN HOUR CROSSWIND IF YOU MAY BUILD THE RUNWAY A LITTLE WIDER. DAVE SPOHN. . .THAT WOULD BE PRETTY CLOSE TO THE 13 KNOTS WHICH IS THE BOOK VALUE. AND THAT'S ONLY DEMONSTRATED AND OF COURSE THE AIRCRAFT WERE FLOWN IN A LOT STRONGER CROSSWINDS THAN THAT AS A NORM, PARTICULARLY IN THIS TOWN. BECAUSE ALL THAT .EXISTS IS NORTH—SOUTH, SO YOU'VE GOT A CROSS WIND ALL THE TIME. YOU BECOME VERY PROFICIENT. LOCAL KNOWLEDGK', SO TO SPEAK. A RECENT F A.A.` FUNDING OF A SMALL AIRPORT IN BAYPORT, WAS ACCOMPLISHED WITH RUNWAYS ORIENTATED .ESSENTIALLY NORTH—SOUTH, ALSO. THAT'S OVER THERM BY ISLIP. LAND AVAILABILITY MADE THAT DICTATE THE ORI&TATION AS SUCH, NORTH—SOUTH IN SOUTHOLD TOWN. OR ACTUALLY NORTH— WEST, SOUTH—EAST OR A 13.31 ORIENTATION. FINALLY, ON THAT WHOLE ASPECT, AN AIRPORT WITH A CROSS WIND RUNWAY DOES NOT NECESSARILY ALLOW MORE TRAFFIC AS A DUAL LANE HIGHWAY DOES. JUST BECAUSE ITIS TWO RUNWAYS, IT DOESN 'T .MEAN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE TRAFFIC, SIMPLY MORE EFFICIENT. PAUL PUCKLI. . .IT MAKES IT SAFER. DAVE SPOHN. . .SAFER, BECAUSE YOU CAN OPERATE THE AIRCRAFT AGAINST THE WIND. THE CROSSWIND RUNWAY WOULD BE OF SHORTER LENGTH AND THEREFORE WOULD NOT ALLOW ANY LARGER AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS THAN THE PRIMARY RUNWAY. THE PRI— MARY RUNWAY LENGTH IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR THAT DICTATES THE SIZE OF AIRCRAFT THAT USE YOUR FACILITY. THP CROSSWIND RUNWAY WOULD BE USED WHEN THE WIND VELOCITY AND DIRECTION PRECLUDE THm USE OF THE PRIMARY RUNWAY. AND THAT'S TH : JUDGEMENT FACTOR, STRICTLY ON THE MERITS OF WHOEVER IS FLYING THE AIRCRAFT. TH.EREIS NO CUT AND DRIED ANSWER THAT YOU MUST USE ANY DIF+ER 0T RUNWAY. IN THE END, IT WOULD BE A BETTER OPERATION AND MORE EFFICIENT AND OF COURSE, IT WOULD REQUIRE MORE OPEN LAND. PETER POMERANZ. . . . . . . . . DAVE SPOHN. . .EXACTLY, THATIS THE BOTTOM LINE. I THINK LAND AND MONEY WOULD BE THE CONSTRAINTS TO GO TOWARDS THE SINGLE RUNWAY OPERATION. ORIENTATE AS BEST YOU CAN, WITH ALL THOSE PARAMETERS PUT TOGETHER. PAUL PUCKLI. . .NEW YORK STATE DID HAVE A . . . . . . . . . .DIDN 'T IT? . . . . . .VALUE TO IT, WHERE THE CROSSWIND RUNWAY PERHAPS`` SHOULD BE LOOKED AT AS MAYBE A TORQUE RUNWAY , JUST GRASS. LORIN BIRD. . .YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVE, YOUR FIRST MAJOR ITEM IS DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY THE PERSON BEING LOCATED A PLACE, IF EVERYTHING WORKS OUT? IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH LAND AND YOU HAVE ROOM FOR IT. IF YOU DON'T, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T. BUT HONESTLY, A 2900 FOOT CROSS- WIND RUNWAY IS GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE. DAVE SPOHN. . .SURE, DEPENDING ON THE ORIENTATION. PAUL PUCKLI . . .O.K. NUMBER 14. WE LOOKED AT THE F.A.A. STANDARD FOR MINI— MUM LAND REQUIREMENTS FOR AN AIRPORT THE SIZE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. THE F.A.A. CALLS FOR A SINGLE RUNWAY AIRPORT TO BE APPROXIMATELY 100 ACRES, AND WITH THE ADD,;Tl0NAZa :CROOWIND RUNWAY, ANOTHER 62 ACRES. SO THAT'S THE SIZE OF THE FACILITY YOU�RE LOOKING AT. RUTH OLIVA. . .A LOT OF LAND. PAUL PUCKLI. . .IT IS A LOT OF LAND. FRANK BEAR. . .YOU'LL NEV9R GET AWAY WITH THAT 'ISITHER. IF YOU CAN FIND THE EXACT LOCATION. . . PAUL PUCKLI. . .WELL, THIS IS JUST A GUIDELINE, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO BE A HUNDRED ACRS, IT COULD BE LESS THAN THAT. THATIS WHAT THEY USE AS THEIR GUIDELINES. AN AVERAGE. PETER POMERANZ. . .IT MIGHT BE WORTHWHILE PUTTING RECOMMENDED, MINIMUM RILCOM— MENDRD, PLAN REQUIREMENTS. A LOT OF THOSE F.A.A. PLANNING STANDARDS ARE JUST RECOMMENDATIONS AND THAT'S KIND OF A KEY WORD. SOME PEOPLE CALL THEM SPECIFICATIONS BUT IF YOU CAN'T BUY"-,'THE LAND, THEN YOU CAN GIST, THE F .4.A. SOMETIMES ALLOWS YOU TO GPT AN EASEMENT. A LOT OF THE,,-LAND R'EQUIREM&NTS OFF THE RUNWAY ARE BECAUSE TH&Y DON'T WANT 80 OR 90 FOOT OBSTRUCTIONS IN THERE. SOMETIMES, WHAT THE F.A.A. ALLOWS YOU TO DO IS • • i` BUY A LITTLE MORE LAND THAN YOU ACTUALLY NEED TO PUT THE FACILITY ON AND THEN GET AN EASEMiNT SO THAT, AN OBSTRUCTION BASEMENT, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN'T CONSTRUCT THINGS OFF THE AIRPORT. AND THEN THEY GET PAID FOR IT. ON AN ANNUAL BASIS. LORIN BIRD. . .THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD THING TO . . . . . . . . . . . . .SO THAT PEOPLE REA- LIZES' THAT THIS IS NOT THE MINIMUM ACCEPTABLE BY THE F.A.A . PAUL PUCKLI . . .O.K. FRANK BEAR. . .AND WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS BACK IN, . .WHAT YEAR WAS THAT DAVE? DAVE SPOHN. . !79 FRANK BEAR. . .WE SAID, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT 2500 to 3500 FSET, REQUIRING APPROXIMATELY 80 ACRES BUT WE FIGURED IT WAS GOING TO BE NECESSARY TO BUY AS MUCH AS 120 ACRES IN ORDER TO MEET THOSE REQUIRSM&TS. AND ON THE BASIS OF THIS, THESE FIGURES HERE IT WILL PROBABLY BE SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF AT LEAST 200 ACRES THAT WE'D HAVE TO GET IN ORDER TO MEET THIS 162 ACRE. PAUL PUCKLI. .WELL, IN THAT SITUATION, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A CROSSWIND RUN- WAY. FRANK BEAR. . .WRLL, EVEN 100 ACRES YOU MIGHT HAVE TO GO AS MUCH AS 150 TO GET WHAT YOU WANTED. THEY DON 'T COME. . . PAUL PUCKLI. . .OH, BASED ON THE PARC9LS THAT ARE AVAILABLE, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. FRANK BEAR. . .YES. PAUL PUCKLI. . .WHEN WE START GETTING INTO LOOKING AT SITES,THAT IS SOMETHING WE WILL FIND OUT. O.K. , WE'RE ALMOST DONE WITH THIS. NUMBER 15, WE LOOKED AT NAVIGATIONAL AIDS THAT WE PROPOSED FOR THI AIRPORT. Wl PRO- POSE A NON-PRECISION INSTRUMENT APPROACH WHICH WOUT.D USE A VOR ALREADY IN PLACE. VOR BEING A RADIO STATION THAT TRANSMITS SIGNALS TO AIRCRAFT. THERE IS NO AIRPORT IN THE TOWN THAT CURRENTLY HAS A INSTRUMENT APPROACH. THIS WOULD MAKE THE AIRPORT SAFER FOR US TO OPERATE. DAVE SPOHN. . .FISHERS ISLAND DOTES, PAUL. PAUL PUCKLI . . .FISHERS ISLAND HAS INSTRUMENTS? DAVE SPOHN. . .YES. ON THE PAGE HERE. PAUL PUCKLI. . .SOUTHOLD PROPER. DAVS SPOHN. . .O.K. PAUL PUCKLI. . .Wh ALSO RECOMMEND RUNWAY LIGHTING SO THAT THE AIRPORT CAN BE USW)AT NIGHT. AND ALSO RUNWAY END IDENTIFIER LIGHTS, TO HELP THE PILOT R.E-ALIN HIS LANDING. AND AS FAR AS LANDSLOT FACILITIES IN NUMBER 16, A SMALL TERMINAL BUILDING JUST TO HANDLE THE PILOTS AND A LITTLE BRIEF- ING STATICN WITH PERHAPS A TELEPHONE, RESTROOMS. ALSO, A SMALL AUTO- PARKING LOT WHICH CAN BE PAVED.. OR GRAV&L, A 38,000 SQUAB ; FOOT AIR- CRAFT PARKING APRON, AND Wit RE PROPOSING THAT THAT APRON BO PAVED, BUT. : A LOT OF AIRPORTS HAVE TURF APRONS. ALSO, THE TIE-DOWN SPACE FOR BASED AIRCRAFT WHICH CAN ALSO BE PAVED OR TURF CONPOSITIDN. A T - HANGAR BUILDING SUCH AS OVER AT MACARTHUR THEY HAVE TWO HANGARS FOR AIRCRAFT. WE'RE LOOKING FOR 20 SPACES THAT WOULD ACCOMMODATE AIRCRAFT. A 320.0 SQUARE FOOT CONVENTIONAL HANGAR BUILDING TO ACCOMMODATE BASED AIRCRAFT. ALSO, WE'RE RECOMMONDING A 100000 GALLON, UNDERGROUND FUWL TANK, TO HOLD AV-GAS FOR SMALL AIRCRAFT. AND A 13P000 MAINTENANCE HANGAR, SUCH AS YOU MIGHT SEE OVER AT MATTITUCK TO HANDLE AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE. AND THOSE ARE THE LAND TYPE FACILITIES THAT WE'RE PROPOSING IN THE INITIAL PHASE OF THE AIRPORT CONSTRUCTION. AND THAT'S ALL THAT WE HAD COME UP WITH IN THIS PHASE I REPORT. THAT'S THE POINT WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW. AS I SAY, THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO TAK.1C THIS AND TRANSLATE IT INTO LOOKING AT SITES BASED ON THE SIZE AND CRITERIA WE'VE D1E'Vr..LOPED FOR THE; AIRPORT. FRANK BEAR. . .CAN I COME BACK TO I AND II? I NOTICE, THORE'S NO SURVEY OF THE PUBLIC. THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL. PAUL PUCKLI. . .THERW� IS NOT, NO. WE DID A SURVEY OF POTENTIAL USERS FOR THIS AIRPORT. PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BENEFIT FROM THE AIRPORT. FRANK BEAR. . .BUT I STILL DON 'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THE APPARANT OV&R-LAPPING BETWEEN THE AIRCRAFT OWNERS UNDER II AND THE AIRCRAFT OWNERS UND&R. . . . PAUL PUCKLI. . .WELL, FRANK, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE THE OVER-LAPPING IS BASED ON THE FACT, THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT SURVEYS. AND THE SURVEY FORM IS IN THE BACK HERE. THE FIRST SURVEY WAS LOOKING AT FACILITIES AT THE AIR- PORT. WHERE THE PEOPT,E ARE BASED NOW, WOULD THEY USE THE AIRPORT AND WOULD THEY LIKE TO SES: THE AIRPORT. THAT WAS THE FIRST SURVEY. THE SECOND SURVEY WAS HOW IT MIGHT ENHANCE THEIR BUSINESS. NOT IF THEY NEEDED THE AIRPORT, BUT HOW THE AIRPORT MAY ENHANCE THEIR BUSINESS, IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE AN AIRPORT IN THE TOWN TO HELP THEIR BUSINESS. SO THRY REALLY WERE SURVEYED FROM TWO DIFFERENT ASPECTS. FRANK BEAR. . .WELL, WHY WAS THERE NO SURVEY OF THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL? PAUL PUCKLI. .WELL, WE DIDN 'T THINK IT WOULD HELP OUR STUDY AND MAYBE A REF- ERENDUM WOULD BE THE WAY TO SURVEY THE PUBLIC. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, WE COULD NOT GET INTO AS PART OF OUR CONTRACT. RUTH OLIVA. . .YOU CAN 'T DO THAT, IT' S AN ADVISORY REFERENDUM, NOTHING THAT'S LEGAL. PAUL PUCKLI. .IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD NOT DO AS PART OF OUR CONTRACT. IF THE TOWN. . . FRANK BEAR. . .WHY COULDN'T YOU DO A SURVIZY OF THE PUBLIC? I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. PAUL PUCKLI. . .YOU WOULD HAVE TO SEND OUT SURVEY FORMS TO 19D000 SOME ODD PEOPLE. FRANK BEAR. . .WELL, YOU DID SEND SURVEYS TO ALL THE BUSINESSES, WHY WOULD YOU HAVE TO SURVEY ALL THE 191,000 PEOPLE? PAUL PUCKLI. . .WE SINT TH :M TO THE TOP BUSIN.ESSES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . FRANK BEAR. . .NO, WHAT YOU DO, IS R CROSS-SECTION. WE TOOK A SURVEY, WE DID A SURVEY FOR THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. WHAT WE DID, IS TAKE EVERY 11TH PERSON ON THE REGISTERED VOTER LIST AND THAT GAVE US A GOOD CROSS-SECTION WHICH I DON'T FIND ANY PLACE IN THIS. PAUL PUCKLI. .W.ELL, MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE THEN, THAT THE TOWN UNDERTAKE A SURVEY LIKE: THAT. WE'RE IN CHARGE OF LOOKING AT THE POTENTIAL ACTIVITY OF THE AIRPORT NOT SURVEYING THE TOWN. WE SURVEYED POTENTIAL USERS AND PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BENEFIT FROM THE AIRPORT TO DETERMINE THE FEASIBILITY. DAVE SPOHN. . .FRANK, MAY I ASK WHO YOU REPRESENT IN THESE PROCEEDINGS, RIGHT NOW? FRANK B&AR. . .I REPRES121T FRANK BEAR. DAVE SPOHN. . .WELL, TECHNICALLY, THIS IS A TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND THEORETICALLY TRZ PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE COMMITTED; ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MAKING THESE COMMENTS. W& WELCOME YOUR COMMENTS, BUT I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. FRANK BEAR. . .IN OTHER WORDS YOU'LD JUST AS SOON I DIDN'T ASK SO MANY QUESTION: DAVE SPOHN. . .NO, IT ISN'T THAT YOU SHOULDN'T ASK SO MANY QUESTIONS BUT THIS IS SPECIFICALLY A TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND ALL THE MEMBERS HAVE BEEN APPOINTED TO SERVE ON IT. . FRANK BEAR. . .I DID G&T AN INVITATION TO COME TO THE MEETING FROM THE,.SUPER- VOSOR'S OFFICE, BUT I'M NOT REPRESENTING HIM. DAVE SPOHN. . .O.K. HENRY YOUNG. . .IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, THE F.A.A. FUNDS THESE STUDIES, AND. THEY GENERALLY SPSAKING, DO NOT FUND THE KINDS OF SURVEYS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. THERE ARE WAYS IN WHICH THE TOWNS AND THE TOWNS PEOPLE'S OPINIONS OBVIOUSLY ARE INCLUDED BOTH BY THE TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE AS WELL AS THROUGH MEi:TINGS LIKE THIS. AS FAR AS THE FEDERAL STANDARDS ARE CONCERNED, THEY FEEL THAT THAT IS THE APPROPRIATE WAY OF INVOLVING THE PUBLIC. PETER POMERANZ. . .UNTIL WE HAVE A PROJECT ACTUALLY, THIS IS JUST A . . . . . . . . . . SAY IT CARRIES. . . . . . . . .YOU STILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH N.E.P. A. , THAT' S THE NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, YOU STILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE STATE QUALITY ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW ACT. BOTH OF THOSE FORMS, OR BOTH OF THOSE . . . . .PROVIDE FOR PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. AND THAT'S ONE THING THAT NEW YORK STATE AND DOT WILL BE LOOKING FOR, IS PUBLIC PAR- TICIPATION, AND THE DECISION WHETHER OR NOT TO GO AHEAD WITH AN AIRPORT BUT IT MAKES NO SENSE UNTIL YOU HAVE A PROPOSAL IN FRONT OR YOU, WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN GO AHEAD, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOTHING TO COMMENT ON. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO MAKE A DECISION ON. UNTIL YOU DO THAT GROUND WORK ON THE TECHNICAL ANALYSIS AND COME UP WITH SOME PROPOSALS, THER&I S NOTHING REALLY TO MAKE A DECISION ON. AND SO WE'RE AT THE STAGE RIGHT NOW, OF THE B�,'GINNING OF THE FEASIBILITY STUDY, TALKING ABOUT THE KIND OF DEMAND THAT AN AIRPORT MIGHT GEN30ATE AND WHAT KIND OF A FACILITY WEIRD TALKING ABOUT. WE HAVEN'T EVEN TO ATTACK SPECIFIC SITES. OR THE FEASIBILITY THAT THE SITE WOULD BE, IN FACT CAN Bl,,' FOUND. THERE WILL BE A NUMBER OF POINT: WHEN THERE WILL DEFINITELY BE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. WRtRE INTEREST&D FRANK BEAR. . .LATER ON. PAUL PUCKLI . . .ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? DAVE SPOHN. . .DO YOU WANT THE COMMENTS ON. . . PAUL PUCKLI . . .WELL, WHAT I HAD ASKED IN MY LETTER IS THAT WE DISCUSS ANY QUESTIONS WHILE I'M HERE, THAT YOU MAY HAVE. BUT ALSO TO GET THEM TO M& IN WRITING SINCtE WE HAVE. . . . . . . . . . .AND I'VE GOTTEN SOMETHING FROM NEW YORK STATE AND SOMETHING FROM DAVE AND IF ANYONE ELSE HAS QUESTIONS OR COMMTNTS, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM IN WRITING. AND I THINK EVERYBODY D03S HAVE MY ADDRESS, IF NOT, I 'D CERTAINLY BE GLAD TO GIVE YOU A CARD. LORIN " BIRD. . ,ONE OR TWO THINGS ON SOME OF THE AIRPORT . . . . . . . . . . .PHONE NUMBERS, BUT I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY BETTER. . . . . . . . . . PAUL PUCKLI. . .I THINK SO. PETER POMERAN Z. . . .YOU REVIEWED THT REPORT. . . . . .I SUSPECT SOME OF THE COMM&NTS THAT YOU BROUGHT UP, LORIN, IN PARTICULAR IN RESPECT TO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DAVE BPOHN. . .I THINK I CAN GIVE SOME INPUT ON THAT ITs'M ALSO. PETER POMERANZ. . .WHY DON 'T YOU READ YOUR COMMENTS NOW? LORIN BIRD. . .BASICALLY, I GUESS, 83 AIR TAXI OPERATIONS A DAY, THAT'S ABOUT 2500 A MONTH AND THAT SEEMS LIKE AN AWFUL LOT. YOU KNOW, PUTTING IT IN PLAIN ENGLISH. AND I WAS WONDERING, IT SAID, THE REPORTS .HAD STATED THERE WAS CONSIDERABLE, I THINK 60 A DAY NOW, AND I WAS WONDERING WHERE THEY WERE GOING? DAVE SPOHN. . .O.K. THE ANSWER TO THAT, IS THAT A LOT OF THOSE WIRE OFF OF FISHERS ISLAND, NOT NECESSARILY OUT OF SOUTHOLD TOWN PROPER. LORIN BIRD. . .YOU MEAN TO AND FROM FISHERS ISLAND? DAVE SPOHN. . .YES, THERE'S 5000 AIR TAXI OPERATIONS PER YEAR AT FISHERS ISLAND AND THE NUMBER FOR SOUTHOLD TOWN PROPER WAS A LOT LESS THAN THAT. SO MAYBE YOU HAVE THOSE TWO FIGURES PUT TOGETHER WHICH I THINK SOUTHOLD TOWN WAS A LOT LESS. LORIN BIRD. . .B&CAUSE THE FORECAST IN HERE SAYS POTENTIAL AIR TAXI ON PAGE 442. IT SAYS POTENTIAL AIR TAXI AT SOUTHOLD AIRPORT AND IT SAYS 83 A DAY DURING SUMMER MONTHS. NOW 83 A DAY 13 2500 A MONTH AND I ASSUMED YOU USED SIX MONTHS PEAK SEASON, THAT' S LIKE 15,000 A YEAR AIR TAXI. AND THE REPORT IS SO LIMITED, I THINK YOUILD USE THE WORD LIMITED AND THAT'S A LOT OF AIR TAXI. IS THIS ACTIVITY THAT'S GOING INTO FISHER'S ISLAND, WOULD A LOT OF IT BE DIVERTED TO HEIRS? DAVE SPOHN. . .SOME. NOT ALL, BECAUSE FISH}i~R'S ISLAND IS UNIQUE. PROBABLY THE PERSON WHO CAN TELL YOU THE MOST ABOUT IT WOULD BE 19D RESVES HERE. BUT IT INVOLV%S m'V�;N WORKMEN GOING BACK AND FORTH TO WORK BY AIR TAXI. LORIN BIRD. . .IN THIS REPORT HERE,, IT SAYS SOUTHOLD AIRPORT, AND IT SAYS 1983, -IT SAYS 65 A DAY. AND WE'RE KIND OF, THAT'S NOT LIMITED BY ANY MEANS. YOU KNOW, 65 A DAY IS A LOT. IN FACT THAT ADDS UP TO MORE, THh AIR TAXI ACTIVITY AS PROJECTED HERE FOR THE AIRPORT ADDS UP TO MORE THAN IS DUE, TO GENERAL AVIATION AT THE AIRPORT. AS FAR AS ITINERANT FLINRS. AND WE 'RE KIND OF CONCERNED WHERE THIS 65 A DAY I GOING NOW, AND HOW MUCH OF IT WOULD ACTUALLY SHOW UP IN SOUTHOLD. BECAUSE, IT'S A LOT OF ACTIVITY. THE 2003 FORECAST IS 5000 A MONTH. DAVE SPOHN. . .WHICH PAGE.' ARE YOU ON? LORIN-BIRD. . .W -LORINk BIRD. . . . . . . . . . . . . .AND ALSO THE GROUND FACILITIES. THE PARKING, THE SPACE. DAVE SPOHN. . .WELL THE BEST PERSON TO TALK TO ABOUT THAT IS SITTING RIGHT HE R PAUL PUCKLI. . .THESE NUMBERS WERE BASED ON OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH ED REEVES. ED REEVES. . .THE WAY I CAME UP WITH THIS FIGURE OR SOME OF THESE FIGURES ON THIS IS THAT I CONTACTED TH9 SEVEN AIR TAXI OPERATORS WHO OPERATE IN THE LOCAL AREA WITH Mrs, AND ASKED THEM HOW MANY FLIGHTS DID THEY HAVE OUT OF THIS AR!&A IN THE SUMMERTIME ON ANY GIVEN DAY. THIS IS HOW I CAME UP WITH THIS FIGURE. AND THAT'S USING SUFFOLK AIRPORT, THEY'RE USING NOW, MATTITUCK AIRPORT, SHELTER ISLAND AIRPORT. PAUL PUCKLI. . .IS IT REASONABLE TO ASSUM& THAT ALL THOSE OPERATIONS BEING CONDUCTED. . . ED REEVES. . .I ASKED THEM HOW MANY OF THOSE WOULD MOVE TO SOUTHOLD IF THERE WAS A FULL SERVICE AIRPORT AND MOST OF THEM, MOST ALL OF THEM, THE ONLY ONE THAT DIDN'T WAS CHESTER AIRPORT BECAUSE THEY HAVE,, A LOT OF THEIR FLIGHTS WERE OUT OF SUFFOLK AND THEY WOULD PROBABLY STAY THERE. SO, LORIN BIRD. . .SO THOSE PEOPLE YOU DID CONTACT WOULD SIMPLY BE COMING INTO THIS NEW AIRPORT. ED RE;EVES. . .RIGHT. zo LORIN BIRD. . .AND THIS IS A COMPILATION OF ALL THOSE NUMBERS? ED REEVES. . .THAT IS CORRECT. LORIN BIRD. . .IS THERE A PASSENGER FORECAST THAT GOES WITH THESE? ED R&EVES. . .THEY AVERAGE TWO PEOPLE PER FLIGHT. LORIN BIRD. . .IS THERE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE YOU THOSE NUMBERS GAVE YOU INFLATED NUMBERS IN ANY WAY? ED REEVES. . . I DON'T SEE WHY THEY WOULD. THERE' S NO REASON TO. I DIDN 'T ASK THEM TO INFLATE THEM. I JUST ASKED THEM POINT BLANK. LORIN BIRD. . .ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THEM? ED REEVES. . .I THINK IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT HIGH BECAUSE OF THE OTHER SURROUNDING.. AIRPORTS. IT' S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME ALSO BEFORE THE TWO AIRPORTS ON SHELTER ISLAND ARE GOING TO BE CLOSED. YOU KNOW, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON BECAUSE THE SAME REASON MY AIRPORT IS CLOSING NEXT JUNE. IT'S PRIVATELY OWNED. AND WHEN A HUNDRED ACRES OF LAND COSTS A MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS YOU CAN'T KEEP IT AS A PRIVATE AIRPORT, SO YOU CLOSE IT. SO JUNE 1, 1985 MY AIRPORT WILL BE CLOSED. IT'S ALREADY BEEN SOLD. AND THE SAME WAY ON SHELTER ISLAND, BOTH OF THOSE AIRPORTS. THE KLENAWICUS' HAVE ONE NOW. THERE'S ALREADY ARGUMENTS GOING ON BE- TWEEN THE FAMILY. DAVE SPOHN . . .AND DID YOU ADD GOODSPEED IN ON THAT? ED REEVES. . .YES. DAVE SPOHN. . .O.K. MY COMMENT WAS ON PAGE 316 WHERE IT SAYS AIR TAXI-2500. THAT FIGURE SHOULD BE 5000, LOCAL SHOULD BE 1200 AND ITINELRANT 3800. THOSE ARE CORRECTED FIGURES FROM . . . . LORING BIRD. . .ON MATTITUCK, G.A. LOCAL I HAV�� DOWN AS 8000 AS OF THE 9TH OF JULY. DAVE SPOH- N. . . I 'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MATTITUCK, I 'M TALKING ABOUT PAGE 316 AND IT'S REFERUIBCE TO ELIZABETH FIELD. AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE. I'LL GIVE: YOU CORRECTED FIGURES. THE REFIT OF THEM ARE IN THE BALLPARK BUT THESE WERE CORRECTED. THE AIR TAXI IS 5000, LOCAL INSTEAD OF 2500, G.A . LOCAL IS 1200 AND ITINERANT IS 3800. LORIN BIRD. . .O.K. WHILE YOU6RE STILL ON THAT SAME PAGE, WOULD YOU GO DOWN TO MATTITUCK . . . . . . . . .G.A.LOCAL IS 8000. DAVE SPOHN. . .YES, THAT 12,000 LOOKED:VERY HIGH. FRANK BEAR. . .5010 YOU SAID? PETER POMERANZ. .THE 50-10 IS A REPORT, THAT' S THE NUMBER OF THE REPORT. THE G.A. LOCAL UNDER MATTITUCK AIRPORT IS 8000 INSTEAD OF 12,000. FRANK BEAR. . .AND THE AIR TAXI IS RIGHT THEN? PETER POMERANZ. . .YES. SO YOUR TOTAL WILL CHANGE. ED R SVES. . .MATTITUCK IS STATING THAT THEIR AIR TAXI IS 300 ,PER YEAR? PETER POMERANZ. . .YES. ED REEVES. . .I DO 300 A YEAR OUT OF THERE. AND THERE+:IS SIX MORE OPERATORS GOING IN THERE OTHER THAN ME. AND I'M NOT EVEN EXAGERATING ON THAT FIG- URE, PETER POMERANZ. . .THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE BROUGHT UP THAT AIR TAXI, BEBAUSE THE EXISTING ESTIMATE; IN HERE WAS A LOT MORE THAN COULD BE ACCOUNTED FOR ADDING UP ALL THE LOCAL, ITINERANT. . . . . LORIN BIRD. . .THE WAY, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE GET THESE NUMBERS? ED REEVES. . .RIGHT. LORIN( BIRD. . .FOR INSTANCE, IN DOING A 5010 REPORT, ITLL GO INTO THE AIRPORT OFFICE AND SAY HOW MANY AIR TAXI OPERATIONS AND IfM LOOKING AT THE RECORD£ AND SOME AIRPORTS DO AND MOST DON'T. . . .THE SMALL PRIVATE ONES. . ,THEYfRE PULLING A NUMBER OUT OF THE AIR AND THAT' S WHAT I'M WRITING DOWN. IT MAY BE VALID, IT MAY BE I3VALID. BUT WHO ELSE OTHER THAN THE PERSON WHO IS THERE AND WHO IS OP&RATITIG THAT AIRPORT IS GOING TO KNOW? ED REEVES. . .WELL:, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THAT FIGURE IS VERY LOW. I CAN SHOW YOU REC&IPTS WITH THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I DO THAT MUCH ALMOST WITH THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD IN A YEAR. P. POMERANZ. .YOU KNOW, THIS SUGGESTS TO ME IF THE NUMBERS THAT ARE SHOWN ARE OUT OF PROPORTION, THEN PERHAPS LAND SIDE DEVELOPMENT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT ALSO. LORIN BIRD. . .WP HAD ONE OTHER COMMENT, I GUESS SUMMARIZES THE ONE. . .ON PAGE 59 OF THE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT ARE PROPOSED FOR THE AIRPORT AND I GUESS GIVEN WHATIS BEEN STATED REGARDING THE COST OF LAND. THERE ARE STANDARDS THAT REQUIRE LESS LAND THAN Tlrz- STANDARDS ON PAGE 59 WOULD SHOW. .THERE: ARE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT ARE APPLICABLE TO AIRPORTS THAT WONVT ACCOMMO- DATE ANY AIRPLANES OVER 14500 LBS. AND WHAT THE CHANGE WOULD BE. LIKE IT SAYS, THE FIRST ONE, RUNWAY CENTER LINE TO PARALLEL TAXI WAYS, IT SAYS 225 FEET. WELL, THE DESIGN STANDARDS, IF YOU ARENIT GOING TO AC- COMMODATE AIRCRAFT OVER 12,500 LBS. IS LIKE 150 FOOT SEPARATION AND THE BUILDING RESTRICTION LINE WOULD BE 125 FEET INSTEAD OF 2.00. AND WHAT TH9 END RESULT MAY BE, IS THAT IT WILL PROBABLY CUT DOWN THE AMOUNT OF LAND THAT YOU HAVE TO ACQUIRN FOR THE AIRPORT IN ORDER TO HAVE A BUILD ING RESTRICTIONLINE, NOW IT'S 75 FEET CLOSER IN AND I THINK A LOT OF TH SO WILL CLOSE, SO THAT SHOULD BE PURSUED. PETER POMERANZ. . .WELL, LORIN gUOTED AC150/5300-4B. . . . . . . . . . .AND THE STANDARDS ARE MUCH MATCH SMALLER, CONSIDERABLY SMALLER. PAUL PUCKLI. . .ANY COMMENTS, QUESTION? IF NOT, I SUPPOSE WE CAN ADJOURN THE MEETING. LIKE I SAID, GET ANY COMMENTS IN WRITING THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE. PETER POMERANZ. . .DO YOU FORESEE ANY HELICOPTER USE? PAUL PUCKLI. . .IT' S SOMETHING WE DIDNIT GET INTO AND WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. THERE PROBABLY WILL BE SOME HELICOPTERS, YES. DAVE. . . . . , DAT, SPOHN. . .SURE, THEREIS HELICOPTERS USED IN TOWN NOW THAT ARE USE FOR AGRICULTURE. . . . . . . . . ? THERE MAY NOT BE ANY AGRICULTURE LEFT AFTER A COUPLE MORE YEARS. DAVE SPOHIT. . .WELL, THEY NEED A FACILITY AS WELL AS FIXED WING. IT ALL COMES UNDER THE DEFINITION OF AIRCRAFT. PETXR POMERANZ. . .YOU ALSO PROPOSED ONE GAS TANK. DO YOU FORESEE ONLY ONE KIND OF FUEL? PAUL PUCKLI. . .WE WERE LOOKING AT JUST AV-GAS. PETER POMERANZ. . .NO JET FUEL OR ANY OTHER KINDS? DAVE; SPOHN. . .THAT WOULD BE 100 LOW-LEAD WHICH IS THE FUEL THAT MORIE AIRPORTS OFFER. ED REEVES. . .ACTUALLY, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE TWO TYPES OF FUEL, AND NOT SO MUCH JET FUEL TO START WITH BUT AUTOMOTIVE FUEL. BECAUSE AUTOMOTIVE FUEL SEEMS TO BE THE UP AND COMING THING NOW FOR LIGHT GENERAL AVIATION AIRPLANES. DAVE SPOHN. . .THAT'S TRUE. THERE ARE QUITE A FEW AIRPLANES THAT HAVE THE STC TO USE IT. AND VERY FEW AIRPORTS THAT HAVE THE ACCOMMODATION OF SELLING AUTOMOBILIC GAS FOR AIRCRAFT. RUTH OLIVA. . .WHY HAVE THEY CHANG3D OVER, DAVE? DAVS SPOHN. . .AVAILABILITY AND PRICE. FIRST OF ALL, THF OLDER AIRCRAFT OP- ERATE ON 80 OCTANE FUEL AND THE NEW AIRCRAFT OPERATE ON 100 OCTANE LOW-LEAD. AND THE OLDER AIRCRAFT DO NOT RUN VERY WELL ON THE NEW FUEL. IN FACT, THEY BURN THE VALVES AND ITfS DETRIMENTAL TO THE ENGINE. SO THE AUTOMOBILE GAS IS MUCH CLOSER TO THE OCTANE RATING THAN THE AVIATION FUV;L. THERE HAVE BEEN EXPERIMENTS BY THE EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT ASSOC. PROVING IT. THEY GET WHAT THEY CALL A STC, WHICH IS A CERTIFICATE TO ALLOW TF}E AIRCRAFT TO USE THE AUTOMOBILE FUEL. THE PRESENT MOVE IS TO HAVE IT BECOME AVAILABLE. THE DIFFERENCE; IN PRICE IS DRAMATIC. AUTO1: MOBILE FUEL IS $1.20 AND AIRCRAFT FUEL IS ' 2.00. AND OF COURSE, TFE RE'S A LOT OF TAX INVOLVED WITH THF AIRCRAFT FUFL. THAT EXTRA 80 CENTS IS TO PAY FOR THE USE OF THE AIRSPACE UP THERE, MAINTAINING ALL THE FACIL- ITIES AND THE USE THERE-OF. PETER POMERANZ. . . . . . . . . . . . . .FUEL, BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY KNOW. DAVE: SPOHN. . .YES. SO THIERFL I B A LOT INVOLVED THERE. BUT THdRE ARE QUITE A�' F9W OF THE OLDER AIRCRAFT THAT ARE USING THE 80 OCTANE AND THE TYPE OF AIRCRAFT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BTLOW 12,500 WILL PROBABLY BE IN THAT CATEGORY AND COULD USE THAT AUTOMOBILE FUEL. THAT'S THE CESSNA 1821S, 1501S. PETER POMERANZ. . .ON YOUR PARKING LOT. HOW MANY CARS DO YOU THINK . . . . . . . . ? PAUL PUCKLI. . .LET'S GO BACK AND TAKE A LOOK. . . . . . . . . . . .THAT WILL INCREASE IT. BUT BASED ON THE GENERAL. . . . . . . . . .. PETER POMERANZ. . .YES, YES. RUTH OLIVA. . .DOES OUR PLANNING BOARD, HAVE YOU CHECKED WITH THEM? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY EVEN HAVE ANY SPECIFICATIONS AS TO HOW MANY PARKING SPOTS FOR AN AIRPORT. PER WHAT. PAUL PUCKLI. . .THESE ARE FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS. RUTH OLIVA. . .THSSE ARP FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS. PAUL PUCKLI. . .FOR SIZE AND CRITERIA. RUTH OLIVA. . .BUT THEN YOU STILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH ANYTHING OUR PLAP;NING BOARD. . . PAUL PUCKLI. . .WELL, I THINK IT PROBABLY WILL COMPLY, BUT THEY DO HAVE A COPY OF THIS REPORT. LORIN BIRD. . . AND REMEMBER, THE RECOMMENDED REQUIREMENTS, AR„ NOT PER SP REQUIREMENTS, LIKE A RECOMMENDED STANDARD. PETER POMERANZ. . .YOU HAV9 THE NUMBER OF AIR TAXI OPERATIONS AND THEY WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME, HOW MANY PLANES. . . . PAULPUCKLI. . . . . . . . . . . LOR-1W HIxD;. .. . : . . . .OVER ON PAGE 224, ON TKS-BUS ACTIVITY WE'`HA-a.bAN`;OP— FRATOR OUT HERE WHO SUPPLI19S THREE ROUND TRIPS DAILY TO NEW YORK CITY FROM THh . . . . .IN GRZiNPORT. RUTH OLIVA, OH, YtS. I 'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. WE HAVE; SUNRISE BUS. DAVM SPOHN. . .THAT WAS CORRECTED IN THIS. RUTH OLIVA. . .NOT IN HERE. N09 NO MAJOR. . . I HAVE: THAT T00. LORIN BIRD. . .IT STATES THAT NO MAJOR BUS SERVICE. . RUTH OLIVA. . .I HAVE THAT TOO . SCD :AF^PL.`/TtANSP. DIV. . .YOU PICKED UP THE LOCAL ONES BUT YOU HAVE. . . . . . . STARTING IN 182 AND THEY ARE DOING VtRY WELL. RUTH OLIVA. . .EXTREMELY WELL. PAUL PUCKLI. . .IS THAT NEXT TO . . . . . . .GREENPORT? RUTH OLIVA. . .YES. SCD OF PL./TRANSP. DIV. . . .STOPS IN GREENPORT AND RIV.rRHEAD AND THEN. . . . . .STOP; PAUL PUCKLI. . .THREE TIMES A DAY. SCD OF PL./TRANSP. DIV. . .IT'S UP TO THREE AND SOMETIMES FOUR NOW. RUTH OLIVA. . .AND SOMETIMES MORE THAN ONE. BUS GOING BACK AND FORTH TOO. SCD OF PL./TRANSP. DIV. . . IT STARTLED WITH A VAN TYPE VEHICLE AND NOW HE'S UP TO AN OVER THE ROAD. . . . . . . . . . .SO IT HAS A SIDE EFFECT IN THAT PEOPLE DO HAVE ACCESS FROM. . . . . . . SCD OF PL./TRANSP. DIV. . .THER&I S ANOTHER FIRM THAT JUST START0 . . . . .REGU- LATIONS THAT . . . . . . .RIGHTS FROM THP NORTH FORK. LORIN BIRD. . . IS THAT WINSTON? DAVE SPOHN. . .YES, ITIS WI NSTON, YOU'RE RIGHT. SCD OF PL./TRANSP. DIV. . .DUE TO THE F`lDERAL DE-REGULATION, BYPASSED ALL THE STATE AND LOCAL REQUIREMENTS AND WE WILL MAKE STOPS AT LAGUARDIA . PAUL PUCKLI. . .WEfR9 NOT WORRIED ABOUT. . . . . . SCD OF PL./TRANSP. DIV. . . I THINK IT'S NO" OF AN ON CALL, I 'M NOT SURE. . . . . FRANK BPAR. . .THE TOWN PLANNING BOARD HAS BEEN MENTIONED. TO WHAT .EXTENT.. IF ANY, NAVE YOU HEARD WITH THE TOWN PLANNING BOARD ON THIS? PAUL PUCKLI. . .WELL. IT' S BEIEN PA? T OF THIS COMMITTEE. I'M SURPRISED NOBODY IS HERE FROM THE PLANNING BOARD. RUTH OLIVA. . .THAT'S TRUE. BITCH LATHAM WAS. . . . . PAUL PUCKLI. . .THLRE WERE TWO PEOPLE HERE LAST TIM,3p AND THEY HAVE COPIES OF THE REPORT. THIS W9EK WHEN I'M HERE, I'M GOING TO BE SITTING DOWN WITH THEM, GOING OVER MAPS AND . . . . . . . . .SOME SENSE. TO DATE WE HAVE NOT BEEN INW LVED WITH THEM BUT THEY HAVE BEEN INVOLV&D WITH THE MEsETINGS AND DAVE SPOHN, . . .THEY ARE BOTH OUT OF TOWN TODAY. PETER POMERANL. . .SOME OF THE OTHER YOU. .PAGE 624 AS I RECALL. ORIENTATION AND . . . . . . .SHOW. . . . PAUL PUCKLI . . .YES. BASED ON THE WIN. . . . .AND WE LOOKED AT THE LOCAL READINGS AT JAMESPORT. RUTH OLIVA. . .JUST BE PREPARED WHEN YOU DO YOUR SITE SELECTION, FOR MAJOR OPPOSITIOP�. BECAUSE WE TOOK THE PRELIMINARY MAP FROM THE MASTER PLAN AROUND TO EACH OF Tli;u' HAMLETS AND THERE WERE STARS IN A COUPLF6 OF DIFFER— ENT PLACmS AND THF PEOPLE CAME OUT IN DROVES THAT THEY DON'T WANT AN AIRPORT. FRANK BEAR. . .AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, AS I UNDERSTAND, THE CURRENT IDEA FOR A TOWN PLAN DOES NOT INCLUDE AN AIRPORT. DAVE SPOHN. . .IfD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT. .LIKE COUNTER—POINT, O.K.? FROM'.-THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, ARTICLE XIV. PARAGRAPH 2.1.9. "THF LEGISTIVE FIND— INGS AND PURPOSE. THE CONTINUING DEVELOPMENT AND THE RAPID GROWTH OF AIft .TRANSPORTATION AND THE USE OF AIRCRAFT FOR VARIOUS PURPOSES, BOTH COMMERCIAL AND PRIVATE, DURING THE PAST TWENTY YEARS HAS SUBSTANTIALLY CONTRIBUT&D TO THE ECONOMIC BETTERMENT, WELL—BEING AND RECREATIONAL ENJOYMENT OF THE PEOPLE OF THiy STATE. " THATIS 1970. FRANK BSAR. . . . . . . . . I THINK: DAVE SPOHN. . .WHAT? FRANK BEAR. . .THOSE TERMS NEED A LITTLE BIT OF DEFINITION, I THINK. DAVE SPOHN. . .WELL, THIS IS THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW AND IT REFERS TO AIRPORTS. IT'S A MATTER OF RECORD. PETER POMERANZ. . .PAUL, I THINK YOU DID A NICE JOB ON THIS FIRST PHASE I RE— PORT, CAN YOU GIVE US AN IDEA OF THE TIME TABLE THAT YOUIRE TALKING • r 2� ABOUT AND WHAT NEXT STEPS YOU'LL BE TAKING. PAUL PUCKLI. . .WHAT WEtRE DOING THIS WEEK., IS WE' RE GOING TO BE SITTING DOWN WITH THE TOWN PLANNING BOARD AND GOING THROUGH SOME MAPS AND TRYING TO AT LEAST NARROW DOWN THE NUMBER OF SITES, AND THEN THE NEXT PORTION OF THE STUDY WILL BE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE SITES AND, . . .IN THE HOPES OF FINDING A SITE THAT WILL WORK. PETER POMERANZ. . .WILL YOU BE MAKING AVAILABLE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY OR ANYTHIN LIKE THAT; PAUL PUCKLI. . . YES, WE t R& GOING TO PROBABLY GET THRSE FINAL SITES AND WE'LL HAVE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS OF THOSE THREE SITES. AND THE TIME FRAME WE' RE LOOKING AT.RIGHT NOW IS SEPTEMBER SO WE'RE PROBABLY AT SOMETHING ON THE ORDER OF NOVEMBER, TO HAVE SOME SITES PICKED OUT. SO THE NEXT MEET- ING WILI. BE TO DISCUSS THOSE SITES AND WE' RE THINKING NOVEMBER NOW. LORIN BIRD. . .DO YOU,MAY STILL RE-ORIENT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE OPEN SITES, YOU MAY STILL RP'-ORIENT THE RUNWAY SLIGHTLY TO FIT IT IN . PAUL PUCKLI . . .OH, YES. IT'S NOT CUT AND DRIED. WE JUST NEiDED SOMETHING TO GO WITH. RUTH OLIVA. . .WILL WE GO OUT ON INSPECTIONS TOO, OR JUST OURSELVES OR AS A GROUP? PAUL PUCKLI. .,&S .PART OF THIS MEETING,THERE'LL BE AN INSPECTION. WE'LL GO OUT AND TAKES A LOOK AT THE RECOMMENDED SITE AND MAYBE ALL THREE SITES. AND THE F.A.A. HAS TOLD US THAT THEY WANT THIS INSPECTION AS PART OF OUR SCOPE OF SERVIC2S. AND NEW YORK STATE HAS ASKED FOR IT TOO, SO THERE WILL BE AN ACTUAL ON-SITE INSPECTION. PROBABLY THE WAY TO DO IT IS TO HAVE: THS MEETING FIRST, AND THEN BREAK FOR LUNCH AND THEN EVERYBODY TAKE A LOOK AT THE SITE. SO WE'LL PLAN SOMETHING LIKE THAT. FRANK BEAR. . .CAN I COME, DAVE? DAVE SPOHN. . .SURE, WHY NOT? PAUL PUCKLI. . . IF THERE AR19 NO OTHER QUESTIONS, THEN I GUESS WE'LL ADJOURN AND I'LL SEE EVERYBODY AROUND TOWN OR IN NOVEMBER. THANK YOU. MINUTES TRANSCRIBED BY JEAN SPOHN FROM TAPES RECORDED DAVID SPOHN