HomeMy WebLinkAboutLL-1999 #52
T OCaI j Law FL~tng !EW YORKSCATEDEPARTMENT OFSTATE
L 41 STATE STREET ALBANY. NY 12Z 1
(Use this form to file a local law with the Secretary of Sfate)'
Tent of law should be given as amended.' Do not include matter being eliminated and do not use
italics or underlining to indicate new matter.
l~~fuG~C
bh n of----------------------------- Southold----------------------------------------------
Town
LOCAL LAW NO. 52 OF THE YEAR 1999.
A LOCAL LAW TO CHANGE THE ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION OF THE PARCEL
OF PROPERTY KNOWN AS Suffolk Count-v Tax Map (SCTM) # 1000-055.00-05.00-012.002
FROM THE
(B) GENERAL BUSINESS ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION TO THE
(RO) RESIDENTIAL OFFICE ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE TOWN BOARD OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD AS FOLLOWS:
Please see attached.
r ~
(If additional space is needed, attach pages the same size as this sheet, and number eaeh•)
lit
r
LOCAL LAW NO. 52 OF THE YEAR 1999.
A LOCAL LAW TO CHANGE THE ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION OF THE PARCEL
OF PROPERTY KNOWN AS Suffolk County Tax Map (SCTM) # 1000-055.00-05.00-012.002
FROM THE
(B) GENERAL BUSINESS ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION TO THE
(RO) RESIDENTIAL OFFICE ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE TOWN BOARD OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD AS FOLLOWS:
Y
Section I. Legislative Intent
Consistent with our comprehensive land use plan and our established objectives and goals as
reflected by the existing zoning patterns within the Town, and based upon our current County Route
48 Land use study as well as numerous land use studies and plans developed heretofore, we hereby
determine that it is necessary and desirable to revise and amend the zoning designation applicable to
the parcel identified herein as well as other lands; thus, we hereby identify and adopt the following
overall themes of (1) Preservation of Farmland and Agriculture; (2) Preservation of Open and
Recreational Space; (3) Preservation of the Rural, Cultural, Commercial and Historical Character of
the Hamlets and Surrounding Areas; (4) Preservation of the Natural Environment; which derive
from the shared vision held by residents and local public officials of the Town and which are
intended to foster a strong economy and which encourage and preserve the existing high quality of
life, as more specifically set forth herein below:
1. Preservation of Farmland and Agriculture
Farmland is a valuable and dynamic industry in the Town of Southold. The open
farmlands are not only highly cherished for their economic value, but for the scenic vistas they provide.
The open space and scenery created by farmland additionally contributes to the quality of life of the
residents, while promoting tourism and recreation.
2. Preservation of Open and Recreational Space
The Town of Southold relies heavily upon its scenic beauty and open landscapes for
recreation, clean air and water, as well as for its attraction to tourists and recreation-sackers. The
Town has attracted many second homeowners because of its "natural resources, abundance of
open space , fauns, picturesque villages, and the ever-present waterfront" (Master Plan Update,
1985). Due to this open space, the Town has a tremendous development potential. Bleak pictures
have been painted in a few documents, warning of strip-type development, suburbansprawl and
water supply issues. The preservation of open and recreational space is not only aesthetic, but also
a necessity for the present and future needs of the Town.
3. Preservation of the Rural, Cultural, Commercial and Historical Character of the
Hamlet: and S
'tire k 1v wned for its ttmalz:cutttaral, o
character. 'tLts
2 A x of
Town residents, ilye oas i
are keeping growth in the existing hamlet centers and preserving the enhancing the surrounding nual areas.
Additionally, the Master Plan Update recommends the provision for "a community of residential hamlets
that are comprised of a variety of housing opportunities, commercial, service and cultural activities, set in
an open or rural atmosphere and supported bya diversified economic base (including agriculture, marine
commercial and seasonal recreation activities)."
4. Preservation of the Natural Environment
Accommodating "growth and change within the Town without destroying its traditional
economic base. the natural environment of which that base rests, and the unique character
and the way of life that defines the Town" is of utmost importance" (Ground Watershed
Protection and Water Supply Management Strategy). The Master Plan Update
recommends preservation of the Town's natural environment from wetlands to
woodlands and to "achieve a land use pattern that is sensitive to the limited indigenous
water supply and will not degrade the subsurface water quality.
The outstanding needs enumerated below are the culmination of careful comparison of the intent and
objectives of the town (as stated in past land use plans and studies) and the currently existing conditions
along the County Route 48 corridor. These needs reflect the past and present vision of the Town and the
work that still needs to be done due to the proximity of County Route 48 to the hamlet commercial centers
and to avoid potentially conflicting development strategies for such areas. These outstanding needs we find
exist throughout the Town and are specifically identified as follows:
1) to provide-for viable land use development at levels of intensities which are sensitive to subsurface
water quality and quantity
2) To maintain and strengthen hamlet centers as the focus of commercial, residential, and cultural
activity;
3) To preserve the open, agricultural and nual character of areas outside of the hamlet centers;
4) to provide for a variety of housing opportunities for citizens of different incomes and age levels;
5) to enhance the opportunities for pedestrian-friendiv shopping;
6) to continue to the support of the Town's agricultural economy;
7) to maximize the Town's natural assets, including its coastal location and agricultural base, by
balancing commercial, residential and recreational uses;
8) to strengthen the Town's marine-recreational and marine-commercial activities;
9) to encourage the preservation of parkland and public access to the waterfront;
10) to support tourism by maintaining and strengthening the Town's assets that foster a tourist trade,
namely hamlet center businesses, historic heritage, architecture, a sense of place, of rural and open
chatacter, :agriculture, and marine activities;
11) to Preserve prime farmland; aril encourage the diversification of agriculture;
12) to preserve the historic, cultural, architectural and archaeological resources of the Town,
13) to ensure visual quality of hamlet centers,
14) to 'encourage appropriate land uses both inside and out of hamlet centers;
15) to promote balanced economy and tax base;
16) to preserve the integrity of the Town's vegetative habitats, including freshwater wetlands and
woodlands.
C,6~
Section 2. Enactment
Therefore, based upon the aforementioned goals and identified needs of the Town and upon our
consideration of the recommendations and comments of our Planning Board.. the Suffolk County Planning
Commission: our planning consultant (CCG) and the public comment taken at the public hearing and
otherwise. we hereby change the zoning district designation for the parcel known as
SCTM# look -01 R. Wa (and as more fully described
herein below) from the
( ) G 1 nZAL NASA O 'S zoning district designation to the
(Zs I Dc7~ITq LI C zoning district designation.
SCTM #1000-055.00-05.00_012.002
ALL that certain plot, piece or parcel of land, with the buildings and improvements thereon
erected situate, lying and being in the Town of Southold, County of Suffolk, State of New York,
i - more particularly bounded and described as follows: 1> r
BEGINNING at a monument set on the southerly side of Middle Road at the northeasterly
corner, now or formerly of Barezak and the northwest' corner the premises herein described;
THENCE along the southerly side of N fiddle Road two courses as follows:
(1) Northeasterly at a curve to the left having a radius of 2, 325.01 feet, a distance of 241.62 feet;
(2) Southeasterly on a curve to the right having a radius of 67.23 feet; a distance of 158.53 feet to
the westerly line of Boisseau Avenue;
THENCE along the westerly line of Boisseau Avenue south 2 degrees 38 minutes 20 seconds
west 163.75 feet;
THENCE along other land of the party of the first part south 81 degrees 16 minutes 50 sec. West
278.95 feet to land or formerly of Barczak;
THENCE north 8 degrees 57 minutes 30 seconds west along land now or formerly of Barczak
111.54 feet to the point of BEGINNING.
i
Section 3.
The zoning map as adopted by section 100-21 of the Town Code of the Town of Southold is
hereby amended to reflect the within change of zoning district designation for said parcel.
Section 4.
THIS LOCAL LAW SHALL TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY UPON FILING WITH THE
SECRETARY OF STATE.
(Complete the certtueation in the paragraph that applies to t.-= filing of this local law and
strike out that which is not applicable.)
1. (Final adoption by local legislative body only.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No. of 1999
of the (0d,(Aty)(MY, own)(DQiV46) of Southold_ _ was duly passed by the
own Hoard______________ on_ Mber__19 19 99, in accordance with the applicable provisions of law.;
(Name ofLeaisfalive Body) _
2. (Passage by. local legislative body with approval, no disapproval or repassage after disapproval
by the Elective Chief Executive Officer*.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No- of 19------
of the (County)(City)(Tbwn)(Village) of was duly passed by the
on 19 and was (approved)(not approved) (repassed after
(Name of Lc&larive Body)
disapproval) by the and was deemed duly adopted on 19----,
(Elective Chief Esecudw Officer-) _
in accordance with the applicable provisions of law.
3. (Final adoption by referendum.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No. of 19-----
of the (County)(City)(Town)(Village) of was duly passed by th<
on 19---- , and was (approved)(not approved)(repassed afte
(Name of Le;isklive Body)
disapproval) by the------------------------------------------------- on--------- 19----. Such local law was submitte(
(Etecave Chief Executive Officer)
to the people by reason of a (mandatory)(permissive) referendum, and received the affirmative vote of a majority of
the qualified electors voting thereon at the (general)(special)(annual) election held on 19---- , in
accordance with the applicable provisions of law.
4. (Subject to permissive referendum and final adoption because no valid petition was filed requesting
referendum.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No. of 19-
of the (County)(City)(lbwn)(Village) of was duly.passed by t
on 19---- , and was (approved)(not approved)(repassed of
(Name of LesW-dve Body)
disapproval) by the----; on 19 Such local law was subject
(Ekcave CWExcc"ve Orsicer•)
permissive referendum and no valid petition requesting such referendum was filed as of 19.--- , in
accordance with the applicable provisions of law.
• Elective Chief Executive Officer means or Includes the chief executive officer of a county: elected O"wide basis ort if thane be none, the chairperson of the county legislative body, the mayor of a city or village,
the supervisor of a town where such officer is vested with the power to approve or veto local laws or ordinr
(2)
5. (City local law concerning Charter revision proposed by petition,)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No. of 19------
of the City of having been submitted to referendum pursuant to the provisions of
section (36)(37) of the Municipal Home Rule Law, and having received the affirmative vote of a majority of the
qualified electors of such city voting thereon at the (special)(general) election held on------- 19----,
became operative.
6. (County local law concerning adoption of Charter.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No- of 19......
of the County of State of New York, having been submitted to the electors
at the General Election of November 19---- - pursuant to subdivisions 5 and 7 of section 33 of the
Municipal Home Rule Law, and having received the affirmative vote of a majority of the qualified electors of the cit-
ies of said county as a unit and a,majority of the qualified electors of the towns of said county considered as a unit
voting at said general election, became operative.
(If any other authorized form of final adoption has been followed, please provide an appropriate certification.)
I further certify that I have compared the preceding local law with the original on file in this office and that the same
is a correct transcript therefrom and of the whole of such original local law, and was finally adopted in the manner in-
dicated in paragraph----- 1-----, above.
Clerk of the ty tc&ladve body, City, To or Village Clerk
or officer designated by local legislative body
Elizabeth A. Neville, Town Clerk
(Seal) Date: /".9 h9
(Certification to be executed by County Attorney, Corporation Counsel, Town Attorney, Village Attorney or
other authorized attorney of locality.)
STM OF N13W YORK
aoaN YOF SUFFOLK
I, the undersigned, hereby certify that the foregoing local law contains the correct text and that all proper proceeding
have been had or taken for the enactment of the local law annexed hereto.
signature
Mar C ilson, Esq., Assistant Town Attorney
Gregory F Yakaboski Ems}, , Town Attorney
Title
~dGl~(O~f
of Southold -
Date: t ,23~cf q
(3)
i i
F.
SPECIAL MEETING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD
OCTOBER 5, 1999
9:00 A.M.
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON PROPOSED ZONING MAP CHANGES ON ROUTE 48
IN THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD.
Present: Supervisor Jean W_ Cochran
Councilwoman Alice J. Hussie
Justice Louisa P. Evans
Councilman William D. Moore
Councilman John M. Romanelli
Councilman Brian G. Murphy
Town Clerk Elizabeth A. Neville
Town Attorney Gregory F. Yakaboski
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: These properties are located at Route 48. Bill,
will you read the lot number and the owner of the property?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: This section is 55-5-2.3 Gary Rempe and Wife
property, 55-5-4 Linda Bertani and Others, 55-5-5 property of Audrey
Berglund, 55-2-24.2 Frank Field Corp, 55-2--23 Madeleine Schlafer,
55-5-10 George Penny IV and Robert Boger, 55-5-11 Joann Rizzo,
55-5-12.2 Donald Tuthill and Wife, 55.5-5-9.1 Patricia Miloski_
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: At this time we offer to you to address the Town
Board on anything pro or con that you would like to share with us. Is
there anyone that would like to address the Town Board? Linda?
LINDA BERTANI: My name is Linda Bertani. Ten years ago my
husband, John and I, and Bob and Ann Guarriello purchased a small
piece of General Business zoned property on Youngs Avenue in Southold.
The reason for the purchase was two fold. First and foremost we purchased
it as an investment in our futures and our children, some of whom are
working in the family businesses that we have. Secondly, the Town Board
frowned upon businesses with several trucks in driveways, and other
business related materials stored in the yard of home based businesses in
residential neighborhoods. Since my husband, a general contractor, had
trucks, tools, ladders, and other building materials, and Mr_ Guarriello,
an electrician had trucks, tools, ladders and other electrical materials we
looked for and purchased a piece of General Business zoned property. We
went about fixing up the existing house on the property, building three
pg2-PH
garages behind it, and fencing it in, so that our trucks and work related
items could be legally placed and out of sight of our new business
neighbors. My husband uses this property mainly for storage. Mr.
Guarriello actually runs his business from his office there. I have a
recommendation to the Town Board from someone up island, who has no
vested interest in Southold Town or it's business community, to rezone our
property from General Business to Residential Office it becomes fact the
following will happen. First, you will have a non-conforming business on
this property, which we do not want to do. We like being legal. That is
why we purchased the property in the first place. No one has bothered us
there. We bother no one, and we felt as though we are being good
ei bors
n gh by taking our work related items and business out our residential
neighborhood that we live in. Secondly, most important to us, what
happened to our investment in the future. Last month we had property
appraised by a certified appraiser at General Business and at Residential
Office. The value of the property would drop significantly. Who will
compensate us for this lot? You have money to purchase farm property, so
why don't you take some of that money and compensate the property
owners' for their losses, if there property is upzoned? With a stroke of
your pens you take away our property rights, and ten years worth of hard
work. Please don't do it_
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN_ Thank you, Linda. Anyone else like to address
the Town Board? Linda, can we have a copy? Anyone that has a prepared
statement, can we either make a copy, or give us the one you have? It
helps in translation of the minutes- Thank you.
MADELEINE SCHLAFER_ Good morning. My name is Madeleine Schlafer.
My husband :Cordon and I own 1670 House, Lot #055-2-23, a furniture and
home accessory store. We bought our business thirteen years ago known
formerly in the community as Wedgewood Shop. It was opened in 1959 as a
business forty years ago. We are very upset to find we are being changed
to RO. We chose to call the store the 1670 House because it is registered as
a Southold Historic House. It originally stood where the American Legion
Hall is, known then as the Josh Bordon house. From the outside today
you would never realize the furniture displayed inside, because we protect
the integrity of the historic house at our expense. We built an extension to
the rear. Actually John Bertani did this for us. Even at the time we
realized it would have been better if we had the building to the side, where
we could have had large windows with people going by. We didn't want to
ruin the charm of the house. Other people have said, take out the front
two windows. Well, we wouldn't do that either, because again, it is a
historic house, and we were protecting to the detriment. We have to
advertise. Looks are deceiving. We have eleven, twelve rooms inside.
People go by, and they don't know what we are about. When they do come
in everyone is always shocked to see what we have. We preserved the
visual and historic character of the town, and the surrounding area. We
ask that you do not penalize us and our future. We have preserved the
vista. 1 would like to present a picture. This is what it looked like in
1959_ This is what it looks like today. We have gone to the Planning Board
thinking of putting a small addition to the side, and they want to put
blacktop, white lines, and modernize it. Well, of course not, we want to
keep it gravel. We want to keep historic. So, we please ask that you
v
pg3-PH
would consider what we have tried to preserve and stop in and see what we
are about. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board?
Yes, sir?
GORDON SCHLAFER: My name is Gordon Schlafer, and I am the
husband of Madeleine Schlafer of the 1670 House- One of things that
bothers me about this whole thing is that it is seems to be presented in the
newspapers and everything as a them against us syndrome. It is like it
has got be pristine, Route 48 a horrible Route 58. 1 don't think that is
way. I see these people write into the paper. One woman writes in she is
sick and tired of these greedy businessmen on the North Road. She says,
there is more of us than there are more of them. Now, this is the kind of
syndrome this thing has come down to. I don't think you people are out
? there relieve us of all our property, and I don't think that is route you
really want to take. The way it is presented reminds of the way they do
things in Washington when they want to cut the fat out of some bloated
program. They present it to people like us. Sir, would you like see this
program cut, and the people that benefit their children starve, or would
you rather see it passed? Oh, I would rather see the kid starve. You
know? This is the way this thing is, comes across. 'I would like to ask you
a question. You correct me. I am under the impression that we can not
sell our business or our piece of property, our store, unless someone is in
the same business. Is that correct?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Greg, will you answer that, please?
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: If you have a non-conforming use? If it
became non-conforming?
GORDON SCHLAFER: Yes_
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: It is an intensity question. If you
continue that use, a new person, say, John bought, you can continue that
use, and a less intense use, when it becomes more non-conforming.
GORDON SCHLAFER: Well, let me give you a answer to that from us,
the way it concerns us. I have been in this business since 1951, and I am
71 years old. I am in retail. I was a wholesale representative for 27 years
on Long Island, and I will tell you there has never been a furniture store
business sold. So, that is like us trying to hit the New York State
Lottery, so that wipes that out for us. Okay? We are not young. We are
thinking about retiring in the somewhat near future. I mean, I don't want
to go from the furniture store to the funeral parlor without passing go.
What you are doing is this piece of property we have, I mean, it is a house
is not livable, number one. It has a 50 by 50 big empty space in the back.
It is next to a garage on the thoroughfare. Now, who is going to buy that?
You tell me_ Nobody. We have over $350,000 invested in that piece of
property. We won't get. $50,000 for it. I don't think it is right. I don't
think it is fair- I was going to say I don't think it un-American, but the
way things are in this country with the rules and regulations and the
bureaucracy maybe that is what we have become. You know? That's all
have to say- ,
t f
pg4-PH
k
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Can I just expand a little bit on what the Town
Attorney said as far as your question goes? There is a notion out there
that if a parcel becomes non-conforming the only thing you can sell it for
is the use that you were using it for, in your instance the furniture store-
That is not true, because what the law is and what the Code says,
obviously that use can continue from here on out- If you gave the business
to your kids or you sold it to somebody else, but you can also shift it to
another use, which under the Code at the time would be non-conforming as
long as it is of a use that is similar type of intensity, so the example
becomes..well, let's assume that a restaurant generated more traffic and
required more parking than your business does. That would be a more
intense use. You, couldn't shift over to a restaurant, but you could change
from a retail sales of furniture to some other retails sales that have a
similar kind of parking requirement, use requirement. I think that is
commonly forgotten. You are so limited in the possible uses. I don't know
if it makes you feel any better or not. I only meant to say, it is. not as
narrow a limitation, as people..
'r
CORDON SCHLAFER: It scares me, let me tell.
i
' COUNCILMAN MOORE: I respect that. Even if it goes to RO a
non-conforming use can continue, and it can change as long as the
intensity is no greater than what the prior non-conforming use was. You
don't automatically shift over to RO. If the retail business continues on
that property that can continue.
CORDON SCHLAFER: Who determines the intensity?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: I am telling that is how it works. It is not
anywhere as narrowing as-.you may not like that answer, but it is not as
narrow as you may think.
CORDON SCHLAFER: The only thing I can tell it is a little better. The
only thing I can tell you is, you know, I read in the paper these greedy
businessman from Nassau, and they are coming out and they want to ruin
Route 48. Well, I haven't seen any of those people. All I see are people
who live here, and have families here, and trying to make a living,
investing their money and their time. I just think there is another way.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else?
PATRICIA MILOSKI: Good morning- My name is Pat Miloski. 1 own The
Country Store, and I am speaking today before the Town Board in response
to the public hearing, where you propose a zone change on my property,
Suffolk County Tax #055-5-9.1 from Business to RO. I especially request
that the present business zoning be kept as such as it has been for over
thirty years. I would like to be sure that my two letters to the Town Board
from August and September and any other correspondence be entered into
and become a part of this pubic hearing and any subsequent hearings to
follow. At this time I would like to also add that 2 Protest Petitions have
been filed with the Town Clerk's Office in regard to Town Law 265 on my
property. My parcel is unique in many ways due to the 2 buildings and the
setbacks from the road frontage, thereby not affecting the scenic vista,
and clearly fits under the zone of Business because of the lot size, the 2
r
pg5-PH
buildings, the setback and the current uses. The current CO's fit the
current Business Zoning. To change this Business zoning from B which it
has been for over 30 years would create a nonconforming business on a
nonconforming lot and would result in substantial financial hardship. Yes,
you have a purpose, but it makes sense to leave my property the way it
is. A mall business has to be allowed to grow within its permitted uses in
order to affectively serve their customers. My property was B zoned when
the structure was moved here in 1966. There is a shopping center that
border my property on the west side which is the same B zoning and a
shopping center across the street with the same B zoning all built after
this structure was here. The property on my east side is B zoned and the
next parcel to my east, a hair salon is also B zoned. Across the street
again "next to the shopping center is a auto service center and a furniture
gift shop also B zoned. The Southold Planning Board in 1988 had
designated my parcel and the adjoining parcel to my east as
Commercial/ Business zoned because the previous owner had a site plan
approval from all agencies involved including the State and County. In
addressing the County Rte 48 Corridor Report by Cramer and Associates,
the consulting company appears to have been arbitrary and capricious in
their proposal to rezone my property. On the south side of the street
where my property is located he defines the commercial strip as just the
shopping center and leaves me out, which across the street on the north
side he defines the commercial strip as shopping center and some adjacent
properties- How is this logical? My property is developed, active, vested in
use and should be kept Business zoned. My property does .not fit into any
other type of zoning other than B due to the lot size, the 2 buildings, and
the multi-business use. Even when you just look at the lot size and shape
on the map it appears to be part of the commercial strip. To change my
property from B to R,O would leave me with a non-conforming business on a
non-conforming lot with non-conforming uses. My property values would be
worth virtually nothing and if I ever did sell, you can imagine the
nightmare and legal fees it would be to get the permits and papers
necessary to please a title company or lender. I have a letter from King
Realty stating that changing my property from B to RO would dramatically
reduce the value of my property due to the less permitted uses allowed.
Please enter this letter into the record. The proposed zoning change would
create both financial and emotional hardships for myself both in the present
and the future. Therefore I cannot afford to not challenge the Town if you
change 'my zoning from B. Usually when a Board rezones, they try to
make an area conform to Code. Every town in Suffolk County is against
nonconforming uses and in this case Mr. Cramer is taking a conforming
area and making it non-conforming. Is this right? /mother area of Mr_
Cramer's report that seems to be in error is under the Section A called Site
Description, present land use in my Section 6 Southold. His report states
that this area is Urban and other and fails to fill in the blank under
other, and also does not check off the box Commercial. Why? Also, under
A, Site Description #16, his report claims there is a lake, pond, or
wetlands in this section. Where? And once again fails to fill in the blank.
How can one make decisions with incorrect information? I am a woman, sole
property of an established Country Store in this Hamlet Business
Community. This is my only asset. This business was established with my
own hands and finances. Economically, I cannot survi've or get my
investment back unless you keep my zoning as Business. All of us here
today look with optimism to the future. How can we allow an outside firm
t
pg6-PH
to propose changes to our vested community. I do not understand politics.
I do believe in traditional family values and integrity. I urge the Board to
do not what may be politically correct, but to do what is morally right-
once again request that the Town Board reject the proposal to rezone my
property and to keep it Business zoned as it has been for over 30 years.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board?
ANN MILOSKI: My name is Ann Miloski, Pat's mother-in-law. I am
member of the Master Zoning for Riverhead, a member of the Economic
Development Zone for the Grumman site. I am also a member of the North
Environmental Council. I believe in farmland preservation, land
development, and preserving the quality of life on the east end- I do not
understand though how you can consider rezoning this property, which is
in a business corridor. Next to and across from the shopping center, and
by doing so what benefit it would be to the family? When Pat wanted to buy
this property, which was at the time was an eyesore to the town, I asked
her how it was zoned? She said it was zoned Business since 1966. The
barn was rented out to a fence business and a woodworking business. Then
she said, well, maybe I should just get a job with retirement benefits.
said, you can buy the business property, fix it up, and make a viable
country type business. The equity in your business will increase, and when
you are ready to retire-you can sell it_ Little did I know the Cramer
Report would .pick businesses in the shopping corridor, and ask that it be
downzone. 1 implore the Town Board to leave this parcel business. It is
the right thing do_ Thank you_
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else like to address the
Town Board? I will take Mr. Penny, and then Mr_ Smith.
GEORGE PENNY IV: Good morning. My name is George Penny. My partner,
Bob Boger and I own a small parcel east of Pat Miloski's. At this time
pursuant to Section 265 in the Town Code. I would like to leave a petition
against this rezoning. I would also like to speak on behalf of my
neighbors, the Schlafers, and Pat Miloski to whom I sold the proprty.
did not sell it to the Schlafers, but to Pat Miloski who bought a
portion of our property. Three partners, Bob Boger, Billy Graseck,
and myself, all local residents Bought this property from Bill Smith back in
the early 80's. We did because things were bursting out here, and we did
it for the obvious reason, to have.frontage in a commercial area- I always
thought at sometime that with some good plan and a little bit of taste I
could put up an additional cabinet shop, not a cabinet shop but have a
store as an accent to my business, or perhaps another flooring center.
That was my thought. The economy fell apart. Things went kind of
shabby, and so we never really got into this investment idea. However we
spent $3,000 on filed site plan, which 1 have a copy of, and our parcel
which we still hold in conjunction with Pat Miloski's parcel we put in a
little country complex, we planned a country complex which would be very
similar to what you see in Aqueboque. I think it is where the ski shop
is, Arlene's Boutique and that type of thing. I don't know if the town has
ever seen this, although this document has been in the Planning Department
since the mid 80's, or late 801s. I believe the date is on there. It has
been certified, and ready to go. The only thing we need is water. We
already had some power. The power split off from LILCO, so that was not
t ~
pg7-PH
a problem. If you were to take Pat's property in particular, one of the
main problems that she is going to have is outside display. It is not
allowable on Residential Office. Also, if you go one step further, and you
read very carefully into the new proposed zoning you are going to find out
that Residential Office does not allow retail sales. That will affect both
of these retail businesses. I mean, I don't understand what is going on
here. Across the street from us is a service station. We abut a shopping
center. How will you expect this little half acre parcel, that I have
would have to take a house, and face the Main Road. You would have to
face County Route 48 for an exposure. We couldn't put in a site plan like
that, which could be cute, buildings could be cocked off to the side, and
parking for the entire complex would be taken care of very deeply. The
Town of Southold with all the years that I spent on the Board' has spent
hours and hours trying to talk people into doing projects. I know that they
spent hours and hours of time with the Planning Board, trying to get
people in Mattituck to develop their properties together, have one joint
driveway, and have joint parking lots, and to limit the amount of egress to
and from the traffic flow. This particular project which you see in front of
you does exactly. that. It passed the Planning Board. It went through all
the scrutiny of the town at the time, and believe you me it will prevent an
extra driveway, and some sort of residential structure, possibly a doctor, a
lawyer, an attorney, or somebody else. The only person that would possibly
want to put an office out there, because across from the service station
don't think you are going to see a whole lot of people that are going to
jumping to this site. However, as commercial it makes sense, but the way it
is going with Residential Office it is not going to do anybody any good.
The lot will remain vacant for a very long time. You won't be able to see
the neighbor on the next side, who happens to be a hair salon who is in
the same boat as I am. I would like to say something on her behalf, too. I
mean that is not a residential house. I don't believe there is anybody that
has lived there or has lived there. It has a personal service shop, etc.,
etc- That corridor was meant to be what it is. If you read the existing
Master Plan, and I pointed this out at an earlier hearing, high traffic
businesses were meant to be on certain areas of Route 48. 1 read every
word. I read everything that there could ever be read on the Master Plan,
Which I spent four something years working on it, we passed here in the
Town Hall. The two of them do not fit together. If you are change the
Master Plan say so, but to have a report like this, which comes out and
says jL(st the opposite of what the Master Plan says is immediate conflict to
anybody that has read both document- The Master Plan is not that old. It
still on the shelf, and if you going to amend it, do so, and let's do it
publicly, because this is no way to amend..this is not an amendment. This
is an addendum 'or something else, but it is not what it claims to be. One
point even further, and this really, this is the type of stuff that irked me
during, the last Master Plan sessions that we had when we go to public
hearings and public officials would stand in front of people, and said,
don't be afraid of being non-conforming. You are going to get all of this
great protection. Don't worry. Everything is going to be fine, and read in
you proposed legislation the part which still hasn't changed, and I have it
right here. A 'non-conforming containing a non-conforming use, which has
been damaged'by fire or other causes to the extent of more than 509, of it's
fair value shall not be repaired or rebuilt unless the use of such building
is changed from non-conforming use. Cood bye old houses. One match and
you can forget about not only your house, but your business use at the
t f
pg8-PH
same time, and if that isn't made aware to people as part of this
explanation I think both sides of the coin should be presented to people
when you are trying to sugar coat a non-conforming use. What you are
getting, and what you think you are getting are two different things, and
that part has not changed-
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It's in there now.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: That is what we were talking about
changing the other day.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It should be changed. Go ahead. I'm sorry,
George.
GEORGE PENNY IV: I think that is pretty much it for now. There is
going to be a couple of more sessions, and I will come up with some more
stuff on it.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I am sure will. Thanks, George- George, do you
want this map back, or in the file?
GEORGE PENNY IV: It is in the town file, if you guys want it. Just one
question? I didn't hear any recommendations from the Planning Board one
way or another, the County Planning Commission-
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We are waiting for those to come back, comments.
GEORGE PENNY IV: They have not come back?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Not yet. The County Planning Board meets
tomorrow.
GEORGE PENNY IV: Is that normal to hold a public hearing before you
have these comments back?
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: You only schedule public hearings prior to
sending referencing to the County Planner.
GEORGE PENNY IV: I am just questioning because many years I was on
the Town Board we never did before.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Greg, you are the attorney.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: The whole purpose of the public hearing,
George, as you know is to gather information, and one of the things you do
is gather from everybody here, you take it from the Planning Board, Town
Planning Board, and the Planning Commission. The point about it, waiting
for the referral to come back from the Suffolk County Planning Commission,
or the Town Planning Board, or public hearings, you can't vote until after
you have all the facts before you. That is the key point.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We can't take any action.
T
pg 9 - PH
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Correct- There can be no vote until after
you have those type of recommendations back.
GEORGE PENNY IV: Yeah, but the public is here to hear what the other
agencies, and the other referrals have to say regarding our own properties.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Along that line, George, I think what the
j Board has said at the last Town Board meeting was that in addition to these
public hearings they are going to keep these public hearings open until the
date after the 12th, at which time the Suffolk County Planning
Commission. The findings or whatever they recommend will be back into the
Board.
GEORGE PENNY IV: Which means that everybody has got to come to three
sessions to make sure that they hear all the information when that is being
made reference on their property, and if they miss one of those sessions
they may miss the opportunity to get this information.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: One of the bumps in the road here is the fact
that we have not yet solidified what the RO and LB zones are going to
contain. We have proposals out there. Nothing is definite. I think that is
what you are referring to, because you can argue about something, or not
argue about something.
GEORGE PENNY IV: I am totally aware that now we are up to maybe three
or four public hearings to accomplish the goal of one. I am just wondering
in fairness to the community that is being effected by this, and who has to
take time off either during the work, or when their families come to many
sessions of the Town Hall, where they could do it all as one. Is that a
necessary burden to place upon the public? I mean, I believe that most
here work for a living. Henry just pointed out that he doesn't. I mean, I
just think.. I reread the Association of Towns brochure that they handed
out when I became a Councilman, and it said the idea is to give as much
information at the public hearing as absolutely possible, and I come in
here, and all you are reading is a few names and lot changes, and that is
it, and that is totally not the way we ever did things when I was on the
Town Board I just question the change. That's all.
HENRY SMITH: My name is Henry Smith. I don't have any personal
interest in any of these properties as a resident, but being in business
had a lot of business friends, which a lot of them are here today. When
read about this study we are doing. The papers had pictures of Route 58
in Riverhead, of the big shopping center and everything like, but I have
come here three or four times now, and all I see is, you know, we are
talking about Mom and Pop operations, no big land speculators that, you
know, they are going to put in these big shopping centers, and things like
that, no Tanger malls here in Southold. I mean we don't have room for
them. All we want after, that I see right now, are hard working people
that have put their life into their business and future, and you are going
after Mom and Pop operations- There is no big land speculators here we are
trying to cut off, or anything like that. These are just ordinary working
people of the town, the backbone of Southold by the way. You know,
businesspeople, you know I have been on fundraising drives with my
political party, the firehouse, the gun club, and everything like that- The
t T
pg 10 - PH
businesspeople because they are handy, and they are the ones that support
the hospital. You look at all contributions to the Eastern Long Island
Hospital, it is all businesspeople. It is all these Mom and Pop operations.
They are the backbone of Southold. If you do this to them I think it is a
great injustice. I can't help it. That's the way I feel-
SUPERVISOR . COCHRAN: Thank you, Henry. Anyone else like to address
the Town Board?
CAROL CUBINELLI: My name is Carol Cubinelli. I have no interest in
any property here, but l service all these properties, especially
Windsong. There isn't weekend, I don't think, that I don't stop there,
and I think it is very unfair to take their business away.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. George, first until everyone has
had the opportunity.
GEORGE PENNY IV: I just want to add to something. My property, a small
half acre there, gave the right of first of refusal on Miloski. It was her
intention to purchase it sometime in the future, that property. When I
consummated the deal on the original one, we had a handshake, that the
real estate broker know about, because it was intention sometime in the
future that she would like to have the first shot at that property.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Mr. Meinke?
HOWARD MEINKE: I am Howard Meinke of the North Fork Environmental
Council. Just a comment, I think that throughout these hearings we keep
hearing the focus on individual people, and really don't talk about the
overall goal of what we were trying to do. Now, Henry Smith said they are
all hardworking people. Nobody is going to do a Tanger mall or what
have you. I am sure that is true, and if it comes out that we are really
beating to death little people, we shouldn't be doing that. But, obviously
as time passes developers accumulate properties. They have real estate
departments that do that, so just because we have little businesses there
now it seemed innocuous doesn't mean that they can't be accumulated and
something else done, so the desire to make the zoning such that can't
happen is, in our opinion, an admirable goal, and sounds to me like it
would be admirable here. The difficulty is, are we or are not really
inflicting great damage on people, and that is for the Town Board to figure
out. I suspect that it is possible for the people on the outside looking in
to say that there is no damage. That is probably not correct. There is
probably much history on it stemming from the people directly affected. So,
somewhere in between is where it really lies, and the Town has to figure
out how to handle that, but overall the majority of the citizens have voted
to save the farms, save the vistas, try to keep the rural aspect of Route
48. So, by and large, there is a basic desire that is shared by
everybody, and we are getting extremely hung up on the mechanics of how
you are going to achieve that. The fact is there is a majority of folks time
and time again in various reports supporting those goals, and you can't
lose sight of the goals while we sit here and argue each property. I don't
say that meaning, the hell with the property owners, just charge ahead,
but somehow time is passing, and the big developers will have their agents
operating under assumed names and mysterious real estate companies out
pg 11 - PH
buying property, and putting things together to try to do what Riverhead
Center on Route 58 is trying to do. So, I think there is a problem here,
and I think the Town has to make the first move, it has to do something,
and I thought, we thought, that this Route 48 corridor initiative was the
first thing to do, the way to start doing something, because we have done
a lot of talk. We haven't done anything, and apparently the majority doesn't
realize that something should be done. Thank you_
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Howard, you used one term that I am
just going to correct you on, and I don't consider this arguing. Okay?
This is a public hearing. The process when you are going through a zone
change is to have input from the people that it affects, and so that is what
we are doing. When this process is done, we have made no decisions yet,
and when this part of the process is done, and we hear from Suffolk
County and we hear from our Planning Board, then we will be making
decisions. Up until that time none have been made. You know like someone
said earlier, it us against them- I would like to think it is not_
BOB JENKINS: Good morning. Bob Jenkins. Does Mr. Cramer or the
Town Board know how large the largest piece of Business zoned property
on County Road 48 is?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We have it all here-
BOB JENKINS: It is just that this mysterious real estate developer could
come.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: There is an Industrial piece in Mattituck.
BOB JENKINS: No, Business property.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: About three acres.
BOB JENKINS: 1 know Doroski Nursery is Limited Business. I don't think
this hysteria of west end developers coming in and buying up business
property on County Route 48. 1 think that County Route 48, certainly
over 806 of it is Agricultural, or Agriculture Conservation, thanks to all
the voters, myself and other business people included, that have voted for
these wonderful farm preservation bills. I think that the County and the
landowners in general have done a wonderful job of keeping County Road 48
rural, and a very minute amount of acreage involved from Orient Point to
Laurel Lane, that is zoned is not going to change the rural character of
County Road 48 other than if it was 100% developed, and there were would
have to be more traffic going through. I think you should consider that,
and the North Fork Environmental might take a different view of that if
they really examined how small business properties are. Thank you_
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Bob, to answer your question the largest one
under B Zone is 13.31 acres. That piece is in Southold 5A. In that entire
zone, the biggest piece has to be in there for the total to be the greatest.
BOB JENKINS: That is the total of five or six different pieces.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Yes, it is. Yes, ma'am?
pg12-PH
PAULINE PHARR: Pauline Pharr. Isn't there anyway, if you are
worried about putting together, that the Town could say, no business
property on the North Road larger ten acres, five acres, rather than
changing the entire zoning from one end to the other, downzoning them
to prevent something. There must be other ways to do this. Just as if you
don't want Home Depot, if there is some legal reason you can't say we will
not permit large chain wholesale stores, or I mean you say that about
McDonald type franchises, so if that is really what you are worrying about
those kind of monster stores then isn't there someway of preventing them,
which everyone would agree with. Is there some legal reason you can't do
that, you can't discriminate against a store?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: You can't prevent them from coming into the
town at all, but you certainly can guide them where you think they might
be the least offensive.
PAULINE PHARR: Can you look at the size of the business acreage?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: We have lot coverage rules.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: The size of property you are speaking-
PAULINE PHARR: Can accumulate six properties in a row, and make
narrow strip, forty acre, which would be long enough this to theologically
put in I mean if you can do that, if you can prevent it that way.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN. One at a time. Greg, would you answer this,
please, if you have any knowledge of this?
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: I don't think you prevent an individual
from accumulating adjacent properties.
PAULINE PHARR: One huge thing?
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Correct.
PAULINE PHARR: In a LB they don't, because you have a lot say sixty
feet is the width of the building.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: That is the second part of what you are
saying. The first part is whether you buy and put them together. You can.
Some of the other things, which that business in town are you both
scheduled here, you lot coverage, area, parking. Some other points that
have brought up are if you look at both schedule there are sewer, water,
depending what it might be.
PAULINE PHARR: You done have those restrictions now to prevent
someone from putting a monstrous store on A piece of property. I mean,
Limited Business is part of loophole-.sixty feet. Sixty feet for a building,
that it has to be spaced, and then another sixty feet. Now, if people were
going to put in twenty-five sixty foot building, they could do that. That
is why it is a boogie man this idea of Home Depot coming. In addition to
which, we are like an appendage. North Fork is like an appendage. You
know this isn't a place to have a business like that. It is at the end of
pg 13 - PH
the road, where all the trucking... The only reason I hear is I live here,
and I was looking for some kind of business that would keep me here, but
it is very inconvenient. I cost me hundreds of dollars extra each year to
get the goods shipped out here. We are an appendage. We are not
Riverhead, which is at the center of two forks and has a western exposure.
We are different. We admit we are different. (Tape change-)
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Is there anyone that would like to speak that
hasn't? Mr. Foster?
ARTIE FOSTER: I really don't want to rip up the North Fork, and pave
over it. I just have a couple of questions. I would really like to know
exactly what the main reason is for all of this? I read many things.
heard many things, and I really just want to know -exactly what is the main
reason all this happening? Just one sentence to tell me why this is going
on, so that 1 will really know from the horse's mouth that half of the stuff
heard is untrue, and the other half that I read is also untrue. I just
want somebody to tell me why.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would you like me to answer?
ARTIE FOSTER: Anybody. Anybody that can give me a good answer.
That is all I want.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: The purpose is to maintain our hamlets, and to
allow certain types of businesses on the North Road with less intense
traffic, but if you look at many of the communities or village shopping in
many of the towns bypasses become the business area, and the towns then
begin to disintegrate. This is the theory.
ARTIE FOSTER: And the vista view, I understand completely, but I also
think from what I have seen that it is pretty much in place from east to
Mattituck all the way down to Doroski's. It is what it is, and what it is
going to be, and the places that are being affected are the places that
already contain small businesses, and we really don't have the room, or
wouldn't even get the room, or be able to get the variances to change into
any kind of expansion because the lots are so small.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I think I gave you the theory in relation to
Hamlet Business. Artie, don't see the vistas as the number one reason for
this philosophy-
ARTIE FOSTER: That is what is played up. That is what the papers are
playing up, the vista.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I think that they have lost the point.
ARTIE FOSTER: I know a little bit about it, because I was voted the
worse vista in town, so naturally I have kind of a personal interest in
this. I am really trying to clean up my act, so many next time around I will
only be second worsted-
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN. I am glad you have a sense of humor.
pg14-PH
ARTIE FOSTER: In addition to that some of the RO designations that are
going to be proposed to change just outside, it is my assumption that when
you take something from an industrial or an LIO into a lesser use as you
approach the actual hamlet the RO is one of these that come into place to
allow..
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It is part of a transition zone.
ARTIE FOSTER: We have to define what they are going to be at this
point in time, but I really think that in affect to put some of these
further out of the hamlet area might suck a little bit of the existing
businesses that are there now, where people have a commercial business,
let's say in Cutchogue a lady has a hairdresser, and all of sudden she is
now allowed to have that use in her home, and live upstairs, well., there we
got another empty store in town. I can potentially see this happening if
that is done, but you did answer my question. I appreciate it. 1 just really
want to know, because if you read the papers it is very confusing. What
we are all out there reaching for is maybe not what it is perceived to be.
just really wanted to know for myself why we are doing all this, because
most of areas from what I can see the people that are here, that have
worked all their life, as I have, might be committed to a sentence of
working for the rest of their life, if the value is taken from the property,
and I have to incur with that really, because I am in the same situation.
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else want to speak that have not? Yes,
sir?
GORDON SCHLAFER: Gordon Schlafer from 1670. 1 would like to
direct a question to Mr. Meinke. I think he thinks we are guilty a little
bit about the harm this
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Sir, please, this is not a debate. This is a
hearing. Address your remarks to the Board, please.
GORDON SCHLAFER: I was wondering, I am sure Mr_ Meinke is retired,
and I am sure he is on a pension, and I would like him think about how he
would like if somebody took his pension, and knocked off about 600 of it.
That is what going happen to us, and that is what is going to happen to a
lot of other people I know.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. I don't want this to get into a
debate.
HOWARD MEINKE: I would just like to say that I spent my life being a
general contractor. I don't have a pension. I saved some money. I bought a
house, and I think l do understand where you people are coming from. I
am a small businessman. I was a small businessman. I was fortunate enough
to build where-in a town in Connecticut. That was good place to build,
and I live very frugally. I am very happy when the Social Security comes
in, so I am not as fat a cat as some might think. I have just been coming
out here since I was little shaver. My father started coming here 1932, and
think this is a magnificent place, and am interested in keeping it that
way. I fully understand about that. I am not part of any conspiracy to take
pg 15 - PH
your value. I said earlier that I had heard about towns that put into place
some more of arbitrators negotiation committee, so that if the Town went
ahead, and did some of the zoning things, and if you could be affected you
sit with representatives of real estate, or buildings, and town, of
planning, or banking, etc., and determine what the real facts are, and the
Town uses it's many methods between planning code changes, regulations,
special exceptions, land swaps- There is a variety of things that you could
do to help make you whole if you have the damage. So, I am not at all
sure, that there is a need to ever get so excited about..well, maybe you
should get excited because maybe it isn't clear how the solution is at the
other end of the road. That is always unsettling. I understand what you
are saying here, but I don't think it has to go that way. I would hope that
we could unite behind some method where we seem to agree that we don't
want spoil this place, and in my .experience as a little kid in 1932 and
going on, we haven't spoiled it yet, but it is harder to replace now than it
was then, and having seen what happened to the South Fork, and seeing
some of the big houses being built here that are creeping around from the
South Fork, I think we can see the writing on the wall, seeing Riverhead
developing. I think we do have to do something- Now, we can't do it and
balance it on the backs of you people, as a politician like to say, but we
really do have to do something I think.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you for your comments- Please, I don't
want a debate back and forth. George?
GEORGE PENNY IV: There is a way to handle some of this, and it is a lot
more gentle that this amputation you guys are talking about. If you are
worried about the side by side cumulation of properties by some unknown
real estate developer that is going to wipe out with a bulldozer all the
small community who seems very happy to exist and stay there right now. I
don't know that these properties are up for sale. One way is to reduce
your zoning maybe one notch. Look at the notches- What is available? What
can somebody put in a Business zone? Can a car dealer come out there on
48 in a Business zone? Somebody answer that for me.
TOWN ATTORNEY YAKABOSKI: Yes.
GEORGE PENNY IV: They can. Fine. Kick them to the Light Industrial.
What are the intense uses that are in a business zone are you afraid of?
Take them out of it. It is a very simple thing. You don't have to go from
B Business to RO to make a change. You could take an LB zone as a
Limited Business zone, kick somebody from a B down to a LB, and make
retail an allowable use with outside sales and storage. End of story. Then
nobody big is going to come along and buy it, because the way it is going
right now if you put a burden on a small business community, this burden
of non-conformity, this burden of non-expansion means that they can't grow
with the future. When they can't grow with the future, and can't compete
with big box stores that are Riverhead, then they can't compete. The first
thing they are going to do is go out of business- Then when they go out of
business some big developer is going to come in, and he is going to be
fine. One, two, three, four, five empty stores, and he is going to come
into the Town Board, and he is going to say then to the Town Board,
would like a zone change, because this is a rundown area. There is nothing
there. Those stores have been vacant for five years, and some Town Board
pg 16 - PH
outside of yourselves is going to give this guy the zone change, and there,
we have lost everything we have tried to gain. That is what you are doing
by stopping, by cutting off, by cutting the life out of your small business
community. I have been in the small business community all my life. I know
what it is like to be non-conforming. I know what it is like to have to
appeal to a Board of Appeals for every time you want to make a turn. You
go and beg for your rights. This last Master Plan took care of that. It put
legitimate uses in legitimate zones. Conformity was our goal, and believe
you me we are going in entirely the wrong direction. You sending the
wrong message here to the small business community. There is nowhere for
us to go. You can fix that, but this is not the way to do.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, George. Someone else had their hand
up. Anyone else like to address the Town Board? (No response) If not, I
will adjourn until the next session at ten.
10:00 A.M.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: This part of the hearing will cover Greenport 1A,
2A, and 3A, and Bill will read the tax map numbers and the owners of the
property.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The properties that are being discussed now are
Section 40-3-1 Kace LI LLC, 45-2-1 John Siolas and Catherine
Tsounis, 40-3-6.1 Richard and Anita Wilton, 40-3-6.2 Linda Wilton, 40-3-7
Steven and Lenore Atkins, 40-3-8 Antone Malinauskas, 40-3-9.3 Agnes
Dunn, 40-3.9.4 Susan Malinauskas and part of 36-1-25 Peconic Landing
at Southold.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Most of the people in this area did come in last
evening, but if there is anyone else that would like to speak in relation to
these properties we would be very happy to have your input. Bob?
BOB JENKINS: Regarding the Peconic Landing, I see you propose Limited
Business to R80, and think that is the piece that has Brecknock Hall on
it, and I have read, and have been told, that they hope to make that into
a cultural center of some type, which I think is a fabulous idea, and 1
don't know if that would be allowed under R80. So, 1 think if it is allowed
under LB that it should stay LB, and not be changed. We might all benefit.
The other piece of property that I am familiar with is Mr. McIntosh's
piece, which is scheduled to go from HD to R80, and I am a little familiar
with the piece of property, and I thought since it was Reverend Young's
house originally back in 1650, and it is located in a beautiful spot next to
a potential center, what a great country inn it would make.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It is a lovely home.
BOB JENKINS: It would make a great country inn, not a bed and
breakfast, but a country inn, and I don't think that is allowed under R80,
but it would be allowed under HD. So, I think you might consider keeping
that. That is all I have to say.
pg 17 - PH
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thanks, Bob. Anyone else like to address the
Town in relation to these properties, Creenport? (No response.) If not,
will close this part of the hearing, and the next session will take place at
11:00 o'clock here somewhere. I am not adjourning. I am recessing. We will
be looking at Southold 3 at 11:00 o'clock. The Board has some work to do.
We have several resolutions to look at, and the modular trailer for the back
of the building.
11:00 A.M.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: This part of the hearing will cover Southold 3,
and Alice will read the tax map numbers and the property owners.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Property #59-10-4 of Edward Koster going from
LB to AC_ All of these are going to that designation- Clifford Cornell, Lot
#59-10-5, Ellen Hufe Lot #59-7-31.4, Alice Surozenski Lot #59-7-32,
Jack Weiskott part of 59-10-3.1, Alfred and Juliet Frodella part of
59-7-29.2, Clement Charnews part of 59-7-30, Walter Pharr, Jr. part of
59-9-30.4, Steven Defriest part of 59-10-2.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Alice. Anyone like to address the
Town Board on any of these parcels? Mrs. Pharr?
PAULINE PHARR: My name is Pauline Pharr addressing in particular
Tax #059-9-30.4 owned by my husband. I would like to give you written
summation of what he said last night for the record. Before I do I would
just summarize and say that he pointed out the inaccuracies in Mr. Cramer's
analysis of our whole section, and particularly the main reason he gave for
changing us which was that there was a great potential for a strip center
in that location, and if it is currently zoned LB, and in the proposed LB
zoning retail strip centers are not permitted. You can only have a sixty
foot building, and the only retail permitted is galleries, and craft work
shops, so the question of putting in a strip center is muted. Now, I would
like to address the question of vistas, which is being very important in the
discussions. 1 own a house in Southold, that backs up to a farm field. It
has a beautiful vista- That is part of the reason I bought the house. I love
the vista, and I hope that it will stay in farm fields forever, but I know I
don't own that vista. That vista belongs to the property owner, and by the
courtesy of him I still have a view, but it did occur to me to go to the
Town and say, change his zoning from Agriculture Conservation to
Agriculture only, so that he can never put houses there, because I want to
look at it forever. But, such a proposal was made by the Suffolk County
Planning Department Agriculture and Farmland Protection Plan quoted in the
Cramer Study. It said of the radical zoning approach recommends the
designation of Agriculture zoning category that would only allow
agriculture. Now, if you did that to the farmlands you would be doing what
you are doing to me in this proposal- Taking away, really, a major right by
zoning. But, you choose not to that. You choose to go to Agriculture Farm
Preservation Program then pay money for these rights, because it was a
fair thing to do. Now, 'yesterday Mr. Moore said, we are not doing this out
of benevolence. We are doing this because we are taking away the entire
pg 18 - PH
use of the property, I think what was, it is necessary. However, I don't
see that you are taking away the entire use of the property. When you buy
development rights all you are doing is taking away the maximum use,
which is housing. You are still allowing the farmer to use this land, to
make a profit off of the land by farming, and if you made wastelands so
they could do nothing with this land, then that would be more of what Mr.
Moore stated when you said you have to pay because you were making it
wasteland. You are not making it wasteland, so it really is in my mind a
logical comparability between changing something to Agriculture only so that
you don't have pay the farmer for development rights and changing a
property to AC, so that you don't have to pay to take away the business
rights from that property. I have so many things to say. 1 have been
talking in my sleep for nights about all of this. What is the definition of
Agriculture Conservation? Because this morning I picked up off. the table
the purpose of Agriculture Conservation, which is the recommended zone
for our 8.8 acre property section. It says, the -purpose of Ac is to
recently control and to the extent possible prevent the unnecessary loss of
these currently open-, lands within the town containing large. and continuous
areas of prime agricultural soil, which is a basis for the significant
portion of the town's economy, and those areas sensitive to environment
feature. There are five businesses and two homes in my. section, including
the two businesses which were arbitrarily taken out. This is not a large
area of prune' agricultural use. It is a strip of business property, which
has been there ,for thirty years along Route 48. It doesn't fit in
Agriculture. Vt'doesn't fit in Residential. I have a 5,000 square foot, and
have had for 17 years, unheated warehouse. This is not a home by any
estimation. For me to sell this property as Agriculture Conservation someone
would have buy it and blow up the building, and cart away all of that to
put a house on a four lane divided highway. That doesn't make sense.
Neither does it make sense to buy a machine shop, knock it dowrx, and put
up a house on a four lane divided highway. What are you doing then? You
are taking away really almost all of the use of my property. I mean I have
on acre with a building on it. Who is going to farmk that. That is a house
next to me. If someone were to buy my building and that house, knock
them both down, so they could farm two acres? It is cbmpletel7 senseless.
So, supposing you say, okay, we are going to leave the. buildings that are
there, because they, have been there, but there is some !spots of open land
there. It is zoned Business, that hasn't been developed. yet. Let's change
them. Well, five. years from now somebody is going to. coine.;alorig and say,
what is Pharr Distributors doing there with all this agricultural property
around them. That is a spot of business that shouldn't .,lie there. Let's
change it to Agricultural, then they will fit into the Agriculture around
them forgetting that you made me a spot of Agriculture, because I was in a
whole continuous section of Business, that had been zorted Business for
twenty years. But, for you to start changing the open piece's and making a
checker board out of it, someone is going to come along and say that is
spot zoning forgetting that they did it. You say, oh, that won't happen,
but I heard young Tyler Cornell say, yesterday, that when his father went
through all the Planning things for his ECCO building, the Board told
him, the Planning Board, the Zoning Board, whoever, told him he had to
have more parking spaces then he had proposed, so he had to put more
spaces in front of the building, and when he put them in front of the
building now we are complaining that, oh my goodness, look at this, you
have parking spaces in front of the building. We don't like that. Let's get
pg 19 - PH
rid of them. Well, you asked him to do that. Not you but your
predecessors so people down the road can also forget that you asked me to
become a little island, that is being preserved as LB with the property next
to me or across the street from is changed to Ag. You did the same
thing Mrs. Coster's property. If you left her spot, and changed the
whole side of the road, somebody is going to come and take it away in the
future. Now, I just wanted to say as a final thing. Southold Town has
many resources. You know that. Business is one of your resources. The
Cramer Report said 20$ of the economic base of Southold comes from it's 700
to 800 privately owned small businesses- Agricultural products 160. All of
agriculture 160. Business 200. You are coming down very hard on business.
You are riot treasuring us. You are not saying, this is something that we
should encourage and maintain. So, I think the problems you want to
address they are really problems. There is a better way _of doing it then,
than making people's land virtually worthless.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like
to address the Town Board?
LAURA KOSTER: Laura Koster. I addressed the Town Board last
night, and what I want to say is very brief. Pauline has researched this.
She has done an excellent job. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Is there anyone else like to address the Town
Board or any of the parcels in Southold 3?
CLEMENT CHARNEWS: My name is Clement Charnews. I addressed the
Town Board last night on the Defriest property which I acquired now.
am also opposed to changing my house, where I live. It is listed
Agricultural. 1 just figured it was a nice little place for a dentist office
or something. I did have a few offers, and now it will devalue my
property. I mean all I can say is I am opposed to this. I made that clear
last night about the property on the north side. It is here under Steven
Defriest, which is mine now. I am opposed to changing my place from
Light Business to AC.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Clem. Anyone else like to address
the Town Board on any of the parcels on this section. Yes, ma'am?
ELLEN HUFE: My name is Ellen Hufe. I am addressing the parcel
(unintelligible) and 1 just want to confirm what Pauline Pharr has done.
The research was absolutely excellent. I did speak on behalf of my parcel
last night. I do need to reiterate that at this time. As I stated last
night, I just want to reiterate, I found it very disturbing that
(unintelligible).
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board on
any of the parcels in Southold 3? Yes, sir?
TYLER CORNELL: Tyler Cornell, once again for Cornell family. A quick
question that I had that I realized last night. I asked the record to show
that my notes should be taken from both parcels that were in question. Is
there formal notes that are taking.
pg 20 - PH
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Oh, yes. We tape the entire proceedings anytime
you have a hearing, you know a public hearing, and it is all transcribed
verbatim. We have asked for printed or written statements because it does
help and support what is on the tape. There are time when people do not
speak loud enough or there is a garble in here, and we don't like losing
any words as they should be. That transcript will be available after the
hearing is closed. Give us a little bit. In fact, the first sessions we
have had are already being transcribed, so as soon as today is finished
that will start being transcribed, and we are trying to get them out as
quickly as we can.
TYLER CORNELL: Great. On a personal note in defense of Mrs. Pharr's
property, Mr. Pharr's property, if I may. I spent a lot at the house as
a kid growing up, and watching their small business start out of their
house. I got to play with the toys,and the things that they were
distributing- I didn't know what they were doing, and watch Mr. Pharr
grow with a small business out of his home into a 5,000 square foot
warehouse, and I remember my father always speaking so highly of his as
far as how long and how hard he worked to get the business going. It is
one of the reasons why I always worked so hard and tried so hard, and -I
would hate to see that taken away- On the second note to do with our
parcel, the one . that is being rezoned to Agricultural, I would like to
reiterate my point as of yesterday that to take $100,000 out of someone's
pocket is pretty stuff, especially when they are 60 years-old and would like
to retire soon. I really do think that it should be done in a democratic
fashion and the Vote to all: the people who want it, and those people who do
want it pay for it. Even as far as we pay taxes for years based on a
certain zoning for each piece of property. They were paying all those taxes
for it, and now is not only the property devaluated, but we don't obviously
get the zoning we paid for. There is another point I would like to bring
up. The second point is intriguing. I don't know if it is a question or it
is a point. It seems that most of the businesses in question, or the
properties in question right now belong to blue collar workers, and I highly
doubt if there is any sentimental discrimination..
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I wouldn't go that way.
TYLER CORNELL: 1 am not looking to bring it up, but what my point is,
can we have a granite shop in Feather Hill? Would it be good for Robert's
Jewelers to be filled up with dust and cutting? We have prefabricated
wires going into large companies up the island being done at the parking
lot of Feather Hill, or across the sidewalk on the Main Road of town. Can
we take a machine shop and have that noise going through the hamlet, and
the homes that are in the hamlet along with the small businesses? Once
again, I am just asking these things be taken into high consideration. As
with Gerry Gralton yesterday nobody knew what do to with his building
after it was rezoned. What do we do with our businesses? Where do we
move to, or where do we sell them off to? Thank you for your time again-
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board on
Southold 3? (No response.) We will reconvene at 2:00 o'clock.
pg 21 - PH
2:00 P.M.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The properties involved are 59-3-29 John and Joan
Callahan, 59-3-30 Deborah Edson, 59-3-31 David Cichanowicz, 59-4-8
Timothy Gray, 59-4-9 Jimbo Realty Corp., 63-1-1.6 Thomas and Susan
McCarthy.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Is there anyone that would like to address the
Board at this time?
STEVE ANGEL: My name is Steve Angel. We are attorneys in Riverhead. I
am here for a limited purpose in my representation to present protest
petitions under Section 265 of the Town's Law in connection with the
particular public hearings you just announced. I do have protest petitions
on behalf of some of those people. That is David Cichanowicz, John Ross,
Nicholas Batuyios, Carl and Caroline Graseck, Joseph Wallace, Lisa
Crowley, and John and Joan Callahan. I also have -a whole bunch of
others that relate to the hearings that have both been held and are
continuing to be held. These are the originals with an index, and I have
an extra one for the Town Clerk, and an extra one for myself.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board?
Yes, ma'am?
CATHY GRASECK: I am Cathy Graseck. I am in the firm of Southold
Quarry. My husband and his brother are the owners. 1 just wanted to let
everybody know I just put together another letter. Dear Town Board
members, Did you ever realize that economic loss of whole Route 48
rezoning would have on our community's economy. Besides the individual
zoning, the owner's property, it would effect their families as well as all
the employees of these companies that work with it, and it would also affect
other businesses that are related to these businesses, because in a small
community there are businesses that depend on one another. In our
particular business we work with ceramic tile setters, and also with
masons. We sell them supplies, as well as tools that they work with. It
would cause a hardship'on them. They would have to drive at least an hour
further out of their way to get these supplies. It would be more costly to
do their work, and it turn it would cost the people who they do work for
more money. So, this is another factor in this rezoning, and I wish you
would consider when you vote on this issue. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you very much. Anyone else like to
address the Town Board on any of these Southold parcels for A, B, C? Mr.
Penny?
GEORGE PENNY IV: George Penny again. It was explained to us this
morning somewhat briefly that the purpose of doing this is to reduce traffic
on County Route 48, and I am not speaking for my property at this time,
but it is same relation to the Graseck property, I would like it explained
to me, if you would, please, in some many words, how making it
non-conforming, reducing them to Residential Office is going to have a
positive effect for County Route 48?
pg22-PH
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Who would like to answer this one?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: I think the thought, George, is that maybe it is
part of the fear that goes on here is notion that that business can not
continue. Of course, you know that it can. The point of zoning is it is
zoned for the future. You take someone with a B zone and all potential uses
of B zone, all the traffic generated from a B zone, and down the road in
the future they want to change that use to something different, obviously
you are stuck with what you have there, if you want to look at it as being
stuck from a Planner's prospective, but that will have no impact whatsoever
on the traffic at the moment. It is down the road, if and when the day
comes that it changes and that use comes about it would be as intense as
present, or less intense. Certainly never more intense. So, the concern
that you have about losing your use, and losing the ability to use your
property as you presently do is an error, and you are really looking
towards the future- Down the road, fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty, sixty
years from now, you are trying to zone for the :future not immediately for
today's purposes, because the people of today are protected by the way the
Constitution has the right to protect them, Zoning Codes protect them.
That is what we are talking about.
GEORGE PENNY IV: So, this is all a grand scheme for thirty and forty
years now?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: As any of our children or grandchildren will be
there. The goal is to maintain the retail uses in the hamlets be extended
back. We are not going to sit there and take away people's property rights
today.
GEORGE PENNY IV: You mentioned you are changing from B, is there
property now in B?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: I was just giving an example, B, or LB or RO.
GEORGE PENNY IV: I asked specifically for that property.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: I believe it is LB right now.
GEORGE PENNY IV: With the size of their property as it is now, the
requirements for expansion on that property, what much more severe?
There are some scary edges to the LB Zone.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: If you don't want it in that location, yes.
GEORGE PENNY IV: The LBs?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Yes.
GEORGE PENNY IV: So what if you just remove some of those malignant LB
uses from the LB zone, and that way they can change?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: That is another solution. That was looked at a
couple of years ago- That is what we looking at a few years ago_
(Unintelligible)
pg 23 - PH
BOB JENKINS: Bob Jenkins, Cutchogue. I am just at a loss, and I don't
know if anybody on the Town Board can answer it. I am at a loss as to the
nature of the changes- It doesn't make sense that one business gets
changed to RO, and another business gets changes to RB, especially if
the business is off of County Route 48, no egress on and off the road, and
it gets changed to RO, which is a less potential use, than an LB, which is
right on County Road 48. You have traffic going in and out of that
building. I don't know if the person responsible for recommending the
changes explained to the Town Board why some would be RO, why some
would B, or did he just say, okay everybody on this list B is LB, and the
others RO.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We will be sitting with the consultant after the
hearings are done, and he has been sitting here taking notes, and taking
all you input, and we will evaluate that. Anyone else like to address the
Town Board?
CAROLINE GRASECK: I just wanted to ask a question. You say these
new zoning proposal are for ten, twenty years down the road. Well, say
there is somebody in the family wants to buy this property. They actually
have to buy this property from the rest of the family members, wouldn't
they be affected by this?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The use will continue from here until eternity.
CAROLINE GRASECK: So, if we sold our business it could be sold for
what it is to anybody, and our zoning would not be changed at all?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: I didn't say that. The underlying zoning could
change, but the use
CAROLINE GRASECK: That's the same thing.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: No, what you asked me could you sell your
business, and I said, you most certain could.
CAROLINE GRASECK: But the zone would change. So, it would be a
devaluation of property.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: If you are selling for the business, the business
can continue. That is the question I am answering-
CAROLINE GRASECK: But if the business is not complying with RO how
can you sell the business and the building? You can't.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The law allows you to do that. A business can
continue not withstanding in spite of it's non-conforming status. It would
be better for you to hear from your own counsel, your own attorney, than
to hear from me. But that is the law, a business can continue to operate in
a non-conforming status.
CAROLINE GRASECK: And they don't have to get any special permission?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: No.
pg 24 - PH
CAROLINE GRASECK: Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You are welcome. Sir?
TYLER CORNELL: Sorry, I really didn't want to speak, but I think that
Mrs. Graseck is trying to get to, where Mrs. Graseck wanted to sell
her business she could get a great value for her business- If she wanted to
sell her property separately then the rezoning would effect the
marketability of her property, so she would still lose on the asset- She can
sell her business but not the asset. So, although, it seems that she talk
to her attorney. It would help where she was going with it. It is definitely
true, but there is two assets there. Once the marketable goes down. Is
that is correct?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The business would continue on that site- I don't
how you separate them out, but I don't profess to a be a real estate
appraiser-
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else to address the Town Board?
ELLEN HUFE: My name is Ellen Hufe. I have just been listening to
some of the comments, and I am somewhat confused. Two things, Mr. Moore
said shortly before that this is being done with thirty, twenty years down
the road, and it is for our children and our grandchildren. I think most of
the business owners here, or a good percentage of them, are precisely
thinking about our children and our grandchildren also, thinking of their
futures, so they could perhaps keep up the business- If they keep the
business it is going to be valuable. Any connection with that, I don't know
if you have ever tried to sell a business or part of a business, but it
certainly is devalued, when you go to market it if it doesn't have the right
zoning. I know that. I can't imagine trying to sell the business, the
purchaser then wants to know what he is allowed to continue there legally
as it is.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board on
the Southold parcels on 4? (No response.) If not, we will move on to 2:30.
2:30 P.M.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We will be looking at what is listed as Southold
5A and the tax map numbers are?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Properties 55-1-11.1, 11.2, 11.3, 11.4, all of Ed
Dart's, 55-5-2.2 William Penny 111, 55-5-2.4 Thomas and Susan McCarthy,
55-5-6 John Satkoski and Rite Patricia.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN. Anyone like to address the Board in relation to
the parcels listed as 5A? I think everyone was in last night. They all
were. Anyone like to address in relation to 5A? (No response.) The next
are scheduled for 3:30. Yes, Bob?
BOB JENKINS: This just goes back to selling your business, and what the
property value might be worth- John has a business and is unable to
pg 25 - PH
continue in that business, so he leases the building and the property to
Bill. Bill runs the business. He runs it poorly. The business is out of
business. There is no more business, but John still owns the property, so
John has a buyer for the property, but the buyer does not want to be in
the masonry business. He would like to be the retail clothing stores, sell
men clothing, but he is not zoned properly for that business. It does hurt
the resale value of the property. That is my opinion. I might be wrong,
but that is my opinion.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Bob. Anyone else like to address
the Town Board?
RONNIE WACKER: I have been out of town for a few weeks, so I am not
conscious of the specific changes that have been recommended by the
Cramer Report, but I just wanted to speak generally about my feelings
about what the Town Board is doing. Is that okay at this time? I just want
to, first of all, to congratulate the Board for doing something, because we
have got to do something if we don't want to see Southold go to waste like
the rest of Long Island has gone. I applaud you for tackling the thorny
question of Route 48_ Route 48, 1 think, is the canary in the coal mine. If
it dies it becomes another Route 58, and the rest of the town will also be
subject to decay. Look what has happened to Riverhead, every swap take
out shop and supposed discount house has been allowed to stay up there.
The rest of Riverhead has settled into lost business. Main Street has
become a belonged throughway with empty store windows. Southold however
is still a vibrant community, even though it too has been affected to some
extent., but Riverhead mindless approval of the commercial monster Tanger
Mall, but tourists still crowd our farm stands, and the youngsters run to
pick pumpkins. Let's keep it that way. 1 ask you please to consider
carefully and adopt the changes recommended by the Cramer Study as a
first step towards ratification of full Master Plan, which has been works
for the last twenty years. We need today to act boldly, to preserve and
assure the area, and assure our children will inherit a Southold that will
be as attractive a community as it is today. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board?
GERARD GRASECK: My name is Gerard Graseck. Has any members of
the Town Board or any of the Town have assessed any of the properties
that they are planning to devaluate, the present assessment versus what it
would be worth after? Has any property been assessed?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: No.
GERARD GRASECK: Should we have our properties assessed now?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: That is your decision.
GERARD GRASECK: Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: George?
pg 26 - PH
GEORGE PENNY IV: Back to this question of parking and traffic flowing,
the reason for this whole thing- Let's use the Grasecks for an example.
How many parking spots do you have?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN. Parking spot where, George?
GEORGE PENNY IV: On their property. I believe they have filed a site
plan, that has been approved by the Planning Board, consisting of zoning.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: It would seem so, because it predates the Zoning
Code.
GEORGE PENNY IV: They have space for five cars, and people are not
parking out in the street what difference is it going to make to the future
of the town unless they come in to increase their parking, in which case
they have got to go through some stringent site plan review all over again,
and really basically start from square one from I understand from the way
the Code has been interpreted. If there is any change in the use or the
intensity of use that although the Courts may rule this unconstitutional
today, that the Town continues to pursue things in this area. So, why
when the scrutiny comes up couldn't it be addressed at that point, and it
just as easily turned down. I can't see anybody wanting to come and
intensify a business when they can't provide parking- Where are we going
with this?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN- What is your question?
GEORGE PENNY IV: Where are we going with this?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: What was it before then, seriously?
GEORGE PENNY IV: They have spots for five cars- How is that going to
have any negative affect on anything over the next thirty years? If the
traffic flows out on the street I could understand, but if the traffic flows
out into the street they are going to come into the town, and they are
going to pay for more space, the Town is going to have to deal with it
sometime in the future. Why are we assuming that the worse case scenario
is going to happen to Southold Quarry? That all of a sudden it is going to
generate twenty, thirty, forty times more traffic just because they are
there? Why are we making that assumption today?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I'm not making any assumption at this point,
George. I am taking input from the people involved, and my decisions will
come after discussion and evaluation. If he needs thirty more parking
places, God bless him, he is doing a good business.
GEORGE PENNY IV: If he needs thirty more parking place, you make him
non-conforming, he will not be able to expand his business to meet the
needs of those thirty people.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: That is a statement.
GEORGE PENNY IV: That is a statement and a question. I am just trying
to find out where we are going with this, because I heard for the first time
pg27-PH
today that this whole thing was about parking, and Bill just stated earlier
we dealing with something that is twenty or thirty years in the future.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: We are talking about a number of issue here,
George, no just parking. We can't just pick them out of the blue. It is the
uses that are allowed in the zone, and how you would like to see your uses
in your overall community developed over time, and that is what it is
about. Where do you want your retail businesses? Do you want them in
your hamlet centers. What kind of business do you want on Route 48? That
is what it is all about.
GEORGE PENNY IV: We did exactly that- We created the LB zone for the
abuses that were heavy traffic generating uses.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Actually they were designed to be the non-heavy
traffic generating. That was the purpose, and specifically for the
non-traffic generators.
GEORGE PENNY IV: And they were put on 48, because 48 was supposed to
be...
COUNCILMAN MOORE: That is why a significant amount of LB zoning is
still recommended on 48, and why B zoning is to be rezoned.
GEORGE PENNY IV: You lost me.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Go back and look over the whole town. There is
still a significant number of LB Zones on Route 48_
GEORGE PENNY IV: But you are taking away the LB that already exist.
In most cases you are reducing them to Residential Office.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: We are going to work with the consultant on how he
justified under those guidelines, and the Master Plan, which we looked at
the recommendations, and now we are listening to your input on Business
Office.
GEORGE PENNY IV: Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board?
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: would like to know when Mr. Cramer gives you his
input on this whole study, can we also be at that meeting?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You certainly can attend. It is a public
meeting. You will probably not take part in it. It will be a discussion
with the Town Board. It will probably be done through a Work Session of
the Town Board, but you are more than welcome to attend.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Will it be in the paper?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN. Definitely. Yes, sir?
pg 28 - PH
TYLER CORNELL: I do apologize. Like I said I would rather not be around
politics. Mr. Cramer is getting paid I would assume right now for his
notes. We are all here leaving our jobs and everything else. We are not
getting paid. Do we have the right to bill you for our time?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I am not going to answer that.
TYLER CORNELL: I am not being wise- We are also all fighting to keep
what we have.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We understand that.
TYLER CORNELL: Why are we doing that? Let me step back a little. As
you know I was in Florida for a couple of years, and I left there a few
months ago to come up and see what I could work out with my family and
things of that sort to help them out. Since I left Florida there is about
seven radical changes that have gone on in the small area of Clearwater,
where I was from. The Wind Dixie shopping center completely left and went
into a bigger shopping center. Things changed, added, all of these
different things have gone on in the last couple of months. Since I left
Long Island to go to Florida in 1997 the only real change I see is a new
industrial park. It has not been touched as far the zoning is concerned.
Doesn't that make that property more valuable if it is the only commercial
industrial property in the area? That hasn't even been brought up yet.
Somebody say something about this industrial property while we fight to
keep ours, somebody else is going to worth a fortune down the road. This
is our town, right?, I don't know who owns that industrial property but
where are we going? We are going away from our people, going away from
our town.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else like to address the
Town Board? (No response.) If not, we will recess until 3:30, and then we
will come back to Greenport B, 1, 2 and 3. Then following the 3:30 will be
the 5:00, which will cover Mattituck 1A through Mattituck 113, and then we
have at 6:00 more on Mattituck.
3:00 P.M.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We will be dealing with Greenport 1, Greenport
2, Greenport 3, B, B, B, 1B, 2B, and 3B.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Property, Section 45-2-10.5 Adrienne Solof,
40-4-1 Suffolk County Water Authority, and 85-1-27.2, 27.3 McIntosh
property.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Is there anyone who would like to address the
Town Board in relation to the Greenport 1B, 2B, or 3B parcels? (No
response.) Anyone like to address the Board on any general statements, or
anything?
GERRY WOODHOUSE: My name is Gerry Woodhouse. I live in Orient,
and I work in the Town of Southold. I have lived here for about ten
years, but my family has owned businesses and property since way back
pg 29 - PH
when. My great-great-grandfather was a Lutheran minister in the 1800's,
who formed a number of congregations out here on the east end. When my
husband and I were married we lived in Nassau County, and when it came
time for him to retire we thought seriously about where we wanted to go.
am younger than he, and was going to continue to work, and we choose to
live out here for the reasons that I think many people do, the vista, the
way it looks, the perfect combination of sky, and land, and water for us,
and that is what has kept us living here. Because I have been a
businesswoman myself for many years and appreciate the difficulties
involved in the decisions you have to make when the kinds of changes that
are being proposed affect people on the individual level. I can imagine I
have be aware this week. I have read all of the studies and all the reports,
and I can only imagine how difficult it is to hear things one by one when
somebody talks about, what they think might happen,to their property in the
future, and. how that would be marked by the decisions you are making.
But I want to say that I think you have taken some,-very courageous steps
to do what you are doing, to have these hearings, have;the moratorium, to
make the kind of recommendations for changes that are going to affect
everybody to the greater good for the long term, and I think that is the
issue. We are talking about what happens on the individual personal level,
and we also have to'i balance that what happens for the: greater good, for
the greater amount of people over the long run. While individual changes,
sometimes they are really hard to do, it is the big' picture, the broader
concept that makes the difference. We have business areas. I have read
every one of the studies over the last couple of years, and they all
remarkable say the same thing- We have business hamlets. We have
various, right now that have bacon businesses, they have bacon pieces of
property, that are very suitable for businesses. Sa, for those people who
are concerned about Businesses my suggestion would be that if there isn't
already been on the Town level, there be some liaison with businesspeople,
people who want to go in business, and people who want to purchase things
for business where they can come and talk to someebody who will apprise
them of what is here already, what exists, and Ay it is important to
situate those businesses in a hamlet area- Now, I drive often outside the
area to go and do my shopping, and do the kinds of things that I need to
do, because I can't necessarily find what I have to. Does that mean that I
want to have it in a strip mail on the North Road? .Absolutely not. I want
to come home to area that I love the way it looks., I don't mind driving a
little further if I have to shop, and I love to shop in the downtown hamlet
areas, because for me often I am shopping alone. It is much safer for me.
It is easier to park my car and go to businesses that are there. I don't
want to see them gone. When it also comes down to the issue of individual
property rights, andi property values it is hard for me to listen to the
heartbreaking stories of people without also thinking about the fact that,
you know, I am a property owner. I have rights, but property rights are
not absolute rights. Because I own property does not mean that I can do
anything I want with that property. I have responsibilities- The kinds of
responsibilities that go along with those rights are the kind of
responsibilities that are there because what I do with my property isn't
mine alone to do. It affects everyone else around me_ I can't put up on
property anything that I want because I have neighbors around, and I live
in a community, and so everything has to be balanced in a broader, larger
contents, and I think that is some of the issues that you are struggling
with now, how to stay true to the larger broader context of what you need
pg 30 - PH
to be doing, and what kind of policies need to be in placed to protect all
of us in the long run, and I would hope that as you make the kind of
decisions that you are grappling with that the emphasis is on upzoning,
not downzoning. There is mechanisms in place that deal with people who
have exceptions or individual problems- They can be dealt with by Zoning
Boards, and Architectural Review Boards. But the Board, the overall
Board, I think your responsibility is to set for all of us a broad picture,
the big policy issues, the broad stroke 'definition that will help all these
other pieces be looked at in a intelligent way in the future, so I urge you
to continue what you are doing, but to stay true to what all the studies
have said, and what I think the majority of people in Southold who have
supported scenic byways, the 48 Study, that we really want the open
space, the vistas, the things that are so unique and special throughout our
community preserved for the town, because if Route 48 looks like where I
used to live in. Merrick, where I used to live by.Sunrise Highway, I am
not going to stay !here. My children are not going to stay here, and my
grandchildren ,are not coming. So, in a long run the kinds..,of decisions that
will keep the areas; ,special is certain areas, and zoned certain ways, are .in
the best public interest and make the most economic sense, and make the
most business sense in the long run. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like
to address the Town Board?
FRANK WILLS: My name is Frank Wills- I am a resident of Mattituck. I
have been around here close to forty years. I have heard yesterday quite a
few people who own property on 48, who have a business there, who will
rezoned, and the indication of emotional feeling I got was that they thought
they were going to be put out of business. I am certain that is not the
case and the intent. The intent I believe is to control and regulate the
future expansion of what is going on in 48, and from on, and hopefully to
limit what could happen, because it isn't it will go back to 58 and go
further east, further west, and see what kind of horrors happened, unless
they are forever, unless we have an earthquake, or some other catastrophe
the bulldozers will never remove all the buildings, and the stuff. The trees
will be gone and so forth. When I built my house back in '63 there were
really very few regulations and rules even though I had no background at
all in electrical work I was allowed to put my own electric work, I was a
business tech with the Long Island Lighting Company. If you go further,
a few years after that, I have several acres, and one of which was
separated from where my house is. The zones were changed from one to two
acres- If you -go back probably forty or fifty years there may have been
any zone. I think we have found quite that our nature, whatever it is,
egos, enlargement, greed, whatever, we want to do what we want to do,
forget everybody else. We have learned through many, many years that
doesn't work anymore. The old days, and when I started working people
were allowed to work six days a week, eight, nine hours a day. I had to
work a half a day on Saturday, very inconvenient. Eventually that
changed. What I am trying to make is we have found that even though our
own freedom is very critical, and the Constitution of the Laws protect it.
We do have to think of somebody else. Our neighbors next to us up here a
mile away basically represent what is good for the whole of us_ The
majority of us; I believe, the last few votes voted for the kind of thing
that I believe this study is trying to do, to preserve what we have, to
pg 31 - PH
limit the growth, and not let it go as it has in the past. Medical terms
described uncontrolled growth as a cancer- Most of you know what happens
when you get one of those. I have been there, so I know. So my request
and suggestion to you is to seriously consider what is recommended in the
Cramer Study, to approve it, and assure people who are in business on 48,
unless you add 25 in addition to this. It is surprising that wasn't included
in the study. But, no, you are not going to put it on, but any future
growth or changes will be controlled or limited.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN; Thank you for your comments. Would anyone
else like to address the Town Board?
TYLER CORNELL: Tyler Cornell. For my understanding is there any
possibility of it addressing speakers previous who have spoken on their
feelings about their view on the moratorium on 48?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Give it to me again, Tyler_
TYLER CORNELL: May I ask the previous speakers a question as to their
feelings on the Route 48 Study? The two people that just spoke, I was
wondering if I may ask them a question?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I think they expressed their position. I don't
want to get into a debate going back and forth, so why don't you ask the
Board the question, and then if they feel free they can answer. Okay?
TYLER CORNELL: I realize everyone feels strongly. Once again, I am
wondering how much the people who (unintelligible) are willing to
compensate the owners of the property that will be affected by a minimum
of $2,000,000 devaluation of their property? That is the basic question. Who
compensates the owners? My father started his business in a station wagon
with $1,800 in his pocket. He took his money, and reinvested in the town,
bought property. The valuation of one piece of property goes from
$100,000 plus to $3,000 or $4,000. How does he get compensated?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I don't know. I am saying this, but it has not
been determined if a compensation is due. That is something that is all a
part of any future discussion. That input has been given by many, many
of the owners, that they feel if you are going to take their property
rights, and change them that they should be compensated. Okay?
TYLER CORNELL: Does the Board have a plan to ask the people in favor of
the Route 48 changes as to how much they are willing expend personally to
keep those changes alive?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: The subject of money hasn't come up at all.
doubt that it (unintelligible)
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I don't even know if you can legally use taxpayer
money to compensate an individual in this kind of a thing- Those are all
unknown questions at this time.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: You are presuming the right to be compensated.
You can't presume that right-
pg 32 - PH
TYLER CORNELL: Well, I am asking.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The question gets sidetracked when you say I have
to be compensated. You know we take the farmer from three acre to two
acre zoning there was no compensation. The farmers said, gee I think my
property was devaluated. Back in 1957, 1956, there was no Zoning Code in
the Town at all, and so when the Zoning Code was put in place it sat there
and said, you are going to have residences here and businesses there, and
industry here, and in 1957 the person who sat there and said, gees,
would have loved to put the sauerkraut plant, or the warehouse, or the
manufacturing facility, but now you are telling me it is residential. No
compensation was on there either.
TYLER CORNELL: Does it seem a little unconstitutional?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: That has been argued and debated in front of the
Supreme Court for a long, long time, and I have always told people who
own property who feel that the Board has gone too far to consult with the
people you are dealing with, the real estate, and the attorneys that you
know, and say, hey, has this gone too far. Is this a taking of my property
as it is understood to be? I don't want to counsel you on whether that has
been proposed here or not, but you know when someone comes in, and
says, gees, I have got a piece of LB property, and I think it ought to go
to B, and if whatever reason the Board grants that.
TYLER CORNELL: I completely agree with your recommendation with the
exception of it would impact (unintelligible). So what can someone in out
position do?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: You certainly made your position really good. I
understand it well.
TYLER CORNELL: It hurts.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: I understand that. All I can see is, I am not your
attorney. I would say, go talk to your attorney, and say, this is what is
proposed, what do you think? Give us the kind of guidance that you would
suggest.
TYLER CORNELL: Back to the original question, is there a plan to get the
information from the public. I mean you are getting it from the owners
right now_
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: This is public hearing.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: This is not just for the owners.
TYLER CORNELL; What does that mean? Does that mean that the owners
have spoken probably four times as much as the non-owners that we win,
or is there a formula?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: There is no formula. We are taking your input.
It will become a part of the entire discussion.
pg 33 - PH
TYLER CORNELL: Once again I appreciate it.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I am going to call if there is anyone else who
would like to speak to the Board before 1 come back to you, Gerry. Well,
do the question quickly.
GERRY WOODHOUSE: I have heard lots of people talk about the fact that
property values will go from $100,000 to $20,000, $3,000, $2,000. if this
changes, and I wonder what evidence there is, or have there been
appraisals, proposed appraisals, that show or link this community or other
communities when changes are made, the direct financial impact, that the
change in zoning laws, as opposed to other things? For example, I lived in
a community where I had a piece of property that in one year it was
$400,000, another year it was worth $200,000. It nothing to do with
anything other than that is the market goes. The .market fluctuates. So I
wondered if anything like that, I don't recall reading the study anything
like that.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We didn't do any appraisals.
GERRY WOODHOUSE: Or if there is anything that is a guideline for
people that might quell some fears about the fact that zoning changes would
have a downsize in terms of the economy as opposed to a upsize in the
value of the property? The property could become more valuable if there is
limited amounts of property for vineyards or agricultural uses- I have seen
so many people come from other areas to purchase agricultural property,
because they want have a vineyard, they want to have a farm. That
property will become more and more valuable the less property there is for
people that want that usage, so is there anything out there that could help
this man back here, other people who are struggling with that issue of
finances?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It is an unknown.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Real estate appraisers can help in that respect.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: But then it is the market.
GERRY WOODHOUSE: You have heard all the nuclear power leaks that
have happened in Japan. You could have something like that happen in
Connecticut again, and the property isn't going to worth anything anyhow,
because there is so many outside things that affect it. So, I think it is
hard for people who own property to get a fair sense of what is going to
happen if there is nothing that can provided for them in terms of.. Is
there any other part maybe Mr. Cramer knows, or other people, is there
any other part of the country where changes have taken place, or other
parts of the state, that can demonstrate the affect of zone changes on
property rights?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Look at our town, look what happened in '83, one
acre to two acre zoning.
GERRY WOODHOUSE: Well, how much is that property worth now?
pg 34 - PH
COUNCILMAN MOORE: That is a rhetorical question. It wasn't meant to
debate as to how it happened, but in the interim you had the stock market
crash and the economy went confluey. In the interim it is backed up, so
GERRY WOODHOUSE: If you hold on to it long enough. I was wondering
if somebody could do some kind of research to see if there is anything that
provides...
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else like to address the
Town Board? I am going to wait and see if there is anyone else, Tyler,
please. Bob?
BOB JENKINS: Perhaps the Town Board could enlighten the audience with
the requirements necessary to build a house, that is .80,000 square feet,
two acres. A two acre parcel costs X number of dollars. A residential
office, which I think is 40,000 square feet, one acre, half the land
necessary to build a house. Hamlet Business which I think is 10,000 square
feet, one quarter of an acre-
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: With water and sewage.
BOB JENKINS: Which certainly is much more valuable if you own two acres
to put eight businesses on it, and Limited Business I believe that is
80,000. That is also two acre zoning. Yes, I would think that different
zoned certainly have different economic values. If you are in one zone, and
requirement are 40,000 square feet, and you switch to another zone, forty
thousand square feet.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Bob. Anyone else like to address
the Town Board?
TYLER CORNELL: Tyler Cornell from Southold. How about some of the
people in the audience, like Bob was trying to do. When I first got out of
college, and I was trying to make money to get back here I started off as a
loan officer for a mortgage bank. Specifically my job to do as efficient as
possible (unintelligible) If I didn't get paid at the end of the week. With
that I came knowing the appraisals, and knowing the property before it was
appraised and what affects the mix use for rezone as we have on our
property. I then became a manager of a part of that bank, and I can
assure you when leases are limited, zones are changed, I won't say
downgraded, but it affects the property values substantially, and the
marketability of that property. You got one person that is living by a
vineyard, agricultural property may be in demand at that point, but what
is definition of demand? You might get double your money if it is worth
from $3,000 to $6,000. You might even get four times, say, $16,000 or
$21,000, but the current zoning of our property particular over $100,000 it
is worth, even if we got that $16,000 or $20,000 for it if agricultural was
in demand. It is not in demand the same way that the Zoning Map currently
has this. (unintelligible)
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board?
(No response.) We will come back at five. At five we will be going again
pg 35 - PH
for the second time, Mattituck 1A, 113, and at six we go to Mattituck 2A,
2B and 2C. Then our hearings will continue through the 7:00, 8:30.
5:00 P.M.
Public Hearing on Mattituck 1A, Mattituck 1B.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Public hearing remain open because the neighbor to
my north, I just spoke to him on the phone, and he is indicated he would
like to join in the protest of the zone change on that piece by submitting
his own 265 Town Law protest, as a adjoining property owner. The remarks
that I made yesterday were specific to the piece, and I think that
supplements those remarks, and I wanted to get them into the record- Will
the hearing be open until October 12th?
JUSTICE EVANS: The 14th.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I will have that protest to you in the next few days.
One other question was in regard to the filing of the Environmental Impact
Statement underlining this study, has there been a finding statement made
on that?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: We did-
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Finally attached to the specific comments is Saland
Real Estate's letter, also the survey of the parcel. I attached a one page
general comment addendum to the public hearing comments, which I think
some of the forms have been before, but I just wanted to make sure that
they were in a the record. I think I will leave a, what do they call that,
teaser for you to read the entire written presentation, because you have
the last pages and it is general comments in regard to the study, and I
think with that I have said what I need to say, except I want to say one
final thing. I was last night, as I was watching the Met win, 1 had
occasion to review, because I know that you all have the County Road 48
Corridor Land Use Study Recommendation discussion, and I found in regard
to M1 I found two questions, and answers that struck me as unexpected,
and they are these. On page 3 if this particular strip is unexpected in view
of the comments in the underlying study about vistas, does the present
site, and he is referring to all the M1 sites, include scenic views known to
be important to the community? Answer, no. So, if this site inclusive of
my piece does not include scenic views know to be important to the
community, then certainly the underlying reason of protection of the vista
is not as essential-.is not present to the underlying zone change. The
second answer that surprised me is on page 6, is the proposed action
consistent with the recommended uses adopted with the recommended uses in
adopted local land use plan? Yes, and this is a reiteration of a point I
made earlier, and sit down. The reason that that M1 is zoned the way it
is, as you know, is from the '89 study, that they wanted to have hamlet
areas expand not east-west, but with the hamlets, and his proposed
rezoning may be consistent with his plan, but the question is the proposed
action consistent with the recommended uses in adopted local land use
plans. He answers, yes, at least in regard to that rather important point-
The answer should be, no. That if you are going to do this on N1 you are
going to have to determine that the '89 idea is a bad idea of having
pg36-PH
extensions of the hamlet onto North Road, so as to avoid extensions of
commercial development running east-west. You want it on north-south. I
think that answer more correctly should have been, no, because the
proposed action is inconsistent with the recommended uses. In adopted local
land use 1 would argue on the proposed use. That is all I have to say,
and I thank you for listening.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else like to address the Town
Board? Mr. Foster?
ARTIE FOSTER: Good evening. I am Artie Foster. I own property in
the area of these proposed zone changes. This proposed change will not
affect my zoning, but it will hurt me another way. I am presently zoned
Light Business. Prior to 1989 we were zoned in the heaviest business use_
My property in '58, housed bulldozer sales and service business, Kenneth A.
Pappish. It now houses my business, which is heavy, equipment also, but
not in the service business. Next to the off premises :as well as Town and
County road signs this was voted the worse vista in town. The properties
on either side of me are scheduled to be changed from LIO to R80, low
density housing, are now non-conforming but pre-existing. The piece
across the street is where Lieb would like to place his winery. This will
also go to R80 and change. On the northeast corner we have a small strip
type mail shopping center, and me on the catty-cornered to it. I can see
the writing on' the wall. If this is changed to R80 and houses are built next
to me it will restrict me in operating my business as I do now. Usually
ride to work around five in the morning to prepare for the upcoming day,
and in preparation I start up trucks bulldozers, and sometimes some
welding repairs to do which involves cutting, grinding., sledgehammer noise
and so forth. This work is done primarily outside, and is really quite loud
and I am sure it is going to be quite unacceptable at .5:30 in the morning-
So, if you rezone this. adjourning land to residential, and houses are built
on this property it won't be long before my residential neighbors will be
trying to dictate my hours of operation, and the condition of my property,
which I try to keep as neat as possible considering the use is for due to
my line of work- How much noise or even how dust may be created by the
trucks pulling on my property. There is one issue l think everyone should
be aware of., and that is traffic. Since the road was. resurfaced a few
months ago we have gone from a dangerous intersection to -a deadly one.
The screech of tires out there now since they brought all of this to one
lane is about a frequent as sneezing in a pepper factory; and I mean, we
are constantly running out there to see did it happen, or didn't it
happen- Before we used to have cars jock into positipn 'primarily in front
of me, and on the other side heading east and west„ now, because of the
lane changing it extends all the way down to Horton's` Lane, and see Bill
smiling- He has experienced it I am sure. So, it hPs really gotten kind of
worse, and it is another prime spot for a traffic light. As Mr_ Dart said in
his presentation yesterday that. what better place $o have a business at a
controlled intersection. I strongly urge that this zoning change not be
done. Leave the present zoning in place and perhaps you might consider
changing my zoning back to LIO, so that I will no longer be
non-conforming, and can establish my property values to what they were
before the zone change in 1989, and you know it all comes down to money-
When you decrease the intensity of use it devaluates the land, and I had
my land sold for $650,000, and a totally prospective buyer found out that
pg37-PH
he could not use the land for it's intended use. But he could have prior to
the zone change in a '89_ Of course, we were unaware of that, and didn't
know about it until after the fact, but now I am trying to get $300,000 for
the property, and I can't seem to do that, because of the lack of uses, so
guess it means I am sentenced to a life of work with no retirement,
because my retirement fund has lost it's value due to the wishes of the
previous Town Board. It appears to me that this present Board is heading
down the same 48, 48 corridor which may be a vista for some but a
financial disaster for others. That is basically all I have to say. I have
a copy of this if you would like it for the record.
SUPERVISOR .000HRAN: Would you please. We would appreciate it. Anyone
else like to address the Town Board?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Artie, you mentioned that you have the honor
of been selected as the ugliest property in town a number of times. I
guess there is sort of a reverse prize there, or something. Have you ever
considered taking the cesspool structure away?
ARTIE FOSTER: Yes, I did. I consider it, but I told Mrs. Cochran that
if she could get Bob Schroeder to get his down, I would take mine down.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Why would you the gentleman...
ARTIE FOSTER: Well, actually that was depicted in the paper as cesspool
rings, and nondescript businesses they said, but actually there is a lot
worse spots than that in town.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: This was a contest, and the public voted on it.
The public selected you, but I think it was as much the wires and
telephone poles as it was your cement.
ARTIE FOSTER: That was going to be my next statement. The signage
that is is in that area...
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Is heavy.
ARTIE FOSTER: There is two or three off premises signs, which showed
up in that picture that don't even belong to me, but they kind of picked
me out as, you know they said nondescript businesses, and there is this
big sign, Artco Drainage. That doesn't seem very nondescript to me. So,
I am not blaming anybody for that. I just mentioned it, because you know
this is all about a vista. There is no vista there. It doesn't really make
a lot of sense to try and create one.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You couldn't afford that much advertising,
Artie.
ARTIE FOSTER: You wouldn't believe the phone calls.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I am sure. Anyone else like to address the Town
Board?
pg38-PH
DELORES PRINCIPI: I am Delores Principi_ I know I mentioned it last
time. I know that one of your real concern is the traffic- I do not see how
,you can make our pieces, RO with houses with children- School buses have
to stop and pick up the children, and that stops traffic both ways, and if
your concern is vista and traffic flow you have to consider school buses
when you are going to make all of this residential. I know I said it last
time. I just wanted to reiterate.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Good- Now it is in the record. Also I would like
to enter into the record, I had letter in my folder in my office from Ellen
Hufe, sent certified mail, and I will give it to the Town Clerk, and it
becomes a part of the record, of which the Town Board will get a copy.
Anyone else like to address the Town Board? (No response.) If not we will
come back at 6:00 o'clock, and we will be doing Mattituck 2A, 2B and ,2C.
At 7:00 we continue with Mattituck.
k k ]C
6:00 P.M.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We will be taking input on Mattituck 2A,
Mattituck 2B, and Mattituck 2C. Now, over here we do have, which you
might want to call a program, and it tells you what is scheduled and the
listing of the people's names if anyone wants a copy. If not, Bill, will you
please read the tax number and the owner of the properties in this section
of Mattituck proposed change?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Properties being talked about now are 141-3-43,
which is property of Alice Funn, 141-3-44 Clarence Booker and others,
141-3-45.1 Mattie Simmons, 141-3-45.2 North Fork Housing Alliance,
141-3-41 George Penny Inc-, 141-3-21 Harry Charkow and Wife, 141-3-19
New York State Hostel #1077, 141-3-26 Joseph and Janet Domanski,
141-3-27. Margaret Ashton, 141-3-28 Raymond Nine, 141-3-25.1 Raymond
Nine, 141-3-29.2 Arnold Urist, part of 141-3-38.1 Geroge Penny Inc.,
141-3-22 Raymond Nine, 141-3-32.1 William Guyton, 141-3.29.1 John J.
Sidor, Jr. and Others.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. We would like to thank you for
joining us, and at this time anyone that would like to address the Town
Board we will be happy to take your comments. Mr. Penny?
GEORGE PENNY IV: Thank you again. George Penny. I have here a new
set of petitions with a different number on them against the rezoning. As I
mentioned at the earlier, unless there is a mix up somewhere to make sure
that I am covered, I have a second set- 1, also, have six copies of the
letter here regarding our commercial borrowing from North Fork Bank that I
can share with all.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thanks, George.
GEORGE PENNY IV: There are somewhere in the neighbor of 32 or 35 of
us, although not everybody is here tonight, and one of the questions, or
one of the things that have been a topic lately, as I tried to explain to
people why the Town would want to change my zone. I thought the
pg 39 - PH
opportunity would be here for the Town to explain to everybody here
present why they want to change the zone, because I believe it is your
obligation to do so. It is on the Town's own motion, and yet it has never
been explained to me, or to anyone else that I am aware of. As it was
explained today, at an earlier session, traffic seems to be a major
consideration, and if somebody from the Town Board would care to fill us in
here, so that we can all have a greater understanding of why the Town is
acting in this direction.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I would be very happy to answer, George,
first. If anyone else would like to they certainly can feel free. I have
said this in one of the other sessions that the main reason for limiting
certain types on the. Main Road, is to keep your hamlets healthy, to keep
your businesses in the hamlets. As you know, if you look to the west, and
this is' a philosophy of planning, okay? I am not stating my position at
this time, and I will not do that until I have all the 'input from everyone,
and we talk with the fellow that wrote the plan, and we come• up with some
compromises, solutions, whatever. But, intent, the main intent in my mind
was to keep business in the hamlets'. You can look to Riverhead, Central
Islip, on on, on agaan, where business has left the hamlets; and gone up
on bypasses be it Wesconsett,. be it Riverhead, be it Smithtown Bypass.
It goes on and on- and on. Another thing the plan talks about in
philosophy is vista, another one traffic. The business, are lower density,
demand for traffic, which you can argue that also, but that is the
philosophy of planning for the future, and that is what we are looking at.
No decisions have been made.
GEORGE PENNY IV: I understand that. You talked in generality, but
specifically how would changing the zone of Penny Lumber, which is not
allowed in the hamlets, we are a light industrial property, who have been
in business for 109 years, how will changing our zone help in any way, or
what is the reason for changing our zone?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It is part of the plan. It is not my
recommendation. It is part of the plan in changing- I won't make my
comments now in relation to your property, George, not until we are
finished with the whole process.
GEORGE PENNY IV: I don't want to put anybody on the spot, except that
I feel from what read, and what I heard that we are entitled to have an
answer, and it has been very difficult, if you can't explain it to me how
can explain it to everybody at work what is going on. One thing I would
like to see addressed, I don't want to spend a lot of time, because I know
there is a lot of other people here who would like to talk, but
approximately a quarter mile east of us under this plan the Town is talking
about increasing the intensity of several parcels of property on Mattituck
Creek. Now, I have spent quite a bit of time on the Town Board, and when
we did them whenever we discussed marinas there has always been quite an
impact of traffic, etc., etc., depending on how many slip are put in. Does
anybody know that in this plan, or this grand scheme of thing how slips
could be put into Mattituck Inlet?
pg 40 - PH
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: I don't think any marina plans have come
forward for that zone, so no one really knows. You are right. It probably
would increase the intensity of use.
GEORGE PENNY IV: In the planning process when you address the change
of the zone somewhere along the line the impact from that change of zone
has to be addressed. I mean you are not going to make 20 acres marine,
and expect to have one slip. I mean if you are going to do something that
is supposed to be of benefit to the town somewhere along the line that
impact should measured.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The consultant talking about the M zone, those
were some ideas that he has. presented for us to mull over. He also has said
that in that particular instance in that area is going to require far more
additional analysis, and he doesn't recommend that we take action that way.
That was part of the look at the Corridor Study, that recommended idea
that he has, but has not acknowledged to us it is going to require
analysis. He wouldn't expect us, or suggest to us to enact an M2 zone up
there without further study. He said that area by itself would justify a
study all by itself.
GEORGE PENNY IV: I just want to repeat that Penny Lumber has been on
the present site, and is existing. It is not a figment of somebody's
imagination. It is not a Planner's dream. It is not something that is in the
grand scheme of somebody's future- We have been there since 1890, and yet
you asking us when you look at this as an overall project you are asking
us to sacrifice, because of something on Route 48, or for some greater need
for the community to reduce traffic. Meanwhile two blocks or approximately
a quarter of mile east of us you are saying that it is perfectly alright
that you are going to take the traffic away from you, Penny Lumber, and
we are going to make you non-conforming, but in the meantime we are
going to increase the density less than a quarter mile from you in an area
that may never be developed- I heartily feel that this is part of an unjust
plan. I would like, at some point, for somebody to be able to explain the
rational of how two intense changes can happen. One may not happen
because it requires more study, but it doesn't require any more study, just
a decision of four or five people on a Town Board to take mine away. We
are already in existence.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, George. Anyone else like to address
the Town Board?
DON SAYRE: My name is Don Sayre from Southold. I work for Penny
Lumber, and have been there 25 years. I am opposed to this change of
zoning in Mattituck, because it may affect my job, the business. We have
over thirty employees working at Penny's Lumber, and they all signed
letters that I want to present to the Board in opposition to this change-
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thanks, Don. Anyone else like to address the
Town Board?
ARNOLD URIST: I am Dr. Arnold Urist. I have a small medical practice
in an old white frame building by the railroad tracks on Love Lane, and
currently we have the office on the ground floor, and we have a one room
`pg41 - PH
apartment that we rent to a tenant. Now, with the rezoning, one, can I
keep my office and rental apartment the same way, and if and when I sell
the property can it be sold as an office/apartment for rent? And, what
happens to my taxation with this rezoning? Will it go up? Will it go
down? What does this do for my property value? What does it do for
taxation? What does it do for my property utilization?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Sounds what you have right right now is exactly
what your RO district would allow. If the Code changes it will be exactly
what you are doing.
ARNOLD URIST: We don't have more than two or three, in any given
hour more than two or three cars.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Professional office fits right into that zoning district.
ARNOLD URIST: So, that is no problem. What happens to the taxes,
the tax rate in comparison to the rest of the Town of Southold, Mattituck,
or whatever?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: I would check that with the Assessor, and see if
you been on Industrial.
ARNOLD URIST: What happens when I sell the property? When I sell
the property will the new owners be able to do the same, have an office
and an apartment?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: It is part of RO zoning.
ARNOLD URIST: Thank you.
MATTIE SIMMONS: Supervisor, members of the Board, my name is
Mattie Simmons, and right here it says that my property will change from
Light Industrial to Hamlet Business district. I just would like the meaning
of that. I am not familiar with that, and what it could do to my home.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Presently your property is zoned for Industrial type
uses, even though you have your residence on it_ The proposed list will
take yours to Hamlet Business, which could allow certain commercial uses of
it, as listed in the Hamlet Business Zone. It doesn't, as far as your
residence goes, you can continue to maintain your residence on your piece
of property-
MATTIE SIMMONS: What kind of business, light business, because before
we were down here to speak, Mr_ Rosen, and Alice Funn, and I, our
house, his house is in between our home and so far we haven't ever heard
just what is happening, and we live from day to day not knowing what will
be in that house next door, or who will buy it. No one has heard anything
at all.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: The house between yours and Alice's?
MATTIE SIMMONS: Yes.
6
pg 42 - PH
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Everything has been stopped because of
moratorium. Everything was in 1,000 feet of Route 48, so therefore your
property does come in that category- Everything is on hold.
MATTIE SIMMONS: It stopped because of that?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Right.
MATTIE SIMMONS: In the meantime it can be sold? The only thing we
are interested in learning about is that could be some commercial business
being there, put there, and this what we have for a long time concerning
that, so when the change comes what we will we be able to put that,
between us? What kind of business?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: The same kind of shops that you might find in
downtown Mattituck, the center, a shop, a barber shop, a grocery store.
MATTIE SIMMONS: Well, this is what I am concerned about. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Mattie. Anyone else like to
address the Town Board? I am going to take Mr. Rich.
JAMES RICH: Thank you, Mrs. Cochran, members of the Town Board.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you. Please excuse my
appearance. I just came from soccer practice for the kids, so I want to do
that. Along those lines is something people involved with small businesses,
local businesses have to do, Little League, soccer, things like that.
mean, Clinton said it takes a village, and I believe it does. I am somewhat
nervous but I am one of thirty employees from George L. Penny, Inc.,
which does business under Penny Lumber. Many of us are here today to,
you know, basically oppose this rezoning. As a former business owner
myself, and I still do own a pretty big piece of commercial real estate. You
know, we pay a tremendous amount of taxes, have paid it, and the
flexibility of the property is of course part of the value, part of the
appraised value as George said when he spoke, and it could have a
detriment on the value on our property. I am very much aware, and I am
sure you are how difficult it is to run a small business in a town like
Southold or Mattituck, and Penny Lumber has been in business for 109
years. It really can't represent any change in the vista because you
stopped to think this place has been here before my father was born,
before my grandfather was born, and tentatively before anybody in the
whole town, since Carl Vail died. How many thousands of dollars the
Penny family has paid in property taxes over the years. I have no idea,
but I can only imagine, because I know what I have paid in the last two
years, located between a dual highway, 48, and an LIR, I don't think
that there is a better function for this piece of property than what is
being used right now. The property is really suited only for what it is.
don't think it is really suited for residential property, and again, we have
been there for 109 years. The last thing I want to say is the problem' of
rezoning right now, I mean you can't force us out of business, but if you
cripple our ability to react to the future, how are going to handle
additions, if we God forbid had a fire, tried to build, and things like
that. That is my point. Thank you very much.
~ B
b pg43-PH
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you very much.
ABIGAIL WICKHAM: Just following up on Mrs. Simmons. Alice Funn
contacted me today, because she is working this evening, and unable to
appear, but she asked me to submit this, and make that part of the record.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Gail.
ABIGAIL WICKHAM: Can I give you a couple of more? I also want to
apologize. 1 misread the notice on Mr. Nine. I handed his papers up
earlier, and I would ask that the letter and protest that filed be part of
the record- I also would like to appear tonight on behalf of Mr. John
Sidor and Martin Sidor. They own the Light Industrial at Section
141-3-29.1, which is immediately adjacent. to the Long Island Railroad
Station in Mattituck. Something that Jean mentioned at the hearing
yesterday, that has been sticking with me, and while .1 didn't disagree with
what she said it has been tugging at me, and that.was the comment which
think you just repeated, that we don't want to see Route 48, which a rural
bypass, turn into something like Nesconsett Highway, which we all
remember years ago was a rural bypass, and is now clogged with
development and traffic. One thing you didn't say, or maybe I missed it,
was that we also -I don't want to see Route 48 become another Route 24
Where on the south side you have houses springing up.in every single farm
field, and I think that the Sidors and most of us that live put here do
value the vistas of Route 48, and what you are trying to do to protect
them. The fact that you are buying development to try and protect the
vistas, but what this plan doesn't do, and what has been bothering me, is
don't think it in any way really does protect the business of Route 48 at
the extent that it could, because it doesn't address the `owners of the vast
expanses of Route'' 48 of the residential property from siprinkling their land
with house. Now, clustering would move it back somewhat, but stiJI you
could have incredible amounts of development, that would-effect all of these
long stretches of farmland that we now have- Instead. what the plan is
doing is singling out the limited number of mostly business owners, that are
in these pockets along Route 48 where, because of the".small areas they are
in, there is really not much room to do anything, lse. ~So, instead of
addressing, you kind of skipped over this whole YpoX4rhial,problem of the
residential areas, and singled out the business ownerst but you haven't
said they can't build. All you have done is said, noW lAfiey can't build the
.same thing that the could before, they are building a. lesser type of
intensive use. So, you are not really saying they Gantt' have structures up
there. You are just giving them different buildings they could build of
lesser value- So, you are devaluating their propeitAe~, and not really
addressing some of the other problems that could, happen on Route 48, and
do think you are purchasing development rights and,`.all those things you
are trying to accomplish are very good, but for insfanre, Mr. Sidor isn't
even on Route 48, and yet he is being told that his property can no longer
be used for many of the uses that it is now more suilz for. I have, and
would like to submit to the Board two things. One isl a letter that I have
written that more specifically addresses the concerps: I will read it if you
like, and also a 265 protest that Martin and John Sidor, who owns the
property. The Sidors are here tonight. They asked mp 'to speak on their
behalf. Specifically they object to the propose& rezoning, because the
resulting uses their property would be put would drazstira!lly be reduced. It
t J
e pg44-PH
wouldn't be suitable to the size and area of the property, are not in
conformity to the stated goals of preserving vistas, and reducing traffic,
and would substantially diminish the value of their property- They have
used this property for many years as a potato grading operation They have
a very large building on the property, which is located right on the
southerly property boundary of the Long Island Railroad. The property is
bounded on the west by Westphalia Road, across from which is Light
Industrial zoning improved with several concrete block buildings located on
the street line and a large brick warehouse. The property is bounded on
the north by Raymond F_ Nine's sand and gravel operation- If the property
were to be rezoned, as you propose, from Light Industrial to Limited
Business, it would significantly devalue the property because the many uses
now permitted would no longer be allowed- Those currently permitted uses
are much better suited to the size and location of the;,.property and the
large building on it than those in the proposed zoning. :The °uses that are
now permitted, which would be lost, would include mach ne and equipment
workshops, publishing and printing plants, light :industrial. usage,-' boat
building and storage, cold storage contractor's businesses or yards,
research laboratories, conference facilities, and boat:. `repair. The very
limited <retaif use and other uses that would be permitted "by Light Business
zone would not compensate for the devaluation of the property. There are
very limited retaH uses which are restricted, and they are not of the type
where substantial property value is attainable. Those uses are antiques,
arts and crafts, garden shops and galleries. Other retail uses are not
permitted. Moreover by permitting that limited type retail: zoning you would
be actually increasing the traffic considerations, which ymuld normally be
associated with the Light Industrial type of uses. Given the current
screening and other site requirements as the Planning board Proposes these
uses if 'they were developed at this point in the Light 'industrial zone could
be constructed to shield them from other propertiest and nobody knows
better than attorneys been battling with the Planning Braid for 25 years on
site plan, and they do their job, I am criticizing them;: I am not saying
they shouldn't,,,,but they are very cautious about things like screening; and
assess, and ingress, so there are protections in the Code that they carry
out that will ihsuilate neighbors from these types of uses- Another objection
is that the location of the. property, there is no relatl[onships to the vista
on Route 48, or Route 48 traffic considerations The location is not
advantageous to Limited Business uses. It is locattW at the Railroad
station with only a few feet between the building and: the railroad tracks,
so those businesses would be subjected to the noise and the vibration
associated with the train traffic coming in, going out, passing throuyh_ A
Limited Business type of use would find that probably much less offensive.
Also the only frontage, which is along Westphalia on the north side of the
railroad tracks does not make for a viable retail location„ because it does
not provide, or a, -professional office location, because, its does not provide
visibility. I would also like to mention that the logist al problem. we have
here' with the proposed zoning district changes tak ng affect before a
decision on what uses would be allowed in those zones' also because the
owner is very difficult predicament of not really knowin` what we should be
objecting to. For those reasons the Sidors do objct to the proposed
rezoning of their property from Light Industrial to Light Business. Thank
you.
r D
+ pg 45 - PH
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Gail. Anyone else like to address the
Town Board? Yes, ma'am?
EILEEN SANTORA: My name is Eileen Santora. I work at Penny
Lumber. Proud to work there. You are talking about the future, but you
have to remember our past. Penny Lumber has been there a long time, and
that is one of the reasons why (unintelligible)
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. I will take this gentleman.
BOB MCCARTHY: My name is Bob McCarthy. I am the acting manager
of Penning Flooring Center, and I would just like you to ask to, please,
stop the change- I don't personally think it is needed. Thank you.
MICHAEL HAND: Good evening. My name is Michael Hand_ I am an
employee of Penny Lumber, and I would just like to let you know that I am
against the zone changes that you want -to do_ I also would like to add that
if you change the zones you make it harder for businesses to open. You
will encourage other businesses in Riverhead to open, and take tax money
out of this town and bring it to another town.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else like to address the
Town Board? (No response-) We will conclude then the 6:00 o'clock listings
for the Mattituck area, and we can not start the next set until seven, so
we will take a short break and we will be back at 7:00. Thank you.
. 7:00 P.M_
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN! This section of the hearings will be Mattituck 2D,
Mattituck 2E, Mattituck 2F, Mattituck 2G. Bill will read the tax number of
the parcel and the owners name.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The properties involved are 141-3-39 Robert
Boassi, part of 140-2-32 John Divello and Others, 141-3-18 Jeffrey
Gregor, 141-3-40 Andrew Fohrkolb, 140-1-10 Mark McDonald, 140-1-11
Steven Freethy and Deborah Gibson Freethy, 140-1-12 Henry Pierce and
Jennie Lee, 140-1-4 Raymond Smilovich, 140-1-9 Herbert Swanson,
140-1-6 Harold Reeve and Sons, Inc., 140-1-6 Harold Reeve and Sons
Inc.,140-1-7 Rita Poneiglione, 140-1-8 Helen Reeve, 140-1-1 Stephanie
Cullatt, 140-1-2 Leroy Heyliger and Wife,140-1-3 Mr. and Mrs. William
Stars.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to
address the Town Board in relation to any of these parcels? Sir?
JOHN DIVELLO: John Divello, Mattituck. I just want to read a letter-
I drafted this letter in response to the notification I received in the
mail, one by regular mail and one certified. It involves an acre and one
half that runs along the south side of the Long Island Railroad. The
property is 100 feet wide by 600 feet long. We bought this Light Industrial
property for the future business expansion some twenty-two years ago- In
1983 my parents called and told me they wanted to come back 'to New York
because living in a retirement community in Florida was very depressing-
pg46-PH
Just about every day they would hear of another neighbor that passed
away, but they wanted to remain independent. As we were not using most
of the property at that time we put a modular home on one sixth of the
property. My parents moved in within three day- My father passed away
five years ago, and my mother lives there alone at eighty-eight years old,
may she live another eighty-eight, but when the time comes I plan on
removing the 'house- I understand that the Town Board wants to
downgrade the zoning to Residential Office. My office is at the other end
of the block along the railroad tracks, and believe me you do no conduct
business when the train is going by with the horns 'blasting, as Bill
knows. The property is located on Hill Street, Mattituck, and it is very
appropriately as the property drops off drastically and the Long Island
Railroad becomes a natural berm. You can not see Route 48 and vise
versa. What the Town Board is proposing is the, complete: opposite of what
real estate is supposed to ' do over time. Most real. estate appreciates with
time but here with a stroke of a pen the town will depredate my yproperty.
strongly oppose this change of zoning of my property- ',T+hank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you very much. Anyone else like. to
address the Town Board?
DOUGLAS TONNEY: My name is Douglas Tonney. I am an attorney
(unintelligible) I represent Jeffrey Gregor. He is the owner of a parcel of
vacant land on the corner of Lipco Road and Route 48. It is tax lot 18,
and block 3. It is 1.87 acres. It is Mattituck 2D change of zone- The
recommended change of zone for my client's parcel is from Light Industrial
to Residential 40. My client opposes this change would clearly reduce the
value of 'his property, and it would eliminate any possibility of developing
it for the purpose of which it was intended when he purchased it in 1998_
By the way, after making sure that the zoning was Light Industrial. We
certainly recognize your legislative prerogative to change the zoning of
this property, but we question why the recommendation is subject to the
rest of that change through three zoning classifications to Light Industrial
to Hamlet Business zone, the Limited Business Zone to Residential Office
Business zone. I may be wrong but review of the entire Land Use Corridor
Study does not find any other parcel other than. the three and four that
are located ..in Mattituck 2D. Most of the recommended changes from the
Light Industrial properties on other parcels along the corridor, which were
either HB, LB, or RO: Nothing other than that in 2D is recommended to
R40. The proposed change immediately to the east of us from Light
Industrial to RO. Immediately opposite us is for Light Industrial to
Business. The proposal for the corridor Route 48 is LB, so we don't
understand the rationale for going all the way from LI to R40. We certainly
recommend and support the concept of trying to eliminate the
commercialization of Route 48. My client is a family owned plumbing well
drilling busfness. Your new proposed legislation for the LB allows for
contractors, that is what we ask you to consider for our piece. R40 seems
to be very impractical for this. We have three road frontages, which gives
us three front yards, a rear yard, no sides. Even if we were to subdivide
this parcel into four acre zoning we would be left with 50 foot setbacks all
the way around, and eliminate fifty percent of our lot, on both lots. We
would ask you to consider going from LI to LB_ Thank you.
pg47-PH
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else like to address the
Town Board?
CHIP PENNY: My name is Chip Penny. I work at Penny Lumber. I am
kind of a new full time resident of the community, and I am not a business
owner, but I plan to be one. I am kind of new to this plan also. 1 only
read about it in the paper, and what I have heard in the last couple of
days, kind of both sides of it. I understand the idea. I love Southold-
That is why I going to live here the rest of my life. I look at this plan,
how it is going to affect my future, and the business has been there for so
long. It has been there 109 years. It has been in my family four
generations. It is unbelievable, because you have people here that have
these businesses, or have their futures. You know, you got the guy that is
here that bought the property,to expand on later in his life, and you.know
you go with this plan, he- can't do that. That's his investment night there.
You know, he is paying taxes on that property, and we have.<a .business
that 'is' pretty much. we are not really going anywhere. right now, z.but we
might have to sometime, because of some reason. So, I am looking at our
picture right here of our Mattituck location. We have our flooring center on
Route 48. Now, Cod forbid something happened to that. We had a fire
there, and you change our zone, that is it. Our business is dead. We have
a lot sitting on. Route 48, and talking about this marina property like a
quarter mile away, our zoning for marina, the amount; of traffic generated
at our flooring: center is nothing- 1 mean compared to what a marina
generates. This is kind of scary, because this is all off the tap of my head
here-
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: No problem. You are doing well.
CHIP PENNY: The planner that went through this community to do this is
not from this community. I mean just looking at it, it seems to me like he
went through Port Jefferson, and went, oh, this looks like nice. Let's try
to do it here. I mean, how can you change Lipco Road and Route 48 to
a...to a, oh, look residential property looks nice. Oh, let's put
residential here. You know you are playing games with these people's
future, with their money, and I mean you look at the other side of our
property on the Main Road, or the Old Main Road, I am not sure of the
name of the road, but we have where the railroad tracks meets the road we
have a potato barn, that we use for storage, and that want to change that,
too. I don't know the exact designation of the property but you know,
what if we have fire in that place? Our business is dead. We don't have
anywhere to put our material, which is all inside a barn. It is not like a
lot of lumber sitting out. It is inside of a self-contained unit, and there
has been no reason given for it, besides the fact that, oh, to preserve
hamlet businesses. We are not inside the hamlet, and we are not competing
with anybody inside the hamlet, so I don't see any reason for the change. I
think a lot more has to be done with this, you know, something logical
because this-.look at the way you are affecting everybody in this
community, and it is scary. It is really scary. I don't care how much has
spent on this, it is not worth it. I'm sorry.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Chip. I have only one correction,
Chip. You are not a new resident. You were born and raised here- Yes,
you were, so you are an old resident. Thank you. Anyone else like to
pg 48 - PH
address the Town Board? (No response.) If not, the next series of
hearing will be 8:30, and that is the last one for the day.
8:30 P.M.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We will be taking input on Peconic 1A, and 1B.
Bill, will you please read the tax number and the owner of the properties
in this section of Peconic proposed changes?
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The properties involved are 74-4-10 Chester
Misloski and Others, part of 74-4-9 Andreas and Stacy Paliovras,
part of 74-4-5 John Krupski and Brothers, part of 74-4-9 Andreas and
Stacy Paliovras, part of 74-4-5 John Krupski and Bros, Inc.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Is there anyone here that would like to address
the Town Board on any of these property changes?
THOMAS MCCARTHY: I would like to present petitions on my property
to the Town Board for the record.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like
to address the Town Board? (No response.) We will adjourned this meeting
until tomorrow-
Elizabeth A. Neville
Southold Town Clerk
SPECIAL MEETING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD
OCTOBER 6, 1999
5:00 P.M.
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON PROPOSED ZONING MAP CHANGES ON ROUTE 48
IN THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Present: Supervisor Jean W. Cochran
Councilwoman Alice J. Hussie
Councilman William B. Moore
Councilman John M. Romanelli
Councilman Brian G. Murphy
Absent: Justice Louisa P. Evans
Town Clerk Elizabeth A. Neville
Town Attorney Gregory F. Yakaboski
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I would like to reconvene the hearing on the
proposed zone changes on Route 48. This evening will be doing Peconic 2A
and 2B in this first segment. Bill will read the tax map numbers of the
properties and who the owners are.
COUNCILMAN WILLIAM D. MOORE: Peconic 2A, SCTM# 1000-74-3-13
Dorothy Victoria and John Mumster; 73-3-14 Sidney Waxler; 74-3-15 Mr. E
Mrs. Edward Dart; 74-4-15 Mr.& Mrs. Paul McGlynn; 74-4-16 Louise Day;
74-3-16 Patrick 1; Robert Adipietro; 74-3-17 Olive Hairston Hayes; 74-5-1
Mr. E Mrs. Bennett Blackburn; 74-5-5 Mr. Robert Johnson.
SUPERVISOR: Would anyone like to address the Town Board in relation to
any of these parcels? At this time? Yes..
LOUISE BLACKBURN, PECONIC: I am sorry that 1 come here kind of
ignorant of the law and the zones, but I received a letter about wanting to
change into a hamlet business district there. I am trying to understand, is
that the property where the school was proposed for? Or is it actually on
Route 48? 1 don't understand...
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We will have to find you on the map first....
MRS. BLACKBURN: We are right on Peconic Lane. That little "L" shaped
piece across from the park or recreation area...
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: O.K. Let me find you, Peconic 2...
MRS. BLACKBURN: 2 B. It is actually under Bennett Blackburn E wife.
I received a letter and it stated that you wanted to change it to a hamlet
business district and 1 am not sure that I understand what property you
are talking about.
COUNCILMAN BRIAN MUPRHY: Your property.
MRS. BLACKBURN: What about the property that was proposed for the
pool? would that include that area also?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: No, that 's going to be a playground with
baseball diamonds, all for children. It will remain a recreation park area
like Tasker Park? O.K.?
MRS. BLACKBURN: O.K. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would anyone else like to address the Town
Board?
(There was no response.)
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Are you sure?
(There was no response.)
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would anyone else like to address the Board in
relation to Peconic 2A or 213? or in general, in relation to the plan? If not,
then we will adjourn until the next hearing at 6:00 P.M.
Time: 5:30 P.M.
6:00 P.M.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: O.K. I am reconvening the hearing on Peconic 2C,
D, and E.
COUNCILMAN MOORE read the SCTM #'s and owners of the property as
follows: 2 C, D, E E: SCTM# 1000-74-3-19.3 Kenneth Dickerson; P/O
74-3-19.2 Kevin Terry; 74-3-20 Alice Platon; 74-3-24.2 Mr. E Mrs. Alvin
Combs.
SUPERVISOR: Thank you. You have heard the parcels we are
discussing. We would appreciate your input? Is there anyone that would
like to address the Town Board?
(There was no response.)
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: If not, we will adjourn this section of the hearing
and at 7:00 P.M. we will take up Southold 1, 2A, 26, and 2C.
Time: 6:20 P.M.
7:00 P.M.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I will reconvene this hearing in relation to
proposed zone changes on Route 48. This hearing will cover Southold 1,
2A, 213, E 2C. Bill will read the lot numbers and the land owner.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: SCTM# 1000-69-4-2.2 Mr. E Mrs. Gerald Gralton;
69-4-2.3 Helmut Haas; 69-4-3 Ruth Enterprises, Inc.; 69-2-1 William
Zebroski, Jr.; 69-2-2 Carol Zebroski Savage & Others; 69-2-3 Steve
Doroski; 69-2-4 Bayberry Enterprises; 69-3-1 Steve Doroski; 69-3-2 Steve
Doroski; 69-3-3 Steve Doroski.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would anyone like to address the Town Board on
any of these parcels?
ROBERT JENKINS, CUTCHOGUE (representing Steve Doroski): Good
Evening. in regard to 69-3-1, 69-3-2, and 69-3-3, you recommended zone
changes from Light Industry over to Agricultural Conservation. I would
just like to re-familiarize everyone with the definition and purpose of
agricultural conservation. The purpose of the agricultural conservation
district and the low density residential district is to reasonably control, to
the extent possible, and to prevent the unnecessary loss of those currently
open lands within the Town containing large and contiguous areas upon
agricultural soil which are the basis for a significant portion of the town's
economy and those areas with sensitive environmental features. Those
three parcels that I just called off contain 2 1/2 acres. We have on that 2
1/2 acres, a barn for the packaging and storage of produce, four
residences for labor, a building used for refrigerated storage and an
additional building used for machinery storage, a loading dock and
driveways to and from the buildings, leaving very little agricultural land on
which to grow in an AC district. So, I would certainly request that the
Board consider keeping that light industrial. It's not suitable for farming.
The second thing that I would like to address is the other parcel 69-2-3.
If I could take three minutes from Mr. Steve Doroski's time, I would like to
read this letter to the Board. He couldn't make it personally, he asked me
to present this letter to you. "Dear Supervisor and Town Board Members:
In 1936 1 rented this parcel of land which extended from what was known
as the North Road, at that time, to Soundview Avenue to the north. Then
in 1953 1 purchased this land from my mother and father-in-law, Mr. E
Mrs. Frank Zaveski. My wife Frances, now deceased, and I farmed this
land and started a small roadside farmstand where we sold our farm
produce, plants and roses we grew on our farm. In 1967 Suffolk County
took 3 acres of my property and divided my farm leaving me with a serious
drainage problem, north and south of the highway, making Route 48 eight
feet higher than my property. Since my farm property was decreased in
size and traffic flow was re-routed off the North Road to Route 48, in 1968
1 built what is now knows as Doroski's Carden Center E Nursery, Inc. At
that time my Garden Center was zoned limited business and has operated as
such all these years and i have paid Limited Business taxes on this
property. My Garden Center faces east on Ackerly Pond Lane and has no
entrances or exits onto route 48. 1 have buffered Route 48 and my
property with trees and landscaping so as to obscure any unpleasantries.
Also on the west side of this property we have planted our nursery stock,
which I feel adds to the rural look of Route 48. My family and I try to
keep our Garden Center attractive to the passerby and a pleasant place to
visit. Today the Southold Town Board wants to change my property to a
Residential office. 1 am opposed to this change as I do not see how an
office building looking like a home can be made out of a greenhouse. Will
my taxes decrease with this change, or will I continue to pay the same tax
rate or more? Also at this time, I do not know what the permitted usage
will be with the new proposed zone land usage changes. i trust that the
elected officials of Southold Town will take the initiative to consider leaving
my family's and my Garden Center as well as my other properties as they
are presently with their present usages. Sincerely, Steve J. Doroski,
Doroski's Nursery, Inc. He encloses a photograph of the drainage problem
at County Road (which Mr. Jenkins presented together with the letter to be
made a part of the file.) If nobody objects, I would just like to address
the issue of the hamlet business and keeping business in the hamlets. I
don't care how old you are or how young you are, everyone can remember
hanging out in the village at their favorite soda shop or sneaking in and
smoking a cigarette illegally, or whatever. I as well as everyone else would
like to see a viable commercial center in every hamlet. But rezoning isn't
necessarily the answer. Good business practices will save the downtown
merchants in the hamlet areas, not zoning. Internet shopping, over the
internet, 1 800 shopping, call L.L. Bean, go to B.J's and other wholesale
clubs, regional malls, all that hurts much more than the few business
properties that are on County Road 48. 1 think that the Town Board might
be better spending their time putting together a economic task force. 1
think they did put together one, but I don't know how far it went to help
all the businesses that are in town continue to operate and exist as best
they can. So, as 1 said, 1 don't know that zoning, or no businesses on
the North Road is going to save those businesses that are downtown. They
are having a hard enough time, they have an awful lot of empty stores
now, and there's very few business on the North Road at this time. That's
all I have to say for now. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Bob. Anyone else like to address
the Town Board? If not we will adjourn, Oh...
ROBERT JENKINS: I just have a few letters from us that I would like to
turn in.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: They will be put in the file and made a part of
the record.
Petition Pursuant to Section 265 of the New York Town Law signed by Steve
J. Doroski protesting against said change of zone were received for SCTM#
1000-69-2-3 as well as six (6) letters from the following individuals saying
that while they are not voting residents of Southold Town, they do shop at
Doroski's Garden Center and are opposed to the zone changes for that
area: John R. Cramer and Theresa A. Cramer; Guy A. Buonincontro and
Barbara Buonincontro; Frank J. Lash; and Patricia Gergyes
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Is there anyone else present who would like to
speak at this time?
(There was no response.)
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: If, not, we will recess until 8:00 P.M.
Time 7:10 P.M.
8:00 P.M.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: At this time I would like to reconvene the County
Road 48 hearings. We will be doing Southold 5B and Southold 6.
Councilman Bill Moore will read the SCTM #'s and property owners.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: The properties involved are #1000-055-5-2.3 Mr. E
Mrs. Gary Rempe; 1000-55-5-4 Linda Bertaini E Others; 1000-55-5-5 Audrey
Berglund; 1000-P/O 055-2-24.2 Frank Field Corp.; 1000-55-2-23 Madeleine
Schlafer; 1000-055-5-10 George Penny IV E Robert Boger; 1000-055-5-11
Joann Rizzo; 1000-055-5-12.2 Mr. E Mrs. Donald Tuthill; 1000-055-5-9.1
Patricia Miloski.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would anyone like to address the Town Board in
relation to any of these properties? Pat?
PATRICIA MILOWSKI, WINDSOND COUNTY STORE: Good evening
Supervisor Cochran and Members of the Town Board. 1 am not going to
repeat my statement from Tuesday which everyone already has a copy of. I
just want to summarize basically what I said. I respectfully request that
the present "B" zoning be kept as such as it has been for over 30 years. 1
have filed two protest petitions in the Town Clerk's Office regarding Town
Law 265. 1 ask that you please re-read my letters to you from August and
September regarding my property and my last statement from Tuesday. I
have requested that all letters and correspondence regarding the opposition
to the zone change be included in this public hearing and also in the
hearings to follow. I have explained the uniqueness of my parcel due to
the two structures, the setbacks from the road, the lot size and map
configuration, the surrounding "B" zone areas including across the street
and how the current C.O.'s clearly fit into business zoning only. I have
explained how changing my zoning from "B" which it has been for over 30
years will create a non-conforming business on a non-conforming lot and
will result in substantial emotional and financial hardship. I have cited
several examples of why Mr. Cramer's report appears to have been
arbitrary and capricious in his proposal to re-zone my property. I have
submitted a letter from a local realtor regarding the dramatic reduction of
property value should a zone change occur. Again, every town in Suffolk
County is against non-conforming uses and in this case, Mr. Cramer is
taking a conforming area and making it non-conforming. I am a woman sole
proprietor of an established country store in this hamlet business
community. This is my only asset. This business was established with my
own hands and finances. A small business has to be allowed to grow within
its permitted uses in order to attempt to serve your customers.
Economically 1 cannot survive or get my investment back, my retirement,
unless you keep my zoning as business. I once again request that the
Town Board reject the proposal to re-zone my property and to keep it
business zone as it has been zoned for many years. Respectfully
submitted, Pat Miloski.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board.
Mr. Guarriello?
ROBERT GUARRIELLO G E S ELECTRIC: John Bertani and myself, Robert
Guarriello purchased the property at 3460 Youngs Avenue ten years ago to
have a place to operate our family business from. We have improved the
property and use it to store material and equipment necessary for our daily
operations. We have our two generations of family and employees that
depend on G E S Electric for their livelihood. You simply cannot take this
away without compensation. It is something that I cannot believe could
happen in this country, not here in Southold. I ask that you put yourself
in my position and stop and think.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Bob. O.K. would anyone else like to
speak?
JOANN SANTORO (RIZZO): Joann Santoro, business and property owner on
Route 48. 1 would like to go on record as being opposed to the zoning
changes that will affect the value of my property. I have owned and
conducted a business on this property zoned "B" for twenty years. Being
a local business person I have supported many organizations and employed
many locals. I am planning retirement within a few years. I am now being
asked to limit what I can sell my property as or what a new owner can use
it for. This greatly reduces potential life and value of my property. I
recently sold a home on Route 48 for $122,000.00 because no one wants to
live on Route 48. We are a relatively small group of business owners on
Route 48 and yet we are being asked to absorb the cost of ensuring open
space for all to enjoy. It comes to mind, that this an unbalanced plan.
Thousands of our taxpayers dollars have been spent on studies and more
studies and yet nothing suggests that all of north fork property owners,
both business and homeowners share the cost of maintaining our rural way
of life. Let's give all of Civil Service Employees advancement tests, and
when they pass and expect promotions, tell them that the rules have
changed. That is what is being proposed as re-zoning, it is not very
different. Why? Let's then, make it against the law to clutter our local
landscaping with hundreds of unsightly political advertisements. Thank you
for your time.
ANN MILOSKI, CALVERTON (PAT MILOSKI'S MOTHER): It is very sad to
have watch these people come up begging to keep their property as it is.
There are only small business owners. Right now, I would like to speak to
the Town Board and Supervisor Cochran, i am speaking on behalf of Pat
Miloski's business property located on Route 48, # 055-5-9.1. Pat Miloski
took on an enormous task to materialize a hope and dream of a unique
country store. When she first leased with an option in 1993, it was with a
condition that she could do retail sales in this business zoned parcel. She
went to the Southold Planning Board and they conferred that the present
zoning was commercial business with a current C.O. for such. She was
told to go to the Building Department and ask an Inspector to come out to
see what she needed to do to obtain a C.O. to retail on the front
building. The Building Inspector came out and informed her of what she
needed to obtain a retail business C.O. She completed the work and the
Building Department Inspector returned and approved it and she received
a C.O. for retail business. The rear building C.O. was already in place
and in use. She continued her enormous task of restoring this beautiful
neglected building and materialized this structure into an upstanding
business within the north shore business hamlet area of Southold. A safe
investment for her family's future. She restored this eyesore with her own
money, no town grants, no tax incentives. Instead of cutting down stately
35 ft. evergreens that blocked visibility, she had them trimmed from the
bottom up, therefore, preserving the trees and giving her the visibility she
needed. Instead of blacktop, which would have been cheaper and easier to
maintain, she searched and found an orange colored dust free flagstone
recycled product that was more in character with the nature of the
building. In 1995 she exercised her option to buy, but first went back to
the Zoning Board to see if everything was in order. They told her the
property was business zoned and retail and current uses with C.O.'s in
place. They also mentioned that she had done a wonderful job with this
property. They further stated that a current Town Board member was part
of the Town's Route 48 Master Plan study that kept the zoning on this
parcel as business. Now you are telling her that after 30 years of business
zoning, you are going to change the zone from business to RO which has
none of the permitted uses that she is doing. I would ask that you reject
the current proposal and keep her zoning as "B" since this is a developed
unique parcel in a business area. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Would anyone else like to address the Town
Board?
JOHN SATKOSKI: I want to go on record that I am opposed to any zoning
changes to my property and all the other properties that are on Route 48.
1 think you rascals better do some looking, deep down.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you , John, what did you call me John, a
rascal, you made me feel young again. A little rascal, Thank you,
John. Anyone else like to address the Town Board? Mr. Penny...
GEORGE L. PENNY, IV: Hi, good evening. Once again, George Penny. I
would just like to ask at this time, have we heard from the Town Planning
Board and the County Planning Commission?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Not yet, George. Not to my knowledge.
MR. PENNY: Not to your knowledge, because I read in last week's paper
that the Planning Board had acted on something over a week ago, it was in
last Thursday's paper...
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Our Planning Board?
MR. PENNY: Yes.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I didn't see it in the paper, we haven't gotten
anything in relation to, it would go through Betty......
MR. PENNY: With regard to my parcel, the one in Southold, George L.
Penny IV and Robert Boger and George L. Penny Incorporated in
Mattituck, two parcels, have there been any other communications which
have normally been part of any public hearing I have participated in. I
would like to know if there is a record of any correspondence regarding my
properties?
TOWN CLERK BETTY NEVILLE: There are approximately 100 proposed
changes and many letters received. My office is still in the process of
sorting them into the individual file folders according to tax map numbers.
COUNCILMAN JOHN ROMANELLI:1 am sure there have. Letters of
protest....I have seen so many letters...
MR: PENNY: That specifically mention my parcels?
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: George, I don't know.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: George, I get stacks like this.. both pro and con
MR. PENNY: I am asking regarding my parcels?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: George, they get sent over to Betty and she will
be making it all a part of the public record and we will have copies, but we
don't necessarily.....
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: There are so many, they are really not sorted
out yet.
SUPERVISOR: We haven't gone through them all yet. We will get that
when we get all of the hearing transcription and everything else. Betty
could check.....
MR. PENNY: I am only asking out of habit because the 8 years that I was
on the Town Board, these were read at the beginning of each hearing and
that's why I am asking, for no other reason. I am not trying to put
anybody on the spot.
COUNCILMAN MOORE: Betty is setting up a separate file for each tax map
parcel and make sure that any letters associated get put into the proper
file.
MR. PENNY: You understand my reason for asking, the eight years that I
was on the Town Board these were read at the beginning of each public
hearing. That's why 1 am asking, for no other reason, I am not trying to
put anybody on the spot.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: What you are saying is when you have a hearing
and you read the public notice, usually attached is any correspondence that
you receive to that point, O.K. There wasn't really any correspondence to
that point, it's All come in after the public notice was printed and as we
have gone through this, during these last few days. We have received
some every day, we've received a form letter in opposition, a form letter in
favor of. Not as many personally written letters, all of that goes over to
Betty's office, it is all becoming a part of the public record, it will all be
reviewed by the Board.
MR. PENNY: Will this be available to the individual property owners, if
there are comments made about their property, so that they can address
them in the final hearing on the 14th of October?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It's public information, yes. If that's what you
are looking for, yes, we could do that. If there is any letter there that
relates to your property or any others, we could certainly see that you can
come in and pick it up.
MR. PENNY: 1 know that for eight years this is what we did. If
somebody wrote something about their property or had comments about
anything that was going on, people could respond to it in a public domain.
I mean if you were to hand me comments that people made that they found
something....
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: George, nothing has changed. I sat on the
Board with you. Nothing has changed.
MR. PENNY: Yeah, but we don't have that.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You will be getting them as soon as she can get
them separated into files for each separate land owner. We certainly... It's
public information, George, you know that...
MR. PENNY: I will have them for the final hearing?
SUPERVISOR: You should have it before the hearing.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Are you asking that the comments for anyone's
property be read into the record at that public hearing.
MR. PENNY: That is always the way it was. I don't know what has
changed. I mean lot has changed since I have been on the Board, it's
been 6 or 8 years or whatever it is.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: It's no different.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: At the final hearing, I am sure that we will
have them all separated out.
COUNCILWOMAN: Then we can read each one, in your instance, so that all
the comments about your property can be read into the record at time.
MR. PENNY: Right, comments that were made, concerning the public
hearing I will at least have a chance to have seen what comments were
either for or against me, so that I can address them.
COUNCILWOMAN: Your point is that you want them in the public record,
rather than something that you can just go down and look at.
MR. PENNY: I want all of the cards on the table. We always had all of
the cards on the table.
SUPERVISOR: They still are. Let me say this to you. They are already
a part of the public record. They all go to Betty. They are all included
in the public record which will be a part of the transcription. If what you
are asking that you would like to know ahead of time, if there any letters
that relate to you, personally, so that you can answer that before the last
hearing date?, we can work this out.
MR. PENNY: Absolutely.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We can work this out. We can give you these
copies. But, please give Betty the chance to get through it all. They are
still coming in every day.
MR. PENNY: I am just trying to find out when they are going to be
available?
SUPERVISOR: Betty, when do you think?
TOWN CLERK BETTY NEVILLE: My office copied them today and they are
going to sort them tomorrow. Everyone in my whole office is doing all that
they possibly can.
MR. PENNY: So, sometime between now and next Thursday, I can stop in
the Town Clerk's Office?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: 1 would say yes.
MR. PENNY: Thank you very much.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: O.K. anyone else like to talk to the Town Board
to share your thoughts with us?
ROBERT JENKINS, CUTCHOGUE: Good evening. I am referring to the
reason that was given for this study to keep the hamlet businesses viable
and in the hamlet. I wonder if the Town Board is able to, or has
addressed the fact that probably the single most important thing is to keep
the post office in that. I know that Love Lane in Mattituck, the post office
is the economic center of Mattituck. They are considering enlarging or
moving it and Mattituck is very fearful that they will lose the post office
from Love Lane. I know when the post office moved from Main Street in
Southold to the back of Traveler Street. The Main Street hamlet center as
we knew it, ceased to exist. So, I think that the Town Board might
contact the regional postmaster general, or who ever that might be and
assure that all of the post offices stay in the hamlet centers. I think this
will keep the hamlet center more viable than re-zoning those parcels of
business property on County Road 48. That's my first thing. The second
one. Instead of re-zoning those businesses on County Road 48. 1 feel that
the Town should do more to enforce the zoning codes that we already have
in place. God knows, it's tough enough to be in business today. As
business must pay Workmens Compensation Liability Insurance, Medicare,
FICA, State sales tax, etc., etc. we have a lot of businesses that are
operating out of residential zones, out of agricultural zones. Some with
agricultural exemptions running more than one business. Legitimate
businesses are being told that they should be re-zoned to a lesser use and
businesses that shouldn't be operating out of the zone that they are in, are
left alone to take cash off the books and operate any way they feel. I
think that should be addressed. Thirdly, after 3 days of being at the
hearings, I don't see the fervent out cry from the public to re-zone these
businesses. I see that there is some very civic minded persons that were
here speaking in favor of the plan, overall, of not allowing Route 48 to
become like Route 58. 1 think all of us in the Town of Southold 100%, agree
with that. But, 1 don't see the general public supporting the Cramer
study, as we know it. And last, but not least, I thank you for putting up
me for three days. 1 hope you put this in the box and put this down in
the infamous cellar, and let it stay there. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: You don't want to give us a copy of your
remarks?
MR. JENKINS: i don't have them written out.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: O.K. Thanks, Bob. Mr. Meineke?
HOWARD MEINEKE, NFEC: 1 just had some thoughts after being here on
and off for the duration of the hearings. The hearings of the past
3 days have been long and demanding and actually more interesting than I
had expected. Many factors were uncovered during the proceedings and
many views were brought forth. That part is worthwhile. But, we cannot
let the volume of the testimony of the property owners obscure the real
reason we came to the hearings. And that is that the North Fork is at
risk, Route 48 is the subject, because it seems to be one relatively straight
forward place to join the battle. A short list of what confronts us is the
fear of over development and helter skelter development on Route 48, the
threat of residential zoning that exists on all of the farmland, declining
water quality, every increasing non-stop traffic, and many more items. We
come away from these hearings with a few convictions. One, the status
quo, everything is fine as it is and there is no problem is not good
enough. We recognize the critical need to work on these problems on that
list and we should make a positive start on it. Second point, present
ownership of the various properties is one situation, but possible acts of
owners in the future present another more difficult dimension. Your zoning
today and the one on one contact with the owners is much different than
what it will be when a new owner moves in at some future time. The Route
48 Study is important because it is in opportunity to take an important
positive step toward the oft repeated goals from the 30 or so past studies.
After all of those aborted reports mildewing in the basement really do need
a start, an actual beginning and not another cop-out. We attach
extraordinary importance to success on this endeavor because we firmly
believe that the first step is the hardest, and then once we start, we will
surprise ourselves and find out that yes, we can do it. We like you did
not agree with all the Cramer recommendations, but that is not the prime
point. The real point is we have to begin. I think to begin we should
pass some part, the best part of the Route 48 legislation and start. This
is what we expect of the Town Board. This is a very important overall
agenda and this is just a starting point. I think we need the feeling that
we are really in the game and we are doing it. As a starter, we again
suggest the appointment of a panel, and this had been used elsewhere.
Possibly composed of expert in real estate, agriculture, planning, business,
the Town Board, and other folks, if necessary to sit and work with all
affected property owners at this point those along Route 48 subject to
zoning legislation at this time to develop procedures and solutions and to
consult with the Board as required. I think constructive thinking can do
wonders and through this all we do have to achieve fairness and everybody
out here is worried about fairness. I think we can sneak up on fairness if
we work on it and that's a method that I would suggest. I would think
post haste that we should get involved with that. We applaud the Board
for wading into the Route 48 question. It's had it's fits and storms, but 1
think it was a good start. It had to be done and if we now act on what we
are learning, we will some day look back and be proud that we started and
be proud that we did it.
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else like to address? Yes,
ma'am..
CONSTANCE CASE: My name is Constance Case. Yes, 1 am a member of
the North Fork Environmental Council, but I am also a person who lives in
Southold like Bob was talking about and very much in favor of the Cramer
report and I urge you to adopt the recommendations. It has been very
hard to sit here these three days and listen to the hardships that are
expressed by people who have very valid issues with it. And yet, I am
urging you, I guess to look to the good of Southold in general and to the
future of Southold for us for our children and for generations to come,
because what we have now cannot be replaced. It is very hard to put that
against the stories that I have heard or problems that I heard that have
been addressed by individual people. I guess it is a case, to me, of the
good of the whole area in general, versus individual issues and yet, those
have to be addressed. So, I do ask you to pass the recommendations of
the report. But I also, maybe a possibility, is the one that Howard just
recommended. That maybe there is a some kind of arbitration panel to
address after the report has been passed, to address the needs of
individual people and to look at some of the issues and some of the
problems that need to be addressed. But, please continue to focus on the
good of the township, in general. That's the courage that is needed here
and that's a hard thing. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you very much. Anyone else like to
address the Town Board?
HENRY SMITH: My name is Henry Smith. I don't have a personal interest
in any of these properties we are talking about here tonight. But, these
people are my neighbors. They are business people. They are hard
working people. And to take away their property rights the way you are
doing, I think is totally wrong. I think you are going about this whole
thing the wrong way. I mean there are a lot more problems in this town
than these little Mom E Pop operations, that we have to take away their
property rights. What would happen is we had some kind of blight in the
ground that the ground was no longer any good for grapes? We couldn't
grow grapes here anymore. Now, the land is useless. We have one grape
farmer that has almost 500 acres. There is no farmland preservation rights
sold on his property. Now, he can develop it and the other wineries can
do the same thing. Now, all of a sudden, what are we going to call the
Town, "Wineville". We could have hundreds of hundreds of thousands of
homes on these properties. To take away these rights of these people. I
don't know, it boggles my mind that this is what you are doing. 1 am just
opposed to it and these people are Southold. I see everybody wants
Southold to be beautiful and everything. This is Southold, they want it
beautiful too. I mean they don't want to see it ruined. They are just
trying to make a living. They are hard working business people. I will
tell you one thing, it is a lot different when you sign the front of the
check then the back of the check all the time. They know what it is to be
in business and have to pay bills and try to make a profit. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Henry. I am going to take someone
who has not yet had the opportunity to speak. Is there anyone else who
would like to speak that has not had the opportunity as yet? Your letter I
received
yesterday has been sent to the Town Clerk's Office to be a part of the
record.
KATHLEEN GRASECK: I am Kathleen Graseck. 1 just want to say that
actually you pretty much have two segments of the Town here. I don't
think that you are hearing from all of the voters of the Town, or all of the
people who live in the Town of Southold. I think they should be given the
opportunity to voice their opinion on this issue. To be very truthful with
you, we are not the problem as far as vistas go. We are a very small
portion of the acreage. I know in the papers they put it down as square
footage. But, you know we are really a very small part of the Town. To
have this study pinpoint us, you know, the property owners, and try to
gauge them is just so completely unfair. So, I really feel that we need
more public input on this whole thing. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you. Anyone else like to address the
Town Board that has not spoken yet? Mr. Huntington.
RAY HUNTINGTON, CUTCHOGUE: I just like to stand up to thank the
Town Board for raising this public discussion. I don't really believe that
we are trying to indict anybody or to take rights away from anybody. We
are trying as a community to look within ourselves and find out what is the
right thing to do, for the future, and for the near future as well. So, my
thanks to all for bringing forth this discussion, listening to all of these
hours and continuing with your efforts until the 14th, I guess it is. It's
not an easy job, it's probably one of the toughest ones we have had. But,
the idea that we are at doing it is very good for Southold.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else? Before those get a second chance?
ANN MILOSKI: I would just like to address some of the things that the
North Fork Environmental Council has said. I have always supported the
NFEC and I have also gone out and supported many of the things that they
have done and I am a member of it. But, I think when you ask for
arbitration after you ask to have something passed, is wrong. Arbitration
should have been before. The people should have been asked to participate
in this before. You don't ask for arbitration after you ask for zoning. If
this it the way the NFEC is going to do things, I am the first one that is
going to cancel my membership. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board?
JOANN SANTORA: 1 hadn't planned to do this again. But, I'm a little
confused on one thing. Things like the Cox Lane industrial park? Does
the environmentalists think that is nice? I don't understand it. How come
that was allowed? 1 mean, 1 think that is an eyesore in our quaint little
rural Town. I also think that the two strip malls right down the road from
me, I think they are unsightly. How come that was allowed? The
environmentalists didn't mind that, they thought it looked good. 1 don't
understand what is happening now. Maybe it could be explained better to
me, but these are allowed. But business that have been in the same little
houses for many years are being changed?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Joann, please. I don't want anyone to go home
with a burning feeling or an unanswered opportunity to say what is in their
heart. So, we thank you for standing up and sharing your thoughts with
us. Is there anyone else who would like to address the Town Board?
GEORGE PENNY: This is regarding Penny Lumber in Mattituck. As I
understand, now, we are up to three goals. One is the visual quality of
people that drive through Southold Town and I am sure that includes the
1,500 to 2000 people that go both ways to the ferries in Orient and back,
that don't affect our life in any way except create havoc and hardship and
the need for sometime in the very near future, a traffic light at every
crossroad. But, I understand that is important that we improve things for
these people also. But, visual quality is what we are addressing here.
Traffic, and preserving the hamlets. Well, Penny Lumber can't be seen
from Route 48. My small little carpet store can, and we generate maybe 10
cars in and out of there every day. As far as preserving the hamlets go,
Penny Lumber cannot operate in a hamlet atmosphere. We are a light
industrial business that cannot move into a hamlet. So, there is no
competition between me and anybody from the hamlet centers regarding a
lumberyard. So, let's address the carpet center. I am probably the one
carpet center anywhere that does not have a warehouse directly behind it.
And I mean directly because to run a carpet center requires warehouse
space. I don't believe that if Gerry Gralton from Southold Floor Covering,
or myself, or someone like Southold Quarry who requires warehouse space
were forced that there is anywhere that could occupy us. The warehouse
space that we require is much too much. I mean when you rent a store in
Town, you get 1,000-1,500 square feet where you can put a couple of
offices in and a restroom, that's about all you are going to get in a hamlet
center. So, the nature of the business is what designates where we are
and why we are there. To expect that we are going to move out of these,
or somebody else Is going to take out place and we are going to complete
with somebody In the hamlet center, is impossible. Because they can't get
that kind of space, there Is not that kind of room in the hamlets for the
nature of our business. We have trucks which we have to load and
unload. The carpet business particularly have 15 ft. rolls which
have to be unloaded with a forklift. Those rolls have to be stored. There
is padding that has to be stored that has to be manhandled. Luckily for
me, I don't have the warehouse directly behind Penny Center only because
of the Lumberyard which is behind it. Some 200 or 300 feet behind it, out
of sight, where the trucks come in off of Sound Avenue, not off of County
Route 48 and are unloaded by the men with my heavy equipment. If I was
to take and sell Penny Flooring Center to someone else, their immediate
needs would be to put up a warehouse directly behind that part of the
property. But it's not going that way. There is no need for it to go that
way. I mean, if it's not broke, let's not try to fix it.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Anyone else like to address the Town Board? If
not, we will.. Yes, O.K., come on Bob.
ROBERT JENKINS, CUTCHOGUE: Just a few quick remarks. Regarding
the overall corridor of Route 48. 1 believe that every citizen of the
organizations, every business person should realize that 92 or 93% of the
Route 48 Corridor is agriculture or agriculture conservation or low density
housing. It is not business, light business, industrial, or residential
office. A very small part, minuscule part of the County Route 48 Corridor
are those 4 different zones. Therefore, everyone should be very very
happy to know that over 90% of the Town of the Route 48 Corridor has the
potential of being preserved through the program the Town, County, and
the State has in place and it is a voluntary one. So, I think that Town
Board should keep in mind that comments made earlier that other people
made earlier about the hamlet business being viable to good business
practices, and the post offices I mentioned earlier. Thank you.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: The total acreage studied under the plan is 272
acres.
272.74 to be exact.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Mr. Huntington?
MR. HUNTINGTON: 25% of the parcels along the North Road proper in the
section that we are talking about are in the study and up for
recommendation. 75% are not, so if we are talking about businesses might
be established, I think that's an interesting fact.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: You know, while we are all talking about
numbers, I think I have to do something about numbers, Bob. Of those
272, 13 are being suggested to go to AC which is our most benign and
can't do anything but farm on it.
ROBERT JENKINS: Very quickly, of all the parcels that was just
mentioned, we are talking parcels, we are not talking acreage. I have four
parcels, one is a half acre, one, is an acre, and the third is two and a half
acres. So, we can't mention parcels, we have to go overall corridor
acreage, the vista, the overall effect. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you, Bob. Would anyone else like to
address the Town Board?
TYLER CORNELL: Representing the Cornelis and Ruth Enterprises, and
actually for this one, kind. of everybody. I would like to say that 1
appreciate the time that the Board has given. Three days straight. I
have been here as much as possible and you guys really have been
attentive and listened to everything that most everybody said. It seems
like most of us are calming down a lot. At least getting it off our chests
and being able to talk to you directly. My one concern, or in essence, a
question for you, out of ignorance to politics and the way the Town works,
is having grown up with most of the people that are here, or gone through
here. I have seen them on the good sides, I have seen them when they
are really upset. How do you budget the money for the lawsuits that may
come out of this?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: How do we budget it? We put money every year
in the budget, actually the Town Attorney puts money in his budget, for
legal expenses, it would probably be there.
MR. CORNELL: Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: I would also like to thank everyone that has
attended these hearings. They have been conducted in a very mature and
giving fashion. No one really became very angry, so it made our job a
little easier to be able to have your input, so that as we go through the
rest of the process, we know your feelings from all directions. So, on
behalf of the Board, I also thank you.Anyone else like to address the
Board, if not we will recess, we will.... Yes, Sir....
EDWARD KOSTER: My name is Ed Koster. I have a machine shop. I have
been a machinist all my life, and now you want to make a farmer out of
me. I'm still puzzled, Bill, I'm still puzzled. Can County Route 48 can be
saved without compromising the value of the established businesses. I
think we should all compromise some how. I think everybody would be
happy. We all want to save Southold and Route 48. 1 think it's pretty nice
now. It's not perfect, it's not 100%. If it were it would be like driving
through Kansas, everybody would go to sleep. I mean have a little blemish
here and a little blemish there. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Thank you very much. It's a good way to end
this. Would anyone else like to speak to the Town Board? If, not, we will
recess. As you know, the hearing continues until the 14th, if you have
anything written. George, Betty will try to get through those files
tomorrow, so they will be available to you. All of this information is public
information. Thank you very much for joining us. Henry would you like
to speak?
HENRY SMITH: I just have one question?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: We are recessed, but all right go ahead.
HENRY SMITH: Why were some of the business picked out and some of
them were not. Like the strip mall, why weren't they included in this
also? Did they miss the dart, when it was thrown or what?
SUPERVISOR COCHRAN: Probably Henry. I don't know, Henry.
COUNCILMAN ROMANELLI: On the final hearing, Cramer will be here and
you can ask him that question directly.
SUPERVISOR: No, we will be meeting with Mr. Cramer as soon as possible,
as a Board, to discuss the findings and everything else, so that date will
be set and the public cannot take part, but you are certainly invited to
come listen to the Town Board do their work.
This hearing was recessed at 8:45 P.M., to be continued at 9:00 A.M. on
October 14, 1999.
0
Elizabeth Nevill
Southold Town Clerk