HomeMy WebLinkAboutLL-1993 #20LOCAL LAW NO. 20 ', 1993
A Local Law in Relation to Garbage. Rubbish and Refuse
BE IT ENACTED, by the Town Board of the Town of Southold as foUows:
Chapter L~8 (Garbage, Rubbish and Refuse) is hereby amended to read as
follows:
1. Section L~8-1 (Definitions) is hereby,amended to read as follows:
REFUSE - A-r~f httm~n7 nmb-nm+ or veg~ta~rle t'eft~se7 offa~;-s~riH;-
~nk-tr~h~ ru~,- ~or ~ ~+ah co~
d+~a~ed-~~ or ~rts thereoF~ d+~a~ed-v~c~ or
parts thereof an~ am- u~ ~- ve~c~ ~r~ s~
con~t~ Foe ~than-~h~ ~38) da~.- Refuse shall
have the same meaning as "nonrecyclable waste." "Refuse" shall
not include cans. glass, plastics or newspaper, as further
defined herein.
o
48-1 (Definitions) is hereby amended by adding thereto the
following new definitions:
ILLEGAL DUMPING - The deposit by any person of garbage,
rubbish, refuse or waste in any public place within the Town
of Southold, including its inland waters, other than in con-
tainers desi~]nated for that purpose.
NONRECYCLABLE WASTE - The end product of solid waste
remaining after the extraction of recyclable materials,
hazardous waste, construction and demolition, debris and land-
clearing debris. "Nonrecyclable waste" results primarily from
the handling, preparation and storable of food and includes but
is not limited to putrescible solid waste such as animal and
vegetable waste.
TOWN GARBAGE BAG - A distinctively labeled plastic bag of such
size and design as shall be determined by the Town Board, to bp
used for the disposal of nonrecyclable waste.
48-2 (Dumping proh bred generally) is hereby amended by
adding a new subsection (C) to read as follows:
Nonrecyclable waste and Town garbage bags
1. Nonrecyclable waste shall be deposited only at
designated areas within the Town disposal area.
Town garbage basis shall be available at designated
areas in the Town.
3. The size and design of the Town garbage bag shall bp
determined by resolution of the Town Board.
The fee for each size of the Town garbage bag shall
be determined by resolution of the Town Board .
5. No person shall:
(a) Duplicate or imitate a Town garbage ba~l.
(b) Cive, sell or issue in any manner a duplicated or
imitated Town garbage bag.
~8-3.A.(1) (Residential self-haulers and commercial self-haulers)
is hereby amended by adding a new subsection (f) to read as follows:
(f) Nonrecyclable waste.
(2)
Residential self-haulers - nonrec¥clable waste generated
by residential self-haulers shall be disposed of only in
a Town garbage bag as defined herein and deposited only
at designated areas within the Town disposal area.
Commercial self-haulers - nonrecyclable waste c~lenerated
by commercial self-haulers may be either:
Disposed of in a Town garbage bag and deposited at
designated areas within the Town disposal area; or
(b) disposed of at the designated areas within the Town
disposal area upon paying the appropriate charge
as set by Town Board resolution for the weight of
nonrecyclable waste deposited.
~8-3. A.(2) (Pri~ate residential refuse haulers/carters) is ·hereby
amended by adding a new subsection (e) to read as follows:
(e)
Nonrecyclable waste.
(1) The owners or occupants of all residences within the
Town who utilize collection services provided by persons
licensed to collect refuse pursuant to the provisions of
this chapter shall place nonrecyclable waste in Town
garbage bags for collection on such day or days as tho
licensee serving such residents shall designate.
It shall be unlawful for any person to place out for
collection any nonrecyclable waste which is not in a
Town garbage bag. It shall be unlawful for any person
to collect nonrecyclable waste from a residence which
is not in a Town garbage,bag.
(3) Nonrecyclable waste in Town garbage bags collected by
private residential refuse haulers/carters and trans-
ported to the landfill/collection center shall bo
deposited only in areas designated by appropriat~
landfill personnel.
II. This Local Law shall take effect upon its filing with the Secretary of
State.
NYS DEPARTHENT OF STATE
BUREAU OF STATE RECORDS
162 ~ashington Avenue
Albany, NY 1223~-0001
DATE: 10/6/93
Local Law Acknowledgment
I-- JUDITH T. TERRY
TOWN HALL
53095 MAIN ROAD
PO BOX 1179
SOUTHOLD NY 11971
DOS-236 (Rev, 6790)
I HUNIC[PALITY I
Town of $outhold
LOCAL LAW(S) NO. ~ YEAR FILING DATE
20 & 21I 1993 10/6/93
The above-referenced material was received
and filed by this office as indicated.
Additional local law filing forms will be
forwarded upon request.
Local Law Filing
NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF STATE
162 WASHINGTON AVENUE. ALBANY, NY 12231
(Use this form to file a local law with the .Secretary of State.)
Text of taw should be given as amended. Do not include matter being eliminatedand do not use
italics or underlining to indicate new matter.
.I~XI$ of .......................... _S_ 9_ _u_~h .o_[ .d. ..................................................
Town
Local Law No .......... _2__0_ ....................... of the year 19--9-3---
A local law .._tn .b..b..i n ...................................
.................................................... :. .........................................................
Be it enacted by the .................-t-°-~--DP--~--C?- .................................................... of the
~{'J< of ........................ .S._o_.u..t.h..o_!.d. .................................................... as follows:
Town
Chapter 48 (Garbage. Rubbish and Refuse) is hereby amended to read as
follows:
1. Section 48~1 (Definitions) is hereby amended to read as follows:
REFUSE - Refuse shall have the s~me meaning as "nonrecyclable
waste." "Refuse" shall not include cans. glass, plastics or
newspaper, as further defined herein.
48-1 (Definitions) is hereby amended by adding thereto the
following new definitions:
ILLEGAL DUMPING - The deposit by any person of garbage.
rubbish, refuse or waste in any public place within the Town
of Southold. including its inland waters, other than in con-
tainers designated for that purpose.
NONRECYCLABLE WASTE : The end product of solid waste
remaining after the extraction of recyclable materials;
hazardous waste, construction and demolition debris and land-
clearing debris. "Nonrecyclable waste" results primarily from
the handling, preparation and storage of food and includes but
is not limited-to putrescible solid waste such as animal and
vegetable waste.
(If additional space is needed, attach pages the sam~ size as this sheet, and number each.)
DOS-239 (Rev. 7/91)
TOWN GARBAGE BAG - A distinctively labeled plastic bag of such
size and design as shall be determined by the Town Board, to be
used for the disposal of nonrecyclable waste.
L[8-2 (Dumping prohibited generally) is hereby amended by
adding a new subsection (C) to read as follows:
C. Nonrecyclable waste and Town garbage bags
Nonrecyclable waste shall be deposited only at
designated areas within the Town disposal area.
Town garbage bags shall be available at designated
areas in the Town.
The size and design of the Town garbage bag shall be
determined by resolution of the Town Board.
The fee for each size of the Town garbage bag shall
be determined by resolution of the Town Board.
5. No person shall:
(a) Duplicate or imitate a Towr~ garbage bag.
(b) Give. sell or issue in any manner a duplicated or
imitated Town garbage bag.
48-3.A. C1) (Residential self-haulers and commercial self-haulers)
is hereby amended by adding a new subsection (f) to read as follows:
(f) Nonrecyclable waste.
Residential self-haulers - nonrecyclable waste generated
by residential self-haulers shall be disposed of only in
a Town garbage bag as defined herein and deposited only
at designated areas within the Town disposal area.
(2) Commercial self-haulers - nonrecyclable waste generated
by commercial self-haulers may be either:
(a) Disposed of ~n a Town garbage bag and deposited at
designated areas within the Town disposal area; or
(b)
disposed of at the designated areas within the Town
disposal area upon paying the appropriate charge
as set by Town Board resolution for the weight of
nonrecyclable waste deposited.
II.
5. 48-3.A. (2) (Private residential refuse haulers/carters) is hereby
amended by adding a new subsection (e) to read as follows:
(e) Nonrecyclable waste.
(1)
The owners or occupants of all residences within the
Town who utilize collection services provided by persons
licensed to collect refuse pursuant to the provisions of
this chapter shall place nonrecyclable waste in Town
garbage bags for collection on such day or days as the
licensee serving such residents shall designate,
(2)
It shall be unlawful for any person to place out for
collection any nonrecyclable waste which is not in a
Town garbage bag. It shall be unlawful for any person
to collect nonrecyclable waste from'a residence which
is not in a Town garbage bag.
(3)
Nonrecyclable waste in Town garbage bags collected by
private residential refuse haulers/carters and trans-
ported to the landfill/collection center shall be
deposited only in areas designated by appropriate
landfill personnel.
This Local Law shall take effect upon its filing with the Secretary of
State..
(Complete the certification in the paragraph that applies to the filing of this local law and
strike out that which is not applicable.)
1. (Final adoption by local legislative body only.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No ............._2.0. .................... of 19---9-3--
of the (~/l~y-)~i~)(T°wn)0W~,Igg~) of _.5_o_.u._t._h_o_J_d_ ........... L__ ................................... was duly passed by the
_T_o_w_ct _B_OlC_'q/_ ............................ on __S__e.p_t...__j..0_,__ 19 _9._3_, in accordance with the applicable provisions of law.
, (Name of£egixlative Body)
2. (Passage by local legislative body with approval, no disapproval or repassage after disapproval
by the Elective Chief Executive Officer*.)
[ hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No .................................... of 19 ......
of the (County)(City)(Town)(Village) of .................................................................. was duly passed by the
............................................... on .................. 19 ---, and was (approved)(not approved)(repassed after
~Name of Legislative Body)
disapproval) by the .................................................. and was deemed duly adopted on .................. 19 ....,
~Electlve Chlef Executive Officer*)
in accordance with the applicable provisions of law.
~ 3.- (Final adoption by referendum.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local'law No ............................... ::~-- of 19 ......
of the (County)(City)Crown)(Village) of ................................................................. was duly passed by the
................................................... on .................. 19 .... , and was (approved)(not approved)(repassed after
(Name of Legislative Body)
disapproval) by the ................................................. on- .................. 19 ..... Such local law was submitted
(Elective Chief Executive Officer*)
to the people byreason of a (mandatory)(permissive) referendum, and received the affirmative vote ora majority of
the qualified electors voting thereon at the (general)(special)(annual) election held on ..................19---- , in
accordance with the applicable provisions of law.
(Subject to permissive referendum and final adoption because no valid petition was ~ed requesting
referendum.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No .................................... of 19 ......
of the (County)(City)Crown)(Village) of ................................................................. was duly passed by the
................................................... on .................. 19 .... , and was (approved)(not approved)(repassed after
(Name of LegtsJative Body)
disapproval) by the .................................................. on .................. 19 .... Such local law was subject to
(Elective Chief Executive Officer*)
permissive referendum and no valid petition requesting such referendum was filed as Of .................. 19---- , in
accordance with the applicable provisions of law.
* Elective Chief'Executive Officer means or includes the chief executive officer of a county elected on a county-
wide basis or, if there be none, the chairperson of the county legislative body, the mayor of a city or village, or
the supervisor of a town where such officer is vested with the power to approve or veto local laws or ordinances.
(2)
5. (City local law concerning Charter revision proposed by petition.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No .................................... of 19 ......
of the City of ............................................. having been submitted to referendum pursuant to the provisions of
section (36)(37) of the Municipal Home Rule Law, and having received the affirmative vote of a majority of the
qualified electors of such city voting thereon at the (special)(general) election held on .................. .19 ....,
became operative.
6. (County local law concerning adoption of Charter.)
I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No .................................... of 19 ......
of the County of .................................................... State of New York, having been submitted to the electors
at the General Election of November ...................... 19 .... , pursuant to subdivisions 5 and 7 of section 33 of the
Municipal Home Rule Law, and having received the affirmative vote of a majority of the qualified electom of the cit-
ies of said county as a unit and a majority of the qualified electors of'the towns of said county considered as a unit
voting at said general election, became operative.
(If any other authorized form of final adoption has been followed, please provide an appropriate certification.)
I farther certify .that I have compared the preceding local law with the original on file in this office and that the same
is a correct transcript therefrom and of the whole of such original local law, and was finally adopted in the manner in-
dicated in paragraph ..... _1_ ..... , above.
Clerk ~e ~ounty legislative body, City~ Town or Villa 1~'~
or officer designated by local legislative body u,-
JUDITH T. TERRY, TOWN CLERK
(Seal)
Date: September 13, 1993
(Certification to be executed by County Attorney, Corporation Counsel, Town Attorney, Village Attorney or
other authorized attorney of locality.)
STATE QF NEW YORK
cotr~rr~ o~ SUFFOLK
I, the undersigned, hereby certify that the foregoing local law contains the correct text and that all proper proceedings
have b.een had or taken for the enactment of the Ioc 17 hereto.
MATTHEW G. KIERNAN, ASSISTANT TOWN ATTORNEY
Title
K:g~( of
Town
x IIX X
Date:
Southold
September 13,. 1993
(3)
PUBLIC HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD
AUGUST 24, 1993
8:02 P.M.
IN THE MATTER OF A PROPOSED "LOCAL LAW IN RELATION TO GARBAGE,
RUBBISH AND REFUSE".
Present: Supervisor Scott L. Harris
Justice Raymond W. Edwards
Councilman George L. Penny IV
Councilman Thomas H. Wickham
Councilwoman Alice J. Hussie
Town Clerk Judith T. Terry
Assistant Town Attorney Matthew G. Kiernan
Absent: Councilman Joseph J. Lizewski
Town Attorney Harvey A. Arnoff
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: The second public hearing of the evening, a "Local Law
in Relation to Garbage, Rubbish and Refuse" will be read by Councilman Wickham.
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: "Public Notice is hereby given that there has been pre-
sented to the Town Board of the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York,
on the 10th day fo August, 1993, a Local Law entitled, "A Local Law in Relation
to Garbage, Rubbish and Refuse". Notice is further given that the Town Board
of the Town of Southold will hold a public hearing on tile aforesaid Local Law at
the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, New York, on the 24th day of August,
1993, at 8:02 P.M., at which time all interested persons will be heard. This pro-
posed "Local Law in Relation to Garbage, Rubbish and Refuse" reads as follows:
BE IT ENACTED by the Town Board of the Town of Southold as follows:
I. Chapter 48 (Garbage, Rubbish and Refuse) is hereby amended to read
as follows:
1. Section 4801 (Definitions) is hereby amended to read as follows:
REFUSE - Any J~L~msfl, anJmaJ ~r ~3et~bJe ~e~use, ~1, ~H~,
~flk-t~ash~ r~, ~as~ or w~ ~a~e~ ~,
d~a~e~ ~ o~ ~ ~f, ~ veh~ ~ ~
~han ~h+~ ~) days. Refuse shall have the same meanin~ as
"Nonrecyclable waste." "Refuse shall not include cans, glass,
plastics or newspaper, as further defined herein.
Pg 2 - I-L Garbage, f ~bish & Refuse
~18-1 (Definitions) is hereby amended by adding thereto the
following new definitions:
ILLEGAL DUMPING - The deposit by any person of garbage,
rubbish, refuse or waste in any public place within the Town
of $outhold, including its inland waters, other than in container~
designated for that purpose.
NONRECYCLABLE WASTE - The end product of solid wast~
remaining after the extraction of rec¥clable materials, hazardou;
waste, construction and demolition debris and landclearincj debris.
"Nonrec¥clable waste" results primarily from the handling,
preparation and storage of food and includes but is not limited
to putrescible solid waste such as animal and vegetable waste.
;]'OWN GARBAGE BAG - A distinctively labeled plastic bag of such
size and design as shall be determined by the Town Board, to
be used for the disposal of nonrecyclabe waste.
3, 48-2 (Dumping prohibited generally) is hereby amended by adding
a new subsection (C) to read as follows:
C. Nonrecyclable waste and Town garbage bags,
1. Nonrecyclabl~ waste shall be deposited only at designated
areas within the Town disposal area.
2__~. Town garbage bags shall be available at desi~lnated area~.
in' the Town.
3. The size and desitin of the Town garbage bag shall be
determined by resolution of the Town Board.
4__~. The fee for each size of the Town garbage ba~l shall
be determined by resolution of the Town Board.
5. No person shall:
(a) ,Duplicate or imitate a Town garbage bag.
(b) Give, sell or issue in any manner a duplicated or
imitated Town garbage bag.
4. 48-3.A.(1) (Residential self-haulers and commercial self-haulers)
is hereby amended by adding a new subsection (f) to read as
follows:
(f) nonrec¥clable waste.
(1) Residential self-haulers - nonrecyclabe waste generated
by residential self-haulers shall be disposed of only
in a Town garbage bag as defined herein and deposited
only at designated areas with the Town disposal area.
(__~2) Commercial self-haulers - nonrecyclabe waste generated
by commercial self-haulers may be either:
(a) Diposed of in a Town garbage bag and deposited
at desio~nated areas with the Town disposal area;
or
(b) disposed of at the designated areas with the
Town disposal area upon paying the appropriatP
charge as set by Town Board resolution for thP
weight of nonrecyclable waste deposited.
5. 48-3.A.(2} [Private residential refuse haulers/carters) is hereby
amended by adding a new subsection (e) to read as follows:
Pg 3 - LL Garbage, ~ bish & Refuse
(e) I~onrecyclable waste.
(1) The owners or occupants of all residences within th~
Town who utilize collection services provided by
persons licensed to collect refuse pursuant to the
provisions of this chapter shall place nonrecyclable
waste in Town garbage ba~Is for collection on such day
or days as the licensee servin~l sucl~ residents shall
designate.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to place out for
collection any nonrecyclable waste which is not in a
Town garbage ba~. It shall be unlawful for any person
to collect nonrecyclable waste from a residence which
is not in a Town garbage ba~.
(3) Nonrecyclable waste in Town garbage ba~s collection
by private residential refuse haulers/carters and
transported to the landfill/collection center shall be
deposited only in areas designated by appropriate
landfill personnel.
II. This Local Law shall take effect upon its filing with the Secretary of State.
* Overstrike represents deletion(s)
** Underscore represents addition(s)
Copies of this Local Law are available in the Office of the Town Clerk to any
interested persons during business hours. Dated: August 10, 1993. Judith T.
Terry, Southold Town Clerk." I have in front of us here a notification that was
duly posted outside on the I~ulletin Board, and also, it was duly published as a
public notice in The Long Island Traveler-Watchman, a public newspape~ printed
in $outhold on the 19th of August, 1993. (tape change.)
SI~PERVISOR HARRIS: Is there anyone on the right side, that would like to
address this Local Law? Would you come forward, please, and state your name?
CHARLES DIGNEY: Charles Digney. My feeling is that while this system might
work in Shelter Island, I do not believe that it would work in Southold, and I
think that we could quickly become Rat City U.~A. It would be too much of a
temptation to be dumping garbage everywhere, because we're not a homogeneous
group of people as is, I think, Shelter Island. Shelter Island is more so. It is
my feeling that if there would be some alternative system, that would make it a
lot easier to present the garbage to the dump, because people are going to have
on occasion, they're not going to have a bag, and they're going to get rid of
their garbage. Thank you.
S~JPERVISOR HARRIS: Anybody else to my right? Okay, in the middle, all the
way I~ack. Yes, sir?
BOB GAMMON: My name is Bob Gammon. I'd like to go on record of saying, that
I'm opposed to this particular garbage bag proposition. A lot of the people, that
I've spoken with are also opposed to it. Four basis's that were opposed to it are
as follows: Number one, we feel that whole new bureacracy is going to have to
be in place in order to effectuate this efficiently. By that I mean we're going
to have to have a department of procurment to get the garbage bags. Number
two, we're going to have a department of storage. How big a building are we going
to need for all these garbage bags? Numbers three, we're going to have to have
a department of distribution, that will distribute all these garbage bags, and number
four, we're going to have to have a department of treasury in order to collect all
Pg 4 - LL Garbage, R '~ish & Refuse
the money, that's going to be required for these garbage bags. Being a entrepre-
neur for many years, I believe in the private enterprise system. I do not believe
in the Town taking on any more incumbrances then they already have. A good
case in point is, I resided out here for approximately 12 years in the house in
Laurel, and during those 12 years I've seen many changes. As it is now I feel
as if I'm a resident of Town Hall. First I have to come down to get my
permit. Then if I want to drink a cup of coffee at the beach with my wife, I have
to go down, and get a permit to sit at the beach. Then I have to get a dump permit.
Now, you're telling me I've got to get garbage bags. I frankly do not think that
this thing is going to be workable. I think the way it ought to be handled is the
garbage bags ought to be very clearly defined as to what they should be, the
dimension, the size, etc. etc. I mean I'm not impractical about this thing. I
realize that we have problem. When we have a problem of the magnitude that we
do, we have to face it. We can't hide from it, and stick our heads in the sand
anymore~ and that is we have the proposition of getting rid of garbage. There's
no question about that. I don't think anybody in this audience questions the
believity of that statement. But, I think we're all intelligent enought to get our
own garbage bags, and if you tell us what garbage bags to get, God knows you
have enough people down there at the dump supervising getting rid of their refuse.
There's no reason why they can't insure the fact, providing, or assuming you're
concerned about the recyclables. I know a lot of people cheat. I know a lot of
people stick the recyclables in, and say, the heck with it. They don't put it in
the proper distribution area, or disposal area I should say. But why not utilize
all of this talent, that you have down there to do some checking to make sure the
appropriate material is in the garbage bags. That's what they're down there for.
Usually they're down there sweeping up stuff that people don't put in the bins.
Well, give them another job to do it. The reason, primarily, I'm opposed to it,
as I said before to reiterate it, is the cost. For anybody to assume that this thing
is going to be cheap is ludicrous. There's no way that anything that has to do
with bureacracy is cheap. It gets more, and more, and more expensive all the
time, as everyone in this room can attest to. I got my shellfish permit. It was
one cost. When I got my dump permit, it was one cost, etc., etc., etc. Now,
it's a thing of all together different magnitude. For those reasons I'm opposed
to il, and so are the people I've spoken to. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Bob, could you come back to the microphone for a second?
We're going to break tradition a little bit tonight. Normally public hearings are
for us to hear the public, so we can make a decision based on what we heard,
and what we feel is best for the community. However, tonight, and I'm expecting
a lot of individuals in this room, those who will speak, to give the cordial respect
to the individual Councilpeople, who will respond to some of the questions, that
you have. Because of the economic factors, that are involved with solid waste
I feel that it's only appropriate, that some of the questions that you brought up
be answered publically, so that everyone can have an opportunity to the amount
of work that has gone into research to find an alternative solution to burying
solid waste, such as we know has been outlawed, and obviously today, as you know
there was a decision handed down, which has dealt another blow to the three
towns, in reference to the courts. However, at this time I'd like to recognize
Councilwoman Hussie, who chairs the Solid Waste Task Force, who has been
working on this problem for a number of years. Councilwoman Hussie?
P~t 5 - LL Garbage, F' ,bish & Refuse
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Thank you, Scott. I'd like to reply first to Mr. Digney,
who is concerned about the dumping. We are concerned about that, too. However,
the Highway Department, and the Police Department have both been alerted, and
they claim that they can keep an eye on this. We have to go on good faith, right?
The other thing is, I am almost positive, that everybody that lives in Southold
has enough pride to see to it that they don't dump illegally. On the other hand,
when we raised the dump sticker fee from $5.00 to $25.00, there was a hue and
cry, that that too was going to cause dumping all over town. It did not. When
we raised the amount per pound from $.02 to $.03, there was concern that that
would instigate dumping all over town. It has not.As faras,~,4rGammon, storage,
we've looked into that, and considering the number and the size of bags, we've
even measured the boxes, and done all of that work, they will be stored in an
now unused tractor trailer trailer up at the dump, up at the landfill. Distribution
will be at Town Hall, and also, through any retail outlet interested in handling
them for the convenience of customers. So, they will be available. We are not
c~oing to set another bureacracy in place, and as for the treasury, it's all going
to be handled..our treasurer is right there. Judy Terry is going to be handling
the whole thing, the purchase of the bags, and the distribution of the bags,
and after that it's out of the Town's hands as far as money is concerned.
BOB GAMMON: Is there going to be a resolution to pass that in stone, Alice?
COUNCILMAN HUSSlE: Would you like that?
BOB GAMMON: Yes, I would.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Okay.
BOB GAMMON: And the reason I would is because I've seen so many of these
things that start quite innocently, and I'm sure you're thoughts are well conceived.
I mean I'm not questioning the integrity of Board, but I know politics. I've been
involved with it a long time. You're not going to sit in that chair, or any of you
aren't, for the rest of your life. I'm sure you don't want to in this particular
job. Anyway, things change. Administrations change, and if something like this
is carried, and implemented, I want assurances to the people of the Town of
Southold, that we're not going to be charged like we were initially when we started,
five dollars, ten dollars, for a dump fee, and now all of a sudden it's up to $25.00,
and what necessitated this, because of the overhead. It keeps going up. This is
like the stump grinder you were talking about earlier. Sure, you're talking about
saving $250,000.00, but the other thing to regress, and what I would like to know
in respect to that, does that include the figure, including the benefits, retirement,
and the salaries of the personnel, that's required to run that stump grinder? Is
that figured in that figure?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: No. Of course not. That is for the piece of equipment.
¥~/e have the personnel there right now, who are sitting around waiting while the
other one is being repaired.
BOB GAMMON: In other words, what you're telling me is, this personnel is sitting
there, and they are already in place?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: They are, and they will be operating a stump grinder
that works, rather than one that doesn't work.
Pg 6 - LL Garbage, F bish & Refuse
13013 GAMMON: Now, if we didn't have the stump grinder, than you wouldn't need
the personnel?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: That's true, but what we do with all the stumps, and
all the brush?
13013 GAMMON: Well, what I'm trying to get at, Alice, is to give people realistic
figure as to what the true cost is. You've got to also figure in the cost of the
labor on this thing. In other words, to say that there is a $250,000 differential
is not entirely accurate, is it, when you figure in the person? I don't know any-
thing about it.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Mr. Gammon, the tub grinder, and the stump buster
are really not part of the mathematical equation that we're dealing with right now,
which is the garba~je by the bag. That's an entirely different issue.
BOB GAMMON: The reason that that question arose, Alice, is exactly pursuant
to what we are discussing, the c~arbage bag issue. In other words, you start out
with one premise, and then all of a sudden it changes, and therefore the cost
figures change, and that's what I don't want to see happen with the garbage bag
issue. That's why I brought it in here. I want to see something implemented
in here, if in fact this thing does become law, where we're not going to be
confronted with a set of circumstances,like we are with the stump grinder right
now, over the plastic bags. So, if you can give me personal assurance, some
resolution.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: As you said, I'm not going to be here forever.
BOB GAMMON: So, that we can't change this thing around, and cost the taxpayer
a greater amount of money in five years, eights years down the road. That's what
my primary concern is.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you, Bob. All the way in the front?
RICHARD WILTON: My name is Richard Wilton, and I guess my comments are
aimed at the commercial waste stream, of which my business does produce some.
The waste that comes from my business is basically a dry waste. There are other
businesses in town, that would have a heavier waste stream, fish processing plant,
restaurant, many business like that. I'm confused how you equate by volume,which
your bag would be, the cost of disposing garbage to volume. I don't see anyway
of relating one to the other. The other problem I have is, I really can't ask my
customers to buy garbac3e bags to put garbage. I think that would backfire, and
it would end up with paper bags in the street, which I don't think anybody wants.
I'~n wondering, have you considered the total added cost of handling garbage or
waste to the general tax base, and distribute it evenly?.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Councilwoman Hussie?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: May I answer your last question first? Yes, it was
considered. There were two public meetings held to try to determine how we were
going to pay for the removal of ~arbage from town, if and when we had to do it.
Nine to one people choose not to have it in the tax base. Their feelings was, that
it was more equatable if it was a user fee. If you generate a lot of garbage, you
PG 7 - LL Garbage, F bish & Refuse
pay for a lot of garbage. If you only generate a little bit, you pay for only a
little bit, and you can easily see how that would work. You could have two homes
next to each other, both assessed at the same amount, both paying the same amount
of taxes, one has a one person household, the other one is a six person household,
obviously the six person household is going to generate a lot more garbage. Why
should they only pay x dollars, and so is the household with one person pay the
same amount?
RICHARD WILTON: The same arguement might hold true with the Police Department,
Hic~hway Department, and all the other service departments.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: To get to your weight to volume, we have rely on a certain
extent so far on tests, that Shelter Island has done. They spent two weeks. They
have three different sizes of bags. They spent two weeks weighing them, as they
came in, and they found that a bag of certain dimensions carried a certain number
of pounds. We might do the same things, or we might rely on theirs. In any
event, this whole law has two purposes. One to urge people to recycle, so that
they don't fill up the bag with unnecessary volume of things, that they don't have
to pay for, and two, to actually barely pay for all of the garbage, that we're going
to have to ship out. The price per bag is going to be determined by the cost
of the shipping, and the disposal of the garbage. It's going to be strictly a
mathematical division. That's more than you wanted to know, isn't it?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Anybody else in the center, and then I'll go back to my
right. There's a gentleman in the back with his hand up. Yes, sir?
JOHN LADEMANN: John Lademann. Cutchogue. I disagree with the price in the
paper, which was quoted about $3.00, $2.00 $1.00 based on Shelter Island. That's a
unique situation, where you take a truck over on the ferry, I think we're going
to find a lot of garbage on the side of the roads, and nobody is going to prosecute.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: You're absolutely right, Mr. Lademann. Those numbers
should never have been published. They are what Shelter Island is paying, based
on the fact that they are now paying in the neighborhood of $129.00 a ton to remove
garbage, and they have the ferry fees, and all that sort of stuff. Those numbers
are not applicable to Southold.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you. In the middle?
HAROLD WINTERS: Harold Winters. Cutchogue. Do you have any estimate as
to how much it would cost for let's say for a family of four to dispose of their
c~arbage? We have this $25.00 fee, plus another added cost per bag. I would
estimate it would cost close to $250.00 a year, because speaking for myself I dump
at least three bags a week of 30 inch bags, so I'm thinking of the total cost to
the resident, or to the individual family, and seems exorbitant to me, and I think
you can define exactly what is recyclable, or as you mentioned, Mr. Wickham men-
tioned it is a possible problem. I think you should expand the recyclable material.
I mean there is a certain amount of garbage, that can be recycled, and put into
a mulch, and I think what we need is a little more in depth studies, that would
reduce the size of the bag, and the amount of bags, that are not recyclable, and
thereby reducing the cost. I feel, that as I said, for myself I estimate about
$250.00 a year. I think that's a hell of a lot of money to get rid of garbage.
Pg 8 - LL Garbage, F bish & Refuse
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: For four people that might be the right amount, however,
you are probably not recycling everything that you could recycle. Right now, people
in $outhold Town are recycling about 90% of all the available newspapers, which
is really good, but you get down to things like plastic. We're only recycling 16%
of what we could recycle, and two things that people don't..I don't know, maybe
you don't know about it, is junk mail, and slick magazines, and that sort of stuff,
and corrugated cardboard. Those are also recyclable.
HAROLD WINTERS: The only thing I would be guilty of would be junk mail.
Everything else I recycle, and I still have that amount of garbage.
COUNCILWOMAN HUS$1E: You know it's very difficult, because there are some
people who are extremely thrifty. There are some people who are very, very
careful about it. I recycle the blooming cans, and glass in the three different
colors, and the plastic, and I have a compost pile, and I do the junk mail, and
I do the other stuff. With a household of one, I manage to gather together a half
of a garbage bag every two weeks. Really. Really. You're darn right. Yes.
I do.
HAROLD WINTERS: Whatever can be recycled, where there are bins provided for
that material, I take advantage of it. I still have three thirty gallon bags. When
we have guests it's more.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: We have everything in the law, that could be recyclable,
which is metal, cans, plastics, numbers one and two, green glass, brown glass,
clear glass. Those are in the law
HAROLD WINTERS: Fine. I do it all. I still have four garbage bags.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Newspapers. The things that aren't written in the law,
that are also recyclable are corrugated cardboard, and junk mail.
HAROLD WINTERS: I still say, there should be foods that can be recycled, and
it should be included in the recycling, because the more I read in the..
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: You're talking about home composting. That is something
that anybody can do without a law from the town.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you. Now I'm going to go to my right, and all
the way in the back, this gentleman.
WILLIAM METZ: William Metz. Just on Shelter Island when they did their study
for two weeks on the garbage bags, did it rain at any time during those two weeks?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: The garbage bags were closed, so that the rain doesn't
go into them.
WILLIAM METZ: So, that couldn't effect the weight or anything, right?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: I suppose if it wasn't done scientifically by a rocket
scier~tist. It was a study done with closed garbage bags.
WILLIAM METZ: I worked for recyclers before, and that was a big factor was
the rain.
Pg 9 - LL Garbage, R' "bish & Refuse
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: That is a factor, especially in open trucks.
WILLIAM METZ: It could cost $60,000 in a week, it could cost them more on their
bill, so I was just wondering if it was raining during that time, if the bags were
closed. No problem, right?
LINDA LEVY: My name is Linda Levy. I'm the Southold Coordinator for the North
Fork Environmental Council. On behalf of the North Fork Envrionmental Council
I would like to begin by stating our approval of the concept of required non-
recyclable garbage to be disposed of in specially marked bags. We believe that
this and any other system in which residents pay to dispose of non-recycled garbage
will lead to the beneficial outcome of increased re-cycling. However, we are con-
cerned at this time about the crucial question of where this non-recyclable garbage
will end up. As we all know, we must stop burying this garbage at the Landfill
by October 9, 1993. As was reported in today's Newsday, the State Supreme
Court has made it quite clear that no extensions will be granted. For the last
several months all we have heard about was the "Twigs for Trash" trade with Hunt-
ington. Two weeks ago our Solid Waste Task Force reported that such a trade
would not be cost effective. This leaves us with nothing to trade and no real plan
for disposing of our garbage. At the Town Board work session two weeks ago,
Supervisor Harris made it clear that in his opinion, our only option was to truck
our garbage to be burned at the Huntington incinerator and pay the costs. Even
at that time, Supervisor Harris was unable to tell us what the actual trucking costs
of such an arrangement would be. We are very concerned that so much time,
money, and energy has been spent investigating the trade, without researching
a backup plan in case the deal fell through. With the October 9 deadline, any
leverage to get a good price with another plan has been lost. I would also like
to go on record that we do not believe that trucking and burning our garbage
is a good alternative. We would have like to see a safer, more environmentally
sound approach to the disposal of our garbage thoroughly investigated. Now it
seems we have run out of time. It is ironic that Southold residents will now be
carefully sorting their garbage to re-cycle as much as possible, only to have the
remainder burned, polluting the air and ending up as ash which, by the way,
cannot be disposed of either. For a long time now garbage disposal has been the
issue that wouldn't go away in Southold. The residents of Southold are justifiably
tired of hearing about this subject, but our elected officials are not so justified.
It is your responsibility to solve this problem in a legal, safe, and cost-effective
manner. We hope you do so soon.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you. Linda, could you stay there for a minute?
I'd like to address a couple of the comments, that you made in there. First of
all, it wasn't the Task Force that made the determination on whether it would be
effective or not to do the swap with Huntington. The DEC made that determination
for us with our engineering firm. The Solid Waste Task Force just confirmed what
the engineering firm had said, that we don't have the space at the present time
under the present rules and regulations Part 360, in order to take the twigs for
trash that would come from Huntington and Smithtown, So, our options were limited
by the DEC, and the Part 360 rules and regulations apparently right after the
engineering study came out with that finding. The Task Force backed it up with
some economics, but the same conclusion was reached. We just don't have the space.
As far as options that are consistent with what the Town has done, this Town has
looked throughout Long Island for other options in order to satisfy the solid waste
needs of our residents. Huntington and Smithtown right now offered the most
attractive long term deal, that we could see on the horizon, and that deal was set
up at $65.00 a ton, which everybody knows, which the Task Force heard, and
Pg 10 - LL Garbage, .bbish & Refuse
of course the Town Board heard when Huntington and Smithtown came out with
it. However, it doesn't mean that that is our only option. There are many vendors
out there that will take our solid waste out of our township to places unknown.
Whether they are long term is what the concern of the Task Force, and the concern
of the Town Board is. Obviously Huntington and Smithtown would be long term.
Those who would take our garbage to points elsewhere, where we don't have any
idea of it's outcome, or it's final destination may not be considered to be long term.
It may be only short term, and that has been the concern for some time. We're
looking for a long term viable solution, not something that's short term, will come
again, and resurrect itself.
LINDA LEVY: Do you have any idea when you'll know what the options are, and
make your choice of what we're going to do?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: The Town Board has asked the Task Force to go out, and
see if they can get some prices for short term based on what the outcome may be
of the litigation. We have not gotten together yet with the three towns, obviously.
We just heard about this today. Obviously, the judgement has not been sent out
yet. This is just word that has been handed down from the courts. When the
three towns get together, we'll pursue our options with our attorneys to find out
if there's any other recourse at this time, and also, the Town Board, and the Task
Force are looking into going either to 103 proposal, which is a proposal which would
then look at confirming what prices would be to take solid waste out of the township
on a competitive basis.
LINDA LEVY: The only thing I say, Scott, is that really when you say you just
found out about this today, is the fact that we've known that this day was coming
sooner or later for a long time, and I don't think that it's really quite fair to make
it sound like, oh, we just found out today that we..
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Well, if you knew about the litigation, and the outcome
from the Judge you knew more than anybody else in this world knew, Linda,
because it was just decreed today. All I'm saying to you is, we have looked at
the alternatives along with the other three towns, and are still looking for the
most cost effective solution to Southold Town at the present time. We have some,
obviously, some solutions in sight, some short term, some we consider maybe long
term. We still have time to put those to work for the people of Southold Town.
We are taking our time, as we have been for the last three and a half years, saving
the residents of this Township, as well as other townships anywhere between four
and six million dollars in our deliberations, and slowly approaching this, and not
going in haphazardly. Thank you.
PHILIP VANI3OURGONDIEN: Phil VanBourgondien. I spoke already this evening
before you arrived. I have some thoughts on the going out to finding places to
take the solid waste. Is that better to wait until later this evening to cover that?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: If you would, Mr. VanBourgondien. Right now, and I
got off the topic, also, a little bit with Mrs. Levy, but the public hearing is really
set for the garbage by the bag. That's what the public hearing is on for. Certainly
after that public hearing is closed we can go to any other subject, or subject that
you would feel appropriate to talk about at that time.
Pg 11 - LL Garbage, ~bish & Refuse
PHILIP VANBOURGONDIEN: My question right at the moment is, I have two
daughters who live in the Town of Smithtown, and I recently spent some time with
them, and I was just amazed at the lack of discipline in the recycling there. In
one case, this is a question that I am putting to Mrs. Hussie. One of my children
has a trash compacter. Into the trash compacter goes milk bottles, plastic, waxed
milk containers, orange juice, etc. All goes into it. By the time you lift that thing
out of that trash compacter, and put it in a bag, it probably weighs sixty pounds.
Now, is it fair for somebody, who has a trash compacter, to put it into a $3.00
bag, when I'm putting maybe twenty-five pounds in the same $3.00 bag? ~ very
seldom agree with Mr. Lizewski, but he mentions about weight, paying by weight,
and that's something I would like to have you reconsider. Is it better to go by
bag, or is it better to go by weight. If compacted there's an awful lot of recycables
are going to be stuck into garbage.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: You're right, and there is a possibility. However, these
bags are going to be see through, so hopefully people will do that. On the other
hand, the average, we're talking about an average, and of course, there are a
certain number of people, who have compacters, and there are other people who
are going to put a corn flake box without crushing it down, so we do feel that
it will average out. You or Joe, with his compacter, might do a little bit better
than the rest of us.
PHILIP VANBOURGONDIE~I: Thank you.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Anybody else in the center? If not I'll move to my left.
ED $1EGMANN: Ed $iegmann. Anything that I've read about in the last four years
in reference to this garbage thing has always said that trucking was the most
expensive way to go. If we pay for bags, and we pay for trucking, I would like
to know what the comparison is of the cost of that compared to the Town doing
something with the garbage, and I have question for you. Four years ago, we
were told that we didn't want a plant, we have a plan. Is this the plan, that you're
giving now, or was that a different plan at that timer and if it was different plan
at that time that you had, I would like you to tell us what it is, and maybe we
can make a choice between this, and what the plan was at that time?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Mr. Siegmann, thank you for the political statement. I
don't think this is the place for it. There's a campaign coming up. If you'd like
to reiterate on that I'll be glad to address it. Please, I have the floor. No, sir,
you have said your piece. No, sir. Please, have some courtesy. I said before
if we responded to question, I would expect the courtesy. I don't expect political
motivation here toni§hr. We are all in a very serious problem, which we've been
in for a number of years, that deals with the economics of this town. The Task
Force, volunteers, have been working very hard for a number of years to come
up with an alternative, or solution, that everybody can be satified with. That
Task Force has come up with the solution garbage by the bag, and that Task Force
had two public hearings in reference to this. They hear the same comments, that
we're going to hear tonight from the people, how they felt about it, and how they
wanted to deliberate on paying for it. Overwhelmingly, the people at both of those
public hearings stated that they wanted to pay by bag. They did not want it as
part of their taxes. That was an overwhelming decision in both of those public
hearings, that the Task Force held. Now, is there any other questions, Mr.
$iegmann, of Mrs. Hussie, who chairs the Task Force in relation to garbage by
the bag~ I'd be glad to entertain it?
Pg 12 - LL Garbage, ~bish & Refuse
ED SIEGMANN: Number one, any of the comments I made tonight was not directed
to the Task Force. That's number one, so don't make it sound like I'm criticizing
the Task Force for anything.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That is not part of this public hearing, Mr. Siegmann.
ED SIEGMANN: I didn't bring the Task Force up. You just did.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: No. You brought up a political campaign slogan. It's not
part of this public hearing.
ED SIEGMANN: The last three times I talked at these meetings, you criticized me
for political speeches, and I want to tell you everytime I read the newspaper, I
read political speeches from you and George Penny. I don't have the opportunity
to put in the newspaper the things that you do.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Sure, you do.
ED SIEGMANN: The only place I can express myself is at a meeting like this,
and I intend to do so.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Mr. Siegmann, I would never deny you the opportunity
to speak to this Town Board at the appropriate time. That certainly is your God
given right, and I happen to respect that, and also appreciate the comment that
you made, because I also stick up, and fight for that same constitutional right,
and residential right, that you have. However, we have a public hearing on
garbage by the bag. I'd like to get back to it at this time. Now, yes, ma'am?
BARBARA KEARN: My name is Barbara Kearn. I am a Southold town resident,
as well as a local business person, and I'm particularly concerned with my commer-
cial garbage, and the cost that it will ultimately add to my every day operation,
as well as the time involved in sorting, which I understand it has to be. I have
a dumpster, and it is a usual situation, that people dump in my dumpster.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Do you mean besides yourself, people other than you?
BARBARA KEARN: Yes. I had spoken to a number of other people, and they
claim the same. They find personal garbage in their dumpsters. Nothing sorted,
of course. Anyway, not only will I be personally responsible for certain additional
charges, but my business will be, and I would like to know..I mean I could possible
generate three bags of garbage a day, I mean if it was as much as $3.00, and
I have a business where it's all disposables. I've even seen people walk into my
store, and throw their garbage in my store. It's almost impossible to keep
recycling within the store, because I don't get any cooperation from people. I have
a can box. I have a bottle box. No one does it. No one cares. Maybe, because
it's not their property, it's mine, but if I have as much as three bags a day, and
I do worry about weight from the dumpster, or the regular sanitation charges,
that I pay monthly, I would estimate at this time, that that would probably put
me out of business. If I had to do three bags a day, seven a week, I mean, we're
talking exorbitant amount of money, as much.. I mean that could be $3,000 a year.
That is not my personel garbage either.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Let me just suggest, first of all, this Local Law addresses
the commercial sector of the town. I can let Councilwoman Hussie speak to that,
Pg ~3 - LL Garbage, · .bish & Refuse
or Assistant Town Attorney Matt Kiernan. The commercial sector of the town has
been given an option in the Local I_aw. If you had a small business, that did not
generate a lot of solid waste, and you felt that the bag option, and you were a
self-hauler now, as a commercial establishment, that would certainly not prohibit
you from using aba§, and §oing, as you constantly do, let's say once a ~a¥, or
maybe every two or three days. However, you also have the option, as a commer-
cial hauler to pay by the weight, and by paying by the weight, that is in the Local
Law, the carters, the commercial carters in this town, if you are not a self-hauler.
If you're a self-hauler, you'll be able to be weighed if you went across, and put
it in the truck. However, if you're not a self-hauler, and you have a commercial
carter, that commercial carter's truck will be weighed, or the dumpster will be
weighed. They'll know approximately how much you're generating from that, and
you'll be charged accordingly by the town by what you generate, as far as solid
waste into that dumpster. Whether that's a weekly basis, a monthly basis, that's
up to the individual carter. But, that is in the law. The option is there. It
certainly is not rigid. We gave the opportunity to people, who are small, that
didn't have a commercial carter, who were self-haulers, to be able to take it by
the bag, if they felt so. If they wanted to bring it up in a truck, and be weighed,
they certainly had that option. That is all built into the law.
I~ARE~ARA KEARN: I would also like to suggest, that it an official law, that anyone
caught dumping in a public or private dumpster, that somebody pays for, be subject
to' very heavy fines, and penalties.
SIJPERVISOR HARRIS: That already is a law on the books. It is not an uncommon,
what you said, it is not a local law by the town, but there is a law. It's called
theft of services. It does exist already. The Police have been notified on many
occasions, by businesses, who have gone after individuals, as a matter of fact,
after finding out. In the bags that had dumped people's envelopes, people's
adresses, and so on, advising them what had been found in there. It's very
hard to enforce unless somebody actually sees them do it. There's no way of
knowing if that actual person actually perpetrated that crime. Those who have
been seen, and caught, have paid for that part of what you're mentioning, which
is the theft of service. That is not uncommon. I hear that a lot from businesses,
but it's very hard to catch individuals, if it's in back of a business, and it's in
a dark place, and somebody knows it's there, and knows it's unlocked. Most stores
have them in the back. They don't have them in the front. They certainly would
not put them in the front, just for that reason. That's why they do that.
Yes, all the way in the back. Mr. Carlin?
FRANK CARLIN: Frank Carlin. I have to streamline what I'm going to say tonight,
because evidently you get criticized about mentioning anything about politics, or
political. Fact there I put it in my computer. I'm going to streamline it. I can't
see, and I showed you two months, I held up a box there with thirty-six bags
in it. Thirty-three gallons, or forty-five gallons, and I paid $4.00 for that box.
I can't see giving you $3.00 for your bag, when I can go out, and I can buy 36
of them for $4.00, number one. I have to admire Riverhead Town. They don't
have a plan that's 100%, but they have a plan, where they issued out tubs, and
they pay a fee, sure they pay a fee. I don't know what it is, $190.00, $200.00
a year, but they pay a fee. But everything is taken care of. One day it's glass.
One day it's paper. One day it's refrigerators, and so on. You know where you're
at. I admire them for that. What we got here, we have copying from Shelter
Island. We can't compare Shelter Island with Southold Town. Shelter Island has
2,300 people compared to 20,000 people. That's why. You can't use that as a
Pg 14 - LL Garbage, P ~bish & Refuse
guide. I say, either charge by the pound, or charge a fixed fee. Look, you're
charging..you're up to $.03 a pound now in the landfill. You're up to $25.00 a
landfill permit, and what is it, ten dollars for appliances and things? You're up
to almost $50.00 now. Well, charge a fixed fee, and let the p'eopler use the
bags they want to. ~/hy should ~ have to take my time to go get a bag, what you
want me to use. That don't make sense to me. That's dictatorship, as far as
I'm concerned, telling me what I got to do. (tape change) to pay you $4.00 for
a bag.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: $3.00 or whatever the price per bag turns out to be
is not for the bag itself. It represents the cost of getting rid of the garbage in
the bag.
FRANK CARLIN: It doesn't make no difference. Charge a fixed fee. Get it over
with. Let the people know what they're paying. Let them use what bags they
want. You people, you have to get something now, because you don't have any-
thing, so you're grasping. You're taking what Shelter Island has done, and hoping
that it will work, and you're going to tell me that we started with $85.00. Hey,
a year from now it's going to be up to $150.00 a ton, and then you're going to
see all of a sudden $3.00 a bag will be $4.00 a bag.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: We have used Shelter Island as a example, especially
publically, but it is not the only place that we have looked into. We've gone to upstate
New York, and looked at other towns up there, who are getting rid of garbage,
either by the tag or by the bag. We're not just imitating Shelter Island. Shelter
Island is close. Everybody when we explain it can relate to Shelter Island. We
realize that Shelter Island has 1/10th the population. We are not huge though.
It's not impossible for us to do the same thing. We are trying to look for a
equitable solution, so if you generate a lot of garbage, you pay for it, and if you
don't generate a lot of garbage, you don't pay for it.
FRANK CARLIN: Councilwoman Hussie, because Governor Cuomo signed a bill I
should address you as Councilwoman Hussie.
COUNCILWOMAN HLISSIE: What bill was that?
FRANK CARLIN: To be addressed according to their title.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Frank, I want to recognize Councilman Wickham if you didn't
have a response to that.
FRANK CARLIN: What?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Do you have a response for Councilwoman Hussie, otherwise
I'll recognize Councilman Wickham.
FRANK CARLII'~I: Councilman Wickham? Sure. I have one, but go ahead.
COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: A number of comments have been made tonight, and mostly
I think the Board is here to listen, and not to make a lot of comments. There
are a few observations, that I would like to make, that I think have been touched
on at a number of points. The Task Force did take a lead in developing this way
back a couple of years ago, when I was chairing at that time. At that time, the
Town Board was really quite disinterested. I would say reluctant to take up the
idea of a per bag, or a per charge for garbage. The fact of the matter is that
Pg 15 - LL Garbage, I )bish & Refuse
the Town of $outhold is going incur major costs to comply with the law of the
State of New York. The Courts have just reaffirmed that today. We've known
all along that it's happening. Those costs at today's prices are more or less a
million dollars a year, more or less. There are roughly 8,500 households in the
Town of Southold. That means that in one form or another, it's going to cost us
a million dollars divided by 8,500 or so, or about $120.00 or $130.00 per household
to get rid of our garbage. Now, we've got a choice of how to do that. We can
put it in our general tax base, and it can be added to our taxes. Alternatively,
we could do it in some manner that is related to how much garbage we generate.
That was the proposition, that the Task Force took to the town in two, or three
informational meetings back a year and three quarters ago. At that time most of
the people at those meetings after a full and extensive discussion said, if we have
to do it, pay it one way or another, we think that on a per bag basis would be
better. Now, there are two or three ways to do it on a per bag. It doesn't have
to be that the Town buys these bags, although that's what is in our hearing tonight.
We could do it on a tag basis whereby you can use your own bags, but you have
to purchase tags to affix to the bags, which could then be priced at the same basic
level that we're talking about here. Now, I'r~ not recommending that. I'm just
saying that there are two or three different ways to skin this cat. The point is
that in one fashion or another there's the town when it starts complying with the
law of the State of New York is going to have to pay roughly a million dollars a
year to get rid of our so-called non-recyclable waste. Now, the last point I want
to make at this stage is the recycling issue. The Town has increased it's re-
cycling significantly over the years. We're doing a fairly good job, but it has
leveled off, and there's been not much improvement recently. If we were to do
this everybody should understand that your recyclable products would not be
charged. You would be free to deposit those at the landfill at no cost. So there's
every incentive to recycle as much as possible. The Town could go a lot further
than it's c_jone up until now to facilitate recycling. We could put in new catagories
for example. There could even be a catagory, there's not at this time, we could
put for example a composting system of handling of kitchen waste. So that wouldn't
necessarily have to go over as the payable per bag type. There's a lot of things
we could do~ We also could educate the public, and hold meetings, etc., in ways
to better recycle to keep down that cost. That is the thinking that went behind
this proposal when it first came, but the bottom line is there's about a million dollars
out there, that's going to have to be paid very shortly. The question before us
tonight isn't the plan of where the garbage is going. It's how are we going to
ask the residents of the Town of Southold to pay that money~ Thank you, Scott.
FRANK CARLIN: I agree with you on that. You have a problem, but this problem
didn't happen overnight. It happened over almost eleven years already. Since
1983 we knew about closing our landfill by 1990, so we done nothing about it, and
then the DEC gave us three more years, so we fought it in court, spending the
taxpayers' money, knowing that we'd lose anyway, and then the DEC says, the
show is over, the curtain comes down October the 8th, and now we're fishing for
something that we can grab at, that we really don't even have in our hands. Frank
Murphy in 1989 wanted a composting plant, and everybody laughedat him. Then
you all sat up there in front of the meeting with Joe Sawicki, and said, we had
a plan. Now, I know what the plan was. Three years fighting the DEC in court
with the taxpayers' money. The trouble is with this Board, and I'm going to finish
right now before I got~O far here. I'll get arrested, when this public hearing is
over with.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: You're borderline right now, Frank.
Pg 16 - LL Garbage, '~bish ~- Refuse
FRANK CARLIN: There's too much gridlock, too much studies, getting nowhere.
You remind me of Washington with your gridlock, but the only thing different with
Southold Town Board is, that in Washington they don't give out Pinnochio or Susan
Lucci awards.
SHELLY SCOGGIN: Shelly Scoggin. I consider myself an enviromentalist, and
business owner. It is possible to be both. I would like to say that I think pay
by the bag is very viable, and once you have separated out your junk mail, and
all your recyclables, and all your newspapers, and your corrugated, there really
isn't very much left. That doesn't scare me. What's distressing to me is the
busness waste. I don't understand why the carters aren't forced to recycle. I
understand it's difficult for them, but for them to pay by the pound, and then
you throw everything in there, the whole reason to recycle is lost. I mean, I
understand it's cost effective for them to not have to deal with it, but it's rather
wasteful for everybody to be working so hard to recycle at home, yet to throw
it on a commercial dumpster, and mix it all together, because they choose to pay
by the pound. I'm a little confused. Are they going to be able at some point to
pick this stuff? They'll never have to pick it up?
COUNCILMAN PENNY: They're not supposed to pick materials, that has commingled
recycables in it. That is one area where the Town has been trying to work with the
business community to promote recycling. It's going to get to a matter of very
strict inforcement which in answer to Frank Carlin's question, why can't he just
go out, and but his own bag? The Town bags will be clear. The Town will not
be accepting materials from residents, or businesses with commingled recyclables
in it. That law has been in effect for some time now, but we just haven't been
quite as tough in enforcement as we could have been, although we have started
with a lot of self-haulers at the landfill. The whole reason for recycling is,
recycling not only makes sense, it reduces your waste, but it's mandated by the
State of New York, and part of our Solid Waste Management Plan. The overall
goal is to recycle, reuse, about 80% of our waste stream. We are still headed for
that goal.
SHELLY SCOGGIN: So you're saying commercial carters will?
COUNCILMAN PENNY: Commercial carters will pick up your recyclables, and there
is going to be a point where the Town will not except material from them at our
landfill..
SHELLY SCOGGIN: When will that happen?
COUNCILMAN PENNY: It should be happening now. There should be more enforce-
ment of it now. The law is already in effect. A lot of people are cheating.
SHELLY SCOGGIN: They're not cheating. There's one big dumpster. I mean,
there's one big thing, you know. I put my cardboard next to the dumpster, neatly
tied. I put my newspapers, neatly tied, right next to the dumpster, and then
the truck comes, and it all gets thrown on the truck, and the dumpster gets
dumped in, and it all get thrown in. I mean it's frustrating to work at recycling,
but the other thing I wanted to ask you is possible to set up a junk mail recycling
bin in the post office, because that is where the largest amount of junk mail gets
thrown~'
Pg 17 - LL Garbage, [ ,bish & Refuse
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Shelly, that idea has been broached by a number of indivi-
duals. The problem there is that people are going to dump everything into it.
I know what's going to happen. The same problem that happens with some of these
commercial dumpsters in the back of businesses at night, when nobody is around,
will happen with these same facilities that would be in central locations. It won't
end up with junk mail. It will end up with household garbage. People that are leaving
for the weekend, that are going away, going back out of town, those individuals.
SHELLY SCOGGIN: There could be just a little slot, and then you could just put
paper in it.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That's certainly something that certainly could be looked
into as far as the design of it goes, but I'm telling you the basic concept of just
having as a central facility will be abused. We already know that. We already
know from the trash barrels, that we have out at all out Town facilities, what gets
put in those after a weekend, and it is not strictly what is generated at the beach.
SHELLY SCOGGIN: Right. But you tell the business people, don't worry, we'll
try to enforce it, but all of a sudden when it becomes..the post office and their
junk mail you say it's not enforceable, and you know, we have to watch ours, and
houndog ours, you know, maybe the post office could watch theirs.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you, Shelly. There are two of the major carters
in the room. I would certainly give them an opportunity. Do you pick up, Roy,
or John? Do you pick upi I'll give you the opportunity to certainly answer what
was alleged here.
TODD SCHELIN: My name is Todd Schelin. I'm representing North Fork Sanitation,
a commercial carter in the Town of Southold. I'd like to reply to Shelly's points,
that she brought up, concerning the business establishments that might opt for
by the pound basis, in ~vhich case you brought up that they might stuff nonre-
cyclable waste into their containers, and there wouldn't be cost effective for them
to recycle, what she's bringing up. They could just stuff it into the container,
and pay the same amount. In the course of the past two weeks I've spoken to
approximately 25 of our commercial customers, some large, some small, trying to
feel them out on exactly how they feel about this issue, and the iSsue that's being
brought up of them having the option of by the bag, or paying by the weight.
Many of these 25 people, or 25 establishments, I talked to decided that they would
like the by the bag system, because it would be cheaper in the long run. Basically
when you had a container on a job site, the container may fill up with water, and
another thing that's brought up with by the bag system is the container is not
completely full. When we dump the container we may assume that it is completely
full just to cover our cost. When it is by the bag system the commercial establish-
raents realize that they are paying only for what they put into the bag. If the
container is not completely full, it really doesn't matter, because everything is
being put into the bag, so many of them have indicated that they do like by the
bag system. I'd, also, like to let her know, that we have stepped up our com-
mercial recycling. We've made available all kinds of stickers, information. Any
commercial establishment that does want to recycle we pick up anything that they
have free of charge. I think she also mentioned that some newspapers were placed
next to her container, and she believes they're being taken, and maybe being thrown
right into the garbage truck. All our garbage trucks are now equipped with a
bin on the side where they can take recyclables. They do pick up cardboard.
They pick up newspapers from commercial establishments while they pick up the
garbage. So, she's putting her newspapers next to the container. The container
Pg 18 - LL Garbage, I~ bish & Refuse
is being dumped. The newspapers are being put on the side of the truck. When
the container goes to the dump the newspapers are unloaded in the recycling area,
and the garbage is brought out back, and disposed of in the current landfill.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Schelin. Okay, anybody else at this time?
YVETTE MELLENDER: My name is Yvette Mellender, and I live in t~lattituck. I
was trying to think of something to say, it's a question. I know there's been a
lot of people working very hard on this, and I'm sort of disgrunted, but I don't
see a lot of things going on, like other alternatives, but I do know that the Task
Force has worked very hard. My question is as I'm sitting here I'm thinking,
I'm sure the Task Force has taken into consideration people who can't afford the
bags. Is there any provisions for somebody who doesn't have the money to pay
for a bag to do something with their garbage? I rnean right now you can take
your shopping bag, and tie it up, and put something in it, but what provisions
have been made for people who can't afford to pay for the bags?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: There is no provision that I know that I know of, that
is going to have one person subsidized by another in this Local Law to my knowledge.
YVETTE MELLENDER: It would be something to think about, because I don't think
the people are poor by choice, and I think it would be something to take up.
We can't turn our backs on things that are happening in our town, and I just think
it is something to be thought about.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Councilwoman Hussie?
COUNClLV¢OMAN HUSSIE: Mrs. Mellender, this was brought up by some people
on the Task Force. We did consider it. We realize that there are some people,
who are more strapped than others, arid this is an extra burden for us all. However,
we were unable to arrive at some sort of equatable decision on who are these
people who really can not afford it, because a lot of people..if you go with some-
body who is on welfare, or go with somebody who has a restricted income, very
ofter they are not willing to admit, you know, submit any papers. How can we
do it? If you have a solution.
YVETTE MELLENDER: It is something that should be thought about.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: You're right, and if you can come up with an idea,
tell me.
YVETTE MELLENDER: I'm not on the Task Force.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: That's okay. I'll listen anyway.
YVETTE MELLENDER: I think that you should think about what I'm saying.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you. Anybody else at this time?
JOAN WELLS: Joan ~'ells. Mattituck. First, I was just wondering, is this just
Long Island that's being effected, or is it just forks of Long Island, because 100
miles frora here in New Jersey they're just dumping stuff. They don't seem to
known anything about what's going on. Is Staten Island going to closed down,
too?
Pg 19 - LL Garbac~e, R 'bish & Refuse
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: No. In 1983, again just to digress, in 1983 the State
Legislature signed into law the Long Island Landfill Bill. It's strictly for Nassau
and Suffolk.
JOAN WELLS: Why are they just after us?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: The primary design of the legislation was because of our
sole source aquifer, obviously that we live over our drinking water, and the design
of the .legislation was to protect and enhance the drinking water for our future
generations. Somebody through many studies had made a determination that landfills
were one of the contributing factors.
JOAN WELLS: Right. Well, I'll agree with that, because they know that this is
happening in New Jersey also over tremendous aquifers, but they're still just dumping,
and dumping, and dumping, and I haven't really been following what's going on out
there, but we're going to be full-time residents, and I don't think the timing is
right. Why are they just coming after this area, and not other areas~. Where are
we going to have to ship this to?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: One of the interesting points that were made over the years
through our litigation with the DEC, and the State Legislature, and the Attorney
General, was the very fact that we felt that our landfill was in a unique position,
that we're not threatening the groundwater. We have done a tremendous
hydro study based on, again, State mandates, cost the taxpayers close to $400,000
somewhere in the neighborhood, to do this study. We are still waiting for the
delisting from the State of New York, which we applied for which shows that our
landfill is not a threat to the environment as far as a potential inactive hazardous
waste site. However, it does not preclude us from being exempt, or being included,
I should say, in the Long Island Landfill Law regardless of your landfill, whether
it was polluting, or whether it wasn't. The Long Island Landfill Law blanketly
covered every operating landfill in Nassau, and Suffolk.
JOAN WELLS: ~'¥here will we be sending our garbage?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That is what has been worked on. Huntington and Smithtown
were one of the options, that are available to us right now, based on cost, based
on state of the art facility, based on what we know. There are other operators
out there, long haulers of solid waste. Whether they are long term, or whether
they're not, is something that this Board has to make a determination in the next,
obviously, month or two. We have worked on this for a number of years. Our
Solid Waste Management Plan first allowed the landfill to go into a double composite
cell, that thought to be the best choice at the time to handle our own garbage
in our own backyard, and not to be sort of held hostage by anybody else. However,
the DEC, again, has made sure that we can't even have that as a viable option.
It's always at the discretion of the Commissioner of the DEC, and based on that
legislation, and that language in the legislation, we will never be able to move in
that direction. The only direction we can move in is the one which we have done
over a number of years, which was to litigate, to challange it, stick up and fight
for the taxpayers of this town, as well as the other three towns, who were affected,
and to date we have done a pretty job, but the courts unfortunately have seen
fit to sustained the legislation that has been in place, and we are now coming do~vn
to the fact that we have to now make a decision what to do from this point on.
The EPA has kicked in now. This is the Environmental Protection Agency. They
have kicked in, the Federal government. It's one thing to take on the State of
New York, and fight for what you feel is constitutional rights. It's another thing
Pg 20 - LL Garbage, ~ ~bish & Refuse
to take on the Federal government, and now they've taken on all fifty states, and
they're mandating what's going to happen to landfills as of October 9th, so there's
a new player, and this new player says all landfills that continue to operate after
October 9th are going to be going to be under onerous and expensive regulations,
more so than anybody can fathom into probably the year 2000.
JOAN WELLS: I'd just like to state that I'm probably more in favor of whatever
have with Huntington and Smithtown, rather than long hauling, because most of
us have seen on TV, that's been pretty well covered with trains, and trucks, and
garbage going from place to place.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: As a matter of fact, the Congress, excuse me, ladies and
gentlemen, because I know this is not really part of the pul~lic hearing, but there
was a question asked in reference to this, the Cho~tesamendment is a piece of legis-
lation that Congress and the Senate have enacted which gives the states the option
to accept or reject solid waste, that comes in through their boundaries, through
their state boundaries. We don't know what the effect of this legislation will be.
Time will tell, but those states who never wanted solid waste to come into state
as a dumping ground will have the opportunity now, through this legislation, to
deny those individuals, whether they're long haulers, whoever the businesses are
that are bringing them in, and that will shut down those operations. So the Federal
government has been involved, and to answer your question solid waste is a nation-
wide problem, and has been for some time. All the way in the back, yes sir?
DICK HOBSON: My name is Dick Hobson. Cutchogue. You've been talking a lot
about garbage. A good part of the garbage stream is green vegetable matter.
Now, why dor~'t you more vigorously promote home composting~. I have a couple
of bins in my backyard. It cuts down my trips to the dump once a week, not a
couple of times. It doesn't create any odor, and makes some fine stuff to throw
in your soil in the garden. I would think you would start a campaign to do that.
Even Agway is selling these bins now. Why doesn't the Board really get behind
that, and encourage that?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That's been part of our recycling brochures, that we have
sent out in the past.
DICK HOBSON: There's no emphasis about it.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Well, it's one of a number recycling.
DICK HOBSON: It would cut down on your waste stream.
SLIPERVISOR HARRIS: You're absolutely correct. Thank you. Very good point.
AL RICHARDS: Good evening. Al Richards. I'm a residential self-hauler, and I
want to think a conscientious recycler. From what I heard this evening apparaently
the information meetings, that I missed a year and nine months ago, that laid the
groundwork for this proposal, and in view of the fact that currently based on those
meetings, it's already been decided that a fee for bags is the way to go. Quite
candidly, I'm not quite sure why we're here tonight, but I came, and I'm going
to have to stay anyway. First, I'm in favor of including this in the basic tax
structure. I'm concerned with the fact that we're creating potentially a
monopoly, which will be not be accountable as part of the annual budget effectively.
All costs related to this will be passed in the form of escalating fees. I'm afraid
Pg 21 - LL Garbage, F ~bish & Refuse
that that program is going to lend itself to neglect, in the sense of why worry
al~out any major negotiations, whatever it costs we'll pass it on, and potentially
even to act of abuse, even costs into the refuse removal program, where it can
be passed on in these fees, which much like our sales tax get lost to the individual
resident of the town. I feel that the town has an obligation to provide certain
basic, simple services, and in my mind the disposal of garbage, which is something
that the individual can not handle is an obligation, that the town should address
directly. In addition to the problems that were pointed out already this evening,
and I realize I'm tramping over ground that's pretty well flattened, I think in
addition to the dumpster problem, and the roadside dumping, with this fee for
bags we're going to create do it yourself home landfills, which will be virtually
impossible to police without spy satelites. Apparently our landfill has not been
an environmental hazard based on the hydro studies. The other problem is not
just commercial dumpsters, and rufuse facilities, but I would suggest that the
municipalities are going to have the same problem, people dumping their garbage
in Park District barrels, Town facilities~ and so forth.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: That exists already. Mr. Richards, Councilwoman Hussie
would like to respond to a couple of your questions. I just wanted to reiterate
that this public hearing is to hear the people. This law is not cast in stone. This
law is the sea of the people of Southold Town. After a year and nine months after
the first public information hearings, a number of which were generated, which
there was a number of responses, which the Task Force relayed to the Town Board,
as well as the Town Board being in participation. The question such as you would
rather see it in taxation. Those question were posed a year and nine months ago.
The people were polled at the meeting, and I would roughly say there was, I don't
know, maybe 90 or 100 people at each of those meetings, somewhere in there,
overwhelmin§ly was that they wanted to pay for what they produced. They felt
that if they produced a little, they would pay a little. It by the reduction was
the incentative, and the recycling, obviously, those two factors. By the bag study
that came out of the Task Force a number of years ago, that was what was behind
it. I think that has been reiterated, as you said ground has flattened already
also. But, this Town Board has not made a determination yet. The public informa-
tion hearings were just that, public information. They would present what was
on the table. The questions were presented to the public. Responses were solicited.
They were then passed on. Here we are now, a year and nine months later ready
implement the recommendations of the Task Force, which has been working on solid
waste for a lot of years, many, many issues, many alternatives, and the question
before us tonight, before you tonight, is, is this the way you'd like to go? Do
you feel that this is the most cost effective way? Is this the most prudent way
to deal with it, those who product will pay, or should it all be taken out of a
service, which some people feel is the responsibility of the Township, and pay
for in real property tax? That had been asked. That is what this is designed
for tonight, to solicit, to hear whether the same opinions still hold true, whether
there's been a change, or a mood swing in reference to that?
AL RICHARDS: You might poll the group tonight.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: We certainly could do that afterwards, Mr. Richards, if
the Board would like it certainly could find that out. Absolutely. Councilwoman
Hussie?
Pg 22 - LL Garbage, i ~bish & Refuse
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: I don't really know, that I can say anything else, Mr.
Richards, except that with watchdogs like you, I'm sure a..
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Richards. All the way in the back.
JOE RISTUCClA: Just a few questions, that I have. My name is Joe Ristuccia.
I'm representing myself, although I am Chairman of the TaxPac group in this
community. I'd like to just take a point of seriousness here, because we do have
a serious problem. I recognize that, and I don't want to make this political. We
have to solve this problem of garbage, because we haven't solved it up till now.
I'd like to ask this question, if I may? How many people have been charged with
dumping illegally in the town? Can you cite me specific cases. I know I've seen
signs around here, where if you dump illegally it's going to cost $1,000.00. Have
cases come here before Judge Tedeschi, and Judge Price?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I can address that to the Assistant Town Attorney.
ASSISTANT TOWN ATTORNEY KIERNAN: Joe, I would say in my four years as
Assistant Town Attorney, I have processed about a half of dozen cases of illegal
dumping. There are two, I think, currently pending before this Court. One is
before Judge Price. I don't think I've had any before Judge Edwards at all. More
recently the Town Board amended the Code to put in mandatory minimum fees of
$1,000.00 for illegal dumping. Perhaps that has dissuaded from people, who might
have thought to do otherwise, but in four years I've only had occassion to procecute
four. As far as I know there were no other summons issued. I don't know if warn-
ings given for illegal dumping, but none have come to me.
JOE RISTUCCIA: I'm glad to hear that at least there have been some cases. I'm
a little disappointed that there weren't more, because I'm sure there's a lot more
dumping going on than meets the eye. I have seen a lot of it myself, because I've
driven, and some S.O.B. dropped a bag someplace, and I don't know if it fell off
of his pickup truck, or it was deliberately thrown, but I don't like it. Nobody
likes it. I've called up Ray Jacobs, and say, hey, send somebody out there, and
clean up that mess. Alice, I don't agree with you. We don't have enough cops
around here, and I don't think we have enough people awake at night to stop that
kind of situation. I think 99% of the people in Southold are good people. Okay?
We're lucky. If we were someplace else this would be entirely different kind of
a problem. It's still going to be exacerbated when we start talking about the
methodoligy of how we're going to handle garbage. In other words, if we start
charging by the bag, or by the pound, or whatever the case might be, and by
the way, I happen to be in favor of that person, because it has a built in
incentive for us to do better recycling, and start doing some of the good things
that we aren't doing right now. I'm sure that there are some people in this com-
munity who live it to the letter of the law, but I know that most people at one
time or another, they're in a hurry, throw in the bag, and that has to stop, and
I think the one thing that's going to be a motivative to stop that kind of stuff,
is when it's going to cost you, so that if you do it on a service basis, you're still
going to have that same, I guess, sin of ommission. Okay? What I'd like to see
is, that we look at this problem on a longer term basis. In other words, if we're
going to make a decision, should we pay by the bag, or should we pay by pound,
whatever the case might be? I say that that is a short term solution. I'd like to
see something of a more long term plan here. In other words, what's going to
happen in the long term? I spoke to one of the Council members here, I won't
Pg 23 - LL Garbage, . obish & Refuse
identify him, more than four years ago, when I was working on the Task Force
with Alice, and I said to that person, if we ship or truck it's no good, and while
we're in a crunch right now, with shipping by truck I think we'd better start
thinking about a long term solution, whether it's you or your successor, because
shipping by truck is the most expensive way, whether it's Huntington, Long Island,
or Huntington, West Virginia. It's going to cost us a lot of money. Therefore
is you're talking about my answer personally of how I feel about this, I would want
to pay on a per bag basis. On the other hand, you'd better start doing your
homework, either you or your successors, because shipping garbage in the
next year, and the year after that, and so on, and so forth, is too expensive.
I think we've got to find a better long term solution. It's just the same as renting
property,or renting a house, or an apartment. When you rent it cost you more
money, than when you're getting your value for, and the same is true here when
you ship garbage. We've got to get rid of this garbage ourselves. I have to say
one more thing. I haven't heard the local Town Board, or the Task Force address
this. By Jesus, everytime I go to the Post Office I get so much God damn junk
mail, I don't know what to do with it, and the biggest sinner is Newsday. Every
week I receive..I by the way subscribe to Newsday. The only reason I subscribe
to Newsday is so I can keep up with what is going on around Long Island, otherwise
I wouldn't buy the paper. But since I subscribe to that paper I get every insert
for the seven days I subcribe to it. Why do I get that in my mail in addition to
what I get on Sundays? What have you done to stop that? What have you done
to stop some of the local mailings, that I really don't want in my mailbox? I've
taken efforts to get rid of some of the catalogs, that I don't want. I call them
up on the 800 number, and say, stop sending the thing, but some of these other
things I think we can cut the waste stream. As a matter of fact, Alice, you know
that the Section 8, and the DEC regulations better than I do, and item number
4 is to cut the waste stream. My wife and I talked about this thing just the other
day, and you know what we're going to do? We're going to do some of the good
things we should be doing. We're going to get a cloth bag, and we're going to
carry out groceries home in that cloth bag. We don't want to bring back, and
bring some of this junk back, and have it sent out where I'm going to have to
pay for it, whether I have to pay for it on a per bag basis, or whether we do
it on a service basis. Start thinking about it. Thank you.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Just one thing, Joe, I propose mail, that is something
that you have deal with the Post Office. We can not possibly tell the Post Office
what to do.
JOE RISTUCCIA: You're the Town Board. You can tell Newsday.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: I don't think we can tell Newsday. You can tell Newsday.
JOE RISTUCClA: Alice, we can start to embarrass them. Okay?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes, Joe, but I think you should lead the fight.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you, Joe. Okay, this gentleman.
Pg 24 - LL Garbage, ~ ~bish & Refuse
JOE MELI-ENDER: I just have a few things. A lot of things have been said already.
My name is Joe Mellender from Mattituck, and I think one of the biggest problems
that we have right now, and we'll have in the future is trying to resolve this
sanitation problem, and we talked about it quite a bit before. Some of the towns,
even Riverhead, have volunteered to help out. They do it on their own time, and
pick up stuff along the streets, and also, will report any kind of incident. So,
how about a corp of sanitation deputies, or sanitation volunteers, that might be
willing? There's plenty of people in this town that would volunteer at no cost to
the town.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Mr. Mellender, wait one minute, sir. Councilwoman Hussie?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Mr. Mellender, I think the thing that you're referring
to is the beautiful roads, but usually it is businesses that sponsor a certain section
of the roads.
JOE MELLENDER: I'm talking about our own little town here.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes, but when you were referring to Riverhead. I
see a guy going out in a truck.
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes, different bussinesses dedicate themselves to a mile
of road, and they police a mile or two miles.
JOE MELLENDER: These are volunteer people?
COUNCILWOMAN HUSSIE: Yes, but it's usually done through the business com-
munity.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you. Anybody else at this time like to address
this Board?
ANN LOWRY: My name is Ann Lowry. I represent the North Fork Environmental
Council. Everybody has said a lot of what I was going to say, but I would like
to just underline one thing, and that is reducing the waste stream, and I think
that the Town could take more leadership in doing a variety of different kinds
of things. I think all the voluntary recycling should be mandatory. I'm sure that's
been thought of. I think that there should more inspiration of various other kinds
of things, that can be recycled. I think that you could even take leadership
perhaps about what Joe was talking about taking bags to the grocery stores, and
I try. I have three bags. I try to remember them, and not go in the store, and
leave them in my car. If I do I collect paper bags, that have already been in
use. It's unbelievable. I think that the Town could take some leadership in pushing
that kind of thing. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Mrs. Lowry, just for a point of information, as you know
two years ago, the Town did enact the law. It is mandatory recycling in the town
for resident, and commercial. That has been a law for a number of years.
ANN LOWRY: But not all the things, as I understand it.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: What I'm saying is, we did take the initiative, and get
serious about it, and make it a law. Also, Mrs. Scoggin in the back brought
this to the Town Board, I think to the Task Force a number of years ago about
shopping with a cloth bag, such as Europe does. Many people thought it was a
Pg 25 - LL Garbage, I~ bish & Refuse
great idea. Mrs. Scoggin started selling those bags, as a matter of fact. I don't
mean to give you a plug Shelly, but she started selling those L)ags, and that was
also brought to the attention of the people of the town, that this was the way to
do volume reduction as far as reducing the number of bags, plastic, so on that
comes out of the grocery stores.
ANN LOWRY: I think that's great. I think there's something about coming from
the Town Board, that adds a little.
COUNCILMAN PENNY: Ann, in regard to the paper bags, I found a beautiful avenue
to get rid of the paper bags, that my wife brings home from the grocery store.
We keep them clean. I fold them up. I take them to the lumberyard, and we reuse
them, and I think you will find if you contact your local businesses, and if you
did have clean bags to get rid of, they wouldn't have to wind up in the waste
stream at all.
ANN LOWRY: I have them all neatly folded.
COUNCILMAN PENNY: I'm sure that any business in town. I'll be happy to take
them as long as they're clean, because businesses pay good money for those bags,
so one way to recycle them is to contact the businesspeople in your community,
and just bring them to them. Another thing is with these wire hangers, that come
from the cleaners. If you take them back to the cleaners, and just give them back
to the cleaner, he'll take them back as long as (tape change) the home composting,
and figuring out what you're going to do to reduce your own waste stream is what
this by the bag is all about. That was the incentive for it, and the meetings that
we had close to two years ago people addressed just that, and it's unfortunate
that at the time it was separated as a public hearing from a public information
meeting, because maybe if it is necessary we could have the Task Force, and meet
with the public again, and make suggestions to the public, as they did two years
ago, on how they can handle their own personal waste stream a little bit better.
It was very informative meeting two years ago, and maybe the time is right now
to have another one of them.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you. Is there anybody else?
DE[3BIE KARP: My name is Debbie Karp. I just wanted to say something about
the post office waste. There are bins in the post office, and they are filled to
overflowing nine-tenths of the time. I would think that, I don't know if you
anybody that can go down there and collect, and also, in Southold they collect
batteries, and under the main table there are two cartons, and batteries are all
over the floor. Who collects them? What is done with them? I mean this is
people are being conscientious about bringing in their batteries, but they remain
there, and I think whoever would collect those could collect the waste that is put
in your boxes all the time, and something should be done about that.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Mrs. Karp, Jim Bunchuck, who is the landfill manager,
would like to address one of the issues that you brought up.
JIM BUNCHUCK: As far as the batteries go, we did collect them today. If you
go down there tomorrow you'll see they have been collected today. That's the
only pickup we do sponsored by the landfill going around anywhere in the com-
munity to pick anything up is the batteries, and I think that was started as a
program associated with the STOP Program several years ago, and it was deemed
that it wasn't a tremendous drain on our manpower to do that. Since that time
Pg 26 - LL Garbage, ~bish & Refuse
more people have signed on, so they go to every hamlet from Orient to Laurel,
and stop at whatever establishment has the bins. We don't get on a consistent
schedule at times. Sometime we're good about going every two or three weeks,
before they overflow. This time I did understand we brought back an entire 55
gallon drum of batteries, so there were quite a few out there. The ultimate
disposition of them, they go as part of the STOP Program to a hazardous waste
landfill, and that's what happens to them.
DEBBIE KARP: I'm glad they're gone. This morning they were there.
JIM BUNCHUCK: They went out this afternoon. What we try to do is make sure
we're on like a bi-weekly, or every third week schedule.
DEBBIE KARP: Where is that hazardous waste landfill?
JIM BUNCHUCK: I'm not sure. It's either in..there's a couple in western New
York. Most of them, I believe, are actually down in the southwest. This isn't
the subject of this meeting, but the material goes to different facilities around the
country that can accept it.
DEBI31E KARP: I, also, wish something could done about these circulars, that
are thrown into the bins in the post office. Maybe somebody could pick them up
for recycling or something.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you, Mrs. Karp. Anybody else? Mr. Mellender?
JOE MELLENDER: One other thing I'd like to say. I think we have a great
recylcing program in Southold, except it should be expanded. I think we should
have a big drive on right now, so that everybody would start to do it thoroughly.
Get into the schools, get into the libraries, demostrate in front of the A & P, and
the others, and really start to get this thing going very, very big. It's laying
Iow. It's not happening right now. You go to the dump today, and you watch
what people are throwing away unfortunately, and we're all guilty in some way.
But let's get the recycling program started, and we can do it. I know it.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Thank you Mr. Mellender. Is there anyone else at this
time, that would like to speak?
EDNA BOLLEN: My name is Edna Bollen. I have a question, what does Huntington
and Smithtown do with their solid waste?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: They have a waste to energy facility, which is about two
and a half, three years old. That's where they take their solid waste.
EDNA BOLLEN: Do they have any residue left over? What do they do with that?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I have no idea. They have landfills, that are designed
to accept that, as far as I know.
EDNA BOLLEN: I see. Has Southold ever considered having our own landfill like
that? Is it very expensive? I have no idea.
Pg 27 - LL Garbage, i- bish & Refuse
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: A long time ago, the Town Boards of the past polled the
community to see what direction they wanted to go in, incineration, waste to energy
facilities were the last option that anybody wanted to pursue, or even feel as a
viable alternative.
EDNA BOLLEN: l-et me ask you this then. If we use the bag system say on a
short term period, would you consider going to something like that, perhaps might
be more financially to our advantage?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I think what happened, again, years ago, this was all
researched, it was found to be cost prohibitive. The Towns of Smithtown, and
Huntington spent about $260,000,000.00 for their waste energy facility. That's a
thousand ton a day facility up there. They generate $9,000,000.00 a year in
electricity which they sell back to LII-CO.
EDNA BOLLEN: That's I think very viable.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: It helps cut their cost, obviously, that's part of their cost
reduction is to sell electrily back, yes.
EDNA BOLLEN: You don't think that would help us?
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: I don't think that would ever be an option here, because
of the cost involved, and it certainly would not be one that would be cost effective
by any means.
EDNA BOLLEN: Thank you.
SUPERVISOR HARRIS: Is there anybody else at this time? There's a good sug-
gestion that Councilman Penny just made. Would you like it part of the public
hearing to have a poll, as far as how you would like to dispose, whether it's by
the bag, or pay for it? Unfortunately a lot of people have left. It's by the bag
versus by taxes, as a service as Mr. Richards stated. Can I see a show of hands
for by the bag, please? Can I see a show of hands as part of your taxes? This
is almost indentical to the two information hearings, that were held about a year
and nine months ago, as was stated. The number of people in the audience that
wanted by the bag was overwhelming compared to those who would want it as a
service by their taxes. Thank you for that informal poll. Thank you for your
participation, declare this public hearing closed.
Southold Town Clerk
LEGAL NOTICE
NOTICE OF
PUBLIC HEARING
ON LOCAL LAW
PUBLIC NOTICE IS
HEREBY GIVEN that there
has been presented to the
Town Board of the Town of
Southold, Suffolk County,
New York, on the 10th day of
August, 1993, a Local Law en-
titled, "A Local Law in Rela-
tion to Garbage, Rubbish, and
NOTICE IS FURTHER
GIVEN that the Town Board
of the Town of Southdid will
hold a public he, ring on the
aforesaid Local Law at the
Southold Town Hall, Main
Road, Southold, New .York,
on the 24th day of August,
1993, at 8.'02 P.M., at which
time all interested persons will
be heard.
This proposed "Local Law
in Relation to Garbage, Rub-
bish and Refuse" reads as
follows:
BE IT ENACTED by the
Town Board of the Town of
Southold as follows:
I. Chapter 48 (Garbage,
Rubbish and Refuse) is hereby
amended to read as follows:
1. Section 48-1 (Definitions)
is hereby amended to read as
follows:
REFUSE-- [Any human,
animal or vegetable refuse, of-
fal, swill, cesspool and/or sep-
tic waste, sewage, garbage,
paper, ashes, junk trash, rub-
bish, waste or whatever
material composed, discarded
machinery or parts thereof,
discarded vehicles or parts and
an unlicensed motor vehicle
parked, stored or standing
outside an enclosed building
in an inoperati~ condition for
more than thirty (30) days.
Refuse shall have the meaning
as "Nonrecyclable waste."
"Refuse" shall not include
cans, glass, plastics or
newspaper, as further defined
herein.
2. 48-1 (Definitions) is hereby
amended by adding thereto
the following new definitions:
ILLEGAL DUMPING --
The deposit by any person of
garbage, rubbish, refuse or
waste in any public place
within the Town of Southold,
including its inland waters,
other than in containers
designated for that purpose.
NONR EC YCLA BL E
WASTE -- The end product
&solid waste remaining after
the extraction of recyclable
materials, hazardous waste,
construction and demolition
debris and landclearing debris.
"Nonrecyclable waste" results
primarily from the handling,
preparation and storage of
food and includes but is not
limited to putrescible solid
waste such as animal~ and
vegetable waste.
3. 48-2 (Dumping pro-
hibited generally) is hereby
amended by adding a new
subsection (C)to read as
follows:
C. Nonrecyclable waste and
Town garbage bags.
1. Nonrecyclable waste shall
be deposited only at
designated areas within the
Town disposal area.
2. Town garbage bags shall
be available at designated
areas in the Town.
3. The size and design Of the
Town garbage bag shall be
determined by resolutio~t of
the Town Board.
4. The fee for each si:~e of
the Town garbage bag shall be
determined by resolution of
the Town Board.
5. No person shalL'
(a) Duplicate or imitate a
Town garbage bag.
(b) Give, sell or issue in any
manner a duplicated or~ im-
itated Town garbage bag,
4. 48-3.A.(1) (Residential Self-
haulers and commercial self-
haulers) is herel~y amended by
adding a new subsection (f) to
read as follows:
09 Nonrecyclable waste.
1. Residential self-haulers-
nonrecyclable waste generated
by residential se~f-haulers z~all
be disposed of only in a lbwn
garbage bag as defined herein
and deposited only at
designated areas with ithe
Town disposal area. ]
2. Commercial self-haulers-
nonrecyclable wast~ generated
by commercial self-haulers
may be either:
{a) Disposed of in a Town
garbage bag and deposited at
designated areas with the
Town disposal area; or
(b) disposed of at the
designated areas within the
Town disposal area upon
paying the appropriate charge
as set by Town Board resolu-
tion for the weight of
nonrecyclable waste deposited.
5. 48-3.A.(2) (Private
residential refuse
haulers/carters) is hereby
amended by adding a new
subsection (3) to read as
follows:
(ej Nonrecyclable waste.
(1) The owners or occupants
of all residences within the
Town who utilize collection
services provided by persons
licensed to collect refuse pur-
suant to the provisions of this
chapter shall place
nonrecyclable waste in Town
garbage bags for collection on
such day or days as the
licensee serving such residents
shall designate.
(2) It shall be unlawful for
any person to place out for
collection any nonrecyclable
waste which is not in a Town
garbage bag. It shall be
unlawful for any person to
collect nonrecyclable waste
from a residence which is not
in a Town garbage bag.
(3) Nonrecyclable waste in
Town garbage bags collection
by private residential refuse
haulers/Carters and
transported to the landfill~col-
lection center shall be
deposited only in areas
designated by appropriate
landfill personnel.
II. This Local Law shall
take effect upon its filing with
the Secretary of State.
*[Brackets represent
deletion(s)]
**Italic represents
addition(s).
Copies of this Local Law
are available in the Office of
the Town Clerk to any in-
terested persons during
business hours.
Dated: August 10, 1993
JUDITH T. TERRY
SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK
1X-8/19/93(5)
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK
STATEOF NEW YORK
Patricia Wood,' being duly sworn, says that she is the
£ditor, o( THE LONG ISLAND TRAVELER-WATCHMAN,
a public newspaper printed at Southold, in Suffolk County;
an~ that the notice of which the annexed is a printed copy,
has been published in said I_ong Island "ravelet-Watchmau
su(cess[vely,commencin~on the
..............
Notary Public
BARBAR^ A. SOHNEIDER
NOTARY PUBLIC. State of New York
No 4806~346
Qualified in Su[[olk County
Commission Expires