HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-08/07/2014 Hearing 1
p 1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEAL
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
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3 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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7 Southold Town Hall
Southold, New York
8
9 August 7 , 2014
9 : 36 A. M .
10
11
12 Board Members Present :
x , 13 LESLIE KANES WEISMAN - Chairperson/Member
14 ERIC DANTES - Member
15 GERARD GOEHRINGER - Member (Excused)
16 GEORGE HORNING - Member (Left at 2 : 15 p .m. )
17 KENNETH SCHNEIDER - Member
18
19 VICKI TOTH - Secretary
20 STEPHEN KIELY - Assistant Town Attorney
21
22
23 Jessica DiLallo
Court Reporter
24 P . O . Box 984
Holbrook, New York 11741
25 ( 631 ) -338-1409
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• 1 INDEX TO HEARINGS
2
3 Hearing Page
4 Karol Filipowski, #6748SE 3-9
5 Michael Ranson, #6753 9-12
6 Thomas and Kathleen Burke, #6763 12-19
7 Walter Belancic, #6769 19-25
8 Andrew Keating & Colleen Sharp, #6777 25-34
9 North Fork Investors , LLC, #6775 35-38
10 Spencer Drayton, #6772 38-44
11 Showalter Farms , LLC, #6778 44-103
12 Kimogenor Point, Inc . , (Brennan) #6771 103-134
. 13 Windsong Cove, LLC, #6776 134-144
14 Alexander Kofinas, As Trustee, #6774 145-164
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16
17
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19
20
21
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25
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 3
• 1 HEARING #67485E - KAROL FILIPOWSKI
2 (Whereupon, the recording began in
3 the middle of testimony given by
4 Mr . Filipowski . )
5 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : And we moved the
6 building to the other side actually .
7 From the east side to the west side .
8 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Why did you move
9 it to the other side?
10 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : Because that is
11 what the surveyor recommended. He said
12 that it would be better like that .
13 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Do you know why he
14 recommended it? Do you think the
15 proximity of those two buildings so
16 close together might be an issue? Looks
17 like it is 3 feet off the property
18 line . It ' s like 7 feet between the
19 buildings . Do you think it ' s too close?
20 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : I don ' t think so .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well, it ' s not
22 so much a matter of opinion rather than
23 of code . The problem is, you have a
24 really narrow lot and we all know that .
25 What is the minimum width of this
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 4
• 1 building that you could put on this
2 site that you could operate your
3 business?
4 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : This is really
5 tight already. 40 feet would give me
6 enough room. 34 feet, that is not a
7 lot of room. I just wanted to have a
8 little room in the front and the back .
9 MEMBER HORNING : Sir, you ' re
10 anticipating that people are going to
11 make a left-hand turn going west or --
12 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : Right side .
• 13 MEMBER HORNING : Did you apply to the
14 New York State?
15 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : No . Not yet .
16 MEMBER HORNING : And the State will
17 determine what you could do?
18 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : I think so .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We don ' t really
20 know, until Site Plan Review is done,
21 to find out what the proper turning
22 radius is . You know, exactly where the
23 parking is going to go and so on . What
24 we don ' t want to do is grant setbacks
25 and then find that the Planning Board
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 5
1 has a problem with it . In order to make
2 the Site Plan work, they would need
3 something else . So we are going to
4 suspend that until such time . You won ' t
5 have to reapply. It will just be
6 adjourned to another date until we have
7 that information . What really is before
8 us this morning is the use itself for
9 the context of Special Exception
10 permits . And the requirements for that
11 are different then for variance relief .
12 You know, it has to do primarily with
13 adjacent property owners . Will it have
14 an impact on health, safety and welfare
15 of anyone? Is it compatible with the
16 surroundings of the character of the
17 neighborhood and the surrounding
18 community?
19 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : To the left, it
20 used to be a commercial building .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Parking is part
22 of our review . How many trucks do you
23 have?
24 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : I have three
• 25 trucks .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 6
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have four
2 spaces behind . Looks like you have
3 eleven spaces . Well, I think it ' s not
4 -- I don ' t want to make it apples and
5 oranges but I don ' t think it ' s
6 necessary for us to look too carefully
7 at the setbacks here . This is to be
8 sent to the Planning Board. Have you
9 done that yet? Have you sent them the
10 new one?
11 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : Not yet .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do that as soon
13 as you possibly can . They can then
14 provide additional comments to us . We
15 were going to ask them to comment on
16 both of these applications prior to
17 making a decision . So I think what we
18 want to do, unless the Board has any
19 comments about the use, the intensity
20 of the use would probably be done
21 better by the Planning Board then us .
22 It is a permitted use . They will
23 condition the space on the agricultural
24 side . It will fall within their
• 25 jurisdiction . So what I would like you
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 7
• 1 to do is submit this to the Planning .
2 And I am going to suggest that we
3 adjourn this to the Special Meeting to
4 get Planning Board comments . And then
5 if we have everything, we can close .
6 And if we don ' t , we can carry it over
7 to the next month . Okay. Is that all
8 right with the Board?
9 MEMBER DANTES : Yes .
10 MEMBER HORNING: Yes .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How many trucks
12 will you have inside and how many
• 13 outside?
14 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : I would say maybe
15 nine . Three inside .
16 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Do they leave the
17 cars parked there or do they take the
18 trucks home?
19 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : They usually take
20 the trucks home .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So there really
22 isn ' t much parking going on that site .
23 Is the Planning Board aware of that?
24 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : Yes .
25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We are trying
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 8
• 1 to determine the intensity of the
2 operation with the surrounding
3 community . This looks like a large
4 intensity when you have twelve parking
5 spaces and one large building on a
6 survey and then you are describing a
7 very large business operation .
8 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : We just want to
9 finish the process .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We are
11 reviewing these two applications
12 simultaneously because they ' re so much
• 13 entwined. But while we get started,
14 your original lot coverage is 25% . The
15 survey does not show the lot coverage .
16 Although with our calculations it is
17 certainly reduced from the 25% . I think
18 it would be important for the surveyor
19 to note the lot coverage, both for us
20 and the Planning Board . We have to
21 have that confirmed by the surveyor .
22 MR. FLIPKOWSKI : Okay.
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there
24 anything else from the Board?
• 25 (No Response . )
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 9
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone
2 else in the audience that would like to
3 address this application?
4 (No Response . )
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Hearing no
6 further comments or questions, I will
7 make a motion to adjourn this
8 application to the Special Meeting on
9 August 21st .
10 Is there a second?
11 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
13 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
14 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
15 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
17 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
19 HEARING #6753 - MICHAEL RANSON
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
21 meeting before the Board is for Michael
22 Ranson, #6753 . This meeting was
23 adjourned from July 10th . So we do not
24 need to read the legal notice into the
• 25 record.
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 10
• 1 MR. GOGGINS : Good morning, William
2 Goggins , 13325 Main Road, Mattituck,
3 New York for the applicant . Last time
4 we were here, we had the issue of the
5 gazebo of whether or not it was
6 preexisting nonconforming use . So we
7 submitted that to the Town . They are
8 still looking at that . There has not
9 been a determination yet from what I
10 understand. So I would request an
11 adjournment to the September date .
12 Hopefully this issue will be taken care
• 13 of .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So Building is
15 still in the process --
16 MR. GOGGINS : Yes .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. Well,
18 certainly that was the intent . So I
19 have no problem with that ; however,
20 September is really tied up . Really
21 booked. So I am afraid that we are
22 going to have to adjourn to October .
23 MR. GOGGINS : Okay .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So at the
• 25 request of the attorney -- let ' s see if
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 11
• 1 there is anyone in the audience that
2 wishes to address the application?
3 (No Response . )
4 MEMBER HORNING: I have a question .
5 It says from last time we were going to
6 get a survey . Have we gotten that yet?
7 MR . GOGGINS : My memory was that we
8 calculated it based on the scale .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We had
10 discussed initially about getting a new
11 survey .
12 MR. GOGGINS : ( In Audible) . I also
13 went there and measured it and
14 confirmed .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is what my
16 notes say from last time . The gazebo
17 is set back farther than that .
18 MEMBER HORNING : So we are not
19 expecting a new survey?
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don ' t think
21 so .
22 MEMBER HORNING : Is there a CO for
23 the shed?
24 MR. GOGGINS : There is no CO for
• 25 this shed .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 12
• 1 MEMBER HORNING : And did you submit
2 any information about the neighborhood
3 and nonconforming sheds?
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : He submitted
5 information . I can forward it to you .
6 Let ' s just adjourn to October and
7 see what the Building Department has to
8 say. I am going to make a motion to
9 adjourn to October 2nd at 9 : 45 .
10 MR. GOGGINS : Thank you .
11 MEMBER DANTES : Second.
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
• 13 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
14 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
15 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
17 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
18 ************** **** * * ****** ******
19 HEARING #6763 - THOMAS & KATHLEEN
20 BURKE
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. The next
22 application before the Board is for
23 Thomas and Kathleen Burke, #6763 . This
24 was adjourned from the July 10th
• 25 meeting . The applicant was unavailable
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 13
• 1 and had requested an adjournment until
2 today. You are aware, because it was
3 noticed, there was a neighbor that came
4 in and we took some testimony from the
5 neighbor . You certainly have every
6 opportunity to respond to anything that
7 you wish to, with whatever .
8 MS . BURKE : I don ' t have anything to
9 respond. If you have questions .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. Fine .
11 Would you please state your name for
12 the record, we ' re recording .
13 MS . BURKE : My name is Kathleen
14 Burke and we live at 1570 Bray Avenue,
15 Laurel New York. This is for our
16 accessory apartment .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So we ' re
18 looking at an "as-built" one bedroom
19 accessory apartment in an accessory
20 garage, 616 square feet . That was
21 confirmed by the Building Department .
22 You are the owners of the subject
23 property?
24 MS . BURKE : That is correct .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And you live ' in
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 14
• 1 the principal dwelling; is that
2 correct?
3 MS . BURKE : That is correct .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And you live
5 there year round?
6 MS . BURKE : Yes , we do .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And who is
8 renting the apartment?
9 MS . BURKE : My cousin Carol at the
10 moment .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How long is the
12 lease that you have?
13 MS . BURKE : Until a year . So until
14 August 31st of this year .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And does she
16 contend to continue living there?
17 MS . BURKE : To the best of my
18 knowledge, yeah . I can check that out
19 with her . We haven ' t been notified one
20 way or the other . We have to talk about
21 that .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You are aware
23 that the law only allows occupancy by
24 -- in an accessory apartment in an
• 25 accessory structure by either a
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 15
• 1 relative --
2 MS . BURKE : Yes .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Or someone that
4 is eligible off the Affordable Housing
5 Registry? And in the event that your
6 cousin does not want to stay there, you
7 would go through the Special Projects
8 Coordinator and find out who is on the
9 registry, unless you know someone who
10 might qualify.
11 MS . BURKE : Right .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Someone who is
• 13 working according to the standards that
14 the income level is set . It has to be
15 either a relative or someone who is on
16 that registry . I certainly have visited
17 the property, as you know . The parking
18 on site is fine as proposed .
19 Is there anything that the Board
20 would like to ask?
21 MEMBER HORNING : I have no questions .
22 MEMBER DANTES : No questions .
23 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I have no
24 questions .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think we
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 16
• 1 covered the requirements .
2 MS . BURKE : *You know, we bought the
3 house and the garage, and the plumbing
4 was already in the garage .
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And then you
6 purchased the other lot?
7 MS . BURKE : We bought them together .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Oh, you bought
9 them together . They probably merged .
10 MS . BURKE : Yes . You informed me .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thought so .
12 They would have been merged by force of
• 13 law . Okay. Is there anyone in the
14 audience who would like to address this
15 application? State your name for the
16 record .
17 MR. IRRGANG : Robert Irrgang .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Can you spell
19 the last name, please .
20 MR . IRRGANG : I-R-R-G-A-N-G .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you . And
22 what would you like us to know?
23 MR. IRRGANG : I just want to restate
24 again, that I am 100% against it for
• 25 the obvious reasons that can ' t be
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 17
• 1 corrected no matter what . This happened
2 yesterday. I can give you a picture .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can come up
4 here .
5 MR. IRRGANG : ( In Audible . ) I have so
6 many pictures . They ' re about five feet
7 over the property line . And the only
8 other thing that I would like to say
9 is , when you guys actually vote on
10 this , I would like to be there . You
11 know, whether you approve this or don ' t
12 approve this .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The earliest we
14 would be able to make a decision on
15 this would be two weeks from today. We
16 meet in the evening . It starts at
17 5 : 00 p .m. That is when we start
18 deliberating . We don ' t take any
19 testimony there . You can ' t make any
20 comments . Anyone is welcome to sit in
21 during deliberations . Any of you . That
22 is when it ' s scheduled for . You can
23 also call the office the next day and
24 find out . It can be mailed to you or
• 25 even picked up .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 18
• 1 MR. IRRGANG: Do I call or show up
2 in two weeks?
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Not here . Over
4 at the Annex . Right on the left to the
5 Building Department . Would you like to
6 say anything?
7 MEMBER DANTES : -- maintenance plan?
8 MR. BURKE : ( In Audible . )
9 MR. IRRGANG: It ' s the busiest
10 dead-end in Mattituck.
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone
12 else in the audience who would like to
• 13 address this application?
14 (No Response . )
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else
16 from the Board?
17 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Hearing no
19 further questions or comments, I am
20 going to make a motion to close this
21 hearing and reserve decision to a later
22 date .
23 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second.
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
• 25 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 19
• 1 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
2 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
4 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
5 ************************************ *
6 HEARING #6769 - WALTER BELANCIC
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
8 application before the Board is for
9 Walter Belancic, #6769 . Request for
10 variance from Article III Section
11 280-15 and the Building Inspector ' s
12 May 29, 2014 Notice of Disapproval
• 13 based on an application for building
14 permit for "as-built" accessory shed,
15 at, location other than the code
16 required rear yard, located at : 500
17 Hill Road (Midfarm Road) in Southold.
18 MR. BELANCIC : Good morning .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good morning .
20 State your name for the record.
21 MR. BELANCIC : Walter Belancic .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Hello,
23 Mr . Belancic . We have all inspected
24 your property and realized that your
• 25 property affronts two streets . Both of
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 20
1 the front of the house and the back of
2 the house .
3 MR. BELANCIC : Yes .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you have
5 two front yards . Anything that fronts
6 of a street is considered a front yard.
7 Your shed is very ( In Audible) building
8 permit . It ' s totally obscured by
9 vegetation and it ' s notated in what you
10 are using in your front yard.
11 MR. BELANCIC : Yes .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you happen
13 to know what your setbacks are would be
14 from the property line to approximately
15 where that shed would be?
16 MR. BELANCIC : I believe --
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It looks like a
18 substantial setback .
19 MEMBER HORNING: It says 35 . 6 .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It does .
21 MEMBER HORNING : And then side yard
22 37 . 9 .
23 MR. BELANCIC : Yes .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is all we
25 needed pretty much .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 21
• 1 MR. BELANCIC : So you don ' t want to
2 see my eleven pictures and things?
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can submit
4 them.
5 MR. BELANCIC : No . No . We have been
6 coming out here since the late 60 ' s . I
7 had the old permits .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is fine .
9 MR. BELANCIC : I didn ' t know the
10 process . I didn ' t know it was in my
11 front yard. My neighbor has a pool in
12 her front yard then. I documented all
• 13 that I could.
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : A lot has to do
15 with character of the neighborhood.
16 People are next to you are going to
17 have the same situation as you do . Two
18 front yards . So if you can submit some
19 information that other people have
20 sheds and things like that? That just
21 helps our decision .
22 MR. BELANCIC : A lot of my neighbors
23 are on the creek . I lot of them have
24 their sheds behind their house . I can
• 25 take this with you one by one .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 22
• 1 MEMBER HORNING : Take us through the
2 ones with nonconforming sheds?
3 MR. BELANCIC : Very good. Can I
4 bring this up to you?
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Sure . That ' s
6 fine .
7 MR. BELANCIC : This one might be even
8 clearer .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : These two
10 examples, one is a swimming pool and
11 one is a shed?
12 MR. BELANCIC : Yes . Those are in the
• 13 front yard.
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Both of those
15 are in the front yard?
16 MR. BELANCIC : Yes .
17 MEMBER HORNING: Sir, I am curious,
18 did the Building Department tell you
19 where your rear yard is?
20 MR. BELANCIC : I don ' t think when we
21 had the conversation -- I don ' t think
22 that it came up . This is what I got
23 thus far . Before I did anything, I went
24 to the Building Department . I don ' t
• 25 think in that conversation it was
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 23
• 1 discussed.
2 MEMBER HORNING : It ' s my
3 understanding, they first establish
4 front yards and then rear yards and
5 then side yards .
6 MR. BELANCIC : Generally, I have two
7 front yards and two side yards .
8 MEMBER HORNING: Would the Building
9 Department consider one of those a rear
10 yard?
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Not
12 necessarily.
• 13 MR. BELANCIC : I wish they would
14 have .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Then he would
16 not be before us necessarily. This
17 happened over a lot in East Marion . We
18 had a situation with three front yards .
19 Great . This would be very helpful .
20 That ' s fine . So it ' s safe to say that
21 there are many lots within your
22 neighborhood that have multiple front
23 yards and because of the creek, would
24 require to put a structure landward
• 25 side of the house --
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 24
• 1 MR. BELANCIC : Yes . They ' re visible .
2 There are a few of them that you can ' t
3 see but most of them are visible . My
4 parents have health issues and that is
5 one of the reasons why we put it behind
6 the house .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Upon field
8 inspection, nothing was conforming . No
9 side yard or a front yard.
10 MR. BELANCIC : Yes .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So you do not
12 have an alternative --
13 MR. BELANCIC : Yes .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is
15 feasible .
16 Is there anyone in the audience that
17 would like to address this application?
18 (No Response . )
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else
20 from the Board?
21 (No Response . )
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All right . So I
23 am going to make a motion to close this
24 hearing and reserve decision to a later
• 25 date .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 25
• 1 Is there a second?
2 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second.
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
4 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
5 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
6 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
8 ( See Minutes for Resolution . )
g *************************** ***** *****
10 HEARING #6777 - ANDREW KEATING &
11 COLLEEN SHARP
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
• 13 application before the Board is for
14 Andrew Keating and Colleen Sharp,
15 #6777 . Request for variance from
16 Article III Code Section 280-15F and
17 the Building Inspector ' s June 3 , 2014
18 Notice of Disapproval based on an
19 application for building permit to
20 construct an accessory garage, at ;
21 1 ) less than the code required front
22 yard setback ( for waterfront property)
23 of 35 feet, located at : 700 Ruch Lane ,
24 (adjacent to Arshamomque Pond) in
• 25 Southold.
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 26
is
1 MR . FOKINE : Good morning, and thank
2 you for taking the time to hear his
3 application . My name is Chris Fokine . I
4 am from Shelter Island and Southold.
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. This
6 application is for an accessory garage
7 with a front yard setback of 5 feet .
8 The code requires generally the
9 principal setback of 35 feet on
10 waterfront property . It' s 17 . 92 from
11 the house, and what it is doing, is
12 facing an existing accessory garage
• 13 that was actually only 1 foot from the
14 front yard and side yard . Now you are
15 proposing 5 feet?
16 MR. FOKINE : Correct .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This garage is
18 one car garage?
19 MR . FOKINE : Yes .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is it 25x16 . 4 ?
21 MR. FOKINE : It' s a small car .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It' s unheated?
23 MR. FOKINE : Yes .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Just the
• 25 utility and electric?
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 27
1 MR. FOKINE : Yes .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there
3 anything else that you would like to
4 tell us?
5 MR. FOKINE : Yes . I would like to
6 tell you how it all came about . Andrew
7 is here if you have any questions for
8 him, by the way. And his wife Colleen
9 asked me to renovate their house . They
10 purchased it about two years ago . The
11 house was built probably in the 19201s .
12 It looks like it was probably untouched
13 and I did a nice job with the interior .
14 He emailed me and said, can you please
15 take a look at my garage . I am very
16 concerned on the way that it looks from
17 a structural point of view. So I did. I
18 said, oh my god. This thing is sitting
19 right on a dirt . As you can see from
20 some of the photographs, the ridge
21 lines are weighing down like an old
22 horse . So I suggested that the best
23 thing to do would be to tear it down . I
24 don' t think that it is practical to
25 repair it . I think it is too far gone
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 28
• 1 to repair . So my suggestion was , let' s
2 make it better for everybody. It would
3 be better for me to move this over and
4 excavate it and put a foundation. Right
5 now, I am 1 foot from the property
6 line . It would be impossible to
7 excavate, you know, for a proper
8 footing and a cement wall . I would be
9 on the neighbors property . Also in the
10 future, if you wanted to maintain this
11 property and paint it, you would be
12 standing on the neighbors property. So
13 it just seems that it' s too close . So
14 this is just making it better for the
15 owner and for me as a builder, also for
16 the neighborhood itself . Moving it away
17 from the property and making it more
18 conforming . Do you want some
19 photographs?
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : If you would
21 like, sure .
22 MR. FOKINE : That was subdivided many
23 years ago . Before the regulations that
24 we have today.
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The gas lines
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 29
1 and water heater?
2 MR. FOKINE : Yes . They would be to
3 the left . One suggestion was maybe we
4 should move it more than 5 feet and of
5 course we are open for suggestions . At
6 one point , you do interfere with gas
7 and water lines .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What is the
9 house setback from the street?
10 MR. FOKINE : The house itself is 35
11 feet .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So, you know,
• 13 there is no way you could avoid a
14 variance . Then you would be in a side
15 yard. You submitted documentation and I
16 just want the public record to reflect
17 these documents show the character of
18 the neighborhood. Tell us a little bit
19 about accessory structures .
20 MR. FOKINE : There are many of them.
21 Taking a quick count, there are about
22 660 of those structures don' t conform
23 to houses , accessory buildings or
24 otherwise . Essentially the character
• 25 of that street . A lot of the houses
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 30
• 1 have no basement . This house has no
2 basement . So this is their only
3 storage that they have .
4 MEMBER HORNING: Did you count the
5 number of nonconforming structures?
6 MR. FOKINE : Mr . Keating did.
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : State your name
8 for the record, please .
9 MR. KEATING: My name is Andrew
10 Keating . After I talked to Mr . Horning,
11 yesterday, I counted the house at his
12 suggestion . There is 20 houses on the
• 13 street and that is not counting the two
14 houses that face onto North Road. But
15 the garage is one of those . It' s behind
16 the house . There are four houses that
17 have no garages . So there are 16 houses
18 that have garages and only 6 of those
19 conform. One is set behind the house
20 towards the water . I think Chris
21 submitted a picture of that house . I
22 would say it' s 10 feet from the road.
23 5 of those are built across the street .
24 Across from the principle dwelling .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes . That' s a
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 31
1 little unusual but they have been that
2 way for many years .
3 MR . KEATING: Then the five others
4 are very close to the road. Some
5 others , look almost like they are
6 conforming but they are not .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Mr . Keating,
8 how long do you think that garage has
9 been sitting there?
10 MR. KEATING : I have no idea . It' s
11 hard to say. It was there at the same
12 time I bought the house . There is
• 13 definitely old wood in there . No
14 plywood. It' s quite strange . The roof
15 sways this way and even the other way .
16 MEMBER HORNING : Your fairly estimate
17 is about 50% of the neighborhood has
18 nonconforming --
19 MR. KEATING: Yes . I have actually
20 66% .
21 MEMBER HORNING : Okay. Very good.
22 MR. FOKINE : Also, there is one
23 bedroom facing the street that only has
24 two windows in it . This would greatly
• 25 reduce the visibility of that light
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 32
• 1 into that bedroom if it was moved
2 closer to this area right here .
3 MEMBER HORNING : What is the greatest
4 amount of setback that you think you
5 can achieve?
6 MR. FOKINE : As you go back further
7 to the house, you are closing the
8 space . So you are restricting that
9 space . I would imagine 10 feet away
10 from the street would be the maximum
11 that we could go before we start on
12 restricting on some of the space .
• 13 MEMBER HORNING : If we had a decision
14 that stated 10 foot from the asphalt ,
15 would that be a reasonable amount?
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Visually set
17 back substantially more . The decision
18 can reflect that the fact that there is
19 a grassy area to the asphalt .
20 MEMBER HORNING : Right .
21 MR. KEATING : And I would say that is
22 pretty much what we were going for in
23 our conversation .
24 MEMBER HORNING : And the gas lines
• 25 are to the south of the garage?
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 33
• 1 MR. FOKINE: Yes . Southeastern from
2 the garage .
3 MEMBER HORNING: Do you have some
4 small shrubs on the side of the
5 garage --
6 MR. KEATING: We already removed the
7 shrubs on my side . On the neighbors
8 side, we wouldn ' t touch those .
9 MR. FOKINE: Yes , we wouldn ' t touch
10 those .
11 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Do you have a CO
12 for that garage?
• 13 MR. FOKINE: We have a CO for the
14 whole property. Not particularly the
15 garage itself . The entire property. We
16 just got a CO again for the work that
17 we did on the interior .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It' s listed on
19 the Pre .
20 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: And what is the
21 size of the existing garage?
22 MR. FOKINE : It' s 16x24 .
23 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: So you intend to
24 build the same size?
• 25 MR. FOKINE : Yes .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 34
1 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: The large mature
2 tree, that is not an arborvitae?
3 MR. FOKINE : It is .
4 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay.
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think we have
6 everything that we need for this
7 application . We have an arraignmient
8 coming in shortly and we are going to
9 have to vacate .
10 Is there anyone else in the audience
11 who wishes to address this application?
12 (No Response . )
13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. Hearing
14 no further questions or comments from
15 the Board, I am going to make a motion
16 to close this hearing and reserve
17 decision to a later date .
18 Is there a second?
19 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second.
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
21 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
22 MEMBER HORNING: Aye .
23 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
25 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 35
1 **** ************** *******************
2 HEARING #6775 - NORTH FORK
3 INVESTORS , LLC .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
5 application before the Board is for
6 North Fork Investors, LLC, #6775 .
7 Request for variance from Article IV
8 Section 280-18 (Bulk Schedule) and the
9 Building Inspector ' s June 58 , 20154
10 Notice of Disapproval based on an
11 application for building permit for
12 additions and alterations to existing
13 single family dwelling, at; 1 ) less
14 than the code required single side yard
15 setback of 15 feet, located at : 3475
16 Wunneweta Road, corner of Little
17 Peconic Bay in Cutchogue .
18 Okay. Please state your name for the
19 record .
20 MR. HASDAY : Hi . My name is Craig
21 Hasday.
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Could you spell
23 your last name, please?
24 MR. HASDAY: H-A-S-D-A-Y .
25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 36
is
1 And you are?
2 MR. WELLS : Philip Wells .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: And this is for
4 additions and alternations that will
5 maintain the existing nonconforming
6 singe side yard setback of 12 feet . The
7 code requires a minim of 15 feet . This
8 is a second story addition?
9 MR. HASDAY: It' s actually one and a
10 half story' s .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. Tell us
12 what you would like us to know about
• 13 this application?
14 MR. HASDAY : I think it' s fairly
15 straight forward. The house is in need
16 of significant upgrades . This was built
17 in 1940 and the nonconforming use was
18 preexisting . All the configurations
19 will improve the house . We would
20 complete the second story. There is a
21 second story now, but on a standard
22 roof .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Certainly there
24 are a number of number of properties in
25 the neighborhood that are of the same
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 37
is
1 size and undergone substantial
2 renovations .
3 MR. HASDAY : I would say this is one
4 of the smaller properties on that
5 block.
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric, questions?
7 MEMBER DANTES : No .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ken?
9 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : George?
11 MEMBER HORNING: No questions .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. We
• 13 should just indicate, that we of course
14 have all been there to inspect the
15 site . So we have all seen the
16 neighborhood . We have all seen the
17 property. Observation indicated that
18 there is substantial landscaped
19 screening that creates privacy .
20 MR. HASDAY : That is going to be
21 maintained.
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It would appear
23 there would be minimal impact to the
24 adjacent properties .
• 25 Anyone in the audience who wishes to
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 38
• 1 address this application?
2 (No Response . )
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Hearing no
4 more comments or questions , I am going
5 to make a motion to close this hearing
6 and reserve decision to a later date .
7 MEMBER HORNING : Second.
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
9 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
10 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
11 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
• 13 ( See Minutes for Resolution . )
14 ***************************************
15 HEARING #6772 - SPENCER DRAYTON
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
17 application before the Board is for
18 Spencer Drayton, #6772 . Request for
19 variances from Article XXIII Section
20 280-124 and the Building Inspector ' s
21 June 28 , 2013 , renewed May 23, 2014 ,
22 updated July 9, 2014 Notice of
23 Disapproval based on an application for
24 building permit for additions and
• 25 alterations to an existing single
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 39
• 1 family dwelling, at; 1 ) less than the
2 code required front yard setback of 40
3 feet, 2 ) less than the code required
4 side yard setback of 15 feet, located
5 at : 1120 Jacksons Landing in
6 Mattituck.
7 Good morning . State your name for
8 the record, please .
9 MR. DRAYTON : Good morning . My name
10 is Spencer Drayton, and I am the owner
11 of the property.
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Mr . Drayton .
13 Let the record show that we have
14 received three letters from your
15 neighbors all in support of your
16 application . They are looking at a
17 front yard setback of 32 feet, where
18 the code requires a minimum of 40 . A
19 side yard setback of 12 . 9 feet , the
20 code requires 15 feet . The house is
21 actually set at 40 feet?
22 MR. DRAYTON : Correct .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So any addition
24 to that front yard is going to require
• 25 a variance . This is for an open front
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 40
• 1 yard deck that kind of wraps around the
2 side deck.
3 MR. DRAYTON : It' s going to meet it .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: So this is
5 going to be across the front and 8 foot
6 deep and maintaining the existing
7 nonconforming 12 . 9 feet?
8 MR. DRAYTON : Correct . Not to define
9 it too much, I do have a CO for that
10 side deck.
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Excellent . We
12 will make a note of that .
• 13 MR. DRAYTON : It was part of the
14 existing house when I bought it .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Any questions
16 from the Board?
17 MEMBER HORNING : I have one question .
18 If you have considered any alternative
19 designs?
20 MR. DRAYTON : Well , the primary
21 reason for doing it , I have done
22 expensive renovation n the house itself
23 and the front entrance did not fall
24 directly below the ridge line . So now
• 25 it does . So now the front door does
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 41
• 1 not line up with the front stoop. I
2 understand that a stoop is accepted
3 from the front yard. Aesthetically, it
4 would be nice to have that deck come
5 all the way around the house and serve
6 me as a stoop and just a nice little
7 deck out there . It is primarily for
8 aesthetics then anything else .
9 MEMBER HORNING : So it would be an
10 expanded entry?
11 MR. DRAYTON : Correct . I think you
12 can see from the pictures that I have
• 13 sent, there is no chances for putting a
14 rood over it . That is not my intent .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the deck
16 will remain open to the sky?
17 MR. DRAYTON : Yes .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : To improve the
19 CO on the property?
20 MR. DRAYTON : Yes .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It has no
22 impact on the side yard.
23 MR. DRAYTON : Exactly.
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Field
• 25 inspection shows the house across the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 42
. 1 street has a extensive front yard .
2 Eric, any questions?
3 MEMBER DANTES : I do . Is this going
4 to be squared off?
5 MR. DRAYTON : I am going to be
6 keeping that part of the house . I will
7 square it off if I have to . There is no
8 question that it has to be fixed. Right
9 now, it' s dangerous . So it' s not used
10 at all . I will be guided by your wishes
11 on that .
12 MEMBER DANTES : So you would be
13 making it smaller and not expanding it?
14 MR. DRAYTON : I am not going to
15 expand it .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The reason Eric
17 is asking about this is because Eric
18 stamps these plans and then we send
19 them over to the Building Department so
20 you can get a building permit . If it' s
21 different then from what we stamp, it
22 goes back and then back and forth .
23 MR. DRAYTON : Drayton I understand.
24 Let me ask you, if I may. In the end if
• 25 I do want to replace it as it
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 43
1 existed --
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is not a
3 problem. As long as you are not
4 changing the height or anything like
5 that , the Building Department won' t
6 have a problem with it .
7 MR. DRAYTON : Okay .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You are before
9 us for a side yard setback. So as long
10 as you maintain that, it' s not a
11 problem.
12 Anything else?
• 13 (No Response . )
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone
15 else in the audience that wishes to
16 address this application?
17 (No Response . )
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Hearing no
19 further questions or comments, I will
20 make a motion to close the hearing and
21 reserve decision to another date .
22 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
24 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
• 25 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 44
• 1 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
3 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
4 ******************** ******************
5 HEARING #6778 - SHOWALTER FARMS,
6 LLC .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
8 application before the Board Showalter
9 Farms, LLC . #6778 . Request for Special
10 Exception under Article III , Section
11 280-13B ( 12 ) for equestrian stables and
12 riding academy, located at : 18625 Main
• 13 Road, aka, New York State Route 25 in
14 Mattituck.
15 Is there someone here to represent
16 this application?
17 MR. NEMSHICK: Ray Nemshick,
18 Nemshick, Silverman Architects
19 representing Showalter Farms . Good
20 morning .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. There
22 are several things that we need to put
23 into the record . We know that you are
24 concurrently before the Planning Board
• 25 for final review in conjunction with
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 45
• 1 the Special Exception permit .
2 MR. NEMSHICK: We are .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We are aware
4 that the parcel has twenty something
5 acres of preserved land that the Town
6 purchased for development rights on .
7 And that that land prohibits based on
8 the Town ' s easement , the location of
9 the riding academy. It was granted
10 approval for some small farm buildings
11 for horses and so on. That there is a
12 reserve with 4 acres and has a house on
• 13 it . Very small barn . That is the
14 property of which you are requesting
15 the Special Exception, for the farm
16 breeding and raising horses . At the
17 moment , you ' re proposing that the ,
18 riding academy be not only on the 4 . 1
19 acres of the reserve, but within an
20 open paddock expanding area . And that
21 is all that you are proposing for the
22 riding academy?
23 MR. NEMSHICK: That' s correct .
24 That' s it .
. 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 46
• 1 something else that you would like us
2 to know?
3 MR. NEMSHICK: At this point, I
4 would like to introduce the same letter
5 but with the proper lot designations .
6 We had previously gotten a mistake
7 about the 1 . 4 was the development
8 rights sold. We are asking 1 . 3 of the
9 development rights . So I would like to
10 give that to the Board, and I have
11 copies for everybody.
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This is a
13 correction to the lot numbers; correct?
14 MR. NEMSHICK: Yes . At this point,
15 I would just like to briefly say, we
16 are here to deal with a riding academy
17 and only the development right of the
18 tax land and at this point , it is only
19 the outdoor ring . We are asking for a
20 Special Exception under a permitted use
21 for the riding academy. We would also
22 like to, if it' s okay with the Board,
23 to request, I would like to remain at
24 the podium, so I could answer anything
25 that comes up as it comes up, instead
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 47
• 1 of waiting to the end and answer all
2 questions at once?
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That' s fine .
4 I will just let everyone know that the
5 audience and Ray, you would have to
6 address the Board and not each other .
7 So as long as questions are asked of
8 us, I would see if you can answer that
9 question for us .
10 MR. NEMSHICK: That' s fine . We
11 didn ' t have that at the Planning Board.
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is
• 13 procedurally.
14 MR. NEMSHICK: Thank you .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And certainly
16 all of you who wish to be heard, will
17 be heard. I just want to say one
18 thing, I know there has been some
19 discussion about a second phase with a
20 building . Let' s be very clear about
21 that . That is not before this Board.
22 This Board is not considering that .
23 Should this Board decide that the use
24 is permitted by virtue of the standard,
• 25 if anything other than an outdoor arena
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 48
• 1 is proposed, then they would have to be
2 back before this Board . And then there
3 will be another Public Hearing and then
4 another specific structure that we can
5 all look at . And impact as the extent
6 of it . I just wanted you all to be
7 aware of it . That we are not
8 considering anything that is not before
9 us right now. Correct?
10 MR. NEMSHICK: Understood.
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you want to
12 begin with any questions from the Board
• 13 or hear what the audience has to say?
14 MEMBER HORNING: I just have a quick
15 question. The 4 . 18 acres , that is Lot
16 1 . 3 , sir?
17 MR. NEMSHICK: Correct .
18 MEMBER HORNING : And the 20 acre,
19 which are the development rights sold
20 to the Town, that is 1 . 4?
21 MR. NEMSHICK: Correct . 1 . 4 .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Who would like
23 to address the Board? Please come to
24 the podium and state your name .
• 25 MS . GILVARRY : Good morning . My
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 49
• 1 name is Anne Gilvarry and I live on
2 Gabriella Court . Because I live on
3 Gabriella Court , people are here ( In
4 Audible) something . That I am against
5 horses . That I am against the property
6 rights , the rights that the owners have
7 for the home that they purchased. Or
8 that I am against changing things .
9 None of this is really true . In fact,
10 I am here today because I am very much
11 in favor of . When the decisions are
12 made thoughtfully and to keep in mind
• 13 the greater good of our community today
14 and in our future . It is my sincere
15 hope that the Zoning Board will share
16 the same concerns of our local
17 residents and ( In Audible) predict how
18 the decision is made soon or the past
19 and the future . The property owner has
20 asked for an exception to allow the
21 property business without sharing the
22 scope and plans for that business . The
23 riding academy will encompass more than
24 three small sheds , a storm drain and
• 25 parking spots . In fact, the owners
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 50
is
1 have been upfront and said that this is
2 Phase 1 of the plans . They are asking
3 the Zoning Board to give them an
4 exception to run a business before it
5 has been officially shared with the
6 full extent . I do realize that it will
7 need additional town approval, but it
8 seems dangerous to approve a business
9 before it' s seen how greatly it will
10 impact the residents . The exception
11 now will open the door to a much more
12 larger business whose impact on the
• 13 community will be much larger . The
14 residents have been told that if the
15 Board were to grant a Special
16 Exception, that there would be
17 restrictions in place . And if the
18 decision is to give an exception, I
19 hope you will consider the very real
20 concerns of our neighborhood in terms
21 of overdevelopment of the 4 acres . It
22 becomes more congestion . Specifically
23 the special events will impact the
24 quality of our life . In the
• 25 application to the Zoning Board, the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 51
• 1 agent for Showalter Farms describes
2 their intending site use as "all the
3 activities included under a commercial
4 horse board and farm operation, plus
5 riding lessons to the general public,
6 public trail rides and other more
7 public commercial client related
8 activities . " It is , "the other more
9 public commercial activities" that has
10 me more concerned than anything else .
11 As beautiful as horses are and can be,
12 other more public commercial activities
• 13 can be something else more entirely.
14 Such as horse shows , reserved events
15 that has the potential to be more
16 incredibly ( In Audible) to our
17 residential area . This is a difference
18 between living next door to a horse
19 farm and next to a commercial farm
20 business . I just don' t feel that we
21 could be too cautious . We all have
22 seen other local businesses be what
23 they never imagined they were going to
24 be . And events like this, don' t appear
• 25 to be in keeping with the cultural
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 52
• 1 zoning . So I ask the Zoning Board to
2 limit such activities now and in the
3 future . That is why I am here . I am
4 in favor of this Board being able to
5 have all of the information necessary
6 to be able to consider all the factors
7 involved and make the best decisions
8 today and for our future . Thank you .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you.
10 How many people are here, by a show of
11 hands to support what she has just
12 said? Let the record show that the
• 13 vast majority of the audience . Who
14 else would like to address the Board or
15 would you like to make any comments?
16 MR. NEMSHICK: At this point, the
17 only comment that I have is the product
18 description under "use type, " was
19 simply a direct quote from New York
20 State Ag and Market' s 5-A, and not the
21 definition of the riding academy. That
22 is why we put that .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. Anyone
24 else? Please come forward and state
• 25 your name and spell it for us .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 53
• 1 MR. CHAVALAS : Ron Chavalas . I am
2 president of the East End Livestock and
3 Horse Association, located here in
4 Northport . We support this proposed
5 commercial operation based on several
6 reasons and that the variance should --
7 the special variance should be granted.
8 We believe with the special variance
9 should be granted, the legal process of
10 the Planning Board and everything, the
11 whole process can be handled and the
12 proper environmental studies could be
• 13 done . And all the concerns of the
14 neighbors can be addressed through the
15 Planning Board. And this way, this
16 commercial operations that are here in
17 Southold on the same field, should be
18 treated fairly by everybody in the
19 Town .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
21 Anyone else?
22 MR. PIERSALL : My name is Doug
23 Piersall . One concern that we have is
24 and you mentioned that this is pretty
• 25 much the front 4 acres .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 54
• 1 MEMBER HORNING: Sir, can we ask for
2 your address?
3 MR. PIERSALL : My girlfriend is a
4 resident on Gabriella Court and I live
5 with her . The Southold Town Code,
6 130-4 , environmental quality review . I
7 guess my question is, the site plan
8 that we saw on Monday was not that
9 comprehensive . And having dealt with
10 DEC before, I did some looking and
11 according to 130-4 , a Type I action is
12 likely to have a significant effect on
• 13 the environment . So I did a little
14 research and found that if you have one
15 of these Type I actions, which I guess
16 I will get to, it involves -- if the
17 application involves -- if the action
18 involves an application, the applicant
19 shall submit a written statement to
20 give a description of the nature
21 proposed action and the effect that it
22 may have on the environment . I went to
23 New York State Department of
24 Environmental Conservation Law, I think
• 25 it' s called the Environmental
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 55
• 1 Conservation Law Section 617 , and it
2 states that granting -- the granting of
3 a zoning change at the request of an
4 applicant for an action that needs to
5 receive one or more of the following
6 thresholds given elsewhere on the list
7 is considered a Type I action . If you
8 read farther into the law, 617 . 4b6i,
9 says a project or action that involves
10 the alteration of ten acres , which this
11 appears not to well under this point ,
12 but farther down, it says any unlisted
• 13 action that includes a nonagricultural
14 use occurring wholly or partially of an
15 agricultural district that exceeds 65%
16 of any threshold established becomes a
17 Type I action . The aforementioned 10
18 acres , 25% , which is 2 . 5 acres which
19 should fall within this guideline,
20 which should mean that this should be
21 an environmental impact that would
22 accompany any change in zoning .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me comment
24 or clarify something for you . The
• 25 Planning Board has lead agency on this
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 56
• 1 application, which means that any SEQRA
2 review, which is the State
3 Environmental Quality Review, that
4 looks at environmental impact that
5 looks at that would be done by the
6 Planning Board during site plan review.
7 Zoning Board will not be a part of that
8 review. What we do today, is discuss an
9 application for a use that is permitted
10 in this zone district . It is not
11 rezoning . There are certain things that
12 the Town says that , Okay, you can do
• 13 that in this type of neighborhood . If
14 the Board of Appeals review is based
15 upon a series of standards . That that
16 applicant' s application meets those
17 standards . If they don' t meet those
18 standards, then they are not
19 necessarily entitled to get the Special
20 Exception . For your review, because
21 this is different from variance relief .
22 So that you might be able to think more
23 clearly on what we are looking at in
24 this case . We look at the fact that
• 25 this will not prevent the orderly and
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 57
1 reasonable use of adjacent properties
2 or properties that are adjacent use
3 district . So those adjacent properties,
4 we have to make sure that this will not
5 disrupt the use of those adjacent
6 properties . That is residential
7 properties and business properties .
8 Some of them are similar . We are
9 looking at not preventing the
10 reasonable and orderly use or even
11 established uses in the same district .
12 We are looking at the safety, health
• 13 and welfare and the order of the Town .
14 And to make sure that will not be
15 adversely effected by the proposed use .
16 We are looking at the use being in
17 harmony with the general purposes and
18 intent of Chapter 280-142 , which is the
19 Special Exception . The use will be
20 compatible with the surroundings and
21 the character of the neighborhood and
22 the community in general . Particularly
23 with regard to visibility and overall
24 appearance . The proposed structures,
25 equipment , materials to be readily
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 58
• 1 accessible to fire and police
2 protection . And the proposal shall
3 comply with stormwater management .
4 Those are the things that we look at
5 when we review the request for Special
6 Exception . Again, permitted in the
7 zone , but only if the Board feels these
8 standards are going to be upheld. That
9 is all that is before the Board at the
10 moment . The use of a riding academy is
11 permitted in this zone district . And I
12 understand the concerns that you may
• 13 have for future plans . We will not make
14 decisions based on future . That is not
15 before us . What is before us is an
16 outdoor ring for the riding academy use
17 on the preserved land. We only -- when
18 concurrent jurisdictions between
19 Planning and Zoning take place, the
20 Zoning Board will always condition our
21 approval based on Site Plan approval ,
22 because if it doesn ' t work on the site,
23 then you know, things go awry, if we
24 grant something, it gets undone .
• 25 Automatically, if it doesn ' t meet Site
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 59
• 1 Plan approval . And the public, of
2 course, has the opportunity to comment
3 on the process . All right . So that is
4 how it works . As I said, we can' t
5 speculate what the applicant might want
6 to do or the future because that isn ' t
7 before us . If the applicant wishes to
8 bring it before us, that' s another
9 story. And it' s permitted by Ag &
10 Market and it' s permitted by our Town
11 Code . If there is anything that you are
12 concerned about and suggest any ways to
• 13 mitigate these problems with that
14 outdoor riding ring, we are here to
15 listen . You know, evergreen screening
16 is useful and that can become part of
17 our condition . To keep dust down and to
18 protect visibility from the neighbors .
19 All of those things can be put into our
20 decision . A decision can be
21 conditioned to mitigate the problems,
22 but if there is a problem, then you
23 need to tell us what they are so we can
24 address them.
• 25 MEMBER HORNING: I am a little bit
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 60
• 1 confused about the project description
2 that was submitted by the applicant
3 just now, which calls for the placement
4 of three horse farms, approximately 500
5 feet from the main road. We are
6 looking at a sandy paddock riding rink.
7 MR. NEMSHICK: I can address that ,
8 if the Board pleases?
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well,
10 basically what the application says,
11 that we are continuing the right to
12 farm district in an AC Zone . Right to
13 farm refers to State' s Ag & Market' s
14 law. And while the Town has its own
15 code, Ag & Market' s is statewide, which
16 I am sure some of you are familiar
17 with . We can condition our decision,
18 assuming that -- you know, we can deny
19 it but if we approve it, we often
20 condition decisions for Special
21 Exception, but we have to also in this
22 case use decisions that do not conflict
23 with what the State says , right to farm
24 involves . That is Ag & Market' s law.
• 25 So counsel was just reminding me that
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 61
• 1 we have to look at both of them to make
2 sure that anything that we decide does
3 not conflict with the framework that
4 the State obligates us to examine .
5 MEMBER HORNING : Again, referring to
6 the Notice of Disapproval , those
7 permits including ( In Audible) how does
8 that relate to the instructions for --
9 I mean, do we need another Notice of
10 Disapproval --
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We don' t need a
12 Notice of Disapproval for Special
• 13 Exception permit .
14 MEMBER HORNING : Right . And yet we
15 have one .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And it' s not
17 related to -- not like variance relief .
18 You go to the Building Department and
19 you say "you want to build a garage"
20 and they say, "well, you ' re too close
21 to the garage . " So they write up a
22 Notice of Disapproval . The code says
23 you have to go 35 feet . You are 25
24 feet . So you are going to have to go
. 25 to the Zoning Board and apply for
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 62
• 1 variance relief saying you are going to
2 need to vary the code and require a
3 front yard setback. The Special
4 Exception permit , the Zoning Board has
5 jurisdiction over Special Exception
6 permits , which means that you just come
7 straight to us . If we need comments
8 from the Building Department , we send
9 them over . We send them to Planning and
10 so on. But right now, most general
11 Special Exception permits come directly
12 to the Zoning Board . So there wouldn ' t
• 13 be a Notice of Disapproval . But here we
14 do have Notice of Disapproval and it
15 simply says the use of Site Plan
16 approval and Special Exception
17 approval . That is all it says, which
18 means, that the Building Department is
19 taking no action until the Planning
20 Board acts and the Zoning Board acts .
21 And all it says, George, really is that
22 you can now apply to all these
23 agencies . The Building Department made
24 a determination that procedurally you
25 need to go to Planning and Zoning
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 63
• 1 Board. It initially started with the
2 Building Department .
3 MEMBER HORNING : So then it should
4 be blended together then . I can' t
5 imagine that it would all fit on the
6 same parcel . Is that your intent , sir?
7 MR. NEMSHICK: No, I can explain it
8 to the Board . The Building Department
9 does not consider it two separate
10 files . So the confusion arose because
11 on a tax map, we have 1 . 3 and 1 . 4 as
12 two separate lots . One is development
. 13 rights . The other is development rights
14 intact . Development rights intact is
15 what is in front of you today for a
16 Special Exception . The Building
17 Department deemed it; however, as one
18 lot and they want to write a Notice of
19 Disapproval on one lot . That is why
20 it' s a little confusing to us as well .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I see the Chief
22 Building Inspector in the audience . Is
23 that correct? Okay . He' s nodding his
24 head . Okay. All right . So it' s a little
• 25 unusual but what it' s saying is that
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 64
• 1 these two agencies can go ahead and
2 act . In this case, the riding academy
3 is proposing an outdoor riding arena .
4 MEMBER HORNING : In the sandy area
5 where you have the paddock right now --
6 MR. NEMSHICK: There will be a ring
7 built in -- on the 4 . 1 acres .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Can you talk a
9 little bit louder?
10 MR. NEMSHICK: I 'm sorry. The ring is
11 built on the 4 . 18 acres . It is on the
12 site plan . It' s development rights
• 13 intact .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And let me just
15 ask you to state on the record that
16 that is the extent of the riding
17 academy that you are currently
18 proposing?
19 MR. NEMSHICK: That is the extent
20 that the riding academy is currently
21 proposing on the 4 . 18 acres .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And it' s an
23 arena?
24 MR. NEMSHICK: It' s an outdoor riding
• 25 ring .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 65
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It' s not
2 enclosed in any way?
3 MR. NEMSHICK: It' s not enclosed in
4 any way. Just by a fence .
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Be a fence . Okay.
6 MEMBER DANTES : Can you go over the
7 operations of the arena?
8 MR. NEMSHICK: Sure . The arena will
9 be for borders and for riding lessons
10 and thus for the public is welcome to
11 come on the site because they ' re
12 boarding their horses . Breeding, and
• 13 treating horses is a permitted use and
14 not requiring a Special Exception by
15 town code . We are here to make sure
16 that the show alters have the ability
17 to conduct lessons for the purposes of
18 training anyone that boards the horse
19 on the land. Anything that has to do
20 with riding academy that is defined by
21 Ag & Markets .
22 MEMBER DANTES : I just want to ask
23 you, if someone comes off the street
24 and wants to take lessons , can they do
• 25 that?
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 66
1 MR. NEMSHICK: I mean, I don' t really
2 have any comment about that . If someone
3 comes off the streets and wants to ride
4 a horse here --
5 MEMBER DANTES : What if they ask for
6 a lesson . Do you think they can get a
7 private lesson?
8 MR. NEMSHICK: No, I can' t speculate
9 on whether or not the public can come
10 in and take a lesson . I don' t see
11 anything that would deny that .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You don' t have
• 13 to own a horse or board a horse to take
14 lessons . We are going to read into the
15 record what Ag & Market permits . Okay.
16 With the edition of ( In Audible ) for
17 purposes of AML 305 , a riding academy .
18 A riding academy generally offers
19 riding lessons to the public and to
20 individuals that do not own or have a
21 long-term lease for the horse that is
22 boarded and used at the facility for
23 such riding. So the point is,
24 Showalter ' s wants to be able to have
• 25 the land preservation up top 30 horses
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 67
is 1 on a property, which is the most .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Land
3 preservation says, according to Ag &
4 Market' s, this is -- based on the
5 acreage, this is the maximum that can
6 be sustained on this size property. In
7 other words, they don' t want it all
8 dirt . They don' t want the grass all
9 chewed up . You have to have a
10 reasonable balance between the
11 environment and number of horses that
12 will be on the property. 24 acres all
• 13 together, 4 of which is preserved for
14 this use and 20 acres , which can only
15 be used for agricultural purposes,
16 which do not include, in this
17 situation, a riding academy because the
18 Town bought the development rights .
19 The easement specifically prohibits a
20 riding academy on land that has been
21 purchased by the Town . That is the
22 difference . If they had 24 acres and
23 they hadn ' t sold the development
24 rights , then you know, it would not be
• 25 an issue at all . As it is, if they
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 68
1 want to have it on the riding academy,
2 it has to be on the 4 acres . Right now
3 they are proposing an open arena .
4 MR. TESINY : Al Tesiny on Gabriella
5 Court .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How do you
7 spell you last name .
8 MR. TESINY: T-E-S-I-N-Y . I have a
9 question for you . The land preservation
10 committee approved manure removal once
11 a week. Now, that is what I read in
12 the paper .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I honestly
14 don' t know.
15 MR. NEMSHICK: Yes , that is correct .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have to
17 look over here .
18 MR. TESINY : How many horses is that
19 for? Is that for ten horses? Is that
20 a sliding scale if it goes to 30, is it
21 going to go to three days a week.
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I can' t answer
23 that .
24 MR. TESINY: Then who can answer
• 25 that?
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 69
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I can' t answer
2 that because it' s not part of the
3 Zoning application . We have comments
4 from land preservation . I can look and
5 see in those comments and see if talks
6 about anything . Okay. Vicki says it' s
7 once a week for up to 30 horses . And
8 obviously if it' s less than 30 horses,
9 it' s still going to be once a week.
10 MR. TESINY: And where is this pile
11 of manure going to be stored? Is it
12 going to be up against the residential
• 13 line of the houses or is it going to be
14 on the far west of the property?
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I will ask the
16 agent .
17 MR. NEMSHICK: We can answer that .
18 By Town Code, it has to be located
19 within a 150 feet of residential
20 properties . So it will not be on the
21 eastern end of the property. It will be
22 on the western end of the property, if
23 it' s prior to pickup .
24 MR. TESINY : Okay. Thank you .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You ' re welcome .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 70
1 Anybody else?
2 MS . SULLIVAN : Hi . My name is
3 Lucille Sullivan . I live at 1375
4 Ackerly Pond in Southold . I am the
5 operator of ( In Audible) board horses .
6 This meeting is obviously more
7 restrictive then the public meeting
8 that we had with the Planning Board. We
9 understand that . I understand that what
10 is in front of this Board is an
11 application for a Special Exception to
12 run a riding academy. I understand that
• 13 it is a forlorn conclusion that there
14 will be some type of approval because
15 it is absolutely an approved use
16 through Ag & Market ' s and the Town
17 Code . That being said, through myself
18 and as the other people in this room,
19 take exception in large part, to the
20 fact that this Board and the Planning
21 Board and whoever else is involved in
22 the process, at this point seems to be
23 entertaining this application in ( In
24 Audible) now, the application before
25 you at this very moment is to run a
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 71
• 1 riding academy by definition, in an
2 outdoor ring on 4 . 1 acres . And with
3 all do respect, he says that is all you
4 can evaluate based on the application
5 in front of you, but there are two
6 things out there that this Board and
7 most of the people in this room are
8 aware of . The first is, the
9 application made to the Land
10 Preservation Committee, the grazing
11 plan and Melissa Spiros response to the
12 applicant . In that application, we
13 know that there intention is to have at
14 least 30 horses . The Planning Board is
15 the lead agency. And the application
16 before the Planning Board is for an
17 application for three building on the
18 development rights sold property, that
19 will house only 7 horses . In addition
20 to that, there are two other barns on
21 the front part of the acreage that fit
22 horses , where they propose to do the
23 riding academy. There hasn ' t been
24 answer as to how many horses they
25 intend to put on there, if any. It
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 72
• 1 appears that the intention is to have
2 30 horses , there will be horses in
3 those . The huge part of the publics
4 problem with this is the ( In Audible)
5 process . Now I understand that you
6 start a business, you have a vision .
7 You implement it and as things go along
8 things change . You add this and add
9 that . That is why we have an amendment
10 process . In the meantime, we have two
11 things in front of us . We have an
12 advertisement that was placed in May of
• 13 ' 14 that the Planning Board and I do
14 believe the Zoning Board is aware, read
15 into the record at the Planning Board
16 meeting . And the reason for bringing
17 this up, is because it shows their
18 intention . Now the response at the
19 Planning Board meeting and reading this
20 into the record, was that this was
21 placed by their lessees without their
22 knowledge . That may be true . They are
23 still involved with that lessee . So it
24 may appear that it was done without
• 25 their knowledge or letting the cat out
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 73
1 of the bag too soon . This is what they
• 2 discussed. When you hear this with the
3 November application they made for
4 their grazing plan, it' s obviously it' s
5 not about bringing personal horses
6 home . It' s about making their
7 business . So I will read this into the
8 record right now and then I have a few
9 more comments . So it' s in the May 2014
10 equestrian magazine . Hunters Creek
11 East Riding Club . "We ' re excited to
12 announce our relocation to a new 26
• 13 acre equestrian facility in Mattituck,
14 New York. Our new facility will
15 feature two state of the art outdoor
16 rings, an outdoor arena, hunter derby
17 field, a bridle path around the
18 property, round pen, large grass
19 paddocks and newly finished stalls . We
20 would like to thank Christopher and
21 Joanne Showalter for making this new
22 venture possible for us and look
23 forward to a successful future at our
24 new facility. We would also like to
• 25 thank all of our clients for their
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 74
1 continued support . We offer lessons for
2 children and adults from beginner to
3 advance, including additions and
4 alterations show preparation . New
5 boarders and students are now being
6 accepted. We also have quality horses
7 and ponies for sale and lease and are
8 now accepting consignments . " And at the
9 very bottom of it, it has Danielle' s
10 number, Sal' s number . Their e-mail
11 address and their Facebook page . So
12 what I gather from that is that they
• 13 have plans to have two outdoor arenas ,
14 even though the application before you
15 is for one . They also have intentions
16 of having a hunter derby field. Now, a
17 hunter derby field is part of the
18 riding academy. As a horse woman, my
19 understanding of a hunter derby field
20 is that it' s a large grass riding area .
21 And what is performed is that they
22 could have large natural looking
23 obstacles to jump . Now they usually
24 have the option of a smaller one and a
25 larger one . The larger ones that you
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 75
• 1 jump, are larger ones in a competition .
2 Now, if you have a hunter derby field,
3 you are going to be using it for one or
4 two applications . Either you are going
5 to be having competitions there where
6 people are using them or if you are not
7 having competitions there, then you
8 have it available for your students, so
9 they can practice and successfully do
10 those jumps . Now as a trainer, jumping
11 is not one of my specialties, visages
12 are . When I teach my students for
. 13 competition I am getting paid and I am
14 teaching them. And so that is part of
15 my riding academy. I don' t understand
16 how this hunter derby field can be on a
17 ( In Audible) field at all . They ask for
18 two large grass areas . Now the first
19 one that they have already started
20 construction on, and it' s on their
21 Planning Board application, is 140x270 .
22 That' s . 95 acres . Assuming the second
23 outdoor arena will be smaller . Let' s
24 call it, . 7 acres and their indoor
• 25 arena is 80x200 , which is just standard
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 76
• 1 indoor arena size . That would be
2 another . 4 acres . You are up to lot
3 coverage of 2 . 1 acres . Add to that
4 parking, not for their recommending 8
5 spots based on their Phase 1
6 application, but we know that it' s
7 going to be 30 horses . And they all
8 come with clients, lessons , okay.
9 There are two barns that are existing
10 and a residence on the property. That
11 only leaves 1 . 9 acres to add all that
12 other stuff . I believe for me and for
. 13 the people that I have listened to,
14 this application reams as disingenuous .
15 What is the plan? And while you are
16 saying -- like I said, I am a horse
17 person . They should get a Special
18 Exception . You need to have people safe
19 and educated. At this point , it' s by
20 Special Exception. But there is a
21 bigger plan here and we all know it . So
22 you can say, you can only judge what is
23 in front of you . But what is in front
24 of you is 30 horse application that was
• 25 made last November to Land Preservation
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 77
1 and an advertisement that was made in
• 2 May and they are both much larger then
3 what you ' re considering . So are we
4 going to consider this three phases?
5 When you ' re approving it , are you going
6 to say that this is one arena only,
7 140x270? Are you going to limit no
8 horse shows? I assume lessons are
9 acceptable . In my view, it would be
10 better to just grant the Special
11 Exception . Yes , you can have a riding
12 academy. Granting it with a lost of
. 13 limitations . In order for this to now
14 grow unmanageable, I don' t know how you
15 can approve it at this point . You
16 don' t have a full plan in front of you .
17 There is a bigger plan here . I mean,
18 until there is a site plan showing
19 where this is all going to be, how can
20 you approve this application at this
21 very moment . I thoroughly believe that
22 you should approve this application at
23 some point, but this is not the point .
24 I think you have a half application
• 25 before you . And when you have a full
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 78
• 1 application before you, you can run
2 your riding academy. If you do it
3 right now with all these conditions,
4 you can' t police it . How are you going
5 to stop it? There is the problem.
6 There is a bigger plan here and we all
7 know it . The representative said at
8 the Planning Board meeting that they
9 shouldn ' t be forced to do what they
10 don' t have the means to do right now .
11 They don' t have to . They can lay their
12 fan out and build half of it . We have
13 been doing that . We just do it as we
14 have the money, but we laid our plan
15 out . From my position and what I have
16 heard from other people, this
17 application is absolutely disingenuous .
18 They are just choosing not to tell us
19 right now. They are telling us because
20 they ' re advertising it . So I don' t
21 know how as representatives of this
22 Town government that we have, to say,
23 we have no idea . To have an idea about
24 what is going on here . You know, they
• 25 want to get their riding academy going
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 79
• 1 while the weather is nice . That is
2 part of the gain . Go through the
3 process like the rest of us did. I did
4 it . So should they. Thank you .
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
6 MEMBER HORNING: Can I ask a
7 question? What is the difference
8 between the visage and the hunter
9 derby?
10 MS . SULLIVAN : They teach horses to
11 jump . I teach them to dance . We don' t
12 have any obstacles . I teach them to do
• 13 use their legs .
14 MEMBER HORNING : Thank you . May I
15 ask them, this representative of
16 Showalter . Showalter is the owner of
17 the property, correct?
18 MR. NEMSHICK: Correct .
19 MEMBER HORNING: Both lots . But what
20 the Building Department considers one
21 parcel?
22 MR. NEMSHICK: Correct .
23 MEMBER HORNING: When were the
24 development rights sold?
. 25 MR. NEMSHICK: I believe it was sold
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 80
• 1 2011 . Pindar were the prior -- had the
2 prior rights . That is in the
3 application before you . We gave you the
4 deed and all that .
5 MEMBER HORNING : Okay. And why were
6 the development rights sold?
7 MR. NEMSHICK: I don' t know .
8 Showalter didn ' t tell us .
9 MEMBER HORNING : Okay. What was the
10 price paid?
11 MR. NEMSHICK: I believe that is in
12 the application .
• 13 MEMBER HORNING: Okay. All right .
14 $1, 200 , 000 . 00 roughly.
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I would like
16 you to respond to what Lucille Sullivan
17 had to say with respect to the
18 commercial operation .
19 MR. NEMSHICK: Sure . Our response is
20 that Showalter didn ' t put out that
21 advertisement as reflected by her
22 statement . So what is in front of you
23 right now, is the scope of what the
24 Showalter' s would like to continue in
• 25 the application process . We are not at
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 81
• 1 liberty to discuss that, because no
2 decisions have been made right now . I
3 don' t believe the application is not
4 complete . We believe what we are
5 applying for is a riding academy on a
6 4 . 18 acre parcel . And I don' t really
7 want to get into speculation . I don' t
8 believe it' s going to benefit anybody
9 and I don' t really want to take the
10 Board' s time up with that .
11 MS . SULLIVAN : May I ask a question
12 in response to that? Are they going to
• 13 be -- again, there has been a lot of
14 information floating around. According
15 to something that I read, Mrs .
16 Showalter was quoted as just wanting to
17 have a riding academy. I don' t have the
18 quote in front of me, but that they
19 just wanted to run it . When you have a
20 lessee, they lease the piece of
21 property from you and they run their
22 business . If they leased the property
23 to someone else, and if that' s the
24 case, the lessee is going to be
• 25 carrying the function out and they may
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 82
• 1 not have had knowledge of that
2 advertisement . If that is how the
3 riding academy will be run, if that is
4 the lessee . So are they the landlord
5 or running the place?
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It would
7 appear that there are some questions
8 that people may have in their minds
9 about the voracity of what is before
10 this Board. I have no reason to
11 particularly doubt what this
12 application says, but that is why we
• 13 have public hearing' s . We are here to
14 hear from the public. Our task would be
15 to figure out how to proceed. After
16 all, on a 4 acre parcel, just the size
17 alone, it' s not a colony where they
18 take up a lot of space . The number of
19 people coming and going and the
20 intensity of the use on the property is
21 very much part of our application . They
22 already said 30 is a max . We are not
23 experts in horse operation . That is
24 why we have to rely on people who are .
25 To point out what some of the concerns
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 83
• 1 might be . We take these very
2 seriously.
3 Ray, do you have any interest or
4 desire to state to the Showalter' s some
5 of the concerns that have been brought
6 before the Planning Board and the
7 Zoning Board, that the public has
8 brought to light, to perhaps you can
9 respond to more fully about whether or
10 not there is an intent beyond before
11 this Board? So that we can have a more
12 fuller sense of who is going to live
• 13 there and who is going to operate? Who
14 is going to live in that house .
15 Apparently right now it is farm
16 workers . And they are coming and going
17 and their relationship to the business
18 operation is something that the Board
19 needs to consider also . So, you know,
20 these are all part of the review.
21 MR. NEMSHICK: Sure . At the point,
22 there is no lessee for the land. Owner
23 operators at this time . Is that going
24 to change for the future? That is up
25 to my clients . I really have to say,
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 84
• 1 we ' re in the beginning stages of
2 planning of what we are trying to do to
3 the lot . For me to come out and say, we
4 believe there is going to be a larger
5 building on the property? Yes, at this
6 point I believe there is going to be a
7 larger building on the property. Do we
8 know the size and scale of that
9 property? No, we don' t . We have every
10 right as it comes to them because
11 obviously we are going to be fore you
12 again with any building that would be
• 13 proposed outside of what is before you
14 today.
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Actually, you
16 wouldn ' t have to, if we conditioned it
17 that way.
18 MS . SULLIVAN : That is my point .
19 They wouldn ' t have to come back unless
20 you conditioned it .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Site Plan
22 review is going to look at every single
23 structure that ius proposed. If a new
24 structure is proposed, then you will be
25 back before the Planning Board. It' s a
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 85
1 cumbersome process . It' s much better
2 fir everyone' s sake if the larger
3 picture is available at the beginning .
4 There is no question about it .
5 Obviously, your client is not prepared
6 to do that .
7 MR. NEMSHICK: And let me clarify
8 something . When I say back before you,
9 I mean, Southold Town . Obviously, if we
10 are within our zoning rights, we don' t
11 ave to come before the Zoning Board.
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I am talking
• 13 about the Special Exception .
14 MR. NEMSHICK: Right . You need to
15 make that one of the stipulations so
16 that we would have to be before you
17 again . Planning is lead agency for a
18 reason . This is a planning operation .
19 Right . Site Plan and the Building
20 Department also have decided to send us
21 to ZBA. We don' t make those
22 determinations . I just want to make
23 sure that it' s very clear that the
24 Showalter' s have not chosen to withheld
• 25 information on what will be on the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 86
• 1 site . They simply want to develop it at
2 their own pace and I think they have
3 that right .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well, let' s see
5 if you can answer the following . If in
6 fact , testimony was given to the
7 Planning Board that this ad was placed
8 by a lessee and now the Showalter' s,
9 how does that work with what you just
10 told us that the Showalter' s are not
11 leasing it? They are owner operators .
12 MR. NEMSHICK: I did not say they are
• 13 not leasing it . In the future, they
14 might lease it . At this time, they are
15 not leasing the property to the entity
16 or the persons that put out that
17 advertisement . I am still kind of
18 dumbfounded that you can' t put out
19 advertisement for a potential business .
20 You all see the coming soon and this is
21 what they are going to offer . So I
22 don' t understand what the advertisement
23 has to do with this application at all,
24 other than, there is just conjecture
25 out there . Any questions that are
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 87
• 1 brought to the Showalter' s, they would
2 be happy to answer . In a neighborly
3 facet . Not for sake ( In Audible) in a
4 public hearing . That is something that
5 has taken us back a little bit . We
6 thought the whole idea of a Public
7 Hearing was to inform the public of the
8 process and what we are applying for .
9 That is why we are here today.
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is part of
11 it . They have a chance to voice their
12 interests and how this would be
• 13 compatible with the neighborhood.
14 MR. NEMSHICK: And I would offer an
15 idea to develop and plan the facility
16 after the public comments , rather than
17 before .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well, we can do
19 that . We can adjourn and pick another
20 date and you can submit plans .
21 MR. NEMSHICK: Correct . I think you
22 know that is not what I mean . I don' t
23 want you to adjourn the date . That the
24 public comments will be taken by the
• 25 Showalter' s to heart and will develop
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 88
• 1 the property with their thoughts in
2 mind. That is all I am trying to say.
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is a
4 responsible community response .
5 However, this Board does not plan . That
6 is not our intention. When we have to
7 proceed, the facts before us and the
8 drawings that are before us and any
9 conditions that we set in a decision
10 have to do with mitigating potential
11 conflict . So that is the way it works .
12 We are not making decisions . We enter
13 this with an open mind and we are
14 gathering the facts . Then we have to
15 shift through all of them to make sense
16 out of them.
17 MEMBER DANTES : What is the
18 relationship between the Showalter' s
19 and the individuals who put the
20 advertisement in there?
21 MR. NEMSHICK: I don' t know. I can
22 ask the Showalter' s if you would like .
23 MS . SULLIVAN : May I ask a question?
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You may.
• 25 MS . SULLIVAN : This is why the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 89
• 1 process was started. The Building
2 Department putting a stop work order on
3 this . It' s a very small town . Kids go
4 to school together and there is
5 Facebook pages . It may be considered
6 hearsay, but what we have heard is that
7 that particular owner was leaving his
8 lease on the current farm and going to
9 the new property. So while there may
10 not be a link, there is a more of an
11 obvious relationship.
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Those are
• 13 understandable concerns . It may cast
14 some doubt on the property. This whole
15 business of the future and the future
16 of the building . What happens is , the
17 perception, people are uncomfortable
18 with the transformation process . That
19 is what appears to be in a nutshell .
20 Not hearing that people are having huge
21 objections of a horse farm. That is
22 what the law permits and Ag & Markets
23 and so on . That' s it . So we work hand
24 and hand with the Planning Board. To
• 25 make sure that we are doing right by
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 90
1 the property owners and right by the
2 community. You know, we all want the
3 quality of our landscape to prevail . I
4 don' t know anyone who doesn ' t . We are
5 all neighbors . We are trying to make
6 prudent decisions and listen
7 thoughtfully and make prudent
8 decisions . I can promise you that we
9 will do that . We will consider that .
10 MEMBER HORNING : What is a portable
11 barn?
12 MR. NEMSHICK: A portable barn is a
. 13 barn that was constructed off site and
14 brought to the location. It' s like a
15 prefab structure .
16 MEMBER HORNING: So it' s not
17 portable?
18 MR. NEMSHICK: Not really. It will
19 have a foundation. It was brought to
20 the site . It wasn ' t erected on the
21 site .
22 MEMBER HORNING : These prefab
23 structures , are they all going to be
24 located on the 4 . 1 acres .
• 25 MR. NEMSHICK: No . None of them are .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 91
1 They are all going to be on the
2 development rights .
3 MEMBER HORNING: The question is, how
4 does that pertain to the Special
5 Exception?
6 MR. NEMSHICK: It doesn ' t .
7 MEMBER HORNING: And someone has
8 introduced this into your application?
9 MR. NEMSHICK: We introduced it by
10 the project description . The Building
11 Department has taken this as one lot .
12 So we included that as part of it . The
. 13 Zoning Board sees it at two lots . I
14 don' t understand it --
15 MEMBER HORNING: It' s quite
16 confusing . Thank you .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You know,
18 counsel pointed out something to me
19 that I think the public should be aware
20 of, of the fact that Ag & Markets
21 requested that this application be fast
22 tracked by the Planning Board and they
23 are either requesting whether or not a
24 Special Exception permit is even
25 required for this kind of use . Not just
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 92
• 1 for this particular application, but in
2 general . This Board has chosen and the
3 Town has chosen, to consider the
4 welfare of the public within our own
5 code, in opposition to Ag & Market' s,
6 whether or not this is even required.
7 We said, no . We are going to go through
8 with a Public Hearing and listen to the
9 public . We are a local Board and we all
10 live within the Town. Just so you know,
11 we are getting pushed a little bit from
12 Ag & Market' s but our concern is the
• 13 welfare of our town . That we are going
14 to take all of this into consideration
15 and move forward, even though with
16 opposition from Ag & Market' s, which is
17 a very powerful entity within the
18 State . They are to protect farming . So
19 I don' t know what else we can learn
20 today, unless someone can add something
21 new to this or the Board has any
22 questions . Ray, I am not sure if you
23 want to add any comments?
24 MR. NEMSHICK: Not at this time .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 93
• 1 someone else in the audience that would
2 like to add something we have not
3 heard? Please come to the podium and
4 state your name for the record, and
5 tell us what you would like to know.
6 MR. MCCLAINE : My name is Derek
7 McClaine . I live behind it . The
8 biggest thing is -- I am not trying to
9 say they are bad, but before they came
10 here for the Special Exception, why
11 didn ' t they contact us? They had my
12 address . I got mailed.
• 13 MEMBER HORNING: Sir, can you give
14 us your address?
15 MR. MCCLAINE : 515 Gabriella Court .
16 You ' re right, I am scared . If they
17 weren ' t planning on doing other stages
18 to this , why is this Phase I . I know if
19 I had the money and I was doing this , I
20 would do this now and maybe come back
21 to it . This is Phase I . It could be 10
22 or 15 or whatever . It' s my quality of
23 life . It could go right in the
24 garbage . I live there . They don' t
• 25 live there . That is what bothers me .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 94
• 1 If they were owner occupied, I probably
2 wouldn ' t have a problem with that .
3 Right now, I know whose living there, a
4 bunch of Hispanics . They don' t care
5 what it looks like . They have garbage
6 all over the place . It looks like crap
7 and I have to pass that every time I
8 get to my house . Right now, they are
9 not showing to be good neighbors . If
10 they wanted to be good neighbors, they
11 would have shown us what they were
12 doing and let me know . Why are they
13 going through the Zoning process?
14 Instead of building it and getting
15 caught and now coming to go through
16 this? That bothers me . Just show me .
17 Show me what you are going to do . We
18 want to know . That is all we are asking
19 for . I rather have them there . I read
20 that article . They are a bunch of
21 trash . They are slobs . They tell you
22 one thing and they do another .
23 Horrible . I wouldn ' t put it pass them
24 that this is going to happen . I know
• 25 their actions personally . I have seen
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 95
• 1 it . I lived by it and they do want they
2 want . If they are the ones that are
3 going to be running the farm, they are
4 not going to care . I don' t care if it ' s
5 150 feet from my property, I am going
6 to smell the manure . 30 horses is a
7 lot . That is a lot . If they want to sit
8 down and show me what they are going to
9 do, I would be happy to see what they
10 are going to do . If they are going to
11 have a loud speaker out there and the
12 phone ringing, and I am sitting in the
• 13 back, that' s not right . I am asking
14 these questions and no one is answering
15 them. I just want to know . I am not
16 going to hurt them. I am not a vicious
17 person . I just want to know . I don' t
18 think that is not of a concern of
19 everyone here . Just let us know what
20 you are going to do . I don' t think that
21 is too much to ask for .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well, that is
23 why we have public hearings . That is
24 the reason . Of course, we can
• 25 understand your concerns . I think that
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 96
• 1 they would be a bit anxious about it,
2 if they didn ' t know what was happening
3 in their backyard. The Board generally
4 accepts in good faith that an
5 application is factual . That it is
6 what it is . I can see there is
7 contention about what is going on . Is
8 this what is going on for now or for
9 later . I don' t think that we should
10 close this hearing . I think we need a
11 little more time . Ray, perhaps you want
12 to talk to the Showalter ' s and bring
• 13 them up to speed on what is going on .
14 Perhaps they already know . There is a
15 lot of issues and the Board should
16 think some more . If we close the
17 hearing, then that' s it . Please come to
18 the mic and state your name .
19 MS . MCNAMARA: Jennifer McNamara . I
20 am known as Lot #13 . I live at 1095
21 Gabriella Court . I appreciate the him
22 being here . I appreciate the Town and
23 the Showalter ' s . I just wanted to
24 mention the possibility of maybe the
• 25 Showalter' s speaking with us , the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 97
• 1 neighbors . As a community. As
2 neighbors . I am not here to try and
3 stop a horse farm. I am here along with
4 my neighbors . We really just would like
5 to know what the extent is going to be .
6 I have a street called Noah' s Path . So
7 we are very concerned about that . Being
8 opened up and used for the equestrian
9 farm. Most people drop their kids off
10 their during Halloween because it' s
11 very quiet and safe . I would welcome
12 the Showalter' s to my home . To come and
• 13 discuss as neighbors of what they are
14 looking to do .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You are here
16 and they are here . The lobby is here .
17 If they are willing and they are
18 interested, I suggest that you guys
19 speak to each other outside this
20 meeting hall .
21 MS . MCNAMARA: Thank you .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I would like to
23 propose to the Board that we leave this
24 hearing open for two weeks , to the
• 25 Special Meeting, which is two weeks
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 98
• 1 from tonight . We will leave it open for
2 written comment . Anybody who wants to
3 submit anything to the Board, the
4 Showalter' s, Ray, the community . We
5 will receive any written testimony. And
6 based upon what we receive, we will
7 either schedule another Public Hearing
8 or we will close it . You know, if we
9 think we have all we need to move
10 forward. Once the hearing is closed,
11 just so you are aware of the timeframe,
12 the Board has 62 days within which time
• 13 to render a decision . It is rare that
14 we take all 62 days . It' s very
15 complicated, we may request an
16 extension from an applicant . So we are
17 going to try and work with the Planning
18 Board and balance this out . Talk to
19 each other . Feel free to get some
20 clarity, and let us know what your
21 thinkings are .
22 MR. PIERSALL : Doug Piersall . I
23 understand what you just said. I
24 assume then your decision, it would be
• 25 based on getting Planning Board
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 99
• 1 approval?
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Subject to .
3 What this means is , when the Planning
4 Board has to do a site plan approval,
5 if they feel that they can make it
6 work, then what we do is , we base our
7 approval on their approval . Then it
8 will nullify. We will write it up as a
9 condition . We will say if Site Plan
10 approval cannot be obtained by an
11 applicant, then the Special Exception
12 permit is null and void.
• 13 MR. PIERSALL : Thank you .
14 MS . COLLINS-FERRARA: My name is
15 Annette Collins Ferrara . I agree with
16 Mr . Doug Piersall in that , I believe
17 that environmental impact statement
18 should have been done, on this proposal
19 and I will tell you why. The ( In
20 Audible) ground had to change the
21 drainage and topography of the ground.
22 ( In Audible) felt like small
23 earthquakes . I had a leak in my oil
24 burner . God knows what has happened to
• 25 my foundation . The land has been
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 100
. 1 destroyed already. I thought that a
2 purpose was to control and prevent ( In
3 Audible) of the Town' s ( In Audible) .
4 In addition, these areas also provide
5 an open rural environment for resources
6 and second homes . I just would like to
7 know how is this commercial riding
8 academy in keeping with the spirit of
9 conversation? I know when I purchased
10 the house, I had to pay a transfer fee
11 for preservation of land . And then I
12 find out that a commercial entity is
• 13 going on that property.
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , I can
15 answer, farming can also be a
16 commercial entity.
17 MS . COLLINS-FERRARA: How is a
18 riding academy farming?
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It' s
20 livestock. Ag & Market' s determines
21 that livestock is a right of farming .
22 MS . COLLINS-FERRARA: And also the
23 manure can be toxic and could be toxic
24 to their well water . In addition, I
• 25 never heard if the stables have a
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 101
• 1 building plan . Would you be able to
2 your chief building inspector --
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : He has left .
4 There is no building that can be placed
5 without a building permit .
6 MS . COLLINS-FERRARA: It' s already
7 there . When I requested for the
8 permits , the Building Department didn ' t
9 know about it .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , there
11 should be a stop work order .
12 MS . COLLINS-FERRARA: There is .
• 13 That is why I called. I didn ' t
14 understand how the Town -- how people
15 can just put up buildings . God knows
16 what happened to the drainage . They
17 stamp on the ground like earthquakes .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That happens
19 some times but it' s not --
20 MS . COLLINS-FERRARA: Well , it did.
21 Keep in mind that this man was on the
22 Ethics Board and he know better . Thank
23 you . How can they proceed without
24 permits . And that is how I will end my
• 25 comments .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 102
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. I am
2 going to take one or two more comments
3 and then we are going to adjourn this
4 to the Special Meeting . Go ahead, Ray.
5 MR. NEMSHICK: I have nothing to
6 add.
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : In the
8 interest of time, we have taken a lot
9 of time and testimony and hopefully
10 there will be some collaboration
11 between the Showalter' s and the
12 neighbors . And I am going to make a
• 13 motion to adjourn this hearing to the
14 Special Meeting in August 21St and
15 leave it open for written comments and
16 depending upon now and then, what we
17 think.
18 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Maybe a day or
19 two before, so we can have some time
20 to --
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is a good
22 idea . Leave this open for submission
23 of comments to August 19th. And also,
24 by then we could put a rush on the
• 25 transcription of the hearing . There is
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 103
• 1 a lot of information in this recording .
2 Anyone who wants a copy, can come to
3 the offices and FOIL it . Just ask
4 Vicki . It' s $ . 25 cents a page . You
5 can also look at it there . I think
6 that is the best for now . The motion
7 is to adjourn to the Special Meeting .
8 Written comments to be taken in by the
9 office till August 19th . Is there a
10 second.
11 MEMBER HORNING : Second .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
13 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
14 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
15 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
17 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
18 ************************* *************
19 HEARING #6771 - KIMOGENOR POINT,
20 INC . (BRENNAN)
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
22 application before the Board is for
23 Kimogenor Point, Inc . (Brennan) Request
24 for variance from Article XXIII Code
• 25 Section 280-123 and the Building
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 104
1 Inspector ' s June 5, 2014 Notice of
2 Disapproval based on an application for
3 building permit for demolition and
4 construction of a new single family
5 dwelling at; 1 ) a nonconforming
6 building containing a nonconforming use
7 shall not be enlarged, reconstructed,
8 structurally altered or moved, unless
9 such building is changed to a
10 conforming use . The existing cottage is
11 a nonconforming building with a
12 nonconforming use, located at : 50
13 Jackson Street, adjacent to Great
14 Peconic Bay in New Suffolk.
15 MR. SAMUELS : Good morning, my name
16 is Tom Samuels . I am the architect on
17 this project . We are calling it the
18 Brennan residence . Donald Brennan, my
19 client, is here today. The general
20 contractor is here today along with a
21 number of residents from Kimongenor
22 Point . I would like to start with the
23 Disapproval . Why is it a demolition
24 and construction? This is not our
• 25 intention . This is not what I applied
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 105
• 1 for . However, between a number of
2 conversations between your staff and
3 the Building Department, it was decided
4 to keep that disapproval with that
5 language even though it was our intent
6 not to demolish this house . I just
7 wanted to make that clear . I said to
8 the Building Department and also Vicki,
9 that I saw the potential here for
10 misunderstanding on this project . In
11 their wisdom it was decided not to be
12 changed. I just wanted to make it clear
• 13 that our intention is not to demolish
14 and reconstruction . It' s renovation to
15 an addition. We have been here before .
16 I will try to be clear in my
17 description of this project . Kimogenor
18 Point is 500 years old this year . It' s
19 a cooperative property. Maybe the first
20 in New York State . The land is owned by
21 the corporation . And the owners own a
22 portion of this corporation . They also
23 share a bunch of features of the site .
24 The beach, the dock, the beach house,
• 25 maintenance assessments . So it' s an
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 106
• 1 unusual thing is Southold Town . It may
2 be the only one in Southold . Therefore
3 it' s considered nonconforming by
4 definition because it' s not single
5 separate property ownership . So even
6 though the use is considered
7 nonconforming, it' s considered
8 conforming due to the nature of the
9 residential configuration . So that is
10 why we are here . That is the complexity
11 of the situation . We have been here
12 before for other houses of Kimongenor
• 13 Point . So I know you are familiar with
14 us . Originally there were 6 cottages
15 built on the bay. Several years later,
16 an additional six were built . They are
17 all somewhat consistent from a design
18 standpoint . They all have wrap around
19 porches . They are all aligned in a way.
20 They have consistent pitches . They have
21 dormers for the most part . And they are
22 all white with colored shutters . So
23 there is a very consistent look. I
24 really want you to look at the
25 differences of these houses . Cottage
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 107
• 1 #1 was redone about 25 years ago . This
2 is the style . They wrap around. There
3 is the shed former . There are the
4 different roof pitches to create the
5 cottage style . Cottage #2 , one-story
6 house . Wrap around porch . This is
7 appearing to be one of the original
8 style houses . Cottage #3 , two-story
9 house . It' s probably the most similar
10 house to what we are proposing to do
11 next door . Shed dormer . Roof pitches .
12 They have infilled. They have added to
• 13 the house numerous times over the
14 years . Cottage #4 , the Brennan
15 residence . Pitch style roof . One-story
16 house . The porches were to a larger
17 extent and enclosed over time . It is
18 this cottage that we are now talking
19 about and adding a second floor to .
20 Cottage #5, again, a gable house with
21 shed dormers . Infilled porches . Was
22 added to over the years . It was rebuilt
23 in a way that went to a two-story
24 house .
• 25 MEMBER HORNING: Can you give us a
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 108
. 1 name on the house?
2 MR. SAMUELS : The owners name is
3 Marsh . I can give you the other
4 names --
5 MEMBER HORNING : It' s okay. I
6 followed along until we turned the
7 corner .
8 MR. SAMUELS : It' s a year round
9 house . It has been renovated. #7 , as
10 you may remember, this is the Bingham
11 residence .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How can we
• 13 forget .
14 MR. SAMUELS : I was hoping you might
15 have not . It was expanded in 2012 with
16 26% enlarged at that time . In what we
17 felt was the style of Kimogenor Point .
18 Had to comply with FEMA. It became a
19 complicated thing as you may remember .
20 Cottage #8 . Hip roof . Added onto the
21 right . This was filled in over time .
22 This was one of the original houses .
23 #9 was the Archer residence . We did
24 this in 2014 . Added a second floor .
25 Same thing, facing the bay. Shed
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 109
. 1 dormer . Aligning the porches . Cottage
2 #10, the Fox residence . One of the
3 originals . Big porch facing over the
4 bay . Changes over time . And finally,
5 #11 , this is at the point . This house
6 has been added to for sure . Awkward
7 looking shed dormer to the left . Very
8 much one of the same . #12 was done a
9 little later . Screened porch on the bay
10 side and this side . On the whole,
11 although they are consistency with
12 these houses, they all have their own
• 13 way. It has changed over time . Polio .
14 It is at the opposite end. I just
15 wanted you to have a direct look at
16 each of the houses . Right next door to
17 the Kimogenor Point, this ws a cottage
18 style house . All within the North Fork
19 beach houses . So all of these houses
20 are still somewhat . They have been
21 updated. The two that I have experience
22 with are Archer, 2014 and Bingham,
23 2012 . One of those was a one-story and
24 became a second-story. The Brennan
• 25 project, is an existing four bedroom
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 110
1 house with three baths . We are
2 proposing to turn it into a five
3 bedroom house and 3 and 1/2 baths . So
4 we are adding the addition of one
5 bedroom in this house .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Tom, what would
7 the proposed increase of liveable floor
8 area be?
9 MR. SAMUELS : The existing from a
10 footprint perspective, I will start
11 with the first floor, has 2 , 381 living
12 area and 620 feet of porch, for a total
• 13 footprint of 3, 001 square feet . The
14 proposed footprint is reduced the first
15 floor living area of 1 , 694 square feet
16 but we have taken away some of that in
17 order to create a garage as part of
18 this house, which is within the
19 existing footprint . So the total living
20 and garage on the first floor, is 2 , 204
21 square feet, plus the porches of 830
22 square feet . We have taken some area of
23 dwelling space and reverted to a
24 covered porch . So the porch has gotten
• 25 bigger . It ' s 41 feet greater than the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 111
• 1 existing footprint . The proposed living
2 area is 1694 square feet . The proposed
3 second floor is 1555 square feet for a
4 total living area of 3 , 249 square feet .
5 So that is an addition of 868 square
6 feet or 36% increase .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There is no
8 second floor now?
9 MR. SAMUELS : No .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the entire
11 second floor that you are proposing is
12 new?
• 13 MR. SAMUELS : Correct .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And it' s how
15 many square feet?
16 MR. SAMUELS : 1 , 555 .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. It' s an
18 expansion of the footprint?
19 MR. SAMUELS : It' s not an expansion
20 of the footprint . It' s an expansion of
21 the square footage, but not in the
22 footprint . We are carving the garage
23 out of the footprint .
24 MEMBER HORNING : You are not changing
• 25 the footprint ; correct?
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 112
• 1 MR. SAMUELS : 1 . 40 .
2 MEMBER HORNING : Increase . Okay .
3 MR. SAMUELS : We are taking living
4 are out of the first floor and making a
5 garage .
6 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: And where is that
7 1 . 4% .
8 MR. SAMUELS : ( In Audible ) front
9 porch .
10 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I am looking at
11 #4 , that is the existing footprint . You
12 were just rattling off a bunch of
• 13 existing space and changing space .
14 Interior spaces and porches and stairs,
15 3119 . Then a proposed footprint 3178 .
16 MR. SAMUELS : ( In Audible . )
17 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay.
18 MR. SAMUELS : ( In Audible ) this
19 reverts here . Here is now the interior
20 space . So we have taken away these
21 areas and we have reverted to an open
22 space for them. We have taken one area
23 of open space and added on this
24 cantilever . We are adding another
• 25 staircase from porch to grade .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 113
• 1 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay.
2 MR. SAMUELS : And here is another
3 part of our problem here . These are why
4 are numbers don' t match .
5 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay. And in
6 looking at the same sheet, the upper
7 left hand, that is where the garage is
8 going to go?
9 MR. SAMUELS : Correct .
10 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Perhaps maybe you
11 can redo this sheet with the other
12 numbers you have calculated?
• 13 MR. SAMUELS : Yes .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let' s look at
15 some of the options here . One thing
16 that distinguishes this property from
17 Breezy Shores , which is another
18 cooperative . Even though the code says
19 nonconforming use, we know it' s not .
20 It' s residential use but because it' s
21 multiple dwellings on one lot . We have
22 had one situation. Most of them have
23 been add-on ' s over the years . The
24 character of the neighborhood, is
• 25 rather different from Breezy Shores,
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 114
• 1 which is basically unheated and
2 seasonal use . A lot of C & R' s as to
3 what it should look like . In that case,
4 they had a demolition . We had permitted
5 it to be replaced in kind . Without
6 saying, "too bad. You' re done . " There
7 is no way you can create conformity on
8 this lot . This Board has actually
9 questioned a couple of other properties
10 in the Town that had led to possibly
11 doing something with the code . We have
12 allowed up to an extension of 3% in
• 13 Breezy Shores to the existing
14 footprint . Primarily for mechanical
15 upgrades and so on . It' s so small . Now
16 you ' re proposing far more than that .
17 Okay. It' s essentially with the
18 footprint . It' s an enlargement , which
19 is essentially not permitted by code .
20 Which is fairly de minimus . Now the
21 second floor addition is not . So what
22 do we do? Again, a variety of some
23 confusing circumstances, we tend to
24 look at the code . There have been
• 25 enlargements in this community. So
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 115
1 that is in a nutshell of really what we
• 2 have to grapple with . The reason why
3 this has been considered a demo, it' s a
4 major renovation . So many changes that
5 it' s virtually a rebuilt in any way you
6 look at it . So the question is about
7 the enlargement . The good news is that
8 it' s not on the water, which helps .
9 Does the Board have any comments or
10 questions?
11 MEMBER HORNING: I have questions .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes .
• 13 MEMBER HORNING : Can you tell us why
14 you are not considering it to be a
15 demolition?
16 MR. SAMUELS : Yes . For one thing, it
17 can ' t be . By definition ( In Audible) .
18 Because of this nonconforming property.
19 As a result, we have done everything
20 that we can to try and figure out how
21 that can happen . I met with Mike to try
22 and work through this approval at the
23 time . At the same time, he could only
24 offer me some guidance . There was no
• 25 real standard on how you were going to
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 116
• 1 quantify this . But we had done in the
2 Bingham residence, we had done a
3 similar calculation . In looking at the
4 structure and trying to access what we
5 are keeping and what we are getting rid
6 of . So that was the only method that I
7 had to use to measure to figure it out .
8 I believe you have a copy of it, the
9 analysis of the structure that is to
10 remain . I made sure that it went in
11 there . I calculated the structures of
12 the house --
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Tom, I can
14 clear this up . This is like the Bingham
15 property. There was preservation of the
16 second floor . It was small . At the
17 time, the Building Department
18 determined that that was sufficient .
19 The Building Department has been using,
20 not ( In Audible) framing members . They
21 have been essentially using enclosures .
22 If you are keeping in tact interior
23 walls that actually close something.
24 Steps doesn ' t matter . So what they are
25 really saying is that they are not
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 117
• 1 going to accept this idea of wall
2 surface as a square footage . The square
3 footage must be a volume of space . It
4 is not measuring height . It' s just
5 measuring enclosure . Because I said,
6 there is nothing really a gut rehab .
7 You are preserving in part habitable
8 space . Again, I feel that it' s a very
9 mirky piece of legislation and I think
10 the Board has grappled with it for
11 ages . We have been truing to be as
12 thoughtful and responsible as possible .
• 13 In this case, that is why I asked about
14 the expansion. As builders know, it' s a
15 bad way to build with old rot and
16 sistered-up . It just is . And when you
17 are investing in a large piece of
18 property, it is certainly
19 understandable why you would want to
20 put in new stuff . Now, we will have to
21 determine whether or not is if a
22 rebuild in place is okay with the
23 expansion . Beyond that , the second
24 floor is a substantial expansion . I
• 25 think we could probably look at each
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 118
• 1 and every one of these cottages , each
2 and every one was different over time .
3 I wanted to ask you --
4 MR. SAMUELS : We don' t have to put
5 piles under it . Thankfully. The Bingham
6 was a one story that got a second
7 floor . The 12 houses that are there, 9
8 of them have second floors .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They were not
10 determined to be demolishing . That is
11 why the Notice of Disapproval was not
12 changed. They want to end the practice
• 13 of calculating remaining structure by
14 looking at two dimensional surfaces as
15 though it was habitable space . So I
16 guess the intent was to keep part of
17 the building intact?
18 MR. SAMUELS : We are keeping the
19 entire first floor . Not the entire
20 walls but a portion of the walls . I
21 would just say, I am not sure if that
22 interpretation, when you are talking
23 about 25% of the structure --
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I am not
• 25 talking about 250 of the structure . I
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 119
• 1 am talking about an enclosure .
2 MR. SAMUELS : And that is their
3 interpretation of what it is .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All they want
5 to do is get this before the Board, it
6 is or isn ' t a demolition . Take it from
7 there . And that is really their call .
8 So we are going to have a go with it
9 and see what we can do with it . They
10 are going to determine that so we know
11 how to act .
12 MR. SAMUELS : I understand the
. 13 situation that you are in and I respect
14 that . Respectfully, I would just say
15 that the character of the neighborhood
16 and precedence, originally these kinds
17 of things have happened regularly.
18 This is simply the newest update . To
19 make this sturdy . To protect from
20 future storms and things like that . So
21 we are trying to do that the best we
22 can .
23 MR. SAMUELS : We do have the general
24 contractor here today. He has spent a
• 25 lot of time working on this house and
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 120
• 1 going underneath the house . There is
2 complexity down there and things have
3 to be propped up and made right . We
4 have gutters running every six feet .
5 Just to support those structures, which
6 you know, is not a lot of structure
7 down there . It' s uneven . There is
8 probably minimal insulation in the
9 walls . There is no strapping . We need
10 to raise it 18 inches to that effect .
11 It' s a mess . So I do think there is a
12 philosophical issue here, but it' s our
• 13 intention to meet the needs of my
14 client . There is nothing extravagant
15 about this at the end of the day. The
16 bedrooms are very small . It' s still a
17 cottage at the end of the day.
18 Everything is low, and low, and I have
19 to justify to my clients as to why .
20 MEMBER HORNING : Can I ask when the
21 house was built? Can we have an
22 approximate date?
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Sir, you have
24 to come to the microphone .
• 25 MR. FOX: My name is Bob Fox . That
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 121
• 1 house was probably around 1910 , 1900
2 somewhere around there .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is this house
4 year round?
5 MR. SAMUELS : It can. They don' t live
6 their full-time .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is their intent
8 to?
9 MR. SAMUELS : No . Every house is
10 heated. We have the DEC . We have the
11 Trustees . We are LWRP consistent . We
12 believe we are very close to a Health
• 13 Department approval as well . We are
14 consistent with their regulations . We
15 just sent them in -- we got an
16 incomplete on technicality questions .
17 We are non jurisdictional from
18 Trustees . I can sort of explain the
19 technique that we are going through --
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Sure .
21 MR. SAMUELS : So the idea is to put a
22 new foundation in . Still a mixture of
23 concrete footings and locust posts .
24 Lift it up . Clean out what is
• 25 underneath there . Put in a proper
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 122
• 1 spread footing and girders . It will
2 never be a basement . Just a crawl
3 space . Not even a slab . We are going to
4 do limited renovations that is close to
5 this design . That means taking off the
6 roof structure that is there .
7 Reinforcing what is there . We want to
8 do in this instance, we are going to
9 try and keep the interior sheathing
10 that we can . We can ' t have anything
11 fall away. Whatever can remain of that
12 existing surface area of that house,
• 13 interior walls -- we are basically
14 going to reframe and nail the heck out
15 of it . So that we can meet the code .
16 Frame the second floor, which is new
17 construction, which we have
18 established. Strap it all together .
19 Outside finishes, windows and roof .
20 Probably spray foam insulation . It' s an
21 expensive way to build, if you could
22 imagine . A complicated way to build.
23 Definitely be easier if you say, just
24 tear it down but I don' t expect that .
• 25 The fact that we are going to maintain
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 123
• 1 that structure, and build from there .
2 And in order to do that, we recognize
3 that we need to stay in constant
4 contact with the Building Department .
5 We can' t do that again . I don' t want
6 to come back to you and have -- if you
7 are kind enough to give us a variance,
8 I don' t ever want to have to come back
9 and talk to you . We want to stay in
10 very close with Michael . Ask his
11 opinion on everything that we come
12 upon . Make sure that he is happy and
• 13 that we are meeting our obligations to
14 the code .
15 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: So if I am getting
16 this straight , most of the lumbar that
17 exist there today, would not be
18 permitted by today' s standards?
19 MR. SAMUELS : No .
20 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: The wall studs ,
21 the floor joists?
22 MR. SAMUELS : No . The building
23 practice that we build -- in this
24 climate, in order to get the
• 25 insulation, 2x6 walls . We use
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 124
• 1 engineered lumbar now to maintain a
2 level .
3 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: What are the
4 joists in this house?
5 MR. SAMUELS : 2x6 at center . Very
6 lightly frames . 2x4 ' s run by the
7 outside and some of those are not 2
8 foot on center .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What is the
10 existing square first floor?
11 MR. SAMUELS : Is 2 , 318 square feet .
12 Enclose all the walls . Then there are
• 13 620 feet of porches surround that as
14 well . The owner is sitting here . We
15 would like to have that . That is very
16 useful space for us . It does help
17 tremendously to have that space there .
18 Initially our intention was to not go
19 outside that footprint at all .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Have you
21 considered, you just say it ' s a
22 cottage . I don' t think a 3 bath and 5
23 bedroom house is really --
24 MR. SAMUELS : Yeah, we use that word
• 25 for a lot of things .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 125
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Maybe the
2 style .
3 MR. SAMUELS : Yes . Style . It' s a
4 house .
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It ' s a big
6 house .
7 MR. SAMUELS : It' s relatively modest .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Have you
9 considered reducing the second floor?
10 MR. SAMUELS : No .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It' s new square
12 footage under the circumstances is
• 13 pretty substantial . When you look at
14 the first floor and then the second
15 floor, it' s pretty substantial .
16 MR. SAMUELS : It' s not doubling but
17 I see your point .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I am just
19 seeing if we could do something .
20 MR. SAMUELS : I understand. Our
21 intention was to try and keep this
22 modest . Just over the rectangular of
23 the house . So we have tried to craft
24 this thing . Then we pushed this down,
• 25 that second floor down . So that it' s
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 126
1 really a story and a half at that
2 point . We are very conscious of the
3 overall mass of the house . We tried to
4 ghet the spaces modest and volume . We
5 have not increased the volume of the
6 house by 50% . We were using what was
7 attic space . My sense now, is that they
8 need this square footage . I don' t think
9 we have addressed that . I don ' t see how
10 we can .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I am just
12 looking at the code . How many other
. 13 homes -- there are 12 altogether?
14 MR. SAMUELS : 12 altogether .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How many homes
16 are comparable in size to what you are
17 proposing .
18 MR. SAMUELS : Okay. Looking at my
19 photos again .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What is the
21 total square footage of the house?
22 MR. SAMUELS : First and second floor
23 without porches , living area 3 , 249
24 square feet . I am looking at these
• 25 photos . I think Cottage #1 is in that
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 127
• 1 category.
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is
3 without the garage and porch?
4 MR. SAMUELS : Correct . Cottage #1
5 is pretty big . It extends a lot in the
6 back . Cottage #2 does not have a
7 second floor . Cottage #3 has several
8 bedrooms on the second floor . Cottage
9 #4 does not . Cottage #5 has a big
10 second floor . Almost like the first
11 floor . Two story house . Cottage #6, is
12 a two story house . #7 , Bingham is
• 13 largely the same . We expanded the
14 second floor and come closer to --
15 still not the same size . It almost is .
16 It' s approaching the same size . Cottage
17 #9 we talked about a moment ago . The
18 second floor is over the footprint . In
19 this case, we are adding over the
20 garage . #10 is a one story and #11 is a
21 two story house .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What I am
23 trying to do is get character of the
24 neighborhood. If in fact, we can say,
• 25 okay, one story houses are typically X
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 128
1 amount of square feet . Two story' s are
2 X amount of square feet . I am just
3 trying to figure out, how we as a
4 Board, can do something to accommodate
5 the owner, that is, you know, within
6 keeping with the code . With the
7 stretching and pulling that we can do .
8 MR. SAMUELS : Yes .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So I think you
10 can see where I am trying to get at .
11 MR. SAMUELS : Yeah .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : To look at the
• 13 character of the neighborhood. How the
14 evolved in being enlarged. So let' s not
15 address the demolition for a moment .
16 Let' s just look at the evolution of
17 these dwellings over the years and get
18 a bench mark of what is characteristic .
19 MR. SAMUELS : Okay. I have done the
20 map only on the two that I worked on .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Just a little
22 table or something of the history of
23 the cottages . And some thought that is
24 given to how you can get more bedrooms
• 25 by maybe getting rid of the garage .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 129
• 1 Somehow the enlargement is very
2 substantial . And that is part of the
3 problem. Frankly, if we had seen how
4 Bingham was going to unfold, I don' t
5 think the enlargement of the footprint
6 would have been as generously granted.
7 MR. SAMUELS : Which is partly why we
8 did not come back for an enlargement of
9 the footprint .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It' s a
11 beautiful property. Everyone knows it
12 in the Town and respects it . I won' t
• 13 speak for the rest of the Board, but
14 it' s certainly reasonable that over
15 time properties, you know, have the
16 right to be renovated, restored and
17 altered. You know, I don' t see too many
18 of them that have attached garages . Do
19 any others have attached garages?
20 MR. BRENNAN : I am Donald Brennan,
21 the property owner . There are no other
22 attached garages . There are garages
23 that are next to the houses . I just
24 want to point out about the size issue .
• 25 I have not measured them, but they
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 130
• 1 appear to measure in excess of the
2 number that we are talking about .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay.
4 MR. BRENNAN : Those homes are much
5 larger than our proposed home .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well, that
7 information is helpful because we are
8 trying to find ways of addressing the
9 variance relief standards . And
10 actually, we are really only looking at
11 demolition and enlargement of the
12 structure . That is only part of the
• 13 notice . It will be, I presume, even
14 though that is not in that section of
15 the code . But I think it' s reasonable
16 for us to proceed with those kinds of
17 things that are possible .
18 MR. SAMUELS : Just also note that we
19 are still within the allotted
20 percentage of 200 .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right . So just
22 sit down and think it through and I see
23 the neighbors . I am sure they are here
24 in support . Although I am sure we will
• 25 find out . I will ask them and maybe we
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 131
1 can get some more testimony and
2 evidence in the record that will be
3 somewhat helpful in trying to sort this
4 out . Anybody else have any other
5 questions on the Board? Okay. This is
6 your time . Anybody else in the audience
7 that would like to address this
8 application?
9 MS . MARSH : Hi . My name is Mary
10 Williams Marsh . I am Cottage Owner #6
11 which does have a second story. I just
12 want to show my support for Donald and
• 13 Jessica Brennan in this project . What
14 you don' t see is the rigorous attention
15 to detail in preserving the structure
16 and the historical nature of their
17 home . They have -- we have our own
18 process in which they have to submit
19 plans and have conversations with us
20 and assure us as a group of what their
21 intentions are . And we are all in
22 support of what they are doing . These
23 homes were built a long time ago and
24 there comes a time when the past has to
• 25 meet the future . Just from a code
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 132
1 perspective, heat, air conditioning and
2 just modern things . They are preserving
3 the nature of what this home is
4 supposed to be, which is a quaint
5 cottage . At the time they were built,
6 they were supposed to house an entire
7 family. They are five bedrooms , but
8 they are very small . I can assure you
9 because my house looks very much like
10 proposed. I just wanted to let you guys
11 know that they have all been in contact
12 with the Board members and we are all
• 13 in support of their project . We
14 appreciate that they are trying to
15 maintain the historic nature of the
16 property and to align with the rest of
17 the homes . Thank you.
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you . And
19 who else from Kimogenor is here? Okay .
20 And I am sure you are in support? Okay.
21 Okay, any other questions from the
22 Board? Is there anyone else in the
23 audience who would like to address this
24 application?
25 (No Response . )
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 133
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. I think
2 I would like to adjourn to the Special
3 Meeting and maybe provide us with some
4 more information . If we have any more
5 questions then we will have another
6 hearing . If we don' t, we will just
7 close the hearing and just try and sort
8 this out .
9 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Any just a
10 revision of Sheet #4 .
11 MR. SAMUELS : Yes . I will work on
12 that . Is there anything else that I
• 13 should be working on towards? We will
14 submit it to the office .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I mean, we do
16 have -- I am really truing to -- when
17 we make decisions , we are not trying to
18 make precedent with unintended
19 consequences . We can certainly
20 distinguish between Breezy Shores and
21 Kimongenor . That is why being able to
22 identify the history of the houses and
23 how they evolved and sizes --
24 MR. SAMUELS : Is a narrative .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : A good
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 134
1 narrative . I would consider the
2 attached garage as not a characteristic
3 of Breezy and could provide -- I 'm
4 sorry of Kimogenor . So that may be a
5 way to maintain the footprint but with
6 more habitable space . These are things
7 that you would want to talk to each
8 other . I am sure . All right . So I am
9 going to make a motion to adjourn in
10 order to receive additional analysis ,
11 to the sp of August 21st .
12 MEMBER HORNING: Second.
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
14 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
15 MEMBER HORNING: Aye .
16 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
18 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
19
20 HEARING #6776 - WINDSONG COVE, LLC .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
22 application before the Board is for
23 Windsong Cove, LLC, #6776 . Request
24 for variance from Article III Section
• 25 280-15 and Section 208-105C3 the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 135
• 1 Building Inspector ' s May 30 , 2014 ,
2 amended June 26, 2014 Notice of
3 Disapproval based on an application for
4 building permit to construct accessory
5 pool house, pergola, in-ground pool and
6 deer fence, at; 1 ) accessory pool
7 house, pergola, in-ground pool in
8 location other than the code required
9 rear yard. 2 ) 8 ' deer fence proposed in
10 location other than side and rear yard,
11 located at : 3770 Private Road #1 ,
12 adjacent to Long Island Sound in East
• 13 Marion .
14 Who is here to represent that
15 application?
16 MR. JANNUZZI : Yes . Good afternoon .
17 David Jannuzi for the applicant .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Good afternoon .
19 Usually the Notice of Disapproval
20 tells us what yard you are putting this
21 in . This says , other than the rear
22 yard . Is it a side yard.
23 MR. JANNUZZI : It' s a little muddled.
24 To the east of the property is a right
f25 of way. We got a denial from the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 136
• 1 Building Department because they really
2 considered two fronts here .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I see . Does it
4 go through --
5 MR. JANNUZZI : It comes to the
6 property on the east side .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So that right
8 of way goes to Cove Beach Estates . How
9 many dwellings are surfaced by that
10 right of way?
11 MR. JANNUZZI : I don' t think there
12 are any lots there yet .
13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I see, it' s a
14 proposed. So there are lots that are
15 established without any construction?
16 MR. JANNUZZI : Correct .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have to
18 come to the podium and state your name .
19 MR. PALAMENTO: My name is Nicholas
20 Palamento . I am here on behalf of Roe
21 Wilomean. Owner of the property to the
22 east . I am sorry, I didn ' t mean to
23 disrupt the meeting and certainly
24 Mr . Jannuzzi . The situation that I
• 25 understand Mr . Wilomean is that it does
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 137
1 not exist or does not -- they are not
• 2 beneficiary of the right of way. So
3 that' s something that I think might be
4 instrumental in guiding this
5 discussion . I don' t know if it' s there
6 or not . I received a frantic phone call
7 from the owners and they asked me to
8 stand here to speak on their behalf .
9 And the right of way --
10 MR. JANNUZZI : It' s not for the
11 property to the west .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Where are we?
13 We are right here . They have no rights
14 to use it .
15 MR. JANNUZZI : That' s not necessarily
16 the case . We have a different thing
17 with them.
18 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: So you do have
19 access to it and they say that they
20 don' t .
21 MR. JANNUZZI : They are all adamant
22 that this right of way does not exist .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So this is a
24 matter to be sorted out amongst the
• 25 subdivision?
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 138
• 1 MR. JANNUZZI : Correct .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay .
3 MR. JANNUZZI : So we were faced with
4 a situation . We won' t be able to keep
5 everybody happy in this instance, but
6 we think that this is a very minimal on
7 the neighbor . There was an allegation
8 or a complaint the right of way was
9 cleared . But I don' t know what sort of
10 rights you can evoke with a clearing of
11 right of way or removal of the trees
12 from that right of way would have a
13 visual impact on something . It' s going
14 to have to be cleared at some point for
15 those lots to the east of our property.
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Who is using
17 Private Road #1?
18 MR. JANNUZZI : That is the main
19 entrance .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are there any
21 other properties that use that? Oh .
22 Yes . There is a couple . Yep .
23 MR. JANNUZZI : Part of that
24 subdivision from ( In Audible) .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay.
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 139
1 MR. JANNUZZI : I would also just make
• 2 mention, in our application, we
3 included a number of variances for
4 accessory pools , pergola, inside yards .
5 And I have listed five of them with
6 their appropriate ZBA numbers .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : because for all
8 intent purposes , it looks like it was
9 on the seaward side . So now I
10 understand. So it' s a technical
11 determination?
12 MR. JANNUZZI : Correct .
13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The setback
14 from the accessory structures, you
15 know, it' s such a tiny little survey
16 and tiny site plan . Can you tell me the
17 proposed property line is a the top of
18 the bluff? Setback from top of the
19 bank? It' s on there . It' s so little . I
20 can' t even read it .
21 MR. JANNUZZI : 188 .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : 188 setback
23 from the non-disturbance buffer,
24 between house and top of the bank.
• 25 And the accessory structures are --
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 140
• 1 from the right of way, can you figure
2 out what the setback is there?
3 MR. JANNUZZI : 41 . 4 .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : 41 . 4 front yard
5 setback. So the next question that I
6 have is what is the setback from the
7 proposed deer fencing in the front yard
8 to the front yard -- it' s going to be
9 very substantial . Can we keep this
10 larger one for our file?
11 MR. JANNUZZI : Yes .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The setback is
• 13 -- that is actually of Private Road #1
14 and the end of their driveway.
15 MR. JANNUZZI : ( In Audible) currently
16 services this one .
17 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay. So they plan
18 on having deer fencing all the way
19 around?
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think we need
21 to get you guys back at the mic so we
22 can get your testimony. Okay . Well now
23 we understand where this proposed
24 location is . We should also enter into
• 25 the record, what is the acreage of the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 141
1 property?
• 2 MR. JANNUZZI : Approximately 10
3 acres .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. And how
5 would you characterize what is around
6 it? What is the character of this
7 neighborhood?
8 MR. JANNUZZI : I would characterize
9 it as -- to the east of us , is this
10 development, the subdivision has been
11 in effect but has been no development .
12 To the east is Mr . Tulley' s property,
• 13 but is in the process or maybe has been
14 approved for a subdivision, which would
15 result in two lots . That is also a ten
16 area . So there is few and far between .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The two
18 properties are about 10 acres each?
19 MR. JANNUZZI : About five each .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. Given the
21 fact that we have approximately 600
22 foot setback and no impact whatsoever
23 ( In Audible) .
24 Eric, any questions?
• 25 MEMBER DANTES : No .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 142
1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ken?
• 2 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone
4 in the audience who wishes to address
5 this application?
6 MR. PALAMENTO: Again, Nick
7 Palamento . He just ask that the
8 application be denied . He is ( In
9 Audible) right of way. I personally
10 don' t know if the right of the way will
11 impact the site development but he is
12 requesting that it be denied. Also, he
• 13 just ask in the event that you do need
14 to make a decision, you just postpone
15 because he is in the Netherlands . He
16 owns this property. He recently
17 suffered a grave love and many family
18 members in the eastern Malaysia jet . So
19 he is dealing with a lot of personal
20 grief right now and at the very least,
21 he would like the privilege to speak on
22 his behalf, that would be welcome .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Does he wish to
24 testify or written comments?
• 25 MR. PALAMENTO: I was unable to reach
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 143
1 him myself today. I received a frantic
• 2 phone call that this was occurring and
3 his attorney, Mr . Cuddy could not be
4 here . So he asked for some sort of
5 representation . I think at the very
6 least he would like the opportunity. He
7 asked very clearly to ask for a denial
8 for the size pool, pergola and garage,
9 I guess .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well, it' s 188
11 setback which is more than a principal
12 setback . Let' s do this , let' s adjourn
• 13 to the Special Meeting in two weeks and
14 that will then give you an opportunity
15 to provide information in writing . If
16 they wish to have a second hearing on
17 this , if that is something that they
18 feel they can' t do that in writing, we
19 should get that in writing to reflect .
20 I would suggest you contact them and
21 tell them this is occurring . That we
22 are extending this meeting to the
23 Special Meeting . No testimony will be
24 taken. I will tell you, if we get
• 25 anything, we will contract you . So
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 144
1 everyone is on the same page . At the
• 2 Special Meeting if we decide we don' t
3 have everything we need we will adjourn
4 it to the next meeting . If we do that,
5 it will have to be October because we
6 are absolutely completely booked up.
7 MR. PALAMENTO : Absolutely . I will
8 convey the message .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone
10 else in the audience that wishes to
11 address this application?
12 (No Response . )
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Hearing no more
14 questions or comments , I will make a
15 motion to adjourn this Special Meeting
16 which is August 21st and to receive
17 request either written comment from the
18 adjacent subdivision and or request to
19 adjourn to the October meeting .
20 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second.
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
22 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
23 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
25 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 145
• 2 HEARING #6774 - ALEXANDER KOFINAS ,
3 AS TRUSTEE
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The final
5 application before the Board is for
6 Alexander Kofinas, as Trustee, #6774 .
7 Request for variances from article XXII
8 Section 280-116B and Article III
9 Section 280-15 and the Building
10 Inspector ' s June 10 , 2014 Notice of
11 Disapproval based on an application for
12 building permit to rebuild a single
• 13 family dwelling with pool surround,
14 cabana and legalize "as-built" storage
15 building with deck, at ; 1 ) less than the
16 code required bulkhead setback of 75
17 feet for all structures, 2 ) "as-built"
18 storage shed and deck at less than the
19 code required rear yard setback of 15
20 feet, 3 ) accessory pool cabana proposed
21 in a location other than the code
22 required rear yard, located at : 805
23 West Road, adjacent to Peconic Bay in
24 Cutchogue .
• 25 Is there someone here to represent
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 146
• 1 this application?
2 MR. KIMACK: Good afternoon . Michael
3 Kimack for the applicant . If I could
4 ask you to take a look at the site
5 plan . Basically I am going to use that
6 as my tool as reference . We are
7 requesting three variances, and I will
8 start with the first one, which is the
9 setback less than 75 feet from the
10 bulkhead. At the present time, 53 . 3
11 feet to the bulkhead at one corner of
12 the pool . To go back to cases sited
• 13 prior to this , I refer you to the field
14 cases that I have submitted. ( In
15 Audible) . To the bulkhead of 45 feet .
16 We are requesting to our closest point,
17 53 . 3 feet . And the reason it' s 53 . 3
18 feet is because the layout of this
19 property with the proposed two story
20 house and realignment of the property
21 -- if you take a look at this area,
22 which would be the north side . That is
23 proposed at 25 feet . The first floor of
24 the house is 26 . 45 . The pool is 24 . 5 .
• 25 If we move that -- if we have to move
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 147
• 1 that back 22 feet, it' s a burden on the
2 applicant . By taking it back 22 feet ,
3 three things occur . First of all,
4 everything would have to be moved back
5 to the 25 foot line . There would
6 probably be 500 yards of excavation . On
7 top of that, if you look at the
8 driveway coming in, right now, it' s
9 proposed to be roughly a 9% grade . By
10 truncating an additional 22 feet, to
11 meet the 75 feet , that becomes roughly.
12 12% . So there are consequences and that
• 13 is the reason why we stay with that
14 area . By keeping it to the front
15 basically, it' s way above the flood
16 plain line . The one corner of the pool
17 ius at the 18 foot elevation . The VE
18 line through this area, varies from 8
19 feet to 9 feet . The existing new
20 bulkhead, although I don' t have -- I
21 did measure from the upper one, which
22 is sitting at an 16 foot elevation . The
23 bottom is roughly at 8 feet elevation .
24 It' s a brand new structure, so is the
. 25 upper retaining wall . This is proposed
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 148
• 1 to get a two tiered retaining wall ,
2 which rosa rugosa and beach grass to
3 further protect that bank. The location
4 of the pool is not going to cause any
5 erosion . The second accessory building
6 in other than the rear front yard is
7 the cabana basically. There are three
8 cases that I find that I was able to
9 find, which I have also included. That
10 is the second variance that we are
11 requesting, which is the side yard
12 cabana, which is , if you look at it,
• 13 it' s attached to the pool area . The
14 third one is the 0 foot bulkhead
15 setback. Basically, this has a rather
16 long history to it . The prior owners
17 had applied for and received from the
18 Trustees wetlands back in 2009 . And
19 actually back in 2007 , and they
20 reapplied back in 2009, to reconstruct
21 the retaining wall . In order to do
22 that , it required to be taking down the
23 storage area as part of that
24 reconstruction. I don' t know what
• 25 happened. It wasn ' t done until 2013
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 149
• 1 after the storm. I am not sure what
2 occurred. The permit was not issued
3 because of storm damage . It was issued
4 because they wanted to repair the
5 retaining wall . And this was in the way
6 basically . I did have -- you should
7 have a picture in there, a 1976 photo
8 that I found from aerial images . Show
9 the deck pretty close to exactly where
10 it is right now. I was able to find
11 that photo . This deck has existed in
12 that location, 38 plus years . There has
• 13 been a deck on that 0 bulkhead for
14 quite some time . It' s a solid
15 structure . From the VE point of view,
16 the action of the ways might come over
17 that six inches to a foot . But never
18 get any where close to the upper
19 retaining wall .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have a copy
21 of the LWRP?
22 MR. KIMACK: I do . I did check and
23 they were correct . It' s an odd area .
24 It' s on the leeward side . So this one
25 doesn ' t get as much wave action as the
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 150
• 1 other one does .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Mark is
3 basically saying that the as built
4 storage shed is rebuilt without review
5 from the ZBA and are located within
6 FEMA flood zone VE, which is high
7 velocity.
8 When was this rebuilt , the storage
9 shed?
10 MR. KIMACK: I believe late 2012 or
11 early 2013 . That is the best that I can
12 guess . The approval that went along for
. 13 the approval of the wetlands for the
14 construction I think was signed in July
15 2013 .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So there is
17 Trustees approval for the
18 reconstruction of this deck --
19 MR. KIMACK: Yes . The permit was
20 issued in 2011 and then it was
21 extended. Then the approval for the
22 plans that were done . I can get you a
23 copy of that .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There is no CO
• 25 or PreCO on that?
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 151
. 1 MR. KIMACK: Not that I can find.
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Do you know if
3 it qualifies?
4 MR. KIMACK: I don' t know .
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They may
6 qualify for a PreCo . I guess it was
7 demolished .
8 MR. KIMACK: To be fair, it existed
9 in 1976 . It appears to be a straight
10 line retaining wall . I do know that the
11 last wetland Trustee that was approved
12 not because of storm damage but because
• 13 they were going to take it down to
14 replace the -- and rebuild the
15 retraining wall . That is what the
16 Trustees permit reflected. In all
17 respects, it' s a retaining wall .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay.
19 MR. KIMACK: And it goes right behind
20 the storage area . The high deck comes
21 over it .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What is in that
23 storage area? Is there any electric?
24 You have to come to the --
25 MR. KOFINAS : Alexander Kofinas .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 152
• 1 There is electric in there .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else?
3 MR. KOFINAS : There is a shower there
4 but it doesn ' t work. We never used it .
5 So we don' t know .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ken, do you
7 have questions?
8 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yes . This storage
9 building, is that what' s indicated on
10 your plan as storage deck?
11 MR. KIMACK: Yes . The storage deck.
12 The deck goes right over the top. If
13 you take a look at it --
14 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yes . I have been
15 there . Been there . What is the size of
16 that storage deck?
17 MR. KIMACK: It' s about maybe 6 to 8
18 feet deep and maybe --
19 MR. KOFINAS : Maybe 4 feet, 5 feet at
20 most . From the retaining wall to the
21 entrance .
22 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Can you get me the
23 dimensions of those? The length and
24 width?
• 25 MR. KIMACK: I thought I had that .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 153
1 I can get you the measurements .
• 2 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Is there a shower
3 down there?
4 MR. KOFINAS : There is a shower but
5 it doesn ' t work. We never used it and
6 we don' t intend to use it .
7 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I just want to
9 explore all the options . We talked
10 about the issues of grading in the
11 front yard. You are proposing a 126
12 feet setback from West Road and the
• 13 property and the attached garage?
14 MR. KIMACK: That is correct . To
15 one corner .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is a
17 very, very substantial front yard
18 setback. Given the closeness of the
19 proposed retaining wall . Do you know
20 what the elevation of -- I am going
21 like this . I am looking at the houses
22 here . The pool is here?
23 MR. KIMACK: The pool and the patio
24 is 24 . 5 .
25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What I am
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 154
1 trying to figure out is , from the grade
2 below the raised patio, how high is
3 that patio?
4 MR. KIMACK: On probably the low
5 side, the closet elevation that comes
6 to the southwest corner of that , where
7 the 60 foot line is, that is roughly 18
8 feet . It' s probably 6 feet to the
9 corner .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is a very
11 high retaining wall?
12 MR. KIMACK: If you go back to the
• 13 other corner, that is about 4 1,-� feet .
14 You have to recognize that you are
15 starting at 25 from the front of the
16 house . That whole area is at 25 . It
17 becomes part of the pool structure .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What I am
19 trying to figure out is why we can' t
20 get this pool setback a little bit
21 further from the bulkhead. And I know
22 you said the grade changes and so on .
23 From field inspection does not look
24 horrendous . I don' t see what is the
• 25 huge problem. A 100 foot setback would
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 155
1 bring that pool back.
• 2 MR. KIMACK: Except that we would be
3 right on the garage of the existing
4 elevation . You have to look at this
5 from the retaining wall on the back
6 side of the property. That is going to
7 be all cut down .
8 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: You could raise
9 the property a whole foot . If you move
10 the project to West Road, you can bring
11 it up a foot .
12 MR. KIMACK: How much were you
. 13 considering moving it?
14 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: 20 feet? I don' t
15 know .
16 MR. KIMACK: 20 feet?
17 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Well , you tell me .
18 The house doesn ' t have to be at 26 . 5 .
19 MR. KIMACK: You have to look at that
20 parking court . That is really part of
21 it . When you talk about moving it back,
22 we are taking it and moving it back.
23 That whole thing is moving back.
24 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Right . Sure .
25 MR. KIMACK: Now we have a 12% grade
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 156
1 coming in .
• 2 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Not if you raise
3 everything up . You can raise it here
4 and move it back . We are trying to get
5 some more relief for the pool setback .
6 I mean, do you understand what I am
7 trying to say -- I understand what you
8 are saying? Is that feasible?
9 MR. KIMACK: If we shifted it, would
10 you consider it maybe an 8 to 10 feet
11 shift?
12 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Sure . Do any of
• 13 the Board members have any comment on
14 that?
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They would have
16 plenty of room. It' s not a hardship for
17 anybody .
18 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: That might be a
19 benefit to the pool retraining wall .
20 MR. KIMACK: I will leave it up to
21 the architect . I don' t see it as a
22 problem.
23 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Why would the
24 grade be a controlling factor?
25 MR. KIMACK: I think at looking at
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 157
1 all the drainages .
2 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay. Sure .
3 MR. KIMACK: So even if we raise it
4 up a little bit , we would still be
5 coming down the 25 to have the pitch a
6 certain way. If we move the 10 feet, I
7 think we can preserve from moving those
8 two trees . I would like to preserve
9 those trees . If we move back anything
10 further than that, they would have to
11 be removed . Mark may say that we can
12 raise it up a little bit .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Mark Schwartz
14 is doing this?
15 MR. KIMACK: Yes .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have a bunch
17 of photos from the Trustees of 2/14/12
18 that was the prior owners . Showing the
19 absence of the shed and just showing
20 earth and the rebuild of the existing
21 deck?
22 MR. KIMACK: Yes , that was the basis
23 of the permit that was issued in 2011 .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let' s see who
• 25 else in the audience would like to
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 158
1 address the application?
• 2 MR. IAVARONE : Yes . Pat Iavarone . I
3 am the western neighbor . I am adjacent
4 to that property . My grievance here is
5 this elevation of this pool and it' s
6 going to be something that is going to
7 be blocking my view . My house happens
8 to be set back substantially more than
9 the existing house and now they are
10 going to build more structures in front
11 of that . I am just asking that they
12 abide by the 75 foot setback and try
. 13 and keep the pool at a specific height .
14 I am going to imagine that they are
15 going to have a fence . So that is going
16 to be an added structure . So instead of
17 a 6 foot wall, it' s going to be a 10
18 foot wall . It doesn ' t really give a lot
19 of specifics . Regarding the driveway in
20 the front , I recently did a renovation
21 to my front, with the help of Tom
22 Samuels , I elevated my driveway and I
23 have a few steps going down to my
24 house . I invited the Board to come on
. 25 my property and take a look. I don' t
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 159
1 know if they did. It works . It gently
• 2 slopes down and it drains . I don' t see
3 it as a big issue to move the house
4 forward.
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well, we have
6 already discussed moving it closer to
7 the road. At the closest road 63 foot
8 and 70 foot on the other side .
9 MEMBER DANTES : About how far back is
10 your house, sir?
11 MR. IAVARONE : I have an aerial . My
12 house is right here . You can see where
• 13 the house sits now .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Any other
15 questions from the Board?
16 MEMBER DANTES : No .
17 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Please come
19 forward .
20 MS . BRAUTIGAN : Hi . I am Mary Lou
21 Folts Brautigan, I live at 675 West
22 Road with my husband, Charles
23 Brautigan, who is the owner of the
24 right of way of the east of the Kofinas
25 property. And my husband was not able
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 160
1 to be here today, but he just wanted to
• 2 express that he had no opposition to
3 the granting of the variances .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
5 MS . BRAUTIGAN : We didn ' t have a
6 problem with anything that they are
7 doing . However, if you do push them
8 into the front yard, I share the
9 concern with the Kofinas , to preserve
10 the trees if you can . If it needed to
11 be done that way. As to the decking and
12 the storage sheds, to me it' s always
• 13 been there . I have been there for 20
14 something plus years . There always
15 seemed to be something there . To me, it
16 didn ' t seem to be anything new then
17 what it has been permitted. I know the
18 LWRP doesn ' t like the structures , but
19 it' s not brand new . It' s been there for
20 years .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Would you say
22 it has predated zoning?
23 MS . BRAUTIGAN : My husband would be
24 able to say that . I would think it did.
• 25 I personally wasn ' t on the property at
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 161
1 that time . I ' m younger . I would like
• 2 to get that in .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So noted .
4 MS . BRAUTIGAN : I just wanted to
5 share with the Board that we did not
6 have any opposition to the granting of
7 these variances .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The law
9 requires us to grant the minimal amount
10 of relief from variances . That is why
11 we are exploring all the different
12 options . I do want to say, that
• 13 although, as your neighbors and fellow
14 homeowners , understand the concerns
15 that people have when they have the
16 benefit of a use for some time . The
17 code does not, unless it' s a scenic
18 view shed determined by the Town, the
19 code doesn ' t ( In Audible) as one of the
20 standards in evaluating . We try and
21 work it out . Anybody would want that ,
22 if it could be worked it . It has to be
23 understood that is not one of the
24 selling points that we look at in
• 25 granting relief .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 162
1 MR. IAVARONE : If I could add one
• 2 thing . The property has had a cabana
3 for at least 25 years and I have no
4 problem with that . I think they should
5 be able to have .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We are not
7 supposed to be encouraging the creation
8 of recreation of nonconformity. We are
9 supposed to get our Town to look like
10 the way the code wants us to look like .
11 So it' s a bit tough . These cabanas are
12 tough . ( In Audible . ) There is often a
• 13 lot of them that were not legally
14 there . We have to struggle with these
15 things and we do the best that we can
16 to be mindful and thoughtful . So we
17 appreciate your comments .
18 Is there anything else from the
19 Board? Michael, we can grant this as
20 alternative relief and you would have
21 to get this on the survey anyway.
22 Moving the pool, the whole thing closer
23 to West Road . What we can do is , do
24 this as an amended application and
• 25 close this subject to receipt of an
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 163
1 amended survey or site plan . Go back to
• 2 Mark . He can redraw this . Pushing this
3 10 feet , more if you can .
4 MR. KIMACK: We will take a look and
5 see where those trees are . I know 20
6 would take them down .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Or 12 feet or
8 whatever you can .
9 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: So if you can look
10 at your site plan for a second. Let' s
11 look a the bulkhead setbacks . The
12 lowest one is 52 . 2 feet to retaining
• 13 wall --
14 MR. KIMACK: I have 53 . 3 .
15 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: That is to the
16 pool?
17 MR. KIMACK: To the corner of the
18 pool . Yes .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It' s going to
20 be 63 feet on one side and 70 on the
21 other . Minimum.
22 MR. KIMACK: If we could do better,
23 than we would do better . There is a lot
24 of variables that come into place . We
• 25 will look at it .
August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 164
1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All right .
• 2 Hearing no further comments or
3 questions , I will make a motion to
4 close the hearing subject to receipt of
5 an amended site plan showing increase
6 bulkhead setback.
7 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second.
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
9 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
10 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
12 ( See Minutes for Resolution . )
13 ************************ **************
14
15 (Whereupon, the August 7 , 2014
16 Public Hearing ' s concluded at
17 3 : 16 p . m. )
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August 7, 2014 Regular Meeting 165
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2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
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6 I , Jessica DiLallo, certify that the
7 foregoing transcript of tape recorded Public
8 Hearings was prepared using required electronic
9 transcription equipment and is a true and accurate
10 record of the Hearings .
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13 Signatur *issica
14 DiLallo
15
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17 Jessica DiLallo
Court Reporter
18 PO Box 984
Holbrook, New York 11741
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20 Date : August 18 , 2014
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