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HomeMy WebLinkAboutLL-1983 #07LOCAL LAW NO. o 1983 A Local Law to amend the.Bulk and Park- ing Schedule of the Zoning Code of the Town of Southold BE IT ENACTED by the Town Board of the Town of Southold as follows: Chapter 100 of the Code of the Town of Southold (Zoning) is hereby amended as follows: Section 1. The "Bulk and Parking Schedule" applicable to the A Residential and Agricultural Districts is amended to read as follows, to wit: BULK AND PARKING SCHEDULE A Residence District Minimum Requirements Total lot area (sq. ft.) Lot width (ft.) Lot depth (ft.) Front yard (ft.) One side yard (ft.) Both side yards (ft.) Rear yard (fto) Livable floor area (sq. ftc) per dwelling unit Off- street parking space s per dwelling unit Single - Family Dwelling 80,000 200 400 50 30 50 75 85O Two- Family Dwelling 160.000 270 400 50 30 50 75 85O Maximum Pe rmitte d Lot coverage (percent) 20 20 Building height: Number of stories Feet 2-1/2 35 2-1/2 35 §2. This Local Law shall take effect immediately. WHEREAS, the Town of Southold is comprised of large areas of agricultural lands, scenic open space, parks, beaches, and a limited population density, all of which have resulted...~ a rural quality of life for its residents, and has fostered tourism, and WHEREAS, recent studies of ground water quality have indicated that the sole source of freshwater aquifer is being adversely affected by chemical pollutants, and salt water intrusion, and WHEREAS, the firm of R. P.P.W. is presently engaged in an update of the Town's comprehensive plan, and has advised the Town Planning Board that, based upon its studies to date, the preservation of the rural character of the Town, and the preservation and protection of the Town's freshwater aquifer can best be accomplished by.increasing the minimum lot size in the "A" Residential and Agri- cultural District from 40, 000 sq~ ft. to 80, 000 sq. ft., and WHEREAS, a' Local Law, entitled "A Local Law to Amend the Bulk and Parking Schedule of the Zoning Code of the Town of Southold." has been presented to the Town Board at this meeting.' NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk be and she hereby is directed to transmit a copy of this Local Law togethe~r with a copy of this resolution to the Southold Town Planning Board pursuant to the provisions of Section 100-150 of the Town Zoning Code, and further that the Town Clerk transmit a copy of said Local Law and this resolution to the Suffolk County Planning Commission pursuant to the provisions of Article XIII of the Suffolk County Charter. STATE OF NEW YORK.-. OFFICE OF THE STATE COMPTROLLER' ALBANY NEW YORK. ':.:" :', '1223~ .' EDWARD ~f. REGAN STATE COMPTFIO LLER Robert. Wasker, Attorne7 Town of $outho. ld 425 Hain St. Green~ort, NY 11944 Dear Sir/Madam: This is to advise {hat Local Law(s) No. for the Town Of Southold 5/23/83 on KRP: dal cc: Secretax7 of Stat.e 7 · of Associate Charters Unit ] 983 Ls received and (Please Use this Form for Filiug your Local Law with the Secretary of State) Text of law should be given as amended. Do not include matter being eliminated and do not use italics or underlining to indicate new matter. ~il~ of Southold Town 7 Local Law No .......................................................... of the year L9 83 A, . , to amend the Bulk and Parking Schedule of the Zoninq Code local laW ............................................................ ~ ................................................................... ~ ............................................... Town Board of the Be it enacted by the .: ................................... '{i/~,, ~ I'.~isi,tlv8 Bo.al) X(~m]( of Southold ................ as follows: Town Section 1. The "Bulk and Parking Schedule" applicable to the A Residential and Agricultural Districts is amended to read as follows, to wit: BULK AND PARKING SCHEDULE Minimum Requirements Total lot area (sq. ft.) Lot width (ft.) Lot depth (ft.) Front yard (ft.) One side yard (ft.) Both side yards (ft.) Rear yard {ft.) Livable floor area (sq. ft.) per dwelling unit Off-street parking spaces per dwelling unit Maximum Permitted Single- Family Dwelling 80, 000 200 400 50 30 5O 75 850 A Residence District Two- Family Dwelling 160, 0'00 27O ~00 50 30 5O 75 85O Lot coverage (percent) Building height: Number of stories Feet 2O 2-1/2 35 2O 2-1/2 35 Section 2. This Local Law shall take effect immediately. i~r(if additiona, l space is needed! please attach sheets of the same size ~s this and number each)"~ Page (Complete thc ,:crtification in the paragraph which applies to the filing of this local law and strike out the matter therein which is not applicable.) (Final adoption by local legislative body only.) 1 bereby certify that tbe local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No ......... 1. ....... of 19....83. of (tie ~;J4~ of..$o.uthold ................ was duly passed by the ...................... .T.o~.n..Boa.rd ................................. Town (Name of Legislative Body) on .............. May...l. 6 ................. 19..83.. in accordance with the applicable provisions of law. (Passage hy local legislative body with approval or no disapproval by Elective Chief Executive Officer,* or repassage after disapproval.) I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, desigamtedas local law No ..................... of 19 ........ Count7 City of the Town of ...................................... was duly passed by the .................................................................................. (Name of Legislative Body) Village not disapproved on ................................................ .'.19 ...... and was approved by the ....................................................... repassed after disapproval Elective Chief Executive Officer ~ and was deemed duly adopted on ........................................................ 19 ........ , in accordance with the applicable provisions of law. (Final adoption by referendum.) I hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No ................... of 19 .......... County of the City of ................................. was duly passed by the ...................................................................................... Town (Name of Legialative Body) Village not disapproved on ................................................... 19 ........ and was approved by the ............................................................... repassed after disapproval Elective Chief Executive Officer ' on ...................................................................... 19. ........ Such local law was submitted to the people by reason of a mandatory permissive referendum,and received the affirmative vote of a majority of the qualified electors voting general thereon at the special election held on ...................................................... 19 ....... in accordance with the appli- annual cable provisions of law. (Subject to permissive referendum,and final adoption because no valid petition filed requesting referendum.) 1 hereby certify that the local law annexed hereto, designated as local law No ................... of 1.9 .......... County City of the Town of ...................................... was duly passed by the ................................................................................ on (Name of Legislative Body) Village not disapproved ...................................................... 19 ........ and was approved by die ....................................................... on repassed after disapproval Elective Chief Executive Officer '~ .............................................................. 19 ......... Such local law being subject to a permissive r~ferendum and no valid pctitiou requesting such referendum having been filed, said local law was deemed duly ad(,i,ted ou ..................................................................... 19 ........ , in accordance with the applicable provisions of law. *Elective Chief Executive Officer means or includes the chief executive officer of a county elected on a county-wide basis or~ if there be none, the chairman of the county legislative body, the mayor of a city or village or the supervisor of a town, where such officer is vested with power to approve or veto local laws or ordinances. Page 2 5o (Cit) local law concerning Charter re;~sion proposed hy petition.) I hcrck> cci'til'~ that thclo, al !.m .:tm xed hereto, dozignated as local law No ..................... of 19 ........ of the City of ......................................................................... ha;h~g been submitted to referendum pursuant to the provisions of 37 of ..... ~,/uuicip,~t Ii. ine IFlule Law, alit[ !.avtng received the affirmative vote of a majority special of the qualified electors of such city voting thereon at the general election held on .................................. ................ 19 ........ became, operative. 6. (County local law concerning adoption of Charter.~ l hereby certify that the local law a,mexed hereto~ designated as Lodal Law No ....... of 19 ...... of the County of ......................................... State or' New York, having been submitted to the Electors at the General Election of November ........... 19 ........... pursuant to subdivisions 5 and 7 of Section 33 of the Muni- cipal Holne Rule Law, and having received the affirmative vote of a majority of the qualified electors of the cities of said county as a unit and of a majority of the qualified electors of the towns of said county considered as a unit voting at said general election, became operative. (lf any other authorized form of final adoption has been followed, please provide an appropriate certification.} ~ I further certify that I have compared the preceding local law with the original on file in this office and that the same is a correct transcript therefrom and of the whole of such' original local law, and was finally adopted in the manner indicated in paragraph ....... J .................... above. Cle~d~ th~ County tegislafive body, City. Town q~linage Ctgrk or designated by local legislative body Date: May 17, 1983 Judith T. Terry Town Clerk (Seal) (Certification to be executed by County Attorney, Corporation Counsel, Town Attorney, Village Attorney or other authorized Attorney of locality.) STATE OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF ..... SUEEOLK .......................... l, the undersigned, hereby certify that the foregoing local law contains the correct text and that all proper proceedings have been had or taken for the enactment of the local law annexed hereto. $ignaml'e · .R.o.b..e.rt..W.:..'T.a.s.k.e.r.,..T. qw..n..a.t.to..r .n.ey ......... Title Date: County May 17, 1983 City of ................................................................ Town Village Page 3 PUBLIC HEARING SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD APRIL 26~ 1983 7;30 P.M. IN THE MATTER O~ A PROPOSED LOCAL LAW ENTITLED~ "A LOCAL LAW TO AMEND THE BULK AND PARKING SCHEDULE OF THE ZONING CODE O~ THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. ' ...... Present: Absent; Councilman Francis J. Murphy Councilman John J. Nickles Councilman Lawrence Murdock, Jr. Councilman Joseph L. Townsend~ Jr. * * * Town Clerk Judith T. Terry. Town Attorney Robert W. Tasker Supervisor William R. Pell, III (family.illness) Justice Raymond W. Edwards (out of the country) COUNCILMAN MURPHY; I'd like to welcome you all here tonight. This is a public hearing on a proposed zoning change in the Town of Southold. First, on behalf of Supervisor Bill Pell, whose mother was taken very.ill last week, just a week ago, he is up in Maine with her right now. Hopefully she will be coming home'within a day or two. He's been back and forth here two different times. He's very sorry that he can't be here for these two hearings that we had this last two weeks, bu~ he would like to assure everybody that he will read the comments that the Town Clerk is taking. They are being all recorded and he will be well aware of what everyone has to say. With that~ I would like to ask Councilman John Nickles, who sponsored this resolution, to read the official notice. COUNCILMAN NICKLES: Thank you, Frank. "Public Notice is hereby given that there has been presented to the Town Board o£ the Town o£ Southold, Suffolk County~ New York, on the 22nd day of March, 1983, a Local Law entitled, "A Local Law to amend the Bulk and Parking Schedule of the Zoning Code of the Town of Southold". The "Bulk and Parking Schedule" applicable to the "A" Residential and Agricultural District is amended to read as follows, to wit; Page 2 - Public Hearin~~- Bulk and Parking Schedu'm'e BULK AND PARKING SCHEDULE A Residence Minimum Requirements Total lot area (sq. ft.) Lot width (ft.) · Lot depth (ft.) Front yard (ft.) One side yard (ft.) Both side yards (ft.) Rear yard (ft.) Livable floor area (sq. ft.) per dwelling unit Off-street parking spaces per dwelling unit Maximum Permitted Lot coverage (percent) Building Height: Number of stories Feet District Single- Two- Family Family Dwelling Dwelling 80,000 160,000 200 270 400 400 50 50 30 30 50 50 75 75 850 850 2 3 20 20 2-1/2 2-1/2 35 35 Copies of said Local Law are available in the Office of the Town Clerk to any interested persons during business hours. Notice is further given that the Town Board of the Town of So~thold will hold a public hearing on the aforesaid Local Law at the Southold' Town Hall, Main Road, Southold~ New York, on the 26tti day of April, 1983~ at 7:30 o'clock P.M. at which time all interested persons will be heard. Dated: April 5, 1983~ By Order of the Southold Town Board, Judith T. Terry~ Town Clerk." I.have notices from two local papers, one from the Suffolk Times in Greenport, statement saying it was published by Joan W. Gustavson~.and a like notice that it was published i.n The Long. Island Traveler by Pat Wood, Editor and Publisher.· I have a affidavit from Judith T. Terry, Town Clerk of the Town of Southold, being duly sworn says that she is over the age of twenty-one years and that on the 6th day of April 1983 she affixed the notice of which annexed printed notice is a true copy, in other words it was published on her Bulletin Board. This Local Law was referred to the County Planning Commission and to the Southold Town Planning Board·. From the Department of Planning the response was relative to this Local Law: "Gentlemen: Pursuant to the requirements of Section 1323 yo 1332.of the Suffolk County Charter~ the above referenced application which has been submitted to the Suffolk County Planning Commission is considered to be a matter for local determination. A decision of local deter~ mination should not be construed as either an approval or disapproval. Comments: The Planning Commission is supportive of such zoning amendments." Page 3 - Public Hearigg""- Bulk and Parking Schedule' From the Southold Town Planning Board to the Town Clerk: "After thorough review and discussion with regard to the proposed Local Law to amend the Bulk and Parking Schedule of the Zoning Code of the Town of Southold, the Planning Board passed the follow- ing resolution at their regular meeting held March 28, 1983: Resolved that the Southold Town Planning Board endorse the proposed Local Law to Amend the Bulk and Parking Schedule of the Zoning Code of the Town of Southold and consideration of the Town Board to place a "hold" on all "M" Zones until sufficient data is available, prior to making a determination on zone changes within the township." We have a letter from the Suffolk County Board of Health to Councilman John Nickles. "Dear Mr. Nickles: It is gratifying to hear that your town is considering measures to protect its fragile groundwater supply. Although it is difficult to quantify the effect on water supply of the proposed upzoning from one to two acres, generalities concerning the relative effects of decreasing overall density can be made. To the degree that a percentage of the land available in the town has already been subdivided at one acre or less will, of course, affect the impact of any upzoning now. Reports on groundwater have historically recognized the need for sound planning for effective groundwater management in Southold. The 1967 Malcolm Pirnie Report, "Investigation of Water Resources," stated: "The water resources of Southold are limited to an amount which does not greatly exceed present use. It is essential that Southold must employ every available means for protecting the limited groundwater supply." The most recent study, "The North Fork Water Supply Plan," prepared by ERM-Northeast, supports this conclusion and further states that in Zones 4 and 5, including the hamlets from Southold to Orient, the quantity of the fresh water supply is critical. It would appear .there is ample justification in the literature for the Town Board to consider measures to control density based on the quantity of fresh water available. Groundwater quality considerations are an equally important issue to the department, and I am certain you are well aware of the problems concerning pesticides, nitrates, organic solvents, petroleum spills and saltwater intrusion which have been documented in Southold, as well as other townships in the county. The plain fact is that any development will cause degradation of the environment, including the water supply. .The sewage and refuse produced by a household are pollutants to the environment. Many products readily available to and used by homeowners have the potential to contaminate groundwater. The decision the town faces is: What degree of degradation is acceptable? The major impact of the pro- posed upzoning would be in those areas of the town where water supply problems have been identified as being the most acute. The afore- mentioned Zones 4 and 5 of "The North Fork Water Supply Plan" and any shoreline peninsulas, such as Nassau Point and Great Hog Neck, would benefit by controlling excessive densities. It is reasonable to assume the area of prime groundwater recharge along the spine of the town would also receive a me~sure of protection from an upzoning. Other townships have enacted similar zoning, at least partially due to condern for the protection of groundwater resources.. I appreciate the opportunity to continue the dialogue between the town and my department on issues of mutual concern. Very truly yours, David Harris, M.D., P.P.H., Commissioner, Suffolk County Board of Health." Page 4 - Public Heari~'g'~''- Bulk and'Parking Schedu~'e We also have a letter from our Master iP. lanner, Raymond, Parish, Pine &Weiner to our Town Planning Board Chairman Mr. Henry Raynor, dated April 12, 1983: "Dear Henry: As you and members of the Town Board have requested we have reviewed the proposal to increase the minimum lot area for the R-A Zone throughout Southold from 40,000 square feet to 80,000 square feet per dwelling unit. On a Townwide basis this has the affect of reducing the capacity of more than 14,000 acres of agricultural and vacant developable land (i.e. not westlands, dunes, etc.) in the A-Agricultural Residential District from about 14,200 dwelling units to about 7,000 dwelling units. As we have gone through the first phase of the Master Plan process it has been clear to all of us involved that availability of potable water is a primary concern. Based on the various water studies that have been completed, particularly the most recent North Fork Water Study, it is apparent that some portions of the Town experience greater constraints in this regard than other parts of the Town. The capacity for future development, as it relates to availability of potable water, will depend not only on the quantity of water but also on policies related to how water is to be provided and treated in the future, i.e. continuation of individual wells for most areas including wells with individual treatment systems, Townwide district to test and provide treatment of individual wells, and/or central water supplies for certain teas, particularly the hamlets and the areas most threatened by contamination or salt water intrusion. These determiations will be based on the overall Master Plan that evolves from the consideration of all of the planning factors and planning goals, that are now being evaluated. Densities of proposed development are likely to vary from area to area or even within portions of the various hamlets. The Town Board has been exploring several techniques for keeping the level of development low enough so that areas that may be designated for low density or open use in the Plan will not have been committed to higher densities prior to the completion of the Plan. Also areas that have a very delicate balance between water supply and existing development will not be committed to more development than can realistically be accomodated. It is not easy to find an equitable means of achieving this objective. The instrument to do this has to be equitable and evenly applied and should assure that there will be no change from the status quo for a reasonable period of time. However, it cannot deny property owners reasonable use of property. It is fairly certain that by halving the development capacity there should be sufficient water, if properly treated, to serve that level of development. The proposal to rezone all of. the A Zone to 80,000 square feet per dwelling unit appears to achieve these objectives. Further, it is important that during the Plan preparation no rezonings take place that are likely to increase density or increase water consumption. These two actions combined will create the situation that will allow the Planning Board and its consultants and all of those involved in the Master Plan update the opportunity to proceed with certainty that the data base and overall circumstances relating to the preparation of the Plan will be essentially stable for the next 6-12 months of work. Sincerely, Stuart Turner.". We also have 319 postcards that have been received by the Town Clerk indicating individuals who oppose the two acre upzoning. I have a letter from Janice Robinson at Orient Point,.which is entered into the record,.who favors the upzoning. I have' a Page 5 - Public Heari~g-- - Bulk and Parking Schedu~ petition with ten signatures that are opposing the upzoning and the moratorium. I have a letter from John Wickham, of Cutchogue, who favors the upzoning. I have a letter from Mr. and Mrs. Edward Adams, of Orient, who favor the upzoning. I have a letter from Dr. John M. Wallman who favors the upzoning. I have a letter from the Farm Bureau to the Supervisor of Southold Town indicating that they're opposed to the upzoning. I think that concludes the file. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: You've heard the of£icial notice. What we'd like to do is open this up. We'll ask for those who'd like to speak in favor of this proposed zone change. I would like to start, just for the sake of control, out in the left rear and we'll move across the room. Speak in order. I would ask to try to not be repetitive. If one person has said it, that. you could comment that you agree, so that we could allow, really everybody here who would like to speak, the opportunity to speak. So in the left rear, Ruth? MRS. RUTH OLIVA, President, North Fork Environment Council: The Board of Directors of the N.F.E.C. support two acre upzoning in concert with a nine month moratorium, town-wide, on any new applica- tions for subdivisions. This combination of upzoning and a moratorium was accomplished very successfully by Brookhaven Town in the mid 70's and we think that can work here. The N.F.E.C. supports planned development. I don't think any o£ us want to see Southold look like Syosset. The N.F.E.C. supports housing for low income families, for our young peoplem, for our senior citizens. The N.F.E.C. supports low taxes. The N.F.E.C. supports jobs for our young people. The N.F.E'.C. supports our farmining community and will direct its efforts towards its preservation. The N.F.E.C. supports our baymen and their efforts to protect our waters. There has been so much misinformation and speculation spread around Town. I hope we can clarify some of it. The population of Southold Town, according to the LILCO 'population survey, was 16,804 in 1970 and 19,492 in 1982. We are growing. Two acre upzoning will only affect those properties that have not already been subdivided in the Agricultural-Residential Zone. Southold Town has 4700 buildable lots from one quarter acre and up. Many of these lots are not for sale, they have been bought for long or short-term investment, or by people who wish to retire here, but there are attractive afforable lots available and here are a sampling of a few of them: Fairview Park-.$15,500.00, Gardiners Bay Estates- $15,000.00, Harvest Homes Estates-S22,000.00, Oregon View Estates- $12,500.00, west side of Wells Road-S16,500.00, Sunset Knolls- $13,500.00, southwest side of Lighthouse Road-S20,000.00, Sound Crest Woods-S21,000.00, Orient By The Sea-S20,000.00. These are just some lots that have been sold in the past month. Some of these lots, or I should say, many of these lots will, of course, increase in value over the next. year or two, but I just don't see how they can be doubled in price, or what have you, over night. The cost of these lots, or any lots, will be really what the market can bear. The N.F.E.C. is acutely aware of the need for special'housing. As a member of a workshop for the Master Plan update, I can assure you that all its members, and the planning consultants, are working constructively in this area. The Town Board is working on a formula by which large one-family homes may be converted into owner-occupied two-family homes. Upzoning will not affect this. Upzoning.historically raises land values so owners of large parcels should not have to take Page 6 - Public Hearin~ - Bulk and Parking Sched~'e losses. Upz0ning does not cut the tax base, and therefore cut services. Development is always subsidized by the taxpayer, not only for additional services, but for the maintenance of roads and lighting. Young people will find a curtailment of jobs due to up- zoning. Besides agriculture tourism is one of our most important industries. We all know why the tourists come here. Our young people primarily work in the service fields or in construction. If we keep and atmosphere conducive to attracting tourists and those seeking second homes, there should be enough work for all. Yes, we may have to rezone again in the near future, when the planning consultants offer their recommendations for special zoning for environmentally sensitive areas, multiple housing, and business areas, etc. But upzoning now will slow down the race of diligenc'e by the developers until the Master Plan is updated. Most importantly, as the Master Plan is updated, ].et us work together to create a Town that will benefit the whole community, not just the special interest groups, such as the environmentalists, developers, or the business community, etc., but all of us. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you, Ruth. Jean? MRS. JEAN TIEDKE, Southold, New York: I am representing the League of Women Voters of Riverhead-Southold. The League of Women Voters supports the two acre zoning resolution together with the Town-wide moratorium. Both positions are based on a membership poll and our long term interest in and work on Town planning. The results of the poll taken this weekend, which included only our members who live in the Town of Southold: 40 members in favor of two acre zoning, 13 members opposed to two acre zoning, and 6 members who did not know. We are, however, dismayed at the Town Board's lack of clear communica- tion with the public. The Town'Board should have provided specific information on this pending action, as important as this proposal is. And RPPW, in the letter which was just read to us, put it very well. I think that this is information which the Town Board could have provided to the public. We think that the public should know the purpose of the proposed two acre zoning, where the land to be rezoned is located, the number of acres involved, the percentage of vacant land which will be affected, locations of the 4700 or so vacant lots of one acre or less which are no,t affected by this proposal, the effect, if any, on multiple zoned areas, and the effect of upzoning on applcations before the Planning Board. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you, Jean. On the left, is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor? Sir, in the rear? MR. DeWITT DAVIES, employee of the Suffolk County Department of Planning, representing Dr. Lee Koppelman, Director of the Suffolk County Department of Planning: I am going to' read a letter from Dr. Koppelman regarding the proposed action. "I regret that prior co~mnitments do not allow me to be here in person to speak in favor of Councilman Nickles excellent proposal to place the majority of priceless and irreplaceable agricultural lands in the two acre zoning category. I can think of no more important'single action that could be undertaken by the Town at this time to insure the viable and promising bright future for the Town, not only for the immediate future, but for decades to come. One does not have to stress the Page 7 - Public Hearin~ - Bulk and Parking Schedu';~e importance of preserving the water quality of the Town as the most basic and v'ital single element essential to the well-being of all the citizens of Southold. The proposed zoning change to upgrade to two acres technically could be one of the most effective means of achieving the objective of preserving the quality o£ life and at the same time preserving the utility of the sole source aquifer that supplies all of the water needs. Fortunately the Town of Southold can benefit from the experiences of the Towns of Shelter Island, Brookhaven, East Hampton and Southampton who have already taken this large measure to protect their future, the Towns of Brookhaven and East Hampton successfully sustained challenges both in the New York State Supreme Court and Federal District Court as to the correctness of their action. I personally believe that the Town of Southold, relative to the environmental issues related to up- zoning, is in an even stronger position than Brookhaven and East Hampton. Therefore, the proposal should easily withstand attacks from any quarter. I wish to compliment Councilman Nickles and his colleagues on the Town Board for their courage, their forth- right thinking, and encourage the earliest possible passage of the issue. I pledge my personal and professional support to the Town's efforts in any qay .that the Town feels would be useful. Sincerely, Lee E. Koppelman, Director of Planning, Suffolk County Planning Commission." Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: On the left, is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of two acre zoning? Sir? MR. PAT LYONS, Orient, New York: We are here tonight to make our views known to the Town Board and hopefully help them in.shaping our future. The problems the Board must grapple with are complex and difficult, but they have chosen, rightfully so, to deal with them, in spite of all the pressure and controversy. It would be easier to ignore the need to plan for our future, but it would be unsafe. Our problems need a truthful and healthy discussion and I am disappointed that certain ads placed by certain citizen's groups, so called, has sought.to confuse and mislead rather than enlighten and educate. The evidence has already been presented and it is overwhelming. We need the two acre Upzoning and the Town-wide moratorium and we need it now. The people who really are affected the most by what is being decided here tonight are not here. In my views they're my children, they're your children, and your grand- children. When they look around some twenty to forty years hence, at this special place, will they see a land that's spoiled by over- development? Will the productive and necessary farms be but a memory and fading photographs? Will their generation be plagued by solution-related illnesses? Will they say that we here tonight had no right to give away their heritage? No matter how much money was made by so little few, will they say that they deserved better of us? Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: speak in favor? Is there anyone else on the left would like to MS. STEPHANIE HOLLYMAN, Greenport, New York: I have Harbor View Spirits in Greenport and I'm going to speak for two people. Janice Robinson is hoarse, or stage ;~fright, so I'm going to read her letter Page 8 - Public Hearin~~ - Bulk and Parking ScheduZ'e that's been sent to you. Do you mind if I read it aloud to the room? You have a copy of it. Is that okay for the record? COUNCILMAN MURPHY: It's on the record. MS. HOLLYMAN: So would it be repetitive for me to read it? COUNCILMAN MURPHY: to the Town Board. up to you. It would be. This is a hearing for information This is all considered part of the record. It's MS. HOLLYMAN: Okay, well~ I think it's well written, so~ if you don't mind--- But first of all I'd like to speak for me as a business person. I wear many hats~ but this evening I think I can best serve the purpose by speaking as a business person, and I think that it's good business sense to be for t. he whole issue. I think that--I'm a new-comer to the community, I've only been here, what, a year and a half or two years~ I don't feel I have any right at all to say or really tell farmers what to do or whatever, but at the same time I do pay taxes~ I do plan to stay here and I do have strong feelings, and I think for business that the whole thing would be very good, and that's all I'll say as far as that. But I'll read Janice's letter. "Dear Board Members: Your position is not to be envied. You are being called upon once again to be "the Wise Men" in planning our future here on the North fork. As part of the silent majority I feel the need to mention the obvious--despite the fact that only 18 people spoke at last Tuesday!s hearing, all the people "had something to say". Some of us are just less comfortable with a microphone than others." To say the least. "I don't believe many of us have access to all the information necessary to make an intelligent decision regarding the complexities of the water situation on the North Fork~ or how to most creatively and fairly deal with the plight of our farmers. We must protect our water. We must preserve our precious w.etlands and farmlands as open space. I believe we need to listen carefully to the experts who would, contrary to the so-called "Concerned Citizens", not be driven merely by self-interest. It's time we worked together for the well being of all~ and the time to act is now. The well driller who wpoke at last Tuesday's meeting suggested we "sit on our hands". Most of us realize after about ten minutes they tend to.become numb and considerably less efficient. From various comments I've overhead, I think some confusion exists in regard to the larger and far reachingissues concerning upzoning. Availability of .smaller parcels of.land is likewise often confusing to some who don't realize that about 4700 existing lots would not be affected by any upzoning. This would more than take care of "graduating classes", and for a number of years to~ come. As for some of 'the other tasteless barbs designed to instill felar into North Fork residents by some opposing upzoning, I believe we need to educate the public so they might better understand the many ways in.which upzoning will help us on the North Fork. I hope tha~ if a'referendum is held on this issue the Board will hold an lnformatzonal meeting.with experts - ! · who can provide answers and factual zn~ormat~on before voters an be expected to vote intelligently on thisl important issue. In addition~ such information should be available in our local newspapers." Almost done. "I hope you will support upzonihg in some manner, in conjunction with a townwide moratorium until the u~dating of the master plan is Page 9 - Public tIeari~'~" - Bulk and Parking Schedu~'e implemented. We cannot wait until November to act. Such action of course only covers the bare necessities. Anything less would leave us in the same position as the gir~ who prances down the ramp in the fashion show wearing only her jewelry. Very truly yours, Jance Robinson., Orient Point." COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else out in the rear who would like to comment? Sir? MR. MARTIN TRENT, Orient~ New York: I think you all know that personally and professionally I'm in favor of the !wo acre upzoning. I would just like to say at this time that I don't think a referendum on the issue is necessary. I think what you've already heard tonight and the petitions that you have been presented with, I think 3200 signatures.for and 700 against would reflect any referendum held held now. Be it three to one or four to one, whatever the margin, the people of the Town want it. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else outside? Come in, Dave. MR. DAVID KAPELL, Greenport, New York: I'm a resident of 143 Sixth Street, Greenport, New York. I also have a real estate office at 400 Front Street, Greenport, New York. I appear before you in two capacities tonight. I'm going to make my first presentation as an agent fo'r an individiual who has a subdivision'pending before the Planning Board. This is neither a comment for nor against, it's a comment about implementation, if and when this amendment is passed. And I'll give you a copy of the letter. It's addressed to the Town Board, Town of Southold, Main Road. "Gentlemen: I am writing to you in my capacity as agent for Mr. Herbert R. Mandel, owner Of property located on the Main Road in East Marion, N.Y. Mr. Mandel has currently an application pending before the Town Planning Board.for a major sub- division of this parcel known as the Dzenkowski Farm. Inasmuch as the Town Board is considering enactment of two acre zoning require- ments for properties such as that of Mr. Mandel, we respect£ully suggest that implementation of the new requirements, if approved, not apply to projects already having received sketch plan approval from the Planning Board. It would not be reasonable to place the burden of this proposed change in requirements on applicants who have worked in good faith, at substantial cost and over a long period of time to comply with existing zoning requirements. Mr. Mandel has expended substantial sums of money which would be lost to him were implementation of the proposed zoning amendment to apply to his pend- ing subdivision application. Mr. Mandel has further asked me to state that he would consider himself both damaged and aggrieved were his proposal required to comply with two acre zoning." COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Dave', I asked for comments £or. MR. KAPELL: Excuse me? COUNCILMAN MURPHY: I asked ~or comments in favor. MR. KAPELL: This is neither for nor against. However, as an individual I would like to speak in favor of the enactment of the two acre amendment. I'd like to cite certain benefits that I feel Page 10 - Public Hear~f~g - Bulk and Parking SchedUle would accrue if the amendment were enacted as proposed. One, and most importantly insofar as I'm concerned, because I think it affects ail the other arguments, is a general reduction in density town-wide. Currently we have a population of about 20,000 people in Southold Town. We've heard several times that there are 4700 building lots available in Southold Town now that are all one acre or less, or presumably most of them are one acre or less. In addition, Raymond, Parish, Pine &Weiner stated that if all the available land that is currently available for subdivision, were developed as one acre lots, we'd have an additional 14,000 lots, and if it were developed as two acre lots, we'd have 7,000 lots. What I'd like to do is simply point out the impact that development of all those lots which has taken place in numerous communities that at one time had large spaces of open ]and, how this would impact on the population of Southold Town. Right now we have approximately 20,000 people in the Town. If you assume 'an average family of three people, which I think is close to the national average size family, 4700 existing lots, if they were developed, would .result in an increase in the population of 14,000 people. If one acre zoning were allowed to continue and the 14,000 lots that could be developed, with the undeveloped land and remains, were developled, you'd have an increase in population of 42,'000 people in Southold Town. That would bring the entire, population of Southold Town to 76,000. That's three times the population that's here now. Personally I really don't want to see that, and although the two acre zoning will only reduce that amount by. a certain portion, it nonetheless has an affect on the correct direction as far as I'm concerned. The other impact--the things t'hat will result from--how we'll benefit from the decreased density will be in a reduction in the demand on water resources, which is a well publicized problem. A reduction in the demand on services that are supplied by this town government, which should, if experience speaks in western Suffolk County, result in a downward pressure on real estate taxes. And maybe most importantly, insofar as a lot of people are concerned, expecially people like me in the real estate business, it should result in an increase in property values, as is pointed out in other areas where two acre zoning has been implemented. I want to go back, however, for.one minute and make myself really clear on one point, and that is there are a lot of people who have applications before the Town now who have expended a lot of time and a lot of money, assuming that we had a zoning ordinance that. could be counted on, and most of these people have acted on good faith, and I think that to allow this amendment to affect applications that have been before the Planning Board for a long period o£ time would be an injustice and unfair. I think you have plenty of time. There's not the--the fact is in real estate business, there's not that much demand for any of these lots, and I don't believe that it would affect this argument substantially to allow those people who have made some progress, such as sketch plan approval before the Town Planning Board, be allowed to continue with their one acre applications. Thank you very much. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. In the rear? MR. GARRETT STRANG, Mattituck, New York: Good evening. I live in Mattituck and I practice architecture here in Southold. I have to go on record this evening as being in favor of this upzoning, for several reasons behind that. Primarily from a professional point of view I · Page ll - Public Heari~ - Bulk and Parking Sched~'Ze think it's definitely a. must right now. I view it, though, as a interim measure until the Master Plan can be completed. Hopefully when this Master Plan is completed it will supersede the zoning and will provide for several of the following items: Number one, I hope it will separate the agricultural zone from the resident±al zone. In this way existing farmland, which may be conducive to residential development--excuse me, may not be conducive to residential development due to environmental sensitivity, can be preserved and remain unbuild upon. In addition~ I would hope that selected two acre zoning in areas where lower density is a must, due to the avail- ability of water, would be implemented. One step further in this process would be to create areas where selected one acre, as well as hal£ and quarter acre zoning, would be adopted. This would, I think, allow for increased density where it can be effective without adverse effects on our water supply. It will also be a solution in which we can protect the resources, and at the same time provide building parcels affordable to those desiring to live in Southold Town, but financially incapable, or not desirous of two acre parcels. With respect to the Master Plan I'd also like to take this one step further. Another important consideration is the recent increase in applications for change of zones in a downward nature, this being multiple family I am addressing at this point in time. It is my position that no approval for change of zone be granted at this time on those applications. The Master Plan is costly, although necessary, investment in Southold's future. To entertain and approve any additional down-zone changes prior to completion of this Master Plan, would defeat its purpose and make an extravagant waste of time, money, and effort. In conclusion, I think it is now the time to be progressive in a conservative fashion and I propose that two acre zoning be adopted as a temporary solution to the immediate situation which will allow the Master Plan to become the permanent vehicle for well-planned growth and development in our Town. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Is there anyone else in the rear of the room who would like to comment in £avor? MS. JULIA BROWN, Orient, New York: I'd just like to speak in favor of both the moratorium and the upzoning until the Master Plan has been implemented. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else in the rear? MRS. RONNIE WACKER, Cutchogue, New York: I just want to tell you a little story. A week or so ago I was in Nassau visiting a doctor, and he asked me how are things out in Cutchogue and Southold? I said, "Oh, pretty good. We're experiencing a lot of rapid develop- ment and we're afraid of overdevelopment while we're waiting for a Master Plan to be completed, but otherwise it's alright." And he said, "You know, I used to go out there. I used to go to the East End a lot. The family and I would go out on a weekend and maybe we'd stay overnight, maybe we'd just drive out.for the day, but ii was like going into another world." The farms and the open space was something that was so totally dif£erent from where they were, that it was a re]ease for them. I wonder--oh, what he went on to say was, that they don't bother to come out much anymore because he said, "Why should we go out. We see the same shopping centers Page 12 - Public Heari~ig - Bulk and Parking SchedU~ie out there." I think he really was thinking more about Hampton Bays and the South Side. "We see the same shopping centers, we see the same 7-Elevens , the same MacDona]ds and Burger Kings." He said, "We don't need that. We've got that right here at home." And I wonder by how many times his statement might be multiplied. And I'd like to know where is it written that we must surrender our Town to people who say they want to come live here. Why not wait until we know exactly what we want our Town to be and then say, Okay, welcome. We will fit you in and accomoda~e all of us together. So I hope that you will enact the two acre upzoning and moratorium. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. would like to speak? Is there anyone else in the rear who MRS. SANDRA DIETZ, Orient, New York: I own business property and live in Orient and I am in favor of the upzoning. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else out in the rear? MS. ELLEN MORGAN, Greenport, New York: I live on Bay Avenue in Greenport. I'm a real estate broker and I haven't got a prepared speech, but I have given the matter some thought'. What I'd like to say is, I'm in back of the two acre zoning a hundred percent and most of the people in my office are. 'I am really concerned about what's happening. I don't want us to have another Wading River and I don't want to see another Levittown. I don't want any of that to happen out here. I think the quality of life--I've only lived here for six years, but I think the quality of life that you have given me is terrific and I'd like to g~ve it on to my children. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone here in the middle who would like to speak? MS. JANE HAITE, Orient, New York: I just want to say I'm for this two acre zone in order to delay development until we have the Master Plan, otherwise it seems almost useless to have the Master Plan, and I know this will hurt.people, but I think it will hurt the whole Town more if we don't wait for the Master Plan. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else here in the middle who would like to comment in favor? MRS. ESTELLE ADAMS, Orient, New York: I'd just like to speak to a couple of points that have already been brought up. One when Jean Tiedke, who was representing the League of Women Voters spoke about the education of the people as to the various parts of this and the various thinking behind it. I could give you a few examples of what people have come up to me and spoken about when this.has been brought up. One says, "I own a home and I also own a lot and I want to sell my lot, but now I won't be able to because it's not two acres." Another one said, "There won't be any lots to buy less than two acres~" and others have said they didn't realize that at any other time would there be an opportunity to reevaluate our zoning except the fear of having it go to larger and larger parcels, that needs of people would never be taken into consideration. When some of these misconceptions were cleared, then the friends who spoke to me Page 13 - Public Heari~~ - Bulk and Parking Schedule agree with me that they are in favor o£ two acre zoning £or this particular urgent need. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else here in the middle would like to comment in favor? How about over here on the right? Anyone like to make some comments? MS. VIRGINIA MOORE, Southold, New York: Two acre zoning's opponents say they're concerned about a consequent rise in taxes. "It will increase the tax burden on our schools," say their ads. "(It) will chop the tax base in half." Yet the less intensively land is developed, the less it costs the town, and vise versa. A prime example of vice versa is New York City, with one of the highest tax rates in the country. And what about our neighbor Wading River; which recently increased its tax base with a power plant only to £ind the cost o£ new services £ar outreaching the new tax income. Let's look at some figures. In the '70's East Hampton had three big chunks o£ land they had to decide what to do with. Develop them intensively? Put them into small lot zoning? One acre zoning? Two acre zoning? Buy them and leave them as open space? With help from the Nassau-Suffolk Planning Commission, Dr. Leon Hammer, an East Hampton resident, put together figures on all five land use schemes. Does development bring money to government and reduce taxes, Dr. Hammer asked? "We...show the opposite to be true," he concludes. Dr. Hammer's income figure was the average tax then paid per dwelling unit by given lot size, multiplied by the number of those dwelling units the land would hold. Of known town expenses, roughly half went for school costs, $1100.00 a year per pupil on the average over the twelve years of a child's schooling. Yet when development brings its bigger taxes, his calculator showed the land still doesn't make money because o£ increased expenses. Expense depends partly on the average o£ how many children each household will send to school, so Dr. Hammer figured three ways, no children (a retirement conmlunity), one child every second household (a mixture of young and old), and the national figure of 1..7 children per house- hold. He £ound that for the 1400 acres Curtiss-Wright proposed for development, at that time, a mixture of multiple, half acre and commercial-industrial building would bring in three million dollars in taxes. Sonds like a windfall, doesn't it? But even with no children, expenses would be ten million, and with 1.7 children per house, nearly twenty million, leaving a de£icit to be spread mong town taxpayers of. between seven and seventeen million dollars. With two acre zoning the tax income would be less than a million dollars. Yet the expenses among the three kinds o£ households would range between 1.1 and 2.2 million dollars, leaving an average town-wide de£icit less than one-sixteenth that o£ the more intense development. A cheaper plan, he found, would be to leave 40~ of the land in open space and develop 60~ o£ it as two acre plots. The cheapest of any, though, would be £or the town to buy the land and leave it as open space, taking it of£ the tax rolls altogether. Comparable figures on another chunk of land, the 570 acre Bell estate in Amagansett, show that the average difference in cost to the town between putt'lng it into one acre and two acre zoning drops £ro $740,000.00 a year. to $106,000.00. But the best news'of all comes ~rom a 130 acre parcel in Springs. Whereas the zoning then current, for 2000 square lots, would have cost the town an average 5.4 million dollars a yiear when developed, to zone it £or two acres would actually have meanlt a Page 14 - Public Heari~g - Bulk and Park'ing Sched'~e profit to the town of $60,000.00 a year. So, when you compare the property tax income, to a town with its outlay for expanded services, you can see that development just about always takes more from the town than it gives, with less intensive development taking that much less. And yet probably within the next hour you're going to hear once more how we can't a£ford to remove our land from the tax rolls. .As for that, Dr. Hammer's standard figures show that a town could afford to buy its open space, zone it to two acres net density (perhaps even giving the land £or cluster housing to the town's low- income families while saving the rest £or farming) and still, he says, "save tremendous amounts o£ money." One thing seems certain. With- out two acre zonin~ and the moratorium pending a.decend land-use planj Southold taxpayers are going to be bankrolling an epidemic of develop- ment for years to come. Yet these proposed land-use instruments can actually help older people and poorer people and younger people on modest incomes to keep their houses whether they own them or rent them, simply by keeping our taxes, .and their rents, down to manageable size. Gentlemen, it's up to you. Thank you. I'd like to have Dr. Hammer's pamphlet, "The 'Best Buy' is Open Space", included in the record of this hearing (Attachment I). COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Would you like to speak, next to her? MS. TERRY HARNAN, Southold, New York: Gentlemen: Let us address the problem o£ affordable housing for the young, the senior citizens and the poor. A look at the real estate ads shows many houses being offered in $110,000.00 to $275,000.00 dollar range--obviously not affordable £or the group we are. talking about--but not on two acres of property, either. Size of the lot had very little to do with those high prices. In Southold Town today, as you heard before, we have available 4700 lots in pieces of one acre or less in size. Presumably these lots could provide 4700 houses in the medium-low price range if size of lot were the chief criteria. The year-round population of Southold Town is about 20,000 people. .Le's say three quarters of those people, or about 15,000,r already live in and own their own homes. So that leavea a maximum o£ about 5000 people presumably still looking. Those 5000 could easily be. taken care of on a portion of the 4700 lots in one acre or less now availa'ble. Tow acre zoning would not interfere with that in the slightest. The Master Plan, when it is completed and implemented about two.years from now, will have a built-in section specifically referring to the groups of elderly, young people and the poor, since the Master Plan is expected to recommend certain areas as best suited for such housing devlopment-- areas closets to public transportation, water supply, utility connections, shopping £acilities, etc. But the Master Plan must also take into I account the need for open space, for agricultural lands, for preserva- tion o£ natural resources, which are imperative to consider to benefit everybody in Southold Town, ~ncluding the group whose needs we are addressing. If the two acre zoning does not pass in order to preserve some o£ this open space there will be very little land left £or thel Master Plan to work with. In ~act, there is only one third of all the lands left in Southold Town to be even considered for two acre zonng at this moment~ and so this would seem a wise holding action I for the Town to take. Why is housing so expensive today? Prices are dependent now, as they've always been, on the value the owner and real estate agent place on it, and consideraiions as to its Page 15 - Public Hearlh'g - Bulk and Parking Sched&f[e location and current desirability. You'gentlemen of the Town Board are too knowledgeable not to know that, and not to realize that there is no magical connection between the killing o£ two acre zoning and the moderating of prices. It is cruel to mislead the young, the senior citizens and the poor into thinking so. Scare tactics should not be used to deny the two acre zoning that we all need to make the quality of life better for all of us. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else here on the right? Sir? mr. james ]oughlin, Southold, New York: The upzoning is under attack all over the United States. There are cases pending in Jersey and in Westchester. Try was economic in many respects, discrimination is in the field. discriminating. As Dr. Johnson "Patriotism is the last refuge another word for patriotism. H because I'll tell you, i£ we do to de~eat upzoning, and the argument but now another thing has been entered, Thatts the claim, if we upzone we're --Bosw~ll's Dr. Johnson said once, of a scoundrel," or maybe you can use owever$ if we want to get mixed up-- not upgrade then there's going to be a lot o£ publicity about Southo~d being a very very upbeat Town, and we will have to bear a great maay problems I can tell you. Now, as far as having zoning beat the r~stric$ions--that is, a change in plans be£ore the zoning takes e£fect.| In New York we have the old Equitable Building at 120 Broadway. They did bSat the zoning in 1916. They blocked a whole square block o~ lightl~n lower Manhattan. As far as economic loss by upgrading, that's be~n true of all zoning and it must be true because the land b~longs|tlo the people and if the public has through its police power th~ righ~ to regulate it. Land in New York State is a ? It's owned by|t.he sovereign. We only have the use £or it. So I ask you to upgrade the land, not get involved in a big sociological problem. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. ~aptai~ Drum? CAPTAIN HENRY W. DRUM, Mattituc[, New York: I have a farm in Mattituck. I strongly support ~he To~ Board's recommendation of two a~re zon oppose a Town moratorium. In my opini and I would prefer that the money be ~ fighting the law suits, to supp~rt a S Program. As I say, I styongly ;upport n resolution and the Planning lng and I just as strongly on a moratorium is not legal sed--instead of the Town. Board outhold Town Farm Preservation the two acre zoning. I would like to say that this past two ~ that were sold on the North For] nursery stock. In my opinion i~ zoning would decrease the value that this--our open spaces--the think because the two acre.zoni~ I know it will add to the value COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you, ~ears ~ know of about twenty farms for Mineyards, horse farms and ; is.w~o~g to say that two acre of ou~ farms. I feel that the reason reasonls, the farms had been sold--I ~g is jluSt going to add to the value. of my farm. Thank you. [enry. Anyone else over on the right? MR. ANDRE CYBULSKI, Cutchogue, ~ew York,: I am a farmer in Cutchogue, and if it ever stops raining lo2g enough I plan to farm th~s year in the near future. · I have discussed theI proposed two acre zoning with fellow farmers, local bankers and other informed residents of our Page 16 - Public Heari'~g - Bulk and Parking SchedUle Town and I am certain this proposal would be good for Southold Town. Historically upzoning in most cases has increased land value on a long-term basis. To remain rural and attractive, Southold Town needs to preserve its farmland, but we shouldn't do it only by upzoning. We should offer a fair, workable farm preservation program. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else here on the right? Sir? MR. ~RANK McINTOSH, Greenport, New York: This is an absolutely incredible part of the world. My work takes me throughout the world and I've chosen Greenport as a place to live. I support two acre zoning and I thank you for this land here. For those of you who've lived here, it must be a privilege. It's a great privilege to be a part of it now. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Sir? MR. GEORGE SMITH, East Marion, New York: I have nothing to add to what has been said by the proponents of the two acre zoning, except to voice my support for it. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. MR. JONATHAN WIGGINS, Greenport, New York: I'm in favor o£ the two acre zoning for all of the reasons that you've all talked about here tonight, with one more point that hasn't been mentioned. Upzoning the area will lead. to less density and less density will lead to less confusion in the event o£ a nuclear mishap. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else here on the right would like to make a colmment in favor? Frank Bear? MR. FRANK BEAR, Southold, New York: So many misleading statements have been made against the proposal for two acre zoning, that it's hard to know where to start to set the record straight, to show, in effect, that the real estate people and their allies in the so-called Southold Town Citizens Committee, are not crying on behalf of the young, the poor, the old and the farmer, but to protect what they may conceive as a threat to their own self interests. When many of these same people, under the same leadership, were calling themselves the Stifling Environmental Committee, their hearts were not bleeding for the non-rich and our farmers, they were asking if it would not be better to build houses over the entire Town and thus save water-- some o£ the water that the farmers use for irrigation. Now, at a public hearing last week, we heard David Mudd, the winer, grower and vineyard consultant, speak on behalf of the Southold Town Citizens Committee, saying that we don't need to worry about our water supply, because according to him and his allies, the recently completed North Fork Water Supply Study says there is plenty of water. Well, that's not exactly the report's message. It speaks instead of precautions that must be taken as regards both the quantity and quality of our water. The report begins by saying: "Water supply problems on the North Fork of Long Island are severe. Shallow, thin groundwater I aqai£ers are extensively impacted by contamination from agricultural Page 17 - Public Hear~ - Bu~k and Parking Sched~'le chemicals, primarily nifrates and pesticides, and are threatened 'by saltwater intrusion from over-pumpage. Increasing pressures for development which will result in accelerated population growth will further stress the water supply aquifers." The report addresses the water quantity question only within the budget areas--those areas in whcih our underlying water table is two feet or more abo~e mean high water. In those areas, according to the report, there is sufficient water to accomodate development, except in Orient. But what about the areas between the two foot level to the shorelines? What can happen there, indeed, has happened. Overpumpage results in saltwater intrusion. The Southold Town Planning Board would like to know now where the one foot level ends, and has received permission from the Town Board to spedn $2500.00 to find out. And.what would result from extending the water budget areas to the one foot contour? Nobody knows. Two acre zoning, along with a moratorium on all new major and minor subdivisions would help protect those areas until we have a Town Master Plan--new plan, and rezoning, based on the Town Plan update which is no~ going on. But water quality is another problem addressed by the Nort,h Fork Water Supply Study. The report says: "The trend to resident:iai development, from agriculture, would result in a slight overall de,clin.e in average daily water use over the planning period, but the :demand for uncontaminated, potable water will increase." In the Town of Southold, seventeen percent of the 1121 well.s tested had nitrate cont~nination ab6v$ drinking water standards. Eleven percent of 3160 wells sampled exceeded the health guideline for aldicarb, or Temik. Other agricultural chemicals found include carbo£uran, dacthal, dichloropropane, oramyl and dinoseb. Some of these may be around for up to a century. How is the Town going to handle this problem? The report suggests a.town-wide water district, in addition to the present Captain Kidd and Greenport systems, with arrangements for supply, and treatment where necessary, for both individual wells and local supply systems for new develop- ments. There still is a long way to go on these suggestions. Again, these matters are being considered in the process of the Town Plan update. Tow acre zoning, along with the town-wide moratorium will buy time until we know what rezoning will result from a new Town Master Plan. Two acre zoning may not and need not be the final answer. Zoning can be changed to conform to a new plan. Let's take the heat off the planners so they can study, recommend and implement without developers breathing down their necks. Meanwhile, we are not sure how the present rezoning proposal will affect sub- divisionlprojects now before the Town Planning Board, but they certainly will be affected. Of course, proposals will have to be redrawn to conform with two acre zoning. But then they could move ahead quickly. Rezoning by itself will temporarily retard the present rush toward development, but it should be fortified with the moratorium. I urge the members of this Board to vote unanimously for both the two acre zoning and the moratorium. Many of. us are hoping that partisanship can be avoided in this important and sensitive matter. If you vote for both, the citizens of Southold Town will benefit, and this Town Board, and each of its members, will gain the respect of the people who are depending on you to do what is best for them. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Is there anyone else here on the right who would like to speak in favor? Sir? Page 18 - Public Heari"."~g - Bulk and Parking Sched~u~e MR. ROBERT HENNESSY; I am only a resident o£ Southold for the past one and a half years and I'm here to speak in favor of the two acre zoning. I come here because I happened to have found Southold and I love. I make no apologies for this. I was in the Marine Corps in Korea and I was'a member of the New York City Police Department, and the reason I'm not a member of the City Police Department is because I was shot twice and I am on dis- able--I am disabled by the Police Commissioner. I bought the Lester Little, Paradise Woods Studio, and that land~ because of your one acre zonin~ has been raped and desecrated. I have to build 800 feet of road'through beautiful timber because of this desecration. It is a very serious matter. You have given sixty feet of waterfront because of this one acre zoning. If there were two or more acres, this would not have happened, and I strongly urge, as an outsider--as an insider~ I love this p~ace. It's almost like when you adopt a child--I've adopted your area. Give this two acre zoning your strongest consideration. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Thank you, sir. Is ther~ any final comments in favor? MRS. DOROTHY BERKS~ Orient, New York~ First of all, I'm for both upzoning and the moratorium~ the town-wide moratorium. We've heard a lot, and I expect we'll hear a lot more tonight about people who want to close the Town gate at the borderline and I'm not as concerned about that as I am with another bromide that says, "Don't close the barn door after the horse is out." Our Town Board~ since December~ has passed four resolutions, two Republican, two Democrat~ and we've moved on three of them. The Town Board doesn't move quickly. It doesn't move without thinking care£ully what it does and it has examined fhe facts that have caused this Town, as well as Brookhaven Town, Southampton Town, East Hampton Town, to move and I think we ought to listen carefully. I think, however~ that the Town Board should communicate better what the ramifications are of moratoria and of the upzoning. There are a lot of confused people who don't understand what upzoning means, they're frightened. They have reason to be frightened, because they are concerned about farmland, they're concerned about all the things that we read in the paper, and they've been allowed to be frightened' by people who encourage their fears. If the Town Board can hold a public information program, I think it would bene£it everyone, and I believe that a lot of the dissention that we've heard and may hear tonight~ can be assuaged. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. MR. MANFRED KOERNER, Southold, New York~ My family and I support the two acre upzoning and moratorium. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Thank you. Any other further comments in favor? Ruth, would you hold it short? Yes, go ahead. MRS. RUTH OLIVA: I would just like to read one letter and hand in ten more. This is an open letter to the members of the Southold Town Board. "A prior engagement prvents me from attending the public hearing on the proposal.for two acre upzoning in the agricultural/ residential districts. Since I did not. comment at last week's Page 19 - Public Hearl~..g - Bulk and Parking Schedk..~ hearing on the moratoria proposals, I wish to record my views at this time. I congratulate the members who introduced these proposals for recognizing that Southold Town, as we know it, is threatened, and for having the courage to initiate.these measures. You are defending an endangered species whose value is only coming to be recognized as it nears extinction: that is, a small township that combines farms, villages and open space in a mix that adds up to a stable, health, safe way of life for a variety of people. Like our prized osprey, whose eggs were weakened by pesticides before anyone realized what was happening, our community is vulnerable to destruction from a combination of outside forces'and internal complacency. For these reasons, I support both the town-wide moratorium and the two acre zoning, pending enactment of the updated Master Plan, which we ali hope will address the real needs of Southold Town. Development of the kind now threatening to overwhel Southold, such as vacation condominiums and self-contained second-home communities with quaint names, will not meet the housing needs of the current residents of Southold. It will instead bring an influx of prople whose demands on the Town's services will more than offset any money they bring in. It is these developments, not upzoning, that will raise our taxes. Experience elsewhere teaches us, in fact, that upzoning will almost certainly enhance ali property values. Other communities have also learned that farming and subdivisions make uneasy neighbors. Studies have shown that tourists come to Southold Town because of the peaceful, healthy, rural atmosphere. That is also why'many of us who own homes here have. chose this community. If you fail to act now to preserve the very essence of this place, you may lose not only the farms and shellfishing, but also many of us who have come to Southold in recent years, adding to its stability and financial of health.with an infusion of mo~ey that we spend on everything from sailboats to plumbing, and an attachment to the Town that makes us treat it with care and concern. I urge you not to be intimidated by the threats of real estate groups and developers and their lawyers, or swayed by the angpy rhetoric and preposterous allegations of short-sighted people motivated by their own immediate self-interest. It is in your power to preserve Southold Town as a model of the very best of what a rural, small-town community can be. The rest of us ware watching you, with our fingers crossed. Sincerely yours, Anne S. Hopkins, Orient." (Attachment I.I - eleven letters from residents in favor of two acre zoning and moratorium.) COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? Bill Grigonis? MR. WILLIAM GRIGONIS, Southold, New York: Gentlemen of the Board, I'm Chairman of the Southold Town Democratic Party, resident of Southold. Many years ago as a teenager I can remember going to a meeting in Southold High School with my father and some of the other local farmers when zoning was first proposed by a group of gentlemen, completely different from the gentlemen you have here tonight, and I believe Mr. Wickham of the Planning Board was in a different group at the time. At that time we had, I would say, approximately 80 to 90~ of the people there opposed to zoning. We had, through the foresight of that Town Board zoning imposed, or brought to us in Southold Town. I hate to think what would have happened if the Board had not had the courage at that time to push zoning. We had half Page 20 - Public Heari'~g - Bulk and Parking Sched~me acre zoning. In a few years they saw the need for acre zoning. Acre zoning came to us. Farmland did not depreciate in value, it increased in value. We kept building and Southold kept--people kept coming to us. Some of the young £ound homes. I know it's hard £or the young. I can remember when I was married and my first home was built with a 4~ GI mortgage right after I got out of the Marine Corps. It wasn't easy. As we raised a family, we built a second home and the mortgage was at 7~. Now it's what? Twelve, thirteen, fourteen percent? This is the problem. It's not the problem with that piece of land, it's your inflation that's causing it. Your houses, are $70,000.00 to $75,000.00. So you can't blame that on the land. What we are concerned with is that the farmer that owns this land gets his equity out of it. I think that all of us, myself included, if we feel we want Southold as it is or try to keep it £airly as it is, we should be willing to bear part of the brunt. I feel that this fall you should have a Farmlands Preservation Program and this committee should talk to the farmers and if the people fee] you want it this way you have to be prepared to pay a little bit to keep it this way. And lastly I would like to say that there have been many changes of the Board over the past years, been changes in zoning, and changes in Southold Town, but I hope to God that this can be non-political this fall and I'll do my best to keep it so that both parties can work together for the best of Southold. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Is there anyone else would like to speak in favor? If not, I would like to open it up for those would like to speak in opposition to this proposed local law. I would like to start over in the left rear and ask you to come up again and identify yourself at the mike and make your comments td the Board. Anyone over here on the left? MR. REGINALD HUDSON, Greenport, New York: I'm a resident of Greenport and Southold Town and furthermore my grandmother was'a Hallock and four Hallock brothers established Southold Town, so I'm not in favor of doing anything that would hurt Southold Town. I've heard so many things here tonight. I wonder where you find those damn crystal, balls? Because. they made a lot of co~ents here that I know some of them cannot be implemented. But what I'm actually here for--I've been on the school board for about thirty years and I know assessed valaation and what it means to a community, especially people that have to pay school taxes, and when I hear some of the £igures--- what's happening in East Hampton and all these places don't have a damn thing to do with Greenport in my book, but I'd like to say this, that I've made a few studies--and you see it in the paper-- oh, the school taxes are so high, and Greenports got the highest tax and I just heard that Democrat here and I'm going to tell him what I think about something too. Southold School District has about--in the last ten years--has increased about five million dollars. Mattituck has increased about six million. Greenport in that same period of time has'iincreased two million, and of that two million, four hundred thousand of it has come out of the Village of. Greenport. Now, he. says we ~ant the Farm Preservation Program. I've always been in favor of he~ping the farmers, but let me tell you something her~ right now--I jus! made a list of them---went in the tax office and said, "Oh, what d© you mean, you got fifty percent." We quoted that we had fifty percent of our property wasn't assessed. Page 21 - Public Hearing.s - Bulk and Parking Schedu..~ Let me go over it real quick. These are things that are exempt. I'm not saying whether they should or whether they shouldn't be, but there are a couple of them I'll pick out. Eastern Long Island Hospital, Greenport Village-285 acres--water shed--now, here's one of them development programs that's about forty years old. That green is the water shed there. That's got one single well on it. That's tax exempt. The railroad dock--you're spending all kinds of money there--the railroad dock, the railroad grounds, the station. When the Long Island Railroad, it paid our school district!s school taxes--no more, because the State owns it now. Then you got the Fifth Street Park, and you got Clark's Beach, which is just a sewer line going out .in the Sound--I have something to say to that too, pretty soon--goes out into the Sound, Clark's Beach. McMcann's Park and Trailer Park. Right now they got house trailers on there. It was given to the Village for a park, it's not on the tax rolls, but the Village is now putting house trailers and charging them rent. We don't get one damn cent out of that. Then you got--well, the firehouses, naturally, these are some of the things we know you've got to have them. Jail, lockup, police station, Monsell Park, CAST property, Village Hall, Sterling Cemetery, post office-- Mrs. Mitchell owned the post office, she just sold it to the federal government for $140,000.00. We don't get one damn nickel out of it now. Now, then Sterling Cemetery, housing authority, legion hall, the Village light plant, school building, polo grounds, and about ten--we're a very religious town, we must have at ]east ten. churches there. But the one thing that I wanted to say is this water shed up there--right now everyone in Greenport--tries to use it as a dumping ground. There's an outfit called Photocircuits in Jamesport. They were chased out of Nassau County, they're now in Jamesport. Riverhead will not let them put their toxic waste in the Riverhead sewer, so where they come? They're coming down to Greenport--it's a big deal, got a little tank there and all them toxic wastes are dumped into this tank and pumped out in the Sound where all you people along that Sound beach and nobody's worrying about it. Dumped out in the sound for $25,000.00 a year. A man just had a gas station he bought down there and they just cost him $1,400.00 just to have ihe gas tank--the water pumped out of the gas tank--they wouldn't let him dump it on the wall. So we need a certain amount of assessed valuation to keep an even temp. I'm not saying that we're against zoning or anything like that, I'm not against zoning, but it should be done with caution. You can see from the reports that they gave here about how many lots are available. There's no big rush right now. No crisis. How the hell it started I don"t know, but it did and now you got a Planning Board and I'll go back to the school again. I'm kind of rushed here because I know a lot of people want to speak. But, some people get on the school board, greenhorns, maybe, west end expecially, and right away they want to be the custodian, the janitor, the principal, run everything. You don't run things that way, even your thing. Up here you got a good Planning Board, the fellows are all very dedicated and you can't put a development or push things.through in five minutes, it takes as long as a year, sometimes even longer, depending on the situation. You got a Board of Health there that's keeping their eye on everything. I know there's a lot in.East Marion. They made them pump it for four hours to see the amount of water that was available. I don't think there's a crisis there. Then you got Pebble Beach down there that's been there twelve years and averages about two and a half 'houses a year. 'fPage 22 - Public Heari~.g - Bulk and Parking Sched~.~e So, I don't think there's any big crisis and when you. hear all-- taking Southampton and East Hampton--their problems aren't our problems at all. And I say this, I haven't been.here a year and a half, I've been here quite a long time, and I say we must have done a pretty damn good job~ us natives, to have all these people want to come out here. And now I'll give someone else a chance to talk. MS. AMANDA MAYBECK~ Greenport~ New York: I'm against two acre zoning. In speaking here tonight I feel that I can speak for a large portion of my generation that lives in the Town of Southold. That generation which individuals tend to write off because they hear of a selected few people who do not know what is going on or do not care what happens to them. I know that in the near future I would like to own property in the Town. As it stands now~ individuals of my generation and myself find it very difficult to purchase an acre of land, so how~ with upzoning, are we going to be able to purchase any size piece of property, for prices that are on vacant lots now will increase beyond our economic means to purchase. Therefore~ you are creating one economic comment, which is those that can afford to buy stay within the Town, while those who cannot afford to buy pack your bags and get out. Why should we, the young people of this community, be denied the right to own property because you the Town Board wants to play politics. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone on the left? Dave? MR. DAVID MUDD, Southold, New York: I'm representing the Southold Town Citizens Committee. We just submitted 1139 plus names that are gathered on petitions and people are still signing them (Attach- ment III). The Town Board has received, as you said earlier~ hundreds of postcards, all in opposition to two acre zoning. Supervisor Pell opened an ugly can of worms with his f~rst suggestion of a moratorium. The subsequent deluge to the Planning Board has left everyone in a state of panic. Any landowner or developer in Southold who even had a thought in his head of filing a map, has now done so. There's no need for this panic. Seventy-nine new homes were built in 1982 in a Town of 34,000 acres. This is not a crisis situation. The Master Plan is in the works. Ail we want is for the Town Board to wait for the Master Plan to be finished and then to follow all the legislative procedures. Presently our Town Board is being unduly influenced by a few people who do not .depend on this Town for a living and who are not concerned about people who do make their living in Southold Town. There's been reported that a prevelent attitude amount the pressure groups is that if you can't afford to live in Southold you should leave. Isthistype of attitude the Tow~ should adopt? The vote on April 18th by the Long Island Farm Bureau' Board of Directors, representing some 250 farmers in the ~own of Southold, opposes two acre zoning because of reduced property values, reduced equity, undermining the stability of our agricultural economy. What gives anyone the right to cut a man's property values in half? The very people you are supposedly trying to save and protect are saying hands off in no uncertain terms. You gentlemen all know there's been a total misrepresentation of the engineering water studies that have been done. It has already been established by the Malcolm Pirnie Report~ the Holzmacher, McLendon and Murrell Report and Page 23 - Public Hearin'g_- Bulk and Parking ScheduLe finally ERM-Northeast Report that we will never consume all the available water in this Town for residential purposes with the existing zoning. Gentlemen, rather than focusing your considerable abilities and a great deal of time on exclusionary zoning, wouldn't it be better if you create a Town which encompasses all age groups, to create employment opportunities and to create an opportunity for reasonably priced housing. Are you aware of how many of our young people want to live here in Southold and can't. Our young people are the lifeblood of any community. Gentlemen, I was one of the many citizens of Southold Town in the early fifties who recognized we needed zoning and went out to get signatures to petition the then Town Board to enact our original zoning. I thought 'then, and now have not changed, about good and proper zoning. But we now have a drastic turn proposed for our Town and I do wish you Board members reconsider this drastic change. Gentlemen, listen, the people have signed our petition and have sent cards to you, and the people here tonight fill this hall in opposition are the very core of our Town's economy. They are saying, leave our zoning alone. Wait for a Master Plan. Stop playing politics with our economy, our land, our livelihood, and our liberty.. That concludes my talk, but I would like to address one other issue. Last week one of the Board members, particularly, expressed the feeling that only eighteen people spoke, and I would like to ask of those that heard my talk tonight, do you support my stand, so that the Town fathers can count the vote as against this proposition? If so, would you raise your hands. (Hands raised, but not long enough to be counted.) COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you, Dave. Is there anyone else on the left? MR. HARRISON DEMAREST, Orient: I am a Director of Long Island Farm Bureau. At a meeting on April 18th the Board of Directors met in Riverhead and passed the following resolution: "Whereas, the Town of Southold is proposing to upzone the residentil ]and in the Town of Southold to two acre lots, and Whereas, the farmers must rely on their equity to secure operating loans quite regularly, and Whereas, the upzoning will substantially reduce property values, and,Whereas, reduced equity could further undermine the stability of our agricultural economy, Now, Therefore, Be It Resolved that the Board of Directors of Long Island Farm Bureau oppose the institution of two acre zoning in the Town of Southold." The Clerk has a copy of this resolution. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. MR. ROBERT KEHL, Southold, New York: I'm talking on behalf of myself as a builder, and as a fireman. .I hear there's 4700 lots left in the Town. How many of those lots have been sold already and have plans for people building houses on them within the next few years? I think there's somewhere around 1500 lots left for sale that are all on the open market. That doesn't leave a heck of a lot of plots left for the young people and the price of these lots range anywhere from $13,000.00 to $35,000.00... I"ve.seen so far $35,000.00 a lot for an acre. If you go to two acres, n9 one in my age group can afford a lot. The people coming in, they!Fe the ones that are going to be able to afford the lots. Now I have, say, SoUthold Fire Departme~lt. Page 24 - Public Hear~'~g - Bulk and Parking Sched'h'i'e We're all volunteer firemen down there. The youth from this Town can't afford to live here anymore and I'm not talking right now in this near future, I'm talking maybe ten, fifteen years from now. I£ the youth is all left and the fire whistle goes off that someone's house is on £ire, and no one shows up at the £irehouse, now you have to pay £or a £ull-time fire department. And talk about raised taxes~ when you have to put four mens three shifts a day down at the fire- house for pay for a full-time fire department. There's many aspects that people haven't really looked deep into the future. They're looking just for what they want to close in now and say I want to have my nice little paradise around here and keep everyone out, but it's not going to work that way. Eventually it's ~oing to backfire. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. MR. RICHARD WILTON~ Mattituck, New York: I own my home and I have some property in the Town of Southold which I run as a business. I am against the two acre zoning for many reason. A lot of them will be stated after and have been stated before. It will not benefit anyone, even the wealthy and the elderly people who are supporting this resolution. Working people cannot afford the cost of government and services unless it is spread out among more people. There is no need to respond to pressure groups at this time. What I am suggesting is to wait for the Master Plan to be completed and let the Planning Department perform the function which they are so skillfully able to do. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone on the le£t? Anyone else on the left would like 'to make a comment? Sir? MR. WILLIAM SCHRIEVER, Orient, New York: I would like to have some material put into the minutes. I would like to have the ERM-North- east Report, as I asked last week (Attachment IV), and also the ads (Attachment V). I'm not asking that they be read. I want to address my remarks to the Board, particularly. We've heard a lot of what I would like to cal 1 theology expressed tonight. It!s a theology that's many thousand years old. It's a theology that says that the world is too small~ there isn't room for all of us and we have to fight for our place in it. Theology literally refers to the knowledge of the gods~ or the study of the gods and I think it's an appropriate term, because it relates directly to the way in which we think. You see~ we Lake the forces of nature~ the water under the ground in this case, or the people moving in from the wicked west, or whatever, these are the forces of nature that we have to deal with and we don't under- stand these forcess and because we don't understand it we have a fear of them~ you see. This is the same problem they had back before recorded history, and what they did then was that they had to ? , that is they turned these forces that they didn't understand into people, which they thought they di'd understand and they calledl them gods, and they gave them propertie's~ human properties~ and the typical god was a vengeful god. A god that had to appeased, that you had to make sacrifices to in order to keep your favor with that god. This is the history of civilization. And then we have this concept of loves and I want to introduce this concept because it is so important to human behavior. The concept of love is crucial to the--to human Page 25 - Public Heari~ - Bulk and Parking Sched~''e existence. For example, if you take a child, after it's born, and you don't fondle it and care for it in a loving way, the child will die in spite of any medical attention you give it. This has been shown over and over again in studies that were done in foundling homes and various places of that nature throughout the world. And as we grow older we learn to respond not to what I'll call our sexuality, that is our sense of touch, our feeling of £eeling good when we are being fondled as a child, we learn to relate that to people. So we begin to feel good in relation to people, rather than directly to the stimulus of touch. This is how we learn to love as a child. And young people generally love much better than old people, because they haven't learned not to love. We all learn to 10ve at one time and eventually we lose this. We lose it because we go through a bad marriage, or we have other bad experiences that cause us to lose our faith in each other. Now, if you go back to a time about 2000 years ago, there was a revolution in this theology, and that was a proposal by a young fellow~ who was a carpenter, and a sort of an amateur rabbi, I guess, and he said that there's enough love to go around. He said there's not a shortage. And when we say love, we mean the things that we need in our life. Those things, food, every- thing. There is this concept, you see, that there isn't enough to go around, that is has to be rationed, that the world is going to come to an end for us if we don't keep the others out. This is the Old Testament theology. This guy was put to death, as you know, on a charge of blasphemy, because he uttered this theology, which people £ound very.very unacceptable. They were accustomed to the idea that the world was a limited place and that. in order to get their ration of love they had to do something specific to get its that it didn't come free, and the idea that it came for nothing, that you could just ask for it and you would receive it was so unusual that they, in their theocracy, they put him to death. And you know what we're seeing here today? We're seeing exactly that same scene reenacted. We are seeing what--we're sitting here in a public hearing, like the governor from Rome held, and he asked the people, he said, who do you want me to save? And they chose a murderer, I believe it was, some sort of a common criminal, and so they put this carpenter to death on a charge of blasphemy, because he kept saying -that the world is big enough £or us all, that there's plenty to go around and that we don't have to ration it. Isn't that what we're doing here today? We're considering the same old theological question that was considered 2000 years ago and I hope to hell we don't make the same mistake they made then. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else on the left would like to make a comment? Sir? MR. HAROLD REESE, Lynbrook, New York: We are property owners and developers in the Town of Southold. Last week at the Town Board hearing we heard several people advocate two acre zoning, because, as they said, it would enhance their way of life, protect the rural atmosphere, and slow down development. Ail of these are worthwhile objectives. However, they neglect one very important subject. They want to accomplish all of these aims at someone else's expense. But, there is a fairly simple solution: The two most ardent works for two acre zoning could set an example. Assume for agrument sake that they each now live on a half acre plot, we suggest that they each Page 26 - Public Heari~ - Bulk and Parking Sched~ie acquire an additional one and a half acres of vacant land, deposit this in a land bank program to be preserved forever, and then sit back and enjoy the peace and tranquility that only the ownership of vacant land can provide. Then suggest to the 3000 people whose names they have on their petition, and anyone else who feels so motivated to do likewise. This action would overnight accumulate about three to four thousand acres of vacant land, which in addition to the two acre zoning~ which the rest of us would now gladly subscribe to~ would bring peace and quiet to the North Fork £orever and ever, and set a £ine example £or the rest of the environmentalists in the nation to follow. And when tax time comes around they would only be too eager to pay their share o~ taxes on this vacant land, sa£e in the knowledge that they have contributed to the protection of the rural way of life, for the enjoyment of and bask in the reflected glory of having given thei~ all for the cause. A likely dream, but it should bring the economics of real life down to.people who would live in the clouds at someone else's expense. We are not trying to deride the efforts o£ these self- ordained disciples of the public trust, but we wish that their e££orts were channeled in some other direction and not con£ined to what amounts to confiscation o~ private property without compensation. How many people in this 'roo~ when they build or bought their £irst house, were able to af£ord more than a 60 by 100 or 80 by ~00~ or .100 by 100 plot? Few if any unless they were the recipients o£ acquired or inherited wealth which most o£ us are not. Think about that for a moment, and then ask yourself, "What is our youth supposed to do when their time comes for their first home ownership?" We are certain that the legality o£ £orcing one section of the populous~ to provide open space £or another section o£ that same populous~ without compensation, through zoning, and under the guise o£ the water shortage, will be tested i£ necessary and overturned. And if there really is a water shortage at some time in the £uture,. then it is a community problem, and not just a vacant land owners problem. It is so easy to ~ake the line of least resistance. Mr. Mullen on the Planning Board issued a report some months ago~ completely refuting this theory of water shortage, using statistics readily available for anybody to look up. In dire necessity, we could always turn to conservation~ especially when it has been demonstrated what has been done in the oil industry. So why this rush to judgment? The Su££olk County Board of Heal~h, under Mr. Robert Villa~ has been monitoring this situation for years and years. It takes months and moths of well drilling, test boring, water testing, well pumping, engineering reports, etc., etc., etc. before his department is satisfied and a permit issued. We are not complaining about Mr. Villa's department, merely pointing out how careful they are to make sure that all the safeguards have been met or exceeded. The Planning Board under Mr. Henry Raynor is equally sensitive. ~earings are held, revisions are made~ changed, revised, altered, again and again, etc., etc., etc. until every conceivable aspect has been examined and.re-examined. All o£ this detail with only one object in mind, the well. are of the people of the Town of Southold. As Mr. Orlowski of the Planning Board so subtly put it to Mrs. Oliva, "What do 'you need a moratorium for when you've got us?" And that is a direct quote, and should be the quote o£ the year. We sometimes wonder if the people of Southold fully appreciate the e~forts o£ the Chairman and Board members in their dedication to duty, for what must seem at times, a thankless Page 27 - Public Hearfi~"g - Bulk and Parking Sched~'~e job. To back up Mr. Orlowski's statement, let me tell the audience here that it takes about two years to get a subdivision approved. Forgive us if at times we get impatient with this process, but we bring it to your attention, not to complain about the Planning Board, but to show to the citizens of Southold how dedicated the Chairman and Board members are concerning tlhe growth and development o~ the Town of Southold. Your future could not be in better hands. In conclusion~ to get back to our sellf-dedication program that we have suggested, since we have not consulted with the Southold Citizens Committee about this land bank id~a~ with lhe permission of the Town Board, we would like to ask anybody in this room, who favors this plan of sharing the responsibilit~ of providing open space, to stand up. These same people would also pppose two acre zoning if applied only to vacant land owners. Now, please stand up. Thank you members of the Board and the audience for express our views. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Is there anyon MRS. BETTY KING, Orient, New York: giving us this Opportunity to e else here on the left? I could never be as eloquent as Mr. Reese. The Kings are considered one of the original families of Orient, into which I have had the privilege of marrying and raise my family. Now my children's inheren~ right of choice is being challenged. Personally, I would love to see wipe-open spaces. When we built our home on a quarter acre lot, there Were very few homes on our road. Now there are few available lots f~r sale. I do not feel hemmed in. When one acre zoning was adopted I~was sorry, but felt if it had to be to support the water table and ~ewage disposal, fine, young people can still possibly afford to buy and build. But two acre zoning for those in our economic status wouldlbe close to impossible, not to mention support and keep-up. For ~hose who are able financially I would not feel that they should belrestrained to a quarter or half acre or one acre lots. Let them bUY what they can afford that is available. At the same token, neither should those who are not financially able be forced out by two acre, four or five acre zoning, as long as the water table will support the land use and current water table studies support one ac~e zoning. Possibly very low-land acres should be stricted, but a blknket two acre zoning for all areas is just not conducive to settlemen~ for many of our younger people, and a community without youth loses its vitality. Last week we listened to a gentleman who espoused the theory that farmers had no right to sell their land for develApment. Personally I feel sad for the farmers in this area who a~e hit by hard times. .Most would rather not feel forced to sell their land. As we meet h~re, we all feel free to speak our minds. Fregdom of speech is one of our inherent. As has been said, "I disagree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to ~ay it." So with the. sale of land, I disagree, I would rather not seelfarmland sold for development, but I defend to the death their right to sell it if necessary to escape the quagmire debt. This isTj~st as much their right as a business in trouble has a right to sell their property to another business. How much more difficultltd sell farmland if two acre zoning is legislated. For almost ~w~nty-five' years. I have heard or read of the need for a Master Plan! !Politicians have dragged their feet. Example: no business zoning~i~ our area. It would have been so much easier back ~hen. I sympathize with our present Planning Page 28 - Public Hearin'~ - Bulk and Parking Scheduie Board on their herculean effort, but please let's not ro.adblock those who wish to own a home and raise a family. They have been squeezed by inflation, high interest rates, high cost of maternity, and now there is a faint glimmer of hope for the future. In closing, it is supposed to be a guarantee in this great land that we, whoever we are, have the right to to pursue happiness. Let all have a freedom of choice as long as the environment and the health of all is not impaired. For all, young and old, wealthy or not, this is our inheritance. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else here on the left? MR. GEORGE WETMORE, Greenport, New York: I am a lifelong resident of this Town. My father was a lifelong resident and his father was a lifelong resident and I don't think his daddy made it the whole time, but he did move in. It is regretable that we're even sitting here tonight discussing this. This is really ridiculous. You have an existing zoning plan, throught very thoroughly out many years ago. They knew what the facts and figures were then. They haven't changed. You have polluted water in some areas, that's what they make filters for. On the other hand, farming has to exist. It is really regretable that the farmer is being taken to task on this issue. I am vehemently opposed to any upzoning, and furthermore, if you would want to look into the engineering statistics, Joe, you would find that the con- sumptive use of an acre of farm land is equal to thirteen to fifteen families to an acre and check it out with ERM. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone here in the middle would like to speak in opposition to this? Sir, in the rear? MR. FREDERICK S. LIGHTFOOT, Greenport, New York: I feel very ambivalent about the proposal for two acre zoning and I could support it only if a moratorium is not one hundred percent assured to be legally defensible and if it will not be of sufficient duration' to protect the land until the Master Plan is complete. Basically I do not think it's a good legal procedure, and as a comment in a letter to Mr. Nickles stated, it isn't quite right to zone something one way when you intend to rezone it another way. In addition, experience has shown in other developments' of Master Plans, for example as Huntington, many years ago. Once you take a certain tact it's very hard to reverse it, so that if you move in the direction of two acre .zoning there would be a considerable pressure to maintain that two acre zoning for at least a substantial part of the farmland. As I stated at last week's hearing, it is my belief, gained studies that I've read by agricultural experts, our primary concern should be that any further conversion of prime farmland anywhere in the country is essentially slow suicide for America. It doesn't seem that very many people, if any, at the last hearing were open minded enough or believing enough to give serious thought to what I said, even though I mentioned a Presidential Commission's report as one reference. It's very difficult [or us today, when our government is plagued with surpluses of grains and dairy products, fo believe that food shortages will be a problem by the year 2000. If you realize that in three day's time our country loses as much farm acreage as we are trying to save on the North Fork, you can begin to understand why we are headed for disaster. This situation reminds ' Page 29 - Public Heari:~'~ - Bulk and Parking Scheda~l~e me.of how, when I was a teenager some forty-five years ago, and old fishing captai~ who was a friend of mine, assured me that the sea could never be fished out. However, Mr. Pell can tell you we have for some time now needed government quotas on the catches of any species o£ fish to avoid driving them to virtual extinction. Farmlands, unlike fish, cannot reproduce themselves and their destruction is therefore far more dangerous. There was an adver~ tisement in our locaI papers, and I believe a speaker repeated the contents thereof, claiming that two acre zoning would reduce the value of farmlands and make it difficult for some farmers to borrow enough money on the land to finance 'their next year's crops. Another speaker tonight claimed that many farmers are greatly in debt because of, I presume, several years of bad crops, low prices, and have to sell their land. On the other land we heard Mr. Drum tell us that there has been no problem in selling land for nurseries, for horse farms, for grape vineyards. I don't know how strong the market is for this type of conversion and in the long run I wouldn't say that horse farms and nurseries or vineyards are the best answer for solving the nation's food problem, but what Mr. Drum did say makes me wonder just how much loss would there be to farmers, if any, if we were to say that they had to keep their land strictly agricultural? I think we owe it to the farmers, as well as to ourselves, if we're going to go ahead on a Farm Preservation Program. Find out just what the facts are with regard to the vaIues.o£ farming and how strong the market is. There's no sense paying farmers several thousand dollars an acre to give up their development rights if they wouldn't be suffering any loss if they sold their ~arms as farmland. There has also been a criticism of two acre zoning because it creates a more exclusive atmosphere on our real estate picture. There's no doubt that this is true. Once you get an atmosphere of two acre zoning, it tells people that only the affluent can afford to live here and there is a great pressure then to keep the area exclusive. The result is that there will be very little housing built, if any, to accomodate the needs of low-paid workers. ~ere we pay newly married couples and senior citizens on limited incomes and other people near the poverty level. It's worth looking back a hundred years ago to the days when our Town had literally thousands of low-paid workers who worked in the oyster and bunker fisheries and on the farms. Gradually as the demand for that type of labor decreased, and affluent people from the city build summer houses out here, the idea grew that somehow we would have a community with only middle class, upper class housing, and that the low-paid workers, in restaurants, hotels, hospitals, garages and stores would vanish at the end o~ their day's work. This attitude has intensified insofar as the Town government and the government of the Village of Greenpor~ have done little or nothing to slow down a loss of existing low-cost rental housing under the impact of aggressive rea] estate speculators. Gentlemen, I say to you that economicalIy and socially. ? the community with as much diversified farming, fishing, industry and business as ours requires adequate and balanced supply of housing. Regardless of what the zoning we approve in the Master Plan, we must put some land aside and have some Town program ~or the construction of apartments of high enough density lo meet the needs of those of us who cannot afford or cannot manage a house ownership. Incidentially, I feel very compassionate for the young people, a couple of whom came here tonight, who have a dream of Page 30 - Public Hearifi"~'' - Bulk and Parking Schedu'k~e owning a house on a one acre plot sometime in the £uture. The way land and building costs are going it is. very unlikely that more than a small percentage of our youth will ever achieve that dream. There's no point in trying to save our farmlands to if we make it impossible for farmers to get enough workers to operate their farms profitably. Some farmers have already had to cut back on ? acres because they cannot get enough ? labor. One farmer told me last year that he would have to take his farm stand down early because he could not find someone to attend it after his present attendant went back to college. The more diversified crops and more intensive farming that lie in our future require more farm workers. So I urge you to use the preparation of a new Master Plan as an opportunity to provide zoning £or low-cost apartments as well as preserving our farmlands. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else here in the .middle would like to speak in opposition? Peter? MR. PETER KREN, Orient, New York~ I've summered out here most of my life. I've lived out here permanently for the last twelve years. It's my belief that'the demand £or a moratorium and blanket two acre zoning, by a very vocal minority, has created a panic and flood of subdivision proposals that are now be£ore the Planning Board. Controlled growth and controlled and planned growth is a necessity four our economic wellbeing and for the wellbeing of our. Town. and its residents. Blanket two acre zoning will kill that growth and severely handicap our people. The damage done in one year by passing blanket two acre zoning will far surpass any problems thai may result under existing zoning laws. I would request that the Town Board, instead of g~ving us two acre zoning~ give us a Master Plan that will allow this Town to grow economically and provide £or its residents. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Anyone else here in the middle like to speak? MS. MILDRED KOCH, Laurel, New York; I hope in our preservation for the wildlife and for the environmentalists that we don't get rid of all our kids. They can't afford to come here, they can't afford to stay here, and they're in a big mess. I have a son. would love him to live here. He said, "I might just as well stay where I am. The taxes will be just as bad here as anywhere else." God £orbid that we save the land for the animals and forget all of us that have kids. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Lady in the rear? Someone else in the middle here wanted to speak? MS. SYLVIA PAFENYK, Mattituck~ New York~ Reese, I just want to say, amen. I'll be very brief. Mr. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Mr. Lewis? MR. BURT LEWIS, Cutchogue, New York; I arrived here about forty years ago. It seems like yesterday. I'd like to say that I agree wholeheartedly with my friend Mr. Reese~ Dave Mudd and I'm opposed to this two acre and moratorium. COUNCILMAN MURPH¥~ Thank you, sir. Anyone else here in the middle? Page 31 - Public Heari~i'~ - Bulk and Parking Schedfi'~e MR. JACK TANDY, Mattituck, New York: I'm a newcomer~ I've only been here about thirty-three years. I'd just like to say that I agree with Mr. Reese thoroughly. He has a very sensible piece of literature there that he read to everybody, but I also heard some people saying that nobody's every going to die in this Town because they're going to liv~ forever and without any kids there won't be any more. So, let's be sensible. We have a good Planning Board, we had a good setup with the one acre and all our reports from our water men sounded alright from what I heard, I don't know where they heard this other stuff. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Sir? MR. J. C. CORNELL, Southold, New York: Looking at the gentlemen up here, I'm very happy to see Mr. Tasker come back because he's the only one that smiled at Mr. Reese when he got up here and commented. He must have had some legal comments. Anyway, somebody better smile eventually. Anyway, I'm a maverick here, I'm not for or against this in any way in that respect, however, I would like to say that last week you had a meeting here on the moratorium and 18 people spoke, and tonight there are many pelple here venting their emotions one way or the other and for or against it. I £or one would not be obliged to be on the Board here with.all you fellows, because I don't know how many people are here tonight, maybe two hundred, but numerous times tonight. I heard mention the fact that there may be nineteen or twenty thousand people in the Town of Southold and maybe there's two hundred here tonight and you're listening to pro and cons from all of us. And you five have to decide on this, depending on what everybody here says and what you think is right and I think, to get you off the hook, I think you should have a referendum on this thing and vote on it. I don't think you five men should decide which way they!re going to do this. COUNCILMAN MURPHY; Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else here in the middle would like to make a comment? In the rear--- MR. DAN CHARNEWS, Southold, New York; I'd like to know whether you should take the word of people who live on a half acre lot above the people who are strapped down with more real estate. You should take that into consideration. I do believe that some of these people who think we should have two acres, that the Town should buy an acre from the farmer for every one house he sells and of course they talk about the water here. Well, I live on Youngs Avenue, there's so much water there I thi.nk I can donate them plenty of it. The way they talk here, how much water they consume, I didn't realize we had so many water bu.£falos in Town. Of course, they,re talking about the young people. I think that pretty soon, in about twenty years from now, maybe there'll be a lot room for young people and you might not have to build as many houses as you think you have to build. Of course, the county has a County Preservation Program and I think they're looking out after our good and I don't see why the Town shouldn't have one too. I didn't prepare a speech tonight, but some of these people that want two acres of land, I have a little plot back there, I wish t.hey would come and mow an acre apiece now and · then and see how you could take care o~ two acres of land. And it all bears down to th~s that sometimes, twenty years ago, we allowed Page 32 - Public Hearing - Bulk and Parking Schedh'~'e these people to come in here. We didn't put any zoning laws on them or anything like that~ and now they are passing zoning laws on us and I just think you should take that into consideration too. I think there's room for all of us here. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Thank you, sir. Is there anyone here on the right, on my right, would like to speak? Stan? MR. STANLEY WAIMEY, Mattituck, New York: Next time I'm going to sit on the other side so that I can say something original. I feel like Elizabeth Taylor's next husband. I know what I'm supposed to dot but how do I make it interesting. A couple of things I'd like to correct. The spokesman £or Mr. Koppelman made a couple statements which I disagree with. One of the things he cited, Shelter Island, that they now have two acre zoning~ but he didn't tell you lhat a large percentage of it has less than one acre. As a matter of £act, they have a "C" Zone~ which is three quarters o£ an acre, which permits two houses one that three qaarter acre parcel. In other words, what I'm trying to say is a balance. I am opposed.to a blanket two acre zoning. I think it's discriminatory and I think that if we do put it into effect two acre zoning a large area is going to have problems, and you~'re going to have a lot of appeals to the Board of Appeals for a variance~ because they can't build on them. Now, these developments that were applied for already, I'd like to point out~ were legally applied for. There was nothing illegal about them. They were done under the current laws~ and there is no reason why it should be made retroactive af£ecting them. Now, somebody else made a statement, I think it was Mrs. Harnan~ that brokers'or real estate agents and the owners set the prices. That's a fallacy. It's the market that sets the price. It's the economic conditions that set the price. I£ it costs me $5,000.00 to subdivide an acre, I'm certainly not going to sell it for $4~000.00, if it costs me $30,000.00, I'm certainly not going to sell it for $30,000.00~.and the prices are set by the market. The real estate agent~ whoever he is~ only puts the price down as the owner requests and nobody is going to buy it if it's over-priced. Now, I object ~o Mr. Bear's derogatory remarks about the real estate people and their allies~ as though we're on ~he opposing side. We're enemies of some kind. We were. in £avor of zoning~ .we're in £avor of two acre zoning, selectively, not indiscriminately.all over the whole area. I fail to see how contamination and Over-pumping by farmers is going to be improved by two acre zoning. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY; Thank you, Stan. You did have different comments, some different comment's. Anyone else here on the right? In the rear? MRS. MARGERY BURNS, Southold, New York: I oppose two acre zoning. I purchased six acres of land on the North Road fifteen years ago. Last August I made my final mortgage payment. Now I am faced with possible two acre zoning. If this goes through I will have only two lots fronting on a highway and the.remaining lot will be on the railroad tracks. There are several houses on one half to one acre lots in this area. Two acre zoning is not appropriate for my property and is outrageous. My family came to Southold in 1640. If my.forefathers felt the way the pressure groups, bird watchers and environmentalists do about Southold these groups wouldn't be here now~ neither would Page 33 -. Public Hearl~.~.~ - Bulk and Parking Sched~.~e most of the people in this hall. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY; Thank you. Is there anyone else here on the right? Sir? MR. GEORGE CAPON~ Greenport, New York~ I've been a ~ife long resident of the Village of Greenport and I had two daughters which graduated from Greenport, graduafed from college. One is presently trying to buy a piece o£ property in Orient for about two months. It just happened to be yesterday she call the clients up that were selling the property and the property went up $4,000.00 from two months ago just because of this here two acre zoning. I'm against it and I think you're taking everything away from our young people. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else here on the right have some comments? In the rear? Sir? MR. BILL YETTER, Mattituck, New York~ I call myself a native. It's not really true~ I came here in 1934~ came west from Riverhead. I wasn't going to say anything here this evening~ but as you will see I am unprepared. But something became very. apparent to me. The petitions that were submitted to you this evening, a good many of them I went out and got myself. And in doing that I got an opportunity to speak to literally hundreds of people in Southold Town. Now~ this evening I have heard some very cleverly prepared statements for the two acre zoning~ and I've heard some statements cleverly prepared against it. I think if the Town Board, individually~ went out intd the street like I did, to say the man on the street, and got the public opinion of the people, you'd find that the people are opposed to the two acre zoning and I support that. Thank.you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you, Bill. Is there anyone else on the right? RICHARD J. CRON, ESQ., New Suffolk, New York; Gentlemen of the Board. I have no notes~ I have no letters, I have no memorandum to hand up to you. I also promise you that I will neither speak on theology, love, hate, war. and politics. Actually I'm here in a duel capacity this evening. I'm here representing, some clients who presently have applications pending before fhe Southold Town Planning Board. Applications for major subdivisions which have been pending for more than two years. I wish to advise the Town Board that these clients will not take lightly any legislation that's going to force them, at this time and place, to change the subdivisions that they have already submitted to the Planning Board. Namerous changes and great expense have been incurred by these clients .in the preparation of their maps and the procedure through a sketch plan approval. They're in the process now, presumably, of proceeding to a preliminary map approval. I don't know at what point, if ~wo acre zoning is implemented, at which you will cut off the applications that are presently pending, but I can assure that you if you do and it affects substanfially the property values and damages the individuals that are involved, I assume thai all of the environmentalists and all those that are in ~avor of two acre zonings will certain~y have no objection to contributing substantial legal expenses to the Town coffers in Page 34 - Public Hearing. - Bulk and Parking Schedu~,~ order to defend such actions. Just as Mr. Reese has suggested that they put some~money into acquiring open spaces, perhaps they ought to give consideration with respect to moratorium~ with respect to two acre upzoning~ in furnishing some funds to the Town to defend what they truly believe in~ because I'm sure those who are damaged will spend their money to prove their point. All right now I've spoken as a lawyer. Now~ I want to speak just ordinarily as a citizen on ~his two acre zoning business. I can't say that I'm entirely opposed to upzoning, but I am opposed to a blanket two acre zoning at this point and at this time and on the basis o£ the knowledge~ data, evidence and proof that exists be£ore yQur Board in making a determination as to whether such two acre zoning should be adopted. I submit to you there isn't sufficient evidence, there isn't a sufficient crisis, there isn't su£ficient data to arbitrarily go ahead and adopt two acre zoning. I notice how quick those who propose two acre zoning are also quick to say, "Lets delay anything else until we have the Master Plan completed." Such as multiple residence zoning and other matters dealing with subdivisions. They are not so quick to say~ "Let's shelve two acre zoning until we have further data from those who are conducting the Master Plan study." So it's quite unfair to proceed with one way.and disregard the other way. Now~ mysel£ as an individual who has lived here upwards of twenty some odd years, I want to see the Town o£ Southold pretty much remain the way it is. I think the atmospher and the spirit of this Town is just wonderful and great and it should remain the way it is. But, I'm going to tell you something, I get a charge out of some of our public officials and some of our p~anners. I have never seen-- let me just to into a little bit of dialectics or logic--I have ~ever seen such idiotic statements that are counter-productive to what's supposedly is to be accomplished. My understanding of two acre zoning, according to Lee Koppelman--and he has an emissary here 'this evening--according to Mr. Koppelman, or Dr. Koppelman, two acre zoning is a wonderful thing. He m~de a decision like this--you submit the papers and I will send your approval the day it hits my desk. Fine planning. Lot of consideration~ lot of thought for a planner. How- ever, what does he quote in the newspapers? Dr. Koppelman says~ "Two acre zoning is going to increase the land values in the Town o£ Southold." Presumably over time i~ will. And then Dr, Koppelman goes on to say~ "It's going to go a long way to preserve open space and farming in the Town of Southold." You know~. I could take a six year old child our of gra~ar school and it wouldn't take a great deal of brains for that child to know that when you raise the price of land, when you make it more valuable, and y&u put a farmer in a situation where he's str~ggling to make a living wi~h the land that he owns~ and you raise the value of that land, do you think he's going to' sit with it? O~ course not, he!s going to sell it. When somebody comes along and offers him $10,000.00 an acre for a hundred acres of land, do you think he's going to sit there and pass up a million dollars a~ 20~ capital gain? He'd be a foolish businessman if he did. So, every time you upzone you're~counter-productive to preserving open space and farmlands~ because the more value you put on the land,-the more it becomes attractive to sell~ not to keep. And this is exactly what you're doing with two acre zoning. You know, if you look at Upstate New York you've go~ all the open space that you could ever find, and why do you have it? Because the value o£ land is small. The.value is not great. So keep raising the valuer Page 35 - Public Heari'~g - Bulk and Parking Sched~=.e keep upzoning and you won't have any farmland left in the Town of Southold. Now, Councilman Nickles has come up with a proposal for a farm development program. I think that's a great idea., but I think we ought to all share in the cost of doing that as Mr. Reese has suggested, not just those who make the loudest protestations, who have the least amount payable, who have the least amount of land that they live on. Those are the ones that seem to be the loudest, the longest and the most tenacious. But they're not the ones that foot the bills. So in fairness to all, if you want to preserve open space in the Town of Southold I'll give you an easy way to do it. See that the farmer either makes a heck of a good living with what he has, keep the values of his land down so he can enjoy the fruits of his labor from farming, and you won't need a farmland development program. But do as you're now doing and forget about the farmer keeping his land, you had better go to a farmland preservation program. And when you do that, let's all, as good citizens of the Town of Southold, share in the cost. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you, Dick. Is there anYone else over here on the right would like to comment? MR. HALSEY GOLDSMITH, Mattituck, New York: I'd just like to go on record for being'against two acre zoning. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you, Halsey. on the right, over here on the right? Come on up. Is there anyone else here Anyone else in the back room? MR. JOSEPH PONTINO, Peconic, New York: I think that this proposal is a devious, backdoor attempt at a moratorium. The people open space they should put their money where their mouth is. And if we do you naturally raise the value of farmland. I can site you a good example, what's happened in New Suffolk. A shipyard that paid for itself is no longer paying itself because the value of the land has grown too high. Now they want to put eight condominiums per acre on it and it will probably pass the way things are going. So i£ you raise the value of farmland~ goodbye Charlie. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else outside? How about over here on the left, anyone like to make a comment? MR. TOM WACKER, Cutchogue, New York: So much is being said about how the young people feel so I guess I feel I should comment. I feel I owe a great debt to these real~tate developers who have come down here at great personal expense and launched this campaign to insure my right to live in Southold Town, but I don't want to live in Southold Town i£ it's going to be like Levittown. I would prefer to take the attitude that Mr. Grigonis took when he was young and still does, that I'll bear some expense. I could rent for a little while longer so that when I'm a little older I can live in the Town that I love and not in a tremendously developed town. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Anyone else here on'the left? Anyone else care to make any further comment? Sir? MR. ERNEST RADFORD, East Marion, New York: I'm one of these despised real estate brokers. I just want to be on record as being unalterably Page 36 - Public Heari~g - Bulk and Parking SchedH=~ opposed to the two acre zoning as it has been proposed. I think that the conception o£ £our acres for a two-£amily house is some- thing kind o£ crazy. We really need two-family houses in this area, or we need something to give rental units to the young people and everything is ignored along those lines. Another thing that I find quite peculiar, it seems to be an attitude among some of the people in favor of zoning that the public owns the land. We don't have socialism here yet, at least I hope we don't. They seem to be under the impression that it belongs to the people. It still belongs to the landowners and they have their rights and should be protected. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you, sir. In the back o£ the room? MR. RUSSELL MANN, Southold, New York: I came here in 1959. The 1959 is not really significant, but about three.months a£ter I was here I was with a £riend of mine and we were having a drink and he was born here and he was a very good friend, and still is, and I said, "Walter, you know they ought to build a gate down in Laurel and put a couple of watchmen down there and don't let anybody out here it's so nice." He said, "Fine. The next time you go west, I'll close the gate." I didn't come up here to tell jokes, but I wanted to support Mr. Reese and Stan Waimey and Dave Mudd and all the other gentlemen who are opposed to two acre zoning for all the good reasons that they gave. I'm in favor of open space. I have an eight acre parcel of land. It's already restricted to £our lots, so it doesn't make a bit o£ dif£erence to me about me owning land and I am sure that the value of my land would go up if we do have two acre zoning and I don't think we need it this way. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else here would like to make a comment? Lady in the rear? MRS. PEGGY KILLIAN~ Mattituck, New York.: I would just like to go on record as being against the two acre zoning. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. MRS. BOBRA WETMORE, Greenport, New York: ~ want to go on record as being opposed. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Barbara? MRS. BARBARA SCHRIEVER, Orient, New York: I used to be one o£ those what you used to call and probably still do call "summer people". My £olks started renting in Orient'the year I was born and I'll tell you all that was 1921'and then they bought the house. In 1960 my husband and I moved down here permanently and we've been here ever since. A few years ago at a similar type of situation somebody in Orient--I was going around getting signatures on a petition--and this person said to me, "Oh, I want everything to stay in Orient," and of course Southold Town, "just the way it was." And I said, "Well," I said, "if. it stays the way it was you would not be here." I think the strength o£ Southold Town is in its people. It's in the new people that come in. It's in the young people that grow up. It's in the minorities. I don't want to close any gates and make it just £or those o£ us that are already "~ ' Page 37 - Public HeariLi= - Bulk and parking Sched~..~ here. Some o£ u~ like me, probably Won't be here, you know, in another fifty years, we'll probably We goner.but we want.to have room for people to move in. I'm aga!inst the fwo acre zoning. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Thank you, Barbaira. Is there ~nyone else here would like to make some comments? J~st any comment at all concerning this? MRS. IRENE KOWALSKI: How about a person that cannot speak English, like my mother? And how am I going to explain all this to her? How would I do it? How? She doesn't unlderstand this. She says.she worked for that land, it's her land,l and she wants it and .she wants to keep it. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Someone else in ithe rear'wanted to comment? MR. ALBERT ALBERTSON, Southold, New york: For many years. want to go on record as being opposeld to two acre zoning. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Sirg~ I just ~R. WILLIAM GARDINER, Cutchogue, Newi York: I really want to ask a q~estion rather than state an opinion. That's a little bit di'f£erent, I guess. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: It's really for Icomments to the Board, sir, I'm sorry. MR. GARDINER: I would like to suggest that you not have a referendum. I think that's going to be--see what we have tonight--I think you gentlemen are smart enough and more iinput than most of us. I strongly hope that you make the decision one way or the other. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else? MRS. ALICE CORNELL, Southold,.New Yo~k: I.have an impression that progress is to be deterred. I ~eel ~hat everybody that's in this room eventually isn't going to be here. We should make arrangements for our younger generation. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. MRS. AVIS ZAZECKI, Southold, New York: I agree with the lady before me. I think we should think of our Children that are here now that want to live here and I am opposed to two acre zoning. I have three boys that had to leave the Town of S0uthold to go elsewhere to live because of what's happening here. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else care to make some comments? Sir? MR. CHARLES KING, Orient, New York: I I have a small £amily o£ five children and I would love to see them grow up here and I am opposed to two acre zoning. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else care to make some comments? In the rear? Bill? : Page 38 - Public Heari',~ - Bulk and Parking Sched~...~ MR. WILLIAM SHARP: I've lived out here for sixteen years. I went to Southold High School and graduated in '74. I would like to state that I am in favor of the upzoning. I~m in favor of the moratorium and I realize that you gentlemen will be having a fairly difficult time after all of the comments tonight;coming to any kind of a vote on this. The problem is i£ two well intentioned proposals, the moratorium and the upzonin~ do not get sufficient support it wi'Il have the same amount and type chaos that has been going on in Southold Town most recently, which has'been pointed out by the Planning Board'who says that they're ifiundated prior to the Master Plan going into place. I would thus suggest that however you come to some agreement, I .urge you to come to agreement either on one of the two or hopefully both of the proposals. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Someone else? Sir? IRVING L. PRICE, JR., ESQ., Greenport, New York: I want to straighten 'Mr. Sharp out on'one thing. When he says that the Planning Board is overwhelmed, it's been my thought for a good many years that the money spent by the Town should be on a management consultant to decide how the whole process can be streamlined. I have now, in ~ront of the Planning Board, an application to divide sixteen acres into four four acre plots, ali fronting on a Town road, all with the maximum depth and the maximum width, and it's been in front of the Planning Board since January and it has not been resolved yet, and there has been at least three or four hearings on it and if you want to know why the Planning Board is overwhelmed, it's because their procedures are screwy. They need streamlining, and that is what the Planning Board and the Town Board could well spend their time, instead of imposing a helter skelter two acre zoning. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone care to comment? MRS. ELIZABETH WELLS FERGUSON: I don't think it's important that many of my ancestors were here in 1640, What I'm concerned about is the future and I think i£ we let our water supply deteriorate and the quantity become so low that there is not enough to support the people that are here, that is something we have to worry about. And, also, I'm concerned about The wet~ands because of all the life in the wetlands,, the seafood, the birds, everything works together and if we don't save our wetlands we're really going to have troubl'e, so I think the moratorium and the two acre zoning are good. I'm £or them. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else would like to make a comment who hasn't spoken before? Yes, sir? MR..ROBERT BERKS, Orient, New York: I!d like to add a thought for consideration of the Board. The towns that have been built along our Pacific Coast, our rivers and development all over the country, were controlled by boards, people with!shortsighted view and our weather this year and recently has proven most of these people with shortsightedness have been wrong. We ~ave an opportunity to learn from what's happening. There's a tremendous change in the weather all over the world at this time. It's.not temporary, it's really happening and if we don't take advantage of this experience and Page 39 - Public Hearil~g - Bulk and Parking Schedule make judgments to wait and look. This is all the moratorium and the two acre zoning is about. To take time and think. We all. agree we have a Planning Board, we all agree we have the Master Plan coming up. And if we just take a short amount of time, wait to make our decision to see what it is all about, think about and think what is happening all over the country and these decisions that have been happening about. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. Is there anyone else here would like to make a comment who hasn't spoken before? Anyone outside? Jack, do you want to make another quick comment? MR. JACK TANDY, Mattituck, New York: Last week at the meeting one our Town Board members kept a record of the people that spoke and he came up with sixteen people, or eighteen people and about the same number of people are here tonight that there was last week. I kept a rough estimate here and'I came up with almost sixty people that spoke. If I missed a few. And to give the Town Board an idea of the opinion of the majority of the people, there was almost over two to one that were against the proposal. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you, Jack. Bill, you wanted to make another comment? MR. WILLIAM SHARP; Just responding to Mr. Price. The idea of streamlining the Planning Board so that applications.go through more quickly so that people can sell their property and make a buck on it is one of the problems, or perhaps the main problem, that we're dealing with here. The two problems are our water supply-- We have uncontrolled growth, it's not necessarily regulated by an active Master Pian at this point, and number two, the question is alsow growth. There are a lot of people--apparently better than half o£ the people here--or half--who are in favor of growth, in bring a lot of new people into the Town without regulating where they live and how they come in, but those same people still speak about the fact that they want the open space here. They happen to love living here, those have both come and those who have been here for generations. Clearly we need some sort of guidance from the Town Board and this simply what we're asking for. I think people on both sides of the femce, and I hope that you'll have the wisdom to come out with something. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you., Bill. Any other comments? Anyone else? (No response.) I would again apologize for Bill Pell being absent tonight due to his mother's illness and so we really can't tell you when this would be discussed with the Town Board. At the present time it is not on the Work Session agenda to discuss either of the three proposals where we had public hearings--the two last week, or the one this week. When Mr. Pell gets back he will make a decision on when to.set it up and when to put it on the Work Session and this will be given out to. the papers for anyone who would like to come and listen to the discussion on it. If that's all the comments, I would like to thank everybody for their patience and really concern for this Town and your comments. John, do you have something? Page 40 - Public Hearifl'~' - Bulk and Parking SchedW~.e COUNCILMAN NICKLES: I'd like to second what Frank is saying inasmuch as last week I see you're all here,, some new faces. I think the Town Board recognizes the fact that you're here because you're interested in the Town, no matter what your position is and that you are concerned about the Town. However, last week somebody said something as a joke--at least I assamed it to be at the time-- which was having a referendum on the moratorium or on the two acre zoning and I.'would have to tell you that I've checked with our Town Attorney, I've checked with Robert Batson, Senior Counsel at the Secretary of State's Office in Albany and unfortunately no matter how hot the potato is, these six legislators that sit up here cannot shirk their responsibility. This is not an 'item that is allowed under State Town Law for referendum, no matter how much anybody wants to get off the hot seat, it's too bad, we're going to have to make the decision and some of the papers may think the decision is too big for this Town Board--I don't think it is, but it is our 'responsibility. That's why we have public hearings, so that we can listen to the input and.make a decision based on the information supplied both at the public hearing and other information available to the Town Board. Again I'd like to thank you all for coming and expressing your opinions. I'd like to.mostly thank you for your politeness towards one another at this hearing. COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Thank you. I'd like to now'ask the other two Councilmen. Councilman Townsend do you have any comments? COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND: In my experience in government I don't think I've ever come across an issue where I felt there was so much support on both sides of an issue. I think as far as public hearings go, and I've been to many in. the last 2eh years, this has been,.in many ways, the most interesting. It's mn issue that I think I've seen coming for--since 1970, when ~ou l~ok up. the Island and see the development coming down the I~land~and know it's a matter of time before we have to deal with some o~ the same questions that all the townships have had to deal with. ~t's obvious that everybody believes fervently in what they've said and|many have spoken reasonably, and I think all of you have spokeB eloquently, and it'~ up to us now and I was going to second what Joh~ said. We 'cannot put this up to a referendum and it's up tO us ~o do the best that we feel for Southold Town. I thnk we can; only~take all your comments, and I made a note on every single p~rson~that spoke--that said something, and when it's all over there Will ~e a decision and I just hope that we can all continue to be friends., COUNCILMAN MURPHY: Larry, do you ~ave anything? COUNCILMAN MURDOCK: Well, for thelpurpose of--since I've been quoted as. last time with 18, 2heretwere 68 people who spoke tonight. For whatever it's worth as an' individual, I consider it a privilege to be able to sit and listen and t~ke part in a. forum. I only hope I get the wisdom somewheres to come up with the right answer that's going to be a satisfactory one. I~don't think there's anybody in this room that's going to wal~ out,of here as sure of the rightness of their opinion as they were!when~they walked in. Any reasonable person that would sit here and .liste~ to each 'of the people discuss th ' ' ' ' ; ~ e~r v~ewpo~nt would have to agre? some of us are right and some Page 41 - Public Heari~'~ - Bulk and Parking Schedk.~'~ of us are right on ali sides and I really consider it'a privilege the time is given me and I just hope we're all. able to come up with the decision that time will say is the best one. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Thank you, :Larry. You wanted to say something Start? MR. STANLEY WAIMEY: I just wan~ted to say about the informational referendum--you can have a refe'rendum. We've had one in Town. That re£erendum was an in£ormatlional one, it wasn't a directive that the Town Board had to comp!ly with. COUNCILMAN MURPHY~ Thank you. I£ there is nothing further, I again, on behalf of the Supervisor, thank you for your tremendous input and patience~ and I declare the hearing closed. dith T. Terry~ Southold Town Clerk '1 ~ .... A Residence District ~i;'. .. ~ . Single- Two- ,~'"" ' ' ..' · , · ' Family Family I!!I Minim~l?n :ReqUirements ' Dwelling' Dwelling 'i, Total lot a rea (sq. ft. ! BO 000 '~i' Lot width (ft.} 200 ~270 Lot depth (ft. } 400 .~ ~'400 ~;., Front yard (ft.~ 50 50 ;1~,,Oneside yard tft. I · Beth side yarda (ft.) 50 · i t ,c, Rearyard(ft.) 75 95 :,, , .... Livable flooc area tsq. ft. I:1:.' per dwelling trait B50 850 ti'I~, Off-street parking spaces i ?'"i l~r dwelling unit 2 Maximum Permitted i ~ Lot coverage (per;~ent) 20 20 ': ,1' BnildingHeigh~: '" '[I'" FeetNumbe'r of stories a$2't ~ 352'V2 I~ IS, §2. This Local Law shah take eft'ecl im.m~Liately. h, , DATED: Mayl6, 198a tTMyt9-~259 [' ' LI~'G',%'L' NOTI C E '![: ' NOTICEOF ADOPTION LOCAL LAW NO. ? - 19~3 NOTICE IS HERE BN' GIVEN that the So~ff, old Town B~rd at a reg~ar meeting held on Ma~' [6 I~ adopted LoealLawNo. 7- 1983 entitled. "A Local La~ to Amend th~ Bu~ find,~ar~ng Schedule o{ the Zomng Code of {he Town of Southold ~ whi~ reaas as fol]ow$- Chapter 100 of the Code o1' I~ To~,n of South~M. (Zo~ng~ is nereb3, amended as fo[low~. Section { The "Bulk and Parking Schedule" applicable to the · 'A ' R~idem ~al and Ag;-icMt~al D~stnets ~s amended to read as B~K A~ PA~KING ~C~DLILE BY ORDER OF THE SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD JUDITH T. TERRY, TOWN CLERK STATE OF NEW YORK ) ) SS: COUNTY OF SUFFOLK ) Joan ~, ~stavso~ of Greenport..in said County. being duly sworn, says that he/she is Principal Clerk of THE SUFFOLK TIMES, a Weekly Newspaper. published at Greanport. in the Town of Southold. County of Suffolk and State of New York. and that the Notice of which the annexed is a printed copy. has been regularly published in said Newspaper oncs each week for o~ weeks successively, commencing on the ~[ ~;~'~- day of ~ 198~ No. 470787lL Suffolk' C~unt~_ ~ Principal Clerk lerm Expires March 30, Sworn to before me this day of ~{~y 19 COUNTY OF SUFFOLK STATE OF NEW YORK Ss: Patricia Wood, being duly sworn, says that she is the Editor, of THE LONG ISLAND TRAVELER-WATCHMAN, a public newspaper printed at Southold, in. Suffolk County; and i-hat the notice of which the annexed is a printed copy, has been published in said Long Island Traveler-Watch- man once' each week for ......................... ./. ............. weeks successively, commencing on the ............... !.?....~. ............. 19 ...................... . ....... L, Requirements Total }ot area (sq. Lot width (R,)' !' " Lot depCh'(ft.) Front ya~'fft~',i! . One side 5(ard Both' sid~ Sard~?(ft.) Rear yard (ft.) · Livable floor area (sq. ft.) · ~ per dwelling.unit · Off-street'!packing spaces Sworn to before me this ................. .L.:.'" ....... day of NoTICE"iS ~REBY GWE~ that:~e. S6uthold Town Board at a reg~'~ meeting held on May 16, 1983 ~pted ~cal LaW No'.,7-1983 entitle, "A.Local Law to Amend ~e Bffik ~d Parking Schedule of the Zoning Code of the Town 0f Southold," which reads as [oBows: ......................... ch~ter ~ of the Code of thc Town of Southold (Zoni~is Sc~ion 1~:,.. The "Bulk and Parkiqg ~chedule'~ applicable to thc BULK AND PARKINGgCHEDULE ~ . ' ' A Residence DJs~i~~ 4 pe~dW~llin..g unit Maxinium p~rmitted · Lot covefa~6'-(percent) Building He.ight: Number of stories Family , :': 80,000 ~ 200 ....400 · , ~...->' ' 50 .'..,. ~ 30 50 75 .850 20 Family ~vWmng ¢~': 270 : ~'.~ ; 400 50 30 50 75 V:':;*-:¢ -.~ 850 '~':'-~ 20 .,.5~ Feet ,, 35 .... ~ "::'; 35 §2. This Local[,&aw:,shall take 'effect immediately. ": ": : Dated: Mar lfi,.~D8~ . ,~?. - ' -~ .... B g ORDER OF THE S0~HOLD TOWN:~OARD JUD~ T. TERRY, TOWN CLERK 1T-5/19/~(~