HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-12/19/2001Albert J. Krupski, President
James King, Vice-Presiden~
Artie Foster
Ken Poliwod~a
Peggy A. Dickerson
Town Hall
53095 Route 25
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone (631) 765-1892
Fax (631) 765-1366
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
Wednesday, December 19, 2001
7:00 PM
PRESENT WERE:
Albert J. Krupski, Jr., President
James King, Vice-President
Artie Foster, Trustee
Henry Smith, Trustee
Ken Poliwoda, Trustee
Lauren Standish, Senior Clerk
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 at 8:00 AM
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve, TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 at 7:00 PM
WORKSESSION: 6:00 PM
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES
APPROVE MINUTES: Approve Minutes of October 24, 2001. (Held until January.)
MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for November 2001. A
check for $7,342.34 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General
Fund,
II.
PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin
Board for review.
III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES:
MANZI HOMES, INC. requests an Amendment to Permit #4986 for the change in
the side-yard from 30' to 27.7', southwest side only, well and well water line
trenched through wetland area, and cesspool in front of house instead of rear, as
per the Health Dept. Located: 400 Rene's Dr., Southold. SCTM#54-6-4.4
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to Table the application until new plans are received
showing the final grade and a retaining wall. Gutters and drywells must be
installed immediately. TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES
THOMAS E. KRAUS requests an Amendment to Permit #5275 to erect a black
chain-link fence (approx. 440'), 4' high around the backyard for pool safety.
Located: 3329 Manhanset Ave., Greenport. SCTM#36-2-23.3
TRUSTEE SMITH moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE POLIWODA
seconded. ALL AYES
Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf of PETER J. JACQUES
requests an Amendment to Permit #5416 to reposition the location of the
proposed dwelling 4' to the northwest to maintain 20' from the side property
boundary. Located: 4079 Main Bayview Rd., Southold. SCTM#78-2-18.2
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approve the application, TRUSTEE SMITH
seconded. ALL AYES
Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf of MICHAEL MCALLISTER
requests an Amendment to Permit #5253 to to-vegetate the existing bluff (6340
sr.) with approx. 3170 plantings of American Beach Grass and 3170 plantings of
Rosa Rugosa. Located: 17665 Soundview Ave., Southold. SCTM#51-1~3
TRUSTEE FOSTER moved to Approve the application with the condition that hay
bales be placed down landward of the existing retaining wall, TRUSTEE
POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES
Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of FREDERICK MAYNE requests an
Amendment to Permit #5362 to construct new vinyl-sheathed bulkhead within
18", measured face-to-face of the sheathing, of the existing bulkhead which
existing bulkhead totals 32 linear ff. Fill space between old and new bulkhead
with clean sand. Located: 860 Bayberry Rd., Cutchogue. SCTM#118-1-15.1
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application with the condition of a 10'
non-turf buffer behind the bulkhead, TRUSTEE SMITH seconded, TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI abstained, TRUSTEE FOSTER Aye, TRUSTEE POLIWODA Aye.
Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of JOANNE MCSHERRY requests an
Amendment to Permit #5326 to construct a new vinyl-sheathed bulkhead within
18", measured face-to-face of the sheathing, of the existing bulkhead which
existing bulkhead totals 173 linear ft; construct new 95 linear ff. of 4' wide walk,
4'X 6' stair landing, and 4'X 7' stairs to grade to replace existing structures of the
same size. Fill space between old and new bulkhead with clean sand. Located:
660 Bayberry Rd., Cutchogue. SCTM#118~1-13.1
IV.
TRUSTEE KING moved to Approve the application with the condition of a 10'
non-turf buffer behind the bulkhead, TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded,
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI abstained, TRUSTEE FOSTER Aye, TRUSTEE SMITH
Aye.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF
THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM
THE SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY E~E READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF.
FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS IF POSSIBLE
ANDREW NIKOLICH requests a Wetland Permit to install 125 linear ft. of C-Loc
Series 4500 vinyl sheathing on inside of the existing bulkhead. Extend second-
story wall of the existing bedroom and eliminate second-story balcony. Construct
second-story addition over existing garage. Install accessory building (10'X 8'
shed), and restore circular driveway. Located: 850 Budd's Pond Rd., Southold.
SCTM#56-5-15
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone here who would like to speak or comment
on behalf of the application? Is there anyone who would like to speak against the
application?
TRUSTEE SMITH: I looked at this. What kind of a driveway are you going to put
in?
MR. NIKOLICH: It's going to be a circular driveway with bluestone or blacktop.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I'd like to see an impervious surface, or if you put in blacktop,
you'll have to install drywells to contain the water in your driveway.
MR. NIKOLICH: Well in that case, we'll go with the bluestone.
TRUSTEE SMITH: And, you're going to do this all behind the existing bulkhead
that's there now?
MR. NIKOLICH: Yes.
TRUSTEE SMITH: And as far as the 8'× 10' shed, it's not a problem with that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh What about a buffer behind the bulkhead?
TRUSTEE SMITH: don't think he has a turf buffer there now. You don't have a
turf buffer. The grass doesn't go right up to the edge of the bulkhead does it?
MR. NIKOLICH: No, it's all sand. There is no grass.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Ok, because you have to have a non-turf buffer 10' back
from the bulkhead, but I think you have that already.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The CAC made a comment requesting a non-turf buffer
and that the applicant set the shed back as far as possible, and that the existing
walkway removed and replaced with permeable material. Is there going to be
any work on the walkway?
MR. NIKOLICH: No.
4
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is that necessary or reasonable.
TRUSTEE SMITH: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Ok, it's not necessary. All right, if there's no other
comment, is there a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE SMITH: I'll make a motion we Appreve the application with the
condition that there be a 10' non-turf buffer behind the bulkhead and that the
driveway material be permeable.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded, ALL AYES
MARK & LORRAINE AGLORA requests a Wetland Permit to construct a deck
onto the rear of the house. Located: 200 Haywaters Dr., Cutchogue.
SCTM#104-5-19
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of
the application? Against the application? I was at the site. I spoke to Mr. Aglora
and this is really a standard deck on the back of the house. I would recommend
approval, and I'm sure the GAG would also. If there is no other comment, I'll
recommend closing the hearing. Do I have a motion on that?
TRUSTEE KING: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'll make a motion to Approve the application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
3. JOAN LACAILLE requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 1' high retaining wall,
apprex. 60 linear ft., on northwest side of catwalk, and approx. 30 linear ft.
retaining wall, 1.5' high northeast of catwalk. Located: 1255 Waterview Dr.,
Southold. SCTM#78-7-17
POSTPONED UNTIL JANUARY AS PER THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST
4. Land Use Ecological Services, Inc. on behalf of FRANCIS & MARIA MCNAMEE
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a dock facility which consists of a 4'X 32'
+/- fixed CCA timber pier, elevated a minimum of 4' above the existing wetlands
vegetation. (18) 4"X 4" CCA timber dock pilings are preposed to support the pier
and (1) 6" CCA timber mooring pile 10'+/- to the west side of the pier. Located:
910 Glenn Rd., Southold. SCTM#78-2-27
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor or
against the application? Now November 26th he sent us the revised plans. He's
showing us 48' across. He's going out 10'. Do they have boats tied up at the
bulkhead?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Acress the way they do.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So it's navigable.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Where is the original plan?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Everything is the same except he doesn't show the
bulkhead across the way. He didn't show a distance to Iow water.
TRUSTEE KING: I think it would be better if he came in perpendicular to this
bulkhead. Make it perpendicular to the shoreline. Do you know what I'm saying?
It would take up less room.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's true. The boat would be parallel to the channel
instead of sticking out.
TRUSTEE KING: It's going to sit caddy-cornered like that but if it was shifted
around like that parallel to this, you could tuck that in there.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: That makes sense.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I wish he were here so that we could tell him and
specify that the boat can't have more than a 6' beam.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we could do that anyway. Do you want to see plans
or do you want to approve it with those conditions?
TRUSTEE SMITH: I would approve it with the condition that you see a set of
plans.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That way, the plan has to come in, we have a record of
what we said tonight, and that way when the plans come in we check and we
say, ok here's the dock turned, we double check it, and then we can approve it,
otherwise it goes a whole another month. It's such a simple change.
TRUSTEE KING: Why don't we just make him shift it to the east and make it 30'.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Ok.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: You mean angle it?
TRUSTEE KING: Yes. Bring that seaward end to the east so it's perpendicular
to the bulkhead across the way and make the dock 30' instead of 32'.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: That itself will bring it in closer.
TRUSTEE KING: That will bring that in a little closer and shorten it by 2'. That
should be very doable and very easy.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion we Approve the application based on a new
set of plans showing the dock, the seaward end of the dock shifted to the east so
the dock is perpendicular to the bulkhead across the creek and the length of the
dock is to be 30' instead of 32'.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The dock with the boat shall extend no further than 1/3 the
way across the navigable waterway, not to the bulkhead, but the navigable
waterway.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
Land Use Ecological Services, Inc. on behalf of ERNEST H. SCHNEIDER
requests a Wetland Permit to re-locate an existing lot line and construct a 1,320
sf. single family residence and sanitary system on the southern lot. Dwelling will
be located a minimum of 100' landward of the tidal wetland boundary and the
proposed sanitary system shall be located 109' landward of said boundary. The
limits of clearing, grading and ground disturbance shall not exceed the 100'
setback. Located: 915 Lakeside Dr., Southold. SCTM#90-4-5&6
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of or
against the application?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: This is where they pushed all the land-clearing debris right
up, 10' to the bluff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Do ] have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Artie, do you want to make a motion?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with the
condition that a new plan be submitted showing a 50' non-disturbance buffer and
that the debris that's pushed up into the top of the bluff be removed, and that a
row of staked hay bales be placed at the 50' setback line prior to construction.
This application is approved subject to that work being done before the permit is
issued.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
Land Use Ecological Services, Inc. on behalf of ERNEST H. SCHNEIDER
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a single-family dwelling (2,000 sr.
footprint), 24'X 24' garage, associated sanitary system and pervious driveway.
Located: 800 Lakeside Dr., Southold. SCTM#90-3-6
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of or
againstthe application? This is the second lot. We have a 50' non-disturbance
buffer on here, and it shows 20 cy. of fill coming in. It doesn't show gutters or
drywells but we'll include them. Is there any other comment? If there's no other
comment, do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE FOSTER: They certainly don't have an awful lot of reom to do any
excavation there between the footprint and the non-disturbance area. Well
actually, if they have to put the hay bales at the 50' buffer, they certainly won't be
able to encroach on it; they'll just have to deal with it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They're really not changing the grade. They show the
final grade to be 10' and the original surface grade is 9 ½'. They're really not
changing the grade.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with a row of
staked hay bales at the 50' non-disturbance buffer area and drywells and gutters
for roof run-off.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
Docko, Inc. on behalf of PIRATE'S COVE MARINA, INC. requests a Wetland
Permit to conduct maintenance dredging to restore a depth of 7' below mean Iow
water, removing 300 +/-cy. of silty sandy bottom sediments over 4,000 +/-sr. for
upland disposal. Located: Peninsula Rd., Fishers Island. SCTM#10-3-22
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak if favor of the
application? Any Board comment?
TRUSTEE KING: I just wanted to see the DEC permit.
LAUREN STANDISH: Docko was trying to get it to us but they didn't have it in
time for the meeting.
TRUSTEE KING: I would give them a maintenance permit running concurrent
with the DEC permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's way inside there isn't it?
TRUSTEE K~ING: Yes, it's up in the cove there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would that be Coastal Erosion in the cove?
TRUSTEE KING: I don't know. To me it's just straightforward maintenance.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh They don't show the Coastal Erosion Line on the survey
that they submitted. To be on the safe side, I would approve this based on the
possibility.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Of what?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Of it being Coastal Erosion. They seem to think they didn't
need a wetlands permit, which they definitely do. They are certainly adjacent to
the wetlands, which they show. I think we would be inclined to approve both of
them, the Coastal Erosion and the Wetlands. If there's no further comment, do I
have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to Approve the application to run concurrent
with the DEC permit.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
J.M.O. Environmenta Consulting on behalf of WILLIAM D. REED requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a single-family dwelling, associated sanitary system,
public water line, driveway, patio and garage. Located: R.O.W. off Peninsula
Rd., Fishers Island. SCTM#10-3-12
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of this
application?
TRUSTEE KING: It's so developed there. It's just past the marina. It's long and
skinny. There's a house here and a house behind it. It's a real steep bank.
There's a big oak tree here and a big oak over here. Why don't' we just draw a
line between the two trees and make this no disturbance at all. That's the only
thing we can do here. That's the only thing I could see. We need a line drawn
tree to tree, and this will be non-disturbance down here. From the top of the
bank, it's about 32'. It's going to vary. How about a staked few of hay bales
running from the 18" oak tree on the north side of the property to the 24" on the
south side of the property. From that point, there will be no-disturbance. I'll make
a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to Approve it with those conditions and also
drywells and gutters to take care of the roof run-off.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
Patricia C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of EDWARD WERTHNER requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a single-family residence 61' to bulkhead and 60' to MHWL.
Located: Windy Point Lane, Southold. SCTM#78-6-2&3
POSTPONED UNTIL JANUARY AS PER THE AGENT'S REQUEST
10. Samuels & Steelman Architects on behalf of RONALD CASSARA requests a
Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit to renovate the existing frame
residence and add new additions, resulting in a new one-and-one half story
residence. Located: 30185 Cabot Wood Rd,, Peconic. SCTM#73-4-1
POSTPONED UNTIL JANUARY AS PER THE AGENT'S REQUEST
11.Suffolk Environmental Consulting, nc. on behalf of WILLIAM H. PRICE JR.,
ESQ. requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 1725 sf. single-family dwelling
(footprint) with a 550 sf. attached deck (footprint) an 865 sf. gravel driveway,
septic system and waterline, and place 125 cy. of fill to elevate the se ptic system
house. Located: 100 Bay Road, Greenport. SCTM#'!,3-5-10
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
MATT IVANS: This pretty much speaks for itself. We're just reapplying for a
permit that expired. You approved a permit dated February 25, 1999 and it
expired February 2001. The applicant is basically just reapplying with the exact
application.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have questions for you but before we start I would just
like to ask if there is any other comment on this application? All right. The CAC
recommends Disapproval because the proposed structure was not staked, the
landward edge of the wetlands should be identified and flagged, and there is also
a concern with the high-tide mark in relation to the proposed structure. The CAC
has a concern with the existing p~pe and the redirection of the road run-off. The
CAC recommends that the structure is moved 75' from the wetlands. We had
some questions. I don't know if the house was staked, was it?
TRUSTEE KING: No.
MATT IVANS: We could stake it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We also had questions with some of the...it seems like
this survey maybe needs more detail. It shows a 6' contour and then a 4'
contour, and I think the Boards needs...our field notes just say that we need the
wetlands on the survey. There seems to be spartina patens inside of the 4'
contour there, right next to the neighbors on the south side of the property. We
walked in on the south side, on the neighbors' lawn, we walking in right in there,
and it looks like that right next to their retaining wall, there is a significant amount
of spartina patens. What we would like to see on the survey is the location of
those and the identification of those patens there, and then we need to see the
house staked. I don't know if the Board has any other comments.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well I thought there were some concerns.
TRUSTEE KING: On the first application, that road run-off was supposed to be
resolved between Mr. Price and the Highway Dept.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's still a pipe running onto Mr. Price's property from
the highway. I'm sure Mr. Price would like to see that resolved also because
that's a problem. That's a Highway Dept, problem. We would like to see him
work with the highway.
MATT IVANS: Was the high-water mark unclear?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That, I believe was a CAC question. They had a concern
with the flood-tide mark in relation to the proposed structure. It did seem like
there was a rack line right up into the property.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Into the building envelope.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I think we would like to see the 5' contour placed on the
survey also. This goes from 4' to 6'. I'm trying to find a picture here in the file. I
don't know when these pictures were provided for the file. I don't believe they're
recent, but I'm not entirely sure. They can't be recent. Is the Board going to
request any other information on this application?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I don't think so.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh So we need that house staked and the vegetation shown
on the survey.
MATT IVANS: Ok, just south of the retaining wall, and the read run-off resolved
with the Highway Dept., and 5' contours, Ok.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ok, I'll make a motion to Table the application.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
12. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf of ALFRED & MARIANN
SUESSER requests a Wetland Permit to construct 8 linear ft +/- of 10' wide +/-
rock revetment (w/5' wide splash guard above) starting from the southeastern
corner of the property to the existing wood deck/stairs; and construct 185 linear
ft. +/- of 8' wide +/- rock revetment beginning from said existing wood deck/stairs,
along the bottom of the bluff which runs contiguous to the southeastern edge of
subject property, and terminate at the northeastern corner of subject property.
Located: 5055 New Suffolk Rd., New Suffolk. SCTM#110-8-32.8
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
MATT IVANS: I'm going to speak on both Suesser and Gleason together.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ok, I'll open the hearing for Gleason also.
13. Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on behalf of TOM GLEASON requests a
Wetland Permit to construct 195 linear ft. of bulkhead beginning from the
southeastern most property corner, along Cutchogue Harbor, (w/5' return at
northern terminus) with a 5' wide splash pad on landward side of proposed
bulkhead and 5' wide toe armor on seaward side of proposed bulkhead along
entire length. Extending from the northern terminus of said bulkhead will be 130
linear ft. +/- of 16' wide +/- of rock revetment, itself running along the
southeastern edge of subject property to the northern property line. In addition,
applicant proposes to construct an access read (8.0' wide) on the northeastern
section of said property. Located: 5115 New Suffolk Rd., New Suffolk.
SCTM#110-8-34
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ok, now you can speak.
MATT IVANS: This is a coordinated project with two property owners working
together to solve a common problem and that is erosion on the bluff. The Board
went out there on several occasions and I think that we all agree that those
properties have experienced significant erosion. What we can agree on is that
the degree of severity of the erosion varies across both properties. The most
severe erosion is occurring on the Gleason property and a bulkhead with toe
armor is proposed. The plan and specifications submitted in connection with this
application includes cross-section provides protection to his property and it is not
our intention to remove any trees located on the bluff. (inaudible) It would not be
reasonable to attempt to remove or dig into the bluff to locate the structures more
landward as proposed, because further damage to the bluff would result. The
combination of bulkhead and revetment is proposed because it's a more compact
design both with standard revetments. The proposed toe armor in front of the
bulkhead and the revetment that extends across the Gleason property and
Suesser property are (inaudible) that are substantially below grade. Our
applications to the Board were submitted to the Board on July 23, 2001 and there
have been three hearing on this matter. During the last hearing, you had
requested we stake out the bulkhead, which was done. You'll note that the
proposed bulkhead (inaudible, background noise). Mr. Samuels is also here to
answer any questions that you may have concerning the design of the project
structures.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. We also have a number of photographs
submitted by Thomas Sam uels and a letter attached to those. Would you like me
to read that? At the previous public hearing regarding the referenced application,
t~ambo agreed to provide the Board with photographs as evidence as to the
effect, or lack thereof, of toe armor seaward of vertical face walls as well as so
called splash pads protecting backfill in areas where historical storm surge
overtopping has frequently occurred. The enclosed photographs represent
structures in Southold approved by the Trustees, which required toe armor. You
will note the absence of beach scour in front of all these bulkheads. F~ambo
believes that all vertical face walls on the L.I. Sound and bulkheads on the Bay
with Northeast exposure require toe armor as mitigation for permit issuance. The
Alan Dickerson permit, for example, should require armor. The Trustees have
previously armored returns only in some cases. The exception to Southold
permits is submitted because it appeared to be of interest to some of the
Trustees as an example of these types of structures as installed. The site is the
West end of Shinnecock Bay, and an example of an extreme "splash pad': This
bulkhead is at a Iow elevation and the splash pad was installed to prevent loss of
backfill when overtopped in Northeast storm surges. Submitted with that letter
are a number of photographs showing the Cerillo property and Peck. If I could
ask, Mr. Samuels, when was that Peck bulkhead built?
MR. SAMUELS: The bulkhead was built before last Christmas. At that particular
Stretch, I took a lot of photos there because east of that is Bailie's Beach and with
the jetty's, it's pretty well documented that there has been some erosion there.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: That's right next door to the big blowout, Mihalios.
TRUSTEE KING: Right.
MR. SAMUELS: All of those bulkheads from Bailie's Beach Rd., to the end have
armor with the exception of the Goldsmith bulkhead which was built in 1970, right
in the middle there, and that was not armored. I have some additional
photographs of armored bulkheads but I think those pictures tell the story as well
as anything. The bulkheads east and west of Bridge Lane on the old Bokina
farm, they're all armored, and they have done very, very well. The toe armor
seems to retain the sand. We need the bulkhead on the south end of the
Gleason property because of the elevation. I also mentioned the vinyl bulkhead
on Shelter Island, on the wayto the Rams Head Inn.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I looked at that Tom. I went over and looked at that. I
walked up and down and looked. It seems to be doing the job. It's very rocky.
MR. SAMUELS: Well we brought in 850 trailer loads of stone as a Corp. of
Engineers project. They armored it on the seaward side and the landward side.
But, the Federal Government can afford that kind of armament.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How many trucks?
MR. SAMUELS: 850 trailer loads.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Where was that, Ram Island? There's a lot of stone there.
MR. SAMUELS: That's all quarry stone.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well I think the Board went out and looked at that not this
month but the month before when it was staked and it was marked out and
flagged as a structure. I don't believe, and anyone can correct me, I don't believe
the Board was comfortable with that size structure there, nor did we feel, after
reviewing this for months, literally months, since July, that this sort of protection
is necessary in this area. We really don't want to make a mistake by allowing a
structure of this magnitude where it's not necessary and it could in fact, do more
harm than good.
MR. SAMUELS: Well there's really no alternative to this structure. We attempted
to mitigate the impact of those structures. I would hope that you'd agree that
armonng (inaudible). There has to be some structure there. There has to be
some solution to the erosion problem.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ithink the erosion on the Suesser property, it's pretty
clear that it comes from the jetty that's there on the beach and it's clear that the
jetty has an effect on bluff erosion and on beach elevation both. It's very clear.
MR. SAMUELS: The applicants have agreed to remove that jetty and use the
stone for toe armoring. It doesn't protect the upland. The jetty does not protect
the upland. It doesn't do much at all.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What do you think Artie? I need somebody to comment
on this. The applicant is waiting for an answer.
MR. SAMUELS: I might add that the DEC is the lead agency on this and neg.
decked it and we have their approval and the Corp. of Engineers approval, so
somebody, some agencies apparently believe that there is erosion out there. I
think if you look at Suesser's stairs, you can see how much erosion has occurred
since those stairs were built and I don't believe they're three years old.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I think that's caused by that little rock jetty in front of it.
MR. SAMUELS: We're willing to take it out but that will not protect the upland
from storm surge.
TRUSTEE K~RUPSKI: But the upland doesn't seem to be particularly vulnerable
there on the Suesser property. The CAC actually specifically recommends
Disapproval of the application because of the proposed hardening of the
shoreline seems to be excessive in this area for erosion control. Once you get
away from dynamic of the neighboring bulkhead to the west that juts out, the jetty
that juts out there causing the erosion scour on the Gleason property, once you
get aWay from that, the erosion tapers off almost to nothing, the bank erosion
tapes off almost to nothing, and the beach is built up until you hit that small jetty.
In the shadow of that jetty are Mr. Suesser's stairs, which have suffered, and a
ittle bit of bank erosion. Once you get past the shadow of the jetty again, the
bank is stable, and the beach is stable.
TRUSTEE FOS-FER: That elevation changes tremendously from...what is it 12'
high on Gleason, where the bulkhead ends and then it tapers down to 3' or 4' as
you go further down the beach.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I don't think we're against armoring the bluff in some
manner but not armoring it in this manner. That's why we haven't jumped into this
with both feet in July when we first saw it because we were a little unsure of the
magnitude and how it will affect a huge stretch of beach and we don't want to
ruin that stretch of beach by saying, well the DEC approved it so it must be Ok.
We don't want to take that course.
MR. SAMUELS: I can certainly understand that because I've been to the three
hearings and I know what your position is. I hopefully supplied you with
photographic evidence of other places where there is greater wave action;
certainly more wave energy and those bulkheads in no way destroy the beach.
There has to be some sort of relief and I don't know. If the Trustees want to
come up with an Engineering scheme for erosion control, we can certainly
entertain it. I don't think you want to do that. I don't think you want the
responsibility. We will certainly accept the responsibility. There has to be some
relief to the property as to what can be done. I had seen in many nor'easters the
waves crashing on that bluff in storm surge conditions and there is a lot of
erosion. The fact that there hasn't been a severe nor'easter since December 12,
1992, doesn't remove the natural law, which essentially says, if it's happened
once, it will happen again, and how can I provide for the safety of the properties
without a structure. The toe armor will be very close to the foot of the bulkhead.
Most of the revetment you won't even see because of the elevation. The toe
stones will be under the beach. You won't see it. Probably the first two stones in
the revetment will be under-grade, and will stay under-grade, because of the
energy absorbing qualities of the revetment.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What about that proposed access road? Is that proposed
to come through the revetment onto the beach?
MR. SAMUELS: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm looking for some sort of cross-section of more details
then what's shown on the survey.
MATT IVANS: For the access?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's right. It would be on the Gleason property, right?
MR. SAMUELS: It would be the north end of the Gleason property where the
elevation is at it's lowest, close to the Suesser property line.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I don't see it on the plan. I see it on the survey. How
would you cut a road?
MR. SAMUELS: The architect, who you know, and I can get you his building
envelope and his depiction of the haul road, which is a temporary haul road,
which will be rebuilt on the way out. In other words, this section where you get
onto the beach, so as you back out, you're pioneering your way back out up the
haul road, and you rebuild the bluff, and it's not very high there, and then it has to
be re-vegetated, as does all of the bluff on both projects.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I was under the assumption that the access road would be
permanent, because you're going from 19 ¼' of elevation down to 4' something,
so that's a pretty good change.
MR. SAMUELS: No. That's why it's going to be graded. It's going to be built at
different elevations. The purpose is purely protection with no intent to raise
grade or .increase property or anything else. It's built right at the toe of the bluff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But our intention is to just to protect that beach there.
MR. SAMUELS: Well that's why we're mitigating with the armor. Is there
anybody on the Board that would question whether armor works? Is there
anybody on the Board who has seen a site where a well-armored bulkhead has
resulted in beach loss? Even the scour that's ordinarily seen right after the
bulkhead, where the beach drops down to what call storm pavement. Even if
those cases, the stone armor has retained sand at the base of the bulkhead in
the spaces between the rocks. They don't fit together like a sea wall would, made
out of concrete blocks. I can't think of another structure more suitable that I could
give them any assurances that is going to last.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Jim, what do you think?
TRUSTEE KING: For that area, it seems excessive.
MR. SAMUELS: You've made that comment, but I don't know what that means.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well we have been out there at least as many times as
you have l bet.
MR. SAMUELS: I remember dredging Wickham's Creek for the County and it
must have been 15 years in a row. I've been down there a lot. Of course I looked
at it right from my windows so, I've seen it. Every time I go sailing I see it. Every
time I go in Schoolhouse Creek I see it. I've seen it in almost every condition.
Remarkably stable. Our intent is to keep it that way.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh What do you think Artie?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well what I think is that in my term on this Board, not
having a lot of experience with these and not being around in a major storm
event on this Board, you know we rely on these experts and I would think that
there has got to be a couple of them here. I don't know. I don't know what to tell
you. Aesthetically, it might be ugly, but will it do the job?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well it will do the job protecting the upland but will it do
the job protecting the beach or at least ensure the integrity of the beach.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: But as Tom said, are there any areas where there's been
toe armor that have created a tremendous amount of erosion.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I personally don't think it would do any harm to the beach.
MR. SAMUELS: There is another form of mitigation that we certainly would be
willing to entertain and that would be to cover the toe armor as we've done on the
Sound, several time, and plant beach grass, actually on top of the revetment. I
also submitted, today I Federal Expressed something to Lauren, and it was a
situation similar to this in East Hampton where the homeowner could not obtain a
permit for erosion ~;ontrol and he was asked to rebuild a bluff with the so-called
soft approach. Each time it cost about, well in excessive of $25,000. It didn't
work. Predictably, it won't work because if it would work, you wouldn't need a
bulkhead and we wouldn't have bulkheads. The project-was finally denied and it
went to the courts and everything else and the court, the appellate division, ruled
in favor of the homeowner saying that the East Hampton ZBA could, they have
the east end Trustees approved of it, but the East Hampton, which has an
ordinance called Natural Resources I~ermit. They denied him, he went to court,
went to the highest court in the State, the seven judges agreed unanimously that
while the ZBA could require him to cover the structure and keep it covered and
keep it planted, l~hat they felt that he could no longer keep so-cai:led the soft
approach on the blUff. That's an analogist situation. On Lake Erie incidentally,
the Corp. of Engineers protects private property with revetments. But anyway, to
make a long story short, I think this ~s an analogist situation. You could stipulate,
I certainly wouldn't keep the haul road open beyond the construction, but I could
always talk to Tom Wickham about coming from the road he has up to
Wickham's Creek. It goes onto the beach. That's how we can our pay-loaders
and cranes in. At sea level, al those elevations on there are mean sea-level.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Last month we asked Bruce to stake it out, what it would
be. We were struck by the size of it and I think the Board would be more
comfortable with the minimum amount of structure there.
MR. SAMUELS: You know the elevation of the structure to the south right?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I don't think we can condition the permit on the
removing of that.
MR. SAMUELS: Oh no, but that's the elevation we're starting out at, tying into
that, at it's extreme landward end of that return. We're building at the toe of the
bluff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Which is not to say that he didn't built out, or someone
didn't build out at the time.
MR. SAMUELS: I don't know.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: When I visited the site for the first time and looked at it, l
thought if anything had to be done to stop the erosion and build the beach up,
was a row of stone, or revetment, cover it with sand and plant behind that.
MR. SAMUELS: That's what I just said as mitigation, what the court ruled. Which
is a structure covered with sand, so that you didn't see it. As I said a few
moments ago, the last bad not'easter we had was 1992, that's 9 years. Almost
10. In that storm, all the bulkheads on the east side of Nassau Point for
example, were under 3' or 4' of water. That's why these structures should be built
on an elective basis, not as a result of a catastrophic loss of property. The
burden that is put on the industry, which can't handle those catastrophic storms
really, it took us two years to take care of the storm damage. So, if you were to
Condition the permit with covering it and beach grassing it, I don't believe the
owners would have a problem with that at all. All they're looking for is protection
against these storms, or a storm.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Personally I think the rock revetment in front of the bulkhead
makes it more pleasant looking.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh sure, I think the bulkhead itself could be minimized
instead of ...maybe I'm wrong on that.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I didn't see any bulkhead in my vision. When I looked
at it, I just looked at a revetment.
MR. SAMUELS: Well it's a choice of what technique you want to meet. If I was
to have a discussion with the DEC, they would complain about the footprint of the
revetment to do that bulkhead section elevation, one on two slope on a
revetment. So, YOu're going to come out into the beach, granted a good deal of
the stone will be below grade and you won't see it, but that's a much bigger
structure. You're picking up 10' of elevation, one on two grade on the revetment,
it seems an awful lot to me like 20'.
MATT IVANS: If I could just show this to you what the rock revetment would look
like. It would extend to the high-tide mark.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Unless the rock revetment were started here. I think
that's what we're saying. The bank right like this is pretty steep here. This shows
kind of a Iow angle here. The bank is a lot steeper.
MR. SAMUELS: It's a 45.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is Gleason and this isn't showing a 45 here. If you
had a 45 here and I'm not saying that this is the final answer here in my mind.
But, if you armored that wouldn't that accomplish the same thing?
MR. SAMUELS: You have to come up to this elevation because the bluff is so
high. The damage that is going to happen in an over-topping storm on the south
end is going to really take back the top of that bluff. As it is now, we're going to
have to re-contour that lip like we had to do on the Sound. You know, that over-
hanging fringe?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't know if that should be done either.
MR. SAMUELS: Well it's going to fall anyway.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Right, let it fall.
MR. SAMUELS: Ok.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Technically, I look at it as if, the high-tide mark, we
regulate 100' landward, and there have been cases where we drove sheathing
into the land 100', 75', at our jurisdiction mark. Put the rocks down and let
whatever happens happen. It seems reasonable. It protects the property. You're
going to lose a little bit off the top lip but eventually...
MR. SAMUELS: Well that's the whole thing. You're describing what we're doing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But the top lip does provide habitat also that we're
concerned about. On the Sound, we're require~l that the top lip be left along and
let it naturally, and of course once you provide toe protection, slowly erode.
Once you provide toe protection, if there's no water coming off the top, the top
lip, even if it's at a ...
MR. SAMUELS: You can stabilize the bluff with a structure at the toe...
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But the top lip isn't just going to fall right off.
MR. SAMUELS: It won't wall fall right off but whatever vegetation is there, as the
roots dry it's going to come. Mother nature will take care of that lip.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But I think there's a significant habitat there. You have
bank swallows and you have fox living in that bank, in that bluff. If you cut that
bluff back, if you built the bulkhead, you cut the bluff back, you're going to
eliminate all of that habitat.
MR. SAMUELS: I~m not proposing to eliminate any habitat.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm just saying, part of the permit would be to leave the top
of the bank alone, even though it is a little unstable. I'm sure the applicant would
want stairs for beach access. Is it proposed on Gleason or not?
MATT IVANS: No, not yet.
MR. SAMUELS: I think they'll probably share Suessers'.
TRUSTEE'KRUPSKI: But you do have significant habitat that we wouldn't want
to see lOst.
MR. SAMUELS: We're just going to put beach grass where the sand is exposed
with no vegetation, which is going, not with a big storm, but after every northeast
storm that gets to the toe of the bluff and chipping it away.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't disagree with you that we haven't had a nor'easter
in ten years, and that doesn't mean it won't happen again.
TRUSTEE SMITH: It's just a matter of when.
MR. SAMUELS: I hope we never have one, but it would be naYve to think that
won't. 1'11 let you in March. March is really the worst month that we worry about.
I've been ar~ound long enough to have been through some dusies.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We've had some pretty series ones in the last 15 years.
MR. SAMUELS: Perfect storm, Halloween 1991. The hurricane before that
when all the trees were leafed out. That was a tough one. Was that Gloria? No,
Bob.
MR. SAMUELS: You can condition it that the owner has a year following the loss
of the sand over the revetment to re-sand and replant it. That's the way the
ocean bulkhead permits are written.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well it's a concern for their beach. This isn't even a public
beach. There is no public access here period, I wouldn't think.
MR. SAMUELS: Well you'd be surprised. One of the favorite places for
outboards would be the south side of Wickham's Creek; that little area there
where the big sand pile is. If you go in there in the summer time on a hot day,
you'll find 15, 20 boats there. They're actually using the Wickham beach there,
inside the canal. Of course then they walk all the way up to Schoolhouse Creek.
But, generally speaking, they don't swim there. They swim in the creek, in that
little hollow dent in there. Just on the side of the pile of the dredged spoil, that I
wish was on the beach.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What about access? Can you get the access through
Wickham's or not?
MR. SAMUELS: I'm sure. '11 see him in church.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'd rather see that, don't you think?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'd also rather approve something that's kind of effective
and not a trial and error thing and waste these people's money. I don't think
that's why we're here, really.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Are you going to approve it with the bulkheading? can
make a motion for the rock revetment.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I thought it was "as submitted", covered with sand, and
that the jetty removed and used as armor.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: They're requesting 195' ft. of bulkhead.
MR. SAMUELS: And armor, we'll plant the armor.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right, but not the bulkhead. It's too high, you couldn't
cover it, and the access would be off the property. The bank wouldn't be touched
at all, the top of the bank. So, you would backfill only as necessary behind the
bulkhead and plant up the bank and not affect the bank, from the top.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Well that's not the vision I had, so I'm not going to make
that motion.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Alright, ['11 make a motion to Approve the application for
Alfred & Marianne Suesser and for Tom Gleason with the condition that the rock
revetment and toe armor on the Gleason property and the rock revetment on the
Suesser property be covered with sand after the project is corn pleted and planted
with Ammophila 1' on center, and in a timely fashion. Do you have DEC
approval on this?
MR. SAMUELS: Yes.
TRUSTEE I~RUPSKI: So you're ready basically to go?
MR. SAMUELS: Yes.
TRUSTEE K~RUPSKI: All right, so the Ammophilia should be planted before April
1~t. Also, the stone jetty be removed and the stone can be used as rock armoring
in either of the project and that survey beach elevations be taken before
construction, at the corner of the existing bulkhead on the south side of Gleason,
and in the middle of the Gleason property, and one on either side of th e jetty, to
show how the removal is going to affect beach elevation.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Before and after photographs should be provided.
MR. SAMUELS: All the things that you just incorporated in this are what the
DEC requires on ocean front structures. Essentially what it does is the owner
who is being permitted to do this, is supplying data to the DEC as to what's
happening to the beach like that. So what you're requesting is not unreasonable
at all.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Tom, is there an ivy that grows over the bulkhead?
MR. SAMUELS: Yes. The best stuff is Rosa Ruchieriana, which is a vine like
rose. If it's planted seaward of the structure, the vine comes down in front of the
bulkhead and it blooms. There's whites, pinks, reds, it's excellent, and it's
available.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I'll second that motion. ALL AYES
14.Amy Martin of Fairweather-Brown on behalf of AILEEN PASKOFF requests a
Wetland Permit & Coastal Erosion Permit to replace the burned-out structure with
a new single-family residence with pool. Located: 205 North Sea Dr., Southold.
SCTM#54,4-4
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
AMY MARTIN: We submitted the revised plans. (inaudible) We put the proposed
drywells for the pool backwash on the side yard and we have a new site,
landward of the house, for the newly proposed septic system. Obviously this
house is really an eyesore at this point.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That keeps it in line. That's one of our policies, to keep
the houses in line.
AMY MARTIN: The new house, the deck is actually back further.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The pool ~s going where the deck is. So, the houses are
in line. The new deck will go out from the house.
TRUSTEE SMITH: That was our main concern.
AMY MARTIN: When we started this, we hadn't had the survey that had the
Coastal Erosion Line on it, but the Coastal Erosion Line goes right through the
old house. (inaudible)
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
PAT MOORE: 'm here representing the neighbor. They called me in on the first
proposal, which was objectionable to the neighbor, but this one is not
objectionable. They had me sit here waiting to put their support of this
application on the record.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment before I jump ahead?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'll make a motion to Approve the application based on the
newly submitted plans with the relocation of the house.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
15. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of MYLES MAHONEY (CONTRACT VENDEE)
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a two-story, one-family dwelling,
detached garage; and non-structural terrace; clear up to 50' landward of tidal
wetland boundary; and establish a 50' non-disturbance buffer adjacent to the
tidal wetland boundary. Located: 385 Grathwohl Rd., New Suffolk. SCTM#117-
6-14.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Actually it should be maintain a 50' non-disturbance
buffer. Is thero any one who would like to speak in favor of the application?
ROB HERRMANN: It's a very straight-forward application. Most of the project is
actually beyond the Board's jurisdiction. There are portions of it within it
including clearing up to the 50' non-disturbance/non-fertilization buffer. The site
was staked for the Board's and the CAC's field inspection. If the Board has any
questions, t'd be happy to answer them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are there any other comments before we start? The CAC
recommends disapproval considering that West Creek is identified as a unique
pristine natural environment of the Town of Southold. They recommend a 100'
non-disturbance buffer. The neighbor's garage is sitting right there, isn't it? It's
actually behind the neighbor's garage, which we considered when we went out
there. We've been out there a number of times.
TRUSTEE SMITH: He's got a buffer how big, in front?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It looks like 50'.
ROB HERRMANN: It's the standard 50' adjacent to the wetland boundary.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think that will provide adequate protection there. We
have been to the site a cou pie of times and we've walked it a couple of times.
There's a pretty good elevation there. The only thing we're going to require is
drywells.
ROB HERRMANN: There is a system of drywells not just for the house but for
the garage also.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment? We would also ask for a staked row
of hay bales. I've never seen silt retention fencing installed properly, so I don't
know if we're going to require that. Usually it's flapping or rolled up on the side or
pushed aside or generally disregarded.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's supposed to be below grade.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Have you ever seen it installed properly?. Most of the time
we go on these projects, it's tied up on the tree or something. If there is no other
comment, do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with a staked
row of hay bales at the 50' line adjacent to the tidal wetland boundary.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
16. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of GEKEE WICKHAM requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a 51' new bulkhead (with C-Loc vinyl sheathing) in
front of existing steel sheeting, 18" face-to-face. Backfilling with 27 cy. of clean,
trucked-in sand. Located: 1200 First St., New Suffolk. SCTM#117-7-30
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Would anyone like to speak in favor of the application?
JOHN COSTELLO: I am the adjacent to Gekee Wickham on this application.
I'm here to answer any questions the Board may have.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The CAC recommends Approval. Is there any other
comment? Are you going to have to move those rocks out?
JOHN COSTELLO: We'll move the rock out for the first foot or so, (inaudible).
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh The access is from the water?.
JOHN COSTELLO: The access is going to be from land.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh From the land.
JOHN COSTELLO: We're probably going to take a piece of deck out.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Th at's all concrete under that deck. Did you notice that?
JOHN COSTELLO: Yes, and if you remove a piece of that deck, you can move
right in there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?
TRUSTEE SMITH: I'll make a motion we close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE SMITH: I'll make a motion we Approve the application.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
17. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of WILLIAM LEHMANN requests a
Wetland Permit to remove and dispose of a 44' portion of an existing jetty. Install
a new 44' jetty in-kind, in-place using CCA treated materials. Located: 730
Rabbit Lane, East Marion. SCTM#31-17-17&31-18-16
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
JOHN COSTELLO: I am the agent for William Lehmann on this application.
TRUSTEE K:RUPSKh The CAC Tabled this. They question the need for
replacement and has a concern with the amount of material that's being
excavated.
JOHN COSTELLO: The amount of material that's being excavated?
TRUSTEE K~RUPSKI: How much material is being excavated on this project?
JOHN COSTELLO: None.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It says 100 cy.
JOHN COSTELLO: There would be 100 cy. disturbed because we would be
using a water jack.
TRUSTEE K~RUPSKI: Ok.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We had a question about the length.
TRUST. EE I~RUPSKI: We measured 44' out, then there was extra.
JOHN COSTELLO: There is a new 16' piece at the end of this jetty that was put
in probably 10, 15 years ago. The inshore end was not done because it was in
reasonably good condition. Now the sheathing is failing and they want to replace
it.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: So you're not going to do the end portion. You're going to
leave that?
JOHN COSTELLO: Yes, it's functional and in good condition.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Ok, it's just the piece in the middle.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Between the excavation and the extra piece on the end,
everybody had some questions.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is there a permit for that entire jetty?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh There's a 1962 survey showing a jetty that's cut off but it
shows a 60' jetty.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with the
condition that the jetty starts 22" or 24" from the top of the deck.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
18. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of MORRIS FAMILY
PARTNERSHIP requests a Wetland Permit to construct 100' new bulkhead (with
C-Loc vinyl sheathing)immediately in front of existing bulkhead. Located: 1665
Shore Dr., Greenport. SCTM#'!.7-2-30
TRUSTEE SMITH: Is there anyone here who would like to comment on this
application?
JOHN COSTELLO: I~m the agent for the Morris Family Partnership application.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of or against
this application? Does the Board have any comments?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there going to be a non-turf buffer or not here?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Yes.
JOHN COSTELLO: It's not a big splash-zone area. They have a lawn there now.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The CAC recommends disapproval because they want it
inkind/inplace and a 10' non-turf buffer. Any possibility of putting it in
inkind/inplace.
JOHN COSTELLO: Well the Board probably knows by now my position on doing
it inkind/inplace. The bulkhead is creosote. It was probably built in the late 50's.
The creosoted material does leach into the back fill. If you remove that bulkhead,
I can assure you that the tide will rise and fall and take the pollutants out into the
bay, whether you want to or not. We put silt fences up, the creosote material
floats. Even though the DEC may require inkind/inplace, as it did on one job in
Mattituck, they did not care about the wetlands. They didn't care about the
creosote going into the bay. They wanted it removed because they wanted it
removed. We did that under that condition. The trouble is, I would not
environmentally recommend it because it does have a polycryptic aromatic
hydrocarbon in the soil. We do have permits from the DEC for this under one
condition. The condition is, after excavating behind the bulkhead, we place a
drywell, and make sure that the roof run-off going through the drywell first. That
was the only condition requested.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh I'm looking for plans for this, unless it's in the other one. I
didn't see a cross-section.
JOHN COSTFLLO: I would certainly intend that the vinyl was cause less acidity
to the environment.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You're showing that the existing pilings would be removed.
JOHN COSTELLO: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Did the DEC require a non-turf buffer.
JOHN COSTFLLO: No, they did not.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we will. A 10' non-turf buffer for both of the Morris
properties.
JOHN COSTELLO: Do you have a reason for it?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: When you have turf, the pesticides and fertilizers get
applied right to the edge of the bulkhead, and in a rain event, they are washed
right over. Whereas the 10' non-turf buffer, those material are not applied
directly to the edge, adjacent to the wetlands, they are applied at least 10' away
and during a rain event they won't be washed directly into the water. They can
use gravel.
JOHN COSTELLO: But they will go into the water?.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Hopefully no. Hopefully if you apply nutrients for plants,
the plants will use up those nutrients and they wouldn't be released into the
water. If you're applying something next to a bulkhead, there's a possibility of
shooting it directly over the side.
JOHN COSTELLO: Just for the Board's information, if you can try to attempt to,
with any of the bulkheads, backfilled, particularly in this areas where it's more
clay than normal, to backfill with clean sand and you may be able to create a
sand type of buffer, which would certainly assist where people have swimming
pools, etc.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: But doesn't that actually contain the water and never dry
out?
JOHN COSTELLO: The clay?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: The sand. The clays kind of impervious and it doesn't allow
the water to seep through it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's just like sand on the beach.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Will it actually go down? Will it actually go through the
sheathing so it leaches out of the C-loc? I know many cases when we excavate
for a foundation in an area that's nothing but clay. People want to bring sand in
to backfill around the foundation and that's the worst thing in the world you can
do because the water goes down and lays at the footing and before you know it,
it starts seeping in and you want to put the clay back that came out of there and
grade it away so that the water doesn't go down there. But if the bulkhead itself
is actually letting the water leach through, well sure that would be the way. The
sand would act as a natural filter system.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE SMITH: I'll make a motion we Approve the application with the
condition of a 10' non-turf buffer maintained at the top of the bulkhead, the piles
will be removed and the C-Loc right against the existing whalers, and drywells to
contain the roof run-off.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
19. Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of MONIQUE MORRIS requests a
Wetland Permit to construct 100' of new bulkhead (with C-Loc vinyl sheathing)
immediately in front of existing bulkhead. Located: 1555 Shore Dr., Greenport.
SCTM#47-2-29
TRUSTEE KING: Is there anyone here who would like to comment for or against
this application?
JOHN COSTELLO: I am the agent for Monique Morris on this application. [would
explain that this is contiguous and immediately east of the Family Limited
Partnership. It's the same construction.
TRUSTEE KING: Are there any other comments? I'll make a motion to close the
hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: rll make a motion to Approve the application with the condition
of a 10' non-turf buffer maintained at the top of the bulkhead, the piles removed
and C-Loc installed right against the whalers, and drywells installed to contain
the roof run-off.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
20.John F. Costello on behalf of JAMES & JUSTINE WEEDEN requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a supported roof to supply shade for the pre-existing stone
patio. Located: 1175 Bridge Lane, Nassau Point. SCTM#118-2-6.2
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is thero anyone who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
JOHN COSTELLO JR.: I'm hero to answer any questions.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I took a look at it. It's pretty straight forward. It's just a little
shade roof on an existing patio. We've been down there a number of times. I
don't know if the Board has any questions. Any other commer~ts? I'll make a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to Approve the application.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
21. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of MICHAEL BRAVERMAN AND MARK
STEFURAK requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 14'X 24'+/- addition to the
existing house. Located: 2755 Cedar Beach Rd., Southold. SCTM#91-1-1
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Is there anyone to speak on behalf of this application?
JIM FITZGERALD: Yes, I am here for the applicant. It's pretty straight forward. I
think the only point to be noted that is not included specifically in the application
that the proposed addition will be further away from the wetlands than the
existing house is. That would be the northwest corner of the house is closer to
the wetlands than the proposed addition. It will be on a crawl space.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Is that the reason for the plus or minus? 24' plus or
minus?
JIM FITZGERALD: It's simply because if it turns out to be 24' and 3" or 23' and
TRUSTEE FOSTER: But not 34'.
JIM FITZGERALD: Certainly not.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I looked at this and it was no problem.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Should we get some gutters and drywells on this?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It never hurts. It does have a slope that goes down into
the wetlands.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: What's this 15' easement out in front? What is it, a paper
road down thero?
JIM FITZGERALD: Where?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right here.
JIM FITZGERALD: If you look at the tax map, all of these lots down here are
pretty well subdivided equally and this piece is cut out of the corner of this thing.
There is physically no read there and I don't know who has the easement.
haven't seen the deed.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It might be one of those situations like down in Goose
Creek Estates there.
JIM FITZGERALD: I don't know what that is Al. But do you see the way the
corner is cut out for no apparent reason? And, it doesn't correspond with the
direction of this easement.
TRU S-I'EE FOSTER: That easement just appears to go on either side of that
parCel, that's Why I asked. I thought maybe it was one of those little paper roads.
Do you remember the one that just came u p recently in Nassau Point, that little
10' easement that appeared?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with the
condition of gutters and drywells to contain the roof run-off.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
22. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of ANGELO PADOVAN requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a single-family dwelling, partially on pilings, with on-site
sewage disposal system and public water. Located: 22455 Soundview Ave.,
Southold. SCTM#135-1-23&24.1
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Would anyone like to comment on this?
JIM FITZGERALD: Yes, am here for Mr. & Mrs. Padovan. I have a cross-
section here for the proposed construction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Are there any other comments before we get into this. I'll
read the CAC comments. The CAC recommends Disapproval for the following
reasons: the applicant should provide the details of grade stabilization.
JIM FITZGERALD: They are stabilizing it by building a house on it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh They do have a big retaining wall here also. It says
elevation 20'. Is that the road elevation?
JIM FITZGERALD: Yes, it appears to be.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh They want to build that up to the road, take a look. Let me
finish reading the CAC's comments first. The proposed structure would have a
negative impact on the existing road area. Although, they're not specific on how.
There is a concern with the proposed septic design. The project is within the
Coastal Erosion Hazard Area. I'm not sure how they found that out because we
couldn't find the Coastal Erosion Line on the survey.
JIM FITZGERALD: It runs down Soundview Avenue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Oh, it does. Is it on here?
JIM FITZGERALD: I don't know. On the official maps, it runs right down the
middle of the road.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's down the road? Really? We did think that house was a
little too close.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Actually, you would have to apply for a Coastal Erosion
Permit also. But, let me finish their notes. If the Town of Southold is in the
business of approving houses being built within the wetland boundary, the Town
needs to establish guidelines to address houses being built on the beach, is
there any other comment?
TRUSTEE SMITH: Didn't we tell them that we wanted to keep this house back?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think there's a Coastal Erosion problem here. But, you
can make another comments if you like too. I think we would consider this the
structural hazard area.
JIM FITZGERALD: Well Al, I've spent a lot of time looking at that and I don't see
any clear definition of what a structural hazard area is. I'm sorry, I don't see any
clear description on how to locate the structural hazard area in any given
location.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll read the Code. Structural Hazard Area: Those shore
lands located landward of natural protected features and having shoreline
receding at a long term recession rate of 1' or more per year. The inland
boundary of a structural hazard area is calculated by starting at the landward limit
of the fronting natural protected feature measuring along the line perpendicular to
the shoreline and horizontal distance landward, which is 40 times the long term
average annual recession rate.
JiM FITZGERALD: I don't think the beach is receding at a rate of 1' or more per
year in that area, and that's the first line in the definition.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're going to have to review the Code and ask for help
from the State on establishing the structural hazard area here because under the
structural hazard area, if the Board defines it as a structural hazard area ....
JIM FITZGERALD: I think the Board would have to show that it indeed met all of
the conditions that are specified in the definition.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Absolutely.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: The DEC was with us on that one. He was kind of waffling
a little bit about this one.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The only other alternative would be to consider it the near-
shore area. Let me read the definition of that.
JIM FITZGERALD: The problem with the definition is that they go through all of
these definitions of what appear to be subdivisions of the Coastal Erosion Hazard
Area but they don't show up on any map.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well no, they would have to be defined by the Board, but if
we didn't think it was a structural hazard area, I think the only other alternative
would be the beach. The beach is defined as the zone of unconsolidated or that
extends landward from the mean Iow water line to the waterward toe of a dune or
bluff, whichever is most waterward. In that case it would be basically the whole
location of this house.
JIM FITZGERALD: Well all we want to put on the beach are the piles.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It seems like the beach extends up to the little building and
even past that. The beach extends about halfway into the house.
JIM FITZGERALD: But half of the house is supported on piles.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But it would be on the beach. The shore land subject to
seasonal more frequent over wash are considered to be beaches. Then when
you go into 37-15, beach area, 37-15D, all development is prohibited on beaches
unless specifically provided for by this Chapter. I think you're really looking at, I
mean I think it would be a stretch to call that a dune there. I think you're even
looking at calling that a beach. We're going to have to Table this and rewew the
Code. You're going to have to apply under the Coastal Erosion Permit.
JIM FITZGERALD: Let me point out, if I may, that this lot is, I think, the only
undeveloped property in that beach, if you will.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You said undeveloped?
JIM FITZGERALD: Well it not yet has reached it's best use of property. All the
houses and the giant deck that's on the property and the Condo. on the other
side of the road, are literally in the beach. The houses further to the west are
essentially the same sort of construction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh This lot has, I think, some other limitations though. But,
the Coastal Erosion Code here is one of the major players on how we review
this.
JIM FITZGERALD: I would like to think that the Board is not going to say, Ok, this
one single lot is not going to be able to be developed because of what's on the
beach. In my humble but kind of expert opinion, there is no environmental
problem either with the property as it exists now or it exists With a house on it,
and there is very little possibility of this house being subject to any storm
problems that all the other houses in that same area have not been subject to for
years and have survived.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well let us review the Code and you also have to realize
that there is a difference between limiting development and, how would you say,
fully developing it. There is a lot of different areas in between no development
and fully developed. But, let us review the Code before we even get into that gray
area. I'll make a motion to Table the application of Angelo Padovan.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
23. Proper-T Permit Services, Inc. on behalf of SALVATORE GUERRERA requests
a Wetland Permit to construct a dwelling with on-site sewage disposal system
and public water. Construct fixed walkway 4'X 178', hinged ramp 4'X 16', and
floating dock 6'X 20'. Floating dock to be secured by two piles. Located: 1450
Ole Jule Lane, Mattituck. SCTM#122-4-44.6
POSTPONED UNTIL JANUARY AS PER THE AGENT'S REQUEST
24.Architecnologies on behalf of CHRISTOPHER M. & GLORIA GROOCOCK
requests a Wetland Permit to construct an addition to the existing first and
second floor. Located: 1030 West Creek Ave., Cutchogue. SCTM#103-13-8
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
FRANK NOTARO: I'm with Architecnologies on behalf of Mr. & Mrs. Groocock,
and I'm here to answer any questions. I have some sketches that might assist us
in the discussion.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Sure bdng them up.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Did you put the dock on there?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We spoke with the Groococks because they were going to
upgrade their docking facility there. We encouraged them to put in all on one
permit.
MRS. GROOCOCK: We didn't have enough time to do that.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: To tell you the truth, I'd like to see it cleaned up before
our permit is acted on. This was we can get that cleaned up. Right now, it is a
violation, but it's a silent violation. It's to their benefit to get it out of there before
the ice comes and moves it around all over the wetlands.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We would be happy to issue a dock permit there.
FRANK NOTARO: If I may, the red indicates the existing house and garage
towards the roadside, and an existing deck. What we're proposing to do is put a
one and one-half story in the spot of the existing deck. Replace it with that. Also,
a pre-fab conservatory on even space, one-story, along the line of the existing
house. Most of the work will be taking place on the second floor and towards the
roadside. This is the proposed floor plan and this is the road elevation and the
water side elevation.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just like we told the previous applicant, we like to keep all
the houses in line because (inaudible) and then of course it does tend to
destabilize the bluff. Whatever they want to put there is fine but it should be in
line and no further seaward than what exists now.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: That big tree was going to have to come out.
FRANK NOTARO: No, that's why the conservatory...
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Oh, you flipped it around?
FRANK NOTARO: No actually the large trees are over here, right beyond this
point. The existing house comes out to here.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Right, and their going to go out 15'.
FRANK NOTARO: Right, and the tree is right here. It's a little bit deceptive
because the existing house is about 4' higher. So that was the whole concept of
putting it up here as opposed to putting it here because then we would have to
disturb the trees here and they need them to stabilize the bank.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That was the concern with the Board. The house is
coming out an extra 15'.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well it's so close to the top of the bluff, then you've got to
put your drywells in and you're digging right on top of the bluff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If that could be moved back by any chance, it would be
fine. Basically, anything they want to do there is fine, but we don't want to see the
house go any further seaward.
FRANK NOTARO: Than the line of the existing house?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's right. I don't think we have a problem with the deck
because the deck is existing.
MRS. GROOCOCK: The reason we particularly want a building built where the
present deck is now, is because we want to make that into our bedroom so that
we don't have to go upstairs. My husband has arthritis and we need to be on one
level.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well we don't have a problem with the bedroom but we
can't have, and we just had that with Paskoff, they came in with an application to
put a house further seaward then the neighbors, quite a bit, and we had to move
it back in line with the neighbors, because that's our policy to keep the houses
back. One neighbor goes out and then next year the other neighbor is going to
be here next.
MRS. GROOCOCK: Well the neighbor two houses down from us, is much further
out toward the water than we are.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: But that's all relative because the actually terrain goes like
this.
MRS. GROOCOCK: know it does but as far as from the water to the house,
they are still closer to the water than we are.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well we're trying not to continually make these mistakes.
MRS. GROOCOCK: So, this deck is here now and we would like to have that be
our bedroom.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We wouldn't have a problem leaving it as a deck, but to
make the bedroom, you can see the impact here. First of all, there would be
major excavation near the bluff, which we wouldn't want anyway, to destabilize
that. You can see how much further it would come out in the front, with structure.
A downstairs bedroom is fine but we don't want to see anything seaward of the
house.
MRS. GROOCOCK: But that's the most practical place for this bedroom.
FRANK NOTARO: The configuration of the house is very old inside and it's not
conducive to major changes in there.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I think the distance between here and the top of the bluff is
greatly reduced. There is very little room between here and the top of the bluff.
MRS. GROOCOCK: It would be the same distance to what's now the deck.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well the deck exists already. It doesn't really shed any
water. But, there's excavation involved here. We all kind of thought it was a little
to close to the top of the bluff.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Especially where you have room in the back to put
anything you wanted in. You don't have to press it seaward to the bluff, to
destabilize the bluff, if you don't have to.
MRS. GROOCOCK: I didn't want out there looking at the road. I wanted a deck
here. The conservatory is a garden room and my husband and I are gardeners
and we want a greenhouse.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Our policy is to keep them in line.
MRS. GROOCOCK: This bedroom area is very important to us to have it on the
main level.
FRANK NOTARO: Is there anyway we can just look at this as if this were not
there. There really is no view restriction where this wooden deck is.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're concerned with the integrity of the bluff. The
Groococks told us that their bank, they feel, is unstable and whatnot, and to have
major construction there is not going to help it.
MRS. GROOCOCK: (inaudible)
TRUSTEE KRUPKSh You would be hurting yourself. You would be spending all
of this money to correct whatever was done.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I can go out there tomorrow and measure it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Do you want to look at it again? This seems important to
them.
TRUSTEE FOSTER:Ithink if we all have these concems, Ithink we want to be
pretty sure about our decision, so maybe we should. We were all pretty sure that
we didn't want it to happen when we were there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh This is important not only to keep the houses in line, which
we have a policy of doing, but also destabilizing the bluff. So, if you would like,
we can take another look at it instead of making a decision here tonight, that you
would be unhappy with.
MRS. GROOCOCK: But my point is, the houses were not in line in the first place
when we bought the house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well that's what we're going to take a look at, in light of
that. You know what we mean by keeping them in line.
FRANK NOTARO: No, I do.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's pretty important in a waterfront community.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Have it staked.
FRANK NOTARO: Sure. When would you be going out next?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: We wouldn't be going until next field inspection.
FRANK NOTARO: I mean, just from my observations, I know what you're saying
to keep them in line. There doesn't appear to be any kind of view restriction to
the neighbor.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: No, actually I don't think that was really a concern, the
view. It was more the destabilization so close to the bluff, the run-off. Drywells
would also be required. Once that addition goes up, you don't have a lot of room
to Put drywells in. You would have to go upland. It gets pretty restrictive as far
as geeing anything done.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh It's a pretty big project. The CAC recommends Disapprova
because the project wasn't staked. Had the CAC been out to visit you? Ok,
weYe going to take a look at it next month, so please meet us out there. We'll
look at it with those two things in mind.
MRS. GROOCOCK: Is that tomorrow?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No, it's January 16% In the meantime, if you could put that
floating dock and ramp, and catwalk and all of that on the application. It will give
you time to do all of that.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: They might as well do it all the same time.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I'd recommend that the floats that are there now, be
removed. It's a violation. If somebody called up it would be a violation. It
shouldn't be there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Is there anyone who could remove those floats?
MRS. GROOCOCK: I guess my husband and I will get the' hammer out and start
taking it apart.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well it doesn't matter who does it. It doesn't matter who
builds the house. We're not going to say you have to build the house or
anything. It's just that it is a problem, we were out there before.
MRS. GROOCOCK: We were going to do it. It's just that one has to do things in
stages and we've got to get our living quarters straightened out first and then
work on the property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh From our standpoint, those docks are doing damage to the
environment because every time the tide comes in and out and there's a storm,
they break the marsh apart and they're doing damage there. So, from our
standpoint, that's a priority, if they're doing environmental damage. We're not
saying you can't have a dock. We're saying we'd be happy to grant you a permit
for a dock that's not going to do that kind of damage to the marsh.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: We'd rather you had the dock than pull the floats and the
boat up in the marsh.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We don't want to say you can have this kind of house of
that kind of house because we like the way it looks or whatever. We're looking at
it strictly from the other side from the environment side saying what is this house
going to do to the environment. Is it going to destabilize that bank? That's the
angle we're looking at. We're not worried about that we want the bedroom here,
or the conservatory here, that really doesn't matter. It's the building itself. How is
that going to effect the environment?
MRS. GROOCOCK: Well we are concerned about the bank, and certainly as
you know when we talked with you, we wanted to build it up, stabilize it, and we
know it needs to be done.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh But from our standpoint, that's the priority because there is
environmental damage being done today, tomorrow and the next day, and we'd
rather see that remedied as quickly as possible.
TRUSTEE KING: That addition just might aggravate it more.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh That damage is being done everyday.
FRANK NOTARO: Is it possible to built this on pilings to do the least damage?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: To put it on pilings?
FRANK NOTARO: Just the bedroom extension.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh You wouldn't have excavation then.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: In this case where you really wouldn't have excavation, I
think it would certainly lessen the im pact.
FRANK NOTARO: That's just a proposal or a suggestion. Again, I'm not an
expert but there is a certain amount of, what I would consider, stabilized, not a
great deal, but a certain amount before you get to the area that has the erosion,
and if the Board could just look at that again.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well we looked at that with the Groococks and we were
struck by...we thought it was a stable vegetated bank right directly in front and
they told us it was unstable. They of course own the property and believe it's
unstable. We should look at it again and be sure, because this is a big project.
I'll make a motion to Table the application.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
25.Architecnologies on behalf of ELLEN D. ZIMMERMAN requests a Wetland
Permit for the alteration to the existing second-floor. Located: 500 South Lane,
East Marion. SCTM#38-6-11
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I looked at this. I just had a couple of questions actually,
There's a minimal of 3.5 cy. of excavation on the permit. I didn't see on the plan
where it indicated any excavating.
FRANK NOTARO: The second floor does encompass a little bit of the existing
concrete stoop. I have a plan.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Yes, I'd like to see it.
FRANK NOTARO: In other words, this little bump out here is in line with the
stoop. Again, it's existing, In other words, on the first floor what we're proposing
is just bump that out in line with that.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's just a 4' foundation. It's just going to be a crawl space.
FRANK NOTARO: This deck just was there and it will remain and the sunroom
will remain. The primary work is going on the second floor. That's just to kind of
identify the entrance to the house because the house is turned sideways. That's
where the 3.5 cy. comes in.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I think it's ok. I just think we should look for some hay
bales up there because there is a little excavation. Do I have a motion to close
the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded, ALL AYES
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I'll make a motion to Approve the application with the
condition that a mw of staked hay bales be put around the front of the house
during construction.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
26.Young & Young on behalf of PECONIC LANDING AT SOUTHOLD INC.
requests a Wetland Permit to construct bluff area improvements including
leaching catch basins, ecological landscaping in wooded areas, brushy areas
and disturbed areas. Located: 1205 Main Rd., Southold. SCTM#35-1-25
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone on behalf of the application?
TOM WOLPERT: I'm from Young & Young and I'm here to answer any
questions or discuss any concerns you have regarding this bluff enhancement
plan that we submitted.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Have they started that yet, the 100' test area or is that
what this is all about?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh No, I hope not. Are there plans here? I'm looking at this
and it's dated November 7~h. I don't think that's it.
TOM WOLPERT: That is it. We submitted it on November 5~h.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ok. "A" would be ecological landscaping wooded areas,
remove the vines, "B" would be remove the Bittersweet, Sumac, Virginia
Creeper, Wild Grape, and re-vegetate with Bayberry, Red Cedar, Heather, Big
Blue Stem, and "C" ecological landscaping in disturbed areas, Bayberry, Red
Cedar, Heather, Big Blue Stem, and "D" would be construction areas, set of one
8' diameter 12' deep leaching pools. Artie can you take a look at this?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Yes, I'm going to. Did we have this when we had that
meeting the other night?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Yes, but the discussion was that we were going to let them
do one part and see what it looked like, but we would require that the drywells be
put in.
TRUSTEE SMITH: When I went up there Sunday, everything was graded, the
grass was planted, but there were no drywells.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I thought there was an area, when we were out there, and
we talked about this, but there was one area that appeared to me that the bluff
Sloped back towards the land, to the west side.
TOM WOLPERT: I think over the 2700 linear ft. of shoreline that we have here,
we have a little bit of everything.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: But I thought the test area should be on an area where it
tends to come back, because you need to cut a lot of this stuff down during
planting and so forth and if you get a storm event or something in there, it would
tend not to wash over if it was...in that particular kind of situation. When we were
walking out there, I'm pretty sure towards the west end of the project, it was like
that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Somewhere in here I think.
TOM WOLPERT: The west end of the project would be sheet 1 or 3.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Where the ponding areas are, obviously that's a lower
area.
TOM WOLPERT: I think the test area should be in one of the areas where the
reports say to put in a leaching pool.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Right, because that's a collection point. The water would
tend to come in there.
TOM WOLPERT: Right, that's a collection point and this is a demonstration type
project and that involves excavation. But we have six opportunities to do that
because we have six areas where we are proposing to put in this catch basin.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is that going to be adequate for drainage?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It's hard to say. You would have to do the calculations.
Tom's the Engineer. He should figure out what it should be. What do you base it
on a 2" rainfall? Of course, there are a lot of things you factor. I think the
formula is a lot different for a grass area, isn't it, than it is for a paved area
because the grass tends to soak up a lot of the water. Given all of those different
conditions, I'm sure...is that how you calculated it?
TOM WOLPERT: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I guess this operation couldn't have any tolerance for
blowing the bluff out.
TOM WOLPERT: Any potential?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any tolerance. In other words, if you developed say at
swale Number 2 here, if you developed a serious gully here going over the bluff, I
guess it would be in the best interest of the Peconic Landing to fix that situation
quickly.
TOM WOLPERT: Absolutely.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: What are the soil conditions up towards the bluff? Is it
good coarse sand and gravel?
TOM WOLPERT: We haven't actually gone and dug a test hole yet.
33
TRUSTEE FOSTER: They did an awful lot of excavation for the basements and
we were up there and I think they're all pretty sandy.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is because they cut into the bank. What's the unit that's
cut into the bank there? It's 34 or 33. It's all sand there.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It should support drainage given the right material.
TRUSTEE KING: All it needs is the drywells. They'll contain the roof run-off and
the natural run-off?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They're going to handle it all, right?
TOM WOLPERT: Well that's what we're proposing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: My feeling is that if these drywells put in don't work, you're
going to have a problem. They better put drywells in pretty quickly.
TOM WOLPERT: I think also, with success of the demonstration project as well
as the Ultimate plan, is that, and I'll just call your attention to the notes on the
right hand side Where all the work is going to be done, using hand tools only, with
the exception of, the installation of the drywellS, obviously we'll need some
equipment, and 'that the work would be done under the supervision of our
env rOnmenta! manager, Jeff Seaman, who would be on the site.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: He was wth you that night, right?
TOM WO, LPERT: Yes, and unfortunately he Couldn't be here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Another concern we had was at the end here. You've got
one drywell here. I think what we would like to see here, at least for this one, not
this one, is another drywell with,the roof run-Off directed. Well maybe that's
enough to tak~ both run-off, directed directly into a drywell.
TOM'WQLPEiRT: I would like this Board to at least consider that or give us the
oppo~unities to substantiate that that is sufficient rather than just make a blanket
cond[ on that every cottage needs to have a drywell for the roof run-off.
TRUSTEE KRU PSKI: This was area.with great potential for roof run-off.
TOM WOLPI~RT: I know that's an area of concern.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: What are :they going to do with that retaining wall up there?
If you fall~.off that you'd kill yourself. Are they going to put up a rail or something?
TOM WQLPERT: They're talking about putting up a rail. We are now also
planning ~)n a timber guard-rail along the end of the pavement.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh We would like to see, and I think we'll put it in the
conditions, that 38 and 39 ...
TOM! WQLPERT: Have drywells for roof run-off.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, drywells connected to 38 & 39. There's a high point
here right?
TOM WOLPERT: Maybe you want to do this area here.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I don't think there's a view there anyway. Basically this is
what you?e trying to achieve, isn't it Tom, to get some kind of a view?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well how about right in here then?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: They want a Iow spot.
TOM WOLPERT: In these designated areas "A" & "B", that's where we are
looking to remove the evasive. "C" is just restoring areas that have been
disturbed and "D" of course involves the leaching catch basin.
34
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Can I make a motion to Approve the plan with the
proposed landscape action in a 100' area to be designated, and we can draw it
on here tonight, and that ail restoration work can proceed in the "C" areas and all
drywell could be put in immediately. Then, following a review by the Board, we
can proceed with other areas of the other landscape plan. Can I make that a
motion? Is that clear enough Lauren?
LAUREN STANDISH: What was the condition?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The proposed landscape action can be...what do you
suggest for the "A" and the "B"?
TOM WOLPERT: I really don't care.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Or a little bit of both.
TOM WOLPERT: Probably "A" & "D".
TRUSTEE KRUPSKh Well "DJ' you're going to do anyway. "C" and "D" you're
going to get anyway. Pick a spot.
TOM WOLPERT: What about this area, somewhere in here, 35 & 36.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI.' Sure. How about 37 & 38? You get "A" and you get "B"
TOM WOLPERT: Ok. '
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'll say by cottage 37 & 38 and he can use his discretion
to move it.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
MEETING AJOURNED AT: 10:40 PM
Respectfully submitted by,
Lauren M. Standish, Senior Clerk
Board of Trustees
RECEIVED
/,o · '--/,_~-.
dAN 2 4 2002