HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-04/03/2014 Hearing 1
1 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEAL
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
2 ------------------------------------------- X
3 TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
4
5 ------------------------------------------- X
6
7 Southold Town Hall
Southold, New York
8
9 April 3 , 2014
9 : 41 A. M.
10
11
12 Board Members Present :
13 LESLIE KANES WEISMAN - Chairperson/Member
14 ERIC DANTES - Member
15 GERARD GOEHRINGER - Member
16 GEORGE HORNING - Member (Left at 2 : 19 p .m. )
17 KENNETH SCHNEIDER - Member
18
19 VICKI TOTH - Secretary
20
21
22
23 Jessica DiLallo
Court Reporter
24 P . O . Box 984
Holbrook, New York 11741
25 ( 631 ) -338-1409
2
1
• 2 INDEX TO HEARINGS
3
4 Hearing Page
5 Breezy Shores Community, Inc .
6 ( Steven Flotteron) #6704 3-7
7 Jarred Field #6715 7-18
8 Mario N . Belletti Family Trust #6733 18-41
9 Albert Palumbo, #6734 41-47
10 Pan Brothers Management , Inc . #6735 47-57
11 John Corbley, #6732 57-65
12 North Fork Building, Inc . #6736 65-71
13 Michael Murray and Theresa Ward #6731 72-83
14 Southold Historical Society #6737 83-130
15 Robert & Maryann Amabile, #6726 131-142
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 3
1 HEARING #6704 - BREEZY SHORES
2 COMMUNITY, INC . ( STEVEN FLOTTERON)
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The first
4 application before the Board is for
5 Breezy Shores Community, Inc . (Steven
6 Flotteron) , #6704 .
7 MR . BROWN : Robert Brown, architect
8 for Mr . Flotteron . Mr . Flotteron is also
9 here . You have a letter from ( In
10 Audible ) . So my office would like to
11 make one amendment to that .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay .
13 MR . BROWN : And that is , there is a
14 bullet point notated in the roof line .
15 There is a slight dormer on the side of
16 the house to provide some lighting . That
17 said, in terms of the footprint , we
18 amended the plan based on our previous
19 appearance to 2 . 8% increase in order to
20 provide some additional rooms . Other
21 than that , if you have any questions .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Actually, I
23 think you just raised a very important
24 term, legal side, because that certainly
• 25 adds to the reason for the expansion . As
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 4
. 1 you know, a vast majority, in fact all of
2 the structures that we have permitted up
3 to a certain expansion and most of them
4 were like 1% or less . They were either
5 mechanical , code conforming head room,
6 things like that . And here this is to
7 create another habitable area . We have
8 your letter . We have your elevation
9 floor plan . Does the Board have any
10 questions?
11 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Based upon the
12 determination of another bedroom, are you
. 13 saying the bedroom is the minimum --
14 MR. BROWN : The minimum dimension .
15 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: And is that an
16 interior interioration or an exterior
17 interioration?
18 MR. BROWN : Minimum horizontal
19 dimension is 17 .
20 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Thank you .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else
22 anybody?
23 (No Response . )
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Would you like
• 25 to say something Mr . Flotteron? Just
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 5
1 state your name .
2 MR. FLOTTERON : Steve Flotteron .
3 7 Sage Boulevard, Greenport . The property
4 in discussion . If you look at Cottage
5 #11 , it really is the same exact
6 structure . I think it ' s similar . So it ' s
7 pretty much the same thing .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : He needed a
9 bathroom.
10 MEMBER HORNING : The use is seasonal ;
11 correct?
12 MR. FLOTTERON : Yes .
. 13 MEMBER HORNING : Can you define
14 seasonal?
15 MR. FLOTTERON : Personal water to be
16 shut off in the place, basically from
17 Thanksgiving to Easter . My primary
18 residence is in Brightwaters , Long
19 Island . So this is more for the summer
20 for the children and the wife . I
21 purposely bought this because it was
22 seasonal in a sense . The other kids , it ' s
23 also seasonal . So they know each other .
24 MEMBER HORNING : So when does your
. 25 water get turned on?
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 6
. 1 MR . FLOTTERON : Water has not been
2 turned on yet in the development . They
3 wait to the freezing has stopped . I am
4 probably going to turn my water on in two
5 weeks . We will probably be out one or
6 two weekends in June until we get out of
7 school .
8 MEMBER HORNING : Is it fair to say
9 then seasonal would mean between April
10 through November?
11 MR. FLOTTERON : Yes . That is the way
12 the whole development is .
13 MEMBER HORNING : Thank you .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone
15 else in the audience that wishes to
16 address this application?
17 (No Response . )
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. Hearing
19 no further questions or comments , I make
20 a motion to close and reserve decision to
21 another date .
22 Is there a second?
23 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
25 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 7
• 1 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Aye .
2 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
3 MEMBER SCHNEIDER : Aye .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
5 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
6 ******************** ****************** **
7 HEARING #6715 - JARRED FIELD
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
9 application before the Board is also a
10 carryover, Jarred Field, #6715 . So I
11 will not read the legal notice again .
12 Good morning both of you . State your
• 13 names for the record .
14 MR. FIELD : Good morning . Jarred
15 Field .
16 MR. SAMUELS : Tom Samuels .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We just got
18 this yesterday. So this is what has to
19 be sent over to the Building Department
20 for the calculation of livable floor
21 area . Tom, have you done that because it
22 wasn ' t on your drawings?
23 MR. SAMUELS : Livable floor area?
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes .
• 25 MR. SAMUELS : 544 square feet .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 8
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I calculated it
2 at 541 . 08 , and the porch at 179 . 2 and
3 even if you include both of those, that ' s
4 720 square feet . What we got from your
5 recent narrative was that there 400 of
6 the roof was dormered . We don ' t have a
7 second floor plan . We don ' t have a
8 section to show how that works , where the
9 pull-down ladder comes into play. So I
10 think we ' re going to need a little bit
11 more information from you . I think the
12 height is all right . I have to check. I
• 13 think for the size of your property, the
14 height is 22 . So I think we are all
15 right on that .
16 MR. SAMUELS : Is that something that
17 you want prior to your determination?
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I just think
19 that we need to get it from you before
20 we deliberate so that we could include
21 it in the decision . Do you know what I
22 mean?
23 MR. SAMUELS : I can do that within the
24 next few days .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Now, the other
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 9
• 1 thing that we don ' t have and you usually
2 do or you started to do in the original
3 proposal, we need to have an analysis of
4 the percentage of the structure that is
5 saved . So that we can presume that it' s
6 not a demo . You say so on the
7 narrative , but you usually do so on
8 the --
9 MR. SAMUELS : Yeah . The question at
10 the last hearing was how you are
11 calculating it because what we had done
12 for another project was sort of framed
• 13 footage of squared wall and then we are
14 not going to do it that way anymore . We
15 are thinking of ( In Audible) space . How
16 do you think we should calculate this
17 square footage?
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You know, the
19 code in my mind is not terribly clear
20 and we get a number of different
21 applications and people seem to
22 calculate it differently and I am not
23 even sure -- I think the Building
24 Department intended it to be habitable
• 25 space as preserved . I believe that is
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 10
• 1 what their intent was although it isn ' t
2 clear . Otherwise, you would be doing
3 piece by piece and what percentage is
4 stud and adding up the frames .
5 Basically you are preserving the outer
6 shell --
7 MR. SAMUELS : Right
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : - and sister it
9 up with new --
10 MR. SAMUELS : We are creating a
11 greater volume but the entire volume is
12 within the existing . So in a way, we
13 are preserving 1000 . Logic, doesn ' t
14 seem like the right way but it does --
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You know what
16 might seem best, would be for you to go
17 check with Mike . Just go have a
18 discussion with Building and whatever
19 agreement you and Mike reach in terms of
20 how to define what is being preserved, I
21 think will be fine .
22 MR. SAMUELS : Okay .
23 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Does this
24 structure have -- not the part that seems
25 to be running with the garage, does this
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 11
1 have flooring?
•
2 MR . SAMUELS : Just in the smaller
3 area to the north . There was a shed of
4 some sort . The rest if garage . There
5 really is no floor structure .
6 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: What is the
7 nature of what is going to happen with
8 the garage? Is that going to be a
9 separate structure?
10 MR . SAMUELS : There is not going to
11 be a garage that is going to be part of
12 this application .
• 13 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : We are talking
14 abut he garage that presently exist
15 there, in the back?
16 MR . SAMUELS : In the back. That
17 becomes part of this dwelling .
18 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : So the new
19 structure will be super implanted into
20 this structure?
21 MR. SAMUELS : Correct .
22 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: That will be
23 added to this structure?
24 MR . SAMUELS : It is already added to
• 25 this structure .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 12
• 1 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I understand .
2 MR . SAMUELS : I am not sure if we are
3 lifting it or not or how it ' s going to be
4 stabilized . I am not sure . And then put
5 the framing and then the outside . This
6 is the way that we did it once before on
7 another structure .
8 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Is the existing
9 structure and the proposed structure ( In
10 Audible) .
11 MR. SAMUELS : Yes , it is .
12 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I was not at the
• 13 last hearing and I apologize . What is
14 the purpose of the demo?
15 MR. SAMUELS : To create space ,
16 because it' s such a small house, the dad
17 is a builder and interested in making it
18 bigger with ocular space . One side you
19 have a loft and a loft on the left side
20 for some storage .
21 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Thank you .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What we were
23 talking about is whether to move it to a
24 more conforming side yard . Obviously we
• 25 all want more conformity on the code but
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 13
• 1 part of this whole proposal is to
2 salvage what is there and replace in
3 kind . So you know, it ' s kind of like
4 what is the better way to go? You have
5 a CO for the structure sitting where
6 it' s sitting . What is the side yard?
7 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: It went from 12 to
8 14 presently.
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Your conforming
10 side yard is under 25 feet because of
11 the size of the property . At least that
12 is what it shows on there .
• 13 MR. FIELD : You know, I don ' t want to
14 move the building at all . It ' s
15 preexisting and been so for many years .
16 So I don ' t see any reason to move it . We
17 are not increasing the footprint as
18 decided by you at the last meeting . So I
19 don' t think it ' s really an issue .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The only reason
21 is now there is a foundation and so on .
22 I will tell you what you could certainly
23 do because now you' re going to have to
24 pour a foundation . You can just make
• 25 the whole thing 15 feet .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 14
• 1 MR. FIELD : Yeah . And that is
2 predicate that this is not a demo?
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right .
4 MR. FIELD : I understand that .
5 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: You can show us
6 the access on this proposal and show us
7 how to access the second floor, and go
8 over it with the Building Department and
9 your calculations for it not being a
10 demo . And get something in writing from
11 the Building Department saying that no,
12 this is not a demo . And then we can
13 proceed from there . Is everyone okay
14 with that?
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is all we
16 need . Confirmation . If we do have the
17 drawings stamped, then they would
18 probably send it back to us . Okay,
19 anything else from anybody?
20 (No Response . )
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So let me just
22 go over . We need confirmation from
23 Building of the 500 plus or minus
24 livable floor area . We need section,
• 25 second floor loft plan . And we need the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 15
• 1 calculation of the percentage of the
2 demo . And make sure when the foundation
3 goes in, it' s a 15 foot side yard.
4 MR. FIELD: There was another issue
5 that I was talking to Tom about and I
6 wanted to run it past you, is we are
7 proposing to lift this up and put it
8 back down on a foundation . Now, you
9 know, a crawl space would be nice .
10 Would a full basement be an issue?
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think it
12 probably would be, but I am not sure .
• 13 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I think there
14 would be too . I don' t think there is
15 anything wrong with a three foot crawl
16 space .
17 MR. FIELD: From my standpoint , I am
18 going to lift the structure up . Put it
19 on the side and put a poured foundation
20 and footings and everything else . For
21 me, I am putting all the expense, I
22 would love to dig another four feet and
23 put a full basement in it . You know, I
24 have no storage in it at all . It would
• 25 be nice to have a basement in it,
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 16
• 1 instead of a crawl space .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Legally
3 accessory structures don' t have
4 basements .
5 MR. SAMUELS : But I don' t think the
6 code prevents it .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : As general, if
8 the code doesn ' t say that you could do
9 it, specifically, then you can ' t .
10 MR. FIELD : And what about a crawl
11 space?
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : No, a crawl
• 13 space is just a mechanical thing .
14 MR. FIELD : Wouldn ' t the Building
15 Department have issued a Notice of
16 Disapproval?
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well you didn ' t
18 propose a basement . So they didn' t have
19 a chance to evaluate it . You could talk
20 to Mike about it .
21 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Then show it on
22 the drawing .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : If he will
24 confirm that a basement would be
• 25 allowable , then the Board could
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 17
• 1 entertain it . It is certainly liveable
2 floor area . It ' s not in a conforming
3 side yard . Perhaps the compromise is ,
4 if you want to put in a basement and
5 it' s allowed, then it should have a
6 conforming side yard.
7 MR. FIELD : If that is an option,
8 then I would have to weigh that option .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let' s look at
10 both of those then . The Board is not
11 trying to be descriptive or prohibit
12 anything, but we need to find out what
• 13 is exactly allowed . Why don' t we do
14 this . Let ' s adjourn this to the Special
15 Meeting in two weeks , that way you guys
16 can look into this and get some drawings
17 and go to the Building Department . Then
18 if it' s all we need, we will just close
19 the matter and deliberate or if we have
20 any questions , then we will just ask you
21 and continue a month from now to do
22 another meeting . Hopefully we won ' t do
23 that and we will get all the answers
24 that we talked about . Try to get it
• 25 before the meeting, so we have a chance
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 18
• 1 to look at it .
2 MR. SAMUELS : I will call Mike
3 today .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All right .
5 Is there anyone else in the audience
6 that would like to address this
7 application?
8 (No Response . )
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there
10 anything else from the Board?
11 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: No .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So I am going
• 13 to make a motion to adjourn this hearing
14 to the Special Meeting on April 17th .
15 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
17 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
18 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Aye .
19 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
20 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
22 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
23 *************** ** **** ********************
24 HEARING # 6733 - MARIO N . BELLETTI
25 FAMILY TRUST
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 19
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
2 application before the Board is for
3 Mario N . Belletti, #6733 . Request for
4 variances from Article III Section
5 280-15 , C& D, and the Building
6 Inspector ' s October 25 , 2013 , amended
7 November 8 , 2013 Notice of Disapproval
8 based on an application for building
9 permit for reconstruction with an
10 addition to preexisting, nonconforming
11 storm damage accessory garage, at ;
12 1 ) location other than the code required
• 13 rear yard, 2 ) proposed roof dormers at
14 more than the code maximum of 400 of the
15 roof width, 3 ) proposed square footage
16 exceeding the code permitted 750 square
17 feet maximum, located at : 4700 Wickham
18 Avenue in Mattituck .
19 Is there someone here to address this
20 application? Would you please just come
21 to the podium and state and spell your
22 name for us .
23 MS . GRIFFIN : My name is name is Mary
24 Griffin . M-A-R-Y G-R-I-F-F-I-N .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me review
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 20
• 1 what we have here . This is an R-80
2 Zone . The structure is partially in a
3 side yard as opposed to a rear yard.
4 1280 square feet has been proposed . The
5 code allows a maximum of 750 . This is
6 deemed to be a complete demolition . And
7 dormer that exceeds the code permitted
8 maximum of 400 of the roof width . Can
9 you tell us what the percentage of roof
10 width is?
11 MS . GRIFFIN : Im sorry, what?
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The dormer? The
• 13 code allows 40% . They appear to be
14 running the entire length of the roof on
15 both sides?
16 MS . GRIFFIN : Right .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So then it would
18 be 100% of the roof width . Is that
19 correct?
20 MS . GRIFFIN : They are not 100% of the
21 roof width . They are less than that, but
22 I am 100% sure what that percentage is .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , we need
24 to find that out for starters . The
• 25 proposal is to use that for attic
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 21
• 1 storage . The garage is also to be a
2 workshop unheated?
3 MS . GRIFFIN : Uh-huh .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have a 1976
5 Certificate of Occupancy that showed a
6 32x40 foot structure, and why are you
7 proposing to enlarge it by another 4x32
8 feet?
9 MS . GRIFFIN : The reason we are
10 enlarging it is because my father ( In
11 Audible ) the garage was knocked down
12 during Hurricane Sandy . He uses it as a
• 13 workshop . He has always used it as a
14 workshop . He builds . He does wood work
15 and some metal work . He would access
16 the attic by a ladder . We don' t want
17 him on a ladder . We want to install
18 some steps .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You couldn ' t do
20 it in the original footprint?
21 MS . GRIFFIN : Well , he had
22 workbenches in there . We have all that
23 storage right now . So we couldn ' t
24 figure out how to move that equipment
• 25 around so that he could get in there .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 22
is 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It' s a very
2 large structure . The code only allows
3 750 .
4 MS . GRIFFIN : It was preexisting . It
5 was always a large structure .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Once it' s
7 demolished --
8 MS . GRIFFIN : It' s not 1000
9 demolished.
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Every one of us
11 was there . It' s demolished. It' s not a
12 usable structure .
• 13 MS . GRIFFIN : Oh, I agree with you
14 100% .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So the question
16 becomes since that pre-CO permitted you
17 to have a quite large structure, which
18 is no longer in place, that is why the
19 Notice of Disapproval said exceeded 750 .
20 Certainly, in consideration may be taken
21 by the Board to the fact that you had a
22 CO for a large structure, but the
23 enlargement of the structure of what was
24 there certainly is a really big
• 25 structure . Unless you can come up with a
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 23
• 1 substantial reason other than personal
2 preference because the code that we have
3 to follow for granting relief from the
4 code do not include hobbies or personal
5 convenience . The CO runs with the land .
6 If you sell the property, it stays
7 there .
8 MS . GRIFFIN : We are not selling the
9 property.
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It ' s going to
11 be there a long time .
12 MS . GRIFFIN : Is it the additional
• 13 four feet for the staircase? Because we
14 don' t have to do that . We wanted to
15 just make it safe for him to access the
16 attic .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , let' s
18 see . You want to put it back where it
19 was , which is a nonconforming location .
20 MS . GRIFFIN : Well , my father has
21 Social Security . He has limited income .
22 In order to remove it , we have to tear
23 up the driveway and remove the driveway
24 for where they would want to put the new
• 25 building. So that would be an
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 24
is 1 additional expense for him. That is why
2 we wanted to put it back where it was .
3 We were hoping we could save the
4 foundation, so that he wouldn ' t have to .
5 MEMBER HORNING : Did you explore
6 alternative ideas to help eliminate some
7 of these variances? For example, you
8 were just mentioning the driveway. I
9 mean, you could conceivably use a part
10 of the existing slab as the driveway .
11 It' s setback to a conforming rear yard .
12 MS . GRIFFIN : We would have to take
• 13 it out completely .
14 MEMBER HORNING : You couldn ' t work on
15 it?
16 MS . GRIFFIN : No, they said if we
17 wanted to extend the driveway, we
18 couldn ' t do that . I mean, I don' t even
19 know how you could do that .
20 MEMBER HORNING : Filling in whatever
21 you needed. The grade changes -- it
22 didn' t appear to me , I believe .
23 MS . GRIFFIN : It has to actually
24 touch the slab so that it could conform
• 25 to where you put in a new driveway . And
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 25
• 1 then you would have to remove all the
2 slab and they would have to re-pour
3 another one . We are actually trying to
4 save the slab at this point , if we
5 can .
6 MEMBER HORNING : How did the building
7 get destroyed? Can you give us some
8 detail on that?
9 MS . GRIFFIN : Hurricane Sandy
10 happened.
11 MEMBER HORNING : Do you have before
12 and after photos?
13 MS . GRIFFIN : Oh, yeah . I actually
14 -- I think there is one .
15 MEMBER HORNING : There is only after
16 photos . Looks like it was taken this
17 winter .
18 MS . GRIFFIN : I am almost sure that
19 it was given with the file .
20 MEMBER HORNING : That Maple tree fell
21 down in the storm?
22 MS . GRIFFIN : It flattened it . It
23 literally flattened the building .
24 MEMBER HORNING : It was a single
25 block structure?
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 26
• 1 MS . GRIFFIN : Single block structure .
2 We couldn ' t afford it to re-block .
3 Literally could not afford it .
4 MEMBER HORNING : And then what
5 happened. A tree fell down and knocked
6 the cinder block structure and took it
7 away?
8 MS . GRIFFIN : Yes , because the one
9 wall was leaning, and we were afraid
10 that it was gonna fall on somebody
11 walking on the side . The tree came
12 through, it was through the garage . It
13 looked like -- you know, the walls were
14 cracked . The walls that were cracked,
15 we tore down for safety issues . The
16 only one with the tree trunk against,
17 that apparently protected it . There was
18 considerable damage . All the windows
19 got blown out . The doors got destroyed .
20 The tree was unbelievable -- how large
21 that tree was . It was an old Maple . I
22 am going to guess that it was probably
23 about 12 feet . The stump is still
24 there . It ' s leaning against the house .
• 25 I think the house was built in the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 27
• 1 401s . We had to pay somebody to come
2 and cut up the tree and remove the tree .
3 It actually went through the garage and
4 into next of the garage . That ' s how big
5 it was .
6 MEMBER HORNING : Could you give us
7 some calculation as to the difference in
8 grade from the top of the driveway where
9 you pull up to the garage and the garage
10 slab? I mean, if it was used as a
11 garage, how would you be able to use
12 your ( In Audible ) here, if you say you
• 13 can ' t --
14 MS . GRIFFIN : I don' t understand
15 where it would be a safety issue . First
16 of all , the property is an odd shape .
17 So one way the garage makes conformity
18 and the other way it does not . So they
19 looked at the way that it does not make
20 and went from the garage to the front
21 yard . And then in order to move it, I
22 think it' s 5 or 7 feet . That means ,
23 that instead of pouring the slab to get
24 to the garage , we had to use that as a
• 25 driveway. Move that garage , we would
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 28
• 1 still need to put a slab under the
2 garage .
3 MEMBER HORNING : Our job basically is
4 to analyze situations and come up with
5 the least amount of variance as
6 possible. So I am suggesting to you, if
7 it is at all feasible to move the garage
8 to five feet . If you could move it to a
9 code conforming location but relocating
10 it five feet and entirely in the rear
11 yard . That is why I am asking if you
12 came up with any alternative plans . So
• 13 you can reduce the number of variances .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , hold up
15 one second, George . I just want to
16 enter this into the record. I am
17 looking at this survey and the original
18 CO calculated the rear yard with a line
19 that is parallel to the street and
20 declared it to be in the code conforming
21 rear yard .
22 MS . GRIFFIN : Right .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The current
24 method of calculating is showing the
• 25 dockyard line . That line is parallel to
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 29
• 1 the rear property structure . That line,
2 they ' re determining that this , the
3 preexisting garage, is in the side yard .
4 So first it was conforming and then it
5 wasn ' t conforming .
6 MS . GRIFFIN : Right .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : In terms of the
8 location . Okay. We ' re not sure what
9 the percentage of the dormers are but
10 they are right --
11 MS . GRIFFIN : Right .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They are very
. 13 substantial . Usually dormers like that
14 are put in for habitable space .
15 MS . GRIFFIN : We want him to be able
16 to work with it . He has always gone up
17 there .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Again, I
19 understand from your family perspectives
20 trying to customize something for your
21 fathers personal preference . The law
22 doesn ' t allow us to consider personal
23 preference . The law allows us to look
24 at characteristics of the neighborhood .
• 25 MS . GRIFFIN : Right across the street
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 30
• 1 they have a garage and the dormer and
2 the neighbor next door has a garage and
3 a dormer .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , those
5 dormers were put into place before the
6 code changed in 2007 . And so when
7 something is demolished, you start over .
8 That is why the Board is taking into
9 consideration of what was there and
10 relative to size, as opposed to
11 proposing something brand new and bigger
12 in size . We wouldn ' t be so inclined to
• 13 allow such a large structure if it
14 wasn ' t already there .
15 MS . GRIFFIN : Right .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So my
17 suggestion is to consider the width of
18 those dormers , which would provide some
19 head room but not the entire -- it turns
20 it into a full second story second
21 floor . Is it proposed to be heated?
22 MS . GRIFFIN : Not proposed to be
23 heated .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Proposed to be
• 25 finished?
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 31
1 MS . GRIFFIN : No .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Wood frame or
3 stucco again?
4 MS . GRIFFIN : We are going to do
5 stucco . No block. It' s going to be
6 wood with stucco to match the house . We
7 could not afford the block . We wanted it
8 to just look like the house, so that it
9 doesn ' t look like it was just stuck on
10 the property.
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The height is
12 okay because of the size of your
• 13 property. This is called out as two
14 floor .
15 MEMBER HORNING : When did the Building
16 Department start revising on how they
17 calculated rear yards?
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I can ' t tell you
19 that . The original CO is quite old .
20 MS . GRIFFIN : The house was zoned at
21 one time two family industrial . They
22 changed the zoning on it to one family
23 residential . And my family wasn ' t even
24 aware of it .
25 MEMBER HORNING : Then you probably
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 32
• 1 even weren ' t aware that they changed the
2 side yard --
3 MS . GRIFFIN : No, I was not .
4 MEMBER HORNING : That is a question
5 that I would certainly ask if I were
6 you --
7 MS . GRIFFIN : I did. I asked many
8 times .
9 MEMBER HORNING : They could amend the
10 Notice of Disapproval to remove the
11 citation.
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That ' s the way
• 13 they calculate it now . They can ' t go
14 back and use it . Once it ' s changed,
15 it' s changed.
16 Is there anyone else in the audience
17 who would like to address this
18 application?
19 (No Response . )
20 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Can you please
21 give us some pictures of what it was
22 before?
23 MS . GRIFFIN : I thought I had given
24 the pictures .
• 25 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No, I don' t have
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 33
1 it .
2 MEMBER DANTES : Do you know if the
3 Board had granted any previous relief in
4 this neighborhood for properties such as
5 this?
6 MS . GRIFFIN : I don' t know . I do
7 know that his neighbors do have dormers
8 on top of their garage . I know the
9 house across the street has an art
10 studio . That is kind of the identical
11 garage that my father is looking to put
12 up there .
• 13 MEMBER DANTES : If you can go to the
14 Building Department and check the legal
15 status of those, that would be helpful .
16 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Just for the
17 record, this is an older area . Yes ,
18 Ms . Griffin is correct in the fact that
19 the only variances that I am aware of
20 this particular time, is probably across
21 the street . You may want to check on
22 that . We haven ' t had any variances in a
23 long time . It' s an older area .
24 MS . GRIFFIN : You do have to
• 25 understand . We didn' t expect this to
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 34
• 1 happen . This has taken so long . And
2 then my mom got sick .
3 MEMBER HORNING : You are going to
4 give us the percentage of the proposed
5 dormers because we don ' t have that? Can
6 you give us your proposed percentage of
7 the building being in the side yard?
8 MS . GRIFFIN : Okay .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : George, didn' t
10 I give you my copy of that?
11 MEMBER HORNING : No, I looked . Is
12 there an attic?
• 13 MS . GRIFFIN : That is what the
14 dormers were going to be . There was
15 always an attic . In fact , when the storm
16 knocked it down, they had to replace
17 some of the equipment that was up
18 there . They gave him money for the
19 woodworking .
20 MEMBER HORNING : What kind of access
21 was there?
22 MS . GRIFFIN : It was an attic . We
23 don' t want him to use the ladder . He' s
24 too old . We lost our mom in August .
• 25 MEMBER HORNING : Sounds like a rather
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 35
• 1 fragile situation .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have just
3 given us a little bit better image . It
4 doesn ' t look like it' s two stories .
5 MS . GRIFFIN : It was a two story . The
6 tree actually flattened it . Someone in
7 the Building Department actually said he
8 couldn ' t believe that that happened .
9 The year before, we had gotten a price
10 to have the tree removed and had gotten
11 a price of $2 , 000 . 00 and my parents did
12 not have that type of money to take down
• 13 those trees . My brothers were actually
14 going to try and take that down . Then
15 Hurricane Sandy came and took it down
16 themselves .
17 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Maybe we can get a
18 copy and have it in the file . Hurricane
19 Sandy is a big part of your argument
20 here . So maybe we should have that in
21 your file as well .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there
23 anything else from the Board?
24 MEMBER DANTES : Just to have a
• 25 picture of what was there .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 36
• 1 MS . GRIFFIN : I think I have lots of
2 pictures with the tree in it . I am not
3 sure if I just have pictures of just the
4 garage . I will look . It is
5 freestanding .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I suspect that
7 there is no real substantial reason what
8 the dormer shouldn ' t be conforming to
9 the code . I mean, it ' s just a
10 convenience to be able to stand up and
11 have the clearance . There is a reason
12 why the code permits no more than 400 .
• 13 MS . GRIFFIN : He always had that . He
14 just looking to replace what he had.
15 The attic is pretty much not that much
16 over his head . We tried to make it
17 light, so that he could actually work up
18 there . We don' t want him on the ladder .
19 Forget about it .
20 MEMBER HORNING : My father passed
21 away at 89 . I see a lot of people pass
22 before 85 . I don' t know how old your
23 father is . People don' t live forever .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The fact of the
• 25 matter is , accessory buildings can be
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 37
1 used for a range of different things .
2 We need to look at the structure itself,
3 the size which are nonconforming, the
4 location, which is nonconforming --
5 MS . GRIFFIN : Right .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We can grant ,
7 that is justifiable, the minimum that we
8 are allowed to grant . That is what we
9 are obligated to do, it' s not like we
10 just make this stuff up as we go along .
11 The law requires us to do it .
12 MS . GRIFFIN : I agree with that .
• 13 This was preexisting --
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I understand
15 that . You have to understand something,
16 whether there is a total demolition that
17 is preexisting status , goes away. It' s
18 gone . The CO is gone because your
19 structure is gone . If you were allowed
20 to replace exactly what you had, you
21 would not be before us . So it' s just to
22 be clear with you, I understand your
23 rational personally . But our job is to
24 help you understand what the law is . I
• 25 don' t think that is what you are going
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 38
• 1 to want but that is the law . Anything
2 that you can do to provide us with more
3 examples , an aerial map, that would
4 help . Documentation can be shown to
5 show the character of the
6 neighborhood .
7 MS . GRIFFIN : Okay .
8 MEMBER HORNING : I am confused why
9 you can ' t tear up the concrete and pour
10 the concrete and then eliminate one of
11 the variances .
12 MS . GRIFFIN : To move it back to the
• 13 original -- I mean, we were trying to
14 save the slab . That is what we were
15 trying to do . We were originally told
16 from the builder that we would have to
17 rip out the slab . That is what we were
18 originally told . Then they said they
19 might be sable to save it . Remember,
20 it' s the cost . My father got some
21 insurance money to cover it .
22 MEMBER HORNING : That is my question .
23 Why can ' t you extend the slab and put
24 the whole building in the rear yard?
• 25 MS . GRIFFIN : If we move the building
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 39
• 1 into the back lawn, we were going to
2 pull up the slab entirely .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay . Anything
4 else from the Board?
5 (No Response . )
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Make a motion
7 to close this hearing subject to receipt
8 of your insurance claim and any
9 documents that you can provide of the
10 existence of other large structures
11 along the street . If you happen to find
12 any photos , we just confirm that the
• 13 pre-co talks about a two-car garage . It
14 doesn ' t say two-story . It wasn ' t a full
15 second story, it probably had an
16 attic .
17 MS . GRIFFIN : It had an attic .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And if you can
19 have it to us in the new couple of days
20 so we can deliberate at the Special
21 Meeting in two weeks from today. That
22 is the earliest . If you can ' t get it
23 done by then, then it would be at our
24 next meeting, which would be a month
• 25 from today . And then another two weeks
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 40
• 1 at the Special Meeting . There is a
2 Special Meeting on the 17th, in the
3 Annex Building .
4 MS . GRIFFIN : Then I can come to that
5 meeting?
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can come
7 and listen . We can ' t take testimony .
8 We only take testimony here . If you
9 want to call Vicki and ask her if we are
10 prepared to deliberate, then we will see
11 if we have what we need in order to
12 deliberate . You don' t have to come .
• 13 You can call the next day and find out
14 what the resolution was .
15 MS . GRIFFIN : Okay .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We will have 62
17 days from the time that we receive it to
18 make a decision . We have to do it in 62
19 days .
20 MS . GRIFFIN : Okay.
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So I have made
22 the motion .
23 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
• 25 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 41
• 1 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye .
2 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
3 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
5 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
6 ************************************ *****
7 HEARING #6734 - ALBERT PALUMBO
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
9 application before the Board is for
10 Albert Palumbo, #6734 . Request for
11 variances from Article XXII Section
12 280-116A ( 1 ) and Article XXIII 280-124
• 13 and Section 280-15 ( F) and the Building
14 Inspector ' s January 30 , 2014 amended
15 February 25 , 2014 Notice of Disapproval ,
16 based on an application for building
17 permit for reconstruction of a deck to a
18 roofed over addition to an existing
19 single family dwelling and existing
20 shed, at : 1 ) less than the code
21 required setback of 100 feet from the
22 top of the bluff, 2 ) less than the code
23 required combined side yard setback of
24 25 feet, 3 ) existing shed at less than
• 25 the code required front yard setback of
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 42
• 1 35 feet and less than the code required
2 side yard setback of 3 feet , located
3 at : 1095 Aquaview Avenue, adjacent to
4 Long Island Sound, in East Marion .
5 Would you please state your name and
6 spell it for us?
7 MR . PALUMBO : Albert Palumbo,
8 P-A-L-U-M-B-O .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So we have a
10 corrected Notice of Disapproval showing
11 that the bluff setback is 16 feet .
12 MR. PALUMBO : Yes . A little over .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The side yard
14 setback is 21 . The code requires 25 .
15 That was granted in a prior appeal .
16 MR. PALUMBO : Yes .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : And then the
18 existing accessory setback is supposed
19 to be at 35 feet --
20 MR. PALUMBO : That ' s correct .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So it' s a
22 replacement of your existing deck .
23 MR. PALUMBO : When we received the
24 original approval -- we just want to
• 25 square it off and give it some steps
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 43
1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have all
2 been there by the way .
3 MR. PALUMBO : We just wanted stairs
4 and I wanted to add the roof over for
5 the sun .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have no
7 intention of closing it?
8 MR. PALUMBO : No . We had no
9 intention of doing it but the
10 dermatologist said, if you want me to
11 cut your nose off then stay in the sun .
12 It caught my attention .
13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I would think
14 so . We did get the letter from your
15 neighbor. Just so you know .
16 MR. PALUMBO : I did get some photos
17 of the block, if you would like to see
18 it?
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes , that would
20 be helpful . We have a letter -- because
21 it' s waterfront, we have a letter from
22 Suffolk County Soil and Water who also
23 inspected the site , to ensure there was
24 not going to be a problem with bluff
• 25 erosion . I also got a letter from the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 44
• 1 LWRP Coordinator, which is required of
2 waterfront property --
3 MR . PALUMBO : Okay .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : He is
5 indicating that what is proposed is
6 consistent with policy . Soil and Water
7 did not have any issues with the
8 property. The bluff seemed stable .
9 They were only recommending that the
10 stormwater runoff from the roof be
11 placed into a drywell .
12 MR. PALUMBO : Yes .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So why don' t I
14 give you a copy of both letters . Okay .
15 Well from the point of view, the shed
16 seems to me to be the only feasible
17 location on the property . Seems to be
18 unintrusive .
19 MR. PALUMBO : Yes .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don' t see any
21 impact on the neighborhood or the
22 neighbors . How long has the shed been
23 there?
24 MR. PALUMBO : 17 years .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So far so good .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 45
• 1 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: What is the size
2 of the shed?
3 MR. PALUMBO : 6x8
4 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: And is there any
5 way you move the shed to have a greater
6 front yard setback?
7 MR. PALUMBO : Well , if we move it ,
8 then it would be right up against the
9 house . And basically when we did put it
10 in, the Town told us it had to be in the
11 rear and three feet . That is where we
12 put it . I just stick the lawnmower in
• 13 there and some gardening tools . If I
14 moved it there, then I couldn ' t get in
15 the house . We have a nice apple tree
16 that I don' t want to remove . That is
17 the reason why if we can leave it where
18 it is .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric?
20 MEMBER DANTES : No questions .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We are just
22 exploring all the options because we
23 have to . Another possibility, can you
24 look into the possibility of a
• 25 retractable awning?
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 46
• 1 MR . PALUMBO : I found that they don' t
2 work that well on the Long Island Sound .
3 I actually had a bigger house and had a
4 retractable awning . I went in to take a
5 shower and when I came back out , it flew
6 up and over the neighbors house and on
7 the next persons property . So I
8 realized it didn' t work out very well .
9 Now, one of the neighbors put one on,
10 you have to take it down during the
11 winter and store it . That is why we get
12 the idea of putting something permanent .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right . Okay.
14 Anything else from the Board?
15 (No Response . )
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else
17 from the audience?
18 (No Response . )
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay . Hearing
20 no further questions or comments , I will
21 make a motion to close this hearing and
22 reserve decision to a later date .
23 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
• 25 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 47
• 1 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Aye .
2 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
3 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
5 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
6 ********** ************ ************ *****
7 HEARING #6735 - PAN BROTHERS
8 MANAGEMENT, INC .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
10 application before the Board is for Pan
11 Brothers Management , INC, #6735 .
12 Request for variance from Article III
• 13 Section 280-15 and the Building
14 Inspector ' s November 15 , 2013 Notice of
15 Disapproval based on an application for
16 building permit for "as-built" accessory
17 garage, at : 1 ) proposed location other
18 than the code required rear yard,
19 located at : 475 Golf View Court in East
20 Marion .
21 Would you state your name for us ,
22 please .
23 MR . PANTELIS : Michael Pantelis .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Would you
• 25 please spell it for the record?
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 48
1 MR . PANTELIS : P-A-N-T-E-L-I-S .
• 2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you . So
3 we see that there are two accessory
4 garages symmetrically located in the
5 front elevation . Has a building permit ,
6 7 /8 /13 that was referring to these two
7 garages as attached and a conditioned
8 space . So we now have them not
9 attached. Can you tell us what
10 happened?
11 MR. PANTELIS : Sure . The reason why
12 we didn' t attach it to the building ( In
• 13 Audible ) between the building and the
14 garage, there was -- it was pushing us
15 away. We never took that into
16 consideration, the wind impact . The
17 existing structure is built by the way .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have seen
19 it . We do inspect the site .
20 MR . PANTELIS : Okay. Thank you very
21 much . And then I stop and see, there is
22 no other reason . I saw the wind coming
23 in and said something has to stop .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That ' s odd,
• 25 there is no wind from the Sound .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 49
• 1 MR. PANTELIS : It was coming from the
2 north . I think it ' s going to be noisy
3 or tunnelly because of the wind .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : On your
5 application, you said there was a wind
6 tunnel effect , but I am not entirely
7 familiar with that .
8 Eric, any questions?
9 MEMBER DANTES : Sure . I am looking
10 at the page that says reasons for
11 appeal . So with the character of the
12 neighborhood ( In Audible ) in the front
13 yard, how does that effect the character
14 of the neighborhood?
15 MR. PANTELIS : Better neighborhood
16 and a different effect . The garage --
17 don' t forget is being built according to
18 the drawings . It creates something
19 different .
20 MEMBER DANTES : Are there any other
21 garages in the front yard area?
22 MR. PANTELIS : Yeah .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I understand
24 why the location is sensible because of
25 the driveway and the code allows you to
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 50
• 1 put garages in the front of the house
2 when they are attached . That is why you
3 get a permit to do that . Otherwise they
4 have to go into the rear yard. They are
5 accessory structures and the concrete
6 slab that is there is not considered an
7 attachment . It' s considered a walkway.
8 It' s difficult , I suppose when something
9 is already built and the money has
10 already been spent , it' s not like you
11 can pick it up and move it . Many people
12 have attached garages that are off the
• 13 street . Or if they are on waterfront
14 property they are allowed to be in the
15 front yard, as long as they meet the
16 principal setback of the house . So I
17 guess we are kind of stuck here .
18 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I have to be
19 honest with you . I have seen some of
20 the most magnificent water that you guys
21 have created . There are tremendous
22 artists in building these structures ,
23 the garages and the house . What is in
24 those two areas on the ground floor that
• 25 those windows -- is that living room
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 51
• 1 area, bedrooms? What are they?
2 MR. PANTELIS : On the left , that is
3 living room and the other room is
4 bedroom.
5 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : You couldn ' t
6 close anything that would access the
7 garage doors , not the doors themselves
8 and through that court yard on both
9 sides and basically attach this to the
10 house?
11 MR. PANTELIS : I already install
12 those doors . The reason ( In Audible )
• 13 you know the wind effect that was taking
14 place, I am coming up -- I am about 10
15 feet or so and the wind is about 75 .
16 It' s a tunnel . And that is why I close
17 it .
18 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: So you don' t
19 think you can construct anything that
20 wouldn ' t cause a tunnel effect?
21 MR. PANTELIS : It' s going to be a
22 supersized structure . It will be some
23 semi circle .
24 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: The only
• 25 advantage to asking that question is , if
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 52
• 1 you kept it low enough you probably may
2 not incorporate that wind tunnel effect .
3 The slab may even be conforming enough
4 to support something like that .
5 MR. PANTELIS : You know, that wind
6 really bother me . The wind and the
7 aesthetics .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have not had
9 the benefit of really looking at the
10 full set of drawings . We only had an
11 elevation that you provided . The bottom
12 line is , there is a lot invested in
• 13 these buildings . They are not
14 inexpensive to build . Nevertheless , if
15 there is a way to attach it , then that
16 solves the problem. If they are not
17 attached, they have to go in a
18 conforming location . Otherwise, you
19 have to prove that there are a lot of
20 other garages in the front yards in that
21 neighborhood . It' s characteristic and
22 it isn ' t . We have driven around . So we
23 can ' t argue that . We have to see if
24 it' s a substantial variance or not .
• 25 There will be two structures that are
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 53
• 1 100% relief from the code . We would
2 have to find reasons to mitigate that on
3 why we would allow a 100% variance .
4 MEMBER HORNING : Is this your own
5 home?
6 MR. PANTELIS : Yes , sir .
7 MEMBER HORNING : So you submitted
8 plans to the Building Department and you
9 got approvals for everything that you
10 wanted to do .
11 MR. PANTELIS : Yes ,
12 MEMBER HORNING : And then you went
• 13 back to the Building Department and
14 said, hey, I don' t want to do that
15 anymore . How did you get this Notice of
16 Disapproval?
17 MR . PANTELIS : Okay . I am not going
18 to lie to you . We had an inspection and
19 went through the inspection stages . The
20 old Building Inspector ' s with the new
21 Building Inspector ' s did an inspection .
22 They said it was not approved . I said,
23 what are you crazy . What do you mean it
24 not approved? I have the paperwork. I
• 25 have been a builder all my life . To
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 54
• 1 make a long story short , I explained to
2 him why I left it open . That was the
3 first time I went through the Building
4 Department ( In Audible ) .
5 MEMBER HORNING : Looking at the
6 reasons why we ask you to make the
7 appeal and you fill it out , character of
8 the neighborhood . It seems to be a
9 rural setting out there . I didn' t see
10 any garages out in the front yard that I
11 saw . In speaking with the character of
12 the neighborhood and the reasons why you
• 13 wanted it , it' s 100% variance . You say
14 original drawings were submitting
15 showing garages and a permit was issued
16 by the Building Department . The permit
17 was issued because you had attached
18 garages , is that not correct? The
19 Building Department would not give you a
20 permit to build two detach garages .
21 They would not do that without a
22 variance . Creating a wind tunnel . The
23 benefits sought by the applicant cannot
24 be achieved -- I don' t understand the
• 25 wind tunnel effect and how many days
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 55
• 1 during the years it occurred, and your
2 answer is , that you can ' t do anything
3 except what you now want to do even
4 though you got permits before . You need
5 a variance . You say creating a wind
6 tunnel as per previous plans . I don' t
7 understand the wind tunnel effect . You
8 said it was already approved by the
9 Building Department . Again, they would
10 not have approved two detached garages
11 in the front yard. The amount of relief
12 is substantial because it' s 100% relief,
• 13 as the Chairperson already indicated .
14 So I don' t see anything makes any sense
15 for wanting the reasons . Statement #4 ,
16 the variance will not create an adverse
17 effects , and you refer to original plans
18 were approved and permits were issued .
19 And you go on and on . What you were
20 permitted to build you don' t want to
21 build.
22 MR. PANTELIS : Can I show you --
23 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Yes .
24 (Whereupon, Mr . Pantelis approached
25 the Board and not present near a
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 56
1 microphone . )
2 MEMBER DANTES : Do you know how many
3 lots are developed?
4 MR . PANTELIS : With mine , it' s two .
5 MEMBER DANTES : So there are two
6 developed lots . Do you know if the land
7 on the beach access is developable .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Can you just
9 come and speak into the microphone?
10 MR. SANDE : Michael Sande, S-A-N-D-E .
11 I am the secretary of Pebbles Beach
12 Farms . That land is five acres of
. 13 preserved farm land . It can never be
14 developed.
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : In the winter,
16 you can see from Golf View Court .
17 Do you have anything that you would
18 like to share with us?
19 MR. SANDE : No, I don' t think it has
20 any impact on the Board.
21 MEMBER DANTES : So what I am getting
22 at , is the area around the house is
23 limited and not going to be a populated
24 area?
• 25 MR . PANTELIS : No, it ' s not going to
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 57
• 1 be a populated area .
2 MEMBER DANTES : Okay .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else
4 from the Board?
5 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Not from me .
6 Anyone else in the audience that
7 wishes to address this application?
8 (No Response . )
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay . Hearing no
10 further questions and comments , I will
11 make a motion to close the hearing and
12 reserve decision to a later date .
13 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second.
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
15 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
16 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Aye .
17 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
18 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
20 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
21 * ***************************************
22 HEARING #6732 - JOHN CORBLEY
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
24 application before the Board is for John
25 Corbley, #6732 . Request for variances
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 58
• 1 from Article XXII Section 280-116B and
2 Article III Section 280-15 and the
3 Building Inspector ' s November 12 , 2013 ,
4 updated February 4 , 2014 Notice of
5 Disapproval based on application for
6 building permit for deck addition to
7 existing single family dwelling, at :
8 1 ) less than the code required bulkhead
9 setback of 75 feet , 2 ) upon completion
10 of proposed deck addition existing
11 accessory shed will be in a location
12 other than the code required rear yard,
• 13 located at : 680 Mason Drive, adjacent
14 to Haywater Cove, Cutchogue .
15 Good morning .
16 MR . CORBLEY : Good morning .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We had just
18 received a letter from the LWRP
19 Coordinator indicating that your proposed
20 action is consistent with policy . Let me
21 give you a copy of that for your records .
22 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: John Corbley is a
23 neighbor of mine and a friend of mine .
24 So I am going to recuse myself from this
• 25 hearing .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 59
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So let' s see , we
2 have a deck. A 60 foot bulkhead setback
3 where the code requires 75 . The survey
4 shows 58 feet . Am I right? Am I reading
5 that right?
6 MR. CORBLEY : ( In Audible ) survey . The
7 only line that wasn ' t on my new survey,
8 which is pretty new . Vicki said I needed
9 to get a licensed engineer to come up
10 with the numbers . So on one of these
11 papers , which is separate, should have
12 Mark Schwartz stamp on it .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes . This one .
14 The Notice of Disapproval says it' s 60
15 feet from the bulkhead. Now, what were
16 they looking at? They were probably
17 scaling it off .
18 MR. CORBLEY : Probably scaling it
19 off .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It just shows 78
21 feet on the diagonal and 64 feet to the
22 existing patio .
23 MR. CORBLEY : I think Mark' s numbers
24 are the right numbers . I have actually
• 25 two bulkheads . One is concrete about ,
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 60
• 1 four feet . The rest is wood . So that is
2 to the numbers to the concrete, which is
3 closer to the house . Can I also offer
4 some background?
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Sure .
6 MR . CORBLEY : We got flooded out by
7 Hurricane Sandy . We had about 2-3 feet
8 of water in the house . As a result of
9 that , my wife and I decided to elevate
10 the building . Watched that for 18
11 months transpire . So now instead of the
12 house being directly on the ground on a
. 13 slab where you directly walk out the
14 back towards the water, now the house is
15 up here . Four feet and change . So
16 instead of putting three steps and blue
17 stone, we built a patio over the old
18 bluestone patio .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes . You had to
20 move your hot tub up to the deck?
21 MR . CORBLEY : Yes .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We do inspect
23 all the properties prior to the hearing .
24 MEMBER HORNING : And why are they
• 25 citing 60 feet?
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 61
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don' t know .
2 Maybe they have this survey, George .
3 They might have just scaled it . So
4 that' s what they did . The Building
5 Department scaled it off at 60 feet and
6 Mark made his stamp and said it was 58 .
7 I think we should just go ahead and say
8 that it' s 58 .
9 MEMBER HORNING : Sir, before the
10 storm, was there a second story deck?
11 MR. CORBLEY : Yes , I was showing that
12 yesterday when you were over . We had a
• 13 fairly large deck, maybe a third of the
14 size of that Bluestone on the ground and
15 was supported by two posts on the water
16 side . Approximately 12 feet from the
17 house . What we decided to do when we
18 build, is get rid of the deck and the
19 two posts .
20 MEMBER HORNING : And how did you
21 access that deck?
22 MR. CORBLEY : Through a slider
23 upstairs . Years ago, it used to have
24 stairs . There is a 8 foot slider
• 25 upstairs .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 62
• 1 MEMBER HORNING : What happens now
2 when you open up that slider?
3 MR . CORBLEY : Guess you walk out onto
4 a 5x12 feet small upstairs deck that
5 cantilevers off the side of the
6 building .
7 MEMBER HORNING : And when was the
8 original house built?
9 MR . CORBLEY : In the late 501s , early
10 60' s . Somewhere around that date . I am
11 not sure .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There is no
• 13 drywell noted on here for the hot tub .
14 You know, I had a hot tub for a number
15 of years . You have to change the water
16 on a number of times basis . Are you
17 proposing to put in a drywell for
18 dewatering?
19 MR. CORBLEY : I actually hadn ' t been
20 asked that question . I didn' t realize
21 that was required. I do have a drywell
22 on the corner of that building where the
23 hot tub is on that side . Right there .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I don' t think
• 25 it' s on the survey . I don' t see one .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 63
• 1 MR . CORBLEY : There is one for that
2 down spout .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well you can
4 plug one into that .
5 MR. CORBLEY : Okay .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You have a
7 unique piece of property . We want to
8 make sure that the water doesn ' t run
9 into the creek . The shed, it' s a
10 technical issue . It is what it is .
11 It' s a small shed. Partially now in the
12 side yard because of the elevated deck.
. 13 When it' s attached to the house, it
14 becomes part of the house . Gerry, do
15 you have questions?
16 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Yes , I have
17 questions . Just for the point of
18 knowing this , there are approximately
19 three hand dredged canals . Where those
20 other houses flooded out?
21 MR. CORBLEY : My house was clearly
22 the lowest house . Neighbor to my left ,
23 he flooded up to his floor joists . He
24 is two or three cinder blocks higher .
• 25 My house had no block . Nothing .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 64
• 1 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : So how far was the
2 water up on your house?
3 MR. CORBLEY : About 20 inches .
4 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : And what about
5 Mr . Smith' s house?
6 MR. CORBLEY : I don' t know . They are
7 not always there . So there is no one to
8 talk to .
9 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: So there is no
10 indication that the roof is going to
11 enclose the deck at all?
12 MR. CORBLEY : No .
• 13 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Thank you .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric?
15 MEMBER DANTES : No, I don' t have any
16 questions .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : George?
18 MEMBER HORNING : No .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone
20 else in the audience that would like to
21 address this application?
22 (No Response . )
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay. Hearing no
24 further questions , I will make a motion
• 25 to close this hearing and reserve
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 65
• 1 decision to a later date . Is there a
2 second?
3 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
5 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
6 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Aye .
7 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
9 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
10 ********** * ** * ******* ******** ******* **
11 HEARING #6736 - NORTH FORK BUILDERS ,
12 INC .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
14 application before the board is for
15 North Fork Builders , 6736 . Request for
16 variances from Article XXIII Section
17 280-124 and the Building Inspector ' s
18 February 20 , 2014 Notice of Disapproval
19 based on an application for building
20 permit for additions ( including front
21 porch and second story) and alterations
22 to an existing family dwelling, at 1 )
23 less than the code required front yard
24 setback of 35 feet , Knapp Place , 2 ) less
• 25 than the code required front yard
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 66
• 1 setback of 35 feet , Bailey Avenue, 3 )
2 less than the code required minimum rear
3 yard setback of 35 feet, located at : 755
4 Knapp Place, corner of Bailey Avenue in
5 Greenport .
6 Hi . Could you please just state your
7 name?
8 MR. GORMAN : Hi . I am Bill Gorman .
9 North Fork Builders , in which I am one of
10 the shareholders . So it' s a fairly simple
11 application . Just adding a couple of
12 dormers . The front porch is going to be
13 moved a little closer . Our conditions
14 that are existing, is that this is caddy
15 cornered on the side lot . We have very
16 little to do . To justify the porch, it ' s
17 a craft style neighborhood . We would like
18 to keep that characteristic going . And
19 they are open porches and they are closed
20 porches . There are a couple of properties
21 in the neighborhood that are pretty close
22 to the size of the front yard . None of
23 them are 11 feet . That is what we are
24 asking . Can I show you photos?
25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Sure .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 67
1 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Can I ask you a
• 2 question before you leave? I had looked
3 at this property, are any of these
4 porches out of this area? Are they over
5 here?
6 MR. GORMAN : They are across the
7 street . Here . There . And here and there .
8 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Okay . Great . Thank
9 you .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me just go
11 over on what you are asking for . You are
12 asking for three variances . The property
13 is on a corner lot . We have a proposed
14 second story roof dormer and a front
15 yard addition . We have a front yard
16 setback of 9 . 6 feet . I don' t see where
17 that is . Not on this survey .
18 MR. GORMAN : It' s actually 11 feet .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Let me see the
20 Notice of Disapproval . I think they
21 scaled it .
22 MR. GORMAN : That' s what I think they
23 did .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I see the 22
• 25 feet . Okay . I am going to go by the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 68
1 survey of 11 feet . And then there is a
2 front yard setback of 22 feet . And a
3 rear yard setback of 29 . 5 feet .
4 MR. GORMAN : I wanted to mention one
5 other thing . It would be nice to have
6 the option of reversing the roof
7 direction and putting the gable in the
8 front of the house rather than the side
9 of the house . If that would be okay --
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It' s not
11 creating any new nonconformity.
12 MR. GORMAN : It ' s not .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Then just give
14 us new drawings . When we stamp the
15 drawings, it ' s what you want to build .
16 MR. GORMAN : It was just a thought . I
17 didn' t want to open anything up .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : If you can get
19 the drawing in and there is no new
20 nonconformance . We would look at that as
21 an amended application .
22 MR. GORMAN : It ' s just a roof change .
23 Not a height change .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , if you
• 25 really want to, adamantly want to make a
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 69
• 1 change, you send it back to us with an
2 amendment . So if you want to make a
3 change, it ' s highly recommended that you
4 do it before . Otherwise, we will just go
5 with what you gave us .
6 MR. GORMAN : That' s fine .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Questions?
8 MEMBER DANTES : What would you say is
9 the average setback?
10 MR. GORMAN : You can see that there .
11 I should have probably noted that and I
12 didn' t . I think on those photos , it' s
13 about 16 feet . The neighbor to the north
14 is about 13 feet .
15 MEMBER HORNING : Can you submit that
16 in writing?
17 MR . GORMAN : Sure . 16-18 feet is along
18 Bailey Avenue .
19 MEMBER DANTES : And is there any other
20 locations that would be more conforming?
21 MR. GORMAN : I think of the house
22 were square and pushed back, I
23 understand from the neighbors, that
24 house was existing prior to the ( In
• 25 Audible ) . His father and his wifes '
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 70
. 1 father built that house across the
2 street when he was a young man .
3 MEMBER HORNING : According to the tax
4 records it was built in 1963 .
5 MR. GORMAN : Is that right?
6 MEMBER HORNING : This is why we like
7 to look at things on paper .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The rear yard
9 setback of 29 . 5 , can you tell me where
10 the building department os actually
11 calculating you have a rear yard? It
12 looks really tiny .
. 13 MR. GORMAN : I mean, if they are
14 counting two front yards .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It looks to me
16 that there us a side yard setback .
17 MR. GORMAN : Like there is two side
18 yards?
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes . I just
20 wanted to clarify which is a side yard .
21 It' s a weird shaped parcel . I am trying
22 to figure out how they are determining
23 that . We just have to know what we are
24 talking about .
• 25 George , any questions?
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 71
• 1 MR . GORMAN : No .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Eric, anything
3 else?
4 MEMBER DANTES : No .
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anyone else in
6 the audience who wishes to address this
7 application?
8 (No Response . )
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Now, let me ask
10 you Bill, do you want us to close this?
11 MR. GORMAN : It was just a thought .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay . Hearing
• 13 no further questions or comments , I will
14 make a motion to close this hearing and
15 reserve decision to a later date .
16 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Second .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
18 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
19 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Aye .
20 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
21 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
23 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
24 **************************** ************
• 25 HEARING #6731 - MICHAEL MURRAY AND
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 72
• 1 THERESA WARD .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
3 application before the Board is for
4 Michael Murray and Theresa Ward, #6731 .
5 Request for variances from Article XXIII
6 Section 280-124 . Article XXIII Section
7 280-122A and Article III Section 280-15 ,
8 and the Building Inspector ' s
9 January 21 , 2014 . Amended
10 January 27 , 2014 Notice of Disapproval
11 based on an application for building
12 permit for additions and alterations to
• 13 existing single family dwelling and
14 conversion of existing barn to workshop,
15 at ; 1 ) less than the code required front
16 yard setback of 40 feet from both
17 streets , 2 ) increase in nonconformity
18 for barn conversion . 3 ) barn location in
19 other than the code required rear yard,
20 located at : 375 Ackerly Pond Lane,
21 corner of Lower Road in Southold.
22 MS . WARD : Good morning . My name is
23 Theresa Ward and I am the owner along
24 with my husband, Michael Murray, and our
• 25 architect Frank Uellendahl is here as
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 73
• 1 well .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So we have a
3 front yard setback of 25 . 2 feet along
4 Ackerly and 34 . 3 feet along Willow Road
5 where the code requires a minimum of 40
6 feet ; is that correct?
7 MS . WARD : Correct .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have
9 additions and alterations . Additions of
10 a shower, where it' s currently in the
11 front yard and the code requires a rear
12 yard. These were built prior to zoning .
• 13 So why don' t you tell us a little bit
14 your plans?
15 MS . WARD : Sure . We want to be able
16 to use the barn for a workshop . So that
17 is why we wanted to put a bathroom in
18 there . It ' s a lovely structure and we
19 want to be able to use it . We want to
20 make it usable . And on the house, we
21 want to do a screened in porch for the
22 summer and glass panels to extend the
23 season, but not a year round thing . And
24 on the inside, we want to be able to a
• 25 little loft on the end and do a dormer
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 74
• 1 and get a little more height and make it
2 more reasonable for a home office .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : There is no
4 floor plans . You are proposing a use
5 for the barn, but we don' t see any floor
6 plans . Frank, did you do drawings of
7 the barn?
8 MR. UELLENDAHL : Frank Uellendahl ,
9 architect . ( In Audible ) . And on the site
10 then we show that they are putting in a
11 french door facing the yard . In the
12 corner, there will be a half bath . There
• 13 will be an outdoor shower on the side .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I see , you have
15 it blown up on the site plan . And what
16 will happen in the workshop?
17 MS . WARD : We are planning for
18 gardening and a small office space .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is that a home
20 office?
21 MS . WARD : That is what we had
22 planned. The loft inside .
23 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Is there heat in
24 there?
• 25 MS . WARD : Yes . There is heat in
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 75
• 1 there now .
2 MR . UELLENDAHL : I can see a wood
3 burning stove for the winter . We love the
4 old historic structure . ( In Audible ) . But
5 we would love to save the structure . It ' s
6 part of a historic .
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes .
8 MR. UELLENDAHL : We are trying to
9 revive this . There are a couple of small
10 sheds in the neighborhood. They are
11 still under the original survey. The
12 house itself is very, very small . It ' s
• 13 just a living room with an open kitchen .
14 That is the way they like it . There is
15 only one bedroom. That is why they would
16 like to expand this , to allow this .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , it also
18 indicates that part of the addition, 700
19 is conforming in the 40 foot .
20 MR. UELLENDAHL : It ' s an odd shaped
21 lot . We are trying to have something in
22 the backyard. So basically ( In Audible) .
23 MEMBER DANTES : If you didn' t build
24 that sunroom, what would be the house
• 25 setback?
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 76
• 1 MR . UELLENDAHL : Based on the original
2 survey, which I don' t have right here .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It ' s pretty
4 close .
5 MR. UELLENDAHL : I think it ' s a
6 quarter of the existing .
7 MEMBER DANTES : Okay.
8 MR. UELLENDAHL : 25 . 5 .
9 MEMBER DANTES : Okay. Understand .
10 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : I have some
11 questions . How are you going to
12 winterize the barn area for a bathroom
13 facility --
14 MR. UELLENDAHL : That ' s a good
15 question. In bathroom areas , it' s very
16 easy to put electric radiant heating in
17 there . It ' s very inexpensive . You can
18 keep it on low.
19 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: That is why I am
20 asking .
21 MR. UELLENDAHL : We don' t want to
22 invest a lot of money into the barn . We
23 just want to make it usable .
24 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : So when we write
25 this decision, we can indicate that as a
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 77
• 1 non-habitable structure? You' re not
2 advocating it on a 24 hour basis?
3 MR . UELLENDAHL : Well , if we were --
4 if you would allow us to put in a
5 permanent heating system --
6 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I don' t know . That
7 is why I am asking that question .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can have
9 heat . There is no sleeping facilities ,
10 that is what you --
11 MR. UELLENDAHL : We would like to
12 have that option to have heat in there,
• 13 a wood burning stove .
14 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: As long as you
15 leave here today understanding that
16 there is no living facilities .
17 MR . UELLENDAHL : No .
18 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Is that barn
19 historic?
20 MR. UELLENDAHL : It' s modernized .
21 MR. MURRAY : The barn is probably
22 1900 . The house it' s been said, 1800 ,
23 but from what I found is 1750 ' s .
24 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: The barn?
• 25 MR . MURRAY : No, the house is 1750 ' s
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 78
• 1 and the barn in 1900' s .
2 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: The only thing that
3 doesn ' t fit well with me is having an
4 outdoor shower . Personally, I don' t
5 think it fits in with the scheme of
6 historic value of it . They probably
7 didn' t have outdoor showers . There is a
8 good proximity to Ackerly Pond Lane . Do
9 you have to have that shower? Can you
10 move it somewhere else?
11 MR. MURRAY : Well , I think our idea
12 is, originally it was a completely
• 13 overgrown area . So the idea was to just
14 make it -- really more of a ( In Audible )
15 but in terms of siting another area . We
16 really don' t have much area . So that is
17 where we put it .
18 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Are you going to
19 put a floor in the shed?
20 MS . WARD : Yes .
21 MEMBER HORNING : How would you make
22 the floor in the barn?
23 MR . UELLENDAHL : Wooden planks that
24 we would have to preserve . There is
• 25 nothing there right now . But materials
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 79
1 that would work with the historic look
2 and integrity of the structure .
3 MEMBER HORNING : It wouldn ' t involve
4 pouring concrete and making a slab?
5 MS . WARD : We really haven ' t gotten
6 into the details yet .
7 MEMBER DANTES : Can you tell me about
8 the rest of the neighborhood? Is it
9 typical to be non-code conforming and to
10 be closer to the road?
11 MR. UELLENDAHL : As I mentioned
12 before, these structures are almost
• 13 noncompliant structures .
14 MEMBER DANTES : Do you know if the
15 ZBA has granted variances for those
16 buildings?
17 MR. UELLENDAHL : Probably in part .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We don' t have
19 any .
20 MR. UELLENDAHL : We have the CO' s
21 from 1974 . They were done .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Looks like the
23 house is set back from the property
24 line, 8 feet .
• 25 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: On the survey here,
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 80
is 1 shows the partially collapsed ( In
2 Audible) they don' t exist anymore?
3 MR. UELLENDAHL : No, we took them
4 away .
5 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Do you need a
6 variance to construct those?
7 Nonetheless , they are in the front yard?
8 MR. UELLENDAHL : I don' t think so . I
9 don' t think that we need a variance to
10 reconstruct those .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They probably
12 had no CO' s .
• 13 MR. UELLENDAHL : No .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Just as a
15 precaution, check with Building to see
16 if there is an issue there . That is not
17 the subject here . Just to go back to
18 what Ken said to explore the location of
19 the shower . How feasible is it to move
20 the bathroom and shower to where you
21 have the double doors? Just to make it
22 farther from Ackerly Pond?
23 MR. UELLENDAHL : I would like to keep
24 the half bath back there . That is a
• 25 better way for the room. It' s much more
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 81
• 1 open room. And then maybe attach the --
2 attach the outer shower here .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : A little bump. I
4 think that is probably -- I think Ken
5 has a valid point . The barn has a
6 historic presence and in respecting that
7 character and scale . Plus , the privacy
8 also .
9 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I think the shower
10 attached to that beautiful barn takes
11 away the architecture and style .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
• 13 Anything else from anybody?
14 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: No .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there anyone
16 in the audience that wishes to address
17 this application?
18 Please come to the mic and state your
19 name for the record .
20 MR. ANTONELLI : Carmine Antonelli . I
21 wanted to express my support for the
22 application 375 Ackerly Lane . I am the
23 owner and resident at 475 Ackerly Pond
24 Lane, and since my new neighbors have
• 25 moved in, they have improved the entire
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 82
• 1 corner . So the things that they are
2 asking to do, I feel is an improvement to
3 the corner . I have no objections to the
4 things that they are looking to do . I
5 think it' s a plus to the area .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
7 MR. ANTONELLI : I do have a question
8 while I am here . It has nothing to do
9 with today' s application . I noticed the
10 other day National Grid and whatever the
11 grid was that was installing that pipe
12 on Sound Avenue -- Ackerly Pond Lane, I
• 13 don' t know if it ' s hazardous but they
14 just left it . I am not sure if you guys
15 can do anything . Like I said, it' s
16 something that should be addressed . I
17 even spoke to Scott Russell . He said he
18 was going to look into it . I guess the
19 more people that are aware of it --
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have no
21 jurisdiction over that . Call the
22 Superintendent of Highways and make him
23 aware of the problem, and he will -
24 MR . ANTONELLI : Okay .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is part of
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 83
• 1 his job .
2 MR . ANTONELLI : All right . Thank you .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Hearing no
4 further questions or comments , I will
5 make a motion to close this hearing and
6 reserve decision to a later date . Also,
7 it will be subject to your receipt of
8 your revised site plan .
9 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second .
10 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
11 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
12 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Aye .
• 13 MEMBER HORNING : Aye .
14 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
16 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
17 * *************************** **** ******
18 HEARING #6737 - SOUTHOLD HISTORICAL
19 SOCIETY
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The next
21 application before the Zoning Board of
22 Appeals is Southold Historical Society,
23 #6737 . This is a request for Special
24 Exception under Chapter 280-45 ( 8 ) . Owner
• 25 requests authorization to operate a flea
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 84
1 (Antiques ) market, located at : 55200
2 State Route 25 , aka, Main Road, Hobart
3 Road in Southold .
4 Can you please state your name and
5 spell it for the record, we ' re recording
6 this .
7 MR . FLEMING : Sure . My name Geoffrey
8 K. Fleming, G-E-O-F-F-R-E-Y
9 F-L-E-M-I-N-G. I am the director of the
10 Southold Historical Society .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
12 Have you gotten these?
13 MR . FLEMING: Yes .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay . I just
15 wanted to make sure . I know you are
16 aware that we have gotten several
17 letters in response to this application .
18 I wanted to make sure that you had them
19 before you, so that you had the
20 opportunity to address some of those
21 concerns . So this is a proposal for an
22 18x18 vendor stalls with parking on a
23 field that is zoned R-40 and HB . This
24 is the operating May through October,
25 Sunday' s only from 10 : 00 A. M to 2 : 00
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 85
• 1 P . M . Is that correct?
2 MR. FLEMING : That' s correct .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : What else would
4 you like to say?
5 MR. FLEMING : The site is here to ask
6 permission to be allowed to operate an
7 antique' s market from Sunday' s , May
8 through October on the compound in
9 Southold. There are a few primary
10 reasons we are making this request . The
11 first is for financial reasons . The
12 annual cost for the basic maintenance of
• 13 the complex is over $45 , 000 per year,
14 $19 , 000 in utilities . $21 , 000 in
15 building maintenance and $5200 . 00 in
16 grounds maintenance . This excludes any
17 capital project costs , such as roofs ,
18 etcetera . In the autumn of 2013 , we
19 received notice that one of the trusts
20 that benefited us would be cutting its
21 distributions . The same trust further
22 reduced that amount in 2014 . The total
23 loss of the Society is approximately
24 $30 , 000 . This is an impossible amount
• 25 of make up by trimming basic costs . We
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 86
1 see having a regular event , as an event
2 to help make up for that portion of the
3 loss . The second reason is one of use .
4 The museum complex has been under
5 utilized for many, many years . While we
6 have tried to have a number of different
7 smaller programs there, they were
8 unsuccessful . We have always prided
9 ourselves on being relatively good
10 neighbors that surround us . However, ( In
11 Audible ) not so great . I would like to
12 address some of the issues that I know
13 others will bring up today . The first
14 one, many of the design areas have a
15 lack of usage of this property . They
16 have few events , other than the two with
17 the ice cream social and the candlelight
18 event . It is true that the lot faces a
19 commercial property and is not
20 residential . It ' s in the Hamlet
21 Business . And there are far more evasive
22 activities that can occur than what is
23 present here . And as an example, I
24 looked at what could be used . Retail
• 25 stores up to 6, 000 square feet ,
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 87
• 1 restaurants , barber shops , beauty
2 parlors , electrical shops, furniture
3 shops , bicycle and motorcycle repair
4 shops . These are just some of the them
5 and a few that are listed for Hamlet
6 Business and a possibility. The use is
7 in general and consistent with the
8 Town ' s Comprehensive Plan . And we feel
9 that having an antique market for 26
10 days a year out of 365 days , which is 70
11 of the year, is not evasive, and
12 reasonable use of the lot . We
13 specifically chose Sunday as the
14 quietest day in Southold. Virtually no
15 one there . Parking, for additional 15
16 to 20 vendors would be on the rear of
17 our property . This open parking is used
18 for events and open parking for a number
19 of years now . Visitor parking would be
20 along Main Road, which is for most of
21 the ZBA. The fire department that is
22 across the street as noted that access
23 must remain open . This is very
24 important and at this point , we don ' t
• 25 anticipate any more traffic . We spoke
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 88
• 1 with Marty Flatley, the Chief of the
2 Southold Police Department . He said that
3 he is not opposed to the market and
4 would monitor it and see the traffic
5 flow, and would further investigate if
6 to post a traffic officer there in the
7 busier months . At least one person who
8 was opposed called our office and
9 accused the society of proposing this
10 use behind their backs . We want to
11 emphasize that we have been nothing but
12 transparent . We took our time and made
• 13 sure that we completed all the necessary
14 paperwork, paid our fees and placed
15 notifications . There was also an online
16 article published by a local reporter
17 concerning the market . Any accusation
18 that we have done anything underhanded
19 is wildly unfair . In conclusion, I would
20 like to thank the accomplished ZBA for
21 taking their time to review our
22 application and I am happy to answer any
23 questions . Thank you .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , one of
• 25 the things that we need to get back from
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 89
• 1 the Building Department is an inter-memo
2 communication to them for all special
3 exception applications because we want to
4 know whether or not up front, whether any
5 variance relief is required, site plan by
6 a Planning Board is required, Trustees
7 and so on. We are still waiting to get
8 that from them. So we only just sent that
9 a couple of days ago . So we need to get
10 that back, just so you ' re aware and
11 understanding of the process that would
12 be involved. The Planning Board,
. 13 although suggesting that the use is
14 compatible with HB Zone, points out a
15 couple of things . That commercial
16 parcels is not permitted in a residential
17 zone unless in fact , the ZBA deems it a
18 particular section of the code to permit
19 that use . So that is one issue that has
20 to be worked out . Of course we are all
21 familiar with Maple Lane . I am a member
22 of the society. And it ' s a small quiet
23 private road . During the Christmas tree
24 lighting, it gets very clogged up .
• 25 MR . FLEMING : Yes , that is the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 90
• 1 biggest event that we do on an annual
2 basis .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So that needs
4 to be worked out . They are not sure
5 whether you need site plan approval until
6 the Building Department works out the
7 determination .
8 MR. FLEMING : Right .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We are all
10 aware of the Southold Fire Departments
11 concerns . For two times a year, it ' s fine
12 to have the kind of parking anticipated .
. 13 They allow people to park in their
14 parking lot for the biggest events, but
15 it ' s the height of the season and we ' re
16 concerned about traffic impact .
17 MR . FLEMING : There is no way to know
18 that .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Right . So can
20 you tell me who these vendors might be,
21 what kinds are things are expected --
22 MR . FLEMING : These would be antique
23 and collectible vendors . I met with some
24 of the people who were involved in the
• 25 one in Mattituck, and I said, we are not
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 91
• 1 going to allow nonsense . It would have to
2 be approved . It would not be people
3 selling food, nail polish and t-shirts
4 and that kind of stuff . They would have
5 to meet our standards to be able to
6 establish a table on our event .
7 MEMBER HORNING : Are they from
8 out-of-state?
9 MR. FLEMING : No, they would all be
10 people from Eastern Long Island .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is it fair to
12 assume that if you ' re proposing 18
• 13 vendors , you are going to have 18
14 vehicles?
15 MR. FLEMING : Yes , that would be the
16 vendor parking in the back field, yeah .
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think what it
18 boils down to is traffic impact and
19 environmental impact, environmentally
20 parking on the grass . I had placed a
21 comment to the Town Engineer regarding
22 the liability of cars parked there on a
23 fairly limited basis of cars parked in
24 that area .
• 25 How many people are here for this
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 92
• 1 application? Okay . I think what I would
2 like to do before -- let ' s get a few
3 questions from the Board and then I am
4 going to open this up to the audience and
5 get their comments .
6 Gerry, did you have any questions?
7 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I was just
8 wondering if you thought of the
9 possibility of parking in the vendor
10 parking area? You know, a close area,
11 someplace away from the site? So that
12 some people who are coming to the site ,
• 13 could park in the vendor parking area?
14 MR. FLEMING : I haven ' t looked into
15 that . Our other two properties on Main
16 Road, there is hamlet parking and we
17 can ' t sort of impose of them there
18 without getting the owners permission .
19 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : That is just a
20 thought . That is what we have been doing
21 with the Lions Club for many years . Thank
22 you .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Ken?
24 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: What is the nature
• 25 of the vendors there? Food vendors ,
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 93
• 1 music?
2 MR. FLEMING : No food and no music .
3 Just the market itself .
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Gerry?
5 MEMBER HORNING : I wanted to clarify
6 some things first . I think we have sort
7 of a survey, but it ' s not stamped and
8 dated and there is no indication of who
9 made the survey . You know, as a reference
10 for decision .
11 MR. FLEMING : Yes . I have all that
12 information . I couldn ' t fit it on a
. 13 copying machine .
14 MEMBER HORNING : Okay . We will need
15 that . Also on your application, you ' re
16 calling it Lot 5 . 2 , 62-5 . 2 , which
17 corresponds to the 5 . 2 that you also
18 submitted. But on this other one , 5 . 1 .
19 MR. FLEMING : That lot has not been
20 acquired yet on that other side .
21 MEMBER HORNING : So 5 . 2 --
22 MR. FLEMING : -- is now the lot line .
23 MEMBER HORNING : Got it . And you ' re
24 anticipating, the patrons of the proposed
• 25 market are just going to find street
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 94
. 1 parking some where?
2 MR . FLEMING : Which is what we all do
3 in that area for any event . There is
4 only a few slots on the lane that belong
5 to the Historical Society .
6 MEMBER HORNING : And right now, as
7 you say, your conversations with the
8 police department , they would monitor the
9 situations and if they deemed it
10 necessary to have some officer out of the
11 street?
12 MR. FLEMING : Yes .
13 MEMBER HORNING : That is a verbal
14 agreement?
15 MR. FLEMING : Yes . He ' s not opposed
16 to it, but he wants to see it happening
17 before he can say it would require a
18 traffic officer .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Anything else?
20 MEMBER HORNING : No .
21 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Is there any way
22 of modifying that time, let ' s say 11 : 00
23 to 3 : 00 , as opposed to 10 : 00 to 3 : 00 ? It
24 would alleviate some of the traffic
25 conditions .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 95
• 1 MR. FLEMING : We are very open to the
2 timing issue .
3 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Thank you .
4 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Do you have a
5 vendor application already?
6 MR . FLEMING : No .
7 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Do you have any
8 idea of what it would say?
9 MR . FLEMING : It would have to meet
10 our standards . Things that we don ' t
11 want . Things that would have to be
12 approved.
• 13 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: So something like
14 baseball cards?
15 MR. FLEMING : Baseball cards ,
16 antiques , some furniture . No
17 reproductions .
18 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Some may see it as
19 unfair business to competitors in the
20 area . Have you contacted the other
21 businesses?
22 MR. FLEMING : No .
23 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I have no further
24 questions at this time .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So why don ' t we
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 96
• 1 do this , I want to open it up to the
2 audience at this time .
3 Is there anyone who would like to
4 address this application? We have two
5 mic ' s . You need to go to either one of
6 them. You need to address the Board .
7 Please state and spell your name .
8 MR. RICHARDSON : Ronald, R-O-N-A-L-D .
9 Richardson, R-I-C-H-A-R-D-S-O-N . I have a
10 proposed statement that I will leave with
11 you . I live at 315 Maple Lane . In the
12 interest of full disclosure, our house is
13 currently on the market for sale . The
14 Historical Society has fundraising events
15 throughout the year . It has costs the
16 residents of Maple Lane, "private road . "
17 These events have included a hayride down
18 our street in the Fall . There is an
19 annual lighting of the Christmas in late
20 November . And there is the ice cream
21 sundae event in August . We residents
22 have been supported the need by the
23 Society over the years , even though
24 again, our street is designated as a
• 25 private road . In fact, our street
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 97
• 1 becomes a parking area for the general
2 public during these times . It becomes
3 difficult for us residence to navigate in
4 and out of our old property . Either by
5 foot or traffic . The director just
6 mentioned that these Sunday ' s are
7 actually Lazy Sunday ' s . Anyone who has
8 lived in the Village, on the weekends ,
9 the traffic has greatly increased .
10 However, these events have been occasions
11 for us to cooperate with the Historical
12 Society in their need to fundraise . Just
13 to review the implications of living on a
14 private road are for residence in this
15 hamlet . We ' re responsible for picking up
16 our mail at the post office, and when
17 snow storms occur, we have to pay for the
18 removal of the snow from the street . So
19 we have to pay for our own expenses . The
20 Historical Society is deliberating here
21 today, as the Director has mentioned,
22 envisioned a parking space for vendors
23 and vehicles . But as some of you ( In
24 Audible) . The traffic, it ' s not a
25 sleeping hamlet on the weekends . Where
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 98
• 1 are the consumers going to park? As the
2 Director has indicated, on the main road .
3 There is a public restaurant next to the
4 society. It ' s a very popular restaurant ,
5 already with a lot of cars . Certainly
6 consumers at the flea market park across
7 the street at the fire house . I am sure
8 that the town and the fire department
9 will have some concerns about that . It
10 will be a disaster . The most logical
11 alternative for the society is to have
12 consumers park on our street, a private
13 road. And speaking for myself as a
14 resident of 315 , I am very much opposed
15 to this possibility. There would be no
16 way for us to enforce our right to use
17 our street for our own purposes . Now,
18 the street has a lot of young kids , whose
19 safety is now compromised with the
20 presence on this street is alarming to
21 us . I hope that the Town will have a
22 great deliberations on this . To have a
23 traffic officer for six months on
24 Sunday ' s -- doing that for the lighting
• 25 of the tree or for the ice cream social
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 99
• 1 makes sense , but to do it for six months
2 every Sunday . Another concern is the
3 possibility that is always present is a
4 motor vehicle accident or personal injury
5 on our street, followed by litigation .
6 Possibly a giant one for us residents .
7 We welcome our guests on our street and
8 are prepared to deal with potential
9 difficulties that God forbid, involving
10 them. But we would not be pleased having
11 to become involved with such problems for
12 the general public . Our street is a
• 13 private road because it ' s much narrower
14 than the Town requires a Town road. That
15 is what the idea of this type of freedom
16 for us and the beauty that -- and the
17 ambience that it provides for us on the
18 street . These are some of the reasons
19 that , I , as a resident of 315 Maple Lane
20 come here today along with others , in
21 opposition to this proposal and in the
22 hope that your Board will defeat it .
23 Thank you.
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
• 25 MR. ROWEN : I am the partner of the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 100
• 1 gentleman that just spoke . My name is
2 John Rowen, R-O-W-E-N .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have also
4 received your letter .
5 MR. ROWEN : I have a letter on the
6 file . The first question that I have is
7 the adequate notice of this hearing .
8 Maple Lane is a private road for 15
9 residential properties , including the
10 Historical Society and a law office on
11 Main Road. Each of the properties owns an
12 easement with the right-of-way for the
• 13 road. Because each property ' s
14 right-of-way abuts the property to the
15 Historical Society, it could be argued
16 that all 15 properties abut the
17 Historical Society property and thus all
18 would be eligible to receive the notice
19 of the hearing . Only three properties on
20 Maple did receive such notice . The role
21 on hearing notices are intended to inform
22 persons effected by the action of the
23 Zoning Board, and should be interpreted
24 broadly. I raise this issue only to
• 25 reserve my right to visit later, if
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 101
• 1 necessary. The next heading I have, this
2 is a ( In Audible ) inconsistent with the
3 new CO . The Historical Society wishes to
4 respond to a flea market for 18 vendors ,
5 for 26 Sunday ' s from May through October,
6 from 10 : 00 A. M. to 3 : 00 P . M . I submit
7 that this is not an event like a fair . It
8 is inconsistent with the zoning . This
9 puts the Historical Society in
10 competition with other shops in the same
11 or related businesses , and it ' s for that
12 reason, unfair . My second point is that
• 13 the planned use of the grass lawn for
14 vendor parking is an ecological and
15 aesthetic disaster . So I have a letter
16 on file for that effect . My final is , 18
17 vendors, 18 trucks , materials , for hours
18 upon a day, times set-up, times two, from
19 May through October . One quart of motor
20 oil is ( In Audible ) to pollute 250 , 000
21 gallons of well water on our property,
22 315 Maple Lane called the ( In Audible) on
23 your tax map . Our well is used for
24 irrigation and not consumption . I don ' t
• 25 have records for others in the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 102
. 1 neighborhood, nor do I have info to the
2 nearby wetlands . We are well aware of the
3 issues to the problems of the Sandy
4 damaged cars . Everyone can probably
5 imagine the outcry if the outcome was to
6 park on the grass . This is an issue even
7 if the grass lawn were dry and firm, but
8 add a weather and rain to the mixture on
9 any Friday or Saturday before the flea
10 market is open on each of the Sunday ' s
11 the market is open, the contours would be
12 forever changed. The southeast corner of
• 13 the south field, there is still ruts from
14 one entrance of a utility truck 15 years
15 ago . When wet , the ground is stalk and
16 vulnerable . The next point I make is
17 that a Sunday flea market will degrade
18 Maple Lane to the Southold community .
19 Maple Lane is a private road. There is a
20 modest sign a few feet in from Main Road .
21 People on bikes and in strollers wind up
22 in staging for the parade . Cars park
23 there for the Historical Society events ,
24 such as the lighting of the Christmas
• 25 tree . These community events , while I am
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 103
• 1 not authorized to speak for all the
2 residents, everyone is welcomed . Everyone
3 is welcomed, but we could never surrender
4 to half the Sundays in a year to parking
5 for flea market . And if we were to
6 enforce our right to keep the public off
7 our road, we would change our policy of
8 hospitality . Why should we be faced with
9 such a dilemma? The next part of my
10 presentation -- I didn ' t realize it was
11 unfinished . The Historical Society has
12 done a good job with acquainting us and
. 13 with the successes of generation in
14 understanding who we are today . So I
15 would like to draw a lesson from the
16 founders . They did not shop on Sundays .
17 They have strict rules and enforced by
18 the State . Never argued to restore new
19 laws . I would say a word ( In Audible )
20 religious term, but a cultural concept .
21 And that every seven days it ' s a good
22 measure for you to enjoy and take a rest
23 and go to the beach or have a
24 conversation with your grandmother
. 25 without texting your friend in Garden
I
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 104
• 1 City, and in general pertaining to your
2 soul . This is not the Hampton ' s . This is
3 not even Greenport . I have no desire to
4 limit the rights of anyone or shopping .
5 Nor would I want to limit the rights of a
6 summer Sunday. The idea of a market on
7 half the Sunday ' s in a year, is a
8 cultural disaster to the hamlet of
9 Southold. The proposed action on the
10 application asks if it would impair the
11 quality of the existing community, the
12 Society answered, no . I would say, yes .
• 13 To prove my right , I would install the
14 rights of the previous founders and thank
15 the Historical Society ' s and in keeping
16 some of their values alive in some of us .
17 MEMBER DANTES : You sure you don ' t
18 want to submit this in writing? Is that
19 blood?
20 MR. ROWEN : It ' s okay.
21 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: If you have this
22 all in writing, why don ' t you submit this
23 and we get you some medical attention?
24 MR. ROWEN : Because I don ' t need
• 25 medical attention .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 105
• 1 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: You ' re bleeding
2 pretty bad .
3 MR. ROWEN : I am familiar with the
4 wound. It ' s just a fresh biopsy . That ' s
5 all .
6 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Are you reading --
7 MR. ROWEN : This is the main access .
8 I only have a short way to go .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : In the interest
10 that we do have other hearings to follow,
11 I know there are other people that would
12 like to make some comments .
• 13 MR . ROWEN : Sure .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Just try and
15 make sure you that your comments are not
16 repeated . If you have something
17 additional that you need to add, that ' s
18 fine . We try and not to repeat the same
19 points .
20 MR. ROWEN : Okay. Ronald Richardson
21 and I have owned the house on 315 Maple
22 Lane for 23 years . For the past year, the
23 house has been listed for sale . We have
24 had many admirers but nothing for sale,
• 25 despite a few reductions . As we go
I
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 106
• 1 forward, we ( In Audible ) land use . You
2 can expect that if this plan is approved
3 that there would be a serious tax
4 property grievance to the new owners of
5 315 Maple Lane , as well as property
6 owners on Maple Lane and Hobart Street . I
7 never thought that I would be at odds
8 with the Historical Society. I admire the
9 campus, the neighbors , the research, the
10 publications , all showing the memories
11 and artifacts of the past . All helping us
12 to have great values and live wisely . I
• 13 hope that the Board will deny the
14 application and help us go on living in
15 this historic place .
16 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you . Sir,
17 there is some blood on this copy . I would
18 ask that you submit another one to our
19 office . Thank you .
20 MS . KESSLER: My name is Linda
21 Kessler, L-I-N-D-A K-E-S-S-L-E-R. Thank
22 you Father Ronald and Father John for
23 what you had to say about our block . My
24 name is Linda Kessler and I reside on
• 25 Maple Lane . Adjacent to the Historical
I
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 107
• 1 Society, both on the north side and the
2 western portion where the parking lot is
3 proposed . I have lived happily on Maple
4 Lane since 1984 . My husband and my now
5 grown daughters . ( In Audible ) had
6 befriended my daughter . They have shared
7 many stories together . They have become
8 great friends . Two very different
9 generations . This is how I would like to
10 remember the Historical Society and it ' s
11 open space . It saddens me that the
12 Historical Society is looking to use
• 13 their gem for a flea market on Sunday ' s
14 from May through October . For many of
15 us , Maple Lane was chosen as a place for
16 us to live because of the peace ,
17 tranquility and community . Most of us
18 that live in a residential area, a
19 Sunday, a day of rest could be tragic .
20 Fortunately, the Historical Society has
21 two properties in the Historic District
22 that can well serve their needs for a
23 flea market . Behind their space, there
24 is large grassy land that they can have
. 25 their flea market . As a business owner,
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 108
1 I would think having this venue would be
is 2 a great thing to the business owners ,
3 shops and restaurants . I assure they
4 would embrace the additional foot traffic
5 to shop in their stores and eat in their
6 restaurants . Sunday is a day of workshop
7 for some, rest and relaxation, sleeping
8 in and family gatherings . Being in the
9 antique business for 40 years , I know
10 what ' s involved with outdoor selling . It
11 would be early morning arrivals , and I
12 mean, early, loud talking. People
• 13 setting up their tables . There will be
14 the early birds that are there first
15 wanting to see what is displayed . That
16 would lead to more noise . This would
17 create restrictions for the children that
18 ride bikes . It would change the quality
19 of life that we have grown accustomed to
20 and thoroughly enjoy . I hope that the
21 Board will not vote in favor of this
22 variance and abide by these town rules
23 for flea markets . And that ' s it .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you . Let
• 25 me ask a question, is there anyone here
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 109
• 1 that wants to speak in favor of this
2 application? Okay .
3 MR. ROONEY : My name is John Rooney .
4 A lot of what I had here has already been
5 said. So everything that has been said,
6 I will second it . I just want to quickly
7 say that my wife and I have been members
8 of the Historical Society for 15 years .
9 We both volunteer at the candlelight and
10 the ice cream social . We see the
11 situation . We can deal with it , but this
12 is way over the top . So it' s with no
• 13 disrespect to the society. But one thing
14 that was pointed out by the society is
15 that most businesses are closed. To point
16 out , we have IGA, Ace Hardware . You have
17 the pharmacy . You have several small
18 antique stores on the north side of the
19 road . You have the deli on the corner and
20 you have the beverage business right next
21 store . So it' s totally fallacious to say
22 the other businesses are closed on
23 Sunday' s . Each of them generate lots of
24 traffic on Sunday' s . That part of the
• 25 argument is totally wrong and false . I
i
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 110
• 1 just wanted to demonstrate that there are
2 safety issues . I will stop at that so
3 that others can have a chance to speak .
4 Thank you.
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
6 MR. DOMINO : I was president of the
7 North Fork Environmental Counsel for
8 years . I worked with Mr . ( In Audible ) on
9 the Board for many years . I would like to
10 support the statement of Linda Kessler
11 and John in every way . I understand the
12 difficulties , especially after 9/11 .
• 13 However, this operation that you are
14 asking for, six months out of the year,
15 it' s really big . Seems to me, it' s out
16 of the realm of fundraising and into a
17 quasi business . Many of you knew me
18 first as an antique dealer for 27 years .
19 I ran flea markets . I know the early
20 setups and how the early birds arrive and
21 how hazard the parking comes . As an
22 owner of commercial property, we tend to
23 follow strict codes, health and safety
24 codes . I am not complaining about that .
• 25 I always found it difficult for the Town
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 111
is 1 to balance that . We have restaurants .
2 They have handicapped parking ' s . They
3 have sprinkler systems . This is not a
4 level playing field. What I am trying to
5 say, as an antique dealer in Greenport ,
6 before people get to me, what ' s supposed
7 to be a non-for-profit Historical
8 Society, operating through the busy
9 season, draining away from me . And not
10 many follow the same rules . Thank you .
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
12 MR. HOYTE : My name is Paul Hoyte,
• 13 H-O-Y-T-E . I have lived on Maple Lane
14 for 15 years . I am a full-time resident .
15 I have two young children, and note that
16 there are other young children on the
17 block . I have been to the tree lighting .
18 I have been to the ice cream social . My
19 children have been there . It' s been so
20 good, that I have contributed to the
21 Historical Society . But, and however, my
22 children are young, they use the street .
23 The ride their bicycle . There is no
24 better thing that coming down Maple Lane
• 25 on your bicycle . Sense of freedom. It' s a
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 112
• 1 wonderful feeling . At this time, the
2 street is not congested . It ' s a beautiful
3 thing . However, there is a lot of
4 interesting things that happen on Maple
5 Lane traffic wise . And I see it every
6 day. People love to make u-turns on our
7 block and they also like to make u-turns
8 in the parking lot . The other thing, we
9 have lots of people come up and down our
10 block to walk. When there is the tree
11 lighting, people think nothing and almost
12 park half way into my front lawn . All
. 13 the parking that would be parking there ,
14 would eventually damage the sides , and
15 put ruts and grooves into them. Another
16 thing, we have a celebrity that lives
17 down the block, and I know people have
18 come down looking for that celebrity .
19 Also people in the summer time because
20 the water ends behind our block, they
21 come down looking for outlets , a way to
22 the water. These people are very curious
23 to see what is down the block . Thank
24 you .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 113
• 1 MR . QUIST : How do you do . My name
2 is Gary Quist, and I am adjacent to the
3 back lot of the Historical Society, where
4 the application is for the vendor permit .
5 I speak in support of the Historical
6 Society as everyone here has done, and
7 for the director in speaking out of the
8 box to generate revenue to keep it what
9 it has been . I feel the concept could
10 help the Historical Society financially,
11 it could be a crap shoot and a gamble but
12 they are willing to give it a shot to see
• 13 if it will work . But I am not concerned
14 for striking off revenue for the vendors
15 or the stores in town . I think it will
16 have an adverse effect to the business
17 that they already get . I am not
18 concerned either with where the vendors
19 come from, whether it be Eastern Long
20 Island or the dark side of the moon .
21 Money is money and more the merrier . The
22 plan as presented, has some questions
23 that I would like to see addressed before
24 I could give it some support . The
• 25 parking being intended for vendors only
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 114
• 1 must be without exception . Shows 8
2 possibly vendors . I am not sure where
3 that number comes from. I am not sure if
4 that is the maximum number it could
5 permit . I think there are some questions
6 that the Board should put to the
7 director . I think a lot of the concerns
8 that are being addressed by myself as
9 well as the audience , is the scope, and
10 the size . Those are some issues that
11 should be addressed before reeling out
12 the final outcome of this application .
• 13 The Maple Lane residents have some
14 concerns . The experience of neighbors
15 have shown that not all our visitors are
16 not all well behaved . I do not need to
17 have myself, my family or visitors
18 exposed to the rudeness that we have seen
19 from our guests out here . The plan shows
20 no provision of toileting . That has not
21 been brought . Let' s say you get 200
22 people passing through there . I see no
23 provision for toileting facilities .
24 Along those lines , I would not support
• 25 the application if the site included ( In
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 115
• 1 Audible) port-a-potties . That is just
2 not the way it goes . And I would
3 recommend that some sort of industrial
4 strength, trailer facilities , as we have
5 seen at large events , be used .
6 MEMBER HORNING : Could I interrupt
7 you for a moment because I have to
8 leave? I will be home at 7 : 00 P . M . I
9 have to take two ferry trips to get back
10 home . I stood as long as I could . I
11 hope everyone submits something in
12 writing . We will all look at the
• 13 transcript and we will come up with a
14 decision.
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Thank you .
16 MR . QUIST : To wrap this up, the
17 concerns that have been brought up are
18 ones that I agree with . I do support
19 that the application be approved on a
20 trial basis . I think I have expressed
21 modifications -- concerns about traffic,
22 the toileting and just the scope of the
23 endeavor . I would like to see it tried
24 and then be reevaluated . For all the
• 25 work that has been done here and whatever
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 116
• 1 gets done here , it ' s not something that
2 we lose control over in 5-7 years down
3 the road.
4 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Just to let you
5 all know, the Board has granted Special
6 Exception permits on a limited basis for
7 a year or subject to renewal or voided,
8 dependent upon the outcome . There are
9 clearly a number of issues that I want
10 to address .
11 Is there some comments that you
12 would like to make?
• 13 MR. MOSQUERO : Hi . My name is Robert
14 Mosquero . My wife and live at --
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Please spell
16 your last name, please?
17 MR . MOSQUERO : M-O-S-Q-U-E-R-O . I am
18 125 feet on one side of the property and
19 75 on the other . I generally clean both
20 properties , because generally where I
21 live I get a lot of debris . I have no
22 problem with that . I enjoy the Historical
23 Society. My concern is that the Town had
24 signed a contract with the Historical
• 25 Society for the right-of-way for the road
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 117
• 1 or entrance to the property right on top
2 of the hill , as I call it from my point
3 of view. And that contract has expired .
4 Under no circumstances should they be
5 denied access to that parcels of land. I
6 will just cut it short and say, if there
7 is any building of a road or something
8 should be of concern . Unfortunately I was
9 not allowed to build my garage to the
10 standard size that I deemed . So we
11 wouldn ' t like to see the road . The ( In
12 Audible) all these vehicles go down, it' s
• 13 not wide enough to support the traffic .
14 What happens when one truck is coming one
15 way and the vendor is going another?
16 It' s not feasible . So my concern is the
17 right-of-way .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Are you
19 referring to this road here?
20 MR. MOSQUERO : Well , the only way
21 they can get in is next to the barn, the
22 alley way. That road is not big enough
23 for vehicles going in both direction .
24 The next would be for a road going down
• 25 the side of the house . That has always
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 118
• 1 been my question . Just with that , if
2 there is any talk about that , please
3 consider me and my request not to have
4 that road put in . Thank you .
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay . Let ' s
6 look at some things here and perhaps
7 Mr . Fleming would like to make some
8 comments . We need to get some
9 information from the Building Department
10 about the site plan . No . 2 , we need
11 some information from the Town Engineer
12 regarding environmental impact to
• 13 parking vehicles in the proposed south
14 field. No . 3 , we need some information
15 from Chief Flatley regarding traffic and
16 traffic control . In addition, we need
17 to look at the duration of the event .
18 It has been suggested to change the
19 hours open to the public . There has
20 been ample testimony that vendors arrive
21 much early then they ' re supposed to and
22 the public arrives much earlier than
23 they ' re supposed to . Does it need to be
24 every Sunday? Could it be one Sunday a
• 25 month? Would that make a difference?
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 119
• 1 Would that work as an experiment . These
2 are just questions . Also, the size .
3 The number 18 should be addressed, I
4 think you can do that right now? Is
5 that fair to say? Where that number
6 came from?
7 MR. FLEMING : That number came from
8 -- seems that would fit comfortably in
9 the Historical Society without using the
10 bulk of the property and would seem to
11 fit in the area and having paring in the
12 rear lot . I could tell you that for at
13 least 15 years , we have parked cars in
14 that field, with or without permission .
15 That is what it has been used for .
16 First , in considering the purchase of
17 that before in 1985 and before it was
18 subdivided, there was a plan for a paved
19 parking lot for the Historical Society.
20 For visitor parking, but just never went
21 ahead with . The road that the last
22 speaker was talking about , that rear lot
23 has a driveway access . All those lots
24 there on Hobart that were divided . We
25 just have not put in that driveway . We
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 120
• 1 have always intended to . It exist there .
2 We have just never gone through the
3 process . So we just have not gotten
4 through that yet .
5 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Have you
6 considered any alternative location in
7 which to hold this?
8 MR. FLEMING : We haven ' t because we
9 don' t really own a location where we
10 could do it . That it ' s ours . Certainly
11 a Town property could be used for this ,
12 if the Town were willing to have it .
• 13 Traditionally, what happens is that
14 large town parking lots could be used
15 for this use, if they exist . One that
16 comes to mind is the one in Bellmore .
17 The Town parking lot at the railroad
18 station . That is like 300 vendors .
19 Nothing to what we are proposing . We
20 are certainly open to that . We just
21 want to see more use out of the complex .
22 We can ' t afford to have a park anymore .
23 It' s become literally impossible for us .
24 Many years ago, when most of work was
• 25 done by volunteers , which is no longer
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 121
• 1 the case . The costs for maintenance
2 climbed dramatically over the past 10 to
3 15 years . And then this included with
4 the decline of one of the trusts . It
5 costs so much money to do the basics . We
6 have another neighbor on Hobart , which
7 her backyard is half her backyard and
8 half our backyard . Based on the lot
9 line . There is a retaining wall that has
10 to be repaired and I have been promising
11 for two years already, but I don' t have
12 the money for it and I feel very bad .
• 13 Right now, our back-up list for capital
14 projects is $250 , 000 . 00 that we cannot
15 fund. That we do not have a way to
16 fund. We feel it very difficult to rely
17 on our members for that, even local
18 businesses . It ' s been a Catch 22 for
19 us . The Board has even set-up a
20 committee for this . As I said, we are
21 open to any discussion upon other ways
22 so that we could make sure we could
23 continue to pay our employees and pay
24 all the vendors in Town . We spend about
• 25 $400 , 000 . 00 a year in Town on local
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 122
• 1 businesses . We want to continue to do
2 that .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay . Why don' t
4 we just take a few other questions here .
5 With regards to other issues of sanitary
6 on site .
7 MR . FLEMING: There is a fully hooked
8 up bathroom on the east side of the
9 property, it has running water and
10 hooked up the septic system, which is
11 available for anyone on the property .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: And you think
• 13 it would be capable --
14 MR. FLEMING : We talked about putting
15 another one in . It was an outhouse that
16 was converted into a bathroom. So that
17 it has all the facilities that a normal
18 bathroom would have . Kids get a kick out
19 of saying they are going to the bathroom
20 in the outhouse .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Have you
22 projected any potential revenue, for
23 lets say 18 vendors for every Sunday and
24 what it would mean?
• 25 MR. FLEMING : Yes . It would definitely
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 123
• 1 not be every Sunday because it would be
2 a fair weather event . So if it rains , it
3 isn ' t going to happen . It certainly
4 isn ' t gong to happen the day after the
5 ice cream social . The max would be 26 .
6 It would be below that number based upon
7 weather and other programs going on .
8 What was your other question? Oh, money
9 raise . We would expect to gross about
10 $20 , 000 . 00 a year, which would go a long
11 way in helping to plug the large hole
12 that we find ourselves in .
13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : How does that
14 income get generated?
15 MR. FLEMING : That is from the fee
16 per vendor, which would roughly be
17 $35 . 00 to set up a table on the
18 property.
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Strictly from
20 vendor fees?
21 MR. FLEMING : Yes .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All sales --
23 MR. FLEMING : All sales are theirs .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , let' s
• 25 look at something as a lessable impact
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 124
• 1 as a trial . Would you be open to
2 possibly reducing the number of Sunday' s
3 in the season?
4 MR . FLEMING : We are open to looking
5 at anything right now and to see if it
6 would be a viable opportunity.
7 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay . Because
8 it seems like it ' s an unfortunate
9 situation, for some of the neighbors who
10 have supported the Historical Society
11 for so long are so uncomfortable with
12 the idea of this frequency and the
• 13 quality of their lives and their
14 neighborhood . So if we could find a way
15 to possibly reduce the impact, reduce
16 the frequency . Try it out and see how
17 it works and subject to further review
18 to either renew it or abolish it . That
19 may be one way to proceed . I would
20 encourage you to look, if you have space
21 behind the Prince building --
22 MR. FLEMING : The lot behind the
23 bank?
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Not the bank .
• 25 There is a municipal lot --
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 125
• 1 MR . FLEMING : You mean, the little
2 one -- I know what you mean .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That is public
4 parking . You can get quite a lot of cars
5 in there . So I think another way to
6 think about this is where another
7 feasible location might be . You might
8 think about approaching the Town and
9 using municipal property . I have no idea
10 whether this is viable or not . There is
11 the bank lot and --
12 MR . FLEMING : Yes . The rear lot .
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : So I think we
14 need to get some more information . One
15 thing that I would like to do is keep
16 this open for more public comments .
17 Make sure everyone is heard . There is a
18 lot of information . I think maybe --
19 and I am going to poll the Board, but I
20 think we should adjourn to next month .
21 We do have some things that we still
22 have to collect from other entities .
23 Perhaps you can start thinking of the
24 other issues that were raised. If the
• 25 public wants to provide more commentary
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 126
• 1 or something in writing, or come up with
2 some other thoughts . That means , you
3 will have time to do all of that , and if
4 you want to submit anything in writing,
5 of things that occur to you that you
6 didn ' t raise here or if some of your
7 neighbors , if they were not able to be
8 here . May lst is the next meeting . Do
9 you agree with that?
10 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Sure , that ' s fine .
11 MR. ROONEY : If I had additional
12 comments, can I submit then via e-mail
• 13 and if so, what would the e-mail address
14 be .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You can submit
16 then e-mail . You can submit them to our
17 office . The Board' s secretary will
18 forward them to our Board and print them
19 and put them into the file . It' s public
20 records .
21 MR. ROONEY : Do you have the e-mail?
22 MS . TOTH : It' s on the website .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there any
24 other question or comment that anyone
• 25 has in the audience at this time? Come
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 127
• 1 to the mic --
2 MR. MOSQUERO : I just wanted to say
3 that while I was in the process of
4 building ( In Audible ) raising it out of
5 the ground, 6 feet , I was not allowed to
6 build my garage of what I needed it to
7 me . And every day it bothers me that I
8 have a little garage . I can ' t get my car
9 in it . I am a hands on type of guy. You
10 are not allowed to go across and build a
11 road across wetlands , and I have a
12 feeling now, this is gonna happen .
• 13 Another road is going to be put across
14 wetlands and meanwhile, why was I denied
15 to utilize the 25 feet of my property of
16 which I had and I couldn ' t use it . I
17 still can ' t use .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I am sorry --
19 MR. MOSQUERO : Tomorrow there will be
20 a road there .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : It is certainly
22 not an issue before the Zoning Board at
23 this time . We have to really address
24 the application --
• 25 MR. MOSQUERO : -- that is at hand
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 128
• 1 today. Okay . Thank you .
2 MS . KESSLER: Listening to a number
3 of things , $35 . 00 a space over the 20
4 weeks is not $40 , 000 . 00 . It' s about
5 $16, 000 . 00 .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think he said
7 about $20 , 000 . 00 .
8 MS . KESSLER: Okay . And my only
9 other question, when they talk about
10 cars , again being in the business nobody
11 has cars . It' s vans and trucks that we
12 are talking about which would be a huge
• 13 impact on the grassy grade of land.
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This is why we
15 want to get some comments from the town
16 engineer, and you cannot park commercial
17 vehicles back there as of right . The
18 Historical Society is proposing to use
19 that field for vendor parking but that
20 is going to have to be a whole other
21 application . I will have to look at the
22 section of the code and read it . I will
23 have to go look it up . Section 280-078
24 H and I , and that is what would permit
25 an applicant to create commercial
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 129
1 parking in an R-40 Zone . So we are not
2 even there yet . When something seems
3 like a feasible idea that would be
4 beneficial , then what happens is all
5 kinds of things happen that were not
6 even in consideration before . And so,
7 that is why we have public hearing ' s
8 and that everyone is represented and all
9 comments are heard and taken into
10 consideration . That' s why we record it .
11 So that everything that was said here is
12 part of our public record and available
13 to the public because this is a public
14 forum. So to be continued. We have some
15 homework to do . Unless there is
16 something else --
17 MR. QUIST : One question for
18 clarification for Madam Chairperson, the
19 director has referred to multiple parcels
20 owned by the Historical Society. Is it
21 one continuous --
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Well , on the
23 survey it' s shown as ( In Audible ) it' s
24 shown as one parcel . It may be more
• 25 than one lot , I don' t know .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 130
1 MR. QUIST : Okay .
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We go by the
3 survey . It' s a legal document . It' s
4 not uncommon, particularly in Greenport .
5 Where the backyard is Southold . It
6 happens . It does appear that the south
7 is zoned R-40 , residents . And that the
8 parcel is HB, Hamlet Business we want to
9 make sure that if these uses are
10 granted, that they will not have an
11 adverse impact that cannot be litigated
12 in some way or another .
• 13 Anything else from anybody?
14 (No Response . )
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I am going to
16 make a motion to adjourn this hearing to
17 May lst at 1 : 30 .
18 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
20 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
21 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Aye .
22 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
24 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
• 25 *** * * ************ ************** ** **
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 131
is 1 HEARING #6726- ROBERT AND MARYANN
2 AMABILE
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All right . This
4 is the last hearing of the day, Robert
5 and Maryann Amabile . This is reopened
6 from March 6th because the variances did
7 not address lot coverage . So we had to
8 redo this as an additional variance . It
9 was more sensible to do it as a re-open
10 the hearing and address them all . So I
11 guess I need to read the legal notice .
12 Request for variances from Article IV
• 13 Code Section 280-18 and Article XXII
14 Code Section 280-116 and the Building
15 Inspector ' s October 24 , 2013 , amended
16 November 8 , 2013 , amended
17 January 6, 2014 , amended March 14 , 2014
18 Notice of Disapproval based on an
19 application for building permit for
20 addition to existing single family
21 dwelling, raised patio with in-ground
22 swimming pool, at ; 1 ) less than the code
23 required minimum side yard setback of
24 15 feet , 2 ) lot coverage at more than
25 the code permitted 200 , 3 ) less than the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 132
• 1 code required 100 foot setback from top
2 of the bluff, located at 1365 Aquaview
3 Avenue, adjacent to Long Island Sound in
4 East Marion .
5 So if you would like to come to the
6 podium of lot coverage of 31 . 20 of the
7 buildable area . Not the entire
8 property . We are still looking at a 10
9 foot side yard setback . And a bluff
10 setback at 67 feet, where the code says
11 100 feet .
12 MS . DELVAGLIO : I am Jennifer
13 Delvaglio, and this is Bob Amabile .
14 MR. AMABILE : I am the owner .
15 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Would you spell
16 your last name, please?
17 MS . DELVAGLIO : Sure .
18 D-E-L-V-A-G-L-I-O . Last time we were
19 here, we were asked to do a little
20 research and bring some things back to
21 you . I would like to do this at this
22 time . It was asked that the we locate
23 the cesspools of the property, which we
24 did . They are to the left side of the
• 25 property, if you are looking at the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 133
• 1 house . We were also asked to find where
2 the water connection and pool electric
3 connections are , and they are in the
4 front yard . They are in between the
5 garage and the lines go back towards the
6 house . The third question that was told
7 to us , is to mention the house and the
8 garage ( In Audible ) and the existing is
9 24 feet , which is not allowed in that
10 space . And then to make it smaller by 5
11 feet .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : We have your
• 13 letter of March 13th . The survey is
14 revised 3/13 and we are now showing a 10
15 foot side yard .
16 MS . DELVAGLIO : Correct . Initially
17 we were asking for 5 .
18 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Is there
19 anything that the Board wants to ask
20 about this ?
21 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: The lot coverage
22 is still to high .
23 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes , this lot
24 coverage 31 . 2 with the pool?
• 25 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yes .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 134
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Here it is .
2 It' s broken down . So the existing total
3 is 22 . 20 . The pool and patio is another
4 9% . Okay . So without the pool or the
5 patio, it' s 22 . 2% , and you are proposing
6 to bring it up t another 9% , 31 . 2% , is
7 that correct?
8 MS . DELVAGLIO : Yes .
9 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Pavered patio
10 on 4 inches on concrete . I think that
11 is considered on grade . It has a
12 substantial slope . It has to be
• 13 regraded to level that grading anyway .
14 You are just proposing pavered on
15 concrete . Is this just because the
16 pavered patio is raised? That is
17 considered lot coverage? I certainly
18 know there is a retaining wall on the
19 side yard. It has to be . Do you know
20 what the height of that retaining wall
21 is?
22 MS . DELVAGLIO : It ' s only 2 feet . In
23 order to make everything stay level , we
24 would like to grade it out and bring it
• 25 up 2 feet .
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 135
• 1 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I think that is
2 why it' s considered a raised deck, which
3 is why it' s considered lot coverage .
4 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : When you say the
5 left side, are you talking about looking
6 at the survey from the west side of the
7 road?
8 MS . DELVAGLIO : I ' m sorry, I am
9 looking at the property from the road,
10 the left side of the pool would be at
11 grade .
12 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Okay . Yes . It
• 13 would be this side .
14 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Wait a minute
15 MR. AMABILE : I am confused on how
16 those numbers --
17 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Come to the
18 Board . Does the survey show a seaward
19 deck?
20 MS . DELVAGLIO : Yes .
21 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That has to be
22 part of the percentage .
23 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : It has to be ,
24 it' s a raised deck .
• 25 MR . AMABILE : If I eliminated the
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 136
• 1 concrete --
2 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: If it ' s above the
3 grade --
4 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : No matter how you
5 slice it .
6 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All of this is
7 at grade, this stuff is probably, you
8 know, pavers . It' s all at grade . It ' s
9 just really creating a lower side yard .
10 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: The whole thing
11 could be cut off .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : This whole
13 section is not raised. They have a 2
14 foot retaining wall to level it .
15 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: I can see they
16 need a place to sit . This I can ' t see
17 why they have it . Whatever the
18 difference is in elevation, they build a
19 retaining wall and they put in steps .
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The property is
21 actually flat around here .
22 MR . AMABILE : If you go to the pool
23 and go to the property line , it goes
24 down .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : If you were to
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 137
• 1 look at your lot , you would see that
2 it' s not cluttered up . They are
3 knocking off all of this stuff, because
4 it' s not buildable . Would you do that
5 at the mic, so we can make sure we get
6 that into the hearing transcript? .
7 MS . DELVAGLIO : So if I might be able
8 to offer a suggestion that would appease
9 the Board, currently if you have been to
10 the property, you can see that there is
11 definitely erosion on the side yard.
12 Almost if there are water channels going
• 13 down towards the sound, in the event
14 that we are allowed to build up this
15 section of the property, we would then
16 be allowed to put in channel drains
17 along the patio, which would redirect
18 all of that rain water that comes onto
19 that property, and we could direct it
20 into the drywell . That we would
21 actually be preserving that entire area
22 that slopes down towards the bluff . So
23 maybe that would be a way we could help
24 preserve the property.
• 25 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : That ' s fine . We
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 138
1 are just trying to eliminate some lot
2 coverage .
3 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That ' s all that
4 we ' re trying to do .
5 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : Between this here ,
6 we see absolutely no purpose for that
7 raised patio there . The patio and the
8 garage . The back of the pool , closest
9 to the road, and the garage . Just
10 pavers on concrete .
11 MR . AMABILE : Does that eliminate the
12 coverage issue?
13 MEMBER GOEHRINGER : It does , as long
14 as they are level to the ground, and the
15 advantage is , so you could run a
16 lawnmower at it ' s lowest point right
17 over to the top of it . That is what we
18 mean, at grade .
19 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : They are at
20 grade .
21 MS . DELVAGLIO : Could we do RCA,
22 because if we use sand --
23 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: No, use brick .
24 MS . DELVAGLIO : Okay .
25 MR . AMABILE : If we brought the grade
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 139
• 1 of the property to it' s lowest point ( In
2 Audible ) .
3 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I think the
4 difficulty here is that it requires a
5 retaining wall on the easterly side to
6 hold up your patio, where on the other
7 side it does not require a retaining
8 wall . And it' s post at grade on the
9 east side, where it meets grade . Closer
10 to your house . As it extends to your
11 neighbor, that is where it slopes . That
12 is where you need to the retaining . The
• 13 pool is going to have a lot coverage
14 issue regardless . It' s okay . We don' t
15 include the patio in lot coverage as
16 long as it' s on grade , okay? You don' t
17 have the benefit of that because your
18 property falls away . So the difficulty
19 is the retaining wall . If you just cut
20 it out, but for what purpose, just to
21 meet the required lot coverage .
22 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: This is a liner
23 pool?
24 MS . DELVAGLIO : Yes .
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You know what
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 140
• 1 this will require a little bit of
2 revising . We can just grant alternative
3 relief for "x" amount and then give you
4 the time to design it for that amount
5 and that is what you send to the
6 Building Department . You would have to
7 submit it to us , so we could stamp it .
8 MR . AMABILE : Now, that area by the
9 garage, could I just put pavers on the
10 ground?
11 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Sure you can .
12 MR. AMABILE : Good.
• 13 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : You know, why
14 don' t we just round this up .
15 The surveyor is the one who
16 determined that it was raised. Not the
17 Building Department . Let' s say if it ' s
18 on a cement slab like that, it' s like a
19 curb . We could make an interpretation .
20 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Maybe we just need
21 a site inspection of the pool .
22 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : That would
23 help . Just show the piece that would be
24 carved out .
• 25 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: So should we do
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 141
• 1 something like that?
2 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Yes . If we say
3 that it ' s at grade .
4 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: If this is your
5 pool here, you did a cross section
6 there --
7 MS . DELVAGLIO : Okay .
8 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: You would have to
9 know what the elevation is here . So
10 hopefully a majority of that patio would
11 be at grade, if not, then we would see
12 where it parts away .
• 13 MS . DELVAGLIO : Okay.
14 MR. AMABILE : So just a cut from the
15 corner --
16 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yes , that would be
17 fine . Right to the property . Show us a
18 cross section of the existing grade,
19 where the pool is going to be, the
20 grade . That way we can see where the
21 grade is and where it slopes away and
22 then where you have to put a retaining
23 wall .
24 MR. AMABILE : Okay.
• 25 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : The Board wants
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 142
• 1 to know what percentage will be at
2 grade . We don' t want to go beyond 270 .
3 We want to stick around the 270 lot
4 coverage .
5 MS . DELVAGLIO : Okay . We are going
6 to do this and get it right back to
7 you .
8 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Okay . We
9 will deliberate in two weeks from
10 today.
11 MS . DELVAGLIO : Okay .
12 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : I would like to
. 13 make a motion and close this hearing
14 subject to receipt of an updated survey
15 showing what percentage of the patio is
16 raised, what percentage is not and to
17 come out with approximately 270 lot
18 coverage .
19 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Second
20 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : All in favor?
21 MEMBER DANTES : Aye .
22 MEMBER GOEHRINGER: Aye .
23 MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye .
24 CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN : Aye .
• 25 (See Minutes for Resolution . )
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 143
1 ****************** ***********************
2 (Whereupon, the April 3 , 2014 Public
3 Hearings concluded at 3 : 20 P . M . )
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
• 25
April 3, 2014 Regular Meeting 144
1
2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
3
4
5
6 I , Jessica DiLallo, certify that the
7 foregoing transcript of tape recorded
8 Public Hearings was prepared using
9 required electronic transcription
10 equipment and is a true and accurate
11 record of the Hearings .
12
13
14 Signatur .
15 Jessica DiLallo
16
17
18 Jessica DiLallo
Court Reporter
19 PO Box 984
Holbrook, New York 11741
20
21 Date : April 27 , 2014
22
23
24
25