HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-01/22/2014
John M. Bredemeyer III, President ~~Of SOUIyo Town Hall Annex
Michael J. Domino, Vice-President l~ 54375 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
James F. King, Trustee Southold, New York 11971-0959
Dave Bergen, Trustee G Q
i~ Telephone (631) 765-1892
Charles J. Sanders, Trustee 2J".UNTl Fax (631) 765-6641
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD RECEIVED t
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BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES MA'; 2 ~4 X01_ 4
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD S66thold Town Clerk
Minutes
Wednesday, January 22, 2014
5:30 PM
Present Were: Jay Bredemeyer, President
Michael Domino, Vice-President
Jim King, Trustee
Charles Sanders, Trustee
Elizabeth Cantrell, Clerk Typist
Lori Hulse, Assistant Town Attorney
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, at 8:00 AM
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, February 19, 2014, at 5:30 PM
WORKSESSION: Wednesday, February 19th, 2014, at 5:00 PM
APPROVE MINUTES: Approve Minutes of June 19, 2013
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Good evening. Welcome to the Trustees
regular monthly meeting. Thank you, for joining us today, with
the weather being so inclement earlier in the day.
My name is John Bredemeyer. I am the Chairman of the
Trustees. To my immediate right is Mike Domino who is
vice-president; Lori Hulse is here, she is the Assistant Town
Attorney to provide legal advice; Trustee Clerk, Elizabeth
Cantrell is to her right. To my left is past president of the
Trustees, Jim King; and to his left is Charles Sanders, Trustee
member. Wayne Galante is here to transcribe our Minutes for us.
Board of Trustees 2 January 22, 2014
And from the Conservation Advisory Council, to provide
information from the Conservation Advisory Council reports, is
Peter Young.
MR. YOUNG: John, if I may, I would like to introduce our latest
appointment to the Conservation Advisory Council is another
Peter. Peter Meeker.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Good evening, pleased to meet you, Peter.
MR. MEEKER: Same here.
MS. HULSE: The tape recorder is not working right now.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Let me know when you are ready to go.
We can move our next meeting and approvals and Minutes
approvals. Our next field inspection is set for Wednesday,
February 12, 2014, at eight o'clock AM. Motion to approve the
next field inspection date.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Our next Trustee meeting, I move to have the
meeting Wednesday, February 19th, at 5:30 PM.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Our next work session, move to have it
Wednesday, February 19th, at 5:00 PM.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
We'll have an additional worksession, would have been the
Friday prior, at Downs Farms. So we have the Wednesday the 19th
worksession, inspection on the 12th, that would be Friday the
14th. So I would move that we would have a Downs Farms
worksession at 3:00 PM on Friday, February 14th.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: 3:00 PM, because we have the conflict with
the holiday on that Monday. And then we'll discuss possible
changes to the schedule as previously noted to try to come up
with a rhythm of inspections and reports and working with the
Conservation Advisory Council.
A motion to approve the Minutes of June 19th, 2013?
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make that motion.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
1. MONTHLY REPORT:
The Trustees monthly report for December 2013. A check for
Board of Trustees 3 January 22, 2014
$27,774.93 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the
General Fund.
It. PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for
review.
III. STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEWS:
RESOLVED that the Board of Trustees of the Town of Southold
hereby finds that the following applications more fully
described in Section VII Public Hearings Section of the
Trustee agenda dated Wednesday, January 22, 2014, are classified
as Type II Actions pursuant to SEQRA Rules and Regulations, and
are not subject to further review under SEQRA:
They are listed as follows:
Wickham Family, LLC, c/o Barnaby Wickham - SCTM# 110-8-32.7
Michael & Maria Maroni - SCTM# 70-5-33
Mark Bushell - SCTM# 26-2-22
Thomas J. Aprea, Jr. - SCTM# 37-7-9.1
Oregon Cliffs, LLC, c/o Martin Soja - SCTM# 83-2-10.13
Brewer Yacht Yard at Greenport - SCTM# 36-1-1
Jacqueline Bittner - SCTM# 64-1-31
Roy & Dawn Ward - SCTM# 137-1-8.1
David Page & Barbara Shinn - SCTM# 70-12-39.3
John M. Bredemeyer, Jr. & Jeanne R. Bredemeyer Family Trust, c/o
Eric Bredemeyer as Trustee - SCTM# 26-1-18
Patricia A. Brennan Personal Residence Trust, c/o Patricia &
Donald Brennan - SCTM# 118-2-4.2
Charlotte Raible & Wayne Weiss - SCTM# 99-3-15.1
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: If someone would like to move them, since I
have one I'll have to abstain on. So I would like to move the
SEQRA reviews, and I'll have to abstain from the first item on
page two, John M. Bredemeyer, Jr. & Jeanne R. Bredemeyer Family
Trust, c/o Eric Bredemeyer as Trustee. If someone wants to move
that.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: So moved.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Is there a second?
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES, with exception of Trustee Bredemeyer on the John
Bredemeyer Family Trust).
This evening we are going to try a new procedure for the
Trustees to allow for individuals who may have come a great
Board of Trustees 4 January 22, 2014
distance and have not become aware of an item that may have been
requested to be postponed or, on the part of the Trustees have
required a postponement because we have a lack of information.
So where there is a quorum of Trustees to open a public hearing
and table it, a matter which has been decided to be postponed,
out of deference to people who may have come a great way, we'll
note postponements at the beginning of the meeting. But an
individual who would otherwise like to comment or has concerns
about a project and would like to go on the record, we'll open
the record up for those brief comments. Of course an individual
could also submit written comment to the record. And typically
we try to, items that are tabled or postponed, we try to handle
at the next regular meeting, but to be sure, you should always
check with the Trustee clerk to make sure an item has been put
back on the agenda.
This evening we have postponements on the agenda, I'll run
through them very quickly. If you see or hear an item you would
like to comment on, would you kindly raise your hand and I'll
mark my record so you have an opportunity to speak, if it's
otherwise been noted to be postponed.
The first one I have is page five, number four, Costello
Marine Contracting Corp., on behalf of MICHAEL & MARIA MARONI
requests an Amendment to Wetland Permit #5915 to install a
32"x16' seasonal aluminum ramp onto a 6'x20' seasonal floating
dock secured in-place by four 8" diameter anchor pilings
at offshore end on existing fixed dock. Located: 855 Pine Neck
Road, Southold, has been postponed.
Page five, number five, Fairweather & Brown Associates on
behalf of VASILIOS FRANGOS requests an Amendment to Wetland
Permit #7388 & Coastal Erosion Permit #7388C to replace the
809 square foot decking on the seaward side of the dwelling.
Located: 55755 County Road 48, Southold, has been postponed.
Also on page five, number six, Young & Young on behalf of
OREGON CLIFFS, LLC, c/o MARTIN SOJA requests a Wetland Permit
and a Coastal Erosion Permit to construct a 33' extension to an
existing bulkhead and rock revetment, construct a 4'x114' set of
bluff stairs with a 4'x8' upper platform and six (6) 4'x4'
associated platforms; placement of approximately 325 cubic
yards of clean fill and restore approximately 2,030 sq.ft. of
slope by re-grading area and re-vegetating with a mix of beach
grass, rosa rugosa, bayberry, Virginia rose, and pitch
pine; slope stabilization to incorporate board and stake
terracing. Located: 13457 Oregon Road, Cutchogue, has been
postponed.
On page eight, numbers eight, nine, ten and eleven have
been postponed. They are listed as follows:
Number eight, Eric Bredemeyer on behalf of JOHN M.
BREDEMEYER, JR. & JEANNE R. BREDEMEYER FAMILY TRUST, c/o ERIC
Board of Trustees 5 January 22, 2014
BREDEMEYER AS TRUSTEE requests a Wetland Permit to install 12-6"
diameter piles off bottom for shellfish culture under
existing timber dock; and install four (4) 12"x12" notification
signs onto piles. Located: 2660 Village Lane, Orient.
Number nine, McCarthy Management, Inc. on behalf of 850
PRESIDENT LLC requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 30'x59'
single-family dwelling with drywells; proposed sanitary
system landward of dwelling; and driveway. Located: 7165 New
Suffolk Road, New Suffolk.
Number ten, Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc. on
behalf of JOAN SHANNON requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct
the existing 69' long timber retaining wall with 12' return
using vinyl sheathing; repair existing 12' wide x 67' long lower
decking landward of the retaining wall; repair existing 6'x8'
beach shower; re-vegetate all uncovered ground seaward of the
bluff crest with Cape American beach grass except for an 8' wide
access way to the bulkhead. Located: 7080 Great Peconic Bay
Boulevard, Laurel.
And number eleven, Patricia C. Moore, Esq., on behalf of
J. MILTON HUTSON requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4'x70'
low-profile fixed dock using Thru-Flow decking; a 2.5'x14'
seasonal ramp; and a 6'x20' seasonal float with two (2) stops to
keep float off bottom. Located: 1395 Sleepy Hollow Lane,
Southold.
Is there anyone who wants to speak to any of these
postponed items?
(UNIDENTIFIED VOICE): Sorry, did you mention page seven, number
six, as one of the ones postponed?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes, it was on the preceding page. Page
seven, number six. Yes, that's postponed.
(UNIDENTIFIED VOICE): We would like to make a comment, if we
may. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'll make that note.
IV. RESOLUTIONS - ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Under Resolution for Administrative Permits,
the Board has reviewed the Administrative Permit applications
during the course of our inhouse worksession and also during the
course of field inspections, and these, ordinarily, to expedite
the meeting, these are relatively minor activities with little
or no environmental impact or according to standard form, so
these are items that can be approved as a group, typically, so
that we can expedite our meeting.
Items one, three and four could be moved as a group. They
are listed as follows:
Number one, Coastline Cesspool & Drain Services on behalf
of ROBERT SCHNOOR requests an Administrative Permit to abandon
Board of Trustees 6 January 22, 2014
existing septic system and replace in-kind with (1) 1,000 gallon
septic tank and (1) 8'x12' leaching cesspool. Located: 335
Soundview Road, Orient.
Number three, TOWN OF SOUTHOLD requests an Administrative
Permit to reconstruct a +/-8'x30' boardwalk with handrails for
the Bay to Sound Trails project to expand trail system to
new section of preserve. Located: 60100 Chapel Lane, Greenport.
And number four, Briarcliff Landscape on behalf of STRONG'S
MARINE INLET, LLC c/o STRONG'S WATER CLUB & MARINA requests an
Administrative Permit to install a 6,000sq.ft. Beach using 222
cubic yards of washed beach sand; installation of a 6,160 sq.ft.
pervious pool patio and 4' high pool fence; installation of a
80 sq.ft. patio around flag pole; vegetate area with palm trees,
roses and hibiscus; transplant a cherry tree; and install an
ornamental boat structure. Located: 2255 Wickham Avenue,
Mattituck.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I would so move them at this time.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll second that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Item number two, Creative Environmental
Design on behalf of JULIANE & RUSSELL KARSTEN requests
an Administrative Permit for a Ten Year Maintenance Permit to
hand cut the Common Reed (Phragmites australis) to not less than
12" in height and to cut the wild rose ramble to 18" high on an
as needed basis. Located: 57908 Main Road, Southold.
This application, I believe, based on the field inspection
the Trustees had made subsequent to meeting with the applicant
in the field, and previously visiting this application, I
believe it was the feeling of the Board that it would be
appropriate to limit the cutting of the existing vegetation to
no lower than the top of the fence, so that the application to
cut the wild rose and ramble to 18" high on an as-needed basis
is not appropriate for this location because the site had
previously been established as a non-disturbance area, and while
we recognize that some of the vegetation there are exotic and
not indigenous, we are reluctant to cut any lower than the fence
height for creating problems in that area. I'm just wondering,
is anybody here for Juliane and Russell Karsten?
(No response).
It's not a hearing, but I just wanted to let them know we
would be modifying this.
I would take a motion to restrict this application to the
height of, accordingly, no higher than the fence for the rose
ramble. I'll entertain a motion on that.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll second that.
TRUSTEE KING: It's okay for the 12" on the phragmites?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We thought it was okay for 12" on the
Board of Trustees 7 January 22, 2014
phragmites. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
V. APPLICATIONS FOR EXTENSIONS/TRANSFERS/ADMINISTRATIVE
AMENDMENTS:
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Under agenda item Roman numeral V, on the
agenda, applications for extensions, transfers and administrative
amendments, these actions are also minor in nature. The Board has reviewed
each one of these files, or individual Trustees have inspected the site for report
back to the Trustees in a worksession.
Based on the review of these files, I believe there was,
correct me if I'm wrong, I don't believe we had any difficulties
with any of these as submitted. If the Board just wants to
review these quickly and see if we want to pull any for further
discussion or any changes. If not, I'll move them as a group.
They are listed as follows:
Number one, Robert Barratt on behalf of KENNETH B. & JOANN
ZAHLER requests a Transfer of Wetland Permit #8273 from
Edgewater 11, LLC to Kenneth B. & Joann Zahler, as issued
on August 21, 2013, and Amended on November 13, 2013. Located:
63735 Route 48, Greenport.
Number two, ROBERT & JENNIFER PLACE requests a Transfer of
Wetland Permit #1584 from En-Consultants for Robert Fairlie to
Robert & Jennifer Place, as issued on March 4, 1983.
Located: 3765 Wells Avenue, Southold.
Number three, ALI REZA HOMAYUNI requests an Administrative
Amendment to Wetland Permit #7896 for the as-built upper
4'x12'9" platform; as-built 30"x12' fixed steps to beach with
gate at top of steps; and to install composite material on
existing 6'10"x57.6" open structural area to enlarge the
existing platform. Located: 22195 Soundview Avenue, Southold.
Number four, Patricia C. Moore, Esq. on behalf of DIANE
MACARI requests an Administrative Amendment to Wetland Permit
#8116 for a 16'x32' pool with patios, decking and retaining
walls to be no closer than 34.5' and 42' from edge of wetlands.
Located: 465 Halls Creek, Mattituck.
Number five, LESLIE & JOE LaVECCHIA request an
Administrative Amendment to Wetland Permit #8173 for the pool
fencing to remain as depicted on (amended plans) at 900 and 700
Birds Eye Road, Orient, SCTM# 1000-17-2-1.009 and
#1000-17-2-1.014; in the event the license agreement between
applicant and adjacent property owners John H. Josephson,
Carolina Zapf and Interwellen Property Partners, LLC is
terminated, the pool fence is to be relocated along property
lines and along edge of established lawn as depicted... within 60
days; and for the retaining wall that was constructed further
landward against the side of the pool. Located: 908 Birds Eye
Board of Trustees 8 January 22, 2014
Road, Orient.
Number six, Eugene Burger on behalf of MILL CREEK PARTNERS,
LLC requests an Administrative Amendment to Wetland Permit #8029
to modify the existing docking facility structures as described;
Ramp A: Install a 6'x12' fixed ramp leading to a 6'x6' landing
to a 4'x30' gangway, and to add an 8' jog into the bulkhead and
raise it to elevation 6' within this area in order to retain
soil on bank; Ramp B: Install a 12'8"x16'8" access deck leading
to a 4'x30' ramp, and to add an 8' jog into the bulkhead and
raise it to elevation 6' within this area in order to retain
soil on bank; Ramp C: Install a 4'4"x24' pitched walkway
leading to a 3'8"x30' gangway; Ramp D: Install a 5'x14' pitched
walkway leading to a 3'8"x30' gangway; Ramp E: Install a 5'x27'
pitched walkway leading to a 4'8"x30' gangway, and to add an 8'
jog into a the bulkhead and raise it to elevation 6' within this
area in order to retain soil on bank. Located: 64300 Route 25,
Greenport.
Number seven, Michael Kimack on behalf of SHAMGAR CAPITAL,
LLC, c/o DANIEL BUTTAFUOCO requests an Administrative Amendment
to Wetland Permit #8271 to downsize the proposed driveway to a
3,700 sq.ft. paved area that is to be 10' wide with a partial
stone driveway section; paved area to have 8 drywells installed
for runoff. Located: 1165 Kimberly Lane, Southold.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll second that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'll move as a group items one, two, three,
four, five, six and seven, under applications for extensions
transfers, administrative amendments, and seconded. Thank you.
All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
VI. RESOLUTIONS - OTHER:
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Under Resolution - Other, number six.
This resolution is a housekeeping measure to correct language in the
permit that didn't clearly comport with what was voted on at the
meeting, and the permit copy was not reflecting what was
discussed and voted on at the meeting. This more accurately
matches what the Board voted on and for what actually should
have been on the permit copy.
Number one, Amend Resolution dated December 11, 2013 to
read as follows: RESOLVED, that the Town of Southold Board of
Trustees APPROVES the application of THOMAS & LINDA KELLY for a
Wetland Permit for construction of a 20'x40' with 12'x16' "L"
extension in-ground pool; construct a 1,700sq.ft. Pool patio;
install 4' high pool fencing; construct a 10'x12' tool shed;
construct a 700 sq.ft. terrace seaward of existing covered porch;
and re-vegetate previously cleared areas; with the conditions of
establishing a 50' wide Non-Disturbance Buffer landward of the
Board of Trustees 9 January 22, 2014
edge of wetlands; that the pool fence to be located on the
border of the Non-Disturbance Buffer; the Non-Disturbance Buffer
is to be re-vegetated using native vegetation; and a pool
drywell to be installed. Located: 4553 Wickham Avenue, Mattituck.
So I would move to approve this as written.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
VII. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
AMENDMENTS:
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: At this time we'll go off of our agenda and
go on to our public hearing agenda. And at this time I would
like to emphasize that because the weather has been difficult
today and road conditions are relatively hazardous, that I would
emphasize if you could make your comments particularly short and
concise and we'll try to accommodate everyone getting out of
here at an early hour and getting home safely.
At this time I make a motion to go off our regular agenda
and go on to our public hearings.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number one, MARK BUSHELL requests a Transfer of
Wetland Permit #3746 from Stephen Matteini to Mark Bushell, as
issued on June 22, 1989, and Amended on June 24, 2009; for an
Amendment to Wetland Permit #3746 and for a Coastal Erosion
Permit to excavate the landward side of existing 124' long
bulkhead and two 10' long returns to install new vinyl
Sheathing, piles, and deadmen; new tie-rods will be connected to
new 10"x20' long piling installed adjacent to existing
facepiles. Located: 1060 Willow Terrace Lane, Orient.
The LWRP coordinator found this to be inconsistent. The
inconsistency is that the bulkhead structure as described is not
constructed pursuant to Trustee review or with a Chapter 275
Wetland Permit. The Conservation Advisory Council resolved to
support the application.
Is anyone here to speak to this application?
MR. BUSHELL: Mark Bushell. I'm here. I don't have anything to say.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Are there any comments or questions from the
Board?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: No. With respect to the inconsistency from
the LWRP coordinator. 1989, 1 know predated the Coastal Erosion
Hazard Act. The 1989 date also is prior to revisions where the
Board of Town Trustees held a permit. It's possible, but without
knowing that there may have been a wetland permit issued by the
Town Board, because this project is being proposed to use
Board of Trustees 10 January 22, 2014
non-toxic bulkheading material and pre-exists coastal erosion
and may have pre-existed the Trustees, having the town wetland
ordinance under their tutelage, and it is in conformity with the
current construction standards since it is a Navy-bulkhead type
of construction that is expected to last more than 30 years, I
would I believe the inconsistency could be addressed through the
proposed permitting process as the application has been submitted.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: It's also suggested that the 15-foot non-turf
buffer, which will also help address the inconsistency.
Hearing no further comments or questions, I'll make a
motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I make a motion to approve this application as
submitted, noting that by doing so will address the
inconsistency, with the addition of a 15-foot non-turf buffer.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The next application, number two, under
wetland permits, Stephen Searl on behalf of WICKHAM FAMILY, LLC,
c/o BARNABY WICKHAM requests an Amendment to Wetland Permit
#6649 to add one large rock top row to existing 104' revetment;
install stone filled reno mattresses landward of revetment; and
fill existing eroded area with clean fill. Located: 5005 New
Suffolk Road, New Suffolk.
This project has been deemed to be consistent with the
LWRP. The CAC supports the application and recommends a splash
pad landward of the crest of the revetment. And the Board has
reviewed this application and it is consistent with neighboring
projects which also have made use of similar construction. It
was heavily damaged by Tropical Storm Sandy.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this
application?
MR. SEARL: Stephen Searl here. I have nothing to add further at
this time. But any questions or concerns I would be happy to
address.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Any members of the Board, any questions or
concerns?
(No response).
Hearing none, I'll make a motion to close the hearing in this matter.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I would make a motion to approve this
application as submitted, noting that it is consistent with the
LWRP; and that the stone filled reno mattress-type of
construction addresses the concerns of the CAC. This particular
Board of Trustees II January 22, 2014
construction is actually designed to handle overtopping water
and will reduce the erosion to the landward side of the
structure. So I would move to approve as submitted.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: Number three, THOMAS J. APREA requests an
Amendment to Wetland Permit #8085 and Coastal Erosion Permit
#8085C to place approximately 300 feet of barrier cloth and
approximately 1' in diameter rocks in front of and on top of
existing bulkhead; for the as-built cap-stones on top of
existing redi-rock seawall; seawall is 54" above wooden bulkhead
to top of cap-stone; for the existing accent lighting along
seaward side of bulkhead; install aluminum stairs to beach; and
for the as-built +/-2,000 cubic yards of fill landward of
seawall. Located: 500 Beach Court, East Marion.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: This was one that was held over, I believe.
In the original assessment from the LWRP it was found to be
consistent. The CAC resolved to support the application, with
no changes.
Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of or against this
application?
MR. D'AMARO: Yes, sir. I'm Jerry D'Amaro from D'Amaro
Engineering and Surveying. I'm here to represent my client,
Thomas Aprea, who is vacationing in Tampa.
TRUSTEE KING: Part of this was a project that was approved in
May of 2013 for the proposed redi-rock wall. There has been some
controversy over that because it was not built according to
plans. Quite frankly, I don't know exactly where we are going
to go with this.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It's a very difficult issue, because we try
to recognize individuals' rights and responsibilities to protect
their shoreline, but it's unusual that the Board would have
granted a permit and then find something at such variance from
what we approved; the construction having been altered
afterwards with no notification and prior consideration by the
Board of Trustees or a revised application that would have been
reviewed by the Local Waterfront Revitalization Program
coordinator. Its unusual, too, because during the period of,
even going back to Tropical Storm Irene and subsequently
Tropical Storm Sandy, the Board of Trustees and Department of
Environmental Conservation, while we granted approvals for
structures to be higher, typically, the limitations for
structures being higher than prior existing structures were on
the order of 12 to 18 inches, and the permit we granted, the
terms of which were not honored by this construction, was
already permitting a bulkhead which was some four feet above the
prior construction. And so this is far and away much more than
Board of Trustees 12 January 22, 2014
the usual amount. The standards of the Coastal Erosion Hazard
Protection Act, that this project lies within that regulatory
zone, in front of that line, has specific standards concerning
protecting the stability of littoral lands. And the reason the
Trustees and the Department of Environmental Conservation
typically is allowing only incremental increases in height is to
prevent possible damage offsite of additional forces of wind and
waves. So the Board, instead of immediately dispatching the bay
constable, has been trying to work with the applicant because we
do recognize the very difficult situation of the storm, but we
do take exception to work taking place that was not in
conformity with the permit.
So I don't know how we are going to go with this. You know,
there has been a suggestion made that removal of one of the
block elements and possibly a redesign to get that height more
in keeping with what we originally approved, and you as a design
professional could assist in that matter. I think that is sort
of the way the discussion is going during several field
inspections the Trustees have been on and as part of our work
session this month.
MR. D'AMARO: Mr. Chairman, there are two issues. There is the
height of the wall and of course the reveal or face of the wall
that is exposed. To mitigate and bring it to within conformance
of the permit, my client wants to put a rock revetment, in fact
you have it listed here on your agenda, in front of the wall, to
reduce the reveal. As far as the height goes, it is true that
the wall was proposed to be several feet behind the bulkhead.
The bulkhead at the time was about 18 inches higher than what it
presently is. That top 18 inches was destroyed during Sandy. So
there is no elevations in any datum shown on the site plan. The
height of the wall in elevation, the top of the wall, the
elevation of the top of the wall would be actually lower right
now than if the bulkhead was intact with the 18 inches on top
and the wall setback from that four feet.
So, again, we are trying to mitigate the front reveal of
the wall to within conformance and bring the height of the wall
or demonstrate the height of the wall is actually in
conformance, the elevation of the wall.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: As you know, the Trustees make field
inspections. Before issuing that permit in May of 2013, there
was an inspection. At that time, what we approved, and
subsequent to that, was a four-foot high wall, which I have to
disagree with your comments, would not be anywhere near the
height of the present wall. As you correctly noted, it was
further back from the bulkhead. But it was also much lower.
TRUSTEE KING: It was supposed to be four feet above grade.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Yes, which the grade was much lower than the
bulkhead. The height of the, that was approved for that permit,
Board of Trustees 13 January 22, 2014
was not tied into the elevation of the bulkhead. But the grade,
which was, and correct me if I'm wrong, about a foot-and-a-half
lower than the bulkhead.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: So we are looking at a structure that is
significantly higher than what we had anticipated.
MR. D'AMARO: You are saying the existing grade behind the
bulkhead, on the landward side of the bulkhead, was 18" below
the top of the bulkhead?
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Yes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes.
MR. D'AMARO: I was not aware of that. I didn't see it. As you
know, I was brought in just recently.
TRUSTEE KING: The top of the wall was supposed to be four feet
above grade.
MR. D'AMARO: Let me say his property is the point. And that
seawall is going to protect not only his property but several
properties behind that property. That is the one and only line
of defense you have for any kind of storm that comes through
there. I think that the seawall that was constructed will serve
that purpose. Lowering its height anything lower than what it
is, I think will cause the seawall not to function, potentially,
as well in a storm.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Not to belabor the discussion, because I
think there is additional concerns about going to that height
and putting it more to the seaward, because that also means you
are more into the Coastal Erosion Hazard Area. But without
belaboring that, are you authorized to make any modifications
and submit us a new plan that might reduce the height by one of
the larger blocks; in other words not the capstone but one of
the 14' of the redi-blocks? Do you have the authorization to
amend the structure?
MR. D'AMARO: I would have to discuss that with my client. I know
there was a problem with the type of block, where if the top
block was removed, the capstone would not lock on to the block
below it. So because of that, it would have to be removed along
with the top block. The capstone and the top block.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: To be appropriately fair with you, because
we are trying to work with you, could we ask you to return,
formally return to the owner and formally request the
possibility of making such a modification; and if the owner is
amenable, that we could have a new plan drawing that would also
indicate the height of such a wall at its top, with the
reduction of one of those 14" redi-block stones, and you would
also incorporate on your plan, draw the coastal erosion hazard
area line and provide us with a first floor elevation of the
building. So that would be three things.
Board of Trustees 14 January 22, 2014
TRUSTEE KING: Can we also get the elevation of the top of the
wall as it is now?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. The wall as it exists now. And
what you would propose to lower it if we move one of those
blocks. And the coastal erosion hazard area line on your
professional engineering drawing, and the first floor elevation.
If you could review that with the owner and possibly
accommodate us, I think that would put us in a far better way to
move on this application.
MR. D'AMARO: Yes, I can certainly do that, and I'll discuss that
with the owner. As far as removing the top block, as I was
mentioning, I think you were in a discussion when I said it, the
capstone is designed to lock into that top block, so if we
remove that top block, the capstone can't be put back on there.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: It can't lock into the one below it?
MR. D'AMARO: The one below it has protrusions that the capstone
can't sit on top of that. That capstone has a flat top.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, for our part, if you can give us that
information, we'll rely on you. If there is any variance with
what we just requested, you would have to possibly take that up
with the owner and provide us with the details in your plan. It
had been discussed informally on field inspection, that the
possibility is that the redi-blocks, the one line of redi-blocks
that might be removed, and then possibly you could work out a
customization of the cap as such, would be up to you as the
design professional. But the redi-block could also be used to
stabilize the front as part of the revetment structure that has
been proposed by Costello Marine so the materials can continue
to be used onsite for the betterment of the project. That was
just a thought. But as a design professional we would leave it
to you to make your proposal.
MR. D'AMARO: I'll do that. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Any additional comments, questions,
concerns?
(No response).
Hearing none, I'll make a motion to table this matter upon
receipt of plans and consideration by the owner. Thank you, very
much.
MR. D'AMARO: Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: So moved.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll second that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
WETLAND & COASTAL EROSION PERMITS:
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number five, under Wetland and Coastal Erosion
Permits, Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of THOMAS
Board of Trustees 15 January 22, 2014
J. APREA, JR., requests a Wetland Permit and a Coastal Erosion
Permit to place 250 cubic yards of dredge spoil on beach area as
beach nourishment spread over 2,700 square feet between jetties
above spring high water. Located: 500 Beach Court, East Marion.
The LWRP coordinator found this found this to be
consistent. The Conservation Advisory Council resolved to
support this application.
Is there anyone here to speak to this application?
MR. COSTELLO: My name is John Costello, with Costello Marine
Contracting. We are the agents for this application for Mr.
Aprea. If the Board has any questions, it is a utilization of
some minor degree of the sand that we have permits for dredging
out of the inlet, and it's trying to just eliminate some of the
erosion that is going along that shoreline, and enter a bypass
of some of the material to the direction that it is in desperate
need of. Any other questions the Board has?
TRUSTEE KING: John, do you have any idea when this operation
will take place?
MR. COSTELLO: It's just a matter of when they schedule the
Gardiners Bay allows us to go in there and dredge some of the
materials. We have windows. I don't have the window dates with
me. But the DEC only allows certain times. But usually it's the
last moment, like everything else.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm just thinking of the previous application here
where he wants to put rip rap in front of the bulkhead and that
wall.
MR. COSTELLO: Well, it's 250 yards of fill spread down there.
It's not a lot. It will disappear. There is some scouring on one
side of the small jetties that exist. Just basically fill in
those holes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Maybe we can just table the rock revetment.
TRUSTEE KING: This application didn't include the rock revetment.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Sorry, it didn't include the revetment.
Okay, sorry.
TRUSTEE KING: That answers my question. It's not an issue.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Any other questions, comments from the Board?
(No response).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Hearing none, I'll make a motion to close this
hearing.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I make a motion to approve this application as
submitted.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The next hearing has been requested to be
Board of Trustees 16 January 22, 2014
postponed, but as discussed earlier, the new procedure for the
Board will be to allow some limited comments for the record for
people who may have traveled some distance, to allow for public
participation. The hearing will then be, the Board will then
postpone any formal action on this with the conditions, whether
it was the request of the applicant or we need additional
information so the conditions are met to the satisfaction of the
clerk, the matter will be put back on the record.
So we can open number six up for some comments as
requested.
Is there anyone here who wants to add any comments for
number six, Young & Young on behalf of OREGON CLIFFS, LLC c/o
MARTIN SOJA?
(UNIDENTIFIED VOICE): It was not this one. It was on page
seven.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: That one is not marked as a postponement on
the agenda. We'll be hearing that. So I'll dispense with my
comments with respect to number six.
Next item, under Wetland Permits, number one, High Point
Engineering on behalf of BREWER YACHT YARD AT GREENPORT requests
a Wetland Permit for the replacement of +/-205 linear feet of
existing timber bulkhead with proposed vinyl bulkhead raised 18"
higher to match existing adjacent bulkhead elevation to the
south; demolish and reconstruct existing restroom building
within existing footprint with roof runoff to drain to grade and
discharge to the Eastern Basin via NYSDEC Approved Outfall 003
to the north per existing conditions; existing timber docks to
be replace in-kind as follows: 125 linear feet of 6'-8' wide
fixed dock fronting building/bulkhead, 75' of 3'-4' wide fixed
dock fronting bulkhead to the north, two (2) 4'x53' fixed docks
perpendicular to bulkhead, and one (1) 6'x48' floating dock with
15' ramp perpendicular to bulkhead. Located: 1410 Manhasset
Avenue,Greenport.
This application has been deemed to be inconsistent with
the town's LWRP. The inconsistency has been noted that the
project must comply with the Trustee recommendations and permit
conditions to comply with coastal consistency, so that this
permit review process going forward, should it result in a permit
being granted, will meet the requirements of the LWRP.
The Conservation Advisory Council report the Conservation
Advisory Council supports the application with a clarification
of how the leaching and septic system will correspond with the
renovation of the restroom; will the structures be demolished or
renovated; and is the size of the floating dock permitted.
And the Trustees, during the course of our monthly field
inspections, we had raised the question concerning using
non-toxic decking for the replacement deck work. That would
accompany any new bulkheading. And there was a question of
Board of Trustees 17 January 22, 2014
whether or not the roof runoff for the restroom renovation would
be put into drywells or make plans to be put into drywells,
noting that there is a regulated discharge pipe that is under
permit with the Department of Environmental Conservation. Those
were the concerns of the Trustees on field inspection.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak to this application?
MR. COLLINS: Yes. My name is Zachary Collins. I'm from High
Point Engineering, with offices at 521 Conklin Street in
Farmingdale, New York.
And to address those issues, first off, for the capturing
of the roof runoff, the applicant is amenable to propose to
capture the runoff on the roof and discharge into an underground
infiltration system via drywell or some other means as feasible.
So, we are amenable to that.
With respect to the existing sanitary system, no modifications are
proposed to the existing sanitary system. Currently the sewage
waste travels into a sewage pump system located to the east, or I
guess north of the proposed restroom building which will then be piped
into the existing sanitary system north of the cabana building, and that
is proposed to remain. And I'm sorry, was there another concern?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: A concern, we saw a section of decking there
that appeared to be a treated lumber. The requirements of the
town wetland code is that decking associated with docks and
bulkheading should be of a non-toxic material. It would be
approved tropical hardwoods or plastic, non-toxic plastics.
MR. COLLINS: Absolutely. The applicant can definitely agree to
any material used in the proposed construction of the bulkhead
or decking to be non-toxic.
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the construction. That
was the materials that were used in the dock replacement, that
happened about five or six years ago. It's all EPA-compliant
material.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The new material also.
MR. COLLINS: Yes. And at this time, we do want to clarify the
description and scope of work on that. We had an incorrect
description on the plans. On the plans show two fixed docks and
one floating dock to be replaced inkind. We would like to
clarify that. There are currently, those docks were replaced
about five or six years ago, and we would like to modify the
description to maintain those three existing floating docks as
is right now. No modification or replacement to that. So, we
apologize for the inconvenience, but the description was listed
as incorrect. So these three docks, the plans list this as a
fixed dock, a fixed dock and a floating dock to be replaced
inkind. Those have been replaced recently with floating docks.
They, we would like to propose to leave those as is and not
replace them at this time. So amend the description and scope
of work.
Board of Trustees 18 January 22, 2014
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: That's sufficiently minor. It's in the same
footprint. I don't think anyone has an issue with that.
MR. COLLINS: We want to just clarify that at this time so there
was no confusion.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. I have a specific question.
Because of the disturbance, you know, with renovating the
building and redoing that restroom, has there been any thoughts
to replace the ejection pump; and does the ejection pump have an
alarm system? Because it's located so close to the water area
there. Presently the town is involved in sampling shellfish
meets out of Sterling Basin and hopefully we will be harvesting
shellfish out of that, so I guess I would request that if your
sewage ejection pump is nearing the end of its service life
and/or it's not equipped, usually they are doubly alarmed, if
it's not alarmed I would highly recommend it and request we
might even put that in the terms of the permit. I think it's
important, with much this area going back into shellfish harvest, so
we would not have an accident that might impact the surface
water quality.
MR. COLLINS: Right. We were proposing to maintain the existing
sewage ejection pump as is. It has been functioning without
difficulty.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Would the applicant be prepared to just make
sure the alarm system is functioning and working properly?
MR. COLLINS: It has been replaced recently. I do not know if
there is an alarm system but we are amenable to any conditions
you may
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Putting an alarm system on it.
MR. COLLINS: Yes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes
to speak on behalf of this application?
MR. ACEBO: Yes. Mike Acebo, manager of Brewer Yacht Yard. We
are also working with the Village of Greenport to, they are
doing a study now, engineering study, to figure out how they can
get a sewer line to the Sandy Beach area and the small houses
along the Sandy Beach row, and all of the area on Beach Road
down toward Cliff Park. That's all in the Village of Greenport.
It's served with Village of Greenport electricity. There is
water service down there from the Suffolk County Water Authority
and they are all on septic systems. The village is trying to
figure out how they can expand the use of their sewage plant. I
think the DEC is trying to get them onboard on that. They have
plans of going to Shelter Island. They have plans of going
underneath Sterling Basin to get over to Sandy Beach area. We
approached them and said we have a restaurant that is right in
the Village of Greenport and we have a marina and customers in
the Village of Greenport, boat yards in the Village of Greenport
and Sterling Harbor Marina, and we would be happy to contribute
Board of Trustees 19 January 22, 2014
financially to help them run a line down at Champlin Place and
Manhasset to get it down to where they need to have a sewage
line.
So we are working, I'll say I have been doing this for 25
years, but we are still working aggressively with the village to
try to get a sewer line in there. We need to have a good sewer
line through Sterling Basin. We want to get rid of the septic
system there. We understand the problems, the use of that system
and the pump station and the inability to increase the size. We
just want to get rid of it at some time and we are working with
the village as aggressively as we can to get a sewer line down
there. So that's our hopes in the future so that we can have a
nice, clean environment and run the place properly. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you, very much. Is there anyone else
who wishes to speak to this application?
(No response).
Hearing no further comments, I'll make a motion to close the
hearing in this matter.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I would make a motion to approve the
application in this matter with the stipulation that you submit
that amended language to us just in case we didn't quite get it
on the record; that you provide an amendment to your drawings to
show the drywell system; and that would have to be, that, if the
drywell system comes within the town, it will have to undergo
town drainage review depending on which side that comes. It may
have to go through the village for your drywell. I don't know if
they have been doing an engineering assessment. And as noted,
the decking shall be all non-toxic decking; and that the sewage
pump station shall be alarmed and that the alarm system, if
currently existing, could be checked as a condition of the
permit. So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: Number two, Siyu Liu on behalf of JACQUELINE
BITTNER requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 408 sq.ft.
addition to the southwest corner of the dwelling; expand front
entry approximately 45 sq.ft. with 34 sq.ft. porch; construct a
227 sq.ft. landward addition to existing garage; construct a
745 sq.ft. rear porch; construction of two dormers on north side
and widen existing dormers on south side of dwelling; and expand
the 2nd story over single story portion of dwelling. Located:
809 Maple Lane, Southold.
MS. LIU: I am Siyu Liu. I'm here for the applicant.
TRUSTEE KING: Just let me get through this first. This was found
Board of Trustees 20 January 22, 2014
consistent with the LWRP coordinator. He recommends the
establishment of a vegetated non-turf buffer landward of the top
of the bank. The Conservation Advisory Council moved to support
the application with the condition of gutters, leaders and
drywells installed to contain roof runoff.
Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of or against this
application?
MS. LIU: I'm Siyu Liu and I am the architect for Jacqueline
Bittner. I'm here to answer any questions.
TRUSTEE KING: We were all out there. I don't think there were
any real issues. We recommend a ten-foot non-turf buffer.
Mike, you had mentioned something about testhole data?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I had written that in the review. There was
a concern I had with the volume of work you are doing of rooms
inside, whether you had considered putting a new sanitary system
in during the course, because of excavating for drywells,
bringing equipment in for putting up new walls and moving rooms,
it might be an opportune time to upgrade the private subsurface
sewage disposal system that would be to the benefit of the
owners as far as a consumer item because once the property has
been disturbed and then returned with landscaping, and major
additions to the home, it would be a shame to have a sanitary
system fail, and you would have to go in. It's essentially a
recommendation.
MS. LIU: Yes, we will do that. I already talked to the
homeowner, we would like to improve the septic system. We don't
really know exactly where the system is right now but it's on
the water side. So we are going to go to the health department
to move it to the other side.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: If it's a pre-existing, nonconforming house,
then it's a renovation, you would not need a Health Department
approval provided you use a design professional
that would attest to the fact that it's meeting the sanitary
code requirements. And you could then send an amendment, you
could provide an amendment to the Trustees. If you can move the
sanitary system to the front of the house, it would be
non-jurisdictional for the Trustees and it would put it out of
the wetland zone. That would be even better, if you could
engineer that.
MS. LIU: We will definitely do it. We already decided. If we get
approval from you and DEC and she goes ahead with the house, then
we'll definitely move it.
TRUSTEE KING: Would that put it out of our jurisdiction.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We can do it conditioned on the permit.
TRUSTEE KING: Did you scale that?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It's going to be more than 100 feet.
TRUSTEE KING: So we don't have to make that a condition of the
permit.
Board of Trustees 21 January 22, 2014
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: If we were to grant the permit now, if you
had to put it in the front because you have limitations with the
engineer, you would have to come back for an amendment to the
permit. But if it's non-jurisdictional and you go to the health
department and DEC and you put it in the front, you would not
have to come back to this Board.
MS. LIU: That would be great.
TRUSTEE KING: I just scaled it off. Any place on the landward
side of the house is out of our jurisdiction. So if it's on the
landward side of the house, it's out of our jurisdiction, so you
don't need anything from us on that.
MS. LIU: Okay, perfect.
TRUSTEE KING: I thought most of the renovations were pretty
minor myself. Small additions. The expansion of the garage is
really out of our jurisdiction also, as part of this permit. So,
anybody else have any comments?
(No response).
Any further comments from the audience?
(No response).
I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application as
submitted.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number three, Twin Fork Landscape Contracting,
Inc. on behalf of ROY & DAWN WARD requests a Wetland Permit for
the as-built 4'x55' fixed dock; a 4'x10' ramp; a 6'x38' float,
and a 6'x14' float; for the as-built 18'x50' patio with a
118sq.ft. Landing with steps; patio to remain open to the sky
and drainage provided to contain run-off; no further
construction of any structures/storage buildings between the
patio and the bulkhead; and install and subsequently maintain a
10' wide non-turf buffer along the landward edge of the
bulkhead. Located: 4075 Stillwater Avenue, Cutchogue.
The LWRP coordinator found this to be inconsistent. The
inconsistency as he noted is the fact that the dock as
constructed does not conform to existing Chapter 275
regulations. The float is oversized, which is not permissible.
The configuration does not match the dock structure on the 2005
plans and has been altered since that year. The CAC voted to
support this application, with no conditions. The Trustees, on
January 15th field inspection, also noted that the float is
non-compliant. The float dimensions that are listed in the
application are also not correct. We measured the float. It is
6'x38' and tendered 6'x14' float, 4'x55' dock, 4'x15' ramp.
Board of Trustees 22 January 22, 2014
There was also water and electricity on the dock. There is no
ten-foot buffer which was in the original permit and suggested
by the LWRP coordinator. There are two pilings for the float.
And in addition, the patio is 25 foot from the bulkhead, where
the deck which had been approved was 36 feet from the bulkhead.
Is there anyone here to speak to this application?
MR. FABB: Yes. William Fabb, Twin Fork Landscape Contracting.
We are the agent for Mr. Ward. I have nothing to add. I can
answer any questions or concerns that the Board might have.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Well, the first thing we have to address is the
fact that the float as noted is nearly twice the size of what is permissible
by Town Code. Town Code allows 6'x20'. So we have to, since this
is an as-built application, we have to address those issues.
TRUSTEE KING: Mike, was there a permit on the existing; was
there a permit for the open dock? I'm curious what the
conditions were approved on the previous permit.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I think there is one.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: (Perusing).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I think there actually is one, unless I'm
confusing this with another job.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: There is a Trustee permit 5443, dated October
26, 2001.
TRUSTEE KING: Is that for the bulkhead?
TRUSTEE DOMINO: That's for the 72' bulkhead. There is another
conditional permit, April 6, 1983, for a wooden retaining wall;
May 7, 1980, permission to replace, to place catwalk and
floating dock on private property. Listed below. There is a
lined up drawing here, with no dimensions.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: No dimensions, but I think there was
subsequently, if you go back, I think there was verbiage that
added the dimensions. I thought that was scaled off. I mean I
thought there was an old permit from the Trustees.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: (Perusing). Okay, here it is. We have a float.
Again, this is by the Trustees, November 5, 1979. The float
approved was 8'x10'. The catwalk was 4'x10'. So it is
significantly larger. Sorry it took so long to answer your
question.
TRUSTEE KING: It's okay. We seem to run into this for the
as-builts. Usually there is an old permit that has been expanded
without any amendments to it, which that's the case here.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: So how do we address this?
TRUSTEE KING: I think the float should be downsized to 6x20.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: And the non-turf buffer, which is a prior
permit condition, that doesn't exist at this time, so actually
that's a dual violation.
MR. YOUNG: They do note it in their letter, the Trustees, of
December 17.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: They are intending in their application to
Board of Trustees 23 January 22, 2014
put it in, but the history is the dock grew and the non-turf
buffer had not been installed previously.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: So those are the two major issues. Do you
understand?
MR. FABB: Right. One of the major issues, I know we submitted a
plan to rectify the LWRP off the as-built patio. That would take
care of their drainage storm water runoff issues. We've also, in
that plan that we submitted, show the non-turf buffer we would
go ahead and install between the bulkhead and that as-built
patio to rectify those violations. What we are trying to do is
bring them in compliance. We have come in the 9th hour here, so
what happened, you know.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I do see where it's noted the turf is to be
removed, but I don't see a dimension.
MR. FABB: Everything on the water side, between that patio and
the top of that bulkhead, will be non-turf. The whole entire
area. With indigenous material.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: All right. So the last item to address would be
the float dimensions.
MR. FABB: Correct. My client has informed me that a lot of this
work, as far as the dock work, was prior to him purchasing the
property. This was part of the reason why because of, you know
tidal conditions and things, shallow water there, it's, you
know, really the only dimensions that he's able to get off the
point, because of the way his property is situated on the
waterfront. Now, if there was something the Board would
consider, maybe upgrading the decking material, on that pier, to
come into compliance, remove the CCA, ACQ, I don't know what's
on there right now, if that's a possibility. We are open to
suggestions.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: We are not addressing the length of the dock.
The float is perpendicular the code allows 6x20. You have to
downsize that. And that will not have changed the depth to
water. So that's not an issue.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I think it would be appropriate to bring
this to a conclusion. The Board could not approve a float
greater than 6x20, and we would certainly want to see the
non-turf buffer, so it would be appropriate if Trustee Domino
wanted to move it with the condition of a 6x20 float and a time
limit to establish the buffer, understanding the buffers will
not be established within the next month, reasonable time to get
the buffer established.
MR. FABB: Sure.
It's my understanding that float has been 38' since the
70's. I'm not going to dispute something went on later on, that
they extended to get to deeper water, but if you scroll up and
down that waterway, there is plenty of 40' foot docks.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: As Trustee Bredemeyer pointed out, we could not
Board of Trustees 24 January 22, 2014
approve things that violate the code. We could also not approve
things that were done without Trustee permit. Unless they were
compliant with the code. It is our general practice to make, to
approve catwalks or docks that are the average of the existing
or adjacent land. And you can see the one immediately to the
right, to the west, is significantly shorter than what you have
there. And the additional float, that's the 6'x14' float has to
be removed. And the 6'x38' has to be downsized to 6x20, in order
to be in compliance with the code.
MR. FABB: Understood.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Any other questions or comments?
(No response).
Hearing none, I make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MS. HULSE: Can I make one point? Is there any issue as to the
water and electric on the dock?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. The water and electric usually
should be included in the plan. Maybe it would be appropriate if
we go to permitting that we request a plan drawing that would
indicate the alterations that were we are considering and the
addition of the electric and water. Thank you.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Just give us new plans showing the new design. I
make a motion to table this application subject to submission of
new plans to reflect moving it into compliance with the code.
And to include the water and electric.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I second that motion.
TRUSTEE KING: We'll consider it then when the plans come to see
if it is in compliance.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'll second that. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Number four under Wetland Permits, DAVID
PAGE & BARBARA SHINN request a Wetland Permit to construct a
two-story single family dwelling with garage and decking
(1,150 sq.ft. contact footprint, 1,878 sq.ft. main level coverage
with 600 sq.ft. decking) with attendant sanitary system and 260
linear foot French drain; construct an approximately 12' high by
60' long retaining wall; construct a 288 sq.ft. shed; install a
gravel driveway; and to establish a 50' wide Non-
Disturbance Buffer along the landward edge of the wetlands.
Located: 1854 North Bayview Road, Southold.
This application is deemed to be consistent with the LWRP.
The CAC has resolved to support the application. The Trustees in
our monthly routine field inspection noted this is similar in
great respects to a prior submission where a permit had gone
through permit extensions and has expired. We did note in our
field inspection the existing hay bale and silt fence line would
need replacement as a condition of any permit granted. It was a
Board of Trustees 25 January 22, 2014
concern of siltation during construction.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this
application?
MR. PAGE: David Page, Mattituck, just here to answer any
questions, if there are any.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Mr. Page, on the description, on the verbal
description, maybe it's simply a scrivener's error,
typographical error, but it says the French drain construction
approximately 12'x60' long retaining wall. You are not proposing
a 12' high retaining wall, are you?
MR. PAGE: No, I think it's significantly lower. I think it might
actually be nine-and-a-half feet at one point.
MS. HULSE: Is it 12 inches high?
MR. PAGE: No.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It seems rather high.
MR. PAGE: This home is built on stilts, so in order to get up to
the landing area, I believe that is part of that plan. This plan
actually is the exact plan as what has been pre-submitted and
amended on a couple of occasions.
(Trustees perusing a file).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We didn't see it in the cross-section.
Okay, we have an elevation of 8.6. But that's not the
elevation of the wall.
TRUSTEE KING: It's 6.9 here. Unless it says the top elevation of
the wall is nine feet, I don't know.
(Trustees perusing a file).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We found the retaining wall but we are at a
loss to determine the top elevation of it from the line drawing
from your architect.
MR. PAGE: It's scaled though, right?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: No, we have a top down view that we are not
sure whether we are seeing the grade elevation or we are seeing
the elevation of the wall. It's not specific. Can you show us,
maybe?
MR. PAGE: As best I can. I'm not the architect, but. I worked
with Amanda on the telephone on scaling this because she asked
for a description. This is it here, right? What we are talking
about?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We are talking about right there, yes.
MR. PAGE: What we are trying to do is get up here in order to
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: So here is
MR. PAGE: This is on pilings. This is the driveway to get up
here.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: And this is the proposed 12' contour, and
the wall is matching with that. So
MR. PAGE: And I think the 12' is wrong. I think it's less than
that. It's around ten or something. You see the contour on
that.
Board of Trustees 26 January 22, 2014
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: How do we have 14 go to it and 16.
MR. PAGE: That goes above the wall.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: In other words the soils will slope down
back into the wall.
MR. PAGE: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: Will you have to bring in fill to raise the grade
that much? There is nothing on the description that mentions
fill being brought in.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Let's see if it's in the application. The
amount of fill should be clearly stated in the application.
That's a lot.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: How much of the wall would be showing from the
neighbor's property?
MR. PAGE: None of it.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes, 150 cubic yards. And the contour line
is the ten to 12 foot going to the wall. Any other questions?
Is there anyone else here who wishes to speak to this
application?
(No response).
Hearing no additional comments or questions or concerns, I would
make a motion to close the hearing in this matter.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll second that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Based on our review in the field that this
is essentially a resubmission of a prior expired permit, that we
have gotten the understanding of the fill necessary, and that
the retaining wall height of 12 feet is displayed on a plan by
virtue of the contours connecting to it, I would move to approve
the application as submitted.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Did you say hay bales, too?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Excuse me, thank you. With the stipulation
that the hay bale and silt fence line be built anew to protect
the project site during construction, and that the applicant be
particularly mindful of calling us ahead of time for the hay
bale inspection of this job, because of it being a sensitive
site and given the amount of construction and bringing of fill.
Thank you, Charles. So moved.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: Number five, Lagoon Association on behalf of
PATRICIA A. BRENNAN PERSONAL RESIDENCE TRUST, c/o PATRICIA &
DONALD BRENNAN requests a Wetland Permit for a Ten-Year
Maintenance Permit to maintenance dredge the entrance channel
from northerly bulkhead to center to a depth of 5 feet below
mean low water; and place +/-600 cubic yards of dredged material
Board of Trustees 27 January 22, 2014
on beach (N/W 375' of entry). Located: 1663 Bridge Lane,
Cutchogue.
This is found consistent by the LWRP coordinator, and he's
recommended to maintain the existing shoreline slope for the
dredge material to be deposited, to promote the use of the
shoreline area by shore birds and other shoreline-dependent
species. The Conservation Advisory Council recommended to
support the application as it was submitted.
Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of or against this
application?
MR. CARDINALE: Yes. Good evening. I'm Phil Cardinale,
Cardinale & Cardinale, Main Road, Jamesport. I'm here with Dr.
and Mrs. Josh Perry to object to this application on the basis
that the authorization of the owner is invalid for the
application. The lagoon association is the agent of the stated
owner Mr. and Mrs. Brennan, and the underlying land that is, the
dredging is sought on, is owned by Dr. and Mrs. Perry, and is
acknowledged for decades as owned by Dr. and Mrs. Perry by this
Board and by the town, including most recently a letter from the
Town Attorney. We have not joined in the application and we
object to it proceeding without via an agent who is
unauthorized, since the owner has not authorized them.
Dr. and Mrs. Perry are here. They are way too familiar with
the facts and circumstances underlying this matter and I have
become way too familiar over the last two years. Not only do we
own this area that is being sought to be dredged, but the
permission, our permission was sought and given on the last
permit, before it was submitted. There was no such request nor
such permission given in this one, for reasons that I could
indicate but are really, well, they are not particularly
surprising, because there is a dispute as to when this dredging
occurs, if we were to permit it, that the existing bulkhead is
going to, as it has begun to do, fall into the water. So we are
discussing with them methods of safeguarding the bulkhead. But
we are not consenting. We are the owners. We can establish
ownership. I believe the Town attorney, Lori Hulse, will confirm
that the town acknowledges us as the owners. We pay taxes on
this property and we feel the hearing should be adjourned in
order for you to ascertain from the Town attorney the history of
this and the position of the town in regard to this.
And if there are any questions on specifics, Dr. and Mrs.
Perry are very happy to speak. And I would like to answer any
questions that I can.
TRUSTEE KING: Thank you. There is a letter here, January 9th,
we'll make sure it's in the record. It's in the file. Is there
anyone else here to speak on this application?
Yes, sir?
MR. FLOTTERON: I'm Bill Flotteron, President of the Lagoon
Board of Trustees 28 January 22, 2014
Association. Also a resident on the lagoon. I'm here to speak
on behalf of the Lagoon Association, the body that represents 13
of the 14 families on the lagoon at Nassau Point. Since 1933 the
Lagoon Association members have had an easement to dredge this
inlet. I have a copy of a check from 1933 showing the original
dredge payment by one of the current owners who have been there
since 1933. We are requesting a permit to dredge the northern
portion of the inlet, 15 feet to the center, which is owned by
Pat Brennan, who will dredge five feet below mean low water and
deposit the sand on the Brennan property.
Mr. Perry claims that he owns the lagoon bottom or lagoon
entrance and therefore feels he can put a stop to the 81 year
relationship between the Lagoon Association and the Town of
Southold. Contrary to Mr. Perry's claims, the tax maps do not
determine ownership of lagoon bottom. Ownership is determined by
deeds filed in Suffolk County, on tax map. I would like to
present a deed from 1947 from the Hammer family, which formerly
owned the Burrell-Perry property, to the Fyfe family, which is
currently the Brennan property. Hammer deeded Fyfe a portion of
the lagoon bottom from the midpoint at the entrance and
surrounding his property and the deed was filed 25 years before
Burrell or Perry owned the property. You are free to pull a copy
from the Suffolk County records.
The most important reason I'm here, actually, is there are
several reasons why dredging the bottom of the lagoon should be
supported by this Board, by the town and by the community. This
is one of the few private lagoons out there. We are using
private funds to do it. If the lagoon is not reopened through
dredging it will become an environmental disaster. The salt
marsh is a fragile environment and needs oxygen-rich water and
tidal flow to maintain them. The loss of marine life would be
devastating to the north fork. The lagoon would go from being a
pristine marsh to a stinking cesspool as marine life is trapped
inside and dies. It would take years to regenerate and recover
from this damage. Dredging keeps the proper flow and flush of
the lagoon, which is crucial to preserve the fish and wildlife
balance which has existed since 1933. The lagoon is a springtime
spawning ground for multiple species of marine life. There are
only two salt marshes on Nassau Point on the west side. The
lagoon and Wunneweta Pond. The closure of this lagoon would
eliminate 50% of the salt marsh access for fish and wildlife
needed to reproduce. Residents as well as non-residents have
been using the lagoon for boating, kayaking power boating and
swimming for years. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Mr. Flotteron, I have a question. As
Chairman of the Trustees I'm responsible for doing some of the
file review in preparing for the meeting and I noted that we had
a fairly old survey from VanTuyl that went back to the early
Board of Trustees 29 January 22, 2014
'90's in the file. And I also noted that the identification of
the Suffolk County tax map, the Suffolk County tax map number
for which you are proposing to dredge is not the same Suffolk
County tax map designation for the bottom of the entrance to
Wunneweta Pond. I'm wondering if you are prepared to discuss the
discrepancy between what you are proposing to do and what the
tax map series has, particularly as the application as
submitted, which seems to be only an application that dealt with
the dredge spoil area because that is the Suffolk County tax map
number of the Brennan personal residence entrusted to Donald and
Patricia Brennan is in fact where the dredge spoil is proposed,
but the tax map number is different from the Wunneweta Pond
bottom. And, you know, what are your thoughts with respect to
maybe a more recent survey that would describe, which would be
drawn by a licensed surveyor, would show the meets and bounds of
both your property and then of course it would tend to describe
the property at the bottom of the lagoon by virtue of the
activities are actually proposed on lands for which you have
ownership.
MR. FLOTTERON: For starters, you mentioned the tax map.
Unfortunately I can't undo what the tax map states, but a real
estate attorney, the courts, would find that a filed deed would
take precedence over the tax maps in the County of Suffolk, and
I have that here with me today, which I'll show to you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Do you have copies to submit?
MR. FLOTTERON: This is for you. In addition, I also have the
check that I mentioned, which is for historic purposes as well.
There was also a discussion which I can share this as well,
about damage and dock and so on. We have not gone past the
middle for years because of complaints, harassment, et cetera.
This bears out that there is actually real estate or land, sand
in front of it. You can see the depths and where the cuts are.
The dredging takes place and has taken place for 20 years on the
Brennan property. Whether backhoe or if we used hydraulic.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Taken place on or from?
MR. FLOTTERON: From the property, into the lagoon, or from a
dredge, and the spoils in all cases have been left on the
Brennan property. Never on the Burrell property, for the past 20
years. Before that, I can't speak. I had filed actually the
permit back in 1992.
From the standpoint of your question of ownership, I
contend what I'm handing you there, that was done off the
VanTuyl records, in 1947, half of that entrance to the lagoon
was sold to the current owners, which is now Brennan.
I'm not sure where or why the tax map does not match the
county records, but it doesn't. And I don't want to argue that.
I'm looking to get a permit to continue to dredge to keep this
lagoon open so it doesn't smell and stink and trap and have all
Board of Trustees 30 January 22, 2014
animals and deer and everything else all about. I also don't see
any permits from the Burrell family as well to this. They haven't
in the 20 years that I have been there. And we are looking to
keep the channel open. We believe that we have ownership to the
midpoint, we are staying off their property, and that's where we
stand.
TRUSTEE KING: Do you have a current DEC dredge permit now?
MR. FLOTTERON: Yes. It was in the file.
TRUSTEE KING: I didn't see it. (Perusing).
MR. FLOTTERON: The DEC has supported the dredging of the entire
lagoon, not just half the entrance. And excuse me, I misstated,
they are supporting the entire entrance, the full 30 feet.
I also stand here before you confused why somebody would
not want to keep the lagoon open.
TRUSTEE KING: You would not happen to have a copy of the plans
from the DEC, would you?
MR. FLOTTERON: Yes, I do. I handed them to John. They are
stamped also. Right here.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: This is the approved DEC plan?
MR. FLOTTERON: Yes. They are stamped on the bottom right-hand
corner. If not, I can get you another copy.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Is there a dredge window?
MR. FLOTTERON: At this point there is. Our hope is to get
initially the permission to dredge. From there, the ten-year
permit, and from there if we can get an extension, that would be
wonderful.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Is there a DEC limiting window, if granted,
would have to conduct operations by a certain time because fish
and wildlife concerns, typically they close dredge windows at
this time of year to protect winter flounder spawning and that
sort of thing.
MR. FLOTTERON: Historically we had a dredge permit through April
30th. I can't answer for you what it is currently.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The project plan is not a licensed surrey.
And we don't have a current survey. So if, to provide a licensed
survey that is a recent survey as a requirement of an
application process for the wetlands code, and accordingly, with
the additional information you provided, a licensed land survey,
a current one, of the Brennan property, with an overlay of the
hydrographic survey so that the Board could see the Brennan
property as a current survey would show in relation to the
hydrographic data, and that along with other documents submitted
might provide clarification to the Board with respect to the
operations that you propose.
MR. FLOTTERON: Are you questioning or asking that
TRUSTEE KING: I found what you gave me, thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'm not questioning. I'm stating the fact
that the Board needs accurate information upon which to make
Board of Trustees 31 January 22, 2014
decisions, and the town wetland ordinance is specific in
requiring a recent licensed survey of the property for the
proposed activity as an application requirement. It's simply
it's a code requirement.
MR. FLOTTERON: There is a copy of the plans that were delivered
to you in the first week of January.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes, but a plan does not constitute a
licensed land survey. A licensed land survey is drawn by an
individual who is licensed by the State of New York as a
licensed land surveyor and they usually, you know, describe the
survey as to the ownership, possibly title insurance, and such
matters.
I think under the circumstances, the project plan, which is
a hydrographic survey which is by a licensed design
professional, while it may accurately comport the depth in the
vicinity of your proposed activity, it exists in isolation where
that is in relation to a licensed land survey, either done as an
overlay or done in the same scale so that the Board can make a
determination based on the meets and bounds from the licensed
survey against what you have, and then if it clearly shows that
the activity you are proposing is within the bounds of the
Brennan property, I think that would be self-evident from the
licensed land survey that you could deliver to the Board.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: When was the last time it was dredged?
MR. FLOTTERON: Last year. March-April. It's been dredged almost
every year for the past 20 years. And winter basically
northwesterlies fill it in and the natural sand that builds up
on the inside.
TRUSTEE KING: I notice the DEC puts some language in their
permit also.
MR. FLOTTERON: We are fine with that language.
TRUSTEE KING: You are responsible for any other permits,
approvals, easements or rights of way. This permit doesn't
authorize you to go ahead and do the work.
MR. FLOTTERON: We are having a discussion this evening of the
ownership of the bottom, which is my frustration with this whole
process.
MS. HULSE: But it's necessary
MR. FLOTTERON: I'm not questioning it's occurring, I'm
questioning the DEC, I hope, in their wisdom saw past this and
said in their wisdom we see the need for the action and if there
is a need of ownership, that should be kept outside this area.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Beside your worry of ownership, what is your
primary reason for not wanting them to dredge, if I may ask.
MR. CARDINALE: I indicated earlier, I'll mention one or two
things, then I'll let Dr. Perry speak. A primary reason, the
dredge that was last done, then maintained for ten years, was
with our permission and with the Lagoon Association as our
Board of Trustees 32 January 22, 2014
agent. We would like this to be dredged. The problem is that
even the maintenance dredging has caused damage to our bulkhead,
and further dredging will cause more. And we are asking, we are
willing to participate in the dredge. We are willing to
participate in the bulkhead repair, but we want to be sure if
the dredging occurs, it does not result in the bulkhead being at
the bottom of the inlet.
I believe that, from everything I've known about this over
two years listening to this, listening to Dr. Perry, this is not
a situation in which we are disputing who owns the bottom land
and the area that is to dredged. And if you do get a survey, I
think you'll find that that deed does not reflect the land that
is sought to be dredged. The deed is a deed. We have deeds, too.
But the deed that we have is to the land they are seeking to
dredge. And that deed is not it. So I think a survey is a
wonderful idea and we support it because that will clarify that
issue.
The DEC I'll let Dr. Perry speak to that we spoke
with the DEC and asked them about the permit they issued and
maybe you can begin with that, what they indicated.
DR. PERRY: First, as you said, they did indeed issue a permit,
and on the cover letter to the Lagoon Association, they clearly
say that we wish to emphasize items A, C and D. Item D notifies
all recipients of DEC permits that the issuance of this permit
is not a tacit approval of any represented rights or interest in
real property. Now, when I called Roger Evans last week and said
to him how could you possibly issue this without ownership
rights, his response was a basic we don't want to get involved
with the legal ramifications. We approved the project from an
environment standpoint. We see nothing wrong with the dredge
from an environmental standpoint. You guys have to fight it out
as to ownership. That was his response. And I let it go at that.
And I think it's clear from his cover letter that he's under the
impression that you better make damn sure you have ownership
before you start to do the dredge. That is number one.
TRUSTEE KING: That's why I mentioned that. It's in the file.
DR. PERRY: Right. And that was his point. Basically he said we
don't want to be involved in your legal activities. We'll issue
the permit. That doesn't give you the right to proceed. That's
number one.
Number two, if I could ask, the deed that was submitted
from Hammer to Fyfe, is that liber 2822, page 303?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: 2822, page 303.
DR. PERRY: Here is the same deed. Two copies. Here is the map,
the survey, that goes with this deed. The area in question of
what is to be dredged is only the channel between the two
bulkheads. That is what is asking permission by this permit to
be dredged. Nothing interior of that lagoon. If one reads what
Board of Trustees 33 January 22, 2014
1 have highlighted in green, I think it's worth it to take a
minute and let's look at it. And it says that there is four
courses to go through the lagoon, that supposedly Hammer sold to
Fyfe in 1947. Whether this occurred, I don't know. Whether it
was sold back to Hammer at some point, I don't know. Whether it
was sold by Fyfe to somebody else other than Hammer, I don't
know. And no one else that I'm aware of has any other deeds. But
let's assume for a second that this deed is accurate, okay,
assume this is correct. If you start at lot 112, if you look at
112 and you start, it says it goes four courses through the
lagoon. It goes south 68 degrees, 40 minutes, 100 feet. That is
the first leg of the four courses, correct?
Then it goes 38 degrees, 30 minutes, 230 feet. That's the second
course. Then it goes, course three, south 48 degrees, 40
minutes, 425 feet. This is the key leg of the survey. The 425
feet stops at the entrance to the piece of property that is in
question. Okay? It does not proceed to the midpoint of the
channel, as Mr. Flotteron claims. It stops at from within the
lagoon coming out is where that stops. Then the last piece is,
it takes a 90 degree turn, 15 feet to the bulkhead, and then it
follows the shoreline back to the beginning, okay?
So his deed, which he presents as definitive proof of ownership
by granted is false, even by his own standards. He obviously has
not done the research and has not put the time in to know that
what he is saying is not accurate. It's clearly false, okay?
The final thing is if you look at Brennan's deed, which is
part, I have a couple copies for you as well, Brennan submitted
four deeds. The first one and three revisions. This is the last
of the revisions of his deed, and the other three copies with
the letter that I sent to Mr. Bredemeyer back on January 9th. If
you read, and on the back of the last page is a current survey
from 1994, which is the most recent survey I could find of
Brennan. And if you read number 12, which is highlighted in
green, it says that it goes south 27 degrees, 32 minutes, ten
seconds; 359 feet to the northwesterly side of the dredge canal.
Not to the middle of the canal. To the northwesterly side of the
canal. Then it proceeds another 65 feet until it meets the high
water mark of Peconic Bay. So even by their fourth revision,
they still have not shown ownership of the particular piece of
property in question.
Finally, there is a long history with this Board, with the
assessor's office, with the Town attorney, of ownership. This
has been going to for numerous years. The property was, they
tried to remove the property from my ownership via Andros Patent
a couple of years ago and we fought that and the town at that
time, in 2011, conceded that we had ownership of the bottom of
the lagoon.
Personally, I'm quite tired of being here defending my
Board of Trustees 34 January 22, 2014
rights, my property rights. I pay taxes on this. I maintain it.
And I'm constantly being challenged with this type of argument
which has no basis in fact. And I think that, I'm hoping, that
this particular meeting will trigger something that these
applications will just not be accepted and will be rejected upon
submission, so we don't have to waste your time and my time and
my attorney's time arguing about the same thing for the last 40
years. Which is if you look at my title policy and my
predecessor's title policy, it clearly shows ownership of the
bottom of the lagoon, from 1974 to the present. So I'm prepared
to answer any other questions or any questions that anybody has.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, I would like to move this along. I
think that the presentation has been fairly lengthy but fairly
detailed and I think the Board can appreciate that. Are there
any additional comments?
MR. FLOTTERON: Just one. The 1947 deed takes precedence over any
further ownership. There was no sale, there could never have
been a sale. If Fyfe had purchased the land up to the midpoint
of the lagoon. The deed he's referring to, Brennan's property,
most surveyors have not been surveying for the last 30 years.
The underground areas, not just our lagoon, but all lagoons in
Southold. You have a land survey. You don't have anything
dealing with the 1947 ownership. It's, as far as they would
DR. PERRY: There is no basis in fact to what is being said.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Address your comments to the chair, one at a
time.
Finish up, please, sir.
MR. FLOTTERON: All I'm stating is that the 1947 deed, half the
lagoon was sold. It's in the Fyfe chain of ownership, which is
now the Brennan chain of ownership. That's why I presented to
you today a copy of the 1947 deed.
DR. PERRY: And once again, by his own deed, that he's
presenting, clearly does not show ownership of the channel. That
is the point. It only shows ownership up until the exit point
from the lagoon to the bay. So you can argue all you want. The
fact of the matter is the meets and bounds of the survey done in
1947, which go with that deed, don't support your position. End
of story. You can try to persuade, that is not true.
MR. CORAZZINI: If I can make one comment. Rich Corazzini. I also
live in the Lagoon Association. One question I have, I didn't
quite get the answer. You do want to dredge
MS. HULSE: Sir, the comments have to be addressed to the Chair.
MR. CORAZZINI: They don't want us to dredge but they do want us
to dredge? I didn't get that part of it. They are for the
dredging, but with their permission?
MS. HULSE: Mr. Perry, would you consent to any dredging on any
portion of the mouth of the lagoon?
DR. PERRY: This is not about dredging, this is about
Board of Trustees 35 January 22, 2014
MS. HULSE: I'm asking you the question, would you consent
under certain circumstances to any dredging?
DR. PERRY: The answer to the question is too multi-layered. It's
not a yes or no answer. The point of fact is there is a
presentation today in front of this Board challenging my
ownership. I'm here today to defend the ownership of my
property, okay? As have I been for the last five years. That's
what this is about. Our family has always been in favor of
dredging. Not at the expense and the damages to my property that
are now resulting because of a failing bulkhead and a dredge
that every time they dredge, I get washout and I have tremendous
craters on my side of the channel, which to me pose a hazard to
the people who are potentially walking the beach. That's my
liability and I don't want to personally assume that liability.
Do I want this to fill in, absolutely not. It's in nobody's
interest for this to fill in. But by the same token, the Lagoon
Association's position has been your bulkhead, you pay for it.
My position has been, as you well know, that everybody benefits
from that bulkhead being there. And back in 1985, when that
bulkhead was built, everybody on the lagoon contributed to the
cost of that bulkhead except for Mr. Sturdy, who is the only
person that is aware of the detailed history, because everybody
else has come later on. Okay, and he was actually sued by the
lagoon association for not contributing to the cost of the
bulkhead. So there has been a precedence of recognizing that
that bulkhead is valuable and is required to keep the channel
open. Unfortunately, my opponents have taken the position that
it's your problem, you pay for it. And therein lies the rub of
the answer to your question, which is not a yes no answer.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'll take maybe one more comment, unless
there is another individual who is here or a Board member wants
to speak. I'm going to suggest that Trustee King close the
hearing and conduct action in this matter. Anyone else?
MR. FLOTTERON: Mr. Sturdy actually won in supreme court, which
was not mentioned, against the Lagoon Association. The hole that he
is referring to, and I have a picture. You have a picture of a
survey of what has been dredged since then. And the surveyor
actually came to us and asked how can you only dredge to the
middle. We have not dredged his side for years. We had Hurricane
Sandy and Hurricane Irene and an eight-foot surge, and 90% of
the bulkhead for two miles wiped out on the east side. Numerous
buildings on the west side including the point and a couple of
houses in, buildings fall. This is normal damage. He's talking
about a fist-sized hole. I actually have a picture of it.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I don't think this is material to the matter
at hand. I'm going to leave with former president King to move
on the matter. I don't think this is appropriate.
MR. FLOTTERON: Thank you.
Board of Trustees 36 January 22, 2014
TRUSTEE KING: I take it there is no way you folks can sit down
and work out something?
DR. PERRY: I have only been trying for the last six or seven
years, since I paid for the last repair. It doesn't appear the
answer is yes.
MR. CORAZZINI: I guess as residents we don't understand why we
maintain our properties and he doesn't maintain his. Nobody went
and asked him
MS. HULSE: Before the Trustees is really simply the issue of can
there be a dredging that takes place. That's it. That's what
they are considering. If there is, that's great, then the Board
will consider it. If not
MR. CARDINALE: One final comment. To make life simple, because I
sat on a town board for a long time and I know it's helpful to
make it simple. From a legal perspective, we are contending
that you ask for, when the agent Lagoon Association to serve on
behalf of the owner of the land in question. We maintain if you
get a survey or you insist the applicant get a survey, you will
find they don't own the land in question and that would resolve
this matter. And that would be it. But I thank you for your
time.
TRUSTEE KING: No other comments?
(No response).
I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
(Off the record).
TRUSTEE KING: I'll rescind that motion.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: You are rescinding the motion. We'll
rescind the motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: I guess that's the general feeling of the Board,
we would like to see a current survey of this property, and
we'll table this until we receive one.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second. You are tabling it.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Subject to a survey by a licensed surveyor
with an overlay or a meeting up with the hydrographic survey so
the hydrographic detailing is shown as an overlay to that or as
a continuation to that survey.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll second that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number six, Lehnert Construction on behalf of
NASSAU POINT PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION requests a Wetland
Permit for the as-built 17'6" vinyl bulkhead connected to
adjacent properties; and for the as-built 4' wide x 6' long
beach access stairs. Located: End of Bayview Road off Nassau
Point Road, Cutchogue.
Board of Trustees 37 January 22, 2014
The LWRP coordinator found this to be inconsistent. The
inconsistency lies in the fact it was constructed without a
wetland permit. The Conservation Advisory Council voted to
support this application on December 4th. The Trustees in their
site visitation found this to be straightforward. No problems.
Is there anyone here to speak to this application?
MR. LEHNERT: Rob Lehnert, Lehnert Construction on behalf of the
Nassau Point Property Owners Association. I just have two
letters I received late this afternoon in support of this from
adjoining property owners.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Duly noted. Is there anyone else here to speak
to this application?
MR. LEHNERT: It's a pretty straightforward application. It's
just a bulkhead connecting two existing bulkheads due to
Superstorm Sandy damage.
MR. WACKER: Tom Wacker. My family has owned the property next to
it for 45 years or so. Our property is rather low lying and it
routinely is a throughway, routinely floods our property. And
also during, I just wanted to speak to the environment impact of
this bulkhead. In heavy rains, storm water runs, floods through
there and it serves to basically drain Nassau Point Road, which
is not in especially good thing. If you look at the throughway a
quarter mile to the south of that, the old Menhaden throughway,
there is in fact a drain culvert. I have a picture of that I
want to hand you. And so it seems to me this serves three good
purposes. It maintains public access, it shuts off the storm
water runoff and it stops flooding my property. We don't use any
fertilizers on our property but future owners may. You know,
with the tides crushing onto our property and rushing out, it's
not entirety a good thing for the bay. That's my thoughts.
TRUSTEE KING: We need to see something on the survey that shows
where it is. If I remember right, there is another return here.
Just a point of clarification, this does not join two bulkheads.
It's landward. It looks like it's up on the end of a return. Am
I right or am I wrong?
MR. LEHNERT: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: Because by code no new bulkheads are allowed. So
in my mind, this is at the landward end of a return. So we
should see survey with that indicated on it. Where the actual
location of that is, is more of a retaining wall than it is a
bulkhead. Just to clear things up a little bit.
MR. MONAGHAN: Good evening, my name is Kenneth Monaghan, I
reside at and own 2715 Nassau Point Road for the last 32 years.
I'm here to speak on behalf of some of the neighbors who are
very upset about what is going on. We have provided a letter to
each one of the Trustees, which I apologize if you have gotten
late, but there is a copy with pictures in there for you in
color. And there is nothing straightforward about this. We are
Board of Trustees 38 January 22, 2014
here because of a mistake or error on the part Nassau Point
Property Owners Association, and we object to the construction
of the bulkhead and we would like to see it removed. We are
sympathetic with the Wacker's issue regarding flooding but this
is detrimental to the enjoying of our property, which we have
enjoyed for a number of years.
I should mention the letter is signed by three of the
property owners; two, in addition to myself, who were the ones
that were notified about the meeting. That includes the
Goldmans, Shannon and Deb, who are with us this evening, and the
Carsons, who were not able to be here this evening.
I should mention when Sandy hit in 2012, like everyone, we
were faced with damage to our property. There was however no
damage at all done to this right-of-way. It has been in its natural
condition for many, many years. As I said, I have
been there over 30. There was no existing bulkheads. The
right-of-way had natural soft-scaping with pebbles and sea grass
and sand that absorbed and dissipated the force of the storm.
Yes, there was water that covered it at one point, you can see
that in the pictures. And when the water receded there was lots
of flotsam and debris that was left behind. However there was
no disturbance of the right-of-way itself. There was no
scouring. And since there was no bulkhead there, there was no
structure to replace or repair. Shortly after the cleanup from
Sandy, we were shocked to discover that a bulkhead had been
built across the right-of-way. We subsequently learned that the
Wackers had contacted the Nassau Point Property Owners
Association, which owns the right-of-way and I should mention we
are all, each of the neighbors are active in supporting and
dues-paying members of that organization. And they were given
the verbal authority to extend the bulkhead. Now, the reason
they were given verbal authority is that the individual who was
contacted, who is an executive member of the board of the
property owners association was of the belief that there was
already a bulkhead there. He thought what the Wackers were doing
was offering to replace a pre-existing structure. Not put a new
one in place. So here you had a mistake and the Wackers didn't,
or their representatives, didn't disabuse them of that notion.
And that is what has happened.
Now, as the neighbors who use that right-of-way, we were
stunned. None of us had been informed. No notice was given. No
calls were made by the neighbors, either before or frankly even
subsequent to this, which is from our perspective just
absolutely appalling; nor by the property owners association
itself. It was only when we investigated at the end of the
summer with the assistance of your office that we discovered
that a work permit the work had proceeded without a
permit. In fact the permit that the Wackers had received for the
Board of Trustees 39 January 22, 2014
work on their property only entitled them to return the
property, and I'm using the quotation from the permit, "to
pre-storm condition." Rather than doing anything else. So the
work that was done across the right-of-way itself was not any
part of the permit, which is why now the Nassau Point Property
Owners Association have had to submit a subsequent request.
If the Wackers and the property owners association had
sought a permit at that time, we would have been notified and
given an opportunity to voice our objections before any work had
started. In fact, the president, in a phone call I've had with
him over the last several months, of the property owners
association, had told us that they certainly would have reached
out to us and asked our views before building a bulkhead if he
had known that one didn't exist. And if we objected, they would
not have proceeded. Because there was no damage that was done to
that property.
I might mention as well that it's the neighbors that have
maintained that property, at least for the 31 years I been
there. Not the property owners association. I don't begrudge
them that. We have gotten full and fair use of it, and it has
been very enjoyable to use, and the property owners association
doesn't have two nickels to rub together. But the property has
been maintained by us, whether it's mowing the lawn or clearing
up all the debris that was left in the storm's wake.
Now, from our perspective, the problem is a bulkhead is now
in place and we want it removed and the right-of-way returned to
its previous condition. And as I mentioned, the property owners
association doesn't have the money to spend for it, so we
actually recently offered to them to provide funding to help
take care of the removal of the bulkhead. It's not a large
expense. Something would have to be done on a return on the
Wacker's property. They obviously didn't incur the expense of
building a 24' right-of-way return, which is what is on the
other side, the Palmieri side, as a result of just bridging the
gap between the two bulkheads.
Now, allowing residents to bypass the permitting process
and build what they please, with no consideration to the rights
and views of their neighbors, and then allowing them to ask for
forgiveness once caught, is a practice that has to be stopped.
Sandy is not the first storm that hit this beach. I at
least observed three other storms of major proportion in the
time period I have been there and in each one of those storms
there has never been significant damage done. There is debris
left behind but the thought there has been scouring or the
right-of-way in some way had been damaged is inaccurate. It's
maintained itself very well. And that has not been an issue.
Now the bulkhead, if it's not removed, will have to be
maintained. And we all know what happens to bulkheads
Board of Trustees 40 January 22, 2014
eventually. And the bulkhead is at a height where stairs need
to be used. In order to placate or compromise, the property
owners association also offered to put in a ramp. And we know
those will have to be eventually replaced on a periodic basis as
well. We have talked to different people about what the
appropriate course of action would be. I talked to some people
I know who are dock builders. They told us the cost, as I said,
of removing it, is small.
So we implore you at this point to deny the permit and
mandate that the bulkhead be removed. This is not only reducing
our enjoyment of property that we have long enjoyed, it is
destroying a natural right-of-way which existed before. It
doesn't solve necessarily the problems the Wackers have. If you
actually look at the video that was taken during the storm, the
problem they have is they are in a low lying area that is right
on the bulkhead line. And if the tide had been even slightly
higher or the winds a bit more fierce, the house would have been
wiped away. So I'm sympathetic to their plight, but that's a
problem of placement of the house rather than the right-of-way
itself. If the bulkhead stays in place, we are effectively as
neighbors, because we have a poor property owners association,
are being taxed. We have an ongoing financial obligation. We'll
have to replace the bulkhead eventually when it breaks, and it
will; we are going to have to replace the stairs when they
periodically disappear, which they will; and if a ramp is to be
built as well, we will be the ones responsible for its
replacement. And from our perspective, that is quite
disturbing, not only financially, but we will be assuming a
financial obligation for something that we have vehemently
opposed from the getgo.
As I said again, this all occurred because of error on the
part of the property owners association. Mistakes exist and
happen. We are all active members of the board. Sometimes
things happen that you wish didn't and you have to go back and
rectify it. That's what we are asking for at this point. We are
going to ask not only for you to deny the permit but for the
property owners association to rectify the situation. And we are
willing to assume some of the financial obligation of fixing the
issue by putting forward money to help them remove the bulkhead.
Thank you.
Before I forget, I should complement you on your staff as
well, since I have been in constant conversation with since late
August, early September, and they have been very professional
and helpful.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Just a quick question. Had you, amongst
those of you who are so vehemently opposed to this structure,
have you considered or discussed any alternatives that might
better meet what you all think is appropriate? Because
Board of Trustees 41 January 22, 2014
obviously we have issues with increasing frequency of strength
of storms and such, are there other issues that you feel should
be addressed with respect to the types of access, whether it be
handicap access steps or other issues where there might be a
commonality where the association members can go back and work
on something cooperatively?
MR. MONAGHAN: Look, the association and Rob is not only here
to represent the association, Rob is also a member of the
executive board, and he is in charge of right-of-ways for the
board. And he can speak probably not only as a board member but
as a resident very clearly about the problem the board has in
terms of finances. His family residence abuts another
right-of-way, and they have had to replace
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: That's not really what we are about. Okay,
thank you.
MR. MONAGHAN: If the answer is what else could be done, if a
culvert needs to be put there in order to take care of the
runoff, are we willing to put up some funding to take care of
that? Sure. The runoff situation is not solved necessarily by
having a bulkhead there at the end of the property.
In regards to handicap access, there is handicap access on
the beach right now for the beach at the beginning of the
causeway. And there is ramps there for that purpose. The problem
we have is not only is the appearance of the bulkhead and one
of my neighbors has referred to it looking like a marina at the
moment but the problem as well is access. Some of us have
small children. My children are grown up by now. I have been
there a long time. I'm hoping to spend time there with
grandchildren eventually. The bulkhead is over five feet high.
All this period of time we have been able to move up and down
the bulkhead, without a bulkhead there, and take boats in and
out of the water. People swim. That has really now been
seriously compromised because of what has been done.
MR. WACKER: May I address some of these accusations?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I think at this point, the issues have been
addressed are very clear.
MR. WACKER: There are many inaccuracies, though.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, if you make your comments brief, we'll
entertain them.
MR. WACKER: Sure. Well, first off, I very much resent the
suggestion that we in any way hoodwinked the property owners
association, and I think Rob can attest that they were well
aware of the condition of the right-of-way before it was
suggested that we bulkhead it. And secondly, it's about the only
two spots on the entire east side of Nassau Point that are not
bulkheaded. And, um, thirdly, the only thing that way it
inhibits his use of the beach is in bringing boats down there,
which actually is not permitted under the Nassau Point Property
Board of Trustees 42 January 22, 2014
Owners charter; bringing in a boat launch. It is not supposed to
be used as a boat launch. That's my points.
MR. MONAGHAN: If I may quickly comment. I've never used the
ramp, that situation, as a boat launch. Ever. But walking down
there with a kayak or sunfish is another point. And as to the
point as to whether or not the board knew of the condition, I
can tell you categorically, that the president of the board told
me he was unaware that there was not a bulkhead there. Which is
the only reason he approved it.
(Inaudible verbal interaction between opposing parties).
MR. MONAGHAN: And our key point is this is only up for approval
because it's in place. And it's only in place because they
didn't go through the process. And if they had gone through the
process it would never have been approved.
MR. LEHNERT: As you guys know, the east side of Nassau Point, I
mean most of the bulkheads got wiped out in Sandy. I have been
here, lots of other homeowners have been here. Bulkheads
repairs, bulkhead replacements. Some new work that has gone
above and beyond what was originally there for years and years.
This would be the last lot on Nassau Point that is not armored
for a storm. As the owner of the property, the property owners
association, their feeling is they need protect their property
from the next storm. They are the last one that doesn't have
anything. The next storm will just come and scour out that
right-of-way, scour out that access road. And you are talking
20, 30 feet back after the next storm when the wave action comes
in there. We are doing nothing that anyone else along the east
side of the point has not done to protect their property.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Thank you.
MR. MONAGHAN: If I may say something in closing. As I said, I
have been over there, I have been across the street over 31
years. This is not the first storm, there has never been
scouring when I have been there that has been significant. This
is not the cause of any damage. The property the way it is set,
if you look at the pictures that we provided, and if you want
more pictures, we can provide them. It absorbed the force of the
storm. That's what it is it supposed to do. The pebbles are
there and the grasses are there, dissipated the force of the
storm, and the right-of-way was in fine condition. All it needed
to do was to be cleaned up. No one had to put any fill in or
anything else.
TRUSTEE KING: Mr. Lehnert, you represent the Nassau Property
Owners Association?
MR. LEHNERT: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: And you are in favor of this?
MR. LEHNERT: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: I would rather call this a retaining wall. Because
the definition of a bulkhead, a bulkhead separates the water
Board of Trustees 43 January 22, 2014
from the land. A retaining wall prevents erosion. If I remember
right, you put a return there on both sides and that bulkhead
was built across the landward end of those two returns. It's not
joining two bulkheads on the face.
MR. LEHNERT: Right.
MR. WACKER: My bulkhead runs on a diagonal up there. It's
difficult to join it right at the front.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: There is a prohibition against joining at
the front.
TRUSTEE KING: There is a prohibition in the code against new
bulkheads. Get it?
MR. WACKER: Okay.
MS. HULSE: The code doesn't allow for new bulkheads. So if this
is truly a bulkhead, the Board is obligated to deny it. So if it
doesn't function as a bulkhead and doesn't meet the definition
of a bulkhead in the code, then I would call it more of a
retaining wall.
TRUSTEE KING: It's technically a retaining wall. A retaining
wall stops erosion, usually in a beach area. It's usually
landward of a bulkhead.
MR. LEHNERT: Yes. Correct.
MS. HULSE: The Board needs to find there is substantial erosion
if they are going to construct a bulkhead or reconstruct a
bulkhead. But not for a retaining wall.
MR. MONAGHAN: But there is no erosion here in advance. The only
place where there is any erosion is on the Wacker property.
There was no erosion, there was no damage done to the
right-of-way.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All right, I'll move that we close this
hearing. And are there any other questions or concerns from the
Board?
(No response).
I think we heard the various discussion and interest
concerns from all parties.
(No response).
Hearing no additional questions or concerns, I would make a
motion to close the hearing in this matter.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll second that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
I would make a motion to approve this application as submitted,
noting that the Board, in conducting its monthly field
inspection and reviewing the project application, has deemed
this structure is in fact a retaining wall. It is not by
definition a bulkhead under the terms of the town wetland code;
and whereas the Nassau Point Property Owners Association is the
legal owner of the property and is entitled to make a request of
a permit before this Board, I think it's appropriate that we
Board of Trustees 44 January 22, 2014
move forward and I move to approve this application accordingly.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second that.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: I have to recuse myself. I didn't see this.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion made and seconded. Vote of the
Board?
(Trustee Bredemeyer, aye. Trustee Domino, aye. Trustee King,
aye. Trustee Sanders, abstained).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Let the record note that Trustee Sanders was
unable to make that inspection, so the vote is three ayes and
one abstention.
MR. LEHNERT: Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The next application, number seven under
Wetland Permits, Geoffrey Freeman, Architect on behalf of
CHARLOTTE RAIBLE & WAYNE WEISS requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a 2-car garage addition connecting the two existing
dwellings; raising portions of the roof to enlarge loft area;
construct an 18'x35' addition to dwelling on southerly side;
re-construct and expand existing second-story deck; construct an
approximate 2,274 sq.ft. in-ground pool with paver patio with
fire pit area; install 4' high pool fencing; the installation of
drywells and a pool backwash drywell; and a line of staked hay
bales with silt fencing to be installed prior to and during
construction. Located: 625 East Side Avenue, Mattituck.
REVISED PROJECT DESCRIPTION AS OF JANUARY 6,2014:
To construct a 2-car garage addition connecting the two existing
dwellings in conjunction with a 35'x11' upper addition (1
floors total 1,050 sq.ft.) in the area between the existing
structures; raising portions of the existing roof to enlarge
loft area; adding a 6'x12'deck off of loft; construct an 23'x22'
addition (2 floors total 1,040 sq.ft.) to dwelling on southerly
side; re-construct and expand existing second-story +1-535 sq.ft.
deck; construct an approximate 18,x35' in-ground pool with paver
patio with fire pit area for a total of 2,274 sq.ft.; install 4'
high pool fencing; the installation of drywells and a pool
backwash drywell; and a line of staked hay bales with silt
fencing to be installed prior to and during construction;
install an 8' long retaining wall on southerly side of dwelling
and a 35' long retaining wall on east side of dwelling;
establish a 25' wide Non-Disturbance Buffer along the landward
edge of wetlands with a 25' wide Non-Turf Buffer landward of
the Non-Disturbance Buffer and re-vegetate cleared areas with 3
Almelanchier Canadensis (Serviceberry) trees, 10 Junipernus
Virginiana (Eastern Red Cedar) trees, 7 Viburnum Prunifoliu
(Blackhaw Viburnum) trees, 3 Myrica (Morelia) Pennsylvania
(Northern Bayberry) shrubs, 5 Rosa Virginiana (Virginia Rose)
Baccharis shrubs, 10 (Groundsel Bushes) shrubs, and 19
Andropogon Gerardii (Big Bluestem) perennials; and maintain a 4'
wide path to marsh.
Board of Trustees 45 January 22, 2014
The Board has been to this site numerous times. We have a
revised project description that we used in performing the
monthly field inspection. We reviewed a proposed planting plan
for the project. The application has been deemed to be
consistent by LWRP coordinator, but he did make specific
comments and had concerns concerning the application; the first
being that he suggested that the Board may wish to consider an
as-built plan once the plants are planted in the proposed
restoration, and that the Board consider a guaranteed survival
for a period of three years, which in fact is a discussion the
Board had during the course of field inspections. And he did
note, and I had seen the plan list, and it's interesting,
because I had some similar thoughts, he noted specifically that
the Blackhaw Viburnum will not serve the applicant well, or the
wetlands, since on the US plant database, it has a zero salt
tolerance. So it might be foolhardy to try to grow that species
there because it would simply succumb to possibly salt
Trustee King is very familiar with the conditions there, and
probably salt spray comes from the Long Island Sound, I don't
know if it's an issue, but anyhow, I'm sure we can deal with not
having Blackhaw Viburnum and not holding it out for its survival
and finding it would die.
The Conservation Advisory Council supports the application
with the condition the extremely sensitive area in zone ten line
seaward to the wetland line is managed appropriately using best
management practices.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this
application?
MS. MOORE: Yes. Good evening. Patricia Moore here on behalf of
Charlotte Raible and Wayne Weiss. And Jeffrey Friedman is here
as well. I noted the recommendation regarding the Blackhaw
Viburnum. What I would suggest as a notation you can say
alternative salt-tolerant plants in lieu of that. I think it
really depends on what is available at the time. But that could
be chosen when we know what is available.
TRUSTEE KING: If you are talking trees, I would suggest wild
cherry or scrub oak. Either one of those would survive there.
MS. MOORE: Okay, thank you. Those are two alternatives.
TRUSTEE KING: As a matter of fact I think there were some
cherries there before they were cut down.
MS. MOORE: Maybe either/or, or a combination of the two,
If that's all right.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes.
MS. MOORE: We did have, based on our field inspection, you asked
for additional plants along the edge of wetlands. That was done.
So we have the revised plan. It's essentially the same plan,
however there is significant addition of the Groundsel bushes
that the Board recommended. I also, before I got to the field
Board of Trustees 46 January 22, 2014
inspection, my understanding is you had suggested some mulch for
maintenance of the plants, and it didn't get on to the plans
themselves, but we wanted to make sure mulch is permissible
because I had, in the past 20 years or so, sometimes if you
don't say you are going to put mulch, then somebody makes you
take it out because it's not there, so.
TRUSTEE KING: I thought that was more of a suggestion to stop
erosion.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It was more of a suggestion. Maybe hay bales
with a silt fence put up in fairly, you know, short order of
time from now, just to prevent. We were concerned about, you
know, even before the construction takes place, actively, that,
you know, winter and spring rains would be discharging into the
wetland. But I think a silt fence and hay bale barrier, if we
did it at the ten-foot contour.
MS. MOORE: It's not on this plan. It's on the construction
plan.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It's on the construction plan, okay. That if
we could request that, maybe the comments of the LWRP
coordinator, that we consider a survivability inspection for
plant survival two or three years out, particularly since I
think the comments of your landscape professional that there is
a lot of material will start to grow back naturally, would be
something the Board may wish to consider. And I know
MS. MOORE: How will we deal with the plants that come back
naturally that will strangle the ones that are being planted.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't think that will happen, Pat.
MS. MOORE: You don't think so?
TRUSTEE KING: No.
MS. MOORE: Okay, we'll see.
TRUSTEE KING: You said ten foot. That really doesn't give them
enough room.
MS. MOORE: Well, nine foot and then the berm. Because the berm
is a natural barrier.
TRUSTEE KING: I would say along the nine-foot contour. That
gives you more working room around the house.
MS. MOORE: Thank you, yes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Good point.
TRUSTEE KING: The way that berm is by the fire pit, it would not
really be necessary.
MS. MOORE: No, exactly. So to the berm, kind of creating a seal.
That's fine. That makes sense.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, are there any other questions or
concerns?
TRUSTEE KING: This was a violation, right?
MS. HULSE: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: Has it been satisfied?
MS. HULSE: Pretty much, almost before it was issued.
Board of Trustees 47 January 22, 2014
MS. MOORE: They have been very cooperative from the beginning.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Are there any other questions or concerns
from the Trustees?
TRUSTEE KING: I have just a comment. I'm very familiar with the
area around here on Mattituck Creek. And if you go across, there
used to be a marina across the creek, the Petersons, which is
now a state facility. What I'm trying to get at is when you
clear for a view, the view works both ways. That house, you can
only see the very upper portion of it, none of the yard and just
the top part of the garage across the creek from Petersons. Now
you see exactly that. So it cuts both ways. Now you've lost some
of your privacy.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: And you are looking at
TRUSTEE KING: Right. I mean the marsh out in front is beautiful.
Like a say, it's a loss of privacy when you open it up.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Good point. Okay, hearing no
further concerns, I would make a motion to close the hearing in
this matter.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
I would make a motion to approve this application with the
revised plan submitted this evening with the addition of
Baccharus, with stipulation a hay bale and silt fence be
installed within 30 days and be inspected, and that the wetland
planting be stipulated that the restoration and revegetation
take place by June 30th, and that an additional inspection be
put in the Trustee tickler files to be conducted in let's make
it in two years when the permit is running. So that would be in
the Spring of 2016. That's my motion to approve. Three
additional inspections to be made: A hay bale inspection, a
planting inspection prior to June of 2014, and a Spring
inspection before June of 2016. So that would be three
inspections, One now, one for plants and one for plant
survivability.
MS. HULSE: Is that a motion, John?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes, that is my motion. There is no second
on the motion. Is there discussion on the motion?
TRUSTEE KING: The planting to be accomplished by June 30th?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: To be accomplished by June 30th of this year
and inspected.
MS. MOORE: Just a practical question.
MS. HULSE: One second, Pat. Is there a second?
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll second.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The motion is seconded. Discussion on the
motion?
MS. MOORE: Just a practical question. Hay bales, weather
permitting? Because I don't know, as far as snow.
Board of Trustees 48 January 22, 2014
TRUSTEE KING: Prior to construction.
MS. MOORE: Because we still need a building permit.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: 30 days is not enough?
MS. MOORE: I don't know what the weather will do. We have frozen
ground. How do we stake them? Can you stake in the winter?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: You can. Even if they are temporarily
placed, the silt fence can be folded under and wait
MS. MOORE: So we can do some kind of interim I'm sure we can
do interim within 30 days.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It's not part of the hearing. I think hay
bales and silt fence within 30 days. And a Board member will
inspect it. We'll certainly work with you on that.
MS. MOORE: Obviously we'll do this before we get the building
permit and your Trustee permit, too? Because I don't know how
long the processing takes with your, because we'll do covenants,
I'm sure, and back and forth.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We have a motion on the floor. The hearing
is closed. The clerk can help you with any of those matters. A
motion was made and seconded.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Vote of the Board?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: You can talk to the clerk.
MS. MOORE: I know how long it takes for processing and we may be
putting hay bales before we have an actual permit in hand, so as
long as that's okay.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Hay bales are in the order of usual
conservation activity. Conservation activity is actually, are
not a requirement.
MS. MOORE: No, we don't want another violation. That's clear.
Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Motion to adjourn.
TRUSTEE SANDERS: Second.
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We are adjourned.
Respectfully submitted by,
John M. Bredemeyer III, President
Board of Trustees
RECEIVED
+Souhold Z Q?0~
Town Clerk