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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-10/18/1965-PH PUBLIC HEARING EAST CUTCHOGUE SCHOOL Main Road~ Cutchogue~ N. 7:30 PoMo October 18, 1965 Pr es entwer e: Tt%USTEES ALVAH GOLDSMITH, JOHN MC 5U3LTY FRANK DAWSON GEORGE S I/~PS ON Chairman Proposed Dredging of Broadwaters Cove~ Mud~ Creek~_Etc~ . MR. GOLDSMITH: I will preface this meeting by saying that it is called on the request of approximately 100 property owners who are opposed to the proposed dredging plan. Now~ there are a lot of people here tonight and I*m sure there are a number of people who would like to be heard - come forward and give your name and address to the secretary, and make it as brief as ~ossible~ ~his hearing is not going to be a debate -- it*s not going to result in arguments° We are here to get facts° It isnZt necessary for the Trustees to have a hearing, but we donZt want to do things in an underhanded fashion ~ you have the right to express your opinion and that is the purpose of the hearing tonight and I hope it will be conducted on the high plane khat we have a right to expect from this audience° I would like to hear from someone in opposition to this plan, MR~ OSBOI{N MC KEGNEY: I am attorney for the property owners who filed the petition - who requested this hearing~ I trust this is just what it is, a public hearing where you seek to get the wishes and desires of your community so that you can act in a parliamentary manner - all you do is get the wishes of your community. I would like to very briefly state that there are two issues that have to be determined tonight. The first issue is the power of the ~/Trustees of this Town to prevent the dredging operations. There is a-difference of opinion among many people, not only in your community but in all similar communities, as to ex- actly what power the Trustees have to stop a dredging operation° It seems to be an impression that if the Army engineers approve a project that your hands are tied - that is not correct. Despite the Army engineers~ if the Town Trustees believe that the best interests of the citizens will be adversely affected~ they have the right to stop the dredging operations if that be thair opinion~ The second issue which you must determinekis that after assuming that you have the power -- should you excercise that power either to stop the dredging operations or to approve the operation~ These are the two issues you will have to determine tonight. I assume you are here to hear the wishes of all the people in this community who would like to be heard° Now~ I would like to leave with you a legal memorandum which es- tablishes the right of the Town TLrustees to prohibit these dredging ope=ationso As you know~ that power stems from the old Andros patent° This memorandum establishes that from the Andros patent, the New York State Constitution~ five separate acts of the New York Legislature~ and similarly, six Court of Appeals decisions which ascertained the rights of the Town TLrustees as to jurisdiction over the bottoms of your creeks and coves~ and it follows from that that you have an solute right~ if you so decide~ to exercise that power to stop these operations° How you should exercise that power is the reason you have called this meeting° I would like to offer some additional files that I think will be of some assistance° I would like to offer you a file that describes the dredging project from the request of the County to the Army engineer for permission to dredge the creeks through your concurrence. Also~ a letter written by you~ Mr. Chairman, on February 27 in which you ex- plained you would like to have more information. I have a very inter- esting file~ Mr° Chairman° These dredging opeations have been done in this and other parts of the communities° I have a file of letters from property owners where they have had dredging operations which Dredging ~Broadw~ters Cove~ etc. --2- October 18~ 1965 haven't been stopped~ ~hese people - what happened to them after the dredging operations? Immediately you are going to have a beautiful body of water and everyboldy can get their boats out to the channel - it just doesn't happen that way~ We get a great big channel in the middle and a mud flat on the sides° the use of the w~ter instead of being enhanced is diminished and these letters will establish that this is so. I have here a petition signed by several hundred people with their X names and addresses. This is in addition to the petition signed by several hundred affected by this dredging operation° I have a file of various letters written by the U. So Department of Interior Fish and Wildlife Service. Two letters apply to State projects in which they state their opposition to dredging . it destroys the ecology, it de- stroys the existing fish and wildlife~ The third letter is on this very project and the Fish and Wildlife Service explain ~his - we don~t want to stop this entirety~ but we will tell you what you can do to prevent the destruction of the ecology of the creeks. Let it go~ but limit it so that it will not have the destroying effect it would have otherwise. I have another file of the after-effects of some of these opera- tions, including a very excellent letter showing exactly what happened under similar operations in other States where complete oyster beds were destroyed and they have never been able to replace them~ You gentlemen can read it and see what actually happened~ emro McKegney then called attention to a prominent lawsuit in North Carolina where Army engineers completely wiped out oyster beds and had never placed them° He stated that ~ this happened here~ the people would have the right to sue just as they have in North Carolina and it is the duty of the Trustees to prevent such a lawsuit by stopping it in the very be, ginning°) ~hat is the documentary evidence~ I would like to make one further statement - there are gentlemen here that I hope in the course of the evening you will be able to listen to - I ~m not going to attempt toX discuss the nature of these dreding ope~ations~ I am a lawyer - I know nothing about it, and I have enough intelligence not to try to discuss a subject in which I am completely ignorant° I just know the legal rights of these people and I do know that there are gentlemen here who a~e thoroughly qualified to discuss this project and the position my clients take is not that they want to stop progress - it's a problem of stopping destruction° There is a differ- ence between progress and destruction° They want the progress and to the extent that we have dreding operations done proper~y and not stop progress -- they are not opposed~ If it goes through on the present scale~ it*s destruction~ To establish that, we would wish to call here Mro Robert Cushman Murphy, author of "History of Man and Nature on Long Island" and one of the foremost ecologists in the country° He is here to give you technical information° In addition to that, we have representatives of the Fish and Wildlife SerVice - representatives of the Department of Conservation who are familiar with the problem and who have the technical information to help - Mr~ Dowel and XMr. Tarramino. It is your right and duty to stop the destruction of property that belongs.to the people of this community. Dredging Broadwaters Cove, Etco --3-- October 18, 1965 MR. GOLDSMITH: We are supposed to have here these experts - I would ask that you limit your remarks to five minutes. Dr. Murphy? DR~ ROBERT MUI%PHY= I didn*t come here to speak before this gr&up, but I.am a Long Islander by birth and an inhabitant of Brookhaven Town and I would-like to speak for a few minutes about the salt~arshes as an important aspect of the history of the land with important bearing upon the happiness of the people of Long Island and on all parts of the Atlantic]f seaboard° (Dr~ Murphy discussed at some length the different types of wildlife abounding on Long Island~ and the dangers of losing the very valuable salt marshes on the Island by burying it with the sp&ils sucked up from the bottoms around ito He felt it was very wrong to dig out channels where clams, escallops and oysters are teeming as they have not been in years. He felt that dreding would result in the buildup ~f mud banks which would cover the valuable salt marshes.) know that there is no intention of spoiling the marsh at the meeting of the three creeks~ but the marsh for a long distance above is doomed to be covered with spoil. That is the worst possible land use. It de- stroys beauty, it/(destroys productivity° M~ssachusetts has reached the point at last where the law sayB there can be no further destruction of salt~arsh, not even by individuals who own ito That is what you should reach on Long Island° MR. GOLDSMITH: Thank you~ Dr. Murphy~ Mro Dowel? M/{. SUMNER DOWEL~ I am the representative in charge of Fish and Wildlidfe, Bellport~ Long Island~ I am here to present the Federal Government*sX official position. Our Department made a report March 2 to the Corps of Engineers suggesting certain things that would preserve fish and wild lando I should point out at this point that the Conser- vation Department only considers these matters and do not have to approve dredging - on the other r hand, the Corps of Engineers does not always con- sider our recommendations° Our lawyers in Washington - they have had hundreds of dredging projects on Long Island and several on these matters considered by the Army Engineers° In this case, we recommended five things from our Boston office~ "1. That dredging in East Creek be dBlayed until after April 1 to allow removal and transplanting of shellfish stocks.X "2~ That the applicant remove the shellfish from JEast Creek and transplant these shellfish to a suitable location. "3~ That both the removal and transplanting of shellfish stocks be coordinated and directed by the New York State Division of Fish and Game. "4~ That spoil deposited on the east shore of Broadwater Cove be diked or confined so as to prevent any runback into the water~rayo "5° That all channel dimensions be limited to bottom widths of 60 feet and depths of 5 feet at m.l~wo" (Mr. Dowel then cited figures on the loss ~of salt marsh along the Atlantic Coast, and that Long Island has 25 to 30% of the remaining marshes and these are very productive°) Dredging Broad,raters Cove~ etc. --4-- October 18, 1965 One other point I wish to work in here is that your salt marshes are not only productive - they have a sponge-shock action which dissi- pates the force of hurricanes.X MR. GOLDSMITH: Thank you very much, Mr. Dowel. MR° ANTHONY S. TARRAMINO: I am Regional Supervisor of Fish and Game for the New York State Conservation Department. Our Department has concurred with the U. So Wildlife Service in the report of Mr. Dowel which he has read part of. I might remind you folks/here that we in the State Conservation Department are working for all the people in the State and ~ try to manage your resources in such a ~ray that we think ~s in the best interests of all the people in the State° I know on Long Island3f it seems hard to think that you are part of the State of New York, but people who live as far away as Buffalo or Albany are concerned about the Island resources just as we hope you think of the timber resources in the State. You do~ as State citizens, own about 3,000,000 acres of public lands in New York State° Now~ we in the State Conservation ~Department are often accused of thinking more of fish and wildlife than we do about people° Our position is this - we believe that there are many, many people who are vitally concerned about fish and wildlife. (Mro Tarramino spoke at some length on the beauties of nature and how the early settlers appreciated the landXand adapted themselves to He called attention to the fact that some of our best culture is right in the land around USo The tendency seems to be to chan~ everything rather than to live with itu He felt the people present should try to obtain a better understanding of their en=ironment . that they would not ~e so obligated to change it unless they were aware of what these changes might do to all the other living things that are part of the community.) MRQ GOLDSMITH: Thank you~ Mro ~arramino.~ Welhave listened to these gentlemen in opposition to this proposal° They have had a half hour. I think we will devote the next half hour to those who are in favor. Do we have anyone who wishes to speak in favor of this project? MR° GEORGE Fo SCHNEIDER (Mason Drive, Broadwaters Cove~ Cutchogue, New York): The permit to dredge any one of these creeks is not an easy thing to obtain. Departments on the Federal, State~ and County level, and we must consider all of these agencies are expert in their jobs. There has been much talk about fill - on this particular project, almost half of the fill is going to go to a public works project along the causeway to widen it and eliminate a dangerous curve, and provide parking space. At the present time there are signs along the west side of that road which state, "No Parking°" There is not enough parking. It is pro- posed to build a new road with the existing road a part of the Town Beach~ This is almost 50% of the fill. The other part will be put on private property° It will not inundate any public lands or any beautiful areas° I live right on ~ Broadwaters Cove. I bought the property because I like the area° I would not advocate the dredging project if I thought it would~uin the area° Dredging Broadwaters ~ove~ Etc. -5-- October 18, 1965 We come in across the bar at low tide and anywhere up to 3/4 tide it is pretty much impassable, people cart their boats across~ People who own inboard boats are paying taxes on Waterfront property and paying for dockage facilities in New Suffolk° We talk about compromise. I think the people in favor have com- promised~ These ~ channels should be dug 100 feet° We have com- promised to about 75 feet - the limit of their working ability. The engineers changed the plan and now the proposed channel will run through the existing channel . there is very little marsh land being taken out. It is really digging out a channel that has always been there° One thing has not been mentioned here tonight - people are concerned with taxes going Upo If taxes go up~ it is not because of dredging. Taxes go up because of an increase in value~ We all buy property in the hope it will go up in value~ This year Nassau Point Was raised and there had been no dredgin~o I~d like Mr~ T~omsen to come up with a map he has° M/%. EDWARD THOMSEN, Mason Drive, Cutchogue: (Mr. Thomsen presented a map of the area in question and asked that it be returned to him when the Trustees no longer had need of it~) ~his Committee for the Improve. ment of Waterways which was formed has received/( signatures in excess of 100 in favor of this dredging° These people all have property on the Water or deeded rights~ On this map it shows in red owners in favor of this project° All in red are the people in favor of this dredging° The major~ have certainly given this a lot of thought in the past 10 years and they can say we nsed ito The Board of TLrustees will realize this. Mr~ Milovitch, Army Engineer has stated that they do not give permits out unless they are ok'd by the Fish and Wildlife Service~ They pre- sented letters in favor of dredging~ The originals were given to the Army Engineers in New York and sent to Washington° These are photo- static copies° MR. GOLDSMITH: Thank you~ Mr~ Thomseno Anyone else? MR. BOB P~EHM, Park Commissioner of New SLuffolk and Cutchogue: I would mention that the Park Commission is definitely for this dredging° We are mainly for it because of the Park District° The property on the Cause~ray is going to be a road° The existing road is to be a parking loto It:s crowded during the summer - it*s dangerous to children - definitely a hazard to the kids~ As far as the area is concerned, it isn't marsh. I agree with Dr. Murphy here -- it should be bulkheaded - we are in favor of it~ DR. MUP~PHY: I would like to see it bulkheaded. MR. REHM: People are coming from the outside - how can you stop it? How are you going to stop it on a beach two feet off the road? When the new road comes through there can be a fence with one entra.nce in there. One guard will take care of the people who Want to use that beach. MR. GOLDSMITH: Thank you~ Mr~ Rehm. Anyone else for? Dredging Broadwaters Cove, Etc. --6-- October 18, 1965 COMMANDER CANIFF, New Suffolk: I don*t propose to know anything about ~sland resources, but I am almember of the Oceanagraphic Founda- tion and I have been reading.in their publication over the last two years about what's happening to our creeks and saltlmarshes and most of it has been that they are being stagnated by the natural erosion of this coast° The Atlantic Coast is being eroded about~HXH one foot a year. In any case in Broadwaters Cove thirty years ago there was six feet of water across this same bar that now has 16 inches~ If the salt marshes are stagnated, it is lny understanding that all wildlife dies~ They can't exist in stagnatfed water° Therefore~ I am for this dredging on the plain basis of our wildlife. It seems strange to me that the Conservation Department would approve such dredging if there was going to be any drastic effect on wildlife° That is all I have to say° MR. GOLDSMITH: Tharkk you, Mr. Caniffo We still have time for those in favor. MRo WINSTON DAVIDS, Bay Avenue: In listening to this discussion about to dredge or not to dredge, I want to state that personally I will not discard my 40 years of experience around the local creeks° Mr. Caniff just said six feet deep in that channel ~ in 1931 I sailed a 12-ton sloop up that a channel at half tide. (Mr° Davids then mentioned several other creeks~ some of them man-made, in surrounding areas that had been dredged and how the fishing and clamming bad been improved rather than depleted°) So I say again, I only ask that everybody apply common sense to this ~uestion~ I thank you~X MRo GOLDSMITH= Anyone else to speak in favor? M/{. VINCENT ANNABEL, Fleets Neck~ Cutchogue: I am in favor of the dredging. .I've seen fish in Eugene's Creek and have seen them in Broadwaters. I have seen escallops~ clams and oysters that are Bpoken of here° They.are not in Eugene's Creek today° There is supposed to be a small set of clams near the mouth~ but if this isn't dredged out in the near future these will die. I will show you nothing but a bunch of dead escallop shells~ clams and oyster shells. In the past we used to be able to get a boat in and out° I'm interested in boating. There's no reason in the world we cannot have a chan~elo This will not effect the marsh land on either side° The fill will be used for two worthwhile purposes - just a channel down the middle and as Mro Caniff brought up this channel is less than 10 inches at a low tide° I can't get in or out at a half tide and my boat draws only two feet of water. The Town has approved it, the ~ngineers have approved it. We are entitled to it at this time. Thank you° MRo AL LEAVETT~ Bay Avenue: I have two boats down there and it's impossible to get in or out at half tide° Other than that, youcan~t get through~ I would suggest that they put the spoil on the road in front of my house~ At a good tide there is a foot of water in front ofXmy house and nothing done about it. Thank you. GOLDSMITH: Anyone else for the project would like to speak? Dredging ~roadwat~rs Cove~ Etc~ -7- October 18~ 1965 MRS° R. Wo MU~J~R, Bay Avenue~ Cutchogue: My question is -- all the dredging has been done around us from XGreenport and all the way beyond us to Mattituck~ Why are our particular marsh~s in these three creeks in question so important to wildlife? This I cannot get° Is this going to make the difference in wildl, ife on this end of Long Islandl I go along with Mr. Leavetto We cannot Get our 12--foot boat with a . ten horsepower motor across at a half tide° It's almost impossible to get out to the Bay at the inlet° Thank you very much. MR. SAL GULLO, East Creek: We have heard about this meeting going on tonight° We bought a piece of property with the intention of doing some boating and now we have ourselves with two boats tied up in there and cannot use it. I have a 29-f9ot boat which is still tied up there for the last six monthsj. $ cannot see where this will hurt any clams and escallops. The only oysters I have found in those creeks - I can*t see any reason why this dreding should not be done for that par- ticular reason~ Thank you. M~. GOLDSMITH: Now~ ladies and gentlemen~ we have had a half hour on each side for the expression of opinions for and against this program. We don't want any facts left unsaid. MR. F. E. MARTIN~ Main Road~ Cutchogue: I raise two other questions relative to this ~ssue and one which I think is morally incorrect - using of taxpayers~ money for a minority. The other thingK is a question of fresh water supply~ I'm no expert, but I have studied the geography of Long Island and I think it's in danger if you cut into clay lands that are helping to hold in your freshwater supply° It depends on equal pressure from the sea and the fresh water. (Mro.Martin mentioned the fact that Happauge, Long Island~ was named for its sweet water and that now you could find very little in Happauge~ and that Lake Ronkonkoma is four inches lower today then it was a y&ar ago.) GOLDSMITH: Anyone else against the project? SMR. FRED BAv,~WIN~ East Road~ Cutchogue: After receiving the notice from the Army Engineers in November~ 1964, I called Mr° Albertson and said, "What is the purpose of this~ Mr~ Albertson?" He said, "This is to improve the economy of our Town~ We would like to open this up to make it kind of an invitation to people who would like to come in there and own waterfront property°" Incidentally, I find myself somewhat in opposition because I didn:t come down here for economy. I came down to get away from economy~ (Mr° Baldwin then read a letter dated March 10~ 1965~ which he wrote to Mr. Alvah Goldsmith stating his reasons for opposition to this plan, namely that both sides ought to reexamine the whole matter using less emotion, and to make sure that ~cientific study has justified the proposed dredging.) Thank you very much. MR. PAUL STOUTENBERG, Bay Avenue, Cutchogue: First, we speak of some very Kffine dredging operations that have been undertaken° Look a little closer at some dredging operations - Corey Creek. The result - I have some photographs and I think there are people in the audience who back me up - because of the proplem that arose~ and the problem is - mud Dredging Broadwmters Cove~ Etc~ ~8- October 18~ 1965 flats that have evolved~ I hope you all think well of this because should you go into this thing in a large scale and the water drains ~off as Dro Murphy has said, you will have mud flats and here is the proof right here. The proof is in Corey Creek~ I have two letters from people in that area who have spent $2,700 of their own money ~o eliminate some of these mud flats° With your-permission I would like to use the chalk board. (Mr. Stoutenberg then drew a diagram of the creek area to be dredged and what it would look like after the alleged mud flats had appeared.) Now, how do you get out to the channel? A man says he*il dredge~ He asks for a permit to dredge° We have &way to eliminate this problem. We now have ourselves a harbor~ It now appears that we have changed what many people have come here to live for. I ask you to consider these things° You have a map that shows in red the property owners along the creek that approve . what about the Town people? It's just as much theirs along the creek° This project will run from ,four to six months~ This dredge runs X$10,000 a week; one month, $~0,000; six months - figure it out - $160,000 - for who? The red people? Think this over, people, because once you go ahead and dredge you can't fill back in° Now, the park - this might be worthy of some thought° But, on your map if this was the real intent you could get all the fill you wanted out in the Bay to remove this bar° The real thing is - do you want this - you can get it out in the Bay here. ~z~ Why not? Because there is an ulterior motive of people who live at the end oflMud Creek. Who has spent more time in the Creek than I have - one week ago I went eeling and found the greatest supply of small weak fish I have ever seeR. This is all I have to say. MR. FELIX DOROSKI: I just want to say a couple of words. Two and a halfHyears ago you can't get in there - it's mud, no eels, crabs or nothing° Thank you° MR. CLAUDE HOLB~%EQUE, Bay Avenue: (Went to the chalk board and pointed to the drawing done by the previous speaker°) ~his is a very nice drawing, but I guess we could do it all over and eliminate the mud flats~ If you take 1 the channel like this, the water will tend to bring the ~ud in and draw it back - I think° MR. ANDREW HALL, Broadwaters Road: I haven*t been here as long as many people~aveo I'm very much against~the dredging because I came out here to a beautiful place. However, I do want to say that.some statements have been made that I don't think are true~ The Fish and Wildlife - I don't think they have approved this, have they? Mr° Dowel, have.the Fish and Wildlife approved this? MR° DOWEL: The Fish and XWildlife Service is not against dredging but we should use common sense and we recommended that this dredging only be done if these conditions were made which I read before° I would like to make one point clear, with regard to dredging projects~ that the Army Engineers do not listen to us]many times~ They do not honor our request that a dredging permit not be put through° Dredging Broadvraters Cove, Etco -9- October 18, 1965 MR. HAT,T,: Another thing - people have suggested putrificationo I don't see there is any putrificationo I would like to ask some of the experts here to substantiate this if I]may. MR° GOLDSMITH: I don~t think these gentlemen are here to discuss this. They are in favor within limits° I don:t think itXs fair to call on them and I~m not going to permit it~ MR. HATJ.: Mr~ Caniff suggested that the water is receding here and this will lead to a kind of putrification and I think this should be challenged because I]E)E~O~ think it is vital to the dredging and most of us who oppose it are not opposed to removing the sand bar and opening up the mouth - we do want it modifiedz but I don't see any evidence of any kind of putrification along the way. MR~o MUT.T.RR: Please come along the creeks at low tide° MR. STOUTENBERG: According to the New York State DLepartment of Health which possesses a map using their specifications in Mud Creek it states marsh land, natural drainage, etCo - SoAo SoAo is the very best - according to the DLepartment of Health° MR. JACK PHILLIPS~ Beebe Drive: This part on the bent in Mud ~wxx( Creek° I don:~ know if Paul Stoutenberg has tried it~ but the cabbage in there is very high in the summer and very smelly. There are no clams at that end of the creek° Those clams die in the winter- time. (Showed on the]map where clams are located°) As far as the Board of Health is concerned - my well had to be forty feet down along that Creek° The Board of Health toldlme I had to put lmy well down forty feet. I did. We ended pulling our-wells up again to thirteen feet because the water ~ which the Board of Health said was down there isn't fit to drink. I think there's something wrong with this outfit somewhere. MRS. BARSTAOW: I am President of the ~ Conservation Assolcia- tion of Long Island°. One argument seems not to be brought up at allo We conservationists are in this work for love of the land and for love of our people; for love of the food, and for love of beauty° Most of those who want the dredging are in loveX with the money in their pockets~ Now, which of those arguments is the greater? MR° MC KEGNEY~k I would like first to compliment the Trustees in the excellent orderly.way in which they have conducted this hearing° I have had forty years in this work and I have never seen such a digni- fied meeting~ Since you have the power~ then you can adopt the party*s suggestion who said let's investigate, get the facts first and then make your decision - that would be the proper, sensible approach. The dredging can wait° The destruction canno~ wait. Today is the k~ay of compromise. Perhaps you can Hgive your permission to a smaller dredge. Just because they have a big dredge, do they have to use it° Now, perhaps what they want to accomplish can be accomplished with a smaller dredge, or dredging operation. In the meantime, you can continue your scientific investigation° X If these things then prove true, you can stop any further dredging° Thank you° Dredging Broadwaters Cove~ Etc. -10-- October 18, 1965 M~o EAT~R, BayAVenue, Cutchogues I dont* claim to be an expert of anything, but we have conservationists and people who are experts telling us we must not give up the salt marsh° On the other hand, we have reports of experts, of experts on the Federal level giving per- mission all down the line - it's a case of the right hand not letting the left hand know what's going Ono Now, if it's wrong~ it's wrong -- if it:s right, it's right. I'm no Philadelphia lawyer or New York lawyer. I came to listen as our people in this community do -- this type of meeting.~.a school meeting - we listen to each other and try to work for each other's good. Beware of the man who comes too well armed° MRo WILLIAM BEEBE~ Cutchogue: I~ve listened to this whole procedure tonight and I am in favof of the dredging° It seems as though almost everybody gets ~ up for the opposition - part agrees that some dredging has to be done in these creeks. Most of them have lived here as long as I have. I think it's necessary that these creeks be opened up. You can say we have changed the waterways which I think is good and for us land people on these creeks~ and others in the Town - the whole Town should have the benefit of these creeks° They have a right to go down there and go clamming or eeling and whatever they want t~ dOo It's to their benefit to be opened up, too° That's all I have to say° Thank you° GOLDSMITH: Anyone else like to be heard? M~. DAVIDS:X On this great cost of dreding I would like to say that the two dredges, the Nissequogue and the Shinnecock~ runs every day. They belong to the County, they are running and have been running ever since they have been put in use° Whether or not they dredge Broadwaters Creek, the cost of those dredges will go on° So far~ I don't believe there has been any two--months' period shnce they have those dredges - I would say that for an extra cost of $25°00 for fuel, we'll have Broadwaters Creek dredged instead of having them lay idle somewheres up west. Thank you. M~o GOLDSMITH: I would like to say that apparently from some of the arguments we have heard as Trustees, there are a lot of people that water does not seek its own level in these creeks~ When we have ex- tremes, either high or low, the people in the creeks are going to know it. Anyone else like to ~e heard before we adjourn this meeting? MR~J. EDWA/{D ROSS, Strohson Road: I am a lover of natural beauty and we think today this natural beauty is just disappearing all over the land. What are our children going to see in the years to come - a creek with beautiful marsh~ grass? It'll be like a harbor with the siding Upo But that:s a minor thingo We love the birds and I want to tell you just last week twice we have seven swans at the foot of our dock, we have countless black ducks and all along our shore we can get numerous clams. We have been here for 30 years. We came because we love the natural beauty and God gave us this beauty and all over America today it's fast disappearing and I want to say that I am glad that I was born when I was born because I have seen America the Beautiful° Dreging Broadwaters Coves Etco --11-- October 18~ 1965 MR. GOLDSMITH: Thank you, Mrs. Ross° We will thank you people for coming° -I'm sure it's been interesting to everyone~. MR. JOHN E. TIMPSON~ Bay Avenue~ Cutchogue: Some remarks have been made about if these creeks were dredged how we would have these mud flats. I don*t doubt perhaps there will be some mud flats° would like to ask Mr. Evans if we just opened that inlet and don~t do any dredging, won't we still have the mud flats? (Mr. Barney Evans~ Army Engineer, signified that this was correct~)- I would like to have that show on the record that Mr~ Evans, the engineer, claims we will have them if we just Qpen the inlet° We must open the inlet. MRS. M~Y~ Nassau Point: I would just like to ask if a good strong hurricane wont undo all that work that the dredge is going to do? M~. GOLDSMITH: I hope we never see another hurricane because God knows what it will do~ M~o STO~TENBERG: Someone had said here that we were for this dredging. Originally~ we were against it completely - we have been giving and giving and compromising - and the Federal and State people - the thing I think that is most important is to have facts as stated before. The County has just put in a Cedar Beach area~ one of the first projects on it will be Hthe study of the results of dredging. It isn't that far away to wait and see what that study will be. (At this point, an unidentified gentleman in the audience moved that the meeting be adjourned and complimented the ~Board of Trustees on their conducting of the meeting~ and also asked that the ~Board of Trustees in turn compliment the orderliness of the audience.. Mr° Goldsmith concurred and the meeting was adjourned at 9:05 PoMo)