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HomeMy WebLinkAbout02/11/1987 (2) 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 J 1 2 4 5 6 PRESENT: Page PUBLIC HEARING BY AND BEFORE THE SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD, HELD ON THE llTH DAY OF FEBRUARY, 1987 AT 2:00 P.M., AT THE SOUTHOLD SENIOR/YOUTH CENTER, PECONIC LANE, PECONIC, NEW YORK, IN THE MATTER OF "A LOCAL LAW TO AMEND THE SOUTHOLD TO[~N ZONING CODE AND ZONING MAP INCORPORATED THEREIN, TO IMPLEMENT, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE ~STER PLAN UPDATE PREPARED BY THE PLANNING BOARD." FRANCIS J. MURPHY, Supervisor PAUL STOUTENBURGH, Councilman JAMES A. SCHONDEBARE, Councilman JEAN W. COCHRANE, Councilwoman GEORGE L. PENNY, IV, Councilman JUDITH T. TERRY, Town Clerk JUSTICE RAYMOND W. ED~ARDS DAVID EMILITA, Planner ROBERT W. TASKER, ESQ., Town Attorney Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 [THIS PORTION OF THE PUBLIC HEARING WAS CONVENED AT 2:15 P.M.] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Board, speak MRS. MARRINER: Please, when you address the Town please be sure to identify yourself and slowly so we can pick the name up. Jeanne? My name is Jeanne Marriner; Mattituck. I'm speaking as a private citizen, long time taxpayer and resident. I am speaking for my family, and also for my friends and other residents who are unable to be here, or who have stopped me on the street and in church and asked me to voice their concerns, and for the sur~%er residents and tourists, who also contribute to the economic base, and who come to Southold Town to get away from crowds and pollution, and who, also, want the Town to protect the quality of life that makes the Town so very special. Members of the Board, we are all greatly concerned that the proposed zoning will severely adversely impact on that quality of life. We believe that we have a right to know just what the impacts could be and how the Town proposes to deal with them to protect our health safety and economic wellbeing. 261WOODBURy ROAD hUNTINGTON. N y 11743 421-2255 692.7303 Page 3 8 9 10 11 12 I3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 I 2 3 5 6 7 If through poor land use planning you wreck our environment, you also wreck our economy. So, I ask you, as I did last October, as President of the League of Women Voters, to reconsider your decision and to do a full environmental quality review of the proposed zoning. The SEQRA review process would allow us to see the costs and benefits of the zoning and its effect on our tax structure. What will it cost us, as taxpayers, to put in water mains, sewers and other town facilities and services needed to sustain growth and development? What effect on our already serious traffic situation and on our groundwater supply, and on our coastal waters? How will we manage larger amounts of solid waste? What will the proposed zoning and ensuing growth do to our woodlands, wetlands, open spaces, historic area, beaches and other resources, which are the foundation of much of our economic base? The results of a generic impact statement will allow us and you, our town 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 4 8 9 ]0 ]! 12 ]3 15 16 ]7 [9 20 2] 22 23 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 officials, to determine what zoning regulations are really needed to phase in growth and how much growth Southold Town can economically and environmentally handle and still maintain its tourist attractiveness and quality of life for all of us who live here. It is not unusual for town officials to protect the quality of life of their town through zoning. Time and again the courts have upheld three, five and ten acre zoning and moratoriguns as a means of protecting groundwater supply and quality of life in environmentally fragile areas; and you have only to look at a map of Long Island to realize that most of Southold Town is in the coastal zone and environmentally very sensitive. In fact, our fragile groundwater situation and the value of the Peconic Bay's estuary system is cited in a number of state, county and re9ional documents as needing protection. Here in Southold Town, we have the same legal right as East Hampton and Oyster Bay Towns to limit future growth in accordance with our economic and environmental resources. The courts uphold town officials who 261WOODBUR¥ ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 42~-2255 692.7383 Page 5 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 recognize that their first obligation is to their present residents. Let's find out what are limits actually are and what kind of development will actually advance the goals of our Master Plan. A SEQRA review process can help us determine our proper destiny. I realize that the SEQRA process is not an easy task and it does cost money. But, if done properly, many more dollars protect it will show us in the long run, the quality of life. Don't we, the present residents of the how to save and also Town of Southold, deserve to have zoning laws that measure the effect of land use on the quality of life and economic welfare of the community rather than zoning based on the highes- economic return to the developers? Thank you for allowing me to speak. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. In the front? MR. PROUD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and honorable members of the Town Board. My name is Geoff Proud. I speak for the group, Citizen Action Fo] Affordable Housing, Southold people who need housing, but cannot afford to buy the high-price 261WOODBURY ROADhUNTiNGTONNy 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 6 20 2] 22 23 2~ 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 i5 16 17 18 condominiums currently being built in our town. We wish to persuade the Town's leadership to actively encourage the building of housing, both for ownership and for rental, which is within the price range of average families; in particular, young families who are just starting up and elderly people whose income is limited. When this organization formed two years ago, it had as an objective the incorporation of an affordable housing ordinance into the Town's Master Plan. Citizen Action worked closely with the Southold Housing Advisory Committee to achieve this objective. To the extent that the Town is aware of its affordable housing shortage and the problem is acknowledged in Article V of the Revised Zoning Ordinance, we are pleased with the progress that has been made. The Town Board deserves to be commended for its effort up to this point, but there is more to be done. So far, not a single housing unit in the affordable range has been built despite everyone's effort. Is that because building and development have been halted across the 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 421 2255 692-7383 Page 7 8 9 lO I1 12 13 1¢ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 board, out of concern for the precarious state of Southold's natural resources? Not at all. In the past two years, hundreds of housing units in price ranges twice what working people can afford have been built and continue to be built with the approval of the Town Board and the Planning Board. While we are often reminded that "we don't want another Jericho Turnpike or another Syosset out here," two auto body shops, an all-night gas station/combination convenience store, and the beginnings of a shopping strip have developed on the North Road. Luxury development tracts spring up all around us: Cove Shore Estates, Homestead Acres, Founders Village, and more to come. Zoning ordinances, tax laws, builder profits, investor opportunities, all favor the building of high-priced condominiums over modest affordable housing. Unless government leadership intervenes, there is no chance of righting this imbalance and %he Town obtaining the kind of housing it really needs for its social and economic well-being. 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 There is no disputing the fact that Southold's natural resources are limited and fragile. But if that be the case, should not the people living and working here have first call on them? Ironically, the Boards' land use policies, whether they realize it or not, have worked against everyone's purpose. The two-acre moratorium has artificially inflated land values and made the use of the land most attractive to absentee investors and to persons whose resources allow them to build two-acre estates. Running its logical zoning will result in no open second homes on course, two-acre spaces at all; but instead, residences will be sprawled out all over the countryside, with everyone requiring two or more motor vehicles. The policy's detrimental effect on the working economy will turn Southold not into Syosset, rather into an economically depressed colony. The urgency of the affordable housing crisis is announced by many voices. In a letter to his pastors, the Catholic Bishop of Long Island called it "an immense and urgent 261 WOODBURY rOAD HUNT}NGTON N y 11743 4Zl-2255 692.7383 Page 9 8 9 10 11 12 ~3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 need," and said that, "Our towns and villages must.., cooperate in every possible way to resolve this tragic problem." The Long Island Association (LIA), the group which looks after Long Island's economy, states in its report on housing that, "Many communities and local governments do not comprehend the necessity of pursuing (affordable housing) projects with the initiatives and resources necessary .... " "The time has now come," the report goes on, "to move from talking about the issue to taking specific actions to increase the amount of affordable housing on Long Island. Without it, our parents, our employees and our employers may find that they cannot and will not be a part of the Long Island community any longer." Newsday, the New York Times, the Daily News and local papers chronicle the problem with a steady output of news, features and editorial comment. Suffolk County established a special executive level office for housing advocacy. Nassau County initiated special legislation to assist the elderly in obtaining suitable homes. 26 I WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y lt743 42~-2255 692.7383 Page 10 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 I5 16 17 18 Ordinarily, the influence and actions of powerful institutions like these would be enough to forestall a housing crisis. But in this case, they are frustrated because the control of land use is in the hands of each individual town and incorporated village. Although local governments are generally thought of as weak and limited in the powers they can exercise on their own, it is their unique prerogative, by means of zoning laws, to control the availability and distribution of housing -- shelter, a basic human necessity as essential as food and clothing. This is why all the voices are directed at the leaders of local government. And why local officials are being called upon to exercise a responsibility, the gravity of which they may never have felt before. The Town Master Plan, with its connotation of a new beginning, offers an excellent opportunity for leadership to take hold on this responsibility and ach decisively. Set a land use policy which is positive toward affordable housing needs, not merely neutral 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421 2255 692 7383 Page 11 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and passive. Pass zoning ordinances for affordable housing with a determination to makin~ them work. Adopt an unprejudiced, cordial and cooperative attitude toward builders who address the affordable housing problem. While the current revision of the proposed Master Plan includes an Affordable Housing District ordinance, the ordinance has not given us any housing. And since it has been criticized as "unworkable" in its present form, it would not seem to offer much hope for the future. It definitely needs work. In the light of all that we hear about the housing crisis, Citizen Action urges the Board to regard the present revision of the Master Plan as having brought us only so far, and not to stop fixing it until it works for people here who need housing. Thank you very much. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Geoff. Next speaker? MR. MC LAUGHLIN: J. Kevin McLaughlin. I am here representing Richard Mullen and Esther Pilles. Two letters previously have been sent to the Board, and I would just like to review the contents of the letters sent to you on Page 12 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 I3 14 15 16 17 18 January 20, 1987. Richard Mullen is the record owner of certain parcels on the south side of Main Road in Southold, New York, which have been used for over thirty years as an automobile showroom and dealership by Mullen Motors, Inc. The tax map numbers on those parcels are 1000-62-3-10.002 11 and 20. Esther Pilles is the record owner of a parcel on the north side of Main Road, Southold, New York, which has been used for over thirty years as a body shop adjunct of Mullen Motors, Inc., and for thirty years prior to that was the site of Mullen Motors, Inc.; the parcels 1000-62-Lot 12. Apparently, in response to previous letters sent to the Board by Mr. Price, Lots 11 and 20 were changed from a Hamlet Business District, in which an automobile dealership is not a permitted use, to a Business District, in which an automobile dealership is a permitted use. As a result, Lots 10.003 and 12 remained in the Hamlet Business District. In the event this proposed zoning Page 13 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 regulation and Master Plan are adopted as presently constituted, the uses on these two lots will become nonconforming uses. result in a very substantial decrease value of my clients' property, as the non- conforming status of these parcels could be extinguished by sale, fire loss or other contingency. It is our position that to have these two parcels remain in a Hamlet Business Distric~ would be confiscatory. Additionally, it would be discriminatory, as other automobile dealerships in the town have been placed in Business Districts. Volinski Oldsmobile, located on Traveler Street in Southold, is within a This would in the Business District, as is Wells Pontiac, located in Peconic. In fact, an amendment to the proposed Master Plan was made on October 21, 1986 to include another lot used by Wells Pontiac to that Business District. This amendment was labeled a technical correction, indicating that this added lot should have been originally included in that Business District. I will hand up a copy of that letter 261WOODBURY ROADHUNTINGTON.N YII743 42~-2255 692 7383 Page 14 9 i0 11 12 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and just, very briefly, it seems illogical to me to take four lots that are used for one purpose and to keep two of them in a Hamlet Business District, making them nonconforming uses, while having the other two in the General Business District, where they would be conforming uses. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. SMITH: Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Okay. In the rear? Marjorie Smith; Orient. I am speaking for the Orient Association. The Orient Association supports wholeheartedly the North Fork Environmental Council's opposition to the new zoning classification, Marine Business District. In Orient, this new zoning would have an adverse impact in two areas; namely, the Narrow River Marina and Orient Yacht Club. Very strict regulations are needed regarding fueling. These critical environmental areas should have Type 1 Action under SEQRA with the long assessment form, and the same restrictions should be applied to the five-acre zoning in Orient. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] 261WOODBURY ROADHUNTiNGTONN Y. I1743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 15 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1,4. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. NEEFUS: Thank you. In the front? Good afternoon. I am Pamela Neefus, Salt Lake Village, Mattituck. I represent the eighteen households in the Salt Lake Association We have expressed our concerns in writing to the Town Board and have not received a reply. We feel, therefore, that our town officials are insensitive to our concerns regarding our health, safety and economic welfare. While we recognize the need for boating facilities for area residents, we do not believe that restaurants, hotels, etcetera are water-related uses that should be sited on fragile creeks in residential areas. We concur with the recommendations of the Conservation Advisory Council for marina zoning on these creeks. We also support the concerns of our neighbors on the east side of James Creek with regard to hamlet density zoning in sensitive locations. In view of the precarious condition of our creeks and bays, which provide us with so much recreational enjoyment in Southold Town, the Salt Lake Association asks that a full 26 I WOODBURY rOAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421.2255 692 7383 Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. DOUGLASS: environmental impact assessment of all the proposed zoning on our waterways be completed to determine the effects of increased development on our creeks, bays and groundwater supply. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Thank you. Again, anyone else who would like to address the Board, please use the mike in the rear and please line up to it. George, go head. My name is Pat Douglass. I am from Orient. I think we all agree that the Master Plan has problems and limitations as it exists now, but it will not improve with more limitations. I am most concerned with the marine recreation and marine business portion. I have heard that some want to restrict these sections most of all. I have trouble with this for two main reasons. First~ it sends the message that we want the tourist's dollars, but not the tourists. A lot of people are happy to see outsiders' money spent in Southold Town. It helps our economy, but then we complain about the inconvenience, which is natural. 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N y. 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 17 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 We can't have it both ways. By not allowing marinas to supply laundry facilities, sell food and supplies, or even to have facilities for repairs, we send the message to those tourists who come by boat, "Don't bother to come." Boaters actually are ideal guests. They don't use up our parking spaces. But when they travel, they do need some services to attract them. After traveling for several days, it can be necessary to wash clothes and buy supplies. Some boaters would like these facilities where, or near to where, they stay. Also, sometimes boats, like cars and other means of transportation, break down and need repairs. People are not going to come to an area if they know they will not be able to find any assistance. By supplying these facilities, it would not necessarily put a strain on the ecology. Boaters don't want to spoil what they have come to enjoy, the clean water and the quaint villages. My second and major concern is for the residents already here and the ones yet to come. A big attraction to a lot of people who 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y. 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 18 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 Il 12 13 14 15 16 I7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 live here is the access to the water and water sports. By putting limits on marina expansion, we are restricting the residents' ability to use what they moved out here to enjoy. Dock space is already at a premium. Many marinas have waiting lists. More boats are being bought by locals. These lists will be getting longer. Many people want to buy bigger boats as their families grow or their economic situations change. They will need space. Other~ will want to buy their first boat, and they will need space. If existing marinas can't expand or new marinas cannot be built, there won't be the space needed. Also, if some businesses do not have the opportunity to expand, they run the risk of eventually going out of business. This takes away taxes and jobs, both needed for the health of Southold Town. bigger developers, It will also open the area to the only ones who would have the money needed to make buying a large tract of waterfront property feasible. The developmen· of condos or large developments seems to be the biggest nightmare of most people who fight for Page 19 1 2 3 5 7 8 9 10 12 13 15 16 17 ]8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 open space. Southold Town may need to slow down its growth, but we can't afford to stop it altogether. Anything that is stagnant eventuall' dies. None of us wants that to happen, but that can happen if the Master Plan does not allow for expansion. from growing. growth. We cannot stop Southold The Master Plan has to allow for It can't stop time and have Southold Town remain as it is now forever. Even as it is written now, it does not reflect existing conditions. Several rental docks that would be classified as marine recreation under the plans outlined are not even on the map. There are no areas that are currently not used for marine purposes marked to allow growth of existing business or allow for a new one to start. A Master Plan should allow for opportunities for all of Southold's residents, not limit them to a few. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: your prepared statement in? Thank you. Mr. Husing? Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mrs. Douglass, would you mind turning 26l WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421 2255 692 7383 Page 20 1 2 3 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. MAC PHAIL: George Husing. I am speaking on behalf of myself. We own property south of Route 25 between Bay Avenue and Sigbee Road. The present Master Plan calls for two acre zoning. The use of the Sigbee Development, where the properties are fifty feet wide and on the west, the Bay Development, which many of the lots are only forty feet wide; also, on Route 25 adjacent to the property is a business zoning to the east and also on the west, and we request that the zoning be half acre at the most and possible business zoning along Route 25 for a depth of approximately two hundred feet. Thank you. Thank you. In the rear? My name is Katherine MacPhail, and I am speaking for Camp Mineola East. We are just east of James Creek, and I just want to make two comments about the possibility of expanding the Strong Marina area there. That area is built on marsh. It was a complete marsh with litte streams, and it flooded at high tide, then it was filled in with! mud and sand from the creek and gravel on top. It doesn't seem like an area that could stand 261WOODBURY ~OAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421 2255 69~.7383 Page 21 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 I6 17 I8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 many enterprises that cesspools. took water or reauired If you want water there, go back toward the old mainland, intrudes upon the water rights, possibilities of people already living there. you have to and that the water At high tide, especially a strong tide still backs up in the creek enough to flood the cellars back on the mainland, back off the marsh where nothing has been built yet. It is just a very fragile piece of Please speak into the mike. Thank property. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: you. MRS. MAC PHAIL: marinas empties Then, one other thing. There are two on that creek now. When the creek out, it would be nice, of course, if it could go right out to the bay, but on the southwest and west winds, it doesn't go on into the bay, it turns and goes east and comes right along the bathing beach, and if you are bathing there when the high tide has turned and starts out, you can feel it like a slow river moving. We are already getting pollution from the two marinas, and if the marina is expanded Page 22 6 7 9 10 1l 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 more, we are going to have a real health and pleasure problem bathing there on the beach. I just feel that that area is too fragile to have any further expansion of marina activity. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. TIEDKE: Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Thank you. I am Jean Tiedke, and I am speaking for myself and not for my organization, but almost ever since we moved here in 1964, I have been associated, in one way or another, with master plans, and here comes another one. There are some useful and innovative sections in this new zoning code. The separatio] of R-40 from larger parcels in Article 3-A should prove very helpful. The new Article 4, Hamlet Density, should be useful; the affordable housing district is badly needed and cluster development, I think may prove to be the most useful and most innovative article in the entire Code in terms of maintaining open space, as well as a very human and village type of community. This list of definitions that you have also, is a great improvement but, however, it does not include any parks, playgrounds, golf courses, proposed recreation, no areas forever 26 I WOODBURy ROAD HUNT}NGTON N y 11743 421 .2255 692.7383 Page 23 l 2 3 ¢ 5 6 7 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wild or open space; no clue is given as to which areas of the town are already developed or where the well-known centers of the hamlets Fortunately, those of us who live in them know, but a stranger would have no idea. Nothing indicates where vacant lands have already received permission for development, the size of that development or the acreage. The once-considered greenbelt -- remember the greenbelt for Sound to Bay hiking has been completely dropped. There is no scale on that map that was provided to the library. Wetlands and marshes are not indicated, nor were freshwater ponds, stream or vernal ponds. Back in 1969, the acquisition of more waterfront for public recreation in our community was recommended by the then town planner, who also recommended that the valuable salt marshes to the north of Hallock's Bay should be acquired for posterity. Neither recommendation came to pass. Memories like this serve to dampen one's enthusiasm for this new plan. Page 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 However, Article VI, Resort Residential, is extraordinarily permissive and will, indeed, cover the waterfront. Special exceptions abound if water and sewer are available. There is no suggestion anywhere that I could find that we may not get sewers all over town, but they are mentioned in many places. Even with water and sewers, elbow to elbow development of the shorefront would not~ be appropriate for many reasons; and some pollution of bays and creeks will increase with population density whether we have sewers or not, and no matter what precautions are taken. Consider the traffic down our relatively narrow roads, which might require either special traffic control, minibus service from large inland parking areas, or widening of the mostly narrow residential side streets that lead to the water. This is what could happen if the entire waterfront is developed by houses or by business. Given the limited acreage along our waterfront that is still available for development, there is little chance of inadequat, increase in public access to shoreline without Page 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 encroaching on our wetlands. This may all be gobbled up by the Marine Business Zone which, with all its special exceptions, will be advantageous for some, but chaotic along our waterfronts unless great attention and care is given to these problems. Certainly, the year-round public will not benefit to any great extent. The only minimum size restriction I could find refers to transient motels or motels on not less than five acres. There is no indication what size marinas might occupy. Perhaps, we will end up with an array of mini-marinas along our shoreline. Wouldn't that be pretty? We were warned several years ago by Arthur Kunz that shoreline development would squeeze out access to our beaches, and it is indeed occurring. How effective the Agriculture- Conservation District, Article III, will be or could be remains to be seen. Unless farming is encouraged and can remain viable as an income producer, more farms will inevitably be sold for development. In that case, the farmstands would become a thing of the past. Page 26 8 9 10 1I 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 5 6 7 My opinion of the A-C District is that it should stand by itself, severed from A-80, A-120, etcetera. The preservation of our agriculture areas should be paramount in Southold Town. Recreational activities, such as sailing, motorboating and resort living wax and wane with the economic status of the country To enhance our agricultural future, some special inducements might be necessary. More attention could be paid to diversifying crops and, possibly, processing some other markets on a larger done. foods for shipment to scale than is now Because agriculture is so important, the A-C Zones should be set up as follows: 3-A, Agriculture-Conservation District; 3-B, Low Density Conservation District; R-80 to R-400 and 3-C, Low Density Residential, R-40 as it is now. It is high time, also, that we have affordable housing. That is housing that does not break the family bank. I believe such housing should be scattered throughout our communities, a few here and a few there, so these people can feel welcome and a part of our community. We must be able to bring in more 261 WOODBURy ROAD hUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 27 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2] 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 young people and more young families for our future. According to the Code, special exceptions -- I think were formerly variances and that sort of thing, is that correct -- can be granted by the Town Board, the Planning Board or the Zoning Board of Appeals. I think, perhaps, a special committee should be set up, perhaps one member from each of the three Boards mentioned, perhaps two from the public sector and, if necessary, specialists in areas pertaining to special situations could be called in to assist. An informal meeting could precede any formal presentations to the Planning Board, the Zoning Board or the Board of Appeals, in which case money and time on both sides might be saved. The number and variety of special exceptions which are listed in many of the Articles could easily give the impression that almost anything goes if your luck holds out. There are close to fifty exceptions listed, and many appear in several articles duplicated over and over again. The Limited Business District, 261WOODBURY ROADHUNTINGTONNY11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 28 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2~ 24 25 Article VIII, is a good example of a programmed state of confusion which exists in this Code. Permitted uses: everything allowed in the A-C District, plus twelve other multiple uses. In addition, special uses as listed in the A-C Special Use List, 1 through 8. Incredible. And I almost forgot to mention there are also a few accessory uses allowed. Similar permitted uses and special exception uses appear in other articles in various combinations. In every instance, the reason for any given article is so diluted by the range of references to other articles, that most of them, to my mind, make very little sense. There is a limit to our groundwater supply, even though that limit cannot be exactly identified, unless salt intrusion occurs or wells run dry. Our groundwater supply is a movable feast, depending upon whether we are in a drought or in a period of normal or excessive rainfall. The Code does not appear to address this problem. So, we cannot increase our population by X number of people during one or two decades of so-called normal rainfall and then in a period of drought tell half of them WOODBUr¥ ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 29 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 to go away or, perhaps, turn summer people back at the town line. Before adopting this zoning code and map, it might be helpful to review some of the previous planning and groundwater projections and studies. Determine what worked, or did not work, what may have been unnecessary and what was neglected. A few studies come to mind: Raymond & May, Malcolm Pirnie, H2M, New York State Department of Health, the Nassau-Suffolk Regional Planning Board, U.S. Geological Survey, the Northeast-Midwest Coalition and the League of Women Voters Public Opinion Survey. Following such a review of all these and considering comments from this public meeting, as well as other sources of comment, such as the newspapers, perhaps you should set up a new committee consisting of one representative from each Town Board, someone from the CAC and other advisory groups, and a cross-sample from the public; perhaps, five public members, people who have no economic ax to grind. This committee could then sort out 26 I WOODBURY ~OAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421 2255 §92.7383 Page 30 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 the comments, either good or bad, or indifferent, determine whether any adjustments are required and then forge ahead. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. WEISBERGER: Thank you, Jean. In the rear? My name is Freddie Weisberger. I am on the Orient Association Committee for the Preservation of Hallock's Bay, and I would like to address the serious threat to Hallock's Bay that will be caused by the present Marine Business Article. I'd like to quote from just a brief paragraph from the which mentions the Hampton waters and New York Times of last March, closing of several of East says, in The Times, "Quite clearly, the pollution of the Three Mile Harbor originates in the marinas in the boating season.' Later on, the article says, "The East Hampton Supervisor declared an active war beginning with the establishment of an interagency task force, including the Town Planning Board, Appeals Board, environmental director, bay constable, Highway Department, and every agency having anything to do with zoning, boating, storm water runoff, septic 261 WOODBkJRy ROAD HUNTINGTON NY 11743 421 2255 692 7383 Page 31 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 systems for waterfront properties, Supervisor Hope said." Later, in the same article, Councilman Stoutenburgh is quoted. "Mr. Stoutenburgh, a well-known naturalist on the North Fork," saying, "People accused the towns of Door planning, but who knew any better years ago?" The Board will remember over a year ago we had a meeting to discuss the designation of the Hallock's Bay as an environmentally sensitive area. Nothing happened for a period of about six months after that, although the Board expressed its willingness and eagerness to protect the bay and how to make such a margin. Last October, after prodding again from the Association, a meeting was held, and after the meeting I wrote a letter to Councilman Stoutenburgh in which I said that it was the understanding of members of the Orient Association, members who were present at the meeting, that safeguards equal to those which would be obtained by critical designation would be written into the zoning under the new Master 26 I WOODB ~J RY ROAD h UNTINGTON. N y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 32 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Plan. We would is, indeed, the advised as to the regulation. like to be assured that this intent of the Board and to be specific contents of the That letter that I wrote was dated October 27th, and we never received a reply to it, and clearly no such elements are written into the current Master Plan. I would like to suggest that if the Board really is aware and agreed with the great number -- greatest number of its constituents who believe that Hallock's Bay is sensitive and needs to be preserved that, first of all, such requirements, such safeguards, I should say, as would be included in the critical designation should, indeed, be written into the Master Plan as the Board had apparently expressed its intention to do. I was not at that meeting, but that was my understanding of what people felt had, in fact, been said at the meeting. Then, those safeguards should, indeed, be written into the Master Plan. Secondly, that such an article as that addressing Marine Business should be altered 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N.Y 11743 42 I . 2255 692. 7383 Page 33 8 9 10 I1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MS. MOORE: an to take into consideration the different conditions and different situations and the different marinas according to the sensitivity of the creeks and waterways on which they exist. Thirdly, that at the very least, the very minimum, a critical enviromental study should be done of the entire Master Plan. I think it is very important, and the Board certainly must realize that inaction paradoxical~ is not not doing anything. It is definitely doing something, and inaction in this case is severely threatening, in fact insuring the destruction of a very sensitive and very valuabl. waterway such as the creek. Thank you. Good afternoon. attorney with the office of Edson & We represent Ethel Schroeder, who owns station on the Marion. Thank you. I am Patricia Moore, south side of Main Road Bruer. a gas in East The property we ask you to review and incorporate into the Master Plan is a service station which was in existence prior to the zoning. The proper zoning for Mrs. Schroeder's property is a B Zone, which allows a public 26 I WOODBURy ROAD. HU NT~ NGTON Ny 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Y Page 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 I6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 garage or service station by special exception of the Zoning Board of Appeals. This is a reasonable request and consistent with your action on the Finkle property in Orient. Mrs. Schroeder's property, like Mr. Finkle's property, presents a non- conforming, preexisting service station in a currently and proposed Agricultural-Residential Zone. Both properties are small, yet taxed as commercial property. Those properties should have been included in 1957 as Business Zones, and certainly as Business Zone in 1972 when the zoning of Southold Town was revised. Both properties are similarly located on ~4ain Road. In fact, Mrs. Schroeder's property is substantially more commercial than the Finkle property, which is the only B Zone on Main Road in Orient. The Schroeder property is across the road from Skipper's Restaurant, which by the way, was also overlooked, a quarter mile from Helenic Snack Bar and one-half mile from the commercial areas in Greenport. The Board has an opportunity to cure 261WOODBURY ROAD hUNTINGTONN Yl1743 Page 35 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 a nonconforming use by granting Mrs. Schroeder her requested General Business Zone, and in light of the Board's action on the Finkle property, Mrs. Schroeder's request with the Master Plan. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. HALSEY: Thank you. Thank you. In the rear? is consistent Cynthia Halsey. I live at 50 Oaklawn Avenue in the Hamlet of Southold. You have put my property into a new kind of zone; namely, residential-office. I don't think it is suitable for my property or those near me. It is supposed to be a transitional zone between housing and business. There isn't anything to transition to because we are protected on both sides, on one side by the churches, and on the other side by the Town Hall and the church. I think it would be a great idea to put this back into residential. However, if that isn't something you want to do, I think you should define what an office is. Everyone knows what a professional office is, a doctor or a lawyer, and we have had or have them there now. However, what is a business office? 26 I WOODBU/~Y ROAD. HUNT] NGTON N y 11743 421 .2255 69~.7383 Page 36 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 What kind of business, what kind of office? How does it guarantee that it will never become a shop or commercial enterprise? I wrote you last year about this time asking you to please define it. You didn't. I think you should because someday you surely will have to, SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. KELLY: Counsel, and the sooner the better. Thank you. Thank you. In the front? Mr. Supervisor, members of the Board, my name is Christopher Kelly. I am a member of the law firm of Twomey, Latham, Shea & Kelly. I am here on behalf of several parties: the people who appear on the Young's Marina, the North Fork Environmental Council and on behalf of Bayview Realty Corporation, which is an owner of a large tract surrounding Page Cove and the Young's Marina property. I am here today to speak in opposition of the adoption of the proposed zoning code and Master Plan in its current form for the reasons I will explain. I have two experts here today that I would like to have testify as well, Larry Penny, a well-known environmentalist and environmental planner, and Frederick Reuter. If we could work 261 WOODBURY ROAD. hUNTINGTON. Ny 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 this out, I would like to have them speak consecutive to my remarks. Mr. Penny has prepared a written report, which you have before you, in a black cover. I have submitted a legal memorandum, which you also have before you with several exhibits. Mr. Reuter will be working from a draft statement that we can get a final product to you on probably Monday or Tuesday of next week, which has extensive analysis on a site by site basis of the application of the Marine Business and RR District Zone. That's essentially why I am here today to oppose the application of the proposed Marine Business and Resort Residential Zones as they are proposed in the Code. Attached to my memorandum as Exhibits A and B are letters from the Bayview Realty Development Corporation. The first one is a letter from the President opposing the proposed Code because that corporation believes that the present use around Page Cove is low density residence. The second exhibit is a letter authorizing me to appear on their behalf and 261WOODBURy ROADhUNTINGTONN y.~1743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 38 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 I3 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 demonstrates their concern about preserving the residential character of that area. They have, as they indicate in that letter, denied the expansion of the access road that will enable the motel development of the Young's Marina property. In addition, they have offered to dedicate or donate the lands, the underwater lands that they own to a conservancy to protect that area for shellfishing in the future. The two grounds which form the basis for our opposition are the failure of the Board to comply with State Environmental Quality Review Act as we see it and the planning aspect of locating the MB Zoning and RR Zone on our fragile creeks and tidal waterways. I will address the SEQRA issues first. As the Board is probably well aware, the State Environmental Quality Review Act divides all actions which an administrative body can take into Type 1 and Type 2 Actions. of the labels attached to those presumption afforded to them by to their environmental significance. Type 1 Action is an action which, in The significanc~ is the the statue as 261WOODBURY ROADHUNTINGTONNY. iI743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 39 9 10 11 12 13 ~4 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 almost all instances, will require the preparation of Draft Environmental Impact Statements. The reason is that type of action is considered, in most all instances, to have a significant impact on the environment or the potential for that. The State Environmental Quality Review Acts implementing regulations drafted by the Department of Environmental Conservation, lists as Type 1 Actions the adoption by municipalities of its land use plan. So, we have a presumption attaching to the action you are proposing to take, the adoption of a master plan. The presumption is it will have a significant impact on the environment and, thus, the requirement of an environmental impact statement. The only way to do this is with a description of this in an environmental assessme] form, which will explain why the Board is not preparing a draft environmental impact statement and why one is not necessary. We will submit to the Board that the EIS prepared on this project does not give that explanation and does not supply the criteria 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 40 8 9 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 ~5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 for giving what is called a negative declarati, that you have given to this Type 1 Action. Furthermore, I would submit that the negative declaration resolved by this Board on this proposal is inconsistent with the Board's prior action. Specifically, the Board has recognized that several projects similar to the type of projects that this Code would enable in Marine Districts, in the Marine Business and the RR Zone, has recognized that this zoning may have a significant impact on the environment, and may have a negative impact on the environment. The case in point is the marina that I referred to earlier. If any one of those particular sites has a potential for a significant environmental impact given their uses, the special exception uses allowed under your Code, then certainly a combination of those uses would, likewise, have a significant effect or a potential for a significant effect on the environment. This is recognized by counsel to the Board, who is quoted in the Suffolk Times of October 16, 1986. Mr. Tasker said in that article, "My own personal feeling is that the 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y )1743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 41 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 ¢ 6 7 map has changed the zoning of a lot of properties. If an individual came in and asked for a similar zone change, he would have to prepare an environmental impact statement. Just because the Town Board is doing similar changes on maps, how could you say the changes wouldn't have a change on the environment? How could the Town not do something it requires individuals to do?" This apparent inconsistency was picked up by the Suffolk Times Editorial Board who, in last week's edition, pointed out the same problem by stating, "Still we have concluded that organizations like the Southold- Riverhead League of Women Voters and the North Fork Environmental Council are correct in calling for a full environmental impact statement on the Master Plan." As recorded in last week's edition, "The Southold Trustees recently have invoked the state environmental impact statement process for a one house, one lot project on Meadow Lane in Mattituck. If one house on one lot merits environmental review, wouldn't it be prudent to ask the same of a Master Plan affecting every 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON, N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 42 6 7 8 9 10 I1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 creek and every piece of property in Southold Town?" [APPLAUSE] An additional problem with the SEQRA review process that is being conducted by the Board is that it results in an illegal fragmentation of the various projects that could result under the new zoning code. What we have here is a collection of individual zone changes. Any Master Plan that's comprehensive is such a combination. If any one of those projects would have a significant effect on the environment, like I just said, that would require the preparation of an environmental impact statement for any proposition, and that would enable several of those changes; but in addition, even if one standing alone didn't have a significant effect on the environment, the combination of the potential for these types of projects with the synergistic effects, if you will, of these zone changes must be looked at comprehensively as a minimum in a generic environmental impact statement. The fact that some of the more problematic uses in the MB and RR Zones are 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 42~-2255 692.7383 Page 43 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 I5 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 special exception uses rather than permitted uses, does not relieve the Board of its obligation to perform SEQRA review at this stage of the process. I referred in my memorandum to a very recent case in November of 1986, in which an applicant came before the Town of Claverack to propose a mobile home park use, a change of zone to allow that as a special exception use in the change that he was looking for. The Board took impact statements, the road when the had been changed, the position that because the use would be a special exception use in its zone change, that it wasn't required to prepare environmental that that could be done down applicant, after the zoning came into the Zoning Board of Appeals for special exception use. The Court said no, you can't do that. I would like to read you the quote from the Appellate Division, Third Department. It said, "The Board maintains that the environmental review was premature at the rezoning stage inasmuch as a specific project was not involved. The Board points out that a mobile home park could not be established in Page 44 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the rezoned area absent granting of a special exception use and reasons that environmental consideration only application. "We disagree. argument, it is quite involved here was the come into play upon such Contrary to the Board's clear that the rezoning first step in the process of developing the property as a mobile home park. The Board is not restricted to a myopic consideration of a proposed zone change, but should identify at the rezoning change the potential concerns at the very start of the process. "To be remembered is that an essential purpose of SEQRA is to incorporate environmental considerations into the governmental decision- making process at the earliest possible time. Under the circumstances presented, the Board was SEQRA obligated to satisfy the requirements of prior to authorizing the rezoning.' this case versus Hess, is that we blinders on at this new we can look at SEQRA down the road. What I am suggesting and what I think suggests, the name of which is Drew cannot look with zoning change and say First of 261 WOODBUR¥ ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 45 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all, that would undermine the intent of SEQRA. You are passing the buck to a new Board, which you can't do. It may be too late down the road, especially when you are talking about the massive zone changes that you are talking about with your Code. The specific land use planning issues I will leave to my experts. The couple of problems that we see, first of all, is the high density that's available in these two zones through special exception. The densities are very high, and I think the Code fails to recognize the environmental restraints that exist on many of the sites that are proposed for the RR and MB use. As I said earlier, Mr. Reuter will take a look at each of those sites, and has prepared an analysis in chart form of the potential of each of those sites to withstand the uses that will be permitted or permitted by special exception in those two districts. I would like the Board to consider the fact that with these two new districts, the Code would allow approximately fifteen hundred new motel units as a potential growth, and the 26 I WOODBURY ROAD. hUNTINGTON. N y 11743 421-2~55 692.7383 Page 46 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 that much expansion fragile areas. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. KELLY: majority which are along our waterways and creeks. I think the Board should reconsider that. I think it will be ill-advised to allow in these sensitive and Will you kindly sum up, please? Last point. The delegation of powers in the Code. I cited the Anderson in my memorandum. I won't read it to you, but the point is that the Board is giving an awful lot of discretion to the Zoning Board of Appeals that it should keep in its own grasp. It is delegating very many uses without sufficient standards. The standards are vague; they are not are very general, they sufficient to effectivel' control hotel/motel and restaurant development. Likewise, the standards are inconsistent in that the densities talk about the availability of community water and sewer, and at different sections, talk about public water and sewer. Well, public water and sewer have a different connotation and different legal meanin( than community water and sewer. Are we going to require community owned wells? I think that' 261WOODBURY rOAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 47 5 6 7 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 an ambiguity that has to be cleared up in the Code. With that, I would like to conclude and suggest the Board go forward and prepare an environmental impact statement and, in addition, reconsider the density and numerosity of uses in the MB-RR Districts. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: FLOOR: MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Thank you. In the rear? Would it be possible to suggest that the speakers be given a given period of time to speak? There are lots of people present that would like to speak. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: We would like to do that. The idea of a public hearing is to allow people to be heard and to tell us their feelings. We would ask you to limit, if you can, in particular, whe] you have a prepared statement, because these will all become part of the record, and to try to keep it as short as possible out of courtesy to everyone here, but we do want to hear everyone. Go ahead. Mr. Supervisor, members of the Board, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Charles 261WOODBURY ROADHUNTiNGTON. Ny 11743 421-Z255 692.73B3 Page 48 1 2 3 5 6 7 fi 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 Campbell. I live in East Marion, and I am speaking to you as the Acting Director of the Plum Island Animal Disease Center. We are concerned with affordable housing, and in order to support our view, I have prepared a statement which follows: "On behalf of the Plum Island Animal Disease Center of the U.S. Department of Agriculture, I am requesting that the Master Plan of the Town of Southold contain a strong commitment to affordable housing. The shortage of such housing is now having a very serious effect on the ability of people to remain and work in our communities and on other persons who wish to move here to accept jobs. "As you know, the Plum Island Animal Disease Center is one of the larger employers in this area, and has been so for many years. We have long had the desire to employ local people whenever possible, and through the years the majority of our workers have come from this area. However, in order to meet our needs, we have also employed many people from other parts of the country, and they have moved here, bought homes, raised their families and contributed 26 ] WOODBU RY ROAD h U NTINGTON N.y. 11743 42 I . 2255 692. 7383 Page 49 1 2 3 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 much to the local communities. "We now find great difficulty in employing qualified local people or people from outside this area due in large measure to the cost of housing. There simply is not enough affordable housing available so that local young people can stay here and people from outside the area can move here to work. Consequently, many qualified candidates for both blue collar and white collar positions refuse our offers of employment. "Housing costs particularly affect our ability to fill lower paying jobs. However, these costs also affect employment for some of our highest paid positions. For example, candidates for two of our top management positions recently refused our offers of employment after talking with local realtors and learning how much it would cost to live here These candidates, one from the Washington, D.C. area and the other from the Sacramento, California area, would have received salaries equal to or greater than their current salaries, but the high cost of housing here was more than they could afford. 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINOTONN Y. II743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 50 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 "At present, the payroll of this center is over six million dollars per year, mos of it earned by employees who live in Southold Town. Our employees enjoy life in this area and their many talents and economic live. future is shared by contribute support to the communities in which they The greatest concern that I have for the of this Center, and this concern officials at higher levels of our agency, is our inability to attract employees, largely because of the lack of affordable housing. We now have twenty-one vacancies on our staff, some of which we have been trying to fill for over a year. The availability of affordable housing would not only help us in our efforts to fill such vacancies, but also would be of great benefit to many other people and employers. "Our communities are fast becoming ones in which only people at the highest economJ levels can afford to live. Therefore, I strongly urge the officials of Southold Town to include a definite, comprehensive design for affordable housing in the Master Plan. Sincerely, C. H. Campbell, Acting Director." In the front? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. 26 I WOOE) BURy ROAD H UNTI NGTON. N y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 51 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ]8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. PENNY: Larry Penny, Environmental Planner and Ecologist. I grew up on the North Fork, the first twenty-two years here, many in Mattituck, and am well familiar with this North Fork. I lived in the town and now on the South Fork. Ail of my remarks are on the statement that I have before you. I will try to be very brief. Primarily, I am here with respect to the Marine Business and the Resort-Residential Zone. I have just completed a water report for the Town of East Hampton, Master Plan Water Report, and the thing that is very obvious to me, other than the farmlands and the great amoun~ of water, is the fact that you have a very limited groundwater supply, and you really have to come up with a strategy on how you are going to apportion it. One of the problems with this Marine Business Zone and the Resort-Residential Zone, as I see it -- these are located -- of course, it has to be if it is marina, marinas have to be on the water, but the point is that water that goes into %hose facilities is lost to the system. It is not recharged, not shifted back Page 52 2 3 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2] 22 23 24 25 to the recharge area, to the aquifer. So, you have to have a very conservative stance, I would think, when you are thinking about bringing water for, say, hamlet density, affordable housing, other types of fairly dense water uses upland. I find it to be a very poor strategy to talk from the other side of the mouth, to talk of providing a dense use of water on the waterfront. I think that's what you have here on the Marine Business and in the Resort- Residential Zone. It looks like what you are doing is, in order to provide places for boats and get some little used sites active again -- I also examined the sites with Mr. Fred Reuter -- you are piggybacking onto the sites a great multiplicity of uses, and some of these are very intense; motels, restaurants and so forth, and I think that's very unwise. I think it is not unwise to have good marinas. There is certainly a need for boat space; and marinas, themselves, have to be fairly carefully constrained according to standards so that they don't pollute the water. Page 53 1 2 3 5 6 ? 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But when you begin piggybacking on all these other possible uses -- maybe restaurants is a minor one, marine sanitation facilities can be helpful if properly placed and if they are hooked into a sewer, all the better -- but all these other uses that are two zones, it seems to me, problematic. and it loaded piggybacked into these are really I just made some small calculations, seems to me we are talking about fairly sites, on the area of thirty sites, where we can load them up with motels, restaurants and other uses, and we are kicking away out of the Southold water supply something on the order of five million gallons a day. I think right now you are throwing, out of the Greenport system, somewhere on the order of a million gallons a day in the peak use in the summer. You are really throwing a lot of your water value away if you are going to load these. There are special exception uses that allow motels and restaurants. However, the standards are not very clearly written. They are not tied to maintaining water quality, surface water quality. They are not tied to WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 54 1 2 3 6 ? 8 9 IO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not depleting groundwater and so are tied to what written into the code. forth. They I would call vagaries that are ZBA Dart of the proposed zoning I would say before you think in terms of special exception uses like motels, and restaurants and other high water uses in these marina type districts, you would come up with a very definite hard set of criteria other than just, say, five acres minimum parcel size to make sure of only a few sites, and especially, I would like to see only those sites that are hooked right into the sewage treatment facility and do have a bountiful supply of water, and supplying of such water is not going to endanger other sources of water supply to the neighborhoo( or the community, or that particular service district. I really think you should probably come up with a water strategy before you kick back these high water uses into the Marine Business and the Resort-Residential Zone. Secondly, I would point out that your Master Plan has a marvelous water resources section and development section. It says that 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 55 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 you must protect your surface waters and your wetlands, and it also says you have a very thin groundwater lens, something that we all know. It also says that fisheries and tourism are cornerstones of your economic base, along with agriculture. I would find it ironic if in the rush to provide all these intense uses on the shoreline, that the fisheries were destroyed essentially, and they are being destroyed over time because more water is being closed to shellfishing and so forth. If the shellfishing were destroyed and tourism lost, that very powerful magnet, which is the sportsfishing industry and the boating industry, and the boating and clean water and catching of fish -- very, very important -- so, I would hope that you would take another look at that, and I would hope that you would consider very strongly doing an environmental impact statement on this Master Plan or eliminate those uses, one or the other; but if you are going to try to throw those uses in on top of some very good uses, I would say you are going to have to do a very critical environmental study, and the findings then would speak for themselves. 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 56 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 3 5 Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. MARSTON: SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. MARSTON: [APPLAUSE] Thank you. Down in the rear? My name is Fred Marston. Will you spell your last name? M-A-R-S-T-O-N~ Doctor Marston. I have been involved in planning for the last thirty years on the federal, state and local level and, therefore, I would like to say that it is absolutely necessary to have a Master Plan because that's something that without -- it is a tool without which we cannot live. However, it has to be a tool that has to enhance the quality of life in the area in which we want to help. I would just only make -- I am not going into too many details. I have two major points to make. One, is that your Article VI is too vague, and I think that's really the Achilles' heel of the whole plan. It will destroy completely the waterfront. If that's what you want, it can remain as it is. The other thing that I wanted to say, a decision was recently made by the Federal Court in New York City against the New York City Planning Commission that requires an 261WOODBUry ROADHUNTINGTONNY11743 Page 57 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 environmental impact statement on any changes that affect anybody or anything that has to do with zoning, and the whole plan has to do with zoning changes. The decision by the Federal Court was not appealed by the New York City Planning Commission, neither was it advertised in any of the papers. I would just only say that here, in this case, just as a resident of the town, as a person who is very much interested in your plan, I would like to say that before any steps are taken, an environmental impact statement has to be made and really to go -- because any time that you proceed with any changes that affect anybody, it can just only bring to a disaster the whole plan. I would like to say that absolutely necessary for those the plan is people who, maybe don't look at it as a vehicle. Maybe it is not a model in 1987, but it is a vehicle that we SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. REUTER: my name is Frederick H. can start walking with, but it has to be changed Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Thank you. In the front? Mr. Supervisor, members of the Board, Reuter. I am a planning 26 I WOODBURY /~OAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421.2255 692-7383 Page 58 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and zoning consultant. I have a viewpoint I would like to discuss briefly. One is a questio] of the Environmental Assessment. Two is a question of whether or not this is a well- considered comprehensive plan that the zoning ordinance is based on; and three is the issue of the special exception mechanism; then I have a series of five recommendations. First of all, with regard to the Environmental Assessment, I do believe that the results of that Environmental Assessment wouldn't be minimizing environmental impacts which we know too well. They have been discussed here today, with reference to the impact, for instance, on the closure of shellfishing waters and things of that order, the question of the water supply. In addressing this, I am focusing largely on the Resort-Resident and the Marine Business Zone. I'd like to point out here, among other things, that those two zones, according to our survey of those two sites, occupy about four hundred forty acres in this town, all of that being on the critical areas that we have mentioned or that have been mentioned here. 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 1~743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 59 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I think it is, perhaps, a little understated when the intent of the District, in terms of the Resort-Residents District, is to provide resort housing in areas such as the R-40, R-80 and so on Districts, at a level consistent with the low density residential character of those areas. I think it has already been pointed out, probably, that those hotel and motel units are coming in at better than seven units per acre without sewage and water, and coming in at better than ten per acre with public sewer and water. Now, that is not exactly one acre or two acres by any means. Likewise, you have the operation of marinas, conference centers and other uses, which is a little bit vague in a sense, because it is not a defined use to start off with. What is a conference center? There are other little problems there with all of this. The impact on the surface water is one of the things which you indicated that there would be none of. I think this is certainly a questionable remark. The third part of the Environmental Assessment Statement has Page 60 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to do with mitigation measures, and it mentions none of the environmental aspects that have been so prominent to today's discussions. Going to the Comprehensive Plan, which all zoning ordinances are to be based upon, I think there are some very interesting aspects to that. I have done a little research on the uses that are permitted in this ordinance and, for instance, I have concentrated on the tourist accommodations. These are hotel, motels, they are transient and resort, and breakfast. comparing them, differences. For instance, the RR District provides that such a hotel/motel must have not only a five acre site, but that the density would vary with the availability of sewer and water or nonavailability of it. Beyond that, there is a concern for noise expressed in that particular part of the regulation and, also, both kinds; also bed As you will find when you start there are some unique a concern for lights. Now, interestingly enough, get to the Marine Business District, concern we have is with the large size, five acre site again, and the second thing, the when you the only 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N. Y 11743 421-2255 692.7303 Page 61 6 7 9 10 I1 12 15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 requirement is, according to the text of the district, that that particular use must have public sewer and water. Now, curiously enough, once more, when you get to the Hamlet District and the Business District, you find that they refer back to the Resort-Residents. They don't refer back to the Marine Business, which is presumably a less restrictive zone according to all of this. The point then gets to be what is all of this coming to? We look over to the bulk table and we find out that in the Marine Business District there is a provision for community water and sewer, and there is a provision for a density on the hotels and motels at four thousand square foot for a site which has those again, contrary to the text of the district -- also, a provision for six thousand without it. So, there is a confusion not only of public versus community, but versus just simply water and sewer, or a confusion in terms of whether it is or is not permitted without water and sewer in that particular Marine Business District Actually, in boiling it down, there are several other points to be involved here, but Page 62 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 I5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I have that in the report. When you boil it down, as far as a well-considered plan here, there is enough confusion in this zoning ordinance to indicate it has been patched several times since its original inception when Raymond, Parrish, Pine bid it, and as a result, I think you are going to find that is, in itself a very inconsistent document in some areas. Another aspect to that particular concern is the question of alternative sites for the marine uses, and I think if you were to go back to that ordinance, you would find that in the LIO and in the LI District, you are permitting boatyards and, also, things that are permitted in the Marine Business District. These are upland at that point. I think these are proper and good considerations. The point of all that is, very simply, that you do have a scarce commodity or a scarce resource in terms of the waterfront. You cannot just simply locate intensive uses anywhere on the waterfront to of the waterfront be scarce. start off with and despite all that you have, it is going to Now, the problem then gets to be if 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421. 2255 692.7383 Page 63 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we can move some of the uses that are only marginally related to water, these are still marine, but could be in upland areas, storage, for instance, up into the LI restaurants waterfronts, Now, I might point out here characteristics of the bay is valuable piece of real estate like or LIO. There are other uses, such as the and motels, which are appearing on which are suitable for marinas. that one of the that the most on the water is for residential. You might remember hearing about condominiumization here on the waterfront. Finally, special exception uses. I think the point I would like to make there is you have opened up Pandora's Box in terms of making everything a special exception use. That depends not on legislation discrimination, but it depends upon administrative discrimination, which your Zoning Board of Appeals can make. The fact of the matter is that the standards all not specific throughout are very, very general, at all. Let me say then, I very precarious position. My recommendations think that is a are, briefly, at 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-Z255 692 7383 Page 64 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2¢ 25 the minimum, the whole business of the tourist accommodations ought to be reviewed and put into some kind of order, which I don't believe you will closely. public water, density. find it in now if you look at it That's including the question of and sewer and the lot sizes and The second point is, I think you should restudy the environmental characteristics of your waterfront. Much of this was done in the Raymond, Parrish, Pine and Weber study; but they, also, had two districts. They realized there was a difference between the waterfront. I think you should, at this point, go back and spell out the waterfront as to what they can actually absorb, and then develop a system of assigning uses that they can absorb. Regarding the waterfront district. It seems to me when you find out you are going to be able to exercise your legislative discrimination, and it ought to be three and possibly four at least districts, so that you can be more discreet on a legislative level. Then, at that point, I would take out the water enhanced uses because it, I think, places Page 65 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 the biggest demands, and the question of what kind of economy you're going to have and so on in the future, depends upon that waterfront bein~ used for boats, not simply for housing people. helps in terms of getting waterfront That, also, access. The fourth point is that I think the question of the special exception uses -- those that are left in the ordinance -- ought to be more specifically dealt with. That is to say, there are standards as to how much water space you need for how much land space and marinas. You are going to have that for special exception use, the question of how you are going to deal with parking. The question of, in terms of multiple uses, as to the assignment of space not only on the land, but on the water for each of those uses, so you don't have the piggybacking that you have here. There has to be some sort of standard as to how you are going to cluster nonresidential development. The president of a residential development made quite a big point of what you are going to count and what you are not going to count. 261WOODBURy ROAO HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 66 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 In the case of Marine Business, it includes a considerable wetlands area that coul( conceivably be measured for yield, and then you can say, the five would be "We will have all those motel units on acres down on the harbor area." That a disaster, in my opinion, not only for the wetlands, but also for the community around it. Finally, I think the evidence here is that a generic environmental impact statement ought to be prepared for this. One of the reasons is that the ordinance does not include, at the present, sufficient parameters and we have, what is called in environmental impact terms, is called segmenting. You are putting off for the future what you can do in the way of reviewing it. in effect, for these uses. I That means you are aborting it, the accumulative effect of all of think your burden would be much easier, much better if you had this impact SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. In the rear? to speak in the rear? MRS. and your staff people would make out statement. Anyone like Okay, down in front? WACKER: Ronnie Wacker; Nassau Point. I am Page 67 ! 2 3 $ 6 ? 8 9 lO 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 2] 22 23; 24 25 speaking for the League of Women Voters. Thank you for allowing the League to comment. We recognize and appreciate that you have put a great deal of thought into preparation of the Master Plan and we would like to offer our comments in a spirit of helpfulness. As you know, the League has asked the Town Board for an environmental quality review of the proposed zoning changes. The Board has said there is no need for a review because, it said, there will be no adverse environmental effects. How can you know this without an environmental study? The League strongly recommends a full environmental review be conducted to determine all the effects of the proposed zoning changes on the town's residents and its natural resources which are, incidentally, the single most significant factor in the town's economic base. We believe that the people of Southold Town have a right to know the impact of further development on the quality and Town quantity of their drinking water. They have a right to know how the 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON.N y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 68 8 9 I0 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 proposes to assure water for all current residents as well as those who will come with further development. They have a right to know how the proposed changes will affect their taxes. And, speaking of money, we have a right to know what the economic impact will be and other town services needed for an expanded population. And we have a right to know the effect of increased shoreline development on our recreational waters and our fishing industry. The new state coastal zone maps show that more than fifty percent of this town is in the environmentally fragile coastal town area. What would be an adequate zoning arrangement for an inland town up west would sink this fragile end of the island. This, in general, is our major beef of the proposed Master Plan -- the lack of an environmental impact study. But we do have a few suggestions about individual items: We are particularly opposed to hamlet density zoning in areas that are already overdeveloped or whose drinking water supply or surface waters are in jeopardy. We refer 26 I WOODBURy ROAD. HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 69 9 10 11 12 15 16 17 18 19 2O 22 23 24 25 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 specifically to the hamlets of Mattituck, New Suffolk and Orient. We object to marine business zoning in those creeks mentioned by the Conservation Advisory Council. We support the C.A.C.'s proposal to rewrite the zoning to address the boating needs of residents, the economic needs of marina owners as well as the needs for unpolluted water for recreation and for our baymen's livelihood. We should like to ask, also, why no areas have been designated for parks, bicycle paths or walking trails? You know, as time goes by, we will have more signs that say "No trespassing." Where are people, especially children, to go if they are constantly confronted by warnings, You." Park. "Keep Out - This Means Even paved-over New York City has Central The State Environmental Quality Review process can bring all this to the attention of the public, giving the townspeople a chance to look at the future of Southold Town realistically, knowing ahead of time what to expect. In this way we can truly plan and 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 70 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 avoid the mistakes of the towns to the west. The League continues to have faith in the political process. We sincerely hope that, as a result of these hearings today, the Town Board will recognize that in failing to use the SEQRA process, they will be remiss in protecting the general welfare of the people of Southold Town and their own goals as stated in the Master Plan: "To provide opportunities for growth compatible with the existing sensitive environment of the community and its historic heritage." Fortunately, still time to change. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. OLIVA: there is [APPLAUSE] Anyone in the rear? Ruth? Ruth Oliva; President, North Fork Environmental Council. The zoning map does not identify parks, beaches, open space, woodlands or wetlands; nor have any proposed expansion of these facilities, or the acquisition of new properties. Public lands, such as state, county or town, have not been identified. We recommend that Article XXII, Natural Features, be incorporated into the zoning amendments, such as the one proposed by the Conservation 261WOODBURY ROADHUNTiNGTON. N YI1743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 71 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 Advisory Council. The goals and objectives of the Master Plan are at odds with the proposed zoning map. The obvious inconsistencies are, number one, the Agricultural Conservation District, as it is proposed, will not achieve the goals set for it in the plan. It allows for two acre zoning and many accessory uses, as in a standard two acre zone. In fact, it is almost exactly like the two acre zone. In order to preserve the quality of our water, this area is the source of much of our deep recharge zones. The zoning of this district must be stringent enough to prevent those land uses that are known to contaminate the groundwater. However, this district makes no provision whatsoever for either protecting recharge surface areas from being paved over or preventing the land uses that will pollute the groundwater; such as indiscriminate use of pesticides or fertilizers. At the least, the Agricultural Conservation District should aim to preserve tha greatest amount of prime farmland and recharge 261WOODBURy rOAD HUNTINGTON N y 117~3 421-2255 692.7383 Page 72 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 i8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 areas. It can do this by limiting density to one dwelling unit per twenty-five acres, and specifying acceptable land use practices that will not pollute the groundwater. This approach necessarily requires some mechanism for the transferring of development rights. Ail this should be incorporated into the Master Plan and the zoning map. Number two, businesses. One of the stated goals on the Master Plan was to contain business development within the designated hamlets. The idea behind this was to preserve the open space between the hamlets and, ultimately, preserve the economic vitality of the existing business district. However, the proposed zoning map shows business zones within residential zones with such consistency as to contradict the Master Plan. In effect, the proposed zoning map is, in many ways, nothing more than a legitimization of the status quo. What the zoning map should show is the land use pattern that would best serve the community in the future, not what exists now. 261 WOODBUry ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421'225~ 692 7383 Page 73 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Clearly, if the Master Plan feels that, in the long run, future business development should be concentrated in the hamlet areas, then any business use in existence that is outside the Hamlet Business District now should remain a legal nonconforming use. Hamlet density. As defined, the hamle density should be in a one-quarter to one-half mile radius of the hamlets, yet we see hamlet density all over the map. Affordable hamlet density should have enough land to set aside to accommodate the transfer of development rights forthcoming from the Agricultural Conservation District. Hamlet density and affordable density should be redefined in the summary. Marine business. You are undoubtedly aware the town trustees have been working hard to upgrade the water quality in our creeks. So far, their efforts have resulted in the opening of Mill and Mattituck Creeks. These hard-earned gains may be lost of the Marine Business District is adopted as defined in the proposed zoning amendments because the district allows for water intensive uses in the areas 26 I WOODbURy rOAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 74 8 lO ~2 ]3 ]5 ]6 ]? 20 2] 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 that are most fragile and susceptible to damage, such as saltwater intrusion; such as pollution of wetlands and creek areas, and erosion. The district allows for the location of potential sources of pollution on the creeks; for example, gasoline and diesel fuel tanks, cesspools for restaurants and hotels. The proposed ordinance does not provid( means whereby any of the town's review agencies can mitigate the known environmental hazards of these uses. For instance, there should be requirements for fuel spill containment, fuel tank construction, and location and maintenance; holding tanks, siting of cesspools. Furthermore, the zoning map allows these marine business locations in the most fragile portions of the creek ecosystems; namely, in the middle or head of the creeks rather than the mouths. The North Fork Environmental Council believes that the marine business designation should be allowed, but only at the mouths of creeks or along the bay, where the inevitable environmental impacts can at least be mitigated. 26 I WOODBURy ROAD. HU NTI NGTON Ny 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 75 8 9 10 I1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 At the least, you are condemning the future of shellfishing in the town. The North Fork Environmental Council strongly recommends that the Town Board declare a positive declaration of the SEQRA process and a DEIS be prepared. We would recommend a special zone classification be designated for marinas on our creeks using the proposed Marine-Recreational Zone submitted by the Conservation Advisory Council with modifications. We are not against marinas, per se. Number five is two acre zoning enough along our coastline to prevent a break into the freshwater-saltwater interface, such as the Norris property? Mandatory clustering should be included in subdivision regulations for any subdivision located near bluffs, beaches or wetlands. This would have less impact on the water supplies in those areas. Perhaps, the open space could be dedicated to the Town for park or beach access. Lastly, it is our understanding, at a meeting of Orient landowners and members of thc 261WOODBURy ROAD hUNTINGTON N.y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 Page 76 Town Board, that the same criteria applied to the New York State Critical Environmental Area designation would be incorporated into the five acre zoning in Orient without the actual designations of a CEA. The Council requests that this be done. In conclusion, the North Fork Environmental urges the Town Board to take all of our recommendations into consideration. We especially wish to note that the N.F.E.C.'s Marine Business recommendations should be incorporated. As it stands now, the Marine Business Zoning is a total disaster for Southold Town. The time to make changes in the Master Plan is now, rather than as amendments at some future date. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] I was aksed to present petitions from Mr. Bob Leighton, who says, "I would like to go on record as being strongly opposed to the proposed rezoning of the land along James Creek in Mattituck from Residential to Marine Business. This is a choice residential area, and further commercialization would inevitably lead to an 261WOODBURY rOAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 77 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 increase in water pollution, not to mention depreciation of the scenic values enjoyed by homeowners, boaters and the people who enjoy use of the public park located on the creek. "I have in my possession, and will present to the Town Board at the next meeting, three hundred eighty-seven signatures to the petition requesting that the zoning change not be made. I heartily join my voice, as a homeowner on the Creek, to this request. Very truly yours, Robert A. Leighton." Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. I would just like to MRS. RAFFERTY: say there is an old golfer in Cutchogue, who has been complaining about the Master Plan, and seeded golf course was not He wanted it Par 5. complaining that the upzoned from Par 3. [LAUGHTER] We will Island. Island is part of Southold Town. you here. Thank you very much. sent in two letters, or one from the see if we can address him. Mrs. Rafferty here is from Fisher's Most people don't realize Fisher's We welcome I have already 261WOODBU~y ROADHUNT~NGTONN YI1743 42~-2255 692.7383 Page 78 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 Conservancy and one a personal letter, but I just wanted to add my personal comment that why not consider a separate article in your Master Plan for islands and areas of unusual environmental sensitivity? We, at Fisher's Island, for example, were put under Class 1 of unusual environmental sensitivity by the State DEC. There is great confusion in the new plan and hardship for your people in trying to assess environmental problems on the Islands, as well as hardship for our residents, who could build first and then ask for permits of the DEC after the fact. How can you give us time to figure out how our water aquifer works and how to inform all our people of the regulations for wetlands, fisheries, bird habitats and coastal management? Can you clarify the articles? My other thought is that I agree with Jean Tiedke on the confusion on the A-C Section where the residential zoning comes in. What protection do we have? For example, if I read it correctly, you can put three accessory uses on an R-80 piece of land even if we don't have a septic tank system and the water system Page 79 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 i5 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 available for that. We are a self-surviving island, and it makes it very difficult to come over here to borrow a cup of water. If it would be helpful to have an environmental impact statement, Fisher's Island Conservancy would be in favor of it. Thank you very much. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: the Board. MRS. TUTHILL: SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. BERKS: Okay. In the rear, you may address Thank you, Mr. Murphy. I am Mary Tuthill of Cutchogue; president of the Cutchogue- New Suffolk Historical Council. Fort Corchaug is located on Downs Creek and is already on the National Register. The Council would like to see it saved. It is the only remaining indian site of this type on the northeastern seaboard. Doctor Ralph Solecki has done extensive work on the fort site, and feels ten acres should be set aside for its preservation. Please help us save it. Thank you very much. Thank you. In the front? My name is Dorothy Berks. I live in Orient, and I am representing Mike Connelly. WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y. ~1743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 80 8 9 ]0 1] ]2 15 ]? ]8 19 20 2] 22 23 25 ] 2 3 5 6 7 The Master Plan for Southold Town has taken a lot of time and effort by this Board, and here we are, those of us who can be here in the middle of winter, to voice our opinions of a Master Plan, which you must agreed is flawed. Does this Board truly believe it should pass the plan with its present imperfections, and that those imperfections will be corrected at a future date? We're talking about a Master Plan thai spans three Town Boards, took more than two years to be contracted for, and four and one-ha[ years to come to this point of incompletion. A full draft environmental impact statement should have been prepared before this hearing was called. This and other problem areas have been identified by the most responsiw and responsible segment of your voting constituency; people who have volunteered much personal time and concern studying the plan, which needs work, attention to these issues. again today. It remains for you to respond and they have called your They will do so to those 261 WOODBURY ROADHUNTINGTONN yI[743 421 2255 692 7383 Page 81 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 matters that need correction before the fact, and present us with a legally sound document, which will not jeopardize the healthy growth of Southold Town. Before you vote on it, please take whatever extra time may be necessary to give us a Master Plan you won't have to apologize for in the future. In this seaside community, it's common knowledge that you plug the leaks before you put the boat into the water. I'd like to add a postscript to this. When I started on line here, there were about three hundred people in the room, and not all of them have spoken or will speak. I think there may be a third of that now, but I would like to request for this afternoon's session and again for tonight, a show of hands to see how many people are for the passage of the Master Plan as it now stands. That includes a rough count of how many are here. Is that possible, Frank? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: FLOOR: MRS. BERKS: it at a peak time tonight where We will do it right now. There ain't enough people here now. I would ask, more particularly, to do the count will 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNT}NGTON N Y 11743 421 2255 692 7383 Page 82 ! 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 Il 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 be more significant. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. BERKS: SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. BERKS: COUNCII2ViAN SCHONDEBARE: SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. BERKS: No, we will not count, no. They are walking out by the dozens. We are here to get your input. Are you doing it or am I doing it? We are not doing it. No. Can you do it tonight at the hearing? I think the show of hands would be significant. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: You can ask for a show of hands right now while you are speaking. MRS. BERKS: SUPERVISOR MURPHY: from you, Plan. MRS. BERKS: SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. STRONG: I would like to know who in the room believes that the Master Plan should be passed as is? Mrs. Berks, we are here to take input to hear your comments on the Master Please, will you give us your input? That's it. Thank you very much. My name is David Strong, and I and my family have resided in the Town of Mattituck for over thirty years. I documented my comments in writing to the Board on January 22nd, so I would like to just direct these in general. 26 ) WOODB(JRY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 83 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 One, I raised my hand to urge the passage of the Master Plan as proposed with the necessary changes to correct the inequities. We have to have some sort of plan to direct the growth of this town. As it pertains to the Marine Business District in particular, I am sure you are all aware that we are losing marinas. We need more marinas. They provide an access for jobs to our community and, perhaps, if we would encourage them, the people who work in the town could afford housing instead of chasing them out of the town. I think it is time for the Town to stand up and say either we are for this or we are not. To change the law again and give anything less than is being proposed for Marine Districts, would not be a viable economic acceptable situation for the marina owRer. In today's high land value areas, the property is worth more as residential. It would not allow us to carry our overhead. I feel, at present, there is provision in there to take care of the controversial restaurant/motel issue 26I WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 84 2 3 ¢ 5 6 7 8 9 10 il 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Also, we are the most permitted group of businesses on the North Fork today. Everything we have done has to be permitted. Everything has to be permitted at least a dozen times. I came here this afternoon to say that I, personally, am a little upset about the remarks going around that anyone who would have a marina would be at odds with the environment and would knowingly despoil that environment. It would seem to me logic would dictate that those of us who make a living -- and I have and all my family all my life -- would be the first ones who would want to protect and preserve the environment. We want to do that. We want to work with the Town. I think the Town has recognized we need marinas. It is the cornerstone of our tourism industry. They need to be controlled and directed properly, and I think that can be done. So, I am in favor of its passage as it has been written. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: mike? MRS. LASKOWSKI: Thank you. Anyone like to speak up at the front I am Judy Laskowski. I would like 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 85 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 I1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 to address the Board on the zoning change on the corner of Depot Lane. America was settled and expanded by homesteaders, people of foreign lands, to meet the needs of their families. Our needs are no longer so basic as survival, but land and realty still provide the means for meeting them. On March 23, 1982, the Town Board voted unanimously to give the corner of Depot Lane business zoning. On the new Master Plan the zone has changed to residential or business by existing use. In other words, it must remain a health club and professional center. If business fails, we cannot change our type of business to recoup our investment. If our facility burns down, we can only build fifty percent of what presently exists. As parents, we planned and invested for the future of our children, but with no guarantee that they will live to have a future. Projected family needs may change. However, residential zoning and business propert does not allow for change. They will not give u the flexibility needed to meet the needs of our surviving children. 261 WOODBURy ROADHUNTINGTONNYl~743 421-2255 69~ 5 6 7 8 9 ~0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 4 Page 86 Not only is the ability to change the use of the building lost, but the resale value is lost as well. In either case, the considerable amount of money invested will never develop its investment potential because all options have been taken away. As protectors of the growth and development of Southold Town, what have you gained for the town by taking away our zoning? Have we not developed the property in a manner consistent with the architecture and heritage of the community? Have we not, also, preserved the house and barn as historical landmarks? Has the barn, itself, not been donated to the Cutchogue Historical Society for use as a small museum? May I remind you that this property was not developed by one person. It was not developed -- the change in zoning does not affect one person. The property in question was planned and built to provide for the future of the family. We are meeting the needs therefore providing professional service and a recreational facility needed in the Town of 261 WOODBUF) y ROAD. HUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 421-Z255 692.7383 Page 87 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. KREN: Southold. planning, Today, after five years of concerted effort and substantial financial commitments, the Southold Town Board, which requires zoning change for initiation of the project, is now taking the zoning away. In just a period of five years the potential of our investment was given and taken away. What was built for our children's future will no longer provide for their future with residential zoning To develop a viable Master Plan is an important undertaking for the Board of Southold Town. With all due respect to the Board and the complexity of the task at hand, I would ask you to consider this. If the investment were your own and the family in question your own, would you be satisfied that the zoning change would best provide for your future. I would then ask that our zoning be reconsidered and remain business as it presently exists. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] My name is Peter Kren. I am here as President of the Mattituck Chamber of Commerce. We have a prepared statement here, but I would 261WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTiNGTON N y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 88 10 11 12 13 14 15 i6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 like to read only part of it. "The members and directors of the Mattituck Chamber of Commerce believe that advantages of an approved Master Plan for Southold Town far outweigh the disadvantages of the present Town Codes. Therefore, we strongly urge you to adopt the Master Plan for Southold Town as now written." Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. In the front? MR. GOODALE: Members of the Town Board, my name is Andrew E. Goodale, and I have resided since 1920 at New Suffolk, New York, and am an attorney with an office in Mattituck. For several years I was employed in Capital Budget Project with the City of New York with projected cost of several million dollars. I represent only myself and my family. This is a local law, as you well know, to amend the Southold Town Code and zoning map; Recommendations Master Plan Update as prepared by the Planning Board. While the press notification only gives the numbers of the articles, I would like to indulge your patience and just go over it very briefly with whatever 261 WOODBURY rOAD HUNT~NGTON N Y I 1743 421 -2255 692.7383 Page 89 10 I1 12 I3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 comments I have which are my own. After four years of effort and seventy thousand dollars, as press, the prima facie issue in the recommendations? A-1. reported by the is what is involved This is referring to The enactment by the New York State Legislature is the law that delegates authority to counties, towns and localities to create boards to implement state authority, consistent with the health, safety and welfare of the electorate. This is all in Town Law 261-267 in part. Now, under that mandate, the Town Board delegates the planning function, but never the responsibility, that remains with the Supervisor: At this point, Parkinson's Law to the effect that bureaucracy tends to expand in inverse proportion to need, occurs. For example a question as to need to obtain a building permit, or to erect a sign, or a fence over six feet in the rear yard and extending into the side yard invites surveys, plans, samples, etcetera, with confrontation between the community, activists, civic groups, developers 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 90 9 10 11 12 13 14 I5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ! 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and the press, among others. What can be observed from a public hearing from the usual taxpayer who may avoid controversial issues. The opposing groups are enabled to respond on the theory of whose ox is about to be gored. The remedies to an aggrieved party are to join a pressure group, quiet down and shut up, initiate a Supreme Court 7A proceeding after an adverse decision. The update presented at this hearing consists of thirty articles covering one hundred nine pages of closely spaced material on all sections of existing and new zoning with new matter underlined and deletions bracketed. Pages 1 through 16 are principally new items on restrictions and conditions to be met. Pages 17 to 23 concern additional restrictions on existing zoning; also includes bulk area and parking requirements. The particular application for hamlet density must conform. The question becomes whether bed and breakfast residences must also conform, and requires research or an attorney. Pages 24 to 34 concern affordable Page 91 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 housing. The advancement of this program, in my opinion, creates a legal quagmire and would need an enlarged staff to review even that which is intended, let alone what is approved. See Section 100-55, at Pages 26 through 29. Pages 35 to 45, Article VII, Residential (RO) District; Article VIII, Limited Business District, which rewrites the zoning code with conditional limitations on offices and commercial zoning. No comment is offered since a clearer presentation is recommended. Pages 46 to 47, Article XII, Marine Business District (MB), no comment is offered. You probably have enough flak generated on that particular score that can keep you occupied, shall we say, for several weeks. Page 48 to 70, Article XII, Light Industrial Park, Light Industrial District, XIV; Article XV, Density and Bulk; Parking Schedules, Article XVIII, Cluster Development; Article XIX, Parking and Loading Area with denominated space per specifications for individual business. This is something that I think should 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTONN Y. Ii743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 92 9 i0 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 invite your comment because it has to do with the bed and breakfast and various other places that have parking. This is a new and complex article, particularly Subdivisions B to Q, that may preclude conformance or enforcement. It would appear to me that only a wealthy or corporate developer can afford the consultant to review the many restrictions contained in the schedules. Should there be a conflict of interest in private consultation while an employee of Southold Town, to be resolved by application of Articles I to IV of this present Town Code, which has to do with ethics? Pages 71 to 78, Article XX. These are new amendments and principally relate to fees on signs, their composition and the many restrictions or features of elimination. basic question arises as to the proposal to The permit a sign under the health, welfare and safety of delegated regulations for the communit~ and also lot limits under raising fees as revenue as a noncriminal regulation is permissable. We, of course, know, many people do~ Page 93 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 25 that a regulation is either criminal or it is civil. These are fundraising -- rather, these are revenue-raising propositions that basically relate to the amount of fees that come in. The proposition of signs must be reconciled to the health, safety and welfare of the electorate. Obviously, this is a result to limit signs. The picture of what do you want in the year 2001 appeared on the front page of the Suffolk Times, November 13, 1986. The peaceful farm is, Cutchogue. It is and nursery shop. in reality, along Route 25, a adjacent to a retail flower A zoning variance is required Since the whole area of the King Kulle~ Supermarket is under scrutiny for business purposes, what is the relevance of a picture of the Riverhead Business Shopping Center signs on Route 58? Or, for example, the City of New York is permitting for the payment of fees, signs that are illuminated on high rise building~ in Times Square as a tourist attraction. In the subject proposal, the granting of approval is conditioned by the Planning Board, Board of Appeals, and the Building Inspector among others. A violation of this section is purely civil, 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 94 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 unless it is coupled to a criminal sanction, which appears unlikely without extensive research. Article XXI, Landscaping, Screening and Buffer Regulations. If humor is injected at this point, Section 100-214, Paragraphs A to C, covers everything from nude bathing at home to the specifications of the kinds of trees permitted in off-street parking lots. In my opinion, this is an example of unwarranted intrusion upon the constitutional rights of a private person. Supplementary Regulations. This is new Article XXIII. When the existing Southold Code functions effectively and is not broken, experience tells us don't fix it. But we turn to the so-called innovative approach in other towns for a new approach. What is done in Medford, New Jersey to initiate environmental and planning regulations with their Master Plan may or may not be applicable to the North Fork. What about other supplementary regulations? The injection of Town Law 280-A as incorporated from the text in that law, can have entirely different impact on a code 261 WOODBURY ROAD hUNTINGTON N Y. 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 95 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Il 12 13 I4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 regulation. It appears that the redeeming section of 100-239C Berms, Paragraph C 2-(5) is that approval granted upon failure of the Planning Board to act within twenty days. This is the only redeeming feature that I can see, that if the Planning Board doesn't act within twenty days, you have an out as far as berms are concerned. Article XXIV, Nonconforming Uses and Buildings, Section 100-240, the purpose states a post facto application of all buildings and uses that become nonconforming by any subsequent amendment to this chapter pending a thorough review by competent authority, the matter seems to rest on a conflict of law. Article XXV, Site Plan Approval, Section 100-252, Objectives. "Public health, safety and welfare, the comfort and convenience of the public in general, etcetera," raises the issue as to the comfort and convenience being within the parameters of health, safety and welfare as delegating by law to the Southold Town Board. Article XXVI, which is new, no comment at this time. 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 4~1-2255 692.7383 Page 96 8 9 10 11 12 I3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 Article XII, now Article XXVII, Board of Appeals; no comment. Article XIV, now renumbered Article XXVIII, Administration and Enforcement, which was formerly 100-144, now 100-284, Certificate of Occupancy. Any occupancy or use of a building reconstructured, restored, structurally altered, etcetera, a seller or buyer of such structure of necessity needs the certificate. Complications can result if not acquired. For example, the plus factors in affordable housing are to be considered against the delay of obtaining surveys, testing of domestic water, meeting building requirements, parking and a host of others. It is, therefore, requested that these comments, which only reflect my views at the invitation of the Planning Board, be taken from a public spirited citizen; that same be filed with the Board for review and consideration by the Board of Supervisors. As appointed and elected representatiw of the people, a great responsibility rests. It may well be that a referendum by the people is a solution, or a grandfather clause to permit 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 421-2255 692 73~33 Page 97 8 9 I0 ll 12 13 1¢ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. HOLZAPFEL: a gradual introduction of a vast and tangled web of regulation. Taxes are rising perceptibly. Revenues are also increasing by the additions of new housing and business that accrues. To assess the economics of the situation, will the North Fork become the bedroom of the metropolita] communities? I think not. Will the stable retired families, like my own, pick up the marbles and go elsewhere? Who will keep the shop? A rational approach to comprehensive zoning should help. The world will not end. Only the grave cures all disabilities. I think you for your attention. [APPLAUSE] Thank you. In the rear? Yes? John Holzapfel. I live in Southold, and I am a member of the Town Conservation Advisory Council. I am here to speak for them. Southold Town Conservation Advisory Council recommends the inclusion of the Marine Recreational Zone and the protection of natural features in the zoning law in order to insure the economic and environmental health of the Town of Southold. Page 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Protection of the tidal wetlands and other natural features is natural and reasonable based on economical knowledge backed by scientific data. The purpose of the Marine Recreational Zone is to protect the fragile areas, which is presently the marinas. These areas should not be rezoned Marine Business, which allows commercial uses which are not water-dependent. A proposed zone change to Marine Business would encourage the commercial development of highly ecological sensitive locations. The Conservation Advisory Council has vitally altered our original recommendations submitted to the Town Board in October after meeting with marina owners. We have deleted from uses not permitte~ Numbers 1 and 6, which states boat repair facilities and retail and accessory or equipment and place these under Section C, uses permitted by special exception. Existing marina facilities should be grandfathered and allowed to continue with their existing activities, and the rest of the statement I think you already have, and I am not 261W OODbURy rOAD HUNT~NGTONN y 11743 4Zl-2255 692.7383 Page 99 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the implementation of adverse environmental resources. going to just read that out. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Franklin Bear? MR. BEAR: I would like to say, before I read my statement, that I don't pretend to be a professional planner, but I have had experience in the planning field for nine years as a member of the Nassau County Planning Board, seven of those years as Chairman. I was on the Nassau-Suffolk Regional Planning Board at the time the regional plan was adopted, and I have been involved in other aspects of planning, including back in about 1978, I think it was, putting together the present town plan that was adopted in 1982, which happened to be in various segments in the files, but never put together as one document. That, also, was adopted at that time. I have been thinking more about the proposed Master Plan since the January 22nd hearing that was postponed because of snow. The more I think, the more I am concerned about how this plan would have impact on our natural 261WOODBURY ~OAD hUNTiNGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 100 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Foremost among accelerated pollution of our and resort hotels and motels, these would be creeks if transient beach, yacht and boat clubs, plants are allowed as special exceptions Marine Business Zones. They would cause restaurants and fish processing in serious contamination of Hallock's Bay, Mattituck, James Wickham and Town Creeks, Broadwater Cove and the pond at Sage Boulevard. Bay waters also will be affected. In addition, pumpage of water from the shallowest rims of our sole source drinking water table, plus contamination, can be catastrophic. These certainly are serious environmental problems. This Town Board should recognize this fact and act now to follow the SEQRA process required by law. But that is not the only serious environmental impact that can result from the Master Plan as is. Another source could be an airport. How did provision for an airport as a permitted special exception get into the LIO Zone anyway? Hasn't a vast majority of Southold citizens spoken out against that airport -- two-thirds according to a North Fork Environmental Council poll -- even fifteen to 261WOODbURy ROAD HUNTINGTONN y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 101 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 one against, according to Councilwoman Cochrane's experience among people she met before this Board voted to end an airport study less than a year ago. This should be deleted at once from the zoning code. [APPLAUSE] Also, on Page 7 of the proposed zoning code, I find the definition of a Master Plan seriously limited. A Master Plan should not be just "a plan for development." It should provide for protection and preservation of sensitive environmental areas, wetlands, woodlands and open space, many including sensitive watershed areas. It should also consider preservation of historic sites, such as Fort Corchaug in this historic town of ours. Finally, when I looked at zoning map, I couldn't believe that of Corey Creek, which borders the south end of Laughing Water and ends at the Nunnakoma Waters the proposed the branch boat basin, was not shown. Also, there are undisturbed wetlands between that arm of the creek and Little Peconic Bay, as well as along part of the branch's north shore. Yet that part of Corey Creek and abutting wetlands are zoned R-80. It would take 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 102 9 10 Il 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 3 5 6 7 a lot of fill or stilts to build houses over the creek and wetlands. I don't have time to mention all of the problems which concern many of us, but I can't help wonder why the plan provides for a strip zoning where there is an existing non- conforming use. Strip zoning was a no-no even in the Master Plan adopted in the early '70's. It should be a no-no now. Please, members of this Board, take the responsibility now to make crucial changes in the zoning code and map. If you wait until after you adopt the code and plan as they are, you will leave the doors open for a spate of impatient developers to speed the process toward building creekfront motels and other inappropria- projects. To act now will help save our rural atmosphere for generations to come. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Yes? MR. WIGGIN: Do you want to turn your comments in? I am Merlon Wiggin. My comments are from myself. I realize the Town Board has a difficult task, and these comments are meant to 261WOODBURy ROADHUNTiNGTONN Y. Ii743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 103 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 1'~ 15 I6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 be constructive and things that I have observed that might be helpful from a planning point of view. First of all, I realize there seems to be an omission of the category for parks and open space. I realize that even Orient Town Park and Southold Town Beach are zoned residential. I think we are going to need more of the open space, and I think it should be identified as to how we are going to provide access for people in the future. Secondly, federal and stated owned property is not shown. I know we have several within Southold Town. I think the plan's purposes, as far as preservation of open areas, is good, and I think it was very helpful that the Agricultural- Conservation District was separated and treated distinctly from that of the residential, and we all know you have been very active, and the County, as far as the Farmland Preservation Program has been concerned, and yet the areas that are already in the program are not shown. , / Why not show these, as well as the projected one~ / as well? 261 WOODbURy /~OAE) HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 4~1-2255 692.?383 Page 104 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 The stated purposes for our hamlet density, as we all know, I think perhaps not enough has been shown on the plan on the existing hamlets. In some cases, next to Greenport, for example, 8th and 9th Street, that area, these are already hamlet density, and yet they are shown as being R-40. The next area, for the future water supply of the town, we need to find out where this water is going to come from. There have been visits to the County Health Department and many plans put on by the County as to where the recharge areas are. Wouldn't it be wise to identify sizable -- several acres of area that could be used for future well development and develop now the essential areas that have no nitrates or no tenants? The second area, with increased population in Southold Town, there is going to be a marked increased need for service type of businesses, electricians, p]umbers, heating and air to move conditioning. There has been a push now these out off the existing residential areas to some other area that is categorized Limited Business. Yet, there is very small 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 692.7383 Page 105 6 ? 8 ]0 ]! ]3 ~5 20 22 23 25 areas town. group shown for Limited Business around the Wouldn't it be a good idea to try to these in a cul-de-sac arrangement, where US. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. SPOHN: Board, my name is David we could have businesses and services to service the present population, as well as the upcoming population? These are just examples of things I think need to be addressed. I think they are significant, so that the Town Board should take another look and revise the plan to include these areas and make a better plan for all of Thank you. Dave? Mr. Supervisor and members of the Town Spohn. I did not come prepared to say anything. However, previous remarks have prompted me to at least make a comment. It is very true there are no airports shown on the Master Plan -- none. There are several that currently exist. One is a commercial airport, which was previously a That is not, however, my military airport. issue. That issue, in midstream, while the OODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N YII743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 106 1 2 3 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 study was in progress, was decided upon popularity alone as identified this evening. However, popularity has SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. REEVES: nothing to do with merit or need, or the future. The economic impact is as important an issue as the environmental impact; for, perhaps, what is requested is too expensive to be realistic. So, everyone is requesting an environmental impact statement. I suggest you do an economic impact statement to see whether your plan is affordable. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] In the rear? Gert Reeves from Orient. First off, I don't envy you one you think you are God, nor do I envy you the position of some of you. Some of you represent real estate, some represent lumber yards -- no, I am not criticizing. I wonder if I could be in your place and think for others that you represent or for myself if I were a real estate man. That scares me. One other thing. I would like to have ditto marks for under Ruth Oliva for me. I won't even go into it. I look at our Town Board and bit. I don't think any of 261 WOODBURy ROADHUNTINGTONN Yl1743 42~-2255 692-73B3 Page 107 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Another is, been here for years. I don't have the rest of my family me. We have been here since 1636. what they would say if some people said I have I have been here twenty. to speak for I don't know they were here because they were fishermen and farmers, period, nothing else. No airports, no marinas. If you mailed a letter in Orient in early 1800 to New London, Connecticut, you could get a letter back the same day. If you don't believe it, I have it home to show you. It was mailed from the Orient docks, landed in New London, was received and answered and sent back by package boat the same day. We can't do it today. The other thing is, amongst you, not many of you here unless they are grandsons, are firemen or arresting people. My son has just mortgaged his life to buy a modular home -- some of you read about it in the paper last week -- put it on a piece of property that is not a half acre. It is going to cost him over a hundred thousand dollars before it is finished. What is affordable housing? Orient has lost six firemen, six rescue men in this past year. Where are we 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 421 2255 692 7383 Page 108 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 I1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 2O 21 22 23 24 25 you going to get them? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. LIEBLEIN: going to get men to replace them if we can't have affordable housing? It has got to be under seventy-five thousand dollars. Where are You can't afford the property. That frightens me because you have got a big job. Thank you. Up front? Bill Lieblein. I live in the Village of Greenport, operator of a marina. Together with a couple of other marina owners, I have gotten together some information and have gotten a letter for you which I would like to read into the record. "With all the discussion taking place regarding the Marine Business Zone in the Town of Southold's Master Plan, we in the marine industry feel it is important to point out some facts related to our industry. "We polled the members of our industry and received twenty-five replies. In addition, there are at least another twenty-five businesse that derive at least seventy-five percent of their gross income from the boating public. "The twenty-five marinas who responded 261 WOODBUry ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 42;-2255 692.7383 Page 109 10 11 12 13 1'~ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 have an annual gross income million dollars, million dollars, employees and pay property taxes three hundred thousand dollars. in excess of forty payrolls in excess of four have over three hundred in excess of Using a multiplier of 1.5, a conservative figure supplie~ by Cornell University, to show the following on dollars spent in the local community, a minimum of sixty million dollars is being spent in the local economy. "There is a big demand for more public access to the water from local residents, as well as those outside our town who come here as tourists. Besides a limited number of public beaches and ramps, the only other access to the water is through privately owned marinas and ramps. This makes the marina one of the cornerstones of our tourist industry. "To purchase, develop and maintain a marina in today's climate of high land cost requires that the owners of marinas be allowed to develop their properties to their full potential. Any uses less than those which are presently proposed in the Marine Business Zone would make it impossible for most of our 26 I WOODB~J RY ROAD h UNTINGTON. N y 11743 2255 692.7383 Page 110 9 10 11 12 13 14 I5 16 17 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 existing marinas, and all of any proposed marinas, to carry their overhead. "The demand for waterfront property by developers of condos and homes has a great deal to do with the rapid rise in waterfront values. Thus, just as this demand by developers has made our farms an endangered species, so, too, are our marinas and other water-dependent businesses; however, when we lose these water- related businesses to residential development, we are also losing our already limited access to the water. "Marine businesses should be encouraged and not discouraged for many reasons. They provide expanding career opportunities for local residents. They give Southold an expandin< tax base without having to resort to the fruitless pursuit of heavy industry. They allow growth to take place under the easily controlled environment of the public or private marina. They provide the access to the water, which is the reason the majority of Southold residents moved to this town in the first place. They provide the services and facilities demanded by those who live, visit or summer in the town. WOODBURY ROADHUNTiNGTON N Y 11743 421 2255 692 7383 Page 111 10 11 i2 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 "The owners depend on the lure of environment to ensure of marine businesses a clean waterfront their survival. They have the most to gain by preserving that environment and therefore they should have a major input on decisions affecting this environment. "To sum up, Southold Town has a unique opportunity. We have an industry that provides tax income, jobs and access to our public waters. Logic says marine businesses should be expanded so°that all the taxpayers of the Town of Southold and visitors may benefit." You can change it to "I" if that's how it should be for submission of this document. I would like to add to that, in a little bit different area, after listening to the last person who spoke, that I would like to reinforce any statements that have been made in the direction of affordable housing. At the present time, I have several employees who cannot find housing in the township, commuting in from as far away as Patchogue and Riverhead, Page 112 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Board? MRS. BAILEY: and places of that nature. So, I would urge the Board to do anything you can to continue to work for affordable housing. Thank you. Anyone else like to address the Town Pat Bailey, Cutchogue. I would just like to add, I understand some of the properties south of 25 would be one acre zoning. Is that correct? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: There are all different categories, some one acre, some two acre. MRS. BAILEY: acre. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. BODENSTEIN: Peconic. I wonder if mine could be considered for one acre zoning. It is on a very small lot, six acres. It is very difficult to get rid of two acre lots. It is easier to get rid of one I would even consider one and a half acre. Thank you. Yes, ma'am? I am June Bodenstein. I live in I would like to make a couple of brief comments. On these condominiums, before we give permits for hundreds of them, I have been given to understand that half of the ones that have been sold have been sold strictly on speculation. Speculators are buying them up. 261WOODbURy ROAD HUNT]NGTONN Yl1743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 113 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 They are not being that's true or not, hate to think of us just investors. One more thing. are not going to carry all occupied. Now, whether I don't know, but I would as a plaything for Our east-west roads this traffic if provision isn't made now to widen them or build more because if we are going to have double the population we have now, think about those roads. I would like to remind Mr. Spohn that in a democracy, the majority rules, and I think the majority does not want the airport. [APPLAUSE] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Anyone like to address the Board? Why don't you line up on the side? Please, anyone who would like to address the Board, please move up to the mike. MRS. GEBHART: My name is Julia Gebhart. I would like to say a few words in favor of the marinas. I have lived in Greenport most of my life. My family moved here from Montauk, where my dad was a commercial fisherman. We were a boating family, and I still enjoy boating. Each year I see how much harder it is for boating people to find a slip in which to 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. NYii743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 114 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 keep their boats. In fact, I have a friend right now who has bought a home in Greenport, and the closest place that she can find for her boat is South Jamesport. from Greenport. Now, without it, boating, we lose a part of our lifestyle out here. Boating people are clean; they do not clutter the highways, and demand more and more asphalt parking lots. I have three of them around me right now in what used to be a beautiful residential section. They, I think, are the ideal people to encourage to come here. They bring a lot of business and leave a lot of money in Southold Town and, God knows, we can use it. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Anyone else like to address the Town Board? Please? Anyone else who would like to, please go to the mikes. Thank you. My name is Abigail Wickham of Cutchogue. I would like to first commend the Town Board, the Planning Board, and also all the people that worked so hard on this. The nature of this hearing is not to tell you what MS. WICKHAM: That's quite a run 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 117~3 421 2255 692.7383 Page 115 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 a good job you did, but to point out problems, and I have three. The first is on behalf of myself, as a resident of this town and not representing any client, and that has to do with what I think is a very dangerous provision that you have put in the code in connection with the Residential Office Zone. I think a Residential Office Zone is a great idea. It provides a buffer between some business and residential areas. It also helps alleviate some problems of residential areas along, for instance, the Main Road, or other heavily traveled areas, and it allows those areas to obtain some relief through the use of offices and other uses which are unobtrusive and don't counteract the residential flavor of those areas. Then, scattered in among these unobtrusive uses, you have restaurants, and I don't know why you have a restaurant in a Residential Office Zone. I think that it can cause as much harm as almost any use can in terms of noise, odors, overflowing traffic, lights, garbage, etcetera, and I would like to strongly ask that you reconsider that. Page 116 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The second item that I would like to point out is on behalf of myself, as an attorne~ who does a lot of work in this town on zoning matters, I do not agree with the Board's decisio] not to have gone through with a full SEQRA process in this code. I am sure it had been mentioned before today. If you do adopt the code, I think it leaves us wide open to a challenge in court. Developers out here are becoming increasingly more sophisticated and more litigou I would hate to see all this time and effort reduced on an unfavorable decision in court on that basis that the impact on the environment was not considered properly the first time the developer does not like what you are telling him he can or cannot do with the zoning. The third has to do with a point on behalf of a client of mine, whose name is Herbert Mandel, the owner of a C-1 zoned property on Rocky Point Road in East Marion, which contains, and has contained for years and years, a garage. It is a repair shop and an auto body shop. It has a number of uses all related to that type of industry over the years, 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y. 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 117 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and you propose to change it from the current C-1 zoning to a R-40 zone. He would suffer considerable financial burden if that were the case. He would be relegated to a nonconforming use, which I don't think is good planning in terms of zoning. The area in which it is located would not be adversely affected by the change, and I would like that to be reconsidered. In sum, I would ask, because of these point, that you not adopt this particular code, but that you quickly do what you have to do to, perhaps, incorporate those suggestions and readvertise so that all the time and effort is not lost because, overall, I think there is no question the code does need an upgrading. I do not know if William Wickham, who lives at 115 Old Harbor Road in New Suffolk was here earlier, but I do have a letter that is going to be added to the paperwork. I have a letter incorporating my comments. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: clerk? Is to address the Town Board? Would you please give them to the there anyone else who would like We have five minutes 26 I WOODBURy ~OAE} HUNTINGTO~ N y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 118 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 and then we are going to recess until tonight, and we will reopen at seven o'clock. There being no one else to speak, thank you for coming out. We appreciate these comments. [WHEREUPON THIS HEARING WAS RECESSED AT 4:55 P.M, AND WAS RESUMED AT 7:00 P.M.] o0o 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 119 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 [WHEREUPON THE EVENING SESSION WAS CALLED TO ORDER BY THE SUPERVISOR, FRANCIS J. MURPHY, AT 7:00 P.M.] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: It's seven o'clock. I would like to reconvene our public hearing. The official notices have been read previously. I would like to announce that any correspondence turned in will be given, or has been given to the Town Board. Anything handed in tonight will be given to the Town Board, and so, what we are doing, we are going to ask people on the right here to start the forum from the front to the back, and speak on this mike on my right, and the people on the left side go on from the back down to the front to line up on the mike in the rear. This is a public hearing, I'd like to remind you. It is not a question and answer period. The Town Board is here to listen to your comments on the proposed Master Plan. We just want to know what your comments are. The time where we have had discussions on this are all gone. This is four and a half years in the works now that many people have 261 WOODBIJRy ROAD hUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 120 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. LARSON: been working on it. want to hear your comments of the zoning code and the So, at this time, those in the front here on So, this is the time we on our final draft zoning map. I would like to ask the right to start to line up at the mike to address us. I would like to ask anyone who addressed the Town Board this afternoon to please hold off until, if we have time at the end, to address the Town Board again. This is comments to the Town Board. They are being recorded by a stenographer over here, and the minutes -- all your comments are given to the TOwn Board, so that it is not necessary to speak again tonight. So, at this time, I would like to ask anyone over here on the right, please, who would like to address %he Town Board, to please start lining up here from the front row to the back, and then please have some people go to the mike in the rear, and we are going to jump from the front to the rear. Now, I have to have your name and if you have a prepared statement, if you will turn it in, that's for anyone. Okay, Ellen? Ellen Larson; Southold Town Trustee. 261WOODBURY ROADHUNTINGTON. NY. IIT~3 421-2255 692.7383 Page 121 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I am responding with regard to the proposed rezoning in the creek. As most of you should know, tidal wetlands are the most productive acreage on earth and the most productive acreage in terms of estimated value; they are estimated at thirty dollars an acre in terms of productivity. I feel they are the most endangered acreage in the town as far as the proposed MB zoning. Not only will it affect the habitat, but the system as a whole. Estimates show that sixty percent of our total fish catch depends upon these marshes. The economic, social and ecological value of these creeks has been documented federally, state and locally. State, federal and local approval for any project that would adversely impact our wetlands' viability would be unlikely. Owners of wetland properties frequentl5 seek their development. Legislative history indicates that the intent is to protect the marsh and its water quality. Builders and marine contractors often chafe at the and mitigative measures. History indicates, however, regulation~ that it is 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 122 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 tO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the intent of every government to protect the marsh and its water quality. I do not feel the impacts of the MB zoning was thoroughly examined in its relation to a Master Plan. To exploit the intertidal marsh without consideration of the ecological cost of this resource or the results of this trade-off is, in my opinion, an unrealistic approach for long term planning to Southold Town. The controversy between marina owners and marina users and conservationists is a long- standing battle, in part because the marsh and marina like similar conditions, protection from waves and strong currents. However, marinas thrive in deep water, marshes don't. I would just like to point out some of the information that is available to me on the results of marina development inside of an intertidal marsh area. If you compare a natural marsh to a marina, the amount of suspended organic particle matter -- that means the amount of food that is available for any fish to feed on -- is similar in volume in both areas. However, the chemical 26I WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421 2255 ~592.7383 Page 123 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 I5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 composition and nutritional values are much lower in marina areas. Fecal coliform counts dramatically increase in marina areas, and are as much as forty times higher in a marina area. There is an oxygen demand loading due to road runoff and increased sedimentation. Bioassay levels from boat exhausts show growth inhibition in some species beginning at concentrations of five percent, with definite toxicity of most species. Dissolved organic content increases copper and tin levels found in seeweeds, snails and shellfish that has found its way into the food chain. Everyone has agreed that the salt marsh nurtures aquatic life by sending plant nutrients into the coastal waters. Therefore, marsh development could be compatible if the grass fringe is left and maintained, or destroyed wetlands were replanted; but that's wrong. They are finding now that the diversity of the species found in marshes decreased as they were developed. The number of fish are similar, but Page 124 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 there is an increase in sport fish, such as bluefish, in developed marshes, and what happens is that we have allowed development in the past, thinking that it was environmentally compatible and maintained a marsh fringe with bulkhead and fill to high marsh, but small fish like flounder weakfish or shrimp, they come in a flood tide and settle on the high marsh. On the ebb, they are protected by the grasses where they grow. With the bulkhead, the smaller fish have no place to go. That's why the predator fish are eating the small fish. I don't question at all the need for increase in marina space within the Town of Southold, but I would ask the Town Board to carefully consider the location of any type of marina business expansion. We are running around right now, people, grabbing at clean waters act, looking for money to clean up toxic waste. The handwriting is on the wall. We have a chance to protect Southold. Please look at our future in the long run for all of us. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Ellen. Forgive me for not introducing the members here. On my right is Page 125 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. WOOD: Councilman Schondebare, Town Attorney Tasker and Councilman Penny, Planner Dave Emilita and Councilwoman Cochrane on my left. Also, Judge Ray Edwards from Fisher's Island and Councilman Paul Stoutenburgh. We will continue and go to the rear mike. I am John Wood. I live on Old Jewel Lane in close proximity to the proposed Norris Development. I am not aware that the Planning Board ever made an environmental study on the impact of this increased density on the water supply of the surrounding homes. Myself, I live between the Norris property and the saltwater. Now, I think before the Town Board makes a decision on this, doing a rational process, and it should be made Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. we all assume you are that you have a study public to all of us. In the front? I might ask that you please start to line up at the microphone so that we could continue on and hear everyone's comments. 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 126 2 MRS. HUSSIE: 3 5 6 ? 8 9 10 ll 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Alice Hussie? Alice Hussie. I respectfully suggest that the many, many special exceptions in the zoning code be written into the permitted uses paragraph of the code sections. In many cases, the number of special exceptions in the code are greater than the number of permitted uses. For example, Article X, which takes care of General Business, lists ten permitted uses and then identifies fourteen uses by special exception. Article XIII, Light Industrial, gives five permitted uses and thirteen uses by special exception. Since uses by special exception are already itemized, would it not be quicker, less expensive both in time and money and all around red tape, for the Town and everyone involved to make these decisions now and write them into the code as permitted uses? Itemizing the special exceptions as you have, strongly implies that if one goes through the steps required for special exception, such exception will be granted. Also, I notice that a large section of Main Road in Southold between Oaklawn Avenue and 26 I WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 9 10 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 l 2 3 5 6 MR. TOWNSEND: Ackerly Pond Road has been designated Residential/Office. That's great. But the rationale that determined that use was not applied in Cutchogue and Mattituck. If the reasoning was to connect isolated business zones, then that reasoning should apply in Cutchogue to connect the area between Griffen Street and Alvah's Lane, and Depot Lane and Eugene's Road. Parts of Mattituck also appear to have spot residential zoning because the nonresidential zones are not connected. The areas I have noted should have the same zoning for the same logical reasons you have rezoned Main Road in Southold. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Alice. I would like to move back to the rear microphone and introduce former councilman, Joe Townsend. Joe, myself and Ray Edwards were the only three people who were around when this whole Master Plan was started. Thank you. I am speaking on behalf of the Board of Trustees of Eastern Long Island Hospital. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Please speak into the microphone. We 261WOODBURy ROA~.HUNTiNGTONN YI1743 421-2~55 692.7383 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 i6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. TOWNSEND: Page 128 can't hear you. Joe Townsend, speaking on behalf of the Board of Trustees of the Eastern Long Island Hospital. On Thursday, February 8, 1987, the Board of Trustees of the Eastern Long Island Hospital resolved to state for the record of this hearing that we are overwhelmingly in favor of expanding the provisions for affordable housing in the proposed Southold Town Master Plan. With two hundred sixty-five employees, Eastern Long Island Hospital is the largest private employer in the Town of Southold. This number does not include the many physicians who practice medicine or surgery at this institution. We, therefore, realize it is in our best interest to promote planning that responds to the housing needs of every segment of our community, and especially to those who are or might be our employees. Over the last few years, more and more of the members of our staff have been unable to buy or build housing in Southold. Consequently, they have been forced to commute from Islip, 26 I WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 129 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 Brookhaven or Riverhead Townships in order to work at Eastern Long Island Hospital. This is a trend that is growing, and it is one that alarms us. We think that this trend is neither helpful to the hospital in particular, nor to the community as a whole. A related problem has been created by the fact that some of our vital services are performed by volunteers. These volunteers are the young men and women who serve as firefighter: and emergency medical technicians. Any plan that creates unnecessary or additional hardships for young families who would like to continue to reside in this area, has a negative impact on the health, welfare and safety of all our residents. We, therefore, urge the Southold Town Board to develop a plan in which housing can be affordable to people of varying incomes and age groups. In this way, the total health and safet, needs of the community can be served at the highest level of excellence. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Would you have one, too? Would you turn it Joe, do you have a written statement? like to turn it in, and Alice, do you in to the 261WOODBURY ROAD HLJNTiNGTON N y. 11743 421-22§5 692.7383 Page 130 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2,4 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 MR. ISAACS: clerk over here; and again, I would ask anyone who has a prepared statement, to turn it in to make the recordkeeping much easier. Please start the lineup at the microphone. If anyone would like to address the Town Board, in the rear? I am Bruce Isaacs from Cutchogue, and I would just like to say that, in my opinion, it seems to be plainly obvious that we really need to do an environmental impact statement on the Master Plan; and I know that after four and a half years of working on the plan, that everyone was looking forward to completion and hoping that it would be completed. Everyone hopes that it will get done. It will get done because it is so important, and it will decide the future of Southold Town irreversibly, so that we really need to put that extra effort in and go that extra mile, and if we need to spend a little extra money to really do the plan right and make it really work and not be shabby. It just seems to me this is one of the most important issues that the Town Board will ever have to decide on and, therefore, you 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692.73E~3 Page 131 8 9 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 MR. CROSBY: 7 really should put that extra effort. It deserves that extra effort, and the people of Southold deserve the extra effort that we need to do, late date, after all these years. even at this Thank you. Trustee. Albert Crosby, Junior; Southold Town I would like to discuss the Marine Business District. As we know, as has been stated, the productivity in our bays has been declining. Being a Town Trustee, I am also aware of the problem of boat space in town, that there is a need for increased boat space. More and more people move out here, and it is an affluent community, and people have boats and they want access to the water. Of course, it is up to the Trustees to provide adequate public access, but at the same time, we have got to provide protection for the creek which, of course, to protect the creek, then you are protecting the whole nursery for the finfish and shellfish, and I am not even speaking on a commercial basis; I am speaking as just a resident going out and fishing and clamming or scalloping. 261WOODBURY ROADHUNTiNGTON NYll743 421 2255 692 7383 Page 132 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 I'd like the Town Board to take a look at the Marine Business District because while you have an obligation, or the Town has an obligation to provide access to the water, there is no obligation to provide access to hotels, or condominiums, or high density housing or any activities that would further deteriorate the productivity of our creeks and wetlands. I hope this is given serious consideration. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Again, please come MR. ONUFRAK: to the mike if you would like to speak. In the rear? Good evening, Mr. Supervisor, members of the Town Board, members of the Southold Community. My name is Joseph Onufrak. I have a home in Mattituck, very near the proposed Carr Development site, and I am an attorney. I appear on behalf of CANDO. That is the committe~ of homeowners and civic and residential associations opposed to %he continued downzoning of the former Norris Estates. Before I make my presentation as a spokesman for CANDO, I would like to introduce Professor Rene Eastin, a professor at Sou%hampto College, a consultant to a number of authorities Page 133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 I5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 such as the Town of Southampton. Professor Eastin is a professor at Southampton, who teaches a course of hydrology. PROFESSOR EASTIN: about Thank you for your indulgence on this. Thank you. I would like to speak zoning, population density and water resource management, using the proposed building of condominiums on the Norris Estate as an example. That area east of James Creek and south of Marratooka Lake, has had problems with salt water intrusion into wells in the past, and still is in the midst of changing groundwater conditions with several wells suffering salt water intrusion. The proposed ninety-five dwelling units on twenty-seven acres can only adversely affect the groundwater reservoir there and promote further salt water intrusion. In general, the situation is this. There is only a limited amount of fresh groundwater available. It is derived from and depends on the amount of rain and snow that falls each year. The capacity of the groundwate] reservoir depends on the land area's width, 2 3 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 134 from shore to shore and on the ground elevation, the thickness of the possible reservoir. The North Fork is one of the smallest groundwater reservoirs on Long Island. This is well pointed out in the report by Holzmacher, McLendon & Murrell in 1970, Comprehensive Public Water Supply Study, Suffolk County, CPWS-24, Volume II, Pages 276-277: "On the North Fork are found the lowest groundwater levels for any large area in Suffolk County. In addition, the ratio of tidal coastline to total land area is much highe] than the ratio for the County as a whole. This pinpoints the North Fork as being one of the areas in Suffolk County most susceptible to salt water intrusion." The narrow land area and the low elevation of the land above sea level mean that there is little fresh groundwater rising above sea level and floating like cream or a pool of oil on top of a denser liquid, in this case, salt water. If fresh groundwater is pumped out and lost by evaporation or by runoff into the sea, then the amount of groundwater is less, the pool of floating fresh groundwater is Page 135 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 groundwater, place. smaller, and salt water takes its place in the pores of the sediment, rising from below or moving in horizontally from the shoreline. This effect is especially noticeable near shorelines in low-lying areas, as in the southern part of the Hamlet of Mattituck. As iD most of the East End, homes tend to cluster near the shore, using groundwater where it is already naturally least abundant, in the thin edge of the pool of fresh groundwate~ In this area, large tidal variations and storm surges of salt water push the fresh groundwater back, and thin it out as the greater elevation of hydraulic head of sea water overcomes the balancing pressure of the fresh groundwater. The more wells there are, the more dwelling units per acre, the more groundwater is pumped and lost to the reservoir by evaporation and surface runoff. This decreases the elevation, the total thickness and the area of the fresh and allows salt water to take its Even if septic tanks are used -- sewer~ are worse -- so that some water is put back into the ground, a certain percentage, about thirty 261 WOODBURY ROAD hUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 136 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 I4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 percent of that pumped in the first place in residential areas of Eastern Suffolk, is lost in this way, and not available to other wells or to keep back the salt water. Watering lawns on a hot day is not an efficient use of groundwater. One hundred percent of such irrigation water is lost by evaporation. A sewage treatment plant is certainly better for the quality of the waste water than the septic tanks, but even if it recharges its output into the ground, there is still evaporation and runof loss. Dec~easing the number of wells per acre, the amount of pumpage from the groundwater reservoir, can be done by upzoning. Southampton Town has been a leader in this aspect of its Master Plan. Other measures to conserve groundwater include clustering to minimize the area of paved developed surfaces, including lawns. Such surfaces do not allow rain and snow to naturally recharge the groundwater by vertical infiltration as undisturbed pine forest does. Paved and developed areas also increase surface runoff into the bays and promote 261W OODBURY ROAD hUNTINGTON. N Y11743 421 2255 692 7383 Page 137 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1'~ 15 I6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 evaporation, both processes lose fresh water that would otherwise flow down into the soil to add to groundwater. Upzoning and clustering are prudent measures to conserve a limited natural resource for the requirements of future generations. Maintaining the quality of groundwater is another subject. I'll not get into that here. Faced with a limited groundwater resource, town planning boards must manage growth and use of that resource. Even though their term in office is short in terms of the history of Long Island, they have a responsibility to plan for future years and their children's needs. Unlike crops and trees, groundwater is a very slow to change resource. Once polluted, it will remain polluted for tens of years, generations, because it flows so slowly. Once depleted, drawn down and replaced by salt water, it will take tens of years, generations, to be recharged, to recover. In the meantime, drastic, costly measures might be necessary; desalination of seawater, rain catch basins and storage tanks for houses, deep recharge injection wells, water supply systems 26 I WOODBURy ROAD HUNT}NGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 138 14 15 16 17 19 2O 21 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 that use sewers to collect wastewater so it can be treated, cleaned up and then put back into the pipes to supply users recycled wastewater. Now is the time when we, in the eastern part of Suffolk County, must carefully evaluate proposals for development and use of this limited resource, groundwater. I feel that this proposal of ninety-five dwelling units for the twenty-seven acres of the Norris Estates is an impact on the area's groundwater that can onl' exaggerate the present situation of salt water intrusion. The present zone of HD should be changed to the previous 2A zoning. Attached is a list of wells adjacent to this area that show how rapidly in the past few years the fresh groundwater is being overpumped. Use is in excees of the natural recharge to the area, increasing. Well so that salt intrusion is Here are a few examples. Poscillico's. installed in 1981. The south end of Camp Mineola Road. It went salty in 1985. The screen had to be pulled up into the shallower part of the fresh groundwater. The Daneri and Best. Those homes 261W OODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON Ny 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 139 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 along the shore just west of Camp Mineola Road. Their wells went salty in 1985, and had to be moved to a location two hundred fifty feet north along the road. Hughes and Scheidel, homes along Old Jule Lane, went salty in 1969 due to a severe winter storm surge, but recovered soon after. But after a 1984 March storm, they went salty and have not recovered. They remained with over two hundred fifty parts per million chloride, beyond the limits. A test well, the Strong House, just west of Camp Mineola Road, finished up in 1982, showed that the material, at that time, was at less than fifty parts per million, a perfectly acceptable level of chloride. It tested, in 1986, at two hundred parts per million chloride. The Strong well was fine in 1985. In six months it turned salty. Higgins. A test well showed high chloride at thirty foot depth. Located between Number Norris 1966 to a depth of ninety-six 1 and Number 2 on Camp Mineola Road. A farm irrigation supply well on the Estate, west of Kraus Road, installed in feet, went salty Page 140 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 I8 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 MR. 7 8 9 and has been pulled up to pull it out of the salt water Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: to sixty-two foot depth intrusion. ONUFRAK: Will you please turn your paper in, Doctor? Thank you. I am Joseph Onufrak. I have a home in Mattituck, very near the proposed Carr development site. I am an attorney, appearing on behalf of CANDO, the committee of homeowners and civic and residential associations opposed to the continued downzoning of the former Norris Estates. CANDO appears again before the Board to press the Board to recognize the inconsistency between the purposes of the Comprehensive Plan which is the subject of the hearings this afternoon and this evening and the zoning of the Norris-Carr site under the proposed plan as Hamlet Density (HD), under which condominium development is permissable. The essential argument of CANDO is that this spot zoning doesn't work under the Master Plan. My statement is in part a narrative. I chose to tell, for some of you once again, what has happened in the zoning history of this 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 42~-2255 692 7383 Page 141 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 twenty-seven acre property. The recovers much that is central to understanding of the Committee's against this dramatic example of narrative an struggle spot zoning. Nearly Norris sought and obtained a zoning of his property, more fourteen years ago, Bruce change in the than seventy-two acres of horse farm. The change in zoning, in essence, afforded the opportunity to develop portions of the land with multiple dwelling units. The zoning change stirred enormous controversy in the community, and the question of Southold Township's right to amend the zoning in Norris' favor went to litigation. One year later, the trial court upheld the right of the Town to change the zoning. Norris did not move forward with his project, however, and in fact, it is fair to say he abandoned the plan for more than a dozen years. The community, of course, did not abandon change. In the ensuing dozen years, the peninsula's population grew dramatically. To be specific, within just two blocks of the Norris site, more than a dozen new homes have 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N. y. 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 142 10 11 12 13 1¢ 15 16 17 i8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 been built. Even as we meet, the Planning Board is reviewing development plans for seven new homes to be built on 15.3 acres just twenty-five feet from Carr's property. Peninsula-wide development has been just as dramatic in the same period. But this development has exacted a price, and change has brought problems. The peninsula is narrow, bounded by James and Deep Hole Creeks on the sides, Lake Marratooka above, and the bay a few blocks to the south. The Carr site is extremely close to a major marina. There is but one major thoroughfare to Main Road: New Suffolk Avenue. The Town has forced that road to support the communities of East and West Camp Mineola, Old Jule and Lake Marratooka, all of Strong's marina traffic and the largest part of traffic from the New Suffolk area. Traffic is always brisk, and the road's capacity is clearly exhausted. The community is alarmed at the harrowing adventures which await any who try to enter Main Road at the Tolendal Inn. In summer, the road is a nightmare. It is in this area, however, that the Master Plan would 261WOODBURY ROAD HIJNTINGTON. N y 11743 421 2255 692-7303 Page 143 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 tolerate a ninety-five unit community, where seventy-five percent are three bedroom homes, directly on New Suffolk Avenue. Mr. Carr has, through his attorneys, attempted to deal with the problem. He has recently offered preliminary traffic studies to this Board and the Planning Board, essentiall' designed to enlighten us and pacify our concerns. The report can only astonish: It shows cross-intersections where none exist; it reflects numbers counted on meters which, as some distinguished members of this community would be prepared to testify under oath, were disconnected or broken, or did not measure traffic on New Suffolk Avenue in both directions; it cynically never measures traffic turning onto Old Jule Road or onto Reeve Avenue, although such heavy traffic necessarily affects the traffic flow of the community around the Carr site. Finally, the preliminary study seems to suggest that the community and this Board believe that Carr's August 1986 study shows less traffic than a November 1973 study prepared for Norris. 26 I WOODBUrY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 692.7383 Page 144 10 11 12 13 14 15 i6 17 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 9 Is there anyone in this room who will believe that? In summary, we suspect that the final report will insult common sense and the expertise of one's own eyes in surveying the traffic flow in the area. The last twelve years have also made the community wiser about water problems. We have seen an alarming loss of private wells to salt water intrusion. In some cases, wells have gone bad within six months. Nor is it only wells along the shoreline; neighbors report inland losses regularly, and the numbers mount. This peninsula isn't the same one Mr. Norris sought to develop fourteen years ago. Under the old lenient zoning code, the density increased, compounding the ancient high density which characterized the shore community to the south. The power of the sea has had random triumphs over people's wells throughout the peninsula, and shows no signs of yielding in the future. Yet, the co~nunity has salvaged a quiet and charm which justifies its inhabitants' continued pleasure in the quality 26 I WOODBURY rOAD HUNTINGTON N Y 1 ~743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 145 9 10 11 12 15 I6 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of life there. Hamlet Density zoning, which is in the Master Plan, threatens that quality. This Board's planning consultants, Raymond Parrish, recognized this truth and recommended that the Norris-Carr site be zoned R-80; that is, two acre. In preparation of the Comprehensive Plan, they looked at the site, the aesthetic quality of the neighborhood, water supplies in the area, sewage disposal problems, traffic gluts, and they recommended change. Yet, the Board ignored that recommendation, and so we ask again, why? Who so ordered the change in the proposed Comprehensive Plan from the R-80 recommendation to HD? Who can benefit from the change? Can the Board truly believe that ninety-five units, which could hold as many as three hundred or even four hundred persons, belongs on twenty-seven acres? zoning? Is that sound Did the Board receive one scintilla of evidence to challenge the recommendation of the planning experts paid to advise the Board, rationally and disinterestedly? Did the Board have a single piece of scientific evidence to 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 42~-2255 692.7383 Page 146 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 challenge the professional planners on the Town Board who opposed the HD classification? If Hamlet Density zoning was so critical to this area, why did the Board zone the 15.3 acre site adjacent to Carr two acre, and not allow Mr. Appel, its owner, to so maximize the use of his land? Who benefits? Only the developer, under the threat of a lawsuit, and the investors who will buy these condo units and exploit them as the South Fork's land has been exploited. The favorable zoning afforded the late Mr. Norris was never utilized. It is now outmoded. To continue it in the face of the community's existing problems is irrational and arbitrary. If the Board insists that the County Water Authority will solve the water problems on Carr's site, as Carr's lawyers' correspondence slyly argues, say so, and let this town community decide if public water authority will be the new assumption for site development planning. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Please, Joe. MR. ONUFRAK: I will wrap it up. 261WOODBURY ROAD hUNTINGTON N y. 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 147 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 If the Board believes Carr's project is justified in hauling water from sites north of Main Road and placing a crushing environmental mortgage burdened, for the future on the site so say so. If the Board believes housing well is "affordable classification, in excess of two hundred thousand dollars housing" under the HD say so. But if you cannot do these things, then recognize the petitions of hundreds in this township. Drop the HD spot zone as irrational and counterproductive to the health, the safety and the welfare of your constituents. Your planners, independent and in-house, have pointed the way. We implore you to follow their direction. Ail of you, with us, are residents. The people of Southold owe no apologies for cherishing the beauty around us and the quality of life here. But don't we owe it to ourselves, our families and our children to preserve it? Thank you very much. Thank you. My name is begin what I have to SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. LOWRY: Tom Lowry. I just want to say by saying that twenty 261WOODBURY ROADhUNTINGTON. NY11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 148 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 I9 20 21 22 23 24 25 years ago, my wife and I came out here and bought our house in East Suffolk as our second home. We couldn't use the water then, and we can't use the water now. ~e live at Jackson and Second, and three years ago, when our house -- shortly after our house burned -- there was a great big nor'easter. About ten days after, our water, which was piped into a replacement trailer which was on our driveway, began to bubble and effervesce with sewer gas. New Suffolk is a fragile place. I have sixty-five signatures that I got in about four hours of going up and down First Street, Second Street and Third Street. I did meet a few other folks. We are immensely concerned about the Hamlet Business zoning proposed on King Street between Second Street and Third Street where John's Market was. I have a map here with the area crosshatched. It seems to me any zoning such as Hamlet Business that allows trains and bus stations, laundromats, theaters, retail establishments of all sorts, is not the kind of zoning that we need in New Suffolk with our Page 149 9 10 I1 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 25 fragile ecological situation. So, I am not really here for myself. I am here for sixty-five anguished members of the New Suffolk Community, who feel as though they are being steamrollered and they don't like it. In connection with all this, sincerely second what Bruce Isaacs had to say about the DEIS. A DEIS is really needed for the Master Plan. The Master Plan is, per se, going to affect the environment, and if we don't have a DEIS prior to the adoption of the new Master Plan, we and everyone else in Southold are being shortchanged. I want to conclude my pitch with a story I heard this afternoon at the post office in New Suffolk from a neighbor of mine who owns Marge Tuthill's old house at the mouth of Schoolhouse Creek. He said ten years ago he got the house~ There was shrimp in Schoolhouse Creek. He says there are no more shrimp there and he thinks he knows why. And I think I know why, too; the pressure which those of us who don't care enough for the environmental are bringing to bear on it 261 WOODBURy ROADHUNTINGTONNY11743 42~-Z255 692.7383 Page 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. RUROEDE: Thank you. Thank you. In the rear mike? My name is West Ruroede; Bayshore Road, Greenport. While studying marine engineering at the Merchant Marine Academy on the rocky coast of Maine, I became an avid scuba diver. I am one of those rugged souls that gets his jollies swimming year round in the murky and turbid depths of our local waters. I ask you all to explore and enjoy those public lands beneath our town waters. I am here to report that all is far from abundant and undisturbed from my vantage point below the waves. Perhaps, it was an omen when the idea of desalinating salt water into fresh potable water was proven economically feasible at the project conducted at Clark's Beach on the Sound in Greenport during winters of '84 and '85. I hereby volunteer my diving services to the Town in order to defray the vast expense of a professional diver, and especially to evaluate the damage we have allowed by the slack 261 WOODBURY ROAD hUNTINGTON N Y I 1743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 151 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 enforcement of the past and present. The proposed environmental impact studies will take time to submit. I propose that you, the Board, find the backbone to match that display by the Town of Brookhaven, and pass a six month building moratorium now so that we can study the problems before us and vote on it when all possible are present this coming summer Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: John? MR. WICKHAM: is John Wickham of Cutchogue Thank you. My name and New Suffolk. Two of the recent speakers have spoken more clearly than I wish to on the problems, but I would like to bring to the attention of some of you sitting before us that when two acre zoning was first discussed, I made the comment that I would support it because there was an emergency, but I felt it was not fair to agriculture, and that there should be some trade-offs. There has been a trade-off, and that is Southold Town's program of the purchase of development rights; but unfortunately, it hasn't kept up with the increase in the price of land, Page 152 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and I know I have personal friends among the farmers who have turned -- who offered their land, but turned down the project because the appraisals were simply not high enough. They were just unrealistic. They were based on three or four years ago values. under these circumstances, if the Town is not prepared to make trade-offs for agriculture, there is no excuse for staying with two acre zoning because the County, the County Board of Health, the County Planning Board, Bi-County Planning Commission, our own studies, have all shown that there is enough rainfall to provide one residence per acre, and there is just no question about it. We know that, and if you are saying farmers must have two acres per residence, you are shortchanging them. If you go to four acres, that makes it four times as bad and it simply isn't fair. Now, to get down to a particular point, my own farm. We own, in the family -- because I am old enough to have divested myself of a great deal of property that I owned to other members of the family -- but we own, in the family, approximately half of the land area in 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421 -2255 692.7383 Page 153 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the school district of New Suffolk, not counting Robin's Island. That land we have dyked to keep the salt water off, to protect New Suffolk Lane and for agriculture, but we have done it at our own expense. We are the only people, and I am the only individual who has followed the recommendations of our planning consultants of twenty years ago; namely, protecting the lowland at the heads of these creeks from salt water flooding, and this enlarges the catchment area, as you have heard, and although we do have problems in New Suffolk near the bay between First and Second Street, particularly, they had problems twenty years ago and they are nothing new; but New Suffolk has expanded in total population. There have been some recommendation~ to the Town Board that there should be one acre zoning along the bay. My family holds approximately two thousand acres -- two thousand feet of undevelop~ frontage on Peconic Bay between the Village of New Suffolk and Boatman's Harbor, Fleet's Neck. In light of all that we have done to protect the water resources, the whole face of this peninsula, New Suffolk, it is unreasonable to 261WOODBUF~Y F~OAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 4Z1-2255 692-7383 ,d Page 154 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 10 11 12 I3 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. FLETCHER: require us to have two acre zoning. It is not necessary; it doesn't make sense from the Town's point of view because the taxes on residences on one acre would bring more money to the Town than residences on two acres; but finally, to propose business development in New Suffolk is simply unthinkable. It is at our expense, and it is adding insult to injury. I think it is just unthinkable, and I would strongly object. Thank you. Thank you, Jack. In the rear? My name is Linda Fletcher, and I represent, as president, the New Suffolk Civic Association. There are several serious concerns which we wish to address concerning the Southold Town Master Plan, the zoning amendments and its acceptance as policy. The first of these problems is the proposed combination of Marine Business and Marine Recreation known as Article XII in the zoning amendments. As written, it would set the stage for the devastation of the environmentally sensitive areas, which are our creeks. 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421 -2255 692-7383 Page 155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 The creeks of the North Fork are one of the most distinctive attractions and the foundations of much marine life. To subject them to the potential dangers of overdevelopment for commercial profit is very shortsighted. We urge you to insert Marine Recreation and Marine Business as two separate zones and to adopt the Conservation Advisory Council's proposed Article XI designated Marine-Recreational into the zoning amendments. It is your duty, as well as ours, to protect our creeks for future use and enjoyment. Secondly, it has recently come to our attention that all of New Suffolk is in the coastal zone; thus, New Suffolk is an extremely sensitive area, clearly address process. Town of and all land use planning should the very significant fact. Finally, the question of the SEQRA It is difficult to believe that the Southold, which, in the majority of cases, is declared to be the lead agency and requires others to submit a draft environmental impact statement, would exclude its own plan from such a critical process. What kind of an example does this set for others wishing to use 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 156 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 land and waters in our town? It is our opinion that this thorough examination is in the best interests of Southold Town and all those who reside here. We will have to live with this plan for a long time. had better be the best that it can be. Thank you very much. [APPLAUSE] Thank you. Would you like to submit Give it to the clerk. Thank SUPERVISOR MURPHY: your statement? MR. MC GOWAN: It yOU · My name is John McGowan; also from New Suffolk. We do have a tendency to speak at these public hearings. I would like to speak about the Hamlet Business zoning proposed in the Master Plan along Second Street and going up almost into Third Street. At the present time, New Suffolk has a very limited business area consisting of a former marina area which supports a restaurant and full general store; and on First Street, a fishing station, a bar-restaurant and a gift shop boutique. The gift shop and boutique has changed hands a number of times over recent years. Any business in that spot has seemed to have had difficulties just plain surviving. 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNT~NGTON N Y 11743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 157 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 I6 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 There would appear to be no need for additional commercialization in the Hamlet of New Suffolk. Therefore, to me it makes no sense whatever to zone land along Second Street, or anywhere for that matter, west of First Street for commercial use, whether you call it Hamlet Business or any other form of commercial use. It just doesn't add up. I would like to make two general comments on the Master Plan as it now stands. One is that we should seek to restrict even further than the plan does waterfront development; particularly, along the creeks, whether it is in marina zones or otherwise because the creeks are vital to our survival of our town and as a series of communities; and Paragraph Two, the plan should be concentrating more on the existing hamlet business areas to avoid the strip zoning so common in other parts of Long Island, which deterioration. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: leads to a tremendous Thank you very much. Thank you, John. In the rear? Again, I would ask anyone who would like to address the Board to please come to the 261W OODBURY ROAD hUNTINGTON. N y tl743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 158 6 7 8 9 lO 11 12 13 1¢ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 MR. GRIME: 3 4 5 microphone. My name is Donald Grime. I bought a piece of property in Cutchogue on the landfill. It was zoned C-l, General Industry, and you people have proposed a change to LI. At C-i, any lawful business was allowed, and there was forty-three others allowed by special exception. LI has it down to five permitted uses and thirteen by special exception. The reason for the change in the proposal was so that you people could watch if there was any contaminatio: of the surface and groundwater. Now, if anyone in that area is going to be contaminating the water, I think it would be the landfill, not me and my business. After I bought the piece of property, the Suffolk County Department of Health sent me eleven pages of covenants and restrictions on the piece of property, which far oversees anything you people have written. Now, I don't understand why you did away with this. I bought the piece just last year. You made me buy five acres knowing it was C-l, and now you have changed it. I have been to all the hamlet meetings, 261WOODBURY ROAD. HUNTiNGTONNY11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 159 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and I have asked that it be left C-i, and you people haven't. So, I just ask if you can look at it again and do what you can because I am just starting out. I had to borrow a lot of money to buy it, and if my business doesn't work and I have to sell it, the decrease in the value of the property is very great, and I would never be able to pay off the loan which I had to take to buy the piece. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: mike? Thank you. Anyone else in the front Anyone, please come up who would like MR. SPANOS: to address the Board. Please come up to the mikes. In the rear? My name is Nick Spanos. I have been a resident in Southold Town most of my life. My father, George Spanos, owns a service station in Greenport. The service station has been operating as a service station for more than seventy years. I realize that the task of making a Master Plan to satisfy everyone would be impossible. I don't understand why, on the Master Plan, there are parcels of vacant land that aren't being used for anything that has Page 160 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 I6 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: been zoned General Business or Marine Business, and the property my father has on Main Street in Greenport is zoned Residential. Here is a letter that my father would like to submit to you. "I am the owner of a gas station on the corner of Main Street and Champlin Place in Greenport. "My property has been used as a service station and repair shop for over seventy years. Since the old zoning code was adopted in 1971, the property has been zoned as non- conforming business use. Now that the zoning has been reevaluated, I would like you to consider zoning my property as General Business District. The Master Plan has recognized many non-conforming properties according to their use. for my property. "Thank you for listening to my plea, and I submit to you this letter and survey for your review." Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Spanos. Do you want to bring the letter up to the clerk? and has rezoned them I ask you to do the sam Page 161 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 I6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. FEILER: Please, address the Board, the front, also. I am Don Feiler, if anyone would like to please come to the mike in In the rear? and I am representing the Ole Jule Lane Civic Association. I wish I could say we are in favor of this Master Plan, but there's a few problems that we hope can be resolved, since this is the starting point, to control land use and plan for proper growth. We have something very special here in Southold. It's the quality of life that has so much compared to any other area on Long Island. Preserving that can only be done with carefully planned zoning; and that's not just this map -- it's an informed and concerned public; a responsive and responsible government. The Zoning Board, Planning Board and Town Board must understand these responsibilities, and be responsive to their constituency, to carry out the spirit of that Master Plan. Specifically, though, if you were to look at Mattituck on the map, you might think, "What's wrong with this picture?" What's wrong is the zoning of the Cart/Norris property on 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON, N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 162 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 New Suffolk Avenue. That allows multi-family housing at one unit per quarter acre in an area zoned for single family housing on two acres. Do you have to be a professional planner to see what's wrong with this picture? It seems that it helps, since all of the professional planners involved with this Master Plan, including the planning consultants who prepared the Master Plan, the Southold Planning Board and the Suffolk County Planning Commission, all recommended two acre zoning for this site. When you were shoving the Suffolk County Water Authority down our throats, you thought enough of Doctor Lee Koppelman, the master planner, himself, to bring him here to discuss the land use process. Now you should finally listen to what his Suffolk County Planning Commission, in 1973, recommended to the Town Board, disapproval of the Norris downzoning for the following reasons: One. While consideration of the clustering concept on the entire landholdings of the petitioner is welcomed, no attempt should be made to downzone portions thereof to allow 26] WOODBURY ROAD hUNTiNGTON. N Y 1~743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 163 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 an increased density to effectuate such a land development pattern. Two. An increase in density would tend to adversely affect the limited underground fresh water supply on the North Fork and establish a precedent for the continuance of such a practice. Three. It is inconsistent with the low density single family residence pattern of zoning in the locale. Four. It would tend to establish a precedent for further downzoning in the locale, especially along New Suffolk Avenue. Five. It is inconsistent with the Town Master Plan, which designates this area for low density single family residence development. The site plan now being reviewed by the Town Planning Board proposes ninety-five condominium units on just twenty-seven acres. The adjoining property owner is now developing his fifteen acres with a cluster plan and a yield of seven lots. The same cluster calculati¢ would permit eleven lots on Mr. Carr's property. To be consistent with the neighborhood ninety-five housing units should be permitted n 261 WOODBURy ROAD H~JNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692-7383 Page 164 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 lfi 19 2O 21 22 24 25 2 3 4 5 6 on no less than one hundred ninety acres. Now, we are not a bunch of nay-sayers who want to deny Mr. his land. Two acre and proper use here, Carr the right to use zoning is the only orderly and this property will remain very valuable and marketable at two acre zoning. Mr. Cart will still make an enormous profit on his investment. He won't have to trade in his Rolls Royce for a Toyota. We all remember the demolition of the Hartranft House, where another greedy carpetbagger wouldn't be satisfied with just a profit from the sale of this house and land, but had to go for the maximum profit without regard to his neighbors and the feelings of the community. We are not a bunch of NIMBY's either -- not in my backyard. We are concerned with our whole Town of Southold, its problems and its future. When the Hartranft House was torn down eight miles away from our neighborhood, we were upset. Riverhead and Greenport are quickly being overdeveloped, and that concerns us, too, 261 WOODBURy ROAD hUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 165 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 not only the ripple effect it sends toward us, but they are all part of our place. Mr. Penny, you've put a lot into the affordable housing issue, and we appreciate that. But don't stop with housing. You said, "We're guaranteeing the future of people in the moderate income range." Don't forget that we are those people and we need your help now to protect our rights and guarantee our future. The New York Court of Appeals defines spot zoning as singling out a small parcel of land for a use totally different than that of the surrounding area for the benefit of the owneI of such property, and the detriment of the owners of the surrounding property. Spot zoning is the exact opposite of good planned zoning. A lot of us feel that our town is a pretty good place right now. Not perfect -- things could be a little better -- but they can get a lot worse. Maybe there isn't one project that can change this place much, but they can quickly add up. Just go to Westhampton Beach or Hampton Bays or any place southside on a summer weekend, and think about what it was like ten or fifteen years ago. There are a lot Page 166 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14 i5 i6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of natives on the south side who now admire the North Fork because it still resembles the East End they once knew. Improper development can change this place for the worse, and that's a mistake that can only be made once, with a change that will be forever. In short, Board, to show us the future of all a select few. I thank you, are listening to us. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. it's up to you, the Town that you really care about of us in Southold, and not MR. CUDDY: and I hope that you [APPLAUSE] Again, I would ask that anyone who wants to, please come up to the mikes. Thank you. Mr. Supervisor and members of the Town Board, my name is Charles Cuddy. I am from Mattituck. I, fortunately or unfortunately, also live very close to the Norris property. I would like to reserve some time to speak about that later because I am waiting to hear someone speak on behalf of the Norris-Cart downzoning. I don't imagine that's going to happen, but I would still like to see it happen 261W OODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTONN Yii743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 167 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 lO ll 12 13 I4 15 I6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 because I think the Board should be aware of just how many people there are that oppose it. I appear initially, though, on behalf of two clients, and as the Board knows, or I believe you know, they own the property that's at the northwest corner of Westphalia Avenue and Main Road in Mattituck. Occasionally, and I go back to Mr. Spanos who spoke just once removed a minute ago about his gas station -- occasionally, I think the Board makes a mistake. I think you have made a mistake if you look at the zoning for the Bergen Oil property. You zoned one half of it business, you have zoned the other half R-40 Residential. That's where they park the trucks, that's where they have the fuel oil business. They have been there thirty years. I think in recognition of that fact alone, that the Board should review the map and make that area, as a minimum, a business zone. I speak further on behalf of people from Cutchogue, Joseph and Julie Rojusky. You have a zone that was changed five years ago to business. The Rojuskys relied upon that zoning. They built a building, significant building, 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTONNYII?43 421-2255 692 7383 Page 168 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 put a lot of money into it and a lot of effort into it. You now propose the same type of zoning I just spoke about, R-40, although five years ago the Town Board unanimously declared that that was to be business zoned. I have looked at your entire map all the way from Mattituck to Orient Point. In every hamlet, Mattituck, Peconic, Southold, outside of Greenport right on through to Orient Point on Main Road or Business properties. one or two acres. the North Road there are That is one or two units, The only hamlet that is not done in that way is Cutchogue. I am sure it was an oversight on your part. I think the "B" designation for their property belongs there, and I ask if you will look at it, I am sure you will agree. I ask that you change SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. JUDGE EDk[ARDS: for both Bergen and Rujosky the zone. Thank you. Anyone that would like to address the Board, please come up. Judge Edwards from Fishers Island. I am reading a letter from the Fishers Island Conservancy, Inc., addressed to members of the 261WOODBURY F~OAD HUNT)NGTON N y 11743 421-225~ 692.7383 Page 169 8 9 10 11 12 13 1¢ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Town Board of the Town of Southold, Supervisor of the Town of Southold, Frank Murphy and to all concerned parties. "The Board of Directors of the Fishers Island Conservancy wish to express their concern for the relative lack of environmental safeguard~ in the new proposed Southold Master Plan zoning ordinances, maps and definitions, especially as they affect Fishers Island. "It should be noted that we have no desire to impact, adversely affect or stultify any Fishers Island business or enterprise that currently exists. Indeed, prosperity for these enterprises is essential for the Island's general economy and well-being. However, we also feel that on Fishers Island, so different from the mainland of Southold in so many ways, some additional effort needs to be made to bette~ balance both ecological and economic concerns, particularly in the economic and residential areas of Fishers Island that are of unusual environmental significance or sensitivity. "We trust that the Town Board can be both understanding and appreciative of our concerns for the environment of one of the last 261 WOODBURy ROAD hUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 170 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 remaining relatively undeveloped barrier islands on the North Atlantic Coast. We stand ready to be of help in any way we can, and hope that in lieu of our presence at the public hearing on February llth, this letter may be read into the official record of such hearing. "For the Board of Directors, John H. Thatcher, Junior, President." SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, Ed. Would you give it to the clerk, please? Jeanne, is this the same statement? MRS. MARRINER: No. I am Jeanne Marriner, and as you know, I wear several hats, president of the League of Women Voters, I am a member of the Conservation Advisory Council, and I am also a long time marketing consultant to the boating industry, and in this last capacity I have something to bring to the attention of the Board from the latest Boating Industry Magazine, the latest current data available on recreational boating in the last year. First, let me also say that I live across the creek from Strong's Marina, and I appreciate the way that Dave, Dottie and Jeff Strong conduct their marina business. We are 261 WOODBURY ROAD hUNTINGTON N Y I 1743 42~-2255 692 7383 Page 171 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 I6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 also one of their customers. They haul our boats and repair our engines and so forth, so I certainly have no reason to oppose marinas, per se. However, with regard to Marine Business zoning, I would like to say that marina~ are not really what anyone is opposing. What we are opposing is the inclusion of nonwater related uses, such as restaurants, motels, etcetera, in the Marine zoning, and this, really, is the way the Conservation Advisory Council feels, the League feels, and I just want to set this straight. I have a pie chart that will show you where marinas' income is derived from. Approximately forty percent comes from fuel, berths and other miscellaneous, about forty percent from repairs and service. About another ten percent comes from equipment, new trailers, etcetera. About ten percent comes from hardware, accessories, gifts and clothing. There is no mention of restaurants, hotels, etcetera and so forth, and that is what the boating industry considers Marine Business, and I would just like to put this 26I WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON N ¥ 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 into the record. If I may just be brief, we did not have this ready to give you when Ronnie spoke for the League, and it is just a very brief statement. I would just like to call to mind the League's long involvement with Southold Town's Master Plan, an involvement based on years of study and research based on land use planning, and we persisted because we believe in citizen participation in the political process. In 1970, the League urged town officials to be farsighted in land use planning so that our economy and resources would be insured for the future. In 1982, in the public interest, the League sponsored a survey of Southold Town residents' needs and presented the results to town officials to serve as a guide in updating the Master Plan. In 1983, a member of the League served on the Citizens Advisory Committee for the town plan update and made many recommendations. in 1984, to assist town officials, the League, in conjunction with the NFEC, held 261WOODBURY ROADHUNTINGTONN YII743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 173 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 2?; 24 25 informational meetings in the hamlets on the proposed plan and gathered information for revisions to the plan. In January of 1986, the League commended the Town on the goals of the Master Plan and offered suggestions as to how the zoning amendments could better advance its goals. In the spring and summer of 1986, we petitioned the Town Board to rescind their decision to turn the Town's water supply over to the Suffolk County Water Authority because it was not in keeping with the goals of the Master Plan, nor in the best interest of the residents of Southold Town. Last October, we urged the Town Board to go through the SEQRA process to determine if the proposed zoning insured the public health, safety and welfare, and the goals of the Master Plan. All of our valid suggestions and petitions, made in the public interest, were ignored. Tonight, we again urge you to reconsider your decision to ignore the SEQRA process. We have a list of suggestions that may Page 174 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 MR. GLOVER: be helpful to you. We hope you will at least read these and call on us. Tonight, we also want to go on record in support of the NFEC, and to publicly announce that the League's Board of Directors has voted to support any further action they may take on behalf of the residents of Southold Town. We believe the needs and wishes of the residents have been ignored too long. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] I am Leander Glover from Cox's Lane, Cutchogue, and while you are working on the proposed Master Plan, I come in to request that you include my buildings on Cox Lane as Business. They have been nonforming for a good many years. They are on the Suffolk County Tax Map Number 97-5-2.1 and 97-5-2.2. The family goes back as far as 1656. I don't go back as far as 1640. I have been in the snowplowing busines~ since 1947 and the trucking and contracting business since 1949, and all these businesses are nonconforming, and the adjoining properties are zoned "B." Now, that's why I wanted to request 26 I WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 175 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that this be changed over to make it conforming for the future generations can stay there and remain in business. you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Yes, ma'am? MRS. SKABRY: so they Thank My name is Margaret Skabry. I have been to all the hamlet meetings, and I started to come to the first informational meeting you had when the goals were said to be to preserve the agricultural and rural nature of this area while planning for the future growth. It seems to me there have been some problems with that. We are told that the time for asking questions is over, but I haven't been able to get an answer in two years to a few of them, and I have been down to Town Hall quite often, as each one of the Board members knows, and I even spoke to Mr. Emilita about one, whether or not we are going to end up with the Soundview Avenue extension through my neighbor's home. She is a little too timid to ask, so I am asking for her. Also, along the shoreline on the Sound there is two acre zoning -- hello, George -- and the two acre zoning -- hello, George -- the two 261WOODBURY ROAD hUNTINGTON N y 11743 421 .2255 692.7383 Page 176 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2?; 24 25 acre zoning along the shoreline is backed up by ten acre zoning agricultural. Now, I don't understand how the people are going to get to the two acre zone along the shore when there is no Soundview Avenue extension, and we can't get an answer as to whether or not we are going to have an extension put through our road. Still no answer. Okay. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Margaret, again, this is not for MRS. SKABRY: questions. Thank you. The comment is we still don't have an answer. The other thing we don't have an answe/ to is why, after two years of fighting to kill an airport and having to battle to make our Town Board members realize that this Town does not want an airport, now why has it been moved a couple of feet down the highway and another new area has been zoned with exception? Now, you have to go before the Zoning Board for an exception. You can have an airport -- a Stage 2 airport again -- and we are told that what we say is important, that you want to hear it, that you want to know what 261 WOODBURy ROADHUNT}NGTONN Yl1743 42;-2255 692.7383 Page 177 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we want. If you want to know what we want, this is a statement; but then I would like to ask questions. You have a very strange way of showing interest because you are not doing any environmental impact things on anything. You are not giving us answers on anything, and the hamlet meeting we went to in Mattituck was a disgrace. These Deople didn't even know they were having a meeting. There were what, fifteen twenty people there? It was a disgrace what you did to those people. They had no chance to let you know how upset they were about what was going on in that part of town. You were told about it; you did nothing about it. Spot zoning. I believe what was said tonight by one of the men against the Norris project. We have a little spot up on the highway here. You can see down to Bridge Lane. It was a gas station that was zoned many years. We knew it was coming. and it is really there, very well noticed. The only problem is now there are a few other little business zones that are being put in right next to it. The two homes next to it are now being that way for It's there Page 178 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 i 2 3 5 put in a business property. Talk is to the west of it is going to be condos right along the tracks. We still don't have answers. That's the comment. We don't have answers as to why this is happening when we are told that strip zoning and spot zoning is not something that was a goal for this plan. Also, your hamlet density is to be kept, supposedly, around hamlet areas. Well, that's fine. Unless you really don't want to push for your Suffolk County Water District in here, as certain members seem to want, you are going to have problems because I am in a hamlet. I am on an acre. In back of me is open acreage. It could be hamlet density. My well went dry already. Now, in order for Suffolk County Water District to get me water, they are going to have to get it from some other piece of property out here. If you want clean water for the people in back of us, they are going to have to get it from somewhere, too. Who are they going to get it from that is in this town already? You are not solving any problems. You 26 I WOOOBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692.73B3 Page 179 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 I5 ]6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 are building more. You are not doing a thing for affordable houses because you can't promise that those houses in hamlet density are going to be affordable. Also, why isn't there hamlet density down by Kenny's Beach? There is a beautiful pond. Why aren't they there? Why are people being kept in the small town areas? Why aren't they being given the chance that every one of us supposedly had when we came here? Why are you putting the business down the highway in front Why is there a Resort Residential of the farms? area now? There have been problems on the inlet for a year. Now you have a jetty there. On the other side, you go ahead and put up a resort. What kind of resort? that. We can't get answers to I am not allowed to ask questions, but the problem is when I read all the possibilities that you could have for Resort Residential on that block, I still don't know what you can have You can have anything. You can have a Hilton on the Long Island Sound, too. I don't know -- two family shacks -- 261 WOODB~JRy ROAD HUNTINGTON. 421-2255 69Z.7383 Page 180 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. BRAND: you know, with a pool. Besides a marina, you can have anything. We don't know what it is, and I have never been able to find out who owns that property even, and that will have an impact, but you won't have an impact statement. My feeling is you really aren't being fair to the people of this Town by putting through a Master Plan that has so many holes in it that ih looks like a colander, and you really have to give yourself a chance to do impact statements, and you know it. You all live here. Thank you. My name is Tony Brand. I am a nurseryman from Huntington. Last year I bought some land, farmland in Cutchogue. Of course, at that time, that farmland was already zoned two acre, and still I went ahead and bought it, but I think the Town has made a mistake. You look here to the west -- as I said, I am from Huntington, and the mistake in Huntington was, before they started with the one acre, if everything in Huntington was one acre residential, it would be a beautiful town. It is the oldest, small, sixty by one hundred or Page 181 10 11 i2 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 whatever, half an acre, third of an acre, that makes some of what's in Suffolk the way it is. If you had one acre before two acre, you would never be like Western Suffolk already. Yet, you went to two acre. Now, I can't understand why the farmer should be the one to provide this watershed, if you will, to the rest of the Town. You are looking at jamming people in this hamlet area and down by the water, and the farmer should be two acre? I don't understand. I don't see any justification for that, and I would hope that this Town Board and Planning Board would rethink some of the decisions they have already made. That's basically all I have to say. I hope to move out here someday. You are doing a good job of keeping this town the way all of Long Island used to be, if you ask me, from what I know and from what I could remember. I think you went too far with two acre. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Again, please come up MR. to the mikes in PONTINO: I am Joseph Pontino, the front here. In the rear? and I have an Page 182 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 interest in a parcel, and I want to know why the hell it should be zoned two acres when we have been surrounded with quarter acre lots for the last hundred years. Everyone has lived there quite happily ever since. NOW, I would like to give my kids a building lot, each one. I can't afford two acres. So, what's wrong with a quarter acre and let these carpetbaggers think about it? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else like to address the Town Board? Please come up to the mike. Anyone else that would like to address the Town Board, please come up and use the front mike, also. MR. MAHON: My name is Russell E. Mahon. I live in Southold. came My comment is a general one. When we to the two acre zoning several years ago, I thought it was a good thing and I still think it is a good thing. We do have open space. We don't have as much as we had, and we still have a lot of open space. So, when you look at the new maps, the Master Plan maps, and you see a lot of agriculture and conservation two acre, and the various R-40 -- I don't remember all the 261 WOODBURy ROADHUNT~NGTON NY 11743 42~-2255 692 7383 Page 183 9 10 11 12 L3 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2.4 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 numbers -- one acre categories which also leaves us a amount of open space, which I considerable is great. but there are two or three different think I only heard one evening from one lady, Mrs. something about the exceptions, and her remarks apparently were addressed to the light industry area exceptions and the business area exceptions. Well, I addressed the same situation in the agricultural conservation two acre and the various one acre zoning. In each category, there are numerous exceptions. Now, there may be a good reason for the exceptions. I would like to see all, or some of these exceptions eliminated because we have a viable Master Plan that, presumably, has provided for various types of business in various areas. Why do we need many possible exceptions in one and two acre zoned areas designed to be kept as open space? And if a lot of these exceptions were used, well, we wouldn't have as much open space. One of the exceptions in the two acre comment in the whole Hussie, who said 261WOODbURY rOADHUNTiNGTONN y 11743 4Zl 2255 692 ?383 Page 184 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2I 22 23 24 25 l 2 3 5 6 7 8 zoning is a labor camp. Well, I won't go into all the details. The point is we have a good plan. We don't need all the exceptions, and if we use a lot of the exceptions in the open space areas, two acre and one acre, then we won't have so much open space. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MRS. SMITH: Ron, Thank you. Ann Smith. Yes, ma'am? I represent my husband, and myself. We live at 1530 Camp Mineola Road, which is directly across from Mr. Carr's proposed development, and we are very concerned about the possibility of the condominiums going up in our front yard. The plans indicate that the entrancewa' would be directly in front of our property, and if the road develops, we would lose approximatel~ twelve and a half feet across the front of our property, which would diminish our two acre zoning. We are concerned about the transportation, the water and all the things tha the people have already spoken about. I guess the statement is that the people speaking with their reports and all the 26I WOODBURy ROAD hUNTINGTON N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 185 9 lO II 12 t3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 2.3 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 them for all the work and have put in. [APPLAUSE] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. information have gotten out to the community, and we are community people~ and we support the people who are representing us, and we thank all the time that they Anyone like to address the Town Board? MR. GRIME: My name is Donald Grime. I would like to do something a lady did this afternoon, but there was not enough people here for it. Will you raise your hands if you are against the Master Plan? SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Donald, we asked not to have a demonstration here, please. MR. GRIME: This is just to show you who is for it and who is not for it. We are here for comments of people. the Town Board ruled. Thank you. Charles Cuddy. I reserved some time SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Please, MR. CUDDY: for myself previously. I was waiting to if there was anyone for the Norris-Carr downzoning. I haven't found anyone, and expect to find anyone. You know, thirteen years time that this has been going on, see I don't WOODBURy ROAD HUNTiNGTONNY 11743 421-2255 692 7383 is a long and I would Page 186 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 I6 17 18 19 20 21 2.3 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 think even the Board, as well as some members of the audience, are probably getting a little tired of it. I am a little tired of it, too, because I thought at some point in time the Board would respond to the neighborhood and to the community, and I am talking about a significant part of the community. I have heard a number of arguments, and none of them persuasive against what has been going on as far as the CANDO Committee, and by against I mean arguments saying that they are just old people that are against it. I think, tonight, I may be the old guy in the crowd. They are young people that are against it. I have heard a number of people say that it really isn't quarter acre zoning, that it is a zoning that could be spread over the entire parcel. That's a specious argument. hope it won't be an argument adopted by any members of the Board. That zoning is bad planning. It's bad because of traffic congestion; it's bad because of water; it's bad because it is contrary to the neighborhood. 261WOODBURy rOADHUNT}NGTON NYl1743 421-2255 69~ 7383 Page 187 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 Ik is hard to believe that this Board will sit back and not respond to the community, and I wondered why that's so, and it appears to me that maybe there is an error that's being made on the part of the Board. I don't think the Board is judicial in nature. It's legislative in nature. I don't think the Board has to say to the community, "Prove things to us~" It would be nice if we could prove everything to a scintilla so that there would be no question in your mind exactly what should be done with this property; but I think the community has spoken again, and again and again, and the community has said to you don't allow this property to be multiple dwelling density. Don't allow it to be four units to an acre. We said that more in thirteen years. I would hope that this Board would act as a legislative body. By that I mean a sensitive and considerate body, and that it responds to the will of the electorate, are saying to you again, stop it and stop it now, is now, and you are the Board, and your constituent~ and again and again, and the time to do it and we ask that 261WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N yI1743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 188 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 113 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 you do it now, and the place to do it Thank you. [APPLAUSE] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. BEAR: is here. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you, to hear a thank you. Okay. Thank you. Again, I ask anyone who would like to address the Board, please come up to the mike. Frank? My name is Franklin Bear. I would like to thank the Board for giving us an opportunity to make our comments, and also I think that between this afternoon and this evening -- I didn't do a head count -- I think that some four hundred people turned out for these new hearings. I would also like to say that we appreciate the work that has been done by not only the Town Board and others, but also volunteers that have participated in the planning process and so forth. So, I think that all of us appreciate this opportunity to be here, and I think the fact that some four hundred people turned out indicates a real definite concern on the part of the people, and we appreciate this opportunity for them to be heard. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Frank. It is always nice Is there anyone else who would 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N Y. I1743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 189 $ 9 10 I1 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 MRS. VISSER: like to address the Town Board? Any comments whatsoever? It doesn't have to be a prepared statement. In the rear? I am Lisa Visser. I met Marge Skabry a couple of years ago at the original hearings for the Master Plan, and we are here for the same reason tonight. We still don't want to see Soundview Avenue opened up from Mattituck to Cutchogue. We don't need more traffic throug our neighborhood. That's all I you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Town Board? am here to say. Thank Any other comments to the MR. MARTIN: I am sure you have some more comments. Sir? My name is Ralph Martin. I live in East Marion. I would just like to make two comments one on Article XII. I think we should improve what little we have without going into estuaries, even marshland. We should leave those areas alone -- I mean absolutely alone. 261WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON N y tl743 421 2255 692.7383 Page 190 8 9 10 11 12 13 I4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 1 2 3 5 6 7 The crabbing has gone down, the scallops aren't around so much anymore, the fishing is not as good as it used to be. There was a time when the fishermen used to put their weights from the boat overboard and that was fine, we got a lot of crabs and lobsters. That has ceased to be done by the State or whoever. We seem to lose a lot of fish, crabs and so fort~ Going back past the Article XII, it seems like tonight I have heard the same story time and time again from the Orient Point development to New Suffolk. The people who live here don't want another South Fork with washouts as an example, Kenny's Beach -- diners, tire shops, discos, pizzerias, junk shops. I like it as it is right now, and I am sure most people here like it the same way. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think with the cluster developments, witt the amount of business zoning, it's going to stay as we have it. This is a very unique area, and it won't be that way if this continues to go on and on and on. It's going to end up like the South Fork in twenty years. 261 WOODBURy ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 11743 421-~255 692 7383 Page 191 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 I5 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Thank you. [APPLAUSE] SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Again, is there anyone that would like to address the Town Board? MR. KRAEHLING: My name is Paul Kraehling. In listening to all the controversy that we have had tonight and just getting things in my mind, the efforts that the Town Board has put into the Master Plan is definitely appreciated by the community, but I would like to say in spending all the time and money that's been done there is a definite need for an environmental impact study to be done before the Master Plan is adopted, and I really feel there should be a moratorium on any Zoning Board changes in the community until that time because there are too many questions that seems to be from all of the comments that the community has to say to be answered, and I would hate to see people trying to put things in before a Master Plan is adopted, and to try and sort out what they say, get under the wire. Thank you. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. Anyone else like to address MRS. MILMAN: North Road right across the Town Board? My name is Saul Milman. I live on the the street from the 261WOODBURy /~OAD HUNTINGTON N y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 192 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SUPERVISOR MURPHY: MR. ONUFRAK: I think there he said. new Mobil gas station. Since it has opened, we do not need any more night lights; we do not need any audio systems because of the P.A. system through the self-service tanks, and we don't encourage you to view the beautiful scene across the street. My concern is that the Town Board should consider not only where they are putting things, but what they are doing to a poor person like me when they do get there. I do hope you will have some consideration for what the area will look like after it is planned so you will know where to plan things and where to put them. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Joseph Onufrak from CANDO. I didn't want to talk tonight because I spoke this afternoon, but I either didn't understand the speaker that was here before, or should be a correction made in whaJ He said that he would like to see a moratorium on anything being done with a change of zone. I think that's a mistake. We are 261WOODBURy 7~OAD HUNT~NG~ON N Y 11743 421-2255 692.7383 Page 193 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 ¢ 5 6 7 8 asking for a change of zone, and I don't think there should be any moratorium. Where the moratorium should take place is on the construction on something going on that piece of property while the argument is taking place of whether it should be there or not because we don't want to find ourselves arguing with you or fighting in court while there is a bulldozer working out in the field. SUPERVISOR MURPHY: Thank you. would like to address There has with all the people. Is there anyone else who the Town Board? to be some more comments Everyone hasn't spoken. Okay, we have another twenty minutes. If nobody has any comments -- again, does anyone have any comments at all? If not, I would like to thank everyone who was involved here from the members of the Town Board, Planning Board, Town Government, all the volunteers, all the people who came out to let us know what you think about a plan that took four and a half years to come to this point So, again, thank you very much and, at this time, I will close the public 26 I WOODBU~y ROAD HUNTINGTON. N y 1 ~743 421-2255 692 7383 Page 194 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hearing. Thank you. [WHEREUPON THIS PUBLIC HEARING WAS CLOSED AT 8:45 P.M.] o0o 261 WOODBURY ROAD HUNTINGTON. N Y 11743 421 2255 692 7383