Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-07/01/2013 MAILING ADDRESS: PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS QF S~Vl P.O. Box 1179 DONALD J. WILCENSKI O~~ ~~l Southold, NY 11971 Chair ~ ~ i * OFFICE LOCATION: WILLIAM J. CREMERS cA ~ Town Hall Annex PIERCE RAFFERTY G Q 54375 State Route 25 JAMES H. RICH III ~ (cor. Main Rd. & Youngs Ave.) MARTIN H. SIDOR ~CDUI\ 1 , Southold, NY Telephone: 631 765-1935 Fax: 631 765-3136 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD RECEIVED v-~4~ PUBLIC MEETING MINUTES y, ~ AUG 6 2013 Monday, July 1, 2013 6:00 p.m. s thol Present were: Donald J. Wilcenski, Chairperson William J. Cremers, Member Pierce Rafferty, Member James H. Rich III, Member Martin H. Sidor, Member Heather Lanza, Planning Director Mark Terry, Principal Planner Brian Cummings, Planner Alyxandra Sabatino, Planner Carol Kalin, Secretary SETTING OF THE NEXT PLANNING BOARD MEETING Don Wilcenski: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the regularly- scheduled Southold Town Planning Board's July 1, 2013 Public Meeting. Our first order of business is to set Monday, August 5, 2013 at 6:00 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, as the time and place for the next Planning Board Meeting. William Cremers: So moved. James Rich: Second. Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Don Wilcenski: Motion carries. Southold Town Planning Board Page Two July 1, 2013 SET HEARINGS Price. Marv Ann -This proposed site plan is for an outdoor antiques flea market to accommodate ten vendors at 730 Love Lane in Mattituck, where a two family (1,750 sq. ft.) dwelling and the Iron Skillet food establishment exist in the Hamlet Business Zoning District on .75 acres. The property is located at 730 Love Lane, ±150 s/o CR 48 and Love Lane, Mattituck. SCTM#1000-140-2-18 Pierce Raffertv: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution: WHEREAS, on June 27, 2011, the applicant submitted an application for site plan review; and WHEREAS, this site plan is for a proposed outdoor antiques flea market to accommodate 10 vendors at 730 Love Lane in Mattituck, where a two family (1,750 sq. ft.) dwelling and the Iron Skillet food establishment exist in the Hamlet Business Zoning District on .75 acres; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board sets Monday, August 5, 2013 at 6:03 p.m. for a public hearing regarding the hand drawn survey certified to "Mary Ann Price, SCTM#1000-140-2-18" prepared by John T. Metzger dated September 25, 1985 and stamped received by the Planning Board on September 23, 2011. William Cremers: Second. Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Don Wilcenski: Motion carries. SUBDIVISIONS -CONDITIONAL SKETCH DETERMINATIONS Koehler Familv Limited Partnership -This proposal is for a standard subdivision into seven lots where Lot 1 equals 36,317 sq. ft.; Lot 2 equals 41,746 sq. ft.; Lot 3 equals 64,148 sq. ft.; Lot 4 equals 31,000 sq. ft.; Lot 5 equals 32,056 sq. ft.; Lot 6 equals 32,881 sq. ft.; Lot 7 equals 32,945 sq. ft.; and where the Open Space equals 379,814 sq. ft. located in the R-80 Zoning District. The property is located at 4180 New Suffolk Avenue in Mattituck. SCTM#1000-115-10-1 Southold Town Planning Board Page Three July 1, 2013 James Rich: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following resolution: WHEREAS, this proposal is to subdivide a standard subdivision into seven lots where Lot 1 equals 36,317 sq. ft.; Lot 2 equals 41,746 sq. ft.; Lot 3 equals 64,148 sq. ft.; Lot 4 equals 31,000 sq. ft.; Lot 5 equals 32,056 sq. ft.; Lot 6 equals 32,881 sq. ft.; Lot 7 equals 32,945 sq. ft.; and where the Open Space equals 379,814 sq. ft. located in the R-80 Zoning District; and WHEREAS, on April 6, 2012, the agent submitted a Sketch Plan Application along with other material for submission pursuant to Article V Sketch Plat Review; and WHEREAS, on May 9, 2012, the Southold Town Planning Board reviewed the above- referenced application and found the application incomplete and requested revisions to be made; and WHEREAS, on June 4, 2012, the Southold Town Planning Board reviewed and agreed on the setbacks illustrated on the plat entitled "Cluster Plan Prepared for Koehler Family Limited Partnership", dated September 9, 2005 and last revised May 24, 2012; and WHEREAS, on June 4, 2012, the applicant submitted revised plans; and WHEREAS, on June 18, 2012, the Southold Town Planning Board reviewed the revised plans and agreed to accept the application; and WHEREAS, on June 22, 2012, a referral was sent to the Office of the Town Engineer for review; and WHEREAS, on July 17, 2012, the Office of the Town Engineer responded to the referral request with recommendations; and WHEREAS, on September 17, 2012, the Southold Town Planning Board agreed to schedule a site visit in order to consider different options for the lay-out of the proposed lots and the open space; and WHEREAS, on October 1, 2012, the Southold Town Planning Board reviewed the application and agreed that an acceptable design configuration for this property would be to cluster Lots 5 and 7 to the northeast side aligned with the existing cluster; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board is requiring a 10' wide shared access way to a single common dock for the waterfront lots; and Southold Town Planning Board Page Four July 1, 2013 WHEREAS, on February 6, 2013, the Planning Staff and Planning Board held a meeting with the Town Highway Superintendent and the Office of the Town Engineer regarding road widths for the proposed subdivision and concluded that the proposed road must be constructed to Town Highway specifications outlined in §161-15 A; and WHEREAS, on April 26, 2013, the agent submitted 9 revised plans; and WHEREAS, on May 9, 2013, a referral was sent to the Office of the Town Engineer; and WHEREAS, on May 13, 2013, the Office of the Town Engineer responded to the referral with recommendations; and WHEREAS, on May 14, 2013, a letter was sent to the agent asking for clarification of the applicant's intention regarding the existing house on Lot 3; and WHEREAS, on May 16, 2013, the agent responded stating that the existing cottage is to remain; and WHEREAS, on May 20, 2013, the Southold Town Planning Board reviewed the revised plans and requested revisions to be made; and WHEREAS, on May 29, 2013, the agent submitted revised plans; and WHEREAS, on June 17, 2013, the Southold Town Planning Board reviewed the revised plans and found that the submitted application meets all the requirements for Sketch Approval pursuant to Article V Sketch Plat Review; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby grants Conditional Sketch Plan Approval upon the map entitled "Cluster Plan Prepared for Koehler Family Limited Partnership" dated February 15, 2012 and last revised November 16, 2012 prepared by Nathan Taft Corwin, III, Land Surveyor with the following conditions: 1. Building envelopes as approved on June 4, 2012 by the Southold Town Planning Board must be included on the Preliminary Plat. 2. Submission of a written proposal for affordable housing that meets the requirements of 240-10-2-(c). The plan must include the following information: where the units will be located, tax map parcel number, size of the parcel, and a detailed description of the size and type of dwelling. 3. The location of the 10' wide shared access way to a single common dock will be determined at the Preliminary Plat Stage after conferring with the Southold Town Trustees regarding the most suitable location for the dock. Southold Town Planning Board Page Five July 1, 2013 Bill Cremers: Second. Donald Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Donald Wilcenski: Motion carries. SITE PLAN DETERMINATIONS Harbes, Edward -This proposed site plan is for the construction of a 30'x96' (2,880 sq. ft.) greenhouse, a 12'x16' farm shed and a 10'x16' poultry pen on 13.5 acres in the A-C Zoning District. The property is located at 555 Sound Avenue, ±830' w/o Aldrich Lane, Mattituck. SCTM#1000-120-1-3 Martin Sidor: WHEREAS, this site plan is for the proposed construction of a 30'x96' (2,880 sq. ft.) greenhouse, a 12'x16' farm shed and a 10'x16' poultry pen on 13.5 acres in the A-C Zoning District, Mattituck; and WHEREAS, on April 22, 2013, Edward Harbes, the owner, submitted an application for site plan review; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to §280-133 C of the Southold Town Code, has the discretion to waive any or all of the requirements in §280- 133 for those applications involving uses strictly related to agriculture as long as they are not necessary to further the objectives set forth in Town Code §280-129 to maintain public health, safety, and welfare. The Planning Board has found that this application is eligible for a waiver of certain elements of the site plan requirements because it is an agricultural use; and WHEREAS, on May 6, 2013, the Planning Board formally accepted the agricultural application for review with revisions; and WHEREAS, on May 9, 2013, the Planning Board, pursuant to Southold Town Code §280-131 C., distributed the application to the required agencies for their comments; and WHEREAS, on May 20, 2013, the Mattituck Fire District determined there was adequate fire protection for the site; and Southold Town Planning Board Pape Six July 1, 2013 WHEREAS, on May 23, 2013, the applicant submitted the required supplemental information integral to the proposed use of the site plan; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to State Environmental Quality Review (SEAR) 6 NYCRR, Part 617.5 (c) (3), has determined that the proposed action is a Type II Action as it falls within the following description for 6 NYCRR, Part 617.5 (c) (3) "agricultural farm management practices, including construction, maintenance and repair of farm buildings and structures, and land use changes consistent with generally accepted principles of farming" and, therefore, not subject to SEQRA review; and WHEREAS, on May 28, 2013, the Southold Town Fire Inspector reviewed and determined that there was adequate fire protection and emergency access for the site; and WHEREAS, on May 28, 2013, the Town of Southold LWRP Coordinator reviewed the above-referenced project and has determined the proposed project to be consistent with Southold Town LWRP policies; and WHEREAS, on May 29, 2013, the Southold Town Engineer reviewed the above- referenced application and has determined that the proposed drainage meets the minimum requirements of Chapter 236 for Storm Water Management; and WHEREAS, on June 3, 2013, a public hearing was held and closed; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Southold Town Code §280-131 B (5), has the discretion to vary or waive the parking requirements for Site Plan Applications where doing so would not have a detrimental effect on the public health, safety or general welfare, and will not have the effect of nullifying the intent and provision of the Site Plan Requirements chapter of the Town Code. The Planning Board has found that this application is eligible for a waiver of parking requirements because there is no need to provide for parking at the proposed location -the proposed agricultural buildings are ±150' from SCTM#1000-120-1-4 where there exists ample parking and overflow parking areas under the same ownership as a part of an active farm operation; and WHEREAS, on June 17, 2013, the Southold Town Planning Board determined that all applicable requirements of the Site Plan Regulations, Article XXIV, §280 -Site Plan Approval of the Town of Southold, have been met; and WHEREAS, on June 28, 2013, the Southold Town Chief Building Inspector reviewed and certified the proposed site plan as a permitted use in the A-C Zoning District; be it therefore, Southold Town Planning Board Page Seven July 1, 2013 RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby waives certain site plan application requirements as noted above; Bill Cremers: Second. Donald Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Donald Wilcenski: Motion carries. Martin Sidor: and be it further RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby waives the parking requirements as noted above; Bill Cremers: Second. Donald Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Donald Wilcenski: Motion carries. Martin Sidor: and be it further RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board has determined that this proposed action is consistent with the policies of the Town of Southold Local Waterfront Revitalization Program; Bill Cremers: Second. Donald Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Donald Wilcenski: Motion carries. Martin Sidor: and be it further RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grants Approval to the hand-drawn survey entitled "Site Plan for Edward Harbes, SCTM#1000-120-1-3" stamped received by the Planning Board on April 22, 2013. Bill Cremers: Second. Donald Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Southold Town Planning Board Page Eight July 1, 2013 Ayes. Donald Wilcenski: Motion carries. APPROVAL EXTENSIONS New Suffolk Waterfront Fund, Inc. & Robins Island Holding, LLC -This proposed Lot Line Change will transfer 1.12 acres from SCTM#1000-117-8-18 to SCTM#1000- 117-8-19. SCTM#1000-117-8-19 will increase from 0.46 acres to 1.58 acres, and SCTM#1000-117-8-18 will decrease from 3.43 acres to 2.31 acres in the MII Zoning District. The property is located at 650 & 380 First Street, on the a/s/o First Street, approximately 32.20' s/o King Street, in New Suffolk. William Cremers: WHEREAS, this proposed Lot Line Change will transfer 1.12 acres from SCTM#1000-117-8-18 to SCTM#1000-117-8-19. SCTM#1000-117-8-19 will increase from 0.46 acres to 1.58 acres, and SCTM#1000-117-8-18 will decrease from 3.43 acres to 2.31 acres in the MII Zoning District; and WHEREAS, on April 8, 2013, the Southold Town Planning Board granted Final Approval on the maps entitled "New Suffolk Waterfront Lot Change", dated September 11, 2012 and last revised February 19, 2013, prepared by Barrett, Bonacci and Van Weele, PC and authorized the Chairman to endorse the map; and WHEREAS, a copy of the recoded deeds must be submitted to the Southold Town Planning Department within 62 days of the date of Final Approval, or such approval shall expire and be null and void; and WHEREAS, on May 31, 2013, the agent submitted a request fora 90 day Extension of Final Plat Approval due to delays related to the final closing of the property; and WHEREAS, on July 9, 2013, Final Approval shall expire; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grants an Extension of Final Plat Approval through October 9, 2013 on the maps entitled "New Suffolk Waterfront Lot Change' dated September 11, 2012 and last revised February 19, 2013, prepared by Barrett, Bonacci and Van Weele, PC. James Rich: Second. Donald Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Southold Town Planning Board Page Nine July 1, 2013 Ayes. Donald Wilcenski: Motion carries. Baxter, William J., Jr. -This proposal is for a standard subdivision of a 2.38-acre parcel into 4 lots where Lot 1=0.62 acres, Lot 2=0.63 acres, Lot 3=0.62 acres, and Lot 4=0.52 acres, all in the Hamlet Business Zoning District. The property is located at 260 Griffing Street in Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-102-5-9.4 Pierce Rafferty: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution: WHEREAS, this is a proposed standard subdivision of a 2.38-acre parcel into 4 lots where Lot 1 equals 0.62 acres, Lot 2 equals 0.63 acres, Lot 3 equals 0.62 acres and Lot 4 equals 0.52 acres; the parcel is located in the Hamlet Business Zoning District; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board granted an Extension of Sketch Plan Approval through June 4, 2013 upon the map prepared by Nathan Taft Corwin, III, Land Surveyor, entitled "Yield Map prepared for William J. Baxter, Jr. situated at Cutchogue" dated September 15, 1998 and last revised May 17, 2011; and WHEREAS, on June 4, 2013, Sketch Plan Approval expired; and WHEREAS, on May 31, 2013, the agent requested a 6-month extension; be it therefore, RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby grants an Extension of Sketch Plan Approval through December 4, 2013 upon the map prepared by Nathan Taft Corwin, III, Land Surveyor, entitled "Yield Map prepared for William J. Baxter, Jr. situated at Cutchogue" dated September 15, 1998, last revised May 17, 2011. James Rich: Second. Donald Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Donald Wilcenski: Motion carries. Southold Town Planning Board Page Ten July 1, 2013 HEARINGS HELD OVER 6:00 p.m. - Vineyard 48 -This amended site plan is for the proposed construction of a 40'x100' pole barn pavilion with two walls, a re-design of the existing parking areas, and the addition of an overflow parking area with 100 parking spaces. Existing on site are: a 2,032 sq. ft. tasting room, a 320 sq. ft. accessory retail store, 1,480 sq. ft. office and 3,000 sq. ft. storage building and 11.3 acres of grape vines on 14.9 acres in the A-C Zoning District. The property is located at 18910 CR 48, ±340' w/o CR 48 and Depot Lane, Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-96-4-4.3 Donald Wilcenski: At this time, we will continue with our hearing which was held over from our last meeting. I would like to note that the Planning Board and Planning Staff have developed a series of questions that we would like to have the applicant's attorney--and we'd also like to have one of the owners--step to the other podium so you can answer the questions. At the end of all the questions that the Planning Board and Planning Staff have asked of you, we will then open the floor to the rest of the public if they have any more input. Patricia Moore, attorney for applicant: Mr. Chairman, I have Matthew Metz (Vineyard 48 owner) here, also William Moore providing backup. Before we get started with your questions, I do want to add information to the record. It may actually answer some of your questions. But just in case, I do want to complete the record. Then, if it's all right with the Board, I will be pleased to entertain to the extent we can the questions you might have. Donald Wilcenski: I think, Pat, that we would like to ask the questions first. Mr. Metz, if you wouldn't mind standing at the other podium, we will start our process. We have worked hard on this to try to generate as much information for the public as we can. We have a series of questions; please do your best to answer them. Patricia Moore: For the record, we have not been presented with these questions in advance. It would have been certainly helpful to have these questions so we could provide a complete answer, but we will do our best. Donald Wilcenski: Understood. Whatever you cannot answer tonight, we will be requesting that you submit something in writing to answer the questions. We will send you a letter with all the questions we have. We will start with Bill. William Cremers: Previously, you said that the site had 34 acres. The site we are talking about has 14.9. What's happening on the other parcels? Southold Town Planning Board Page Eleven July 1, 2013 Matthew Metz: That's where we have the other farm for all the vines. You could probably scroll down and see it if you can move the map around. Go to the right. There it is right there on Depot Lane. It's right across from the church. Wililam Cremers: So how do they relate to the site plan we are talking about? Patricia Moore: Part of your production. Matthew Metz: Correct. William Cremers: That has nothing to do with our site plan. Patricia Moore: To the extent that the site plan is dealing with the wine tasting, it does have a relationship with the fact that it's a farm winery and it is part of the definition of the farm winery. So, it has a relationship but, as far as site plan goes, the public doesn't generally go on that field. Is that correct, Matt? Matthew Metz: That's correct. William Cremers: You mentioned about the pole barn and that there'd be no water or things like that, but you said they would have electricity. What is the electricity for? Patricia Moore: Lights. William Cremers: Just lights? Patricia Moore: Just lights. William Cremers: OK. You mentioned earlier that there is a letter to the limousine companies to advise them of the manner of operation and Vineyard 48 rules. May we get a copy of that letter? Patricia Moore: Yes. I believe it was attached to my original submission-the first submission to the Board. But if not, I will certainly make a copy available. It may be already in your file, but we will submit it again if you'd like. William Cremers: At the last meeting also our counsel asked how many people do you envision to be on site at your busiest times. I don't know if you answered that or you were going to get an answer. Patricia Moore: Well, I want to say it's a very difficult answer to give, only because you don't ask this question of Krupski Farms: how many people come..... Southold Town Planning Board Page Twelve July 1, 2013 Donald Wilcenski: Pat, I'm going to stop you again because we are here speaking about Vineyard 48. We are not speaking of.... Patricia Moore: No, I understand that, but I am not name-calling, it's stating a fact. Donald Wilcenski: If you could please just answer the question. Patricia Moore: We had previously provided for you in writing that the buildings themselves are intended to accommodate 518 people. I'm going by my memory rather than by my notes. Is it 518? Matthew Metz: Yes. Patricia Moore: So that was given to you some time ago and we confirmed it. The issue of having people out in the field is always an interesting dilemma because when you are dealing with open air and agricultural operation, you are not counting occupancy. In a certain sense, it's the relationship of parking to the number of people. We believe that we've accommodated for the number of people that we can anticipate by the parking. But you're dealing with agricultural uses that are seasonal and it is an unfair question and an unfair burden to put on any winery for seasonal uses. Again, 1 would refer throughout the Town to all the other wineries and the parking in the fields and agricultural uses of "You Pick." No matter what it is, it is outside and there's no occupancy per se. It is accommodating the seasonal use. That's why it's so difficult to answer. We are dealing with typical site plan requirements and we've tried to accommodate based on the Code and meet all of the Code definitions. But the Town seems to change the definitions and the rules--it's a moveable target, very difficult to address. That's why we are trying to site plan in what I think are the rules that have been historically used on site plan review. Again, we are constantly reacting. Frank Isler, special counsel to the Planning Board: All the Planning Board needs to ascertain from the question they are asking you is: what do you envision the largest population on your busiest day at the site so that we can make determinations as to adequacy of your site plan. We are not asking anything other than what are your planning goals, what do you envision as the most people on your site on your busiest time seasonally. Are you going to give us an answer to that number or not? Patricia Moore: Seasonally we have already given the 518 based on the building occupancy. Frank Isler: So your answer to the question Bill asked is 518 will be the maximum number of people you envision on your busiest day at the busiest hour. Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirteen July 1, 2013 Matthew Metz: That would be at one time. I'm not saying that number for the whole day. Patricia Moore: It is a snapshot of a moment in time. We are anticipating the snapshot to be 518. Frank Isler: That's all I'm asking. That would be the largest number of people you envision at any one time at your property. Matthew Metz: That's a very hard question. I don't know. I know you want a number, but you're asking me on speculation what I think. What if my busiest day is October 15 and it rains. If I base it on when it rains, nobody shows up. So that's very hard. For any other farm, somebody's going to ask: How many people do you expect to show up today to pick strawberries? I don't think anybody can give you an answer. Frank Isler: We are not asking you the question of what will actually happen. We are a Planning Board. So we are charged with dealing with site plans and the number of people that are going to be at the property in the most optimistic projection to determine whether or not the site can accommodate that number. That doesn't mean they are actually going to come because it may rain. We understand that. But you have to plan for the biggest crowd. That's why we are asking you the question: what do you envision on the most ideal day when your busiest crowd comes-what would that number be-- and (believe your counsel has said 518. I'm just confirming that's your number. Patricia Moore: The question has not been that: it's been: "What's your occupancy?" And we have given the occupancy. You are asking: "What is the maximum number of people?" It's difficult; you are asking something of a seasonal use that quite frankly you have never asked anyone else before. And, quite frankly, I think should be a significant problem to any winery or any agricultural use in this community. Because what most agricultural uses and agro-tourism uses are trying to do is provide overflow area that can shrink and contract depending on the cars that come in. We have designed a parking area that we think will work. Could it be accommodating another 2500 cars? Of course it could. Just like any one of your agricultural operations or other wineries can accommodate other cards depending. What we are trying to do is site plan for the average high rather than the extraordinary high. Because if you were to site plan for the extraordinary high, you would be back to like Riverhead used to do on Route 48 and in front of the old newspaper building where the entire parking area in front of the building was a sea of parking. That's not what any agricultural operation--nor in particular Mr. Metz--or any winery wants to do. So I think your question-and I understand your asking for parameters-and we believe that the parameters we have given you in this Site Plan Amendment gives flexibility, but also accommodates and deals with all of your standard site plan criteria that is regulated in the Code. When we Southold Town Planning Board Pape Fourteen July 1, 2013 applied-when we prepared the site plan-I was methodical in going through the list of site plan criteria to make sure that even things that really quite frankly we were over-site planning, we put in the site plan. So, it's an unfair question-it's a question that you'd better be prepared to ask absolutely every other winery, every farm stand, every sunflower operation, every pumpkin picking operation. You cannot discriminate. Donald Wilcenski: OK. Frank Isler: OK. Let's accept your qualification. You were going to give us a number of not your most extreme day but your most optimistic whatever your description was. What would that number be? The one you just described as something that you're planning for? Just give us........if you have one. Patricia Moore: We can accommodate very easily in the back. What we're trying to do is provide occupancy of buildings and an area where the public is going to stay. Obviously it becomes unattractive to the public at large to come on and there's wall to wall people in that area. Frank Isler: Just to cut it short and I'll move onto something else; is there a maximum number that you have in your operational plan that you will not exceed regardless of site plan requirements. Patricia Moore: Those are typically dealt with as special events; and that's how it has been handled in the past. We understand that when it reaches a certain level where it can't be handled by normal operating procedures, my client has applied for special events. Frank Isler: What is the number that would then trigger it? We just want... Matthew Metz: It's really not a number I don't think; it's a special event. If you're having a special event. Frank Isler: Not what the number is for a special event but your counsel just said there's a number that would then trigger it into a special event. I'm asking what's the number that would before you trigger a special event the one less person before you now are in a special event. What's that number? Matthew Metz: I look at it a little different. If I'm going to have a special event, I'm anticipating a lot of people. It's not that I'm going to go over a certain number. I'm expecting maybe to triple the amount of people I have there. So therefore that would be a special event. I'm not basing on if I have 400 people I may have 401 people so it's a special event. I'm not going through all that hoopla regulations and expense of gearing up for a special event to hope I get one more person in. Southold Town Planning Board Paae Fifteen July 1, 2013 Frank Isler: So you're not going to give us the number. Patricia Moore: I don't think....... Donald Wilcenski: (interrupting) OK, listen we will move on. Bill, do you have any more questions? William Cremers: Do you plan on having private parties: weddings or anything like that at the winery? Matthew Metz: Last year I had a wedding there and it went to the Town and it was 65 people and they said I didn't have to get a special event because it was under the number. So that's the only wedding I had so far. William Cremers: When people enter the tasting room, are they required to pay at that point? I think you said something about a coin...... Matthew Metz: This is what happens: when people come in through the arbor into the tasting room, I have two people there. One is checking ID and another person-what you do is, when you come in you pay for your tastings. We give you four gold coins. That is for four tastings. Here's your coins: taste at your leisure. Because we don't want to make let's say a group of ten comes in then we have to bring them to the bar: OK everybody do their four tastings-They can taste at their own leisure. As long as they have a gold coin, they get a tasting. They get four of them in a little plastic bag. William Cremers: So they collect the money right there where you do the counting and give them the coins. Matthew Metz: We give them the coins right there. That is for the tastings. Patricia Moore: And pregnant women and... Matthew Metz: Pregnant women, little kids, obviously-you can get little kids there- and everybody that comes in that's above 21--we stamp their hand because we discourage people under 21 from coming in. But if you get afamily--let's say a couple 35 years old are gonna come with their kids-they're 4 or 5 years old and we know they can't drink... William Cremers: So they don't get stamped. Matthew Metz: No. We give them little plastic toys to play with. Southold Town Planning Board Page Sixteen July 1, 2013 William Cremers: Another thing: in the summer and in the fall the wineries close at sunset on Saturday and 6 p.m. on Sunday. First question is: what happens in the Spring? You said summer and fall. Matthew Metz: On our license with the SIA, the maximum to stay open is until 7:00 at night on Saturdays, every other day it's at 6:00. In the Fall, at 4:30 it's dark, so when it gets dark, people leave. In the Spring, it's not really a big time for wineries. We are just starting to get going and we're usually done on a Saturday well before 6:00. At 6:00 we're locked up-see ya later. William Cremers: A month ago was Spring; we just had Summer on June 21. What were they hours before June 21? Matthew Metz: On Saturdays, except for the last couple, it was done at 6:00 at night. Sundays by 5:00 we try to wind it down; by 5 or 5:10 there's no more music at all; everything gets wound down. Patricia Moore: May I just put on the record that certainly there is no objection to answering your questions on this. However, now you are addressing manner of operation rather than site plan issues. So I would just raise that as an issue. Secondly, William Cremers: I was bringing up an issue that you stated in your opening statement. Patricia Moore: With respect to the complaints that the neighborhood has raised, the complaints are generally that any activity ends by a certain hour. So I want to put complaints into context of the period of time when the winery is actually open for business and there is clientele. We are not dealing with an operation that is 12 at night-even 11:00 at night. So, I just want to provide a context of the time frame. That is my purpose. Donald Wilcenski: OK. But Pat, we're also here just to try to answer as many questions... Patricia Moore: Fine; I have to create a record that establishes what the parameters are. So, again, I point out he obviously has no problem answering these questions. Donald Wilcenski: OK. Bill, anything else? William Cremers: Yes. You say it's closed. What do you mean by closed at 7:00 or 5:00. Matthew Metz: The doors are shut. They're locked. The employees leave. No one is there. Southold Town Planning Board Page Seventeen July 1, 2013 William Cremers: No one is there after that hour. Matthew Metz: Correct. Let me rephrase that. Occasionally I go there at night and fix something that's broken that happened during the day. But nobody's there. William Cremers: OK. One of your other statements was that the winery operates primarily during daylight hours. Now, when does it operate outside daylight hours? Patricia Moore: I guess if there is a wedding, he might be beyond daylight hours. But that would be in the wintertime or fall, right? Matthew Metz: Right. The one wedding we had last year started at 6, it was over at 11. William Cremers: I think that's all I have. Heather Lanza: At the last hearing, you referenced patrons touring the vineyard. These questions are in reference to that: Is there a specific organized tour that's given? Patricia Moore: What I referred to was that the limousines are going along the east end of Long Island and patronizing the different vineyards. Is that what... Heather Lanza: Oh, so it wasn't that there are actually tours of the vineyard? Patricia Moore: No, no, no. You don't do tours of your vineyard, no. Heather Lanza: No tours of the vineyard. OK., so there's no tours of the winemaking facilities or are there? Patricia Moore: Inside, of course. But I'm thinking vineyard: walking through the vines. Heather Lanza: That's what I was originally referring to. OK., so that was just a misunderstanding. Do you allow patrons to go unsupervised in the vines? Matthew Metz: No we don't. And to make it even further: we put up signs in the general area where the people congregate along the vines, plus we have security guards walking to have a straight look to see if somebody's going to walk in the vines. If they do, they grab them and bring them out. So, signs are posted and we have security. Heather Lanza: OK. Now, when you do the wine tasting for those individual wine tastings where you pour a little taste of wine into a cup. Do you have staff that explain the different wines to people while they do the tasting? Southold Town Planning Board Paae Eighteen July 1, 2013 Matthew Metz: Correct. Plus we have tasting menus where people read them and we explain what type of wine it is. Heather Lanza: OK. Then, some wineries sell entire bottles that they allow people to consume on the premises. Do you do that? Matthew Metz: We do that also. Heather Lanza: Do you sell other beverages with alcohol in them? Matthew Metz: We sell beer. Patricia Moore: All within the scope of the liquor: farm winery-I think you explained Matthew Metz: Farm winery: as long as they buy a beer that is produced from a local brewery (which I do) or is distributed by a New York distributor (which I don't do). I keep it with the local breweries. Heather Lanza: OK., so the Sangria that you sell. What's in that? Matthew Metz: That's wine. Heather Lanza: and what else? Patricia Moore: And you actually produce that. Heather Lanza: Just generally, what else is in it? Matthew Metz: Wine, ice, a little bit of fruit. If you go to my winery and you want to buy a bottle of Sangria, it's a sealed bottle of Sangria. Heather Lanza: Oh, just cause I've seen the frozen one. You know, the pitcher? Matthew Metz: That is basically the Sangria that we freeze. We sell Sangria. Heather Lanza: OK. But when you sell it by the pitcher do you know how many ounces are in that pitcher? Matthew Metz: Offhand I would assume it would probably be like 36 ounces, somewhere around there. Heather Lanza: OK. So, the Sangria is actually a bottled product. Southold Town Planning Board Page Nineteen Julv 1, 2013 Matthew Metz: I have it bottled. Heather Lanza: Oh, I see. OK. So, can you tell us, do you know how many glasses of wine a pitcher of Sangria equals? Matthew Metz: No, because if it's frozen, it's like a Slurpee. If you are referring to the frozen ones, I guess you'd have to let it all thaw out before you know. Heather Lanza: I see. How much do you charge for a bottle of wine, generally? Matthew Metz: It all varies. I don't think that really matters--what I charge. Heather Lanza: OK. How much for a pitcher of Sangria? Matthew Metz: I don't think that really has anything to do with the site plan. Heather Lanza: Do you have any idea what portion of the overall revenue comes from the sale of the Sangria? Matthew Metz: I don't think it's really relevant. Donald Wilcenski: We have the right to look into your sales because it's part of Ags & Markets. You should be aware of it-I'm sure you're aware of it. A certain percentage has to be produced on site. That's why the question was asked. Matthew Metz: All of it is produced on site. Patricia Moore: That's the clarification. He is actually producing it. Sangria is a product just like the wine that Vineyard 48 makes-it's all produced on site. I think that when we rely on the newspaper and blogs for our information it gets a little distorted. I saw those photographs as well, and it was..... Heather Lanza: It didn't happen, is that what you are trying to say? Patricia Moore: No, no no, it was a misrepresentation I thought. Heather Lanza: There's no frozen pitchers of Sangria being sold? Patricia Moore: No, there certainly are, but it's a misrepresentation that it's somehow or other unauthorized and not a permitted use. Heather Lanza: That's not what I'm saying; I'm just asking some questions about it so we can get some facts. Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty July 1, 2013 Patricia Moore: OK. The facts are that they produce it. Heather Lanza: Do you have any idea just related to this now-I didn't realize that Sangria came in a bottle, so it's not your regular wine where you pour....... Matthew Metz: You can buy Sangria there; it comes in a regular bottle, sealed, and everything. Heather Lanza: So then I guess a different question I would ask, what I'm trying to get at is: how much wine tasting do you sell versus the frozen pitchers of Sangria? Do you have any clue like what proportion? Matthew Metz: I really don't have a clue, but I guarantee you one thing: in the winter I'm not selling any frozen Sangria. Heather Lanza: OK. I hear you. Thank you. Do you grow-and I think you just said this, but I just want to make sure because I was writing something and I didn't hear it- do you grow all the grapes that make the wine you sell? Matthew Metz: Yes. Heather Lanza: OK. Do you sell other items besides beer and wine and you were talking about soda and such, but other items? Matthew Metz: Soda and water. Heather Lanza: Not beverages; in addition to beverages. Patricia Moore: It's a possibility for hard cider. Heather Lanza: No, not beverages; things in addition to beverages. Anywhere on site. Patricia Moore: Are you asking about the cigars? Heather Lanza: Yeah. Are cigars something that you sell? Patricia Moore: We have a small retail store which has the humidors and he sells cigars. I think I put in writing the reason why the cigars are separate from the wine tasting because the age requirement for the cigars is different from the wine tasting. So for cigars you can be 18; whereas the wine obviously you have to be 21. Heather Lanza: That's fine, but I'm wondering do you sell other items, too, beside cigars? Tee shirts.... Southold Town Plannino Board Page Twenty-One July 1, 2013 Matthew Metz: Occasionally we sell things you put the wine corks in-I don't know what they call them-but they're made out of metal. And we do sell these bags that you freeze, so if people want to put their wine in them. That's basically it. Patricia Moore: All accessories for wine. Matthew Metz: Painted wine glasses that an artist does, if that's what you're referring to. Heather Lanza: OK. And do you know with reference to the cigar sales-what portion of your overall revenues from cigars? Matthew Metz: That's a separate company. Heather Lanza: It's a separate company? Patricia Moore: But it's also a very small percentage of his sales. It's already reviewed by the Building Department and it was acknowledged that it was an accessory unit which has a CO and has all its approvals. During the time of the litigation it was being alleged that it was illegal. Meanwhile, the Building Department had already ruled-- reviewed it and acknowledged that the small area where the humidor is was part of the original sales area before the tasting room was constructed. So it was all previously site planned as the retail area; it is their original retail area. So, it's quite small and it was very... Heather Lanza: I was just asking about the sales, really. I'm done with my questions. Martin Sidor: I've got a couple of questions on parking. Trying to consolidate some of this. Patricia Moore: Sure. Martin Sidor: How many cars do you allow to park on site and where do you have them park? Patricia Moore: Actually, this is part of my anticipated presentation; the Planning Board in 1995 approved a site plan and that site plan had two factors on it that seem to have been forgotten. It was that the area where my client has had the tents in the past and has maintained the tents throughout, was an area that was actually a courtyard area that was shown on the site plan. Also, it showed overflow parking for crushed bluestone. Quite frankly, I think you should look at your prepared site plan on where Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Two July 1, 2013 the parking is because we've actually shown the parking where it actually is taking place. So the new site plan shows..... Frank Isler: The one you have is different than that. Patricia Moore: No, this is the site plan from 1995 and it's in your records. Heather Lanza: That's the site plan you're talking about? Patricia Moore: The site plan I was referring to that it's been site planned since 1995 and shows 36 (parking) spaces plus an overflow parking area. And it shows the courtyard area where the tents are was approved by this Board-previous Board- since 1995. So, that is already in your records. What we are trying to accommodate now is some modification of that parking area based on practical use what has worked out for you over the years and is now being put on paper. But within the same original area that the parking was laid out. Also, the overflow in the back-the extra overfow for seasonal parking is being provided for you. So, we are attempting to in good faith as I said, to come in with detailed expanded overflow parking. This property has been site planned and has had parking since Day 1-and overflow parking. Frank Isler: Just for clarification because I'm trying to follow what you said: You're holding a site plan from 1999? Patricia Moore: 1995. Frank Isler: There is a site plan from 2006. Is it your position that the site plan you are holding from 1995 is the current parking allowed for the site? Or the 2006 plan? Patricia Moore: That is the original. I understand what you are asking. This is the old original one. It seems that in 2006 there was an "as built" site plan that did some modification of it, but didn't supersede in the sense of eliminating overflow parking. It may have modified the actual placement of the parking. It appears that on the side maybe there were some angling differences. I know that the "as built" provided for the handicapped spaces in the front versus another alternative. But the "as built" that was from 2006 was merely a correction of some of the parking, not a complete abolishment of the parking that was authorized since 1995. That's my position and it appears to be from your own Town records. Frank Isler: That's fine-I was just trying to understand what you were saying. Donald Wilcenski: Marty, anything else? Martin Sidor: So the number is 34. Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Three July 1, 2013 Patricia Moore: Well, the number on this plan is 36, plus overflow parking. Martin Sidor: Where is the overflow parking? What do you do when..... Patricia Moore: Right behind the processing building. I will show you. The Town's records are not the most clear things, but I can only rely on... Donald Wilcenski: OK. Marty, anything else? I want to try to keep this moving. Martin Sidor: The same questions as far as the buses and limos: how do you account for all of that and what do you do when your internal space is full? Patricia Moore: OK. We did actually provide in the most recent site plan extra space for limos and for buses. Because there were some complaints from one of the neighbors about idling noise or music in a bus or limo that was bothering them, we tried to come up with some proactive solutions. When the limos or buses come in, we can't force them to stay on site. Particularly where his vineyard is--it's usually at the end of the run of the east of the vineyards that have come from the west and have stopped in Mattituck and Cutchogue and eventually end up at Vineyard 48. So, the practical effect of that was that some of the limos and buses would leave offsite to get drinks or food- evenjust to go out and find a quiet place to relax and leave their vehicle idling with air conditioning. So what we provided for is we made arrangements with Peconic Recycling Transfer Station, which is owned by DiVello, and because it was on Commerce Drive which is an industrial site. In my review of those site plans I could see that the Planning Board had thoroughly reviewed not only the recycling site that's there, but also a second lot in the industrial section right next to the dump. You reviewed that site plan to accommodate trucks and trailers for the recycling operation, so it seemed to me because the site plan had already accommodated all that and you, in your own site plan review, had directed where those trucks and Peconic Recycling vehicles would go, they were directed to go out to Route 48. All that being said, they had a good working relationship with DiVello; he does the carting for Vineyard 48. He also rented on a month-to-month as-needed basis to provide an alternate site for the limos and buses if they wanted a quiet place because they were dropping off people, stopping, possibly idling in air conditioning, taking a nap, whatever the case might be. It was 1,000 feet from residents, it was an industrial site next to the landfill. We couldn't imagine there being any objection to that. But what we found is-and this is part of my presentation but I'll go right to it-it's been in a sense-the Town has been-and I don't know who in the Town was obstructing that effort to solve the problem to be practical and proactive. They threatened DiVello that they would pull their site plan if he continued to allow Vineyard 48 to park there. I thought that was quite "un-sportsman-like" in a clean way of saying it. Quite frankly, we were trying to be proactive and dealing with the vehicles that-as I said they are not forced to stay on site-some of them do-we have the Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Four Julv 1, 2013 parking for those that want to stay. But others go off; they might go to Mattituck shopping center or Cutchogue and get a piece of pizza. So, rather than having limos that might stop anywhere that are legally allowed to park other places--they are legally allowed to park on the streets on public roads and they are legally allowed to park on Route 48-we offered them an alternate site that we thought would both work well for Peconic Recycling since their business is closed on the weekends and there is no activity on Commerce Drive-all the businesses there are weekday businesses, industrial site, and have been site plan thoroughly for large trucks and large vehicles. So that was our effort to try to deal with the practical aspect of running a business. We feel that we are complying with the Code providing on site. But let's be realistic: there are practical ways of solving issues as well, and that was one of our practical solutions. Martin Sidor: And I don't want to get cute here, but you did state in the minutes that you did send-and I don't have the exact wording here-at the June 3 hearing you did state that cars were sent off site. So now it's limos and buses. Patricia Moore: Not cars-it was the limos. Matthew Metz: Because if the cars were sent off site, the people would have to walk across. So it's the limos, they have their own driver-send them out on their way. Martin Sidor: But you also realize-and let me get this right--in the Town Code Section 270-78 that all parking shall be provided on the same lot as the use. Patricia Moore: And we do. But I will also point out that at Town Code Section 280-78 it says "Joint Facilities: required parking spaces open or enclosed may be provided in spaces designed to serve jointly two or more establishments whether or not located on the same lot, provided that the number of required spaces in such joint facilities shall not be less than the total required for all such establishments." So, knowing that there is some flexibility in our Code to allow other-it happens with restaurants all the time as it may be necessary for a particular business-you have the businesses on Main Road that sometimes the restaurant right there on Main Road-Wayside-it's very common, it's a practical approach. And in this instance we had DiVello; it was a great symbiotic relationship between a contractor for Vineyard 48 and an isolated site. Those cars have to travel (based on that site plan approval)--the trucks have to travel--south to 48, so we are talking about within throwing distance of the vineyard but practically, using the main highway--non-residential areas--and, quite frankly, it's next to the dump. That's as innocuous as it can be. But we are providing parking on site. Martin Sidor: I would be remiss. I would need legal interpretation on that. I think some of that wording in there is key on how that can be... Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Five Julv 1.2013 Patricia Moore: I refer you to (Section) 280-278; it's the same area..... Frank Isler: I think counsel is putting her interpretation of the Code and I think there are clearly other readings that Code can be given. She's entitled to state what she believes it says. Patricia Moore: I welcome you to read that section of the Code because it's pretty straightforward. Donald Wilcenski: Marty, anything else? Martin Sidor: No, that's it. Thank you. Donald Wilcenski: I just have a couple of quick things about music: a lot of complaints about loud music seems to be probably the most contentious I would think. Maybe not. But anyway, do you have live music-live bands-or is it just DJ's or both? Matthew Metz: Just a DJ. And we have decibel meter readings. We had complaints this year; the cops showed up and the cops told us they couldn't hear the music, so we didn't get any tickets. Just because somebody complains doesn't mean it's a violation. Donald Wilcenski: OK. Patricia Moore: I would also point out that with the noise, I think we are certainly dealing with site plan issues today to avoid going back in time on issues and complaints that were raised in 2011 and 2012. I think most of the complaints...... Donald Wilcenski: Pat, I want to try to keep this to the point. I asked whether it was music or DJ; he answered the question. How many employees do you have serving alcohol on a normal weekend? Matthew Metz: On a normal weekend I would say around six. Donald Wilcenski: There's six people serving-that's it? Matthew Metz: Yes. Donald Wilcenski: And what type of training does the staff-those six people-and I'm sure you have probably more than six-but... Matthew Metz: No, no, no seriously. Right now this time of year I have two people behind the tasting bar and I have three pourers who just do the tasting. So that's five. So I'm throwing an extra one in. Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Six July 1, 2013 Donald Wilcenski: OK. So what type of training and do you have any records of the training that your staff has to serve people to know if they are inebriated or if they have had enough to drink. Matthew Metz: Our new manager there has owned several restaurants and has sat down with these people. My new manager is walking around. Obviously if people come in drunk they don't get served. It's really not that hard to figure out. He watches over them and he talks to them and he did his own in-house training with them. Donald Wilcenski: So you have in-house training; you don't send your....it's all done. Matthew Metz: My manager had his own restaurants in the past, so he was professionally trained. Therefore we depend on him. Donald Wilcenski: OK. That's all I have. Patricia Moore: There's also-I think that you have security staff as well-so I would clarify that there is additional security, so maybe... Matthew Metz: When they come in, everybody gets their license checked; I don't care if they are 60 years old. That's a way of seeing if the person is intoxicated or inebriated coming in. Because you gotta realize they go to two other places; they're not just coming to my place. Usually the average wine tour they go to three places. Plus-and I'm not blaming the other wineries-these people--when you get a limo, there's booze in the limo. So we don't want them coming in drunk. Donald Wilcenski: I understand that. But that's also why we are here. Because those are the problems that are outside of your hands, but we have to take that into consideration as well. I have nothing else. Jim? James Rich: A couple of questions about security. How many security personnel do you have? Matthew Metz: It varies. Right now, to be honest, from December to March there was really no security there because we really don't have any customers. Now, when April comes around we only have security on the weekends because during the week it's very light. As of--do you want me to go from last week for an example? James Rich: Yes. Matthew Metz: OK. Last week on Saturday I had seven security people there. One to control traffic, the other six to keep an eye on what's going on. On Sunday, which is a lighter day, I had three security guards. Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Seven July 1, 2013 James Rich: What are the specific functions of security? Matthew Metz: OK. On Saturday, we have one security outfit that patrols-makes sure no one is parking on the shoulder. Even if it's another limo from somebody else because there are times they just pull over and sit there for 15 minutes then leave. So just to keep them flowing and to make sure people are flowing in and out of the parking lot so there is no backup on the road. That's what one person does. The other six: one of them I said checks ID's and checks everybody making sure they are legal. The other guys stand as I said before to make sure nobody walks in the vines, everybody stays in their areas, and there's no altercations. James Rich: Is the one who checks ID's the same one who sells the four gold coins? Matthew Metz: No, no, no, no. We have security. I have a security guard who checks ID. The person with the coins, that person works for me. So there's two people right there. You have one checking licenses and the other one giving out the gold coins. James Rich: OK. Are the security people hired by you; are they hired by an agency? Matthew Metz: I hire them. I hire the agency; they are brought in. The one for traffic is called Suburban Security and the other one is Alpha One. James Rich: At what point do they call the police if they need help or assistance? Matthew Metz: Over the last three years, my managers have called the police-not the security when somebody was trying to sneak in liquor and stuff like that. It's on the incident reports. Patricia Moore: I could answer that if you'd like. This is the FOIL of the Town Police record of all the wineries. Each of these folders represents a different winery. When the public calls the police, the police respond. They write an incident report. You can have a standard traffic stop that happens to occur in front of a winery and it will get an incident report that is... James Rich: You're not answering the question. I asked at what point do they call the police. Patricia Moore: I'm going to get to that, I'm giving a little background. I have for example this year we are being penalized but in fact Vineyard 48 called the police because they were enforcing the rules and the law. In February, somebody came in their limousine and somebody stepped on somebody's foot and they started a little altercation inside the limo. By the time they got to the facility, somebody-one of the girls in the limo wanted to call the police. So that person called the police. Vineyard 48 Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Eight July 1, 2013 had not even allowed them out of their limo. They came in-they were being asked to leave and in fact they called the police when they were refusing to leave. So that was an incident report. They called the police for assistance. Another incident report was where the manager asked somebody to get in their limo or bus and leave and they were refusing to do so. In that instance, the manager called the police. James Rich: Not the security but the manager? Patricia Moore: The manager, because that was in May when Vineyard 48 is relatively quiet. There is another one on June 15. This was supposedly a big deal...... James Rich: I think you've answered our question. Let me ask you this: if you have altercations or situations that security is required to break up? Matthew Metz: When we have people that start arguing, they are told to separate the two parties or groups and tell them both to leave. Unfortunately when you have liquor sometimes there have been tussles, but that happens at any winery. Patricia Moore: There actually-as to Vineyard 48 and reviewing all of them, there aren't that many altercations between patrons. James Rich: In your opinion, should security identify people who are intoxicated or is that the sole responsibility of the bartenders. Matthew Metz: No, that's a combination of both. James Rich: You stated on June 3 the number of persons on site was counted. Can Vineyard 48 provide the Town with those numbers from that date? Matthew Metz: What happens is--you gotta realize that it's throughout the whole day. A count of it goes in and a count of it goes out. So we can monitor how many people are there. So that would give what's there during the day, not at one given time. James Rich: Do you have a limit to how many you will allow in the place at any one given time? Matthew Metz: We try to comply with the law and stay within the law. James Rich: As the owner, you must know what that limit is. Southold Town Plannino Board Page Twenty-Nine Julv 1, 2013 Matthew Metz: I absolutely do: it's 251. Not including the outside. Pat can answer that. James Rich: How many total employees are on the site during your busiest time including security. Matthew Metz: Are you talking the owners-with all the owners? Because the owners do work. Even though we don't get paid. James Rich: OK. All right. Matthew Metr: I would say total probably 25-30. James Rich: Six bartenders, seven security--that's 13; you have 15 other people doing something else? Matthew Metz: Correct. James Rich: 17 other people? What do those other people do? Matthew Metz: Well, you said at the busiest time, correct? James Rich: Yes. Matthew Metz: I said at this time. The Fall is a busier time of year than now. If somebody asks me how many people I have working there now-I believe that was the question, wasn't it? James Rich: Well, the question I asked is how many total employees you have on site during the busiest time-how many bartenders would you have on site during the busiest time? Matthew Metz: Maybe eight. James Rich: OK. And how many security people would you have at the busiest time? Matthew Metz: That all depends on the weather and stuff. I have at times had upward of 12-14 security guards if it appears it's going to be busy. James Rich: So you have to order security... Matthew Metz: It's very simple; it's a phone call right to the company. Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty July 1, 2013 James Rich: How much notice do they have to have? Matthew Metz: Two days. James Rich: So you must have some indication of how many people you're going to have in advance. Matthew Metz: No, I go by the weather. Because the weather will destroy it if it's going to rain. James Rich: I have no further questions. Pierce Raffertv: Could you talk about whether food is served and are there any fees for food? Matthew Metz: There's no fees or charge for anything. Donald Wilcenski: But do you have food for sale-I mean do you serve food? Matthew Metz: What, like potato chips which is a food and stuff like that-we have them floating around. Pierce Raffertv: You don't sell food? Matthew Metz: No, we do not sell food. We don't want nothing to do with food. Pierce Raffertv: OK. That was the question. Slightly related question: what kind of bathroom facilities are provided on site? Patricia Moore: In the building, there are presently two with two more being constructed right now which we have permits for. So, four interior bathrooms and then there are two other ones in the other building. Matthew Metz: And then we have four port-o-sans. Patricia Moore: Yes. And port-o-potties as a backup. Pierce Raffertv: Where are the port-o-sans located on the site? Are they scattered? Matthew Metz: No, no, no no. I have them-basically, if you are familiar with the site, where the production facility is-in the back-the big metal building. If you are looking at the vineyard from the right, they're lined up right back there. Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-One Julv 1, 2013 Pierce Raffertv: OK. How long have those been on the site? Matthew Metz: A little over one month. Because I only got billed for (inaudible) Pierce Raffertv: Are there permits for those; and if so, would you mind sharing? Matthew Metz: There are no permits. Pierce Raffertv: No permits, OK. Patricia Moore: There is no permit required for aport-a-san. I'm just clarifying. Pierce Raffertv: Very good. Have you consulted with any experts about the sanitation needs for the numbers that you have. Patricia Moore: I can answer that. We actually have an engineer. We submitted to the Health Department because it was for the pole barn. Otherwise, we wouldn't have needed to get Health Department approval. But because of the pole barn, we submitted an application to the Health Department. They have acknowledged receipt. We had Joe Fischetti doing the analysis, but there is no need for any additions or expansions of the existing system. It is all compliant. So, assuming that the Health Department agrees with our engineer, then there should be no need for any modification to the existing sanitary system. Pierce Raffertv: So, the Health Department has whatever the recommendations were of your consulting engineer? Patricia Moore: It's a full application--$1,200 fee. Pierce Raffertv: Now some of this may be addressed so forgive me. On the site plan, you have a line of parking for cars by the road, a queuing line for buses, a second queue for limos and a third for cars. I perhaps am misinterpreting something, but are people exiting from those lines ever exposed to four lanes of traffic? In other words, is anyone coming into your facility crossing so is no one exiting and crossing those lanes of traffic? Patricia Moore: The queuing is inside the facility. But it is all completely monitored so that the cars and buses are allowed to disembark by directive. Pierce Raffertv: So you never have people that are crossing... Patricia Moore: No we are not going to have somebody crossing in front of a car that's about to pull out. Nope. That's right. Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Two July 1.2013 Pierce Raffertv: What about the four lanes of queuing that are proposed on the new plan? Are you proposing to remove any of the grass or vines in the front to accommodate. Patricia Moore: No, we were able to fit everything in. Pierce Raffertv: I see. All right. I don't have any other questions. Donald Wilcenski: Mark, do you have anything? Mark TerN: How do you communicate with the limousines--designate them to the parking areas and how do you call them back in? Matthew Metz: We have two major limousine companies that come to our place. This has been the policy we have set up: I can go through the papers-so you can submit it--where they sign everything they're supposed to do. Patricia Moore: I think practically you're asking, correct? Mark Terry: Yes. Patricia Moore: Do you use a cellphone or pagers, or what? Matthew Metz: As far as what? Mark Terrv: Directing them where to park. Matthew Metz: To park? There's another set of people that direct them where to park. Besides the security. I have four other people directing wearing vests and pointing. Pierce Raffertv: The last time we met, I heard numerous people talking about the K- turns that were going on with the limousines. Where exactly are those K-turns happening, and what's being done to address that, which seems to be a problem in terms of safety and in terms of... Donald Wilcenski: Just to clarify, it was spoken on the record that large vehicles were trying to make U-turns on Route 48 and it became very problematic. Patricia Moore: Yeah. All we can tell you is that these are motor vehicles that are registered in the state of New York. We may all disagree that they are getting longer and stupider, but that's the trend. Donald Wilcenski: The drivers or the cars? Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Three July 1, 2013 Matthew Metz: The cars are getting longer. Patricia Moore: The cars keep getting longer and stupider. My husband and I had a good debate about that one. The practical effect is that if they go west, obviously they have to either make a turn on 48 or they go up to one of the roads and make a right, depending on their mode of turning to their particular site. Making U-turns on CR 48 is specifically an allowed-it's legal. The police sometimes park themselves there and they might issue aticket-and other times there is no ticket that can be issued because what they are doing is legal. CR 48 is a truck route and it is a through highway. So, other than trying to encourage them to use common sense--these cars, once there on the public highway, can decide to go up all the way in front of Sang Lee Farm and pick up some vegetables and then make a U-turn there. So, we really have very little control over them. Donald Wilcenski: OK. Anybody else from the Board have any other questions? Heather Lanza: I have one quick one. Can you just clarify when you were talking about the parking right now on site and how you are using it. Are you saying that you park according to that 1995 site plan? Like, that's where people park or something similar? Patricia Moore: What I'm saying is that there have been representations to the Court that we somehow only have 32 spaces of parking. That is not correct based on the Town's own records. I was pointing out that behind the building was intended to be overflow parking. So, we are putting on paper where the most practical areas are for parking, and I think we have identified a number of spaces behind the building rather than just generic overflow parking, which is what the site plan provided for. And we are providing additional overflow parking down... Heather Lanza: That's for the future: I was just asking about currently what you are doing now. So currently what you are doing now is.... Patricia Moore: In practice, we are trying to operate under the same parking regulations that we are providing-the design that we are providing to you. But with certainly the limitation that the Town has represented to the Court that we have only 32 spaces. We are trying to comply. Heather Lanza: Thank you. That's all. Donald Wilcenski: OK. At this time, Pat, I know you want to speak, but I'd like to give the audience a chance to speak. Please, people, you have heard these questions and not that we don't want to hear you, and if you feel like you have to say again what you had to say last time, feel free. OK? It's a public hearing and we don't want you to not be heard. Anybody? Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Four July 1, 2013 Joseph Zuhoski, Sr., 5455 Depot Lane: The people are not telling the truth. At the last meeting, a statement was made by the owner they don't charge admission. They do charge people that go into their premise. And if they have 14 people on security, why are they going in the vineyard and still having their sex acts? Security is very, very lax. On June 16 there were three police cars there at 6:20 p.m. There was a fisticuffs going on and one man was arrested. That's all I have to say. Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anybody else from the audience. Step up, please. State and write your name for the record, please. Thank you. Rita Fipurnick, Horseshoe Drive. Cutchoque: I would just like to present a picture to the Board: this was taken one week on Saturday right after the meeting on June 8. That was taken in the afternoon right outside my driveway where the vehicle was parked there left idling; my dog was barking. The following Saturday I went outside to look and the man is out there with his limousine idling and he was actually waxing it. Here are some pictures of that on a Saturday afternoon as well. I definitely question their aspect of what security is. Last Fall, just at sundown--my son plays travel baseball for Peconic-he was taken home by his coach. In the vehicle was one of my son's coaches, my at the time 14-year-old son, and his younger brother, 13. They are traveling on Route 48, the sun is going down. As they are approaching Vineyard 48, a vehicle comes out of the vineyard and makes alert-hand turn and starts heading directly towards the vehicle that my son is coming home in. The coach at the time, as the vehicle is coming head-on, pulls over to the right hand side as the vehicle can pass as my son gets on his cellphone to call the police to report this incident. The driver, who security let out, drove by. It's upsetting; there is no security. They stand here and they propose all this security; they have this doing this and this doing that. But week after week on Saturdays and Sundays-is it every Saturday and every Sunday that it's a security issue? Absolutely not. But when you're talking about having your child come home after a ball game, whether it could be any of your nephews, your son, your grandson coming home from a simple game and getting hit with a car coming-maybe even head-on directly at you-it's something that I don't sleep very well and comfortably at night and hopefully you will represent our community in making the right decision and providing a safe community for us as well. Thank you. Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anybody else who would like to speak? Bill Shipman, 75 Horseshoe Drive. Cutchoque: Obviously we are here again discussing obviously the hearing that's being held over. We are still in litigation. The court case in Supreme Court was adjourned in June, slightly after the last meeting and doesn't go back until August 21. The State litigation that they are in with State Liquor Authority is also still going on. So I have trouble understanding why we are here tonight discussing this when these three open litigations are open. How can you approve or allow to be approved an amendment to their site plan and their business plan while these three Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Five July 1, 2013 litigations are going on? I could conceive trying to get the information, yes. But if this is approved without these cases being closed, that's criminal in itself. Mrs. Moore was describing the property as 35 acres that's physically separated by multiple acres. So, they are looking at their 500 number or whatever number that they refuse to give because they are going to squeeze as many people as they can onto that property once you approve it, and the parties are going to go on. Us being here is kind of off base here. They still don't have-even though Mrs. Moore says that they do have a liquor license. Yes they do have a liquor license under the State authorization protection act which allows them to operate while they are in litigation with the State Liquor Authority. But she is trying to tell you that they have a current liquor license; they don't. How can you approve a site amendment plan when they don't have a current license? They are allowed to operate while they are in litigation. Do you know how many wineries are in litigation with the liquor authority now in NYS? Want to take a guess? One. Probably there are dozens, probably hundreds of bars that are in litigation, right? This stuff happens. We are not making this up. It is a business that is coming to you now and saying let's forget 2011 and 2012 until we get this approved. And then it's going to go right back to the stuff. A great one I saw on Saturday: a vehicle leaves Vineyard 48. Across the grass median. Hangs a left into the eastbound lane. That's pretty good. That's a new one for this guy. So now, the parking lot we're discussing: if you look at the lower left hand corner where there are no vines planted, that is a gravel lot right now. If you need pictures, I'll have my wife email them to you. Cause I got 'em. They have three tents up right now. They don't have apermit-or nobody on the Town Board will tell me if they have a permit. But I was told they wouldn't be issued permits until litigation was done. There's four tents: three 20X20's and a smaller one. They have an open site plan amendment, right? Under the tent application first page, no tents shall be issued to a site that has an open site amendment or a building permit. Why isn't anybody helping us here? It is the same question that I'll be going to the Town Board wasting another three hours of the week I could be home with my children. But I gotta come here and I gotta fight with people that are doing this interpreting it hundreds of dollars an hour I'm sure to be paid to interpret your Town Codes the way that it's going to benefit her clients. Middle class guy cutting my own lawn I gotta come here spend three hours tonight, pick up my kids from the grandmothers and then put them to bed, right? So 2-1/2 years-totally done. Come to the Town Board meeting tomorrow night. We'll do it again. I've been to countless Town Board meetings. Prior to that, I've never been to one. Why should I? Government is supposed to run itself. But government is not protecting the people. They say-their liquor license says that they have to be closed by 6 p.m. So when they're going to do these weddings, unless they get approval from the liquor authority, they are violating their liquor license. The physical (inaudible) of that parcel cannot isn't going to accommodate what they are trying to do. It will accommodate them so they can make their money, but they're gonna turn the neighborhood upside down. From June 3, did you look at the pictures of the people having sex in our neighbor's back yard? Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Six July 1, 2013 Donald Wilcenski: Yes. Bill Shipman: OK. Help us. I say that to the Town Board every time. Help us. I think this whole plan should be denied until all litigation is completed. There's an attorney sitting up there; I know he's not gonna put his two cents in because he's busy with his case but come on. Donald Wilcenski: I just want to make a comment that this public hearing process is part of the application process. Bill Shipman: I know it's their right, but who is protecting ours? Donald Wilcenski: I just want to make sure that you are aware that this decision isn't being made this week. Bill Shipman: OK. Now, you go into their place and they give you the four gold coins. What if you didn't want to do a wine tasting? They charge you a cover charge, right? Donald Wilcenski: We will ask the owner. I asked Mrs. Moore and the owner answered the question. Bill Shipman: 2011, 2012 until that noise ordinance came in they played that music as loud as they wanted. I could stand on my front yard and listen to it like I was in a club. And you said last time that you live by a vineyard that plays music. I'll trade places with you any day-any day. They are the last stop business. As they said, they start east and they come here. So, he's dealing with the worst of the worst. So my neighborhood gets the worst of the worst. But bring `em in; we're gonna serve 'em, 'cause they have the dollars and cents. Liquor license that they have is a wine tasting license. They're supposed to do tastings. They're serving pails. 32 ounces-probably a little conservative-I've seen the pails. They're probably 64 ounces. So, I don't want to be known as the guy that comes up and the guy that's acting like a jerk, but after 2-1/2 years all I get is: "you can call my office' or "we hear you" or "you have a sympathetic board." Does anyone have any comforting words for me, 'cause I need 'em. Donald Wilcenski: Yes. Everything that's being said here tonight, including what your comments are, are going into the file and this Board is going to render a decision when the time is proper. Bill Shipman: Will we be back next month? Why don't we wait until after 8/21-their next court date. This way you'd give everybody plenty of time. Thank you. Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anybody else? Yes, you can step up to this podium. Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Seven July 1, 2013 Jillann Johnson, Horseshoe Drive: I feel like it's important to come here tonight and support my neighborhood. I don't think a lot of people in my neighborhood probably knew there was a meeting tonight, or I think you'd have a better turnout. We just happened to hear about it. It's important because I feel like when businesses are in a position such as Vineyard 48, it's easier to ask forgiveness rather than permission. And a lot of times that's been demonstrated first hand. There hasn't been a whole lot of commitment until there was actually an issue where the vineyard wasn't able to get their way that now it looks like they want to come to the table and be good neighbors and try and respond to the public. But I believe that if I don't keep coming here and the provisions that they want will go through, we'll be back in the same exact position as we were two years ago. So, yes, I feel like that's the reason why I'm here tonight. I don't want to be-I don't think anybody was really trying to nail the vineyard to the wall, but I do believe that we want to protect what's ours. And that's our neighborhood where our children can play and where we don't have limos parked in front of our houses. I live across the street from Rita, so I know and I can attest that those limos were there. So, if there's a lot of overflow parking, I'm not sure if they know where to go and access it. I don't want to go back to the point where-I haven't heard it this year, but the DJ last year was offering a free bottle of wine for anybody willing to bare their boobs. I don't know who is paying for that-is that from the Vineyard or if the DJ is picking up the tab on that-but it's not right. And I shouldn't have to hear it from inside my kitchen. So, I'll sign off. If we're gonna meet again, we'll meet again. I've talked to some people from some other wineries-there's a lot of kickbacks involved in this business. They are getting kickbacks from the limo companies; there's a lot of pressure from the limo companies because they are getting money up front to take people out here to have places that will support that business. It's kind of a sellout situation and it's pretty corrupt actually. So, that's all I really have to say. I think we're all tired. I know I am. Thank you. Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anyone else? Denise Lademann. 85 Old Saddle Lane: I don't understand how doubling the size of this business allowing them 100 more parking spaces and more toilets is going to make it better for our neighborhood if we're already having these problems at half the size. It's only going to get worse. Even 300 people whispering can be a loud noise. And they're not going to be whispering if they're drinking pitchers of Sangria. You really have to look at our neighborhood as well. Thank you. Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anyone else? Yes. Beth Shipman, 75 Horseshoe Drive: One of the points that I'd like to make is the fact that although they have not been able to give a specific number for how many people they would anticipate on their busiest day, you can go to You Tube and you can see how many people they have had in the past on some of their busiest days. And I can Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Eight July 1, 2013 tell you from police reports that I have seen, that they have exceeded up to-I believe the largest number that I've seen on a police report is 619 people at their business at one time. If that's what they're doing with an occupancy of 251, what are they going to do when their occupancy is over 500? Because that's a major concern to me. And yes, they do-they are behaving right now to some extent. But that's also because this is on the table. And they did the same thing last year when this first started. They behaved for a very short time as long as they had to. And as soon as things were no longer in the limelight, it was business as usual. So once this decision is made, if it is made in their favor, business is going to be as usual and then some. I'm not prepared to raise my children at the Boardy Barn. And I don't think anybody sitting up there would expect me to either. That's really all I have to say. Donald Wilcenski: Anyone else? We hear you. OK. And I don't want to start any cliches that you've heard before, but everything is going into the public record and the Board. We have a ton of information and we hear you, the people-the taxpayers. Miss Moore at this time would you like to make any comments-you don't have to, but Patricia Moore: Oh, yes, I want to. Donald Wilcenski: Please, no comments from the audience. Give Pat her time and then I'm gonna take a second and step back with the Board. We are going to decide what we are gonna do with the hearing. Go ahead, Pat. Patricia Moore: OK. Thank you. I think last time we told you that we have listened to the neighbors. Sometimes the complaints and if you go and review the police reports you will read them for yourself. There was no police report that alleged 600 people. I have all the police reports that were issued and none of those-there is no such report. The purpose of us to come through a site plan process is to try to address the issues, not to rehash the issues. As far as having sex acts, we have security. We can provide a practical way to address that. You can't control everyone. Certainly, when we investigate that individual happened to be a neighborhood individual. So it wasn't even anyone that came in by limo or other form. This was somebody who was from the neighborhood. So, we've been operating under complaints and we've been operating under hearsay. My job is to try to keep the process going following the law. And that's what we have been trying to do. I know you are tempted to react to the pleas. We are attempting to follow the law. Briefly, with respect to tents--because Mr. Shipman became the Code Enforcement Officer, he reports everything to the Town. One issue which I..... (Bill Shipman calling out from the audience) Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Nine July 1, 2013 Donald Wilcenski: I'm sorry. Mr. Shipman--Mr. Shipman, excuse me, excuse me! Mr. Shipman. Please? I asked before she even got up if you would give her respect of speaking. Please. If you want to speak up after her, you can. Patricia Moore: Thank you. The Town tried to adopt regulations regarding tents. What they failed to do--and they did it by "guidance memos'-is to follow the law. The law itself speaks in terms of State Building Codes. The Town cannot supersede the State Building Codes. The State Building Code specifically allows tents up to 700 sq. ft. "Tents" is the wrong term: they are called "canopies." Canopies are tents that have no sides. We tried it the Town's way, which is to make application for tent permits even though the law did not require it. Ultimately, what we found was that the Town-and I have a copy of the application for a tent permit-in trying to respond to neighbors, actually called the tent companies--called our suppliers--and prohibited them from serving my client. There's a document here and I'm going to put it on the record- which has notations with the phone number of the tent company and a phone call going to the company directing them not to put up the tent. Even though under the State Building Code acanopy--which is a tent without sides--can be 700 sq. ft., multiple tents- -as long as they are not over 700 sq. ft. and they are 12' apart--are permitted to go up without permits. So, what we have encountered is the Town pursuing this in Justice Court. I have a motion that is going to be filed returnable on the date of the arraignment, which sets forth the law on this. We have operated under the law. We have tried to address the complaints, we are being proactive in trying to address the complaints, we are all trying to be sympathetic. But they are raising issues from 2011 and 2012. The fact is that my client is actively trying to address it all. We are an agricultural operation and the same kind of stuff that occurred for Satur Farms which was the beating up at the Satur Farm is no different. We are a farming operation. Yes, we have to follow rules and my client is making every effort to follow all the rules. But we can't just dispense with the rules because of neighborhood opposition. And that's precisely what you're getting tonight-June 3 you got the same thing: which was neighborhood opposition to try to persuade you not to follow the Code and not to follow the law, but to react to emotion. We are all sympathetic, we are trying to maintain a good relationship, but sometimes it just isn't possible. We will do our best and we are prepared to provide a communication source-prepared to give neighbors the phone number for our security so that if they do see something they don't have to call the police. Believe me, the last think I as a taxpayer want to see is police reports when they are being called and responding but they are finding nothing. They respond because it is their obligation as police officers. We want to try to work with them but I don't want to rehash and have the neighborhood rehash all the comments from before because many of them were really slanderous and we just listened. We try to address the complaints in a practical and methodical way. That's all I can offer. Keep it on the record: this application which shows the phone numbers to our provider which is another attempt to again-in a sense, the Town becomes a bully. You become a bully Southold Town Planning Board Page Forty July 1, 2013 when you start using every method feasible to try to stop a legitimate business. Let me tell you that the complaints about the Liquor Authority hearing-when you go through the transcripts of that hearing and the attorney reports back on that hearing, they had the same opportunity to go into the Liquor Authority and make the complaints. But fortunately the Liquor Authority also has to follow the law. We are hoping that we will get a response soon, but they are giving the neighbors every opportunity to come in and complain, even though many of the complaints are issues that the Liquor Authority really has very little to do with. This is the motion which I am going to submit for the record. Donald Wilcenski: OK. Thank you. Frank Isler: Mr. Chairman, can I just make one statement? Donald Wilcenski: Sure. Frank Isler: Pat, I am sure you know that our silence on positions of law that you have taken and descriptions you have made of positions in the litigation should not be taken as any form of a concession or admission to your statements. Your position about tents-this is not the forum to litigate that. You can litigate that wherever you'd like to litigate it. Patricia Moore: Mr. Isler... Frank Isler: The only other point I would like to make--please don't interrupt me at the moment--is the community sentiment and the testimony that has been presented here by the community is not your community influence like they are trying to picture it. Part of the responsibility of this Planning Board in evaluating an expansion of a site plan is to consider all of the impacts that site plan as expanded and extended will have on the existing community. The testimony that the public is giving us and the neighbors are giving us is not community opposition-it's fact finding so that this Planning Board can weigh the different criteria under 280-128 deciding what is the appropriate way to handle this site plan. It doesn't mean that just because the public has presented testimony the Planning Board is going to do X or Y, but it is evidenced in our record that we must consider it is not community opposition. That has to be stated for the record. Patricia Moore: Mr. Isler, I would say that it speaks for itself whether it's community opposition or legitimate complaint. And we will ultimately let the transcripts and the courts decide that. As far as the law on the tents...... Frank Isler: Ultimately the Planning Board is going to first decide. Southold Town Planning Board Page Fortv-One Julv 1, 2013 Patricia Moore: Well, it first decides that. But with respect to the law, the fact that you disagree with it doesn't necessarily mean it's not accurate. There's no acknowledgement of (inaudible). You're there to listen and I'm here to put a record on. Frank Isler: I just don't want you to have a misconception.... Donald Wilcenski: And I'm here to keep this moving. Patricia Moore: All right. But I wanted to state for the record what the law is on tents. Because the public--Mr. Shipman--misrepresents the law, and he is putting on the record his opinion of tent permits equals violation of the site plan. And that is incorrect. Secondly, I would clarify that expansion of the use issue. What I have shown you is that since 1994 there was an area for the outdoor seating. What we are talking about is the outdoor seating. What we are offering is a permanent structure because throughout the site plan process I was told "we don't site plan for tents" and then we punish you because you want tents and we call it an extension if you have tents. So, to solve that problem, I convinced my client to spend money that he doesn't necessarily have to spend because his tents will do just fine. But because we are trying to address the representation to the Supreme Court that occupancy somehow or another has to be controlled, rather than leave the issue still nebulous as to tents, I convinced my client to put a permanent structure which is only with electricity that tries to address the issue of noise and tries to address the issues of the complaints by the neighbors. Believe me, we could live very comfortably with tents. But my client is prepared to spend that extra money for Health Department approval and Site Plan approval. Donald Wilcenski: Pat, can we please move forward-you just got done telling the local residents that they're rehashing. You're rehashing the same.... Patricia Moore: I understand, but I have to clarify what Mr. Isler just tried to create as a record, so I want to correct that. Thank you. Let me just make sure everything is covered here. To respond to some of the comments with respect to a limousine parked on Horseshoe Drive and waxing of a limo or whatever. Again, we are very near other wineries. There are actually among the complaints, complaints about limos from all the different wineries. Once the limos leave the premises, it's not necessarily one of our limos. It could be a limo that has stopped at Vineyard 48; it could be a limo that has been at any one of the wineries. It could also be a limo that is from a wedding or whatever. Limos are now very prevalent and parking on Horseshoe Drive is not illegal. Waxing your car on Horseshoe Drive is not illegal. We are trying to address our vehicles and providing a designated site. That's why we were offering the Commerce Drive as a place so that nobody is tempted rather than park on our site or park anywhere else-to give them an alternative..... Southold Town Planning Board Page Forty-Two July 1, 2013 Donald Wilcenski: Pat, again I am going to stop you there because you complained about the neighbors rehashing and you're rehashing. Patricia Moore: All right, I'm not gonna rehash. OK. With respect also to the complaints about the noise; the noise ordinance went into the books. From that point forward, there have been no violations associated with the noise ordinance which is based on decibel readings. I want to put that on the record but, nonetheless, we are addressing it with that permanent two-sided building. I think I have touched on everything. I think your questions for the most part would have addressed many of the points that I was going to make. We thank you for your patience. We do appreciate it; we do appreciate the neighbors. We continue to leave open any efforts, any possibilities of communication. But it has to be a two-way. Thank you. Donald Wilcenski: OK. Thank you. With that, I am going to take a minute. We just would like to thank you all. We hear you. We feel that we have got enough information in the public forum that we are going to close the public hearing, but we are going to leave the record open for written submittals to our Planning Department until July 15. Again, this is a process; it's not going to happen overnight. This is just the beginning. The hearings are the beginning. Then the referrals are going to go out. So, decisions aren't going to be made overnight. With all due respect to the applicant, we have to do our due diligence. This process takes time and in fairness to them, we have to keep it moving. With that said, we hear you. If you have anybody who needs to write or have any more comments, please send them to the Planning Department in writing by fax or email. OK, with that said, I need a motion to close the public hearing and leave the submission period open until July 15, 2013 for written submittals. Jim Rich: So moved. Bill Cremers: Second. Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Don Wilcenski: Motion carries. Thank you very much, everyone. APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES Don Wilcenski: I need a motion for the approval of the Planning Board minutes from June 3, 2013. Southold Town Planning Board Paae Fortv-Three July 1, 2013 Bill Cremers: So moved. Martin Sidor: Second. Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Don Wilcenski: Motion carries. And a motion for an adjournment? Jim Rich: Motion for adjournment. Martin Sidor: Second. Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. All in favor? Ayes. Don Wilcenski: Motion carries. Thank you. There being no further business to come before the meeting, it was ADJOURNED at 7:53 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Linda Randolph, nscribing Secretary Donald J. ilcens<, hair RECEIVED 9;.~~ ~ AUG 6 2013 5 thol