HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/03/2013 MAILING ADDRESS:
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS P.O. Box 1179
DONALD J. WILCENSKI ..\~~f S~UljyO Southold, NY 11971
Chair l0yy OFFICE LOCATION:
WILLIAM J. CREMERS ~ T Town Hall Annex
PIERCE RAFFERTY N ~c 54375 State Route 25
JAMES H. RICH III ~ ~ ~O (cor. Main Rd. & Youngs Ave.)
MARTIN H. SIDOR ~~'f.~,DUNTY,~~ Southold, NY
111' Telephone: 631 765-1938
Fax: 631 765-3136
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
PUBLIC MEETING MINUTES
Monday, June 3, 2013 RECEIVED
6:00 p.m. 9,`,3o gex
UL
Present were: Donald J. Wilcenski, Chairperson
William J. Cremers, Member ~^u hold Town Ci~rk
Pierce Rafferty, Member
James H. Rich III, Member
Martin H. Sidor, Member
Heather Lanza, Planning Director
Brian Cummings, Planner
Alyxandra Sabatino, Planner
Carol Kalin, Secretary
SETTING OF THE NEXT PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Don Wilcenski: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the regularly-
scheduled Southold Town Planning Board's June 3, 2013 Public Meeting. Our first
order of business is to set Monday, July 1, 2013 at 6:00 p.m. at the Southold Town
Hall, Main Road, Southold, as the time and place for the next Planning Board Meeting.
William Cremers: So moved.
Martin Sidor: Second.
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Two June 3, 2013
PUBLIC HEARINGS
6:00 p.m. - Harbes Greenhouse & Farm Shed -This site plan is for the proposed
construction of a 30'x96' (2,880 s.f.) greenhouse, a 12'x16' farm shed and a 10'x16'
poultry pen on 13.5 acres in the A-C Zoning District. The property is located at 555
Sound Avenue, ±830' w/o Aldrich Lane, Mattituck. SCTM#1000-120-1-3
Donald Wilcenski: I would like to ask if there is anyone from the audience who would
like to address the Planning Board at this time, please step to one of the podiums, state
your name and write your name for the record. Hearing and seeing none..
William Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to close the hearing.
Martin Sidor: Second.
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries.
6:02 g.m. - Vinevard 48 -This amended site plan is for the proposed construction of a
40' x 100' pole barn pavilion with two walls, a re-design of the existing parking areas,
and the addition of an overtlow parking area with 100 parking spaces. Existing on site
area 2,032 s.f. tasting room, a 320 s.f. accessory retail store, 1,480 s.f. office, and
3,000 s.f. storage building and 11.3 acres of grape vines on 14.9 acres in the A-C
Zoning District. The property is located at 18910 CR 48, 1340' w/o CR 48 and Depot
Lane, Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-96-4-4.3
Donald Wilcenski: At this time, the applicant's attorney would like to speak first. I know
there are a number of people here; everyone will have their chance to be heard. Pat,
we would like to give you a chance to answer the questions that are brought up tonight
at the end of all the questioning from the public.
Patricia Moore: Good evening, Board. You'll have to excuse my posture; I pulled my
back out, so I'm looking like a pretzel. I have with me this evening for this public
hearing, Matt Metz, who is the principal of Vineyard 48; he is president of the
corporation known as Joseph Paul Winery. Also with me is William Moore, who is
going to assist me so that when the questions are asked and if I am incapable of
withstanding too much of the ammunition, he is my backup.
Southold Town Planning Board Pape Three June 3, 2013
Patricia Moore: I am going to go through and review something that the Board is
certainly familiar with because it was part of the file that I think in fairness so that the
neighbors understand everything that we have been going through. I am going to go
through the use and the history of this property just to get us started all on the same
page.
Vineyard 48 is obviously located on CR 48 in Cutchogue and it is considered a farm
winery. The farm winery produces wine primarily from their own vines. Development
rights have not been sold from this property. So the property is intact.
As you pointed out, the property contains 34 acres; 14.95 acres on CR 48 and 18.5
acres on Depot Lane. All the land except for the 3 acres with the winery structures and
the parking is devoted to the vineyard. The property contains the original winery
building retail area, the tasting room, office for winemaker, processing buildings and
wine tasting pavilion. The winery uses 3 seasonal tents for outdoor seating and
serving: a 20'X20' tent, a 20'X40' tent and a 40'X100' tent depending on the need.
The history of this property: it has been in wine production since Robert Bidwell
purchased the property in 1982. A survey from May 1986 shows parking and existing
buildings-including the concrete block building which was used as the winery for
Bidwell Vineyards. In 1990 the Zoning Board granted a special exception (which was
the requirement at the time) for the original structure which included the retail sales
area. The 400 sq. ft. retail sale area is the original building which remains on the
property as the retail area for the winery. In 1994 the Zoning Board granted another
special exception for the new tasting room pavilion-that is the existing building. In
addition, in July 1995 the Planning Board approved the site plan for the winery use for
existing and proposed buildings. The site plan provided for parking and drainage for
the existing buildings as well as the proposed wine tasting pavilion. The parking along
the front has not changed on our proposed site plan. After the tasting room pavilion
was constructed and a certificate of occupancy was requested from the Building
Department, the Planning Board reviewed the as-built site plan. The site plan was last
revised in May 2006 with some minor revisions to the landscaping and the parking. On
June 27, 2006, the Planning Board found the improvements to be in compliance with
the approved site plan.
We have what is considered primarily a seasonal use from April until October
depending upon the weather. Agro-tourism is an important economic stimulus to the
local economy. CR 48 is the New York State Wine Trail. Vineyard 48, as well as other
wineries and large farm stands provide outdoor seating under tents and canopies. The
canopies and tents conform to the State Building Code. I am going to give you a memo
regarding the NYS Building Code, which I will incorporate into the file. The Town
began issuing criminal violations and simultaneously pursued Supreme Court
enforcement actions against Vineyard 48, claiming that the winery was exceeding the
Southold Town Planning Board Page Four June 3, 2013
occupancy of the tasting room pavilion structure with their outdoor seating. Despite
ample overflow parking on 32 acres, the Town sought an injunction to stop the use of
the tasting room pavilion with outdoor seating. The Town alleged to the Court that if the
site plan only showed 33 parking spaces, then Vineyard 48 could not exceed the
number of cars. The Town insisted to the Court that an amended site plan had to be
submitted in order to approve the occupancy of the property, which included seasonal
use of canopies and tents. Vineyard 48, in an effort to resolve the Court proceedings,
agreed to prepare an amended plan. However, when the site plan was submitted
showing the seasonal canopies and tents, we were advised that the Planning Board
does not site plan tents. My client was directed to remove the seasonal tents from the
proposed amended site plan. The plans were revised and the pending amended site
plan application shows a tent area and future pole barn. The pole barn will be built for
next season to replace the use of the larger tent. This season, Vineyard 48 needs the
seasonal tents to operate the winery, particularly during inclement weather and the
summer heat.
In April, Vineyard 48 applied for the seasonal tent permits. The Building Department
referred this application to the Planning Board and received a response on April 19,
2013 which contradicts the Planning Board's directive to remove tents from the site
plan. We have provided a site plan which shows the overflow parking for 100 cars.
The Planning Board has requested the Building Department deny tent permit
applications and we ask that the Planning Board refrain from interfering in the issuance
of tent permits. In the Town of Southold, agricultural properties such as wineries, farm
stands and open Feld tourist attractions place seasonal tents on their property to
accommodate the seasonal tourism. The Town may not adopt regulations which
deviate from New York State Building Code. The Town Board, on May 7, 2013,
adopted a resolution establishing and imposing guidelines on the Building Department.
The guidelines are procedurally and substantively illegal. Moreover, the Town's
interference with farms in the agricultural district is a violation of Ags & Markets Law.
We raise that on the record we understand there will be a lot of comments, and we just
want to make sure that all of that is made part of the record.
In an effort to resolve the disputes with the Town, Vineyard 48 proposed on the site
plan a 40'X100' pole barn. This pole barn is to be used for seasonal seating. Portable
picnic tables are placed under the unheated seasonal seating pavilion for the winery,
which will replace the 40'X100' tent located in the tent area. The structure has no
water-only electricity. The pole barn has been designed with walls on the west and
the north; the walls are proposed to provide greater noise abatement than the open
tent.
Throughout this process we have insisted that the Town should not be site planning the
manner of operation of any use. Wineries are an agricultural use which is dependent
Southold Town Planning Board Page Five June 3, 2013
on tourism. In the amended site plan application, we made the Town aware of the
efforts that have been made to address all complaints-even the most unreasonable
and unjustified complaints. With respect to complaints (and we anticipate we will be
hearing comments tonight), so you know what efforts are being made: the winery
operates primarily during daylight hours. The minimum noise heard at the property line
competes with the traffic noise of the busiest summer months on a dual highway, CR
48. Vineyard 48 intends to invest in that 40'X100' pole barn to replace the seasonal
tent which is used as seasonal seating for the winery. The barn is designed with a
north and west wall. The opening of the barn will be toward the field and courtyard.
The closest neighbor on the north is approximately 250' from the courtyard and tent
area. CR 48, the dual highway and grass median separates Vineyard 48 from the
neighbors to the tent which controls most of the noise. However, a wood structure and
side walls will be constructed for the 2014 season to further assure the Town that every
effort is being made to address the neighbor's complaint. Until then, the canopy of
tents is needed. We certainly are willing to add a north and west wall to any tent that is
placed on the property in order to provide further noise abatement.
With respect to noise, Vineyard 48 owns and operates a decibel meter. The decibel
meter is continuously monitored by Vineyard 48 during the hours of operation to assure
conformance with the Town Code. Measurements are taken at Vineyard 48 property
lines. To date, there have been no measurements which have violated decibel limits
set forth in the Town Code.
With respect to traffic, queing is shown on the site plan. Buses and limousines are in
contact with Vineyard 48 prior to their arrival. After delivering the passengers, the
drivers maintain contact with the staff to coordinate pickup. Overflow bus and limousine
parking which cannot be accommodated on site is directed to park at an industrial park
off the site. Limousine parking is provided mainly on site along designated spaces.
Guests and management must be able to readily contact the drivers for questions and
departure. A letter is provided to the limousine companies to advise them of the
manner of operation and Vineyard 48 rules. Once vehicles are on CR 48, they are
required to follow NYS vehicle and traffic law. U-turns on CR 48 are permitted.
Overflow passenger vehicle parking is shown in an open area to the south. The vehicle
traffic to the parking field is directed and supervised by qualified personnel. The flow of
traffic is easily controlled by one-way direction into the parking stalls. The interior
driveway (to the extent possible) is using existing farm roads. The farm roads maintain
the agricultural character and do not interfere with the vineyard operation. Finally, with
respect to the traffic, Suburban Security has provided professional security and traffic
control services in the past.
With respect to guest behavior, Vineyard 48 and the security services reserve the right
to refuse to serve intoxicated persons or entry of vehicles with intoxicated passengers.
Security patrols the area and monitors pedestrians touring the vineyard. In order to
Southold Town Planning Board Page Six June 3, 2013
prevent unlawful trespassing beyond the bounds of the vineyard, private property signs
are posted south of the Long Island Railroad tracks identifying the limits of the property.
With 34 acres of farmland, trespassing can occur by foot from the south, from the more
populated areas. If Vineyard 48 staff witness inappropriate behavior, they are directed
to address it immediately or call the police. Vineyard 48 has been prosecuted based on
You Tube and other Internet sites which are hearsay allegations. Vineyard 48
management cannot address behavior unless witnessed by staff. It is difficult to site
plan for alleged isolated actions of adults. Any tourist attraction-even wineries-has to
address common course of conduct. Vineyard 48 has been aggressive in addressing
alleged isolated behavior problems. The owners have hired new management. The
winery is open every day. However, the site plan is addressing at most the most
populated weekends two months of the year. In the summer and in the fall, the winery
is closed by sunset on Saturday and 6 p.m. on Sunday. The staff and independent
contractors are on the premises and paid whether it rains or the sun shines.
With respect to music, most wineries and some farm stands provide music
entertainment for their guests. The Town was accusing Vineyard 48 of dance parties.
Last year, management addressed this allegation. They hired local DJ's who are
familiar with the Town ordinances. Local DJ's provide music on the weekends and
represent to the owner that the noise ordinance would be followed and that they do not
use vulgar language. DJ's are better able to select music which varies and the volume
can be controlled. To control dancing which was alleged to be excessive, it was moved
to the courtyard area and picnic tables were placed under the larger tents. There would
be no room to dance under the tents. No other agricultural vineyard in our opinion is
harassed as often and as continuously as Vineyard 48, despite the manner of operation
of all the vineyards-which is for the most part the same.
Vineyard 48 hires local independent contractors, local employees and actively
addresses any actual or perceived problem on a continuous basis. In February, in an
effort to show good faith and resolve the Court proceedings, they filed this amended
site plan with the seasonal parking and to construct a permanent building with walls.
The walls are proposed in order to control what the neighbors have alleged to be
unreasonable noise. As I said before, my client is willing to add a north and west side
to the larger tent in this year.
Vineyard 48 has exceeded the expectations made of most wineries. The manner in
which the Town has enforced the laws and interfered with the winery exceeds the
bounds of reasonableness. This amended site plan addresses these complaints. We
are here to listen to the neighbors and we appreciate that opportunity. Thank you.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you, Pat. I know there are a number of you here that want to
speak, so I'd like to do this in an orderly fashion. Let's start on this side of the room. If
anybody would like to speak, please step to the podium, state and write your name for
Southold Town Planning Board Page Seven June 3, 2013
the record. We will work our way across the room and be here as long as we have to,
within reason. This is a public forum and you are here to address the Board. We are
taking all the information tonight and it will be put to the file. Please do not speak out to
someone or try to answer someone's question. I will ask the applicant's attorney, Pat,
at the end of the public input or questions to respond and answer as many questions as
you can or choose to.
Joseph Zuhoski, Sr., 5455 Depot Lane Cutchogue: As Pat mentioned, Bidwell was the
original owner. While he owned that property, there was not any noise being produced;
it was used strictly as a tasting room-no dancing, no screaming, no hollering. The
pole barn-how tall is that going to be? What is the height of it?
Donald Wilcenski: Excuse me, we will answer the questions-Brian, do you have that?
We want to keep this orderly: I just want to reiterate to everyone. You can ask the
questions, then Pat is going to come up at the end and she will answer as many as she
can. If we have the answers right away, we will answer them. I'm sorry, Mr. Zuhoski.
Brian has the plan: it is 18' high.
Joseph Zuhoski, Sr.: Thank you. Pat mentioned that the north and west side would be
blocked off, but that means the east and south are going to be open. I happen to live to
the east of that building. I'll be getting the brunt of all the noise that will be coming out
of that barn. As it is now, I have to close the windows of my home on a Saturday
afternoon and Sunday afternoon because the noise is so horrendous you can't stand it.
The drum is beating; people are screaming and hollering-it's outrageous. Last
Saturday evening a man got up on top of an SUV and was dancing around waving his
hands screaming. These people are out of order. They get drunk, they are all over our
neighborhood. This has got to stop. As you may know there is a place out in Hampton
Bays they call "Bawdy Barn." That's a night club. Well, to me, what's going on here in
Cutchogue on Depot Lane 48 Vineyard is a "Day Club." Thank you.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anybody else from this side of the room? Again, I will
remind you to state and write your name for the record.
Joe Zuhoski, Jr.: I live just west of CR 48 Vineyard, right behind the young lady, that
last house on the bottom right hand corner. My dad is right across the way from me.
We built there in '87. Like my dad said, Bidwell was there. I'd be out in my garden, all
of a sudden Frank Sinatra would start playing. So I'm singing "My Way." But now
these guys, I'm telling you wow, it's a whole different animal. You've probably heard
stories about the guy that caught the people in their backyard doing the deed. I'm the
guy-I've got the pictures. I've had intrusion from the people over there-they're rude.
We ask them "Buddy, what are you doing here?" We are told to you-know-what with
ourselves. We're at wits end with these people. There is no control over the patrons.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Eight June 3, 2013
I've found wine bottles in my backyard right behind my shed. Like I said, the couple
was doing their thing-I had to call the cops. I had buses down my driveway pulling
over my grass and my yard. Private cars from their parking lot coming down my private
road which is closed and using that. How much more are we going to take? I was told
to block the road off. Why should I have to block my road off? I gotta move barricades
if I want to leave? Decibel meters-there are times I've had dishes in my cupboards
rattling. That bang of the bass is just too much. Something is going to have to be
done. I hope the Town does the right thing for us because this is going on too long.
Thank you.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. To keep things moving, you can use the podium on the
right as well.
Denise Lademann, 85 Old Saddle Lane: I live probably''/2 mile away into Oregon View
Estates. They spoke about seasonal use, but when I complained it was a Saturday
afternoon on October 22. I came home from work and my house was rocking. The
walls were rocking. I yelled at my son to turn down his radio. He said: "It's not me,
Mom." Then my husband said: It's from the vineyard. And it's been doing it all day
long." There is a number of times we've gotten nearly hit by limos trying to make U-
turns on CR 48. I have a little Subaru. It's hard to make a U-turn on 48 in my Subaru.
I can't imagine in a limo or a huge bus. And it stops all traffic when it happens.
Everybody going either way has to stop. There is going to be a terrible accident on this
road. It's going to happen. It's just a matter of time, and the Town needs to do
something about it before it happens. Because I would hate to see a loss of life over
this. It's ridiculous.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anybody else from the left side?
Marla Koster, 975 Horseshoe Drive, Oregon View Estates: When we were here a year
ago or whatever for the Town meeting, it was said that what's carried on here is outside
of the Halo District for this kind of thing?
Donald Wilcenski: I am not sure what meeting you are speaking of, but it might have
been with the ZBA. We have not had a public hearing for Planning.
Marla Koster: But is it outside the Halo area?
Donald Wilcenski: Yes it is, it's actually in the AC Zone.
Marla Koster: All right, so it's not supposed to be doing this in that area, right?
Donald Wilcenski: It's based Agriculture. So under the Agricultural umbrella, the Ags &
Markets allow for Agritainment.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Nine June 3, 2013
Marla Koster: But what they're doing is a "Bawdy Barn" like Mr. Zuhoski said. It's really
not-shouldn't be there. I'm sorry.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anybody else from this side?
Vivian Hinton. 515 Horseshoe Drive: As many people here are volunteer firemen, my
son is a volunteer fireman. He went to the Vineyard either because somebody was
drunk or got sick and they called the ambulance to go there. He went to the emergency
call and came back. On the way back home, he gets into a car accident and totals his
truck. This is because there were buses and limos parked on CR 48 and you couldn't
see. He's coming down Depot (Lane) at the blinking light to make a U-turn to go make
a left hand turn when this car comes out from behind two buses and hits him. Luckily
nobody got hurt. In that car there were two young kids and my son's truck was totally
totaled. That has to stop. The limos can't make U-turns; they shouldn't be parking on
48. They've parked in our driveway. Enough is enough. Something has to be done.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anybody else from the left side of the room, or the right
side of the room? Front and center: you can step to that podium there.
Laurie Helinski, 18450 Middle Road: I am the closest person to Vineyard 48. My house
is for sale. It's that bad. The last couple of years. Everybody tells their kids to go
outside and play. My kids get told to stay inside. It's dangerous in my yard. They hired
bodyguards last year. It's about time. They stand at the corner of my property. Instead
of me having to fight with the drunks all afternoon, I get to listen to this guy fight with the
drunks all afternoon to tell them to go back to the vineyard; they don't belong there. I
can't tell you the action I see in it; I can't tell you how many times I saw people having
sex in my yard. My daughter's graduation party video shows people having sex two
rows in. I said: "Excuse me, we are having a graduation party here." He doesn't even
stop. Nice, real nice. I could go on and on and on. The litter: it's disgusting. Can't
send the kids out to mow the lawn-I gotta go check because they not only urinate in
my yard constantly-they poop. I grow my own food. They're urinating on my food.
They're supposed to shut down at 6:00; now I'm back on duty. Whoever is left over-
and those girls, they can't wait to take off their clothes-I can't tell you. Here they
come! They need pole barns for the pole dancing. Because that's what I watch from
my back yard. They're running through the vineyard and clothes are flying. It's
disgusting! How that's agriculture I have no idea. I've worked my whole life in farming.
That is not farming. I don't know what they think they're selling-they're selling Sangria
in a pitcher with a straw. That's on their advertising. You don't even have to go to You
Tube-look at their advertising on their own website. It's shut down by now. That's
agritainment? News 12 Southold Tourism is gonna be: "What happens in Southold
stays in Southold." There is no rules. You get on a bus, you come out here and you
can do whatever you want. "'Cause it's fun; we're just having fun-we're just dancing."
Southold Town Planning Board Page Ten June 3, 2013
Girls gone wild in the vineyards. That's what you got. Now they're gonna put up a big,
big barn. Nobody's doing any kind of occupancy check. Just this past Saturday I had a
bus stop in front of my yard letting everybody out. I don't know who they contacted at
the Vineyard. There's no communication because they're letting people out in my yard.
They're finally trying to get them off the highway a little bit. All of our small roads-our
infrastructure-is not meant to handle these huge limos and buses going up and down
Depot Lane, Alvah's Lane. They're parked on the side. There are no shoulders. You're
worried about people who are coming out with their bikes because there's not enough
room and you're going to let this action go on? I don't know who is counting heads
going into these places, but guess what-you just count how many buses and limos
come in and out of here and you tell me they're not over occupancy how many times a
year? It's a joke. My house is for sale, my family's life has been ruined, my last son
can't graduate with his friends he has been going to school with since kindergarten.
I can't give my house away. Southold better wake up and smell the roses. We're
paying for your open space. I'd rather be living in a neighborhood. I signed up to live in
AC because I didn't want to bother people with my rototiller first thing in the morning.
(inaudible) What do I get? Bawdy Barn. The parking lot out in the back is already
there. I don't know why he's going for a site plan now-it's been there since last fall-
it's already there. I don't know who (inaudible) pesticide license but guess what-they
use a barrel sprayer--they're out there weekly-you gotta spray-I get that. It's not
even the one that's enclosed. They're spraying cars where employees all park in there;
now you're gonna have people walking and parking through there. No public safety
issue-what's up with that? The last time I worked the workers weren't allowed in the
field for 44 hours. That's OK--parking in the way back and let everybody walk through
there? Everybody we see rolling around in the grass give them the heads up: "by the
way, don't go to the bathroom in my yard. You know you might want to go take a
shower; they just sprayed this morning or yesterday morning." "Oh my God, really?
Nobody told me." It's just flouting all the rules and all the laws and we are left hung out
to dry. You guys are gonna get what you ask for. You got your open space, you got
your vineyards. Good Luck. We are oversaturated with vineyards and you're gonna
have a lot more people coming down the pike who'll do the same thing because you're
letting them do it.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you for your comments and they will be taken into
consideration. Believe me, we are all well aware of the situation.
Jill Ann Johnson, 225 Horseshoe Drive: I wasn't so angry until I walked in this room
and heard how everybody is following the rules and so why should the neighbors
complain. I think if you were dealing with a responsible business, they wouldn't be
taken out of the Wine Council, they wouldn't have the Farm Bureau turning their back
on them. If they were doing all the right things, they would have support from their own
industry. But they don't. It's all of the things that you've heard here. In the beginning,
Southold Town Planning Board Page Eleven June 3, 2013
as neighbors, we went there and tried to hash it out and talk to them and see if we
could work things out. But when there were no rules, nobody cared about what
anybody had to say. Now they're here-"Oh, we want to put up a wall; we want to block
off the north and west." I don't care what kind of walls you put up; the people who
walked into my neighborhood twice and peed in front of my kids last year-are those
walls in the pole barn gonna block them in? Are those walls in the pole barn gonna
stop the ladies from running out onto Sound Avenue because they think it's a back road
because they're from the city? Are those walls from the pole barn gonna stop people
from fighting? Is it going to stop the traffic from lining up Sound Avenue? Because
when my husband and 1 moved here it was only six years ago, and this wasn't what we
were dealing with. We came to this neighborhood from Riverhead. We might be better
off in Riverhead if this is how it's gonna be. At least I knew what I was getting myself
into there. When there's public drunkenness you got it because you were in Riverhead.
But now I'm in Cutchogue, and I moved here and I spent a lot of money. And I spend
every dime I have on my mortgage and I am pissed. I invite anybody to come and live
in my neighborhood for a weekend in the summer because that's not right. I'm
disappointed because right now my kids are in the lobby and I should be home making
dinner. This is the second time this year I've been here for this type of meeting. And
nothing has happened. So who is going to look out for us? That's all I really have to
say.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you very much.
Bill Shipman, 75 Horseshoe Drive: Good evening. I am directly across from the
driveway entrance there: approximately 130'. Ms. Moore said that they had the
litigation in process here. May 24, 2012 was the first preliminary injunction to the
Suffolk County Supreme Civil Court. Then on October 23, 2012 another injunction for
the parking areas. These things were put in place because the Town Board thinks the
business plan doesn't fit the zoning. They're having more of a night club atmosphere
rather than a wine tasting. Also, presently since March 7, 2013 the NYS Liquor
Authority is presently engaged in hearings and litigation with this company. They do not
have a current liquor license; they are operating under the liquor license that has
expired last year due to whatever the State has set up where they are allowed to
continue to operate until the hearings are done. So I don't know how you are going to
approve the site amendment or a construction project to somebody who doesn't
currently have an up-to-date liquor license and are operating on last year's. The State
Liquor Authority also feels this vineyard has misrepresented their business plan and the
use of their wine tasting license. They are serving more than tastings; they are serving
Long Island beer; they are serving sangria. A lot of this stuff wouldn't be issues if they
didn't torment the neighbors with the noise that they produce and the functions that they
had when there was no noise ordinance. When I asked the responding officer that
would come to take the noise complaint: "Could you ask the manager to come over so
that he can tell me if this is acceptable; you're here, I'm here, I promise I'll behave
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twelve June 3, 2013
myself." "He's too busy." Well, now they say they've changed their managers. In one
of the write-ups that they vineyard has, the owner is always present. They might be
serving your wine to you. So they know what's going on. Back to the State Liquor
Authority. The State Liquor Authority also says that the cigar shop on site violates their
rules and conditions of license because within ten business days they are supposed to
notify the Liquor Authority of any change in their business plan. They failed to do that.
So them having that retail store there violates their liquor license.
In the liquor license, they are supposed to have a 6 p.m. closing. There's plenty of
reports that show from the Police Department 6:30, 7:00, 11:00 at night. So, what I'm
trying to portray to the Board here is that's a definite conflict of interest if I ever saw
one. Three separate litigations. By amending the site plan, you increase their ability to
have these functions. You're telling them: "OK, we're not going to issue your tent
permits this year because the last two years you've been off the wall, so we're not
gonna give you the tent permits. But now we're going to approve a 40'X100' permanent
building"--and that is going to be what they're gonna have their functions in? Conflict of
interest to me. I'm not an attorney but I see that conflict of interest.
Donald Wilcenski: I'm sorry to interrupt you. Just to be clear, this is a public hearing
and all the information that we are hearing is going to be put into the record and will be
under consideration. Continue.
Bill Shipman: I've been working on this for two or three years-I've been suffering.
This is what I have and I want everybody to hear. Again, if you approve something like
this that's against the Town Board stance right now unless they've changed their stance
(they haven't gotten back to me or informed me of this), I demand-and I'm sure many
people after me will demand-that this site plan amendment and building permit be
denied or at least tabled until all litigation is solved. Thirty days is unacceptable. If they
have litigation, you can't tell them that they can build something or amend their site until
all that litigation is done. Because obviously the Town Board has concerns and NYS
Liquor Authority has concerns. This vineyard, I believe, is trying to seek approval for
this so that they could sneak it in-this way when they get disciplined by NYS they'll go
to the Appeals Court and they'll say: "Hey-- the Town allowed us to do this; why are we
being punished?" That's how I'm looking at it. Just this last weekend, June 1, Vineyard
48 had approximately 400 people at their site. So now when we go back to Town
Code: Outdoor Events and Vineyards for Profit. At which expected attendance exceeds
the maximum occupancy, which is 125 for Vineyard 48 of the public area. So they
need a special permit. They don't have it. They need it. When they go over 300
people, they have other things that they have to go by. All parking must be off the
street; traffic control must be provided. You could go on and on. Limos and buses are
parking down Thomas Drive off of Duck Pond. They have a guy with the flag in his vest
on Mattituck Sanitation property parking the larger buses and the larger limos. I have
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirteen June 3, 2013
pictures of this-if anyone wants to see them afterwards, I've got them on my phone-
I'll show you. This is what we have been dealing with for the last three years. So now
somebody comes up with a plan to put a permanent structure up to replace a temporary
structure that they are told doesn't fit that particular area.
Back to the NYS Liquor Authority. Obviously they misinterpreted their business to them
because their permit under Liquor License Winery Form shows a tasting. They're
serving bottles; they're serving Sangria; they're serving beer. So, unless people can
come up with definite answers to me, I think it's going to be criminal if this is passed or
if the site plan is amended until anything is resolved with litigation. I am sure there are
other people who want to speak, so I shall be on my way.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you for your comments. Again, all comments will be put into
the record/file and taken into consideration. Anybody else from the center?
Kathleen Scheuerman, 675 Horseshoe Drive: Is this winery going to be rewarded for
breaking the law and you're going to reward them by letting them build a building that
will be a permanent structure? Is that how our Town works now? I don't know. But I
hope that you don't do that. I hope that you are actually listening to all of us. Because
if you don't live in our area, you don't put up with the noise; you don't put up with the
obscene parties and the people that they cannot control. When you go to the other
wineries and you have a tasting, they're in, they're out-they're civilized people. We
are not having that where we live. These are not civilized people; these are people who
are coming out here to party and have a good time and they're being told: "This is a wild
place." When you go into this winery, you don't see anybody over 30. This is a club; it
is not a winery. They are having a wonderful time at our expense and we're the ones
that are paying the taxes. And that's not fair. It's something I don't think they should be
rewarded for. If, as the lawyer said, they were following everything and they were just
being harassed, can you please explain to me why none of the other wineries have
been harassed? They have to be breaking rules in order to have the kind of conflict
they have with their neighbors. And they don't address any of the conflicts that go on.
Now they're addressing it because they want something bigger and better. Are we
going to reward them and let them have something bigger and better? I hope not. I
hope not for our Town's sake and for our local community on Horseshoe Drive and on
48 and on Depot. Because we are the ones who are suffering and we are the ones
who are going to vote and still run this town-they're not.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you.
Jesse Johnson, 225 Horseshoe Drive: Like my wife was saying before, we moved from
Riverhead. I lived on Grilling Avenue right across the street from the train station,
which is not known for being the quietest area. It's quieter than where we are at now.
We were making a U-turn one day, my family and I, right across the street at the
Southold Town Planning Board Page Fourteen June 3. 2013
vineyard there. I look over to my left down the vineyard in the vines there and there
was a woman on her knees and she wasn't praying-let's just put it that way. And
there was a guy taking a leak across the street. Mr. Shipman has kids and my kids
were outside in the driveway playing. So, it's not even that-if I was 15 I'd probably be
happy that that place was across the street because I'd be wanting to sneak in there.
That's the way I'd be looking at it. But I'm not, and neither are the kids in the
neighborhood. So, who are these people that have been carted out here? I don't know
them. They're getting drunk-no doubt about it. Because they're doing wild stuff-all
bad stuff. Not all of them, but all it takes is one. A three-point turn is not a U-turn.
The case is made from the first speaker that to me, the way I heard it, they were forced
into every compliance that took place-forced. My calls at first were: "I can't hear the
Yankee game." I have the windows open in my living room in the summer. Then it was
them just hanging up on me. Every time I called, the crowd in the background sounded
like a party. Whatever has passed and if that goes through that's approval against the
will of the people in the area. I think about how I had to pay that extra 2%. I paid that in
Riverhead, and I paid that here. Property taxes, all sorts of stuff. The weekend is
mine, just like the weekend is theirs. And businesses and residences are supposed to
be neighbors. They're not compliant; they don't give a damn. Money talks. And that's
the way it's being looked at. If it's done, it's gonna be forced against everybody.
Anybody in that surrounding area not talking about it or complaining are just not doing
it. But I know everybody in that neighborhood hears that music. And it's loud rap music
being reverberated all throughout the neighborhood. Like I said, I didn't get into the
details of the legal matters, but there's no compliance. They don't give a damn about
the people in the neighborhood. C'mon. They don't care. I know they don't give a crap
about me across the street. I know because they showed it over the past couple of
years. That's the way it is. It's worth continuing to complain about it. Now that
everybody's here, I'm just here to back them up. Matter of fact, after hearing about all
this, I'll be glad to take more action about it, too. Thanks for listening to me.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anybody else on this side?
Pat Schwarz. 1020 Manor Hill Lane. Cutchogue: I do not live around the winery. I live
on 25, almost next to another winery. I live by Trimble's Nursery. That winery has
parties also. I have never had a problem with anyone coming out of that place drunk. I
have never had a problem with noise, and they have parties there. They are good
neighbors. They are good neighbors. The reason I am here is because I almost got
killed last year. I was going east on 48. A limousine came around making a so-called
U-turn and stopped dead in front of me-I'm doing 50 mph. I had to slam on my brakes
and drive over onto the lawn in order to keep myself from getting killed. And he stops
dead there. From what I understand listening to these people, this is something that
happens all the time. They are constantly making turns there and it is dangerous. I
Southold Town Planning Board Page Fifteen June 3, 2013
don't want to be a statistic, and I almost was. And then you put up another light.
Anyway, that's it.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you.
Beth Shioman, 75 Horseshoe Drive: I am directly across the street from Vineyard 48. I
wrote a letter that I would like to read to the Board. We do have young children in the
room, so I will be ad Jibbing briefly in the middle of this. I will give you the letter; I would
love for you all to look at it, take your time, enjoy the pictures that come along with it:
"We start this letter with the fact that our home has been in our family since it was
constructed in 1983. This is not a case of buying a home next to an airport and then
complaining about the noise or the pollution from the air traffic. In fact, when the home
was built, Bidwell Vineyards had only recently purchased in 1982 the land adjacent to
us for the purpose of growing grapes. There was no tasting room, cigar store or
Saturday dance parties. Under the ownership of the Bidwell Family and subsequently
the Pippa Family, the vineyard operated much the same as all the other surrounding
vineyards. They were good neighbors, and we had on occasion patronized them
ourselves. Since the vineyard has been purchased by the Metz, Lamanna & Bartone
families, their good neighbor status has been in decline. The 2010 season became
quite loud by the end of August. The 2011 season started in April and went straight
through to November. In the early spring, the noise, volume and cursing were kept to
every Saturday. As summer approached, it became every Friday and Saturday. By the
end of summer 2011, Vineyard 48 was hosting dance parties every weekend. The
noise and vulgarity became a constant problem every Saturday and Sunday. We tried
to take our concerns to the managers of Vineyard 48 only to be told they are too busy
to hear our concerns.
We have had to endure outrageous lyrics, cursing (the one that rhymes with truck is
used probably 5-10 times an hour over a megaphone through the DJ, through the
customers, the speaker being handed around to patrons. It got to the point that our
children could not stay outside to play on our own property due to the foul language, the
strolling with open containers past our home by Vineyard 48 patrons. When our 6-year-
old daughter asked what (here I'm going to ad lib) the word that rhymes with truck
means, it's not something that you want to have to explain to your 6-year-old daughter.
Our peace has been destroyed by the profit-seeking concerns of the new owner. Even
in our home we can still hear every lyric of the screaming patrons. In August, on the
North Fork, it is hot. Having to keep your children indoors all weekend long with the
windows shut is more than is reasonable to ask of us.
There are also traffic, safety and health-related issues of concern to us. There are
many weekends that the party buses and limos are double-parked on CR 48 in front of
Southold Town Planning Board Page Sixteen June 3, 2013
the vineyard due to inadequate parking for the size of the events that they are holding
on a weekly basis. These party buses and extended limos are also attempting to make
U-turns on CR 48. I say attempting because they are unable to make the U-turns,
thereby creating a danger to themselves, their passengers and other motorists when
they are forced to make 4-point and 6-point turns in some cases on a dual lane
highway. They have been parked eastbound on CR 48 from Zuhoski's private road all
the way to Depot Lane and, at the same time, on the westbound side of CR 48 from
Depot Lane up to and including the turning lane meant for the safe exit off CR 48 into
Oregon View Estates and from the fire hydrant to Mr. Gancarz' property. It makes the
entry and exit from our development, Zuhoski's private road and Mr. Gancarz' driveway
very hazardous. Mrs. E. Zuhoski has already been in an MVA pulling out of her own
road under the best of conditions. Likewise has Mr. Gancarz also been hit in his vehicle
as well as vehicle vs. pedestrian. This would be a good place to mention that the
patrons of Vineyard 48 walk across all four lanes to get back and forth to their limos and
buses. I have seen people being carried across the road because they are too
inebriated to function to walk across the street themselves.
They've been vomiting in my bushes. They've been defecating in my yard: urinating in
my yard. This all takes place in front of my children. I no longer have the use of my
yard that I pay taxes on. We have tried to be good neighbors to Vineyard 48. They're
not interested in that. We've been left no other recourse but to call Southold Town PD
when things get out of hand. Since 2012 we've had a Noise Ordinance in effect in
Southold Town. When we call, PD responds and the music goes down until PD leaves.
Once they leave it goes right back up. We've asked PD to relay to the managers our
desire to meet and discuss with them these issues. Each and every time, PD comes
back with the message that they don't want to talk to us.
The last weekend of March 2012, Vineyard 48 was back at it weeks earlier than the
previous year. After having our children indoors for the summer and fall of 2011, we
were unwilling to spend spring, summer and fall 2012 like that. Instead of calling, we
went directly down to PD and spoke with Lt. Ginas who sent out a squad car. On May
12, 2012, our youngest child received her first Holy Communion. We were unable to
have a party for her. I have four children. I have one child who never had a party for
herself because I can't invite my 80+ year-old aunts and uncles to my house on a
Saturday, and I am certainly not going to invite my nieces and nephews over to hear
what goes on. I can't fit my entire extended family and my husband's extended family
in my home.
These tastings are out of control. On June 24, 2012, as another neighbor mentioned
that he saw something, so did I. White female 30's, dark long hair, white male 30's,
light colored shirt, brown hair performing an oral act on the side in plain view of my
property at the front of the road of vines on Vineyard 48 property. I called PD. It's not
in this letter, but I called PD and stood out there 45 minutes waiting for PD to show up.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Seventeen June 3, 2013
I don't know anybody that's gonna hold out that long, but they never showed up. If they
did, they didn't show up within the 45 minutes that I was out there. On October 13,
2012, a young man wearing a yellow tee shirt and blue baseball cap came across the
street to urinate in front of my children and my neighbor's children, exposing himself to
a 7-year-old and a 6-year-old. I also called the police then. Absolutely nothing was
done, even though they found the guy based on the description.
This is unacceptable by any normal person's standards. This is a residential
neighborhood with multiple small children and teenagers. Our youth should not be
exposed to this. This is Southold Town; is this what we want for our youth? This is
what you want your children and grandchildren growing up with? God bless you. As a
resident of Southold Town, we expect to be able to enjoy the same peace and use of
our property that is expected by everyone else that lives in our town. It is unreasonable
to have our now 8 & 11-year-old daughters exposed to what is going on. It is also
unreasonable and unfair for them to spend every weekend indoors."
This starts in March. It doesn't end. Last year, the last time that I called in was
November 6 in the afternoon. I thought we were done. I thought we were safe. I let my
kids out in the backyard. I was out there with them and the cursing started and the
nasty disgusting lyrics started. I called Southold Town. Do you know what the operator
said to me? "What are you calling to complain about now?" And guess what? I pulled
my kids in the house in November. The operator said to me: "Don't worry, it will all be
over soon and you'll be able to use your yard." That's fantastic. So my children, who
live in Southold Town can use their yard from the middle of November until March 1.
Absolutely fantastic. Way to go Southold Town.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Anybody else at this time? Chief Flatley would you like
to speak?
Chief Flatley: I'm not here to make a statement. But if you have any questions
(inaudible)
Donald Wilcenski: OK.
Ann Ekster. 570 Horseshoe Drive: I don't want to repeat everything. My daughter
Michelle is in a wheelchair. She loves taking walks. We're always outside. The traffic.
They come up and down our road: the limos, the buses. It's just not fair. Just to make
a quick statement: if anybody has ever seen the movie-now I can't think of it. But the
saying is: "If you build it, they will come." (Field of Dreams) The bigger it is, the more
people it's gonna be, the more traffic. This is dangerous. Thank you.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Eighteen June 3, 2013
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. Would anybody else like to address the Planning Board
on Vineyard 48? At this time I would like to remind everyone to please give Ms. Moore
some respect. There's no "cat-calling" as she responds to as many of the questions as
she can or wants to. Would you like to have a chance to respond?
Patricia Moore: The only question that I heard was the height of the building; the rest
were for the most part comments rather than questions. If the Board has any questions
Frank Isler, Esq.: I do, Mr. Chairman. For those of you who do not know me because
I'm a strange face sitting up here (on the dais), I am Special Counsel to the Town on
matters of litigation including the Vineyard 48 case. I have been asked to listen and
participate in the hearing. I just have a few questions if I may, Ms. Moore. Would you
tell us what your client envisions to be an estimate of the population of participants or
patrons at the property in your busiest weekend in 2013? How many people do you
expect?
Patricia Moore: Are you asking throughout the course of the day or hourly? Because
people come and go throughout the day.
Frank Isler, Esq.: At the busiest point of your day, how many people are on your site,
do you envision or anticipate having in 2013 on the busiest day of the year at the
busiest time of the day? You can give me a range.
Patricia Moore: I think our goal is to accommodate...that's what the pole barn is all
about... is to be able to accommodate around.... I don't know; you're asking me a
specific question that I don't know that I have the answer to. Let me ask the client.
I think I had given to the Planning Board previously the occupancy of the structures as
well as the pole barn, so whatever that number was, I can provide it to you in writing. I
don't want to get people upset with misstating the....
Donald Wilcenski: Counsel, that number is 251 people.
Patricia Moore: No, that's incorrect. Adding the pole barn. Additional from what is
currently there, so it's about 450-500 people in total. 518.
Donald Wilcenski: Just so everyone is clear, the pole barn is proposed. The proposed
occupancy of the pole barn is 276. Right now, as it stands with the buildings: the
tasting room, the other buildings the occupancy without tents as of today is 251.
Frank Isler. Esp.: Is it fair to say that based on your answer the maximum that you
envision at the busiest time of the day on the busiest day of the season would be what
your occupancy is for the buildings in this proposed pole barn.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Nineteen June 3, 2013
Patricia Moore: If you're looking at occupancy of the structures. Obviously, if you go to
Harbes-I've been there in the summertime and there's 2,000 people in the fields
enjoying wine tasting and other matters of agro-tourism.
Donald Wilcenski: Pat, we're talking about this application before a public hearing for
Vineyard 48.
Patricia Moore: I understand that the question being asked is specifically as to
structures, but the way that agro-tourism has been operated by facilities throughout the
Town--we have 34 acres. So, as far as accommodating our clientele, we have 34 acres
that we could accommodate. Now is it realistic to expect that? Of course not. We
have an area that all the activity is taking place. But I think that there's a fallacy with
respect to how many people are standing there vs. the particular occupancy of the
individual structures. I think that's been a point of contention throughout the litigation.
So the question is somewhat-I believe that's been in dispute through the litigation.
Frank Isler: All I asked you was: "What do you envision to be the population-not how
it's calculated-but what is going to be your vision or your client's vision of the most the
highest number of people on the site at the busiest time of day on the busiest day of the
week. I'm not asking how you calculate it; your answer was based on the occupancy of
the building. I didn't say it, you did. So I'm just asking you.
Patricia Moore: I don't know if I can answer that question; you have to give parameters.
Frank Isler: You have a business plan for your property-your client does. All we're
asking you is: "What do you envision to be the number of people on your site at the
busiest time of the day on the busiest day of the year." That's the only information
we're asking. How you determine it is up to you. I just want to know for the Board's
sake what's the number.
Patricia Moore: I don't think I can give you that answer right now.
Frank Isler: Are you going to be able to give us that number before we close the
hearing?
Patricia Moore: I will discuss it with my client.
Frank Isler: OK. Second question: was a comment made by the public that your
comment does not have a current SLA license? What is your comment on that?
Patricia Moore: That is not correct. My client has a current SLA license. The Town
has been pressuring SlA to bring enforcement action since 2011. They therefore
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty June 3, 2013
initiated an action. We believe it's based on baseless charges. It's been going through
the process of being heard. Some of the neighbors that were here were actually at the
hearings to testify and so was Chief of Police there to testify. It has not yet been
concluded, but we are pretty confident that things will work themselves out. We have
no violations that have actually been substantiated.
Frank Isler: My only question was there was a comment that you don't have a valid
SLA license in effect and I just was asking...
Patricia Moore: I am not aware of that. We would not be able to operate without an
SLA license, and we are operating.
Frank Isler: Do you have any idea when that SLA enforcement proceeding might come
to a conclusion?
Patricia Moore: SLA has been asking for the adjournments for additional testimony.
I'm sorry, I'm not the attorney on that.
Frank Isler: That's OK, you don't know. That's fine. Thank you very much; I have no
more questions.
Donald Wilcenski: Anybody else? Anybody else from the Board or staff? Step to the
podium and please address the Board when you ask a question.
Bill Shipman, 75 Horseshoe Drive: Quick question for counsel, since he is present:
How much money has the Town spent approximately in litigation regarding Vineyard
48?
Frank Isler: I don't know. I'm not going to speculate. It's a matter of public record; you
can find out.
Bill Shipman: It's just another FOIL thing we have to go through to get the information
that's probably ready on hand. One other question: When I talked to Marty Finnegan,
Town Attorney, I asked him how the case was moving along, he said that you didn't ask
for any adjournment; is that true? The litigation with the preliminary injunction.
Frank Isler: The Town has in place two temporary restraining orders against the
Vineyard 48. Those are in effect whether the motions underlying them get adjourned or
not-those orders are in full force and effect. The injunction hasn't changed at all by
virtue of time lapsing or otherwise.
Bill Shipman: I understand that. The question is--the court dates are scheduled. Are
they being adjourned by Town counsel, by (Vineyard) 48 counsel or by judge?
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-One June 3, 2013
Frank Isler: They are not being adjourned by the judge; they are generally being
adjourned by counsel for the Vineyard with no objection from us because we are not
aggrieved by an adjournment because we have TRO's in place. The only thing that
would happen if there is no adjournment is the motions would then be decided by the
court on the very issues that we have-the injunctions in place. So, we are not
aggrieved by time because we have in place the same relief we are asking the court
ultimately in the case or close to that relief.
Bill Shipman: So, Mr. Finnegan was accurate in saying that the Town wasn't asking for
adjournment.
Frank Isler: We have no reason to ask for adjournments; we just don't oppose their
request for adjournment.
Bill Shipman: I didn't think so; I just wanted to make a public statement about that.
Thank you.
Donald Wilcenski: I think Heather had some questions, Pat.
Heather Lanza: Besides wine, can you tell us what other items are sold at the
Vineyard?
Patricia Moore: No. I can't give you that specific right now. It's whatever is permissible
under the law. We can't sell anything that isn't allowed.
Heather Lanza: Could we get some ideas?
Patricia Moore: Water, soda...
Donald Wilcenski: OK, I can see where this is going. Excuse me; to keep this moving
along we are going to be asking-again, for the public record-we are still going to be
accepting in writing any information that is not brought up here tonight. But Heather
does have a few more questions. If we can't answer them, we are gonna be going
through the process of the whole site plan application and through referrals during that
process we will make sure we do due diligence and get those questions answered. So,
if you have anything that you haven't heard here tonight that you would like to have
included, you can feel free to write a letter, fax it to our Planning Office, and we will
make sure it gets put into the record and it gets addressed.
Frank Isler: Also, if the applicant does not have answers to the questions that Heather
is asking you today-we're not trying to put you on the spot with that-but we would ask
that you provide them to the Board as expeditiously as possible.
Southold Town Planning Board Pape Twenty-Two June 3, 2013
Patricia Moore: I understand-I will provide them.
Heather Lanza: Another question I had was: Is there a charge to actually enter the
premises? So, if I go there do I get charged to enter?
Patricia Moore: Maybe you should have the owner......
Donald Wilcenski: Would the owner like to step to the podium and answer some
questions?
Patricia Moore: This is not supposed to be a third degree, but we're happy to answer.
Donald Wilcenski: This is a public hearing and we're trying to get as much information
out. Heather is going to ask you a few questions that we have. If you can't answer
them, you can't answer them. But we will ask the questions.
Heather Lanza: So the question was: Is there a charge to enter the premises?
Matthew Metz, Vineyard 48 Owner: No. What happens there is--when you walk in we
charge you for the tastings. We give you coins or pieces so therefore you can have
tastings at your leisure. So what you're paying for is the wine tastings.
Heather Lanza: And what if I'm a designated driver and I'm not gonna drink.
Matthew Metz: You can come in for free. And pregnant women come in for free.
Heather Lanza: And I don't know who wants to answer this questions, but you talked
about that you moved the dancing to the courtyard. Now the question I have is: Where
are the speakers located?
Matthew Metz: First of all, we didn't move the dancing to the courtyard. The speakers
are inside the tasting room.
Heather Lanza: And how do the people outside hear it?
Matthew Metz: The doors are open.
Heather Lanza: And, I think this was addressed earlier, but I wasn't really clear, so I
wanted to ask: How are you preventing the noise from disturbing the neighbors-what
are steps you are taking to do that?
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Three June 3. 2013
Matthew Metz: We use decibel meters and we walk the property line. We are allowed
65 decibels max. We make sure we are under 65 decibels.
Heather Lanza: OK.
Patricia Moore: I would also add there was a question or a comment by one of the
gentlemen regarding the proposed building and why the opening is to the courtyard and
to the south. There is the large cement processing building on the east side of the
property which provides a noise barricade. Obviously the neighbors don't feel it's a
complete barricade, but it is as far as the layout of the property. As you can see, the
buildings to the south and to the east, the processing and the warehouse buildings
create a physical barrier enclosure in a sense to the courtyard. So, when you are
discussing attempts to control the noise, we are trying to control the noise with physical
structures and the placement of walled sound barriers. I think the Architectural Review
Board asked if we would add additional noise baffling to the inside of the building, and
that wasn't a problem for Mr. Metz.
Heather Lanza: You may have answered this before too, but I just wanted to hear a
little bit more about what you do to control the drinking. I was a bartender in college
and we had very strict rules about serving intoxicated people. So, I'm wondering:
How are you controlling the intake of alcohol for people and dealing with that situation?
Matthew Metz: We will not serve a person that's intoxicated. We have strict laws with
that. Now sometimes, the person that buys the bottle of wine is not the one that's
gonna drink it. We try to police that; that's why we have security there. The security I
have has expertise working in that situation and they are told to police it. And when
buses come up, if the people are drunk inside-which happened a couple of weeks ago
(I believe there's a police report)-they wouldn't leave-we call the cops. The security
force called the cops to have those people leave.
Heather Lanza: Just one more question: How do you tell how many people are there?
Matthew Metz: Security has counters. They count the people that come in and count
the people that leave.
Heather Lanza: OK.
Frank Isler: I just have one question for clarity: I was pretty sure I heard Pat say in her
initial presentation that the dancing had moved from where the tents were and were
going to go to the courtyard and that underneath the tents were going to be picnic
tables. I think I wrote that down. You said that's not the case.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Four June 3, 2013
Matthew Metz: We don't promote dancing. That's number 1. Number 2, under the big
tent, there was over a year ago, we put picnic tables under there to stop it. We find it
almost impossible to tell people-even moving their hips is dancing-we do not
promote dancing. If somebody dances, it's very hard to police because I didn't know if
it was against the law to dance in this Town.
Frank Isler: So there's no designated dancing.
Matthew Metz: No, there's no dancing there and no dance floors-nothing.
Frank Isler: Thank you.
Donald Wilcenski: Does any Planning Board member or staff have any questions?
Bill Cremers: I think there's somebody in the audience...
Donald Wilcenski: OK. I don't want to get into a question and answer. You have to
step to the podium, please.
Kathleen Scheuermann: Can the police officer answer a question for us? How many
police reports does this vineyard have compared to the other vineyards in the Southold
Town? I'd like that on the record.
Donald Wilcenski: Chief Flatley, if you would like to answer that?
Chief Flatlev: I don't have that, Don. I don't have exact numbers. But we've been
involved in a very lengthy SlA hearing on this that we are still in the middle of. And in
the courts they are compiling records for that. There are numerous reports; probably
almost three to four times more at this winery than any of the other wineries in the
Town. We had about 18 reports there in 2011; about 35 reports there in 2012. We are
up to about 6 already in 2013.
Donald Wilcenski: Thank you. We do have that information in our possession; it's in
the file. At this time, I would just like to make everyone aware that it's a very emotional
situation and we want you to know that this Board is understanding and we hear you.
This public forum I think worked out well; everything that you said will be taken into
consideration. There is a process that needs to be taking place for this to move forward
and we will do everything we can to make sure that both sides are happy. At this point,
Patricia Moore: If I could just make one comment-and it's really in line with what you
are saying.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Five June 3, 2013
Donald Wilcenski: Sure.
Patricia Moore: To the community, I know Matt has taken very seriously your
comments and complaints. I know you are frustrated, and we have heard your
comments. I think Matt is certainly-we're willing to meet with you. I know that people
have complained or wanted to meet with the management and were told they were too
busy. They are not too busy to meet with you; they do want to meet with you. We do
want to satisfy; we want to be good neighbors. I hear your comments. All we can do is
move forward-not move backward. The complaints that you've had about prior
behavior-Mr. Metz and his principals have very aggressively tried to train their
personnel, hire new management and address your complaints. They are being heard;
they are not going to ignore you. Whether the Planning Board requires it or not, we are
willing to meet with you. So please, I know some of you don't care, you're frustrated-
but the offer is there. You're welcome to call my office; I can give you my phone
number after this meeting and we can set up a community meeting. We are going to try
to work with you. That is what we have been trying to do throughout this process.
That's why we came in for an amended site plan. We could have continued the way we
were going-battling in the courts-but it seems for all of us that we want to try to get
resolution not through the courts but certainly through cooperation. So that peace
offering is being made; it's up to you if you want to entertain our offer. Thank you.
Donald Wilcenski: OK. Just to make sure before we disperse I just wanted to add a
few more comments. Once again, it is emotional and I feel for you. I live next to a
vineyard; I hear music. The other thing I would like to add, too. I think again, I use the
word "emotional" and some comments were made about our local police force and I
think they do a good job. We have a lot more information than you have and we will
work on this. It's also the beginning stages of the amended site plan application. So,
I'm going to ask for a motion to leave this hearing open for another month to July 1,
2013 which would also allow anybody here or anyone to write or fax or email any
comments that you have.
James Rich: Mr. Chairman, I make that motion.
Bill Cremers: Second.
Donald Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Donald Wilcenski: Motion carries. Thank you all very much for coming out tonight. We
will be in touch. Please carry your conversations to the hall; we have additional
business to attend to. Thank you.
Southold Town Planning Board Pape Twenty-Six June 3, 2013
SUBDIVISIONS -SKETCH DETERMINATIONS
Maaratooka North, LLC -This proposed Open Development Area (ODA) will create a
development area of 4.5 acres in a 22.5-acre parcel with the future potential to be
subdivided into a maximum of three residential lots and one 18-acre protected farmland
parcel in the A-C Zoning District. The property is located at 17405 NYS Route 25 on the
n/s/o NYS Rt. 25, approximately 1,185' e/o Mill Lane in Mattituck. SCTM#1000-115-2-6
Pierce Rafferty: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make the following resolution:
WHEREAS, this proposed Open Development Area (ODA) will create a development
area of 4.5 acres in a 22.5-acre parcel with the future potential to be subdivided into a
maximum of 3 residential lots and one 18-acre protected farmland parcel in the A-C
Zoning District; and
WHEREAS, the New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets is partially
funding the Town of Southold's purchase of Development Rights Easement on the Filed
Miscellaneous Map through grant Contract No. C800753; and
WHEREAS, the New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets has
conditioned the grant funding to restrict the future subdivision of the Open Development
Area to one lot not to exceed one acre in area; and
WHEREAS, there shall be no subdivision of the property except for one lot that shall be
located in the Open Development Area. The lot shall not be greater than one acre and
the design of the lot shall be subject to a formal subdivision approval of the Southold
Town Planning Board; and
WHEREAS, fee title ownership of the portion of the Open Development Area that is not
included in the permitted lot, shall not be separated from the Easement Area. The
portion of the Open Development Area that is not included in the permitted lot shall
retain the right of two permitted or special exception uses, so long as those uses do not
require further subdivision and subject to any additional Town approval required by
Chapter 280 of the Town Code; and
WHEREAS, on December 3, 2010, the agent submitted a Sketch Plan Application
along with other required material for submission pursuant to §Article V Sketch Plat
Review; and
WHEREAS, on January 3, 2011, the agent submitted a required Sketch Plan Fee in the
amount of $500.00; and
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Seven June 3, 2013
WHEREAS, on January 10, 2011, the Southold Town Planning Board reviewed and
accepted the above-referenced application and asked for clarifications to be made
regarding the reserved area note; and
WHEREAS, on June 29, 2011, the Southold Town Planning Board reviewed the
application at their Work Session and requested changes to the map; and
WHEREAS, on October 11, 2012, the agent submitted a revised copy of the map with
the changes requested; and
WHEREAS, on November 15, 2012, the agent submitted correspondence regarding
additional restrictions required by New York State and an unexecuted proposed deed
containing NYS required restrictions; and
WHEREAS, on November 19, 2012, the public hearing was held and closed; and
WHEREAS, on December 3, 2012, the Planning Board reviewed the Draft Covenants
and Restrictions and the revised maps; and
WHEREAS, on December 19, 2012, the agent submitted three copies of the map with
the requested changes; and
WHEREAS, on May 31, 2013, the agent submitted a copy of the Covenants and
Restrictions filed with the Office of the County Clerk, Liber D00012731 and Page 519;
and
WHEREAS, the submitted application meets all the requirements for Sketch Approval
pursuant to Article V Sketch Plat Review; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby grants Sketch Plan
Approval upon the map entitled "Maaratooka North, LLC Open Development Area"
dated June 20, 2010 and last revised November 5, 2012, prepared by Nathan Taft
Corwin, III, Land Surveyor.
Bill Cremers: Second.
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Eight June 3, 2013
SITE PLAN DETERMINATIONS
T.K. Alpha, LLC Shopping Center -This site plan is for the proposed construction of a
2,475 s.f. mix-use building consisting of two store fronts fora 1,100 s.f. retail store and
1,375 s.f. restaurant. There is an existing 605 s.f. building proposed to be removed on
an 11,561 s.f. parcel located on the n/s/o Pike Street, approximately 100' e/o Love Lane
in the Hamlet Business Zoning District. The property is located at 535 Pike Street, ±100
e/o Love Lane, Mattituck. SCTM#1000-140-2-20
Jim Rich: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following resolution:
WHEREAS, this site plan is for the proposed construction of a 2,475 sq. ft. mix-use
building consisting of two store fronts fora 1,100 sq. ft. retail store and 1,375 sq. ft.
restaurant. There is an existing 605 sq. tt. building proposed to be removed on an
11,561 sq. ft. parcel located on the north side of Pike Street, approximately, in the
Hamlet Business Zoning District in Mattituck; and
WHEREAS, on December 13, 2011, Edward Broidy, owner, submitted an application
for site plan review; and
WHEREAS, on December 15, 2011, the Southold Town Zoning Board of Appeals
reviewed the proposal to construct the proposed building within the Code required side
yard setback of 10' from the property line -applicant proposed a side yard setback of 5'
and granted the variance as applied for under Appeal Number 6521; and
WHEREAS, at a Work Session held on January 9, 2012, the Planning Board accepted
the application for review; and
WHEREAS, on January 30, 2012, the Planning Board, pursuant to Southold Town
Code §280-131 C., distributed the application to the required agencies for their
comments; and
WHEREAS, on February 1, 2012, the Southold Town Fire Inspector reviewed the
application, provided comments, and determined there was adequate fire protection
and emergency access for the site; and
WHEREAS, on February 6, 2012, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to
State Environmental Quality Review (SEAR) 6 NYCRR, Part 617.5 (c) (3), determined
the proposed action a Type II Action as it falls within the following description for 6
NYCRR, Part 617.5 (c) (7) "construction or expansion of a primary or
accessory/appurtenant, non-residential structure or facility involving less than 4,000
square feet of gross floor area and not involving a change in zoning or use variance and
Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Nine June 3, 2013
consistent with local land use controls" and, therefore, not subject to SEQRA review;
and
WHEREAS, on February 22, 2012, the Suffolk County Planning Commission deemed
the site plan application a matter for local determination as there appears to be no
significant county-wide or inter-community impact(s); and
WHEREAS, on March 6, 2012, the Mattituck Fire District found that there was adequate
fire protection for the site; and
WHEREAS, on March 9, 2012, the Southold Town Engineering Inspector reviewed and
approved the proposed drainage and the Planning Board accepted his
recommendation; and
WHEREAS, on March 12, 2012, a public hearing was held and closed for the above-
referenced application; and
WHEREAS, on March 13, 2012, the Town of Southold LWRP Coordinator reviewed the
above-referenced project and determined the proposed project to be consistent with
Southold Town LWRP policies; and
WHEREAS, on March 26, 2012, the Architectural Review Committee reviewed the
application, provided comments, and the plans were revised to the satisfaction of the
Planning Board; and
WHEREAS, the applicant requested that the on-site parking requirement be decreased
from nineteen (19) parking spaces to eight (8) parking spaces, including one (1) ADA
compliant handicapped parking space; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board, pursuant to Southold Town Code §280-131 B (5), has
the discretion to vary or waive the parking requirements for site plan applications where
doing so would not have a detrimental effect on the public health, safety or general
welfare, and will not have the effect of nullifying the intent and provision of the Site Plan
Requirements chapter of the Town Code; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board, pursuant to §280-78 of the Town Code for "off-street
parking areas", may waive all or a portion of these [parking] requirements within the
Hamlet Business District where it shall find that municipal parking facilities within 300
feet of the proposed use will adequately serve the proposed use; and
WHEREAS, the Planning Board found that there is adequate municipal parking located
within 150 feet of this site and is sufficient to provide a portion of the required parking
Southold Town Plannina Board Paae Thirty June 3, 2013
for this site. The eight (8) parking spaces provided on the site plan are all that will be
required on site; and
WHEREAS, on April 26, 2013, the applicant submitted the original of the site plan
approved and stamped by the Suffolk County Department of Health Services on April
10, 2013 fora "Wet Store (t/o 16 seats) and Dry Retail @ 239 gpd" under Reference
Number C10-10-0006; and
WHEREAS, at their Work Session on May 6, 2013, the Southold Town Planning Board
determined that all applicable requirements of the Site Plan Regulations, Article XXIV,
§280 -Site Plan Approval of the Town of Southold, have been met; and
WHEREAS, on May 31, 2013, the Southold Town Chief Building Inspector reviewed
and certified the proposed retail store and restaurant as permitted uses in the Hamlet
Business Zoning District; be it therefore,
RESOLVED, in accordance with the findings above, that the Southold Town Planning
Board hereby waives a portion of the on-site parking requirement;
Bill Cremers: Second.
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries.
Jim Rich: and be it further RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board has
determined that this proposed action is consistent with the policies of the Town of
Southold Local Waterfront Revitalization Program;
Bill Cremers: Second.
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries.
Jim Rich: and be it further RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grants
Approval with Two (2) Conditions to the site plan entitled "T. K. Alpha, L.L.C." dated
April 7, 2010 and last revised April 18, 2013, prepared by John T. Metzger, Peconic
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-One June 3, 2013
Surveyors. The Chairman is hereby authorized to endorse the site plan, including the
following nine (9) pages of related plans:
1) Site Plan
2) Building Elevations
3) Floor Plan
4) Overall Site Lighting Plan: 1"= 20'
5) Partial Site Lighting Plan-North: 1"= 10'
6) Partial Site Lighting Plan-Central: 1"= 10'
7) Partial Site Lighting Plan-Rear of Building: 1"= 5'
8) Partial Site Lighting Plan-East Walkway: 1 5'
9) Luminaire Schedule (fixture details and label key)
Conditions:
1. The signs proposed above each store front shall be constructed with the same
height dimension and shall meet all sign requirements in Town Code.
2. Sidewalks shall be maintained for pedestrian access, and kept clear of
obstructions for a minimum width of four (4) feet along the front of the building,
and for the entire width along the side of the building.
Bill Cremers: Second.
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries.
STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT -Negative Declaration
CJC1 Corp. -This site plan is for the proposed construction of an 80' x 112' mixed-use
building. The first floor containing approximately 3,354 sq. ft. of retail space, 1,677 sq.
ft. contractor's business office, 4,960 sq. tt. for general storage and a 1,188 sq. ft.
second floor apartment -with an area of unfinished attic (total 8,502 sq. ft.) on a 1.036
acre parcel in the B Zoning District. The property is located at 74495 NYS Route 25,
approximately 734' west of Moores Lane, on the n/s/o New York State Route 25,
Greenport. SCTM#1000-45-4-4.1
Southold Town Planning Board Pape Thirty-Two June 3, 2013
Martin Sidor: WHEREAS, this site plan is for the proposed construction of an 80' x 112'
mixed-use building. The first floor containing approximately 3,354 sq. ft. of retail space,
1,677 sq. ft. contractor's business office, 4,960 sq. ft. for general storage and a 1,188
sq. ft. second floor apartment -with an area of unfinished attic (total 8,502 sq. ft.) on a
1.036 acre parcel in the B Zone located Rt 25, Greenport; and
WHEREAS, the applicant submitted an application for site plan review on January 26,
2007; and
WHEREAS, on February 6, 2007, the Planning Board accepted the application for
review; and
WHEREAS, on April 19, 2010, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to §617.6
of the Environmental Conservation Law acting under the State Environmental Quality
Review Act, initiated the SEAR lead agency coordination process for this Unlisted
Action; and
WHEREAS, on June 14, 2010, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act §617.6, established itself as lead agency for
this Unlisted Action; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to SEORA, hereby
makes a determination of non-significance for the proposed action and grants a
Negative Declaration.
Bill Cremers: Second.
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries.
Corazzini, Richard -This proposed site plan is fora 6,000 s.f. addition to an existing
3,150 s.f. building for office space and storage on a 6.8-acre parcel in the LI Zoning
District. The property is located at 6245 Cox Lane, ±560' n/e/o CR 48 & Cox Lane,
Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-84-1-32.1
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Three June 3, 2013
Bill Cremers: WHEREAS, this proposed site plan is fora 6,000 s.f. addition to an
existing 3,150 s.f. building for office space and storage on a 6.8 acre parcel in the LI
Zoning District, Cutchogue; and
WHEREAS, the applicant submitted an application for site plan review on January 23,
2013; and
WHEREAS, on February 21, 2013, the Planning Board accepted the application for
review; and
WHEREAS, on February 22, 2013, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to
§617.6 of the Environmental Conservation Law acting under the State Environmental
Quality Review Act, initiated the SEAR lead agency coordination process for this
Unlisted Action; and
WHEREAS, on May 6, 2013, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State
Environmental Quality Review Act §617.6, established itself as lead agency for this
Unlisted Action; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to SEORA, hereby
makes a determination of non-significance for the proposed action and grants a
Negative Declaration.
Jim Rich: Second.
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries.
APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
Don Wilcenski: I need a motion to approve the Board minutes of May 6 and May 20,
2013.
Jim Rich: I make a motion.
Bill Cremers: Second.
Southold Town Planning Board Page Thirty-Four June 3, 2013
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries. I need a motion for adjournment.
Martin Sidor: So moved.
Bill Cremers: Second.
Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. All in favor?
Ayes.
Don Wilcenski: Motion carries. Have a good evening.
There being no further business to come before the meeting, it was ADJOURNED at
7:35 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Linda Randolph, Tran ribing cretary
`~~t"~~. RECEIVED ~~-~4
Donald J. Wilcenski, Chair Q, ~ p Ft~
JUL 2 2013
S thol ~ n