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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Southold Town Hall
Southold, New York
February 7, 2013
10:12 A.M.
X
X
RECEIVED
FEB $ ?.013
BOARD OF APPEALS
Board Members Present:
LESLIE KANES WEISMAN Chairperson/Member
JAMES DINIZIO, JR. - Member
KENNETH SCHNEIDER - Member
GEORGE HORNING - Member
VICKI TOTH Secretary
JENNIFER ANDALORO - Assistant Town Attorney
GERARD GOEHRINGER - Member (Excused)
Jessica DiLallo
Court Reporter
P.O. Box 984
Holbrook, New York 11741
(631)-338-1409
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Hearing:
INDEX OF HEARINGS
New Suffolk Waterfront Fund, Inc. #6617
Robert Hoey, #6624
Shamgar Capital, LLC
(Daniel Buttafuoco), #6620
MMMM Beer, LLC, #6621
Peter and Teresa Benotti, #6623
Breezy Shores Community, Inc.
{Naomi Mullman), #6622
Page:
3-39
39-56
56-58
58-82
82-89
89-113
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HEARING
%6617 - NEW SUFFOLK WATERFRONT FUND, INC.
through the Special Exception criteria that
you're considering today, and then I am
sure there will be other comments and
questions that we would want to spend our
time on. I wanted to quickly recite the
purpose of the MII Zone to provide a
Suffolk.
Is there
to open with
like to?
MS.
Wickham.
Waterfront
Mattituck.
someone here that would like
comments? Gall, would you
WICKHAM: Yeah. My name is Gail
I represent New Suffolk
Fund, 13015 Main Road,
I just want to briefly go
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Our first
application before the Board is for New
Suffolk Waterfront Fund, Inc. That is
#6617. This was adjourned from
January 3, 2013. Request for Special
Exception per Article XIII Section
280-55(B) 1 to operate a restaurant in a
Marine II District, located at: 650 First
Street, corner of Jackson Street, Main
Street, adjacent to Cutchogue Harbor in New
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waterfront location
water dependent and
This Special Exception for a
usually is appropriate under
you're required under the
for a number of reasons.
store a long running use
for a wide range of
water related uses.
restaurant
the standards
code to consider
First, it will
of the property
but on a much smaller scale, more
keeping with the character of the
community. The Galley Ho had 95 seats and
24 slips approximately, and that is being
scaled down almost by 30 percent. It is
more realistic from an economic viability
perspective to -- just addressing the fact,
that our original application was a
slightly larger marina and slightly smaller
restaurant. We have come back to you with
a proposed approximate, 66 seats, 15 slips
because it
is more realistic from an
economic viability pinpoint. It is
essential in order to keep this property
sustained, to have a viable economic use.
The restaurant seating is more productive
then a slip rental. The other reason that
this is appropriate for a Special Exception
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is, it establishes a waterfront venue or a
cafe. And there aren't even with all our
shorelines and all our restaurants, there
aren't really a huge number of waterfront
restaurants available in the North Fork
area. So we think it would be excellent
for the community and the Town as a whole
to have this waterfront dining opportunity.
We don't
restaurant will
community. It
think that the additional
be excessive to the
is a destination community.
Both restaurants existed side by side for
many years and this is going to be a much
smaller and more limited hours of
operation. It's not going to be sort of an
all night honky-tonk. It will be an
excellent accompaniment to the many events
that the Waterfront Fund sponsors. They
have a chowder fest,
fairs, and all kinds
Wednesday night races
would just be a nice
art shows, craft
-- the impromptu
and beach going. It
accessory to people
who come to those events and want to stay
and have a snack or a bite to eat, or
perhaps a drink. We all know at the end of
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the day everyone is going to go over to
Legend's anyway because that is what they
do now. So don't think that it's going to
be excessive for the usage and the
community. Another important factor, it
will produce an actual parking lot, where
it faces and many, many more spaces that
have been available in this impromptu
gravel, random area. It will also provide
room to expand that parking shall that
become necessary or advisable. One other
very important factor is that this will
upgrade the sanitary system to something
that will be acceptable to Health
Department standards. It will protect
Peconic Bay and it will protect the
groundwater. The Waterfront Fund does now
have approval from the Health Department
for an upgraded septic system. It's a very
big crypt type system. They don't really
want to build because it would interfere
with this system and what not. So the
resulting scale down restaurant concept
will enable them to contour the land so
that with a sanitary system they can just
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put park like amenities and make it
attractive and improve and maintain that
vista that is all important to the
community and the Town, of looking towards
the bay. So just to reiterate the general
items that you have to consider on a
Special Exception, you have to consider is
this thing, land use patterns. The project
will conform to that. You have to consider
character. That will conform to this
project. Also, the natural environment and
beyond just upgrading the septic system and
providing parking, it's going to preserve
by creating this re-subdivision with
Robin's Island Holdings. It's going to
create a preserve of over one acre of prime
bay front, plus the park area with a
waterfront property, which will be a
tremendous enhancement to the environment.
However, without the ability to
economically use this 2.4 acre property,
that the Fund is going to maintain after
the transfer to -- it will be a Peconic
Land Trust nature. This tremendous plan
can not happen. So it's all connected.
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The transfer, the connection, the park and
the utilization of the property as a
restaurant marina. It's all tied together.
It's essential to the viability of the
project, to the fundraising of the project,
and we hope we will have your support on
it. Most importantly, from the perspective
of the Board's concerns, is that as a
Special Exception, your Board will have
continuing jurisdiction over this project.
Further, the Planning Board will fine tune
all the details when we get to the Site
Plan and construction process. I have a
few other things to say but they are more
in the way of a general overview. We would
like to remind the Board, and this is as
just much for the record as it is for you,
that this is the downtown area of New
Suffolk, such as New Suffolk has a
downtown. This is what business is
supposed to be. This is the MII Zoning,
which of course includes restaurant uses.
And in fact, years ago, there was not only
a marina and restaurant, they also had more
intensive services, marine service
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facilities, post office and general store.
The plan will allow the adjacent business
properties orderly and reasonable use of
their properties by improving the parking,
improving access, drawing people to the
area and giving them a destination. It's
going to allow the adjacent residential
properties orderly and reasonable use for
the same reasons. And also, giving them a
beautiful site near their homes that they
will have access to and be able to use as
community amenities. It will by it's
nature, have a seasonal character. And we
just think that there are probably
questions that you want to get to, but
those are the items that we would like you
to consider in making this review. Thank
you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Thank you,
Nancy. Just so that we can have a sense of
how many people are here. I would like to
see how many of you are here in support of
this application, would you raise your
hands, please? And how many of you have
some concerns about this application or
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opposition? Thank you. It gives us some
idea of where we're going time wise. We
have already addressed the change in the
original and proposed 55 and 24, the
restaurant and the 24 boat slips. That was
a question that I had although none of that
is concrete. As for this Board, the
greater concern that we have is that it's
less intense use that was historically on
the property. You have listed possible
future parcels on the survey along First
Street.
MS. WICKHAM: That is existing
parking, for overflow. It's not something
that we want to lay-out specifically when
we ask for a site plan. We think the
Planning Board is going to want to address
that, and tell us how they want to see it.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: In your parking
yield, you're not including those?
MS. WICKHAM: That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Relative to the
two uses?
MS. WICKHAM: That's correct. As I
mentioned in my cover letter, the mass
a
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parking that is proposed on the site in the
main parking area, is sufficient under the
code to meet the proposed uses on that
site. Ail of them.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: I think for the
benefit of the public, I would like to
explain something without getting to
technical. The Board is very aware that
since we adjourned this hearing a month
ago, we have received at least 25 letters.
I may be off by a letter or two, and we
just got one this morning. So that is
going to be 26 letters, e-mails and so
forth. Of the 25 that we have received, 23
were in support of the application and two
had concerns and were in opposition. We do
have a new letter, and the author is in the
audience and may want to summarize for us.
Of course the Board will read this, but
certainly we're going to take additional
comments from the audience. And I would
like people -- we took a lot of testimony
last time on both of these applications.
So I would like for us to try and -- either
add something new or reiterate something
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that is essentially as essentially as
possible for the sake of time, and not
necessarily repeat things as people have
said. So let's see if the Board has any
questions at this point. And I would like
to open it up to the audience as soon as I
explain one of the things that I want the
public to be aware of. Many of the
concerns, understandably, as I am sure you
are aware, has to do with environmental
impact. We know that this is a private
piece of land, which (In Audible)
regularly. That has historically been the
case and likely continues to be the case.
And I think that a number of people have
grave concerns about how the property is
used relative to that flight. This Board
asked for a survey, that is a little bit
different from what we originally asked
for. And the reason is, we are obligated
with Special Exception permits to look at
SEQRA. That stands for State Environmental
Quality Review Act. And that looks very
carefully usually with
specialist, at adverse
an environmental
impacts -- potential
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adverse impacts on a property. There is an
exemption for triggering SEQRA before this
Board that says if a proposal is of new
construction but is going to be rebuilt
in-place and in-kind, then SEQRA will not
be triggered and we can determine that to
be a Type II action, meaning no further
review by this Board is required. Had we
not done that -- we don't know fully that
your plans, and you said so, in the future
are going to likely move the restaurant
back farther away from the VE Zone, Flood
Zone, and into a less intense flooding
area. The second that that takes place
before the Planning Board, SEQRA will be
triggered. It will be thorough and
complete, by law, reviewed of all the
potential problems with septic, with
drainage onsite, which you must comply with
Chapter 236 of the Stormwater Drainage
Code, the Town. There is a whole range of
things. Traffic impact. Ail of those will
be covered under SEQRA. Had this Board not
done it this way, we would have been
required to undertake SEQRA our self. That
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would have delayed this particular
application by a month and it would have
cost a good deal of money to hire a
consultant. So I want you to be all aware
of the fact that the law will require much
more intense and further review where there
will be numerous public hearings, where
people will be able to address issues on
septic, curve-cuts, ingress and egress, all
parking and so on and so forth. So I just
want you to be mindful of the fact that it
only begins at the next phase. It is not
concluded here today by any means. Having
said that, let me see if there is anyone
here on the Board at this point, who has
questions.
Ken, I will start with you?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I have no questions
at this point. There has been so much
material presented to us. I would like to
hear some comments. So I will preserve my
questioning.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Does the rest of
the Board feel that way?
MEMBER HORNING: I have a couple of
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questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: George has some
questions.
MS. WICKHAM: I'm sorry, I didn't hear
that. I didn't hear what Ken said.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I have no questions
at this point. I would just like to
reserve my questioning.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Till after we
hear comments.
MEMBER HORNING: I have a technical
question for the Board on bulkhead
setbacks. How is that going to relate to
the future of when they move the building
and such?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: If the building
is moved to a nonconforming bulkhead
setback, meaning less than 75 feet away
from the existing bulkhead, closer to the
road, then you will be back here for the --
or the applicant's would be back before our
Board for an area variance, which would
need a setback variance. If it's placed in
a conforming area, which would be 75 feet
from the bulkhead, then there are no new
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nonconformities that have been created and
therefore, relief will not be necessary
from the Board of Appeals.
MEMBER HORNING: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: So it depends on
how they work with their final Site Plan
approval. Where you go with Planning Board
and where you decide to place all this and
parking and so on.
MEMBER HORNING: Gail, would you tell
us please, what the difference is now
between -- you got a county approval for
some proposed septic system and some sort
of an artifical elevation to have built
berms around also?
MS. WICKHAM: Some time ago earlier in
the project when this plan had not been
developed, an application was made to the
Health Department to reinstate the Galley
Ho where it is, as it is on the whole piece
of property. And there is a stamped Health
Department map but it involves building a
very large -- we call it a cliff. It's a
big pile of dirt with cesspools in it
between the Galley Ho and the road. And
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that would be ugly and horrible, and that
plan was discarded in favor of these other
plans, but it does illustrate the Health
Department has reviewed the property and
does understand that there are approvable
aspects of the sanitary systems, and we're
going to go right in, as soon as we get
through these preliminary stages to ask for
this type of system, which is a much more
(In Audible) type of contours to happen in
the area. It will go to how far back the
building is and also those other things,
but certainly whatever we do is going to
require extensive Health Department review,
and they already do have quite a file on
it.
MEMBER HORNING: So on the latest
survey that you put in with the parking --
MS. WICKHAM: That is existing as we
understand it.
MEMBER HORNING: Right. You have
location
of possible subsurface sanitary
possible location, and yet it's possible
also that you have to move the building.
MS. WICKHAM: Yes.
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MEMBER HORNING: It doesn't show any of
these contours, even where --
MS. WICKHAM: The map that was
submitted originally to you by Barrett
Bonacci & Van Weele, shows the flood zone
lines.
be an
restaurant building now
street, sanitary covers are
lot. Mr. Fischetti inserted
"possible," because he took
surveyors map, which you
didn't actually get down
That particular map was intended to
as-built and it reflects the
and where either a
in the parking
the word,
it from the
have, and he
there and crawl
around and ensure that they were. He is
relying on the surveyor's map. He did make
sure that they were there, which you have
on your file, and they are also repeated
here on his map. That is existing.
MEMBER HORNING: That is existing.
Are they in the flood zone?
MS. WICKHAM: You know --
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: They are.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The whole
property is a flood zone.
MR. FISCHETTI: Joseph Fischetti
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representing New Suffolk
those are existing.
approved. Those are
Fund. George,
They will never be
existing cesspools
even the location of this barn, which may
get in the way of things.
MS. WICKHAM: Yeah. If I can answer
your question, and maybe at the same time
respond to my -- I am literally skimming
the letter from Ms. Harkoff. This project
the ground. They have no bearing on
anything. Once submissions are made to the
Health Department, all sanitary systems
have to meet current requirements. What
we're showing you there is older systems
that are in the ground, that I didn't even
inspect. So I don't even know what they
are. They're probably an old block or brick
cesspool. So I really don't think that it
really has a bearing on anything other than
they're noncompliant and they're probably
sitting in groundwater.
MEMBER HORNING: So other than
addressing the parking, everything else is
in-flux, the location of the building, the
location of the septic system and perhaps
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has a very long regulatory process ahead of
us. We're at the very beginning of what we
can do and types of uses that can be
maintained. We have a tremendous amount of
engineering. The DEC's and Trustees
approval. Health Department approval. FEMA
compliance, which will involve moving and
raising the main restaurant building. The
plan at this point is to leave the barn as
it is and the other building as it is.
There is also going to be inserted a New
York State Parks review because of the
conservation easement, and hopefully we can
spare you another variance if we can get
the building back enough from the bulkhead.
So that is a possibility. So really the
Site Plan construction phase is to zero in
on where everything is going to be. This
is what you're faced with today and just in
terms of uses. Any of those uses that you
do apply to Special Exception still have to
sit within the framework of all these other
regulatory criteria. And we think that
because of the sanitary system will be
designed to current code. It will be
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elevated. It will be secured. The
building will be raised and secured. There
will be additional bulkhead work done, for
which I believe you already have the
regulatory permit. We think that the site
will be safe and better protected from the
storms that are coming through our way and
it will most likely continue to. So that is
always going to be a concern, what is
built, is built to be safe.
MEMBER HORNING: Thanks for the update.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: I think the
audience ought to know from a legal
perspective, a Special Exception permit is
not granted perpetuity. It is subject to
revocation by this Board to a public
hearing process should the standards that
is required by law to approve or disapprove
such an application be in any way altered
in any dramatic way. In other words, if in
fact a Special Exception permit is granted
by this Board, and they're not able to
obtain the kinds of other permits or Site
Plan approval that is required by law to
proceed with the project as proposed, this
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Board has the right to revoke that permit.
Unlike an area variance, which runs with
the land, once granted, it's granted. The
Special Exception permits are always
subject to further review. So be mindful of
the fact that this Board taking action is
linked to other actions that other agencies
will undertake, whether it's for the Health
Department or the Planning Board.
Jim, do you have a question or a
comment?
MEMBER DINIZIO: My concern as of the
last date, is that we couldn't have
anything to stamp at the end of the process
to say that we were approving a restaurant
on this property. This certainly makes it
abundantly clear. That at this point,
what's on that piece of property is what's
there and of course knowing and for being
on the Board for 25 years, the process is
not complete here at all. You know, I
certainly agree with the concept of some
kind of restaurant there and you know, the
marina has always been there. I just want
to thank you for your hard work on giving
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me at least an idea of what is there.
MS. WICKHAM: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: I want to open up
this hearing to the public now. Perhaps
what we should do, is to have people
address concerns at this point. Give them
an opportunity to voice their opinions and
raise the issues that they think are
relevant.
Is there anyone here that would like
to do that?
We also have things in writing, by the
way, and that is sufficient, if people
would prefer to submit comments in writing
and have submitted comments. There is no
need to enter it into the oral transcript
of the hearing. They are a part of the
record. They're attached to our files. They
have all been read. The Board have copies
of every single memorandum, e-mail and
letter that anyone has written. We have all
read them thoroughly and will consider them
carefully. So let me just open it up to
anybody. Is there anyone in the audience
that would like to address this application
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in any way?
MR. MAUL: My name is George Maul. I
live in New Suffolk. I am going to stand
over here so I can address the audience
well as the Board, if that's okay?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Actually, you
as
need to address the Board.
MR. MAUL: Okay. I appreciate all of
the Board's deliberations. I appreciate all
of the letters from the community. I
understand all of the support for this
project. It appears to me that in some
sense, this Board is taking opportunity to
kick the issue down the road. I understand
a lot of this is about Planning, the
Planning Department and it falls within
their purvey, but I want to say that I
think some extent, in my opinion, that this
Board is kicking the issue down the road.
As far as community support for this
application, I think that the Zoning Board
here should ask about -- besides asking
about support, a raise of hands, a call for
who supports this project and who doesn't
support this project, I think that the
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Zoning Board should also ask who -- when
Gail stood up, she spoke about how this
piece of property is downtown New Suffolk,
and that is just not true. There are other
business properties, hamlet business
properties in downtown New Suffolk. This
entire property is not the downtown New
Suffolk business community -- excuse me, I
am talking, Gail. If you call for a show
of hands from a (In Audible) on First
Street, adjacent to this property and who
is in favor of this project and opposed to
this project, you will get a very different
the property. The people who live adjacent
to this property are much more severely
affected by what goes on there. It's all
well and good if Barbara Schnitzter wants
to come out from another town or wherever
she wants to come from and say I want a hot
dog at the Galley Ho, and that is a
wonderful thing, but then she goes back to
where she is and we're all there every day,
showing. There is a reason why these
applications come up, that notices are sent
out to people who live within 200 feet of
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you know? And I think that is part of what
is going on here. It's not clear, or else
it seems like it's not clear to me. I
understand the support from the community
but there are businesses here -- parking
and that are really planning issues but
that is really all I have to say about
that.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: You're right.
They are Planning Board issues. This Board
does not undertake SEQRA unless there is
infrastructure that is not to code. In
this case, that is not the case. And so
for us to do so, would be at great length
and at great costs for this Board and for
the public to bear. Let me see if there
are other comments. Please come forward
and state your name for the public record.
MR. VICTORIA: My name is Ted
Victoria. I live --
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Spell your last
name, please.
Victoria, V-I-C-T-O-R-I-A. My house is
on First and Main Street. I am right at the
owned
upper center. My father
originally
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that place and he used to have the Sip &
Dip luncheonette there. It went out of
business because there wasn't enough people
to eat there. I am very concerned about
traffic. New Suffolk has very few
sidewalks. People walk in the street. On
Saturday's and Sunday's in the summer,
there is absolutely no place to park.
People come down, they want to go down to
the beach. A lot of them don't have parking
permits to park on the beach. So a lot of
them park on my lawn. Last summer, I had to
call three times because I had cars and one
trailer car up on my lawn. And I am
really, really concerned, that when you
open
down
day,
up a space that is possibly bringing
60-70, possibly 100 more people down a
that off the top of my head, I am just
estimating could be 40, 50, 60, 70 more
cars and bring more traffic into that town.
It could be a disaster. It could really
change that forever. I have been to a lot
of places. I owned buildings in Soho. I saw
what happened to that community. And the
thing that I learned from all the great
one
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things that happened to that community, it
turned into a shopping mall. And what I am
really afraid of, of this particular
building and this particular space and
putting in another restaurant, could make
a big change in the community. And what I
am afraid of, if you make that change and
if you approve this restaurant, if you
approve that many more people to come down
into community, along with the many other
things that they have planned or mentioned
at the last meeting, which is an
amphitheater, such as a nautical museum,
plus this restaurant. You are going to
make drastic changes to that community,
where a lot of us live. I think you should
go through those 25 letters or 35 letters
that you received and try and determine how
many of those people live down at that
local corner. I don't -- It would be
interesting to see where those people live.
I will finish it up by saying that once you
make the changes like this, there is no
going back. There is no going back and
saying, "Hey, we want New Suffolk back the
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way it was before." We could lose a private
hamlet. Even with a restaurant like
Legends, which is a destination restaurant,
brings a lot of people in, but they close
early and they serve good food. It's a very
quiet place, and I mean, it works for the
community, I think. And another thing to
have two opposites next to each other in
competition, I don't -- I am not too sure
that it's a good idea. So I just don't want
to see things happen that we can't change
later on. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Thank you. Let me
just clarify some things relative to what
you said, sir. This Board is considering a
marine and restaurant use. No other uses
are under consideration, nor would they be
permitted without further action by this
Board. Just to reassure you that falls and
is considered by this Board.
Is there any other comments? Please
state your name.
MS. FRIEDMAN: My name is Joni
Friedman. We have lived in New Suffolk for
20 years. We live downtown and our very
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much passionately aware of how much just in
the recent years, have brought our
community together in terms of support and
fundraising, hopes and dreams to bring back
this area to a wonderful place. And my
memories of 20 years ago when the Galley Ho
was the only thing open in the entire area
during storms and it was everyone's port
during the storm. In the summer, we had
lovely classes and activities and events
that brought not only our community
together, but people from our area that
really love the idea of preserving a piece
of our area. And there are so much
destruction of our natural views. There are
houses and properties that are just being
devastated in our community that we have no
control over and taking control and
preventing this kind of construction and
destruction and trying to preserve a view
and a natural piece of our area, is so
important to all of us that has been
working so hard to support it, and I hope
that all of you can see that. Those that
live in the community that have lived here
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all these years, I hope that they can see
eventually the bringing of a community
together, and people supporting each other
and wanting to be in an event and community
project that really benefits all of us, and
I thank you for your time.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Thank you.
Any other comments?
MS. SCHNITZLER: Barbara Schnitzler,
220 Old Harbor Road. I am the Chair of New
Suffolk Waterfront Fund. I would just like
to address a couple of parking things that
were brought up. We are aware that there
is a parking problem in New Suffolk. Ted
is talking about a parking problem that is
not caused by us. It's a preexisting
parking problem. We have provided the kind
of parking that the Zoning Code asked to
provide. We have also negotiated an
arrangement to seal one-third of this
property to somebody who is not going to
use -- create any kind of parking problem
at all. And that happens to be right
across the street from both of their
houses. So we're preserving an acre of
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property which will preserve our view and
will not require a parking place. We have
two other offers to sell that property.
There were two other groups that wanted to
buy that property. We opted for the one
that would not create any traffic. So that
one-third of our property is off the board
for creating like any traffic problem at
all. So we know by code and what Gail was
referring to, that is the downtown. That
is the whole street of downtown, not just
our property. We understand and are
willing to work with, and we have been
working with. We have been allowing use of
our parking for Legends and Summer Ball for
the last three years because we understand
if they park along that street they will
have one half of their spaces, if we allow
them to use ten feet of our property to do
parking. We understand that, and it took
us five years to raise money for this
property. So by giving away part of our
property for use by others, we are saying
that we understand that there is a parking
prolem, and we're trying to help with that
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parking problem. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Anyone else?
(No Response.)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Does the Board
have any questions?
MEMBER HORNING: No.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I don't think that
we're kicking the can down the road quite
honestly. This property could be used for
high rack storage. It could be used for
many more intense uses, without the fact of
splitting it and preserving some of it,
from what I can understand, the community
again. To say that we're kicking it down
the road, it's not true. With all of that
said, I have been involved with the Zoning
Board for 25 years and I have heard a lot
of things. A lot of people standing up,
you know, how they envisioned their piece
of property to be and see the metamorphosis
communicate into something different. I
can tell you that I sat on the first
Special Exception we granted for the winery
Christina Vineyards. There was opposition
to that. Mostly it was because as their
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lawyer said, we're putting barbs in their
residential zoning. You just have to read
the paper now to see the result of that
decision, okay. It wasn't because of that
decision, but it was how people envisioned.
And I am sitting up here envisioning wine
and cheese, with a piece of -- you know,
something else, and what do we get,
advertisements in the New York Times and a
lot more traffic now. The reason for that
is marketing. I have been skimming over
the Legend thing, and I think that you all
should read that. I am not trying to talk
you out of what you want to do because it
really sounds nice. I mean, I was against
the park in Greenport because our tax basis
was going to be affected by it. Something
I hold near and dear to my heart, because
Greenport School District has a (In
Audible). I can tell you that I am down
there every Friday night listening to the
band. And if my 60-year-old body would let
me, I would ice skate. But you really have
to serously think about -- you are going to
lease it to somebody who wants to make it a
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restaurant. He is going to want to make
money on that. It's the only way to do
business is to make money. Marketing is not
something that I am particularly good at,
but man, have I seen -- you think one thing
and they're thinking another. You know, the
Legend thing is talking about that. I just
think you should think -- you're going down
a long road. We all know that that
restaurant -- even if it were in good shape
today, could not exist today. You would
need a building permit for a restaurant and
a marina. It just couldn't. No matter what,
even if the whole land was put together, I
just don't think that it could run as a
restaurant. So you're going to have to
comply to today's standards and today's
standards are much stricter. I mean, just
drainage alone and having to keep drainage
on your property, is going to be feat. So
you guys may just want to consider-- you
know I read all of your letters, they're
nice. It seems nice that you can go out and
seems nice that you can maybe have a small
wedding and gatherings. That all really
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seems nice but that is a long road. I wish
you all the best of luck but I hope that
you're looking at it through more
businesslike mind then just hot dogs on a
Saturday afternoon. Thank you.
MS. WICKHAM: I do appreciate your
comments and I certainly understand the
regulatory and construction process. This
is going to be brutal. What I did want to
respond to quickly though, is that here you
don't have the typical landlord/tenant if
we do rent out the restaurant. You have the
community group that is going to be the
landlord. Not a private owner. It will
have to respond to its operating capacity
and behave as a business to the community.
So I think that is an important point that
the community needs to stay aware of.
Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Thank you, Gail.
We appreciate all of the comments and the
participation of this community of this
project. Just to reiterate what is
currently before this Board is a request to
renew what expires as a Special Exception
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permit for a restaurant use. That is all
that is before this Board. Public
commentary is part of the necessary
process. It's very important to us. We
consider it very carefully. However, the
Board has legal standards that we have to
use in deliberating as to whether or not
grant such an application. It isn't based
upon public opinion. It isn't a vote upon
the public. It's based upon what is set in
the code. Again, commentary is very
important to us. We consider it carefully
but we can not proceed one way or the other
by those comments because we have standards
that we defer to are the basis by which
this Board makes a determination. You
either meet them or don't meet them.
Having said that, is there anything else
that the Board wishes to comment on?
(No Response.)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: What I am going
to propose that the Board do is because
this is such an important application to
the community, rather then propose to close
the hearing today, I am going to propose
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that we close the hearing today subject to
receipt for one week of any other written
comment. We will close the oral record and
leave the written record open for one more
week in the event that you were not able to
be here or someone has something more that
they would like to inform the Board about.
That is in all fairness for anyone in the
community that wishes to further address
this. Do you understand what we're saying?
We're not going to take any more oral
testimony. We're going to close this
hearing but we will leave the written
record for one week. If any of you are or
neighbors wish to write anything, may do so
through the office of the Zoning Board of
Appeals to our secretary Vicki Toth. She
will make sure that the Board gets copies
of all of those. At the earliest onset, we
will be deliberating on this application
two week today -- actually it's going to be
Wednesday. The Board had to change it's
original meeting to Wednesday, the 20th of
February, over in the Annex, which is the
bank building down this way in the
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conference room. You are all welcome to
sit and listen for the deliberations.
There will be no testimony taken, but you
are all welcome to attend. It will be on
the agenda if we can have a draft by that
time. We can take up to 62 days, in which
time to deliberate. But I am sure that we
will act much more swiftly than that.
Is there any more comments?
(No Response. )
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Hearing none. I
am going to make a motion to close this
hearing subject to a one week frame for
receipt of additional commentary.
Is there a second?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: All in favor?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Aye.
MEMBER HORNING: Aye.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
HEARING #6624 - ROBERT HOEY
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The next
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application before the Board is for Robert
Hoey, #6624. Request for variance from
Article III Code Section 280-15 and the
Building Inspector's November 2, 2012,
updated January 3, 2013 Notice of
Disapproval based on an application for
building permit for an accessory two car
garage with shed and loft, at: 1) accessory
building is proposed in a location other
than the code required rear yard located
at: Private Road, a.k.a. Treasure Road
Pond, off East End Road, Fishers Island.
MS. MOORE: Patricia Moore on behalf of
the Hoey's. This is what I would like to
describe as a technical application. This
property was or is directly -- it has water
view and it would be for all respects a
waterfront property. It is not a local
waterfront. There is a beach in front of
it or the seaward side of it. So it does
not conform as a waterfront property
allowing a garage in the front yard. So
due to that, the only reasonable location
for this garage is in the front yard. The
property is sloped and the area where the
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garage is proposed is adjacent to the
circular driveway and the house. So the
placement of it is very carefully thought
through. And again, it's technical
application because this property, Wild
Waterfront views is not a waterfront
property. It does conform in square
footage. We have lot coverage. Everything
else is conforming other than placement. I
would be happy to address any questions
that you have. I think the application
speaks for itself.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The first thing
that I need to do is talk about the
affidavit of posting, which we didn't
receive. We're going to have to have it
obviously.
MS. MOORE: Yes, of course. I believe
CMS, the contractor was right there on the
site and it would have been sent to him.
Hold on a second. I apologize, it didn't
get into my file. I will get it to you
today.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Sure. Thank
you.
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Actually, I would like to ask you the
proposed garage has a second-story loft, is
that heated, unfinished, finished?
MS. MOORE: To my knowledge, it's not
finished. It is -- let me see what the
plans show.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: It has built in
cabinets and a window seat. So it kind of
looks like it's going to be a tenant. I
can't say, but it looks like it would be.
MS. MOORE: I don't have any details
on that. I apologize. It's not living
space or sleeping quarters, but my clients
intended use of it is whatever the code
would allow, which is non-habitable space.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Well, that is
the thing that popped into my mind on what
it was going to be used for. It looks like
a finished space. George did a site
inspection for us.
George, do you have any comments or
questions that you would like to raise?
MEMBER HORNING: Sure. Was there any
thought given to attaching the garage to
this structure?
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MS. MOORE: That would have been
something -- I did talk to them about that
possibility but they did want to have it as
a separate detached garage. There is a way
that the design of the house wouldn't -- it
wouldn't make sense to have a connection.
I think the plans would have detracted away
from the design of the house. So they did
consider it, but as I said, they are not
planning on using the second floor as
living space or sleeping quarters. So I
know had they wanted to do that, I had
advised them to typically connect.
MEMBER HORNING: To the extent that
they could have attached it and not needed
a variance, and it's a self created
hardship to request a variance because they
did have a choice?
MS. MOORE: Well, no. Take a look of
the topography of the property. The
topography on the adjacent -- about the
only location that you can put it is in the
front of the house. Like directly in front
of the entrance, which would not be in
keeping with the design elements of the
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house. If you attached it to the side,
which is typically where you put a garage,
you see the topography falls off. So
designing an attached garage here, it
really wasn't -- the property is so sloped.
This is --
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: That is
generally true but this is a new house. It
could have been designed differently. You
know -- just wanted the record to show that
there was a choice that the applicant made.
This is not a preexisting dwelling. It was
designed from scratch on this property and
George's point is well taken --
MS. MOORE: I understand.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: If they had
wanted to avoid a variance, they would have
designed the house --
MS. MOORE: Sure.
MEMBER HORNING: Because I want to
lead in the question because of the
differences of grade, because the garage is
at elevation higher than the house, from my
visual observation at the site at least. I
don't know how many feet higher but it's
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built on a hill side. I was wondering if
there is going to be any grading there to
have it at a different height then -- the
stakes are in the hill side so to speak?
had a hard time figuring out where the slab
of grade was going to be looking at it.
MS. MOORE: You make some very good
point and questions. What I would suggest
is that I would bring the architect in and
explain the rational. Sincerely, there was
a lot of discussion between the architect
and the owner that I wouldn't have been
privy to. So the location -- after a lot
of consideration because the first thing
that we try to do is avoid a variance as
possible. The only location would have
been down the slope around the house, as
you said. Placing the house where it was
proposed is where they could keep the
grades at a minimum. Changing the grades
of the entire property, you kind of start
working with the sanitary and work your way
around to the location of the house. So I
know there was a great deal of discussion,
but I would prefer to have the architect
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here. So if you would want those, I would
like to put on the record, the answers to
those questions. Why don't we -- you can
certainly give me as many questions as you
would like and I can -- we can adjourn this
to the time where I can get the architect
out. He's coming from Manhattan. So quite
frankly, I didn't anticipate that this was
going to be a problem application given the
character of the neighborhood and placing
it as a detached garage in the front yard,
where the code says itself, if this was a
typical waterfront property, and for all
intense purposes, it is a waterfront
property. Just not the technical
waterfront because of the little strip. I
don't know who owns -- I think it's open
space maybe. Is there a house down there?
MEMBER HORNING: There is a house down
there.
MS. MOORE: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The elevations
do show that it is built into the grade.
It's clear from these drawings on what's
going on here.
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MS. MOORE: It's a
looking it at one area
one side and --
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
MS. MOORE: Right.
other.
MEMBER HORNING: Is there any way
provide the -- at least approximate
one-story from
-- you know, from
Two --
Two from the
distances from neighboring houses?
to
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: You could
probably do a Google alert thing.
MS. MOORE: Yeah.
MEMBER HORNING: And that might help
your argument.
MS. MOORE: It may be in the main
file. I can check. I will get the Google
maps for you.
I would have to see if
provide that.
MEMBER HORNING: I
handy because it might
feet from any adjacent
think it might be
be several hundred
neighbors house.
my surveyor can
MS. MOORE: Well, I think to the
property line, we have setbacks showing
there. If you wanted from adjacent homes,
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MEMBER HORNING: It may be several
hundred feet. And if you can provide
distances --
MS. MOORE: I can give you approximate
from the Google maps; if that is all right?
MEMBER HORNING: Yeah. You can put it
in the area of several hundred or whatever
it is.
MS. MOORE: Sure.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Jim, any
questions?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No. I would just
like to see the architect tell me why he
can't attach it to the house, I guess.
MEMBER HORNING: It is flat ground.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: My question is,
do we need to hold this hearing open for
that, or can we have a written explanation
from the architect as well as Google Earth
map indicating the neighboring property, is
that sufficient for this Board or do you
think that you would want to question --
out,
MEMBER DINIZIO: You said he's coming
right?
MS. MOORE: No. I would have to have
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him come out. If you really want to ask
him several questions, certainly I could
provide you with a written explanation of
their thought process. That is not a
problem. It could be as long or as short
as you would like or I could have him come
whatever questions you
What utilities are
here and ask him
would like.
MEMBER HORNING:
going into the garage?
MS. MOORE: Well, I don't believe --
we have the interior. I don't believe
there is any water because there is not a
bathroom. Typical -- yeah, there is no
bathroom.
MEMBER HORNING: Well, I am
referencing on the one Hoey project, from
Paul --
MS. MOORE: Yeah, I am looking at it.
MEMBER HORNING: Provide underground
utilities.
MS. MOORE: Yes, we have electricity.
MEMBER HORNING: It says provide water
service next to it also.
MS. MOORE: I believe that is to be
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able to put a hose. I don't see --
MEMBER HORNING: Electric?
MS. MOORE: Yes. Of course.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: I just checked
the fine print with my bible. It does
indicate in the loft, lx4 Oak flooring. So
certainly it is a finished space.
MS. MOORE: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Personally, and
I will just poll the Board to see where we
want to go. Personally, if the architect
is able to answer in writing why either
site was chosen and why not attaching,
which they could do as of right. What kind
of utilities will be in the proposed
building, and how the loft will be used?
The proposed use of the loft, you know,
finished space. Is it heated? Is it
unheated? We need to know that. And
obviously it needs to be a non-habitable
use. If I get that information, along with
what George is requesting, distances to
neighbors, the setback is quite substantial
as proposed from the property line, if this
building is very far away from other
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residences and we're satisfied with the
comments, I am okay with getting it in
writing, rather than adjourning it to a
another date and to talk to the architect.
Let me see if the Board feels differently,
and if that's the case, we will have a vote
to adjourn and have the architect come in.
Let's see how the Board feels?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I am fine with
you just said.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I am fine with it.
MEMBER HORNING: Me too. I will say
that just an aesthetic type of reasoning
and it is a hardship.
you
Well, that is
That is what I
what
have to be aware of the fact that you're
building against nature and not with it.
MEMBER HORNING: You're building with
nature. I take exception to that. I can't
believe that somebody would build a house
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
probably the case.
MS. MOORE: Exactly.
was just going to say.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Certainly, when
buy a piece of property like this, you
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and not have any forethought about having a
garage.
MS. MOORE: No, it has a zoned garage
there but they wanted an additional garage
for storage.
in addition to the
front of the house.
have had to put
Then --
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
there is nothing on here
attached garage.
MS. MOORE: I think
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
survey.
MS. MOORE: Let me
construction drawings of
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
So this is a detached garage
garage that is in the
Otherwise, they would
a four-car garage attached.
Interestingly,
that shows an
SO.
We have the
see if we have
the house.
We have
notice one?
I mean, there
the
photographs also. Did you
MEMBER DINIZIO: No.
might be one.
MS. MOORE: Just give me a moment. I
have a lot of pictures of this.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: There is no
driveway to it. I don't see -- there is a
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circular
MS. MOORE:
CHAIRPERSON
vehicular entrance.
MS. MOORE: I
MEMBER HORNING:
quickly through the
Change of character,
driveway.
You're right.
WEISMAN: There is
stand corrected.
no
If we may, just going
area variance reasons.
variance.
here, because "the property is naturally
sloped and the location of the garage is
a plateau, but the garage is not on the
plateau. The garage is on the hillside.
The location of the detached garage is
located at the gravel driveway and
maintained the natural vegetation along the
right of way." That to me, is really not a
reason on why you need a variance. And
then Statement #3, the amount of relief
requested is not substantial, and yet it is
substantial, because you're asking for it
to be in a nonconforming location, which is
I am reading from the submission
on
change. Benefits sought by the applicant
cannot be achieved by a method feasible for
the applicant to pursue other than an area
probably minor, if no
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a 100 percent relief from the way that we
determine it. It will not have an adverse
effect or physical impact on the
environment and it probably won't. It's
located away from wetlands. Statement
as to why you need the variance and why you
can't accomplish having the garage on the
property, either in a conforming area or
attached to the house, isn't addressed.
MS. MOORE: I actually have -- this is
what I put. When we were planning on where
to put the garage, I provided to the
architect what our considered rear yards,
front yards and side yards. I will give it
to you for the record. The house creates a
side yard, which would not permit the
placing the accessory structure on the side
further to the rear yard. It's hard to
describe.
MEMBER HORNING: This is what I have
here. I worked with Vicki to determine
that.
MS. MOORE: As you can see, you have
side yard that would have created a
variance. You have the rear yard in the
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back, which is the sloped area and has the
water views. And that is very sloped. You
have where it is proposed in the front but
meeting the setback, other than it's
placement. And then you have the front
yard, and as pointed out, the right-of-way,
so we would need to put the garage over
there as well. So this location seems most
appropriate out of the alternatives. Do
you want these for your file?
MEMBER HORNING: I mean, those things
make sense in the fact that if you needed a
variance.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Any comments or
questions from the Board?
(No Response.)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Is there anyone
in the audience that would like to address
this application for Robert Hoey?
MS. MOORE: Just very quickly,
supportive and they had no
was
FITCO
issue with
this proposal.
MEMBER HORNING: And again, just for
the record, the proposed front yard setback
is 108 feet?
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MS. MOORE: Yes.
MEMBER HORNING: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Hearing no
further comments, I am going to make a
motion to close this hearing and reserve
decision to a later date, subject to
receipt of a letter from the architect for
the various questions that we have asked
and the Google maps indicating the
distances from residential homes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Ail in favor?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Aye.
MEMBER HORNING: Aye.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
HEARING #6620 - SHAMGAR CAPITAL, LLC
(DANIEL BUTTAFUOCO) .
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The next
application before the Board is for Shamgar
Capital, Daniel Buttafuoco, #6620. Request
for variance from Article III Section
280-14 and the Building Inspector's
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October 21,
based on an
for
at: 1) more
of stories 2
Kimberly Lane,
Southold.
We have a request
on that application.
that was prepared to
application today?
{No Response.)
has
2012 Notice of Disapproval
application for building permit
construction of a third story addition
than the code required number
1/2, located at: 1165
adjacent to Southold Bay in
for an adjournment
Is there anyone here
address that
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The architect
submitted a letter dated
February 3, 2013, requesting an adjournment
because of the date of posting and mailings
have not been completed. Hearing no
comments, I am going to make a motion to
adjourn this application to March regular
meeting, which is March 7th at 10:00 A.M.
Is there a second?
MEMBER HORNING: Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Ail
MEMBER DINIZIO: Aye.
MEMBER HORNING: Aye.
in favor?
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MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
make a motion that we open
ZBA File %6536, application
the applicant's architect.
Is there a second?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Ail
MEMBER DINIZIO: Aye.
MEMBER HORNING: Aye.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye.
I am going to
the forum for a
for request of
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Aye.
That would be on for April 4th regular
meeting.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
HEARING %6621 MMMM BEER, LCC.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The next
application before the Board is MMMM Beer.
That is application %6621. Request for
variance from Article XI Section 280-47 and
the Building Inspector's December 12, 2012
in favor?
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Notice of Disapproval based on an
application for building permit for
demolition and reconstruction of a portion
of an existing commercial building at:
1) than the code required front yard
less
setback
Main
Peconic
that
of 100 feet, located at: 42155
Road, a.k.a. State Route 25, corner
Lane, in Peconic.
Is there someone here to represent
of
application?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Yes. Good morning.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: State your name
record, and spell it.
for the
MR. VANDENBURGH: Good morning, Ladies
and Gentlemen. My name is Richard
Vandenburgh, and it's
V-A-N-D-E-N-B-U-R-G-H. I am the principal
for the applicant for the relief sought in
this application before the Board. I am
the principal for MMMM Beer. I have been a
resident for Southold for over 20 years. I
have been actively engaged in our community
in many forums. I have
local law firm for many
appeared before this
been a partner in a
years and have even
Board with a client or
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two. I have been an active leader with the
Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts in Southold Town
and I am an active member on the Greenport
Business Improvement District, and have
also served as President of (In Audible)
Insurance Property Owners Association for
multiple terms. I have two children in
Southold Public Schools, and have been
married to my wife Ann, for 20 years, and
she works at the Hampton Jitney in
Greenport. However, I stand before you
today not as an attorney but rather as a
business owner that has been attempting to
pursue my passion as developing a small but
growing brewery business on the North Fork.
Those of you that may not be familiar with
our business, my partner and best friend
John Liegey of more than 30 years, own
Greenport Harbor Brewery. We are in
Greenport next to the old jail on
Carpenter's Street. Just to give you a
little bit of a background on that, John
and I became best
joined a lifelong
enjoying well
friends in college and
passion of making and
crafted balanced ales. We
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dreamed of opening our own brewery one day.
The opportunity arose in 2008 to purchase
the small abandoned firehouse in Greenport
on Carpenter's Street and we jumped at the
chance. We then worked every available
weekend and holiday vacation to renovate
the building with our own hands. And yes,
we both have very understanding spouses.
After purchasing the building, we scraped
together enough of our own savings and
borrowed some money from family members in
order to purchase a small brewing system
that has been in Greenport for the last
three
us to
hired
and a half years. This system allows
brew 465 gallons at a time. We then
DJ Swanson as our head brewer in 2009
and officially opened up our doors on
July 12, 2009. We have been lucky to
receive high marks for our beer and have
brewed more than 30 different styles. We
started distributing kegs to our local
restaurants and pubs in the local Greenport
and Southold area, in fact, in the back of
my wife's car. Present, we only produce
draft beer and have not been able to offer
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any bottled because of our current space
limitations in Greenport. After opening up
in 2009, word got out and made it's way to
beer lovers and enthusiasts from Montauk to
New York City. We're lucky enough to join
forces with a well
company that began
across the Island,
upstate New York.
respected crew of beer
distributing our beer to
to New York City and
We have received
distinction
distinctive
publications
and Time-Out
for our well balanced and
styles from various
from the Wall Street Journal
and New York magazines. Our
brewery in Greenport became one of the most
famous stops people made when visiting
Greenport in order to see the brewing
process and taste the beers. Our fan base
grew and customers stopped regularly to
fill their growlers at the brewery and
enjoy a sampling of the various styles on
tap. Our ability to make the beer continues
to
another brewer, Greg
and a sales manager,
(phonetic)
exceed our expectations and we hired
Durowsky (phonetic
Jeffrey Wisnowsky,
both of local families here zn
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Southold. The space in Greenport was
getting really tight in Greenport and
reaching our maximum capacity in 2010.
we made
the brewery in order to kind
with the growth of our small
we realized
additional space into which we could
expand. We wanted to keep our business
some short term physical changes
of keep up
business.
that we would have to look
after
So
at
That
for
on
the North Fork, and even though we realize
that it would be much easier and less
costly to move our operations to some
industrial park in western Suffolk County
or Nassau County, we believe strongly in
keeping our production and brewing
operations local and on the North Fork.
There is a photograph on the easel, which
you probably all recognize the Peconic
location, which is the subject of the
application. And for us finding this
location, 42155 Main Road in Peconic
appeared to be an ideal location.
Originally built in or about 1927, by the
Vale Brothers as a Pontiac Car Dealership,
this property has seen a number of
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innovations,
station, service
facility. It is
from car dealership, gas
station and auto repair
comprised of approximately
2.8 plus acres and it is zoned for General
Business. So as we maxed out our
production company in Greenport at the end
of 2002, we envisioned renovating the
Peconic location to support our growth and
also into bottling our beer; however, it
was important to us to not only enhance the
visual appearance of the property but to
also create an efficient and sustainable
process that would support a growing
business. To that end, we feel that it
would be necessary to construct a new Cool
Room on the property to house our beers.
Based on the interior dimensions and the
cost of the renovation and the existing
footprint, we're seeking to locate this
building on the same footprint as the prior
structure. You will recognize this as Main
Road and Peconic Road. This would be the
production of the -- so this is the room
that would be the beer garden. The area
specifically talking about would be the
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rebuilding of the Cool Room. This is about
an eight foot high building with a block
structure. So it's not structurally sound.
(In Audible).
MEMBER HORNING: Sorry, you're
proposing to take down that building then?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Yes. That building,
as we started to do some of the work to
prepare the site, there are portions of
that building that actually started to come
down already. So yes, we're proposing to
take down that building. So John and I
believe strongly on a positive impact that
this will have for the east end. It will
provide more opportunities for sustainable
jobs in the area. It will incorporate
sustainable practices and promote a level
of ecological harmony in a manufacturing
setting. We're looking to incorporate
environmentally technology and practices,
solar rays. We're going to have a 50
kilowatt solar system on the roof. A rain
water collection. We're planning to
install some systems for a (In Audible) in
a nonintrusive manner. Composting
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practices, we actually supply that to
several local farm practices that supply
that to their local cattle in Riverhead and
cattle in Cutchogue. So our objective is
to really reflect the green in the
Greenport Harbor Brewing Company. I am
actually going to
Audible).
(Stepped away
defer you to this. (In
from the microphone.)
MR. VANDENBURGH: This is all
pavement. This is recycled concrete back
here. I really want to make the property
softer in terms of softer from the road. I
want to make the parking lot all stone
parking area. Again, the solar rays on the
roof. This again, is the structure that
we're talking about here. This is going to
be the beer garden here. So I am extremely
excited about transforming the property.
So both John and I are extremely proud of
our Harbor Brand and are involved in the
hands-on development in our business as one
could be. I have personally spent and will
spend many days on the site with my tool
belt on and shovel in hand working to make
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this property as
acceptable to our local
possible. We hope that
aesthetically pleasing and
neighbors as
our neighbors and
as to keep the
physical state
Southold Town will be proud to call home of
the finest locally made craft beer on Long
Island. We have never forget our humble
beginnings that has helped us build long
lasting and very friendly relationships
with all our neighbors in Greenport and
Southold. It is with that perspective in
mind that we ask the Board to approve the
application. That is a (In Audible).
These are the visual elevations of what the
property would look like. These actually
hold (In Audible).
(Stepped away
MR. VANDENBURGH: We have taken
building as much in a
as possible in putting in a
from the microphone.)
steps
because we feel there will not be any
undesirable change as a result of what
recess area. There will be a garage door
about here. (In Audible) in that location.
So more specifically, we submit and ask
that the Board grant the application
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we're asking for. Our location relative to
our neighbors is surrounded by businesses.
You can see to the north and to the east of
the property is agricultural, vineyards.
Across the street is a large sod farm. So
there should be no undesirable change as a
result of us constructing at that location.
Secondly, the benefit that we're seeking
cannot be achieved by any method feasible
for us to pursue other than the variance
that we're asking for. Again, that is
really relative to the structure of the
building.
to have it
submit that
substantial because
in size and scope.
It would not be feasible for us
in any other location. We
the amount of relief is not
it's relatively limited
Based upon the economic
and functionality of the structure, it is
going to be a structure that is extremely
efficient. It will be made of five inch
thick insulated (In Audible). You can see
the color depiction in that elevation. So
with the plantings that we plan to do
around as much as possible, it should
really fade into the back and into the
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other structures. We don't see any
negative impact on physical and
environmental conditions of the
neighborhood or the District. Certainly,
there is no sites of vegetation that we
want to perform this construction. We
really would be putting it back where that
building existed. And finally, we do feel
that it is the minimum that is necessary
while at the same time preserving and the
protecting the character of the
neighborhood and health, safety and
welfare. So thank you very much and I
would be happy to
you might have.
CHAIRPERSON
for the benefit
must be aware of the
variances before this
answer any questions that
WEISMAN: I just want to
of the public, that you
fact that these
Board are for a front
yard setback. The code requires 100 feet.
The building is preexisting nonconforming
in that, and you will be building 80 feet
from the front yard. That is the relief
that is being requested by this Board. It
is a B Zone. So the only thing that is
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before us is for that front yard setback.
I would also like the record to reflect
that we have received today comments from
the Planning Board. We have to
automatically send these applications to
them, and the application has been reviewed
and the Planning Board has no objection to
the requested area variance on the basis
that the building is existing, not
expanding its footprint and appropriate for
overall use of the building. The proposed
construction would appear to be screened by
the existing building and obstruction by
large views of Peconic Land.
May I ask you to move that easel over,
so I can please see everybody. Thank you
for the very lovely presentation.
Ail right. Let's begin with
questions. Jim, do you have any?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes. Could you
describe for me what a "Cold Room" does?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Sure. A Cold Room
is like a large refrigerator. Our beer in
the process of manufacturing the beer, it's
not pasteurized. So our beer has to be
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kept cold in order to ensure its shelf life
so to speak, freshness. So we maintain a
cold room at approximately 34 to 36
degrees.
MEMBER DINIZIO: So it's not -- you're
doubling the height of the ceiling?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: So it's not that
you're putting tanks in there, that is not
the case?
MR. VANDENBURGH: No. The reason for
the height of the building, again, trying
to stay within the footprint of that
existing structure, we -- right now we
produce about 3,000 barrels.
Theoretically, with all the approved
Suffolk County Health Department and
permits that we have, we can theoretically
generate almost up to 54,000 barrels of
beer in a year. The Cold Room has that
height because the stacking of the product.
You put stuff on the floor and then you
have the shelves, so that you can stock the
product of beer. The ingredients, we keep
hot and cold. Ail that is stored on racks.
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And the reason why the building is as high
as it is, is because it improves the
efficiency and be able to maintain all of
that in the accurate temperature that we
need. So we go up instead of going out
wider.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I thought I saw a
ramp there, could there still be a ramp
where you could back up trucks?
MR. VANDENBURGH: There may have been
when I submitted my original application.
There was a hand drawn site plan that my
sister had done, and the plans may have
also showed that there was a loading dock.
We do plan in the future at some point to
put a loading dock, so trucks would be able
to come off Peconic Lane and back up
because part of the process is while we
load the beer into the Cold Room, at some
point we're going to have to get it out
towards the truck. So the trucks can head
off to New York City or wherever. There is
a plan for some time in the future to put
that recessed loading ramp. You know,
right now we're counting our nickels and
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rolling our
done.
Room
back
idea
an
to
quarters
to do what needs to be
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes.
MR. VANDENBURGH: From this
perspective, to give you an idea, with this
being the Cold Room here, the truck would
be backing up here to the Cold Room.
MEMBER DINIZIO: So that is your
proposal now?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: So it's not going to
be effecting the parking or that side lane
there? Backing in and out?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Nope. There was one
lane right here that had an existing garage
door but that is not accurate because it
efficient process.
MEMBER DINIZIO: So now, when you want
do it, how do you propose the truck?
MR. VANDENBURGH: I can show you --
MEMBER DINIZIO: Is that by the Cold
MR. VANDENBURGH: It would be on the
side of the Cold Room. Kind of the
of product in and product out. It's
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talks about
blocks that.
MEMBER
(In Audible).
DINIZIO:
anticipate using that
MR. VANDENBURGH:
That door will not be
deliveries.
MEMBER DINIZIO:
have.
CHAIRPERSON
That essentially
So you don't
door?
Absolutely not.
used for any
Okay. That's all I
WEISMAN: George?
MEMBER HORNING: Just to make it
clear, referring to this Notice of
Disapproval permit to demo and reconstruct
a portion, that portion being shown on the
site plan as the area that has the raised
roof in this area?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Yes. In that area.
MEMBER HORNING: This area here?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Correct.
MEMBER HORNING: With an addition
added on?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Absolutely. If you
look at the old photographs, what we're
proposing to do is square that off.
MEMBER HORNING: And the 80 foot
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setback is to Peconic Lane?
MR. VANDENBURGH: That's my
understanding.
MEMBER HORNING: I just want to be
clear. Are you going to have some pathway
doors clear to go into the restaurant of
the structure besides the area to take
things out that Jim was asking about?
MR. VANDENBURGH: That's correct.
This area is where the interior garage area
will be, that will allow us to take the
beers here and move the bottles here.
MEMBER HORNING: And the tasting room,
that is not the same thing as "brew pub" or
is it?
MR. VANDENBURGH: Well, each room
there is different licenses. We have a
tasting room in Greenport. We are allowed
to serve people four ounces of beer, per
style. If we have eight styles of beer, I
can serve you four ounces of each one of
those styles. (In Audible).
(Stepped away from the microphone.)
MEMBER HORNING: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: That is way down
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the road.
MEMBER HORNING: I am not going to go
there because my doctor told me several
years ago, that I was drinking too much
beer. He said lay off the beer and stick
with wine.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Not today.
Ken?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No, I don't have
any questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Is there anyone
in the audience who would like to address
this application? Please come forward and
state your name for the record. You are
going to have to spell it too.
MR. LAFRENIERE: My name is Dave
LaFreniere, L-A-F-R-E-N-I-E-R-E. I own the
adjacent properties next to the brewery,
and I am not much of a speaker. I will
just stick to the point. I think that this
is a wonderful thing. It's a breath of
fresh air for Peconic and the Southold
Town, especially I am a beer drinker. I
think it's a wonderful thing. I do have
some concerns being on the corner there for
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30 years, trucking and limousines, and
Peconic Lane is a very dangerous corner in
the summer time. And we have one garage
door there that says "receiving." And I
know that tractor trailer trucks are about
70 foot long, and that would be a very bad
situation into receiving anything into that
garage door. Especially when people are
darting down Peconic Lane without paying
attention sometimes. The other concern
that I have is with the parking on the east
side of the building, because it's a very
dangerous intersection and I was just
worried that the entrance and exit of that
parking lot is too close to Peconic Lane,
where it's a blind spot as it is. That is
my only concern. Otherwise, I am a
supporter of this whole thing. I think
that it's wonderful.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Thank you.
Maybe I can ask a question just as a
follow-up. Do you propose to use the
Peconic Lane for ingress and egress for
anything other than commercial usage and
deliveries?
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MR. VANDENBURGH: The Peconic Lane
side is only going to be for the factory.
We have a couple of employees that will
park there cars back there and the trucks
that would come, which again, it's not
going to be a truck everyday. It's going
to be a truck once a week kind of thing,
you know at best. Maybe a truck once or
twice a week. It will be no closer than
the larger structure that is the entrance
to get to the back would go up the Peconic
Lane side.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: They are large
trucks?
MR. VANDENBURGH:
trailer size trucks. I
accurately reflects the
allow the truck to pull
They are tractor
think that
area that will
in and be able to
turn and then back up to the loading dock.
So there will be plenty of room to navigate
off Peconic Lane. Simply pulling in and
pulling out won't be a problem. The area
that they will be pulling in and pulling
out of is essentially directly across the
entrance from the Town Highway Department,
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and they have trucks
there all the time.
a problem.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
pulling in and out of
So that should not be
Can you tell us
approximately how many
section to where that
is?
MR. VANDENBURGH:
necessarily to scale,
175 feet down. It should
right around here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
feet it is from the
ingress and egress
While this is not
I would say at least
be in this area
Do you propose
any signage indicating where the public
entrance and exits will be, and --
VANDENBURGH: I really haven't
about that in detail. Just to
LaFreniere's point, we do
(In Audible). So Phase
MR.
thought
address Mr.
envision --
I is
try and finish what we're doing here now.
We still have to go back to the Planning
Board and discuss what I want to do all
back here, which I am quite certain, is
going to necessitate additional entrances
and parking area. At that point, signage
-- you know, the public is going to be
to
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addressed to these areas. Maybe it makes
sense to have signage that says "employee
parking only." Maybe someplace over here
direct public over here.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: At the moment,
Site Plan is not required for what you're
proposing but I believe that is an
important issue should there be any
additional traffic impact as a result of
standing operation that you would really
need to go back and change the scale. That
is usually part of the Site Plan process.
I think that it's an appropriate thing to
be brought up here. I think we all here
are aware of the traffic situation.
MR. VANDENBURGH: Absolutely.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Any other
questions from the public? Please come
forward.
MR. CICHANOWICZ: Hi, Dave
Cichanowicz. Do I need to spell my last
name? C-I-C-H-A-N-O-W-I-C-Z. I am speaking
as a long time resident and business owner
in Peconic. Yes, I did help him put this
plan together but I am involved in the
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stakeholders project that we did for
Peconic and reviewing and looking back at
the time when our Board got together to
think about the integrity and the future of
what we see the little hamlet of Peconic
and in keeping up with the times in
allowing some growth of business for
Peconic to the areas that kind of work.
This fits perfectly into our future plans
that we saw Peconic Lane as a whole
developing. We do now have the recreational
areas in kind of the central part. We have
the rec centers now at the beginning. Now
we have a brewery. It's a nice improvement
over a car dealership, where all you see is
blacktop and cars lining the road. And
probably more hazardous and traffic
problems with a car dealership then a brew
pub. Maybe, maybe not. Just in my opinion
as a long time resident of Peconic. I just
live down the road from there and seeing
all the changes that have, I thought that
this was a really great change for the
area. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Thank you. Does
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the Board have any questions?
(No Response.)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Anyone else in
the audience?
(No Response. )
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: I would like to
say one thing. It's very welcoming to see
the flourishing of a local business. It
goes well for all of us, and Peconic.
Hearing no further questions or
comments from the Board, I am going to make
a motion to close this hearing and reserve
decision to a later date.
Is there a second?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Ail in favor?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Aye.
MEMBER HORNING: Aye.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
HEARING #6623 - PETER AND TERESA BENOTTI
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The next
application before the Board is for Peter
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and Teresa Benotti, #6623. Requests for
variances under Sections 280-105 II (A and
B), based on the Building Inspector's
November 15, 2012 Notice of Disapproval
concerning "as built" 5 foot high fence and
"as built" 8 foot high fence around a
single family dwelling at: 1) fence height
at more than the code permitted 6 1/2 feet
in height when located in a front yard,
2) fence height at more than the code
permitted 6 1/2 feet in height when located
in the side and rear yards, at 930
Clearview Road, adjacent to Cedar Beach
Harbor, in Southold.
Is there someone here to represent the
application?
MR. BENOTTI: Yes. Good morning.
Good afternoon, actually. My name is
Dr. Peter Benotti. I am the homeowner and I
am representing myself.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Okay. Do you have
any green cards that you may have?
MR. BENOTTI: We have submitted all
that we have received. I have submitted a
tracking slip for one of the nonreturned
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envelopes. And the one that returned to
sender. And I have a letter for another
neighbor, which represents another letter
that was returned unopened.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Okay. And I am
going to give you a copy of a memorandum
from the Local Waterfront Revitalization
Program from the coordinator indicating
that the action is exempt from LWRP review.
That is just for your records. Because of
the waterfront property, it's being
reviewed by the LWRP Coordinator and it
indicates that the fence that you built is
exempt from the LWR?. It's considered a
minor action. So it would appear that you
have built a fence at 5 foot high in the
front yard, where the code requires 4 feet.
And 8 1/2 feet partially in the front yard
because your house is setback. It's still
considered a front yard because of the side
of your property where your house is
setback -- it's technically starts at the
side of your house.
MR. BENOTTI: I am not sure that there
is actually any 8 foot component on the
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front of the house because on the west side
of the house, the fence
fence. He already had a
is the neighbors
deer fence. So we
did not put a fence there. His fence is 9
feet high. Well, the Notice of Disapproval
indicates 8 feet in the side and rear yard?
MR. BENOTTI: That's correct.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: So that would be
along the water side and east side of the
property and the side yard. Okay. So what
would you like to tell us about your
application?
MR. BENOTTI: Well, all I can say that
this was a result of an honest mistake on
our part. We submitted an application for
this fence and I believe the application
called for a 6 foot fence to the Town
Trustees.
accepted,
consultant came in
When the application was
I engaged a fence company.
for an estimate.
A
it quite clear that our only chance
adequate deer protection was to put
foot fence, and a 6 foot fence would be
inadequate. This was corroborated with
some discussions by neighbors and I
He made
at
up an 8
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honestly never thought to go back to check
to see what the Town statutes were about
fence size. And didn't go back to check the
application. We went on and spent money and
built the fence, and then received -- and
when I had the Town come back for the
follow-up inspection, we were advised that
it was in error. So I really don't have
anything else to say other than it was
honest mistake. We live on a dirt road.
There has been no adverse harm or effect on
neighbors regarding the fence height. In
fact, it compliments as you can see. Giving
the issues that we have had in our family
with regard to health related issues and
pets with deer problems, I was anxious to
get some deer protection. And I must say
that I overlooked it in going back and
checking the statutes.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Okay. I must
say that I do understand given the location
of the property why you would do this for
the deer and ticks and all of that. It's a
very wooded area and huge amounts of
activity of deer. The code when it was
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changed, to permit the fencing only did so
on agricultural properties to protect crops
essentially. And that code needs to be
looked at again, but it's not within the
jurisdiction of this Board to do that. We
grant relief from the code, but we don't
change interpretation of the code. The
5 foot high fence that exist, which is very
permeable, the wrought iron part is not as
a substantial of a variance from the 4 foot
height. Particularly since it's not
stockade and not opaque. You can see
through it in my mind. Once the Board
accepts an 8 foot high fence, we have to
consider the consequences and the other
types of consequences of setting a
precedent. Whereby every one of your
neighbors could be coming in to request
exactly the same thing. The fact that the
code changed and as to why that happened.
If you understand what I am saying.
MR. BENOTTI: I understand fully. I
have a letter which comments on the caliber
of the sided fence and the fact that it's
see through and doesn't cause any aesthetic
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issues in his view.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: I am just reading
the letter now. Okay. Well, I do have to
agree that you have done it certainly very
well. It's a beautiful installation. Most
deer fence are pretty tacky looking.
However, it is possible to cut down that 8
foot fencing to 6 1/2 feet to the side yard
and waterfront side. That would require
some work. That is something that this
Board will consider. I just wanted to
advise you of that.
Jim, do you have any comments or
questions?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: George, any
comments or questions?
MEMBER HORNING: I have a comment,
maybe. I thought while I was around there,
I thought I had seen one other location
nearby that had deer fencing. I don't know
who that was.
questions.
CHAIRPERSON
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
I don't have any other
WEISMAN: Ken?
I just concur what
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you said.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Okay. Any other
comments from the audience?
(No Response.)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Okay. Hearing no
further comments or questions, I am going
to make a motion to close this hearing and
reserve decision to a later date.
Is there a second?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Ail in
favor?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Aye.
MEMBER HORNING: Aye.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
HEARING %6622 - BREEZY SHORES COMMUNITY,
INC. (NAOMI MULLMAN)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The next
application before the Board is for Breezy
Shores Community, Naomi Mullman, #6622.
Request for variances from Article XXIII
Code Section 280-123, Article XXII Section
280-116(B) and the Building Inspector's
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October 22, 2012 Notice of Disapproval
based on an application for building permit
for additions and alterations to a seasonal
cottage at; 1) a nonconforming building
containing a nonconforming use shall not be
enlarged, reconstructed, structurally
altered or moved, unless such building is
changed to a conforming use, 2) less than
the code required bulkhead setback of 75
feet, located at #11 Breezy Shores
Community, Inc., 65490 Main Road, a.k.a.
State Route 25, a.k.a. Sage Boulevard,
adjacent to Shelter Island Sound in
Greenport.
State your name for the record.
MR. HERRMANN: Good afternoon. Robert
Herrmann of En Consultants for the
applicants. We're here today, and knowing
that your last experience for a variance
request on one of the cottages here
representing something less than an
enjoyable experience for you all. And
knowing that, we have spent the better part
of last year, designing this project.
Considering feedback and any input from
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myself, from Joe Fischetti, from the
Building Department and from the Breezy
Shores Community and Architectural
Committee. It has indeed been our mission
to eventually end up here in front of you
today with a project and an application
before you today that you will hopefully
find in bright contrast to your past
experience. The project consists of
essentially of
renovations. Some
up with a cottage that will
similar to what is existing,
roughly structural or design
result of which will end
look remarkably
but with
deteriorating conditions, repairs to
improve aesthetic appearance, to improve
personality and to improve
protection. Specifically,
proposes first to replace
flood
the project
the foundation of
the cottage, which is in bad shape. Two,
to raise the finished floor of the cottage
by 2 feet 5 inches to provide flood
protection. The area where this particular
cottage is located is in an AE-6 Zone under
FEMA which requires a first floor elevation
of 8 feet. That we're proposing to go up
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to a 10 foot elevation because if you look
at the FEMA map, this cottage and the ones
next to it are actually located just
landward of the LiMWA line. The line of
moderate wave activity. So to be cautious
in light of all the weather that we have
been having, we will continue to have very
soon, we would like to raise the cottage.
To reconstruct in place with the same
dimensions the water side room, which like
many other Breezy Shore cottages in that
area that have been worn down over the
years. They are the rooms that face the
Shelter Island Sound. To reconstruct the
existing bathroom, which is a 5 1/2 foot
roughly 6 foot bathroom and expand it by
3 1/2 feet. And in doing so, bring the
ceiling height and fixtures in that room
into conformance with New York State
regulations. From the first time that I met
David and Joe at the property, I can
personally attest to the fact that the
bathroom is not able to be used by a grown
man in a traditional way that a grown man
would use a bathroom. They would also like
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to replace the existing roof and raise the
roof about 1 foot higher to create more
reasonable head room inside the cottage.
There is a proposal to add a small eyelet
dormer that would allow increased lighting,
and there is also a proposed -- what will
be like a fenced in outdoor shower adjacent
to the back. I just handed up to Leslie
before we started, and I think you have if
you want to lay them out on the chairs,
some of the photographs that we had
submitted with the application that show an
actual photograph of the existing cottage
and then a rendering of the proposed. The
application although you have not stated it
yet, is that we're under the understanding
that it is exempt from the LWRP waterfront
consistency review because all of the work
entails either in-place replacement of
existing structure or an expansion but an
expansion that is located more than 75 feet
from the bulkhead. Now, despite that, we
still need variance relief from this Board,
because like all of the Breezy cottages,
the cottage itself is less than 75 feet
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from wetlands. So under your usual
interpretation of that of the Building
Department, it's an expansion of a
nonconforming building with respect to
setbacks requires relief. And the Board had
also previously determined, I believe from
a similar case, that all of these seasonal
cottages are a nonconforming building and
nonconforming uses, which have been noted
on the onset, cannot be expanded without
relief, unless they're converted to a
conforming use. Now, as the Board knows,
the subject cottage is 1 of 28 seasonal
cottages that were established on the
property in the early 1900's. When they had
workers of the former state brick factory
who later rented to summer guests in the
1940's. The cottages have been individually
owned by shareholders along with the real
estate property known as Breezy Shores Inc.
As recognized in the matter of Hernan
Otano, ZBA case #6525, because each share
is governed by the cooperative that is a
proprietary lease, that permits only
residential uses on the property. The
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Board stated, "any other use permitted in
the Town Code is virtually impossible,
given the cooperative ownership." Indeed,
if the use of the cottage were changed to
anything other than the existing
residential one is seasonal cottage, the
applicants ownership in the cottage would
be rendered without value. With respect to
whether granting these area variances would
cause a detrimental change to the character
of the neighborhood or a detriment to
neighboring properties, it was again
determined in the Otano case, is it's
unique properties that represents its own
neighborhood of more than 82 acres and is
far removed from adjoining owned
properties. Another adjacent property
could or would be adversely impacted by the
proposal. With respect to protecting the
interest of neighboring shareholders, the
adjacent cottages are of similar size,
larger, and similar setback from the
bulkhead. As a result of the proposed
renovation, there would be no change to the
preexisting 55 foot bulkhead setback and
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the overall degree of nonconformity. It
would be only changed minimally.
Specifically, the net result of granting
for the proposed renovation would be a
cottage standing approximately 3 feet
taller, which would come from the 2 feet of
the foundation and a foot higher from the
roof. Located at the same distance from
the bulkhead, but with a total floor area
of 677 square feet, rather than 657 square
feet. We're in a 20 foot increase in
footprint, it would be restricted to an
approximately to a 3 1/2 by 5 1/2 foot
out located more than 75 feet from the
bump
construction plans have been submitted to
and approved by the cooperative Board of
Directors and their architectural
committee. We had submitted with our
application originally, an e-mail that
was
wetlands. That again is the back.
Therefore the character of the neighborhood
would not be substantially changed, nor a
change in a way that would adversely effect
shareholders. In fact, as it is required
within the cooperative, the proposed
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sent by the Board. Vicki had sent me
something to provide something more
formally from Breezy Shores Community and
so here I hand up to you now, I think I
e-mailed it to Vicki, but here is a
hardcopy of the letter. (In Audible).
(Stepped away from the microphone.)
MR. HERRMANN: Both Breezy Shores
Community and committee approve of the
renovations. Mathematically the variance
requested requires approximately 20 feet or
26 percent setback relief from the
bulkhead. The only proposed footprint
expansion would be the 20 square foot size
of the bathroom, which exceeds the 75 foot
setback. And again, it's to fix and come
in compliance with New York State, which is
to basically make it a usable bathroom.
Otherwise, the cottage will remain the same
location as it has existed since the
1940's. None of it will result in any
substantial appearance or character of the
cottage. Any variance relief in this
community, in general, would not have an
impact on the physical and environmental
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conditions of the neighborhood for the
reasons described above with respect to
uniqueness and insulated location of the
project site. The relief would also not
have an adverse impact on the physical and
environmental conditions of the immediate
site or the larger subject of the property.
The location of the cottage with respect to
wetlands will remain unchanged. The
footprint will increase only minimally, by
3 percent, as a result of the 20 square
foot addition to the bathroom. And thus as
a result of the proposed renovation, a}
there will be no change in wetland setbacks
of the cottage, b) the structural footprint
of the cottage will only increase by 20
square feet, c) the presently lacking
drainage of leaders, gutters and drywells
will be added to the house to install and
and
capture roof runoff from the cottage,
d) the finished cottage will exceed the
FEMA base law flood elevation to provide
improve future protection against potential
flooding damage. The project has been
determined to be out of the jurisdiction,
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both for freshwater and the wetlands for
the New York State Environmental of
Conservation, a) because the titled
wetlands is separated by the pre-1977 storm
line bulkhead and it's 600 feet from
freshwater wetlands and other sides of the
property that are opposite of the water.
And finally speaking to the variance
standards, the need for relief is self
created pursuant to the argument that the
owner invested in the cottage with full
knowledge of the zoning code. That without
the proposed renovations, no relief would
be necessary; however, to the extent that,
a) any dwelling would ultimately and
unavoidably require some reconstruction
and/or structural alterations to allow for
reasonable improvements and modernization,
and b) that any accessory structural
alteration here, would be deemed to require
area variances. The relief of need is not
-- solely not self created but also by the
fact that the Zoning Code simply now
prohibits activities that were at one point
not prohibited. I am not going to go
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through this. We included a few addendums,
one relates to the construction process and
how the work would be done. The sequence
in how the work would be done. That
construction methodology has been designed
together between Mr. Fischetti as the
engineer and David Mullman as the
architect, and we're filing for the
records, so there is an enforceability as
what we're proposing to do. We have noted
as Addendum B, the approval process of
Breezy Shores and with that submitting of
that letter, we're hoping to ensure the
Board that the Breezy Shores Community is
in fact supporting the Mullman's in their
effort here. And then finally, an
addendum, that I am sure you are familiar
with, we have added some information from
the New York State Residential Code with
respect to fixture clearances and ceiling
height from the bathroom. So with that, I
will complete my presentation. I think
there are some folks here from the
community who might to say a word, if you
would give them a chance to do so. And
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the Board with any
I, or Joe or David
then return it back to
questions, that either
can help with.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
like to address the Board?
MS. ZARKA: Good afternoon. My name is
Helen Zarka, and I am on the Board of
Breezy Shores, and I just wanted to say
that we're in full agreement that the
Mullman's are doing. In fact, we're very
excited about the project because now a lot
Who else would
of the cottages are not
condition. And
are making are
exactly in fine
the improvements that they
improvements that would
benefit the community. Ail of the
shareholders are on Board with this
project. Mr. Herrmann has mentioned that
the Architectural Committee has approved
it. Our job, as a Board, would be to
monitor the Mullman's work and make sure
that everything is done that is approved by
you. We're going to keep on top of this and
make sure that they aren't any problems,
and we certainly don't expect to have
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Thank you.
any .
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MR. WILSON: Good afternoon. Donald
Wilson is my name. I am the president of
the Board this year. I would just like to
agree with everything that Helen has said.
I would like to say something too about the
size of the bathroom. Mine has a big sign
on there that says, "hard hat required." So
I can understand the reason to increase the
size both up and out. It's true, we have
been through a few unfortunate instances
and the Mullman's have done things
according to the code. We have been on top
of all of this. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Thank you. Anyone
else?
MS. PETSKY:
and I am on the
CHAIRPERSON
your name again?
MS. PETSKY: Mary
need me to spell?
Hi, I am Mary Beth Petsky
Board of Breezy Shores.
WEISMAN: Can you state
Beth Petsky. Do you
wanted
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Can you spell the
last name, please?
MS. PETSKY: P-E-T-S-K-Y. And I just
to say that we wholeheartedly
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support the Mullman's. They are not only
wonderful neighbors but they have been
forthcoming with all information with
regards to this project. So we fully
support them.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Thank you.
Anyone else?
(No Response.)
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Let's see if we
have any questions from the Board.
Ken?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yes. I guess this is
for the architect or for Rob, the expansion
for the bathroom is a result of compliance
to the New York State Building Code?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Would you please
just state your name?
MR. MULLMAN: David Mullman, architect.
Yes, the New York State Residential
Building Code. The diagrams that were
copied and are part of your application are
from that. And they're called out what the
numbers of the sections are.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay. No other
questions at this time.
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
MEMBER HORNING:
foundation? The new
George?
Can you describe the
foundation, are you
going to achieve putting it in place? And
it's going to be 2 feet higher out
ground, I believe that is what you
said? And my last question would be,
also state in here in your arguments,
it's going to be higher than what the
requirement is. You might have said 2
I am not sure. What is the FEMA
of the
all
you
that
FEMA
feet,
Code. The Building Department requires the
first floor elevation to be less than 8. In
looking at that format, there is a very
large portion that has a limit of moderate
requirement, and how much higher is it
going to be? Those are my questions.
MR. HERRMANN: George, we will give
the answers in the reverse order that you
asked for. FEMA is -- based on the format
that I printed out from FEMA's website,
there is a good portion of Breezy Shores
that is AE-6. So that based flood
elevation, plus the 2 feet, that is
required by New York State Residential
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wave energy, the "LiMWA line" as they call
it, on this property, which without getting
into a whole discussion about LiMWA, what
it does is basically, that there is going
to be the possibility of -- say a storm
event like Sandy, where the property is
going to get flooded over the bulkhead.
And what the Mullman's proposal has been
would be to bring the first floor elevation
to 10. So they would be exceeding by 2
feet, that the Building Department would
require by a minimum. The number that you
may have heard when I mentioned 3 feet, is
when I was talking about what the final
product would look like, that the top of
the building would be 3 feet than it is
now, in addition to raising the elevation
2 feet, and it's also to put an adequate
headroom at the top. The answer to your
question is 8, and the proposal is 10.
MEMBER HORNING: So the current
elevation is 8?
MR. MULLMAN: The current elevation is
8. To replace the foundation, which is in
poor condition at the moment. To replace
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it, unless we can demolish the house, which
I know we can't. The replacement that you
have to put steel underneath it and raise
the house. We just thought that it's
prudent after going through the trouble to
raise the house and build a new foundation,
to make it a little bit higher.
MEMBER HORNING: And what is the
material of the foundation?
MR. MULLMAN: Joe, do you want to tell
him?
MR. FISCHETTI: Just to clarify -- Joe
Fischetti, engineer. The limited wave
action actually changes an A Zone to a
V Zone. That is basically what it does. So
just to give you a background, that is
where you get the other 2 feet. So now if
you're actually in a V Zone, you want to
put the bottom 2 feet higher.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: (In Audible).
MR. FISCHETTI: It's not. I was
clarifying that the logic of the numbers
-- I just wanted to make sure. We don't do
that in the Town of Southold. The concrete
-- because it's in a A Zone, we're using a
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stem wall foundation, which is concrete.
Standard footing, concrete walls and some
reinforcing, and would add flood vents that
are required by FEMA code to allow flood
waters to go in and go back out of there.
MEMBER HORNING: So is it like a crawl
space in there?
MR. FISCHETTI: Yes.
MEMBER HORNING: How high?
MR. FISCHETTI: The crawl space can't
be any higher than the existing grade
because it would have to allow the water
go right back out. I don't have those
numbers on my mind.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Excuse me. I
want to make sure that we get you on the
record.
MR. FISCHETTI:
front of me.
just
I don't have it in
to
just
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Would you please
speak into the microphone.
MR. FISCHETTI: I know I worked this
out with David. The lowest point outside
on the grade is 5.7. So it's about 6. We
have a finished floor of 10 and then we
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have a foot after that and about 3 feet of
crawl space. Those numbers just happen to
work because we have to allow the water.
That it goes into the crawl space and back
out. The bottom of that crawl space has to
be no higher than that.
MEMBER HORNING: One
the building remain
Does
final question.
seasonally
occupied?
MR. MULLMAN: Yes. The building has
no heat. No one at Breezy has heat, it
will be insulated but it will remain
seasonal. Not for winter use.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Okay. Could you
or either Joe, describe for the record, you
will use the documented plans and a
detailed description of the what you have
proposed? The Board would be interested in
noting for the record, the existing
condition of the cottage and what impact
that will have it when you raise it to the
new elevation?
MR. FISCHETTI: The south area has
some conditions that need some improving,
the front side. A lot of the support
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posts, but that is the reason why we're
raising it. Generally, when they're lifted
they get supported inside. The lifting of
this structure will have no bearing on
anything that will damage the house. It
will not.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: The Board has,
you know, frequently looked at things
as
that were not supposed to be demolished and
there are no walls.
MR. HERRMANN: Just again, and I know
this has been stated, the walls in the
bathroom are in fact coming apart.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Yes. And the
proposal of a landward expansion of 20
feet.
Jim, questions?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Is there any way that
he cannot do the 20 square feet? In other
words, if you can fit that bathroom inside
the square footage?
MR. MULLMAN: When you look at the
plans, the rooms inside are fairly small.
Basically, it's 13 feet wide. The bedrooms
are 9 feet. The kitchen is like 10 and 11.
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So to take the bathroom and put it inside
the cottage, I think it would make the use
of the cottage much worse for us.
MEMBER DINIZIO: It's only a cottage?
MR. MULLMAN: It's only 600 square
feet. It's small.
MEMBER DINIZIO: It's only a cottage
and not a house.
MR. MULLMAN: Right, but we use it for
the summer. We use it for weekends.
Sometimes we spend a couple of weeks there.
And we like sitting in the living room. We
have a very small bedroom. I just think
that it's too small to put the bathroom
inside the cottage. It's already very,
very tight. I was fine with it when we
bought it. To put a bathroom inside of it,
I think that would be difficult for us.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You bought it and it
was there.
MR. MULLMAN: We did.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Maybe you can come
back with something and show me where that
is, why you can't just fit it inside the
house that exist?
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MR. MULLMAN: Anything could be done,
but I would object to that. It would take
away from our current use of the house.
MEMBER HORNING: Is the bathroom
outside of the house now?
MR. MULLMAN: Yes.
MEMBER HORNING: And is the new
bathroom going to be in the exact same
place?
MR. MULLMAN: Exactly where it is.
Instead of it being 5x5, it will be 5x8
essentially.
MEMBER DINIZIO:
The house is already,
according to the Notice of Disapproval,
it's not according to the code.
MR. MULLMAN: The house on one side of
my cottage, I have a three bedroom cottage.
A much bigger cottage. On the other side,
I have an identical cottage. So when the
cottages are between sizes, I am not asking
to make mine one of the grander cottages.
There are cottages that are much larger.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Actually, I have
a question for one of the Homeowner's
Association. If one of you can come to the
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microphone? Your Board has reviewed this
application, you have placed restrictions
on the property that limits or prohibits
expansion of the existing cottages? Is
that true?
MR. WILSON: Can you repeat that
again?
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: I will rephrase
it. According to the restrictions that are
imposed on all of your properties, limit
the expansion of the cottages --
MS. ZARKA: Those are our By-Laws.
It's in the Rules and Regulations. We
allow expansion.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN:
expansion?
MS. ZARKA: It doesn't. That would be
something that would be determined by the
Architectural Committee and the Board. It
just states that expansion will be allowed.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Ail right.
MS. ZARKA: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Any other
questions from the Board?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No questions.
Do they define
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CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Ken?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No questions.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Is there anyone
else in the audience that would like to
address this application?
(No Response. )
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Hearing no
further questions or comments, I will make
a motion to close this hearing and reserve
decision to a later date.
Is there a second?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: All in favor?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Aye.
MEMBER HORNING: Aye.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Aye.
CHAIRPERSON WEISMAN: Aye.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
(Whereupon, the February 7, 2013
Regular Meeting concluded.)
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CERTIFICATION
I, Jessica DiLallo, certify that the
foregoing transcript of tape recorded Public
Hearings was prepared using required electronic
transcription equipment and is a true and accurate
record of the Hearings.
Signature ~_~~~
Jessica DiLallo
Court Reporter
PO Box 984
Holbrook, New York 11741
Date: February 18, 2013