HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-07/18/2012 James F. King, President
Bob Ghosio, Jr., Vice-President
Dave Bergen
John Bredemeyer
Michael J. Domino
Town Hall Annex
54375 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone (631) 765-1892
Fax (631) 765-6641
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Minutes
Wednesday, July 18, 2012
6:00 PM
RECEIVED
JAN 2 2 2012
Present Were:
Jim King, President
Robert Ghosio, Vice-President
Dave Bergen, Trustee
John Bredemeyer, Trustee
Michael Domino, Trustee
Lauren Standish, Secretarial Assistant
Lori Hulse, Assistant Town Attorney
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 at 8:00 AM
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 at 6:00 PM
WORKSESSION: 5:30 PM
APPROVE MINUTES: Approve Minutes of June 20, 2012
TRUSTEE KING: Good evening, everyone, welcome to our July
meeting. Before we get going there are a few items I want to go
over. We have some postponements. On page four, number two
J.M.O. Environmental Consulting on behalf of FISHERS ISLAND YACHT CLUB
requests a Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit to install a sub-surface sewage
disposal system; existing leaching pool to be pumped out and filled with sand; new
1,500 gallon septic tank and a 500 gallon pump station tank to be installed; and new
tank and leaching field. Located: Central Ave., Fishers Island, has been postponed.
On page five, number ten, Patricia C. Moore, Esq., on behalf of SIMEON & ELLEN
WOOTEN requests a Wetland Permit to construct a covered walkway (wood or stone)
and provide a handicap access to the new front door. Located: Old Mallory Rd., Fishers
Island, has been postponed.
Board of Trustees 2 July 18, 2012
And on page six, actually page five and six, number 11, Docko, Inc., on behalf of HIRAM
MOODY, JR. requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' wide pile and timber pier and
install an 8'X 20' floating dock with hinged ramp and associated float restraint piles, boat
berthing tie-off piles, utilities and ladder. The overall length of the pier from the shore
waterward of the high tide line and tidal wetlands vegetation is 120'. Located: 33
Reservoir Rd., Fishers Island, has been postponed.
And number 12, Sheri Winter Clarry on behalf of VANSTON PARTNERS LLC requests
a Wetland Permit to replace the existing platform and stairs with new timber in same
location as existing; replace existing 3'X 20' fixed timber dock with new timbers in same
location as existing; proposed 3'X 10' long timber ramp; replace 10" pile with new in
same location as existing; proposed 6'X 20' floating dock to replace storm damaged
dock; and proposed 10" pile to replace storm damaged pile. Located: 5015 Vanston Rd.,
Cutchogue has been postponed. So we won't be addressing those tonight.
MS. MOORE: When do you think you are going on to Fishers Island?
TRUSTEE KING: August 8th or 9th.
MS. MOORE: Early, okay.
TRUSTEE KING: We have Wayne Galante here taking down what
everybody says. If you have any comments to make during the
public comment period, public hearings, please come up to the
microphone, identify yourself so he can get it on the record,
and please keep your comments limited to five minutes or less,
if you can. We have Jack McGreevey here from the Conservation
Advisory Council. The Conservation Advisory Council goes out and
ask many of the same inspections we do and gives us their input
and thoughts on the project.
Last but not least, this is going to be Lauren Standish's
last meeting with us. She will be moving up to the Supervisor's
office. I would just like to say, Lauren, I think it's 14 years
you have been with us. It's just been an absolute pleasure
working with you. You are a real asset, a big help to us, as
Trustees and to the Town. And I really value your friendship.
Ill be calling you now and then. You know the history. You know
who the good guys and bad guys are, so we'll stay in contact.
It's really a loss to our office. She's done a fabulous job for
us. So sad to see her go.
We'll set the next date for the next field inspection,
August 15, eight o'clock in the morning.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: We'll be going to Fishers Island also, I believe
the 8th or the 9th. We'll be doing field inspections there also.
But our regular field inspection here on the mainland will be
August 15 at eight o'clock in the morning.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: So moved.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: Next meeting August 22, at 6:00, with a
worksession at 5:30.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: So moved.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
Board of Trustees 3 July 18, 2012
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: Motion to approve the Minutes of June 20, 20127
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'll make a motion to approve the Minutes of
June 20, 2012.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
I. MONTHLY REPORT:
The Trustees monthly report for June 2012. A check for
$6,036.94 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund.
Ih PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for
review.
III. STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEWS:
RESOLVED that the Board of Trustees of the Town of Southold hereby finds that the
following applications more fully described in Section VII Public Hearings Section of the
Trustee agenda dated Wed., July 18, 2012, are classified as Type II Actions pursuant to
SEQRA Rules and Regulations, and are not subject to further review under SEQRA:
Barry Root - SCTM#86-6-20
William Turnbull - SCTM#52-1-1
Robert Sullivan - SCTM#104-13-8
Vincent & Carol Manago - SCTM#118-4-10
Paradise Point Association, Inc. - SCTM#81-1-16.10&16.11
Thomas & Mae Maud - SCTM#63-7-33
Lazarus Alexandrou - SCTM#33-1-11
Vanston Partners LLC - SCTM#111-14-3
Margaret P. Latham Trust - SCTM#32-1-9
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: So moved.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
IV. RESOLUTIONS-ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
TRUSTEE KING: Under Resolutions and Administrative Permits, in
an effort to move things along, if we find they are simple with
no controversy with them, no problems, we group them together.
So I would like to group together one, two, three, four, five,
six and seven together and make a motion to approve those. They
are listed as follows:
Number one, STEPHEN WALSH requests an Administrative Permit to install an 88'
linear feet stockade fence along the south property line. Located: 7065 New Suffolk Rd.,
New Suffolk.
Board of Trustees 4 July 18, 2012
Number two, NICK POLOGEORGIS requests an Administrative Permit to install a 3'
high picket fence along the retaining wall and side yards, and a flagpole with associated
lighting. Located: 22655 Soundview Ave., Southold
Number three, WARREN & SUSAN CANNON request an Administrative Permit to
install a 4" Palisade 6'X 8' panel fence along the west side of the property. Located:
4625 Aldrich Lane Ext., Mattituck.
Number four, MICHAEL DiLEO requests an Administrative Permit to install a split-rail
fence less than 48" with wire mesh screening to the rear of the property. Located: 100
Knoll Circle, East Marion.
Number five, MICHAEL R. WILSON requests an Administrative Permit to install a
generator system on the seaward side of the dwelling. Located: 590 Tarpon Dr.,
Southold.
Number six, Kinlin Rutherfurd Architects, PLLC on behalf of BARRON KIDD requests an
Administrative Permit to construct an addition to the existing dwelling; extend the
existing deck; construct new ramp to access the addition; and install a new sanitary
system. Located: 8732 Clay Point Rd., Fishers Island.
And number seven, John Bertani Builder, Inc. on behalf of PAUL RAGUSA requests an
Administrative Permit to construct a second story deck addition over existing I ¼ storyl
roof with access to deck from a door from the existing 2nd story master bedroom.
Located: 165 Wood Lane, Peconic.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: Number eight, this is VITO & DINA MOLES request an
Administrative Permit to install a post and rail fence on
the west side of the property no closer than 10' to the mean
high water line. Located: 4200 Kenny's Rd., Southold.
We went out there and inspected it. We have one infamous
fence in Mattituck that we have had nothing but a series of
problems with. It extends down to within ten feet of the high
water mark. This one here is a little different situation. We
went out and checked it out and we took a measurement. And what
we are going to allow is for this fence to extend 75 feet
seaward of the deck, so it does not go down to within ten feet
of the high water mark. It's shorter than that. But I think the
Board felt this kind of shows where the property is, where
people are actually going up on their deck, I guess.
MR. MOLES: Yes, I'm coming for that. I'm Dina Mole's husband.
That's great.
TRUSTEE KING: This is not a public hearing.
MR. MOLES: Sorry, I apologize.
TRUSTEE KING: That's okay. So I would make a motion to approve
the fence at 75 feet seaward of the corner of the deck.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. MOLES: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KING: Number nine, Meryl Kramer on behalf of DAVID
KORCHIN & JOAN RENTZ requests an Administrative Permit for the
as-built wood deck. Located: 2085 Bay Ave., East Marion.
This was found inconsistent. Probably it was found inconsistent
Board of Trustees 5 July 18, 2012
because it was built without a permit. Have you looked at it, Jay?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I did look at it. It was a very small
pre-existing deck. Um, yes, the deck was constructed without a
permit so that was the cause of the inconsistency.
TRUSTEE KING: Environmentally, it was okay?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Environmentally, it was okay. They are also
recommending a natural vegetated buffer incorporating existing
vegetation trees westward from the wetland to the picket fence
to preserve the existing vegetation. That is reasonable. There
is an existing picket fence that provides an orderly line that
would provide a reasonable amount of protection. So I would
think the recommendation of the LWRP coordinator would be
reasonable. So based on my field inspection, I did see the
fence there, I would make a motion to approve this application
subject to that it is now acquiring an as-built permit and that
there be, existing vegetation seaward of the existing picket
fence, that should be a non-disturbance zone, because it's
largely inhabited with freshwater wetland indicator plants, and
thereby addressing the inconsistency that was mentioned by the
Local Waterfront Revitalization coordinator. So I would approve
with those two conditions.
TRUSTEE KING: Do we have a second?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
V. APPLICATIONS FOR EXTENSIONS/TRANSFERS/ADMINISTRATIVE
AMENDMENTS:
TRUSTEE KING: Under Application for Extensions, Transfers and
Administrative Amendments, we do the same thing, if they are
simple and no problems, we try and group them together. So we
have number one and two on page two; three, four and five on
page three, and I would make a motion to approve.
MR. CACIQPPO: Excuse me, can I just say one thing about number
three? I know it's not a public hearing but I just discovered
with the Building Department today if we were to remove the deck
they would consider that structure an accessory structure and,
urn, it then would be in the side yard. So we would actually
like to leave the deck that we already had approved and we were
trying to, I guess make in a sense make the place more natural.
But they won't allow that. We would just like to do the gunite
and not remove the deck.
TRUSTEE KING: All right, we'll just pull three out for now. So
we'll approve one, two, four and five. They are listed as follows:
Number one, Chris Dindal on behalf of JAMES BAILEY requests a
One-Year Extension to Administrative Permit #7370A as issued on
August 18, 2010 and Amended on May 18, 2011. Located: Private
Rd., off East End Rd., Fishers Island.
Number two, Latham Sand & Gravel, Inc., on behalf of PAUL KEBER
requests the last One-Year Extension to Wetland Permit #7145 and
Board of Trustees 6 July 18, 2012
Coastal Erosion Permit #7145C, as issued on July 22, 2009 and
Amended on June 22,2011. Located: 14345-14349 Oregon Rd.,
Cutchogue.
Number four, Costello Marine Contracting Corp. on behalf of
JAMES LUHRS requests an Administrative Amendment to Wetland
Permit #7735 to allow the installation of a 1,850 pound manual
boatlift davit at the offshore end of the dock. Located: 1455
Bay Ave., Mattituck.
And number five, Costello Marine Contracting Corp., on behalf of
DAVID & lO,ANNA MOORE requests an Administrative Amendment to
Wetland Permit #7282 and Coastal Erosion Permit #7282C to
include the a 1500 pound capacity boat lift on the bulkhead.
Located: 21075 Soundview Ave., Southold.
Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: And we'll go back to number three and take another
look.
MR. CACIOPPO: Does that mean it's postponed or you can still
act on the gunite part of it?
TRUSTEE KING: You want to leave the deck?
MR. CACIOPPO: Yes, only because the Building Department said, I
called them today and said what do we have to submit, assuming
we get approved, and he said you can't remove the deck because
now it's an accessory structure. So we were going to try to
leave the deck, if possible. We already have an approval to have
the deck there as it is. It's only the gunite pool we would want to
include in this Administrative Permit. Or Administrative Amendment.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't think it's a huge issue.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It's not a huge issue environmentally. They
are essentially equal choices, submit revised plans for the
amount of deck or --
TRUSTEE KING: So we'll just do an administrative amendment to
replace the stone coping and grass around the pool and replace
existing vinyl pool with gunite.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: The administrative amendment is really, the
administrative amendment is just a change from the existing vinyl pool
to gunite pool. None of this other stuff even comes into play.
TRUSTEE KING: What about the stone coping and grass?
MR. CACIOPPO: The stone coping, that's already part of the
pool. That's part of the edge of the gunite pool.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: We have already given him a permit for all that.
This was to change it from a wood deck to grass and gunite pool.
Now he's eliminating the grass part of it and he's just keeping
it, he wants to make it gunite.
TRUSTEE KING: So this is Administrative Amendment to go from
vinyl pool to gunite pool.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Exactly. Right?
MR. CACIOPPO: It does have a stone coping, that's how gunite
pools are topped off. But the deck will be beyond that, will be
Board of Trustees 7 July 18, 2012
retained beyond that.
TRUSTEE KING: All right, I think we could approve that, so I'll
make a motion to appr.,ove this, and we need plans just showing a
pool replacement. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
VI. MOORINGS:
TRUSTEE KING: On page three under Moorings, we have six mooring
applications, they alt seem to be okay. We reviewed them all. I
would make a motion to approve those six. They are listed as follows:
Number one, JOAN TURTURRO requests a Mooring Permit in Narrow
River for a 13' boat, replacing Mooring CHB-30. Access: Public
Number two, JOHN LARSEN requests a Mooring Permit in East Creek
for a 35' boat, replacing Mooring ¢EC-10. Access: Private
Number three, EDGARD EL CHAAR requests a Mooring Permit in East
Creek for a 28' boat, replacing Mooring ¢EC-90. Access: Private
Number four PAUL A. REINCKENS requests a Mooring Permit in Town
Creek for a 27' boat, replacing Mooring ¢90-TC. Access: Private
Number five, MARK SCHAEFER requests a Mooring Permit in Town
Creek for a 17.5' boat, replacing Mooring ¢30-TC. Access: Private
And number six, SHEILA BAKER requests a Mooring Permit in East
Creek for an 8' boat, replacing Mooring ¢20-EC. Access: Public
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: So moved.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to go off regular hearings and
onto our Public Hearings section.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
VII. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
AMENDMENTS:
TRUSTEE KING: Number one, Land Use Ecological Services, Inc., on behalf of
WILLIAM TURNBULL requests an Amendment to Wetland Permit ¢7551 and Coastal
Erosion Permit ¢7551C to extend the west bulkhead return from 5' to 14' and modify the
platform with stairs from 5'X 7' to 10'X11'. Located: 54005 North Rd., Southotd.
This was found consistent with the LWRP for the bulkhead. The Conservation
Advisory Council resolved not to support the application based on recommendations of
the Board of Trustees and the violation of the Town Code. The CAC does not support
the application because Chapter 275 does not allow for new bulkheads and bulkhead
and a bulkhead would direct wave energy onto the town beach.
Is there anyone here to speak for or against this amendment?
MR. HALL: Yes, my name is Dan Hall, Land Use Ecological Services on behalf of
the Turnbull's This is a request to amend an existing permit for a bulkhead and
rock placement along the shoreline. What had happened is onsite conditions forced the
Board of Trustees 8 July 18, 2012
contractor to make some minor amendments, which we are here to
get final approval on with the Board. They include extending the
bulkhead return on the west end, to 14 feet because that's what
was required to meet the eroded scarp at the bulkhead, and the
platform was changed because the construction of the bulkhead,
there were pilings that were p~aced on center, urn, and the
stairs go straight down would hit a piling. So they put the
platform to jut it over so the stairs can go down. The stairs
are now offset from, originally they were, it was a linear set
of stairs going down to the platform, and then down to the beach
again. But since the placement of the piles obstructed the path
of the stairs, they had to amend the size of the platform to
accommodate the stairs to the beach.
TRUSTEE KING: Dan, I don't think the Board had any real problems
with the deck behind the bulkhead. What we did have a problem
with is the construction of the bulkhead, we feel it was not
built according to the original plans, and that's wh~.~u need a
longer return on the westerly side, westerly end. It appears
like it was built more like in a northwesterly direction and
they pushed that west end further than it should have been from
the toe of the bank. If it had been built correctly they only
would have needed a five-foot return, which was on the original
plans. That's our concern.
I would also like to see the DEC plans and approved plans
and any special conditions that were put on that permit so we
can compare it to ours. We are pretty unhappy with that bulkhead
construction. The construction itself, material wise, is good.
But I don't think it was built the way it was supposed to be built.
MR. HALL: As far as location?
TRUSTEE KING: Yes, particularly on that west end.
MR. HALL: Okay, the contractor is here tonight. He would like to
comment on this application.
TRUSTEE KING: You can actually see on this, in this aerial. The
original plans showed that bulkhead being parallel to the
bulkhead to the east. If that had been done so, the northwest
corner would have been tucked in closer and you would not need
this longer return that you need now.
MR. TROVITCH: Michael Trovitch, Shoreline Bulkheading. If we
came straight back and only five feet, the angle of repose on
the bluff would have come over and around it. So we had to
angle it a little bit just to save the land and to create the
vegetation. We also had to kick the bulkhead back a couple of
feet also, I'm not sure if you guys were aware of that, in the
permit. We were not able to keep the bulkhead line. We had to
actually shift it back three-and-a-half feet or so, and that
changed the angle of the bluff. It changed everything.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: What do you mean by kick it back?
MR. TROVlTCH: It doesn't follow the same line that was there.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: That what was there?
MR. TROVlTCH: The new bulkhead line. Our new bulkhead line is
behind the old bulkhead line. You guys made us come back a
Board of Trustees 9 July 18, 2012
couple of feet. So it just kind of changed, you know.
TRUSTEE KING: There was no bulkhead there.
MR. TROVITCH: The bulkhead line from the properly next door.
Our original thought was to go straight in line with that
neighboring bulkhead and just travel west with it.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: The original plans we have shows it as having a
four-foot return.
MR. TROVlTCH: On the west side?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Starting on the east side, the starling point
was four foot south of the bulkhead to the east.
MR. TROVITCH: Four feet back.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Correct. So your starting point seems to be okay.
TRUSTEE KING: There was no reason that bulkhead had to come out.
Not in my mind.
Have you gone to the DEC to modify the original permit?
What did you have from them?
MR. HALL: Yes, I put an amendment for the return and the platform.
TRUSTEE KING: Was it the same set of plans that you showed us
that you gave the DEC?
MR. HALL: Same set of plans that was submitted to the Board.
I think the bulkhead matches up on the east side, it's about four feet.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes, it does. We have pictures here that show, and
we have the original plans. That bulkhead was supposed to be
parallel with the bulkhead to the east. And it's not. As far as
I'm concerned it was improperly constructed according to the plans.
MR. TROVITCH: You are saying I went out seaward too much?
TRUSTEE KING: Yes. The corner out there is out further than
it's supposed to be.
MR. TROVITCH: I don't understand what you are saying.
TRUSTEE KING: The plans show this bulkhead right here. This
bulkhead was supposed to be parallel with that. It's not. You
can see it tips out at a slight angle. That's why you need the
longer return. If this had been straight out like that, you
would have been okay with the five-foot return.
MR. TROVITCH: We went on the flags, when the property was
flagged. That's our survey stakes. That's where we went to.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I think you might have a problem with the
surveyor.
MR. TURNBULL: William Turnbull, I'm the property owner.
Originally when we applied for the bulkheading because of the
storm damage, the plan was to tie into the neighbor's bulkhead,
because she is like two feet into my property with her
bulkheading. So it would have been natural to do it. For some
reason they wanted it back four feet. And I don't know why. Now,
but, I left it up to the professionals, because hopefully
everybody knows what they are doing. At the other end when they
were putting the bulkheading in, I have pictures of all of it,
but when they are putting it in, they lined up right at the toe
of the bluff on the western end of the bulkheading. That's where
the piling went in. Now, to bring it in at an angle closer to
the embankment, it would have meant we would have to excavate
Board of Trustees 10 July 18, 2012
part of the embankment. That didn't make any sense to me.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Nothing looks like the pictures we have. It was
all eroded at that point. In fact you had, I'm looking at the
picture, in order to do what you did, you had to bring fill in.
TRUSTEE KING: I would like to table this and review the DEC
plans and DEC special conditions and possibly even talk to DEC
about how they feel about this. I think that's the best way to
go. So I would make that motion to table this.
MR. HALL: You have the original DEC permit. I'm asking for an
amendment. It will be the same conditions. They won't give me a
new set of conditions. It will be amended to the plans, if they
approve it.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't see it in the files here.
MR. HALL: I have it. I could fax it over tomorrow. You can take
a look at it.
TRUSTEE KING: I11 make a motion to table this amendment.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. HALL: So just so we know, what are you looking for from us
besides the DEC permit, that we already have? Are you looking
for the amendment?
TRUSTEE KING: We want to see how they feel about how this was
built and if they are going to approve the longer return.
Because I'm sure they are going to have questions, too.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Have you applied to the DEC for the amendment?
MR. HALL: Yes, but the first time I'm hearing tonight is that
the bulkhead was built -- the paperwork I have from Mr. Turnbull
just mentions the return.
TRUSTEE KING: Mike Domino went out to do the final inspection on
it. When he came back to the office, he said I'm uncomfortable
with this because it doesn't look right. So I went out. And,
Mr. Turnbull, believe me, it's not your fault. And in my opinion
that bulkhead was built improperly on the western end. It was
out seaward more than it should have been.
MR. HALL: Okay, no problem. I was just not aware of that before
the meeting, that's all. Thank you:
WETLAND & COASTAL EROSION PERMITS:
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Under Wetland and Coastal Erosion Permits,
number one, Patricia C. Moore, Esq., on behalf of LAZARUS
ALEXANDROU requests a Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit
to construct circular stairs from 2nd floor deck; replace
back deck and extend 2', from 8' to 10'; install egress windows
to basement; replace windows and door, shingles and roof; and
install a front stoop, driveway with retaining walls and
landscaping. Located: 2700 Sound Dr., Greenport.
The Board did go out and looked at this. It was found
inconsistent under the LWRP because the action was conducted
without the benefit of a permit. The Conservation Advisory
Board of Trustees 11 July 18, 2012
Council resolved to support the application with the condition
of construction materials comply with town codes, ten-foot
non-turf buffer along the landward side of the bluff and
drainage plan for the dwelling. This was a situation where a
violation was issued for work done without a permit. And
question for counsel, has this violation been settled?
MS. HULSE: Yes.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Thank you. I have a couple of letters here to
read into the record. One is from an Elenora Kopec (sic) at 2700
Sound Drive. I apologize if I'm mispronouncing the name. I11
read this letter. This was received on July 18 by our office.
I come before you, the Southold Town Board of Trustees this
evening to tell you of a very serious concern. A very high price
was paid by those who live along the Long Island Sound not only
financially but as caretakers responsible for the protection of
the environment. It is not only hurricanes that bring harm to
our bluffs, but landslides from excessive rains can occur
without warning. Several years ago one summer after four
straight days of rain, everyone awoken to find that their slopes
and stairways had fallen down to the beach. This happened even
though there was no erosion on anyone's land. It was very costly
for everyone to repair and replace the destroyed area, but all
worked hard to protect our land and we constantly continue to do
our best to protect our fragile environment.
My bluff has been solid and without erosion. Unfortunately
that changed a few weeks ago with the building of my neighbor's
new stairway to the beach below. In doing so, the bluff has been
dug out several feet over my boundary line, creating a
potentially dangerous situation. No one has come to me to
acknowledge this grave error and now not only is my bluff
compromised but also my neighbor's. Where no erosion existed,
there is now a landslide waiting to happen. What will be done to
replace the foliage that was torn away to expose the soil. What
affects one eventually affects all. We are a country of laws
and everyone is responsible for obeying them. Building permits
are required not just to protect people but also the environment.
In closing I want to thank the Board of Trustees for the
consideration to the urgency of this concern. Sincerely, Elenora
Kopec. The address is 2800 Sound Drive in Greenport.
TRUSTEE KING: Is that to the east?
MS. MOORE: That's west.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Then I have a second letter from Elenora Kopec,
stamped received July 16, 2012. This is addressed to Patricia
Moore, copied to the Trustees. Dear Ms. Moore, I'm responding to
your letter dated July 9, 2012, not out of ill will but of
concern. In March I received a similar note requesting a permit
to build a stairway to the beach for Mr. Alexandrou. I'm
enclosing my reply to that note. As for reCeipt of your recent
letter all work seems to be completed with the exception of the
landscaping and outdoor circular stairway. The stairway to beach
is completed and a great deal of bluff has been exposed from the
Board of Trustees 12 July 18, 2012
beach to about 20 feet high and several feet across my property
line. Will the landscaping indicated in your letter include
returning the bluff to its original state? My late husband
planted many bushes and shrubs in order to preserve and protect
the environment. It's been disconcerting for me to see a wind
barrier taken away in addition to my privacy. I also want to
inform you a little more than two months ago, several neighbors
told me that Mr. Alexandrou said that I filed a report with the
town which caused a work stoppage at his home. I have been
wrongly held responsible and this allegation has caused me a
great deal of emotional stress in addition to questioning my
good reputation. I have been a resident in my home more than 40
years and have performed exemplary service to my community for
nearly as long a time. I did not file a report. I have spoken
to Mr. Alexandrou about this situation. In closing I want to
assure you I'll continue to remain a good neighbor since we all
and want deserve what is best for our community and I'm sure the
Trustees feel the same. Sincerely, Benora Kopec, 2800 Sound
Drive, Greenport.
The other letter we received is dated July 12, is stamped
received July 17, from Patricia Moore to the Board of Trustees.
Dear Pres. King and members. My client advises that Gary Fish,
Building Inspector, inspected his property this morning at the
Trustees' request to issue a stop work order for work allegedly
being done in the rear of his property. Gary Fish confirmed no
work had been done to the rear of his property. As you know, we
are scheduled for public hearing July 18, 2012, at which time I
hope this permit application will be approved so my client can
continue with his renovation of his home. Thank you, very truly
yours, Patricia Moore.
Now, we did go out to look at this property in June. June
13, to be exact. And then we went out to look at it on a recent
field inspection on July 11, 2012. The picture that is now on
the screen is the picture taken during the June inspection.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: And now that one there.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: And now the picture on the screen was taken in
July. So is there anybody here to speak to behalf of this application?
MS. MOORE: Yes. Patricia Moore on behalf of Mr. Alexandrou. He's
here tonight so that hopefully we can address all issues and he
can move ahead with the renovation of his house. Um, just for
the record, Mr. Alexandrou purchased the house in March of 2012.
As soon as he had received the permit for the beach stairs,
access to the beach stairs, um, his intentions, the house had
been significantly unkempt by the prior owners. They were
elderly. They had not put much money into the house. The
shingles were rotting and the roof needed repairs. The yard was,
urn, overgrown with landscaping that had never been cared for. So
Mr. Alexandrou should have checked with the Trustees as far as
the work that he had planned to do to make sure it did not need
a permit. But he learned the hard way, as many people that end
up in Justice Court, that he should have come and checked with
Board of Trustees 13 July 18, 2012
the town. So that was resolved. We resolved it through a
settlement, paid a fine and then, um, the goal was to continue
the process here.
As you can see from your own photographs, the house was
previously, it's an existing house, it's a post and beam house,
so structurally windows can pop in and out. Shingles were
replaced, I think they were asbestos shingles previously, and
there was a deck in the back, that same deck. The deck had, it
was not secure enough. It needed to be replaced. So he started
the construction and, you know, of course he needed the permit,
because the house, the entire house is within the hundred foot
jurisdiction. There is specific code with respect to normal
maintenance of structures, roofing, windows, shingling and
things like that. The deck, because he was, in his deck
replacement, he was going to put in copper, what are they
called, gutters. Copper gutters and leaders and really make it a
significant improvement, we stopped at that point when the town
put a stop work order, advised us, no, don't do anything more,
and the Trustees come back and let's make sure you have a permit
for everything you are doing. So that's what we ended up doing.
His wife is an avid gardener. The house as you can see from the
aerials, had lawn going to the top of the bluff. There was
vegetation on the sides. On the east side, I gave you
previously, but I'll provide for you, for the record here, the
neighbor is Mr. Lucasos (sic). He had asked Mr. Alexandrou if he
would please take care while the equipment was onsite, if he
would take care of removal of overgrown shrub that had been
infested by bees. There were rodents and small pets and so on
because of the condition of the house. So he took care of that.
On the west side where the neighbor is complaining, that
area had been overgrown and was unkempt, and his plan was to do
landscaping. The plan was for a landscaping to replace the
overgrown shrubs and any shrubs that were not native and drought
tolerant. Again, after that work was done, you see the remainder
of the property, which is the crabgrass, was removed, and the
shrubbery was removed in order to replace it with landscaping.
I have the letter from the neighbor, which when I brought
it over was questioned why it wasn't notarized. So I had it
notarized, to verify in fact that the neighbor had seen the
condition of the property, was very well aware of the property.
Since that time we have been in touch with David Chicanowicz --
are you conferencing or do you want me to wait?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'm listening. I'm with you.
MS. MOORE: As long as somebody is listening. Good. We retained
David Chicanowicz, who is a very skilled landscaper, and his
advice was make sure that we put a drywell on the west side of
the house in order to capture all roof, runoff and that will
enable him to put the drywell in while the construction work is
going on. And he's preparing a landscape plan that will come
back to you. We had already planned on a ten-foot buffer,
anticipating that the Board would want a buffer at the top of
Board of Trustees 14 July 18, 2012
the bank.
The bank is in fact sloped toward the road, so there is no
water runoff that is occurring by the roof or by the
improvements, since the property significantly slopes down and
all water runoff heads toward Sound Drive.
Nonetheless, the plan is to provide for a vegetative
buffer. The initial, as a starting point, the ten-foot
vegetative buffer to be plant with Dwarf Franklin Grass. But
there is more that he wants. His intention is to provide privacy
screening on both sides of his property, and I suggested let's
put it all into a landscape plan so that we don't have any
disagreements with the Trustees. We don't want to be slapped for
putting in landscaping without the Board's permission.
When you were there, you saw the deck -- excuse me, not the
deck. The stairs to the beach, um, where it was being
constructed, the contractor explained to you that because of the
angle and site conditions, there had to be some slight
modifications of the stairway in order to minimize disturbance
to the bluff and to minimize disturbance to the vegetation. You
can see on the east side, both sides, east and west side, they
tried to clear only that portion that they needed for the
stairs. I see the picture of the stairs, that's why I'm
addressing the stairs. The stairs permit also includes
revegetation. So part of the overall landscaping plan will be
to revegetate any of the disturbed areas that are associated
with the stairs. I'm also going to come in with an amendment for
the stairs because the steps that were designed originally were
going toward the east, and it didn't make sense. We would have
had to clear vegetation in order to have the stairs going toward
the east rather than have the steps go down straight to the back
of the property. So those are onsite conditions, modifications,
that the contractor has asked that we get the amendment. So
we'll come back with an amendment for that. And that's a simple
amendment for the beach stairs. Unless you want to include it
here. But I'm assuming you want it to come in as an amendment to
the stairs.
Um, let's see. That pretty much sets for[h what is going on
on this property. The deck, his construction, his piles, go
beyond the 50 feet, or go up to the 50 feet, the structure, and
my, in reviewing the plan and the history of this property, he
was not aware the Zoning Board had granted a variance along the
way, and the existing deck had been constructed under an
approved variance. So the issue right now and the debate is
going to be whether we go to the Zoning Board and ask for a
slight variance amendment to that variance or an additional
variance to allow an extra three feet to keep the piles where
they are and whether or not he's going to cut it back. Right now
the permit request is to cut back the deck to the 50 feet which
has been provided on the map. That is the setback that the
Zoning Board had used and when we prepared the survey we used
the same setbacks that the Zoning Board had applied when the
Board of Trustees 15 July 18, 2012
variances were granted. So you used your tape measure but we
used the surveyor's measurements, which is based on historic
surveys.
I think that's pretty much it. I think I have explained all
of the activity. Thank you, very much, also for allowing the
front of the house to continue, because the driveway needed to
be finished and there was a stoop, the entryway to the house,
had a roof over it, a little tiny portico roof, that had been
removed and the stairs were replaced because they were not in
very good condition. Again, that was all front yard stuff. So
the Board very kindly allowed him to continue so that at least
he could bring things into the house rather that than have the
mud and the disturbance of the front yard go beyond disturbing
this property owner but disturbing the neighbors.
Do you have any particular questions?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I don't have questions right now. I have several
comments that I'll make on behalf of the Board. I was waiting
for you to complete your presentation.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I have a question. What is your intention as
applicant for the Alexandrou's, as far as the Zoning Board of
Appeals? It's not particularly clear to me.
MS. MOORE: My suggestion was, so that he could finish the house,
is we'll close out the permit with what we are requesting,
cutting the deck back, and if he chooses and wants to proceed
with the Zoning Board and spend that kind of money to ask the
Zoning Board for a few feet, I11 go to the Zoning Board. If the
Zoning Board says yes, then I'll come and amend the permit with
you rather than delaying it or leaving it unresolved with the
Board. We'll just provide in the permit, once we get a building
permit, we obviously won't close out that permit until he's
decided close out your permit on the deck until he's decided
whether he's going to proceed with that extra foot-and-a-half on
the deck or not. So, if that's acceptable. That will enable him
to finish --
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Let me go over some comments now. This was a
project, again, that we had gone out to, based upon a violation.
As you alluded to, there was a stop work order to any exterior
work. We had granted permission for work to continue, as you
alluded to, on the front of the house. Work continued on the
back of the house, the stoop going down from the sliding glass
door, when this picture was done, the siding was done, you see a
railing up there on the top of the deck that was done after the
stop work order.
As far as the deck goes, this was originally, I believe an
eight-foot deck. The applicant, without permission, extended it
to 16 feet and is now found, because of the Zoning Board ruling
of a 50-foot setback, that that deck actually has to get cut
back to a total of ten foot.
MS. MOORE: Right.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So, what happened was an eight-foot deck became
a 16-foot deck. We are now faced with having to bring that deck
Board of Trustees 16 July 18, 2012
back to ten feet to comply with the Zoning Board.
MS. MOORE: Correct.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: There was also clearance done on the property. I
don't know if that was part of the violation or not. But during
that clearance, what we observed out there in the field last
month when we were out there, in other words the June
inspection, was also of concern to us, and that was the
northeast side of the property, the elevation now, has, it looks
like has been modified at that time in June you could see where
there was very little growth there, and now there is an issue of
runoff to the property next door. A potential issue of runoff to
the property next door. So I want to remind the applicant under
the requirements of 236 that all water must be retained on their
property. And as you can see on this picture that is now on the
screen, from the June inspection, you can see up there
at the top of the property where we are concerned about a
runoff issue.
As far as the stairs to the beach go, our recommendation is
an amendment be filed with, regarding the stairs to the beach,
so we can address what we found out there, that the stairs were
not constructed, the top of the stairs, the top catwalk or
landing of the stairs, was not constructed according to the
approved plan. So I would suggest in your amendment on the
stairs, you address that.
MS. MOORE: They actually cut it back. That was, the contractor,
the way it was constructed, I mean, he can explain it. But it
was, where the stair begins and ends is the issue.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That can be addressed in the amendment for the
stairs.
MS. MOORE: That's fine.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I have read into the record the letters from the
one neighbor, so I'll also read into the record the letter that
you just handed me tonight, which is dated June 20, 2012. And
again, I apologize if I mispronounce the name. Vasilos Lucatos
(sic). I reside at 2600 Sound Drive in Greenport for the past 30
years. My house is located on the east side of 2700 Sound Drive
in Greenport. I'm very familiar with the bluff and vegetation,
both my backyard and my neighbor's. I know Mr. Alexandrou has
not disturbed the soil on the bluff. He removed two shrubs that
border our house because they contained beehives. Which are a
hazard. I'm happy Mr. Alexandrou is renovating his house and
property. The previous owner neglected both for the past 20
years. Sincerely Vasilos Lucatos. Again, I apologize for
mispronouncing that.
So for us, this property, we are very concerned about this
property; because of the amount of work that was done without a
permit; because of the work continuing after a stop work order;
because now a clearing that happened that potentially is going
to result in an erosion issue; and also because this deck, which
should have been eight foot, was extended to 16. And now your
request is bringing it back to ten to comply with ZBA.
Board of Trustees 17 July 18, 2012
So with that, those are the issues the Trustees had. We'll
address, just so you know, for the stairs, there is CCA material
used to the platforms and those will have to be addressed also.
That's with the stairs to the beach I'm talking about now, and
the platforms associated with the stairs to the beach. Just to
be very specific about it. I didn't want to confuse it with the
deck or something else.
MS. MOORE: Ill have to get the contractor. I don't know about
the stairs.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So those are the issues that we have.
MS. MOORE: So to address some of the things that you raised. The
clearing of the vegetation for purposes, was intended for
landscaping. It was stopped at the time right before it was done
in early June in order to prepare for all the planting, and
because the Trustees said, stop, he stopped everything and
couldn't vegetate what, you know, to address any kind of runoff
issues. So the goal here is going to be to keep all runoff from,
really we are talking about runoff to the sides of the property.
Because, as I said, the slope is toward the street. Mr.
Chicanowicz can provide you with testimony when we come in with
a landscape plan that it is very clear he did not bring either .
soil on to the bluff or do anything, any land disturbance to the
bluff. And you can tell by Mr., where Mr. King is standing, I
think that's him, standing over there, just to the west of him
is a mature vegetation, and if soil had been pushed over, you
would not have seen that or it would have been covering those
roots. So you can tell there was no soil pushing. It was,
again, all part of the process of getting the property ready to
plant. You are not going to plant on top of really inappropriate
vegetation. That's all part of the process of landscaping.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I can tell you, respectively, I stood out at
that corner, I respectively disagree with you. That elevation
had been changed, from my personal observation, material had
been moved. Whether it was material that was on the property had
been pushed around or brought in, or whatever, I don't know.
But it had changed. The landscape had changed. And it appears
as though the elevation has changed. So I know we'll want a
revegetation plan with the landscape plan.
MS. MOORE: That's fine. We actually want to do that.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Thank you, I appreciate that. But we'll need
that. So if you want to move on to some of the other issues, you
certainly can.
MS. MOORE: There was confusion as far as what work was done. The
re-shingling and reroofing, there was the directive, don't, you
know, stop. The Building Department had a stop. But it was
recognized that re-shingling and reroofing is an ordinary
maintenance issue that does not require Trustees' permit,
doesn't require Building Department permit. So we actually came
in, got a building permit for interior work. The stoop had
already been done by the time I was involved, which is when you
issued the stop work order. So that's, see the stoop there.
Board of Trustees 18 July 18, 2012
That's the same stoop. So, Mr. Alexandrou has young children.
The second floor, the deck is ready, it has not been finished.
In order to protect from having anybody fall off of the roof, he
put up the railings. But they're not permanent, as you can see.
They are just temporary, to prevent anybody from accidently
falling off the second floor. And, you know, that's what code
enforcement, that's why a violation was issued, and we paid the
violation, he learned his lesson, but our goal here is to, you
know, keep this project going. People, you know, I understand
the Board's punishment, but once the Justice Court matter is
over, we hope that, you know, people will be given a fair shot
to renovate their house. We are not talking any environmental
issues here. We are actually improving the existing house,
making it conform to the state building code, conform to energy
standards, conform to the hurricane standards, and he's putting
in copper drywells, and we want to put in -- excuse me, copper
gutters, pardon me, and we want to put in a drywell. So we are
in the process of trying to make this conform. This would alt be
a finished project had this been done a different way. And he is
at fault for that. But here we are several months later and we
would like to move this along.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: A couple comments, then I want to move on with
this. First off, environmentally, this has changed. The work
that has been done here on this property has impacted the
environment. I have already addressed the vegetation issue. A
deck has been increased in size here, so there will be
additional drainage issues associated with the deck that doubled
in size, potentially, from eight to 16. Whether or not it ends
up at 16, that's a ZBA issue. This Board, you know, we have to
go with the original ZBA issue of ten foot.
I also respectively take exception to you saying that the
Board of Trustees punished your client. Your client did work
without a permit. The Town of Southold issued a violation. And
through the justice system there was a decision made that took
care of that violation. There was not punishment rendered by
this Board of Trustees. So I would ask that you please think
carefully about that, because we do take exception when that is
said to us.
MS. MQORE: I don't want to see him punished at this point
through the permitting process when he's already been punished
through the criminal court.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That's a very good way of putting it. That's
very different from saying the Trustees punished him.
MS. MOORE: I apologize. I short cut the conversation.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Okay, thank you. So with that, comments from the
Board?
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I would like to make a comment. This is the
second application this evening in which a defense was molded
around that if contractor decided what was a slight
modification. And, um, I'm not aware of, I think the mission of
this, our mission, seriously, I think modifications are our
Board of Trustees 19 July 18, 2012
domain, not in the contractor's domain.
MS. HULSE: Could I add, as this is applied for, the Trustees are
unable to approve an application that is requesting an extension
from eight to ten when the deck is actually 16. You can't
approve this as it is drafted.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes, thank you.
MS. MOORE: Yes, we are actually asking that it be cut back.
That's the reason, I didn't want to cut back a deck because you
would say it's a violation if we cut something back. So I'm
actually asking to cut the deck, this deck back to ten foot.
MS. HULSE: Not according to your application. It says extend to
two feet from eight foot to ten foot.
MS. MOORE: Oh, because -- it's not consistent. On the east side
it's actually another two feet. So that would be an extension.
This portion is the cut back. And you can see from the survey,
the survey actually identifies it clearer. It shows --
MS. HULSE: That's not part of your application. Unless I'm
missing it, I don't see anything about cutting back the deck
from 16 feet to 10 feet. Where is that in the language of the
application?
MS. MOORE: Well, I say cut the deck back to ten feet. I know
it's in there.
MS. HULSE: It's not before this Board as part of this proposed
resolution tonight, so I mean at this juncture --
MS. MOORE: I'll look in my papers but our goal here is cut the
deck back.
MS. HULSE: I understand what you are testifying to, but what
reading here and part of what they're considering tonight is
just the extension from eight foot to ten foot. This Board can't
approve something that's out there at 16 feet, at this juncture.
They can't do that.
MS. MOORE: I understand that. I'm not asking for that approval.
I'm asking for an approval of ten feet. He'll have to cut it
back to ten feet.
MS. HULSE: That's not what you applied for.
MS. MOORE: It is what I applied for.
MS. HULSE: Look at what is on the agenda, Pat.
.MS. MOORE: I don't know how you guys wrote it, ~ have to look at
how my application -- sometimes the way it's written doesn't
necessarily match.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: If I could provide clarification. I have the
application here stamp dated June 20, 2012. The project
description: Circular stairs, et cetera, replace back deck,
extend deck two feet from eight foot to ten foot.
MS. MOORE: West part of deck.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Correct, west part of deck. To maintain a
50-foot setback.
MS. MOORE: So we have to maintain a 50-foot setback.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Okay, so, again, in our opinion, what you have
done, you have taken an eight foot deck, it's now become a
16-foot deck, and it's now being requested to be cut back to ten
Board of Trustees 20 July 18, 2012
foot to comply with ZBA.
MS. HULSE: That was not part of the application.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: And that is not part of the application, no.
MS. MOORE: If you are just trying -~ you know, I think it speaks
for itself, particularly with the survey. Um, you have in fact
identified what the size of the deck is. I can't ask this Board
to give me a deck that the Zoning Board has not approved. So
I'm not asking for a 16-foot deck. I don't know how, I mean,
that's just semantics. How would you like me to say it?
MS. HULSE: No, it's not. Because this is the way it was noticed.
This is the way the LWRP coordinator reviewed it. It's your
responsibility to apply for it the way you want this Board to
review it and the LWRP coordinator and have it noticed. And
that's not the way it was done here.
TRUSTEE KING: I think it should have been an application to cut
an as-built 16-foot deck back to ten feet. That's how that
should have been applied. It's an as-built 16 foot to be cut
back to ten. That's how it should have been applied for.
MS. MOORE: I was only at the Board three times and I asked for
multiple requests, guys, some of this work is not, it's standard
work that doesn't require a permit. The deck was already an
existing deck. And you are right, the eight foot deck was
grandfathered and could stay. But the addition of that deck was,
would have only been permitted to go out a certain way. You
know, excuse me for not making it clear but I think the Board
understands what it is that we are doing, and the plans, the
survey was provided to all the neighbors so that it's real clear
what we are trying to do.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: At this point, I think both points have been
made and I think the Board's concern -- I don't think, I feel
the Board's concern is from a legal perspective that we make
sure the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed here and the
language in the application is correct. So I want to first see
if there is anybody else in the audience who wanted to speak for
or against this application.
(No response).
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I don't see anybody else. Recommendations from
the Board?
TRUSTEE KING: I think it should be changed, for starters.
MS. MOORE: How would you like me to -- sorry, I can't hear.
TRUSTEE KING: We can table it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: My recommendation at this point then is to table
this application to give you have a chance to amend your
language in your application to correctly reflect exactly what
has to be done with this deck.
MS. MOORE: Here is another alternative. Which is take the deck
out of the application. I'm coming back anyway for the
landscaping. By then we'll have, I'll know what Mr. Alexandrou
wants to do on the deck. In the meantime, we get everything else
that is -- we are trying to finish, the windows, the, you know,
the railings on the stoop in the back. I mean it's really
Board of Trustees 21 July 18, 2012
straightforward stuff, and he's prepared to start some
landscaping, but if you want a full landscape plan Ill be back
next month with the landscape plan. Either way. And then we can
talk about the deck. I just don't want the rest of the project
held up over a deck that, you know, we are actually trying to
make the deck comply. So however that gets accomplished, whether
it's by cutting it or, that's really the only common sense thing
to do is to cut it back.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'm very concerned about repeat segmentation
of projects.
MS. MOORE: This is a Type II action that has no segmentation
issues. SEQRA deals with segmentation, so.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I appreciate your option you provided us. Thank
you. I'm going to recommend to the Board that we table this
application at this time to give the applicant the opportunity
to adjust the wording in her application to include a landscape
and vegetation plan and to come back before us. So that's my
motion. Sorry, I apologize. I withdraw that motion.
At this point I'll make a motion to -- well, no, I don't
have to close the public hearing, I can just table it. So I'll
reissue my motion, is to table this application to give the
applicant the opportunity to address the wording in the
application to correctly reflect what is being done with the
deck and the opportunity to come in with a landscape plan to
include revegetation for the yard. That's my motion.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Do we wish to include the amendment to the
stairs at the same time?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That can be done as a separate application, an
amendment to that permit that was already granted.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I have some of my concerns here about
splitting it up.
MS. HULSE: There is already a separate permit.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So I have a motion to the floor.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Ill second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. BOSSEN: Dave, can we address the drainage problem at this
time with a simple application of hay bales? Because judging
from what I see, you still have a drainage problem.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Thank you, but the application has been tabled
at this time pending work to be done.
MS. MOORE: Okay, thank you.
WETLAND PERMITS
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The next application is number one, under Wetland Permits,
En-Consultants on behalf of WILLIAM MURPHY & KIMBERLY REECE requests a
Wetland Permit to remove and replace (within footprint and approx. 1' higher) existing
one-story portion and two-story dwelling in place); install a drainage system of roof
drywells, leaders and gutters; construct a 14'X 24' screened porch in place of and within
footprint of existing deck and a 15' X 26' on-grade masonry terrace in place of existing
Board of Trustees 22 July 18, 2012
10'X 22' brick terrace; construct various on-grade stone/masonry walkways in place of
and/or in addition to existing walkways; replace existing timber steps to dock path and
construct new timber steps; construct new stoop in place of existing stoop; remove
existing driveway and install new pervious gravel driveway; construct 18'X 38' swimming
pool, 7'X 7' spa and 480 square foot on-grade masonry pool patio; install pool fencing,
pool equipment, pool drywell, and plantings to screen pool; maintain approx. 9,448
square foot area of natural vegetation adjacent to wetlands as non-disturbance buffer;
and establish approx. 3,440 square foot area adjacent to non-disturbance buffer as
variable width non-turf buffer. Located: 1652 Bridge Lane, Cutchogue.
The application has been deemed consistent with the town's
LWRP, with two comments relating to the project plans. One is
that it was recommended that the limits of the non-disturbance
buffers and non-turf buffers be clearly marked on the plans. The
ledger doesn't differentiate between the two and in the field.
So this might be a point to discuss in the context of the plans,
from the LWRP. And it was it was suggested that native
drought-tolerant plants might be used for the pool screening.
With respect to previously, the Board had the application and
noted a violation that was issued in the field. I'm wondering if
we have a status on that.
MS. HULSE: It was resolved.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, so that is a non-issue. The
Conservation Advisory Council on their initial inspection didn't
see staking, and there was a, they did not support the
application because they didn't, they were not aware of a
drainage proposed for the pool or dwelling, but in fact the
stamped plans that came into the Trustee office do have on the
legend, they have pool drywell they have RDW, which stands for
the roof drywell, which was issued there. The plans actually
clearly show there is the required drainage. I think that
attends to most of the housekeeping issues to get the hearing
going. Anyhow, is there anyone here who wishes to speak on
behalf of the application?
MR. HERMAN: Yes, Rob Herman of Eh-Consultants, on behalf of the
applicants Klm Reece and Bill Murphy, who are both here. Stacy
Bates is the landscape architect is here if you have any
questions. There were a couple of questions raised by the LWRP,
one of which I can respond to and the other Stacy can respond to.
There is actually a differentiation that the hatching is
the same. I'm sure Stacy would be happy to differentiate the
hatching but there is sort of a cloud line or, for lack of a
more sophisticated term, a squiggly line that runs through the
hatching. And what is on the wetland side of that squiggly
line is intended to demarcate the currently existing, naturally
existing vegetation adjacent to the wetlands, and any additional
hatching that comes on the landward side of that closer to the
house would be the non-turf buffer. So we are just trying to --
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: So what you are saying, that cloud line
which I think is the limit --
MR. HERMAN: That's the clearing line, existing clearing line.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Existing clearing line, that provides the
Board of Trustees 23 July 18, 2012
clarification. Looking at the plans, I was presuming that. But
I assume the question the LWRP had, that clarifies that. So you
are looking at anything waterward or seaward of the cloud line
will remains as existing, non-disturbance, native vegetation.
MR. HERMAN: Correct.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: And that the landward portion of that cloud
line would be the new proposed non-turf buffer.
MR. HERMAN: Correct. And what Stacy has done on the plans is if
you sort of start on the north side of the house where there is
the proposed porch in place of the existing open deck, she has
set measured offsets to the nearest points of the proposed
non-turf buffer. So starting at the northeast corner, that
ten-foot setback, then a 31-foot setback, still going
counterclockwise, 15 foot, and she has those set around the
whole plan. We went through this on a similar variable width
buffer, I think it was DeLaVega (sic), where that's how we set
up the plans, so that if the Board went out for compliance
purposes you can physically stand there with a simple tape and
run off each corner to the edge of the non-turf buffer. So I'm
not sure if Mark picked that up in his review, but we did
anticipate your requesting that and we did include those
offsets.
That's the violation that was resolved, what is on the
screen there. Lori, I mean I assume the Board is aware, but that
fill was removed so the grade level pathway that was there
previously, from the previous owner, is what is back on the
ground now. I mean there is, just quickly, I mean, I guess the
Board will let me know, I could go through a brief presentation
of the proposed construction and mitigation or I could bypass
that and you can let me know if you have any specific questions
pertaining to the design. I mean, there is really a few
elements, is basically the reconstruction and raising of that
one-story portion of the house, replacing the terrace in back of
it, enclosure of the deck as a porch, and the addition of the
pool and patio. And as mitigation, there is drainage shown, as
John mentioned. There is the establishment of a non-disturbance
buffer with and a non-turf buffer. The area of the non-turf
buffer actually exceeds by about 50% the area of the new ground
coverage, and most of the new ground coverage is all on-grade
stepping stones, walkways, patios, because the footprint of the
house has not actually increased. And of course there will be
additional plantings proposed outside the buffer area just to
screen the pool because it's in that location as you kind of
come in off the roadway.
There is one issue I wanted to raise, which is that on the
back side of the house where we show the proposed masonry
terrace in place of the existing brick terrace, what we figured
out since the time we submitted this, was that because we ar~
raising the dwelling, that section of the dwelling, that the
patio will have to come up about 12 inches with it. So Stacy can
explain this, if necessary. She has revised plans to submit
Board of Trustees 24 July 18, 2012
tonight, assuming the Board doesn't have an issue with it. But
basically that patio would be raised along with the elevation of
the house, which necessitates inserting a couple of steps into
it, so that patio would increase by about 18-square feet from
what is on the plan in front of you tonight.
It doesn't make a big difference to this Board, but just
under zoning code it changes the lot coverage as defined by
code. Because a raised patio counts. On grade doesn't. But we
are still well under the 20% at less than 17. So that, it
shouldn't present an issue, but again, I can hand that up to
you. Apparently it doesn't change the wetland setback. It just
causes us to sort of push out a step in this corner here. So if
you just compare it to that step is what we are talking about.
So if the Board were inclined to approve the site plan, we would
ask you to substitute that one just to reflect the fact it will
be a raised patio in the back. As defined by code.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I don't think the Board had any issues with
the proposed house construction, and the wetland issue has been
clarified. I don't know how the Board feels about the amendment.
Is there anyone else here who wishes to speak to the
application? Any Board members have any specific things to add
or questions?
(No response).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, I'll make a motion to close the
hearing in this matter.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I would make a motion to approve the
application as submitted with the amendment to the patio. Do we
need additional copies or any other noticing on that? Anything
else we need on that?
(No response).
I would move to approve subject to the application as submitted
and the clarifications that were presented that answer the
questions of the LWRP.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: t'll second that motion.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. HERMAN: Thank you.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number two, En-Consultants on behalf of MARGARET
P. LATHAM TRUST requests a Wetland Permit to construct approx.
152 linear feet of vinyl bulkhead and +/-7' easterly return in
place of (and 6" higher than) existing concrete seawall and
return; construct +/-8' westerly vinyl return; and backfill with
approx. 15 cubic yards clean sand to be trucked in from an
upland source. Located: 2425 Peters Neck Rd., Orient.
The LWRP coordinator found this to be consistent provided
that following best management practice clarify that the
backfilled area will be re-planted with indigenous vegetation.
The Conservation Advisory Council voted to support this
Board of Trustees 25 July 18, 2012
application. They noted that, they are suggesting 15-foot,
non-turf buffer, and recommend that the bulkhead is bumped
out -- no definition of what "bumped out" means -- to minimize
the disturbance to the wetlands. Is there anyone here to speak
to this application?
MR. HERMAN: Yes, Rob Herman of En-Consultants on behalf of the
applicant. Basically what we are trying to do is just a very
simple inplace replacement of the existing concrete seawall. On
the west side of the property we are proposing a little angled
return. That is where the flooding on that corner is most
intense on the property, which is why that whole section of the
wall over there is the most damaged. So the outer few feet of
that wall will be abandoned, while the inner few feet will be
reconstructed and then protected with that little angled return
upland of the high marsh. We are proposing to raise the wall
about a half foot just to provide a little bit of protection
against flooding during higher high tides. There is not a heck
of a lot of yard on that side between the wall and the house, so
I think we would anticipate a ten-foot non-turf buffer, if that
was acceptable to the Board, and hashmark out the area that is
anticipated to be disturbed on the plan.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Rob, I was remiss in not mentioning that the
Trustees in their visitation suggested a five-foot non-turf buffer.
MR. HERMAN: Okay, well, I'm sure the applicant would be happy to
stick with the five.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Is there anyone else here who wishes to speak to
this application?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Jack, I know the Conservation Advisory Council
had comments.
MR. MCGREEVEY: I didn't personally inspect it but it was
recommended by the observations of the people who made the
inspection, is it allowable to do a bump out, for their concerns.
MR. HERMAN: I don't know what that means.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: In other words, to place a new structure in
place of that concrete structure so as not to take out the
concrete structure or disturb --
MR. MCGREEVEY: That's what I understand. To do a bump out, with
limitations.
MR. HERMAN: I don't know if we want to do that. The marsh goes
right up against the wall. The DEC, I mean, not including you,
would also object to that.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Do you understand what we are saying, Jack?
MR. MCGREEVEY: I understand that. I'm just reiterating what was
recommended.
MR. HERMAN: My guess, Mike, is that wall is probably reaching a
point in which there won't be a whole lot of extreme effort to
get it out. It's taking itself out.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Demolition will be fairly easy.
MR. HERMAN: Yes, it's self demolishing at the moment.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Any other comments from the Board?
(No response).
Board of Trustees 26 July 18, 2012
I'll make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll make a motion we approve this application
with the condition that we satisfy the concerns of the LWRP
concerning the native plantings, and to include a five-foot,
non-turf buffer.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. HERMAN: Thank you.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Number three, En-Consultants on behalf of
PARADISE POINT ASSOCIATION, INC., requests a Wetland Permit to
resheath landward side of approx. 197 linear feet of existing
timber bulkhead (forming filled jetty) with vinyl sheathing and
backfill inside of jetty with approx. 150 cubic yards of sand
and gravel; construct approx. 72 linear feet of vinyl bulkhead
in place of existing timber bulkhead and backfill with approx.
15 cubic yards of sand; and place 10-20 pound stones on grade in
10'X 10' X 10' triangular area landward of bulkhead to form
stone return at most southerly end of reconstructed bulkhead.
Located: 4800 Paradise Point Rd., Southold.
The whole Board was out to see this, this past week. The
Conservation Advisory Council has resolved to suppod the
application as it was submitted. The LWRP coordinator has deemed
this to be consistent with LWRP. And as I recall, on our visit,
we had one thought or one change in mind. That really was to
move or tip in that small return so that you won't have to put
any stone in there at all.
MR. HERMAN: You mean all the way at the southerly end?
TRUSTEE KING: Yes, where the bulkhead comes straight in, Rob.
If that was tipped in at like a 45 degree angle, it would clean
the whole thing right up.
MR. HERMAN: Ironically, that stone was your idea five years ago.
TRUSTEE KING: Wasn't my idea.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: He takes it back.
MR. HERMAN: Yes, I mean this actually, it really is a proposed
rebirth of an application, I should say, of a permit that was
approved by the Board back in 2005. But the association, as I'm
sure the Board is aware, was invested in other matters. So they
are now turning their attention to this. I do, kidding aside,
think that the stone had turned out to be a bi-product of some
sort of comment from the Board at that time, and it was added.
It didn't seem like a bad idea to me because once you get to
that, if you can zone in on it a little bit, because once you
get to that back side, instead of building a bulkhead return
back, you are kind of just creating a little wave break with the
stone. So I'm not sure I would second guess the idea, honestly,
because I thought it was actually a clever way to do it and a
natural way to do it as opposed to running a vertical face
Board of Trustees 27 July 18, 2012
return back through there. So, I mean, we are not married to one
way or the other but I think the way you approved it the first
time, I would just stick with it. It makes sense to me.
TRUSTEE KING: In my mind that dead ends and there is a lot of
wash out behind that, at the south end of that bulkhead. Because
if you went back to the third pile and took that in --
MR. HERMAN: You are talking about coming in like that (indicating).
TRUSTEE KING: Right. Take that in on a 45 degree angle, that
would button it right up against the toe.
MR. HERMAN: I mean, to me it's almost six of one, half a dozen
of another.
TRUSTEE KING: Sticking out in midair it serves no purpose.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: It may actually cause more damage the way it is.
MR. HERMAN: Yes, and do that in lieu of the stone. Sure. If you
are inclined to approve it that way, we could get you revised plans.
TRUSTEE KING: I think it would make a better job of it.
MR. HERMAN: Sounds good to me.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: I think what it does, it takes it and tucks it
in a little closer to that hill, which if I had to guess, is all dredge spoil.
MR. HERMAN: Sure. Absolutely. Okay. Sold
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Aside from that I think it was a pretty
straightforward project. Any comments or questions from the
Board?
(No response).
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Any other questions or comments from the
gallery?
(No response).
if not, I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with the only change being that that last 24 feet, roughly, of
the bulkhead --
MR. HERMAN: I don't think it's going to be that much, Bob.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Is it six feet between poles?
MR. HERMAN: Probably. It looks to be to be tighter there. I'm
going to guess like 12, 15 feet. I mean the smart thing to do
would be for us to go out and establish the number. So if you
want to give us a reasonable range.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: We'll just figure out the scaling.
TRUSTEE KING: About 12 feet.
MR. HERMAN: I would say 12 feet.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: So the only change there would be take that last
12 feet, bring it in, tip it in on a 45 degree angle and
eliminate the use of stone. Aside from that we would keep the
application the same.
MR. HERMAN: Okay. We'll give you revised plans.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Do we have a second?
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
Board of Trustees 28 July 18, 2012
(ALL AYES).
MR. HERMAN: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KING: Mark K. Schwartz, Architect on behalf of ROBERT
SULLIVAN requests a Wetland Permit to construct a screened porch
over part of the existing rear deck and not expanding the lot
coverage and install drywells to control water run-off from the
porch. Located: 2715 Nassau Point Rd., Cutchogue.
This was found consistent. Conservation Advisory Council
supports application with the condition of a five-foot non-turf
buffer landward of the timber wall. Is there anyone here to
speak on behalf of or against this application?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes. Mark Schwartz, architect for the project. We
are just looking to build a relatively small screen porch over
an existing deck. We have ZBA approval because we are within 75
feet of the existing bulkhead. We will pipe the roof drainage
into the existing drywells, and there will really be very little
disturbance to the existing grade, so we have not shown a hay
bale line. But if you that's required, we'll show that also.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't think that will be necessary, Mark. It's
really a very minor project. I think the time to address the
buffer, is when this is ever replaced. If this is replaced,
then we'll address the buffer issue. The bulkhead can handle
the retaining wall so there is a buffer there already.
Is there anyone else to speak to behalf of this application?
(No response).
Board comments?
(No response).
I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: I11 make a motion to approve the application as
submitted.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. SCHWARTZ: Thank you.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Number five, Mark K. Schwartz, Architect on
behalf of VINCENT & CAROL MANAGO requests a Wetland Permit to
construct second floor additions and alterations to the existing
single-family dwelling. Located: 8225 Nassau Point Rd., Cutchogue.
The Board did go out and looked at this proposed project. It
was deemed exempt under the LWRP. And the Conservation Advisory
Council supports the application with the condition of gutters,
leaders and drywells are installed to contain roof runoff. So
the project would have to comply with Chapter 236.
Is there anybody to speak on behalf of this application?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yup, Mark Schwartz, architect for the project. We
also have been in front of the ZBA, we expect approval within
the next week or so. Same situation, we are within 75 feet of
the bulkhead. The ZBA also mentioned they would, they want to
Board of Trustees 29 July 18, 2012
have a roof drainage piped into drywells, which it is currently.
We are not adding any additional roof area. It's just different
slopes of the roof, dormers and things like that. And there will
be very little disturbance to the existing grade because it's
all second floor work.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Any other comments from anybody in the audience?
(No response).
Any comments from the Board?
(No response).
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I think this is very simple, it's within the
footprint of the existing structure. I think this is a very
simple application so if there are no other comments, Ill make
a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'll make a motion to approve the application of
Mark Schwartz on behalf of Vincent and Carol Manago as described
with the condition that it complies with Chapter 236 of the Town Code.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. SCHWARTZ: Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The next application, LeeAnn Romanelli on
behalf of BARRY ROOT requests a Wetland Permit to demolish a
portion of the existing dwelling and reconstruct with an
addition. Located: 6315 Indian Neck Lane, Peconic.
The LWRP has deemed this application to be consistent with
the town's coastal policies. The CAC moved to support the
application. And the Trustees performed a field inspection on
July 13. I believe both the CAC and Trustees had noted at the
time that the project had not been staked, in deference to the
meets and bounds of the project being within essentially the
outline of the existing, I'm not sure but I think the Trustees
felt they could waive the staking. It's unusual that we do
that, and for future reference, we prefer to have the project
staked. Did anyone see it staked? I don't recall it being
staked.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: No, not the new addition.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Just a point of information, ordinarily we
want to see stakes.
MR. MCGREEVEY: It was just an observation made by the CAC. There
might be a violation. We question the legality of the wire fence
along the property line.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes, that might be an issue that we would
refer to the constable for review. I don't believe the fence
came up as a point of discussion. I think it was a pre-existing
fence that did not, it was, it didn't raise suspicion during the
course of our inspection. But it would be something we could
have looked at.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We could make it a condition, if we get to a
Board of Trustees 30 July 18, 2012
permit tonight, make it a condition of the permit to remove the
fence.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Good point. So that covers the housekeeping
issues ahead of the comments. Is there anyone here who wishes to
speak on behalf of the application?
MS. ROMANELLI: Yes. LeeAnn Romanelli, for Barry Root. I actually
was told it was staked out, so I apologize. I think either the
builder or architect was supposed to have gone out. So I
thought that was done. But obviously not. Do you have the Zoning
Board approval? Because I have that here. It was approved by
the Zoning Board and we do have our DEC application, which was
supposed to be hearing that on August 6. If you want a copy of
that. Basically we are requesting the variance from 60 -- we had
69-feet existing and we are requesting 65-foot feet to be
bulkhead on the new construction.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I guess we should have that ZBA
determination for our file. And it's closest, the project will
be 65-feet to the northeast corner of that bulkhead; is that correct?
MS. ROMANELLI: Correct. Do you want the ZBA?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We should have it.
TRUSTEE KING: Have they made a decision on it?
MS. ROMANELLI: Yes, they approved it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That would be great if we had that in the file.
MS. ROMANELLI: I have an extra copy. This is August 6th is
their, when they expect to give us their decision. He does have
all the provisions in place for all the roof runoff, drainage; the
drywells are on the survey here, French drain along the entire
back, proposed patio. And we do have the line of hay bales.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Does anyone have any questions?
Anyone else who wishes to speak to this application?
MR. MCGREEVEY: John, there is no mention on what I have here,
but the CAC did raise a question about the new driveway, whether
it was within the boundary of the present applicant. It seemed
like on the application it was going over into an area of
concern. To the east, the new driveway on the east side of the
property. On the right side looking in.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: And the question is to whether or not the
driveway is going to go across the property line?
MR. MCGREEVEY: Right
MS. ROMANELLI: I think it abuts up right along the east property
line. Part of the neighbor's dirt drive, actually, comes over on
to our lot. But his, no, his is within, it does come right up to
the property line.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Is appears it comes right up to the property
line. It's confusing because you have the neighbor's driveway
and this driveway merge. And it does get confusing. But it
appears as though that their driveway is contained within the
meets and bounds of their survey here.
MS. ROMANELLI: Yes, it will be.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Okay, thank you. Anyone else wish to comment
on this application?
Board of Trustees 31 July 18, 2012
(No response).
Hearing no further comment, I'll make a motion to close the
hearing in this matter.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'll make a motion to approve this
application subject to a hay bale inspection and that the fence,
the wire fence on the west side of the property be brought into
conformity with the Town Code for fences.
MS. ROMANELI_h Okay.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: So moved.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MS. ROMANELLI: Thank you.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Number seven, Costello Marine Contracting Corp.,
on behalf of KENDALL TODD requests a Wetland Permit to remove
the existing concrete walkway landward of bulkhead; remove
existing wooden ramp and 5'X 18' floating dock; remove 76' of
existing bulkhead; construct 76' of new bulkhead and new 6' east
return in-place, raising top elevation of new bulkhead 2';
install new 30"X 16' seasonal aluminum ramp onto a 6'X 20'
seasonal floating dock secured by two 8" diameter anchor
pilings; dredge an area 30'X 25' below dock to -4' below
mean Iow water, removing approx. 40 cubic yards of soil; dredged
spoil to be placed as backfill for voids landward of bulkhead;
supplement dredged spoil with clean trucked-in sand (approx. 35
cy) as needed; and provide a non-turf buffer of 6" well
compacted gravel on filter cloth landward of bulkhead.
Located: 670 Bayview Dr., East Marion.
The LWRP found this to be consistent. The Conservation
Advisory Council voted to support this application recommending
a 15-foot, non-turf buffer, drywells to contain runoff, and a
disposition plan for the concrete. The CAC also questions the
need to increase the size of the dock.
The Trustees visited the site on the 13th of June and noted
it was a straightforward project. There was also a letter from
the Gardiner's Bay Estates Homeowners Association that supports
this application. Is there anyone here to speak to this application?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes, my name is John Costello, from Costello
Marine Contracting, is the agent for this application for Mr.
Dodd. This is an inplace replacement of whatever is there. And
it is the removal of the concrete which is settling just behind
the bulkhead. And the non-turf buffer, it is intended that the
entire frame within that structure be a non-turf, with gravel,
so that the water, when it comes in with a storm, and the reason
to elevate it, when there is a storm, there is water in that
site, to percolate down through the sand. The sand will act as a
filter. That's the design of it. If the Board has any questions,
I'll certainly try to answer any of them.
Board of Trustees 32 July 18, 2012
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Is there anyone else here to speak to this
application?
(No response).
Are there any other comments from the Board?
TRUSTEE KING: Weren't we talking in the field about trying to
straighten that bulkhead out a little bit?
TRUSTEE DOMINO: It's not in the notes, Jim.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We had some inferential or side discussion
in the field, thoughts about were there any other design
possibilities designed to lessen the number of feet of bulkhead,
possibly simplify the project, possibly to eliminate one of the
corners and go straight. I believe that was the point, right?
TRUSTEE KING: That's what we talked about.
MR. COSTELLO: Well, there is a multitude of different shapes you
could make it. The only reason we particularly went with this is
because it exists. We thought it certainly made the Army Corps,
the DEC, the Department of State's permit easier, to go exactly
in place. I mean, to redesign anything would mean we would have
to go back to any of those agencies.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We were thinking possibly eliminating that
one corner and going strai.~ht would enable possibly some wetland
creation. Because we were looking at the bigger picture.
Possibly eliminating any number of feet of construction costs
for the applicant as well. It was something that was out there.
It was discussed.
TRUSTEE COSTELLO: The only vegetation is right on the inshore
corners. There is vegetation and I don't know if you could get
more to grow there. I'm sure there is wetland species on the
returns, on both returns. And that was one of the reasons to add
the six-foot return on the west end, so the fill did not go down
into the wetland. I'm not a big fan of going and asking for a
lot of amendments time and time again, I mean. Because you will
get another comment out of the DEC:
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Any other comments from the Board?
(No response).
I make a motion to close this hearing.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I make a motion to approve this application as
submitted.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Number eight, Costello Marine Contracting Corp.,
on behalf of NORA FLOTTERON requests a Wetland Permit to remove
100' of existing bulkhead and 360 square feet of existing wood
decking; construct 100' of new bulkhead and 360 square feet of
decking in-place; remove approx. 20 cubic yards of sediment from
immediately in front of bulkhead and place as backfill landward
of bulkhead; and repair frame shed (boathouse) foundation as
Board of Trustees 33 July 18, 2012
needed. Located: 1480 Bayberry Rd., Cutchogue.
This is a hearing that we opened up last month and we
tabled. And we were looking for more information and permission
from the owner of the underwater lands. The file has not changed
since last month, and I think it's the Board's feeling we should
probably table it until we get the information we are looking for.
Is there anyone anybody here who would like to address the
application?
MR. COSTELLO: Yes, my name is John Costello, still. And we are
the agents for Nora Flotteron. And I would like to answer any of
the questions. Now, certainly, the Board did go out and inspect
the site. Certainly, the bulkhead, the age of the bulkhead, must
indicate to the Board that it certainly has been there for a
while. I project that that bulkhead was built quite a time
before I was in the business. Which is 49 years. So this
probably dates back into the 50's, that bulkhead has existed.
Now, I'm certainly not a lawyer and I'm not going to say
anything about adverse possession or whether the ownership of
some of these ponds and the location of it, but that bulkhead
has been there. And the deck has been there. And so has the
shed. And the shed has been patched, the bottom has been
repaired, and some of the locust posts need to be replaced in
order to support the lightweight shed that exists there now.
Any questions that the Board would have in regard to the
ownership of that area, I believe that at one time, there is an
adjacent piece of land that is on the tax rolls. That whole
pond, basically, the majority of the pond, lagoon, is on the tax
roll as lot 11.4, and it's owned by Perry and Berell (sic).
Which portion -- they pay no taxes -- which portion of that, is
under their direct their ownership and title, t doubt this
bulkhead is included in it, where it cedainly has some degree
of adverse possession over the life of the bulkhead.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: We have a letter from Jonathan Perry and I do
believe we read this into the Minutes at the last meeting, where
he writes about his strong opposition to the wetland application
and claims to be the owner of the lagoon bottom where the
reconstruction of the existing bulkhead is proposed. This has
been kicking around for a while. It has been going back and
forth. There have been issues there. And I think overall, at
least at this point, I don't feel like I can make a decision
because I don't want to, I don't want to do something or approve
something that is really not approvable. Until we resolve this
issue of ownership, I'm not comfortable voting on it. How does
anybody else feel?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Question for our attorney. How do parties
normally resolve these issues of boards would not ordinarily
want to get in the middle of these kinds of disputes. Do people
mediate or negotiate these matters?
MS. HULSE: In this particular instance Mr. Perry has provided
documentation in an attempt to show the town that he is in fact
the owner, that the lands were transferred to him, that predated
Board of Trustees 34 July 18, 2012
the Andros Patent. It could be done through litigation, obviously.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We always recognized it historically. I
remember my previous terms on the Board, Al Krupski, and I think
at this point, Jim has been a longstanding member and it's
always been noted it's privately held.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I'll say that the packet that Dr. Perry provided
along with this letter does show a long history of claim to it.
And the title insurance policy, and it seemed fairly convincing
to me when I read through it. I did take the time to read
through it. Of course I don't necessarily understand all the
verbiage that is involved. But I can read the diagrams, so.
Would someone like to address the Board?
MR. COSTELLO: I only know a little bit of it, through time, I
have learned a little about it. I did own the bottom of a
canal. Fordham Canal in Greenport. I owned the entire bottom of
that at one time. And I had title up to a certain point, the
high water mark on most of the shoreline. Since that time, I
know people have built bulkheads that were actually out on to my
property. Operating under the pretense that that bulkhead was
not theirs, it was mine, at that time. After a period of seven
years, I found out through adverse possession, they owned up to
the high water mark. And even though they took some of the
property. At that time, it was recognized by the court then. I
would talk to the people, and I sold each one of the people, the
portion that they took, accidentally, or thought they were
taking, for a hundred dollars a piece of property. In this
lagoon here, you are going to see, there are several structures
that go out into the pond, the lagoon. And I don't know, this
one certainly has been there, 50 years or more. But I don't know
what ~- I'm not a lawyer. I'm not going to say that this doesn't
have to be handled elsewhere, but certainly, to replace that
bulkhead, inplace, would be a logical request.
TRUSTEE KING: What if you built the new bulkhead behind that
bulkhead then cut the old bulkhead down and removed it? Because
the DEC, if it's behind a pre-existing bulkhead, it's
non-jurisdiction. He doesn't own behind that bulkhead, does he?
MR. COSTELLO: I know. But the only problem I would have is --
TRUSTEE KING: I think the biggest problem is the dredge issue.
MR. COSTELLO: The dredge. Or could t take the bulkhead out. Is
he or somebody else going to claim ownership of that bulkhead.
TRUSTEE KING: There is another gentleman here that wants to
speak.
MR. COSTELLO: I know. But I would doubt it. But we could
certainly pull it back six inches or eight inches and put in
another bulkhead. Of course the correlation would make it a
little further back than that. But that's certainly a logical
way to do it.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: I want to recognize the other gentleman.
MR. FLOTTERON: I'm Joe FIotteron, I own the adjacent property.
My wife owns the property in question. A couple things. First of
all, the letter you are referring to only is referring to the
Board of Trustees 35 July 18, 2012
dredging portion. If you read the letter. Not referring to the
bulkhead or the building or the other structure. That's the way
I read the letter. And I read it three or four times before
coming to that conclusion.
I come buffer today with regard to the dredging portion of
the permit for lot 117. I'm requesting to return the land and
the area of the soil that is eroded into the lagoon. This soil
was the backfill of the existing bulkhead. The lagoon bottom in
front of lot 117 does not belong to the Perry-Berell family. The
property was sold to my predecessor owner Beatrice Glenn (sic)
on November 28, 1947, by Charles Hammond (sic). In addition, the
bottom of the lagoon from lot 101 to 107 and lots 117 to 121, to
the midpoint of the lagoon, were purchased by Beatrice Glenn and
are part of our title chain. I've lived there for 20 years
without problems or incidents. This sale was recorded and filed
by the Clerk of Suffolk County 26 years before Perry Berelt
purchased their property. The tax records for the lagoon bottom
are incorrect and are not the proper documents to rely upon to
determine ownership. Filed and recorded deeds with the Suffolk
County Clerk are, and I request permit to dredge be approved and
I brought you the copies today of that recording, as well as
outline of what was sold. If I could give this to you.
TRUSTEE KING: I wish we them a while back instead of tonight so
we could look at them.
MR. FLOTTERON: These are three copies. The orange outline is my
property and my wife' property. The yellow is the lagoon that
was sold in 1947.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: All right, good.
MR. FLOTTERON: What is even more frustrating is this is a
discussion of soil falling into the lagoon over many years.
Trying to block what is a mess on a property that was one of the
worse properties in Southold Township, for ten-plus years, it
was my neighboring property. I hope that at least puts a better
bearing on the question of ownership or ownership of this lagoon
bottom.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I think what I'll do, this is not the
appropriate time to really review all of this, I'm going to make
a motion we table this once again and so we can take a look at
this to see if we can establish whether or not we have the
ability to make an approval.
MR. FLOTTERON: Bob, can I ask you a question? Or the Board, I
should say. Does that letter refer to dredging or does that
letter refer to the entire project?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: This letter refers to the reconstruction of the
existing bulkhead as proposed. That was verbatim.
MR. FLOTTERON: The way I read it, it had to do with touching the
bottom of the lagoon.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: We have a motion on the floor.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Ill withdraw the motion for the time being.
MR. FLOTTERON: It's the bottom of the lagoon has to take three,
four, five, years; the condition, safety. I can go on and on as
Board of Trustees 36 July 18, 2012
to why.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Just in reviewing this letter, my interpretation
is the objection is to excavation of approximately 20 cubic
yards of the bottom of the lagoon and disturbing the bottomland.
So that is my interpretation. I would agree with you.
MR. FLOTTERON: Like I said, I read it a few times to come up
with that conclusion. Although I would like to have the bottom
dredged, the necessity of the having the bulkhead, the dock, the
building repaired, is urgent. Pulling the soil out of the lagoon
is equivalent to two pick-up trucks. It's not a lot of soil we
are requesting or talking about.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Well, you heard the option that Jim proposed to
the applicant to consider. And then that takes this issue of the
bottom of the lagoon out of it so that you could proceed forward
with the bulkhead and -- it's not up there anymore -- the
boathouse and the deck part of this. It's just an option to
consider. That's all
MR. FLOTTERON: Why can't we build the sheathing right where it
already is without changing the location and not disturbing
anything beyond the bottom?
MS. HULSE: That application is not what is being requested.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We realize that.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I believe your motion was correct.
TRUSTEE KING: I think we should table it.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I'll make a motion to table the application.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: I'll second it.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: Patricia C. Moore, Esq., on behalf of THOMAS & MAE
MAURI requests a Wetland Permit to demolish the existing
single-family dwelling; construct new dwelling with new
sanitary system in front yard; install in-ground swimming pool
and patio; and install drywells as required. Located: 1135
Calves Neck Rd., Southold.
We will not be able to move forward with this tonight
because there was no LWRP on it. I think the LWRP coordinator
wants to go out and do an inspection on this. That's what the
note says.
The CAC supports the application with the following
conditions: Installation of silt fence and hay bales during
construction activities, storm water management plan, relocate
swimming pool to no closer than 50 feet from the wetland
boundary, installation of drywells to contain pool backwash, and
a permeable patio. Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of
or against this application?
MS. MOORE: Thank you. Patricia Moore on behalf of Mr. and Mrs.
Maud. Mrs. Mauri is here at as well to help address any issues.
This is an existing house that the Mauri's bought, and the house
is in poor condition, and in order to do the kind of renovations
that would be needed, it's just not capable of sustaining it.
So, this is a proposal to demolish the existing house, which is
Board of Trustees 37 July 18, 2012
closer to the wetlands than the proposed house. The proposed
house is being moved back about 20 feet from where the existing
house is located. It is meeting the zoning code, so we can go as
close as 40 feet to the front yard.
The inground pool is proposed at 50 feet from the edge of
the wetlands. As the CAC suggests -- well, it's actually more
than 50 feet, because we make the patio at 50 feet. It's about
six feet, an additional six feet back. So 56 feet from the edge
of the wetlands. The proposed patio, I have confirmed with Mrs.
Mauri that it is, they are stone pavers on sand, so it continues
to be pervious. And the, there are drywells proposed to meet all
storm water runoff issues, the storm water code.
Also, the existing sanitary system is going to be replaced
with an updated system, and that system is shown at the front,
east side of the corner of the property, more than a hundred
feet from the edge of the wetlands. So it's taking it out of the
Board's jurisdiction. Overall this is actually an improvement
from the existing house, which has compost and leaf compost in
an area that is within 50 feet or less of the top, or the edge
of the wetlands.
The Board did do an inspection and we are here to discuss
any additional mitigation that you ask us to incorporate into
this plan.
TRUSTEE KING: Pat, I know I mentioned it in the field but on the
survey it says 26.7% of lot coverage.
MS. MOORE: Yes, that's actually not -- John Metzger is never
quite sure which to use, as far as the actual lot coverage is
the 6.7 of the house and the inground pool. The patio is
actually not lot coverage for the Zoning Board, and it is a
pervious patio, so it's not considered lot coverage. But, urn, I
didn't have this changed because it just takes a long time to
have a modification on the survey. It's not applicable. If you
want me to have a new print done taking that out, I would be
happy to do it.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm just trying to recall the slope of the land
there. I just don't understand what the height of the proposed
pool would be compared to the proposed patio.
MS. MOORE: They are going to stay at the same elevation. Um,
this, the house you see the covered porch on the survey, the
steps down to the patio, and then the pool is at the same level
as the patio. The property was never, a lot of the houses along
Calves Neck Road were regraded at one point. They have lawns
going all the way down to the top of the bank. Urn, this property
pretty much stayed ungraded. And so we have kind of all of the
slopes all over the place. And you can see that there are some
existing rock walls that try to address it. Existing loose
slate patio is there with some rock walls. Those are the
existing. Those are actually not going to stay there. It's going
to be planted and natural. They want to make a more natural
setting of the property and incorporate plantings around the
pool, and the areas that are right now kind of bare. You could
Board of Trustees 38 July 18, 2012
see it's bare. Am I correct? If you want to speak, we need to
put it on the record.
MS. MAURh I'm Mae Mauri. The lady that was the previous owner
had not done anything for a very, very long time, according to
her nephew who sold us the house. A lot of those bushes that you
see are all gnarly on the bottom and they don't flower, and the
steps coming down are loose, and I have grandchildren that I'm
concerned about. So eventually I'll get a landscaping plan to
you, once I find out what you are going to approve and what you
won't. And I want to re-do it_with some of those bushes and
shrubs that don't need a lot of water, that have good root
systems that will hold the land. Because if you go down closer
to where the water is, you could see the roots coming under the
ground because of erosion. So, you know, I want to keep the
property the way it is. So I don't want anything to deteriorate.
So I'm open to even any suggests. But I'm getting a landscaper
in who knows his stuff on the water and get shrubs that will
hold the soil.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm still confused about the height of the pool
and height of the patio. Is there any fill to be brought in and
regrading to be done? Because the location of that pool is much
higher than where the patio is supposed to go. Maybe we could
see the elevation of the patio and the elevation of the pool
staked, then we would know.
MS. MOORE: It was staked out. Oh, you mean the height. Sorry.
The elevation.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Or the cross-sectional plan of the patio and
pool.
MS. MAURh The way it is, if I could show you there. The way it
is on that plan, where these trees are over here, that's all
flat. Then it slopes down this way. The pool is going to be flat
on there but the way it is on the plan, it comes out a little
bit so it will have to be done with some kind of retaining wall
around it just to would hold that part up. And it doesn't affect
down here. If you have another suggestion, I would be happy to
listen to it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'm looking at the plan. The contour line shows
a definite change in elevation, in the pool as well as the
patio. There is an opportunity here to think about of, because
also we had a concern about how close the pool, the proposed
pool and patio is to the top of this bank. And is there an
opportunity to consider tucking that pool in closer to the house
so that we are, that pool, it takes the contour line out of
play, and downsizing the pool so that it gets as far way as
possible from the top of the bank. Because normally we look for
50 feet setback from the top of the bank for a pool. Minimum.
MS. MAURh There's two other options. If the pool went up and
down instead of side to side, it's flat up there.
MS. MOORE: That's kind of where the compost pile was, if you
recall.
MS. MAURh That's totally flat and you would not have to do too
Board of Trustees 39 July 18, 2012
much elevation. You might need a retaining wall.
MS. MOORE: We can't be closer than 15 feet, I believe. Setback
wise. It has to keep a certain setback from the property.
MS. MAURI: Or you could do it on a diagonal and try to use as
much of that flatland as possible.
MS. MOORE: We have to make sure because of zoning to keep the
pool in the rear yard. So it has to be behind the back of the
house. Otherwise you are dealing with pools and side yards so,
urn, there is some flexibility; I think what she is suggesting is
the configuration of the pool, to try, I know what you are
saying to try to follow that contour line that is like, 18
contour line 18, if I'm reading the contour line well. Or 17. It
kind of cuts -- see the 18. It kind of carries along and then it
cuts in. So you could actually, because the patio looks like it
is actually following part of the contour line of 18 here.
That's contour 18. So we could actually keep, design the pool
either this way or design it in such a way that it's inside like
the contour line. Does that make sense?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: My suggestion is, you've heard our concerns
tonight. My suggestion is you go back and work with the
applicant and come back to us and we'll get some alternatives.
MS. MOORE: If I you give us some guidance--
MS. HULSE: They can't do that here though, Pat.
MS. MOORE: This is a public hearing, so.
MS. HULSE: That is exactly my point. This would be something
that would be the subject of a worksession. The public hearing
is for what you applied for here. So I'm just going to advise
them they should not negotiate or give advisory opinions during
this public hearing.
MS. MOORE: I understand. We are not asking for advisory
opinions.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We have additional problem that there is a
bit of Board confusion in the plan before us and elevations and
we don't want to amplify problems that could occur because of
misinterpreting both the conditions, ground conditions we found
in the field and what you have on the plan. So there is so much
confusion to it, we don't even really have a secure point to
start a discussion from. At least that's my own feeling. I feel
that certainly there are probably a lot of options for you but
we don't, we are not planning your project for you either.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I mean the one thing we do know is the setback
in the code is "X" off the top of the bluff. And it's typically 50 foot as a
minimum. So that's the starting point you are looking for.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The starting point is the 50-foot setback.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Right.
MS. MOORE: The reason we were not taking it from this bank is
that on Calves Neck you have sloped properties that are, that
they are all a gentle slope going down to what the, to the
wetland. So the surveyor, I mean if you look at the house next
door, he has a bulkhead that flattened out the entire property.
Um, where we are actually trying to work with the topography
Board of Trustees 40 July 18, 2012
that we have So I don't disagree with you trying to give you
some more information and maybe in the field it would be more
helpful; would you like me to have the surveyor mark out the
18-foot topography line here, that is showing on the survey?
Would that be helpful?
TRUSTEE KING: That would help. I would like to see the proposed
patio and the height of that staked, and the pool. And a couple
of positions of the pool.
MS. MOORE: What you want is the elevation where the pool and the
patio is going to be.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes, elevation of the pool and patio.
MS. MOORE: Okay, just mark us for the inspection and that way
I11 have you or your husband, there.
TRUSTEE KING: Are there any other comments?
(No response).
I don't know when Mark Terry will go out and look at it. I don't
know. So Ill make a motion to table this application.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MS. MAURh Thank you, very much.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I'll make a motion to adjourn.
TRUSTEE DOMINO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
Respectfully submitted by,
James F. ~
Board of Trustees
RECEIVED
JAN 2 2 2012
· ~