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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-11/19/2012PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS DONALD J. WILCENStCI Chair WILLIAM J. CREMERS KENNETH L. EDWARDS JAMES H. RICH III MARTIN H. SIDOR PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD MAILING ADDRESS: P.O. Box 1179 Southold, NY 11971 OFFICE LOCATION: Town Hall Annex 54375 State Route 25 (cor. Main Rd. & Youngs Ave.) Southold, NY Telephone: 631 765-1938 Fax: 631 765-3136 PUBLIC MEETING MINUTES Present were: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:30 p.m. Donald J. Wilcenski, Chairperson William J. Cremers, Member Kenneth L. Edwards, Member James H. Rich III, Member Martin H. Sidor, Member Heather Lanza, Planning Director Bdan Cummings, Planner Alyxandra Sabatino, Planner Carol Kalin, Secretary RECEIVED £C 18 1' .' Sou~old Town Clerk SETTING OF THE NEXT PLANNING BOARD MEETING Don Wilcenski: Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the November 19, 2012 regularly-scheduled Southold Town Planning Board's Public Meeting. Our first order of business is to set Monday, December 17, 2012 at 4:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, as the time and place for the next regularly-scheduled Planning Board Meeting. William Cremers: So moved. Kenneth Edwards: Second. Don Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor?. Ayes. Don Wilcenski: Motion cardes. Southold Town Planning Board Pa,qe Two November 19, 2012 PUBLIC HEARINGS 4:30 p.m. - Maaratooka North, LLC - This proposed Open Development Area (ODA) will create a development area of 4.5 acres in a 22.5-acre parcel with the future potential to be subdivided into a maximum of three residential lots and one 18-acre protected farmland parcel in the AC Zoning District. The property is located at 17405 NYS Route 25, on the n/s/o NYS Route 25, approximately 1,185' east of Mill Lane, Mattituck. SCTM#1000-115-2-6 Donald Wilcenski: At this time, I'd like to ask anyone from the audience if they would like to approach the podium and address the Planning Board regarding the public hearing on this application. Dan Ross for the applicant: As noted, this is a 22.5-acre lot. 18 acres are slated for development rights sold and 4.5 acres will be the open development area. The yield calculations that really were negotiated on a broader scale many years ago, result in this particular case to three lots in the open area. However, the State, which has an interest in this matter because their money is paying some of the development rights fee, has requested that only one lot be permitted to be knocked out of that open development area. I believe there is a letter to the Board to that effect and you will note that it is specifically indicated on the map. However, there has been a preservation of the uses that would otherwise be permitted for the three lots. In my experience, that's the first time there's been that distinction. But that's why that happened. I don't see Melissa (Spiro) here, but basically, when you run the yield numbers, you have three permissible lots in the 4.5. But the State said "no--we're paying for this or some of it, so we only want one lot to be knocked out of that 4.5." We basically agreed to do that with one lot; however, preserving for that 4.5 uses that would otherwise be permitted for three lots. That's basically what we are doing here. Any questions? Donald Wilcenski: Does the Board have any questions for Mr. Ross? Thank you. Is there anybody else in the audience who would like to address the Planning Board on Maaratooka North, LLC? Paul Viviano: I have the farm next door. It was previously owned by Marty Sidor. My question is: I went yesterday to the Planning Board and the people there were very nice. They showed us the map. I don't understand the map. There's no specific locations for the three houses or whatever. I don't see any farm road. How are you going to get to the back property--the 18 acres? I don't see that there either. I think it's an incomplete survey, whatever it is. Donald Wilcenski: I will let Mr. Ross answer the question, but I think those have been addressed. Southold Town Planning Board Pa.qe Three November 19, 2012 Paul Viviano: I didn't hear him--sorry. Dan Ross: I agree. You'll see the earlier renditions of the map was designed as a flag that went down to the Main Road. What the State has also requested in addition to-- and understand that there's not three lots; there's a yield of three but in the open development area, legislation that the Town adopted provided that you wouldn't have to knock out the specific borders in an open development area because maybe no one's ever going to knock those three lots out. That's why you don't see the lot lines for three lots in there. But again, the State has insisted that the applicant further restrict the property so only one additional lot gets knocked out of that 4.5 acreage first. Second, the State has insisted that there never be a separation of the 18 acres from the other acreage minus the one lot that they are permitting. They will always be in the same ownership. Again, the State is requiring the applicant to provide recorded deed restrictions to that effect. Consequently, they say since the 18 acres and the 4.5 which may someday be :~.5 will always be in the same ownership, there's no need for a right- of-way. So why limit yourself to a right-of-way? And they are insisting that there will always be access between the two--which they don't have to insist on because it's always going to be under the same ownership. Of course, you may lease the 18 acres to somebody and you may have a problem there, but what can you do? Did I answer your question, sir? Paul Viviano: No. What you're telling me is (inaudible) to build what you feel. OK. I don't see where you're going to.. I'm a licensed electrician and I've been in construction and I own buildings in the city and I've built in the city. Where is the access to the back property? How do they get there? You lease a property to me, I'm gonna let you drive through my yard to plow that field? Is that how that's gonna work? Dan Ross: If you lease the 18 acres in the back, I would suspect that you'd probably provide in your lease some way to get back there. Paul Viviano: I'm asking you... Dan Ross: And I'm saying ..... to provide access to the back if it was a lease situation. The back acreage and the front acreage will always be owned by the same people. Donald Wilcenski: Excuse me, gentlemen. You have to address the Board on this. Mr. Ross, I'll interject and just say that I believe the intentions are that whoever runs the farm in the back--the 18 acres--will be able to have an agreement with the lease of the owners the right to cross the front property line to get to the farm. That would make common sense to me. This is not really a true finished subdivision per se. Am I correct in saying that, Heather? Heather Lanza: I can explain what an ODA is a little bit. Southold Town Plannin.q Board Page Four November 19, 2012 Paul Viviano: I'm curious now. When Mr. Sidor--Barney--I knew Barney very well. When he sold his rights, why did they put a farm road on his property? They don't have a farm road. I don't understand the difference here. If I got four acres and a farm road which is on my property, he doesn't have a farm road. Does he? Donald Wilcenski: He has access to the back of the farm through the property on the Main Road. Paul Viviano: I don't see it on the map. Donald Wilcenski: Excuse me for a second. Can I just have Heather explain? I'm going to have Heather-head of Planning-explain what an ODA is and how it works. This should clarify it. Paul Viviano: OK. Heather Lanza: The Open Development Area does not show the lot lines of the future lots, which is why you don't see where the houses are going to go. So that's number one. Number two: your question is "why isn't there a farm road shown on the map?" Paul Viviano: Access to the back property. Heather Lanza: Mr. Ross has mentioned and I'll just try to explain it in a different way. You're not separating the front from the back. They are never going to be able to be subdivided from each other. They're always going to be the same owner. Even if they lease it out to someone else, they still have access to Route 25. If they are going to lease it out, they'll tell you where to drive across the front part to get to the back. So we didn't make them draw a road because they could have it wherever they want in the future. They just haven't decided where that's going to be yet. Paul Viviano: I have leased properties in the city by the way. Sometimes the lessees are not as nice as the renter or the owner. I don't go along with it. It's buying a pig in a bag. If he tells you where the properties are going to be and how he's getting access to the back, maybe I'll change my mind. I just don't agree with it. Donald Wilcenski: What is your concern as a neighbor? Paul Viviano: My concern (inaudible) houses near me--number one-- and I want to keep it farmland. Number two: it's why I bought that with the rights sold and I don't understand what you're putting it there. He's telling you three houses. OK, I can't argue with that; he has a right to build. I also have a right to know how he's getting to the back. Going through somebody's yard after you lease the property--it doesn't work Southold Town Planning Board Page Five November 19, 2012 like that. I have land in New Hampshire that has Indian trails deeded to me, and you're walking through a guy's barbecue to go to a lake. That's ridiculous, OK? Donald Wilcenski: To be honest with you, I don't think it is ridiculous. Because the same person owns the back 18 acres who owns the front and he is going to have control over where and how that farm is used and where the access to that back farm will be. I really don't see why it is a concern. It was an actively farmed farm for many years and there's a barn and a house on the farm. Paul Viviano: I know the farm. Donald Wilcenski: OK. Therefore, I think the owner will make sure that if he does lease the back farmland, it will be within his lease and within his rights to tell the lessor where to access the back farm. Paul Viviano: And he will put it in writing that whoever he leases it to will be part of his operation to lease it or what? Where's my protection? Tractor trailers in there turning around. I don't know if he's gonna put all the houses right on the line... I have no idea. I want to see what he's doing exactly. That's my only argument. I don't care about (inaudible); I like (inaudible). And that's it. Donald Wilcenski: Dan, would you like to answer? Dan Ross: Sure. Part of the sale of the development rights. The State is requiring (1) the title to those two pieces are never separated; they are always in the same person. Another--and this is a letter that went to the Planning Board--in this deal we reserve the right of ingress and egress from the Main Road to that portion of the Open Development Area that is not included in the allowable one-acre lot to the 18-acre development right easement in the back. So, the State is insisting on this--not that the owner wouldn't--but the State is insisting that the owner in this subdivision in the sale of these development rights, covenants in writing and filed at County Center, that they will never prevent the access. Now you don't see a specific road because they don't want to lock it in. You may want to put it on the other side someday. Paul Viviano: So how come I'm locked in? I don't understand that. Now you're telling me (inaudible) they gave him a road. Why was he locked in? Did the Town take advantage of an old man? I don't understand this now; I'm so confused. Donald Wilcenski: Excuse me, we are talking about the application that is before us here. We can't talk about something else. Southold Town Plannin.q Board Page Six November 19, 2012 Paul Viviano: I'm just telling you what I've witnessed living here for 30 years, OK? I'm just mentioning my property had to lock in a road. He don't have to lock in a road. I'm confused. Are they special people? Donald Wilcenski: No. I can see why you're concerned, but the owner owns both pieces of property so he has control. Personally, I would have concern if two different people owned the two separate parcels. Then you might get into a conflict of what people might want. But in this case, one person is the owner of both parcels. Right now this is an ODA where they are selling 18 acres of farmland. From what Dan is explaining, the State doesn't require them to show lot lines for the other lots in the front. Dan Ross: It may be, sir, that you are allowed to separate your back acreage from your open development area. Paul Viviano: I can. I checked it out. Dan Ross: Because you can, they have to create a road to make sure there will always be access. We are agreeing that there will always be access and the State is saying there shall never be a separation. So, the owner of the two lots will be the same. Donald Wilcenski: Excuse me, you have to address the Board. Please use the microphone. The proper form is to address the Board. And you have to address this application. Do you have any other questions? Paul Viviano: Yeah, I don't think he should be giving it. OK? I could deny it. It's an open thing--nobody knows. Nobody is going to come to me when he decides to put the road wherever he decides and bring in tractor trailers. (Inaudible) to say I didn't want the road there. The only place he's gonna put it is next to me and I don't want it there. He has to show me where it's going. I don't see it's such a big problem. If they had the rights, they should have thought this beforehand. Mr. Sidor sold the rights because he was an elderly man and I believe he was taken advantage of. They're all young guys. They should have figured it out. You're gonna put three houses where? Don't say this other nonsense--sporadic building--whatever the hell that is. I don't understand it--you put one here, you put one there, what? How does that work? Donald Wilcenski: Do you have anything else to add? Paul Viviano: No. I'm against it. I don't want to get involved with a legal battle after he does what he wants to do and I'm not happy with what he came up with and have to hire a lawyer to fight him so the other guy could make money. It's ridiculous. Donald Wilcenski: OK. Please sign your name for the record. Thank you very much. Paul Viviano: Thank you. Southold Town Planninq Board Pa.qe Seven November 19, 2012 Donald Wilcenski: Does anybody else have a comment or need to address the Planning Board on this issue of Maaratooka North, LLC? Any staff or Board Members have any questions for Mr. Ross? Hearing none ...... James Rich: I make a motion to close the hearing. William Cremers: Second. Donald Wilcenski: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Donald Wilcenski: Motion carries. Thank you very much for your comments. 4:32 p.m. - Surrey Lane~ LLC - This site plan is for the proposed construction of a 90' x 42' (3,780 sq. ft.) agricultural equipment storage building on a Suffolk County Development Rights property of 43.7 acres in the A-C Zoning District. The property is located at 46975 NYS Route 25 and fronts Lower Road & NYS Route 25, Southold. SCTM#1000-69-5-18.6 Donald Wilcenski: At this time, I'd like to ask anyone from the audience if they would like to address the Planning Board on this application. Bill Kelly, authorized argent for the owner: I am here so if there are any questions the Board wishes to ask, I am authorized to answer. Emily Gei.qer, 2345 Ackerly Pond Lane, Southold: I would like to address the Board. Do we have a copy of the map? I saw the proposed plan in the Planning Office. Donald Wilcenski: There's a map in the foyer. Hanging on an easel outside. Emily GeiRger: I've seen it. But it would be nice if we could take it ..... Donald Wilcenski: OK. While Heather is bringing that in, would you please state your name and write your name for the record? Emily Gei.qer: Is Surrey Lane Sparkling Pointe? Any connection? Donald Wilcenski: No connection with Sparkling Pointe.