HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/14/1966Southold Town Planning Board
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N, Y.
PLANNING BOARD
MEM'B~:RS
,John V/ici:hem, Chairmen
Henry Molsa
Alfred Grebe
Archibald Youn9
%Y/il lia m Unkelbach~
MINUTE $
$OUT~IOI~D T~0~VN'PYu,~tNNLI~G BOARD
June 14, 1966
A regular meeting of theSouthold Town Planning Board was
held at 7:30 P.M., Tuesday, June 14, 1966, at the Town Office,
Main Road, Southold, New York.
There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman,
Henry Moisa, Alfred Grebe., Archibald Young, William
Unkelbach.
Also present: Rod Van Tuyl, Consultant; Lawrence Tuthill,P~E.;
Howard Terry, Building Inspector.
THE CHAIRMAN: I will open themeeting at this time. The
first thing on the docket is Harbor Lights~Estates,.at!'BaYview-
Mr. Reese is here and we have discussed this several times. We
have the approval of the highway"layout signed by~the~Superintendent
of Highways, dated March 29, 1966. We had some correspondence
with the attorney on this. He was as cooperative as I would like,
but the Town Board has changed some of'their-thinking so I don~t
know if this is so important any more. How are you fixed:~with
the ~ounty~Board of Health?
MR. REESE: We are pretty well squared away.
MR. R~DVAN TUT~: We have a prelimina~ymap on Section III
of this subdivision which I believe Mr. Reese would like to get
tentative or preliminary approval on it.
June 14~ 1966
-Southold Town Planning Board -2-
THE CHAIRMAN:~ets take care of'Section II first. As
I recall the real'~thing was the park and playground and the
beach fron.t.
ROD VAN'TUYL: I think.there is some change in'Section III
fron the overall, plan.
The Board viewed and~cussed the overall plan of the
subdivision.
THE'CHAIRMAN: Section II, is just the six lots rightthere.
MR. REESE: You ma~fbe interested in the amountof area
set aside for'Park and Playground area.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is it your thinking that this area set
aside for3apark will be for Sections I, II, and III, and
any additional sections?
MR~ REESE: That-four or five acres on Section III should
take c~re of the whole thing.
HOWARDTERRY: The baa~ch area will be open to all sections?
MR~ REESE: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: The beach area ought to be on one of the
maps.
MR~ REESE. I think we have indicated on the.covenants
that this right is rairrevocable.
THE CHAIRMAN: It still should show on the map.
MR. YOUNG: What,is this pond and park swamp? Is that-in
addition to the otherpark area?
MR. REESE: Thatis extra area in'addition to this.
A general discussion wasaheld on the total number of lots
in all sections of'Harbor'Lights-Estates. It-was d~%ermined
that there areapproximatelyl50 lots.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have two.pieces of business to take care
or'here. First to approve this Section II, consisting or'six
lots for a hearing. For that we would require a letter of
intent on this park. I think we have done-this before with you.
Southold Town Planning Board -3-
June 14, 1966
THE CHAIRMAN: Your letter should state that-the park
area will Re made available with the filing or-Section III,
of Harbor~Lights.
On motion by Mr~ Grebe, seconded by'Mr. Moisa, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set
8:45 P.M,, ~Tuesday, Ju~l~~-., 1966, at the Town Office?
Main Road, Southold, New York, as the time and place of
heating'upon the question of approval of the following
plat: Plat of property owned by Harold and Frederick
Resse, entitled Harbor'LightsEstates, Section_~II,
at-Bayview~ consisting efta parcel of. landS.~facres,
situated atSouthold~ in 'the Town of Southold~ Suffolk
County, New York, bounded and describes as follows:
(See page ~ for legal description.)
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr.
Greb~e, Mr. Yo~ng~ Mr. Unkelbach.
THE C~AIRMAN: Now, we have an application for preliminary
approval on Section III of the same development, Showing
four acres in park and playground. The lots are all mininnm
size or more. Where are we on the highways.
MR. REESE: The road thatgoes through here was approved
with~Section I.
THECP!AIRMAN: The highwayin effect has beenapproved
for~Section III, and the bond covers it.
MR. YOU~G: One lot on North Bayview road has been sold.
'Has this been approved?
MR. RE~SE: Yes~ that ia a farm house.
On motion by Mr, Moisa~ seconded by'Mr. Young,it was
RESOLVEDthat preliminary approval be granted to the
subdivision to be known as Harbor'Li.ghts'Es~ates~ SeetionIII,
located at Bayview, .in the Town of'Southold~ Suffolk, County,
New York, consisting of 22.94 acres, map by-Otto Van Tuyl and
Son, da~ed April 7, 1966.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Mr.~ Young, Mr. Unkelbach.
Planning
- -Houthold Town/Board
-4-
June 14, 1966
THE ~: There ~s one other thing I feel we-should
tell you. The Town Board actually does not know what'they
want'in the form of park and playground. We have been in the
position' of~having required .certain things and the Town has
been unwilling to take themover. Just what the disposal of
this park and playground is going to be I~can't tell you at
this time. It is probable thatyou will have to maintain
it~yourself, or'set it-up'so that it-will be maintained by
the home owners. -Another~thing to tell all you Gentlemen,
t~e Planning Board, if Ih ave anything to ~do with it~ The
Planning Board is going to work slower'and more carefully.
One basic reason is that the Planning'Consultant wishes to
amend out'Zoning'Ordinance and theRules and Regulations for
the Subdivision'of-L~d, but they do not wish to do this
for a few more months and the Planning Board is going to
drag it~sfeet. We don't approve very many subdivisions
for-hearings'between now and the time the amendments are
made. In this case the application has been in-for'six months.
For any new subdivisions or-new sections we are going to
go slower and be more ~onsiderate. SomeTown~s in the Western
part of~the'County~take as l~ng as two years to push a sub-
division through. We don't'plan on taking quite that~long.
(Mr. Reese asked what the Planning Consultant's suggestion
was. TheChairman advised~r. Reese and others present-of
the critical water situation in certain'ar~as of-Southold Town.)
The next item to come be~re the Planning Board was the
subdivision o~Daniel-T.~ George Herebe~t andWilliam~B.
Smith, consisting of a parcel of land 19.4 acres, situated
at-Southold, in the Town of-Southold, Suffolk~Count~ New
York. Mr. William B.~Smith appeared before the Board in
regard'to this subdivision.
W~T~LIAM'SMITH: I was going to ask for another~postponement
because we have not been'able to come tosmy agreement.
THE'CHAIRMAN: George Wells was down to see me. The first
thing I told him was that the Planning Board.was noh going to
approve anycanal ~p here. We were interested in having a
private project on private land and puting a low dike across
and would he be interested. He seemsvery much interested.
They are prepared to-give the Town the right-to put'up a
low~ike on the property'on an easement basis, that~they will
accept~any right of way you want to put down there, but they
Southold~Town Planning Board -5-
June 14.~ 1966
feel~ and I feel, that the Town has got to have some ~access to
this low dike. Theyb~ve to service it. If this is going to
be Town proPertY or'Town easement, they have got to have
access to it. There is one other thing'that I would like to
have 'this~connection go to saltWater'and in just thinking
of it, this.comes in further than waht is dmaw.n here. If
yo~r put a 50 foot road in there and put the dike right
accross there, I don~t think you would have to wo~ry about
a 100 foot turn'around because it-will be on Town easement
property. -I also s~ggested that-'the Town might do the
survey~ but in any case if this was done~ they. would forget
aboutthe right-of-way. Now~ how would you feel about t~s?
WILLIAM.SMITH: ! don't think this would affect Us a great
deal.
THE'CHAIRF~: You would have more water front if the
dike was put across . You can do what they.want ~to do and
still have some veryvalUable lots. I WOuld want to see the
map' of~'the meadow. I think-thateveryone would profit from
such a p$Oject. It's Obvious the Planning Board hms got-to
speak to the Town Board, and I thinkthey.will accept. ~r
water engineer says we ought to do this. Do you have any
objection to this? ~
WILLIAM SMITH: Not particularly.
THE'CHAIRMAN: It looks tome everyone will gain from this.
~r. Smith asked if they'could start~oughingin the roads.
The Chairma~ stated that they had been given tentative approval
on this subdivision'and~this would include the roads. The Board
and Mr. ~Taith, discussed ha~ing~M~ Lawrence~ ~hill; ~P.-E~ go
with~Mr. Smith to look'at this meadow and advise the~ Planning
Board as to the best'loCation for the proposed dike.
On motion by Mr. Young, seconded by'Mr. Moisa, it was
RESOLVED Thatthe'Se~thold Town Planning'Board request
Mr.. Lawrence Tuthill tolook.the meadow situaticnover in the
subdivision to be developed by'Daniel T., George Herbe~and
William B. Smith~ and report"back-to the aPlanning Board advising
them the best possible location for the proposed dike to be
located.
Vote of~ the Board: Ayes-:- Mr. Wickham, Mr, Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Young.~ Mr. Unkelbach.
Southold Town Planning Board -6- June 14, 1966
Mr. Hamdsch, and twoassociates, appearedbefore the
Board with a preliminary map of land to be developed by South
Eork~DevelopmentCorp. The property in question is generally
described as being bounded north by~Mai~ Bayview Road, east
'by land formerly of Betsie Clark and land formerly of
David Griswold, south by'Corey.-Creek, west by land of St.
patrick's R.C. Church. The subdivisio~~ pl~'conSisted! of
some 30 lots. The map shows a creek g~tte~which the applicants
intend to dredge and create a manmade~canal.
MR. 'HAMDSCH: We have the Town Trustees permission to,ut
the channel into this part of the property. The only objective
we have had is the Board of Health is m~king'us~-move these
lots to the upland area in o~der to get,wells and ce~sspools.
THE CHAIRMAN: You may have a problen~ You may have a
permit from the'T~n Trustees to dredge thatgutter~
have got a more important bridge to cross. We will.not
approve a subdivision, at least-we have not approved lately,
a subdivision where ~s~t water is cut'up into the land.
MR. HAMDSCH; This gutter~was already'cut in here.
THE CHAIRMAN: We are not prepared to approve any
subdivisions where a canal will be deepened. You have a
long way to go. It simply'isn't possible to dredge and
cut salt water up into land. The Planning BOard does not
take lightveiw of this, we take a very serious view of this.
We have amended our Rules and Regulations for the subdivision
of land to require youto get approval of-anysubdivision
for a man made canal. In ~is case that was j~s~t~up here,.
theywanted ~to do the same thing and are endingmp byp~tting
a dike across there.
MR. UNKELBACH: Salt water is a serious problem for
this ~Town rightnow.
THE CHAIRMAN: The CountyBoard of Health has given us
and lot owners notice of-the salt problemri~ht in the
choice.residential sections oflthe ToWn. The PlanningBoard
tk~es a very'se~i~D~ view on this.
MR. HAMDSCH: This is something we were not aware of.
THE CHAIRMAN: It is in the rules and regulations for
the Subdivision of'Land.
Southold Town~ Planning Board -7- June 14~ 1966
T~E CHAIRMAn{: If you are going to do any filling you have
got to make a cut to get fill and this means you are dredging.
Actually~ I-don~t know when you got the'approval fromthe Town
TrUsteess becaus~ theytold us that they were going to be very
careful about giving any permits. We also assured theythat
we were going to be more than ~caref, ul granting any'subdivisions
on this. This is a very real problem.
MR. HAMDSCH: How is the rest of the layout'outSide of that?
MR.' MOISA: You want to change the layout if the Board of
Health doesn'tapprove of these lots down on themeadow.
MR. HAMDSCH: We will have to conform to whatever the
Board of Health requires.
MR.' UNKELBACH: The fact~that the Board of Healthrequires
you to move these lots on the upland should have given you
an inclination that there was a water prob~emhere.
MR. YOUNG: Did the Town Trustees as a-l~, body~give
you permission for this or did you seek ~ut one member?
MR2 HAMDSCH: We were represented at a meeting.
THE CHAIRMAN: It seems to me th~tu'W~ would get-a letter
from them stating what there action was in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We paid the fee.
MR, YGUNG: We have got a letter from them before. I
dOn't-thinkS-we should give any preliminary approval until we
see something in writing. I certainly won~tgo along with
preliminary ,approVal on what you brought in here,'tonight.
MR, UNKELBACH: Did you have an attorneyrepresent-you
before the Trustees.
MR, HAMDSCH: It was part of the deal when we bought'this
land that we could do this.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They sent us a bill for the fee
for the permit.
MR. UIqKELBACH: That doesn'tmean it was approved.
Southold Town Planning Board -8- June 14~ 1966
THE CHAIRMAN: By moving the lots on the upland you would
only be losing three lots.
MR. HAMDSCH: I don't think this layout would uphold with
the Board of Health anyway,
THE CHAIRMAN: It may be that the Trustees felt that in
view of the fact the creek has been deepened and dredged', they
granted permission. I suggest that you let us get-in touch
with them and by that time you will know more about the Board
of Health and we will know more about how the trustees feel.
I guarantee no~hing. There is always the possibility of some
compromise.
MR. YOUNG: Maybe we should get in tQuch with'Mr. Whitlock
and find out if he has gotten into more detail~about-these
areas that he has earmarked~"bad'', and this is one of them.
We don't-want to go against an engineer who we are paying.
THE CHAIRMAN: Howard~ is there any possibility of-watermains
down Main Bayview Road?
HOWARD TERRY: It~ depends on how many more applications
we get down there.
MR. HESN)SCH: Would the rest of this layout be okay up
to this water part?
THE CHAIRFua_N: I don~t see anything else wrong with it.
However, don't go. cutting any roads through yet.
~tt was agreed that'Mr.. Hemdsch would be notified of the
time and date or'the next-Planning'Board meeting.)
bir.~WilliamNiles appeared before the Board on behald of
Home.Exchange, Corp.,.for a change of'zone from~"A" Residential
and. Agricultural District to "B=2'' Business District-on certain
real property'situated at Mattituck, ~In the Town of~$outhold,
Suffolk-County, New York, and more particularly bounded and
describedas follows:
Southo!d Town-Planning Board -9- June 14, 1966
BEGINNING~at a point on the southwesterly side of'Wickham
~Avenue at the northeasterly corner of'Ruland; running thece
along said last mentioned 1.and south 47.: 38' west 236 feet;
runninq thence south 43° 12' 20" west 88,40 feet; thence south
43: 19' 30" east 106,92 feet; thence south 4 12' 20" west
'200 feet'to 'the northeasterly side of Maiden~Lane; running
thence along the northeasterly side of Maiden Lane north 48:
57' 30" wes%~307 feet to the mean highWater mark .of~Mattituck
Creek; thence along .said mean highwater line ina northerly
and northeasterly direction approximately 500 feet~to land of
Williams; running~thence south 44: 11' east 220 feet; running
still along'said land of Williams north 47: 38' east 101,34
feet to the southwesterly'side of~Wickham~Avenue; thence along
said line of~Wickham~Avenue south 39:07~ 20" Dastr49,58 feet
to the pointor place ~of~beginning,
THE C~: One of th~ reasons we asked that~you be
here is ~nat~bir, Reeve had been here talking about"this. We
wanted to see if we could widen Maiden~Lane to have access
here,· The next thing we knew~we had this application from
you,
MR. NT?~S: When we took this property over~we plan to
dedicate this property and Mr. Reeve indicated that~the To~n
Wad interested ,in getting an additional 1~ feet,~tha~was
in addition to Maiden~I~ne, As it~stands now it is privately
owned by the tDme owners on the other side so that~theydidn~t
know if this would 'come to pass,
T~E CHAIRMAN: The problem is now, what about access?
MR.' N~$: We weren't planning to make that'a street.
THE CHAIRMAN: We mightzequire you' to make it a street.
We are interested in getting business development'here- We
thinkthis is business pro~ty.
MR, NT*~S:-'~e were, in hopss that when we went to the ~
Town Board that they.would say'Maiden Lane would be a Town. road.
~T~E'CHAIRMAN: I don't think this Town has ever condemned
propertyfor~highway useage.
MR. N~$: I was not t~ing' in terms of condemnation.
I thought~that theywould acquire Maiden Lane. I am trying
to answer you questions, We will have to apply to the county
to make curb cuts. We want'to divide this frontage in half.
$outhold Town' Planning Board ~10- June '14, 1966
YOUNG: Do youplan to develope tb~ all in, business?
MR~ N~S: This front part is all business.
~application i~ for a "B-2" Business'Distr~t.
for a marina.
The land
That-will
THE CHAIRMAN: I was thinking itmight-mmke sense to have
one curb cut-hereand another one here i~eintin~'to map) so
that~yOuwill not disrupt'traffic fl'ow to badly on,'the main
highway.
i(Proposed curb cuts, traffic flow on the property,
and entrance and exit' to the propertywas discussed at'some
lenght. It was thought that perhaps 'there should be one way'
traffic~on-the property in question. Curb-cuts adjacmnt to
this. property were'also ~scussed. Mr. Niles stated that the
property-under discussion carries a right of Way over-Maiden
Lane. He stated'he would trytalking to the people who
own-Maiden3~ane.and see if some arz~gementcould be worked
out. )
WilliamChudiak~appeared before the-Planning Board for
an i~formal discussion. He has property on the West side of
Cox Neck'Road. ~He would like to.dedicate .the roadgoing
through this property to the Town of Southold. He would
also like to dedicate a dry,well to the Town on this property.
THE ~4AIRMAN: These lots are too small.
WT~.LIAM CHUDIAK: They are' 12~500 square feet.
THE CHAIRMAN: On the highway this is fine.
~Mr'.. Chudiak'explained that the people who,wanttobmy
these lots are buying all theway'through the next'lot in ba~k.
Actually itis two lots. Mr, Unkelbach advised that.these.lots
should Show as one lot.)
THE-CHAIRMAN: ~uyone that buys one lotclear'through can
only build one house on it. This has got to be spewed' Out
very clearly. Youcould divide this proper~yinto'four~l°ts
and you would not have to file a map.
Mr., Chndi~k~pointed to thee map of the property.in-question
and again explained how the lots were tayed out.
Southold-Town-Planning Board -ii-
June 14, 1966
THECHAIRMAN: If you f~le a subdivision map it is going
to,kc some six months or more and cost'you_ money. ~ We will
approve access on four'lots, but for~five' or'more lots you
have got:to file a map. We are in a position:that~we have
got-to say.to you, either file a map, get-test~holes, etc.,
and how many lots will you.have. Only. 6 lots.
WILLIAM CHUDIAK: I don'twant'any.narrow road through
there. LODk what'happened upat-Camp Mineola.
THECHAIRMAN: I'agree with you on 50 foot-roads. What
am saying is that you would be'~better'off to get
approval of~access~and sell fourlots~Ww~X rather'than
filing a subdivision map, taking six'months and spending
$t,000.00 .
WILLIAMCHUDIAK: These lots are running much deeper
here. When they are buying back to back, I don.'t think
it~lfair.
THE-CHAIRMAN: In order to file a subdivision map you
will have to make these lots 20~000 square feet.
;(The~Chairman suggested to Mr.~ Chudiakthathe consult
'Mr. Van Tuyl and that they tmve a new map drawn up.)
The'Plann~ Board received from the~Town Board the
original petition of Casbor~ Inc., for a change of zone
from~"A"Residential and Agricultural District to
Business District on certain real prope~rty situated at
Matt~tuck~ in the Town of~Southold, Suffolk~County, New
York, and more particularly.'bounded and described as
follows: BEGINNIN$~at a monument on the northerly side
of the Main Road at the southeasterly corner of the
premises herein described and the south~esterlycorner
of land now or formerly or'Wilson, from said point, of
~beginning running along said landnow or fommerly of'Wilson,.
North 24~ 04' 20" West a distance of 711.70 feet to a
m~nument and-land of~Long ~sland Railroad; running thence
o 50"
atong said land or'Long Island Railroad, south 44 43'
West a distance of 316.89 feet to land now or formerly of
Wilsberg, formerly of James Young; running thence along
said land now or formerlyof'Wilsberg, two courses and
distances: (1) south 21~ 56' 20" East 418~11 feet; thence
$outhold Town Planning Board -12-
June 14, 1966
{~) South'21° 17' 20" East a distance of 282.60 feet~to
a-~monument on the northerly side or'the Main~Road; running
thence along the northerly-side of the Main~Road, North 48°
20~'10~ East a distance of~340.70 feet to the monument at the
pointor place of beginning.
The Planning Board discussed the proposed change of
zone.
On motionby'Mr. Unkelbach, seconded.by'Mr. Moisa, it was
RESOLVED-that~the~SoUthold Town Planning Boarddoes
not'recommend.to the'Southold Town Board.the change of zone
from "A" Residential and-AgricUltural District-to "B~2"
Business District~on-the property described herein before.
The Planning Board.feels that-this particular change.of
zone would constitute~spot zoning. TheBoard points out-that
Murphy's Garden'Center, across the street from the property
in question, is not zoned business. The BOard further points
out,that there is no business.zones in the immediate adjoining
vicinity.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr.
Grebe-~ Mr. Young, Mr. Unkelbach.
The PlanningBoard received from theSuperintendent of
Hi~hWays,-Mr. Raymond Dean, final approval of the roads in
the subdivision to be known as Sterling Homes. The Chairman
felt that-the Planning Board should have Mr.~Lawrence Tuthill
inspect these roads before th~ Chairman~igns the final maps.
On motion by'Mr. Unkelbach, seconded bylMr. Grebe, it was
RESOLVED that-Mr. Lawrence Tuthill,~ PjEj be asked to
inspect the,roads in the subdivision to be known as SterI~ing
Homes, and
BE IT-FURTHERRESOLVED that the Chairman of the' Southold
Town~PlanningBoard be authorized to sign the final maps on
Sterling Homes if'Lawrence Tuthill's report-is favorable.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa~ Mr.
Grebe~ Mr. Young, Mr. Unkelbad~.
$onthotd TownPlanning Board -13- June 14, 1966
motion by~Mr~ Moisa, seconded by Mrl Grebe, it was
LRE$OLV~ that the minutes of'the SQuthold ToWnPta~ning
Board dated May 3, 1966~ be approved as submitted, and that
the notation be made that-Mr. Grebe was on vacation at the
the time of the May 3, 1966 meeting.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:!i~- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr.
Grebe, Mr. Young, Mr. Unkelbach.
The nextreg~lar meeting of~the-Southold Town'Planning
Board will be held at 7:30 PJF~(E~D~'S-.T~), Tuesday, July 12,
1966, at-the Town Office, MainRoad,~ Southold, New York.
The meeting was adjourned at 10:15~P.M.
Respectfully'submitted,
Barbara C- Dittmann, Secretary
JOHN WICKHAM,
'Southold TownPlanning Board -14-
JUne 14, 1966
Legal description of Harbor'Lightst Section II:
BEGINNING-at a point on the westerly line of~Windjammer
'Drive, 310.83 feet-northerly along said westerly line from
Anchor'Lane, said pointer beginning being the northeasterly
corner of'lot-10~ as shown on'"Map of Harbor'Lights~Estatesa
Section I", filed in the Suffolk-County-Clerk's Office as map
~4362; 'from said point-of beginning'running along said lot 10
and along land of Frederick and Harold Reese, N. 64° 05' 10" W.-
365.42 feet; thence along said land of Reese, four courses:
(1) N.. 20° 12'~ 20" E.- 251.25 feet; thence
(2) N. 25° 54' 50" E.- 300.0 feet; thence
(3) S. 64° 05' 10" E.- 600.0 feet; thence
~4) S. 25° 54' 50" W.- 200.0 feet-to the northerly-line
of Harbor Lights Drive; thence along said 'northerly'line,
N. 64° 05' 10" W.- 200.0 feet; thence across said Harbor
LightsDrive and along said westerlyline of~Win~ammer~Drive~
S. 25° 54' 50" W.- 333.40 feet; thence along said westerly
line or'Windjammer'Drive, 'S. 55° 54' 50" W,- 19.17 feet to
the point of beginning. Containing 5.895 acres.