HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-03/01/1966Southold Town Planning Board
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y.
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John V/icLham, Chairman
Henry Moisa
Alfred Grebe
A~'chibald Youn~
· ~'illia m Unkelbach
MINUTES
SOUTTIOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
+
March 1, 1966
A regular meeting of the Southold Town'Planning Board
was held at 7:30 P.M.,~ Tuesday, March 1, 1966,.. at the Town
Office, Main Road, Southold, New York.
There were present: Messrs: Jo~nWickhmm, Chairman,
Henry'Moisa, Alfred Grebe.,-Archibald Young, and William
Unkelbacho
Also Present: Messrs: Rod Van Tuyl~ Consultant~, Howard
Terry~ Building Inspector; Raymond Dean, Superintendent of
Highways.
Fir. Frank Born appeared before the Planning Board to
discuss the park and playground requirements for the sub-
division to be known as "Salt Aire~Estates'', located at
Mattituck~ New York. This property is owned and developed
by Casbor, In~.
THECHAIRMAN: We~ the Planning Board haven't discussed
what would be required for park and playground and we haven't
reached a decision. It's something we can't settle in the
immediate future. We-have hope, and there is a case pending
March 1.~ 1966
Southold Town Planning Board --2-
the Town Attorney tells us that'may c~.ify the situation.
There have been several attempts by different Planning Boards
of the State to have a cash equivalent.
MR. BORN: There is a Town Park just a block away.
THE CHAIRMAN: It isn't fair to one developer,just because
he is one block a~ay from an existing park~not to have to make
park and playground provisions. This is unrealistic, Wecan
not act arbitrarily. What we could like to do for some of
these developers is to say~ let~s have a cash equivalent based
on ~the assessed value of a lot or whatever is is, and put it
where it will do the most good, which we thinS would be the
public parks or public beaches.
If a cash equivalent deal can not be worked out~ the
Planning Board might ask you to put up lot 32 which is next
to the recharge basin for dedication to the Town. Would that
be any hardshiP?
MR. BORN: It would only be a monetary hardship, None of
these lots have been sold yet.
~It was agreed by the Board a~d Mr. Born that it would be
better tohave a park and playground fund father-than dedicate
land~ if this can be worked out.)
MR. YOUNG: We like to get these things ironed out. OUr
decisions are based on what is best for the Town of Southold
and the developer. We have to work together, ~We ca~t act
arbitrarily and then in three months,change our minds,
MR. MOISA: perhaps we will have an answer on this park and
playground fund at the neetingnext Wednesday.
THE CHAIRMAN: Let's.leave it open for awhile. If it does
come down to dedication, we~ill require that lot number32'be
dedicated. You will have to renumber the lots. The County
~lerk insist that all lotsbe numbered consecutively.
~, BORN:~WE WON~T do anything with thatlot at the present
time then.
THE CHAIRMAn,: When youhave the final maps prepared keep
that lot in your name or the c~poration name and it can be sold
by description if not dedicated to the Town,
Southold-Town'Planning Board -3--
March 1,1966
MR, BORN: The final maps have alreadybeen prepared.
~ODVAN TUTL: This is going to foul up the numbering,
Mr, Unkelbach suggested that the lot can 1retain its
number'and there should be put on themap on iot'~32 that it
is for possible dedication tothe Town of Southold,-Either
lot number 31 or lot number 32 can be set aside by the
developer for possible dedication to~e Town of Southold.
Mr, Born stated that most, of the test holes for the
water'have been taken. A copy of the new highway specificat~ns
were given to Mr. Born for the construction of the roads.
Mr. Born is to comply to the Highway SpecifiCation of the Town
Of Southold when constructing said roads. The Chairman
advised Mr, Born to check-with the County Clerk inregard
to retaining the number on either tot number 32 or lot number
31 and putting on the map "for possible dedication,tothe
Town of Southold". He also advised Mr. Born that if
everything was in order at the next meeting this subdivision
could be set up for a hearing,
Walter' Kapp~~ Esqo appeared before the Board in regard
to the application of Frederick Rich~ applying for an Open
Development Area,
THE~: We have had some discussion onthis, There
are two good alternatives.on this pzoposal, One alternative
w.ouldbe tommake this a one way rightcfway~ and then have
an entr~ce from'Boisseau Avenue on this side ~ointing to map),
Thee other alternative might be to move these buildings on this
location. ~ointing to map)
W~LTEREAPP~ ESQ.: How wide would a one way 'road have to
be?
THE CHAIRMAN: Twenty feet, Therother alternative would be
to have it just as it is laid out here and have it two way~ but
widen it to a mininum of 30 feet. ,Tou would have to move your
b~Tdings closer together. I hope you understand thaththis
comes to us for our suggestions and approval and we can't say
that you have~,~k~t~i~t.~, ~ We are trying to work in cooperation
w~th all the d
Southold Town Planning Board -a4-
March 1~ 1966
WALTER KAPP~ ESQ.: Personally~ I thinkthat the one way
street idea is pretty good.
THE CHAIRMAN: It would give more room for parking, He
won't have to have these circles ~ointing to map).
WALTER K~PP~ESQo: He wan~s the circles. There is a
little ,walk-there sot hat the people don~t step right out on
the road.
THE CHAIRMAN: It was our opinion that one waywould make
much better access.
MR. UNKELBACH: The only thing I am concerned about is the
five foot set back. What about snow removal?
MR. YOUNG: I don~'t like this. We are making the smme
mistakes that~were made 40 years ago.
WALTER EA~:~ESQ.: In what way?
MR. TOUNG: Too narrow roads. People are going to park
along the curb, There is going to be a mess here~ it isn't
going to be very'goodplanning, Wehave the same type of
thing in Gardiners Bay Estates. The original owners of the
lots have all died and now the people want'the roadstaken
care of and snow removal. We have the same thing up at Camp
Mineota, Lupton~s Points Cleaves Point, The property holders
have to maintain the roads, Another one is CalvesNe~ ~hey
are all two ro~l roads. ,.That is nothing more than a cow path.
Iwill register a negativevote for anything less than 5'0 foot
roads. I am sitting on the Planning Boardto givemy experience
and knowledge to the Town of Southold. That is the way I feel.
I will'vote negative on anything less than 50 feet. I don~'t
want to be arbitrary but when you say these narrow roads are
okay'I can't agree. We had'the same thing inM~neola~ now
they'are t~aring down buildings to ,make parking spaces. Are
we going to have the same thing happen here? Not if I am
on the Planning B~ard.
Southotd ToWn Planning Board -5-
March 1~ 1966
THECHAIRMAN: I agree with you as far as subdivisions are
concerned, but this is approval of access.
MR. YOUNG: This is the same'thing. There has to be a road
in front of the property.
THE ~: This is one which we have no authority over.
MR. YOUNG: I am not going to have my name attached to a
recommendation I don~t believe in.
WALTER KAPP~ESQo: There is one thing I would like to call
your attention to Mr. Young~ we have a parking area that will
be used.
MR. YOUNG: Don~t think that I don~t think this is a very
good thing for the Town of Southold. If you were sitting in
my chair and~had the same experiences I had~ you would feel
the same way.
MR. UNKELBACH: ~here is another problem~ what's going to
happen when the ownership changes hands? W~nat prevents the
new owner from taking the one way sign out.of there in five or
ten years, t agree with Archi. The ca~aership can change.
WALTER EAPP~ESQ.: I don~t know whatMr. Rich will thin~
aboutthis. If the-on~ way street is in operation I think
'anyone would be foolish to change it.
THE CPIAIRMAN: Could we specify that a cDndition of this
approval should be one way streets. Possibilyd~%~w up a legal
instrument bindingthe land to a one-way operation.
MR. UNKELBACH: Whatever the suceeding owner does with the
land he has a right to d~
~HE CHAIRMAN:Covenants could be dre~n up that go with
the land and not with the owner.
MR. YOUNG: You can see what we are up against here. Fir.
Rich isn't going to be here forever. If someone else gets
ahold of it~hey could make a slum out of it.
WALTER KAPP~ ESQ.: A~yone Could make a slum out of it
if they wanted to.
MR. YOUNG: We are sitting on this Board trying the best
way we know how to avoid mistakes that other people have made.
Southold Town Planning Board --6--
March l~ t~66
RAYmOND'DEAN: You C~uld stagger one side l~rking.
THE CHA~= There should be 20 feet clear and no
parking on, the 20 feet.
po further dis~ssion held on the m~9~?oz the
application of Frederick~ Rich for an~ Op~e~~pment
The Planning Board held a joint meeting with the Village
of Greenport-Planning Board to d~cuss the matter of the
proposed annexation to the Village of Greenport. Those
present, from the Vil~lage of Greenport were: John ~Sherwood~
James Monsell~ Harry Monsell,~ Henry Bunce~ Bernard,Van Popering~
and William Quinn.
The map of the proposed annexation tothe Village of
Greenport was laid out for everyone to view. Mr. Sherwood
stated that the GreenportVillage Planning Board.had not
seen the map. He'stated that he saw i~ about three weeks
ago. Mr~ Sherwood felt thatthe property line should be
~st~aighten out .
It was stated that there are 250 acres of land that are
proposed to be annexed. 100 acres of this land is not
taxable.
Mr. Unkelbach inquired aboutthe legal aspectcf this
proposal. There was a question as to whether or not a
referendum'would be required for the annexationof the
property in question.
The Chairman stated that the Planning BOard .wasn't too
concerned about the assessed valuation. He stated that the
Plannin~ Boardis more interested in the Town of~South.old and
the Village of Greenport. The Chairman ~ted that he realized
the Village of Greenport had some very'real problems as far
as expansion is concerned. The Chairman stated that the
Planning Board can only recommend this proposal to the Southold
Town Board. Ho~ever~ The Planning Board can, recommend further
that the possibility of straighbening out some of the p~operty
lines be explored. This would be something the Village Board
and the Town Board would, have to make 1arrangements on. Another
possibility would be to have this proposal voted onin the next
election.
Southold Town Planning Board -7-
March 1~ 1966
Fir, Sherwood stated that 'the propertythat the New York'
Telephone Company building is locatedon is left out of the
proposed annexation, He stated thatthey wouldlike to include
this in the annexation,
Mr, Young asked if the Village of Greenport had first
refusal on the telephone building presently being used. It
was stated that no deal has been made but the village has
asked for first refusal on this property and building,
Mr, Sherwood stated that the Village would like to bring
the property of the Sitvermere Motel into the. Village limits
because the Silvermere Motel needs their sewage disposal system,
The Chairman explained the proceedure onrecomme~ding this
proposal to the'$outhold Town Board, The Chairman fUrther
stated that the.Board felt they should recommend this annexation
as proposed and shown on the map~ and further recommend that
the property lines be straightened out in the interest of the
Village of Greenport,
AnAirial photograph of the proposed annexabion was
presented and all present viewed it.
A discussion wass held on what procedure weuld be necessary
to include these other properties in the Vil~e of Greenport in
o~der to straighten out the lines,
The Chairman advised the Village that there had been an
applieationfor a change ofzone on the corner~-ofthe North
ROad and Moore's Lane, Headvised thata shopping center was
proposed lhere, However~ he pointed out that.~it~wms a very
wellllands~ap~dand very well planed shopping .center, 'If the
property lineS for the annexation of Greenport ~were straighten
out~ this property proposed for a shopping center wouldbe.
taken into the Village of Greenpor~, The Chairman statedthat
the Planning Board felt somewhat'obligated to Mr,~Nelsen, owner
of the property in~ question~ because h~s'.atterney haddiscUssed
very throughly-with the Planning Board the plans for the property,
Mr, Sherwood stated~thatMr, Nelsen would like to comewithin
the Village limits for the sewage system~
The Possibility of having a shopping center~locatedin
Greenport was briefly discussed,
$outhOld TownPlanning Board --8-
March la 1966
On motion by Flr. Moisa~. seconded by'Mr. Grebe~ it was
RESOLV~O: WHEREAS, the $outhold Town.Board has requested
the Southold TownPlanning Board to make a.recommendation~on
the proposed annexation to the Village of Greenport as shown
on the map byrOtto Van Tuyl & Son~ dated October 27~ 19654 and
WHEREAS the Southold Town Planning Boardhas met with the
Greenport Village Planning Board to discuss this proposal,
NOW THEREFORE BE ITRESOLVED that the Southold Town
Planning Board recommend to the Southold Town Board the land
of the Village of Greenport as shown'on a certain map by
Otto Van Tuyl &~Son, engineers and surveyors, dated-October
27, 1965 be annexed within the Village limits oft he Vi~ge
of Greenport;
IT IS FURTHER RECOMMENDED that other lands beginning at
the present westerly Village line 1on the north side of Front
Street [Main Road-StateRoad 23) and running westerly along
the northerly side of said Main Road to the westerly limits
of the Village of G~eenport property'at Pell~s Garage; thence
northerly-to the southerly line of the' North Road !~County Road
no. 27); thence easterly'along the southerly line of said
CountY Road No..27 to the westerly side of Moore~SLane; thence
southerly to a point where a direct extension of-Washington
Avenue would intersect Moore's Lane; thence easterly on the
southerly line of Washington'Avenue extended to the present
Village line. Said lands, not Shownon the aforesaidmap,
should also be included within the Village limits of the
Village of Greenportas soon as all necessary legal steps
can be taken.
Vote of~the Board: Ayes:-'Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisaa Mr.
Grebe~ Mr. Young~ Mr. Unkelbach.
The above resolutionwas favorableto those present
from .the Village of Greenport,
&&&
On motion by Mr. Moisa~ seconded by Mr. Unkelbach~ it was
RESOLVED that the minutes of the Southold Town Planning
Board datedFebruary 15, 1966~ be approved as submitted.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:--Mr. Wickham~ Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young~ Mr.~ Unkelbach.
Southo~d Town Planning Board --9-
MarCh 1~ 1966
The Plann/~'g Board again discussed the application of
Frederick Rich for anOpen Development Areao It was the
· opinion of the Planning Board that at least 24 feet is needed'
for the right of way and the right of way should be made one
way. It-was pointed out that it would be essential to use
the parking area. It was also pointed out that the two
proposed units on the north side of-Southold FireDistrict
andBe~noski would have to be moved further north.
further pointed out that provisions for cam basins would
have tobe provided to take care of the drainage on the
applicant's property. There was a question as to whether
or not adequate parkingwas provided for the number of
dwelling units on the property. This has not been determined
yet. HowardTe~ry~ Building Inspector,~pointed out ~that
this propertyin question has changed ownership several times
in the past year on paper.
It was the feeling of the Planning Board thatit would
be better to recommend this Open~ Development Area favorably
and putrestrictions on it~ rather than to not recommend
this proposal favorabl~.
Tbs Planning Board took the following action:
In the mat~r of the petition of Frederick P. Rich~
Southold, New Y0rkrelativeto an application for an Open
Development Area in accordance~ith-Section 280A of the State
of-New York Town Law, on property located west of the property
of Southold Fire District~on the north side-of MainRoad,
Southold, NewYork, extending north to theLong IstandRailroad
and east to Boisseau Avenue, approximately 6 acres of land
having the metes and bounds set forthin the survey'annexed
to the application~map by Otto W. Van"~Tuyl
Onmotion by Mr. Moisa, seconded by'Mr. Young~ it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board recommend
to the~ Southold Town Board the establishment of said open
development area on said property described above, subject to
the following conditions:
1. There shall be required a mininum-twenty-four ~24) foot
one way right of way~ all paved, in view of the fact that '24 feet
is needed to get into the parking area especially-when the
vehicles will be driven, by elderly people.
$outhold Town Planning Board -10-
-March !~ 1966
2. In view of the ~fact that some of the property in
question has changed ownershipseveral times~on paper~ a
legal instrument should be drawn up to bind the minimum
twenty-four ~24) foot one way right of way to the land
and not to the owner.
3. The two proposed buildings on the north side of
Southold Fire'District and on the northside of propertyof
Bednosky shall be moved further~north in .orderto provide
adequate property line setback.
4.~Provisions for drainagemust be made on the applicant~'s
property.
5, The Planning Board points out that this property
should have been a subdivision~ in view of the fact that all
physical features an~ area point to a subdivision.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:--Mr. Wickham~ ~r. Moisa, Mr.
Grebe®Mr, Young~Mr. Unkelbach.
In view of the fact-that ~e Highway"Specifications of the
Town of $outhold have- been amended;
On motion by Mr. Moisa, seconded by'Mr. Grebe~ it was
RESOLVED thattthe Rules & Regulations for the .Subdivision
of'Land, Town of Southold be. amended as follows:
1. By amending Section 5 IMPROVEM~NT .~ Item2 to
read:
SECTION-5 "~//HPROVEMENTS,"~ ITEM 2: Ail streets shall
conformto the HighWay/SpecificatiOns of the Town Of-Southold.
IT WAS FURTHER RESOLVR~ that a publichearing beheld on
the above proposed amendment at 7:30P&'~ ~E~S~T.}~ Tuesday~
April 5~ 1966~at the To~n OfficeaMain Road~ Southold~
Vote ofthe Boardk Ayes:Mr.. Wickham~-Mr. Mo~is$, Mr.~Grebe~
Young~ Mr. Unkelbach.
Mar~h 1~ 1966
Southold Town Planning Board -11-
The Southold Town Planning Boar received notices of amendments
to the Riverhead Town Zoning Ordinance and the Southampton Town
Zoning Ordinance. Said amendment notices were placed on file.
A letter was received from James ~. Manning in regard to
the dedication of the highways at Race Point Corp. .Mr. Manning
said that the building located on Reservoir Road would be
removed in the near future and .would like action to be taken
on the other roads at Race Point Corp. ~or deal/cation.
On motion by Mr. Grebe~ seconded by Mr. Moisa. it .was
RESOLVED that a letter be written to James. P. Manning
advising him that the Planning Board felt it would be better
to wait until the building is actually.removed~from Reservoir
Road~ then dedication for all the highways at ~ace HointCorp.
couldbe taken care of at one time.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Mr..Wickham~ ~Mr. Moisa~ Mr.. Grebe®
Mr. YQung~ Mr. Unkelbach.
The Chairman advised the other membm~s of the Board that
he hadtols William~Wickham~ Esq that the Board, wouldreach
some d~cision on the matter of the proposed ch~n'ge~,0fZ~ne
on the property of Peter Harve~'Dury~Estate. W~lilamlwickham~
Esq. has a client who is ir~rested in ~pening a gasoline
station at th~ location. The Boardviewe~the bax'-map and
considered the adjoining properties. It was pointedout
that the~was no business property adjoining th~spzoPer~y
oracross"the str~' from this property~ Therefore achange
of zone in this location could constitute spot zoning. It
was also pointed out that thereis a ~gasoline ser~cestation
located approximately 2~000 feet easterly of this property on
the same side of.the road. This property in question is also
located approximately 200 feetfroma churhh. It, was-pointed
Gutthat 'all business operations must be-locatiOn a certain
distance from a church.
It was.agreed 'that a letter be written to William~Wickham
Esq advising him that in view of-the fact'that the ~roperty
inquestion is located near a church~ and a min~,mum distance
must be kept from-the'church~ it,is ~unadvisable to, use this
property for the purpose, intended.
SoutholdTown Planning Board
-12-
March 1~ 1966
Mr. Rod Van Tuyl presented to the Board a prelimi~ary
map of~Eastern Shores at~Greenport, Section V. This section
is lOcated te the south of~Section'IV of Eastern Shores. This
parcel contains approximately 15 acres and has 27 lots. It
was pointed out that this property slopes from north to south.
The elevation runs from 40 to about 20. The applicant~'s would
like tentative approval on this subdivision inoorder to commence
construction of the roads.
On motion'byMr. Moisa, secmnded by Mr. Grebe~ it 1was
RESOLVED that tentative approval be given to the :
to beknown as Eastern Shores at Greenpozt~ Section Va locat~
at Greenport~ Town of. Southold~ Suffolk~County, New York~
consisting of'a parcel of land 14.96 acres, owned and developed
bYH.'J,'S2 Land &.DevelopmentlCorp. and J.'M~S. Land &Development
Corp., map byOtto'W. Van Tuyl &'Son, dated December 22, 1965.
Vote oft he BOard~ Ayes:- Mrj. Wickham, Mr. ~oisa, Mr.
Grebe~ Mr. Young~ Mr. Unkelbauh.
The next regular'meeting of the Southold Town Planning
Board_will be held at 7:30 P.M~', Tuesday, April 5~ 1966, at
the Town. OffiCe~ Ma~n Road,-Southold~ New York.
The meeting was adjourned at 10:30
Respectfully submitted,
Barbara C. Dittmann, Soeretary
Southold .Town Planning Board
JOHN WICKHAM.~ CHAIRMAN