HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-07/02/1962Southold Town Planning Board
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N.Y.
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickh~rn, Chairman
Henry Mols~
^lfred Grebe
Archibald Young
~,X~il li,~ m Unkelbech
MINUTES
SOUTHOLD TOWN' PLANNING BOARD
July 2, 1962
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was
held 7:30 P.M., Monday, July 2, 1962 at the Town Clerk Office,
Main Road, $outhold~ New York.
There were present: Messrso Archibald Young, Acting Chairman,
Henry Moisa, Alfred Grebe, William Unkelbachand John Wickham.
Also present: Messrs. Otto~W. Van Tuyl, Consultant, Howard
Terry, Building Inspector, Herbert Rosenberg, Board of:Appeals and
Fred Young, Businessmen's Association.
The Planning Board received from the Town Board a letter
requesting their of~ficial report relative to the petition of
Edwin H. King, Orient, New York requesting a change of zone from
"A" Residen%iak. and AgTiculturat District to "B" Business'District
on cdrtain real propertysituated at Orient, New York, and more
particularly bounded and described as follows: Beginning at-a point
of deflection in the Southeasterly line of Narrow River~Road where
said line is intersected by the boundary line between land of George
W. Hallock and land of Edwards and Gillespie; running thence along
said boundary line S.62°07'E. 165 feet, more or-less, to ordinary
high water mark of Hallock~s Bay; thence, along saidordinary.high
waterlmark of Hallock's Bay southwesterly about 350 feet and then
southeasterly about 260 feet to a point about 10 feet southeasterly
Southold Town Planning Board -2-
July 2, 1962
from an old marine railway; thence along otherland of George W.
Hallock, two courses as follows: (1) S.35°43'00"W. 80 feet, more
or t'ess; thence (2) S.41~58'30"W. 221.79 feet to the easterly line
of Narrow River Road; thence along said line of Narrow River Road,
two courses, as follows: (1) N.39°43'50"~. 183.72 feet; thence
(2) N.21°48~40"E. 465,10 feet to the point of beginning. Containing
about one and one-half acres. Map of land surveyed for Edwin Ho
King at,Orient byOtto W. Van Tuyl &.Son dated November 10, 1961.
Mr. Edwin King appeared before the Board to answer any questions
they might have.. He stated that he wishes this change of zone for a
boat basin and marina facilities usually incidental to a marina as he
wishes to have light restaurant facilities.
The Planning Board, on motion of Mr. Young,. seconded by Mr.
Grebe,
RESOLVED that the members of the Board investigate this property
and make their report at the next meeting.
Vo~e of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Young, Mr. Grebe,
and Mr. unkelbach.
A map of a proposed subdivision on Bayview Road'by Rene Gendron
was received by the Planning Board. Mr. Gendron wished the Planning
Board to study the map and advise what changes they wished before
he filed a final application to the Boazd. The proposed subdivision
would contain 18 lots and they would all have public water.
After studying the map and discussing same the Planning Board
decided .that the turn-around should be located at the easterly end
of the private road coming in from South Harbor Road in the area
marked recharge basin on the map. That would make it possible to
realign the lots so that there would be a minimum of 100 ft. frontage
for each.
~%.metion on the above findings was offered bylMr. Moisa,
and seconded by Mr. Grebe ,
RESOLVED that~Mr. Rene Gendron be advised of the BoardJs
recommendat'ions on his proposed subdivision map.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Young, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe
and Mr. Unkelbach.
$outhold Town Board of Planning -3-
July 2, 1962
(Mr. Geh~ron was advised of the Board's findings the fot~ew-~
ing day and he was very much in agreement and stated he would
revise the map and submit same at the next meeting of the Ptann~ing
Board.)
On mo%ion of Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Young, it was
RESOLVED that the minutes of the meeting of May 28, 1962
be approved as read.
vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Young, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
and Mr. Unkelbach.
The next matter before the Planning Board was the proposed
amendments to the ZoningOrdinance relative to signs. Mr. Howard
Terry~reported that~Mr. Wickham and he had met with the Businessmen's
Association and discussed the situation. It was suggested at that in
time that pOssiblyRoute 25 should be turned into a local.%~affiC
road and business signs to be erected ateng Route 25 at certain
distances apart and certain distances from residences and businesses.
Route 27A should be ~ept elear of unnecessary clutter-and signs.
The following letter from the Board of Appeals to the Planning
Board was read:
"June ~9~ 1962,~outhold Town~ planning Board, Southold, New York.
Gentlemen: With the thought that our experience with sign
app~t~ons during the last five years might be of service to your
Board 'while you are proposing amendments the following facts from
our records are submitted:
"Beginning about two weeks after3A~ri1 23, 1957 when the Ordinance
became effective we have ~eld approximatelYill hearings respe~tin~
signs.
9 Real Estate, usually on lots to reduce sign setback.
37 ~o~el, mostlyoff~Premises'
9 Restaurant, mostly off premises.
4 Marina, mostly off premises.
16 Church, mostly offpremises-
3 Billboards, mostly off premises.
33' Local businesses, on premises and off.
13 dsnied 98 granted.
Southold Town Planning Board
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July 2, 1962
"The Board of Appeals is legally bound.~.D~y the standards s~t
forth in the Ordinance~ Article VIII, Section 80lA, Subsection C,
which may not be altered or varied.
"The largest day by day business in this township is that which
caters to the .public, permanent or temporary residents and transients.
The Ordinance was enacted to promote the health~ safety, morals and
general welfare of the Town of!Southold. The government of Southold
both elected and appointed.are in general agreement that the signs
granted by special exception were for the welfare and public interest.
"The most active public participation has been at hearings held
in connection with signs and without exceDtion the opposition to off
premises large signs has been expressed in no uncertain terms.
"The Planning Board is quite familiar with the history to date of
the five year sign grace period. Up to the very recent time all
agencies of the town government ha~e expressed themselves in favor of
enforcing the Ordinance at the expiration of the ~ive year period.
"Ail responsible groups and appointed committees were either
unanimously or overwhelminglyin favor of enforcement whenever the
question was studied.
"There have been less than ten applications from business firms
during the past five years for off'premises signs. The Board of
Appeals fails to see any reason for a change in the Ordinance wherein
ample provision is made for relief if conditions warrant.
'However,! if you~'Board feels that the off premises [gn termed
by us directional signs, containing
advertising~ are considered discriminatory and unrea~sonable an~-~ifavoring
firms to transient trade then ourBoard suggests that~ AD%icle
IV, SectJ )8 have added Subsection D to read more or less as
follows:
,,One~,~.f~.'p~emises sign in any.~is~iet advertising only tbs. ?
business cOndmC3hed on the premises of the applicant-- signto be no
larger than ~'feet in length-and 4 feet in height~ ~lower edge not
lsss than 3 feet above ground level of the front property line~
upper edge not to extend more than 12 feet above the ground level of
the front.property line, at least 5 feet back of property lines.
"(D0uble face if desired ? illumination permitted ? )
"No sign other than directiona~ within 75 feet of an intersection
Southold Tc~n Planning Board -5-
July 2, 1962
or closer than 500 feet to a dwelling or othe'r sign - all permits for
one year. This will allow for change in conditions~
"The Board of Appeals has found a sign 6 feet by 4 feet satisfactory
to all concerned. We have had applications for business signs from
2 feet by 2 feet. Two successful motels have reduced their~signs to
5 feet by 2 feet and found that sign satisfactory.
"Originally we granted signs much larger and grm~da!ly reduced
them when we learned that many applicants requested smaller signs.
"It should not be necessary to remind anyone that whatever
detracts from the good appearance of Southold is against the
expressed intent of the Ordinance and the wishes of the residents
and the success of the merchants. The blighted areas west of
Southold Town are too well known to mention further.
"We are all familiar with the refusal of the town authorities
to remove signs placed on town property in defiance of State Law
and in violation of Town Law. Surely this is according special
privileges to a few chosen people.
"The great weakness of our Ordinance is lack ~f~enforcement.
The findings of the Board or'Appeals are constantly flouted and
no action is taken. Deliberate violations of the Ordinance may be
observed daily and disregarded by authority.
"The Planning Board and Board of Appeals have a common goal -
to enforce fai~ythe mandate of the people - to make Southold Town
a more attractive place to live and work and prosper and where all
residents shall be treated equally. This is the purpose of comprehensive
zoning.
"Very truly yours, /s,/ Robert~W. Gillispie, Jr., Chairman,
SoutholdTown Board of-Appeals."
The following report on-roadside signs prepared by a committee
from the Southold-Peconic Civic Association.September 29, 1961 was
read;
"Report on Roadside Signs
By the Committee appointed 24.August 1961
To the Southotd-Peconic Civic Association.
29 September 1961.
Southold Town Planning Board -6-
July 2, 1962
"Because of the great interest and importance of this problem
in our town your committee was appointed to look into it and make
recommendations for the future benefit and welfare of the community
at large. It did so in a survey of the main thorfares of the Associa-
tion area (Skunk~Lane - alias Bay Ave. - to Albertson Lane) on Sept.
12, and again on Sept. 20 to arrive at an opinion, but on account of
the divergent views of the members found this rather difficult. The
results may be summed up as.follows:
"t~ Existin9'C0nditions. At present, with the exception of
certain areas, SOuthold seems reasonably free from the commercial
sign blight. Special comments were made, a), on the number of overly
large realtor's signs, b), on the overcrowding with signs of all
descriptions of the Arshamomaque area to the extent that it has
become wholly unattractive inspite of its historic importance, and
c), certain objectionable signs in Southold Village in contrast
with the suitability of others.
"2. Present Regulations. UnderourZoning'Qrdinance certain
signs are permitted. In Residential and Farming areas, small
professional signs and well regulated "For Sale" signs pertaining
to that'property only. In Business areas, signs up to approximately
80 square feet advertising only the business conducted on that
property. All other signs to be removed five years after the
effective date of the ordinance, unless an exc~pt~Dn is granted
by the Board of Appeals.
"3. General Comments. Removal of signs as propose~ under the
ZQning Ordinancewould greatly enhance the appearance and character
of'our town, thereby making better impressions on both ~is,itors,
~mmer residents~ and prospective residents, which would tend to
increase intangible values and general business in, the l~ong run.
Your committee feels~ however, that some signs have a legitimate
place in the area economy, provided that they are not. objectionable
in size, character'or location; particularly those that direct
v~itors to eating places, hotels, motels, etc., which provide a dual
service to both the business and prospective customer.
"Large billboards for display advertising are particularly
objectionable in all towns that take pride in their character~and
appearance.
"4. Recommendations. In view of the complexity of the problem
and the ~act that the committee does not feel that the present regula-
Southold Town Planning Board
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July .2~ 1962
tions fully cover some conditions it recommends that this situation
be referred to the Planning Board for further study, with the following
suggestions:
"a). That all future permitted signs be limited in size and
number per advertiser.
"b.) That the present size of permitted business signs be further
restricted in the future.
"co
"d.)
reduced.
That locations and spacing be properly planned and controlle~
That the size of signs within village limits be drastically
"e.) That careful consideration be given to the merits of the
case for some of the larger and better signs now in existance.
"Appended to 'this report are a few photographs covering some of
the points discussed.
"Respectfully submitted - Roadside Sign Committee. /s/ Edwin
M. Prellwitz, Theo. O. Bittner, Stephen E. Campbell."
Pictures as follows: "Solid View of'Signs - Approaching
Arshamomaque from So~thsld." -- "Type of signs suggestive of an
industrial area (Closer View of one above.)" -- "Sign marring
view in Arshamomaque Inlet (Mill Creek) Area." -- "Signs in a
less objectional area, but still overly large." -- "Example of
an oversized, and therefore objectional, Realtor's sign."
Hll present thoroughly discussed the size, location and limitation
for signs, taking each item separately.
After considerable study and discussion, on motion of. Mr. Young,
seconded by Mr.lMoisa, it was
RESOLVED that the following letter be forwarded to the Southold
Town Board:
"Town Board, Town of. Southold, 16 South Street, Greenport, New York.
Gentlemen: The:Southold TownPlanning Board respectfully recommends
the following amendments to the Zoning'Ordinance:
"A new section to be known as section 4~ (d). Off premises
Southold Town Planning Board -8-
July 2, m 1962
advertising signs to be allowed to advertise the business of the
Southold Town applicant. Such signs to be allowed only in business
districts; no closer than 400 feet from any other signs of this type~
nor within 300 feet of a residence, nor within 75 feet of an inter-
section.
"Not more than two off premises advertising signs will be allowed
in this Town to any applicant and each sign shall not exceed a maximum
of 36 sq. ft., nor be longer than 10 ft., nor higher than 6 ft. It
shall also conform to setback and maximum height above ground.
"(e). Signs for directional purposes only and having no advertising
will be allowed to Southold Town applicants in any zone up to a total of
three in the Town. Each sign shall not exceed a maximum area of 24 sq.
ft., nor be~ more than 8 ft. long, nor more than 6 ft. high. It shall
also conform to setback and maximum height above ground.
"If desired the applicant may instead of having three directional
signs as provided in this section, ~ave only one such sign and i~
addition only one'6ff premises adveitising sign in a business zone
provided for in this previous section.
"Th~s suggested amendment has been arrived at after discussion
with representatives of the Businessmen's Association and a meeting
with their members. Ithas the unanimous approval of the Planning
Board, Mr. Rosenberg of the Board of~Appeals and Mr. Fred Young of
the Businessmen's Association; present at the Planning Board meeting
on July 2, 1962.
"We believe that this amendment should be accompanied by a policy
of extending the "B" Business zones of the Town, particularly along
Route 25 with the thought that this should become the business section
· and the Middle Roadarea should be maintained insoEar as POSSible free
of business zoning and available for high speedand limited access
travel.
"It is our belief that liberalizing off3premises advertising,
possibly under an annual permit system, will solve most of the major
problems in which we are now involved. It has been pointed out
repeatedly that over 75% of the present non-conforming signs would
easily be made conforming - often simplY by moving them a few feet.
"The Planning Board in recommending this action would be glad of
Southold Town Planning Board -9-
July 2, 1962
an opportunity either collectively or individually of discussing
this further with the members of the Town Board.
"RespectfUlly submitted, /s/ JohnWickham, Chairman, Southotd
Town Planning Board."
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young, and Mr. Unkelbach.
(Ail others present unanimously agreed on the proposed
amendments.)
The next meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board will be
held 7:30 P.M., Monday, August 6, 1962, Town Clerk Office, Main Road,
Southold, New York.
Meeting adjourned at 11:30 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Judith T. Boken, Secretary