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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-02/17/1960Southold Town Planning Board -~OUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y. PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS .John '~(/ickham~ Chairman Henry Moisa Alfred Grebe Archibald Young William Unkelbach ~NUTES ~outhold To~ Planning Board FebroRry 17, 1960 A regular meeting of the-8out~old To~a Planning Board warn held 7:30 P.M., Wednesday~ February 17~ 1960 at the To~. Clerk Office ~ M~in .Road ~ 8outhold ~ N~ew York. ~nere were present: ~Messrs. John ~ickham, Chairman~ Henry Moisa~ Alfred Grebe~ Archibald ~o~ng~ and William Unkelbach. present. Messrs. Howard M. Terry~ Build~ug Inspector~ Otto W. Van TuYl~ Consult~ut~ and Harold Price~ Highway S~aperintendent. Also the following interested individuals were present at this meeting: 'W'illiam Beebe~ Joseph Deerkoski~ Corwin Grathwoh!~ Fred ~eli~ James Grath'~ohl~'Walter Luce~ Harry ~son~ George McCarthy~ Chester Orlows~ George Pernay Iii~ 8ta~ey-SledJeski~ Anthony- ~tagnitta~ Joseph 8tagnitta~ Huil Tuth~ Wilson Tuthill~ Willism Wickham~ and~ George Williamson. · MR. JOBi~WIC~ Chairman~ ~outhold~oWnp!arna~g Board: Before anyone else speaks I would like to make thefollo~tlng statement for the record. Yesterday Mr~ Van Tuyl and I met with the ~uffolkCounty Board of Health~ Dr. Overton~ }zm. ~outhold Town Planning Board ~2~ February 17~ 1960 Villa ~ud Ma. Davids and we spent from 10:30 A.M, to 12:30 P.Mo discussing the problems w~ich arise ~en the minimum requirements for subdivisions in the~County of Suffolk are 20~000 sq. ft. and the minimum requirements for zoning in $outhold Town are 12,~00 sq. ft, W~ tried to outline t~ them that -~e had a particular problem here where the require- ments seem more stringent than on any other to~ in the Couutyo 0~ minim~ of 12~00 sq. ft. is higher than mar~y of the towns we know of further west and o~ population is relatively stable with an increase of only l~ per year for the past ten years indirect contract to wester 8~folk~ In the main our problem was further simplified by the fact ~ have a general single line of dwelling around the salt ~ater inlets and bay fronts and tb~ movement of soil and ground water from underground reserve to salt water was through a single layer of water supply and sewage disposal and this again was in direct contrast to the ~eestern end of the County. They said when they approved a subdivision it was good for ~0 years and they had to!ook to the future~ that they were of no mind to change or reduce the minimum size, in fact they would be inclined to increase it and expect in two years it would be increased. ~fnen ~ completed the two hours there both ~. Van Tuyl and I felt that we had not accomplished a thing but to clear in our own minds that we won't be able to move them. lv~. VAN TUYL~ Consultant: I asked all three if we couid state that they were decided unam~mously in the positiOn that they would not reduce the requirements of 20~000 sq. ft. per lot and I recall that all said yes, and they-would be in back of it and. we would not be responsible for it~ it was a Board of Health matter. ~.. WICF~LM: I~e explained to them the pro"a!am w~ich arises ~hen ald~velopmen% ils backed up to a si~ie lot or a groUp~0f.le~s than five lots which can be sold ~m~ building ~ermi~s~issmed wit~ ~ min~_._u~of 12~00 sq. ft. an~ they ~reedthat it was! ~iffic~lo position and. s~gg~s'~ed that we o~ht~to do One of~'t~o things: We ought to go ~o aminim~.~m of 20~000 sq..~fC, in,the To~n of $outhold or have municipal Water and se~e disposal, one or the other. We told the~ . what 'we thOUght of mtmicipal water for most of our communitzes. I~ wo~d be a relatively simple matter ~.n Mm~ttitmck~ but to develop the water front with any~type of water suPPiy~iS out of the question, They said if it is out of the question as you say~ there should be no question but that you ough~t to Protect the To~m by having even larger minimumzoaing xequire- merits. They have had in the recent past, quite a £ew complaints off water supply contamination in Southold To~m and quoted cases where there ~s found sodium arsenite used for killing potato vines in Southold To~m. They stated that they had talked with the ~upervisor and wanted to get with the~ Town Board at the $outhold Eo~n Planning Board -3- February 17, 1960 next meeting and discuss this problem themselves. They have a lot of cases behind them adjudged in their favor. MR. GEORGE PENNY III~ i4attituck~ Raw York: That makes the low priced lot a thing of the past. People will go to other areas where the lot sizes are smaller. Don't you thirdm that the Board of Health is overlooking the fact that detergents is our main problem here? I~R. ~C~[~mA~: They say that is not necessarily so. They cite semi,mm arsenite. PLR. VD.N TU~q~: They point out that they made this regu- lation on the 20~000 sq. ft. per lot before this came up about detergents. ~R. ST~2~L~WYST~WDJESi<!: MattituCk~ New York: Mr. Sledjeski asked about Riverhes~d and. Southampton and he was advised that they are all ~3nder the same regulation of the Health Department. ~. JOSEPH ~TAGNITTA~ Mattituck~ New York: How do they feel the 20~000 sq. ft. will reduce the sodium areenite condition? 14R. WICKYJ~M: They have made tests to determJ~ue this sodium arsenit~ condition and the area of soil it affecta. l~q. STAGNITTA: It looks like they are going to establish the zoning from now on. ~q. WIC~fAM:' The V.A. and F.H.A. started out with a higher m~nimum than the Co~_uty of Suffolk. FL~. Fg~VJD ~IN~ Cutchogue~ New York: How dorestrictions apply with relation to business lots? I~. H~APO M. TERRY~ Bumlazng ~s~ctor: They apply prim~ily to residenti~ lots. ~. ~C~M: ~ery ~dustrial building and every m~tiple residence building must have approval of the Labor Deponent and He~th Depar~ent ~d on a ~ty Road it has to go t~o~h the Co~u~ High%~ Department. ~. p~Z: In other words~ if you w~ut to divide the best thug to do is not file for it~ just go alaead ~d do it on ou~ O%~ · ~. WICk: ~.e Plying Bo~d prim~ily comes ~to this on a hi,way question. We had to take steps to protect selves ~u the T~ of 8outhold~ protect aga~st developers who Eouthold To~ Plannf_ug Board -4- February 17~ 1960 were .coming into the Town and had no respect for our regulations. ~.~e felt that our regu&ations were reasonable and Were going to be s-ere they live by them. Now we come into this thing a_ud it is still as far as the Plar,3a~ag Board is concerned 'on a highway basis. This when we do not come int,_t: If the highway is dedicated to the Town~ accepted by the To~n~ taken over by the To~ end there are only a certain limited number of lots sold we say that is not our business~ we have no jurisdiction~ it never comes before us. However~ we are still a Plan_uing Board and concerned %~th the Town of Southold and feel that if it is for the best interests of the To~ to have 20~000 sq. ft. then it will be necessary as far as we are concerned. I~q. H0'~L~qD ~d~Y: I have talked with some building inspectors from other to-~ns~ Brookhaven~ Istip: etc. ~ and they have assured me they will not consider an application unless -- subdivision application unless it is accompanied by a signed contract from the water authority and forces them to lay water mains regardless of the distance they have to bring it i~, They will not accept an application for a building permit and will not give a~-permit on an unimproved or improved street unless there is a Health Department approval of a private water and sewage disposal system, i ~ant YOU people to know we are not as tough as do~ 'the western end of the County-as you may thLO_ko Also the roads mus~ be stone base ~nd blacktop~ there must be sidewalks: curbs and gutters. MB. STAN~Y SLEDJW~KI: I think the Planning Board is setting their standards up to high and the Board of Health is goLug -=long and putting words in your mouth. MR. VAN TULM~: The Board of Health set the 20~000 sq. ft. requirement in 19~6. MB. B/VEELBACH stated cases where property in Suffolk County was condemned and it was necessary to put in water s~stems. ~Aq. %fILLL~,1%fIC-KHAM~ Mattituck~ New ~ork: For pumposes here we have to agree that the Board of Health is right. I do not believe the Planning Board will make the decision to go to 20~000 sq. f~. it will probably be the Town Board after yo~ir advice and the Board of Health's advice. The Town is goLug to come up with 20i~000 sqo ft. ~hichmJght be a year or two but sometime in the not to diet,ut future. The ~uestion is filing a mao. There have been nfUnerous developments here mud nearby'who-have not filed. Is there going to be ~uy damage if these fellows put in lots with 12~00 sq. ft.? ~. WIC~2~M~ Chairm~u: Persona!ly~ if~you or someone else could come up with some reasonable plan by which we 8outhold Town PlannJ_ug Board -~- February 17~ 1960 could waive filing a map I would 1~ to hear of it. The basic premise upon which zoning wasset up in the Town of 8outhold was a uniform zone for agricultural and residential. ~. TE~RY: I ~o not th~C¢ the To,~n fathers, the Board of Appeals~ Pl~_~_u~ug Board and Town Board has authority to waive State Law. Under State Law $2g0.00 per lot is the fine for selling lots which do not conform. MR. GEORGE McCART}~Z brought up the matter of depth of well points and lots on the four corners in a subdivision. P~, VAN TL~: The Health Department has required test wells for the past five or siK yeses. I have no doubt in my mind that the ones that are enforcing the law are perfectly honest and believe what they are doing is ir_ the best interest of the Co~%ty. It is Co~mty-wide~ there is no doubt about it. 1~. JO~ WICi~qAt~: I think they are leaning over backboards. In?~outhold Totem they have allowed some developments to be approved if they found salt ~0 ft. down~ they allowed them to pull the point back to where the water was good, i believe they are entirely reasonable, I feel sorry for not only you people but also the people ~o work for you and need the work. ~. McC3URTHY~: Under subdivisions they require an arrange- ment of wells so that none will be within 100 ft. of any cesspool. If you do not do that it could make trouble in the fut~sme, I third~ it is a good ~rule. PLa. P~I~Uf: About a year ago I ~nt do~_ with 1@. Grathwo~%l to the To~n Board and stated that a building code was necessary. The To~a said they Would consider it if we got all of the builders and lumber people ~ the To~n to sign. ~e have heard nothing further on it. t~q. JOHN WICIfE~M: I am not in accord with a building code at the present time° I agrae in time itwill be necessary, ~e are a sma1] To-wn with relativeiy uniform groups of people mhd houses and I like to think we can operate our To~ the Town of8outhold Lu a reasonable manner without excessive regulations. Ia m looking at'it from the basis of a person in agriculture and a t~w'payer. li~. A~qCHI~TDYODi~G: Personally I would not l~ke to see a set building code Du~ into effect at the presenttime, I am of the opinion'the minute we try to enforce a buiid~g code we have to have more t~es to operate it, I wo~zld like to See us go along as we are at the present ti~e ~aad avoid that necessary expense. iriS.. %E~,BACH: The banks and F.H.A, require that the Bouthold To%,~ Pia~naing Board -6~ February 17~ 1960 the codes and Board of Health regulations be complied with before grantLng a mortgage. Pk. %~T,T,~_M WICEI~3~M~ Is the protection we are insisting on for the Town of Southold in zo~ ing ~orth the cost in hard- ship to the builders~ farmers~ developers~ time lost~ business you might have gotten~ tying up men. Today we would say not, it is not worth it until we get this straightened out. %Fnen you start to control somethi~ you must figure very carefully the cause. ~R. JOHt~ WIC~U~.~: ~ could take the steps of you developers developing the land~ you construct the highways~ turn them over to the To~n Highway Department~ get it accepted~ and come to the building inspector with a request for a building permit for not more than two lots a year. You by~ass the Planning Board completely. ~. ¥~ILLi~/~ WICKHAi{: Ho%~ver~ that is not a oermanent solution. Sooner or later the Planning Board and ~oard of Appeals of the Town of $outhold and the Board of Health is g~ing to get together and the To~n of Southold ~ going to come up With some definite policy. In the interim we are faced with the problem of g~ng ahead with some of these develop- ments and. we do not know what to do until we get the decision of the Town of $outhold. That c~u be three months and maybe a year. According to the real estate law when you divide one or more pieces of property for building sale it becomes a sub- division. ~Kq. JOlmW WICA~L~M: The State Law says one or more. It is my opinion this Board will go by the Bosmd of Health law which says less than five~ meaning fou~ or less. ~. ARCHIBTALD YOUNG: In youm opinion~ what is going to be the areas of the To%aa that is going to be built up first? The main.road~ so~ud bl~aff or bay front? ~. PEN~: I wo~d say the~bay front has been built up ~re~y. MR. JO~W!Ct~}~: I thi~< that once we get into this that the thought that the costs is going to be prohibitive is not going to be true. In the typical layout from 12g to 200 is not disastrous. That would make the typical lot 100 by200. !~. WAI~LUCE: Cutchogue~ New Tork: ~14v is it necessary to j~mp to 20~000 Sqo ft.~ wb3y not l~O00 zq. ft.? ~. JO~W2~ WICiCHAM: The County Board of Health will not give an inch. ~outhold Town Planuing Board -7~ February 17~ 1960 MR. ~J~ G~E: ~Yny not have an open meeting with the Board of Health so that these people may speak-to them directly? ~Ro W~LTAM WI~i: Can we assume that your recommendation to the To~n Board w'~mli be 20~000 sq. ft.? ~Aq. J0~ W!Ci~2~_i~2~i: The Coumty Board o~ Health is going to talk ~ith the Totem Board ~ud explain the p~oblem ao_d recommend 20 ~ 000. ~.. ANTH0h~/ STAGNITTA: %fnen you spoke with the Board of Health did you suggest t~000 s~ud try to reach a compromise? ~q. JO~- WIC~M: The smswer-of the Board of Health was that they tb_ir~ it ~ll be over 20~000 sqo ft. in the near future. t~:~. HULL TUTHILL~_~(attituck~ New York: Prom 19~5 to i9~ we handled V.A. a~d Fon. A. aud in every instance the purchaser must meet the existing regulations at the time in order to occupy the house. ~. JOI~ WICEPTAM: Hull~ ir. s_ny one area about how mauy new accor~uts do you get in a year? ~F~q. TU~H~T,T,: We are disappoim_ted if %~e do not have a IQ%increase a year. I would like to say that Zoning'is the best th~ug that has happened to Southold To%mo At least 60% of the b~se starts are su~er construction in the Town of $outhold. At least 60% of the people were those coming into the area out here. In a survey made by a concern for a County-wide sewage system lg or 20 years ago~ engineers estimated the population of:Suffolk Gounty in 1960 would be 300~00: now it has more than doubled that. iMR. CHEm~TF~R ORLOWSKI~ Cutchogue~ New York: 807~ of my business is for s~m~er people. ~q. CORWIN GRAT~OHL, Cutchogue~ New York: i would say closer to 90~ are su~er people. P~. JOUle WICk: We in Southold To~are extremely fortunate. This iS the~case because generally speak~ug the school problem is the acute problem amd these people do not send children to schools but still pay school t~w~s. MR. JO~PH STAGNITTA: I think you people on the ~!~naing Board have done a very distastful job very commendably. I do not believe anyone here has any grief against you. ~outhold To~n Pls~_uing Board ~8~ February 17 ~ 1960 t~. JOPR~ WIC~_gk~I: The next thing is for the Board of Health to send a representative to the Town Board, !~r. Van Tuyl~ wo~3id it-De a reasonable solution to suggest to some of these peopl~ that they might construct the highways, turn them over to the To%m~ start work on the filing of the map a~ud at %he same time apply for building permits on not more than four buildings with the thought that if the highway has been turned over to the To%a~ the buildir~ inspector could issue the building permits and if there were not more th~u fou~ lots involved we would not' have to consider it a subdivision at that time. Would this be reasonable? MR. VAN Tb~XL: That sounds reasonable and sensible: but sometimes the law is not sensible. If that were the case the lots shown on the subdivision co~d not be numbed_ed.~ ~ At this point the Planning Board resumed their regular meeting~ the interested individuals having left the meeting. On motion of ~{r._ Moisa, seconded by M~. Grebe, and carried it ~s ~RESOLI~D that the Planduing Board hold their next regular meeting on Saturday, March ~, 1960~ 1:30 P.M.~ at the Town Clerk 0f£ice~ 2~n Road, Soutlmold: New York. It was further RESOLI~r~O that the Plant, lng Board request a jo~-ut~meeting with the Board of Appeals and Town Board at 2:00 P.M.~ on the same date. Vote of the Board: Ayes:- ~. %~ickham: ~. Moisa~ Grebe~ M~. Young~ ar_d M~. Unkelbach. On motion of P~. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Moisa ~_ud carried~ it was ~0L~ that a letter be forwarded to the Southold To%.m Board calling their attention to the fact that the Su~folk CoumtyBoard'of Health minim~n requirements for lots in a filed subdivision are 20,000 sq. ft. This is also the mio~mu~ reqnirement~ of both the V.A. andF. H.A. Since %~ are experiencing considerable h~.rdship ~nd friction'between devetopersm~ some of whom are forced to the 20~000 sq. ft. minimum and some of whom~ hy virtue of building on a single lot or an established highway, will comply with the 12~00 sq. ft. minimum required by the Southold Town Buildir~ Zone Ordinance~ we request they consider this problem. ~t the s~me ti~e their presence was requested at the joint meeting to be h~ld March ~ 1960. Vote of the Board: Ayes~- ~;~. Wickham~ ~. Molsa~ Mr. Grebe, Mr. Yo~ng~ ~and I¢~. Unk~lbach. Southold To%aa P!am_uLug Board -9- February 17~ 1960 The Planning Board received a letter from the New York State Federation Of Official Plann~m~ Organizations requesting them to consider membership im this Federation. On motion of Me. Yo~mg~ seconded by I~. l~oisa and carried it was RESOLVED that the Pl~UnLug Board does not wish to ~oLug the New York State Federation of Official Plamning Organizations. Vote of the Board: Ayes:- ~M. %~ickham~ PM. Moisa~ ~r. Grebe~ M~o Youmg~ and l~,Ir. Unkelbach. ~. HowardTerry~ Building T~m_spector~ informed the Plsn~_uing Board that M~. Charles Witherspoon and M~. Robert %~itherspoon had appeared at the $outhold Town Board meeting on February 16 and present a list of proposed amendments to the sign portion of .the BuildLug Zone Ordi~s~_ce. Mr. Terry advised that the Witherspoons would like to-attend a meeting of the Planning Board some t~mme in the near ~uture, The Planning Board again discussed the matter of the petition of ~galter C. Grabie for ~u 0~en Development Area. On motion of ~. Young~ seconded by Mr. Moisa and carried it~as ~0L~ that the planning Board reco~end to the Town Board that the Open Development Area be granted on property of Walter C. Grabie located on Deep Hole Creek~ Mattituck~ New York~ bo-auded north by Elmer Ruland~ east by Weese and Corso, south by Jensen~ Audioun~ and %~st by Rula~ud and 0~Brien. Map of property surveyed for Edm~md R. Lupton situated at Mattituck by Otto W. Van Tuyl & Son sumveyed March 2%~ 1952~ suggested sufodivision ~pril l~ 1952. Members of'.t~e Placating Board have visited this property several times and feet that 1,~. Grabie has made every effort to ~prove the access. This property was purchased at the time the original OrdLuance was in effect ~ere 100 ft. frontage on each lot was not req-oired. In the f~_le is a petition signed by property owners served by this road~ all indicatLug they %~sh it left as it presently is. Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr, Wickham~ PM. Moisa~ Mr. Grebe~ M~. You_ug~ and ~@. U_~kelbaah. The Planning Board received notification from the $outhold To]~n Board that the oetition of Frederick R. ~etcham for a ch~ge of zone from 'iA'~ Residential and Agric~tu~al District to ~B" Bus,ness District was grznted effective February t8, 1960. Notification. was also received that the petition of Lillian Brush for a change of Zone from "A" Residential and Agric'oltural 9istrict to "M" Multiple Residence District was granted effective ~-~bruary 18~ 1960. 8outhold Town Pl~an~ug Board -lO- February 17~ 1960 The minutes of the Meeting of February~l~ !960~ on motion of Y~. Grebe~ seconded by ~. Moisa and carried were approved as read. Vote of the Board: Ayes:- ~M. Wicimham, Grebe, Mm~. Young, and I~M. Umkelbach. Mr~ Grebe again brought up the matter of the zoning of Fort H. G. ~Wright at Fishers Island. The Fishers ISland Ferry District would like to have approval of the aviationfield portion of the property so that they may fix the hanger building and make other improvements. The Planning Bos~d decided that before they do anything further on th±s they would refer it to ~. Otto W. Van Tuyl to have an accurate legal ~escription prepared and it wouI'd then be taken up again at the next meeting of the Planning Board on March ~th. l~ieeting adjoumned at ll:20 Job~u Wickham, ~aairman Respectfully submitted~ Judith T. Boken 8ecretary