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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-08/09/1973-SSouthold Town Planmng Board SOUTHOLD~ L. I., N. Y. 119'71 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS John Wlckham, Chairman Henry M~lsa Alfred Grebe Henry Raynor Frank Coyle MINUTES SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD August 9, 1973 A special meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held at 2:00 P.M,, Thursday, August 9, 1973, at the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York. There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry Raynor; Frank S. Coyle. Also present: Mr. Charles G. Lind and Mr. Ken Babitz of the Suffolk:County Department of Planning; Lefferts Paine Edson, Esq.; Rudolph H. Bruer, Esq. This special meeting was called to discuss cluster development of the Pebble Beach Realty Subdivision located in East Marion, NeW York. it. said that in looking over the layout of the plan, we Feel that there are several deficiencies in We think that it is a matter of layout. Mr. Wickha~ read a paragraph from a letter received from The Suffolk County Department of Planning, dated April 24, 1973, Southold Town Planning Board -2- August 9, 1973 as follows: concept of land development as a means to preserve open space and attain other planning goals." Mr. Wickh~ said that we feel we should utilize wooded areas; everybody gains if we can maintain agriculture. Referring to the Pebble BeaCh t. Mr. Lind asked if the bu~lding line was ~ld bec ~e~t from the top Of the bl~ff. Mr. Wickham res that it is~ and that it had been measured very carefully. H of the bluff on ~he map, and said that ~el t is line is most conservative. Mr. Lind said we have info~mat~on' on erosion now that we d~d not have years ago. Mr. Wickh~m Stated that the Town has ~en working with the Soil and Wa~r C0nServa~ion District., Mr. Lind said tha~ in some place~ We. h&ve an incretion; a little ~it to the west we have ~4 or 5 fo0t ~r0sion. we are not ~sing a f~rmula, we are using rule of thur~b of i0O feet back from the ~luff. We just received a rep6r~ ~rom Stony Brook Departmen~ of Marine Sciences which gives e~0Si~nirates. This is based on ~o points in time, about 100 year~ apart. We only know that in 18!36 the bluff line was ~ere... noWi~'s here. The thing ms to provide protection for people on the shoreline. This is a reasonable approach. Mr. Wick~am said th&t"we have a soecific report from the Soil and Water COnservation District on this. area; c?ndominiums and town ho~sels are out~ Referring to the map, Mr. Babitz said he thought if there were condominiUms:ail the houses could be in ''. ~ thms area, and you could, leave all this area open. It would be a ten times beetler layout~ Mr. Wick~am said ~hat, in this Town at least, the density is very much more liberal in ,M" zone. You are not talking about one family per acre. If we could limit it to one family per acre, we would buy the idea. ~r. Lind said that wi~h the cluster cOncept you can have a build- mng on an individual lot, 20' x 80', but you would have to build row houses. Mr. Wickham said that, architecturally, we are not buying it in the Town of Southold. I have a keen sense of historical value of our Colonial motif. Southold Town ~lanning Board -3- August 9, 1973 Mr. Raynor~stated that we have, more or less, tried to stick with one type Of multiple dWelling in each area. Legally, you can't stop anyone ff~Qm asking for a change of zone, Mr. Wickham said that i~ we had an Architectural Review Board we could make sure that the buildings were colonial in motif. Mr. Lind responded that Architectural Review Boar~s don~t seem to go over too well with some people. Mr. Lind asked if, basically, the !Town felt that single family, detached dwellings, were preferable. Mr. Wickham said that this is what we are set up for, unless the zone is changed, which would allow something like :six and a half units. Mr. Lind said that under present zoning, 100 units could be put on 100 acres but 100 units also could be put on 50 acres or less. The!number of units would not change but the flexibility of housing styles ould change. ~r. Wickham said that if you chang~ the zone o a sane ~nab~ing a density of 6.3 or 6.4, and'the Covenant restricts to o~e unit per acre, %here are some people who might question ithe validity, and feel that in 25 years or so this might be overturned. Whereas, the way it is~ it is clear cut. Mr. Lind isaid that he would like to see a fUture approach with more filexi~ility, without changing the density. If you Put all the ho~ses on one acre, you will have open space. I do realize it'has ~o be flexible to meet the desires of the community i~selif. Mr. Wickham said that the cluster ordinance is mo.s% spe~ifi~c that there must be a Home Owners' kssociation and they m~st kold title on open space, and we usually insist on perpetual ealsement. Mr. Lind said there is a lot of p~essure fe~ individual home sites; the direction is~ from the Sound to the se~; we are faced with a demand for second homes. Mr. Lind a~sked if test borings had been taken and Mr. Mr.' Lind sa~d that there should be some C~n~rol on removal of vege- ration~'. Te!s~ holes would be necessary aslsuming everything else is satisfactory. The first thing that struck me is that the lots are narrow ~nd l°ngl. There was a~so the question of the buffer. efer~g to the map, Mr. Lind said that he was wondering why it ontinU~ thliS Way on a pathwaY to the Ma~n Road on the righ~ hand side; brl the road in here is an awkward s~tUatlon. There is road. I have not walked th~s property. Mr~ Wickham indicated on the map where the existing roadway runs to the beach. Speaking for myself, I would feel that the deVeloper wou~d have no real objection to changing the connections here or here. This is preliminary. If you don't like the way these two lots are located, they can be set off in another place. Our'Highway Department insists on having every road go to the end of the property and there has to be a turn-around. (There was a general discussion of the roads.) Southold Town Planning Board -4- August 9, 1973 Mr. Lind stated that the Planning Department has been pushing cluster zoning very strong, ly, and that Mr. Klein has been pushing it. He ~uggested tha~ maybe there could be some modifications in the Pebble BEach design. Mr~ Wickham said that with lot sales, and indi~vidual owners doing their own building, the Town has. really done very well However, there are a few eyesoZes, but in comparison with developments where the builder is the developer, we have do~e very well. Mr. Lind stated that, basically, there should ~e some modifi- cation in the road pattern's. A long road creai%es problems in traffic. You might want to break it UP a little bit. Mr. Wickham said that we would just as soon have this connection further back. We gave th~ opinion (referring ~o map) that this ought to be he~e, and the parking area here. There would be more room for parking. Mr. Lind said that parking should be provided ~for all lots that~ are 1,2.00 feet from the beach. Mr. Wickham a~sked if one car for every two lots would be reasonable. Mr. Lind responded that that 1seemed to be reasonable, and that the spaceis should be a minimum of ~60 feet wide. Mr. Wickham said that this wasf{set up for 10 silots and 40 cars. Mr. Lind said that he thought it should be set up for 50 cars. He asked if there ishould be any consideration to modify 'the lots so they come in at right angles to the road. Mr. Wickham said that we have no objection to running these perpendicular to the road, or the stree~ line. Mr,~Lind asi about drainage. Mr. Wickham Said that they had given ~ figur~s ~o Char~es Bar~t%~who has a gr~t deal ~nce including drainage layouts for a~ric~ltural land. T~e dele he is going ~ ~ee charnels and say that we wDuld~l look at the drainage swa~es now. Mr~ Lind said that as road ~id~hs go, the minimum road width:is se~ by~ the~ State law,and on a~ ro~d like this you will ~Probabiy need the maximum width, button some of the o~hers Mr. ~ind didn't that~ 34 feet should be required as long aS there is-ample If you have minimum, pavement requirements, cars can Mr, Wickham said that We are n0t allowed by the Highway commission to have anything but Town specifications unless they accept this swale project on Fairway Farms and I don't know if the Town Hig~ay Committee will go for another one. Mr~ Lind said that he~ould like to get a~ay from the box type sump arrangement and try something else. He said he does not go for leaching. Southold Town Planning Board -5- August 9, 1973 Mr. Leo Kwasneski appeared before the Board with a map of Sleepy Hollow Subdivision. Mr. Wickham said that maybe our ~oncept is not valid but, pers0nallyt some of the most attractive places are where the house lots do not go to the waterfront but they have a water view. I have been thinking of keeping a section as park and playground and to have an easement to keep it forever wild. I think we could angle it so t~e third lot could have access. Mr. Lind asked what the ~ighest water level is. He said this should be based on records of the past to see how often this has been flooded. He said that Nissequogue has put meadowland into conservation easement. No vegetation can be disturbed; no cesspools can be built in there. Mr. Wickham said that our easement would follow the same lines; there could be no structures, you can't fill, and there would be a rebate on taxes. I can tell you about this particular Creek; it has narrow channels, and is not connected to Corey Creek. When you get easterly storms, it piles in but it does not build up as high as it does in most creeks. This one has no dikes and has a tremendous area to spread out. I would say that 7 feet would be a maximum. Most of these people want to do a minimum of deepening so they can get a small boat in. If we had under our control 400 feet of creek front, we would feel more lenient. I, personally, feel he should get what he wants. The meeting was adjourned at 3:40 P.M. ~ ~hn ~c~ham, Chairman Respectfully submitted, Marjorie McDermott, Secretary Southold Town Planning Board