HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-08/09/1973-SSouthold Town Planmng Board
SOUTHOLD~ L. I., N. Y. 119'71
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wlckham, Chairman
Henry M~lsa
Alfred Grebe
Henry Raynor
Frank Coyle
MINUTES
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
August 9, 1973
A special meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board
was held at 2:00 P.M,, Thursday, August 9, 1973, at the
Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York.
There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman;
Henry Raynor; Frank S. Coyle.
Also present: Mr. Charles G. Lind and Mr. Ken Babitz
of the Suffolk:County Department of Planning; Lefferts Paine
Edson, Esq.; Rudolph H. Bruer, Esq.
This special meeting was called to discuss cluster
development of the Pebble Beach Realty Subdivision located
in East Marion, NeW York.
it.
said that in looking over the layout of the
plan, we Feel that there are several deficiencies in
We think that it is a matter of layout.
Mr. Wickha~ read a paragraph from a letter received from
The Suffolk County Department of Planning, dated April 24, 1973,
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August 9, 1973
as follows:
concept
of land development as a means to preserve open
space and attain other planning goals."
Mr. Wickh~ said that we feel we should utilize wooded areas;
everybody gains if we can maintain agriculture.
Referring to the Pebble BeaCh t. Mr. Lind asked
if the bu~lding line was ~ld bec ~e~t from the top
Of the bl~ff. Mr. Wickham res that it is~ and that it had
been measured very carefully. H of the
bluff on ~he map, and said that ~el t is line is most
conservative. Mr. Lind said we have info~mat~on' on erosion now
that we d~d not have years ago. Mr. Wickh~m Stated that the
Town has ~en working with the Soil and Wa~r C0nServa~ion
District., Mr. Lind said tha~ in some place~ We. h&ve an incretion;
a little ~it to the west we have ~4 or 5 fo0t ~r0sion. we are not
~sing a f~rmula, we are using rule of thur~b of i0O feet back
from the ~luff. We just received a rep6r~ ~rom Stony Brook
Departmen~ of Marine Sciences which gives e~0Si~nirates. This is
based on ~o points in time, about 100 year~ apart. We only know
that in 18!36 the bluff line was ~ere... noWi~'s here. The thing
ms to provide protection for people on the shoreline. This is
a reasonable approach. Mr. Wick~am said th&t"we have a soecific
report from the Soil and Water COnservation District on this.
area; c?ndominiums and town ho~sels are out~ Referring to the map,
Mr. Babitz said he thought if there were condominiUms:ail the
houses could be in ''. ~
thms area, and you could, leave all this area
open. It would be a ten times beetler layout~ Mr. Wick~am said
~hat, in this Town at least, the density is very much more liberal
in ,M" zone. You are not talking about one family per acre.
If we could limit it to one family per acre, we would buy the idea.
~r. Lind said that wi~h the cluster cOncept you can have a build-
mng on an individual lot, 20' x 80', but you would have to build
row houses. Mr. Wickham said that, architecturally, we are not
buying it in the Town of Southold. I have a keen sense of
historical value of our Colonial motif.
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August 9, 1973
Mr. Raynor~stated that we have, more or less, tried to stick
with one type Of multiple dWelling in each area. Legally, you
can't stop anyone ff~Qm asking for a change of zone, Mr.
Wickham said that i~ we had an Architectural Review Board we
could make sure that the buildings were colonial in motif.
Mr. Lind responded that Architectural Review Boar~s don~t seem
to go over too well with some people. Mr. Lind asked if,
basically, the !Town felt that single family, detached dwellings,
were preferable. Mr. Wickham said that this is what we are
set up for, unless the zone is changed, which would allow
something like :six and a half units. Mr. Lind said that under
present zoning, 100 units could be put on 100 acres but 100
units also could be put on 50 acres or less. The!number of
units would not change but the flexibility of housing styles
ould change. ~r. Wickham said that if you chang~ the zone
o a sane ~nab~ing a density of 6.3 or 6.4, and'the Covenant
restricts to o~e unit per acre, %here are some people who
might question ithe validity, and feel that in 25 years or so
this might be overturned. Whereas, the way it is~ it is clear
cut. Mr. Lind isaid that he would like to see a fUture approach
with more filexi~ility, without changing the density. If you
Put all the ho~ses on one acre, you will have open space. I do
realize it'has ~o be flexible to meet the desires of the
community i~selif. Mr. Wickham said that the cluster ordinance
is mo.s% spe~ifi~c that there must be a Home Owners' kssociation
and they m~st kold title on open space, and we usually insist
on perpetual ealsement. Mr. Lind said there is a lot of
p~essure fe~ individual home sites; the direction is~ from the
Sound to the se~; we are faced with a demand for second homes.
Mr. Lind a~sked if test borings had been taken and Mr.
Mr.' Lind sa~d that there should be some C~n~rol on removal of vege-
ration~'. Te!s~ holes would be necessary aslsuming everything else is
satisfactory. The first thing that struck me is that the lots are
narrow ~nd l°ngl. There was a~so the question of the buffer.
efer~g to the map, Mr. Lind said that he was wondering why it
ontinU~ thliS Way on a pathwaY to the Ma~n Road on the righ~ hand
side; brl the road in here is an awkward s~tUatlon. There is
road. I have not walked th~s property. Mr~ Wickham
indicated on the map where the existing roadway runs to the beach.
Speaking for myself, I would feel that the deVeloper wou~d have
no real objection to changing the connections here or here. This
is preliminary. If you don't like the way these two lots are
located, they can be set off in another place. Our'Highway
Department insists on having every road go to the end of the
property and there has to be a turn-around. (There was a general
discussion of the roads.)
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August 9, 1973
Mr. Lind stated that the Planning Department has been
pushing cluster zoning very strong, ly, and that Mr. Klein has
been pushing it. He ~uggested tha~ maybe there could be
some modifications in the Pebble BEach design. Mr~ Wickham
said that with lot sales, and indi~vidual owners doing their
own building, the Town has. really done very well However,
there are a few eyesoZes, but in comparison with developments
where the builder is the developer, we have do~e very well.
Mr. Lind stated that, basically, there should ~e some modifi-
cation in the road pattern's. A long road creai%es problems in
traffic. You might want to break it UP a little bit. Mr.
Wickham said that we would just as soon have this connection
further back. We gave th~ opinion (referring ~o map) that this
ought to be he~e, and the parking area here. There would be
more room for parking. Mr. Lind said that parking should be
provided ~for all lots that~ are 1,2.00 feet from the beach. Mr.
Wickham a~sked if one car for every two lots would be reasonable.
Mr. Lind responded that that 1seemed to be reasonable, and that
the spaceis should be a minimum of ~60 feet wide. Mr. Wickham
said that this wasf{set up for 10 silots and 40 cars. Mr. Lind
said that he thought it should be set up for 50 cars. He asked
if there ishould be any consideration to modify 'the lots so they
come in at right angles to the road. Mr. Wickham said that we
have no objection to running these perpendicular to the road, or
the stree~ line.
Mr,~Lind asi about drainage. Mr. Wickham Said that they
had given ~ figur~s ~o Char~es Bar~t%~who has a
gr~t deal ~nce including drainage layouts for a~ric~ltural
land. T~e dele he is going ~ ~ee charnels and say
that we wDuld~l look at the drainage swa~es now. Mr~ Lind
said that as road ~id~hs go, the minimum road width:is
se~ by~ the~ State law,and on a~ ro~d like this you will ~Probabiy
need the maximum width, button some of the o~hers Mr. ~ind didn't
that~ 34 feet should be required as long aS there is-ample
If you have minimum, pavement requirements, cars can
Mr, Wickham said that We are n0t allowed by the Highway
commission to have anything but Town specifications unless they
accept this swale project on Fairway Farms and I don't know if
the Town Hig~ay Committee will go for another one. Mr~ Lind
said that he~ould like to get a~ay from the box type sump
arrangement and try something else. He said he does not go for
leaching.
Southold Town Planning Board
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August 9, 1973
Mr. Leo Kwasneski appeared before the Board with a
map of Sleepy Hollow Subdivision. Mr. Wickham said that
maybe our ~oncept is not valid but, pers0nallyt some of the
most attractive places are where the house lots do not go to
the waterfront but they have a water view. I have been
thinking of keeping a section as park and playground and to
have an easement to keep it forever wild. I think we could
angle it so t~e third lot could have access. Mr. Lind asked
what the ~ighest water level is. He said this should be based
on records of the past to see how often this has been flooded.
He said that Nissequogue has put meadowland into conservation
easement. No vegetation can be disturbed; no cesspools can be
built in there. Mr. Wickham said that our easement would
follow the same lines; there could be no structures, you can't
fill, and there would be a rebate on taxes. I can tell you
about this particular Creek; it has narrow channels, and is
not connected to Corey Creek. When you get easterly storms,
it piles in but it does not build up as high as it does in
most creeks. This one has no dikes and has a tremendous area
to spread out. I would say that 7 feet would be a maximum.
Most of these people want to do a minimum of deepening so they
can get a small boat in. If we had under our control 400 feet
of creek front, we would feel more lenient. I, personally, feel
he should get what he wants.
The meeting was adjourned at 3:40 P.M.
~ ~hn ~c~ham, Chairman
Respectfully submitted,
Marjorie McDermott, Secretary
Southold Town Planning Board