HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-12/06/1973Southold Town Planning Board
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y. 11971
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry M o.lea
Alfred Grebe
Henry Rayno, r
Frank Coyle
~{I NUTBS
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
December 6~ 1973
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held
at 7:30 p.m.~ Thursday~ December 6~ 1973~ at the Town Clerk's Office,
Main Road~ Southold, New York.
There were present: Messrs: Henry Moisa, Vice-Chairman;
Henry Raynor; Frank S. Coyle; Alfred Grebe.
Mr. Moisa, Vice-Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:30.
Gary Olsen, Bsq. appeared before the Board on behalf of Fairway
Farms and s~id that he had had a meeting on November 21, 1973 with
Judge Demarest and Mr. John Wickham. The state was contacted to see if
they could just go ahemd and the stale said contrary to what they had
told Mr. Wickham they would probably not permit it. They would have to
apply for a permit and have a hearing and chances are they could not
fill the pond. They can't proceed with the Planning Board unless-they
get th:e pond corrected. The easiest way to expedite the matter would
get them in trouble with the state. On the meeting of November 21st a
solution was suggested which was accepted by Judge Demarest and Mr.
Wickham that they would put up a reasonable bond to show the town that
they will do whatever the final outcome will be. It is a jurisdictional
problem between the state and the town. Mr. Wickham said at that time
it could be scheduled for a final hearing. They are prepared to get
the bond when they know how much it will be.
Sou/hold Town Planning Board -2- December 6, 1973
Mr. Moisa read the following letter to Mr. Wickham from Judge
Demarest:
November 26, 1973
Mr. John Wickham, Chairman
Southold Town Planning Board
Southold~ New York
Dear Mr. Wickham:
Recently I had a conference With Gary Olson, Attorney for
F~irway Farms, concerning the charged violation of the Wetlands
Ordinance. Mr. Olson suggested that Fairway Farms would put up
a Bond to cover any and all expenses that might result from the
charged violation.
I felt that'this would free the Planning Board to hold a
final hearing on the application for a development. I feel that
this would be satisfactory since the area of the development that
is in question is in the playground area and no matter what
eventually takes place, it will have no bearing on the balance
of the d~velopment.
Very truly yours,
/s/ Louis Mo Demarest
Town Justice
Mr. Moisa read the following letter from the New York State Department
of ~nvironmental Conservation:
November 14, 1973
Mr. Russell B. Case
Fairway Farms
Cutchogue~ New York
11935
Dear Mr. Case
Re: Proposed Fairway Farms Subdivision in Cutchogue,
Town of Southold, Suffolk County~ New York
Please be advised that the subdivision of property referenced above
will not require a permit pursuant to Environmental Conservation Law,
Article 25 or Article 15. However, future alterations to lots nos.
15~ 167 17~ 18, and 19 on the proposed subdivision map will have to
file for permits under the Tidal Wetlands Act.
Sincerely yours
/s/ Daniel J. Larkin
Local Permit Agent
Southold Town Planning Board
-3-
December 6, 1973
Mr. Olsen: If we put the pond in the right place we might have a lawsuit
from the state. If we leave it where it is the matter is still pending.
The most sensible solution would be to post a bond or put up a reasonable
amount of cash. Mr. Wickham said the state officials had indicated that
as far as they were concerned to put the pond in the right spot and fill
that portion but he didn't have it in writing. It might take years to
resolve it and it would be in the best interests of justice to let it go
to final hearing and we will bond it to whatever the final outcome is. If
our word isn't satisfactory we will put up cash or a bond and we will
abode by that decision.
Mr. Moisa: Would you agree to give us a written declaration signed by
the owners of Fairway Farms.
Mr. Olsen: I will be glad to get it into the mail tomorrow.
Mr. Raynor: We met these people several weeks ago where I thought we came
to an equitable solution. I understand in the interim that the state has
caused a problem. Presupposing we could resolve the problem, the most
dramatic problem is that alot if fill has been put in the wetlands. It
was the question of legality and changing of the map as to elevations and
quantity of fill put in the wetlands and I haven't heard anyone mention
what they were going to do with it.
Mr. Olsen: In talking to Judge Demarest and Mr. Wickham the only issue
seemed to be the pond and it wasn't the wetlands that were affected so
much but the pond was put in the wrong place. I asked if there was any
other problem and they both said no. Neither Mr. Demarestmr Mr. Wickham
said anything about fill being put in the wetland area and the dikes were
not a problem. They would be happy to fill it in.
Mr. Raynor: The idea of filling the pond was to utilize the excess fill
on the wetland.
Mr. Olsen: Do we hold up the whole subdivide? I don't think the
Planning Board has the right to hold up the subdivision. We felt a
reasonable solution would be to put up cash or a bond but there is no
point in holding up the whole thing because of the pond.
Mr. Raynor made a motion that after receipt of additional information that
the final hearing be scheduled for December 277 1973 without a bond. Mr.
Grebe seconded the motion and it was carried.
Mr. Olsen presented the Board with a copy of a final map and a letter
from Bnvironmental Conservation with regard to Sleepy Hollow. He will
contact Mr. VanTuyl, the surveyor, to prepare copies of the final map so
a date can be set for the final hearing.
Mr. Moisa read the following letter from Bnvironmental Conservation:
. Southold Town Planning Board
-4-
December 6, 1973
November 30, 1973
Mr. Gary Planner Olsen: Esq.
P. O. Box 38
Main Road
Mattituck, New York 11952
Dear Mr. Olsen:
Re: Proposed Sleepy Hollow Subdivision in Southold,
Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York
Please be advised that the subdivision of property referenced above
will not require a permit pursuant to ~nvironmental Conservation Law~
Article 25 or Article 15. However~ future alterations to lots nos.
Il, 12, 13~ 14 and any others which may be within 300 feet of tidal
wetlands or actually have tidal wetlands upon them will require the
filing of permits under the Tidal Wetlands Act.
Sincerely yours
/s/ Daniel J. Larkin
Local Permit Agent
Mr. Grebe made a motion to set the final hearing for the meeting following
the receipt of the final maps, allowing sufficient time for publication.
Mr. Raynor seconded the motion and it was carried.
Mr. Olsen read the following letter addressed to the Southold Town
Planning Board:
December 3, 1973
Re: Oregon View Estates
Enclosed herewith please find five copies of the final plat on the
above captioned matter.
Since the matter of the two entrances and/or exits has not been resolved~
the surveyor has not endeavored to process this plat through the Suffolk
County Department of Health or the Suffolk County Department of Environ-
mental Control. After this matter has been resolved, please so advise
me so that the necessary approval can be obtained and the necessary
print prepared for the final public hearing.
Very truly yours,
/s/ Gary Planner Olsen
The Board instructed the secretary to let Mr. Olsen know when the maps
come back from the County on this matter.
Mr. Moisa informed Mr. Olsen that a letter had been received from Mr.
Dean, Superintendent of Highways, approving the roads re Greenfields.
' Southold Town Planning Board
-5-
December 6, 1973
Mr. Grebe made a motion that the Greenfields subdivision have a preliminary
hearing on December 27, 1973 pending receipt of appropriate documents in
time for such hearing. Mr. Raynor seconded the motion and it was carried.
In re Robert Casola subdivision, Mr. Raynor read the report from the
Department of Agriculture contained in the folder.
Mr. Moisa read the following letter from the Board of Health:
November 21, 1973
Mr. John Wickham, Chairman
Southold Town Planning Board
Southold, N. Y. 11971
Re: Minor Subdivision for Robert
Casola at Orient
Dear Mr. Wickham:
We have reviewed the preliminary and topographic map for the above
referenced project, and cur comments follow:
It is necessary to have at least 8 feet between the water
table and finished grade in order to install a sewage dis-
posal system that will meet our standards.
We require the fill to be placed prior to any approval by
this office~ as we do not want any individual buyer to
have this responsibility passed on to him.
3. We would also require a test well to determine the amount
and quality of water available.
If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact
this office.
Very truly yours,
/s/ Robert A. Villa, P.B.~ Chief
General Engineering Services
Mr. Olsen said as far as the Department of Health is concerned, Mr. Villa
was contacted and he said he would not expect the full acreage to be
filled but only where the cesspools would be. Not knowing where any house
would be located, nothing could be filled and Mr. Villa understood and if
some sort of covenant could be provided that the first floor of the
dwelling would be nine feet it would be a satisfactory solution. It
doesn't have to be now. Two feet have to be added to get to the mean sea
level on the topographic map. Ail of Orient is very low. He would like
a preliminary hearing.
· Sou/hold Town Planning ~ard
-6-
December 6, 1973
Mr. Raynor made a motion~ seconded by Mr. Grebe and carried that a
preliminary hearing be held on December 27, 1973.
Mr. Joseph Saland (El~jah's Lane): We have incorporated the rights of
way. I believe we have done everything we have to do. I would like to
request a final hearing for December 27, 1973.
Mr. Raynor made a motion, seconded by Mr. Grebe and carried that a final
hearing be held on December 277 1973 subject to the approval of the
Superintendent of Highways.
Mr. Raynor made a motion~ seconded by Mr. Coyle to approve the site plan
of Mr. William Grefe on Cox's Lane, Cutchogue, subject to receipt of
sketch plan of present structure and proposed structure at the time a
building permit is applied for. Motion was carried.
August Acres
Mr. Raynor:
Mr. Wetmore:
his intentions are.
What is the reason for the assignment out of the eight acres?
They don't wish to offer it at this time. I don't know what
Mr. Raynor: It will have to come in under a section development.
Mr. Raynor: You created yourself a superblock where you have no inter-
secting roads between Lot 10 and Lot 22.
Mr. Wetmore: According to Stanley~ John didn't want that there because
of that corner. We are giving access out here to the Town property. I
want the plot plan approved and then we will get to the road profiles.
Mr. Corwin: He asked that there be some connection available. They
wanted to tie in with a subdivision to the west.
Mr. Moisa: Will they put city water in?
Mr. Corwin: Yes.
Mr.'Moisa: Call the reserved area Section II and property to be developed
Section I.
Mr. Moisa read the minutes of the meeting of March 28 (page 6) as refer
to Poscillicio which is now August Acres.
Mr. Raynor: Send it ap th the Superintendent of H~ghways for layout of
roads.
Mr. Moisa: He will need profiles for drainage. Have the Highway Committee
look at it before we give approval.
Mr. Coyle made a motion, seconded by Mr. Raynor and carried to send the
sketch plan to the Highway Department for their consideration.
Southold Town Planning Board -7-
Mr. Steve Tsontakis (Peconic Knolls)
Mr. Moisa read the following letter:
The Planning Board
Town of S0uthold
Southold, New York
11971
Gentlemen:
December 6, 1973
November 21, 1973
Re: Peconic Knolls, Inc.
Peconic, New York
Mr. Tsontakis said the Health ~epartment could use the present test wells
on the adjacent property.
Mr. Raynor: Have you solved the problem with the right-of-way with the
neighbors?
Mr. Axien: We have been approached in connection with this right-of-way
and the proposal is to give up the rights-of-way on the lots and we will
receive a right-of-way across Autumn Lane. My wife will be asked to
connect to Autumn Lane. Actually, my wife and myself have the majority
and we are both for it and there are only five others. It is a legal
problem.
Mr. Moisa: We can't advertise for a preliminary hearing until the boundary
lines are set.
Mr. Tsontakis: I am going on a guaranteed survey. If it is incorrect
between a preliminary hearing and final hearing, we have to start all
over again.
Mr. Coyle: This now becomes a major subdivision'.
Mr. Tsontakis: Yes.
Mr. Moisa: I don't think we can set a preliminary hearing yet.
Mr. Axien: We have a title company that insured OPP and myself. There
is an error here in the survey and the title company says out survey is
the correct one. It is off Six feet on the southerly portion and four
feet into our property.
/s/ Raymond Co Dean
Sup't of Highways
Very truly yours,
I recommend that the drainage area be specifically called the
Town Highway Drainage Area.
Southold Town Planning Board
-8-
December 6, 1973
The Board asked Mr. Axien to come to the meeting of December 27, 1973
and bring in his survey and a copy of his deed. Mr. Tsontakis will do
the same.
Mr. William Wickham, Esq. (Estate of Newell M. Muttitt - minor subdivision)
Mr. Moisa: Our next action is to go to the Board of Appeals for a variance
and access on this one.
Mr. Wickham: Do you want us to make the application?
Mr. Moisa: Yes.
Mr. Wickham was told by the Board that he needs a variance on the small
lot which abuts Cedar Lane. One he obtains the variance he must apply for
a preliminary hearing on a minor subdivision. The Board instructed the
secretary to write a letter to the Board of Appeals explaining the
situation.
Mr. Cron informed the Board that concerning the minor subdivision of
Grigonis~ he will send it back when it is filed.
Mr. Cron is not going to submit the additional copies of tbe print of
survey on Cinelli because he has changes he is going to make.
Mr. Cron said he had received the letter written to him from Charles
Lind of the Suffolk County Planning Commission containing the two possible
layouts recommended by them for Orient Point. He dislikes the proposals
of the committee and he will not consider them at all, neither one nor
two.
Mr. Cron: A decision is long since forthcoming on this, We are going
to ride with this one. I am going to take the position you have had it
long enough. I am proceeding on the assumption it is approved because
you have not disapproved it. You have had this map for the sufficient
number of days. We felt we offered a legitimate alternative. We went
to the County first and met personally with Mr. Koppelman and we went into
a zoning change.
Mr. Raynor: Our first step is to send it to the Superintendent of Highways.
Mr. Cron: We had at one time five test holes. They all were examined
by the Health Department and found to be satlsfactory~ We wens down
twelve feet on all of them except at the point~ where we hit eleven feet.
We are going to put in a central water system.
Mr. Raynor: Get the application and go from there.
Southold Town Planning Board -9- December 6, 1973
Mr. Cron: If someone tells me it doesn't meet the requirements, I will
go from there. I disagree with Mr. Lind.
Mr. Raynor: One of the restrictions would be to keep 100 feet back from
ordinary high water mark.
Mr. David Hot/on (Peccnic Homes, Inc.): Edelman and Robertson have some
contention over this land. Kart didn't include it but Mr. Wickham has
filed a lis pendens against the entire piece of land. I will attend the
next meeting.
Mr. Jara Raul (Turtle Creek): Mr. Terry's letter was confusing. This
property~ I came with an idea for a condominium but decided to go along
with a cluster concept. Mr. Terry said remove 20% of the property~
divide by 40,000 and you get the number of lots you can have. The
minimum is 150 foot front. He said you can't mix grid with cluster.
The most desirable property is on the waterfront. We would like to do
the subdivision as agreeable to the town as possible.
Mr. Moisa: One of your problems is going to be with Environmental
Conservation. They have not approved anything below an acre in lots.
Mr. Raul: The Health Department doesn't accept 1/2 acre lots unless
water and sewage are provided.
Mr. Raynor: In order to go to 20~000 square feet or 1/2 acre, you have
to supply municipal water and municipal sewage.
Mr. Raul: The area dedicated to the sewage treatment plant would be
included in the 20% open area~..
Mr. Raynor: I would suggest that you sit down with your clients and
discuss what you want to do.
Mr. Raul asked the secretary to send him a copy of the ordinances re
clustering.
Inlet Bast Estates. Mr. Lawrence, P.M.~ feels that a hill was put in
~rtificially perhaps to cause a catch basin but this will cause someone
who comes to a stop to not be able to do so on ice. The profiles are
inadequate in that it is measured from the center line of the road. It
looks like a dike will be built into a bank. In there somewhere is a
big gully cut in and a big washout. It is blocking off the general
drainage from Krupski's land. He can see the recharge basin being
washed right out.
The Board decided that Mr. Esseks should be informed that he should meet
the recommendations of the Town Engineer.
Southold Town Planning Board
-10-
December 6, 1973
Mr. Tuthii1 presented the bond estimate for Fairway Farms.
Mr. Coyle made a motion to recommend the $32~000 bond on Pairway Farms
to the Town Board. Mr. Grebe seconded the motion and it was carried.
Mr. Tuthill presented the bond estimate for Elijah Lane, Section I.
Mr. Raynor made a motion to recommend the $25~000 bond as presented by
Mr. Tuthill on Elijah Lane, Section I to the Town Board. Mr. Moisa
seconded the motion and it was carried.
Mr. Tuthill presented the bond estimate for Inlet East.
The Board ordered that the estimate be placed on file.
Mr. Ray-nor made a motion, seconded by Mr. Grebe and carried that the
voucher as presented by Mr. Tuthill for services as Professional Engineer
be p~id.
In the matter of the Anne Mason Development, the board decided that they
want:
i. the road as an improved highway built according to town
specifications
2. a statement that the lots will not be subdivided.
The maps of Walt Whitman Federal Savings and Loan were reviewed.
Mr. Raynor made a motion, seconded by Mr. Grebe and carried that the
minutes of the meeting of November 157 1913 be approved as presented.
The Board then read the correspondence and took the following action.
Mr. Raynor made a motion~ seconded by Mr. Coyle a~d carried that the
5ill for the rubber stamp payable to the Long Island Traveler - Mattituck
Watchman be paid.
The secretary was directed to write a letter to M_ETA Systems~ Inc.
informing them of the fee charged for the information they want.
' ' Southold Town Planning Board -11- December 6, 1973
Mr. Coyle made a motion, seconded by Mr. Raynor and carried unanimously
that whereas the same fee as set in 1964 is still being paid the
Professional Engineer for the town and, as additional time is required
because of changes in regulations and~ in view of the number o£ inspections
he has to make and: for the invaluable advice he has rendered when called
up0n~ that the Professional Engineer for the Town shall be recompensed in
the future for bond estimates at the rate of $50 for the fSrst ten acres
and $2 per acre for any additional acreage.
The next meeting was designated for December 27, 1973.
Mr. Raynor made a motion for adjournment. Mr. Coyle seconded the motion
and it was carried. Meeting was adjourned at 11:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Muriel Brush, Secretary
Southold Town Planning Board
~enry Mop, Vice-Chairm