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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-01/11/1973Southold Town Planning Board SDUTHDLD,' L. I., N. Y. 119'71 PI-ANNING BOARD MEMBERS John Wlekham, Chalrraa~ Henry Molea Alfred Grebe Henry Raynor Frank Coyle MINUTES SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD January 11, 1973 A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held at 7:30 p.m., Thursday, January 11, 1973, at the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York. There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry Moisa, Vice Chairman; Henry Raynor, Frank Coyle, Alfred Grebe. Also present: Howard Terry, Building Inspector THE CHAIRMAN: I will call the meeting ~' order on the hearing for the property known as "Land's End Subdivision,' consisting of approximately 35 acres at Orient in the Town of Southold. Henry Raynor read the legal notice of hearing as follows:- Southold Town Planning Board January 11, 1973 NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant to Section 276 of the Town Law, a public hearinq will be held by the Southold Town Planning Board at ~he Town Office, Main Road, Southol~, New York, in said Town on the llth day of January, 1973, it 7:30 o'clock in the evening of said day, on the question of the approval of the following plat: 1. Plat of property owned by Land's End Realty entitled "Land's End", consisting of a parcel of land of 35.553 acres, situated at Orient, In the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York, and bounded and described as follows: BEGINNING at a point on the northerly line of Main Road, 728.35 feet easterly along said northerly line from Plum Island Lane, said point of beginning being the southeasterly corner of land of George L. Young, Jr.,; from said point of beginning running along said land, two courses: (1) N. 0© 20! 40" E. - 400.0 feet; thence (2) S. 820 06' 40'! W. - 179.74 feet to land of Woodhollow Properties, Inc.; thence along said land, along Orient By The Sea, Section I and along land of Lieblein, two courses: (1) N. 0° 20' 40" E. - 516.98 feet to a monument; thence (2) N. 1© 02' 20"~E. - 1300.0 feet to ordinary high water mark of Long Island Sound; thence along said high water mark as measured by the following three tie lines: (1) N. 89° 20' 30" E. 346.22 feet; thence (2) S. 51© 07' E. 398.24 feet; thence (3) S. 32© 51' 40" E. 372.27 feet to land of Wilsberg; thence along said land of Wilsberg, five courses: (1) (2) thence (3) thence (4) thence (5) S. 2© 19' 40" W. - 222.96 feet to a monument on said northerly line of Main Road; thence along said northerly line, two courses: S. 1© 18' 50" W. - 990.0 feet to a monument; thence S. 82° 45' 40" W. - 171.08 feet to a monument; S. 1© 25' 10" W. - 286.06 feet to a monument; S. 82© 50' 20" W. - 70.44 feet to a monument; Southold Town Planning Board - 3 - January 11, 1973 (1) S. 76© 24' 10" W. 432.96 feet; thence (2) Westerly on a cur~e to the right, having a radius of 1009.14 feet, a distance of 10.51 feet to the point of beginning. Containing 35.553 acres. Any person desiring to be heard on the above matter should appear at the time and place above specified. Dated: December 20, 1972 BY ORDER OF THE SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD JOHN WICKHAM, CHAIRMAN PLEASE PUBLISH ONCE, DECEMBER 28, 1972, AND FORWARD TWO (2) AFFIDAVITS OF PUBLICATION TO THE SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD, MAIN ROAD, SOUTHOLD, NEW YORK. Copies mailed to the following on December 20, 1972: The Long Island Traveler-Mattituck Watchman The Suffolk Weekly Times Land's End Realty THE CHAIRMAN: I will read a letter from the Planning Board to the Suffolk County Planning Commission dated January 9, 1973: Dear Sir: Enclosed please find three (3) copies of final map of subdivision "Land's End", N.S Main Road at Orient~ Point, N.Y., together with two (2) copies of road profiles with drainage & grading elevations. You will note that reservation has been made on the rear of lots No 15 & 16 fOr additional drainage if necessary, the land is a gradual slope from sound (the north) to State road (south) and should have no "water traps" or serious drainage problems. A permit for connection to Stake road has been secured by the developers. Southold ~nJPlanning Board January 11, 1973 The enclosed material is to replace submission lost in mail in December. I believe that all items previously discussed have been covered in this map. Yours truly, John WickhaH, Chairman Planning Board THE CHAIRMAN: It has been the policy of this Board never to hold a hearing without a complete file and approval of all ether agencies. At this time, because of the interest of the large number of people it has been decided that we should hold the hearing and recess it. I should like to reverse the usual procedure of asking for th~se who wish to speak against the subdivision and then for those to speak in.favor of it. It would appear there is a great number of people who should like to speak in opposition and perhaps relatively few wishing to speak for it. I will now ask for those w~shing to speak in favor of this subdivision. MR. KROEHLER: I have brought the bond for $100,000 and a list of deed restrictions. I am in favor of this and t want to go on record that we might change the profiles. THE CHAIRMAN: For your information Mr. Kroehler has passed on deed restrictions that the developers are prepared to put on all deeds for the homeowners in this subdivision. The bond will next go to the Town Board and they must send notice of acceptance to the Planning Board and only after that is completed may the Planning Board give its approval. I will turn the bond over to the Secretary. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in favor of the subdivision Land's End? (There was no responce.) HOWARD TERRY: The Planning Commission has acknow- ledged rece~of the papers on this subdivision. THE CHAIRMAN: I will now open the meeting to those who wish to speak in opposition to this subdiviSion. Before we get started, and in the interest of saving a little time, I would like to call to your attention that the Town of Southold under enablihg legislation of the State of New York has established zoning laws that have been amended. This Planning Board has established Southold Town Planning Board N January 11, 1973 rules and regulations. These have been presented at public hearings and approved by the Town Board. Legally, if any subdivider meets all of the provisions of zoning and of the Planning Board this Board may not say we will not approve it. We are forced to say yes, if all of the conditions have been met, which is why we are so sticky about having the files complete in every detail. We-are holding a hearing on one subject. Please make your comments germane to this subject. ROBERT DE MARIA: I would like to read a stat~mH~t, which has been distributed to members of the Board, prepared by The Committee To Save Orient Point. First I would like to know if there is any p~ssibility of moving the hearing to a larger room. (At this time there was discussion about moving the hearing across the street to the hall in the Southold Presbyterian Church.) Mr. DeMaria read the statement of The Committee To Save Orient Point, a cppy of which is annexed hereto and made a part hereof. At approximately 8:00 The Chairman recessed the hearing to reconvene in the hall of the Presbyterian Church. After reconvening in the Church The Chairman introduced the members of the Planning Board and the Secretary to the approximately 70 people attending the hearing. THE CHAIRMAN: I have the list of those signing the petition and am giving it to the Secretary for the permanent record. LORRAINE TERRY: I would like to read a letter to the Planning Board from the North Fork Environmental Council: Gentlemen: The North Fork Environmental Council, Inc., strongly urges you to deny the application for the Land's End Realty development known as Land's End. We base this decision on: the quah~ity and quality of water needed for an additional development in this area has not been clearly defined in regard to it's own use, as well as those water resources needed for the entire district. In addition, we strongly urge a moratorium on all site developments un~il the problems concerning water, wastes and services can be studied and resolved. Respectively submitted, North Fork Environmental Council, Inc. Lorraine S. Terry, Pres. Southold Town Planning Board - 6 - January 11, 1973 FRED EDSON: I did not get a change to sign the petition, but I want to back it up 100 percent. ORVILLE TERRY: If an honest vote were taken in the community the ~a~ority would ~a~ they would prefer the Town as it is now rather than like the west end. It is time for those of us who are really interested in this to act. If the majority want it stopped, I can't see any reason why it can't be stopped. I think we should apply pressure to encourage them to do something. DICK LESStE: I drove from New York City to attend this meeting and drove by a majority of the developments on the west end. In driving through all those mistakes in planning in the western half of the county I am further resolved to see this does not happen to Orient and East Marion. JEAN TIEDKE, League of Women Voters: We have presented to the Town Board of Southold a petition which~ in e~fect was to ask the Town Board to prepare a compil- ation of maps, surveys, etc., to determine what is left and Why it should be developed in the entire town. MRS. LYTLE: Where can we obtain a copy of the Master Plan and a copy of the te~t of the zoning that goes with the Master Plan? HHE CHAIRMAN: We probably do not have them. I think you all must realize that zoA~ing and planning are not fixed and that it changes from year toyear and sometimes in as little as from month to month. Therefore, we do not have at any time but one official zoning map for the TOwn of Southold. We do nog have available for PUblic distribution an up~to-date zoning map. There is oRlY one official map at the Town C~erk's Office. The ones which are for $5 a sheet are adequate, but at no time is any map the official map except one. This is kept up to date. We try and keep a copy filed on the wail in the Town Clerk's office, but t~is is not the official map. It is a copy. These others are reasonably a~curate except for minor changes. The Master Plan has been presented i~ map form; this is available. The Zoning Ordinance is kept up to date; this is available. We do not have a text that goes with the Master Plan, but this has been presented at the series of hearings which we had Southold Town Planning Board - 7 - January 11, 1973 and the Planning Board interpreted the sentimenH at the time of the presentation which received 85% support of th®se attending, to be regarded as the guiding principles. MRS. LYTLE: Why isn't there a text? THE CHAIRMAN: The Planning Board of the Town of Southold is a part time business. We.get compensation for part time. Many weeks I w®rk 30 hours as Planning Board Chairman. This week it will be in excess of that, for which I get paid for about 1/20th of my time. We simply can't do it. We should have a Public Relations Department. ROBERT BERKS: We have a very active, civic minded newspaper and I am sure if you made this available it would be published. THE CHAIRMAN: We are aware of that and consider ourselves fortunate to have the two newspapers in the Town. We use them to the utmost and I am sure Mr. and Mrs. Dorman and Mr. and Mrs. Booth ~imost cooperative. Just bear in mind that the Planning Board are appointed by the Town Board and it does not come in very good grace for the Chairman to say you ought to make us full time jobs and pay us in accordance. I feel and ~ope that some of the pressure has been taken off. I am pleased to see you. Personally I want you to know that we welcome everyone of you. You are saying the things we want to hear. We wish you would have come up two year~s ago. We~re promoting two acre zoning and got now~akers. We have been promoting and have the moSt restrictive zoning in the County of Suffolk and perhaps in the State of New York. Just to point up a few other things - most of you know I am ~a farmer. Farming has qot very real problems.. This Board, Lee Koppleman, County Planning, State Planning and Governor Rockefetlar thin~ the best way to ~preserve open space is to keep it in agriculture. I think'you know that other Towns, Riverhead and Southampton, are b~ing simpty ~flooded with subdivision requests. They do not h~ve ~s goO~ zoning as we have and they will probably go Under~ We get almost everyday requests "Can we put condominiums in ©rient Point - Robins Island - SouthOld - BaYview" 'and~we say no, you must have the zone changed. All other Towns can put condominiums in Residential zones. In the Town of Southold you have to,have the zoned changed to either Business or Multiple Residence. T~is has been more good luck than good management. We want more restrictive zoning in the Town of Southold. We want to do more for agriculture because we think this is the best way for Eastern Long Island. To me it is important that Southold Town Planning Board January 11, 1973 Eastern Long Island be preserved for the food needs of the Metropolitan East. We have to have support. We still have to operate within the framework and the best we know is to turn down the screws on zoning in general. The next stop is 2 1/2 acre zoning. The Courts have challenged time after time people who say we don't want it. I want to tell you the way I feel about it. I feel the Planning Board should not and cannot make any decision at this time. We won't have to make a decision until such time as we hear from the County and when we have approval of the bond from the Town Board. At the same time there is a legal limit to how long we can hold things up. HrWe either have to approve it or disapprove it. At that time we will seek the ad, ce of our Town Attorney and we will take each step we can to slo~ down development. In order to maintain Southold Town the way we want it, you have to say no most of the time. We cannot say no all of the time. When you say no you have to have the support of the people. What you may not understand is the Planning Board and the Town Board feel just the way you do about it. Ne don't want development. It can be documented the cost in the future outweighs the immediate advantages and legally the Courts have ruled that we may not always say no. LORRAINE TERRY: Please explain about not making a decision until you hear from the County. THE CHAIRMAN: The maps submitted to the County Planning Commission were lost in the mail. If the County Planning Commission were to say no, that would be the end. We then sa~ our files are not complete and we would not hold a hearing. We must have approval of all agencies having jurisdiction. The engineers for the developers have sent another set of plans to the County Plan~ing Commission. I would think that the chances of the County Planning Commission turning down this application is pretty remote. They have looked at the maps beforehand made suggestions and it would not be go0ddpolicy at this late date to say no. Our file is not complete, therefore, we cannot complete the meeting. CONNIE TERRY: Is there any action the citizens can take which would change the outcome of this meeting? THE CHAIRMAN: In my opinion there is nothing that can be done at this late date about this subdivision. They have met all the requmrements. I think we can drag our feet to the legal limit. The Town Board has said they will have to put up a $100,000 bond. The bond has been passed on to the Secretary in the amount of $100,000. This ms the bond they asked for. Southold j~_?Planning Board - _ January 11, 1973 CONNIE TERRY: There is no alternative? THE CHAIRMAN: I think the suggestion that Mr. DeMaria made is a good one. The suit that yQu suggest is rarely made but it is in order. This is.the vehicle that the developer will use if for any reason we were to say no. I have to say it has been the policy of the Town of Southold, expressed by the Supervisor and the Planning Board, it is our aim to slow down development and I mean all development. MR. DeMARIA: Can we assume that we have at least 90 days after a meeting at which approval is being requested? THE CHAIRMAN: I would assume that it would mean 90 days after this meeting is again called4 We are getting in touch with the Town Attorney tomorrow and we only act on advice of counsel. ARTHUR TYRELL: Since you have been elected as the Plannin~ ~oa~d and I thin~ you have here at.this meeting a sufficient sign the immediate inhabitants are against this de~e!lopment, where does your position stand legally? I do no~ feel that you would have to approve this. I think you have a clear expression of the inhabitants present[. I am not an attorney. I am not able to give the answers that the Courts will give. are nOtladversely affected. If you could prove that the wa~r supply e~dangers the health through~ nitrates or sho~ta~ ~fl suppty, but to us th~s is questionable in d~el of the fact that the County Health Department has aclre Zoning. More is known abou~ the water of Southold than in a~y comparable area United States. Both the State and local governments have made studies of underground water resources in the Town of S0uthold. As far as safety goes, if it were a matter of fire protection or highway access there would be no question~ I have told you we get some inquiries about Robins Island. There is in New Suffolk about 150 acres currently and over 400 acres on Robins Island and think what that would do to the New Suffolk School District. Robins Island has no access. At the present we are saved, but Robins Island is a place to think about 2 1/2 to 5 acre zoning for the Town of Southold. Welfare becomes nebulous. In my opinion Southold Town Planning Board - 10 - January 11, 1973 we feel and as I have said, we can stall but we cannot say no without being in grave danger of the courts upsetting it. This is the basis for restrictive legislation which we ca~ zoning laws. ARTHUR TYRELL: On what do you base your decision? THE CHAIRMAN: I can only say what our attorney says, thattit has to be pinned on one of these. RICHARD CRdN, ESQ: I think what you have to realize Ls that you are dealing with a law enacted by the legislative body of the Town of Southold, being the Town Board, and it grants ~g all citizens of the Town of Southold certain rights with respect to the development of property interest. The only way you can stop development in an area is to stop people from coming ~n.. But, as long as you have a law that says if certain requirements are met and they are deemed to be Constitutional and the people obey the law,there is nothing that can be done. ANDREW G_~O~DALL, ESQ: What Mr. Cron said is that the Rilan~n~ B bard is endowed with a function that is in lin~ with the police power of the State, namely that they can ~egut~te anything that has to do with health, saf~t~i w~l~r~ or m~rals andwhen irou.o~n ~roperty that is ~ou~ly against any of these t~e Courts are going 0o au!stain it. On the other hand, if you have a piece Ramap0~had a test case along these lines. There the per acre when you make multiple residences and the increases do put a strain,on the sewerage and Of course Ramapo does not ha~e the same type of soil that is here. The courts did hold up hhe people of Ramapo and it was on the ground that the zoning bomrd is charged with the responsibility of having orderly growth, and orderly growth means that you will not spot zone, etc. In this case all the hazards for d~orderly growth have been met then the ~ourts may say you need a moratorium. In this particular case I don't know what power the County comes inuunder. S~O~d Town Planning Board 11 - January 11, 1973 ~ THE CHAIRMAN: The County Planning Commission has review within 500 feet of open water or a County highway. RICHARD CRON, ESQ,:.I would not depend on the Ramapo case. The factual circumstances are different in this case. CONNIE TERRY: If Southold Town is going to propose two acre zoning what action is necessary to propose it and if such action was proposed would it delay the settlement in t~is particular case? THE CHAIRMAN: You.cannot expect the Town Beard in this Town to go out and say we are going to make more restrictive zoning. The Planning Board has been saying we want to have more restrictive zoning. We feel and the Town Board has said a~ the hearings when the last zoning amendments were put through, we have to say no most of the time. We have got a great many people and the least of who are %he farmers, who still own 75% of all the land and they say you are disenfranchising us and are taking away our chance for profit ORVILLE TERRY: Because they are farmers, they should not run the town. The one vote-ene man principle is contrary to that point of view. The public interest is what you have to be concerned with. HENRY RAYNOR: (Adressing Mr. DeMaria) Your Committee To Save.Orient Point has some well taken ideas. Has your group considered addi~ the property to the Park District? That may be a little rash, it is a lot of money, but if you people want to see this property maintained and open have you approached the Park Commissioners? Have you talked to the developers to find our if they would forestall this subdivision. I am just suggesting something. This subdivision has been worked on over a year and they have a lot of money invested. Have you people takena course in a different direction to try to advert this? ROBERT DeMARIA: If there could b~ sufficient time after this hearing such negotiations might take place. We~have talked to members of the County Plannin~ Commission about acquiring the property with a lease-back ~arrang~ht since they have more money. They claimed that it was possible tO take the land and lease it back to the Town or P~r~ District. Southold Town Planning Board January 11, 1973 HENRY RAYNOR: You are aiming at a County controlled level? ROBERT DeMARIA: They will lease it back to the Park District. We want a denial or delay of this application. BILL TERRY: School district. it. You are in the Orient-EaSt Marion We have not yet don~ anything about HENRY RAYNRR: This~creat~sa problem because you said the Orient-East Marion towns work as a unit. If you have a group of 300 petitioners and you feel that this can be expounded upon, there are many alter- natives. ROBERT DeMARIA: The notice of p~blic hearings is very short. We don't know who the principles of the corporat&on are. HENRY RAYNOR: Ail the Planning Board meetings are public meetings. People here have been at the meetings and there was knowledge beforehand. ARTHUR TYRE~L: Would it be helpful to have a resolution from this meeting either askino for a denial or for an adjournment of the de~i~nn for 90 days? THE CHAIRMAN: No, I think that we would not'be on strong legal g~onnd to encourage or allow it. This is a hearing to discuss and to hear opinions of thsse favoring the subdivision entitled Land's End and to hear those who oppose it. The Chairman will not encourage any organization at this time. We are very cautious when we think there is any chance ~that the hearing or deliberations are goin~ to be the object of a court suit. On the other hand I have told you that all of us are anxious to restrict development. ORVILLE TERRY: If a hearing is held and a predominate group request a moratorium, do you than in tnrn recommend this to someone else? Southold Town Planning Board January 11, 1973 THE CHAIRMAN: The Town Board has always authorized the Planning Board in all such cases to take charge. We defer to no one. We have been authorized to proceed in these cases. On the other hand, we are interested, we will take the course which is advised by the counsel employed by the Town. We will try to pe~sue the policy of the Town~ Someone asked about t~xt and maps. At the time of amendments to the Zoning Ordinance, which were a little more than a year a ago, the text, development plan and maps were placed in the Town Clerk's Office, Supervisor's Office and every library in the Town of Southold. ARM_AND ROSE: I would like you to explain to us how this meeting or any meeting can influence the decision if you say the requirements have been met and there is a legal obligation to grant this petition. This meeting is to inform the Board the people of East Marion and Orient are not in favor of this and we assume that you would like to hear this opinion but what effect will it have on your decision? THE CHAIRMAN: We will be in touch with our Town Attorney tomorrow. We will ask if this can be held up ~he legal 90 days and we will get an answer. We will ask what weight should be given to the almost 100% protest from nearby residents and he will give an answer. I am not prepared to even guess it. JEAN TIEDKE: in the procedure? presented? Why are the hearings held this late Why not earlier when they are first THE CHAIRMAN: T~is is why we make all our meetings open. This ms why we should have a Public Relations Department. This is why we try and keep mn very close touch with the newspapers. We want the people to be aware of what is going on. HENRY MOISA: As of January 1, 1973, we will have hearings on preliminary applications of each subdivision. If we are mandated, we will also have a second hearing at the final presentation. It will be published five days prior to the meeting. THE CHAIRMAN: I feel that it is vitally'important that you understand where the Planning Board Stands. Why it takes the action it does. Why it feelS the way it does and I am going to ask from now on the remainder of th~ hearing be confined to people speaking in opposition to the subdivision under discussion. Sout~old Town Planning Board 14 - January 11, 1973 ORVILLE TERRY: Have you really made a detailed study of the water requirements of this subdivision in terms of the amount of water available in that very narrow penin~u~a~ The County will approve any water plan that involves one acre z®ning. Do you have a detailed overall plan which will justify this subdivison? THE C~IRMAN: No, we depend on the County Health Department doing this. We also concur in the opinions of the County Health Department regarding the sufficiency of one acre zoning for single residences. ORVILLE TERRY: That is in general, not in this particular situation. THE CHAIRMAN: We have studies to back this up and to back up one acre zoning in this location. This Board is satisfied and the County Health Department is satisfied. TODD BERKS: We feel that when it comes to a decision we will be defeated in our efforts. Can you ma~e any recommendation as to how we might reverse the decision? THE CHAIRMAN: I cannot give you advice at this time. ROBERT DeMARIA: ~e talked to the Health Department about the water situation and the~?~e it clear that their judgment is open to challenge by legal action. Aq~j~udgment made in this case might Be vunerable, and possible reversible. THE CHAIRMAN: Our water surveys and planning consultants have told us we know more about the water in this town that any similar town. CONNIE TERRY: Have you had a report of the water on this side clearing it for people of all ages~ In Orient By The Sea two people said they have ha~ the wa~r tested within the last few years and the water should'not be given to infants. Do you have any statement from the Health Department which would restrict it ~n any way? THE CHAIRMAN: No, and I want to point our another thing. The newspapers have printed some articles about nitrates. More nitrates were contributed by homeowners than agriculture. ~itrates are a very serious problem. Southold Town Planning Board January 11, 1973 MR. BERKS: Your decision is based upon the legality of it. THE CHAIRMAN: Our decision is usually based on fullfillment of the requirements. MR. BERKS: Definitions are changing. There is not a clear cut definition of these things. We have brought up things which are challenging. THE CHAIRMAN: It depends on the Court's dec~slon and we are guided by the Court's decision. We have the most restrictive zoning in the County of Suffolk. MR. BERKS: We have a unique situation of land. THE CHAIRMAN: If no one else wishes to speak in opposition, I wil~ now adjourn the hearing until the file is complete. of the drainage and I have talked With. Mr. Sledjeski and it is my under- standing the corporation has purchased remaining lots. Mr. Sledjeski said on the last two ho.uses a trench two or three feet deep was dug so that the water woul'd run only into that trench. Mr. Wickham suggested that any seeding of lawns be followed immediately by a light Southold Town Planning Board - 16 - January 11, 1973 application of straw or something. The worse problem occ~ms when the lawns are graded in the fall and then not seeded. A ~ight application of straw would rectify or help the problem. We have received complaints of adjacent property owners in new developments and in most cases it is caused by new homeowners ~ho simply don't realize that you can't grade lawns late in the fall and get grass established. Mr. Raynor asked if they can get a covenant from Inland Homes. Mr. ~ark said they can when he becomes the contract vendee, but some of the lots have been sold to third parties. On motion of Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was RESOLVED That the Planning Board will recommend release of the bond in Laurel Country Estates to the Town Board on receipt of the following: (1) Letter from the Superintendent of Highways approving the drainage; (2) letter from 'Emma Enterprises that the drainage system will be cleaned out; and (3) a letter from Inland Homes that in all cases where they are the contract vendee a trench will be dug in the front portion of ~etD~op~rty to prevent the dirt from running into the road. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Coyle, Grebe, Moisa, Raynor, Wickham. Rudolph Bruer, Esq., presented the preliminary maps for: a minor subdivisio~ for Kimon Retzos and asked fox opinions o~ the layout. Mr. Moisa told him there wiiil be problems gentling a mort~age without a 30 foot right Df ~ay. Mr. W~ckham wanted ~o know if Eastern Excavating had access for a 50 foot road and Mr. Bruer said they w0uld use the right of way on the map. Mr. Raynor asked if Re~zos bought Eas~Rm~ E~cavating Co! or owned any other property adjacent to th~s and Mr. Bruer said no. A riqht of way was given~or sold to a corporation and it was not put on record. The corporation was bought out and in a title search with regard to Bondarchuk, it~was somethin~ that could not be rectified and Bondarchuk took it anyway. Mr. Raynor asked if it was a filed right of way. Mr. Terry said it was recited in deeds. Mr. Wickham told him unless Southold Town Planning Board January 11, 1973 he has a right of way over it we cannot accept it as access for lots 2 and 3. Mr. Bruer was advised to inform his client that banks have been unwilling to give a mortgage on a subdivision with less than a 30 foot right of way. The matter will be held over to the next meeting on February 8, 1973. Mr. Bruer also presented the revised minor subdivision map for Andrew Hahn on Indian Neck Road, P~econic. Mr. Wickham advised Mr. Bruer that the Planning Board has been under pressure from the Town Board about too many minor subdivisions. One of the conditions of our minor subdivision regulations is a bond on an established highway. This has not been interpreted, but the question is whether having 100 feet on an established highway will qualify it for inclusion. The Town Highway Superintendent has said that he is strongly recommending that when we have a minor subdivision more than 300 to 400 feet deep that the roads comply with Town specifications. Hahn~may be evading the major subdivision regulations. I am suggesting you take this under consideration. There is no question that the Planning Board is going to tighten down on minor s~bdivisions. We are going to look to the letter of the law and where we can we are going to stick with it. Mr. W~kham said he would talk to counsel on it and report to Mr. Bru~r at the next meeting. Mr. Bruer also asked for the Board's opinion on a proposed change of zone for & fish market on property across the street from the Peconic Liquor Store. The Board informed him that they have stated and the plans for development state that business development should be in the Village. Stanely S. Corwin, Esq., presented a sketch plan for a major subdivision for Poscillico. It is the interior part of Wic~ham Park. Mr. Coyle asked if any of the roads are established now and Mr. Corwin s&id no. Mr. Corwin said that Mr. Poscillico owns the property individually. Mr. Wickham told Mr. Corwin that the Superintendent of Highways has told us he Wants an area, like the swampy one Southold Town Planning Board January 11, 1973 on this map, for a sump. Mr. Corwin said Mr. Poscillico is in the earth moving business and road building business. All lots are over 40,000 square feet and have public water. Mr. Wickham told him the Board will look at the property. Richard Cron, Esq., attorney for Leeward Acres requested release of the bank passbooks for this subdivision. Mr. Wickham said the Planning Board has received a letter from the Superintendent of Highways recommending release of the bond but has not received notification of approval from the Town Board Highway Committee. He informed Mr. Cron as soon as all approvals are received the Planning Board would recommend release of the bond. Dominic Aurichio, Esq., attorney for Petty's Bight Subdivision at Orient, N.Y., appeared before the Board and requested that the final maps be approved and signed by the Planning Board. On motion of Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board give final approval to Petty's Bight Subdiv~on at Orient, New York, and authorizes the Chairman to sign the maps. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Coyle, Moisa, Raynor, Wickham, Grebe. Richard Lark, Esq., appeared before the Board in regard to a previous application for change of zone for Anna Hansen on property at Mattituck~ On December 28, 1970, the Planning Board passed a resolution confirming their original recommendation with some additional recommendations. Mr. Lark said at the time that was Southold Town Planning Board - 19 - January 11, 1973 done they did not have sufficient engineering data as to whether the recommendations of the Planning Board could be implemented. The reason it has not been brought before you sooner is we did not have a competent purchaser who would develop the property. We negotiated with several purchasers about the covenants and restrictions placed by the Planning Board. The Chairman read the original recommendation dated November 18, 19~9 and the letter to the Town Board dated December 29, 1970 as follows: Southold Town Board 16 South Street Greenport, New York November 18, 1969 Gentlemen: This is to advise you that the following action was taken by the Southold Town Planning Board at a regular meeting held on November 17, 1969: In the matter of the original peiiflon of Anna C. Hansen, Mattituck, New York, relative to a change of zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to ~" Multiple Residence District on PARCEL 1 and from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B" Business District on PARCEL II, property located north side of Mill Road, Mattituck, New York. It was RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board does favorably recommend to the Southold Town Board the change of zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "M" Multiple Residence District on PARCEL I and from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B" Business District on PARCEL II at the above described location. Respectfully submitted, John Wickham, Chairman Southold Town Planning Board Southold Town Board 16 South Street Greenport, New York December 19, 1970 Gentlemen: This is to advise you that the following Southold Town Planning Board January 11, 1973 resolution was passed by the Southold Town Planning Board at'a regular meeting held on December 28, 1970: In the matter of the original petition of Anna C. Hansen, Mattituck, New York, relative to a change of zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "M" Multiple Residence District on PARCEL I.and from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B" Business District on PARCEL II, property located at north side o~ Mill Road, Mattituck, New York: IT WAS RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby confirms their original recommen- dation with the following additional recommen- dations on the above described proposed change of zone: It is recommended that this proposed project meet all of the requirements of the proposed new amendments to the Zoning Ordinance, including the density requirements. It is also recommended that the meadow island be left in a natural state and we are including in this recommendaiion a sketch which appears reasonable to the Planning Board sh~wing finger piers on the east side of the island and a minimum 50 ft. roadway and 100 ft. turn-around. We strongly recommend the proposed location of the gas dock be changed to either the north or south extremity of the meadow island. Respectfully submitted, John Wickham, Chairman Southold ToWn Planning Board Mr. Lark said in the interim after this recommendation and the time a public hearing was set, the contract vendee backed out. Finally a purchaser came to us. He is interested in buying the property and developing it and agrees to work with the Planning Board; he also agrees to the restrictions and covenants. We are Southold Town Planning Board 21 January 11, 1973 entering into a contract on behalf of Mrs. Hansen with Mr. Prank Knispel. The engineering is being done by H He~an Bishop. .Mr. WiCkham told Mr. Lark that the application would have to be amended. Mr. Knispel also came before the Board and asked for some recommendations of the Planning Board. Mr. Lark said the condept is still the same, to develop the entire parcel as multiple residence.with some business as a recreational complex. Mr. Knispel said he would like to retain the Creek front without bulkheading. Mr. Wickham said the Board didll suggests that the middle island be left in a natural state. If you are goin~ to put a road down there then I am not sure three years later we are going to make the same recommendation. The immediate question arises - this is a meadow island, if you are going to put a road down there you will have to provide access. Mr. Lark said they had a survey done on Sebastian's Gutter. We did a study about the types of grass and the water. Mrs. Hansen said birds did not come there anymore. Conservationists have told ~s the water is polluted. One recommendation they did make was that this should be opened to permit a cleansing with the rise and fall of the tide. It would make it healthier. Mr~ Knispel said Mr. Bishop recommended culverts but he thought it would be better to bridge the area. Before entering into any agreement with Mrs. Hansen he~ said he did some research. He went to the State Environmental Conser- vation Department and talked to the Assistan~ Commissioner. He showed him a chart of the area which they have catalogued as partial wetlands. The Commissioner recommended that if he could do something recreational he would recommend, deleting it from=his proposals for purchase. He said he then went to the Commerce Department and they said they would highly recommend the development of the area and they would recommend financing it. Mr. Raynor asked Mr. Knispel what amount of dredging and type of docks he proposed. Mr. Kn~spel said the dredging would enlarge the basin. He said he was interested in the pleasure boating end of the business the resort end of the business. Mr. Lark said the area will require a sewage treatment plan%. Mr. Wickham told him the Planning Board is shying away from~maximum density operations. He asked if any of the area ~ould remain in "A" District. Mr. Knispel said he contemplated using some of the property in cluster zonings. Mr. Raynor asked if he had a site plan overlay. Mr. Lark said that they were just presenting their ideas to the Planning Board for their recommendations. Mr. Knispel said he wanted to use floating docks. The engineer, Bishop said the banks will support the w&ight. Mr. Wickham said the real problem with floating docks is the r~se and fall of the tide and icing up. Mr. Knispel said he planned to develop the Southold Town PlanningBBoard 22 January 11, 1973 area into a Mystic Seaport type of thing. He would like to use part of the area for the display of old boats. He wants to do all of the building in a "down east" type atmosphere and appearance. He said he is looking to do a reconstruction of an old seaport with new buildings. Mr. Raynor asked if he had checked with the Army Corps of Engineers. Mr. Knispel said he had and there is no problem except you can't build a structure into their &~isting channel. Mr. Coyle asked what depth he planned on having on the basin. Mr. Knispel said he wanted a minimum of eight feet and wanted to maintain 10 feet throughout. He said he looks a~ it as a five year project because the d~edging and settling of land would have to take place. The marina would have to be started and some accessory, buildings. Mr. Raynor asked if he would be willing to set up a bond for performance on this pr~3ect. Mr. Knispel said it would depend on the cost. Mr~ Lark said if the Commerce Department makes available the funding they could. Mr. Wickham told them the Planning Board can have him bonded for the improvements, for the performance. Mr. Lark said one of the things that came up with conversations with the State is that they are going to leave it up to local agencies. Mr~ Wickham said the Planning Board required park and play ground in business district as well as in "A" and one thing that we are adamant about is we are not going to give 100% density to anYbO~.~. From now on we are going to say figure 10 - 15% less. ~Mr. Lark said the property would have an approved sewage and water system:. Mr. Wickham said we are particularly concerned with population density. Mr. Lark said they are not going t~ be permanent residences. Mr. Wickham said in our plan foridevelopment we convert temporary Unto permanent. As far as we are concerned we willnot give 100%. Mr. Knispel said he is trying to expand the~type of facility as the Enchor Inn. I want to upgrad~ rather than downgrade. He also said he has talked with architects and land designers and he wants to put playground area required down into the front area so that they don't restrict the view. Mr. Wickham said the BOard has been trying to acquaint you with the 1problems involved. In the preamble to our original land use statement we said we believe water front development is usually as important as highway development. Mr. Raynor totdt~ the Board will ~ant to look at the p~operty. Mr..Knis~%I said he would send another copy of the map. Southold Town Planning Board - 23 - January 11, 1973 The Planning Board discussed the Mattituck Shopping Center with Alden Young and Mr. Terry. On motion of Mr. Wickham, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board authorizes Alden Young, P.E., to check the drainage plans for Mattituck Shopping Center. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Moisa, Grebe. The Planning Board next discussed Sound Crest Woods, Section II with Robert Schroeder. Mr. Schro~er will submit a revised map with one acre lots. Mr. Wickham told Mr. Schroeder if he wanted to wait for about two months the Planning Board would try to get approval on the original map. Mr. Schro~er said he would rather submit one acre lots. Bill Esseks, Esq., appeared before the Board and presented a revised preliminary map for subdivision for Donald Dennis. He said the road will be put all the way to the property line. Mr. Wickham told him he has to get approval of the Town Superintendent of Highways, the Suffolk County Department of Health and the Suffolk County Department of Environmental Control. Mr. Esseks said he would do that. The Board reviewed the proposed planting plan for MattituCk Shopping Center. On motion of Mr.~COyle, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was RESOLVED the planting plan for Mattituck Shopping Center be approved with the following changes: (1) trees around Southold Town Planning Board - 24 - January 11, 1973 water tank are to be 2~ fee~ high; and (2) plant a hedge, to be maintained at least 6 feet three inches from the back of Grants store along the cemetery property. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Coyle, Grebe, ...... Moisa, Wickham. Mr. Wickham said he sent a letter to the Town Board opposing the annexation to Greenport Village. On motion of Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board reaffirm its position, as stated in letter of March 27, 1972, opposin~ the proposed Village of Greenport annexation. Vote of the Board: Ayes~ Messrs. Raynor, Moisa, Wickham, Grebe, Coyle. On motion of Mr. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED that the next meeting of the Planning Board be held January 17, 1973, at the Town office, Main Road, Southold, at 7:30 p.m. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Grebe, Raynor, Wickham, Coyle, Moisa. On motion of Mr. Wickham, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED that the following regular meeting of the Planning Board be held February 8, 1973, at the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, at 7:30 p.m. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Wickham, Coyle, Raynor, Moisa, Grebe. Southold Town Planning BoarS- - 25 - January 11, 1973 The meeting was adjourned at 12:45 Respectfully submitted, Terri Lee Elak, Secretary Southold Town Planning Board TME CO~TrFEE TO SAVE ORIEI~f POINT PRESENTATION OF A i~--CITION AND~kRGUMENTS A~IN~ T~ ~S END ~ ~ 0~ behalf of The C~ttee to s~e Or~eut Point. I would I~ke ko prese~t stgmed by appro~l~tely 300 rest~ntS of ~ent and Esm~ M~~-. '~ ...... to the develop~nt of the 35.5 acres at the point ~,~ ~ Lamd~s ED~ ~sl~y ~rthe~re. I would !lke to s~artze the ar~'~ts ~hat l~e heh~d th~.s ~olUdtng a description of ~e legal g~u~ds on ~ch the T~ ~ ~n tu~ dowm th~s appllcatlon~ ~ ~ The petition reads as follows. '~e~ the umders~, strongly Dro~-~s~ tk~ plans su~tted by the La~d's End c~rat{~ to ~u~d~v~de an~ ~eiop ~ ..... Pot~t~ and we also ~pose the application of tke W~is~rg Brotkers tc ~uk~d~ the 48 a~es at the Easte~ ~ip or ~lent point~ We petition: u~ appt~atlons on grounds pr~lded tn Article X~ of the new T~ Z~{~ ~'~m~ ~Articte X~ guaramtees that the in~erests of neIsh~r~ ~cpte w!~, prl~ ~deratton where a~.y S~te Deveto~e~t applica~s are c~ceraed~ I~00A states: ~In coms!der~ a~ m.~.,t~S Board shall take into coms~deratlon the public healCh= smfetay a~d watfs~'e~ c~fort and co~vemience of the public ~n gsneral and of the resident~ of ne ~ghborhooa ~n~ particular.. ~. There was a q~st~onna~re appended to th~ pet~ti~ in ~h~ch pmep{e ware asked ~.~ preference as to the ultimate d~sposl~or~ of t~ tar~ As of noc~.~ II these are the results. 157 people favored TO-~ scquisItlon u~ the p favored C~nty acquisition: i~ ?referred that ~t be cluster zcned~ and ~?~ suggest!o~v includi~ poss~b!e ac~ st t~om umder the ~ Cour~ FIa~ to ~a~ la~ds o~ a iease-,back 0~ A~G~S ~AINST T~ A~PLiCATiG~'] ~E AS FGLL~S: ~. We ~nterpre~ ~i~ed~ate ~e~gh~rh°°d~v to ~anm~.~emt anda EaStpark ~r~,d~str~ct~ as a viable ae~r~ty. It has a joint school ............ acclivities and problems tn c~on. The T~n Boa~ ~c~ize~ th~s wham it ras~nded to an orient-East Mar~on meetlng at poq~tuck ~!I last op~se t~ creation of a County park at the po~nt~ At that t~me ~ke a~t 250 p~ople was sufficient to defeat the move. 300 ~t~tio~s at fr~ the ~e s~rce should be more than suff~c!emt~ We have bad reap ve~ direct neigh~rs ~ Orient by the Sea amd fr~ Mr~ Gsorge ~tb~<~,~ fa~ at the c~c~d a~ut t~ quaI~ty a~ quantity of our ws~er~ Department grants approvals for s~e Devetoumemts o~ly om ~pec~_f~.c weils~ w~.th~ut reference to the overall water problems of the areas Many people are ala~ at the possibility that the area is b~coming over.developed in relat~om to ~.s water resources, Until the TOWn can prove to us that our water ~s ~afe, ~.e wl!I oppose all new developments and sub~.~xv~s.~ons~ '~ are concerned also about the im~m. ct on our local sehoo! system of, addt:tio~,~- elopments. It is true that this particular <l~velopment may tid.d only a few we must oppose all deveEopments on 'the grounds-that 'no q~'ta 'Or limit has been fished by the To~n'--". If this application is approvecT~ it must become a p~ecedent approving any number of similar developments, including the vast Pebble Beach i.-'~<,~-~-~ In East Marion involvir~ up to 280 houses, not to mention scores of other pw · b-divisions of lands now in ehe hands of real estate speculators. If, as t! .:latms, this applica~tion ~an not, be legally denied, then no other similar chaos in our school system and inevitably t~.ult in much higher taxes. Our scko::,k func~ions beautifully. Itow many eommuui~iis can make that claim? ~he ~hola area known as Orient Point is a unique piece of land-with geographical historical significance. In its current state it adds to the beauty and of our whole area. Under a recent New York state Law, local governments are to pass laws to preserve and enhance the environment. We feel that any checke,--.--...,, or saturation housin2 at the Point vould be harmful aesthetically and our community. It ~ould also be hamful economically te the ~hole North Fork, aim is to.attract tourists ~ho find this part ef the world interesting and visit. They don~t eeme out here to Levittown ho~ses -- they come out to see amon~ o~her famous landmarks. The:cuttin~ up and, in, effeCt, £eneln~ off, of lands at the Point would ~ake ac the .:beaches more difficU~t~ robbing local fisherme~ of one of their favorite cas~{r~ areas; More development means more traffic and lass safety,; Our,children no~ are ac~' mov~g.'~b°ut freely and safely, andzrosstuE the hi.ay with reasonable secuv- Even~l'l~ this will be impossible hence, another dan§er to ,,public welfaz~ safety,' ': lev ork state law recognizes the need to-protect endan~ere~d species of wild }:m~I ~hose species they include ,the o.spreyo?e.a.l' kn~W kill off the Osprey. nd we all kno~ teat Orient ~s one o~ ca~ .-~- -- ~ beautiful bird. - nt nded that excessive restrictions placed on the use of this 1~ ~t b~s been co e - , ' ~ n t~ · · ~: · ' o all such a uestien is noth withi ~e tantamount to confiscation. ¥trs: f , q ,; ,~, . ~f~ this'h'earing. Secondly ,- it would :.not. result in tndiri~,.of - co~rse.": c°nzisea; '~°n confi sca' 'a~nYt~ ....... ~ Wetlan~ds Ordi~ance-does -- and that, seeras to be lap, al, - ___. f -~'~"~- -ompensatton, New york State is compensating wetlands o~aers, where .compe.n.s~ y ' . ~., .... = ......... 2 don't l~to~. That is a problem that Will f~ced after this application is turned down. the County's To~n Charter patterns.~ ~0. It has been suggested by a few people ststent with the stand taken by the c~ntty a~ainst the 'County last May. so. ~st May ~ said ' a h~sin~ d~elop~nt at ~r under private or public"~ndrship. 11. The con.~e~l~n has been made that the Town Board does not have the legal right to deny this app];~tton, providing that all the requirements of the Zoning Ordinance are met. We' conten~khat the Town Board has every right in the world to deny this application; and, in fact, should be legally obliged to deny it on the grounds that a) the local people strongly object, b) publie welfare and safety will be jeopardized, ¢)public comfort and convenience will be jeopardized, d) wild life may be endangered, e) water resources may be inadequate, f) the school system may be overstrained, g) and the whole c~,i~nity may beconm less attractive as a rural, rustic, agricultural area. 1. Article XIV of the current Zoning Ordinance, which gives prime consideration to residemts of the immediate neighborhood. 2. The Town Law of the State of New York and the Municipal Home Rule Law of the State of New York empower the town to acc to preserve the general welfare and safety of their residents. 3. A new provision in the Municipal Home Rule Law gives a Town or local government the rio~t to enact legislation to preserve and en~hance its physical environment. 4. The County Town Charter provides for development within "historical patterns.'~ 5. A recent decision in the New York State Court of Appeals, involving the Town of Ra~.po in Rockland County upheld a moratorium on all developments in that :coma~nity. The moratorium was called by the Town, was immediately challenged by the developers and was upheld by the New YOrk State Court of Appeals. The Town was allowed a moratorium of up to 18 years if necessary, to solve its basic problems, Their problems were similar to ours -- water, resoumces, sewerage, community services, rapid growth. In other words: the Town can legally declare a moratorium on developments until it has a chance to stt~dy such cruc~'~matters as its water supply. We understand that legal, action is under way in East Hampton now ~to force a moratorium in that Town. The grounds for upholding a moratorium are that ~further development might jeopardize the "public health, safety, and welfare,- In conclusion, we reiterate our stand., We are unalterably opposed to this develo~c.~nt as ! Should it be approved in the face Ofour local petition and the set fOrth, we have no choice but to consider~a challer~ge in court. We must consider this possible course of action, because decision the To~ Board, may 'be swayed by the threat of legal action from the: should the appli~ cation bedenied. Well, legal action is a two~way street. And if!One real.estate developer can sue the Town to protect his profit, then cer~tainly 300 concerned citizens can sue the Towmto protect their safety and welfare and wholeway of life. If, on the'other hand, the decision on this application Can'ge delayed for say sixty or, ninety dayS, we would welcome such a delay as a period in'which further inform= ation can be de. eloped amd exchanged. We are not opposed, in principle, to more housing, but we mu~t have guidelines~and assurances that our Community and environment will notbeharmed'bef°re ~e can accept any new applications for developments in Orient-East Marion. Members of' THE COItMITTEE TO SAVE ORIENT POINT: Charles Webb, William Terry, Ellen DeMaria, Barbara Edeen, Roland Carlsson, E.E. Dace, jr, Robert DeMaria.