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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-04/30/1974Southotd Town Planning Board SOUTHOLD~ L. I., N. Y. 119'71 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS John Wlekham, Chairman Henry M ollsa Alfred Grebe Henry Raynor Frank Coyle MINUTES SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD April 30, 1974 A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held at 7:30 p.m., Tuesday, April 30, 1974, at the Town Clerk's Office, Main Road, Southold, New York. There were presenT: Messrs. Johu Wickham, Chairman; Henry Moisa, Vice-Chairman; Henry Raynor; Frank S. Coyle; Alfred Grebe. From 7:30 until 9:15 an Executive Session was held am which the following people were present: Robert Gillispie, Chairman of the Board of Appeals; Howard Terry, Building Inspector; Edward Bage, P.E., Town Engineer; Lawrence Tuthill, P.E., Town Engineer; Howard Young, P.E.; Roderick Van Tuyl, P.C.; Lorraine Terry; James Enowles (8:00); and Jean Tiedke (8:30). A discussion was held as to minimum elevations for lots to be built upon. There was discussion as to a minimum elevation in the natural state which if not met would make the lot unable to be built upon. A letter from Robert Villa of the Suffolk County Department of Health suggested a good criteria would be for twenty-five percent of the lot to be filled with a minimum area of filling set at 10,O00 square feet. These suggestions were made to protect against salt water intrusion in the marine fringe and cesspools which were determined to be a responsibility of the Department of Health. Also mentioned was the upcoming Federa~ Insurance Program for the flood plain whose findings we will probably be obliged Planning Board -2- April 30, 1974 to go along with. Minimum floor elevations in Southampton are 10 feet. Mr. Van Tuyl suggested 9 feet from the finished floor. High tide elevation - Mr. Van Tuyl suggested 7 feet from mean high water. Water table elevation - Mr. Villa said in his ~etter that the Health Department requirements are 6 feet on a non-subdiv- ision lot and 8 feet on a subdivision lot from ground water. Mr. Tuthill suggested a minimum be set for each with all to be complied with as ground water level varies with the tide even 100 feet from the bay from season to season. All suggestions and discussion was to be taken under advisement for presenting to the Southold Town Board for an amendment to the zoning ordinance. Blue Horizons. Mr. Van Tuyl presented three copies of the preliminary map which will be considered a sketch and three copies of the road profiles. He will send three more copies of the map and one more copy of the profiles. Sleepy Hollow. Gary Olsen, Esq. and Leo Kwasnieski appeared. Mr. Wickham: I went over the suggestions of the Highway Depart- ment for a change of location of the park and playground and the question of the recharge basins with the Highway Committee, the Supervisor and the Superintendent of Highways. It looks like you are going to lose a lot and I haven't been able to talk them out of it. Mr. Kwasnieski: There was a recharge basin put in on the end of Willow Pond Lane some years ago and the people complained of this and they had the town fill it because it never acquired a drop of water. This property does not hold a bit of water. Larry Tuthill: There was never a recharge basin there. There Planning Board .... 3- -- April 30, 1974 is a basin there now in the corner. Most of the basin is in water. Our worst problem is we are requiring curbs and it doesn't allow it ~o dissipate on the side. Everywhere we have curbs we have major problems. Mr. Ewasnieski: In Yennecott Park the grass and road look very nice without the curb. Mr. Raynor; What would be the engineering problem to put a catch basin(s) at lots 8 and 117 Mr. Tuthill: It is not expensive. Mr. Olsen: Can we waive curbs? Mr. Wickham: These are the highway specifications. The Planning Board has suggested that they be waived under certain circum- stances but up until the present time we haven't established that. We are in a position of not being able to promise any- thing. I would think a good way to go about it would be for Charlie Barnett to make a soil determination and get him to recommend it. Then we can go to the highway department and the highway committee and say we think this ought to be done. Then there will be no problem. Understand that this all takes time and we have spent far too~uch time and have held Leo up far too long on this and I don't know what is the best for him. I have no assurance the highway committee will buy it. We have recommended in the past because curbs and gutters have caused trouble for us in some areas. Mr. 01sen: It might be worth the try. Maybe we could have it by the next meeting. It seems your rules and regulations present more problems than what it is trying to prevent. It would be more attractive and ecologically~ke more sense to ~ust have a natural runoff on the sides. Mr. Xwasnieski: It seems a shame to cut up the property and separate some lots of it for drainage. A little more time might help. Mr. Wiokham: What do you think, Larry. If there are no curbs and gutters ........ Mr. Tuthill: There are no steep slopes there. Most of it is gentle slopes. Except for the initial approach, everything is on a gentle slope. It looks very sandy and I am inclined to Planning Boar~- -4- April 30, 1974 to go along with them and I don't know if the curbs are good. Mr. Wickham: I think you would want tO put in a series of catch basins. Mr. Tuthill: With curbs you can't do it. The town has had to buy land for recharge basins. If anything got clogged up here it would still go to the bay. Mr. Raynor: I want to know what the cubic foot requirements would be for a recharge. You have 9,000 square feet to play with. Your engineer should find out if the formula works out. (Mr. Martocchia arrived at the meetins at about 9:30 p.m.) Mr. Wickham: We know we have created problems by putting in curbs and gutters where there would be no problems. Where the soil is the proper consistency there could be a waiver of curbs and gutters. The problem is you don't decide these things in a hurry. (to the supervisor) The highway committee told me and I think you agreed with them that they weren't in any hurry to try any swale deal until that one proves out. But here is one that they have sandy land which might be a natural location. Would you think it would be appropriate to ask Barnett what he thought about a swale operation here? Mr. Martocchia: My quarrel is not with swale but too often we have to look for land to drain off water. It should be taken care of in the beginning more than adequately. We have to wind up buying lots at 7, 8 and l0 thousand dollars to drain off into. Mr. Tuthill: One thing about this area is even if you had a tremendous storm, the water is going overboard nommatter what you do. This has an outlet. If everything filled up the town wouldn't have a problem. Other places are landlocked. Even if you had twelve inches of rain it would never be clogged up. Mr. Wickham: Could we back the water up in the center of Grissom Lane and bring it down to the line between lots 7 and 8? Mr. Tuthill: You could do that. Mr. Wickbam: Say to Rod (Van Tuyl) compute what we need and move right ahead on it. You are just saying that you only have to take care of the water for 450 feet and there is always the possibility that any surplus can go overboard. Plan~ing Board 5- ~ April 30, 1974 Mr. Martocchia: How many inches are you providing for? Mr. Wickham: Six inches. Mr. Olsen: This road you will never have a problem with. What is the purpose of curbing? Mr. Wickham: To catch the water because we do not want the highways flooded. Actually our six inch rainfall is a 75 year storm and that is what we are designing against. M~s. Tiedke: How do you keep pollution out of Howell's Meadow from cesspools? Mr. Wickham: The Board of Health. Mrs. Tiedke: The cesspools are normally put in the backyard. Mr. Tuthill: They are put in the front for possible future sewage hookup. Mr. Wickham: With one acre zoning there should be no problem with water or sewage disposal at all. The secretary was directed to correspond with Mr. Barnett of the Soil and Water Conservation District regarding the above. Mr. Olsen: What about the recommendations of Dean? Mr. Wickham: You as the developers are saying there should be other alternatives. Mr. Olsen: Do ~hey have authority to say where play anSas are? We can get a signature if we take care of the drainage problem? Mr. Wickham: Yes. Oregon ~iew. Gary Olsen appeared. The Planning Board will let Mr. Olsen know when the recommendations of the Superintendent of Highways and the High- way Committee are received. Greenfields. Gary Olsen appeared. This subdivision is ready for final and Mr. Olsen will be notified as to the date. Planning Boar~ -6- April 30, 1974 Casola. Laurie Properties. Mr. Olsen appeared. Mr. Olsen: This is the same map as you had before except Young and Young have gone down again. It is redated. It has Health Department approval. Mr. Raynor: Have you anything from the engineer about the static water levels? Mr. Olsen: Yes, this is it. Mr. Wickham: This parcel proposed to be donated, we are going to insist on a perpetual open space easement to the Town of Southold on that. On lots one and two we are going to insist on a recordable instrument saying these lots will never be resubdivided and it will so state in the deeds and we will need it with the map. We had some discussion at Bob Tasker's office that we would insist that it show on the map and in the convey- ances out that these properties must be filled to the standards of the County Board of Health and we want it to appear on the map what the standards are and, again, we want a recordable instrument. Mr. Olsen: The protective covenant I prepared did not put down what the standards are because they may vary when an individual buys these lots because the standards may be different four years from not than what they are today. I thought it might be a better way to handle it. Mr. Wickham: I am concerned that somebody doesn't get taken by this and you write on the map to alert people to the fact that under present standards, we are talking about an area about a quarter of each lot being filled an additional four feet or something like that. We have an obligation to protect the buyer whoever he might be. Mr. Olsen: Then, if these notations are reflected on the map, then do I understand it this is approved? Mr. Raynor: Have the parties involved in the original water tests explained why the big difference is here? Mr. Olsen: They did the~s in December and Larry went down in March and this was done in April. Whatever it is it is reflected on the map now. Mr. Olsen: Am I to understand that after these notations are made, it is approved? Planning Boar~i -7- - April 30, 1974 Mr. Wickham: We would require everything that we think is necessary to assure the protection o~ the buyers of these lots and our attorney tells me we cannot not approve it. Mr. 01sen: Please explain to me the three plus acres. You want an open space easement to the Town of Southold? Mr. Wickham: A perpetual easement that this will remain per- petually open and noone will come in and buy it and try to subdivide it. Mr. 01sen: Could we have a restrictive covenant that it will never be divided? Mr. Wickham: No, that it will never be sold, it will never be developed. You can get this from Bob Tasker. When someone says it is going to be open space we say alright. Bob Tasker told me to never trust anyone. This is just a promise. Mr. 01sen: The suggestion was it be given to the park district. Mr. Wickham: Lots of people convey property to nature conser- vancies. The Howell Meadow is a case in point. They think when they have conveyed to Nature Conservancy, it will be protected. This is not the case. Nature Conservancy can sell it the next day to anyone they wish if there is no negative easement on it. The attorney for Nature Conservancy said they are not precluded from selling it at any time so because some- one conveys to them or the park district does not mean ........ If you put a negative easement on which we require, it can never be developed. Mr. 01sen: Let the record show I am submitting a redated survey of this minor subdivision dated April 26, 1974. The following letter was introduced by Mr; Raynor. The secretary was directed to send copies to the Planning Board members. March 29, 1974 Southold Town Planning Board Southold, New York Dear Sirs: Planning Boare~f -8- ~pril 30, 1974 I have developed some guidelines which should be helpful in preparing and evaluating Environmental Impact Statements. A complete Environmental Impact Statement should consist of four basic items: I. Analysis - A complete analysis of the need for the proposed action. This would be a justification which considers all values that may be obtained from the pro- ject. It should discuss the overall objectives and any possible alternatives to meet these objectives. This section should not be limited to a simple cost~benefit analysis. II. Description - An informative dSscription of the en- vironment involved. This should be a detailed description of the present environment before the project. It should place special emphasis on any unique or rare aspects of the area, and whether or not these factors are presently good or bad. I have enclosed a list of environmental characteristics which may serve as a guideline for this section. III. Proposal - This is a discussion of the pertinent details of the proposed action. This should include a section on possible alternative engineering methods which may accomplish the same objective. A list of proposed actions is also enclosed for this section that may be used as a guideline. IV. Assessment - An assessment of probable impacts on the environment. This assessment should consist of three basic elements: 1. A listing of the effects on the environment which would!be caused by the proposed development and an estimate of the magnitude of each. 2. A~ evaluation of the importance of each effect. 3.~The final environmental impact assessment which would be the combination of magnitude and importance in terms of a summary evaluation, The environmental impact statement as described is meant to be all inclusive. It should be able to accommodate any project from the simplest to the most complex. It max be in some instances that specific sections might be omitted because they would not pertain to everyproject. Please be assured that the C.A.C. will always be 'aw~ilable to help review these statements. Sincerely, /s/ Frank A. Kujawski, Jr. Chairman, C.A.C. Planning Boar~.~ -9- - April 30, 1974 Letter from Frank A. Kujawski, Southold Town Conservation Advisory Council dated March 29, 1974. Addendum Section Three Be Ce De me me PROPOSED ACTIONS Surface Modifications 1. Ground Cover 2. Paving 3. Ground Water Hydrology Noise and Vibration Land Trs~sformation and Construction 1. Materials and Architecture 2. Fill or Excavation 3. Urbanization Resource Extraction t. Mining or Gravel 2. Dredging 3. Fishing, Hunting, etc. 4. Wells or Fluid Removal Processing 1. Farming, Dairy 2. Mineral, Metallurgical, Chemical, Textile, Oil, Food, etc. 3. Product Storage Energy Generation Resource Renewal 1. Recycling (waste, water, solids, etc.) 2. Recharge 3. Fertilization Traffic Changes Waste Treatment or Emplacement Chemical Treatment 1. Chemical Treatment of Soil 2. Weed and Insect Control 3. Fertilization Accidents 1o Explosions 2. Spills and Leaks 3. Operational Failure Planning Boar~ .... 10- ~ April 30, 1974 Addendum Section Two ENVIRONMENTAL CHARACTERIETICS A. Physical and Chemical Characteristics 1. Earth Composition 2. Water Characteristics 3. Atmosphere Variables 4. Geological Processes B. Biological Conditions 1. Flora (trees, shrubs, grasses, etc.) 2. Fauna (organisms including insects) C. Cultural Factors 1. Land Use 2. Recreation 3. Aesthetics and Human Interest Cultural Status (population density, life style, etc.) 5. Man-Made Facilities (utilities, waste disposal, etc.) D. Ecological Relationships 1. Biochemical Status (entrophication, intrusion, food chains, etc.) On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED that the minutes of the regular meetings of April l, 1974 and April 16, 1974 be approved. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Wickham, Moisa, Coyle, Raynor and Grebe. *** Guimaraes minor subdivision. The secretary was directed to write Mr. Guimaraes and explain to him the subdivision regulations. *** On motion made byMr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED that the subdivision "August Acres" be placed on the calendar and the legal notices published for a hearing on the preliminar~amappon May 15, 1974. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Wickham, Raynor, Moisa, Coyle and Grebe. Planning Board -11- ~_._april 30, 1974 Orient Point. Mr. Tuthill verified the necessity for 100 feot setbacks. The Army Corps of Engineers also says the bay beach has eroded substantially since the 1800's. On motion made by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED that the final hearing for Greenfields be held at the next meeting permissable after receiving the final map with proper signatures. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Wickham, Moisa, Coyle, Raynor and Grebe. % % % As the Congress of the United States had set April 30, 1974 as a time for humility and prayer, Mr. Wickham led the members and other people present in a moment of prayer. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED that the Chairman be authorized to sign the map of the minor subdivision of Stanley Sledjeski~ Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Wickham, Moisa, Raynor, Coyle and Grebe. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED that the Chairman be authorized to sign the map of the minor subdivision of Michael Weinstein. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Wickham, Moisa, Raynor, Coyle and Grebe. On motion made by Mr. CoYle, seconded by Mr~ Moisa and carried the meeting was adjourned at ll:15 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Muriel Brush, ~ecretary John Wickham, Chairman