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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-04/05/1976JOHN WICK}taM, Chairman ALFRED GREBE FIO. NK COYI.E HEIqRY RAYNOR Southold, Y. 11971 April 5, 1976 TELEPHONE 765-1313 A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held on April 5, 1975 at 7:30 p.m. Present were: Absent was: John Wickham, Chairman Henry Raynor, Vice-Chairman Frederick Gordon Frank Coyle Lawrence M. Tuthill Fred Grebe (hospital) Bob W~ndell - subdivision on Leslie Road, Peconic. Mr. Windell was advised by Mr. Raynor to check the nitrates on the property as this was the reason ~his property couldn't be subdivided three years ago. This subdivision must meet the town highway specifications for a fifty foot road because it is a major subdivision. He must make a decision to go for a major or minor subdivision. It would need drainage and curbs. This was formerly brought in by Pontino. Bayley. - Mr. Bayley and Mr. Rudolph Bruer appeared. One of the other pieces of property is in the name of Mrs. Bayley and one is in joint ownership. There was discussion as to where the road in this subdivision should be placed. Covenants will be required on this property as to no further subdivision. Motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon, WHEREAS, several years ago the Town of Southold retained the services of Raymond and Mays, planning consultants, to perform planning studies relative to the preparation of a comprehensive master plan for the future development of the Town of Southold, and Planning Board -2- Apr._ 5, 1976 WHEREAS, during the progress of such study, numerous maps were from time to time prepared, and WHEREAS, certain of said maps have shown and designated thereon in several areas of the Town broken lines intended to indicate future highways which said planning firm intended the Planning Board to utilize as a guide for the future planning of the highway system in the Town, and WHEREAS, the Town of Southold has not established an official map pursuant to the provisions of Section 270 of the Town Law, and accordingly any future or proposed street or highway shown on any map, other than an official map, has no legal effect, and WHEREAS, numerous residents residing in the Hamlet of Orient have appeared before the Town Board and the Planning Board and have evidenced grave concern that a map or maps in the files of the Planning Board have designated thereon broken line or lines extending easterly from Youngs Avenue between New York Route 25 and Long Island Sound, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that any and all maps in the possession of the Planning Board or any other board or official of the Town, except subdivision maps duly approved by this Board and recorded in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office, which said maps may have shown or designated thereon a broken line or lines which may be construed as indicating a future street or highway of the Town are hereby determined by this Board to have no legal force and effect insofar as the same purport to indicate a future street or highway, and it is further RESOLVED, that a copy of this resolution shall be transmitted to the Supervisor of the Town for the information of the Town Board. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Noes: Raynor Absent: Grebe Coyle, Gordon This resolution was declared duly adopted. The following represents part of the conversation and discussion about this subject. Mr. Wickham: Speaking for myself, this is what we have said repeatedly and I can't see any reason why the Planning Board shouZdn't pass such a resolution and have it on the books. One slight reservation and that might be that the Planning Board would have no right to resolve anything for any other board or official of the town and I am thinking particularly of the Highway Superintendent as we have no way to commit him in any way. Dan Latham: It wasn't an official map but if it is not on an official map, why are the developments kept open? Two hundred Planning Board -3- _April 5, 1976 feet back from the Sound, maybe, is the way but there is other property along this dotted line that different individuals own on the Sound side and the Main Road side. Will there be any condemnation? Mr. Wickham: The Town of Southold has never condemned for highway purposes and have no intention of doing it. Mr. Latham: Mr. Martocchia says and the Planning Board says but in ten years there might be different people and they might want it to go through. Irving L. Price, Jr., Esq.: You make the statement that Southold Town has never condemned for highway purposes. I think it has been done two or three times. Under the provisions of New York State Highway Law, you can have narrower roads than fifty feet. If you have regulations the Planning Board has limited powers and the regulations must be in accord with the provisions of the State Law which gives the Planning Board its limited powers. The limited powers do not include condemnation or taking of property without due process. When you take and make a person who subdivides their property provide a road across the width of it whether it is up and down or diagonal or straight across, I submit that is taking property without due process. I believe in Section 266 and 267 there is no provision at all for circulation. You made a statement several times that you have to have approved access. That is correct, but has nothing to do with a road across a subdivision or a town highway or a road on a map as you well know. It is well- known in East Marion that you have more houses that there would be on many of these minor subdivisions and subdivisions that have an access over an eight-foot road and each one of those is eligible for fire insurance and each one would be eligible for a federally insured loan. I believe that the first map that Mrs. Hale brought in was satisfactory in that it had this road which was supposed to connect up with other subdivisions. It was only after some advice and some neighbors had talked to her that she changed her mind. I believe that any requirement that a minor subdivision or a subdivision provide a fifty-foot space for a possible future road is condemnation and taking of property without due process and I believe it is unconstitutional and I hope that some sub- division will be submitted without it. As to the thirty-four foot access I point to the eight-foot access which has been. The main paved section of Front Street in Greenport in front of the post office is thirty-three feet. It is narrow but you have two lines of parked cars and two-traffic flow. To say that you are ever going to have traffic there which would require fifty feet is unreasonable on its face. Mr. Wickham: I won't argue. There have been attorneys that say you can't require subdivisions to meet the town highway specifica- tions but eventually they did it. Mr. Price: The Board of Appeals once said that to me and it was upset in the Appellate Division. If it is taken into court all the subdivisions would go down the drain. -4- AP~t 5, 1976 Planning Board Mr. Raynor: Are there any approved subdivisions with eight-foot access? Mr. Price: There are some fifteen or twenty houses the Board of Appeals has approved. Mr. Raynor: Did any member of the board tell her how to draw her initial submission? Mr. Price: I don't know. Mr. Wickham: The Planning Board is not legally trained and we approach many of these things very carefully and only after extensive discussion with the Town Attorney. We can get off base. There is no question about it. I have been told by the Supervisor that the Town of Southold has never condemned. Mr. Raynor: By the bridge abutment in Mattituck there are two separate parcels. This was about two years ago. Mr. Wickham: I will ask the Town Attorney to contact you tomorrow to discuss this with you. The resolution was passed after this discussion. Mr. Barnett and Mr. Pauser were present from the Soil Conservation District of the United States Department of Agriculture. Mr. Lawrence M. Tuthill, Town Engineer, and Mr. Fauser the engineer for the subdivision known as "Blue Horizons". This will probably require permits from the DEC in regard to debogging. Mr. Barnett has no information at this time. The Board will check to see what is needed from the town in regard to this. Mr. Fauser said there will be no removal from the property of excess bog. He should check with the building inspector. The secretary is to check with the highway department for the latest recommendations of Mr. Larry Tuthill in regard to this subdivision. She is then to send a copy to Mr. Fauser. Mr. Barnett felt there would be a problem on 24 and 30 or 32 with debogging. The rest he felt were routine. The wildlife ponds which are designated on the map as being dedicated to the town will not be accepted by the town and should go to a property owners association. More park and playground should be made at lot #3. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to schedule the subdivision of property known as "Blue Horizons" for a public hearing on the preliminary map when maps are received which comply with the recommendations of the town engineer. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Coyle, Raynor, Gordon. Planning Board -5- AD A1 5, 1976 Mr. Fauser also showed another piece of property that he will do the engineering for located in Orient and just to the east of the property of "Soundview Acres at Orient". He will request a copy of this map from Van Tuyl so that his subdivision will be compatible. The Rath Lodge. Mr. Barnett presented his suggestions on the use of sand swale drainage at this subdivision. Sand Swales were also recommended for Crown Land Lane. Fairway Farms. Mr. Barnett said he was disappointed that they have not completed the work on the swales and patched them and taken care of them. Mr. Barnett will send a letter with his observations. Mr. Rarnett presented a report on Sound Shore Acres subdivision owned by Hodor. Bayley. On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to require a fifty-foot road improved to the specifications of the building inspector on the minor subdivision of property of Bayley in Southold. This road should go from Middle Road, past the Long Island Lighting Company easement and fifty feet wide west to the l~nd of Latham. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon. Motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor and carried to approve the minutes of the regular meeting of March 15, 1976. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to approve the parking and lighting on the site plan of Dr. Arnold Urist for property at Love Lane, Mattituck. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon. Planning Board -6- ~_~il 5, 1976 On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was ~ESOLVED to recommend to the Town Board the bond estimate prepared by Lawrence M. Tuthill in the amount of $50,000 for the roads and drainage in the subdivision known as "Greton Estates" located at Mattituck, New York. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon. Lange. The Board of Appeals is to be informed that the feeling of the Planning Board is that the thirty foot wide road is necessary for emergency vehicles and part of the responsibility of the Planning Board to provide. On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED to approve the sketch map of the subdivision owned by Babcock and Rimmler located at Southold, New York, said map dated July 2, 1975 and revised August 15, 1975. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to set a public hearing on the map of the minor subdivision of property owned by Fronimakis and others dated November 5, 1975. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon. A letter is to be directed to the owners of the former Sayre garage to request a site plan for parking and lighting for the restaurant. Motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor and carried that the meeting be adjourned. Meeting adjourned at 10:35 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Muriel Br~sh,×~ecretary John Wickham, Chairman