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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-07/12/1976~'OHN WICKHAM, Chairman AL~*R~D GEEEE ~ CO'~LE H~I~RY RAYNOR FREDERICK E. GORDON Southold, L. N.Y. 11971 July 12, 1976 MINUTES TELEPHONE 765-1313 A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held at the Town Clerk's Office, Main Road, Southold, New York, on July 12, 1976. Present were: John Wickham, Chairman Henry Raynor, Vice-Chairman Frank S. Coyle Frederick Gordon Alfred Grebe Peter Campbell, The Suffolk Times Robert Rinklin, Long Island Traveler - Watchman Quail Run Estates. Gary Flanner Olsen, Esq. appeared. Mr. Raynor read the Notice of Hearing and presented proofs of publication from the Long Island Traveler - Watchman and the Suffolk Times. The description involving a course on Bergen Avenue in which the map and the legal description differed was to be checked. Also, property of "Jean Mendozza" was to be checked as it did not show on the map. Mr. Wickham checked over the file for this subdivision and noted that there is no letter from the Superintendent of Highways. Mr. Wickham: As far as I can see, the developer has generally met the requirements. At this time, I will open the hearing to anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition to the subdivision. Hearing none, I will ask for anyone that wishes to be heard in favor of it. Gary Olsen, Esq.: This file apparently has a long history and I am new to the matter. From what I have heard, it appears that this subdivision does comply with all of the requests that have been made to the owner. He informed me that to the best of his knowledge, he has complied with all you have asked for. It appears to go along with all the requirements of the town. There are 13 lots. I would respectfully request that the board would look Planning Board -2- ~ly 12, 1976 favorably upon this preliminary map. Mr. Wickham: We will want to check out with our engineer but, in general, it looks like it complies. There being no one further that wishes to be heard, I will declare the hearing closed. Col. Ted Dowd. Col. Dowd and Gary 01sen, Esq. appeared. Mr. 01sen requested a meeting with Larry Tuthill, the Superintendent of Highways and the Planning Board about the necessity of a recharge basin in this subdivision. They were asked to send a letter with- drawing the previous application for preliminary subdivision as the subdivision has changed substantially. Mr. Wickham wants to discuss the possibility of diffusion wells with Mr. Barnett of the Soil Conservation Service as this seems to be an ideal location for them. Sound Shore Acres. Gary Olsen, Esq. appeared. Mr. Wickham opened the hearing at 8:00 p.m. Mr. Raynor read the notice of hearing and presented proofs of publication from the Long Island Traveler - Watchman and the Suffolk Times. Mr. Wickham went over the checklist and looked through the file. Mr. Barnett's recommendations (in file) were read over. Mr. Wickham: Those that are familiar with the area know that the whole area is very low. At this time, I will open the hearing to anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition to the subdivision known as Sound Shore Acres owned by Louis Hodor in Arshamomaque. Hearing none, I will ask for those that wish to be heard in favor. Mr. 01sen: This file has been before the board for some time. We submitted a number of sketch plans. We were involved with the possible widening of the North Road and we have made the adjust- ment. There was some talk about locating the park and playground area so it would adjoin with the adjoining subdivision We did, at some point, receive some notification that we could go ahead with the preliminary map. All lots comply with the minimum town standards and I am respectfully requesting that the board would look favorably on this application. Mr. Coyle: Do you have a contract with the Village of Greenport? (This statement referred to the Village supplying water to subdivision) Mr. 01sen: I have a letter dated April 26th from James Monsell saying they would prepare a legal agreement between the Village and the developer. Mr. Wickham: I would like to call to the attention of the attorney that on this map there are substantial areas in several lots that are below the four foot contour with elevations four foot above sea level. There is one two foot contour showing here although they are not of any consequence. The points brought up by the Plar~uing Board -3- ~ly 12, 1976 District Conservationist are very pertinent and will have to be cranked into our thinking. Mr. Raynor: This subdivision also falls within the fire well regulations. Check with Mr. Monsell so he understands. Mr. Coyle: Is the percentage of high land equal to the amount for a building lot? Certainly some of these lots fall within the flood plain and we are serving notice on the developer that there may be some problems here. Mr. Wickham: There being no one else wishing to be heard, I declare the hearing closed. Babcock & Rimmler. Gary Olsen, Esq. appeared. Southold Gardens Mr. Wickham opened the hearing at 8:30 p.m. Mr. Raynor read the Notice of Hearing and presented proofs of publication from the Long Island Traveler - Watchman and the Suffolk Times. At this hearing, there was a sizeable contingent of people from the Calves Neck, Hills Road area (about 20). Mr. Wickham: This is a subdivision and I have a checklist showing that twelve copies of the map have been received. (Mr. Wickham went over the checklist). (~e read the following letter from the Superintendent of Highways). February 23, 1976 Gentlemen: I concur with the engineer on his recommendation of two proposed leaching pools to be constructed on the south end of the subdivision for Babcock and Rimmler located in Southold. /s/ Raymond C. Dean Supt. of Highways The following letter was read from the Town Attorney dated November 26, 1975. Dear Sirs: With respect to the above sketch plan, I have been asked to give the Planning Board au opinion with respect to the Town's obliga- tion concerning the roads and drainage within the proposed subdivision. With respect to the ~mprovement of Harper Road, since this is an unimproved town highway, it is my opinion that the Planning Board as a condition to the approval of a subdivision map cannot require the developer to suitably this highway. Enclosed herewith is a copy of an Opinion of the State Comptroller (21 Opinion State Planning Board -4- Ju. 12, 1976 Comptroller 73 - 1965) in which the Comptroller in a case similar to the case in question was of the opinion that the developer cannot be compelled to make the improvement. With respect to drainage, it is my opinion that the Planning Board may require the developer to install drainage facilities to alleviate drainage problems arising within the subdivision. I do not believe that the Planning Board can compel the developer to install drainage facilities to rectify a drainage condition cause~by a condition outside of the subdivision. /s/ Robert W. Tasker The following letter under date of August 25, 1975 to the Supt. of Highways was read: Dear Mr. Dean: Enclosed please find sketch plan of a subdivision for Babcock and Rimmler located in Southold. The engineer has indicated two proposed leaching pools in this subdivision and we would like Larry's recommendations as well as your feeling on it. At our meeting on August 18th, Mr. Olsen indicated that Mr. Babcock is willing to put in the extension of Mechanic Street as far as lot 7. He would be willing to cut it, put in bankrun and a culvert so the Town can surface it. Permission is necessary from the Town Board so that he could proceed with this plan but we would appreciate your comments. /s/ Muriel Brush, Secretary Southold Town Planning Board Mr. Wickham: As can be seen, the Plauning Board has been concerned about this because it is an unimproved town highway and this always presents problems. Rather than going into any other discussion,at this time I will open the hearing to those that wish to speak in opposition to this subdivision. There are ll.4 acres and it is proposed to put in nine lots and a, roughly, 26,000 square foot park and recreation area. These will be residential lots only. We will now hear from anyone in opposition to this subdivision. Ray Dickerson: I am not in opposition. Are they going to raise Mechanic Street by the Dickerson property? Mr. Wickham: We proposed this and the subdivide~ said they were willing. There comes a time when we find out what legally can be done. Mr. Dickerson: Our property isn't very high and if they raise that, I don't know what will happen. Planning Board -5- July 2, 1976 Mr. Raynor: They would not go outside the property lin~themselves. Mr. Dickerson: If they raise that road, there will be a dike in front of us. This is only if they raise it. I am not opposed to the plans. Mr. Wickham: We have had some discussion and it appears that the developer would be willing to put in the extension of Mechanic Street as far as lot number 7. He would cut it in and put bankrun and a culvert and then ask the Town to surface it. Permission from the Town Board is necessary to put in that part of the road. Whatever is done must be done only upon permission of the Town Board. Mr. Dickerson: What will it do in front of us if they do it? Clifford Sahm: It seems to me that the subdivision is not complete. It is if this and if that or the Town will pave it. I think subdivisions should be a little more specific so the Planning Board knows and the Town Board knows and you don't get in the middle of something and wind up with a pool like is in Hill Road now. I can visualize this problem. I think it should be complete. Mr. Dean's department is limited and I don't know what the cost is going to be to pave it. That is just a suggestion, sir. Mr. Wickham: May I say, this is a preliminary. Your comments are pertinent. Legally, the Planning Board has about four options. They may reject it, they may approve it or they may approve with conditions and, invariably, this is the course we take. We approve with conditions or we reject with reasons. We welcome this sort of thing because we know there is a problem. Carl Schwarz: We have five lots in Calves Neck and ever since that West Hill Road went through and I don't know whose fault it is but we are going through ice and a foot of water every so often. I have the problem right in back of my house. I don't sand because it goes away by itself. There will be more water coming down there and I don't think anything should be done until this problem is settled. No additional water should come down there. Mr. Wickham: You are talking about a different location on West Hill Road and we have recognized this. Mr. Schwarz: And nothing has been done. Mr. Wickham: It isn't our purpose to defend past actions but we have told the developers that there is a problem and that they will have to provide adequate drainage and we haven't ascertained what adequate drainage is but this is one of the conditions. Frankly, the Planning Board is pleased to have you say these things. It enforces our position. Is there anyone else that wishes to be heard? Plarnaing Board -6- J~ y 12, 1976 Dan Smith: If they do extend Mechanic Street up through there, Mechanic Street is very narrow and if the cars happen to be on both sides of the road, you can just barely get through. We suggest before that the traffic should be routed one way to Youngs Avenue and Mechanic Street be one way on the way down or it will be a mess with traffic going both ways. Mr. Wickham: You would like to see one-way traffic there? Mr. Smith: It is one way to Petty's blacksmith shop. The road is narrow now and once in awhile, cars get stuck. Mr. Wickham: At the present time, the Planning Board has felt that this is a town highway, at the present time, regardless of whether it has been cut through. It is possible with some control that it will help to alleviate the traffic problem in Southold Village if it is done properly. Mrs. Schwarz: As far as West Hill Road is concerned, I see it is a private road. Will you define private road to me. It is used just like any other road and it is marked a private road. Mr. Wickham: Roads in subdivisions are private until such time as they are dedicated, to the Town of Southold. At this time, the Planning Board requires that every road in every subdivision be constructed to Town specifications so that it is available to be dedicated at any time. The Town Board put some strings on there and said we can't accept dedication until the assessed valuation is a certain amount of money and until the highway has gone through two or three winters and proves to have no problems. I suspect that they feel that this roads has some problems. Mrs. Schwarz: think anything owns the road? Our cars are frozen in in the wintertime. I don't should be done until this road is passable. Who Mr. Wickham: It belongs to a previous subdivision on the creek. Do you have a property owners' association? Gentleman: If this keeps up, we will. Mr. Wickham: We now will not accept subdivisions unless they say that provision is made for a property owners' association which will take over the highways. Harry Becht: Ahlers owns that private road. How do we resolve this? He doesn't own any property. Mr. Wickham: The person who owns that road still lives in the Town of Southold. This is not the time for this board to resolve your problems. You have a legal problem. Gentleman: This is all up hill. After every rain there all the water comes down to this road. Planning Board -7- ~ ~y 12, 1976 Mr. Wickham: This developer is thinking of providing access for these lots on a private road that he doesn't own or control. He has a problem. Gentleman: You are going to have more water. You can watch the water coming from the library on the way down here. You will have twice the water. It will be flooded from here to here. Mr. Wickham: At this time, I would like to ask anyone that wishes to speak in favor of this subdivision. Mr. Olsen: This subdivision has been reviewed by the board with preliminary sketches. There are in this subdivision eleven acres with nine lots all of which exceed or comply with the minimum town standards as far as area. We have provided a park and recreation area. The subdivision complies with the rules and regulations of the Town of Southold and I would request that the board give favorable approval. Mr. Raynor: It will require covenants and restrictions for all oversized lots that they will not be further subdivided. Mr. Wickham: I think it is important to recognize the comments that have been presented tonight are pertinent to the drainage on both the north and south end of the subdivision and they reenforce the statements that the Planning Board has made about the seriousness of this. I will say, at this time, that I think in the past we have felt that the proposed leaching pools on Hill Road West were probably not adequate under the circumstances and I think it has been borne out tonight that this is the case. If this Hill Road West is maintained as a private road or becomes impassable because of the water condition, then your developer has a problem. Lot #6 would have a problem. If there is nothing else, I will declare this hearing closed and I want to thank all of you that have come out to present your ideas and reenforcing the opinion of the Planning Board. Long Pond Estates. Richard Cron, Esq. appeared. As to recommendation #7 in the County recommendations, it was agreed to pick up 150 feet on Short Drive for the one lot and have the other on Laurel Avenue. Recommendation #12 was discussed with Mr. Tuthill, P. E. and that will be worked out the way the town wants it. Youngs Boatyard & Marina. Howard Zehner, P. E., appeared. Security lights were recommended and 70 or 80 feet to the south be cleared of underbrush to increase visibility on the curve. A dustfree driveway should be maintained. Planning Board -8- J~ y 12, 1976 On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED to grant site plan approval of map of property of Howard H. Zehner situate at Arshamomaque, said map dated 7/9/76, subOect to final inspection by the chairman to be accemplished July 13, 1976. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Grebe, Gordon. Mr. Grebe made a motion, seconded by Mr. Coyle and carried to approve the minutes of the meeting of June 21, 1976. Macari subdivision. Gary 01sen, Esq. had requested earlier in the e~ening that some determination be made on this subdivision. It was the opinion of the Planning Board that the developer should hire a traffic expert and give us one opinion ~n the proper intersection and location on Sound Avenue as it appears to be very dangerous. Washburn - from the Board of Appeals. These people had made application for a variance to set off lot on private right-of-way and approval of access. It was the Planning Board's opinion that in view of the fact that they have four acres of property, it should be a minor subdivision rather than sell one lot at a time. Blue Horizons. There was a question posed by the engineer for this subdivision. The Planning Board had requested a flat lot for the park and playground area while the County Pl~uning Department had suggested that the pond area be the park ~nd playground. The Planning Board agreed that the park and playground area should be the pond, said park and playground area to be deeded to a property owners' association eventually. KOA. The Chairman reported that he, the Building Inspector, the chairman of the Board of Appeals and the Town Board would meet on this the next day. Planning Board -9- J~ -~ 12, 1976 Cutchogue Polish Democratic Club change of zone application. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to recommend to the Town Board DENIAL of the application of Cutchogue Polish Democratic Club to change property owned by them on Depot Lane, Cutchogue, New York, from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "C" Light Industrial District. The Planning Board would recommend approval of a change to "B" Light Business District in conformity with the development plan and because there is "B" zoned property immediately adjacent as well as across the street from this property. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Grebe, Gordon. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was RESOLVED to hold a public hearing on map of minor subdivision of property known as "Rod 'n' Reel Estates Co." dated June 4, 1976, located at Arshamomaque, New York. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Grebe, Gordon. On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was RESOLVED ~o give final approval to the map of subdivision known as "Soundview Acres at Orient" and authorize the chairman to sign the map. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Grebe, Gordon. On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was ~SOLVED to hold a public hearing on the final map of subdivision known as "Paradise by the Bay" owned by John Rath located at Southold, New York. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Grebe, Gordon. The Town Attorney is to be consulted as to the definition of a "block". Planning Board -10- ,t~ly 12, 1976 Hermine Hillmer. On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED to approve the sketch plan of the minor subdivision of Hermine Hillmer amended January 29, 1976 on property located at East Marion, New York, subject to metes and bounds being placed on the map. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Grebe, Gordon. The secretary was directed to write a letter to the fire commissioners in Orient, New York, regarding their position on cross-circulation in Orient. A petition containing 433 names was received by the Southold Town Planning Board from the Baymen's Association. The petition stated: "We, the undersigned, fishermen of the Town of Southold, New York, request that a change or addition to the Town Zoning Code (particularly Article III, Section 100-30) be made. We ask for the same type of privilege that the agricultural community has: the right to make and store fish nets, lobster pots and other necessities of our work on our own property or the property we lease. We also request that our boats be permitted at our own docks or docks which we rent. We base this request on the assumption that mariculture and agriculture are one and the same, i.e. that farming of the land and farming of the sea are identical in our fishing and agricultural community." The Board will further study this petition. The next meeting will be held August 2, 1976 with a meeting to be arranged on Fishers Island for August 18, 1976. The subdivision of property of Ted Dowd is to be referred to the Soil Conservation District of the Department of Agriculture. The Flood Insurance Study for the Town of Southold, New York, was distributed to the members. Mr. Wickham stated that it is obvious the Army Corps of Engineers did not look at the recommendations sent to them by the Southold Town Planning Board. The Board feels it is completely inadequate. Plauning Board -11- ~ ~y 12, 1976 Motion was made by Mr. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Raynor and carried that the Chairman be authorized to write a strong letter of protest regarding the preliminary Flood Insurance Study prepared by the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers, New York District. There being no further business to come before the Board, motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Grebe and carried that the meeting be adjourned. Meeting was adjourned at 10:50 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Murie~l~Brus~~', Secretary