HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-08/22/1977D
JOHN WlCKHAM, Chairman
FRANK S. COYLE
HENRY E. RAYNOR, Jr.
FREDERICK E. GORDON
JAMES WALL
Southold, N.Y. 11971
TELEPHONE
765-1938
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was
held August 22, 1977 at 7:30 p.m. at the Town Hall, Main Road,
Southold, New York.
Present were:
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry E. Raynor, Jr., Vice-Chairman
Frank S. Coyle
Frederick E. Gordon
Absent:
James Wall, inclement weather
7:30 p.m. Public Hearing for minor subdivision of Shirley Saland.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing and presented proof of
publication from the Long Island Traveler-Watchman.
Mr. Wickham: I have in the file sketch plan approval on July 18th
granted by this board. I have the surveyor's description and the
date it was received, July 20th, the receipt for the fee and the
application. This is a minor subdivision of two lots which is
adjacent to the Hillmer property. It is customary in hearings to
ask for those that wish to be heard in opposition to this hearing.
John Gillis: I am a resident of Nassau Point and president of the
Nassau Point Civic Association. Our position is really not in
opposition but an attempt to highlight a particular problem character-
istic of the Nassau Point area. That is the extreme concern we all
have as to the limited amount of water available to our area. The
subdivision of plots that are not already lots on a filed map will
all have the effect of utilization of this property for homes. We
are not necessarily in opposition to the Saland subdivision. It
seems they meet the requirements. What we would like to do is
alert you for this evening that there exists a very serious problem
on Nassau Point and whether the situation lies in creating a larger
zoning or in not allowing building on all the available land that
exists. It appears that the land cannot support it. We hope in
the future to present you with data that will convince you that the
Planning Board has the Ourisdiction to consider the public health,
welfare problems that exist. We will attempt in the months to come
to give you the information to consider on future applications.
Planning Board -2- August 22, 1977
Mr. Wickham: I want to say, for the record, that the board is
aware that the water situation on Nassau Point is extremely
critical and there are people in this room that I know have had
to move their wells and your point is very well taken. We are
aware of it. At this stage in the game, we are not prepared to
say certain steps will be taken. I want to say for the record that
the town has been considering for several years the necessity of
establishing a water district to serve Nassau Point and New Suffolk
and other areas where the water situation is critical. Does anyone
else wish to be heard in opposition or comments in general to this
subdivision.
Mrs. Hermine Hillmer: We have a problem. There are only 26 feet
between our library and the borderline. Mrs. Saland told me, I
have it in writing, that we could buy that one lot which would be
just what we needed. My husband was taken to the hospital. I
called up her son and said, David, I am coming over and we will
straighten it out. I got a letter the next day that the lot was
sold. I was upset because Mrs. Saland knew we needed that corner.
She knew we were willing to pay the price and we were not going to
close unless something was done about the situation. We were told
before anything was sold we would have priority and we were not.
Mr. Wickham: Thank you. As a general rule, this board does not
make any decision when there is a controversy until the controversy
is settled. This is our general rule. In this case, I don't know.
Is there anyone else that wishes to speak in opposition to this
subdivision or make general comments before I call on those that
wish to speak in favor of this subdivision. Hearing none, I will
ask for those that wish to speak in favor.
Mrs. Saland: I have a list of correspondence. I think the matter
that Mrs. Hillmer brought up does not belong here. She is not
exactly truthful that they were willing to pay the price. I do
feel that the map meets the specifications. The point the gentle-
man made is well taken, but due to the fact that there are numerous
maps on the market I don~t see, where it meets the criteria.
Mr. Wickham: This board has repeatedly put off action until legal
points are met.
Mrs. Saland: Legally, the Hillmers purchased that property. This
property is not mine. I am acting for Joe. I was not in attendance.
I think this matter should have been taken care of at that time
and not now.
Mr. Wickham: Is there anyone else that wishes to be heard. At
this point, I will declare the hearing closed and we will discuss
this further.
Mr. Raynor: Have you had an opportunity to speak to the Board of
Appeals concerning your group's concern over the water situation in
Nassau Point?
Mr. Gillis: No, we haven't. It would appear to me that it is a
very serious problem and rightfully lies within your board being
Planning Board -3- ~ugust 22, 1977
concerned with public health and safety. If what I have been led
to believe is correct, I would like to present to your board a
change to larger zoning to protect those owners that live on Nassau
Point because the situation could develop so that there would not
be useable water.
Mr. Coyle: Before you close out, the lots should be numbered in
some ma~er.
Mr. Wickham: The Planning Board requires that all lots be numbered
on subdivision maps. To go back to Mr. Gillis' statement, I think
you know that this board is well aware of this and very concerned
and I want to say for the record that as much as a year and a half
ago, this board recommended to the Town Board that they should give
serious consideration to more restrictive zoning on areas where
we had water problems. This board would be glad to have any
recommendation that you might have either for larger area zoning
or anything else you might feel would be a reasonable approach to
a very critical problem. The well driving and plumbing establish-
ments in our area are friends of mine and I know I have at least
second-hand knowledge of how serious the problem is.
Eli~ah's Lane Estates. Mr. Wickham read the recommendations of
the Town~ Engineer, Edward Bage. Howard Young, P. E. presented
seven copies that he has amended in accordance with the memorandum
of Edward Bage. The only changes are in the grade of the roads and
the cul-de-sac. Mr. Young said there could be a deed and easement
to the town. Mr. Wickham wants to explore it with the town attorney
and the county planning. A gentleman who owns one of the corner
lots asked a question of the board regarding the road. Mr. Wickham
said this matter will take quite awhile because it has to go to the
Highway Superintendent and the Town Board Highway Committee.
7:55 p.m. Public Hearing on the preliminary map of Kouros Acres.
Edward Boyd V, appeared. Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of
hearing and presented proof of publication in the Long Island Traveler-
Watchman.
Mr. Wickham: This is a major subdivision. The fee has been paid.
We have looked at it several times and made several recommendations.
The sketch plan was first approved October 15, 1976. There are no
highways involved. It is within the required distance of salt
water to require submission to the County. The file seems to be in
order. At this time, the Board will listen to anyone that wishes
to be heard in opposition to this subdivision in New Suffolk on
Grathwohl Road. Hearing none, I will ask for anyone that wishes to
be heard in favor.
Mr. Boyd: I am representing the applicant. If there are any further
questions that the Planning Board has, I would be glad to answer
them. I think we have gone over it quite thoroughly in the past.
Planning Board -4- August 22, 1977
Mr. Wickham: Have you filed a copy of the covenants and restrictions?
Mr. Boyd: Yes,
not be further
of the lots.
I have. I believe it was only that the lots would
subdivided and I included that with each and every one
Mr. Wickham: It is acceptable. The Board wants to make the point
that this is a preliminary hearing and that in all cases of major
subdivisions the Board has in the past required a final hearing and
it is expected that another hearing will be held on this subdivision
in the required time. I will declare the hearing closed at this
time.
Mr. Boyd: When can I expect a final hearing?
Mr. Wickham: Keep in touch with Mrs. Brush until we hear from the
County.
Mr. Boyd: We are looking for an October 12th date.
Mr. Wickham: Some of these things are out of our hands.
Mr. Fellinger-Ihar Woodbine Manor. Mr. and Mrs. John Fellinger-Ihar,
Howard Young, P. E.,
Mr. Young said that Mr. Barnett of the Soil & Water Conservation
District said they have to have vertical sand drains. He noted
that the calculations have been amended in accordance with their
calculations. The only test boring was on lot #20. Mr. Wickham
asked if the top grade of the sand drain is a foot below grade and
Mr. Young said it would be about three feet below the existing grade.
Mr. Wickham said they are using these more and more in agriculture
to do precisely this but they use the sand drain at the same grade.
It is not something brand new but is the first subdivision that has
used them. Mr. Wickham said he is pleased to see these because they
have been proven in agriculture. Mr. Young said it is being shown
in a national magazine and he would send a copy to Mr. Wickham. Mr.
Wickham said he would appreciate a copy as this has to be presented
to the Highway Committee and the Highway Superintendent. Mr.
Raynor asked if cross sections were going to be provided for the
grassed waterways that are shown going east and west. Mr. Young
said they had proposed to have these approximately 12 feet wide and
l0 inches deep. They are going to have to vary according to the
volume of the water. Mr. Raynor requested some type of rendering,
a prototype. He asked what type of grass has been found to be
favorable. Mr. Young said he had spoken with Mr. Mann this morning
and he had said practically any type of grass. Mr. Ihas said it
would be creeping fescue and blue grass mixed. Mr. Raynor discussed
either bonding large enough or long enough to make sure the system
works.
Sundowner site plan. David True appeared. The Planning Board would
like a list of the property owners. A letter from the building
inspector will be necessary regarding the amount of square footage
Planning Board -5- August 22, 1977
in proportion to the parking provided and whether it is sufficient.
Outside lighting must be shown. Ingress and egress, because of
minimum width, should be one way only and designated on the plan.
If the curbing is there, it should be so indicated. The Town
Engineer will be asked to check on the drainage for the rear of
the property. Grade specifications will have to be shown.
Walter Gatz cluster subdivision. Mr. Gatz appeared. The one foot
is still shown on the map. Mr. Raynor said an area should be shown
as park and playground. There was discussion regarding 17 rather
than 18 lots.
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to grant sketch plan approval to the cluster realty
subdivision of Walter Gatz at Mattituck, New York, dated August
26, 1976 and amended July ll, 1977.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Gordon, Coyle
Pat Drossos appeared before the Planning Board to request that
her patrons be allowed to park on the other side of the Main Road
(south side).
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED that temporary approval be granted Patricia Drossos
for restaurant parking on the south side of the Main Road on
business property owned by Mrs. Drossos, subject to presentation
of proof of a signed lease or statement from Long Island Lighting
Company that they are willing to provide permanent parking. This
permission is granted for sixty days.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
Peconic Knolls. Mr. Nelson Axien appeared before the board to
complain about the grade of the road in the subdivision and the
drainage. He also requested that the travelled road be shown on
the filed map.
Walter Washburn Estate. Mr. William Schriever and Charles Cuddy,
Esq., appeared. Mr. Cuddy said they had a meeting with all the
people and have agreed in principle and have a letter from Mr. Smith.
They want to form a group to have the road in joint ownership for
maintenance purposes. There was much discussion regarding the extent
to which the right-of-way should be improved.
Planning Board -6- August 22, 1977
Country Club Estates. Gary Olsen, Esq. appeared.
Mr. Olsen presented 6 copies of sketch map of this subdivision.
They wish to put in vertical drains and swales. The roads will be
60 feet wide to keep the swales in the roadway. The Planning Board
said that the oversized lot cannot be further subdivided and should
maintain its residential character. Mr. Wickham said he would not
allow the holding of an area which sometime later may be zoned B
or M or something like that. One of the principles present who did
not give me his name asked if they could make it section B. Mr.
Wickham said he would make them sign an agreement that section 2
would be developed at some time in the future as A zoning. Mr.
Olsen asked why the Planning Board would get involved in that. Mr.
Wickham said the Board has always done this. It is uniform practice
and people are held to it. The gentleman asked about someone coming
along and having a use in line with residential and Mr. Wickham said
Phil had told the board that his son was interested in a tree farm.
Babcock & Rimmler. The Board reviewed the sketch plan and, after
calculations, Mr. Wickham said it appears that the total number of
lots should be l0 and a minor fraction. The map shows ll lots.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to grant sketch plan approval to the map of Peter
Kalamaras, said map dated July 7, 1977, subject to 100 foot setback
from the bluff being shown on the map, covenants and restrictions
being filed that the property will never be resubdivided and
inspection of the right-of-way by the Town Engineer.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
Fitzsimmons. Referral from the Board of Appeals. Mr. Radford
appeared. ThiS matter was discussed as the Board of Appeals granted
a variance for a lot containing 40,000 square feet but only having
a llO foot frontage. The Board didn't feel that 150 feet on the
highway would pose any problem to property owners because the two
lots remaining would not be granted access to Route 25 but would
have access from the interior road.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to grant sketch plan approval to the map of the
subdivision known as "Soundwood Farm" located at Mattituck, New
York, said map dated October 27, 1976 and amended March 8, 1977,
subject to the following:
1. Because of the inadequacy of highway circulation, special
provisions will have to be made to guarantee adequacy.
Planning Board -7- August 22, 1977
2. Highways be built to Town Highway specifications without
any waivers.
3. Highways be made available for dedication to the Town of
Southold when the Town of Southold will accept them for dedication.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
Mrs. Hillmer is to be informed that the Planning Board would
like her to present to them within two weeks the documents she
allegedly has concerning the minor subdivision of Shirley Saland.
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Coyle, ~it was
RESOLVED to approve the roads in the subdivision "Eli~ah's
Lane Estates" as shown on amended preliminary map dated July 28,
1977 and outlined in report #213 of Edward Bage, Town Engineer,
subject to approval by the Town Attorney.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
Mr. Fellinger-Ihar is to be informed that the Planning Board
will require profiles of the grassways and a sketchof the vertical
sand drain.
Mr. Tasker, Town Attorney, is to be contacted regarding the
travelled road in the subdivision "Peconic Knolls" and why it is
necessary to be shown on the filed map.
The subdivision of the Estate of Walter Washburn was again discussed.
The Planning Board decided that the right-of-way across lot #3
should be 15 feet wide by 75 feet into the lot for access for lot
#2. The right-of-way should be 15 feet wide from Bay Avenue west
for a distance of 190 feet and 30 feet wide for 121 feet adjacent
to the Long Island Lighting Company easement.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to recommend to the Southold Town Board denial of
application #234 of William and Barbara Schriever for a change of
zone on property situated at Orient, New York, from "A" Residential
and Agricultural District to "B" Light Business District based on
the following:
Planning Board -8- August 22, 1977
1. Rezoning of this property would constitute spot zoning.
2. Improper use of the property because of potential traffic
hazard with reference to 0ysterponds Union Free School District.
3. It is inconsistent with the Southold Tow~ development plan.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
The Planning Board discussed the application of Ernest E. Wilsberg
(Orient Point Water Company) Water Supply Application #6757, DEC
#15274-0059. The applicant proposes to construct a water supply
system for the purpose of furnishing water to a proposed subdivision
that will consist of 38 plots. The subdivision will be located on
approximately 52 acres situated at the extreme east end of Orient
Point. The last date for objections to be filed is September 6,
1977. The Planning Board objects to a water system being located
in this area because it is too close to the subdivision Land's End
and freshwater resources at this particular point is particularly
limited. The acquifer is very shallow because of the narrowness
of the peninsular. It is the feeling of the Planning Board that
concentrated pumping as proposed would seriously interfere with
the wells of existing homes in the adjacent subdivision.
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
RESOLVED that the Barzac property conforms with the site plan
presented and approved with the exception of the lighting on the
sign instead of the building which is acceptable.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
An inspection has been made of Colonial Corners. The exterior
lighting is sufficient. The parking seems inadequate.
On motion made by Mr. Wickham, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to hold a public hearing on the final map of the
subdivision known as "Heritage Harbor".
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to approve the map of the subdivision of Dr. Meyer
Rosenberg located at Peconic, map dated February 16, 1977 and
amended June 21~ 1977, said map to be signed upon receipt of filed
Planning Board -9- August 22, 1977
covenants and restrictions as to no further subdivision of the
property.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle~ Gordon
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
RESOLVED to disapprove the map of the minor subdivision of
property of Folly Beach Limited based on the disapproval of the
Suffolk County Planning Commission.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor~ it was
RESOLVED to deny Planning Board approval to Appeal #2310 of
Marion D. Fitzsimmons as granted by the Board of Appeals. This
denial is based on the fact that the Board of Appeals has granted
a variance for llO foot frontage on a piece of property where
there is additional frontage available as it is presumed that the
two remaining lots on the Main Road will have the 150 feet required
on the access road.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor. Coyle, Gordon
The file of James Bitses subdivision to be known as Old Towne Park
was reviewed including the recommendations of the Southold Town
Conservation Advisory Council. This matter will again be referred
to the Town Board for their approval of a cluster concept subdivision.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to approve the minutes of the meetings of July 18
and August 17, 1977.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
The next meeting of the Planning Board will be held September
19, 1977.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to request Lawrence Tuthitl, Town Engineer, to prepare
a bond estimate for the subdivision "Blue Horizons".
Planning Board -10- August 22, 1977
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
A letter has been received from the Suffolk County Department of
Public Works under signature of Pio Massetti, Principal Environmental
Analyst regarding the construction of the Greenport, L~ng Island
Railroad Dock for recreational purposes. There is a request for
comments from the Southold Town Planning Board. It was the
consensus of the Planning Board that in view of the fact that
Greenport is part of the Town of Southold, it has its oWn Planning
Board and the Southold Town Planning Board respectfuIly suggests
that it is within their jurisdiction.
Wiederman & Gilowski minor subdivision #89. The Planning Board
requests that the right-of-way be constructed at a 30 foot width
and 100 feet into lot #4 as per the specifications of Edward Bage,
Town Engineer.
Motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon and
carried that the meeting be adjourned. Meeting adjourned at
12:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitt~
hn Wickham, Chairman