HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-09/19/1977D
JOHN W1CKHAM, Chairman
FRANK S. COYLE
HENRY E. RAYNOR, Jr.
FREDERICK E. GORDON
JAMES WALL
Southold, N,Y, 11971
TELEPHONE
765- 1938
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held
September 19, 1977 at 7:30 p.m. at the Town Hall, Main Road,
Southold, New York.
Present were:
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry E. Raynor, Jr., Vice-Chairman
Frank S. Coyle
Frederick E. Gordon
James Wall
7:30 p.m. Public Hearing for final map of the subdivision known
as Heritage Harbor, owned by Riverside Homes, Inc.
Mr. Haynor read the legal notice of hearing from the Suffolk
Times newspaper. There was no proof of publication received.
Mr. Wickham: The legal notice, our copy says 94.35, the map says
94.36. It is a very slight difference. We do not have proof of
publication, notarized proof, but the legal notice was read by
the vice-chairman from the Suffolk Times and, apparently, the
proof of publication is in the mail, but it was published.
Going over the file, on September 6, 1977, the action of the
Planning Board was to resolve to hold a public hearing. There's
a permit from the County Board of Health, a certificate of approval
of realty subdivision plan by the County Board of Health. We have
approval of the preliminary map of the subdivision with the
restriction under date of March 25th. Notices of the public hearing
for the preliminary under date of January 21st. Letter from the
Suffolk County Department of Planning. Item 3 says there are
three aspects of the map that could have an adverse impace upon
the town. The zoning line goes through lot l0 ~nd this should be
changed. The southeast corner of Westphalia Road and Cox Neck
Lane, a short radius curve should be provided. On proposed road
corner radii should be provided. This says these are staff
comments and do not constitute a review. When the map is finalized,
it should be presented to the Commission for review. We have a
letter from the Planning Board's engineer to the Superintendent of
Highways about additional catch basins and so forth. Looking at
Planning Board -2- Sep~ ~ber 19, 1977
the map, there is no highway construction so approval of the
Highway Superintendent is not required.
Mr. Raynor: Do we have an affidavit of ownership?
Mr. Wickham: The file seems to be relatively complete. I haven't
found whether or not the fees were paid.
Secretary: They were.
Mr. Wickham: In general, it seems to be in order. We will
require a disclosure statement as to the ownership but this has
been before us for over a year and a half. At this time, I will
ask for anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition to this
subdivision, known as Heritage Harbor located at Mattituck, New
York, and owned by Riverside Homes, Inc.
Mr. Adamson, an adjacent property owner, asked to see a copy of
the map.
Mr. Wickham: Hearing none, is there anyone that wishes to speak
in favor of the map?
Michael Hills, Esq.: On behalf of the applicants, we would just
say that if there is no disclosure statement, we will provide it
in the next week. Since it has been a long time and we have
tried to comply with the board's requests, we ask for it to be
approved.
Mr. Raynor: I don't see any notation about the use being in the
high use district.
Mr. Hills: We will furnish it to you. It will be in the deed
restrictions.
Mr. Raynor: Have you heard from the engineer?
Secretary: He should bring in his report tonight.
Mr. Adamson: What provisions are made for the recreation area?
What about that right-of-way?
Mr. Hills: You don't use that right-of-way now, do you?
Mr. Adamson: Yes.
Mr. Hills: We can't restrict your use of it and we are going to
have to pave it. It will be better than it is at the present
time.
Mr. Raynor: What we usually do is send out the engineer from the
board and he will take some soil samples and decide on the
permeability of the soil and come up with what type of ground
cover should be put in and whether or not it should be dug out to
a certain depth for good drainage and adequate access.
Planning Board -3- Sep~ nber 19, 1977
Mr. Adamson: So, basically, we will be protected when, say, they
put a house on either side of the right-of-way that we will end
up with a drain. We are, as you see, inbetween. That will be
taken care of so we won't have to worry in the future.
Mr. Raynor: With the amount of square footage involved and the
permeability of the soil will absorb almost all of it.
Mr. Adamson: I did raise that grade with something like a hundred
yards of fill so I know there is a problem so if they do put a
house on either side and taper the grade to the right-of-way, we
will end up in a hollow again.
Mr. Wickham: This is going into the record and will be forwarded
to our engineer so he will be alerted to this. You had a question
on the park and recreation area. That is generally left open but
the town can require that there be playgrounds and so forth but
the usual procedure is we request that it be the property of a
property owners' association so that they are responsible for it
and it is maintained. Anything else on either side? Hearing
none, I will declare the hearing closed. Thank you very much.
Blue Dolphin site plan. Mr. Spinthourakis appeared. After
reviewing the plans presented to the building inspector, Mr.
Wickham told Mr. Spinthourakis to redraw the map to show what he
wants and resubmit.
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Wsll, it was
RESOLVED to approve the map of the minor subdivision of Alice S.
Sturges for property located at Fishers Island, New York, sub0e~
to the following:
1. Recommendations of the Suffolk County Planning Commission.
2. Covenants being filed in the Suffolk County Clerk's Office
as to no further subdivision of the property.
3. Assessory building will be allowed without cooking
facilities.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
8:00 p.m. Public Hearing on the preliminary map of subdivision
known as Woodbine Manor located at Cutchogue, New York, and owned
by Mr. and Mrs. John Fellinger-Ihar.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing and indicated that it
was published in the Suffolk Times on September 15, 1977.
Planning Board -4- Sep~ ~er 19, 1977
Mr. Wickham: We do not have proof of notice but it was read from
the newspaper. This is a hearing on a preliminary application and
this is a major subdivision of twenty-three lots and I notice that
the initial discussion and sketch plan with us was on the 28th of
August, 1973. We asked for a typical vertical sand drain and
grassed waterways and I have them before me by Young and Young
of Riverhead and we will look into that a little further later.
We have a letter from the Suffolk County Department of Planning.
Dear Mr. Wickham:
In accordance with your request t~e staff has examined the
proposed subdivision layout for a 26.4- acre tract reputedly owned
by John and Olivia Fellinger-Ihar and offer the following comment
on the map for your use.
The overall layout of the subdivision is considered to be
satisfactory. Measures, however, should be taken to insure that
no stormwater runoff resulting from the development and improvement
of Lots i and 2 will flow out onto Duck Pond Road where it can be
carried to Long Island Sound.
It is suggested that consideration be given to requiring a
short radius curve at the southeast corner of the intersection
formed by the intersection of Duck Pond Road with Birch Lane and
Vista Place. It is felt that turning movements around the corner
for northbound-eastbound vehicles will be facilitated by the
rounding of the corner.
Staff comments on a preliminary map do not constitute a
review of the map by the Suffolk County Planning Commission.
When the map has been finalized it should be referred to the
Commission for review pursuant to Section 1333 of the Suffolk
County Charter.
/s/ Charles G. Lind, Chief Planner
Subdivision Review Section
We have a letter from the Highway Department to the Planning
Board.
Gentlemen:
I recommend 100 feet of the two 10-foot rights-of-way leading
from Duck Pond Road to the proposed area be paved and lots 20 and
21 place driveways with access onto the rights-of-way.
/s/ Raymond C. Dean, Supt. of Highways
Sketch plan approval was granted July 18, 1977. I have a letter
to the highway superintendent from the Planning Board saying the
Planning Board gave sketch plan approval after a variance was
granted on lot 22. Sketch plan approval was granted July 18, 1977.
Under date of June l, 1977, the following letter was addressed to
the Town Board.
Planning Board -5- Sept~ oer 19, 1977
Dear Mr. Martocchia:
This letter is to confirm the understanding reached between your-
selves and Mr. and Mrs~ John Fellinger-Ihar at the Executive
Session of the Town Board held on May 24, 1977:
The Fellinger-Ihars shall donate to the Town of Southold approximately
one acre of land lying in the rear (easterly) portion of lots 20
and 21 of their proposed subdivision located on Duck Pond Road,
Southold, New York. In addition, the Fellinger-Ihars shall grant
a 20 foot wide drainage easement running from the easterly side of
Duck Pond Road easterly to the above one-acre parcel. The 20-foot
easement shall be located l0 feet on both sides of the property
line dividing lots 20 and 21 on the proposed subdivision map.
The Town of Southold shall, at its cost and expense, construct a
drainage sump or basin and necessary pipes or culverts to make
such basin operational, and that said construction shall be
completed within 6 months from the date of the conveyance by the
Fellinger-Ihars to the Town.
It is further understood and agreed between the parties, that the
sand basin as shown on the proposed subdivision map, located
toward the northerly end of the property, shall be eliminated,
and that the recharge basin to be constructed by the Town on the
donated property shall be the only drainage area necessary for the
final approval of the subdivision map, and also that the sand
basin shall become lot 22 on said proposed subdivision map.
It is further understood and agreed that the above agreement is
subject to and contingent upon the approval of the Southold
Planning Board, and any other governmental agency or body, having
jurisdiction over the filing of the subdivision map.
Please sign the enclosed copy of this letter and return same to
me in the enclosed envelope, if this accurately sets forth your
understanding.
~s/ Shepard M. Scheinberg
On April 21st, 1977, it was submitted to the Soil and Water
Conservation District for advice and assistance. We have letters
on the proposed cluster some time back. This was withdraw~.
There is a letter under date of January 2~, 1977 from the Soil
and Water Conservation District in Riverhead. I don't think
there is any point in going any further back. Here is another
one from the Soil and Water Conservation District dated October
l, 1973. We do not need to go any further back than that. We
seem to have some unfinished business with the town signing this
agreement but since this is the hearing on the preliminary map,
we will discuss that later. At this time, I will ask if there is
anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition to this subdivision.
John Krupski: I am a farmer and I have farmed on both sides of
this Woodbine Manor owned by Mr. Ihar and I am very much opposed
to this going in there because it will disturb my operation with
Planning Board -6- Sep~ mber 19, 1977
all these people coming in here and I am very concerned. We
want to keep people off Oregon Road as much as possible. It is
a good farming section and we don't want developments in there.
Frank McBride: My farm is less than 500 feet away from this
proposed subdivision. I am very much opposed to it. Oregon Road
is one of your last sections where you can ride and see
agriculture on both sides of the road. Thank you.
Mr. Wickham:
Heariug none,
favor of it.
Does anyone else wish to be heard in opposition?
I will ask for those that wish to be heard in
Shepard Scheinberg, Esq.: I speak on behalf of the Fellinger-
Ihars in favor of the proposed subdivision. I don't know what
more can be placed before this board. We have been before you
numerous times. We might be able to clarify certain items-.
Before we get into the items of clarification, the two gentlemen
that spoke in opposition, their opposition doesn't seem to go
into the basis of the subdivision but just the personal feelings
as to whether there should be or should not be development of the
area.
Mr. Wickham: You are treading on dangerous ground because the
town has said repeatedly that they want to keep agriculture and
what you are saying contradicts that.
Mr. Scheinberg: I think I have a feeling of contradiction as to
what the policies of the town might be. Everyone might want open
air but you must also look to see that you cannot stop the orderly
development of land. We have gotten this far, Mr. Wickham and
members of the board. As to the policies of the town not to grant
subdivisions, you should say no in the beginning and not wait
until we get to this point in time. I believe the opposition has
made their point and I have made my point on that particular
matter. I will be glad to answer any questions you might have.
Mr. Wickham: You have the shoe on the wrong foot. You are here
to present the thing.
Mr. Scheinberg: We have presented it. We have provided you with
the drainage and proposed covenants and restrictions.
Mr. Wickham: There is no question you have met all our require-
ments.
Mr. Scheinberg: As to why we should be granted a subdivision,
Mr. and Mrs. Fellinger-Ihar purchased this property a number of
years ago. They attempted to farm this land by growing grapes.
They were unable to successfully farm the property for grapes. As
a result, they found that economically they had no alternative
but to subdivide this property. This is the reason for them
going forward with the subdivision. Going back to your records,
you will find that a number of years ago they presented this board
with a sketch plan for a cluster type subdivision, again, trying
to keep in mind the open policy of the town, to keep a green belt.
Plauning Board -7- September 19, 1977
At that time, I believe, the Suffolk County Health Department
hadn't promulgated sufficient rules and regulations as to that
type of development. As a result, the Fellinger-Ihars presented
this type of development, again looking toward the policy of the
town as to trying to keep as much green as possible. The
Fellinger-Ihars have presented a plan of grass swales instead
of going to the conventional concrete gutters and curbs. I
believe this shows their intent to try to conform as closely as
possible to the policies as set forth by the town. I have nothing
more to say on that point.
Mr. Wickham: I believe the salient points in this have been
brought out. Is there anyone else wishing to make any statement
for or against or explanatory on the preliminary map of the
subdivision entitled Woodbine Manor in Cutchogue. I would be
glad to hear from them at this time. Hearing none, I will call
the hearing to a close and thank all of you interested because
the town is anxious to maintain a strong agriculture in the Town
of Southold and we are perhaps particularly concerned about these
long narrow subdivisions which pose a very real problem with dust
and fertilizer in connection with agricultural operations next
door, noise, irrigation and so forth. These pose very real
problems. I am glad all of this has been brought out.
Mr. McBride: We, the farmers in Southold, have been in the
process for the past year of making a New York State agricultural
district. We are within several months of this realization.
This will keep forever green this portion of the Oregon section
and certainly housing and farming don't work together.
Mr. Wickham: Thank you very much.
Kouros Acres. Edward Boyd V, Esq. appeared.
Mr. Boyd requested the release of lot #2. Mr. Wickham Said the
board would discuss it later. Mr. Boyd had no objection to the
recommendations of the Suffolk CountyPlanning Commission as to
relocation of lot lines and a short radius curve.
8:30 p.m. Public Hearing on the minor subdivision of Peter
Kalamaris as contract vendee, located at Cutchogue.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing from the Suffolk Times.
It was published on September 15, 1977.
Mr. Wickham: Going through the file, I have first the receipt for
the fee. I have the following letter to Mr. Lynch:
Dear Mr. Lynch:
The following action was taken by the Southold To~rn Planning
Board at a regular meeting held August 22, 1977.
Planning Board -8- Sept~.~er 19, 1977
RESOLVED to grant sketch plan approval to the map of Peter
Kalamaras, said map dated July 7, 1977, subject to 100 foot set-
back from the bluff being shovrn on the map, covenants and
restrictions being filed that the property will never be resub-
divided and inspection of the right-of-way by the Town Engineer.
I have forwarded the revised maps to the County Department
of Planning and will forward its comments to you upon receipt.
Mr. Wickham: I have a letter of transmittal to the county and,
apparently, we haven't heard from them yet. As is customary, I
will ask for anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition to this
subdivision of three lots locmted north of Oregon Road near
Cutchogue with 500 plus feet of Sound frontage. Does anyone wish
to be heard in opposition? I will now hear from anyone that
wishes to be heard in favor of it.
John Lynch, Esq.: Mr. Wickham indicated that this is a three-
lot minor subdivision. The large parcel, almost eight acres,
will be retained by the owner and he will build his own residence.
The other two are 2.76 and 2.27. In line with what I heard this
evening, this is a continuation of the larger parcels where we
will keep almost an eight-acre parcel which will remain green.
This would be in accordance with what I feel and a good many
people feel to have a good land use. The 100 foot setback from
the bluff sets the house back pretty far. The tree line is just
close to that line. There is 30 or ~0 feet. Of the subdivisions
I have been involved in, I am proud to bring this as I think it
is good and something that should be granted.
Mr. Wickham: There are two other things which should be, perhaps,
cranked into this. Nina Stevens, who owns the property immediately
adjacent, has an application for a subdivision and she has on her
subdivision map a continuing road and we don't know at this stage
where this would match up. I assume her road is a little further
south. We just haven't checked this so we will want to do this.
I see no real problem.
Mr. Lynch: Mr. Kalamaris did want to get started on the larger
parcel as soon as possible.
Mr. Wickham: I don't think there is a problem.
Mr. Raynor: Have you filed the covenant?
Mr. Lynch: He is the contract vendee. If I knew we were getting
the spinoff, we would get the title the next day.
Mr. Wickham: If this is approved, it could be approved later
tonight with conditions and you have the time. There is no point
in asking for a release. We have the report from the engineer.
We are trying to do something to have a uniform approach to
rights-of-way so we ask our engineer to make a determination and
recommendations. This is the engineer's recommendations.
There is an existing road in the right of way. It is composed
Planning Board -9- Septe~.~er 19, 1977
of bank run and must be widened. The road cannot be widened to
the easterly side because of a row of utility poles; therefore,
it must be widened to the westerly boundary of the right of way.
The existing road contains sufficient bank run and needs only
to be graded level.
The area to be improved should be stripped of vegetation and
covered with at least 6 inches of bank run with 25% gravel content.
/s/ Edward J. Bage, P. E.
Mr. Lynch: I don't know what the width is now.
Mr. Bage: You have about two or three feet on either side on
the westerly side. The road is so narrow, there is no way, if
you want to get an emergency vehicle down there, there is no way
without going through the plowed fields to get by. It should be
widened out to that boundary because it can't go to the east side
because of the row of utility poles.
Mr. Wickham: Does anyone else wish to be heard on this minor
subdivision. Hearing none. I will declare the hearing closed.
Sundowner site plan. David True and Steve Tsontakis, P. E.,
appeared.
Mr. Howard Terry, Building Inspector, is to be asked to look at
the parking again and recompute. The Planning Board would like a
copy of the state permit for curb cuts. They would also like Mr.
Dean, Supt. of Highways, comments.
Lloyd Terry minor subdivision. Mr. Terry appeared.
Mr. Terry showed the Planning Board a tentative map with two to
three acre lots on the Sound. He will have covenants not to
further subdivide. Mr. Wickham told Mr. Terry that the Planning
Board will have to have a covenant that each one of these cannot
be further subdivided so the purchasers will be bound by it.
This is our usual procedure. Mr. Terry said he can't speak for
his family. They may not want seven acres. This was referring
to a parcel on the road that Mr. Terry wants to retain. Mr.
Wickham said there is another thing the Planning Board sometimes
does. Sometimes they allow a person to make a minor subdivision
with four lots and covenant that the rest will be a major
subdivision in the future. Mr. Terry said he didn't care as long
as it didn't include his parcel. He has discussed the 6ovenants
with his prospective purchasers. It was suggested that he come
in with just the two lots on the Sound. There was discussion on
the width of the right-of-way to the lots on the Sound.
Planning Board -10- Sep. nber 19, 1977
Paradise-by-the-Sound - Time Structures, Inc. Roger Rath appeared.
Mr. Wickham read the letter from Lawrence Tuthill regarding erosion
at the Sound. Mr. Rath indicated there would be a revision on the
map presented in that they plan to make lots 4 and 6 larger and
eliminate lot 5 and road B. Mr. Raynor indicated he would like
to look at the property on the easterly side. The Planning Board
had asked Mr. Tuthill to explain his calculations on drainage
which were in answer to Young and Young calculations. Mr. Tuthill
has not yet replied to that request. Mr. Rath again discussed
the 100 foot setback requirement. He said that Charles Lind of
the Suffolk County Dept. of Planning would have his office make an
on-site inspection if the Southold Town Planning Board requested
a re-review. Mr. Wickham said the Planning Board would not back
away from the 100 foot requirement but the matter will be discussed
later in the evening again.
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to approve the site plan of Colonial Corners.
Inspection of the premises has been made and it conforms with
the approved site plan.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED that inspection has been made of the premises of
Circa Design and it conforms with the site plan. It is approved
with the provision that polyethurene liners be placed under the
wood chips in the area along the eastern driveway. There will
be a two-year review.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
EliOah's Lane Estates was discussed. The revision in the grades
of the roads has been discussed and approved by the Planning
Board and the Superintendent of Highways. The question on the
amendment of the map as filed to show a turnaround has been
resolved as the filed map shows provision for a 100 foot turnaround.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to hold a hearimg on the preliminary map of the
subdivision of Nina Stevens located at Cutchogue, New York.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Planning Board -ll- S~tember 19, 1977
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to grant permission to William Schriever, Executor
of the Washburn estate, and Mr. Radford to use the names "Marion
Lane" and "Marion Place" for streets in their subdivisions.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Motion was made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Coyle and
carried to approve the minutes of the meeting of August 22, 1977.
Robins Island presentation of proposed plans for development by
John Raynor, C. E. and Land Planner. Present were Dr. Thomas
Samuels; Lawrence Ingoglia; Joseph Lamberta, Attorney for Samuels
snd Ingoglia; Stanley Waimey; George Penny; Jack Driscoll; Meyer
Scheps, Attorney for John Mackay who is the owner.
Mr. Wickham announced that this meeting was for information only
and is not a public hearing. There are several suits pending and
much of what is said will go into the record. He urged everyone
to be cautious as some of the litigation may involve harrassment.
John Raynor, C. E. and Land Planner, represented Dr. Thomas Samuels
and Mr. Lawrence Ingoglia who are option vendees of Robins Island.
Following are some of his comments made in his presentation.
Access will be by means of car and passenger ferry from the east
side of First Street in New Suffolk. Inprovements will include
demolition of some of the existing buildings for short term
parking area for thirty-six cars. They plan to demolish the
existing oyster house which would be reconstructed for a ramp for
the ferry. They plan on a short term marina with a capacity of
twenty-one boats. They plan to rebuild the existing seawall and
dredge the cove for ferry access and propose that the dredge spoil
would be used to nourish the beach at the end of the street. There
is a proposed expansion of the existing dock for a ferry ramp. A
ferry district would have to be created and would not be for
public nor collection of fares. The costs would be supported by
assessment to the property owners and residents of the island.
It is anticipated that it will be an eight-car ferry. Mr. Wickham
asked if it would be similar to the Fishers Island Ferry. Mr.
John Raynor said he was not familiar with the Fishers Island Ferry
but he would assume so. It is proposed that the captain and mate
would live in New Suffolk and would be on call 24 hours a day.
Submarine cables would be utilized for telephone and electric lines.
There are several large reserved areas on the map and Mr. Raynor
went on to explain the location and so forth of these areas. The
central portion would be a recharge zone.
He mentioned that there were flag lots and that these were created
to make common driveways and to go with the contour of the land.
He presented a three-dimensional model of the island showing
placement of the houses.
Planning Board -12- Sept. _0er 19, 1977
Mr. Wickham said that the town is very insistent about the 100
foot setback from the bluff and along the east side there are
high bluffs virtually the entire length. He remarked that it
seemed as though they were prepared for it. Mr. John Raynor
said the houses were placed about 200 feet from the top of the
bluff. Mr. Wickham said the Planning Board will require a
building setback line of 100 feet shown on all the maps.
Mr. Raynor had shown a cross-section of the cross water lens and
Mr. Henry Raynor asked if they had figures to which the answer
was in the negative.
Mr. Wickham told them that in an area where we think there may
be problems we ask the Soil and Water Conservation District to
make some borings and advise us. There are some clay belts and
there was a brickyard there at one time. It would seem that the
water supply could be a problem in some of the areas. Mr. John
Raynor said they had referred to the Soil and Water Conservation
District and the soil map and took advantage of that information
in the selection of home sites.
Mr. Wickham said that in looking at the lot layout that pretty
well down on the west side there were some flag lots that could
be eliminated by relocating the highway somewhat. Mr. Wickham
said that flaglots are seldom used in the town but when we do
we look at them carefully and any that can be eliminated, the
Planning Board will require that they be eliminated. Mr. John
Raynor remarked that any changes in the contour are sensitive.
Mr. Raynor asked if they propose a twenty-one boat marina facility
in New Suffolk and seventy-one on the island, what happens when
they run into bad weather. Mr. John Raynor answered that the 71
is proposed as a home facility and the 21 as short term. He
didn't think there would be a need for more berths.
Mr. John Raynor proposes 2.6 miles of road. The principle
intention is for cars to go to the island and it would be simply
a convenience parking area in New Suffolk. Mr. Raynor felt that
a 36-car capacity should be minimum even if it's just help. He
thought the Planning Board would look for some type of covenant
that resident cars would be parked on the island. Mr. Wickham
said he felt that domestic and yard help could easily run to 100
people. It would be safe to bet that at least half would come
by cars and require parking. Mr. John Raynor said it was not
their intention to leave the cars in New Suffolk. The only
reason the parking is proposed in New Suffolk is strictly for
convenience. Mr. Wickham said he was talking about people that
pay as much for a home as these are going to cost are going to
have some help and that help is not going to take a car across on
a ferry. Therefore, the Planning Board must visualize parking
areas for this group. Mr. Raynor said he thought that question
would have to be worked out in the op~ation of the ferry itself;
he will have to discuss it with his clients. They are not talking
about charging fares. Dr. Samuels said that it is their intention
that the cars will go over to the island. He said that in his
experience in dealing with landed gentry in the Hamptons, there
Planning Board -13- September 19, 1977
personnel come in trucks and they will want to take their tools
and equipment over to the island. Their intention is that the
ferry service will be adequate and they know the problems in New
Suffolk. They intend to take the people and their cars over and
do not intent that problem to be a drawback to the project.
Mr. Wickham remarked that there are times when there could be an
emergency when the ice is too heavy and the ferry can't get in
and out. He said that there had been discussion about helicopters
and helicopter pads. He felt it would be a must. He felt that
sometimes immediate emergency exit would be necessary. Dr.
Samuels said they were reluctant to propose it at this point but
would be overjoyed to put one on the island.
Mrs. Jean Tiedke asked how much would be left in open space and
the answer was 176 acres would be in the reserved areas.
Mr. Driscoll asked if the Planning Board listens to plans if there
is no contract vendee and if there is an option vendee. He said
it was said by Mr. Mackay's attorney that there was no contract
and Mr. John Raynor said they were option vendees.
At this point Meyer Scheps, council for Mr. Mackay, made some
remarks. In order to straighten the record, he said what he had
said was that Mr. Mackay had granted to Dr. Samuels and Mr.
Ingoglia an option for a sum originally of $200,000 which he
understands will shortly be increased before the option is exercised.
The exercise of the option depends on a number of factors and
certain of them depend on what the Planning Board does with the
plan. He said obviously they are not going to make a final contract
if there is no hope of accomplishing what they set out to do.
They have put up $200,000 as against the total consideration.
The fact that they are option vendees gives them a standing which
no one else but Mr. Mackay has. There are no other people that
are connected with the present enterprise or who have any interest
in the matter other than these two people and Mr. Mackay, Mr.
Mackay as owner and Dr. Samuels and Mr. Ingoglia as option vendees.
Anyone who tells you that they are persons that they have an
interest in the island is talking through his hat because the fee
title of record is still in Mr. Mackay. There is no instrument
of record or there will be none within a day or two. He said that
the Planning Board will hear from certain people that they have
money that belongs to them that has not been returned to them and
that they have a contract. He said they had broken four adjourn-
ments of a contract. They were not able to make a contract and
declared in default. He went on - consequently, unless the board
considers option vendees who will shortly have the contract depending
on the action of the board, he sees no other person other than
John Mackay that has any interest in this and John Mackay, through
Mr. Scheps, is supporting the action of the option vendees.
Mr. Wickham said he understood that there were suits and counter-
suits and the answer was suit and countersuit which was not
disputed. Mr. Wickham asked if they would be set aside by Judge
Lipetz. Mr. Scheps went on at length to explain all the legal
matters. Mr. Wickham asked Mr. Scheps to keep the board posted
on the outcome of these matters.
Planning Board -14- Se~ ember 19, 1977
Mr. Driscoll again asked if the board hears option vendees or
contract vendees and Mr. Wickham answered that this is not a
hearing. It is to get all the information that the board needs.
He will discuss the entire matter with the town attorney Tuesday.
Mr. Driscoll stated that Mr. Scheps did not point out that they
paid for each option and the price was raised on the property.
He said they would submit information that will involve some of
the local representatives of the departments of the town. Mr.
Scheps said the fact is that Mr. Mackay on September 9, 1976
wrote to their then attorney that $12,000 had to be paid before
a certain time and in the event said payment is not made the
sum of $175,000 which has been received will remain the property
of Mr. Mackay and shall not be returned.
Joseph Lamberta, attorney for Dr. Samuels and Mr. Ingoglia said
the lis pendens mentioned previously had been disposed of and
that they are the option vendees and there is no other person
interested in this application. Mr. Wickham repeated that he
wants to talk to the town attorney.
This concluded the discussion of Robins Island and covers quite
fully all the remarks made.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
RESOLVED to approve the preliminary map of the subdivision
known as Kouros Acres located at New Suffolk Subject to the
recommendations of the Suffolk County Planning Commission
regarding the changing of lot lines and creating a curve with a
ten foot radius.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED that ±f Lloyd Terry proceeds with a two lot minor
subdivision on the Sound at the north of his property that there
be a 25 foot right-of-way to the said lots with a 20 foot right-
of-way across to the center of the lots and a 50 foot right-of-
way to the Sound with 25 feet of this right-of-way improved.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Cpyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED that at the request of the developer of Paradise-by-
the-Sound the Suffolk County Department of Planning be asked to
re-review the requirement of the 100 foot setback from the bluff
for this subdivision. The recommendation of the Southold Town
Planning Board is to keep the 100 foot setback which has been the
usual procedure with subdivisions on the sound.
Planning Board -15- Se~ember 19, 1977
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to approve the sketch map of the subdivision of
Shackman and Company, said map dated October ll, 1976 andrevised
August 3, 1977. Lots 3 and 4 are to remain exclusively business
district. Covenants and restrictions must be filed as to no
further subdivision of lots I and 2.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Wall, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
RESOLVED to approve the map of the minor subdivision of
Thomas O. and Regina S. Pyle known as Hay Harbor Hills subject to:
1. Recommendations of the Suffolk County Planning Commission.
2. The map being amended to accurately reflect the legal
notice that was posted.
3. Topography being shown on the map.
4. 100 foot setback line from the bluff being shown on the
map.
5. Right-of-way along the bluff being shown.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Peconic Knolls. Mr. Wickham said he had discussed the travelled
road in this subdivision with the town attorney and had been
advised that the travelled road should be shown on the map with
the legend that the right-of-way is to be extinguished upon
completion of the highways as per agreement dated June 3, 1975.
On motion made by Mr. Wall, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to request the Highway Superintendent to cut down
the grade on Henry's Lane to reduce the slope on the extension of
said road in the Peconic Knolls subdivision.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Babcock and Rimmler - Southold Gardens. A letter was sent to
Young and Young regarding the calculations on number of lots for
this subdivision and they have replied that they thought when
Planning Board -16- September 19, 1977
the calculation was .5 or over another lot was allowed. Mr.
Wickham asked that the following be transmitted to Young and Young.
This is not the understanding of the Planning Board. We have
always urged the developers and insisted they live within the
requirements. In fact, we generally recommend that they use one
less lot than allowed to provide some cushion in case of
miscalculation.
Horton Farm Estates - Richard Young. A letter had been received
from Young and Young stating that they thought the size and
depth of the recharge basin was sufficient. Mr. Tuthill, town
engineer, was asked to check out the calculations and the letter
of Young and Young.
A letter was read from the Southold-Peconic Civic Association
requesting some action by the Planning Board to eliminate Burger
Kings, MacDonald's and so forth from coming into the town and
spoiling the visual effect. Mr. Wickham said he had conferred
with the town attorney and the town attorney does not feel that
an architectural board of review is the answer nor is an
architectural board of review within the province of the Planning
Board. The Planning Board feels that since the amount of business
zoned property in the Town of Southold is rather limited that we
are not open to an invasion from fast food shops. The ordinance
is already so restrictive on signs that it is already an impossibility
to create something like that shown in the article presented and
the jurisdiction on signs rests with the building inspector.
There was a further question in the letter from the Southold-
Peconic Civic Association regarding the progress of the Master
Plan. Mr. Wickham said the town attorney has said and it has
been upheld in court that the master plan is, in fact, all those
studies which have been made to determine future development of
the town and those decisions based on those studies whether or
not they exist in readily accessible form.
Mr. Franklyn Bear reported that Mr. Stack and Mr. DeReeder are
suing Henry Smith and that the lots in question in Nunnakoma
Waters cannot be built upon. Mr. Wickham explained to the rest
of the board the statement he had made supporting the position
of Stack and deReeder.
Mr. Wall made a motion, seconded by Mr. Raynor and carried
to approve the tentative budget for 1978 as presented by the
secretary.
Plar~ming Board -17- Sept~,~ber 19~ 1977
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
P~ESOLVED to recommend to the Southold Town Board a bond
estimate in the amount of $90,000 for Blue Horizons, Section I
and $110,000 for Blue Horizons, Section II.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
***
Motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor and
carried to adjourn the meeting. Meeting adjourned at 12 midnight.
Respectfully submitted,
Muriel Brush~ Secretary
~-~ ~[.
~]ohn Wzckham, Chairman