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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-10/03/1977 ,D $ JOHN ~CKHAM, Chairman FRANK S. COYLE HENRY E. RAYNOR, Jr. FREDERICK E. GORDON JAMES WALL Southold, N.Y. 11971 MINUTES TELEPHONE 765-1313 A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held at 7:30 p.m., Monday, October 3, 1977, at the Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, New York. Present were: John Wickham, Chairman Henry E. Ray-nor, Jr., Vice-Chairman Frank S. Coyle Frederick E. Gordon Absent was: James Wall 7:30 p.m. Public Hearing on the preliminary map of Nina Stevens. Mr. Raynor read the Notice of Hearing and presented proof of publication in the Long Island Traveler-Watchman. Mr. Wickham: I have a letter dated September 15th from the Suffolk County Department of Planning. Dear Mr. Wickham: In accordance with your request the staff has examined the proposed subdivision layout for a 24.5+- acre tract reputedly owned by Nina Stevens and offer the following comments on the map for your use. When this proposed subdivision is reviewed by the Commission they will address two areas of concern: impact upon the shoreline and the loss of farmlands. In reviewing the impact upon the shoreline they will consider the setback from the top of the bluff (setback of 100 feet shown on the map appears to be satisfactory); access to the beach from shorefront lots and the footpath; restrictions on clearing and grading in the setback area; prohibition of installation of any sanitary disposal facilities within the setback area; and the control of stormwater runoff in the area of the shoreline. When Planning Board -2- October 3, 1977 the final map is referred to the Commission information pertaining to these items should be included to facilitate review. The Commission is concerned over the increasing loss of farmlands and has been recommending use of "clustering" as a means to preserve land suitable for farming. Consideration should be given to clustering the lots on the northerly third of the tract and placing in open space the southerly two-thirds of the tract and reserving the open space area for agricultural use. In regard to the layout as proposed the following two items should also be considered: 1. Land designated as "other lands of Nina Stevens" should be assigned a lot number (Lot 20) and incorporated into the map. A right-of-way along the southerly boundary of this parcel should be reserved at this time for the future creation of Soundview Avenue in accordance with the Town Master Plan. Should this right- of-way not be needed or a different alignment is proposed in the future it can be either abandoned or relocated. Coordination with the "Map of Minor Subdivision - Peter Kalamaris" should be accomplished at this time. 2. The proposed alignment of Road "A" in the vicinity of Lots 13 and 14 will result in traffic flow and safety problems. If the road segment that will be utilized for Soundview Avenue is extended easterly it will create a skewed intersection which statistically has a higher accident rate than a "T" or 90° intersection. Extending the road easterly from a point opposite Lot 14 will create a dogleg whose curve at Lot 13 is too sharp and will result in traffic problems also. Staff comments on a preliminary map do not constitute a review of the map by the Suffolk County Planning Commission. When the map has been finalized it should be referred to the Commission for review pursuant to Section 1333 of the Suffolk County Charter. /s/ Charles G. Lind, Chief Planner Mr. Wickham: I have a memo from the Planning Board engineer to the Superintendent of Highways. Recommendations 1. That the cuts and fills be balanced in the road. 4 That an additional catch basin be placed each side of Road "A" approximately l0 feet from catch basins now shown. These additional grates are needed to allow for the volume of water entering at this point. 3. That Lots i and 19 be restricted to entrance on Road "A" only. Planning Board -3- October 3, 1977 Comments It is noted that Lots ll and 12 do not have 150 feet of building line perpendicular to lot lines nor an excess of 50% above the 40,000 square foot minimum. There will probably be severe erosion at the park and recreation beach area and this parcel will be nonexistent in about 50 years. 3. There is no parking near the park and recreation area. Mr. Wickham: I have the application. I have a letter and this is what Mr. Tuthill was speaking about. The following letter is under date of April 26th from the secretary to the attorney. Dear Mr. Cron: The following action was taken by the Southold Town Planning Board at a regular meeting held April 18, 1977. RESOLVED to accept the design of the lots 7 through l0 on the Sound on map of property of Nina Stevens dated November 10, 1976 because of the fact that the lots are 50% oversized. It was further noted that the map will have to show 100 foot setbacks from the bluff. Covenants and restrictions will be required for each shorefront lot that no application will be made to further subdivide. There was a question about the ten foot right of way to the beach area. If no cars will be allowed there, it should be noted on the map that it is a footpath only. /s/ Muriel Brush, Secretary Mr. Wickham: Nothing from the Superintendent of Highways yet? Secretary: No. Mr. Wickham: At this time, I will ask for anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition to this subdivision of Nina Stevens. Hearing none, I will ask for those that wish to speak in favor. Richard J. Cron, Esq.: If it pleases the Board, I am Richard J. Cron and I am here in behalf of the applicant. As a point of observation, I believe we have indicated to the Board in the past that the reference made in the Planning Board letter of September 15th designating that large parcel of land, I would like to point out that we plan to submit a minor subdivision for that lot, so there is no intent to make it part of the major subdivision. I don't know if that constitutes any real problem at all. I would have to disagree with the County Planning with regard to clustering on this particular parcel. I do not think it is suitable for that because by the time you clustered there wouldn't be much land left for agriculture and would be left to the use of the lot owners in the subdivision. The other matters regarding the shore- line do not present any real problem. I think the board has already reviewed the intersection road that they referred to in Planning Board -4- October 3, 1977 number 2 of their letter. I would assume the Board would be able to control the point of entry by any future subdivision that might come before the Board in that area so I do not see where that raises any substantial problem. I do not think we have any problem with respect to the comments of the town engineer but I don't understand number 2 in that the beach area will be non- existent in the next 50 years. If there is beach erosion, there would be more and not less. I would respectfully ask this board, as we have complied with the regulations of the Town, that the Board grant preliminary approval of this map. Mr. Wickham: In explsnation of the town engineer's feeling about using the beach as park and playground, this would be his objection, that unless there is provision for a, permanent provision for using the beach, then in fact this could disappear in fifty years. If you are prepared to covenant that the beach from the foot of the bluff to high or low water mark would be maintained as park aud playground, then there is no problem. Mr. Cron: No problem there, that is what it is intended to be. Mr. Wickham: His point is well taken and if you establish the foot of the bluff now and say that is the limit of the park and playground, that would not be in fifty years. Mr. Cron: I would think erosion would increase the beach area. Mr. Wickham: It moves the whole thing back. We have studies and it shows very clearly. There is one other thing that comes to our attention. This Road A at the present time is directly opposite where the proposed minor subdivision is and this is a 50 foot road and we are assuming that the road in the minor subdivision might be less than 50 feet. Mr. Cron: This is something over which we have absolutely no control. We do not own the lands between the major and minor subdivision and the only access we have is the small access road which I think is another reason why it has to be a minor subdivision. There is no way we can compel the adjoining owners to convey us a road 50 feet in width. Mr. Wickham: We have a problem in that the next property to the west is also being subdivided and we have to provide for a 50 foot road across here, one way or another. Mr. Cron: I have no objection in respect to what we own, in reserving an area that would be 50 feet wide. Mr. Wickham: I was going to suggest you drop it down. We want to match it up and see how it matches up. Mr. Cron: I think if there was an extension of the road, this is where it would be. Planning Board -5- ~ October 3, 1977 Mr. Wickham: I the most sense. subdivision? think to continue it across would probably make Does anyone else wish to be heard on this Mr. Raynor: Have you any comments in regard to lots ll and 12 in the County Planning letter? There was a question of the measure- ment of the setback line. Maybe, it's in the engineer's report. Mr. Cron: Let me put it to you this way. On the north side of that road, the width of those lots has been approved by this board. Since the lines are a prolongation, I would think it would meet the regulations. We answered that in respect to 7, 8, 9 and 10. Mr. Wickham: But we said we would allow it in view of the fact that each one of them was 150% oversized. Mr. Cron: I think that was one of the reasons. I submit to the board that it would be illogical to change what has applied to the north side and come up with different requirements for the south side. We are talking about 9 and l0 especially. They are a prolongation of lots 9 and 10. You can't deal with it any other way. The lots south of the road meet the exact 40,000 square foot requirement. We are talking about two lots that are a prolongation of lots 9 and l0 and if you measure parallel with the road, I submit that the subdivision regulations permit and you would have 150 foot width requirements. I submit your regulations do not require it. Mr. Wickham: I think you will find that we are trying to do two things. I think you will find that the regulations say 150 feet at the setback line but it does not say how it shall be measured. There is no point in discussing this any further. Does the board have any other comments or questions? Mr. Raynor: Do you have any comment about the County's comment about parking near the beach facility? Mr. Cron: The only provision to the beach is through a footpath. Are you talking about parking on the beach area itself? I think people are going to have to walk to get to the beach. There is no spot to park an automobile. It's healthy to walk. We have made no provision for the cars to get access to the beach. There is no intention to make any such provision. If people want to get to the beach, they will have to walk. If it is 2,000 feet to walk, they will have to walk 2,000 feet. Mr. Wickham: In looking at the County's comments under paragraph two, they don't make any suggestions until we submit an official map. What we have done is ask for an opinion at this stage of the game. Frankly, I would like to see what they would suggest. Mr. Cron: I think it would be a little unfair to wait until the final map. Mr. Wickham: I agree. I am sure we can ask them for some sort of proposal. Planning Board -6- -- October 3, 1977 Mr. Cron: I have nothing more to add. Mr. Wickham: They show the things they don't like but I would like to get from them something they might find acceptable and I am sure we can. Mr. Cron: All I want is something acceptable to the board. Mr. Wickham: I will declare the hearing closed. Soundwood Farm. Richard Cron, Esq. appeared. Mr. Cron asked Mr. Wickham to explain the resolution of the board granting sketch plan approval and Mr. Wickham said the board didn't know how to handle it. Mr. Cron suggested that the board didn't want this piece of property developed at all. Mr. Wickham said he felt the north end should be developed. Mr. Cron said his client didn't know what to do with the south end if he just developed the north end. Mr. Raynor said the beach and park areas seem to include a considerable amount of bank. Mr. Wickham said the board insists on using useable ground and doesn't allow land subject to flooding as park and playground. There has to be a net amount of land equal to the requirements, namely 5%, and it has to be useable land under most conditions and a bank wouldn't qualify. Mr. Wickham said the board was concerned about the length of the road without any way of getting off it. Mr. Wickham said one thing the board has required repeatedly on shorefront subdivisions and the Town Board may well require it, is a road up to the top of the bluff with a 100 foot turnaround. This has been required in many subdivisions and in view of the fact of the length of the road and all these people. This is twice the distance of the previous subdivision and these people will, basically, come by car and should have access to the park and playground. Mr. Raynor asked if clustering had been explored. Mr. Cron said it would be difficult to cluster because of the width. Mr. Raynor asked if there had been any consideration given to selling off a section and developing the northerly part in a minor subdivision or something of that nature. Mr. Cron said he had explored everything the board had suggested but the ultimate decision has to rest with his client. Mr. Cron wanted to know what guarantees the board wanted and asked if they had specific recommendations that he can review with the engineer and his client. Mr. Wickham conceded that there was no other road to go out. Mr. Wickham said some provision must be made for parking. It should be provided near Soundview Avenue or easy walking distance. Mr. Wickham said it is unreasonable to ask people to walk almost a mile to a park and playground. Mr. Wickham said he thinks it can be expected that a few lots will be sold off near the waterfront but nothing will happen with the rest for a long time, maybe 15 or 20 years and in the meantime the road will deteriorate. The town attorney will not allow the Planning Board to require a performance bond for maintenance of roads. There will be a covenant required as to dedication of the roads to the Town of Southold that will be acceptable to the developer and the town attorney. Mr. Wickham foresees that this road will be in terrible shape because of the soil type and the Planning Board is Planning Board -7- October 3, 1977 trying to forestall it. Mr. Wickham said the Planning Board can insist that with every lot sold ownership of that percentage of the road will immediately move to the purchaser and this will be a condition. Mr. Raynor asked if the client proposed to dedicate the roads and Mr. Cron said he didn't know. He didn't think that he intended to keep the roads private. Mr. Cron said he has to go along with that the sketch plan was satisfactory unless the board tells him what to do in regard to the road. He felt it was unfair to make his client wait until some time in the future. He felt what has been done up to this point meets with the subdivision regulations. Mr. Raynor asked, where there is a subdivision with a long narrow transfiguration, would some type of consideration be given to using number 5 as a combination park and playground area to make up the difference with the shore area. This area could also be used for parking. Mr. Wickham said the board was allowed to approve with conditions and are trying to work out a condition acceptable to Mr. Cron and one which would meet or part way meet the problems the board foresees. Mr. Cron said he had no objection as long as he knew what the board wants. He said the letter of the 6th doesn't specify the conditions. Mr. Cron said Mr. Raynor's suggestion did not upset him. Mr. Coyle suggested weaving the road back and forth with some on the east and some on the west side of the subdivision. Cutchogue Joint Ventures. Richard Cron, Esq. was present. Maps have been presented locating the pond in the vicinity of this subdivision. Mr. Wickham would like to see the present owners on the map. Mr. Young was asked to stake between lots 5 and 6 and i which are the two southerly corners of lot 5. Mr. Young was to let the secretary know when the stakes are in. Mr. Cron requested that the board let him know about the road after they have looked at it. Mr. James Cross told the board that the spur road is mostly under water and lots 5 and 6 are under water a large part of the year. Where it says "not wetlands" is the only place that has water 12 months of the year. Mr. Wickham talked about moving the spur road 450 feet or something like that. Mr. Cross said there is a ridge and if it went far enough the road would end on the ridge instead of in the marsh. He said the water drains from a long way to the north. John Miesner minor development in Cutchogue. Mr. Miesner appeared. The southerly part will be developed as business property. Mr. Raynor mentioned the letter from Mr. Kaelin about the right of way. Mr. Miesner said the back portion was undesirable as residential because of Glover in the back. He was wondering about the possibility of a change of zone for that portion of the property. Mr. Wickham said they would run into trouble with the County because the County doesn't believe in increasing the business zones in the villages. He doubted if the Planning Board would recommend it. The Planning Board will look at it and get back to Mr. Miesner. The 25 foot right-of-way has to be redesigned to feed two lots. There is a question as to whether you can Planning Board -8- October 3, 1977 utilize the three front lots uuder the present zoning as a residential use because they are less than 40,000 square feet. Lloyd Terry. Mr. Terry appeared. He will dot in 12-1/2 feet on each side of the 50 foot right-of- way going to the Sound. He will bring in the maps when they have been completed. Stanley Sled~eski minor subdivision. Richard Lark, Esq. appeared. Mr. Lark left a copy of the map with the approval of the Suffolk County Health Department noted on it. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to approve the sketch map of the minor subdivision of Stanley Sled~eski located on Luther's Road in Mattituck. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle~ Gordon Ernest Wilsberg subdivision in Orient. Mr. Wilsberg appeared. (next to Brown's Hill Road) The board indicated they liked the concept of the map but want to look at it some more. Blue Dolphin site plan. Mr. Spinthourakis appeared. The Board wants the building inspector, Howard Terry, to look the plan. On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED to approve the sketch map of the property of Mary W. MacNish located at Mattituck, New York, said map dated May l, 1961 and amended August 30, 1977, subject to a dotted line being shown to show 150 feet. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to approve the sketch map of the property of Appolonia Kirchgessner located at Mattituck, New York, said map dated September 23, 1977, subject to determination of the ownership Plauning Board -9- 9ctober 3, 1977 of the existing 25 foot right-of-way. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon C. Edmonds Allen and Peter Kreh. These two people were present along with Mr. McNulty, the attorney. There was discussion of the water problem in this area and the possibility of a condition being placed on the property that lots i and 2 in one of the minor subdivisions and lots 3 and ~ in the other not being built upon until municipal water was available. There was lengthy discussion on this matter of how to subdivide this property with- out any apparent resolution of the matter. There was also discussion on the right-of-way of 30 feet to service the lots. On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED to grant site plan approval to Sundown, Main Road, Mattituck, said plan dated August 15, 1977 and amended September 22, 1977 subject to a six month review. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Gordon CountrV Club Estates. Gary Olsen, Esq. and Philip Babcock appeared. The Planning Board will inspect the site when Howard Young has staked the sand drain area. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was RESOLVED to grant sketch plan approval to the subdivion map of Southold Gardens at Southold, New York, owned by Richard Babcock and Fred F. Rimmler, said map dated September 17, 1976. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon George Toumanoff. Mr. Toumanoff was in to discuss his tentative plans for developing the former Anna Hansen property in Mattituck. He showed a sketch and his tentative plans include a major subdivision plus a change of zone to M-1 for membership association cottages and change of zone to B-1 on the island for a boatel type operation. Mr. Raynor objected to the multiple on the basis of density and incompatibility with the land uses involved. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was Planning Board 10 .... October 3, 1977 RESOLVED to grant approval to the map of the minor subdivision of Peter Kalamaris located at Oregon, near Cutchogue, New York, said map dated July 7, 1977 and amended August 29, 1977, subject to: 1. Recommendations of the Suffolk County Planning Commission. 2. A 50 foot right-of-way be shown on the southerly portion of the premises with the notation "reserved for possible future dedication to the Town of Southold". Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED to grant approval to the map of the minor subdivision of Shirley Saland located Nassau Point, said map dated May 3, 1977 and amended September 8, 1977 subject to the recommendations of the Suffolk County Planning Commission. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to accept report #232 of Edward J. Bage, P. E. dated September 30,~ 1977 and recommend to the Southold Town Board the release of the bond of the subdivision known as "Highwood at Bayview". Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon Motion was made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Coyle and carried to approve the minutes of the meeting of September 19, 1977. On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Wickham, it was RESOLVED that inspection has been made of the premises of Colgate Design Corporation at Greenport. The premises conform with the site plan approved by the Planning Board. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon There will be a two year review of the premises. C. Edmonds Allen and Peter Ereh. The Planning Board would recommend to the Suffolk County Planning Commission three lots in each subdivision assuming that the right of way can be worked out with Planning Board -ll- October 3, 1977 the town attorney. John Polywoda site plan. The Planning Board wants a letter from the building inspector, Howard Terry, regarding the parking area. Motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon and carried to adjourn the meeting. Meeting adjourned at ll:50 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Muriel Brush, Secretary ~ohn Wzckham, Chairman