Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-02/07/1977 P T( JOHN~CKHAM, Chairman FRANK S. COYLE HENRY E. RAYNOR, Jr. FREDERICK E. GORDON JAMES WALL Southold, N.Y. 11971 MINUTES February 7, 1977 TELEPHONE 765-1313 A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held at 7:30 p.m., Monday, February 7, 1977 at the Town Clerk's Office, Main Road, Southold, New York. Present were: John Wickham, Chairman Henry E. Raynor, Jr., Vice-Chairman Frank S. Coyle Frederick E. Gordon James Wall 7:30 p.m. Public Hearing on the minor subdivision of Gibbons. Gary 01sen, Esq., appeared. Mr. Raynor read the Notice of Hearing. Mr. Raynor: I have no proof of publication but copies were mailed to the Long Island Traveler-Watchman, the Suffolk Times and others. Mr. Wickham: I am distressed because it doesn't show the same property owners as the description. Stanley Simcik hasn't owned this property for three years. This was a piece of property subdivided without the knowledge of the Planning Board and I think it is a subterfuge. The man is Catalano and, as far as I am concerned, we have handled our last property subdivision with him. The map is no good. I am adjourning this hearing right now. I have told the engineer so many times. They have come before us and the description does not fit the map. I am adjourning the hearing until such time as the map is corrected and we get the whole story of the chain of title. I want to know where Catalano came in. I think we have been had again. It doesn't alter the fact that the map is incorrect. Howard (Young), can't you do better than that? Here is the description. It doesn't match with the adjacent property owners or whoever owns it. This 'now or formerly' stuff is all over. We want to know who is the owner of record at the time the description is made. We might as well go through with it, but I am teed off about this. We have had this with Catalano before. Let's go through with the hearing but, as far as I am concerned, we entertain these in good faith and there is a shyster in it all the time. I want to know it. If there is something funny about Planning Board - -2- Feb~ry 7, 1977 the chain of title, we want to know it. Don't bring something to us and try to pull the wool over my eyes. Mr. Coyle asked the secretary why there wasn't any proof of publication and the secretary explained that it had indeed been published but both papers had neglected to send the affidavits. The papers are to be written to to again request that affidavits are received before the hearings. Mr. Wickham went over the file and noted a resolution dated September 23rd approving the sketch map of property owned by Gibbons. The declaration to not further subdivide was read over. It was noted that Mr. Gibbons address was a shopping plaza and Mr. Olsen was asked about this. Mr. 01sen: That is his business address. address, I can get it. If you want a home Mr. Wickham: With a business address, we are immediately concerned as to whether this man is, in fact, the owner. Mr. Olsen: He is. Mr. Wickham: This hearing is being held continued, with the definite understanding that there will have to be some changes made and the proof of notice will have to be submitted or obtained. At this time, I will call for anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition to the minor subdivision of Edward Gibbons on Alvah's Lane in Cutchogue. William Wickham, Esq.: I own the property to the west. It is the William H. Wickham Estate. I think that is the way the assessors have carried it. I was looking for elevations and I don't see any. The reason I would like to see elevations or a contour map is the ~act that almost at the split here, I would say this land is low. It is roughly like the edge of a saucer around here that all goes towards my farm. Since it has been under agriculture mostly for potatoes, we haven't had too much drainage, but when you get to a subdivision, that situation may very well change. It slopes down from about the high tension wire to somewhere in here and slopes up again and I notice that the turnaround here is over the halfway point. I don't know whether that is intended to be a public or private right of way but there will be a turnaround. I also want to point out that the gentleman that owns this, whether it is Klasfeld or someone else, has left a 50 foot strip and his property goes from that to Middle Road and, of course, if that is developed, there could very well be a road here and a turn there and I believe that this section here is high enough to have water flow in that direction. I think it is highly essential in this case to have a competent contour map just to see where the drainage goes. If my property, which is desirable for a subdivision, particularly after this winter is developed, I do know that I would have to put a sump in here but I want it for me, not for my neighbor. I wish you would look into that quite carefully as long as this is going to be adjourned. Planning Board - -3- Feb~-~ry 7, 1977 Mr. Wickham: Where does your open field come? William Wickham: About here. It is along this corner. This is all wooded except a corner down here and the lower spot is in here. That's 350 feet. I would say the low spot is probably here and the field is in here. Even then, it slopes do~n for quite a distance in all directions. Mr. Raynor: I know you are aware of this board's practice. Before any final hearing, it would have spot elevations. William Wickham: I think a contour would be quite necessary. Mr. Wickham: We would not only require contours be on the map but on the adjacent property. I am glad you brought this up because too often the engineers have said this is not necessary. William Wickham: further west. This is a big half-bowl. The turnaround is Mr. Wickham: At this time, I will call for anyone in favor of it. Gary Olsen, Esq.: This property is 13-1/2 acres, approximately. Out of the 13 acres, we wish to create four parcels, each having about 3-1/2 acres each. They more than exceed the minimum town requirements. The planning board had given approval to this sketch plan back on September 23rd, 1976. Since it meets all the minimum town requirements, I respectfully submit that it should be approved. Mr. Wickham: I know that you know that we want to keep down the density. The thing that upsets me is this farm really was divided some time in the past three years without the knowledge of the Planning Board and this particular person who was a prior owner has done this repeatedly. We can't blackball him but neither do do we feel happy about being had again. We want to know the whole story. Mr. Olsen: This concept would be something that would be good for the town. Mr. Wickham: We don't want to be surprised. We want to know the whole story. I am sure you know. At this time, I will adjourn the hearing until this map is complete. We want the present adjoining owners including those across Alvah's Lane. We will want contours for a short distance outside. On minors, we don't usually but in this particular case, we are going to. Mr. Olsen: I don't think the character of the land is going to be changed. We will give you the covenant not to come back and further divide. We will be happy to impose that. Mr. Wickham: Alright. We want five-foot contours and, if there is going to be a problem on the back half, we want 2-1/2 foot. Planning Board -4- Febr~ry 7, 1977 Babcock & Rimmler. Gary Olsen, Esq., appeared. The Town Board has approved this property to be developed in the cluster concept. Mr. 01sen said they have tried to keep as much open area as possible. Heritage Harbor. Michael Hills, Esq., and Mr. Wandoloski appeared. Mr. Raynor read the Notice of Hearing. There was no proof of publication in the file. This has been published but neither paper sent the proof in time. Copies were mailed to the papers and other appropriate people. Mr. Wickham: I have here a letter from the Suffolk County Dept. of Planning under date of January 21, 1977. Dear Mr. Wickham: In accordance with your request, the staff has examined the proposed subdivision layout for a 14.532 acre tract reputedly owned by Riverside Homes, Inc. and offer the following comments on the map for yo~ use. 1. The map is considered to be satisfactory from the County's point of view provided that no storm water runoff created by the development of the lots will reach the County road. 2. According to our records the official road number for Middle Road is 27 not 27A. This should be checked and corrected. 3. There are three aspects of the map that can have an adverse impact upon the to~n.~ These are: a. Zoning District Line through Lot 10. This line should be relocated so that all of lot l0 is within the A Residence District. Zoning district lines that follow existing or proposed property lines eliminate the possibility of conflict arising from improper land use and applications for variances due to the property being in two districts. b. Southeast corner of Westphalia Road and Cox Neck Lane. A short radius curve, preferably not greater than 20 feet, should be provided at this location to facilitate turning movements and prevent corner cutting by vehicles. c. Proposed Road (Existing R.O.W.) Corner radii should be provided for the same reason given above and in anticipation of this right of way becoming a road in the future. The subdivider should be required to submit a proposed profile for this Planning Board - -5- Febr'~ry 7, 1977 road for approval to insure that the adjoining lots will not be adversely affected by the proposed grades and excavation operation when the road is constructed. Staff comments on a preliminary map do not constitute a review of the map by the Suffolk County Planning Commission. When the map has been finalized, it should be referred to the Commission for review pursuaut to Section 1333 of the Suffolk County Charter. /s/ Charles G. Lind, Chief Planner Mr. Wickham also referred to a letter to Mr. Hills under date of November 1st informing him of the recommendations of the Town Engineer, Mr. Tuthill; a January 10th letter to the Suffolk County Dept. of Planning asking for their review; a letter from the secretary to the Town Engineer and the Superintendent of Highways; a letter from the Planning Board engineer. Mr. Wickham: Since this is preliminary, we will proceed. I will first ask for anyone in opposition to this subdivision called "Heritage Harbor". Hearing none, I will call for anyone that wishes to be heard in favor of it. Mr. Hills: Any request that has been made by the Board as to the leaching basins and catch pools has been met and we would ask that it be given preliminary approval. Mr. Raynor: I take it that you have no objections to auy of the reco~mmendations of the town. Mr. Hills: They are minor in nature and if it is the board's wish that the requirements be changed. Mr. Wickham: Any problem about the grades on this proposed right of way? Mr. Young: I don't think it is ever going to be developed. Certainly, it isn't going to be by Riverside Homes. Mr. Wickham: It is relatively flat. Mr. Raynor: It has to conform to the building inspector concerning the right of way. Mr. Young: You are not serving any lots. Mr. Wickham: It is needed for access to the park and recreation area. It wouldn't be any great chore to submit a proposed grading plan. I would rather go along than to over-rule them because I am sure they will come back with it. Mr. Young: What about the cutback? Mr. Wickham: My own opinion is I don't feel strongly about them but I agree with the lot that has B District. Planning Board - -6- Febr~ry 7, 1977 Mr. Raynor: There is a provision in our zoning ordinance that is applicable, that when a zoning district runs through a particular piece, the higher zoning takes over. It is provided for in the ordinance. It will fall under the high use district. Mr. Wickham: We don't want the district line to run through the lots. Mr. Young: Isn't it a permitted use? Mr. Raynor: You will have to check that because of the changes made in the ordinance a couple of months ago. We just had a change in the ordinance and it changed the type of zoneing from cumulative to non-cumulative and I think it probably took in the "B". In a "B" you can put in 20 or 30,000 square feet. I would have to check the ordinance. Designate on the map. Mr. Young: We did. Mr. Wickham: We would say, designate it to exclude all of lot l0 from the "B" zone° Mr. Raynor: You could do it by deed restrictions. Mr. Young: They are asking for a change of zone. Mr. Raynor: You could do it under deed restrictions. That is the easiest way. If you would like us to review it with the Town Attorney, we will. Mr. Hills: We will do it by deed restriction. Mr. Wickham: When the final map comes through, we want it stated on the map as well. This lot restricted to residential use only. Anything else? I will declare the hearing closed. There was a question about the right of way being offered to the Town for dedication. It was decided the Town won't accept it for a long while anyway. Mr. Raynor suggested that would have to be given from the Superintendent of Highways and the Town Highway Committee. Estate of Piccione. Hans Rein and William Finn appeared. There had been a question as to the position of the right of way. Second Street for access was mentioned. Third Street is the one with the water problem. Mr. Raynor said these are substandard streets and it is a poor situation. His suggestion was limiting the right of way to twenty feet. Mr. Wickham suggested that Mr. Finn buy a triangle of the property. There is plenty of land and the Planning Board would look favorably on this solution. It was suggested that an agreement be reached between Mr. Rein and Mr. Finn and the outcome be reported back to the Planning Board as this is basically an approved map. Planning Board -7- Febrr~.ry 7, 1977 Horton's Farms. Richard Young appeared. The Board reviewed the map with the relocated recharge basin. Mr. Tuthill said he, Supt. of Highways Dean and Mr. Young went down and looked at it. Mr. Tuthill said the problem is on the other side of the street and the town can connect into it. There was a question as to whether there was sufficient area for drainage and Mr. Young said he could regrade to handle the water from the subdivision. There was a question as to how he is ever going to pipe into it from an elevation of five feet. Soundwood Farms. Robert S. Rubin appeared. The property was sold to Dr. Motet with the idea that it was developable as long as the regulations were followed. Mr. Wickham said that Southampton has said that you can't have that many lots in that configuration without an outlet at the other end and there is co~t precedent for this. Mr. Rubin said he hoped it was developable in some fashion. Mr. Raynor said he would like to study it a bit further. Mr. Wickham said he is trying to discourage him. He said that the County Planning has served notice on the Planning Board that they are saying no to this sort of thing. Mr. Rubin asked if he could have two lots on the Sound, and wait on the rest for awhile and Mr. Wickham agreed. He will have to get a right of access from the building inspector. The Board could consider this matter as a minor subdivision. Mr. Rubin asked if it could be wedded in the future to some other subdivision. Mr. Wickham said we would have to over-ride the County's approval and we wouldn't over-ride it and he would be stuck. The Planning Board will support the County. Mr. Raynor said we could not deny a person the right to develop his property. The map is defective in that it doesn't comply with the regulations and requirements of the Town. The Supt. of Highways has had problems with this type of thing and it will be very costly because he is going to look'at this property and want the runoff and berm taken care of. The subdivision regulations say you have to take care of all the rain water that falls on an area of 200 to 300 feet on each side. Mr. Raynor said that with 300 feet with a 2 foot drop, his guess is Mr. Rubin is going to run into a whole lot of piping and problems. He suggested that Mr. Rubin call the building inspector to see what would be required and check with the Board of Appeals on right of access to the property. It was suggested that Mr. Rubin come in with a minor and covenant that the rest of the property would come in as a major in the future. This should go through rather quickly. Hill Crest Estates. Harold Wilsberg appeared. Mr. Raynor asked Mr. Wilsberg if they had considered that forty lots will be service by 60 feet of beach. If the subdivision was brought in in sections, one section could be set up under the cluster and they could come up with an extra hundred feet of beach. Planning Board - -8- Febr~,ry 7, 1977 Blue Horizons. Peter Fauser appeared. Mr. Fauser asked who to apply for for a wetlands permit to remove the bog. He requested a final hearing on the map. Lot numbers were requested on the drainage plan. Walter Gatz cluster. Mr. Gatz appeared. Five percent is needed for park and playground. Cut in the bluff line. There was discussion on reducing the frontage to 100 feet and back up two lots and utilize one as park and playground for the people within the area. It was decided there wasn't enough Sound frontage to make this feasible. The Planning Board is going to look at it. Gunther Morchel site plan. Lawrence Liso appeared. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyte, it was RESOLVED to approve the site plan of Gunther Morchel dated January 18, 1977 and revised January 25, 1977. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon and Wall. The Supervisor arrived at the meeting at 10:15 p.m. David M. Brawner minor subdivision. Mr. Brawner appeared. Mr. Raynor asked Mr. Brawner if he would covenant with the Planning Board that any further development would be in the form of a major subdivision. Mr. Brawner answered in the affirmative. He was instructed to place on the map that the road would be reserved for possible future dedication to the Town of Southold. Booth cluster subdivision. Mr. Booth appeared. The cluster concept for subdivision of this property has been approved by the Town Board. Mr. Wickham told Mr. Booth that he cannot use the wetlands as a base for clustering. Mr. Booth said the bluff isn't considered wetlands. He said there is a small pond on the property. There is one area that is wet sometimes and dry sometimes. The secretary was instructed to write the Conservation Advisory Council for their determination as to whether it would be considered wetlands or not. Mr. Raynor told Mr. Booth that 5% of the property would have to be set aside as park and playground and labelled such. He was told he better Planning Board - -9- Febr~ry 7~, 1977 get in touch with the Highway Department about this type of roadway. Mr. Tuthill talked about a connection to Bittner. On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was R]ESOLVED to take the following action regarding the conditions imposed by the Suffolk County Planning Commission regarding the subdivision known as "Greenbriar Acres" located on Main Road and Elijah's Lane, Mattituck, New York: 1. Lot #1 is a single lot and there are established single residences in this immediate area o£ Route 25. This will not change the character of the road. 2. Dry wells will be required as requested by the County. 3. The two lots of this original tract have had dwellings on them for at least 60 years and it has been the policy of the Planning Board not to require these to be included in a subdivision. Each of the lots more than meets the area require- ments and are separately owned by two individuals. Woodfield Court was particularly lined out to match with the corresponding road in Tut's Acres and if, in fact, it does not we will require that it be made to match. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Wall , Coyle, Gordon. Mr. Raynor abstained from voting. Nina Stevens. Mr. Richard Cron appeared. This has been redesigned for the lots to be 150 foot wide on the Sound. It will come in as a major and a minor. The lots on the Sound and #11 and #12 have 150 foot fronts but the width should be 150 feet. He was told to square it off. The turnaround should come out to the full extent. Extend the bubble to the property line to the west. Babcock & Rimmler. Subdivider is to be told to place setback lines on lots 1, 7, and 8. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to grant sketch plan approval to the map of Horton Farm Estates dated November 18, 1976, as presented by Richard Young, et al. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon and Wall. Planning Board _ -10- February 7, 1977 On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was RESOLVED to hold a public hearing on the final map of subdivision known as "Blue Horizons", located at Peconic, New York, said hearing to be held on March 21, 1977. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon and Wall. On motion made by Mr. Wall, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED to recommend to the Town Board Denial of the petition of John J. Hurter requesting a change of zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B-l" General Business District on certain property at Southold, New York, based on the fact that it would not conform with the established depth of business-zoned property in the Town of Southold. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Gordon, Wall Nay: Coyle On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was RESOLVED to approve the preliminary map of the subdivision known as "Paradise by the Sound" as amended November 16, 1976 subject to recommendations of the Suffolk County Department of Planning and the Town Engineer, Lawrence M. Tuthill. The Planning Board recommends a waiver of the requirements for a block intersection on the westerly side of "Road A" because the parcel is landlocked in this area. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon and Wall. 0n motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to approve the minor subdivision of property of Phyllis E. Hale at Orient, map dated December 8, 1975, amended December l, 1976, and further amended January lC, 1977 to show map as minor subdivision and not sketch, subject to: 1. Recommendations of the Suffolk County Planning Commission. 2. Enforcement of the building inspector for right of access. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon aud Wall. Planning Board - -11- Febr--ry 7, 1977 It was suggested that the developers assume responsibility for the maintenance of the road leading to their property because it is apparent that Claussen Construction is no longer there and, further, that the developers form a property owners' association and attempt to organize a property owners' association of the Claussen development to take over final maintenance of the road. On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to approve the minor subdivision of property of Barbara P. Hughes at Orient, map dated December 3, 1975, amended December l, 1976, and further amended January 10, 1977 to show map as minor subdivision and not sketch, subject to: 1. Recommendations of the Suffolk County Planning Commission. 2. Enforcement of the building inspector for right of aocess. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon and Wall. The recommendations for the Hale subdivision as to the access from the Main Road apply here, also. On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was RESOLVED to recommend to the Town Board release of the bond for improvements in the subdivision known as "Perry's Bight", based on the approval of the Town Engineer, Edward Bage, and Superintendent of Highways Raymond C. Dean. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon and Wall. Mr. Coyle made a motion, seconded by Mr. Gordon and carried to approve the minutes of the meeting of January 24, 1977. Mr. Coyle made a motion, seconded by Mr. Gordon and carried to adjourn the meeting. Meeting was adjourned at 12:05 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Muriel Brus~ Secretary