HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/20/1967$outhold Town Planmng Board
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N.Y. 11971
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry Moisa
Alfred Grebe
WHliam Unkelbach
Frank Coy~e
M I'N U T E $
SOUTHOLDT~WNPLANN/~G BOARD
June 20, 1967
A regular-meeting of the Southold TownPlanning Board
was herd at 7:30 P-.M., Tuesday, June 20, 1967, at-the Town
Office, Main Road, Southold, New York.
There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry
Moisa, William Unkelbach, Frank'Coyle.
Absent: Mr. Alfred Grebe
Also present: M~ssrs: Otto Van Tuyl, Consultant, Lawrence
Tuthill, P.E., Howard Terry, Building Inspector.
Mr. Steve Doroski
discuss possible change ofzone to "B"
petty on t~e'Nor~h Road. The map on
the County-H~ghway were viewed.
used for.~ading potatoes will have
street, otherwise, the front
encroach on t/be highway. The
sent conditions was discussed.
BOaZd to
pro-
:ion of
-.the barn
the
tru:ck' being loaded will
of' oPera~ing un,er pre-
like to have all hSs opelra~ion on thenorth aide: of theroad in
view. of'the .fact'most~of the fmrm is located on the north~side
of the ~oad. He feltthe wholemaperation mustbe:held~z~
together.
Southold Town Planning Board -2- June 20, 1967
The Chairman advisedthat he did not see any particular
problem with his request, however~ he, advised that the Planning
Board has notbeen giving changes of zone on the County highway,
since they wanted to maintainthis as a hi--~$peed , limited
access road. The~Chairman advised that the Planning Board would
not'be willing to go along with the whole width, but would be
willing to go along with the width he presently has. The
Planning Board would be willing to go along with a width of
400'feet and a depth of $00 feet on the north side of the New
Middle Road, and the small strip, 400 feet in width onL the south
side of the New Middl~-Road.
The Chairman advised Mr. Doroski this request wouldhave to
go the the Town Board for-their final approval and he should
make his application as perthe discussion.
Since the last time we were here a
new law went in here. Unless you have a legend on the ma~hich
states to the effect that the proposed area is not' an offer for
dedication they will automatically offer for dedication .
am thinking of our last me~ing I wanfto .make sure my understanding
is correct on your statement that it was good planning to make
this park available. Did you mean to make this~ available to.
allthe people on the map. If that was the intention of your
statement 'that' is precisely what we contemplated. I would like
to have-the amthority to ask Mr. Van Tuyl to put' on this map to
the effect that the park and playgound is not an offer to dedicate
to the Town. It will be enjoyed by the people on' the ~m~map, not
~E ~,~w~own. May I ask you what your intention ~was?
JOHN WICKHAM:'~es, We.have had people come in.here and
say yes~ we will show it on the map and then. five, or-ten years
later the might sell it. If it is designated on the map~then
it can't be sold. You can sell property from a filed ~ap by
description, You can't-sellit if it~is on the filed map that it
is for~parkand playgDund.
SAMUEL GRIMES,-ESR: There was no official offe~ of dedication
on the filing of the map on roads and playground, etc. Now the
thin~ng i~ turned the other way. The filing of a map effects
an ozzer oz dedication that you can assume at any time. We want
Southold Town PlanningBoard
-3- June 20, 1967
you to say this park and playground will be for the enjoyment
of everybody on this map, but this ~oes not constitute an offer
for dedication to the Town of Southold. It will never become a
Town park.
THE CHAIRMAN: Don't sho~circuit your own client.
be at some time he would want to dedicate it.
It may
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ.: This may well be. We request that
you approve this legend to be put on this map. It will be
worded - filing of this map shall not consitutu~ an offfer of
dedication to the Tc~n of Southold of the park and playground
shown hereon.
HOWARD TERRY: Filing of the map automatically offers dedication
of the roads.
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ.: That means the Town of Southold will
automatically take over the roads?
HOWARD TERRY: No, you will still have to go through the paper
work.
THE CHAIRMAN: I am glad you brouhgt this up. This is going
to be a problem from now on. Whatever the wording is on the first
few maps will more or less depend on the attorney involved.
Sooner or later we will adopt something more uniform to protect
everyone's interest. I believe we should clear this with the
Town Council. I would see no r~son why we can't accept this
amendment to the map. This is within our power. We will present
it to the Town Council for his okay. If he okays it there will
be no problems.
MR. UNKF~LBACH: The title remains vested in the corporation -
will you convey anything in your deeds?
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQo: Every lot owner has an irrevocable right
to the playground.
MR. UNKELBACH: Who will maintain it?
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ.: We want the property owners to have
an association to take care of it. There will he sufficient
motoviation of the property owners to t~ke care of it.
Southold Town Boar~ of Appeals --4--
June 20, 1967
MR. UNKELBACH: The ownership can changehands and the
new ownermay..not take the responsibility.
MR~ VAN'TU~L: Don't you want' to t~ke this up with the Town
Attorney before putting it on the map?
JOPE~WICKS~a~: We can accept-the legand. We Will check on
tb~wording.
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ.: I should have the bond filed in a
few-days, t have the bond, it is just a matter of getting all
the'signatures, on it. Most you have a formal resoultion of the
approval of'the bond?
T~E CHAIRMAN: The sufficiencyhas been approved, ~The Town
Board sends~us a letter of acceptance thatit has been approved.
There is no problem, there is just the question of filing the
bond and the~Town Clerk-sends us a letter that~he has the bond.
The chairman is authorized to sign the map whenthis is done.
SAMUEL GRIMES,ESQ.: The Town clerk will then submit it to
the Town Board?
THE C'-HAIRMAN: -Yes. May Inmke one Other statement inline with
'the discussion about the continuing ownership of the park and
playground area. In some subdivision there has been the wish on
the partof the corporation involved to dedicate the highway
anna small strip of beach-to the Town. They didn't arrive at
this pointuntil after they-sold some lots and then ittbecame
next to impossible to ~etract from the interest-theyhad conveyed
out. In light of this~ it might be a good idea to say we are
giving a right to the park and playground and to the beach
subject to dedication to the Town under some conditions. If you
gives these peopIe a deed, then it is out of your hands.
SAMUEL GRI~IES: I have done this ~w in some other area. I
hame reserved title to the bed or'the street Withe%he provision
I would conveyit to the association when the association was
organized and ready to take ownership, then the~Eorporation
can do what it wants.
THE C~: In this particular case they'had only sold
two or three lots. It was to their advantage to ded/cate to the
Town. The Town insisted on a narrow strip of land and the
people did not'relinquish.
SAMULE GRIMES, ESQ.: I don't-think such a request would be
ma~e.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -5- June 20,. 1967
THE CHAIRMAN: We haveto assumeevery developer that comes
in here 'will have to-have Town roads. If you tie 'this thing up
without any means of getting it back into your hands the Town won't
accept~dedication of the roads. The Town might'say that this
park an~ playground should be dedicated to ~he Town. This goes
back to an old belief in the Town of'Southold, that every highw~,
every development with waterfrOnt should have oneraod going to
the water. We have gothundreds ~lx~w~x~~ of high-
ways that tsrminate at water. The~Town Board is backing off
this P°licy a little bit. They.will ~most certainly say-.to you
we won't assume the cost of these highways unl.ess you take the
park and playground area or some of it.
SAMUEL GRIMES% ESQ.: That is an errouneous re~uirementa I
think.
THE CHAIRMAN: It would be in 'the Town of Huntington were they
have no roadsat-tidewater. .You can get to the beach in 100 places
between.hereandCutchogue.
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ.: What is taken in the size of the-t>aach?
THE CHAIRMAN: One hundred feet.
SAMUEL~ GR//~ES, ~,: How is-that arrived at?
THE'CHAIRMAN: On a town Road, 25 feet each side of the
highway.
SAMUEL GRIMES~ ESQ.': Thereis 34 foot'pavement and50 foot
road bed so that give about 18 feet that-would be 8 feet on each
side of the road.
THE'CH~'IRMAN: No, wait-a minute youhave lost~me. You have
100 feet at highwater mark~and i00 feet back. The thing we
have advised,-put'in this;~hen you are talking about'conveying
to property owners s~bject to possible dedication to the Town,
in case a majority of the property owners want it~ Then you will
not be held up by'one person~
SAMUEL GRIMES, ES~.: This will remain private unitl a
majority of land owners w~ t0 ~edica~e.
THE CHAIRMAN: This is possible.
Southold Town Board of Appeals -6~ June 90,
1967.
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ.: How does dediCation ornot dedicating
effect-my getting off'the bond?
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't thinkithas any bearing on it.
Let's take a dry.run on this. You have got a subdivision here.
You gotthe bond released. You have sold four waterfront lots.
Things are going along pretty smoothly. You have ~ne-quarter
mile.of_highway, it costs money to maintain it. $500,.00maybe
about'S700.00 a year. If you have snow removal, maybe $I000.00
So far you have sold four lots. Th~ ~r~ that they pay is
very small. The developer is carrying most ofthe~x~Yburden.
THe developer may think I ampaying taxes on this property and
plowing the snow. The town should plow the snow. So he says
what stands in the way of my.~ d~dicating to the Town. We have
the houses and the assessed valuation. The only thing ~that
stands in the Way is the ~equirement for park-and playground,
The Town Board calls it a turnaround at water. That'is the only
thing that-stops the developer from'getting out from .u-der maintaining
the ~ highways. Just assuming he didn't see any possih~i ty
of getting rid or'the other lots. Then, if you have 'these few
words in there you could dedicate.
SAMUEL GRIMES,' ESQ~: I had no idea that-the Townhad such
a policy. This has been an education for me. In this case in order
for you to accept dedication'for this you woul~eqmire what?
THE CHAIRMAN: Fifty feet here and 100 feet here and~100 feet
back. We don't want you to short circuit your~ciient.
SAMULE GRIMES,. ESQ.: I must leave myself in the position to
do this. I didn't' realize this.
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know how stroh-~y the'Town Board is
sticking to this. They have said lately they don't want to
maintain them, but where theywant them, they want the~,
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ.: Does this policy apply on the Sound
as well as on the Bay?
THE: CHAIRMAN: Any waterfront property it applies to.
SAMUEL GRIMES, ESQ,: Is it feasible to ~o' anything with this
now?
THElCHAIRMAN: They won't accept dedication until you have
the required assessed valuation in there, and they won't setup
any'preliminary ~tandards. Just make sure that when you sell the
first few lots you make this clear.
Southold Town Planning Board
~une 20~ 1967
SAMUEL GRIMES~ ESQ.: I understand in order to keep faith with
prospective purchaster, if this is not redemmed With the property
this park and playground could be made a public_park.
THE CHAIRMAN: It has been ourexperience, without.exception,
after a period of years there isn't a person in these developments
who don't whant to have public roads.
-SAMUEL GRIMES~ ESQ.: My'contemplation at first ~as to
dedicate the roads. If this is going to be tied up with the
deidcation of the beach, I don't know what the decision will be.
They want you to maintain the roads and they want to reserve the
park for their own use and they will maintain it.
· HE CHAIRMAN: The Town hasn't-been in the position to. acce~t
on that basis. The way it-has been solved is to reserve an area
for possible dedieation to the Town.
On motion by Mr. Wickham, seconded by M~ Moisa, it~was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board accept'-~th~
legend as proposed by Mr. Samuel Grimes, Esq., to be' placed on
the map of "Birch Hills at'-Cutchogue".
No~e of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Hckham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Unkelbach,.
Mr. Coyle.
On' motion by Mr. M~sa, seoonded by'Mr. Unkelbach, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold TownPlar~ing Board set 7:30
P.M..,~Tuesday~ Julyl8, 1-9617,. at the Town Office~ Main Road,
Southold~' New York, as the time and plaCeof hearingupon
question or'approval of the' following plat:
Plat~of property owned by Henry J. 'and Stella M.-Smith~
entitled Peconic Homes, Section II, consisting of a parcel of
land of approximately 10 acres, situated at'Peconic, inthe Town
of Southold, Suffolk'County, New York, and bounded ~d described
as followS:
Southold Town Planning Board_~ -8-
June 20', 1967
BEGINNING at a point on 'the westerly line-of a proposed
highway'-to be known as "Henry' s Lane", '1505.24 fe~t northerly
along said westerly line from Middle Road, said point of beginning
being the northeasterly corner of lot 12, as shown on "Map of
Peconic Homes", filed in the S.uffolk~County~Clerk's'Office as Map
$4t81,; from .said point' of beginning running'along said lot 12 as
shown on said map, S. 44° 53' 30" W~.~ 209.98 feet to land of'C.P.F.
Land Corp; thence along said land of'C.P.F. Land Corp; N. 47° 59~
20" ~.- 667.35 feet.; thence along land of Frederick' Hehn, N. 44°
53' 30" E.- 5-18.49 feet; thence along the westerly end of a
private'road'known as "Miami.Avenue" and along land of Florence
Gowan, S. 42° 09' 30" E~- 289.60 feet; thence along land of Peter
Sienk, three courses: ~1) S. 49° 56' 30" E.- 179.1 feet; thence
~2) S. 37° 46' 30" E.- ,70.80 feet; thence (3) N. 62° ,24' 30" E.-
44.75 feet;~ thence along land of Henry'J.~ Smith,three courses:
(1) S. 24° 42' 50" E.- 106.65 feet; thence (2) N.~65° 17' i0" E.-
150.0 feet; then'c~ ~3) S. 24° 42' 50" E.- 135'.0~feet to the
northerly line of a proposed highway to be known as "Soundview
Avenme"; thence along- said northerly line S. '65° 1,7 ' t0'"' W. -
301.01 feet; thence across said "Soundview Avmnue", and along
land of Long Island Lighting'Company, S. 4'2° 09' 30"' E.~- 194.27'
feet; thence along lot 25 as shown' on said "Map of Peconic Homes",
S. 47o 50' 30"~W.- 186.18 feet'~ tothe easterly line of said "Henry's
Lane"; thence along said easterly line,
N. 45° 06~ 30" W~- 81%12 feet; thence~across said "'Henry's Lane"',
S~ 44° 53~ 30" W.- 50.0 feet. to the point of begining.
Vote of t~e Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham, Mr~ Moisa, Mr.
Unkelbach, Fir.- Coyle.
The P~an~Board received from the Town Board~the
original~petition'ofCasbor, Inc%~ Ma~tituck, NewYork,
relative to a change of zone from~'~'' Residential~and
AgriculturalDistrict-to '"B~2" BusinessDistriet with the
instrnctions to prepare an official report-defining the
conditions described'in the petition and determine~the
area so effected With the recommendation of the planning
Board.
Southold Town Planning Board
--'9--
~June 20, 1967
This~ application i~s on certain real property situated
lying and1being at Mattituck, Town of Southold, County'of
Suffolk and State of New York, bounded and describe'd as follows:
BEGINNING~at a concrete monument~on the southeasterly side
of Westphalia Avenue atthe northwesterlycorner of the premises
herein described; funning thence along Westphalia Avenue two
courses and distances: (1) South 70° 00' East 116.10 feet to a
monUment: ~) South 36° 23' 40" East 125.00 feet to a monument
and Middle'Road C.R. 27; zunning thence southwesterly along
Middle Road C.R. 27' on a curve to the ~ight'having a radius of
1799.86 feet to a distance of 306.90 feet~to land of Kaiser;
running thence along said. land of KaiSer, North~67° 39' 30"
West 205.85 feeb to a monumentat the southwesterly cornez
or'premises herein described; running thence Nor.th36° 47' 30"
East 358.96 feet to the monUment at the point or place of
beginning.
On motion by Mr. Moisa~ seconded by Mr. Unkelb~ach, it was
RESOLVED that the Southold .Town Btanning Board does not
favorably recommend-to the Town Board the change of zone ~from
,A" Residential and Agrioltural Districtto "B~2" Business
District on the above described property.
The Board finds this property is in close proximity to a
church and it is their opinion not suitable for business use.
~Vote of the Board: Ayees:- Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr.
Unkelbach, Mr.~ Coyle.
On motion by Mr. Moisa, seconded~byMr. UnkelbaCh, it was
RESDLVEDthat the minutes of the Southold Town Planning Board
dated May 9, 1967~ be approved as submitted.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- ALL
On motion by Mr, Moisa, seconded by Mr. Unkelbach,. it was
RESOLVED that-the minutes of the Southold Town' Planning
Board dated May 15, 1967, be approved as submitted.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- AT.L
$outhold Town Planning Board -10-
June 20, 1967
The next-regular meeting of. the Southold Town Planning
Board will be held at' 7:30 P%M~', Tuesday, JulY-18,~ 1967, at
the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York.
10:00
The meeting~vas adjourned at~E~ P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Barbara-C. Di~mann, Secretary
Southold Town Plann'ing BOard
JOI~I~ W~ICKHAM, CI4A~