HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-12/13/1977JOHN WlCKHAM, Chairman
FRANK S. COYLE
HENRY E. RAYNOR, Jr.
FREDERICK E. GORDON
JAMES WALL
Southold, N.Y. 11971
TELEPHONE
765- 1938
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was
held at 7:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 13, 1977 at the Town Hall,
Main Road, Southold, New York.
Present were:
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry E. Raynor, Jr., Vice-Chairman
Frank S. Coyle, member
Frederick E. Gordon, member
Franklyn Bear, North Fork Environmental Council
Stephen Katz, L. I. Traveler-Watchman
Peter Campbell, Suffolk Times
Absent was:
James Wall, inclement weather
7:30 p.m. Public hearing on the question of the approval of the
minor subdivision of property of Appolonia Kirchgessner situated
at Mattituck, Town of Southold, County of Suffolk and State of
New York. Present were Attorneys Abigail Wickham and William
Wickham.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing and presented proof
of publication in the L. I. Traveler-Watchman.
Mr. Wickham: This is a minor subdivision. The file is complete.
It has been before us before and was sent back because there
were some questions about the right-of-way and the width of the
lane and so forth. These have been resolved. The file is
complete. The questions and reservations of the Planning Board
have been met. At this time, I will ask for anyone that wishes
to be heard in opposition to this subdivision.
Fred Pivko: On the subdivision, we are gaining about 2200 square
feet of property according to our original deed of purchase. I
don't understand it.
Mr. Wickham: Our understanding from the view of the Planning
Board is that when this was changed to 150, these would be conveyed
out. Are you willing to assure the Planning Board and Mr. and
Mrs. Pivko that this will be conveyed?
Planning Board -- -2- - December 13, 1977
Ms. Wickham: The twenty-foot strip will be conveyed.
Mr. Wickham: We insisted that it not be a fifty-foot road.
Mr. Pivko: I do not understand why we are getting something for
nothing.
Mrs. Pivko: Are you going to offer us no tax increase either?
We end up with something we did not ask for and are we going to
have to pay for it?
Mr. Wickham: If your grandmother or grandfather were to die
and leave you property, would you not pay the tax? This cost
you nothing. You certainly should be willing to pay the carrying
charges on it.
Mr. Pivko: Why wasn't it deeded originally with the purchase?
Mr. Wickham: At that time the Planning Board felt a fifty-foot
road was called for. Now, it is obvious that it isn't. There
will be a different kind of development there and there is no need
for this connection.
Mr. Pivko: That makes up for the 150 feet?
Mr. Wickham: If it is all on your side, then you gain that much.
You certainly should be willing to pay for the value because taxes
are assessed on the value.
Ms. Wickham: We are also going to have to change the location
of the road.
Mr. Wickham: You have no objection though, really.
Mr. Pivko: We just wanted to know why.
Mr. Wickham: We will not allow a subdivision which leaves a
sliver of land. It has to be accounted for. Otherwise, somebody
might come in and say I o~na a sliver of land and want to put a
house on it. At this time, I would like to ask for anyone that
wishes to be heard in favor.
Ms. Wickham: I represent Mrs. Kirchgessner and I would like to
ask for approval.
Mr. Wickham: This has been presented before and we sent it back
for revision to provide for this map, these changes which you have
made and, if there are no further comments or suggestions, I will
declare the hearing closed. Thank you very much.
7:50 p.m. Public hearing on the question of the approval of the
minor subdivision of property of Lloyd E. Terry located in Orient,
Town of Southold, County of Suffolk and State of New York.
December 13, 1977
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing and presented proof
of publication in the L. I. Traveler-Watchman.
Mr. Wickham: The file is complete. This is a two lot minor
subdivision in Orient. It was presented, discussed, changed,
re-presented, held for public hearing and the hearing adjourned
and we are here again apologizing for the delay which was required
by legal technicalities. I will now ask for anyone that wishes
to be heard in opposition to this two lot minor subdivision on
Long Island Sound at Orient. Hearing none, I will ask for those
that wish to be heard in favor of it.
Lloyd Terry: I am in favor of it. I have a question.
you read 1950 feet. Isn't it 2600?
I believe
Mr. Wickham: If you add the 680, it would be 2600 feet. You are
quite right. It is normal under these circumstances for the
Planning Board, when we have oversized lots and your two lots
are over three acres, to ask for a covenant and restriction to
say that these lots will not be resubdivided.
Mr. Terry: They were to be not under three acres.
Mr. Wickham: When this is approved and I assume it will be,
having heard no adverse comments, it will be subject to receipt
of covenants and restrictions.
Mr. Terry: Has a copy gone to the County Planning Board?
Mr. Wickham: Yes.
Mr. Terry: It is in the process of approval?
Mr. Wickham: Right. We will declare the hearing closed and thank
you very much, Lloyd.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to amend the minutes of the meeting of November 21,
1977, page 6, to say "site" rather than "sketch" regarding the
resolution giving approval for Southold Savings Bank.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
The next meeting of the Planning Board will be held January lO, 1978.
8:00 p.m. Public hearing on the question of the approval of the
final map of the subdivision known as "Woodbine Manor" located at
Cutchogue, New York, and owned by John and Olivia Fellinger-Ihar.
Planning Board - -4- - December 13, 1977
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing aud presented proof of
publication in the L. I. Traveler-Watchman.
Mr. Wickham: We will have to have something in the file from the
Superintendent of Highways. Our Planning Board engineer, we do
not have his report. At this time, I will ask for those that
wish to be heard in opposition to this subdivision. I would like
to make the point that the last time this subdivision was heard,
there were some adjoining farmers that were concerned, as the
Planning Board and as the Town Board is concerned, about the break-
up of agricultural properties. I would like to have that appear
in the minutes. At this time, I will ask for those that wish to
be heard in favor of this subdivision.
Donald Mahoney, Esq.: I am an attorney with the firm of
Scheinberg, Wolf, Lapham, DePetris ~nd Pruzansky. Mr. Shepard
Scheinberg has been handling this matter for the applicants and
could not be here this evening and asked that I appear on their
behalf. The applicants are here and will answer auy questions.
The hearing this evening is for final approval. The preliminary
was given October 19, 1977 subject to two things, a short radius
curve at the corner of Duck Pond Road and Bridge Lane which was
the discrepancy in the description which has been worked out with
the town and the small piece will be dedicated to the town and
will not remain in the applicant's name and we will not have a
portion of the road bed. The other was that the town acquire the
twenty-foot strip between lots 20 and 21 to afford them access
to the drainage area. I understand that has been taken care of
by a twenty foot strip at the northerly terminus of That Lane.
The town will have access across this strip to the drainage basin
as opposed to getting the fee title. It will be an easement to
provide for the drainage. The map creates twenty-two lots. The
applicants have agreed to dedicate approximately one acre to be
used for the drainage recharge basin and also did agree to dedi-
cate 55,000 square feet for parkland and provide the necessary
drainage easements. This evening, we are requesting approval of
the final map as submitted.
Mr. Wickham: The town has never accepted dedication of park
areas. You have to maintain it in park area but the town has
not accepted dedication at this time. The Superintendent of
Highways is on vacation at the present time and we are not able
to verify your statements in regard to the right-of-way and
easement but this is my understanding. I understand as you have
stated but I think that the Planning Board will not agree to this
in final form until we see it over the signature of the Super-
intendent of Highways, the Town Board and Highway Committee or
some agency. It is our understanding but it has not been
finalized.
Mr. Mahoney: When could that happen?
Mr. Wickham: We can approve subject to. It is our understanding
as you have stated. I can't say more than that because we can't
finalize it.
Mr. Raynor: Have you talked to the Building Department office
Planning Board - -5- - December 13, 1977
or had any correspondence for street names or approval for them?
I don't see any Department of Health stamps.
Mr. Mahoney: I did not receive a copy of the final map. Have
you a copy with the Health Department approval, Mr. Ihar?
Mr. Ihar: No.
Mr. Wickham: I would like to point out one other thing. We have
sent tentative maps to the County Planning Commission but it remains
to send final maps to the County Planning Commission as this is
within 500 feet of salt water.
Pudge site plan. James Gray and William B. Smith appeared.
This is a site plan for the property where Chinam is located.
Mr. Wickham stated that this had bypassed the Planning Board and
some misguided architect had put a French Provincial roof on it.
More of this departure from Colonial will not be approved by the
Planning Board. Mr. Gray said he would rent out the buildings
and he would accept the responsibility and upkeep of the property.
He will also exercise control over signs. The present post office
lease expires November l, 1978. 157 parking is required. 20% of
the land is covered by the building. About 15,000 square feet
of landscaping is shown. The question was asked if this sort of
mall is added into the landscaping and Mr. Wickham answered not
usually and he may get into trouble because more than 20% of the
property is covered. The first thing the Planning Board will do
is turn it over to the building inspector for him to compute
these things. The primary problem is too much of the area is
covered. Mr. Raynor requested some more copies of the plan. Mr.
Wickham expressed concern about buffering because the parking is
right up to the edge of the property.
8:30 p.m. Public hearing on the question of the approval of the
final map of subdivision known as "Centennial M~nor, Section One"
owned by Albert J. Luglio and others, located in Cutchogue, Town
of Southold, County of Suffolk and State of New York. Richard
Cron, Esq., appeared.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing and presented proof
of publication in the L. I. Traveler-Watchman.
Mr. Wickham: This map has been gone over and sent back and
changed and revised and so forth. It was presented about two
years ago. This is the final hearing. There are still pending
final approval from the Suffolk County Planning Commission, the
report from the Superintendent of Highways, the report from the
Planning Board engineer and there may well be some others. We
have to get the bond estimate first and get it approved aud so
forth. The fact remains that our file is complete as regards
holding this hearing. At this time, I will ask for anyone that
wishes to be heard in opposition. Hearing none, I will ask for
anyone that wishes to be heard in favor of the subdivision
"Centennial Manor, Section One".
Planning Board - -6- - December 13, 1977
Richard Cron, Esq.: I would like to say a few words on behalf of
the approval of the map. This has been pending for quite some
time. I would hope that all the requirements have been filled by
now and in the file. I trust this will not be delayed unduly long
and in a short time it will be sent to the Planning Commission.
We have complied with all the regulations of the tow~. I would
respectfully ask that the board pass a resolution giving approval.
Mr. Wickham: There should be an affidavit of ownership.
Mr. Raynor: There is an oversight by your engineer. In the
instance that the rest of the property is not subdivided, dot in
turnarounds.
Mr. Wickham: Anyone else have any suggestions or comments?
there is nothing else, I will declare the hearing adjourned.
Thank you very much.
If
Cutchogue Joint Ventures. Richard Cron, Esq., appeared.
Mr. Cron presented five revised copies of the map.
Nina Stevens. Richard Cron, Esq. appeared.
Mr. Cron presented five copies of the revised map.
Lawrence Sto~an minor subdivision. Mr. Stojan and George
Stankevich, Esq., appeared.
The request is for the road to be changed from 50 feet to 30 feet.
Mr. Stankevich requested something in writing that the Planning
Board will approve a minor subdivision of three lots aud either
30 feet or 50 feet. Mr. Wickham asked that if the Planning Board
should say they have no objection and hope that Mr. Stojanwould
defer final until he finds what the county will do. Mr. Wickham
says that he finds no problem whatsoever. He just feels Mr.
Stojan should not commit himself until the County is definitely
committed and he is ready to sue. Mr. Raynor said the Planning
Board basically approves the concept. Mr. Stankevich asked that
in the event the county buys the development rights, the Planning
Board has no objection to the concept of three lots with a 30
foot right-of-way. Mr. Wickham answered in the affirmative.
Drell Corporation. Lewis Edson appeared.
Mr. Wickham read the letter from the building inspector indicating
that there was sufficient parking area. Mr. Edson presented
profiles of the building and they were accepted by the board.
Planning Board - -7- -- December 13, 1977
9:10 p.m. Public hearing on the question of the approval of the
preliminary map of subdivision inown as "Southold Gardens" owned
by Richard Babcock and Fred F. Rimmler, located at Southold, Town
of Southold, County of Suffolk ~nd State of New York.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing and presented proof
of publication from the L. I. Traveler-Watchman.
Present were Gary Flanner Olsen, Esq., Philip Babcock, Daniel
Smith and Raymond Dickerson.
Mr. Wickham: The first presentation was made in 1975 and received
a preliminary plat approval in 1976. The first public hearing
was 7/12/76 and we are back now with a second preliminary hearing.
The file is complete as is necessary for this hearing. At this
time, I will ask for anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition
to this subdivision.
Mr. Smith: I have no objection aud it doesn't make any difference
to me but tonight on that description of Dickerson at 187.92 feet,
about 38 feet of that from Bridge down is mine. I sold that lot
to Dickerson but only 150 feet. I don~t know if it would make auy
difference when you file the map.
Mr. Raynor: Gary, pick that up on the final.
Mr. Wickham: I will now ask for those that wish to be heard in
favor of this subdivision.
Gary Flanner Olsen,~ Esq.: I am the attorney for the applicants.
We have been before this board on several occasions and we do
have sketch plan approval. It is a cluster concept with 12.056
acres of which 5.3 would be open area. We do have municipal
water, as you know, and we feel that the map should be approved.
It meets all of the town regulations. There is a problem on
Hill Road West with water and we felt this would be helpful on
that, too. We have a sand drain in the middle of the subdivision.
Mr. Wickham: I would like to see a more complete sketch of the
vertical sand drain showing the distance down to permeable soils
and so forth.
Mr. Olsen: I will contact the engineer on this.
Mr. Wickham: We need to make sure that the sand drain is of the
proper size and that it goes all the way through the topsoil and
impermeable subsoils and it should be so shown on your sketch,
on your profile map. I want to make this clear not fur your sake
but really for ours because when our engineer checks up on it
and finds your contractor working on it, we want to have every-
thing established.
Mr. Raynor: You realize this will have to go to the County.
Mr. Wickham: I want to say one other thing and I think this is
more or less understood. We don't have it established here but
there have been discussions between this board ~nd the owners
for some time about the drainage problem that you mentioned a
few minutes ago on Hill Road West. I would guess that our engineer
Planning Board - -8- -- December 13, 1977
might want a double catch basin at this point but it seems to me
you show a catch basin.
Mr. Olsen: We show catch basins that our existing on Hill Road
West that are there already.
Mr. Wickham: We may f~nd and it has been brought to our attention
and the owners have brought it to our attention that there has
been a problem there and this must be recognized and although
this is open space there and will be open space and vastly reduces
the problem of runoff, still our engineer will have to make a
report and I think it can be more or less expected that some minor
addition might be in order. He might require one more catch
basin.
Mr. Olsen: We will have to wait and see. We are as much
perturbed as anybody.
Mr. Wickham: It was brought to my attention five years ago, and
because it has been brought to our attention we want it to show
on the record that we recognize it as a problem. Does ~ny other
member of the board have any comment or discussion?
Mr. Coyle: We will have to wait for the engineer's report anyhow
and we will have to take it under consideration.
Mr. Wickham: I will declare the hearing closed.
Macari subdivision. Gary Flanner Olsen, Esq. appeared. It was
suggested that the engineer place stakes where the roads will be
located and then the board will go down aud look at it.
9:30 p.m. Public hearing on the question of the approval of the
preliminary map of subdivision know~ as "Country Club Estates"
owned by Philip L. Babcock and others, located in Cutchogue, Town
of Southold, County of Suffolk and State of New York. Gary Flanner
Olsen, Esq., and Philip Babcock appeared.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing ~nd presented proof
of publication in the L. I. Traveler-Watchman.
Mr. Wickham: In checking the list, I find we do not have the
Superintendent of Highway's review or the report of the Planning
Board engineer. We have a disclosure statement. The file seems
to be in order at this point and this is the preliminary hearing.
I will ask for those that wish to be heard. This was first
presented some few months ago. I will ask for those that wish to
be heard in opposition to this subdivision on Linden Lane and
Route 25 in Cutchogue entitled Country Club Estates. Hearing
none, I will ask for those that wish to be heard in favor of it.
Mr. 01sen: As you have indicated, this has been before the
board for some time. We have made the changes periodically as
Planning Board - -9- -- December 13, 1977
requested by the board and the preliminary map reflects the
changes requested by the Planning Board. The subdivision meets
all the minimum requirements of the town and I urge its approval.
Mr. Wickham: I haven't looked at the restrictions in detail but
there was some discussion about restricting lot 32 so it could
not be subdivided nor could it be applied for a zoning change.
Also, that you would not present it at some future time for a
downzoning.
Mr. Babcock: I have no intention of doing that.
Mr. Coyle: It should be part of the record.
Mr. Wickham: Are you willing to covenant that?
Mr. Babcock: I don't know why not. That is what we agreed to,
isn't it? The only thing I suggested to you is that we thought it
would be advantageous at some time to have tennis in there for
recreation.
Mr. Wickham: I would suggest that you put that in your covenants
and restrictions and say that you would like, be specific, that
you would like to reserve the right.
Mr. Olsen: It would probably require, at the very least, a
special exception. It is probably allowed in the use district
but with special exception.
Mr. Wickham: We don't have to say that as long as you say you
will not use it for business purposes.
Mr. Raynor: If the use is held within the subdivision or the
association, your problem is resolved.
Mr. Babcock: My son wants me to put trees in there. I don't
know if that would be a part of this thing. He is under the
impression that he can g~ow trees in there.
Mr. Raynor: In reviewing the map quickly with the engineer,
there was some question in computing the park and recreation
area. There was a feeling that the drain had been included as
an oversight for square footage of the park and recreation area.
His contention is it should not be and he will make a statement
to that effect.
Mr. Wickham: I don't know as we need a statement. We do not
allow the drainage facilities to be included as part of the
park and playground.
Mr. Raynor: In looking at it, I would guess he is probably
right.
Mr. Wickham: Let me go back to this lot 32 because I think that,
although we are on the same wavelength, we have not pinned down
what we want to say. What I want to say is that it will not be
resubmitted. I want a covenant that will bind the heirs, assigns
Planning Board -- -10- -- December 13, 1977
and successors in title that it will not be further subdivided,
so that it will only be used for those uses which are allowable
in the present zoning. This would include special exception
and if you want to cite by including a special exception for a
non-commercial tennis court, then you have stated what you might
do with it. Then, he can grow tress and sell them and this and
that.
Mr. Babcock: Previously, lyou suggested that the house be removed.
Mr. Wickham: Only because there are two houses on the lot.
Mr. Babcock: Would you prohibit it ever being moved to the east?
Mr. Wickham: You are allowed a house on lot 32.
Mr. 01sen: Does the Planning Board really wish to have two houses
on one parcel? The Planning Board doesn't care about that, does
it? There are two dwelling units on lot 31.
Mr. Wickham: What you might consider and I would think would be
better is to make 33 lots and make 31 include the first house
and make it substandard and make the second one a full acre.
Mr. Raynor: It would make more sense than two substandard lots.
You would have to go to the Board of Appeals.
Mr. Wickham: What we say is if you do that, we will never approve
two substandard lots.
Mr. Raynor: If you left 31 as it is, it would create two sub-
standard units.
Mr. 01sen: You would want lot 31 to be 20,000 square feet or
18,500 square feet and a new lot 32 you would want to have 40,000
square feet and a new lot 33 which would be the remaining balance.
Mr. Raynor: If you have a thought of recreational use for lot
32, perhaps you may want to insert a walking easement between 26
and 27 or 27 and 28.
Mr. Olsen: We can discuss that.
Mr. Raynor: I am trying to keep it so kids won't have to go out
on the road.
Mr. Babcock: Supposing you wanted to play tennis. Supposing you
or I want to play tennis and someone could provide us a place.
That is what I am thinking of.
Mr. Wickham: Clubs are allo~d on special exception but on the
basis of a private club.
Mr. Babcock: We find that a lot of people like to play tennis.
Mr. Wickham: Anything that is allowable in an A zone we will do
there but what we are saying is you can't be open to all comers
Planning Board - -11- - December 13, 1977
for pay but can be open to anyone that wants to join your tennis
club. Any member of the board have any questions? I declare the
hearing closed. Thank you very much.
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to grant a 90 day extension in which to act for
the subdivision known as "Heritage Harbor" owned by Riverside
Homes, Inc. It will be required that a deed restriction regarding
the use district of lot #10 be received in this office and a
notation be placed on the map that lot #10 cannot be used for
business because the zone boundary line goes through it and the
ordinance states a lot so divided m~st have the higher use as
defined in Chapter 100, Article II ~100-22 Code of the Town of
Southold, New York.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
Nunnakoma Waters. Mr. Pellicane, Attorney for the Nunnakoma
Waters Association had requested that the following resolution
be passed by the Planning Board as per conversation with Mr.
Wickham.
"RESOLVED, that this Board would not have approved the
Map of Nunnakoma Waters for filing during the year 1968 with-
out the legend affixed thereon which restricted the sale of
Lots Nos. 8, 7, 6, 5 and 4 until such time as public water
was made available to such lots; and, be it further
RESOLVED, that this Board would not at this time approve
such a filing without the same restriction, it being the
Board's opinion that construction of homes and the sale of
same will result in a rate of water which cannot be sustained
by the sub-soil conditions at this site."
Mr. Coyle is not willing to comment on this because it happened
ten years ago. Mr. Wickham wanted to state for the record that
it states in the legend, "The owner will retain ownership of lots
no. 8, 7, 6, 5, 4 until such time as public water is available
to these lots." Mr. Wickham stated that this was not only the
action of the county but it was suggested by the Planning Board
because some of the members were familiar with this property and
Mr. Wickham is intimately familiar with it because it was barrier
beach with salt ponds behind and it was a suggestion of this
board that lead to the inclusion of this statement on the map.
To support this, Mr. Wickham stated that there is in the file
the coastal geodetic survey which, in fact, shows salt ponds in
the location of the above-numbered lots. This is the reason the
attorney suggested the above resolution. Mr. Wickham read the
above suggested resolution and then stated, "I would like to add
to that because this is a barrier beach arrangement with salt
ponds behind and it was filled resulting in a layer of bog on
the landward side. I have talked to Henry Moisa and he has
Planning Board - -12- - December 13, 1977
basically the same recollection of this as I have although he had
the same comment as Sparky that this was ten years ago but we do
have three members of that board available. The developer presented
a request to the town to run a series of pipes up the road to
put in wells further back and this was not approved by the town
because of the restriction here. This is also a matter of record
and the town supported this at that time."
Mr. Raynor inquired of Mr. Bear as to what lot he lived on and he
replied no. 3. Mr. Raynor asked if any lots had trouble getting
water and Mr. Bear said that no. 22 had to go back as far as they
could. In answer to the question as to whether Mr. Bear had any
problem, Mr. Bear replied that they had put in two wells as the
first wasn't any good. Mr. Raynor asked if the developer holds
any two lots that are bordering on each other besides the lots in
question and Mr. Bear answered in the negative. Water tests were
done for five gallons per minute for an undetermined amount of
time. Mr. Wickham said the board wants to know sustained pumping
because sustained pumping for three months in the summer months
can cause trouble in our town. Mr. Coyle thought the matter
should be turned over to Mr. Tasker, the town attorney. Mr.
Wickham asked if the Board would approve the resolution subject
to the approval of the Town Attorney. Mr. Raynor said he wanted
to look at the property and also be sure the town attorney agrees
with the resolution.
Motion was made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle and
carried to approve the minutes of the meeting of November 21,
1977.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to join the New York Planning Federation for the
year 1978 and authorize payment of the $55.00 annual dues.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon
A letter is to be directed to Mr. Sto~an indicating what
the minutes show regarding his minor subdivision.
Mr. Wickham requested that Mr. Bear collate, organize and
present to the Planning Board with his comments any and all of
the comments and suggestions received as a result of sending out
the Summary of the Plan of Development for the Town of Southold.
Motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon and
carried to adjourn the meeting. Meeting adjourned at 10:40 p.m.
Chairman
Respectfully submitted
Muri~l Brush~Secretary