Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-09/01/1965 SO .... g B ut. hold Town Plannin oard '~OUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y,~ PLANNIN~ I)OAR D MEMBEI~S John ~ickh.m, Ch~irm~n Henry Moisa Alfred ~ebe Archibeld Young ~illJam Un~eJbach MIN'UTES SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD September 1~i 1965 A regular-meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held at 7:30 P.M.,~? Wednesday,~i September 1.~ 1965,~ at-the Town Office,il Main ROad~! Southold;! New York. There were present: Messrs: John Wickham~!~ Chairman~j Henry Moisa,~ ~rChibald Younger!-Alfred Grebe. '- Absent: Mr. William Unkelbach Also present: Mrl Otto Van-Tuyl~-Consultant; F~r. Howard Terry~. Building'Inspector, THE CHAIRMAN opened the meeting by reading Notice of'Hearing~ Proof of Publication~ and notedthat-there were two affidavits from the Long IsiandTraveler-Mattituck-Watchman~ and one'from the Suffolk Times. The'Chairman then read the propo~edamendments ~to the Rules and Regulations for the Subdivision of Lands in the Town of-Southol~~ THE CHAIRMAN: I would just 1/keto say that these amendments are the result of discussionsbetween the Planning Board and the Town Board~ with further consultation with the Board of Appeais~ This has been over a period of more than one yaar~ and they haven't been entered into with.ut a good deal of deliberation. Southold Town Planning -2- SeptJ 1~ 1965 At the Present time we are unable to reduce performance bonds whensome censtruction has been made. Now~ again I want to say that these amendments to the Rules and Regulations fer Subdivision of Land pertain only to subdivisions which are filed as subdivisions and over which the Planning Board has been given final authority by the Town Board. These have been presented to the Town Board and they have approved it. When and if this hearing is completed and if the balance of sentiment expressed and known to be held is deemed~ in the view of this Planning Board, to favor the adoptien of these~ the Planning Board can and should adopt them. If~ on the other hand~ there is expressed opposition to these and it is deemed by the Planning Board that the points made are pertinent and that there is enough sentiment in the Town to support it, overweighing those whe favor this~ then the Planning Board can reject~ presumably~ the whole of these recommendations or~ in some certain circumstances~ some, Now~ I lay this before you simply to tell you this has not been entered into lightly~ nor without a great deal of study. It has the approval of the Town Attorney and the Town Board. These are recommendations to amend the Rules and Regulations fer Subdivision of Land~ and are made to up-date our existing Rules and Regulations. At this time I will open the hearing to discussion and call for all those who might wish to be heard in opposition Go these recom- mendations. (No response.) THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, I will ask if there is anyone in favor of these amendments to the Rules and Regulations for Subdivision of Land. MR. HOWARD SCHWARTING and ethert representing the Southold Civic Association appeared before the Board. MR. SCHWARTING: Mr. Chairman~ I think these amendments are very good, Only one thing, in Item ~11~ page 2~ "IDENTIFICATION and DESCRIPTION", item (w); The minimum thickness for sidewalk.s shall be four (4) inches of 1:2:4 concrete mixture or equal." - it doesnZt state anything about the sub-base under the concrete. If a developer goes in he can grade off to grade and put in his concrete. Eventually~ what happens - you get cracked sidewalks and then the Town will have to do them over again. THE CHAIRMAN: Your point is well taken~ but I think you will find in a previous item - Item 11 is changed to make it conform to the change in Item 7 and in Item ? it says~ "Sidewalks shall Southold TOWn Planning Board -3- September 1~ 1965 be standard four ~4) foot in width,~ four (4) inch~s thick except in driveways w~ere 'they must be not less than ss (6) inches All curbs and gu~tters to be built to they may be directed by the highways the Town witl furnish the filling and labor..~.o~" The thing we?~ave make it correspond with Item 'T, picture° . MR~~ SCHWARTING: Is this pu~ting a places~, "curbs and g%~tterS'oo.o~"? Does th.'~s development.coming Town gra¢ting~ ~ to the ~n these new THE CHAIRMAN: Agaf. n~~ in Item 74 the final sentance® "The amount of sidewalk .co~tzuction/~_~oughout be determined by th~ Town. B;O~rd~ '~ They have estab~ sidewalk This whole ways,~ et¢i~, is division D~par tmento ~:iS. ~ twenty--four. and still say ' Regulations to THE subdlvisi~s so it doest: bUild, rs of h~ ~.d, ~- were. estqbli~he~ six" gees be~o~e th~/~own ~§oard. ' MR%~ SCHWA~TING: It gees ~d~ecihlY THE CHAIRMAN: He can~0~' lay ~on~ ~d h~s a Pr-el'~nary con~er~e will% the ~h. en turn the there ) to Southold Town Planning Board -4- September m~ 1965 THE CHAIRMAN: I~ personally® cannot answer this° It states it must be up to standard forms and up to. the approval of the Superintendent of Highways. MRs& SCRWARTING: Iem interested mostlyin-after the forms are up and the'material is putin and then after the sidewalk is iaid~l what guarantee does the town hav~ that they do not have to build it again. .THE CPL~IRMAN: This matter hasn't come up. The Planning Board,~ at the present-time~ does not require sidewalk construction:and it has been our experience in all cases the developer does not exceed the requirements of thegoverning body~z~n~ in view of the fact that the Town Board or the HighwayDepartment will assist in side- walk construction whenand if the Town Board decides .it is neces- sary. It's rather obvious no subdivider is going toput in side- walks at the present time° Don~t think .for a minute that this closes the'book on amendments. In two orthree years~! or ~ne yearW ~2--k there maybe very real problems that~emergeo Then we spend another year of~hassel/ng and discussing with interested parties the best ways to'handle it. One thing that I amper- sonally quite interested in - I~m a Civil Engineer bytraining anddid quite a lot of sidewalkwork in college dayso One of the things you get in trouble with is ~ knowing what your base is and since in the Town of Southold we have some soils which provide swell highway bases and some which provide very poor highway'base - we are pushing fer all we are worth for an updated soil map for ~he Town of Southold and the Soil and Water Con- servation Service'has cited.Southotd for the first partof their study and will have a soil map within a year~ MRj SCHWARTING: Has there ever been a soil analysis? THE CHAIRMAN: A soil map was made about 40 years ago.. With an updated soil map we can look'at a subdivision and put a soil map overlay on and see Where we have clay-or bank l~run~! etCo This is what's in the offing and When that time comes our highway specifications will be amended again, Is there anyone else who wishes to beheard on the Rules andRegulations? M~ E2 ABITZ ~uilder): Mro Chairman~~ has the Board con- sider~d puthing in gutters in the new subdivisions? THECHA]!~MAN: No~ 'the TOWn highway SPecifications do not require it. We are-rather hesitant tomake out'Rules and.Regu- lations more stringent than theTown~'s regUlations. Hat©id:Price Southold Town Planning Board -5- September 1~ 1965 and I are good frliends and I feel he is doing a good job in the updating of their specifications - they have delegated us the authority'and I personally would be rather slow atmaking our specifications more stringent than theirs. Maybe it should be done~ but there has been no sentiment for it. MR~TM ABITZ: Harold would know~ based en washouts. MRj VAN TUYL: He has refused to accept certainhighways where the gutters havenet been up .to specifications. MRo' ABITZ: If gutters are required~ washouts would beelim~ inated. I think it would bean asseton highwayregulations~ YOUNG: You feel it would be necessary? MRo~ ABIT~: I feel subdivisions should have gutters. THE CHAIRMAN: The controlling factor in khe development of the Town of~Southoldand in the foreseeable future is ~rater -- freshwater. Some of us know thatRiverhead is gettinga salt water conversion plant. Southold needs it~ but is not getting it. Therefore~ forthe foreseeable future~ our limiting factor is going to be water. We are currently using more than $0% of the total available water so that in all time we nevercan have more than maybe 60% oflourlteta! population density. We are presently growing 3 or 5% a year~ so that in 20 years we will reach a point beyond Which we can never goo Every time you line a gutterwith any waterproofing material~ youreduce substantially the amount of water which runs into the ground and it is diverted to 10w spots and~ in general~ to the salt water and is lost. For th~s reason~ particularly in climates such as ours where the ground is not frozen and the water soaks into the soil and is available for irrigation and domestic use~ and wherethe slope is moderate~ it is my belieflwe should never have gutters in the Town of Southold. Where the pitch is steeps! of course it should be done~ but it should be kept to an absolute' minimum. MR~ AB!ITZ: This is based on returning fresh w~ter to the soil. 1~' SCRWARTING: This section on bituminous cutback. Has that been brought up to date with the Highway"Department? THE CHA'IRFa%N~ That is correct.~ I think it is waived in some cases~ butt heir specifications require it~, but ifltheywan, t to waive it that is their priviiege~ I':think-the people who build highways have ,the equipment to do :that., ~ayone,else Wh~ wishes to discuss any of the recommended changes? I don~t wish to cut Southold Town Planning Board -6-- Septembe~ ~1~,~ 1965 anybody off~ but we have quite a .lot~ of other business and if this cover~ it~ I will declare the hearing closed and at a later date ~this evening the Planning Board will take action on it. THE CHAIRMAN: With regard to Mattituck~Estates~ let me recall-for you just what-I'have done. M_ri Bergen go~ in touch with me and I called the County Board of Health today and talked with Mr. Villa and he says that if we will submit him a plan from this Board showing water'levels~ etc.~ 'that he will present it to the. Suffolk County 'Mosquito Extermina~ing ~Commission. They do not have authority in his understanding to countermand the ~ Rules and Regulations of the Planning Board of the Town of' Southold. I have tried to get ahold of-Bill Wickham to clear ~with him .to make sure that if we get clearance from the County Board of Health they can get clearance ~rom the Mosquito Commission. I have assurance it will clear' all right~ but I would like it from his lips rather than mine. They have approved the map to be filed. MR~ ~r.~ CHASE .~ttorney for Mattituck ~Estates): Will they want another map~ or is this one sufficient? THE CHAIRMAN: I would prefer tohave it sent in from this office and not from yours. From our point of view~ we're dis-- cussing Who has jurisdiction over this~ you see®~ and we need to know~ If the Planning Board has jurisdictions, as I believe they do~, and in a sense we can establish a precedent - it won't come up again. If it comes back in any way~ it is in our hands. MRj CHASE: I asked how many copies or'the maps were needed? THE CHAIRMAN: I would say three. Mr.., Chase s~atedthat the necess~ary maps would be in the: mail-to us within the next day or two. THE CHA~ ~/~/~N~' We need in the f~le a copy or'the· a~=~e~t~? a statement from the ToWn Board~l the TOwn' Cl~rk~ that,'~ this 'iis accepted.~ MRo CHASE: As I understand ~t~; the subdivision was approved at the last hearing subject to s~w~aring away ~the bond and the park area. Since that time~: I understand the .bond situation, was passed at the Fishers Island hearing. I have here an agreement that this is acceptable to the Town~Board~ the Planning Board~ ~nd Mattituck Estates. Very briefly~ P-ut~ ~P the bond~i~ the work will be done with~in a or the money c0u~d be used by the To~;n of.'SoU~hold for' the comple'tion SoutholdTown Planning B~ ~d -7- Septemb~. ~l~ 1965 of the roads° It also provides that the raising of the water level be done. The agreement~ a~ I said~ is between Mattituck Estates and the Planning Board. Provision is made in the agreement for the consent and approval of the North Fo~k Bmnk-and Trust-Company which holds the bank book~ Chester M~lot, and the Southold Savings Bank as mortgagees, and Mro Tuthill who has a parcel - all parties have been contacted and are in full agreementQ MattituckEstates has signed this. Mr. Wickhamwho represents Mr. Melot says it is fine in principle° He will go along with it as long as the Mosquito Extermination people go along° The Chairman then read a letter from Mr. Co T. Williamson of the Suffolk County Mosquito Control to ~ro William Wickham advising that they could not approve the pond area as proposed. He then stated that he thought-that this could be resolved now according to the~County Board of Health. MR. CHASE: We have the map here for signature. My under- standing is that if the-Suffolk CountyMosquito people tell Mro Wickham that it's all right with them~ the document will be ex- ecuted by his client. THECHAIPJCAN: I would like to have a resolution from the Planning Board that the Chmirman be authorized to sign this map when this is concluded and I see no reason why it could not be in a matter of ten days. It is certainly not necessary to w&it for another meeting. MRo'CHASE: It's possible that you won't resolve this juris- diction problem° Where does that~leave us, Mr. Chairman? Inci- dentally~ this land that this park area is to be done on is on somebody else~s land - we're really in a bind on this° Certain things can't be done - we have houses up with mortgage money being held up on° I see no difficulty, but it could be drawn out~ This organization is fighting for jurisdiction. THE CHALRMAN: Your point is well taken~ but I~m going to have to refer this to the~ Planning Board members 'to see what they wish to do about it. It must be obvious to you that almost every sub~- division kas a few loose ends hanging - this is an old story to us. MRo YOUNG: How did you make out with the Long Island Lighting? MRo CHASE: The telephone company 'has been signed forthe easement= butnothing from the Long Island Lighting. Not until we have a map. Perhaps Mr~ Wickham will go along with theCounty Health Departmentapproval - I don:t know. All we are looking for is Mr. and Mrs~ MetotCs signatures on this° Sh~4Zhold Town Planning Bo d -8- September ~ 1965 THE CHAIRMAN: Give us a chance to look this thing over° ~The Chairman was referring to 'the legal document,) 'You have a statement here~ Mr.. Chase.w on the second page~ "That the parties hereto agree to execute and sign any and all further d®cuments to effectuate the terms of the agreement as hereinbefore stated~?'. You believe that all your parties~ therefore~ will sign an agree- ment under oath that they agree to execute and sign. ~ny 'and all documents to execute the terms of this agreement? MRj CHASE: Yes~ this is what I insisted on in -the agreement. THE CHAIRMAN: All right then~ as far'as lam concerned there is this legal document which Me on the Planning Board a~e going to fight through.~ but if your people are willing to see this thing through with us - I can't see the~e is any problemo MR? YOUNG: I b~ve been thinking of this whole thing and I think Mr. Wickhamhas the thought in the back of-his mind that he wmnts to go slow on this because it~'s the first case of this kind - don~t want to have to answer on a similar matter a bit later. I don~t think he objects MR,~ C~SE: We are going to fight this power'struggle here. ·hey all have to justify their existence° MRj YOUNG: At the same time it is better to resolve it than get tt~.o.it will eventually~be resolved~... MRo CHASE: We will eventually get it resolved. The only thing we are concerned is is the "eventually." THE' CHAIRMAN: Again~. let-me clarify'this -- if the Planning Board authorizes the signature on this map to be filed~ you are prepared under the te~ms of this agreement'~ if it. takes a week or a month or a year - to get this thing cleared~ ~ou are ,still obligated and willing to go through with the construction of~this? CHASE: WithOut'question. THE CHAIRMAN: That is all I want to know. We will want these filled out in all places - I want it executed'by all parties~ by MR~ C~3~SE: TheSouthold Savings wonmt sign until THE C~: The thing I really want'are your people, ~ou ~thold ~own Planning Board September 1~ 1965 MRo CHASE: We have the signatures of our people. THE~CHAIRMAN: I will sign it and then as far as I_can see we have a legal document. -CAll copies -of the document were then signed by Hr, Wickham and Mrs. Chase.) On motion of H re Young~ seconded by Hr. Moisa~ it was RESOLVED that the Chairman be authorized to sign ther map of the Mattituck Estates with the comments and conditions as-shown in the minutes° Vote of the Board: Ayes: Hr.. Wickham~, Mr° Grebes. Hr. Y~ung and Mr. Moisa. There was no further action taken on the application of Dawn Estates~ subdivision at Greenport~ New¥orko IRVING Lo' PRICE~ Att®rney~ representing Rarus~ InCo appeared before the Board on behalf of his client. MR¥ PRICE: I don~t know whether you gentlemen are-aware of what is going to go in there° (Mr.' Priceexplained e~actly what type of nursing hom%;and the facilities it would contaln~ that was being considered~) We feel it will benefit the community as far as removing a definite eyesore~ benefitthe co~unityby employing a numberer persons - there Will be substantial payroll - and add to the assesssment rolls ofthe Town mud School Districts. We have a contract~from the seller which is contingenton a change of zone. There is some urgency .on the matterlbecause iris a long drawn out procedure. We respectfully request that the change of z~ne be looked upon with favorbYthis Board. THE CHA~: At~Ourllast meeting ~e discussed this and sent our team of investigators around to look'it ~er~ One of'the things we said then was that we would consider it good business to rezone the whole~-~&~ south side of th.e highwa~ from'~chaPel Lane east° This takes a little'time~ but so does passing it back and forth~ as you know. Southold Town Planning Board -10- September 1, 1965 Those present at the meeting then discussed present zoning in the area, who owned properties involved, etc. THE CHAIRMAN: This is one of those cases whereof speaking for'myself of course~ it would seem to me that the Planning Board should think well of ito It~'s just a question of how to do it. We are always warned against spot zoning~ and come up against it time after time. If the Town Board does it on their own motion~ it has to come back to us. I would say that this would be two or three weeks. PRICE: What de you hope to accomplish? THE CHAIRMAN: I don~t know that this makes too much differ- ence to the Town Board. It has been my observation that they don~t worry too much about it if they think it should be done. I think'this would be the tidiest way'to handle it~ PRICE: Who is going to initiate this to the T~n Board? THE CHAIRMAN: We will recommend to the Town Board that they rezone this area back to Chapel I~ne to tie into an existing business zone. ~ir. Price questioned the time element involved if the Town Board rezoned land belonging to someone else and these owners were to oppose ito THE CHA~: The procedure is that we simplyrecommend it to the Town Board. They will meet on Tuesday. They ~ill send it back tons for study and recommendation~ Before our next meeting we will probably get in touch'with these people and see if they care to appeal -- and if they have an answer at that time~ they can appeal. MRo YOUNG: We have to tie in some other land or else we will be spot zoning. THE CHAIRMAN: We are going to take a little time - everybody who comes in wants something done rlght~away. ~ PRICE: This has been in sinceljulyl5. That, s not "immediately." Southold Town Planning B .~d --11-- Septembe~ ~. 1965 The Chairman asked Fir. Terry if the Planning Board asked the Town Board to handle it~ and then find that the people involved oppose lt~. could we withdraw the recommendation and getl~back to the original application ? The answer was affirmative, MP~ PRICE: Is it my understanding that if these people do object that the Town Board will hold a hearing for this property alone ? THE C~~ Theywill be ali cleared for it. We have done this before and this saves you time and it saves us having to discuss this at some future time. If anything turns up~ they will hold a hearing on this. M~j PRICE: If thatAs the Board's feeling~ I guess we~d better take it, Mr. Young raised the question as to what assurance the Board had that if this propertywere to be rezoned that a nursing home wou~d actually be constructed on this spot. Mr, Price said there was~ of coursee al~ays a possibility ofresale~ but at the present time and to the best of his knowlege these were the plans~ andhe had.no reason to doubt that this would, in f~ct~..~'be carried through, On motion of Mro Moisa~ seconded by Mro Grebe~ it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board recommend a change ofzone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to "B---~" Business District~ on the property of Rarus~ Inc.~ situated in'Arshamomoque~. New York° The Planning Board further recommended thatthe ToWn Board on their own motion change from "A" Residential and Agricultural District-to "B~2" Business District the remaining property o~er to Chapel Lane. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Mr°. Wickha~ Mr° Grebe~ M~o Young~ and Mr~ Moisao MR~j GEORGE MC MANN.,' Attorney~ ap~ared before the ~Board in behalf~ of his client~ Mr. A~tone Norklun~ who was also present at the hearing. The Chairman opened the discussion by reading a letter da~ed August 18~ 1965.~ fromAlbert.'W~ Richmond~. Town~Clerk~ inStructing the Board to prepare an the'conditions described in the petition of~Allen A~ & H~ ~ickle~ of Southo~d ~own P~anning Board Septemberl~ 1965 Flushing~ New York~ relative to change of zone from "A" Residential and Gricultural District to "B" Business Districton certain property situated in Orient~ NEW York~ and determine the area so affected with the recommendation of the Board. The Chairman also.r~ad a description of the land as con- rained in the file. Mr. McMann discussed the location of the property on the map and stated that his clientwill discontinue 'the non-comformance. THE ~: I~; personally~ am much more aptto be favorably inclined toward people I know and places I know~ in other words~ coimuunities~.t/~an I ambywritten statements. Of coursed none of us live forever~ but we know a lot of desirable people. That is good enough for me. X The Planning Board is fully.in favor of this recommendation. MI{£ YOUNG: I have just one question --we should have sOmething for our records that this is his intent. ~ MC M~NN: Of course. On motion of'Mr. Moisa,~ seconded by Mr. Young~ it was RESOLVED that the Planning Board favorablyrecommend to the Town Board the ~change of zone from "A" Residential and Agri- cultural District to "B~2" Business District on the property of Allen Ao &Hazel E. Mickle as described in the files~ since this property has had a historyof business use prior to the adoDtion of the Ordinance. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Mr. Wickham~ Mr. Grebe~ Mr. Young and Mr. Moisa. MR. BLEEKER and MRj JACK RICHARDS appeared before the Board for an informal discussion about a prop®sed subdivision on property located on the east side of Bay-Home R6ad in the Town of~$outhold, A proposed canal~ streets~ lotsiZes~i and a possiblebusine, ss type bufferzone between homes and the MainROadwere discussed. They presented a rough sketch of the-proposed subdivision. They were advisedby the Board that th~y~were not in favor of rezoning that area of the Main;Road as a business district~ and that~they wou~d do. well to enlarge the s~e of ~heir-lots ink, view oft he water shortage in the~ Town of Southold. Southold Town Planning Board --13-- September 1.~ 1965 :~ The Board further, advised that -they present a preliminary map or'the area to the~ Board for' furth~er study, 'No further action was takenonthe application or'william j~ Pollert~residing at Southold~ New York~ retative-to changeof zone from"A"' Residentia!and Agricultural Districtto "B--2" Business District on-certain property situated atGreenport~ New Yor~. No furtheraction was taken on the application of~rtin Nelson,for a change'of z~e ~rom "A" to "B"o This matterwas held over until the next meeting. No further action was taken on the application of Harold R, Reeve for a change ofzone from "A" Residential and Agricul~ural Distrct-to "B~2" Business District, On the matter of Charlie~s:Lane. no further action was taken~ They are progressing with the work. No further action was taken on'Sterling ,Homes. /~ the m~tter of the application of Joseph,Hoey~. Town Harbor Estates~ there have been no-new developments~ so no furtheraction was taken~ On motion of Mr. Moisa~; seconded by Mr. Grebes. it was ~LV~D that the minutes of the:Aug~st-10~i ~9~5~: m~etingbo approved. Sou'thold Town Planning Bo~.d ~14~ Septembe: '~e~ 1965 Vote of the Board: Ayes: Mr. Wickh-am~. Mr. Grebe~ Mr. Young~ and M_r. Moisa. The Chairman advised that the Riverhead Town Planning Board would like to meet with the S0u~h~ld Town: Planning Board during the month of' Septemb~r~ The Charon requested Mr. Terry 'to con.tact-the Riverhead ToWn Plann~,mng Board' and ~invite them to come to Sou~hold for'~ a mee~in~ at 8~00 P.F~ .on September121~. 1965~, ~r~ September 28~ 19165~i if that~ is more convenient .for rheas. Terry a~nd Mr. Young will take care Of the ref=eshments for the evening. The meeting was ad3~urned at 10:30 Re~spectfu ~tly 9ub~mitted~, ~ aet G~ M~an~.~- Se~e~ary So~old T~n P~g Board '~OHN W~CK~A~ CHAiRmAN