HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-11/09/1965 Southold Town annin rd
SDLITHDLD. L. I.,N. Y.
PLANNINe BOARD
MEMBERS
John ~/icl~h~rr, C. helrman
Henry Moisa
AJfred
A~chib~ld Youn$
~./il li~ m Unlc~lbech
MINUTES
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
November 9, 1965
A regular meeting of the'Southold Town Planning Board
was held on November 9, 1965, at the Town Office~ Main Road~
Southold, New York, at 7:30
There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry
Moisa, Alfred Grebe, Archibald Young.
Absent: Mr. William Unkelbach. -(In'Europe on Business)
Also present: Messrs: Otto Van Tuylm Consultant; Howard
Terry, Building Inspector; AawrenceTuthill, Professional
Engineer.
Supervisor Albertson presented to the Board an offer of
deed and right-of-way to a piece of beach property-~nlEastern
Shores at Greenport. Mr. Morgan described the right-of-way
as being about 150 feet:off the west line. Mr. Schneider
stated that this is to be a continuing or permanent right-of-
way, 30 feet wide, subject to adjustment when the final map
is made of that parcel as a future section of Eastern Shores
at Greenport.
Southold Town Planning Board -2-
November 9~ 1965
The Chairman testa'ted that the beach area would fullfill
the Planning Board's requirements. However~ the highway
dedication is another matter. The Chairman stated that the
dedication of 300 feet might cover the highway dedication
requirements~ however~ this is a matter for the Town Board.
The Chairman advised that the Planning Board will not
recommend acceptance of highway dedication without~additional
~ater frontage.
THECHAIRMAN: We cannot guarantee now that the Town Board
will.settle for 300 feet. Many of the members of the Town Board
feel that 600 feet to 800 feet should be required. -We have
required developers with only 400 feet of waterfront to give
100 feet of this waterfront forthe highway dedication. We
have tried to tell you what we th~nk will be to your best
advantage and what will be to our advantage.
MR. SCHNEIDER:Isn't the~e an advantage to having this
-beach next to the Village property?
(It was agreed by all that it was probably better to have
the beach next to the Village property.)
MR. YOUNG: We think putting the required road ends all
in one parcel is better than scattered road ends.
MR.. SCHNEIDER: We are saving 170 feet~ plus or minus, for
our own private owners use.
THE C~: The extra 100 feet you will give for access
to the Village property is mandatory-to getaccess to the village
property. This blue print doesn't show the right-of-way as it
is described in the contract document. This is totally wrong.
We must have the correct right-of-way on the blue prin~.
We are prepared to accept the 200 feet. with correct
right-of~wayand not recommend dedication acceptance. I
restate, 200 feet just meets the planning Board requirements,
but not-the requirements for dedicationsofhighways in any
section or'Eastern Shores at Greenport.
SUPERVISOR ALBERTSON: I haven't been in on this up to
now. We will requiremore than 200 feet for any.dedication
of reads. I suggest this matter be re~negoti~d.
Southold Town Planning Board -3- November 94 1965
There was a lenghty dls¢~ property values~ r~ght-
of-~ay~ amounts of frontage :~ ales, etc~
MR. YUUNG: We can ask for 100 feet by-100 feet for each
road , but it is our opinion it is better to. have it in one
parcel. I thought we couldnegotiate at this point, but we
ma~y have made a mistake.
Muchfurther discussion was held on the- ~'~!ties
of developing the pond area, town acquistioh~, ~e .r~ads.
Also the alternative layouts of the proposed~ ~as
discussed.
SUPERVISOR Albertson stated that'he would try to call
a meeting of the Town'Board this we~ to further discuss this
matter with them.
The Chairman reminded Mr. Alden Young that thePlanning
Board had not yet received the additionalmaps of Mattituck
'Estates, at Mattituck. These were to be sent to the Planning
Board and presented to the Mosquito district for inspection.
The
Mr. Charles Rogers of Islip~ Long Island~ along with
FloydKing, Jr..~ and Alden Young~ appeared before the Board
to discuss a proposed subdivision~to be locatedon the
south side Main Road, Orient, New York. This property in
question is presentlyowned by W. Duvall.
MR. R~GERS: ~is a plan (presented map to Board) which
is a tentative proposal and we want to know what you think
of this before we go into further expenses. -We came down
here to see ~hat you would want or what'you would require.
This was theDuvall-property. This map was prepared from an
aerial phOtograph, so that we know that all the lots are on
high ground~ . We have in mind putting in our own private
water'supply to be used for the subdivision. The plots in
this are all .approximately t00feet'by 150 feet, and some
are as large as one-h~lf acre. ~We understand that there
will be no problem with the sewage with the health department,
as long as we subdivide the land.
Southold Town Planning Board -4-
November 9~ 1965
MR. ROGERS: What we are trying to do is bring in three
canals, here~ here, and here~ (Pointed three places on the map).
We have property here ~ointing to map)~ which we arelwilling
to dedicate to the Town. This down here (pointing to map), will
be beach~ and we will discuss whetherrit is to be private or
public beach. There are a couple of low plots~ this is
about the only low spot. ~We intend to keep the contour above
five or six.~eWe intend to use fill here ~ointing to map).
We have a~pretty good idea ofwhat we want to do, we have
gone over it quite a bit. This here ~ointing to map)~ is a
pond that-was used for irringation.
In response to a question a~ed by the Chairman, in regard
to a private water system, Alden Young stated that it would
probably take five wells with 50 gallons of water-in each well
to supply-all the people in the subdivision.
The Chairman stated that he was very much concerned
about cutting in canals where the saltwater-c%uld affect the
fresh water supply. Fir. Rogers, pointing to the map, indicated
where one of the canals would be located. Mr. Grebe Asked if
the water supply would bein-a reservoir. Mr. Alden Young
stated that the water would have to be kept in a~tank which
would hold about 8,000 gallons of water.
MR. MOISA: What does the Health' Department think of
digging these canals ?
~F.~EN YOUNG: These are all 150 foot lots~ and they
require 100 foot lots where there,s a water supply. Mr.
Rogerswent over this with Mr. Villa.
MR. ROGERS: They didn't approve this, but they didn't
indicate .that we would have any trouble,
Mr.~ ~gges~e~ that possibly the ~ise and fall of
the.'tide~ ent troubles with the. water, Mr. Rogers
sta~ed that .if there are adequate cesspools there Shouldn't
be any trouble. He also stated thatthey intended to keep
the level high so that were the wells are it would be
higher ~than sea level.
-Southold Town Planning Board -5-
November 9,
1965
THE CHAIRMAN: I would think that you would have to have
a few less lots.
MR. ROGERS: I think ~if we could keep in this general
way, we will be at-7, we will be taken this level here. We
don"t advocate a bulkhead for the canals. I was talking to
Alvah Goldsmith and he told me that he felt that the canal
shou~ be on a slope, that it~should be on a general slope.
MR. VAN TUY~: Have you taken any test of:the water
conditions yet?
MR. ROGERS: No, I asked Mr. Latham, he said he didn't
know of any clay depgsits.
The Chairman advised Mr.~ Rogers that soil which has
been under salt~ter ofte~ has a different structure, he
stated that it is often like sodium soil. A discussion
was held on the problems of salt in the water. It might
be necessary to put gravel bibs around the cesspools.
Fir. Rogers stated that they are trying not to use~
anything thatis meadow land in the subdivision .
-A discussionwas held on the elevation of the property.
I~was determined that the land would probably be brought
up ~o a seven level. -A brief discussion was held on the
material found in dikes.
THE CHAIRMAN: I would like to say Mr. Rogers, I have
talked to one or two members of the Board and we feel that
this is a ideal farm for growing onions. I am sure the
Planning Board will back me up on this, we are not saying
that this can't be done. You have some very real problems
here. Unless you ~are willing to face them, and spend some
time and money-here, we would tryto discourage you.
MR. ROGERS: Frankly, I appreciate what you are saying.
I think you should discourage people from coming in and
destzoying you farm land. We have tackeled a piece of
property onFire Island, and ,several others onthe south
side. The Construction company we work with has had
experience on the eastern seaboard. We understand that
we might lose money. We have invested more money in this
property than could possibly be obtained for it as a farm.
Somthold Town Planning Board -6-
November 9, 1965
There are manyfine possibilities for this land. I have worked
in this area and, I would like to come down here and do what-I
think iS theright thing. We know What we are up against here.
I think-it will be eight years before we have these plots sold.
It might be ten years or onty five years, We have taken into
consideration the water Plant. -We have calculated itthe best
way we know how. There is only so much water front property,
and it will maintain its value. We do know that we are going into
a situation that is worth a good many.problems. I think the
beautyof the community lies in the development of water front
property.
THE'CHAIRMAN: This we agreewith. We believe in the
development of waterfront property as well as the'~evelopment
of highway f~ontage. We have more waterfront than highway
frontage. There is one other question coming up with the
development of this property. Have you evaluated the-effect
of the' State Park, do you.think this witl~be a detriment to
your development.
Mr. Rogers felt that the S'tate Park-would have no
detrimental Value againsthis property. The Chairman pointed
out the possibility that future property buyers mightnot
lookfavorably upon theState~Park and the possible expansion
of theirlbathing facilities, Mr. Rogers s~ill felt-that the
StatePark would not'be detrimental to his proposed subdivision.
~?.~EN YOUNG: If the developmentof this property is at all
feasible, we will talk with Mr. Villa.
THE CHAIRMAN: I want it clearly ~understood, that per-
sonally I have no objection to this subdivision~ but I do have
many .questions.
.~ARCHIBAI/) YOUNG: Have you taken any thoughts about'the
maintenance of'the canals?
MR. ROGERS: The canal will be deeded to'the Town or'to the
' owners. I don'.t want to be left with the ownership of
It'would be ~learly~understood that.everyone has
a right-of-wa~-across the canals. We would keep theh~anals
open until all the property is sold.
ARCHIR~LD YOUNG: You would have to d~ed the center of the
canals to the people.
MR. ROGERS: Yes.
Southold Town Planning Board -7-
November 9, 1965
ARCHIBALD YOUNG: In~ Southampton Town, any ~ man-made canal
has to be bulkheaded.
MR. ROGERS: Mr. Goldsmith felt~there was a disadvantage
in bulkheading. He felt that it WOuldbe better to follow the
natural~slope. I believe that in the Town that-was his
recommendation. The cost,of bulk~eading isvery.expenSive.
Also, if a small child should fall in the water,~he couldn't
getout if the canal was bulk3~aded. For the average owner,
a small pier is better.
The Chairman pointed out on ~he map-atleasttwo places
where the Town might require waterfrontage andalsostated
that they might require 300 feet in another place~which he
indicated on the map. Mr.~ Rogers felt that~it was be%ter
to give the land in one parcel rather"'than scatter 10Ofoot
parcels of~water frontage.
There was a brief discussion held on density populat~n.
Itwas determined that the way'Mr. Rogers had his subdivision
tayed out he was well below the densitypopulation. It~was
pointed out-that he might have to make the proposed canals
wider and have fewer lots in order tomeet~the elevation.
The Board.generally agreed that'this subdivision will
meet their approval. Mr. Rogers will talk'With'the County
Health Department~ and be in tou~ with thePlanning-Board.
Tuesday, November'23, 1965~ at 8:00 P.M. was the date
set for a meeting'with the'Riverhead Town Plan~ing Board, to
be held in the Town. Office~ Main'Road, Southold~ NewYork.
The recordhereby Shows that-the proposed subdivision
to be named~D~n-Estates~ Section I~ located near Greenport,
has 'been changed tO-Cleaves Point, Section'III~ located near
Greenport, Townof~Southold, Suffolk County~ New York, owned
and developed byDawn Estates Builders~C~rp.
TheDawn Estmtes Builde=$ Corp. need to post a performance
bondfor'the completion of:~roads andwaterm~ins in the subdivision.
They alsO need to present-to the Planning Boarda statement'or
contract'from the Village of Greenport water company-stating
that.they will supply-Cleaves~Point, Section III with water.
Southold Town Planning Board
-8-
November 9~. 1965
On mot&on by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was
RESOLVED that the' Southold Town Planning Board authorize
Mr. Lawrence Tuthill~ P~.E., to make an estimate for the
performance bond for the roads, drainage, and water mains in
the subdivision to be known as-Cleaves Point,-Sec~on III,
located near Greenport, in the Town of~Southold, Suffolk
%?~ounty, New York, and .owned and developed byDawn~ Estates
Builders Co~p.
Vote of the Board: Ayes;-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young.
On motion by Mr. Mo-isa, seconded by Mr. Grebe~ it was
RESOLVED that.the Southold Town Planning Board set 7:30'P.~h,
Wednesday, December 15, 1965~ at-the Town-Office, Main Road,
Southold, New York, as the time and place of'hearing on the
question of approval ofthe following plat:
Plat of property owned by Dawn Estates Builders~Corp.,
entitled Cleaves Point, Section III, at-Greenport~ consisting
of a parcel of land of 12.3 acres, situated near Greenport,
in the Town of'Southold, Suffolk~County, New York, and
bounded and descr~ibed as follows:
Beginning at a point on the westerly line ofla 50 foot
private road known as Maple Lane, 390.88 feet southerly-along
said westerly line from the southerly line of the Main Road,
from said point of beginning running along said westerly line
of Maple Lane, three courses: (1) S. 31' 30' 00" E.-239.80 feet;
thence ~) S. 36~ 30' 00" E.-300.0 feet; thence (3) So 30~ 23'
40" E.-180.24 feet to the northerly line of a proposed 50 foot
highway to be known as "Snug Harbor Road",as Shown on "Map of
Cleaves Point, SeCtion II", filed in the Suffolk-County"Clerk~
Office as Map/$35~l; thence along said northerly-line of"Snug
Harbor Road", S. ~6~ 37' 10" W.-103.40 feet; thence along the
northwesterly line of said ,Snug Harbor Road", S. 19~ 30~ 00"
W.-437.95 feet; thence along the westerly line of said "Snug
Harbor Road", S. 33~ 22' 50" E.-10.69 feet; thence along Lot
36 as shown on said map,-S. 56~ 37~ 10""W.-162.0 feet to
ordinary highwater .mark of Gull Pond; thence along said high
watermark, northerly and then westerly 280 feet more or less
to land of Ruth Preston and Others; thence along said land of
Ruth Preston and Others two courses: (1) N. 21~ 24~ 20" W.-50
feet; thence f~)N. 20~ 50' 10" W.-389~05 feet; thence along
land of Yuma Corp., N. 21: 04' 00" W.-496.27 feet; thence along
South~ld TownPlanning Board
-9-
November 9, 1965
land of'Dawn Estates'Shopping Center.on a line parallel to said
cmsoutherly line of'Main'~Road, and 375'.0 feet southerly therefrom,
N. 66° 39~ 50" E.-505,35~feet to the point'of beginning, corftaining
12.32 acres.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young.
The Planning Board briefly discussed Eastern~Shores at
Greenport and their fullfillment of~the Town requirements.
No further action was taken in this matter.
On motion by Mr. Grebe, Seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was
RESOLVED that the minutes of the Southold Town Planning
Board dated.October 19~ 1965, be approved as submitted.
Vote oft he Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe,
Mr. Young.
Mr. Howard Terry, Building Inspector, reported that the
SOuthold TownBoard has given their final ~pproval to the
amendments to the rules and regulations for the subdivision of
land in the Town of~Southold.
The next-regular meeting of the Southotd Town Planning Board
will be held on December 15, 1965, mt 7:30 P.M$, at the Town
Offic~Main Road, Southold, New York.
~ A joint meeting will be held with the Riverhead Town Planning
Board at 8:00 P.M., on'~es~ay~a November '23, 1965, at the Town
Office, Main Road, Southold, New York.
The meeting was adjourned at-10:15 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Barbara'C.~ Dittmann, Secretary
JOHN WICKHAM, CHAIRMAN