Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-11/09/1965 Southold Town annin rd SDLITHDLD. L. I.,N. Y. PLANNINe BOARD MEMBERS John ~/icl~h~rr, C. helrman Henry Moisa AJfred A~chib~ld Youn$ ~./il li~ m Unlc~lbech MINUTES SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD November 9, 1965 A regular meeting of the'Southold Town Planning Board was held on November 9, 1965, at the Town Office~ Main Road~ Southold, New York, at 7:30 There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry Moisa, Alfred Grebe, Archibald Young. Absent: Mr. William Unkelbach. -(In'Europe on Business) Also present: Messrs: Otto Van Tuylm Consultant; Howard Terry, Building Inspector; AawrenceTuthill, Professional Engineer. Supervisor Albertson presented to the Board an offer of deed and right-of-way to a piece of beach property-~nlEastern Shores at Greenport. Mr. Morgan described the right-of-way as being about 150 feet:off the west line. Mr. Schneider stated that this is to be a continuing or permanent right-of- way, 30 feet wide, subject to adjustment when the final map is made of that parcel as a future section of Eastern Shores at Greenport. Southold Town Planning Board -2- November 9~ 1965 The Chairman testa'ted that the beach area would fullfill the Planning Board's requirements. However~ the highway dedication is another matter. The Chairman stated that the dedication of 300 feet might cover the highway dedication requirements~ however~ this is a matter for the Town Board. The Chairman advised that the Planning Board will not recommend acceptance of highway dedication without~additional ~ater frontage. THECHAIRMAN: We cannot guarantee now that the Town Board will.settle for 300 feet. Many of the members of the Town Board feel that 600 feet to 800 feet should be required. -We have required developers with only 400 feet of waterfront to give 100 feet of this waterfront forthe highway dedication. We have tried to tell you what we th~nk will be to your best advantage and what will be to our advantage. MR. SCHNEIDER:Isn't the~e an advantage to having this -beach next to the Village property? (It was agreed by all that it was probably better to have the beach next to the Village property.) MR. YOUNG: We think putting the required road ends all in one parcel is better than scattered road ends. MR.. SCHNEIDER: We are saving 170 feet~ plus or minus, for our own private owners use. THE C~: The extra 100 feet you will give for access to the Village property is mandatory-to getaccess to the village property. This blue print doesn't show the right-of-way as it is described in the contract document. This is totally wrong. We must have the correct right-of-way on the blue prin~. We are prepared to accept the 200 feet. with correct right-of~wayand not recommend dedication acceptance. I restate, 200 feet just meets the planning Board requirements, but not-the requirements for dedicationsofhighways in any section or'Eastern Shores at Greenport. SUPERVISOR ALBERTSON: I haven't been in on this up to now. We will requiremore than 200 feet for any.dedication of reads. I suggest this matter be re~negoti~d. Southold Town Planning Board -3- November 94 1965 There was a lenghty dls¢~ property values~ r~ght- of-~ay~ amounts of frontage :~ ales, etc~ MR. YUUNG: We can ask for 100 feet by-100 feet for each road , but it is our opinion it is better to. have it in one parcel. I thought we couldnegotiate at this point, but we ma~y have made a mistake. Muchfurther discussion was held on the- ~'~!ties of developing the pond area, town acquistioh~, ~e .r~ads. Also the alternative layouts of the proposed~ ~as discussed. SUPERVISOR Albertson stated that'he would try to call a meeting of the Town'Board this we~ to further discuss this matter with them. The Chairman reminded Mr. Alden Young that thePlanning Board had not yet received the additionalmaps of Mattituck 'Estates, at Mattituck. These were to be sent to the Planning Board and presented to the Mosquito district for inspection. The Mr. Charles Rogers of Islip~ Long Island~ along with FloydKing, Jr..~ and Alden Young~ appeared before the Board to discuss a proposed subdivision~to be locatedon the south side Main Road, Orient, New York. This property in question is presentlyowned by W. Duvall. MR. R~GERS: ~is a plan (presented map to Board) which is a tentative proposal and we want to know what you think of this before we go into further expenses. -We came down here to see ~hat you would want or what'you would require. This was theDuvall-property. This map was prepared from an aerial phOtograph, so that we know that all the lots are on high ground~ . We have in mind putting in our own private water'supply to be used for the subdivision. The plots in this are all .approximately t00feet'by 150 feet, and some are as large as one-h~lf acre. ~We understand that there will be no problem with the sewage with the health department, as long as we subdivide the land. Southold Town Planning Board -4- November 9~ 1965 MR. ROGERS: What we are trying to do is bring in three canals, here~ here, and here~ (Pointed three places on the map). We have property here ~ointing to map)~ which we arelwilling to dedicate to the Town. This down here (pointing to map), will be beach~ and we will discuss whetherrit is to be private or public beach. There are a couple of low plots~ this is about the only low spot. ~We intend to keep the contour above five or six.~eWe intend to use fill here ~ointing to map). We have a~pretty good idea ofwhat we want to do, we have gone over it quite a bit. This here ~ointing to map)~ is a pond that-was used for irringation. In response to a question a~ed by the Chairman, in regard to a private water system, Alden Young stated that it would probably take five wells with 50 gallons of water-in each well to supply-all the people in the subdivision. The Chairman stated that he was very much concerned about cutting in canals where the saltwater-c%uld affect the fresh water supply. Fir. Rogers, pointing to the map, indicated where one of the canals would be located. Mr. Grebe Asked if the water supply would bein-a reservoir. Mr. Alden Young stated that the water would have to be kept in a~tank which would hold about 8,000 gallons of water. MR. MOISA: What does the Health' Department think of digging these canals ? ~F.~EN YOUNG: These are all 150 foot lots~ and they require 100 foot lots where there,s a water supply. Mr. Rogerswent over this with Mr. Villa. MR. ROGERS: They didn't approve this, but they didn't indicate .that we would have any trouble, Mr.~ ~gges~e~ that possibly the ~ise and fall of the.'tide~ ent troubles with the. water, Mr. Rogers sta~ed that .if there are adequate cesspools there Shouldn't be any trouble. He also stated thatthey intended to keep the level high so that were the wells are it would be higher ~than sea level. -Southold Town Planning Board -5- November 9, 1965 THE CHAIRMAN: I would think that you would have to have a few less lots. MR. ROGERS: I think ~if we could keep in this general way, we will be at-7, we will be taken this level here. We don"t advocate a bulkhead for the canals. I was talking to Alvah Goldsmith and he told me that he felt that the canal shou~ be on a slope, that it~should be on a general slope. MR. VAN TUY~: Have you taken any test of:the water conditions yet? MR. ROGERS: No, I asked Mr. Latham, he said he didn't know of any clay depgsits. The Chairman advised Mr.~ Rogers that soil which has been under salt~ter ofte~ has a different structure, he stated that it is often like sodium soil. A discussion was held on the problems of salt in the water. It might be necessary to put gravel bibs around the cesspools. Fir. Rogers stated that they are trying not to use~ anything thatis meadow land in the subdivision . -A discussionwas held on the elevation of the property. I~was determined that the land would probably be brought up ~o a seven level. -A brief discussion was held on the material found in dikes. THE CHAIRMAN: I would like to say Mr. Rogers, I have talked to one or two members of the Board and we feel that this is a ideal farm for growing onions. I am sure the Planning Board will back me up on this, we are not saying that this can't be done. You have some very real problems here. Unless you ~are willing to face them, and spend some time and money-here, we would tryto discourage you. MR. ROGERS: Frankly, I appreciate what you are saying. I think you should discourage people from coming in and destzoying you farm land. We have tackeled a piece of property onFire Island, and ,several others onthe south side. The Construction company we work with has had experience on the eastern seaboard. We understand that we might lose money. We have invested more money in this property than could possibly be obtained for it as a farm. Somthold Town Planning Board -6- November 9, 1965 There are manyfine possibilities for this land. I have worked in this area and, I would like to come down here and do what-I think iS theright thing. We know What we are up against here. I think-it will be eight years before we have these plots sold. It might be ten years or onty five years, We have taken into consideration the water Plant. -We have calculated itthe best way we know how. There is only so much water front property, and it will maintain its value. We do know that we are going into a situation that is worth a good many.problems. I think the beautyof the community lies in the development of water front property. THE'CHAIRMAN: This we agreewith. We believe in the development of waterfront property as well as the'~evelopment of highway f~ontage. We have more waterfront than highway frontage. There is one other question coming up with the development of this property. Have you evaluated the-effect of the' State Park, do you.think this witl~be a detriment to your development. Mr. Rogers felt that the S'tate Park-would have no detrimental Value againsthis property. The Chairman pointed out the possibility that future property buyers mightnot lookfavorably upon theState~Park and the possible expansion of theirlbathing facilities, Mr. Rogers s~ill felt-that the StatePark would not'be detrimental to his proposed subdivision. ~?.~EN YOUNG: If the developmentof this property is at all feasible, we will talk with Mr. Villa. THE CHAIRMAN: I want it clearly ~understood, that per- sonally I have no objection to this subdivision~ but I do have many .questions. .~ARCHIBAI/) YOUNG: Have you taken any thoughts about'the maintenance of'the canals? MR. ROGERS: The canal will be deeded to'the Town or'to the ' owners. I don'.t want to be left with the ownership of It'would be ~learly~understood that.everyone has a right-of-wa~-across the canals. We would keep theh~anals open until all the property is sold. ARCHIR~LD YOUNG: You would have to d~ed the center of the canals to the people. MR. ROGERS: Yes. Southold Town Planning Board -7- November 9, 1965 ARCHIBALD YOUNG: In~ Southampton Town, any ~ man-made canal has to be bulkheaded. MR. ROGERS: Mr. Goldsmith felt~there was a disadvantage in bulkheading. He felt that it WOuldbe better to follow the natural~slope. I believe that in the Town that-was his recommendation. The cost,of bulk~eading isvery.expenSive. Also, if a small child should fall in the water,~he couldn't getout if the canal was bulk3~aded. For the average owner, a small pier is better. The Chairman pointed out on ~he map-atleasttwo places where the Town might require waterfrontage andalsostated that they might require 300 feet in another place~which he indicated on the map. Mr.~ Rogers felt that~it was be%ter to give the land in one parcel rather"'than scatter 10Ofoot parcels of~water frontage. There was a brief discussion held on density populat~n. Itwas determined that the way'Mr. Rogers had his subdivision tayed out he was well below the densitypopulation. It~was pointed out-that he might have to make the proposed canals wider and have fewer lots in order tomeet~the elevation. The Board.generally agreed that'this subdivision will meet their approval. Mr. Rogers will talk'With'the County Health Department~ and be in tou~ with thePlanning-Board. Tuesday, November'23, 1965~ at 8:00 P.M. was the date set for a meeting'with the'Riverhead Town Plan~ing Board, to be held in the Town. Office~ Main'Road, Southold~ NewYork. The recordhereby Shows that-the proposed subdivision to be named~D~n-Estates~ Section I~ located near Greenport, has 'been changed tO-Cleaves Point, Section'III~ located near Greenport, Townof~Southold, Suffolk County~ New York, owned and developed byDawn Estates Builders~C~rp. TheDawn Estmtes Builde=$ Corp. need to post a performance bondfor'the completion of:~roads andwaterm~ins in the subdivision. They alsO need to present-to the Planning Boarda statement'or contract'from the Village of Greenport water company-stating that.they will supply-Cleaves~Point, Section III with water. Southold Town Planning Board -8- November 9~. 1965 On mot&on by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was RESOLVED that the' Southold Town Planning Board authorize Mr. Lawrence Tuthill~ P~.E., to make an estimate for the performance bond for the roads, drainage, and water mains in the subdivision to be known as-Cleaves Point,-Sec~on III, located near Greenport, in the Town of~Southold, Suffolk %?~ounty, New York, and .owned and developed byDawn~ Estates Builders Co~p. Vote of the Board: Ayes;-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe, Mr. Young. On motion by Mr. Mo-isa, seconded by Mr. Grebe~ it was RESOLVED that.the Southold Town Planning Board set 7:30'P.~h, Wednesday, December 15, 1965~ at-the Town-Office, Main Road, Southold, New York, as the time and place of'hearing on the question of approval ofthe following plat: Plat of property owned by Dawn Estates Builders~Corp., entitled Cleaves Point, Section III, at-Greenport~ consisting of a parcel of land of 12.3 acres, situated near Greenport, in the Town of'Southold, Suffolk~County, New York, and bounded and descr~ibed as follows: Beginning at a point on the westerly line ofla 50 foot private road known as Maple Lane, 390.88 feet southerly-along said westerly line from the southerly line of the Main Road, from said point of beginning running along said westerly line of Maple Lane, three courses: (1) S. 31' 30' 00" E.-239.80 feet; thence ~) S. 36~ 30' 00" E.-300.0 feet; thence (3) So 30~ 23' 40" E.-180.24 feet to the northerly line of a proposed 50 foot highway to be known as "Snug Harbor Road",as Shown on "Map of Cleaves Point, SeCtion II", filed in the Suffolk-County"Clerk~ Office as Map/$35~l; thence along said northerly-line of"Snug Harbor Road", S. ~6~ 37' 10" W.-103.40 feet; thence along the northwesterly line of said ,Snug Harbor Road", S. 19~ 30~ 00" W.-437.95 feet; thence along the westerly line of said "Snug Harbor Road", S. 33~ 22' 50" E.-10.69 feet; thence along Lot 36 as shown on said map,-S. 56~ 37~ 10""W.-162.0 feet to ordinary highwater .mark of Gull Pond; thence along said high watermark, northerly and then westerly 280 feet more or less to land of Ruth Preston and Others; thence along said land of Ruth Preston and Others two courses: (1) N. 21~ 24~ 20" W.-50 feet; thence f~)N. 20~ 50' 10" W.-389~05 feet; thence along land of Yuma Corp., N. 21: 04' 00" W.-496.27 feet; thence along South~ld TownPlanning Board -9- November 9, 1965 land of'Dawn Estates'Shopping Center.on a line parallel to said cmsoutherly line of'Main'~Road, and 375'.0 feet southerly therefrom, N. 66° 39~ 50" E.-505,35~feet to the point'of beginning, corftaining 12.32 acres. Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe, Mr. Young. The Planning Board briefly discussed Eastern~Shores at Greenport and their fullfillment of~the Town requirements. No further action was taken in this matter. On motion by Mr. Grebe, Seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was RESOLVED that the minutes of the Southold Town Planning Board dated.October 19~ 1965, be approved as submitted. Vote oft he Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Grebe, Mr. Young. Mr. Howard Terry, Building Inspector, reported that the SOuthold TownBoard has given their final ~pproval to the amendments to the rules and regulations for the subdivision of land in the Town of~Southold. The next-regular meeting of the Southotd Town Planning Board will be held on December 15, 1965, mt 7:30 P.M$, at the Town Offic~Main Road, Southold, New York. ~ A joint meeting will be held with the Riverhead Town Planning Board at 8:00 P.M., on'~es~ay~a November '23, 1965, at the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York. The meeting was adjourned at-10:15 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Barbara'C.~ Dittmann, Secretary JOHN WICKHAM, CHAIRMAN