HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-12/15/1965Soul_hold Town Planning Board
SOUTHOLD, L. 1., N. Y.
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John ~Y/ic~ham, Chairman
Henry Moisa
Alfred Grebe
Archibald Young
~Y/itlio m Un~elbach
MINUTE'S
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
December 15, 1965
A regular meeting of the SOuthold Town Planning Board
was held at 7:30 P.M., Wednesday, December 15, 1965, at the
Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York.
There Were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman, Henry
Moisa, Archibald Young.
Absent: Mr.. William Unkelbach and Mr. Alfred Grebe. (weather
did not permit flying from Fishers I~land.)
Also present: Otto Van Tuyl, Consultant; Howard Terry,
Building Inspector; Lawrence Tuthill,'P~fessional Engineer.
THE CHAIRMAN: I will open the hearing on Cleaves Point,
Section III, by reading the legal notice.
"NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant-to Section 276 of
the Town Law public hearing will be held by the Southold Town
Planning Board at the Town Office~ Main Road, Southold, New
York, in said Town on the 15th day of December, 1965, at'7:30
o'clock in the evening of said day on the question of approval
of the following plat:
"Plat of property owned by Dawn Estates Builders Corp.,
entitled.Cleaves Point, Section III~ at Greenport, consisting
of a parcel of land 12.32 acres~ situated near Greenport, in
in the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York, and bounded
and described as follows:
Southold Town Planning Board
-2-
December 15, 1965
"Beginning at a point on the westerly line of a 50 fOot
private road known as Maple Lane, 390.88 feet southerly along
said westerly line from the southerlyline of the Main Road,
from said point of beginning running along said westerly line
of Maple Lane, three courses: (1) S. 31' 30; 00" E. 239.80
feet; thence (2) S. 36° 30' 00" E.-300.0 feet; thence (3)
S. 30° 23' 40" E.-180.24 feet to the northerly line of a
proposed 50 foot highway to be known as "Snug Harbor'Road",
as shown on "Map of Cleaves Point, Section II", filed in the
Suffolk County'Cl~s Office as Map $3521; thence along said
northerly line of:"Snug Harbor Road"~ S. 56° 37~' 10" W.-103.40
feet; thence along.the northwesterly line of said "Snug Harbor
Road"#~S. 19° 30~ 00" W.-437.95 feet; thence along 'the westerly
line of said "Snug Harbor Road", S. 33' 22' 50" E.-10.69 feet;
thence along Lot 36 as shown on said map~ S. 56' 37~' 10" W.-
162.0 feet to ordinary highwater mark of Gull Pond; thence
along said high water mark, northerly and then westerly 280
feet mo~or less to land of Ruth Preston and others; thence
along said land of Ruth Preston and others, two courses:
(1) N. 21~ 24' 20" W.-50 feet; thence (2) N. 20+ 50· 10"
W.--289.0~~ feet; thence along land of Yuma Corp/, N.-21° 04·
00" W.-496o27 feet; thence along land of Dawn Estates Shopping
Center on a line parallel to said southerly line of the Main
Road, and 375.0 feet southerly therefrom, N. 66' 39~ 50" E.-
505.35 feet to the point of beginning.
"a~yl~e~son desiring to be heard on the proposedsubdivision
should appearlat the time and place above specified.
"DATED: November 9, 1965, Byorderlof the Southold,.Town
PlanningBoard~ John Wickham, Chairman."
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Van Tuyl, I heard you say that we don't
have the final maps here~ however, I see no reason why we can't
run through the hearing. If everything is in order-we can recess
the hearing until we get the maps.
I have a letter here from the Superintendent-or'Highways
approving the layout of the roads in the subdivision.
(Chairman read the following letter):
"THe Planning Board, Town of~ Southold, Southold~ New York
"Gentlemen: I have inspected the map and approve the
lay-oUtof the proposed roa~s at C~AVES POINT, Sec. 3,.
Greenport, New York.
December 15~. 1965
$outhold Town Planning Board --3-
"Very truly yours~ /s/ Harold D. Price~. Sup't of Highways."
THE~CHAIRMAN: It is our understanding that you are going
to have city water.
MR. KAPLAN: We have a letter.
Chairman read the following
"Dawn~EstatesBuilders Corp., East Marion,. New York.
"Gentlemen: Please be advised t hat the Village intends to
supply municipal waterto your proposed development east~of
the Village at East Marion~ New York~ in'accordance With its
usual terms and conditions.
"Very truly yours~. /s/ Stanley'S. Corwin~ VillageAttorney".
The above letter was placed on file.
THE'CHAIRMAN: Now, there is one other thing we are
concerned with and that is the parkand playground area.
MR.' KAPLAN: We have spoke about that.
~The~Chairman requested the secretary to '~ad in previous
minutes the discussion of the park-and playground requirments
for'Cleaves Point.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Meanwhile~ we will continue with the hearing
byasking anyone in opposition to this subdivision to speak'at
this ~ime.
LESTER~SPL~PRIO: (~I represent the'Cleaves"Point Property
O~ners association. · We ask"that certain restrictions go-alOng
with th-is subdivision. We have just~invested $2~000.00 in
the roads and-another $500.00 to maintain them. Ibelieve that
the previous owner was under obligation to maintain these roads
and I wonder if'the newowner is not also obligated to maintain
them. We'are interested in keeping'Osprey Nest Road private as
it is in the presentsubdivision.
Southold Town Planning Board ,~-
December 15~, 1965
THE'CPL~IRMAN: Pleasg bear in mind that I am not an
attorney and neither can advise you or tell you anything at
this time without talking to legalcouncil. What exactly
can be done about these ~oads I d~'~ot know at this time.
one thing we can do, which is sometimes very effective~ is
ask 'the building inspector to inspect 'the roads. If he finds
that the roads are in bad condition~ we can say that-no
building permits will be issued .in that section until some-
thing is done with the roads. This can be quite effective
if there are very few homes built.
MR.~ EAPLAN: Dr. Shaprio, you said you'represent the
Cleaves Point-Civic Association in this matter. Did you
have a meeting on this matter.·
MR. SHAPRIO: The Board of'Directors, which I am a
member of~ had a meeting.
MR.' BL~P~: I am a member of 'the association and I have
no knowledge ofthis. I think he is unauthorized to speak
for the association on this particular matter.
MR.' SHAPRIO: The Board of Trustees have the power'to act
for the association between the regular meetins.
One other point I lave here, the property of Dawn'Estates
Shopping'Centerwas put f~p for a change of zone. Some 200
residents 'of this area came forth to oppose this change of
zone, through petitions and so forth. This Property is
right on the road and probably will be up .for'a change of zone
again. If the Board grants this subdivision, could they
put conditions on it so that the adjoining propertywould
not be down zoned to business at some future date?
THE~C"~HAIRMAN: You will have to keep iX'mind that the
Planning Board does not have any say in change of zone
applications. We c~n only recommend~ and say that when
the time comes for this particular peice of property to
be changed to business~ that you appear and persumably you
will' have some influence. Howevers this is not pertine~t
to this hearing.
(An adjoining property owner stated that she had not
heard of the petition to change the zone on the property
just discussed. However, this is not pertinent to the
hearing.)
S~uthold Town Planning B~rd
December 15z 1965
MR.. SHAPRIO: Having to do more directly with this hearing~
I am concerned with this lagoon that_w~ill be created. I wonder
if this will not effect Gull Pond and if it could take all
the boat traffic that probably will come.
THE CHAIRMAN: The Planning Board does not have jurisdiction
over established waterways. We have taken recent steps on
this matter. Waterways that are to be constructed in the
future must meet our'approvalw but we obviously can't make
this retrospective and retroactive. There are some 200
miles ofwaterfront in the Townof Southold. We would be
taken on an impossible job. The Town Trustees have
jurisdiction over all waterways. You may be interested to
know that we have insisted on arrangements for this lagoon
that is to be constructed. However~ this doesn't have any
bearing on the inlet to gull Fond.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor
of thissubdivision?
W
MR. KAPLAN: I would like to anser any possible questions
that~Dr. Shaprio might have. Dr. Shaprio speaks strictly on
his own. There wasn~teven a meeting of the Board of Trustees.
I belong to the Cleave PointAssociation and it was agreed
that we would all participate and contribute and share in the
maintenance of the roads. It was all passed to give out to
a local contractor. Legally ~e have inherited nothing.
THE CHAIRMAN: l~ay I say that your position in theeyes
of thePlanning Board is not-very good. We had lenghty
discussion with the previous owner and developer to be sure
that there would be some protection made available so that
this could be dedicated to the Town. We have even a letter
of intent from him~ which he obviously neglected to give
to yOU.
MRj KAPLAN: The previous ownerhad passed away when we
took over.
~A question was raised about the rights ,given to the
people in the previously established sections of Cleaves
Point. Mr. Kaplan stated that the rights that were given
with the property previously can not be taken away. This
would include the beach rights.)
Southold Town Planning Boa~ --6-
December 15, 1965
THE CHAIRMAN: Do any members of the Board wish to
say anything.~
MR. YOUNG: It seems to me as a Planning Board we have
to ~ke death into,consideration. We have to look out for
the interest of the people in Southold Town~ if not, there
will be no beach property for these people to use. We try
to do everything that we can to simplify problems that~might
arise in the future. I was born on a farm down here.
know this property pretty welt. Talking personally~ It is
my opinion to try to preserve the area as m~h as we can.
We try not to make too many mistakes. I amnot critizing
anyone~ I am sitting here as a member of the Planning Board.
I think that everything should be cleared up now and
everything we say should show in our records.
MR. MOISA: I think Mr. Young has stated everything,
think everything should be taken into consideration.
THE CHAIRMAN: If no one else wishes to be heard on this
subdivision, I'will declare the hearing recessed until the
estimate for the performance bond for' the roads and watermains
is submitted and the Town Board accepts the sufficiency of
said bond~ and until the final maps are presented tothe
Planning Board.
THE CHAIRMAN: Now~ about~, this park and playground,area.
We will require a committment on your part that a section of
this beach will be guaranteed.
MR. KAPLAN: It can be worked out with council.
THE CHAIRMAN: We are g~ing to insist on it before we file
the map. Do you want me to discuss it with council or would
you rather Go it.
MR. KAPLAN: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: I woullsuggest that you would use this beach
front as a matter of insurance for dedication.
~4R. F~PLAN: I don~t think the rest of the residents would
like it. They don~t want other people in there.
THE CHAIRMAN: This happens time and again, People buy
homes in the country~ want roads private and the area
isolated. In time~ maintenance of the highways and snow
removal become more and more important to them. That is
'Southo%d ~cwn Planning Board -7- December 1541965
why we are so insistant that there is an area in this for
park and playground area for dedication when the time comes.
If these roads were dedicated to the Town it would relieve
the property owners of the maintenance ofthem for all the
years to come.
MR. SHAPRIO:
THE CHAIRMAN:
that these roads be
beach front is nece;
the experience we
roads made public.
MR. KAPLAN: I
over to the Town.
could be turnedove
present highway ape
and we would have t¢
expensive. Our ass¢
roads in shape withe
dow~ trees. There is
Highways can waive ¢
won~'t be reasonable
THE CHAIRMAN:
Town. We want to be
for dedication to ma
to have the roads de
MR. KAPLAN: The
eat it too.
THE'
.e property owners don~t want the roads.
he property owners association could request
dedicaeed to the Towns and we insist that
sary for dedication. Again~ based on
me had~ it would be better to have these
ave made attempts of turning the roads
met with Harold Price. Before the roads
they would need to meet with the
ifications. They would need to be regraded
take out many trees. Itwould be too
ciation would be very happy to put the
ut the necessity of regrading and cutting
a provision that the Superintendent of
ertain requirements. Mr. Pr/ce just
e have never~been able to speak for the
sure that we fullfill all the requirements
ke it possible for-youror the residents
dicated.
p$operty owners want their cake and
ay I say that this is a problem the
Planning BOa~d'has faced Year'after year. It has been our
decision to twist people~Sa~mswhenever possd~le. Another
thing~ the size or'the waterfront area has something to do
with dedication in the eyes of the Town Board.
The'Chairman and Mr. Kaplan further discussed the park
and. playground requirements. Mr. Kaplan assured the Chairman
that it would be taken ca~e of.
Southold Town Planning Board -8--
December 15~ 1965
Mr. Harold Reese appeared before the Board to discuss
the proposed subdivision, Harbor~Lights-Estates~ Section II.
He also wanted to discuss the beach rights in regard to the
subdivision. He presented the Board a letter'written by his
attorney in regard to the beach rights already given to the
people in the subdivision. Mr. Reese stated that he had
already talked to some of the people who have already bought
lots and they were not at all in favor of giving up any of
their beach rights.
The Board and Mr. Reese discussed the dedication of roads
in relation to giving some waterfront to the Town for the
dedication of the roads. The'Chairman said that he would
answer the letter from Mr. Reese's attorney if this was
agreeable withMr. Reese. Mr" Reese agreed.
Mr. Reese pointed out the proposed park and playground
area on the map of Harbor~Lights Estates. ~ After further
discussion on this proposed subdivision no further'action
was taken.
F~r. Sturn and Mr. Morgan appeared before the Board to
seek preliminary approval ofEaste~Shores at Greenport,
Section 1-g. This section will contain 17 lotsand have
city water. Mr. Van Tuyl presented the preliminary maps
of Section IV.
The'~hairman read the agreement with Eastern Shores, Inc.
forthe i~surance of a park and playground area. The copy
of the agreement in the file was an old copy, Mr. Sturn
presented the revised copy of the agreement for the park and
playground area. The'Chairman stated that he had been
authorized to sign the agreement and he had done so.
~The~Chairman stated that everything seemed to be in order
to grant'EasternShores~ Section IV preliminary-approval.
On motion by Mr~ Young~ seconded by Mr. Moisaa it was
RESOLVED that the subdivision to be known asEastern
Shores at Greenport~ Section IV, located on the NOrth Road,
Greenport~ New York, be granted preliminary approval. This
is owned and de~eloped by H.'J.~S. Land and Development~Corp.
Preliminary map by'Otto Van Tuyl &-Son, dated-September 15,1965.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham~ Mr. Moisa~ Mr. Young
Sou~hold Town Planning Board
'9-
December 15~ 1965
William-Wickham~ Esq.'appeared before the Board to discuss
the property of Margaret V. Braatz~ in regard to a subdivision
to be known as "Vanston Park,"
Fir. Wickhamwahted to discuss the boat and bathing situation.
Mr. Wickham~'s idea was 'to put smalls lips out .for each resident.
Howard Terryadvised that there couldn't be alot of privately
owned~sli~s. -Mr, Wickham stated thatall the slips would be
owned bythe association and each owner~would have use of
a slip.
THE CHAIRMAN: It is my understanding that you brought this
infor our approval with .four interior lots. If this meets
with the approval of this Board you wo~{ have to bring it
back-again. You will have to go to the Board of Appeals to
get approval of access. You will have to make it clear to them
that these moorings would be owned by the association or
proprietor.
Mr. Wickham Stated he was in no hurry for'this to be
passed. After discussion no further action was t~ken in
this matter.
William-Wickham, Esq. appeared before the Board in regard
to a piece of property owned byPeter Harvey bury'Estate located
on the corner of'Westphalia Avenue and Middle Road CC.R, 27)~
Mattituck~ New York, This parcel of land in question contains
3.33 acres. Mr. Wickham is interested in having this parcel
of land changed to business to be used as a gasoline station
and general business. The Chairman advisedMr. Wickham that
the PlanningBoard would investigate this matter.
'Essm. ~
William'Wickham/~peared before the Board in regard to
the application of'Martin C. Nelsen, '257 River Road~ Smithtown~
New~York~ for a change of'zone from "A" Residential and
Agricultural District to "B~2" Business!District on certain
real property located at Greenport~ in the Town of Southold,
Suffolk~County~ New York~ andmore particularly bounded and
described as follows:
Southold. Town Planning Beard
-10-
December 15~ 1965
BEGINNING at the intersection of the southerly line of Middle
Road~ with the easterlyline of Moores Lane, from said point
of beginning running along said southerly line of Middle Road~
three courses: ~1) N. 66' 09~ 10" E.-- 96.51 feet; thence
~) N. 69~ 02' 10" E.-- 985.10 feet; thence ~3) N. 71: 28~ 20"
E.- 312.64 feet; thence S. 16~ 01~ ~0'' E.-- 600.0 feet; thence
S. 69' 20~' 30" W.- 138i~$1 feet to said easterly line Of
Moores Lane; thence along said easterly line~ N~ 17° 15~' 00"
W.-- 600.0 feet to the point of beginning,~containing 19,303 acres.
This change of zone had been favorably recommended to the
Town Board by the Planning Board.
Mr. Wickhamadvised the Planning Board that this application
would be withdrawn. He stated that his client did not have
sufficient finances to carry out his planS at the present time
or in the very near future and Mr. Wickham did not feel that
he could represent the client knowing that it would be some time
before his plans would becomea reality. The Chairman advised
Mr. Wickhamthat there was a great deal of opposition to this
changeof zone. Mr. Wickham stated that he was aware of
this~however, this was not the reason the application is
being withdrawr~
The planning Board received from the Town Board the
original petition of George A. Barzac~ Jr.~ relative to a
change or'zone from "A" Res~ential and Agricultural District
to "B" BusinessDistrict on certain real propertylocated
at~Southold, in the Town of Southold~SuffOlk~County, New ~
York~ with instructions.to prepare an~ official report
describing the conditions therein. This change of zone
is requested for the maintenance of a heauty parlor.
The propertyin question is bounded and described as follows:
All that ~ract or parcel ofland, situate~ lying and
being in Southold, in the Town of Southold~-County of Suffolk,
and State of New ¥ork~ bounded north by other land of George
A. Barzac, Jr.~ 200 feet; east by other land of George A.
Barzac, Jr.~ 160-feet, south by land of J~H. Cassidy 200 feet;
and west by Boisseau'Avenue, 160 feet.
On motion by Mr. Moisa~ seconded by Mr. Young~ it was
Southold Town Planning Board --11--
December 15~ 1965
RESOLVED that the Seuthold Town Planning Board unfavorably
recommends to the Southold Town Board the change of zone from
,A" Residential and Agricultural District to ,B" Business
District on the property of George Ao Barzac, Jr. as described
abOveo~
The Board feels that the type of business the applicant
proposed would be unsatisfactoryin this particula~neighborhood,
due~ to the use of the adjoining property which is a potato
grading station. The potato grading stating, the noises dust,
dirt, and trailer trucks backing in and out all contribute to
making this an unsatisfactorylocation for the type of-business
proposed.
Vote .of the Board: Ayes:--'Mr. Wickham~ Mr. Moisa, Mr. Younge
The Planning Board received from the Town Board the
original petition of Harold E. Tuthill, relative to a change
of zone from~"A" Residential and Agricultural District to
"B" Business District on certain real property located at
Southold, in the Town of Southold, Suffolk'County, New York,
with instructions to prepare ano official report describing
the conditions therein. This change of zone is requested
for use of the property as a real estate office and contractin~g
business. This*property in question is bounded and described
as follows:
BEGINNING at a point'on the curved SlQUtherlyline of
Middle Road at thenortheasterly corner~of land Of~George Braun
and the northwesterly corner or'premises herein described;
running thence~easterly alonglsaid southerly line of-MiddleRoad
on a curve to the left'having, a radius of 2325.'01 feet, a
distance of 325.08 feet; running thenc~ of
Harold E. Tuthillt south 8 :onds
east a distance of.263.42 feet to land of Bu~i~ runnin~ thence
along saidlland of Bucci, Sou~ 81 degr~s 16 minutes 50
seconds west ~a distance of 300 lest to said ~land of-George
Braun; running thence along said land of Braun, North 8
degrees 57~minutes 30 seconds west a distance of~137.59 fe~t
to the point or p!ace~ofbeginning. Said premises containing
one and one-third acres, be the samemore or less.
December 15~ 1965
Southold Town Planning Board -12-
On motion by Mr. Young, seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was
RESOLVED that the'Southold TownPlanning Board
favorably recommend to the~Southold TownBoard the change of
zone from "A" Residential and Agricultural District to
"B" Business Districton the property of Harold E. Tut_hill as
described above.
The Planning Board points out at this time that the County
highway will probably be widened on this dside of the high-
way, which may present some problems.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:--Mr. Wickham, Mr. Moisa, Mr. Yousg
On motion by Mr. Young~ seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was
RESOLVED that the nuinutes oft he Southold Town Planning
Board dated November 9~ 1965~ be approved as submitted.
Vote of the Board: Ayes:- Mr. Wickham~ Mr. Moisa~ Mr. Young
On motion by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Young~ it was
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board recommend
to the Southold Town Board an estimated performance bond of
$19,000.00 for the completion of the roads and water mains in
the subdivision to be known as "Cleaves Point,-Section III",
located at greenport and owned and developed byDawn'Estates
Builders~Co~
Vote of the Board: Ayes:-Mr. Wickham~ Mr. Moisa, Mr. Young
The Board again held a brief discussion on the dedication
of waterfront at Harbor'Lights Estates~ Bayview~ Southold~
owned and developed by Harold Reese.
The next meeting of the Planning Board will be held jointly
with other boards of theVillage and Town in regard to the Master
Plan. This meeting will be held at the'Supervisor~'s Office, 16
South Street~ Greenport~ New York~ On January 12, 1966.
Meeting adjourned at 10:30 P.M.
Respectfully submitted~
garbara C.. Dittmann, Secretary
JOHN WICKHAM, CHAIRMAN