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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-07/07/1975Southold Town Planmng Board SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y. 11971 TELEPHONE 765-1313 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS John Wickham, Chairman Henry Molsa Alfred Grebe Henry Raynor Frank Coyle M I N U T E S Southold Town Planning Board July 7, 1975 A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was held July 7, 1975 at 7:30 p.m. Present were Chairman John Wickham, Vice-Chairman Henry Moisa, Henry Raynor and Frank S. Coyle. Mr. Alfred Grebe was unable to be present because of the possibility of inclement weather. Eli~ah's Lane Estates, Section 2. The Chairman opened the hearing on the final map of the subdivision known as "Elijah's Lane Estates, Section 2" at 7:30 p.m. Mr. Henry Moisa read the Notice of Hearing. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant to Section 276 of the Town Law, Public Hearings will be held by the Southold Town Planning Board at the Town Clerk's Office, Main Road, Southold, New York, in said town on the 7th day of July, 1975 on the question~of the following: 7:30 p.m. Approval of the final map of subdivision known as "Elijah's Lane Estates, Section 2" owned by Joseph Saland, situated at Mattituck in the Town of Southold, County of Suffolk and State of New York, and bounded and described as follows: BEGINNING at a point on the northerly line of Rachael's Road, which point is the following courses and distances from the northeasterly terminus of an arc of a curve connecting the northerly line of Rachael's Road with the westerly line of Elijah's Lane: (1) on a curve to the right with a radius of 25.00 feet for a distance of 39.27 feet; (2) South 51° 21' 10" West 244.62 feet, and running thence from said point of beginning South 51° 21' 10" West along the northerly line of Rachael's Road 75.38 feet to a point; thence South 38° 38' 50" East along the westerly terminus of Rachael's Road 50.00 feet to a point in the northerly line of a portion of ladd shown and designated on a realty subdivision map entitled "Elijah's Lane Estates, Section l" filed in the office of the Clerk of Suffolk County as file number 6065; thence westerly, north- westerly and again westerly along a portion of land in the said realty subdivision entitled "Elijah's Lane Estates, Planning Boaz -2- ~ly 7, 1975 Section l" the following courses and distances: (1) South 51° 21' 10" West 169.19 feet; (2) on a curve to the right.with a radius of 75.00 feet for a distance of 92.32 feet; (3) South 51° 21' 10" West 276.57 feet to a point in the easterly line of land of Agnes Grabowski; thence northerly along the land of Agnes Grabowski the following courses and distances: (1) North 38° 30' 50" West 197.78 feet; (2) North 36° 32' 50" West 162.95 feet; (3) North 37° 36' 50" West 297.63 feet; (4) North 37° 02' 50" West 566.37 feet; (5) North 38° 31' 50" West 180.63 feet to a point in the southerly line of land of Elijah's Lane Estates; thence easterly, northerly, again easterly, n~rthwesterly, again northerly and again easterly along the laud of Elijah's Lane Estates the following courses and distances: (1) North 520 19' 20" East 267.60 feet; (2) North 37° 40' 40" West 54.54 feet; (3) North 51° 21' 10" East 75.42 feet; (4) on a curve to the right with a radius of 25.00 feet for a distance of 39.69 feet; (5) on a curve to the left with a radius of 1957.49 feet for a distance of 139.94 feet; (6) North 52° 19' 20" East 258.89 feet to a point in the easterly line of a portion of land in the aforesaid realty subdivision entitled "Elijah's Lane Estates, Section l"; thence South 38° 14' 50" East along the said easterly line o£ a portion of land in the said realty subdivision entitled "Elijah's Lane Estates, Section l" 1615.93 feet to the point or place of beginning. Containing 20.3 acres more or less. Mr. Moisa presented affidavit of publication of the Suffolk Weekly Times properly notarized. Chairman: We have here the final map signed by the Department of Environmental Control and the County Board of Health. The following letter under date of Jmme 19, 1975 addressed to Mr. Joseph Saland was read: Dear Mr. Saland: A hearing was held on the preliminary map for the above- captioned subdivision on September 16, 1974. A resolution was passed on October 28, 1974 approving the preliminary map subject to the condition that additional catch basins be placed on both sides of the road at station 23 + O0 of Jeremiah's Lane, approval of the Highway Superintendent and Highway Department and the recharge basin ~n Section I be completed or at least well under construction before any lots can be sold in Section 2. This matter has by resolution been set for a public hearing on the final map which will be held on July 7, 1975. Southold Town Planning Board The following letter under date of April 10, 1975 to the Planning Board was read: Planning Boar -3- ~'uly 7, 1975 Gentlemen: Mr. Lawrence Tuthill and I approve of the additional drain- age of the catch basins connected to the recharge basin. /s/ Raymond C. Dean Sup't of Highways The following letter under date of April 8, 1975 to the Superintendent of Highways was read: Dear Mr. Dean: I have received the final maps of the above-captioned subdivision which will be officially presented to the Southold Town Planning Board at their next regular meeting to be held April 21, 1975. Within thirty days after that date, I will need your report. The preliminary map of this subdivision was approved subject to the condition that additional catch basins be placed on both sides of the road at Station 23 * O0 of Jeremiah's Lane and the recharge basin in Section One be completed or at least well under construction before auy lots can be sold in Section 2. I sent it to the Suffolk County Planning Commission and they had no objection to the map. Southold Town Planning Board A similar letter was sent to Lawrence M. Tuthill, P.E. The following letter dated December 3, 1974 to the Southold Town Planning Board was read: Dear Mr. Wickham: In accordance with your request, the staff of the Planning Department has considered the above captioned proposed subdivision. Since the basic pattern of the map has been set by the parcel's configuration and Section One, the staff has no comment to make regarding Section 2. Staff comments on~a preliminary map do not constitute a review. When this map is in the final stage of preparation, it should be referred to the Suffolk County Planning Commission for review pursuant to Section 1333 of the Suffolk County Charter. Since Southold is faced with a potential problem, as several other towns are, resulting from the colonial division of land into long lots which can force land subdivision in bowling alley or grid-iron street patterns, you may be interested in Planning Boa~ -4- ~ly 7, 1975 the enclosed material. While offering a solution, it too not without its problems. However, it does present an approach that may be helpful if modified. is ~s/ Charles G. Lind Subdivision Review Section It was noted by the Chairman that updates are needed on the approval of the Health Department and Environmental Control of the County of Suffolk. Chairman: At this time, I will open the hearing for anyone who is opposed to this subdivision entitled" Elijah's Lane Estates, Section 2". Hearing none, I will ask for those that wish to speak in favor of it. Joseph Saland: I think it is a nice subdivision. There are no two houses alike. There is no one after another ranch. We are trying to do the nicest job we can and trying to comply with the regulations and we will continue to do the same. Chairman: For the record, what is the condition of the recharge basin? Mr. Saland: We are starting to get bids on it. We will do work on it before we start to sell any lots. We would like as much as possible to do the recharge basin and the roads at the same time. We will before we come in to sell any lots or before you sign the plan, we will have started on the recharge basin and possibly finished it. We have estimates from a couple of contractors and will seriously go out now for estimates. Mr. Ray-nor: You will need updates. Mr. Saland: When you send this to the County for approval, does that have to have an update? Chairman: No. Anyunfinished details will have to be made conditions of approval. It will also be conditioned on receipt of notice that the bond has been received. If no one else wishes to be heard I will declare the hearing closed. Rod 'N' Reel Estates. The Chairman opened the hearing on the preliminary map of the subdivision known as "Rod 'N' Reel Estates" at 8:00 p.m. Henry Raynor read the Notice of Hearing. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant to Section 276 of the Town Law, Public Hearings will be held by the Southold Planning Boa~- -5- July 7, 1975 Town Plan~ug Board at the Town Clerk's Office, Main Road, Southold, New York, in said town on the 7th day of July, 1975 on the question of the following: 8:00 p.m. Approval of the preliminary map of subdivision known as "Rod 'N' Reel Estates" owned by Rod 'N' Reel Estates Company situated at Arshamomaque, in the Town of Southold, County of Suffolk and State of New York and bounded and described as follows: BEGINNING at a point on the easterly side of Albertson's Lane where the division line between premises herein described and land of Joseph F. Barsczewski intersects the easterly side of Albertson's Lane; running thence North 19° 03' 40" West along the easterly side of Albertson's Lane 862.72 feet to land of Milton Renick; thence along said last mentioned land the following two (2) courses and distances: (1) North 71° 39' 00" East 213.09 feet; (2) North 72° 07' 00" East 446.78 feet to other land of Milton Renick; thence along said laud the following three (3) courses and distances: (1) South 29° 51' 00" East 172.57 feet; (2) South 15° 36' 30" East 125.19 feet; (3) South 3° 34' 30" East 291.92 feet to land of Anthony Corazzini; thence South 16° 04' 00" East along said last mentioned land 508.20 feet; thence North 87° 13' 30" West along land of Joseph Barsczewski, Sr., and land of Joseph F. Barsczewski 624.86 feet to the easterly side of Albertson's Lane, the point or place of beginning. Containing 14.237 acres more or less. ~ffidavit of publication was presented from the Suffolk Weekly Times properly notarized. Chairman: I would like to point out at this time that this is a hearing on a preliminary map. I have notice under date of June 27 of this hearing to the attorney for the developers. I have the affidavit of ownership and receipt for the filing fee. The following letter under date of January 27, 1975 to the Planning Board was read: Gentlemen: A meeting to review several subdivisions was held at the office of Superintendent Raymond C. Dean, Peconic Lane, Peconic, at lO:00 a.m. on January 23, 1975. Present were Superintendent Dean, Justices Louis Demarest and Martin Suter of the Highway Committee and Mr. L. Tuthill, P.E. It was agreed by all that the road layout appeared to be satisfactory. It was noted that the contours outside the property were missing. A study and report by the developer so as to preclude any excess water caused by the subdivision going beyond the proposed drainage area within the subdivision. /s/ Raymond C. Dean Sup't of Highways Planning Boar~ -6- July 7, 1975 Chairman: The test hole information is important and there is some comment in the correspondence but we will come back to this later. Things seem to be in order. At this time I will call for anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition to the subdivision called" Rod 'N' Reel Estates" at Arshamomaque. Hearing none, I will ask for anyone that wishes to be heard in favor o£ it. Michael Weinstein, E~q., Attorney for the developers: I believe we have complied to the best of our ability in preparing a preliminary map for approval. I don't have any- thing more specific to say with the exception that we hope to finalize this development and complete the improvements in a manner that we will be proud of and the Town of Southold will be proud of. Chairman: There was some correspondence here about the water study and test holes. They are located but we have no record to show the nitrate results. Test holes are shown and there are roughly two feet of clay which is to be expected in this location. I would assume that you will have no real problem but normally this is one of the first things we ask for. It will be'required although not specifically mentioned. Mr. Raynor: The property across the street on the west side is in for subdivision and they are exploring the possibility of municipal water. It would be something to explore with Mr. Monsell of the Village of Greenport. Plans may have already been made to run a main down there. Have you been down on the property? Mr. Weinstein: Yes. Mr. Raynor: Do you find you have much trouble with standing water on lot 6? Mr. Weinstein: The only spot was the area marked 'swamp'. I didn't notice any there at all. Mr. Raynor: With clay it has a tendency to lay on top. The Department of Health will probably ask you to go to a five pool system because of the shallowness. Chairman: I think you better check not only the nitrates but the chlorides because this is one of these cases where you could easily get salt. There is a clay strata that holds the fresh water up. We will want to hold this up for almost as long as we can. It is a problem area and we want to be very careful. Either you have public water or else the water supply is adequate for the number of houses you propose. We will probably hold this up for the allowable time. In the meantime we will ask the Soil~and Water Conservation District for their findings. I will now declare the hearing closed. Planning Boar -7- J'uly 7, 1975 Orient Village. The Chairman opened the hearing on the preliminary map of the subdivision known as "Orient Village" at 8:30 p.m. Henry Raynor read the Notice of Hearing. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that p~rsuant to Section 27~ ef the Town Law, Public Hearings will be held by the Southold Town Planning Board at the Town Clerk's Office, Main Road, Southold, New York, in said town on the 7th day of July, 1975 on the question of the following: 8:30 p.m. Approval of the preliminary map of subdivision known as "Orient Village" owned by William W. Schriever situated at Orient in the Town of Southold, County of Suffolk and State of New York and bounded and described as follows: BEGINNING at the intersection of the northerly line of Orchard Street with the westerly line of Tabor Road; from said point of beginuing running along said northerly line of Orchard Street, South 88° 47' 30" West 113.93 feet; thence along land of Rich, three courses: (1) North 2° 05' 20" East 251.28 feet; thence (2) South 87° 47' 30" West 78.99 feet; thence (3) South 2° 18' 40" West 3.99 feet; thence along land of Carlsson South 82° 95' West 141.50 feet; thence along land of Wysocki, three courses: (1) North 2° ~8' East 18.12 feet; thence (2) North 85° 57' 10" West 96.49 feet; thence (3) South 2° 45' West 256.53 feet to said northerly line of Orchard Street; thence along said northerly line South 88° 47' 30" West 96.04 feet; thence along land of Vail three courses: (1) North 2° 17' 20" East 280.70 feet; thence (2) South 82° 05' West 70.0 feet; thence (3) South 8° 41' West 105.0 feet; thence along land of the Methodist Parsonage.and land of Woglom North 84° 09' West 120.0 feet; thence along land of Berra and land of King North 78° 59' West 107.50 feet; thence along land of Horton, two courses: (1) North 14° 44' East 100.87 feet; thence (2) North 70° 06' West 123.50 feet; thence along land of Vail and land of Kripinski, two courses: (1) North 32° 18' East 173.30 feet; thence (2) North 68° 26' West 190.50 feet to the easterly line of Village Lane; thence along said easterly line North 26° 18' 50" East 104.04 feet; thence along land of Moor-Jankowski, three courses: (1) South 65° 48' 40" East 14~.0 feet; thence (2) North 26° 18' 50" East 100.0 feet; thence (3) North 65° 48' 40" West 145.0 feet to said easterly line of Village Lane; thence along said east- erly line North 26~ 18' 50" East 112.02 feet; thence along land of Norkelun, two courses (1) South 65° ll' 30" East 95-07 feet; thence (2) North 25° 51' 50" East 137.58 feet; thence along land of Magrino, South 64° 44' 40" East Y9.43 feet; thence along said land of Magrino and land of Soito, North 17° ll' 30" East 267.23 feet; thence along land of Tabor, North 88° 20' 40" East 299.23 feet; thence along land of Schriever, four courses: (1) South 3° 40' 20" West 186.53 feet; thence (2) North 87° 47' 30" East 30.16 feet; thence (3) South 3° 40' 20" West 299.99 feet; thence (4) North 87° Planning Boa~ -8- July 7, 1975 47' 30" East 224.88 feet to said westerly line of Tabor Road; thence along said westerly line, South 0° 38' East 50.02 feet; thence along other land of Schriever, three courses: (1) South 87° 47' 30" West 228.65 feet; thence (2) South 3° ~0' 20" West 129.55 feet; thence (3) North 82° 32' 20" East 253.72 feet to said westerly line of Taber Road; thence along said westerly line South 8° 06' 30" East 50.0 feet; thence along land of the Town of Southold, three courses: (1) South 82° 32' 20" West lO0.O feet; thence (2) South 8° 06' 30" East lO0.O feet; thence (3) North 82° 32' 20" East 100.O feet to said westerly line of Tabor Road; thence along said westerly line, two courses: (1) South 8° 06' 30" East 95.27 feet; thence (2) South 1° 47' 30" West 268.55 feet to the point o~ beginning. Containing 13.849 acres, more or ~eSSo Affidavit of publication was presented from the Suffolk Weekly Times properly notarized. Chairman: There is a letter in the file notifying the developers of the preliminary hearing, a letter to the Super- intendent of Highways, a letter to the Attorney telling him that we need a resolution from the Town Board. Do we have a letter from the Town Board? Secretary: No. Chairman: State law requires that the Town Board approve all cluster concepts in the Town of Southold. The following is the letter from our professional engineer: To: Mr. Raymond C. Dean, Supt. of Highways, Southold Town Re: Subdivision entitled Orient Village dated March 20, 1975 Roads Profile shows 70' wide Tabor Road and a proposed new profile, but no such width is shown on plans. If Tabor Road is not to be changed then profile of proposed road will have to be revised. Personally see no apparent traffic problem due proposed road entering Village Lane. Traffic generated by nine building lots would be offset by an alternate route in case of road blockage. There is insufficient drainage. Suggest a recharge basin be constructed with the possibility of enlarge- ment of the existing drainage area. General Suggest restrictions on conveyance of plots "C" thru "N" to adjacent owners so as not to create additional building lots. It appears as several parcels are large enough for a building lot through a variance. This is on the letterhead of Lawrence M. Tuthill, P.E. Planning Boal ~ -9- ~uly 7, 1975 Chairman: Subsequent to that the Planning Board said a cul de sac. Going back through the file I find a letter to the developer from the Planning Board dated April 7, 1975. Dear Mr. Schriever: We have received information from numerous people in the Orient area that they do not look favorably on another connection to Village Lane. It is also our understanding that the Highway Committee does not approve it. We think that you would be well-advised to make a cul-de-sac in the proposed road or as another possibility you might consider abandoning the cluster concept and putting in a loop road with standard lots plus playground and so forth. We offer this suggestion only because to date there has only been one cluster concept approved in the Town of Southold. There is a letter from the Attorney for the developer dated February 4, 1975. Dear Mr. Wick~m: Pursuant to our recent conversation concerning the cluster subdivision of William W. Schriever at Orient, we are enclosing the proposed map submitted to you many months ago. In order to proceed before the Department of Environmental Control it is necessary that we submit a formal subdivision map as prepared by Mr. Van Tuyl. We, therefore, ask that you outline in pencil those areas which you wish to be included in the map. For reference purposes we point out that the areas containing arrows are a part of the premises purchased by Mr. Schriever but are to be conveyed to adjoining owners by a deed which will encumber each conveyance with a scenic easement. Those properties upon which the notation "exchange" has been made are to permit the straightening out of lot lines. The exchange has been completed between Schriever and Frost and Schriever and Wysocki. Kindly advise those areas which are to be included in the division so that we may attend to preparation of the same. Thank you. sub - /s/ Charles R. Cuddy Chairman: Under date of June 4, 1974 there is a letter from a couple of petitioners in the Village of Orient and a long list of names of people that are protesting the connection with Village Lane. I have pages and pages, say twelve. Getting hack to September 23, 1974, there is a letter from the Planning Board to Mr. Schriever. Planning BoaI -10- July 7, 1975 Dear Mr. Schriever: We understand you are proceeding with road construction which is within your rights but we would think that you would be well-advised to notify the Highway Department and the Highway Inspector before starting any major construction. /s/ John Wickham, Chairman The following letter under dante of January 16, 1974 to the Planning Board was read: Gentlemen: Confirming our discussions during the appearances before you by Mr. Schriever and myself it is my understanding that the proposed cluster development by Mr. Schriever including 14+ ~cres at Orient, New York, is generally acceptable to the ~lanning Board with the following exceptions: (1) Determination must be made as to the proposal to convey certain open space areas, constituting 1.~ acres, to adjoining property owners; (2) The parcel at the southeast corner of the proposed map, which is partly in business zoning and partly in resi- dential zoning, must be shown on the map and its proposed uses appropriately indicated. When the foregoing matters have been resolved and the Board advises whether the proposed road from Tabor Road to Village Lane is to be a through street or is to end in a cul-de-sac at Village Lane, then Mr. Schriever will submit preliminary plans in accordance with your requirements. As indicated to you, we wish to do this as promptly as possible and therefore ask that you advise us if there are any other conditions or considerations which you wish to have us comply with prior to submission of the preliminary map. /s/ Charles R. Cuddy Chairman: There is a letter to the Chairman of the Board of Review under date of January 17, 1974 in which the Planning Board points out that this is a cluster concept and we are trying to promote clustering. "I would further like to point out that under the provisions of the clustering ordinance of the Town of Southold, no requirement of the residential area may be reduced more than 50%.nor may clustering be used in any except the residential zone. This means that no lot may have less than 20,000 square feet nor 75 foot highway frontage. In this particular case, the lots are larger than the minimum required and can be made to include ~0,000 square feet without undue hardship. "It is the feeling of this Board that from a practical matter Planning Boa~ -11- July 7, 1975 the health of any occupants of houses to be built on these lots would be in no way changed by the manner in which the rear area of the lots might be handled." Chairman: There is a letter to the Department of Health dated January 2, 1974 which says your case has been scheduled and so forth. This subdivision and the cluster concept has been before the Planning Board for almost two years. The Planning Board has repeatedly stressed the fact that we believe in the clustering concept to preserve open space in the Town of Southold. I want further to say that it appears to me personally, this is a personal feeling, that Mr. Schriever is trying to do a favor in straightening out some of the property lines in this particular area and that as regards the clustering concept, the odds and ends of lots, we have and will insist may not be used for building additional residences, must be tied up and kept forever open. More than than, under the clustering concept, he has more than enough area without these odds and ends for the clustering lots that he is proposing. Therefore, it would appear to this Board as I Personally see it, I'm talking about one vote only, that if we can settle the problem of the highway, the proposed road, that Mr. Schriever's cluster concept fits in with this philo- sophy of the Town of preserving open space and might be con- sidered to be doing a very considerable favor to many of the property owners in the immediate area. Having said that, we hold public hearings to hear from the people involved. At this time, in accord with our normal practice, I will ask for those who wish to be heard in opposition to this subdivision. Please give your name to the secretary and in the interest of time make your statement as brief as possible. Alice Leddy: I am not opposed to Mr. Schriever's development. There are two things I am concerned with. Number one, the road into Village Lane and, number two, the name of the devel- opment. We are in the process of having Orient Village declared historical. Jim Leddy: The maps that are before you on the table here are'entitled "Orient Village". During the intermission that we had a few moments ago, there was another map being shown around which is also entitled "Orient Village" which is the one that is presently in existence. I think there could be some degree of confusion. It is a minor point but of some moment to the residents. Chairman: I would like to point out if you want to take this map and look at it, at the present time, the highway ends in a cul-de-sac and doesn't intersect Village Lane. This is the map that we are considering tonight. Are there some others that wish to be heard? We suggested some months ago to the developer that it not intersect Village Lane. Mr. Horn: If this is approved would it be possible later for Mr. Schriever to push a road through to Village Lane? P1 auning Boar -12- July 7, 1975 Chairman: The answer is it would not be possible. On the other hand, it has been the uniform practice of this Board to ask that a dotted line, dotted area, be reserved for possible dedication in case the residents of the area decided ~they wanted the road. This has happened so many times in the past in areas where people at the time thought it wasn't at all possible. It has happened so many times that we invariably ask for this but this will be only if the residents of the immediate area overwhelmingly request it and this might be forty er fifty years from now. Dr. Moor-Jankowski: The map shows a cul-de-sac which in part is on property which by right belongs to me,!~hich should have been conveyed to me by Mr. Schriever about a year and a half ago on which litigation is now pending, papers have been filed, Mr. Schriever has been served with the papers and I am in a position (a) for him trying to operate this land for his own use and I am in a position (b) for having this cul-de-sac in front of the windows of our bedroom. He has bought the property and has enough space to put the cul-de-sac on his own property. Chairman: It has been the policy of this Board at all times to requir~ that developers and adjacent people settle their differences before going too far and I am sure that some means can be made to settle this problem one way or the other. I wan~ the secretary to make note that we will require that these differences be settled. It would seem to me that it would pose no great problem in view of the fact that Mr. Schriever has more than enough area to do one of several things. Mr. Raynor: Dr. Moor-Jankowski, are you saying that this map is in error the way it is submitted? Dr. Moor-Jankowski: There is property here that I can show yo6 that should never have been in the development. My agreement with Mr. Schrie~er was that as soon as he obtained this property from the Thomas Estate. My agreement with Mr. Schriever was I was to receive an option and I was to get in recompense some land in back of the property. This whole property should have never been put into the development. In my last meeting with Mr. Schriever he told me that the plamning Board would not allow him to sell off this piece of property before he submitted which I don't believe to be the truth. Chairman: My suggestion would be that regardless of the rights and the w~ongs this Board will not take sides in this, but it wouldn't seriously interfere with this subdivision, this cluster concept. If this road was shortened somewhat and the cul-de-sac was made shorter. This is a possibility, it could be done that way and there would be basically no problem. There is area enough to do it. Dr. Moor-Jaukowski presented some sort of document which Mr. Raynor looked at. Planning Boal -13- July 7, 1975 Mr. Baker: I would just like to ask a question. Is "Orient Village" a trade name or a corporate name and, ~o, is it registered? ~f ?~r. Schriever: About two years ago I made an application to the County Clerk for the use of the name "Orient Village" and the name was approved as the name of the devel- opment. The only purpose for this name was to identify this map uniquely in the files of the County Clerk's Office where these things are filed. It has no other purpose than that. It was just a name. We could call it A B C, it would be just as good. This seemed to identify the area and was accepted. I have a letter to that effect about two years old. Chairman: It does not have to be used for this subdivision. If the Planning Board says one of the conditions will be that you change the name, that will be a condition so it is within the power of this Board to take that into consideration because regardless of whether it is accepted by the County Clerk or not, this Board has the authority to approve or disapprove names or highways, in fact, the whole concept. Charles Webb: In lieu of your last statement, I would like On my own behalf and on.behalf of many of the people that are here tonight to make a request that the Board consider that very seriously because in lieu of the work the Historical Society has done along this national preservation site. I think we have a right to feel that we live in the Village of Orient and we are trying to preserve it. I feel to have it designated on a map such as this would be detrimental to our cause. Mr. Van Nostrand: I would like to know what use the map s~0ws for the commercial property. Chairman: This map does not include any commercial property. The property that Mr. Schriever holds on Tabor Lane or Road is ~already zoned business and is not included in this residential development. It includes his buildings on the north end and except for the fifty feet out for this proposed road goes down to within 80 feet of the Town Highway sump. That is all zoned business. Mr. Van Nostrand: May I also ask what type of architectures. is contemplated for the houses? Chairman: The Planning Board has site plan approval on this. We have no Architectural Board of Review in the Town of Southold but I think by now everybody knows that we lean heavily toward colonial-type and non-uniformity. If there is anything the Chairman of the ~lanning Board doesn't like it's French Provincial. The people have gotten the message. I want to say at this time before we go any further that I feel that everyone of these comments and suggestions have been constructive and good and if you have any more like them, we would be very happy to hear them. Planning Boar -14- Lly Y, 1975 Dr. Moor-Jankowski: Is it actually true that the Planning ~oard would have not approved if Mr. Schriever wanted to set off~a piece ~o me for which I had prior option before he even started? Chairman: Dr. Moor-Jankowski, a property owner may sell bits and pieces of his property in what our attorney calls casual sale which he has done apparently to Wysocki and another as long as he doesn't sell more than one every second or third year. Number two, that he doesn't sell away and leave himself less than one acre. In the interest of time, it is obvious that Mr. Schriever couldn't make casual sales of one every two or three years and get anywhere with all these pieces of property he is trying to save out. Let's be reasonable. I think... He could not sell piecemeal all the way around. Let's not get into this because this is small potatoes. At this time I will ask for those that wish to speak in favor of the development. Charles Cuddy, lawfirm of Tooker, Tooker & Esseks in Riverhead: We represent Mr. Schriever. Mr. Chairman, originally I was ,.going ~o set forth the map on the wall but I think, probably, everybody has seen the map and recognizes that we have eleven lots. I think Mr. Wickham has well explained the cluster concept to keep open space. Some of you probably don't know it but this Southold Town Board has promoted this probably more than any other board on eastern Long Island, that is, trying to preserve space and that's what we have done in the southern part and northern part of this particular concept. We have eleven lots which actually is on a little bit more than eleven acres. The density remains the same which is one house per acre. The 12th lot is in excess of 40,000 square feet which is $1so a residential lot, but it is not in the clustering area. We have been before a number of boards including this board, and also the Town Board of the Town of Southold. We have been before the Suffolk County Health Department and they have given us approval for this concept. We have been before the Suffolk County Department of Environmental Control and we ~have preliminary approval. We expect to have a hearing within the next month and that time get formal approval. What I would like to do and I know you have some questions regarding the road. I would like to point out that Mr. Schriever initially had it so the road would go through and we acceded to the Planning Board and have indicated that there is going ~to be a cul-de-sac. We still, however, are asking to permit us to have the road go through and we would like the Planning Board to consider from our point of view why we would like the road to go through. We have tonight Mr. Latham, Irving, who is an engineer and system analyst. We would like to present an analysis of our concept of the road going through. Before he does that, I also would like Mr. Schriever to show you some of the architectural renderings that we have which indicate the type of houses that we propose to put on these lots. T would like to say one thing about Orient Village. We used the name Orient Village just as Mr. Schriever indicated a~. only a designation and it is only so that we have something Planning Boar -15- July 7, 1975 that we can Dut on file with the County Clerk to file a subdivision. We don't want to preempt the name "Orient Village". We will certainly be happy to replace it with another name. We have no patent on the name "Orient Village". We just used it as a name to refer to a specific area. Obviously, you have a different area in mind. I would like Mr. Schriever to show you some drawings of the property if that's o~k. with the Planning Board and then have Mr. Latham speak for a few minutes. Mr. Schriever: These were~m~de when I started. They are getting yellow I've been in this thing so long. These are some renderings not to be taken terribly specifically because it will be adjusted to suit the desires of the owner with respect to room layout and so forth but the idea is to give you a picture of the type of house we want to have in this area. When we file the covenants on this property we are goihg to make a statement in there, I hope that it is enforce- able, to the effect that we want to limit the type of archi- tecture to that which is exemplified by the houses on Village Lane. If we can succeed in that, then this is what we agree we would have. I think you will recognize some of these houses. This is the George Vail house. It is larger than ~'his house. ~,Chairman: Bill, may I point out that in the Town of Southold there cannot be any multiple residences in the cluster concept. They have to be single family houses. There will be no two family houses and I want everybody to understand that in Southold it has to be single family residences only. Mr. Schriever: These houses are limited, in the covenants they will be limited, to 1200 square feet minimum, for one story and 1800 for two story which is a fair size house. No attached garages because it is not in keeping with the area at all. The garages will be separate. There are certain other restrictions including the setback I hope to establish at fifty feet instead of the town's requirement of 35 feet because the lots are quite deep and there is no problem with the amount of space available and I think it will make it more attractive and a benefit to the residents. Are there any questions on the type or the way it will appear when it is done. I will be glad to answer. Mr. Webb: Can you at this time estimate or give us an idea of what the price range of these houses would be? Mr. Schriever: I don't know. I got some prices here that are about a year and a half old and the way things are going in this country, God only knows what it will cost by the time I get this thing done. The price of the road has literally doubled in those two years. Mr. Webb: What was the price a year and a half ago? Planning Boa~ -16- ~ly 7, 1975 Mr. Schriever: This house here was estimated to cost $40,000. That would be plus the price of the lot. Actually, I believe based on what I have observed that a house in good condition in Orient as it stands now, these new houses would probably sell completed at about the same price that you would sell a second-hand house. I saw a house go in the last year or so for $45,000. These sre larger houses than that and of course they are new and slot more area than most of the lots. Are there any other questions with respect to the appearance of the thing? The wiring will be all underground. Mr. Raynor: Mr. Schriever, do you intend to build these homes? Mr. Schriever: What I would like to do is, I would like to take the contract to build a home to the requirements of the person who wants to,ultimately own it and sell him the finished product. That's the way I would like to do it. The covenants are tighter than my lawyer thinks I can hold it in court and I think the best way to really control everything is to do it myself, if I can. I don't know with these delays it is costing money. Every month you sit around it's ~nother thousand dollars. Chairman: Let me comment on one other thing. Bill, I am not just sure how a site plan works on cluster concept, but if you were to build to specifications and to order would you be willing to submit individual site plans to the Planning Board. This is something we haven't explored, but it is obvious if you are going to build them one by one. Mr. Schriever: I think I can control it better that way. Chairman: What I am saying is would you be willing to take the Planning Board into consultation for this so that we can more or less preserve the colonial atmosphere? Mr. Schriever: I have no objection at this time. Mr. Fagan: Is the road going to be allowed to come through on Village Lane or not? Chairman: This map does not show the road going through to Village Lane. We have 12 pages at least of people who do not want it to go through. We have discussed this with the Town Board briefly and the Highway Committee specifically and they concur ~this stage of the game so I would say that at this stage of the game there are very few people outside of the developers who want it to come through and there are a great many people who have been very vocal about their not wanting it to come through. We are, this Board is not usually rail- roaded into anything but we have to face the facts of life just the same. We still want to hear from Mr. Latham. Mr. Cuddy: We don't want to appear as a minority of one, but Plsnning Boa~ -17- July 7, 1975 we really feel and you've been very generous with us listening to what we've had to say so far. We would like to present the reasons that we think it is appropriate for the road to go through and there are a good number of them and I think Mr. Latham will touch on most of them. I'll introduce him at this time. I~g Latham: At Mr. Schriever's request I did an analysis of what would happen assuming the development is built and if~ the road is connected and if it is not connected and wh~t I~~ would like to present briefly is the assumption behind this analysis, what the conclusions are as regards to traffic. To review what I am going to say to start with, we made a couple of assumptions. First, we assumed that the traffic is proportional to the number of houses. We didn't go around and count houses, count cars or anything like that, but we can count houses. We assume that if there are more houses, there are more cars. Secondly, we assumed that people take the shortest route if they want to get somewhere, if they want to get to the Main Road, or the post office, they go as directly as possible. What this discounts, possibly, i~ the possibility that some roads are more scenic than others or that there are no four-lane highways that are more desirable to pass through. We just take the shortest one. If you agree with these two assumptions, we get to one conclusion which is really a trivial conclusion. It is very easy to show that every time you add a conneetion, you add a road and connect it on, the total traffic goes down. This is obvious because if you add a road on, it is obvious that somebody can take a short cut and, therefore, the traffic will always decrease. That doesn't mean that it will decrease on every single road. Obviously, if you build a road, before you open it there is no traffic on it. After you open it, then there is traffic, so it goes up on that particular road but if you consider all the roads, the traffic has to decrease. What we are now interested in particularly is what is the effect on Village Lane? What we found is that we estimate that Village Lane is broken up into several parts when we add a road on and that, in general, the effect will be less than two percent of the total traffic and that actually on part of Village Lane the traffic will be reduced, because people will turn off. With this in mind, I would like to go through quickly ~w we did the analysis and the results. First thing was to count the houses and these are the houses in Orient. I have assumed there are going to be nine houses in the development eventually and that two houses associated with the development are going to be built on Orchard Street. One thing is that there are many, many houses down here on King Street and the only way you can get to them is to go on Village Lane. You assume people won't go on Narrow River Road. Now, you take this data and this map and first we have to divide the traffic up into several parts. What is the traffic to the Main Road? This is a redrawing of the map in the neighborhood of the development. This is Village Lane, this is the new road. Here it is connected and here it is disconnected. This is Route 25. I have drawn the roads with the width in proportion to the traffic. The way Planning Boa~ -18- July 7, 1975 that works is you consider my house down here somewhere so I have to get to the Main Road so I go down Village Lane because that's the shortest route so that makes a mark. I do that for every other house in town and, say that everybody all of a sudden wants to go to the Main Road and they each leave an ink trail, this is what it looks like. It is quite apparent that you are getting the great bulk of traffic down to the Main Road. We considered two cases, first of all, with the development with the road opening. When~!~the road is open if anyone in the devel- opment wants to ~et to the Main Road they will go this way. That would be the shortest route. They have to come out this way because there is no connection here so you have got to get to this point. If you make the connection and tie the thing together, h~t~eop~ople will go on Village Lane and the other half will go the other way. For~ half the people it will be shorter to go this way and for half the people it will be shorter to go that way. What that does is that adds traffic to Village Lane as you would suspect. It adds half the develop- ment, nine and half of nine is five. That's the case of going to the Main Road. I assume for the pnrposes of keeping proportion that there is one trip to the Main Road each day. It doesn't make any difference because it is the proportion that counts. The next thing to be considered is the Post Office. Here's what the map looks like with the traffic to the Post Office. What this reflects is that there are alot of people outside of the Village that have post office boxes. We know that because there are presently 283 post office boxes and there are only by actual count 130 some houses in the town so unless people are taking two or more they must be up in this area. So when those people go to the post office they come down here and now we use our assumption that they don't make a U-turn in front of the Post Office and therefore, they go around the block and back to the Main Road. I assume if you come in from town you have to go back to your house and I go to the monument and turn around and come back again. The only alternative is to go down here and make the U-turn. We assume they all go in at the monument no matter where they come from and go down to the Post Office and around the block. What happens with our road of interest here is if you make this connection, you ask how are people who go to the Post Office from the development. We'll exclude the first possibility. If it is connected they can walk. If it is disconnected, then they will drive around the block and come back. If it's blocked you can't get through there. The provision is, as far as I understand, that it is going to be closed. Another thing by the Post Office of interest is the store. What happens is that if you opened the road here, then you can go around the block, around a short block rather than go on and that will decrease this traffic. That's also true of the people who live on Orchard Street down in this area. If you live on Orchard Street, you go to the Post Office, right now you go around the block and back to Orchard Street. All these things are small compared to the total width of the road, but nonetheless, that does decrease the traffic here. Planning Boal -19- July 7, 1975 Question: You have increased the traffic at this intersection, have you not? Mr. Latham: Obviously, you can't enter the intersection if it is closed but these cars would ordinarily go all around the block. Question: But if you put this street through, this shows that you have increased the activity of traffic right at this corner. Chairman: Let the hearing come to order and we will just ask everybody to be gentlemanly. We gave the opponents a fair chance to speak and we intend fully to give the proponents the same privileges. Mr. Latham: I don't think this is going contrary to common sense. Common sense says if you are going to the Post Office and you can make a turn before going to the end of the road you make that turn. This is just the Post Office traffic. We talked about the Main Road traffic and we will talk about the other kind of traffic. Dr. Moor-Jankowski: We are all the time talking about nine new houses. However, when I look at this map I see a business zone and I see here a service road to the business zone. If a trailer truck comes from Greenport or comes by the ferry and goes down west, he would sure come down Tabor Road and through here. Nine houses are negligible but you are opening to traffic to a business zone. Mr. Latham: If you assume that the truck will not turn around. If he turns around there is no problem. Tabor Road is almost unused. Chairman: The point to remember is the Town of Southold has long since granted a business zone to this property on Tabor Road and your comment about trucks is rather unfounded. At the present time, if a truck went down there he would have to go down to Orchard Street and either come back Village Lane which would be a mistake or else go out Narrow River Road and so forth. That's already been granted. That's in the past and there can be a business development there and it is in order and we expect it and have to provide for it. That's not within ..... Dr. Moor-Jankowski: I just want to explain that instead of going through the Tabor Road and returning through the Tabor Road the truck will have a shorter way and we all know the big trucks in Orient that take the shorter road. If there is no going through the trailer truck will go on Tabor Road and go back on Tabor Road. Mr. Latham: The final thing we considered is traffic house to house and basically this is done on the assumption that Planning Bo~ -20- ~uly 7, 1975 people visit each other in town. We assume everyone on adjacent streets will walk. We assumed they wQuld turn around and come back. What happens here is that house to house traffic, if the road is open, then anyone who wants to go out of the development to anywhere has got to go down Orchard Street. If you close that road, the main effect is it takes alot of that traffic that was on Orchard Street away. There is a very slight increase of traffic from this development. This traffic on Orchard Street is cut about a third from doing that. To summarize these figures, this is my analysis of the total traffic effect. The green will show what happens with the intersection blocked. The blue shows what will happen if the intersection is opened. The effect is, if you look at the top segment. The traffic if you open the intersection, the cars on this section decrease slightly, decrease by about 14. It increases in front of the post office by about 4. It increases by about 1 in front of the church. I think the s~mmary of the traffic is that it's a very small effect. It's only about two percent of the total. It's based upon the assump- tion of one trip to the post office per day and one trip to the Main Road per day and one house to house visit per day. We didn't take into account, for example, the Bay House down here which generates a tremendous amount of traffic or the museum or any of these other activities. What they are going to do is pump considerably~ore traffic on Village Lane. Man: I think this is a good argument as to why we don't want another intersection. There is already too much traffic there now. Mr. Latham: The point is that the intersection is not going to increase the traffic. It will decrease it on this part of it and this decrease is actually on the most heavily used part of the road. Chairman: Mr. Cuddy, do you have anything else? Mr. Cuddy: That will conclude our presentation. We will make a promise to you that we will not use the name "Orient Village". Chairman: May I ask one question for our information. On the original concept there was stated that you anticipated widening Tabor Road to 70 feet. We note that this sketch shows 50 feet. Mr. Schriever: When we started out with this thing we were I suppose babes in the woods, ambitious and we thought that we could present a complete package. Unfortunately, we found out that everything seems to depend on everything else and if we were talking about this intersection over here, there was something over here that is boloxing up the works and we couldn't discuss this and so on. So we finally decided the only way to do this thing is one thing at a time so we took the thing which could be done without any other thing and Planning Boa~ -21- ~ly 7, 1975 we made the application on the development without any changes over here. We did propose in our sketch map to widen Tabor Road to 70 feet because it is a business area and we thought this would be a beneficial thing. We also suggested although it has nothing to do with this development that Tabor Road would probably eventually be extended down to the bend in King Street. We could suck about half the traffic and this wide road would have a tremendous effect in reducing the traffic on Village Lane. We felt seeing that seemed to be a good idea, if this was widened it would make it very much easier to accept that traffic without Village Lane. I want to point out that Village Lane is 24 feet 3 inches wide at this intersection and pretty much throughout. The roads that are required by the specifications by the Town of Southold are 36 feet curb to curb. This road as shown here is 50 feet wide and this Village Lane as shown is 40 feet wide but physically when you get there, this would be 36 feet wide and this would be 24 feet wide and you have in effect one more lane on this road int~erms of width. Chairman: Bill, would you be prepared and again the Planuing Board hasn't discussed this, neither have we asked the Highway Committee but would you be prepared to make, widen Tabor Road to 70 feet or 60 feet. In some areas of the Town we have the roads 60 feet. Mr. Schriever: In the Town specifications, I didn't realize this at the time I proposed, I'm not even sure it was in there, in the Town specifications the next step happens to be 80 feet. I wasn't aware of this. My proposal of 70 feet, the actual road width would be 50 feet. In other words, there would be two l0 foot shoulders. What we are talking about is right-of-way not the actual road. The main highway, Route 25, is 20 feet wide, so Village Lane is four feet wider than the Main Highway. It is not really all that narrow. If there are no cars parked at the intersection, there is no problem there at all. Mr. Cuddy: What I think we are saying is, yes, we would but we wouldn't want it to be necessarily dependent. Chairman: Bill, I just want to tell you that in the future it will carry more traffic. Mr. Schriever: You are talking about a 60 foot right-of-way? Chairman: Yes, a 60 foot right-of-way. Mr. Schriever: I proposed 70 because I wanted a little wider shoulder~ Chairman: What I am saying is if the Planning Board came back and said, we would like to have this 60 foot road in view of what we think the expansion of this area is going to be, you would be more or less open to it. Planning Boa~ -22- July 7, 1975 Mr. Schriever: The thing that concerns me is not the width of the right-of-way but the physical width of the road. Chairman: We have learned the hard way that it's the width of the right-of-way that is the important thing in the long run because these roads will be rebuilt in 25 or 30 years, but the width of the right-of-way can never be changed. If there is no one else who wishes to be heard in favor of this I will declare the hearing closed. Man: Does the Board set a time limit on completion of the project? Chairman: No, bonds are usually posted for ~l the capital improvements, the roads, drainage areas and those bonds are usually for three years so you can figure it's always going to be three years ahead and usually the bonds are extended for at least one more year so we are talking about four years. This is what Mr. Schriever says, what a house may be worth today is a far cry from what it may be worth four years from nOW. Man: I was a little disturbed by Mr. Schriever's means of construction, selling house by house as he got a contract. This could run to ten years. Chairman: Let me point out to all of you that this ~s one of the things which has made the Town of Southold such a wonderful place to live in. Just exactly this type of thing. The thing we do not want and I am speaking personally I suspect but I also think I have the complete backing of the rest of the Planning Board and the Town Board. We don't want somebody to come in here and buy a large farm and buil a hundred homes just like that. Then you've got all kinds of problems, school problems, highway problems, and everything else. The thing which has been good for the Town of Southold is to have individuals come out here, buy a lot, build a home. This is exactly what we want. It has been good for us. We are trying to promote it. This is strictly the historical pattern we have had in the Town of Southold and I think, without exception, it has been good. We do not want people to come in and suddenly build even ten or twenty or thirty homes. This dislocates the schools, the highways, the community, everything. I will declare the hearing closed and I want to thank you again for coming here and you have made alot of constructive criticism and discussion. Thank~ you very much. (Hearing closed at 9:45 p.m.) A letter was presented from Spencer B. Terry, Jr. and made part of the minutes. Mr. Olsen appeared and asked permission to have a work meeting on July 21, 1975 to go over all his files. His request was granted. Plauning Boa~ -23- July 7, 1975 Long Pond Estates. Ernest Wilsberg and Richard Cron, Esq. appeared. Discussion was had as to making lot #2 the park aud play- ground instead of lot #6. Mr. Wickham will look at the property and make a decision about this matter. Orient Point. Mr. Cron audMr. Wilsberg appeared. Mr. Cron made a request for an extension of three months to submit the final map of the subdivision known as "Ori~t Point". On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED ~o grant a three-month extension of the time to present a final map in the subdivision known as "Orient Point". Vote of the Board: All ayes. Absent: Mr. Grebe. Mr. Wickham requested a meeting with Mr. Cron to discuss this matter with him. Sled~eski minor. Rudy Bruer, Esq. and Peter Sledjeski appeared. Mr. Sledjeski said he would be willing to sell Mr. Rose a fifteen foot right-of-way but he wouldn't give it to him. Mr. Wickham told him when he sold this property to someone else he would be selling the right-of-way auyway. Mr. Sledjeski could still give Mr. Rose the use of the right-of- way in the center of the property. Mr. Sledjeski was adamant that he wasn't giving anything away. Quail Run Estates. Ben Mendozza appeared. There was discussion about an insufficient area for park and playground and that it shouldn't be broken up but put all in one place. His cuts and fills on his profiles will have to be balanced. The Board felt that the recharge basin should be excavated and fenced and Mr. Mendozza disagreed because he said the water percolates well and will go to the creek. He said he only put the drainage in just in case.it was needed. Discussion was held on a road connection and a catch basin fifty feet from the corner and the water piped back the 50 feet. Planning Boa~ -2~- euly 7, 1975 On motion made by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to approve the minor subdivision of Peter Sledjeski in Orient subject to curb cut approval from the State of New York;and the giving of a fifteen foot right- of-way on the westerly side of the premises, said right-of- way to be included in lot #3 or extinguished in favor of the right-of-way in the center of the premises; review by the Suffolk County Planning Commission. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Moisa, Coyle. Absent: Grebe On motion made by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was RESOLVED to request the developer of Quail Run Estates, Mr. Ben Mendozza, to put in a connecting road in his subdivision parallel to Lot #11. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Moisa Absent: Grebe Heritage Harbor. Riverside Homes. The secretary was to inform the attorney for the developer, Michael Hills, that the Planning Board has as yet been unable to obtain approval for a cluster concept from the Town Board. Greenfields. The princip&~s in this subdivision were listed as Gorwitz and Barnett as per affidavit of ownership but upon receiving the bond, three additional names were listed as co-principles. The secretary was to request from Mr. 01sen a new affidavit of ownership if these people are actually owners. Mr. Raynor made a motion, seconded by Mr. Coyle and carried to adOourn the meeting. Meeting adjourned at ll:45p.m. Resp~ectfully submitte~d, Mur ~et Brush~/Secretary Wickham, Chairman