HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-04/17/1978P
JOHN WICKHAM, Chairman
FRANK S. COYLE
HENRY E. RAYNOR, Jr.
FREDERICK E. GORDON
JAMES WALL
$outhold, N.Y. 11971 ·
TELEPHONE
765- 1938
A regular meeting, of the Southold Town Planning Board was
held on Monday, April 17, 1978 at 7:30 p.m. at the Town Hall,
Main RSad, Southold, New York.
Present were:
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry E. Raynor, Jr., Vice-Chairman
Frank S. Coyle
Frederick E. Gordon
James Wall
Fr~klin Bear, North Fork Environmental Council
Arthur and Millicent Gossner, League of Women Voters
Peter Campbell, Suffolk Times
Doug Love, Long Island Traveler-Watchman
Corwin Grathwohl, Businessmen's Association
Jean Tiedke, League of Women Voters
Mr. Raynor chaired the meeting.
7:30 p.m. Public Hearing on the question of the approval of the
preliminary map of "Cutchogue Joint Venture" located at Cutchogue,
New York. Richard Cron, Esq., Howard Young.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing and presented proofs
of publication in the Long Island Traveler-Watchman and The Suffolk
Times. Mr. Raynor went over the checklist and reviewed the file.
He read the updated recommendations of L. Tuthill, Town Engineer.
Mr. Raynor: I would like to open the meeting to anyone present
that would like to speak in opposition to the proposed subdivision
called "Cutchogue Joint Venture"
Mr. James Cross: Is the southwest corner of Lot #5 on the revised
plan approximately the samedistance from the southwest corner of
the property as it was in the original plan, 350 feet roughly?
Mr. Raynor: I would say approximately.
Planning Board -2- -- April 17, 1978
Mr. Cross: Then it remains the same as before. Lot #5 averages
200 feet underwater currently. Lot #6, the southern border would
run maybe 75 feet underwater currently and then it tapers off.
So, Lot #5 on the original plan, if it is in the same location,
the stake that was put in at the board's request dividing lots 5
and 6 just came out from underwater about a week ago. The water
level at t~e present time is about average for this time of year.
It has dropped appreciably the last few weeks. There is no way
lots 5 and 6 can be corrected without diverting the water to the
adjacent property to the west because that is the course of the
water that comes from farms well above the North Road all the way
from Oregon Road.
Mr. Raynor: Would you like to see a copy of the map?
Mr. Cross: I looked at the new one but I didn't have the old one
to compare.
Mr. Raynor: Is there anyone else that has any objection. Hearing
none, I will ask if there is anyone present this evening to speak
in favor.
Richard Cron, Esq.: I am appearing on behalf of the developers
of the subdivision. I will take recognition of Mr. Cross' remarks
on lot 5 and 6 and will have to refer them to my engineer. We
have been here on numerous occasions, a long period of time and
all of these matters were considered and as a result of which we
were compelled to make provisions. We made these in satisfaction
of Mr. Cross' objections. I would submit that where we have
complied with all the rules of this board that the board adopt a
resolution granting approval to the preliminary map.
Mr. Raynor: Is there anyone else that would like to speak in
favor of this subdivision. Is there anyone present this evening
that has any information concerning this property that would not
be in favor or in objection to the subdivision.
Mr. Cross: I would like to restate that there has been no adjust-
ment at all to what was said before. The only thing that was
taken out was the spur road. I would suggest that you come over
and take a look at the property rather than rely on these
professional maps. All you have to do is go over and see it. It
is under water. It is every year.
Mr. Cron: The board apparently was aware of Mr. Cross' objections
at the time they requested we make the revisions by moving the
spur road. There was no objection raised by the board about
there may be water on lots 5 and 6. It is not particularly
pertinent to the approval of the preliminary map.
Mr. Raynor: I would like to take issue with you concerning that.
At one of our prior meetings and an investigation in the field
Parts of lot 5 when I reviewed it were under water.
Mr. Cron: I am saying that nobody objected to the layout as a
result of hearing that information. The map was revised with that
knowledge in hand.
Planning Board ~ -3- - April 17, 1978
Mr. Wickham asked some question regarding a possible mistake on
the map.
Mr. Cron: We don't understand what you said, Mr. Wickham.
Mr. Wickham: Have your engineer come forward. What are these
lines?
Mr. Young: The proposed grade.
Mr. Coyle: What you are saying is these are the lines to use.
Mr. Young: I am proposing that elevation by a dotted line and we
propose to fill it in. These are proposed lines.
Mr. Raynor:
area that is
is manmade.
I have a complaint regarding the park and playground
separated from the drainage area. It looks like it
Mr. Young: If the board is going to approve this design of
drainage pond in lieu of a recharge basin with the fencing and so
forth, I would include filling in.
Mr. Coyle: Road D should hit the line rather than leaving a small
area on each end of them.
Mr. Cross: That is a ridge and that drops off very rapidly.
Mr. Wickham: It still should go to the property line.
Mr. Coyle: On this Road A there should be some area for the
turnaround.
Mr. Raynor: Also, reference should be made to this entranceway
here. We have a jib piece again that I thought was taken care of.
Mr. Coyle: Who is going to maintain that?
Mr. Raynor: There should ba some determination made on the
property between the entrance and Route 25. I personally do not
feel that we should include your sloping area for this drainage
pond in the park and playground area.
Mr. Young: I didn't include down slopes. I included to the top.
There was more discussion regarding this between Mr. Wickham and
Mr. Young that was inaudible.
Mr. Cross: That was continuous water throughout all the way down
to the pond. This access road was closed for almost three menths
and that is the fourth time in ten years this has happened.
There is no property here for park and recreation.
Mr. Raynor: The way I understand it the park and recreation is
computed on the upland.
Mr. Coyle: At the present time, lots 5 and 6 don't have buildable
land.
Planning Board - -4- -~ April 17, 1978
Mr. Cross: About one-half of lot 5 is under water right now and
another 50 feet for at least 200 feet is sharply declining or
under water. The entire piece drains into this spot here.
Mr. Raynor: The area indicated is sufficient enough to comply
and it still leaves a large buildable parcel.
Mr. Young: The roads will interrupt it.
Mr. Cron: I w0uld like to make one request of the board and that
is to furnish me with a copy of Mr. Tuthill's comments and
recommendations and in writing of the board adoption and any
additional recommendations the board wishes to make.
Mr. Raynor: Is there anyone else that would like to be heard
on the subdivision Cutchogue Joint Venture. Hearing none, we
will declare this hearing closed.
Centennial Manor bond. Richard Cron, Esq. The bond estimate is
being evaluated because he substantially disputes the figures.
He requested it be deferred until a future meeting so he can
have an opportunity to meet with his engineer and the developers
of the property.
8:00 p.m. Public Hearing on the question of the approval of the
final map of the subdivision known as "Paradise-by-the-Sound"
owned by John E. Rath and located at Greenport. Roger Rath
represented his father.
Mr. Raynor read the notice of hearing and presented proofs of
publication in the Long Island Traveler-Watchman and the Suffolk
Times. He directed that the secretary make a note that the
courses and distances as contained in the legal notice are
reflected on thepreliminary map and not the final map. Mr.
Raynor went over the checklist and reviewed the file. Mr. Raynor
read the recommendations from the town engineer, Larry Tuthill.
Mr. Raynor: Do we have any further correspondence from the
Supt. of Highways?
S$cretary: No.
Mr. Raynor: Is there anyone here this evening that would like
to speak in opposition to this subdivision "Paradise-by-the-
Sound"? Hearing none, I would like to open the hearing to anyone
that would like to speak in favor of this subdivision at this
time.
Roger Rath: I represent my father who is the owner of the
property and I just want to say that we hope this evening that
you gentlemen look favorably upon this map and we hope that we
have conformed favorably to your dictates and we look forward to
giving the Town'of Southold a very nice subdivision with one acre
Planning Board -5- April 17, 1978
lots along Long Island Sound in the Village of Greenport and Town
of Southold. If you have any further recommendations at this
point, we would be more than willing to listen to ¥our~recommenda-
tions but at this point I feel we have conformed with all
recommendations and again I hope it is upon our mutual convenience
that we can expedite this approval.
Mr. Raynor: Is there anyone else here this evening that would
like to speak in favor of this subdivision?
Howard Young: ~I am in favor of it.
Mr. Raynor:
like to open
or questions
Is there anyone else that is in favor of it? I would
the hearing to anyone present that has any i~formation
concerning this subdivision that the board Should hear.
Jean Tiedke: One thing I am interested in is you have this rear
setback line from the bluff. To what does that refer? Is that
100 feet from the top of the bluff? Do you ever have to have a
variance for the setback here or does that situation not arise
here?
Mr. Raynor: No.
Mrs. Tiedke: Why wasn't it clustered?
Mr. Hath: I think the developer has a choice.
developer but here to represent the developer.
conformity with one acre.
I am not the
We are in
Mr. Raynor: The option is the developer's. We suggested it on
several parcels. It is not something that this board is able to
enforce.
Mrs. Tiedke: I am asking why they didn't consider clustering.
Mr. Hath: We did back in '76.
Mrs. Tiedke: The yield would be the same.
Mr. Raynor: Are there any other questions anyone has of the
board at this time?
Mrs. Cossner asked a question regarding the sufficiency of the
park and recreation area.
Mr. Hath: On the final map we have two park and recreation areas
and one abuts the Town of Southold which has approximately one
acre of park and recreation area which abuts lot #26 which gives
you over two acres of park and recreation.
Mrs. Tiedke: Is that permissable to count Town?
Mr. Haynor: This is something the board considered, the fact
that we required this developer to give up Sound frontage for park
and playground. As a result we may consider and we have up to
this point, the fact that it may not come up to 100% of the
requirement.
Planning Board -6- - April 17, 1978
Mr. Wickham: And we wanted it up to the Town of Southeld
recreation area. It is really an advantage to the Tewn.
Mrs. Tiedke: Visual only. If anyone crossed that fence, what
would happen?
Mr. Wickham:
to the Town.
In the long run we thought it would be of advantage
Mr. Raynor: Is there anyone else? Hearing none, I will declare
the hearing closed.
Simicich cluster subdivision. Charles Cuddy, Esq. Mr. Cuddy
presented 6 copies of a map to the board. There was discussion
on the park and playground area presented on the map and Mr.
Wickham said the board could waive the requirement for park and
playground if iq thought it was breaking up viable agriculture.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED to grant final approval to the map of the minor
subdivision of property of Edgar and Arlene Marvin and authorize
the chairman to sign the map.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Mr. Wickham signed the map and one copy was presented to Mr. Cron
who was still in the audience.
8:30 p.m. Public Hearing on the question of the approval ef the
final map of the subdivision "Country Club Estates" owned~ by Philip
Babcock and others end located at Cutchogue. Gary FlannerOlsen,
Esq. and Philip Babcock.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing and presented proofs
of publication in the Long Island Traveler-Watchman and the Suffolk
Times. He went over the checklist and reviewed the file.
Mr. Wickham: We said we wanted some sort of covenant that LOt #32
would not be presented at a future time for a variance for change
of use.
Mr. 01sen: You said you wanted permitted uses in Agricultural-
Residential.
Mr. Raynor: The file seems to be in order. As is the custom,
we will open the hearing with anyone present this evening that
would like to speak in opposition to the subdivision "CoUntry
Club Estates". Hearing none, is there anyone.present this
evening that weuld like to speak in favor of the proposed sub-
division "Country Club Estates"?
Planning Board - -7- - April 17, 1978
Mr. 01sen: As you are well aware, this subdivision has been
pending before the board for some time and we have been before
the board on many occasions and I think what you have before you
now which has Health Department approval and all the necessary
approvals is the net result of all of our meetings and conversations
and exceeds the standards of the Town of Southold as far as area
and compliance with all the requests that the board has made.
You also have letters in the file from the Supt. of Highways and
Lawrence Tuthill with approval. I would request that the Board
give its approval tonight to this subdivision.
Mr. Raynor: Is there anyone else that would like to speak in
favor of this subdivision?
Mr. Babcock: I hope it will be a credit to the Town.
Mr. Raynor: IS there anyone present that has some information
concerning this subdivision that should be brought before this
board at this time.
Mr. Coyle: In that list of particulars is there a disclosure?
Mr. Raynor: Yes.
The following letter under date of February 25, 1978 to the
Southold Town Planning Board from the Conservation Advisory
Council was read.
Gentlemen:
We have completed an inspection of the proposed site of
Country Club Estates. The following are our findings.
1. There is a definite possibility that the drainage area
will affect the surrounding marsh. While vertical percolation
could take place during most of the year, this would not be
possible when the ground is frozen. Since a limited amount of
tidal exchange takes place in this area of the marsh it would be
possible for contaminants to become concentrated in this area.
2. The marsh area as indicated on the map appears to be
accurate. The actual area of wetland will be imPossible to
accurately measure until the weather and season change.
3. It would seem to be very difficult to obtain a sDur road
or access from this property to the Baxter property without
serious damage to the marsh.
4. It is oUr belief that a recharge basin in conjunction
with or in place of the sand drain would better serve the needs
of this community and insure the health of the marsh area. It
would also facilitate drainage from Linden Avenue.
5. The location of a park and recreation area adjacent to
a functioning marsh would be of detrimental value.
If we may be of further assistance, please contact us.
/s/ Frank A. Kujawski, Jr.
Chairman
Planning Board '~ -8- April 17, 1978
Mr. Bear: Are those conditions and recommendations taken into
consideration?
Mr. Raynor: The spur road has been eliminated and, as you heard,
the recommendations from the town engineer, we have done away
with the proposed overflow pipe going into the wetlands and
doubled the capacity of the drainage area. Have you seen the
letter dated April 5 from Mr. Tuthill with regard to removing the
overflow pipe in the drainage area and enlarging the capacity of
the recharge area. You will get a copy of it. (Directed to the
developer).
Mr. Young: What does it mean if I get a copy?
Mrs. Tiedke: What is the comment from the Conservation Advisory
Council about the park and recreation area?
Mr. Raynor: They felt it was possible it would be detrimental to
the adjacent marsh.
Mrs. Tiedke: What kind of recreation is usual at these places?
Mr. Raynor: I would say the majority are fallow. Is there any-
one else present that has any questions? You do want to take up
this elimination of the overflow pipe. We want the capacity
doubled. Unless there is something else, I will declare this
hearing closed.
Mr. 01sen requested a final hearing on the map of "Col. Ted Dowd".
Mr. 01sen requested that an inspection be made of the Macari
subdivision as the stakes are in.
9:00 p.m. - Public Hearing on the question of the approval of the
final map of the subdivision "Brionngloid-by-the-Sea,, located at
East Marion. Charles Rand and William B. Smith present.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing and presented proofs
of publication in the Long Island Traveler-Watchman and the Suffolk
Times.
Mr. Wickham: I would like to comment that the last set of
courses and distances are for the south side of the highway and
also subject tO correction because they do not tie in.
Mr. Raynor went over the check list and the file.
Mr. Raynor: We have the following letter from the Town Highway
Committee.
Planning Board -9- April 17, 1978
Gentlemen:
The SoutholdTown Highway Committee has your letter of
4/4/78 in regard to the above major subdivision.
In view of your recommendation that the 50 foot require-
ments of our zoning ordinance, S-A 106-33 and S-A106-32, be
waived for this subdivision because the right-of-way is only 600
feet and only serves one lot the Highway Committee also agrees
to waive the 50 foot width requirement.
We urge your board to see that specifications are required
for these right-of-ways so that the property owners will have
suitable access to their homes when constructed and that proper
drainage is provided for.
s/Martin Surer, Highway Committee
s/James Homan, Highway Committee
Mr. Raynor: I would like to open this hearing to anyone present
this evening that would like to speak in opposition to this
subdivision "Brionngloid-by-the-Sea". Hearing none, is there
anyone present that would like to speak in favor of this sub-
division?
Mr. Rand: I think I have complied with the Planning Board and
Highway Committee.
Mr. Raynor: Is there anyone else here this evening that would
like to speak in favor of this subdivision? Is there anyene
present that has any information that should be brought before
the board at this time in regard to this subdivision. The only
thing I see is we will have to get some kind of specifications
from the town engineer regarding the right-of-way.
Mr. Wickham: We will ask him to specify.
Mr. Raynor: Does anyone else have anything in regard to this sub-
division? Hearing none, I will decl~re the hearing closed.
Kontokosta Associates. - Sea Breeze Village. Richard Lark, Esq.
and Mr. KontOkoSta. Mr. Lark explained this property is immediately
adjacent to the Sound Shore Motel complex on the North Road. It
is zoned multiple. It needs site plan approval by the Planning
Board and then must go to the Attorney General's office to be
used for condominiums. It has been presented to the Suffolk County
Dept. of Health. It is fed by the Greenport water supply but
approval must be gotten for the cesspools system. The Greenport~
sewer system is fUrther east and a ]~mm~ elevation and it was ~,~v
ruled out as a possible hookup. The Health Dept. now has the '~,~-~
application under advisement for the approval of the sanitary ~j~j~
facilities as laid out. Because of the curvature of the road,
it was decided to have one egress and ingress. The plan c~nforms
to all the rules and regulations with one exception which is the
separation between the buildings. It is not twice the height.
Planning Board -10- ' April 17, 1978
There is another problem that it is not 100 feet back from the
bluff line because there is virtually no bluff line. Me has
100 foot setback fram high water. In answer to what is the bluff
line, Mr. Wickham said the top of the bank. It was decided that
this matter would be discussed again after the board had time to
study it.
Richmond Shores at Pecon~c (Cummins). Richard Lark, Esq.
Mr. Lark presented a slightly revised sketch map of this property
and requested approval of it.
Mr. Wickham excused himself from the meeting at this point.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon; it was
RESOLVED to approve the preliminary map, said map amended
May 17, 1977, of subdivision known as "Peconic Bay Cove" owned
by Louis Zaino and Armando Sardelli located at Peconic, New York,
subject to "path" being relabelled "footpath", letter regarding
drainage being obtained from the Supt. of Highways and Suffolk
County Planning Department recommendations.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to give final approval to the map of the subdivision
known as "Kouros Acres" and authorize the chairman to sign the
map.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Ba.yview Woods at $outhold. A field trip will be arranged to
investigate thiS 'subdiVision.
Mr. Coyle made a motion, seconded by Mr. Wall and carried
to approve the minutes of the regular meetings of March 6, 1978
and March 27, 1978.
The next meeting of the Planning Board will be held May 15,
1978.
Planning Board - -11- April 17, 1978
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED to grant approval to the map of minor subdivision
of Joanne Schwartz subject to covenants and restrictions as to
no further subdivision being filed in the Suffolk County Clerk's
Office.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED to set 7:30 p.m., Monday, May 15, 1978 at the Town
Hall, Main Road, Southold, New York, as the time and place for
a public hearing on the question of the approval of the final
map of subdivision known as "Col. Ted Dowd"o
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Matthiessen property at Fishers Island. The lawyer for Mr.
Matthiessen visited with Mr. Wall. The main concerns of the
Planning Board are that Mr. Matthiessen not landlock himself
and that any remaining lot be 40,000 square feet. He is going
to give himself a 30 foot right-of-way across the lot to be
conveyed and the option on the remaining piece is no longer in
effect. This should be treated as a casual sale.
Mr. Franklin Bear who has been doing a study of the draft of
Plan for Development prepared by Mr. Wickham and commented on
by several organizations and individuals. He will present hi~
findings in the near future and requested a meeting with the
Board to discuss them.
Mr. Wickham returned at this point.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED tO approve the preliminary map dated July 20, 1977
subject to recommendations of the Suffolk County Planning Depart-
ment and the town engineer, Lawrence Tuthill, of Orient Hills.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Wickham, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Planning Board ~- -12- April 17, 1978
Grace R. Lewis Draft Environmental Impact Statement. John
Nickles, Mrs. Lewis' son appeared~ Mr. Nickles stated that there
are 200 some odd square feet rather than 600 some odd square feet
as listed in the Covering letter.of spartina alterniflora.
On motion made by Mr. Wickham, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
PGESOLVED that upon careful inspection of property of Grace
R. Lewis located at Petty's Pond, Southold, the Southold Town
Planning Board supports the application of Mrs. Lewis to bulkhead
the property. This is a cut bank and almost overhangs the spartina
alterniflora which has almost grown in and stabilized the bank.
It is entirely reasonable to bulkhead the property to replace the
deteriorating boat slip.
Vote of the Board: Ayes; Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
James Gray - Pddge Corporation. The following are the determinations
of the Southold TOwn Planning Board as regards the site plan of
property to be developed into shops on the Main Road, Southold.
The percolation through the bricks as planned, according to 'the
SDil and Water Conservation District, will be so minimal that the
Board would suggest drainage structures to take care of 100%
rainfall on the premises.
The Cochran house should be utilized as a residence up lmtil such
time as additional parking will be available and then presented to
this board for site plan approval.
Because of the reduction in size of one of the buildings as
originally shown and because of the overage on the buffering
and because the post office will not be used at the same hours
as the restaurant, it is believed by this board that 179 parking
slots will be adequate.
The entire board concurred on the above.
Soundwood FarM. A letter was read from Mr. Roderick Van Tuyl
regarding this subdivision. Mr. Wickham f~els the only practical
solution is a minor subdivision at the Sound. He direc.ted that
the town engineer review the system that Mr. Van Tuyl proposes.
A copy of the letter will be sent to the Board and to Mr. Lawrence
M. Tuthill, Engineer, for his perusal and study.
Richmond Shores at ?econic. The revised sketch of this cluster
sUbdiviSion was reviewed. The Board likes the concept. The
developer~should present the preliminary maps and sketch approval
will be forthcoming.
Planning Board - -13- - April 17, 1978
Mr. Raynor congratulated Mr. Wickham on having been named
to the Nassau-Suffolk Planning Commission.
Mr. Tuthill presented a report of a meeting he had with
Mr. Price regarding the Peter Blank subdivision.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon and
carried the meeting was adjourned at 10:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Muriel Brush, Secretary