HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/26/1978 P
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Southold, N.Y. 11971
JOHN WlCKHAM, Chairman
FRANK S. COYLE
HENRY E. RAYNOR, Jr.
FREDERICK E. GORDON
JAMES WALL
TELEPHONE
765- 1938
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was
held on Monday, June 26, 1978 at 7:30 p.m. at the Town Hall, Main
Road, Southold, New York 11971.
Present were:
Vice Chairman Henry E. Raynor, Jr.
Member Frederick E. Gordon
Member Frank S. Coyle
Member James Wall
Mrs. Millicent Gossner, League of Women Voters
Mr. Arthur Gossner
Mr. Franklin Bear, North Fork Environmental Council
Mr. Peter Campbell, The Suffolk Times
Mr. Lawrence Tuthill, Town Engineer 9:30 p.m.
Absent was:
Chairman John Wickham
7:30 p.m. Public Hearing on the question of the approval of
the preliminary map of the subdivision to be known as "Bayview Farm"
owned by Peter Blank, Jr. and Mary Louise Blank, located at Orient,
Town of Southold, New York. William Price, Jr. and Mr. Peter Blank,
Jr. appeared.
Mr. Raynor read the legal notice of hearing dated June 9, 1978 and
presented proof of publication from the Long Island Mattituck Traveler
Watchman commencing June 15, 1978 for one week. Mr. Raynor went over
the checklist, reviewed the sketch plan submitted to the Planning
Board May 18, 1978, covenants and restrictions, letter from the Super-
intendent of Highways approving the lay-out of the proposed roads and
drainage dated June 26, 1978, letter from the Suffolk County Planning
Depmrtment indicating the subject plat is not within their jurisdic-
tion, memorandum from Lawrence M. Tuthill, Town Engineer, letter from
the Highway Committee indicating the plat appears satisfactory, and
all other material in the subject file.
Mr. Raynor: As is the procedure of this board, if there is anyone
who would like to speak in opposition to this subdivision, the
hearing is opened. Hearing none, is there anyone who would like
to speak in favor of this subdivision?
William Price, Jr., Esq.: I am an attorney at law associated
with the firm of Irving L. Price, Jr., Esq., and am the attorney
for the applicant. I would like to bring to the board's attention
that the applicant has possible changes to the covenants and res-
trictions. Specifically, covenant I(a) we are considering amend-
ing that from a minimum living area of 1800 square feet to 1600
square feet, which is a little more than double your requirement.
Another amendment under covenant XI(h)2(e) in reference to the votes
necessary for the dedication of the road and back area to the Town
of Southold restricting the vote to two-thirds by the members of the
property owners association whose frontline abuts Old Farm Road in
the subdivision. We don't think they should have a vote against such
dedication.
Mr. Raynor: The criteria is based upon assessed valuation.
Mr. Coyle: 1.88 acres is adequate, and Mr. Van Tuyl considers per-
centage~wise.
Mr. Raynor: Hearing no opposition, I declare this hearing closed.
SEA BREEZE VILLAGE, Kontokosta Associates condominium units. Mr.
Emmanuel Kontokosta appeared.
Mr. Kontokosta: I am hear tonight to answer any questions that may
arise concerning my application.
Mr. Raynor: We have reviewed your site plan, with Local Law #3-1978,
which has just recently been adopted; and we have not had an oppor-
tunity to go over this project with regard to this law. We have been
in contact with the Suffolk County Planning Commission and the Town
Attorney regarding setback lines. This brings you up-to-date.
Mr. Kontokosta: I have had the opportunity to go down to the Suffolk
County Planning Commission, and I have certain information that might
be of concern regarding the setback.
Mr. Raynor: The Board and I are aware of it. Local Law #3 has just
been adopted this year. We want to be sure that we proceed properly.
Mr. Coyle: What about the sewer-lines projection by the Village of
Greenport?
Mr. Kontokosta: Study is being considered by the Suffolk County
Health Department. We find that it is quite an expensive project.
-3-
(Mr. Kontokosta, continued): The decision has not been made. The
proposition is still open. We are considering this, and also the
cost of going under County Road 27 and certain other factors. Hav-
ing to pay certain charges to the Nursing Home because I am under
the impression that the sewer lines belong to them. If we had to,
we could go either way.
Mr. Raynor: We would like you to come back to the Planning Board
on the 17th of July. Please contact the secretary for a time.
Copies of Local Law #3-1978 were distributed to the board.
C.E. ALLEN & PETER KREH. Mr. Allen and Mr. Kreh appeared. Mr.
McNulty appeared later in the meeting.
Mr. Raynor: We have reviewed the subdivision overlay (composite) maps
which your attorney has put together. Have you both gone over these
maps with your attorney?
Mr. Allen: Yes. Of course.
Mr. Raynor: Here is a letter dated January 16, 1978 from the Planning
Board secretary to Mr. McNulty explaining January 10, 1978 board meet-
ing minutes with reference to an opinion from the Town Attorney about
a major subdivision and involvement of a 50-foot common right-of-way
and straightening out of the right-of-way. The recommendations of the
Suffolk County Health Department as to completing test holes and wells
on both properties should be adopted. There is a question regarding
property. Would you gentlemen please come before the board? (Pause)
I see you have established consolidation of Lot #1. As indicated all
remaining lots are above 40,000 square feet; there is a 50-foot
right-of-way as required. This particular piece of property (refer-
ring to lot east of the subject 50-foot right-of-way) is left uunum-
bered. There is a question of ownership.
Mr. Allen: It is owned by Peconic Sands Inc. It is not owned by me,
it is owned by an independent corporation. Some time ago, I trans-
ferred ownership to a close relative.
Mr. Raynor: You gentlemen have no interest in this piece of property?
Mr. Allen: Yes, but it does not involve this.
Mr. Raynor: Is there 40,000 square feet?
Mr. Allen: Yes, way over. Almost 50,000.
Mr. Raynor: Is there a reason it is not included in this subdivision?
Mr. Allen: Because I transferred it to a close relative--but my
children, well, at the time that you were determined that you were
going to include my house lot in the subdivided property. There
would be a lot of legal expense. If my previously surveyed lot
would have to be included in the subdivision.
Mr. Raynor: It is an open piece of property. Wouldn't it be good
business to include it in your subdivision?
Mr. Allen: There is no need for that now.
Mr. Raynor: It is not proper to hold off a piece of property.
This appears the case as you have transferred it out.
Mr. Kreh: A minor subdivision would take at least four lots.
Mr. Allen: I agreed to cut this down to three here.
me when you decided to include my original homestead.
ed to include -- and I accepted it.
You surprised
You all elect-
Mr. Coyle: The reason we did that was because your name was on the
subdivision and anything that is part owner is to be made as such.
(Mr. McNulty appears at the meeting.)
Mr. McNulty: That parcel belongs to some other entity. A corporation
owns that. He owns the other three.
Mr. Raynor: He said that he transferred out.
Mr. McNulty. I don't know whether it was transferred. It must have
been years ago. That was a separate thing.
Mr. Raynor: This has always been a separate parcel? That isn't my
idea. Outside of resolving this, the map reads Ok. As long as it
is in excess of 40,000 square feet, we can include it as it is over
the requirement.
Mr. Coyle: What it seems is we are not working on a completed map.
Mr. Raynor: Counsel has presented map dated December 13, 1976
indicating parcel in question 67,750 square feet. Surveyed by
Roderick Van Tuyl, P.C. December 13, 1976.
Mr. Gordon: Lot #4 will eliminate any questions.
Mr. Allen: Ok.
RICHMOND SHORES. No one appeared. The following comments were made:
Mr. RaYnOr: We are still awaiting a planting schedule.
Howard Young: What is a planting schedule? It should have been
--5-- -
shown on the map.
The Board reviewed the maps and requested a proper planting schedule.
On Motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED to approve the cluster subdivision subject to planting
schedule approval.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall.
PARADISE BY THE SOUND. Frederick J. Ziems,Esq. and Howard Young
appeared. The following comments were made:
Mr. Raynor: We are waiting as of today for a signed contract from
the Village of Greenport.
Mr. Ziems: That is on the water? The other things that were missing
on the 5th were the recommendations of Larry Tuthill with regard to
approving the fire hydrant.
Mr. Raynor: Right. If is my understanding that he and the Village
of Greenport have discussed this.
Mr. Ziems: We signed the contract awhile ago. What about the bond
for road improvements?
Mr. Raynor: This has not been set. Aga~it is between the Town ~
and Village Engineers. One inch verses~.l/4~inch piping. That's s~/~
outside our area, domestic water flow ah~o on. I cannot give you J~?~
an answer on something we don't know. ~?~
Mr. Ziems: And a fire hydrant?
Mr. Raynor: This was included because we spoke to James Monsell,
and I cannot speak for the Villagm, of Greenport. We need approval
from the Town Engineer~on the preliminary map in order to be sent
to the Suffolk County Planning Commission. All we can do is have
the Board send him another letter requesting it.
Mr. Coyle:
you up?
Do you know whether the Village of Greenport is holding
Mr. Ziems: I don't kngw how that affects this matter at all. The
Town Engineer could have come up with a bond schedule. I was under
the impression that it was going to be done on the June 5th meeting.
Mr. Raynor: We would have to have a final agreement as part of our
submission to the County. We will forward a letter about the bond
to see if we can expedite it, and in two days or so should have an
answer.
Mr. Ziems: We have contracted separately with the Village of Green-
port. It has no mention of a bond. All we are waiting for is of
the Town Engineer.
Mr. Raynor: The Planning Board is waiting for the contract.
SOUTHOLD GARDENS. Howard Young submitted six prints of preliminary
subdivision map as amended to show proposed vertical sand drain
between Lots #2 and #3 adjacent to Hill Road West.
On Motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to approve the Minutes of the Planning Board Meeting
held June 5, 1978.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall.
FISHER ESTATE - minor subdivision drainage problem. No one appeared.
Mr. Raynor made the following comments: The Highway Superintendent
has inspected same, and they will come to a conclusion in the near
future. Soil and Conservation Foundation will forward correspondence
regarding this subdivision.
On Motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded bY Mr. Coyle, it was
RESOLVED that an informal meeting be held Wednesday, June 28,
1978 at 9:00 a.m., leaving from Brauns' Oyster Co. and thereafter
visiting the subdivision sites, with the Planning Board and the
Southold Town Highway Committee regarding Oregon View Estates roads
and Laurel Country Estates.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Gordon, Wall, Coyle, Raynor.
On Motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
is
RESOLVED that the next regular meeting of the Planning Board
set for July 17th.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall.
BAYVIEW WOODS. Howard Young appeared. The following comments were
made:
Mr. Raynor: You have not received recommendation by engineer?
Howard Young: I have not.
Mr. Raynor reviewed Town Engineer Report and surveys. Comments by
the Town Engineer were read by Mr. Raynor as follows:
That there be a road to the east to the existing town
road, North Bayview Road, on either side of the Gagen
property to eliminate the superblock. (Compliance is
proposed.)
2. That the park and playground has not sufficient usable
area and connected to a future playground area.
3. That there is another area nears Lots #30 and #29 more
suitable for the recharge basin.
As it exists, there seems to have been,at the 8 to l0 foot contour,
water in the proposed park and playground area. Another suggestion
is Lot #3.
Mr. Young: There is adequate lot layout; what is the difference?
What is the difference where it is located as long as it meets
requirements.
Mr. Raynor: Would you send us a letter explaining your reasons for
not wanting another recharge basin as Lots #30 or #29 instead of as
indicated?
Mr. Raynor hands Mr. Young a copy of the Town Engineer Report and
Mr. Young acknowledges same.
WALTER GATZ Cluster Subdivision. Mr. Walter Gatz and Howard Young
appeared. Mr. Raynor and the board members reviewed the file, noting
sketch plan approval, letter to Cluster Review Committee which Plan-
ning Board has reviewed also.
An objection was made by Mr. Raynor regarding southerly side of en-
trances. Grading should be revised to give excellent visibility.
Planning Board members reviewed old and new sketch plans.
Mr. Raynor: The Highway Committee may ask the road be extended to
the property line.
Mr. Young: Topography is the reason why we did it this way.
all the way would be nothing but hazardous to people.
Going
Mr. Raynor: If you can get a waiver from the Highway Superintendent
and Highway Committee, it would be no problem. But it is their
usual procedure to go all the way.
Mr. Young: How does the Planning Board feel about this?
Mr. Raynor: Lines should be shown in case at some future date it
is dedicated.
Mr. Young: Due to the topography, a road would be a problem.
Mr. Raynor: The rest of the right-of-way may be needed in the
future for safety for the westerly side of the cluster. The one
foot is needed to satisfy.
Mr. Young: The one foot of property is being handled by Mr. Lark
for its dissolution of Mr. McNulty's clients.
Mr. Raynor: Until you have fee title, the Planning Board cannot
approve it. Also, park and playground area labeling is required.
Mr. Young: That should be resolved soon.
Mr. Raynor: Lot #7 -- there are restrictions on access only on
this road. No. 7's driveway should come off of right-of-way instead
of Soundview Avenue.
Mr. Young: We will submit more plans.
Mr. Gordon: And for deed settlement.
WILLIAM SCHRIEVERCluster Subdivision. Mr. Schriever was present
and the following comments were made:
Mr. Schriever: I assume that you have received or are aware of the
Town Board approving the exchange of property for the sump?
Mr. Raynor: Yes. We are waiting, and we haven't received a copy
of the resolution before the Board; and I understand that we will
be receiving a copy soon and that it has been approved.
Mr. Schriever: Now, I would like to get sketch plan approval of
the map and the outline I think~Town defined, and the exchanges
having been made, and the business zone, upzoning; I don't believe
there will be any opposition to that. Certainly every other possi-
bility has been explored there, and that was always opposed no
matter what I wanted to do. Proposing the widening of the street
was rejected, the proposal to zone the other side of the street
was rejected, and so forth. So I don't see any other logical step
to take to dispose of this area, and I have given you a copy of
the application which I propose to make, and as soon as this sketch
plan approval is given, we can ....
Mr. Raynor: We talked this afternoon, subsequent to the call to the
Town Attorney with regard to this property, and it is his recommenda-
tion at this point that the Board wait until you get an answer with
regard to your upzoning.
Mr. Schriever: Do you realise how long that's going to be? I
cannot afford that, and I held off this thing, and I originally
was going to apply for a variance and was told that they, that
they would rush this thing through, that it was to do as a zoning
application, and I've been trying to please everybody and apparently
in doing so I have pleased nobody.
Mr. Raynor: As I understand, you have already made application?
Mr. Schriever: I have not filed the application.
Mr. Raynor: You have not filed the application.
Mr. Schriever: I have not filed it. I have been, I could have
filed it in January, but I didn't want to, I wanted to have the
map defined so that I'd have justification to set the boundaries
for the upzoning. And, you know, I don't see that the zoning has
any problem at all.
Mr. Raynor: Do you want to eliminate for the board the area you
want to upzone?
Mr. Schriever: It is not clear. If you go to town officials and
say, "What is business," they cannot define the business zone ex-
cept as scratch marks on the map so that I in making the applica-
tion, I think that you would let me here, but I gave a copy to
Muriel in my application; and the map, and what I did I called
this the business zone.
Mr. Raynor: In other words, the existing business comes down to
here, inclusive of Lots #7, #8 and #9?
Mr. Schriever: Right, but not all of #9, part of it.
Mr. Raynor: Part of it.
Mr. Schriever: And I said to upzone this piece plus all other
property which shall be determined is in the business, it is west
of this line behind that lot.
Mr. Raynor: Which would include anything up here if they thought
that was needed?
Mr. Schriever: You see, you've got a little map scale that is so
small, if you put a ruler on there then you can say, "Well maybe it's
200 feet back or maybe 300 feet back," You don't know how far it
goes this way. So the application says, you know, whatever is there
I want to dispose of, and I don't know of any other way to do it.
Mr. Raynor: The only thing that our board can do is to go back and
discuss it with the Town Attorney. And I don't know if you have
any other input.
Mr. Schriever: Well, yes, there was one commen~ I think I made
the comment before. What I would like to do would be to proceed
with the subdivision and, you know, let this problem be resolved
simultaneously. This problem with the business. I think that this
has been approved for clustering, this has been approved for cluster-
ing, you know; I don't believe there are any technical problems
except those in the County. Now as I understand it I can't go to
the County until I get sketch plan approval. If I don't get that
approval, you know, I'm gonna be another year, and I've been five
years on this damned thingwalready, and I've just got to get myself
out of this.
Mr. Raynor: All right, the only thing we can do is to discuss it
with him again and see what the Town Attorney's determination may
be with regard to thi~ problem; and we will proceed further for you.
Mr. Schriever: What I am requesting basically is permission to
proceed with the subdivision subject to whatever action is taken
here. If, in fact, this is denied, then as far as the subdivision
is concerned, these would remain unsalable lots for residential
purposes. And that would just be business zoned. It's either that
or I'll take you to Court and you know I'll get it out.
Mr. Raynor: That would also change the property lines, if that the
case.
Mr. Schriever: Well that's true, but I mean the property is there,
and I own it. I mean, there's no question about whether I have the
right to make the application, and it's my understanding they
basically agree that this is an acceptable application, and nobody
can tell in advance what the action is gonna be, but presumably
that would be upzoned. So during the course that this thing is
running along, getting the County approvals, getting you know all
the other procedures going, this action could be taking place.
Mr. Coyle: Have you taken any part of Lots 6, 7 and 8 at all,
officially?
Mr. Schriever: No.
Mr. Raynor: That's a result of the application for a change of zone.
Mr. Schriever: I wanted to have the Planning Board basic approval
for a layout before I filed the applications. I have to justify the
lines that I am setting for the application.
Mr.Raynor: On the basis of what you have given us tonight, we will
go back and discuss it with the Town Attorney.
COUNTRY CLUB ESTATES. Gary Olsen, Esq., Dick Frisbee and Philip
Babcock appeared.
The board members and Mr. Olsen and Mr. Babcock reviewed the layout.
Mr. Olsen: We want to run a split rail fence down Moore's Lane
basically and when it gets to the end to put the fence to the other
end of the court.
Mr. Babcock: We don't want to put these gates on because the road is
so wide; it looks useless but across the street they have a white
country, horse-type plan and we were thinking to keep with that and
then to use a natural rail fence here set back from the road and in
back of that place all your trees and all your shrubs along in here.
And then hold this back six feet off the edge of the road so you'll
have one line going in and coming out. That's basically what heTs
showing on this drawing.
Mr. Raynor: In that sense, that's what the building inspector has
provided. There are two stipulations: (1) he will waive this 8' post
fence and may be willing to go along with the excess height. The
other stipulation is the front of the fencing, it csnnot become any
part of the highway. It must be retained on the private lots.
Mr. Babcock: We told him that when we got the permits.
Mr. Gordon: I think that's why they changed the scale to this size.
Mr. Babcock: Well, that's why I say when Frank drew this up, Frank
Chic, you see, he doesn't know as much about it as, I shouldn't say
that, he might have due cognizance in that and that will stay back
from the road.
Mr. Raynor: All right, as long as it is maintained on the private
property.
Mr. Gordon: The only other thing you mentioned was the fact that,
and I don't know how it came about, you had mentioned about mowing
the area of the drain and it was under the opinion that you wanted to
grass it. Is that so?
Mr. Babcock: We would like the grass from the road.
The Board and Mr. Babcock and Mr. Olsen reviewed the vertical sand
drain area on the proposed planting plan.
Mr. Babcock: Yes, this area will be grass (indicating area outside
sand) Something will grow in there.
Mr. Gordon: Should be sand (indicating drain area).
-12-
Mr. Raynor: Stabilized banking with rmgard to the Seil and Water
Conservation engineering and providing this will remain sand.
Mr. Babcock: Right, but you won't be able to avoid something growing
in there and I assume if it should grow, we would cut it down or remove
them. That's what we meant. This will all be in grass.
Mr. Raynor: Anything designated inside the vertical sand drain and
that it will be all sand.
Mr. 01sen: Otherwise you approve the drainage as per Young & Young's
plans of June l, 1978.
Mr. Babcock: You have a stipulation here like, I don't know how it
started out with, but all you want to do is have an attractive, most
attractive setup here as you can and I think the way to do that is to
put all this, as much as you can, in grass. It costs a little dough
to do it but it sure looks nice.
Mr. Raynor: The only thing that we are concerned about is that this
remain sand and the outside be grass.
Mr. Babcock: That doesn't make an effect at all.
Mr. Raynor: And the one on six grade, you won't find any problem in
mowing it.
Mr. 01sen: Has anything been sent up to the Suffolk County Planning
Commission? I think you gave final approval subject to its going to
the Suffolk County Planning Commission.
Mr. Raynor: It has not gone out. We are going to take care of
that. Do you gentlemen have anything else for us this evening.
Mr. Babcock: We would like to say only one thing that I know of and
that is with regard to your bond. We've got pretty nearly most of
the grading done but an exception of I don't know how far they have
gone with this. I hope that the work that has been done will be taken
into consideration when your bond has been prepared.
Mr. Raynor: He ~s the standard procedure that he follows with
regard to it, his inspections, his inspection fees, bonding and so
forth.
Mr. Frisbee: Did you get a chance to look at the tree plan and
would yeu have any thoughts?
Mr. Raynor: I did.
Mr. Babcock: I know the only one I had I gave it to them.
Mr. Raynor: Them, it's in our file. I had a chance to look at it
this morning but I'd like to go over a few points.
Mr. Babcock: Is there anything you do not want us to do that you can
tell us now because we have about eighty trees sitting out, ready to go
in and we don't want to hold them too long.
-13-
Mr. Raynor: Call tomorrow and get an answer.
Mr. Babcock: We are not staying with one type of tree deliberately.
All of these we plan to keep in back of the fence and the fence back
on the private property. They grow well. It is a nice tree.
Mr. Bear asked a question about the final approval.
Mr. Raynor: No final approval has been given. The engineer has been
out inspecting constantly. When he has preliminary approval, he can
go ahead and start planning the roads. It is still subject to the
engineer's inspection. And we have letters in the file with regard ~
to preliminary approvals.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
RESOLVED to grant final approval of the preliminary sand drain
as showu on Young & Young grading plan of May 26, 1978, Country Club Estates.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED to approve the site plan with fence for the subdivision
known as ,'Country Club Estates".
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to request a bond estimate from Lawrence Tuthill for
the roads and improvements in the subdivision known as "Country
Club Estates".
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Coyle and Mr.
Wall, it was
RESOLVED to approve the site plan and tree planting for the
subdivision known as "Country Club Estates".
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Mr. Tuthill was at the meeting at this time and was requested
to prepare bond estimates for the subdivisions "Paradise-by-the-Sound"
and "Country Club Estates".
-14-
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED to adjourn the meeting until the 17th day of July,
1978.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Linda F. Kowalski, Secretary
Henry E.ORaynor, J~.~ Vice~hairman