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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-10/25/1972Southold Town Planmng Board SFIUTHrlLD~ L. I., N. Y. 11971 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS John Wickham, Chairman Henry Molsa Alfred Grebe Henry Raynor Frank Coyle MINUTES SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD October 25, 1972 A_ regular meeting of the Southold Town Ptann~ing Board!was held at 7:30 p.m., Wednesday, October 25, 1972, ~at the Town Office, Main Road, Southold, New York. There were present: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry Moisa, ViCe Chairman; Henry Raynor; Frank Coyle; Alfred Grebe. Also present: Howard Terry, Building Inspector. Mr. Brian Murphy appeared before the Board and p ~ :en of water in Ds~mar Drive, Laurel and~ copy ofaa letter sent to the Town Board on behalf of the Laurel Country Estates Property Owners Association. The letter states as follows: Southold Town Planning Board - 2 - October 25, 1972 "Gentlemen: WE wish to bring to your attention a situat&on which exists on Delmar Drive, Laurel Country Estates, Laurel, N.Y. During each heavy rain lakes form in the street due to inadequate drainage facilities. On Oct. 7 li972, a lake formed about 1000 feet North of Peconic Bay Blvd. It was approximately 400 ft. long, 5~0 ft. wide and 2-3 ft. deep. The owner sent two men with a pump in an attempt to make the road passable, however, the residents were f~rced to use the farm road on the west side of the subdivision in order to reach Peconic Bay Blvd. The access to this farm road has since been blocked. At present there are two families with new born babies and one family where the owner suffers from a severe heart condition, who would be trapped if an emergency occured during one of these st6rms. There are two or three other places on the street where the same situation occurs. We are aware that the owner of the road is presently a~tempting to secure release of his bond and dedicate the road to the town. We urge the Town Boardland the Planning Board to deny this request until such time as the inadequate drainage situation is corrected. It would be a dis-service to the taxpayers of Southold Town to take over this road in its present condition and use tax money to correct it. This letter is be~Rg written on behalf of the Laurel Country Estates Property Owners Association. Your co-operation and assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Mr. ~ickham told Mr. Murphy that there is simply no question about the Town Board being willing to accePt dedication of this road under the present conditions. They Will not do it. As far as releasing the bond this probably can be held up. I am not quite so sure on this because when all of the r~quirements of the Town Engineer have been met, the Planning Board cannot hold up. the bond unduly. There is some reason to believe they have not met Southold Town Planning Board - 3 - October 25, 1972 the specifications. Mr. Raynor said we are going to check into it with the engineer to make sure everything has been installed. The problem becomes a legal-one as far as the bond is concerned. We will be giving our opinion when the bond comes up for release. The bond is for three years and it has not come to maturity. Mr~ Wikkham said we can assure you we are not about to recommend release of the bond until this is corrected. Mr. Murphy said the Board could have the pictures for their file, and thanked the Board for their help. Mr. John Amato from Colgate Design Corp. appeared before the Board and presented, site plans and building plans for a 7-11 Store to be built in Cutchog~e. Mr. Terry said the prQperty is 135~feet wide so it does not have to have side yard variance. It will be a 40'x 60' building and they have room ~for 17 cars parking. One side or the other should be a passage to the rear. Mr. Amato said they don't make delivery from the back, it is just an exit. door. We could provide a gate. The Board reviewed the.site plans of the construction. Mr. Coyle asked abo~t test hole data. Mr~ Wickham said the Board will have to go over this fairly carefully. We have been having some trouble with some others. Mr. Amato said he would leave the plans with the Board. The Building is next to the Shell Service Station. Mr. Amato said he would be glad to supply any further information the Board might need. Mr~ Kroehler presented final maps for Lands End Subdivision at Orient Point with approvals of the Departments of~Health and Environmental Control. Mr. Terry said we are.about ready to ~fer this to the County for final approval and set up a hearing. Mr. Wickham said he did not see any catch basins on the map. They have to show on the final map. On motion of Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr~ Raynor, it was RESOLVED that all engineers a~d surveyors doing Southold Town Planning Board - 4 - October 25, 1972 business with the Town be notified that the Planning Board is requesting that on all subdivision maps, site plans and profile plans presented to the Planning Board the location of catch basins and leaching basins must be shown on all final maps. Also it is requested tha% a legend be shown on profile and final maps indicating the size 6f the catch basins and leaching basins. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs: Wickham, Moisa, Raynor, Coyle, Grebe. A copy of the bond estimate prepared by Lawrence Tuthill will be sent to Lands End Realty.. Mr. K~oehler said they intend to start working on the roads. Mr. Moisa said you can start working on the roads; the layoutshas been approved. Mr. Wickham said'~we have to get the catch basins straightened out. Mr~ Terry said he-would call Van Tuyl and check on it. The Superintendent of Highways has our copy of the profile map. Mr~ickham said it would take three to six weeks for the hearing to be set up. Mr. Kroehler asked if he had to.produce the bond at that time. Mr. Wickham told him he can have an approval subject to filing of the bond. It won't be signed or filed. When you give the bond' to the Town Board they will send us a letter. William!E~seks, Esq., presented a preliminary map for D~n~dlA'~i~Dsnnis, Matti%uck~' Mr~-Wickham s~i~a% the,ilast?me~ We werelalso discussing park a~d play ground requirements. ~i~S~saidthey wan% to build a house on ore lot and are going to put a mortgage on it. Mri. Wickham said~n6rmally we d~n't allow this until we~ha~e given preliminary approval. Once you have youriPreliminary Planiwe will allow one house on the subdiVision. Mr. Esseks said the house is going to be in Mr. ~D~nnis' nam~ 'a~d %he property is in Mr~ Dennis' name. Mr. Wickham said we will have to discuss this with the Town Attorney. You will have to present a preliminary plan for approval, with provision for park and playground or for drainage. Southold Town Planning Board - 5 - October 25, 1972 Mr. Esseks also presented a proposal for cond6minium housing in Southold. He said his client was Metrohouse Associates and showed the Board pictures of condominiums built by them. Mr. Esseks said he knows~they have to go before the Town Board and get permission and get permission from the Planning Board. We will have to put in a sewer plant. The original investors can't do it because they can't~afford a sewer plant. I have discussed low density condominiums, one or two bedrooms. If I get an indication from you that~you will consider it I will go ahead with further plans. It will be 88 to 100 units ~on 122 acres. We will build w~at you approve. The site is near Town public water, near the railroad. Mr. Wickham said that you know that the Town Board approved a change of zone for garden apartments. Mr~ Esseks saidlthese he proposes will not be year round. Mr. Wickham said the Planning Board held a series of informational meetings for the amendments to the Zoning Ordinance. We said then we felt that.there should be more "M" District type houSing in Southold, Mattituck and adjacent to Greenport~ We talked about one area of this type adjacent to each one of these villages. This was accepted by the people at the informational hearings. There is one approved in Southold now. Mr. Esseks said you have to have public water. .It is only available in Greenport or Southold. This is an alternative to tract development. Mr. Wickham said he thought that the Planning Board would be unwise to say anything at this time. You have to have the zone changed. The Town Board will refer this to us for our recommendations for or against and I would be very unwilling to complicate my position saying we are for or against. We will want to look at it and make some suggestions. Mr~ Raynor said we have one change of zone but no buildings have gone up on it. Mr. Wiekham said this has to go to the Attorney General. It will take possibly two years. Mr~ Esseks said we will think about it and if we go ahead we will make a petition to the Town Board for a change of zone. Russell Case appeared before the Board in reference to a prgposed-subdivisionlof his property in Cutchogue. He: presented~a breakdown of costs for putting in improve- men%s, There are 40 acres and he proposes approximately 35 lots. Mr~ Case said they can't continue to pay taxes on the land if the income is not there. He figured a Southold Town Planning Board - 6 - October 25, 1972 cost of $10,400 for each lot and a selling price of $15~000 to make a profit. The roads are the biggest item Of cost. Mr. Case said he realized the Town has some requirements but he thought the situation was good for drainage and possibly the road requirements could be a little less. Mr. Moisa said we canJt tell you what to do. Mr~ Wickham said every subdivision of land between a large family goes through the same thin, land usually you do divide up into smaller lots and then they buy and sell back and forth to get it up to equitable size. The rumor has it you got a very fancy price from one who built near the golf course and sometimes this does more harm than good and it sets their sights entirely too high. Mr. Case said this eliminates having to divide the property up five ways. We could keep up on this level of development with houses on the same sCale. Mr. Coyle asked him what he wants the Board to do~ Mr. Case ~aid he thought a road could be built for a lot less. Mr. Coyle said the Highway Specifications are set by the Town. Mr. Wickham said the Town has rules and we have no alternative. Mr. Case said maybe this can be changed. Mr. Wickham said that the~Board has just spent one half hour with a .person from a property owners association ~ith 2 1/2 feet of water over the highway in the subdivision. We are not going to back off on the requirements. Mr. Case asked what cluster housing requires. Mr. Wickham told him we have no regulations for cluster housing. You have to submit plans which have to be shown to the Town Board. We would be gl. ad to do this for you. Mr. Case said we may have to divide this up with each one owning four or five separate parcels. What I am trying to do is get an overall plan. If you have any suggestions I would be glad to have them. Mr. Raynor asked him to leave a copy of the map with the R~ard. Mr. Case said he would have another copy made up and will leave it with Mr. Terry. Lefferts P. Edson, Esq., appeared before the Board with Messrs. Gene Haberman of Francisco and. Jacobis and Joseph J. Donovan=of Equitable Federal Savings and Loan Association in regard to a proposed major subdivision in East Marion. Mr. Haberman presented a propoSed preliminary Southold Town Planning Board - 7 - October 25, 1972 layout for the subdivision. He said they had met with the Superintendent of Highways to discuss the roads. Mr. Dean indicated this would be acceptable to the Highway Department. Mr. Raynor asked if Mr. Dean indicated he wo~ld maintain the center of the cul de sacs~ Mr. Donovan said at the present time they are thinking of maintaining the roads as private roads. Mr~ Wickham said he did not think the cul de sacs will work in these circumstances because you need 100 foot turnarounds for each road. Mr. Terry said it is 100 feet at the building line for lots on a cul de sac. Mr. Donovan said the 20,000 square foot lots on the Sound bluff have 100 feet at the building line. Mr. Wickham asked about the setback on the bluff. Mr. Donovan said they originally worked with a 1925 survey. There has been remarkably little ~h~ge in the bluff since then. Mr. Wickham said he was talking about the position of the bluff. I feel that yQu can't afford to take the chance of having a home owner have their ~front yard disappear. Mr. Donovan said the information they have available shows ther~ has been very little change in 47 years. We don't want to disturb the growth that holds the bluff together. Mr. Wickham asked how high the bluff was and Mr. Haberman said about 50 feet. Mr. Wickham said he would also be interested in knowing what absolute figures you have, where monuments were put at the top of the bank. Mr. Wickh~m said he has been Chairman of the Suffolk County Soil and Water Conservation District for, quite a fe~ years. You would be surprised at the number of requests we have to stud~ situations where the home owners ~0~Se~is'~oV~rhang~ng ~he~ban~. The Town o~,SO~thold is n©t~.going ,~o let things get in a p0sit~0n LUke the Town t~e Town requirements for front yard setbacks we are going to establish a rear yard setback whiCh will be more ~trict thaR ~hs 'T6Wn requirements. Mr. Wickham said he thought they will have to move the cul de sacs back~ Mr. Haberman said he would like to base that on the Army Corps of Engineers report. Mr. Wickham suggested that he get in touch with Larry Tuthill. H~e has made a study of beach erosion for private individuals in the Town and has quite a few references. Mr. Donovan said they will look into it. Mr. Terry said along the Sound bluff you Southold Town Planning Board October 25, 1972 get er$ion at the tow, Mr. Haberman presented the Board a list of questions ( some of which were answered previously ): Question No. 1: Is general road layout acceptable? Mr. Raynor said he would suggest running a road a~ong the bluff. Mr. Coyle said the road in Aqua View Park is an example of~this. Mr. Wickham said the Superintendent of Highways and the Town Board say you have to have a 100 foot turnaround. Questions No. 2 and 3: 50' R.O.W. used throughout. Is 120' diameter turn around with island O.K.? Mr. Donovan said they had reserved an easement f~r a walking path. The path is wooded and would be 30 feet wide. Mr. Wickham~asked who is going to hold title to the easements. Mr. Donovan said the property owner would. It would be a deed restriction. Mr. Wickham said the map shows approximately three acres of open space. What is happening is that some developers feel that the ToWn will not accept dedication of these and they don't want to upkeep them so they let them go for tax sale.~ We are going to lower the boom on .these things. They have been doing it with roads too. We strongly advocate a propsrty owners association. We will insist on it sooner or later. Mr. Moisa sai~ they may have ~o find a different area. for these open spaces because you will need drainage. Mr. Haberman said they a~e flexible. Mr~ WiCkham said depending on what your elevations are there is a good method of disposing of storm water called the Pasqua~e method. Mr. Haberman said he would look into this method. Mr. Wickham said it has not been used in the Town because we don~t have sufficient elevation. Mrs. Donovan asked what is the water table assuming an elevation of 40 to 50 feet. Mr. Wickham said about 3 or 4 feet ground water elevation at that ~point. Question No. 5: Is location of Sewage Plant and leaching pits O.K.? Mr. Moisa said you might have an objection from the Village of Greenport. At some future time municiple sewers might be ~oser to the road. Mr. Donovan said there would be a right of way. w~hin each section along the Sound bluff for the use of the Southold Town Planning Board October 25, 1972 property owners in. that Section only. Mr. Haberman said a similar approach has worked successfully in Sea Pines. It is used for an overlook, not as beach access. Mr. Raynor asked if they were proposing to plant a. green strip along the Main ~oad. Mr. Haberman said they would plant it. Mr. Terry said they have to make an application to the State for connection to the State Road. Mr. Raynor asked if they had given any thought to the north-south road. Mr. Donovan said the first sketch was quite a curved linear approach~ We are studying putting a bump in the road in terms of a curve. We will have this on the sketch plan. Mr. W~kham asked how many lots were proposed. Mr. Haberman said between 250 and 275 lots on 163.26 acres. About three acres are park and playg~Qund. Mr. Raynor said the Planning Board will talk to the Superintendent of Highways about this. Mr. Donovan said after they talked to the Superintendent of Highways they think they would meet his requirements. It is not an official submission. Mr. Wickham said we have a Master Plan showing a proposed~high~ay along the Sound and we might want this~spur a little higher up toward the Sound. Mr. Donovan said they would like to cmme in with a preliminary as soon as possible. Mr. Haberman and Mr. Donovan thanked the Board for their help and left. The Board discussed with Lefferts P. Edson, Esqv, thee roads in Hig~hwood Subdivision. Mr. Sch~iever had called the Superintendent of Highways ~ecau~e he was not sure what specifications were to be followed. Mr. Wickham said the highway specifications are for 1968. That was prior to the amendments put on the 1968 specifi- cations. Mr~ Edson said Mr. SChriever has these specifications. Mr. Wickham said he is susposed to be bonded for'those specifications. Mr. Terry Said the specs caq~ for a one on two grade either way from the curb. Mr. Edson said he would come in with Mr. $chriever tomorrow and check with Mr. Terry. Mr. Ernest Radford appeared before the Board in regard to Regens International Corp. proposed minor subdivision at Gull Pond Road, Greenport. Mr. Wickham Southold Town Planning Board - 10 - October 25, 1972 said we have a problem in that the Planning Board will not aaeept a minor subdivision of four or less lots which is contigious to other~property in the same name and you have R~gens International Corp. as the name of the d~veloPer 0f the minor subdivision and also holding a relatively large tract adjacent to it. Mr. Radford said ~hat some 18 acres of this tract are not usable. The Carporation buying this wanted to get a subdivision set up. Mr. Coyle asked if the adjoining property owner Mr. Raynor, has a right over their proposed right of way. Mr. R~dford said no, it is only for access to their two lots. Mr. Radford also said there is no access to the water on FOrdham Acres. Mr. Wickham said he doubted the PLanning Board would accept a subdivision without access to the water. Mr. Terry brought out the maps of ~Fo~dham Acres. The access to Gull Pond was on the Preliminary map only. Mr. Wickham said we won't permit a minor.suDdiwision when the same owner has adjoining pr0pe~ty, iMr~ R~dford said ~ere is a~ existing road and in the past property owners have been able to sell of~ proper~ on an existing road. Mr. Wickham asked if they wo~ld want to put a negative easement on it. Mrs. R~for~~ said that there is 17 acres o~f land that w~uldlbe ~estionable. Mrs. Raynor said you can file th~ whole ~ap and create a Section 1 and Section 2 as a.~ajor subdivision. Mr. Radford asked if they would requi~ curbing in.the four lots. Mr~ Wickham said we wo~ld allow you a r~ght of way in a minor subdivision wh!ich,we W~uid not aiiow in a major. The owner of the property c~n sell a.piece of land to somebody else and th~n Within another four to seven yearsshe can sell another Piece of land, not year after yea~ thouqh~ He can ~ake an occasional Sale. If this ~roUnd settles Mr. Wfckham s~id we will not accept it as it is because o~ our past ~is~ory of d~fficutty. He can sell the whole piece of land as an occasional sale or he can tie up the land which you say is not buildable at the pre'sent time for a period of years so we know 'it won't be built upon, or put in a major subdivision and say this is Section 1. Mr. Raynor said the curbs would be at the discretion of the Superintendent o~ ~ighways. Mr. Ra~'ord said he would check with his clients. Southold Town Planning Board - 11 - October 25, 1972 George Ahlers presented a map of property at Orient owned by Leon~Marcus. Mr. Marcus wants to sell one acre to someone else. Mr. Wickham said the same preperty owner owns adjoining property and you are talking about two lots. Mrs. Marcus said they have no intention of S~ividing this property. Mr. Wickham said sometimes there is an accident or a divorce and the property is on the market. The Heirs have to dispose of iK. Mr. Ahlers said there are 19 acres and their house will be in the center of the parcel of three acres. Mr. Terry said you have to have approval of access from the Board of Appeals. Mrs. Marcus said they don't want to make a subdivision because they don't want to develop it. Mr. Wickham said you could build one house on it. Anyone can sell of a chunk of land if it is an occasional sale. When you say you want to sell off a chunk of land and you want to build a house on what is left and then get approval of access from the Appeals Board then this is not an occasional sale. You have to have approval from the Board of Appeals for access. Mrs. Marcus said she would check with her husband and see if they actually hold title to all of the land now. On motion of Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was RESOLVED that the minutes of the Southold Town Planning Board meeting of October 3, 1972, be approved as corrected. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs: Wickham, Moisa, Grebe, Coyle, Raynor. The Board discussed the proposed change of zone on Mechanic Street, Southold, brought on the Town BOard's ®wn motion. On motion of Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board recommend~to the Southold Town Board.the change Of zone from "A".Residential and Agricultural District to "B-l, General Business District the following described property: Southold Town Planning Board - 12 - October 25, 1972 BEGINNING at a point on the westerly line of Mechanic Street where said line is intersected by the line between Zone A and Zone B-l; from said point of beginning running southerly along said westerly line of Mechanic Street, 620 feet, more or less, to land of Rimmler; thence westerly along said land of Rimmler 463 feet, more or less, to Wells Avenue; thence along said Wells Avenue, two courses: (1) Westerly 150 feet, more or less; thence (2) Northerly 471 feet, more or less, to said line between Zone A and Zone B-l; thence easterly along said line, 580 feet, more or less to the point of beginning. Containing 7 acres, more or less. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs: Coy!e, Raynor, Wickham, Grebe, Moisa. On motion of Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Moisa, it was RESOLVED that the next regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board will be held November 9, 1972, at~7:30 p.m. at the Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, N.Y. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs: Wickham, Moisa, Raynor, Coyle, Grebe. A letter will be sent to Supervisor Martocchia requesting a meeting at his office on November 2, 1972, at 7:30 p.m. with the Planning Board, the Town Board and the.Superintendent of Highways. The Planning Board received a letter from Albert W. Richmond, Town Clerk, in regard to Cleaves Point, Section 3. A letter will. be sent to the Town Board telling them we are waiting for a report on the roads from the Superintendent of Highways. Southold Town Planning Board - 13 - October 25, 1972 The Planning Board reviewed the proposed Town Budget for 1973. The meeting was adjourned at 11:00 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Terri Lee Elak, Secretary Southold Town Planning Board Wickham, Chairman